10/15/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the Battle of Ohio. Fresh off their prime time
victory over the Giants, shot for the pop touchdown, Joe
Burrow and his Bengals roaring to Cleveland to take down
the bront S Sachs. It's an AFC North Showdown, Touchdown.

(00:20):
The Orange and Black are ready to attend.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Damn Hobbard tackle the King.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Then Dan Hood and Dave Levin bring you the call.
Coverage starts Sunday morning at nine on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
All right, that's us, Good afternoon, I'm a Legard. This
is ESPN fifeteen thirty. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
We are as we are every.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Tuesday, broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wings.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
This is the beat dogs of my lates.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
One, early thirties, Harper's Point, Harper Stations.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
This is the one that I watched countless.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Bengals road games at a lot of U see basketball
games at this is This is like, for a while
was my home away from home. So it's awesome to
be here. Our friends at bud Light have bud Light specials.
We've got the bud Light Bengals hoodies, of which I'm
wearing one. We're given those away. We've got the greatest
cooler in the world that we're giving away. We've got

(01:15):
buy one, get one half of Traditional Wings. The terrific
staff at Buffalo Wild Wings will take care of you,
and we have a lot to talk about. Sean Miller's
going to join our show a little bit later on
at for twenty. Full show previews available on x thanks
to Emory Federal Credit Union and Paul Danner. Juniors here
from The Athletic and The Growler podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
You know what I enjoy, yeah, is that every time
we sit down at the different B dubs that we're at,
I get to hear some story about your drinking history,
yes you know, and find out about what what portion
of your life you have connected and what errors, maybe
a judgment you've made, losses you've taken at different places.

(01:57):
You could really write a book on just my life
in B dub's, So you know.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
It's it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
So the folks at Buffalo Wild Wings agreed to let
us do our show at different locations during the football season.
So it's it's eighteen weeks. It's not that there's some
that were doubling up. But before the season started, I
jumped on a zoom call, well like the general manager
of all these different Buffalo Wild Wings.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Then I literally went around the zoom and I'm like, oh.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, Newport boy, That's that's where I went, and
like just with each one of them, except for the
poor guy in Middletown.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
I haven't been to the one in Middletown. Yeah, but
I'll go there next week.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
You go there next weekend. It's makes some new memories,
make some new memories. I have a lot of memories
at this one. I have a lot of memories here
at this is. This is where I watched Remember the
the Bengals Steelers game where like Troy Polamalo dominated Carson Palmer.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
Yeah, that happened at this game at this Buffalo Wild Wings.

Speaker 6 (02:47):
What a magical day.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, it was the first time I was over at
this one.

Speaker 7 (02:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:51):
Was that was that when he like didn't need that
when he jumped over jumped over the center or is
that the one where he had the d the pick
and then like rand dode over on the way.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
To that one?

Speaker 6 (03:00):
Yeah that one? Yeah, Yeah, that not a great one there.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, So that was the first I had better memories,
better sports memories than that.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
But I've watched a lot of games.

Speaker 6 (03:08):
At this buffalo. Well it's a it's a good one
to be at.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
It's a good one to be at, very easy to
get to close to I two seventy five, and so
come on out when you get off work, hang out
with us here at beat ups.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
We have a lot to discuss. We always do, we do.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know the thing about these twos, we have more
pleasant things to discussed this week.

Speaker 5 (03:27):
There are a few more positive developments. A Giants player
didn't pick up an easy recoverable fumbable and so so
everybody's feeling a lot better today than they would have
been if if it would have gone the other way.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Do you know what's interesting about that fumble? So I
was watching that game and Chase Brown fumbles and I
was with a coworker of mine who you know, And
as he lets go with the ball and it looks
like the Giants player is going to recover it, I
start jumping up and down in front, and they go

(04:01):
to commercial break, and I thought it was Giant's ball.
So I said out loud, they're going to lose. And
my buddy's like a bunch of other rules, like what
are you talking with balling out of bounce the ball
had had that fumble been lost, I have no doubt
in my mind the Bengals would have lost that football game.

Speaker 6 (04:18):
It sure felt that.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
I hate to say that, but I have no doubt
in my mind they would have lost that foot on.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
The momentum that would have come from it, and just
everything about it.

Speaker 6 (04:28):
Boy, that's I let you look back.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
At these first five weeks and we sort of almost
joked about how ridiculous the fact that they were one
and four was when you consider how well they played
on offense and all the other things, and some of
the crazy the losing plays at winning time we'd been
talking about that had been dogging them, and just the

(04:51):
bounces didn't go their way.

Speaker 6 (04:54):
The bounce went their.

Speaker 5 (04:54):
Way, but they still put the opportunity out there for
the other team, and that credit. That's still a losing
play at winning time, boy, And it's it's hard not
to get past that sometimes because just because the ball
didn't get bounced here did bounce your way this time,
doesn't mean that the mistake still isn't very real.

Speaker 6 (05:14):
I mean, two fumbles from their running backs.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
That change that both one did change the direction of
the game, and the other one almost had a fatal direction.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Of that well, and I don't recall who asked it,
but Zach yesterday was asked about the fumbles and.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
It's it was that you it is kind of it's
becoming a thing.

Speaker 6 (05:34):
It's becoming a thing.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
I mean that last year was was freaky stuff. They'd
only only lost two fumbles in the next and the next.

Speaker 6 (05:41):
Lowest was five.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
Uh, and so they were gonna regress to the mean
a little bit just by the nature of fumble luck.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
And can't count that one.

Speaker 5 (05:49):
But that said, I mean they have been high leverage
fumbles this year, right, I mean when you're driving to
basically put the game away. Was Zach Moss, what could
have happened the Tanner Hudson with the early celebration your
favorite play.

Speaker 6 (06:03):
Of the year.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
I mean, there's been so many of those where it's
just you just you just can't have it. You should
have seen Jamar Chase's reaction when I asked him what
was going I said, I just said, you know, did
you did you have a good view when you were
out there of the funnel?

Speaker 6 (06:21):
Did you see it?

Speaker 5 (06:21):
And he's kind of explains where he was, Oh, it
was kind of over on the other sides, but yeah,
I saw it.

Speaker 6 (06:26):
I was like, what went through your mind? And he
gave this look like like I am.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Holding in what I really want to say and I'm
gonna think about what I'm supposed to say.

Speaker 6 (06:38):
And then he you know, he's like, uh, get the
hell out of bounds.

Speaker 5 (06:43):
It's just like that was that was the that was
the like most PG thing he could come up with
from everything else that was in his head. But I'm
sure everybody's thinking like that because there's it's hard not
to have the scar tissue of dread from the first
five games. Yes, Like it's just hard not to right now.
And that's such a different feel that they have to change.
And I think maybe this game against the Giants, and

(07:05):
maybe it takes the other team blowing an opportunity to
pick up a fumble to get them to start playing
confidently and feeling like they're gonna make the play and.

Speaker 6 (07:16):
Certainly not dreading that the thing is gonna happen.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Yeah, that's that's the mark of good teams and who
they've been in the past, except this year it has
felt the opposite. So that's something they need to gather.
System and maybe that comes from what happened.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Against we did Baalds don't lie this morning.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
I don't know if it's it is out yourself, Jay Morrison,
and you had me on there and you asked basically,
what was Did I.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
Walk away from the game encouraged or discouraged?

Speaker 3 (07:43):
And I think I'm maybe the most encouraged Bengals fan
there is because one of my energy and the immediate
aftermath of the game was the defense has to get better,
and if it is, it has to start somewhere. There's
the beginning. Now ask me in five weeks if they
ult upon it. Maybe the answer is no. But it

(08:03):
was gonna have to start somewhere. A better health. They're healthy.
I still wish they had that still we all do,
but relatively speaking, especially upfront, a lot of guys available, healthier,
and then just improvement of performance. Say what you want
about the New York Giants, we could dwell on who
they didn't have. It was gonna have to start somewhere.
So I viewed Sunday as the starting point. Who knows

(08:26):
where it ends, but I viewed that as a starting point,
and I gotta win with it too.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
Yeah, you know, last week I told you was that.

Speaker 6 (08:34):
I don't know if I'm the only.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
Optimistic person coming off off that Ravens game, but I
felt like the defense had to get better because they
weren't gonna play the Ravens and they weren't going to
play the Commanders. And I mean they are playing the
Ravens can actually, but they weren't gonna play. But there
are very few games against some right side the teams.

Speaker 6 (08:54):
They need to make teams like the Giants look like that.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Mm hmm, like that.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
And if they do that, their defense will be fine
to get to the levels that it needs to be
for the offense and still carry it. Now they didn't
as much on Sunday night, I'm not as concerned about
that because that's what the Giants have done to everybody.
The Giants have not let up more than twenty one
offensive points to a single opponent all year.

Speaker 6 (09:18):
So that's and that includes the command Well, I was.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Gonna say that the toast of the league still right now,
even after losing on Sundays, the Washington Commanders go, look
at what that Giants team did to that offense.

Speaker 6 (09:29):
Yeah, they kept shutting them down in the red zone.
And because it's just it's just.

Speaker 5 (09:35):
The difference that a real defensive line at elite levels makes,
like the rest of it can be whatever. I mean,
Dexter Lawrence and Bryan purns Man are just a handful,
and the other guys are no slouches. Obviously that was shown.
I mean, Azizo Juli, I mean had a great game.
You saw that, and so I just you know, they

(09:57):
they are where it's at on.

Speaker 6 (09:59):
The defense and some line.

Speaker 5 (10:00):
And the interesting thing about you know, because Bengals offense
had come in and the line was was, you know,
leading the league in the lowest pressure percentage, and ever
after every game Zach Taylor and Dan Pitcher were praising
the play of the line. They built these pass protectors
and they got beat up.

Speaker 6 (10:18):
But in the.

Speaker 5 (10:19):
Rewatch and Zach Taylor sort of confirmed when I asked
about him yesterday, it looked more like weird clunky stuff
like communication and procedural stuff and like rules not getting.

Speaker 6 (10:36):
Whipped one on one. They lost some which you would
expect you against those.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
Guys, but it didn't They didn't look physically overwhelmed at all.
And I thought, well, that felt more encouraging on the
rewatch than it did live where it felt chaotic and
like they were just getting beat. They still obviously are
things to fix, but I'd rather have, you know, procedural
communication type stuff to clean up and get fixed rather

(11:05):
than having to worry about Oh look, Dexter Lawrence tossed
Ted Carrison too, Joe Burrow, which we've seen that for
not necessarily with Ted, but we've seen that with Bengals
offensive line. So I thought they handled it okay, and
we know what they are. I think we know what
they're gonna be. So I thought the offense was was okay.
They could have obviously been much better, and it was

(11:26):
and it wasn't great, but I certainly wouldn't come away
discouraged by it.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
I want to talk about the start of the game
when we come back, and I want to test your
your knowledge of Bengals trade history.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
I got a pretty good knowledge Bengals trade history, I know,
which is why we're gonna test, all right, all right,
well to that when we come back.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
He's Paul Danner Jr.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
The Athletic dot Com The Growler Podcast, latest episode out today,
Balds Don't Lie. The walkout immediately after every Bengals game
is a must watch or listen depending on your preference,
and follow Paul on x at Paul Danner Junior. It's
sixteen minutes after three o'clock. We're a Buffalo Wild Wings
in Montgomery on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati's

(12:11):
ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the UC Health Traffic what
real sportsman's listened to?

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Can just get this out of the way?

Speaker 6 (12:19):
Can we ripped the band? Aid off?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Tony Pike and Austin Elmore wy?

Speaker 6 (12:23):
Don't you go ahead?

Speaker 5 (12:23):
Cincy three sixty tomorrow which twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Twenty three minutes after three o'clock ESPN fifteen thirty, We're
at Buffalo Wild Wins. By the way, they've got one
of the best deals of all time Pick six for
nineteen ninety nine. That means two entres, two sides, and
two fountain drinks. In this day and age, where are
you going to beat that? Two entres, two sides, two

(12:51):
fountain drinks done? Pick six for nineteen ninety nine. They've
also got their happy hour from three to six, which
means the three dollars to six dollars menu.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Take advantage of it. Hey, it's it's while we're here
from three to six.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
By the way, good at any participating the Buffalo wild Wings.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
We are at the one we were talking about this
off air.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
I always always struggle with where we are when I
come to this part of town. It's Montgomery is Harper's Point.
It was Sycamore Township.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Yeah, but where are we Harper's pat Okay to me,
somebody who say that there are people know what that is.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah. I used to go to that dairy queen right
over there all the time.

