10/8/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

How can we fix the Bengals Defense, Scott Satterfield speaks and we can finally talk about the Reds hiring Terry Francona.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And sin.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Prime time coverage starts Sunday at four on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right, what's up? Can I for noon? Mollwegger? This
is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
We are because it's Tuesday, broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wings.
We're in Milford. We're in Milford. Sorry, I had to
do it at least once. We're here till six o'clock.
Tuesdays at beat ups mean buy one, get one half
off Traditional Wings. We've got bud Light specials. We've got
the cooler. It's staring at me. It's right here. We

(00:35):
give away this cooler half the time we give away
Bengals tickets. Half the time we give away this bud
Light Bengals cooler. Last week we had people who are
willing to buy it off the person who won it.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
So you either get an awesome cooler or you can
put it up forbid. Whatever. We've got some.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Cool Bengals, bud Light swag, and so much more. We're
here till six o'clock. Obviously, if you know anything about
the Milford area, you know this place is right off
I two seventy five.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
We are here till six o'clock.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's a cool place if you want to watch the
two baseball games this afternoon and tonight. Obviously you know
b Dubs, a billion TVs A billion beers.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a blast. Come on out.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
If you can't be here this afternoon, maybe swing by
tonight and take advantage of buy one, Get one half
of Traditional Wings.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Paul Danner Junior is here. What's up. You probably wish
that that old school logo that you like so much
from the Bengals is on the side of that cooler.
It's just got it has their current logo.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
I do wish, Yes, you love the old school I
do logo that I don't like. I do the one
where the helmet for some reason is popping off of
a tiger who's running and has the other old logo
on the helmet.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, just be repetitive.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Every summer I buy a new Bengals hat for the season,
and I found.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
One with that logo on it.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I was at the game on Sunday and I
was in the men's room and I'm washing my hands
and I, you know, ever catch yourself in the mirror
and I see like I catch the hat, and I'm
like God, you know what, that really doesn't look like anything.
It looks like an abstract painting with a bunch of
orange and white and some black.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
There's too many details involved for to be a logo.
I just it, that's all. But I just I saw
that because I like the look of that, and yeah,
turn you get the two you got clean?

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, it's clean, you got you have the two different
logos on that, And I thought, you know, I know
what you'd want.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Okay, well let's start with that while we're talking about aesthetics. Yeah,
let's make sure never ever, ever again, we go blacktops.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Orange pants, no question.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I am a fan of every other Bengals uniform combination. Yeah,
and I'm open minded and like with all of them,
I'm want to see him in person. I walked into
the stadium at about twenty minutes until one o'clock and
the players come out for warm ups. They introduced the defense,
and the first thing I thought was, does Hanford Dixon
play for the Bengals like.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Webster Slaughter? Like, what do we That's not a good look.
We just ace that one.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah, No, I mean there was I was you wish
you had Eric Metcalf, that'd be fine. You touchdown, Tommy,
Tommy var Now, they probably could have used anybody that
played defensive tackle for the Browns back in the old days.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
But but I'll say this, I always.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Go with something that's a new uniform, commos when then
you see for the first time. I am a gut
instinct person. The way you felt in the first three
seconds of seeing it is how you should feel about it.
And the first three seconds of feeling it, I said, gross,
looks like the Browns And that was sort of.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
My my feeling.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
I didn't try to analyze it any further than that
and be done with it.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
And like, I'm the guy who wants them to lean
into orange more so the all you orange uniforms terrific,
white top orange pants awesome. My big takeaway from that
game on Sunday, despite all the controversy involving coaching decisions,
despite all the angst about the defense, blacktop orange pants
eighty six, that bad.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Boy, no more need for that one. Now, I'm with
you on that one.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
You wrote this, Okay, I'm gonna read it from a
passage of your piece.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
He didn't call it one of my little articles summer
the Athletic Doc Tom he.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Wrote this passage, and in the focus of the piece
for those who have ever read it, and I encourage
you to, is where the Bengals are offensively and why
that should that should engender at least some degree of
optimism for what's in a very bague spot. Yeah, I
mean one and four is not good, but the offense
is absolutely cooking. And to me, the thing I focus
on most is the offense is healthy.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
But you wrote this passage.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
That's not saying the Bengals should or will win those games,
Jacobe were said in the otherwise winless Patriots chuckle at
the notion. But the Bengals defense doesn't need to be
great or even good when the offense plays at such
an elite level. It just needs to be not a
horrendous liability. That's where things are.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's where we are, that's where things are.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Don't don't be a horrendous liability. Yes man, how things
have fallen. Two and a half years ago, the defense
was carrying it two within an eyelash of the Super Bowl,
and now just don't be a horrendous liability. Yes, So
I've got a number I'm gonna throw at you in
a little bit, Okay, but just speak to that first.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's where we are well, because that's all that is
the baseline of what a defense on the other side
of any offense playing at the Bengals current level has
to be to assure that you will win a vast
majority of your games.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
It is really.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
Hard and in fact, does I detail on that piece,
pretty much unprecedented for an I'm sorry not pretty much
absolutely unprecedented this century for a team to play at
that offensive level and only have won one game.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's just not something that happens.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
So you just need it to not be total awfulness, right,
and so that is all that it takes.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, it can grow to more. To me, it's more
like again.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
And we've been talking a lot about this in recent weeks,
buying time for something to happen, right, like something, whether
it be a scheme shift that clicks, whether it be
a young player that emerges, whether it's just health of
this defensive line that has been you know, a part
of some of the issues, certainly a big part of it.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Whatever that is. You know, you're just trying to buy time.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
This group is currently constructed, even in its kind of
one of its best forms isn't winning the games in
January that you want to win. The hopes, the hope
is that it can get itself by that point to
a level that's okay enough that you have the elite.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Offense that continues to win you games. You just got
to now. You just got to get there. Now.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
It's just about how is there a path to get there.
You're not thinking about the division, You're not thinking about
beating the Chiefs to Narrowhead. You are thinking of how
the heck do you get in a tournament at this point?
And that's how you get in a tournament is you
get this thing that you have that is this anvila
on this team's back right now, which is this defense,
and getting it to lighten the load so they can
run a little bit. And that means taking advantage of

(06:55):
some teams that aren't as offensively elite as a couple
that they face and Washington and Baltimore, who are the
two of the best them in the Bengals the three
best offenses in the league by the numbers right now,
and just get it to a level that feels more comfortable, honestly,
like what you saw when they played Carolina and New
England and Kansas city, you know where it's like, Okay,
they made enough, they made enough plays for the offense

(07:16):
to go win you those games. That's what you needed
to look like. And I think that's possible. I don't.
I don't think the defense is as bad as certainly
everybody feels right now, because I think that Baltimore and
Washington do exacerbate the problem. That's a bad matchup. Man,

(07:39):
they were not equipped for any of that, and they
knew it. That's why they blitzed forty one times hoping
that something good happened.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Right, And so.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
To me, I think they can be a little bit
more equipped to be okayish, and that's what they need
because offenses that play at the current level the Bengals
are playing at don't lose games. They don't lose a
lot of that's just the nature of the NFL that
has not changed and it won't change going forward. So
to me, that's where it all starts, and there can

(08:09):
be hope in that because they they don't play they
play Baltimore again, yeahly and Okay, Philly offense and the
rest of them are not necessarily very good offense.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
The thing is like, but you can't bank on that.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
No, that's the thing I hate defaulting to right or
putting too much stock in boy, the other team's gonna stink,
you know. I mean I could say, well, you know,
the Giants without Molik neighbors go to the West Coast
and kind of did what they wanted offensively against Seattle.
So in New York they're feeling pretty good about this
matchup on Sunday. I know what we all do, and
I've been guilty of doing it. I did on your

(08:41):
podcast this morning. Well, let's go back in time and
relitigate things like Jesse Bates, you talk about what they
could have done or it's advanced the conversation and get
rid of lou Ana Rumo and see if Robert Salad
can coach the defense on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's not gonna happen. What I want to know is
how do they fix it?

Speaker 3 (08:57):
And how do they fix it that to the point
that the defense is playing at a level that is
passable and is good enough to take advantage of an
offense that is doing exactly what we all thought it.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Could do more pass rush.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
You know, it's the thing that they have lacked, and
I think some of what Luanna Roumo did against Baltimore
is part of.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
The answer to just be more aggressive.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Lamar is gonna do that, right, like some quarterbacks that
you blitz them and it's just not fruitful. Talk about
what you saw Baltimore did Burrow right after this first couple.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
He goes five or five for.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
One hundred yards two touchdowns against the Blitzkay, like, there's
some correction you want to do to Lamar is one
of those.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
But they were kind of at options like, I don't know, man,
maybe we just blitz them a bunch. And so I
do think that that can still work.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
I do think that you can just say, hey, go
a little old school wink Martindale, right, and just say
let's just bring a bunch of pressure because we have
to get it somehow, and hope that it creates a
turnover or to and with an understanding that, look, we're
probably gonna give up touchdowns anyway, so why not try
to force the issue a little bit. That said, I

(10:08):
think you can find the hope there being that looked
I thought Sam Hubbard looked healthier, and when we talked
to him after was notably different in his tone.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Talking about how healthy he felt out there. For the
first time.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought this was after he pulled himself off the turf,
when Lamar Jackson at least he was able to chase
him down and get his hands on him, right, Sam,
from the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's true. True, that's true.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
But you're by the way, there's a long list of
Lamar Jackson does that.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Does that too, no question what it's not it. There's
a highlight reel with a lot of those, and he
can join the vigil.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
But I think I thought that was encouraging at least
in terms he made some plays in that game we
hadn't seen him play, and with Miles Murphy there, who again,
I feel like you saw a little bit from in.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
His first Sure that.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
A build on It hasn't changed that the rookies still
have the young players still have to be the difference here.
Their progress was what this team was banking on before
the season started.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It has failed them to this point.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
It's still what they're banking on now is guys like
DJ Turner was Dax Hill is, guys like Cam Taylor, Britt,
Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins. That that's what the way they
built this thing, and that's why it's been a house
of cards is because it's built around the progress of
young players had to be the key. They haven't seen
it to this point. I don't think that you can
write those players off. Certainly not a guy like Miles Murphy,

(11:33):
who you just saw him in his first game this
year after a solid enough rookie season.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
A combination of him and Hubbard together I think is
a nice fit.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Okay, where Murphy's in there on all your pass rush situations,
Hubbard's and there is your early downs guy who's more
and that gives you more the run stop stuff, and
a decent combination. You paid Sheldon Rankin's a bunch of
money to show up and get out of the passer.
Him coming back healthy next to bj Hill, you hope
can give you a little bit more pass rush too.

(12:05):
If you're more aggressive with blitzing and recognizing that's how
you have to play, that that can give you that
element that you've just so badly been missing. That doesn't
change anything that's been happening in terms of third downs
with guys running wide open and free and miscommunication whatever
it is, or just maybe they're maybe they're communicating, they're
just not getting there now, right, Yeah, there's a happy

(12:27):
medium where you can you have somebody back there that
can communicate and be fast enough to get there.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Right Theoretically, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
So here's what I'm gonna do, at least at the
home games. You know how when you go to like
a Reds game, they've got that thing in the bleachers
where you hang the keys and then after ten of them,
everybody gets like a free pizza.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
The Bengals should do that with opposing punts.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
So the last four games they have forced seven punts. Yeah, combined,
that's not good. First game they forced five was good
enough to win. Offense was a problem against New England.
So the average game, each team or eight team gets
eleven possessions. I'm using twenty twenty two numbers. Couldn't find
it for twenty twenty three. Didn't feel like doing the

(13:09):
math on my own. In twenty twenty two, teams average
ten point nine possessions per game, so eleven. If in
those eleven possessions the Bengals can force four punts, they
will win.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and so what we should do the punt meter pete, Yeah, yeah, just.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
If it gets to four, everybody wins something I don't know,
and the Bengals will win that game with this offense.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Four punts will do it. It beat nice if they
got to.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Turnover, you know, got a turnover on downs if a
team goes forward on four that sort of thing. Bengals
were awful on third down. Ten to fifteen, four punts.
That's the magic number.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
You've been in Great American ballpark. Win you know you
have one of these when they're that ten ks. Yeah,
the place is the absolute bed PANAMOI chanting pizza. Like everything,
you get a good promotion connected with Yes, maybe not
as good as the Penn Station one that blew up
on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that was That was
a good promotion that people are like, I'm getting free something, right.

