October 8, 2024 • 41 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss why the Bengals have a poor defense and how they can fix it. We also discussed Zac Taylor's late-game decision-making in the Cincinnati loss to Baltimore, decisions to be made with the trade deadline being the most important thing happening in America on November 5th, and #Punts4Pizza.
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Instagram too: @MoEgger
Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Follow on X: @MoEgger
Instagram too: @MoEgger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And sin.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Prime time coverage starts Sunday at four on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right, what's up? Can I for noon? Mollwegger? This
is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We are because it's Tuesday, broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wings.
We're in Milford. We're in Milford. Sorry, I had to
do it at least once. We're here till six o'clock.
Tuesdays at beat ups mean buy one, get one half
off Traditional Wings. We've got bud Light specials. We've got
the cooler. It's staring at me. It's right here. We
(00:35):
give away this cooler half the time we give away
Bengals tickets. Half the time we give away this bud
Light Bengals cooler. Last week we had people who are
willing to buy it off the person who won it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So you either get an awesome cooler or you can
put it up forbid. Whatever. We've got some.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Cool Bengals, bud Light swag, and so much more. We're
here till six o'clock. Obviously, if you know anything about
the Milford area, you know this place is right off
I two seventy five.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We are here till six o'clock.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's a cool place if you want to watch the
two baseball games this afternoon and tonight. Obviously you know
b Dubs, a billion TVs A billion beers.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a blast. Come on out.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
If you can't be here this afternoon, maybe swing by
tonight and take advantage of buy one, Get one half
of Traditional Wings.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Paul Danner Junior is here. What's up. You probably wish
that that old school logo that you like so much
from the Bengals is on the side of that cooler.
It's just got it has their current logo.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I do wish, Yes, you love the old school I
do logo that I don't like. I do the one
where the helmet for some reason is popping off of
a tiger who's running and has the other old logo
on the helmet.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, just be repetitive.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Every summer I buy a new Bengals hat for the season,
and I found.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
One with that logo on it.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I was at the game on Sunday and I
was in the men's room and I'm washing my hands
and I, you know, ever catch yourself in the mirror
and I see like I catch the hat, and I'm
like God, you know what, that really doesn't look like anything.
It looks like an abstract painting with a bunch of
orange and white and some black.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
There's too many details involved for to be a logo.
I just it, that's all. But I just I saw
that because I like the look of that, and yeah,
turn you get the two you got clean?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, it's clean, you got you have the two different
logos on that, And I thought, you know, I know
what you'd want.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Okay, well let's start with that while we're talking about aesthetics. Yeah,
let's make sure never ever, ever again, we go blacktops.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Orange pants, no question.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I am a fan of every other Bengals uniform combination. Yeah,
and I'm open minded and like with all of them,
I'm want to see him in person. I walked into
the stadium at about twenty minutes until one o'clock and
the players come out for warm ups. They introduced the defense,
and the first thing I thought was, does Hanford Dixon
play for the Bengals like.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Webster Slaughter? Like, what do we That's not a good look.
We just ace that one.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah, No, I mean there was I was you wish
you had Eric Metcalf, that'd be fine. You touchdown, Tommy,
Tommy var Now, they probably could have used anybody that
played defensive tackle for the Browns back in the old days.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
But but I'll say this, I always.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Go with something that's a new uniform, commos when then
you see for the first time. I am a gut
instinct person. The way you felt in the first three
seconds of seeing it is how you should feel about it.
And the first three seconds of feeling it, I said, gross,
looks like the Browns And that was sort of.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
My my feeling.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I didn't try to analyze it any further than that
and be done with it.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And like, I'm the guy who wants them to lean
into orange more so the all you orange uniforms terrific,
white top orange pants awesome. My big takeaway from that
game on Sunday, despite all the controversy involving coaching decisions,
despite all the angst about the defense, blacktop orange pants
eighty six, that bad.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Boy, no more need for that one. Now, I'm with
you on that one.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You wrote this, Okay, I'm gonna read it from a
passage of your piece.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
He didn't call it one of my little articles summer
the Athletic Doc Tom he.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Wrote this passage, and in the focus of the piece
for those who have ever read it, and I encourage
you to, is where the Bengals are offensively and why
that should that should engender at least some degree of
optimism for what's in a very bague spot. Yeah, I
mean one and four is not good, but the offense
is absolutely cooking. And to me, the thing I focus
on most is the offense is healthy.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But you wrote this passage.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That's not saying the Bengals should or will win those games,
Jacobe were said in the otherwise winless Patriots chuckle at
the notion. But the Bengals defense doesn't need to be
great or even good when the offense plays at such
an elite level. It just needs to be not a
horrendous liability. That's where things are.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's where we are, that's where things are.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Don't don't be a horrendous liability. Yes man, how things
have fallen. Two and a half years ago, the defense
was carrying it two within an eyelash of the Super Bowl,
and now just don't be a horrendous liability. Yes, So
I've got a number I'm gonna throw at you in
a little bit, Okay, but just speak to that first.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's where we are well, because that's all that is
the baseline of what a defense on the other side
of any offense playing at the Bengals current level has
to be to assure that you will win a vast
majority of your games.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It is really.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Hard and in fact, does I detail on that piece,
pretty much unprecedented for an I'm sorry not pretty much
absolutely unprecedented this century for a team to play at
that offensive level and only have won one game.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's just not something that happens.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So you just need it to not be total awfulness, right,
and so that is all that it takes.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, it can grow to more. To me, it's more
like again.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
And we've been talking a lot about this in recent weeks,
buying time for something to happen, right, like something, whether
it be a scheme shift that clicks, whether it be
a young player that emerges, whether it's just health of
this defensive line that has been you know, a part
of some of the issues, certainly a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Whatever that is. You know, you're just trying to buy time.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
This group is currently constructed, even in its kind of
one of its best forms isn't winning the games in
January that you want to win. The hopes, the hope
is that it can get itself by that point to
a level that's okay enough that you have the elite.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Offense that continues to win you games. You just got
to now. You just got to get there. Now.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
It's just about how is there a path to get there.
You're not thinking about the division, You're not thinking about
beating the Chiefs to Narrowhead. You are thinking of how
the heck do you get in a tournament at this point?
And that's how you get in a tournament is you
get this thing that you have that is this anvila
on this team's back right now, which is this defense,
and getting it to lighten the load so they can
run a little bit. And that means taking advantage of
(06:55):
some teams that aren't as offensively elite as a couple
that they face and Washington and Baltimore, who are the
two of the best them in the Bengals the three
best offenses in the league by the numbers right now,
and just get it to a level that feels more comfortable, honestly,
like what you saw when they played Carolina and New
England and Kansas city, you know where it's like, Okay,
they made enough, they made enough plays for the offense
(07:16):
to go win you those games. That's what you needed
to look like. And I think that's possible. I don't.
I don't think the defense is as bad as certainly
everybody feels right now, because I think that Baltimore and
Washington do exacerbate the problem. That's a bad matchup. Man,
(07:39):
they were not equipped for any of that, and they
knew it. That's why they blitzed forty one times hoping
that something good happened.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Right, And so.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
To me, I think they can be a little bit
more equipped to be okayish, and that's what they need
because offenses that play at the current level the Bengals
are playing at don't lose games. They don't lose a
lot of that's just the nature of the NFL that
has not changed and it won't change going forward. So
to me, that's where it all starts, and there can
(08:09):
be hope in that because they they don't play they
play Baltimore again, yeahly and Okay, Philly offense and the
rest of them are not necessarily very good offense.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The thing is like, but you can't bank on that.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
No, that's the thing I hate defaulting to right or
putting too much stock in boy, the other team's gonna stink,
you know. I mean I could say, well, you know,
the Giants without Molik neighbors go to the West Coast
and kind of did what they wanted offensively against Seattle.
