1/28/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

Paul Dehner Jr on Al Golden, Erick All, and the most frustrating exercise of the offseason. Scott Springer live from Utah, on the Bearcats. Plus...the Reds signed their type of guy. Is that good or bad?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dollars.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Enter this nationwide Keward on our website. Bank that's bank.
Enter it now, as in you can take it to
the bank.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
How you doing.

Speaker 4 (00:12):
My name is Moeger. This is CESPN fifteen thirty. Thank
you for listening. I hope you're having an awesome Tuesday.
Thrilled that you are here. We have a lot of
ground to cover. The Reds have signed a guy like.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
A guy who actually might be able to help play
the outfield and hint lefties, and a player that people
have heard of and a guy who's been in an
All Star Game before. So that's that's good. Right, that's good.
Now we know they'll hit the over.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
We'll get to that coming up in the four o'clock hour,
and we'll go to Utah, which is where the Bearcats are.
They play at the Huntsman Center, site of Chuck Mayshuck's
ejection from the two thousand and three NCAA tournament.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Bearcats lost that day.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
They take on the Utes the run in Utes of
Utah tonight at ten o'clock. We'll preview that game in
the four o'clock hour as well. Full show rundown is
on Twitter thanks to our friends at Emory Federal Credit Union,
your credit Union with heart since nineteen thirty nine. Go
to Emery FCU dot org. Paul Danner Junior is here

(01:10):
from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Up.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
How's it going.

Speaker 5 (01:15):
I'm doing all right? How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I was I was doing fine and then you ruin
my day? Why did I ruin your day? Because you
had the story of Eric All being done for the season.

Speaker 6 (01:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
I hate this. I hate this for the Bengals. I
hate this for him. You know, you and I were
talking last week about mike Yasicki and how he's really
not a tight end, and then I asked about Eric Hall,
who I feel like, not among people in the building,
not among folks who cover the team, but I feel
like it's just kind of a forgotten guy because he
was hurt for so long. But also he was so

(01:45):
good early in the season, and so, you know, watching
him last year, we talked about like they finally had
the tight end they've been looking for my entire life,
and then when he got hurt, it's like, Okay, well
he did enough to make me think about what he
can do in year two, and now we're not going
to see year two.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah, and so it's it's tough because they you know,
they reformed so much of what they were doing around him.
There was so much hope, you know. We we spent
so much time talking about all these draft picks that
have busted and they've just it's just like, you know,
things that have gone wrong. And then here was the one, like,
at least until November three, shining example of one that

(02:20):
they had gotten like incredibly right. Yeah, and it felt
like this is gonna be a shining piece of this
draft class for a long time. Now. The background on
him was the reason he was available in the fourth
rounds because there was concern about stuff like this. Now
he had had a back thing that wasn't really as
much the concern. There was concern about this knee and

(02:43):
this stability and a potential for you know, a re
injury situation, and when it happened, they was, okay, well
maybe this would be a standard. It's not standard, right.
The basics of it are essentially that it's going to
require two surgeries to fix it instead of just one,
which kind of resets the timeline here in the coming

(03:04):
months and wipes out the twenty five season. The whole
being this will fully put this behind Eric, Yeah, and
then come twenty six that you can start really taking
forth for what they believe is gonna be a great career.
But you know, inherent risk obviously and all this at
this point.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
So he's he's missing the season due to what you
call complications from a previous knee surgery, which is obviously
a result of what he dealt with that Iowa his
last year, which cut that season short.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
And then the fix is going to require two knee surgeries.

Speaker 5 (03:32):
Yeah, one already done, okay, the other one gonna come
here soon to basically like kind of restart that that timeline.
So which it's just you know, it's it's it's awful,
but you you know, they they reset Now they've known
this for a while. It's actually taken a while to
kind of you know, pin it all down. Uh, but
you know it's they're kind of aware this going into

(03:53):
this season, and you you you know, you reset your
approach in free agency in the draft, you know, I
don't you know, they've been able to play the tight
end game pretty well free agency in terms of hatching
these guys together. So's it's nothing insurmountable. It just stinks
for him and for an offense that you started to see, boy,

(04:13):
big time potential of what you can be with this
guy called.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
My favorite player. Yeah in mid October. Yeah, he was right.
He was their favorite player.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
I mean he was they. I never thought we'd see
the day that they would be going out there in
twelve personnel as much as they were, but that was
how they were just saying, like, look, this guy has
to be on the field for us. He changes everything
in terms of the versatility. And then right before his injury,
you started to see him show his chops a little
bit in the passing game, and you're like, oh, man,
if this part comes along, you can really be dangerous.

(04:43):
I think, you know, they hope that the long term
is they still have that, but you know, right now
they just have to focus on getting him right and
making sure that that career can stay intact.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
So I guess on one hand, you might go, Okay,
well they can put this behind him, and that sounds great.
At the same time, it's a college career cut short.
You know, it's a rookie season cut short, and it's
an entire next season not playing football, So like, nobody's
banking on Eric Hall or should be in twenty twenty
six right now, right, there's there's skepticism there. Yeah, so

(05:17):
at that position because the other guy they took McLaughlin
from Arizona whatever happened to him?

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, he around anyway, so can't I mean Cam Grandy
passed him on the exactly.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
So they took two tight ends in the draft last year.
One guy's not going to play, the other's a wall
passed by Cam Grandy. So does this mean that they
have to emphasize tight end in this year's draft?

Speaker 5 (05:40):
I think I think you can? You you do? It
depends on I mean it really it's hard to talk about.
I'm dealing with this right now because it's, uh, can
you guys get us a mock draft season right and
I have? Or Okay, okay, that's not fine. I get it,
Like this your goal's happening right now. How are you

(06:01):
not thinking about the draft? I get it, Like draft
starts and mobile, I'm with you. The draft also starts
after free agency, so it's really I think inevitably almost
every year, I think teams should be looking at tight
end in those mid to mid to late rounds because
you can find guys it's worth shots. This stuff happens, right,
So I think you're always taking that turn. But in

(06:23):
terms of urgency level with it, let's see what happens
in free agency. I think what they've gotten out of
Drew Sample, while unspectacular, has been a life saver, yes,
And what you can do with the other pieces, I mean,
with what they did after eric All went down, the
offense still shine. You can work around it. You have
Gasiki out there, You're throwing it all over the place,

(06:43):
what have you. But if you want to be tougher,
if you want to have more physicality, if you want
to feel like you can pound the run game, short
yardage situations will tell them go to those, to the
eric All movement over and over again. Well, when they
lost that, continue to struggle in short yardage and they
would throw it a ton and all that stuff you need.
You could use another player like that. They're just, you know,
hard to find, and honestly, I think they're they're at

(07:07):
you know, inner goal would have been to find another
erak All this year anyway and go out there with
those two guys together and have the ultimate versatility, right,
And I think that's kind of like go go full,
you know, Gronk and Aaron Hernandez without the bad stuff,
and and but go out there with that, and you
can do that and and really change the whole scope

(07:28):
of what you are offensively so that you should always
be looking fat. And I think they're still looking for
that regardless of this news, and if they can find
it in the right place, I think they're willing to
do it. I don't see them all of a sudden, you know,
valuing tight end higher or anything like that, because it
wasn't exactly a super high value in the first place.
But they're always, you know, interested.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Some are gonna say, well, you took a player coming
out of college dealing with a knee issue, and maybe
that's why he fell to them at four. I would
say a player of his build and caliber was worth using.
But some are gonna say those picks are too precious
to use on a guy with such an injury red flag.
At the same time, it's not like the guy didn't
play last season. He played football, played well last year.

Speaker 5 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean, I don't have a problem with taking
flyers on injury stuff. When you reach day three, like
everybody's got everybody, everybody's got something and you're hoping to
hit the home run, whether it be because of injury,
whether it be because of character, whether it be because
of you know, a physical skill that's not developed yet.
All of that stuff is what Day three is. And

(08:32):
I I think if you're the Bengals, you do it again,
and you do it again tomorrow. Even if you told
me that it's not going to work out for him,
Like if you just said that that's the way it
ends up, you still take the chance because of the
talent and the makeup of the guy. And and if
the body does hold up like it did through those
you know, first nine games last year, you have something

(08:52):
truly special. I think you take that chance every time.
That's the inherent nature of the draft, in my opinion.
I mean, it's just you win some, you lose some.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
I just there were a lot of times early in
the season where I would say to you and others
like that's a dude, like that, that's a dude.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
They knew it instantly.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
And talking to his position coach at Iowa, a former
Bengalis Ju Hodge, and I said, well, compare him to
Sam Laporta. And he said to me, Sam Laporta is awesome.
I love Sam. This guy's better. Yeah, and like, all right,
part of that maybe he's playing to the audience, but
you don't say that I used to.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
I remember talking I remember talking with you about this
in preseason earlier in the year and telling you the
story of it was the look on Dan Pitcher's face
when I brought up that motion thing they were doing
and first time I saw it in camp and I
looked at him and I was like, that feels like
and his face was like, oh, get used to that. Yeah,
it's like we found something here with this guy and

(09:51):
the stuff that he can do, and he you know,
they they were just over the moon with him and
feeling like he can be a true centerpiece. So the
hope being that come twenty twenty six he is that
It's just it stinks for them and for him that
it won't be sooner.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well stinks for me, yeah, for you. I was having
a good day. Yeah, I'm having a fine day.

Speaker 5 (10:14):
I hate that.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
And I went to your page at the Athletic because
I wanted to cite a couple of things from the
Al Golden Story. And then there's this Eric All thing,
which just is a huge turn in the punch bowl,
So thanks so much.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I appreciate it. I hate j'a nice job doing your job.
I'm sorry, I apologize, all right.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
I want to talk about Al Golden, specifically from the
standpoint of something that you did include in your piece
on Al, which you should go read if you haven't
at the Athletic dot Com. And then the the Eric
All thing has for me at least made the big
exercise we're all going to dive into tomorrow a little
bit more difficult mock off season tomorrow. It's tomorrow, all right.

(10:54):
We'll talk about that coming up in just a bit.
Paul Danner Junior, The Growler Podcast and The Athletic Doc
follow on x at Paul Danner Junior. He's here till
four We are here till five thirty today on ESPN
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Speaker 4 (11:47):
ESPN fifteen to thirty, Moegger, Paul Danner Juniors here as
he is every single Tuesday, the Athletic dot Com and
The Growler Podcast. You did a a good in depth
look at Al Golden's defense with Charlie God.

Speaker 5 (12:00):
Yeah, I've been loving the Charlie rewatches. We've got a
lot of fun that he's excellent, of course, as your
listeners know, but it's been fun to dive into those
and he is thorough and and we yeah, he's got
all kinds of good stuff in there. It was a
lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
So you and writing about Al Golden, I was watching
the games on Sunday and we had talked about like,
and this is exact verbiage that Al used yesterday, that
the line has never been more blurred between pro and
college football. Yeah, And my instant thought about that was
just the way the two institutions work. The players are paid,
they're basically pro athletes playing college football. I'm watching the

(12:39):
games on Sunday, and I often thought to myself, they're
running college offenses, even the Kansas City Chiefs, who typically
don't do this. I'm watching the Bills, the Commanders, the
Eagles specifically, but also the Chiefs, and they're running college offenses. Yes,
And then I started to think about Al Golden. And
then in your piece about Al you kind of talk
about how schematically there's never been less of a distinction

(13:01):
between the two college and pro football.

Speaker 5 (13:03):
Yeah, and so if you're gonna.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Hire a guy from college, this is the kind of
guy and this is the time to make sense.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
And How made that exact comment in his press conference. Yeah,
he's like when I was sort of asking about the merging,
and he's like, yeah, I mean, watch the watching the
games the other day. There they are. They're they're running
the RPOs, they're doing they're doing the quarterback design run stuff.
This is all stuff that they plotted for every single
week in Notre Dame. And and and you know you
have to look at not just that, I mean, and

(13:29):
if you're gonna talk about well players, young players, older players,
money's involved, not just that, I mean, there's guys on
Notre Dame that are older than on half the linebacker,
half the players on the roster I mentioned, like Jack Kyser, whatever.
But I mean, you talk about guys that are twenty five,
twenty six years old in college now and you know, yeah, men,
I mean exactly, and you're you're you know what you're teaching.

(13:51):
It's it's not all that different, uh, And we've just
seen so much of it translate that I don't think
that there was any any concern there, certainly from Zach
Taylor's point of view or from a translatable point of view.
And you look at Will that what he did at
other day move over to Cincinnati, Will Short. I mean,
it's a lot of the same stuff that you're trying
to stop. And the talent level is different and the

(14:12):
quarterback level is different, but theoretically you have better players
as well. And I think the hope is that his
kind of continuous history and something he pointed out of
how many freshmen he kind of was able to get
ready to play on the fly last year and you
look at that and how well they instantly played and
they dealt with the injuries. It's it's no different than

(14:32):
rookies having to come in when guys get hurt and
and and playing through that and having a certain standard
and level. And he certainly comes across like you here,
it's it's it's focus on the details, all energy, you know, stability,
He sort of he gives that off without question, no nonsense,

(14:53):
and that's what they're looking for. Does that mean he's
going to be a great coordinator here, I don't know,
but I mean I think of it's certainly and feels
the part of what they were looking for out of
that position.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
I listened to him answer a question about the slow starts. Yeah,
And I like what he had to say about like
it's it's going to start for us in the spring,
and I think what he does, he's not gonna he's
not gonna tip his hand all that much. But but
there was I think an acknowledgment that yes, organizationally me
included obviously this has to get fixed, because that's my
biggest issue with the Cincinnia Bengals right now, are the

(15:27):
the over septembers constantly playing catch up and then not
looking prepared week one.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
Yeah, and I think that is you know, it sounded
like he was speaking from a place that he had
been speaking with Zach Taylor about this exact concept, like,
we've got to be better early in the season. It's
going to be a focus of the offseason. I you
know the old I see better than I hear, right, Marv, Marv.
But in this case, I'll see what I'm looking at

(15:54):
during OTAs in that time of year, if that looks
at all different, if they use more of that time,
if there's more competitive periods, if there's more work there,
I'd be interested in that more than I would be
people saying that they plan on trying to start faster
or whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
You wrote about Al's commutes from here to South Bend
and the speeding.

Speaker 5 (16:14):
Ticket, Yeah, the ticket. I needed more. I needed more
background on that.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
So my last speeding ticket knock on Wood two thousand
and eight, about thirty miles outside of South Bend. I
think it's on Route two thirty one, if I'm not mistaken.
Hustling to a UC versus Notre Dame basketball game and
I got a ticket, and the guy pulls me over
and he walks up to the car, and I have
my stuff waiting, and I go high officer. I'm kind

(16:40):
of in a rush and he goes, that's why I
pulled you over, and that is my last ticket. Is
there anybody who has driven that that stretch? And I've
driven it, I don't know, eight or nine times and
not gotten a speeding ticket at some point that period,
that stretch between and I've seen all the cop cars
between Indianapolis and South Bend. That is one gigantic Hoo's

(17:03):
your state speed trap? Yes, yes, I've.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
Driven it a few times because it's been part of
our path when we would go vacation to Michigan right
and knock on one, not gotten one. Now, I don't
know if I have I certainly don't have as much
time on that road as ou Golden did, no doubt.
But I've done it enough and I'm proud. But you're right,
I mean, it is a constant state of monitoring and

(17:28):
just there they are every time. I'm happy to say
I don't have one. But maybe when you already.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Played Notre Dame in the football in twenty twenty one,
played on a Saturday, and I knew folks who like
you know, kind of got their tailgate, go after it,
enjoy the game, and then enjoy themselves and then they're
like what, we're just going to drive back tonight, and
it's like, don't do that.

Speaker 5 (17:50):
Don't do it.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Don't do it. Number one, you just shouldn't do that.
Number two, you're begging for it on that stretch, like,
just don't. So how often was he commuting between here
and South Bend?

Speaker 5 (17:59):
You know, I think a decent amount, But I would
you know, when you get into the full part of
the off season. Yeah, you know, you're you're not when
you're not really on campus anyway doing anything. Work from home,
you I think it's kind of a work from home,
but I mean it's pretty often. I mean it seemed
it seemed like it was a you know, not a
rare occurrence for sure. Uh, but you know, you're kind

(18:20):
of like every night. It's not every night that would
be great, get up at three am, drive to South Bed,
put in a work day at midnight. You know, how
are you supposed to sleep in the office if you
do that? Exactly? I mean you can't, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Precious hours he could have been working on on game plans.
All right, it's mock off season time.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Uh, And we're going to dive into it, you and
I tomorrow on the Growler podcast. The mock Off Season Spreadsheet,
which for the uninitiated is it's it's a a working
document that allows you to make personnel decisions based on
what the players are going to make. And you could
allocate funds to raft choices specific players they could acquire

(19:03):
in free agency, players they could extend. You can free
up money by cutting guys. It's usually a lot of fun.
This year very very difficult and painful. It's not out yet.
It comes out tomorrow, but you did give me a
chance to play with it as a sneak preview.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
I'm here for you and I want to spend some
time on it when we come back.

Speaker 5 (19:22):
Looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
I mock Off Season time twenty eight minutes after three o'clock.
Paul Danner Junior Fromthathletic dot com. He's here till four
o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (19:32):
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(20:02):
an injury accident on Main Street over at Third Street.
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Speaker 4 (20:08):
Of lifetime, power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from
their family to yours for life. Kelseyshev dot com Rads
have signed free agent outfielder Austin Hayes to a one year,
five million dollar contract. This originally reported by Ken Rosenthal
of the Athletic Deal Penza Physical includes a million dollars
in incentives. He was traded by Baltimore, traded from one

(20:30):
first place team to another at the deadline last year,
sent to Philadelphia. He did not do well in Philly.
Hayes two fifty six with a six seventy two ops.
The Phillies non tendered him. His arbitration number was a
projected six point four. He did deal with a major
kidney issue last year that I guess reports out of

(20:51):
Philadelphia indicate that that issue had been perhaps bothering him
before he was even traded.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Now.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Prior to this, he was an All Star with the
Orioles in twenty twenty three. He's always hit left handed
pitching pretty well. So Austin Hayes a red corner autfielder.
We'll talk about that a little bit in further detail
in the four o'clock hour. Unfortunately, the bad news continues
for Eric All, who tour his ACL on November third.
Our guy Paul Danner Junior reports that he has expected

(21:18):
to miss the twenty twenty five season due to complications
from knee surgery.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
That he had in college college basketball. Tonight, you See
is on the road at Utah ten o'clock tip tonight.
The Uts are eleven and eight here.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
The game on seven hundred WLW Nolamont Butler for the Wildcats.
UK's at Tennessee Volunteers coming off of lost Auburn Kentucky
coming off a loss on Saturday. The Vanderbilt tip off
at seven pregame at five thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty.
The NKU Coaches Show is on Fox Sports thirteen sixty
at six o'clock. Also tonight, Miami coming off its first

(21:51):
lost in MAC play as a home game against Eastern
Michigan and the Dayton Flyers.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Are at Saint Bonaventure. Paul Danner Junior is here.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
What's up.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
It's mock off season time.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
It's time. It's time we finally made it.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
This exercise is frustrating, it's educational.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
It is a useful tool to help you.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Understand how certain decisions might impact other decisions. And this
one's really difficult because of some of the real tough
choices the Bengals have.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
But I did find it therapeutic.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Yeah, because I went ahead and cut seven players from
last year's team.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
Is that where you started?

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, Media, You've got these different offense, defense, draft picks,
special teams acquired picks right, and it's a fun exercise.
You'll have it up tomorrow at the athletic You can
make trades. I just went right to Kutz and I
was ruthless. Okay, this is not.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
A political statement, but if you think what the President
of the United States is doing with government workers is rough,
what I did to Sam Hubbard, Sheldon Rankins, Alex Kappa, Ginostone,
Jermaine Prat, Cordell Volson, and Zach Moss much more ruthless.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
Yeah. Well, I mean, look, it's true. We talked with
this last week and sort of putting this thing together.
It's the the unique nature of this year, this offseason
is just that is all the amount of money that
they can cut and save and then reallocate to different
players and depending on what last week your your point was,

(23:18):
I don't want any of these guys going through a
list of potential cuts. You can do that and you
add like fifty million dollars potentially up to your cat.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
Forty five point four million dollars. Is what I've said
is by cutting those seven dudes.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
That's right. You let you let Ted Carris hang on.
He was the only other name on there. Yeah, I
kept t Carris. Everybody else had. But I mean, that's
to me, that's the interesting nature of what they can
do here, is they they can how far down do
they want to go? How far in the past do
they want to leave last year? How much hope do
they have of of you know, anything from these guys.

(23:53):
There's just a lot of money tied up in them
to clear to clear up, and then you can see
all kinds of different directions that you can go and
where did you go from there?

Speaker 4 (24:02):
So that's where I started. Then it got difficult, Yeah,
it does because and the main reason why I was,
I wanted to address a lot of positions via the draft. Well,
then I needed to acquire more draft picks, So then
I traded Trey Hendrickson. But he's their one good defensive player,
and so you and I have talked about this a lot.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
That to me is the most interesting.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
He's the most say what you one about t Higgins
who has occupied a ton of time and airspace and
column inches Like the Trey Hendrickson thing, to me is
just it's beyond difficult because he's a great player and
they don't have that many great, many good players on defense.
I'm okay players on defense right now, and if I'm

(24:43):
Al Golden, I'm going to coach Trey Hendrickson. Yeah, But
I also I need this defense to be overhauled and
that requires draft capital and he's the one guy who
can get it. So where I have gotten stuck doing
this it is with him specifically, because at a lot
of the positions, here's here's this, or my my ultimate conundrum,
I guess lies how much can I prioritize guard in

(25:06):
the draft? And then from there I then tried to
make other decisions because I whent's screwing with this thing,
and I'm not done because you're not going to talk
about it on your podcast tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, I'm not done.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
But all right, So if I if I do what
they don't do and take a guard in round one,
which I prioritize, but then I only have so much
draft capital to address corner and edge, rusher and other
areas on the defense, it gets difficult. But at the
same time, like, how what do I do with guard?

Speaker 6 (25:39):
Then?

Speaker 4 (25:39):
So those are the two things that I got stuck on.
What to do with Trey and what to do with guard.

Speaker 5 (25:44):
I think the interesting part of this conversation why I
like it every year is it forces you to prioritize.
It forces you to do that rather than say you
want everything, which is what so many of us do.
I think you have to look at what position group
are you willing to go forward with and say, I'm
comfortable with this group being what it is. And I

(26:04):
think for me, when you look at it this way,
it's the secondary. Yes, it's it's yeah, I'm gonna live
with this.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
I found myself screwing with that area less than the others.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Yeah, And I think, you know, the genostone question is
interesting because I think you could move on from Genostone
and you save the money and you can reallocate that soon.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
As Mike Kilton we were talking off air, Yeah, I've
done this exercise where where I've moved on, and I've
done this exercise where I've kept them.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
It's an interesting amount of money. I mean, for for
what Mike Kilton is and whether you want to say,
but I think you know, if you're gonna look at
would you rather use that nine million dollars in cap
money to another edge rusher or a defensive tackle like
a BJ Hill type maybe you know something like that,
If that's what you want to do, when then it
might it probably means not bringing back Mike Hilton because

(26:52):
of all the things, the trenches, you know, the guards,
all this other stuff tight and you're gonna bring back
Asiki all of these things that you've got to get
locked down before that. I think you end up where
I think with the secondary you say, all right, I'm
willing to let this ride, and I think that's a
sense you get a little bit from them. That's kind

(27:13):
of the area where Al Golden can come in and
have his biggest impact is getting these young secondary players
to play confidently, to play together, to play with feeling
like things are simple and they understand it a little
bit of what you saw the last five weeks of
the season. Yeah, but to get Dax Hill and Cam
Taylor Britt and Jordan Battle and dj Turning all those

(27:34):
guys to become that and I think at a certain point,
due to just the restrictions that they have, they're probably
gonna have to make that bet, like that's probably where
they're gonna have to let it fly and hope that
they can put it together back there.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
So you have different slots for the corner CB one,
CB two, CB four slot corner. The one where I
shrugged my shoulders and said all right was cornerback one
Cam Taylor Britt.

Speaker 5 (27:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
I mean this is a player who got bench last
year and then, to his credit, came back and played okay, right,
but boy, for two thirds of the season that was
a disaster.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
I mean he got benched multiple he got benched. Yeah,
and so that's fresh in my mind. Yet the way
you put it is perfect, Like there's there's just some
guys that I'm gonna have to go, dude, we got
to coach them up and figure out figure out a
way to make it work and hopefully different coordinator, different group,
different season, more experience that they figure it out. And

(28:33):
so that thought process it trickled down from CB one
and I went with Cam and I literally shrugged my
shoulders and went, Okay, here we go.

Speaker 5 (28:41):
It's so hard to find CEB one. That's just it
like it's expensive, or you're using your first round pick
like Philly did on Quiny and Mitchell, I mean you
and and I don't think the Bengals can afford to
do that with their problems on the line. If your
their first round pick can come from a no, no,
I wouldn't. No, one's really gonna have a huge problem
their first round pick is you know, is a corner

(29:03):
or what if that's the guy right that's the best player. Fine,
but let's be honest in a real world, the ideal
scenario here is their first round pick plays with his
hand next to the line of scrimmage somewhere, and probably
on the defensive side of it is more than likely
where that needs to come from. And so I think
to think that you're going to go find that, you're
you're probably not going to go pay for that when
you have all the other things you need to do

(29:23):
and the pie, there's a pie. But if when you're
dealing with all of that, you're probably not going to
go to the corner route. You're probably going to be
spending your money and your draft at location on some
of these more problematic areas, like protecting Joe Burrow and
getting more pass rush which has been which was the
problem last year, and just kind of being bigger and
more physical on the inside in general. So that's kind

(29:43):
of definitely a theme that stood out to me, and
going through this is and then but then you're like, well,
what's out there? Yeah, you know, and there's some places
where it's it's just it's it's not as much as
you'd want, or some places where I think this is actually, uh,
there are so many options on the defen line. It
should be very encouraging for Bengals fans, between free agency
and a very very deep draft in the first two

(30:07):
rounds on the defensive line, in both interior and on
edge rushers, to feel like they, if done properly, they
could really get this done right.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Okay, So if I trade tray on your exercise and
cut all those guys that I've whacked.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I now have ninety three and a half million dollars.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
Well, if I'm that deep on the edge, and I'm
that deep on the defensive line, then I can soften
the blow from trading away my best defensive player.

Speaker 5 (30:33):
Theoretically. Yeah, I mean I think that you could, you
could sign. The idea would have to be that you're
obviously spending premium draft capital on your defensive run and
probably an edge rusher at the top. You're banking on
something from Miles Murphy at some point, but your your
one sack.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
What one sack would be a huge upgrade.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
Let's get two more than last year. Yeah, yeah, I
think you know, you could be talking about, you know,
spending in a mid level in free age and getting
somebody like I think there's guys anybody a Zizo Juli
or or there. There's there's some ad judges in when
you go into the list where you're not spending sick
you know, I keep spending that much money, but you're

(31:12):
spending eight to ten million dollars in cap space, and
you're getting somebody who is who's who's more than solid
should be able to get you something off the edge.
And if you put a bunch of young top picks
around them. You're betting on the you know, the aggregate,
helping to make up for what you lose.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
At the same time, like, you say this out loud,
and it's not gonna make.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Any sense, right, No, it makes no sense. Trey Hendrickson
is a defense one year Hendrickson right one year?

Speaker 5 (31:39):
One year? I that right.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
One year, Trey Hendrickson is a Defensive Player of the
Year finalist. Your defense stunk last year, You're gonna trade him? Like,
when you say it out loud, it's it's mind boggling.
But but but when you when you do an exercise
like this, and then you just understand where he is
in his career and look at all their tea needs.

(32:01):
Like I hate to say it, but that's kind of
what I settled on because I want ninety three million
dollars to spend.

Speaker 5 (32:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and if you think you can
spend it better, I mean do The problem is do
you end up spending it where you're just spending it
on another guy, but who you don't know, But maybe
you have him for longer, maybe he's younger. Because I
think that's part of the conversation with Tray Hendrickson at
this point, a guy who's crossed over thirty now, and
how long is he gonna be able to keep up

(32:27):
this level of play.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
He's probably never gonna have a year like this is
absolutely page one A in the Patriots Bill Belichick playbook.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
Yes, this was the exact example. That they have ten
of these over the course of the two decades where
they were winning was they would take this guy with
one year left who was thirty years old, who was
in high demand. They would sell high and they would
get a bunch of young players and picks for him
and reallocate and keep it churning. This is a prime
example of proactive roster management versus potentially reactive And I'm

(32:59):
not saying saying that it's a bad thing and it's
totally reactive. It's kind of more of an all in
move to keep Trey Hendrickson at this point rather than
to sell because then you're thinking more about the future years.
But this is what it is, like, are you going
to try to be proactive and build for the longer
haul or is this gonna be like, hey, one more
ride with Trey and and let him go get more

(33:20):
sacks and maybe he just plays out of spite. All
I know is I don't want to be the one
to tell him that you're just forcing him to go
play on that contract this year, even though they very
much it's it within their rights to do.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
But it comes back to something else.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
You and I have talked about the quest for a
quiet offseason in training camp. Well, keeping Trey but not
extending him likely doesn't doesn't reduce the amount of noise
that we don't want to hover around this team over
the next eight months.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
Right, Yeah, I just there's gotta be I mean, there's
gonna be some noise there. I don't and I don't know.
Maybe Trey has come to terms, Yeah, with the situation,
I'm gonna guess that we're not gonna hear nothing from there.
Maybe he's come to terms with the fact that this
is what it is and now one more great year

(34:09):
and he can actually hit free agency. Maybe not. I don't.
I don't know, but I feel like there's it's not
gonna do. I don't see a version where it's quiet.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
So in my merciless cost cutting here, this felt good.
This this like I felt like a bean counter at
a media company. I mean, looking at the spreadsheet. We're
just whacking people didn't even really think about it. So Hubbard,
Rankin's cap as Stone, Pratt, Volsen, Moss. Then I'm thinking, like,
do I announce these all in one fell swoop? Yeah,

(34:40):
because as you know, sometimes you get the press release
from the Bengals and it's like, well we cut this guy,
see you. But then sometimes it's a player of stature
and there has to be a quote from the coach.
And then sometimes it's a player of real stature and
it's a quote from the coach and a video and
a video and like a thank you Twitter video and
Mike Brown has a quote. So like Sheldon Rankins wouldn't

(35:01):
qualify for any of that. Alex Kappa, no Gino Stone,
no Jermaine Pratt's tough has some iconic moments in this
franchise's history.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
Yeah, he might get a video.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
You might get a video. Cordell Volson. I mean, are
there videos of guards? I don't think exact much. You
could take a still shot of the injury report, and
but Sam Hubbard, you gotta do something cool.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
Remember when Volson ran out in front of the screen
and he hit like the fastest time for an offensive
lineman on the Bengals, like since Frank Pollack had been here,
you remember that play? No, that's the one that's the video.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
I don't that's what it is. Trayvon Williams on the Uh.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
I don't think he's gonna make you know, you don't
need to go there, like you just want to go
there at this point.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
It's we did an entire segment two weeks ago. No
honoring Trayvon Williams, celebrating him.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
We want to make an award for him.

Speaker 5 (35:55):
It's true.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
No, I all right, Uh, Tarren, how are we on time?
We're bad on time to have should break now and
do another minute with Paul or just do another minute here?

Speaker 5 (36:08):
Just do another minute here.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
What of these following people stands out to you? Pete Carroll,
Liam Cohen, Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson, Brian Schottenheimer And this
dude's gonna work out?

Speaker 5 (36:18):
I think Ben Johnson might work out. Yeah, I mean,
you've got a talented quarterback and an extremely talented play caller.
I don't know about the rest of it. I don't
know if he knows how to be a head coach,
but I bet that offense can cook.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Brian Schottenheimer. I kind of said to myself, really, does
the Cowboys always have to do this? Well?

Speaker 4 (36:36):
So what's so interesting about them is like the Cowboys
you think of like splash, you know, and their coaches,
with the exception of Bill Parcels, for the last thirty years,
have been Brian Schottenheimer's.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
Yeah, constantly uninspiring. I wonder why that is. Is there
any common.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Thread, no man to all of these coaching hires where
they would continually be uninspiring?

Speaker 5 (36:57):
I don't know what could it possibly be. I have
no idea.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
I can't even place it. Don't know.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Pete Carroll over under on number of games he coaches
in Las Vegas, over under twenty and a half over over.
I think it's gonna work out, do you? I kind
of like, really, I kind of like Pete Carroll. It's
a great coach. Well, look, every what're not gonna be
He's got Al Davis's kid running the team. They're a mess.
They're a mess. But you know what, give me, give me,
give me.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Pete Carroll, give me with gum chewing energy like Carroll competition. Yeah,
and uh and let I mean I feel like it's
there's a chance it's better than it better it was.
I think he does Okay, he definitely lasts more than
twenty games.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Mark that what about the weirdo in Jacksonville?

Speaker 5 (37:40):
You just I always you just just don't be a meme, right,
Like it's our constant deal, don't be a meme, And
they just don't do it at your opening press conference.
I don't know. I feel like he's gonna be pretty
happily counting his money and it really doesn't matter. I
probably be a meme for that money.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
Can we find a way to put something in the
ball so that we don't have to guess when quarterbacks
or other players hit the line to gain I.

Speaker 5 (38:04):
Thought there was a chip in the ball. This happened
a couple years ago, Like they knew at this one
point that the ball had gone over the line, And
I'm like, can we just put the chip in the ball.
Why don't we have the chip in the ball at
this point? Why?

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Why is this the method that we use to determine
It's brutal, help determine the outcome of AFC Championship games.

Speaker 5 (38:19):
It's over and over again. It's just always it's always something.
I mean it's hard, the game is hard to officiate
in that point. But I there just has to be
a way. There's just no way. There's not a way
to figure this thing out at this point. And that's
and this is from I love when the chain comes out. Yeah,
the chain gang comes out, and then they get you
get the stretch. Yeah, right, like I'm here. I enjoy that.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
There's always that moment right before that final stretch where
the crowd holds its breath.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
Here's my thing. You don't have to lose that. It's
like robo umps. They have the like ear piece in
that tells them put it a link short or put
it and he just puts it down and you see
how far he's gonna pull. He slowly pulls, and he
knows where he's putting. It doesn't have anything to do
with actual He just moves it beyond the ball. Maybe
he does it with like the kite gets to do
the hand signal. Still, I'm all for that, keep that,

(39:08):
but just just tell them ahead of time.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
I was listening to a podcast the other morning, and
the gentleman that I was listening to was talking about,
like plausibly we can get to Mars and I'm like,
that's pretty cool. We can't figure out a way to
figure out the ball across the line in a football game,
We're gonna go to mars.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, maybe there could be a rover Like there's like
a little like a rover route on the field that
just kind of constantly measuring, giving us better angles. Paul Tanner,
Junior at the Athletic dot Com.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Not a great idea The Growler Podcast. I'll join you
tomorrow for more on the mock off season. Yeah, looking
forward to Thank you very much. We'll go to Utah.
You see takes on Utah tonight next to ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (39:47):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the uc.

Speaker 8 (39:59):
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Speaker 2 (40:30):
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Okay, that's pay enter it now.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Hey, Tay, what's up? Knefner Maegar. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thank you so much for listening. Done early today at
five thirty, We're done UK basketball. It takes over the
Wildcats battling Tennessee tonight tip off a.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Seven pregame at five thirty.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Later on this evening the Huntsman Center, which is then
you were Chuck mayshat got kicked out of a game
during the two thousand and three NCAA Tournament. The UCE
Bearcats try to go one for two in Utah, with
the game against the Utah Running Utes ten o'clock tip
at nine thirty. Pre game on seven hundred WLW enjoying
I Guess Day number five in Utah, covering the Bearcats

(41:20):
for The Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com to talk about
U See hoops in the aftermath of Saturday's twenty eight
point blowout loss to BYU and what folks like me
hope is a win Tonight our friend, Scott Springer is
with his house Utah.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Well, Utah is beautiful. It's just wonderful. You look out.

Speaker 9 (41:39):
I'm at my place in Salt Lakes City here near
Utah looking at the mountains again, escape them. It's majestic.
It just gets ugly when you get to a basketball court.
So that needs to be fixed.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
It does, it does? I guess I'll ask you the
same question. I got a lot yesterday about Saturday night
and that is what was that?

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (42:01):
You got me.

Speaker 5 (42:02):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
It was one of those games.

Speaker 9 (42:04):
And you know, if you follow this historically, UC typically
has not won in recent years when they're down at
the half. So when you were up one against Kansas,
there was some reason for hope.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Maybe you pull that out. The only game they won this.

Speaker 9 (42:17):
Year went down a halftime was Zaber Skyline Chili Crosstown shootout.
So when Siemos hits a three and ties it at
twenty three, you're thinking, well maybe uh, And then they
get the ball back, they draw up a play, Data
gets a decent shot missus and then Demon gets fouled.

(42:37):
Igor Ig or whatever his name is, just you can shoot.
But you know he scored the final five points of
the half, and he cans with three to start the
second half, and it's just a runaway train after that.
And you know, typically, you know, I don't know if
it's an insider secret or not, but you know, okay,

(42:57):
I have to get something in at the buzzer as
quick as I can, some semblance of a story.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
We come back and we update to put quotes in
and pritty it up.

Speaker 9 (43:07):
But you know, a lot of games, you kind of
have a feeling where it's going to go. So you
start writing one way, and I've had it backfire on
me a couple of times, and you're hitting delete, delete
the lead. But I'm telling you this game about fifteen
minutes ago, I'm writing it out. You know, it's I
think the time out at sixty to forty two. I

(43:30):
think there might have been eleven minutes left, and I
remember writing, and you know, I'm fully dated references.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
But the Great Lou Panella would say, you know, I've
seen enough.

Speaker 9 (43:40):
And I said, if former Reds manager Lou Panella was here,
he'd say I've seen enough. Because it was ridiculous that
caught fire. There's seventeen thousand crazy people there, all wired
on milkshakes and dairy products and stuff, and it was nuts.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
It is a very intense atmosphere.

Speaker 9 (44:00):
I will tell you that last year's went there was
highly impressive to me because they came back from being
down seven and half and then won by eleven. And
I thought as nuts as Allan field House was, I
thought the the b YU game was crazier. So it
didn't surprise me that their fans were nuts. My wife

(44:20):
and my youngest son and his wife were there and
they got the experience it and they were, you know, bling
away by it too.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
It's just a tough place to play.

Speaker 9 (44:28):
And if they're hitting their threes like that, I mean
that m looked like a hula hoop to them. They
were just firing them in at will, you know, throw
them over their head. It's like globe trotters in Washington Generals.
And I don't think it was a great secret that
DYU shoot Freeze and then the other thing, Uh, Cincinnati's
not shot him very well. So after the game, asked

(44:51):
Kevin Young, did you expect them to shoot that many threes?

Speaker 1 (44:54):
And he said, well, we had hoped that they would.

Speaker 9 (44:56):
Basically, you know, we didn't want them to throw it
in because they've been so tough in the paint, and
so there's a reason they fired of twenty eight. And
if you look, but it's not for seemos. Semos goes
four for eight, the rest of the team goes one
for twenty. That's not winning basketball. Now, if I had
the great answer for it, I'd surely tell West my

(45:19):
job is easier when West Miller wins. But if we're
looking at at facts, it's like something's not working and
it needs to change, like now, preferably tonight. You and
I have been on road tress with teams. Life is
better when you can go home with a win. You
feel better about your job. Everybuck feels better. And then

(45:40):
you know if they can pull one out tonight. And
now I see they're favored by a point and a half.
It kind of flipped during the day. Then you got
West Virginia Sunday.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Not a gimme.

Speaker 9 (45:51):
Your next handful of games are against teams that are
in similar straits as you. You know, Utah's in the
same boat.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
They need wins. They've been slumping. Some Virginia's dropped two.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
In a row.

Speaker 9 (46:01):
Here they've been jack one high. And then you see
f is a very dangerous team. You have to go
there next week. They played some really good games. They're
tough there, and that's your next opportunity at a Quad one.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Win at UCF.

Speaker 9 (46:19):
Because West Virginia is now not a Quad one opportunity
neither tonight. Your next opportunity is on the road at UCF.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
You know, I think we knew a couple of things
going into Saturday. I knew that was going to be
a tough environment. Knew it was going to be a
team that liked to shoot threes and had some guys
who could get hot, and that obviously happened.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
We know that you see is not a good three
point shooting team.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
We know they're not a good outside shooting team, and
maybe that changes, but they haven't been all season long.
I think what a lot of people took issue with
was just how the game looked. The Bearcats effort listless
would apply. Some have accused the team of quitting. I
think that's a heavy accus. You were there, You've watched
a lot of college basketball, You've watched some of the

(47:06):
some teams known for how hard they play and for
effort and for toughness and things like that. What would
you say to someone who said that that team on
Saturday night from an effort perspective quit.

Speaker 9 (47:18):
It's tough to debate, to be honest with you, Now
I'm sitting way up high because you press row. Used
to be right on the court so you could see
faces and expressions.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
And get more of a pulse of the game.

Speaker 9 (47:30):
So now they move you up a little bit, and
with minus binoculars, it's kind of tough to get the.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Real feel of it.

Speaker 9 (47:36):
But what I did see is I just don't like
the body language I'm seeing out of some guys.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And here's the deal. Let's face facts.

Speaker 9 (47:42):
I wrote this today and you kind of tap dance
around it to be polite.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
But okay, you were.

Speaker 9 (47:49):
Happy to get seven guys back or nine or whatever
it was, But okay, do the math.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I'm guessing they got an increase.

Speaker 9 (48:00):
You know, the players are now paid, so I guess
it was in their best interest to return. And everyone
was happy that they returned, and they blew out Ohio
State and in the game that didn't count, and everyone
was happy that they returned. And now it's like, well, dudes,
you know, if you're wanting to advance your career, maybe
you need to produce because diminishing returns.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
I know, in our.

Speaker 9 (48:23):
Business and a lot of businesses, it doesn't fly. You
get cut, you get whacked. And I don't know what
league they think they're going to go in if they're
looking to go to the league from here.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
But do you see an NBA player out there? You
see one?

Speaker 9 (48:38):
I mean, I don't know what if we're going to
go to the league, you know, maybe there's an industrial
league somewhere. The G League probably is a pay cut,
you know, And maybe that sounds harsh to people, but
it's the truth. If the players want to be paid,
and that's the way the system is now going. The

(49:00):
expectations are there, you know, so who much is given,
much is expected and they have to start producing.

Speaker 6 (49:07):
I know.

Speaker 9 (49:07):
Rick Barnes has told his team at Tennessee in so
many words what I just said, and it's like, Okay,
you guys want this now you need to produce, and
right now you're not producing. I'm just a guy that
writes about it. I've got no halftime speeches. But that's
just what I see.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Yeah, and it's fair.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
At the same time, they're getting paid everywhere, right, I mean,
And there are a lot of players who have come
back to the school that they were at last year,
and I'm sure we're financially incentivized to do so. And
I don't know in how many of those places they're
talking about effort it's but I think that was the
takeaway from Saturday. You could say, well, find you know,
blowouts happened, and you can talk about how BYU was

(49:49):
eleven for fifteen from three and you know what, it
could have been one of those nights. Number one, they've
had one of those nights now twice within the last
three weeks. And number two, I don't think it was
that that stood out to a lot of people and
made people here, Matt, it was that team lacked energy,
looked listless, and if you want to go down this road,
I can't argue against it.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
It looked like they quit.

Speaker 9 (50:11):
Yeah, well, and at some point you kind of need
to change something just for the sake of at least trying.
And West doesn't seem to want to change the lineup.
And I don't know if that's the answer or not,
but let's look. You know, three starters from last year's
went over by U are here, and you know Dade

(50:34):
was starting last year and Gisel came off the bench
and Disease played a much better game. What are you
missing though, You're missing some rebounding now, Victor Lockin had
a pretty good game last year seventeen and seven, I believe.
Now toward the end of the season, you know, his
playing time diminish, and so did Jamie Reynolds. But you know,

(50:54):
I don't see that guy that can come in and
get you some boards and give you some postman now, Ironton.
If you look at the minute he plays and his
offensive production, I think he's doing pretty well. And he's young,
as he is pretty much a lob or nothing, and
he's very intimidating at the basket, you know, blocking shots
and all that. But when he is an off game,

(51:16):
it's very very evident. And you know, I knew he
had some back issues coming into the game, so I
don't know if that was a factor. Skillings can give
a little bit of pack of a pass because he
got blasted in the eye, so you know, six points
and one rebound with one eye, and he kept playing.
But overall, Dan Skillings is averaging two less rebounds than

(51:39):
he did a year ago, and that was his forte
That's why Wes Miller picked him out of the crowd
when he was seventeen years old. He saw this kid
in a rebounding like no other, and so he gets
this this kid with the wingspan and everything, and he's
he's capable of having just lonster games.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
But I don't know.

Speaker 9 (51:58):
They defended him well, he was injured. His numbers are down.
Dylan Mitchell has been great in some games, but his
rebounding numbers from Texas are down, and Pandego is not
rebounding like he did a year ago. Crass the boards
get the ball, and you know it's like you said,

(52:18):
effort and toughness are things that you can see and
I don't know that you can always coach them. You
can try, but it's something that is certainly needed right now.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
No question about that. How good is Utah on paper?

Speaker 9 (52:37):
If you look on paper, you know you see how
to be a lot better and beating a lot of teams.
I think they're dangerous. I mean, let's face facts. They
just beat the Uyu who beat U. See now that's
kind of like a zeber Uc game here because those
two schools hate one another. But if seventy three seventy
two in overtime in Utah got to win. They're recent games,
they've not played well. If they score under seventy, they lose.

(53:00):
They've only lost three at home Houston down at Houston
that they held them to thirty six points. But you
know the Cougars or Final four material. But yeah, if
you see confined the defense that they had before the
last two games and hold them down and then find
a way to maybe get near seventy.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
They should win. I mean should they win, Yeah, probably
should win.

Speaker 9 (53:26):
But you know, when you're on the road, weird things happen,
and can you rebound from what happened against BYU.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
You have to erase that.

Speaker 9 (53:35):
So I know they got to practice in the Utah
Jazz facility. I'm hoping that maybe some of those pros
were telling them, you guys don't know how well you
have it.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
So they're two hundred and ninety six in the country
and three point shooting percentage. I think a lot of
us thought this was going to be a decent outside
shooting team. I don't recall thinking they were going to
be a great outside shooting team. Would have lost a
lot of money if you would have told me they
would go into the last game in January barely on

(54:05):
the inside of the top three hundred in the country.
How good of an outside shooting team should we have
thought this was going to be.

Speaker 9 (54:13):
I would have thought them to be better. But right
now you have one guy that's that's over thirty percent
in the Big twelve games, and that's Skillings. Sea Moss
has come up. He's up to twenty nine. Gisel James
now two for twenty six. Tyler Betsy, who hit everything
in December, is now two for I don't know exactly
off the top of my head, but he's only made two.

(54:34):
He's taking no way more than two if he hits him.
You know, life is different, but you got to work
for him. In this league, you know, you need better
ball movement and you can't just chuck the ball back
and forth between two guards and somebody throws up a
desperation shot at twenty nine seconds, which is not going
to work. Seams can every now and then hit one

(54:56):
of those, but they need something.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
You know.

Speaker 9 (55:00):
I'm not the ex's and those guys, they're not paying
me for that, and I just have to report on
what I see. But I'm seeing what a lot of
people see, and it wasn't pleasant to watch what I
saw late at night. I'm sure a lot of people
had a tough time sleeping that night.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
I'm one of them. Yes, no question about it.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Well, enjoy the remainder of your time in Utah, and selfishly,
I hope you report on a win tonight.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
Thank you, as always.

Speaker 9 (55:26):
I would would hope to report on a wind tonight. Again,
I'm about me. It makes my job a lot easier.
And it's West Miller's birthday, and so you know, maybe
he gets a birthday win. And Dan Skilling's birthday was yesterday,
so we'll see. Hopefully they light some candles and get
on the plane and head home with a win and
then figure out how to beat the Mountaineers.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Very good, all right, Well I'll have a piece of
cake tonight if they win in honor of everybody's birthday
and a victory. Thank you as always, all right, So yeah,
that's our guy. Scott Springer, The Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com.
Nineteen minutes after four o'clock, Rads have signed an outfielder.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Who does one thing pretty well.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
We'll talk about him next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports station, or on Twitter I said, I was only
going to call it Twitter because nobody calls it X
media outlets do.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
It's been X for like a year and a half.
We still haven't made up our mind what we're calling it.
Just go to at Moeger and vote now poll questions
and service of our friends at United Heartland Insurance.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
We love United Heartland Insurance. Have you reviewed your home
and business insurance policy? They could save you a lot
of money. They could save you thousands thousands in premium costs.
Don't wait until it's too late. Go to uhis dot.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Com United Heartland Insurance, vote at Moeger. About Austin Hayes.
Austin Hayes signed by the Reds one year, five million dollars.
The News Today reported by Ken Rosenthal of The Ale.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
The contract is pending a physical. It includes a million
dollars in incentives. Austin Hayes was an All Star in
twenty twenty three. A guy who hit twenty two home
runs in twenty twenty one was interesting. The Baltimore Orioles,
a playoff team in the thick of a season where
they made the playoffs, traded away Austin Hayes. They traded

(57:26):
him to the Philadelphia Phillies, also a playoff team. I
believe at the time both Baltimore and Philadelphia were in
first place. It was the rare established player gets traded
by one contending team to another contending team deal. So
Austin Hayes went to Philadelphia and he's always left handed,
pitching pretty well. He was a guy who early in

(57:46):
the season last year with the Orioles, had a calf issue,
would then go on to develop a hamstring problem. But
most important, he had a pretty bad kidney infection kidney issue,
and so that limited him to just a handful of games.
He hit two fifty six with twenty two games with
the Phillies, and it was interesting. The president of baseball

(58:09):
operations Dave don Browski and Philadelphia said about Austin Hayes quote,
I don't think we saw the true guy acknowledging because
of the kidney issue and the injuries that they didn't
get a real representation of what Austin Hayes is.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Here's what he is. He's a twenty nine year old
corner outfielder.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
I mentioned the home run total in twenty twenty one,
not insignificant mention the fact that He was an All
Star starter a couple of years ago for the Baltimore
Orioles also in the ninety In the ninety at bats
he got against left handed pitching, bat had an ops
of nine to forty one seven seventy nine mark against

(58:51):
less handed pitching in his career prior to last season.
So he's always hit lefties. He's always hit lefties pretty well.
The Reds needed an outfield bat that could hit against lefties.
Now I would argue they need outfield bats that could
hit a guy throwing from either side, but they did
need a guy who could hit against lefties. Austin Hayes

(59:12):
does that. So as additions go, this is good. Like
this is a fine addition. I don't know how you
could have in a vacuum fine addition. I don't know
how you can have any issue with this particular edition.
Austin Hayes is on your team. That's fine because he
has an established skill set that they need. He's good

(59:36):
batting against lefties. He's okay ish at times, or has
been I should say okay ish at times batting against righties.
So cool, that's great, awesome, No issue with this. How
could you have any issue with it in a vacuum.
And we said the same thing about Gavin lux too, right, like,

(59:57):
looks like a little bit more versatile version of john
Nathan India raked in the second half of the season
when he came back from injury for the Dodgers last year,
has played a bunch of different positions, a more versatile
version of Jonathan India. And they flipped Jonathan India for
a guy that fits the profile of what they needed,
which was an established starting pitcher who has gotten through

(01:00:19):
a full big league season.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
So that's good.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Like, there's nothing wrong with any of those individual moves.
I think the problem though, is, and time will tell
if we're right about this, that if you take any
of these individual moves, I'm not sure you go. You
know what, God, it makes this team appreciably better. Like
let's say you woke up this morning and you said

(01:00:42):
to yourselfself, I think the Reds are going to win
eighty one games. If you believe that this morning today,
do you think the Reds are going to win eighty
eight games, eighty nine games, ninety two games? Probably not.
I think though, that you could also apply to what
they've done as a whole this offseason, three major additions,

(01:01:05):
and by major additions, moves involving established players. Gavin Lucks
got regular playing time for a World Series team last year.
Austin Hayes got regular playing time for a team that
won in Baltimore ninety one games, and then was traded
to a first place team who in the middle of
a pen and Chase valued what he does. Unfortunately it

(01:01:26):
did work out because of health issues. So there are
some bona fides here. And Brady Singer pitched for a
playoff team last season. Like you got three guys who
played for four playoff teams last year. There's something to
be said about that. At the same time, I'm not sure,
Like if you if today, if you think the Reds
right now are gonna win again eighty one games, and

(01:01:47):
we took away Gavin Lux, Brady Singer and Austin Hays
and said, actually, no, you don't get those guys. Would
you think the Reds are gonna win seventy games? Like
these are fine? These are okay? And again like this,
this is going to sound like a criticism of any
of these individual moves here, like needed a guy who
could hit against lefties. I'll play along with the suggestion

(01:02:12):
that they only have so much to spend, and all right,
this is fine, but do any of these moves move
the meter? Do these moves collectively move the meter? And
I would imagine that for the most part, the answer
is no. Like, they kind of got their kind of player,

(01:02:34):
which is dude who's been around a little bit, maybe
has some upside, a guy who's baseball reference page shows
some really good things, but is kind of by low
looking to recapture previous glories, Like they've they've acquired that

(01:02:55):
type of player before. I asked on social media if
for Austin Hayes is a closer version of Tommy Fam
and Will Myers or a closer version of Nick Castianos. Now,
nobody would look at Nick Castianos in his twenty twenty
one season with the Reds and expect Austin Hayes to

(01:03:17):
put up those numbers, But like, there's been this kind
of player before. The Reds have brought in Will Myers
and Tommy Fam. You know, both guys who had success
in the past were kind of buy low players, players
that you thought they might be able to flip at
the deadline, which they did with Tommy Fam. But guys

(01:03:40):
who seem like maybe not a great bet to recapture
previous glory and had reasonably low ceilings, Like they have
this kind of guy, They've traded for, this kind of guy.
They've acquired this kind of guy in free agency, and

(01:04:01):
I think you're being fair if if you would like
to see them acquire a player who didn't evoke memories
or evoke thoughts of Will Myers and Tommy fam Again,
this may work out. The dude's not yet thirty. He'll
turn thirty during the season next year. I think his
birthday without looking at July fifth, looked at that today.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
But it's not like he's old and washed up.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
And again, like not too long ago, this guy was
in an All Star Game, for what that's worth, and
there is a twenty two homer season, and he's got
a pretty good, well documented track record of hitting well
against lefties. Like there's there are things too like here,
and if it works out, then awesome. But I think

(01:04:46):
there's a there's at least a part of me, and
if you're a Reds fan, I think there should be
a part of you a desire to still see someone
who's better. And let's be honest, when when you look
at the list of a free agents when the offseason started,
chances are Austin Hayes wasn't a guy like gay Man.
I want him, Okay, established player, know who he is

(01:05:09):
by low Maybe get a big year out of him
comparatively speaking, you know, if he ends up outperforming his expectations.
By the way, his arbitration estimate with Philly this year
had they gone to arbitration, was six point four mil,
so you could say, well, the Reds are getting him
at less than market value. I don't know, like I
struggle with this because I don't want to come off

(01:05:31):
as pessimistic or negative or critical, because I'm not like, Fine,
Austin Hayes is on the team, but Austin Hayes doesn't.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
Move the meter.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
And I keep saying that about so many of these
individual decisions that I can't help but think that about
the collective series of decisions. God knows. I hope I'm
wrong about this. I want Brady Singer to be awesome.
I want Gavin Lux to be great. I want Austin
Hayes to be really good. But I just you know,
ESPN last week they're offseason grades the Red's got a

(01:06:01):
C minus that was a Does this move make it
a B minus, doesn't make it a D minus, doesn't
bringing the grade down. I don't know that it makes
the grade all that much higher. Like this is one
of those things. I was talking about a different topic
a week or so ago, and I was saying, like,
you know, sometimes I struggle with where there's gray area,
because in this job, you're supposed to say that everything's

(01:06:23):
either awesome or awful, and everybody's either the greatest of
all time or the worst of all time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
This is neither.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
This is fine, and Gavin Lux is fine and Brady
Singer is fine, And I guess there's a world where
fine plus fine plus fine equals really good. I'm just
not in that world right now. And again, I don't
think the Rads are gonna be a terrible team. I
absolutely believe that that they have a shot to make

(01:06:52):
the postseason because I do think they're starting pitching can
be really, really good, and I certainly will acknowledge. Man,
there's a lot of upside and players who didn't much
last year. But if you were looking at the offseason
as one where they could use trades and free agency
to get dramatically better acknowledging that there's still a couple

(01:07:14):
of weeks to go. I don't think they've done that.
That is no knock on Austin Hayes individually, and it's
no knock on Brady Singer individually, And it's no knock
on Gavin Lux individually. And maybe I'm being maybe I'm
grading a little bit too harshly.

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
May maybe I'm being a.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Little bit shortsighted about what some of these players can do.

Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
It just it feels like it feels like with those
guys were still talking about players who have reasonably low ceilings,
and in Austin Hayes' case, a guy who fits the
profile of the sort of player they've acquired before but
hasn't really worked out. I don't know, Like multiple times

(01:08:04):
this offseason the Reds Brady Singer I was I'm in
on a little bit more than the others because I
do value starting pitchers with experience who have gotten through
a full big league season, and I do think this
staff needs that badly.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
But with all.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Free major moves involving an established player, and I know
I'm ignoring the catcher Travino they got from the Yankees,
I've just sort of shrugged my shoulders. And a shoulder
shrug isn't it's not a middle finger, it's not awful.
But I was hoping there would be something this offseason
that I would And again I'm always thinking for myself.

(01:08:43):
You could tell me if you feel differently five point
three seven, four nine, fifteen thirty where I did more
than shrug my shoulders, maybe like a fist pump, or
I high five myself, or I make that sort of
face you make when you're like hmm, that might be
a game changer. I didn't know such thing with any
of these didn't know such thing today when I saw

(01:09:03):
that Austin Hayes is the outfield they've acquired.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
And again that does not ignore.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
The possibility that, yes, maybe with his kidney fixed, if
he stays healthy, he could be an asset against lefties.
In fact, I think he will be an asset against lefties.
And that's that's not nothing. But just at some point,
I just I would love for an individual move that

(01:09:29):
made me do more than just shrug my shoulders, and unfortunately,
with Austin Hayes, I just sort of shrugged my shoulders.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
I'll put it to you this way.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
I didn't feel like changing the direction of the show
and coming out of the gate with a bunch of
hot Austin Hayes takes. And maybe, again I'm being selfish here,
it would be awesome if once they can make a
move that gets announced at you know, noon or one o'clock.
Where I go, Terrence, screw it, we got it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
We gotta go back to the drawing board three oh five,
all this player, all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
We're not doing that with Austin Hayes. But again, fine, whatever,
have them go hit against lefties and maybe by September
we go, Holy crap, that Austin Hayes move was awesome.
I am not doing that in late January.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm way late. I'm sorry for that too.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Sports headlines coming up and a UC basketball thought and
a Bengals thought too on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 7 (01:10:33):
Cincinnati's fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Eleven minutes late sports headlines. A service at Kelsey Chevrolet,
home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from
their family to yours.

Speaker 4 (01:10:47):
For life kelseyshef dot Com bad News. Paul Tayner, junior
of the Athletic reports that Eric All done for twenty
twenty five due to complications from a previous knee surgery.
In college. He has had one knee surgery which has
helped to fix the issue. Now he's going to have
to have another. Eric All had a promising start to

(01:11:08):
his NFL career before tearing his ACL on November third
against the Raiders. Meanwhile, the Reds have added Austin Hayes,
who played last year for the Orioles and the Phillies.
With the Orioles in twenty twenty three, he was an
All Star. With the Phillies, he dealt with hamstring and
kidney issues so bad at just two fifty six with
an ops of six seventy two to one year five

(01:11:29):
million dollars with a million dollars in incentives, according to
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, and it's it's not it's
worth mentioning, the deal is still pending. A physical college
basketball tonight, you see is on the road again in Utah, again,
this time taking on Utah. The Utes tip off tonight

(01:11:49):
at ten o'clock on seven hundred WLW Kentucky with no
La Mont Butler. Tonight's on the road against Tennessee. That
game tips off at seven pm. Pregame covered out of
the way early at five thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty.
If you're looking for the NKU Coaches Show, it's on
Fox Sports thirteen sixty starting at six pm. Also tonight,

(01:12:09):
Miami is hosting Eastern Michigan. The RedHawks were clubbed by
Akron over the weekend, suffering their first MAC loss of
the season, and UD's on the road against Saint Bonaventure.
Paul Tayner Junior mentioned him. He reported the Eric allnews,
which is unfortunate for him, it's unfortunate for the Bengals.
We were talking about an exercise that he will publish

(01:12:31):
tomorrow at the Athletic dot Com, the annual mock off
season spreadsheet exercise, and I said this to him, and I,
you know, the T Higgins thing has gotten a ton
of attention, and it's it's an interesting story what to
do with T Higgins. When it felt like they were
not going to sign him and it was a done deal,
suddenly Joe Burrow talks and it talks extensively about T Higgins,

(01:12:55):
and so now we're all entertaining the possibility that they
bring him back and wondering what will happen if they do,
and wondering what will happen if they don't. But really,
the most interesting guy is Trey Hendrickson, because if you
say this out loud, it makes no sense. This right here,
Trey Hendrickson might be the defensive player of the year

(01:13:15):
on a defense that was not very good, and so
they might trade him this offseason. That doesn't make any
sense right until you realize the full depth of what
they're trying to accomplish this offseason, which is make a
lot of upgrades, make a lot of upgrades in free agency,
but also make a lot of upgrades not just to

(01:13:36):
the defense either using the draft, like there's no one
else that they could flip for increased draft capital. And
so you know, doing this exercise where I'm looking at
number one, the money that I could save by trading
Tray and number two thinking about what I might be
able to acquire in exchange for him, that's very, very tempting.

(01:13:57):
At the same time, you open up a hole where
Trey Hendrickson just had a transcendent season and you do
have to consider and I'll be the first to admit,
Tarron and I were talking about this before the show.
I haven't even started to dive into what the draft
class looks like. Like we're Senior Bowl Week is this week,

(01:14:18):
and that really sort of kicks off the draft process,
which is going to be three months. But in talking
with Paul and reading a few things here since I
did talk with Paul, it does feel like there's a
lot of really good talent on the defensive line, both
on the edge and on the inside. A draft guru
might be able to dispel that. But all right, so

(01:14:39):
I can't acquire more draft capital, and I could use
some of that draft capital on this area that the
draft is really good in, and I could save a
lot of money by trading Trey Hendrickson. There's something to
be said about that. At the same time, say it
again out loud, bad defense tray, the only really good
player might be the defensive player of the year. We're

(01:15:00):
gonna trade them.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
Like it doesn't It's tough. There's also the desire that
I'm sure everybody has to have a normal off season
in training camp. Say what you want about last offseason,
Say which you one about last training camp. It wasn't normal.

Speaker 4 (01:15:19):
The Jamar Chase thing took on a life of its
own and didn't just take on a life of its
own in late July. It was a thing the morning
of the first game. Maybe you blame Jamar, maybe you
blame the Bengals, maybe you blame both, maybe you blame nobody.
But it was a thing, and I don't think a
very productive thing. And over the last couple of years,

(01:15:39):
the Bengals have had a lot of different things hover
over their preparation for the season and what happens when
the season begins. They're zero to two every year. Now,
were they zero and three to start this season because
of the Jamar Chase thing, that might be a stretch.
But they've had a lot of things, and so I'm
sure there is this desire to have a normal offseason

(01:16:01):
in training camp where there are no things, no contracts,
no trade requests, no things. Well, Trey Hendrickson has one
more year left on his deal, and maybe he like
he's going, dude, I can't wait to hit free agency.
Let me play one more year and I'll hit it.
But he asked for a trade last offseason, right he did?

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
This was a thing.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
He asked for a trade last offseason because they wouldn't
extend him even further. The Bengals said, no, So, all right,
you want Trey on the team in twenty twenty five,
But do you want him on the team in the
absence of an extension?

Speaker 3 (01:16:33):
Okay, that's probably gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
Invite another thing, maybe a hold in, maybe a hold out.
I don't think Trey is gonna sit out games and
miss the paychecks that come with them. And I don't
see him being the sort of player who's gonna be
overly disruptive if he does do one of those Jamar, Chase,
Patton and hold ins.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
But still, that's a thing.

Speaker 6 (01:16:53):
And so.

Speaker 4 (01:16:55):
This is the one I really struggle with more than
any other decision in any other Like I'm on board
bringing back t Higgins, I am, But if they don't,
the next question is, all right, cool, what are you
gonna do with that money you would have paid T Higgins?
What are you gonna do at wide receiver when let's
be honest, the player's lower than him on the depth chart? Uh,

(01:17:18):
I haven't shown all that much. At the same time,
I've braced myself for life without t Higgins for a while.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
Now I'm not sure I.

Speaker 4 (01:17:25):
Want to think of life without Trey Hendrickson on the
Bengals defense. But I'm also not sure I want to
be put in charge of fixing the defense without the
ability to dangle a player like trade in exchange for
a draft capital. But if I do keep him, I'm
not sure I want to extend him, because do I
want to play a player past the age of thirty
one when I already have him in a contract this year.

(01:17:47):
At the same time, I don't want any more things
looming over training camp in the offseason.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
It's a tough one.

Speaker 4 (01:17:56):
I might have made it more complicated than it needs
to be, but I do I do.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
I think it's a tough one.

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
Good stuff from Scott Springer before on the Bearcats. You know,
you take over a program and a program with some history,
but a program with some recent history, a program that
has maybe a storied history that goes back many decades,
and you know, every program has its own history. Some

(01:18:24):
are pretty impressive histories. I happen to think. You see,
basketball is a great history. There's been a lot more
winning than losing, a lot of cherished teams, a lot
of revered players. And by the way, you could say
this about Xavier basketball too. Coaches at those two programs,
coaches at Kentucky and many others in the area have
talked about, well, we have to live up to the
history of this program. We have to live up to

(01:18:46):
the standard. We have to live up to what came
before us. That's not something you just say, is it.
Because what's interesting to me is you see, took a
lot of criticism for how they played on Saturday night.
It wasn't just that they lost. It wasn't just that

(01:19:07):
they lost by a lopsided score. A lot of us
who have watched this sport, not even for a long time,
but who have watched this sport know what effort and
energy and full engagement and things like listless performance and
effort look like.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
I know what they look like.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
And look, man, I'm not here to tell you that
the last thirty five years have been littered with perfect
teams by any stretch of the imagination. But one thing
that a lot of us who love you see basketball
very proud of is you know that there was an
identity to the program. Where I have rarely watched UC basketball,

(01:19:50):
which I've been following very closely since I was in
the eighth grade, I've rarely watched you see basketball and
regardless of the outcome, question and the effort, rarely publicly
or privately, I think if you're a Bearcat fan, you
know exactly what I'm talking about. And even if you're not,
you probably know exactly what I'm talking about. So, uh,

(01:20:13):
you know, a coach takes over the program or people
buy into the program, we're talking about the program, and
you know there is that that standard, right that that
you pay lip service to, you have to do more
than pay lip service to it. So if you're gonna
bristle at the suggestion or not agree with the suggestion,
ort to think the suggestion is unfair that that team
on Saturday night lacked effort and that that's why we

(01:20:36):
were so disappointed on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
Man, is that something we're just gonna say? Is it
something we mean?

Speaker 4 (01:20:41):
Are we just gonna say, boy, you have to live
up to a certain standard or is something we actually
believe and put some weight in, because what I watched
on Saturday did not live up to that standard. Five
minutes away from five o'clock ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 7 (01:20:55):
Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the.

Speaker 8 (01:21:02):
UC Health Traffic Center expect more at uc health, more
clinical trials, more treatment options for personalized care, more chances
to get you back to being You visit ucehealth dot com.
Eastbound State Route one twenty five earlier accident now cleared
away at Mount Carmel Tabasco Road. Still a little bit
of stop and go traffic back from Nagle Road on

(01:21:24):
eastbound twenty seventy five accident on the right shoulder between
Taylor Mill Road and the Double A Highway. I'm at
EAZELK with traffic.

Speaker 5 (01:21:32):
This report is sponsored by fifteen thirty. How you doing?

Speaker 4 (01:21:38):
It's five minutes after five. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thanks you for listening. We're having an awesome way. Now
it's not a good Wednesday. It's Tuesday, which day it is?
So there are there are, there are times where it
is it is. It is not remarkable that they give

(01:21:59):
me a show. It's remarkable that they let me in
the building. And you might argue that today's show is
an example of that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
We're done early. This show ends in twenty five minutes.

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
UK basketball Wildcats and Tennessee two teams trying to rebound
from losses. Seven o'clock is tip off, five point thirty
is pregame right here on ESPN fifteen thirty, which means,
if you're looking for the NKU radio show, you talk
about a team that has fallen on hard times, Darren
Horn's Club.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
The NKU Coach.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
The show will be tonight at six on Fox Sports
thirteen sixty. Now, you know, we'll spend a few minutes
with someone that we enjoy having with us, Katrina Merriweather,
the women's coach at U. See the Bearcats have a
home game tomorrow, and d Alexander from Purcell Marion who's
going to play for UC next year named a McDonald's

(01:22:51):
All American. Congratulations to her. We'll chat with her soon
to be college head coach coming up in just about
ten minutes or so.

Speaker 5 (01:23:00):
Uh, let's see.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
Here's like a phone caller. Two Jason, Jason, you're on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon, Jason.

Speaker 5 (01:23:07):
What's up? Hey?

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
How you don't buddy?

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
I am wonderful?

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
All right? Question?

Speaker 6 (01:23:13):
Do you think the Reds are better today with Austin
Hayes and they were yesterday?

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
Slightly, very slightly sure they're better against left?

Speaker 6 (01:23:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's the frustrating part. I'd like
to be like, oh, this is going to make this
team better, This is going to get these team five
more wins, you know, something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
So it just all right.

Speaker 6 (01:23:38):
So they flipped Jonathan India for Brady Singer, which I like,
I think that's great, like that one yep, like that.
And then they pick up Gavin Lux Jonathan India two
point zero.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
A little more more offensive, little more versatility, but.

Speaker 6 (01:23:52):
Yeah yeah, and then they get Austin Hayes, and that
just seems to me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
It's Jonathan India three point.

Speaker 10 (01:23:58):
H I mean, it's just we're getting guys.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
Yeah, they want to get a guy. Yeah, I want
to get guys with a guy, right, like want I
want Austin Hayes to be like the fourth most significant
offseason acquisition. Yes, right, didn't that sound good?

Speaker 6 (01:24:22):
Yeah, yeah, that sounds great.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
I want him.

Speaker 4 (01:24:26):
I'm trying to think of like a Reds a Reds
related I want him to be trying to think like
Wade Miley. Remember in twenty twenty, they acquired Mustakas and
Castianas we Mistakas didn't work out, Shogo Akiyama didn't work out,
but it was like, oh and by the way, they
also got Wade Miley. Maybe that's not the best comparison,
but like I'd like for there to be like an
a lister, a headline guy, and then you know, look,

(01:24:49):
I'm all for depth pieces for a team that last
year had its lack of depth exposed, Like I do
not sneeze at utility players and platoon guys and guys
who helped build depth. Like I'm all in a that,
But it feels like this offseason has been all about
depth pieces and that doesn't move the meter that much
for me.

Speaker 6 (01:25:09):
No, I mean, you don't win Penance with a bunch
of with a great bench. I don't think at least
it helped him. You're gonna have stars, it does. Yeah,
but who on this roster is an opposing picture? Could
be afraid of?

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
Correct? I could not agree more. Now, you know, the
obvious answer for a lot of folks is going to
be Elie. But I still think there are a lot
of pictures who are like, dude, if I get two
strikes on him, he's mine, right, I mean, he's not
there yet? Yeah, I mean if you took the playoff
teams in the National League last year and then just
in the National League, six of them how many guys
do the Reds have at this moment right now that

(01:25:46):
would have started for more than one of them?

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
One?

Speaker 4 (01:25:55):
Yeah, Now I think they have pictures who would have
been in the rotation without question, and so that there
there's there's the reason for ex I mean, I I
think there are contending teams that would have taken Hunter Green,
who you know, finished eighth in the cy Young but
positionally now Tyler Stevenson, I think would I think Tyler
Stevenson last year had a quietly good season. I certainly
think teams would find a place for Ellie. Matt mcleaan

(01:26:17):
didn't play last year and so he's still a bit
of a bit of a question mark, so he can't
be an answer beyond him.

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
I don't know who you go with.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
I don't know who you would say that guy would
would play for, you know, the the Phillies, Braves, Mets, Brewers,
Dodgers or.

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
Padres agreed totally. It's just I just hope that's not
their last move.

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
That's what Yeah, and I fear Jason, it is good
to talk to you, man. I like I I hate
doing this. I mean, I'm not this job. I think
the greatest four words in the English language strown together
are pitchers and catchers, report, I do and and so.

Speaker 3 (01:27:02):
As you get.

Speaker 4 (01:27:03):
Closer and closer to being able to say those words,
all you want to do is be optimistic and embrace
every move and again, Austin Hayes can do something pretty
well that this team could use, and so does that
make them better?

Speaker 6 (01:27:18):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
But does it make them much better?

Speaker 6 (01:27:22):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:27:23):
You could?

Speaker 4 (01:27:23):
You can tell me, well, no one player is going
to make any one team that much better. Okay, fine,
But even if I add up what they have done,
if I if I add up the players they've added
from other teams this offseason, i'm.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
I shrugged my shoulders. I'm I would I would love
to lie. I would love to make it up. I
would love to lie and tell you how I felt like.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
You know what, the Reds have gone from a team
that won seventy seven games last year to one that's
gonna win ninety in large part because of what they've
done this offseason.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
I can't do that now.

Speaker 4 (01:27:59):
One of the reasons why I can't do that is
this that say what you want about what they've done
this offseason. I think we would all admit that the
success of This team in twenty twenty five is going
to hinge primarily on the health of the starting pitching,

(01:28:19):
which does have a chance to be really good. The
starting pitching last year was a major strength. If that
continues this year, I think it continues to a point
that you look at this staff and you're thrilled with it.
And then obviously players like Ellie taking a leap, and
Matt McClain's staying healthy and being as good as he
was two years ago, and jam Er Candelario staying healthy

(01:28:40):
and being more productive, and Christian and Karnacion strand being
healthy and living up to what we still feel like
is a high amount of potential. And you could say
that about a lot of guys. So what you could
sell me on is, well, starting pitching is going to
be really good, all of those players are going to

(01:29:01):
be as good as we think, and who they added,
those guys are going to be assets. Maybe, but there's
still a lot of ifs there. You know, when the
Reds hired Terry Francona, a lot of us looked at
that and said, well, this means he thinks the front
office is going to spend and so here we go
this offseason and relative to some of those hopes, which

(01:29:22):
were frankly in some respects unrealistic at the time, that
has not happened. What was exciting about Terry Franconah taking
the job for me was he was impressed enough with
what the Reds had that he felt like he could
win with It wasn't based on what they were going
to do this offseason. What they've done this offseason has
been they do not deserve an f They also do

(01:29:45):
not deserve an A.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
One year.

Speaker 4 (01:29:50):
I'd like to see the sort of offseason we're coming
off of seventy seven win year, which hopefully they're not
doing that much more anymore. We give him an A
give Katrina Meriweather and a for bringing d Alexander to UC.
We'll talk with the head coach of the UC women's
basketball program next DESPN fifteen thirty. Ilm Oegar, we were
talking yesterday about d Alexander from Purcell Marion becomes the

(01:30:12):
first UC women's basketball signee to earn a spot in
the McDonald's All American Game, which is awesome, terrific for
area high school basketball and I'm sure just adds to.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
The excitement that the staff at U see is.

Speaker 4 (01:30:29):
Probably not even containing themselves with as they get set
for d to arrive on campus next year. But before
that happens, Katrina Merriweathers team is fun to watch now.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
They're fun to watch in large.

Speaker 4 (01:30:40):
Part because they do dig themselves holes, but they often
come back from them, including the eleven point hole they
dug out of to come back and beat Arizona State.
That's four double digit deficits this year. You see his
home for four of their next five games, including a
game tomorrow night against Houston at six thirty. Bearcats won
five games in the Big Twelve last year. They've already

(01:31:03):
won four so far this season. The head coach of
the Bearcats, Katrina Meriweather, is with us. I said a
mouthful there. It's good to have you, coach.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
How are you?

Speaker 10 (01:31:11):
Thank you so much for having me. I just want
to make it clear that getting down double digits is
not the same.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
No, But as a fan, it makes the comeback exhilarating.

Speaker 10 (01:31:22):
And I agree. And every time someone says a great job,
and how do you feel about having a team that
can fight back? I tell them I love it. And
it says a lot about them and their character. But
it also says a little bit about us not being
able to follow directions in the first half.

Speaker 4 (01:31:34):
M all right, very good. Well I can appreciate that.
That said, from what you and I were talking about
roughly a year ago. At this time, y're one of
the Big twelve. To now, there's been a lot of growth,
and we can talk about that from a recruiting standpoint.
But it does feel like your team is it fits
in more in the Big twelve than maybe a year ago.

Speaker 6 (01:31:54):
No.

Speaker 10 (01:31:55):
Absolutely, and I think sometimes more than even conference changes,
it's just we change coaches. We all have different philosophies,
we all have different beliefs, we all buy into different things,
and so sometimes it's being able to get kids in
that fit into the system that you're implementing that helps.
But the kids that transferred out, they're doing great where
they are too, So it's worked out for everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:32:18):
Your team has a heartbeat and an engine and Jillian. Hey,
you and I talked about Jillian before the season and like,
all right, what's what's the next step for her? And
it feels like we're seeing that her take that next
step this season.

Speaker 10 (01:32:29):
Yeah, I think so. I think sometimes when you add
some things to your offensive bag, as we call it.
It can be a little tougher. Jill gets torn between,
you know, shooting these jump shots that she's now making
and being the interior threat that she is. And what
makes it good for us is that she's able to
do both. And I think what makes it hard for
opponents is you don't know what you're gonna get because

(01:32:52):
some days she's just a tear and the paint, and
other times she's able to be an exterior threat. So
we're really happy that her development has come along the way.
It hasn't last year.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
Let's talk about d Alexander and you and I went
through your recruiting class back in November when you joined me,
and you know, d being a local kid as somebody
whose career we have followed, and obviously really excited for
her to make the decision to attend the University of Cincinnati.
What does it mean for your program to have now
a McDonald's all American coming in.

Speaker 10 (01:33:24):
Yeah, I mean it's hard to put into words. I mean,
obviously she's going to come in here and expectations are
going to continue to rise regardless, but you add her
to the equation and it gets a little more serious.
A lot quicker, and you know, and we're excited about
that challenge and we think that she's coming in. We
have a class that they compliment each other, they are

(01:33:44):
we have five kids that are in different positions and
we think that they are going to fit together really well.
But ultimately, whenever you get a kid of that caliber,
it's going to elevate your program. On my staff at
a phenomenal job and particularly average Jump, who was leave
recruiter would be got her in a position early going

(01:34:04):
to where we felt like we could have a chance
to get her, and we're really happy it turned out
that way.

Speaker 3 (01:34:09):
What's the first time you ever watched her play?

Speaker 8 (01:34:12):
Oh?

Speaker 10 (01:34:14):
I would have to say it would be on a film.
As soon as we got the job I got, I
got all these conversations about do you know who the Alexandria?
If you know she is, and of course you know
who she was, but the last time that we were
in Ohio, she was a baby, so I hadn't seen
her playing in a really long time. And she actually
came on campus the first time that I was with

(01:34:34):
USA Basketball and Abby got her own campus and the
dad they hosted her, oh I wasn't here and I
actually talked to her on the phone, so her very
first store on campus. I wasn't present because I was
in Colorado, So it was just it's a really cool
recruiting story, you know, just because she wasn't guaranteed to
come here. But I do think that there were a

(01:34:55):
lot of things that were lined up, and we're happy
that she saw the vision of the Sisterhood and what
she could do to elevate our program.

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
You have so many responsibilities specifically during the season, from
getting ready for specific opponents to working with the players
you have on your team right now. You're obviously still
recruiting players who may one day come to UC, and
yet you've got a class full of kids who are
wrapping up their high school careers, including obviously and getting
set to arrive on campus next year. How often and

(01:35:27):
with the it's a little bit easier because she's in
your backyard, But how often do you get a chance
to watch live players who have committed to come play
for you?

Speaker 10 (01:35:36):
And not as often as we would like. I think
the NCAA has this rule with these sixty five recruiting days,
and I think that hurts when you have a big
class because you still having to spend time in the
fall in these evalves, and those count towards your days,
and when more than one coach comes out to recruit
a kid, than it counts as multiple days. So I

(01:35:56):
make it a point that I, as the hit coach,
gets to see each of our signees at least one
time and then the assistance will go out. But we
steel like you said, have to recruit twenty six, twenty
seven to twenty eight, so we can't even utilize all
our days, you know, on this twenty five class. But
thankfully technology allows us to be on Facebook Live. These
sinees have phenomenal families and support systems, so they are

(01:36:20):
constantly streaming their games, their highlights, So even if we
can't be there in person, we are one hundred percent
support on watching in or checking in with them all
the time.

Speaker 4 (01:36:29):
So you know, we've we've talked a lot about d
and tremendous accolades, and she's a local kid, but I
know the excitement for the class you're bringing in next
year isn't limited to her. We obviously don't have a
ton of time, but run through the class you're going
to be bringing in next year.

Speaker 10 (01:36:43):
Yeah, sure, Khalid Debility, who is better known as a
little Bit is a relative of Muggsy, which everyone knows.
He has some parts of her game that are reminiscent
of his, so that's pretty cool for her. But the
consummate point guard and who we need, Julia Crawford. We
think she's arguably the best offensive player in state of Tennessee.

(01:37:05):
She's a steal under the radar. Some people saw her
in eybl this past summer and asked what she was,
but it was too late. We already had her wrapped up.
And then Callie Barrett from Florida. It was ranked top
three players in the state of Florida. She just scored
her fifteen hundred points a game ago for stressforward for us,

(01:37:27):
going to shoot a lot of shots and wide open
ones because these kids can really get downhill the last
and not least page with it. Out of Memphis. She's
been struggling with some injuries here lately, so she hasn't
played as many games, but we're excited about her ability
to shoot the ball and stress the floor too. So
we think we put together a class that's definitely going

(01:37:48):
to help us compete.

Speaker 4 (01:37:49):
I want to bring it back to your team on
the flooria this year because you're kind of you're kind
of in the dog days of it, right, Like you've
been at this now for a few months. The light
might be at the end of the time tunnel, but
it's still in the distance. The end of the season
is still so far away this time of year, is
it Is it more difficult because of that to have

(01:38:10):
the sort of practices you want. What is it like
being around your kids and coaching and trying to get
better when practice time is limited, there's always another game
and you're kind of in that stretch of the season,
which I got to think I hated this time of
year as a college student. I got to think it
can be a little bit of a challenge as a
college basketball player.

Speaker 10 (01:38:26):
Yeah, I think it is. You know, they started their
second semester spring semester already and after having been off
for a few weeks, and I think that's the hardest
adjustment for them, is just getting back in the rhythm
of school when they've just literally been living in the
life of a professional athlete where they go to practice
and play games and travel. But for us as coaches,
you know, we just try to remember how it was

(01:38:48):
for us. You know, we try to remember the challenges
and the distractions and try to be really sensitive to
all the things that go on in their world. And
they live in a different time than I did for
and I'm fortunate to have young coaches around me, so
they can remind me, you know, about all the technology
and stuff. But I think all in all, we have

(01:39:08):
a team that's still bought in, a team that's still
committed to getting better. So we'll practicing really hard toe
you know, for about two hours a day, and I
think we have to have that if we're going to
play eleven d we have to continue making sure everybody
feel comfortable and confident in the game plan, in our execution.

Speaker 4 (01:39:23):
Got a fun team to watch for the next five
at home, including a tilt tomorrow night against Houston. That
game will tip off at six point thirty at fifth third.
Go see and play, coach. It's good to have you.
Good luck the rest of the season. Hopefully we'll chat
again soon. Do appreciate the time.

Speaker 10 (01:39:39):
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, and hopefully we'll
see you.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
So you got it, Let's hope.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
So.

Speaker 4 (01:39:44):
Katrina Meriweather, head coach of the UC women's basketball program,
quickly here before we go. UK basketball is coming up
in just a second. I want to talk to you
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Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
We'll talk to you tomorrow.

Speaker 6 (01:41:00):
Four