11/11/24 - The Tony & Mo Football Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from
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Just off I seventy one, Exit fifty inside the Holiday

(00:24):
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the official home of the Bengal Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
All right, here we go. It's five minutes after three
o'clock ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger with Tony Pike on Mondays.
We call it The Tony and Mo Football Show on
ESPN fifteen thirty, broadcasting from Twin Peaks in Florence. We
will be back in Westchester a week from today, the
day after the Bengals take on the Los Angeles Chargers.
First things first, if you're in Northern Ky today, what

(01:01):
a great day to be out about First of all,
if you served our country happy Veterans Day, we would
be honored to have you spend part of your afternoon
with us. Great plays to watch Monday night Football Tonight,
Dolphins and Rams, or if you're looking ahead to this weekend,
all the college and pro football, college hoops has well,
Kentucky and Duke tomorrow night. This would be a great
place to watch. Plenty of cold beer, awesome menu, and

(01:25):
we've got Navilla, which is heaven spelled backwards. Wow, she
is our server todayble come see her, Come see us.
We are here until six o'clock and there's a lot
of ground to cover. The Bengals Ravens game feels like
it happened over a week ago. But I'm here to
provide some good news. Oh, here's the good news. The

(01:45):
Denver Broncos lost yesterday. Bengals fans, you know we're typically
not in a position to be rooting for the Kansas
City Chiefs. I was yesterday. They get a block field
goal at the end of the game they hang on
to beat the Broncos. Denver loses. The Indianapolis Colts lost
at home to the Buffalo Bills thirty to twenty, and

(02:06):
so Denver remains a game ahead Bengals an Indie your Tide,
and Cincinnati gets to play the Los Angeles Chargers this week,
and la schedule after that includes games against the Ravens,
Falcons on the road at Kansas City, the Bucks, and Denver.
We went into last week talking about how maybe nine

(02:28):
wins could do it get him into the postseason. Nine
wins will do it. The question is can the Bengals
get there?

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, Well, the good news is is I'm gonna report
they've bolstered their roster today.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oh really bolster, Yeah, the roster, which.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
We can dive into it. They've helped the running back room.
Oh yeah, not Leonard Fournette. Okay, the dbs have not
been helped out with Xavier Howard. We can dive into
all of that. But I'm with you. But eventually, you
gotta beat a good football team, no doubt. This team's
four wins are against bad football t and you'll play
more bad football teams on the way out, and you

(03:04):
get to play the Denver Broncos, and you get to
play the Chargers, and you still play the Steelers twice.
There are winnable games left on the schedule, but eventually.
The more we keep saying is that it started out eleven. Yeah,
now it's ten. Now we're trying to talk ourselves into nine.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Gonna be eight next week.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
At some point, you've got to beat a good football
team and not just be close, not just come in
the day or a couple of days after and talk about, man,
just a couple things that could have changed the result
of that game. And there are certainly a ton we
can talk about, but you've eventually got to start beating
teams and stop just talking about it, much like what

(03:41):
the same conversation with the Bearcats today.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
And that's the thing. Yeah, which we're gonna talk about
the Bearcats a little bit later on. That's the thing, right,
I mean, just imagine, imagine they go for two, and
we're gonna dive into the ins and outs of that
play in the entire game on Thursday night. But let's
just say, for the sake of argument, they go for two,
get it, and then hold them and Baltimore loses, they
don't kick a field goal, whatever, and the Bengals fly

(04:03):
home with a win, and we're talking about playoff scenarios,
playoff positioning. Maybe the door is at least a little
bit open to the AFC North title. We're talking about,
how boy, this is a team that you do not
want to play, which, by the way, I believe I
mean for two spots, Oh, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
If you're an AFC contender right now and you see
the Broncos, Cults are Bengals, yeah, absolutely want to play
right right now.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
The Buffalo Bills are the two seed. They've got a
monster game against Kansas City. If you're them, if you're Baltimore,
who's given up seventy two points this season to the Bengals.
If you're Kansas City, you look at how the Bengals
played on Thursday night?

Speaker 4 (04:37):
Do you want anything to do with that?

Speaker 2 (04:39):
So we've said it often, right, just get in and
they have a chance. I believe that the question is
will they get in right? Because if we're still doing
this week from today, well, you know they went to
Los Angeles, Well, they played well, they came close. But
you know what, now I tell you what, Denver lost
and well the Colts aren't very good and nobody else
behind him can catch and maybe just eight we'll do it.

(05:01):
That's not going to be good enough.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, it's continuing to move the bar and I said
it on Friday. Thursday's loss hurts again. Why because you
lost the first game to the Ravens and you lost
to the New England Patriots. Just throw everything else out,
go to Kansas City.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Tough loss.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Philly's playing really well right now, you get boat race.
Things just go bit. But look at in the grand
scheme of what happened on Thursday night, it's a lot
easier of appeal to swallow if you took care of
Baltimore at home and if you just had beaten the
New England Patriots. Because then we're still doing the same
thing today. What's the seeding look like today? Now you're
still on the outside looking in, and you've yet to

(05:40):
have a win that you can really hang your hat
on this year and say, okay, that's the one. And
there's the messaging, right. You know, it's a frustrated team.
You listen to the post game from the players on
Thursday night, and then I'm saying players organization wise, you
probably sit back this weekend and say the same thing
we just did, Colts aret running away.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
With anything, not running with anything.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
And all of a sudden it is, well, you know,
we did put a claim in on Yonik and Gocway.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
We just didn't get it.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
And then there was like remember at the deadline, all
the Bengals are actively trying, but man, it just fell through.
And then today all the sudden n's. It's been a
roster that's good enough, and now well here's Xamin Howard
to try to help in the secondary, and here's Leonard
Fournette even though they just traded for Khalil Herbert. It's
the actions of the organization of the team aren't matching

(06:30):
what they're doing. And that's the most frustrating part because
now all the sudden nits, maybe the roster's not good enough.
We need to go do something. Yeah, and now it's
too late. It's what we talked about for weeks.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Well, you know, you talk about losing to the Patriots,
and I fling it back to the summer long conversation
about fast arts urgency. So in a year when we're
doing this, you know, in August and we're talking about
fast arts and they don't get off to one. Remember
October and early November this year, because they start to
two every year they start zero to three. This year.

(07:02):
You go, what, okay, boy, that puts such a premium
on games that are going to be a little bit
more difficult to win in the middle of the season.
So Thursday was a tough pill to swallow for a
lot of different reasons. Officiating, execution, What the Ravens did,
what the Bengals did to themselves, very very tough pill
to swallow. It is made easier if this team prioritizing,

(07:22):
prioritizes getting off to fast starts. And if you get
off to a fast start, guess what, you're maybe not
as desperate to do.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Go find a guy who's not.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
In the league right, like an Xavier Howard, or like
a Leonard Fournette who played in two games for the
Buffalo Bills last year. Like the inability to act and
play with desperation early and the inability to get off
to a not even a fast start, just avoid the
terrible start. Has this team trying to do things that
you don't want to have to do, and has this

(07:52):
team losing games that feel more than just like singular losses.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, it's everything.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
You and I sat at a schedule release party last
year and the schedule came out, and it feels like
every game we've circled to this point has gone against
the Bengals. They've lost in different ways, and I know
that games are winnable. You highlighted this. They still have
a three game stretch in eleven days, so you got
guys banged up. Who knows what the t Higgins quad

(08:17):
is gonna be doing. Who knows what Orlando Brown's availability
is gonna be. There's just a ton of questions around
this team, and the questions become more significant when you
don't take care of your business early in the season.
There's one there's one thing that will become more significant
because you didn't take care of business before the season,
and that's how much money you're gonna pay Jamar Chase.

(08:38):
I mean, you want to talk about betting on yourself? Yep,
you want to. Like every time he touches the ball,
the price tag is going up. It is going to
end up costing this team twenty plus million more dollars.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
He's gonna ask for forty million dollars this year.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
And they could have had him. It's the same thing
we've said in the past.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Man, if they had just done it when they could have,
it would have been the steel of the NFL. And
now the guy that we're watching play game in and
game out for the Bengals. Is going to ask for everything.
Think about what he's gonna deserve it.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
You had no question. Think about what Jamar was doing
this offseason, right, hey signing now, Yeah, Simon, ask get
this done. Let's get it done now, because what you
don't want to happen is me go out there, have
the greatest season that any wide receivers ever had in
this franchise's history. Lead the league in a bunch of categories.
People crown, prove how indispensable I am. Maybe win the
wide receiver triple Crown, and then you're gonna have to

(09:30):
pay me even more.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
And we're gonna look back one and say it was
over what guaranteed a couple guaranteed donas.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah, that's what it was over.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
And it was Jamar asking them to come to the
negotiating table.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yes, and now now think of that role being reversed.
Uh huh, I mean think of what they're bringing now
to the negotiating table. When you look at man, we
could have kind of slid in there with the Justin
Jefferson deal and Brandon Ayuk and all these other deals
that got done. And you just kind of slide right in.
You could have got it done. He takes the insurance
policy out on him. Else it's worth every penny. And

(10:03):
I know he's frustrated because the team's not winning financially.
It's gonna pay off for him in the long way.
And it's gonna be another one of those decisions that
because inevitably the money that he is now gaining is
going to be money that they can't put to somebody else. Right,
it's going to handcuff them even more instead of getting
this done and keeping one of your own in the

(10:24):
building and keeping him happening.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
And he was the one that came to them last offseason.
He said, let's go this, let's go ahead and do
it please. And if you don't, okay, you are out
of your mind, by the way, if you think he's
not gonna ask for dollars, no team friendly stuff now coming.
Team friendly's out the window. Not not when I'm coming
off the season that I'm having right now. It's a
sixteen minutes after three o'clock Bengals lose on Thursday night

(10:49):
to the Baltimore Ravens. You have had a chance to
talk about it because you were on the air on Friday.
I was preempted for Bengals pep rally. So there was
a lot to that game that I haven't had a
chance to talk about, certainly, haven't had a chance with you.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
Let's do it, let's rip the band aid back off.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
We'll do it when we come back. It's seventeen minutes
after three o'clock. We're a Twin Peaks and Florence Tony
and Mo Football Show till six on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station, Tony and Mo Football Show, Twin Peaks
in Florence. We are here until six o'clock the Monday
after the Bengals lost to the Baltimore Ravens in Baltimore
by a score of thirty five to thirty four. So

(11:27):
much from that game to discuss and dissect, and second guests,
let's work backwards. I'm not proud of much, but I
think I have a good track record of not spending
that much time talking about officiating because number one, when

(11:47):
we do, then it takes us down the road of
conspiracy and we have to hear how the games are fixed,
and I don't like doing that. Also, I feel like
it's a lazy go to for a lot of people
say this, not even as a Bengals fan. That was
a great game on Thursday, like three hours and fifteen
minutes of just NFL entertainment. Yep, two great quarterbacks, two

(12:09):
good teams, a great game, a lot riding on it,
awesome atmosphere. If you have no dog in the hunt
emotionally and you watch that game and it ends the
way it does on two egregious non calls, that could
not be less fulfilling.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, And I think the term egregious is the correct
one because you know when when you talk about officiating
a lot, if you're just a casual fan, there's back
and forth. Yeah, that's no, that's not pass interference.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
Yeah, it is like.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
You're Dejon Anthony.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, like you're gonna be right, You're gonna have conversations
about it when you get to the egregious level.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
No one is arguing it.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
It was a blatant hit to the face mask on
Joe Burrow, which gets called on every elite quarterback in
the NFL. Yeah, and it was an unbelievable hold on
Mike Kisiki. Now, I I blame a little bit of
the play design because Burrow's eyes are looking right, and
that means the officials eyes are going to look with him.

(13:09):
So it's harder to see the Micah Sicki hold unless
he would have looked at Kasiki. Then you can't you
can't hide the whistle.