Speaker 6 (13:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:31):
But if I said, you whatever, whatever actual technical township
or part of town is, people necessarily wouldn't know.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
You say, Harper's Point. Yeah, a good deal. That's where
we are. Buffalo wild Wings.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Start of the game, and there were a few, but
the start of the game on Sunday night was bj Hill.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, the revenge game.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Four years later, he goes back and plays great against
his former team. This has been a great trade for
a while. It was after one year almost immediately.

Speaker 6 (13:54):
Yeah, even even like in the what they got something?

Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Lance mcay alistair on his website kind of revisited that trade,
which has it has worked so well?

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Bengals trade history.

Speaker 6 (14:08):
Yeah, where do you put.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
It, bj Hill has not been a star.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's not like he's played in a bunch of Pro Bowls,
but been here for quite a while, made a huge
play in arguably the biggest victory in the history of
the franchise against the Chiefs in the AFC Championship Game.
Has been a steadying presence as they've made a transition
to some other guys on the defensive line, and Billy
Price was never going to play here, so they got

(14:31):
this player who has done so much in exchange for
somebody that wasn't going to make the team. In twenty
twenty one, there have been higher profile trades. There probably
have been better trades, not many.

Speaker 6 (14:43):
Not many.

Speaker 5 (14:45):
They once got an actual pick for bene ben Wickery, Okay,
which that.

Speaker 6 (14:50):
One blew my mind more than anything.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
A guy who was based on barely anybody and showed
up and had a.

Speaker 6 (14:56):
Terrible camp, and then they they were gonna lee six
round pick. I don't even remember.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
Maybe Chris Evans, I don't even know, I think, but
there's always times where it's like that one bloom, that
one blew my mind?

Speaker 6 (15:08):
How did they actually get something?

Speaker 3 (15:10):
I above to believe the best trade ever is Carson
Palmer for two picks that turned into good players.

Speaker 6 (15:14):
Good players.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
That that is up there. Reggie Nelson for David Jones, Yes,
is pretty clterrific as far as modern like modern history,
you know that type of stuff.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Does.

Speaker 6 (15:28):
I mean that's and by the way, we.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Could have had this conversation before Sunday, Yes, but Sunday
sort of triggers the conversation.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
And it adds another chapter in plus what he's done.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
Here and plus so much of Bjay's impact was in
that first year. And I mean people don't talk enough
about how much the depth of that defensive.

Speaker 6 (15:52):
Line was a driver for that Super Bowl run.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
And the fact they were able to pair Larry Yoga
Jobi with BJ Hill was such a big part of
which takes you to the current conversation. And what was
the topic and I know from the players that I
talked to after the game specifically, was how much that
deep rotation helped them play better. Sam Hubbard now has

(16:18):
his story has been much discussed.

Speaker 6 (16:21):
Yeah, this year, he has.

Speaker 5 (16:23):
This even specifically out loud yesterday, this grade three hamstring
that happened in camp.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
Worked his way through it.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
He didn't want to talk about it because he want
to complain about it because so many of the defensive
linemen were down.

Speaker 6 (16:34):
He knew they needed him. He played through it. He
played poorly. He knew he played poorly.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
Okay, all that's fine, But he admitted to me after
the game, like when we were out there, when we
were down people, it felt like every play was just
survival mode, like they just were they had nothing to give.
They were just trying to hold on and you're not
thinking about making plays, You're just thinking about trying.

Speaker 6 (17:00):
To get through it. And they looked like that.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
They looked like a team that was just trying to
get them play. They looked like a team playing with
a purpose against the Giants. Now, is that because of
the Giants? Maybe some You're Thomas a good player, you know,
and Trey Hendrickson was still doing they were still able
to get in there. That My point is though, that
that really eight guys is at.

Speaker 6 (17:21):
Least twenty one snaps.

Speaker 5 (17:22):
Yeah, And you could see the feeling of those waves
changing the dynamic of the game, giving them juice late
in the game, keep staying in Daniel Jones grill and
making a difference, making that extra effort. I mean, McKinley
Jackson was running all over the field and for a
big guy, you don't expect to see a ton of that,
and he's obviously not alone, but that, Yeah, remember their

(17:47):
identity on defense that they openly declared they want themselves
to be for a long time, including this year, is
like is relentlessness and just constantly being the team of
high mode and just constantly going after a chasing side it.

Speaker 6 (18:03):
And you didn't see all the time of that.

Speaker 5 (18:05):
They were bemoaning not having enough hats to the ball
the previous week because it mistackles because they're just kind
of not really getting under the ground and not have
enough people around the ball.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
They're supposed to be built on the exact opposite.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
They have scouted and drafted profiles of people that are
supposed to be the exact opposite. Well, part of that
is gonna be because you gotta have guys that feel
like they're out there getting after it. They looked more
like that against the Giants, and I think the health
of that group and the fact they were willing to go,
you know, credit Luis Rumo and I guess Marion hobby
with rotations of being like it's valuable for us to

(18:40):
make sure all of these guys are playing not a little,
you know, all of them having more major roles to
keep everybody fresh. That you really saw that with Hubbard,
you saw that with Hill, you're just getting We've said
that about BJ for a while, like you need to
be getting more with less out of him. That's when
he's at his best. Don't ask any of these guys
really to be out there playing. They have been two

(19:01):
nation in recent years, so I just felt like that
made a huge difference. And you got a lot of
that BJ Hill play too that you expect, and they
just you know, they look like a different team with
more guys like that.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
That's the main takeaway of the game for me, that
that healthy defensive line can work. That that healthy defensive
line with the bodies that I saw, and the upside
of a player like McKinley Jackson and the upside of
a player like Chris Jenkins, where you've you've got some
dudes who have been there before, but you also have
some guys that they draft early, drafted early for a reason.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
And as the season goes on, you expect to see
more and more of that, and in a role like
in a role.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
That's not featured right, And that was the whole point,
is like, still have your veterans be your frontline guys
and let those other guys have their opportunities, but real opportunities,
not you know, throwing a bone for two snaps here
and there, but real, real roles in the game plan
and being out there in big moments.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
And uh, and I thought it showed.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
It's a three thirty On ESPN fifteen thirty, Paul dander
Junior here for another thirty minutes. We're at Buffalo Wild
Wings Harper's point. I'm here till six o'clock. Come on
out and have a nice cold bud Light winer prize,
win a cooler, get some wings, buy one, get one
half off traditional Wings and the.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Pick six for nineteen ninety nine deal. You cannot beat that.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Sports headlines and more next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Cincinnati's ESPN Battle of the Brown coverage starts Sunday morning
at nine on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Sports headlines are a service at Kelson Va Light, home
of lifetime power drains protection and here's incredit approval from
their family of yours for wyat kelsonchev dot com. Speaking
of the Browns, they have a traded Amari Cooper to
the Buffalo Bills. I can't wait for this game on
Sunday for a thousand different reasons. We'll talk about him
here in just a second. The Bengals next home game

(20:54):
against the Eagles a week from Sunday has been flexed
to a one o'clock kickoff.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
That is the White Bengal game, so keep that in mind.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Was originally scheduled for four to twenty one o'clock a
week from Sunday at the venue originally known as Paul
Brown Stadium. Mike, that's important news you need to know.
We'll be broadcasting at nine am.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Instead of noon.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Antoine Peak Junior named to the Pro Football Focused National Team.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Of the Week, the Bearcat Safety.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
The Bearcat's Star plays the star position, technically ranked as
a PFF's highest graded second highest graded safety in the
nation this past weekend. Scott Sadafield's radio show is tonight
at eight o'clock. That is on seven hundred WLW. America
League Championship Series continues tonight Game two in New York.
Yankees winning Game one over the Guardians and the Columbus

(21:44):
Blue Jackets play tonight against Florida. That game airs on.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
Fox Sports thirteen sixty. We're at Buffalo wild Wings.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Harper's Point, coming out and spend some time with us
this afternoon. Paul Danner Juniors here for another twenty five minutes.
So this is an ideal set of circumstances if you're
a Bengals fan, this game on Sunday.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
The Browns are bad.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
The relationship between the fan base and the organization and
the quarterback could not be more toxic. They're running out there,
Deshaun Watson. They've just traded one of his targets. This
is a chance to completely extinguish whatever hopes they have
of reviving their season and make an already awful situation worse.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
This is great. I cannot wait for this on Sunday.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
Really, yeah, I thought there might be some dread.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean, look, dreading this.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
This is the This is the chance to test the
theory of well, the Browns just have Joe Burrow's number
in Cleveland, right, yeah, I guess, but this would be
this would be the opportunity to because you can't they
haven't tried it out. A worse team than this one right,
if the entire time, if they're ever going to exercise
any demons in Cleveland, this is the time. I mean
you you can't have a quarterback playing work like you can't, can't.

(23:01):
The numbers suggest there has not been.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
One, I mean, like a quarterback playing We ran through
this on our show yesterday, Tony and I Historically he's
historically bad.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yes, like he's also a terrible quarterback.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
Yeah, well done, well done. Yeah, And it feels you know,
you see these teams just punishing him, and you know,
the defensive lineman they're enjoying themselves.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
Of course, yes, they're enjoying.

Speaker 6 (23:30):
Look, I just didn't.

Speaker 5 (23:32):
It's so it's so crazy to see how they somehow
made their quarterback.

Speaker 6 (23:42):
Situation worse than that jersey that used to hang with
all the names on it. You know, how could it
possibly worse?

Speaker 5 (23:50):
What if we put one name on it and it's Watson,
right like I mean, and then the streak where they
where they just don't convert third downs ever?

Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah, is wild?

Speaker 6 (24:01):
Yeah, just don't could get a third.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Haven't scored more than eighteen points in a game again,
haven't gained more than three hundred yards.

Speaker 6 (24:09):
It's it's it's crazy.

Speaker 5 (24:11):
And so again Bengals defense, chance to build confidence, chance
to get some young guys, uh continuing to make some plays.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
You can't really dial up a much better situation than
this one for for what they need. But you know, uh,
they still you know, they still have to go and
they have to stop Miles Garrett. No, I do all
those things they've struggled with, and is gonna come back
and that's gonna get everybody all excited and maybe they'll
just go out there and you know what they do.

Speaker 6 (24:41):
Yeah, they go out there.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
They go full like Corey Dillon Bengals Broncos, and they
just give it to Nick Chubb like thirty four times
and just not let Watson go the go the the
dick Lebo style, right, you just hand it off over
and over and over again and let Scott you'll complete
two passes.

Speaker 8 (25:01):
And then.

Speaker 6 (25:04):
And try to run it. I mean that might be
their best strategy. Yes, I would.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
I would totally agree, is to.

Speaker 6 (25:09):
Go full running game.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
But yeah, they don't have they don't have much going
on there other than just now.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
And I made it sound like I know they're going
to win the game, and I'm I'm I don't, but
from a fan perspective, there's nothing better than winning that
sort of game. And then you know, sometimes your team
will beat a bad team and then you know the
bad team, well.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
They're gonna make some changes. No, this is great.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
You beat that bad team, you put them at one
and six, and yeah, you're bad and you're stuck with
the main reason why you're bad.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Sea enjoy the Guardians. That's what I want on Sunday.

Speaker 5 (25:44):
Their only way out is actually what they're doing is
the tank. The tank is their only way out, and
I would suggest continuing to play Deshaun Watson is as
tanky as it gets.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
It is tanky. But and you know, look, I get.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
That they're stuck with it. It's the only way to
offset is money.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
No doubt. And they did bail on Amari Cooper.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
But I just like you mentioned Miles Garrett, who is
a terrific player and he's playing through an injury, Like
if you're him.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
How does this make you feel? Right? Right? Like that?

Speaker 3 (26:15):
There are players on that especially on defense, who have value,
who are trying, and yet we're sticking with this quarterback
who clearly isn't working. Jameis Winston might not be an
exponentially better upgrade, but you gotta try and try it
from a competitive standpoint. So I guess I look at
it from the perspective of some of those players or

(26:35):
the coach who it's like, all right, if you're gonna
tank and guarantee me that I have a chance to
see this through, that's one thing. But if I'm now
tethered to Deshaun Watson and you're not gonna hit the
eject button on him and it's gonna cost me my
job with then thanks.

Speaker 6 (26:49):
Yeah. I mean we've seen these types of situations around
here before.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
You know.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
Where it comes down to is are you and are
you really telling me that everything the y're saying As
a coach, I basically shouldn't trust because you say that
if somebody proves that they are better than they can play,
or that somebody is not playing, well, they'll.