(14:11):
Imagine how loud it will be once they forced three
punts and you need that fourth punt at the end
of a game.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
You want to elicit bedlam from that crowd as well. Dude,
punts for pizza. This is not for pizza. This is
it's really not hard. I feel I feel like.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
You go for the punt number we have it's one quarter,
it's one a quarter, one quarter.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Bengals will win with this offense. I don't see anything,
so you know how.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Like you'll hear like, oh, you know, here's this team's
record when they uh when they run for one hundred
yards or when this running back gets twenty five carries.
Like there's always that, right, So I'm gonna start charting
the Bengals record moving forward. When the opposing punters on
the field for four kicks.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
I love this, And you know what, congratulations you just
you solve problems here.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
They got to get there the whole. I know it's
not easy.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
The hard part is when it's the third quarter and
the other tw he has scored like thirty one points
and you look up and you just see that lone p.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's been hanging up there, blown in the winds. The problem. Yeah, no, no,
no doubt. A sad visual.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, I feel like I've I've looked up and it's
ten to two and there's one strikeout. There's one k
out there unless field puns for pizza. Get it done,
get it. I know the Bengals marketing department listens. So
here's a free idea for you. Look, I could be
involved if you want, like all man Man the py
corner or whatever we call it.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Don't call it that, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I think I think that's right. You can put your
face on it.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
I mean, can we get maybe it's just four big
pictures of your face.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
You could get like Huber, Brad Robbins, Drew Christ behaving
weirdly on social media, so maybe maybe.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
He's not all three Yeah, all three that were in camp.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Right, Yeah, we could all get together and just puns
for pizza.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, Lee Johns, Lee Johnson, Yeah, I love it. Every
punter in their.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
History, Lee Johnson, Kyle Larson, Kevin Huper, some other guys, yeah,
some other guys.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, just there. It is the way to deliver the
idea guy. You are the idea guy.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Can you imagine, like it's third down, the defenses on
the field, there's three punts already, It's like third and eight, right,
here comes Russell Wilson or whoever's playing for the Steelers,
and it's like, man, they force a punt here. Yeah,
and oh Bedlam Yeah, might be thirty eight ten in
favor of the other team, but Bedlam.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Huber's face is definitely on the fourth punt card without question.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean the guy it's twenty minutes after three
o'clock He's Paul Dayner Junior, who covers the Bengals for
the Athletic host of the Growler Podcast. Latest episode Baalds
Don't Lie Out Today And Uh, I.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Got a lot off my chest on that podcast. That
was fun.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Have you felt like you've been getting enough off your
chest over the last thirty six hours?

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, Yeah, it seemed like yesterday was a pretty cathartic show.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
For you, kind of yeah, yeah, you and everyone else.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Tony and Mo Football Show. We rebranded to the Two
Angry Guys. We've ever done that before with more success
than us. Twenty one after three, we're at Buffalo Wild
Wings and Milford.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
He's Paul here till four.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
I'm Mulleger here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Twenty seven after three, We're at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Paul Danner Juniors here. A couple of quick things while
we're on the defense. Uh, Jordan Battle got his opportunity
on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
You didn't go super.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean I think that's sometimes you, you know, you
ask and you why is why is this happening?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
And then you quickly find out we have our answer
we have our answer. Yeah, but you know the thing is,
it's that's where they're at. They're like, we'll give them
a chance.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Oh I don't blame them, but when they put them
out there, I kind of nod and went, yeah, okay,
now now we understand one.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, immediately immediately go after him. And it's just it's
it's not great. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
No, there's not been much good that has been happening
around Jordan battle and and that kind of cemented it,
I think.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
A little bit. But they're gonna they're gonna keep giving anybody.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
I mean, if you notice, I mean they were trotting
everybody else. Yes, and they said they wanted to keep
guys fresh. Yeah, they also are looking for anybody that
can give a glimmer of hope that they could.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Give him something.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Is there a sense that Mike hilton injury could be
something that last few weeks.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
I haven't necessarily gotten that. I thought that there was.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
They were still kind of keeping some hope alive at
the end of last week, even though it always looked
like it probably wasn't gonna happen. So that makes me
think that there's a chance. I think they're hopeful that
he'll be back this week, but again that's something to monitor,
especially with obviously with the Dax Hiltie.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, the Dak's Hill injury stinks for a lot of
different reasons. But I guess part of the fallout is
the decision about what to do with him this offseason
fifth year option.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, and I have not, truthfully not spoken with anybody
specifically about that decision, so I don't know where they
stand on it, but to me, they were you know,
I talked to some people in the building that talked
about how that injury they took as hard as almost

(19:26):
any they've had here because they felt there was a
lot of pride into what Dax had done, not just
that he was playing okay, yeah, you know, but how
he handled a really hard situation of it and what's
been a hard situation since he got here of maybe,
you know, having to learn the hard way that potentially

(19:49):
maybe he's miscast and here are a lot of people
taking shots at him, including people in the building, and
they gave him tough conversations and then they put him
through the whole off season of we don't know if
you'll move, maybe you'll stay, who knows, And then they
go through the draft and he took it all and
really attacked whatever they wanted to give him. He wanted
to be the good team guy and do the right thing,

(20:09):
and he did it right. He got better at it,
he kept working at it. It mattered to him, and
he went out there and he was the most consistent
guy through the first five weeks of this season. And
to see that, everybody felt very positive about him as
a player find having found his spot. I think they
feel like he found his spot there at outside corner

(20:31):
and potentially a slot. You know, you watched that first
couple of series there where he went for you and
you said, okay, yeah, you knew why that was potentially
maybe his end game here in the league because you
could see that being a thing maybe for him. So
for that reason, I would lean to that they would
exercise fifty option and feel like there's a real bright

(20:52):
feature for her.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I feel like over the last nine months from a
football perspective, he's checked every box. Yeah, and so if
you believe the injury is not going to be something
that causes long term concern and you think he's going
to recover and get back to one hundred percent, I
don't know why that would be a player that you

(21:13):
would decline the fifth year option on.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, I don't, and that's why I don't think. I
think now before this season, sure you would have said
I don't see any way they do it right. But
I think the way he handled it and the way
he played, absolutely it seems like one that.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
They would do.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
But a lot of decisions have to be made between
that one then, and trying to predict their decisions isn't
always the.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Let's work on the punts for peace I first, and
then we'll worry about picking up down Hills fift year option.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
All right.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
I want to know what if you think when we
come back, what Zach Taylor's life is like, if he
operates worrying about the worst thing that could happen at
every turn, We'll do.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
That when we come back. He's Paula Junior.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I'm like, we're here at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford
on ESP fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. Do we want to
move on for doctor Keith Gordon and Boston Elmore.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think you should continue to let me keep going.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
Now Sincy three sixty Tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (22:17):
Cincinnati's eaton.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Sports headlines are reservice of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime
power training, protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life Kelsey chev dot Com.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Bengals made it official.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Dax Hill and Jackson Kirkland go on IR, both with
injuries they suffered on Sunday, Dax and Mee Jackson a
biceps injury. Cincinnati signing tackle Andrew Stuber to the active
roster off Atlanta's practice squad. He is a first year
player from Michigan who was taken by the Patriots in
the seventh round of twenty twenty two. Spent most of

(22:53):
his season on the reserve non football injury list. Was
on the Patriots practice squad four twenty twenty three, but
the first five game of this season on the Falcons
practice squad.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
He got to be teammates with Jesse Bates, which is
kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Cincinnati also signed quarterback Mike Abram to the practice squad.
He is a rookie from Marshall's sixth round pick of
Indian this year's draft, waived by the Coldster and Cuts
was not with an NFL team during the first five weeks.
Bengals Giants Sunday Night, eight twenty live on ESPN fifteen
thirty Jets A fired head coach Robert Sala. The Reds
have gotten rid of their three hitting coaches. Did you

(23:25):
know the Reds had three hitting coaches?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I did when when that news came out and you
tweeted it. Had no idea? Yeah, amazing. I followed this
team religiously.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
I was thinking about it because I heard you guys
talking about this on the way over, and I thought,
maybe they run it on like you know how you
always hear about the guy who's in the cage at
three am.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Maybe they run in three eight hour shifts.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
Oh right, And so it's like from from noon to
eight pm they have one guy and then they have
a grave yard shift guy and a morning guy. Okay,
you know, just someone's always there, just standing by the
door to unlock the cage.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
You know, thought, get like one guy throws batting practice,
one guy puts the ball on the tee. Yeah, and
the other guy's in charge of flip drills.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
I don't know, maybe somebody is like exceptional at the
flip drill. They had him in and they just flip right,
and so you just you gotta have that guy.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Also, reportedly, UH pitching coach and director of Pitching Derek
Johnson will return. U UC basketball news Wes Miller confirms
that Tyler McKinley, the freshman from Winton Woods, is going
to miss this season.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
With a tour acl.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Uh more on UC coming up in the four o'clock hour.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Paul Danner, junior from the Athletics.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Here, we're Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford here till six o'clock.
We've got buy one half, buy one, get one half off,
Traditional Wings, bud Light specials, and so much more. Do
you believe that Joe Burrow called a run play in overtime?
First and ten? Do you believe that?

Speaker 1 (24:54):
I do? I don't.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
I don't know why, especially in the immediate aftermath of
a game, there would be a lie about that. I
just it was because again, you're talking off the field
into the locker room up to the press conference, asked
about it, boom fires that fer like it was.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
It didn't.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
It didn't even feel like there was even necessarily time
to be like, oh, this is gonna be beneficial for me
to lie about this, and so for that fact, I
felt like he was just.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Kind of firing off the truth there.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
So yeah, I do think that's the case. But I
get you're right, I mean, you don't. It's hard to
just repruding this doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah,
I did it, But it could be a simple it
could be a simple you know, look or whatever to
the back, you know, where you're going off of a

(25:51):
play action and just saying looking at it.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Who knows, But that's my I just for that fact.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
You and I are not totally aligned when it comes
to the.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Handling of overtime.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
And that's okay, Yeah, that's fine. And look, I said
this on your podcast. I'm the first to admit there
are a lot of head coaches and a lot of
quarterbacks who would have handled that situation in ot after
the gift fumble in field goal range, would have handled
it exactly the same way.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
I recognize that.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
And if Ryan Rico gets the whole down, chances are
Evan makes that kick, the Bengals win, and.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
We're not really focusing on that. I recognize all that.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
What I don't like is making decisions based primarily on
the worst thing that can happen. Right, Yes, when Zach
Taylor walks to his car in the morning, is he
like a tree might fall on me.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
I don't know, right, a tree might fall on me,
But no, he walks to his car, Well, the car,
the car might break down.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
On the way to this date, And like, what if
There's a lot of bad things that can happen to.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
You, but you still make what if the last two
times he walked to his car a.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Tree did fall on him a helmet. I think that's
what that was. I think that.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
Conservative approach was him putting on a helmet with anna
fall off. I have a tree in my backyard. I
have seen multiple giant branches. Anytime the wind blows a
little too much come falling out of this tree and
land in my backyard. And and I'm like, man, thank goodness,
I wasn't back there. So when it gets windy, now

(27:26):
you know what I don't do, go stand under the tree.
The last two times Joe Burrow was under center, he
threw an interception right and then he got sacked right
up the middle. Okay, And yes, I'm not personally gonna
go back to last week. Zach Taylor did reference last
week in Carolina for a minute drill. The game is

(27:48):
basically over. They get a holding call on Orlando Brown
on the backside of a call. I look at the
previous two because we reference how good they were that day,
and they were obviously unbelievable, But the literal last two
times they they were in that situation, it was something
that we're like, oh, tip your tip your captain, Marlin

(28:08):
Humphrey Burrow to chase easy slant that should be just
like candy from a baby, and it wasn't. And then
they get back there and all of a sudden, this
blitz comes up the middle that they a game they
couldn't stop. Tip your cap to the Ravens. Right, you're
in field goal range. You just paid Evan McPherson for
what reason. He is unbelievably clutch and has a huge leg.

