February 11, 2025 • 44 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to talk about some Bengals-related Super Bowl takeaways, his ten-step path to get the Bengals back to the Super Bowl, his big board, and tons more.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
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Follow on X: @MoEgger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To win a thousand dollars. Enter this nationwide keyword on
our website. Bonus, thanks bonas. Enter it now.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Oh yeah, that's right, thank you. It's three all four.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon on Muleger. Thank
you for joining us over having a fun Tuesday. I've
lost track on what the weather is supposed to do,
(00:27):
so I don't know. I'm not even gonna reference it.
We're done early today. UK hoops at five thirty. Wildcats
and Tennessee tonight pregame at five thirty, tip off at
seven o'clock, part of a busy area college basketball night.
We'll go to good Year in an hour, but first,
because it's Tuesday. Paul Tayner Junior from The Athletic and
the Growler podcast is here. He has a ten point
(00:50):
plan to get the Bengals back to the super Bowl.
You could read that at the Athletic dot Com. He
also has and he and I have both been looking
forward to this his first draft big board. Yeah, and
so you can read that at the Athletic dot Com
as well. Follow him on Twitter at Paul Danner Junior.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
How's it going. It's it's going great. It's going great. Uh,
A little bit of snow flurry is still happening out there.
That's our update.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
All.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, they've been sort of intermittent lately, a little just
a touch, just a tiny touch right now.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
One of my my, my daughter had a three day weekend.
They had in service day the day after the Super Bowl. Yes,
same here, not coincidental at all, and so on. She
was playing with one of her friends on Monday who
informed her that there's not going to be school on
Tuesday because it's going to snow. And so I had
to beat the heavy and inform her last night it
might snow, but you're you're going to school tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
You're going to school. Yeah, no, I think that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think it's everybody's got to tighten down the snow days.
At this point, after we went through over the last
couple of months, I have I've printed your ten step
path back to the super Bowl. It makes I feel
like I'm I did something worthwhile. If you decide to
go to the printer, usually I can get you to
go to the printer a couple times a week. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, I like I like, I like to print, I
like to highlight, I like to to leave notes. I
I'd rather flip through than scroll through while you're here,
and then your your draft a big board right here too.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
There it is. There's also something else.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
From the athletic that's Bengals related that you didn't do
that I love, and it's this chart that we're going
to reference here in just a little bit. But first,
the super Bowl, you know, was on Sunday. It was
so I'm obligated as you watch, I did, Yeah, I did?
Did you Yeah? I felt like I give it a
turn it on?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I had it on. What is you?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm obligated to ask what is your biggest Bengals related
Super Bowl takeaway?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah? Well you have to have to do that. I mean,
can it be anything other than just keep filling your
team with defensive linemen with premium picks. I think it
is don't be afraid to go young there. I mean,
you know, you go through all of the contributing defensive
linemen and it's all a bunch of dudes that are
(02:59):
young players that they picked, home grown, they spent high
premium capital on. And it was something that we talked
about this last week how different maybe this Super Bowl
could be from the last time they were chasing Patrick
Mahomes around, and that was they had some older guys
doing it at that point, and here they had a
bunch of young, energetic, freak show athletes doing it and it, boy,
(03:21):
did it ever show right. And so I think I
think that's a message that don't be afraid to go
all in with that and understanding what that come up.
Now the whole league knows that, right. I mean, this
isn't a secret or whatever. You gotta do it right.
It was the funny part, not funny for anybody listening
it to Bengals. I understand this. The Bengals have done this, yeah,
(03:42):
you put it side by side. They've invested in similar ways.
I mean, they didn't draft as high to be able
to get a Jalen Carter, you know, but they have
put a bunch of picks in that are a lot
of them in the same areas as some of the
guys you saw making those plays. They just haven't gotten
many of that, you know, out of them. And that's
(04:05):
kind of, I think been the message that's been consistent
over the last number of months now is they got
to find a way to take these picks and get
something that looks like that the whole league is trying
to do that, but it's not for lack of trying,
they just haven't been good at executing. Ye.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
All right, I have two Bengals related Super Bowl takeaways?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Are you ready? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What I did your mock off season? I had the
Bengals signing Milton Williams. Yeah I kind of want him?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah? Ye still agree with that take ye? Him? Yeah
pretty good? Him and Josh Sweat are sitting there after
that game saying, how about that? Huh, come and get it,
you know, I mean, yeah, no, no doubt. I mean
they seem to have found one there. I think it's
just gosh, it's it also reinforced to me, you know,
(04:50):
just the importance of the game wrecking defensive tackle in general.
Like I just I just feel like it is really
just been the dominant position that no one talks enough
about because they do tend to be anonymous and even
a d you know, the DJ reader. You know, the
Bengals lived this life of what it looks like when
(05:12):
you have a DJ reader pushing the pocket, even when
they don't get the stats. Bengals fans scream this for
years because you saw it, like that is changing the game.
It is pushing the uncomfortable. You can feel the discomfort
in Patrick Mahomes when he goes to step up or
do his thing where he spreads out and can't go anywhere,
(05:32):
because every single play the pocket pushed right into his face.
Guys on skates, guys blowing around other dudes. I mean,
it was just on repeat. And that's the type of
thing that it's just. It's why Burrow wants better at guards.
It's it's why everybody understands how important that is, and
and the Bengals lacking in that the last couple of
(05:53):
years certainly has has shown and Milton Williams is a
is a great example amongst all those dudes everybody, and
it's kind of where it all started for the Eagles,
and pretty obvious.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Here's my second Bengals related number two Super Bowl takeaway.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
It's finally okay to say out loud, Joe Burrow is
better than Patrick Mahomes. You think, yeah, I do, I do,
because why do you say that he performed better this season?
He played quarterback better than Patrick Mahomes did. Patrick Mahomes
team won more often. Patrick Mahomes is more accomplished. But
(06:27):
Joe Burrow played the position of quarterback better than Patrick Mahomes.
If you said that at any point this season, you
got the hang tight.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Patrick Mahomes played the worst game of his life in
the super Bowl on the biggest stage. He didn't look comfortable,
He couldn't make do at all. He struggled with what
Joe Burrow has had to deal with, and he fell
flat on his face. Joe Burrow was the better player
this year, and now it's okay to say that because
everybody watched him fail spectacularly on the biggest stage in sports.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, he did get the taste of Joe Burrow's life. Yeah,
you know, this is kind of what Joe's been doing. Yeah,
is having to live in these circumstances for a while.
I would have liked to have watched that game with
Joe Burrow. Yeah, what's it like? Yeah? How's that feel?
Just sitting there with them going, you know what do
you think? Joe? Can you tell us what he's dealing
with here? It's funny somebody posted some of the highlights
of Burrow against the Eagles, and you forget how well
(07:22):
he was playing and dealing with that pressure in that game.
We went back, I know Charlie and I did a
rewatch and we were looking for some Super Bowl stuff
and went back to that Bengals Eagles games and you
see Burrow taking hits to the chest, dropping dimes down
and go balls down the field, getting the ball out quickly.
A couple of the GESICKI play was in that game
third and twenty two, where you're just having to make ways.
(07:43):
I'll give you that. I get uncomfortable going there because
I don't care about the comparing. I know it matters.
I don't either. I don't either, but but you would
be to turn this into ranking. My eyes glaze over
when it comes to that stuff. But I do believe
the Bengal have the best quarterback in the NFL, the
person who was best at playing quarterback in the National
(08:05):
Football League. Again, he's not the most accomplished, he hasn't
won the most hardware. Mahomes has what Burrow doesn't. But
that argument was crystallized for me by watching the Super Bowl.
Doesn't mean Mahomes is a bum or a bad player.
Doesn't mean that he's not going to be an MVP
next season. I think I said this on our show yesterday.
One of the more interesting storylines this coming season is
(08:26):
going to be does Patrick Mahomes turn into Superman again?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Or is he just a very good quarterback? This year
he was a very good quarterback and had some awesome moments,
and he won playoff games. Burrow was better, And I
feel like for a lot of folks, it took that
game on Sunday to not along with what I have
said for weeks.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's fair, that's a fun takeaway. I don't you know,
I tend to have a hard time viewing it that
narrowly in this one season, and what one game kind
of establishes, I feel, you know, what he had to
deal with in that game is rare, even by Burrow's
pressure standards. I mean, so, I don't you know. I
think it's it's a little different. And the way he's
(09:04):
been able to finish off so many games is something
that that he did over the course of the season
that stands out to But yeah, but from a numbers perspective,
it's your Your argument is air tight. If you put
player a player B as you can do sometimes next
to each other, it's not close. There's there's no doubt
about that. So yeah, you probably can. I get you.
(09:26):
I hear what you're saying. I'm fine with it. I
just don't like. I don't like because I'll be like,
what about Lamar, Like, let's put Lamar in there as
player see and let's get into I mean like, I
just feel like they're in the tier together. Yes, right,
Like that's what matters. That's fine, dude, dude that can
win you a championship tier has very few members in
my opinion, as far as you know, can do it
(09:46):
with minimal help. I mean, and and they're both in
there together. I think you can say that. And I
you know, I think that Burrow will win one one day.