Speaker 6 (27:10):
Look for a better answer.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
It's it questions the entire integrity of the coaching staff
and the way that they address players, and that absolutely
just kills your entire organization. So that said, I don't
know enough about what's going on there specifically, but it's
really hard to say that somebody.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
I'm enjoying it. That's great.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
Somebody has is lying because there's no there's no there
is no way I know that.

Speaker 6 (27:41):
But I mean, you know, you know, like there's no
way that Kevin's fancy asked actually feels this way. No way, Kevin.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
I watched his press conference yesterday, I looked like a
hostage video.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, well, like Jimmy like that.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
Well, by the way, not the first hostage video we've
seen from Kevin Sepans.

Speaker 6 (27:55):
He's been forced to be a hostage many.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Times, right, So I I just want to twist then
if I want the Bengals to go there, And I
genuinely don't think there's I don't think the Bengals are
really capable right now playing a game that's easy. Uh,
But I would love for them to just extend the
misery and and then walk away and we could just go, yeah,
good playing. You A will see in December, well Deshaun
Watson still be the quarterback? Because if so, that'll be fun. Yeah,

(28:18):
and just I as a fan would enjoy that.

Speaker 6 (28:20):
Yeah. Well, they'll take anything you need.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Did anything happen offensively? You talked about what the Giants
did from a Bengals perspective. Did anything happen offensively that
should give me pause? Or can I just chalk it
up to allows you Sunday night?

Speaker 6 (28:34):
I don't, you know, I don't think so.

Speaker 5 (28:36):
I think that the only thing that and we talked
about the offensive line a little bit, it was because
the things that gave you pause in that game were
the uncared like Jamar Chase drop, you know, things that
would have extended Drives Burrow with the talking about the
happy feet that he kind of had in the first half.

(28:58):
First time we've talked about that since the open or
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
So the first time that I felt like the pressure
he was under in the first half and he did
address it was more on Joe than what the offense
won it.

Speaker 6 (29:08):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
I mean there were multiple plays where it seemed like
he wasn't doing what he normally does is just make
the quick decision and either get out of there or
get rid of the ball or know exactly what he's doing,
you know, sort of like in his long run where
he knew exactly what he was doing, did it so
quick that it it beat the bad play to the punch.

Speaker 6 (29:28):
Uh So, Yeah, but that's so that stuff has been
so uncharacteristic from what they've been. I don't I don't
take pause inive it.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
I still think that that you can see it, you
still see them as the same kind of machine that
they've been.

Speaker 6 (29:40):
I think t Higgins is playing awesome.

Speaker 5 (29:42):
Yeah, and he's kind of That hamstring injury is so
unfortunate that he had in the first two weeks because
you probably feel like outcomes are different when you look
at the way that they he has really accelerated everything they're.

Speaker 6 (29:55):
Doing and it's the same.

Speaker 5 (29:57):
You know when we talked about that, how he looked
and came like this is what he looked as good
as ever. You know what I keep noticing from him
is this like sneaky yack that he feels like he's
had a little extra juice to himself after the ball
this year, where I need to study it a little
more and go back and watch more of his catches

(30:19):
from previous seasons. I wouldn't call him like Chad where
he would just go down as.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Soon as he catch it, but he felt a little.

Speaker 5 (30:27):
More like not necessarily looking to like break out big time.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, it's funny because he had in the second Steeler
game last year, he had a long catch and run
and I think we might have talked like there are
as great of a player as he has been, there
aren't many of those.

Speaker 6 (30:41):
And that was a catch and run.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
I'm talking guys trying to tackle him, him breaking tackle
and carrying guys for a couple extra yards. That like,
just that extra stuff. I'm here for the fight after
the catch where he hasn't always given off that. I
don't feel like he's just been a guy that's like
I'm just gonna get this rebound on you.

Speaker 6 (31:01):
And that's that.

Speaker 5 (31:03):
That's felt like a little extra level to his game
this year.

Speaker 6 (31:06):
That's been fun to watch.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
And that is just it's so demoralizing across from Jamar
Chase because you're just they're so forced to play him
one on one and when he can high point and
then be a little bit more of a dog even
after the catch.

Speaker 6 (31:21):
It's just it's so true.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
I mean really, for a couple of years now, whenever
they've had that trio, the Bengals Holy Trinity on the
field together, they've been pretty close to unstoppable.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
I said this to Tony yesterday.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
I felt like his game on Sunday night, you know,
seven catches on seven targets, seven targets for seventy seven yards.
That's a good game. That's a nice game. But the
numbers don't jump off the page if you're looking at
box scores, right, I think to really appreciate how good
he was, there are times where you have to watch
the game and you know, you could look at the
box score from Jamar against Baltimore and go, boy, he

(31:57):
must have been awesome. Yeah, But like watching T it
that the stats didn't tell the entire story. It was
situations where he caught it, what those catches did, degree
of difficulty, a little yard, some yards after the catch,
like that was assuming he's not here.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
When we think about the T.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
Higgins body of work, we'll think of some of the
games where statistically he was insane. But I'll think of
a game like Sunday Night where you kind of had
to have watched it.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
To really appreciate what he did.

Speaker 5 (32:25):
And and you know, you see more of I see
more and more of this, and and it's it's you.

Speaker 6 (32:30):
Have to think that. In the Bengals owner's box, they're.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
Thinking the same thing of like can we just find
a way, right, Yes, there's got to be away to
keep this that's how do you not feel?

Speaker 3 (32:41):
How do you not how did you watch Sunday or
even what he did the week before and not feel
that way?

Speaker 4 (32:47):
Like are we sure? Are we sure? Are we sure? Well?

Speaker 3 (32:53):
It's not only are we sure we can't pay him,
but are we sure? We don't want to watch him
do that to us because you can't control where.

Speaker 6 (33:00):
He goes exactly.

Speaker 5 (33:03):
But you know what, I think it's also part of
kicking the can down one more year, is reevaluate and
maybe things change, maybe you feel differently about it after
you get through this year. I don't know that that
will be the case, but things do change often and
we'll see.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
I also do want to point out, like I.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
It's becoming very notable how in really critical moments andre
Yosfash is showing up, Like whether it was all the
red zone stuff, huge plays in the red zone, it
really since it started, But I mean that twenty nine
yard catch on third and twelve, the ability to pick
up the off script play mid stream, flip get in

(33:47):
phase immediately with burrow lock eyes, then go up vice
script the ball so he doesn't even even a tiniest
bobble there and it's not a catch toe tap come
down where it's like it feels like he has the
most bang for your buck of anybody on the team,
where every play he makes feels massive, the ones that
they've gone to him on. And you talk about demoralizing

(34:10):
for defenses, it's when when you're so worried about these
other things and then in that play, that guy too,
that guy makes that play with just off script, perfectly
with you know Burrow, who's so good at that stuff
to be able to be the one to make that play.
It's why they're going to keep him on the field
in big situations and not why that you can see
that Burrow clearly has a ton of trust in him.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Well, and it's interesting, you know, Jermaine Burton's a healthy
scratch And when Andre made that play, my statement to
anybody who would listen would be, I hope Jermaine Burton
was paying attention because those are the sort of players
you're gonna have to figure out a way to make
if if you're gonna stick and if you're gonna get
opportunities on this team. Yeah, yes, and so yeah, Jermaine
ran the street round and caught the pass against the Chiefs,

(34:51):
and that's awesome, but you're only gonna dress and get
opportunities if you can do that.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
The offense is always going to be based on these
And I'm not saying Jermaine doesn't have this and.

Speaker 6 (35:01):
He's just a rookie whatever.

Speaker 5 (35:03):
When the guys that we've seen succeed here, these high
football intelligence able to quickly connect with what Burrow's trying to.

Speaker 6 (35:11):
Do, it's he's a different quarterback. He's different than a
lot of guys.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
And whether it was Trent Irwin when he first made
a name for himself and now we're seeing what Andre
has done, and he did that a lot last year
and stuff like that, and Jamar and t obviously have
had that to connect with what Burrow is trying to do.
Understand when he's going off script, Understand his timing. It's
so important to him in the way that he and
how quickly he processes. The receivers have to now be

(35:37):
able to process along with him, which isn't always easy
to do. And so the fact that Andre's been able
to come in and pick that up, it shows. And
that's the reason that Burrow has looked for him in
so many big moments.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
All right, enjoy the game Sunday.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Thanks for as always, Paul Danner Junior, The Athletic dot Com.
The Growler podcast Balds Don't Lie came out today on
x at Paul Days.

Speaker 5 (36:00):
Good to have you as always. It was a pleasure.
I can't wait to hear the rest of the show.
I'll be listening the rest of the day.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Really.

Speaker 6 (36:06):
Oh yeah, well, at least until I got on my car.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
Thanks. It is seven away from four o'clock.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
We're a Buffalo Wild Wings Harper's Point here till six
o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 8 (36:17):
I don't know what's scary?

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Are the spot your pet chess Liftsial Home of the Bengals,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Right, it's four oh four.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Excuse me, ESPs fifteen thirty mine.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Do Leger broadcasting today from Buffalo Wild Wings Harper's Point.
We are here till six o'clock. Between now and six o'clock,
you can take advantage of a halfy hour many three
dollars chips and salsa and large tots, four dollars, Blue Blue.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
Long Island. We've got five dollar premium picks.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
We've got six dollars drinks plus six dollars everything, pretzel knots,
so much more. Also got beat ups after dark, the
four dollars bar food menu from nine pm to close.
We've got the six for nineteen ninety nine deal to entrees,
two sides, two fountain drinks. We've got bud Light specials.
We've got prizes to give away, We've got me we've

(37:07):
got buy one, get one half off Traditional Wings, and
so come on out hang out with us. We're at
a Buffalo Wild Wings Harper's Point, pretty close to I
two seventy five.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
A great location.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Staff here has been awesome, So come on out and
spend part of your afternoon slash early evening with us.
Cool plays to watch all the games this weekend. There's
a National Championship Series game to go, three college football
games tonight too. You got some Conference USA Tuesday Night
football and you can watch all of that here at
Buffalo Wild Wings. We're gonna spend some time chatting with

(37:39):
Xavier head coach Sean Miller coming up in just about
fifteen minutes. X You getting set to play a charity
exhibition game on Sunday night against the Dayton Flyers and
inching closer to the start of the season. Some tough
injury news for the Musketeers this week as well, so
we'll talk about all of that with Sean also in
just about forty minutes. Somebody who has been on this

(38:00):
show a bunch, Bill Cook, and you probably know that
name for his years covering primarily UC sports for The
Inquirer and the Cincinnati post Or. He covered other things
as well and was a general sports columnist. In the
days since his retirement, he has written a bunch of
books and they're always must reads. They're always based on

(38:21):
Cincinnati sports. His latest is one I was really excited
to read about because it was about someone that I
didn't know a ton about off the field, Greg Cook,
the legendary UC quarterback whose pro career didn't pan out
the way so many expected because of an injury suffered
during his second season with the Cincinnati Bengals. Bill has

(38:42):
written a book about Greg Cook. They're not related, if
you're wondering, they spell their names differently. Bill's gonna join
us coming up at four forty five, and I'm looking
forward to that. I was asked on Paul's podcast today
about the Bengals game on Sunday Night encouraged or discouraged.
My theme has been since Sunday Night being encouraged.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
I was encouraged.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Now, I'm not gonna tell you that watching the offense
on Sunday wasn't frustrating, because it was. And I'm not
gonna tell you that there were things that happened in
that game that didn't make me wonder about what that's
gonna mean moving forward, specifically upfront. But I went into
Sunday thinking Bengals have a good offense. They've got a

(39:25):
great quarterback, they've got really good offensive weapons, and they've
got an offensive line that's okay.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
I felt that way going into Sunday. I feel that.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Way coming out of Sunday. It was not a great performance.
The fumbles don't help. Some of the things the Giants
exposed upfront don't help. That is a good Giants defense.
Look at what they did on the road against Seattle.
Look at how well they played against the Washington Commanders.
But what I wasn't sure, and I'm still not completely sure,

(39:55):
But what I wasn't sure going into Sunday was can
the Bengals win a game where the offense isn't what
it usually is, can they win a game where the
offense has a bad game, where the offense is a
bad night, where turnovers are a problem or pass protection
is a problem. And if the answer is yes, it's
gonna be because the defense helped him win that game.

(40:15):
And if the answer is no, well then it's gonna
because the defense can't stop anybody. Say what you want
about the Giants offensively, what I saw from the Bengals
was a start. It was the beginning, now, start of
what start of such rapid improvement that a month from
now we're talking about one of the best defenses in
the NFL. Probably not, But if you walked out of

(40:37):
the one and four start still clinging to the idea
that this team could compete for something meaningful, that means
you have believed that they can make substantial improvements defensively.
If they were ever gonna do that, it required a
start that wasn't gonna happen without it starting from somewhere.

