2/13/25 - The Mo Egger Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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No one covers the Bengals like ESPN fifteen to thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Oh boy, what's up? How you doing good? Afternoon? I'm oegar.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening. Hope
you're having an awesome Thursday afternoon. Valentine's Day Eve. Yeah.

(00:35):
Chad Brendle's gonna join us in forty minutes to talk
UC hoops. Bearcats have won three straight games Massive Opportunity,
Massive Opportunity, and aimes on Saturday, UC and Iowa State
That coming up in forty minutes. Xavier keeps its season
alive last night in a win. Weird game. Weird game
last night, terrible start, awesome middle, uninspiring end. Uh never.

(01:00):
I felt the game was in doubt once they went
up twenty six points, even though Providence kept chipping away.
Dante Maddox was terrific again last night. We'll get to
that a little bit later on. We're also going to
chat with one of the experts from Ortho Sinsey about
RHT Louder and Wade, Miley and more coming up at
four thirty three. Entire show preview is available on Twitter

(01:21):
at mueger Thanks to Emory Federal Credit Union, your credit
union with heart since nineteen thirty nine. Now what I
like about Emory Federal Credit Union. There's a branch maybe
ninety seconds from my house. And I'm old school, so
when I go in to do official banking business, I
go in, I walk in. Maybe it's because my grandmother

(01:41):
was a bank manager for twenty six years. And I
go in and I say hi to everybody. And they've
got a refrigerator with soft drinks, one per customer, but
I take one every single time because I like me
a good soft drink. So check out EMORYFCU dot org.
A little bit of everything as to saying this to
to Tony Pike about what Joe Burrow dropped in our

(02:04):
laps two months ago and what he continues to drop
in our lap, which are these these sound bites, these
interviews where he talks about T Higgins and wanting to
keep T Higgins. And it's great you get gifts sometimes
in this business, if you're in the content creation business.
I root for two things. I root for Cincinnati sports
teams to win, because I'm a Cincinnati sports fan right lifelong,

(02:29):
and the more the teams are winning, the more excitement
there is, the more people engage in platforms like mine.
So I root for I root for the teams to win.
Number one. Number two, I root for things that drive
good conversations. And that can mean good stuff, and it
can mean sometimes controversial stuff, and it can mean sometimes

(02:49):
bad stuff. I root for those two things. This was
not a successful Bengals season in twenty twenty four, but
it gave us no shortage of things to discuss. And
then Joe Burrow and T Higgins dropping in our laps.
Two and a half months worth of content about t
Higgins in twenty twenty five and free agency, maybe the
franchise tag and what the fallout could be if they

(03:10):
don't sign him, that has fallen in our lap. It's
been great. We had this in January of twenty twenty,
which was about two months before COVID hit. January of
twenty twenty, we knew the Bengals were gonna have the
number one overall pick. They had just come off a
miserable season in Zach Taylor's first year, but they were

(03:32):
gonna have not only the number one overall pick, but
it was pretty obvious they were going to draft Joe Burrow.
One of the great days in Bengals history. December twenty second,
twenty nineteen. Bengals almost win, still lose to the Miami Dolphins,
and they clinch the number one overall pick, and then

(03:53):
a couple of days later, Joe Burrow with Bengals fans
watching closer than ever a Joe Burrow game in college,
he torches Oklahoma in the College Football Playoff semi final.
It was great. It's great. And so as a talk
show host, a content creator as we call the term nowadays,

(04:14):
I was wondering, like, all right, well, huh, there's not
gonna be that much to talk about. Like, we know
who they're gonna take. We know exactly who they're gonna
We can pretend we don't know, but we know who
they're gonna take. And typically draft talk is driven by, well,
who they may take. Even the the Pina Soul Jamar
Chase thing took on a life of its own. It
was a debate about two players. The later you're drafting,

(04:35):
the more unknowns there are, the more players and positions
you have to talk about, and so I was wondering, like, man,
what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do
in January and February? Knowing who the Bengals are going
to take, I guess we could talk about who they're
gonna take with the thirty third overall pick. And by
the way, I remember on this show Jason Fitz at
the time of ESPN saying they should take this T

(04:56):
Higgins dude from Clemson. So we spend some time on that.
But I was wondering, what are we gonna do? And
then right when the regular season ended, there started to
be these national outlets. I remember the Dan Patrick Show
went in on this, and Pro Football Talk went in
on this, and a handful of others driving the narrative, well,

(05:20):
is Joe Burrow better off pulling an Eli or is
is Joe Burrow better off pulling in Eli? Manning making
it known in two thousand and four that he wasn't
gonna play for the Chargers, which mant the Chargers ended
up with Philip Rivers and John Elway, essentially forcing the

(05:40):
hand of the time Baltimore Colts in nineteen eighty three
letting them know I'm not gonna play for them, So
he ends up going to the Denver Broncos. They manipulated
where they were gonna go, and a lot of folks wondered,
could Joe do that? Will he do that? And then
after that there were these conversations about if Joe Burrow
goes to Cincinnati, Man, you're talking about a guy who
has a chance to be really, really good, but oh boy,

(06:01):
if he goes to Cincinnati, they're just gonna screw it up.
And I thought, and I think most of us thought,
some of those conversations were stupid. I spent a lot
of time like dispelling what people thought they heard. I
can't tell you how many times somebody would text me.
I even't had conversations with advertisers who are like, yeah,

(06:21):
I heard Burrow's not gonna come here. He's gonna tell
him no. And I remember going like, no, stop, that's
don't worry about that. He's there's no reason for him
to not do that. The idea is for him to
start his NFL career as quickly as possible so he
can get to a second contract. He has no leverage here.
He's gonna be drafted by the Bengals, He's gonna play
for the Bengals and chances are he's going to be

(06:42):
really good. And those things happened, You remember that, right,
And it was at times annoying and it was the
times entertaining, but it's we talked about it for like
two months and then March came here and two things happened.
A COVID hit which screwed up everything, and free agency started,
and the Bengals started to make big splashes and free

(07:03):
agency so much so that we kind of stopped talking
about Joe Burrow and God, if he goes to Cincinnati,
only the worst outcome is going to be reality, right,
we stopped. The thing is, though, those conversations then were
not about Joe Burrow's rookie season, and they were not
about his second or third or fourth season. They really

(07:29):
weren't that much about whether or not he would sign
a second contract here, which he obviously has. It was
about the period of time we're entering into right now
where the quarterback has established himself as one of the
best in his profession. There's no getting around that. I mean,
you might not think Joe as the best quarterback in

(07:52):
the NFL. I think there's very little denying this guy
is among the best of the best. He is one
of the faces of the league. He has been a
smashing success. He's been an MVP finalist twice. Like he
is a star. He has done everything the Bengals ever
could have asked for and some he is a star.
He has established he's got some pelts on the wall,

(08:15):
as my dad might say, he's got some bona fides,
he's got some poll, he's got some clout, And so
I think those conversations back then were really about what's
gonna happen when Joe Burrow has achieved clout and poll
and he's established himself and he's got some pelts on

(08:37):
the wall, what's going to happen. Well, we're all about
to find out. This is the test of what so
many people five years ago we're talking about. This is
the test of what so many people thought would happen
if Joe came to Cincinnati. Not so much will they

(09:01):
ruin him, but will they fail to win and then
do things that eventually get Joe to a point that
he decides I don't want to be with the Bengals anymore.
Will they waste him? Will they ruin him? Will they
make him want to leave. I don't know the answers

(09:23):
to those things. I do think Joe is talking on
his national media blitz where he talks about because he's
asked about t Higgins all the time. I think he
is speaking from a place of frustration. I think he's
speaking from a place of exasperation. I think he's speaking
from a place of information. I think he's speaking from
a place of curiosity. But how this unfolds, I think

(09:48):
is dramatically going to impact the relationship that Joe has
with the team. Obviously, he's under contract for the next
five years, but uh, you know, it's not gonna be
that far from now. It's not gonna be that long
until we start talking about Joe into the next decade.

(10:11):
I mean, if Joe Burrow plays all of his career
in Cincinnati, there's a very good chance, in fact, I
would say almost inevitability, that that contract extension is going
to be signed well before he hits free agency. It's
gonna be signed maybe when he has two years left
on his deal. And so what does that leave us?
It leaves us the next three years. I said this

(10:32):
a couple of times yesterday, though I barely remember because
I was so damn high on cold medicine. I can't
breathe today, Which is nice that the next three seasons
are huge for this guy. Five quarterbacks in the history
of the NFL have won their first Super Bowl after
their eighth season. So, you know, you hate to say,
put up a shut up time, but the reality is

(10:53):
he's going to be measured against Mahomes and he's going
to be measured against guys who have multiple rings. Well, okay,
do you really want to go into years nine, ten, eleven,
and twelve still looking for your first If that's the case. No, Like,
these next couple of years are going to be vital,
and they're gonna be vital for this franchise to win
while they have a quarterback who's in his prime and
gonna be vital for this team to take advantage of

(11:14):
the star players they do have. Its gonna be vital
for Zach Taylor, but it's also gonna be vital if
you want to prove once and for all that the
doubters five years ago were incorrect because what those doubts
were were not based on what would happen with Joe

(11:35):
and the Bengals. The first couple of years that was
going to be a honeymoon, and it was a honeymoon.
It's gonna be about what happens when Joe is established,
when he's had time to kind of understand how the
league works, when he starts to get impatient with not winning.
What's gonna happen? Then what's gonna happen? Well, in the
coming years, we're about to find out what Joe is

(11:57):
saying about t Higgins and his public ste dants and
his private stance as well, which has been emphatic. And
you know, we heard the cut from a pardon my
take where he outlined the different things that can get
done financially to make what he wants reality. What this
is really all about beyond simply winning, which is obviously

(12:19):
a big deal, and Joe's stated desire to win his way,
which is obviously very important, but on a big picture scale,
bring it back to five years ago. The concerns that
the Bengals would ruin or alienate, or mess up or
piss off Joe Burrow were not so much based on

(12:40):
the first couple of years. They were based on what
would happen once Joe was established, He's established, what happens next.
You and I have no idea, but a lot of
those takes that annoyed us five years ago will be regurgitated,
will be dug up, and we'll be thrown in our

(13:01):
faces if the Bengals and Joe Burrow don't get this
right together. Eighteen minutes after three o'clock five point three
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(13:23):
Good to Delta Dental, oh dot com. Chad Brendle on
the Bearcats coming up in twenty five minutes. Terrific night
last night for Dante Maddox, Xavier goes to Providence. The
Musketeers win a game that they're not going to get
credit for winning. We know how this works, but it
would have torpedoed their at large chances had they lost.