And I think when he does that, you'll hear roaring
of that he's better than Mahomes and and that that's
because that's what in the recency bias every single year
(10:06):
that happened. I mean, you get you get it, And
so yeah, I think that's that. It was thirty one nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I so badly wanted the shutout because I had the
tweet ready to go. Joe Burrow's never been shut out
in the Super Bowl, by the way, neither has anybody else.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I had and then they ruined it by scoring points. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Did you have any takeaways from Joe Burrows New Orleans
Media Blitz. Did you have to sit shut out Mike
g and watch every everyone that he went on?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Every review? I specifically, well, I have, I had a
couple of gys. I don't. I don't. I had to
watch breakfast Ball, which is apparently a show on f
S one Grey Carton. Yeah, and there's a couple other people. Yeah,
and then Parkins from Chicago Parks pretty good. Yeah, yeah,
(10:54):
not a fan is a very blustery for like seven
thirty in the morning. It's a little early for that level.
So it was a lot. There was a lot to
take in there. My decision was to find the first
one that he's doing and watch that in full and
get the feeling for the talking points that Joe's trying
to make and be on top and then like, I'm
(11:17):
not going to watch all of these, right I did.
I did follow some of them, but I didn't. You know, So,
outside of the fact that breakfast Ball is probably not
my cup of tea, my takeaway is he's not ever
going to back down off this point, like, look, you
can do this, I expect you to do this for
(11:39):
the eighty ninth time. I'm drawing the line in the sand.
This is a clear I want to make it clear
what I want. I'm going to fight for my guys,
and that's what this is about. And you know what
I'm I just we've talked about this a bunch. I
just think the fact that he is applying this pressure
(12:01):
and putting it all out there is just fascinating to
watch unfold over the course of this offseason because we
know where everyone stands. Usually you don't. Usually there's just
so much Oh, I don't know, how's this gonna go,
and then it gets the spin machine comes later, and
oh no, he wanted this the whole time, and we
we always knew it was gonna be okay to let
(12:22):
he go, or that Joe was gonna be okay. No,
everyone knows where everyone stands on this, specifically all of
these players believing you can do it. There's no excuses here.
You can do this, and you're if you don't, you're
choosing not to, and I don't think you should. I
think we all want to be together and will help you.
(12:43):
It's it's erasing all excuses and just making sure everyone
is clear here. On how they feel about it. That's
what makes it fascinating. I don't know how it's gonna
play out. I don't know if it's gonna have any
effect at all. In fact, i'd probably be more willing
to say it's gonna have the opposite effect that they'd
wanted to have. The further you did your heel, because
I've seen this organization over the years that said, we'll
watch it and we'll know how everyone felt going into it,
(13:06):
rather than having to guess if we're getting spun later.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I played some audio from Breakfast Ball. I did
peruse that because I wanted to hear if Craig Carton
and Joe Burrow talked it all about Craig going to prison.
I didn't know if Joe wanted to know what prison
life was like, and here's an opportunity for to ask
somebody who's been in the can. But we played audio
from the first take one where they laughed at him,
(13:31):
They laughed in his face.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
They did they did, I mean, I mean they asked them.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
The question, you know was similarly worded to all the
other ones he's been getting about, you know, what makes
you think the Bengals can do this, and Joe started
to talk about we've got cap space and they literally
laughed in his face.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
His face. Yeah, I mean, you know, but look, the
same people that have been laughing at the Bengals for years,
and they sometimes they've ended up with egg on their face.
Sometimes they have it right. I mean, there's been plenty
of times where people sitting on that desk have had
to eat their words, and plenty of times that they've
stood and yelled louder. They're gonna yell either way, right,
(14:09):
but yeah, it's it's funny to see. And then actually,
actually I'm kinctually happy for them at least they actually
did do it to somebody's face. Yeah, instead of just
constantly being behind the back and ah, they laughed at them.
I mean, we'll see, all right. Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Paul Danner Junior is here from the Athletic dot Com.
He has a ten step path to Super Bowl sixty
how the Bengals can get back to the big game.
It's a it's a good read. You should go read
it now at the Athletic dot Com. There are a
couple of points I want to talk about. Are you
gonna laugh in my face about point two?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
But I am going to talk about point two, okay,
because I think it's a valid point.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, it's a valid suggest You'll probably laugh on my
face about something else though, undeniably. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Paul's here till four, so we have forty one minutes
to find something to laugh at him about. I'm here
till five thirty. Mullegor ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the UC Health
Traffic Center. For more than two hundred years, the experts
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chance at better outcomes. That's boundless care. You can trust
expect more at UCHealth dot com. On two seventy five
(15:19):
north and southbound, you're going to find the left two
lanes blocked off in each direction at US fifty. Crews
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It's a disabled vehicle that is off on the left
shoulder at Fort Washington Way. I'm at Ezelk with traffic.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Twenty four minutes after three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Mogger with Paul Danner Junior
covering the Bengals off season Free agency, the draft, and
more at the Athletic dot Com and this podcast. The
Growler podcast is a must watch and listen as well.
UH Paul has a ten step path to Super Bowl
(15:59):
sixty the Bengals. Ten ten steps. That's all you gotta do,
only ten.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Ten easy things. Ten easy things. I wonder how many
of these ten will actually get that. That's a there's
probably an I remember. Yeah, I think an over under
on six and a half is probably fair.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
So item number two, yeah, trade Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, I know, I'm not super thrilled with it either,
Like I just I am. I mentioned this a little
bit in your first segment. I am just sort of
of the there's a lot to fix, go all in
on all of these young guys, and and go. It's
(16:40):
not a it's not a matter of like gotta save
the money. I think philosophically going young together with a
bunch of people and getting more picks, specifically those in
a draft where you know you'll be able to get
a premium pick Lineman and an assumption that you'd be
trading Trey Hendrickson or maybe you're getting a player back,
a young player of some sort whatever, but knowing that
(17:03):
you can add to that mix on top of what
you already have to add to that mix on a
defensive line. Can have that give I think just gives
you a unique juice and you can cover more ground
in terms of all the things they need to fix
and throw more answers at the problem versus betting on
(17:24):
if you're talking about extension versus trade, because I think
it's pretty clear here that that would not be an
easy path to making Tray play out this contract. They
certainly can and deal with eat the distraction and go
forward and know that he'll go play. They can do that,
But if you're talking about one versus the other, I'd
rather take the chances that a bunch of young players
(17:47):
cohesively create a sort of unique pass rushing juice to them,
versus you're going to continue for multiple years to get
something resembling what you have been getting out of Trey Hendrickson.
If you told me I could get the last three
years I just got out of Tray Fredrickson, I would
pay him more than Nick Bosa. You know what I mean.
It's not about Trey the player, It's about the lack
of precedent of getting that type of production. When you
(18:11):
start crossing the age that he's at, it's just his history.
I got somebody came into my mailbag questions and was
taking a shot at me, like, hey, how about we
get some brevity, bro. You didn't have to put all
fifty of the top pass rushers with their ages from
the last five years, And I said, yeah, I did.
It was to prove a point, visually, keep going and
(18:33):
keep going until you find someone who's thirty one or older.
Keep going, keep going. There's fifty names here and it's
just a three at the bottom. You know, he didn't
have to read all those names. I think he wanted to.
I was trying to make the point that you don't
have to read there's so many you just keep going.
You find anybody with the age on September first of
that year that actually ended up in that world that
(18:55):
Trey has lived in. Okay, it's maybe he does, But
I would rather bet on a bunch of young players
coming together to do something not what the Eagles have done,
but like Eagles ish right, the Eagles adjacent rams adjacent,
Then you're gonna get what you got out of Trey Hendrickson,
(19:18):
and you can and building around that is fine, Like,
I think you can win either way. I just I
like personally the idea of doing that, taking some of
that money and using it elsewhere, but mostly about just
kind of throwing a bunch of young, talented athletic players
at this pass rush.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
If the goal of the franchise is to have the
smoothest off season ever, yeah, then we are taking off
the table having him play out the last year of
his deal. So then it comes down to an either
or thing for me at least trade or extend. And
I'm just not that interested in Trey Hendrickson in twenty
(19:57):
twenty seven, yeah, being paid for what he didn't twenty four.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah. And like I said, I mean, we've certainly seen
the show before where you tell them tough, that's your contract,
come play it eight But comes with noise, right, it
comes with noise. But if you're saying, look, we'll eat
that noise.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Which is what I would do, I'm okay eating the noise.
I'm okay going you know what, Fine, We'll put up
with this. This is life in the NFL. I said
this to you, I think last week, like I've just
accepted that this is unavoidable as long as you have
good players, somebody's always going to want to get paid.
Somebody's always going to want an extension, somebody's always going
to want a trade. Someone's not going to be happy.
You just have to figure out a way to deal
with it. And if your culture is what they always
(20:38):
say it is, then you ought to figure out how
to just overcome it. But if you're going, you know what,
screw that. We are avoiding the noise we want the most.
Our objective number one is the most peaceful offseason and
training camp. Ever, then you can't do that, then that
comes off the table, and it's one or the other.
And the preference for me is to get younger using trays.
(20:58):
Stature is value value. Yeah, and we'll go in that direction,
And okay, we're gonna miss Tray, but we'll figure it
out with what we can spend that we're freeing up
and with what we could use with those picks, and
the objective is accomplished. No Trey hendrickson noise.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, And I don't you know how much does that matter?
I mean, that's a question that they have to ask themselves,
is how much do they because you know Trey had
noise last year? Yeah, and and it ended quickly, it
went away. Will that be the same? Will he Will
you go get angry Trey Hendrickson production? Maybe like, maybe
(21:35):
that's something you just say you're willing to take. Maybe
that's that's the thing that ends up being the bottom
of the totem pole. Here is everybody else gets their
deals and Trey has to just kind of suck it
up and play on his current contract and be angry
about it. I don't there's a number of I mean,
it's the fascinating aspect of this entire offseason. Ques so
many different ways that you can go with all of this.