Speaker 5 (13:17):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
The problem is there's an official every play that's watching
the quarterback, and you can't have anymore of a blatant
hit to the head than what Joe Burrows up.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
And like I understand that a lot of people will
sort of go to like, boy, that's a call that
Mahomes gets, and it's a call that Herbert gets.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
I mean Burrow after the games. That's just not a
call I get.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
That's a call that Jake Browning should get. Correct, that's
a call the two atten of iiloishige. That's it called
the Joe flaccoshigi. That's a called the Baker Mayfield should
get it. And some of those guys are better than others.
I mean, the caliber of the quarterback should have nothing
to do with that call being made. That could be
your backup to the backup off the bench in a blowout.
That's a call. That's a flag that's got to be thrown. Yeah,
Player safety and al Michael said after the game on Amazon, like,

(14:01):
we have too many games that end like this where look,
it's it's one thing if you're a fan of that team, right,
and it really hurts if you're a Bengals fan. But
here is a prime time product, right, a primetime standalone.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
All eyes on this and it's a great game, and.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
You sit through and you get that ending. Ye, Like,
just as a sports fan, that's so unfulfilling. It's one thing,
as you said, if it's a borderline call where we
could have a discussion about it and there's some degree
of interpretation, none of that applied here.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, for whatever reason at that point in the game
like that, that can't be the conversation. Well, if that's
in the second quarter, it's a penalty. But it's not
in the last play of the game.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
It's penalty.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's a penalty by any yes, stretch of the law.
And whether it's the last play of the game with
a chance to win the Super Bowl, yes, or a
game that's happening in November and it's in the first quarter,
you call it the same.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
The decision to go for two itself was totally on boards.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
Love it, love it, I mean let's face it. We
we literally just crushed the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, uh huh
against the Chiefs. And because you allowed it to come
down to a coin flip, and at that point in
the game, you weren't going to stop the Baltimore Ravens offense.
And at that point in the game you had just
went down the field in under two minutes with the
hurry up offense. The defense of the Ravens has gassed,

(15:17):
They're tired, they're fatigued. You got all the momentum. Yes,
go win the game.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
If I go for two and I'm successful, I have
to stop them once. If I tied the game, I
might have to stop them twice. Yeah, and I might
not ever touch a coin flip and I might not
ever touch the football. So no issue with it now
to play itself. And you've dissected this. You and I
were talking about it off air. Loved going for it.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Now.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
I was at the game way upstairs, and so from
where I'm sitting, I didn't see that there were two
bright and no calls until afterward. What I did see
is Jamar Chase at the end of the night where
he was unbelievable one on one and they didn't look
his way.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, you know, I even liked Zach's response to taking
the time out because they were just trying to.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Get a cheap, cheap yard.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Sure, yeah, you come in, but before the timeout is
called Herb Street. You got one on one up top.
You gotta take it. You got to go to Jamar Chase.
And then they come out of the timeout and they
show the same thing. Now, there are some out there
that have responded to different things that I've done and said, well,
you know, Joe was worried about the edge rusher.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Dropping into coverage, and it's very simple for me.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
If an edge rusher is gonna drop a corner will
play with outside leverage. Think about it. He'll give up
inside and then it's and then it's Jamar versus d
End going inside. But the corner head inside leverage, which
tells me that he's giving up the inside breaking move
so he doesn't have help to the middle of the field.
They're asking you, and if you slowed down the play,

(16:50):
the back corner of the end zone is wide open.
If Jamar Chase just doesn't move to a slant and
fades to the back, it's a pitch and catch. And
and if you're going for two in the win, you're
calling a play where Jamar Chase, as Joe Burrow said,
was a third option. That play is called against a

(17:10):
goal line zone to work Tanner Hudson in the zone window,
Mike Kasiki on the whip route, and if it's not there,
Jamar Chase working the back line because if Kasicki's covered,
theoretically that coverage is coming from who would stop the
back line throw. The problem was they didn't do that.
They went cover zero and they doubled both tight ends.

(17:32):
Like so, game play of the year, season on the line. Yeah,
your first read coming out of the time out was
Tanner Hudson. That I don't agree with, but yeah, I
don't put it all in Zach two hundred and sixty
four receiving yards was unconscious. You have the ability, if
you're Joe Burrow, to signal a fade. Every playbook has it,

(17:55):
every system has it. If Joe comes up and it's
cover zero and it's man and that corners got in
side leverage, he can see he can signal that out
run a fade and guess what. Then we're not talking
about the hit to the head because the ball would
already be out. We're not talking about the Kasiki hold.
And you're going down swinging, saying a jump ball with
Jamar Chase and that corner versus anybody versus anybody, and

(18:18):
guess what if the corner makes the play of his life,
then you tip your cat yes and you say, okay,
went down giving him a chance. The Bengals went down
on Thursday throwing a ball that even if Kott might
have not have been in the end zone for Tanner Hudson.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
That's my problem. Your guy is right there.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
If if I'm going to do that, if I'm gonna
throw it short of the goal line to Tanner Hudson,
why can't I just take the snap, turn throw to
Jamar Chase and see if he could beat his guy
to the goal line. Yes, why can't I just do that?

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Correct? You can do anything.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
You literally don't have to run around. We're gonna snap it,
turn toward me, the ball's coming your way, break a tackle.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
T it's it. It's the best player on the planet.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
We at that point, because we've talked about short yardage situations,
which we're gonna get to because some of those came
up in that game. Go uh one yard to go?
Two yards to go? If I can, if I, if
I can make the case for doing that at the
other team's forty five yard line, why can't I make
the case to do it with the game hanging in

(19:25):
the balance two yards from the goal line.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
I don't get it. I just don't get why not.
I don't get that. That's not how you're going down.
Make someone else make an amazing play against a guy who,
at that point in time is the best player on
the planet.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
I mean, just ask ask John Harball himself.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yes, ask any Which was surprising to me that they
were willing to go one on one, right, because if
I'm a Ravens fan, I'm screaming that what are we going?

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yes, Yes, get somebody out there.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yes. I mean I could tell you sitting in the stands.
What was coming from the crowd was, holy crap, they're
going for two. We can't stop number one.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
We're on our heels. Yes, and you made it easy on.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Them and walking out like four or five times, folks
were like, why don't you throw the ball to Chase yep,
who's eighty seven? What do you throw That guy?

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Cooked us all night long and again that's why.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
So in my opinion, the play was called to beat
zone because maybe Zach's thinking, Okay, they showed man, surely
they're not going to come out of a timeout and
guard him one on one, so you call the zone beater.
But you have to have the ability and the trust
to change the route.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean, if I'm Joe and Jamar I am the
reason we're there. We are the two reasons here.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
We are removed what from somewhere else?

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I am. I am walking back to the field from
the sideline with Jamar Chase going, I don't care what
he just told us. I don't care what the play is.
You're making a play here, and if you can't, you can't.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
Then you tip your cap and say, hey, they made
the play when they needed so.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yes, there were terrible, egregious non calls, yep, but if
you do what you should have done.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, I'm of.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
The belief that Jamar Chase would have found a way
to get those two.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
And it's not the time. It's not the first time
we've done that this year. Yes, it's not the first
time we've said it.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Wasn't the first time in the game.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah, just screw it.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Throw it to him, and and then and and to
your point, and we'll talk more about the game. There's
also short yarded decisions where you're throwing jump balls to
Jermaine Burton, you're like, you're you're going away from what
has gotten you there on the most that that is
what's haunted this team in the most critical moments, whether
it's been coaching, play calling, or execution, they have failed.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Whether you want to say that's on Zach or on Joe.
They failed.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
They failed on the two point conversion, they failed on
third and fourth and two. They failed on the other
fourth down conversion early in the game. I don't mind
going for it. I don't mind what they're doing in
the aggressiveness you're playing with, but damn, I how do
you not do it?

Speaker 4 (22:02):
With you, with you, with your best?

Speaker 2 (22:03):
To me, it's it's always about asking what would the
other team want you to do. We're gonna throw it
short of the goal line to Tanner Hudson, or we're
gonna throw it anywhere to Jamar Chase.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I I walked down to that stadium and again I've
been baffled. I understand that's what happened. Egregious non calls.
I've watched the play three or four times since I
saw it in real time. It kills There's nothing worse
than not going then then there's nothing worse than going
down with something less than your best. And it's not
the first time it's happened this season, certainly not the
first season we talked about this.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
It's not the first time this season.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
It's multiple times this season against opponent and guess what,
the guys he could win a triple crown. Burrow's on
pace to do amazing. Like it's not like it's what flash,
just a good game. He has been dominant every time
he's taking the field this year. He's the best receiver
right now in football. And you went to Tanner Hudson
the biggest moment, and not just to Tanner Hudson. You

(22:58):
throw it to Tanner Hudson while he was double teamed.
What Jamar Chase was at the top of the screen,
one on one, one on one at the top of
the screen.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I mean, you would have been better off doing a
shovel pass. You know how much I hate the shovel pass.
They could have run a shovel pass for Jamar Chase
and and I would have said, fine.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
As long as he touched the ball, as long as.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
It goes to Jamar Chase yep staggering twenty five away
from four o'clock, Tony and no football show. We're at
Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifty.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Sports headlines are a service at Kelsey Chevrolet, home of
lifetime power tram protection and guarantee credit approval from their
family to yours for life kelseyschev dot com. Are you
excited for the beginning of the Gary Brightwell era in Cincinnati?

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Tony, I don't even know where to begin about his career.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Bengals are getting set to sign Gary Brightwell. Gary Brightwell
Well to Arizona. He was taken by the Giants in
the sixth round of the twenty twenty one draft. Uh
He played in twenty one, twenty two, and twenty three
with New York and carried the football a grand total
of forty one times. He appeared in two games with
the Browns this season. He is a running back.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Many times is he fumbled?

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Looking at his careers, that's fumbles. He has never fumbled
forty one carries. Hang on that, fifty two touches, no fumbles.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
But you guys never fumbled his life, Well I don't.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
I haven't looked at his college stats, but.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
I'm sure he didn't.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I will jourin the break.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
I'm sure he didn't.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
So we we found out today they brought in Leonard
Fournette for a workout, also brawn in former Pro Bowl
corner Xavion Howard and offered him a contract.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
I have no idea how to describe it, but it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
First of all, as a player, does he do anything
for you? Leonard Fournette does nothing.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Leonard does that because there was a big deal abou
him in Buffalo last year and he was nothing.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Right, played in two games, Howard.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
Yes, because.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
They're so bad in the secondary right now, right so
literally trying any anything else in the second Like Chase
Brown's been really good, and I know he fumbled, but
he's been really good. I don't look at the running
back room and say Leonard four net or bust. I
look at the corners. I'm willing to try anything. And
what I don't understand is Examion Howard came today. Yesterday

(25:18):
he was doing the same thing you and I are
doing right now. He's not playing, he's not on a team,
he's not on a practice squad. He's coming off his
couch and was offered a deal and said no, which
baffles me. Yeah, was it just that disrespectful of an
offer that he's like, nah, I don't even need.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
A negotiat You're Exavian Howard thinking that it's twenty twenty
and he's still one of the best cover men in
the league with tons of different offers out there. I
don't know, but it's baffling.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
If he doesn't clearly have any offers out there, what
did the offer have to look like for him to
be like, uh, you know, let me go sleep on it.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
Town was like, nah, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah what And it's not like he would be signed
and relegated to like the practice squad.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
No, you would be signed.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Like I'm thinking it from the agent player standpoint, here's
a situation where the offense is really good, teams are
throwing against him. I can go in, make a couple
of plays and maybe play myself back into another contract
in the NFL. Yeah, the offer didn't do anything. He's like, nah,
I'll just get back to the couch.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
I'll tell you what. Speaking of that position, these next
seven games for Cam Taylor britt are huge because we
talked about coming into the season what a big year
it was for him. So far it hadn't been very good.
Do the next seven games show that the first ten
were an outlier? And because look it's year three. Yeah,
he's not a former first round pick. He has one

