April 16, 2025 • 16 mins
Nick Baumgartner is an NFL Draft analyst for The Athletic. He joined us on ESPN1530 to discuss some Bengals draft possibilies, his mock draft, and more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's sports station Sports headlines a service
of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime power train protection and
guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life
Kelsey chef dot Comrades and Mariners again Tonight at GABP
Nick Martinez and Bryce Miller six forty tonight seven hundred.
Wlw's starting line at this evening Freedol McLain, Dela Cruz
(00:24):
Hayes and left field Gavin Lux playing third base, Spencer
Steer back in the line of dhing Cees at first,
Freelien right, and Jose Travigno is behind the plate. This
was a very sad news to wake up to. Aaron Bupenza,
who played in twenty twenty three in twenty twenty four
for FC Cincinnati, has died. He fell from the eleventh
(00:48):
story of a building in China that he was living in.
Bupenza had a kind of a weird stay in Cincinnati,
a controversial stay in Cincinnati. Played in twenty four games
for FC Cincinnati in the twenty twenty three and twenty
twenty four seasons. Connor Hickman leaving UC to go to
(01:10):
Charleston Chances are you saw that if you're a Bearcat fan,
Dan Skilling is gonna be a Baylor Bear And we
saw yesterday Josh Reed is off to Penn State. The
NFL Draft is one week from tomorrow. Starts one week
from tomorrow. Nick bomb Gardner is an NFL draft analyst
fourth The Athletic. I've tweeted out a link to his
latest mock draft. I appreciate the time you have and
(01:32):
this is interesting to me. This caught my eye not
so much because of the player of the Bengals you
have the Bengals taking, but the guy you have them
not taking, who then went eighteen overall in your mock draft.
So let's start with that. You have him taking Mike
Green from Marshall and not Tyler Booker from Alabama. Why
Green and not Booker?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I mean, honestly, I think you could go either or
you know, I went Mike Green on that one, you know, because,
like we said, it's the situation with it's Hendrickson or
nobody in terms of pass rush there for the most
part in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So that was my sort of tie break.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
But like you said, he's a really complicated, sort of
evaluation for a lot of off the field you know,
concerns and all that sort of thing. Teams are really
going to have to do their homework there. But you
know you mentioned it. I mean, Tyler Booker would be
a terrific pick there, I feel like, I mean, we've
talked a lot over the years about Cincinnati trying to
fortify things up front, not just for you know, pass
(02:27):
protection purposes, but for also, you know, to give Burrow
a run game that can also protect him. I feel
like Cincinnati's run game if it could, you know, develop
a little more for a little more you know, beef
in there, which is all Booker really is at this point.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I mean, he's the.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Most physical, probably the most physical offensive lineman. I would
argue maybe in the draft tackle or guard a guy
who you know, I like as a fit for a
lot of teams, and I'm not sure how long he'll
be around. By frankly, I think that that would be
perfectly fine for him to be gone there where Cincinnati
is that. I think I did end up giving him
to Seattle right after there, So yeah, I mean, I
(03:02):
think Booker is a guy who can come in right
away and make an impact in the run game and
be a guy who probably even helps you know the
guy next to him, and that in that standpoint as well.