(22:00):
That's just for me because I do think that resetting
the culture without just drama, there's so much drama capability
right now without it, I think, and just getting that
young energy back with a new defensive coordinator known for
kind of being able to develop all of that stuff,
just lean all the way into that. That's why to me,
(22:21):
I would just philosophically go that direction with the assumption
that you know, there's a lot of value in what
you could probably get for him right now.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
What happens to Trey's value with Miles Garrett putting himself
in the market.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I don't know. I mean, you know, the Browns have
to actually be willing to do that, you know what
I mean. And so I think it exposes teams that
are desperate to find a dominant pass rusher. And perhaps
you would have two teams bidding against each other and
figuring out pretty openly what they're willing to do, and
(22:56):
the one that doesn't get the guy is like, well,
but for seventy five percent of the price that we
were going to give for Miles Garrett, we could go
get this guy, you know, because I think he would
be probably the second biggest thing. There's other names that
are out there. I mean, Michael Parsons, potentially Max Crosby.
I don't know if how real any of that will
prove to be here, if it's just everyone trying to
(23:16):
exert leverage right now. But so I don't know if
it's a direct effect, but there's so many pass rushers
being talked about, and maybe the bigger effect though, will
be how many pass rushers there are in this draft.
We've seen that in many years where teams were just
not willing to go there in drafts where that position
(23:37):
was so deep they knew they could get something there,
and so they're not as motivated to do that little
bit extra to make something like a trade for a
current player happen. That probably would have a bigger effect
than anything that's gonna come of Miles Garrett.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Trey Hendrickson had a many media blitz last week, one
on the Pat McAfee Show, and his comments kind of
kicked all of this into a different gear. And he
takeaways from his many media blitz.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, I mean, it's got to be the comment about
you know, I wish I wouldn't have heard it from
my dad in the text with a tweet. That's the
it's we're back to the communication thing again, which haring thing,
recurring thing. I mean, it goes as far back as
AJ Green and Andrew Whitworth and I mean we've talked
about that's that's been something that's Jonah Williams and DJ
(24:28):
Reader and T Higgins and Jamar and Jesse Bates and
like it. Well, and I I get it, like this
is the type of stuff you here said in the
middle of negotiations, but it just seems so consistent, and
it's like there, you know, there's got to be a
time to revisit there's got to be a time to
(24:49):
revisit the approach. Is there is can we Is there
something you can revisit about the approach? Is there a
new way to to kickstart these negotiations? Is it? Is
it about the types of offers that are being made
to kickstart these negotiations? Is it about setting expectations for
how you think it's gonna go and them just not
feeling lost and unsure or whatever it is? It feels
(25:13):
like maybe just a little a little more detail needs
to be given to that because it is just it
just seems it's so consistent, and that's just you don't
mind I think as an organization having players have making
the blitz that they're doing like you prefer it. But
this is what it is, is the NFL man right,
They're gonna keep putting microphones in front of these guys
faces because it gets everything they want. You can handle
(25:34):
everything that was said for me this week, except for
that's the one where you're like, can we not have that?
We not make it look like we weren't proactive and
understanding this and and have this antagonistic feel. So that's
that's the one. The one thing that stood out from
last week all right, I gotta ask a questions about
your big board. Oh good, okay, that's available at Athletic
(25:55):
dot com. We have to talk about wide receivers, we
have to talk about tight ends. We have to talk
about a theme that came up on our show yesterday,
Hall of Fame voting and a chart in the Athletic.
You keep showing me the chart. I'm trying to think
that I think I know what chart that is. Like charts. Yeah,
I like charts too. Like the chart. This wasn't in
your piece. This was in Mike Sando's piece.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yes, but I know the where I thought it was
a fun, fun chart that I think I want to
see this to be a thing moving forward.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well, I'll get to that when we come back.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Sports Headlines next twenty five Away from for this is
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SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Do we want to move on to doctor keep Goring
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Speaker 1 (26:36):
I think you should continue to let me keep going there,
SINCY three sixty Tomorrow Which twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty,
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Reds have signed a reliever righty Scott Barlow signs a
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a guy who had some really nice seasons in Kansas City.
Was cut loose by the Guardians last year. Thirty two
years old. He has long hair and he's right handed. Cincinnati.
(27:39):
He's also signed reliever Josh Staumont to a minor league contract.
He had an ERA of three seventy and twenty five
games with the Twins last year before he got cut.
Did not allow a home run, which is useful reds
pitchers and catchers going through physicals today and working out tomorrow.
College hoops Tonight you see host Utah at seven on
seven hundred WLW. Kentucky is hosting Tennessee at seven on
(28:03):
ESPN fifteen thirty. Also tonight, Miami battles Toledo and IU
is at Michigan State. Paul Danner Junior is is here
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast. Your
positional Priority Draft big board.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, I felt like I couldn't just say big board
because everybody has a big board, right, So if I
call it the positional priority draft big board, it differentiates.
I understand you feel it.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I understand what I what I liked about it, And
I mean, from my standpoint, it's February of the eleventh,
we're dealing with just surface level stuff. It it does.
It does certainly feel like the needs match where the.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Depth is here. I agree, no that and that was
kind of you know, the point of doing it that
way was I just wanted to take a look at
these these major areas and kind of just compare it
to what you see and what where, what's going to
be there, and what the draft looks like what you're hearing.
And I mean, there's no number of defensive and offensive
(29:07):
linemen that they could take that would make you say, oh,
that's all right, you did it, stop right. And the
good news is I think in this draft you kind
of can just keep doing it. Especially on the defensive line.
You could just keep taking players. But at the top
there's some premium players that should be available. It's just
very reminiscent of what happened at offensive tackle last year,
(29:29):
where you knew that you were gonna have somebody you
really liked there. There's just were so many right at
the top, and that was a premium need for them.
You could base your you could be very comfortable basing
your offseason strategy off of that. That's not always the case.
It's kind of rare to be able to do that
in the draft because it's such a you never know,
(29:51):
such a dice roll what's gonna be there, and you
want to be taking best player available. You don't want
to feel pigeonholed. I feel like you can come into
this and say, we're gonna get good defensive lineman in
this draft. Run one, round two, round three, whatever we're
going to and base some of your decision making off
of that, and that shows whether you're picking at seventeen,
(30:12):
which you know has defensive tackles and edges that that
look great, or you're talking about with picks that you
would see available to you in second and third round.
That's you know, when I talk to people, that's what
I hear the most about is man that second third
round you're going to be getting really good value on
defensive linemen. That's where the like insane quantity really starts
(30:36):
to show itself. So at some point, you know, if
you have if they just end up with just the
three picks in the first two days, I would be
stunned if two of them were not defensive linemen. You know,
it just feels like that's where it needs to come from.
Or certainly you would expect just a ton of picks
that come in from on the trenches.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
What will they do at wide receiver of T Higgins leaves,
I think you'll see them look at free agency and
some of these mid tier guys and I don't know,
you know, they're out there the Darius Slayton's of the world,
people that have played that.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Hey, maybe a guy who's played pretty well, but his
quarterback wasn't so good. Maybe there's more playing with Joe
Burrow now, like there's I think there's a vision that
we talked about that is the second ride receiver here
can kind of be like the tight end here. Put
somebody in that and watch them catch sixty balls for
six hundred yards over and over and over again. Because
(31:38):
when you have things structured the way they are with
Joe and Jamar and the Chase Brown now and the
whole offense the way it is, those are positions that
if you have the ability to get open with any
kind of regularity like Joe, can probably get production out
of that. You're not gonna your offense is going to
change in the way that it's structured, and defenses are
(31:58):
gonna change the way they struck things toward Jamar, but
you can still get production out. So I think you
could say, Okay, do that and some kind of a
draft pick again, you know, and hope that it goes
better than the last third round receiver.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What is the more thankless task filling the shoes of
t Higgins, this uber popular player who's very productive, or
being the landlord who hands over a set of keys
to Jermaine.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Burton, I know which one I don't want to have, right,
I yeah, not not great? What's there? Is there a record?
Is there an NFL record for evictions? It's a great question.
I don't know to look that up. That's got to
be on Pro Football REP. Four receptions, two evictions. That's
not the race would and the evictions are within two
(32:46):
months of each other. Right, I want to know what
was going through the second landlord's head when you know
he's got the least papers and he's got the key,
and it's like, so, what happened at your last place?
And I mean it's kind of out there and then
all right, well I guess so Jermaine, here are the keys. Yeah,
keep it.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
We we don't have that many rules, but you know,
keep it in between the lines.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And already they're like what does that place have to look? Like? Yeah?