(26:48):
year left on his deal. I think has been viewed
as possibly one of those foundational pieces. He has not
played like one this year.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, he's not been good. In fact, at times he's
been non existing it. You know, I I know, I know.
Things went south quickly the other night and everyone blames
the fumble and I get it. Twenty one to seven,
you go down and score games.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Zon.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
What's also a big play is Lamar Jackson just throwing
a hitch route and Cam Taylor Brent point Blake missing
a tackle which leads to a little bit of a loaf.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
From Logan Wilson.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
So he's out a position and then Gino Stone slows
up and all of a sudden, it's an eighty four
yard touchdown pass and the momentum completely flips. So yes,
I know that they were on their heels a little bit,
but it starts with make the tackle, make him go
with eighty yards and threw him some clock.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
It just there. There have been times.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Logan Wilson drops an interceptions.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yeah, there's just there's the ball man. There's opportunities out there.
And whether you want to drive it to the fumble,
yes a problem. Whether you want to drive it to
throwing Jermaine Burton jump balls that aren't even close to
be caught, whether it's a missed interception, whether it's a
low way to got a tiptoe down the sidelines for
eighty four yards. When you got three guys that should
make the play, they don't make any of the plays

(28:11):
necessary to win.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Gamar Jackson waltzing through on a ten yard game before
the touchdown.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
Second nine, and he runs thirty yards backwards.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
To gain nine, to gain ten, it's to ten. Yeah.
Monday Night Football Tonight, Rams and Dolphins on ESPN. Fifteen
thirty College Basketball U se up to seventeenth, KP Top
twenty five Men's College Basketball Poll, Kentucky nineteenth, Ohio State
twenty first, Indiana sixteenth, Xavier with enough votes to finish
twenty ninth. Sean Miller showed tonight at seven on fifty

(28:41):
five KRC. The Ohio State Buckeyes do play Youngstown State.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
Good tomorrow night, very good, Champions Classic.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Great event. It's opening night at college basketball.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
YEP, officially, every North Carolina was a good one. Houston
Auburn with the fight on the plane and turning it around.
You know, I just what a win that was for Auburn.
I watched Houston the other night and I was shock
mo because I was like, these guys have all been
here like nine years. Yeah, it's like the same team
that's run back again. You see up to seventeen. But yes,

(29:13):
the official start of the college basketball season for me
tomorrow as well.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
You mentioned a lot of different things that went down
during the game. The Chase Brown fumble just turned the game.
What they did on defense, Joe Burrow took way too
many hits. You might argue he threw it way too
many times. We've all seen.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
They were credited with what three sacks and thirteen hits?
More than three and it felt way more than that.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, we've all seen the Pro Football Focus tweets Cordell
Volson is dead last and pressures allowed among qualified guards
at his position Alex Kapa, third from last.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Those guys aren't good. Yep.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
And you know you could say, well, Matt Lee should
play let him play center. That's fine. But the offensive line,
I think we all agree with Marius Mims is the
right tackle of the future. Great. Beyond that, it's turned
into a unit that there's way too many weak links,
or at least feels like they're Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Pro Football Focus labeled the Ravens defense Thursday night. They
credited them with forty pressures. And again, it's even more
remarkable the stat line that Joe.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Burrow throws up.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yeah, because I never felt like he even had a
chance to get comfortable in the pocket, and he did that.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
It felt frenetic, Yeah, all night long and he still
did that.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, what could he have done if he had a
little more protection.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
I mean it felt like and I watched a decent
amount of amount of it again on Saturday morning. It
felt like he was improvising on nearly every being forced
to improvise on nearly every single play. Yeah, which speaks
to his genius because he was that good, But it
also speaks to an offense, to an offensive line that
had no prayer on Thursday.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, you know, the the old line I thought early
in the year was gonna be much improved, And as
each game has passed, it feels like we're inching back
to what they've been the last couple of years, which
to me and I know we've had this conversation about
running back. Last night, I sat down for Sunday Night
Football and I watched Joe Mixon and I'm like, twenty

(31:16):
five carries. Good in the passing game, good in the
running game, been good all year in the running game,
picking up blitz is on third down. But I was
told he couldn't do that in Cincinnati. And then Zach
Moss graded out extremely high last year, came into Cincinnati
and everyone's like, Zack Moss stinks. Okay, what about these
offensive linemen, you know, Keras and Kappa, super Bowl pedigree,

(31:38):
Marius Like that to me is the worry. It feels
like he got one in a Marius Mims. We've not
seen much development at that position. I don't want to
wait around to see if they can develop them properly. Yeah,
let's make sure we got that short it out.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
And so the thing is, like you talk about like
off season needs. They're gonna have to address that in
free agency, but probably not with the very best guys.
Look on the offensive line, we all acknowledge coming into
the year, the ceiling is low, right, we've done that
with the defense. Well, they've just got to be league average.
Like we all went in going okay, the Bengals' best
version of their offensive line is probably still only okay. Well,

(32:14):
when you have a low ceiling, yeah, usually you have
a low floor. Can I do one thing on Joe Mixon?
So it kind of got washed away because I think
on the very next play is the one where CJ.
Stroud let a wide receiver stand there by himself, took
forever and throws a pick. But right before that they
convert a third down, and Collinsworth points this out where
Joe Mixon, in the most textbook manner possible runs and

(32:37):
plugs a hole and picks up a pass rusher, and
it's it's perfect, It's perfect. It's what you would show
a young running back about how to pick up the
blitz or block an oncoming rusher.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
What I was told was do that.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
He can't do that? Why could he not do? And
I know it's just one instance, why could he not
do that here? But what I want look like exactly
how you're supposed to coach it.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
But we've also seen that it like Gino Stone was
awesome last year. Seven picks, Oh, he's been terrible.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Free agency class has been it's.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Been bad, but awful. They're all players that people viewed
as good players. Sure, so is it the players just stink?
Is it the system? Is it the development? Is it
the coaching? Yes, it's gotta be something like us. We
mentioned the quarterback hits right now, Joe Burrow is one
of the quickest in the NFL at trying to get
the ball out of his hands. So it's not like

(33:32):
Anthony Richardson back there holding the ball, holding the ball,
holding the ball, taking unnecessary hits. They're making it a
point to try to get it out of his hands
quick and he's still was pressured on forty dropbacks.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
That is a we sid to use the word of greed.
That's egregious.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
No, if you if you watch Thursday night, it looked
like in terms of Joe being under pressure, it looked
like the twenty twenty one playoffs that the twenty twenty
one playoff is the best I've ever seen at a
team winning in spite of its offensive line. But at
the end of the twenty twenty one playoffs, we all
agree they need to move on and some of those

(34:10):
dudes never play in the NFL again. Yep, they came
out of that offseason with four new starting offensive linemen
in a game in prime time against the division foe
that we labeled as must win because of its division implications.
Your offensive line play reminded us of the twenty twenty
one playoffs. But that ain't good.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
But the problem is, instead of here's what I want
after the game, our offensive line was bad tonight. They've
got to play better. Zach Taylor's quote after the game
about Joe Burrow's hits was this, it's a talented defense.
When you throw the ball that many times, it's gonna happen.
What No, Like, That's no, that's not the answer I won.
The answer I won is, no matter how many times

(34:51):
our quarterback drops back, he needs to be protected. He
went on to say, Joe does a great job of
buying time until the end to give his receivers a chance.
So often, probably some of those hits come on a
huge completion because he waits till the last second to
take the hit. It is going to unfortunately reflect negatively
on the old line, when in reality, Joe's just hanging
in there and making plays versus the right coverage and

(35:13):
giving Jamar and those guys.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
A chance to win.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
That that's not what I see when I watch that all.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
And in a game, here's my thing.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
In a game where he got sacked three times and
he got hit thirteen more and he got pressured on
forty dropbacks, what I don't want to hear is, well,
that's more on Joe. He's got to do it, like
Joe's taking some of these hits because he's holding the
ball too long, or Joe's we gotta get it out
like no, because the stats say that they are getting
the ball out quick, so the stats don't match that.

(35:44):
What is wrong with saying our old line wasn't good
enough tonight? We need to do better. Joe can't get
hit that much, that's on us. What is wrong with
that quote? Instead, it's like he's trying to make excuses
for the line, and in doing so in a roundabout
way of saying, that's kind of on Joe.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Yeah, that's insane to me. That's insane.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
You know, we've we've talked about truth serum at all.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
Oh oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
If you gave jos and truth serum to that and
asked him, how do you feel about your offensive line play?
And how do you feel about your offensive line play
and what your coach had to say about it? I
think the answer would be interesting. Six away from four o'clock,
we have two more hours to go. Tony Moo Football
Show Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station Talton Down.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from
Twin Peaks, brought to you in part by Encore Technlochies
visit OnCore Dot Tech pen Station, East Coast Subs Penn Station.
It's all in good taste Honda East Cincinnati's Ultimate Hondi Experience,
First State Bank Guilt on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio.
Just off I seventy one X and fifty inside the

(36:59):
Holiday at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri State
Chevy Dealers, Chevrolet the number one selling Brandon Cincinnati for
the past eight years. Chevrolet Together, Let's drive on the
official home of the Bengal Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Our number two of the Tony and Mo Football Show
at Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty. I
hope you're having an awesome Monday afternoon. Happy Veterans Day,
Mallegar with Tony Pike. Twin Peaks in Florence, very very
very easy to get to, very close to I seventy five.
A great place to watch Monday Night football tonight, a
great place to watch UK and Duke tomorrow, and a

(37:38):
great place to have a cold one after work. We
are here until six o'clock.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
We got gift card.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
We have oh yeah, tryer guy, Bobby's got gift cards.
We will be back in Westchester next week, yes, and
then the week after that, and then come back here
to Twin Peaks in Florence at the end of the month.
Bengals lose, we'll get to the Bevercats a little bit
later on this hour. We'll hear from Zach Taylor right
around five thirty.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
What's the complete opposite of a victory Monday? I mean from.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Thursday misery Monday to the Bearcats to FC Cincinnati. Yeah,
Daniel Skillings didn't play that night because he's banged up.
Was it wasn't what he is the opposite of a
victory Monday, because we are at the complete other end
of the spectrum right now.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Kind of our I tried, I tried to talk about.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
Man, I was showing, we started to show.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
It was like I was losing.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
I'm trying, okay, but like I feel a couple of
days off, You're just.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I feel like when the Bengals lost to the Commanders,
there was this rush to be the first to say
season's over. I did not participate in that rush. I
feel like after the Bengals lost to the Ravens the
first time, there was this rush to be the loudest
and most emphatic to say season's over. I didn't participate.

(38:52):
I feel like late on Thursday night there was a
rush to be the loudest to say seasons pretty much over.
I'm not doing that either. Look let me just ask
you this.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Okay, I did this all year with the I mean
your season at it. We did it through the Reds
all season, and I.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Mean we said this an hour ago. You're right, we
are gonna get to a point where if they keep
can't keep not winning.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, but there's also a.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Part of me that like, if I'm a Bills fan,
oh my goodness, my team's got the two seed right now.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I might have to play the Bengals as a seven
seed now Green Bay one on the road as a
seven seed last year, I would still argue there's never
been a seven seed like the Bengals would be with
Joe Burrow in that offense. If I'm the Bills and
I've watched that quarterback come into my building and winning
the postseason before, I want nothing to do with that.
If I'm the Ravens, I've given up seventy two points

(39:46):
of that team that is two plays away from beating US,
I don't want to try a third time. If I'm
Kansas City right now, obviously still undefeated, yeah, they wouldn't
play in Round one if they hold on to the
top seed.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Took a miracle fourth down penalty.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
I don't want that team coming to Arrowhead Stadium. So
I guess there's two different ways of looking at it.
It's the difficulty in getting there, and it's the frustration
with looking at this team right now and they're currently
tied for eighth in the AFC, but there's also size
up their immediate competition and if they can get there,
you cannot convince me this team's an easy out in

(40:24):
the postseason.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Well, I think Sunday Night is the test because of
what this Chargers defense possesses and how they can keep
the ball away. Yeah, thirteen points per game, giving up
tops in the NFL. You know, if there's a game
that's gonna say, okay, can the offense really do it
against anyone? It's this And now we've talked all year
about the margin. Well, now you have no margin of

(40:46):
are if you're the offense you can't have another off
game going forward because it probably means your season's done.
So I guess to your optimism, I jump on board with.
I also find myself mad sure that the deadline came
and gone and nothing was done. Like you can't, oh

(41:09):
my goodness, but you can't pitch to me. You can't
pitch to me that the rosters good enough, we're a
super Bowl caliber team. And then we did put that
waiver claim in on in Gacway and the Patriots beat it.
You know, they get the right, which okay, but then
today you can't work out Zabian Howard and Leonard Fournette
and still tell me that the roster is good enough.

