September 15, 2025 • 8 mins
Dr. Nick Gates from OrthoCincy joined us to talk about Joe Burrow's toe injury and his prognosis.
Learn more about OrthoCincy by going here.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Follow on X: @MoEgger
Instagram too: @MoEgger
Learn more about OrthoCincy by going here.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Follow on X: @MoEgger
Instagram too: @MoEgger
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think we all have questions about Joe Burrows turftow injuries,
so here to answer some of them is doctor Nick
Gates from Ortho Sincy Orthopedics in Sports Medicine. You know
what huge fans of Ortho since we are the great
thing about Ortho Sinc. Is they have specialist locations and
services all over the Tri State. This includes walk in
orthopedic urgent care at five locations with extended evening and
(00:21):
weekend hours in Edgewood and Anderson. You can learn more
at Orthosinc dot com. Remember you never need an appointment
Ortho ci Ncy dot com. Doctor Nick Gates is with us.
Let's start with the basics here. It's a turftoe injury.
I know that injury in and of itself to a
lot of folks sounds relatively benign. Explain what turf toe is,
(00:42):
where it's actually located on the big toe, and why
something like this can be so debilitating.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Take yourself to your big toe, makes her. Everyone understands
it's the bottom of your big toe. You're right. It
can be pretty painful and it can be pretty debilitating
because if you tear the ligaments bottom of your big toe,
it can remain pretty painful in sore. To do anything
that requires push off. You're using that foot to push off,
(01:09):
and so there's a lot of force going across that
toe joint, much more than we appreciate when it's healthy.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So this is a Grade three turf toe injury that
is reportedly going to require surgery. Explain this type of
injury versus a Grade three turftow injury that doesn't require surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Now, that's getting into the weeds right there. It's a
great question. Grade three just indicates complete tear. We have
Grade one, two, and three tears of other ligaments in
the body that you hear. Grade three indicates complete tear.
That ligament is completely torn and shows evidence of instability,
or there's a fracture of a bone. There's two sasmoid
(01:49):
bones that sit in what's called our plant, our plate.
That's the ligament underneath your big toe. If you tear
that ligament completely, that's a Grade three. If you also
separate one of the bones, that makes it more complex
and more likely to require surgery. I will say some
with just complete tears of the ligament are gonna need
surgery because the joint is unstable. If it's unstable, The
(02:13):
toad won't stay in the correct position without surgery. If
you break through one of those bones, it makes it unstable. Typically,
so if the toe joint is unstable with a Grade
three injury, that will typically lead to surgery.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Is this the sort of thing you at times hear
about injuries where the injury occurs, but surgery can happen
until a few days have passed. Is this something like
that or could they do it as soon as today?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I would be a little surprised if they do it
as soon as today. It certainly is something that can
be done within the next several days. Some surgeons may
opt to let some of the swelling go down for
even up to a week or so before they perform
the surgery, but it's something they're gonna want to get
to in a relatively timely fashion. In a range you
(03:02):
would think this would be done within seven days or
ten days at the most.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So once the surgery happens, walk me through recovery and
the rehab process. What does that look like.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The recovery is going to be unfortunately, some offloading or
with the use of crutches and or a knee scooter.
Certainly a boot that we saw him in yesterday. The
boot is required to stabilize or protect those ligaments on
the bottom of the foot. It would surprise me if
they let him even bear weight on the foot. Initially,
there'll be a time where he cannot put his foot
(03:34):
on the ground. Unfortunately, that can lead to some secondary
issues with atrophy. I'm sure they will immediately deal with
those things and even be able to perform some therapy
to minimize the actually on the rest of the leg
while he's recovering, and it's going to take some time
for those ligaments to heal stable enough for him to
bear weight and then actually move the joint. So there's
(03:56):
a time where the joint has to be held still,
depending upon the type of surgic core repair, and once
that happens, the next phases will begin to be able
to bear weight and to get motion in the toe.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Doctor Nick Gates from Ortho Cincia is with us. The
timeline that is being reported is minimum three months, so
I guess that's best case. Does that timeline mesh with
what you've come to understand about this injury.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Unfortunately, that's true, very true. This is not something that
they're going to want to rush through. This is not
something that you typically will see someone play with when
it's sore and try to quote, you know, quote unquote
play through it. There's certain injuries you can do that
with a Grade three turf toe is not, unfortunately, you'll
(04:44):
see with other NFL players, particularly quarterbacks. There are more
mild cases. There are Grade one and two where an
athlete might be out for a week or two or
three and then gradually resume their activities. But in a
Grade three injury with surgery, that three month timeline, I
think he's very accurate and potentially somewhat conservative, So I
(05:05):
would be impressed and hopeful to back that it would
be back in three months.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But that does feel like best case for you.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
God, if this surgery goes through as they are reporting, yes,
three months sounds like best case scenario.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Somebody asked me on social media last night a question
that I'm obviously not equipped to answer, but the question
was essentially like, is this the sort of injury that
just happens or could this be the result of an
accumulation of things where maybe he suffers turf toe and
he plays through it and then the grade gets worse
that sort of thing, or does this just look it's
like breaking a leg, right, it just happens. Is this
that kind of injury?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
From what I see, this just happened to him. I
see no reports or evidence or watching him through the
preseason he was being hampered by this at all. And
that's how the majority of these are. I will tell
you there are some cases, and you mentioned how some
people will minimize always and think, well, it's just your toe,
what's the big deal. There are players who will have
(06:01):
a Grade one or Grade two turf toe injury and
try to push through that, and that will linger and
become chronic. And that's a battle with a lot of
athletes because a lot of athletes want to ignore their
toe pain and just push through it. But in this case,
with the video we see, this looks like it's just
something that happened. Unfortunately, that lineman came down on the
back of his heel, which forced that toe into that position.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
One of the things that was interesting to me, and
I won't keep you too much longer, is when he
first went down, he was holding his calf. Why would
you hold your calf if you've got a toe injury.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I think he was just starting to localize the pain
at that point. I think that was quick right after
it happened, and he was just starting to reach down
himself and reaching out. I don't think he had anything
to do with his calf other than it certainly could
have strained the calf with that same mechanism a.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Bit one more. You know, lay people will say things like, well,
he's injury prone, and it goes without saying he has
a laundry list of physical issues he has had to
deal with. When an expert like yourself hears someone refer
to a quarterback or any athlete as being injury prone,
does that come off as unfair? Is that somewhat accurate?