But I think the one question with a lot of
people have.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
With him is he's a little slow footed.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I think that that's been you know, you get a
big range on him in terms of some people like
him a lot, even a little bit higher on their board,
some people like him a little bit lower. Uh big
based on you know, what he can can or can't
do in terms of passpro But for Cincinnati, absolutely, I
think that pass rush or a guard or you know,
or offensive line in general, but in this case, it
would probably be a guard because I'm not sure about
(03:37):
to tackle there. But I think those are the two
that I looked at the most, either edge or somebody inside,
and I think it was either or on that's on
that stands.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Let's talk about Mike Green specifically, and I guess the
position of edge rusher specifically, and Mike Green's off field
concerns character issues are well documented. Our audience can can
go do their own research on that if if if
they're not up to speed on on what he's connected
to in Cincinnati. It wasn't that long ago where the
Bengals were like the team that you thought, if they're
(04:06):
going to take a chance on a guy with character issues,
it's the Bengals. And they've gotten away from that. And
I don't think that their success over the last couple
of years. I don't think it's a coincidence that they,
for the most part, have drafted guys with very few
character issues. So I look at what this guy has
hanging over him, and then I read the consensus, which
is edge is deep, and I ask myself, why do
(04:28):
I want to Why do I want to use a
first round pick that they've got a nail on Mike
Green when he plays a position that's pretty deep in
this draft? Can you address that for me?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So I think that it is a deep edge class.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
But I would also argue that, you know, Mike Green
is the type of guy that if you if you
if he clears your sort of you know, background protocol,
and he is a really comp and yeah, I mean,
people really got to read that for themselves. It's a
lot of stuff, and you know, he denies all of
it and firmly denies all of it and talked about
you know, the two accusations and everything that went on
he talked about that stuff more than I've ever heard
anybody at the combine talk of out you know, on
(05:01):
off the field thing. Usually it's I'm not going to
talk about it, or it's a canned answer or.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
What have you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
But he, I mean, it was in pretty serious detail
about the stuff that he talked about there at the podium.
So we'll see, we'll see what all happens there. But
I think with him, you know, if all of that checks,
he's the type of guy that athletically, physically, all the stuff,
is probably a top twelve player in this class. And
I think that that's the difference in there's depth here. Yes,
(05:26):
you can get a guy like JT. Tueam Molau from
Ohio State there in the second or third round. He'd
be a really nice player for a lot of teams
who would help people do a lot. Nick Scouerton kid
from text fan them, same kind of deal. A guy
who could help and really be a good player, a
nice player. But I think Green is the type of
guy that if you're looking for value, if he slides
down the board and you're okay with everything that you're
(05:48):
getting from him, then he could be a you know,
a star level difference maker, a guy who's you know,
really really difficult to deal with off the edge in
terms of athleticism, bend, power, everything else. Also a guy
who can drop and cover. And I really think in time,
you know, he needs to be tested probably on a
higher level. Was really dominant at the at the level
there at Marshall, but in time, I think he has
(06:10):
the similar kind of build that we talk about with
that duel Carter, Jalen Walker, the Michael Parsons, you know
position a guy that can move all over the place
to be stand up over a guard, drop and cover,
playing a stack, anything that you need him to do.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
He's just a really really off the charts.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Level athlete, especially when stacked up to the rest of
the guys in this class. So it's a good edged class.
But I don't know if it's like, you know, so
deep that you're gonna get stars or guys that can
be you know, three down, you know, weapons, so to speak.
And I think Green absolutely is still in that bucket
at the top there, you know, with that duel Carter,
samar Stewart and Michael Williams.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Probably all right, you used the name that I was
going to bring up because there was a mob draft
that you were a part of in early March and
you had the Bengals taking Gihad Campbell and that's that's
a name that we have talked about a ton. Here
in the synopsis of the pick, you describe him as
a Micah Parsons like wild card. That made my eyebrows.
That raised my eyebrows. So yeah, if I can get
(07:08):
Micah Parsons light, sign me up for that dive into
that evaluation for me.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
The thing with Campbell, the one thing with him is
he's still pretty young, and I think that there's some
you know, questions about how ready he is to do
everything that they're that you could possibly ask him to do.
I think it would need to be a little slower
on the take there with everything that he could expand
out to. But you know, six two six three, two
hundred and forty pounds was a four or five guy,
terrific burst everything else, like test it off the charts,
(07:35):
and if you watch him in Alabama, you know they
did expand his role from you know, just playing in
the box this year to getting up on the line,
putting his hand down and you know, getting atter the
quarterback and he is I think a guy who hasn't
even come close to scratching the surface of what he
can do. I think he's physically has a chance to
be more impressive than you know. Jalen Walker's the guy
(07:56):
I think a lot of people have pointed to as
the best player in that in that bucket of you know,
the linebacker who can also come down and play edge
and move around and do all the different stuff. It's
really kind of a hybrid front seven defender. But I
think in time, Johad Campbell is more He's more physically impressive,
and I think in time he could be the better player.
