10/28/24 - The Tony & Mo Football Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:24):
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Speaker 2 (00:40):
Tony and Mo Football Show, Twin Peaks in Westchester. Zach
Taylor talking live right now to members of the Assemble
Pro Football Media.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, we've done all that, you know. It's those are
things that we've always factored in and hydration, all the
things that you can think of to help him, and
he has done that as well, you know, I think.
So it's just unfortunate that it happened, especially in practice
on Friday. But again, he's he's going through the rehab

(01:09):
process and trying to do everything you can to get
on the field and help us.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
I think the difference that you've seen in just what
you guys were were not able to do offensively without
team stuff that you just like missing that extra.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Album and you know, I mean, yeah, he's a premier
player in this league. I felt like other guys were
stepping up, and we felt, you know, the first halfway
three possessions, we felt like we got in scoring range
on all of them, and then the second half came
out the fourth possession and did it and then got
derailed on the fourth and one, and then two plays
later the ball got tipped and picked. So there wasn't

(01:43):
a lot where we felt like, man, we're just not
having any progress here offensively. Really, I thought the guys
stepped up to that. Mike Gesicki stepped up and made
some really big time catches, and I thought the backs
did a nice job and some of the checkdowns getting
some positive yardage.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
And so Jermaine made.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
A great place on the go route, you know, and
stepped up, and so there's there's more that he can
continue to do as well to help us. We always
love to have tea out there because he makes a
lot of big plays for us. But I think we're
starting to see other guys step up as well, and
we've got a comfort level on them.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
What happened to when I believe it was Jermaine came
out of the field quiet, can Joe wanted to.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Go Yeah, So Joe, Joe could see that they were subbing,
and so he wanted to get on the ball and
trap him. And with twelve guys on the field, I
had already started calling the next play in the personnel,
and so we were subbing based on what I was saying.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
And so it's just too you can't communicate.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Joe can't communicate to me on what he's trying to do,
and so he it was just unfortunate he'd caught him
subbing as we were subbing. He didn't see that we
had already put someone on the field. And so the
officials did the right thing. And they have to as
soon as as soon as a single player on our
sideline steps on the field, they have to hold it
whether we sub or not, and so they made the
right call. I thought overall this officials do a great job.

(02:54):
They were they were some of the best communicators I've
ever dealt with, and they made the right decision there.
And I could see his frustrat because he couldn't see
Jermaine coming out. There wasn't Jermaine's fault, it was we
were calling them. It was really nobody's fault. It just
was unfortunate that it caught that way.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Do you expect burn who did see more playing time?

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yesterday's snap count is the way up?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, continue to fight roles for him. I thought he
did a nice job on some of the things where
he got the ball directed towards him, and some that
didn't even that were completions elsewhere, and so continue to
find ways to progress him along.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
It was a good thing.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
What didn't happen on the third and one?

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Was it that you didn't feel like the offensive line
guide enough the push?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Was it Zach Moss not making the right for me?

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Like? Why did that not work?

Speaker 3 (03:37):
The third one run we had? I think there's a
lot of things that could have been done better. You know,
I think the whole thing together could have been better.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
What what's your do you have regret over the fourth
and one? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Call you mentioned that yesterday and what did you feel
like stand out clost to you about why he didn't lack.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, I think on fourth and one for the primary
read to be thrown behind the last scrimmage and that's
where the ball should have gone with the point call,
that's not the best answer we can give our guys,
and so that's that's one hundred percent on me. Got
to give us a better answer. I like the decision
to go for it. I think that point in the
game we needed to go for it and be aggressive
in the moment. There's got to be a better call
there that I can get us to and so, yeah,

(04:15):
one hundred percent on me.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
Andre Was has been done really well in the scramble drills,
reds and that type of thing.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
What's the next step for him to be more involved
in the offense?

Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
I think sometimes just the way it plays out, the
ball doesn't come that way, and he had the target
yesterday on the coral route. I just got to come
up with that. But I don't think there's anything where
it's it's on purpose, where the ball is not going
his directions. Just the way that the play is playing out,
and that's just part of it.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
There's Giseki had several weeks where there was limited targets
and then all of a sudden this game there was
there was a multiude of targets for him, and he
took advantage of it. And so I think that could
be the same for Andre. All of a sudden, for Andre,
that same situation could pop up to where he gets
eight to ten targets and has a lot of opportunities.
And so again he just continues to progress for us.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
He explodes it for Eric All is that play specifically
for him or could that have been anybody.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
In that situation?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
He's run it twice now he got the same thing
as Kansas City, so he those are the two times
we've we've run that play this season. So he's been
the guy in on that play both times. But I
feel comfortable with other tight ends had done it, but
he's just the one that's been in there when we've
done it twice.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
That makes you feel like the defense can be fixable.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
At this point, I think we've got the right guys
in there that understand we got to play better, we
got to find a way to get off the field
and get some stops, and I think we're committed to that.
There's ore the guys that continue to find roles that
we'll find different ways to utilize them to see if
they can create sparks as well. But I think we've
seen that the last two weeks against Cleveland and New York.

(05:50):
They gave us winning performances and allow us to win
the game. And this week wasn't good enough by any
any group on our team. And so this week against
the Raiders, big challenge and opportunity to show us what
we've been seeing from them in these past weeks.

Speaker 6 (06:03):
I would evaluate and shelon Rankins halfway through their time.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Game, why, I think you just got to look at
each unit and our unit. We need more from those units,
and so I'm not drilling down on.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Any one player.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
I think as a unit, we got to continue to
play better.

Speaker 6 (06:18):
Surprising not getting a production you would like as consistency
given that one of these guys on second deals, they're
their high draft pace, They're surprise you're not getting maybe
the consistency.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Like I think, you know, given where we're at in
the season three and five, we got to get more
out of ever been on our team.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Coaches and players.

Speaker 6 (06:36):
What you're doing is development, specifically the young guys on defense,
What kind of need to happen for that young way
to show.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Some more consistency.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
They're getting a lot more comfortable in the scheme and
just how the game is can come to them, the
different styles of players and offenses they're going to face,
and so I think every rep they're getting, they're going
to continue to improve. And again, what right now, we're
count on everybody that walks on the field to be
a playmaker for us, and so again I just continue
to see improvement from these young guys. We're playing a

(07:04):
lot of them. You know, I don't know ten to
eleven rookies that are out there right now, and they're
not there for a reason, not because we're just trying
to develop. Rookies were out it because we feel like
they've earned the opportunity and and you know, so I
think that's that's the right move and they'll continue to
play for us.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Given what you spent draft wise on Miles Murphy, is
it concerning that at this point in his career, I mean.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Obviously, I mean this time with the injury.

Speaker 5 (07:28):
Yeah, this is the second year that you guys aren't
getting the impactful type of.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
Production you need from them.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
I think that's part of it is missing four games
this season, you know, getting hurt against the Colts and
so missing the tail and a train of camp, missing
four weeks, and so that's a lot. I mean, that's
six weeks of work there leading into the season. And
so I continue to to know that we'll continue to
see more from Miles and he'll have some plays that's
going to make for us that are going to come
up in big moments.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's a true dead one coming out next week. Is
there any moves that you feel like, are you guys
at this point?

Speaker 4 (07:58):
No, I mean not.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
The team that we've got is the team. We're going
to continue to coach and believe in these guys and
always let Doke in the front office deal with that stuff.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
Last couple of games, last couple of games that Ques
said that you've been very very close to breaking big runs.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah, block here, blocked.

Speaker 5 (08:14):
They are almost huge, huge runs. Do you feel that
that was the case yesterday?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
There was a few not enough, And again it's I
can't sit up here and just continue to say there's
there's one one guy off on each point. We got
to get all eleven on the same page to get
more productivity. There, and I gotta call more, you know,
give us more opportunity as well. So there's there's again,
players and coaches were all involved in that thing and
getting that thing into a better place than it is

(08:40):
after this week.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
Going back to the trade on line, what do you
think are the pros and cons? And we've seen teams
make moves across the board, you know in the season,
what are the frozen.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
Cons that makes?

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (08:50):
I mean you'd have to ask the teams that have
done that, you know. I again, if something comes on
my radar, I'll research it, but otherwise I just focus on.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
This communications getting there. It's it's strong showing her out
of the gate, obsolutely get bond back. Do you feel
like there was a step back there potentially? Yes?

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Uh, you know there it wasn't always perfect yesterday. There
was moments I can think of two or three where
we got to do a better job, whether it's communication
or just one man doing the job he's supposed to
do and would present and prevent some of those bigger
plaints that we had.

Speaker 6 (09:25):
How did at that point that someone who's talked about
is getting what you do a practice.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Into the games.

Speaker 6 (09:29):
How do you kind of make that job from getting
what you're getting in preps consistently in the game through.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
We've seen that happen over our time here. Again, it's
just I think as a team, we come out of
that game thinking this is a game we needed to play.
All three phases need to be tied together. And in
the second half my message to them just now was
it just it wasn't enough, And those key moments they
were at their best and we weren't, and so you
just got to look collectively, you know. It's it's we

(09:57):
always we always practice hard. We're on all the details,
we're making all the correction So I'm not going to
say that there's something we're going to reinvent there that's
going to change everything. But we got a lot to
play for right in front of us with the Raiders,
they're in a very similar positions. We are feeling the
same way we are. So we've got to pick ourselves
up and find a way to go to good Win
this Sunday.

Speaker 6 (10:16):
Challenges that Movers maybe facing this year.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
That are are that he hasn't had to deal with
our encounter in the pass.

Speaker 6 (10:21):
We they about other as well, house the environment for
him and to be able to be successful a different
than nature's past.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, I think the challenge is to the whole team.
We haven't gotten the wins that we've anticipated getting that
we've been working towards, and internally that can be frustrating,
but we can't allow us to us to feel that.
You know, we got to the NFL. It is a
very fair league. We haven't played half our games yet,
and so our focus right now is just, man, how
do we have a tremendous week get ourselves back on track,

(10:49):
because when you get that win, that feeling changes everything
the next week, and so just excited to get our
guys back on the field, get a chance to put
this one behind us, kind to win this weekend and
get back on that winning track and start to build
most of them in them.

Speaker 5 (11:04):
With a quarterback and the targets that he has, what
do you need from your running game?

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Sorry, I didn't quite understand that at first. It was
a curve ball the way you said that. I was
starting to think of how many passes he had had
thrown to him. You understand what I'm getting at? Yeah,
great attack? What do you need so in the obviously
we want explosives that can really jump start to drive.
There's some times you're gonna wear them out with a
three and four yard run that's going to present something bigger.

(11:32):
There's been times where a two or three yard run
has opened up something in the past game off of
that same look. And so it's not always what presents
the naked eye in terms of the effectiveness of it,
because there's a lot of things that we use to
play off of that that helps us in the past game.
We put a lot on Joe's point in the past game.
So sometimes just being able to hand the ball off
for an effective gain gives him a little bit of

(11:53):
a breather to set himself up and then go attack
on whatever the next passes that we have. So there's
a lot of reasons to want to be successful in
the run game. Obviously, there is a mentality that when
you get that thing going, that feeds into the energy
of the team and the sidelines and the offense, and
so that's not foreign to us. We know that that's
something that we got to pick up.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Okay, thank you, sir, there you go.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Zach Taylor chatting with the assembled Pro Football media the
day after his team gets beaten by the Philadelphia Eagles
thirty seven to seventeen at the venue originally known as
Paul Brown Stadium. Zach's team falls to three and five.
Tony Pike is with me. His voice is hanging in.
You're hanging all right. We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester,
Tony and Mo Football Show. We're here till six o'clock.

(12:40):
It is the Sports Equinox. It's a loaded sports night.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
It is.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
You've got Monday Night football. You've got Game three of
the World Series. We've got FC Cincinnati in the playoffs tonight,
Game one against New York City FC. NBA is happening,
NHL is happening. Everything is happening. You could watch all
of this and more here at Twin Peaks. We're here
till six. We're gonna get a break in and then
we'll get started on the play. You cannot convince me

(13:07):
wouldn't have worked on fourth and one and third and
one yesterday.

Speaker 7 (13:11):
We have a lot to get to. On ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Cincinnati Sports Station Ccinnati, twenty one minutes after three o'clock.

Speaker 7 (13:19):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
It's the Tony and Football Show, broadcasting from Twin Peaks
in Westchester. We're back at the Florence location next week
and the week after. But for today, get here between
now and six o'clock. You can win a Twin Peaks
gift card. Oh, get a nice cold beer, hang out
and you know, just for what it's worth. Last week
we had a gentleman bring us each bottle of bourbon.

(13:41):
We did, and then I did a show the next
day at a different establishment. Woman brought me a bottle
of bourbon. Really, so I like this trend. I was
kind of hoping yesterday somebody would bring us one. You
didn't understand they didn't want to bring three because Ken
was there. So you know, we really appreciated that generosity.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
Last we could tie this in because Locks of the
Night is not sponsored yet. That's true. So if you
want a stone cold cash Lock of the Night, we
could be persuaded with the bottle of bourbon. We could.
We could each yes, each, Yeah, we don't share.

Speaker 7 (14:13):
We're here until six o'clock.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
All right, Let's get right to the sequence that change
the game, and frankly might be.

Speaker 7 (14:21):
One that we revisit for a while.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Now Bengals are down twenty four to seventeen one twenty
six to go in the third quarter. They've got the
ball at their own thirty nine yard line. They are
not stopping Philadelphia offensively. They call a running play on
third and one, Zach Moss runs for no gain. They
go forward on fourth and one, which I think was
the right decision. Yeah, which mathematics would say, and I
think common sense as well would say is the right decision,

(14:45):
and Joe Burrow throws it short of the sticks.

