12/2/24 - The Tony & Mo Football Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from
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(00:23):
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Speaker 2 (00:29):
The past eight years.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Chevrolet Together, Let's drive on the official home of the
Bengal Cincinnatis ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Zach Taylor is talking with the media right now at
the venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
And what we'll see is that.

Speaker 5 (00:45):
On Thursday, he's struggling at the end, you know, so
again we'll let some time pass. The bonus day this
week should help us with a couple of guys. He's
fighting through it. You know, he's a guy that he
wants to play, he's been trying to play. Try to
protect him from himself as best we can. You could
see that at the end of the game he was
he was really struggling with it. So I appreciate his effort,

(01:08):
and we'll just see where he's at as we goes
a tough.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Decision of their conversations from at that point, like, man,
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Know, it's a tough point in the game.

Speaker 5 (01:14):
It's a tough point in the game, you know, to
to start making all those changes, and so you just
counted him to keep fighting through it. We'll see, you know,
we'll see really sore, and we'll just see where he's
at this week.

Speaker 6 (01:29):
When you went back and watch the game, what part
of the defense performance bothers you most?

Speaker 5 (01:35):
You know, we've got to tackle better. There's no question.
We got to be on the same page with all
the details. I think it's as simple as that. Find
ways to create turnovers, get stops. Guys are accountable for it. Guy,
you guys feel, you know, like they get punched in
the gut. We all feel that way. I said, we
all three phases. There's things that we can do better
to help us win a game. It's not just on

(01:55):
one unit. And when the season's gone the way this
is is everybody's got accountability for that.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
And I feel that from this team. It's it's a
it's a team that's hurt.

Speaker 5 (02:03):
I mean it's quite frankly, we all expected one yesterday,
expected one a lot more of this season.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
It hasn't gone our way.

Speaker 5 (02:09):
We got to take accountability for it, pick ourselves up,
and go find a way to have a better performance
this weekend.

Speaker 7 (02:15):
How do you explain the team not being on the
same page with details week thirteen.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
I wish I could explain it. You know, it's something
we work through. I do feel good about the preparation,
but that hasn't shown up on game day as much
as it needs to, and we'll keep working through it.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
We got guys that care, you know that.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
That's that's obviously an important part of it is it
means something to everybody out there. It's not guys that
are putting in half effort and pointing fingers at each other.
It's guys that are hurt and care and take a
lot of pride in their performance, in the unit's performance
and the team's performance. And so again, we just got
to find a way to improve.

Speaker 8 (02:54):
They're concerned that it's been the first half recently and
a lot of these games that Ultimately, the defense hasn't
done yet.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
It's a concerned that we're Fortnite and our whole team
hasn't hasn't done enough to find more wins. I think
that's that's the biggest issue.

Speaker 9 (03:12):
When Joe after the game says that he's going to
closely watch everyone to see who's with us and who's
not with us going.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
Forward, I think this point it says a lot about
the leadership on the team, and and it's kind of
it's what happens, you know, you see who can handle
the adversity, who's got thick skin, who's willing to go
through this, you know, because we've had good times here
and you got to work through the bat and and
I'll helpe you appreciate it when things are going really good.
But I do appreciate Joe saying that, you know, that's

(03:43):
that's where the leader's got to step up and hold
everyone accountable, hold themselves accountable. Joe's a guy that does
it the right way, and so when he says something,
it means something because guys look at him and say, Okay,
this guy puts an extra work. He does all the things,
he plays on a high level. He's put himself in
a position to do that, and so when a guy
like that speaks it, it carries its weight. And those

(04:05):
are the kind of things you need from the leadership
on the team, and Joe's willing to step up and
say the things they need to be said.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
I mean there's a lot of guys that I meet
with privately, meet within groups, and so again, my my,
my belief in them hasn't wavered from a leadership perspective certainly.
And you know, I I I stay in front of
the team and I'm not looking at guys that have
checked out guys that it doesn't mean something too. And

(04:38):
you know, sometimes when you have losing seasons, you do
get that sense from people and and that's you know,
it's it's hard to sit here and say I'm encouraged
by something when when we've lost three games in a row.
But again, when I look at these guys, I know,
I know they take a lot of pride in what
we're doing and you're going to get their best effort
going forward.

Speaker 6 (04:56):
Good of making a change at safety with Geno Stone
and let engage on or Tyson they can do well.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
Just keep working through every position, you know, that's something
we we spend time every Monday after a game talking
through who needs more snaps for wear, and so that
doesn't change this week. Yeah, I mean it's the lineup
changes on defense. Obviously, we still give up thirty seven points,
so we're accountable for that. So I won't get into

(05:23):
player by player. Uh, obviously we've got to improve Cornell.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
With Cordell and Cody, how do you evaluate that?

Speaker 5 (05:32):
Was that was an opportunity that Cody has earned and
you know he's he's played well stepping in at left
tackle well enough to get an opportunity to be one
of the five linemen that walk on the field. And
so again it was it was probably more about Cody
than anything else. And it's tough matchups this week, you know.
And so again we get in a situation where we're
throwing it a lot more than we're not afraid to

(05:53):
throw the ball, certainly, but you get to a point
in a game where it really does become that they
get a chance to spend their ears back and it
becomes tough matchups for the Lignements. So they know that
they go out there and they fight their tails off
and and give us some opportunities to keep some more
points and appreciate that about.

Speaker 10 (06:07):
Them, I do what are your discussions with blue after
a name like.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
This just funding solutions and again here on December second,
whatever it is, there's no magic formula that's going to
fix everything and change everything. So we got to get
guys playing detailed, playing fast, be in a great position
to make the tackles, get guys on the field to
create stops.

Speaker 9 (06:33):
Yeah, the penalties and have the penalty ares were the
highest in your time here a product of frustration with
the way the game was going, or they kind of
attention to details you were talking about the.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Board, you know, they were all a little bit different.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
That's I wish I could just say this is all
one thing that there was a couple of things. Certainly
that they had a lot of penalties as well, So
it was, you know, I thought it was an evillly
officiated game that way, and so there's not a lot
of complaint for how.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
That that occurred.

Speaker 5 (07:00):
We take all your find being disciplined and so it's
it's way more penalties and more comfortable with. But again
that was kind of just the way the game was
played on both sides.

Speaker 9 (07:10):
What is your thought on a Kams hit early in
that game, and what kind of message it say?

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Bang bang play.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
You watch the tape, it's a tick early and so
that's that's you know, he had a good view of it.
He called it, you know, it's it's just one of
those plays that you can go either way.

Speaker 9 (07:30):
I guess what I'm really asking is can a message
hit like that deliver a positive message of regression?

Speaker 5 (07:37):
There's no question guys feed off of that Cam had
a great one and it cover zero. Look, you know
on a quick out concept where he had the receiver,
so there was certainly a tone on plays. It's just
got to be more consistent, you know, and it's got
to carry over for the link of the game, the
leak of a half. It can't just be some one
offs and and our guys are accountable for that.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
What's the biggest thing you're.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
In Engauge over the next.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
Five weeks, Well, keeping everybody in this thing, you know,
and making sure everybody's continuing to do the right things.
And I haven't gotten any notion that that's not the case.
I think that's Joe's message is when you're here and
you have forced to focus on just one game at
a time here and can't look too far down the road.
You get a chance to observe people and how they

(08:21):
handle adversity, and so again, when you're in the position
we're in, that's it says a lot about people, about
how they handle it. And it's a great opportunity for
us to be able to observe everybody and make sure
everyone's built for this and can handle the adversity. And
oftentimes you often watched me sit up here for six
years and fight through a lot of adversity, and I
see what's on the other side of it, and you

(08:42):
see the people you want to do it with. And
so right now this serves as an opportunity to evaluate
the people you want to continue to do it with.
And that's that's the opportunity that's in front of us.
And we also get to go and try to win
games too, and kind of get the stink off of
us of losing three in a row and not having
won a game from month. We feel that and it
builds over time, and one win can rectify a lot

(09:04):
of that. It doesn't cover up issues, but it does
get that feeling back. In the end, it starts to
create some momentum, and we got to do everything in
our can these next seven days to find a way
to put our best effort, our best performance this season
in all three phases on Monday night football in Dallas,
Texas and find a way to get a win and
continue to build off that. It's a great opportunity. I mean,

(09:26):
what more really can you ask for? And so I
think our guys will respond well to that.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
How different is it?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
I mean, obviously in nineteen twenty they will working force
maybe wants to come.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Y'all now experience it.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Kind maybe now in sim the situations you.

Speaker 10 (09:39):
Will met that. I mean, how how many unique is it?
Because you guys have been where we all wanted to
go and now kind of maybe progress a little bit.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
Yeah, you know what it looks like, and so you know,
you know how to get back to where we need
to be. And and it doesn't happen overnight. It's it's
trust me. If it happened overnight, we would we flipped
this thing. We go, We're gonna continue to work. We
know what championship football looks like. We know what it's
going to take. It's gonna take a lot of hard work,
and guys all being on the same page and doing it.
And I'm excited to get back to that.

Speaker 9 (10:08):
We're a lot about building the right culture over the
last three years and making sure everybody have the right attitude.

Speaker 10 (10:15):
What are you leaning on that now.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
In more typical quite a bit?

Speaker 10 (10:19):
Quite a bit, do you.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Guys feel like you need to start rebuilding that again
to get guys that are more guys that are about
the right stuff and figure out the more guys that are.

Speaker 5 (10:27):
I don't look around the locker room and think that
we got guys that aren't in this thing together, you know.
And so again, we just we got to play at
a higher level. I don't think we've got we've got
the wrong people. We just got to get get guys
to play at a higher level in all three phases.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Coach, we've got a coach at a higher level.

Speaker 10 (10:41):
You know.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
It's I'm gonna sit here and put this on the players.
You know, As a head coach, you sit there and
your foreign a you're a foreign a head coach, and
that starts with you and to get the most out
of everybody. That's my job. And I don't take that lightly.
There's a lot that comes with that. I love the responsibility.
But with yourther come moments like this where where you

(11:02):
get to put it on your shoulders and find ways
to motivate everyone to get the most out of everyone.
And there's a lot of work that goes into that.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
How much along those lines, how much responsibility do you
feel over the defense?

Speaker 10 (11:15):
You you let me do this thing on that side.
How much responsibility is there that coach?

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Do you feel over that defense?

Speaker 10 (11:21):
A lot?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
A lot?

Speaker 5 (11:22):
You can't shy away from that. And just because most
of my knowledge is on offense and that's how I
came up as the head coach, that changes and you
answered everything, and so again there's there's obviously there's challenges
when you're calling plays and you're on the office side
of the ball, but there's no excuse for it. You
have you have twenty four hours in a day and
you got to make the most of it. And I

(11:43):
do everything I can to to spend time with lou
and and have knowledge of what's happening and what the
issues are over there and doing everything I can to help.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Them as your process change in that regard over the
course of this season, and spending more time over there
or anything like.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
That, I certainly think when things are going really well
on the other side the ball, it's easy to say, well, okay,
I'm just going to continue to spend most of my
time on offense.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
And so I think that's just that's a natural thing.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
You know, anytime there's any phase that's facing a challenge,
you tend to lean towards that direction. That's no different
when we were really struggling on offense once upon a time,
and and you're trying to spend everything trying to find
a way to get a first down and get points
on the board, and and so again sometimes this this
uh I've I've had experience doing in all areas, and

(12:28):
you know, continue to do that.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yesterday.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
I feel like he's developed this year and the receivers
really behind team into more.

Speaker 10 (12:36):
How do you feel like they've handled that goole?

Speaker 5 (12:39):
I think I think dre Is is taking them, making
the most of his opportunities. It's circumstantial sometimes that it's
just not coming his way because we've got two of
the best receivers in the NFL, and so you're you're
spending a lot of time and effort making sure that
they get the ball, and you're trying to put them
in a position. Mike Gyesseki is a tremendous matchup for

(12:59):
us as well at the tight end position. So we've
got an abundance of talent over there, and so you
focus a lot of your energy on making sure they're one, two,
three in the progression. And so again, Drey's ready when
the ball comes his way, He's ready to make the
most Like at the end of the game, he gets
that opportunity, he makes the most of it. A ton
of confidence and dre Love has worked at the clove,

(13:21):
his passion and love how much it means to him.
He wants to do it exactly how we want it done.
He can play all three positions, which is critical, so
you're not worried about you know, if you get an
issue at another receiver spot, Drake can go in there
and fill that role and be a primary target, be
a secondary target, be a guy who catches the ball
and scrambled row against the Giants for big play and
when his numbers called. He has stepped up in some

(13:42):
big moments. I mean that throw down the middle of
the end, the Haffkins Carolina, the scramble against the Giants,
the touchdown the other day, the touchdown in Kansas City.
So again, it's those guys just being patient and works
hard and so you know you can count on and
when his numbers called, he steps up and makes that play.
I know you might not be.