(40:58):
I looked at Sunday as a potential start, not just
with how they performed and what they held the Giants
to just ten points, but I viewed that as a
start from the standpoint of not ten points seven points.
I viewed that as a start from the perspective of

(41:21):
health wholeness, a team that used a lot of the
guys that we didn't get a chance to see in
the first five games of the season. We saw rotation
on the defensive line. We saw a wealth of options

(41:42):
up front. We saw a defense that tackled well. We
saw a defense that, in large part because maybe what
the Giants don't have, lou and Arumo didn't need to
reinvent the wheel and do a bunch of exotic things.
We saw young guys contribute. We saw Jordan battle play
I think eighteen and you know, while he might not

(42:02):
have lit the field up with a whole bunch of plays,
you didn't notice him for anything he was doing poorly.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
We saw an opportunistic turnover.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Right with the Jermaine Pratt pick, you talk about something
pulled from the twenty twenty one playbook, a turnover happening
at precisely the right time, where the Bengals give up
some yardage but don't give up any points. Defenses do
get better, you know. I mean, that's that's the thing.
We talk about it all the time. Offensively, well, they've
gotta build chemistry and the quarterbacks gonna work the timing

(42:30):
out with his receivers, and they need reps and they
need time together. But once they get that, they're gonna
be okay. Defenses get better too. You know, we talk
a lot about lose defenses in twenty twenty one. In
twenty twenty two, the twenty twenty one Bengals midway through
the season might not have been a train wreck defensively,
but they weren't exactly good. It's the same unit that

(42:52):
on Halloween gave up thirty four points to Mike White
and the New York Jets, and then the following week
gave up forty one at home to the Cleveland Browns.
For what it's worth, seven of those points by Cleveland
did come on a pick six. The Chargers came here
and hung forty one on Cincinnati in a pretty lopsided win.

(43:14):
I mean, they went through a stretch that season where
within five games of each other they gave up thirty four,
forty one, forty one. They were not a good unit.
And then toward the end of the season, what were they?
They were better.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
And it's the.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Same group that in that regular season game against Kansas
City where everybody remembers what Jamar Chase did. They were
fantastic in the second half of that game and then
in the postseason. The defense is the main reason why
that team got to a super Bowl. Defenses do get better.
Sometimes it's comfort with the scheme. Sometimes it's comfort with
each other. Sometimes it's figuring out who can do what.

(43:50):
That unit had really high end players had DJ Reeder
had A still had Trey Hendrickson obviously, but had Von
Bell younger.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Von Bell had a in his prime, Jesse Bates had
some really good pieces. But defenses do get better.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Improvement has to start somewhere, and so I looked at
Sunday as, all right, that's where the improvement can start.
That's where the seeds can be planted for a unit
that by the middle of the season, by the end
of the season, could be maybe middle of the pack.
And that's the thing we've talked about this all along, Right,
they just have to be somewhere in the middle of
the pack.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
They've just got to.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Be Okay, they don't have to be a top five defense.
They don't have to hold teams to seven points, which
is what they did against the Giants. They don't have
to do that every week. They've just got to be okay.
So why we've joked on this show about four punts, Like,
just get me four opposition punts and they're gonna be okay.
Now Sunday the Giants punted four times each. One of

(44:47):
those punts came in the first half, and it was
still nip and tuck obviously deep into the fourth quarter.
But like I do this sort of tongue in cheek
with the whole punts for pizza thing, which by the way,
no area pizza places jumped onto, which you're a loss,
not mine. But beyond that, it's just about sort of establishing,
like this defense doesn't.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
Have to be awesome. I'm gonna be okay. Force on four.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Out of ten or four out of twelve or four
out of eleven opposing offensive possessions and this team could
be okay. They did that, and they also got some
stops later in the game. It wasn't a perfect performance.
There were times where it felt like on the ground
the Giants on fourth down could do whatever they wanted
to do.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
But it was a.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Performance worth building on, worth building on because of the
point totally gave up, but also worth building upon because
it's a healthy group. It's at least a healthier group.
Players who weren't playing before were on the field on Sunday.
You saw full defensive line rotation. You saw a secondary
that allowed some catches, didn't allow any huge chunk plays,

(45:51):
tackled guys. I mean, Mike Hilton made some really great
open field tackles, and Cam Taylor Britt made some good tackles,
and it looked like a well put together, well coached defense.
Damer mentioned this in his piece on Sunday, and we
started our conversation by talking about it both on his podcast.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
And on this show.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Most of the offenses the Bengals playing in the coming
weeks look a lot more like the New York Giants
than the Washington Commanders, look a lot more like the
New York Giants than the Baltimore Ravens. Obviously they do
play the Baltimore Ravens here in a few weeks. I
was encouraged. I was encouraged because defensive improvement can happen.

(46:31):
It's got to start somewhere, and it also can't start
in late November. It can't start in mid December. It's
got to start now. Maybe it did on Sunday night.
Now we'll see if it continues. And the good news
is the Browns offensively are a train wreck and they
traded Amari Cooper away today, But.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
Defenses do get better.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Just because you're a disaster of a unit early in
the season doesn't mean there aren't brighter days ahead. We
have learned that with this team before. We have learned
that with this defense coordinator before. So for my money, uh,
Sunday night in the game against the Giants yesday won,
which is most important. But I've talked about this a
lot as it relates to the offense. Context matters apply.

(47:12):
The proper context of that game you saw a better
defense is that the foundation.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Time will tell, but I hold out hope that it
is quarter after four.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Our phone numbers if you want to try to jump in,
we'll see if we have time today. We are pretty
guest heavy. Five point three seven four nine, fifteen thirty
is our phone number. We're at Buffalo wild Wings. Harper's point.
College basketball season is getting closer and closer. XU head
coach Sean Miller joins US next on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
This is football Illnetti, brought to you, in part by
modern office methods, on the official home of the Bengals,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Buffalo Wild Wings, Harper's point here till six o'clock by one,
get one half, all traditional Wings, bud Light specials, and
so much more. We've already given away a Bengals golf
hootye thanks to bud Light. We've got another one we're
given away, and we've got the greatest cooler of all
time as well. A couple of football notes. We'll have

(48:17):
some Scott Saderfield audio for you a little bit later on.
The Browns have traded Amari Cooper to the Buffalo Bills.
So one less skill player I guess to worry about
on Sunday is Bengals get set to go to Cleveland
and the Bengals Eagles game a week from Sunday, which
was going to be a four to twenty five kickoff
the White Bengal game, if you will, that has been

(48:40):
moved to a one o'clock kickoff with pregame coverage on
ESPN fifteen thirty starting at nine am, So adjust accordingly.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Instead of four to twenty five.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Bengals and Eagles will play at one o'clock home game
for Cincinnati a week from this Sunday.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
We're going to get a break in.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
We're supposed to be chatting with Sean or any second now,
we'll try to run him down. Hopefully connect with the
Xavier head coach after this. On ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Station, You've been listening to Football in the Natti on
the official home of the Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati's esc fresh off their primetime victory over the Giants.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
For the touchdown.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Joel Burrow and his Bengals roaring to Cleveland to take
down the prime Sachs. It's an AFC nord showdown touchdown.
The Orange and Black are ready to attack.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Dam Hobbard, tackle the King at the end.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
And Hoard Indeed, Lavin bring you the call. Coverage starts
Sunday morning at nine on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official
home of the Bengals.

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Sports at Lines, a service of Kelsey Chevroli, home of
five time power train protection and guaranteed the credit approval
from their family to.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Yours for life. Kelsey Chef dot Com Bank off today.
Players back to work tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Getting said for second consecutive road game, this one on
Sunday against the Browns and kicks off at one o'clock.
You'll hear it live on ESPN fifteen thirty pre game
covered starts excuse me at nine am. Browns have traded
Amari Cooper to the Buffalo Bills. Two wide receivers get
dealt within the last just what eight to ten hours,

(50:24):
DeVante Adams to the New York Jets, Amari Cooper to
the Buffalo Bills. The Bengals Eagles game a week from
Sunday has been moved to a one o'clock kickoff.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
Was a four to twenty five game. To keep that
in mind.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
College football, UC's safety Antoine Peak Junior name to the
Pro Football Focused National Team of the Week, the country's
second highest great safety. In Saturday's win over UCF, he
forced two fumbles. Baseball playoffs in the Bronx game two tonight,
American League Championship Series Yankees and Guardians New York winning

(50:57):
game won last night, and the Columbus Blue Jackets. We'll
play tonight at home against Florida. It is going to
be their home opener and obviously a very very emotional
scene tonight as they pay tribute to Johnny and Matthew Gudreau.
That game air tonight on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Sean Miller,

(51:18):
any second, now, we're told perhaps the head coach of
the Musketeers scheduled to join us. You know, he'll call
in late and we're gonna make him run or something
like that. Musketeer Madness is on Friday, Xavier and Dayton
at U.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
The Arena is going to.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Be on a Sunday afternoon, a major expectations for the
Musketeers last year. One of the things I want to
talk with them about following the NBA is Quincy Oliveri
with the LA Lakers has made waves in the preseason,
and obviously Sean has had his hands full with his
team and getting ready for the season, but I'm sure
he's been paying attention to Quincy, and so we'll spend

(51:56):
a few minutes on that one thing really quick.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
The goal Glove.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Finalists were announced today, not the goal glove winners, but
the goal glove finalists were announced and no Red was
among the finalists. Now, that doesn't mean if you're not
nominated or if you're not a finalist for a goal glove,
it doesn't mean that you're not a good defensive player,

(52:23):
but it illustrates what I think is one of the
main charges of the offseason for Nick Krawl, and I
guess to a degree Terry Francona, the Reds must be
a better defensive team in twenty twenty four. So we've
heard and read a lot about what the Reds might
do with Matt McLain and Jonathan India and is either
willing to move to the outfield?

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Will they move one to the outfield?

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Matt McClain was scratched by the way from an Arizona
Fall League game last night. I can appreciate either player's
willingness to move. I could certainly understand in some circumstances
wanting to see if a guy can add playing a
different position to his repertoire.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
So to speak.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
But the Reds need to be better defensively next season,
and so as we talk about roster construction in twenty
twenty five, like they need, they need better production offensively
from the outfield, They need a better defensive outfield, They
need a better defensive team. Do you get the best
possible defensive team by shoehorning players into roles that they

(53:24):
really haven't been in. Like I think, the best way
to upgrade the outfield is to acquire outfielders, like players
who have a significant professional background playing those positions.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
That doesn't mean.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
There isn't room for guys who can play both. That
doesn't mean one or both of those players or other
players shouldn't be encouraged.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
To learn how to play the outfield.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
But like like I think, I think, just when I
think about the Reds in recent years, it has felt
to me like spent way too much time talking about
taking a player who's good at this one thing and
trying to get him to do this other thing. There
are obviously players who are valuable because they can play both.
Spencer Steer is obviously one of them. And for some

(54:13):
of these guys, if they want more playing time or
they don't want to be squeezed out of a starting spot,
it makes sense to learn how to play a different position.
But as we talked about roster construction, how about this
concept find outfielders who have significant experience, you know, playing

(54:37):
in the outfield, Because I know there have been success stories.
Billy Hamilton jumps to the front of everybody's mind. Right,
he was a shortstop and not a great one. They
moved him to centerfield and he was unbelievable defensively. That's
probably not the rule. I might not be able to
find an outfielder who's defensively as good as Billy Hamilton,
but my chances of having good outfield play I think

(55:00):
increase if my solution to the outfield problem is.

Speaker 4 (55:05):
To go find outfielders.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Now that fits within a general theme, and it's you know,
we want to see the Reds get healthier on the
mound and maybe find a veteran starting pitcher, and they
need to be more well rounded team offensively, and they
have to run the bases better and there's plenty of
room for improvements.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
With the bats.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
But this team defensively. Advanced metrics did not like it.
And you may crinkle your nose when I mentioned advanced metrics,
but they're used by every big League team, including this one,
and they tell a story, might not tell the complete story.
This was not at not a great defensive team next season,
and so as we talk about what the roster is

(55:42):
gonna look like in twenty twenty five, I think as
much attention needs to be paid to that as what
they do offensively. And whenever I hear, well, we're gonna
take this guy and just see if he could play
the outfield. First of all, that's something you do if
you're experimenting. I'm not looking to experiment that much this year.
I gonna win a World Series in twenty twenty five.
Might sound stupid, but why else did you hire Terry Francona.