(28:29):
That is the That is what sets him apart from
almost anybody that they've had here. And so when you
have those three factors, I get being apprehensive about dropping
back to throw. When you have Evan in more than
good enough field goal range, Hey, you're allowed to gain
yards on the run. I understand that you're probably not
going too into that box. And so those factors to me,

(28:54):
do stand down. I feel like that gets everybody's Oh
but Burrows, just you gotta he's never gonna make the
last two times. I get that being in the back
of your head when it just happened, you know, So
I to me, that's the difference. And I say, you
also paid Evan a lot of money so that you
can have that calm peace of mind when you're on
the thirty whatever, thirty five and say this, he's he's

(29:19):
good like he's Evan McPherson, and that's why we have him.
And I feel great about this. He's well within his range.
He kicks it into the net from sixty. I feel
okay about it. I understand. I understand the need to
be more aggressive. I understand different types of shots you
can take. But I also really feel like those last
two plays that happened didn't not happen. So I just

(29:41):
I look at that and say, I understand that being
in the back of your head at that point when
you feel like you have the game won.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
I hear this often. Well, you know there could have
been a holding penalty. Correct me if I'm wrong. They
throw flags on running plays.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
They do, okay, yeah, so like that.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Well, the holding penalty thing, to me is kind of
a is kind of an outside throw away. But I
think there's types of runs that are more conducive to
holding penalties.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Types they ran or not downhill push them.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
So to me, if it's let's say it's third and ten,
balls in the same spot, Okay, we've tried two pass plays,
let's we have no shot, our next play is going
to be a field goal.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Or if we lose a lot of yards third and ten,
no issue with it. Like by the time it.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Got the third down, I said out loud, like a right, okay,
give it.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Or kick it now?

Speaker 3 (30:35):
And I mean, look whatever, yeah, fine, But if you're
telling me I can throw, I can have Joe drop
back three times. Is there a good chance that the
net of that is zero yards? Yes, maybe it's three incompletions,
maybe it's a sack, and then the next pass they
gain eight and it's third and nine.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
The last few times he was out there, the net
was worse than zero.

Speaker 4 (30:59):
But I mean, like, I get, I understand, No, I
I trust me, I get I wouldn't no one would
have a problem with Joe dropping back to throw there.
But when you feel like you have the game absolutely
where you want it, and it's over, and what just
happened that it's It's one thing if that had not happened,
you know, but it's so fresh. Baltimore obviously had started

(31:22):
to anticipate some things and and figure a couple of
things out on the last two drives. I'm just saying,
having that in your head, when you feel like you've
got the game is I get it. I get that part.
I think first and ten, I want him throwing.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I don't want them to discount which has happened, because
that's irresponsible. Like everything that happens in a game is information.
Like so I understand that. I just and you are
right about Evan McPherson. Man like Joe Burrow was my
meal ticket if I'm a play caller, if I'm a
head coach, that's my meal ticket.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
He he was the meal ticket to get him to
that point. He didn't need to serve any more meals. Yeah,
like to me, to me, he didn't need him.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
To serve any more meals. I just but I I
know nothing is automatic for fifty three and.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
I'm the first one. I'm always I'm always thinking that,
especially when you watch college, right, it's like, right, the
last thing you ever do.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know. But to me, that's the difference.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
That's the difference in having a guy like Evan paying
a guy like Evan in that spot.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
How many times have you seen him.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Make the clutch kick? You just say, Okay, believe in
Evan McPherson. Fifty three is not long for him, you know,
and and and you believe in that, believe in that
guy that you paid too, and that it's not even
gonna make that much of a difference whether it's feel
forty three versus fifty three. He's either gonna hit it
straight or he's not. Yeah, but I get I trust me.

(32:46):
I'm certainly not here saying like, no, this is clear cut.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
I think there's been a ton directed at that sequence.
Sure like it blew the entire game. To me, it's
it is grievance eleven out of I don't.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I don't disagree with that.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, I mean, to me, the big takeaway was this
defense is a train wreck.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
I can't trust it.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
And the ceiling for this team is lower than I
thought it was back in July because they can't really
stop anybody, and they can't finish and they can't finish games,
which you wrote about like I could not agree more.
But I think that the sequence that's easiest to litigate,
which we all like to do, is the overtime. But sure,
on a thirty thousand foot scale, the defense is terrible, rible,

(33:31):
And if that doesn't change, then what this team can
accomplish even with this offense cooking right now is very,
very limited. We got to step away. I have more questions. Yeah, yeah,
I have more questions.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I'm here here.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
I want to explore what we could be talking about
four weeks from today. Yeah, and then uh well right, yes,
not the election, trade deadline, trade down.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm here for trade deadline right twelve away from four o'clock.
He's Paul Danner Junior with his for another segment.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
I'm here till six Milford Buffalo Wild Wings on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 7 (34:06):
Autumn is in the air, and like the leaves, prices
are fun.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Downs and they're engraving the Ilary O'Brien Trophy.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
It's what's happening in the NBA. It's seven away from
four o'clock. Then a few minutes with our friend Paul
Dane or Junior. We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford.
Four weeks from today. The most significant thing happening in
the United States so America will be the NFL trade deadline,
which comes and goes if they haven't changed it at
four o'clock on that Tuesday. Bengals have four games between

(34:33):
now and then, so to me, it's cut and dry.
They're either going to be in it or out of it.
I don't think we're gonna be doing what we're doing now,
which is what we we've gone from last week.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Like man, big big game.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
You can't go one and four to now, like you know,
they can crawl their way back to five hundred and
then be five like we're doing it on Election Day.
On trade deadline day, they will either be in it
or out of it as it relates to either making
their team better for the stretch stretch drive or punting
and and and pointing the arrow toward twenty twenty five.

(35:09):
So let's let's first talk about this team. Maybe they're
four and five, Yeah, going to Baltimore, which I think
I would take. I take that four and five. They're
in it, They're in the mix. Yeah, Are they gonna
be buyers. Go get some help, get some guys who
can help on the pass rush, find a safety.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
No, I look, I can only go off history. We
can only go off what we know of the people
making these decisions.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
I mean, I always.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Revert back to twenty nineteen when it could not have
been clearer.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, right, of this is the prime. Okay, you need
to sell now, aj G. You known't the Blackburns in
Switzerland or something. I think they were Switzerland, It was not.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
It was a situation where they didn't have a win, right,
they were coming back from London. It was like they
there was no It was as clear cut as it
gets clear cut, and the focus of the organization at
the top at that point was just try to win
games this year and address.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
The off season and the offseason essentially. Now, maybe there's
lessons from that.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
They maybe there's looking back in retrospect and they have
changed since since and when Burrow came a lot of
things changed, right, So perhaps we've also seen trade deadlines
come and go since then, and they have had the
ability to go acquire to add on teams that had
Super Bowl aspirations and go a little bit more all.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
In and not done.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
That they have shown no desire to trade draft picks,
so we know that is probably off table.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
So we talk about assets they have, What do they have?
You know?

Speaker 4 (36:44):
So you get into these types of situations and I
feel like all I can do is go off of
what we know of the people making the decisions and
when they have been in the position to make these
decisions in the past, and almost across the board have
opted to sit on their hands. So do I think
that that's gonna happen. No, I don't think that that's

(37:05):
gonna happen. I'm certainly not gonna sit here like, oh, definitely,
they're gonna go get a big time defensive tackle. But
if and yes, everybody's sitting here saying, of course they
need to go get defensive help, it's gonna be so
clear you might be able to make a run if
you could get somebody to come in. Other teams will
make deals as well. I just I can't see it.

(37:27):
Maybe they surprise us, maybe this is the last box
they check on. That thing's gonna been different under Joe Burrow.
I just don't see that coming. Knowing what they their
view on this type of trade, deadline, that whole era
area is I just I just don't see it all right.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
So let's say things bottom out and they don't turn
it around, and we're sitting here four weeks from today
and the team's record is not good enough for them
to legitimately make a run. Let's say six two and
sex the right let me which I can't fathom as
bad as things have been, but let's they don't turn

(38:06):
it around their two and seven? Are they in cell mode?
Everybody's gonna bring up T Higgins, Well, it should be considered.
I know, I know you talked about five years ago
at twenty nineteen. You know they will win list in sell.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
I think it's a similar conversation. I think they're still
gonna say, look, we could run the table, right. I mean,
I'm just I'm just telling you. This is I'm telling
you what you're gonna hear.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Okay, they got to.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
As long as there's a chance and hopes alive, they're
gonna They're gonna try to have their best team go
out there.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
The the obvious big picture.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
They never wanted to feel like they waved the white
flag on a season ever.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Ever, Even if they need to tank for Joe Burrow
in Miami.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Ever, Okay, and so that is gonna be the ultimate
waving of the white flag. Now, will t be somebody
in his camp that would decide it's time to push
some of those buttons? What will Jamar Chase's reaction be
if this team is two and seven? Not saying he's
gonna demand a trade, but what is that vibe like

(39:09):
at that point in the entire locker across the locker room.
But I would say t is obviously the one where
you would start where you know, you know he's not
a part of your future theoretically, h So are you
gonna get something for him or not? I still I
talk about that the same way I just talked about
the other side of it. I still think it's a
it's a thing where they don't make the move, they
don't want to wave the white flag and wouldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
It would surprise me. It's not impossible. It would just
be very very out of character.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, well, I think I know people want I know
I know, and I'm not saying I wouldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
I'm not saying that they shouldn't feel pressured to do it.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
They obviously should obviously, but I can only go by
what we know.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
To me, of those two scenarios, the one that is
more difficult to digest as a fan is you've played
yourself back into it.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
You still know you're flawed, and you don't do anything
to address those flaws.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, because they could, they could jump back into things
and be they could be five and four. They can
win their next four games going to Baltimore. It doesn't
mean that all the stuff is fixed. It means that
guys are playing better. It means the defense has performed better.
It probably means the offense has continued to perform at
a very high rate. But the idea of having a
shot in early November, the trade deadline comes and goes

(40:25):
and they just don't even try to make the team better,
doesn't I don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
That doesn't sit well with me.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
No, nor should it, nor should I think especially the
league has just changed so much in the last ten years,
like the dead and teams have taken advantage of to
the point that it has propelled them. Sure d I mean,
look at Baltimore with Rokwan Christian mccaffaffre.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, we've seen this happen year and year out.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
Now where a one acquisition can, if it's the just
the right guy to set off with the one thing
you need, can make a difference.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And certainly you could see one.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Dominant guy helping to set off something with the Bengals defense,
although they get probably he's actually like four or five
of us.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
All right, Well, uh, awesome as always, Yeah, appreciate it,
and we'll be reading the Athletic dot com and listening
to the Growler podcast. Latest episode recorded earlier today is out.
Now go get it, as we say, where you get
your podcasts, and we'll see you next week.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
Looking forward to seeing Punch for Pizza at the Philly
Punch for pizza, and it's white Bengal, White Bengal, and
punts for.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Pizza, Huns for pizza. Do it right, all right, Hubert,
King of the Jungle. It is four o'clock.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
We're a Buffalo, Wild Wings and Milford on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
This is this the game, Joe where the third touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Zachary Taylor's man finally achieve a second win down Bang
listening as Joe Burrow and his Bengals. We will beat
blur and drink black when the first try from the
China Silk victory. Find out when you get the call
from Dan Hood at Dave Black what a dry. Coverage

(42:08):
starts Sunday at four on ESPN fifteen thirdly Official Home
of the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
All right, it's us. It's seven a half and four.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Of my apologies for being late to start the hour.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon, Moegger. We're here
at Buffalo Wild Wings. We just gave away a Bengals hoodie.
They're cool looking Bengals hoodies. We've got another one of
those thanks to bud Light. We've got the Bengals Cooler.
We've got buy one, get one half of traditional Wings.