(41:31):
So my question would be, since this does become a
week to week thing and this team has yet to
beat anybody good on the season, if they do beat
the Chargers, it gives you confidence. But is your confidence
in this team a team that can go win a
Super Bowl right now is currently constructed? And if the
answer is no, then what they have failed to do

(41:52):
over the last couple of weeks and make this team
a contender is magnified even more.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, there's no question.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
No one watched that game. I don't care who you are.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
If you're a Bengal fan, a Raven fan, if you're
a fan of the NFL any other team, no one
watching on Thursday night and question the Bengals offense. No,
you could question, you know, T Higgins' health, what's that
gonna look like? Sure, no one's gonna argue that that
team can't beat anybody on any given night? Can the defense?
And if you're answer to that, I don't know. They're

(42:22):
gonna have to score this many points?

Speaker 4 (42:24):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, well then you sat by and didn't try to
make the defense better. We've seen additions already help. Mike
Williams had a huge touchdown for the Steelers. Yes, nay,
I'd be willing to say at some point, Preston Smith
will have a big sack or a big play and
you gave up nothing for it. And that's the thing
that it comes down to for me. DeAndre Hopkins has

(42:45):
already had impactful moments with his new team. The Commanders
went like teams, chose to go all in, and as
you and I mentioned last week, there wasn't a deal
that got done outside of what the Cowboys gave up
for Mingo, where you're like, what, that's all they gave up.
And the Bengals didn't do anything nothing, But they tried.
They were making calls, they were active, but they clearly.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Weren't that it doesn't matter. I tried.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
So they just missed on a gokway And these guys
today really didn't. They couldn't get to a deal with
Howard and they didn't want to give up too much
at the trade deadline.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
All I'm hearing is, well, they're trying. How hard are
we trying?

Speaker 2 (43:22):
But you know, you're trying to stop a tidal wave
that started with the inability to draft on defense successfully
and then the inability to fill holes in free agency
on defense. I mean, Sheldon Rankins has not worked out,
Geno Stone has not worked out. What they have tried
to do on defense this offseason in both free agency
and the draft has not worked out. So yeah, on
one hand, you can justifiably criticize them for what they

(43:45):
haven't done during the season, but that's been necessitated by
an inability to fill Jesse Bates role. You can get
mad at us for keep coming back to it, but
but you go back to it.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
And that's the problem I go back to is that
Jesse Bates walked and we all said why, and it
was you can't pay Jesse and then pay Tea in Jamaar, right,
And now here we are and this is the big
window because te'se a Bengal and next year they're not
going to be able to pay Tea and Jamar. Yeah,
So that's the that's the issue that I think so

(44:18):
many Bengals fans come across.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
And it's also not just letting Jesse walk. It's the
plan to replace him.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
Not working and watching him dominate.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, So it's it's not fixing a bad defense. But
equally as maddening is having a bad defense because of
who you've let walk, the inability to replace the players
that the the inability to draft well on defense, and
the swings and missus and free agency on defense, and

(44:45):
so what happens now you're refreshing Twitter, hoping they sign
Xavion Howard.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
You're and then you're refresh it and it's they couldn't
come up.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
So all of these things add up to a defense
that is not championship worthy and to a team that's
wasting greatness. And this is the most frustrating thing to me.
I said this during Quick Hits with Austin as a
Reds fan. It bothers me to this day. They wasted
Joey Vada eighteen years, a Hall of Fame career, best hitter.

(45:19):
I've ever seen them have wasted it. Never advanced in
the postseason. That's not his fault. Joe Burrow is statistically
having a better season this year than when he was
a finalist to be MVP. Jamar Chase leads the league
in receptions, receiving yards, and touchdown receptions the triple Crown.

(45:41):
Trey Hendrickson is having an unbelievably good season, could be
in the conversation to be the defensive player of the year.
They're four and six. It bothers me to no end
to watch a team waste greatness. And if it bothers me,
you don't think it bothers the people who are achieving greatness,

(46:01):
Joe and Jamar.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
And in the locker the whole locker room, Like, do
you think do you think the locker room's watching last night? MacMahon,
Joe Rixon, Joe Mixon's running the ball well or Joe's
sitting back. He looks good picking up Blitz is there?
He's a weapon in the passing game. You think they
watch what Jesse Bates does. Do you think they watched
DJ Reader say, may have missed that guy, Cheeto? We

(46:25):
missed Cheeto. Jame Taylor, BRIT's not the guy they have
just it's it's remarkable how the major decisions they've made,
outside of the ones that were not draft Joe Burrow
and draft Jamar Chase have gone wrong for this team
In recent years. Anyone was drafting Joe pretty much anyone
was drafting Jamar.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
And when they got it right on defense, it was
we could just throw unlimited mets of money at the defense.
It doesn't work that way now, No, Now you have
to you have to make smart, calculated decisions. And look,
I was on board with Gino Stone. It hasn't worked out.
I don't blame them for trying to sign him. But
you know, it's been a series of things they've done
in terms of player acquisition, specifically on defense that has

(47:08):
put them in a position where now you've got to
go get someone at the deadline, and when you don't,
it's now magnified.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
And it also comes back and says, Okay, the thought
of the offense is just going to be so good
it doesn't matter on defense is flawed, right, because the
offense is fantastic and they're losing games the two games
they've lost to Baltimore, Like, there's no way offenses should
lose that game. There's no way Joe Burrow in a

(47:36):
two game stretch should put up those stat lines and
be oh and two against the Baltimore Ravens. And DeMar
Chase should be going to this year against the Baltimore
Ravens with everything that they've done. But to me, that's
the worrisome side of saying it doesn't matter how good
they are. They've got the NFL sack leader, Triple Crown
and receiver best quarterback right now and they're four and six.

(47:59):
How are other teams doing it? Scheme, coaching, development, signing
the right players. There are people out there that don't
like Colin Cowhard or Kelin Coward made a point last
Thursday before the Bengals and the Ravens and said, look
at what the two teams have done around their quarterback.
The Ravens run heavy system. When they thought Lamar was ready,

(48:22):
got Todd Mounkin, upgraded, drafted a center, and Tyler Linderbaum
re signed Ronnie Stanley, built weapons around Lamar. Jackson went
out and got Deontay Johnson, drafted Zay Flowers, drafted Isaiah Likely,
re signed Hardball to an extension. They have done everything
to build around and so much of the Bengals right

(48:43):
now is.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Joe's gotta be great. And if Joe's not, like would
would you be saying?

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Would you if I told you that on Sunday night,
Joe's gonna go eighteen of thirty five a bucks, seventy
one touchdown and two picks? Can they win a game
like that? Can the Ravens, Yes, yes, can the Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I'm watching right now the highlight of the game, mistery
Patrick Mahomes, He's been all full pedestrian season. Joe Burrow
has been a thousand times better than him. The Kansas
City Chiefs can figure out ways to win games when
their quarterback isn't great, and you know he still has
great moments in them. You know, even when he's not
as best statistically, it's there. You know, if that team

(49:24):
is the last one standing, Patrick Mahomes is going to
have a lot to say about it. But they no
longer say to Patrick, carry us, lift us.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
When it's come down to it. This year, have the Ravens,
the Bills, the Chiefs are put in any other contender.
Have they looked at a player and said, ah, that's
too much to give up draft picks for it. They
all have made acquisitions that have immediately helped their team.
Amari Cooper will keep helping Buffalo. DeAndre Hopkins has already

(49:54):
paid worth his weight in gold, and now all of
a sudden, with Hopkins there, Travis Kelsey is starting to
get going. Isaiah Pacheco is gonna get healthy. The top
teams the teams that we're talking about getting after they
all sat back at the deadline and said, there's a
significant need here and we're more than willing to give
up a fifth or a six round pick. The Bengals didn't.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
And now, as you said, now they're working on Xavier Howard,
No Benard Fournette. That's the answer. Oh man, we almost
got lucky with Yannick and Gokway get lucky in the preseason.
Go make a move for a guy like that, or
call teams like a Chase Young who everyone said, and
bring them him in and give up a six round pick.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
The Bengals chose not to. They chose to to.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Buckle down and say we're just gonna have Joe and
Jamar be great. And they have been, and they're four
and six.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
It's twenty one minutes after four o'clock. He's Tony Pike
on Maleger We're a Twin Peaks and Florence Tony and
Moe Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Station Cincinnati is Football Illnetti brought to you in bart
by Modern Opus Methods. On the official home of the Bengals,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Tony Remote football, So Twin Peaks in Lawrence. We are
here till six o'clock. We'll do some college football coming
up in a bit. Zach Taylor's press conference will have
it for you right around five thirty five. We often
do an AFC North segment. Bengals played an AFC North
team on Thursday. The Browns didn't play this week. The

(51:33):
Steelers did. Yeah, great game in Washington. They beat the Commanders.
They're now seven and two.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Yeah, and the way they did it was not the
recipe I would have thought of. How they beat them
by scoring over thirty points. Right, I'm thinking that they're
going to be Washington. It's a rookie quarterback. That Steeler
defense is going to get after him, make things really hard.
I thought Jayden Daniels played really well in the game.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Agreed.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
But I look at that game and now I look
back at the decision when Mike Tomlin benched justin fields
and people are like, ah. I watched Russell Wilson yesterday,
and I watched the addition of Mike Williams, and I
know we've we've talked about the Steelers in the same
context all year. It's early their schedule gets harder. Well,
their schedules already starting to get harder, and they're still

(52:17):
winning games. Yeah, they're seven and two. They went to
Washington and beat a good Commanders team on the road
when their defense didn't play their best.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
They get better.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Mike Tomlin gets the most out of these guys, and
it's it's remarkable.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
They're a fourth down walk off play against the Cowboys
from being eight and one.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
I still feel like there's a reluctance to group them
in there.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Yeah, and I understand why the offense Kansas City, Buffalo
and Baltimore. Yeah, I just I can't. I can't wrap
my mind around how they're seven to two.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
They have a Hall of Fame coach, a terrific defense,
a quality.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Roster yeah, and a quarterback and they're developing. Yeah, like
players that they've drafted or brought in. You see how
they fit. Like we talked about it last week a
little bit leading into the Baltimore game. While Justice Hill
just fits perfectly from a roster standpoint, Pittsburg has a
lot of pieces like that. When you look, it's like

(53:22):
they just fit together. And the draft picks that you
hear about you see him like they're getting better. You know,
Patrick Queen comes over and was kind of an afterthought
in Baltimore. Now he's all over the field.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
TJ.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Watt is still ridiculous. Mike Williams makes the catch last night.
Think what you want about his antics. George Pickens is
a weapon, and Warren and Harris are a good one
two punch at running back. Yeah, and they're just going to.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Keep getting better offensively as Wilson gets more into the system.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
You know, that game, if you think about it, Warren
had the fumble near the goal line and then they
they had the fake punt where you know, they had
the personal protector down field. If that gets completed, like
that game was a little bit closer than it maybe
should have been because Pittsburgh gave some stuff away.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Do you think there's any chance if Washington doesn't jump
that they would still go.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
For that fourth down? Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
The way the way Smith was on the sideline and
knowing how Tomlin coaches, it just felt like that was
gonna be all right, let's try this and then screw
we gotta get a yard.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, but they get what is basically a walk off.
Neutrals one infraction unreal, But I think they were gonna
run a play. I don't think that was I think
they obviously wanted to see if they can get the
guy to jump off side. But I think, okay, plan B,
we're gonna run it down, We're gonna call something here.
I think they were going for it. Yeah, that's a
tough feeling, man.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
Some fourth games, some fourth downs can lose games.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
What was interesting is like as it unfolded in real time,
you could almost sense it, like you could all just
it just.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Was hard because it's like you're taught that and told
that all the time, but you could feel watching it.
How much tension is on that play because if we're
thinking it, they're thinking it too. Are they really going
to go for this? Yeah, and he's so good at
the at the hard count gets him to jump. But man,
that's a Again, how many games have we talked about
are there for the taking and the Bengals don't find

(55:16):
a way to win. The Steelers are finding a way
to win those games.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Uh, he's two wins away from clinching another non losing season.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
We thought this was going to be the year, like
this is gonna be the year where they don't do it,
and here we are. It's just it's remarkable what they're doing.
But really, there's I mean, there's teams across the NFL
that are either surprising in a good way or the
negative way.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
You know.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
I think the Arizona Cardinals are a team that are
surprising a lot of people to the offensively, Yeah, they're fun.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
And what the Jets.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
I don't know what the Jets were doing yesterday against them,
but not competitive, but it's I am.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
I have fun watching them. I have fun watching the
Rams who play tonight.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Let's just I have fun watching the Lions. And we
were talking about this off air. The Jared Goff five
interceptions were kind of inflated. There was a hell married
there was a fluky interception there.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
But you know, in games he's thrown four more interceptions.
He's never lost. He's like six and oho.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Yeah, so they're down sixteen points on the road against
a good Houston team. Goff has turned it over five
times and they come back and win.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
And and the timing too.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
He's getting interviewed coming out of the half and they
play He's like, we got to get a turnover. It's
like both pick Yeah, there's not a team in the
NFL that plays to their head coaches characteristic more than Detroit.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
No, And like there were a couple of times if
you watched that game last night and collins Worth made
allusions to it, that you could just it's hard to
measure by statistics. You have to watch where you could
feel the games starting to shift. But like, I watched
that last night and it's like, all right, Jared Goff
was a liability for much of the night last night.