(56:05):
I want the experimentation to be at a minimum this season.
And so if you take Matt McClain and decide we're
gonna teach them how to play the outfield, that's fine.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
That can't be your main plan.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
In the outfield, or Jonathan India and if you go,
wait a minute, then one of those guys is gonna
have to come off the bench.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
Okay, what did the Reds have a problem with last season? Depth?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
The bench being ready for injury like it's it's it's
it's okay if a really good player's playing time gets
squeezed out because instead of trying to shoehorn someone into
a position they've never played, they actually go find someone
who's played it and played it well. And yes, we're
gonna focus most on what each one of those players

(56:46):
they acquire, if they acquire any, what they do offensively.
But this team needs to be better on defense. The
margin for error at times this season no pun intended
was shrunk because they weren't good on defense. And sometimes
it's making errors. Sometimes it's player positioning or being able
to get to a ball.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
Sometimes it's making the easy play.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Ellie de la Cruz gets talk to he's got to
improve as a defensive player. I think it's kind of
silly to suggest he should play the outfield next season.
Why do you invest all this time in him being
a shortstop? And I think there's so much capability there
that it's worth continuing to do what they're doing. But
he does have to get better, and he's got to
get better at making the routine play. But he is
at least a shortstop playing shortstop. I want to see

(57:29):
the Reds use outfielders to improve the outfield, and if
they do that, I think at least they have a
better chance of improving who they are and what they
are defensively.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Twenty four minutes.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Away from five o'clock, as the coach colonists Sean Miller
here am I at a holding pattern. All right, the
Xavier Musketeers will have a game on Sunday, an exhibition
game at Dayton at Udy Arena against the Dayton Flyers
and Musketeer.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
This is gonna be on Friday night.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
That combines both the men's team Exavier and the women's
team at the Centas Center.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
That is always and awesome.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
E then, and obviously we're getting closer and closer to
the twenty twenty four twenty twenty five college basketball season.
And the head coach of the Musketeers is with us,
Sean Miller, coach. It's good to have you.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
How are you.

Speaker 8 (58:22):
I'm doing great. How are you doing.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
I'm well, it's everything okay, you all right.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Yeah, everything is good.

Speaker 8 (58:30):
Everything's good.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
All right.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Let's start with this weekend. You're gonna play a basketball game.
And that sounds like no kidding, but typically in the preseason,
you know, maybe you've played a school from another level,
you've played some of those secret scrimmages. Now you're gonna
go on the road and play in like a big
time college basketball environment. It's gonna be game reps kind

(58:54):
of walk us through what this is gonna be like
on Sunday, compared to how you typically have handled the preseason.

Speaker 8 (59:04):
Hey, MO, I have a bad connection. I'm not sure,
but you or I. I'm gonna call you right back. Can
I do that?

Speaker 4 (59:11):
You can do that. I'll tell you what.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
We'll get a break in, we'll reestablish our connection with
Sean Miller, and we'll talk with the Xavier head coach
when we come back. We're Buffalo wild Wings in Harper's
Point on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 9 (59:26):
This is Dave Laplock and you're listening to the Home
of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
All right, take two, let's do it. Got nineteen away
from five o'clock. The head coach of the Xavier Musketeers
and host of the Shawn Miller podcast, Sean Miller. This
is why you have your podcast guests in studio. No
phone connections.

Speaker 8 (59:47):
That's exactly right. Sorry about that, Mo.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
All good, No, you sound good. Always flattered that you've
chosen to join us. Let me start with this weekend
and we'll sort of start back and move ahead. Played
preseason scrimmages before, you've played exhibition games against you know,
schools from the Division two or three level or you've
played traveling club teams, You're going to go on the

(01:00:10):
road and play a Division One opponent and and historical rivals.
So kind of walk us through the preparation and the
execution of a game that's going to feel like a
regular season game, but in the standings and in the
rankings doesn't count.

Speaker 8 (01:00:27):
Yeah, So I think, first of all, you know, we
came together Dayton and Xavier really from Anthony Grant reaching
out to us. Obviously, the game has a bigger issue
at stake than just the basketball component. You know, the
mental health part of it, suicide prevention, suicide awareness, and

(01:00:47):
especially here in the state of Ohio, and I think
to be able to come together Xavier, Dayton to basketball
programs for that cause, you know that that's a big
part of this because you know that's what the game
is really centered on, and I know in particular that
that's something that's sacred to Anthony Grant and his family
and me knowing Anthony for a long period of time,

(01:01:11):
almost two decades again in an effort to partner with
him on something like that, it means a lot to
us at Xavier means a lot to me. So that's
the first part in terms of basketball. You know, we're
gonna learn a lot about our team. You know, you
can always play a good competition, and Dayton's certainly going
to be that. But to get the atmosphere of ud Arena,

(01:01:33):
playing a true away game in front of a sold
out crowd in the month of October, I think that
will have some additional benefits for our team, because, let's
face it, winning on the road in college basketball that
might be at the top of the list of the
most difficult things for all of us to do and
to get some practice and what it feels like and

(01:01:54):
have to deal with that, I think it could be
something that helps us down the line.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
You're you're gonna learn a lot about your team on Sunday. Uh,
I'm sure you've learned some things about your team over
the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
What are some of those things.

Speaker 8 (01:02:08):
Well, we lost Lacina tree or to a season ending injury,
and you know, I really don't even want to talk
about it a whole lot, because you know, it's it's
not it's not good news before we even start. And uh,
you know to some degree, uh, he's irreplaceable. You know,
we we have to be able to replace him with
not one player, but as a team all of us

(01:02:29):
and come united and and and and grow and and
get better and maybe different ways than we otherwise would have.
But we're an older group, We're a more experienced group,
and I think that we probably have more offensive firepower
than we would have a year ago. And uh, you know,
like a lot of teams were at the beginning stages

(01:02:49):
of growing and proving. So uh, but I think we
have a lot to work with and uh again, these
next couple of weeks will be big for us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
So you know, you mentioned Lacina, and I know it's
something you don't want to spend a lot of time on,
but I look, I'm sitting there yesterday morning and I
see your tweet and the first thing that stood out
to me was, that's a coach who feels for the kid.
There's a basketball application. This is a kid who averaged
a double double, a big who is going to make.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
An impact this year. But there's the human part of this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
How hard is it to deal with a kid like
this who comes to your program, is excited to play
in the Big East, and now that opportunity is going
to be delayed.

Speaker 8 (01:03:29):
It's devastating. It's the hardest thing I think for a
coach to deal with because you're helpless. There's really not
anything you can do other than just do the best
job you can of being creative with the environment to
support him. You know, it's not just you, it's you
and your family. It's not just the head coach, it's

(01:03:50):
the entire staff. Then it becomes all of his teammates,
and then to some degree the Xavier basketball community. I mean,
Messina is from the Ivory Coast. Know his family is
in Africa. He made the decision to join us in
the spring. He had some great choices, really came down
to Oregon or Xavier. We were thrilled to get him.

(01:04:12):
And then you know, Mo, you learn these guys because
you're around them in essence all summer and then in
his case, for a lot a lot of the fall.
So the last five months, you know, you figure out
who's your hardest worker, who's a great teammate.

Speaker 7 (01:04:27):
You know, who's.

Speaker 8 (01:04:28):
Somebody that has winning qualities. And I would have said check, check,
check next to his name. Great teammate, incredibly hard worker,
an incredible teammate. I think he had a huge upside.
So when then everything's taken from him. There's not a
lot you can do now. The other part of it is,
I do think he can return back to Forum next season,

(01:04:51):
but it's it's tough for you and I to talk
about next season when we haven't begun this season, you know,
And I think that's the hardest part.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
Yeah, I've got to think.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
The flip side of that, though, is when you get
guys who couldn't play last year, And obviously the first
guy that comes to mind for me is Jerome Hunter
because of everything he's been through. So when he can
get on the floor again, from a basketball coaches perspective,
you're thrilled to have him. But just the human part
of that, it's got to make you feel great to
see him out.

Speaker 8 (01:05:17):
There, no doubt, and Zach Fremano and Jerome I would
share the same sentiment. You know. It'd be like Lesina
a year from today, knowing the rehabilitation, the surgery, the isolation,
those dark days that accompany somebody having season ending injuries,
you know, and your best attempt to keep them as
part of what you're doing. There is that isolation and

(01:05:40):
to support them through that is one thing. But then
when they get to the other side, and you see
the resolve, how much they've been strengthened, how excited they
are to be back out there. You know, that's the
opposite feeling of the devastation. So we're thrilled to have
both Zach and Jerome with us right now. Those guys
are fully cleared. They've been fully cleared for a while,

(01:06:01):
especially Zach, and I think they'll both be productive players
for US this season.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Ex You head coach Sean Miller with US Musketeer Madness
on Friday. Starts at five o'clock at the Centa Center
FanFest and the plaza doors open at six. Women's scrimmage
at seven o'clock, followed by the men right around seven
forty five. Among the new players you bring in this year,
I loved watching last season that Indiana State team, and
so I watched Ryan Conwell a lot. For those who

(01:06:29):
maybe haven't had a chance to see him nearly as much,
describe his game for me.

Speaker 8 (01:06:35):
So, Ryan is a six to three guard. He has
a unique body, weighs two hundred and fifteen pounds, so
he's strong and stocky. He uses that to his advantage.
He's incredibly efficient. Moh, you know whether you look at
the shots he takes, the ones that he makes. Last year,
he made more three point shots than Quincy Oliveri did

(01:06:57):
for US, and he shot it at a very similar percentage.
You know, Indiana State was just an incredibly fun team
for any basketball fan to watch, and I would say
if Ryan wasn't their best player, he was certainly one
of them. And he has a lot of winning qualities
as well. He just he plays the game in a
smart way and he impacts winning in a variety of

(01:07:19):
ways besides his scoring. But we're really thrilled to have him.
You know, like I talked about Jerome and Zach, you know,
Ryan Conwell would be instrumental to our team this year.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Give me similar scouting report with Dante Maddox.

Speaker 8 (01:07:35):
Yeah, a lot of the same things that I talked
to you about with Ryan Conwell. Dante brings the same characteristics.
You know, Dante played at Toledo where he won the
last two Mid American Conference regular season championships. You know
that Mo that that's a conference that deserves a lot
of credit. I mean there's some really good coaches and
players in that league. So he comes from a winning environment.

(01:07:58):
Like Ryan, he can really shoot the basketball. He knows
how to play, can do it on defense and offense.
And again, part of what we wanted to do in
building our roster is to build an experienced group, a
veteran group, a group that that could could play with
skill and could score and really add that firepower to

(01:08:21):
our to our roster. And I think Dante Maddox and
Ryan Conwell really do that for us.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
We've done this in college basketball now for a few years,
where you know, summer camp and and preseason practice is
about meshing all these guys together who played the previous
season and other programs. I know this is going to
sound like a weird question, but is this starting to
feel normal?

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Doing it this way?

Speaker 7 (01:08:49):
You know it better? Right?

Speaker 8 (01:08:50):
I don't know if it's I do know this. It's
here to stay, you know. So you know, the world changes,
you have to grow and evolve and adapt. And I
think all industries and sometimes in sports, all of us
just we want to keep it how it once was.
Well that's not how this works. So we're all I think,
growing and adapting and evolving as our world does. So

(01:09:14):
it does feel more normal now. You know, when I
was at Arizona during that period of time, everybody wanted
to be in college for just a year or two. Right,
So if you're the college basketball player, that's very good.
You felt the pressure to leave college basketball and become
a pro one and done, two and done. You know,

(01:09:35):
if you became an upper classman, you almost were made
to feel like something's wrong with you, You're not good enough. Right, Well,
at least that's not the same, you know. Now, I
think that there's a lot of players that are staying
in college basketball longer they're in their fourth and fifth year.
In some ways, mo, I think it makes our game,

(01:09:56):
the game of college basketball, even more exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
I think as a fan, and you know I'm different,
but like there's a transactional part to the offseason, so
I can spend like you know, again, I mentioned I
watched Ryan Conwell a lot, so I can I can
try to figure out how he's going to fit in
with the kids that you bring back. You're not a fan,
though you're a coach. Your livelihood depends on this, But
I agree with you. I think it makes I know

(01:10:20):
there are challenges. I know it's no fun to lose
a kid, but as a fan, I think there's been
a lot of positive to just watching watching teams get
put together and changing how we talk about college basketball
in the offseason.

Speaker 4 (01:10:33):
That's just me, though.

