10/7/24 - The Tony & Mo Football Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:24):
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Speaker 2 (00:40):
All right, good afternoon on meegar. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
I'm at Twin Peaks and Florence. Tony Pike is here
having taken the iHeartMedia helicopter south from Kenwood. We are
here for the next three hours. If you haven't been
to Twin Peaks, you got to get here. An awesome place.
But before we start the to the Football Show will

(01:01):
have Zach Taylor's press conference. He is set to talk
in just a few seconds in fact, I'm looking at
him right now. He is at the podium. Let's go
to the head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals in the
aftermath of yesterday's loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Are broken for him.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
You know, We've we've moved him around, played him in
a lot of different spots. He's all he's ever done
is put his head down and worked and taking whatever
coaching and tried to make the most of every opportunity
and was showing a tremendous amount of growth at that
corner spot played Nickel Force yesterday. Just you know, you
just you hate it for him. I know he'll bounce

(01:38):
back from it, you know. I think his brother's been
through similar injuries before, and so I know he's got
a good support system. But just hate it for him
because of what he's shown on the field and just
the way he carries himself and when he'd got himut
of his business, and.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Awful for him what you see from him so far.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
To see your reporting tree, give you signe and da.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Outside absolutely absolutely really optimistic with him, you know, and
and you know, just just saw a really high ceiling
there with Dax and he was willing to reach it,
you know, with the work he could put in and
all things he could do, and so again just just
terrible for him. But but no, he's made the right
stuff and he'll rebound the right way.

Speaker 5 (02:19):
What did you think of.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
DJ Turner's game yesterday?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
And can talk about the development.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
That you see from Josh?

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, I think DJ is coming along as well. You know,
he's earned opportunity and you know, like all of our guys,
there's gonna be plays where where you can be better.
But DJ again has has attacked it the right way
and continues to improve. I think figs the same way.
You know, We've got a lot of belief in him.
He's a rookie, he's eager to do it, you know.

(02:48):
So again there's there's there's gonna be opportunities there that
continue to present selfish guys and we expect him to
answer the bell.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
What was your message to the team about kind of
just maybe.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
For over this that we're five games into the season
and so I know, I know what the noise is.
We're one and four, and so we're accountable for all that.
You know, it's not good enough. We have too much
talent on this team to be in the position we
found ourselves in right now. But all we can do
focusing forward is how do we beat the newer giants?
How do we have a great week, How do we
get back on the winning track. You know, you just

(03:21):
look around the AFC and there's plenty of opportunity there.
I'm moving forward, and we just need to take advantage
of it. We need to be the best version of ourselves,
which we have not been yet. You know, we've lost
on a walk off field goal now twice, and so
we have to do more to take advantage of those opportunities.
And I got to put it in a better position,
you know, really, you look at it, there's a lot
of talent on the team, and as the coach, you

(03:42):
gotta find ways to maximize that and make sure we're
working off with wins.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
And I haven't done a good enough job of that job.

Speaker 6 (03:48):
I said yesterday, and that something needs to change is
pretty honest saying you guys aren't a championship caliber a team.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Now, what are you planning on changing it?

Speaker 2 (03:57):
So?

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, we're one in four, you know, and it's it
hasn't been good enough in any area and we have
to finish games, you know, it's it's wholesale changes. I'm
sure that's what people want. We've lost one score games
on the last play of the game, and there's a
lot of areas we can improve in all three phases
to finish those games off. So again, we'll continue to
monitor everything and make the decisions we think our best

(04:19):
to put us going forward, more honest with ourselves, more
accountable for everything, and just got to find a way
to win. And I feel like this team is still
going in the right direction. It's still plenty of opportunity
in front of us, and we just got to refocus
this week and find a way to get a win.
Why the defense maybe hasn't been as productive as you
might have yesterday is a tough one because there was

(04:41):
a lot of really good stuff and then there was
some stuff that wasn't nearly good enough, and part of
it you can attribute to their quarterback extending someplace. And
so sometimes things were really really good and versus most
teams and most quarterbacks, it would be good enough to
end the play, and he found ways to find two
touchdowns in particular on plays that normally would be over.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
And so again that's we know what we sign up for.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
When you play that offense, and and the length of
the plays and how you got to finish plays, and
so a lot of times it comes down to finishing.
A lot of times it just means playing without hesitation.
You know, in some moments where maybe there's just a
half second of hesitation in a game like that, you
can't have any and so close enough isn't good enough.
You know, we've got to be able to finish those
places when we get them.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
As you went back through.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
The last round, you guys had no overtime. Where you
find with.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
The run call, you know, it's I'm very reflective on
things I can i can improve on. At the end
of the day, the decision for me is we're in
we're in comfortable enough field goal range for Evan, and
I don't want to do anything to disrupt that. And
and again I'm accountable. I know that there's probably a
lot of different opinions on how that could go. But
at the end of the day, that's that's where it

(05:49):
sits with me, is you don't want to take any
sort of negative play. Sometimes it can be a penalty,
sometimes it can be something getting disruptive on the play.
And when I trust our kicker in that position to
finish the game for us, like he has countless times.
And I'm not putting the way that that kick went
on him by any means, but again, in every situation
is a little bit different. We've been in those situations before.

(06:10):
We've been aggressive and throwing the ball and try to
close our games that way, and yesterday I felt that's
where it went. But again, always always think about it
a million times, what would I have done differently?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
And I'm comfortable for it and countered that, Zach in
your own mind, the fact that Joe Burro is your
best player and you walk the ball in his hands.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Yeah, and there's some things he can't control that can
come up in those situations as well, you know. And
we were in four minute last week. We got a
penalty that's knocks Bect ten yards and so again sometimes
you're just at the end of the day, I know
we can make that kick and we're going to try
to get as many yards as we can moving forward
in the run game, and it just it didn't work
in our favor.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
You said it a few.

Speaker 6 (06:52):
Times today so far it's not good enough. But when
you look at defense and I know you spend most
of your time with the offense strength in.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
The game playing how can you help the defense play better?

Speaker 4 (07:04):
Just I give my opinions from an offense perspective. I
meet with these players as much as I can, you know,
each one of them, to give my opinion on on
from that side of the ball and from the head
coaching's perspective, and I just with the defense, any question
they have for me, anything I can I can help
them with, I do that. You know that when you
have majored your whole life in one side of the ball,

(07:26):
you don't go out there and say I want all
this differently. That's just not the way it works. And
but I'm in there with those coaches, I meet with
those players. I make sure we're doing everything we can
to get better in all three phases, and defense is
a big part of that.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I don't evaluate the safety plays so far. You would
love to valuate the.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
Safety play I don't think. I think it's better just
to talk wholesale in that. I don't think there's been
an area so far we're good enough in. And so
everything has to improve. Everything plays off of each other,
you know. So again, there's there's things that can happen
all round it to make that play better. And I
think at the end of the day, were just the
whole the whole side of each ball has got to

(08:06):
be accountable for everything that happens.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
How are you balancing?

Speaker 2 (08:09):
I know, I asked the guys would have a balance
and playing bongers, playing George who got in for a badding.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Yeah, we're trying to do everything we can to win
the game. And and there's nothing off the table with
any human in this building to to try to do that.
And so again it's always just making sure we're doing
everything for the right reasons. Any any adjustment we make,
any call we make, is this for the right reasons,
And and that's that's always what we weigh.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
What do we hear when we talk about you would
go back to you, but all the time seven take
get play to nump back and well.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Back yeah, win more team maybe voice Europeans on how
maybe they would How do you kind of take that
as a coach and process that.

Speaker 4 (08:44):
It's fine, you know, it's it's after the game. It's emotional,
and those guys made every single play that came to them,
and so they want the opportunity to finish the game off,
and so I don't That doesn't bother me for one second.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
I know what those guys are made of.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
Those guys want to win, they're upset we didn't win,
and and they're accountable for anything they can do. Differently,
they did a lot of great things.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yesterday.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
I heard Jamar say he's got to run a better
route on this, like it's just an unbelievable thing for
him to say and be accountable in that moment after
all the things he just did. Tease the same way,
I mean, te fights through so much stuff to come
out there and produce like he does. And so that
that doesn't bother me at all. I have to make
decisions that you know, it'll take full full blame for

(09:26):
when they don't go away and we lose the game.
That's that's part of my job. That's part of this profession.
That's what I love about it, to be honest with you.
And but again, I I like that those guys play
with emotion. They want to make the plays to win
the game, and when they don't get up opportunity, they're
frustrated by it.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
And I'm fine with that.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Put me there, Huh, you know it's again it's it's
a turnover, and so we got to find ways to
be better. Yeah, yeah, you're trying to give me. Yeah,
I'm good.

Speaker 6 (10:00):
How do you balance the fine line between you as
the head coach with Ryan and what happened with the
the miskick and the act of letting Darren ad dress
it because obviously that was his expertise and knowing obviously
he didn't want that to happen, but accountability, like, how
do you balance that situation?

Speaker 4 (10:19):
I mean, we all know that the operation's got to
be cleaner. That's like telling a quarterback he miss is
a throw by half a foot?

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, I know, you know.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
And so again there are areas where we always worked
improve That's why we practice it to say that I
need to address somebody after a situation like that. We
all know what happened, and so those guys are as
sick as anybody, and I got full faith in them.
That's that's why we put them out there to make
that kick and to operate it. And you know, so
again a lot of belief in those guys doing a

(10:48):
lot of great things for us, and obviously yesterday was
below our standard. When it happens on the final kick
of the game, but still have faith that the next
time we'll be better at it.

Speaker 5 (10:56):
It's being accountable for kind of how things have gone
so or where is.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Thereserent ways that manifests itself into how to prepare all
those basis.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, you know, we look at our operation every week.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
I'm not set in stone that this is I think
I've sat in here during stretches like this before and said,
we're not married to exactly how we do things. We're
always flexible with how we practice, the different reps we take,
how we watch film together. Those are always things that
we've adjusted as needed. And you know, we just got
to find ways to win the games. And so everything's
on the table. I'm not going to give exact answers

(11:29):
on what it's all going to look like, but you
got to be able to trust that we spend every
second of every day trying to find a way to
get our win because we're disappointed.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Everyone's disappointed.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
There's more out there that we should have taken at
this point, and and I'm accountable that that I haven't
gotten that done.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
You know, sense that in any way, shape or form,
preparation lack of preparation has.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Factored into being one of I really don't. I really don't.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
We you know, we go back through practice tape after games,
you know, to see similar situations and to see what
we can do better, to prepare our guys, to see
where technique can improve. And so again we go through
through it thoroughly, trying to make sure we're not missing anything.

Speaker 7 (12:09):
You feel about the effectiveness of your six offensive line
with the packages.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Six offensive line, the affect in this do you feel
like you're getting.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Well, most of the STAPs are probably in four minute
and so you're always going to face zero and so
the yards, if that's what you're referencing, it's always going
to be low because it's usually goal line short yardage
or four minutes, and so from an efficiency standpoint, you're
not looking at five six yard chunks. You're looking at
Sometimes one and a half yards is efficient for us.

(12:40):
So I don't know if I'm fully answering that question,
but I just know a lot of the times we
use it is in those situations where efficiency is a
little bit weighted.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
There I don't necessarily need statistically, but even in trying
to get like a third and one or whatever with
six offensive line, do you feel like you're getting what
you need in those situations.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I don't think the extra offense lineman has hurt us
in any way, shape or form. I think you know,
we had two third ones yesterday that we didn't get
and neither one of them were on the primeter.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, the last drive of a half, you know, amazing
when you.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Think about and get the ball, you know, thirty three
seconds yep, he goes down. What was the key to
at event.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Being efficient on being efficient on the first play and
then just getting enough chunks after that, you know, nine yards,
eleven yards? What was the one to Jamar before the
big one? Eighteen? You know, So that's what you're looking for.
It doesn't have to be thirty at the gate. It's
just got to be enough to put you in position
and then hey, let's take one more shot here. And

(13:45):
obviously it paid off for us, and if it hadn't,
we probably would have taken one more little denker to
try to get us a better field goal range. But
felt like there might be an opportunity for a shot there.
We took it was it was unbelievable throwing catch, good
protection and so that where it's at. But that's kind
of what leads to the end of the game. On
why we play that third and seventeen like you do,

(14:07):
because I've seen them have ten seconds left against Jacksonville
a couple of years ago and give him an opportunity
for sixty eight yarder that he hit off the front
up right in ten seconds, you know. So I took
that into consideration, all those kicks against Detroit against Jacksonville
that he's attempted at the end of the game, and
what you didn't want to do was to throw the ball,
stop the clock, give them the ball back with thirty

(14:29):
five seconds left, with an opportunity to go go win
it with a field will there.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's the amazing thing.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
At the end of the half. Figure that's the last
one they will win. Beat him.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
It's hard. I mean, he went across the field, so
they they're doing what they can. I mean, it's you
don't always have the opportunity to have the time to
allow that to develop. And so it was good protection
up front. It was a good job by Joe buying
the time to allow Jamar. I mean, Jamar had to
get vertical over and Nickel had to lean a safety,
had to get across the field forty two yards on
the goal line. I mean, it's it's not one that

(15:00):
happens quick. And so it's really good execution about eleven
of our guys, A good great job by Andre affecting
two guys on a special route across the field.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
That's his job. He did his job. And and uh,
Joe and Jamar did the rest.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
German games this year where you guys needed one more
drive ended game stuff and the offense has spirted out.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Are those specific ors, that specific area of the game.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
You've looked at a lot in the last year or two.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
You know what's going we have to close at these games,
you know. And and I can think of, yeah, you're
right in saying that, and so again that's sometimes you
you do a lot of really good things leading up
to that moment, and you know, you just you play
it one drave out of time and what did you
do on your file drive? What'd you do on your
file two drives? And and unfortunately it just, uh, we

(15:46):
haven't done enough there.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Why commonality or thing different provincial from maybe clos are
not some of these games, or something an aspect that
maybe he is lacking.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
That's not now allowed. Everyone.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Everyone's a little bit different, you know. And and again
you always feel like you're in a really good spot
and and then all of a sudden, something just goes
a little bit sideways. And the interception, I guess is
the one will point to. And you can have a
lot of opinions on that, and ultimately they get it,
they get the play, they make a great play, and
and uh, you know that was that was our opportunity

(16:18):
we had.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
How do you think a game?