(42:39):
We've got bud Light specials. We've got a beautiful day,
we've got a great spot. All we need is the
Bengals to be playing better. More on that coming up
in a little while, and we'll also hear from uc
head coach Scott Saderfield. The Bearcats are right now scheduled
to play at UCF on Saturday afternoon. Now, chances are

(43:00):
you know that a hurricane is bearing down on Florida,
Hurricane Milton, and obviously.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
That the more coastal parts of Florida.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
I'm not a weather person, but the more coastal parts
of Florida have been the primary focus of things like
evacuations and stuff of that nature. But they're obviously expecting
a lot of rain, They're obviously expecting high winds, and
so the school announced today you see, if they did
move some of their other athletic events today, Tomorrow and Thursday,

(43:33):
the game for Saturday is still on. I believe that
I saw USF, which had a game on Friday, they
have moved that to Saturday. My understanding is a decision
is going to be made kind of after the storm
comes and goes, and they expect that by midday on
Thursday they'll be in the clear.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
But as of right now, you see, and UCF.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Are still scheduled to play on Saturday at three point thirty.
More from Scott Satdfield, his first public comments since the
loss a week ald go Saturday to Texas Tech and
obviously getting said for this Saturday's game against UCF.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
We did the Tony and mol Football Show yesterday.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
If you missed it, go find it on the iHeartRadio app,
a service of our friends at Long Necks, and you
could hear everything we talked about in relation to the
Bengals and the loss to Baltimore on Sunday, which means
because we were so wall to wall with football, and
because I wasn't on on Friday due to Bengals pep rally,

(44:28):
we haven't had a chance to talk about Thursday night's news,
the Bengals hire or the Bengals the Reds hiring Terry Francona.
I guess two different immediate thoughts that are still my
two primary thoughts. First would be this as critical of
how the Reds handled David Bell's dismissal. I didn't like it,

(44:50):
And it wasn't so much that I didn't like the
idea of moving on from him as the manager. I think,
quite frankly, everybody's job and their role have been up
for examination. But I didn't like how they did it.
I thought it was a little skapegoatish. I thought that
doing it with five games to go was kind of weak.

(45:11):
I thought that doing it and not really acknowledging it
all that much publicly was kind of weak for a
guy that everybody acknowledges handled himself like a total pro
when he was the manager. Now that said that doesn't
mean that the next step can't be a positive one,
and that the next step can't, at least in part,
wash away some of the bad feelings or some of

(45:32):
the reasons why a lot of us criticized the Reds
in the aftermath of David Bell getting let go.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Terry Francona's resume speaks for itself.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
You don't need me to recite for you everything he
has done in the sport as a manager, managing in
three places, taking two different teams to the World Series,
an almost universally beloved figure in the sport, overseeing the
greatest comeback in the history of Major League Baseball, the
four Alcs, the Red Sox winning their first World since
nineteen eighteen in two thousand and four, following it up

(46:03):
with the World Series title in two thousand and seven,
a lot of really good years in Cleveland, coming this
closed and winning a World Series the year the Cubs
took him down in seven games in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Is I said, I.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Didn't need to run through his resume for you, and
I just did. I'll acknowledge this. You know, I've often wondered,
are the Reds as an organization going to be willing
to go and get the best in the world at
what they do, who are available, And maybe that's a
general manager, maybe that's somebody overseeing the minor league system.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Maybe that's a player at a certain position, It can
be manager.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I don't think David Bell was as bad as a
manager as a lot of people made him out to be,
but I could certainly understand some people's misgivings when it
came to David I'll be honest with you. We spent
more time this summer talking about some of his decisions
in the dugout than at any point since he took
over the team. But the reality is, if I'm looking
at the two resume side by side, it's not a contest.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
It just it isn't.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
It doesn't guarantee that Terry Francona is going to achieve
better results, But it just isn't.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
If you were to.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Look at all of the people available, all of the
people available that they could have hired to be the
Reds manager, at least in terms of accomplishment, Terry Francona
has them all be and it's not necessarily close. I
guess maybe you could argue that they should have gone
and hired Joe Madden personally, no thanks, but beyond that,

(47:35):
if it was just go find the most proven, the
most accomplished, I think, the most respected, the most beloved
person for this job.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
They could not have done any better.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
I don't know how you could argue that they could
have done any better. So I give them credit for
doing it. Man, give him credit for you know, you
didn't get the sense that they were going to replace
David Bell with somebody who had never been a manager before.
You got the sense this was going to be somebody
who had some experience, but experience plus accomplishment. It's through

(48:17):
the roof. There are a couple of different things here.
What is about Terry Francona's background as a manager, And look,
he went to Boston, which is I think not an
easy place to manage and had incredible success, historic success.
But his time in Cleveland, you know, the Guardians, the
Indian slash Guardians, got really good for a while, and

(48:41):
they've become good again at getting through their system and
developing and winning with really good homegrown talent. And not
that there weren't players from other franchises. Let's just look
at that twenty sixteen team, not that there weren't players
from other franchise that had a hand in the Indians,

(49:01):
and they were the Indians at the time getting to
the World Series. But Terry Francona had a team that
there were a lot of guys who came through that system.
Francisco Lindor was twenty two years old when they won
the American League championship. Jose Ramirez was twenty three years
old when they won that American League championship. There were
you look at that starting staff and it was Trevor

(49:23):
Bauer who was twenty five and Corey Kluber I think
was twenty.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Nine years old. And so you know, now obviously.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
The players who had come from other teams were on
that club as well. But did a good job, and
not just in twenty sixteen, working with a team that
got really good at producing young talent, working with young talent,
helping polishing off that young talent once it got to
the big leagues.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
And say what you want.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
About what we want the Reds to do in free
agency or how we want them to spend. At the
end of the day, the success of the Cincinnati Reds
is going to be predicated on how good they are
at acquiring, developing and winning with homegrown talent. And then
there are other questions about the team's willingness to spend,
and I know Terry answered some of those questions at

(50:10):
his press conference yesterday.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
I thought, when the.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Rangers hired Bruce Bochie, like, that's a guy who's going
to the Hall of Fame one day, an amazing resume.
Why would he come out of retirement and what I'm
sure was a comfortable lifestyle if he's going to be
asked to babysit. I had the same thought about Terry Francona.
Not that Terry Francona will have the same instant success
that Bruce Bochie had in Texas, but I cannot imagine

(50:41):
that he is being that he's coming out of retirement
if he doesn't genuinely feel this is a smart baseball man, and,
by the way, a smart baseball man who, if he
really decided he wanted to manage again, could could, probably
to a small degree, at least have his pick of jobs.
I'm going to guess that he walked away, and I'm

(51:04):
not going to guess. I'm gonna take him at his
word that he walked away from his conversations with the
people who run the Reds and felt comfortable about the
fact that he was coming here to do more than
just babysit. There's also the financial commitment. I when they
let David Bell go, A was the first to wonder, like, God,
you're really going to pay two managers at once, and

(51:26):
how is this going to play in the clubhouse? That
you're willing to pay a manager to go away, but
you didn't make the team better by using resources to
acquire players from the outside in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
To me, moving.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Forward, the fact that they're paying Terry Francona and David
Bell and putting a considerable amount of resources into the
job of manager would suggest that while they might not
su spend irresponsibly and while they they'll never have the
sort of payroll that rivals that of the Dodgers or

(52:00):
Phillies or.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yankees, that they view these the next two.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Three four years as a window inside which it makes
sense and is important to go and invest and invest
in the roster. And so I'm really excited about this.
I certainly hope that you know, when spring training starts,
we're still not talking about the manager. If the manager

(52:27):
is the biggest off season acquisition. Then the off season
didn't go so well. But as first steps go in,
what is a crucial pivotal off season for this franchise,
and it is it is a pivotal off season. Look,
this plan that the Reds started with in early twenty
twenty two only works if in the coming years they win.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
And there's a lot of questions about the roster. They
need help. They need a thumper.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
They need a guy who can hit the ball over
the wall a bunch of times, thirty to thirty five times.
They need outfield production, they need the slop to get
clean up. They've got to be better defensively, They've got
to be better on the bases. They have a major
question mark regarding just the reliability of the starting staff.
There's a lot of talent there, but there right now
is nobody who's gotten through a full big league season.

(53:14):
But if this is the first step in what should
be and what is a very important offseason, then that
first step tells me that the idea here is to
use the off season to make substantial improvements to the team.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Maybe they will, maybe.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
They won't, But hiring Terry Francona tells me that they're
taking seriously what they have in front of them, not
just what they need to do to make the team better,
but the existing core that is certainly worth building.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Around eighteen after four.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Sean Sayet is going to join us at five twenty,
as he does every single week, to break down the
Bengals as we look ahead to Sunday night Bengals v.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Giants on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Meanwhile, Scott Sadafield talk today u SE is getting set
to play its second consecutive conference road game at UCF.
We'll hear from the head coach of the Bearcats when
we come back. We're a Buffalo Wild Wings Milford on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station cincinnatises the Bengals Cincinnatis
ESPN fifteen thirty Night twenty four and for four o'clock,

(54:24):
this is ESPN fifteen thirty. We are broadcasting from Buffalo
Wild Wings in Milford right off I two seventy five.
Some of the Bengals are here, and we've got some
cool prizes thanks to our friends at bud Light. On
top of buy one, get one half of traditional Wings.
So get here between now and six o'clock we'll do

(54:44):
more on the Reds and Terry Francona coming up here
in a bit. Scott satafield talk today references to the
top of the hour, Hurricane Milton is going to be
hitting Florida, going to be sort of rolling through Central
Florida obviously where Orlando is and we're UCF is and
so right now.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
The game is scheduled for Saturday at three thirty.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
That could change based on how things unfold over the
next I guess twenty four to thirty six hours. Here
is the head coach of the Bearcats during his Tuesday
media availability, talking about the process and uncertainty this week
with the incoming hurricane.

Speaker 8 (55:22):
You know, our our administration, our people are in contact
with the Big twelve office as well as Central Florida,
and as of right now, I mean everything's.

Speaker 7 (55:30):
Just like it would be. You know, we're gonna go
down Friday, play Saturday, So that's something changes.

Speaker 8 (55:35):
I think, you know, it's a little bit of a
wait and see approach to see how, you know, as
it comes in tomorrow, to see, you know, how it
affects everybody.

Speaker 7 (55:43):
And then kind of go from there.

Speaker 8 (55:44):
But I mean, it looks like on the weather Saturday
is gonna it will be a nice day Saturday, you know.
But obviously what happens between then is going to determine
what we end up doing. But as of right now,
everything's on and so for us, I mean, we can't
control any of that anyway.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
You know.

Speaker 7 (55:58):
For us, we're just doing everything we can to get
ready to go play a game on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Scott Sadderfield earlier today, Obviously you see us coming off
a loss to Texas Tech a week ago this past Saturday,
a game in which the Berecats scored forty one points,
and as frustrating as the defeat itself was, offensively, they
often did what they wanted to do on a night
where they kept losing running backs, on a night where
they were down a couple of receivers, and still we're

(56:27):
in a position to tie or take the lead in
the final two minutes of the game. And there are
a lot of guys that Brendan Soars we could take
advantage of. Here is Scott Saderfield on that topic today.

Speaker 7 (56:39):
Yeah, I'm going back to that last drive.

Speaker 8 (56:41):
I mean, I don't know how many plays he ran
the last drive, but I felt like it was about
a different defense every time. I mean, there's a lot
of different defenses out there. They threw everything at us
to try to slow us down, and you know, Brandon
was doing a great job of recognizing what they were
in and finding the open guy.

Speaker 7 (56:55):
And it wasn't just like you mentioned, it wasn't just
the one guy.

Speaker 8 (56:58):
You know, We're trying to find multiple guys taking what
the defense gives us.

Speaker 7 (57:02):
And we gave ourself a chance. You know, we got down.