Speaker 8 (01:10:36):
Yeah, you know, I think the NFL is a great
litmus test. This would be my perspective. What makes the
NFL so amazing, I think for all of us is
the parody. You know, whether it's just how many close
games happen all at once on Sunday, or you know,
you're in early December and what three quarters of the

(01:10:56):
league still have an opportunity to be in the playoffs,
and then then the playoffs begin, and I know the
Chiefs have been on fire, but let's face that, anybody
can beat anybody, you know on that one shot deal.
And it's like everybody loves the NFL because of the parody.
And I think that's what makes March Madness so special
that on any given day, it's not the best team,

(01:11:19):
but who plays the best on that day. And if
that's been if there's been parody before, mo, I don't
think that they'll be anywhere close to what's going to
happen in our future because of what you brought up,
that there's so much change from one season to the
next that it's just it's really hard to differentiate who's who.

(01:11:39):
And I think that this this March madness, and even
making the tournament, it's going to be more difficult than
ever before for all of us.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Xavier head coach Sean Miller, you mentioned the name. I'm
watching NBA TV two or three nights ago, and they're
showing Lakers Bucks preseason highlights and Quincy OLIVERI is taking
over in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
You've got your hands full of your team. But and
then I you know, I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Read folks who cover the LA Lakers because I'm a nerd,
and they're raving about him, and Lebron James is talking
about Quincy OLIVERI. Have have you followed this, Have you
had a chance to talk with him? It feels like
he's got a chance to.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
Make the club.

Speaker 8 (01:12:24):
Yeah, I sure hope. So. I do think that what
he's done is he's put himself in a great position
to be an NBA player if it doesn't work out
with the Lakers, and I don't know if it will
or will not. I hope it does. But when you
you know, you're always auditioning for somebody at that level,
and you know you catch another general manager's eye or

(01:12:45):
somebody in another team. A lot of times that next
opportunity comes from exactly what you just said. It's what
you did in the month of October with the Lakers
that gave you the next opportunity. But look, there's one
thing that I've learned about Quincy. He's early to rie
and he's late to go to bed, and he's about
the main thing. The main thing with him is making

(01:13:09):
the NBA and being the best player he can be.
He's not confused and uh and he puts all eggs
in his basket. He's super smart, he's incredibly driven, he's
a great worker, tireless worker. And then as you know,
he is an elite shot maker. And you put all
that together, it only takes one NBA team to like you.

(01:13:29):
And I believe this. I think they'll be an NBA
team that's gonna that's gonna want him to be a
part of what they do.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
You've had a lot of guys get to the next level,
get to the NBA.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
What's what's the role of what's your role in all that?

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Or do do the Lakers reach out to do other
teams reach out? And look, you had him for a
year so it's it's a little bit different than if
you had a guy for a longer stretch of time.
But what's your role in that process where teams are
giving a shot to a guy that you coached.

Speaker 8 (01:13:59):
You know, I always try to have a role, and
I want the role to be positive. In some situations,
I don't have much of one, even if I wanted to,
And then there have been some others that you know,
I really just try to stay in the game and
in the player's corner because look, if I can push
him one percent five percent, if I can be helpful

(01:14:20):
in any way, it might be simply just answering a
few questions. You know, I always want want to want
to be available because at the end of the day,
that's that's what this is all about, right, seeing them
reach their goals and dreams, and when that happens, it's
it's an amazing feeling for everybody, including our fans, Right,
there's nothing that they want to see more than seeing

(01:14:41):
Quincy all a very way or where an NBA uniform.
He represents us, the sinst them. So I always try
to help and in some way I believe I can
be helpful with Quincy.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Yeah, definitely rooting for him. You have a busy weekend
this weekend and then things really get going. You've got
musketeer Manness on Friday, and then the charity exhibition against
the Dayton Flyers up at ud Arena at five o'clock
on Sunday. I cannot thank you enough of your time.
I'm a big fan of the podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
We love having you and uh hopefully we can do
it during the season. Coach, thanks so much.

Speaker 8 (01:15:16):
You know, mo, I might have to get you on
as as a guest, you know, and as you know,
when you start doing these podcasts, you start running out
of out of certain.

Speaker 7 (01:15:24):
Players or whatever.

Speaker 8 (01:15:25):
This maybe maybe I'll reverse the game on.

Speaker 4 (01:15:27):
You, all right, you know, you know, here's the deal.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
During during the pandemic, when like folks were hard up
for people, we found out I'm a good podcast guess
because you know, people would run through their rolodexic guests
and then it would get empty and they'd call me.

Speaker 4 (01:15:38):
So I have filled that role before.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
I would be honored beyond belief to be your I
will quickly roll on you.

Speaker 8 (01:15:45):
But I'm in This isn't yeah, no, no, no, this
isn't one of these invites because I'm run out of guests.
I do think you'd be a great Uh. You'd be
a great change up though, you know for me, and uh,
and look, I need all the help I can get,
but yeah, we're gonna get you on. Okay, we'll make it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
You need no help, but I will be honored and
let's make that happen. I appreciate the time as always.

Speaker 8 (01:16:05):
Coach, thanks you all right, Okay, you take care of mom.

Speaker 4 (01:16:09):
You got it. Sean Miller, head coach of the Musketeers.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Musketeer Madness fan fest at five doors open at six
men's and women's programs, both involved. Billy Chambers team will
take the floor at seven o'clock for a scrimmage, and
then Shawn's Xavier squad takes the floor at right about
seven forty five. And I know there are folks in
our audience who might not be following the NBA preseason

(01:16:33):
all that closely, but Quincy Oliveri has done some really
cool things with the LA Lakers and a friend of
the show because he joined us from the Final four
when he was competing in both the three point competition
and he was in the NABC All Star Game and
again Friday Musketeer Madness Xavier Dayton at ud Arena and

(01:16:55):
what Anthony Grant and his staff have done with these
charity exhibitions promoting and encouraging an increased awareness of mental
health absolutely awesome. Xavier Dayton part of that on Sunday
and uc Ohio State for.

Speaker 4 (01:17:10):
The same initiative on Friday evening.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
Good stuff from a Shawn Miller And if you haven't
listened to the Shawn Miller podcast, it's entertaining. It's entertaining
stuff all right. Now, we're here for the next hour
at Buffalo Wild Wings Harper's Point. We've got bud Light specials,
buy one, get one half off traditional Wings. We've got
the six for nineteen ninety nine special, two entrees, two sides,

(01:17:33):
two fountain drinks, and so much more.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
We're still giving away the cooler.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
We're still giving away one more Bengals bud Light hoodie.

Speaker 4 (01:17:41):
I'm wearing one right now. I look good in this thing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
Our buddy Sean Sayet is going to join us. Our
friend Bill Cook is going to join us. We had
to move him to five thirty three. At least I
think he agreed to move to five thirty three. We'll
find out, I guess and we're here for another hour.
You can I got to get to a poll question
thanks to United Heartland Insurance. We'll do that at Moegger
and perhaps if we have time, squeezing a phone call
or two as well. Five point three seven four nine

(01:18:05):
fifteen thirty eight sixty six seven oh two three seven
seven six.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
Anything you might have missed you can go find on.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
The iHeartRadio app or my page at ESPN fifteen thirty
dot com. We're broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wings Harper's Point.

Speaker 4 (01:18:20):
We're here for another hour.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
It's five o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Good Borrow and his Bengals roar into Cleveland to take
down the brim. Yes, said sax say, it's an AFC
NORD showdown.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Well into the NZ touchdown.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
The Orange and Black are ready to attend.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Dam Hobbard tackle the King.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Hit the n Done n Ord and Dave Leaven bring
you the call. Coverage starts Sunday morning at nine on
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
Yeah, what's up? Good aping name Bleger, ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thank you for listening and joining us for a Buffalo
Wild Wings.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
Well like nine minutes late, we sort of flew by
the seat of our pants.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
That are but great to have a Sean.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
Miller with us. And I think I'd be a good
guest on this podcast. I'm gonna be a guest on
the Bengal Gym podcast tonight and so that'd be fun
for everybody. And then I think I think Sean Miller
and I talking hoops on his podcast. I think would
be a I'm gonna I'm gonna wait for my invitation.
I think it'd be a lot of fun. Always cool
of Sean to join us whenever we ask our buddy.

(01:19:27):
Speaking of Shawn, Sean sayed Sumer Sports Schemes, Stats and
Schemes podcast, who is terrific He is gonna be with
us at five twenty. I think he's bullish on the Bengals.
I think he should be bullish on the Bengals. I
was bullish on the Bengals at one and four. As
the guy who on this show said, like that is
a stock, you're buying it low, I'll buy it low.

(01:19:48):
I'm buying it because of the offense. I feel exactly
the same way about the Bengals offensively after the Giants game,
as I did going in, and I'm using Sunday Night
as a foundation. Defenses do get better. I think it's
the fun part I believe of following a team during
a season, and I think maybe a little bit more
so in sports like football and basketball, but it can

(01:20:10):
apply to others. Is watching what a team starts off
as and seeing what it becomes.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
Sometimes they get worse.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
Maybe injury has something to do with that, maybe attrition
in other ways has something to do with that, But.

Speaker 4 (01:20:23):
Oftentimes how it gets better.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
And I think sometimes because we love being right and
we love affirmation, we love you know, we'd rather be
right than be happy. In some cases, what we initially see,
in what our initial take is is not something that
we're gonna veer from. I think there are some UC
football fans who are guilty of this because they've decided

(01:20:47):
they're out on Scott's sadderfield, or they never embraced him
being the coach. I'm not here to tell you that
I'm one hundred percent sure that he's the guy to
take this program to the next level. But I think
the Bearcats are better than they were a month ago.
I think the Bearcats are significantly better than they were
a year ago, and I think they're they're moving in
the right direction this year's team to a degree, the program,

(01:21:10):
I think with the Bengals, I used the illustration before,
you know, twenty twenty one, when a team has a
great year and a year that's remembered with such, you know,
tremendous fondness forever, I think we sometimes act as if, boy,
that team just destroyed everybody, right Like, I'm a UC
basketball fan, and you know, we revere Kenyon Martin's senior year,

(01:21:32):
and certainly that team had a share of blowouts. But
I remember that year very very well, and there were
some games that were a little bit more difficult than
perhaps they should have been, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
Or there were there were.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
Games that Kenyan had to like put the team on
his shoulder because they were backed up against the wall.
The twenty twenty one UC football team, they went undefeated, man, but.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
There were times during that year where.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
They beat Tulsa by eight points, and they struggled against
Navy and the two lane game was closer than it
should have been. The twenty one Bengals, you know, if
you look at that team defensively midway through the.

Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
Season, not great, not great at all.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Gave up thirty four to Mike White, and the Jets
allowed the Chargers to come here and hang forty one
on them, gave up forty one to a very okay
at best Browns team, And then things started to click
down the stretch, and they were awesome in the second
half of the regular season game against the Chiefs, and
they were terrific in the postseason in the three wins

(01:22:32):
that they piled up on on the way to the
Super Bowl. Defenses do improve, Maybe this defense does improve.
By the way, I tend to think there's a good
chance at will, because look, they've got a lot of
young players, but they've got a lot of young players
who weren't exactly pulled off the scrap heap. And so
if their evaluations of those young players proves to be
correct and they stay healthy, then I just I'm led

(01:22:55):
to believe that by the middle of the season or
by the end of the season. I guess we're getting
kind of close to the middle of the season. By
the end of the season, the Bengals could have a
pretty good unit on the strength of a lot of
those guys. The Bengals chose to draft, but Killy Jackson
played a second NFL game on Sunday night. Chris Jenkins
got a slow start to the season because he wasn't available.
DJ Turner made a huge play, Jordan Battle got some run.

(01:23:17):
And yet there are some veteran players that you need
more from. You need more from Sheldon Rankins, you need
more from his a general rule, Sam Hubbard, you need
more from Logan Wilson and Jermaine Pratt. By the way,
the Jermaine Pratt pick on Sunday night, that was the
twenty twenty one play. That was the play. That's what
the Bengals did in twenty twenty one. Let teams move
the ball, get a turnover in the red zone.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
They got it. And so I as bullish as I.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
Was last week, with one more win under their belt,
I'm more bullish now. Speaking of the Bearcats, Scott Saderfield's
gonna join us, or as that I canna join us.
We're gonna hear from him coming up in just about
thirty minutes. You know, the uc Bearcats on Saturday ugly
win a game that they should have won by probably

(01:24:04):
three touchdowns. UCF started a third string quarterback. They got
away from RJ. Harvey on the ground in a close game,
and that didn't make sense. I worry about the kicking
with UC. The injury issue is I'm not necessarily sure
going away, because boy, they had a lot of dudes
who took the field that were kind of beaten up

(01:24:24):
on Saturday. But if you're going to have a successful season,
you got to figure out ways to win when you're
maybe not at your best. To do that in conference
play on the road is not easy.