(56:52):
They still go on the road, figure it out against
a good team when they were down by sixteen points.
The Bengals can't win a game where Joe Burrow a liability.
Now he rarely is, but like you look at these
last seven.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Games, but he wasn't good against the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
It wasn't good against Patriots. The chances when the game right.
So moving forward, if Joe has a bad game, if
Joe has a couple of flukey picks, if Joe's a
bit of a liability, is this team good enough to win?
With the Detroit Lions last night, the answer was yes.
With the Kansas City Chiefs this year, the answer is yes.
And you might get mad at me for bringing up
two teams that are at the top of their two
respective conferences. But that's where we talked about the Bengals

(57:28):
being before the season started.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Correct, That's who you were throwing them in. Who you
were clustering them in with. It is it's remarkable to watch.
I saw the stat last week the Lions opponents the
week after playing the Lions have only won once this year.
It was the Titans. They impose a physicality on the game.
There is we often talk about, you know, what's the
what's the identity of the Bengals?

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Who are they? You know what?

Speaker 3 (57:55):
You know that with the Lions, you know that with
the Steelers, you know with the Kansas City Chiefs, you
don't know that. With the Bengals, their identity is Burrow
has to be amazing, Chase has to be amazing.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
And hopefully that's enough to win.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Hopefully.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
That's a crazy thing.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Oh, that's the thing. It's the organizational identity of so
many of these teams is very well established. It's established
with Baltimore, It's established with Pittsburgh. I think it's established
with Kansas City. And it's more than just Patrick Mahomes.
It's established with the Detroit Lions, who.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Say what you want about him. You know who the
Eagles are. They're gonna be the same team every week.
Right what they did to Dallas yesterday. The Bills are
finding that new identity without Stefan Diggs, and it's a
lot more Josh Allen. It's a lot more of the
run game. But there are teams across the league that
have that as odd as it is. The team the
Bengals will play Sunday Night has it. It's take the

(58:48):
air out of the ball and play really good defense.
That's what the Chargers have done really well, and JK.
Dobbins has been fantastic all of a sudden, justin Herbert's
gaining more confidence on an offense, Quinton Johnson, who seemed
like a bust, is now making plays up and down
the field. You get to this point in the year,
teams are trending in different directions. You're either getting better
or you're being left And the Bengals are like, it's

(59:11):
weird because they're trying to hold it together where other
teams are scaling ahead and other teams are falling far behind.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Unfortunately, Brendan Soursby was a liability on Saturday and we
have to talk about him and the Bearricats when we
come back. Tony and Mo Football Show Twin Peaks in
Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
You've been listening to football in Thennetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty. ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Nineteen. Away from five o'clock sports headlines and service to
Kelsey Shevard Line, home of lifetime power training, protection and
guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life
kelsychev dot com. Bengals have made it official. You can
go down to cook Sporting Goods or the Pro Shop
and get your Gary Brightwell Jersey. Bengals have signed the
running back to the practice squad. Fourth year player from Arizona.

(01:00:07):
Originally take it by the Giants in the sixth round
of the twenty twenty one draft. He has played in
thirty nine games for New York and Cleveland, two with
the Browns this year, forty one career rushing attempts for
one hundred and sixty four yards and a touchdown. He
has also caught eleven passes for ninety two yards, and
he has returned twenty eight kickoffs. First little weapon, Gary Brightwell.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Will you get black orange? White?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I'm probably gonna go white. Yeah, because he'll be here
next year. I'll need it for the white Bengal game.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
Right, right, makes sense? Yeah, makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Bengals apparently made a contract offer to Xavier Howard after
he worked out today and couldn't agree to terms. Leonard
four networked out today, among others that according to NFL Networks,
Mike Rofflow Monday Night Football Tonight, Rams and Dolphins on
ESPN fifteen thirty College Hoops, you see seventeenth in the
AP Top two twenty five men's poll, Kentucky nineteenth, Ohio

(01:01:03):
State twenty first, Indiana sixteenth, Xavier with enough votes to
finish twenty ninth. Sean Miller showed tonight at seven on
fifty five KRC. The bear Cat loss on Saturday. Cincinnati's
defense played fine, Yeah, did a good job against a
good running team, got off to a seven nothing start.

(01:01:25):
As not lucky enough to be there, had a family
wedding and so I couldn't attend the game at Nippert Stadium,
but I watched live the first half and when Brendan
Soresby threw that pick six on a ball that he
shouldn't have thrown. Yeah, you could just feel it, and
you could just you could feel the air coming out
of the balloon to the degree that you thought they're

(01:01:48):
going to be losing by a fair amount of points
before they get the air back into it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Yeah, you know, I went back and I looked up
last year's game against West Virginia. Ran for over four
to twenty nine yards of carry smoked and then you
see comes out and they defer, and it couldn't have
gone better. You get a three and out, you get
the ball and you go right down the field and
score six plus minute drive and then you get another
stop and you're driving the field. It's already the second quarter. Yeah,

(01:02:17):
you're eating up the game. It's going as well as
you can. Soresby was in a good rhythm and on
fourth in inches and I'm not faulting going for it,
I know for inches at all. What I am faulting
is getting a little bit too cute. Corey Kiner is
one of the best in the country at making something
out of nothing. I'm putting a good amount of money
that he's gonna get you a couple of inches. They

(01:02:40):
try to get cute, and it's the old saying as
a quarterback, don't make a bad play worse.

Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
And I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
You know you're about to turn the ball over. In
your mind, you're not thinking pick six. In your mind,
you're thinking, I gotta do something. I can't just go
down here. And you make one of the worst plays imaginable.
And I set it on the sideline because I'm watching
the players run off the field. Corey Kiner had just
sprinted down the field. All linemen, Brendan Soorersby, these guys

(01:03:06):
are huffing and puffing, and you get the ball right
back and on third down you scramble with Sowersby. He
gets the first down, ball gets knocked out to the
defensive credit. They bowed up, gave up a field goal.
You still feel good about stuff? How about the last
backwards past. I get you're trying to make something happen again,

(01:03:30):
But it's first and ten. You're down three. Either burn it,
throw it into the ground, or take the sack.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I mean, I really like Brendan Sores. I like everything
about his intangibles, and he's done a lot of really
good things with his raw talent. Yep, that is a
game where you out gained him by nearly two hundred yards,
You had fifteen more first downs. Your defense, which was
a huge question mark coming into the seat, so did

(01:03:57):
everything you could ask it to do. I hate to
make any loss about one guy, but that one's on Brendan.
But I hate to say that. You know you and
I think he would be the first to admit that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
And it's it's hard because when the fumble for a
touchdown came, now the Bearcats had the momentum back West
Virginia's on their heels. You get the interception of the
end zone, Pryor has another unbelievable game changing play, which
he seems to do every week, and then you gave
it all right back, I have. I don't know that
I've remembered being on a team, a part of a team,

(01:04:31):
or covering a team that handles big moments worse in responding.
How many times have they failed to end a half properly?
And it's crushed him. And you could throw Saturday on
that as well, sure, because they didn't recover till after
the half, right it was it was this ongoing search

(01:04:52):
of nothing, and I've been there before.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
I know, as a quarterback, when a couple things go
against you, there's this fog that can start and I'm
just on the sideline. Fin gotta get easy completions, gotta
find something that that gets the mindset checked back in
and it Shortsby wasn't himself for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Yeah, you were talking about that on the broadcast.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
I was listening and you were talking about, like, what
what can't happen here? Is you start the drive with
the incompletion second long run. Yeah, and it's third and
long and right back out there and we almost do
a pick again. I just I think two things. One,
they handle adversity poorly. It takes them forever. The sidelines
were dead and it was seven to seven. You can

(01:05:37):
feel it, like all right, just bounce right back up TV.
You could feel that they don't handle the adversity well.
And for the life of me from playing the position,
I don't know how you don't target Joe Royer Moore
every single game. I feel like I'm having the same
conversation because I don't know mo when they've thrown the
ball to Royer that things don't go well for them

(01:06:00):
in every game.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Especially when your quarterback is in this fog. That's the
easiest completion you could make. Allow Joe Royal, with a
huge catch radius and a big body to win a
one on one matchup and find a way to get
him the ball and see yourself in a second.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
Three.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
I just I don't think he's targeted enough. I think
he's an NFL tight end. I think he's a guy
that just doesn't make a roster in the NFL. I
think he can contribute in the NFL at the tight
end position, and I feel like there's times where he's
being wasted.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
So a couple of weeks ago, the Bearcats go to
Colorado and we felt pretty good. Right, they're five and two. Yeah,
we felt like, all right, you know what, that's a
winnable game. This season could be one where you know what,
they can end up with.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
Eight yeah, maybe nine wins.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
They after the game at home that they won for
the first time, Scott Saderfield talked about a path to
the Big twelve time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
That was after Arizona State, and now you've got to
go in the road and play Iowa State, which is
it's a winnable game, but not going to be easy.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
Nine point dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Right, You've got to go on the road and play
Kansas State, and then last game of the season's home
for TCU.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Who, by the way, does things offensively that the Bearcats
don't defend well defensively.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
I just now the way it's trending, you've got to
win two out of three to get to seven and five.
Beyond that, shin at five.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
If you're holding a Bearcats five and a half overticket
right now as I am, you're sweating.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
So when they're five and two, we all agreed six
and six is not good enough, you do recalibrate your expectations.
If they end up six and six, that's not going
to feel like a success. And if they're five and
six going into that last game of the season and
you've got to beat that team just to get to

(01:07:52):
ball eligibility and save some face after starting five and two,
I don't like that proposition.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
No, Look, they're gonna be I think there'll be more
of a dog against Kansas State than Iowa State.

Speaker 4 (01:08:04):
Agree.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
And if you look at TCU right now, moy they
got blown out by SMU, but then they have beaten
Kansas U, Tall Texas Tech, and just came off of
thirty eight thirteen win over Oklahoma State. They have a
bye this week, They're gonna play Arizona. In all likelihood,

(01:08:26):
TCU will come to Cincinnati at seven and four, and
there's a realistic path based on Vegas, that the Bearcats
will come home to play that team at five and six.
I couldn't even begin to describe the pressure that would
be leading into that game for Bowl eligibility and for

(01:08:48):
Scott Ciderfield as well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Well, I mean, can you.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
The coach isn't the most popular call it what it is, right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
You and I have talked about some of the really
good things that have happened this season, But at the
end of the days, it's a coach that is still
I don't know that he's won the people over that
were skeptical that he was the guy when he got
the job. Not only do you fail to win those
people over, but the folks that he had are going
to start to go away. If this really starts to snowball.

