11/19/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

11/19/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
For some football. We are burrow to Chase happens here.
This is the official home of the Bengals. ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. What's up, Good afternoon on a Ledger.
We are glad you're here, both in person and joining
us on air. I'm my Ledger. I just said. This

(00:21):
is ESPN fifteen thirtieth, the day we're a Buffalo wild
Wings in Westchester, second time we have been here this year.
It's Tuesday, so we post up at b Dubs. That
means we've got buy one, get one half off traditional Wings.
It means we've got five dollars but light talls. It
means we have giveaways. It means we're giving away more
Bengals Nike golf hoodies. It means we're giving away another

(00:43):
Bengals cooler. It means we need you here. You got
the six for nineteen ninety nine menu, which that's it
with two two entrees plus two two sides plus two
fountain drinks for just nineteen ninety nine. We're here till
five thirty. Today short show UK basketball coming up at
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(01:03):
off at seven o'clock so that pushes us out of
the way a little bit early, but still plenty of
time to get here. And if you're looking for a
place to watch college hoops tonight, you cannot beat B
dubs any one of their area locations, but for our purposes,
the one here in Westchester. Paul Tanner Junior's here. What's
up from the Athletic? How we doing from the Growler podcast?
I am great, Yes, all things considered. How are you?

(01:25):
I'm good?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
You know you said earlier today you came on on
my podcast and we did. You did that from a
parking lot, your second appearance in a parking lot this year,
and I got to give you credit again, resourcefulness, willingness
to do whatever it takes to make your appearance, and
I credit you. We talked after you got off, and
I said, you know, we should probably start coming up
with a tracker and have over the course of the

(01:50):
season where you make the most appearances from home, basement,
studio at iHeart random parking lots and just see where
they all end up. Or you start going to the
same parking lot and people start just waiting for you
to show up there, like the day show in the morning. Yeah,
trying just hangs out there behind waves. You know, maybe
that could maybe that could be the next level that we.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Tape the thing at ten o'clock on Tuesday morning. The
sort of person that on a Tuesday morning at ten
o'clock would be waiting outside someone's card to wave with
them as they do a podcast is I mean, I
think we should welcome them. You'll take anybody who has
a set of years. I get it. But let's be honest, right.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I still appreciate. I appreciated your effort as always.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Fun was good, it was a good conversation, good, good podcast.
Are you you were in Los Angeles for the game
on Sunday? I was, yeah, And so there's a lot
to get to just with that game in itself. Are
you familiar with montacor the Tiger? No? Should? I should?
I be? Well, I think it's it's a good parallel.

(02:53):
First of all, it's the Bengals and Montacord.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
The Tiger, the Tigers a tiger. I get it.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
The tiger was the tiger in the Sigfried and Roy show.
That Yeah, that mauled Roy. Yeah, and I've always envisioned
this scenario, so as as legend has it Montacre mauled
Roy and and brought him to with an inch of

(03:18):
his life because he got hit Roy hit the Tiger
on the nose with the microphone. And I've always envisioned
this scenario where like at the end of every show,
Montacor is like goes back to the Tiger. Pennanty's like,
hits me with that damn microphone one more time, hits
me with that damn microphone one more time. Like there
was just a point and the other Tigers could see it.

(03:38):
So when they heard that Montakor snap, they were like, dude,
he said, So, I'm watching Jamar Chase in the locker
room the other day, and he reminded me of Montacor
the Tiger the night before he killed Roy, where he's
like you could see it, you could see it, where
it's like, you know what, one more game like that
where he and the offense are awesome and they still
lose and the next opponent being the Steelers, and just

(04:01):
all the emotion that goes into that. Like I'm not
saying he's gonna choke anybody or maul them or bring
them to with an inch of his life, but what
I saw, what I listened to both your scrum audio
with Jamar watching Joe's body language, listening to t Higgins
on the Postgame Show with Dave Lapham like, if this continues,

(04:25):
somebody's gonna snap. And what I saw on Sunday were
some guys who were doing everything they could to not snap,
and it's just gonna take one more game like that.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, I mean this was I remember maybe the last
time that we were here in Westchester. It was September. September, Yeah,
I remember. You know, we start outlining, Okay, here's how
this works. Players only meet, get to it, vexed, and
then and then then it's like, okay, the next step
you go through your checking all of the boxes of
the bad season, with one of the last big boxes

(04:56):
that you check is the locker room blow right. And
it was always going to be Jamar to be the
one to do it, because he's always the one that's
willing to say stuff and has the most clout to
do so.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
And let's be clear something night wasn't a blow up,
but it was no, no, no getting there. No.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I mean, look, I the interesting thing about that for
me was because I was just curious.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I had had enough of everybody telling.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Me, we got to finish. What does that mean? Someone
tell me what that means to you? And I was
just asking like, what does the finishing mean? And he
took it directly to coaching. I did not see that coming. Yeah,
I thought that was That was not me being like,
do you feel like the coaching at the end of no,
that was how do you finish better? Don't ask me

(05:44):
it's about coaching. You know, I'm here on the field whatever.
All that stuff as ech well, that is that's a
player showing where his head is at about that situation.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
That it ain't me.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
And that was surprising because a lot of times guys
can get led there and things can go in a
way where they're just answering the question. But that was
not what happened here. This was clearly something that is simmering.
And also, I mean, yeah, I think it's always We
also have seen Jamar spout off after games before about
stuff and he's not afraid to say that, So I

(06:18):
don't I don't necessarily think that it shows some like
deep rooted disbelief in.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
That, but frustration.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's just this happens every season where it's like this.
The expectations were high some one specifically, when one side
is really pulling their weight and the other isn't as much,
you're gonna have these types of blow ups, and it's
just mind blowing, Like if you can back away from
it for a second, because we spend so much time

(06:48):
explaining it and understanding the failures of this team, just
to splice all of the endings of these games together
and say that they're gonna lose all of them. Yeah,
all of them. They're not going to win a single
one of these games where they make fifteen winning plays
towards the end, but they just hemorrhage in other areas.

(07:10):
It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy to believe that in
this league, where it always is a coin flip in
close games for everybody, that they would lose all of them.
A team of that caliber, with that level of star
play happening.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I just I want them to win in the worst way.
But I'm going to be intrigued by what it sounds
like when you guys go in there. If the losing continues, it's.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
To me, It's it's the voices are gonna are about
to go to me.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
It's become the storyline of the rest of the season,
does do they get this thing turned around or does
this continue to the point that, uh, oh we have
something that we haven't seen here in quite a while.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, well, you get into eventually, you know where you
eventually and up in the savior butt season, and you
get a lot of people trying to explain things about
why it wasn't them once they realized that there's no
sense in holding those in anymore, and it.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
All start coming out.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, I'm not saying I am not saying I'm
working on this, but the light I've heard about this is,
you know, the sign of the level of how bad
your season was, how long it takes for the athletic
to run the behind the scenes story.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Now they tell us.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, that's like what at what point of the season
did that happen? Shows just how bad it was or
how ugly it was. Again, I'm not saying I'm writing that,
but I it's sort of That's what happens is everybody
that you've been talking to all year that was either
saying things quietly or not saying them at all, now
very willing to say them because they their personal interests
become at stake, and there's a lot of icy situations

(08:50):
around this team that have been bubbling all year.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I don't expect it to get quieter. No, would
you would you be surprised if on his way out
you wrote predictions for the season and you wrote about
T higgins departure where he has an emotional sendoff. Do
you think that could include a summation of what's happened
this season where he has zero blanks given as opposed

(09:17):
to somebody who's going to come back next season. No, No,
I could see it.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I don't think that will if you just look at
one how much he has on the line, there could
be a truth telling of his side of the story,
maybe on some things, but he's I think he's proven
himself to not be one that wants to go that route,
to not be one that wants to, you know, air
the grievances, and especially not before the biggest contract of

(09:45):
his life is about to happen.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
In free agency.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
So I would anticipate there would be a bit more
of a reflection on five honest time, more than it
would be like, Okay, this is about me getting mad
at people that did that wronged me. I don't see
him as the type that will go there one number one.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I could see. I mean you could see. You've heard it, Yeah,
you've heard And it was like that his second game
as a pro. People forget about that. After that game
against Chicago, he was talking about coaches and play calling
after his second game as a prow like he's the
one guy that just isn't afraid to say it because
he's not scared of Joe, and he's not scared of

(10:30):
anybody really, and he's just and he's unfiltered and not
afraid to be himself. And now he carries weight in
the organization as they figure out how the hell they're
going to pay.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Uh did you think we would start the show by
talking about montacor the Tiger?

