November 28, 2024 • 10 mins
Dr. Brandon Kohrs from OrthoCincy joined us to talk about DJ Turner's fractured clavicle, collarbone injuries in general, and two other Bengals-related injury issues.
Learn more about OrthoCincy by going here.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Learn more about OrthoCincy by going here.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right. We typically do this on Wednesdays. We moved
it back an hour this week for scheduling purposes because
we came on late due to the NK You broadcast.
But we talk injuries once a week with one of
the experts from Orthosincy Orthopedics in sports Medicine. The great
thing about Orthosincy is they've got specialists on locations and
services all over the Tri State and this includes walk
(00:20):
in orthopedic urgent care at five different locations with extended
evening and weekend hours in Edgewood and Anderson. Learn more
at orthosinc dot com. That's orthos ci NCY dot com.
Doctor Brandon Chorus from Orthossincy is with us. So we
have to start by talking about DJ Turner, who unfortunately
(00:42):
is is out for what feels like the season with
a claviical fracture. Now I hear claviical and I hear collarbone.
Sometimes it makes me feel like claviical is just another
word for collarbone.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Is that the case clamical is another name for collarbone.
They are the same thing. So the clamical col bone,
it's a bone that connects the sternum to the inside
of the chest out to the stopular bones. Not really
a true connection. There's ligaments there which you can have
issues with as well, usually the lateral ones. But yeah,
so clabical colarbone, same thing.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Do do injuries like this often heal without surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
A lot of them can, and that depends on, you know,
especially in DJ's case, depends on a few things. Depends
on that. It's placement of the fracture, if you have
any shortening. So when you break a bone, you know
it can you can break it and you can call
you know, what we call a hairline fracture, where you
see a line but it's not displaced. It means it's
not off. It means that you look at it and
(01:42):
you can't really it's hard from far away, it might
even be hardest to hard to notice the fracture. And
so if we have a non displaced fracture or a
fracture where the ends are still pretty close, especially collar
bones tend to do pretty well with nonoperative management. You
can treat those without surgery. Now, and an NFL football
player is going to would be involved in a lot
of collision type activities, you might tend to lean towards
(02:05):
something more surgical if you have any displacement shortening, or
if you have any concern that that might not heal
in its current alignment of position.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Can can you compare the timeline for recovery based on
not having surgery and then if you were to have
to have surgery.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, so surgery non surgery, And this is true in
any injury, and surgery doesn't often improve the amount of
time it takes something to heal. Now, it can improve
the alignment and the return to activities, return to function.
So if you fix something with a plate and screws,
you might get somebody back, you know, a few weeks,
(02:41):
a few weeks sooner. But you know, ideally you avoid
surgery if you can, but if you need it, you
do it. And you know, it looks like you might
be getting a second opinion from somebody. And so to me,
that means that you know, if it's displaced, if it's
significantly shortened, I mean, this is something that's kind of
a no brainer. You're taking them to the operating room
getting them fixed up. Just the fact that you know
(03:01):
he hasn't it doesn't sound like he's had surgery, and
it sounds like we're getting some other thoughts on this.
Potentially this could be something you treat without surgery, but
you know they're talking about no guarantees out the rest
of the year. I mean, I think you're at least,
you know, six eight weeks minimum. I mean, if all
goes well, and even that might be pushing it. I mean,
you you give this thing a good two or three
(03:22):
months before it's really solid, and you're increasing vitamin D.