(13:43):
And so now they give themselves another chance to win
another game on Saturday against the Paul that they're not
going to be given any credit for winning, and that
will torpedo their season if they lose. Interesting game last night.
We'll spend some time on that a little bit later on.
Reds are going through their second pitchers and catchers work
out in Goodyear. I read something just a little bit

(14:07):
before the show that I think is hard to argue against.
We'll get to that coming up in the four o'clock hour.
And I hate to do this. I hate to do this.
I love college basketball and I love the NCAA Tournament,
and I want the NCAA to leave it alone. We're
probably gonna expand the field to seventy two or seventy

(14:28):
six teams, which we'll all get used to. Close to home.
Are some examples as to why that should not happen.
We'll do that coming up in the four o'clock hour
as well. Speaking of Joe Burrow, I want to know
who's the next Joe Burrow next? On ESPN fifteen thirty.
On this show, well, we record it and we put

(14:51):
it on the internet, and then you can download it.
You can listen to it again and again and again
and again, share it with your friends. They're called podcasts.
I call them reruns. Best of clips could work as well.
Brendan Soresby was Brendan Soresby was with us yesterday. The

(15:13):
UC quarterback was good. I was mediocre. He was good.
If you missed that conversation, if you missed anything we do,
if you missed yesterday's show, you can go get it
on the iHeartRadio app. You could also find that stuff
on my page at ESPN fifteen thirty dot com podcasts
or a service of Long Neck Sports Grill. If you're

(15:34):
thinking ahead of the weekend, and how could you not be,
I've been thinking about the weekend since Monday morning. Hang
out with your buddies at Long Necks. You got Wilder,
you got hebre and you got rich Wood. You've got
an awesome menu, four KTVs all over the joint, and
great beer selection as well. Long Neck Sports Girl, go
there now and maybe I'll see you there this weekend.
Chad Brendle in fifteen minutes on the Bearcats West Miller

(15:57):
talked today doesn't look like Connor Hickman's back anytime soon,
which I don't think is a huge surprise to anybody.
That and more with Chad coming up in just a
few minutes, you know, the Reds are starting spring training
and workouts are happening now, and there's a lot of
excitement and a lot of enthusiasm. And among the reasons

(16:19):
we're really enthusiastic is to see if Ellie de la
Cruz can make another major step forward, if he could
do what Bobby Witt did and go from a guy
who's just starting to harness his talent to like a
bona fide superstar, maybe an MVP caliber player. And if
that happens, the Reds chances of winning certainly increase. And

(16:39):
then also, what's the role of Terry Francona in Ellie's
development And not just you know, getting better obviously and
improving and honing his skills, sharpening out the rough edges,
but also and we've talked about this a lot, you know,
eliminating the dumb stuff that Ellie at times is guilty
of doing in the field, and maybe holding him more

(16:59):
accountab but when he you know, Butcher's a pretty easy player,
you know, runs the bases like he just learned how
to play the sport. And if those things happen, I
think we all agree that the raw talent gives him
a chance to truly be one of the very very
best players in this game, very best players in this sport.
And if that happens. We're just gonna kick in the

(17:19):
hyper drive the conversations about, well, can the Reds sign
Ellie de la Cruz, can they keep him here? Can
they keep them from being a Dodger? And I've said
all along and I'm not gonna move from this. I'm
just gonna assume that Ellie is gonna leave when he can.
The good news is that can't happen until after the
twenty twenty nine season. And so I think there's a real,

(17:44):
real premium on winning while you have him, and winning
while you have him winning, while you have Hunter Green winning,
while you have maybe a handful of other players. So
we've been talking a lot about Joe Burrow. I was
thinking about this today. I can't recall a Reds player
ever doing this. I can't really recall that many Bengals
players doing what they're doing to the extent that Joe

(18:04):
is doing what he's doing. But I certainly can't recall
that many Reds players. Jonathan India spoke up at the
end of the season this past season about what they
didn't do with the deadline in twenty twenty three. Jonathan
India is no longer here. What I what I hope

(18:26):
happens is that Elie Dela Cruz gets so good and
does so much individually that he gets to a point
where he can flex some muscles, just like Joe Burrow
is now. I certainly hope more than that that Ellie

(18:49):
Dela Cruz becomes a bona fide superstar, well rounded player
and the team wins with him. But one dynamic that
I think will be interesting is to see what will happen.
Like I've made the whole Ellie Dela Cruz conversation about
forget twenty thirty and beyond, just let's assume he's not

(19:11):
going to be here. Let's hope they take advantage of him.
Let's hope they do with Ellie what they couldn't do
with Joey Evado and win while they have a guy
of his stature, win while they have a guy of
his talent, and hopefully they do. If not, and if
we're assuming that he's not going to sign here a
long term, could Ellie get to a point or maybe

(19:35):
he starts to be vocal about what he wants to
see the Reds do. It's something Joey Vado never really
did either, by the way, and you might argue you
should have, and you also, I think, would argue successfully
that the team was never really in a place for
him to make much of a difference with what he's
had to say about the state of the roster and
players coming and going, that sort of thing. I want

(19:57):
to see a member of the Cincinnati Reds achieve so
much and be so good that they can put the
screws to the people who run the club when it's appropriate.
Joe Burrow has done that, and maybe the team will
do the right things, and maybe the team will do
what Joe wants them to do, and maybe the team
won't do what Joe wants them to do, and maybe
they'll still win, and then I think everybody will still

(20:19):
be happy. But like, I love this because it's it's
made I believe everybody uncomfortable down there what used to
be called Paul Brown Stadium. I want to see a
Reds player get to a point in their career that
they could do something similar. Let's face it, right now,
there's only a handful of guys who have the capability
of one day, not now, one day doing that. One

(20:40):
of them is Eli Dela Cruz three thirty on ESPN
fifteen thirty five point three seven four nine fifteen thirty
is our phone number. I'm gonna ask one of the
doctors from Ortho Sinsey to make us feel better about
Reht Louder. That is coming up in one hour headlines next,
ESPN fifteen thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty Sports headlines A service
than Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed

(21:04):
credit approval from their family to yours for life kelseyshev
dot com Red's manned official. They have signed reliever Scott
Barlow to a one year contract worth two and a
half million dollars. Team has a club option for twenty
twenty six that would pay him six point five mil.
To make room for him, Julian Agiar goes on the

(21:25):
sixty day injured list. Red's pitchers and catchers going through
a workout. Full squad reports on Saturday and the first
Cactus League games they play two split squad action a
week from Saturday, the twenty second of February. There's no
There are no new Joe Burrow quotes. We do have
a new cryptic message from T Higgins or a cryptic

(21:48):
post from T Higgins. This on his Instagram a quote
photo where t has on his excuse me Instagram the
quote quote, Priorities are rare, options are everywhere. You can

(22:09):
do whatever you want with that. Priorities are rare. Options
are everywhere. Maybe he's saying that you can only have
so many priorities and because of that, I'm not one
with the Bengals, but I'm gonna have a lot of options.
Who knows? Who knows? It's cryptic social media message season.

(22:32):
Wes Miller showed tonight at eight o'clock on seven hundred
WOW from the original Montgomery in Bearcat's getting set to
play Iowa State on Saturday. Xavier wins last night. Dante
Maddox was terrific off the bench. It was a weird
game where a shorthanded, very short handed Providence team jumped

(22:53):
out to a sixteen to five lead, and by the
time I got done reading all the tweets from people
trying to figure out where the game was on TV,
Xavier erase that deficit, built a lead up by twenty
six at one point, and then over the last ten
to fifteen minutes kind of stop playing and it didn't
get bad enough to make me feel like I think,
if you're we're watching last night, make you feel like

(23:15):
the game's outcome was really in doubt, but they do
figure out a way to win on the road. Mentioned
this before a game. They're not going to get a
lot of credit for this sort of game that would
have sunk in their season. And you know, look, they've
they've got to take care of business and all these
land mine games against teams like Butler and on Saturday
to Paul and then go and beat Creighton when the

(23:38):
Blue Jays come here. We wouldn't even be talking about
that had they taken the l last night. They go
on the road beat Providence and again we'll host to
Paul on Saturday. Your phone calls are welcome. Coming up
in the four o'clock hour five one, three, seven, four nine,
fifteen thirty. The UC Bearcats have won three straight. It's
a good time to talk to Chad Brundle. He joins

(23:58):
us next on ESPN fifteen thh You know, major paint
away from four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty on
my legger. Chad Rendel joins us on Thursday's Bearcadjournal dot com,
covering all things use in sports. On x at Chad Rendel.

(24:18):
How's it going.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
I'm good, hanging out of practice, you know, watch a
little basketball, having a delightful Thursday.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Now, are they actually practicing basketball or the dodgeballs out today?

Speaker 3 (24:30):
No, the basketballs are out today.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Okay, very good. If I would have told you last
Monday morning, when we were all still trying to process
what had happened the day before in the West Virginia game,
that this team would go three and ozero and offensively
undergo a significant makeover, be almost a one hundred and
eighty degree turn from what they were against West Virginia,

(24:53):
have three wins and go to Iowa stay with a
head of steam, you would have said, what.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
I don't believe you. I mean, you know, this is
what the offense was supposed to look like. So on
that front, I'm not shocked, but I you know, I
do wonder, like, why the heck did it take so
long to like get here, and why were there so many,

(25:22):
you know, obstacles in the road on the way. So
on that front, like, it's not shocking that they finally
figured it out, but it just seemed like it was
so far from reality. After what we watched through the
first ten games of conference play that. I mean, you know,
if you'd have told me they'd have scored eighty three
or more points in the next three games, I would

(25:44):
have laughed at you and asked you if what dispensary
you went to and if like you could give me
a tip.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Earlier in the season, Josh Reid was not playing at all,
and if he was, it was a minute or two.
And now he's not only playing significant minutes, he's playing
crunch time and he's making significant plays. Wes Miller has
said after both each of the last two games, Yeah,
these are really good games, the best of his career,
but they're not going to be the best of his career.

(26:16):
Is this a fun little two game outlier, or is
like Josh Reed a factor now?

Speaker 3 (26:24):
I mean, I don't know if this is, you know,
offensively what we can expect game over game going forward.
But he's doing It's it's more than just the points
that you know, have to have earned upped his minutes.
It's the ball doesn't stick like he's pretty decisive when

(26:45):
he gets it. He knows I'm open shoot it or
keep it moving. And that has been one of the
problems on offense that they've they've faced is they're they
you know when they when they were struggling, the ball
wouldn't necessarily like it wouldn't stick like you would you
would think of like, you know, it goes to a

(27:07):
ball dominant scorer, it would stick as in you catch
it and you you pause for a second or two
and then the defense recovers and by the time you
pass it. Every you know, whatever work you did to
move the defense is null and void because the defense
is back in position and loaded up on you to

(27:27):
to stop your action. And Josh has been kind of
a breath of fresh air along with CJ. Frederick that
they're decisive that they they they either get it and
make an action to score a basket or they get
it and they keep it moving so that the offense
stays functional. Uh. And on that regard, I think he's
a guy you have to play because he makes smart plays,

(27:50):
he rebounds, he defends, and now he's he's playing offensively
with some confidence. And you know, I've taken a lot
of heat. I said when Josh Reid was an incoming
freshman that my prediction for him that he would be
a thousand point scorer at the University of Cincinnati a
lot of heat on that.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
How far away.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
He's eight twelve away. So if they grant the five
for five, right like, next year will be his fourth
year and then he would have a fifth year after that,
we're finally moving in the right direction though.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
But I do think there's value in that. I think
there's always value. I used to love this, not I'm
not comparing the two. What I loved most about Gary
Clark was he never made a mistake. That he would
miss shots right, and sometimes a guy would beat him,
but he was never at a position you never there
were ever these like you know, low IQ things. I mean,

(28:47):
he didn't do things he couldn't do. Now was game expanded,
but like his first couple of years, he didn't take
shots he couldn't take. And I think there's such value
in that. And that's what I've seen from Josh. It
helps that he's making shots right, it's it's helped that
he's making plays. It helped that he made play a
big play in the defensive end late in the game
the other night. But I do think there's value in
a guy who just doesn't make a mistake. And again

(29:07):
that doesn't mean he's going to do something with the
basketball every time he has it. It doesn't mean he's
not going to get beat on defense like that stuff happens.
But there's value in a guy who's just not going
to screw up. Because at other times in the season
it felt like they had five guys who were at
times walking and running screw ups.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, they were all playing individually right, like there was
nothing connected about the offense when they were scoring forty
and forty eight and fifty two points. The other thing
that does give me a kick out out of where
Josh is at right now is you know the people
that say, you know, I can't get into college sports

(29:48):
anymore because nobody sticks around. Everybody's a transfer. You know,
you don't get to know these guys, you don't get
to watch them develop, And then you know, the next breath,
that guy hasn't helped out in a year and a half.
I get him in the hell out of town. You
get him in the transfer portal. Well, which one is it?