Speaker 7 (14:48):
Let's start with the decision.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
To go for it. Well, let's start with the third one, okay, Yeah,
because for me, you know, they they run Matt Lee
on the field and then they have to take a
time out. I don't know how you have to take
a time out because there's only a handful of plays
that they could run when Matt Lee's in the game. So,
to me, that starts with poor coaching and not having

(15:10):
the guys ready, because the night before the game, you
sit there in the offensive team meeting and you go
through calls, Hey, the first third and long that we
get to or if we need a third and one
or fourth and one, these are our calls, and you
sit there and you redo them. I've sat in those
meetings and they say any questions. Everybody good with this,
So yes, everyone is obviously good with it. Matt Lee

(15:32):
runs on the field, they have to burn a time out.
You come back on the field after the timeout after
Vic Fangio gets to look like, okay, let's see what
they're gonna do. After Vic Fangio sees that you run
the same exact formation Philly shifts. They get the Bengals
to do exactly what they want, which is going to
what the heart of that Philly defense. They've used multiple

(15:55):
top draft picks on defensive tackles, and you got the
Bengals to play right in your hand by running into
the meat of that defense. And for the Bengals, look
at the grades. Interior zer line is the weakest part
of the Bengals. So your biggest weakness, their biggest strength
was your call on third and one, knowing that you

(16:15):
need to get the ball because if Philly gets you're
not stopping them. That was my first issue. And again
we'll talk about QB sneak. You could very well if
you know you're going for it on fourth down, then
sneak it twice. But that play also creates the availability
Jamar Chase out to the left six yards cushion. How
many times in Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers' career does

(16:37):
the quarterback just take the ball and throw a hitch?
You're telling me that Jamar Chase couldn't just go fall
for a yard. I would take that ten out of
ten times, other than turning around and handing to Zach Moss.
So give me a sneak or fire that ball out there.
They didn't do either.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Quarterback sneaks since the twenty seventeen season, on one yard
to go play could be second in, one could be third,
and one could be fourth and one. Yeah, on one
yard to go plays have been successful more than eighty
five percent of the time.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Man, how do you not run it twice? Yep?

Speaker 7 (17:11):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
At that point, it's the most pivotal point in a game. Yes,
where your boxer against the wall. Already you've yet to
win a home game, yes, and you have to win.
And in the most crucial moment like that, you look
at the play card. Surely you go to your top
third and one call. That's it.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
I'm also getting tush pushed to death.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
On the other side, are the Eagles the only team
that's allowed to employ that right because it seems to
work for them.

Speaker 7 (17:37):
Do the toush push, do the tush push and wink.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Over across the field and nick Siriana and go, gotcha,
we borrowed one from you. Okay, So they go forward
on fourth down again, No issue with that at all.
You can't get mad at Zach Taylor for coaching scared
and then, in a situation where he doesn't coach scare,
at least from the standpoint of making the decision, get
mad at him for going forward defensively. They weren't stopping Philadelphia.

(18:00):
I need touchdowns, I need possession. Agreed, Why are we
throwing short of the sticks? And why are we throwing
short of the sticks when the defender, Cooper dejen is
right there.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
Jamar Chase was better covered on the fourth down. We
threw it to him than he was on the third
down when he didn't get the most right to me. Again,
fourth down, that was the right time to go for it,
because you're not stopping anybody. My issue is the play
scheme and the way it unfolded. For instance, teams run
that motion a lot where you go in half motion

(18:34):
and then you reverse like you're gonna go back and
then you zigzag right back to the.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Flocks helter skelter. But it's supposed to that's how it's
supposed to look.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
You're doing that against Man, which they got to gain leverage.
The problem is they didn't gain the leverage with the motion.
So now it falls with what happens after the snap.
There are two ways to run that. The play you
normally see is an arrow straight to the flat, straight
to the first down. Marker ran a swing, so he
essentially on fourth and one was now five yards short

(19:05):
of the line of scrimmage.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Runs backwards, base runs backwards, and at the.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
End of it. In the NFL, every given game that
you watch against Manda Man, what are teams rubbing a
running pick? Plays rub routes. Right there you have Andre
Yoshivasha in the slot and instead of running at Cooper
de Gene at all, he avoids him, so Cooper de
Gene is allowed to go over top of the route

(19:29):
that Yoshi Vash is running and still have time to
get to Jamar Chase. That is that is the biggest
failure from a scheme and play call, standpoint and execution
that you can find in the NFL. In a fourth
and one.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Setting, And I mean, I love Jamar Chase and who
doesn't and we're all okay with Jamar getting a chance
to make a play but he didn't have a chance
to make one there.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
I mean, if if you watch and it's not the
first time they've throwed the ball short of the line
of scrimmage or the end zone this year in that setting.

Speaker 7 (19:58):
Did it against New England?

Speaker 4 (19:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (20:00):
Right, fourth and two?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think, yeah, they did it against the Panthers got
away with it, right, Yeah, got back by away with
Zach Moss at the end of the first half. Jamar
Chase doesn't have a chance to play to make a
play there. He's he's right there. So that, to me,
that's a sequence that is going to be talked about
and should be talked about for a long time if
this season ends up going where Right now, it feels

(20:22):
like it's.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
And I also wonder what's option B. Let's say it's
played perfectly, you don't have to throw it? Yeah, what's
the other route? Right? Right? Like you don't even think
to look anymore. You you hopelessly throw it out there
when the defender has made a great play on it.
And again, I can't fathom on fourth and one running

(20:43):
a swing route that takes me from one yard to
five yards away from the line the game. So so
I it's terrible. It's it's terrible execution, play design, scheme.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
It's everything.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
It's awful. And again, that's your guy, Joe Burrow. Eighty
five percent or whatever you said as a success rate,
Line up under center and go get it, Go get
the first down.

Speaker 7 (21:05):
But can you explain to me the reluctance to do no,
I have no.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Idea unless you're worried about Joe Borrow getting hurt. Yeah,
but dude, it's it's football, correct, It's it's football. It's
late October, you're three and four, you're losing the game.
I watched over forty year old Tom Brady run that
to perfection, the greatest quarterback sneak QB I have ever seen.
The Philadelphia Eagles have no issue taking Jalen Hurts, who's

(21:29):
making over two hundred million dollars, and putting him in
a sandwich between the guys.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
After yesterday front runner Jalen Hurts of twenty he was.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Awesome, Like, the explanation can't be we think Joe is
gonna get hurt. I'm not asking him to quarterback sneak
when they're up by three touchdowns. I'm not asking him
to quarterback sneak in August. I'm not asking him to
quarterback sneak when they're three and nine in December. I'm
asking him to quarterback sneak with the game and potentially
the season on the line.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
And to your point, it it's the failure on third
that creates the failure on fourth. Right, that play on
fourth down is one of the worst play calls that
you can throw out there. And I don't know why
it's designed that way. I don't know why you would
have a guy and a man beater zigzag motion and
then loop like that play is designed to beat the

(22:23):
defender based on leverage to the first down, and even
if you had the leverage, you lose it by going
on a swing route. It doesn't make sense. But now
here you are in the NFL. From a run standpoint,
they are the lowest pass or run block graded team
in the NFL.

Speaker 7 (22:43):
And on third and.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
One, you hand the ball to Zach Moss into the
weakness of your own line and the strength of their
d line out of a timeout, out of a timeout
with an extra blocker like third down failure. Fourth down
failure goes right into everything we've talked about that this
offense under Zach Taylor disappears every single game. Yes, there

(23:08):
are flashes, but there is zero consistency. Since he's taken
over the job. In this offense and you have an
elite quarterback, and you have an elite wide receiver, and
you have a non competitive offense half the time, there's
no excuse for it.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Uh, it's twenty nine away from four o'clock. We often
hear defensive players specifically referred to as Jags just another guy.
Bengals also have a Jack. Yeah, we'll talk about him
when we come back. We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester.
It's the Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Since ted lines are a service

(23:47):
of a Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime power, trained protection
and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for
life kelseyshev dot Com. Bengals are three and five with
Marvin Lewis in the Las Vegas Raiders coming to Town.

Speaker 7 (23:59):
Vegas.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Lost to Kansas City but covered because the Chiefs can't
cover big numbers. One o'clock Sunday live on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Monday Night Football Tonight, Pittsburgh hosting the New York Giants.
That game is on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Tonight, ESPN
fifteen thirty has FC Cincinnati Soccer Game one, Round one
Eastern Conference Playoffs MLS Cup Playoffs. FC Cincinnati hosting New

(24:22):
York City. Pregame coverage starts as soon as we're done
on ESPN fifteen thirty. These teams have played three times
this year, twice in league play. FC Cincinnati won the
first one. They won the second one in the League's Cup.
They were down two nothing in that game, came back
to win four two, and then most recently suffered a
three to two road loss. Show Hey Otani expected to

(24:43):
play for the Dodgers Game three of the World Series
in the Bronx LA up two games to none. Mark
stops radio show at six on Fox Sports thirteen to sixty.
And the Columbus Blue Jackets, after choking a game away
against Nashville on Saturday, will take on Edmonton tonight. Also,
I just saw this reads with some procedural stuff. Christian
and Carnassi on Strand and Matt McLean reinstated from the

(25:06):
sixty day injured list, and uh Red's da thing Brandon
Leebrandt and Amed.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Rosario and the Miami Heat unveiled one of the worst statues.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I've Oh my god, so our buddy James Rapine, what
is that is the world's biggest Dwayne Wade fan? Yeah,
And I said to him, I texted him this morning
and I go worst execution Bengals on third and one
and fourth and one or the Dwayne Wade sculptor.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Never seen anything like that. It looked nothing like it,
Like there was there's no person. If you took away
the body and just put the head, yeah, that you
would get a thousand people and say, who is this?
A thousand people that know sports, how does And they
wouldn't say that's Dwayne Wade?

Speaker 7 (25:44):
How does?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
How does No one in the organization go dude, Oh yeah, okay, hey,
look man, I know we've got this.

Speaker 7 (25:50):
We can't do that.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
And it was such an iconic moment when he's up
on the score on the scores table. Yeah, and that's
how you depicted it, like I thought. Evan's seated it really,
you know, like there are those videos like I saw
it once with like a I think it was a
David Beckham statute where he was punked and they made
it as bad as possible. And when I first saw
it online yesterday, I thought, this is a joke. Where's

(26:15):
the real one? That was the real one? Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Evan McPherson had a miss yesterday in the first half
and we said this to each other off air. You know,
we could talk about the end of the third quarter,
but a moment where it really felt like the game
started to change.

Speaker 7 (26:35):
Evan misses the fifty four yard kick.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
And we all know what Evan McPherson has meant to
the Bengals, But what is supposed to make him special.

Speaker 7 (26:45):
Is his ability to kick from distance.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Since the beginning of last year, he's ten of eighteen
on kicks from fifty to fifty nine yards in twenty
twenty one, in twenty twenty two, including the playoffs, seventeen
of nineteen ten of eighteen. Isn't good without the ability
to make kicks from long, He's just another kicker. Yep,
that sounds harsh, but it's true. What makes him special,

(27:11):
what makes him a weapon? What makes him a kicker
that could really positively impact play calling case that gets
six million year, Yeah, is a guy who can make
kicks from distance. In the absence of that, he's just
another NFL kicker.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Yes. If not, then you're doing what the San Francisco
forty nine ers have done and just rotate through kickers. Yeah,
and they got Andrews Carlson kicking right now is four
for four. Moody got hurt. Evan McPherson was invested in, Yeah,
six million dollars a year, and right now from a
percentage standpoint, he's second worse than the NFL and field
goal percentage among active kickers. Right and yet at times

(27:48):
Zach Taylor is a play caller, is still calling place
Alah the Ravens game like he is a top three
kicker in the league and he's not. So you have
to adjust now if you're a play caller, because it's
clearly not working with Evan McPherson. And I've seen it
my whole life in sports. There is probably not many

(28:11):
other positions that are emotionally fragile as kickers, and when
things start to go south, that's all you think about.
And that now becomes even more of an issue after
yesterday's miss if he would have lined up again late
in the game from fifty two, would you have felt
good about it?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
No, that Super Bowl run, I thought he'd be good
from sixty money, Mac, that's it, runey Mac print the shirts, Evan,
the check. It's not that right now, and now you're
coaching and play calling has to adjust or else something
else has to adjust. Well, you know again, it sounds harsh,
but it's true. Like NFL kickers make kicks inside of

(28:50):
fifty they all do you allow for the occasional miss.
There's a difference between that kicker and the Justin Tucker types.
And Evan McPherson his first two years was a Justin
Tucker type. Correct, Hey, we can get points here where
other teams can't. Hey, we could do this on third
and long, and if it's fourth and five, we don't

(29:13):
have to be overly aggressive because we could still walk
away with points. We can play for points at the
end of the half where other teams can't. In the
absence of that, the Bengals offense isn't the same and
the kicker himself is just a regular NFL kicker. Evan
McPherson wasn't drafted because he's just a regular NFL kicker,
and he certainly wasn't invested into the degree that he
was because he's just another NFL kicker yep.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
And it's another blemish on a roster overall that has
too many of them.

Speaker 7 (29:40):
I'm gonna eat this hot fudge Sunday.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
Look, I've already like talked myself into it. I'm now
going to have I don't know if that's good or
bad for my voice. I think it can't be bad,
but I'm gonna have one. No one ever said ice
cream is bad for your voice. Yeah, when we come back,
let's talk about the Fred Johnson Revenge game and a
pass rush that looks like it was designed for a
preseason game eighteen away.

