1/8/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Dave Lapplock and you're listening to the Home
of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
All right, what's up. Good afternoon on Moregar. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you so much for listening. It
is weird to be here back in studio. If you
take all the shows we have done out at Twin
Peaks and Buffalo Wild Wings and then tossing the holidays
and being here and I did the show for my

(00:25):
house on Monday, I feel like I haven't been in
here in like two months. But here we are. It
is good to be here. Thrilled to have you with us.
Get a show preview on my x feed at moegar.
Thanks to my friends at Emory Federal Credit Union, your
credit union with hard since nineteen thirty nine. Go to
EMERYFCU dot org. We have a lot of ground to cover.

(00:50):
I got here earlier today. I started to map out
the show and the original plan was to start the
show by talking college basketball, and we are gonna talk
a lot of college basketball today. Unfortunately, nobody won last night,
and not to remove Kentucky from the equation on purpose,

(01:12):
the Wildcats had a bad night. They have a good team.
The bear Cats had a bad night last night. I
don't know how good their team is. Xavier had a
bad night last night. I think there are some things
I know about Sean Miller's team. This was a deeply
frustrating evening for both. It has been a deeply frustrating

(01:32):
last couple of weeks for both. And we are going
to talk about both. You're gonna hear from Wes, You're
gonna hear from Sean, And because it's Wednesday, we're gonna
chat with our buddy Rick Boring coming up in just
about forty minutes on both Xavier and NKU basketball. The
North have a game tonight against Youngstown State. That was

(01:53):
my original plan and it's still a big part of
my plan today. But I guess I have a bit
of a sports talk radio obligation to react to the
news of the moment, which involves, unfortunately, yet again, Jermaine Burton,
this time for reasons that have very little to do
with football. Tony mentioned this. You can go read this

(02:15):
if you want at Cincinnati dot Com. Kelsey Conway doing
the reporting, the outstanding beat writer for the inquiry covering
the Bengals. Sorry, in the background, you just heard a
camera fall. Jermaine Burton was accused of assault, but no
charges were filed as a result of the alleged incident.

(02:36):
And I don't I don't want to read all of
Kelsey's work here because that's not fair. But I will
get into will I will get into some of the
nuts and bolts of of what's being reported here. It
obviously has not been a good rookie season on the
field or off for Jermaine Burton, and we've talked about him,

(02:59):
probably more than he really deserves to be talked about.
But what is being reported today has nothing to do
with football, so I'll read the particulars here. An assault
was reported the morning of December thirtieth, just days before
the Cincinnati Bengals nixed Burton from traveling with the team
to Pittsburgh. The Inquirer also learned that Burton is facing

(03:20):
eviction from his apartment at the Banks. Those proceedings started
December seventeenth. Now, a lot of this had circulated on
social media, Kelsey continues. The Bengals did not say why
Burton did not travel, other than stating it was coach's decision,
raising questions about why and prompting the Inquirer to make
a public records request for information related to Burton. The

(03:41):
two reports and a recording of a nine to one
to one call the woman made, were released on Wednesday morning.
Uh The woman who called the police declined to comment.
Reports show Burton and the woman met in September and
dated on and off in the month prior to the
alleged assault, who had been out together and argued before

(04:01):
the incident in the woman's Oakley neighborhood apartment. Reports show
after the night out, police were called and the woman
said Burton met her her apartment, chased her inside, damaged
her phone, and assaulted her, including choking her. The caller said,
before leaving, Burton held a knife to his neck and
threatened to kill himself. The woman, who was nineteen, called
police for help at around eight forty five am. On

(04:24):
the call, the woman is heard sobbing heavily. Quote Jermaine
Burton on the Bengals just broke into my house. He
broke my phone, She added, quote He's been like pretty abusive.
He does a lot of things that I don't tolerate.
She said they had been out the night before when
he got mad at her quote, he was yelling at
me in the car, and he was screaming at me
and saying things. They parted ways, and when she got home,

(04:46):
Burton was waiting for her. Quote. He wouldn't let me
go inside, and he choked me in the hallway. He
blocked the door so I couldn't go inside, and when
I did go inside, he chased me upstairs. He broke
into my house. He broke my phone. This is the
second time he has broken my phone in the past month.
He broke my phone. He hit me, and he left.

(05:08):
She told the nine to one to one call taker. Quote,
he said he was going to kill himself. He's a narcissist,
He's a manipulator. Quote. He got a my dishwasher and
he grabbed the knife and held it to my neck,
or held it to his neck. She said, quote. I
don't effing deserve this. I'm only nineteen. When police arrived,
Burton was already gone. The woman, whose names were adapted
from police reports, told officers much of what she told

(05:28):
the call taker. She suffered minor injuries but did not
need medical attention. According to the report. An investigator said
Burton is suspected of having used alcohol and stated force
was involved. According to the report, the woman initially said
she wanted a file charges, but then changed her mind.
Go read the rest if you please at Cincinnati magaz
or Cincinnati dot Com. There you go, Kelsey Conway doing

(05:50):
the reporting. Uh, I don't know if there's a topic
here because who wanted Jermaine Burton here next year? Anyway, Now,
off the field and away from football, you might be
asking questions about, well, why do not the woman file charges?
What specifically happened here? What's Jermaine going to say? I

(06:12):
don't know. Here's what I know that from the jump.
This just hasn't worked right. This just Jermaine Burton made
a splash in the Bengals first preseason game against the
Buccaneers where he gets on the field in the fourth
quarter and he plays great. But the story isn't that
he played great. The story is that he played when

(06:33):
he did against dudes who probably didn't make the NFL
because he was not reliable in training camp, not reliable
in meetings. It came out later during training camp or
during the preseason that Amazon broadcast where Al Michaels and
Kirk kurb Street speculated about whether or not, he was
sleeping during meetings. He's been a nose show, he has
shown up late, he has proven to be unreliable. Folks

(06:57):
on the internet, myself included, have had fun with images
of him him at a casino like this. This just
it hasn't worked. Maybe there were reasons to try it,
and those reasons where the dude is athletically very very gifted.
But if you can't rely on him, then it doesn't matter.
So I think most of us, at least I had,

(07:17):
I had made up my mind. I'd made up my
mind a while ago, like I'm good here. Let's just hey,
it didn't work, Jermaine, go figure it out elsewhere. If
that's in the NFL, fine, if it's outside the NFL, fine.
I wish for no one to not have success. But
we're running a big boy business here. We don't have
time for you to figure it out. We don't have
time for you to grow up, we don't have time

(07:38):
for you to be reliable. And now we don't have
time for you to not get involved in incidents where
nine to one one is being called right, like, this
isn't tough, this isn't let's just let's just move on. Here,
admit that it didn't work, acknowledge that it didn't work,
and figure out what's next and more importantly, moving forward,

(07:58):
let's not ignore some of the flags that were there
about Jermaine Burton. Now, were there red flags that would
suggest the guy is going to be choking his girlfriend? Maybe?
Maybe not, but there were at least at its most
gentle maturity concerns when it comes to Jermaine Burton. So
I guess there's two things here and I'm not sure
any either one are debatable. One is goodbye. See. I

(08:23):
felt that way yesterday. We talked about with Paul Dayner Jr.
We've discussed this for the better part of the season.
Like it just it has not worked. It didn't work
at the beginning, it didn't work at the end, it
didn't work in the middle. He was unreliable. Uh, he's
not growing up, he's not mature. Does he need help? Maybe?
And on the human side, I hope he gets it.

(08:47):
But that doesn't mean that he should have a job
with the Cincinnati Bengals next season. I don't know that
there's a topic there because I don't know how you
can make the case yes, keep this guy? Why Like
even if you want to side with talent, and I
largely will. If you want to side with talent, you
mean to tell me there's not somebody else like Jermaine

(09:08):
Burton you can get playing college football. Like, do you
watch college football? There's gonna be dudes playing this weekend
as good, if not better than Jermaine Burton. By the way,
the Bengals are also a really good at wide receiver,
especially if they have t Higgins next year. So let's
move on. I guess the larger topic is, and I
know I did this maybe two months ago. Moving forward,

(09:29):
we're only hiring adults. We're only hiring people who could
show up to work on time, who know what time
to be there, who can be counted on, who can
be rely on, relied on, adults can be counted on.
We're not in business. Well, you know what, maybe maybe
we can figure out how to get his alarm clock
to work, or maybe we can figure out how to

(09:49):
get him to get along with his girlfriend or like, no,
we're not doing that. We're hiring adults, and to the
Bengals credit, they've got a lot of them. Oh, Marius
Mems looks like an adult. Chase Brown drafted twenty twenty three.
Looks like an adult, plays like an adult, but behaves
like an adult. Chris Jenkins seems to be a guy
who gets it. They've got guys who get it. Jermaine

(10:10):
Burton does not. Let's go. Let's move on. Jermaine, go,
do what you gotta do, get the help you need,
figure it out, figure it out elsewhere. We're good here, right.
I don't I don't know that I have much more
to say about this other than it failed. It didn't work.
Let's move on. If you would like the chime in,

(10:30):
I guess five point three seven four nine, fifteen thirty.
The Jamaine Burton experiment did not work. It's okay to
admit something doesn't work. It's not okay to admit that
something doesn't work and keep trying to do the same
thing and then continue to pay for it. The Bengals
need more good players. They need more players they can

(10:52):
rely on. Jermaine Burton is not a player you can
rely on. Jermaine Burton is not a person you can
rely on. This isn't high school football, This isn't a
charitable organization. This is a National Football League franchise. This
is big business. It's fun in games, but it's big business,

(11:15):
lots of stake for this franchise in twenty twenty five.
I can't have anybody I can't rely on. Jermaine Burton
is somebody who can't rely on felt that way yesterday,
felt that way in October. Maybe what we have found
out today is merely confirmation of that something we already knew.
You can hit me up on x at moegor thanks

(11:37):
to our friends at Delta Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy,
smart night communities for all. Good to Delta Dental, oh
dot com. We'll have some pole questions coming up in
just a bit. Other Bengals stuff will get to today
includes what Travis Kelcey had to say about the suggestion
the Chiefs were afraid of the Bengals on Sunday. I
agree with what he had to say. I've got to

(11:59):
take on that. And you know, a lot of interesting
stuff's gonna happen with the Bengals this offseason. One of
the most interesting things is what they do with the
player who is coming off a Pro Bowl, All Pro
caliber season, potentially an award winning season, who has a
year left on his contract, and I'm sure wants to
get paid. I am not talking about Jamar Chase. Chances

(12:22):
are you know who I'm referencing. We'll do that a
little bit later on. We'll hear from Gavin lux Rick
Boring on the Musketeers coming up at three forty five,
and we have the executive producer of NFL Films joining
us at four h five h Sean Miller called last
night a low point. He was speaking about the Musketeers.
He could have been referencing the Bearcats. We'll talk about

(12:44):
both next on ESPN fifteen thirty. Anything you might have
missed on this show, or for that Matterson C three sixty,
go find on the iHeartRadio app. If you missed the
Tony and Moo Football show this week? What were you doing?
You weren't working, weren't out? What were you doing? You
couldn't sit at home and listen to our show? Good
news is it's on the iHeartRadio app. Same for yesterday's show,

(13:06):
including a lot of really good stuff with our guy,
Paul Dayner Junior. Podcasts of this show are a service
of long neck sports. Girl. You know, we are getting
set for five consecutive days of playoff football, assuming the
weather in Dallas cooperates and they play the second semi
final on Friday night. Five straight days of playoff football.
That's five straight days at Long Necks, three different locations,

(13:27):
Long Neck Sports Girl, Wilder, Hebron, and rich Wood. Sean
Miller referred to last night as a low point. He
was talking about the Musketeers. He could have been talking
about the Bearcats. We'll talk about both teams separately. We'll
talk about both programs separately, but this as a college
basketball fan of well, this area, this city specifically, I

(13:52):
think a lot of us felt like this was going
to be the year where things got back to normal,
and normal, at least for me, means you see and
Xavier being in the NCAA Tournament. Obviously, there have been
years where neither have made it. Way too many recently
there have been years where one has made it. But
I think it's a lot of fun when both make it.

(14:13):
I think it's great for college basketball in this town
when both are good in this felt like here where
things were going to get back to normal, which for me, again,
both teams are playing in March. Well, Xavier does not
have an NCAA tournament resume. Xavier doesn't look like an
NCAA tournament team. You could argue that Cincinnati's resume is better.