Speaker 4 (16:22):
I think he really sore, sore, but but long term
wise will be fine, but just sore and you'd probably
have to manage it this week.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
The Tony, if people go whatever is that.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
I'm pretty confident he'll be able to go. Jackson Kirkland
towards bicep, you just got me on that. So he'll
be out for the year.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
So we'll make some we'll make some adjustments going forward.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
Fourth quarter, I believe, I believe. I'm trying to remember
when we had the conversation. I think it was the
fourth quarter A special teams player that he he can
you know, I don't I just remember hearing it during
a drive, So I don't know if that was information
that was coming from the previous special team's play or
I haven't. I haven't gone back there and pinpointed when

(17:12):
that happened. Yet, we've we've been a meetings this morning.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
But feel about selling him potentially last week.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
I think that's trending in a positive direction. I'm careful.
We'll see him practice, you know, and let him practice
before we make that final declaration, have a.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
Full defense evaluation.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Knowing that the eight piece that you had this year
hasn't really been.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
How difficult does that make the evaluation for you?

Speaker 4 (17:35):
No, I mean we just that's that's the NFL. Every
team goes through injuries and adversity, and we can't make
excuse for who's on the field. Not because we're playing
other teams and you look at their rosters and they
go through very similar situations. So it'll certainly be great
to have him out there. That's he's a big piece
of what we do. He brings a lot to the table.
That'll bring a lot of energy when he does come back,

(17:56):
knowing that we got him back in the mix. But again,
to make excuse for that's why we've we've given up
some things.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
We're growing up. I'm not gonna do that.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Okay, thanks you any Dak Taylor, talking with the members
of the professional football media the day after his team
blows a game against the Baltimore Ravens and lose in
overtime forty one to thirty eight. Confirming some bad injury news,
tour acl for Dax Hill adds that Amarius Mems is
pretty sore with that ankle that temporarily came meant that

(18:28):
he had to come out of the game yesterday. He
is going to be monitored as the week unfolds. And
unfortunately Jackson Kirkland with a tour bicep. That injury happened
in the fourth quarter. His season is over. Eighteen minutes
after three o'clock. We're a Twin Peaks in Florence. Tony
and Mo Football show starts after this on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station ESPN fifteen thirty. We're a Twin Peaks

(18:48):
in Florence. If you're out and about, it is a
gorgeous afternoon in Northern Kentucky. Gorgeous afternoon, author racked Greater Cincinnati.
Come on out and hang out with us. The beer
is cold, the food is good, the staff is awesome,
and let's face a misery loves company. Yeah, if you're
a Bengals fan, you're probably pretty miserable today. In spite

(19:09):
of the beautiful weather.

Speaker 5 (19:10):
It's not been a good day, not been a good
night for whatever reason. And I guess it's years and
years of this same feeling. But I joked with you
a couple of weeks ago, you know, UC basketball season
and how upset I get after losses, and it just
sticks with me. And it never was like this with

(19:31):
the Bengals. And I don't know if it's the Super
Bowl aspirations, the super Bowl window and everything we talked
about during the offseason, or legitimately feeling like this team
was close. I'm disappointed. I feel like I'm more angry
than anything else. Yeah, And in a game where Joe
Burrow said he had to be near perfect than he

(19:52):
was near perfect. He had a couple of mistakes, but
they scored thirty eight points and he threw five touchdowns
and they lost, and they lost without losing with Joe
Burrow being the guy to give you that opportunity and
that there's just there's so many different ways to diagnose
this game, but so many really good things are going
to be lost. Forever because of the outcome of the game.

(20:15):
But I'm angry that they're one and four. I'm angry
that they've lost three games at home, all winnable games
that you thought going into the season. And I'm angry
that it felt like, with an off season of optimism
that the only question mark was Joe Burrow's wrist, and
here he is performing better than he ever has with
weapons that are doing what we expected them to do,

(20:37):
and it's all for nothing.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know. So many of the themes that we talked
about in the days leading up to the game kind
of came to fruition yesterday, and not in a good way.
Joe saying I've got to be damn near perfect. Well
he was, yep, But we said it yesterday in the
pregame show, he probably has to be better than that,
and unfortunately he wasn't perfect. He was awesome, and give

(21:00):
me every bit of what I saw from Joe Burrow yesterday,
but that game demanded he be perfect. That is an
impossible burden to ask a quarterback to live up to.
We talked about the defense being too much of a
mess to rely on and what's gonna happen if Baltimore throws. Well,
we saw it yesterday. It was you know, this game

(21:21):
takes on added importance because of the slow start to
the season. I put this on social media after the game.
That is a loss in October that is tougher to
take because of how you handled September. You treated it
like August. But then there's a new theme, and it's
the lack of aggressiveness. Austin asked me before you got here,
did Zach Taylor coach scared? And I think he did,

(21:44):
But he also coached stupid. He coached dumb, whether it's
scared or whether it's dumb. And the frustrating thing for
me is we just heard his press conference there, and
I understand how these men are wired. Very rarely are
they gonna show up the next time and say, yeah,
I would do it this way if I could do
it all over again. They're just they're stubborn people. The

(22:05):
scary thing, though, is he looks at how he handled
yesterday and he's cool with it, doubled down, which tells
me next time he's gonna do the exact same thing. Yeah,
you can't go back in time and redo what happened yesterday.
What you can do is learn from what happened to go.
You know what, next time I'm using my meal ticket,
my meal ticket is Joe Burrow instead. He doubled down
on it, which tells me, in the exact same set

(22:28):
of circumstances next time, he's gonna do the exact same thing.
That's frustrating to me.

Speaker 5 (22:33):
I guess at the end of the day, I'm just
asking for accountability from the head coach because I got
accountability yesterday from Jamar Chase.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
That's on me.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
I ran a bad route. Evan McPherson. Yep, the snap
was dropped. He said, that's on me. Joe Burrow said
that the loss is on him. There was accountability from
the players and the coach after the game essentially said
I wouldn't have done anything different. And then he had
twenty four hours to think about it, and he said,
I'm good with how it went down. Good with taking
the ball out of my franchise's hands and relying on

(23:04):
a fifty three yard field go on a day that
the win was a factor and and not give my
franchise the opportunity to go win the game. And he
actually kind of knowing that, he kind of pended it, well,
we caught a pass, yeah, Joe, Joe checked out of it.
Joe did that well, like it the the the accountability
and then to almost be like, we're not dumb. And

(23:29):
I listened to Zach Taylor to the game say well,
you know, our our our our defense. I believe in them.
I've seen enough from the defensive side of the ball.
What this season has has pushed you to the point
to say that you believe in the defense instead of saying,
you know what, yeah, offense, there's some plays out there.
I could have done a better job. But we also
have to be better defensively. We can't give up forty one.

(23:50):
We can't miss tackles. Where is there just any level
of accountability in this franchise that starts with the top
the head coach? Because I saw more accountability yesterday from
a locker room of players than I did with the
head coach. And that's a problem.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
All Right, We'll get a break in here because I
want to be on time, but I want you to
dive into the nuts and bolts of that offensive sequence
in overtime where Zach said it was a pass he
and both he and Joe have both acknowledged he checked
into a run because what I saw in real time

(24:26):
and what you have outlined for folks on social media
does not suggest it makes any sense to call a
run play. So there was a lot to yesterday's game,
and there was the defensive issues, and there was Lamar
Jackson doing magical stuff, and there's the special team's mistake,
and there's all the injuries, and there's the fallout from it,

(24:48):
and there's what's next. But I think a year from now,
when I mentioned that Sunday afternoon home game against Baltimore
in twenty twenty four, what everybody's going to default to
is when the best got the ball via a gift
in overtime and what they chose to do leading up
to the failed field goal. Tribe. We'll do that when
week come back. He's Tony Pike onm Moeger twenty nine

(25:09):
after three o'clock Tony and moll Football Show Twin Peaks
in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Perlay
home of lifetime powertraining, protection and guaranteed credit approval from
their family to yours for Live Kelsey chev dot Com.
Bengals installed as three and a half point favorites on
Sunday Night Football in Jersey against the Giants eight twenty

(25:31):
The kick Live on ESPN fifteen thirty. Unfortunately, Dax Hills
twenty twenty four season is over with a torn acl
and same for Jackson Kirkland. His season over as well
with a torn bicep. More Tonight, Bengals line six to
nine on seven hundred WLW Monday Night Football Tonight, Saints
and Chiefs on ESPN fifteen thirty. The Reds made it

(25:53):
official today. They made it official on Friday. Today, they
formally introduced future Hall of Fame manager Terry Francona as
the club skipper for the twenty twenty five season, replacing
David Bell. Baseball playoffs continue the American League Division Series.
Detroit and Cleveland Guardians lead won nothing.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Oh that's on now?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think that starts at four o'clock. Okay, can we
get that on Perfect Watch some daytime? Postseason Baseball and
Royals and the Yankees The Nightcap tonight. College football Texas,
Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, Georgia one through five, ap
Top twenty five Pole, Indiana up to eighteenth, Mark Stube
Show Tonight at six on ESPN fifteen thirty Tony and
Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in Florence. We are

(26:34):
here until the Mark Stube Show at six o'clock.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
All Right, who would have thought that the Reds would
be saving the Bengals?

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Five?

Speaker 2 (26:41):
That the surge of optimism and enthusiasm is awesome. I
just hope manager isn't the biggest offseason acquisition. Maybe spend
some time on that a little bit later on. All right,
you've broken this down on video. Bengals get a gift
in overtime first and ten. They're in field goal range,

(27:04):
but it's a long field goal. Zach Taylor says, Joe
checked into a run. The original play was a pass.
Here's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing everybody on Baltimore's defense
bunched into the box. Nine guys. Yeah, I'm seeing no
wide receivers. Why Jamar was on the field but bunch
close to the formation. How is that a pass?

Speaker 3 (27:25):
It It couldn't have been.

Speaker 5 (27:27):
Now, maybe he got first down and second down mixed up,
because you could argue maybe there was an adjustment on
second down. Jamar was wide on the second down, that
was heavier personnel. Yeah, maybe I'll give you that, but
I just don't buy it on first down. Now, in
order to talk about the last series, I think it's
important to preface the previous two because remember, with three

(27:48):
three h five left, Bengals have the ball in Baltimore
territory in field goal range thirty three yard line. I
think Baltimore just used their first time out and the
Bengals come out and what not. I formation, they came
out spread with the ability to throw the ball. Now,
they ran the ball with Zach Mawson, then they threw
it and then it was a very crucial Orlando Brown
junior false start that puts them behind the sticks and

(28:10):
then the interception. But the idea there was spread it
out and let's go get a touchdown. Let's not leave
this the chance the end of regulation happens. Joe Burrow
took a sack first down, didn't really have a chance
second seventeen. It was then we don't believe in Joe
Burrow in this offense. We're just gonna get out of
here and punt the ball away and get the overtime.