Speaker 7 (29:59):
F If Loo's.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Listening, I'm sure he is, I would tune out for
the next segment.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Uh, Lou, please don't tune out for the next segment,
because maybe we'll give you some ideas. Also valid Tony
and Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 7 (30:16):
Now is the time to make your best deal.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Bengals are three and five. That's your answer. Tony and
Mo Football Show, Twin Peaks in Westchester. We are here
until six o'clock. We'll take a look at what happened
yesterday in the AFC North and what may happen tonight
Cleveland and Baltimore playing Pittsburgh in action tonight. We've talked
about special teams Kevin McPherson. We've talked about offensively, specifically

(30:41):
the sequence at the end of the third quarter, third
and one, fourth and one.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
We also on offense and need to spend time today
on Andre Yoshivash.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
It's coming like there's just it's coming. There's too much then,
but yes, the third and fourth and one.

Speaker 7 (30:55):
So I'm a big believer in really good players.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
When they have bad games, I shrugged my shoulders and go,
good player had a bad game. Trey Hendrickson had a
bad game yesterday. Trey Hendrickson is awesome. He's meant a
lot to this franchise. Whether it was Fred Johnson shutting
him down or whatever it was. He's allowed to have
a bad game. But you can have a defense where
if one guy has a bad game, everything else falls apart.
And that's what happened yesterday. No pass rush to speak of.

(31:21):
Osai had the only quarterback hit Hurts was never sacked.
Hill had one hurry, they continually rushed three and didn't
get home. And still Jalen Hurts completed eighty percent of
his passes.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
How this defense is bad, I don't know. I don't
know where else you want to go with it. I
have numbers on the defensive line. You mentioned the hit
by Osai, one hurry by bj Hill. That means Sheldon Ranklins, Rankins,
Miles Murphy, Sam Hubbard, McKinley, Jackson, Milk Cartons, Chris Jenkins,

(31:53):
and Guy Lawrence, Guy Lawrence Guy zero pressures, zero quarterback hits.
So there are the those numbers. Listen to these numbers.
Out of two hundred and fifty five guys that qualify
Mo Sam Hubbard pass rush grade this year two fifty
two out of two to fifty five.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Not good.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Miles Murphy two fifty three out of two fifty four.
That's your first round pick. Wow. So one, I don't
think defensively, their scheme is fantastic, And if their scheme
isn't fantastic, you have to play call better. They they
couldn't dial anything up to get pressure on Jalen Hurts too,
by the way, went into that game missing multiple offensive linemen.

(32:33):
Went into that game. We mentioned yesterday they hadn't scored
in the first quarter all year. They didn't score in
the first quarter yesterday, but you knew they were going
to That was an offense and a team in Philly
that was taking a ton of heat. Jalen Hurts has
been taking a ton of heat, and they looked like
Super Bowl front runners yesterday. Said yesterday on the show
at the Holy Grail, if Jalen Hurts can go into

(32:55):
a game un throw twenty or less, you're going to lose.
He was sixteen to twenty. Are deficiencies all over the
field for the Bengals defense, and one of the most
alarming deficiencies is they have invested from the top down,
Duke Tobin, the winning room, whoever it is. They have
invested high draft picks on guys they have chose to

(33:17):
move on from other guys Jesse Bates, DJ Reader. We
can talk about those guys on offense and Joe Mixon
and others as well, but look at the guys they've
moved on from. Look at who they've tried to replace
him with. Gino Stone's not working, Jordan Battle's not working,
Kame Taylor, BRIT's a guy, Von Bell got bench, Joon
Bell gout benched, DJ Turner. These are all guys. Miles

(33:38):
Murphy was a first round pick. JOSEPHO size a bust,
Chris Jenkins, McKinley Jackson aren't grading out fantastic. So this
is an absolute overall abuse from the top down at
personnel decisions and play calling. And the worst of all
of this Paul Danner Junior today mo verse winning team games.

(34:01):
Teams with the winning record against the Bengals have scored
on sixty three percent of their possessions, worse than the
NFL second worst Philly, who they played yesterday, and on
those drives forty two percent of them and in a touchdown.
So winning teams that are playing the Bengals forty two
percent of the time they take the ball are scoring touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
So that's Kansas City, Yeah, it's Washington, YEP, Baltimore, Philadelphia YEP.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Teams. Staggering teams are scoring sixty three percent of the
time points when they take the ball against the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
The Pittsburgh Steelers number is on touchdowns twelve twelve percent.
That's how bad the defense is. So if the d
line is bad and they can't get after the passer
and they can't stop the run because Philly ran it
yesterday as well, they're terrible in space. It wasn't like
Jalen Hurts was making small window throws. One of the
worst defenses in football last year and one of the

(34:57):
worst defense in football through eight games, serious about winning
a Super Bowl? How is he still your decordinator? When
or else in the NFL would he still be commissioned
as a defensive coordinator.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So if you look at his run in Cincinnati nineteen
bad yep, twenty bad, end of twenty one good, twenty
two really good, twenty three bad, this year bad yep.
The bad years outweigh the good ones.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yes, And if your message to the fan base is
a Super Bowl and you're fielding one of the worst
units in all of football and that side of the ball,
how does that message what you hear equate to what
you're seeing. I know they have secondary coaches, I know
there's D line coaches. Their jobs are still safe. Yea,

(35:50):
with how bad those units are performing the unit as
a whole. Again, if this is years ago and we're
talking about Hey, we just want to compete and make
the playoffs. Okay, but if your goal is a Super Bowl,
how can you continue to employ a defense of coordinator
who is this bad?

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well, and you go back to twenty one and twenty two,
they were better on defense because the Bengals could do
what was easy, throw money at the problem.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Yes, now, now, but are players based on decisions they
were making? Right?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
But I mean you could overpay for DJ Reader because
you had to them because you could, and you could
draft to Jesse Bates and you could throw money at
Trey Hendrickson. They whiff on the Jesse Bates decision, which
is more. It's about more than just letting Jesse exsty Higgins.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Right, Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Drafting and developing has never been more crucial. That starts
with drafting Duke Tobin, but the development of the players
by the defensive staff and then Luann Arumo having to
get the most.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
Out of that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
A group of guys that you can't just throw money
at to get better it. I think he has been
badly exposed. But yesterday, and we have only got a
few seconds here rushing three, there was no inventiveness. It
looked like in August defensive.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
We rush three. You expect to be covered well on
the back end, and they weren't. So in all, if
it's the organization or Duke Tobin's decision on what players
to sign or resign or not resign, then when you
don't do it, don't you have to have faith in
your decordinator that he can out scheme and out coach
with lesser personnel, and they don't. So whose fault is it?

(37:29):
And who someone has to be held accountable for this?
This team?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Someone has to Uh, We'll try to find Andrey Yoshabash
when we come back. It's coming up on four o'clock
on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from
the Twin Peaks, run to you in part by Encore Technolochies.
Visit OnCore Don Tech and Station East Coast subs and Station.
It's all in good taste Honda East Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience,
First State Bank Guilt on Billie Ralph's America and Grill
in Wilmington, Ohio. Just off I seventy one X and

(38:03):
fifty inside the Holiday and at the Roberts Center, and
by your Tri State Chevy Dealers, Chevrolet, the number one
selling brand in Cincinnati for the past eight years. Chevrolet Together,
let's drive on the official home of the Bengal Cincinnatis,
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
It's four minutes after four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty.
It's an hour two of the Tony and Mo Football
Show at Twin Peaks in Westchester, where we I think
we're setting a Twin Peaks record for most Hot Fudge
Sundays sold in the last hour.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Four.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yes, I got one, gentleman right there got one. That
guy way back there got one. Tony has now gotten one.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Yep, you got one. With the brownie though I did.
I figure if I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go all in.
Why'd you go with the cherries on the side, didn't
ask for them on the side? Okay, interesting move, I
very good, But I'm gonna eat them.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
So we recommend a lot of things about Twin Peaks.
At the top of the list, the Hot Fudge Sunday.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
This one sliding off like the Bengals season right here,
sliding off the rails.

Speaker 7 (39:02):
But the thing is, you just got that put in
front of you right when the music you know it's
got to go there for ten minutes.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
So all right, I thought we were just gonna break,
just break, so you could inhale that thing. Get us
on the clock.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
We're here till six o'clock twin Peaks in Westchester, very
close to ice seventy five.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
I could just go missing like the next couple of minutes,
like we're gonna talk about.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Andre Yoshavas there it is over the last five weeks,
which one of his four catches was your favorite?

Speaker 4 (39:27):
The third down against the Giants?

Speaker 7 (39:31):
Okay, that's the last time he caught one.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yeah, because it I think we all felt at that
time if the Giants got the ball back, it wasn't
gonna be good.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
So we were doing the pregame show yesterday and there's
different categories that we have to fill keys to the game.
Every piece is important, and one of them was player spotlight,
and my answer was third pass catcher.

Speaker 7 (39:52):
Now, to be fair, MIKEA.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Sicki had a pretty productive game until he fumbled, But no,
T Higgins, you're looking for somebody else to step in
at Wider's Jermaine Burton did catch another forty one yard pass,
maybe meriting even a longer look.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Ye uh.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
But also what might have something to do with that
is the fact that Andre Yoshabash was targeted three times yesterday.
He hasn't caught a pass since the Giants game.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
There's no separation.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
He's a six round draft choice from Princeton, man, Like,
I hate to sound like that because I root for
dudes like that, but he's a sixth round draft choice
from the IVY League. Yeah, Jermaine Burton, say what you
want about him is a third round draft choice from.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
The SEC YEP played at a high level.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm not saying it should be Jermaine or Andre, but
I guess with Andre we kind of shrug our shoulders,
like I'm rooting for him to do better, and maybe
he will.

Speaker 7 (40:43):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
I'm just not that surprised that a sixth round pick
from an IVY League school isn't the replacement you're looking
for for a guy like t Higgins, which he ain't
gonna be here next year, so somebody's gonna have to
fill that role.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
I'm so surprised. And the more I look back now,
the more it was not realizing how bad the secondary
was because Yoshi watched was having a good camp and
he was just going against bad dudes like Jamar didn't
practice all camp, and I thought Yoshi was going to
take the next step. You know, the point was made
by a gentleman here. Today. The record of the Bengals

(41:16):
without T Higgins in the last couple of years is alarming.
Now they're zering four this year without T Higgins. They
have shown an itability to put points on the board
twenty eight with T Higgins, seventeen points per game without
right where they hit yesterday. You confident that when T
walks that this offense is going to be able to
function with just Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow. No, Okay,

(41:39):
so Austin brought it up today, you will legitimately make
the argument then, with as bad as the defense is,
that if they're drafting fourteen or fifteen, they they gotta
go get a receiver this year, one hundred percent. With
as bad as that defense is, as many holes on
the old line, and as bad as the running game is,
we're back to talking about drafting a wide receivers.

Speaker 7 (42:00):
Yeah, but you've done that before.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
There's a track record of we know we have other issues,
and we're still taking the wide receiver early because they
did that with Jamar t Higgins is the ultimate conundrum
because he's extraordinarily valuable.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
He's also always hurt, correct, and so I understand his
value to the team.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
I think we all do.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
We know what the Bengals look like when he's out there.
We also know over the last two weeks the offense
as a whole hasn't been great.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
How are we getting hurt on a Friday? That's a
great question to walk through them.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
But but again, like that's that speaks to the conundrum, right,
we all understand how valuable he is, and it's highlighted
when he's not available, but unfortunately, too often he's not available.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
Yep. And if he's not gonna be available, what's your answer?
Is the answer just gonna be Zach's gonna outscheme everybody?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
M hm.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Because there are there are coaches in the league that
would take Joe and Jamar and whoever else you put
on the field and they will have success because they
will outscheme anybody. Zach Taylor's not one of those. What
advantage does he give you? Doesn't ask that about every coach?
He does?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
What advantage does he given? But let's talk about the
wide receiver thing here in a second. So last week
you and I were here and we were talking after
a victory about how how can the Bengals sort of
make things easier offensively clear up some traffic. And my
take was take Jermaine Burton and have him line up
five to seven times a game and just tell him
to run straight downfield.

Speaker 7 (43:22):
Ye if nothing else.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
He takes a guy with him and occasionally he'll beat
his man Joe get the ball to him, which happened yesterday.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
So now there was a play yesterday where Jermaine Burton
was lined up and had to tell Jamar Chase he
was in the wrong spot and they switched yes, yes,
so Jamar yeah needed help.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
The guy's been in the offense for years. So hopefully
T is healthy and hopefully he plays against Las Vegas.
I have to find out what I have in Jermaine Burton,
because if I've got something, maybe I don't need to
use a first round pick on a wide receiver. If
I've whiffed, well, then I'm gonna have to because I'm
losing T Higgins. So the casualty here has to be

(44:01):
Andre Yoshabash. Yeah, he's caught four passes in the last
five games. So if we put him on the sideline,
if we deactivate him, what are we out? So I'm
looking for an uptick in production from lower on the
depth chart at wide receiver. I'm looking for someone the
next time T can't play, who can replicate what T does.

(44:22):
Andre Yoshabash can't And I got to figure out can
that be my second wide receiver when I don't have
Tea next year?

Speaker 7 (44:30):
And I don't do that with Jermaine Burton not playing.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
So it's a conundra.

Speaker 7 (44:35):
I don't want to be the Jermaine Burton guy, but
what else you got?

Speaker 4 (44:38):
And it also it speaks back to again watching the
rest of the NFL offenses come easier. Guys are plug
and played a lot more and have success. Yeah, Rashan
Bateman went for over one hundred yards two weeks ago
when Zay Flowers got hurt. Guys are able to plug
and play like we've seen it with the forty nine ers.
You know, God, Marquise Godwin, a good one, has had

(45:00):
big games. When you can kidd it like it happens
across the NFL. It happens everywhere. It's not happening here
So if the scheme doesn't match and the personnel's not there,
then you go back to the conversation we're gonna have
later today as well. At the top of the organization,
who's deciding which players to draft, who's deciding which players

(45:21):
to bring in? How much is this team missing Tyler Boyd?
How much is this team missing Joe Mixon? Well, how
much are they missing leaders that they moved on from.
How much are they missing guys that Joe can just trust?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, and who who's making the decisions about which players
to say goodbye to, which which we're gonna spend some
time on. They're three and five. Three and five is
a good sample size, right. Three and five also puts
you in a position where they have to go seven
and two to finish with ten victories.