(30:08):
Do you want to watch the guy developed or do
you want to get his butt in the transfer portal?
It can't be both things. Josh is what people used
to claim that they love about college sports. A guy
that loves the university, works his butt off, is about
the right things that you know, if you remember last year,
he struggled to get on the floor last year too,

(30:28):
and what do I have to do to get on
the floor. You have to do you have to be trustworthy.
As John Newman's replacement as our defensive stopper. What did
Josh Reed do? He became John Newman's sub when John
needed a breather, They went to Josh Reed down the
stretch of last year, and then this year it's you know,

(30:49):
we need this role and now he's filling that role.
So and Josh Reed is also a kid. When I
met him, he was sixteen mo. And I interviewed him
and the first time I interviewed him, I walked away and, well,
there's a sixteen year old that's smarter than me. Not
that that's difficult, but it was very apparent in my
first conversation with him. He is much more intelligent than
I was.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
He's also a guy. You probably know this. On his
recruiting visit, West Miller took him to play golf.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Took him to play golf. He also took him he
wanted to major in geology and so they took him
to the geology department, and apparently they treated him like
a zoo animal because they had never had an athlete
interested in majoring in geology before.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
You speaking of players deciding whether or not to stay
or go, what about all these folks who will now
tell you they wanted Victor Lockin to stay at You
see all along after back to back twenty two point performances,
including eight blocks across two games against Duke and UNC
for Clemson, how.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Much do you believe that those are the same people
that booed him when he was here at Cincinnati a
year ago, Because I'm guessing those are one and the same, right,
Like they blew the kid out of the gym. He
couldn't even get off the bench to come to the
scores table and people would start doing and now why
didn't the coach keep him? I mean, it can be exhausting. Mo.

(32:17):
I'm really happy for vic very like you know, he
was a good kid here, never had an issue, played hard,
you know. But I think the thing that made like
that decision difficult in terms of, let's be honest, it's
a financial investment. Now. Fick struggled for three years in
February coming down the stretch, like because of the way

(32:40):
he played, how much he put his body on the
line when he was on the floor. Physically, he really
struggled at the end of seasons. And if you're looking
at that and thinking, we think this is an NCAA
tournament team, it's really hard to invest a lot of
money in a guy that you watched not be able
to finish strong over the three years that you coached him.

(33:02):
So kudos to Vic for so far, you know, turning
the corner on that and being able to be a
guy that you can count on in late January and February.
But you know, I think it had just run its
course here kind of unfortunately. And that stinks because I
just from a media standpoint, like be good or be interesting,

(33:24):
there was nobody more interesting than Vick Lockin when he
came in for an interview, right, and he came in
after Hawaii, remember with the lay on and the sunglasses,
like he was hilarious. But I'm happy for him. But
those people are lying to themselves because they were also
booing Vic out of town last year in February when
he was struggling.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Had they brought him back and had his return been
accompanied by this quote from the head coach, you know,
reflective of how they thought Vic was due for a
big season year five that you see it would have
been laughed at. It would have been laughed at. So
I'm happy that Vic is having success. I was skeptical
that it would work out at Clemson. I watched him

(34:05):
on Saturday, and I watched him again at USC and
then he was terrific, and he was terrific, specifically at
the rim On defense. It was big at a defense.
So the Bearcats have obviously made dramatic improvements on the
offensive end. We've seen that does do those things have
to come at the expense of what they're doing on
the defensive side of the floor, because now that area

(34:25):
has to get better.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
I don't think it has to come at the expense.
I do think MO. But we've talked about this a lot,
especially in this format that the Big twelve has forced
upon everyone this year with twenty league games in ten weeks,
where you don't get a bye week, you don't get
time to really work on stuff, like you're gonna be
better at the things that you're focusing on in the

(34:49):
limited amount of time you had to practice, and the
offense was so bad that they had to spend a
lot of time in practice getting the offense out of
their funk. I know you're not allowed to say the
the F word. Brad Schendall from the Topeka Times did
that last year after the Kansas game and Lawrence and
he got reprimanded. Uh, but you know, they they had

(35:14):
to work a lot on offense. The other thing though,
that you know, I've asked people that some have some
have think, you know, leaned in my direction. Others think
maybe I'm a little bit off on this one. But
I think this team is much better defending teams that
do a lot of their work off the dribble. They
have not to me, to my eye, they have not
been a team that defends well against teams that really

(35:37):
passed the ball. By u Utah's number and if Utah
doesn't have a great offense, but they're number one in
assistory on their made baskets, and I think that has
been a problem all season. The teams that have been
able to exploit this defense had been able to exploit
this defense moving the ball quickly via the pass and

(35:59):
making you know, making open threes or making open shots
As a result, I don't know that that's fixable in
the middle of the season, Like I just don't know,
you know, schematically or athletically. If this is a team
that's going to be great defending teams to pass it
really well, but they have to get a little bit

(36:21):
better than they have because let's be honest with ourselves,
the three teams that they beat, the three teams that
they put up big numbers on, were three of the
lower end teams in defense, and the big twelve. Over
these next seven games, the level of defense is going
to elevate. Scoring is going to be more difficult if
you're not going to get eighty five eighty eighty five

(36:43):
points a game against Iowa State, against West Virginia, against Houston,
you know, so you certainly can't let Iowa State score
eighty because they're not going to let you. So the
defense does have to tighten up here down the stretch, uh.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Really quick, because there's two things. Let's let's start there.
Do you and you reference the game and what they're
gonna have to do. Wes Miller, immediately after the Utah
game was already playing the No one's going to give
us a chance to win card. Are you giving them
a chance? And Aimes, be honest with me, Should I
give them a chance on Saturday?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Not? Really? Here's the thing. I need to see them
do it against a really good defense, agreed, Like you know,
our old buddy Marvin, I see better than I hear.
I need to see them against the top twenty five
level defense, and this is a top ten defense at
Iowa State. I need to see them do it against

(37:44):
a team of that caliber for me to go okay,
like they are definitely better, because look, they played BYU
and Utah and the offense stunk when they played them
on the road, and then they played them here in
the offense was great. Like, the offense has improved, but
has it improved enough to eat the upper crust of
this league? And until I see it, it's difficult to

(38:07):
just take that immediate leap of faith that because they've
played really well in these last three games that it's
just instantly going to translate. I will say Kansas State
the Iowa State by twenty in ames two weeks ago.
It was also the first game that Iowa State has
lost at home in seven hundred plus days, so going

(38:29):
in there to win is very difficult. But you know
what we you and I do have in our memory
bank mode a win in Ames. In our memory bank.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
We do an ugly game, but a win and AAMES.
I remember it well.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Got to win, got out of town with the dub
Just get on win by one and get on the
plane mod really quick.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Because because West talked about it today, are they gonna
stay moving forward with twenty league games in the Big twelve?

Speaker 3 (38:56):
No? I don't think there's any chance. It just doesn't
make any sense. Like I know, the idea is television inventory,
and if they did stay with twenty games, you'd have
to move two or three of them into December like
this January first, to the end of the regular season.

(39:19):
Squeezing twenty league games in a league this good is stupid.
I said it the day that it was announced. I
said it all summer, and now you're starting to hear
the narrative catch up with what I was talking about
is it's it's just it doesn't make sense. It's not
it's not feasible to these programs to have to do

(39:40):
this twice a week for ten consecutive weeks. It's too much.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
I would agree with that awesome stuff. Man, I kept
it longer than usual. Thank you as always, I appreciate
you having me moo.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
You have a great day. And are you in on Monday?

Speaker 2 (39:57):
I'm working on Monday. I may need to take next
Friday off. I will know tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Are you Are you preparing me for working for you
next Friday? Is that what's happening. I'm not conditioning.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
I'm not in charge of who does or doesn't fill in,
but I an off day next Friday may have to
happen for reasons that I don't care to get into,
but I would I but I will be here on Monday. Yes,
your your friend Mo. You then your friend MO likes
to work the winter holidays to use comp days when
it's warm ount So there you go.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
I will see you Monday, and if you need me
on Friday, just let me know.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Good stuff, Chad Brendle, thanks so much. Good bearcat journal
dot com. Follow Chad on Twitter at Bearcat Journal. UC
versus Iowa State in a game that an uphill battle
will put it to you that way. Four o'clock on
seven hundred w welw, it's four o'clock here on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station dollars. Enter this nationwide qword

(40:56):
on our website. Bank that's bank.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Enter it.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
There you go, it's a six after four. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. Am Leger, thank you so much for
joining us. That was good stuff from Chad Brendle. As always,
it's a massive test for UC on Saturday, a massive opportunity.

(41:22):
And you know, I think when the when the schedule
came out, if you knew anything about how the season
was likely to unfold, you looked at the schedule and said,
all right, there are a handful of games that I
give them almost no chance of winning, and the Iowa
State game would have been one of them. And you know, obviously, well,
I guess weirder things or bigger upsets have happened in

(41:44):
college basketball. Bigger upsets have happened. I guess in college
basketball this season. It is one of those games on Saturday.
You look at it and go, man, if they just
could have taken care of business in that game against
Utah and nough, that is not a very good Utah team,
not a very good Utah team, certainly on the defensive end.
That is that is a game the Bearcats and Salt
Lake City should have won, I contend, and they're playing

(42:06):
really well right now. I contend that the Kansas State
game is one that they that they they should have won.
I fear that this season is gonna end the way
the Bengals season did, or they go on a little
bit of a run here, and you know, I'm gonna
guess they lose Saturday, and I'm gonna guess they lose
against Houston, and you know, then they still have to

(42:27):
figure out a way to beat a Baylor team that
beat him by twenty five, to go to Morgantown and
beat a West Virginia team that beat him by fifteen points,
and beat a Kansas State team that beat them before
in the first game of the Big twelve season. But
my fear here is they're gonna go on a little
bit of a run and be just on the outside
looking in when the tournament bracket gets drawn up, and

(42:50):
we're gonna spend a lot of time, you know, talking
about what's next, and understandably so, but also looking back
and wondering what if, what if this game goes differently,
or what if this game goes differently, or maybe on
a more macro level, what would this team have accomplished.
Had the offensive makeover we have seen in mid February
taken a hold earlier in the season, What if it

(43:12):
had taken hold so early in the season that they
go to Villanova and win, or that they do beat
Kansas State, or they do win in Utah against Utah,
or they beat Texas Tech. Here I have this which
we did with the Bengals, right, I mean, immediately after
the Chiefs laid down in that last game and solidified
the fact that the Bengals weren't going to make the postseason,

(43:33):
we all went back and spent time on so many
different games. You know, the Patriots game game number one,
inexcusable to lose, How they lost the Kansas City game
on the pass interference call, How they lost both Baltimore games.
How they lost the Baltimore game on the two point
conversion where the flag didn't get thrown with the guy
grabbed Joe Burrow's face mask. Like a bunch of them,
a bunch of those games. And my fear is we're

(43:55):
going to do the same thing with the Bearcats at
the end of the year this season, obviously, there's still
lots of time to go. Seven regular season games in
the Big twelve tournament. That's my fear. I hate to
do this. I hate to do this. I think the
NCAA Tournament is as close as we have in sports
to perfection. I like the play in games, and they

(44:20):
don't like to call them play in games, but I
like the first four in Dayton. To me, I've said
this for years, and we've had the first four as
it stands right now, since twenty eleven. I believe we've
had the first the play in in Dayton since two
thousand and one. So these things have become mainstays of
the tournament. I think it's the perfect appetizer for the

(44:40):
main course that gets served up on noon of Thursday
of the NCUBLEA Tournament that first weekend. So I think
the closest thing we have to perfection is the sixty
eight tournament. The sixty eight team tournament bracket. It's the
perfect size, and you know, there's lots of room for
you to to lose games and still qualify. You could

(45:02):
still lose ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen regular season games and
qualify as an at large team in the NCAA Tournament.
Do you see Bearcats are gonna have to make it?
As an at large team barring winning the Big Twelve tournament,
and they've already got nine losses. Like the sixty eighteen
field is forgiving, but it's still exclusive enough. You See,

(45:25):
and Xavier are bubble teams, and I might be using
the word bubble pretty liberally here. I think neither would
make the field if the bracket was released today. I
haven't looked at bracket matrix today, but I feel pretty
comfortable in saying that there's obviously a movement and this
is probably gonna happen where they expand the field to
seventy two or seventy six, and we'll all live right. Well,

(45:48):
those of us who love college basketball will will still
love it just as much. Those of us who are
NCAA tournament junkies will still do what we do with
the field at sixty eight, which is what we did
when the field was sixty four. My argument against expanding
the field has been that we're not going to be
letting really really really really really really good mid major

(46:10):
teams in. We're really really really really good low major
teams in. We're gonna be letting in a bunch more
mediocre high major teams. We're going to be letting in
more teams that look like this year's you see in
Xavier teams. Now, if you're a Bearcat fan or if
you're a Xavier fan, he might be going, well, look,
anything that gets my team in. But as a college
basketball fan, I'm good. I feel like the bar is

(46:34):
pretty low to make the tournament, right as a high major,
if you're in a Power five league, I think that
bar is pretty low, and so look, I hope both
make it. It's more fun when both make it. That
would mean that both go on a run here over
the final couple weeks of the season, and then if
they both get in, we'll assess their chances in the
NCAA tournament. Wes Miller could obviously badly use a tournament berth,

(46:58):
And I think if Sean Miller's team got to the
tournament in a year where they've lost ten games before
Valentine's Day, that'd be a pretty cool accomplishment. These, though,
are not great teams, and there's not a huge national
fervor for these teams. We're just letting in more teams
that look like the two teams we have here in town.