So in New York they're feeling pretty good about this
matchup on Sunday. I know what we all do, and
I've been guilty of doing it. I did on your
(08:41):
podcast this morning. Well, let's go back in time and
relitigate things like Jesse Bates, you talk about what they
could have done or it's advanced the conversation and get
rid of lou Ana Rumo and see if Robert Salad
can coach the defense on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's not gonna happen. What I want to know is
how do they fix it?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And how do they fix it that to the point
that the defense is playing at a level that is
passable and is good enough to take advantage of an
offense that is doing exactly what we all thought it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Could do more pass rush.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
You know, it's the thing that they have lacked, and
I think some of what Luanna Roumo did against Baltimore
is part of.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
The answer to just be more aggressive.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Lamar is gonna do that, right, like some quarterbacks that
you blitz them and it's just not fruitful. Talk about
what you saw Baltimore did Burrow right after this first couple.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
He goes five or five for.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
One hundred yards two touchdowns against the Blitzkay, like, there's
some correction you want to do to Lamar is one
of those.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
But they were kind of at options like, I don't know, man,
maybe we just blitz them a bunch. And so I
do think that that can still work.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I do think that you can just say, hey, go
a little old school wink Martindale, right, and just say
let's just bring a bunch of pressure because we have
to get it somehow, and hope that it creates a
turnover or to and with an understanding that, look, we're
probably gonna give up touchdowns anyway, so why not try
to force the issue a little bit. That said, I
(10:08):
think you can find the hope there being that looked
I thought Sam Hubbard looked healthier, and when we talked
to him after was notably different in his tone.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Talking about how healthy he felt out there. For the
first time.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought this was after he pulled himself off the turf,
when Lamar Jackson at least he was able to chase
him down and get his hands on him, right, Sam,
from the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's true. True, that's true.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
But you're by the way, there's a long list of
Lamar Jackson does that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Does that too, no question what it's not it. There's
a highlight reel with a lot of those, and he
can join the vigil.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
But I think I thought that was encouraging at least
in terms he made some plays in that game we
hadn't seen him play, and with Miles Murphy there, who again,
I feel like you saw a little bit from in.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
His first Sure that.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
A build on It hasn't changed that the rookies still
have the young players still have to be the difference here.
Their progress was what this team was banking on before
the season started.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It has failed them to this point.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
It's still what they're banking on now is guys like
DJ Turner was Dax Hill is, guys like Cam Taylor, Britt,
Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins. That that's what the way they
built this thing, and that's why it's been a house
of cards is because it's built around the progress of
young players had to be the key. They haven't seen
it to this point. I don't think that you can
write those players off. Certainly not a guy like Miles Murphy,
(11:33):
who you just saw him in his first game this
year after a solid enough rookie season.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
A combination of him and Hubbard together I think is
a nice fit.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Okay, where Murphy's in there on all your pass rush situations,
Hubbard's and there is your early downs guy who's more
and that gives you more the run stop stuff, and
a decent combination. You paid Sheldon Rankin's a bunch of
money to show up and get out of the passer.
Him coming back healthy next to bj Hill, you hope
can give you a little bit more pass rush too.
(12:05):
If you're more aggressive with blitzing and recognizing that's how
you have to play, that that can give you that
element that you've just so badly been missing. That doesn't
change anything that's been happening in terms of third downs
with guys running wide open and free and miscommunication whatever
it is, or just maybe they're maybe they're communicating, they're
just not getting there now, right, Yeah, there's a happy
(12:27):
medium where you can you have somebody back there that
can communicate and be fast enough to get there.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Right Theoretically, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So here's what I'm gonna do, at least at the
home games. You know how when you go to like
a Reds game, they've got that thing in the bleachers
where you hang the keys and then after ten of them,
everybody gets like a free pizza.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
The Bengals should do that with opposing punts.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
So the last four games they have forced seven punts. Yeah, combined,
that's not good. First game they forced five was good
enough to win. Offense was a problem against New England.
So the average game, each team or eight team gets
eleven possessions. I'm using twenty twenty two numbers. Couldn't find
it for twenty twenty three. Didn't feel like doing the
(13:09):
math on my own. In twenty twenty two, teams average
ten point nine possessions per game, so eleven. If in
those eleven possessions the Bengals can force four punts, they
will win.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and so what we should do the punt meter pete, Yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
If it gets to four, everybody wins something I don't know,
and the Bengals will win that game with this offense.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Four punts will do it. It beat nice if they
got to.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Turnover, you know, got a turnover on downs if a
team goes forward on four that sort of thing. Bengals
were awful on third down. Ten to fifteen, four punts.
That's the magic number.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
You've been in Great American ballpark. Win you know you
have one of these when they're that ten ks. Yeah,
the place is the absolute bed PANAMOI chanting pizza. Like everything,
you get a good promotion connected with Yes, maybe not
as good as the Penn Station one that blew up
on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that was That was
a good promotion that people are like, I'm getting free something, right.
(14:11):
Imagine how loud it will be once they forced three
punts and you need that fourth punt at the end
of a game.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You want to elicit bedlam from that crowd as well. Dude,
punts for pizza. This is not for pizza. This is
it's really not hard. I feel I feel like.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You go for the punt number we have it's one quarter,
it's one a quarter, one quarter.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Bengals will win with this offense. I don't see anything,
so you know how.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Like you'll hear like, oh, you know, here's this team's
record when they uh when they run for one hundred
yards or when this running back gets twenty five carries.
Like there's always that, right, So I'm gonna start charting
the Bengals record moving forward. When the opposing punters on
the field for four kicks.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
I love this, And you know what, congratulations you just
you solve problems here.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They got to get there the whole. I know it's
not easy.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
The hard part is when it's the third quarter and
the other tw he has scored like thirty one points
and you look up and you just see that lone p.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's been hanging up there, blown in the winds. The problem. Yeah, no, no,
no doubt. A sad visual.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, I feel like I've I've looked up and it's
ten to two and there's one strikeout. There's one k
out there unless field puns for pizza. Get it done,
get it. I know the Bengals marketing department listens. So
here's a free idea for you. Look, I could be
involved if you want, like all man Man the py
corner or whatever we call it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Don't call it that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I think I think that's right. You can put your
face on it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
I mean, can we get maybe it's just four big
pictures of your face.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You could get like Huber, Brad Robbins, Drew Christ behaving
weirdly on social media, so maybe maybe.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
He's not all three Yeah, all three that were in camp.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Right, Yeah, we could all get together and just puns
for pizza.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, Lee Johns, Lee Johnson, Yeah, I love it. Every
punter in their.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
History, Lee Johnson, Kyle Larson, Kevin Huper, some other guys, yeah,
some other guys.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, just there. It is the way to deliver the
idea guy. You are the idea guy.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Can you imagine, like it's third down, the defenses on
the field, there's three punts already, It's like third and eight, right,
here comes Russell Wilson or whoever's playing for the Steelers,
and it's like, man, they force a punt here. Yeah,
and oh Bedlam Yeah, might be thirty eight ten in
favor of the other team, but Bedlam.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Huber's face is definitely on the fourth punt card without question.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean the guy it's twenty minutes after three
o'clock He's Paul Dayner Junior, who covers the Bengals for
the Athletic host of the Growler Podcast. Latest episode Baalds
Don't Lie Out Today And Uh, I.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Got a lot off my chest on that podcast. That
was fun.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Have you felt like you've been getting enough off your
chest over the last thirty six hours?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, Yeah, it seemed like yesterday was a pretty cathartic show.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
For you, kind of yeah, yeah, you and everyone else.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Tony and Mo Football Show. We rebranded to the Two
Angry Guys. We've ever done that before with more success
than us. Twenty one after three, we're at Buffalo Wild
Wings and Milford.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
He's Paul here till four.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I'm Mulleger here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Twenty seven after three, We're at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Paul Danner Juniors here. A couple of quick things while
we're on the defense. Uh, Jordan Battle got his opportunity
on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You didn't go super Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean I think that's sometimes you, you know, you
ask and you why is why is this happening?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And then you quickly find out we have our answer
we have our answer. Yeah, but you know the thing is,
it's that's where they're at. They're like, we'll give them
a chance.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Oh I don't blame them, but when they put them
out there, I kind of nod and went, yeah, okay,
now now we understand one.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, immediately immediately go after him. And it's just it's
it's not great. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
No, there's not been much good that has been happening
around Jordan battle and and that kind of cemented it,
I think.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
A little bit. But they're gonna they're gonna keep giving anybody.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I mean, if you notice, I mean they were trotting
everybody else. Yes, and they said they wanted to keep
guys fresh. Yeah, they also are looking for anybody that
can give a glimmer of hope that they could.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Give him something.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Is there a sense that Mike hilton injury could be
something that last few weeks.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I haven't necessarily gotten that. I thought that there was.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
They were still kind of keeping some hope alive at
the end of last week, even though it always looked
like it probably wasn't gonna happen. So that makes me
think that there's a chance. I think they're hopeful that
he'll be back this week, but again that's something to monitor,
especially with obviously with the Dax Hiltie.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, the Dak's Hill injury stinks for a lot of
different reasons. But I guess part of the fallout is
the decision about what to do with him this offseason
fifth year option.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, and I have not, truthfully not spoken with anybody
specifically about that decision, so I don't know where they
stand on it, but to me, they were you know,
I talked to some people in the building that talked
about how that injury they took as hard as almost
(19:26):
any they've had here because they felt there was a
lot of pride into what Dax had done, not just
that he was playing okay, yeah, you know, but how
he handled a really hard situation of it and what's
been a hard situation since he got here of maybe,
you know, having to learn the hard way that potentially
(19:49):
maybe he's miscast and here are a lot of people
taking shots at him, including people in the building, and
they gave him tough conversations and then they put him
through the whole off season of we don't know if
you'll move, maybe you'll stay, who knows, And then they
go through the draft and he took it all and
really attacked whatever they wanted to give him. He wanted
to be the good team guy and do the right thing,
(20:09):
and he did it right. He got better at it,
he kept working at it. It mattered to him, and
he went out there and he was the most consistent
guy through the first five weeks of this season. And
to see that, everybody felt very positive about him as
a player find having found his spot. I think they
feel like he found his spot there at outside corner
(20:31):
and potentially a slot. You know, you watched that first
couple of series there where he went for you and
you said, okay, yeah, you knew why that was potentially
maybe his end game here in the league because you
could see that being a thing maybe for him. So
for that reason, I would lean to that they would
exercise fifty option and feel like there's a real bright
(20:52):
feature for her.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I feel like over the last nine months from a
football perspective, he's checked every box. Yeah, and so if
you believe the injury is not going to be something
that causes long term concern and you think he's going
to recover and get back to one hundred percent, I
don't know why that would be a player that you
(21:13):
would decline the fifth year option on.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, I don't, and that's why I don't think. I
think now before this season, sure you would have said
I don't see any way they do it right. But
I think the way he handled it and the way
he played, absolutely it seems like one that.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They would do.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
But a lot of decisions have to be made between
that one then, and trying to predict their decisions isn't
always the.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Let's work on the punts for peace I first, and
then we'll worry about picking up down Hills fift year option.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
All right.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I want to know what if you think when we
come back, what Zach Taylor's life is like, if he
operates worrying about the worst thing that could happen at
every turn, We'll do.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That when we come back. He's Paula Junior.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I'm like, we're here at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford
on ESP fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. Do we want to
move on for doctor Keith Gordon and Boston Elmore.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think you should continue to let me keep going.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Now Sincy three sixty Tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Cincinnati's eaton.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Sports headlines are reservice of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime
power training, protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life Kelsey chev dot Com.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Bengals made it official.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Dax Hill and Jackson Kirkland go on IR, both with
injuries they suffered on Sunday, Dax and Mee Jackson a
biceps injury. Cincinnati signing tackle Andrew Stuber to the active
roster off Atlanta's practice squad. He is a first year
player from Michigan who was taken by the Patriots in
the seventh round of twenty twenty two. Spent most of
(22:53):
his season on the reserve non football injury list. Was
on the Patriots practice squad four twenty twenty three, but
the first five game of this season on the Falcons
practice squad.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
He got to be teammates with Jesse Bates, which is
kind of cool.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Cincinnati also signed quarterback Mike Abram to the practice squad.