Where does he go next? Yeah? That's the so so
you know, we always always hear the stories of like
Chad was living at the at at Paul Brown Stadium
or whatever, like how far are we from it being like, well,
Jermaine's living at the stadium, Like oh good, he's turning
things around. No, like Lily, just no one will give
him a place can show up late if he spends
(33:31):
the night at the facility, So got to go wake
up a perfect Yeah, that's to both worlds. He's not
wreaking havoc in some apartment and you can get you
know where to where he is, you know where to
find him. Hey, Jermaine, meetings in five minutes up and
at him. Let's go. Might be for the best, might
be for the best. Can you just build a little
like Sweet the Jermaine burdens Sweet in the back, or
like find an equipment room or something you knew that
(33:52):
was going to come up tonight. I'd hope, so I'd
be very disappointed. If not, I mean, you're right chasing
down what to eat? And if he could, could he
even out receptions to evictions. There's still times a long
way to go.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Oh, we have months in front of us. I don't
know if he's gonna be all. I don't know if
he's ever gonna play in the NFL again. I do
know he's going to try to find housing, So I mean, well, well,
we'll see, we'll see if the evictions end up outwent
for his sake, I hope not.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And for the sake of anybody handing over those keys.
I I hope not.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I just if you're a landlord and this guy walks
in and he's like, yeah, I hear, I hear, you've
got an apartment for for rent.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Uh yeah, yeah, it might be time to fight. I mean,
like a friend's house. I guess maybe you're looking at
no oh.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
No, because with the landlord, there's financial liability. He loses
his deposit at a friend's house, no way, man, Yeah,
zero chance. A lot of folks grasped onto this who
were watching the Super Bowl late in the game. Uh,
Kevin Burkhard and Tom Brady, we're talking about Nick Sirianni.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
He coach, and hey, he's he's a guy they swapped
out coordinators and he's gonna have to do it again
on offense because Kellen Moore is gonna coach the Saints.
But they were talking about boy, you got to give
a credit to him because he relinquished offensive play calling
and decided to focus on the big picture issues and
let Kellen Moore come in and do the play calling.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
And I had folks call this show yesterday and go,
why can't Zach do that that was there could Bengals related,
He's not. Takeaway he could, He's not. My response to
that was, like, the offense was pretty good last year.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, I don't. I certainly didn't look at it and
be like, man, why aren't any of these offensive play
calls working like they you know, Chase Brown was a
star and everybody's breaking records. They're scoring all these points,
they're scoring in huge games, they're scoring thirty over and
over again. They're on one of the best offensive runs
we've ever seen. And then the first thing you get
(35:50):
is is, you know, fire the play caller or we
need a new play I just, you know, I get it,
like there's there's frustrations with the big picture element of
job that was done last year. But yeah, I felt
like like the offensive performance last year was certainly a
chance to take a break from screaming about the play calling.
But and there were bad moments. Everyone's going to have
(36:12):
bad moments, yeah, but I mean the offense was really good.
I don't. I don't have I didn't have a huge
problem with that.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
I've kind of reached a point where I feel like
Willie Anderson's not going to get the call to camp.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, so the new rules, we'll see what happens with those.
Clearly the voters didn't understand the math because they they
it's the all the all the messaging from them was, well,
you know, we we didn't realize that the way that
it went, that it would end up in this small class,
(36:42):
the smallest class you could have. They changed the rules
eighty percent. It's a bunch of there's a bunch of
stuff that goes into it, but basically it certainly makes
it much harder for players to get in, which that's
fine if that's what the Hall of Fame wants to do,
but you know, not just Willie Anderson. No brutal for
Kenny Anderson, because it is now so much harder for
(37:03):
a Senior Person member to try to get through, even
if you get Now, even if you manage to get through,
you know, the needle in the haystack that has been
trying to come out of the Senior Committee over the
years just seemed to be impossible. Now you get to
the point where you only have a certain percentage chance
of even getting in from that right, and you end
up in front of these voters who they're not focused
(37:24):
on the older players it's like a whole other thing
you got to put in front of them to know,
because it's again the same fifty people that I'm doing
this forever. And so the if it gets harder to
get you've now been a finalist, he is at least
a finalist next year automatically, you know, you get to
keep being a finalist. But look, these first ballot guys
are going to keep coming down the pike. There's only
(37:45):
going to there's always some every year. And if you
have a chance of these classes being down, we're only
three of modern era players get players getting in, and
you got to compete with some of the big names
that are going to be on here the next couple
of years, on top of those that are already in
the mix with you. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's because
here comes Drew Brees and here comes Tom Brady, I mean,
(38:06):
you know, all of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But what's interesting about it is I felt bad for Willie,
but like, and I know people are gonna say it
was a kicker and a Vanitari is not a Hall
of Famer, right.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Well, that list the list of the four, the list
of the four that made it. Yeah, uh, and but
didn't get in. I mean, will you have Willie Yeah,
Keith Lee, Vinitieri, Tory Holt has been had better. He
should have been in before Isaac Bruce, and he's still
outside when he's been a finalist longer than anybody. He
just keeps getting to this finalist round and getting left out.
(38:37):
And you know what, not everybody gets in the Hall
of Fame. That's what makes it special. That's fine, it's
but I think here, here's the frustrating thing for me.
And maybe it's because I'm lazy. You know, we we
do these things consecutively. We're in mid January.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
The Baseball Hall of Fame ballot comes out, and it's
easy to understand. I get how it works. Five hundred
so writers get ballots. Uh, they can each vote for ten.
Dudes gotta get seven. You could argue with the results,
but I know how it works. And then there are
subsequent committees that a player can get rolled through or
thankfully Dave Parker gets through. But I understand how it works.
(39:12):
I don't understand how football works. The voters, they're barely
understanding how it works. They had to kind of learn
as it went how it works this year because they change.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
It and it's silly, it's ridiculous. And you think you
thought the lobbying and politicking was bad before, how about
now when everyone's trying to play this math and numbers game,
it's gonna be brutal. Expand it have there's so many
people that have covered the league for a number of years.
Expand it out and have it work just like baseball.
And that's where your percentages come from. You want to
(39:42):
have the group of fifty get down to your fifteen finalists, okay, okay,
take then take those fifteen finalists and have everybody vote
for their top five or whatever it is, and take
your percentages off of that and have a bigger group.
You avoid all the politicking, You avoid all the lobbying,
all the counting of numbers, and it just gets down
to who deserves it from a broader group of people
(40:03):
that can that are you know, tasked with and ticket seriously,
which they which they would and so you know, but
will that happen? Will not happen. This is the same
thing we've been talking about forever, and it's how you
end up with some of the discrepancies that currently exists
in the hall situation, like oh, I don't know, almost
thirty Steelers being in and Anthony Munno's and Ken Riley
(40:27):
being the only ones basically on a Bengals side. You know,
it's just there's just certain biases that evolve over time
against either types of teams or types of players or
players from certain situations that happen when you have the
same people making so many of these months.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I've never understood a process or rationale lesson and it's
I'm frustrated for Willie. Yes, I mean, Chris Carter was
at the Roger Bacon's stag and I forgot that. It
took him like five or six years. Yeah, he's like
at the time, he's in the top five and like
every major.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Gout hmm, like gotta wait your turn, gotta get in line. Yeah,
and then you get in line, and then you don't
get in right, It just because it ends up then
somebody else. And you know, I it's it's hard because
there are everybody's gonna have a gripe, everyone's gonna have
a complaint when you only can take so many. But
can we just get a clear processes and not have
(41:22):
so much that feels like it happens in this shrouded
back room behind the curtains, and and all the politicking
and lobbying that occurs because of that. It's just everybody
trying to squeeze their agenda through, is what it ends
up being, rather than Hey, how about we all just
vote for who we think belongs and that be it.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Work a little bit short on time here, but your
colleague Mike Sando has a chart in his weekly Pick six.
It's it's toward the bottom, but it's it's a chart
comparing where Joe Burrow stands on the Carson Palmer timeline.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, you care to come in on this. We've talked
about that timeline often on the pop. Maybe we'll talk
about it on the pot tomorrow when you come on.
I'm in maybe we'll maybe we'll talk about that. I mean,
it's you can see. I think we're in. I think
we are in like the two thousand and eight It's
like I think on the timeline, it's like January of
two thousand and eight. I think that's where we exist.
(42:15):
He didn't ask for a trade until three years later. Right,
It can it can diverge from here, but I think
that this is this is where at the time when
Carson first started kind of openly publicly politicking for things
that he thinks should be done, and he had been paid.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
This is an audio medium, But who makes your guys charts?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Look? Look, I am not responsible for that chart. I'm
not gonna I don't. I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I don't outsources to a high school was drafted.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
But if you've printed out many of my stories, you've
seen my charts. My charts don't look like that, and
that's not I don't know enough about the charting situation
that's happening in that story. But I don't really understand
what there's other than there's two colors. There's a couple
different directions. It could really be about anything. Honestly, it
sure could be. The yellow one looks like my four
(43:05):
oh one kid.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah, we'll talk to you tomorrow on the Growler. Thank
you as always. You are not going to be here
for a couple of weeks because you've got vacation, and.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
We'll talk about the comb Call me in Indy. Oh,
I will call me in Indy. I'll be in the
big hallway, you know, trying to try and stay away
from all the action that's happening. I can tell you
about all the activity that's going on. We'll call you. Yeah,
I know you will. I'll be there. That'll be great.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Read Paul's work The Athletic dot com and catches podcast
The Growler. As we say, where you get your podcasts.
It's a couple of minutes away from four o'clock on moegor.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Cincinnati's ESPN
fifteen thirty traffic.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. For more than two
hundred years, the experts that you see health have been
giving heart patients a chance at better outcomes. That's found
this care you can't trust. Expect more at ucehealth dot com.