(47:20):
And what you want, that's not what you want. Not
what you want for the event that determines your sports championship.
It would be one thing if you were letting in
more of the little guy. That's not gonna happen. It
hasn't happened with the field expanding to sixty eight. It's
not gonna happen with the field expanding to seventy two
or seventy six. We're not gonna be letting in more

(47:41):
of the little guy. We're gonna be letting in more
mediocre teams from really good leagues. And I'm sorry it
sounds harsh, but the profiles of each team are mediocre.
One's got nine losses, one's got ten. Both are gonna
finish with double digit losses, Both at best, middle of
the pack in their own league. They're okay, tournament deserving

(48:02):
in a field of sixty eight. We've come to accept
what that looks like. Do we want to accept what
that looks like if the field has expanded to seventy
two or seventy six and more teams like this one
are like these two are in I uh, I don't
think the answer is yes. Fourteen minutes after four o'clock,
five point three seven, four nine, fifteen thirty is our
phone number. We got the news this week Rhet Louder

(48:26):
is gonna have his throwing program delayed, and they're interesting. Now,
this is no big deal, no bit, and I believe it.
The MRI apparently showed no structural damage. But I still
want to talk about this with one of the experts
from ORTHOSINCI. And we'll also spend some time on Wade
Miley as well. Wade is trying to come back from

(48:47):
Tommy John surgery hybrid Tommy John surgery that he had
last May. He is aiming to return now with the
Reds in May of this year. Is that a realistic hope?
Is that a realistic time line will dive into that
as well? Speaking of the Reds, I was looking at
Fangrass today. One of my favorite writers, Danzienborski, does his

(49:10):
zips projections have the Reds that in seventy nine wins.
I don't care about that projection. I don't really care
that much about any projection. I think any that you
see is going to have the Reds in a range
that would not have him in the postseason. Baseball perspectives
had him at what seventy three and a half others
have had him at seventy eight. Danz has him at

(49:30):
seventy nine. Yeah, one is better than the other, but
none of those win totals will get them into the postseason.
But there's a part of what he wrote that stands
out to me more than anything. We'll spend some time
on that when we come back at Muger on Twitter.
Thanks to Delta Dental, lots to get to between now
and six o'clock on ESPN fifteen to thirty. Cincinnati Sports

(49:53):
Station for this is ESPN fifteen to thirty. Mueger, thank
you so much for joining us. Thrill, thrilled I say
that you were here. I want to thank the folks
at Turfway Park Racing and Gaming for having us yesterday.
You know, we take requests on this show, and I
said I was going to do this at three point

(50:13):
thirty three today and then I totally forgot, So I'm
going to do it now. I did the show yesterday
at Turfway Park Racing and Gaming, which was awesome, and
then as soon as I got done, I'll pull back
the curtain here just a little bit. I had to
leave instantly, like I even had a cousin of mine
came and was having a beer, and I'm like, dude,
I'd love to have one with you, but I had

(50:35):
to go pick up my daughter somewhere. My wife had
a dinner with friends and so had to get out
of there. Weather was rough, traffic was a mess, and
so I had to get to the West Side by
seven o'clock. So I didn't want to screw around, so
I left like I did the show, said goodbye and
bolted and on my way to my car, one of
my coworkers who was there texted me and she said, Hey,

(50:57):
there's a guy who came and he I wanted to
ask you a question. Are you still here? And I
wrote back and I said, I'm running to my car.
I got to go. I got to pick up my daughter.
Really really sorry, And she said, well, he wants to
know if you think the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday
were bush League for throwing bombs down field despite the

(51:21):
fact the game was over. I'm paraphrasing her, but I said,
I said it was very quick, and I'm like, wasn't
bush league at all? And then she wrote, thank you.
He was hoping he could get you to address it
on the air, and then I got to where I
needed to be and I wrote her and I said,
I will I will address this tomorrow. So because we

(51:44):
take requests, I'm addressing it now. The answer to the
question is no, the game was still ongoing. The Chiefs
were losing, whether it's patting stats, playing the game the
right way, giving a guy like Xavier Worthy of chance
for a two touchdown catch game in the Super Bowl.
Like a team's responsibility is to itself, a coach's responsibility

(52:09):
is to his team. So the players who are on
the field, I expect them to do what they can
for what their team thinks is best for their team,
and that that's scoring some points that makes the margin
of loss a little bit closer than so be it.
That said, if I was a Kansas City fan, I
would have been terrified watching Patrick Mahomes. Our franchise is

(52:35):
meal ticket on the field in the game when the
game is well decided. I wouldn't have had him in
the game in the fourth quarter at all. I almost
put this on social media and didn't put it out there.
It doesn't bother me at all that the players on
the field did what they did right. Like again, I

(52:55):
have no issue when a team runs up the score.
I have no issue when a team tries to score
when they're losing by a bunch like I think those
concerns are overblown. If you're on the field, in the game,
and the game is ongoing, I expect you to play it,
and I expect you to play it to the best
of your capabilities and do what you think is best

(53:16):
for you. I just if I was Andy Reid, I
would have said, at thirty one to nothing, screw this.
We are not winning this game, and so I don't
want to at the end of this season, screw up
next season. My team was getting beat at the point
of attack. Kansas City's offensive line not great. I don't
care if backups for the other team or in the game.

(53:37):
Some of those dudes would love nothing more than a
Patrick Mahomes sack late in the Super Bowl. Yeah, I'm
all right. So I had no issue with them throwing
passes downfield, Like it's one thing if they're winning by
a bunch of points. But even if they're winning by
a bunch of points, so what big deal? But the
team that's losing trying to make the game a little

(53:57):
bit closer, save some face, pad some stats no issue
with that at all. I just wouldn't have had those
guys in the game. Can you imagine just put yourself
in the shoes of a Kansas City fan, which maybe
you don't want to do this week. Your team's in
the Super Bowl, they're getting smoked, the game is over.
Mahomes is out there, he gets hit, he gets hurt,

(54:21):
and now you start the offseason by wondering if he's
going to be available for training camp. You might say, well,
you know, the odds of that happening aren't very high.
But can you imagine, Like I remember when the Bengals
lost the Super Bowl just a couple of years ago.
We all do right, and there were lots of things
in the immediate aftermath that we had to sift through,

(54:42):
and emotionally, there was a lot to work through, from
you know, being proud of the team to just being
grateful for the experience, to excitement for the future, but
also the concern of like man was that perhaps their
best chance. And then we you know, we revisited some
of the individual decisions. Running the ball right at Aaron Donald,

(55:02):
the play where Burrow misses chase downfield. That ends all
that stuff right on top of it all. Joe Burrow
limped off the field that night. Now, as it turned out,
he was okay, but he did limp off the field,
and I remember, amid all the other emotions, It's like,
is Joe okay? Like do I already have to start

(55:22):
worrying about his availability for camp or maybe even the
season in the immediate aftermath of them losing a Super Bowl?
And unfortunately he was okay, and you know it was
all right, But you imagine that your quarterback gets hurt,
not getting hurt in a Super Bowl. That stuff happens,
gets hurt in the fourth quarter of a Super Bowl

(55:44):
that has been long decided. So that's the issue I
would have had with Andy Reid I again, and he's
calling plays for what's best for his team. Patrick Mahomes
is doing what's best for his team while he's on
the field. I just don't think he should have been
on the field.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I got to it. We take requests, and I'm sorry
I do not know the gentleman's name. I should have asked,
thank you for coming to Turfway yesterday, and I'm sorry
I bolted and didn't get a chance to say hi.
I hope we're back at Turfway as soon, and if
we are coming out and see us, that'd be great.
Twenty five minutes after four o'clock. Fangrafs dot com is
a good website. Danzenborski is a very good writer. He

(56:24):
does ZIPS projections. Now, my take on Red's projections has
not changed. There are years where I find such projections
to be pretty useful, and there are years where I
don't find them to be, as it relates specifically to
the Reds, very useful at all. There are teams that
I think they're useful for, namely the ones that have

(56:46):
a lot of veteran players. But my take on projections
for a young team like the Reds is, how can
you do a projection when no, there aren't that many
guys with very long track records. A projection, to me
is based on a track record, So anyway he does.
He puts the Reds through his projection, which involves one
million simulations of the entire season in a computer, the

(57:10):
nuances of which are not worth getting into. The projected
standings for the National League Central, according to his model,
has the Reds winning seventy nine games, finishing in fourth
place now among the one million projections, the Reds win
the National League Central ten percent of the time, So

(57:30):
out of a million projections, they win the division basically
one hundred thousand times. Okay, they qualify as a wildcard
team twelve point eight percent of the time, so they
make the playoffs twenty three point six percent of the time,
close to one quarter basically two If it's a million

(57:51):
times two hundred and thirty six thousand times, they make
the postseason basically a twenty almost a twenty five percent chance.
They win the World Series zero point eight percent of
the time fangrafts dot com, So do what you want
with that, And again, I don't have as much use

(58:11):
for that as I would if the Reds had more
veteran players because the lack of track record of so
many guys. The blurb on the Reds reads the Reds
boast them upside, but they also have some serious depth
concerns and an uninspiring group on the offensive side of
the defensive spectrum. Huh does that mean they're uninspiring offensively

(58:35):
or defensively? Zips kind of likes the rotation but not
the plan B options after the projected starting five, and
it's a decidedly lukewarm. It's decidedly lukewarm about the bullpen.
There's a lot of value tied up in comparatively few
players Elie de la Cruz, Hunter Green, and a hopefully
healthy man McLain. So a couple of things about that
number one death concerns. I don't entirely disagree. They can't

(58:58):
be worse than last year and hopefully don't have the
injury issues they had last year. I am worried or
concerned or at least curious as to what this team
is going to be defensively, because they were atrocious last
season defensively, and it's not just errors and stuff you
can measure using raw numbers. It's thrown to the right base,

(59:21):
it's not giving away out. It's getting to balls where
if you don't get to it, it's a hit, not
an air. But they couldn't get to it. It's like
you had to have watched them last year, I think
to fully understand how bad they were defensively a year ago.
I do think the upside for the starting rotation is
what I'm most excited about seeing if they do achieve
that upside. But I also kind of feel like the

(59:42):
plan be options after the projected starting five for how
many teams would projections be excited about their plan bs
for their starting five. I think that's a little nitpicky.
I am a little bit less lukewarm about the than
I was last week because the Reds have made a
couple of pretty good acquisitions. Here's the part that's interesting

(01:00:07):
to me, the value tied up in comparatively few players
like I think you can make a case and ESPN
does this today that Elie Dela Cruz, Hunter Green, and
a healthy Matt McClain can be All Stars. I'll also
throw Tyler Stevenson, who had a nice year into the mix.
The problem is with everybody else, the unknowns outweigh the nones.