Speaker 8 (57:04):
We ran out of time, you know, for a couple
of different reasons, but we ran out of time, you know,
and unfortunately didn't knock down the field goal to give
ourself a chance to go win it overtime. But I think,
you know, that's the one thing we have to continue
to be able to do, and Brendan does a quarterback,
is to always take what the defense gives us and
not try to force the ball. I mean, if we
you know, if we hit the underneath when they're all sinking,

(57:24):
that's great. That's that's what we got to do. And
I think he's got to continue to do that. And
you know, I think the guys around him within the
offense are good enough to get yards and first downs
and touchdowns and we've seen that throughout the season, so
we just got to be able to continue to do that.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
UCF, by the way, is a three point favorite in
this game. The Knights are coming off a loss on
the road at Florida last week, and prior to that,
a home blowout loss, a decisive one forty eight to
twenty one at the hands of Colorado, and so the
bloom has kind of come off the three and zero start.
They're talking about this as a rivalry game in Orlando,

(58:02):
something else that's kind of interesting with that team they've lost.
I think the latest number was five players who have
already decided to transfer with more than half a season remaining.
And look, I'm I'm the first to tell you. I'm
I'm I like the I like I like some of
the changes the college football and college sports. I like
the fact that you can transfer without sitting out a
year at least once. I love the flat the fact

(58:25):
that the players are getting paid. I do think this
is an unfortunate byproduct of kind of the times that
we're in, and like, at at some point it's it's
just gonna be on the individual players to honor the
commitment they made to a team at the same time,
you can play four games and not have it count
against you in terms of a red shirt. And so
you know you have some guys who are using what's

(58:46):
available to them, but you do hate to see it,
and you would hate to see it if you were
your team.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Uh, the season has started to go sour. There's time
to go. We can jump, we can transfer, we can.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Enroll at a new school as soon as the next
semester begins, and it does obviously compromise the team that
you are leaving, But competitively, I think only one starter,
Byron Threats, former Bearcat, was among the players who had
transferred to UCF. He has since left the Knights, But
that is a component in this game on Saturday that

(59:18):
Pike and I talked about it a little bit yesterday.
Really feels like kind of a swing game. I don't
think anybody went into the season thinking that uc could
compete for a Big twelve title.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
But we talked about getting to six.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Wins, having Bowl eligibility, getting to seven wins, and clearly
obviously being ball eligible. I think you win this one
on Saturday, you could really start to talk about that
being a goal that's within grasp, especially with an Arizona
State team that I think the Bearcats would be favored
against a week from Saturday. Lose this one, and as

(59:51):
we often say about the Bengals, at one in four,
then the math gets a little tricky. It's a four
point thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty. More tonight, Scott Saddafields
radio show eight o'clock on seven hundred WLW, It's four
thirty sports headlines and back to the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
We're here at twin Peaks. Twin Peaks were.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Buffalo Wild Wings. Uh in Milford, Buffalo Wild Wings. Look, man,
you put me in enough places, I'm gonna screw it
up once. Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford is where we
are on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
You've been listening to football in Thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:00:32):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteenth thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
This is the game.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Shoe where the's third touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Zach Taylor's men finally achieve a second window. Bangal listening
as Joe Burrow and his Bengals rible New York's hecksgob
we will beat boring Thin Black wins the first for
trial from the Chamaso victory. Find out when you get
the call from Dan Hood.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
At What Try.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Coverage starts Sunday at four on ESPN fifteen. Term the
official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Sports headlines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of
lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life kelseyschev dot Com.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Bengals made it official.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Tax Hill and Jackson Kirkland go on IR with their
respective injuries suffered during Sunday's loss to the Baltimore Ravens.
With Hill, it's that knee injury the torn acl and
with Kirkland it's the torn biceps. Cincinnati signed tackle Andrew
Stuber to the active roster from Atlanta's practice squad. He
is a excuse me, first year player for Michigan, originally

(01:01:46):
taken by the Patriots in the seventh round of the
twenty twenty two draft. Spent the first five games of
this season on the Falcons practice squad. Also Cincinnati signing
cornerback Micah Abram to the practice squad, a rookie from
Marshall six round pick of Indie who was not with
an NFL team during the first five weeks of the
regular season. Bengals players off today in New Jersey on

(01:02:07):
Sunday night for a game against the Giants.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
That game kicks off at eight.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Twenty and you'll hear it live on ESPN fifteen thirty.
The first head coach to be fired. If you had
Robert Sala in your pool, get your money. The Jets
letting him go. Reds have let loose their three hitting coaches.
Derek Johnson, the team's pitching coach and director of pitching,
is set to return. Baseball playoffs continue National League Division series.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
All four division series are.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Tied at a game apiece, Mets and Phillies in New
York getting underway in about thirty minutes, and Padres hosting
the Dodgers Game three of that series, again both tied
at a game apiece. And news from UC basketball Tyler
McKinley unfortunately out for the season with a knee injury
that confirmed today by Wes Miller twenty one away from

(01:02:58):
four o'clock. So we talked in great detail yesterday and
earlier on the show with Paul about overtime on Sunday
and what the Bengals chose to do. And you know,
let's be honest, man, as much as I don't like
how Zach Taylor handled it, as much as I don't

(01:03:20):
really completely buy the explanations, the reality is, I guess
there's two different realities. Number One, if Evan McPherson makes
the kick, which happens in all likelihood, if Ryan Rico
successfully holds the ball, Bengals win the game, and we
might have still broke down Zach Taylor's decision making, but

(01:03:42):
without the ire and venom that has been aimed at
him in the aftermath of that game. Also, the game
maybe never should have come to that. It came to
that for a lot of different reasons. It came to
that because the Bengals couldn't finish the game on offense
up by three, had the football last four minutes, Joe
Burrow throws a pick Now, Joe was awesome on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Put up MVP caliber numbers.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Was he and Jamar Chase and t Higgins The reason
why that team was in a position to win offensively,
they had three different ten point leads.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
In the second half.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
You're supposed to win that game, and the offense did
enough but with a chance to close the game out,
Joe Burrow threw a pick. Whether it's on Joe, whether
it's on Jamar frankly irrelevant to me. Whether it's a
great play by Marlon Humphrey, irrelevant to me. Bengals in
a situation where they could have closed out the game,
couldn't do it with their offense. But the primary reason

(01:04:42):
why that game was lost was Cincinnati gave up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Forty one points.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Cincinnati had its defense on the field three times in
the second half with a ten point lead and maybe
not in a situation to close out the game, but
completely grab control of it and maybe be another offense
score away from salting the game away.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
So that's the biggest reason.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
What I want to know is between now and Sunday,
or now and the Baltimore game, the next one they
have four weeks from Thursday.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
How does this get fixed? Because like gets and I've
done it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
You could go back in time and kind of relitigate
the decision to not bring back Jesse Bates, a decision
that has not worked out and has had a lot
of different reverberations, And we could talk about firing Luanna
Rumo and everybody now wants to hire Robert Salin. What
are they going to do this offseason to the defense? Well,
first of all, they're not firing Louen and Rumo today.

(01:05:43):
That's not to say they won't bring up or discuss
moving on from him this offseason. If things continue the
way they have gone and we can't hit the fast
forward button and get to a point where they can
start drafting players for the defense or adding guys via
free agency, how does this get fixed?

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Because I agree with those who have said at one
in four the season is not over.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Like I think it's ridiculous to look at this team
and how it's played on offense and make the assertion
that at one and four they're cooked. First of all,
there's twelve games to go. Secondly, this offense is legitimately
playing great. They scored one hundred and five points over
the last three games. Joe is playing at a high level.

(01:06:27):
They've got depth on offense, They've got a variety of weapons.
The thing that matters to me most right now, and
this is probably gonna be challenged at some point, but
they're remarkably healthy on offense. They're getting some decent play
from the offensive line. Chase and Higgins were both great,
Chase was otherworldly. We love the tight ends like it's

(01:06:49):
a good offense. There's a lot of talent there for
the most part, is playing very well. I think they've
become really difficult to defend, and it all starts with
the quarterback, who is playing extraordinarily well. This is as
effective and as efficient as the Bengals have played on
offense in a three game stretch since Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Burrow got here.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
And while they might not score thirty eight points on
Sunday Night, while they might not combine for one hundred
and five points over the next three games, as long
as this unit is healthy, as long as Joe Burrow
is healthy, then I think we all have every reason
to feel like offensively, this team's going to be okay offensively.
And as long as that is the case, you cannot
convince me that we should be talking about the draft

(01:07:30):
next year, or who's going to be let go, or
should they tank, or even who should they trade away
at the trade deadline.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
This season is not over.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
I believe that wholeheartedly. The frustrating thing, though, is the
ceiling is lower. This was supposed to be a year
where I don't know what super Bowl or bust means.
I guess it means it's either you win the whole
thing or the seasons of failure. But I think most
of us, or at least a lot of us, went
into the season thinking the Bengals were on that short

(01:07:59):
list of teams that you really felt like could win
the whole thing, that you really felt like could challenge
for a title, get back to the super Bowl and
maybe even win it. It's hard to feel that way
right now, Like it's I think it's it's impossible, at
least for me to tay you that I think the
season is over at one and four. I think it's irresponsible,

(01:08:21):
it's premature. I think that ignores how good the offense
has been. But the fact that we're even having this
conversation is a reflection of a defense that is atrocious.
And part of the frustration with that for me is
like we didn't we didn't expect them to be great.

(01:08:44):
Like if you went into the season thinking Bengals are
gonna win the whole thing, They're gonna go twelve and
five or thirteen and four and win the AFC North
and be highly seeded, you didn't do that because you thought, God,
you know what, their defense is gonna be awesome. You
thought the defense was gonna be just good. Like, we
have set the bar really, really really low for this

(01:09:04):
defense and it can't even meet it can't even come
close to clearing it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
That's deeply frustrating.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
And until that gets fixed, like, there is gonna be
a point where if they keep losing games, you do
throw up your hands and go mathematically it just doesn't work.
I'm not there at one in four, be honest with you, man,
I'm not even completely sure I'm gonna be there at
one in five. But the reality is the schedule does
it gives them some opportunity. They're favored on Sunday against
New York. My guess is they're gonna be favored against

(01:09:34):
the Browns even on the road, even considering the two
teams recent history with each other. My guess is they're
favored at home against Philadelphia, And I think I'm pretty
comfortable and saying they're gonna be favored at least where
things stand right now in that game against Vegas on
November the third. So there are some beatable teams, there
are some winnable games. There are some games where you

(01:09:54):
look at the two quarterbacks, and you feel much much
better about the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
But defense is this bad. It does two things.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Number one, it shrinks the margin of error or margin
four air for your offense.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
We saw that on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Number two, it means that you can't take any opponent
for granted, right Not that you're supposed to do that anyway,
but we all love to look at the schedule and go, Okay, well,
here's a win, here's a win, there's one they can win,
maybe there's a loss.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
You can't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
If there's anything that this team has proven through five weeks,
it's that you cannot do that. They were supposed to
clabber the Patriots, who right now look like the worst
team in the league.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Didn't happen.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
They were supposed to hammer the Washington Commanders, which, to
be fair, they look really good offensively. They are as
efficient as anybody in the league right now, and nobody
thought that they were Clobb or Baltimore. But this team
is not supposed to be one and four, in large
part because the NFL gave it an early favorable schedule.
Right now, you can't take any team for granted. If
you're a fan, because defensively, who are they supposed to stop?

(01:10:55):
Who are they supposed to stop? Who are they supposed
to get in the way of? I guess the good
news is, again the bar is relatively low. If this
team plays offensively the way it has defensively, they could
probably give up three or four touchdowns a game and
still be okay. But I do think we've had to
recalibrate what our large scale expectations for this season were.

(01:11:15):
I don't believe the season is over, but in no
way could you reasonably talk about this team competing for
a championship this year. That might sound like an obvious statement,
that's not an obvious statement I was supposed to be
making this year. And there is something about worrying about
wasting what you have, right. I talk about this with
the Reds all the time, wasting Joey Vado, and you

(01:11:38):
can't waste Elie Dela Cruz, and you can't waste some
of the young pitching.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
You can't. You can't waste offense like this.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
And you might go, well, they've got Joe Burrow forever,
and chances are they're still gonna sign Jamar Chase. And
there's a lot of validity to that, but just understanding
how it works and how many years are they gonna
have an offense that looks like this, that's performing like this,
as healthy as this, How many years like right now
looks like t Higgins is gonna be on the team
next year?