Speaker 2 (10:44):
I hoped, I mean, I show up every The name
threw me off. If you just would have said the
Sigfred and Roy Tiger.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
The name.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
I just I had forgotten about.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
This during the the like the absolute grips of the pandemic,
when we were making up like we don't have sports,
what are we gonna do? We did like video footage
you know exists but we haven't seen yet, And that's
at the top of my list. You want to see.
I don't want to see like the entire like it
gets me too graphic after a while. But I want
to see the point where the tigers like I feel

(11:15):
like I'm done. I feel like it's quick.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Video. You know. He was in the pen that morning
and they took him out and he's like, boys, he
hits me with that microphone. He hits me with that microphone.
It's on. Yeah, it's exactly what happened, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
And everybody's looking, all the other tigers looking at each other.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like sure whatever, yeah, you'll see yes. And then he
then he came back. Because I've read the history, like
he came back and they said he had a savory dinner.
It's like, yeah, Betty did, and Butt the tigers are like,
you're the man. The amount of cred he had wanted
to do that for years.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
What's happened to him since?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Do we know? Montacort died in twenty fourteen and Roy
passed away I think three years ago. I know a
little bit too much about it. Is seventeen minutes after
three o'clock reight Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester. Paul Danner Junior,
Theathletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast latest one, out out
and up and on x at Paul Danner Junior. We

(12:14):
have a lot to get to between now and four o'clock.
The Guarantee that I wish didn't come true coming up
next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station, Cincinnati's ESPESPN
fifteen thirty one. Like Paul Danner Juniors with me, We're
a Buffalo wild Wings in Westchester here until five thirty
today Paul covers the Bengals for The Athletic and also

(12:35):
you can catch his podcast, The Growler Podcast, latest episode,
Balls Don't Lie, featuring me from the parking lot of
a Greater's Good Stuff. And I want to spend a
few minutes on a topic we talked about today on
your podcast. Here in a minute. I rarely make guarantees,
yeah to anybody who would listen. When Evan McPherson lined

(12:55):
up for that second kick, I guaranteed he wasn't gonna
make it. Yeah, I hate this.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
You knew the second one was Yeah, when the first
one after the first one, you're like, you're gonna try
them back out there again. You already know you know
what's happened this season. You saw what just happened. It
would have been Honestly, I'm with you, I would have
been shocked if that one were well.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
And when you line up for the first I'm like,
this could be a cool story. You know, he makes
the kick, they'd have to hold on to win the game.
But he makes the kick that kind of jump starts
the season on the road, a long kick fifty one yards.
Like in my head, I'm like, this would be kind
of cool to talk about. But when he missed it,
I'm like, he's not gonna win this one on a kick.

(13:35):
He came back out for the second one, So I
think we all understand they're not going to snap their
fingers and move on. They're not gonna throw their hands
up and go we're moving on because Evan's had a
few bad games. But there does have to be a
point where the performance you get, you get to this

(13:55):
point of no return where you go, we we got
to do something. Yeah, what's that point? Next year? I think?
I mean, I.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Still don't feel like he's gonna go out there and
be and miss everything the rest of the season.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
I don't think that will be the case. I do
think he'll be able to work through it. I mean
you talk to people, is it do they bring up
the operation or is it just so?

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Evan's yeah, I mean this has come up before as
they were talking through some of the stuff that has
gone on. Is we I mean we sat and we
must have talked to Darren Simmons about this for fifteen
to twenty minutes a couple of weeks ago about just
the entire process after we had talked to Evan that
day and he's like, yeah, you know it is it
is different. There is some time on task that's a

(14:44):
part of the operation, everybody getting used to each other
and having that confidence in the guy. And I do
think that there is a lot of thinking going on,
which is probably the worst thing that you can do
in these types of situations. I don't mean that they
shoul and be trying to address the problems, but in
that when the kicker's out his best, he's probably not

(15:04):
thinking about any of it. You're not thinking of it.
It's like, you know, kicking is so much like golf.
You always end up back there is like the more
you're thinking about okay, elbow string back your next thing,
you know, you like through your club in the trees
like so you just.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
But maybe he should try to do what I do
when I golf, which is drink. That would be you.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Know, I mean, it's only one step further than going
out and watching the halftime show during the Super Right,
It's like, yeah, you might as well just he should
have been having a drink while he was doing that too.
Maybe now, maybe, now, maybe that.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Is the key. I'm not totally against that at this point.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
I think the Bengals would take anything that puts the
balls through the upright when you consider how different the
season looks if he does that, or if there's trust
in him doing that. So there's a couple of different
levels that and look, so many of these it's it's
such a big part of these, so many of these
games when you look at, oh, what's the different between

(16:00):
the fact that they were, you know, the previous three
seasons they were fourteen and twelve and one score games
above average in the league. Uh, and now they're one
and six. It's like, well, a lot of those were
confidence in the kicker. Maybe think about how many games
we said man Evan making those kicks changed everything right
over and over and over again. He was such a
game changer for them. And winning those close games and

(16:22):
being special teams, being the difference in hidden yards and
all that stuff and hidden points and winning those close games.
And they're just not getting those. They're not getting those now.
And that's certainly, you know, the defense isn't the number
one reason, but it's certain you know that is playing
a major role.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Well, I watched Chris Boswell make six including two from distance,
Justin Tucker miss and Justin Tucker Miss. It's difference in
the game. And so when they when they drafted McPherson,
the comp we all made was Justin Tucker. And you know,
my my thing was as a Bengals fan, I've watched
the Ravens win nineteen to thirteen. I've watched the Ravens
win games like that where holy crap, we kept him

(16:58):
out of the red zone, but they still scored them
those possessions because of their kicker. And so, you know,
you could certainly say, too much conversation is being spent
on Evan out of the Chargers game. That's not why
they lost, sure, but you gotta win games in a
lot of different ways. And the beauty of Evan McPherson
early in his career was you could win a game
like that, like the one the Steelers won on Sunday,

(17:20):
that now they cannot win.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, you know, the biggest difference between the current set
up and the previous one is offense continues to be
good and play this very similar level, if not better
than it's ever been, you know, missing some.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Field goals and the red zone.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I mean, the defense in the red zone over the
previous years had been the saving grace right yards, It
was all about hey, yards are yards?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Are fine? Talking about yards? No points? Right, keep the
points down.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well this now it's yards and points, and and every
time they get down there, the teams are scoring. Those
were those are three points on field goals, four points
on on And that's the difference.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's that, That's that simple.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
I mean I was running through that last week and
they ended up doubling down on it. But they on
in the red zone, third and fourth downs. They hadn't
had a stop since Carolina's goal line stand. I mean
that wasn't because of a penalty. The Eagles had scored
a touchdown, but then they got called back by an
offensive hold. And they had one game against Cleveland where
they could finally got to stop on third down, Nick

(18:20):
Chubb scored on fourth down, and then that happened again.
Uh here against Chargers. Every time this was supposed to
that's supposed to be that that's a Louanna remote calling card, right,
that was a defensive calling card.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Is get down on the red zone and bam.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
They get stops, they get doing it stops, they get turnovers,
and especially in the second half, they make these they
do all these things and get these stops and then
all of a sudden, it's just it's just not happening anymore.
And you lose every game by one, three, six, all
these one score games. Those are the points. Those are
the points, and that's the difference between winning and losing.
And then you lose, and then you overanalyze everything properly

(18:55):
as you should turn out of every rock obviously, but
like sometimes it's simpler just you're you're losing some of
these points that you were previously getting, and you know
in that there's a lot of different factors to why
that's happening, but I mean it, there's there's your points.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
When we come back, I'm gonna ask you to put
yourself in the shoes of a former NFL player. I
do it all the time. Yeah, yeah, regular exercise is.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
The least athletic NFL player of all time right now,
it looks like Trent Irwin was return Punks.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
To be honest with you, he runs like me, my guy, dude,
it runs like me every time. But he's a current
NFL player.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's true. Yeah, so dynamic. I mean he he you know,
we used to do this with IRV Smith. I would
ask you like, does he run like and I make
his shoes between like does he run like a guy
with a refrigerator distrapped to his back or a guy
who looks like he got shot in the ankle? We
could do that. We could revive this game with what
is what is on his back? Yeah? All right, well

(19:53):
I'll put that in the notes here. But there's a
former NFL player. I want you to I want you
to put yourself in his shoes. We come back. It's
three thirty Paul day Inner junior. He's on x AT
in her junior. We're a Buffalo wild Wings in Westchester
on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station sixty with Tony Pike.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Do we want to move on?