(01:00:32):
That's why I can't project them to win ninety games.
By the way, he's got the Cubs winning eighty six
and winning the division, so a relatively low number. I
can't project them to win ninety. But it's why I
really can't project them the win seventy or eighty. Now.
I hope you get to a point where the nones
outweigh the nones. But I think if you look at
the offense, if you look at what you know positionally

(01:00:55):
the everyday eight there's still way too many unknowns, and
it feels like right now, still a few too many
guys who have relatively low big league ceilings. Maybe that changes.
Four thirty. Your phone calls are coming up, So is
our expert from Orthocincion, Ret Louder, Wade Miley and more.

(01:01:18):
After headlines on ESPN fifteen five o'clock. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty on Moeger Sports Headlines and service of Kelsey
Chevrolet home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval
from their family to yours for life kelseyshev dot Com.
Reds have made the Scott Farlows signing official one year,
two point five million dollars with a club option for

(01:01:42):
twenty twenty six at six point five mil. Cincinnati also
putting Julian Agiar on the sixty day injured list. Reds
pictures and catchers going through workouts right now, getting set
for the report date for all the position players on
Saturday in the first Cactus League game a week from Saturday.

(01:02:05):
It's that time of week where we chat with one
of the experts from Orthosincey Orthopedics and sports Medicine. The
great thing about Orthosincy is they have specialists, locations and
services all over the Tri State. This includes walk in
orthopedic urgent care at five locations with extended evening and
weekend hours in Edgewood and Anderson. Learn more at Orthosincy

(01:02:28):
dot com. That's Orthos ci Ncy dot com. And remember
you never need an appointment at Orthos Sincy. I'm going
to Orthos Sincy in Highland Heights tomorrow to have my
neck look at Orthosincy dot com. Let's start by talking
Doctor Jonathan Slaughter is with us from Ortho Sinsey. Let's
start by talking about rat Louder, a promising young pitcher

(01:02:52):
taken by the Reds in the first round of the
twenty twenty three draft out of Wake Forest. Made his
major league debut late last season and was terrific, and
we're all excited to see what this year has in
store form. Unfortunately, h he's dealing with elbow soreness and
they insist, the Reds do that it's nothing crazy, but
they've cut back his throwing program. They have talked about

(01:03:13):
his MRI revealing no structural damage. So let's begin there.
When you're looking at the MRI looking at the results.
What are they looking for?

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Yeah, especially in an overhead thrower or baseball pitcher, the
first thing that your eye goes to is going to
be the inside of the elbow for the ligament that
we know as the Tommy John ligment or the ulnar
collateral ligament' the ligament that attaches the distal humorous to
the aulna, so two bones of the elbow joint that

(01:03:46):
sees almost all the force when we're throwing the ball overhead.
And so we're looking one, is there any tears, like
is the ligament completely attached or are you seeing some
fluid consistent with the tears that fully torn? And then
you start looking elsewhere about the elbow, looking at other
parts of bony structures, because sometimes you can start seeing
stress or inflammation in the bone that's consistent with laxity.

(01:04:10):
So if the unor collateral ligament is not doing its job,
whether it's injured, torn, or just just become lax you
start to see some inflammation in other areas of the
elbow in the bone because now you're getting abnormal motion
in the elbow joints. So you're looking for the ligaments,
you're looking for is there increased fluid in the joint?

(01:04:33):
Is there a different change in signal within the bone
that's concerning for stress or reaction.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
So what is the range of possibilities we're dealing with here,
and can you assure us that something like this doesn't
automatically mean worst case?

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
Yeah, So everybody goes there with this epidemic that some
people call the increase in Tommy John's of oh my gosh,
over through our elbow pain. Were done with this player
for a while. It is not definitive worst case scenario.
There are other things. Could just be a mild sprain.
It could be where you're overused it and allowed to

(01:05:14):
rest and then now the muscles are just strained and
tired or inflamed. It could be where you're getting actual
impingement of other structures that's not related to the ligament.
It could be just increased fluid and inflammation. So there's
many other things could be muscle, tendon, bone, ligament. So

(01:05:35):
it's not always just the dreaded Tommy John. There are
other things that you can deal with that aren't gonna
set you back a year plus.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Let's talk about a guy who is making his return
to Cincinnati. Wade Miley, who last year with Milwaukee, underwent
Tommy John surgery. He is not ready to pitch yet.
They are targeting mid May. He underwent hybrid surgery. I've
never heard of highbrid surgery. What is it?

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
That's a great question. It's a newer adaption to Tommy
John that was started decades ago that saved Tommy John's career.
But it's you take the traditional Tommy John, so you
reconstruct the ligament that is now non functional or insufficient,

(01:06:26):
and you create you basically do the Tommy John surgery,
but then you add or you modify what we call
an internal brace. So it's like a really thick suture
tape that's collagencoded and it creates almost like a brace
on the inside of the bone, connecting bone to bone,
protecting that new ligament that you just reconstructed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Okay, so that makes sense. He's thirty eight years old,
had the procedure back in May. They're targeting his return
this May. Number one, Does that seem feasible? Number two?
Are there potential complications with the fact that this guy
is as good as he has been over the course
of his career on the older scale?

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
So we'll say, yeah, as you get older, things do
take longer on average to kind of recover and heal.
One thing you can never speed up, no matter how
young you are, is the biology the healing you need
to get the ligament to heal into bone. Now, knowing
he had this kind of modified procedure with the internal brace,

(01:07:28):
that gives me much more confidence that he has a
good shot of returning in May. The whole thought of
adding this internal brace or the modified procedure is to
increase rehab time, increase return to throwing and pitching, because
now you've got extra protection to that ligament. You're not
speeding up the actual healing time, but you're protecting that

(01:07:50):
repair allowing you to rehab sooner it can. Even so
a typical Tommy John you're out twelve to fourteen months.
With this modified procedure, you're looking at potentially decreasing that
up to almost half the time. Well, it's newer, it
hasn't been done that long. But what we're seeing is

(01:08:13):
actual return even nine to ten up to twelve months,
so a quicker return than just a typical Tommy John.
And knowing he had had that would give me confidence
that there is a good chance he could return.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Doctor jonathan'slatter from Moorthos since he is with us, I
want to ask you about something that came up basically
two months ago. This offseason, Major League Baseball released its
findings based on a study that took over a year,
sixty two pages. I read all of them. Much of
it was above my head. But they did a study
into basically the root cause of so many pitching injuries,

(01:08:47):
and there are so many across every level of the sport.
And the ultimate takeaway was, yeah, Number one, guys are
throwing too hard, which I thought, yeah, no kidding. Number two,
guys don't care if they get hurt and have a
procedure like Timmy John surgery if they're throwing too hard.
I want to start with this. Are there techniques that
pictures can use to ensure they're achieving maximum velocity while

(01:09:11):
at the same time mitigating the risk that comes with it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
So a lot of these injuries are due to what
we call a kinetic chain everything that the injury actually
occurs from things upstream. So, for an elbow, if an
elbow gets injured, upstream from that is shoulder, and upstream
from that is actually your core So if you can
work on shoulder strengthening rate of motion techniques as well

(01:09:37):
as core strengthening and lower body strengthening, that can be
one of the biggest protectors to elbow. With that study,
it is it's this been pushing max effort, this constant,
non stop max effort every throw, How much velocity, how
much spin, how nasty can I get? Which is really

(01:10:00):
leading in my opinion, and what this study shows to
a lot of these injuries. But if you can focus
on working on upstream and the kinetic chaine shoulder and core,
that can lead to protection to your elbow.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
I think the thing for me that's maybe most troubling
is the almost sort of implied understanding that yeah, I'm
gonna have to have Tommy John surgery right like I
played high school baseball. I can't imagine just going, yeah,
you know what, I'm gonna have the surgery, No big deal?
Is that a I mean, look, you're you're a medical professional.

(01:10:36):
You do these procedures, so you know you've seen the
best of them. But is that false confidence in surgical
advancement in some ways?

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
Yeah, it's a great question, and we see it so
much and there's so much pressure put on these kids
because what they are graded on is numbers, and not
like eer or win loss. It is what is your veloscopy?
What is your spin rate? What is your vertical drop?
On these pitches? And to get there, kids are working

(01:11:06):
so there's no more off season. Kids are now going
from playing their season now to labs trying to develop.
How do I make this pitch faster? How do I
make it naster? How do I make it move or
drop more? So they're never letting their arms rest and
it's a max or max effort every time. It's not
necessarily imperents. How can I not only get good stuff,

(01:11:29):
good action, but also good placement to where I can
go deeper in a game. It's how can I get
everybody out as efficiently as possible, or not as efficiently,
but with my max stuff every pitch, which leads to this. Basically,
we're pushing our body past its limit of what it
can withhold and now we're seeing these injuries.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Awesome inside as always, thank you so much. I appreciate it. MO,
you got it, doctor Jonathan Slaughter. Ortho Sincy I say
this every single week because it's true. The great thing
about Ortho Sincy is. They have specialists in locations all
over the Tri State. This includes walkin orthopedic urgent care
weekdays nine eight to nine p and Saturdays nine eight

(01:12:13):
to one p at both Edgewood and Anderson. Let me
tell you something about Orthos Sincy. Okay, we're an Orthosincy family.
My daughter broke her foot, we went to Orthosincy. My
neck has been killing me. I'm going to Orthos Sincy tomorrow.
My wife busted up her ankle Saturday. Going to Orthos Sincy.
That's right. We are the poster people for Ortho Sincy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
You don't need an appointment. It's cheaper than going to
an er and it's definitely more convenient. Whenever you have
an urgent orthopedic injury, go to Orthosincy dot com. That's
Ortho ce i Ncy dot com. UH thirteen minutes away
from five o'clock on ESPN, fifteen thirty on moegor. Our
phone numbers are five one, three, seven four nine fifteen

(01:12:54):
thirty and eight sixty six seven oh two three, seven
seven six. I don't love going back in time. I'm
more of a look at life through the windshield and
not so much the rearview mirror. But we're gonna go
back in time. Coming up at five oh five on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Indy. The spotlight is
on the year. Connor Hickman now maybe perhaps out for

(01:13:17):
the year with that footage. Shoe West Miller talked about
that today. It's ten away from five o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm oegar. By the way. We did
a segment before. We responded to a listener's question from
Turfoy yesterday and I said we we take requests like
gentlemen here on email. Moe at ESPN fifteen thirty dot

(01:13:38):
com says we should take more and then and then
gave no request for me to take.

Speaker 5 (01:13:44):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Go ahead, Mike, He're on ESPN fifteen thirty. What's up?

Speaker 5 (01:13:49):
Thank you, moll date do yeah? Joining the show as usual?

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Are you?

Speaker 5 (01:13:57):
I wanted to talk a few reds, thanks teas, But
what I wanted to bring up was I'm looking at
this Big twelve now in depth. I think Texas Tech
is the team to beat in the Big in the
Big twelve. I don't think it's Houston. I don't think
it's Iowa State. I think it's Texas Tech for a
variety or reasons. Okay, Kape Towkins probably leading the league

(01:14:19):
in scoring, If not, he's close. Elijah Hawkins, I'm sure
leads the league and assists at six point five. And
every time I see them, they play good defense and
they rebound well. So I think that's the best team
in the Big Twelve, and I think that's the team
that'll go furthest in the Big Twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Yeah, I think there's validity to that. Top ten in
the country and offensive efficiency. I think top thirty five
or top forty in the country in defensive efficiency. They
run really good crisp stuff. We saw that when you
see played them. You know here the Red Raiders won
that game by ten points. They have lost to Iowa State.