(07:09):
What's your reaction to that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I think the term injury prone it sounds negative and
it has a negative connotation to it. I think my
opinion is Joe Burrow has been very unlucky. But I
don't think there's anything in him or what he does
or how he prepares that leads to him being injury prone.
I don't think he takes unnecessary risks. I don't think
(07:33):
he does those things. I think he just has been unlucky.
And I'll tell you I think that's more often not
the case with athletes that you see with multiple injuries.
I see athletes also who I think are incredibly lucky,
seeing athletes who play complete careers and have hardly spent
a moment on the sideline through high school or college
or even the pros.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Well said, I can't thank you enough. We did this
on short notice. Thank you so much. We'll lunchat soon.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Thanks mouth. Happy to be here that we have to have.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
This conversation about Joe Burrow. But I love the fact
that we have experts at our disposal from Ortho. Since
I say this every single week because it's true. The
great thing about Ortho Sincy is they have specialists and
locations all over the tri State. That includes walk in
orthopedic urgent care weekdays from nine am to nine pm
and on Saturdays from nine am to one pm at
(08:21):
both their Edgewood and Anderson locations. It's easy because you
don't need an appointment, and it's definitely cheaper than going
to an er. Whenever you have an urgent orthopedic injury,
go to Orthosincy dot com. That's Ortho ci Ncy dot com.
I think we all have questions about Joe Burrows turftow injuries,
so here to answer some of them is doctor Nick
Gates from Ortho Sincy Orthopedics in Sports Medicine. You know
what huge fans of Ortho since we are the great
thing about Ortho Sinc. Is they have specialist locations and
services all over the Tri State. This includes walk in
orthopedic urgent care at five locations with extended evening and
(00:21):
weekend hours in Edgewood and Anderson. You can learn more
at Orthosinc dot com. Remember you never need an appointment
Ortho ci Ncy dot com. Doctor Nick Gates is with us.
Let's start with the basics here. It's a turftoe injury.
I know that injury in and of itself to a
lot of folks sounds relatively benign. Explain what turf toe is,
(00:42):
where it's actually located on the big toe, and why
something like this can be so debilitating.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Take yourself to your big toe, makes her. Everyone understands
it's the bottom of your big toe. You're right. It
can be pretty painful and it can be pretty debilitating
because if you tear the ligaments bottom of your big toe,
it can remain pretty painful in sore. To do anything
that requires push off. You're using that foot to push off,
(01:09):
and so there's a lot of force going across that
toe joint, much more than we appreciate when it's healthy.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So this is a Grade three turf toe injury that
is reportedly going to require surgery. Explain this type of
injury versus a Grade three turftow injury that doesn't require surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Now, that's getting into the weeds right there. It's a
great question. Grade three just indicates complete tear. We have
Grade one, two, and three tears of other ligaments in
the body that you hear. Grade three indicates complete tear.
That ligament is completely torn and shows evidence of instability,
or there's a fracture of a bone. There's two sasmoid
(01:49):
bones that sit in what's called our plant, our plate.
That's the ligament underneath your big toe. If you tear
that ligament completely, that's a Grade three. If you also
separate one of the bones, that makes it more complex
and more likely to require surgery. I will say some
with just complete tears of the ligament are gonna need
surgery because the joint is unstable. If it's unstable, The
(02:13):
toad won't stay in the correct position without surgery. If
you break through one of those bones, it makes it unstable. Typically,
so if the toe joint is unstable with a Grade
three injury, that will typically lead to surgery.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Is this the sort of thing you at times hear
about injuries where the injury occurs, but surgery can happen
until a few days have passed. Is this something like
that or could they do it as soon as today?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I would be a little surprised if they do it
as soon as today. It certainly is something that can
be done within the next several days. Some surgeons may
opt to let some of the swelling go down for
even up to a week or so before they perform
the surgery, but it's something they're gonna want to get
to in a relatively timely fashion. In a range you
(03:02):
would think this would be done within seven days or
ten days at the most.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So once the surgery happens, walk me through recovery and
the rehab process. What does that look like.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The recovery is going to be unfortunately, some offloading or
with the use of crutches and or a knee scooter.