Southbound seventy one ZE seventy five, the entrance ramp from
Fifth Street blocked off. That is from a disabled semi
(44:06):
Also going to find a disabled vehicle on southbound seventy
five that over at Fort Washington Way, the left lane
blocked off there on that Ezelac with traffic.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
This report is sponsored by
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Speaker 2 (00:07):
Oh yeah, that's right, thank you. It's three all four.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon on Muleger. Thank
you for joining us over having a fun Tuesday. I've
lost track on what the weather is supposed to do,
(00:27):
so I don't know. I'm not even gonna reference it.
We're done early today. UK hoops at five thirty. Wildcats
and Tennessee tonight pregame at five thirty, tip off at
seven o'clock, part of a busy area college basketball night.
We'll go to good Year in an hour, but first,
because it's Tuesday. Paul Tayner Junior from The Athletic and
the Growler podcast is here. He has a ten point
(00:50):
plan to get the Bengals back to the super Bowl.
You could read that at the Athletic dot Com. He
also has and he and I have both been looking
forward to this his first draft big board. Yeah, and
so you can read that at the Athletic dot Com
as well. Follow him on Twitter at Paul Danner Junior.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
How's it going. It's it's going great. It's going great. Uh,
A little bit of snow flurry is still happening out there.
That's our update.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
All.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, they've been sort of intermittent lately, a little just
a touch, just a tiny touch right now.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
One of my my, my daughter had a three day weekend.
They had in service day the day after the Super Bowl. Yes,
same here, not coincidental at all, and so on. She
was playing with one of her friends on Monday who
informed her that there's not going to be school on
Tuesday because it's going to snow. And so I had
to beat the heavy and inform her last night it
might snow, but you're you're going to school tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
You're going to school. Yeah, no, I think that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think it's everybody's got to tighten down the snow days.
At this point, after we went through over the last
couple of months, I have I've printed your ten step
path back to the super Bowl. It makes I feel
like I'm I did something worthwhile. If you decide to
go to the printer, usually I can get you to
go to the printer a couple times a week. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, I like I like, I like to print, I
like to highlight, I like to to leave notes. I
I'd rather flip through than scroll through while you're here,
and then your your draft a big board right here too.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
There it is. There's also something else.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
From the athletic that's Bengals related that you didn't do
that I love, and it's this chart that we're going
to reference here in just a little bit. But first,
the super Bowl, you know, was on Sunday. It was
so I'm obligated as you watch, I did, Yeah, I did?
Did you Yeah? I felt like I give it a
turn it on?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I had it on. What is you?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm obligated to ask what is your biggest Bengals related
Super Bowl takeaway?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah? Well you have to have to do that. I mean,
can it be anything other than just keep filling your
team with defensive linemen with premium picks. I think it
is don't be afraid to go young there. I mean,
you know, you go through all of the contributing defensive
linemen and it's all a bunch of dudes that are
(02:59):
young players that they picked, home grown, they spent high
premium capital on. And it was something that we talked
about this last week how different maybe this Super Bowl
could be from the last time they were chasing Patrick
Mahomes around, and that was they had some older guys
doing it at that point, and here they had a
bunch of young, energetic, freak show athletes doing it and it, boy,
(03:21):
did it ever show right. And so I think I
think that's a message that don't be afraid to go
all in with that and understanding what that come up.
Now the whole league knows that, right. I mean, this
isn't a secret or whatever. You gotta do it right.
It was the funny part, not funny for anybody listening
it to Bengals. I understand this. The Bengals have done this, yeah,
(03:42):
you put it side by side. They've invested in similar ways.
I mean, they didn't draft as high to be able
to get a Jalen Carter, you know, but they have
put a bunch of picks in that are a lot
of them in the same areas as some of the
guys you saw making those plays. They just haven't gotten
many of that, you know, out of them. And that's
(04:05):
kind of, I think been the message that's been consistent
over the last number of months now is they got
to find a way to take these picks and get
something that looks like that the whole league is trying
to do that, but it's not for lack of trying,
they just haven't been good at executing. Ye.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
All right, I have two Bengals related Super Bowl takeaways?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Are you ready? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What I did your mock off season? I had the
Bengals signing Milton Williams. Yeah I kind of want him?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah? Ye still agree with that take ye? Him? Yeah
pretty good? Him and Josh Sweat are sitting there after
that game saying, how about that? Huh, come and get it,
you know, I mean, yeah, no, no doubt. I mean
they seem to have found one there. I think it's
just gosh, it's it also reinforced to me, you know,
(04:50):
just the importance of the game wrecking defensive tackle in general.
Like I just I just feel like it is really
just been the dominant position that no one talks enough
about because they do tend to be anonymous and even
a d you know, the DJ reader. You know, the
Bengals lived this life of what it looks like when
(05:12):
you have a DJ reader pushing the pocket, even when
they don't get the stats. Bengals fans scream this for
years because you saw it, like that is changing the game.
It is pushing the uncomfortable. You can feel the discomfort
in Patrick Mahomes when he goes to step up or
do his thing where he spreads out and can't go anywhere,
(05:32):
because every single play the pocket pushed right into his face.
Guys on skates, guys blowing around other dudes. I mean,
it was just on repeat. And that's the type of
thing that it's just. It's why Burrow wants better at guards.
It's it's why everybody understands how important that is, and
and the Bengals lacking in that the last couple of
(05:53):
years certainly has has shown and Milton Williams is a
is a great example amongst all those dudes everybody, and
it's kind of where it all started for the Eagles,
and pretty obvious.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Here's my second Bengals related number two Super Bowl takeaway.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
It's finally okay to say out loud, Joe Burrow is
better than Patrick Mahomes. You think, yeah, I do, I do,
because why do you say that he performed better this season?
He played quarterback better than Patrick Mahomes did. Patrick Mahomes
team won more often. Patrick Mahomes is more accomplished. But
(06:27):
Joe Burrow played the position of quarterback better than Patrick Mahomes.
If you said that at any point this season, you
got the hang tight.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Patrick Mahomes played the worst game of his life in
the super Bowl on the biggest stage. He didn't look comfortable,
He couldn't make do at all. He struggled with what
Joe Burrow has had to deal with, and he fell
flat on his face. Joe Burrow was the better player
this year, and now it's okay to say that because
everybody watched him fail spectacularly on the biggest stage in sports.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, he did get the taste of Joe Burrow's life. Yeah,
you know, this is kind of what Joe's been doing. Yeah,
is having to live in these circumstances for a while.
I would have liked to have watched that game with
Joe Burrow. Yeah, what's it like? Yeah? How's that feel?
Just sitting there with them going, you know what do
you think? Joe? Can you tell us what he's dealing
with here? It's funny somebody posted some of the highlights
of Burrow against the Eagles, and you forget how well
(07:22):
he was playing and dealing with that pressure in that game.
We went back, I know Charlie and I did a
rewatch and we were looking for some Super Bowl stuff
and went back to that Bengals Eagles games and you
see Burrow taking hits to the chest, dropping dimes down
and go balls down the field, getting the ball out quickly.
A couple of the GESICKI play was in that game
third and twenty two, where you're just having to make ways.
(07:43):
I'll give you that. I get uncomfortable going there because
I don't care about the comparing. I know it matters.
I don't either. I don't either, but but you would
be to turn this into ranking. My eyes glaze over
when it comes to that stuff. But I do believe
the Bengal have the best quarterback in the NFL, the
person who was best at playing quarterback in the National
(08:05):
Football League. Again, he's not the most accomplished, he hasn't
won the most hardware. Mahomes has what Burrow doesn't. But
that argument was crystallized for me by watching the Super Bowl.
Doesn't mean Mahomes is a bum or a bad player.
Doesn't mean that he's not going to be an MVP
next season. I think I said this on our show yesterday.
One of the more interesting storylines this coming season is
(08:26):
going to be does Patrick Mahomes turn into Superman again?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Or is he just a very good quarterback? This year
he was a very good quarterback and had some awesome moments,
and he won playoff games. Burrow was better, And I
feel like for a lot of folks, it took that
game on Sunday to not along with what I have
said for weeks.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's fair, that's a fun takeaway. I don't you know,
I tend to have a hard time viewing it that
narrowly in this one season, and what one game kind
of establishes, I feel, you know, what he had to
deal with in that game is rare, even by Burrow's
pressure standards. I mean, so, I don't you know. I
think it's it's a little different. And the way he's
(09:04):
been able to finish off so many games is something
that that he did over the course of the season
that stands out to But yeah, but from a numbers perspective,
it's your Your argument is air tight. If you put
player a player B as you can do sometimes next
to each other, it's not close. There's there's no doubt
about that. So yeah, you probably can. I get you.
(09:26):
I hear what you're saying. I'm fine with it. I
just don't like. I don't like because I'll be like,
what about Lamar, Like, let's put Lamar in there as
player see and let's get into I mean like, I
just feel like they're in the tier together. Yes, right,
Like that's what matters. That's fine, dude, dude that can
win you a championship tier has very few members in
my opinion, as far as you know, can do it
(09:46):
with minimal help. I mean, and and they're both in
there together. I think you can say that. And I
you know, I think that Burrow will win one one day.
And I think when he does that, you'll hear roaring
of that he's better than Mahomes and and that that's
because that's what in the recency bias every single year
(10:06):
that happened. I mean, you get you get it, And
so yeah, I think that's that. It was thirty one nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I so badly wanted the shutout because I had the
tweet ready to go. Joe Burrow's never been shut out
in the Super Bowl, by the way, neither has anybody else.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I had and then they ruined it by scoring points. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Did you have any takeaways from Joe Burrows New Orleans
Media Blitz. Did you have to sit shut out Mike
g and watch every everyone that he went on?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Every review? I specifically, well, I have, I had a
couple of gys. I don't. I don't. I had to
watch breakfast Ball, which is apparently a show on f
S one Grey Carton. Yeah, and there's a couple other people. Yeah,
and then Parkins from Chicago Parks pretty good. Yeah, yeah,
(10:54):
not a fan is a very blustery for like seven
thirty in the morning. It's a little early for that level.
So it was a lot. There was a lot to
take in there. My decision was to find the first
one that he's doing and watch that in full and
get the feeling for the talking points that Joe's trying
to make and be on top and then like, I'm
(11:17):
not going to watch all of these, right I did.
I did follow some of them, but I didn't. You know, So,
outside of the fact that breakfast Ball is probably not
my cup of tea, my takeaway is he's not ever
going to back down off this point, like, look, you
can do this, I expect you to do this for
(11:39):
the eighty ninth time. I'm drawing the line in the sand.
This is a clear I want to make it clear
what I want. I'm going to fight for my guys,
and that's what this is about. And you know what
I'm I just we've talked about this a bunch. I
just think the fact that he is applying this pressure
(12:01):
and putting it all out there is just fascinating to
watch unfold over the course of this offseason because we
know where everyone stands. Usually you don't. Usually there's just
so much Oh, I don't know, how's this gonna go,
and then it gets the spin machine comes later, and
oh no, he wanted this the whole time, and we
we always knew it was gonna be okay to let
(12:22):
he go, or that Joe was gonna be okay. No,
everyone knows where everyone stands on this, specifically all of
these players believing you can do it. There's no excuses here.
You can do this, and you're if you don't, you're
choosing not to, and I don't think you should. I
think we all want to be together and will help you.
(12:43):
It's it's erasing all excuses and just making sure everyone
is clear here. On how they feel about it. That's
what makes it fascinating. I don't know how it's gonna
play out. I don't know if it's gonna have any
effect at all. In fact, i'd probably be more willing
to say it's gonna have the opposite effect that they'd
wanted to have. The further you did your heel, because
I've seen this organization over the years that said, we'll
watch it and we'll know how everyone felt going into it,
(13:06):
rather than having to guess if we're getting spun later.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I played some audio from Breakfast Ball. I did
peruse that because I wanted to hear if Craig Carton
and Joe Burrow talked it all about Craig going to prison.
I didn't know if Joe wanted to know what prison
life was like, and here's an opportunity for to ask
somebody who's been in the can. But we played audio
from the first take one where they laughed at him,
(13:31):
They laughed in his face.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
They did they did, I mean, I mean they asked them.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
The question, you know was similarly worded to all the
other ones he's been getting about, you know, what makes
you think the Bengals can do this, and Joe started
to talk about we've got cap space and they literally
laughed in his face.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
His face. Yeah, I mean, you know, but look, the
same people that have been laughing at the Bengals for years,
and they sometimes they've ended up with egg on their face.
Sometimes they have it right. I mean, there's been plenty
of times where people sitting on that desk have had
to eat their words, and plenty of times that they've
stood and yelled louder. They're gonna yell either way, right,
(14:09):
but yeah, it's it's funny to see. And then actually,
actually I'm kinctually happy for them at least they actually
did do it to somebody's face. Yeah, instead of just
constantly being behind the back and ah, they laughed at them.
I mean, we'll see, all right. Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Paul Danner Junior is here from the Athletic dot Com.
He has a ten step path to Super Bowl sixty
how the Bengals can get back to the big game.
It's a it's a good read. You should go read
it now at the Athletic dot Com. There are a
couple of points I want to talk about. Are you
gonna laugh in my face about point two?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
But I am going to talk about point two, okay,
because I think it's a valid point.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, it's a valid suggest You'll probably laugh on my
face about something else though, undeniably. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Paul's here till four, so we have forty one minutes
to find something to laugh at him about. I'm here
till five thirty. Mullegor ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the UC Health
Traffic Center. For more than two hundred years, the experts
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expect more at UCHealth dot com. On two seventy five
(15:19):
north and southbound, you're going to find the left two
lanes blocked off in each direction at US fifty. Crews
working on the accident as well. There southbound seventy five.
It's a disabled vehicle that is off on the left
shoulder at Fort Washington Way. I'm at Ezelk with traffic.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Twenty four minutes after three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Mogger with Paul Danner Junior
covering the Bengals off season Free agency, the draft, and
more at the Athletic dot Com and this podcast. The
Growler podcast is a must watch and listen as well.
UH Paul has a ten step path to Super Bowl
(15:59):
sixty the Bengals. Ten ten steps. That's all you gotta do,
only ten.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Ten easy things. Ten easy things. I wonder how many
of these ten will actually get that. That's a there's
probably an I remember. Yeah, I think an over under
on six and a half is probably fair.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
So item number two, yeah, trade Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, I know, I'm not super thrilled with it either,
Like I just I am. I mentioned this a little
bit in your first segment. I am just sort of
of the there's a lot to fix, go all in
on all of these young guys, and and go. It's
(16:40):
not a it's not a matter of like gotta save
the money. I think philosophically going young together with a
bunch of people and getting more picks, specifically those in
a draft where you know you'll be able to get
a premium pick Lineman and an assumption that you'd be
trading Trey Hendrickson or maybe you're getting a player back,
a young player of some sort whatever, but knowing that
(17:03):
you can add to that mix on top of what
you already have to add to that mix on a
defensive line. Can have that give I think just gives
you a unique juice and you can cover more ground
in terms of all the things they need to fix
and throw more answers at the problem versus betting on
(17:24):
if you're talking about extension versus trade, because I think
it's pretty clear here that that would not be an
easy path to making Tray play out this contract. They
certainly can and deal with eat the distraction and go
forward and know that he'll go play. They can do that,
But if you're talking about one versus the other, I'd
rather take the chances that a bunch of young players
(17:47):
cohesively create a sort of unique pass rushing juice to them,
versus you're going to continue for multiple years to get
something resembling what you have been getting out of Trey Hendrickson.
If you told me I could get the last three
years I just got out of Tray Fredrickson, I would
pay him more than Nick Bosa. You know what I mean.
It's not about Trey the player, It's about the lack
of precedent of getting that type of production. When you
(18:11):
start crossing the age that he's at, it's just his history.
I got somebody came into my mailbag questions and was
taking a shot at me, like, hey, how about we
get some brevity, bro. You didn't have to put all
fifty of the top pass rushers with their ages from
the last five years, And I said, yeah, I did.
It was to prove a point, visually, keep going and
(18:33):
keep going until you find someone who's thirty one or older.
Keep going, keep going. There's fifty names here and it's
just a three at the bottom. You know, he didn't
have to read all those names. I think he wanted to.
I was trying to make the point that you don't
have to read there's so many you just keep going.
You find anybody with the age on September first of
that year that actually ended up in that world that
(18:55):
Trey has lived in. Okay, it's maybe he does, But
I would rather bet on a bunch of young players
coming together to do something not what the Eagles have done,
but like Eagles ish right, the Eagles adjacent rams adjacent,
Then you're gonna get what you got out of Trey Hendrickson,
(19:18):
and you can and building around that is fine, Like,
I think you can win either way. I just I
like personally the idea of doing that, taking some of
that money and using it elsewhere, but mostly about just
kind of throwing a bunch of young, talented athletic players
at this pass rush.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
If the goal of the franchise is to have the
smoothest off season ever, yeah, then we are taking off
the table having him play out the last year of
his deal. So then it comes down to an either
or thing for me at least trade or extend. And
I'm just not that interested in Trey Hendrickson in twenty
(19:57):
twenty seven, yeah, being paid for what he didn't twenty four.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah. And like I said, I mean, we've certainly seen
the show before where you tell them tough, that's your contract,
come play it eight But comes with noise, right, it
comes with noise. But if you're saying, look, we'll eat
that noise.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Which is what I would do, I'm okay eating the noise.
I'm okay going you know what, Fine, We'll put up
with this. This is life in the NFL. I said
this to you, I think last week, like I've just
accepted that this is unavoidable as long as you have
good players, somebody's always going to want to get paid.
Somebody's always going to want an extension, somebody's always going
to want a trade. Someone's not going to be happy.
You just have to figure out a way to deal
with it. And if your culture is what they always
(20:38):
say it is, then you ought to figure out how
to just overcome it. But if you're going, you know what,
screw that. We are avoiding the noise we want the most.
Our objective number one is the most peaceful offseason and
training camp. Ever, then you can't do that, then that
comes off the table, and it's one or the other.
And the preference for me is to get younger using trays.
(20:58):
Stature is value value. Yeah, and we'll go in that direction,
And okay, we're gonna miss Tray, but we'll figure it
out with what we can spend that we're freeing up
and with what we could use with those picks, and
the objective is accomplished. No Trey hendrickson noise.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, And I don't you know how much does that matter?
I mean, that's a question that they have to ask themselves,
is how much do they because you know Trey had
noise last year? Yeah, and and it ended quickly, it
went away. Will that be the same? Will he Will
you go get angry Trey Hendrickson production? Maybe like, maybe
(21:35):
that's something you just say you're willing to take. Maybe
that's that's the thing that ends up being the bottom
of the totem pole. Here is everybody else gets their
deals and Trey has to just kind of suck it
up and play on his current contract and be angry
about it. I don't there's a number of I mean,
it's the fascinating aspect of this entire offseason. Ques so
many different ways that you can go with all of this.
