The Tony and Mo Football Show -- 12/30/24

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
For the Cincinnati Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty. This is the
Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from the Twin Peaks,
brought to you in part by Encore Technologies. Visit Encore
Dot Tech and Station East Coast subs Penn Station. It's
all in good taste Honda East, Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience,

(00:21):
First State Bank built on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio.
Just off I seventy one X and fifty inside the
Holiday and at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri
State Chevy Dealers. Chevrolet, the number one selling brand in
Cincinnati for the past eight years. Chevrolet Together, Let's drive
on the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
A victory Monday edition of The Tony and Mo Football
Show on ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon on Moegar with
Tony Pike. We are broadcasting from Twin Peaks in Florence
the Monday after a Bengals victory over the Denver Broncos.
We'll be back at the Westchester location next week. Today,
our last scheduled keyword is scheduled appearance here in Florence.

(01:10):
We're here till six o'clock tonight. You know how much
we love Twin Peaks. Very easy to get to. Moments
off I seventy five, Get off with the Turfway Road exit.
You'll be here in ninety seconds. Plenty of ice, cold beer,
great food. If you're looking for a place to watch
the UC bear cast tonight, Cincinnati opens up Big twelve Play.
If you're looking for a place to watch Monday Night Football,

(01:32):
a largely meaningless game, but a rematch of the NFC
title tilt last year between San Francisco and Detroit. If
you're just looking for a place to have dinner, If
you want to watch Kentucky tomorrow afternoon, we're here in Florence,
Twin Peaks.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
You will love this place.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
They are always awesome to us, and we are thrilled
to be here as always on ESPN fifteen thirty. Again
here till six o'clock. Only a few things to discuss,
just a.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
Couple, you know, I'm just excited because it felt like
for the first time we won a game we weren't
supposed to win.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Uh huh.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
You know, all year those losses or those games have
won against the Bengals because every game they've won have
been against a bad football team, and it felt like
it was switched. It felt like a game in which
the Bengals tried to allow the Denver Broncos to win
a game, and they finally backed their way into one.
I wouldn't say back to win one. I'd say Joe
Burrow said, screw the run game, screw the kick game. Yeah,

(02:26):
I'm gonna take care of it.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Joe Burrow and T Higgins overcame the crap around them,
I think is the best way to put it.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Say what you want about how they got there.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
But here we are going into the last week of
the season and the Bengals are alive. Statistically, their chances
obviously aren't great, but it remains possibility. This team is
playing in the postseason. And for my money, and we'll
talk about the nuts and bolts of Saturday, and there
were plenty of them. If if they could pull this off,
and we know what that requires. You gotta win on

(02:54):
Saturday night in Pittsburgh against the Steelers. You need help
from the Kansas City Chiefs, who are not gonna play
their starters. I hope for the New York Jets, who
are terrible and checked out. But if they pull this off,
say what you want about the season to date, I
think it would represent one of the great comebacks in
Cincinnati sports history. And the fun thing is, Tony, if
they got in, it's not like we would discount their chances.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, it would represent one of the biggest turnarounds in
Cincinnati sports and it would probably add into the MVP
candidacy of Joe Burrow, which I can't wait to talk
about today. I know dan Orlofsky has talked about it.
I know a lot of other national folks have talked
about it. I don't know how he's not an MVP,
and I understand that the records mean a lot. But
if you talk about the award and I tweeted it,

(03:38):
and I had no idea that I have so many
Baltimore and Kansas City followers. I think he's the best
player on the planet right now in football.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
I think he's the best quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
I do too. I don't think it's close. You know,
I know what Mahomes has done. I know they've lost
one game, They've scored thirty points twice. They got a
really good defense. I know what Josh Allen is doing.
I know what Lamar is doing from a quarterback standpoint,
what he does with less around him, what he does
with an offensive line that's now giving up the fifth
most saxon football. I know we'll dive more into it.

(04:11):
But what he has done for this organization, it can't
be overlooked and it can't be understated just how good
he has been. And yes, I know they need help,
and I know we'll talk about and navigate the ways
in which they need that help. But I watched that
game in the lens of Saturday night, that I'm watching

(04:34):
the best quarterback in the game of football.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, I'm not sure that's gonna make him MVP. Don't
think it's gonna make him MVP, not even entirely sure
he would get my vote. But MVP isn't best quarterback
in the league. Joe Burrow, for my money, is the
best quarterback in the National Football League. The two stories
from Saturday Number one Zach Taylor getting bailed out, with
which man we will certainly dive into the ins and

(04:57):
outs of some of his decision making on Saturday, which
I'll be generous here and a little bit less so
later on questionable at best, But the central figure on
Saturday night for me at least Tony was T Higgins.
If that was his last game, and that is a big,
big if. What a way to go out, not just

(05:18):
playing in his final home game possibly, but redemption from
the fumble. You get that story. You also get a
statement about his importance. Right, We've talked about well, basically
T's gonna be expendable in a game where Jamar Chase
was quiet ish, certainly relative to how he played all
season long. When the Bengals needed plays, they went to

(05:40):
number five. Now, that might not be any sort of
intentional statement from the Bengals and from Joe Burrow and
from T Higgins about his importance, but unintentionally it definitely was.
When it came to winning time, the guy making the
plays was the guy who possibly was playing his final
home game.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
I mean, we'll get into why. Let's just in a
nutshell inside five yard line in overtime when you just
needed a field goal, the team chose not to kick,
not to run. They went to T Higgins in the
biggest moment of the season. Look, it was a microcosm
of why Joe Burrow came out in my opinion and
said he's in need and I would be disappointed if

(06:16):
he's not back. Why because that was a team with
a really good corner Number one pat certain it was
also a team that could roll coverage. Those are the
games in which you say, that's why you need T Higgins.
And he delivered in the biggest way. In a game
where Jamar Chase uncharacteristically drew drops one of his easiest
touchdowns of the year, t is there for three touchdowns

(06:37):
for eleven catches, and in a game where Jamar still
won over one hundred Gaseki had ten catches, Yoshivash had
a good game. You still see how much you need
T Higgins? That how if you're the Bengals organization. And
that was the question I asked today, Was it the
final game he's in Cincinnati? How not only of what

(06:57):
he did on the field, but the quarterback who we
are talking about is the best player on the planet
right now, said I need him. Yeah, I'm gonna be
disappointed if he's not here. And oh, by the way,
I'm gonna be disappointed because of what he just did
in the final home game in Cincinnati of this season.
Mo I don't know how you don't bring him back
at this point. I know it's I know we're talking

(07:17):
about Jamar Chase might be forty million, and T Higgins
doing that in the final home game certainly drives that
Plight price up. But think about the fan base, Mo,
think about Joe Burrow. You would be going against your
fan base and the franchise quarterback if you didn't bring
him back. Good luck.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, I put this on social media right after the game.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
I don't know that I can name for you right now.
Three more beloved Bengals in my lifetime yep than T Higgins.
And I think among the reasons why are among the
reasons why you've got to keep him, and some of.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Those reasons you can't put a dollar amount on it.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I know I've talked about this before, but like, let's
just look at his career arc. So he comes to
the Bengals in twenty twenty, Joe Burrow is a rookie
tea has a good rookie season.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
AJ Green's on his way out.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
I'm sure there's a part of T Higgins who's thinking, like, dude,
I'm about to blow up. I am gonna lead the
league in all these categories, what do they do They
draft Jamar Chase, What does t Higgins do? Willingly settles
into a number one A or one B, number two role,
never makes a peep. He made a trade request, but

(08:30):
he didn't make it a spectacle. He didn't go in
a bunch of podcasts. He didn't riff off on social
media and.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
You could see why.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, he did it quietly.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
He did it. I didn't blame him, but he didn't
turn it into a thing. We spend all off season thinking, God,
there's no way he's gonna sign his tag until the
last minute. He signed it in June. He showed up
the training camp on time. He worked his butt off.
Say what you want about Jamar. We love Jamar. While
Jamar wasn't practicing tea was he plays in the pre season.

(09:00):
He plays through injury. He willed himself onto the field
last week against Kansas City. He wasn't one hundred percent.
In this game against the Denver Broncos, he plays hurt.
I've watched him and the Bengals do this dance in
relation to his contract for two years. I've never watched
team thought, this guy's not giving it his all. This
guy is putting himself in front of the team. Even

(09:22):
asked about playing into the franchise tag, his answer was, dude,
I'm making twenty two million dollars. I'm good. That's the
kind of guy you won on your team. It's the
kind of player we know, the player that he is.
That's the kind of person you won on your team.
And I think everybody understands that, and that's why he
is so revered here.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
I don't think people realize that. I know that Saturday helped.
He's fifth in the NFL in touchdown catches.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Ten career high.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yes, yeah, and he's played in eleven games. Right, is
what is his season? If he plays in every game,
is he threatening Jamar Chase for the Touchdown League, which
would threaten him our Chase's triple crown. That's how good
he's been and what I take. I also look at
how teammates react around him. Everyone gravitates towards him because

(10:09):
of what you said. He plays hurt and in the
team's biggest times and games. It's when he is historically
shown up. He's not stat padding against the bottom featers
when the team needs it and when they're playing the
good teams who say no, Number one is not gonna
beat us five will like that. To me is we

(10:30):
could talk about well, stat padding and this and that.
The best teams in the NFL, when they try to
take Jamar Chase away, they don't have an answer for
t Higgins and Joe Burrow understands that more than anyone,
which is why Joe Burrow came out and said, no,
I need him and if we don't, I'm gonna be
really disappointed.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
And so to me, you could look at what he
does statistically and you could put a dollar amount on that,
and whatever that is. I don't know, you know, Adida
Kacabala of NFL Network put on social media that she's
understanding team might be willing to take less. I don't know,
but there are some things he brings to the table
that I think you cannot put a dollar amount on.
It is playing through pain. It is understanding the business

(11:10):
of it and not letting that get in the way
of your preparation and your performance. It's understanding your role.
It's coming up big at absolutely the right spots. Like
that's the kind of person forget the player, which is
hard to do. That's the kind of person you want
on your team moving forward. And I think to a degree,
that's kind of been the subtext of what Joe has

(11:31):
been trying to say about T Higgins.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
And I think to your point, the offseason conversation was, Man,
they're gonna go through a training camp and not have
T Higgins. Imagine if they didn't imagine And we talked
about Burrows year in the sense that Jamar didn't do preseason.
What if T Higgins said to I'm good, I'll sit
out instead shows up every day, practices every day, willing
to do whatever it takes for the team. We didn't

(11:55):
see that from everybody, and we don't see that from everyone.
And I'm not saying but that is above and beyond
on what he even needed to do. Yeah, I'm gonna
get tagged. You know, I'll play for the money. I
know this year is important for me, but I'm not
gonna push it during training camp and he did.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
He was there, Yeah, and like sign the tag And
when asked about it's like, dude, I'm gonna make twenty
two mil. I'm good, man good, I'm fine. My day
will come. I'll get a long term deal somewhere. Maybe
it's here, like, I think that's part of why he's
so beloved here, and I think that's part of why
his teammates seem to gravitate so much to him.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
We, unfortunately, though, just keep having these conversations us. Well,
if they were going to, they should have locked him
up a couple of years ago. Sure, Jamar Chase. How
many people are gonna say, now, man, they should have
locked hm up at the start of this year. Who
else will be on that? Like, what's coming next down
that list? Chase Brown was a fifth round running back,
fIF turn pick done. I mean, what you got two
years left on his deales? Do you start to look
and say, Okay, can we lock him up for the future?