You're doing some different things to try to get this
to heel a little quicker. But these are things that
you know take a while to heal, but if you
give it time, you should make a full recovery.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So DJ Turner suffers a broken classical lands hard on
his shoulder, and you know, at face value, I feel
like I see guys land on their shoulders all the time,
and then I'm watching Gardner Minshaw the Raiders gets you know,
lands hard on his shoulder, and then he's out for
the season with a broken collarbone, and it just it
feels like I feel like I watch football every single
week and I see guys land on their shoulder all
the time. And yet relatively speaking, there aren't that many
(03:58):
injuries like the ones we're talking about out right now.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Why is that it is rare? I think you have
to hit it right, and it takes a certain amount
of you know, certain angle, certain velocity in order to
break that bone. And you know, everybody's different. I mean
there there are people you know where you see their
brothers and you know, their entire siblings that come into
your clinic and they say, oh, yeah, well, you know
we've been in here before with the Johnny and you
(04:22):
know Larry and everybody else. And you know, sometimes I
think certain maybe there's a certain genetic predisposition that you know,
your bones aren't maybe they're too brittle, maybe they're too hard,
they don't have as much flexibility, or you know, maybe
you're just more likely to break things. I think from
a you know, from my standpoint, from a prevention standpoint,
it's making sure and I think a lot of these
(04:43):
guys probably are. It's adequate nutrition, it's adequate protein supplementation,
it's vitamin D especially, you know, public service announcement that's
getting dark out now or really soon. And I think
I read something recently, if your north as a thirty
seventh latitude, you don't get enough HIM and D from
the sunlight anymore. And so you need to be supplement
(05:03):
in that. So for the general population, that decrease fracture risk,
Vitamin D supplementation huge eat and right. But I think
some of it is just the freak nature of these injuries.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
All right, that's that's a good answer. Let's I want
to roll through three different players right now. We'll do
this pretty quickly. Here. Start with Orlando Brown. We're all
hoping he plays on Sunday against the Steelers. He has
missed the last few games, the last one against the Chargers.
Very close to kickoff, they announced he was going to
miss another game with a knee sprain. Can you kind
of take me through the determining factors that ultimately made
(05:34):
him a no go right before kickoff?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Right? And some of this you know not to uh.
I guess the quote, you know, spinal tap when they
talk about how it goes to eleven. I think that
you know, when you get there, you get on the
field and you're going full go. You know, that's probably
the first time you've really tested that need to that
to that level. And you know in a number of
(05:58):
weeks and so you're having and you're recuperating, but you're
not pushing it to the point where you know you
might aggravate something. So you're kind of doing a little
sub threshold training where you know you're not significantly risking reinjury,
but you're also getting stronger. And a lot of these situations,
you're not really going full go until the second you
step onto that field because you want to maximize the
(06:19):
amount of time you can recover. And sometimes you get
out there and you say, eh, this still didn't work.
And I tried to go hard and I can't. And
the last thing you wanted to go out there and
you know, be a left tackle and not be able
to move and risk additional injuries.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Let me ask you about bj Hill. So he came
out of the game against the Chargers, was helped off
the field, came back. He has been dealing with injured ribs,
something that he originally was dealing with early November in
the game against the Raiders. Now, I just I think
of football, and I think of a guy who plays
the interior of the defensive line, and I don't know
how you play with injured ribs, with strained ribs. So
(06:56):
can you tell me what happens when ribs are strained?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I would look at this as more you know of
a stretch type injury where you know it's either a
direct impact, so you could strain things, you could you
could sprain, strain and you know, let's be real, a
lot of a lot of these the terminology that's used
is a little bag, so it's difficult to understand exactly
what's going on. But you know what I would say,
if that is your ribs help you breathe right, So
(07:24):
those are consistently expanding contracting, and if you have an
injury to that, you know, rarely surgical, but if you
strain or stretch some of those ligaments some of that
fashion there, it can be quite uncomfortable, and you know,
it can take a while to heal and fully recover
because you can't not use your ribs to breathe. So
(07:45):
it's not like you can put put his ribs in
a sling for four weeks and tell him to relax.
You know, it's kind of important. So you know, I
think this is the type of thing that maybe lingers
a little bit, and you do some stretching, you do
some breathing exercises, and you try to work on getting
his conditioning up and hopefully getting the back in there,
all right.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
One more I want to ask you about Brandon Graham
of the Eagles, who's had a really long career, fifteen
year vet. I'm watching after the game when they played
on Sunday, and he was he had played a great game,
but he was very emotional because he's apparently done for
the season with the torn triceps. What stood out to
me about this was he apparently had been dealing with
tendonitis in his triceps. And you know, each of us
(08:24):
at some point feels like we all deal with tendonitis,
whether it's just weekend warrior, something you do just byproduct
of maybe getting old, that sort of thing. And so
I haven't heard of tendonitis turning into a tear. Is
that your guess what happened here?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I think so. I think that whenever you have tendonitis
or even tendonosis, which is more of a chronic breakdown,
a chronic what we call tendonopathy of a tendon that
can result in some weakness where the tissue isn't as good.