(14:36):
They don't look like an NCAA tournament team, And like
we'll discuss the fallout from neither making it. It's just
January eighth, so obviously both teams have a lot of time.
I'm frankly a little bit more interested in the basketball
part of this than i am bracketology or their resumes
or what the fallout is going to be. But if
things continue trending in the direction they're moving toward, then

(14:59):
we're gonna be talking about yet another year without UC
and Xavier in the NCAA Tournament. And we've done that
a lot recently. Since twenty eighteen, when Xavier was a
one seed, UC was a two seed, each school has
made one appearance. Now. Xavier made a run two years ago,

(15:21):
got to the Sweet sixteen. Cincinnati in twenty nineteen was
one and done. That's not supposed to be the case here,
and unfortunately, it feels like if you are being smart
with your money and wagering on whether or not one
or both is going to make it, it feels like
the smart money is on neither. With the Musketeers, we

(15:41):
have a I think a pretty damn large sample size
to suggest that this team is simply not very good.
Are there reasons for that beyond anybody's control like injury,
of course, but it is January. They have played five
Biggies games. I don't know how they beat the better

(16:03):
teams on their schedule. I don't know what they can
rely on. Here's Sean Miller after the game last night.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
I don't really have the answers to the test on that, Joe.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
I mean, they had.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
Fifty fifty rebounds, We had thirty. They had twenty second shot.
You know, our effort level, our physicality, the ability to
get a stop, to continue to play with force, you know,
to be able to do it for that forty minutes
is something that we don't have right now, and we
have to we have to get to the bottom of it.
If you look, I haven't seen too many stat sheets

(16:43):
with eighty one shot attempts at somebody. They had eighty
one shot attempts and there was no there was no
pushback or force at any point. I'd say maybe the
final ten minutes of the first half where we closed
the gap of a davy on McKnight really pushed the
pace did a good job, but we we didn't play

(17:07):
with nearly enough effort, nearly enough force, togetherness, all the
different things that you guys have watched here for many,
many years.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
So Xavier loses by ten at home last night to
a pretty good Saint John's team. You heard Sean kind
of go through the gory details of it. Up next
as a road tilt against a Paul and then home
for Villanova at Marquette at Saint John's, home for Yukon
at Creighton. By the way, Georgetown is better than you

(17:36):
might realize. That's their game after that here on the
fourth of February. How do they win those games? And
like plural matters here, because there are some that they
may win. But when you're nine and seven, you need
to start rattling off wins. You need a streak, you
need a run. Based on the way they're playing, based

(17:57):
on the way they're constructed, how's that going to happen?
As for the Bearcats offensively, you know, when they beat Xavier,
they didn't do it with great offense. And when they
beat Dayton, they didn't do it with great offense. And
you know, beneath the excitement over getting those victories and

(18:21):
the Catharsis that came with knocking off the Musketeers and
how much that game mattered to Wes Miller, and how
emotional it was for a lot of fans. But beneath that,
there was this subtext about the offense and you know,
this team offensively might not be as good as it
needs to be. Those were fears when they were winning. Well,

(18:45):
they have bubbled too well above the surface now that
they're losing. Bad offense against Kansas State, bad offense for
large stretches of the game against Arizona, bad offense last night.
I don't know how this gets better because they haven't
big good offensively now for a while. It doesn't feel
like there's a real alpha, doesn't feel like there's a

(19:07):
quote go to guy. Doesn't look right now like they
have anybody who can create offense, and the offense they're
running isn't creating opportunities for anybody. I don't know what
this offense is supposed to be. But up until last night,
for the most part, the thing you could cling to
was yes, but they have defended. They did not last night.

(19:32):
Here's Wes Miller.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
I don't know what choice you have because I guess
you do have two choices. You can either deal with
it the right way, which is to pay it absolutely
no mind and focus on what we gotta do, or
you can handle it the wrong way and let it
affect you. I can tell you what we're gonna do.
I'll tell everybody. You can say as many bad things
as you want about our team and our play and

(20:00):
our coaches, and see, you can say as many of
that stuff crap as you want on social media. I
ain't gonna listen to it. I got no time for
We're a good team. We've been a good team. We
will be a good team. So we're gonna get back
to work on doing all the things we have to
do to get back on track. We're gonna handle that
part the right way. We ain't gonna pay any damn
mine to it. And that's very difficult for young people

(20:22):
in twenty twenty four, with the cell phones and all
that stuff. But I got a really tough group of kids.
I got a high character group of kids. I got
no worries about that, all right.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
So two things. Number One, where was the toughness last night?
I didn't see it. Number Two, they might be a
good team when will that happen? They're zero to three
in the Big Twelve. They have a lot of time
left on their schedules, seventeen regular season games. Kansas comes
here on Saturday. You know, we did this with the

(20:53):
Bengals and have now for a couple of years wondering
about the beginning of the season and the losses early
hurting them late. My fear is all right, if you
believe Wes Miller that this is going to be a
good team, that may happen. By the time it does,
will it be too late. I'll tell you what was
deeply frustrating about last night to me. When we come back.

(21:14):
Sports head lines coming up, Rick Boring coming up in
fifteen minutes and the executive producer of NFL Films at
four five. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station,
Cincinnati's sports station. Sports Headlines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet,
home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from
their family to yours for life at kelseyshev dot com.

(21:38):
Let's start with the good Bengals news. Trey Hendrickson named
the AFC Defensive Player of the Week for his three
and a half sack performance against the Steelers on Saturday Night.
His sacks led all players in Week eighteen and tied
for the third most of the game by any player
this season. Two of his sacks came late in the
fourth quarter to health the Bengals seal that victory.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
UH.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
That's good. Trey Hendrickson in the running maybe to be
defensive player of the year. Here's the bad news. Bengals
wide receiver to remain. Burton, according to a story in
the Cincinnati Inquirer, has been accused or was accused of
assault for an alleged incident on December thirtieth. Reports indicate
that Burton and a woman that he met in September
had an altercation, and she said, to a nine to

(22:23):
one to one dispatcher quote, he hit me and he left.
The woman has not pressed any charges. College basketball Tonight,
MK you was at Youngstown State. That game can be
heard on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. The Mark Pope Show
is at six on ESPN fifteen thirty Dayton's at UMAs
tonight and the Cincinnati Cyclones on the road this evening

(22:43):
against Savannah.

Speaker 7 (22:45):
UH.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Our phone numbers are five point three, seven four nine
fifteen thirty and eight sixty six seven h two three
seven seven six. I guess the question that I have
for this season, it's it's January the eighth. Are these
seasons salvagable? And I can apply this to Uce? And
I could apply this to Xavier? I think I think

(23:10):
Xavier went into last night and not as good a
position to make the NCAA tournament as you see, neither
look like NCAA tournament teams right now. Bearcats are zero
to three. Kansas will come here on Saturday, you see,
will go on the road to play Colorado next week.
The Bearcats will be favored in neither based on what

(23:33):
you know about the league, based on having watched them
play a substantial chunk of their season, based on what
you know about the composition of the roster, based on
what you know about the coach in his fourth year?
Is this salvagible? Like, here's what's frustrating to me, And

(23:54):
maybe I'm the only person who feels this way as
a Bearcat fan. Go back to last season one of
the Big Twelve, a roller coaster at times deeply frustrating,
especially with Cincinnati's inability to win games at home, close
games at home. They were four and five in the
Big Twelve at fifth third. We knew this season that
had to be better. But I walked away from last

(24:15):
season feeling pretty good for two reasons. Number One, the
good players you wanted back all came back. And the
team that they were on last year, despite the roller coaster,
despite the frustrating moments, despite games that you could argue
and I did argue they should have won, they got
through their first season in what was, at least last year,

(24:37):
the best conference in the country. I don't think the
Big Twelve owns that title this year, but last year
the best conference in the country, and they fit in.
They lost eleven games in the regular season. They lost
one of them by more than ten points, an eighteen
point loss on the road against TCU, and that game

(24:57):
got out of hand late. UC was down four or
five with about thirteen minutes to go, and then things,
you know, kind of snowballed quickly and they got blown out.
They had a game against Iowa State where they were
getting rolled and ended up losing by nine. But for
the most part, if you watch UC basketball last year,
year one of the Big Twelve, at times deeply frustrating,
at times very encouraging, but you watched a team that
looked like a Big twelve team. There were no real blowouts,

(25:21):
there were no moments of pure sheer non competitiveness. Last night,
they were not competitive. And so I don't know. Again,
maybe this is just me, but if they were never
not competitive last year, then they're not supposed to be

(25:43):
not competitive this year. Like, at the very least this season,
did any of us believe they were gonna win the
Big Twelve title. No, some might not have believed they
could finish with and above five hundred record in the
Big Twelve. That was always gonna be really tough. Now
it feels, well, i'll put it gently, even more difficult.

(26:06):
Gotta go ten and seven the rest of the way,
and again Kansas comes to town on Saturday. But at
the very least, if they were never not competitive last
year and they had a better team this season, at
the very least, they were never gonna be not competitive.

(26:27):
Yet they were last night. Now, again, you could chalk
it up to one of those nights they were on
the road. They were on a road playing a team
without two of its guys they use in their rotation.
But okay, they were on the road. I guess whether
it was a factor getting them there cut into their prep.
Fine happens, you get blown out. Tony mentioned this to

(26:50):
me before we went on the air. Tennessee number one
team in the country, destroyed last night against Florida like
they weren't gonna go undefeated, and so nights like that happened. Okay, fine,
except much of what we saw last night was a
continuation of what we had seen for a couple of weeks.

(27:10):
They didn't play very well against Kansas State. Should have
won that game, did not. It wasn't so much that
they lost that game in Manhattan, it was, you know what, offensively,
Yet again, I'm watching a team that looks like it's
having a really hard time figuring it out. Last night
would be easier to swallow if they would have beaten Arizona,

(27:30):
by the way, a game that was there for the taking.
Caleb Love did not have a good game last year's
Pack twelve Player of the Year. Cincinnati held him to
three to fifteen, but they dig a nineteen point hole
because offensively they're not very good, and then there were
all sorts of execution errors on both sides of the
floor in the final two two and a half minutes.
So I saw a non competitiveness which I was not

(27:52):
supposed to see because I didn't see it last year.
But I also saw a continuation of some things that
were sobering going in. It's like the perfect storm of
bad stuff I didn't see last year and more of
the same stuff I've seen this year. That's the perfect
storm of bad that's deeply frustrating. So I know where

(28:15):
this goes. For a lot of people, it becomes about
the coach and look, man, Wes Miller is still trying
to win a lot of people over. And you are
being very fair if you're skeptical as to whether or
not he's the guy to kind of get this done,
making them a consistent perennial NCAA tournament team while playing
in the Big twelve and get him to a place
where actually competing for Big twelve championships. Like, you're being

(28:36):
very fair if you just you're looking at this right
now going I don't know, or even if you've come
to the conclusion he's not the guy. I'm a little
bit more interested in how this gets fixed this season.
A month ago, you had folks wondering could the Bearcats
be a top four seed in the NCAA tournament. Now
I can find the same folks wondering if they're going
to be a top four seed in the nit AT,

(29:01):
wondering when they're gonna win one big twelve game. How
does this team get fixed this year? Five point three seven,
four nine, fifteen thirty is our phone number. Many of
the same questions applyed to xavior. Rick Boring talks about
the Musketeers and the Norse next four o'clock. This is

(29:25):
ESPN fifteen thirty on Wednesdays. Right around this time, we
chat with our guy, Rick Boring Musketeer Report dot Com,
NKU Radio. You'll hear him tonight as the Norse take
on Youngstown State. Uh, it's crowded atop the Horizon League.
Youngstown State is the only team in the Horizon League
that has five wins. NK you aiming for a fifth

(29:46):
this evening. That's going to be on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Uh,
you got the the Skinny podcast. Also, Rick has turned
into the only person who's Facebook posts I read, so
he's very very busy.

Speaker 7 (29:57):
How you doing, I'm doing well, tho, how are you?

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, I'm doing okay, man, I'm doing okay. It's good
to have you. It's been a while.

Speaker 7 (30:05):
Thanks. I appreciate you're reading my Facebook posts. I'm going
all all in on Facebook this year.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I've noticed and like, every time I go to that
particular app or social media platform like yours is the
first thing that comes up, and I read it, and
then I read other people's Facebook posts and and then
I quickly go off of Facebook. So thank you for
giving me the only reason to go to that particular platform.

Speaker 7 (30:27):
Yeah. Yeah, Twitter is dying, I'm hearing, so I'm going
back in time or something.

Speaker 8 (30:32):
I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 7 (30:33):
Whatever, we have to post something, I guess.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, very good.

Speaker 9 (30:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
I did a Facebook purge over the holidays where I
unfriended like forty people who have died like in the
time that I've been on Facebook. Yeah. I hated to
do this, but it's like, well, I clear some room
and like I'm like, that person's not with us anymore,
that person I've been with this in ten years. I
cleaned out like maybe thirty to forty people who are
no longer with us, so I have more room.

Speaker 7 (30:56):
Yeah, back under the threshold exactly?

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Is this Xavier season Salvagable.

Speaker 7 (31:07):
From what standpoint from them at large bid standpoint, I
don't think so. I mean, I don't see any way
that this team goes. You know, what, do they have
their They played sixteen games, now they have fifteen left.
They need to go twelve and three during that stretch
probably or whatever. I mean, it's whatever it is. They
need to win a ton of games and win a

(31:29):
lot of them in a row. And that's just not
in the cards for this group. I mean, I think
that's pretty clear based on their talent compared to other
Big East teams. Now, the question is people thought very
highly of this team when the roster was put together
in the offseason. It clearly hasn't panned out that way.
And yes, you don't have Lessina Triore, who was once
expected to be a part of this group, but you

(31:51):
do have most everyone else. I guess Trey Green also
not in the cards there, but he wasn't necessarily expected
to play a huge role. So you have all the
main characters that were originally expected to be a part
of this team. People thought highly of them. The question
is is there anything left in there? Is there something
else they can do? Can they change what they're doing

(32:11):
stylistically in a way that reshapes this season and gets
them playing better basketball to where there's there's some reason
to believe that maybe by the end of the season
they're playing their best and maybe they could go into
Madison Square Garden and pull a couple of upsets. Maybe
that could happen.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
So, when we were assessing their chances in the preseason,
beyond the injuries, which you can't forecast, and obviously Treora
got injured before the season started, what did we get wrong?