(28:33):
I still think that there are opportunities with three timeouts
to still go win the game in regulation. In a
tie score with a minute and a half left in
three timeouts, but the ND takes you to overtime. They
didn't show trust in Burrow at the end of regulation
and on the first down in overtime. It's a gift
that it feels like as a Cincinnati fan, we never

(28:53):
get the fumble that always happens to us, not for us.
And I'm screaming at the TV because not only was
it nine in the box Yosi vash was in not
t Higgins to the boundary and he was he was
really tight. He was tight which allowed the tenth defender.
So you can clearly see there's no safety over the top.
And out there on an island about seven yards off

(29:14):
of Jamar Chase is a rookie corner. It's like, okay,
surely there's some type of check here that you could
just throw a swing route and Jamar Chase is one
of his best qualities is the ball in his hand. Yeah,
you could get him the ball with four or five
yards of separation, at worst five yards. I would bet
a substantial amount of money he makes that guy miss,

(29:35):
and if he does, that's a touchdown and the game
is over. Instead, you line up bunched ten guys essentially
in the box. You run it up the middle. Okay,
second down, show me something different.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
And by the way, after the game, Zach said that
play game yardage.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
Yeah it didn't.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
It didn't.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
Second and ten, second ten, you get three. But you
run the same play third down, you do the same thing.
It sets up a field goal. It had been windy
justin Tucker's game time. Field goal started outside the goal post.
That's how much the win played a factor. And he
had to play that in And I get that. You know,
you have confidence in Evan McPherson. I want confidence in

(30:13):
Joe Burrow. I want confidence in Jamar Chase. I want
confidence in t Higgins. I want I want confidence in
a quarterback that had done five touchdowns on the day
and you know, over three hundred passing yards and wasn't
you know nine of thirty Yeah he was, you know,
thirty of thirty nine. I mean that the announcers all
day made comments about it doesn't matter what Baltimore's doing,

(30:33):
Joe Burrow is seeing it and dicing him up. And
at the end, Zach Taylor's reasoning, according to Joe Danam's tweet,
was what well we didn't want to take a sack
or a hold. So right there, that tells me your
mentality is on the cowardly side. You're thinking of the
negative instead of if we go get a first down,
this is a chip shop and we're good to go.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's how you coach. If you have a bad rookie quarterback,
that's how you coach. If you have a bad veteran quarterback,
that's how you coach. If you have a guy who's
shaky with your offense, that's how you coach. If you
don't have elite talent on the outside, I just I
use the term meal ticket before. If I'm gonna go down,
I'm going down with my meal.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Ticket, I ticket.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
Why can't you just spread him out?

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I don't get it.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
Why why are you just throwing in the flag of
It tells me that you don't have confidence in nine.
And if we think that, what does Joe Burrow think? Yeah, Like,
if we think that Zach Taylor handled or mishandled the
press conference apter the game yesterday, what do the players
think who were in there saying, Hey, that's on me,
that's that's on what we're doing. And not only that,

(31:38):
what about creativity. If you're gonna run the ball three times,
can you switch up maybe outside, maybe inside? Hell, at
this point, if you know they're nine in the box
and in man de man, can I get a Jamar
Chase jet sweet where I hand it to him and
if he gets to the edge, he's gonna outrun his
guy Instead, it's here it comes. We're gonna turn around
and hand this ball off three straight times. In the

(31:59):
same type of play power football. You gain three yards,
you do nothing, nothing to instill any confidence or give
a vote of confidence to your offense. That again, you
check the notes had put up thirty eight points already
on the day.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
It's what you do if you're at like the fifteen
yard line.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (32:16):
Right, that's how they handle it.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
You're just playing the hash mark.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
It looks like it makes more sense for them to
have done that with three minutes left up three yeah,
to run it three times and set up a field goal,
than it does of how they handled overtime.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
I it's it's coaching malpractice to the highest degree. Jamar
Chase said after the game. I wish I would have
had a chance. T Higgins after the game said, I
wish I would have had a chance. Joe Burrow, as
you might expect, handled it very diplomatically.

Speaker 5 (32:44):
I just to me, there's also I got NFL plus. Yeah,
I've watched the end zone, I've watched the sideline. I've
watched the all twenty two of the first down play
and I know it doesn't show the full thing, but
I see no communication at the line that's changing the play, right, so,
and I see no communication by the formation m M
that would change the play. And if it is that

(33:06):
where you were going to run the ball, why don't
you kick the ball on third down? In case something
happened that you asked?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
You answered my next question.

Speaker 5 (33:13):
So everything like one thing's not in and up to
the next it feels like you're just scrambling instead of
saying that's on me, the.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Personnel, the formation. And you mentioned something that's important. Because
I heard the explanation on my way home from the game,
I go and find it on DVR because I tape
all the games and I'm looking for what I might
have missed. Where did I miss Joe changing the play
audibly changing the play, visibly changing the play head. It

(33:42):
never happens, No, it never happens. So I'm calling bs
on Zach Taylor's explanation, but again, like moving forward, he
doubles down on it, which tells me the next time
you're in a situation where you could put the game
and maybe the season in the hands of your meal ticket,
you're gonna do exactly what you did yesterday and maybe

(34:03):
it'll work out. Yeah, maybe maybe the kick is successful
and everybody's happy. I just in real time, if I'm
going down. It's like a baseball manager who's got his
best pin hitter on the bench and doesn't use him
in a crucial situation.

Speaker 5 (34:17):
Austin said today, Zach Taylor, at the end of the
game trusted a coin flip more than his offense at
the time. Yes, and I know that the defense has
a hand in that, sure, but I mean, you're one
in three, you're gonna leave it the chance, or you're
you gonna say, hey, nine, go win the game. And
it's not like, you know, the Borough game against Pittsburgh

(34:38):
with all the d like if he played like that, yeah,
all right, let's just get out of here. If it
was Burrow against the New England, we correct, this was
Burrow as the MVP. I'm an MVP of the National
Football League.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yes, this is Joe Burrow that.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
At the time the game ended yesterday first in touchdown
passes first and passer rating second, completion percentage thirteen yards
tied for first, and forty yard passes in all of
the National Football League. Pro Football Focus has him as
the second best passing offense in the NFL. That Joe
Burrow had the ball on the thirty eight and you
didn't let him do anything with it.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
With Jamar Chase and t Higgins having combined for nineteen
catches for two hundred and seventy six yards and four touchdowns,
and you chose to not give the ball to either
one of those two guys, YEP, it is malpractice.

Speaker 5 (35:21):
It is amazing and nineteen catches on twenty six targets.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
As a fan, like we talk about the word trust
all the time. I think Zach Taylor's done a lot
of really good things. I think he's a great head coach. No,
but boy kind of lost me there.

Speaker 5 (35:39):
And you also now have the ability on this team
that in a situation like that, if you wanted to
get creative, use Jamar as a decoy and leak Eric
call out or leake Mike Kiseki or any of these
tight ends, or use Chase Brown. I mean, how many
teams do we or how many times do we see
teams with a running back like that out of the
backfield that fakes the power and the running back just

(35:59):
goes right to the flat. Yeah, and you get leveraged
that way.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
Or again, give me a creative run, give me an outside,
give me something out of the gun, like, change something up.
They ran the same essential play three times. Cody Ford
came in as the extra blocker. They turned around and
ran it like they were content right where they were at.
And for the life of me, because normally, like you
sleep on it, you feel I cannot figure out any

(36:23):
other alternative as to why that was played yes day.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Well, and on first down, let's say you get sacked. Okay,
you've got two plays to at least get that yardage back,
and then if we've got to kick a fifty three
yard field goal, we kick a fifty three yard field goal,
like the whole thing. Well, you can you're right, you
can't take a sack there. But on first down, let's
say there is a sack.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
But I also trust him to not take us at well, I'm.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Gonna trust him, first of all, to not throw a pick,
and I know he just threw it. That's gonna make
me double down on trusting him to not throw a pick,
because he's gonna be a little bit yep, more careful.
Number two, I trust him than not take a sack
in that situation if he does. And now it's second
and seventeen, Okay, I don't need all seventeen. Let me
get eight, let me get nine, right, and then I

(37:07):
would rather have not taken the sack. But you can
play your way out of that. That's my thing about. Well,
we didn't want to get knocked out of field goal range. Well,
if you do get knocked out a field goal range
on first down, you still are allowed to re enter
field goal range. And you didn't trust Joe Burrow to
do that. You didn't trust your offense to make up
for a mistake on first down nothing. Instead, you just seated. Instead,

(37:28):
you just sat there. You coach scared, and you gave
the Baltimore Ravens life. It's inexcusable.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
You confessed that your concern in that situation was a
sack or a hold. So right away, that's I don't
trust Burrow or I don't trust the old line instead
of I'm just gonna put the ball in my guy's
hands and go win the game. Because every like I said,
nothing about them adds up. They had a three possession
stretch in the first half where they were either down

(37:55):
or tied and Chase Brown looked like Walter Payton hit
the whole and the very next series they threw it
three straight times. So in the time of the running
games working, you go away from it. In the time
you need to throw, you go back to the running game.
At the end of the day, they ran it for
three yards to carry yesterday, and that's what you trust that.

(38:16):
It's different if it's the other team. Let's say Baltimore
recovers on the thirty eight, I could say, okay, run
the ball three times, because that's either Lamar or Derek
Henry with a team that dominates the NFL in rushing
that I understand. The way the Bengals had run the
ball or not been able to run the ball, especially
in the second half and the game Joe Burrow was

(38:37):
having it is one of the most maddening decisions that
I can remember as a Bengal fan.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
What did we say in the pregame show yesterday, this
is going to be a hard Ravens team to run against.
They came into the game having allowed the fewest number
of yards per carry in the NFL. What can you
do against this Ravens defense. Well, there are some issues
in the secondary, and the game played out that way.
Not to take anything away from how Joe played, but
if you much Baltimore yesterday, you thought, you know what,
secondary a little shaky, But up front, yeah, they're good

(39:04):
against the run, and they were yesterday. Like, there are
so many different ways at looking, and to me, I
focus on first down because what you do on first
down can then dictate what you do next. Maybe it's
an incomplete pass, Okay, I'm still in fueld goal range
and I've got two more snaps. Maybe it is a sack. Okay,
I've got two plays to get back in the field
goal range and make up the yardage. Maybe I throw

(39:26):
a seven yard pass. Jamar Chase gets tackled. I'm in
closer field goal range. Then I have two more plays
to get the first down and keep the football and
get even closer.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
And let's say on that, let's say the worst happens.
Let's say you get seven yards, and then let's say
you get a first down, and let's say, for whatever reason,
you miss a kick. Now there's two and a half
minutes left. Yeah, and at worse you're like, all right,
well they're gonna have to drive a field in two
and a half minutes, which we'll talk about how they
did that in the second half all day long anyway,
But on so many different levels it makes sense. And

(39:57):
instead not a only do you take the ball out
of Joe's hands, but you come back today and you
said I wouldn't change anything if I'm Joe Burrow. How
do you how do you feel listening to that? Like
how I talked about the culture all week because I
was on a team that had a very good offense

(40:18):
and a very bad defense, And I'm thinking to myself, like,
I worry. I worry about that dynamic. And it's easy
to have a good culture when you're winning at one
in three. The culture was tough at one and four.
You even heard Burrow up to the game yesterday is like,
you know, I thought the offense, we did a lot
of good things. We're gonna have to figure out what
else we can do, but we played well enough to
win Jamar Chase. You know, thirty eight points, about thirty

(40:39):
is our goal. We did that. We need to win
this game. There's already that. And if your head coach
is pointing the finger at other people, how are you
gonna galvanize the team here? That's my concern because now
New York's not a layup by any means what we thought.
They've had their troubles with Cleveland, and I know Cleveland's
a whole different talking point, but here we are. Well,

(41:00):
if they can win the next couple, get close to
five hundred.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
But the thing is about the next four games. They're
projected to be favorites in their next four, but there
must win games. You're putting yourself in a position now
in October, in week six where you don't have you
can't go in the road and lay a clunker. And
you know what, it was just a bad night and
New York took advantage where you know what, Cleveland's not
very good.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
But we played poorly like I've seen them as favorites.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
To Yes, you have killed your margin for error entirely.
We gotta get to a break night away from four
o'clock where at Twin Peaks in Florence. Misery Loves Company.
It's the Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 7 (41:42):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center, Mammograms Save Lives
called five to one, three, five eight four, pink to
schedule your annual.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
This is the Tony and Football Show, Live from the
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(42:13):
Exit fifty inside the Holiday and at the Roberts Center,
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Chevrolet Together, Let's drive on the official home of the
Bengo Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
We are at Twin Peaks in Florence for the Tony
and moll Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegor with
Tony Pike here till six o'clock. It's a fun sports
night with a good Monday night football game, a pair
of baseball playoff games, and you can watch all that
action and so much more here on any one of
the twenty four thousand televisions Here at Twin Peaks, which

(42:53):
is very easy to get to, by the way. Chances
are if you have spent any time in northern Kentucky,
you know where we are, but very close to the
Turfway Road exit and you could be here in minutes.
Have a nice cold beer. Beer selection is awesome, Bourbon
selection is good. Food is terrific. What'd you get today?
Did you eat ball?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Skill?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
It? Eat ball skillet?