Speaker 1 (20:14):
We have to keep going and Boston Elmore.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
I think you continue to let me keep going there.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Sincy three sixty tomorrow, which twelve noons on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati's.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
ESPN Chevale Home of Lifetime Pow. We're trying protection guarantee
credit approval from their family to yours for life, kelseyschev
dot com. Terren's playing Will Smith. He gets into merricka.
You were at the Bengals toad any news, anything, anything
of substance happened.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
I was legitimately gonna open talking about men in Black
like man, Yeah, good on men in Black for surviving
this long in the inter knows the rule yeah, Will.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Smith after nineteen ninety one, no pitpoll. Those are the
only two musical rules we have. Becaues personal literally play
anything else.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
CEO's personal at this not really personal.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's just I we're gonna have to have a meeting
with Arran tomorrow, call him in right now. News.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
I don't know that there was a DJ Turner obviously.
I think we already have more confirmation of the broken clavicle.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
More.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Really, they really are excited about the way that Josh
Newton played understandably, and they feel like they're hoping that
maybe they found something, and I mean it was he
made an actual play, which is more than you could
say for anything else. Was going on a lot more detail,
I think on the Cam Taylor Britt benching and situation
from Lou Narumo. We spoke with him a little bit

(21:33):
this afternoon, just kind of specifically on essentially he played
such a major role in stuff, that stuff that they
had gone over all week, the two touchdowns back to
back on the one up the scene and then the
Quinton Johnston one where you see everyone looking like what
happened here? Well, He's like, basic, it's the stuff that

(21:54):
we went over, stuff that we we talked about all week,
and so that the stuff that happened on the sideline
that you see that was kind of the stirring up
of that A is like we went over this, we
talked about.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
This is this is it?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
And Cam just not where he needs to be on
on the one he needs to be the one that's
inside and the other one everybody's doing the same thing
and Cam Taylor Bridge just running across the formation, just
going the other way. He's like, and that's something that's
something that we've done. He's done hundreds and hundreds of times,
and it's just the inconsistency is just is just obviously
maddening and maddening, and at that point that's why everything.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
That happened happened.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, and so but he's got to go back in
there now without DJ Turner and later but they're back,
he's got to play and so there there it stands.
But other other than that, news wise, off top of
my head, on't I can't think of anything else that
was great Newsy all right?

Speaker 1 (22:42):
College basketball tonight you see's at NKU the Bearcat broadcast
six thirty on seven hundred WLW. Here Jim and Rick.
Jim and Rick on the NKU call on fifty five
k or cee UK versus Lipscomb tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Also tonight, Ohio State battles Evansville and the Miami RedHawks
control their own destiny. Two wins and they'll qualify for

(23:04):
the back championship game. RedHawks take on Northern Illinois, the
team to beat Notre Dame earlier this season. Later on tonight,
if you were xaviing Howard so so since the Bengals
worked him out and offered him a deal, but not
enough or not what Xavion was looking for. And since then,
the Bengals have had to bench Cam Taylor Britt and

(23:25):
they've had another corner get hurt for the season. And
you get the phone call from the Bengals. What is your.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Response, Yesterday's price is not today's price.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, because I got to call him now, right, I mean,
gonna call somebody. Gotta call somebody, right, I mean there's
there is no question.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I I don't you know, if you weren't willing to
do it before the.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Seasons, only more lost, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
So I mean again we go back to how is it?
How are we even at this point where then you're
just now having this conversation. I mean it's there was
a year. Do you remember the year that Dusty stood
by Drew Stubbs in the leadoff spot for year long,
like all year, and everybody all year is like, man,

(24:12):
like wow, there's got to be somebody else that could play.
And then they got into the playoffs and it was
like the eighth or ninth inning of the elimination game
and finally like sub Drew Stubbs out.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
It's like, now, yeah, now's the moment. You can't you
can't at this point, it doesn't matter, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I feel like that's sort of this is like
the Drew Stubbs vocation of this situation, like now, okay, cool,
you're doing it now, but like, this is this is
what should have happened such a long time ago. You're
so far behind it, and yeah, he's got leverage now
because you're now even more desperate and even more behind

(24:49):
the aphoss So somehow just say no with this.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
But somehow they've managed to lose leverage to a player
who's not even in the league. No, it is. Is
there a more Bengals thing that could happen? They've somehow
been backed into a corner by a guy who doesn't
have a job.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Doesn't have a job.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
This is their suitors, as far as I can tell,
this is This is not how well run NFL franchises
do things. Man, it's not no, it's not no.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
This entire situation is bad news.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I you know, I will see.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Maybe they're maybe with one less week of game checks,
they're more willing to go there. I have no idea,
but there is a spot, it's going to be available,
and they need for a cornerback, so yes, it should
be obvious in the place that they should go, whether
they were going there or not.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
I guess we'll see your podcast today. It was a
good conversation about lou Ana Roumo and his future and
what the Bengals may or may not do with him,
and so I want people to go listen to it.
I was a part of it. I don't know if
you and Jay continued it, but I was kind of
taken aback a little bit by the sort of definitive

(25:56):
tone you took and talking about like this is going
to end well for.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Lou Yeah, I just there. It comes from this in
that when you analyze this situation, and they will at
the end of the year, and there's other variables that
will happen, but they are in a spot where they
have to get more out of all of these young players,

(26:20):
and lou has had two years to get more out
of all of these young players. They are not in
a place financially with Burrow and Chase's money coming that
they can go buy a defense again, which is what
happened essentially when they rebuilt it the first time, and

(26:43):
these young players have to develop and all of the
picks that we have spotlighted here for a few years
now when they started spending all of their high capital
on young defensive players.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
And when you have this.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Much time to develop them and it's not getting through
and they're regressing, you're not gonna you can't replace them
all with mid tier veterans and think that it's gonna
suddenly work out. You have to get the most out
of them, and the only way to do that is
probably to get.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Them a new voice.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Or it feels like there's a disconnect that's not happening.
And that doesn't mean that leu an Rima isn't still
a good coordinator or wouldn't quickly pick up a job
somewhere or anything like that. It just feels like, when
you're talking about how this thing has to change, the
defense has to do better, you can't.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
You can't just have two years like this.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And when when across the league, that's what it is like,
coordinators churn. You either get fired or you get promoted.
You get fired or you get promoted a little less
so on the defensive side of the ball, just because
of the nature of promotions on the offensive side in
the NFL, but still there's a reason for that. If
you're not connecting with guys, the voice has to change
to try to get people to get more and feel

(27:59):
like they have somebody else that sees them or sees
things differently or connects with them differently. And especially when
you have seasons like this one where it's just a
constant state of rotating and changing and benching and and
everybody feels like it's not working for them, and the
person that's making all those decisions.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Is that person is that guy.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
That's when you have to make a change when it
feels like it's a waste of his time and out
of their time to keep.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Trying to make that work.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
I've also had seasons where it felt like they're you know,
in twenty twenty, I didn't necessarily felt like there was
a great path for.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Him out of it.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, but they believe that the players weren't good enough
in his and they didn't have that in place yet.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
And I understood that side of things like they didn't.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
There was a mess in a lot of ways in
that point in time, and they give them more of
his players than it will work, and it did.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
And they were right.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
It was that and he does have such a good
way of doing this, but that's not the case. Now,
this isn't a place where they just hand you draft
picks and you have had no influence. You helped find
your guys. They found guys to fit your system. They
gave you all of these young guys, develop them and
grow the next core of this team. And the fact

(29:12):
that they've failed and aggressed a little bit, there's only
there's one place that it really that that is at
the feet of right now, and that makes it that
seems a really tough thing to see survive. To run
it back at this level of disappointment seems a really,
really really hard sell, and it just feels like something

(29:37):
new is needed there. And that's not to say that
that's definitely gonna happen, but when you know that that's
the root of this whole thing, it seems really hard
to see it. You know, just get run back next
year and everybody say, sounds great, Yeah, something's gonna have
to happen.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Good conversation on Paul's podcast about that very topic. I
watched folks on social media last night. Or they're always
fighting about something always, Oh, I mean, it doesn't matter what,
they're always fighting times they.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Fight about social media about you know, now we fight
about which platform you're on and what that says about you,
which I am not allowed to go somewhere or leave
or be on something that's great?

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Is that that's the most social media If a were
gonna fight about which ones you're allowed to do, you
don't care.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Don't care what I do? Right, who cares? Last line,
everybody was fighting about Joe Mixon, so we have to
talk about him. Oh yeah, yeah, your favorite tablets.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Let's relitigate again.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, fourteen away from four o'clock. He's Paul Danner Junior
covering the Bengals for The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester. ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station. Hey, it's ma legger. Let me tell
you about one of my Paul dan We're at Buffalo Wilds,
west Chester. Before we talk about Joe Mixon for the
four million time. Yeah, can you explain this Bengals Cowboys

(30:58):
Simpson's thing because I wasn't aware of it?

