November 12, 2024 • 36 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the Cincinnati Bengals, their playoff chances, the fallout from the loss in Baltimore, why the Bengals didn't sign Xavien Howard, and why then did sign someone named Gary Brightwell.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
PN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
What's up a good afternoon on my legger? This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. We are thrilled that you are with us.
We're broadcasting today from Buffalo Wild Wings. We're back in
Blue Ash. This is where it all started, back in
early September. There was so much hope and optimism and
joy and excitement. And there still is because it's Buffalo
(00:25):
Wild Wings. There's just maybe not that so much for
the local football team, but you know that can be
rectified in the coming weeks.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Here's what we got.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We got by one get one half off Traditional Wings.
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(00:54):
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have a lot to discuss. What is going on. Not much,
It's good.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It is good. To be back here.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You know, this is so much has changed, so much
changed since the last.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Time we were here in Las Yeah, so we were
we were before the opener. Yeah, I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It hadn't even gone sideways there yet.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, we were giving away tickets to the Bengals Patriots
game and there was excitement and uh, and now it's
I don't know what it is because I feel like
a lot of us are doing We're doing two things.
We're sort of sifting through the carnage of the first
ten games, but you know, we're clinging to that the
Broncos and the Colts, those teams aren't that inspiring. And
(01:40):
if they could just get in which kicks into hyperdrive,
if they went on Sunday Night, which is doable.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Absolutely, it's doable. I mean it's both things can be true.
I mean, both things can absolutely be true.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Where you have the fact is your season is wide open.
There there is.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
No reason that this team couldn't follow the Green Bay
Packers blueprint from last year, who were four and six
at this point, and then Jordan Love got hot. Joe
Burrow's already hot, yeah, and their defense got did enough
and they were one of the best teams that had
a legit shot to win the Super Bowl by the
time things really got going in the playoffs. That's not
(02:20):
saying that I believe that's gonna happen or you can
see that happening right now. A lot of things have
to change and go right and what have you. But
they got the hard part taken care of. They got
they got the quarterback playing at an elite level, which
is what will eventually carry this thing.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And so yeah, it's it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Not you know, that's that's almost I mean, that's the
ultimate lowest bar that this team has.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Is that can always be that.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
But it's like, it's when the expectations and the hope
and the reality of what this thing should have been
are just so much higher, it's hard to even cling
onto that and find that as hope because it's more
it almost feels sad that that's where in the position
that you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Paul.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
By the way, it covers the bank for the Athletic
dot Com and has a podcast, the Growler podcast Baalds
Don't Lie. Latest episode dropped a short while ago. Go
find that. I find myself sort of going back and
forth because I was doing this on Sunday watching the
the Broncos lose in what has turned into just typical
Kansas City Chiefs win fashion in twenty twenty four. But good,
(03:20):
I'm moving for Kansas City in that regard. And then
I see the Colts really no match for Buffalo, and
so I'm like, all right, you know in the race
for the seven, things haven't changed, right, Things haven't changed
from Thursday morning to Sunday afternoon, Right, things haven't changed.
They're a game behind Denver, they still have a chance
to play them. Here, they're tied with Indianapolis. That team
(03:40):
is still not very good. And you know what if
they get in, boy, they're dangerous. I know Green Bay
one is a seventh seed last year, but what a
dangerous seventh seed. And so if you're Buffalo, do you
want to play them?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
No?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
If you're Baltimore, do you want to play them? No?
If Kansas City were to slink to the second seed,
you don't want to play them at all. And that
sounds good. But I went into the season talking about
how do they win a championship and can they be
the one seed? And nothing that I've seen through ten
games would suggest that they can do anything beyond just
be a scary low seed. And that wasn't the goal
at the beginning of.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
The season, no, but that's the reality of where you're
at and and all paths are not the same, and
so you can talk yourself into that one. But it's
it's it's set. It's the failure that you have at
this point. I mean, is that it's just you don't
know what you can count on outside of the two
obvious things that you can count on, because every week
(04:34):
it feels like it's almost it's something same but different.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I mean, we've seen them.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Go through this roller coaster now where a couple of
weeks the offense was clunky and the defense got them
wins and then okay, now the offense starts humming again
and maybe the defense is better, and then four straight
touchdown drives again? Is do we I need to do
a real dive? When is how one is the record
for most times in the season that the defense has
allowed for consecutive touchdown drives? How does how this happened
(05:00):
over and over again? I I it's there's this has
got to be some kind of a record. But it's like,
you know, you feel like you have things under control
and then it falls out and it's really I've sort
of dubbed it the Season of the Inexplicable. It's just
how many times are they gonna continue to lose like this? Yeah,
where it just doesn't make any sense. They are they
a better team than four and six? Yeah, I think
(05:21):
there are better than a four and six team. I
think it's wild that every single one of those close
games have knock gone their way. Just law of averages
in the league says, when a game is basically decided
by one play either way, it's gonna be something.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You're gonna finish five hundred in.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Those games, to b zero and five in games decided
by six points or less, to be two and three
in games where you've scored at least thirty three points
when the rest of the league is thirty eight and one.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Like That's.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yes, they're better than four and six, which is what
makes them a scary seven seed, and that's what they
can cling on to. But the fact is that they
have put themselves in those situations. They have been a
team that has not made those plays, and they've played
bro yeah they haven't.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, they call it complimentary football.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I just call it disjoin it, Yeah, where it just
it never feels like it's all together.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It never feels like they're in it to win. It
fre each other.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
The reactions and the body language never feel like anything
resembling the same stuff you saw in previous seasons.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But they were close on Thursday, far up fourteen. They're
playing a really good football game every phase. At twenty
one seven, you've got the football and maybe it's a
lifetime as a Bengals fan. Maybe it's just understanding that
this is how the season has been preordained to go.
As soon as Chase Brown fumble. Now I know that
(06:41):
after that there's a lot to relitigate, and we can.
But as soon as Chase Brown fumbled, you knew, you know,
you know, you just you you knew, And that to
me is it's frustrating for a lot of different reasons.
But for two and a half quarters were they look
like one of the best teams in the NFL. They
were operating in all cylinders offense, Lead Joe was playing
like an MVP. Jamar Chase was unbelievable. And that's not
(07:04):
even taken into account of stuff those two would do afterward,
Right after they blew the lead. But at twenty one seven,
I said it out loud, like, just give me three
on this drive and then I'll take my chances. Right,
give me twenty four to seven or deliver a knockout
blow and we're gonna walk out of here five and five,
maybe a shot in the division, clear eye toward the postseason,
(07:25):
and let's go. And all that evaporated. Ye in about
seventy five minutes.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, I had.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I had leaned over right as that drive was starting
and they started, you know, getting it moving, and leaned
over to Charlie Goldsmith, this is next me in the
press box and said, I mean, are they gonna blow
this thing out?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, just stunned by that, even having that.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And then the next thought was, oh, the one thing
you couldn't do, the one thing like the you could
have punted. Your defense is playing well. Force them to go,
don't give him the momentum. The Ravens had just gotten
booed off the field, the MVP, you know, the MV three,
right and everything.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
That they had been this whole year.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
We're getting booed by the home crowd on the way
out of the last time that this Bengals defense the
Bengals defense had to them down again, and the only
thing you couldn't do was give them the momentum, give
them the short field, immediately get them back into it.