(22:00):
That's just for me because I do think that resetting
the culture without just drama, there's so much drama capability
right now without it, I think, and just getting that
young energy back with a new defensive coordinator known for
kind of being able to develop all of that stuff,
just lean all the way into that. That's why to me,
(22:21):
I would just philosophically go that direction with the assumption
that you know, there's a lot of value in what
you could probably get for him right now.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
What happens to Trey's value with Miles Garrett putting himself
in the market.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I don't know. I mean, you know, the Browns have
to actually be willing to do that, you know what
I mean. And so I think it exposes teams that
are desperate to find a dominant pass rusher. And perhaps
you would have two teams bidding against each other and
figuring out pretty openly what they're willing to do, and
(22:56):
the one that doesn't get the guy is like, well,
but for seventy five percent of the price that we
were going to give for Miles Garrett, we could go
get this guy, you know, because I think he would
be probably the second biggest thing. There's other names that
are out there. I mean, Michael Parsons, potentially Max Crosby.
I don't know if how real any of that will
prove to be here, if it's just everyone trying to
(23:16):
exert leverage right now. But so I don't know if
it's a direct effect, but there's so many pass rushers
being talked about, and maybe the bigger effect though, will
be how many pass rushers there are in this draft.
We've seen that in many years where teams were just
not willing to go there in drafts where that position
(23:37):
was so deep they knew they could get something there,
and so they're not as motivated to do that little
bit extra to make something like a trade for a
current player happen. That probably would have a bigger effect
than anything that's gonna come of Miles Garrett.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Trey Hendrickson had a many media blitz last week, one
on the Pat McAfee Show, and his comments kind of
kicked all of this into a different gear. And he
takeaways from his many media blitz.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, I mean, it's got to be the comment about
you know, I wish I wouldn't have heard it from
my dad in the text with a tweet. That's the
it's we're back to the communication thing again, which haring thing,
recurring thing. I mean, it goes as far back as
AJ Green and Andrew Whitworth and I mean we've talked
about that's that's been something that's Jonah Williams and DJ
(24:28):
Reader and T Higgins and Jamar and Jesse Bates and
like it. Well, and I I get it, like this
is the type of stuff you here said in the
middle of negotiations, but it just seems so consistent, and
it's like there, you know, there's got to be a
time to revisit there's got to be a time to
(24:49):
revisit the approach. Is there is can we Is there
something you can revisit about the approach? Is there a
new way to to kickstart these negotiations? Is it? Is
it about the types of offers that are being made
to kickstart these negotiations? Is it about setting expectations for
how you think it's gonna go and them just not
feeling lost and unsure or whatever it is? It feels
(25:13):
like maybe just a little a little more detail needs
to be given to that because it is just it
just seems it's so consistent, and that's just you don't
mind I think as an organization having players have making
the blitz that they're doing like you prefer it. But
this is what it is, is the NFL man right,
They're gonna keep putting microphones in front of these guys
faces because it gets everything they want. You can handle
(25:34):
everything that was said for me this week, except for
that's the one where you're like, can we not have that?
We not make it look like we weren't proactive and
understanding this and and have this antagonistic feel. So that's
that's the one. The one thing that stood out from
last week all right, I gotta ask a questions about
your big board. Oh good, okay, that's available at Athletic
(25:55):
dot com. We have to talk about wide receivers, we
have to talk about tight ends. We have to talk
about a theme that came up on our show yesterday,
Hall of Fame voting and a chart in the Athletic.
You keep showing me the chart. I'm trying to think
that I think I know what chart that is. Like charts. Yeah,
I like charts too. Like the chart. This wasn't in
your piece. This was in Mike Sando's piece.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yes, but I know the where I thought it was
a fun, fun chart that I think I want to
see this to be a thing moving forward.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well, I'll get to that when we come back.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Sports Headlines next twenty five Away from for this is
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SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Do we want to move on to doctor keep Goring
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Speaker 1 (26:36):
I think you should continue to let me keep going there,
SINCY three sixty Tomorrow Which twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty,
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Reds have signed a reliever righty Scott Barlow signs a
one year, two and a half million dollar contract. He's
a guy who had some really nice seasons in Kansas City.
Was cut loose by the Guardians last year. Thirty two
years old. He has long hair and he's right handed. Cincinnati.
(27:39):
He's also signed reliever Josh Staumont to a minor league contract.
He had an ERA of three seventy and twenty five
games with the Twins last year before he got cut.
Did not allow a home run, which is useful reds
pitchers and catchers going through physicals today and working out tomorrow.
College hoops Tonight you see host Utah at seven on
seven hundred WLW. Kentucky is hosting Tennessee at seven on
(28:03):
ESPN fifteen thirty. Also tonight, Miami battles Toledo and IU
is at Michigan State. Paul Danner Junior is is here
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast. Your
positional Priority Draft big board.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, I felt like I couldn't just say big board
because everybody has a big board, right, So if I
call it the positional priority draft big board, it differentiates.
I understand you feel it.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I understand what I what I liked about it, And
I mean, from my standpoint, it's February of the eleventh,
we're dealing with just surface level stuff. It it does.
It does certainly feel like the needs match where the.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Depth is here. I agree, no that and that was
kind of you know, the point of doing it that
way was I just wanted to take a look at
these these major areas and kind of just compare it
to what you see and what where, what's going to
be there, and what the draft looks like what you're hearing.
And I mean, there's no number of defensive and offensive
(29:07):
linemen that they could take that would make you say, oh,
that's all right, you did it, stop right. And the
good news is I think in this draft you kind
of can just keep doing it. Especially on the defensive line.
You could just keep taking players. But at the top
there's some premium players that should be available. It's just
very reminiscent of what happened at offensive tackle last year,
(29:29):
where you knew that you were gonna have somebody you
really liked there. There's just were so many right at
the top, and that was a premium need for them.
You could base your you could be very comfortable basing
your offseason strategy off of that. That's not always the case.
It's kind of rare to be able to do that
in the draft because it's such a you never know,
(29:51):
such a dice roll what's gonna be there, and you
want to be taking best player available. You don't want
to feel pigeonholed. I feel like you can come into
this and say, we're gonna get good defensive lineman in
this draft. Run one, round two, round three, whatever we're
going to and base some of your decision making off
of that, and that shows whether you're picking at seventeen,
(30:12):
which you know has defensive tackles and edges that that
look great, or you're talking about with picks that you
would see available to you in second and third round.
That's you know, when I talk to people, that's what
I hear the most about is man that second third
round you're going to be getting really good value on
defensive linemen. That's where the like insane quantity really starts
(30:36):
to show itself. So at some point, you know, if
you have if they just end up with just the
three picks in the first two days, I would be
stunned if two of them were not defensive linemen. You know,
it just feels like that's where it needs to come from.
Or certainly you would expect just a ton of picks
that come in from on the trenches.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
What will they do at wide receiver of T Higgins leaves,
I think you'll see them look at free agency and
some of these mid tier guys and I don't know,
you know, they're out there the Darius Slayton's of the world,
people that have played that.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Hey, maybe a guy who's played pretty well, but his
quarterback wasn't so good. Maybe there's more playing with Joe
Burrow now, like there's I think there's a vision that
we talked about that is the second ride receiver here
can kind of be like the tight end here. Put
somebody in that and watch them catch sixty balls for
six hundred yards over and over and over again. Because
(31:38):
when you have things structured the way they are with
Joe and Jamar and the Chase Brown now and the
whole offense the way it is, those are positions that
if you have the ability to get open with any
kind of regularity like Joe, can probably get production out
of that. You're not gonna your offense is going to
change in the way that it's structured, and defenses are
(31:58):
gonna change the way they struck things toward Jamar, but
you can still get production out. So I think you
could say, Okay, do that and some kind of a
draft pick again, you know, and hope that it goes
better than the last third round receiver.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What is the more thankless task filling the shoes of
t Higgins, this uber popular player who's very productive, or
being the landlord who hands over a set of keys
to Jermaine.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Burton, I know which one I don't want to have, right,
I yeah, not not great? What's there? Is there a record?
Is there an NFL record for evictions? It's a great question.
I don't know to look that up. That's got to
be on Pro Football REP. Four receptions, two evictions. That's
not the race would and the evictions are within two
(32:46):
months of each other. Right, I want to know what
was going through the second landlord's head when you know
he's got the least papers and he's got the key,
and it's like, so, what happened at your last place?
And I mean it's kind of out there and then
all right, well I guess so Jermaine, here are the keys. Yeah,
keep it.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
We we don't have that many rules, but you know,
keep it in between the lines.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And already they're like what does that place have to look? Like? Yeah?
Where does he go next? Yeah? That's the so so
you know, we always always hear the stories of like
Chad was living at the at at Paul Brown Stadium
or whatever, like how far are we from it being like, well,
Jermaine's living at the stadium, Like oh good, he's turning
things around. No, like Lily, just no one will give
him a place can show up late if he spends
(33:31):
the night at the facility, So got to go wake
up a perfect Yeah, that's to both worlds. He's not
wreaking havoc in some apartment and you can get you
know where to where he is, you know where to
find him. Hey, Jermaine, meetings in five minutes up and
at him. Let's go. Might be for the best, might
be for the best. Can you just build a little
like Sweet the Jermaine burdens Sweet in the back, or
like find an equipment room or something you knew that
(33:52):
was going to come up tonight. I'd hope, so I'd
be very disappointed. If not, I mean, you're right chasing
down what to eat? And if he could, could he
even out receptions to evictions. There's still times a long
way to go.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Oh, we have months in front of us. I don't
know if he's gonna be all. I don't know if
he's ever gonna play in the NFL again. I do
know he's going to try to find housing, So I mean, well, well,
we'll see, we'll see if the evictions end up outwent
for his sake, I hope not.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And for the sake of anybody handing over those keys.