Speaker 6 (13:59):
Ready to talk pat sure yet, but when you look
at the defensive last year, you guys were across the
board pretty sure that if you guys fixed the communication
on the back end, it would elevate the play across
the board on.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Defense, is it communication still is?

Speaker 6 (14:13):
What would you say is kind of the crops of
your defensive issues this year?

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Just the simplest thing to say is it just hasn't
been good enough, you know. And that's you can look
at tackling, you can look at technique on a play,
communication on a play. I think it's a little bit
of everything. And it's not that we're not capable of
playing better. It's not because guys don't care, and guys
are appracting hard and meeting and doing all the things,

(14:38):
and so again, it just hasn't been up to our
standard and we got to find a way to get
it up there.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
This has been the Zach tailored press conference on the
official home of the Bengals. Cincinnaties ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Head coach of the Bengals, Zach Taylor, live on ESPN
fifteen thirty, dead after his team loses to fall to
four and eight falling to the Pittsburgh Steelers at the
venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium. Tony Pike and
I are at Twin Peaks in Florence. It's the Tony
and Mo Football Show. We're going to get a break
in and then we'll get underway, and God knows, we

(15:15):
have a billion things to discuss between now and six
o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati's ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
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(15:49):
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Speaker 4 (15:59):
This report is sponsored by Staples Stores.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Staples has amazing deals on us for the Tony.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
And Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Here till
six o'clock.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
If you haven't been to.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
This Twin Peaks location, very easy to get to. Close
to eye seventy five. Get off at the Turfway Road exit.
You'll be here within ninety seconds. Get off at the
Route eighteen exit. You'll be here within let's say one
hundred and fifty seconds. We are here till six o'clock.
We're back here next Tuesday. And if you get here today,
as you probably are aware, Hard Knocks in season with

(16:32):
the AFC North premieres tomorrow night on HBO, also streaming
on Max. By the way, you could take advantage today
of Max's Black Friday deal and get it for just
two ninety nine a month. So if you want to
watch Hard Knocks and you don't subscribe to Max, there
you go to ninety nine a month.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
You can watch Hard Knocks Tomorrow night.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Obviously, They're going to go inside the seasons of all
four AFC North teams, and Hard Knocks is so well done.
I don't care if your team is having a good season,
a bad season, something in between. Who doesn't love the
behind the scenes look you get with Hard Knocks and
it's done during the season. So I've got some of
these Hard Knocks swag bags I got from the folks
at HBO, and come on out, you might win one.

(17:17):
They're pretty cool. Got a bag, got a T shirt,
awesome stuff. And don't forget there is a HBO hosted
premiere party at the Blind Pig downtown tomorrow. The show
starts at nine. If you're wondering, yes, you'll be able
to watch the UC Villanova game. So gonna be a
lot of fun downtown, Blind Pig on Third Street.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Hard Knocks tomorrow night.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
And if you want one of these swag bags, we've
got some of them for you here today. If you
swing by Twin Peaks in Florence, two plays that to
me tell the story of the twenty twenty four Bengals defense, Tony,
are you ready sure? The first one would be the
last play of any consequence of the football game. The

(17:57):
Steelers are trying to ice the game. They do the
Bengals a solid by getting a penalty. Cincinnati has climbed
back into it. They've at least got a prayer if
if they can stop Pittsburgh and get the football back right. So,
on a third and four play, Justin Fields comes on

(18:21):
the field for just the second snap of the afternoon.
Everybody watching on TV, in the stadium, anybody listening, anybody
on the Bengals sideline, anybody in the press box knew
exactly what was gonna happen. Yep, Justin Fields was gonna

(18:42):
take it himself. He wasn't gonna throw a pass. Why
would you do that? He's gonna take it himself. It's
third and four, It's a stoppable third down, and yet
Justin Fields, with ease, runs for seven yards, gets the
first down.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Ball game over.

Speaker 10 (19:00):
How could have walked the seven yards?

Speaker 8 (19:02):
How you know at that point passes off the table
because any threat of pass left the field when Russell
Wilson went off the field. Why can't you just commit
eight or nine guys to the run and commit to
to the quarterback instead. Josh Newton, Jermaine Pratt bite on
the fake it's Justin Fields. Like to your point, how

(19:26):
is an alarm not going off when Justin Fields comes
into the game. There had to be an alarm from
up top in the booth, there had to be alarms
on the sideline. The players had to know that was
Justin Fields. And in knowing that's Justin Fields, how do
you not know that in all likelihood he's coming in
to run the ball. And again, if you make the stop,

(19:47):
it's hard in the NFL to go that length of
the field and not have timeouts.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
But you at least give Joe Burrow in prayer. Yep, right,
you were.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Down seventeen points and now you're gonna give the ball
back to Joe Burrow and the odds are not in
your favor, right, but at least you have a chance.
And even if that doesn't work, you didn't get beat
on a play on defense that couldn't have been more obvious. Correct,
But the only way it's more obvious is if Mike
Tomlin holds up a sign on the other side line
says Justin Field's is gonna run the ball and here's

(20:16):
where he's gonna run it to, which essentially is what
they did when he came into the game right, and
when the running back lines up to Justin fields right,
then you know it's gonna be a playfake.

Speaker 10 (20:25):
With the back going left, then Justin would keep the
ball right.

Speaker 8 (20:29):
I don't understand, like I've watched enough Steelers games this
year that when he comes in that's what he does.
So it's not like and I know again we'll dive
into it. I know Arthur Smith did stuff yesterday that
the game of football has.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Never seen screen passes a quick game.

Speaker 10 (20:43):
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 8 (20:44):
It's essentially like a defense dropping a you can't pass
against that. You can't defend quick passes in screen game.
You also obviously can't understand or stop a mobile quarterback
that comes into the game.

Speaker 10 (20:57):
Specifically for that point in the game.

Speaker 8 (21:00):
Unbelievable, it is, It is inexcusable, and it is quite
frankly why I am shocked as we sit here just
after three point thirty that there is still no no
changes to this defensive staff.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
That is the play right there where I would have
said to Lou, I can't, man, sorry, do it anymore.
Thanks for everything, I can't do it anymore. And that's
that's that's ignoring the rest of the game.

Speaker 10 (21:23):
Yep, I want to.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Go back to one other play. So I was in
attendance yesterday with frozen toes. The Bengals were down twenty
seven to twenty four late in the third quarter.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Years ago. He probably doesn't remember this.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
I asked our friend and colleague, Jim Kelly, like, teach
me one or two things about how to watch the
game like an analyst does. And the first thing that
he said to me is watch the open grass. Watch
the open grass. Right Just find a place when when
the two sides are lined up, where the ball the
snap of the ball, look for the open grass. So

(21:57):
at second and eleven, that voice is ringing in my
ear when I see this enormous, large, wide, open swath
of grass on the right side of the Bengals defense.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yep, not very deep downfield. It's second and eleven.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Now, I know a fraction about football compared to someone
like yourself. I'm not one of these guys that sits
there and goes I know what the play is gonna be.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
But I knew what they were gonna do right there.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
They're gonna send somebody to that area of grass that
is I mean, there wasn't anybody anywhere close to where
Jack scaronic Ran turns around, catches a pass and gains
twenty five yards. Yeah, how you know, how does that happen?
If I see to me that that speaks to the
issue with the defense. Ye, if I know what's gonna happen,

(22:49):
that's a problem.

Speaker 10 (22:50):
Yeah. Well, if an idiot.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Like me knows what the other team is about to
do to your defense, your defense is historically abysmal.

Speaker 8 (22:58):
Yeah, you know, it's funny you're saying that, and they
just showed the play on the screen above you. On
that play, the Bengals are lining up multiple players in
the box, right, So when I'm watching that play live, like, okay,
this is some type of pre snap disguise because you
want the quarterback to think that that's open, right, that
play was Sam Hubbard dropping into the window. So I

(23:21):
watched earlier in the game a three hundred pound lineman
for the Bengals dropping coverage. And now on that play
a three point game on second long, where if you
stop them, you force a third and long and then
you have a chance. I know we didn't really touch
Russell Wilson, but third and long gives you a chance. Instead,

(23:42):
you show pressure and you drop Sam Hubbard who doesn't
drop quick enough, and it creates this huge window for
easy pitch and catch.

Speaker 10 (23:51):
That that's the thing to me.

Speaker 8 (23:53):
Like there were a couple throws yesterday Burrow made back
at the end zone to Yoshi Vash, the jump past
the Jamar chase where if you are a defense guy
makes for a fan of that defense guy makes a play.

Speaker 10 (24:05):
Tip your cap, yep.

Speaker 8 (24:06):
The throws that Russell Wilson made yesterday, no disrespect to
Russell Wilson, who has had a great career. A lot
of other NFL quarterbacks in the league are making those throws.
And I've never pre snapwise looked at something and said
that could be a problem, and then it doesn't get
addressed with any type of disguise. It's just that blatantly

(24:27):
bad of a problem, which I thought was gonna go
away because Gino Stone and Von Bell were back and
everyone was gonna be lined up correctly, and I thought, communication, Yeah,
I thought that would go away because you know, you
got a guy in Jermaine Pratt who you bought into
as one of those foundational pieces leading that defense out there,
and none of that is the case. They they were

(24:49):
abysmal tackling. They missed fourteen tackles yesterday. They did not
put up any type of fight when it comes up
to pass defense, and in not putting up a fight
on the back end, they couldn't sniff anywhere near Russell
willis the worst of the day.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
The word that comes to mind for me is resistance. Right,
you just talked about it. Sometimes your your dB will
cover his guy as well as you can and the
quarterback just puts it in the right spot, or the
guy just goes and gets it and you go. Or
sometimes you apply all sorts of pressure and you're the
blitz you dial up works, or the pressure package you

(25:24):
come up with works and the quarterback just gets out
of trouble, or he makes the right read, he gets
rid of the ball quickly, and you go. You know
what we had resistance? We lost on the play. They
gained yardage, they got the first down, they scored, they
won that rep. But there was resistance. The Bengals showed
zero resistance yesterday. There have been so many times this

(25:45):
year like I see good defenses sometimes get beat. I
saw the Pittsburgh Steelers, who have a good defense yesterday.
Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase T. Higginson company beat them
at times, but there's resistance with the Bengals. Everything looks
easy that the other team does all season long. Yeah,
go back to Game three forever ago Washington, we said

(26:09):
the same thing. Holy crap, that's a rookie quarterback in
this third start where it just looks easy. That's the
theme of the season. It came to a head yesterday.

Speaker 8 (26:19):
Yeah, and again for me, it's the time and place
division rival. So you know Pittsburgh at this point, you've
seen what Pittsburgh has done in recent weeks offensively. Hell,
they put up more points yesterday. They have since twenty eighteen.
Twenty eighteen was the last time they scored forty one
points in a football game. And they came into your
building with your backs against the wall, you needing to

(26:42):
win to keep your playoff hopes alive, and they dog
walked you did whatever they wanted. They did whatever they
wanted with zero resistance. And as we sit here today,
if I'm a player in the locker room, what are
we gonna do about it? Is this the threshold?

Speaker 3 (26:57):
It's okay, Tony, if I'm an offensive player, That's what
I'm asking if I'm a defensive player, I have no
business asking anything. If I'm jump a leader on this team,
if I'm Jamar, if I'm t if I'm any one
of those offensive players.

Speaker 10 (27:11):
Really, yeah, We're not gonna do anything.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Nothing.

Speaker 10 (27:13):
This is okay in a must win game. And that's
a problem.

Speaker 8 (27:16):
You and I have had this same conversation for weeks
on this team not showing up on what felt like
a must win, this team starting slow, this team not
answering the bell, this team getting punked, this team getting
out physical, this team getting out schemed. It is the
same conversation over and over and over and over that
we continue to have. There are numbers that back it up.

(27:40):
One score games under Zach Taylor seventeen.

Speaker 10 (27:42):
Thirty two and one.

Speaker 8 (27:43):
Yeah, the slow starts in September seven to fifteen, and
one AFC North games eleven and twenty three. And the
thing is that in those losses, you and I are
having these same conversations about a team that doesn't show
up or a team that does show up and looks
like it did in preparing for that week's game.

Speaker 10 (28:02):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (28:03):
And yesterday, in the biggest moments, they didn't. I watched
and I'll show this at some point this week. The
first play of the second half, if you get punk
for twenty seven points, the Bengals come out and run
a blitz and it is the weakest, most non aggressive
blitz I've ever seen, So clearly the in game adjustments

(28:26):
didn't work at the half. That's not changing offensively, and
I know we'll dive in a bunch of the offense.
Steam can't convert third and short, fourth and short consistently,
They go away from things, they don't make the end
game adjustments on both sides of the ball. I just
want to know what the communication is. What is the
communication when guys aren't hustling, What is the communication to say, you.

Speaker 10 (28:51):
Know what, we're gonna.