Speaker 7 (32:40):
Well, I think a couple things that are really hard
to judge now in the NIL era is how are
mid major guys even if you think they're really good.
And everyone's taking chances on mid major guys and paying
them a lot of money, and a lot of them
are doing well. They're making the jump to the high
major level and they're becoming star level players there. But

(33:00):
how do you know which ones are going to make
the jump and which ones are going to be Actually
they were recruited to the mid major level for a reason.
I'm not saying that Xavier's only problem this year, but
I think it's very clear when you see the play
against the team like Saint John's, they were bullied, they
were overmatched physically. The athletes on Saint John's side were

(33:21):
so significantly better than the athletes on Xavier's side that
it felt like Xavier almost didn't really have a chance.
They felt like a mid major squad out there. And
so I guess that would be part of it is
I think, you know, a Dante Maddox hasn't really been
a go to guy along with Ryan Conwell. Ryan Conwell

(33:41):
has been good, but maybe not a number one for
his team. And granted he wasn't even the number one
at Indiana State a year ago. That was really Robbie
app Love, the big man that he played alongside. So
I mean, looking back there there are a ton of
questions to be asked and a ton of holes that
you can poke in for the theory for how they
put this roster together. But I think that's part of

(34:04):
the times that we're in. When you're in the transfer
portal era and this nil era, you're going to be
taking chances. You're going to be working with the resources
that you have to put your team together from year
to year, and it is going to be a much
more year to year thing. Now. I guess the big
question is for a lot of Xavier fans is did
they make the right decision by chasing off six or

(34:26):
seven guys after last year was over, even if that
squad wasn't good enough last season? Should they have put
more faith in player development and sticking with these guys
even if you have to pay them a little bit
more money than you want to. Should you keep them
around just for the sake of continuity and player development
and getting better. I don't know what the right answer
is to that. I mean, we see some of these

(34:47):
guys that are having pretty good seasons elsewhere after transferring,
But like gid us to makeshire, putting up fourteen points
at Hawaii against the three hundredth best schedule in the
country doesn't necessarily tell me that he's the missing link
to the Xavier team, you know. I tend to think
probably the drop and ske and talent at Hawaiian what
he's facing now is more so the reason that he's

(35:07):
playing much better there than he did for the Musketeers
last season. So there are a lot of questions, and
I think, based off of Sean Miller's postgame interview on
fifty five KRC with Joe Underman and Byron Larkin, and
his post game appearance with the media. There are very
few answers right now, and if I had more of them,
I would probably be getting paid a lot more money.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, I hear that. I mean, look that they you
know you talked about that they've brought in players who
have stepped up a level. Well, i mean, who wouldn't
take Quincy OLIVERI right, And who wouldn't take sou Le Boom?
And you know who wouldn'take Ryan Conwell, he really struggled
last night. But I think there's a lot of big
eat schools, at priv schools and other power for power
five leagues that would would like him. I think there's

(35:48):
a lot of us who have kind of given Sean
the benefit of it out and said, all right, bring
in one or two really good mid major players, see
if they could step up a level. Fill the roster
with other guys, and Sean will figure it out. Why
has he been able to figure it out?

Speaker 7 (36:03):
Again? I go back to last night's game. I'm sure
you watched some of it more. I know there was
a lot going on, but there there was a clear
discrepancy between those two teams from an athlete standpoint. I mean,
I know Saint John's is probably on the higher end
of the spectrum when it comes to athleticism in college basketball,
and Xavier right now, the problem is they seem to

(36:23):
be in the bottom half of that spectrum, and maybe
even lower than they should be, in the bottom half
for a team that's competing at the high major level.
It's that would be where I start with it. It just
doesn't really seem like they have the horses right now
from a physicality standpoint, from an athleticism standpoint, and then
beyond that, I don't know why the offense doesn't look better.

(36:47):
I mean, we saw it maybe for a few games,
Like I'm thinking the game against Yukon at Yukon to
open Big East to play where they hit I think
it was fourteen threes in that game. They shot the
ball really well, whatever it was, the shot making was
at a high level, the ball was moving better. Dante
Maddox was a big part of their offense in that game,
and I think originally that's what we all thought, like
you're going to have Ryan Conwell leading the way as

(37:08):
a big time shooter and score. You're going to have
another forty percent shooter who's a double digit guy consistently
and Dante Maddox next to him. Daveon McKnight's going to
be this big time point guard that's all big East
type level running the show along with those guys, and
with that backcourt, they're really just going to be high powered,
fast paced. It's going to be tough to chase the
ball around on the defensive end, and as it turns out,

(37:31):
a lot of teams have just said, you know what,
we're bigger, we're more athletic, we're longer. We're not going
to let you reverse the ball. We're not going to
let you play real fast. We're going to really guard
you difficult man demand, we're not going to help off
your shooters, and we're going to make the bet that
you can't beat us one on one and score over us.
And that's the type of defense that they've really struggled
most with this year.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Rick Buring with us, you'll hear him tonight with Jim
Kelch NKU and Youngstown State North visiting the Penguins, who
are five and one in the Hurriz League. NKU is
four and one. First of all, the last game, did
you get to spend any of the broadcast dunking on
Doug Gottlieb, who feels like the lowest of low hanging
fruit right now, I.

Speaker 7 (38:10):
Will tell you that I mostly avoided that chance because one,
I think a lot of people are doing it already
and I don't think it needs to be done anymore.
And two, in a very rare occurrence, something that's never
happened through my five years of broadcasting, now five plus
years of broadcasting. Now, two hours before the game, the
head coach of the other team, Doug Gottlieb, came out
to our broadcast station. That was awesome, talk to us

(38:32):
for about ten fifteen minutes and was an open book,
was willing to talk about all that was going on,
just had a very nice conversation with Jim Kelch and
I so, I quite honestly have a new opinion of
Doug Gottlieb somewhat and was pretty impressed with the way
that he handled himself there before the gig.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Okay, we'll see. I think he's ruining it for sports
talk radio host because we're supposed to pretend this is
a really hard, time consuming job, and he has it.
But he's also he's not doing a very good job
with that team this year, and fifteen, but he's coaching
a D one basketball program. You're not supposed to have
time for anything when you do radio. He's ruining the facade.

Speaker 7 (39:09):
Well, that's what I wanted to bring up with you, Mo,
because you might have a bone to pick with him,
because that's one of the things he did make clear
to me and Jim. You know, he's like everyone's making
it a big deal, like this is so hard to
do both, and he's like, it's not that big of
a deal to do the radio show. He's like, I
get to a hotel room, we set up an internet line,
and I just talked for three hours. So I don't
know what you guys are doing over there at your station,

(39:29):
but it seems like he got it all figured out.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
You're supposed to pretend that this is an all consuming,
all encompassing job that requires your work eighteen to twenty
hours quickly. The Norse are off to a good start
in the Horizon League. They play a team that has
a five to one record tonight, handicap the league race
through this stage of the season.

Speaker 7 (39:47):
For me, Man, Jim and I were just talking about
this today when we were at lunch. It's tough to
figure out who the top teams are right now. It
felt like it was even more bunched up maybe two
weeks ago when we last talked. Now, you kind of
have a separation between the top half of the league
and the bottom half of the league. But when we
talked about the top half of the league, all of
them have one loss for the most part, And I mean,

(40:08):
we could have a big tie a top first place tonight,
assuming NKU pulls off the win here at Youngstown State.
So I mean, I think a lot of people expected
Milwaukee to be the best team coming into the conference.
They've lived up to that with a four and one record.
For due Fort Wayne has lost two games now there
four and two, but they're still one of the more
competitive teams. They were picked to win the league. I
think NKU is playing as well as anyone right now,

(40:29):
and they have a player that could arguably be the
top front runner for player of the Year in the
league right now in Trey Robinson. And then of course
Youngstown State has the best record with five and one
right now, So with them and Milwaukee, all of those
teams are very much in the mix for the top
of this conference right now. And I don't really see
a clear reason to separate any of them at the moment.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I think I'm coming to the game February sith when
they host Cleveland State. I need you to be ready
for that.

Speaker 7 (40:54):
Okay, I'll be locked in. We'll be looking for you.
Cleveland State not one of the teams towards the I
mean they excuse me. They are one of the teams
there with a four to one record, so they could
be tied top the conference when they coming down.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Wow, awesome. I can't wait. And we'll talk to you
next week. Thanks so much, Thanks Ma, I appreciate it.
You'll hear Rick tonight on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Read
his work at musketeer Report dot com, and let's pretend
it's two thousand and nine and be friends with him
on Facebook. It's four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty. Run
a business and you're listening to the Home of the
Bengals ESPN fifteen thirty. There you go. You know, if

(41:31):
you were watching Hard Knocks last night, you heard Dave
Lapham give us a bam bam bam because they featured
the Bengals Steelers game. I'm Maleger. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty five minutes after four o'clock. So the Bengals don't
make the postseason and we're still dealing with the post

(41:51):
wart have been talking about what's next. But the run
that they went on at the end, it was fun
and what added to it use getting to watch it
play out every Tuesday night or depending on when you
stream it on Max on Hard Knocks in season with
the AFC North. If you have listened to this show

(42:11):
for any amount of time, you know what a huge
Hard Knocks fan I am, regardless of whether or not
the Bengals are featured, which obviously they have in the past.
And so the project this year we have been excited
about since it was announced, which they went in season
late in the year, down the stretch and in the
playoffs with all four AFC North teams. And what was
always interesting about this for me was you are going
to get teams that win and advance in the postseason,

(42:34):
and you're gonna get teams that lose and maybe by
the time the project starts to air has no chance
of making the postseason, and you have a team like
the Bengals, which if you watch the episode last night,
it ended with Zach Taylor watching those games on Sunday,
that the Bengals needed to go their way. We are
huge fans of NFL Films. We are huge fans of
Hard Knocks, and so it's really cool to get a

(42:56):
few minutes to chat with Ken Rodgers, who is the
vice president and executive producer at NFL Films. Because I
have questions about Hard Knocks, Ken is here to answer them.
I appreciate you joining us, Ken, how are you.

Speaker 9 (43:08):
I'm doing great, and I love what you just said. Like,
there's teams that will win on the show, there's teams
that will.

Speaker 8 (43:16):
Lose on the show.

Speaker 9 (43:17):
But I don't know that any team in the regular
season has given us the drama that the Bengals gave
us the last couple of weeks. It's been It's been
really fun to watch as filmmakers and as fans of
the team.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, you know, we have emotion tied
to it. We knew how it ended, but I was
when the game ended on Saturday, I was curious as
to how you were going to cover what was next
whatever that was, which is you know, the Chiefs win
and the Jets win, and the Bengals advance or one
of those results doesn't go their way. I thought the
way that was shown last night, it was it was

(43:52):
tough to watch as a Bengals fan, but I think
it was deeply satisfying for folks who watched and maybe
didn't have as much of an emotional stake as we
eat it.

Speaker 9 (44:01):
Yeah, and you know, there was a there's an alternate
universe where you know, the the Broncos Chiefs game really
comes down to the.

Speaker 8 (44:10):
Wire and it's really dramatic.

Speaker 9 (44:13):
This was more of just the general slow letdown, and
I think fans probably felt that as well as the players.
And to see see coach in his office studying film,
you know, planning for the playoffs while simultaneously the playoffs
are being taken away, really speaks to how how fickle

(44:37):
the league is and how close you can be. And
I think everybody feels around the NFL that, boy, we're
glad we're not facing the Bengals, because you know, you
don't want to face the hot hand going in the playoffs.
I certainly, as a filmmaker, wish they were in. I
wish we had three teams in the AFC North in

(44:58):
we all did, it would have would have been even
that much more dramatic. But for what for what they
did it was, I think it was a great thing
to show the country the resolve that exists on that
roster and the and in the coaching staff.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, and if you didn't see it last night, it's
available on Max and and the show ends with players
on the team and the head coach doing what we
were all doing on Sunday, which is unfortunately watching Denver
roll over the Kansas City Chiefs. Hard Knocks has become
in recent years more and more ambitious. Right, you've done
it in the season, You've done an offseason one, which

(45:35):
with the New York Giants I thought was really cool.
This was a different type of project, four teams at
once in season. Now it's not over, obviously you sti't
have episodes to come. But what has been something unique
about this project that maybe you didn't expect going in?

Speaker 9 (45:52):
I think the highlight is something that we thought might
happen but actually played out much bigger than we expected,
which is the teams playing themselves, playing each other.

Speaker 8 (46:06):
That to me is a side benefit.

Speaker 9 (46:09):
We originally picked a division to cover because we've had
some teams on in season that were out of it.
Early and what drama is really left. Of course, there's
personal drama. Everyone's trying to make, you know, continue to
be on the squad and make a living and provide
for their family. But when a team is out of it,

(46:30):
it doesn't really provide as much drama on the big picture.
So having a division, we know at least one person
is going to the playoff, one team's going.

Speaker 8 (46:38):
What we didn't really expect to.

Speaker 9 (46:40):
Be as dramatic as possible as it was was the teams.

Speaker 8 (46:45):
Playing each other. I mean, just this final week.

Speaker 9 (46:48):
If you're a Browns fan, you're looking to upset the
Ravens and take away the division. But the other three
are all playing for seeding or or to get in,
and they're playing against each other. So I mean that
Steelers Bengals game like, to me, that is a benefit

(47:09):
that we could have never predicted. That both teams needed
the game so badly, and that's just going to be
even more dramatic this week.

Speaker 8 (47:18):
Unfortunately for Cincinnati.

Speaker 9 (47:19):
Fans, when the Ravens face the Steelers in the playoffs,
it's okay, Well, now one of those teams is going
home that we've been following for for six weeks and
that's really going to be. You know, the states get
higher and higher, and someone's going to come out of
that and we'll be following them in the Division round,
and who knows who might be following an AFC North

(47:40):
team all the way to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
This is a question from me that is based on
me being a nerd. But you had teams that played
on Monday night. The Bengals played on a Monday night
in Dallas, and less than twenty four hours later, I'm
watching Hard Knocks and part of the story that night
revolves around that game the night before. Walk me through
the quick turn around to get that ready from Monday night,

(48:02):
late Monday night to watching on HBO on Tuesday evening.

Speaker 9 (48:06):
Well, it doesn't involve sleep, I'll tell you that much.
The process is one that is amazing really to me
still this many years later, that we can turn around
this footage that quickly. It's a testament to our editors
and how how fast we turn around, and also the
technology of sending the footage as the games are being

(48:29):
shot from the stadiums to our headquarters in Mount Laurel,
New Jersey, and editing in real time as it's happening
it's very difficult turnaround, and it's you know, it's happening
as the game has happened, As the game is being played,
footage is being sent back and we're watching it here
and deciding what to do. So the decisions have to

(48:50):
be made quickly. You have to trust yourself, and luckily
this show has been on so long that we sort
of have become fans ourselves. I think the producers who
work on that sort of quick turnaround don't have a
chance to gauge from other people should we put this
clip in or that clip in. They have to respond

(49:10):
as if they were fans because they are, and say,
I'm more interested in this, so that's what I'm putting on.
And I think the fact that we're all fans makes
that a little bit easier. We always say to each other,
put in this show what you think other people would like,
based on what you like, and it turns out good materials,

(49:31):
good material and you make the decision and one day
maybe all that cutting room floor material be seen. But
it's pretty hard to pick it in a quick turnaround,
and we do a great job.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
I think Jen Rodgers is with US vice president and
executive producer in NFL films Hard Knocks in season with
the AFC North streaming now on Max. Next episode next Tuesday.
By the way, that the Bengals season is over, are
is it now just Baltimore Pittsburgh or do you do
any the fallout from the season with Cincinnati and Cleveland.

Speaker 8 (50:03):
We're still around.

Speaker 9 (50:05):
We're not totally embedded the way we were during the season. Obviously,
practice isn't happening, a lot of meetings aren't happening all that,
but we are sticking around and sort of just keeping
our eye on things. If big news stories happen, we
certainly want to be there in case it makes The
show has to be I think pretty big in that

(50:29):
the two teams are in the playoffs, so there's going
to be certainly a focus on that, especially playing each other.
But I think certainly if we were to continue for
four more weeks that the other teams would show back up,
and it might be as soon as this coming week,
depending on what happens here in the next couple of days.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
You know what we see it looks like, and look,
I'm sure some people are more cooperative than others, and
some people go through the exercise and it's something they
have to do, but maybe aren't that thrilled about it.
I'm kind of curious, like watching watching the Browns when
when the first episode aired, they weren't mathematically eliminated, but
we knew how their season was gonna transpire. We knew

(51:09):
they weren't going to make the playoffs? Is it weird
tiptoeing around?

Speaker 9 (51:13):
You know?

Speaker 2 (51:13):
It's one thing when you're doing it during training camp,
right like the season is fresh and and new and
everybody has hope. It's something else when you know you're
with a team that's that's trending towards the postseason, like
Baltimore and despite their recent struggles Pittsburgh. It's something else
when and you did this when you had Arizona in
season a couple of years ago, right like, it's not
going well, Jobs are on the line, there's a lot
of uncertainty. How weird is it being around a team

(51:36):
like that and showing them on TV every week?

Speaker 9 (51:39):
Yeah, it's certainly not. I wouldn't say it's enjoyable television,
you know. I think the way we build the show,
you are I think cheering for everyone. If you're a
fan of a team that isn't in the AFC North
certainly make the show so that you, you know, are cheering
for the men and women involved in in the games.

(52:01):
Now when it's not going well, there's still personal stakes,
so I hope that you still care about the people,
and we certainly did as filmmakers and as I said, fans,
we still wanted the Browns to do well. We still
wanted the individuals to do well, and you don't really
stop cheering for them, but you also don't want to

(52:24):
to spend too much time on it when what you
really want to feel is success. I'm not I'm not
sure about this, but I would guess that Cleveland fans
were okay with the amount that they were in the
show because spending more time watching losses isn't something they
want to do. They want to they want to see

(52:44):
the inside story, of course, they want to know what's
going on. They want to see great scenes with Miles
Garrett and his birthday party.

Speaker 8 (52:51):
Like there's there's good stuff, but I don't.

Speaker 9 (52:53):
Think we need to spend as much time on things
going wrong. So that's another benefit of covering a whole division.
You know, we expected that maybe a team would be
like that, but you know, it's one of the best
divisions for sure in football certainly was last year, and
we I think we guessed right that we had some
major drama coming down the line. I think we just

(53:14):
came up, you know, one game short here to have
three teams in the playoffs. But the Bengals have such
a great history with Hard Knocks that they just continue
to be really the standard when it comes to showing
off their franchise on this series. They've just been great.

(53:36):
From the two thousand and nine series with Chad and
twenty thirteen the whole draft class that was incredible and Giovanni,
Bernard bar and this girlfriend's mother's car.

Speaker 8 (53:49):
I mean, there's just so many great memories when it comes.

Speaker 9 (53:52):
To Cincinnati and Hard Knocks for us that I hope
this isn't the last time that we feature the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Walk me through, because you know, you, you talked about you,
You made me liked Miles Garrett, which I'm not supposed
to be as a Bungles fan, and with Cameron Hayward.
But you also spent a lot of time with Jamar
Chase and you know, obviously we know here he's a
terrific player. I'm glad, I'm glad the rest of the
country got a chance to see something beyond what he

(54:19):
does on Sundays.

Speaker 8 (54:20):
Oh totally.

Speaker 9 (54:22):
There's so many people out there to see him as
a fantasy football pick and know the name and you know,
know the stats, but don't know who he is as
a person. And Uh, well, I think we found him
to be one of the most genuine, you know, really
passionate people that we've covered on the show. Not just

(54:42):
in the community, which was obvious in a couple of
scenes that we got, but passionate about the team, passionate
about his performance. I mean, the guy is amazing physically statistically,
but his character.

Speaker 8 (55:00):
Just that and that's that's that's rare.

Speaker 9 (55:02):
I think he is a true superstar that is still completely,
in my mind, underrated nationally.

Speaker 8 (55:11):
I hope this helped.

Speaker 9 (55:12):
I hope this helped, uh spread the word about Tomorrow
even more than going into this season, and I think
it'll continue to go up because I don't I don't
foresee him, uh and Joe, you know, dropping down anytime
soon in the performance category.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, I would agree with that. I I have been
an NFL films fan since I was a little kid,
and uh, you guys make it eye watch it, and
the fact that you had the Bengals as a part
of Hard Knocks this year made me even more excited.
I I love this series. I love the work you
guys do. I could geek out over NFL Films anytime.
I appreciate you giving us some time today, Ken, much
much time.

Speaker 9 (55:52):
Well, we appreciate you watching, and uh well we'll be
waiting for the next time the Bengals are on.

Speaker 8 (55:58):
We appreciate them, hope.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
So let's make an hop. But I can't thank you.
That's Ken Rogers. I said, much thanks, Ken Rodgers, NFL
Films Executive producer. I love NFL Films. It's thanks not
having the Bengals in the postseason having them on part
of Hard Knocks. Even watching last night, knowing how the
season was going to end the way it did, it
was still pretty cool. It was more enjoyable to watch

(56:21):
Hard Knocks than the Bearcats last night. I think that's inarguable.
Even if you're like man, Hard Knocks Bengals didn't make
the postseason. Better to watch that, better to watch that
than Xavier as well. Oh, better to watch that. The
Kentucky Hard Knocks was better than Area college basketball. Last night.

(56:41):
It's twenty minutes after four o'clock, guys, kind of moving
into a pretty tough spot. Next DESPN fifteen to thirty
whole question or maybe two or maybe three on X
in just a few minutes thanks to our friends that
United Heartland Insurance at a uhis dot com. I think,

(57:02):
I know we are guests free between now and six o'clock,
which leaves plenty of room for you five one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty on any number of different things. I know
I know where the conversation is going to go when
it comes to Wes Miller and UC basketball, and I
think he would be the first to admit that it's fair.

(57:24):
It's fair where the conversation is going to go. You
have a coach in his fourth season who, with the
the stated goal to get the Bearcats back to the
NCAA Tournament in year four, is threatening to fall short
of that. There has always been I'm not even sure
skepticism is the right word, but I think a lot
of folks have kind of sat and gone, mom, I'm

(57:44):
not sure. I don't know. Like one of the things,
you watch this year's team and you know less. I
think last year's u See season was a successful year
and make the tournament, made the quarterfinals of the NIIT.
But year one in the Big Twelve was about looking
like a Big twelve team, and they did and that
that represented success. The standard has changed this year. I

(58:06):
think the baseline standard is get to the NCAA tournament.
And in the absence of that, you are going to
have a lot of people who go, Okay, it's time
for a change.

Speaker 7 (58:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
I don't think that's going to happen. I think there
are two reasons why. Number one, the thirteen million dollar buyout.
He gets let go before March thirty. First, they got
to pay him thirteen mil. They don't want to do that.
Maybe they can't do that. I think the other one, though,
is like if you move on from a coach, you're
starting from scratch. Now, in some cases you can get

(58:37):
it turned around very quickly, regardless of what happened last night.
Mark Pope started from scratch at UK and has a
team in the top ten and a team that can
contend for a high seed and an SEC championship and
maybe make a run in March. But it's it's hard, man.
I've said this about college football, and I think it
holds true about college basketball. I think it's never been
more difficult to go through a coaching change. Now you

(58:59):
can also argue it's never been easier to get things
turned around years two, three, and four. But you start
from scratch. I mean, if you go back to March,
all the stories written about new coaches and new places,
that the common theme was, yeah, I have no players
on my team, or I've got like two players. I'm
walking into that I'm inheriting. I don't think there's a
huge desire to have a fresh start, especially when you

(59:23):
have some players coming in that are very highly touted
that probably will bounce if you make a coaching change.
But I do think that even if you acknowledge that
if Cincinnati falls short of the NCAA tournament, that Wes
is not going to go anywhere. And I think that's
the most likely outcome if you're the athletic director, if

(59:44):
you're John Cunningham, you would find yourself in a pretty
difficult spot because you have, at least right now, a
very unpopular football coach who you hired. Now, maybe Scott
Saderfield gets things turned around and suddenly he becomes the
most popular sports figure in the city. But right now,

(01:00:05):
Scott Sadderfield's approval rating it's not very high. I think
that's inarguable. So you have hired a football coach who
is deeply unpopular and who I would imagine the majority
of fans would love to see you move on from
You're not gonna and maybe you shouldn't, but you're not.

(01:00:26):
I'll have a football coach that a lot of people
approve of that you hired, and you have a men's
basketball coach whose unpopularity is increasing might not be at
Scott's Sadderfield levels, and he and they may get this
turned around and they finish I don't know, eleven and

(01:00:48):
nine in the Big twelve, go to the tournament, get
to the second weekend, and we are good. But with
where things stand right now, just in terms of public
sentiment and how it's aimed at the two most prominent
coaches in the athletic department, there's a lot of skepticism.
There's a lot of folks who I think would say, yes,
we want to move on the same athletic director hired both.

(01:01:14):
That is not a very enviable place to be. Twenty
eight minutes after four o'clock, Travis Kelcey, on his podcast
with his brother, addressed everybody's complaints about how the Chiefs
played on Sunday. I have I'm a Bengals fan. I
wanted the Broncos to lose. I was rooting for the

(01:01:34):
Kansas City Chiefs, whichever players they put on the field.
I was rooting for Kansas City to win. I have
zero problem with what the Chiefs did. Zero. And like
most have said, the Bengals made their own bed. Don't
lose to the Patriots. Don't lose all those one score games.
Don't put your season at the mercy of the Kansas
City Chiefs. We're gonna play. Travis Kelsey talking about Sunday,

(01:02:01):
let's use the term ancillary benefits. Okay. I don't think
the Chiefs were afraid. I don't think the Chiefs went
out of their way to screw the Bengals. I also
think they understood the upside of doing what they were doing,
even if it wasn't their primary motivation. I'll make that
make more sense. Plus is a former local head coach,

(01:02:22):
the new Mike Gundhy. We'll hear from Gavin Lucks. We'll
talk about one of the most important Bengals off season
questions and a few thoughts on the college football playoff
as well. I'm not sure ninety minutes is going to
be enough. We'll find out. It's four thirty on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. The headlines are a service

(01:02:43):
of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of Lifetime power train Protection and
I Guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life,
Kelsey chev dot Com. Trey Hendrickson AFC Defensive Player of
the Week for an awesome performance on Saturday night against
the Pittsburgh Steelers. Tray the subject of one of our

(01:03:03):
three poll questions on x at moleg or go vote
now thanks to the United Heartland Insurance. Jermaine Burton accused
of assault in the aftermath of an incident on the
morning of December thirtieth. This according to a report in
the Cincinnati Inquirer, a nine to one one caller reported

(01:03:23):
that she wanted to file assault charges against Jermaine Burton,
but then changed her mind. She accused him, and a
call to a nine to one one that he choked her,
locked the door so she couldn't go inside her apartment,
chased her upstairs, broke her phone. Second time, she broke
or he broke her phone. Also alleged that Jermaine grabbed

(01:03:46):
a knife out of her dishwasher and held it to
his neck, threatening suicide. College basketball tonight mku's at Youngstown State.
The Penguins are five and won the Norse four and
one in the Horizon League tip off at seven Fox
Sports thirteen sixty. We have the Mark Pup Show at
six on ESPN fifteen thirty. Dayton battles UMass on the

(01:04:07):
road tonight and the Cyclones play on the road at Savannah.
More on the college basketball coming up in a bit,
and talk about Trey Hendrickson as well in the five
o'clock hour, and we'll hear from Gavin Lux. Let's do this.
This is probably the last time we're going to talk

(01:04:28):
about this. So the Bengals didn't make the postseason for
a lot of different reasons, but the last one was
the Chiefs didn't beat the Denver Broncos and played the
game on Sunday like a preseason game. I have no
problem with this. The Chiefs did what they needed to

(01:04:48):
do for themselves, which was play the game, get it
over as quickly as possible. Who cares about the result,
Get in, get out and move on to what's next.
That is their right, that is their prerogative. The Cincinnati
Bengals and their history have done this. Now you have
to go back a long time. Actually, a game that

(01:05:09):
involved the Chiefs two thousand and five, last game of
the season. They played the Chiefs. If KC wins and
Pittsburgh loses, Chiefs go to the playoffs. Bengals had things
locked up, They started their starters, they played two series
and then laid down and got the game over as
quickly as possible. This entire game is on YouTube. Dick

(01:05:31):
Enberg and Dan Diardo are the announcers. It is a
preseason effort in a regular season game. It's there right now.
You could argue with the way things would then unfold
a week later. Maybe Bengals, uh, you know, it would
have been better served having Kansas City in the postseason,
but that didn't matter. If the Chiefs won that game,
Pittsburgh won their game, Steelers went to the postseason. Bengals

(01:05:52):
laid down, did what they had to do. For better
or worse, Chiefs did what they had to do. It's
their prerogative. Many of them said, well, the Bengals, the
Chiefs were afraid of the Bengals, didn't want to play
the Bengals, afraid to see them, afraid of that smoke.
Here's Travis Kelcey on the New Heights podcast on that topic.

Speaker 10 (01:06:15):
The Chiefs also clinched the number one seed in the AFC,
resting their starters or the majority of them in Week eighteen.
There's some people alleging that it was a purposeful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
I ain't scared of nobody. I wanted them in the playoffs.
I want to slay every dragon one by one, like
Mortal Kombat. I don't even want this to be like
we play the lowest seed. Just give me the best teams, AFC, NFC,
give me all of them Mortal Kombat style. I'll go
through every one of them, giving them my best effort.

Speaker 10 (01:06:43):
You didn't want to see the Bengals in Burrowhead.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Or in Cincinnati, I'll play them at the Walmart parking lot.

Speaker 7 (01:06:49):
Listen.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
I love competing against the greatest. The Bengals were a
fun team to watch there towards the end of the season.
It's a shame they didn't make it in the playoffs
because they would have made the playoffs that much crazier
and that much more fun.

Speaker 10 (01:07:00):
I mean, Burrow put up over like what like four
thousand something yards like it was something crazy. He had
a great year chasing Tea.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
That was one of the wackiest years of football I've
ever seen from a team that I thought was ten
times better than what their record showed. I know that
just playing against them. We didn't throw any game. Guys
are out there competing theirselves trying to get a win.
It wasn't a fun game to be a part of it.
I'm just sitting here on the sideline like, hey, boys,
don't let ruin our mojo.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
It's go time. We got to flip that switch and
know where the biggest, badest team out there. Tremendous job
by Tarren Bland making that arable. By the way, I'm
all for that. He said they might play in a
Walmart parking lot. I'd go to that. I'm in let's play.
Who hasn't wanted to play parking lot football? With the

(01:07:44):
field line for you, with the spaces. I think the
Chiefs viewed that game as something they wanted to get
over with as quickly as possible. I think that was
their primary motivation. Let's get this game over as quickly
as possible. That was their motivation. I don't believe they

(01:08:05):
were afraid of the Bengals. The Chiefs have been in
four of the last five Super Bowls. They're fifteen and two.
It might not have been a dominant fifteen and two,
they're fifteen and two. The last three times the Kansas
City Chiefs have played the Bengals, they've won. They're not afraid. Now,

(01:08:26):
that doesn't mean they weren't aware of the ancillary benefit.
I'm sure if you said to Andy Reid in a
moment of privacy or any one of those players, hey, look,
you've got a chance to advance in the postseason. You
could play, possibly depending on what would happen in their
game against Buffalo, either of the Denver Broncos or the

(01:08:48):
Cincinnati Bengals. I'm gonna guess most in a moment of
truth would say, well, we'd rather take our chances with Denver.
I think they viewed it this way. We're gonna do
what we need to do. But if, oh, by the way,
there's this ancillary benefit of we don't have to see
the Bengals, well that's kind of cool too. Like you

(01:09:11):
you might go look for a new job interview with
a company, and you're looking for a gig, and you
take it because it has a higher salary and you're
going to make more money, and the benefits are better,
and it's got a more flexible schedule and you get
more vacation, and that's your primary motivation for taking the job.

(01:09:33):
But there could also be some ancillary benefits. You know what,
I don't have to deal with that annoying coworker anymore.
You didn't leave the company and go take the new
job because you wanted to be done with the annoying coworker.
But you know what nice ancillary side benefit is, I
don't have to deal with that annoying coworker anymore. I
don't have to sit in any more boring meetings, no

(01:09:56):
meetings at the new job. That's not why I'm taking it.
But so if you know what, I don't have to
sit in those boring meetings anymore, Awesome. I don't have
to listen to my boss's boring stories anymore. Maybe not
why you left, but an ancillary benefit. I think that
was the motivation here. I don't think it was ho
So if we played the bell, who known? I think

(01:10:18):
it was we have nothing to play for it here.
Let's play this like the preseason. We'll put dudes out there,
they'll play, they'll know their job. Get this bad boy
over as quickly as possible. Let's get out of here healthy.
Denver's gonna beat us. Fine, we're fifteen and two. But
if along the way we can scrape the Bengals off
the plate, that's not a bad thing. Frankly, that's not

(01:10:40):
being fair and not being afraid. That's that's that's kind
of just understanding that. Yeah. Fine, if the Bengals aren't
in the postseason, oh well, they shouldn't put themselves on
our mercy. I think it's a good ancillary benefit. We
don't have to worry about Joe Burrow coming into our building.
I think it's afraid. I think it's fright. It's them
being scared. I don't think it's them not wanting to smoke.

(01:11:04):
We're gonna do what we gotta do, what's best for us.
Oh yeah, but that means we don't have to play
Burrow cool. Playing against Joe Burrow is hard. Playing against
the Bengals offense is hard. Playing against the team as
a whole might not be that difficult. Playing against the
version of the Bengals we saw down the stretch, and
playing against the version of the Bengals offense that we
saw for most of the season is not easy. Hey,

(01:11:28):
by the way Pittsburgh and Baltimore played this week, Kansas
City played both teams this season. Baltimore has looked better
down the stretch. Baltimore almost beat him Week one. Pittsburgh
played him in Pittsburgh on Christmas and got blown out. Now,
the Chiefs will have nothing to do with that game,

(01:11:50):
pittsburghor Baltimore. But if I'm a Chiefs fan, all right,
I'm getting ready for whoever we play. But you know what,
if Pittsburgh wins, cool, We're not afraid of Baltimore. But
who would you rather play right now? That broken Steelers
offense that you just played a couple of weeks ago,
or Lamar Jackson who might be MVP? I know the answer.

(01:12:12):
It's not being afraid. It's just looking at matchups. We
do this in every sport. I remember twenty fifteen, down
the stretch, who would you have rather played Pittsburgh or
any of the other teams. It's a sports talk radio staple.
We did it in twenty thirteen. We were all excited.
The Bengals are going to play the Chargers, and not

(01:12:33):
any number of teams they could have played. If my
memory serves me correct, Pittsburgh was one of them. Now
we saw what the Chargers did. They destroyed the Bengals.
Mike Zimmers defense was terrible that day in Gievonni ben
Ard had a fumble and Andy Dalton was awful. There's
always a preference. I'm sure most Chiefs players have given
a choice, you could play this team or this team Denver,

(01:12:53):
Cincinnati would have said Denver. I don't think that was
their motivation. I think the motivation was let's get in,
let's get out. Oh and by the way, yeah, if
along with this, the Bengals are the annoying coworker you
no longer have to talk to because you left for
a more high paying job. You left because the job
is higher paying. The ancillary benefit is I don't have

(01:13:16):
to deal with that annoying coworker. Quarter to five numbers
are five point three, seven, four, nine, fifteen thirty.

Speaker 11 (01:13:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Bengals have a player who had this season an unbelievable year,
has one year left on his deal, and I'm sure
wants a raise and an extension, what do you do
with them? It's not Jamar Chase. We'll get to our
poll questions and uh quick thoughts on the college football
playoff as well. Next on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 8 (01:13:49):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 12 (01:13:53):
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he's ound like with traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
This reporting to the RADS and you'll hear him at
five thirty five. It is nine away from five o'clock.
We've got the college football Playoff semi final tomorrow night
on ESPN fifteen thirty, where Well only carrying one of
the two games on ESPN fifteen thirty, so we'll have

(01:14:47):
Penn State versus Notre Dame tomorrow. Our friends down the
hall are hijacking the Texas Ohio State game the Cotton Bowl,
which as of right now is on schedule to be
played on time. There have been questions a about the weather.
I think we have spent more time during the college
football playoff talking about whether it's working or not, how
it could be fixed, and it can be tweaked. Can

(01:15:09):
I here's the tweak I would make and this will
not happen. So good conversations out there about reseating after
the first round or not giving automatic buyes just because
teams won conference championships like Arizona State and like Boise State.

(01:15:30):
And you know, we had a second round, the quarterfinal round,
where the four teams that had played in the first
round won their games on neutral sites against teams that
had had buys. And there are folks who looked at
this and said, well, that's big and surprising, except the
four teams that won were favored. Now, just because you're

(01:15:51):
favored in a game doesn't mean you're going to win it, right.
The idea behind the point spread is to get as
close to us half as you can. People on each
side of that number but I would love this. I
would love this. I would love for the field to
be selected and then to seed based on Vegas, and

(01:16:19):
you know, especially like once the more I don't know,
I would love to put Vegas in charge.

Speaker 7 (01:16:25):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
First of all, it would further legitimize, legitimize gambling. Secondly,
it would give us more reasons to talk about point
spreads and odds and things like that. I would like
for Vegas to see the College Football Playoff. That's my request.
I think the College Football Playoff has been a smashing
success because I think it's been designed to do one
thing more than anything else. Has it been perfect? No,

(01:16:49):
And look, you're always gonna have arguments about who should
have made it, who should not have made it. That
that happens with the NCAA tournament and will even if
they expand it to levels they shouldn't it will happen
with the College Playoff. They expanded to sixteen, that they
expanded to twenty four for some reason, with the College
Football Playoff, we have decided, like in the postseason, you're
not supposed to have blowouts. We're gonna have six NFL

(01:17:11):
games this weekend. I hope all six are great chances
are there's gonna be a blowout or two. There have
been a bunch in recent years with twos versus sevens blowouts.
Not every team in the postseason is championship worthy. Not
every college football playoff team is gonna be championship worthy.
I love the NBA. There are sixteen playoff teams. More

(01:17:31):
than half usually have no chance of winning the whole thing.
That's okay. I love the baseball playoffs. There's a little
bit more randomness there. Not every team is championship worthy.
Had the Reds made it two years ago and they
came that close, probably not a championship team. But that's okay.
It's fine, except in the college football playoff. Some have

(01:17:52):
determined it's not fine. And anybody who's in a game
where there's a blowout and they lose by a bunch
of points is for some reason not deserving. College football
playoff exists for two reasons. Number one, to make a
lot of people a lot of money. Number two, to
give every fan of sense that their team has access

(01:18:13):
to the championship. That's what it's done. Every fan of
every at least at least power for a program and
even beyond, should feel like my team has access to
the championship. Every college basketball fan feels like their team

(01:18:34):
has access to the championship. Most are not going to
win it. Excuse me. Northern Kentucky University has access to
the championship. Are they gonna win a national championship?