(01:09:20):
If you end the season with five consecutive losses yep,
and miss the ball and miss a bowl game after
starting five and two, good luck.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
Yep, I mean, legitimately, good luck and the more worrisome
part to me is good luck. Good luck also going
and raising a bunch of money to rebuild the roster
in the Nile world, because you know what, these donors
and people that are handing out money won results well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
And not only that, like they're not firing Scott Sadderfield,
but if he goes in the next season coming off
a year where thing's totally unraveled at the end of
the year, he's going to be one of those coaches
right or wrong, written about as being on the hot seat.
You don't think that's going to be used against him
and this staff and recruiting next year when they go
into the portal.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
And again like for them, I don't The Texas Tech
was a tough game to learning experience Colorado. We talked
about it off break. Colorado is a good football team.
The Pittsburgh lost looms huge because you're up twenty one
late in the third quarter.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
If you'd just gotten that, that's not a very good
West Virginia team.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
Tone, No, that's what I mean, Like pitt in West Virginia. Yeah,
those should be two wins.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
You see how played them.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
There's not There wasn't one time on Saturday where I
looked and said, man, this this is a good team
like last year.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
You see is the you see has a better team
than we was.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Yes, last year West Virginia lined up and I said
they're better without question. Yes, there wasn't a time Saturday
I said this team is better than you see.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
You give them a chance against Iowa was dater Kansas State.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Yes, I would give them more of a chance. To me,
it's it's the Iowa State game you got to get. Yeah,
I don't think familiarity with the of course, well there's familiarity.
And I look at what Kansas State with their quarterback
that does really well. I don't want to have to
come down to stopping him.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Iowa State gave up forty five on the road to
Kansas Yeaday.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
Look, Iowa State came from behind to beat UCF by three.
We saw that UCF team UF was better that date.
Texas Tech got beat by Iowa or Texas Tech beat
Iowa State. Kansas dominated Iowa State. They have not played
well down the stretch. I for me, you gotta get
this one because I think I think the points bread

(01:11:36):
is bigger against Kansas State. Kansas State matchup wise, I'm
not so sure that defensively this is your best opportunity because,
like I said, TCU will throw it fifty times and
I don't like that against UC second gases.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
I wonder about emotionally, you know, you talk about how
fragile the team has seemed in games. I wonder how
fragile it is now. And I wonder how much of
that fragility, so to speak, gets enhanced if you lose
another one, and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
If you're now out of the Big twelve race.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
Yeah, and bowls, but now it starts, the pressure starts
to add and you start to play a little tighter.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
H that again.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Then you start we had just beat West Virginia and
just beat Pittsburgh. Yeah, it's a bunch of what ifs.
We were playing that game with Cincinnati Bengos right now
and just beat the Patriots. They had just beat uh,
you know, Baltimore in round one. Too many what ifs.
And for what I thought at the time, five and two,
I felt great, we had a conversation, felt great. Seven yeah,

(01:12:33):
maybe eight.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Now it is in my opinion, those five and a
half over ticket holders are are nervous.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
I am in that regard. I am very nervous. I
felt great a few weeks ago, now not so much.
Six away from five o'clock Tony and Moo Football Show,
Twin Peaks in Florence, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hey,
it's Mo Wagger.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
There's only part on gore Tech nowt Chies visit on
gourge Don Tech N Station East Ghost subspends. It's all
in good taste. Honda East, Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience. First
State Bank built on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio.
Just off I seventy one X and fifty inside the
Holiday and at the Roberts Center and by your Tri

(01:13:14):
State Chevy Dealers. Chevrolet the number one selling brand in
Cincinnati for the past eight years. Chevrolet Together, Let's drive
on the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Six After five ESPN fifteen thirty onm Oeggor with Tony Pike.
Its the Toni and Moo Football Show, broadcasting from Twin
Peaks in Florence. We are here until six o'clock back
in Westchester next Monday day, after the Bengals take on
the Los Angeles Chargers. First things first, we're cleaning up
the residue, if you will, from Thursday night's heartbreaking, gut

(01:13:50):
punch loss to the Baltimore Ravens in Baltimore, a loss
that saw the Bengals fall to four and six. But
we just keep kicking that can down the sidewalk, right, Hey,
must win? Yeah, maybe not a must win game, but
the Colts lost and the Bills lost, or the beat
the Bills beat the Colts and the Broncos loss, so hey,
you know, hey, they're only a game out. They play

(01:14:12):
the Broncos head to head. They're not that good. So
the Bengals could just right the ship against the Chargers.
Off we go, and this team will be the greatest
seven seed in the history of well, this playoff format,
which only goes back a few years.

Speaker 4 (01:14:24):
I'd like to beat a team over five hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
That'd be nice.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
And I'd like to get to five hundred and then
have those conversations. By the way, you look like as
we get set into the golden ow here, you look
like Ceedee Lamb trying to catch a pass in the
in the end zone. The sun is perfectly coming through
the window right now. It were like we have to
enjoy this because there will be a time a few
short weeks from here. Well, by the time we get

(01:14:48):
to the power Hour, it'll be dark at time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Yeah, my least favorite time of year.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
I took a knap yesterday and woke up at like
six forty five and it was pitch block And you
have that moment where it's like, how what day is it?

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
How long did I sleep? What time is it?

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
So my I watch all the one o'clock games yep, right,
And there's something fun about when the Bengals don't play.
Just sit back watch all the games. And it was
a really fun day of NFL games. And then the
four o'clock games get started. My daughter had a friend sleepover,
so I ran to go get Skyline YEA for them
smart and I come home and we're eating and now

(01:15:23):
I'm like, we're getting into the second half of the
four o'clock games, and my wife says to me, it
feels like it's ten thirty at night.

Speaker 4 (01:15:29):
Yep. And it did worst the worst.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
But you look like ceedee lamb right now trying to
navigate a pass at a billion dollar stadium.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Were you looking at Twitter? A few minutes ago, I
did not, so I guess Mike McCarthy's having a press
conference today and the sun is moving in and they
have a thing up in front of block to block
the glare. All Jerry World needs is curtains.

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
You imagine just building that stadium and you go into
a game and a guy can't see because of the sun.
Just rotate the stadium the other way.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Why we just get some curtains.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
Yeah, we make things harder than it needs to be.
This Bengals offense and defense at times, Yeah, makes things
harder than it needs to be. But uh, yeah, to
your original point, I'm good with the math. I'm good
with understanding. There's gonna be probably two playoff spots available
between the Colts, the Broncos, and the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:16:25):
Yeah, I know that any team.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
And if Cincinnati can go to Los Angeles and beat
the Chargers, the conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
And there are certainly not teams that would line up
wanting to choose the Bengals out of those teams to play.
But at the same time, we've not seen it yet.
We've seen it get close, but we've not seen this
team as currently constructed this year make the plays in
the biggest moments necessary to do so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
No, it's it's an argument.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
Are there pieces there? Yeah? Can they finish it?

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
I don't know. You you need to you know we
did this with the Reds. You need to hang your
hat on something that's not the other team's deficiencies.

Speaker 4 (01:17:06):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
You need to hat hang your hat on something you
can control. And I think the thing that is most
frustrating to me, and I'll roll through some of these
Joe Burrow stats here in a little bit. I hate
the idea of waste and greatness. Yeah, Like we simplify
the conversation when it comes to the NFL sometimes and
we make it just about the quarterback. And the quarterback
is obviously very important. Joe Burrow is doing everything you

(01:17:30):
could ever ask him to do, and it's not good enough.
And if that ends up being the case, somebody should
have to pay for that, because that's inexcusable.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
And you're hearing that in his voice now, and you're
seeing it when you watch him. It's one thing if
you listen, it's harder, but if you watch the press conference,
the body language, the body language is different. I mean,
there is a a frustration of I'm looking at my numbers,
looking at Jamar Chase's numbers, I know what Trey Hendrickson's
putting together? Or waste all of this? How can you

(01:18:02):
not look at that? And how again, if you're the
locker room and those players, are you not looking at
players this roster has previously held that are doing big
things in the NFL? Are you not looking at man
Mike Williams, Trade, deadline, acquisition, scoring like you have. That's
human nature. You're watching that play out in the locker room,

(01:18:23):
and at some point, as losing continues, it creates an animosity.
You saw it boil over in Dallas. Michaeh Parsons. I
wish the coaching staff wanted to win more than us.
We're putting more time in than the head coach. We're
wasting the career and the end of the career of
a Zach Martin and guys like that. It's being said
elsewhere because that's the natural progression of what happens to

(01:18:44):
a locker room that feels like they should win or
feels like they have the pieces but they aren't doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
Yeah, and then there's the Jamar Chase dynamic. Jamar Chase
on Thursday night was unbelievable. All right, yeah, no word,
I mean unbelievable. What's remarkable about Jamar Chases. I saw
someone on social media early on Friday morning say that's
one of the top two or three games they've ever
seen a wide receiver play.

Speaker 4 (01:19:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
What's remarkable about Jamar Chase is it's not the best
game I've seen him play. No, but and he was
unbelievably good. It's what he did and what he had
a chance to do.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
The fourth down pass that went to Jermaine Burton, if
that goes to Jamar Chase over the middle, it's probably
another touchdown. The two point conversions should have went to
jama He should have had even more of a stamp
on that game. And again, we talked about this earlier,
Like you listened to Jamar Chase, you see a frustration.
You think that's a guy that's gonna be like, Hey,

(01:19:38):
you know what, by guns be by guns. I'll offer
you the same deal to sign me this offer.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
What is remarkable about this is Mike Florio Pro Football
Talk had some things to say about, you know, how
tough negotiations really were. Here's what I know. Jamar Chase
wanted a new deal went to the Bengals and said,
give me a new deal. There was some level of negotiation.
It didn't work out. Since then, Jamar Chase has had
a half a season or a little bit more than
a half a season, where so far he's the best

(01:20:04):
wide receiver in the sport. Whatever he was asking from
you back in August, add to it, and add to
it probably a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
And I don't know from a detailed exact standpoint, but
folks around those conversations it didn't feel like it was
a an out of this world ask.

Speaker 6 (01:20:22):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
A lot of it felt like he's asking a fair value. Yeah,
there's a little sticking point in the guaranteed money, and
from a little sticking point to I can't even imagine
how much more it's gonna cost you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
He's gonna ask I said this before. He's gonna ask
for forty million, thinks so, and he should get it. Yes,
So this is what you.

Speaker 4 (01:20:41):
Get when you wait for waiting, you drag your feet.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
And Jamar Chase has gone out there and said, Okay,
watch here's what I asked for. We'll watch me do
this now, and I'm gonna ask for more. And now
you're gonna be put pretty much back into a corner
and you have to pay him.

Speaker 3 (01:20:58):
And the insane part about what Chase is doing is
doing it without t Higgins available much. They put your
defensive coordinator hat on. Like we talked about this with
the Bengals all the time, double team Trey Hendrickson, make
someone else beat you. If you are playing against the Bengals,
what are you saying, anybody but Jamar? You don't think

(01:21:19):
that's what the Ravens, who get paid a lot of
money to sleep in their office from the coaching staff
all the time. You don't think the Ravens had talks
all week of we just can't let him beat us,
and he almost single handedly did, and he's doing it
without any help really around him.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
It's just so there's multiple ways of looking at that. Specifically,
there's the long term ramification of him having the season
that he's had, and there's also wasting you like, just that's.

Speaker 4 (01:21:47):
The biggest point.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Joe and Jamar are right now is good as you'll
find in this sport, as good as you'll find in
the history of this franchise. The season those two are
having together and you're four and six, Yeah, and that's
what the Bengals are built on. Right, this thing that
they're built on is Joe and Jamar. Like at Third Core,
we talked about organizational identity. If you want to argue

(01:22:09):
they have one, that's what it is. Yep, you're four
and six.

Speaker 4 (01:22:12):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Can you imagine some of the other teams that we
talk about consistently being among the best, being really good
at what they're supposed to be about, and having a
losing record going into the last couple of weeks of November.