He is a rookie from Marshall's sixth round pick of
Indian this year's draft, waived by the Coldster and Cuts
was not with an NFL team during the first five weeks.
Bengals Giants Sunday Night, eight twenty live on ESPN fifteen
thirty Jets A fired head coach Robert Sala. The Reds
have gotten rid of their three hitting coaches. Did you
(23:25):
know the Reds had three hitting coaches?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I did when when that news came out and you
tweeted it. Had no idea? Yeah, amazing. I followed this
team religiously.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
I was thinking about it because I heard you guys
talking about this on the way over, and I thought,
maybe they run it on like you know how you
always hear about the guy who's in the cage at
three am.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Maybe they run in three eight hour shifts.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Oh right, And so it's like from from noon to
eight pm they have one guy and then they have
a grave yard shift guy and a morning guy. Okay,
you know, just someone's always there, just standing by the
door to unlock the cage.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
You know, thought, get like one guy throws batting practice,
one guy puts the ball on the tee. Yeah, and
the other guy's in charge of flip drills.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
I don't know, maybe somebody is like exceptional at the
flip drill. They had him in and they just flip right,
and so you just you gotta have that guy.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Also, reportedly, UH pitching coach and director of Pitching Derek
Johnson will return. U UC basketball news Wes Miller confirms
that Tyler McKinley, the freshman from Winton Woods, is going
to miss this season.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
With a tour acl.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Uh more on UC coming up in the four o'clock hour.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Paul Danner, junior from the Athletics.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Here, we're Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford here till six o'clock.
We've got buy one half, buy one, get one half off,
Traditional Wings, bud Light specials, and so much more. Do
you believe that Joe Burrow called a run play in overtime?
First and ten? Do you believe that?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I do? I don't.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I don't know why, especially in the immediate aftermath of
a game, there would be a lie about that. I
just it was because again, you're talking off the field
into the locker room up to the press conference, asked
about it, boom fires that fer like it was.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It didn't.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
It didn't even feel like there was even necessarily time
to be like, oh, this is gonna be beneficial for me
to lie about this, and so for that fact, I
felt like he was just.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Kind of firing off the truth there.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
So yeah, I do think that's the case. But I
get you're right, I mean, you don't. It's hard to
just repruding this doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah,
I did it, But it could be a simple it
could be a simple you know, look or whatever to
the back, you know, where you're going off of a
(25:51):
play action and just saying looking at it.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Who knows, But that's my I just for that fact.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
You and I are not totally aligned when it comes
to the.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Handling of overtime.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And that's okay, Yeah, that's fine. And look, I said
this on your podcast. I'm the first to admit there
are a lot of head coaches and a lot of
quarterbacks who would have handled that situation in ot after
the gift fumble in field goal range, would have handled
it exactly the same way.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I recognize that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And if Ryan Rico gets the whole down, chances are
Evan makes that kick, the Bengals win, and.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
We're not really focusing on that. I recognize all that.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
What I don't like is making decisions based primarily on
the worst thing that can happen. Right, Yes, when Zach
Taylor walks to his car in the morning, is he
like a tree might fall on me.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I don't know, right, a tree might fall on me,
But no, he walks to his car, Well, the car,
the car might break down.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
On the way to this date, And like, what if
There's a lot of bad things that can happen to.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
You, but you still make what if the last two
times he walked to his car a.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Tree did fall on him a helmet. I think that's
what that was. I think that.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Conservative approach was him putting on a helmet with anna
fall off. I have a tree in my backyard. I
have seen multiple giant branches. Anytime the wind blows a
little too much come falling out of this tree and
land in my backyard. And and I'm like, man, thank goodness,
I wasn't back there. So when it gets windy, now
(27:26):
you know what I don't do, go stand under the tree.
The last two times Joe Burrow was under center, he
threw an interception right and then he got sacked right
up the middle. Okay, And yes, I'm not personally gonna
go back to last week. Zach Taylor did reference last
week in Carolina for a minute drill. The game is
(27:48):
basically over. They get a holding call on Orlando Brown
on the backside of a call. I look at the
previous two because we reference how good they were that day,
and they were obviously unbelievable, But the literal last two
times they they were in that situation, it was something
that we're like, oh, tip your tip your captain, Marlin
(28:08):
Humphrey Burrow to chase easy slant that should be just
like candy from a baby, and it wasn't. And then
they get back there and all of a sudden, this
blitz comes up the middle that they a game they
couldn't stop. Tip your cap to the Ravens. Right, you're
in field goal range. You just paid Evan McPherson for
what reason. He is unbelievably clutch and has a huge leg.
(28:29):
That is the That is what sets him apart from
almost anybody that they've had here. And so when you
have those three factors, I get being apprehensive about dropping
back to throw. When you have Evan in more than
good enough field goal range, Hey, you're allowed to gain
yards on the run. I understand that you're probably not
going too into that box. And so those factors to me,
(28:54):
do stand down. I feel like that gets everybody's Oh
but Burrows, just you gotta he's never gonna make the
last two times. I get that being in the back
of your head when it just happened, you know, So
I to me, that's the difference. And I say, you
also paid Evan a lot of money so that you
can have that calm peace of mind when you're on
the thirty whatever, thirty five and say this, he's he's
(29:19):
good like he's Evan McPherson, and that's why we have him.
And I feel great about this. He's well within his range.
He kicks it into the net from sixty. I feel
okay about it. I understand. I understand the need to
be more aggressive. I understand different types of shots you
can take. But I also really feel like those last
two plays that happened didn't not happen. So I just
(29:41):
I look at that and say, I understand that being
in the back of your head at that point when
you feel like you have the game won.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I hear this often. Well, you know there could have
been a holding penalty. Correct me if I'm wrong. They
throw flags on running plays.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
They do, okay, yeah, so like that.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Well, the holding penalty thing, to me is kind of
a is kind of an outside throw away. But I
think there's types of runs that are more conducive to
holding penalties.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Types they ran or not downhill push them.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
So to me, if it's let's say it's third and ten,
balls in the same spot, Okay, we've tried two pass plays,
let's we have no shot, our next play is going
to be a field goal.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Or if we lose a lot of yards third and ten,
no issue with it. Like by the time it.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Got the third down, I said out loud, like a right, okay,
give it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Or kick it now?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
And I mean, look whatever, yeah, fine, But if you're
telling me I can throw, I can have Joe drop
back three times. Is there a good chance that the
net of that is zero yards? Yes, maybe it's three incompletions,
maybe it's a sack, and then the next pass they
gain eight and it's third and nine.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
The last few times he was out there, the net
was worse than zero.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
But I mean, like, I get, I understand, No, I
I trust me, I get I wouldn't no one would
have a problem with Joe dropping back to throw there.