(12:52):
Because what you don't want anymore is the same conversation
we're having about t Higgins.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Man, I wish they would have got it done earlier.
I wish they'd got Jamar Chase done earlier. I wish
that had got Chase Brown done earlier before he blew
up and becomes this running back one in the National
Football League, Like, those are the decisions that this organization
has to make, and they have failed quite frankly in
those decisions in recent years. Going back to the Jesse
Bates fiasco and everything that that accompanied that, and well,

(13:18):
you can't pay Jesse Bates and then pay T Higgins.
And for much of this season, Tea was gone until
Joe Burrow said all right, let me, let me do something.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
When it came time for someone to save the season.
Joe Burrow and T Higgins saved the season. There's something
worth remembering about that as we talk about Tea's future
in Cincinnati.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
And I know Zach's done it, and I know it's
a it's a show of good faith. The last couple
of games, when T and Jamar and Joe walk out
there together, I see it like that. That to me,
I'm watching it, yep, And I'm I granted, I have
not went into a game in a while. I went
into the game on Saturday the ovation simply for them

(14:00):
walking out for the coin toss. Yeah, you can tell.
And captains are usually picked by the team and the coaches,
and I think it's more than just a good one.
I think it's those are the leaders. Those are the
guys that you are rallying behind if you want any chance,
And those are the guys that they have now hitched
themselves too. I say, okay, if we're going to go
on a run, it's because of those three guys.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, I think it's at the core of what they are.
Are those three. Now they have to get better elsewhere,
and there are very good and legitimate conversations about how
they do that, both with or without tea.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
But at their core, that's what this team is.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
And by the way, there's also something about good luck
charms because they're four and oh with those three as captains.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
But they got to go play a fifth road primetime game.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah, you know what, I can't.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
I'm good.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
I'm sorry. I no one's ever done that. I do
not care when the game is. I love it.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I love the idea of win Saturday and you advance
to Sunday. Put the pressure on that and we get
to watch. Yeah, put the pressure on that exactly.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
Now Denver watches Saturday Night and Miami watching Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, and you're not. Look, it's human nature. We as
fans do it. If those if those games are being play,
the players are what's what's what's Kansas City doing? Now
it's out of your's not that it's in your control.
It's gonna happen tomorrow. Do what you gotta do tonight
and make the Broncos go uh.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, make them feel a little bit
of that heat exactly. You did tweet it out though
it does set up a scenario. You see Arizona in
the afternoon, Bengals Steelers at night. What we'd love for
to be just a marquee day in Cincinnati sports. I
don't want it to be one of those days where
we've said, this is Cincinnati Sports. Monday of sports.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Does the Bearcats beat Arizona and the Bengals beat the
Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
By the way, I I know that Denver just has
to win. Really not that concerned with what the Bengals
are doing.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like the idea of win Saturday and you essentially advance
to the next day and make it matter and then
see what those teams do.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, And I love this And to dispel one thing
because I know it's out there and everyone's oh, I
can't believe Kansas City is sitting there. Guys, you just
hit it on it with chat and quick hits Andy Reid.
It's not like Andy Reid's rolling over. They play really
well in these types of games, and for those that
are saying that the Chiefs are just doing this because
they're scared of the Bengals. Rightfully, they might be, but

(16:34):
it's not the Bengals and the Chiefs that would be playing.
It would be the Bills in that situation, And if
you're the Chiefs, you would want it to be the
Bills and Bengals. Yeah, well, these two battle it out
because the Bills are the only team that's beaten the
Chiefs this year. So I get the sentiment of Chiefs
are scared. Anyone at this point would not want to
play the Bengals. But if you're the Chiefs, it's not like,

(16:57):
oh well, we're gonna make it easy and let Buffalo
down a Denver and then move on and welcome in
the only team that's beat us. I think people read
too much into that. I wouldn't be scared of anyone
if I'm the Bengals because of number nine.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, look, I give him a puncher's chance against everybody.
And we'll talk about the Chief's dynamic here.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Number one.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Andy Reid's responsibility is to the Kansas City Chiefs.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, his team, and he knows his team, because the
alternate is it's twenty plus days.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
You can get mad at me for saying this. That
is a very well run organization. Even in a year
where they're not great, they're fifteen to one. They know
what they're doing. Andy Reid's responsibility isn't to the Bengals, yeh,
or the Bills or anybody. His responsibility is to his team.
So his responsibility is to coach the final game in

(17:50):
a manner that he best sees fit for what his
team is trying to accomplish. Number two, don't put yourself
at the mercy of another team next year.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
How about that?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
How about let's go in the week eighteen, maybe with
something sewn up. The Bengals get whatever they have coming
to him as it relates to the Chiefs, and frankly
the New York Jets as well. And finally, look, man,
the Bengals have played the Chiefs really tough. They've won
a playoff game in Arrowhead. We understand it. Do you
think the Kansas City Chiefs, who have been in four

(18:19):
of the last five Super Bowls are really afraid of anybody?

Speaker 4 (18:23):
No, thank you, but they would a team that already
beat him this year if you had that, like Buffalo
played him well it's the playoffs. Also, they're not also
playing JV guys. They're playing guys. I don't think they're
sitting all their starters, not all of them, right, Like
I mean, Hollywood Brown just coming back probably needs to
get some reps. But Jecko just coming back, Prony gets
Carson Wentz is trying to land another job in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
So there's a difference between not playing your starters and
laying down.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah, Brown's laid down yesterday, the Browns laid down.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
I don't think the Chiefs are gonna lay down. I
think the players who play well. Now, look, if Denver
jumps out to a twenty to zip Leie, I could
certainly understand Andy Reid going all right, see, let's just
get this over with. But I believe the players who
play in the game, and there is a track record
of this, the players who play in the game will

(19:12):
play hard. Is it gonna be good enough?

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Right, Mike?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
If you ask me to guess one way or the other,
I'm gonna say no.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
But I'm gonna spend zero time complaining about the Kansas
City Chiefs because you put yourself at the mercy of
a team that has it right to handle week eighteen. However,
at once correct, it is twenty three minutes after three o'clock.
We're at Twin Peaks and Florence, Tony and Moo Football
Show on the air till six o'clock. Bengals and Steelers
Saturday Night Live on ESPN fifteen thirty. That game will

(19:40):
start at eight o'clock. The good news is we could
spend twenty minutes the first twenty minutes on Saturday Night's
game and not talk about Zach Taylor's game management. I
unfortunately don't think we can go much longer. I'll tell
you what my problem is and I'll see what you think.
Coming up in just about ten minutes on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
Sports Station, Cincinnati Station, We're.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
At Twin Peaks in Florence. It's the Tonyamo Football Show
on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Bengals win.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Because of Joe Burrow, because of t Higgins, because of
an offense that for the most part was pretty efficient,
because of mi Keasiki, because of Jamar Chase, because of
Orlando Brown playing on a busted leg, because of a
defense that did just enough for a large chunk of
the night, because of Sean Payton.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Not because of Zach Taylor.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
We'll talk about him next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. Sports headlines are a service of a Kelsey
Chevrolet Home of Lifetime powertrain protection and Karate credit approval
from their family to yours for life, Kelsey chev dot com.
Bengals players are off today. Today is their Tuesday because

(21:02):
they play on Saturday Saturday night, and so tomorrow will
be the first injury report of the week. You're not
really gonna get anything official on Chase Brown between now
and then. Nonetheless, Bengals getting set to host No to
go on the road to play the Pittsburgh Steelers. That
game will air on ESPN fifteen thirty with a kickoff
at eight o'clock. Mike Tomlin today was asked about potentially

(21:26):
resting his starters if Baltimore wins that first game on Saturday,
and his quote was, and I quote, I haven't pondered
that at all. I doubt I'll be in that mentality.
Steelers still would need to lock up the five seed
ahead of the LA Chargers. Meanwhile, Andy Reid refused to
indicate whether or not he'll plays his play his starters
when Kansas City takes on the Denver Broncos on Sunday.

(21:48):
Cincinnati needs a win on Saturday and losses by both
the Broncos and Dolphins to keep playing in advance to
the playoffs. Monday Night football tonight largely meaningless. Detroit's at
San Francisco College Basketball sixteenth rated. UC is now sixteenth
in the AP Top twenty five Poles, seventeenth in the
Coach's Bowl. Bearcats are on the road at Kansas State tonight.

(22:11):
A Big twelve opener for UC tips off at seven
on seven hundred WLW. Also, Miami takes on Defiance tonight.
And if you're looking for the Mark Pope radio show,
you can find that on Fox Sports thirteen sixty at six.
ESPN fifteen thirty will have Bengals line tonight from six
until nine. We're at Twin Peaks in Florence. Tony and

(22:31):
Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty. I'll just ask
you this, flat out into the game, end of regulation,
what is Zach Taylor doing?

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Can't figure it out? You know, he told on himself?
Did he caught himself? Told on himself? Because the conversation
became Chase Brown gets hurt and sounds like he avoided disaster.
But yeah, Chase Brown gets hurt because instead of running
into the end zone because they handed the ball off
to him, he was told to give himself up and

(23:02):
not score. Why not just take a knee because I
believe the math was around if you take the knee
three times, they're gonna get the ball back down three
with twenty to twenty five seconds left in no timeout.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
I think I think actually a little bit less than that.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, yeah, So when he when he said that the
instruction was to go down, you're telling on yourself. It's
baffling that you wouldn't just take a knee three times,
So I don't know, I don't get it. Staggering, and
then the whole well, then we had to use an
injury time out, So then it was it was more
if he took his score correct and Chase Brown wouldn't

(23:39):
be questionable going into week eighteen. Had you just taken
a knee, it is, had over time not turned out
the way it did, we would be crushing him even
more so today for that decision because the game should
have been over. I don't understand it, and no explanation
could make me understand it. Joe just won't take a knee,

(24:02):
which isn't the case. You taken me three times there.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, I my reaction was the same as yours listening
to it after the game, right, if you're gonna tell
Chase to not score, just tell Joe to take a knee.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
Because what I would have rather was, you know what,
our kicking game hasn't been great. We valued the points.
Let Chase Brown score and I trust my defense. If
that was gonna be your take, Yeah, but the fact
that you made Chase Brown give himself up, subsequently getting hurt,
and then you score the touchdown when you could have
just taken the knee three times makes zero.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Say to me, there's just more to things that could
go wrong running a play and having your guy not
score than taken a knee. Yep, right, he could fumble.
I mean, there's you can get hurt. There's lots of
different things. And you know, I've seen people blame Chase
for that. It was an athlete hurt in the middle
of a game. Sorry, dude, Like he should have rolled
off the field first of all, see where he was,

(24:56):
Like stop that.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Do not pick that on? Put that on?

Speaker 4 (24:58):
And I'm sure at the time, as many did seeing
the replay, thought it was way more serious.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Oh, without question, I mean without question.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
So Devil's advocate might say, look, go ahead and score
the touchdown, and you're putting the game on a rookie
quarterback on the road and they need it.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
You would have been okay with that.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
That's fine. But then don't tell Chase Brand to give
himself up.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Right, So, but the the other approach would have been
just run a play, score the points and play defense.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Would you have been okay with that?

Speaker 4 (25:27):
Yeah? I mean defense give up three in the first half,
the end up giving none in overtime, but they had
been bad in the fourth quarter. Yeah, but yeah, I
would still from that sense, if you're going to go score,
go score. Okay, if because because you have a new
kicker and this team has had so many special teams
problems and it comes back to bite them in overtime.
Not knowing that then, but knowing the operation just hasn't

(25:48):
been good all year, Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
So you know anecdotally it's a coach mismanaging the game.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Yeah, for a lot of it. And I will say
the problem I had with the last touchdown Denver scored.
Uh huh, it's fourth and one. Right, they played that
like if Denver got a first down, it was over right.
They are in press coverage. Yeah, one safety backet. In
my mind, if you let them get a first down
and you tackle them, they only get one more play anyway,

(26:17):
right they were. They came up and pressed and I'm
in my mind like, oh, they're gonna drop.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
They didn't play prevent.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
Just play a prevent, give up a first down and
they get one more play. Yeah, I was shut. That
was also mismake.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Dude made a great play in double Church.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
I mean, I can give him credit, but yeah, I'm
kind of on the same page there. You might say, well, anecdotally,
it's a head coach mismanaging the end of the game,
which you watch this league, it happens on a weekly basis.
If somebody could explain to me what Raheem Morris was
thinking at the end of last night's game for the
Atlanta Falcons, I'm all ears and I think he even

(26:52):
acknowledged that I kind.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Of screwed it up.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
This comes back to me, though, something that has been
a theme now for five years.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
I like a lot about Zach Taylor.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
I hate his situational football execution and thinking. And we
have talked about this for five years now, Zach and
situational football.

Speaker 4 (27:12):
That's what this is.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
It's situational football.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
And so if it's an isolated thing, if it's you
know what, I made the wrong decision in a vacuum,
I can move on from that, and maybe to a
degree I can, because they still won the football game.
But as I'm watching that unfold on Saturday night, I'm
saying out loud, situational football, Zach Taylor, here we go again.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
This has become a part of his coaching m O.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
What he does as a coach includes a lot of positives,
some of which others refuse to acknowledge. But this is
a big thing, man, especially for a team that has
a small margin for error, situational football. On Saturday night,
I'm glad they won the football game. Zach Taylor screwed
up again.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
Situational awareness. They are situational awareness in the first half. Yes,
in my opinion, this team in short yardage and crucial
situations is terrible. And what I don't understand for the
life of me, when to go for it, when to
take the points that can be discussed.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
I thought they should have tied it after they failed
the first time, because it's a playoff game. Three to three.
Defense was playing, well, tie it fine, and it worked
because they go for it. They get a three and
out and then they go down and score like you're
counting on your defense to do. What baffles me is
how many times as you questioned that with Zach Taylor?
How many times have we questioned taking the ball out

(28:33):
of Joe Burrow's hands in key situations?

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Oh? Often for years now.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
So in a playoff game third and short, fourth and short,
you take it out of his hands, and to the
point Jamar Chase, you put Jamar Chase in motion in
the I formation, and you think you're gonna give it
to him in the power you showed what you were
gonna do. I can't understand if I'm Zach Taylor and
I want my life to be easier in those situations

(29:00):
one hundred out of one hundred times, would you not
be correct in saying I'm hitching my wagon to Joe.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Burrow every time?