And that's what happened. I mean, But that's what this
season has been. It's been whenever the one thing that
(08:29):
can't happen does and it just seems to happen, and
somebody else does it each and every week, and it's
the sign of losing teams that do losing football.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Well, you and I've watched a lot of losing.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Football from this team over the course of our lives,
and that's what it looks like.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
That's the difference.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
That's the difference is the team that always seems to
just do the wrong thing at the wrong time and
also not be able to stem the tide, not be
able to punch back against the adversity. And I feel
like this team has not had that. Once someone has
punched them, they've just been unable to recover, specifically defensively.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, it's I was gonna ask you. It was the
great wordsmith that you are, Like have you have you
run out of adjectives? Have you run out of descriptors
like gut punch brutal, heart wrenching. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
No, I have settled into inexplicable for the rest of
the year because it's just it's it's almost impossible.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But yeah, you gotta you gotta go with the sarus
like I didn't expect it. Usually it takes me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Till December to have to go thesaurus on on some
on on a theme, right, But I mean I've had
to go the saarus on that, uh you know early.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was probably mid October. Yeah, I mean, it's what
it is.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
But because every week it feels and when when you're
playing the must win game every week.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh they've had like seven musks.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
You can't keep playing the must wins. It's just it's
just that control.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've I've built Sunday Night as the latest must win,
the latest must right before next week's two weeks we
were we were.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Joking that in last night when we did our live
show about we were kind of re racking some of
the takes from our preseason live show down there, and
one of them was our good friends Mike Patralia saying
the opener against New England was a must win. And
I say he may be proven right on that one.
Still it may be proven that because that does feel
(10:28):
like that talk about one that has just hung over
you all year. If you're the Bengals, where you're talking
about the difference between five and five right now and
some of the other things.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That have gone down, well, and for.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Me, and maybe this is just me, I'm sure it's
welcome to you. But the weirdness of having one game
in twenty four days, yeah, just adds to the vibe,
which right now isn't great, but it could change on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Everything can change, right, I mean everything, everything can change.
No homefield Chargers, right well, no question about that, right yeah,
I mean everything changes.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It's a week to week league. I mean the.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Nature and something that I've been trying to really hammer
people is that the nature of the types of games
they're gonna play down the stretch, the types of teams
that are playing, I think does better set up to them.
They're gonna play a lot of games where you're gonna
feel better about the defense just by the nature of
the opponents that you're playing. And so you're gonna play
a lot of games where the defense is gonna make
some plays.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Nearest say, you know, yep, the.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Defense is really starting to figure it out, starting to
make plays. But the question will be can this Bengals offense,
which has put up some big numbers, some of them
by virtue of the Ravens twice and the Commanders early
in the season had put up some of those big numbers,
and they're certainly the Bay Burrows playing everything else. Are
(11:51):
they going to be able to take it to the
next level against these top defenses? Four games against teams
that have defenses in the top three right now? That
will be the question, because I don't know that right now,
and which is a weird thing to say when we
talk about the nature of the way they're built, but
I think that's the predicament that they're in that nothing
feels complete.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I want to ask about what did or didn't happen
yesterday and who the hell Gary Brightwell is. When we
come back, We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Blue Ash
Paul Danner Junior. Follow him on x at Paul Danner Junior.
It's nineteen after three o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
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(12:35):
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We are maybe ninety seconds away from I seventy one.
What happened with Xavion Howard yesterday?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Huh this is.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
A guy who's in a position to turn down offers.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Uh yeah, I think, I mean, I guess he you know,
they brought him in, and first of all, we need
to rewind.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
This is this goes.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I mean to me, you know when we first said, like,
so you're gonna sign a veteran corner, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
After the draft, we remember having the conversation with him, like.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Clearly this is a team that needs a veteran corner.
And I think at that point Howard's name was probably
one of a couple dozen in the conversation. And by
the time you reached camp and you're like, Okay, is there.
He's out there. I know there's off the lot off
field stuff there, but you know, he's got a relationship
(13:49):
with LouAnn Arumo thinks he's great and and could be
a landing spot there you need him. Okay, okay in
training camps like well, that seems like a perfect time
to make a call and maybe Seep come in.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
No, no, no, Week ten, no, no, DA's hill goes down.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah right, okay, Well, now now you're in the.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Market for a veteran corner.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Xavian Howard's out there, he knows lu and Rumoh can
hop in and do some things.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Week ten, the week ten, Now this is the time.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
This is the moment we're like, well, yeah, now, let's
that's why.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's I hope the Hard Knocks cameras were in the room. Yeah,
when somebody like came in and said, you know what we
ought to do, guys, find a veteran corner.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Find a veteran corner, like I would love time, Like,
when was the moment that something someone's been raising their
hand in the corner for like six months and no
one knew they were there?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah me, okay, I have I'm the guy. When what
was the point that they had to get to where
they went? You know, there are other football players out there,
so but does this suggest that they tried to trade
from one like why would you just try to trade
for one instead of getting a guy who's on the street.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It suggests, it certainly suggests that they failed at doing right. Yeah,
I mean, that's that would maybe make it a maybe Okay.
I mean I think that they were having conversations, but
I don't know how hopeful they were that those were
actually gonna pan out. So you end up with this
situation and he comes in and and is gonna have
(15:25):
a number that he wants to play too, And what's
he what's he got to do? I'm gonna go back
to the couch man like whatever, you know, and you
can call me back if you want to, if you
want to actually pay me, or you know, put me
on the real roster, and then we can talk about
what that actually looks like, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And so I I but how.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
How far apart could the two sides? You got a
team that's desperate for corner help or desperate enough to
be kicking the tires on Xagon Howard, and and a
player who's not in the league, Like there could not
have been a huge gulf between what he was looking
for and what they offered.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I'm not gonna be honest with that.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I don't care that they did or didn't get it whatever,
but that dynamic to me is interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I mean it's most of the guys that come, including Gary.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Gary Brightwell Brightwell, yes, this time.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Of year, starting the practice squad, and then eventually you
make their way up. I if that was a part
of the conversation, I can't imagine that would go over
well for a four time pro bowler or Leonard Fournette,
who also was in in for his workout. So how
much of that is reality or was it just not
gonna be? The reason he's still available is because he's
(16:36):
not going to play at a league minimum. He'd rather
just stay at home. I mean, he's made money, right,
so maybe he's like, I'm not gonna come out here
and put my body up for anything, shy of X number.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And that's just what it is.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And that's also very possible and probably part of the
reason why he's still out there, or maybe that they
didn't bring him into this point.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Uh So, I don't you know, I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Ccifically the golf that you're talking about, they do, but
I don't think it was.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It certainly wasn't cut and dry.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I thought Gary Brightwell was the name of my in
law's financial advisor. Yeah, apparently he's an NFL running back. Yeah, no,
he's absolutely So this was also interesting yesterday. Nothing against
Gary bright Well.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
This is really unfortunate for year.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
It is unfortunate for him. And I was saying to
you off air, I was kind of busy yesterday, so
I was just getting caught up on Hey, Leonard Fournette,
they're working him out, and Xavier Howard they're working him out.
And then by the time I kind of wrapped my
brain around that, boom, Gary Brightwell. Yeah. Now, Leonard Fournette
did nothing for him. He played two games for the
Bills last year. Yeah, washed up running back at a
(17:43):
position where it's easy to get washed up at very quickly.
But uh, I guess if you were excited about playoff
Lenny making an appearance in Cincinnati, it's a bit of
a letdown when my in law's financial advisor because the
guy they signed.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well, it's it's just you know, it's it's not his fault.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
No that they were two bigger names that were being
brought in from to a fan base that has been
sitting on the edge of its seat staring at the
bottom line ticker for months, wanting anybody to come.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
And just help this team do anything, really, and.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Finally they think they're gonna get a name that they've
heard of, and then you'll take Cary and you'll like it. Yes, yeah,
you'll take Eric Bright when you like it. I mean,
their their team is, their team is on the pot.