Speaker 7 (01:18:45):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Knock on Darren Horn, probably not, but they have access
to the championship event. Every college basketball fan feels like
my team has access to the championship. College football, it's
not existed that way. How it does. I think if
you're a UC fan, if you're a Kentucky fan, not

(01:19:06):
exactly traditional football powers. The Bearcats have obviously in recent
years been quite good, often mark Stoops not. This past
season has had some really good teams. I think if
you're a fan of either one of those programs, you
feel like my teams, my team can make the playoff.
Is UC or Kentucky going to win a national title?

(01:19:28):
Wouldn't bet on it. Should both have realistic expectations of
playing in the tournament one thousand percent, and if you're in,
theoretically at least you've got a shot. That's the beauty
of playoffs, that's the beauty of the NCAA tournament, it
might not be likely, but if our team is in,
we've got a shot. And so regardless of how you

(01:19:52):
structure it, how many teams, how the teams get seated,
if you figure out a way to take some of
those quarterfinal games and put them on campus, like the
first round games, whatever, I think it's been a smashing
success because it's made every fan of every team feel
like my program has access to the championship. You see,

(01:20:14):
football had a profoundly disappointing end of the season, and
yet I think if you're a Bearcat fan, you might
not believe it can happen. With this particular head coach.
You should feel like, you know what, if a handful
of the right things happen, they could be playing in
the playoff. Hell, they they played in the playoff when
it was four. Why shouldn't they play in the playoff

(01:20:35):
when it's twelve. It's less exclusive. So maybe the games
top to bottom haven't been awesome. Ohio State has looked great.
There's been like legitimately one good game, and that's unfortunate
because I'm a fan of good games. Some years that's
gonna happen. Some years, there aren't a lot of great
NFL playoff games. Some years there aren't a lot of

(01:20:56):
great long series in the NBA. Some years aren't a
lot of great postseason baseball games. There are gonna be
years we have great college football playoff games. They're gonna
be years we don't. But every year every fan will
feel like at some point their program has access to
the championship. Right now, it doesn't feel like, you see
your Xavier this year have access to the championship. More

(01:21:19):
on that coming up in just a few minutes. And
Trey Hendrickson wanted out last year, what about this year?
It's coming up on five o'clock on Moegar. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Hey, it's Moegar Football
thing to the home of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (01:21:37):
That's us.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Good afternoon on Mogar.

Speaker 7 (01:21:40):
This is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
ESPN fifteen thirty. Appreciate listening, and hopefully you're enjoying your
Wednesday afternoon as much as we are.

Speaker 8 (01:21:52):
We are.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Get this part out of the way now, it's I
guess the story of the afternoon. It's not one that
I've chosen to really revolve much of a topic around
because I don't think like a topic has to me.
A good sports talk radio topic or a good talk
radio topic has you know, a lot of different sides
and angles and different positions people could take. Jermaine Burton.

(01:22:19):
I was done with last week, and frankly have been
done with for a while. I hope Jermaine Burton grows up,
and I hope he grows up and it's a success
at whatever he chooses to be a success at, and
maybe that's football and awesome. I don't root for human
beings to fail. As a fan of an NFL franchise

(01:22:41):
and understanding what an NFL franchise is, which is a
business with the bottom line and clear cut goals, I
don't have any room for Jamaine Burton on my team. Unreliable,
can't show up, can't be counted on, athletically gifted, sure, talented, yep.
I should be able to find somebody else. I'm more

(01:23:02):
interested in reliability. I'm more interested in can I count
on you? I'm more interested in players that I could
wrap my brain around what they bring to the table,
because they actually come to the table. So I've kind
of made a conclusion about Jermaine Burton for a while
There is a story out today Kelsey Conway of The

(01:23:24):
Inquirer doing some reporting here that Jermaine Burton is accused
of assaulting a woman that he was dating, but she
refused to press charges. This according to and again Kelsey
Conway doing the reporting a Cincinnati police report. Assault reported
in the morning of December thirtieth. This was just a

(01:23:46):
couple of days obviously before the Bengals nixed Burton from
traveling with the team to Pittsburgh. A report. The police
report shows that Jermaine Burton and a woman that he
met in September who he dated on and off in
the month prior to the alleged assaults, had been out.
They had been out with each other argued before an

(01:24:07):
incident in the woman's Oakley neighborhood apartment. After the night out,
police recalled. The woman said Burton met her department at
her apartment, chased her inside, damaged her phone, and assaulted her,
including choking her, and the caller said before leaving, Burton
held a knife to his neck and threatened to kill himself.
You are free to go to Cincinnati dot com and

(01:24:28):
read the rest of this if you choose. Maybe for you,
this is your tipping point. I reached mine a while ago.
I'm just not interested in Jermaine Burton. I'm less interested
than I was, but I wasn't interested to begin with.
So this for me doesn't push the stance in any

(01:24:52):
one direction, because I was done. Maybe for you, this
is the last straw. The last straw for me, i'd
be honest with you. Astraw for me came last week
when I saw that he wasn't going to travel, and
I didn't really care about the particulars. I'm not entirely
sure this is why he didn't travel, to be honest
with you, because I've frankly heard some other things, but
it doesn't matter now moving forward. I said this two

(01:25:12):
months ago. The pledge from here on out should be
we're only hiring adults. We're only hiring adults. We're not
hiring children anymore. I'm not talking about age wise, I'm
talking about maturity wise. I'm only hiring people that we

(01:25:35):
can count on, and we're gonna put more of a
premium on that than some of the things that athletically
Jermaine Burton clearly brings to the table. I felt that
way this morning, and I felt that way at two
thirty this afternoon when I read this story which came
out shortly prior to to thirty. You know, in the past,

(01:25:59):
we have seen the Bengal with players who have gotten
in trouble off the field, and you have heard folks
who have been sympathetic to them, who would say things like, well,
he needs the structure of football. Yeah, well, one day
football is gonna go away, then what or you know
the Bengals, boy, they don't want to give up on
him because you know they he needs help. Let him
go get help. We Bengals can help him get help.

(01:26:20):
I just don't want him to be a part of
the team next season because I want players that they
can count on. Jermaine Burton is not someone you can
count on. Nine minutes after five o'clock, we'll get back
to the college basketball here. We do have a couple
of poll questions, three of them thanks to United Heartland

(01:26:41):
Insurance on x right now at moegar. Go to United
Heartland Insurance uagiants dot com. They'll take care of your insurance.
Need insurance, They'll give you insurance. Uagiants dot com is
the UC men's basketball season salvagable Yes or No. Fifty
one point eight percent of you say yes, So they

(01:27:02):
do have the benefit of time if you count the
conference tournament at least eighteen games to go offensively. From
a basketball perspective, forget the metrics, forget what your favorite
Brackett bracketologist is going to say. Forget even where they
are in the net or the bar tarvik or the

(01:27:24):
ken palm. You watch this team offensively, talk about not
being able to count on something. What can I count on?
How does this get better? Who's going to be the
guy that can help create offense when the offense isn't working. Now,

(01:27:47):
what was troubling about last night was with six minutes
and eight seconds to go, they had more turnovers than buckets.
But at least to this point, offensively they had been
not good, but they had still defended. They did not
last night. Second Paul question, is the Xavier men's basketball
season salvageable and Xavier's record is well not good and

(01:28:10):
they're in a good league. Eighty one and a half
percent of you say no, And frankly I agree, I
don't know how that gets better. I don't know. I
don't know. Again, you could side with metrics, or you
could side with Sean Miller's well earned reputation for being

(01:28:31):
a great coach. Look at the composition of the roster,
and then the composition of the roster right now acknowledging
who they don't have. This team is going to have
to win a lot of games in a relatively short
amount of time. When they've lost seven out of ten,
there is a large sample size indicating that this team
is just not very good. And even you know, flinging

(01:28:53):
it back to UC for a second, if you're a
Xavier fan getting mad at me for saying that, well,
I mean from an offensive perspective with the bear Cat,
it wasn't just last night, and it's not just Big
twelve play. Like when they were beating Xavier and Dayton
emotional wins for Wes Miller, badly needed wins, cathartic especially
the Xavier game. Obviously cathartic wins for the fan base.

(01:29:16):
They were winning those games in spite of their offense,
and so kind of beneath the surface there was this,
I think very understandable concern that, you know what, offensively,
this team has issues. Those issues have continued into Big
twelve play. Then you add to it the effort last night,

(01:29:37):
which wasn't great, the lack of toughness last night which
wasn't great, and the poorest defense last night, which was abysmal.
All of that added up is pretty problematic. And then
I think was Xavier. Again, it's a large enough sample
size of this team losing seven out of ten games,
and at times games that they've played well in for

(01:29:57):
stretches or got a tough whistle. But what about this
team right now? Do you hang your hat on and
say they can rip off five wins in six games
against who they have to play in the coming weeks.
Third pole question is this, and maybe this is not
what it comes down to. If you could only have one,

(01:30:18):
which player would you rather have on the twenty twenty
five Bengals, T Higgins or Trey Hendrickson. Now, I believe
item number one on the off season to do list
is get the Jamar Chase thing done. Just end it,
forget about it, move on, get it done. Acknowledge maybe
you're paying a lot more than you would have had

(01:30:39):
you paid him in August. Get it done, so you
just you cross it off the list and move forward.
We've talked about the Jamar Chase thing a lot. T
Higgins has been talked about more than any other player
over the last five weeks because of Joe Burrow's public
comments about him. And then you know, it's performance specifically
obviously against the Denver Broncos and what they do with

(01:30:59):
t Higgins well, in many respects kind of set the
rest of the dominoes, you know, in motion for what
the rest of the off season looks like. But Trey
Hendrickson is also really really interesting. So last off season
he went to the Bengals and asked for more, more years,

(01:31:19):
more money. I don't know how you could blame him, right,
he was coming off a really good year and he
went to the Bengals and said more years, more money.
Don't blame him at all, Right, he tried to use
he tried to use his good year as a mechanism

(01:31:40):
to get more I don't blame the Bengals for what
they did either, which was tell him, dude, you've got
two years left on your contract. You just signed a
one year extension. This is the deal. You're going to
be thirty by the end of this coming season. There
is no compelling reason for us to give you even

(01:32:03):
more and pay you into twenty twenty six. Sorry, I
don't think either side was wrong. Trey asked for a
trade that obviously didn't materialize. It didn't play out very publicly. Well,
since then, Trey has had an even better season could
be don't think he will be the defensive player of

(01:32:23):
the year if he wanted more at the end of
twenty twenty three.

Speaker 8 (01:32:29):
It stands the.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
Reason he's gonna want even more at the end of
twenty twenty four. And now there's one year left on
his deal. This turns into one of the more interesting
storylines this year because, well, first of all, the Bengals
don't have any other really good defensive players. They've got
some young guys that look promising that could be building blocks,

(01:32:52):
but nobody else right, there's no Trey Hendrickson played at
a Pro Bowl or All Pro caliber level. No one
else came close. And so you've got one good defensive
player coming off maybe the best season that any defensive
player had in the league, led the league in sacks.
That's the kind of guy you want to keep.

Speaker 4 (01:33:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
At the same time, well, there is the age factor.
He is thirty years old. It's going to be thirty
one by the end of next season. There is the
understanding that Okay, we want Jamar, I want Tea Like, Okay, well,

(01:33:33):
you might be able to make it work with those guys,
but I mean, there is a limit on the amount
of guys you could pay big money to. Trey would
be looking for big money. There's also well, we'd you know,
like to be able to bite the bullet and swallow
it a little bit easier. And the one way we

(01:33:54):
could do that is by moving on from Trey, saving
money against the cap in twenty twenty five and flipping
him for what we need badly, which is draft capital.
There's also Paul Dayner Junior and I talked about this
on his podcast today, the Growler Podcast, which is awesome,

(01:34:14):
and we had a good conversation today. But he and
I we were talking about the off season to do list,
and there's a lot of stuff on it. One of
those items is have a relatively quiet, controversy free off
season like this past offseason training camp is noisy. There
the Jamar Chase thing, we talked about it every single day.
Did it turn into a sideshow? Kind of? It kind

(01:34:36):
of did, And again the Bengals screwed it up by
not just paying Jamar Chase it'd be great for this
particular off season and training camp in preseason to play
out without controversy. Like my job each of the last
three years in the summertime has been really really easy
because three years ago I could talk every day about

(01:34:57):
Jesse Bates, and two years ago I could talk every
day about t Higgins, and last year I could talk
every day about Jamar Chase. It'd be kind of nice
for the Bengals if my job was a little bit
more difficult. Well, if the goal is a quiet training
camp and a quiet offseason, what do you do with

(01:35:18):
Trey Hendrickson? And by the way, there's also you got
a new defensive coordinator coming in. I don't know who
it's gonna be, but it's a new defensive coordinator. And
the first thing you tell him is, yeah, here's the deal, dude,
we've got to fix our secondary, and we've we maybe
need playmakers at linebacker, and we've got to be better

(01:35:38):
against the run and upfront on the defensive line, we
need an overaul. Oh yeah, that dude to add seventeen
and a half sacks. Yeah, yeah, you're not gonna coach him, Like,
uh okay, So what do you do do you make
it about either Tea or Trey, because there's convincing arguments

(01:36:00):
in favor of both. Do you try to make the
financial burden a little bit easier if you want to
sign Tea by trading Trey. Do you increase the likelihood
that you could use the draft to make the rest
of the team better by flipping Tray for draft capital.