Speaker 8 (28:51):
We're gonna we're gonna bench Von Bell and we're gonna
bench Cordell Volson, but we're not gonna bench Genostone. And
then you know, a Stone on the first touchdown of
the game takes one of the worst angles I've ever seen.
So why are their players being held at different levels
of accountability? Would be a question that I want an
in game Why why is there not in game adjustments?

(29:14):
You pointed it out, I pointed it out There was
a play in the third or fourth quarter where Orlando
Brown Junior was asked to pull on a toss and
he looked like a seventy year old man.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
He looked like in space in the middle of the
night with a Charlie horse.

Speaker 8 (29:28):
Why why after that is there no one in the
booth saying, we're gonna get Joe killed, so get him out,
Because then what happened? Then Orlando Brown can't get out
of his stands and stop a rush and the ball
gets stripped on a three step drop where the ball's
coming out before the receivers out of his break. That
results in a touchdown for the Pittsburgh Steelers. No one,
No one is like, hey, Frank, Orlando Brown Junior can't

(29:50):
get out of his stance right now. Instead it results
in a touchdown for the defense.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
In malpractice, it is, Yes, I appreciate Orlando giving it
a go, sure, really do.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
He's trying. But there was that play you just referenced it.
Go and watch it.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
He's running to his left and if you didn't know
any better, if you didn't know he was already injured,
you'd think he blew something.

Speaker 8 (30:14):
There mode They did a package in game right about
all the times he had got away with starting early
right because he wasn't one hundred percent he's trying to
gain an advantage. And then to watch him try to
pull and touch nobody in space and then to give
up a blind side strip sack that results in a
touchdown when he should have never been out there in

(30:34):
the first place is absolute malpractice.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
One that is on the offensive line coach, that is
on the offensive coordinator.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
That ultimately it falls on the head coach.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
We have a physically compromised player who can't get it done,
who's being asked to block TJ.

Speaker 8 (30:49):
And guys on defense that aren't giving one hundred percent
effort every play.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
It is sixteen minutes away from four o'clock. We're here
at Twin Peaks in Florence. It's the Tony and Moo
Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati's
a CESPS fifteen thirty moegor was Tony paying Tony and
mo Football Show here till six o'clock.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
The first hour of this.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Show is kind of dominated by the Zach Taylor press conference,
and so we've had to kind of get back on
time and then coming up at four or five. For
the next two hours, we'll have nothing but large swaths
of time in which we could talk about yesterday's game
against the Steelers, Jermaine Pratt's postgame comments fixing the defense
not for this year but for next what Joe Burrow

(31:33):
must be thinking. We'll talk about everything that happened in
the NFL during a weird week thirteen, because we had
three Thursday games, a Friday game, all the games yesterday,
one more tonight.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
We have to talk about the end of the UC season.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
We have talked about Ryan Day, we have talked about
flag planting and the human response.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
There's a lot of ground to cover.

Speaker 10 (31:52):
Yeah, I want to cover all of that.

Speaker 8 (31:54):
Also, there's there is some disconnect at a level with
the Bengals, whether it's the personnel department, the coaching scheme department,
because clearly the players drafted and targeted and free agency
aren't fitting what the Bengals are trying to do on
the field.

Speaker 10 (32:09):
Huh who does that fall on?

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Therein lies the issue that I want to talk about.

Speaker 8 (32:15):
And then over the weekend, I'm I'm like plastered with
all the Lions have twenty seven or thirty guys in
their scouting department and this team has this many and
the Bengals don't even have ten. And I'm like, okay, well,
there has to be some correlation with the personnel, the
draft process, the free agency process, and what's happening. I

(32:39):
don't know where it gets disconnected on that line, but
there is a big disconnect because they don't match the
players that are put out there, don't match the scheme
they're trying to do. And then when they move on
from players, we're told the players don't fit the scheme
that they're trying to run. So it's like this never

(33:00):
ending loop right now. Of well, then it's this person's faulder,
it's that department's faulder. It says there's no unison within
the player personnel in the coaching department, and you can
clearly see teams where they do have that unison.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Right I thought the ping pong table was going to
fix all that.

Speaker 10 (33:19):
I did too, And now the.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Question becomes what is the next coaching gimmick that Zach
Taylor will employ?

Speaker 2 (33:26):
And I do want to spend some time on that
between now.

Speaker 8 (33:28):
My wife asked me that yesterday, she said, what was
what was the big deal with the ping pong table.
I said, well, it turns out it was nothing, but
we thought it was everything. Well, but they bonded.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Don't stop with the ping pong table. They come up
with something.

Speaker 10 (33:41):
Else, like do like a secret Santah group, secret.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
Sannah White Elephant, some sort of group outing. Maybe bring
some adult entertainment.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Into the locker room.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
I have firings, Well that might might be a thing too.
Ping pong table didn't work? And so what what coaching
gimmick Zach Taylor employee next?

Speaker 8 (34:01):
If you could label the hotness of three major seats
of coaching in Ohio, Ryan Day, Scott's Adderfield, and Zach Taylor,
how would you rate those.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Which fan base is more unhappy with their coach?

Speaker 10 (34:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (34:14):
And is there a way that you could just swap
and all fan bases would be happy? I mean no,
I mean Zach's been here already, so naturally he would
have to go to Ohio State, Scott's Hadderfield would have
to give it a shot with the Bengals, and we
would have to see if Ryan Day could salvage something
of a career with the Bearcats.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Not a good weekend for any of those three men.
Miserable not a good weekend at all for any of
those three men. We have all that and more to
talk about. It's four o'clock on moweg Or. He's Tony Pike.
It's the Tony and Mohoe Football Show. We are here
until six o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
This report he's sponsored.

Speaker 10 (34:51):
By Cincinnati Sports Station ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
And MO Football Show Live from the Twin Peaks, drought
to you in part by Encore Technolochies visit OnCore dot
Tech and Station East Coast subs Penn Station. It's all
in good taste Honda East, Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience. First
State Bank built on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio,
just off I seventy one, Exit fifty inside the Holiday

(35:21):
and at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri State
Chevy Dealers. Chevrolet the number one selling brand in Cincinnati
for the past eight years. Chevrolet Together, Let's drive on
the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
It's after four ESPN fifteen thirty Mowegar with Tony Pike
at Twin Peaks in Florence. It is The Tony and
Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty, the day after
the Bengals get beaten by the Pittsburgh Stealers. I'm gonna
give really quick here, Tony Zach Taylor a little bit
of a break, okay, because today you're hearing about his
record in one score games.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yes, yesterday was not really a one score game.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah's be honest. Okay, that's fare down by seventeen points
in the fourth court. No, why were they going to
win that game?

Speaker 10 (36:05):
It was an AFC North game.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
It was an AFC North game that counts.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I mean it was a one score game mathematically, only
in reality fair, the Bengals were whipped by Pittsburgh offensively
at least, and not really competitive with their defense, and
so I don't think it was a one score game. Anyway,
We're here till six o'clock. Come on out and join us.
I've got some of these Hard Knocks gift bags with

(36:29):
the premiere tomorrow night. You grab one of those if
you come on out. We're here till six. Plenty of ice,
cold beer, plenty of food and us And yeah, really,
what's the biggest part what else do you need us?
You know, you and I have done this show together
now for ten years. Wow, right, ten years. The company
sort of season long celebration is continuing, and I'm sure

(36:52):
many of our co workers who have already come out
to these shows this year, well maybe they their way
out for this one.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Here twin peaks understanding.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
We need some moral support given the fact that we
have all this losing to talk about. But in all
the time you and I have been doing the show together,
you have never said to me hours before the show,
I want to play this audio. So this is Jermaine Pratt,
who was among the culprits in the long line of
miss tackles. Pro Football Focus had them with fourteen. Our

(37:22):
friend Jay Morrison rewatched every snap of the game and
had sixteen Bengals miss tackles. Here is Jermaine Pratt. We
got this audio from our buddy James Rapine.

Speaker 10 (37:32):
Can't wait.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Jermaine Pratt after the game being asked about the performance
of the defense and the mistackles miss tackles?

Speaker 10 (37:41):
Man, did you feel like there were a lot of
miss tackles?

Speaker 7 (37:44):
That not that much? I don't think, I just nink
that is, it was just getting a batot quick, his
quick game and the screens. It's going to be a
matter of not being an right. I'm just saying idea.
It was just screen. It was quick games. They weren't
really they went't doing too much. Is getting a bat
that quick swallow a loss.

Speaker 5 (38:02):
When you give up more than five hundred offense?

Speaker 7 (38:06):
I said, like, it was just screens. And then if
we went zero, he just threw like a quick quick
it was ball was quick. It wasn't that much.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Why was it difficult to defend those screens?

Speaker 4 (38:16):
They had some success on it.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Why did they have so much success?

Speaker 10 (38:19):
The ball was out quick, that's all they was quick.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
That was that an adjustment that could have been made
mid game to change the way they were having so
much success.

Speaker 7 (38:25):
I mean you're throwing quick. Yeah, I think everybody got effort.

Speaker 10 (38:32):
We didn't. We didn't give, we didn't quit.

Speaker 7 (38:34):
I didn't see nobody quick. So it won no effor level.

Speaker 8 (38:39):
Your thoughts come tone death. For one, they had fourteen
miss tackles yesterday. Yeah, so they didn't they didn't tackle.
Do you want the pro football focused number of the
Jay Morrison number? Because Jay had him with sixteen, We'll
go with Jay Too sixteen. You know he he goes
on to talk about defense as a whole. Kelsey Conway

(39:02):
even tries to go back in like, well, how do
you explain the five hundred yards of offense?

Speaker 10 (39:06):
Do you make adjustments? And these comments.

Speaker 8 (39:09):
Were, well, we tried, we tried some zero and he
got it out quick. They ran screens and got it
out quick quick. All I'm hearing is excuses. All I'm
hearing is something that every team in the NFL does.
What is your answer for a team that gets it
out quick? And it wasn't just getting it out quick.
They made multiple plays down the field against you. You highlighted

(39:31):
one on second and ten in a twenty seven to
twenty four game. This this to me and lies the
problem I am listening week by week Joe Burrow, who
if this team was eight and four, would be the
front runner for the MVP of the NFL, and Jamar Chase,
who is now essentially saying the mindset is we have
to score every time. I need to be better. Joe
is openly saying I need to be better. Sure, there

(39:54):
is not one time in that clip where Jermaine Pratt
says I need to be better There's not one time
where he says the defense as a whole needs to
be better.

Speaker 10 (40:05):
He doesn't.

Speaker 8 (40:06):
There is zero accountability for a defense that gave up
the most points against the Steelers team since twenty eighteen.
And you watched the Cleveland game with Pittsburgh, you watched
the Baltimore game. Yeah, this isn't the greatest show on turf. No,
this isn't just all the complement of weapons that Russell Wilson.

(40:27):
How are you gonna guard Jefferson and Pickings and Friarmuth.
No one in the league is saying that what I
want is one of the players that you invested in
in a franchise. When he made a spectacle leaving the field,
getting into other teammates face, complained about being a third
down guy, you re upped him. You said, Okay, this

(40:48):
is one of our foundational moves. That guy's gonna be
a part of our franchise going forward, and that guy's
a part of a defense now for back to back
years that's at the bottom of the NFL. And not
one time after giving up forty five or points does
he say I needed to be better. Not one time
did he address the mistack. And he said, we tackled.
They just got the ball out quick. They ran screen.

(41:09):
Thank you Arthur Smith. Thank you Arthur Smith for doing
something to ruin the NFL. Because now defense, why do
defenses exist?

Speaker 10 (41:18):
Now? Yeah, I'm offenses know what to do.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
I talk about this with the Bengals all the time
that I think when they're when they're at maximum, maximum capacity,
they're hard to prepare for it. They're hard to defend,
and I think they are. We've seen when the San
Francisco forty nine ers are healthy, and they haven't been
healthy all year long, but in their two runs to
the Super Bowl, you and I have talked about them.

(41:41):
I love watching them because they look like they're just
miserable to play, miserable to prepare for, and really hard
to attack. Kansas City's offense not so much this year,
but in years past you would say, but they're explosive
and they're just really difficult to prepare for and play.
I don't feel that way about the Pittsburgh Steelers. I

(42:04):
don't feel that way about the Los Angeles Chargers. I
don't feel that way about the Washington Commanders.

Speaker 10 (42:10):
Nope.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
And I'm not really sure I should.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Feel that way about the Baltimore Ravens and the Lamar
Jackson's a different animal. That's the thing that's frustrating to me.
I have watched teams that are good. I mean, look,
the Steelers are a good football team. The Chargers are
a good football team. Justin Herbert's a very good talent,
and they have good players. But I don't look at
what they do and go, man, how do you prepare
for that.

Speaker 10 (42:30):
Week to week? No one is losing sleep over there.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Or God, pick your poison, take this away, but then
this is gonna kill you. I'm watching teams that are
using basic schemes and a complement of offensive players that
aren't among the best, and they're having their way with
this defense.