(01:14:58):
I think, if I'm not mistaken, that was two point game,
maybe a one point game, but they have lost to
Iowa State. It is It is kind of interesting, you know. Arizona.
Arizona was really bad in the non conference relative to
preseason expectations. They lost a bunch of games to really
good teams. Since then, they have proven to be as
good as the preseason hype would suggest. Obviously, Houston is awesome.

(01:15:21):
I think it's a little different type of Houston team
than the brand, but they you know what you're gonna
get from Houston game in, game out. I think if
you were to ask most people who the best teams
in the Big Twelve are, they're gonna say Arizona They're
gonna say Houston. They're gonna say Iowa State. They're not
gonna say Texas Tech. And yet Texas Tech is a

(01:15:41):
better league record than Iowa State despite losing to them.
Scored one hundred and eleven points against Arizona State the
other night, which is not that big of a deal
because Arizona State's not very good, but if you watch them,
and again we had a chance to watch them up
close against Cincinnati, I think what's been interesting about them
is they've won low scoring games where they've had to
get stops, and they've won games where their offenses carried them.

(01:16:03):
And so I don't know that I would say they're
the team to beat, because I don't think you could
say that about any one team in the Big Twelve.
I think there's kind of a big four, and I
think the Red Raiders are in that group.

Speaker 5 (01:16:15):
Might do too, and unless something goes sideways with those guys,
even if they don't get as high as seed as
Houston or maybe even Arizona or Iowa State, that still
might be a nice doorcourse. The way I'm looking at
it now, regarding baseball, I've been talking to several friends

(01:16:36):
around the country that are in similar situations with their teams.
Not to delineate them all, but but I always end
up the conversation with, yeah, but you don't have Alli,
you don't have Alley, And they go, yeah, well, wait
a minute, I didn't think about that. Well, they probably did,

(01:16:56):
But that's the difference between the cutting edge of a
few of these teams. They are in the red situation.
They don't have that superstar.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Well they now, I don't. Aaron Judge is a superstar,
sho heey Otani is a superstar. Bobby, but Bobby Wit,
You're right, Bobby Wood Junior is a superstar. Ellie's not
there yet, But yeah, I think there. I think there
are a lot of teams who are where the reds are,

(01:17:30):
which is ascending or rebuilding, or at the very least
on the outside looking in and building around a young
corps who have neither Ellie Dela Cruz or Hunter Green,
and hopefully a few weeks into the season I will
start to include Matt McClain in that conversation. Again, I
think you're right about that now. I think with Ellie,

(01:17:53):
if we are still talking in a year about what
he can be, that that means the twenty twenty five
is a failure. I think we looked at last season
and said, you know what, first full season, he got
better statistically and otherwise he was better last year than
he was his first season. But Okay, what's what's next?

(01:18:13):
What does next look like? It doesn't have to look
like Aaron Judge or show Hey o Tani or Bobby
Wood Junior, but like, what's next has to be I think,
statistically and otherwise significan excuse me, significantly better than what
we saw from him last year.

Speaker 5 (01:18:29):
And I think what's really intriguing is Terry Francona has
had a few superstars that he coached himself over the years,
and that can do nothing but help Ellie. Because of
Terry's experience at dealing with young star players.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
I think it's fair to say I think it's fair
to say that if Ellie Daylor Cruz doesn't realize expectations
this year. It's not going to be because of his manager, right, Yeah.
It might be because there are just things that he
can for come. It might be that the league itself
makes an adjustment to him that he's not capable of
adjusting to whatever it is. I think it is very

(01:19:09):
reasonable to say that if Ellie daylor Cruz this season
doesn't improve upon what he did. And look, I mean,
the dude has played in less than three hundred big
league games. You know, we're still talking about somebody who
is who is developing, who is growing. He is still
just twenty three years old. But I think there's an expectation,
based on the raw talent and based on what we

(01:19:30):
have seen across his first first two hundred and fifty
two hundred and sixty games, that he takes a major,
major step forward. And much of that is statistical.

Speaker 5 (01:19:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
You would like to see him not lead the league strikeouts.
You would like to see him not lead the league
in stolen base or in cod stealings. I'd be more
than okay with him leading the league of stolen bases again.
You would like to see him hit for a slightly
higher average. You would like to see him raise that
ops up from eight to h nine. You want to
see it statistically, but I think also with that you
want to see you want fewer of those moments where

(01:20:01):
you go Ellie right, like when he tries to stretch
a single into a double and gets thrown out by
a thousand feet. There is a major difference between being
aggressive and being stupid on the bass pass. I felt
like Ellie and others, but Ellie crossed that line way
too often last year. Or the times he would get
picked off, or the times that in the third inning

(01:20:23):
he would make an astoundingly good play and then two
innings later bood routine ball hit right to him at shortstop,
or the amount of times you saw him last year
get caught maybe not paying attention or have his head
in the game. I want to see that stuff get
cleaned up. And if I get that and I get
statistical improvement that's easy to measure. I think, then we're

(01:20:44):
talking about a true bonafide superstar and potentially the key
cog to a playoff team.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
Yep, I couldn't have sounded up better myself, as you
usually always sum it up much better eloquently than I do.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Two more quick.

Speaker 5 (01:20:59):
Things is about baseball very quick. The uh now Tampa.
The word is Tampa's going to go to a six
man rotation because of the guys. Do you like the
idea of a six man rotation if you have the depth?

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
I do. I do, especially if that means you're going
to get more length out of the individual starters. Yeah. Yeah,
I think that's something the Red should actually have on
the table this year. If rtt Louder is healthy, if
he can start the season.

Speaker 5 (01:21:26):
I'm sorry, what does Tampa? What does the MLB do?
If Tampa gets into the playoffs in an eleven thousand
seat They're not gonna allow that. They're not going to
allow that. They're gonna have to go to Miami or
somewhere to play, which screws the fans in Tampa. But
what what that is a conundrum? Moh playing in eleven
thousand seat stadium if that team makes a playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Well, the A's my too, because the A's are playing
at a minor league park in Sacramento. I well, Tampa
has the better team and they're displaced because of a
you know, tragic thing that happened with their ballpark, and
the A's just simply moved. Mike, thank you. I don't
I don't know the answer to that. I I don't
know that Baseball would say we're going to move you

(01:22:08):
to Miami. I don't know. I don't know. I think
there's more of a likelihood that it happens with the
Rays where they got to figure out what to do
them in the postseason than the Sacramento A's. But I
hope the Sacramento A's never won another game for like
for the rest of their history. I am so pissed
off about what they did to Oakland. I hope they

(01:22:28):
go one s two five o'clock. ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
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Road and I seventy five.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
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Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
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Money that's money, money enter it now. Money camer Milwaukee Brewer,
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I'm awful the time management. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

(01:23:08):
I'm Owagar, thank you for listening today. I hope you're
having an awesome Thursday. Awesome, I said, awesome Thursday, A
great Thursday I have. I think today is the first
day and in a little while that we we haven't
had like a Joe Burrow or a tea. Well, we
do have a vague T Higgins tweet or I guess

(01:23:30):
some Instagram photo that will address a little bit later on,
but we there're no no Joe Burrow podcasts, no more
national media blitz, at least not for a while. So
so nothing there that is that has been a godsend
to us. I said this at the top of the show.
I am I have. I love this job. I have
my dream job. I am a lifelong Cincinnati sportsman, and

(01:23:53):
I get to talk about teams that I care about.
I know, I'm sort of going I'm trying to sound
like Lancey might argue, but I I love this job
and I love it When the teams win, it's it's great,
and I root for Cincinnati teams more than anything else.
But the thing I root for just after that is
for content, is for stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:24:13):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
The trademark of this show is be interesting and be good.
You gotta be one of the other You at least
got to be interesting. I'm a fan of interesting. I'm
a fan of content. I'm a fan of things to
talk about that can drive conversation. I don't look at
it as filling three hours. It's taking things that people
are talking about and using them as content and hopefully

(01:24:35):
executing a good broadcast around And so that's I'm a
fan of me. I'm a fan of well, I mean,
I'm not really a fan of me, but I am
a fan of having good and interesting things to discuss,
and Joe Burrow has given us over the last two
plus months a lot of good and interesting things to
discuss that we typically this is the time of year.
There are two dead periods in football. One is kind

(01:24:56):
of now and the other is you know, post post
mini camp June early July, before training camp start. Joe
Burrow has changed that entirely by his almost unending blitz
and statements about bringing back t Higgins, and he's gone
I think more and more into this with every bit

(01:25:17):
that we have heard. We played the pardon my Take
sound yesterday where he outlined how it can happen and
financially some of the things that would have to happen,
and he made a Philadelphia Eagles comparison. This is great.
Whether or not the Bengals do what Joe Burrow wants,
I have no idea, but this is one of the
most interesting dynamics in the NFL. I think that's inarguable.

(01:25:42):
Joe is probably gonna go radio silent for a while,
like he doesn't do his own podcast or anything like that,
So chances are we're not really gonna hear much from
Joe until the guys come back in April four offseason workouts,
and by then it's gonna be abundantly clear where t
Higgins is gonna play. It might be abundantly clear what

(01:26:03):
the deal with Trey Hendrickson's contract is, and maybe there'll
be some clarity with Jamar Chase's contract. Although I agree
with something that Paul Danner Junior put in a mailbag today,
I think the Jamar Chase thing goes for a while.
I don't think this is gonna be as easy as
pick up where we left off and go ahead and
get a deal done early. I think this is actually
gonna be one of the very last things that gets

(01:26:23):
done but one of the most interesting dynamics in the
entire NFL is gonna be if T Higgins is playing
somewhere else, if he signs somewhere else, what does Joe do?
But also what does he say? I mean, he has
been as unshy as one could be about a topic.

(01:26:44):
There's no gray area here, right, There's nothing vague about
what Joe wants. He has mentioned Mike Kasicki, and he
has started to talk more about Trey Hendrickson. But the
driver of this conversation is T Higgins. Tray's a little
bit different because he's under contract for twenty twenty five,
and Kasicki's a little bit different because the Bengals have

(01:27:05):
kind of cycled through these veteran tight ends who come
here on short term contracts. T is different. T came
to the Bengals the same year Joe did. T went
to the Super Bowl with Joe Burrow, Like the two
are forever linked. And so it's going to be fascinating
to see. And I, for one hope this isn't the case,

(01:27:25):
because I hope they get a deal with T done.
For me, at least, it's going to be remarkable to
see what Joe Burrow has to say when and if T.
Higgins is playing elsewhere, if he signs elsewhere, And again
he's left no room for debate. We know how he feels.

(01:27:47):
So if you don't get what you want and the
microphones are in front of you, my expectation is you're
gonna tell us how you feel. One thing about Joe
Burrow is he is. I think it's been rare since
he became a Bengal where he hasn't told us specifically
how he felt, and sometimes those answers are uncomfortable. We

(01:28:07):
had Joe Burrow on our show the day after he
got drafted, and you see, fans got mad at me
because I asked him like, dude, you know before you
went to LSU, you were on campus at Uce. Did
you come close to being an America? And he's like, no,
couldn't win championship there. Sorry, you might not have loved
the answer, but I appreciated the willingness to give me
an honest one. So I don't know. And again, like,

(01:28:31):
hopefully T. Higgins by the time Joe Burrow is back
in town, back with his teammates and they're going through workouts,
Hopefully Tea is a part of that. But if not,
what he says and how he handles it is going
to be fascinating, is gonna be one of the most
interesting things that will be I think one of the

(01:28:52):
most interesting player availability sessions in the history of Cincinnati sports.
That sounds extreme. Most player or coach or manager media
avails are nonsensical. They're usually a waste of time, te
signs elsewhere. Joe's first public comments not nonsensical. Must watch,
must listen. Speaking of Joe Burrow dropping stuff into our laps,

(01:29:19):
let's go back five years, five years ago, right now,
winner of twenty twenty. The Bengals have the number one
overall pick, which we knew who they were gonna take.
December twenty second, twenty nineteen is a low point in
Bengals history because I don't think more Bengals fans have
ever rooted against the team more than we did that day.

(01:29:41):
But it's also one of the great days in Bengals history.
Bengals lose despite trying to win against the Miami Dolphins.
They clinched the number one overall pick, and we knew
right then and there they were taking Joe Burrow. Six
days later, with all of us watching LSU versus Oklahoma.
He torches Oklahoma the College Football Playoff semi final, and

(01:30:02):
we're all on board, like, yep, that's my quarterback, if
that's the dude. And I remember going like, all right,
what are we going to talk about now? Like there's
no debate, there's no arguing, there's no like, they're gonna
take Joe, and they should take Joe. You know, maybe
somebody could try to spin it and be contrarian and say, well,
you know what they should do is take Chase Brown. No,

(01:30:23):
or what they should do is take the number one
pick and trade it. No, they're taking Joe Burrow and
they should take Joe Burrow. And then kind of right
when it was very clear to everybody what the Bengals
were gonna do and where Joe was gonna play, we
had something dropped into our lap. All the content about
Joe Burrow and the Bengals and all those folks who said, well,

(01:30:45):
if he goes to Cincinnati, they're going to ruin him.
Cincinnati is where quarterbacks go to die. Maybe he should
refuse to go there. Maybe he should tell them I'm
not playing for you. Much of this was based on nothing,
like he was always gonna play. He was always going
to get drafted and come here play immediately. There was
never a chance he was gonna pull his name out
of the draft or tell him I'm not signing with you,

(01:31:06):
so don't draft me. None of that. And they were
never gonna trade the pick. He was always going to
play for the Bengals in twenty twenty, which he did.
But that conjecture was not about at least I don't
think that conjecture was not about the first couple of years.
It was not about while Joe was trying to establish

(01:31:27):
himself as a bonafide starting quarterback in the NFL and
then a bonafide star quarterback in the NFL. It was
about what's gonna happen if we get into this for
enough time for Joe to have established himself, which he has.
What's gonna happen? If Joe is an established star. What's

(01:31:49):
gonna happen? If Joe has accomplished some some pretty cool
things individually, which he has. What's gonna happen? If the
Bengals have enjoyed some team success, which they have. But uh,
the two sides, Joe and the team are at odds
in regards to how the team should be built, what
the front office should do. What's gonna happen then, especially
if the results aren't great? Well, here we are now.

(01:32:14):
I don't know if Joe and the Bengals are at odds.
I know what Joe wants, I know what Duke Tobin
has said, and I know the conclusions that we've all
drawn about that. But what's gonna happen now? We might
not ever find out because a maybe the Bengals signed
to extend Tree, sin Gasiki and Joe is happy and

(01:32:35):
he's held accountable for whatever the results are moving forward.
Or maybe the Bengals don't do any of that, and
Joe takes what the Bengals have next season and they
win the Super Bowl and we all look back on
this offseason and laugh. Or maybe Joe doesn't get what
he wants. The team isn't very good next year again,

(01:32:57):
Joe is on the outside looking in despite some awesome
individual numbers. Then what happens The winter of twenty twenty
was not about the first couple of years. It was
always about, Look, this guy is got a very good
chance to be a really good quarterback in the NFL,
and it can happen in Cincinnati. But once that happens,

(01:33:18):
when he has some when he's got some gravitas, when
he can throw around his weight, when he's an established player,
when he has a good sense of how the league works,
once he's had a taste of success but hasn't won
a ring yet. Is there going to be a point
where Joe looks at the Bengals and goes, M man,
I don't know. I don't know that I can get

(01:33:41):
done here what I need to get done to really
truly be considered among the all time greats at my position.
Let's be honest. That's how he's going to be judged.
This is a dude who came into this league being
compared instantly to Tom Brady. Not that anybody thought he
was going to win six or seven Super Bowl titles,
but that's the guy he got compared to, and he's
forever going to be compared to Patrick Mahomes, who already

(01:34:02):
has three say which one about his performance on Sunday?
Dude's got three. There's a very good chance he's not
done winning super Bowl rings. So here we are. You know,
I mean not to say that Joe is going to
demand a trade tomorrow or in two months or in
a couple of weeks if Tea is not brought back here.
I don't think it's going to be that. But all

(01:34:24):
of that conjecture, that that narrative that we rolled our
eyes at, that we tried to throw cold water on,
it was all about will things Could things get to
a point that Joe looks at how the Bengals are
operating and starts to reassess whether or not he should
play here. Now you might go, that's cool, Joe's under

(01:34:47):
contract for the rest of the decade, and he is.
But well, do you really want to pissed off, unhappy, angry,
exasperated Joe Burrow setting the tone for this team? Do
you want him to play the entirety of his career here?

(01:35:09):
Do you want him starting to angle his way out?
Do you want him to not even entertain a third contract?
Like all that stuff sounds way off, It really isn't.
I mean, they'll probably start talking contract extension after like
twenty twenty seven. It feels like they've got two or
three years to get this done. I mean, it really
does kind of feel like two or three years. Carson

(01:35:29):
Palmer comparisons happen all the time Carson asked out, he
was drafted a three. He asked out after twenty ten.
So Kentucky Public High School counting here, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,
nine ten, that's eight seasons after eight years. Carson Palmer went,
how Cam done? All Right, We're not there yet, but

(01:35:50):
we will be in three years. And after three years
will only be two years left on that contract, and
that's probably right around when the Bengals are going to
want to start talking with him about a contract extension.
So these three years are immense, and what the Bengals
do with t Higgins is gonna have a direct impact
to what happens he's next three years. What they do
with Tria Hendrickson is gonna have a direct impact to

(01:36:12):
what happens these next three years. I do not believe,
regardless of what they do with the players, Joe wants
to return that you and I, understanding Joe's importance to
this franchise, understanding Joe's importance to this city, want to
be doing this. The twenty twenty seventh season has come

(01:36:32):
and gone and Joe still doesn't have a ring, and
now he's into his thirties. I don't think we want
to be there. That's what twenty twenty was all about.
What's gonna happen when this dude is pretty deep into
his career, has done some cool stuff individually, has gotten

(01:36:53):
his money, still doesn't have his ring. Especially if he
continues to play at a high level and the Bengals
can teae need to waste him. Then what we're there?
We are where everybody wondered about the Bengals being at
and Joe Burrow being at five years ago. None of
this guarantees that he's gonna be unhappy enough to demand

(01:37:13):
a trade, not re sign here. Look, at the end
of the day, winning will fix everything. Winning will fix
whatever hurt feelings there are if t doesn't sign, or
if they don't extend tray. But if he doesn't get
what he wants, if he doesn't get what he's so
obviously not just once, but it's kind of outlined how

(01:37:33):
it can happen. If he doesn't get that and they
don't win, then all of those takes from twenty twenty
will be dug up, regurgitated, thrown in our face. We
laughed at that stuff five years ago. I laughed at
that stuff five years ago. Now it's worth keeping in mind,

(01:37:56):
what's gonna happen if Joe does his part, plays at
a high level. The Bengals failed to win with him.
That was not something that was going to be a
big deal. Year three or year four. They were always
going to sign him to a second contract because the
dude was going to play well enough, The Bengals were
going to give him a contract, and the quarterback wasn't

(01:38:18):
going to turn down that money, especially with the guarantees involved.
Now was always about kind of the middle point of
that second deal. It was always about years six, seven,
and eight. The Bengals don't win during them. What do
you think the conversation about the Bengals quarterback is going
to be before year nine? I bet you. I know.

(01:38:41):
Let's hope we don't get there. Twenty three minutes out
to five o'clock. I am way late. We'll talk about
the Bearcats and their three game winning streak coming up
at five point forty on ESPN fifteen to thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. Brendon Soresby yesterday, I thought he was outstanding
and hopefully his outstanding on the field this fall. But
he was really good with it yesterday. If you missed it,

(01:39:01):
it's on the iHeartRadio app or and maybe both go
to my page at ESPN fifteen thirty dot com. Anything
you miss, anything you want to hear again, anything you
want to share with friends, you can do so on
the app. And it's a service of Long Neck Sports Grille,

(01:39:21):
which if you're like me and you're thinking about the weekend,
no better place to post up and have a cold
one watch some college hoops. The Saturday slate in college basketball,
by the way, is loaded around the country, including here locally.
For my money, you see and Iowa State. You'll hear
Chad Brendle and the Bearcats coming up in just about
fifteen minutes or so, Cincinnati. I think it's totally fair

(01:39:43):
to wonder this The offensive makeover they have undergone, if
that's the best way to put it, has really been striking.
They look different, they're more productive. They're playing a lot
like we thought they would play back in November. I
mean when we were talking about the collection of parts

(01:40:05):
they had, I think we were envisioning an up tempo
team that dunked a lot, ran a lot through a
lot of lobs, that maybe sacrificed a little on the
defensive end. That was maybe a little bit better of
a shooting team, and what we watched in mid December,
what we watched for pretty much all of January was

(01:40:27):
the antithesis of that. So it's great that we're seeing
it now. I think it's fair to wonder did things
have to bottom out the way they did with a
twenty five point loss to Baylor, twenty eight point loss
to BYU and whatever that was when they lost to
fifteen points to West Virginia eleven days ago? Like, why

(01:40:50):
did things have to bottom out the way they did
for things to turn around now? The turnaround is relative.
Part of it is that they're not playing very good
defensive teams. They've played some teams that offensively they can
can match up very well against. Iowa State is going
to be an entirely different animal. But you know, it's
it's one thing in Iowa State to see the outcome.

(01:41:11):
You don't want Do they play the way they have offensively?
Do they put pressure? And you know, you don't want
to get into an extraordinarily high possession game I guess
against Iowa State, but the way they were playing against
inferior opponents was not working. Don't change it now, Go
up tempo run, initiate the offense early, hopefully make shots

(01:41:34):
and ideally get some defensive stops. The makeover has been
pretty remarkable and it has possibly saved their season. But
I just can't help but wonder, and I think if
you're a UC fan, you're in the same headspace I
am right now. Why did things have to bottom out
before things got as good as they have? Five point three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty. More on that coming up in just about

(01:41:57):
ten minutes. Sports headlines, of which frankly there aren't next
geez Tony, stop yelling at me. Sports headlines are a
service of Kelsey Chevron Laoh, home of lifetime power train
protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours
for life. Kelseychev dot com Reds have made it official.

(01:42:17):
Reliever Scott Barlow has signed a one year contract worth
two and a half million bucks. He reportedly has there's
a buy in an option. My brain is not working,
hasn't worked at all this week. There's a club option
for twenty twenty six that six and a half million bucks.
Good luck to Scott. Julian Aggie argoes on the sixty

(01:42:38):
day injured list, bummer for him. As he tries to
come back from injury this year. Reds are working out
the pitchers and catchers and the position players who have
reported the first Cactus League games, two of them a
week from Saturday. I cannot wait. I cat Next Saturday.
There's a twelve o'clock UC basketball game, and the Reds

(01:42:58):
play on the radio at three o'clock. And I am
a sucker for those first few bars from the Golden
Throat of Tommy Thraw. What else do we have? The
West Miller Show is tonight at eight o'clock. That is
from the original Montgomery Inn on a seven hundred WLW.

(01:43:19):
By the way, I badly want this to happen. The
Jets have said see at Aaron Rodgers, and so everybody's wondering, well,
where where's he gonna go? Where's Aaron Rodgers gonna be?
First of all, probably going to some weird darkness retreat
and then maybe gonna go on Pat McAfee's show and
try to convince this that he is as interesting as
he thinks he is. And then is he gonna play

(01:43:39):
football next year? I haven't verified this. I have been told,
and it's not hard to look up that the Steelers
are one of the odds on favorites to sign Aaron Rodgers.
Please let that happen legitimately. Please please let that happen.