It's just a matter of you know, what you get
from him, if he stays healthy, if your coaching staff
(08:18):
can you know, work him up, and all those sorts
of things. But he has got all the versatility that
you're looking for. And I think that is really the
next wave of trend or what are you want to
call it in defensive football, is that you know the
guy up front who you don't know what he's doing.
If you're an offensive you know coordinator, or if you're an
offensive line coach, you don't know where he's coming from
on a snap to staff basis. We see this a
(08:39):
lot in college, and we have over the last few years,
several years really where you see those safeties come down
and they.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Play all over the box.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
But now we're starting to see defensive ends, you know,
walk back and play all over the place as well.
And I think that it's when you have a guy
like John Campbell, similar to Abdul Carter, who sort of
started out as an inside linebacker and then added the
pass rush on top of it. That was what Michael's
path was as well. You really have kind of a
positionless weapon who, if he embraces the role and can
(09:06):
handle it mentally, can be just a complete game changer.
And I think that that's what we've seen. You know,
Mike had really changed that, you know, almost created a
position by himself, and I think we've seen college teams,
especially over the last few years, try to develop guys
into that same role, and I think that's now hitting
the NFL. And John Campill's probably the rawest of that bunch,
but also in time could be maybe the best in
(09:27):
this year's class. So really really like him a lot,
and I think he's another one that's gonna have That's
what this class is all about the wide ranges on guys.
You're gonna have teams that really like him a lot
and teams that are like, well, we don't.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Know about for our situation.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So it's really about what you know, how comfortable you
are with You might need to take a little bit
of time with him, but the payoff could be really
really big. And you know, I still think he could
give you stuff right away. I don't think it's gonna
be something where he's just a you can't play him
or anything. I think you can definitely play him. It's
just a matter of is he going to max all
the way out as quickly as maybe another guy would
in this class. I don't know, but you know, the
(09:58):
long term payoff could be really good.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
With Nick bomb Gardner, NFL draft analysts for the Athletic,
with this for another couple of minutes. This team here
is is interesting because if you look at their draft needs,
there's a thousand of them right It's like every every
positional group on defense plus offensive line. If you just
look at that, and I'm sure that graphic will be
up on the screen on draft night, it looks like
(10:20):
a team that's coming off a four win season, it's
looked like it looks like a team that's like in
the middle of a rebuild, not one with bona fide
Super Bowl aspirations. But the hope here is they can
break through and win one in twenty twenty five. So
understanding their needs and understanding the urgency to get players
who could help right away, and understanding this draft class
the way you do at which position can they least
(10:41):
afford the way to pick a player.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Oh, that's a good question. I think that.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You know, for me, when I look at this board
the cornerback position, there's gonna be guys later, but there
could be some guys that fall here, you know that
are like Will Johnson. I don't know where Will Johnson's
going to go. And when we started the year, you know,
evaluating these guys back in the summer, a lot of
people you talk to head Will Johnson as the top
(11:06):
five player in this class. I Dane had him. Dan
Brugli Heer at the Athletic had at number one. I
think when the when the year start, right behind Hunter
might have been number two. Matter of fact, So you
know that's the type of player you're getting. But he's
falling because he hasn't tested. He was, he had a handstring,
he sat out the whole year. I don't think his
injuries that serious. I just don't think he I don't.
I don't think he wanted to play on a bad
team and it'd further expose himself anymore. Which is also
(11:30):
something that people have to, you know, get to know
him and all that sort of stuff. But when you
put the twenty twenty three tape on with him, it
was elite.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I mean he was the best.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
He was arguably the best player on that defense. And
that defense included Mason Graham. So I mean, this is
a phenomenal player. If he slides down the board and
you're Cincinnati and you say, hey, you know we need
everything on defense, you know that could be run right there,
because I do think, like you said, defensive tackle is
the defense group in the class. There are good edges
that you could find later. This is also a really
good safety class. And you know, I think this is
(12:00):
a better than normal linebacker plastic cornerbacks to me, for
the premium level talent, I think that you might want
to attack that earlier, and for a team like Cincinnati
who needs a lot of stuff. But like you said
to have the benefit of having an elite quarterback with
elite playmakers on offense. That can kind of get you
a lot of things. You don't need to have everything
right away. You're just trying to find the best player available.