I I hope not.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I just if you're a landlord and this guy walks
in and he's like, yeah, I hear, I hear, you've
got an apartment for for rent.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Uh yeah, yeah, it might be time to fight. I mean,
like a friend's house. I guess maybe you're looking at
no oh.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
No, because with the landlord, there's financial liability. He loses
his deposit at a friend's house, no way, man, Yeah,
zero chance. A lot of folks grasped onto this who
were watching the Super Bowl late in the game. Uh,
Kevin Burkhard and Tom Brady, we're talking about Nick Sirianni.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
He coach, and hey, he's he's a guy they swapped
out coordinators and he's gonna have to do it again
on offense because Kellen Moore is gonna coach the Saints.
But they were talking about boy, you got to give
a credit to him because he relinquished offensive play calling
and decided to focus on the big picture issues and
let Kellen Moore come in and do the play calling.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
And I had folks call this show yesterday and go,
why can't Zach do that that was there could Bengals related,
He's not. Takeaway he could, He's not. My response to
that was, like, the offense was pretty good last year.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, I don't. I certainly didn't look at it and
be like, man, why aren't any of these offensive play
calls working like they you know, Chase Brown was a
star and everybody's breaking records. They're scoring all these points,
they're scoring in huge games, they're scoring thirty over and
over again. They're on one of the best offensive runs
we've ever seen. And then the first thing you get
(35:50):
is is, you know, fire the play caller or we
need a new play I just, you know, I get it,
like there's there's frustrations with the big picture element of
job that was done last year. But yeah, I felt
like like the offensive performance last year was certainly a
chance to take a break from screaming about the play calling.
But and there were bad moments. Everyone's going to have
(36:12):
bad moments, yeah, but I mean the offense was really good.
I don't. I don't have I didn't have a huge
problem with that.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
I've kind of reached a point where I feel like
Willie Anderson's not going to get the call to camp.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, so the new rules, we'll see what happens with those.
Clearly the voters didn't understand the math because they they
it's the all the all the messaging from them was, well,
you know, we we didn't realize that the way that
it went, that it would end up in this small class,
(36:42):
the smallest class you could have. They changed the rules
eighty percent. It's a bunch of there's a bunch of
stuff that goes into it, but basically it certainly makes
it much harder for players to get in, which that's
fine if that's what the Hall of Fame wants to do,
but you know, not just Willie Anderson. No brutal for
Kenny Anderson, because it is now so much harder for
(37:03):
a Senior Person member to try to get through, even
if you get Now, even if you manage to get through,
you know, the needle in the haystack that has been
trying to come out of the Senior Committee over the
years just seemed to be impossible. Now you get to
the point where you only have a certain percentage chance
of even getting in from that right, and you end
up in front of these voters who they're not focused
(37:24):
on the older players it's like a whole other thing
you got to put in front of them to know,
because it's again the same fifty people that I'm doing
this forever. And so the if it gets harder to
get you've now been a finalist, he is at least
a finalist next year automatically, you know, you get to
keep being a finalist. But look, these first ballot guys
are going to keep coming down the pike. There's only
(37:45):
going to there's always some every year. And if you
have a chance of these classes being down, we're only
three of modern era players get players getting in, and
you got to compete with some of the big names
that are going to be on here the next couple
of years, on top of those that are already in
the mix with you. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's because
here comes Drew Brees and here comes Tom Brady, I mean,
(38:06):
you know, all of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But what's interesting about it is I felt bad for Willie,
but like, and I know people are gonna say it
was a kicker and a Vanitari is not a Hall
of Famer, right.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Well, that list the list of the four, the list
of the four that made it. Yeah, uh, and but
didn't get in. I mean, will you have Willie Yeah,
Keith Lee, Vinitieri, Tory Holt has been had better. He
should have been in before Isaac Bruce, and he's still
outside when he's been a finalist longer than anybody. He
just keeps getting to this finalist round and getting left out.
(38:37):
And you know what, not everybody gets in the Hall
of Fame. That's what makes it special. That's fine, it's
but I think here, here's the frustrating thing for me.
And maybe it's because I'm lazy. You know, we we
do these things consecutively. We're in mid January.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
The Baseball Hall of Fame ballot comes out, and it's
easy to understand. I get how it works. Five hundred
so writers get ballots. Uh, they can each vote for ten.
Dudes gotta get seven. You could argue with the results,
but I know how it works. And then there are
subsequent committees that a player can get rolled through or
thankfully Dave Parker gets through. But I understand how it works.
(39:12):
I don't understand how football works. The voters, they're barely
understanding how it works. They had to kind of learn
as it went how it works this year because they change.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
It and it's silly, it's ridiculous. And you think you
thought the lobbying and politicking was bad before, how about
now when everyone's trying to play this math and numbers game,
it's gonna be brutal. Expand it have there's so many
people that have covered the league for a number of years.
Expand it out and have it work just like baseball.
And that's where your percentages come from. You want to
(39:42):
have the group of fifty get down to your fifteen finalists, okay, okay,
take then take those fifteen finalists and have everybody vote
for their top five or whatever it is, and take
your percentages off of that and have a bigger group.
You avoid all the politicking, You avoid all the lobbying,
all the counting of numbers, and it just gets down
to who deserves it from a broader group of people
(40:03):
that can that are you know, tasked with and ticket seriously,
which they which they would and so you know, but
will that happen? Will not happen. This is the same
thing we've been talking about forever, and it's how you
end up with some of the discrepancies that currently exists
in the hall situation, like oh, I don't know, almost
thirty Steelers being in and Anthony Munno's and Ken Riley
(40:27):
being the only ones basically on a Bengals side. You know,
it's just there's just certain biases that evolve over time
against either types of teams or types of players or
players from certain situations that happen when you have the
same people making so many of these months.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I've never understood a process or rationale lesson and it's
I'm frustrated for Willie. Yes, I mean, Chris Carter was
at the Roger Bacon's stag and I forgot that. It
took him like five or six years. Yeah, he's like
at the time, he's in the top five and like
every major.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Gout hmm, like gotta wait your turn, gotta get in line. Yeah,
and then you get in line, and then you don't
get in right, It just because it ends up then
somebody else. And you know, I it's it's hard because
there are everybody's gonna have a gripe, everyone's gonna have
a complaint when you only can take so many. But
can we just get a clear processes and not have
(41:22):
so much that feels like it happens in this shrouded
back room behind the curtains, and and all the politicking
and lobbying that occurs because of that. It's just everybody
trying to squeeze their agenda through, is what it ends
up being, rather than Hey, how about we all just
vote for who we think belongs and that be it.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Work a little bit short on time here, but your
colleague Mike Sando has a chart in his weekly Pick six.
It's it's toward the bottom, but it's it's a chart
comparing where Joe Burrow stands on the Carson Palmer timeline.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, you care to come in on this. We've talked
about that timeline often on the pop. Maybe we'll talk
about it on the pot tomorrow when you come on.
I'm in maybe we'll maybe we'll talk about that. I mean,
it's you can see. I think we're in. I think
we are in like the two thousand and eight It's
like I think on the timeline, it's like January of
two thousand and eight. I think that's where we exist.
(42:15):
He didn't ask for a trade until three years later. Right,
It can it can diverge from here, but I think
that this is this is where at the time when
Carson first started kind of openly publicly politicking for things
that he thinks should be done, and he had been paid.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
This is an audio medium, But who makes your guys charts?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Look? Look, I am not responsible for that chart. I'm
not gonna I don't. I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I don't outsources to a high school was drafted.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
But if you've printed out many of my stories, you've
seen my charts. My charts don't look like that, and
that's not I don't know enough about the charting situation
that's happening in that story. But I don't really understand
what there's other than there's two colors. There's a couple
different directions. It could really be about anything. Honestly, it
sure could be. The yellow one looks like my four
(43:05):
oh one kid.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah, we'll talk to you tomorrow on the Growler. Thank
you as always. You are not going to be here
for a couple of weeks because you've got vacation, and.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
We'll talk about the comb Call me in Indy. Oh,
I will call me in Indy. I'll be in the
big hallway, you know, trying to try and stay away
from all the action that's happening. I can tell you
about all the activity that's going on. We'll call you. Yeah,
I know you will. I'll be there. That'll be great.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Read Paul's work The Athletic dot com and catches podcast
The Growler. As we say, where you get your podcasts.
It's a couple of minutes away from four o'clock on moegor.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Cincinnati's ESPN
fifteen thirty traffic.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. For more than two
hundred years, the experts that you see health have been
giving heart patients a chance at better outcomes. That's found
this care you can't trust. Expect more at ucehealth dot com.
Southbound seventy one ZE seventy five, the entrance ramp from
Fifth Street blocked off. That is from a disabled semi
(44:06):
Also going to find a disabled vehicle on southbound seventy
five that over at Fort Washington Way, the left lane
blocked off there on that Ezelac with traffic.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
This report is sponsored by
Mo Egger News
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