Speaker 5 (43:12):
Went away from it last week? Yeah, but then you
ordered it last week? I did, and then I missed it,
so I came back.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
To it till I'm I haven't eaten yet, but what
I do, I'll stick with the tried and true meatball skillet,
that or whatever else you want on the Twin Peaks menu.
Come on out and hang out with us. We are
here until six o'clock. We'll be at the Twin Peaks
in Florence. Right back here a week from today before
moving back to Westchester after the Bengals play the Cleveland Browns.

(43:40):
Before then, we have a game yesterday to talk about.
Bengals lose to the Baltimore Ravens and maddening fashiont forty
one to thirty eight at three different stages in the
second half yesterday, Tony, the Bengals had a ten point lead.
They're up twenty four to fourteen, eight fifty one to
go in the third. They're up thirty one to twenty
one fourteen night team to go in the fourth. They're

(44:02):
up thirty eight eight forty four to go in the fourth,
and they can't hang on. This team cannot close.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
We talked about before the top of the hour overtime.
Let's talk about a few of the other things that
the Bengals did offensively yesterday that didn't go their way.
They're up thirty eight thirty five. Late in the fourth quarter,
they get the ball to the Baltimore thirty three, and
then Joe Burrow got picked off. Now, Jamar Chase says
he ran a bad route. He cannot used the word bad.

(44:31):
You've watched it. What happened.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
I think a lot of it is advanced scouting from
Baltimore Ravens, because I don't mind the play call at all,
but the way they came out of the huddle, they
had three receivers to the boundary and Jamar Chase to
the field, and very clearly it was manna man one
high safety corner's eyes were all inside looking, you know,
in or inside leverage on their receiver. And then Yoshi

(44:57):
Vash goes in motion. Now I would have rather snapped
the ball and thrown a slant to Jamar Chase, giving
him the whole field to work with. Now they run
the motion, and the word was and if you look
at how the ball was played, the word was. As
that motion was coming, the whole Raven sideline was yelling

(45:18):
out slant because it's a look that the Bengals have
given before. So they have manna man Yoshi goes in
motion and they try to create a rub where Yoshi's
a on an arrow route and Jamar Chase runs the
slant and ideally Humphrey has to go over the rub route,
freeing up Jamar Chase. Well, the problem is, and I
broke this down on my social media as well. As

(45:41):
soon as the ball is snapped. You could tell Humphrey
knows what's coming because he jumps inside and attaches to
Jamar Chase. There's no way unless you know what's coming
you do that because by jumping inside, if Jamar Chase
ran a go, he's opened by twenty yards, right, you
just would That's the only way you stop that slant.
He jumps inside, attaches himself to the hip, and in

(46:04):
doing so, it actually frees Yoshi Vash. But I just
think Joe Burrow predetermined where he was going to go.
I think he saw they were going to get the rub.
He predetermined it was going to go to Chase, so
he didn't really look at Yoshi, who was open. And
Humphrey makes a good play. But Humphrey knew the route.
That's the only way you can defend that. He knew
the route and he jumped it. So I think that's
I think that's more either bad self scouting on the

(46:27):
Bengals or good scouting.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
On the Rains.

Speaker 5 (46:29):
No, you don't buy it, No, not at all. There's
no way he could have ran a slant against that coverage.
What I think Jamar did was as soon as Humphrey
jumped inside like that, probably assumed this ball is not
coming to me. So could he have pushed harder. Maybe,
but he's running a slant and the guy jumped the
route two yards before he did. So give the Ravens credit.

(46:53):
Maybe it's on the Bengals for not switching it up enough,
but they clearly knew that was coming.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
We focused on this often last week, Joe saying that offensively,
he and his teammates on offense have to be quote
damn near perfect, And if you look at the last
three losses, it illustrates that the issues with the Bengals
dictate that damn near perfect isn't going to be good enough.

(47:22):
Joe played fine for the most part against Kansas City,
but he had a fumble that was run back for
a score. He had the pick yesterday in the fourth quarter,
a black mark on an otherwise sparkling performance. By the way,
he also had to throw late in the first half
against Carolina that he doesn't get beat up for because

(47:42):
of the individual play that Zach Moss makes. And so
I keep coming back to this. Joe Burrow was money yesterday.
He performed like an MVP. His numbers were great, he
was in control. He made one mistake and that one
mistake helped torpedo the game. So he doesn't have to

(48:03):
be damn near perfect. He's got to be perfect, and
even a quarterback of his caliber, with offensive weaponry that
he has at his disposal, probably isn't gonna be perfect.
He's played well, he played terrific yesterday. He looked like
the best quarterback in the league except for that one play,

(48:24):
and that play started the unraveling of the game.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
Yeah, you could say that play changed how they called
the rest of the game.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Sure, asking your quarterback to be perfect is not gonna work.
I mean that to me is the big sort of
thirty thousand foot takeaway. We could talk about what teams
they have remaining on their schedule or with the ease
with which they can navigate the next couple of weeks.
Because of the strengths and weaknesses of the team, primarily
the weaknesses, Joe Burrow has to play flawless football. That

(48:52):
is an incredibly impossible standard to ask any quarterback to
live up to.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
Yeah, and I mean you want to You can nitpick
and say, at the end of the seven minutes left
in the Kansas City game, they had the ball for
the chance to go score and end. Yeah, sure, yes,
they had the ball when he threw the pick. They
had the ball at the end of regulation. There was
a and I think it's overlook because how the second
half went. There was a series of plays in the
first half. So on the Bengals touchdown drive that tied

(49:18):
the game. If you remember, on that drive, Chase Brown
was fantastic. I mean, like the announcers were in all
of how he was hitting the hole and how hard
he was running. And they score on that drive and
at seven to seven, and the defense comes out and
gives you a rare three and out. That next drive
and the two after that, the Bengals decided not to

(49:41):
run the ball after Chase Brown was so effective. They
went three and out at seven to seven. Baltimore got
the ball back and scored the next possession. The Bengals
went three out. I think that was the one he
missed t Higgins where he had him deep and underthrew
it a little bit, and then they punted away safety

(50:01):
where it's fourteen to nine, and then they go five
plays in punts. So they had three straight drives in
the first half. That felt eerily similar to the Super
Bowl with the Rams where it felt like the game
was there to either stay in or take the lead,
and they got nothing out of those three drives. And
not only they got nothing, three plays, three plays, five plays,

(50:23):
the defense was right back out there. Yeah, and I
thought that in the first half was a miss because mo,
I mean, if you pulled the fans at halftime seventeen
to fourteen with the lead and how they had played defensively,
that was a huge win on the defensive side of
the ball, and they did what you wanted to do.
They scored coming out of the half.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, I mean, you're right, there were missed opportunities in
the first half, But I don't understand what a harball
was doing toward the end of the first half. And
I put that on social media. But yeah, seventeen to fourteen,
I get the ball and I score, you win that game. Yeah,
the championship caliber teams at home win that game. I
don't care who the opponent is, especially when from that

(51:01):
point you do nothing but keep scoring.

Speaker 5 (51:04):
Well, that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
To extended the lead to ten points on three different
occasions in the second half.

Speaker 5 (51:08):
That's where I switched the blame and question, what in
the hell is Louen Arumo doing because at the end
of the Kansas City game, Mo we said, why's he
rush three? At the end of the Washington game, I said,
when they're already in field goal range, why do you
go cover zero then and allow the only play to happen?

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Why do you have Dejohn Anthony on the field? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (51:27):
And then it's in the second half. You mentioned three
different ten point leads that leaked into the fourth quarter.
They were up ten twice in the fourth quarter. Leuen
Arumo on the day yesterday blitz forty one times. Lamar
Jackson was sacked how many? And I know Lamar is
great at extending the play and I know why. Right,

(51:48):
you can line up the interior defensive line for the
Bengals yesterday. If you combine all the players, they had
an opportunity at eighty six pass rush opportunities. Bj Hill
won three of the eighty three of his thirty. Chris Jenkins, McKinley, Jackson,
j To Filey and Guy won zero. So they won

(52:10):
three out of a possible eighty six pass rush.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
So I get it.

Speaker 5 (52:14):
The front four is not getting home. I get that,
But then you start lining up pressures in the second
half up ten three different times, and you allow for
what type of plays chunk plays, And it's just I'm
pulling my hair out watching in real time because now
it's not even about scoring. I know that the defense
is going to give up points, but I also know

(52:35):
the offense is scoring. Now I'm worried about the clock.
And they scored three different touchdowns in the situations where
they were down by ten, and in those three touchdowns,
ten fifty six went off the clock combined. If you
just make them go ten plays instead of four, how
many more, Like the clock's not stopping. It's the NFL

(52:57):
that's four or five more minutes, and then you're not
worried about the end of the game. Instead, you keep
blitzing and you keep giving up chunk plays. Baltimore cut
at to three, Bengals scored again. Bengals kicked off and
the ball hits off the receiver the return man for
Baltimore and goes out at the eight.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Eight yard line.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
Yeah, so now it's the fourth quarter and I'm thinking
they gotta go ninety two yards. There's twelve minutes left
in the game, and it's like down seven, and you
can look, it's like Mark Andrews seventeen yards, they flowers
twenty one, They get all these chunk plays. They converted
a first and twenty for multiple yards, And I'm like,
this is the time we're digging our heels in the

(53:35):
sand and saying we're gonna blitz. That's the time you
drop seven or eight and you do what Louis Rubo
has done so many times, which is give up yards,
make him dink and dunk. And you know what, if
you want to blow up in the red zone and
bring pressure and try to force three instead of seven, good,
But to allow a team to go down and just
essentially take no time off the clock on three straight

(53:55):
touchdown drives because now you figure out that you want
to blitz against it's one of the most impossible to
blitz quarterbacks in the NFL because of his athletic ability.
You blitz them forty one times, and you do it
all second half when all you need to do is
make them go on long touchdown drives. It's malpractice. How
how can you watch that and say, yep, Luey or

(54:17):
Ruo's correct.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
I get it.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
You don't have a front four that can apply pressure.
But at that point you don't need sacks. You just
need time to run off the clock and let the
ball go back to your offense.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
What's remarkable about that drive you just referenced started at
the eight. It included a ten yard holding penalty. Yep,
ten plays ninety two yards.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
Which essentially turns into one hundred and two yards.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Yeah, they had one third down and it was the
third and one on that drive. One third down, and
it was on a third and one the next drive
after the Jamar Chase seventy yard touchdown. I mean, they're
getting first downs on first down, on second down, on
first down, on set down. They finally get a third
and ten and then Jackson completes a pass for twelve yards.

(55:05):
That's where Hendrickson had the rough in the passer penalty,
and then the play that Jackson makes, which has gone viral,
But the ease with which they did it, accumulating large
chunks of yards in the process beyond men.

Speaker 5 (55:17):
For so many years, the recipe that's made them successful
against Kansas City is what give up yards?

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Yeah, yards not points. Hold them to field goals, yards
not points.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
And if Baltimore, instead of those touchdowns, just has to
settle for one field goal you win instead. That's the time.
And you don't just blitz one possession, you blitz every
possession in the second half forty one blitzes yesterday against
the quarterback who is damn near impossible to blitz. If
there's one knock on Lamar Jackson, it's what him as

(55:49):
a quarterback pocket passing drops seven or eight and make
him pick you apart, get frustrated and say, man, we're
running out of time. I'm at to try to fit
one in down the field. Was getting one on one
matchups against a secondary that can't cover as is, against
a team that can't tackle as is? It was, in
my opinion, malpractice. I don't even I don't know what

(56:14):
the word is to you. You don't have good enough
players on defense to be also making that egregious of
an air and calling defenses.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Was it the worst combined coach game the Bengals have had,
looking at everybody offense and defense, just coaching decisions. I
don't know that I have come out of a game
second guessing the staff and more.

Speaker 5 (56:38):
And like I said, it's gonna get swept under the rug.
Burrow made more tight window throws and down the field
throws accurately that I can remember seeing while taking hits.
It wasn't like they schemed up all the way down
the field.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
No.

Speaker 5 (56:51):
I did like some of the runs in the first half,
but second half came and I felt like all the
runs were were easy to determine. There wasn't any cree
creativity is basically, and all of a sudden, Baltimore is
getting the stops and getting the stops and getting the stops,
and you just felt like things in the momentum side
were turning, and you just keep playing with fire and

(57:11):
at the end of the day, you're playing with it
too much.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Twenty two minutes after four o'clock. Excuse me, he's Tony
Pikom Moegger, Tony and Mo Football Show. Dam an to
the Bengals get beat by the Baltimore Ravens at the
venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium. More to dive into.
We also have to ask the question that I think
no one wants us to ask. We'll talk about what
happened with the other AFC North teams yesterday and last
night to some college football as well on ESPN fifteen

(57:37):
thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Station Tom This is Football Illinetti brought to you in
part by Modern office Methods. On the official home of
the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Is ESPN fifteen talked about Louyanna Roumo and the defense
yesterday in the safety play on a Weekend where Jesse
Bates goes to show, oh why he is regarded by
most as the best safety in the sport. The safety play,
they got desperate enough to play Jordan Battle yesterday and
you saw why maybe they hadn't. He was terrible. Von
Bell not good. Geno Stone has been a bust. And

(58:18):
then you'll hold that up against what Jesse has done
in Atlanta.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
Yeah, it ain't good. I give I said that during
the interview. I'll give Kelsey Conway credit because she's asking
the hard questions. Did you see what she tweeted out
a couple of days ago about Jesse Bates. She said,
Jesse Bates is a walking reminder that if you draft
a star, even at a position that's not quarterback, wide

(58:42):
receiver d N, you don't let them leave your building.
Players make a difference in today's NFL. She goes on
to say bad business to let homegrown players walk, especially
when you tell everyone you're saving money to pay your
stars and then fail to pay t Higgins and then
fail in round one of paying Jamar Chase. It puts

(59:03):
so much pressure now on ownership to at the very
least get the Chase done deal. But it also goes
to show the failures of that decision because whether it's
been draft or via free agency, they've not come close
to finding production that Jesse Bates would have given them
at the back end of that defense that desperately desperately

(59:25):
needs it.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah, and look, I feel bad for Dag Hill that
he's hurt. I hope he comes back, but he failed
as a safety. Yep, what they did last year was failure.
Jordan Battle doesn't look like he's ready to play in
the NFL right now. Geno Stone to this point at
least has been a miss.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
They went back to Von Bell, and they.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Went back to a player that they were willing to
let walk two years ago because they felt like the
chances are his best footballs behind him. That decision with
Jesse You're exactly right, Kelsey's right. I mean the reverberation
of it, because you couldn't talk about Jesse when he
was here, when they were going through the whole franchise
tag and you couldn't talk about him without referencing Tea

(01:00:03):
t is now going to leave at the end of
the year. And then he can't talk about Tea's deal
without mentioning what they're gonna give Jamar, and that deal
hasn't gotten done yet. And it's you can let players go,
like they let a good player and Joe Mixon go,
but we like what they have at running back. It's
not about just letting the guy go. If you've got
a Plan B or Plan A to replace him in place,

(01:00:26):
and it's a guy who's cheaper and almost as good
and eventually will be as good awesome, that hasn't happened.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
It is.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
I just get angry thinking about it because talking about
it on the radio, everything that it felt like we
were being fed was you can't pay Jesse and then
turn around and pay Tea and Jamar. Yeah, and now
you fast forward to now and you can't pay both
of those receivers. Okay, then why didn't we pay Jamar
or why didn't we pay Jesse?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Bates and I talked about this last week. I go,
you know, the Bengals defense of twenty twenty one was
built because they threw money at it. So now you're
gonna tell me you can't throw money at it because
of what you're paying on offense.

Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
Yeah, and it really hasn't even kicked in what you're
going to be paying an offense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
And your your track record of drafting on defense ain't
very good. We got to get a break in twenty
nine away from five o'clock, Tony and mol Football Show
at Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
You've been listening to football in Thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty since then
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's Sports station.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Twenty three away from five o'clock. Excuse me. Sports headlines
are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of Lifetime powertrain
protection and guarantee credit approval from their family to yours
for life, kelseyshev dot Com. Dax Hill out for the
twenty twenty four season the rest of it with tour
acl Saint for Jackson Kirkland. He's done for the year.

(01:01:53):
A different injury torn BICEP. Bengals getting said for Sunday
Night Football in Jersey against the Giants eight twenty Sunday evening.
The game is live on ESPN fifteen thirty. Monday Night
Football tonight the Chiefs hosting the New Orleans Saints on
ESPN fifteen thirty. As well. Terry Francona officially introduced as

(01:02:14):
the manager of the Cincinnati Rads.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
Tino, Tino, Let's have some titos to celebrate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Tito's former team is playing right now. The Guardians and Tigers,
Game two of their American League Division series is scoreless
in the bottom of the second inning. How about this
day in Kansas City, Man. The Chiefs play tonight trying
to improve to five and zero, and the Royals play
tonight after a great game won they lost against the
Yankees game two of that series this evening. College football Texas,

(01:02:40):
Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, and Georgia one through five
in the AP Top twenty five College Football Poll. Indiana
is eighteenth and the Mark Soop Show is tonight at
six and on ESPN fifteenth thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
Not the way you want to be going into the
playoffs here if you're FC Cincinnati. Another loss on Saturday night, No,
everything is really fun. On a part weird because they're
still third in the standings in the East. But it
just it doesn't feel or look like a team that
is going to be competitive right he feels.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Like a two team race in the Eastern Conference. Right now,
it's time for the sweet Life HVAC stat of the game.
It is brought to you by sweet Life Heating and
Air serving Greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, and Southeast Indiana with
sweet Life HVAC service always comes with a cherry on top,
and they've got the coolest trucks in America. Gonna call

(01:03:29):
Sweetlife dot Com. I've got a few for you here, okay.
Joe Burrow yesterday became the first player to lose a
game with three hundred and seventy five plus passing yards
and five or more touchdowns since Patrick Mahomes against the
Rams in twenty eighteen. Also, he's the eighth such quarterback
to lose a game like that in the Super Bowl era,

(01:03:50):
which goes back to nineteen sixty six. Jamar Chase makes
NFL history. Entering the game yesterday, Chase was tied with
Odell Beckham Junior with nine touchdown receptions of sixty plus
or more yards before turning twenty five years old, and
then he had a seventy yard scoring catch. He is
now tied with Harlan Hill for the most all time,

(01:04:11):
and Chase doesn't turn twenty five years old until March first.
Want to thank Sincey Jungle for that nugget. And the
Bengals this year are second in expected points added per
drive and second in offensive success ring easily the most
efficient offense they've ever had in the Joe Burrow era,
and they're one in four.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Yeah, that is remark like you could find like one
hundred stats like that today. You know, on a positive note,
they'vecored one hundred and fifty five points this season.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Yeah, yes, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:04:42):
The five and no Vikings have only scored one hundred
and thirty nine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
So here's the thing, And I said this to Austin,
I don't think the season's over because I think offensively
they're good enough and healthy enough that they're going to
win games.

Speaker 5 (01:04:59):
They they terrify any defense they'll play.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Sure they like if you watched yesterday and thought season over,
season over to me in first, you think they're gonna
go like four and thirteen or three and fourteen that's
I would be shocked if that happened unless they just
suffered a whole bunch of injuries on offense and Burrow
had to miss a large stretch of time. They're too

(01:05:22):
good offensively for me to consider the season over their
next four games. They're projected to be favorites in all
four and none of those games if they won, would
it be a surprise. What has happened, though, is I
think their ceiling has fallen, right, and Joe said it yesterday.
We're not a championship caliber team, So I don't think
the season is over. But the days of us talking

(01:05:42):
about them being among the league's elite or being legitimate
title contenders, that talk would have been reignited yesterday had
they won the game, and that would be the focus
of today's show. We are months away from that being
the case with the way things stand right now. And
it's not just one in four. It's a defense that
is suffering more injuries and can't stop anybody.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
Well, that's the thing you think, Okay, the offense is
going to strike fear in anyone they play. What if
the offense doesn't play near perfect, right? You know, how
does that game shape out? I think that's the scary
part about any of this right now. Again, with the defense,
I feel like they can with the offense, I feel
like they can win every game with the defense. Yeah,

(01:06:26):
you know, I just worry when it becomes too much
and it hits the boiling point. And you mentioned is
the season over. No, the trade deadline will come up,
and I know we're gonna have this Tee Higgins conversation
at some point today. You also got to make roster
decisions going forward because at the end of this, the
worst case scenario is like eight and nine, you're pick

(01:06:48):
in the mid rounds, you get a middle of the
pack schedule next year. You either want to make a
legit run at this and go get some help on
defense at the deadline, or you start the rebuild now now,
because you don't just want to linger in that you know,
seven to ten, eight nine window for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
People worry about La de la Cruz and where he's
gonna be after twenty twenty nine. Yep, Joe Burrow can
become a free agent the same year. I don't want
to waste this, and so what I think will be
interesting heels like it's been wasted, right now, well, let's
say they finish eight to nine. You're running it back
with the same coaching staff, right, You're running it back

(01:07:27):
with the same defensive coordinator. Like, we hear about urgency
all the time, urgency as an organization, there's gotta be
some urgency. You missed the playoffs last year mainly because
Burrow got hurt. Burrow plays seventeen games this season, and
you're on the outside looking in. We got to re
examine a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
The offense puts up numbers like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Yeah, So that's that's everything. It's how do we handle
the off season. It's how do we fix our defense?
It's well, what do we what do we do once
we lose t Higgins? It's what's going to be next
on an offensive line where there's a lot of guys
who are getting older. But like I know, it sounds
premature if we're sitting here in December and this team
is playing out the string, or if they're on the

(01:08:07):
outside looking into the playoffs while they're supposed to be
winin this championship window. The quarterback's not going anywhere, right,
what we do with the coaching staff, Like I'm just like,
especially with lou Anaruma. You're talking about somebody whose star
has fallen. Yeah, this is the guy that we all
thought should go be a head coach. Now I'm wondering
if he should be the DC in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 5 (01:08:27):
Maybe he's just a good DC against Kansas City. Could
be because he had interviews. Yeah, no one thought enough
of those to go and say he's our guy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:35):
I we're in this conversation today and you mentioned it
at the start of the show because of how poorly
September was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Uh huh.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
Eventually that has to fall on the coaching staf right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
That's the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:08:46):
Like, we're not having this conversation today about do you
think about t Higgins?

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
What do you do? Do you blow this thing up?

Speaker 5 (01:08:53):
We're not having that if they just take care of
business in September as more than a touchdown favorites twice
at home. Like, I just I can't wrap my head
around making the same mistakes, not just game in and
game out, year in and year out. They're talking about
slow starts and getting behind the eight ball and having
to play games in early October where there's way more
pressure than there should be because that game from a

(01:09:15):
fan standpoint. If the Bengals are two and two or
three and one, that's fun. Yeah, I'm sitting back and
I'm off all this is great. A four and h
tough loss, great game. Move on at one in three,
you're hanging on every snap, and then it's one and
four and it feels like a gut punch to the
whole season.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
In two thousand and five, I think it was two
thousand and five. In two thousand and five, the Bengals
lost a game. In fact, it was two thousand and five.
They lost a game to the Indianapolis Colts where it
was at at the time, Paul Brown Stadium. Peyton Manning
was unbelievable, forty five to thirty seven. The loss sent
the Bengals to seven and three. Yeah, and I walked

(01:09:54):
out of that stadium and I said, that's one of
the coolest offenses I've ever watched. Right, it was Peyton
man being the offensive coordinator on the field. I went
to that game with my dad and I'm like, yeah,
tough loss, stinging loss. We're seven to three. Yep, we're fine, right,
and I think won the division. Obviously, things unfolded the
way they did in the postseason and be on. But
I walked out of that stadium going, boy, that was

(01:10:15):
awesome to watch. I saw Peyton Manning at his absolute best.
I hope I see these two teams play in a
bigger game moving forward. I would have said almost the
same thing yesterday if yesterday's loss punted them to three
and two, right, because there's time to make up for it.
You get a chance to help play on the right.
Tip your captain Lamar, who deserves it. He was awesome yesterday,

(01:10:36):
but it was my When they lost to Kansas City.
My first takeaway, well, you lost to a team that
has a chance to get the number one overall pick
the week before, so now you're zero and two and
it sucks. And then when they lose to Washington, okay,
your tip your cat to Jane Daniels. You should have
been one and one, you could have been two and
oh now you're ozho and three. And that's the thing.
Like that, for as much as the first couple of weeks,

(01:10:58):
you know, you get reassured they've done this before. They're
awesome at rebounding from slow starts. I said it often
after Game two. Keep playing with fire, you're gonna get burned.
This team has gotten burned. And so now you could say, well,
look offensively, they're cooking right now, and they are. If
they score one hundred and five points over the next
three games, they're gonna come away with with more than

(01:11:18):
one win. But what happens if it has an off week?
What happens if Joe just has an off week?

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
Ye?

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
What happens if there's an injury to a key player?
Te Higgins has already missed time this season in clement weather.
Offensive line doesn't haven't won whatever it is, bad flag,
bad whistle, Like you're asking this offense to now score
more than thirty eight points every single game. That's not sustainable.
It might work on Sunday Night against the Giants, it
might work against the Cleveland Browns. It might work well

(01:11:47):
enough for them to be playing meaningful football in December.
But the idea coming into this season was to compete
for a championship at This isn't sustainable if.

Speaker 5 (01:11:55):
That's the goal, and if it's not attainable, what ramifications
does it have?

Speaker 6 (01:12:01):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:12:02):
Because all I want to all I hear is well,
they'll never make it. Move from Zach because he let
him to a Super Bowl Okay, Well, the thoughts around
this team were never as as to what they are now.
They never had a corps like this where the super
Bowl felt attainable. So if that's not being lived up to,
someone has to hold for accountability. And if you're telling

(01:12:22):
me that Duke Tobin is confident that that's the defense
that they wanted to put out there, then it's on
lou An Rouma that the defense isn't succeeding, or it's
on the scheme. Why are they rushing three against Kansas
City on fourth down? Why are they going covers zero
against Jane Daniels. Why are they blitzing forty one times
yesterday against a quarterback you can't get to anyway? Who's
accountable for those decisions? So I'm mad at coaching and

(01:12:46):
I hate because I know in this city when anyone
says anything about Joe Burrow, people gasp. I'm mad at
Joe Burrow because at some point I want Joe Burrow
to have a little bit of a screw you mentality.
I don't care if the play is called or not.
I'm doing this swing past the Jamar Chase, like I
know Tom Brady would like Aaron Rodgers done his whole career,
and like I know, with the game on the line,
Patrick Mahomes would probably do right now, I want that

(01:13:07):
in my quarterback, the same quarterback who we are applauding
for saying, I'm glad he's speaking out. I'm glad he's
saying that he's got to be perfect that hold the
coaches accountable to or say that I'm gonna put this
on my shoulder and it gets nine guys in the box,
I'm throwing the damn ball outside.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
I was watching two weeks ago The thirty for thirty.
It's one of my favorite ones. It's about the eighty
five Bears, right, and Jim McMahon's like, first of all,
Steve McMichael, who's in the Hall of Fame, and obviously
this was before he was stricken with the LS. The
show was made like ten years ago. He goes, you know,
our offensive coordinator was Jim McMahon, and Jim mc mann
started talking about how like, yeah, we took off offensively

(01:13:42):
when I decided I'm changing the play, like Mike Dick
is making the wrong calls, I know what to do right.
You mentioned Tom Brady, the quarterback that Joe has been
compared to most often just in terms of how he
handles himself. His skill set is Tom Brady. Not that
he's gonna have the same career, but is Tom Brady.
For the life of me, I cannot imagine Tom Brady
in overtime tie game going Okay, let's run three simple

(01:14:06):
inside hand.

Speaker 5 (01:14:06):
Off with nine guys in the high I can't imagine it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
So yeah, like, Joe was awesome yesterday, but there is
a huge part of me, I'm with you that goes, Dude, Joe.

Speaker 5 (01:14:14):
What's gonna happen? Like, come on, man, is he gonna
get benched?

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:14:18):
Is that gonna be at him?

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:14:21):
Right, because the conversation would have been been very easy.
Why'd you throw it? There were nine guys in the box? Yeah,
Like two things.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Gonna happen Because I'm Joe freaking Burrow.

Speaker 5 (01:14:30):
He could have maybe makes a bad throw and it's incomplete.
Or Jamar Chase gets tackled in space, which is very rare.
Who's gonna care because I'm willing to bet a lot
more money that they get a first down or more
if Jamar Chase is one on one that that's like
saying from hash to sideline, you give Jamar Chase the
ball and five yards and you're telling me the guy's

(01:14:53):
gonna tackle him well.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
And and that's your guy. In the aftermath of it,
Joe would have been asked, and I'm sure Joe would
have said, I had confidence and the guys in front
of me to block, and I had confidence in the
dude who had nearly two hundred yards receiving to make
a play one on one, and I'll live and die
with that every time, yep. And I would have shrugged
my shoulders and said, fine, thank you. I hated how it.
If it went poorly, it went poorly. You went down

(01:15:15):
with your best. You went down with your best. I
think there's something to that where if you're Joe, you
just you come out of the huddle and go Jamar, Jamar,
You and me, no, right, yep.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
And the thing that you throw it so quick you're
not worried about lime. You don't even have to tell anyone, right,
I mean, there were fifteen different play calls that I had,
and I know this wasn't even at advanced. Or if
I came out and we had leverage, I could take
the ball and throw a swing pass, or I could
just signal to the receiver and no one else, no
one else needs to know signal out there and just
get the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
And throw it. He is the most important person in
the organization. He is making an animal salary that coming
into the year, I think made in the highest paid
quarterback in the sport. He sent a contract where two
hundred and seventy million dollars. Regardless, that's your guy, and
I would have appreciated the guy in that moment, going
I'm not handing the ball off here, and you know what,
maybe I will on second down, on first down, let's go,

(01:16:11):
let's win this game. Instead of playing to the hands
of the defense. We got to get a break in
eight Away from five o'clock, He's Tony, Piko, mowegor Twin
Peaks in Florence. Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. This is your Monday sports minute,
brought to you by Away from five o'clock. This is
the Toni and Bo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty.

(01:16:33):
We have a lot more to cover, including the Browns
lose again. The Steelers lose on the last effectively the
last play of the game. Last night in a Sunday
night football game that was delayed by bad weather in Pittsburgh.
We've got the week of college football ahead, UC on
the road against UCF coming up on Saturday, a part

(01:16:53):
of the country where they're dealing with preparations for a hurricane.
And the NFL's trade deadline is four weeks from tomorrow,
and we've got to have a conversation that I don't
think anybody wants us to have, but we're gonna have
it anyway. We'll do that coming up between now and
six o'clock. We're here at Twin Peaks in Florence, very

(01:17:16):
easy to get to. We're watching the American League Division
Series game. Detroit and Cleveland are scoreless in the bottom
of the third inning. Monday Night football coming up tonight
the other a Alds game as well, with the Yankees
and Royals getting underway later tonight in the Bronx. Coming
out and hang out with us here till six o'clock
Tony and mo Football Show. He's Tony Pike on Moegar.

(01:17:36):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 7 (01:17:41):
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Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
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Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Final Hour, Power Hour View, Tony, do you think this
is the most sour we have been on this show?

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
Probably in the Borough era? But I'm not upset about
that because we need to be I received more text
yesterday or calls of don't let him off the hook. Yeah,
don't be easy on him.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
It's funny you say that because I know I know
a lot of folks who I heard from yesterday who
never criticize act Taylor right, who are typically not they lose,
let's fire the coach. Like that's most people in my
circle of friends and people that I talked to and

(01:19:38):
family aren't the sort of people that after every game
want to make wholesale changes or fire the coach. Sure,
I probably got eight to ten between yesterday, afternoon, last
night and today. Yep, like I'm done, it's time to
move on, asking what we're gonna say, and like they're
not going to fire him today. It kind of flings

(01:19:59):
it back to the the discussion we were having before.
If this season ends up being won where they don't
even sniff the playoffs, and you are trying to win
while you have Joe Burrow in his prime. You know,
I'm sorry, man, I think all things are on the table.
That includes coaching staff changes, that includes taking a look they,
as much as a lot of people don't want to

(01:20:19):
admit it, after Joe Burrow's rookie season inside that stadium,
they deliberated Zach Taylor's future. They did. Mike Brown, if
you remember, two days after the season ended, released a
statement acknowledging we're keeping Zach Taylor. He didn't do that
most years when Marvin was here, unless his contract was

(01:20:39):
expiring and they gave him a new one. That was
an acknowledgment. And I can tell you this that it
was a discussion what do we do? So it's not
going to be a discussion if they underachieved this year,
which so far they have. By the way, five o'clock
Happy Hour on ESPN fifteen thirty is a service of
bud Light. We're here at Twin Peaks in Florence until
six o'clock.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
You can get a bud light here.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
You can get a bud light here, and I'm about
to get one pole questions thanks to United Heartland Insurance
On Twitter, slash x pole questions only give you four options.
So I've asked this question assuming the Bengals are gonna
win at least one. But between now and the trade deadline,
there are four games. They got the Giants this week,
Bengals are a three and a half point favorite, go

(01:21:22):
to Cleveland. The Browns are a mess. Probably will be
favored in that game. They'll play the Raiders. I'm sorry,
they'll play the Eagles. My guess is slight favorites here
and then the Raiders. They'll be favored again. So four
games before the deadline. The deadline is on the Tuesday,
before they play the Ravens. What will the Bengals record

(01:21:45):
be on trade deadline day?

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
I would say four and five?

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Okay, forty six point three percent agree that means they
and three of their next four.

Speaker 5 (01:22:01):
The only reason I say that is I'm not and
maybe we should be, because I know Malie Neighbors is ridiculous.
I'm not as scared of Gardner Minshew or Aidan O'Connell,
certainly not scared of de Shawn Watson, right. I would
be more this game here, it's a game on something
that scares me. Yeah, I would be more nervous against
Cleveland if it was Jamis Winston and not Deshaun Watson,

(01:22:25):
which is weird. You want to talk about a situation,
we can talk about that. Yeah, that's a weird situation
and a decision that they have to make. But four
and five is probably my best guess.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
All right, So if they're four and five, understanding they
start one in four. Now it's four and five going
into Baltimore. Forget the trade deadline for just a second.
That seems like a reasonable goal. The problem is you
talked about like Gardner Minshew and Jalen Hurts, Like to me,
with this defense every offense, Yeah, it doesn't matter. I mean,
it doesn't matter who it is.

Speaker 5 (01:22:55):
Yeah, So if I might worry more about not about
Jalen Hurts, but Saquon Barkley, no question.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
So like if I if I'm a Cleveland fan, and
by the way, their issues sort of go beyond Deshaan Watson.
The offensive line is terrible, They've had defensive problems. But
if I'm a Cleveland fan and my team can get
one this week at Philly, well, we have a lot
of success historically against the Bengals, and we get that
defense in our building. All right, four and five at
the deadline, you're not in cell mode, correct, No, nor

(01:23:23):
should you be anything less. I am all right two
over the next two I'm selling So at three and six, yep.
So two and seven, yep. I know this is the
discussion no one wants to have. But before these things
become reality, if you're Duke Tobin, if you're running an
NFL team, you have to start planning for what may

(01:23:44):
lay ahead. T Higgins is going to be a free
agent at the end of the season. The wide receiver
market is robust, DeVante Adams. Trade talks between the Raiders
and other teams are going to intensify.

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Four and five, No, five and four. Obviously no three
and six. So how are you not listening to offers? Now?

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
That would also be three and six, two more against
Pitts Park. You got to go to Baltimore.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
It's done.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
At three and six, you're gonna run the table to
go to Tennis six.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
It's done.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
Like it's yeah, I guess at three and.

Speaker 5 (01:24:18):
Six you're it's a seventeen games because right now it's
just kicking the cans. It's the same conversation we had
ten times about the Reds. Exact, they can get the
five hundred this weekend, so you feel good.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
It's trade deadline day or it's the trade deadlines approaching
and you've decided we're gonna listen to offers for T Higgins.
If you get an offer from the Kansas City Chiefs,
what do you do. So now there are gonna be
a lot of fans who say, well, you could trade them,
but not to the Chiefs. I don't care. I'm all
about getting the best possible thing back in return. And
if that's from a division team, if that's from he

(01:24:49):
may resign there and whatever. But he could do that
this off season anyway. Like that's the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:24:53):
I never would have imagined he's gonna walk for nothing, right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
I never would have imagined a month ago that we
would even be entertaining the Bengals moving on from players
at the deadline. And we're maybe not there yet, but
it's starting to be on our radar. Especially. Look, there
were folks who said before the season, trade team gets something.
I don't know what you would get a return for
him on a deadline deal, But you mean to tell

(01:25:19):
me at three and six or worse. They shouldn't listen
to offers.

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
I mean, if they go two and two over the
next four, that tells me the defense is still atrocious
and they're not gonna win regardless of how good the
offense is. So you have to start retoying at that point.
And people will say, no, Kansas City. I'd rather take
a couple of draft picks away from Kansas City, you
know why, because they've hit on their draft picks. Yeah,
and the least amount of draft picks they have probably

(01:25:43):
the better. And if they want to resign him, they
could have resigned him anyway. When he walks after this season,
I just I'm with you. I struggled thinking this is
where we're out already. I hate it, but it's the reality.
And if you look at anything going on this week,
the talks are that they were talks that are going
to be intensifying for Davante Adams. Sit back and you

(01:26:04):
see what Davante Adams fetches. Keep in contact with some
of these teams and say, hey, I know you missed
out on DeVante, but I got a receiver who's six
years younger, six years younger than what Davante Adams is
with a ton of upside, because that's like the point
we started this with, of people getting messages and things
like that. Normally, what I see and what I go

(01:26:26):
through is I'm mad the day of the game, and
then I wake up and I start to kind of
sift back through. I'm having trouble finding that, and I
think a lot of people are at that mad and
baffled mode because you're one, one and four and two.
You got to one and four by what feels like

(01:26:47):
going down without your best, like we've hit on in
the course of the show, and for whatever reason, it's
just it's sitting poorly with a lot of people, and
rightfully so. But normally it doesn't stick around that long,
not only the day after things start to cool down
and all right, let's look forward and what can we
do it. It's hard to find that right now.

Speaker 3 (01:27:07):
Yeah, this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
This was emotionally and it was. It was how overtime
played out. It was also three different times, specifically twice
in the fourth quarter where you're thinking we're up ten,
get a stop and we're good, yep, right, it's devastating
and to not even come close to getting it. It's

(01:27:30):
it's so sobering watching that defense perform the way it has,
knowing no help is coming. Yep, uh Lou and Aroumo.
You know he blitz way too many times. Yesterday he
did at least he did at least try something. Mckilley Jackson,
Killy jack Yeah. Like so you have to ask your

(01:27:51):
offense to be even better than it was yesterday, and
better than it was against Washington. You know, we keep
coming back to this. At some point, they're not going
to be now again. Joe Burrow in. That offense is
gonna cook most weeks if it continues to enjoy good health,
but they're gonna have bad games, and when they do,

(01:28:11):
you have no chance of winning.

Speaker 5 (01:28:12):
Yep, high wins bad weather get later in the season.
You gotta rely on more of the running game, and
it's more dogfight type games.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
You can't play complimentary football, you can't play field position football.
It changes your mindset. You've talked about this a lot
as a play caller. Twenty twenty one Bengals, Right. The
cool thing about that season was they won games differently.
They win shootouts against Kansas City, they win a defensive
game against Denver. We saw what they did with their
defense in the postseason, but they got there because of

(01:28:40):
Joe Burrow. In that offense, you can beat teams a
variety of ways. The Chiefs can beat teams a variety
of ways. I think the Texans can beat teams a
variety of ways. I think the Minnesota Vikings can beat teams, Yep,
a variety of ways. The Bengals can beat you one way,
and that's hope we score one more point by us
hanging a high number in the thirties forties. It's it's

(01:29:02):
not sustainable, Nope.

Speaker 5 (01:29:04):
And the longer this goes on, the more it just
becomes this this hanging fruit that creates toxicity in the
locker room like that. Again, we had the conversation weeks
ago two thousand and nine, really good offense, terrible defense.
Locker room was fine because we were winning games. I

(01:29:25):
can assure you if we lose three or four games
in a row and it's being played out like that,
locker room's not gonna be good. Yeah, you know, and
it's gonna start to unravel. And that's again I go
back to the man in charge. Where's the accountability? Yeah,
dude to say afterwards, he sees good things in the defense,

(01:29:47):
and the d's playing good enough to win. As an
offensive player, I'm sitting back, like, what do we like?
It's one thing for coach speech. How about just saying
what we're doing isn't good enough and we got to
figure out answers.

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
And you don't have to call out in the visual players, right,
I mean, you don't have to sit there and go, yeah,
we put in Jordan battle and he was terrible. I mean,
you don't have to do that.

Speaker 5 (01:30:06):
But oh boy, let me ask you this right now,
according to Pro Football Focus, they're the twenty ninth ranked
tackling team in football right now. They're the thirty first
ranked pass rush team in football. You would think they're worst,
but they're the tenth best team against the run.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
By the way, Tony last year they stunk on defense
right too.

Speaker 5 (01:30:23):
But in those can he say we are not nearly
where we need to be rushing the passer and our
tackling is atrocious. That's not calling anybody out right specifically,
but it's holding people accountable for your actions. Right now,
what I hear from him is no accountability.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Well, and the other thing that to me is frustrating,
And this sort of goes beyond the head coach and
to a degree beyond the defensive coordinator. They sucked on
defense last year. I could use a more semantically responsible word.
They were atrocious, last in the NFL in yards per
carry against, last in the NFL in the fewest explosive
plays a pass rush that be Trey Hendrickson was not

(01:31:01):
in movable. Nothing's changed. They're still not good against the run.
There's still atrocious when it comes to giving up explosive plays.
The secondary is a wreck. Nobody can put any pressure
on the quarterback. Like three hundred and sixty five days
from a year ago, at this time, nothing has changed.

Speaker 5 (01:31:17):
So knowing that we did the whole wheel of blame
last week the week before, knowing that there's Zach Taylor,
there's the players themselves, there's Louin Arumo, there's Duke Tobin.
You mentioned what this defense was last year, they essentially
said Osa's gonna get better, Sam's gonna get healthy, Miles
Murphy's gonna be good enough. We'll add a couple mid
to late round draft picks.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
And all these young pieces in the second area.

Speaker 5 (01:31:39):
Comes Sheldon rankins. We'll make that mini move in the
in the offseason, So if if that's the case, who
gets the lion's share of the blame here?

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
Well, I mean to me, it starts with the front office,
because Duke Tobin's task this offseason was to, from a
roster perspective, fix it and make it better. Did it happen?

Speaker 5 (01:32:00):
Not top ten better? Just top twenty in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
If the Bengals had over the last five weeks a
league average defense, the probably four and one league average. Yep,
probably four and one. I don't need the eighty five Bears.
I don't need the two thousand Ravens. I don't need
the twenty twenty one Bengals. Like, okay, get off the
field occasionally. Let's have the other other team's punters show

(01:32:25):
up once or twice, maybe get the occasional turnover, and
we win, and some of these games win decisively. Yep,
So I start. I start there with Duke. Like lu
and Roumo, didn't suddenly forget how to call defenses, although
we certainly have brought into question some of the things
he's done tactically. It's in twenty one. They threw a
bunch of money at the defense. I mean they did.

(01:32:46):
DJ reader Trey Hendrickson Shnobi a Wooz threw money at it, yep,
because it was easy to do right. We could overpay
dj Reader because we've got the money to spend well.
When you've got to be a little bit more strategic
with your money and you've got to start drafting better,
it's a little bit more different. Duke Tobin defensively has failed,
and someone made the decision to not bring back Jesse Bates.

(01:33:07):
So Duke Topin, we hear it all the time to
facto GM. Until I hear otherwise, I will I will
assume the decision to not bring back Jesse Bates playing
like the best safety in football who they haven't figured
out how to replace that they've been trying to replace
for almost three years. That was his decision.

Speaker 5 (01:33:25):
Someone else made the decision to give Jermaine Pratt the
money to be a three down backer. Yeah, that's not
played out. Someone also made the decision that move on
from Cheetoh Can Taylor BRIT's number one and right now,
Cam Taylor britt On, a lot of teams in the
NFL would struggle to be their number two corner. He's
been that bad. He looks lost. Someone's making these decisions

(01:33:47):
someone from an organizational standpoint is making these decisions, and
then it says, okay, well is that the roster and
then it's Luanna Rumo's scheme is that the players in general?
Is it Zach Taylor's motivation?

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
What is it?

Speaker 5 (01:34:03):
Because whatever it is, it's unequivocally not working. From the
way they've drafted to the decisions on who to move
on from and who to bring in in free agency
has been an absolute disaster.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
The idea that you have a quarterback performing at an
MVP caliber level and you have one win is astounding. Astounding.
I'm gonna ask you another question about Zach Taylor when
we come back. We're at Twin Peaks in Florence, Tony
and Mo Football Show. Here Toll six. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
On the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen
thirty six.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Chapter five. We're at Twin Peaks in Florence for the
Tony and Mo Football Show. I skipped over the segment
where we focus on the AFC North. We touched a
little bit on the Browns. Yeah, who are an absolute mess,
doster fire. I guess what I don't understand is you
made the playoffs last year without Deshaun Watson and Jameis Winston. Fine,
but you made the playoffs last year, you made a

(01:35:01):
run without Deshaun Watson. So I stay married to playing
him now unless it's solely about trying to get some
value out of that contract.

Speaker 5 (01:35:09):
I am twice as concerned about the Browns if Jamis
Winston's the starting quarterback in two weeks. Yeah, just Watson
looks lost, and not only lost, he's lost the guys
around him. You can't tell me Cleveland's defense even throughout
how the Bengals offense feels. You can't tell me Cleveland's

(01:35:29):
defense goes into a game feeling confident that whatever they
do is going to be enough.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
With how bad that offense is, how much longer can
Pittsburgh stick with Justin Fields.

Speaker 5 (01:35:39):
I think last night was probably one of those let's
give it a go. They have to have a serious
conversation this week, because you know, I'm listening to Tony
Dungee last week or last night in that extended rain delay.
He's talking about seeing him this week. And Russell Wilson
looked as good throwing the ball as he has now,
I know justin fields gives you that running ability that

(01:36:01):
you want, but at some point what's happening with the
offense isn't working and you've got too good of a
defense to be wasting.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
You want to know my thoughts on the Sunday night
football weather delay. Can we get those folks at desk
to say.

Speaker 5 (01:36:13):
Yeah, they got to stand a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
They were all huddled very close to each other, Maria Taylor,
Jason Garrett. Is it Jason or Devin mccordy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):
I think it's Jason mccordy.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
Okay, I should I should know that. Who's excellent by
and and Chris Sims. But they were all like standing
at this podium together for like ninety minutes. Yeah, there's
no desk.

Speaker 5 (01:36:35):
You could tell it was tough because at one point
they threw it to the sideline reporter. Yes, and she's
in the tunnel, yeah, and her report was that they
just brought sandwich food. Yeah, into the locker room. It's
like man, and she's and then like they have the
camera and she's like, and I will update you with
anything else that happens down here.

Speaker 2 (01:36:53):
Well, at one point they show a shot of like
two Steelers players walking in a tunnel. Yeah, and Maria Taylor,
who's excellent. Oh you know this is good. Here come
the players and they were walking into the locker room.

Speaker 5 (01:37:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Yeah, they had not prepared weird television.

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Yeah, it was like, hey, just get through this.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
So let's say that this season went sideways enough for
the Brown family to decide to move on from Zach Taylor,
and the Bengals were one of let's say six teams
to move on from their head coach. Do you think
another team would prioritize hiring him as their head coach?

Speaker 5 (01:37:30):
No, no, just not as a head coach. Maybe a coordinator.
But oh, you have a job in the league, right,
you have a job in the league. But I don't
think he's getting hired on as a head coach anywhere.
I mean, he's they have one of the most enviable
rosters offensively in the game. An offense has been good.
But the decision making to go away from those guys

(01:37:53):
is maddening. And there's been too many of those decisions
that we've had a question on the day after a
show over the last couple of years. The play calling it,
I mean, even the interception, I know that's on Joe,
you're telling me that you go into motion and the
whole sideline screaming now that slant's coming.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
M hm.

Speaker 5 (01:38:11):
That just that that doesn't do it for me.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
So you're gonna again, we're not there yet. But let's
say the Bengals underachieved this season and it really becomes
a topic what to do with the head coach. They're
not firing him after yesterday, but the season, let's say
it goes seven and ten, and there's a real sense
of boy wasted this season. Window was really damn open
this year. Now there's gonna be some transition and should

(01:38:38):
the head coach be a part of that transition. Some
are gonna say, what's not fair to do to Zach,
I'm not interested in what's fair. I'm interested in having
the best in the world at what they do. The
Reds just let David Bell go. Okay. I didn't like
how they did it, and I don't think David Bell
was a bad manager, But did they replace him with
arguably the best of those of it, the best in

(01:39:01):
the world at what they do. Yes, And I hate
it for David Bell, and maybe removing him might not
have been fair. But for once, the Cincinnati Red said,
we're gonna get the best at what we do and
the best of what he does who's available, and we'll
have to pay and we'll have to maybe make some assurances,
but that's undeniable. It may work, it may not, who knows.

(01:39:21):
But they said David Bell is a good man. We
did just extend him. And again I don't like how
they did it. I thout doing it with time to
go in the season was sort of stupid, But you
cannot argue that they didn't go find someone whose resume,
whose level of accomplishment and whose reputation is far superior. Good.
So with Zach Taylor, again, great guy has done a

(01:39:44):
lot of good things, has accomplished a lot. I think
has been a good coach for this team. But if
you look at the end of the season and you
have underachieved, and football coaches are more important and impactful
than baseball managers, and you go, Okay, is there a
better option? Chances are the answer is yes, and it
can't be OMG, We're gonna let Zach Taylor go because God,

(01:40:07):
someone else is gonn scoop him up, because don't think
that would be the case.