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I mean I'm.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Gonna watch the Simpsons broadcast. Yeah, yeah you will? Good? Yeah, yeah, sure,
it might be better than watching the real against that
Bengals defense. Yeah. Maybe Cooper Rush could light them up.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Uh yeah, I don't. So, yeah, that's an alternate broadcast
that they've mean, there's a lot of production, as you
might imagine, that goes into having to create an alternate
broadcast with certain with players, you're gonna have all this
stuff that's gonna happen, So they a lot of background
they had to do on that to be ready. So
you can't switch it out. You can't flex it out

(31:37):
because they have to the stuff. They've recorded and done
all of that stuff well ahead of time. So it's
one of the few games that's locked in. So it's
really unflexible for that fact, they really want to do
this alternate broadcast thing of nobody certainly they might actually
do better just running old Simpsons episodes instead of the

(31:57):
game at this point when you consider the direction that
these two teams are going. But uh yeah, it's it's
it's gonna be there Monday night football.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Okay, very good. You want to talk about Joe Mixon.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Sure, I mean, I gotta tell you, I really kind
of thought that perhaps him leaving would take him off
of the local sports talk.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
But I get it, I get it.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
The dudes the dude's playing well.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
He's playing well. What's interesting to me about him is
what what I see when I watch him play for
the Texans doesn't mesh with what some of the advanced
metrics suggest, which looked like his metrics last year here. Yeah,
success rate, I think yards before contact pretty much the same.

(32:41):
Nice averaging more yards per carry. But when you look
at and if I was a prepared host, the piece
of paper I jotted all this down on at six
o'clock this morning, wouldn't be sitting on my kitchen table,
but I was. I've watched him a lot. They've been
in high profile games. I watched him last night. He
was terrific. I watched his postgame interview with Scott van Pelt.
What my eyes tell me is that's a guy the

(33:02):
Bengals could use. What the numbers say is he's in
many respects kind of the same guy. I yeah, I
think so.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
But the way that they're using him, I think the
advantage of Joe Mixon was always as a volume.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
He has six more attempts per game.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
There he does he people get sick of trying to
tackle that guy, and that was something that that the
Bengal staff would say often is that that's the advantage
of Joe Mixon is people just get sick of trying
to tackle him.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
He is just he's so hard to bring down.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
He's just so physical and tough, and so he is
great in the wide zone system that they're running there
and as a high volume carrier and the way that
he can he can wear people down over the course
of games, and you've seen that, and he's obviously tough
in so many situations. That was their point is that
they're not ever going to be a high volume running team,
which is his strength. He's not playing to the strength

(33:54):
of Joe Burrow, and so that's part of it. I
also think he's also motivated in a way that he
hasn't ever, hasn't been in a long time, and I
think that's part of it.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
And he's clearly playing like a motivated guy.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, he's playing like he's out for revenge on everybody
that ever said that he wasn't good anymore.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
And it shows and good for him.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
One of the first things that I was told after
the Joe mixing thing happened was it might end up
making it look bad because it's actually a great spot
for him. And there's a reason why they were willing
to trade and wanted to make sure that they they
got him because I think they felt like he was
going to be a fit.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't know that even they at that.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Point thought they were going to be getting what they've
been getting from Joe Mixon this year. But yeah, obviously,
obviously it's work.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I got like, three minutes here. If the Bengals on
their last offensive drive score and then in whatever amount
of time is left, the Chargers don't and they win
the game, how much of your story after the game
is about the team bonding they did in so cow
Ough Zero.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I was like, you know, if we needed to come
up with some good team bonding things for them, I
wanted the idea like I want to see this entire
team doing a ropes course in Venice Beach together and
trust falls, you know, and and trying to help each other.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
And that's what That's what I that's what I have.
A buddy that is the company he works for made
him go on some retreat like that, and I said, like,
that's my version of hell on Earth. Nobody like corporate retreat.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
My point was, know this, when you ever you've ever
been in a workplace and and they start talking about like.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Look, we I think maybe things aren't going so well.
I know we're gonna do We're gonna.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Spend a little bit of extra time together. We're gonna
go away that night, Oh my god. And so we're
gonna go and do something. You know what, It turns
into a team bonding, that turns into complaining time.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
That's when you.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Start you get quiet off of the side. I got
a lot of extra time to kill. Let's talk about
Jones TPS reports.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
But here's the thing, Like, because you know, people made
fun of Zach for talking about it, and I said,
like if it's organic and and guys who because they're
all in the same hotel, decide we're all gonna go
to dinner together. Like there's ancillary benefit to that, like that,
I've been on work trips like that's you spend some
time with people that at home you typically don't get
a chance to spend time with. But what I was

(36:14):
looking forward to is if they win, the team bonding
being the pivot point to the season and we've been
deprived of that.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, no, I was gonna say that probably would have
ended up being a story about and let's see what
three years later, the go ball was actually able to
be thrown. How unbelievable is it that again it ends
up with a go ball at the end. It's so
Fi they come back, and I was like, oh, it

(36:40):
would have been I mean, it would have been.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
The perfect story.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
They got enough protection for Burrow to get the go
ball off this time, and it gets them the big
win that they needed to try to get back to.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
The super Bowl in so Fi. Instead.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
They may never throw another go ball or attempt one
in Sofi ever, again, certainly not late in games.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
But there it was.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
And after the game, you know, I asked Joe if
there were any specific there's He was very clearly hanging
on to some things.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
He was beating himself up about.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Ask them what they were, and that's where he started again.
He leaves the stadium thinking about that, and you're right though,
and we just talking to the picture and he was saying,
I mean, I will live with that all day. Those
guys are going to hit those like that is my
dream scenario that you end up with Jamar open on
a go ball and and Joe throwing it to him.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
But they didn't connect.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Story this season didn't didn't quite make that one last play.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Enjoy your You're Bye Week. I'm tarin. I'm gonna screw
up the clock here because I do want you to
talk about your event Thursday.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Oh yeah, I'm super excited about this. My favorite game
series that we've done a bun ton of these together.
But we have somebody come on and talk about their
favorite game they've ever been in and we sort of
rehash all of it, getting into the minutia, the legacy,
the lead up to it, everything else. Todd Frazier is
going to be our guest down at bet MGM Nation
Kitchen and Bar right down there at the Banks, and

(37:59):
we're we're gonna discuss the twenty fifteen Home Run Derby.
It's myself, Sea, Trent, and Jim Day on the panel
along with Todd, and we're gonna re air it from
five to seven there in the bar, and the panel
will start at seven and we'll talk about the Home
Run Derby everything with him that and he'll do a
little meet and greet after that. It's gonna be an
awesome night. I always love those things. I know we've

(38:20):
had a lot of fun doing those in the past
where you can really dive back into thing. We're almost
you know, nine years almost ten years ago, one of
the best events in the history of that state. And
they'll be right across the street. Really excited about doing that.
A little bit of a break from the Bengals stuff
that people probably need at this point. So that'll be
the panel. Start at seven o'clock on Thursday night at
bet MGM Nation Kitchen. Right, you'll post all that it's

(38:40):
a podcast, yes, eventually, Yeah, we'll get that up the
next day.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
All right, enjoy your time off. We'll do see in
two weeks. Absolutely. I'm Tanner Jiner. Read his work the
Athletic dot Com. Catch the podcast The Growler Podcast. Where
you get your podcast. Four o'clock Buffalo Wild Wings, Westchester,
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
This report is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
All right, what's up? Late? Start to the hour because
I don't know how to read the clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. Out low leg or gladge with us
ever having an unbelievable I said, unbelievable. Tuesday afternoon, we
are at Buffalo Wild Wings. We're here in Westchester on
Cholsey Drive. We're having a great time. We've got I

(39:24):
just had some boneless wings. We've got buy one, get
one half off traditional wings. We've a little bit easier
to eat the boneless when you're doing a show and
you got your laptop and stuff like that. But take
advantage of that. We've got five dollars bud Light talls
if you're just getting off work north of town coming
out to Buffalo Wild Wings. We've got some giveaways. We've
got Nike Golf Bengals hoodies thanks to bud Light. We've

(39:46):
got a very cool Bengals cooler thanks to bud Light.
We've got us. We're here till five thirty. UK basketball
takes over for us a little bit early today as
the Wildcats get set to take on Lipscomb tonight, which
should be a pretty eventful evening for low college basketball.
You can watch all the games here at Buffalo Wild Wings.
And if you can't be here while we're here, then
obviously a great place to watch the Bengals every week

(40:09):
except for this week. Great place for college football as
we get closer to the end of the season there,
so keep up Buffalo Wild Wings in mind when you
make your players to go out with your buddies and
watch games. There you go, you're gonna hear from Zach
Taylor coming up in just about twenty five minutes, and
you'll hear the head coach of the Bengals talk about

(40:29):
the team at the buy and some reflections from the
loss against the Las Vegas or Las Vegas Los Angeles Chargers.
I think the conversation. I encourage you to listen to
Paul Danner Junior's podcast, which you should be doing anyway,
but a good conversation with him and Jay Morrison, and
I was a part of it for a while about
lou Ana Rumo. And you know, it's not about blame

(40:51):
or scapegoat. I think that's far too often do we
position a conversation about a coach or a manager in
terms of blame. Right with somebody that the teams stunk
or the season didn't go as expected, and so somebody's
somebody's got to fall in the act, somebody has to
take the heat, somebody's head has to be on a stick. Blame, blame.
I'm not interested in blame. I'm interested in fit. I'm