(12:20):
So I think you could sit there and wait a
little bit and see if somebody falls to you at
a spotlight corner where all of a sudden, you know,
down there in the late teens, I'm getting a guy
that could be a top ten talent. You know, that's
the type of position I think that that could happen at.
You know, I don't know where Will is going to go.
I don't know where Johnny Barron is going to go either.
You know, the kid from Texas is also a phenomenal player.
There's not a lot of teams that need that. You
(12:40):
know that right now in front of in the top
fifteen whatever it is, So you could end up getting
a really good value there if he slides and falls
and you want to take a stab there.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Elaborate on something you just said for me, and then
I'll let you run. You know, what they're doing in
the secondary is interesting because there are a lot of
guys at corner that they've used early round draft choices
on that they haven't really gotten a lot out of,
and obviously a new defensive coordinator, Al Golden's going to
try to get more out of some of those players.
They're still trying to replace Jesse Bates. They're still trying
to replace the first version of Von Bell we got here.
(13:10):
And so safety is a position we have talked about
a lot. You mentioned this class at that position is deep.
Can you go further on that for me?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah, So, I mean you've got two guys I think
that are that our first round safety is in this class.
Nick Nicki Minwari from South Carolina, who's just maybe the
best athlete in the class period of any position. Just
phenomenal for three eight forty forty three inch for you know,
he's six six three two twenty five. You know, can
play anywhere, can play free safety, box safety, can walk
down and play in the box. And then Malchi starts
(13:41):
to get from Georgia, I think is also probably in
that same bucket. Not as good an athlete, but just
a brilliant, smart player on the field, elite ball skills,
everything else. I think he's a terrific, terrific talent. Is
going to be a really good player for wherever he goes.
Reminds me a lot of Brian Branch and that standpoint.
I think he can play either safety and in the
in the slot as well.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
And then you go down.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
You got Kevin Winston from Penn State, same kind of
thing as Malachi. I think he's a guy could move
all over the field, big hitter, will come up and
fit the run. Xavier Watts from Notre Dame. You know
guy who I think Golda would be familiar with. They're
a guy who is really really talented as well. I
think some people have him above Winston, even Andrew mccooba
from Texas, another one bowman from Oklahoma, Billy bowman, Malachai
(14:22):
Moore from Alabama, Sebastian Castro from Iowa. All of these guys,
that's like seven or eight guys right there, maybe eight
or nine whatever it was that all those guys I
think can play either safety spot, can come up and hit,
can even walk out and cover. In a class like
this where there's this is the kind of anti positional
value class, right Like running back is one of the
deepest groups, tight end is a really deep group, and
(14:44):
then safety is another one too, where these guys at
the top here you know, Iman Wari starts and then
Winston and even Watts in particular. These guys are some
people are going to have them in the top thirty
on their board or top forty on their board, you
know what I mean. So I think that those are
guys that are instant starters. Those are guys that can
come in right away, make something happen. You don't have
to take them off the field. They're three down players,
(15:05):
They're versatile, they can move around, and the best one
on the board is Emon Wari, but he's also a
guy that maybe needs more time the other guys. He's younger,
he's a junior. Starks, Winston and Wats are guys who've
played a ton of football, are really savvy and just
would be immediate impact guys. I feel like that at
a position like safety, you know, doesn't always fly off
(15:25):
the chart for people, but you can really find good
players if you take a stab on a safety early
and they can help you out a ton.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
You certainly do not sound like somebody who's exhausted from
doing NonStop radio and podcast. I do thank you for
doing this very insightful and maybe we could touch base
after the draft.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Thanks so much, Nick, Absolutely anytime you got it.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Thank you so much, way late. Nickbomb Gardner at the
Athletic dot com. It's five away from four o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
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Speaker 2 (16:28):
This reporting sponsor
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's sports station Sports headlines a service
of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime power train protection and
guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life
Kelsey chef dot Comrades and Mariners again Tonight at GABP
Nick Martinez and Bryce Miller six forty tonight seven hundred.