(01:36:21):
Do you look at Joe Burrow and say, this wide
receiver you have campaigned for, that you have lobbied for emphatically,
we're gonna say goodbye to but hey, we still have
this defensive end who is maybe the best at his craft.
I'd be honest with you, I don't know that I

(01:36:42):
really feel emphatically like I have the right answer. I
guess I lean toward this, I lean toward signing t Higgins,
and I lean toward selling high with Trey Hendrickson. But
at the same time, it's hard to say that and

(01:37:06):
feel really good about how a bad defense is going
to be dramatically better if you trade away the best
and only good player from that defense. There's also just, hey, look,
let's just let this play out. We let things play
out with Jesse Bates, we let things play out with

(01:37:29):
t Higgins. We have allowed things to play out even
longer with Jamar Chase. Let's let things play out with
Trey Hendrickson. And maybe you do that and maybe nothing happens.
Maybe Trey says, cool, go have a great year, hit
free agency and see you. But if the guy asked
for more money, didn't get it, and saw to trade

(01:37:51):
last April, do we really believe he's not going to
try a similar tactic this coming offseason? And what could
that mean if you're really trying to have a quiet, peaceful,
non spectacle controversy free offseason In preseason, Uh, fifty seven

(01:38:16):
point four percent of you say rather have Trey Hendrickson.
It doesn't have to be either or, but I think
we could all imagine a scenario where it turned into
an even or. This to me remains one of the
most interesting things this team has going forward this offseason.

(01:38:37):
It's one thing if like Trey in twenty twenty four,
was as good as he was in twenty three, or
if he was not as good as he was in
twenty three he was even better, which awesome for him,
he was even better. Do you really entertain trading away
You're one good defensive player. You're one good est defensive

(01:39:00):
player to better ease the financial burden that you incur
when you keep your wide receiver. Do you look at
Trey and t and go, you know what, Fine, We're
gonna give t what he is looking for. We're gonna
give him more money, We're gonna pay him long term.
But you know what it means. It means we're gonna

(01:39:21):
have to have a tough conversation with Joe Burrow and
tell him we're saying goodbye to his favorite wide receiver,
second favorite wide receiver. It's a tough place to be.

Speaker 6 (01:39:28):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
Not sure I know the answer. You're welcome to try
five point three seven four nine fifteen thirty and eight
sixty six, seven oh two three seven seven six vote
now at Moegger again thanks to United Heartland Insurance. Mark
Pope Show coming up as soon as we're done. At

(01:39:50):
six o'clock, you'll hear Gavin Lux. You're gonna hear from
the former UC coach who might be the new Mike Gundy,
and we'll talk talk about a new college basketball normal
that might be setting in as well. On ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 8 (01:40:05):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
It is twenty six excuse me, twenty six after five o'clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. You know what we should
do is talk to other people on the phone. I
have babbled long enough. Resolution for the new year, talk
to more people, talk to more people. I have a
lot of I have. I have, like I think, four

(01:40:30):
resolutions for the new year, and so far I have
I have lived up to all four of them. Well,
I've lit three our resolutions. One's a goal and maybe
we'll make another one to talk to more people. Babble less,
talk to more people. See if we can get started
on that. Jason and Williamsburg, you're on ESPN fifteen thirty.

(01:40:53):
Good afternoon. How are you.

Speaker 11 (01:40:55):
I'm doing great, man. How are you doing, buddy?

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
I'm awesome. What's up?

Speaker 7 (01:40:59):
Hey?

Speaker 11 (01:41:00):
First off, I've been listening to you since basically you
got on and oh no, it's it's I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
I'm a big fan.

Speaker 7 (01:41:10):
Big fans.

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
You think.

Speaker 11 (01:41:12):
Trey Hendrickson, so I feel like, all right, yeah, he
was their best defensive player, obviously, and they were still
bottom feeders on the defense. So I feel like t
Higgins makes Jamar much better on the offense. I just

(01:41:38):
I think Trey's more expendable, and I love Trey. I
think he's more expendable than the Tagas. I would rather
spend that money on t Higgins than Tray.

Speaker 2 (01:41:49):
Yeah, and look, we're also talking about like a contract
beyond this coming season for Trey. So trade just turned
thirty about a month I think December fifth or sixth, right,
just turned already t Higgins is twenty five. Like you
could do a deal with t Higgins and not have
to pay him a dime into his thirties. With Trey Hendrickson,
I don't know what he's looking for. It's like if

(01:42:10):
he's looking for one more year, I guess. But if
I'm Trey Hendrickson, I'm like, dude, i just had seventeen
and a half sacks. I'm just getting started. There's a
part of me that wants to hit free agency. But
before I do that, I'm gonna go to the Bengals
and go give me something longer term than just this
coming year. And I'd have to give that serious pause,

(01:42:30):
especially because I'm also looking at paying t Higgins.

Speaker 8 (01:42:34):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 11 (01:42:35):
I mean, if here's the Bengals, they're gonna do anything,
trade them. His value is not gonna be any higher
than it is right now.

Speaker 2 (01:42:42):
Yeah, And that's that's the other thing too. It's like,
all right, you could extend him, or you could let
it play out, or you could try to use him
to do what you really need to do. This like,
they still have so many needs. We can debate back
and forth with the biggest offseason priority is. But that
list of things they have to do is really really long.
Can you do in one off season? Well, the answer
is more likely to be yes if you accumulate more

(01:43:05):
more raffle tickets in the draft, and there's nobody else
you could get premium picks for, I think besides Trey Hendrickson.
Now specifically what would that be, I don't know, but
I would think if you were to make the the
NFL sack leader, put him on the market and field
offers that you would like what you got in return.

Speaker 11 (01:43:22):
Yeah, I mean, I would at least think you could
get a two, maybe a couple that with a two
and a four or something like that.

Speaker 13 (01:43:30):
What the heck?

Speaker 7 (01:43:31):
I mean?

Speaker 11 (01:43:31):
How was that bad?

Speaker 7 (01:43:33):
It?

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
Also? It also what complicates it is, you know, this
would be an easier conversation to have had Miles Murphy
not to this point been a disappointment, right, because I
think a lot of us just, all right, you drafted
Miles Murphy and maybe year one he's kind of a
rotational guy, and he takes on a larger role in
twenty twenty four, and then you know, moving forward, he's

(01:43:54):
the guy that replaces Trey Hendrickson or Sam Hubbard, I guess,
And that hasn't happened, and Joseph Osai hasn't really worked out.
There's the player, but there's also the plan to replace them,
and god knows, we've talked about that a lot as
it relates to other positions. The plan to replace them
hasn't worked out either, and so it's an easier conversation
to have. But Yeah, on one hand, I have a really,

(01:44:15):
really good twenty five year old and I have a
currently great thirty year old usually, and I think most
teams would do the same thing. They're gonna lean toward
the twenty five year old.

Speaker 11 (01:44:25):
Yeah, that's exactly what I would do, because I feel
like a lot, not all, but a lot of Jamar's
success is because Higgins is.

Speaker 7 (01:44:34):
On the field.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Sure, I mean, they're better with t Higgins. Right, I
don't have it in front of me, but we have
seen what their record is when they have those three
players on the field. We saw what this offense look
like built around those guys, even though the offensive line
top to bottom wasn't very good. But again, you're gonna
have the counter to that is going to be Wait
a minute, you saw what your defense was like with

(01:44:56):
Trey Hendrickson. Imagine what that defense. I mean, he almost
had as many sachs as the rest of the team combined.
It's it's a part of the conversation that we weren't
having when Joe was banging on the table for t Higgins.
But now that the offseason is here and we've sort
of come to appreciate how good Tray was, it really

(01:45:17):
becomes one of the more interesting dynamics this offseason. Jason
call again, Man, thanks so much.

Speaker 11 (01:45:22):
Thanks man, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:23):
All Right, Gavin Lux was on MLB Network today. You'll
hear that or part of it next on ESPN.

Speaker 8 (01:45:29):
Fifteen thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
All right, let's get to the Gavin Lux audio. It's
twenty four from four o'clock twenty four from six o'clock.
Maybe one of my New Year's resolutions should be to
know how to read a clock this year, hopefull they
can put one in your studio. Yeah, well I have
in here, one, two, three, I have three clocks in

(01:45:56):
here plus my phone. Can I tell us worry about
the people who built these studios? So we are. We
have now been in these studios for just just over
three years. We moved what December of twenty one, yep.
And the guy in charge of building them, you know,
when they moved us over, he gave some of us
tours and we had to go in groups, and the

(01:46:18):
studios do not have like traditional clocks, and so he's
walking us through and I go, hey, can I see
the question? He's like, yeah, where's the clock? And he
just looks at me and goes clock. Gavin Lux was
on the MLB Network earlier today talking about his trade.

(01:46:39):
He's been traded from the world champion LA Dodgers to
our Cincinnati Reds, and he was asked what's one skill
set he can rely on while getting adjusted to his
new team.

Speaker 7 (01:46:51):
Yeah, I think.

Speaker 14 (01:46:53):
Just the preparation piece.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
I think, you know, just how to game plan again,
is pitching.

Speaker 14 (01:47:02):
What like doing homework on on different hitters and and
where they hit the ball on certain pitch types. And
I think just the preparation before every game, so you know,
you once the game starts, you just you play the
game and you don't got to think, and then you're prepared.

Speaker 15 (01:47:16):
And I think, you know, I think that was a
huge takeaway, was Manu. These guys put a lot into into.

Speaker 16 (01:47:24):
Preparation and and and throwing over the analytics on on pitchers,
and I think that's a big thing I learned was
just how to you know, go through that data and
use what I want And you know, how can whatever
I'm taking from that data, how can it help me?

Speaker 11 (01:47:38):
And how can I use it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:40):
Davin Lux also asked for his thoughts on his new
teammate Elli della Cruz.

Speaker 14 (01:47:47):
He's electric man, that's about his dynamic as and athletes
you can get in baseball.

Speaker 15 (01:47:52):
I think when we played them.

Speaker 14 (01:47:52):
In Dadger Stadium earlier last year.

Speaker 15 (01:47:55):
He's still like four or five bases, you get it,
you walk them, we feel sick and then he gets
on second, a six third. I mean, we got to
keep this guy off a basis because I mean he's.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
A problem, right now, like it's like you walk.

Speaker 15 (01:48:08):
Him, he gets a single turn into your triple so
and then obviously he's got stupid juice, and then he
can run and he's a freak athlete. So I'm excited
to see him play every day because that's about as
high as the ceiling as a baseball player as.

Speaker 6 (01:48:23):
You can get.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
Yes, Gavin, Gavin Lucks, I also have stupid juice. Mike
in Los Angeles, you're on ESPN fifteen thirty, Mike, are
you safe? Like that is all of La burning down?
What's going on out there?

Speaker 6 (01:48:42):
No, that's pretty serious.

Speaker 13 (01:48:43):
You're right, I'll tell you what. Where I'm at right now?

Speaker 6 (01:48:47):
You your visibility is one block.

Speaker 13 (01:48:51):
Well, the particulate matter in the air affiliated with this
smoke is very dangerous.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
M It's not good.

Speaker 13 (01:49:02):
So no, it's not good. And I still see knuckleheads
out run around like it's a perfect day. I you know,
they try to.

Speaker 6 (01:49:12):
Tell these people and they just disregard it. It's crazy.
I don't understand, but it's it's pretty scary. Well, it's
kind of tabaquis because usually these forest fires are more
unpopulated areas.

Speaker 13 (01:49:23):
This thing is right in the middle of l A.

Speaker 11 (01:49:27):
Not good.

Speaker 6 (01:49:28):
And when you're talking Pasadena and Pacific Palisades and places
like that, that's you know, you're right in the middle
of La Yeah, and God only knows how many people
are going to get Oh, it's it's very sad.

Speaker 2 (01:49:43):
Yeah, I've seen a lot of a lot of sad video.
What else beyond that mic on a lighter note, is
on your mind?

Speaker 11 (01:49:50):
Okay?

Speaker 13 (01:49:51):
Well, first of all, if your daughter and Joanna.