Speaker 8 (42:48):
Yeah, that's why I thought they had a chance going forward,
because I thought, even with Pittsburgh's defense and giving up
under twenty a game, I trust the offense. Uh, it's
a defense that won't go up against the team like
they've seen before this year, and against the Pittsburgh Steelers,
who are basic offensively.

Speaker 10 (43:09):
You made Russell Wilson into the MVP of the league.

Speaker 8 (43:12):
You made their receiving corps again looked like the greatest
show on turf, and The problem I have is, you know,
Dan Horde had the stat after the game. Tom Brady
in his career start to finish YEP had four games
in which he threw for or they scored thirty three
or more points than he lost.

Speaker 10 (43:30):
Burrows had four this year.

Speaker 8 (43:31):
And I listened to Burrows post game and it's I
gotta be better. I'm not doing good enough. I can't
make these mistakes. I listened to Tomlin at halftime yesterday
coming out not happy, right, not happy because he thought
the defense was bad. He went in and he focused
on tackling. Thought they were missing tackles. Defense wasn't anywhere
near Joe Burrow. They needed to be better at that.

(43:53):
And I just listened to Jermaine Pride essentially say, uh,
you know, we gave up forty four, but to their credit,
they got the ball out quick. They ran screens. We
tried to go zero and they got the ball out
quick again.

Speaker 10 (44:07):
And again.

Speaker 8 (44:08):
All I want, if I'm talking about a culture in
a locker room, all I want is a player to say, damn,
we're not good enough, and it starts with me.

Speaker 10 (44:17):
I wasn't good enough today. Logan Wilson didn't play.

Speaker 8 (44:20):
I'm called upon to be the guy at the linebacking level,
because do you know who is tasked in the National
Football League or any level of football with stopping the
quick game or screen game. That would be the linebacking corps.
That's your area. And not one time did I hear
hand up. I gotta be better right now. I thought

(44:41):
Pittsburgh did some good things schematically that made things tough.
But I have to be better. It starts with me.
We as a defense need to be better. It's not
good enough what we've been doing. Instead, all I heard
was excuses from a quote unquote team leader, and I
can't help, but wonder how does that reverberate in the
locker room?

Speaker 10 (44:58):
That is that is ba to me.

Speaker 8 (45:02):
That the answer to those questions is, well, they ran
screens and they got the ball out quick.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Is there an offensive coordinator in the league that says,
you know what we're gonna do is have our quarterback
hold onto the football as long.

Speaker 10 (45:16):
As like, what other answer do you want? It's it's
it again.

Speaker 8 (45:24):
It to me speaks about the locker room right now,
And for a long time that was the credit we
gave Zach. But that locker room is a lot easier
when you're winning. I hear leaders say that's on me.
I need to be better. I can't turn the ball
over three times. We don't have that margin.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
We've heard it from offensive players all season long. Correct,
offensive players who are playing very well.

Speaker 8 (45:48):
That's say we essentially need to be perfect and we're
not perfect, and that's on us. How about the side
of the ball that's given up forty four? How about
the side of the ball that's gashed weekend and week out? Like,
how can the locker room be healthy? The ping punk
table change all that? They just hey you guys, you
guys suck today, But you know what, let's play best
out of three here on the tame.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Do you think they can have like an offense versus
defense ping pong tournament?

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (46:14):
I think what they should have as festivus.

Speaker 8 (46:17):
I want to I want to get that poll out
and I want to go a real airing of the grievances,
and I want the media to be invited, not to
ask questions, but to just witness.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Well, we do have to explore what the next coaching
gimmick is going to be. Yeah, because the ping punk
table obviously didn't work. But but when we come back.

Speaker 8 (46:36):
And again and again shout out to Arthur Smith. Oh man,
how long has football been around?

Speaker 3 (46:41):
You know, the NFL itself has been around for one
hundred and five years. Football goes back to the late
eighteen Arthur.

Speaker 8 (46:47):
Smith did something yesterday somebody has never been done. And
the genius of it he waited. He didn't pull it
out when they couldn't score touchdown against Baltimore and he said,
you know what, I'm not pulling it out in the snow.
He waited till they came to say, Incinnati to change
the game of football forever. Good luck defenses, good luck
now guarding anyone on offense that you're gonna get the

(47:07):
ball out quick.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
Well, you know, I sat at the game yesterday next
to an eight year old little boy, and I was
having a hard time explaining to him, like, hey kid, I.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
I know you're just learning about this sport. Game changed foreverthing.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
I can't put into words what Pittsburgh is doing offensively
because it's so out there.

Speaker 10 (47:23):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I mean this Arthur Smith guy, he and his mustache.
They are doing things. I've never seen stuff like this before.
What they're gonna do is is take Corderyl Patterson. Yeah,
and have him run five yards and turn around and
catch the ball and Russell Wilson's gonna get rid of
it very quickly, and it's your defenseless. There's no defense
for this, there's no antidote. This is incurable. So sorry, kid,

(47:46):
the game I've loved my whole life is gone well.
And you would imagine, like if you're the Bengals, like
if you're if you're Zach Taylor looking to add like
a tour to the box offensively, Dude, did you see
what Arthur Smith brought to town? And you could use
that as a part of maybe being perfect, because the
Bengals offensively have to be when we come back. I
want to address something that Zach Taylor has alluded to

(48:07):
twice in the aftermath of yesterday's game, and that's the
Bengals having the right guys on defense. I want to
know who they are. We'll find out when we come back.
Tony and Mo Football showed twin Peaks in Florence on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Now this is football in Thenetti, brought to you in
part by Modern Opus Methods. On the official home of
the Bengals Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
It's twenty four after four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
By the way, Bengals have assigned Shaka Hayward off the
practice squad and they have cut Trent Irwin.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Ji roster move Saka Heyward. Shaka Hayward will fix everything.

Speaker 10 (48:50):
Remember that period of time where Joe Burrow showed his
greatness because Trent Narbin was a weapon. Yeah, when Chase
or Higgins would missed time.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
What they should do with Trent Nerwin to see if
you can play defense.

Speaker 8 (49:00):
Yeah, gotta gotta be better than what they have right now.
It's just not how I thought it would go. You
know our ten year.

Speaker 10 (49:08):
I thought this year was gonna culminate with you and
I doing a show in New Orleans.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
You know we still can it just be on our time?

Speaker 10 (49:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
I love New Orleans.

Speaker 10 (49:18):
Yeah, I thought it we'd have, we'd have an extended
season ten.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
But like therein lies the frustrating part. We make fun
of the defense. We went into the season asking can they.

Speaker 10 (49:29):
Be League average top twenty?

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Like the standard is really low, Like just just don't
get in the way of Joe Burrow's greatness.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Allow twenty three points.

Speaker 10 (49:41):
A game, don't don't resistance totally suck for force three
punts a game?

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Yeah, force a few punts like that that we're not
We're not asking them to have a top five defense.

Speaker 10 (49:52):
Be a bad defense, but a good red zone defense.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Ben, but don't break there.

Speaker 10 (49:56):
It is yards, not points there, it is.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
You know that.

Speaker 8 (50:01):
The sobering thing is I tweeted it. It was kind
of a joke but also depressing, like.

Speaker 10 (50:07):
We're a couple of years removed from a super Bowl
in college football playoff uh huh, and it feels like
decades ago.

Speaker 8 (50:14):
It does, and it feels like today that they are
further away from it than they are closer to it. Agreed,
because it doesn't feel like the defense is a an
offseason fix.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 10 (50:28):
So there's holes offensively, Now you're gonna have morcaus T's.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Gonna walk, no doubt. So a lot of focus on
Louena Rumo, deservedly. So if they moved on from Luenna Rumo,
I think we'd all be okay. But like Zach Taylor said,
we have the right guys on defense, who are they?

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Trey Hendrickson is a good player.

Speaker 8 (50:47):
He's a good player. One stat yesterday, one tackle, yes, disappear.
I need more from Trey like I need more from
Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
So let's assume Trey is going to be on the
team next year, the last year of his contract.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Who else would you want? Like that's the thing?

Speaker 10 (51:07):
Maybe I'll say I've thought it.

Speaker 8 (51:09):
Maybe Logan Wilson because he's a sure tackler, he doesn't
miss tackles.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Okay, fine, Logan Wilson.

Speaker 8 (51:15):
But he doesn't wow you. But I think he's a
good player. Okay, I'll give you Logan Wilson. Who else
on this year's on this year's defense? Or you're like,
you know what, I want that guy in the team
next year. Gentleman over there, yells bj Hill. BJ Hill
had a good game against the Giants. Okay, what else
you got? I don't think BJ Hill is a every

(51:36):
snap player. I think he's a rotational.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Right, so, rotational piece for next year, BJ Hill, I
don't know. I'll give you Bj Hill, Okay, rotational piece.
I don't know yet. On Miles Murphy. But if you
look at snap's kind of a problem. If you look
at snap count, it tells you all. They you need
to know because Osai gets more snaps than Murphy.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
All right, I like Chris Jenkins.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, I think there's I think there's some promise there,
Chris Jenkins.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
It will be year two next season.

Speaker 10 (52:01):
Do you want to give McKinley Jackson a little time?

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (52:05):
I think when drafting him they weren't expecting him to
be a guy. But McKinley Jackson, I'm just I'm grasping
its draws here.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Who else is good? Sam Hubbard?

Speaker 3 (52:13):
No, God, it's just the plays aren't there, man, Sorry, great,
good career, good Hubbard, yard.

Speaker 10 (52:21):
Dash does great stuff in the community.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
The plays aren't there, Awesome, The plays aren't there in
the secondary. I do not want to watch Geno Stone
play another down of football like legitimately. No, legitimately, I
do not. If you said to me I had to
lick the bottom of your shoe or watch Geno Stone
play Monday night against the Cowboys, I might lick the
botom of your shoe.

Speaker 10 (52:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
I do not want to watch him. So can we
please not bring him back next season? Von Bell's done.
Von Bell's done. Cam Taylor Brent made the second play
of the season that he's made all.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Year a week flagged. Yeah, I thought the dude slipped.

Speaker 10 (52:57):
But regardless, he made a play and then disappeared.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Made a planet, disappeared, couldn't get off blocks. Cam Taylor
biddll be on the team next year. But he's gonna
be your best corner again. We're gonna do that.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Nope, best corner on a bad defense is a bad corner.

Speaker 10 (53:10):
How does Dax Hill come back?

Speaker 3 (53:12):
I would tell Dax Hill, big boy, you're playing safety, Like, dude,
you were drafted to be a safety.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
This is your year. You gotta figure it out. You're
gonna play safety.

Speaker 10 (53:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
I like on this defense, who are the guys?

Speaker 8 (53:23):
And I know after like things happen, Like Dax Hill's
fifth year option in twenty twenty six is fifteen million.
Uh do you know that Jesse Baits salary in twenty
twenty six is fourteen million?

Speaker 10 (53:35):
But can't pay Jesse can't pay Tea.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
So Dj Turner unfortunately is hurt.

Speaker 10 (53:42):
I thought he showed a little bit of upside.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
He was playing well against the Chargers.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Not a corner one, no, but so like I got
a bunch of dudes at corner who are fringe guys?
Not guys that you're gonna line up against. How much
more is my Kilton got the best? Dude, they're already
taking them off the field on my Kilton can't come
back next year?

Speaker 10 (54:01):
Okay, So once I give us three guys, so four
guys on defense.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Logan Wilson your boy because he's a good tackler.

Speaker 10 (54:07):
Yes, and he's been in the right place, right place,
right time.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
J Hill's rotational piece. I like Chris Jenkins. We're not
giving up on McKinley Jackson, Trey Hendrickson comes back, anybody
else were like dying to half back? Like if we
said about most of those guys, including Cam Taylor, Britt
and DJ Turner, like they leave that, they quit football,
leave the Bengals and you're like, oh my god, how
do they replace that? So the question is this, Like

(54:32):
the Bengals, this is still the super Bowl window right
like next.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Next year they will have Joe Burrow.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
The idea behind having Joe Burrow is you never have
to completely rebuild, and yet you've got to revamp this
defense from scratch very quickly in one offseason. You trust
in Duke Tobin to do that.

Speaker 10 (54:50):
More sobering peace, do the same exercise on offense.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
We will do that when I come back, because I
want to stay on time here. But the question is
Duke Tobin, right, the guy who kind of put this
mess together is going to be in charge of cleaning
it up and then.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Building a new one.

Speaker 10 (55:09):
They have failed.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
I do not trust that to happen.

Speaker 10 (55:12):
They have failed to replace Jesse Bates for years. Uh huh.

Speaker 8 (55:15):
They have failed in the draft for years. They moved
on from Cheetoh didn't fit anymore. Right, we can replace
him with Cam Taylor. Britt doesn't work.

Speaker 10 (55:28):
I don't.