Wlw's starting line at this evening Freedol McLain, Dela Cruz
(00:24):
Hayes and left field Gavin Lux playing third base, Spencer
Steer back in the line of dhing Cees at first,
Freelien right, and Jose Travigno is behind the plate. This
was a very sad news to wake up to. Aaron Bupenza,
who played in twenty twenty three in twenty twenty four
for FC Cincinnati, has died. He fell from the eleventh
(00:48):
story of a building in China that he was living in.
Bupenza had a kind of a weird stay in Cincinnati,
a controversial stay in Cincinnati. Played in twenty four games
for FC Cincinnati in the twenty twenty three and twenty
twenty four seasons. Connor Hickman leaving UC to go to
(01:10):
Charleston Chances are you saw that if you're a Bearcat fan,
Dan Skilling is gonna be a Baylor Bear And we
saw yesterday Josh Reed is off to Penn State. The
NFL Draft is one week from tomorrow. Starts one week
from tomorrow. Nick bomb Gardner is an NFL draft analyst
fourth The Athletic. I've tweeted out a link to his
latest mock draft. I appreciate the time you have and
(01:32):
this is interesting to me. This caught my eye not
so much because of the player of the Bengals you
have the Bengals taking, but the guy you have them
not taking, who then went eighteen overall in your mock draft.
So let's start with that. You have him taking Mike
Green from Marshall and not Tyler Booker from Alabama. Why
Green and not Booker?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I mean, honestly, I think you could go either or
you know, I went Mike Green on that one, you know, because,
like we said, it's the situation with it's Hendrickson or
nobody in terms of pass rush there for the most
part in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So that was my sort of tie break.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
But like you said, he's a really complicated, sort of
evaluation for a lot of off the field you know,
concerns and all that sort of thing. Teams are really
going to have to do their homework there. But you
know you mentioned it. I mean, Tyler Booker would be
a terrific pick there, I feel like, I mean, we've
talked a lot over the years about Cincinnati trying to
fortify things up front, not just for you know, pass
(02:27):
protection purposes, but for also, you know, to give Burrow
a run game that can also protect him. I feel
like Cincinnati's run game if it could, you know, develop
a little more for a little more you know, beef
in there, which is all Booker really is at this point.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I mean, he's the.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Most physical, probably the most physical offensive lineman. I would
argue maybe in the draft tackle or guard a guy
who you know, I like as a fit for a
lot of teams, and I'm not sure how long he'll
be around. By frankly, I think that that would be
perfectly fine for him to be gone there where Cincinnati
is that. I think I did end up giving him
to Seattle right after there, So yeah, I mean, I
(03:02):
think Booker is a guy who can come in right
away and make an impact in the run game and
be a guy who probably even helps you know the
guy next to him, and that in that standpoint as well.