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Because on fourth and short, if it's in Joe's hands
and they don't get it, fine, Okay, yep, I'm going
down with Joe Burrow when it's Joe Burrow turned around
and hand the ball off. And then I'm watching Joe
Burrow's mannerisms as he walks off the field again, HM,
or Joe Burrow walking off after a miskick or a
failed fourth down. I am hitching my wagon to Zach,

(29:27):
to Joe Burrow if I'm Zach Taylor one hundred out
of one hundred times every time. And it's and much
like you just talked about the situational it's not the
first time this year or in years past we've talked
about the ball going out of Joe Burrow's hands.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, So my my biggest issue is situational football is
taking the ball away from Joe Burrow when it matters most,
whether it's late in the game, whether it's a third
or fourth and short, especially with their weaponry. It's game management,
time management. Like every coach at some point, if they're
in their their job long enough, they're gonna screw something up. Fine,

(30:00):
we keep talking about this. I remember after Zach's second
season where they go his third season where they go
to the super Bowl, and you and I were talking about, like,
you know, he's still growing into the role. The fun
thing was he has won an AFC championship, He's messed
with Joe Burrow. But Zack is still growing into the role,

(30:20):
and as he does, it's gonna be fun to see
where he.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Takes the team.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
And you and I had this conversation, where does he
have to grow the most situational football in game? Three
years later, at the end of year six, we're still
talking about the same thing.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
The fourth down that was failed. What is the weakest
part of the offensive line, the guards? And you just
run it right up the right guard right, no bells
and whistles, no creativity. I don't understand how Joe Burrow
does not get the ball in his hands when he's
proven time and time again that he's the best in
the NFL to do it. And oh, by the way,

(30:58):
if I am in third and fourth and short, spread
him out like because because what's the defense gonna do?
You spread them out, then they have to either go
one on one with Chase in Higgins. Saw how that went,
or they send coverage and then you have a numbers
game with Chase Brown up the middle, not I formation,
jamar Chase in motion to the to the running back spot.

(31:19):
And give it to your fullback. On that play, Chase
Brown with two, yes less yards of acceleration to go
right behind the right guard. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Look what he did in overtime third possession was he
could have kicked a field goal.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
He could have had.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
He said, I'm gonna have Joe Burrow throw the ball
to T Higgins if that is picked off. I'm angry
because of the result, but I'm not crushing the decision making. No.
I tried to win the game with what my team
is best at, which is Joe finding elite receivers.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
And Joe'd be the first one to say I failed.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
That's what I mean, and I could I went like
the outcome, but I can live with that, he said.
I'm I'm not putting Kate York on the field, even
though it's a shorter than a pat. I'm not giving
the ball to Khalil Herbert. I'm not gonna do some
sort of weird shovel pass. I'm gonna get T Higgins
one on one on the outside, and I'm gonna trust
that Joe's gonna get it to him.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Ball game.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
If the ball gets tipped, if there's offensive pass interference,
if Joe gets sacked and fumbles, if Joe throws a pick,
any one of those outcomes. Don't like it, Yeah, but
I get it, and I'm fine with the decision making.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Elsewhere. Yeah, you gotta be kidding me, Like in this.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
One moment he said, I'm gonna put the ball in
Joe Burrow's hands and then in others he takes it out.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
But it took missing a thirty three yarder sure, and
other things happening for that to happen.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
I mean even even on the play before the miskick,
they line up and I'm thinking to myself, Okay, there
looks like they're just gonna get things situated for work, Kate.
They turned around and handled the ball off. Yeah, and
I'm like, again, so many things can go wrong with that.
H How many times in foot well do we see
the quarterback just take the ball, shuffle over a couple steps,

(33:03):
take a knee.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Get to the hash and got to.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Okay, Kate, your likes it right Hash. They turn around,
which again penetration up the middle. Someone hits the running
back before he gets it. There's a fumbled exchange because
Khalil Herbert has not taking a ton of snaps with
Joe Burrow. They even played with fire on that and
it's maddening to watch. And again they somehow, some way
find ways to win, largely because of number nine, to

(33:26):
get themselves back into this.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Well, we've got to talk about one of Sean Payton's
decisions as well, which was obviously to not go for
two at the end of regulation. We'll spend some time
on that. We do have to address the kicking situation.
We'll do that when we come back. Twin Peaks in
Florence Tony and Mo Football Show. We are here until
six o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station seven

(33:51):
away from a four o'clock Tony and Mo Football Show.
Twin Peaks in Florence. We are here till six o'clock
back at the Westchester location next week and then.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
TVD WOW TBD.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
How about that?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
You never know, You never know. How are you gonna
feel on Saturday night?

Speaker 4 (34:07):
If it's.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Seventeen sixteen, relatively low scoring game? Yeah, four seconds to
go and Caid York comes charging out onto the field
for a potential game winning field goal.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Try Misery, Misery.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Should he be given that opportunity?

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Probably not. He did make that fifty nine yarder though, Yeah, awesome. No,
I wouldn't trust him with the season on the line.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
McPherson technically can't come off ir this week. I've not
seen or heard anything to suggest that that's gonna happen.
You can work out a kicker and bring him in.
Chances are his kind of like kid York right at this.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
Point of the year, you know, I just it's been
unbelievable how much these Special Teams unit has killed them
this year. You know, as much as we talk about
the what ifs again, we're we're talking about a game
and you could do this to you know, I would
say six of the eight losses this year outside of
Washington and Philly, really you you could make the case

(35:06):
they should have won each and every one of those.
We're in a completely different spot if Special teams had
been solid this year. We're talking about, all right, where
are they seated? Are they home? Are they going on
the road instead? You know, we're talking about can you
even trust Kate York.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
He's kicking for his third team in two years for
a reason.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
Yeah, because those girlfriends. A Dallas cowboy.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Was in town for the game, which is fun. He's
not reliable.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
He gets to watch that in person.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
He's not reliable.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
No, there's a reason he doesn't have a job or
didn't have a.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Job, and he may make all his kicks on Saturday.
But assuming he's with the team, is there going to
be anybody surprised here if one of the reasons that
they lose, if they do, is a missed kick in
a close.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Game, especially in a stadium like that, right where the
footing and the wind is always swirling, it's gonna be cold. No,
that would be just the latest in a series of
gut punches that Cincinnati Sports has and will deliver.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
H Sean Payton was complicit in his team's demise on
Saturday night, and Joe Burrow bolstered his MVP case, which
we'll discuss when we come back. It's the Tony and
Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Are you a proud since this is the Tony and
Mo Football Show Live from the Twin Peaks, run to
you in part by Encore Technologies. Visit OnCore dot Tech
and Station East Coast subs Penn Station. It's all in
good Taste Honda East, Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience. First State
Bank built on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio.

(36:50):
Just off I seventy one X and fifty inside the
Holiday and at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri
State Chevy Dealers, Chevrolet, the number one selling brand in
Cincinnati for the last eight years. Chevrolet Together. Let's drive
on the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
It's four minutes after four o'clock. ESPN fifteen thirty. Good
afternoon on a victory Monday. It's the Tony and Mo
Football Show. We're broadcasting today from Twin Peaks in Florence
on ESPN fifteen thirty. We're here till six o'clock. We're
back in Westchester next week. Forget about next week. Yes,
Live in the moment, Live in the moment. The Bengals
are alive. They are playing a meaningful game, in the

(37:32):
final game of the season. The best ticket scanner in
the history of Cincinnati Sports just walked in.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
And we have a lot of ground to cover.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
But there's a war working class that's being taught as well.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
If the brownie paper town man has a fall wardrobe.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
Yeah, I think you just were today, Yes, multiple people
with the wardrobe on today exactly. So there's everything's happening here.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
There's a lot going on here at Twin Peaks in Florence.
One of our friends, not colleagues, that's right, bought us beers.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's pretty nice of them. Friend goes on the list,
goes on the list, good friend.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
I don't know if that friend wants.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Folks to know who he is. Probably so we'll go incognito.
But we appreciate the beer. We're here till six, plenty
of ice, cold beer, good bourbon selection. Yeah, uh here
brawny over there is gonna tap into that a little
bit later on. And the food is terrific as well.
You can watch the UC game tonight here. You can
watch the Monday night football game tonight. Here, you can
watch UK play tomorrow. There's bowl games happening, college football

(38:41):
playoff later this week, one game tomorrow, three on Wednesday.
There a lot going on. He can watch it all
here at Twin Peaks, perfect spot. Would Joe Burrow get
your MVP vote?

Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yes? You know I saw this stat earlier if he
were to throw three touchdowns against the Pittsburgh Steelers, he
would be at forty five. Historically, in the history of
the NFL, one quarterback has thrown forty five touchdown passes
in a season and didn't get the MVP. It was
Drew Brees twenty eleven. He didn't get the MVP because

(39:11):
Aaron Rodgers also through forty five touchdowns and he won
the MVP. So if Joe Burrow were to get the
forty five touchdown passes and not win MVP, that would
be unprecedented in the history of the league. Joe Burrow
also is working on the Triple crown. Leads the NFL
in completions, leads the NFL in yards, leads the NFL
in touchdown passes, He's fifth in completion percentage, he's first

(39:33):
in yards per game, and oh, by the way, doin
it while being sacked forty four times. That's a fifth
most in the NFL. Show me a quarterback who does
more for his team and plays at at that of
a lead of a level with less than Joe Burrow,
and I get the weapons and all of that. Sure,
we are almost a weekly segment on this show talking

(39:56):
about his pocket movement, the subtleness to go up and back,
make up at times for a bad old line, to
make up for play calling deficiency's at times, and still
push everyone above to get this team back to relevancy.
And what I respect the most about Burrows game, if
you were to turn that game on in the fourth quarter,

(40:17):
his mental and physical toughness. You would have not guessed
he would have been sacked seven times. Correct, you would
have not guessed that he would have been hit fifteen times,
because no matter what happens on the play before he
steps in and he makes the throw that is necessary,
whether that means getting shot under the chin, whether it
means taking a bad hit, whether it means scampering for

(40:39):
nineteen yards when his team needs it the most, he
does everything it takes to just win. And again, I
look at his statistics. I look at how bad the
old line is. I look at the fact that the
defense has been awful for much of the season. Four
losses when scoring over thirty points. If this team was
the second seed in the AFC, Burrow is the walk

(41:01):
away MVP.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
And there's to me the story. Yep, he's not gonna
win it. Correct, He's not going to win it. I
badly want him to win it. I bet on him
to win it before the season started at plus one thousand,
so nothing would make me happier. I'd be happy for Joe,
I'd be happy for me. I'd be happy for others
who made the same wager than if Joe won it.

(41:23):
He's not gonna win it, and that, to me is
the story that you and I know going in.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
He's not going to.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Win it because his team and his organization has cost
him a legitimate chance. If they're eleven and five, even
if Baltimore is eleven and five matter, we're having a
really good spirited discussion about who is going to win it,
and we don't know.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
I don't think it would be that spirited though. If
they were eleven and five, I think he would be,
odds wise an easy front runner for the MVP.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Probably, but I don't. I think there's some mystery to it.
Sure now there's no mystery. It's gonna be Josh Allen,
or it might be Lamar, It's not gonna be Joe.
I go back and forth on this because I value
team success. You mentioned Drew Brees in twenty eleven. He
didn't win on a thirteen and three team. Joe's either
going to be on a nine to eight team or
an eight to nine team.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
And so if I'm.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Looking at this objectively, I have a hard time getting
around the fact that he hasn't led his team to
team success. At the same time, how much do you
want to punish him for that? But the overriding point
to me, there's two.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Number one.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Is this the quarterback of the Cincinnati Bengals in a
year after he got hurt and a lot of people wondered,
is the injury prone? Is he going to come back
and be one hundred percent? Has re established himself as
one of the very best players in this league, one
of the very best players in this league. I think
he's the best quarterback in the NFL. Now, sometimes the

(42:50):
best player doesn't win MVP. Michael Jordan can tell you
as much. That's number one. Number two, the quarterback of
the Cincinnati Bengals is having a season that should give him,
if not the MVP, at least a more compelling case,
and yet he has almost no chance because of the

(43:11):
circumstances around him. And that is a failure on behalf
of the front office. It is a failure by the
coaching staff, and it's a failure by many of his teammates.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
And that's a problem.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
And if we keep doing this, if we get to
a point where every December we're talking about, God, Joe's
having an MVP caliber season but can't win it because
they're eight, nine, nine and eight sneaking in as the
seventh seed, that's gonna become a problem.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
It's not even it's not even that he's not even
gonna be in the top.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Three vote getters. I don't know about that, maybe three.
I think he'll be a finalist, maybe three. But we're
not talking about an MVP caliber year.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
We're talking about a quarterback that's done stuff that doesn't
happen in NFL history. He has a chance still to
eclipse five thousand yards. He has a chance to throw
forty five or more touchdowns. Yeah, And here's the thing, Like,
because I tie in MVP and I also think that
he's the greatest quarterback on the planet. Right now, what
do you get hit with the most mahomes? Twenty six touchdowns,

(44:09):
eleven interceptions this year right now? Again, teams had one loss.
A lot of that's on mahomes, But They've also scored
thirty twice this year. One was in overtime. Yeah, they're
not rewriting offensive record books. But then you get Well
Lamar and then you get Josh Allen. Well, if you're
gonna dock Joe Burrow for certain things, Allen's never won
the big one. Lamar has struggled in the biggest ones.