But when you feel like you have the game absolutely
where you want it, and it's over, and what just
happened that it's It's one thing if that had not happened,
you know, but it's so fresh. Baltimore obviously had started
(31:22):
to anticipate some things and and figure a couple of
things out on the last two drives. I'm just saying,
having that in your head, when you feel like you've
got the game is I get it. I get that part.
I think first and ten, I want him throwing.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I don't want them to discount which has happened, because
that's irresponsible. Like everything that happens in a game is information.
Like so I understand that. I just and you are
right about Evan McPherson. Man like Joe Burrow was my
meal ticket if I'm a play caller, if I'm a
head coach, that's my meal ticket.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
He he was the meal ticket to get him to
that point. He didn't need to serve any more meals. Yeah,
like to me, to me, he didn't need him.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
To serve any more meals. I just but I I
know nothing is automatic for fifty three and.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I'm the first one. I'm always I'm always thinking that,
especially when you watch college, right, it's like, right, the
last thing you ever do.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know. But to me, that's the difference.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
That's the difference in having a guy like Evan paying
a guy like Evan in that spot.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
How many times have you seen him.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Make the clutch kick? You just say, Okay, believe in
Evan McPherson. Fifty three is not long for him, you know,
and and and you believe in that, believe in that
guy that you paid too, and that it's not even
gonna make that much of a difference whether it's feel
forty three versus fifty three. He's either gonna hit it
straight or he's not. Yeah, but I get I trust me.
(32:46):
I'm certainly not here saying like, no, this is clear cut.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
I think there's been a ton directed at that sequence.
Sure like it blew the entire game. To me, it's
it is grievance eleven out of I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, I mean, to me, the big takeaway was this
defense is a train wreck.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I can't trust it.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
And the ceiling for this team is lower than I
thought it was back in July because they can't really
stop anybody, and they can't finish and they can't finish games,
which you wrote about like I could not agree more.
But I think that the sequence that's easiest to litigate,
which we all like to do, is the overtime. But sure,
on a thirty thousand foot scale, the defense is terrible, rible,
(33:31):
And if that doesn't change, then what this team can
accomplish even with this offense cooking right now is very,
very limited. We got to step away. I have more questions. Yeah, yeah,
I have more questions.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I'm here here.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I want to explore what we could be talking about
four weeks from today. Yeah, and then uh well right, yes,
not the election, trade deadline, trade down.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm here for trade deadline right twelve away from four o'clock.
He's Paul Danner Junior with his for another segment.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I'm here till six Milford Buffalo Wild Wings on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Autumn is in the air,
and like the leaves, prices are fun.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Downs and they're engraving the Ilary O'Brien Trophy.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
It's what's happening in the NBA. It's seven away from
four o'clock. Then a few minutes with our friend Paul
Dane or Junior. We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford.
Four weeks from today. The most significant thing happening in
the United States so America will be the NFL trade deadline,
which comes and goes if they haven't changed it at
four o'clock on that Tuesday. Bengals have four games between
(34:33):
now and then, so to me, it's cut and dry.
They're either going to be in it or out of it.
I don't think we're gonna be doing what we're doing now,
which is what we we've gone from last week.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Like man, big big game.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
You can't go one and four to now, like you know,
they can crawl their way back to five hundred and
then be five like we're doing it on Election Day.
On trade deadline day, they will either be in it
or out of it as it relates to either making
their team better for the stretch stretch drive or punting
and and and pointing the arrow toward twenty twenty five.
(35:09):
So let's let's first talk about this team. Maybe they're
four and five, Yeah, going to Baltimore, which I think
I would take. I take that four and five. They're
in it, They're in the mix. Yeah, Are they gonna
be buyers. Go get some help, get some guys who
can help on the pass rush, find a safety.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
No, I look, I can only go off history. We
can only go off what we know of the people
making these decisions.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I mean, I always.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Revert back to twenty nineteen when it could not have
been clearer.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, right, of this is the prime. Okay, you need
to sell now, aj G. You known't the Blackburns in
Switzerland or something. I think they were Switzerland, It was not.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
It was a situation where they didn't have a win, right,
they were coming back from London. It was like they
there was no It was as clear cut as it
gets clear cut, and the focus of the organization at
the top at that point was just try to win
games this year and address.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
The off season and the offseason essentially. Now, maybe there's
lessons from that.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
They maybe there's looking back in retrospect and they have
changed since since and when Burrow came a lot of
things changed, right, So perhaps we've also seen trade deadlines
come and go since then, and they have had the
ability to go acquire to add on teams that had
Super Bowl aspirations and go a little bit more all.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
In and not done.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
That they have shown no desire to trade draft picks,
so we know that is probably off table.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So we talk about assets they have, What do they have?
You know?
Speaker 4 (36:44):
So you get into these types of situations and I
feel like all I can do is go off of
what we know of the people making the decisions and
when they have been in the position to make these
decisions in the past, and almost across the board have
opted to sit on their hands. So do I think
that that's gonna happen. No, I don't think that that's
(37:05):
gonna happen. I'm certainly not gonna sit here like, oh, definitely,
they're gonna go get a big time defensive tackle. But
if and yes, everybody's sitting here saying, of course they
need to go get defensive help, it's gonna be so
clear you might be able to make a run if
you could get somebody to come in. Other teams will
make deals as well. I just I can't see it.
(37:27):
Maybe they surprise us, maybe this is the last box
they check on. That thing's gonna been different under Joe Burrow.
I just don't see that coming. Knowing what they their
view on this type of trade, deadline, that whole era
area is I just I just don't see it all right.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
So let's say things bottom out and they don't turn
it around, and we're sitting here four weeks from today
and the team's record is not good enough for them
to legitimately make a run. Let's say six two and
sex the right let me which I can't fathom as
bad as things have been, but let's they don't turn
(38:06):
it around their two and seven? Are they in cell mode?
Everybody's gonna bring up T Higgins, Well, it should be considered.
I know, I know you talked about five years ago
at twenty nineteen. You know they will win list in sell.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
I think it's a similar conversation. I think they're still
gonna say, look, we could run the table, right. I mean,
I'm just I'm just telling you. This is I'm telling
you what you're gonna hear.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Okay, they got to.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
As long as there's a chance and hopes alive, they're
gonna They're gonna try to have their best team go
out there.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The the obvious big picture.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
They never wanted to feel like they waved the white
flag on a season ever.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Ever, Even if they need to tank for Joe Burrow
in Miami.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Ever, Okay, and so that is gonna be the ultimate
waving of the white flag. Now, will t be somebody
in his camp that would decide it's time to push
some of those buttons? What will Jamar Chase's reaction be
if this team is two and seven? Not saying he's
gonna demand a trade, but what is that vibe like
(39:09):
at that point in the entire locker across the locker room.
But I would say t is obviously the one where
you would start where you know, you know he's not
a part of your future theoretically, h So are you
gonna get something for him or not? I still I
talk about that the same way I just talked about
the other side of it. I still think it's a
it's a thing where they don't make the move, they
don't want to wave the white flag and wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It would surprise me. It's not impossible. It would just
be very very out of character.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, well, I think I know people want I know
I know, and I'm not saying I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I'm not saying that they shouldn't feel pressured to do it.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
They obviously should obviously, but I can only go by
what we know.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
To me, of those two scenarios, the one that is
more difficult to digest as a fan is you've played
yourself back into it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You still know you're flawed, and you don't do anything
to address those flaws.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, because they could, they could jump back into things
and be they could be five and four. They can
win their next four games going to Baltimore. It doesn't
mean that all the stuff is fixed. It means that
guys are playing better. It means the defense has performed better.
It probably means the offense has continued to perform at
a very high rate. But the idea of having a
shot in early November, the trade deadline comes and goes
(40:25):
and they just don't even try to make the team better,
doesn't I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
That doesn't sit well with me.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
No, nor should it, nor should I think especially the
league has just changed so much in the last ten years,
like the dead and teams have taken advantage of to
the point that it has propelled them. Sure d I mean,
look at Baltimore with Rokwan Christian mccaffaffre.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, we've seen this happen year and year out.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Now where a one acquisition can, if it's the just
the right guy to set off with the one thing
you need, can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
And certainly you could see one.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Dominant guy helping to set off something with the Bengals defense,
although they get probably he's actually like four or five
of us.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
All right, Well, uh, awesome as always, Yeah, appreciate it,
and we'll be reading the Athletic dot com and listening
to the Growler podcast. Latest episode recorded earlier today is out.
Now go get it, as we say, where you get
your podcasts, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Looking forward to seeing Punch for Pizza at the Philly
Punch for.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Pizza, and it's white Bengal, White Bengal, and puns for pizza.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Huns for pizza. All right, Hubert, King of the Jungle.
It is four o'clock.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
We're a Buffalo, Wild Wings and Milford on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
This
And sin.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Prime time coverage starts Sunday at four on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right, what's up? Can I for noon? Mollwegger? This
is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We are because it's Tuesday, broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wings.
We're in Milford. We're in Milford. Sorry, I had to
do it at least once. We're here till six o'clock.
Tuesdays at beat ups mean buy one, get one half
off Traditional Wings. We've got bud Light specials. We've got
the cooler. It's staring at me. It's right here. We
(00:35):
give away this cooler half the time we give away
Bengals tickets. Half the time we give away this bud
Light Bengals cooler. Last week we had people who are
willing to buy it off the person who won it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So you either get an awesome cooler or you can
put it up forbid. Whatever. We've got some.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Cool Bengals, bud Light swag, and so much more. We're
here till six o'clock. Obviously, if you know anything about
the Milford area, you know this place is right off
I two seventy five.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We are here till six o'clock.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's a cool place if you want to watch the
two baseball games this afternoon and tonight. Obviously you know
b Dubs, a billion TVs A billion beers.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a blast. Come on out.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
If you can't be here this afternoon, maybe swing by
tonight and take advantage of buy one, Get one half
of Traditional Wings.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Paul Danner Junior is here. What's up. You probably wish
that that old school logo that you like so much
from the Bengals is on the side of that cooler.
It's just got it has their current logo.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I do wish, Yes, you love the old school I
do logo that I don't like. I do the one
where the helmet for some reason is popping off of
a tiger who's running and has the other old logo
on the helmet.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, just be repetitive.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Every summer I buy a new Bengals hat for the season,
and I found.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
One with that logo on it.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I was at the game on Sunday and I
was in the men's room and I'm washing my hands
and I, you know, ever catch yourself in the mirror
and I see like I catch the hat, and I'm
like God, you know what, that really doesn't look like anything.
It looks like an abstract painting with a bunch of
orange and white and some black.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
There's too many details involved for to be a logo.
I just it, that's all. But I just I saw
that because I like the look of that, and yeah,
turn you get the two you got clean?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, it's clean, you got you have the two different
logos on that, And I thought, you know, I know
what you'd want.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Okay, well let's start with that while we're talking about aesthetics. Yeah,
let's make sure never ever, ever again, we go blacktops.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Orange pants, no question.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I am a fan of every other Bengals uniform combination. Yeah,
and I'm open minded and like with all of them,
I'm want to see him in person. I walked into
the stadium at about twenty minutes until one o'clock and
the players come out for warm ups. They introduced the defense,
and the first thing I thought was, does Hanford Dixon
play for the Bengals like.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Webster Slaughter? Like, what do we That's not a good look.
We just ace that one.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah, No, I mean there was I was you wish
you had Eric Metcalf, that'd be fine. You touchdown, Tommy,
Tommy var Now, they probably could have used anybody that
played defensive tackle for the Browns back in the old days.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
But but I'll say this, I always.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Go with something that's a new uniform, commos when then
you see for the first time. I am a gut
instinct person. The way you felt in the first three
seconds of seeing it is how you should feel about it.
And the first three seconds of feeling it, I said, gross,
looks like the Browns And that was sort of.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
My my feeling.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I didn't try to analyze it any further than that
and be done with it.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And like, I'm the guy who wants them to lean
into orange more so the all you orange uniforms terrific,
white top orange pants awesome. My big takeaway from that
game on Sunday, despite all the controversy involving coaching decisions,
despite all the angst about the defense, blacktop orange pants
eighty six, that bad.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Boy, no more need for that one. Now, I'm with
you on that one.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You wrote this, Okay, I'm gonna read it from a
passage of your piece.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
He didn't call it one of my little articles summer
the Athletic Doc Tom he.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Wrote this passage, and in the focus of the piece
for those who have ever read it, and I encourage
you to, is where the Bengals are offensively and why
that should that should engender at least some degree of
optimism for what's in a very bague spot. Yeah, I
mean one and four is not good, but the offense
is absolutely cooking. And to me, the thing I focus
on most is the offense is healthy.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But you wrote this passage.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That's not saying the Bengals should or will win those games,
Jacobe were said in the otherwise winless Patriots chuckle at
the notion. But the Bengals defense doesn't need to be
great or even good when the offense plays at such
an elite level. It just needs to be not a
horrendous liability. That's where things are.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's where we are, that's where things are.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Don't don't be a horrendous liability. Yes man, how things
have fallen. Two and a half years ago, the defense
was carrying it two within an eyelash of the Super Bowl,
and now just don't be a horrendous liability. Yes, So
I've got a number I'm gonna throw at you in
a little bit, Okay, but just speak to that first.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's where we are well, because that's all that is
the baseline of what a defense on the other side
of any offense playing at the Bengals current level has
to be to assure that you will win a vast
majority of your games.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It is really.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Hard and in fact, does I detail on that piece,
pretty much unprecedented for an I'm sorry not pretty much
absolutely unprecedented this century for a team to play at
that offensive level and only have won one game.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's just not something that happens.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So you just need it to not be total awfulness, right,
and so that is all that it takes.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, it can grow to more. To me, it's more
like again.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
And we've been talking a lot about this in recent weeks,
buying time for something to happen, right, like something, whether
it be a scheme shift that clicks, whether it be
a young player that emerges, whether it's just health of
this defensive line that has been you know, a part
of some of the issues, certainly a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Whatever that is. You know, you're just trying to buy time.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
This group is currently constructed, even in its kind of
one of its best forms isn't winning the games in
January that you want to win. The hopes, the hope
is that it can get itself by that point to
a level that's okay enough that you have the elite.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Offense that continues to win you games. You just got
to now. You just got to get there. Now.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
It's just about how is there a path to get there.
You're not thinking about the division, You're not thinking about
beating the Chiefs to Narrowhead. You are thinking of how
the heck do you get in a tournament at this point?
And that's how you get in a tournament is you
get this thing that you have that is this anvila
on this team's back right now, which is this defense,
and getting it to lighten the load so they can
run a little bit. And that means taking advantage of
(06:55):
some teams that aren't as offensively elite as a couple
that they face and Washington and Baltimore, who are the
two of the best them in the Bengals the three
best offenses in the league by the numbers right now,
and just get it to a level that feels more comfortable, honestly,
like what you saw when they played Carolina and New
England and Kansas city, you know where it's like, Okay,
they made enough, they made enough plays for the offense
(07:16):
to go win you those games. That's what you needed
to look like. And I think that's possible. I don't.
I don't think the defense is as bad as certainly
everybody feels right now, because I think that Baltimore and
Washington do exacerbate the problem. That's a bad matchup. Man,
(07:39):
they were not equipped for any of that, and they
knew it. That's why they blitzed forty one times hoping
that something good happened.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Right, And so.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
To me, I think they can be a little bit
more equipped to be okayish, and that's what they need
because offenses that play at the current level the Bengals
are playing at don't lose games. They don't lose a
lot of that's just the nature of the NFL that
has not changed and it won't change going forward. So
to me, that's where it all starts, and there can
(08:09):
be hope in that because they they don't play they
play Baltimore again, yeahly and Okay, Philly offense and the
rest of them are not necessarily very good offense.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The thing is like, but you can't bank on that.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
No, that's the thing I hate defaulting to right or
putting too much stock in boy, the other team's gonna stink,
you know. I mean I could say, well, you know,
the Giants without Molik neighbors go to the West Coast
and kind of did what they wanted offensively against Seattle.
So in New York they're feeling pretty good about this
matchup on Sunday. I know what we all do, and
I've been guilty of doing it. I did on your
(08:41):
podcast this morning. Well, let's go back in time and
relitigate things like Jesse Bates, you talk about what they
could have done or it's advanced the conversation and get
rid of lou Ana Rumo and see if Robert Salad
can coach the defense on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's not gonna happen. What I want to know is
how do they fix it?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And how do they fix it that to the point
that the defense is playing at a level that is
passable and is good enough to take advantage of an
offense that is doing exactly what we all thought it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Could do more pass rush.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
You know, it's the thing that they have lacked, and
I think some of what Luanna Roumo did against Baltimore
is part of.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
The answer to just be more aggressive.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Lamar is gonna do that, right, like some quarterbacks that
you blitz them and it's just not fruitful. Talk about
what you saw Baltimore did Burrow right after this first couple.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
He goes five or five for.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
One hundred yards two touchdowns against the Blitzkay, like, there's
some correction you want to do to Lamar is one
of those.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
But they were kind of at options like, I don't know, man,
maybe we just blitz them a bunch. And so I
do think that that can still work.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I do think that you can just say, hey, go
a little old school wink Martindale, right, and just say
let's just bring a bunch of pressure because we have
to get it somehow, and hope that it creates a
turnover or to and with an understanding that, look, we're
probably gonna give up touchdowns anyway, so why not try
to force the issue a little bit. That said, I
(10:08):
think you can find the hope there being that looked
I thought Sam Hubbard looked healthier, and when we talked
to him after was notably different in his tone.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Talking about how healthy he felt out there. For the
first time.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought this was after he pulled himself off the turf,
when Lamar Jackson at least he was able to chase
him down and get his hands on him, right, Sam,
from the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's true. True, that's true.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
But you're by the way, there's a long list of
Lamar Jackson does that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Does that too, no question what it's not it. There's
a highlight reel with a lot of those, and he
can join the vigil.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
But I think I thought that was encouraging at least
in terms he made some plays in that game we
hadn't seen him play, and with Miles Murphy there, who again,
I feel like you saw a little bit from in.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
His first Sure that.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
A build on It hasn't changed that the rookies still
have the young players still have to be the difference here.