I mean, I've seen people before too where you're almost
the mechanism doesn't exactly make sense, where these people aren't
(09:02):
doing enough to warrant really tearing their trice up, and
they do. When you go in and look, and when
you go in for surgery, you're like, man, this tissue
isn't great. You know, it's it's not like this nice,
healthy tissue that you would expect. It's you know, it's
a little off. It's it's a little different. And I
think a lot of times that you know, if you
have tissue that isn't is great and you're putting a
(09:23):
lot of force through that arm, yeah, I think that
can increase the risk of injury. I mean that could
be you know, chronic Pteller tendonitis or tendonosis or rotator
tough tendonosis ex chronic. I do think that these these injuries,
are these chronic issues where maybe you don't have as
good a blood flow to that area, definitely can predispose
you to have an increased risk of injury in that
(09:45):
So I think, you know, you keep it strong, you're
do an exercise, you're doing what you can to improve
the health of those tendons, can decrease the risk of
injury in our general population.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Very good, doctor Brandon. Course, thank you so much. There
you go, doctor Brandon. Chorus from Orthos. Since I say
this every single week because it's true and I believe it.
The great thing about Orthos Sincy is they have specialists
on locations across the tri State, including walkin orthopedic urgent
here that's walk in, so no appointment needed Weekdays nine
a to nine p and Saturdays nine eight to one
(10:17):
p at both Edgewood and Anderson. I took my daughter
when she broke her foot to Anderson, and my cousin
took his little boy when he had a recess injury
to Edgewood. It's easy because you don't need an appointment
and it's definitely cheaper then going to an er. Whenever
you have an urgent orthopedic injury, you go to Orthosinc
dot com. That's orthos ci Ncy dot com.
All right. We typically do this on Wednesdays. We moved
it back an hour this week for scheduling purposes because
we came on late due to the NK You broadcast.
But we talk injuries once a week with one of
the experts from Orthosincy Orthopedics in sports Medicine. The great
thing about Orthosincy is they've got specialists on locations and
services all over the Tri State and this includes walk
(00:20):
in orthopedic urgent care at five different locations with extended
evening and weekend hours in Edgewood and Anderson. Learn more
at orthosinc dot com. That's orthos ci NCY dot com.
Doctor Brandon Chorus from Orthossincy is with us. So we
have to start by talking about DJ Turner, who unfortunately
(00:42):
is is out for what feels like the season with
a claviical fracture. Now I hear claviical and I hear collarbone.
Sometimes it makes me feel like claviical is just another
word for collarbone.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Is that the case clamical is another name for collarbone.
They are the same thing. So the clamical col bone,
it's a bone that connects the sternum to the inside
of the chest out to the stopular bones. Not really
a true connection. There's ligaments there which you can have
issues with as well, usually the lateral ones. But yeah,
so clabical colarbone, same thing.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Do do injuries like this often heal without surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
A lot of them can, and that depends on, you know,
especially in DJ's case, depends on a few things. Depends
on that. It's placement of the fracture, if you have
any shortening. So when you break a bone, you know
it can you can break it and you can call
you know, what we call a hairline fracture, where you
see a line but it's not displaced. It means it's
not off. It means that you look at it and
(01:42):
you can't really it's hard from far away, it might
even be hardest to hard to notice the fracture. And
so if we have a non displaced fracture or a
fracture where the ends are still pretty close, especially collar
bones tend to do pretty well with nonoperative management. You
can treat those without surgery. Now, and an NFL football
player is going to would be involved in a lot
of collision type activities, you might tend to lean towards
(02:05):
something more surgical if you have any displacement shortening, or
if you have any concern that that might not heal
in its current alignment of position.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Can can you compare the timeline for recovery based on
not having surgery and then if you were to have
to have surgery.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, so surgery non surgery, And this is true in
any injury, and surgery doesn't often improve the amount of
time it takes something to heal. Now, it can improve
the alignment and the return to activities, return to function.