(01:44:00):
I'm more than okay with the Steelers bringing back Russell Wilson.
Aaron Rodgers is forty one years old. He'll be forty
two by the end of next season, and you could
look at his statistics with the New York Jets where
he threw threw for nearly thirty nine hundred yards and
twenty nine. Dude, please please please sign forty two year

(01:44:23):
old Aaron Rodgers. I'm sorry, forty one, not forty two yet.
Please do that. I hope that happens. I don't think
you know. I begged them. I begged Ben Roethlisberger to
keep coming back. Remember those last couple of years where
it was like, well, Ben says he's going to come back,

(01:44:44):
and it's like great, awesome. I badly Aaron Rodgers in
Western Pennsylvania I think would work out great awesome. Please
please put the franchise. Mike Tomlin's gonna put up with
Aaron Rodgers. They say what you want about Mike Tomlin.

(01:45:04):
You think that's a marriage that would work well? Please
Rooney family. Whatever you do this offseason, prioritize figuring out
a way to bring Aaron Rodgers to Pittsburgh. Let's go.
I did try to watch the Netflix stock and like, look,

(01:45:26):
Aaron Rodgers. Of every quarterback that I've ever watched, he
is the guy that has made the most throws that
made me drop my jaw like an incredible player, incredible.
Consider myself lucky to have seen him play like I mean,
among quarterbacks that I have watched as an adult, no
no player in the league has made more throws that

(01:45:46):
really made me go, how the hell did he get
the ball there? And he may be a delightful guy.
I just I don't think he is as interesting as
he thinks he is. But I tried to watch Enigma
on Netflix with an open mind, and fifteen minutes in

(01:46:08):
and by the way, I've seen clips from that that
I haven't seen with his teammates ex teammates who swear
by him, that's awesome. I just there are certain things
that a lot of people find interesting that I don't,
and vice versa. There's an example, But please Pittsburgh do
it soon to be forty two year old Aaron Rodgers.

(01:46:29):
That'll solve your quarterback issues. Please make it happen. You'll
hear my conversation with Chad Brendel on Bearcat's Basketball next.
My name is Kyle Taque, sixteen away from six. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Chad Brendel with his Bearcat Journal
dot com. If I would have said to you last
Monday morning and the aftermath of whatever that was when

(01:46:51):
UC played West Virginia that they would then reel off
three wins and be averaging in the high eighties, you
would have said, what, I don't believe you.

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
I mean, you know, this is what the offense was
supposed to look like. So on that front, I'm not shocked,
but I you know, I do wonder, like, why the
heck did it take so long to like get here,
and why were there so many, you know, obstacles in
the road on the way. So on that front, like

(01:47:26):
it's not shocking that they finally figured it out, but
it just seemed like it was so far from reality
after what we watched through the first ten games of
conference play that I mean, you know, if you'd have
told me they'd have scored eighty three or more points
in the next three games, I would have laughed at
you and asked you if what dispensary you went to

(01:47:47):
and if like you could give me a tip.

Speaker 2 (01:47:53):
Earlier in the season, Josh Reid was not playing at all,
and if he was, it was a minute or two.
And now he's not only playing significant minutes, he's playing
crunch time and he's making significant plays. Wes Miller has
said after both each of the last two games, Yeah,
these are really good games, the best of his career,
but they're not going to be the best of his career.

(01:48:16):
Is this a fun little two game outlier, or is
like Josh Reed a factor now?

Speaker 3 (01:48:23):
I mean, I don't know if this is, you know,
offensively what we can expect game over game going forward.
But he's doing It's it's more than just the points
that you know, have have earned upped his minutes. It's
the ball doesn't stick like. He's pretty decisive when he

(01:48:45):
gets it. He knows I'm open shoot it or keep
it moving. And that has been one of the problems
on offense that they've they've faced is that they're they
you know, when they when they were struggling, the ball
wouldn't necessarily like it wouldn't stick like you would you
would think of like you know, it goes to a

(01:49:06):
ball dominant scorer, it would stick as in, you catch
it and you you pause for a second or two
and then the defense recovers and by the time you
pass it, every you know, whatever work you did to
move the defense is null and void because the defense
is back in position and loaded up on you to

(01:49:27):
to stop your action. And Josh has been kind of
a breath of fresh air along with CJ. Frederick that
they're decisive that they they they either get it and
make an action to score a basket, or they get
it and they keep it moving so that the offense
stays functional. Uh. And on that regard, I think he's
a guy you have to play because he makes smart plays,

(01:49:50):
he rebounds, he defends, and now he's he's playing offensively
with some confidence. And you know, I've taken a lot
of heat. I said when Josh Reid was an incoming
freshman that my prediction for him that he would be
a thousand point scorer at the University of Cincinnati. A
lot of heat on that. How far away from he's

(01:50:11):
eight twelve away. So if they grant the five for
five right like next year, will be his fourth year
and then he would have a fifth year after that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
We're finally moving in the right direction, though, But I
do think there's value in that. I think there's always value.
I used to love this, not I'm not comparing the two.
What I loved most about Gary Clark was he never
made a mistake. That he would miss shots right, and
sometimes a guy would beat him, but he was never
out of position. You never there were ever these like

(01:50:45):
you know, low IQ things. I mean, he didn't do
things he couldn't do. Now was game expanded, but like
his first couple of years, he didn't take shots he
couldn't take. And I think there's such value in that.
And that's what I've seen from Josh. It helps that
he's making shots right, it's it's helped that he's making plays.
It helped that he made play a big play in
the defensive end late in the game the other night.
But I do think there's value in a guy who

(01:51:05):
just doesn't make a mistake. And again, that doesn't mean
he's going to do something with the basketball every time
he has it. It doesn't mean he's not going to
get beat on defense like that stuff happens, but there's
value in a guy who's just not going to screw up,
because at other times in the season it felt like
they had five guys who were at times walking and
running screw ups.

Speaker 3 (01:51:27):
Yeah, they were all playing individually right, like there was
nothing connected about the offense when they were scoring forty
and forty eight and fifty two points. The other thing
that does give me a kick out of out of
where Josh is at right now is you know the
people that say, you know, I can't get into college

(01:51:47):
sports anymore because nobody sticks around. Everybody's a transfer. You know,
you don't get to know these guys, you don't get
to watch them develop, and then you know the next breath,
that guy hasn't helped out in a year and a half.
I get him in the hell out of town. You
get him in the transfer portal. Well, which one is it?

(01:52:08):
Do you want to watch the guy developed or do
you want to get his butt in the transfer portal?
It can't be both things. Josh is what people used
to claim that they love about college sports. A guy
that loves the universe, that he works his butt off
is about the right things that you know, if you
remember last year he struggled to get on the floor
last year too, and what do I have to do

(01:52:30):
to get on the floor. You have to do you
have to be trustworthy as John Newman's replacement as our
defensive stopper. What did Josh Reed do? He became John
Newman's sub when John needed a breather, They went to
Josh Reed down the stretch of last year, and then
this year it's you know, we need this role, and
now he's filling that role. So and Josh Reid is

(01:52:54):
also a kid. When I met him, he was sixteen mo.
And I interviewed him. And the first time I interviewed him,
I walked away and went up there, here's a sixteen
year old that's smarter than me. Not that that's difficult,
but it was very apparent in my first conversation with him.

Speaker 2 (01:53:06):
Is much more intelligent than I was. He's also a guy.
You probably know this. On his recruiting visit, West Miller
took him to play golf, took him.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
To play golf. He also took him he wanted to
major in geology, and so they took him to the
geology department and apparently they treated him like a zoo
animal because they had never had an athlete interested in
majoring in geology before.

Speaker 2 (01:53:34):
Speaking of players deciding whether or not to stay or go,
what about all these folks who will now tell you
they wanted Victor Lockin to stay. You see, all long
after back to back twenty two point performances, including eight
blocks across two games against Duke and UNC for Clemson.

Speaker 3 (01:53:51):
How much do you believe that those are the same
people that booed him when he was here at Cincinnati
a year ago, Because I'm guessing those are one and
the same, right, Like they blew the kid out of
the gym. He couldn't even get off the bench to
come to the scorers table and people would start doing
and now why didn't the coach keep him? I mean,

(01:54:15):
it can be exhausting, mo. I'm really happy for vic
very Like, you know, he was a good kid here,
never had an issue, played hard, you know, But I
think the thing that made like that decision difficult in
terms of, let's be honest, it's a financial investment. Now,
fix struggled for three years in February coming down the stretch,

(01:54:38):
like because of the way he played, how much he
put his body on the line when he was on
the floor physically. He really struggled at the end of seasons.
And if you're looking at that and thinking, we think
this is an NCAA tournament team, it's really hard to
invest a lot of money in a guy that you
watched not be able to finish strong over the three

(01:55:00):
years that you coached him. So kudos to Vic for
so far, you know, turning the corner on that and
being able to be a guy that you can count
on in late January and February. But you know, I
think it had just run its course here kind of unfortunately.
And that stinks because I just from a media standpoint,

(01:55:22):
like be good or be interesting, there was nobody more
interesting than Vick lock In when he came in for
an interview, right and he came in after Hawaii, remember
with the lay on and the sunglasses, like he was hilarious.
But I'm happy for him. But those people are lying
to themselves because they were also booing Vic out of
town last year in February when he was struggling.

Speaker 2 (01:55:43):
Uh, really quick, because there's two things. Let's let's start there.
Do you and you reference the game and what they're
gonna have to do. Wes Miller immediately after the Utah game,
was already playing the no one's going to give us
a chance to win?

Speaker 3 (01:55:55):
Card?

Speaker 2 (01:55:55):
Are you giving them a chance? And Aimes, be honest
with me, Should I give them a chance on SAT?

Speaker 3 (01:56:04):
Not? Really? Here's the thing. I need to see them
do it against a really good defense, agreed, Like you know,
our old buddy Marvin, I see better than I hear.
I need to see them against the top twenty five
level defense, and this is a top ten defense at
Iowa State. I need to see them do it against

(01:56:27):
a team of that caliber for me to go okay,
like they are definitely better, because look, they played BYU
and Utah and the offense stunk when they played them
on the road, and then they played them here in
the offense was great. Like, the offense has improved, but
has it improved enough to beat the upper crust of
this league? And until I see it, it's difficult to

(01:56:51):
just take that immediate leap of faith that because they've
played really well in these last three games that it's
just instantly going to translate. I will say Kansas State
the Iowa State by twenty in ames two weeks ago.
It was also the first game that Iowa State is
lost at home in seven hundred plus days, so going

(01:57:12):
in there to win is very difficult. But you know
what we you and I do have in our memory.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
Bank mode.

Speaker 3 (01:57:19):
A win in Ames. In our memory bank.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
We do an ugly game, but a win and AAMES.

Speaker 3 (01:57:24):
I remember it well, got a win, got out of
town with the dub that did. Just get on win
by one and get on the plane mod really quick.

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
Because because West talked about it today, are they gonna
stay moving forward with twenty league games in the Big twelve?

Speaker 3 (01:57:40):
No, I don't think there's any chance. It just doesn't
make any sense. Like I know, the idea is television inventory,
and if they did stay with twenty games, du'de have
to move two or three of them into December, like
this January first, to the end of the regular season.

(01:58:02):
Squeezing twenty league games in a league this good is stupid.
I said it the day that it was announced. I
said it all summer, and now you're starting to hear
the narrative catch up with what I was talking about.
Is it's just it doesn't make sense. It's not feasible
to these programs to have to do this twice a

(01:58:25):
week for ten consecutive weeks. It's too much.

Speaker 2 (01:58:30):
I would agree with that. Awesome stuff. Man, I kept
it longer than usual. Thank you as always.

Speaker 3 (01:58:34):
Thanks Bo.

Speaker 2 (01:58:35):
There you go. Chad Brendel Bearted Journal dot com. You
see in Iowa State Saturday. At four o'clock tomorrow we
have Nky Bracket Guy on the show. I'm looking forward
to that. That is well overdue. We are done. Thanks
to Tarren Bland for producing. Thanks to you for listening.
Have a great night. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati

(01:58:55):
sports station

Speaker 3 (01:59:00):
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