Speaker 8 (55:29):
I don't have faith anymore. And the personnel decisions that
this organization is making.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Right, So that's the problem. That's that's the thing.

Speaker 8 (55:38):
I don't even the pole knew what they were getting
with Trey Hendrickson. I thought they were like, that's a
good bargain for us, let's get him.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
Maybe yeah, sure, but they acquired him. You would to
credit him for that.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
That's fine. But when they built the defenses in twenty
one and twenty.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Two, it was throw money at it, throw money at
DJ Reader and everybody said at the time they overpaid,
which is what they had to do.

Speaker 10 (55:59):
Awesome worked out, Yeah, Larry Ogunjobi.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Now they can't just throw money at it like they
have to nail it in the draft, and they have
to nail it with free agents who are affordable.

Speaker 8 (56:11):
And in all likelihood now you're gonna have to nail
it with bargain guys that you buy on upside that
should be probably coming in and having to learn a
new system because there should be a new defensive coordinator.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Well, but whoever the defensive coordinator is, the players have
to fit.

Speaker 8 (56:27):
Yeah, which, by the way, lou did talk today and
he said status quo at safety because they're.

Speaker 10 (56:30):
Both playing hard. Of course, they are no changes coming
at safety.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
So yeah, it's easy to say blow up the defense
and start from scratch. I don't trust Duke Tobin to
build a defense from scratch and get the thing turned
around at a year. Correct it is, We'll do the
exercise on offense if you want. It's twenty eight minutes
away from five o'clock. He's Tony Pike on moegor Tony
and mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in Florence on

(56:57):
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
You've been listening to Football in Minetti on the official
home of the Bengals Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. It's Monday
at three on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
What's Up lines in the service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home
Up lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their
family to yours for life kelseyshev dot Com. Shaka Hayward
signed by the Bengals that they have to practice squad.
Cincinnati has waived Trenton Irwin, who had played in seven games,
including two starts, for the Bengals this year. Hayward's a
first year player, originally a college free agent signee of

(57:36):
the Bengals in twenty twenty three, spent all of last
season in the first thirteen weeks and this season on
the team's practice squad. Was elevated from the practice squad
to the active roster for the game two weeks ago
against the Chargers Bengals Cowboys. A week from tonight Live
on ESPN fifteen thirty. ESPN fifteen thirty has Monday Night
Football Tonight, Browns and Broncos. The Browns could just beat

(57:59):
the Bronco. Don't beals. Bengals and Broncos relation to each
other kind of where they were when the week started.

Speaker 8 (58:06):
No, not doing that. I'm done, not even gonna let
myself get talked into about a lot of this.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
If by eleven thirty tonight the Browns pull off the upset,
you'll see folks, you.

Speaker 10 (58:16):
Know, Oh, there will be folks doing it. You know.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Just just just make that game matter. Just make that
game against the Broncos. Was that week seventeen? Make that
game against the Broncos matter?

Speaker 10 (58:24):
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 8 (58:25):
What I'm worried about right now is Cooper Rush just
salivated a chance to go against this defense.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
What I'm worried about right now is a college basketball
The initial NCAA NET rankings came out today. You see eleventh,
Kentucky eighth. I was a little surprised that Xavier fell
out of that or wasn't in the top one hundred
and one to oh three.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Survived day scare yesterday.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
Yes against South Carolina State, Muskies do hold on to
win the AP Top twenty five and coaches poll. Cincinnati
is now fourteenth in both. Kentucky is fourth in the AP,
sixth in the coaches poll. Xavier, by virtue of the
loss to Michigan, no surprise, Muskies drop out. Miami plays

(59:11):
tonight against air Force. Just as an aside, my I
just I went to go to ESPN site because I
wanted to mention that game.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
I didn't know where it was.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
It's a Mallett Hall and on the schedule they have,
you know, the the tickets like what you can get
them for. Tickets start as low as forty six bucks.
The get in price to Mallett Hall tonight for Miami
versus air Force is apparently forty six bucks. Wow, what
am I missing? That's good question. Red Hawks played really
well in Fort Myers, beat Siena, beat Mercer. I like

(59:40):
Travis Steele for forty six bucks. If you want to
go watch Miami play air Force and basketball tonight, stiff. Okay,
was that one of the maddest You've seen Wes Miller?

Speaker 10 (59:53):
It's the I've.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Seen Wes Miller.

Speaker 10 (59:55):
Yeah, the maddest.

Speaker 8 (59:58):
I didn't get to hear the post game, but I
saw his like halftime, you could just tell it was
And I was brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
I took it as I mean, first of all, the
way they played.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Every team of college basketball has that game, right, just
it's a bye game, It's a slog. We just went
on the road to play a game against an Acci
day before Thanksgiving, Villanova's coming up. They went through the motions,
should it happen, No, doesn't happen all the time. Yes,
But I took that as Wes understanding. He has a

(01:00:27):
good enough team to be able to do that, and
a group of guys that can react to that because
they're gonna have to. I don't think this game tomorrow
night is gonna come as easy as a lot of
people do.

Speaker 10 (01:00:38):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
And you know, let's be honest, the sky L Chili
Crosstown Shootout looms, and there's some pressure on Wes to
win it this year, so let's say some Yeah, put
the foot on the gas. That is as upset as
I've seen him. That's as upset as I've seen a
UC coach since Smick was here. I did not see
or hear Scott Sadderfield sound that angry after the game
on Saturday. And we're gonna get to that little bit

(01:01:00):
later on. We just went to the exercise on the defense.
Who would you keep? Who do you want?

Speaker 10 (01:01:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
So I think I keep Burrow, I think i'd keep Chase.
I know I'm not keeping t Higgins. Right, the question
really becomes about that offensive line.

Speaker 10 (01:01:16):
What do you keep Kyoseki.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
Yes, sure, Kisiki. Hopefully Eric All comes back. I like
Chase Brown.

Speaker 8 (01:01:25):
You can make an argument you need a second back.
But from a starter standpoint, Mims, yes, Orlando Brown Junior, Yes,
the middle three guys, middle three guys like you you
put on the other side of you know, if if
Ted Carris were to retire, love what he's done in
the city, without question. He's been awesome and he's serviceable.

(01:01:49):
He's good, he's not great. The guards stink, So I
think I got my bookend guys, huh. But Tomlins halftime
was literally we need pressure up the middle. That's important
to get a quarterback out of his rhythm and to
move him side to side. And I don't trust that
three consistently in the middle. So Burrow the two tackles,

(01:02:14):
Chase Kasicki, Yoshi.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Yeah, sure, fine, he's not filling the t Higgins role.
But here's the thing. We talked about this in drafting
of Marius Mimms. Here's why, at least for me, I
was in favor of it, Because if you're ever gonna
build an eld offensive line, an elite one. It's going
to come in the draft. Yeah, Now, you can find
a free agent. But if you are going to build

(01:02:41):
a top end offensive line, which the Bengals haven't had
in almost a decade, that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Is occurring via the draft.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Okay, so they have to get the work on that,
which they did this past year with Marius Mimms. That
has to continue this year except you have to rebuild
your entire defense.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
And T.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Higgins is going to want and wide receivers like that
don't grow on trees. And you've got some good players there,
but you don't have a T. Higgins So you've got
to go get wide receiver help. Now that that's a
position where players often come from college and can step
into play at a really high.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Level very quickly.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
And so yeah, you could draft a wide receiver, except
you've got to rebuild your entire defense.

Speaker 10 (01:03:20):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
And here's the problem. There's too many holes to plug
in one offseason.

Speaker 8 (01:03:26):
That's that that's the ultimate issue. And again, do you
have the correct coaching and scheme in place to start,
because like I take what I watched last night, Buffalo
Josh Allen, Khalil, Shakir Dawson, Knox Amari Cooper, like not

(01:03:48):
not a star studded core good players, but they know
who they are and what they want to be Offensively,
they have a true identity and they're now building around that.
James Cook was an unbelievable pick up that they have
at running back. He's a guy that is making a
difference on that team. But if I'm looking, I need
an identity before I can put the personnel in there. Yeah,

(01:04:09):
I need to know what the scheme, what the identity
is going to be on offense and defense before I
build it.

Speaker 10 (01:04:14):
It feels like we're going backwards. It feels like we're
just throwing guys in and then when they're no longer
good here, it's why they don't fit this scheme?

Speaker 8 (01:04:21):
What is the scheme? What about the scheme? Did Jesse
Bates not fit in? What about the scheme? Didchto not
work in? What about the scheme? Did Joe Mixon not
work in? I don't understand. I don't understand where the
disconnect is. So we could talk about flipping the roster
to me. Who do you want to be?

Speaker 10 (01:04:40):
Is the first question?

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
I mean, even like Geno Stone, who I really don't
want to watch play anymore. Geno Stone was an ascending
player with the Baltimore Ravens, and now he's terrible.

Speaker 10 (01:04:50):
There were people in Baltimore mad that they lost him.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
So is it a bad scheme that Genostone is playing
in and he was in a good scheme in Baltimore
or did he just turn into a bad player?

Speaker 10 (01:05:01):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Good question.

Speaker 8 (01:05:03):
Yeah, I I but I feel like more often than
not we've had the same comp What is their identity?

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
I am looking at a list here from the Muse
dot com and these are like team building activities, Oh
that they suggest for corporations and businesses, because we're trying
to figure out what coaching gimmick they can use.

Speaker 10 (01:05:25):
Would you keep the ping pong table and add on
to it?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Or you want you add on to it like this?

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
This woman suggests, like everybody solve like a big jigsaw puzzle,
or you just get a bunch of jigsaw puzzles.

Speaker 8 (01:05:38):
Yeah, what about I've seen a lot of people that
like escape rooms.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
She suggests escape room.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
She also suggests show and tell, which you know is
sort of like an elementary school kind of thing.

Speaker 10 (01:05:50):
But I thought that's what they did on that second long.

Speaker 8 (01:05:56):
Like they showed and told with Russell Wilson exactly where
they were going to be before this nap, or like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
She suggests untangl a human knot.

Speaker 10 (01:06:05):
Oh, that's the whole defense.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
This is a fun way to have team members come
together to solve a problem, give out blind directions.

Speaker 10 (01:06:13):
Okay, saw some of that yesterday. Yep. It feels like
that's every defensive call.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Or like you have somebody come in and teach, like
a cooking class or an improv class.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Sign up for trivia.

Speaker 10 (01:06:25):
See.

Speaker 8 (01:06:25):
I like the improv thing because you can like spill
it out as like, oh, this is just an act.

Speaker 10 (01:06:29):
I can really get some stuff off your chest.

Speaker 8 (01:06:31):
Book club, Like, I don't feel like this, but the
defense as a whole you all stink. Hey, it's just improv.
I don't really mean it. I'm just playing the class.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
So this this woman here, Elise Maguire, She wrote this
back in May. Fun team building activities and games to
try in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
On top of the I don't want to take the
ping punk table away.

Speaker 10 (01:06:52):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
I just what about what some football coaches do that
thing where they like take a football and bury it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Maybe do that? I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
Here's the first twelve games, but we're still you know,
we're still in it. Guys, Let's take the football and
bury it. Yeah, like maybe out by the Concrete Company
or something.

Speaker 8 (01:07:09):
Yeah, I mean I used to like the movie Semi
Proea and they come together for a fourth place game
and they really go all out for fourth place, right,
and now that could be like winning season could be
the rallying cry. Oh, because that's still on the table
if they win their next five.

Speaker 10 (01:07:29):
They finished nine and eight, so and then you wouldn't
really have to and then.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
There's gonna be like, hey, four straight years a winning season.

Speaker 8 (01:07:37):
How many teams have done that? Or may do you
really want to touch the roster in the offseason? They
won five in a row down the stretch.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
A lot to play for. Look, I'm just trying to
help Zach here. He's got a full plate.

Speaker 8 (01:07:50):
Has Cooper Rush ever been more excited to start a
football game?

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
No, Like, if I'm ceedee lamb.

Speaker 10 (01:07:57):
Oh, yeah, you know this is it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
If I'm I'm Jerry Jones, i am I'm already booking
myself on shows after the game to talk about how
awesome my offense was at home? Like this is the
game where Mike McCarthy's gonna get his contract extension.

Speaker 10 (01:08:14):
Yep, they're already hitting at it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I can't wait.

Speaker 8 (01:08:16):
They're already hinting at it in Dallas. Jerry's talked about
in Dallas. And you know if they win on Monday,
they're six and seven. Oh, you know, they're.

Speaker 10 (01:08:24):
Right back smack dab in the middle of things.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
It's uh eleven away from five o'clock. He's Tony Pike.
I've got the right guys in this room.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
You got the right guys in this room. There's and
then right women too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show at Twin
Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Make the most of your holidays with.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Seven away from five o'clock Tony and Mo Football Show
Twin Peaks in Florence. We are here until six o'clock tonight,
the day after the Bengals were beaten a one score
game by the Pittsburgh Steelers. I want to try to
get inside the head of Joe Burrow when we come back.
We also have to put a bow on the UC

(01:09:05):
football season. U SE goes from two and five to
five and seven, five and two.