(44:32):
They've yet to take that jump. But to tell that
Joe Burrow did.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
You can't make the MVP about what guys know.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
But I'm tying in MVP and currently the best player
on the planet. Sure, and I think Burrow slides into
both of those. It's just we do this all the
time and the NCAA tournament comes around. Put the blind
resumes up, just put no picture, just put the stats.
It wouldn't even be close. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
I also think with Joe, you had to have watched
and you know, we live here Cincinnati, so we watch
every snap. There are folks who are going to weigh
in on this, and look, the Bengals are on high
profile games, are gonna be on another one on Saturday,
watching him, watching how he has had to make magic,
how he has had at times been forced to create

(45:16):
when it feels like the play around him is falling apart.
What he's done in high pressure situations, what he did
in spite of the circumstances around him on Saturday, Like,
there's part of it where it's like you.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Had to have seen it.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
You can look at the numbers, and the numbers tell
a great story, and the numbers make a case. But
to me, what is most compelling is what was it
like in real time watching him. I've never seen for
the Bengals at least a quarterback like this. They've had
good quarterbacks, They've had MVP winning quarterbacks. I've not seen
anybody like this. So when you mesh that with the stats,

(45:51):
the case is there. And again I'll admit to you,
I lean a little bit more toward team success.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
Say what you want. Lamar's beaten Joe Burrow head to
head twice.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
And had good games doing it, had really good.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Games doing it.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
I just I fear what's gonna happen this week is
this conversation is going to stop being fun. Because if
you vote for Josh Allen, that's fine. If you vote
for Saquon Barkley, that's fine. If you vote for Lamar Jackson,
that's fine. The key for me, though, is you can
make a case. When have we ever done this? When
have we ever taken a quarterback on a five hundred
team and made an MVP case. I can't recall the

(46:25):
time a quarterback has won the award every year since
twenty thirteen. You have, to the best of my recollection,
never been able to make a convincing MVP case for
a guy leading a five hundred team.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
You can.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
That's almost unprecedented, and that speaks to how good he
has been.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
He would be the only quarterback that ever throw for
forty five outside of Breeze to not get an MVP.
What is your rebuttal? Because the rebuttal I get the
most is well, and I understand where the thought is well.
He's also failed to finish in a couple games. Okay,
He's also been given the ball with an opperunity. He's
also had some bad turnovers mixed in. Because my response

(47:03):
immediately goes to, you're not seeing the picture of what
he does and has to do every game because to
the knock, well, the turnovers. He's asked every single play
to extend the play. He's asked every single play to
make the wild play because they can't do enough in
protection and they can't do enough in scheme to help him. So, yes,
are there times he holds onto the ball too much? Absolutely?

(47:26):
Do you know who else else turns the ball over?
Josh Allen fumbles the ball, Josh Allen throws interceptions, Lamar
Jackson fumbles the ball. Lamar throws interceptions. It's part of
the game. But Joe, his scale is different because Joe,
unlike everyone else, is asked to do the most. He's
asked to extend with a bad offensive line. He's asked

(47:47):
to extended times where they go away from the running game.
He's asked to overcome double digit deficits where the other
team knows without a doubt that he's throwing the ball
and still finds a way to make it happen. Yes,
he's held onto the ball at times, but he holds
onto the ball every big play they make because that's
been the nature of how this offense is built. That's

(48:07):
the biggest pushback I get of Well, he's also had
a couple opportunities and they haven't went won the games.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, So I mean it's an award reflective of the
body of work. The body of work is gonna have
warts Lamar Jackson threw a pick in that game against
the Steelers, failed on a two point try. Josh Allen
didn't lead his team to a touchdown and got pulled
in a blowout loss to the Ravens. Saquon Barkley, who's
in the mix, not gonna win it. Drop that pass
against Atlanta Falcons that seals the game. So yeah, anecdotally,

(48:36):
are there moments where a guy falls short.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
It's a body of work award.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, if it's gonna be the player who played seventeen
games and never made a mistake, there will be no MVP.
So I get it's very close. If you look at
the three quarterbacks and what they have done, and so
you're looking for reasons to maybe not vote for one
ahead of the other. And again, like for me, I
I look more at the team's success because that's what

(49:03):
we've done with the MVP.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
But I'm not gonna hold it again.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
He played poorly against the Patriots, he was pedestrian throwing
the ball against the Giants, he did run for that score.
He's had games where he's had turnovers. Look at the
body of work, watch him play and understand the context.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
He is a candidate.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Unfortunately, he's only a candidate because the team around him
and the organization that he works for has failed.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
And let's be honest, Josh Lamar taking both off the team.
Their teams are also bad. Yeah, but from a guy
who does the most with the deficiencies around him. There
are more deficiencies on the Bengals than there are on
the Bills, and they're on the Ravens and even on
the Chiefs with eleven interceptions from Patrick Mahomes. There are
way more deficiencies that Joe Burrow is covering and making

(49:51):
up for. I'm gonna do it in the offseason. I'm
gonna take the forty two or whatever the number finishes with.
I watch every single one of them, and out of
the total number, how many are made based on what
was just called in from the sideline? Yeah, how many
are made because of improvising?

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Well, it was funny.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
There was a there was a throw kind of early
in the game on Saturday where he had all kinds
of time and Jamar is running across the middle and
Joe throws a terrible ball missed him, and I kind
of joked to myself, like Joe didn't know what to do,
No clean pocket, time to throw, like what am I
doing here?

Speaker 3 (50:22):
And it was one of the.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Poorer passes you'll see Joe throw. You're exactly right. I mean,
if you look at those touchdown passes, if you look
at his ten best balls this year, I'm willing to
bet none of them involved. Take the snap, Yeah, take
a couple of steps, hitch, step up throw.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
It's never that, never that.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
No.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
Maybe the late throw to Higgins on Saturday Night, the
one that set up the touchdown, Yeah, that was in rhythm.
Their biggest plays, the touchdowns, like very rarely is it
Like drop back there's a wide open crosser who catches
it and walks into the end zone. More often than not,
it's Hudini makes something happen, extend to play, throw an

(51:03):
amazing ball, receiver goes up and gets I.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Mean, I'm just trying to do it. Like in my head.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
The deep pass against the Ravens that tide the game
with Jamar that was a clean pocket. Yeah, on first down,
first play of the drive. There haven't been man, it's
not many, and he's thrown forty two of them.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I just again, I'm I don't feel that strongly about it.
To be honest with you, like if if you say
to me, I'm voting for Josh Allen, dude.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
Fuck.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
If you say to me I'm voting for Joe Burrow, awesome.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I hope you have a vote because that's who I
bet on. The larger point to me is number one,
after an off season where some wondered is he going
to get back to what he was, He's even better
and it has been largely wasted, wasted, and the Cincinnati
Bengals have cost a player an MVP.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
I can't reiterate as well, the mental of Joe Burrow
knowing more often than not they have to score every possession,
knowing more often than not, when you drop back in
an obvious past situation, you're going to take some type
of hit. And again go back to the Titans game
years ago when he got sacked. I don't known any
time seven sacks, fifteen quarterback hits and at the end

(52:15):
doing whatever he can.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
But like, there's the other part of this.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
The mental side is unbelievable that he'll just bounce back
and bounce back and bounce back right after. I mean again,
we talk about every week, how many times is he
taking a hit and you watch the play and then
you immediately flash back because it wasn't just a little push,
it was a big time hit underneath the chin.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah, there's the other part of it, though.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
How good could he be if they ever put him
behind a good offensive line? Yep, I'm not talking about
okay league average good like put him behind one of
the offensive lines that Andy Dalton got to play behind
when he was here.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Put him behind one of those groups. Can you even imagine?
Can't even imagine what those numbers would look like.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Nope, they haven't done it yet, and the longer they don't,
the more they're gonna flirt with disaster.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
But I bet you he's a finalist.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I think he has been good enough that the people
who vote on such things there are four finalists. I
think Joe finished third or fourth two years ago. Now
a finalist. He I think he's gonna be a final.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
And now nationally there's a lot more behind it, sure
because of how he's played. Yeah, and the stats are
now that skewed that you can't ignore what he's doing.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
And I also do feel like, and this it's also
not stat padding.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
You're right, it's also they're not a three win team,
and he's throwing it fifty five times a game to
get the stats up.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
And he's also not blowing a bunch of teams out
and throwing a bunch of the garbage time touchdowns. I
do think what what's gonna work in his favor? And
I think this also obviously works the Josh Allen's favor.
Like it or not, voters look at a guy who's
already won the award and they go.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Eh, he's got one.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
He's got to like I mentioned Jordan, we did We
did this in the NBA, We still do it in
the NBA. Well, you know, Jordan's the best player. But
it's Carl Malone's time. And so I think you are
gonna have voters who go, look, Lamar's gotten his it's
someone else's turn. And I think that will help Joe again.
I think he has almost no chance to win it.
I'd love to be wrong, but I do think that's

(54:11):
gonna boost his relevancy in the final totals when we
telli of the votes.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
But it also is a point. It happened this year,
Better never happened again, exactly, Better never wasted again?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Exactly If we are talking about Joe Burr. If we're
doing this in a year, if we're doing this at
any point during his prime, Golli g He leads the
league in this category up here, in this but he
has no chance of winning MVP. Then again, the Bengals
will have failed their quarterback like they have mostly failed
him this year. Twenty two after four o'clock, we're at
a Twin Peaks in Florence Tony and MO Football show

(54:44):
until six o'clock. Sean Payton's decision at the end of
regulation will discuss coming up in ten minutes on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Excuse Football in Thenetti on the official home of the Bengals,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Five minutes after four. This is ESPN fifteen to thirty
Moeggor with Tony Blke. It's the second to last schedule
Tony EMO Football Show of the year. We're back in
Westchester next week. We're in Florence today here at Twin
Peaks where the beer is ice cold. Here till six
o'clock tonight. Bengals line comes your way as soon as

(55:24):
we're done. Should Sean Payton at the end of regulation
have gone for two.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
Without a doubt. I don't know. I don't know why
they didn't, because at that point, it wasn't like your
defense was dominating. You knew Joe was getting into a
pretty good rhythm. Tea was going. At any point, Jamar
is gonna get going. I was shocked because and I'm
sure you're in the same boat as soon as the
play happens. I'm I'm looking back to the coachings. Yeah,

(55:54):
and I'm watching bo Nick's signal for two. He clearly
wanted to go for two. I just much like we
talk about Joe putting it in I'm sorry, Zach putting
in Joe's hands. If you're Sean Payton, why leave it
to chance with the coin flip with Joe Burrow on
the other side of the ball. Yeah, go with the
chance to go to the playoffs. You know, you say, Okay,

(56:15):
we have one play to get three yards and if
we do, we're going to the playoffs when we end
their season. I'd rather do that than let Joe Burrow
potentially get the ball.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
I look at it through this lens as a Bengals fan.
When I saw the kicker, lets go out onto the
field I was releasing. Yeah, so if I'm Sean Payton,
what do they want me to do?

Speaker 3 (56:36):
I'm gonna guess.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Zach Taylor thought, Okay, kicker's coming out, I get a reprieve,
let's see.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
What happens with the flip and go from there.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, as a Bengals fan, as soon as the kicker
came out, because I saw the same thing you did,
Bo Nicks. Yeah, toners at his coach. Here's what I wonder.
So there was a replay review, which there is with
every scoring play, but it was and I think they
got it right, but there was legitimate question as to
whether Mems had a clean catch.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Sure made a great play between two defenders. Yeah, I wonder.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
If the length of the of the replay review kept
Sean because I remember the Bengals had a Hail Mary
pass against the Ravens two years ago and my t
and it was clearly a catch, no real long replay needed,
and they kick and they lost them overtime. And my
case was like, you've got them on their heels, they're scrambling,

(57:34):
they're trying to deal with and now line up, run
the two point conversion, walk them off, and I feel
like the replay review. If I'm Sean Payton, I go, Okay,
they've had a chance to gather themselves sort of, all right, recalibrate,
here's what we need to do. I'm not gonna let
them do that, so I'll try to kick. It's worth
mentioning though they actually did stop Joe Burrow and I'm

(57:55):
team Gopher two there, but they did stop Joe Burrow
was also weird to me. All Denver needed was a tie, yeah,
And I thought, especially on their second possession, they didn't believe.
They didn't really play like they just needed a tie.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
That's what that was. My concern is they'll run the
clock out right and get out of here now.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
When they got the ball the second time, I thought,
we're gonna end in a tie and we're gonna spend
all the time talking about Zach Taylor and Kate York.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
I take it in the way that you felt as
a fan. I was terrified they were going to go
for two yep. And when they didn't, like okay, I
was relieved. We're all right, yeah, you know. I If
I'm Sean Payton, all I'm doing is looking across the field.
That's number nine. We gotta go. Yeah, we gotta we
gotta go when this game is in our hands and
not leave it up to someone else. And the fact

(58:43):
that they allowed Joe Burrow multiple times in overtime to
get the ball back, they end up paying for it.
But no chance am I allowing a coin flip to
decide my opportunity to go to the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
I'm on the road. The game has heightened importance and
they have Joe Burrow. Yep, I am winning it. And
look if I lose, I have next week, right. I
mean it was it was a big game.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
It was a ye, not done. It was a win
and in.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
But okay, I've got next week. I'm not losing this
game because I didn't take a chance with my offense.
I can't help but wonder if they if that's a
clean touchdown catch right, meaning it's it's not it's not
really reviewed, and now the defense is really on its heels.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Do they go for two?

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Scared? Scared? Money makes no money?

Speaker 2 (59:31):
They say it's a four to thirty On ESPN fifteen thirty,
Tony and Mo Football Show Sports headlines the sweet Live
stat of the Week, and we'll look ahead to Saturday
night when we come back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
You've been listening to football in Thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Cincinnati's esp deadlines are a service of Kelsey Shevrolati, home
of lifetime powertraining proach and guarantee credit approval from their
family to yours for life, Kelseyshev dot Com. No official
Bengals news today, and that's actually not true. Sheldon Rankins
has been placed on the reserve non football illness list.