Certainly a boot that we saw him in yesterday. The
boot is required to stabilize or protect those ligaments on
the bottom of the foot. It would surprise me if
they let him even bear weight on the foot. Initially,
there'll be a time where he cannot put his foot
(03:34):
on the ground. Unfortunately, that can lead to some secondary
issues with atrophy. I'm sure they will immediately deal with
those things and even be able to perform some therapy
to minimize the actually on the rest of the leg
while he's recovering, and it's going to take some time
for those ligaments to heal stable enough for him to
bear weight and then actually move the joint. So there's
(03:56):
a time where the joint has to be held still,
depending upon the type of surgic core repair, and once
that happens, the next phases will begin to be able
to bear weight and to get motion in the toe.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Doctor Nick Gates from Ortho Cincia is with us. The
timeline that is being reported is minimum three months, so
I guess that's best case. Does that timeline mesh with
what you've come to understand about this injury.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Unfortunately, that's true, very true. This is not something that
they're going to want to rush through. This is not
something that you typically will see someone play with when
it's sore and try to quote, you know, quote unquote
play through it. There's certain injuries you can do that
with a Grade three turf toe is not, unfortunately, you'll
(04:44):
see with other NFL players, particularly quarterbacks. There are more
mild cases. There are Grade one and two where an
athlete might be out for a week or two or
three and then gradually resume their activities. But in a
Grade three injury with surgery, that three month timeline, I
think he's very accurate and potentially somewhat conservative, So I
(05:05):
would be impressed and hopeful to back that it would
be back in three months.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But that does feel like best case for you.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
God, if this surgery goes through as they are reporting, yes,
three months sounds like best case scenario.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Somebody asked me on social media last night a question
that I'm obviously not equipped to answer, but the question
was essentially like, is this the sort of injury that
just happens or could this be the result of an
accumulation of things where maybe he suffers turf toe and
he plays through it and then the grade gets worse
that sort of thing, or does this just look it's
like breaking a leg, right, it just happens. Is this
that kind of injury?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
From what I see, this just happened to him. I
see no reports or evidence or watching him through the
preseason he was being hampered by this at all. And
that's how the majority of these are. I will tell
you there are some cases, and you mentioned how some
people will minimize always and think, well, it's just your toe,
what's the big deal. There are players who will have
(06:01):
a Grade one or Grade two turf toe injury and
try to push through that, and that will linger and
become chronic. And that's a battle with a lot of
athletes because a lot of athletes want to ignore their
toe pain and just push through it. But in this case,
with the video we see, this looks like it's just
something that happened. Unfortunately, that lineman came down on the
back of his heel, which forced that toe into that position.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
One of the things that was interesting to me, and
I won't keep you too much longer, is when he
first went down, he was holding his calf. Why would
you hold your calf if you've got a toe injury.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I think he was just starting to localize the pain
at that point. I think that was quick right after
it happened, and he was just starting to reach down
himself and reaching out. I don't think he had anything
to do with his calf other than it certainly could
have strained the calf with that same mechanism a.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Bit one more. You know, lay people will say things like, well,
he's injury prone, and it goes without saying he has
a laundry list of physical issues he has had to
deal with. When an expert like yourself hears someone refer
to a quarterback or any athlete as being injury prone,
does that come off as unfair? Is that somewhat accurate?
(07:09):
What's your reaction to that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I think the term injury prone it sounds negative and
it has a negative connotation to it. I think my
opinion is Joe Burrow has been very unlucky. But I
don't think there's anything in him or what he does
or how he prepares that leads to him being injury prone.
I don't think he takes unnecessary risks. I don't think
(07:33):
he does those things. I think he just has been unlucky.
And I'll tell you I think that's more often not
the case with athletes that you see with multiple injuries.
I see athletes also who I think are incredibly lucky,
seeing athletes who play complete careers and have hardly spent
a moment on the sideline through high school or college
or even the pros.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Well said, I can't thank you enough. We did this
on short notice. Thank you so much. We'll lunchat soon.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Thanks mouth. Happy to be here that we have to have.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
This conversation about Joe Burrow. But I love the fact
that we have experts at our disposal from Ortho. Since
I say this every single week because it's true. The
great thing about Ortho Sincy is they have specialists and
locations all over the tri State. That includes walk in
orthopedic urgent care weekdays from nine am to nine pm
and on Saturdays from nine am to one pm at
(08:21):
both their Edgewood and Anderson locations. It's easy because you
don't need an appointment, and it's definitely cheaper than going
to an er. Whenever you have an urgent orthopedic injury,
go to Orthosincy dot com. That's Ortho ci Ncy dot com.
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