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
What are you gonna do with his spot?

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
So there's something about not wasting what they're doing, and
that is also deeply frustrating. So the question now is
how can they get the defense fixed to the point
that it shrinks the margin for air for the offense,
helps take advantage of how the offense is doing, and
helps get a season back on track that I don't
believe has been yet completely derailed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
But more than anything, can they get.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
To a point at any point is it at all
realistic at any point this year that we start to
talk about the Bengals in the same terms we were
talking about them before the season began. With the way
they have played defensively so far this year, you have
a hard time convincing me the answer is yes, even
if you can't convince me that it's worth putting on

(01:12:52):
the season. At one and four, eleven away from five o'clock,
we're here at Buffalo Wild Wings and Milford. We could
open the phone lines five one three fifteen thirty and
eight sixty six seven oh two three seven seven six.
Sean Sayed from Sumer Sports is gonna join us. He
is always good. Coming up in just about a half
hour on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Hey, it's Moegor with my guy John seven away from
five o'clock. It's not the d L.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Milford till six o'clock.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
We are.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
We're giving away another Bengals hoodie thanks to bud Light.
We're giving away the Bengals cooler thanks to bud Light.
And uh, we've got the Bengal cheerleaders here, not all
of them, a couple of them here hanging out with
us and we're.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Having a blast.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
We've got buy one, get one half off Traditional Wings.
Can I ask a question about an NFL team that
a doesen't that isn't the Bengals. So that the Jets
canned their coach Robert sala today and that's fine. I
watched that game in London on Sunday. They lost the Vikings,
and it kind of felt like Robert Salah was as

(01:14:04):
we say, a dead man walking when they let him go. Today,
Robert Salah, according to reports, showed up to work and
was informed that he was being let go and they
made him walk through the building in front of everybody
with security escorting him out.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
What what did? What were they afraid he was going
to do? What? What were they afraid? Like? What was
Robert Salah going to do? That? They had to do that?
Like I work in the corporate world. I mean, like
I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
I know, I know sometimes how how weird it can
be when when people get let go. But I mean,
I don't know, make the man walk out with a
security person with him, ensuring that he's not going to
like steal playbooks like he's a head coach. He you
haven't the playbook. They wasn't gonna walk out with proprietary information.

(01:15:05):
He's gonna throw some sort of temper tantrum. Like I know,
there were hr protocols that sometimes companies have to follow,
Like Marvin Lewis got let go by the Bengals and
in one of the classier moves I've seen, held a
press conference immediately afterward, and like Marvin Lewis had more

(01:15:27):
pelts on the wall with the Bengals than Robert Salah
ever did was here for sixteen years. But like they
Bengals allowed him the platform of being able to answer questions,
talk with the media, say whatever he was going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
And I'm sure they.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Didn't anticipate him doing anything that would have embarrassed either.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Him or the team.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
But like they they let him walk out with some dignity,
Like I don't know Robert Salad deserved that. I'm like,
what were they what were they a free What did
I think was going to happen if they let him
go and then just let him leave on his own,

(01:16:08):
Like they could have told him like, hey man, you
can't stick around, You're gonna have to go come back,
We'll mail your stuff to you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
That sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
Escored him out with security, like you imagine being let go,
and that's that's what they are gonna have a security now,
like not like the HR person or not like a
trusted friend that you work with that's gonna like see
you to the door, but a security person. Security detail.
I I'm I'm curious about that. I would I would

(01:16:37):
want to know that from the general manager or the
owner of the New York Jets Woody Johnson a couple
of minutes away from five o'clock. You can send a
tweet anytime at Mulgar thanks to our friends at Delta Dental.
Delta Dental is building healthy, smart, vibrant communities for all good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
At Delta Dental, oh dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
We're at Buffalo, Wild Wings and Milford here until six o'clock.
So if you're just getting off work, come on out
and hang out with us. Have an ice called bud Light.
It's wings when a cooler say hello. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 6 (01:17:09):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 9 (01:17:13):
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Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
This report is sponsored.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Four on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Hi, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
It's five at for five.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
It's the bud Light five o'clock Happy Hour AUDISCS five bier.
We're here Pablo Wild Wings in Milford, and we're a
gentleman just walked up, asked a good question about Zach
Taylor freezing his kicker in overtime on Sunday, something else
that didn't make sense, and said, didn't know we were
here until he turned on the radio, and here we were,

(01:18:17):
so we appreciate him coming out. We're at b dubs.
If you haven't been to the Milford location. First of all,
if you live in Milford, if you live in the
Milford area, chances are you know where we are. But
we're right off I two seventy five, very easy to
get to on Tuesdays. We've got buy one, get one
half off traditional Wings. Right, We've got bud Light specials.

(01:18:39):
We've got some cool swag to give away. We've got
an awesome Bengals cooler. We've got a couple of Bengal.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Cheerleaders here helping us out in production to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
We've got a Bengals hoody to give away thanks to
bud Light.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
So get here between now at six o'clock. And I
mentioned this last week.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
We're at the Cole Raid location and the general who
won the cooler, I think he got like offers from
people looking to buy it from him. So if you
win it, and you're like, man, you know what, I
already have a cooler.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
I have enough coolers.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
You could probably get somebody to pay you for that
thing if you win it. So I get here between
now and six o'clock. Also very quickly, a shout out
to Jennifer Davis. I'm told she listens every single day.
It says it here on this napkin shout out. Jennifer
Davis listens every day. Jennifer's friends are cheering for her.

(01:19:32):
Apparently they didn't invite her to come drinking with him,
but nonetheless, Jennifer Davis listens every day. And so hi, Jennifer,
your friends are here at beat Ubs having fun without you.
Sean sayed on the Bengals from a summer sports coming
up in just about fifteen minutes. From a news perspective,
nothing really earth shattering today. Dax Hill, Jackson Kirkland, the

(01:19:55):
two guys that we knew yesterday were done for the season,
have both been placed on injured resent. From a Reds perspective,
the news of the day would be that they fired
their three hitting coaches. But by the way, I asked
this not to be funny, I legitimately had no idea
they had three hitting coaches. Having three hitting coaches might
be fine, But if you have three hitting coaches, I

(01:20:15):
guess you have to achieve better results than the Reds
hitting coaches did this year. Derek Johnson, who is highly
respected the team's director of pitching and the pitching coach,
is back, and so that would be your Red's news.
The other piece of local sports news as of today,
Central Florida announces that the game on Saturday is still
on for three thirty Saturday UC and UCF, but that obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Could change the way things unfold.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
From a weather perspective, with Hurricane Milton bearing down, I
talked about this with Paul Dayner Junior a little bit
from the Athletic In the first hour of the show.
Four weeks from today is the NFL's trade deadline. It's
also for what it's worth Election Day, but in my world,
far more important and something that I'll actually talk about

(01:21:05):
is the trade deadline. Four weeks from today. The Bengals
have four games between now and then, so we can
look at the rest of the schedule and maybe take
some solace in the fact that the schedule is still
reasonably easy. You know, if you look at the AFC North, yeah,
there's one more game against Baltimore. I'll be honest with you.

(01:21:25):
Pittsburgh doesn't scare me. Cleveland doesn't scare me. Just if
I'm looking at those teams, and then you know what
the outside of division portion of their schedule holds.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
They're one and four, but.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
With this offense, you can't consider them done. You may disagree.
I can't consider them done, but I'm making a four
game season because on November the fifth trade deadline day,
I think one of.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
Two things is going to be true.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
Either you're going to have a team with a bad record,
so bad that it's impossible to imagine them jumping back
into the mix, and it's time to hit the eject button.
Time to start focusing on next year and thus time

(01:22:15):
to maybe trade away some players that aren't gonna be
a part of your future t Higgins maybe being one
of them, or you're gonna have a team that has
played itself into the mix but still needs help. Like,
what's not gonna happen is even if the Bengals run
the table between now and then, we look at their

(01:22:36):
team and go, yep, we're good here, Duke Tobin didn't
need to do anything. Everything's fixed. It it ain't, it
ain't gonna be that you just because you were playing
well doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking to make your
team better. And so now part of this is part
of the conversation is well, what are the Bengals. What's
Duke Tobin going to do? What's ownership going to do?
Are they actually going to embrace using the trade deadline

(01:23:01):
to make the team better or to hit the eject
button on the season?

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
Fair question.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
I have watched the Bengals in recent years, though deviate
from what they typically do. Right, They jumped in free
agency in twenty twenty and did it to for the
most part, a lot of success. Throw a lot of
money at the defense, they've used off season trades, in fact,
used offseason trades to their benefit. They've you know, even

(01:23:27):
with Jamar Chase, they negotiated a contract. They didn't get
it done, didn't I guess, successfully negotiate the contract, but
for years, won't negotiate deals while the player still has
two years or more remaining on his contract.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Yet, what did they do with Jamar Chase?

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
They showed a willingness to step outside their comfort zone
and do something they typically won't do. When you start
doing that, as far as I'm concerned, I never again
want to hear quote that's just not what they do.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
That's just not what they're comfortable doing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
When you start stepping out of your comfort zone, I
don't need to hear about your comfort zone anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Right So, what I'm curious and what I want to.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
Know over the next four weeks what's the theme gonna
be as the deadline gets closer?

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:24:12):
From a win loss record perspective, obviously, if they win
their next four games, they're in contention. If they win
their next four games, who knows what they'll be in
relation to first place in the AFC North. It'll set
up a huge matchup that there's in that game against Baltimore,
but we'll be talking about them being in it four
and five, four and five. I still think they're in it,
right And that's without really examining what every team schedule is.

(01:24:35):
Beyond that three and six, certainly two and seven, definitely
one and eight. It's gonna be really hard to convince
ourselves that this team has a legitimate chance.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
So that's what I want to know. That's the theme
of the next four weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
Do they put themselves in a position where they have
played them They have played themselves into contention, They've rectified
at least some of the things on defense. They're still
enough of a high end offensively that you want to
give this team a shot.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
You want to give this team a shot, and not that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
You're going to acquire any one player that's going to
take you from middling contender to the best team in
the NFL. But come on, even if they win three
of their next four or their next four games, mean
to tell me they can't use some help on defense.
You mean to tell me this team couldn't use an upgrade.
You mean to tell me that between now and then,
there's not an area that's been affected by injury they

(01:25:27):
need to address, or if things continue to go south,
is it gonna be time to punt? Is it gonna
be time to take a good hard look at what
the market might be for a guy and te Higgins,
who's not going to be a Bengal in twenty twenty
five in all likelihood, That's the theme of the next
four weeks. What conversations are created by the time the

(01:25:49):
Bengals are done playing that game against the Raiders, all
the way up until four o'clock two days later. What's
the approach going to be on the deadline? What's the
right thing to do at the deadline?

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Beyond that, nothing else really matters all that much. So
that's the theme of the next few weeks. The other
thing with this defense, and we'll spend a little bit
more time on this later on, is it's frustrating watching
this team play defensively. It's frustrating watching them not be
able to hold on to ten point leads in the
second half. It's frustrating watching Lamar jacks And by the way,

(01:26:22):
part of the reason why the Bengals loss was Lamar
Jackson did some other worldly things, like they're not gonna
take away your Bengals.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Hat if you say that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
But the frustrating thing from a defensive perspective isn't just
that they're bad this year. It's that they were bad
last year too. Right, Like two years ago, or I
guess a year and a half ago, the Rets had
a contending team, but around the trade deadline, the starting

(01:26:54):
pitching stunk. That's not a subjective take, like, by every
reasonable measurement, the Reds had some of the worst pitching
in the sport. So the next two months, one third
of the season, the Reds go from contender to a
team that ultimately didn't make the postseason. The main reason

(01:27:18):
why was the starting pitching continued to stink. There was
no real effort made to make the starting pitching any better.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
That was frustrating.