(01:00:16):
Sheldon his first season with the Bengals, unfortunately for him,
kind of a wash. Played in seven games and didn't
make a huge impact while he was on the field.
Hopefully long term he is okay. Bengals players off today.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
For him too. You gotta worry and wonder, yeah, and
hope for the best. I mean, he's been on the
the the non injury illness list for a while and
now to shut it down. I hope he's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Bengals and Steelers on Saturday Night, Mike Tomlin did not
really indicate that he plans on not playing his key
guys if Baltimore wins that first game on Saturday, Pittsburgh
would still have something to play for and something that
I think is significant. They have yet to wrap up
the five seat. Now if they win the division, obviously

(01:00:59):
they're gonna have a home game, But there's a pretty
substantial difference in opponent between the five and the six.
If you're the five, you go to Houston. If you're
the six, you gonna play Baltimore. Yeah, I know what
I would rather do.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
You can't help, but wonder too if this is what
Cleveland's waiting for. People have said they're laying down, but
with the reworked money for Deshaun Watson, you got to
wonder why Cleveland's not trying to win more right now?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Monday Night Football tonight Lions and forty nine Ers.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
College basketball you see is up to sixteenth AP Top
twenty five Pole Bearcats will be at Kansas State tonight
at seven on seven hundred WLW Kentucky tenth AP eleventh
Coaches Poll, the Mark Pope Shows tonight at six Fox
Sports thirteen sixty. Also tonight, the Miami RedHawks battle Defiance.
Do we talk about what half.

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
During the break we have to This is big, I
mean not only we've had now multiple co workers show
up today. We've got a former Bengal that's now here,
and you got to wonder if he's here for the
ten year show.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
I think he just stumbled in.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
He has no idea we had a show here today.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Yeah, no, no remote idea.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
No, this is big. This is our tenth year, Yes
of doing the Tonian Football Show. Five five awesome years
with twin Peaks and uh really just rewarded over the break.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
The we got official iHeart Media certificates. Yes, I thought
that maybe the CEO, Bob Pittman would have signed it,
but I know it's the holidays.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
Yeah, it's hard around the holidays, but it was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
It was not really signed, but it comes from the executive.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Producer of The Tonian Football Show, Tom Horan unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
With a proclamation recognizing and saluting ten years of the
Tony and Mo Football Show. Congratulations on a job weller done.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
And it came with some special reserve two bottles of
Weller unbelievable. That's why Joe's here bourbon. Yeah, he hasn't
shown up in years and now he's here all of
a sudden on the day. We get some drinks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
Well, it's good as ever see him.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
Yeah, so it's good to see him. Certainly appreciated. I
want to thank Tom, our executive director.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
To thank Tom Horan for the recognition is very nice.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
Yeah. Tom also wants to stick around to hear us
break down the Bearcat game at some point today.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
I'm sure he would like that. The question is who
will last deeper into twenty twenty five. Oh, this season's
Bengals or that bottle of Greenweller.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
I don't know if this bottle will make it to
twenty twenty five. Good question, I mean tomorrow's New Year's Eve.
Very good chance it doesn't make it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Bearcats do play tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Oh yeah, that could be either way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
I think the Bengals are gonna see Thank you, Tom.
I think the Bengals are going to see a motivated
Pittsburgh team on Saturday. Mike tom Lead even today said like,
we got to get this taste out of our mouths
a row going into the postseason. You don't want to
make it for So I think they're gonna get a
motivated Pittsburgh team. Are they gonna play a good Pittsburgh team?

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
I just can't believe they've lost three in a row
since reinventing the offensive wheel, which is what they did
against the Bengals the first time around. They got it
out quick and they ran some screens. Look, they're not
the same team with George Pickens, not Russell Wilson has
made some uncharacteristically bad decisions and turning the ball over,
and they're not healthy on defense. And you know, one

(01:04:16):
of the things I've always admired with Mike Tomlin, everything
stays in house. You know, Le'Veon Bell Antonio Brown were
in that locker room for years and we had no
inkling of understanding of just how bad it was. And
then they go off on their own and you're like,
holy cow, these two were on the same team. And
oddly enough, after their last loss, TJ Watt cam Heyward,

(01:04:39):
leaders of that team are talking about you know, you
got ten guys going one guy not in the same
direction and makes a difference. It feels like there's a
little bit of noise for the first time in a
long time coming out of that Pittsburgh locker room, which
they always do a good job of keeping in house.
And you wonder what that means going forward.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Well, I mean, that's that's the one thing you expect
from a Tomlin team, especially with that extra time to prepare.
They will have last played on Wednesday, Christmas Day, is
with time to get ready for this game. If Mike
Tomlin's good at anything, I think it's exactly that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
It's all right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
It kind of feels like everybody's kind of drifting off
the island here. Let's get everybody refocused, everybody back on
the same page, and let's go after it here. And
unfortunately that may occur in the game the Bengals have
to win. That said, in the first game against Pittsburgh,
say what you want about what they couldn't do defensively.

(01:05:33):
Saw Joe Burrow do a lot of awesome things and
the Bengals offensively do a lot of awesome things in
the first game.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
Yeah, and Jamar Chase not as dominant that game only
I think eighty six yards in a touchdown, So that's
not characteristic of what he's done this year. But man,
you talking about there is a lot. If you're Jamar Chase,
you want to get the triple crown, you want to
wrap that up, wrap that up. He is nine catches ahead,
one hundred and thirty three yards ahead, and four touchdowns ahead,
So a pedestrian game on his level, he's gonna lock

(01:06:00):
up the triple crown. But a team in Pittsburgh who
weeks ago started to feel like they could make legitimate
noise in the AFC maybe one of those teams that
peaked a little bit too early. They are now kind
of struggling to find their footing offensively. It's been the
same problem over and over and over again. But I
thought a very disappointing effort against the Kansas City Chiefs

(01:06:22):
on Christmas deck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Yeah, and frankly, to me, I watched that and thought
more about how good Kansas City looked, and finally thought like,
that's well, that's the first time that I've actually kind
of been impressed with the Chiefs this season.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Had that not happened with their decision to rest guys
been different, maybe, you know, had they slept, walked through
and won a close low story one, do you say,
can't risk send them three weeks?

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
But they were pretty crisp.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
Yep, the offensively Travis Kelsey sets the record for Kansas
City running game looks better, But yeah, it's interesting how
it played out. I can say one thing, Yeah, if
Justin Fields enters the game. Let's get this out of
the way now, because we're gonna spoil something for maybe.
I know the Bengals do listen if Justin Fields is
in at any time, maybe an extended amount of time

(01:07:06):
based on what happens with the Ravens. He's going to
run the ball. You have to have an answer for
if he runs the ball. Really, yes, RPO run pass
option with the quarterback. You've got to add a hat
for him. I just want to get that out there. Okay,
can't say we didn't tell you. It makes sense to me.
By the way, you mentioned the Bengals listen on. We
were doing the pregame show with Ken Brew on Saturday, Yeah,

(01:07:30):
hours before the Bengals game, and we were told that
in the club level they were carrying our show. Yeah,
so like all those rich people who go to games,
they were listening in the club level to the Tony
to the pregame show.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Yeah, ken Brew and you and me. Do they turn
that off like during the week after Darling? Well no,
I mean like after they get the picks. They broadcasted
on Saturday. I'm guessing they carry the game feed. It
stays on it so like, so is there a chance
that in the club level of the venue formerly known

(01:08:08):
as Paul Brown Stadium, right now you could hear us.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Yes, now, I don't know who's there right now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I'm guessing the coaches are in their respective offices or
in a meeting room. Of course they sleep there so
they can figure out how to handle the end of games.
Justin fields, Yeah, justin fields. So are we on, Like
do they carry this radio station? Do they carry these
shows all the time?

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
There? Judging in passing pan, I would imagine they have
someone listening.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Oh, I could assure you they have someone listening. I
could assure you there's a there is someone listening right now.
I could promise you that. But I just want to know.
So if you are working in the east, east or west?

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
Was the east the pavilion area?

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Okay, if you are working in that level of the
venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
Hi, Hello, thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Thanks thanks for for tuning in. I was surprised to hear.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
That, you know, people want to know any last minute details.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
I thought they just blared music or something.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
I did too, and I would imagine that there are
folks walking around.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Yeah it's before the game, and yeah, Hey, can you
just bring it down to eleven? I want to hear it. Yeah,
when you hear Ken and Mom Tony have to say.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
Here's some of the picks they're making.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
It's time for the sweet Life HVAC stat of the
Week thanks to our friends at sweet Life Heating and Cooling.
This winter, make sure your home has what it needs
from a heating perspective. If you need service, if you
need a new system, go to call sweetlife dot com.
That's call sweet Life dot com. Joe Burrow finished the

(01:09:48):
game on Saturday night with thirty nine completions on forty
nine attempts for four hundred and twelve yards and three tds,
which marks the eighth consecutive game that he's had at
least two hundred and fifty yard in three touchdown passes,
which extends the longest streak in NFL history.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
He also became the.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Fourth QBAN league history with three or more scoring passes
in eight straight games. Tom Brady is one, Peyton Manning
is the other, Andrew Luck is the other.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
Other.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Wow and Burrow finished the game with one hundred and
thirty nine career touchdown passes in the regular season, which
passes both Josh Allen and Peyton Manning for third most
in NFL history in a player's first five seasons.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
What would be the talking point now they're still playing
for something? What if T plays all sixteen games and
going into the final week? T and Jamar both have
fifteen touchdown passes? Are we talking about? You gotta let
Jamar get It'd be fascinating, Like I was surprised today
because I know he's been good. Tied for fifth in

(01:10:53):
the NFL with ten touchdown receptions in just eleven games.
Is T Higgins if he were pushing or tied which
Lamar Chase would would you have to? Would you have
to make sure Jamar gets to the triple crown? Now
that they have the same agent, what else is happening there?

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
So my guess is, first of all, the outcome of
the game has to have been decided. They have to
be winning convincingly and still on the field, which if
they're winning convincingly, I kind of don't want him on
the field, but.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
That T.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Higgins would say to Joe, dude, get our guy another
TV yep, right, get our guy another touchdown reception. He's
got a chance to do something historically significant get him
his touchdown. Yeah, I think I think that much of history. Yeah,
because it's a bigger deal for Jamar than t Right,

(01:11:47):
it's cool for Tea, But if Jamar Chase has a
chance to win the triple crown, my guess is everybody
on the offense would say, all right, maybe not force it,
Let's not make a mistake.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
And I'm talking get him an easy like shovel pass,
cheap touchdown.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
No shovel pass.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
But like I'm talking about, the Bengals are up thirty seven,
five minutes to go, go get one.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
Let's go get one.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
My guess is everybody on the offense would want a touchdown.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
Speaking of record books, just over one hundred yards needed
for Saquon Barkley, who remember the Giants in the offseason said,
you know, do we want to spend twelve million on
a guy we're going to turn the hand the ball
off to. How are you handling things? If you're the Eagles?
What one oh two away from Eric Dickerson's all time
rushing record for a single season. He's he's been injury

(01:12:36):
prone throughout his career. He's been healthy this year. Yeah,
their seating is where it is already are you playing
him to try to get a record that has stood
the test of time? From an NFL standpoint in a
in a in a time where we were told, right,
running backs don't matter as much. Yeah, here's a guy
with an opportunity to break an all time record. Are
you trying to go get that? I think the number
is too big. I think if it's like forty yards, yeah,

(01:12:59):
all right, I mean it's a team you're playing as bad.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
I would have to sit with him, and Saquon Barkley
has been asked this and he has been like, look,
I get it if I don't play.

Speaker 4 (01:13:08):
He had times other points of the year where he
sat out in the fourth court. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
I would sit down with him and go, okay, how
important is this to you?

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
In a two thousand he's already in rarefied air.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Yeah, if it's that important, we'll give it a go.
But you're not getting it twenty eight times.

Speaker 4 (01:13:26):
I could see, like the first half ten carries, eight
to ten carries and say, okay, maybe you can bust far.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah, maybe early in the game you can bust one
and you eat up a whole chunk of yards in
one play.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
Yeah, But fourth.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Quarter, man like sorry, like I wouldn't have an issue
with let's try to use the first quarter to see
if we can get him close, and then if we
get him close, we'll figure it out.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
And running back's just one of those positions where the
amount of people that are at your legs, your lower
body on every single play the pile. But I mean,
it's just a lot that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Let's just say we've tried it. We've played two offensive series.
He has five carries, ten yards. No, see you, not
your day. We got other stuff to do.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Not your day.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
It is eleven away from five o'clock. It was someone
else's day on Saturday. Oh, a guy that we have
kind of beat up on this year. We'll give credit
to when we come back. Toniamo Football Show Twin Peaks
in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (01:14:23):
It's a victory.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Monday edition of the Tonyamo Football Show at Twin Peaks
in Florence. We are here till six o'clock talking about
a Bengals victory over the Denver Broncos and what lies ahead. Obviously,
first things first, a game on Saturday night against the
Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Cincinnati needing a win.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
I get a few other NFL things we need to
talk about, but I would be remiss because I believe
in if you're gonna be critical of someone when they
deserve it, when they deserve the exact opposite, which is
praise or credit, you should give it as well. Who
knows how that game unfolds if not for an interception
by Jamain Prat playoff p now chances are I was

(01:15:07):
third and fifteen, that passes incomplete, still get the ball anyway,
But they did score a touchdown, he did get a
short field and look, we've beaten up Jermaine for bad tackling,
for how he is explaining the bad tackling, how he's
come at some folks on social media.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
Jermaine Pratz made some big plays in his career.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
Maybe Saturday Night wasn't the biggest, but at the time
it was huge.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
Yeah. I mean the interception, it shuts the door on
Denver's chances. It puts the ball back in Joe Burrow's hands,
and looks, as much as we've talked about what he's
done or not done, he has a track record of
making big plays for this team in the playoffs. I
don't know what changes or the switch that hits. But
he needs to be credited with things that he did,

(01:15:53):
and he was part of those stops in overtime as well.
Mentioned the defense multiple stops in overtime. They get up
three in the first half and none after the first drive.
Of those scripted plays which we talked about a lot
with bow Nicks, where you see the struggles, but in
large part he was he was running. I wrote four
other names on my list. He was one of them.