Speaker 4 (01:22:22):
Insane. Wouldn't happen? Insane.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
This is what they're supposed to be all about, and
they're great at it, and they're four and six.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
And for years we thought this would be enough to
compete for titles. Yes, you know, they can just patchwork
the roster. Joe and Jamar are elite and that's enough.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
It's not. But what it does is it reveals holes
in the roster. You know, we could talk all we
want about, Well, here's who they should have brought in
this week, and what was the deal that they offered
Xavier Howard after he worked out, And here's what they
should have done this offseason. Like the amount of work
that regardless of how the next seven weeks unfold the
amount of work they're gonna have to do on this roster. Yep,

(01:23:02):
the offensive line is a liability right now. They need
help a running back, they need defensive line help in
the absolute worst way. I have no idea who should
be on this team in the secondary next year. Like
the amount of areas they're gonna have to fix and
adjust and not be able to throw money blindly at
it's pretty staggering.

Speaker 3 (01:23:21):
It's crazy to think, Okay, let's say the bad happens
and instead of talking about playoffs, we get an early
jump start on a top fifteen pick. It's insane the
arguments that we could probably make right here about which
position they would go.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
Oh, by the way, I didn't mention wide receiver without
T Higgins.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
Right, Like that's a legitimate target for a first round
pick in this league. D line corner, I mean safety,
offensive line, offensive line, like running back, You're gonna go
all over the map like that. That's the the other
side of this. Either we run down the stretch here
we're scratching a calalling to talk about playoffs and matchups,

(01:24:00):
or we get a jumpstart on who they take in
the first round and there are so many holes on
this roster that you could make a case for probably
six seven, eight positions.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Yeah, and if you think about what has happened just
over the last two years, if you go back to
the draft where they took Dax Hill right thirty first
overall pick, you could draft him and know this is
gonna be a red shirt year.

Speaker 4 (01:24:20):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Right. They have the luxury of being able to take
a player that they're not going to use this season
because that's how good the roster is. Miles Murphy kind
of the same thing. Hey, here's a guy that we
would like to get something out of, but we don't
need to press him into service. We can rotate him in.
We don't need a lot from him because our roster
is really good. Couldn't really do that this past offseason,

(01:24:40):
and god knows you're not gonna be able to do
with this coming off season. The other thing I kind
of wonder is, right they've whipped in free agency this year?

Speaker 4 (01:24:48):
Yeah, I mean they have.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Now some of these players may turn it on the
final seven games or whatever. How much of that will
impact their approach and free agency in.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
The coers We've seen it in the past. Rock record
for that we've talked about missing in the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
If you're missing in the draft and you're missing in
free agency, what what are you doing? And how are
you going to rectify that to not waste more of
the prime and so of Joe Burrow?

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
And so if I'm if I own the organization and
I go, Okay, the quarterback that I had to pay
ended up being worth the money this year, and the
wide receiver that I'm gonna have to pay I now
have to pay more because he had a great year.
Shouldn't I have something to show for it beyond this?

Speaker 6 (01:25:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
And if you have to ask that question, then you
have to start. If it's me, then I have to
start asking questions about the people that are working for me. Correct,
Duke Zach, I'm getting I'm paying Joe Burrow money that
he has proven to be worthy of all pro level.
I'm now gonna have to pay Jamar Chase even more
because he had a great year. Okay, fine, awesome. Shouldn't

(01:26:00):
I be better than trying to sneak into the playoffs
as a seventh seed?

Speaker 4 (01:26:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
Maybe Hendrickson saw this all along. Yeah, maybe that's why
he started what he was doing before the draft. H
he's leading the NFL in sacks. You got these cornerstone
pieces in your four and six.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
But but but I think most most NFL owners that's
how they would look at it. Yeah, right, you have
to so I you know, you can talk about, well,
they're never gonna move on for Zach or Duke. I mean,
you know they explored life without Zach Taylor at the
end of twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:26:33):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
I just know if it's me all right, I had
to write this check for Joe Burrow, I'm gonna have
to write an even bigger check for Jamar Chase. Those
guys are great.

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
Those guys are doing what I'm paying for. Why aren't
we winning? Zach Duke? Yep, fair question, It's fair. Nineteen
minutes after five o'clock. Uh, you have to go host
Bengals line man.

Speaker 4 (01:26:56):
What a day? What a night?

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
So the Tonian Most Tony and Mo Football Show for
the next forty minutes is going to turn into the
Mo Show, The Mo Football Show with a very large
helping of Zach Taylor coming in. I will see you tomorrow.
I'll be listening tonight. Thanks you'll hear Tony with Dave
Lapham on Bengals Line six to nine tonight on seven hundred. Wow,
you're stuck with me between now and six o'clock. We

(01:27:23):
have a lot more to get to here at Twin
Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Station blend Light and by Skyline Shirley on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Twenty seven after five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
on Moeger broadcasting today from Twin Peaks in Florence, TONI
and Mo Football Show. We'll be back at the Westchester
location a week from today, the day after the Bengals
take on the Los Angeles Chargers. Let's take a look
at today's sweet Life HVAC stats of the game. They

(01:27:59):
are brought to you by my friends at sweet Life
Heating and Air. These guys are the best. Now the
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Keep this website handy, Okay, call sweetlife dot com whether
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(01:28:21):
Life Heating and cooling. They've got the coolest looking trucks
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Hopefully you get through the winter with oh furnace issues,
but maybe do a tune up. Make sure that your
system is good to go for when the weather gets
really cold. Call sweetlife dot com is the website that's

(01:28:42):
call sweet life dot com. Joe Burrow currently leads the
NFL in passing yards, touchdown passes, completions, and attempts. I
always talk about his gold standard season, which to a
degree was twenty twenty two. He was an MVP finalist.
Patrick Mahomes won it that year, but Joe Burrow was

(01:29:03):
good enough to be considered a finalist. Well, if you
compare his numbers right now through ten games versus twenty
twenty two this season compared to his MVP finalist year,
Joe has a higher completion percentage this year, a better
interception rate, a higher passing success rate, more yards per attempt,

(01:29:24):
more yards per completion, a better quarterback rating, and a
better QBR this year as opposed to two years ago
when he was an MVP finalist. Has he been perfect.

Speaker 6 (01:29:36):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Do I wish you would have thrown the ball to
Jamar Chase on the two point conversion on Thursday night? Yes,
unequivocally yes. But is he having a terrific season? Without question?
Are they wasting it to this point? Unfortunately, the answer
is also yes. Let's talk about Jamar Chase. I'm sure
you've seen this, but at Bears mentioning, Jamar Chase was

(01:29:58):
unbelievable against the Baltimore Ravens and showed you every reason
why he is gonna be try. He's gonna try to
be the highest paid wide receiver in the NFL, and
I firmly believe that. I think he's gonna ask for
forty million dollars and maybe a lot more money than
the Bengals could have signed him for last offseason. Against Baltimore,
he was terrific. He had that huge, long, crowd silencing

(01:30:22):
game tying touchdown reception against the Ravens and his stat
line was through the roof. Uh. He had eleven catches
for two hundred and sixty four yards and three touchdowns,
becoming the first player in NFL history to record multiple
games of two hundred and fifty plus yards or more
and two touchdown receptions. No other player has done that.

(01:30:45):
And by the way, this is a franchise. Say what
you want about the Bengals, but their history is filled
with great wide receivers, right the great Isaac Curtis, the
iconic JAD Johnson, the amazing AJ Green, and so many more.
Jamar Chase, if he stays in Cincinnati, is probably gonna
shatter all of their records. Chaa Johnson is the franchisees

(01:31:05):
all time leading receiver, but Jamar Chase leads all of
those men in yards per game with eighty five point four,
more than ten yards higher than the guy who's number two,
AJ Green seventy four point three. Jamar Chase might be
the best wide receiver in the NFL, and by the
time it's all said and done, it is quite possible,

(01:31:28):
one might argue likely he'll be considered the greatest wide
receiver in franchise history. Those are just some of Jamar
Chase's facts, figures, and stats. Again, thanks to our friends
at sweet Life, Hitting and Air, gonna call sweetlife dot com.
That's called sweet life dot Com. We'll talk about what
the Bengals did and didn't do today with street free

(01:31:49):
agents and We'll hear the head coach of the Bengals,
Zach Taylor, when we come back. Tony and Mo Football
Show Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
Now you've been listening to football in Thenetti on the
official home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Game Blast.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Well, this is Dave Lapple and you're listening to the
Home of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty fort Medlines and
Service at Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime power train protection
and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours Forlive
kelsonchev dot Com. Bengals brought in Leonard Fournette for a workout,
didn't sign him. They have signed running back Gary Brightwell
to the practice squad. Fourth year player from Arizona spent

(01:32:32):
three years with the Giants. Played in two games of
the Browns this year. Forty one career rushing attempts eleven
pass receptions was cut by the Browns practice squad or
cut from the Browns practice squad. On October the twenty ninth,
Bengals Chargers on Sunday Night Live on ESPN fifteen thirty. Meanwhile,

(01:32:52):
the Monday night football game tonight Rams and Dolphins is
on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:32:57):
This evening, college basketball, you see seventeenth.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
AP Top twenty five Men's poll, Kentucky nineteenth, Ohio State
twenty first Buckeyes play Youngstown State tonight. Indiana now a
football school, by the way. By the way, I'm rooting
for the Hoosiers win the national title as a fun coach,
fun offense, fun story. They're now sixteenth Xavier twenty ninth.
Sean Miller showed tonight at seven. I'm still waiting for

(01:33:20):
my invitation to his podcast. He told me he was
gonna have me on his podcast. Maybe somebody can bring
that up to him. On his radio show tonight at
seven o'clock on fifty five KRC, we'll have Zach Taylor's
press conference. Out of contractual obligation here in just a second. Obviously,
today is a special day. It's Veterans Day. If you're
a veteran, certainly cannot go out of my way more

(01:33:45):
to extend my thank you for your service. And I
love reading stories like this. The folks that made Well
Restoration great partners with us at iHeartMedia and ESPN. Fifteen thirty.
These folks go out of their way for veterans. I
saw this story and I wanted to pass it on
because it's a great story, and it also illustrates why

(01:34:07):
I love the folks that made Well so much. They
gifted a World War II veteran by the name of
Albert Wes one hundred one years old. This gentleman needed
a new roof, and the folks that made Well gave
him a new roof, tore the old one off, replaced
it with a new one, no charge. Because this is

(01:34:29):
what they do for folks like mister West one hundred
one years old. Matt and Joe at Madewell Restoration stepped
up and took care of this man. And as they
put it, it was a small way of saying thank
you the folks that made Well Restoration. They love our veterans.
We love our veterans. I love the folks that made Well,

(01:34:50):
and so first of all, to one hundred one year
old Albert Wes, thank you for your service and enjoy
your new roof. Thanks to the folks that made Well Restoration.
This is what they do. They did this for this gentleman,
no charge. A new roof. He badly needed it, and
they stepped up big time for someone who many many

(01:35:12):
many years ago stepped up for our country. It's time
for the contractual obligation. Zach Taylor's Monday after New press
conference on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
What is the week book like in terms of Orland
and Brown and te Higgins practice status.

Speaker 7 (01:35:30):
We'll see, you know, forty eight hours. We'll get on
the field Wednesday. You know, I did a walk through today.
Everything is positive, but we'll take those guys day to
day starting on Wednesday. They did, but again, walk through
is pretty easy to participate in, so I wouldn't read
too much into that and we'll just we'll get to
Wednesday and see where it's at. Joe, I didn't ask

(01:35:50):
him how sorry he was. Sometimes I don't ask those questions.
I don't want to answers to you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:35:56):
Reportedly they stuffed moves today in terms of bringing people
in the workouts.

Speaker 7 (01:36:01):
There's a report out that you signed the right down.

Speaker 3 (01:36:04):
Do you have any confirmation of that.

Speaker 7 (01:36:06):
I don't know if I can confirm it. At three thirteen,
can come out of the day and night. Yeah, it's
still sore, I believe you know. So again, we'll we'll
get through the week with him and see where ends up.

Speaker 4 (01:36:19):
What do you feel like from your.

Speaker 3 (01:36:21):
Quarterback group right now?

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
Would feel like? What do you like you would like
to be a better as a whole.

Speaker 5 (01:36:26):
From the quarterback room corners.

Speaker 7 (01:36:28):
Yes, consistency, I think that's the biggest thing, and that's
that's you know how it felt last week and that's
how I feel today. Just consistency from snap to snap.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Josh, maybe you can have a chance to see more
playing time.