Speaker 7 (45:50):
I still believe that's gonna be the buy in.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
Yeah, Joe said they could.

Speaker 7 (45:54):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Did his face say that they could?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
No?

Speaker 4 (45:56):
Because I looked at a guy no, who's face looks
like he's been begalized a little bit. Yep, that was
I know what I gotta say. Mm hmm. I don't
know if I'm believing it right now.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, there, you're he has to say that nobody believes him.
Nobody believes him.

Speaker 7 (46:13):
I hope he's right.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
I hope they can go seven and two. At some
point you have to lean on something besides what the
schedule makers give you. Yeah, so you know there's gonna
be a lot of this. Well, you know, they're eight
point favorites. How they're eight point favorites against anybody, eight
point favorites against the Raiders, and well, you know, I
mean the Chargers down the road, they're I mean, yeah,
let's do that. I'm I'm uninterested.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, let's do that.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
I'm uninterested. I want to know what about this team?
Can I hang my hat on? That's not what the
schedule makers give them? Through eight games, I can't give
you an answer.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
And the problem is, this was supposed to be the window, right,
this was supposed to be the super window where you're
competing against the Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
MO.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
I don't know if you've seen it or not. Mahomes
has been terrible this year. Joe Burrow is leading the
NFL and QBR one team seven and oh one, teams
three and five. They are not we could sit here
and talk about super bowls. Those two organizations are not
on the same stratosphere right now, what did the Chiefs
do today? They went out and shift off a twenty

(47:18):
twenty six six round pick for a guy that's gonna
come impack their team right now. Doesn't pan out, maybe,
but they took a chance. They also just went and
got DeAndre Hopkins last week because that's a team that
is serious about winning a Super Bowl, from the top
of the organization to the coaching staff to the players
on the field. And they don't roster wise dominate head

(47:39):
and shoulders above the Bengals. It's a good roster, but
they're so much better coached, and they're so much better led,
and they have invested in their core Jones, car Loftus,
Kelsey Mahomes, p Check Go's out. Yep. All their other
receivers are out. They're seven and oh yep, they're making moves.

(48:00):
This super Bowl window stuff is done because that's what
we were told. You can look, those teams aren't on
the same level.

Speaker 7 (48:07):
No, it's not close.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
They weren't on the same level as the Philadelphia Eagles,
who I don't think anybody regards as so elite, right.

Speaker 7 (48:14):
I mean, they're good.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
It will probably be a playoff team, but is smarting
from a meltdown last year where they went from ten
to one to getting destroyed in the first round of
the postseason. And you talked about the trade deadline. Man,
we've disgusted for weeks. It's eight days away. Teams are
making moves. Just look in the AFC. Buffalo Bills. Amari
Cooper didn't have a big gin yesterday, but didn't really
need him to. Buffalo Bills said, all right, we need

(48:35):
a wine out. We're gonna go get one. Kansas City
Chiefs with a roster that's good enough to get to
a point where going into last week they were six
and zero. They win again yesterday. They make their second
move in as many weeks, I promise you, despite losing yesterday.
The Baltimore Ravens are looking at what they can do
in season which two years ago, what did they do.
They traded for rocn Smith. YEP, so I did the

(48:58):
tirade last week. Don't tell me again.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
This is just not what they do.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
You cannot look at this team as currently constructed if
you feel like they have a chance. You cannot look
at this team and be opposed to the idea of
them going and getting somebody.

Speaker 7 (49:12):
And if you are, then you want them to sell.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Yep, they have a better chance right now of drafting
in the top ten than making the playoffs. Numbers wise, yes,
Analytics wise, this team has a better chance of drafting
in the top ten than making the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
That thing has a better chance to be turning into
soup than ice cream.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
If I don't know, so, I'll let you enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, it is a quarter araph for four where Twin
Peaks in Westchester enjoying hot fudge Sundays.

Speaker 7 (49:39):
We're here till six o'clock.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
We'll talk about what went down to the AFC North yesterday,
and then the question that I have about Zach Taylor,
I'll pose it to Tony. Coming up this hour on
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station Edy.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Brought to you in bart by Modern Office Methods on
the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Twenty one minutes after four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty, Moeger,
It's the Tony About Football Show at Twin Peaks in Westchester.
We are here until six o'clock. We'll get to some
college football, including the bear Cat loss and Boulder a
little bit later on.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
No Look with hot tea, it's trying to get a
hot drink.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
You are your voice. It has been giving you a
hard time since Friday. You got through the game on Saturday,
you got through yesterday's show, and you're a trooper today.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Friday was tough one because there was this trip to
Colorado that you're looking forward to, and you can't really
go out and enjoy much that you're trying to rest
your voice. Apparently alcohol is not good. Here's the difference
between you and I. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
I would have said blanket, Yeah, I'm gonna go have
fun in Boulder at the peril of what I'm doing professionally,
and you did the right thing.

Speaker 4 (50:51):
Well, then you did the mature thing and stayed in.
But then Saturday comes and there are like former teammates
on the sidelines and their stars are crossed the way,
and it's like you want to have these conversations, you
want to talk to people. You're trying to save your voice.
You know Dan Horde. The legend is, I mean he's
given me eight different concoctions to try. I'm trying them

(51:11):
all and then like the game is so loud that
when you do report. You're gotta yell a little bit right,
and then you cast that into not sleeping, which is
also good for it. You go right into a showed
them all yesterday, But it was Colorado's stunk. Game was cool,
The environment was cool. Yeah, not being able to partake

(51:31):
or you know, Derek Wolfe was there, bones Barnett where
I mean, there was a lot of former players, Kevin
Huber was there, and just not being able to have
that normal conversation.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Well, you still were able to do your job because
you did the right thing on Friday.

Speaker 7 (51:48):
Yeah, I don't know that I would.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Have been sure enough to do that right yet in
the AFC North yesterday, Baltimore lost. They lose that Cleveland
also we're back. It's remarkable. Yeah, this was the thing
immediately after the game, Well, you know the Ravens lost,
and that the Steelers lose, you.

Speaker 7 (52:04):
Know, right back where we started.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
The only thing I took from that game, yeah, is
Browns fans have to be mad that they waited so
long for Jamis.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
That has to be It's it's the most painful win
ever because Jamis Winston wasn't awesome yesterday, but he was
better than anything We had seen from Deshaun Watson.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
Yeah, and it just felt like the team the team
played with some juice.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
I know it is an emotional scene because Jim Donovan
there played by playboys passed away I think on Friday
of last week, and there was a cool scene with
Kevin Stefanski and the team GM taking the ball to
his family, which was neat but yeah, there was a
little bit more punched to that crowd. But if I'm
a Browns fan, and probably if I'm Kevin Stefanski, I'm
going see Yeah, like, if we could have done that

(52:45):
two games ago, maybe we're in this thing instead of
sitting there at two and six.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
Yeah, and again I credit the staff for finding away
with a one win team that had lost five in
a row to rally and beat arguably the hottest team
in football, who was playing better than Baltimore over the
last five weeks, and they won five games in a row.
Not many teams are playing better, right, And you've got
a team that has just taken defeat after defeat after defeat,

(53:12):
and they played their tailoff yesterday and they beat the Ravens.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
And from Baltimore's perspective, first of all, their eighth loss
since the start of the twenty twenty two season where
they've had a lead in the final two minutes of
the game.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Yeah, that's remarkable. Kyle Hamilton dropped the easiest interception you'll
evere and.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Otherwise played a great game. Yeah, they graded out as
their highest graded player. And yet I mean, just in
his bread basket ends the game. And now from their perspective,
there's still I think a smart bet to win.

Speaker 7 (53:39):
The AFC North.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
They virtually have no chance of getting the one seed
because they've lost head to head to Kansas City and
they're now three behind him in the lost column. Like
that's one of those games where you know they're seeding
or if they don't win the division, if you're a
Ravens fan, you look back. Yeah, Pittsburgh plays the New
York Giants tonight. Russell Wilson will make his second star.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Yeah, they'll look like world beaters. They'll move to six
and two.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Well, it's an opportunity for them. You know, Bengals lose,
you could I mean, if if Cincinnati's sitting there at
three and five, say what you want about the Steelers
and they're six and two, I know they play him
twice head to head, the math gets really, really hard.
It's a great opportunity for the Steelers. It felt like
with that win last week, playing Russell Wilson at home
against the Jets, it felt like a lot of skeptics

(54:26):
now kind of believe in them. I'm still mostly skeptical.
Not that they can't win the division, not that they
can't make the postseason super Bowl. I just I don't
include them in the mix that includes Kansas City, Buffalo
or Baltimore.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
Yeah, but the more you see from them, the more
they can change that. One of those teams, the Jets,
Holy moly, oh boy, I mean that's a bad loss.
How about the Lions yesterday?

Speaker 2 (54:50):
How fricking good are the line?

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Jared Goff had eighty five passing yards. Yeah, and they
scored fifty two points. Is there a team in the
NFL that has taken on the person of their coach
more than the Lions? No, Like you can see that, yep,
And like I go up and down the list. Arizona
four and four, good coaching, good play calling, what Kirk

(55:13):
Cousins is doing with Atlanta talking about Jesse Bates forced
the fumble and records an interception yesterday, Texans. I know
you wanted to have the Joe Mixon conversation. Well, yeah,
are you tired? You can take yourself out for a
play if you're tired, like Anthony Richards.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Okay, so Joe Mixon again has a productive game. Yeah,
the Texans who get by and win. Granted, Joe had
to miss some time this year, but when he's been
on the field, he's been productive.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I'll mean the first to admit that when the Bengals
moved on, I was kind of ready because I saw
a guy who was incapable of giving the Bengals explosiveness. Well,
as it turns out, nobody can. The Bengals have not
run the ball effectively the last three games. We were
talking about this with Zack Moss. Zach Moss was good
last year, was pressed into service when Jonathan Taylor got hurt,
but was good last year.

Speaker 7 (56:01):
Now he's not.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Joe Mixon was not great last year, now he is. Well,
what's a common denominator?

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Right? The system?

Speaker 2 (56:07):
All I heard about Joe Mixon, and frankly I believed
it was just not a fit for their system.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
A fit.

Speaker 7 (56:14):
Maybe the problem is the system?

Speaker 4 (56:15):
Who's a fit?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
It was Sakuon Barkley not going to be a fit
for the system if they got him.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
Derek. Remember I said, like Derek Henrier, Like Derek Henry's
not a fit.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Dereck Henry wouldn't be a fit for the What is
the Bengals system?

Speaker 4 (56:24):
You mentioned it last year? Zach Moss graded out really
well last year. Yeah, Zach Moss is last in the
NFL and rushing yards overexpected, right, Joe Mixon, he's been
out a couple of games. Well, he's third in the
NFL and rushing yards per game at one hundred, and
you know what, they're using them more in. I thought
he couldn't. I thought he couldn't catch out of the backfield.

(56:44):
He has been unbelievable for the Houston Texans, who, by
the way, Nico Collins, Deefon Diggs, Tank Dell, Dalton, Schultz,
c J. Stroud. Ye, how's that system? Accommodator runner, It's
it's unbelievable that they can thrive there, and Moss can
thrive an Indy, but they come to Cincinnati and they're
a completely different person. By the way, never have I

(57:07):
seen a quarterback take himself out of a game due
to tiredness. Then I did Anthony Richardson yesterday, craziest thing
I've ever seen are the Broncos.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Good?

Speaker 4 (57:18):
Yes, yeah, I do coaching, good, good coaching. Coaching.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Mentioned what the Chiefs did about the Commanders. How about
the Hail Mary? You talk about bad coaching.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
So on the play before the Hail Mary, the Bears
allow a quick sideline out which right before it unfolded,
say which you one about Tony Romo. He draws up
on the screen and says, hey, here's what they should do.
Instead of heaving it downfield.

Speaker 7 (57:40):
They do it.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
They allow McLaurin to get out of bounds. It sets
up the hail Mary. The Bear's got a guy who's
on the field taunting fans before he fails to knock
the ball down.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
And the fact that that guy was taunting fans is
the play happened. And then he batted the ball in
the air. Yeah, unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
And then Noah Brown catches the touchdown pass. It's one
of the coolest hail mary' I've ever seen.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Yep. Unbelievable. Good job by him of allowing so much
time to get down the field. Yep, they executed it
to perfection command Again, I talk about the commander. We
talked about what the Packers did, talk about the forty
nine ers in their fist string running back. The Chiefs.