Speaker 10 (01:09:11):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
You see goes from five and two to five and seven.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Feels like they were two and five.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
They go from five and two to five and seven.
We will discuss what's next. We'll talk about the Ohio
State loss to Michigan, that broken record, and we have to,
of course spend time on flag planting.

Speaker 10 (01:09:26):
You said Joe Burrow the man to blame for yesterday's los.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Oh yeah, there are people who blame Joe Burrow. Yeah.
Well those people, look, frankly, are stupid. That's fine.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
All that to get to and more between now and six.
Here at Twin Peaks in Florence, Tony and Mo Football
Show on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 6 (01:09:43):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UCE Health
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(01:10:04):
that's causing a five minute delay if you're on northbound
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Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
I'm Nicole with.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Moro Football Show Live from the Twin Peaks brought to
you in part by Encore Technologies. Visit OnCore dot Tech
and Station East Coast subs Penn Station. It's all in
good taste Honda East Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience, First State
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just off I seventy one X and fifty inside the

(01:10:40):
Holiday and at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri
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on the official home of the Bengal Cincinnatis ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
It's the Tony Emo Football Show, The Power Hour Hour,
number three hour at Twin Peaks in Florence. We are
here until six o'clock. We're back in Florence next Tuesday
day after the Bengals play the Dallas Cowboys.

Speaker 8 (01:11:08):
Well we get six more of these guaranteed. Guaranteed, there's
still a chance. So still a chance if you are
listening or you're a co worker that is putting it
off and putting it off and putting it off.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Can we just pull the curtain back when it comes
to that because we reference it every week. Yes, we
work with some great people, terrific people.

Speaker 10 (01:11:27):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
And as the football season gets closer and you know, hey,
we're back at twin peaks, how.

Speaker 10 (01:11:33):
Many times, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Does someone that we work with that we like come
up to you and say, like, I'm gonna.

Speaker 10 (01:11:39):
Try to get to one of those shows this year.
When does it start? Are you going to be at
this location? Here's the schedule, Yeah, here's when it starts.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
I mean probably a dozen or so times just in
the month of August. Twelve times I believe anything he says.
But beyond him, I don't believe. About a dozen or
so times in the month of August, someone that we
work with we'll say to me to my face, like
get to a show this year, yep, and this year,
correct me if I'm wrong. Exactly three of our.

Speaker 10 (01:12:06):
Coworkers, Austin came once.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Austin did come once.

Speaker 10 (01:12:10):
Tom came a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Huh.

Speaker 10 (01:12:12):
One was because the film guys were here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Yeah, he was here for the NFL film guys.

Speaker 10 (01:12:16):
He was here for that. Our guy Joe, and our
guy Joe came.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
Everybody else.

Speaker 10 (01:12:21):
No, we have basically almost everyone in the office at
this point since we've been doing this, has said we're
gonna come out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Yeah, and it's always like like it's like, well, I
you know, I live in northern Kentucky, so I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
I'm not gonna go to west Chester. But when you're
in Florence, I'll come.

Speaker 8 (01:12:33):
It always seems to add up the wrong way when
they want to come, We're at the wrong location.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Yeah, like, oh you know what, I would have come.
If you were in Westchester, I would come. So we
only have six guaranteed to go, and I think the
distribution is three in Florence including today, and three in Westchester.
So just putting it out there, well, and you know
we will be doing a show on the twenty third,
which you know, it's Christmas, right, everyone's off, everyone's off,

(01:12:58):
and so are so like that's gonna be the ten year.

Speaker 8 (01:13:01):
That would be the big the big gift. They don't
charge a cover they to come in. The drinks are amazing,
the selections phenomenal, great food TV's all over the place, yep,
and they don't charge you to come in here.

Speaker 10 (01:13:15):
No, it's great. Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
By the way, I got pole questions thanks to United
Heartland Insurance on X at Moegar, and one of them's
about Duke Tobin. Uh do you trust him to rebuild
the Bengals defense? Ninety one point one percent say no, man.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
The other one is I borrowed from this website.

Speaker 10 (01:13:34):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
Poll questions on X you only get four choices, so
I took which I thought were the best four ones.
What is the team building exercise slash gimmick that Zach
Taylor should try next? Like this giant jigsaw puzzle show
and tell untangle a human knot or have them take
a cooking class right now, cooking class is running away
with it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
That's big. That is big.

Speaker 10 (01:13:55):
That's a big thing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Now, yeah, I would. Jena's good. This is a good one.
That's a good suggestion.

Speaker 8 (01:14:01):
But you know what happens if like a defensive player
knocks the jange board over and then the offensive guys like, oh,
you cost us the game again and then boom yeah,
or you know cooking. I guess you know, oh you burnt.
That happens all the time on Sundays, Toast toast. Today

(01:14:23):
we're gonna be burning toast.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
So if you're Joe Burrow, you're watching, you're.

Speaker 10 (01:14:34):
Talking about the man who's the blame. Yes, Joe Burrow.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
So Shannon Sharp, I guess on first take kind of
put this all on Joe Burrow, which doesn't make it.

Speaker 10 (01:14:42):
It's not even that, it's it's people like I posted
stuff about Burrow yesterday because he's amazing. Yes, like the
plays that Joe Burrow makes that shouldn't be made, a
jump pass, the jump pass, making guys miss escaping, scrambling
eyes down the field. If those plays don't get made,
this all defense doesn't do anything. His elusiveness and playmaking

(01:15:04):
ability is the only reason that this team is any
sort of relevant.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
You said it before.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
If Joe Burrow, who leads the league in yards, touchdowns,
and yards per game and is having a better season
statistically than his MVP finalist season, if the Bengals were.

Speaker 10 (01:15:23):
Eight for today, he's the MVP.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
He would be the odds on front runner to be
the national League or the National Football League MVP right,
So is the perfect no player is If you are
starting a list of reasons why the Bengals are four
and eight, Joe Burrow is not even on it.

Speaker 8 (01:15:42):
Just a micro cossup yesterday Cam Hayward, who's great, Yeah,
gets his hands on a ball. Most of the time,
when a defender gets his hands on a ball, it
comes back at you. It gets knocked down. This one
gets knocked up in the air just enough that T.
Higgins can still get a hand on it, which thens
get tipped again to a defender.

Speaker 10 (01:16:02):
Who's out of position. Fluke play. TJ.

Speaker 8 (01:16:05):
Watt not a bad player in the league at all,
defensive play like he's pretty good. Good player on the play,
Cody Ford pulls from guard to block TJ. Watt Burrow's
push from the pocket because that's what he has to
do every single time he drops back is make a
play and TJ.

Speaker 10 (01:16:23):
Watt scrips him. Good play.

Speaker 8 (01:16:26):
If you think Joe Burrows to blame for the third fumble,
then I suggest just finding something new to watch, because
if Orlando Brown Junior had just got a hand on
the defender, the ball was coming out like the defender
didn't get touched, and Joe Burrow took one, two, three,
and the ball was coming out and if you look

(01:16:46):
behind the receivers just getting out of his break, the timing,
you couldn't be any quicker. He gets hit from his
blind side, not from a blitz that he didn't know
was just his tackle, didn't touch anyone because he was
playing injured. Right, you can't put that on Joe Burrow. No, Now,
Joe will joelse. I can't turn the ball over. I

(01:17:07):
heard us he'll take blame, which is a novel concept
when when your team loses, but you cannot start a
list of things that is wrong with this team or
why this team is losing and put him on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
He's not on it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
He just he's having an MVP caliber seat. He's a
great quarterback. He is a legitimately great quarterback. Wasting his
greatness and the greatness of Jamar Chase and when he's
been on the field, T Higgins along with it is
the greatest organizational failure in the history of the Cincinnati Bengals.
I don't say that intending to hot take it with

(01:17:42):
the intention of throwing hyperbole into the mix. Wasting the
season that he is having wasting that greatness there has
never been in a franchise often defined by failure, there
has never been a bigger failure. And so you might say, well,
you know, Show's under contract for years, he can't go anywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
It's never good to have your most.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Important employee unhappy, correct, And so I just I wonder
what I wonder what he is thinking watching. Okay, I've
been here now for a few years. I've seen them
not be able to replace Jesse Bates. I've seen them
not be able to draft good defensive players. I've seen
them never be able to put a good offensive line

(01:18:24):
in front of me. Sometimes an average one, never a
good offensive line in front of me. I've seen them
screw up the Jamar Chase thing, where now it's going
to cost them more to keep him around after the
season that he has had. I'm watching Luanna Roumo continue
to keep his gig to calling this defense which can't
stop anybody. And yet I'm doing my thing. I work

(01:18:46):
as hard as anybody. I'm putting up killer numbers. I'm
continually putting up thirty four to thirty five, thirty eight
points in games, and we're losing like there is going
to be a point of pure exasper And and that's
even if the guy can't leave his contract, even if
the guy is not gonna pull a Carson Palmer or

(01:19:08):
an Andrew look in no way, shape or form.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Is that good for the health of your franchise.

Speaker 10 (01:19:13):
Nope, You've seen it wear on him. This is this season.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
See the body language.

Speaker 8 (01:19:18):
And again, I just I don't want to look back
a year from now or two years from now, three
years from now and say, man, can you believe they
wasted that twenty twenty four season? Can you believe that
the weapons that they had, because it's probably gonna be
a much different looking roster. Can you believe Joe Burrow,
who a healthy year, did that and they won how

(01:19:39):
many games? And then t Higgins walked like I'm sorry,
and people get mad about it. If I'm Jamar Chase,
I'm seriously thinking about the end of this season. You
gotta play meaningless games. You sat out all camp. You've
already showed him to the best receiver in football.

Speaker 6 (01:19:57):
Now.

Speaker 8 (01:19:57):
I get you could finish the season as the triple
Crown winner, and that's probably enough to keep you going.
But if you're on air tomorrow and news breaks that
T Higgins or Jamar Chase is shutting it down.

Speaker 10 (01:20:10):
Are you shocked?

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
And that was the scenario we explored and kind of
laughed at back in August because we thought the Bengals
would at the very least be playing meaningful football. And
mathematically they are right, but they could be mathematically eliminated
as soon as next week.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
You know, They're quote tragic number is three. So the
way that is.

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
Is any combination of Denver wins and Bengals losses adding
up to three, and they're eliminated. And there are obviously
teams in between Cincinnati and Denver indye one yesterday Miami
lost on Thanksgiving Night. But I think it will be interesting.
I believe those players will all play as long as
mathematically there's a chance, but there is a better than

(01:20:56):
average chance that with multiple games to go, they will
be a liminated. And then the questions become, does Jamar say,
uh uh, By the way, wouldn't blame them?

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Does T Higgins say uh uh? Yeah, wouldn't blame him?

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
And do the Bengals put Joe Burrow on the bench
And I wouldn't blame him for that either.

Speaker 8 (01:21:12):
Yeah, It's just it would punctuate the failure that this
season was to literally tap out early. But they've put
themselves in this story.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
They are they are tapping out early.

Speaker 8 (01:21:25):
Correct, They're tapping out already with their actions. We talked
about over the break Emmanuel Forbes, who was a former
first round pick not that long ago, right the Bengals. Well,
Emmanuel Forbes was picked up by the Rams. The Bengals
have a higher waiver claim than the Rams. Meaning had

(01:21:45):
the Bengals put in the waiver for Emmanuel Forbes, who
placed corner by the way, they would have got him. Now,
I've seen folks that say that's a lot of money
to give up. It would have been two years and
five million dollars. I saw James Rapine tweeted that out
two years, five million dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
He rode emphatically when he got let go this guy
to go for.

Speaker 8 (01:22:08):
The sixteenth pick in the draft, the first round, twenty
months ago, no serious injuries, and by all accounts, the
Bengals loved him in the draft. Their corners suck, They
are bad at corner. Your season is spirally out of control.
We just did the the the the concept of what

(01:22:29):
players would you build around? Why not take a flyer
on a former sixteenth round or sixteenth overall pick.

Speaker 10 (01:22:35):
In a position you direly need to see.

Speaker 8 (01:22:38):
If okay, maybe we found lightning in a bottle, as
happens in the NFL, and this guy can be a
piece going forward.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
For us at a position where they were working out
washed up dudes like Xavier Howard fo weeks ago.

Speaker 10 (01:22:49):
Two years, five million dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
And that was before guys started. That was before DJ
Turner got hurt.

Speaker 8 (01:22:54):
Oh my gosh, I get it's maddening. Two years, five million,
sixteenth overall pick twenty months ago in the NFL draft
at a position you are desperate for. That tells you
everything that you need to know about the Bengals. We're
mentally they're at because if so, it's like, you know what,

(01:23:16):
screw it, We're not mathematically out of it. We got
evaluating to do. Let's go get this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
Yeah, help us in the short term. And if he doesn't, okay, Yeah, how.