Speaker 7 (01:36:39):
I think we continue to try to work in young
guys as best we can and when they earn playing
time and where it fits the defense and offense. Uh,
We're certainly open to the possibility of of anybody helping
us that can. And Josh has been a hard worker.
I like his energy, I like how his approach and
a young player, and so we'll just continue to work
with him and see see how it plays out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Is it hard to have consistency in that room when
you guys are working with the different guys.

Speaker 7 (01:37:02):
No, I mean we're just trying to do his best
to get stops and put our defense in the best position.
So again, it's sometimes that's leaving guys out there for
long periods of time. Sometimes it's getting peopled in in
different packages. Uh, so they feel comfortable and can take
advantage of the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
About consistency, was that entailed?

Speaker 7 (01:37:17):
Was that just statas taking the air out of the coverage,
you know when you're just in a one on one,
you know, making it more contested, making it more difficult.
So again, just just be dependable down in that out
there's some really good snaps from that room, you know,
and then there's there's some like, like every position we
got in this team where it's got to be better.
I think when you're four and six, you know, you
asked about the corner room, but really I think you're

(01:37:38):
talking about every position room.

Speaker 5 (01:37:39):
There's things out there.

Speaker 7 (01:37:40):
We just got to be better, you know, as a
position group, as a unit, and obviously that flows into
the team.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
How much does the.

Speaker 7 (01:37:47):
Black pass rush system gass rush impacted? But I think
that's certainly gotten better. You look at Lamar, he's extended.
How many times do we have him right in our
clutches and he's able to get out of it? And
that's that's play. And a guy that's a two time
MVP and does all the things he does. So I
certainly think that over the last couple of weeks, the
passerss has gotten better and overall those things have improved.

(01:38:09):
And we just got a tough spot in some of
the players last week against Baltimore.

Speaker 4 (01:38:12):
Would you say that's that's significantly improved in the middle
of the defensive line where you're getting more pressure, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:38:19):
What you have.

Speaker 7 (01:38:20):
It's hard for me to quantify it, but I do
think it's gotten better, you know, as as these last
couple of games have progress, We're had.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Kind of looking at this way that AFC is kind
of a scramble after yesterday, any you go back to
look at notes from.

Speaker 4 (01:38:38):
Maybe like a year and twenty one at it buy
went out to Vegas and facing a similar team.

Speaker 7 (01:38:45):
I don't know if you look back at that, Yeah,
it's probably a similar situation, you know, at this point
in the year, making a West coast trip versus a
team that's playing good football right now, you know, and
so it's a good test for us. You know, we're
in situations now where these these games are getting more
critical by the week. We got a seven more, but
it's a big one, you know. It's just kind of
a one game stand right now, and then we got

(01:39:07):
the bye week after that, So certainly, like we do
every week, turn all of our attention at the Chargers
and told our guys get rested up this past weekend
and be ready to work this week. And you know,
I like the energy we felt so far to down
on Monday.

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
Yeah, biveways a big time for self scouting. Did you
guys get a jump on that at all this weekend
with them any.

Speaker 7 (01:39:26):
Buy or just started focus on the Chargers, you know?
And then next week, next week, we really self scout
every week, you know. Now with the way that you know,
we got to access the analytics and all the people
on our staff, we try not let a week go
by where we're not really reflective on what have we
done the last four or five games that teams are seeing.
And so I think we got a good staff that

(01:39:46):
does a good job identifying all that stuff making us.

Speaker 5 (01:39:48):
Aware of it early in the week.

Speaker 4 (01:39:49):
And so.

Speaker 7 (01:39:51):
There were there were years where you spent the whole
bye week because that was the only time you got
a chance to actually comb through the tape. But now
I feel like we do a much better job of
for week to week integrating all those tendencies in our plan,
because there any particularly.

Speaker 6 (01:40:02):
Who's really helping the facilitates over the last couple of.

Speaker 7 (01:40:05):
Years, and maybe well Sam Francis is the best with
the data, you know, and then we got Cally Controls
that siphoned through it as well. Pitch is great at it.
Guys on defense do it as well. So it's something
that we're all aware of and try our best to
cover it up.

Speaker 6 (01:40:19):
It's probably the biggest thing that that people probably don't
get enough friend for us White's been so successful, especially
this season.

Speaker 7 (01:40:26):
How much work he puts into it, you know, I
think those are the behind the scenes things that people
don't realize. He's in here every day, I mean every
opportunity he gets to use the weight room and be
in there, and all the body work he does in
the training room, and he works as hard as any
player in this league. And so it's not a surprise

(01:40:46):
when you see your best players put in the work
three hundred and sixty five days a year, day in
and day out, in the season, and then they go
out there and they're able to do the things that
they do. It's not it's not shocking that he's he's
maximized every bit of potential. Well, he's got his body
because of the way he works and the way he
prepares and and uh so again it's not surprising that
he puts themselves with these opportunities.

Speaker 5 (01:41:10):
Yeah, it's you know, it's it.

Speaker 7 (01:41:11):
It doesn't seem complex, you know, it's look at these
guys who have played at a high level and done
it and experienced it, and everyone's different. Everyone's got their
different process. So you don't just want to emulate somebody
else if that's not what makes sense to you, but
certainly makes sense to me. Sometimes take pridably tackle, especially
the secondary players.

Speaker 4 (01:41:32):
Guys and tons of fat people have tackled over the last.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
Couple of years. How do you evaluate the way you
have tackled cloth in the secondary and overall?

Speaker 7 (01:41:39):
Well, I think there's in moments where we've done a
great job against the run, and then sometimes where guys
get away on you and you miss him tackles. So
I think overall for the year, probably more miss tackles
than we're comfortable with.

Speaker 5 (01:41:51):
I know that for a fact.

Speaker 7 (01:41:53):
But you know, I think we've gotten better against the
run these last couple of weeks and do our best
minimize that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Of building this timmy year.

Speaker 4 (01:42:01):
What's the biggest thing you're looking for that you're hoping
to get for those.

Speaker 5 (01:42:04):
Guys, Guys that you can envision a role for.

Speaker 7 (01:42:07):
You know, if it's an active roster spot, certainly somebody
that can come in and fits a role for you
and you feel like you can you can find a
way to hit the ground running with them and they
can add something down the stretch here. If it's a
practice squad of guy you want to continue to work
with and develop and you know, have a vision for
long term. So sometimes it can be on the position,
how deep you are and kind of what's available on
the wire, but you want to have a short term,

(01:42:29):
long term vision for the guys you're bringing at this
point in the year, understanding that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:33):
Losing can take a toll.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
The losing take a toll as well.

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
I wasn't around.

Speaker 5 (01:42:39):
It's good.

Speaker 7 (01:42:39):
I mean, I think everybody still sees the potential in
our season and losing a close game it it. You know,
it's a punching the gut for sure, one that you
think you got a chance to win and it slips
away from it. At the same time, we know we
got a good football team, and everyone believes that. And
you know, different guys, different places have been in these
situations before and there's evidence where you can pull out

(01:43:01):
of it and still have a tremendous season. And so
that's where our focus is right now, is focus on
the Chargers to point ourselves in that direction to have
a tremendous season.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
Coach coach positivity or to check.

Speaker 7 (01:43:13):
That no, I think you know that's that's a position
by position thing. You know, that's something we talk about
with the coaching staff is make sure your room is
heading in the right direction. And that's the leadership that
you talk to as well with those players in that room,
to make sure you're pulling it along. And then that
affects the entirety of the team. And so again, that
hasn't been an issue that I've seen.

Speaker 6 (01:43:34):
Changes.

Speaker 5 (01:43:38):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (01:43:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:43:41):
I went to my first ever NFL game, I think
was ninety two Bears Steelers, and I got to go
to a Saturday walk through and I have a picture
with Jim Harbaugh, me, Press Taylor and Jim Harbaugh ninety
ninety three. I'm not sure which year it was, it
was a Steelers at Bears. Bubby Brister Verus Jim Harbaugh,
so I'm sure I think they retired Mike Singletary's jersey
at the game. I think very shaky memory as a

(01:44:02):
nine year old, ten year old freezing.

Speaker 5 (01:44:06):
I remember just.

Speaker 7 (01:44:07):
Being why are we here? I think was a question
I posed quite a bit, so Jim wouldn't know that.
But but again that's that was the first ever NFL
practice and game I ever went to. My dad coached
at Kansas State with a guy who's the string coach
at the Bears at the time, and so I think
just my parents took me and my brother on a trip.

(01:44:28):
We went to a Bulls game, We went to a
Bears game. I don't know how long we were there.
We stayed with with coach Reader and his family and
his son's now on Cali staff down to Tennessee. But yeah,
so we stayed with them, and he took us to
a Saturday It had to have been a Saturday walk
through because I remember the fridge driving around a golf
cart throwing snowballs at people. And we got a picture
with Mike Didka and Jim Harborough. The two people got
pictures with.

Speaker 2 (01:44:52):
Most of you.

Speaker 7 (01:44:52):
They're tough, they're they're a good football team. They're well
rounded up really every position, and they mean things really
hard for you. You know, they do a good job
controlling the clock offense, and defensively, they're they're stingy. They
don't give up explosives. Obviously, they given up seventy two
points on the year. They're number one in about most
of the categories that you see. So it's a great
test for us, and our guys are going to be
really excited for the opportunity, and it'll be tough road

(01:45:14):
given for us.

Speaker 4 (01:45:17):
Yeah, yeah, you have it.

Speaker 5 (01:45:20):
I don't know where it is.

Speaker 7 (01:45:21):
Yeah, all right, I'll continue the story. When I was
in Miami, the picture showed up at my house autographed
when I was with the Dolphins, and I remember calling
my mom saying, why do I have an autographed Jim
Harbaugh picture? Which I don't know if he actually autographed
it or not. It might have been somebody at the
forty nine ers. My grandfather thought that Jim Harbaugh needed

(01:45:43):
to know that the two kids in the picture are
now NFL coaches, and so he kept sending it to
the forty nine ers and was getting no response. And
I'm sure a secretary somebody eventually just signed it and
send it back, and so it shows up on my
doorstep in Miami, and I remember call my mom like
what what are we doing? And she explained the whole situation,
which I understood. My grandfather is very proud and felt like,

(01:46:04):
you know, Jim Harbaugh needed to know, like he hadn't
taken a million other pictures with other kids before. So
the picture exists. I don't know where it is, is
probably my parents' house and a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:46:16):
That someday that's really cool.

Speaker 7 (01:46:18):
You're probably right, yeah, yeah, no, you know, no, I
I've never interact with him since that moment in person when.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
You were evaluating quarterbacks in the twenty twenty as four
year thoughts on Justine Kurkins.

Speaker 7 (01:46:35):
Well, we had him at the Senior Bowl, you know,
so I was great person, really picked up the offense fast.
I thought it was very complicated at that point, but
really impressive week with him. So again, not no surprise
to see him having the success and leading the team
like he has. That's that is not surprising at all
based on everything you learned about him at Oregon. Uh,

(01:46:56):
the way you interact with him over the week at
the Senior Bowl. Again, really impressive player and obviously having
a tremendous career.

Speaker 6 (01:47:03):
Why quarterback has been so successful and you will get
your guys down the Drafty to remind me, I've been
focused on Joe.

Speaker 5 (01:47:15):
To uh Jalen. Yeah, mmm, I I can't. I can't
pinpoint that for you.

Speaker 7 (01:47:24):
You know, it's obviously very talented, very driven players, not
that other classes haven't been, so you know, it's hard
hard for me to compare against the other ones. Yeah,
continues to proof, you know, and again just just maximizing
the opportunities getting and so again I think he's heading
the right direction.

Speaker 2 (01:47:44):
Like there, he goes. Zach Taylor's Monday afternoon press conference.
We gave it to you a little bit later than
usual today.

Speaker 4 (01:47:49):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
We're back in west Chester a week from today for
the Tony and MO Football Show. I want to thank
the staff here at the Florence location. Thank our guy
Mike Mills for producing on site, and of course Taran
for using back in Kenwood. I return tomorrow at three
zero five. Have a great night. Thank you for listening.
This has been the Tony IMO Football Show on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. This is Jennifer Mueller vice president,

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