Speaker 4 (01:24:36):
I thought twenty twenty one.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
It came to my mind on Saturday when I was
watching that game on Saturday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
It was sloppier than you would like.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
Bearcats didn't finish drives, didn't capitalize in scoring points in
the red zone, and yet as an underdog went on
the road and won, which is really hard to do.
It is hard to do, and that game felt to
me like that middle stretch in twenty twenty one, where
they gutted out victories and found ways to win when
they weren't at their best, and they were sizeable favorites

(01:25:08):
against teams that you could argue they should have beaten
more handily. I'm not telling you this team is as
good as twenty twenty one, because it's clearly not.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
But they found a way to win on the road.

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
In conference play, they're two to one, and on two
different occasions they haven't allowed a really tough loss emotionally.

Speaker 4 (01:25:29):
To hang over the team the following week.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
It did not when they lost to Pittsburgh the way
they did, and it did not and they had a
bye week.

Speaker 4 (01:25:36):
It did not after the Texas Tech game either.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
We're at Buffalo Wild Wings Harper's point, if you're just
getting off work in the area, come on out and
hang out. We're still drawing for a cooler. We're still
drawing for a hoodie. Was our winner not here?

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
All right? We drew a winner. She wasn't here, So
that's gonna be somebody's gain.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
You got to get here between now and six o'clock
by one get one half off Traditional Wings Bud Light
Specials six for nineteen ninety nine deal, which is two entrees,
two sides, and two fountain drinks for just nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):
You cannot beat that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
You also cannot beat Sean sayed he's going to talk
Bengals with us next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Station Bengals Cincinnatis ESPN fifteen thirty. This is football in
Thenetti run to you in pipe by blood Light and
by Skyline Shilly on the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis,
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
It is twenty two minutes after five o'clock on ESPN
fifteen thirty on my Leger Broadcasting, as.

Speaker 4 (01:26:39):
We do every Tuesday, Buffalo Wild Wings.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
Harper's Point and kind enough to join us every week
during the season.

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
Somebody we have loved having with us.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
Sean Sayed, a host of the Stats and Scheme podcast,
also the author of the Monday Morning Mashup column for
Sumer Sports, which you should read every single Monday, full
rundown of everything that happened that mattered. It's some stuff
that didn't matter in the NFL. Bengals and Giants mattered,
at least to us. Maybe it mattered to Sean.

Speaker 4 (01:27:10):
How you doing, sir, No, I'm doing great.

Speaker 10 (01:27:13):
You know the second time we get to talk after
a win, certainly hope to continue to get those going,
and I would agree. You know, you play on Sunday night,
you get a win, you start rolling. You look at
to the schedule, maybe you pull three more wins in
a row before you go ahead and play Baltimore.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
That would be great.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
A cynic would look at Sunday night and say, well,
the Giants didn't have Malik Neighbors, they didn't have Devin
single Terry. They're not a team that was going to
beat the Bengals downfield with a bunch of explosive plays.
Maybe it wasn't a given the Bengals were going to
hold them to just seven points, but that's a team
against which the Bengals should play well defensively. Can you

(01:27:48):
throw water over that or on top of that's gonna cynicism.

Speaker 10 (01:27:53):
I think that what I liked from this game, Even
considering and understanding, yes, the Giants are not a top
end offense in this league, you still get examples where
Trey Hendrickson is able to go against a top tackle
in the league, and Andrew Thomas then create pressures and
get sacked, and then bj Hill and Sheldon Rankins they
looked stout on the inside. So I do think that

(01:28:13):
that can carry over a bit where even though you're
not playing against the best competition.

Speaker 9 (01:28:18):
Look, the Browns offense is not exactly lighting.

Speaker 4 (01:28:20):
The world on fire.

Speaker 10 (01:28:20):
Maybe they're lighting it on fire in a negative way
a little bit, but you start to feel a little
bit better. Where we talked the past few weeks about
oh man, what are they gonna do on the inside
and run defense, Now you get guys playing a little
bit better. I do think that's a sign of better
things to come.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
Here's what I liked about it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
I saw a defensive line that was healthy, and I
saw a defensive line.

Speaker 4 (01:28:40):
Look, you and I have talked about Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
Need to put more pressure on the quarterback, uh, but
Trey Hendrickson needed help. And the defensive line that I
saw with McKinley Jackson, with Sheldon Rankins and with bj
Hill who was terrific and Chris Jenkins, Like, all right,
So maybe we're not talking about a collection of superstars there,
but players the Bengals believed enough into pay or draft early.

(01:29:02):
And so what I saw was a defensive line capable
of using a lot of guys rotationally and providing help
to Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 4 (01:29:10):
Can you speak to that?

Speaker 9 (01:29:12):
Yeah, And having a rotation is such an important thing
in the league because you know your defensive.

Speaker 10 (01:29:16):
Linemen are not going to play every single stat I
think one of the advantages are is that offensive linemen
have to take every snap, but defensive guys, you're hopefully
you're able to cycle them out a little bit and
when you go to that second unit, which you're going
to in some of these games, and you can feel
a little bit more positive about it, that's a good thing.
But really, anything that can help tre Hendrickson out, whether
it's you know, you get a good play on the

(01:29:38):
opposite end as well, and if you can force the
offensive line to just have to worry about other players
just a little bit, you can create really true one
on ones where you have Henderson who he can beat
all pro players in this league. And on the defensive side,
sometimes you just need one shutdown playmaker. And when Henderson's
able to do it and the other defensive linemen are

(01:29:59):
able to continue to make him look better too, that
starts to become something where, you know, we're not going
to talk about this as a top ten defense, but
a defense that can shut the door when the Bengals
offense scores enough points.

Speaker 3 (01:30:10):
Well, you know, and also like in basketball, we say, boy,
you know what, the offense looks great when the shots
are going. In a defense, looks great when when the
tackles are made, and you know that's a function to
being in the right position and taking the right angles
and all sort of that stuff. But as as much
as you know, we might love to dive into the
to the x's and o's, which are important, sometimes it's
as simple as guy catches it, you bring him to

(01:30:31):
the ground, or guy takes a hand off, you bring
him to the ground. And the Bengals haven't always been
good at that. This year, that's to me what stood
down stood out on Sunday night. They were good at
making tackles.

Speaker 10 (01:30:41):
Yeah, that's it's so important. It's absolutely a game of
blocking and tackle. We can draw whatever we want on
the board, we can make it look as fancy as
you want.

Speaker 9 (01:30:50):
At the end of the day, it is going to
end up in a one on one matchup where we
talk about, you know.

Speaker 10 (01:30:55):
Kee Higgins able to win those on offense and then
in space, can you make a tackle? That was a
struggle over the first few weeks and even just watching it.
You know, we've talked a few times about does the
Bengals defense look slow?

Speaker 9 (01:31:06):
They did feel maybe just a touch faster in this game.

Speaker 10 (01:31:10):
Maybe playing a little bit more confident, just having guys
kind of meshing together, and you know you're gonna look,
I think better overall when you play the Giants offense.
But if you can just continue to lower that mistackle percentage,
it makes the offenses life harder. When an offense then
you know, they start to get antsy, they want to
push the ball down the field, and you're able to
stop those deep throws the way that the Bengals were
able to in this game.

Speaker 9 (01:31:30):
You know, now we're starting to talk about a good unit.

Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
Sean Zayan is with his Sumer Sports Monday Morning mash
up in the Stats and Schemes podcast. Uh, it was
not a great night for the Bengals offensively. How much
of that was a function of what New York was doing?
And did New York do things that if you're any
of the defenses the Bengals are going to play subsequent
in that game on Sunday night, you can grab from Yes.

Speaker 10 (01:31:56):
I thought that the Giants has made a comparted effort
to making sure two defensive backs for over Jamar Chase,
whether that's playing man coverage and having the safety also
really playing kind of an inside man coverage, or just
having like kind of a zone cornerback in Chase's face
and a safety over the top. So they really said, hey,
go ahead and beat us with Key Higgins. And I

(01:32:16):
think that Burrow did a good job of finding Higgins
as well as the offense moving Chase around.

Speaker 9 (01:32:21):
And you know, I do feel like if you're comfortable doing.

Speaker 10 (01:32:25):
That on the defensive side, where the Giants played a
ton of light boxes, only six guys and really daring.

Speaker 9 (01:32:30):
The Bengals to run the ball or throw away from Chase,
I feel like that's a good approach on defense.

Speaker 10 (01:32:36):
I do think, you know, not every defense is gonna
have one of the best defensive tackles in the entire league,
so I feel like that will be something just interesting
and monitor. But overall, I thought it was a good
plan by the Giants. And then you start to see
Burrow react to that with just more quick passes, where
he was twelve or twelve on quick passes in this game.

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
You watch with a critical lie me watching in real time,
it just it felt to me like Joe kind of
uncharacteristically held the ball a little bit too long. He
even talked after the game about having some happy feet.
How much of the pressure the Giants were able to
put on him. Was a function of that when you
watched it critically, Yeah, I.

Speaker 10 (01:33:17):
Do think that, you know, I think he's being honest
in that, and you can see that on film when
he was extending plays, you know, he certainly wasn't as
successfully he was seven for sixteen on those plays that
extended a little bit further. And I mean the Giants
were able to create pressure with Dizzo Zallai, they were
able to create pressure with Dexter Lawrence. I think that
that is tying together the situation where the Bengals want

(01:33:39):
to throw to de Marchase, but the Giants have two
defenders over him, and then you're also kind of getting
some pressure in your last particularly from the inside.

Speaker 9 (01:33:47):
I do you think all that ties together.

Speaker 10 (01:33:48):
But we've seen enough from from Burrow I think to
feel fine with an overall, I do think, you know,
on the outside.

Speaker 9 (01:33:54):
On the tackles to get both tackles get beat once.

Speaker 10 (01:33:56):
I think Nims was, you know, the time he got beat,
it seemed like he was kind off on the snap count.
So overall, I think, you know, decent showings from there,
but still a situation where now you go against the
Browns where Dalvin Thompson just had a good game and
you're gonna see Miles Garrett line up inside and just
team should find different ways to line up and try
and you know, create stunts and mess with the Bengals

(01:34:17):
offensive line to Forthborough.

Speaker 9 (01:34:19):
To kind of have to pack the ball a few times.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
You you mentioned the Browns Deshaun Watson. It just it
hasn't worked. And I could recite for you any number
of stats that will illustrate why it hasn't worked. H
to the extent that you've watched him and that team critically,
give me an idea of why it just it is
so historically bad this season.

Speaker 10 (01:34:40):
Yeah, it's it feels like it's a little bit of everything.
Like it seems like he's just you know, not playing
position well at so many levels, whether it's how he's
seeing the defense, you know, how he's deciding to make throws.
I mean, he's holding the ball onto the ball a
little bit too long at times, just based on the concept.
At the same time, you know, they don't have the
most fired offense.

Speaker 9 (01:34:59):
Of course, just traded away. Amari Cooper sent out.

Speaker 10 (01:35:02):
All right, you're going to Jerry Judy as your bet
kind of target. I do think think trub might be
coming back this week, So that might be a situation
where you know, the Bengals, We're gonna have to continue
to tackle really really well, but this overall and offensive
unit that is largely non threatening, and so if the
Bengals have to face that two times in a row,
you know you can't choose the schedule.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
Right, Yeah, no question. All right, we'll talk to you
next Tuesday. Good stuff as always, Man, thanks.

Speaker 9 (01:35:28):
So much, appreciate it about tucktion, You got it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
Sean Saya, the Monday morning mashup column for sumer sports
dot Com and the Stats and Scheme podcast is a
must listen.

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
Go find him and follow him on x at say
ed Schemes.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
UH.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
One of the better books about a Cincinnati sports figure
is written by Bill Cook. I read it this weekend,
Unfinished Painting. It is about, for my money, the greatest
what if in the history of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:35:56):
Greg Cook. We'll chat with Bill Cook next on ESPN.

Speaker 1 (01:36:01):
You've been listening to Football in the Natti on the
official home of the Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Six Away from six o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
I am broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wing's Harper's Point. I
mentioned this earlier that I read this book last week
and if Bill Cook writes it, I read it. Bill
covered Cincinnati sports for years for both The Inquirer and

(01:36:32):
The Post before he retired for Go Bearcats dot.

Speaker 4 (01:36:36):
Com and has written a whole series.