My point is, I don't Xavian Howard isn't changing anything.
Xavian Howard was not going to come in here and
all of a sudden, you're just getting this competent level immediately.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I mean, that's the.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Stupid part about waiting till week ten, is like, at
the very least, there's some time to come in and
get a feel for didn't We just get berated for
an entire offseason about how you gotta have communication even
get on the field out here and how important that is.
But this dude's just gonna show up and he's gonna
immediately like take you to the level that you need
to be at, and we're not gonna talk about communication anymore.
(19:03):
It's just desperate. Everything that's happening is just desperate right now.
All these rotations on defense that are happening of it's
the last drive, and now Cam Taylor BRIT's out, but
DJ Turner was out before, and Josh Newton's like we're
in the Josh Newton portion of the program now right,
Like you've got Josepho's size out here playing over top
of Miles Murphy because he's playing hard. Mike Hilton's coming
(19:26):
off the field and he's the only cornerback it seems
to ever make a play.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Stay there, because that was where I was gonna go
next at the game on Thursday night out loud, I thought,
maybe he got hurt.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Now, so here's this really good.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Slot corner, surehanded tackler who in situations where you would
think is perfect for him, they pull him off the field.
Can you tell me what that one?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It was my first question for Leinn Remo yesterday. I
had why why is Mike Hilton coming off the field?
Like I watch, you know, this defense struggle to put
a competent corner out there except for one guy I
see make plays. And he said, it's matchup driven. It's
mostly on third downs. Uh and and I said, well
he seems to be making a lot of plays. Yeah,
(20:08):
he makes a lot of plays on first, second down.
And he wants to get you know, he talks about
matchups and coverage matchups on other downs and more passing situations.
To me, was you know, and and lots of love
for Mike Hilton that he's had. He was suggesting that
he thinks he's not able to cover as well. And
last year his maybe his numbers were up a little more.
(20:30):
Because I pointed out his snap count for the year
being down drastically from last year, he said, well, we
were rotating into play safety some So what was that
an option? I mean, it's not like safety is on
lock right now. Okay, no, no it doesn't. They think
they're settled there in what's going on in the safety position.
So you know, a guy who I see make more
plays than anybody in that secondary can't stay on the
(20:53):
field for some reason. It's just added to the list.
It's it's a it's a it's another drop in a bucket.
That's really hard to put it all together. It just
feels like grasping at any straw. It's not even we're
gonna change it. I'm not gonna call it rotating anymore.
It's begging anyone, begging anyone to step up and take
a job and become an answer, and he's giving everyone
(21:16):
a chance that possibly can't and nobody's doing it because
he just doesn't have.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It reminds me of The Reds twenty twenty three, starting pitching.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Hey, can you pitch? Can you pitch?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I mean it's kind of what it feels like on
defense right now?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Does Ricky Karcher play safety?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Can we get Can we at least get a Ricky
Karcher game where he gets like three picks?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That would be That would be awesome, That would be
maybe we'll get that some version of that from Gary
bright Well at London Back Kids twenty five away from
four o'clock, We're Bubbalo, Wild Wings and Blue Ash Paul
Danner Jinnior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast with
us till four AUDIESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Spork Station see
three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Do we want to move on? To keep going? And
Boston Elmore? I think you should continue to let me
keep going.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
There Sincy three sixty tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati's.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Es Excuse me of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of Lifetime powertrain
Protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours
for life kelseyshev dot com. Bengals signed any any other
guys that sound like they working a lumber yard.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Let's go through some of the local insurance games and
I can fire them off tea and we'll see. I'll say,
is this a new Bengals practice squad running back or
a local insurance salesman? That'll be our game? Will play
after this?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
There's nothing, no, no issue with insurance. Absolutely, this isn't
about right, no question Bengals getting said to play the
Chargers on Sunday night. That game is live on ESPN
fifteen thirty. College basketball tonight, Xavier is hosting Jackson State
at eight thirty on seven hundred WLW. Kentucky battles Duke
in the Champions Classic in Atlanta. That game is at
(22:57):
nine ish on ESPN fifteen thirty. Miami takes on Maryland
Eastern Shore tonight. If you like coaches shows, the NKU
Coaches Shows tonight at six on ESPN fifteen thirty. The
Scott's Saderfield Radio Show is this evening at eight pm
on Fox Sports thirteen sixty one. U see basketball note
you see junior Dan Skillings underwent what they're calling a
(23:19):
successful minor procedure on his knee yesterday. They expect him
to make a full recovery. His availability will be determined
on a week by week basis moving forward. Absolutely tragic
news from FC Cincinnati. Marco and Gulo passes away at
the age of twenty two, was involved in a horrific
(23:40):
car accident on October sixth. He's just twenty two years old.
The team with a statement released earlier today. The Cyclones
played this morning against the Kalamazoo k Wings and lost
three to and overtime. Morning Hockey Downtown Wow and Hockey tonight,
the Blue Jackets skate against the trying to break a
(24:01):
five game losing streak.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
We're Buffalo Wild wins? Uh? Is there any part of
that game beyond the Chase Brown fumble that you care
to rehash, relitigate, relive two point try?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I mean, we could we could talk about the two
point try in case it hasn't been talked about enough
at this point. Well, I did think, you know, the
the analytical discussion of it was kind of interesting, whereas
in the moment it seemed to me blatantly obvious, and
maybe I just had recency bias of watching Patrick Mahomes
(24:38):
go down in overtime UH to pull out their win
against the Bucks previously, and it's like, you just can't
go to overtime and go turn it into a coin
and because that's that's a coin toss game. That's that's there, right,
one of those two teams is going down and scoring
the touchdown is the way you have to look at it.
And so it felt obvious, but the fact that they
(24:59):
scored so the actual numbers were really turned it into
almost a coin flip because the inferred or implied aggression,
I should say that comes with there being two timeouts
and if you're down one as opposed to being tied,
they're gonna be They're gonna be all out. You're going
forward on fourth down, you're throwing d because you know
you've got to get day of Justin Tucker, you know.
(25:21):
Because so my my take on that game is even
if they get the two point conversion, they still.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Lose, possibly possibly like that because everybody if they would
have won, would they have So it's like it's interesting
because on Monday night we had a similar situation. Yeah,
right with the Bucks and Chiefs, and I think it's
Seth Walter of ESPN's Analytics sent a tweet out immediately
(25:48):
afterward that said, you know, essentially this is kind of
a fifty to fifty decision. Wasn't a huge upswing in
when probability had they gone for to and made it
versus kicking the pat and going over time, And so
I assumed that was the case there. I made it
very simple for me. I wanted them to go for it.
Number One, he's not coaching scared. We can cross that
(26:09):
off right. Number Two, if I go for two and
I get it, I've got to stop them once. If
I kicked the pat, I've got to stop them once
in regulation and maybe again in overtime. And they're not
doing that. So I'll roll the dice and maybe I
can stop them once.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
There's almost no game in your life if you're Zach
Taylor that you shouldn't say give me one play in
Joe Burrow. Yes, right with especially this year, Yes, where
you just say give me one play in Joe Brow.
Now the calls that did not happen on that uh,
you know, I sort of you know, joked around with
(26:49):
Mike GIESICKI a bit off the record of just like,
is that the worst the worst like non call you've
ever been a part of in your life?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You know? And he won to know.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
He wants nothing to do with any fines that are
associated with such talking about it. But you know, after
the game, he said, just watch the tape, just watch
the take there was.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
They're allowed, they're allowed to get they're allowed to push.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
On you at the line, and you expect that grabbing
and tossing down when someone starts to separate his and
you see the back of the back chudge like he
like reaches, he's like he's he's going for it. He
sees it, so he sees it and then just doesn't.