Speaker 10 (01:23:26):
Do you lose?

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
Right?

Speaker 10 (01:23:30):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Do you want to switch gears to college football?

Speaker 10 (01:23:35):
Yeah, let's plan our flag on college when we come.

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
Back seventeen minutes after five o'clock, He's Tony Pike Onmoegar.
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show. We're having
fun today. It is having a really good time today.
A Tonya mof football Show twin peaks in Florence on
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
In part by blood Light and by Skyline Shley on
the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
All right, it's twenty two minutes after five o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegar with Tony Bike. We call
it the Toni and Mo Football Show. We have been,
as you might understand, Bengals heavy for the first two hours.
In twenty minutes or so, now's the portion of the
show we can talk about the Bearcats.

Speaker 10 (01:24:24):
So here's the thing.

Speaker 8 (01:24:25):
Last week was the bye week edition of since He
or The Toni and Mo Football Show. Sure, and we
just ripped the band aid off early. Yeah, first segment
got it out of the way right. This sucks because
I had to know this was coming the whole show.
Like I like, we've talked about this a time. Man,

(01:24:47):
I am as big like playing there aside, I'm as
big of a Bearcat fan as you'll ever meet and
at five and two.

Speaker 10 (01:24:55):
I bought in YEP because you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
And I sat at Twin Peaks six weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
Today talking about five and two playing Colorado and could
the Bearcats be a factor in the Big twelve championship race.

Speaker 10 (01:25:09):
YEP, which is wide open and was wide open till
the end of the season.

Speaker 8 (01:25:12):
Uh huh. What has happened to this team since five
and two? I can't explain. They even the game they
won against Arizona State, they didn't score in the second half, right,
And since that moment, it has just progressively gotten worse.

Speaker 10 (01:25:34):
They've regressed on so.

Speaker 8 (01:25:37):
Many levels that the second half of Arizona State they
don't score a point. They scored twenty three at Colorado,
twenty four against West Virginia seventeen, fifteen, and thirteen to
finish the year, like they snuck by at UCF.

Speaker 10 (01:25:54):
It wasn't pretty. They scored nineteen points.

Speaker 8 (01:25:56):
Defense played better, but after that forty one point out
against Texas Tech, this offense was never the same. And
I can't put my finger on it. Because you have
a tight end who will play in the NFL. That
set the all time school record for catches by a
tight end in a season. Corey Kiner, who I would
go to battle for every day, has back to back

(01:26:19):
thousand yard seasons and yet a quarterback that was playing
at a really good level. Sowresby regressed the old line
I thought regressed.

Speaker 10 (01:26:27):
They lost.

Speaker 8 (01:26:29):
I didn't see many concept variations offensively, and they wasted
some pretty good defensive performances down the stretch. But from
five to two to five and seven, that's failure at
any level you look at it. That is complete and
utter failure.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
So a couple of things you just addressed there. The
offensive regression, it's one thing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
I guess, it's not unlike the conversation we had about
the Bengals defense. It's one thing.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
To not score a lot of points and lose. It's
something else to just go gun shy. And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
If that's Scott Saderfield.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
I don't know if that's Brendan Soresby and I talked
about this on the pregame show yesterday, first including the
Arizona State game. In the first seven games, yards per
attempt eight point three completed over sixty five percent of
his passes, and then the last five games, yards per
attempt five point three completed less than sixty percent of
his passes, And it was interesting to me that the

(01:27:33):
offense in the second half of the season became all
about high percentage throws, and yet he started completing a
lower percentage of his passes. There was no downfield front
at all. Nothing, There was no creativity.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
And you're right. I mean I said this to you yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
There's a lot of guys on that team that I
think other Big twelve schools would like to have. Xavier Henderson,
Corey Kiner, Joe Royer, John Williams, Luke Candra. And by
the way, I do think the defense got better as
the season went on. They looked more comfortable with the
three three five. They kept him in the game. For
what it's worth, on Saturday night. What happened to the

(01:28:11):
offense is to me, at least one of the more
mind blowing things I've seen. It didn't occur because of injury.
It didn't occur because suddenly they were playing these incredibly
good teams.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
Good teams.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Don't take anything away from Iowa State or Kansas State
or Colorado. They weren't playing Georgia, Alabama, Oregon, Ohio State.
I mean, they good teams, but teams that you ought
to be able to move the ball at least a
little bit against They didn't. What happened to that offense
in the second half of the season is really one
of the more puzzling things I've ever seen being a

(01:28:46):
college football fan.

Speaker 8 (01:28:46):
Yeah, and if you look at the season as a whole,
terrible special teams play all year, inconsistencies offensively, inconsistencies defensively
for much of the season. Right, and now, my biggest
fear is this new world of college football where you
have to raise money and you have to sell to

(01:29:09):
your fan base to raise that money. Why you need
the money and why the current system and administration that's
in place is working. And when that's not the case,
how do you sell right now the program?

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
Oh and you've also got to sell tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
I don't know. I mean, folks get mad at me
when I say this. Scott Saderfield's higher was met with
a shoulder shrug at best, Right, there were already a
lot of if not the majority of UC fans who
went Scott got hired, were like.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Really, that's it him?

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
And you know, I hope everybody has given him an opportunity.
But even for those who have I feel like he's
wasted it.

Speaker 8 (01:29:55):
We said before the season, bowl game is minimum, right,
they didn't go to one, and they were five and two, right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
And so how do you it's I think they're gonna
have a really hard time convincing people that this is
going to end the way we won, which is you
see consistently with this staff competing for Big twelve championship,
you're losing key pieces, Sterling Sterling, Burk culture is already.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
End of the portal.

Speaker 10 (01:30:19):
I mean you lose Corey Kiner.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
Corey Kiner is leaving, lou cant Is leaving in graduation,
Dante Corleon noncimmittal last week.

Speaker 8 (01:30:27):
I've also never seen a team that doesn't respond adversity. Yeah,
they they they are. They were shell shocked all season
when one thing went against him. It's football, right, multiple
things will go against you. You move on to the
next play.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
So I was for me, you talk about being a
UC fan, I was Saturday night. I was surprised at
how down I was that and not that if they
won the game at six and six, I'd go out
party all night.

Speaker 8 (01:30:55):
So I was like, it have almost been a relief
for me if they got the six and seven. It's like,
all right, they at least got that right now we
can build off that. Yeah, you wind the season on
a win instead of five straight losses.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
And and you know you said before three years ago,
we're talking about the Bengals and Bearcats unreal, you know,
competing for championship in Dallas. I walked out an Impert Stadium.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
On Saturday night thinking like Boses three years ago. Yeah,
like this was this was the coolest team in the country.

Speaker 8 (01:31:21):
I said it on the air. It was twenty to seven.
Yeah for much of the second half. Yeah, and in
the in the stadium and on the field, it felt
like sixty to seven. So I was just bizarre. And look,
I get that it was an ideal. It wasn't the
most adverse weather conditions that have ever been played in.

Speaker 10 (01:31:42):
It wasn't like football game.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Wasn't last night in Buffalo.

Speaker 10 (01:31:45):
No, it wasn't swirling winds and downpouring rain. It was
it was a snow. It snowed consistently for three quarters
uh huh. And there was barely a dusting on the field.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
Tony, They're a Northern team, They're gonna have to play and.

Speaker 8 (01:32:00):
We're talking about being able to make an extra point
or an attempt an extra point because you have to
clear out a little snow.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
On the second go around. They should have gone for two.

Speaker 3 (01:32:10):
But so I go home, and then I started watching
Chad Brendle and Keegan nickoson because I just like I,
I had the Bearcats on my mind, and so I
was watching their therapy session and somebody asked, what would
I ask? The question that I had, which was, all right,
next year, what's success next year? I think we all understand,

(01:32:31):
whether you like it or not, Scott Sadderfield is coming
back because they're they're just they have to pay one
hundred percent of what he's due and they're not going
to do that now to pay him to go away. No, no, no,
the goalpost isn't going to move. And this was Chad's response,
Like we went into this year going, okay, go to
six and six and then we go and then we
take off. I still feel like that's the same kind

(01:32:54):
of plan, the same timeline we're talking about here, where okay,
you didn't go six and six, but in twenty five
we were talking about how you have to start winning
a number of games that makes people feel good about
your season, which is nine, which is ten in a
in a in an era of an expanded playoff, you've
got to you've got to contend for a spot in

(01:33:14):
the Big Twelve championship game.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
You've got to be ranked.

Speaker 3 (01:33:17):
I still feel like they're gonna be held to that, Tony,
I'm not sure they can attain that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
I don't I don't feel good about how this is going.

Speaker 8 (01:33:26):
Well, they're gonna play Nebraska to start the year. Uh huh,
bowling green game, bowling Green, Northwestern State. They're gonna have
to find four wins. Let's call it what it is
between Arizona BYU, Baylor, Iowa State, UCF, Kansas, Oklahoma State, TCU,
and Utah.

Speaker 10 (01:33:45):
Like this was. This was why this year was important.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Next year, six and six will not be anoun.

Speaker 8 (01:33:50):
Correct, that's why this year is important. Get to six
and then say, okay, look from there. We grew to
a bowl game, and now we're gonna compete in the
Big twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
Year three, you go six and six? What are we doing?

Speaker 10 (01:34:04):
Correct?

Speaker 8 (01:34:06):
I've seen and I've been a part of and been
a fan of the program when six win.

Speaker 10 (01:34:13):
Was the threshold.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Yeah, it was the threshold this year.

Speaker 10 (01:34:16):
Yeah, I mean this was okay.

Speaker 8 (01:34:17):
Not It's not anymore like oh, sneaking into a Bowl game. Okay,
I would have sold that this year. Can't sell it
next year. If the goal is to win championships and
compete in the Big twelve. I don't know what the
path forward is right now. Yeah, and gosh, we need basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
We're gonna get it tomorrow, you see goes to go.

Speaker 10 (01:34:40):
We just need them to be good.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
I think they can so far, so good, and that'll help.

Speaker 3 (01:34:45):
But man, it was when when the conversation flips to
twenty five, I just I think it's gonna be really
hard for this staff to energize the fan base. I
also feel like, and this is something chatting Keigan talked
about because I want to give credit words due, but
it's something that I have thought and brought up to you.

(01:35:06):
I think they need a passing game coordinator. Yeah, Scott
Saderfield wants to run the ball, and they have a
good running offense. The design of the passing game left
and this is being gentle a lot to be desired.

Speaker 8 (01:35:20):
Yeah, you mentioned Keegan and Chad Keegan screenshotted. Yeah, at
one point of play in that fourth quarter, and there
were five receivers within fifteen yards of each other.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
Now we gotta get a break, and I want to
spend the Ryan Day dynamic, to me is maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
The most fascinating in all the sports.

Speaker 3 (01:35:40):
And I don't think he's the problem. I want to
spend time on that. But I need you to think
about this during the break. UC will play a home
game next year against Nebraska. Now it is being reported
the game is going to be moved to Arrowhead Stadium
as of now. You know for months it's been planned
for Indianapolis. Who's allowed to plan a flag?

Speaker 10 (01:36:02):
It's a good question because it's a UC home.

Speaker 3 (01:36:04):
Game, but it's not going to be UC's field. So
if the Bearcats win, can they plan a flag? There
aren't many like in some of these bowl games coming
up or college football playoff games. Can both schools bring
flags to plan that they win?

Speaker 10 (01:36:17):
Borrowhead right at Burrowhead?

Speaker 8 (01:36:20):
Well, according to the mayor that Cincinnati already owns it,
so we can't play one.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Can he? Thankfully he has kept his mouth shut about sports.

Speaker 10 (01:36:28):
Not very much. He've been talking about has.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
He fixed the potholes? I care about two things. You're
the mayor of Cincinnati. Fix the potholes. So I think
it's done a good job of andh lower the parking rates.
Downtown hasn't been so good at that.

Speaker 8 (01:36:40):
Think about which road game next year you would most
like to plan a flag?

Speaker 10 (01:36:45):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
Read them to me again.

Speaker 8 (01:36:47):
Well, outside of the Nebraska game, they're only half four
road games Okay, Kansas, Oklahoma State, TCU, Utah. Where you
want that bearcat flag flying high? Can you plan a
flag at your own state?

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
I just want to put a game in their own stadium.

Speaker 8 (01:37:02):
All right, let's get yes, yes, bowling green Northwestern state flag, flag.

Speaker 3 (01:37:06):
Flag flag, Yes. I just want them to win games, yep.
And then if they do that, they can do whatever
they want.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
But we have to talk about flag planting. We do
have a pole question about flag planting. Any you're input
on that as well. Tony and Mo Football Show twin
Peaks in Florence, ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
You've been listening to football in thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:37:33):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.
You see Help's weight.