Speaker 3 (01:27:29):
Here's this obvious weakness and you didn't do anything to it,
and then the obvious.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Weakness torpedoed their season.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
Now we're not gonna pretend the Bengals didn't address their
defense this offseason. They took McKinley Jackson, and they took
Chris Jenkins, and they did sign Sheldon Rankins, and they've
used a lot of draft picks on defense that they
at least hope by now would be you know, contributing
members of the team. They signed Geno Stone, by the way,
a signing that I really liked. I'm not gonna pretend

(01:27:58):
that I didn't, But the Bengals last year had a
really crappy defense and whether it was an inability or
an unwillingness, and I think it was more of an
inability than an unwillingness, Duke Tobin didn't fix it, And
to me, like, that's that's one of the things you
judge personnel people by, like what do you do to

(01:28:18):
address your biggest weaknesses? And what's not excusable is unwillingness,
but also it's not excusable is inability. Part of it's
on the coaches. Part of it is on the coaches
to develop. And I understand all that, but also we
weren't asking them to take the defense from last year
and turn it into a top three unit, top five unit.
We were asking them to take last year's defense and

(01:28:40):
turn it into I don't know, like the seventeenth or
eighteenth best unit. So that's why I focus on the
front office, and then that's why I talk a lot
about you know, frustration with what they've done with that
side of the ball, but also what the plan is
going to be next because are we really gonna do
the same thing next year? You really trust Duke Tobin

(01:29:03):
to take back to back seasons of bad defense.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
Understanding the financial I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
Want to say restrictions because there's going to be money
to spend, but it's different than it was in twenty
twenty one when they just threw a bunch of money
at the defense. We're really gonna trust Duke Tobin to
do this offseason, but to this point, at least to
this point, he couldn't do last offseason, and that's take
a bad defense and make it okay. Sixteen minutes after
five o'clock, to Sean said, still believe the Bengals can

(01:29:33):
make the playoffs that coming up in just a few
minutes and will bounce back to the Reds in the
aftermath of Terry Francona being hired a lot to get to.
Between now and six o'clock, we're at Buffalo Wild Wings
in Milford on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
This is Football in the Natti, brought to you in
part by Blood Light and by Skyline Shiley on the
official home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):
Twenty three after five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
Leg Or our buddy Sean Sayatt is with us part
of the Stats and the Scheme podcast, also the Monday
Morning Mashup column on Sumer Sports, and you can follow
Sean on x at say Ed Schemes. Uh, Sean, I'm
not in a good mood after Sunday still, but nonetheless
good to have you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
What's going on?

Speaker 10 (01:30:24):
Oh, I appreciate that.

Speaker 11 (01:30:26):
I you know, after that loss on Sunday, I thought
first about what our phone call would be like, and.

Speaker 10 (01:30:31):
Then you know, yesterday I watched the tape.

Speaker 11 (01:30:32):
I spent a little bit of time looking at the
AFC standings, and I don't know, maybe we end this
call with a little bit of positivity.

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
All right, Well, first we're gonna talk about you watching
the tape, because look, you can watch the offensive tape
and there's a billion positive things to discuss, and we will.
But they lose the game because they give up forty
one points, and so they tried to blitz Lamar Jackson
forty one times on Sunday. I know you studied that,
walk me through that approach and how flawed or correct

(01:31:01):
it was.

Speaker 11 (01:31:02):
You know, we've talked a few weeks now about how
the Bengals have had a tough time generating pressure, and
you know you've got to try something. So you send
a bunch of extra rushers, and you find some ways
where teams like the Dolphins have historically had a little
bit of a good fortune with Brian Floyd's where you
send some of those kind of cover zero pressures where
it looks like there's just four guys kind of standing
out there in coverage and now you're sending seven rushers.

Speaker 10 (01:31:25):
So I'd like the.

Speaker 11 (01:31:26):
Kind of idea of that from a pass rush perspective,
Lamar I thought played just like a superhero game. I mean,
there's some plays where I know bengalsan don't want to
be replaying those kind of ending up in touchdowns. But
I thought even in the run game, the Bengals made
a real concerted effort to just stuff the box, just
throw extra bodies at the problem where they obviously get
a little bit healthier up front, you get some new

(01:31:47):
guys on that interior defensive line, But.

Speaker 10 (01:31:50):
From a plan perspective, I thought it was fine. Up
from an execution perspective, of course, it.

Speaker 11 (01:31:55):
Was a lot to be desired, particularly you know, Dave
Wowers had a really good kind of on the outside.
Of course, the Bengals get another injury at cornerback and
then it starts to feel like, hey, the answers for
this defense though maybe there won't be any.

Speaker 3 (01:32:12):
So I think when when you see a quarterback complete
a lot of passes to open targets, the conclusion that
a lot of people draw is the defense is slow
to a degree.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
That's a bit of a subjective term.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
When you watch them on film, do you see a
slow defense in particular in the secondary?

Speaker 11 (01:32:33):
You know, it's sometimes that does kind of pop up,
But then there's also just like kind of alignment errors.
It feels like or some miscommunication where you know you're
supposed to be in a certain spot or someone has
to be in that spot based on the call, but
then now you have two guys that are kind of
covering the same area. So it's a little bit I
think maybe a connection of just the physical the players

(01:32:53):
that are on the field, but also I think just
like how some of the execution just it makes it
almost feel alone will get slower, so they do. They're
gonna have calls that I think take a little bit
of stress off the cornerbacks, but offenses are gonna find
ways to kind of have one on ones, where of course,
that's what the Bengals do on offense. And if you
can't kind of stop the pass in any sort of
way on a tough day like that, where I did

(01:33:15):
think the Ravens did some good things kind of moving
guys around, kind of having guys going across the field,
it's just it's tough.

Speaker 10 (01:33:22):
But again, you know, I think tried his best.

Speaker 11 (01:33:24):
You send a bunch of pressure, you give him a
bunch of different looks. At least you're doing something on
that end.

Speaker 3 (01:33:32):
How much should we chalk up where they are statistically
on defense to the fact that their two worst games
have come against two of the most efficient offenses in
the league in Baltimore and Washington.

Speaker 11 (01:33:45):
You know, I think that's a good question. But you
obviously don't get to choose your schedule. You know you're
gonna gonna play who is there. But when you look
at the fundamentals of the defense, it is.

Speaker 10 (01:33:55):
Not a good unit. Like even you know, you think that.

Speaker 11 (01:33:57):
They had a little bit of success against Kansas City.

Speaker 10 (01:34:01):
Well, obviously it wasn't enough.

Speaker 11 (01:34:03):
You're not gonna play Carol or Baltimore again until a little.

Speaker 10 (01:34:07):
Bit later in the season. You got the Giants come
that next, you got the Browns come up.

Speaker 11 (01:34:10):
You have the Eagles to struggle off, and the Raiders,
who you know whatever they are on offense. So you
hope that you just need to.

Speaker 10 (01:34:17):
Be around defense number twenty. You just can't be defense
number thirty two to be able to kind of sustain
a little bit more success.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
Yeah, no, that's well said. Sean Sayan is with US
Science teams on X We have spent a lot of
time over the last forty eight hours reliving, relitigating, and
second guessing the play calling in overtime. When the Bengals
were given a gift off the Baltimore fumble, they're in

(01:34:45):
field goal range, they go very conservative, they miss the
kick and look if they get the right hold by
Ryan Rico and Evan McPherson makes that kick. We're not
spending nearly as much time on how the Bengals chose
to play it offensively, but how they played it offensively.
For a lot of us seem to kind of fly
in the face of how good Joe Burrow had been

(01:35:06):
that day, how great Jamar Chase had been on Sunday,
and what the overall strength of the team is. You
look at this from an analytical standpoint. We look at
it sometimes from a more emotional standpoint. What do you
make of how the Bengals chose tactically to handle things
when they got the football in overtime?

Speaker 11 (01:35:27):
You know, I think whatever way you look at it,
obviously it's a results driven league, but I don't like
the process there because it wasn't like they were on
the Ravens twenty yard line. If they were on the
Ravens like twenty twenty five, I could be like, you
know what, That's not how I would approach it.

Speaker 10 (01:35:42):
But I get it, Like I understand you have a really,
really good.

Speaker 11 (01:35:44):
Kicker that you're confident in at home, but in the
day where Joe Burrow was.

Speaker 10 (01:35:49):
Just like off the charts.

Speaker 11 (01:35:51):
You talk about looking at it analytically, like you do
not see games that are able to produce in that
specific way where you're pressing your matchups all day long
between Jamar Chase and t Higgins were it doesn't matter
if Baltimore rolled out the best quarterbacks of all time,
it felt like the ball was gonna end up in
a Bengals uniform.

Speaker 10 (01:36:08):
So I was pretty frustrated with that live.

Speaker 11 (01:36:10):
I think, looking back on it and giving it as
much benefit of the doubt, I still thought it was
a bad decision to go three runs in a row
because not even one and again the thirty eight yard line.
It's not like you're on the twenty, and I think
across the league, pickers are just making a lot of
these deep picks kind of over and over. So maybe that,
you know, lulled you into a little bit of a

(01:36:31):
false sense of security. And Threwston is very very good,
so I would have liked to see, I mean, Cande,
I would have like to see three passes because I
didn't think that the Ravens were really gonna stop it,
even though you know, the Ravens did have kind of
a nice interception there where our cornerback is cutting off
base on that inbreaker. But I have a hard time
looking back at that decision and feeling positive about it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:52):
So, you know, offensively, they were awesome. They scored thirty
eight points. Burrow played like an MVP caliber quarterback. Unfortunately,
he and they weren't perfect. They were damn near perfect,
which is what Joe said they had to be last
week when you watched them offensively a little bit more critically,
give me one or two things that stood out.

Speaker 11 (01:37:13):
I thought there was there was maybe one or two
times where Burrow was like he turned down kind of
an open receiver.

Speaker 10 (01:37:20):
I think that is something that he's got. He's been
more comfortable every week.

Speaker 11 (01:37:24):
There's a there's another throw early in the game that
it kind of looked a little bit like that end
up interception through where a defensive back is kind of
cutting it off. I certainly think, you know, you can
get things going a little bit more in the run.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
Game, you know.

Speaker 11 (01:37:37):
I just like, I really like watching Chase Brown as
a runner of the ball, So I definitely think there
are things there where.

Speaker 10 (01:37:44):
You can kind of you can nitpick it. I mean,
at the same.

Speaker 11 (01:37:46):
Time, it's it is really really hard because you're leading
by multiple points in this game with just a really
really good opportunity. Even some of the throws, like you
have a really nice little tagan that Higgins isn't able
to come down with, excite decent play by the defender.

Speaker 10 (01:38:01):
So it's it's hard to walk.

Speaker 11 (01:38:02):
Away and be like, oh, you know, there's this there's
a ton of meat on the bone, and they're like,
this is a high, high end outcome for a game
he needed to win.

Speaker 1 (01:38:11):
Can they still make the playoffs? Okay?

Speaker 10 (01:38:15):
I've spent a lot of time to thinking about this,
and I really think it.

Speaker 11 (01:38:19):
You look at the rest of this because is this
going to be a team that wins the division? I
think probably not. The Ravens are three and two right now.
Off the Bengals are at one and four. You got
a lot of ground to cover there. If you look
at the other wild card teams, you have the Pittsburgh
Steelers at three and two. Yeah, the Denver Broncos at
three and two, and a bunch teams at two and three,
including the Jets. The Steelers. I'm just not afraid of
the Steelers. We saw them on Sunday night struggle against

(01:38:40):
the Cowboys. I think their defense isn't as good as
as it's been through the start of the year. I
don't think that Justin Fields is gonna be able to
like sustain division winning play. The Denver Broncos have an
awesome defense. They have a rookie quarterback. I think the Bengals,
they Bengals do play them later in this season and
will hopefully be competitive and hopefully can win that game.

Speaker 10 (01:38:57):
And then the Jets just fired their head coats.

Speaker 11 (01:38:59):
So for it team, if I just pick it in
installation and looked at, hey, you're one in four, they're
probably not going to make the playoffs. But considering this
and considering they are a top five offense, it's just
so so rare for a top five offense that it's
the playoffs, just because offense is going to be more
predictive of wins in this league.

Speaker 10 (01:39:16):
And again, the.