Speaker 7 (58:16):
You know what's kind of scary about them.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
They've yet to play a game where Travis or Patrick
Mahomes has been great.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Well, what happened late in the season last year, Travis
Kelcey started to contribute.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
What did he do yesterday? Contributed ninety yards in a touch.
DeAndre Hopkins had some big plays for them.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
He did.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
They're gonna get Isaiah Pacheco back. They just added another
edge rusher today to go alongside of Chris Jones and
George car Loftis, and they gave up a twenty twenty
six six round pick for him. Deadline is next week.
That's a week from tomorrow, so you're actually again you're
allowed to do stuff before the deadline. You can make

(58:53):
your team better because you.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Could crait for a guy this week and he could
play Sunday against the Raiders.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Because what the Kansas City Chiefs did was you got
to receive and then that receiver helped them yesterday. The
Bengals have used help in their edge rushing Yesterday yes, absolutely, yes,
So don't again, do not preach that you're competing for
a super Bowl and this is the super Bowl window
all in when you're not all in, do not preach

(59:19):
to me when you're doing this and you talk about money.
When you failed to get a deal with Jamar Chase,
that price tag's going up. You failed to get a deal,
or you got the deal with Joe Burrow, But that's
not even hitting you yet, Like where is the this
This is such a failure this year because it gets
so much harder next year. And if Jamar Chase keeps

(59:40):
playing at wide receiver one numbers, you're gonna wish you
sign him to that deal this year. You're gonna wish
you gave him what he wanted. The same way. You'll
talk about t Higgins the same way when Jesse Bates
walk he said, maybe you can get him in a
friendly deal, but no, we gotta pay t Higgins. Like
I said it to you off off air. What decisions
have they hit on? What decisions outside of Hendrickson and

(01:00:02):
maybe the drafting of Logan Wilson where it's not Joe
Burrow falling in your lap, Jamar Chase falling in your
lap where they've made a decision and it's panned out
and and helped them a ton well, and and the
Jesse Bates thing. You know, they're still trying to find
a spot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
They're still trying to find a spot. And they would
they would do the whole. Hey, he's the best safety
in the sport. Okay, well then why aren't they paying him?
They don't value safety? And since the was regular season great,
and then since then they've been atrocious in explosive plays.
Gave up one yesterday Devonte Smith. So maybe you should
change what you value. Do you value not giving up

(01:00:37):
explosive plays?

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
Since they've moved on from Bates? How many draft picks
have they wasted? And free agent money have they spent
on that position? Paid Gino Stone, paid Von Bell, drafted
Dax Hill to be a safety rafter Jordan Battle after
Jordan Battle, Keep keep drafting, keep keep paying money when
you had the guy right here. And again it goes
back to the conversation that Kelsey co tweet. You have

(01:01:01):
got to value homegrown players in the NFL and get
the deal done. That's what the Lions have done. Yeah,
the Lions are signing all these good players that they drafted.
They're signing them the long term deals before it gets
to their contract. That's how you do it. And you
create this environment that people want to come play in.
And now again it gets harder with Burrows. Money gets

(01:01:22):
harder with what you're gonna pay Jamar Chase. That's why
this was the window. And you're sitting by with the
window and not trying to get your team better. Who
is drastically bad and instead this was a quote from
Zach Taylor today, we have the right guys in there
on d that know we need to get stops and
get off the field. The right guys are the worse

(01:01:45):
defense in the league. They might know that, but they
don't do it. They're giving up points on sixty three
percent of their drives against teams that are winning in
the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I'm gonna oppose to you the question that I would
ask about Zach Taylor if I were Mike Brown. When
we come back, Tony and Mo Football Show here at
twin Peaks in Westchester, ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Gas, you've been listening to football in Thenetti on the
official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty ESPN
fifteen thirties, Cincinnati's sports station.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Sports Headlines are a service at Kelsey Chevrolet, home of
lifetime power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from their
family to yours for life kelseyshev dot Com. Bengals are
three and five after losing at home yesterday. Since I
is oh and four, how much money would you have
wagered if I would have said A lot of season
Bengals will go oh to four in the first two

(01:02:38):
first four home games to start the season.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
A lot, you know. And the problem with that with yesterday,
in a nutshell is you know, you were in a
must win because of how you started, and you were
also zero and three to start the season at home,
and that's the performance you put out there. Yeah, that's
what's disheartening about the most white Bengal look cool though. Yeah,
the white bangle was cool and for as much as

(01:03:01):
you know, the culture and everything is where it needs
to be. Yeah, that did not look like a team
fighting for their their lives on the football field yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
No, No, defensively looked like a team full of guys
trying to get through the preseason. Monday Night Football Tonight.
Steelers and Giants. You could listen to that on Fox Sports. Yeah,
thirteen sixty FC Cincinnati tonight, Game one against New York
City FC starts at six forty five pregame coverage when
we're done on ESPN fifteen thirty, game one of a

(01:03:29):
best of three series. FC Cincinnati looking to advance for a.

Speaker 7 (01:03:34):
Second consecutive year. Did they advance three years ago? They did?

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Ye?

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
Remember they had a supporter shield last year that visited
the studio. They did, Yes, both of them. If you could,
if you could rank your top three of what events
you would watch in what order tonight? What's your top
just really quick?

Speaker 7 (01:03:53):
They did advance two years ago?

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Yeah, I didn't dotch you uh, Nix Calves, that's your
number one?

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Yeah, okay, Nick Calves. So there's a lot I'll go.
I mean World Series.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
World Series been pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Thing is like the soccer game will be over by
the time the first pitch is thrown in the Bronx, right, yes,
so like that's not head to head. Game one of
the World Series was awesome. Game two of the World
Series was very dramatic. First pitches at eight oh eight.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Yeah, I'll go Steelers Giants sitting up there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
I'm interested, like it's it's not nineteen seventy one, right,
Like I'm not getting off my couch to walk over
to my set top tonvision to flip the die.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
I mean, you know, if it was seventy one, if it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Was nineteen seventy one, it would be Game three the
World six. Shohio Tani, by the way, is in the
lineup tonight for the Dodgers, who lead two games to none.
Mark Tubs showed tonight at six on Fox Sports thirteen
sixty jack its skate against Edmonton. The Columbus has alternated
wins and losses in their first seven games. And congrats
to Chuck Martin.

Speaker 7 (01:05:08):
Congrats to Chuck Martin.

Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
Yes, the cradle of coaches. What did he do? I
believe he came the all time leader and wins.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
City and coaching at Miami forty six to seven over
Central Michigan. RedHawks are now four and four and looking
like a team that I didn't know that I didn't know.
He's the He's been there for a long.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Time, but been there good, Good for Chuck. Shout out
to Chuck Martin.

Speaker 7 (01:05:28):
Absolutely it's time for the sweet life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
HVAC stat of the game brought to you by Sweet
Life Heating and there serving Greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky in
Southeast Indiana, where service always comes with a cherry on top.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
I actually had two Sundays.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Yeah, I actually had two, but one of them I
already gave. Since the start of the twenty seventeen season,
NFL quarterback sneaks with a yard to go have succeeded
eighty five point nine percent of the time.

Speaker 7 (01:05:58):
It is staggering.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
If there was any other play in football that had
that success rate, you would want your team to use
it every single time. Yep, Bengals on third and one
and fourth and one did not. In the second half
of yesterday's game. Here's my other one, the Philadelphia Eagles
averaged point eight two points per play, point eight two.

(01:06:20):
The leader for the twenty twenty four NFL season is
the Detroit Lions at point five four to three. Now, yes,
that's over the course of a half season. Basically, this
is over the course of thirty three plays. That's still
a staggering amount, aided by field position, also aided by
the Eagles getting the ball back in their last possession

(01:06:42):
and being content to kick a field goal. Point eight
two points per play.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
Let me ask you this, Do you want to know mine? Yeah? Sure,
seventy seven percent. That's roughly what ten of thirteen equates two,
which was what the Bengals were on third down yesterday. Yeah,
ten of thirteen and lost punted zero times, lost by twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
You gave me the number. In the three home games, tuh.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
Outside of New England where they New England punted five times.
The next three home games, teams have combined to punt
four times. If you want to make it even worse,
Baltimore punted three times. Washington and Philly combined to punt
once at home against this defense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Okay, Now, can I ask you a question.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
If Zach Taylor were to be let go, do you
believe other teams would push each other out of the
way to hire him to be a head coach? So
I think whenever you make a decision like that in
any business, you ask at what level high school, college, NFL, NFL? Okay,
would one of my competitors make me pay for this right?

(01:07:57):
Would one of my competitors swoop up which their competitors are?
Any one of the other thirty one NFL teams? So
if the answer is no. Why are we clinging to
the idea that Zach's untouchable he deserves to be brought back.

Speaker 7 (01:08:14):
This isn't his faults.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
And like, I'm not into firing people for blame, I'm
not into scapegoating. I'm into having the best possible people
in the positions that I have opened, the best in
the world at what they do. Is Zach Taylor the
best in the world at what he does? No, So
your competitors wouldn't make you pay No if you let

(01:08:37):
him go and we acknowledge he's not the best in
the world at what he does.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
Do you think Luanna Roumo would be a decordinator somewhere
next year?

Speaker 7 (01:08:45):
My guess is no.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
I mean he interviewed for head coaching jobs, didn't get
any uh huh, And.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
I don't know, because it feels like that position could
be you kind of you get second chances, you get
to bounce around like the arn whale types.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Do you think anyone would hire Zach as an O No?
I don't either. And so to me again, if your
message to your fans is we're trying to win a
Super Bowl one, Zach should at least relinquished play calling duties. Two,
I don't know how Louie and or Romo is still
your guy. Yeah, And if it's not lou how is

(01:09:19):
your secondary or d line coach is still getting by?
How is there not any tension on those jobs that
I don't understand?

Speaker 7 (01:09:27):
So I guess this comes back to the.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
I think overarching theme of the season to this point,
which is they've underachieved. If underachievement continues and we get
to the end of the season and they're seven and
ten gone, eight and nine.

Speaker 4 (01:09:48):
Gone in that ballpark, if they miss the playoffs, you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
How how are you going to present yourself to people,
by the way, when you've raised season ticket prices again
and go we're good, we're bringing back these same coaches.
I know they've done it in the past, so I
you know, far be it from me to say that
they wouldn't do it. But failure usually comes with fallout.

(01:10:16):
That doesn't always have to mean people lose their jobs.
But who boy, I think that's gonna be a tough
sell for.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
A lot of people. If you're serious about trying to
win a Super Bowl and you missed the playoffs this year, Nope,
no chance. You can't sell that, And again, I I hate,
don't I go back to the trial. I go back
to who he was when he was at UC for
a year, and I know it was a bad situation.
It wasn't a good offense he is he is helped

(01:10:45):
by the greatness of Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase. He's
not helping them, right like that That's the thing. And again,
there are coaches that could There are coaches out there
that could absolutely get the most out of them. Look
what Cliff Kingberry say, Which want to buy Cliff as
a head coach? He fits as an OC those types
of offense. But no one's gonna come be in OC

(01:11:05):
here and they don't get to play calling duties.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
I just like Matt Everfleus right, yeah, like and not
Matt Lafloor mount everfles Is his own issues. Matt laflor
in Green.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
Bay, YEP. Where Malik Willis can lead touchdown guys, mhm
not not like get in and hold on to a
big lead, right, I have to come from behind and
win a game.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
I asked you this before, Like, what what advantage does
Zach bring? Like? I think like Mike Tomlin brings an
incredible motivational advantage to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Kind of a
shaky game manager, but but like, like I know how
his teams play every year. You might you might hate

(01:11:45):
to hear me say it, but like, there's there's an
advantage there. I think with with Andy Reid, there's a
schematic advantage that that dude won a lot of football
games before Patrick.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Mahomes showed up.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yep, there's a tactical advantage where I feel like the
team coach by him has an edge over the guys
on the other sideline.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Where is the where is the advantage over their competitors
that Zach Taylor brings to the table. I think most
people would have a hard time articulating what it is. Well,
if you can't articulate what advantage you have because of
your head coach, correct me, probably have the wrong head coach.

Speaker 4 (01:12:22):
What I don't understand And I've seen multiple articles about
this today. If you're Zach, like David Bell, is it
David Bell's fault or was it his fault that the
team was banned on the base pass or made bad decisions?
Like sometimes as a manager you're on the hook for
what your team is doing. So is it Zach Taylor's

(01:12:44):
fault that sometimes they don't tackle well, or that the
personnel doesn't match, or that they don't score enough points,
or they can't run or can't stop the run. Scheme wise,
you can say yes. But as a head coach, that's
your role. Your role is to lead over top of
the team, and this team, to me, it disappears in
big moments. Always get off to slow starts, Always get

(01:13:05):
off to the slow starts. They're inconsistent in game with
their play calling. Offense disappears at times. There are too
many things that this team should be doing that they're not,
and Zach Taylor's at the helm of all that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
And I'll say, for us, when Zach has earned credit,
we've given it to him.

Speaker 7 (01:13:24):
I believe he doesn't get nearly the.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
Credit he deserves for the five game run end of
the regular season into the playoffs the twenty twenty one.
I think he deserves credit for getting Jake Browning to
a point where they could still function offensively when Joe
got hurt last year. Like this isn't gratuitous, but like
there are a series of things that point to the
head coach that pile up after a while. They suck

(01:13:49):
at the start of the season every single year offensively,
and he is the play caller. They still go through
these extraordinarily long lulls where they're not very good offensively.
I don't think there's a real great team identity. I
think the culture is probably pretty good. But how much
of that is a reflection of Joe Burrow and some
of the guys they've had on And does.

Speaker 4 (01:14:09):
A culture take a hit when Joe Mixon and Tyler
Boyd or I just a there's a guy. Chris Rowling
put this out there today. He put an article about
the Bengals exhausting the goodwill because remember, Zach made a
Super Bowl in as well. He's gonna be a lifetime
coaching and Chris he brings up like these are things
the fans know. You mentioned it another zero to three start.