(01:16:13):
Mike Kasicki ten catches, monster game. I thought Yoshi with
only three catches was big. Is Mike Kasicki related to
Mike Gliski?

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I ain he could be. Mike glisky I was told.
I was told on Saturday night Mike Gliski.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
Had had a game. I could see that Mike Sicki
did play well, though I thought Chase Brown even got
her ninety one total yards not as big as an impact,
but for me, I thought he had a big running
overtime and did the job. Khalil Herbert, yes, who's not
been relied on since he fumbled the ball in his
first touch, had a big twelve thirteen yard running overtime.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
Was that the speed option?

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
Yeah? Then know about the option card.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
Where did that come from?

Speaker 4 (01:16:50):
No idea like option to Khalil Herbert. Not something I
had on the Bengo card in overtime, But I thought
he was solid in some opportunities which he hasn't gotten
much of. Good to see, and I thought Burton had
a nice return and special teams as well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
He did Chase Brown.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Now there seems to be some optimism that this isn't
going to be a big deal. But even if it's
not a big deal, that doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna
play on Saturday. And if he does, it doesn't mean
he's going to be a hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:17:17):
Percent Say him playing lately has been war course reps. Yeah,
you know, almost taking every snap. Sure, if he is
able to get out there, I just don't see the
pack where he's able to get out there, and wow,
I don't know if he's able to get out there
and give you a hundred snaps.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
So that's my thing. The Bengals have gone on this run,
Chase Brown has been a huge part of it. He's
been very productive. You've got to continue the run. Possibly,
let's just say without Chase Brown, or with at least
a limited Chase Brown.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Can they do that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Because they have nine? Yes, you know it might require them.
I mean, you're gonna take away ten to twelve carries
from running backs. Are we really mad that Joe Burrow
is gonna get ten more pass attempts? Now? No, but
we don't want to drive him back. But it takes
away a little bit of the balance. And I thought
Chase Brown the first time he gets the Steelers was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
Yeah, you know, Mike.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
Tomlin leading up to that game was we're gonna make
we haven't seen Chase Brown yet. We're gonna make sure
he feels it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
We have to establish a relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Yep. And I thought Chase Brown was the aggressor in
that game and very interesting to see going forward what
his availability is and how much they can rely on
Khalil Herbert.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
A little bit later on, we'll dive into the college
football playoff talk about the rest of the NFL playoff picture.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
But we have to spend more time on t Higgins.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Yeah, more time on Zach Taylor and situational football and
another guy that has kind of enjoyed a little bit
of a resurgence here late in the season. Now many
wondering if he's gonna come back. Mike Hilton lots to
get to over the last hour the show. We're here
at Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 5 (01:18:58):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC.

Speaker 4 (01:19:05):
Health Traffic Center.

Speaker 6 (01:19:07):
The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center is the region's first
and only provider of specialized primary care services for cancer
patients and survivors. Call five one three five A five
UCCC on Bridle Road. It is an accident, this one
west of eight mile traffic. Stomp and go southbound seventy

(01:19:27):
one between Reading Road and Fort Washington Way right now
up to a five minute delay. I'm at ezelic with
traffic this report.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
This is the Tony and Mo Football Show Live from
Twin Peaks, brought to you in part by on Goore Technologies.
Visit on Goore Dot Tech pen Station, East Ghast Subs
Penn Station. It's all in good taste Honda East, Cincinnati's
Ultimate Hondi Experience. First State Bank built on belief Ralph's
American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio. Just off I seventy one

(01:19:57):
X and fifty inside the Holiday and at the Rough
Center and by your Tri State Chevy Dealers Chevrolet, the
number one selling Brandon Cincinnati for the past eight years.
Chevrolet Together, let's drive on the official home of the
Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
All right, it's the Power Hour on a victory Monday
of the Toni and Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the second to last scheduled Tonian Mo football show.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
We'll be back in.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Westchester next week. Who knows if we'll have a show
two weeks from today. Time will tell a lot has
to happen. We'll worry about that later. Here's what we know.
We're here for the next hour, specifically here for the
next fifty five minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
We've got ice cold beer.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
We've got a great bourbon selection, we've got awesome food,
we've got a great staff, and we're having a lot
of fun talking about a Bengals win and week eighteen
mattering to the local squad. So get out here. If
you have been a twin peaks here in Florence, very
close to Ice seventy five. Awesome place if you want
to watch this Monday night football game, which is ninety

(01:21:06):
nine percent meaningless. You could watch that here U see
plays tonight if you're a Bearcat fan in northern Kentucky
to watch Cincinnati open up Big twelve play against Kansas State,
and hang out great place for all the college well
playoff games later this week. Kentucky plays tomorrow, NFL Action
this weekend, and so much more. Twin Peaks in Florence.
We thank them as always for their hospitality.

Speaker 4 (01:21:28):
Yeah, and if this is the last Florence broadcast of
the year, what a year it's been.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
What a year it's been?

Speaker 4 (01:21:34):
What it been? Thankful for them?

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
No, they are, They have been terrific. Let's play a
game of what's more likely. Okay, the Bengals win, the
Jets win, and the Chiefs win. Or T Higgins is
a Bengal in twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
Five, Tea is a Bengal in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
You and I feel that way, Yeah, you and I
feel like it's likely.

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
I still talk to a lot of people who feel
like it's probably not gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
I just with Joe's comments and how he's played, and
then switching agents and having the same agent as Jamar Chase,
I just think there's too many moves going in that direction.
And let's be honest, for every reason we talked about
earlier with Joe Burrow and ruining what this season has been,
do you really want to if this season is ruined

(01:22:21):
and lost, go against what he wants when he says
I need T Higgins, when he says I will be
greatly disappointed if we don't get T Higgins back. Are
you going to follow up the greatest statistical season he's
ever had, where you missed the playoffs, where you underachieve,
where he's sacked top five in the NFL, and go

(01:22:43):
into that offseason and say, I know you want it
to happen, but we're not gonna do it. So, I mean,
that's just not a risk I would take.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
There was a part of me that goes, if I'm
Joe Burrow, Okay, I've shown up here, I've done everything
you've asked. Right, You've put me behind bad offensive lines.
I don't complain You're gonna cost me the MBA Award
this year. I'm not gonna complain. I have publicly asked
for one thing, give me this one thing. And by
the way, if we're going back to his post game

(01:23:11):
after the Dallas win, when we assumed he was referencing
maybe doing a restructure. If I'm Joe and I've asked
for this one thing, this one thing, and I've offered
to help make it easier to make it happen, and
you don't give it to me, now I'm pissed.

Speaker 4 (01:23:30):
Yeah. And at the same time, after that Pittsburgh loss,
talking about we're going to find people down the stretch
who are are all in, who are going to be
cornerstones for us. That would appear to be t Higgins, right,
you know, so he's talked about it. Te's backed it
up with his play. Joe's backed it up with his play.
It's just not a roll of the dice I would
take if I'm the Bengals, And that's one where even

(01:23:51):
if you historically don't like, that's one where you gotta
do it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:23:54):
So I mean you and at the cost of what
they've spent money, they've got it wrong in many places.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
Sure, I I do what you do. I connect the dots.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
There's what we all read into after Joe's postgame comments
in Dallas, where we assumed he was referencing his willingness
to take a pay cut or restructure his contract. I
think it's a better way to put it. There's switching
of the agents to Jamar's agent. There are the rumblings
that T is not so much interested in breaking the

(01:24:25):
bank or being paid like a number one wide receiver.
I think you put all those things together. I have
felt like now for a couple of weeks that it's
at least a slight likelihood that he comes back.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
I'm not there every day.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
It just it feels like that's where the momentum has
been pointing toward, or building toward, and then Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
Night, Saturday, Now you're not going to bring him back. Yeah,
But what he means to the fan bases? What Like
we talk a lot about Joe being calculated. Joe could
have said, I love T man, I hope he's a bangle. Yeah,
he said I need him here. Need he's in need,
A want, not a luxury, not someone that man. That'd
be cool. I need him here, and if not, I

(01:25:08):
would be extremely disappointed. Do you want the leader of
your franchise who's taking a ton amount of a ton
of hits, whose MVP year has been wasted? Do you
want that guy going into a season pissed? Off at
the front office, pissed off at the organization because since
he's been here, I'm sure he's wanted more linemen. He's
not said I need to be protected with five new guys.

(01:25:29):
I need to be giving the ball to a better
I need number five here. Yeah, this is I don't
know how you run run the risk of not doing nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Yeah, this is the one thing.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
If you have an employee who's like needy and they're
always I need this and I want to have this,
like it goes in one and out the other. But
if you have a good employee who comes to you
rarely and says I need this, Nope, you listen.

Speaker 3 (01:25:54):
It's one thing.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
If you've got someone who just constantly is complaining and
they need this, none know I need and like at something,
it's like, dude, enough. But if you have someone who
never does that, but they finally do it and they
make a point of letting you know I need this, boy,
you take that into consideration.

Speaker 4 (01:26:12):
I have to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
I just I hear all the talk of culture and like,
I'm the first to roll my eyes at it sometimes.
But there's the type of player you want to move
forward with. There's also the type of teammate. It's also
the type of person like I think T Higgins is
remarkably popular because yes, he's a terrific player, but I
think folks have watched the last couple of years play

(01:26:34):
out and looked at a guy who has not allowed
the business to get in the way of his preparation,
his productivity, his willingness to play hurt. He was on
the Intro report late last week. He showed up to
training camp on time, and you might say, well, that's
not that big of a deal. We all assumed he
was going to sign his tag late show up sometime
in late August. He came day one sign the thing

(01:26:56):
in June has kind of dismissed the idea that he's
going to make busy and his decisions. He's talked openly about, like, dude,
if the worst thing that can happen to me is
I make twenty one point eight million dollars to play
football this year, that's really like, are there are players
that you want to build around, but there are also
people I think tease both.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
Yeah. I think even more so the fact that he
was drafted here he was producing and instead of taking
the next step in the hierarchy. They drafted a guy
to be the guy m hm and the ability to say, Okay,
I'm gonna work with him, We're gonna make this work.
Their relationship is close. He's close with Joe. He is

(01:27:36):
a true team first guy, not the individual. You know,
he's not pounding the table. I want more balls, I
want more targets. Why am I not getting this? Shows up?
Does his work gets it done? Yeah? And that's someone
you want on your team. That's someone you want in
the building. That's someone you want to build around as
one of those, as Burrow said, those guys that are

(01:27:57):
all in those cornerstone guys, that's one you're letting on.
One of those walk out the building.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
And with the season hanging in the balance, Joe Burrow
threw to T Higgins, that doesn't mean Tea's better than Jamar.
Chase Jam's better player, Jamars's best wide receiver in the
sports this year. Jamar is an a lister, clear cut
number one. But with the season hanging in the balance,
where did.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
The ball go?

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
It's T Higgins three different times.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
That is a statement about the importance of this guy
to our team.

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
And it was the way in which you envisioned t
being so important. One of the best, if not the
best cover guys in the league is on Jamar Chase,
which means he might not have his dominant he still
had a great game, might not have as dominant a game.
That doesn't mean they're they're limited because there's t Higgins.
How many teams, and we've talked about it with the Bengals,
how many teams have two of those guys? You can't

(01:28:49):
corners are hard enough to come by. Quarter ones. Lockdown
guys are hard enough to come by, and certain by
all accounts, as one of them. They had no answer.
And if Riley mal said he sometimes you get got
he got got all, I got a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
There's also something about the prized employee who says I
need this and then offers a way to help get
it done.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
YEP.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
So if we are going to operate under the assumption,
and it's just an assumption that Joe has said, like,
all right, let's restructure my deal, It's one thing to
say I want this. It's something else to say, hey,
we need this and I'll sacrifice. I'll figure out a
way to help make it happen. If he does that,
and you still don't.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
I think that's a problem.

Speaker 4 (01:29:34):
I don't know how. I don't know how a relationship
isn't fractured in any way if you don't do that. Yeah,
I mean much you want to talk about if you're
getting paid a lot of money, go play. He's not
requesting a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
He's not.