(41:15):
interested in having the best in the world at what
they do in every conceivable position. It's to me, it's
it's it's more the conversations about Zach Taylor begin right, Like,
Zach has a lot of really good qualities to be
an NFL head coach. I think we've seen the Bengals
benefit from those qualities. But I think you're being completely

(41:35):
fair if you wonder from a coaching perspective, do the
Bengals routinely play at a disadvantage because the best teams
in the NFL have better coaches. Maybe you think the
answer to that question is no. Maybe you think it's yes.
I think it's a fair one to ask. But because
of the standards, we should start or we have started
holding the Bengals too. I think with lou Ana roumo

(41:59):
in it and the job he was asked to do
in twenty twenty one, in twenty twenty two, he was excellent. Right,
Let's take what they have, some of the pieces the
staff inherited, like Sam Hubbard and like Jesse Bates, And

(42:19):
because we have a lot of financial flexibility, let's embrace
free agency. Let's get to work adding players from the outside,
and in some cases let's overspend, and then we'll fill
in the holes here and there with you know, some
guys in the draft, players like Jermaine Pratt, players like
Logan Wilson, and they made some strategic decisions with their

(42:43):
own free agents, right They moved on from William Jackson
and brought in Shoudobi a Woozie and that worked. And
they moved on from Carl Lawson and brought in Trey
Hendrickson and that worked. But they they brought in a
lot of established players that they had the financial flexibility
to pay because they had a quarterback under a rookie.
Con We talked about I'll never forget the day the
Bengals signed DJ Reader. I'll never forget it because it

(43:05):
was one of the first shows we did when stuff
had shut down and because of COVID, and we was
like one of the last shows we did in studio
before we were told not to come in the office
again and there was nothing going on because sports had
been shut down, except there was free agency, and we
kind of joked, like, the Bengals never do anything in
free agency, so that's not gonna help. And then they did.
And I remember when they signed DJ Reader. I forget

(43:28):
who it was we had on. We had somebody on.
It was Vanessa Richardson, from Houston and liked DJ Reader
but said, like everybody here says that the Bengals are overpaying.
And then I listened to a couple of national analysts
who are like, yeah, DJ Reader is a good player
and probably fits, but oh boy, like the Bengals outbid
who like they paid him more than anybody would have
paid him. And the counter to that was, well, they

(43:50):
have to, Like, if you're the Bengals and you're coming
off the miserable twenty nineteen season and you want players
to come here, you're gonna have to pay more than
anybody else. You're gonna have to make money. That decided factor.
But they could do it because they can afford it
because they weren't really paying anybody else. They're paying Joe
Mixon and like that was it. So they threw money
at the defense, and it was Trey and it was

(44:11):
Von Bell, and it was Shouldobie Woozie and it was
DJ Reader and they did really well with those players,
and Louin and Rumo did really well with those players.
And he took what he inherited and what he got
from other teams and sprinkled in some draft choices and
grabbed a player from outside in bj Hill via trade

(44:33):
and put together some really good defenses. The Bengals got
to a Super Bowl on the strength of a lot
of those guys I just mentioned making plays in the
postseason defensively. But the way the Bengals are constructing their
defense has had to change. We talked about this on

(44:56):
Draft night, the night the Bengals took DA's Hill, and
in the immediate aftermath of the Bengals taking Dax Hill,
they're paying their quarterback. Even then we knew they had
at least one wide receiver. We were gonna want them
to pay. They were gonna have to draft on defense.
They were gonna have to prioritize defense in the draft,
and the defensive coordinator was gonna have to coach those

(45:18):
guys up and make them fit and get a lot
out of them. And that hasn't happened. And that way
of constructing the defense is not gonna change. It's if
the Bengals are better defensively next season and beyond, it's
it's gonna be because they've done really well with homegrown

(45:41):
defensive players. They're not gonna be able to go pay
the next DJ Reader, go pay the next Trey Hendrickson.
You could still use free agency, you could still supplement
your roster, you could still find bargains. But the way
that they've had to kind of go about constructing this
year's defense, which you know, from a personnel standpoint, there

(46:01):
are some guys who aren't here that we're here last year.
DJ Reader was here and Cheetah was here. The way
they're they've gone about building this year's defense is going
to be the way they go about building their defenses
moving forward. And so if you have a coordinator who
can achieve results with what the Bengals have given him,
what's not going to change is how they acquire players

(46:24):
on defense and so kind of what has to change
is the coordinator the coach. And that sounds harsh, man,
it really is jarring. If you think about two years ago,
we were wondering which team is going to be good enough,
smart enough and lucky enough to hire lu Ana Romo,
and you know which team in the AFC West is

(46:46):
going to go? Hey, man, you know what, we want
the guy who's got the the anatote to Patrick Mahomes.
We want the guy who's figured out how to slow
down this Kansas City offense when he came back for
twenty twenty three. I think we all thought, God, the
Bengals are lucky. They got a dude who probably should
be a head coach, and he's coaching the defense here.
And two years later, I think it's very fair to

(47:07):
wonder is lou no longer the guy? Because again, if
next year they were gonna be able to employ the
strategy they employed in twenty and twenty one and twenty two,
which is have all these established guys from outside. I mean, look,
they drafted Dax Hill before the twenty twenty two season
and knew they didn't have to play them. To a degree,

(47:28):
they drafted Miles Murphy before the twenty twenty three season
and kind of knew they really didn't have to play them.
They no longer can afford that luxury. They can't afford
the luxury of Miles Murphy taking his sweet time to
figure out how to play in this league. And they can't.
They don't have the luxury of whiffing on draft choices.
Like I hate to say that Cam Taylor Britt has
been a whiff, but it feels like he is going

(47:49):
in the opposite direction that you would like, and so
I yeah, I kind of feel like it's time for
a new defensive coordinate. I hate to say it because
Lo's done a lot of really good things here, but
if he is failing with the type of player the
Bengals are going to have to rely on, I think

(48:09):
you have no choice put to find somebody else who
might have a better chance of succeeding. Your thoughts on
that are welcome at five win, three, seven four nine,
fifteen thirty and eight sixty six seven oh two three
seven seven six. Joe Mixon was awesome last night for
the Texans. We'll spend some time on that again. Zach

(48:30):
Taylor talked today. Scott Sadafield talked today as well. You
can really feel the air coming out of the balloon
for this UC football season. You could really feel it
against West Virginia and it sort of feels like from
a fan engagement and excitement and energy perspective, the remaining
air came out of the balloon on Saturday night when
the Bearcats were beaten by seventeen points against Iowa State.

(48:53):
We'll spend some time on net get to the college
basketball and a Reds thought as well. Here till five thirty.
Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Cincinnatis espeople brought to you in part by modern office
methods on the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Ball in the NATI on ESPN fifteen thirty. That's right,
Mollegger here at Buffalo Wild Wings in beautiful Westchester. We
are here till five thirty. Follow on x at Mowegar's
show preview is posted today. I posted in a few
minutes after the show started because because I made a
mistake the first time I shot the video. Go and

(49:34):
watch it, even those shows more than halfway over. Thanks
to our friends at Emery Federal Credit Union, your credit
union with Hart since nineteen thirty nine. Go to Emery
FCU dot org. We also Danner was here in the
last hour. Talked a little bit about Joe Mixon. Look, man,
I'm not going to pretend that when the Bengals traded

(49:58):
Joe Mixon, I I stood up and waved my arms
and said, no, let's not do this. This is a
bad move. I understood it, and I was okay with
it for the simple reason that the player that I
watched over the last couple of seasons could be improved upon.

(50:24):
That doesn't mean he didn't have value. It doesn't mean that,
you know, didn't make sense for another team to give
him a chance. I'll be honest with you when I
when I saw that the Texans traded him, okay, fine,
But when they gave him the contract extension, that was
pretty surprising to me. And so far he's made a
payoff and he's been a big part of that team.
And I think that team, because of injuries and some

(50:45):
inconsistency throwing the football, has had to lean on him,
maybe slightly more than they would like. But dudes having
a terrific year. If you watched the Monday night football
game last night, he was awesome. He was awesome. He's
having a great year. And so it's very easy to
kind of get caught up in you know, the Bengals
are having a bad year and they can't run the football,
and they shouldn't have let Joe Mixon go, and it

(51:05):
was a bad decision. And that's just what happens when
you have the season the Bengals aren't having, and when
you have a player having the year that Joe is
having in Houston, I mentioned that if you look at
some of the advanced metrics, and you might not be
into such things. You know, he's not that different from
what he was here, but they are using him more.

(51:26):
He is averaging more yards per carry. He's taken on
a leadership role with that team. He was named a
captain before their game against the Lions. I was watching
his postgame interview with Scott Van Pelt last night, and
he talked about the leadership role that he took on
after the Texans blew that game that they led by
seventeen points. So it's kind of easy to watch and go.