(01:14:32):
The play calling erratic. Sometimes they're aggressive to a point
it doesn't make sense, and other times they're conservative to
a point that it doesn't make sense. There are people
that feel he's unqualified for the position based on what
he had done before. He's got a defensive coordinator who's
got the worst defense in the NFL. The front office

(01:14:53):
has failed the staff based on decisions they've drafted and
guys they've moved on from, and what is key in
all of this and we talk about it today. The
bill gets higher, they didn't pay Jamar Chase this year.
They're gonna regret that T Higgins is not going to
be retainable, and Joe Burrow's contract, the teeth of that
are about to start sinking in next year. You better

(01:15:15):
be damn sure you know that you have the right
guy leading, because if not, then we get into the
conversation we had about the Browns last week. You're wasting
prime years of the career of Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase,
years where you should be competing for a Super Bowl,
not the team watching and saying, oh, look what the
Chiefs are doing, Look what the Bills are doing, Look

(01:15:37):
what the Ravens are doing. Look what all these other
teams are doing to get better. You're missing the prime
windows of your team, of your players. And I hate
to say it, Joe Burrows don't walk around every year.
Jamar Chases don't walk around every year. Willie Cunningham said
off air the other day in the hallway. You know,
Ken Anderson goes to the super Bowl and the thought, oh,

(01:15:57):
I'll be back, they'll win another, They'll win a super Bowl.
Boomer get back, say your thing with Burrow, Right, they'll
get back to the super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
I mean, there's there's a lot of there's a lot
of instances like that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:06):
You better be sure you got the guy in place
that can lead and will lead the team to give
him the best chance to win a super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Here's what I would want to know.

Speaker 7 (01:16:16):
Let's say.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Let's say they're on the outside looking in the playoff
start and the response to the organization is we're running
it back.

Speaker 7 (01:16:27):
If you were able to corner Joe Burrow and get
him to speak.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
The truth, yep, what would he say about that.

Speaker 7 (01:16:34):
I'm not going to put words in his mouth and
pretend I know the answer.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
But I would assume he wouldn't be on board with it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
But what I would winning is the most important thing
to winning is the most important thing that Joe Burrow
and quarterbacks are judged by how much they win, not
how much money they make that's great, and not how
many Pro Bowls they go to what they not what
they do statistically, not how many records they said. Statistically,
do you win yep. And it would be maddening to

(01:16:59):
me if I was Joe Burrow, if I watch Patrick
Mahomes win another one this year with that team. All Right,
that's my contemporary. That's the guy that I'm held up against.

Speaker 7 (01:17:10):
He won with that team. And we're doing what Yep,
it is seven away from five o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
We are We're late. I went long for the first
time today. Rest up, police, you got an hour ago,
great Tonian.

Speaker 7 (01:17:22):
I have an hour to rest Tony No Tonyan no
football show.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station. Bengals fans, when you line up Chevy Moro.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Football Show Live from the Twin Peaks, brought to you
in part by Encore Technlochies visit OnCore dot Tech pen Station,
East Coast Subs Penn Station. It's all in good taste
Honda East Cincinnati's Ultimate Hondi Experience, First State Bank Guilt
on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio. Just off
I seventy one X and fifty inside the Holiday and

(01:17:54):
at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri State Chevy
Dealers Chevrolet the number one selling Brandon's Incinnati for the
past eight years. Chevrolet Together, let's drive on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Third Hour, the Final Hour, the Power Hour of the
Tony and Mo Football Show. Excuse me at Twin Peaks
in Westchester. We are here until six o'clock. FC Cincinnati
Soccer coming up at the top of the hours, the
Orange and Blue gets set to take on New York
City in game one of Round one of the MLS
Cup Playoffs. We are here till six o'clock. There's so

(01:18:30):
much happening tonight you could watch it all here at
Twin Peaks. They got ice cold beer. They've got an
awesome stap. By the way, our server, Maddie, Yeah, easily.
Matty's been awesome, the most attentive server we have had
either Twin Peaks location. Matty's been great. We're back in
Florence next week. Maddie has been awesome. I'm gonna see
if nothing against the folks in Florence. Yeah, but if

(01:18:51):
we could transfer Maddie to Florence for the next two Mondays, yeah,
and then she can come back here when we're back
in a few weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
You mentioned ice cold beer, also ice cream. We've each
had a hot fudge Sunday. We dove into ice cream.

Speaker 7 (01:19:04):
That might be my new twin peaks.

Speaker 4 (01:19:05):
Go to you know Willie cutting him his favor is
famous at the office for ice cream Sundays.

Speaker 7 (01:19:10):
I owe him one.

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
He owes me one because his deer Park Wildcats lost again.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
I owe him one because his Colorado Buffaloes beat our Bearcats.

Speaker 4 (01:19:18):
How about his deer Park Wildcats finished four and six?
Made the playoffs? Good for them? What are we doing?
What are we doing?

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
The standards aren't very high. The standards are low in Kentucky.
Everybody makes playoffs even lower. My senior year high school,
Scott went oh and ten. How Scott doing this year
made the playoffs?

Speaker 4 (01:19:37):
Probably not good? If finishes five hundred below. They turned
down playoff.

Speaker 7 (01:19:42):
Our principals and legal Yeah, bigger issues.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
I get it, I get it, moving on, Moving on, man,
Evan McPherson.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
How about that guy, Evan McPherson money mac from inside
fifty yards?

Speaker 7 (01:19:57):
So Bengals lose?

Speaker 4 (01:19:59):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Today? Well, we to the college football later on this hour,
thirty seven to seventeen to the Philadelphia Eagles. A home
game for Cincinnati. They're now oh and four and home
the Raiders come here. We started the show by talking
about the third and one and fourth and one, and
I do want to kind of get back to that
for those who might not have been here for it.
But you know, we talk about the trade deadline and

(01:20:19):
it's coming a week from tomorrow. Zach Taylor was asked
about it today and he essentially said, I'm not gonna
blame him for this answer. Look, I'm putting that on
Duke Tobin because that's that's Duke's area. Okay, so we
don't want to entertain the scenario, but I think we
have to. They're oh and four in home, they've lost
to inferior teams at home. What if they lose to
the Raiders? Again not saying they will, but you have

(01:20:41):
to allow for the possibility. And entering the deadline, they're
three and six.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
And you're not not even to say they will if
they lose as an eight and a half point favorite,
though I wouldn't be surprised. No, that's the set point.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
They're three and five, they've lost to the Patriots, they
got blown out yesterday. They essentially started Jaden Daniel's career
in the home game they lost Week three. Well, let
let's let's say something fluky happened, happens and they lose
the football game, and they're three and six and it's
the deadline.

Speaker 4 (01:21:12):
What are you doing if you're Duke Tobin cell sell
Sell certainly not just running it back with the same
bunch next year, because they're healthy, They've been generally healthy.
And if you say you're just gonna run it back
next year, he's not gonna be here, right, Okay, So reset,
figure out how you're gonna get better, what free agent

(01:21:33):
target you're gonna go for, what you're gonna do to
highlight another high draft pick.

Speaker 7 (01:21:38):
So the Detroit Lions look terrific.

Speaker 4 (01:21:41):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Aiden Hutchinson is out for the season. Yeah, the owner
of the Raiders has said we're not trading Max Crosby'd
be kind of cool if they did in time for
this game on Sunday.

Speaker 7 (01:21:52):
Lions need a pass rusher.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
If you're three and six at the deadline, are you
calling Detroit and making Trey Hendrickson available?

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
Yep?

Speaker 7 (01:22:00):
Understanding he has a year left on his deal.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
He will be after his deal, though, I don't think
he will, so cut it now, you're making that phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:22:08):
Get the most you can because at three and six
they're not going anywhere. The goal is no longer to
just compete to make the playoffs here, and if it is,
you're in it for the wrong reason.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
But realistically, if you're three and six getting in, I
said a few weeks ago here with you, get to
four and five and we'll talk. And so if they
win that game, they'll be at four and five.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
I mean it, that's three and six. That's gonna say, Okay,
you're gonna go to Baltimore win.

Speaker 7 (01:22:29):
So three and six.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Do the math. You got eight games to go, you
gotta win seven of them to get to ten, and
there's no guarantee you make it at ten. Correct, So
we can discuss trades. Let's be honest. What we have
come to know about the Bengals would suggest that before
Sunday's game, no trade is gonna be made.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Which is the worst like that. It sucks that in itself,
the fact that we can sit here, you're in and
year out and say it's just not what they do
and they never prove us wrong. It's maddening it itself.
But that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
We used to say, they just don't do free agency
a chance they have with some success, right, they just
don't negotiate with players when they have two years left
on their deal.

Speaker 7 (01:23:09):
But they did.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
They did at least negotiate with Jamar Chase, So they
have done some things that you typically don't expect them
to do. At the same time, you're right, I'll believe
it when I see it. The Bengals making an in
season trade that helps them. But in the absence of that,
if they lose on Sunday, then I think you have
to have the serious conversation about hitting the eject button
on the season. And we could say, well, trade t Higgins.

(01:23:32):
That's kind of a no brainer. Ye, what's not so
much of a no brainer as Trey Hendrickson. Yet, I
would say that Detroit Lions, you're in a win now mode.
This guy's now over thirty. What are you gonna give
us for our best defensive player?

Speaker 4 (01:23:46):
Can? Can I tell you what the immediate drawback of
that would be. I don't trust that they're going to
get the picks right that they receive in return.

Speaker 7 (01:23:53):
Might not.

Speaker 4 (01:23:54):
But the more picks you have, the more chances you
have to hit on them, right, But I mean, this
is the same team that draft the Jackson call in
the second round. Sure, it's the same group of decision
makers that took Miles Murphy and Joseph Osai and anyone
else you want to throw out there on the defensive
side of the ball that hasn't panned out, And now
I'm just going to give them more opportunities to swing

(01:24:14):
and miss at those guys. Now, one could argue that
it feels like the early returns on this year's draft
class are better, but we still got a long way
to go to determine that. But I mean that that's
the hard part. I'd much rather be in the scenario
where you go get a proven guy for the draft
picks that you've accumulated and try to win this year.

(01:24:35):
But I don't trust that they do that.

Speaker 7 (01:24:36):
Right, But at three and six, you're not winning this year?

Speaker 4 (01:24:39):
And again, okay, what is a win against the Raiders?
Does that change it for you at four and five? No?

Speaker 7 (01:24:46):
Not not really.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
But as at four and five, I just means that
they in my opinion, they don't sell, but they don't buy.
They just kind of sit by.

Speaker 7 (01:24:52):
Which that doesn't work no for me.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
You're if you're if you're four and five, if they
win the game, you cannot look at this team and go,
you know what, we're ready to go win a championship.
And maybe they're not a guy away, but I mean,
if you're gonna be serious about all right, we're gonna
take this group and try to win with it, you
have to add to it. They have to at least
try to add to it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
If you know just the basic fundamentals of football, and
you watch the Bengals yesterday against the Eagles or any
other games, you're not convinced that they're a championship team
right now. The way they're constructed, they're not winning anything.
So either go do something about it. And again, I

(01:25:34):
know you could say one player, an upscale defensive end,
makes this whole defense better immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
Can you trade for Max Crosby? Yeah, you don't have
to play them on Sunday?

Speaker 4 (01:25:43):
Makes it better immediately, right, makes it better immediately. So
you do that and you get te healthy, then you
can at least pitch the rosters better. Still gonna have
the same people calling the place, which is the root
of it in my opinion. So it just feels like
a tough spot for an organization that was dealt what

(01:26:05):
we thought a good roster, super Bowl contending roster.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Favorable schedule, and a fourth place schedule. Yeah, and a
quarterback who statistically is having a good year.

Speaker 4 (01:26:15):
He's the best QBR quarterback in the game. Right, he's
top three and a bunch of other categories, quite five,
and a bunch of others. Right, they're three and five.
It is criminal to waste that they converted seventy seven
percent of their third downs yesterday and they didn't ask
Ryan Rico to punt once they lost by twenty Huh. Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
No, it is.

Speaker 7 (01:26:35):
And you know we've talked a lot about Zach Taylor
and the coaching staff. Let me ask you this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
If Zach Taylor coached defense, if he had a defensive background,
do you think lou Anarumo would be the defensive coordinator today?
So the Bengals a long time ago got rid of
a defensive coordinator during the season, Arrell Austin Marvin's last.

Speaker 7 (01:26:58):
Year midway through the season.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Yep, and Marvin took over defensive players didn't work, he
would have to be gone, right, So should that be
the only reason that Leun Romo is still here just
because that's discipline.

Speaker 7 (01:27:11):
Is not on the defensive side.

Speaker 4 (01:27:12):
And I have no idea how he still is. I mean,
I g I said, Sam Hubbard and Miles Murphy are
two fifty two and two fifty three out of two
hundred and fifty five players. Greated. I mean, if for
my past rush win races, if.

Speaker 7 (01:27:24):
The philosophy is going to be we're just gonna rush three,
I can call that defense.

Speaker 4 (01:27:28):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (01:27:28):
I could put the headset on and go rush three.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
Right that that that doesn't require really any I just
anything whatsoever.

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
I just can't really do you know how hard it
is to give up points on sixty three percent of
the drives?

Speaker 7 (01:27:42):
Staggering and staggering.

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
Sixty three percent anytime you play an able bodied offense.
I just that is a staggering number versu the team
you'll see on Monday Night Football tonight. Who again, we
all say whatever you want about the Pittsburgh Steelers twelve percent,
twelve percent of opposing team's drive ends and touchdown. That's

(01:28:04):
just that's astronomically different. And it wasn't like we thought
going into the year that there was that big of
a gap. Defensively in the North. No. No, we've gone
back to talking about the Bengals defense like we used
to talk about the old line. Just be top twenty,
Like that's our threshold now for a team that we

(01:28:25):
hoped would win a Super Bowl is man, if their
defense could just be top twenty, that's awful.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
Let me ask you this, So Pittsburgh has a good defense, right,
goes without saying. How many defensive players do the Bengals
have that would get on the field for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
Probably Logan Wilson, Trey Hendrickson. I don't know who else,
anybody in the second area. I don't know anybody else
on the defensive line. Maybe VJ. Hill would be a
rotation guy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
I think BJ Hill would would get some time.