So if you fix something with a plate and screws,
you might get somebody back, you know, a few weeks,
(02:41):
a few weeks sooner. But you know, ideally you avoid
surgery if you can, but if you need it, you
do it. And you know, it looks like you might
be getting a second opinion from somebody. And so to me,
that means that you know, if it's displaced, if it's
significantly shortened, I mean, this is something that's kind of
a no brainer. You're taking them to the operating room
getting them fixed up. Just the fact that you know
(03:01):
he hasn't it doesn't sound like he's had surgery, and
it sounds like we're getting some other thoughts on this.
Potentially this could be something you treat without surgery, but
you know they're talking about no guarantees out the rest
of the year. I mean, I think you're at least,
you know, six eight weeks minimum. I mean, if all
goes well, and even that might be pushing it. I mean,
you you give this thing a good two or three
(03:22):
months before it's really solid, and you're increasing vitamin D.
You're doing some different things to try to get this
to heel a little quicker. But these are things that
you know take a while to heal, but if you
give it time, you should make a full recovery.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So DJ Turner suffers a broken classical lands hard on
his shoulder, and you know, at face value, I feel
like I see guys land on their shoulders all the time,
and then I'm watching Gardner Minshaw the Raiders gets you know,
lands hard on his shoulder, and then he's out for
the season with a broken collarbone, and it just it
feels like I feel like I watch football every single
week and I see guys land on their shoulder all
the time. And yet relatively speaking, there aren't that many
(03:58):
injuries like the ones we're talking about out right now.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Why is that it is rare? I think you have
to hit it right, and it takes a certain amount
of you know, certain angle, certain velocity in order to
break that bone. And you know, everybody's different. I mean
there there are people you know where you see their
brothers and you know, their entire siblings that come into
your clinic and they say, oh, yeah, well, you know
we've been in here before with the Johnny and you
(04:22):
know Larry and everybody else. And you know, sometimes I
think certain maybe there's a certain genetic predisposition that you know,
your bones aren't maybe they're too brittle, maybe they're too hard,
they don't have as much flexibility, or you know, maybe
you're just more likely to break things. I think from
a you know, from my standpoint, from a prevention standpoint,
it's making sure and I think a lot of these
(04:43):
guys probably are. It's adequate nutrition, it's adequate protein supplementation,
it's vitamin D especially, you know, public service announcement that's
getting dark out now or really soon. And I think
I read something recently, if your north as a thirty
seventh latitude, you don't get enough HIM and D from
the sunlight anymore. And so you need to be supplement
(05:03):
in that. So for the general population, that decrease fracture risk,
Vitamin D supplementation huge eat and right. But I think
some of it is just the freak nature of these injuries.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
All right, that's that's a good answer. Let's I want
to roll through three different players right now. We'll do
this pretty quickly. Here. Start with Orlando Brown. We're all
hoping he plays on Sunday against the Steelers. He has
missed the last few games, the last one against the Chargers.
Very close to kickoff, they announced he was going to
miss another game with a knee sprain. Can you kind
of take me through the determining factors that ultimately made
(05:34):
him a no go right before kickoff?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Right? And some of this you know not to uh.
I guess the quote, you know, spinal tap when they
talk about how it goes to eleven. I think that
you know, when you get there, you get on the
field and you're going full go. You know, that's probably
the first time you've really tested that need to that
to that level. And you know in a number of
(05:58):
weeks and so you're having and you're recuperating, but you're
not pushing it to the point where you know you
might aggravate something. So you're kind of doing a little
sub threshold training where you know you're not significantly risking reinjury,
but you're also getting stronger. And a lot of these situations,
you're not really going full go until the second you
step onto that field because you want to maximize the
(06:19):
amount of time you can recover. And sometimes you get
out there and you say, eh, this still didn't work.