Speaker 4 (01:29:47):
Again, he could very easily say, man, I'm frustrated. I've
been getting hit way too much. We better address this.
He could have also done it privately. He could went
behind closed doors and said I want tea here. He didn't.
There's a method to that, and there's a reason why.
It's because he wanted this pressure to be put on
and if he wanted these conversations right now to be

(01:30:08):
happening to know. By the way, yeah, his guy just
caught three of them in a must win game with
your season on the line.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
And there's also, you know, there's there's something about lobbying
for a guy who you've told everybody you need and
they say no, we're not gonna do it, and you're
open minded about okay, well, then what's planned? B If

(01:30:35):
we're not gonna sign t what are you gonna do
with that money?

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
What are you gonna do? With his roster spot. What
are you gonna do with his position?

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
And if it works long term, okay, find Joe's happy.

Speaker 3 (01:30:47):
You run the risk man.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
And this is a concern given their track record building
the roster the way they had the last couple of years.
You tell Joe no, and he goes, okay, well, let's
see what you have in mind. And then in a
year we're still talking about bad defense, bad old line yep,
and now one target you still haven't figured out a
way to replace T Higgins.

Speaker 4 (01:31:07):
Yep, and probably another bad defense or below average defense.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
It's just like, it's one thing if you say, Joe,
we are moving on from T. Here's our plan, and
the plan works fine, But if you're gonna move on
from him, if you're gonna move on from a very
good player who's been a part of your team's fabric,
has been a part of winning, has been the consummate
prol and you don't just butcher his exit, but butcher

(01:31:31):
what you do with what you would pay him. The
fallout from that can be.

Speaker 4 (01:31:35):
Incredible, devastating, devastating for the organization going forward, not just
for another year, but Joe Burrow's tenure here that that
completely puts those those those sides at odds instead of
you know what, I respect the way you did it.
I respect and understand why. And it's not something he's
always doing. He's not using his power in a way

(01:31:57):
that all this this doesn't happen. Then I'm gonna do this.
Just said, I need him here. If we want to
accomplish what we need to do, I need that guy
as a part of it. And if not, then you
run the risk of Now how much more amplified is
it if you if you ruin an MVP season and
then you don't bring back the one guy he said
he wants. How are those meetings? How is that culture

(01:32:19):
in the locker room? How's that relationship went? On? Fourth
and one? Zach has him turned around and hand the
ball off. It's just you're setting yourself up for a
lot of problems if you don't find a way to
make it work.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Yeah, I just I taking the consideration here what we've
come to know about Joe Burrow. This is not somebody
who's constantly banging on the table publicly. What Joe did
stood out because it was an exception, and I would
think awfully, awfully hard about going counter to that exception.

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
Yeah, I just I think and as we've said, he's
so calculated everything that he does, and I don't want
to to go down a path of and angry Joe
Burrow at your organization. You know, at the root of this,
if you want to play that game, probably should have
got the t deal done a couple of years ago

(01:33:12):
when it would have been team friendly, as they should
have got the Jamar Chase deal done at the start
of this year, as they looking back, should have got
the Jesse Bates. You can, as a franchise continue to
go down this path of a few years from now
saying they should have got Teased deal done as we're
doing with Jesse Bates on a weekly basis or a
yearly basis. Man should have paid Jesse Bates. You know,

(01:33:32):
Chase Brown's gonna be that guy in a year or two.
Better get a deal done with Chase Brown before that
value gets too high. And you're already now paying for
the ramifications of not getting Andrew Whitworth back. I'm not
getting Jesse Bates back. You know, I don't want to
know what that path looks like, and now what you've
already cost yourself because you didn't get the Jamar Chase

(01:33:52):
deal done because you couldn't come to an agreement on
guaranteed money.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
All Right, I have a probably weird, bizarre theory about
Joe Burrow's post touchdown celebration.

Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
Okay, I'll run it past the gritty. I'm back the gritty.
That's next.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
Eighteen minutes after five o'clock, Tony and mo Football Show
Here at Twin Peaks in Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
He's football Inninnetti run to you in part by blend
Light and by Skyline Shiley on the official home of
the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
Twenty three minutes after five times, This is the Tony
and Moo Football Show with Swift Peaks and Florence on
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
Paul Egar with Tony Pike.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Will do some college football playoff stuff coming up in
just about ten minutes. We spent a lot of time
in the first hour talking about Zach Taylor's game management.

Speaker 4 (01:34:50):
At the end of regulation master class, Uh, that was
not a.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Chess match between Zach Taylor and Sean Payton. Bengals do
survive and so it becomes maybe not so much a footnote,
but it's not the lead story. At the same time,
it was bewildering. I have a small theory. So Joe
Burrow scores the touchdown yeah, and then stands there in
the end zone and has this weird expression slash body language,

(01:35:18):
and the entire stadium's kind of holding its breath. What's
Joe going to do? And he eventually does the gritty
and we all have a good laugh. Yeah, you know
what I think he was doing in that moment before
he broke into dance, wondering why didn't I take a knee?

Speaker 4 (01:35:34):
I think so. I was wondering because I just haven't
seen much of it. I was shocked that he snuffed
the ball.

Speaker 3 (01:35:40):
We haven't seen that, I think this year, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:35:42):
You know, I uh. I still don't understand the logic,
and someone on social media tried to help us, like,
we don't understand the logic. But the math is the math.
If they don't run the ball with Chase Brown on
first down, Chase Brown doesn't get hurt, there's no injury
time out. The mathematics forty seconds on the play clock.

(01:36:03):
If you take two or three seconds to take a knee.
Then what I think I saw was twenty to twenty
two seconds. Yeah, with a three point lead and the
opponent having no timeouts.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and borrow here from the
esteemed football expert hubs from Barstool's p Yes, because say
what you one about Barstool, This is the guy who
did the math. Okay, he ran through the scenario, and
I'm gonna lift it. Okay, So buck thirty nine to
go is ninety nine seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
Play clock is forty seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Yes, it's first and goal with the six, which is
the play where Chase Brown ran to the right, was
instructed to go down but got hurt. First and goal
with the six kneel down. Roughly three seconds come off
the clock. Denver calls the time out. There last one
thirty six to go. So now theoretically it second and

(01:37:00):
goal at the eight. You take another meal down. The
clock keeps moving the three seconds for the play full
play clock runs. You're down too. Now he makes a
pinpoint fifty three. Sure somewhere run put it at fifty five. Yep,
you're under sixty seconds to go. Under a minute. Denver
cannot stop the clock. It's now third and goal from

(01:37:23):
the ten. You're taking me. The play clock continues to go.
You get it down to ten seconds, you get your
kicker on the field, yep, at about the balls at
about the twelve yard line, So it's about a twenty
nine yard kick. Not again, Kate Yorke would miss one
and overtime. But it's still you're you're lining up for
roughly a twenty nine three yard field goal with about

(01:37:46):
seven seconds to go. This isn't hard to figure out.

Speaker 4 (01:37:50):
Nope. A team would have no timeouts, they would have
set you had to run a trick play, Yeah, you would.

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
You would kick with let's just say ten seconds to go.

Speaker 4 (01:38:00):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
Uh, you have time to let the ensuing kickoff go
into the end zone and maybe throw a hell Mary.

Speaker 4 (01:38:08):
Yep right, yeah, from seventy five yards west. Yes, it's
not rocket science. Isn't hard. I don't understand the thought
process or the lack of thought process that goes into this.
And Zach Taylor, he messed himself up in saying I
told Chase Brown not to score. Mm hm, why are

(01:38:30):
you handing the ball? Look, you got to take the snap,
You got to turn around. You gotta have a clean
hand off. You gotta hope that one of your guards
who's not very good, doesn't allow a player to get
through and interrupt the handoff. You gotta hope that the
one running back doesn't fumble when getting hit on the handoff,
or get hurt. All of those things have to happen
instead of just snap backpedal me. Make it make sense.

(01:38:52):
Do you know how I knew that it wasn't gonna
be good for K York. You were at the game.
Did you watch what happened at halftime of the game? No? Oh,
Shane Graham. Shane Graham went out barefoot and he paraded
around him. He went barefoot, he rolled the jeans up yep,
and he had about two field goal attempts that looked
like me or you trying to kick the ball. At
that point, I was like, it's just something with the

(01:39:13):
turf tonight. Don't try to make the kick.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
What do you think Shane's blood alcohol level was?

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
Oh? Man, I can't imagine it was healthy. Just asking. Yeah. No,
they gave him the second chance, and the second chance
was worse than the first.

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
Why was he barefoot? I don't know. I haven't seen,
but here's my thing.

Speaker 4 (01:39:37):
If you're going to go out there and put yours,
because he was obviously asked would you do this if
you're gonna say yes, just like were a cleat, because
the seconds someone you go barefoot, you're you're setting out
the message and you know what you're doing. When you
go barefoot and missed two miserably bad look special teams

(01:39:57):
as a whole stinks in the city of Cincinnati. So
cats stunk. Former players for the Bengals stink.

Speaker 3 (01:40:03):
Not the pizza kid last week, though.

Speaker 4 (01:40:05):
No sign him up. He could have made that. He's
also wondering why they didn't take knee.

Speaker 3 (01:40:11):
By the way, the kid, you are snap and hold,
We're clean.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
Yes, yeah, I've seen attempts to blame the the operation.

Speaker 4 (01:40:19):
Yeah, that's a thirty three yard kick man, it's a
chip shot thicker maker. That is honestly an an NBA
player shooting a free throw. That's what that's supposed to be.
The percentages should be.

Speaker 3 (01:40:31):
That high higher than that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:33):
Yeah, what depends what team shooting the free throw? Very
true or what player? Dylan Mitchell, you figured it out.

Speaker 3 (01:40:42):
He figured it out, figured it out, He lets it
slow it down.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
He looks good at the free throw line. He has
slowed it down. He's been pretty good. He's gonna make
a couple of big ones tonight. Yes, how you feel
about that game tonight, boy Cats v.

Speaker 4 (01:40:53):
Wildcats? I oddly feel good. I feel worse after talking
to Chad Brundle about it. Yeah, Kansas State disappointing non
conference bad losses. They've lost to Drake and Team Saint
John's crushed them. Yeah, UCLA beat them up, or UCLA
beat Arizona. I'm sorry. It's a team. And you said

(01:41:17):
that's beginning of the show. If the bear Cats are
to be taken serious as a contender this year in
the Big Twelve or the nca Tournament, these are games
you go and win very rarely are you going to
be a favorite on the road in the Big twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:41:28):
So we've talked about UC being an NCAA Tournament team, right, not.

Speaker 3 (01:41:33):
First four, right last four in a sneak in last four.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
But like we've talked about them, like in in mid February,
we're wondering what their seed is going to be, right, right,
That doesn't happen if it's well they go ten and
ten in the Big twelve or nine and eleven in
the Big Twelve, or like if if this is how
we're talking about them now, and it's how I hope
we are, you go on the road as favorites and

(01:41:58):
you get this one. Now, they've got to shoot the
ball better than they have I still believe they're a
better shooting team than they have shown. But you and
I were doing this before the show. It's like, boy,
just you know, get to two and two. I kind
of want better because we talked about them doing more
than just fitting in the Big Twelve. We talked about
them being a factor. A team that's a factor wins

(01:42:20):
this game tonight, and then they followed up at home
and went on Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
Yep, they will be favored Saturday, their favorite tonight. Yeah,
you know, I did it today on the show with Chad.
You know, for me, at minimum, they're two and two
after four games. That's the minimum one in three, zero
to four disaster. Right, And what Wes did? He did
what he had to do in the non conference. You
had to beat Xavier, had to beat Dayton. They did that.

(01:42:46):
They built themselves a little equity. What did this team
struggle with last year? Close games in the Big Twelve?
Multiple games if they had won that they didn't get done,
and then in March, what were we doing same thing
we're doing with the Bengals. Had they just beat that team,
had they just held on against Texas, had they beat
a short handed Oklahoma team at home, had they beat
West Virginia, then we're talking about a team that can

(01:43:06):
make the NCAA tournament. Instead, it's the what ifs For
the Cincinnati Bearcats. You don't want to live like that.
And there was a little bit of pressure too with Wes. Yeah,
to go win games you're supposed to win, and tonight
is a game that you were supposed to win.

Speaker 2 (01:43:20):
If you're the Cincinnati Bearcats, they play twenty Big twelve games.
The idea, look, can they win the league? Can A
guess no. The idea is to finish better than five
hundred in the league. So you gotta win your home games.
Not that they're not gonna have a hiccup or two,
but you gotta win your home games. They were not
great at home in league played last year, and you've
got to win games like this.

Speaker 4 (01:43:41):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:43:42):
For me, the goal is if there are a twelve
and eight Big.

Speaker 4 (01:43:44):
East team, sign me up. Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:43:46):
Then I think you're in the tournament with.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
Relative ease, shy of that, like I don't want to
sweat out the last two weeks. No, we talked about like, well,
they got to make the tournament this year. I want
to spend the three weeks leading up the Selection Sunday
wondering what's their dealing ceed wise, and if they lose
a game or two, they've got enough cushion that they're
still gonna have their name called on Selection Sunday.

Speaker 3 (01:44:08):
The way you do that is winning games like this
one tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:44:11):
You also, you don't want to set yourself up for
Saturday feeling like a must win because of tonight. You
want to start like the mental of starting two to
zero the big twelve verse one and one or zero
two is huge. Yep. You know, then you start having
a different conversation about this team, because you know, if
you're Kansas State, what's the message right now? Terrible non

(01:44:34):
conference come out tonight with a top twenty team coming in.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
And change it and get our season in Arizona.