Speaker 4 (01:28:56):
Yeah. I think Sam Hubbard is no.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Joseph Asai nope, Miles Murphy no, Jermaine Pratt nope, Jordan
Battle No. I think Von Bell's playing for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
No, he couldn't play for the Carolina Panthers.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
Cam Taylor Britt maybe but not not. He might be
their third guy. DJ Turner No, what are we doing?

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
Great question?

Speaker 7 (01:29:18):
Right now?

Speaker 4 (01:29:20):
The problem is almost.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Every guy that I mentioned was a homegrown Bengal player.

Speaker 4 (01:29:24):
Yeah, guys that they drafted, I mean, von Bell.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
Came from the Panthers, and prior to that, came from
New Orleans. Beyond the BJ Hill, who I think would
would get some run with the Steelers came from another organization.
Everybody else is homegrown. Yeah, everybody else is the guy
they've drafted. And by the way, not six or seventh rounders.

Speaker 4 (01:29:40):
Now, if you ask me about guys they got rid of,
I'd say probably so, probably DJ Raider, probably Jesse Bates
would play for the Pittsburgh Bates Choz probably right, like yeah,
but those are guys they moved on from because they
were gonna draft guys. So now one might say, well, defensively,
they've they've got just a bunch of dudes.

Speaker 2 (01:29:59):
What's loose supposed to to do? That's when you need coaching,
And that's the thing, like I get it. So all right,
first of all, it's not like Lou doesn't have a
say in who they take. Secondly, he certainly has a
say in how they develop them. Third all right, we
might not have the dudes like your pass rush can't be.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
Can you name me two guys pray or none. Can
you name me three guys on the Vikings defense, it's
pretty no name. I know Ivan Pace the no name. Yeah,
and they're one of the best defense in the league.
Why no one says it's because of that player. That player.
They said, it's the Brian Flores system.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Flores.

Speaker 4 (01:30:30):
Yeah, okay, So you can have a system and scheme
that gives you advantages if your players aren't elite. It
happens in the in the league, but it just can't
happen here.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Yeah, it is seventeen minutes after five o'clock. He's Tony Piko,
moleg Or, Toni and Mo Football Show.

Speaker 7 (01:30:52):
You see goes to Boulder.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
And loses and I see the greatest college football player
of all time. We'll talk some college football when we
come back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Station is Football in Thennetti run to you in Pipe
by blood Light and by Skyline Shilly on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
Twenty three after five o'clock, ESPN fifteen thirty, Tony Pike, moeger,
Toni and Mo Football Show, ESPN fifteen thirty, where Twin
Peaks in Westchester until six o'clock. We've spent the majority
of the last two hours and twenty minutes or so
on the Bengals in the NFL. You see, had a
two game winning streak headed to Boulder, they lose to

(01:31:34):
the Buffaloes thirty four to twenty three. Bearcats are now
five and three. What was your big takeaway from Saturday
Night two one?

Speaker 4 (01:31:42):
The end of half struggles are amazing.

Speaker 7 (01:31:45):
Maddening at this point. It's insane for those who don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
In their last in the last possession of the first half,
they've had four miss kicks. They had a turnover on
downs close to midfield on Saturday, and they also have
to fumble while Joe Royer was trying to score against Miami,
and the end of half sequence has been maddening. Not
only did they turn it over on downs, they allowed
Travis Hunter to get behind the defense and they throw

(01:32:10):
a touchdown pass that kind of felt like it ended
the game.

Speaker 4 (01:32:12):
So that's my thing. Like the misses, Like they missed
the twenty plus yard field goal against Pitt and then
Pitt went and got points before the half, right, they
missed the field goal against Texas Tech at the half,
missed it at the end of the game as well.
Texas Tech gains all the momentum. You know, they they
overcame that in UCF but it did tie the game

(01:32:33):
in the second half. It got dicey against Arizona State
in the same manner. You keep playing with fire, you're
gonna get burnt. I don't know how they're so bad
at half. That was my biggest takeaway. My second biggest takeaway.
The loss, in my opinion, was more about how good
Colorado is than I thought what UC did or didn't do.

(01:32:54):
Like I've been on the sideline for every game this year,
that was the most physical defense I've seen. Wasn't the
best defense.

Speaker 7 (01:33:02):
It's really hard hitting, but they hit.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
Yeah, they fly around, they hit, and offensively, I've not
seen weapons that are that dangerous with the ball in space,
like Horn and like Travis Hunter Shador Sanders. The matchup
made me nervous because they don't generate enough pass rush.
Shador was able to do over what he wanted, but
most of the stuff he did was five yards in
under Yeah, just getting the ball out.

Speaker 7 (01:33:25):
Quick and U See's tackling was not good.

Speaker 4 (01:33:28):
Yeah, Their tackling's bad, but I think that's a lot
on Yes, you see needs to be better, but I
think they have really good athletes. I think that is
a well coached, very talented Colorado team that has a
chance to win the next four and play for a
Big twelve championship.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
I mean, for for all, I think Deion Sanders gets
a lot of attention for things that have less to
do with his actual coaching. First of all, it feels
like he has a terrific staff. Robert Livingston, former Bengals
position coach, runs the defense. Dan Horde said this during
the broadcast on Saturday. Their special teams are really well coached.
And to me, the sign of a really well coached team,

(01:34:05):
especially at the college level, is that they execute and
they're really well coached on special teams. And you could
roll your eyes at me for saying this. Travis Hunter
had nine catches for one hundred and fifty three yards
and two touchdowns on nine targets. Right on nine targets,
he had four pass breakups. That's the best college football
player I've ever seen. Now, I've maybe seen better wide receivers,

(01:34:29):
and i've maybe seen better cover mat I've never seen
anybody do both and do both for the entire game.
You'll see dbs where there's a gimmick player too, they'll
be in on for offense. I've not seen anybody like him.
I'm not prone to hyperbole. I had kind of felt
this way going in, but I wanted to see him

(01:34:50):
in person because I knew i'd get a chance. He
took an all league caliber wide receiver out of the
game and he did whatever he wanted on offense.

Speaker 7 (01:34:58):
That's the best. And it wasn't like it was just
one really good game that he had. This is what
he does.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
I've not college football hasn't seen anything like him.

Speaker 4 (01:35:07):
No, to play over one hundred plays every single game
at an elite level on both sides of the ball
is incredible, and I think that was my like. You
watch him on TV, and it's one thing to see
how physical he was with Xavier Henderson, who is not
a bum right. He went down on Joe Royer a
couple of plays. And then his route running is unbelievable.

(01:35:32):
He's such a crisp route runner, and then the moves
he makes after the catch, the fast twitch muscles are incredible.
I was blown away seeing him in person, and I
know he has the antics after every play he backs
it up. Man, he is, He's so good and to
do that playing over one hundred plays a game and

(01:35:54):
major college football and in a big time physical league
is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
I mean, he's not a great wide receiver who's a
mediocre corner, right, and he's not a terrific corner, and
he's you know, their third option on offense. He's awesome
at both.

Speaker 4 (01:36:12):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
It's it's I said this to somebody at the Holy
Grail yesterday, like he gets a lot of attention. I'm
still not sure he gets enough because when you think Colorado,
it's it's Prime and Shador and the star power, all
the celebrity.

Speaker 7 (01:36:27):
I I don't think he gets talked about enough. And
I know he gets talked about a lot. Like I
My big takeaway.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
I walked in the house yesterday, my wife asked me
about the game, and I go, I got to watch
Travis Hunter play man like I'm sorry I should.

Speaker 7 (01:36:42):
I am bummed.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
The Bearcats didn't win, and they were obviously complicit in
their own demise, but I I that's one of the
best performances I've ever seen in sports. Yeah, it sounds
sounds hyperbolic, it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:36:56):
And as much as Dion takes or brings upon himself
the atmosphere the show.

Speaker 7 (01:37:02):
Like, it's awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:37:03):
Everything's cool. It's awesome with what they're doing. I mean
watching that from a pregame standpoint to the end game,
to the aura which he kind of carries himself. Now
for the Bearcats, defensively, they got to play fast, they've
got to tackle, and offensively, it feels like the last
couple weeks they've lost their rhythm a little bit. Yea,
you know, they they win the toss and take the ball,

(01:37:25):
which I don't mind. They went three and out in
forty seconds. That puts you behind. Their second half offense
Arizona State and against Colorado wasn't good enough. There wasn't
a ton of balance, even though they ran the ball
statistically pretty well.

Speaker 7 (01:37:40):
The fourth and one at the end of the half.
We talked about it with the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:37:42):
They love to play called terrible terrible. I like the
idea to go for it.

Speaker 7 (01:37:46):
They put Soresby in the.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
Gun by himself, empty backfield and they try a quarterback run.

Speaker 4 (01:37:52):
Yeah, but why not put him under center? Yeah? Or
put him under center, or put Corey Kinner back there. Yeah,
who's made a living of making people missing getting the
right now for you see what they've done before. This
game helps, sure, but we waited for that Nip and
knit not going to be nip knite another nip noon game.

(01:38:12):
They have to beat West Virginia. Yes, I agree, because
if not, the pressure that would follow at five wins
and then they would be five and four if they
don't beat West Virginia, who I think beat Arizona this weekend.
If you don't beat the Arizona you've got to go
to eleven Iowa State to seventeen Kansas State, and then TCU,
who just beat Texas Tech, comes into your building. You

(01:38:34):
don't want to go into that last game at five
and six and have to win a bull legibleity. And
I also got done this week.

Speaker 7 (01:38:42):
I feel like, you know, we said before the season,
get to six and six.

Speaker 4 (01:38:47):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:38:47):
When you start five and two, if you finish six
and six, that doesn't feel so good.

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
I think for everybody to walk away with a positive
feeling about the season, I think they've got to win
seven games.

Speaker 4 (01:38:59):
Yeah, and West Virginia probably if you win those two games.
But if you beat West Virginia, you get the monkey
off your back, your bligible, and you say win one
of these next story. If you lose to West Virginia,
that pressure starts to mount.

Speaker 2 (01:39:16):
No, this is this is a big I didn't view
Colorado as house money, but I also understood that there's
a real strong possibility they lose. Colorado just has better athletes.
They right now have a better quarterback. You're coming home,
you have to be I'm with you. I think if
we're talking about them being five and six with TCU

(01:39:37):
come to town, I'm not sure achieving ball eligibility is
going to make anybody feel really good. I think this
game on a week from Saturday is really important. Its
also important they get Louke Candor back, and with a
week off this week, we're really not going to get
an update on him.

Speaker 7 (01:39:53):
Ohio State struggles. We watch that game.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
Defensively, Ohio State was terrific, Buckeyes offensively kind of spun
their tires, while at the same time Indiana was winning
with a backup quarterback. Can i U start has been
treated as it's this, you know, fun story, Kirk sing
that he's a guy, you know They did a profile
a lot of them on college game Day about how
bold he is and he's.

Speaker 7 (01:40:17):
An interesting dude. Then they hammer Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
They follow that up with game day, they play a
backup quarterback and they beat Washington by fourteen points. And
I think all along they have been talked about as
a neat story, but we're not gonna take him seriously
in the context of the Big Ten race. They're still
gonna play Ohio State. Granted they still have two games
between now and when they go to Columbus. Do you
think they can beat the Buckeyes on the road now?

Speaker 4 (01:40:40):
I do. Watching this Ohio State team play, I just
don't think Will Howard's a guy in statistically one tamble.
He's thirteen to sixteen in the game. They only asked
him to throw sixteen times. What's that tell you in
a game where they were struggling. I just that Nebraska
team got beat fifty six to seven and was a
twenty five point favorite, and it took a late drive

(01:41:04):
and holding off Nebraska to win that game. I just
don't think Ohio State's playing at that caliber right now.
And the more they win at Indiana, the more they're
gonna keep believing. What a huge one this weekend at
Penn State and they're the four and a half point favorites. Yeah. Now,
I don't know what drawler draws game time decision. Yeah,

(01:41:25):
that's gonna be a big difference. But Penn State hammered
Wisconsin and Ohio State struggled with debrask I think that
game at Penn State makes it interesting. And then what
becomes even more interesting if they slip up against Penn
State in the end is an elimination gamemt Ohio State
not being in the twelve team playoff with that roster
and the amount of money spent unbelievable.

Speaker 7 (01:41:47):
What if Ohio State? You know, it's Ryan Day.

Speaker 2 (01:41:49):
It's often the conversation starts with his recent struggles against Michigan.

Speaker 7 (01:41:55):
I don't think this is going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
What if he's fake playing Michigan with three losses on
his resume this year?

Speaker 4 (01:42:02):
Yeah, unbelievable. Man.

Speaker 7 (01:42:05):
Then what's the dynamic, right.

Speaker 4 (01:42:07):
If they lose to that Michigan team. Yeah, if they
left three losses this year, days gone. You can't You
cannot go to boosters and raise that type of money
from an nile standpoint, and not even make a twelve
team playoff, yeah, no chance.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Yeah, even with the expanded uh big ten.

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
Then there's Kentucky Nikes. Has there been a faster fall
from Grace then? Arguably the program's biggest win in their
history and what they've done since.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
Well, Mark steps has done a really nice job. Yes,
I think he's done a really nice job. How far
can you go with him?

Speaker 7 (01:42:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
I just if.

Speaker 2 (01:42:49):
There's there's kind of a staleness there and there's also
a sense of like running in place. Yeah, and the
SEC is larger and Alabama doesn't have the death grip
over the conference that it once had, you know, probably
shared by Georgia in recent years. But still I don't know.
Man Mark Steubs has done a lot of really good things.
But if you're if you're really gonna compete, really compete

(01:43:10):
and er where there's a twelve team playoff, so the
doors wide or open for everybody? Is Mark Stoops the guy?

Speaker 7 (01:43:16):
I think it's a legitimate question.