Speaker 3 (01:36:39):
Of books on a bunch of different topics during his career,
but since he ended his newspaper career, and his latest
was terrific, is terrific, and I wanted to spend some
time with Bill talking about it. It's about Greg Cook,
the Bearcat legend. And I say this with all due
respect the Bengals. What if Greg passed away twelve years ago.

(01:37:02):
He is somebody that I never had a chance to meet,
but I've always I've always gotten a kick out of
talking with people who were around Greg Cook, watched him play,
in some cases, played with him, and so I was
really excited to read Bill's book about Greg's life, his
time as a Bearcat, his time as a Bengal, his
time trying to return to the Bengals, and in many

(01:37:27):
respects and many of them sad what life was like
for him once football was no longer something he could do.
The name of the book is unfinished, painting the untold
story of Bengals phenom Greg Cook, Bill is with us.
First of all, thank you for your flexibility with time.
It's good to have you. What's going on.

Speaker 7 (01:37:46):
Well, thanks for having me on MO. Flexibility is no
big deal. I'm retired, that's no problem.

Speaker 3 (01:37:53):
I appreciate you moving some stuff around for us. Is
Greg Cook the biggest what if in Bengal's history?

Speaker 7 (01:38:00):
I don't think there's any question about that.

Speaker 8 (01:38:02):
I mean, even Mike Brown.

Speaker 7 (01:38:04):
He's not exactly known for making Outlanda's statements, told me
that if Greg hadn't gotten hurt, the Bengals would have
been the team of the seventies instead of the Steelers. So,
you know, he was so talented. Everybody I talked to
who played with him or saw him play in his prime, well,
they're no greater authority on quarterbacks and Bill Walsh and
he said he was the greatest talent to ever play

(01:38:25):
the physician.

Speaker 3 (01:38:27):
Yeah, and there's a lot of there's a lot to
that in what you wrote. You obviously, you know you
covered sports in this town. But I think most closely
the University of Cincinnati. What about Greg as a Bearcat?
Did you not know going in that you knew coming out?

Speaker 7 (01:38:44):
Well? I met Greg. I had dinner with Greg once
just as an aside, when he tried to get into
a broadcasting career and he did color commentary on He
was like Jim Kelly junior for a couple of years,
and I remember on a UC football road trip having
dinner with him and a few other people. That's the
only time I ever met him. But what I didn't
know is he wasn't much of a star when he

(01:39:07):
until his senior year. He didn't start until his junior year,
and he wasn't out of that great. He wasn't bad,
but he was nothing special. And then Bengals or the
UC coach at the time head coach was Holm of Rice.
He later became the Bengals head coach, and he pulled
Greg aside after the season and said, if you want
to play in the NFL, you need to step it
up to vote this summer to getting better and because

(01:39:29):
you've got the talent. And so that's what he did
every day with his two favorite receivers, Tom Rossin Jim O'Brien,
and when he came back out his senior year, he
led the nation in passing and total offense and was
a first round draft picker.

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
And this is more of a comment than it is
a question like put up numbers. You know, his all
time record for passing yards in the game made it
through twenty fifteen, when it was when it was, it
was broken. And then you would go back and look
at Greg's number, a bearcat. They looked like numbers that
you would associate with twenty first century football, not college

(01:40:06):
football played in the nineteen sixties.

Speaker 7 (01:40:09):
Well, yeah, they only played ten games back then, for
one thing, and they didn't throw the ball the way
they do now. I mean they would, they would rarely
throw it twenty times a game. But Homer Rice was
smart enough to know what he had in Greg, and
he pretty much cut him loose, and he just had
he did have two great receivers. Jim O'Brien became, as
you know, famous for kicking the game winning field goal

(01:40:32):
in being with Super Bowl five, and he said he
also kicked the game winning field goal to beat Miami
and Greg's last game when Greig rallied him from behind
in the fourth quarter, Brian kicked the field goal to
win the game, and he said his field goal to
beat Miami is just as important to him as a
field goal that he won the Super Bowl with. But yeah,
Greg was he was an anomaly for his time. He

(01:40:54):
was He could throw the ball ninety yards downfield. He
was big and strong. Here's a there's a picture those
old days where he used to take post pictures for football,
for promotional things. And there's a picture of him with
his center and he's doesn't have a helmet on or anything,
but and he's taking the staff from the center. He
looks just as big as the center. He was six
' four, like two twenty. He could run like a deer,

(01:41:18):
and he had such a powerful arm, and he rarely
ever looked to just if he couldn't find somebody open,
or if he was under pressure, he wouldn't just drop
the ball off. He would scramble, but he would always
keep his eyes downfield. He always wanted to make the
big play. And when he played for the Bengals, a
lot of times his big plays with pob Trump.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
Greg Bill Cook is with us to talk about his
book about Greg Cook, Unfinished Painting the untold story of
Bengals phenom Greg Cook. You talked to a lot of
people for this who had spent time with Greg, had
played with Greg, had witnessed his greatness on the football field,
had witnessed his struggles when he suffered the injury that

(01:41:57):
derailed his career.

Speaker 4 (01:41:58):
Who did you enjoy talking with.

Speaker 7 (01:41:59):
Most Well, Bob Trump, He was a big help to me.
Mike Reid was amazing. And I remember when I got
done interviewing Mike Reid on the phone, I went to
my wife and I said, I've been interviewing athletes for
forty some years and I've never had an interview like that.
He was just so intelligent, so perceptive. I just I

(01:42:21):
was just stunn by it. And the court Mike Brown
was very good, he was very cooperative. I didn't realize
that Mike Brown was a very close personal friend of Gregg's.
And he told me that even today he still feels
and avoid in his life because Greg's not around anymore.
So those are probably the top three interviews. But you know,
Ken Anderson told me that if Greg Cook hadn't gotten hurt,
he probably would be teaching high school in Patavia, Illinois,

(01:42:44):
because the reason Paul Brown drafted Ken because he didn't
know if Greg was going to come back that year,
and he had to do something to, you know, make
sure he had a quarterback, so he drafted Kenny Anderson.
That's how he got here. And then when Kenny got here,
Bill Walsh like broke him down and building back ups
up by step and essentially made him the great quarterback
that they thought great Cook.

Speaker 3 (01:43:03):
Was you cover Greg post football when he was no
longer able to play.

Speaker 4 (01:43:11):
And in my experiences and.

Speaker 3 (01:43:13):
Yours are are larger in number than mine, whenever I've
been around anybody who knew Greg Cook, there was always
this instant sadness when they would talk about him. And
I think you'd do a good job in the book
of kind of covering why it was that your experience
in talking with everybody that there was this just sadness

(01:43:35):
in talking about why things maybe ended up for Greg.

Speaker 4 (01:43:38):
The way they did.

Speaker 7 (01:43:39):
Yeah. Absolutely. Greg was, as you may know, as a
talented artist, and he sold a lot of his works
around town, but he was never able to let part
take the place that football had held in his life.
Because football meant so much to him and so many
of his friends. He was very popular. He had a
very outgoing personality, and people who knew him well loved

(01:43:59):
him and they tried to help him. Mike Brown tried
to help him in many different ways, financially in other ways,
but Greg just for some reason he couldn't accept it
and maybe he was too proud, whatever, but he often
was homeless and he lived in someone's storage unit for
a while. He would he would move in with friends
for a few weeks, and then he would leave early

(01:44:21):
in the morning and come back late at night because
he didn't want to be a bother to anybody. And yeah,
it's a very sad story. I mean, if you're looking
for an uplifting story, this isn't it, right, But it's
just it's just it's so sad, not only because of
what happened to Greg, but what happened to the Bengals
franchise and what they could have been. He was. He
was their first round drift pick just the second year

(01:44:42):
of the franchise's existence. In his first three games they played,
they were three and zero. He got hurt in the third.

Speaker 8 (01:44:48):
Game against the Chiefs.

Speaker 7 (01:44:50):
They still won that game, but then he missed a
couple of games and they started they started to lose,
Sam Witch was took over for him, or he got hurt,
so they ended up with a losing record that year.
But Greg still ended up the AFL Rookie of the
Year Offensive Rookie of the Year. So think about that.
He played most of the season with a sore shoulder
and he couldn't throw the way he used to throw,

(01:45:12):
and he still was AFC Offensive Rookie of the Year.

Speaker 3 (01:45:17):
Yeah, it's incredible, unfinished painting the untold story of Bengal's
phenom Greg Cook, the author of the book Bill Cook.

Speaker 4 (01:45:26):
Where can folks find it?

Speaker 7 (01:45:29):
You can get it on Amazon of course starting Saturday,
hopefully it will be at Jesseph Beeth. You can go
to an email address we have set up. It's Bkocchbooks
at gmail dot com and a Facebook page Bill Cookbooks.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
Bill Cookbooks, of which there are many in growing volume.
And it's always good to have you on when you
write one, and I look forward to what's next. This
is really good As somebody who did not grow up
watching Greg Cook and who did not know a ton
about him. It might not be the most uplifting thing,
I'll grant you that, but the stories are still really good,

(01:46:04):
really interesting, and in many cases still a lot of fun.
I appreciate the time. He's always Bill, thanks so much.

Speaker 8 (01:46:11):
All right, well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
That's our guy, Bill Cook, the legendary Cincinnati sports writer
unfinished painting the untold story of Bengals phenom Greg Cook.

Speaker 4 (01:46:19):
If you're a Bengals fan.

Speaker 3 (01:46:21):
If you're a UC fan, if you're just a Cincinnati
sports fan, this is a terrific read. It is a
sixteen away from six o'clock. We're a Buffalo Wild Wings
Harper's point on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati.

Speaker 4 (01:46:33):
Sports station, Need inspiration Shop.

Speaker 3 (01:46:37):
Hang on because I have to get you the time
nine away from six ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:46:43):
You wouldn't not know what time it was if the
guy in the radio didn't give it. We're a Buffalo
Wild Wings Harper's point.

Speaker 3 (01:46:48):
By the way, next Tuesday will be the Middletown location
hike in a Middletown up by seventy five.

Speaker 4 (01:46:54):
We are looking forward to that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
I not spend a lot of time in my life
in Middletown, so I might make a day of it
next two day and just spent three hours of Buffalo
Wild Wings. But really just enjoying myself in the Greater
Middletown area throughout the late morning and early afternoon and
perhaps evening as well. For now, we're here at the
Harper's Point b Dubs. I want to thank the staff here.
Let's run through a couple of things you may have

(01:47:15):
missed thanks to Kelsey Chevrolet Home of lifetime powertrain protection
and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life,
kelsey chef dot com. Bengals Brown's on Sunday. Amari Cooper's
not going to play in that game because the Browns
traded him to the Bills. The Bengals Eagles game, which
is Cincinnati's next home game a week from Sunday, the

(01:47:37):
twenty seventh, the White Bengal game has been moved to
a one o'clock kickoff.

Speaker 4 (01:47:42):
It was a four to twenty five kickoff.

Speaker 3 (01:47:44):
From what I understand, this game will now reach a
larger portion of the country than had it been at
four twenty five, so keep that in mind. Bengals Eagles
will be a one o'clock kickoff. The Scott Sadderfield Radio
Show is tonight at eight o'clock.

Speaker 4 (01:47:59):
That airs on seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
I promised we were gonna play some Scott Sanderfield audio
and then we have run out of time. But the
good news is he'll be on his radio show tonight,
so you could listen to one of Scott Saderfield talking
with Dan Horden Jim Kelly on top of the other guests.
Usually there's some players, maybe an assistant coach, and so
you have that. Maybe we'll play some Scott Sanderfield audio tomorrow.

(01:48:25):
Who knows, it's still gonna be He's gonna be talking
about the same stuff. The game coming up on Saturday,
U see hosting Arizona State Alcs Tonight Game two in
New York Yankees and the Guardians New York winning game
won last night Hockey Tonight on Fox Sports thirteen sixty.
It's the home opener of the for the Columbus Blue

(01:48:47):
Jackets as they host Florida, and it's gonna be an
emotional scene tonight, the first home game regular season home
game Columbus will have played in the just tragic in
the wake of the trade circumstances that killed Johnny and
Matthew control. I saw the Jackets had their dad at

(01:49:08):
their morning skate yesterday, so that's going to be an
emotional scene tonight. You can hear that game on.

Speaker 4 (01:49:14):
Fox Sports thirteen sixty. We are done.

Speaker 3 (01:49:16):
Thanks to Rodney Simpson for producing on site, and thanks
to Tarren Bland for producing Back and Ken. Thanks to
the staff here at Buffalo Wild Wings, and we'll be
in Middletown next week. Back in studio tomorrow at three
h five. Have a great night, Thank you for listening.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati sports station

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