And I tried to go hard and I can't. And
the last thing you wanted to go out there and
you know, be a left tackle and not be able
to move and risk additional injuries.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Let me ask you about bj Hill. So he came
out of the game against the Chargers, was helped off
the field, came back. He has been dealing with injured ribs,
something that he originally was dealing with early November in
the game against the Raiders. Now, I just I think
of football, and I think of a guy who plays
the interior of the defensive line, and I don't know
how you play with injured ribs, with strained ribs. So
(06:56):
can you tell me what happens when ribs are strained?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I would look at this as more you know of
a stretch type injury where you know it's either a
direct impact, so you could strain things, you could you
could sprain, strain and you know, let's be real, a
lot of a lot of these the terminology that's used
is a little bag, so it's difficult to understand exactly
what's going on. But you know what I would say,
if that is your ribs help you breathe right, So
(07:24):
those are consistently expanding contracting, and if you have an
injury to that, you know, rarely surgical, but if you
strain or stretch some of those ligaments some of that
fashion there, it can be quite uncomfortable, and you know,
it can take a while to heal and fully recover
because you can't not use your ribs to breathe. So
(07:45):
it's not like you can put put his ribs in
a sling for four weeks and tell him to relax.
You know, it's kind of important. So you know, I
think this is the type of thing that maybe lingers
a little bit, and you do some stretching, you do
some breathing exercises, and you try to work on getting
his conditioning up and hopefully getting the back in there,
all right.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
One more I want to ask you about Brandon Graham
of the Eagles, who's had a really long career, fifteen
year vet. I'm watching after the game when they played
on Sunday, and he was he had played a great game,
but he was very emotional because he's apparently done for
the season with the torn triceps. What stood out to
me about this was he apparently had been dealing with
tendonitis in his triceps. And you know, each of us
(08:24):
at some point feels like we all deal with tendonitis,
whether it's just weekend warrior, something you do just byproduct
of maybe getting old, that sort of thing. And so
I haven't heard of tendonitis turning into a tear. Is
that your guess what happened here?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I think so. I think that whenever you have tendonitis
or even tendonosis, which is more of a chronic breakdown,
a chronic what we call tendonopathy of a tendon that
can result in some weakness where the tissue isn't as good.
I mean, I've seen people before too where you're almost
the mechanism doesn't exactly make sense, where these people aren't
(09:02):
doing enough to warrant really tearing their trice up, and
they do. When you go in and look, and when
you go in for surgery, you're like, man, this tissue
isn't great. You know, it's it's not like this nice,
healthy tissue that you would expect. It's you know, it's
a little off. It's it's a little different. And I
think a lot of times that you know, if you
have tissue that isn't is great and you're putting a
(09:23):
lot of force through that arm, yeah, I think that
can increase the risk of injury. I mean that could
be you know, chronic Pteller tendonitis or tendonosis or rotator
tough tendonosis ex chronic. I do think that these these injuries,
are these chronic issues where maybe you don't have as
good a blood flow to that area, definitely can predispose
you to have an increased risk of injury in that
(09:45):
So I think, you know, you keep it strong, you're
do an exercise, you're doing what you can to improve
the health of those tendons, can decrease the risk of
injury in our general population.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Very good, doctor Brandon. Course, thank you so much. There
you go, doctor Brandon. Chorus from Orthos. Since I say
this every single week because it's true and I believe it.
The great thing about Orthos Sincy is they have specialists
on locations across the tri State, including walkin orthopedic urgent
here that's walk in, so no appointment needed Weekdays nine
a to nine p and Saturdays nine eight to one
(10:17):
p at both Edgewood and Anderson. I took my daughter
when she broke her foot to Anderson, and my cousin
took his little boy when he had a recess injury
to Edgewood. It's easy because you don't need an appointment
and it's definitely cheaper then going to an er. Whenever
you have an urgent orthopedic injury, you go to Orthosinc
dot com. That's orthos ci Ncy dot com.
Mo Egger News
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