Speaker 4 (01:43:17):
Yeah, and I would say no, probably it is. That's
nothing to do with him liking or disliking you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
Well, Plus it'd be cool if they got a new coach,
because then maybe I could we could get him on
the air.

Speaker 4 (01:43:27):
Yeah, it's great. We made people from Kentucky listen. Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
Mark Stoops for those who don't know, has refused to
come on this radio station despite the fact that we
carry the games.

Speaker 4 (01:43:38):
Who's your Who's Who's the best team in football?

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Well you asked me that question three weeks ago, and
I said, Ohio State.

Speaker 4 (01:43:45):
And went to Texas. So they lost Georgia. Georgia the
win in Austin. Can Miami win? Cam Ward's great?

Speaker 7 (01:43:58):
I mean can they win? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
Because also, what Notre Dame did the Navy was impressive.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
What Notre Dame has done after losing that game to
Northern Illinois has been really impressive.

Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
Yeah, no, no question about it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:09):
I'll say Georgia, ok, yeah, kind of Dingham because they
lost and Alabama bounce back and shut out Missouri.

Speaker 4 (01:44:16):
Georgia over Oregon. Yeah, what's your reservation on Oregon?

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Uh? From what I've seen, admittedly not watching every snap
of every Ducks game, I don't think they. I don't
think they could keep Georgia from pushing them around.

Speaker 4 (01:44:35):
Yeah. The physicals, yeah, I don't think. Although they handled
the physicals of Ohio State's defense, fine, I did, but I.

Speaker 7 (01:44:40):
Don't I think I think Georgia is a different animal.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
I think if if I put those two teams on
a neutral field, I would pick Yeah, I would pick Georgia.
I've admittedly I've watched Oregon against Ohio State, and I
watched him they play early in the season. Yeah, I
feel comfortable saying Georgia, all right, But I think there's

(01:45:02):
a wide openness to it.

Speaker 7 (01:45:04):
I think this We've talked about this.

Speaker 2 (01:45:05):
I think this season has been fun, and I think
the freedom of movement of players has given us a
level of parody that we haven't had in this sport. Yeah,
and I know people don't like it when a backup
decides I'm not going to be a backup. But now
that kid goes and finds a starting opportunity and it
makes a school that you typically don't expect to win
even beat.

Speaker 4 (01:45:22):
Yeah. Vandabilt held their own against Texas. He did lost.
My three think should be bad for Kentucky. This week,
tennessee their debut in those unbelievably cool night uniforms. Seventh
in the country, still in the running.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
Well, if you're looking for the Mark Stoops Show tonight,
it's at six o'clock on Fox Sports.

Speaker 7 (01:45:39):
Thirteen sixty.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
It's a twenty three away from six Tony and Mo
Football Show at Twin Peaks in Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
You've been listening to football in Thennetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
It's away from six o'clock Tony Mo Football Show Twin
Peaks in Westchester. A reminder, we are at the Florence
location a week from today after the Bengals take on
the Las Vegas Raiders. That'll be a trade deadline EVE
poll questions the service of United Heartland Insurance. The Bengals
are three and five. The season is either over or salvageable.

(01:46:23):
Vote now at moegar on X. Is it over or
is it salvagable? Salvageable, salvagable.

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
I don't know. I'm just trying trying to do anything wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:46:32):
All you know, Hey, just win that game on Sunday.
You know they scored thirty eight against Baltimore the first game.
You know this is Joe gets hot in November. You
know we'll talk ourselves into it.

Speaker 4 (01:46:46):
Yeah, I mean, who needs to win a home game
in September October when you have November and December to
win at home. Right, this starts new this Sunday, I
saw a stat This is the point of the year,
the show. We could just throw random stuff out there. Sure,
I saw a guy. Jay Morrison tweeted out that the
Bengals had three pressures against the Eagles. That's the second

(01:47:08):
fewest in the league this year, though Willie Luttz tweeted
out that that is with the third The Bengals ranked
third in twenty twenty four defensive line spending. They've spent
the third most money on their D line. How many
other teams in the league organizations would like to be

(01:47:29):
given Hey, we're gonna give you top five money to
revamp this D line, and that's the group that would
be thrown out there. Yeah, like that to me, Like,
what if that's the case. Trey Hendrickson deserves every dime he.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
Game and a lot of that money doesn't account for
Miles Murphy a first round pick.

Speaker 4 (01:47:47):
Correct, that is that's that is staggering to me. Third
in defensive line spending and their D line is historically banned.

Speaker 7 (01:47:57):
Let's be honest, though.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
Hendrickson, nobody has any issue with the money he's making
because yesterday aside, he's a productive player.

Speaker 4 (01:48:05):
Sam Hubbard tall.

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
Sam Hubbard got a contract extension from this team which
he's playing on right now. And you know, he had
a nice game against the Browns. I'll give him that.
I've often watched this team and I've often watched him
wondering where's Sam. Yeah, where Sam making a play yesterday?
Non factor. So that's where a lot of that money

(01:48:29):
comes from. Sam and Trey, right, those are the two guys.
Trey's are free agent acquisitions. Hubbard's a guy that they
they re signed Trey. I'm getting my money's worth. I
didn't yesterday, but I'm getting my money's worth.

Speaker 7 (01:48:40):
Are we from Sam?

Speaker 4 (01:48:42):
The top the top four highest paid players on d
er on the D line, Hendrickson, Rankins, Hill, Hubbard.

Speaker 7 (01:48:49):
Are you getting your money's worth from Sheldon Rankins?

Speaker 4 (01:48:52):
No, I mean that's Sheldon Rankins is eleven point nine million.
Uh huh, BJ Hill's ten to nine, Sam Hubbard's ten
to one. Yeah. I mean think of the think of
the players that you could bring in for that type
of money, proven players in the National Football League is
crazy to think about. It's I mean, that's that is

(01:49:15):
unbelievable to say, Okay, we're gonna set aside this much
money on our D line. And that's the product which
goes to what we talked about the beginning. Does it
that it's false at the top, So.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
Two free agents you've paid Rankins and Hendrickson Hill, who
you re upped with Hubbard you chose to pay money to,
and then day one draft choices Miles Murphy, McKinley Jackson
and Chris Jenkins'.

Speaker 7 (01:49:49):
Like, I mean, the point is valid.

Speaker 2 (01:49:52):
This isn't a Dearius Smith or Sam Hubbard right now,
it's not even close.

Speaker 4 (01:49:55):
Darius Smith's making five million dollars. Sam Hubbard's getting twice
as m much, is him? H huh? Save close?

Speaker 7 (01:50:02):
Well, I like Sam, but sorry that close.

Speaker 4 (01:50:04):
I'm with you. Like the interior part of the D line,
Cam Hayward makes twelve and the drop between Cam Haybard
and Sheldon Rankins is more than a million dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:50:14):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:50:15):
Just that's that is terrible decision making, whether that's evaluating investing.
And again, this is the same defense that can pay
all that money on the D line that said, now
we're good, Jesse Bates, We'll fill that role with free
agents and draft picks.

Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
Yeah, and it sort of goes to show that where
you are now you can't with in free agency.

Speaker 4 (01:50:39):
Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
You know, when you're spending money all over the place
on defense, which is what they did in twenty one,
you can have a whiff.

Speaker 7 (01:50:46):
You can't with now.

Speaker 4 (01:50:48):
Jesse Bates making ten million this year, The.

Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
Jesse Bates thing ten million, The Jesse Bates thing is
gonna haunt this team feast for quite a while.

Speaker 4 (01:50:54):
He's cheaper than Rankins, Hill and Hubbard. Staggering, Yeah, staggering financially.

Speaker 2 (01:51:01):
It it's gonna end up going down as one of
the worst decisions they've ever made.

Speaker 7 (01:51:06):
It probably already is.

Speaker 2 (01:51:07):
Yeah, Jesse's playing at an extraordinarily high level and they
haven't come close to figuring out how to replace him.

Speaker 4 (01:51:13):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
I mean, we're gonna go into this offseason kind of wondering, like, well,
what do we do with safety? Bon Von Bell's done?
Gino Stone hasn't worked out like Jordan Battle. Jordan Battle
got torched yesterday. We're gonna go into the season wondering,
for for for a for a league that has decided
we're taking away the deep ball, the Bengals can't don't
know how because they suck at safety.

Speaker 4 (01:51:33):
But at the same point, so you're telling me right
now that if if the season ended and the Bengals
had a top draft pick again, wide receiver, running back,
oat line, d line, corner, safety are all on the table.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
Uh huh, Yeah, it's it's it's a not a good roster.
I just that doesn't excuse anybody else's role.

Speaker 7 (01:51:55):
But it is not.

Speaker 2 (01:51:56):
It's not a it's not a championship caliber roster.

Speaker 4 (01:51:59):
And you can also all linebacker. So outside of Logan Wilson,
you could argue linebacker. Sure, So the only you could realistics,
he say, realistically say the only position you'd be comfortable
in is quarterback. That's how bad this roster has become.
Without Joe Burrow's major contract hit, without Jamar Chase's contract,

(01:52:23):
that's how bad this roster is. So if all these
guys are rookie deals.

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
Again, we did the exercise with the Steelers before. Let's
say the best three teams in the league are Baltimore,
Detroit or Kansas City Detroit.

Speaker 7 (01:52:34):
Would you still say Baltimore?

Speaker 2 (01:52:36):
I would, I would, all right, despite losing yesterday. Look
at every position Do the Bengals have a player better
than the players who play that position.

Speaker 7 (01:52:47):
For those three teams?

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
Wide receiver, yes they have.

Speaker 7 (01:52:51):
They have an all world wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:52:53):
They have a very good defensive vent who's over the
age of thirty, and they have a terrific quarterback, which,
by the way, so do those other teams. So where
else would the Bengals if you held up those four rosters,
would you say the Bengals have the.

Speaker 4 (01:53:04):
Best player or coach or coach?

Speaker 7 (01:53:07):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:53:07):
Not there?

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
I mean two of those teams have Two of those
teams have Hall of Fame coaches Reed definitely, Harball probably,
and Dan Campbell's done amazing work in Detroit. So you
don't have a coaching advantage they gain like you get
mad at me for saying it. But the standard are
the best teams are? Where are the Bengals better than
the three best teams? And if you want to take
out Baltimore and put in somebody else, put in Buffalo

(01:53:30):
by all means, go ahead. Where are the Bengals better
positionally than the three best teams in the league?

Speaker 4 (01:53:35):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:53:36):
Where are they better than the top two teams right
now in your division? Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Where are they better? Right?

Speaker 4 (01:53:42):
Where are they better coaching? Right? Like those are It's
the most sobering conversation to have.

Speaker 7 (01:53:49):
As the kids would say, they're mid Yeah, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:53:51):
The most sobering conversation to have for a team that
had Super Bowl aspirations.

Speaker 2 (01:53:57):
This is the super Bowl window. And that's the straight
thing for me. We're talking about salvaging the season. We're
talking about escaping and getting in as the last wild card.
I this was the year where we talked about, God,
you know what, get off to a fast start, take
advantage of that schedule.

Speaker 7 (01:54:12):
You could be a one seed. One seed.

Speaker 4 (01:54:14):
Yeah, I just it's almost lifeable to talk about sneaking
in the playoffs when you've yet to win a home game, right,
no doubt, no no questions. Compete against a good team,
right like their wins? Great, you won against the worst
team in football and two of the worst offensive in football.

Speaker 2 (01:54:30):
Look, you know, I certainly went out of my way
to make fun of people who couldn't enjoy wins. But mechanically,
if you look at those games, there wasn't much to
like about the individual team performance. There were there were
things to like about certain players in those games.

Speaker 4 (01:54:43):
You just kept waiting for the fool all together.

Speaker 2 (01:54:46):
We said after Cleveland, uninspiring performance, we said after the Giants. Okay,
gutsy gritty went on the road, but boy and not
that great. Even Carolina did some really good things. But
you know what if Zach Moss doesn't make a great
play at the end of the first half, and then
their losses have been.

Speaker 4 (01:55:02):
And at the top of it all with a Super
Bowl run in an AFC North AFC title game back
to back years. The headman is forty forty nine and
one as the head coach of the Bengals, And we
just moved to the next week.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
Marvin Lewis comes to town this week.

Speaker 4 (01:55:19):
Move to the next week. No one's tell it accountable,
just pick it up. Roster's good enough as it is.
Let's go do it again.

Speaker 7 (01:55:27):
Uh, take care of your voice.

Speaker 4 (01:55:28):
Thank you. I'm off tomorrow. I took your advice as
you should be. You know, I got called part time
Tony at work, part.

Speaker 7 (01:55:36):
Time Tony because because you're struggling with your voice and.

Speaker 4 (01:55:38):
I'm struggling with my voice. And I said, and I
talked to a guy who's done this a lot longer
than me, and It's not gonna get better unless you
take a day and rest.

Speaker 2 (01:55:45):
And in a job where the number one thing you
have to have is your voice. You're being called part
time tonyst it you part time? You flew all night
on Saturday night to Sunday morning to answer the ballot
nine am yesterday and then did six two shows today
and you're part time Tony.

Speaker 4 (01:56:02):
Go to rest?

Speaker 7 (01:56:02):
Can we say publicly who called you this?

Speaker 4 (01:56:05):
Austin? Really Austin, really part time Tony.

Speaker 7 (01:56:11):
I hope he has vocal issues one day.

Speaker 4 (01:56:12):
Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
I hope he has like a cold and tries to
work through.

Speaker 4 (01:56:17):
I hope he deals with part time Tony today.

Speaker 7 (01:56:19):
All right, We're done.

Speaker 2 (01:56:21):
E FC Cincinnati soccer is coming up next, the Orange
and Blue hosting New York City. Game one Please we
need It starts at six forty five. The Hopes of
a City rest on. Pat Noonan's Club coverage comes your
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