(51:49):
They shouldn't have let him go. They screwed up letting
him go, isn't the problem? Not replacing him is like
players are going to leave Baits. Leaving hurts Jesse Bates
leaving Stings, not because he's gone on to have success
in Atlanta Stings, because they still haven't figured out a

(52:10):
way to replace him. That's you know, they still get
beat up. And I know this sounds obvious, but they
still get beat up for letting Andrew Whitworth walk. It's
because the plan to replace him didn't pan out. The
plan to replace him was put into place more than
two years before he played his last game in Cincinnati.

(52:32):
We all know what the plan was, right, They took
two offensive linemen in the first two picks of the
twenty fifteen draft with an eye on We're gonna let
Andrew Whitworth go because he's, you know, moving into his
mid thirties. Andrew went on and played great for the
Los Angeles Rams and won a Super Bowl and probably
solidified as Hall of Fame candidacy. It's not that he laughed,
it's that couldn't replace him. As an NFL team, you're

(52:54):
going to lose good players and you're gonna make tough
decisions about which ones walk away, and you're even gonna
make some decisions about players who walk away that their
play makes you look silly for letting the player go,
But if you replace them like Joe Mixon's production last year,

(53:15):
Joe Mixon's role in the offense didn't strike me last
season as difficult to replace. And that was the thing.
We talked about it a lot. They when they traded him, like, sure,
he's meant a lot to this team, and he's been
a big part of their turnaround. And you know, one
of the holdovers from the previous regime, and he was
on the Super Bowl team and did a lot of
really really good things here, But the player that he

(53:38):
was in twenty two and twenty three looked like someone
they weren't gonna have to go get Saquon Barkley to
replace Joe Mixon. Well. As as much as Chase Brown
has shown promise and I thought Chase played a really
good game on Sunday Night, they have failed to replace
somebody who was kind of league average last year in

(53:58):
many respects. That's the problem.

Speaker 5 (54:02):
Now.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Jesse Bates was better than the league average here. But
like you know, this is if they're going to have
sustained success, right if if they're gonna be a franchise
that is defined by the fact that they rarely have
losing seasons or never drafting in the top five or
never you know, constantly hitting the reset button on rebuilds.

(54:22):
What they're going to have to do on a consistent
basis is replace good players who leave, and you want
to keep as many of those good players as possible.
You're not going to keep them all, even the ones
in some cases you make fair offers to, So like
T Higgins. T Higgins is going to leave at the
end of the season. I certainly wish he wasn't. In
an ideal world, you could figure out a way to

(54:45):
make it work with all three and have it not
come at the expense of the rest of the roster.
Like T Higgins is a terrific player. He's always hurt,
but when he when he's healthy, he's a just damn
terrific player. You saw that on Sunday night. The scary
thing is it doesn't look like there's any internal options
to replace him, despite the fact that they took Jermaine

(55:07):
Burton with a draft pick last year, and so you know,
now on top of all the other things they have
to do this offseason, they're got to figure out a
way to replace T Higgins, even at a position where
it feels like there's a billion of them in the
draft every single year. That's not gonna be easy to do.
You gotta figure out how to replace T Higgins. Well,

(55:28):
at the same time, you got to figure out how
to you know, find good defensive players and replace a
lot of guys that you want to move on from
or that haven't done much of anything. So the mixing
thing he is making them look silly because of how
he's played. But the reason they look silly is they
haven't replaced him. Again. It's one thing if at that

(55:51):
position you're trying to replace and I'll just bring him up,
say Kuon Barkley or Derreck Henry and like those players
should be really hard to replace. The Joe Mixon of
the last couple of years should not have been difficult
to replace. The running back who's gonna get it fifteen
times a game and average four yards of carry, Like
they haven't found anybody to do that. And moving forward,
when players leave, they've got to be better at next

(56:14):
man in. We've got a plan in place, and that's
gonna work. Hasn't worked at safety, hasn't worked at running back,
to be honest, it really hasn't worked at corner right
Cam Taylor Britt was supposed to be, you know, the
replacement essentially for Shiaudobia Woozier. That's not worked out well.
Players are going to leave. What do you got that's next?
And in way too many instances, the answer to that

(56:36):
question hasn't been good. Uh twenty eight away from five
o'clock numbers five one, three, seven, four, nine fifty.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
You've been listening to football in Minetti on the official
home of the Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnatis Front
to You and bart By one hour Heating and air
conditioning runs Setters Kangaroo and by modern Ovis Methods on
the official home of the Bengals Cincinnaties, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (57:11):
Yeah, it's broken clavical, so it's it's a timing thing.
I would say he's one hundred percent done for the year,
but it's something you gotta let sit and heal, and
you know, we'll put him on I R at some
point and then just see how it heals after that.
But potential for return, But again I think it's too

(57:32):
early to tell that.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
To sign a dry four and take the time a
few weeks ago.

Speaker 6 (57:36):
And yeah, right now we're discussing all the options.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
How do you feel like him responded given.

Speaker 6 (57:44):
What happened to that game, that was better, you know,
than than when we took him out. Of course, there's
consistent things, some some big plays that we gave up
that we just can't have happened. But again, he continues
to go in there and compete, and I think he's
made of the right stuff. Again, we're just looking for
the consist and see part of it.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
We don't get kind of defense giving up some big
plays with big gash in spurts consistently out.

Speaker 6 (58:07):
Why that's been well two of those, I mean two
of those were what we were just talking about, you know,
and so again it's it's and then there was a
couple where Herbert got out, you know, so rush Lane's
got to be a little bit better. He got out
on some big runs that ate up a chunk in
those drives. So you can put your finger on why
it happened. I just think overall, it's consistent thing. Ten
guys doing their job. One guy out of place can

(58:28):
hurt and look big, you know, tougher in the big picture.
But I was happy with how they responded in the
second half. I thought guys really competed, even on the
road in the situation we were in is tough, and
our guys continue to fight. And I thought defensively, they
were guys flying around, making some big time plays, putting
a lot of pressure on them, holding them three points

(58:48):
up until that final run. So it was proud of
the way that those guys responded when when you're usually
putting that situation. You know, I think you could look
around and you're not always going to get that response
in ours did that.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
I was proud of them.

Speaker 7 (59:02):
Guys, stop being on the same page.

Speaker 6 (59:04):
No, it's just it's just it can be a step
out of place. It can be a step out of place.
It's not it's not guys not being on the same page.
It's just the techniques and the details being a little
bit better.

Speaker 7 (59:17):
With can is it Is it an initial of getting
to play call and being we're supposed to be. Is
it a contingency thing where if the office presents this,
you need to do this.

Speaker 6 (59:25):
And no, no, I again, we're working with everybody to
make sure we get everybody on the same page and
can play the best football. But VJ fought through it.
You know, you could see a couple of times he
was down there. He knew we needed him. You know,
we had forty tackles at that point in the game
with Sheldon and and so I was really impressed by BJ,

(59:47):
really thankful, really really Uh it took a lot for
him to continue to get through that, and so I
thought he did. Bye week comes at a really good
time for him. Thought he came out well as well.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Is Joe dealing with anything after the body weight.

Speaker 6 (01:00:00):
Penalty, Not that I'm aware of what happened with Selon
Rankings was ill and they had to run some tests
to get to the bottom of it. So feeling much
better right now. That that's about all I got.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
That can seem like.

Speaker 8 (01:00:17):
At times in the second half of the coverage and
the defense looked as good as pass all year.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
What is there during the bye week than you guys
can do as you prepare for your next team to
make that a more part.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Of the day.

Speaker 6 (01:00:30):
Yeah, I mean, I think, like I said, the issues
we had in the first half are easily solvable and
we just got to do a better job the details.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
When it comes to finishing games, how much of that,
in your opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Falls on the coaching staff to be a plinner and finished.

Speaker 6 (01:00:50):
Yeah, it all falls on us, you know what I mean. Like,
we're trying to put our our players in the best
position possible and I always have to provide them solutions
and sometimes solutions hard to come by. We've all watched
the same games, We've seen how they've ended. They've all
ended a little bit differently, and so we've got to
continue to find ways as coaches to make sure players

(01:01:10):
have the confidence they're put in the best spot so
that they can make those plays and help us under
those games. So we're all part of it. I do
think it absolutely turns to me and trying to find
ways to continue to put us in the best positions possible,
find a ways to put us in the best position possible.
I think we've got a really good process that that
obviously has has put us in a position in a

(01:01:31):
lot of these games to be in a spot to
win them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
We just haven't won them.