Their progress was what this team was banking on before
the season started.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It has failed them to this point.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
It's still what they're banking on now is guys like
DJ Turner was Dax Hill is, guys like Cam Taylor, Britt,
Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins. That that's what the way they
built this thing, and that's why it's been a house
of cards is because it's built around the progress of
young players had to be the key. They haven't seen
it to this point. I don't think that you can
write those players off. Certainly not a guy like Miles Murphy,
(11:33):
who you just saw him in his first game this
year after a solid enough rookie season.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
A combination of him and Hubbard together I think is
a nice fit.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Okay, where Murphy's in there on all your pass rush situations,
Hubbard's and there is your early downs guy who's more
and that gives you more the run stop stuff, and
a decent combination. You paid Sheldon Rankin's a bunch of
money to show up and get out of the passer.
Him coming back healthy next to bj Hill, you hope
can give you a little bit more pass rush too.
(12:05):
If you're more aggressive with blitzing and recognizing that's how
you have to play, that that can give you that
element that you've just so badly been missing. That doesn't
change anything that's been happening in terms of third downs
with guys running wide open and free and miscommunication whatever
it is, or just maybe they're maybe they're communicating, they're
just not getting there now, right, Yeah, there's a happy
(12:27):
medium where you can you have somebody back there that
can communicate and be fast enough to get there.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Right Theoretically, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So here's what I'm gonna do, at least at the
home games. You know how when you go to like
a Reds game, they've got that thing in the bleachers
where you hang the keys and then after ten of them,
everybody gets like a free pizza.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
The Bengals should do that with opposing punts.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
So the last four games they have forced seven punts. Yeah, combined,
that's not good. First game they forced five was good
enough to win. Offense was a problem against New England.
So the average game, each team or eight team gets
eleven possessions. I'm using twenty twenty two numbers. Couldn't find
it for twenty twenty three. Didn't feel like doing the
(13:09):
math on my own. In twenty twenty two, teams average
ten point nine possessions per game, so eleven. If in
those eleven possessions the Bengals can force four punts, they
will win.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and so what we should do the punt meter pete, Yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
If it gets to four, everybody wins something I don't know,
and the Bengals will win that game with this offense.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Four punts will do it. It beat nice if they
got to.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Turnover, you know, got a turnover on downs if a
team goes forward on four that sort of thing. Bengals
were awful on third down. Ten to fifteen, four punts.
That's the magic number.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
You've been in Great American ballpark. Win you know you
have one of these when they're that ten ks. Yeah,
the place is the absolute bed PANAMOI chanting pizza. Like everything,
you get a good promotion connected with Yes, maybe not
as good as the Penn Station one that blew up
on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that was That was
a good promotion that people are like, I'm getting free something, right.
(14:11):
Imagine how loud it will be once they forced three
punts and you need that fourth punt at the end
of a game.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You want to elicit bedlam from that crowd as well. Dude,
punts for pizza. This is not for pizza. This is
it's really not hard. I feel I feel like.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You go for the punt number we have it's one quarter,
it's one a quarter, one quarter.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Bengals will win with this offense. I don't see anything,
so you know how.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Like you'll hear like, oh, you know, here's this team's
record when they uh when they run for one hundred
yards or when this running back gets twenty five carries.
Like there's always that, right, So I'm gonna start charting
the Bengals record moving forward. When the opposing punters on
the field for four kicks.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
I love this, And you know what, congratulations you just
you solve problems here.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They got to get there the whole. I know it's
not easy.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
The hard part is when it's the third quarter and
the other tw he has scored like thirty one points
and you look up and you just see that lone p.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's been hanging up there, blown in the winds. The problem. Yeah, no, no,
no doubt. A sad visual.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, I feel like I've I've looked up and it's
ten to two and there's one strikeout. There's one k
out there unless field puns for pizza. Get it done,
get it. I know the Bengals marketing department listens. So
here's a free idea for you. Look, I could be
involved if you want, like all man Man the py
corner or whatever we call it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Don't call it that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I think I think that's right. You can put your
face on it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
I mean, can we get maybe it's just four big
pictures of your face.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You could get like Huber, Brad Robbins, Drew Christ behaving
weirdly on social media, so maybe maybe.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
He's not all three Yeah, all three that were in camp.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Right, Yeah, we could all get together and just puns
for pizza.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, Lee Johns, Lee Johnson, Yeah, I love it. Every
punter in their.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
History, Lee Johnson, Kyle Larson, Kevin Huper, some other guys, yeah,
some other guys.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, just there. It is the way to deliver the
idea guy. You are the idea guy.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Can you imagine, like it's third down, the defenses on
the field, there's three punts already, It's like third and eight, right,
here comes Russell Wilson or whoever's playing for the Steelers,
and it's like, man, they force a punt here. Yeah,
and oh Bedlam Yeah, might be thirty eight ten in
favor of the other team, but Bedlam.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Huber's face is definitely on the fourth punt card without question.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean the guy it's twenty minutes after three
o'clock He's Paul Dayner Junior, who covers the Bengals for
the Athletic host of the Growler Podcast. Latest episode Baalds
Don't Lie Out Today And Uh, I.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Got a lot off my chest on that podcast. That
was fun.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Have you felt like you've been getting enough off your
chest over the last thirty six hours?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, Yeah, it seemed like yesterday was a pretty cathartic show.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
For you, kind of yeah, yeah, you and everyone else.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Tony and Mo Football Show. We rebranded to the Two
Angry Guys. We've ever done that before with more success
than us. Twenty one after three, we're at Buffalo Wild
Wings and Milford.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
He's Paul here till four.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I'm Mulleger here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Twenty seven after three, We're at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Paul Danner Juniors here. A couple of quick things while
we're on the defense. Uh, Jordan Battle got his opportunity
on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You didn't go super Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean I think that's sometimes you, you know, you
ask and you why is why is this happening?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And then you quickly find out we have our answer
we have our answer. Yeah, but you know the thing is,
it's that's where they're at. They're like, we'll give them
a chance.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Oh I don't blame them, but when they put them
out there, I kind of nod and went, yeah, okay,
now now we understand one.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, immediately immediately go after him. And it's just it's
it's not great. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
No, there's not been much good that has been happening
around Jordan battle and and that kind of cemented it,
I think.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
A little bit. But they're gonna they're gonna keep giving anybody.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I mean, if you notice, I mean they were trotting
everybody else. Yes, and they said they wanted to keep
guys fresh. Yeah, they also are looking for anybody that
can give a glimmer of hope that they could.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Give him something.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Is there a sense that Mike hilton injury could be
something that last few weeks.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I haven't necessarily gotten that. I thought that there was.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
They were still kind of keeping some hope alive at
the end of last week, even though it always looked
like it probably wasn't gonna happen. So that makes me
think that there's a chance. I think they're hopeful that
he'll be back this week, but again that's something to monitor,
especially with obviously with the Dax Hiltie.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, the Dak's Hill injury stinks for a lot of
different reasons. But I guess part of the fallout is
the decision about what to do with him this offseason
fifth year option.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, and I have not, truthfully not spoken with anybody
specifically about that decision, so I don't know where they
stand on it, but to me, they were you know,
I talked to some people in the building that talked
about how that injury they took as hard as almost
(19:26):
any they've had here because they felt there was a
lot of pride into what Dax had done, not just
that he was playing okay, yeah, you know, but how
he handled a really hard situation of it and what's
been a hard situation since he got here of maybe,
you know, having to learn the hard way that potentially
(19:49):
maybe he's miscast and here are a lot of people
taking shots at him, including people in the building, and
they gave him tough conversations and then they put him
through the whole off season of we don't know if
you'll move, maybe you'll stay, who knows, And then they
go through the draft and he took it all and
really attacked whatever they wanted to give him. He wanted
to be the good team guy and do the right thing,
(20:09):
and he did it right. He got better at it,
he kept working at it. It mattered to him, and
he went out there and he was the most consistent
guy through the first five weeks of this season. And
to see that, everybody felt very positive about him as
a player find having found his spot. I think they
feel like he found his spot there at outside corner
(20:31):
and potentially a slot. You know, you watched that first
couple of series there where he went for you and
you said, okay, yeah, you knew why that was potentially
maybe his end game here in the league because you
could see that being a thing maybe for him. So
for that reason, I would lean to that they would
exercise fifty option and feel like there's a real bright
(20:52):
feature for her.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I feel like over the last nine months from a
football perspective, he's checked every box. Yeah, and so if
you believe the injury is not going to be something
that causes long term concern and you think he's going
to recover and get back to one hundred percent, I
don't know why that would be a player that you
(21:13):
would decline the fifth year option on.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, I don't, and that's why I don't think. I
think now before this season, sure you would have said
I don't see any way they do it right. But
I think the way he handled it and the way
he played, absolutely it seems like one that.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They would do.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
But a lot of decisions have to be made between
that one then, and trying to predict their decisions isn't
always the.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Let's work on the punts for peace I first, and
then we'll worry about picking up down Hills fift year option.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
All right.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I want to know what if you think when we
come back, what Zach Taylor's life is like, if he
operates worrying about the worst thing that could happen at
every turn, We'll do.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That when we come back. He's Paula Junior.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I'm like, we're here at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford
on ESP fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. Do we want to
move on for doctor Keith Gordon and Boston Elmore.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think you should continue to let me keep going.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Now Sincy three sixty Tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Cincinnati's eaton.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Sports headlines are reservice of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime
power training, protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life Kelsey chev dot Com.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Bengals made it official.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Dax Hill and Jackson Kirkland go on IR, both with
injuries they suffered on Sunday, Dax and Mee Jackson a
biceps injury. Cincinnati signing tackle Andrew Stuber to the active
roster off Atlanta's practice squad. He is a first year
player from Michigan who was taken by the Patriots in
the seventh round of twenty twenty two. Spent most of
(22:53):
his season on the reserve non football injury list. Was
on the Patriots practice squad four twenty twenty three, but
the first five game of this season on the Falcons
practice squad.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
He got to be teammates with Jesse Bates, which is
kind of cool.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Cincinnati also signed quarterback Mike Abram to the practice squad.