It's like, how is how is that possible?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
And I don't know?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know it when you have pressure in a quarterback's face,
it's like, you know, did it?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Did it? Did it not? Did you see it? How
do you not? How do you not see it?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
When a dude just gets pummeled on the face, the face,
his helmet is down over his eyes, like I I
just have a hard time to to believe that. And
then how as a lead is something like that not challengeable.
You know, it's not make the absolute no gray area,
(28:06):
black and white calls should be challengeable, just like anything else.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
No one's saying add more challenges. You're not adding more stoppages.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Just have more things that can be challenged or that
are obvious, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
And that's something that it's like.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
What are we doing to remove from my end of it,
the emotion out of it being a fan? If I
that was a great.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Game, great maybe the best game I've ever seen, I.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Mean, a great supporting event, and for anyone who watched
it to walk away from it thinking most about a
non call on something that was blakeant. We're not talking
to John Anthony, you know, could go either way. Let's
let's debate whether or not it was a good call.
There was no there was no argument, you know, no,
there was. These were two egregious misses. For for that
(28:52):
to be the talking point in the immediate aftermath of
that game, I think people go too far and saying
that something is not good for the NFL, because nobody
based on that is going to stop watching NFL games.
But still as a league, that's not what you want, No,
but it's what they who they are.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It is and it is and you know, and I
know everyone went from really disliking al Michaels to loving
al Michaels by the end. But like they're talking about
that because it's it's it's true. It's at the end
of every one of these games. It feels like we
are sitting here talking about these calls and these decisions
that happen, and it just does feel like it has
been for a long time time for a change to
(29:27):
just open up where you can cover yourself up a
little bit more so that the most egregious things don't
constantly haunt haunt you. The other thing from this game
that I think is interesting is everything that happened surrounding
the punt the third and two, fourth and two, the
two times they ended up in that no man's land
(29:47):
and they punted the one time, and they the two
deep balls to the ball.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
To Jermaine Burton.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I just what's happening with Evan McPherson in that situation,
And then in play calls before those, when you're in
the situations, how you weren't playing for the field goal right,
Like you're thinking, okay, check down here to get in,
get it a little bit closer. When you edit it
was a third and sixteen or whatever it was second sixteen.
(30:12):
How are you not playing to get into field goal
range a one point?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And what are what is going on? How does do multiple.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Three deep balls in these short situations continue to happen?
I get it once, yeah, maybe even twice, and maybe
even twice You're like, look, they're giving it to us,
they're daring me, and and Joe's not going to be scared.
He's gonna I don't understand how how that happens. And
you start to wonder, like how is this something that
(30:46):
you need to worry about? Because that that's for a
guy that's known for processing and making such great decisions consistently,
Like those are decisions of being too aggressive in these
spots where you need to just get the first downs
and it's not like nothing was there. I mean, yeah,
we've all seen it, and Jamar saw it, and I'm
(31:08):
sure and Joe's you know, would want the want a
couple of those decisions back obviously because they didn't connect,
but like it just it just felt for as much
as we praise his decision making, there were some in
this game, sure that were brutal, and they get glossed
over by all the rest of the awesome. But like
he's being held to a level of needing to.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Be absolutely perfect. It's not his fault, it's just where
it is.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And and those are a couple that you look at
and say, oh, man, how do you Is this something
you have to be thinking about every week?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Bypassing the fifty one yarder? That's I can't blame them
because he has struggled from distance, which is why he's
cryptocurrency mac. But what is supposed to make him special
and the reason, yeah, we all love him is he
makes those kicks. And they said thanks, but no thanks
on the fifty one yarder.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
It was the first time. It was the first time
time we saw the trust really tested right.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
And it's like Marvin Lewis, I see better than I hear.
You can tell me you trust money back, but I
saw what you did there.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
But I saw what you did there.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, you didn't put him out there, uh, in situations
where every point was clearly gonna matter, and you had
a couple opportunities to come to come away with no
points on to those drives.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
You know, I mean to punt. Yeah, how did you
get yourself into that spot?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
You know, that's just you can't you can't have it.
And so I you know where that has effects?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, that that has effects next week and the week
after that for when.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
He does go back out there.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I got like a minute here. Part of what made
Burrows performance so awesome was he did it on a
night where he was hit a thousand times. Yeah. Now
Zach has kind of gone out of his way to say, well,
it's not really the offensive line. Yeah, whatever, palace the
offensive line? Why does the offensive line stick now? Especially
on the inside. Cordell Volson had a bad night.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Alice Kappa al Kapa has had a number of bad nights.
I mean there is also there's a domino effect from
Orlando Brown. I mean having to give more attention to
Cody Ford and not be able to just sit comfortably
and know that left side is rock solid, which it
has been with Orlando Brown in this year.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
It exposes other one on ones.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It allows other situations that you can't compensate for not
having Eric all where you're not doing more twelve personnel
and using those guys in there for extra protection, you know,
Zach Moss, you don't have an extra protector to come
in that you can put up and be more a
thumper into those spots, and they're losing more often, and
they just they did. I mean, you know, tell me
all you want to about face mask.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
You know what I see.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I see a dude that planted Alex Kappa right into
Joe Burrow's face and on the two point conversion. So
I think there's a couple there's a domino effect of
these injuries. That's a part of it. Having to hold
the ball a little bit longer to make some of
this stuff happening. Without te Winn quickly. On the other side,
without Orlando blocking, without Zach Moss, you're past protecting back
(34:04):
being in there. I think there is a there is
a domino effect of all of those putting a lot
of pressure on guys that already were a little you know,
they're okay when everything else is there, Yeah, but it
gets a little bit more exposed when they're counted on
to now be the solid.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Ones when they've they've just been okay.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Well you've been better than okay. Oh thanks, yeah, you're welcome. Thanks,
Enjoy Los Angeles. I will I will back to so Far,
back to so Far for the hours time. I'm sure
we'll be talking about that won't come up at all.
It'll be a bad storyline this week, you know. I mean,
I mean Ron Torbert was on last night.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Awkward to watch Ron Torbert throw flags at so Far,
I'm sure for people. So I'm sure it will be
awkward being back there again. But it's uh yeah, first
time back. I get like they move it to the
night games. So we get like two long days in La.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Shut all right, and just spend half of that in traffic.
You'll be good.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Un Swing by Santa Monka.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And and go there and visit you know where I
spend five days.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Say hello to the to the icebox.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, see if it's still there.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
It probably is, if you would, But they probably built
a statue there now in your honor, of just a.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Statue of someone sitting next to it on the ground.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Uh. I don't know if that they've done that, but
if but if you guys happen to be in the
general Santa Monica area, take a picture of it.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, and just maybe I'll see if I can fire
off a radio show real quick. I heard this where well.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You need a laptop, My guy.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You can do it in any parking lot or anybody's
anybody's dry, you can go for anywhere you want to.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Paul Danner Junior. Read his coverage of the Bengals at
the Athletic dot Com. Check out the podcast The Growler
latest episode Baalds Don't Lie out today and follow him
on x at Paul Danner Junior. We're at Buffalo Wild
Wings in Blue ash. We have a lot of ground
to cover between now and six o'clock on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hey
PN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
What's up a good afternoon on my legger? This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. We are thrilled that you are with us.
We're broadcasting today from Buffalo Wild Wings. We're back in
Blue Ash. This is where it all started, back in
early September. There was so much hope and optimism and
joy and excitement. And there still is because it's Buffalo
(00:25):
Wild Wings. There's just maybe not that so much for
the local football team, but you know that can be
rectified in the coming weeks.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Here's what we got.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We got by one get one half off Traditional Wings.
We've got bud Light talls, We've got giveaways, we've got
me we've got a lot of fun. All we need
is you, So get here before six o'clock and you
can win the greatest spangles cooler of all time things
to bud Light. You take advantage of the six for
nineteen ninety nine special, which is two entrees, two apps,
(00:54):
two fountain drinks for just nineteen ninety nine. You cannot
beat that. Paul Danner Juniors, here till four o'clock. We
have a lot to discuss. What is going on. Not much,
It's good.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It is good. To be back here.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You know, this is so much has changed, so much
changed since the last.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Time we were here in Las Yeah, so we were
we were before the opener. Yeah, I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It hadn't even gone sideways there yet.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, we were giving away tickets to the Bengals Patriots
game and there was excitement and uh, and now it's
I don't know what it is because I feel like
a lot of us are doing We're doing two things.
We're sort of sifting through the carnage of the first
ten games, but you know, we're clinging to that the
Broncos and the Colts, those teams aren't that inspiring. And
(01:40):
if they could just get in which kicks into hyperdrive,
if they went on Sunday Night, which is doable.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Absolutely, it's doable. I mean it's both things can be true.
I mean, both things can absolutely be true.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Where you have the fact is your season is wide open.
There there is.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
No reason that this team couldn't follow the Green Bay
Packers blueprint from last year, who were four and six
at this point, and then Jordan Love got hot. Joe
Burrow's already hot, yeah, and their defense got did enough
and they were one of the best teams that had
a legit shot to win the Super Bowl by the
time things really got going in the playoffs. That's not
(02:20):
saying that I believe that's gonna happen or you can
see that happening right now. A lot of things have
to change and go right and what have you. But
they got the hard part taken care of. They got
they got the quarterback playing at an elite level, which
is what will eventually carry this thing.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And so yeah, it's it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Not you know, that's that's almost I mean, that's the
ultimate lowest bar that this team has.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Is that can always be that.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
But it's like, it's when the expectations and the hope
and the reality of what this thing should have been
are just so much higher, it's hard to even cling
onto that and find that as hope because it's more
it almost feels sad that that's where in the position
that you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Paul.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
By the way, it covers the bank for the Athletic
dot Com and has a podcast, the Growler podcast Baalds
Don't Lie. Latest episode dropped a short while ago. Go
find that. I find myself sort of going back and
forth because I was doing this on Sunday watching the
the Broncos lose in what has turned into just typical
Kansas City Chiefs win fashion in twenty twenty four. But good,
(03:20):
I'm moving for Kansas City in that regard. And then
I see the Colts really no match for Buffalo, and
so I'm like, all right, you know in the race
for the seven, things haven't changed, right, Things haven't changed
from Thursday morning to Sunday afternoon, Right, things haven't changed.
They're a game behind Denver, they still have a chance
to play them. Here, they're tied with Indianapolis. That team
(03:40):
is still not very good. And you know what if
they get in, boy, they're dangerous. I know Green Bay
one is a seventh seed last year, but what a
dangerous seventh seed. And so if you're Buffalo, do you
want to play them?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
No?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
If you're Baltimore, do you want to play them? No?
If Kansas City were to slink to the second seed,
you don't want to play them at all. And that
sounds good. But I went into the season talking about
how do they win a championship and can they be
the one seed? And nothing that I've seen through ten
games would suggest that they can do anything beyond just
be a scary low seed. And that wasn't the goal
at the beginning of.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
The season, no, but that's the reality of where you're
at and and all paths are not the same, and
so you can talk yourself into that one. But it's
it's it's set. It's the failure that you have at
this point. I mean, is that it's just you don't
know what you can count on outside of the two
obvious things that you can count on, because every week
(04:34):
it feels like it's almost it's something same but different.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I mean, we've seen them.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Go through this roller coaster now where a couple of
weeks the offense was clunky and the defense got them
wins and then okay, now the offense starts humming again
and maybe the defense is better, and then four straight
touchdown drives again? Is do we I need to do
a real dive? When is how one is the record
for most times in the season that the defense has
allowed for consecutive touchdown drives? How does how this happened
(05:00):
over and over again? I I it's there's this has
got to be some kind of a record. But it's like,
you know, you feel like you have things under control
and then it falls out and it's really I've sort
of dubbed it the Season of the Inexplicable. It's just
how many times are they gonna continue to lose like this? Yeah,
where it just doesn't make any sense. They are they
a better team than four and six? Yeah, I think
(05:21):
there are better than a four and six team. I
think it's wild that every single one of those close
games have knock gone their way. Just law of averages
in the league says, when a game is basically decided
by one play either way, it's gonna be something.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You're gonna finish five hundred in.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Those games, to b zero and five in games decided
by six points or less, to be two and three
in games where you've scored at least thirty three points
when the rest of the league is thirty eight and one.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Like That's.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yes, they're better than four and six, which is what
makes them a scary seven seed, and that's what they
can cling on to. But the fact is that they
have put themselves in those situations. They have been a
team that has not made those plays, and they've played
bro yeah they haven't.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, they call it complimentary football.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I just call it disjoin it, Yeah, where it just
it never feels like it's all together.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It never feels like they're in it to win. It
fre each other.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
The reactions and the body language never feel like anything
resembling the same stuff you saw in previous seasons.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But they were close on Thursday, far up fourteen. They're
playing a really good football game every phase. At twenty
one seven, you've got the football and maybe it's a
lifetime as a Bengals fan. Maybe it's just understanding that
this is how the season has been preordained to go.
As soon as Chase Brown fumble. Now I know that
(06:41):
after that there's a lot to relitigate, and we can.
But as soon as Chase Brown fumbled, you knew, you know,
you know, you just you you knew, And that to
me is it's frustrating for a lot of different reasons.
But for two and a half quarters were they look
like one of the best teams in the NFL. They
were operating in all cylinders offense, Lead Joe was playing
like an MVP. Jamar Chase was unbelievable. And that's not
(07:04):
even taken into account of stuff those two would do afterward,
Right after they blew the lead. But at twenty one seven,
I said it out loud, like, just give me three
on this drive and then I'll take my chances. Right,
give me twenty four to seven or deliver a knockout
blow and we're gonna walk out of here five and five,
maybe a shot in the division, clear eye toward the postseason,
(07:25):
and let's go. And all that evaporated. Ye in about
seventy five minutes.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, I had.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I had leaned over right as that drive was starting
and they started, you know, getting it moving, and leaned
over to Charlie Goldsmith, this is next me in the
press box and said, I mean, are they gonna blow
this thing out?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, just stunned by that, even having that.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And then the next thought was, oh, the one thing
you couldn't do, the one thing like the you could
have punted. Your defense is playing well. Force them to go,
don't give him the momentum. The Ravens had just gotten
booed off the field, the MVP, you know, the MV three,
right and everything.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
That they had been this whole year.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
We're getting booed by the home crowd on the way
out of the last time that this Bengals defense the
Bengals defense had to them down again, and the only
thing you couldn't do was give them the momentum, give
them the short field, immediately get them back into it.
And that's what happened. I mean, But that's what this
season has been. It's been whenever the one thing that
(08:29):
can't happen does and it just seems to happen, and
somebody else does it each and every week, and it's
the sign of losing teams that do losing football.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Well, you and I've watched a lot of losing.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Football from this team over the course of our lives,
and that's what it looks like.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
That's the difference.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
That's the difference is the team that always seems to
just do the wrong thing at the wrong time and
also not be able to stem the tide, not be
able to punch back against the adversity. And I feel
like this team has not had that. Once someone has
punched them, they've just been unable to recover, specifically defensively.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, it's I was gonna ask you. It was the
great wordsmith that you are, Like have you have you
run out of adjectives? Have you run out of descriptors
like gut punch brutal, heart wrenching. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
No, I have settled into inexplicable for the rest of
the year because it's just it's it's almost impossible.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But yeah, you gotta you gotta go with the sarus
like I didn't expect it. Usually it takes me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Till December to have to go thesaurus on on some
on on a theme, right, But I mean I've had
to go the saarus on that, uh you know early.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was probably mid October. Yeah, I mean, it's what
it is.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
But because every week it feels and when when you're
playing the must win game every week.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh they've had like seven musks.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
You can't keep playing the must wins. It's just it's
just that control.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've I've built Sunday Night as the latest must win,
the latest must right before next week's two weeks we
were we were.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Joking that in last night when we did our live
show about we were kind of re racking some of
the takes from our preseason live show down there, and
one of them was our good friends Mike Patralia saying
the opener against New England was a must win. And
I say he may be proven right on that one.
Still it may be proven that because that does feel
(10:28):
like that talk about one that has just hung over
you all year. If you're the Bengals, where you're talking
about the difference between five and five right now and
some of the other things.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That have gone down, well, and for.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Me, and maybe this is just me, I'm sure it's
welcome to you. But the weirdness of having one game
in twenty four days, yeah, just adds to the vibe,
which right now isn't great, but it could change on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Everything can change, right, I mean everything, everything can change.
No homefield Chargers, right well, no question about that, right yeah,
I mean everything changes.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It's a week to week league. I mean the.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Nature and something that I've been trying to really hammer
people is that the nature of the types of games
they're gonna play down the stretch, the types of teams
that are playing, I think does better set up to them.
They're gonna play a lot of games where you're gonna
feel better about the defense just by the nature of
the opponents that you're playing. And so you're gonna play
a lot of games where the defense is gonna make
some plays.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Nearest say, you know, yep, the.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Defense is really starting to figure it out, starting to
make plays. But the question will be can this Bengals offense,
which has put up some big numbers, some of them
by virtue of the Ravens twice and the Commanders early
in the season had put up some of those big numbers,
and they're certainly the Bay Burrows playing everything else. Are
(11:51):
they going to be able to take it to the
next level against these top defenses? Four games against teams
that have defenses in the top three right now? That
will be the question, because I don't know that right now,
and which is a weird thing to say when we
talk about the nature of the way they're built, but
I think that's the predicament that they're in that nothing
feels complete.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I want to ask about what did or didn't happen
yesterday and who the hell Gary Brightwell is. When we
come back, We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Blue Ash
Paul Danner Junior. Follow him on x at Paul Danner Junior.
It's nineteen after three o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC
(12:35):
Health Traffic Center, Oiger Buffalo Wild Wings and Blue ash
is where we are here till six o'clock. Paul Danner
Junior from the Athletic until four. We have got pun
light specials, giveaways and so much more. When you get
off for it, come on out and hang out with us.
We are maybe ninety seconds away from I seventy one.
What happened with Xavion Howard yesterday?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Huh this is.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
A guy who's in a position to turn down offers.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Uh yeah, I think, I mean, I guess he you know,
they brought him in, and first of all, we need
to rewind.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
This is this goes.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I mean to me, you know when we first said, like,
so you're gonna sign a veteran corner, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
After the draft, we remember having the conversation with him, like.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Clearly this is a team that needs a veteran corner.
And I think at that point Howard's name was probably
one of a couple dozen in the conversation. And by
the time you reached camp and you're like, Okay, is there.
He's out there. I know there's off the lot off
field stuff there, but you know, he's got a relationship
(13:49):
with LouAnn Arumo thinks he's great and and could be
a landing spot there you need him. Okay, okay in
training camps like well, that seems like a perfect time
to make a call and maybe Seep come in.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
No, no, no, Week ten, no, no, DA's hill goes down.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah right, okay, Well, now now you're in the.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Market for a veteran corner.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Xavian Howard's out there, he knows lu and Rumoh can
hop in and do some things.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Week ten, the week ten, Now this is the time.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
This is the moment we're like, well, yeah, now, let's
that's why.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's I hope the Hard Knocks cameras were in the room. Yeah,
when somebody like came in and said, you know what we
ought to do, guys, find a veteran corner.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Find a veteran corner, like I would love time, Like,
when was the moment that something someone's been raising their
hand in the corner for like six months and no
one knew they were there?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah me, okay, I have I'm the guy. When what
was the point that they had to get to where
they went? You know, there are other football players out there,
so but does this suggest that they tried to trade
from one like why would you just try to trade
for one instead of getting a guy who's on the street.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It suggests, it certainly suggests that they failed at doing right. Yeah,
I mean, that's that would maybe make it a maybe Okay.
I mean I think that they were having conversations, but
I don't know how hopeful they were that those were
actually gonna pan out. So you end up with this
situation and he comes in and and is gonna have
(15:25):
a number that he wants to play too, And what's
he what's he got to do? I'm gonna go back
to the couch man like whatever, you know, and you
can call me back if you want to, if you
want to actually pay me, or you know, put me
on the real roster, and then we can talk about
what that actually looks like, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And so I I but how.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
How far apart could the two sides? You got a
team that's desperate for corner help or desperate enough to
be kicking the tires on Xagon Howard, and and a
player who's not in the league, Like there could not
have been a huge gulf between what he was looking
for and what they offered.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I'm not gonna be honest with that.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I don't care that they did or didn't get it whatever,
but that dynamic to me is interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I mean it's most of the guys that come, including Gary.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Gary Brightwell Brightwell, yes, this time.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Of year, starting the practice squad, and then eventually you
make their way up. I if that was a part
of the conversation, I can't imagine that would go over
well for a four time pro bowler or Leonard Fournette,
who also was in in for his workout. So how
much of that is reality or was it just not
gonna be? The reason he's still available is because he's
(16:36):
not going to play at a league minimum. He'd rather
just stay at home. I mean, he's made money, right,
so maybe he's like, I'm not gonna come out here
and put my body up for anything, shy of X number.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And that's just what it is.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And that's also very possible and probably part of the
reason why he's still out there, or maybe that they
didn't bring him into this point.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Uh So, I don't you know, I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Ccifically the golf that you're talking about, they do, but
I don't think it was.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It certainly wasn't cut and dry.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I thought Gary Brightwell was the name of my in
law's financial advisor. Yeah, apparently he's an NFL running back. Yeah, no,
he's absolutely So this was also interesting yesterday. Nothing against
Gary bright Well.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
This is really unfortunate for year.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
It is unfortunate for him. And I was saying to
you off air, I was kind of busy yesterday, so
I was just getting caught up on Hey, Leonard Fournette,
they're working him out, and Xavier Howard they're working him out.
And then by the time I kind of wrapped my
brain around that, boom, Gary Brightwell. Yeah. Now, Leonard Fournette
did nothing for him. He played two games for the
Bills last year. Yeah, washed up running back at a
(17:43):
position where it's easy to get washed up at very quickly.
But uh, I guess if you were excited about playoff
Lenny making an appearance in Cincinnati, it's a bit of
a letdown when my in law's financial advisor because the
guy they signed.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well, it's it's just you know, it's it's not his fault.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
No that they were two bigger names that were being
brought in from to a fan base that has been
sitting on the edge of its seat staring at the
bottom line ticker for months, wanting anybody to come.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
And just help this team do anything, really, and.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Finally they think they're gonna get a name that they've
heard of, and then you'll take Cary and you'll like it. Yes, yeah,
you'll take Eric Bright when you like it. I mean,
their their team is, their team is on the pot.
My point is, I don't Xavian Howard isn't changing anything.
Xavian Howard was not going to come in here and
all of a sudden, you're just getting this competent level immediately.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I mean, that's the.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Stupid part about waiting till week ten, is like, at
the very least, there's some time to come in and
get a feel for didn't We just get berated for
an entire offseason about how you gotta have communication even
get on the field out here and how important that is.
But this dude's just gonna show up and he's gonna
immediately like take you to the level that you need
to be at, and we're not gonna talk about communication anymore.
(19:03):
It's just desperate. Everything that's happening is just desperate right now.
All these rotations on defense that are happening of it's
the last drive, and now Cam Taylor BRIT's out, but
DJ Turner was out before, and Josh Newton's like we're
in the Josh Newton portion of the program now right,
Like you've got Josepho's size out here playing over top
of Miles Murphy because he's playing hard. Mike Hilton's coming
(19:26):
off the field and he's the only cornerback it seems
to ever make a play.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Stay there, because that was where I was gonna go
next at the game on Thursday night out loud, I thought,
maybe he got hurt.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Now, so here's this really good.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Slot corner, surehanded tackler who in situations where you would
think is perfect for him, they pull him off the field.
Can you tell me what that one?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It was my first question for Leinn Remo yesterday. I
had why why is Mike Hilton coming off the field?
Like I watch, you know, this defense struggle to put
a competent corner out there except for one guy I
see make plays. And he said, it's matchup driven. It's
mostly on third downs. Uh and and I said, well
he seems to be making a lot of plays. Yeah,
(20:08):
he makes a lot of plays on first, second down.
And he wants to get you know, he talks about
matchups and coverage matchups on other downs and more passing situations.
To me, was you know, and and lots of love
for Mike Hilton that he's had. He was suggesting that
he thinks he's not able to cover as well. And
last year his maybe his numbers were up a little more.
(20:30):
Because I pointed out his snap count for the year
being down drastically from last year, he said, well, we
were rotating into play safety some So what was that
an option? I mean, it's not like safety is on
lock right now. Okay, no, no it doesn't. They think
they're settled there in what's going on in the safety position.
So you know, a guy who I see make more
plays than anybody in that secondary can't stay on the
(20:53):
field for some reason. It's just added to the list.
It's it's a it's a it's another drop in a bucket.
That's really hard to put it all together. It just
feels like grasping at any straw. It's not even we're
gonna change it. I'm not gonna call it rotating anymore.
It's begging anyone, begging anyone to step up and take
a job and become an answer, and he's giving everyone
(21:16):
a chance that possibly can't and nobody's doing it because
he just doesn't have.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It reminds me of The Reds twenty twenty three, starting pitching.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Hey, can you pitch? Can you pitch?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I mean it's kind of what it feels like on
defense right now?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Does Ricky Karcher play safety?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Can we get Can we at least get a Ricky
Karcher game where he gets like three picks?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That would be That would be awesome, That would be
maybe we'll get that some version of that from Gary
bright Well at London Back Kids twenty five away from
four o'clock, We're Bubbalo, Wild Wings and Blue Ash Paul
Danner Jinnior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast with
us till four AUDIESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Spork Station see
three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Do we want to move on? To keep going? And
Boston Elmore? I think you should continue to let me
keep going.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
There Sincy three sixty tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati's.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Es Excuse me of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of Lifetime powertrain
Protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours
for life kelseyshev dot com. Bengals signed any any other
guys that sound like they working a lumber yard.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Let's go through some of the local insurance games and
I can fire them off tea and we'll see. I'll say,
is this a new Bengals practice squad running back or
a local insurance salesman? That'll be our game? Will play
after this?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
There's nothing, no, no issue with insurance. Absolutely, this isn't
about right, no question Bengals getting said to play the
Chargers on Sunday night. That game is live on ESPN
fifteen thirty. College basketball tonight, Xavier is hosting Jackson State
at eight thirty on seven hundred WLW. Kentucky battles Duke
in the Champions Classic in Atlanta. That game is at
(22:57):
nine ish on ESPN fifteen thirty. Miami takes on Maryland
Eastern Shore tonight. If you like coaches shows, the NKU
Coaches Shows tonight at six on ESPN fifteen thirty. The
Scott's Saderfield Radio Show is this evening at eight pm
on Fox Sports thirteen sixty one. U see basketball note
you see junior Dan Skillings underwent what they're calling a
(23:19):
successful minor procedure on his knee yesterday. They expect him
to make a full recovery. His availability will be determined
on a week by week basis moving forward. Absolutely tragic
news from FC Cincinnati. Marco and Gulo passes away at
the age of twenty two, was involved in a horrific
(23:40):
car accident on October sixth. He's just twenty two years old.
The team with a statement released earlier today. The Cyclones
played this morning against the Kalamazoo k Wings and lost
three to and overtime. Morning Hockey Downtown Wow and Hockey tonight,
the Blue Jackets skate against the trying to break a
(24:01):
five game losing streak.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
We're Buffalo Wild wins? Uh? Is there any part of
that game beyond the Chase Brown fumble that you care
to rehash, relitigate, relive two point try?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I mean, we could we could talk about the two
point try in case it hasn't been talked about enough
at this point. Well, I did think, you know, the
the analytical discussion of it was kind of interesting, whereas
in the moment it seemed to me blatantly obvious, and
maybe I just had recency bias of watching Patrick Mahomes
(24:38):
go down in overtime UH to pull out their win
against the Bucks previously, and it's like, you just can't
go to overtime and go turn it into a coin
and because that's that's a coin toss game. That's that's there, right,
one of those two teams is going down and scoring
the touchdown is the way you have to look at it.
And so it felt obvious, but the fact that they
(24:59):
scored so the actual numbers were really turned it into
almost a coin flip because the inferred or implied aggression,
I should say that comes with there being two timeouts
and if you're down one as opposed to being tied,
they're gonna be They're gonna be all out. You're going
forward on fourth down, you're throwing d because you know
you've got to get day of Justin Tucker, you know.
(25:21):
Because so my my take on that game is even
if they get the two point conversion, they still.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Lose, possibly possibly like that because everybody if they would
have won, would they have So it's like it's interesting
because on Monday night we had a similar situation. Yeah,
right with the Bucks and Chiefs, and I think it's
Seth Walter of ESPN's Analytics sent a tweet out immediately
(25:48):
afterward that said, you know, essentially this is kind of
a fifty to fifty decision. Wasn't a huge upswing in
when probability had they gone for to and made it
versus kicking the pat and going over time, And so
I assumed that was the case there. I made it
very simple for me. I wanted them to go for it.
Number One, he's not coaching scared. We can cross that
(26:09):
off right. Number Two, if I go for two and
I get it, I've got to stop them once. If
I kicked the pat, I've got to stop them once
in regulation and maybe again in overtime. And they're not
doing that. So I'll roll the dice and maybe I
can stop them once.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
There's almost no game in your life if you're Zach
Taylor that you shouldn't say give me one play in
Joe Burrow. Yes, right with especially this year, Yes, where
you just say give me one play in Joe Brow.
Now the calls that did not happen on that uh,
you know, I sort of you know, joked around with
(26:49):
Mike GIESICKI a bit off the record of just like,
is that the worst the worst like non call you've
ever been a part of in your life?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You know? And he won to know.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
He wants nothing to do with any fines that are
associated with such talking about it. But you know, after
the game, he said, just watch the tape, just watch
the take there was.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
They're allowed, they're allowed to get they're allowed to push.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
On you at the line, and you expect that grabbing
and tossing down when someone starts to separate his and
you see the back of the back chudge like he
like reaches, he's like he's he's going for it. He
sees it, so he sees it and then just doesn't.
It's like, how is how is that possible?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
And I don't know?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know it when you have pressure in a quarterback's face,
it's like, you know, did it?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Did it? Did it not? Did you see it? How
do you not? How do you not see it?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
When a dude just gets pummeled on the face, the face,
his helmet is down over his eyes, like I I
just have a hard time to to believe that. And
then how as a lead is something like that not challengeable.
You know, it's not make the absolute no gray area,
(28:06):
black and white calls should be challengeable, just like anything else.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
No one's saying add more challenges. You're not adding more stoppages.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Just have more things that can be challenged or that
are obvious, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
And that's something that it's like.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
What are we doing to remove from my end of it,
the emotion out of it being a fan? If I
that was a great.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Game, great maybe the best game I've ever seen, I.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Mean, a great supporting event, and for anyone who watched
it to walk away from it thinking most about a
non call on something that was blakeant. We're not talking
to John Anthony, you know, could go either way. Let's
let's debate whether or not it was a good call.
There was no there was no argument, you know, no,
there was. These were two egregious misses. For for that
(28:52):
to be the talking point in the immediate aftermath of
that game, I think people go too far and saying
that something is not good for the NFL, because nobody
based on that is going to stop watching NFL games.
But still as a league, that's not what you want, No,
but it's what they who they are.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It is and it is and you know, and I
know everyone went from really disliking al Michaels to loving
al Michaels by the end. But like they're talking about
that because it's it's it's true. It's at the end
of every one of these games. It feels like we
are sitting here talking about these calls and these decisions
that happen, and it just does feel like it has
been for a long time time for a change to
(29:27):
just open up where you can cover yourself up a
little bit more so that the most egregious things don't
constantly haunt haunt you. The other thing from this game
that I think is interesting is everything that happened surrounding
the punt the third and two, fourth and two, the
two times they ended up in that no man's land
(29:47):
and they punted the one time, and they the two
deep balls to the ball.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
To Jermaine Burton.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I just what's happening with Evan McPherson in that situation,
And then in play calls before those, when you're in
the situations, how you weren't playing for the field goal right,
Like you're thinking, okay, check down here to get in,
get it a little bit closer. When you edit it
was a third and sixteen or whatever it was second sixteen.
(30:12):
How are you not playing to get into field goal
range a one point?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And what are what is going on? How does do multiple.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Three deep balls in these short situations continue to happen?
I get it once, yeah, maybe even twice, and maybe
even twice You're like, look, they're giving it to us,
they're daring me, and and Joe's not going to be scared.
He's gonna I don't understand how how that happens. And
you start to wonder, like how is this something that
(30:46):
you need to worry about? Because that that's for a
guy that's known for processing and making such great decisions consistently,
Like those are decisions of being too aggressive in these
spots where you need to just get the first downs
and it's not like nothing was there. I mean, yeah,
we've all seen it, and Jamar saw it, and I'm
(31:08):
sure and Joe's you know, would want the want a
couple of those decisions back obviously because they didn't connect,
but like it just it just felt for as much
as we praise his decision making, there were some in
this game, sure that were brutal, and they get glossed
over by all the rest of the awesome. But like
he's being held to a level of needing to.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Be absolutely perfect. It's not his fault, it's just where
it is.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And and those are a couple that you look at
and say, oh, man, how do you Is this something
you have to be thinking about every week?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Bypassing the fifty one yarder? That's I can't blame them
because he has struggled from distance, which is why he's
cryptocurrency mac. But what is supposed to make him special
and the reason, yeah, we all love him is he
makes those kicks. And they said thanks, but no thanks
on the fifty one yarder.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
It was the first time. It was the first time
time we saw the trust really tested right.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
And it's like Marvin Lewis, I see better than I hear.
You can tell me you trust money back, but I
saw what you did there.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
But I saw what you did there.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, you didn't put him out there, uh, in situations
where every point was clearly gonna matter, and you had
a couple opportunities to come to come away with no
points on to those drives.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
You know, I mean to punt. Yeah, how did you
get yourself into that spot?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
You know, that's just you can't you can't have it.
And so I you know where that has effects?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, that that has effects next week and the week
after that for when.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
He does go back out there.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I got like a minute here. Part of what made
Burrows performance so awesome was he did it on a
night where he was hit a thousand times. Yeah. Now
Zach has kind of gone out of his way to say, well,
it's not really the offensive line. Yeah, whatever, palace the
offensive line? Why does the offensive line stick now? Especially
on the inside. Cordell Volson had a bad night.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Alice Kappa al Kapa has had a number of bad nights.
I mean there is also there's a domino effect from
Orlando Brown. I mean having to give more attention to
Cody Ford and not be able to just sit comfortably
and know that left side is rock solid, which it
has been with Orlando Brown in this year.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
It exposes other one on ones.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It allows other situations that you can't compensate for not
having Eric all where you're not doing more twelve personnel
and using those guys in there for extra protection, you know,
Zach Moss, you don't have an extra protector to come
in that you can put up and be more a
thumper into those spots, and they're losing more often, and
they just they did. I mean, you know, tell me
all you want to about face mask.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
You know what I see.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I see a dude that planted Alex Kappa right into
Joe Burrow's face and on the two point conversion. So
I think there's a couple there's a domino effect of
these injuries. That's a part of it. Having to hold
the ball a little bit longer to make some of
this stuff happening. Without te Winn quickly. On the other side,
without Orlando blocking, without Zach Moss, you're past protecting back
(34:04):
being in there. I think there is a there is
a domino effect of all of those putting a lot
of pressure on guys that already were a little you know,
they're okay when everything else is there, Yeah, but it
gets a little bit more exposed when they're counted on
to now be the solid.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Ones when they've they've just been okay.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Well you've been better than okay. Oh thanks, yeah, you're welcome. Thanks,
Enjoy Los Angeles. I will I will back to so Far,
back to so Far for the hours time. I'm sure
we'll be talking about that won't come up at all.
It'll be a bad storyline this week, you know. I mean,
I mean Ron Torbert was on last night.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Awkward to watch Ron Torbert throw flags at so Far,
I'm sure for people. So I'm sure it will be
awkward being back there again. But it's uh yeah, first
time back. I get like they move it to the
night games. So we get like two long days in La.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Shut all right, and just spend half of that in traffic.
You'll be good.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Un Swing by Santa Monka.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And and go there and visit you know where I
spend five days.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Say hello to the to the icebox.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, see if it's still there.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
It probably is, if you would, But they probably built
a statue there now in your honor, of just a.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Statue of someone sitting next to it on the ground.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Uh. I don't know if that they've done that, but
if but if you guys happen to be in the
general Santa Monica area, take a picture of it.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, and just maybe I'll see if I can fire
off a radio show real quick. I heard this where well.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You need a laptop, My guy.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You can do it in any parking lot or anybody's
anybody's dry, you can go for anywhere you want to.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Paul Danner Junior. Read his coverage of the Bengals at
the Athletic dot Com. Check out the podcast The Growler
latest episode Baalds Don't Lie out today and follow him
on x at Paul Danner Junior. We're at Buffalo Wild
Wings in Blue ash. We have a lot of ground
to cover between now and six o'clock on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hey
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.