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
Snowsform immensely, immensely. You know, she got two plus weeks
off school for Christmas and then two extra days because
of the snow, and she loves playing in the snow,
and yes she has a school was back in session
today and she went kicking and screaming back. But she
enjoyed the snow. I hate snow. She enjoyed it immensely.

Speaker 13 (01:50:18):
I'm with you. I can't stand it. I didn't even
like it as a kid. But yeah, I'm trying to
ask you.

Speaker 6 (01:50:24):
Because I asked Tony about how his kids were doing.
What's I got a couple ones. I'll tell you what.

Speaker 13 (01:50:31):
I'm so glad Rick Patino.

Speaker 6 (01:50:34):
Just never ceases to amaze me.

Speaker 13 (01:50:36):
If this guy's not top five, I'll eat your shoe.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
Well, I don't want you to eat my shoe. He's
a terrific basketball coach.

Speaker 5 (01:50:45):
And what I.

Speaker 2 (01:50:51):
Rick Patina trying to think of the best way to
put this. Rick Patina is a great coach. I think
that's the best way to put it. I think you
cannot tell the story we have college basketball over the
last forty years. You know, he took Providence to the
Final Four in nineteen eighty seven and not talk about
Rick Patina. You might not like him personally, you might

(01:51:12):
have questions about how he achieved some of his success.
You can hold the Boston Celtics years against him. He's
a great coach. And I think in this, you know,
this time of as a college basketball fan, where we
have seen so many coaches retire, big personality coaches, coaches
who have moved the meter, Coach k and Jim Beheim

(01:51:33):
and Bob Huggins for a slew of different reasons, I
think it's still really cool to have one of these
iconic folks from back in the day who is still
coaching a really good team at Saint John's in a
high profile league. And so, yeah, Rick Rick Patino is
a He's a great coach, and he's he's maybe there
aren't that many college basketball coaches anymore that really move

(01:51:56):
the meter and get people talking and are that polar.
John Kella Perry does, but I think to a lesser
degree because he's at Arkansas, mccronin I think does. And
we're going to play some audio for mc cronin from
last night in a second. There are others. Rick Patino
is one of them, and I think he's good for
college basketball.

Speaker 13 (01:52:16):
And I love getting to hear Mick after every game.

Speaker 6 (01:52:19):
It's just it ties me back to Cincinnati because I
still look at Nick and I don't think at UCLA.

Speaker 4 (01:52:25):
I still think it a Bearcats.

Speaker 6 (01:52:27):
I I don't care what the uniform is.

Speaker 7 (01:52:29):
He is a Bearcat.

Speaker 6 (01:52:31):
But his style is wonderful.

Speaker 13 (01:52:32):
But Patino, you got to admit, his style is more
like cold Fitch.

Speaker 4 (01:52:37):
And hardball and baseball though with the weather, pounding the
barge and sluttering defense and not a big three shooting
point shooting team.

Speaker 6 (01:52:45):
It's kind of a throwback.

Speaker 2 (01:52:46):
Really well, it's ironic, and I was thinking about this yesterday.
So when you think of Rick Patino at Kentucky, they
embraced the three point shot. Now they also pressed and
he had NBA guys. But but they they really leaned
into the three point shot. And now with at every
level of basketball, every team leaning into the three point shot.

(01:53:09):
I think Saint John's went into last night. They were
three hundred and thirty fifth in the country in percentage
of points off threes, and they, you know, made some
last night. But you're right, when you watch them play,
it's kind of the antithesis of how you expect a
Rick Patino team to play. They're hard nosed on defense,
they were awesome on the glass last night. And when

(01:53:29):
you think of Rick Patino coach teams, those typically aren't
the characteristics you bring up first, right, you think about
them being up and down and shooting threes. And you know,
back in the day pressing, I mean he was. He
was pressing with the New York Knicks when he was
their coach in the late nineteen eighties. And now he's
got a team that is kind of the antithesis of
how basketball is played nowadays. And you know, I don't

(01:53:51):
think they're great, but they're good, and they're good in
a good league, and they're five points away from being undefeated,
and they will be an NCAA tournament team I I.

Speaker 6 (01:54:03):
Couldn't agree more. I got something kind of I think
is a little funny.

Speaker 4 (01:54:07):
With the Bengals dilemma with their drafting bopos, not of course,
but with they're drafting bopos and their defensive issues issues.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could under the table
pay Sean McVay to come in and pick our draft decks.

Speaker 6 (01:54:24):
And then Steel Steel Spagnola somehow from the from Kansas
City and Boom were in the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
Well, I've I've lobbied for this for a while. You know,
we're gonna spend the month of January getting mad at
the Chiefs, and I'd like to spend an off season
just for once, instead of complaining about Travis Kelsey's girlfriend
or what he said on his podcast, or how the
Chiefs like. I'd like to spend January watching the Bengals
play again. That'd be kind of fun. They're a great organization.

(01:54:55):
You might not like to hear me say that. You
might not want to admit it. They're a great organization.
I would be looking to hire people from other really
well run organizations and give them promotions, give them more money,
give them more high profile job titles. I don't know
whether it's the Chiefs or other franchises. I don't know
why there isn't a there's more discussion about the Bengals

(01:55:18):
doing that, Like I would look in that franchise. I
would look in that organization, use contacts around the league
to figure out who's working for the Kansas City Chiefs
that's ready for a bump, and then give them a bump. Here.
Just because you work for a really good team doesn't
mean you're going to be a successful what you do.
But I don't know, man, if I'm looking to if

(01:55:39):
I'm looking to fill open spots in my company, chances
are I'm gonna try to find people working at other
companies who are really good at what they do and
hungry and ready for more. I don't know why the
Bengals or other teams don't do that.

Speaker 6 (01:55:51):
Let me ask you this real quick. Could the Bengals
have had Lab mcconkei.

Speaker 13 (01:55:56):
Or Jalen McMillan instead of Burden uh.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
Off that I'm doing this off the top of my head.
Lad McConkie was taken in round two, So I mean no, no, okay.
Jermaine Burton went. Jermaine Burton went round three. Lad McConkey
was what the the second pick of round two?

Speaker 6 (01:56:19):
That's why I'm asking.

Speaker 4 (01:56:20):
And then Jaylen McMillan from from that's with Tampa.

Speaker 13 (01:56:23):
Now he's turned out to be quite in the shadow
of Mike Evans. Of course he's he's turned out to
be quite a ball player.

Speaker 2 (01:56:29):
Yes, so he he was. He was the third rounder, right,
and the Bengals had they had McKinley Jackson. I'm doing
this off. Yeah, the Bengals took Jermaine Burton and Jaylen
McMillan was still on the board.

Speaker 13 (01:56:45):
So do you now that brings up this?

Speaker 6 (01:56:46):
And now I got you gotta go. There's a game
on most intriguement is in this wildcard thing is the
Tampa Washington game?

Speaker 13 (01:56:53):
Who do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
Like you know, I'm with you. I think it's the
most I think it's the most fun game of the
weekend because I love the Baker Mayfield story. And you know,
Jade Daniels is gonna be the offensive rookie of the
year and he's been terrific. And I think there's a
lot of people who could tell you that but couldn't
tell you specifically. How many you know that the Washington
Commanders finished with twelve wins. Is that good? I think

(01:57:18):
I like Washington. I'm gonna do NFL wild Card round
picks on on Friday, and I'll vet this out a
little bit more. But I but I think, and I
reserve the right to change my mind. I think I
like Washington because Washington's biggest weakness is they're not very

(01:57:43):
good against the run. Tampa Bay cannot expose that weakness.

Speaker 13 (01:57:50):
Well, I don't know, because the rookiees been sensational, and
then White's pretty.

Speaker 6 (01:57:58):
Solid, and they got just kid that they only played
oh so often.

Speaker 4 (01:58:02):
It's a big bruiser named Sean Tucker, so.

Speaker 7 (01:58:07):
You know.

Speaker 13 (01:58:08):
And the other thing, real quick, I noticed since Tampa
got back from their by, their defense is ranked really high,
like number two and something and number four and something.

Speaker 6 (01:58:19):
So I don't know what.

Speaker 4 (01:58:20):
I don't know it was the competition or what lit
a fire into their butt, but they're playing there.

Speaker 13 (01:58:25):
They got so loud.

Speaker 2 (01:58:25):
I mean, you know a part of it. If you
look at their bye. They played the Panthers twice, they
played the Giants, they played Las Vegas, you know, they
they played Dallas, they played I didn't play anybody down
the S. But ye know, you gotta you gotta play
who's on your schedule. And you know, going into their
by if you remember they were they were sliced and
diced by Lamar and the Ravens. They they lose their
two leading wide receivers in that game. They then lose

(01:58:48):
three straight after that. They're four and six at the
bye and they've lost one since, so you give them
a lot of credit. And again, Baker Mayfield went from
a guy that was, you know, sort of looked like
a guy that was gonna just driftlessly around the league
to a guy that's now making over one hundred million dollars.
So good for him. Mike, I got a run. You
got it all right, Taren, Let's do this. Do we

(01:59:08):
have Do we have time to play Mick Cronan from
last night?

Speaker 7 (01:59:12):
Yes? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:59:15):
Do we play Mick first or Mike Gundy first?

Speaker 7 (01:59:17):
How do we do this?

Speaker 2 (01:59:19):
Let's go make it because everyone knows what Mike well
Gunny one right, So, uh, Mick Cronin and UCLA. After
getting beaten by Nebraska on Saturday, they were smoked last
night at home by a good Michigan team ninety four
to seventy five, and you just kind of knew that
Mick was going to play the hits. He was going
to talk about his team's toughness. Uh, he was going

(01:59:42):
to talk about them defensively. Here's some of Mick last night.
I hope this cut includes my favorite part of what
he had to say.

Speaker 17 (01:59:50):
But we don't play, we're soft. So don't tell me
you want to win. I just don't tell me you
want to win. So don't just don't tell me you
want to win. It's crazy, you know, And it's every day.

Speaker 2 (02:00:02):
I'm tired of it. It's every day. I have the
most energy all of anybody at practice.

Speaker 18 (02:00:07):
Every day I'm upset with everybody in that locker room,
my assistant coaches and my players.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
I mean, I don't need to do anything else. I
almost got five hundred wins. I'm only fifty three. I mean,
it's a joke.

Speaker 8 (02:00:20):
It's a joke.

Speaker 17 (02:00:21):
But yet I come in and I have more passion
and energy and pride than everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:00:28):
And that's the problem.

Speaker 18 (02:00:29):
So what the truth of it has been, it's really
hard to coach people that are delusional. The hungry dog
gets the buone. We got guys that think they're way
better than they are. They're nice kids, they're completely delusional
about who they are.

Speaker 2 (02:00:46):
Oh man, I to this day love mic Crone. Can
you give me one more time? Tarin all, I have
five hundred wins, I'm only fifty three. Can you give
me that again?

Speaker 18 (02:01:00):
I mean, I don't need to do anything else, So
I'm just five wins, I'm only fifty three.

Speaker 2 (02:01:06):
Is that the new? I'm a man, I'm forty. For
my Gundy come after me. I'm a man, I'm forty.
I'm not a kid. By the way, That'll never not
be funny. That's from what two thousand and seven? That's
like when is that from seven? So that's eighteen years ago.

(02:01:28):
I think Mick cronin, I have almost a five hundred wins,
I'm only fifty three. Is that the new? Is that
this generations? I'm a man, I'm forty? Like there are
certain games you know, Mick ucl and I rooted for Mick.
I root for the Bruins to do well. They blew
a sixteen point lead against Carolina in New York a

(02:01:49):
few weeks ago, and it was like one of those
games that just when there have been a handful of
them like that. With Mick's coach at UCLA and certainly
at Cincinnati, where offensively they stop scoring and they watch
a big lead of apporate and you can't wait for
the postgame. And then there was last night and you

(02:02:10):
saw the score. I thought, that's next, gonna play the
hits in the post game, and he did.

Speaker 17 (02:02:15):
I mean, I don't need to do anything, though, so
I almost got five hundred wins.

Speaker 2 (02:02:18):
I'm only fifty three. I after watching the Bearcats last
night so badly needed a laugh, and I got one.
Courtesy of UC's former coach, we are done. Anything you
might have missed, go get on the podcast page of
ESPN fifteen thirty dot com or or the iHeartRadio app.

(02:02:41):
Thanks to our friends at long Next Sports Grill. We
are back tomorrow at three ZHO five. Don't forget since
he three to sixty at noon and the Mark Pope
Show is coming up next. Thanks to Taran for producing.
Thanks to you for listening. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (02:02:57):
Nation, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.

Speaker 12 (02:03:06):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. U SE Health's Weight
Loss Center offers comprehensive obesity care and advanced surgical expertise.
Call five one three nine three nine two two sixty three.
That's nine three, nine two two sixty three. He's found
on sixth Street Viaduct after Freeman Avenue. The right lane
blocked off that because of an accident. You're also going

(02:03:28):
to find an accident on cuthbound seventy five approaching two
seventy five in Ohio with slow traffic from Union Center Boulevard.
I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 2 (02:03:37):
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