He is a rookie from Marshall's sixth round pick of
Indian this year's draft, waived by the Coldster and Cuts
was not with an NFL team during the first five weeks.
Bengals Giants Sunday Night, eight twenty live on ESPN fifteen
thirty Jets A fired head coach Robert Sala. The Reds
have gotten rid of their three hitting coaches. Did you
(23:25):
know the Reds had three hitting coaches?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I did when when that news came out and you
tweeted it. Had no idea? Yeah, amazing. I followed this
team religiously.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
I was thinking about it because I heard you guys
talking about this on the way over, and I thought,
maybe they run it on like you know how you
always hear about the guy who's in the cage at
three am.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Maybe they run in three eight hour shifts.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Oh right, And so it's like from from noon to
eight pm they have one guy and then they have
a grave yard shift guy and a morning guy. Okay,
you know, just someone's always there, just standing by the
door to unlock the cage.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
You know, thought, get like one guy throws batting practice,
one guy puts the ball on the tee. Yeah, and
the other guy's in charge of flip drills.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
I don't know, maybe somebody is like exceptional at the
flip drill. They had him in and they just flip right,
and so you just you gotta have that guy.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Also, reportedly, UH pitching coach and director of Pitching Derek
Johnson will return. U UC basketball news Wes Miller confirms
that Tyler McKinley, the freshman from Winton Woods, is going
to miss this season.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
With a tour acl.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Uh more on UC coming up in the four o'clock hour.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Paul Danner, junior from the Athletics.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Here, we're Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford here till six o'clock.
We've got buy one half, buy one, get one half off,
Traditional Wings, bud Light specials, and so much more. Do
you believe that Joe Burrow called a run play in overtime?
First and ten? Do you believe that?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I do? I don't.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I don't know why, especially in the immediate aftermath of
a game, there would be a lie about that. I
just it was because again, you're talking off the field
into the locker room up to the press conference, asked
about it, boom fires that fer like it was.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It didn't.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
It didn't even feel like there was even necessarily time
to be like, oh, this is gonna be beneficial for me
to lie about this, and so for that fact, I
felt like he was just.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Kind of firing off the truth there.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
So yeah, I do think that's the case. But I
get you're right, I mean, you don't. It's hard to
just repruding this doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah,
I did it, But it could be a simple it
could be a simple you know, look or whatever to
the back, you know, where you're going off of a
(25:51):
play action and just saying looking at it.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Who knows, But that's my I just for that fact.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
You and I are not totally aligned when it comes
to the.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Handling of overtime.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And that's okay, Yeah, that's fine. And look, I said
this on your podcast. I'm the first to admit there
are a lot of head coaches and a lot of
quarterbacks who would have handled that situation in ot after
the gift fumble in field goal range, would have handled
it exactly the same way.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I recognize that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And if Ryan Rico gets the whole down, chances are
Evan makes that kick, the Bengals win, and.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
We're not really focusing on that. I recognize all that.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
What I don't like is making decisions based primarily on
the worst thing that can happen. Right, Yes, when Zach
Taylor walks to his car in the morning, is he
like a tree might fall on me.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I don't know, right, a tree might fall on me,
But no, he walks to his car, Well, the car,
the car might break down.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
On the way to this date, And like, what if
There's a lot of bad things that can happen to.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
You, but you still make what if the last two
times he walked to his car a.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Tree did fall on him a helmet. I think that's
what that was. I think that.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Conservative approach was him putting on a helmet with anna
fall off. I have a tree in my backyard. I
have seen multiple giant branches. Anytime the wind blows a
little too much come falling out of this tree and
land in my backyard. And and I'm like, man, thank goodness,
I wasn't back there. So when it gets windy, now
(27:26):
you know what I don't do, go stand under the tree.
The last two times Joe Burrow was under center, he
threw an interception right and then he got sacked right
up the middle. Okay, And yes, I'm not personally gonna
go back to last week. Zach Taylor did reference last
week in Carolina for a minute drill. The game is
(27:48):
basically over. They get a holding call on Orlando Brown
on the backside of a call. I look at the
previous two because we reference how good they were that day,
and they were obviously unbelievable, But the literal last two
times they they were in that situation, it was something
that we're like, oh, tip your tip your captain, Marlin
(28:08):
Humphrey Burrow to chase easy slant that should be just
like candy from a baby, and it wasn't. And then
they get back there and all of a sudden, this
blitz comes up the middle that they a game they
couldn't stop. Tip your cap to the Ravens. Right, you're
in field goal range. You just paid Evan McPherson for
what reason. He is unbelievably clutch and has a huge leg.
(28:29):
That is the That is what sets him apart from
almost anybody that they've had here. And so when you
have those three factors, I get being apprehensive about dropping
back to throw. When you have Evan in more than
good enough field goal range, Hey, you're allowed to gain
yards on the run. I understand that you're probably not
going too into that box. And so those factors to me,
(28:54):
do stand down. I feel like that gets everybody's Oh
but Burrows, just you gotta he's never gonna make the
last two times. I get that being in the back
of your head when it just happened, you know, So
I to me, that's the difference. And I say, you
also paid Evan a lot of money so that you
can have that calm peace of mind when you're on
the thirty whatever, thirty five and say this, he's he's
(29:19):
good like he's Evan McPherson, and that's why we have him.
And I feel great about this. He's well within his range.
He kicks it into the net from sixty. I feel
okay about it. I understand. I understand the need to
be more aggressive. I understand different types of shots you
can take. But I also really feel like those last
two plays that happened didn't not happen. So I just
(29:41):
I look at that and say, I understand that being
in the back of your head at that point when
you feel like you have the game won.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I hear this often. Well, you know there could have
been a holding penalty. Correct me if I'm wrong. They
throw flags on running plays.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
They do, okay, yeah, so like that.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Well, the holding penalty thing, to me is kind of
a is kind of an outside throw away. But I
think there's types of runs that are more conducive to
holding penalties.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Types they ran or not downhill push them.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
So to me, if it's let's say it's third and ten,
balls in the same spot, Okay, we've tried two pass plays,
let's we have no shot, our next play is going
to be a field goal.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Or if we lose a lot of yards third and ten,
no issue with it. Like by the time it.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Got the third down, I said out loud, like a right, okay,
give it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Or kick it now?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
And I mean, look whatever, yeah, fine, But if you're
telling me I can throw, I can have Joe drop
back three times. Is there a good chance that the
net of that is zero yards? Yes, maybe it's three incompletions,
maybe it's a sack, and then the next pass they
gain eight and it's third and nine.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
The last few times he was out there, the net
was worse than zero.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
But I mean, like, I get, I understand, No, I
I trust me, I get I wouldn't no one would
have a problem with Joe dropping back to throw there.
But when you feel like you have the game absolutely
where you want it, and it's over, and what just
happened that it's It's one thing if that had not happened,
you know, but it's so fresh. Baltimore obviously had started
(31:22):
to anticipate some things and and figure a couple of
things out on the last two drives. I'm just saying,
having that in your head, when you feel like you've
got the game is I get it. I get that part.
I think first and ten, I want him throwing.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I don't want them to discount which has happened, because
that's irresponsible. Like everything that happens in a game is information.
Like so I understand that. I just and you are
right about Evan McPherson. Man like Joe Burrow was my
meal ticket if I'm a play caller, if I'm a
head coach, that's my meal ticket.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
He he was the meal ticket to get him to
that point. He didn't need to serve any more meals. Yeah,
like to me, to me, he didn't need him.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
To serve any more meals. I just but I I
know nothing is automatic for fifty three and.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I'm the first one. I'm always I'm always thinking that,
especially when you watch college, right, it's like, right, the
last thing you ever do.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know. But to me, that's the difference.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
That's the difference in having a guy like Evan paying
a guy like Evan in that spot.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
How many times have you seen him.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Make the clutch kick? You just say, Okay, believe in
Evan McPherson. Fifty three is not long for him, you know,
and and and you believe in that, believe in that
guy that you paid too, and that it's not even
gonna make that much of a difference whether it's feel
forty three versus fifty three. He's either gonna hit it
straight or he's not. Yeah, but I get I trust me.
(32:46):
I'm certainly not here saying like, no, this is clear cut.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
I think there's been a ton directed at that sequence.
Sure like it blew the entire game. To me, it's
it is grievance eleven out of I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, I mean, to me, the big takeaway was this
defense is a train wreck.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I can't trust it.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
And the ceiling for this team is lower than I
thought it was back in July because they can't really
stop anybody, and they can't finish and they can't finish games,
which you wrote about like I could not agree more.
But I think that the sequence that's easiest to litigate,
which we all like to do, is the overtime. But sure,
on a thirty thousand foot scale, the defense is terrible, rible,
(33:31):
And if that doesn't change, then what this team can
accomplish even with this offense cooking right now is very,
very limited. We got to step away. I have more questions. Yeah, yeah,
I have more questions.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I'm here here.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I want to explore what we could be talking about
four weeks from today. Yeah, and then uh well right, yes,
not the election, trade deadline, trade down.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm here for trade deadline right twelve away from four o'clock.
He's Paul Danner Junior with his for another segment.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I'm here till six Milford Buffalo Wild Wings on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Autumn is in the air,
and like the leaves, prices are fun.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Downs and they're engraving the Ilary O'Brien Trophy.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
It's what's happening in the NBA. It's seven away from
four o'clock. Then a few minutes with our friend Paul
Dane or Junior. We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford.
Four weeks from today. The most significant thing happening in
the United States so America will be the NFL trade deadline,
which comes and goes if they haven't changed it at
four o'clock on that Tuesday. Bengals have four games between
(34:33):
now and then, so to me, it's cut and dry.
They're either going to be in it or out of it.
I don't think we're gonna be doing what we're doing now,
which is what we we've gone from last week.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Like man, big big game.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
You can't go one and four to now, like you know,
they can crawl their way back to five hundred and
then be five like we're doing it on Election Day.
On trade deadline day, they will either be in it
or out of it as it relates to either making
their team better for the stretch stretch drive or punting
and and and pointing the arrow toward twenty twenty five.
(35:09):
So let's let's first talk about this team. Maybe they're
four and five, Yeah, going to Baltimore, which I think
I would take. I take that four and five. They're
in it, They're in the mix. Yeah, Are they gonna
be buyers. Go get some help, get some guys who
can help on the pass rush, find a safety.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
No, I look, I can only go off history. We
can only go off what we know of the people
making these decisions.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I mean, I always.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Revert back to twenty nineteen when it could not have
been clearer.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, right, of this is the prime. Okay, you need
to sell now, aj G. You known't the Blackburns in
Switzerland or something. I think they were Switzerland, It was not.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
It was a situation where they didn't have a win, right,
they were coming back from London. It was like they
there was no It was as clear cut as it
gets clear cut, and the focus of the organization at
the top at that point was just try to win
games this year and address.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
The off season and the offseason essentially. Now, maybe there's
lessons from that.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
They maybe there's looking back in retrospect and they have
changed since since and when Burrow came a lot of
things changed, right, So perhaps we've also seen trade deadlines
come and go since then, and they have had the
ability to go acquire to add on teams that had
Super Bowl aspirations and go a little bit more all.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
In and not done.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
That they have shown no desire to trade draft picks,
so we know that is probably off table.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So we talk about assets they have, What do they have?
You know?
Speaker 4 (36:44):
So you get into these types of situations and I
feel like all I can do is go off of
what we know of the people making the decisions and
when they have been in the position to make these
decisions in the past, and almost across the board have
opted to sit on their hands. So do I think
that that's gonna happen. No, I don't think that that's
(37:05):
gonna happen. I'm certainly not gonna sit here like, oh, definitely,
they're gonna go get a big time defensive tackle. But
if and yes, everybody's sitting here saying, of course they
need to go get defensive help, it's gonna be so
clear you might be able to make a run if
you could get somebody to come in. Other teams will
make deals as well. I just I can't see it.
(37:27):
Maybe they surprise us, maybe this is the last box
they check on. That thing's gonna been different under Joe Burrow.
I just don't see that coming. Knowing what they their
view on this type of trade, deadline, that whole era
area is I just I just don't see it all right.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
So let's say things bottom out and they don't turn
it around, and we're sitting here four weeks from today
and the team's record is not good enough for them
to legitimately make a run. Let's say six two and
sex the right let me which I can't fathom as
bad as things have been, but let's they don't turn
(38:06):
it around their two and seven? Are they in cell mode?
Everybody's gonna bring up T Higgins, Well, it should be considered.
I know, I know you talked about five years ago
at twenty nineteen. You know they will win list in sell.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
I think it's a similar conversation. I think they're still
gonna say, look, we could run the table, right. I mean,
I'm just I'm just telling you. This is I'm telling
you what you're gonna hear.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Okay, they got to.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
As long as there's a chance and hopes alive, they're
gonna They're gonna try to have their best team go
out there.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The the obvious big picture.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
They never wanted to feel like they waved the white
flag on a season ever.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Ever, Even if they need to tank for Joe Burrow
in Miami.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Ever, Okay, and so that is gonna be the ultimate
waving of the white flag. Now, will t be somebody
in his camp that would decide it's time to push
some of those buttons? What will Jamar Chase's reaction be
if this team is two and seven? Not saying he's
gonna demand a trade, but what is that vibe like
(39:09):
at that point in the entire locker across the locker room.
But I would say t is obviously the one where
you would start where you know, you know he's not
a part of your future theoretically, h So are you
gonna get something for him or not? I still I
talk about that the same way I just talked about
the other side of it. I still think it's a
it's a thing where they don't make the move, they
don't want to wave the white flag and wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It would surprise me. It's not impossible. It would just
be very very out of character.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, well, I think I know people want I know
I know, and I'm not saying I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I'm not saying that they shouldn't feel pressured to do it.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
They obviously should obviously, but I can only go by
what we know.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
To me, of those two scenarios, the one that is
more difficult to digest as a fan is you've played
yourself back into it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You still know you're flawed, and you don't do anything
to address those flaws.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, because they could, they could jump back into things
and be they could be five and four. They can
win their next four games going to Baltimore. It doesn't
mean that all the stuff is fixed. It means that
guys are playing better. It means the defense has performed better.
It probably means the offense has continued to perform at
a very high rate. But the idea of having a
shot in early November, the trade deadline comes and goes
(40:25):
and they just don't even try to make the team better,
doesn't I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
That doesn't sit well with me.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
No, nor should it, nor should I think especially the
league has just changed so much in the last ten years,
like the dead and teams have taken advantage of to
the point that it has propelled them. Sure d I mean,
look at Baltimore with Rokwan Christian mccaffaffre.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, we've seen this happen year and year out.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Now where a one acquisition can, if it's the just
the right guy to set off with the one thing
you need, can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
And certainly you could see one.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Dominant guy helping to set off something with the Bengals defense,
although they get probably he's actually like four or five
of us.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
All right, Well, uh, awesome as always, Yeah, appreciate it,
and we'll be reading the Athletic dot com and listening
to the Growler podcast. Latest episode recorded earlier today is out.
Now go get it, as we say, where you get
your podcasts, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Looking forward to seeing Punch for Pizza at the Philly
Punch for.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Pizza, and it's white Bengal, White Bengal, and puns for pizza.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Huns for pizza. All right, Hubert, King of the Jungle.
It is four o'clock.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
We're a Buffalo, Wild Wings and Milford on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
This
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