But I think the one question with a lot of
people have.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
With him is he's a little slow footed.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I think that that's been you know, you get a
big range on him in terms of some people like
him a lot, even a little bit higher on their board,
some people like him a little bit lower. Uh big
based on you know, what he can can or can't
do in terms of passpro But for Cincinnati, absolutely, I
think that pass rush or a guard or you know,
or offensive line in general, but in this case, it
would probably be a guard because I'm not sure about
(03:37):
to tackle there. But I think those are the two
that I looked at the most, either edge or somebody inside,
and I think it was either or on that's on
that stands.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Let's talk about Mike Green specifically, and I guess the
position of edge rusher specifically, and Mike Green's off field
concerns character issues are well documented. Our audience can can
go do their own research on that if if if
they're not up to speed on on what he's connected
to in Cincinnati. It wasn't that long ago where the
Bengals were like the team that you thought, if they're
(04:06):
going to take a chance on a guy with character issues,
it's the Bengals. And they've gotten away from that. And
I don't think that their success over the last couple
of years. I don't think it's a coincidence that they,
for the most part, have drafted guys with very few
character issues. So I look at what this guy has
hanging over him, and then I read the consensus, which
is edge is deep, and I ask myself, why do
(04:28):
I want to Why do I want to use a
first round pick that they've got a nail on Mike
Green when he plays a position that's pretty deep in
this draft? Can you address that for me?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So I think that it is a deep edge class.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
But I would also argue that, you know, Mike Green
is the type of guy that if you if you
if he clears your sort of you know, background protocol,
and he is a really comp and yeah, I mean,
people really got to read that for themselves. It's a
lot of stuff, and you know, he denies all of
it and firmly denies all of it and talked about
you know, the two accusations and everything that went on
he talked about that stuff more than I've ever heard
anybody at the combine talk of out you know, on
(05:01):
off the field thing. Usually it's I'm not going to
talk about it, or it's a canned answer or.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
What have you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
But he, I mean, it was in pretty serious detail
about the stuff that he talked about there at the podium.
So we'll see, we'll see what all happens there. But
I think with him, you know, if all of that checks,
he's the type of guy that athletically, physically, all the stuff,
is probably a top twelve player in this class. And
I think that that's the difference in there's depth here. Yes,
(05:26):
you can get a guy like JT. Tueam Molau from
Ohio State there in the second or third round. He'd
be a really nice player for a lot of teams
who would help people do a lot. Nick Scouerton kid
from text fan them, same kind of deal. A guy
who could help and really be a good player, a
nice player. But I think Green is the type of
guy that if you're looking for value, if he slides
down the board and you're okay with everything that you're
(05:48):
getting from him, then he could be a you know,
a star level difference maker, a guy who's you know,
really really difficult to deal with off the edge in
terms of athleticism, bend, power, everything else. Also a guy
who can drop and cover. And I really think in time,
you know, he needs to be tested probably on a
higher level. Was really dominant at the at the level
there at Marshall, but in time, I think he has
(06:10):
the similar kind of build that we talk about with
that duel Carter, Jalen Walker, the Michael Parsons, you know
position a guy that can move all over the place
to be stand up over a guard, drop and cover,
playing a stack, anything that you need him to do.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
He's just a really really off the charts.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Level athlete, especially when stacked up to the rest of
the guys in this class. So it's a good edged class.
But I don't know if it's like, you know, so
deep that you're gonna get stars or guys that can
be you know, three down, you know, weapons, so to speak.
And I think Green absolutely is still in that bucket
at the top there, you know, with that duel Carter,
samar Stewart and Michael Williams.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Probably all right, you used the name that I was
going to bring up because there was a mob draft
that you were a part of in early March and
you had the Bengals taking Gihad Campbell and that's that's
a name that we have talked about a ton. Here
in the synopsis of the pick, you describe him as
a Micah Parsons like wild card. That made my eyebrows.
That raised my eyebrows. So yeah, if I can get
(07:08):
Micah Parsons light, sign me up for that dive into
that evaluation for me.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
The thing with Campbell, the one thing with him is
he's still pretty young, and I think that there's some
you know, questions about how ready he is to do
everything that they're that you could possibly ask him to do.
I think it would need to be a little slower
on the take there with everything that he could expand
out to. But you know, six two six three, two
hundred and forty pounds was a four or five guy,
terrific burst everything else, like test it off the charts,
(07:35):
and if you watch him in Alabama, you know they
did expand his role from you know, just playing in
the box this year to getting up on the line,
putting his hand down and you know, getting atter the
quarterback and he is I think a guy who hasn't
even come close to scratching the surface of what he
can do. I think he's physically has a chance to
be more impressive than you know. Jalen Walker's the guy
(07:56):
I think a lot of people have pointed to as
the best player in that in that bucket of you know,
the linebacker who can also come down and play edge
and move around and do all the different stuff. It's
really kind of a hybrid front seven defender. But I
think in time, Johad Campbell is more He's more physically impressive,
and I think in time he could be the better player.