Speaker 6 (01:01:36):
And you know, there's not always this easy solution that's
just going to hit us right in the face on
how this thing is going to change. But I one
hundred percent I think I got to uncover every stone
and and as coaches, we got to we've got to
make sure our process is perfect to win some of
the games out in the past we've won, We've we've
won some close games before in some of these close games,
and it's disappointing for everybody right now, I still have

(01:01:59):
a lot of confidence and and how we go about
things and what we have in front of us going forward,
and sometimes it just takes winning one of these games
to Okay, there we go, that monkey's off our back
a little bit, and now let's go continue and finish
and and so sometimes it's just kind of a snowball effect. Unfortunately,
the snowball has gone the wrong way for us this year. Uh,
there's no excuse for that, you know. It's it's what

(01:02:21):
we got to find solutions, to find a way to
finish it the game. He's emotional, you know. And and
when you got a guy that works as hard as
he does leaves it all in the field, I do
think things I don't want to say misconstrue, but but
can can look differently than what they really are.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:02:39):
But again, he's a guy that is one of the
most genuine players I've ever been around, and honest, insightful,
puts it all out there for us. I don't have
problems with guys that work as hard as they do
speaking with emotion after the game, speaking with passion. He
and I are very much on the same page and

(01:03:00):
and appreciate the work he puts in, and sometimes postgame
it's emotional, and that's the way it is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
A conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
No, I talk to Jamar.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
Every week, you know, and and again confident that we're
always on the same pitche.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Something similar happened back at nineteen with however word legally
fashion have a game as well because a response, where
does that come from for you as a coach on
how to response to do that? I mean they have
something consistent.

Speaker 6 (01:03:23):
From day one, because there's not a non relationship there
with the player, you know, it's these are things that
we try to be proactive about to put these guys
in the best position possible to succeed. And I feel
very confident that we put Jamar in the best position
possible to succeed. He's first in every category there is.
We make a conscious effort to involve him and make

(01:03:44):
sure he's always a big part of that. I always
love the dialogue with him in terms of game plan,
how we're going to use you. I think he's he's
come along. He's not a captain with with it on
his chest, but but in so many ways he acts
like one. So again I don't I don't ever hold
against a player when they're after a game have an

(01:04:06):
emotional response and and uh so again we'll just we'll
continue to move forward as a team. But I love
working with him. Thankful that he's on our team, love
everything he brings to the table, love the energy he brings,
and just wants to win. You know, we all want
to win, and you put a lot of pressure on
yourself and when you don't it can lead to frustration.
But feel very confident that we're on the same page

(01:04:26):
and what'll be good to go for?

Speaker 9 (01:04:27):
Do you find Zach when obviously you're examining every detail
of every game and every loss, any common denominator that
sticks all against.

Speaker 6 (01:04:38):
I wish I wish there was, you know, I think
they've all been unique and different and how they've all finished.
I wish that there was a simple common denominator that
we could put our finger on and find that solution.
Like I said, it's one of those things when you
can just find that first one where you win it
at the end of the game and there's kind of
that relief from the team, then then you continue to

(01:04:59):
build off that. So I feel very confident with this
team going forward that there's still a lot in front
of us. There's still a lot of opportunity. We're not
writing anything off. Of course, we're frustrated and disappointed, but
it won't change anything in terms of how we get
after it with the energy and the right confidence moving forward.

Speaker 7 (01:05:16):
Obviously, the cameras on Joe throughout the game, when you
see his emotions, you see and dejected after the game.
Where would you say Joe Burrow's mindset is up in
regard to.

Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
His team just trying to find ways to win. He's
about all the right stuff. We're all disappointed with the
effort and the work that goes in from everybody, you know,
in all corners of the locker room, every every area
that touches this team. And he's obviously a huge part
of it, playing at an extremely high level, doing a
lot of things to help us try to win these games.
And when you come up short, it's it's frustrating, certainly,

(01:05:54):
and you know again it's it's will continue to stick
together and move forward and find a way to win.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Josh quite good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
What role now?

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:06:05):
Is he ready to be opposite Camp?

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:06:09):
Bigger, bigger role for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:06:12):
You know, especially with DJ going to that that changes
a lot of things, obviously when you lose one of
your starters. But I thought I thought Josh Newton played outstanding.
I thought he was competitive, got putting a lot of
man and man situations and made plays on the ball,
brought a lot of energy to the table. Really good
to see that confidence from a rookie step up in
a moment like that and play at the level he did.

(01:06:33):
So certainly you know the circumstance is gonna bring more opportunity,
but I also think that he's earned it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
I know there's always pressure where you all succeed, regardless
of whatever the season is. Do you feel it's ready
added pressure internal and given how well Joe's playing, how
well he Lawren's playing, to make sure that you don't
and s wander kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
This season, they're having to make sure maximize that as
much as possible.

Speaker 6 (01:06:54):
Yeah, I mean all we ever want to do is win,
and so there's always sure I'm putting on myself. I mean,
you feel it's hard to put into words. You feel
it every second of every day, the urgency to win
and to find ways to win. And I think pressure
is not the right word because we know what we
sign up for and that's just that comes with the business.

(01:07:15):
You don't feel that necessarily. You just feel the urgency.
We put in a lot of work. We've got a
good football team we need to win, and that it's
how can we do that? We haven't done it, so
is there anything we need to do differently to try
to find that? So it's more just that's that's this
business and that's our expectation for ourselves. That's our standard
for herself. It's frustrating when you don't get it done,

(01:07:39):
but it doesn't change. It doesn't change our mindset, our
purpose moving forward, that's still the same to get on
the right track.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
It's been the Zach Taylor press conference on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
There you have Zach Taylor's weekly press conference. So a
little bit different week this week. Obviously, the team played
late on Sunday night, so they decided, I'll have a
press conference yesterday. It's a different week for them with
no game on Sunday, and so they did their sort
of bi week press conference today. You just heard it
on ESPN fifteen thirty. Obviously, no game on Sunday, but
the next time the Bengals are on the field will

(01:08:14):
be a week from Sunday, when Cincinnati hosts the Pittsburgh
Steelers at the venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium
kick off at one o'clock. Pregame coverage we'll start at
nine oh five. We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester.
We are hanging out till five thirty. Our buddy Sean
Said is going to break down Bengals Chargers tape for
us when we come back to Buffalo Wild Wings in

(01:08:37):
Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Traffic from the UCE Health Traffic Center. Are you one
of the thirty eight million Americans impacted by diabetes? Get
personalized education and treatment options from the experts at UCE Health.
Learn more at UCHealth dot com. Stop and go traffic
is causing almost a twenty minute delay on southbound seventy
five between Hopple Street and Fort Washington Way, and you're

(01:09:06):
gonna hit some slowdown due to an accident. If you're
on Paddack Road at I seventy five and you're looking
at a five minute delay on southbound seventy five near
Shepherd Lane, I'm Nicole with traffic this report.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Our buddy Sean Saya joins us on Tuesdays the Stats
and Scheme podcast, as well as the Monday Morning Mashup
column for sumer sports dot Com and has been kind
enough to answer my questions every single Tuesday after he
grinds that Bengals tape, which I'm sure after this past
Sunday night was very entertaining. Let me start defensively. The
Chargers look, they commit to the run. They ask Herbert

(01:09:39):
to do, maybe a little bit more than the average quarterback,
but not as much as the Bengals asked Joe Burrow
to do. And yet that offense for much of Sunday night,
certainly in the first half, looked unstoppable.

Speaker 8 (01:09:49):
Why we the defense, it's a really simple defense, and
that they're going to drop to their areas in zone coverage,
they're going to be sort of stationery, and offense es
are just too good with how they attack that you're
asking them to solve a relatively simple problem.

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
And when you have a quarterback like.

Speaker 8 (01:10:07):
Justin Herbert, it almost doesn't matter who's playing receiver there
because he can throw the ball into any window.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
So I don't think they did enough to make Herbert's
life hard at all.

Speaker 8 (01:10:15):
And when they did sort of change things up a bit,
you start to see Herbert just scrambling and just causing problems. So,
you know, obviously such an unfortunate part of the season.
There's too many runs where guys are getting caught a
little bit inside where the defensive line is just being
totally moved. Of course you get injuries in the secondary
as well. To end this game, and just you know,
all in all, No, We've talked for a bunch of
weeks now, and it feels like sometimes it is the

(01:10:37):
same thing over and over.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
So Cam Taylor Brick gets benched, which is problematic for
a lot of different reasons. Part of it, you just
referenced that the lack of depth in the secondary. Also, look,
this was a guy they were counting on to be
their top corner this year and it just hasn't worked out.
When you watched him and you honed it on him
on Sunday, how glaringly bad was he.

Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
You know, it's just not good enough.

Speaker 8 (01:10:59):
It's it's tough obviously, cornerbacks like a year to year,
they have a lot of volatility where you know, maybe
you look at some snaps in the past and see
some good things there, but you just can't lose your
one on ones kind of over and over, and it
feels like on this defense as a whole, when guys
feel like they're playing the wrong assignment or you just
have two players in the same position, and that's like
a clear sign of hey, I'm not one hundred percent

(01:11:21):
or who is wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:11:21):
I can guess who is wrong. I know someone is wrong.