Speaker 11 (01:39:17):
Defense does not have to be a top ten unit.
It doesn't have to be a top fifteen unit. It
just has to be a top twenty unit. It's just
kind of improve a little bit. And I think when
you look at some of the games that the Bengaled
have coming up, like they're absolutely gonna have a chance.
Like I said, you got the Giants, you get the Browns,
you get the Eagles who are struggling, and you've got
the Raiders. You got a chance to beat the Steelers twice.

(01:39:37):
You get a chance to beat the Broncos when it matters.
So I think that they're a team that, like I,
it's not even that I don't want to give up
on them, Like I think that they are going to
make the playoffs because that offense is still good. Because
of what is happening in the rest of the conference.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
Wow, all right, I can't find anybody who's that optimistic.
Like my base sort of take is the offense is
too good to give up on this season. The defense
is so bad that I can't take any opponent for granted,
which you know, I recognize who they play. They're gonna
be favored. I think in each of the next four games.

(01:40:16):
These offenses do not scare you. But boy, I guess defensively,
there's just nothing to hang your hat on.

Speaker 1 (01:40:21):
On the flip side, they're healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
On offense, there's multiplicity, Joe is playing like an MVP,
and so I think it's irresponsible to bury them at
one and four.

Speaker 11 (01:40:33):
Yeah, and again, I keep looking at the rest of
the conference. If it was a year where they were
just like, for example, the NFC has fourteenth Dynasty North
that I think can make the playoffs. I think that
the AFC, as of just a whole entire conference overall,
has had some struggles where coming into the year, we
thought the Bills, the Jets, and the Dolphins.

Speaker 10 (01:40:52):
Would all be legitimate playoff contenders.

Speaker 11 (01:40:54):
Two is out, the Jets are being the Jets, and
then things even in the AFC.

Speaker 10 (01:40:59):
South with the Jaguars at one in four. I think
maybe that was a team that people thought could have
been a lot.

Speaker 11 (01:41:04):
A little bit better than they are right now. So
you know, whatever the Bengals record is, they just have
to be the seventh team overall, Like that's all they
have to get you the only one game off of
that pace right now.

Speaker 10 (01:41:14):
And I just I just can't bet against the offense.

Speaker 11 (01:41:17):
I can't, And that's what's always gonna be more predictive
of wins.

Speaker 10 (01:41:21):
At the same time, the.

Speaker 11 (01:41:22):
Defense is bad, like capital will be bad right now,
and that is certainly gonna be other thing that is
that's gonna be the limited here.

Speaker 10 (01:41:30):
But I just keep thinking, Hey, it doesn't have to
be the best. The best thinks just gotta.

Speaker 11 (01:41:35):
Be okay, it just has to be fine to give
your offense enough opportunities to win.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
I've put the magic number at four.

Speaker 3 (01:41:43):
If they could, if they can force four punts a game,
that's one a quarter, they're gonna win. They've forced seven
over the last four games, so I've made the magic
number four.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:41:53):
Most teams gon eleven drives per game. If they can
force four punch on, this team's gonna be okay.

Speaker 1 (01:41:59):
I'm just not sure they can.

Speaker 10 (01:42:02):
Yeah, Hey, it's gonna be a good test.

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
And I do like that.

Speaker 11 (01:42:05):
You mentioned you played two really really good offenses in
the last week and you're just you're not playing those
offenses for the next few weeks. Like it is going
to look different here and now looks if they drop
to one in five, then if it does the option that.

Speaker 10 (01:42:18):
The meter absolutely turn to as low as possible, do
we start talking about? Hey, mom, maybe we can talk
about something else.

Speaker 11 (01:42:23):
I do know, are there, Well the sports are going
on UH in Ohio, But I still think like there's
just there's just not a reason to give up your
beast on what else is going on in the AFC.

Speaker 3 (01:42:37):
Well, the Reds disc just hired Terry Francona, so I'll
make you bone up on him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
But hopefully that's not the case.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
And we could talk about a win in New Jersey
on UH on Sunday night.

Speaker 1 (01:42:48):
Always awesome to have you man, Thank you so much,
appreciate it.

Speaker 10 (01:42:51):
I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (01:42:53):
Read Shawn's Peace Monday Morning mashup for Summer Sports dot
Com and catch the Stats and Scheme podcast as well.
It is twenty four. We are way late, twenty four
away from six o'clock. We're here at Buffalo Wild Wings
and Milford on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sportstation.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
You've been listening to football in Thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
Hio.

Speaker 3 (01:43:21):
We got sports headlines that are the service of Kelsey Chevrolet,
home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed a credit approval,
so their family, from their family to yours for life
kelseyshev dot com. Bengals made it official. Da Hill, Jackson,
Kirkland go on IR both with injuries that they suffered

(01:43:41):
on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
Kirkland his BICT.

Speaker 3 (01:43:45):
You feel for him, You really feel for Dax Hill
and I brought this up with Paul Dayner Junior. Before
after the third year is when teams have to make
decisions on the fifth year or can make decisions on
the fifth year option for.

Speaker 1 (01:44:00):
Round draft choices.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
Dax Hill's first season aw wash and by design, sit
and learn from Jesse Bates and Von Bell. His second
season was not.

Speaker 1 (01:44:10):
Good and.

Speaker 3 (01:44:15):
Even a lot of the talk early in the off
season was about, you know, can he really make the
switch to corner? Is he ultimately going to be better
suited in the slot? How far behind some of the
natural corners is he going to be? And it feels
like everything you would want him to do from kind
of the middle of the off season clear through training

(01:44:36):
camp in the beginning of the season, he's done. And
now for him to suffer an injury. It's bad for
the team because it's already bad defense and how many
guys can.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
You really afford to lose?

Speaker 3 (01:44:47):
But you feel for Dax because, especially without Mike Hilton
on Sunday, it kind of felt like Dax found his role,
had done all the right things, and.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
Now done for the season with a knee injury.

Speaker 3 (01:44:58):
And my guess is they still pick up the fifth
year option, but it perhaps complicates that decision just a
little bit. Bengals did sign a couple of players. One
of them is Andrew Stuber, who's a tackle. They signed
him to the active roster off Atlanta's practice squad. A
player who played his college ball in Michigan's seventh round

(01:45:19):
pick at the Patriots two years ago. Spent most of
last year or his rookie season on the non football
injury list with the Patriots, was on their practice squad
all of last year, and spent the first five games
of this season on Atlanta's practice squad. Cincinnati also signing
cornerback Mike Abram to the practice squad. He is a

(01:45:39):
rookie from Marshall who was taken by the Colts in
the sixth round of this year's draft. Was waived by
Indeed during final cuts and was not with an NFL
team during the first five weeks of the regular season.
The Jets have made Robert Sala the first head coach
to lose his job this season.

Speaker 1 (01:45:56):
The Reds have.

Speaker 3 (01:45:57):
Told three hitting coaches, you are losing your and he
might be surprised to find out the Reds have three
hitting coaches. I'm legitimately, I'm not surprised. Coaching staffs and
baseball are bigger than they ever had that. I just
follow this team religiously and frankly had no idea they
hired a hitting coach. I'm really or that they had
three hinting coaches. I'm really kind of curious as to

(01:46:19):
what the approach there is going to be the Reds.
The Red's main hitting coach last year, Joel McKeithen, did
not have experience.

Speaker 1 (01:46:33):
As a big league player. I don't know that that
should matter.

Speaker 3 (01:46:37):
I don't know that that did matter, but I wonder
if that is something they're going to be prioritizing when
they find his replacement. Derek Johnson is back for twenty
twenty five. Freddie Benavid is still in the running to
be on Terry Francona's coaching staff.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Baseball Playoffs National League Division Series in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:46:56):
The Mets have a one nothing lead over the Phillies
as Philly betts in the top third inning. Dodgers and
Padres played Game three of what has become a very
contentious series.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
In San Diego tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:47:07):
That series is tied at a game apiece and Wes
Miller talked today, the head coach of the Bearcats, and
he confirmed that Tyler McKinley from Winton Woods is not
going to play this year due to a knee injury.
Unfortunate news for him, unfortunate news for a program that
Tyler McKinley was as good as we think this team

(01:47:28):
might be this year, as deep.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
As they might be.

Speaker 3 (01:47:31):
I think a lot of us thought that at six
' nine he was going to get some playing time
this year, and by all accounts, what he had done
in the offseason had further solidified the belief that he
was going to be able to help the team in
his freshman season. So bad news for him, bad news
for the Bearcats, who play that charity exhibition game a

(01:47:51):
week from Friday against Ohio State, twelve minutes away from
six o'clock. This is es in fifteen thirty. You know
that the Terry Francona thing. It's been. It's been fun
to watch. Time will tell if this is the right
move or not. Like I have a hard time believing

(01:48:12):
that we're ever gonna say it was the wrong move.
It may not work, Terry Francona may not even take
the Reds to the postseason. Maybe the players just simply
aren't good enough. Whatever it is, I don't know that
where there's any set of circumstances that's going to compel
us to say that it wasn't the right hire a
manager of his renown, a manager that has accomplished what

(01:48:33):
he has with his track record, as well liked in
the game as he is, as I think, as adaptable
as he appears to be. I don't think anybody's ever
gonna say it was the wrong move. But even if
it doesn't pan out the way we would like, which
is the Reds winning with this manager and their young
core and some players from the outside winning the World Series,

(01:48:57):
I think what has been fun in a very short
amount of time emotionally, and this is not why you
hire a manager, but emotionally to just see people get
excited about the Reds again, because in the second half
of the season it felt like all the air came
out of the balloon. Now, that's not why you hire

(01:49:18):
a manager, and I don't, for the life of me,
believe that that's why they hired Terry Francona. The reason
they hired Terry Francona is it's been a great manager
for a very long time and he was willing to
do it. And there seems to be at least some
alignment in terms of what the team wants to do
and what Terry Francona's philosophies are. But as a side benefit,

(01:49:39):
you get the infusion of excitement and energy and optimism
that has come with it. I think there's no downside
to that. I also feel like, you know, the Reds
at the end of the year, when they when David
Bell got let go, they did exactly play great.

Speaker 1 (01:50:01):
Now it was just five games.

Speaker 3 (01:50:03):
They won the last game of the season, but if
you remember, they lost those two games in Cleveland, got
shut out those first two games in Chicago before winning
game number one sixty two. From everything that I have heard,
letting David Bell go was not something that went over
all that well among the players. Now anecdotally, were there

(01:50:24):
some guys that maybe didn't like David Bell, I'm sure,
but I think as a general rule, this was a
manager who was really well liked by most of the
players on the team. I would imagine that finding out
that Terry Francona is going to be your manager if

(01:50:44):
it excites us. I would imagine that for a team
that toward the end of the season didn't exactly ooze great.

Speaker 1 (01:50:53):
Vibes, that.

Speaker 3 (01:50:56):
The news from late last week was very well received
among the players, and maybe I don't want to say,
erased whatever lousy feelings there were in the aftermath of
David Bell being let go, but allowed everybody to move
on and focus on what's next. And what's next is
a very very big year for this franchise. I mean,

(01:51:19):
let call it what it is. I said this at
the deadline this past August. If we're doing it again
where we're talking about them, are they buyers or sellers
or they're not really sure or let's start talking about
next year while the season is still got two months
left in it, that's an abject failure. This is a
huge year for this franchise, and so anything that gets

(01:51:40):
people talking about what's next and makes people feel a
little bit better if that's If that comes on top
of just hiring somebody who is among the best of
what they've done, that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
If that makes sense. We are done.

Speaker 3 (01:51:56):
I want to thank the staff here at Buffalo Wild
Wings for takeing such immense great care of us. Next
week we are going to be broadcasting from the Buffalo
Wild Wings in Montgomery Harper Station, not too far from
the radio station. That'll be next Tuesday, the fifteenth. We
look forward to that Milford. That was awesome thanks to

(01:52:16):
our two Bengal cheerleaders who came out Thanks to Dave
Abbott for producing on site, Tarren Bland for producing back
in Kenwood. We're back in studio tomorrow at three five.
Have an awesome night, and we'll talk to you then.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station