It's just a matter of you know, what you get
from him, if he stays healthy, if your coaching staff
(08:18):
can you know, work him up, and all those sorts
of things. But he has got all the versatility that
you're looking for. And I think that is really the
next wave of trend or what are you want to
call it in defensive football, is that you know the
guy up front who you don't know what he's doing.
If you're an offensive you know coordinator, or if you're an
offensive line coach, you don't know where he's coming from
on a snap to staff basis. We see this a
(08:39):
lot in college, and we have over the last few years,
several years really where you see those safeties come down
and they.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Play all over the box.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
But now we're starting to see defensive ends, you know,
walk back and play all over the place as well.
And I think that it's when you have a guy
like John Campbell, similar to Abdul Carter, who sort of
started out as an inside linebacker and then added the
pass rush on top of it. That was what Michael's
path was as well. You really have kind of a
positionless weapon who, if he embraces the role and can
(09:06):
handle it mentally, can be just a complete game changer.
And I think that that's what we've seen. You know,
Mike had really changed that, you know, almost created a
position by himself, and I think we've seen college teams,
especially over the last few years, try to develop guys
into that same role, and I think that's now hitting
the NFL. And John Campill's probably the rawest of that bunch,
but also in time could be maybe the best in
(09:27):
this year's class. So really really like him a lot,
and I think he's another one that's gonna have That's
what this class is all about the wide ranges on guys.
You're gonna have teams that really like him a lot
and teams that are like, well, we don't.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Know about for our situation.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So it's really about what you know, how comfortable you
are with You might need to take a little bit
of time with him, but the payoff could be really
really big. And you know, I still think he could
give you stuff right away. I don't think it's gonna
be something where he's just a you can't play him
or anything. I think you can definitely play him. It's
just a matter of is he going to max all
the way out as quickly as maybe another guy would
in this class. I don't know, but you know, the
(09:58):
long term payoff could be really good.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
With Nick bomb Gardner, NFL draft analysts for the Athletic,
with this for another couple of minutes. This team here
is is interesting because if you look at their draft needs,
there's a thousand of them right It's like every every
positional group on defense plus offensive line. If you just
look at that, and I'm sure that graphic will be
up on the screen on draft night, it looks like
(10:20):
a team that's coming off a four win season, it's
looked like it looks like a team that's like in
the middle of a rebuild, not one with bona fide
Super Bowl aspirations. But the hope here is they can
break through and win one in twenty twenty five. So
understanding their needs and understanding the urgency to get players
who could help right away, and understanding this draft class
the way you do at which position can they least
(10:41):
afford the way to pick a player.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Oh, that's a good question. I think that.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You know, for me, when I look at this board
the cornerback position, there's gonna be guys later, but there
could be some guys that fall here, you know that
are like Will Johnson. I don't know where Will Johnson's
going to go. And when we started the year, you know,
evaluating these guys back in the summer, a lot of
people you talk to head Will Johnson as the top
(11:06):
five player in this class. I Dane had him. Dan
Brugli Heer at the Athletic had at number one. I
think when the when the year start, right behind Hunter
might have been number two. Matter of fact, So you
know that's the type of player you're getting. But he's
falling because he hasn't tested. He was, he had a handstring,
he sat out the whole year. I don't think his
injuries that serious. I just don't think he I don't.
I don't think he wanted to play on a bad
team and it'd further expose himself anymore. Which is also
(11:30):
something that people have to, you know, get to know
him and all that sort of stuff. But when you
put the twenty twenty three tape on with him, it
was elite.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I mean he was the best.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
He was arguably the best player on that defense. And
that defense included Mason Graham. So I mean, this is
a phenomenal player. If he slides down the board and
you're Cincinnati and you say, hey, you know we need
everything on defense, you know that could be run right there,
because I do think, like you said, defensive tackle is
the defense group in the class. There are good edges
that you could find later. This is also a really
good safety class. And you know, I think this is
(12:00):
a better than normal linebacker plastic cornerbacks to me, for
the premium level talent, I think that you might want
to attack that earlier, and for a team like Cincinnati
who needs a lot of stuff. But like you said
to have the benefit of having an elite quarterback with
elite playmakers on offense. That can kind of get you
a lot of things. You don't need to have everything
right away. You're just trying to find the best player available.