Speaker 5 (01:40:09):
Yeah, I just if you're going to change the roster,
then you have to change the coach because he's been
given the opportunity, and you're wasting the prime of transcendent talent.
I mean, you're not gonna walk into a burrow and
chase for a long time. And if you waste their
tenure waiting to see if Zach's gonna figure it out,

(01:40:30):
I mean, you and I have had the unenviable task
of bringing up the resume from UC before, we've had
the unambuble task of bringing up We talked over the
break ten and twenty one against the AFC North and
all the crappy slow starts yep, and the slow starts
and everything else. It's just it's not enough.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
Yeah, And look, I'll be the first to say I
think the job he did getting Jake Browning ready to
play last year was awesome. I think the job he
did game planning around a bad offensive line in the
playoffs in twenty twenty one was awesome. I'm not a
gratuitous beater upper of Zach Taylor, but if you have
a team that underachieves, and you have the most important
piece in place and that's not going anywhere, some stuff's

(01:41:12):
gotta change that. Maybe that's a lot of the roster.
How does it not include members of the coaching staff,
including the head coach himself.

Speaker 5 (01:41:22):
Yep, you can't exclude it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
I don't, and I hate that we're doing that. And
maybe in a month it's gonna sound silly that we're
doing that. But I hate that we're doing that now
because like I can't emphasize enough, like we're talking about
with the Bengals, can they get to five and four?
And can they sneak? And the idea was to win
the title when when they when they finished the Super
Bowl against the Rams nearly three years ago, the idea was,

(01:41:48):
over the next three years, ease that pain by doing better. Well,
they didn't the next year, they didn't last year, and
so far it doesn't look like they will this year.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
That's not good enough. That's not accept the ball for.

Speaker 5 (01:42:01):
A team whose goal is to win a championship.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
Joe Burrow was drafted in order to bring a championship here.
He was extended and paid because they believe he could
bring a championship here. That hasn't changed, so maybe some
other stuff has to.

Speaker 5 (01:42:13):
And the concepts not working have just built a dominant offense,
and you can get away with everything else. You can't
because the offense is dominant right now and they're one
and four, twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Seven away from six o'clock. Do some college football.

Speaker 5 (01:42:27):
Yes, what a weekend it was.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
It really was. We'll do that when we come back.
Tony and Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in Florence
on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
You've been listening to football in Thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty since in
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:42:49):
Deadlines are a service on Kelsey Chevrolet Home Up lifetime
powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to
yours for life, kelseyshev dot com News for Dax Hill,
Unfortunately he has a torn acl His twenty twenty four
season is over. Same for Jackson Kirkland toward his bicep

(01:43:09):
in the fourth quarter of yesterday's game. His twenty twenty
four season is over. The twenty twenty four season is
not over for the Bengals. No teetering on the brink, perhaps,
but not over. They're in East Rutherford, New Jersey on
Sunday night to take on the New York Giants, who
won in Seattle yesterday, Bengals on Sunday Night Football Live

(01:43:30):
on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game coverage starts at four
and kickoff is at eight to twenty. ESPN fifteen thirty.
Tonight has Monday Night Football Saints and Chiefs. Reds introduced
Terry Francona as the team's manager today, the last Reds
manager who comes to town having won the World Series.

(01:43:51):
Is the last Reds manager to advance in the postseason
with the Reds. Davy Johnson American League Division Series Game
two in Cleveland, Tigers and Guardians are scoreless, Cleveland batting
with a man in scoring position in the bottom of
the sixth inning. Yankees and Royals Game two later tonight,
Mark Stoop Show at six on ESPN fifteen thirty. Texas,

(01:44:13):
Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, Georgia one through five. In
the AP Top twenty five College Football Poll, the Indiana Hoosiers, who,
by the way, continue to make a lot of people money.
On Locks of the night, I U was up to eighteenth.
The college football weekend was college football season's been a blast, man.

(01:44:34):
You know I listened to Monday through Friday, people talk
about how college football's ruined, and then on Saturday, I
watch the games and I'm reminded it's not ruined. The
games are still so good. There's a degree of parody
in the sport, a degree, and with the college football playoff,
no one's out of it. I am loving this season.

Speaker 5 (01:44:55):
That's awesome, And Saturday was the latest installment.

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
I mean, you go up and down the list.

Speaker 5 (01:45:02):
Yeah, Alabama loses at Vanderbilt after beating Georgia the week before.
Tennessee goes to Arkansas and that offense puts up only
fourteen points.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
Which was all about Arkansas's defense.

Speaker 3 (01:45:14):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (01:45:15):
Miami overcomes a huge deficit insane late in the game
to come back and wint at cal texas A and
m thrashes the number nine rank Missouri Tigers.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
Michigan, and Washington play like three games in one.

Speaker 5 (01:45:28):
Yeah, Minnesota beat usc Yeah, like they're just from the
top down it is. It's so fun week to week
seeing what Boise and their running back are doing. One
hundred and eighty six yards in the first half, didn't
play in the second half. We mentioned this yesterday at
the Grail A little bit SMU is a good football team. Yep,

(01:45:49):
they go to Louisville and win. But there's so much
parody in college football team. Yeah, Gaveay undefeated.

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
Now in the top twenty five and zero.

Speaker 5 (01:46:03):
And it ushers in that week now that everyone has
circled since the college football schedule was announced. When you
look at all the big games that are coming up
this weekend Texas Oklahoma, the headliner for me at autin
Ohio State Oregon, because I don't think Dylan Gabriel has
been great yet. And I agree with you because I

(01:46:24):
asked you yesterday when I first saw Hi, I said,
if you were betting a significant amount of money, which
team are you picking to win the title? You and
I agree it's Ohio State. But at this point, as
good as Ohio State's been, they've yet to play anybody.
I mean, let's be honest, Oregon or Iowa was not
competition for them. My question about Ohio State is Will

(01:46:48):
Howard the guy? He's good, but can he elevate in
a game where they need to score points. They've got
a really good defense. I think this week's going to
be so telling about Ohio State. But and what a
fun time, right, now you see coming off a bye
with a huge one at UCF. Yeah, there's a lot,
a lot, a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:47:05):
To look forward to in college football.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
And one of the things, just on the sport in
twenty twenty four, there are a lot of folks who
because you know, let's say a game like Alabama and
Georgia for example, But but you could apply this to
Ohio State and Oregon. Well, yeah, you're gonna have these
teams that are probably still going to make the playoff,
and so the meaningfulness of these games is going to
be diluted. That hasn't been the case. Nope, hasn't been

(01:47:28):
the case at all. You mentioned the Bearcats. You said
this to me last week, this feels like the swing game.
By the way you see in the Bengals kind of
feel like they're in the same boat were Offensively, You've
got to be thrilled with where they are defensively, all
sorts of issues including injury. I know in Orlando they're
preparing for a hurricane. I don't know that as of

(01:47:49):
this point. That's something we worry about jeopardizing the game
on Saturday. But you see, if did cancel a lot
of athletic events during the week, so it's worth paying
attention to. If you win this one, understand, you have
to go to Ames and play Iowa State, which is
not going to be easy. You've got to go to
Manhattan play Kansas State, which is not going to be easy.
You've got to get a boulder, and Colorado has bounced

(01:48:09):
back nicely. But it does feel like if you win
this one, we can legitimately start to talk about them
at least achieving Bowl eligibility. If you lose this one
and you're three and three, I think the math gets
a little dicey.

Speaker 5 (01:48:23):
Yeah, it's gonna be hard, just based on the gut punch.
It would feel like because they've done so many good
things to lose that. But man, I look at this week.
It's weird. U c F lost three players this week.
Three or five players have now just walked away Iron Threats.
Is one of them their kicker, I believe just left.
I think this game is circled. I think the Dshaun

(01:48:45):
pace aspect of this makes it a little more fun.
Right now, you see as a three point favorite, but
you see coming out of a bye with a chance
to try to figure out these injuries, get them under
control and at the same time and trying to find
a way to plug what's going on. Defensively, I like
them better against a team that's not as dangerous in

(01:49:06):
the passing game because kJ Jefferson is not a great passer.
I like them better against a team that wants to
run the ball more so than than can spread you
out and throw it all over the field. But offensively
you feel great about him, and you now wonder, you
know what, uh well I do like I do, wonder
which running backs are available? Maybe get some answers tomorrow.
And right now feels like teetering a little bit. Ucf

(01:49:30):
with with that program. You got a chance to go
and take care of some business and completely put the
season back on track.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
Yeah, I said this to you, and I did a
segment on this at some point last week on my
show where I talked about the Texas Tech game. And
you know, you get accused of moral victory. It's not
moral victory. It's context. Last year when UC played Big
twelve schools, nothing against Houston, but when they a Big

(01:50:00):
twelve schools, there was a noticeable difference between the Big
twelve school and UC. Yep, Texas Tech might not be great,
not gonna win the league, but they're a big twelve school.
U s toe to toe, they look like a big
twelve school. Yep, that was a step they had to
take first. Now they've got to win some of those
games like the one in which they.

Speaker 5 (01:50:19):
Scored forty one points and we could go on Saturday
night kind of where the Bearcat basketball program has now
stepped two. Yeah, last year didn't feel like they were
outmatched in a lot of Big twelve games, but they
didn't find ways to win to whereas you see, Okay,
it doesn't feel like they're out match you still gotta
find ways to win some of these games. And again,
I am I've been bullish all along that this team

(01:50:39):
can get to six, maybe even seven. But if they
lose this weekend, you you really do start to to
concern a little bit about the possibility of that happening,
no doubt. And US a beatable team. Yes, by the way,
that Texas Tech team did go to Arizona, yeah and win,
and Arizona beat Utah. So Texas Texas good football team, man,

(01:51:02):
and uh, you get a chance to beat them on
the road at their place, and I like the way
they did it. They battled back multiple times, their backs
were against the wall. It felt like the game had
slipped away, and they continued to battle. They come up short.
But I know you don't want to take the moral
victories like we just talked about, But it feels like
there's still a lot you can learn from a game

(01:51:24):
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
Yeah, I think you win this one. And then you
look at the back half of the schedule. Arizona's here.
The next game, by the.

Speaker 5 (01:51:30):
Way, be we just don't play night games anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
At Colorado is win a ball, there'll be dogs in it.
West Virginia is winnable. TCU is winnable. No, that's not mean,
doesn't mean they're going to win the game, right, I
look at I was staying in Kansas State on the road.

Speaker 5 (01:51:53):
Is but game tough games going in where you can
talk and avenue of how they win.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
Yeah, sure, and so oh come out of this one
at four and two, then it's major. It's a major
disappointment if you're not a bowl team. Correct, lose this one,
and you know, then the margin for aerosh ins drumatic.

Speaker 5 (01:52:10):
The mass starts to change. Yeah, significantly, Yeah, no question
about that. But a fun weekend of college football coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
Fun weeknd of college football coming up, and uh, we'll
be in Orlando for it. Man, I believe the last
time you were in Orlando with me was.

Speaker 3 (01:52:24):
The game game day.

Speaker 5 (01:52:25):
Game Day was there and man, it literally it was
my It was my first time experiencing on the field level. Yeah,
that place does bounce.

Speaker 2 (01:52:37):
That is a cool place. It when they're when they're good.

Speaker 3 (01:52:40):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
Uh and they were that year that that is game
Day was there for a reason. It's a cool place.
And by the way, just reading some stuff in Orlando today,
they refer to this as a rivalry, like and you
see if they refer to this as a rivalry players. Yeah,
so I think there's gonna be high level of expectation
for this game on Saturday. Obviously they're gonna get tons

(01:53:05):
of rain and hurricane conditions during the week and hopefully
that doesn't do anything beyond just you know, the human
part of hoping everybody's okay, that doesn't do anything to
jeopardize the game on Saturday. I'm losing my voice. It's
a lot. I don't know what happened to me.

Speaker 3 (01:53:20):
It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:53:21):
Gotta get it ready for tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:53:22):
It's crazy. We could have uh.

Speaker 5 (01:53:24):
Probably won another three hours discussing yesterday's the backle.

Speaker 3 (01:53:27):
Yep, you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:53:28):
Beat the Giants. There we go, be favored against Cleveland.

Speaker 3 (01:53:31):
You always find a way to bring it back.

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
Here we go.

Speaker 5 (01:53:34):
Yankees are royals tonight like Kansas City. Yeah, I do
like Bobby Wood Junior. Uh huh, Metro Phillies. Met's gave
one away yesterday they did.

Speaker 3 (01:53:44):
Yeah, but I'm believing in him. I love the baseball playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
I do too. All Right, we're done. Tito gonna get
us there in twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
We're gonna be better.

Speaker 5 (01:53:59):
I just want to play meaningful baseball. Man, it looks
so much.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
I just want to play in October. Yep, that's it,
all right.

Speaker 5 (01:54:05):
These slow starts wouldn't hurt us as much.

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
Thanks to our guy about UC Basketball, Mike Mills for
producing on site, of course, tearing back, and Kenwood. Thanks
to the staff here at Twin Peaks. We're back in
Florence a week from today. Hopefully we'll see you then.
Have a great night. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports station.

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