Speaker 10 (01:37:40):
Luck ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:37:45):
From six Tony and Mo Football Show, ESPN fifteen Dirty
Molagger with Tony Pike, Twin Peaks and Florence. We are
back here a week from tomorrow. Bengals play on Monday
Night Football Tuesday.

Speaker 8 (01:37:55):
So all those folks that can't make it because it's
a Monday, Yeah, can be here.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
Coworkers, yepeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:01):
Yeah, Bengals are pretty heavy favorites against the Cowboys.

Speaker 10 (01:38:06):
What is happening with that line? That was staggering in itself.

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
Joe Burrow versus Cooper Rush, Cooper Rush versus the Bengals defense. Uh,
your synopsis of the game between Ohio State and Michigan.

Speaker 10 (01:38:24):
I thought Michigan was the tougher team.

Speaker 8 (01:38:26):
Now, I don't think their quarterback starts on another team
in college football.

Speaker 10 (01:38:30):
No, that was awful.

Speaker 8 (01:38:32):
Yes, that's what that is, quite frankly, the worst offense
I've ever watched at the college level.

Speaker 10 (01:38:37):
And they won.

Speaker 8 (01:38:39):
And they won with a quarterback who threw for sixty
plus yards and two interceptions, I thought, and Austin alluded
to this, and I think he was spot on. I
think mentally, Ryan Days in his own head, he was
in his head with the whole. Lou Holtz comments when
they played Notre Dame, and he has gone out of
his way to make like, you know, he made the

(01:38:59):
common early weak. Losing to Michigan is the worst thing
he's gone is like the death of his father and
losing to Michigan. And he has this mentality of you
have to be the tougher team, when in reality he
had the more skilled team, probably five to one. I
don't know why they tried to run the ball thirty times,
agreed Wink Martindale. On the first series of the game,

(01:39:23):
Ohio State goes all the way down the.

Speaker 10 (01:39:24):
Field, they settle for a field goal.

Speaker 8 (01:39:26):
They're playing ten yards off coverage, and Wink Martindale pumps
his fist and right then I said, there's your game plan.
They know they can't They know they can't guard these receivers.
So play coverage, shrink the field, try to hold them
to three. That was the only thing they can do.
And thirty times they tried to run the ball against
the front. When you have multiple guys that are injured, yeah,

(01:39:50):
and you've got first round draft picks on the outside.
I think they're in their own head. I had thrown
the ball fifty times.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
I thought, I said this to you and Ken yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
I thought, having watched all four of the those games
that Ryan Day has lost to Michigan, I thought the
one on Saturday was the first time that I really
faulted his coaching a.

Speaker 10 (01:40:06):
Three touchdown favorite at home against this six and five team.

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
Like I watched his interview where he talked he equated
it to the death of his father, and I'm like,
this is a man who is too concerned with saying
what he thinks people want to hear.

Speaker 10 (01:40:20):
Look it mentally consumed him.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
Everybody knows that game is huge.

Speaker 3 (01:40:24):
Everybody knows to a large degree, that's what defines you
as the head coach at Ohio State. Like we get it,
Like you don't. You don't have to go overboard and
let us know you know how important the game is.
I look, man, Instantly after the game, everybody's writing Ryan
Days yulo G wondering does he have to win a
national championship to save his job. I'm gonna be honest

(01:40:46):
with you, I think that's ludicrous. I think that's ridiculous.
I think it is the suggestion that he has to
win the entire thing Hoist Trophy at the end of
the year. By the way, they're right now the third
shortest odds to win the whole thing. So it's not
beyond the realm of possibility. They do, and you will
still have people who say it's not good enough. I

(01:41:07):
think that is beyond asinine. I don't think the problem
is Ryan Day. I think the problem is the culture
that has been created where instead of running a program,
he's paid to win one game. Now, is it desirable
to have your program beat your art travel more than
once every five years?

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Absolutely, I totally.

Speaker 10 (01:41:26):
Get with this. The last couple of years with Ucson.

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
You and I are u See basketball fans who love
uc basketball more than any I wish the program has
would have been better over the last twenty seven years
against Xu Xu. I think has won twenty in the
last twenty seven. I don't think that game defines any
of the coaches. I don't think it defines Bob Huggins.
I don't think it defines Sean Miller. I think it
defines mc cronin. I think it defines Chris Mack. It's

(01:41:50):
part of what they do, it's not all of what
they do. I know college basketball and college football are different.
But to say I have seen people who I respect,
who have put their name on this, who are Buckeye
fans and observers of that program say I'd rather beat
Michigan and finish seven and five than lose to Michigan
and win the national title.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
That is stupid. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:42:13):
Sorry, So to me, the problem isn't Ryan Day. It's
you for having for putting most part, for putting that
kind of emphasis on one game.

Speaker 8 (01:42:20):
For the most part, though, it's the university. Like you
walk into the Woody Hayes Center, it's a Michigan clock. Yeah,
it's everything they do is built around Michigan. What I
think the problem is is that they have had what
many people say collectively the best roster ever assembled in football.

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
Yeah, I'm not sure that's true.

Speaker 8 (01:42:39):
Like Urban Meyer, Jim Tressel, they thought so good, really good.
I've watched them a couple times this year, and every
time I've been left wanting more. Sure, Nebraska, they could
have very well lost that game Oregon. They didn't look great.
I thought they had the better players.

Speaker 3 (01:42:55):
He's beaten two top five teams this year, two teams
that are decent bets to make college football. I'm not
here to tell you that I'm the world's biggest Ryan
Day fan. I frankly have no emotional tie. But I
see these folks who want to ignore sixty.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
Six and ten.

Speaker 10 (01:43:11):
Man, I just see a guy with this game that's in.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
His own head, no doubt about it, and that he looked.

Speaker 10 (01:43:15):
Like it on the side of it. He looked like
it after the game.

Speaker 3 (01:43:17):
And that has to I guess what I want to
know is this, Like, let's say he wins the next
five games against Michigan, then how much leeway does he
get with the other stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
Is he allowed to not win the Big ten?

Speaker 10 (01:43:26):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Is he allowed to not make the college football Playoff?

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
Like, if you're gonna do this, if you're gonna, say,
losing the Michigan obscures all the other stuff. What if
he starts winning that game on a regular basis, how
much the least does he get against everybody.

Speaker 8 (01:43:40):
Else's also a game that a lot of Ohio State
fans last year said that that was the one that
mattered because now the twelve team playoff, this game is
not gonna mean as much. Is the same people now
that are like, you gotta fire him, So to me,
you gotta get rid of him, like I think it's
more about that. I think it's more about Michigan won
at all last year, all this controversy, and then they
came in with essentially a JV roster and punk you

(01:44:00):
in your own building.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
And I understand the frustration over that one thousand. If
I was an Ohio State fan, I.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Would be livid.

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
But this larger conversation about well, he's gonna lose his
job even if he takes his team to the brink
of a national title because he can't win this one game.
I think, in the era of the twelve team playoffs specifically,
that is stupid. It's one thing if you lose that game,
and it keeps you from competing for a national title.
And let's face it, no one cares about conference championships,
so no, they don't get a chance to play for

(01:44:27):
the Big Ten title. Who cares? Those have never mattered less.
But if it's not gonna keep you from the playoff
and you can still win a championship and Ohio State
still can, then I think there should be less emotional
emphasis on the rivalry game. And I know Buckeye fans
are gonna lose their mind and me for saying that,
and I'll be told I don't understand. I understand you

(01:44:47):
play too much emphasis on this one game.

Speaker 10 (01:44:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:44:50):
Like, if if you see basketball, were to lose to
Xavier this year and win a national title at the
end of the year in that parade, uh huh freaking
team lost his Xavier, I can't enjoy this name.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
Well no number one in the country, number two in
the city.

Speaker 8 (01:45:07):
But you would take that championship parade right past the
Centa Center. Yeah, yeah, you got us in December. We
won the whole thing like that. That comment to me
is nuts. I would rather beat Michigan than win a
national title.

Speaker 2 (01:45:23):
Well, if you feel that way, that's as.

Speaker 10 (01:45:25):
A Bengal fan. Do you say you'd rather beat Pittsburgh
than win a Super Bowl?

Speaker 2 (01:45:28):
I just I'd like to force a couple of punts.

Speaker 3 (01:45:33):
In an ideal world, you you beat your rival, you
win the national title. But to say to the coach again,
like you could, you could, you could come to the.

Speaker 2 (01:45:41):
Brink winning a national title.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
And sorry, Ryan, dad, it's not good enough because your
team had one bad Saturday.

Speaker 8 (01:45:49):
Saying saying that they would rather them lose the first
round of the playoff to fire him.

Speaker 3 (01:45:53):
Right, I don't understand it. I do not, for the
life of me, understand it. Now, how do you feel
about flag plans? I love it, so I like it too.

Speaker 8 (01:46:01):
I'll plan a flag, and I know that if you
plant the flag, you should have and understand the repercussions
for planning the flag.

Speaker 3 (01:46:08):
So that's the thing. So the Michigan guy comes out
with the flag, what did he think was gonna happen?

Speaker 10 (01:46:13):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:46:13):
The Ohio State Ohio.

Speaker 3 (01:46:15):
State players were just gonna NodD along and go okay, man, like,
if you do it. So this is probably and I
hate to say this because I hate banning stuff, this
is probably why it has to be banned, because it's
something you do to provoke the other team.

Speaker 10 (01:46:30):
Yeah, and in the way it ended with pepper spray
and things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:33):
And Ryan Day's standing there.

Speaker 3 (01:46:34):
Now, if you want to talk about a bad look
for Ryan Day, that was it, standing there looking bewildered.

Speaker 8 (01:46:38):
Like Sawyer's losing his mind. He's like, right, what are
we doing it? Like, dude, you're the leader of the team.

Speaker 3 (01:46:43):
I mean, if you want to criticize him for something,
criticize him for that.

Speaker 8 (01:46:46):
But the I thought it was I thought Michigan was
poor in their flag planting preparation. It wasn't well from
UC this year. Let my leave the field, play at
the flag. Baker Mayfield came back on planted the flag.
Once they're own, they're singing their alma mater. They just

(01:47:07):
got punked. What do you think is gonna have in
their own building?

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
Right?

Speaker 10 (01:47:11):
That's going to happen now if you're good with that, Okay,
But I for years, what if we talked about in
sports when there's hate, the game is better when there's
a legitimate dislike. That's why the shootout is what it is.

Speaker 8 (01:47:25):
That's why the game up there is what it is
because after the game, they're not dapping up.

Speaker 10 (01:47:30):
They're swapping with each other. They hate each other. That's
what makes us watch.

Speaker 8 (01:47:34):
And guess what, That's what they're gonna use when they
promote the game in the next couple of years. Hell,
they're gonna promote those fights like they did in the shootout,
like they did with the Steelers and the Bengals.

Speaker 10 (01:47:44):
That stuff sells. I like that animosity.

Speaker 3 (01:47:47):
So I saw Jumbo Elliott, who played at Michigan, was
mad at Jack Sawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
Like Jack Sawyer did nothing wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:47:53):
I would expect a player on that team who had
just gotten beef and saw the other dude try to
plant the flag, I would expect them to do the
same thing. So you want to plant the flag like
I don't from it, I don't. I think sportsmanship is
frankly overrated.

Speaker 8 (01:48:06):
The banned pooped on a Michigan flight two weeks ago part.

Speaker 3 (01:48:11):
Of the So fine, plant the flag, but that is
an act that is meant to provoke.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
You then can't get mad when.

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
The provoked side does something about it, which means you
probably have to ban it.

Speaker 10 (01:48:23):
Man ban in all sports. I don't know. I'd like
to plan a flag in December against arrival.

Speaker 2 (01:48:31):
It's hard to plan a flag on hard one.

Speaker 10 (01:48:33):
No, you can get one of those flag holders.

Speaker 8 (01:48:35):
Good, someone who runs out with the base and plops
it down and then the flag comes out.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
The game's at you see this year.

Speaker 10 (01:48:42):
It doesn't matter. Okay, fly the flag at hal right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:47):
By the way.

Speaker 3 (01:48:48):
Congratulations to the team carrying the flag for the state
of Ohio next week.

Speaker 2 (01:48:52):
Yeah, the Miami RedHawks.

Speaker 8 (01:48:54):
Yeah, Chuck Martin's on senty three to sixty at one
o'clock tomorrow.

Speaker 10 (01:48:57):
Really yeah, fantastic head coach of the RedHawks.

Speaker 3 (01:49:00):
Chuck Martin has done a really good job with that program.
When he took over, they had come off a winless season.
He's got him in the MAC Championship Game.

Speaker 10 (01:49:08):
They got residency in Detroit.

Speaker 3 (01:49:09):
They've got residency in Detroit. I hope they planted the
flag after beating the Bobcats.

Speaker 2 (01:49:13):
We have to go.

Speaker 3 (01:49:13):
Thanks to Mike Mills and Tarren Bland. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.

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