Speaker 8 (01:11:24):
It just it feels like the communication is such a problem.
And then when you include individual performances that are just
you know, not the best, it's such such a rough
situation as you start to think forward to well, how
do you rebuild this defense and what sort of answers
do you have for the longer term?

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Yeah, I mean, look, I think if you were to
ask most fans here about the Bengals defense Bengals defense,
they would say, well, you know, Trey Hendrickson's great elsewhere, eh,
Is there is there anywhere else on that unit where
you could say there's a player worth building around.

Speaker 8 (01:11:56):
I mean, I guess I personally don't think so, based
on what I've seen on the film. I certainly don't
think that's the other defensive end position. I think they've
had a bunch of struggles with that. I think that
when you look at how teams rebuild and you think
about the Banals being so good on offense. Maybe it's
you have to hit some you know, home runs in
the draft unfortunately, or maybe you can get some free

(01:12:16):
agents to sort of come in and even if they're
not like all star, you know, Henderson level players.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
No, you just need competence on the defensive end.

Speaker 8 (01:12:25):
If this defense was like the nineteenth best defense instead
of like the twenty ninth, then we're talking about a
playoff team because of how good the offense is. So
it feels like you hope that you're able to just
you know make it, you know, the sum of the
parks kind of going forward.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Yeah, I think that's the frustrating thing, right. We talked
about that here a lot during the offseason. They needed
to be better defensively, but they didn't need to be
the Steelers, right, They didn't need to be the Chargers.
They didn't need to be, you know, have a top
five or ten defense. They needed to be somewhere middle
of the pack. And the inability to even come close
to that is is very frustrat We've seen Joe Burrow

(01:13:02):
do Joe Burrow things in games the Bengals have lost.
He's averaged more than three hundred yards in the seven losses,
eighteen touchdowns, two picks, but he is getting hit a
lot schematically, is there anything the Bengals can do to
keep him from getting hit as often as he is
without compromising the production?

Speaker 8 (01:13:19):
I am glad you mentioned that, because, I mean, in
that game against the Chargers, there were some big hits,
and like that's something you can see film, you see
it on TV right away. Obviously he gets shaken up
a little bit there. It's tough because the Chargers did
a good job finding ways to double team Higgins and
Chase and look, the Bangles had two touchdowns on double teams,
but their offense kind of necessity tates Burrow hanging onto
the ball a little bit. You're kind of sifting through

(01:13:41):
things and figure things out. Of Course, you'd hope for
just better offensive line play, particularly from those interior spots.
I guess I'm just worried overall. The margin Frerer is
just it's so thin, like it is a fantastic offense
because Joe Burrow is playing lights out, and then you know,
you miss just two deep throws, two.

Speaker 5 (01:13:57):
Deep connections, and that's sort of enough.

Speaker 8 (01:13:59):
And of course I don't want to forget like in
this game of the whole entire week eleven, they have
the three most unlucky plays between the two miss field
goals and then that drop interception late in the game.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
So it's it's rough, mo, because there's so much good.

Speaker 8 (01:14:13):
That you see on the film, and I can only
imagine fans that have been through this for a year
every year. I mean, I'm eleven weeks deep here and
I'm already thinking.

Speaker 5 (01:14:20):
Like, oh man, the bye he gets up ahead.

Speaker 8 (01:14:22):
You know, we get a week off from a film,
we get a little bit of a break, and I
don't know, maybe things fall a little bit further in
their direction because I mean, look, I said they were
going to be a playoff team, and I certainly felt
that at the time, but the way that literally the
ball bounces or hasn't bounce has been so outside of
the Bengals favor and you know, they're not doing themselves
any favorites of either.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Yeah, Bengals need a break, and I think a lot
of us need a break from them. Sean Side is
with us on x at Sayad Scheme Stats and Scheme podcast,
as well as the Monday Morning Mashup column for Sumer
Sports let me mention something that you just referenced here,
and that's that's luck. Now, in a very sort of
non analytical way, we could talk about teams be being

(01:15:00):
unlucky and lucky, you know, teams benefiting from a call
or a team being hurt because of a non call.
But there's a way to sort of quantify luck, and
if you can, because you're a smart guy, I want
you to walk me through how you guys do that.

Speaker 8 (01:15:16):
So there's a thing just called win probability, which look,
I think when you watch a game you can feel
the swings of it. Rather it's like a touchdown is
going to increase your win probablity of course, right, you
know a fumble interception is going to hurt it. And
then you have the plays where it's not that a
field goal is a toss up situation because it's not.
There are like percentages that field goal kickers have right
when you base it on your kicker who has been

(01:15:38):
historically good, the percentages are usually high. And then you
have plays where it's a missfield goal or specific examples
are fumbles, right where causing a fumble is one hundred
percent of skill. It's more I think in the analytical
world that it's hard to predict from year one to
year two.

Speaker 5 (01:15:54):
Like is that going to stay constant?

Speaker 8 (01:15:56):
And so when that kind of changes on a pretty
rapid basis, I think the usually look at it is, hey,
you know, luck might not be the best word, but
it's just less of like a predictable thing. So when
you have dropped passes, when you have fumbles, when you
have bumbles with the balls on the ground and look
either team can pick it up, or things like dropped
interceptions or those sorts of situations where that is the

(01:16:18):
difference in a lot of these games, like the difference
in this game. I mean, obviously the Chargers go down
and score at the end, but if you make those
field goals where it's not like your field goal kicker
is this bad kicker? And you know, across the league
certainly kickers have had issues when you just look at
things like win probability and the swings of things like
turnovers where you're gonna have a game when you have
a lot of turnovers, you're gonna.

Speaker 5 (01:16:37):
Have a game and you have no turnovers.

Speaker 8 (01:16:38):
It's not that it's fully luck, but when you look
at just how probable like things and events are adding
to a team's.

Speaker 5 (01:16:44):
Ability to win. You know, I do.

Speaker 8 (01:16:46):
I like love how you know, nitty gritty and the numbers.
It is maybe not, but when you take it at
the season level of how the Bengals are kind of
lucked out in some ways and had bad luck in
some other ways, it's an unfortunate kind of mess.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Yeah. No, I think that's that's well put. I want
to fling get back to the offense here. So you know,
we know Burrow is great, and we know Jamar Chase
and t Higgins are awesome, and so I think a
lot of folks look at what the Bengals do offensively
as pretty much solely a byproduct of having those three
elite players and almost independent of the scheme, the system,
the play calling, et cetera. I say that to ask

(01:17:20):
you this because he gets he gets a lot of
criticism for his play calling, and I think sometimes it's overblown,
and then there are times where I think it's it's
well deserved. Is Zach Taylor a good play caller?

Speaker 8 (01:17:33):
You know, it feels like it's Zach Tayler and Joe
Burrow together because Joe Burrow is checking things at the
line and Burrow is getting his offense into the best
situations as always.

Speaker 5 (01:17:42):
I guess when I think of like the top player callers,
the NFL back killer is certainly not, you know, at
the top of the list.

Speaker 8 (01:17:47):
I do think that you once you build the ecosystem
around the quarterback and we see like little things kind
of tried here and there where Jamar Chase in the backfield,
I guess I want to give some credit because you're
allowing quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
To do so much.

Speaker 8 (01:18:01):
You're putting him in this situation to make some of
those big plays, because I would be surprised if you
bring someone else in there, how much are they really
going to change it? Because it's it's Burrow's offense, Like
it has to be burrows offense. It should be Burrow's offense,
and it should continue to be. I guess I kind
of hesitate when it's.

Speaker 5 (01:18:16):
A really really good quarterback. Just who to give credit to.
I always lean the player.

Speaker 8 (01:18:20):
I would you know, if I think about like Chap
May and Matt Stafford together, like some of the plays
that they had kind of cooked up together, those passing concepts,
I felt like I like those a lot more. Now,
of course, you have different weapons uh, with those guys,
but overall you're you're still looking at a Joe Burrow offense.

Speaker 5 (01:18:35):
I think whoever is kind of there.

Speaker 8 (01:18:37):
You just hope that the person that's calling plays is
able to, you know, add just enough easy buttons, whether
it's just being things a bit easier for Brow and
maybe you can convince Broke because you know he certainly
likes to be in the shotgun, Like, can you get
him to commit a little bit just you know, some
under centered looks, or just teaching your run game in
a little bit of a different way where you're taking
some stress off of just an excellent quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Well said, as always, Next week, no Bengals game, but
I still want to have you because I'm actually gonna
ask about other teams and we can take a little
bit of a mini break from the Bengals, which I
think all of us need.

Speaker 5 (01:19:11):
Well, I agree with you, I think all of us
could use that. I'm looking forward to