(12:20):
So I think you could sit there and wait a
little bit and see if somebody falls to you at
a spotlight corner where all of a sudden, you know,
down there in the late teens, I'm getting a guy
that could be a top ten talent. You know, that's
the type of position I think that that could happen at.
You know, I don't know where Will is going to go.
I don't know where Johnny Barron is going to go either.
You know, the kid from Texas is also a phenomenal player.
There's not a lot of teams that need that. You
(12:40):
know that right now in front of in the top
fifteen whatever it is, So you could end up getting
a really good value there if he slides and falls
and you want to take a stab there.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Elaborate on something you just said for me, and then
I'll let you run. You know, what they're doing in
the secondary is interesting because there are a lot of
guys at corner that they've used early round draft choices
on that they haven't really gotten a lot out of,
and obviously a new defensive coordinator, Al Golden's going to
try to get more out of some of those players.
They're still trying to replace Jesse Bates. They're still trying
to replace the first version of Von Bell we got here.
(13:10):
And so safety is a position we have talked about
a lot. You mentioned this class at that position is deep.
Can you go further on that for me?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah, So, I mean you've got two guys I think
that are that our first round safety is in this class.
Nick Nicki Minwari from South Carolina, who's just maybe the
best athlete in the class period of any position. Just
phenomenal for three eight forty forty three inch for you know,
he's six six three two twenty five. You know, can
play anywhere, can play free safety, box safety, can walk
down and play in the box. And then Malchi starts
(13:41):
to get from Georgia, I think is also probably in
that same bucket. Not as good an athlete, but just
a brilliant, smart player on the field, elite ball skills,
everything else. I think he's a terrific, terrific talent. Is
going to be a really good player for wherever he goes.
Reminds me a lot of Brian Branch and that standpoint.
I think he can play either safety and in the
in the slot as well.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
And then you go down.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
You got Kevin Winston from Penn State, same kind of
thing as Malachi. I think he's a guy could move
all over the field, big hitter, will come up and
fit the run. Xavier Watts from Notre Dame. You know
guy who I think Golda would be familiar with. They're
a guy who is really really talented as well. I
think some people have him above Winston, even Andrew mccooba
from Texas, another one bowman from Oklahoma, Billy bowman, Malachai
(14:22):
Moore from Alabama, Sebastian Castro from Iowa. All of these guys,
that's like seven or eight guys right there, maybe eight
or nine whatever it was that all those guys I
think can play either safety spot, can come up and hit,
can even walk out and cover. In a class like
this where there's this is the kind of anti positional
value class, right Like running back is one of the
deepest groups, tight end is a really deep group, and
(14:44):
then safety is another one too, where these guys at
the top here you know, Iman Wari starts and then
Winston and even Watts in particular. These guys are some
people are going to have them in the top thirty
on their board or top forty on their board, you
know what I mean. So I think that those are
guys that are instant starters. Those are guys that can
come in right away, make something happen. You don't have
to take them off the field. They're three down players,
(15:05):
They're versatile, they can move around, and the best one
on the board is Emon Wari, but he's also a
guy that maybe needs more time the other guys. He's younger,
he's a junior. Starks, Winston and Wats are guys who've
played a ton of football, are really savvy and just
would be immediate impact guys. I feel like that at
a position like safety, you know, doesn't always fly off
(15:25):
the chart for people, but you can really find good
players if you take a stab on a safety early
and they can help you out a ton.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
You certainly do not sound like somebody who's exhausted from
doing NonStop radio and podcast. I do thank you for
doing this very insightful and maybe we could touch base
after the draft.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Thanks so much, Nick, Absolutely anytime you got it.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Thank you so much, way late. Nickbomb Gardner at the
Athletic dot com. It's five away from four o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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