Speaker 4 (01:44:38):
Get your season back on track, which means what the
two teams you're gonna be playing the next two backs
against the wall are gonna give you every like you
have the target on your back. This is what you wanted, right,
You're not going and trying to sneak up on somebody.
The target's on your back. You're gonna get opponents best
now because you got the high ranking. You're the team
that people are gunning for. You better go up and

(01:45:00):
answer the bell for that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
They're twentieth in the net so in the metric that
matters most, they're a top twenty team. Right, Kansas State
is not even close Ken Palm number twenty two. If
those rankings are legitimate, you get this, you get Arizona,
and then you've built in a little bit of cushion

(01:45:23):
for going on the road for Baylor. Okay, playing that's
house funny. But and then Kansas is in your building.
You're supposed to win these two. We'll see if they
do happen. We'll talk some college football when we come back.
It's The Tony and Mo Football Show Twin Peaks in
Florence on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
You've been listening to football in THENNETTI on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Sports Headlines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of
Lifetime Power Dream Protection and hearantee credit approval from their
famis for Life Kelsey chef dot Com. Bengals plays Sheldon
Rankins on the reserve Non football Illness List. My guess
is he has played his final game as a Bengal.
Bengals and Steelers on Saturday night. Mike Tomlin said he

(01:46:14):
has no plans, hasn't even thought about not playing his
starters now that game on Saturday, the division title could
be decided. By the time the Bengals and Steelers play
Ravens square off against the Ravens at Baltimore. Wins, they
win the AFC North. Obviously, if Cleveland pulls off an upset,
which is almost inconceivable, then Pittsburgh wins, they win the

(01:46:36):
AFC North, but they would still need to lock in
the five seed even if the division title has been decided.
So the expectation is Pittsburgh will play their main guys.
Andy Reid noncommittal when asked about whether or not his
starters will play on Sunday when the Chiefs take on
the Denver Broncos. Cincinnati needs a Kansas City win, also

(01:46:57):
need a New York Jets victory on top of beating
the Steelers on Saturday night. That game at eight o'clock
is on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game coverage starts at
four pm.

Speaker 4 (01:47:05):
Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
It's the Lions and forty nine Ers on.

Speaker 3 (01:47:09):
Monday Night football.

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
College basketball Tonight, you see up to sixteenth in the
AP Top twenty five pole. Bearcats on the road against
Kansas State tip off at seven on seven hundred WLW.
Miami battles Defiance Tonight, Kentucky's tenth in the AP Pole, eleventh.

Speaker 4 (01:47:24):
And the Coach's Poll.

Speaker 2 (01:47:25):
The Mark Polk Show will be at six pm on
Fox Sports thirteen sixty.

Speaker 4 (01:47:34):
You and I thought, was we haven't touched on today.
What's one of the important stats from the game? Forty
two minutes of ball possession from the offense. Yeah, like
much we talk about the defensive shortcomings. One way to
help that is possessing. I think so many times in
football you get caught in thinking high powered offenses they
got to go score fast. I thought they did a
good job of time management, working the clock until the

(01:47:57):
end of the game, until the end of the game,
working the clock, snapping the ball after you know, a
couple seconds on the play clock. Yeah, but I thought
it was a I thought it was an effort that
they focused on to say, Okay, we know that our
defense isn't great. And I think so many circled Denver
because it was the first competent quarterback they had played
in four weeks. Yeah, And I thought by keeping them

(01:48:18):
out of rhythm a little bit, by keeping them off
the field, I think that helped a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
I if you go back and look the first five drives,
four of them were at least eleven plays, one of
them was seventeen. And so yeah, ball control, Yeah, was
a terrific A couple of things really quick.

Speaker 3 (01:48:34):
With the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
You know that the Giants helped out the cause yesterday by.

Speaker 4 (01:48:38):
Winning at home and what are they doing? True luck.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
But here's the thing, So I didn't realize I followed
or had in my my ASTs so many Giants fans.
There seems to be a lot of people who don't
understand that NFL players are going to play hard.

Speaker 4 (01:48:56):
Huh, right, shocking.

Speaker 2 (01:48:58):
Like even the Browns, the Browns organization might be tanking.
You could argue they've been tanking since before the season started.
Miles Garrett was playing his heart out yesterday.

Speaker 4 (01:49:07):
Yeah, there are Browns.

Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
Players, especially on defense, playing with effort with the Giants specifically,
the fans are upset while we screwed up our chances
at getting the number one overall pick, we're now we're
still going to be in quarterback purgatory.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
I know, I don't know if the quarterback classes that
good anyway. Guess thinks NFL players care too much.

Speaker 2 (01:49:28):
They're not going to not try to win even if
you put bad ones out there. It's why I have
at least hope that the Chiefs will be competitive against Denver.
You're not going to put National Football League players on
the field and tell them to not try.

Speaker 4 (01:49:44):
You know, in today's NFL, you know there's the photo
going around of Baker Mayfield playing scout team for the
Carolina Panthers. There was a point where Baker Mayfield and
Sam Darnol Moore on the Panthers they were terrible, and
now yesterday over seven hundred fifty YAR or d eight
touchdowns combined between him. They're right behind Joe Burrow and
statistical categories in the NFL. If you're the Giants, I

(01:50:07):
don't know if I'm rocking with cam Ward, I don't
know if I'm rocking with the door Sanders. Yeah, could
Drew Lock be the type of I'm not saying he's
at that level of Donald? Yeah? Could that be a
guy you say, let's give this guy a legitimate chance
to be a quarterback for a year, be a bridge guy,
and then we'll attack next year.

Speaker 3 (01:50:25):
The question is who's gonna coach him?

Speaker 4 (01:50:27):
Sure? Is it Dable? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
And if you're a Dable and you're brought back, what
do you yeah, like, do you have time right to.

Speaker 4 (01:50:35):
Hit your wagon and Drew Lock? Sure?

Speaker 2 (01:50:37):
But I watched that whole game yesterday. You're looking at
his ass like that's an NFL quarterback And I had
the same thought you did. Baker Mayfield found the right coaching.

Speaker 4 (01:50:44):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:50:45):
Now he's got a nine figure deal, Donald, Sam Donald
got the right coaching. Kevin O'Connell's awesome. Yep, Sam Donald.
I don't know what he's gonna play next year. Maybe
it's a Minnesota dude's gonna get paid like they have
their quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:50:58):
Drew Lock, Yep, right coach stable, the right coach.

Speaker 4 (01:51:02):
Yeah, it's a good question.

Speaker 3 (01:51:04):
College football playoffs, do you.

Speaker 4 (01:51:07):
Skim over the big College football news Yeah, the Strawberry
pop Tart bowl came back. The strawberry he came back.
It's pop. I was very very happy to see. That
was awesome to see. And Miami won the Snoop Dogg. Yeah,
Chill Martin was riding off with with Snoop Dogg. Pretty cool.
That was pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
That was pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (01:51:21):
Cam Ord played a good half. How do you feel
about what he did? I understand the business side of it.
I think of the teammates side of it and how
hard it is because you had so many guys that
that was our last game and he kind of quit
on him. But I understand the business side of it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
That's to me, unfortunately reflective of the era we're in,
which I mostly like.

Speaker 3 (01:51:42):
Yeah, but that part I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:51:44):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
I just if i'm him, I have a hard time
looking at my teammates in the eye.

Speaker 4 (01:51:49):
Right, he won't have too much No, but he's on
his way.

Speaker 2 (01:51:53):
I'd have a hard time level with myself. Yeah, easy
for me to say different. I get it, but I
didn't like him.

Speaker 4 (01:52:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
Do you notice a lack of buzz for these four games?

Speaker 4 (01:52:05):
This? Yes? Like this is what we all wanted, right, Yeah,
and and and The crazy thing is it's not weekend
where you're competing. It's midweek, right right, Like saying alone
anybody else.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
But like this is what we all wanted, and yet
it feels like everybody's kind of shrugging their.

Speaker 4 (01:52:19):
Shoulders because outside of Ohio State organ it feels like
three games that could get out of hand.

Speaker 2 (01:52:23):
Yeah, so big numbers Boise State, Penn State, Texas and
Arizona State. Of the two big dogs, which one has
the better chance of an upset?

Speaker 4 (01:52:34):
I think Arizona State has more than just a running back,
even though their running back is really good in kN Katabu,
I think they they have a lot to prove. I
think Boise plays a lesser opponent. I don't think Penn
State's as good as Texas, but I think Arizona State.
I think they're more tested from a regular season standpoint,
I think they have a better chance of winning.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
What I worry about with Arizona State is if they
have to play from behind.

Speaker 3 (01:52:59):
Yeah, but what they're good at is not turning it over.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
Texas is the worst of the eight remaining teams in
turnover with yeah, So if Arizona State can continue that.

Speaker 4 (01:53:09):
And if they win that's another option. Scott's suderfield spelt
one and oh against yep college football playoff teams.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
Is the winner of Ohio State and Oregon the national champion.

Speaker 4 (01:53:19):
I think so. I think so, And you know, I've
been back and forth, and I thought Chad Brenda said
it well today there's so many people big mad right
that I can't believe this is a quarterfinal game. Beat Michigan. Yeah,
just beat Michigan, right, and you wouldn't be in this game.

Speaker 3 (01:53:37):
Beat a very mediocre Michigan.

Speaker 4 (01:53:39):
He's an awful team, yes, and you would not be
in this position. I hate the fact, well, they're playing
each other and they're the two best teams. Beat Michigan
at home. That's it. Yes, and then you're a five
or a four or you know, your your path is
a lot easier than what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
Yeah, I mean, I'm all in favor of receding after
the first round. You're playing Oregon on a neutral field.

Speaker 4 (01:54:01):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
You're Ohio State, who looked awesome the first weekend of
the playoff.

Speaker 4 (01:54:06):
Did it to yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
Most of the season looked like the best or second
best team in the country, at least like you're right,
beat a bad Michigan team in your.

Speaker 4 (01:54:13):
Own building, Yep, you don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 2 (01:54:16):
I think Notre Dame Georgia is the hardest of these
four games to handicap.

Speaker 4 (01:54:20):
Yeah, it's it's Georgia because it's without Carson Beck. But
I thought they played well in the second half without
Carson Beck against Texas, and I thought from a physical standpoint,
Notre Dame was very impressive. Yeah, in their Round one
win against Indiana and uh, Kurt Signetti.

Speaker 2 (01:54:37):
I just hope we don't have more blowouts.

Speaker 4 (01:54:40):
Yep. They need good games. Well.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
Also, we had blowouts in the first round, and people
pretend to like we don't have blowouts in the other players,
like there's no blowouts in the NCAA tournament. Yep, there's
no blowouts in the NFL playoff.

Speaker 4 (01:54:51):
Competitive games would be fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:54:52):
We don't have sweeps in the NBA or baseball or hockey,
like pretend to like in the college football is the
only sport in the playoffs we have blowouts.

Speaker 4 (01:54:59):
Right, happens every year.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
It is twelve minutes away from six o'clock.

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
Is it really? It has flown by?

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
It really has, really has.

Speaker 4 (01:55:09):
It's been a good day today. It's been a great day.

Speaker 2 (01:55:11):
The Antonia Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in Florence
on ESPN fifteen to thirty Cincinnati Sports Station one more
on my list of things before good Mike Hilton plays
well enough to make you think, God, you got to
bring him back.

Speaker 4 (01:55:26):
I don't think so. He has played well, but he's
I feel like towards the latter part of his career
from a standpoint of what you can get out of
him on the field. It's kind of been my biggest
fear as this run goes on, of talking ourselves into
defensive players that for much of the season weren't good
enough and now all of a sudden, yeah, let's run
it back with that. I just I'm trying not to

(01:55:47):
allow myself to buy into that of well, you know,
nine to eight and they played better the last five,
maybe they don't need to make the wholesale changes going forward.
That's not what I want.

Speaker 3 (01:55:59):
Yeah, I think Mike Hilton's played really well.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
I don't feel like he's an ascending player, and I
feel like his best years are behind and I want
to see I'm not interested in guys like that, and
I want to see against what they're going to need
to beat his elite offenses. And I don't think Denver
is an elite offense right now, and I don't think
the other wins were against elite offenses or quarterbacks.

Speaker 4 (01:56:19):
At this point, Denver was underwhelming. Very I can't I
can't understand why Denver didn't run the ball more. Yeah,
almost seven yards of cary from a gloftin why not
run it more?

Speaker 3 (01:56:31):
Well, I don't have that answer for you, and we
have to go.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
Okay, back in Westchester next week, go Bearcats. Thanks to
the staff here at Bengals Twin Peaks in Florence tomorrow,
Drew Wester Heidi for nursing and Kenwood and our guy
Mike Mills. I just met Mike's granddaughter. Drew's got the
LaSalle Lancers tomorrow. His flyers got the Lancers.

Speaker 3 (01:56:50):
Lancers.

Speaker 2 (01:56:51):
We're done. Have a great night, Happy New Year. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Mo Egger News

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Tony and Mo Football Show -- 12/30/24

Episode Transcript

Mo Egger News .css-1q01m3q{margin:0 0 -2px 0;}

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes