9-16-25 - Mo Egger with Paul Dehner Jr

Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the obvious. 

Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.

Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.

Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen

Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger

Follow on X: @MoEgger

Instagram too: @MoEgger

Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.

Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.

Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen

Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger

Follow on X: @MoEgger

Instagram too: @MoEgger

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Minnesota Vikings, which reminds me Prince Squish from Minnesota. No,

(00:04):
it's time for the Bengals to bring the purple pain.
Will they slay the Vikings? Get the cool from Dan
Hood and Dave. App coverage begins Sunday morning at nine am,
stream for free on the new and improved Higheart Radio
app or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the
Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
All right, what's up. It's three minutes after three o'clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty out Bawlegger. Thank you so
much for joining us. Hopefully you're having an unbelievable Tuesday.
It's Tuesday, so that means we are at Oakley Greens
right in the heart of Oakley if if you haven't been.
I have a buddy of mine who heard us do
the show at Oakley Greens two weeks ago and then said,

(00:47):
because of that, he came here for a college football Saturday.
And he's like, dude, I had no idea, because this
place is awesome. Great for families, great for you and
your buddies, great for a date, great to hang out outside.
We are outside, but a cover. They've got cabana rentals.
You could play cornhole, ping pong, you could play mini golf.
Of course, here at Oakley Greens, the TV setup is terrific.

(01:09):
If you're looking for a place to watch the Bengals
game on Sunday, Oakley Greens has it. Oakley Station very
close to I seventy one. The staff here is unbelievable.
The food is good, tons of drinks, great beer selection,
cool looking Bengals cups, and so much more. So come
on out to Oakley Greens and as the afternoon unfolds,
we'll tell you about some of the stuff they have

(01:30):
happening here over the course of the next couple of days.
Paul Danner Juniors here from the Athletic and the Growlar
podcast him, how's it going? You know, realize how loaded
of a question that is.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean, we can't even get started without that already
having me just not feeling right. It's just it's surreal.
I'm driving over here today, my very short drive, thank
you again, and thinking to myself, this is so surreal
thinking back to what we were talking about a week
ago and where you're at now with this, and how

(02:06):
the tone of everything has changed.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's just it's.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Surreal that we're doing this in week three, but this
is what it is.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with
people where no words have been exchanged since Sunday. You
just look at each other, look, you know, like in
an audio medium. It doesn't do any good for me
to sort of do that, But I mean, yes, I've
had a lot of those. I just said this to
Tony and Austin. The further we get removed from Sunday Afternoon,

(02:35):
the saltier, I am, yeah, like Sunday, I'm doing TOPNS.
I'm trying to have fun with it. You know what
this is gonna be? Okay, No, it's not okay.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's not funny anymore because now the reality sinks in
of you try to start turning ahead to the next game,
and you're like uugh, turning ahead to not having Joe
Burrow to talk about, Like this is not as fun.
This is wait, this season feels is irrelevant already and
now and they're two and out.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
What is happening here?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
It's yeah, it's the further you get away, when you
start thinking about what's next, you realize, well, this what's
next part stinks And the thing is I have felt like,
not so much publicly, but just emotionally and mentally, I'm
doing Jake Browning in disservice.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah right, I feel like we have plenty of time
to do him. We do, but but this isn't December,
you know, it's not Hey, they were seven and six,
Joe got hurt, seasons cooked, they they have a season
in front of them, fifteen more games, a good team,
an interesting team, a likable team, an interesting team, and

(03:46):
a quarterback whose performances last year deserve, for lack of
a better way of putting it, our respect. But I
don't want to give it to him yet, Like I'm not,
and maybe by Sunday I will be. And Jake, let's go,
let's go three and oh and see where this thing goes.
But I have felt like at times like all right, mo,
like why don't you give Jake Browning a chance to
at least give you the sort of season that you

(04:09):
could enjoy as it unfolds, because I think he's capable
of doing that.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, And I mean, you know something I noticed and
just a you know, really you could feel it yesterday
down at the building talking to Zach Taylor and Dan
Pitcher and talking to Jake Browning after the game and
all of that stuff. This is an incredibly important moment.

(04:33):
This is Jake Browning has worked his whole life to
have this chance to prove that he belongs and that
he can play in this league, something that he believes
strongly within himself, something that he's proven in his seven
game stretch before. You know, Dan Pitcher didn't get an
interview last year in the cycle, and despite an offense

(04:54):
that blossomed his first year and everything that Joe Burrow
did playing on MVP level and all that stuff, and
Brian Callahan got passed over for years until when Jake
Browning came in. They were able to make the offense
look pretty good and be sustainable, and Jake had seventy
percent completion rate and all that stuff, and suddenly he
was the hot candidate and the head coach of the

(05:15):
Tennessee Titans.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
You could there was.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
A bristling a little bit from Dan Pitcher yesterday being like,
this is like what we do as coaches every day.
Coaches are handed a new fire, right like that that
that is that profession and so they're able to take it,
process it and move forward with focus. And while while

(05:38):
you know people listening to this show and and you
and everybody else like, that's not how it works. It's
it's emotional and a man, and I want to place
blame and everything. Yeah, but they have they're moving like,
they're like this.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
We're moving this on.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
This is an opportunity for me as Dan Pitcher, as
the Bengals, as Zach Taylor, like everybody in that building
has a ton on the line the rest of this season.
And it may feel empty right now as people assess
Joe Burrow's toe and what all this means, but for
everybody in that building, they're thinking, we can do something

(06:13):
special here, something that people don't see coming. Jake Browning
feels that way, Zach Taylor feels that way. That defense
feels that way, Like there's a whole season where they
feel like they can do something and they're two and
zero and so why not start there and get it
rolling now.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
So I the energy that was.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Notable to me coming out of the building yesterday of
being like we can go do something special. And it's
fun to feel that way when you're two and ow
and you haven't played a game yet without Joe Burrow.
Let's see what it sounds like in mid November. But
you know that I think is a notable intensity that
existed yet.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
But you know what, if this was the first time
this had happened, everything you just outlined would be exactly
how I felt, because my take would be Okay, over
the course of his time in Cincinnati, he was probably
gonna suffer an injury, probably one that was you know,
lasted a while. This isn't I don't think something that's
career threatening, like okay, So let's see what Jake does.

(07:12):
I wish I was there, but I'm not because not
because of Sunday, but because of the recurrence of things
like Sunday. And that's what it is for me. And
and you wrote about this perfectly and your headline captured
my question. How long until it's too late? Yeah? Right?
I mean how long? Because that's where I am going. Okay,
this is year six, Joe is still a young man,

(07:35):
still in his prime. But how many how many wax
out of deer really get right? How how how many
more times is this gonna happen before It's like, you
know what, the Borough era didn't materialize the way it
should have. He was wasted. They didn't capitalize on what

(07:55):
they had. Maybe we're not there yet, but we're closer.
We're a lot closer than we were on Sunday morning.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
It makes you think again about last year. Yes, it
makes you think head went on. It's like because when
you have him, when he when you have the group
together doing it and all the pieces in place, you
want them to have a shot to make their run
in January, and the defense blew that last year, and
this year you have this injury.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
And everything else, and I just it's.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
It's hard not to come back to me to this
team's inability to it's not just have offensive linemen that
can protect. I think that is an over a drastic
oversimplification is being like ah tine right, Yeah, but it

(08:49):
goes back to the inability to draft and develop offensive
lineman over Joe Burrow's entire tenure, because you're not just
had a great conversation with Andrew Whitworth about this and
I'll have that out tomorrow. You are not gonna go
to the magical offensive lineman tree in March. That nobody's

(09:10):
letting good offensive linemen out of the building, like not
real ones, and that is a rarity for you to
be able to do that, even to the level of
Orlando Brown that you did, like that is a rarey.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Teams lose.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Generations half generations of players and by not drafting properly
in the trenches.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Or they build them.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Look at eleven through fifteen, right, that was built on
the backs of Kevin Zeitler and Clint Bowling and Andrew
Whitworth and Andre Smith and those guys, like they build
it on that. And then let's look at what happened
after that, Russell Bodine and Cedric Obwayhe and Jake Fisher,
and you lose the next four years. And let's look
at what happened in Burrows early years. You have this

(09:59):
great team, you have all the advantages of let's call
it one hundred million dollars in cap surplus because you
have Jamar t and Joe on rookie contracts, but missing
in the twenty twenty one draft, not drafting all your
line picks, not hitting cost you a championship or two,
and not having those guys now have forced you to

(10:20):
be sitting there in free agency this year trying to
find a guard that maybe didn't exist, and trying to
find ways to make all that work. The inability to
do that over the course of many, many years is
part of what has left them in this spot. And
I think it's easy to say, I think they it's

(10:41):
easy to say they're not protecting Joe, right, they're they're trying. Yeah,
I think it's easy to say they don't care, and
I that's not right.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
I throw water. I'll criticize them for a lot of
things you can't not care and use if you want
to go back a decade, first and second round picks
an offensive lineman in twenty fifteen, a first round pick
on an offensive lineman in twenty eighteen, the first round
pick on an offensive lineman in twenty nineteen, a second
rounder in twenty twenty one, a first rounder in twenty
twenty four, signed the likes of Leyle Collins, Alex Kapa,

(11:13):
Ted Kris, Riley Reef, Trent Brown, Orlando bro You can't, like,
you can't do those things and be accused convincingly of
not caring. But I don't care about how much they
care and care about what they do, and so like
we talked about this on the Growlary today, but like
that's I make this about more than what happened on Sunday.
Zach Taylor yesterday said, look, it's football. If this was

(11:35):
a one off, that's what I would say, Like, dude,
pocket collapsed. It happens. Guy got hurt. Boy, it sucks
like awful. It's a recurring theme and has been even
when they've been at their best. The pinnacle this century
of Bengals football put Joe Burrow behind the worst offensive
line that's ever taken the field in a Super Bowl. Yeah,

(11:56):
that's that cost him a championship. Yes, So this is
less to me about God, they can't protect Joe Burrow,
and it's more about the continued inability, no matter what
they have tried, despite their best efforts to make that
part of the team not a liability. And this, what
happened on Sunday, is one of the results of that.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
And this is why my you know, as I've gotten
deeper into this, my thought has swayed to talking more
about this style of play, not necessarily of Joe Burrow,
but of the entire offense right, which is in some
ways hands in hand. I mean, this is what Joe
has wanted. Joe wants to throw it more, Joe wants
everybody out in the route Joe likes to stand back

(12:40):
in the pocket and not be under center as much,
not have to turn his back to the defense as much.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
These are his preferences.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
They try to build him an offense that keeps him
comfortable and is what he wants. That is very hard
to sustain. Witt said to me, He said, what the
Bengals do for an offensive life is the hardest job
in football. They have him sitting back there in true
past sets, at volumes no one else's with the defense,

(13:11):
not even thinking about anything else, not about motions, not
about play actions, not about any of the other stuff
that so many of these offenses take advantage of. So
that you just give these other defensive linemen something to
think about, and so they tee off. And if you're
Orlando Brown, or you're a Marius Mims or any of

(13:32):
these guards or whoever you are, in the toughest thing,
an offensive lineman can have to do a wider percentage
of the time than anyone else is asked to be.
So your past block win rates that get thrown in
their face and then they look bad, right and it
looks like they're not doing their job. They're asked to

(13:53):
do a really hard job, there are ways to make
their job easier. That goes back to the philosophy style
of what's being called by the staff of what's of
how they're going about that part. And I think that
is something that needs to be reconsidered, whether it's even
for a smaller portion of time earlier in the season,

(14:16):
until you get a feel for exactly what you have upfront.
But if you've got and I thought we saw that
in Week one against Cleveland a little bit. Yeah, like
that was like maybe they got frustrated and said, I
can't keep doing that, but you know, we don't know
what we have upfront. Let's have a conservative game plan.
Run the ball, don't turn it over until we learn
more about the rookie at left guard, about what we

(14:37):
having Lucas Patrick at right guard. Let's try to just
keep it clean right now. Early in this maybe there
needs to be a lot more of that, Maybe there
needs to be a willingness.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
To stay with that.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
But there's there's the conversation to me in terms of
what changes, how can you change this, and maybe there's
some convincing Joe to change a percentage of what he
does as well. Is where you can really change things
and say let's go forward for something a little bit
more sustainable, and knowing that that might be where that lives.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Let's continue with that when we come back. Paul Danner,
junior at the Athletic dot Com and the Growler podcast
latest episode is out. During that episode, I took three
mood Lightning.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Gummies and that appeared to not be enough or they
were not acting.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
They haven't taken yet. Yeah, well they definitely didn't take.
The Afron Saffron in the mood Lightning Gummies hasn't quite
punched you. Let me just tell you, you.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Know how they have the like sky Rizzy commercials and
everyone's camping. That is not what the commercial for the
mood lightener was supposed to look like, where a dude
just like can't hold it together.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
As I said, like, the further we get removed from Sunday,
the more pissed off I am. And I enjoyed it.
I thought it was great content shirt It's awesome, but
I mean and it's I feel awful for Joe Burrow.
I mean, the human part of this matters to me,
Like as a as a fan of the team and

(16:09):
of him, I'm sad for me I'm sad for everybody
who cares even remotely about this team. I'm sad for him.
And that might sound overly dramatic, and I don't care,
like I know we're late for a break here, but
I keep thinking of him sitting in the locker room
or the trainer's room or wherever they looked at his toe,
being told like, dude, look, this could be surgery, and

(16:30):
him just going like really, yeah, like I gotta I
gotta have another surgery. I've got to rehab again, Like
I gotta do this again. Yeah. I don't care how
well compensated you are. I don't care what kind of
lifestyle you have that has to be maddening and fatiguing

(16:53):
and demoralizing.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
And you train and you to be ready to handle
all the hits that you're gonna take, all of that
all off season to try to be ready for it,
and then you go down and have a toe ligament. Yeah,
ends up, pop, and it's like, what are the odds?
You know, just what are the odds.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I'll give you the bottle of the mood gummies. I
want to take them down to the stadium. I don't
know that I'm buying. I'm not gonna lie twenty minutes
after three o'clock. We're at Oakley Greens. Paul's here till four,
We're here till six. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station Block. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. We are
broadcasting from Oakley Greens on my legger. Paul Danner Junior
from the Athletic and the Growl of podcast is with us.

(17:38):
Festive Day Today.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Festive Day absolutely, you know, I said, I said at
the beginning of the episode, I said, Look, we're always
talking about how we try to be here for the journey.
Where there's some days it's it's a party, some days
we joke around.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Some days like today, it's strictly on the therapy couch.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
If that's all it is.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
It's like everybody needs to talk this out together and
just know that there's somebody that's listening to you.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Starting ten years ago, the NFL started to move in
the direction of quarterbacks operating out of the gun, maybe
not exclusively, but mostly And I think on a given
annual basis, sixty five percent of NFL snaps are taken
in the shotgun. Right, Bengals aren't the only team using
this all the time, although they use it more than most.
And yet the solution here is to do what the

(18:25):
rest of the league is not doing, which has put
the quarterback under center. Make this make sense? Well, I think.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
In terms of when you move to Jake Browning, you mean, no,
Joe's the quarterback next year?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, maybe even later this season. Yeah, because you hear that,
and I'm not saying it's invalid, but hey, he's got
to operate more under center? Is that? Yeah? Temporary thing?
Is it? Look? Moving forward, no matter what the composition
of the offensive line is, no matter who our wide
receivers are, Joe is going to have to play under center.
More Like, how does this? Why are we doing this?

Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think play the run game and play action just
naturally works better from under center. Sure, and slows down
the pass rush. You know, when you're when you're already
back there in the backfield and you're doing this like
the play action and the gun is not a lot
of weird. Yeah, there's not a lot of people being
sold on it.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
You can try.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
And and and running out of the gun is a
little bit harder in general. The I mean, they really
like to chase brown partially because he's a good shotgun
running back, like that's on his tape and that they
would try to develop this kind of scheme.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
But I mean, it's just harder to do.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
It's just harder to develop a consistent running game when
you're always always in the shotgun and a non under center.
And I just think the play action and all that
stuff that you can do from under center, it just
keeps keeps the defense off balance, It keeps the pass
rushers off balance a little bit more, allows you to
do a little bit more of marrying the run in
the past, stuff that slows down pass rush and makes

(20:01):
it easier. It can create some easier throws. Now, that's
because ninety five percent of the league doesn't have someone
that could process and be accurate like Joe Burrow can.
It's an incredible superpower and advantage to have that you
can be able to see the open guy, get it
to them that quickly, and throw the ball that much
without feeling like you're putting it in harm's way and

(20:23):
all the things that come with the passing game. So
you know, there's a reason you lean in all of that.
But yeah, I think it can just create a little
a few more easy buttons for your quarterback and your
offensive line, which we talked about making me a best
where every down feels like you're begging them to go
back there in a true Passe set, if you can
run play action and they're run blocking and it feels

(20:45):
like a run to the defense and you're going out
the other way, it just it makes things a lot
easier on your offensive line.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
So let's let's say the best case becomes the actual
case and Jake gets them through the next three months
and they stay afloat, and Joe's tow ends up healing
properly and he could play at the end of the
season and the games matter, so he's gonna come back
for Arizona and Cleveland, and they say to Joe, welcome back,
it's great to have you. We're tearing up how we

(21:14):
were doing things, and you're gonna operate under center more often.
What does that look like.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
I think it's very I don't think it's some dramatic change.
It's it's like every season, every season now. I feel
like in the early part of October, we talk about
how the Bengals made a scheme alteration, started using twelve
personnel last twelve personnel, or when they started doing the
gun downhill run gap scheme stuff in twenty two, or.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
They've ad justin on the floor. They've done this a
lot every year.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
There's something I think where it's like, this team need
to lean into this corner of the playbook. We it's
just this is what's where you figure out what's working,
you lean into it, you grow that part of the playbook.
I think they've done a good job as a staff
of that over the years. I think that's what it
looks like. I think it is. Look, they're not asking
They wouldn't be asking Joe to do stuff he can't do,

(22:07):
doesn't do.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
You are just leaning in.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
We've leaned into this quarter of the playbook this year,
so that's what we're going to go keep doing a
version of that, and you open up the corners that
Joe Burrow opens up for you, which is pretty much
everything as well. But I think I think that's all
it is. I think it's it's not like you're reinventing.
I think you're just Every team figures out what it
is they do and they do best and try to
create an identity around that every year, and that's what

(22:33):
that would be.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
But I think there's a belief out there that says, well,
Joe wants to play this way, so that's how they
have to play. And I guess my take on that
is he plays for the team. They have coaches in
collabor race with each other. It can be something that is,
you know, not handing the ball off three consecutive times
under center, but also not operating exclusively out of the gun,

(22:56):
Like I think Joe Burrow strikes me as a reasonable
enough guy to go, Okay, let's try it a different way,
in a way that meshes how we played with Jake
two years ago, that still allows me to take advantage
of my physical and mental skill set.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
But if those people having this conversation say that's not
what gives us the best chance to win this game,
and you know it's hard. You're you're talking about the
risk and you're talking about long term sustainability versus.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
We need to get off to a fast start, right sure,
everybody is on us, Hey check that box. Everybody everybody
is on us. We gotta win the first couple of weeks.
We can't start slow. We gotta start fact, we have
to do whatever we can to win this game. In
the NFL man, like, it's hard.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
For these guys to do more than think about what
do we gotta do to win this week? What is
the comp and usually to win this week, it's to
let Joe sit back there and cook, right, And so
they have and it has proven over the long haul
to have sustainability issue use obviously amongst all the other

(24:02):
things we touched on in the first segment. But so
for that fact, it's like, where do you where do
you figure that out? I don't know, I do I
know either. I mean, that's these are the questions they
I think. I think this team and next offseason is
going to be in a really fascinating spot in terms
of figuring out how they go forward and figure out sustainability. Yeah,

(24:24):
and what's best because of how to adjust the way
that they play or if you can't or if they
say what they said what they have been saying, it
was a fluky thing, like we can keep playing this
way and it's fine and keep incurring these same risks. Perhaps,
But I think that's a really interesting conversation when you
get into long term sustainability versus the best way to

(24:46):
win each individual week.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's hard because you're always building your team and your
team's plan of attack around the skill set of your
best players. You're not gonna sign Steph Curry and tell
him throw the ball to the post twenty five times
a game. You're not gonna do that. And so, all right,
you've got this elite quarterback who has great at these things.

(25:09):
Let's play in a way that amplifies those things. That
is not putting him under center, right, that is not
putting him under center and having them run at thirty
five times a game. Zach Taylor said that yesterday. Okay,
At the same time, none of this works if he's
not healthy. And so the meshing of doing what you
can to take best advantage of Joe's skill set with

(25:32):
ensuring his health and keeping him upright and as best
as you can protecting his ability to play seventeen games.
I'm fascinated by what that could look like. I have
no idea what it does, no idea if it'll work,
but it really does feel like, perhaps just schematically, they're
at a very important crossroads.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yeah, and I also think you have to sit down
and talk honestly with Joe, and he's done a great
job of adjusting his game. I mean we laugh about
the year of the checkdown. Yeah, and evolving his game
to understand sustainability and the importance of him being out there.
We've had a lot of those conversations with him and

(26:15):
with this staff over the years, and they have evolved.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
He's changed the.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Way he plays, and maybe the next evolution for him
is gonna be, Look, I don't I don't have to
be playing hero ball every step. I don't have to.
It's cool that I can. Right last year, look at
all the plays I can make. I get I'm getting knocked,
I'm Superman throwing. I'm making these crazy plays where I'm
like doing all this stuff and it makes all the highlights.

(26:40):
And that's an intoxicating feeling from a quarterback. Look at me, go,
I'm playing the quarterback at the height of the profession, Like,
how could you not want to do that all the time?
But you have to figure out there's certain times, and
as he gets older, he's just gonna have to much
more often hit the button of don't do it, don't

(27:01):
just throw it away, get rid of the ball, don't
be back there running around trying to play the hero
on second down.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
In September, in Week two.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Right, like you've got no, no, no, no no. And
I'm not saying that on this play. I'm saying in general,
we were talking about the style of play here. Sure,
we're talking about the big picture style of play where
Joe is a creator and he does all these magical
things when he gets out there.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
It's hard to coach that. I'm how do you coach that,
Adam Go.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
I don't know, but I do know that Joe has
done a good job of evolving his game over the years,
and I think you can ask him to a smaller percentage, understand,
to pick your spots a little more specifically with that stuff,
rather than as much as he currently because there's no
running from this, like this is Joe's thing the rest

(27:51):
of his career. Yes, when yes, when you miss three
of the first six years, this follows you. Yes, the
rest of your career, whether he's playing here elsewhere, Yes,
it's gonna be. Anybody employing Joe is gonna wonder about
getting him through the season healthy for the rest of
his career. It's not gonna go away when he gets older, Okay,

(28:12):
and fair or unfair however that is, it's just the truth.
So no matter how much he chooses to a smaller
percentage of this or more under center or less of
trying to create or any of this stuff. He is
still gonna be somebody that you're gonna worry about his
propensity to get hurt.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's just the nature of we is.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
So there's no taking that out of the game. There's
no taking that out of the Joe Burrow conversation.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
It just isn't I just as you have, I've watched
every snap of his NFL career. I can't tell you
that I've ever thought he's being reckless. I certainly have
believed at times that maybe the team is reckless. I've
believed at times like he's on the run too much

(28:58):
and he's being hit too much. But I've never watched
him and thought he's being reckless. Like yeah, And so
that's when I when I when I see corners of
the fan base aim the criticism in him, I think, like,
all right, what have I missed here? I see a
guy who's you know, he did one in Cleveland where

(29:19):
he avoided the safety, right, I mean, and that was
a huge play in the game, Like that's the sort
of thing he does. Well. There are yeah, time and place,
time and place. But I just and maybe I look
at it incorrectly. I've never watched him and thought, Joe
is doing unnecessarily reckless stuff.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Do you no, I'm unnecessarily no.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
But again, it's it's when I hear hero ball, that's
what I think of. He's being reckless. When I think
of hero ball, I think of basketball players who are
doing reckless taking reckless shots. I've never watched Joe and
thought to myself, this guy, this guy's playing recklessly.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
You know you didn't think that in preseason in Washington.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I thought that I was on the staff for having
him out there. But I mean, okay, you know what
I mean. Fine, that's a good example. He's running back.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
We're not now, Joe, right, it's August, Joe.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Okay, And I feel like that that is a good example.
And there can be there.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
Can be moments, there can be moments. I just feel
like I kind of feel like it's September, Joe. But
but their thing would be and and Pitch literally said
this to us yesterday, how do you know which play
is gonna be the play that would have changed the
game that didn't change the game.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
And we because you've seen that over time.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's it's this is why this is so hard, yes,
because you can't.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
This is who he is, it's what makes him great. Yes,
And but you're saying, but what if it's not sustainable.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
His greatest strength could be creating his greatest weakness right
now in that it's it's keeping him off the field.
I don't know that there's a schematic thing here that's
gonna totally that's gonna change anything other than good luck
with a lot of this stuff like that. There's no

(31:04):
place or no situation that this doesn't exist. If Joe
got traded too, the Eagles tomorrow right and play behind
the greatest line and all this stuff, they're worried about
the same things that the Bengals are worried about. And
that's just part of the equation of who he is. Historically,

(31:26):
everyone hopes that he ends up with this career that
we all say, man, remember those first six years, how
unlucky they were, And then the rest of it's like
Drew Brees, right, and he just plays and plays and plays,
and I just think he's gonna have to have some
introspection and maybe he comes out of that thinking, no,

(31:47):
I've been unlucky.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
I'm gonna keep playing the way that I'm playing. I'm
not changing a darn thing.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Or maybe he goes in and says, I probably do
need to make some adjustments in only and he knows
the best ways to do that of X, Y, Y,
and Z to try to avoid a certain percentage of punishment.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
That I take. Whatever that is.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Everybody, a lot of smart people in that building, including Joe,
need to get together and say is let's have a
let's talk about this. But that's what's going to have
to happen next off season, and I'll be curious to
see what the results are.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
All Right, we are insanely laid. Paul Danner Junior on
Twitter at Paul Danner Junior. We're at Oakley Greens. Paul's
here told four o'clock. I'm here till six. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station SINCY three sixty with
Tony Pike. Do we want to move on? They gonna
have to keep going and Boston Elmore, I think you
should continue to let me keep going there.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
SINCY three sixty Tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Traffic from the.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
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The future of cancer care is here. Call five one, three,
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(33:12):
southbound seventy five roadwork between Ronald Reagan Highway and Norwood Lateral.
I'm at ezelic with traffic. This report a sponsored.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
It is eleven away from four o'clock. This is ESDN
fifteen thirty. We are broadcasting from Holy Greens, the home
of Bengo. Bengo now every Thursday is starting an eight
right here at Oakley Greens. They have football themed bingo
which you can win some autograph Bengals gears, some gift cards,
and obviously the Thursday night football game is going to

(33:42):
be happening. You could watch the Dolphins and Bills while
you're playing Bengo. This Thursday at eight o'clock. This is
one of those days I wish you were here for
three hours because I've barely scratched the surface. We've done
two seconds.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Look, I mean it's it's I mean, I'll stick around
for an extra if you need me to.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
I mean, so you see how I did that there. Yeah,
that's that's a trick. I just it is.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
It's not your normal trick. It's actually a variation of
your trick. Yeah, of that, you know, if I can
keep you after this break, I mean live on air.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, So basically put, it's like saying to somebody, you
know they have tickets, Man, I can use some tickets
for the game. Yeah, you don't ask them, but then
they're like, oh, I got tickets. Same thing, Like, boy,
I could really wish I had you here for a
longer time. And then you know, because you're not going
to do the three hours, but it's like I could
do one more segment. We'll have you a four twenty.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, we used to. This used to be a bit
in my family. Every time we would go over to
my grandmother's house, you could we would stay there all day,
ten hours, and at the end she'd wave by and
be like, come when you can come back, when you
can stay a little longer, like really like it just
nap every single time. It wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter.
But I'm here for you. What you got next, Let's
let's well check them Mark, Let's let's do this. Let's

(34:54):
check the boxes. We'll do this quickly.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Just my little list of my little topics here, since
we got to be quick. Here, let's talk about what
they haven't haven't done at quarterback. So if you woke
up this morning hoping to find out that they traded
for Jamis Winston or convinced Tom Brady to come out
of retirement, or traded for Kirk Cousins to be the
quarterback this weekend, none of those things are gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Would Tom Brady be able to be in the production
meetings with the opponent every week if he was your quarterback?

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Man, I got all sorts of issues with that, Like
I'm a Tom Brady fan, all sorts of issues with
the idea. Dudes in a suit wearing the headset like,
and then he's gonna be calling games and in production
meetings with teams. The Raiders are gonna be playing. This
is what Burrow can do while he's out. He can
get a TV gig.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, okay, and then just get in all the production teams,
whoever the Bangal, whoever the Bengals are playing, He's in
their production meetings. Then he just comes back and he
sits there on the headset and just tells them what
plays are gonna do very quickly.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
One of my questions yesterday was does he still have
to buy the offensive line Christmas gifts? Yes? No, No,
two games didn't protect him. Huh huh wow, naughty list.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Wow, what interesting predicament would Jake will be taking care
of that?

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
So today's today's Oh yeah, Brett.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Rippan is gonna be the backup in Sean Clifford from
saying next. They've signed him and Mike White played against
him for the Jets a few years ago. So no,
jamis no Andy Dalton reunion. No.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
The name that I actually thought might happen would be
Tyler Huntley off of the Ravens practice. He's on the
practice squad for the Ravens. But I mean, he's played
a decent amount in recent years, and he played okay
when he has serviceable like a little more experience, like
Mike White doesn't have a lot of recent experience.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Sean Clifford has very very animal.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
It is just to give somebody with a little bit
more experience behind him. But no, I mean, you know,
once again, we get the guy that played really good
against the Bengals that at one time.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
I gotta be honest with you, if it's any of
those dudes or frankly, anybody from the street or even
anybody acquired from another team, things toast anyways, Like it
doesn't matter. Like if you reach this level, you can
forget it. My eggs are in the Jake Browning basket. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
absolutely they are. And I mean there was nothing that

(37:11):
was going to change in Let me tell you something.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, those three names that you just mentioned are gonna
get snaps this year. One of those three is gonna
get snaps this year at some point.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
In fifteen more games more games one hell yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
I mean the idea that Browning's definitely gonna gonna be
the guy and be in for every snap the rest
of the year is far from guaranteed. So you better
get comfortable with that.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
This is why it kills me that des Rider was
so bad during the preseason.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, because he could be one snap away, I'd have
my jersey, baby.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, he all said, right, Paul has agreed to hang
tight with me till four to twenty, and I will
not convince you to stay after that. Very generous with
your time as always. All right, I'm happy to hep.
We're at Oakley Greens. It's a steven away from four o'clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.
The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center has the most comprehensive
blood cancer center in the nation. The future of cancer
care is here. Call five one three five eighty five UCCC.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
This report thirty.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
All right, what's up? It's five minutes after four o'clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty on Molegor. We are broadcasting
as we do every Tuesday from Oakley Greens. All the sports,
all the time, all at Oakley Greens, no matter the
season or the sport. You know, the Reds are still
in it. Two out twelve to go Reds game tonight.
Beautiful evening post up and watch Reds game here thirty

(38:57):
more than thirty TVs. Oakley Greens is located at Oakley
Station right off I seventy five Movie Theater. By the way,
tons of convenient and free parking right here on site.
You can occupy your time with mini golf, with cornhole,
with ping pong arcade. There's an indoor bar, an outdoor bar,

(39:17):
you can rent cabanas, and a great place obviously to
come here for the Bengals game on Sunday against the
Minnesota Vikings, who have apparently signed a familiar face, Paul
Danner Junior. Still here. I'm still here, the first ever
four o'clock hold over for Paul. Actually, it's the second
time I've done this. You've done this before, You've guilted me.
Dez Ritter is signing with the Vikings apparently, how about that?

(39:37):
So does this mean? What does this mean for you?
Are you torn now? No? I mean, first of all,
if the idea is Dez is going to teach the
Vikings the Bengals place, he didn't look like he knew
them when he was here. Yeah, I hope it work.
Dez is goes without saying I'm a huge fan, and
so I hope it works out. I cannot imagine des

(39:58):
is going to have a major role in s Day's battle.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I think his major role will will be whatever they
can get out of.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Him in the next twenty four hours. Well, good luck
to them and good luck to him. I'm not getting
a Minnesota Vikings des Ritter Jersey.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Is des Ridders still on the Vikings in two weeks
is the question.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
I'm not sure des Ritter is going to be on
the Vikings on Monday morning. They might not be on
the team on Sunday. He'll take it. No, nothing wrong
with the check. So a few sort of leftover issues
related to Joe Burrow the construction of the team. Many
have defaulted to, well, this is what you get when

(40:36):
you throw all your money at Higgins and Hendrickson right,
specifically T Higgins. And that's fine if if that's the
criticism you want to make. Number One, the timing of it.
You touched on this with Jay and I on your
podcast today, Like, by their own admission, what they did
with Jamar and T, it kept him from being as
active as we thought they would be elsewhere on the team.

(40:57):
They ended up having to pay more money to Jamar
and T than they would have had they gotten those
deals done earlier. Also, my counter to that is, like,
what about all the years were Joe and Jamar and
T were under rookie contracts, they spend money on the
offensive line and it didn't work. But what do you
say to someone who says that what happened to Joe
Burrow is at least partially a result of how they

(41:17):
constructed the roster and the faulty way that they did
it in devoting so much money to one position. That's
part of it. I mean, I don't you know there's
a pie.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
When it's a part of it. It's not the biggest part.
But I think it's true that when you decide that
you are going to have a second receiver making thirty
million dollars, you are sacrificing parts of your team that
are on the line of scrimmage because that's where that

(41:55):
money would have gone out. Was there some magical guard
or they would have gotten or whatever, you know, who
knows what they would have done with the money, but
I would say more than likely at least some big
portion of it would have been directed to the trenches,
and probably a part of it to your offensive line.
Having more money to spend there, I think they felt,

(42:17):
I'm telling you what they felt. I feel like they
felt hamstrung in what they could spend on their offensive
line in that period of time due to everything they
were doing with the receivers and the unknowns of what
they were trying to do with Trey Hendrickson. That goes
back to not having a plan and being proactive and
executing it before any of that stuff happened. So I
think the execution of it is the part of the problem.

(42:39):
And yeah, the philosophy of it is part of the problem.
I mean, that's it is partially what you get what
you pay for there. If you want better offensive line play,
you could have gotten thirty million dollars from there, and
we could be talking about Mitch Tinsley's wide receiver too.
I don't know, like maybe yeah, or josevash getting getting

(42:59):
maybe oh see, lost gets more time, more opportunity or
guess whatever. Like you're you're coming up with your other
wide receiver too, but you feel like you're doing it
with u uh, you know, thirty million dollars put more
into the trenches and that's the trade off, sure, or picks.
Maybe there's more picks that are in there, or maybe
you have Tate Ratledge and Dylan Fairchild and Demetrius Knight,

(43:21):
Like I don't whatever that looks like yes, Yes, that's
a that's a part of it.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
If if your decision, if you're going to take that
and say, okay, there's the criticism I'm lobbing at the Bengals.
Does that get aimed at the organization or does it
go to jail because people will say, well, Joe's gotten
what he's wanted.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, I think I would lob that more. I mean,
the Bengals are inevitably the ones.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
That do make the decision. I mean, hey, they can
tell him no. The problem with that one is with
the Higgins piece of this.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
The problem with that one is they don't want to
what this wasn't about that, This was about Jamar Chase,
that this was Jamar and Joe and t becoming this
package deal because they didn't want to blow up anything
with Jamar. But the Tea thing was now with Jamar,
they wanted to end that, They wanted to squash that.
They wanted to make Jamar the highest paid non quarterback

(44:12):
in football and get that deal done. Now they had
to do it with Tea as a part of it.
And and and I wasn't you know, we go back
and forth on this over the years, on which side
of it you ended up on I think it changes
time went on, and I was fine with it. It's
also why I was team Trey Hendrickson, and that's fully

(44:32):
understanding how he has closed out two games.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
And what he would do.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
That's not I'm just saying you needed to take the
money and have it be in the trenches somehow. You
needed to figure out other answers in there somehow if
you felt like you had to spend all this money
on to not be that top heavy, right and if
you were talking about that versus paying Trey a long

(44:58):
term deal, well get younger, get draft picks, spending free
agency to add two or three five to ten million
dollar players inside of your trenches, whether it be at
guard or you know, go sign Kevin Zeitler instead of
Lucas Patrick and you feel better. You feel better about
everything that's happening in there, Like that's what you could

(45:18):
have done.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
But you think, looking back, with the benefit of hindsight
and what we know now, that that was their biggest misstep,
not trading Trey, understanding his role in winning the game
on on on Sunday and the week before.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Maybe I mean that in the one that the one
that I might have done, and I understand what he is.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
I just you know, it became harder.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
When you felt like, okay, we are Joe Jamar and
t well, where does the where does the rest of
it come from? Where do you get younger and get
more swings at the draft to hit in there and
to find those fine those picks. I just think if
you could have gotten a second round pick and cleared

(46:04):
his money and used that elsewhere plus the money you
are I mean thirty million dollars again with Trey right there,
plus whatever pick you would have gotten, and using that
thirty million dollars during free agency and having that settled
before free agency so you didn't have to.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Be like, can we spend? Can we not? I don't
know what we have.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
If you could have just been clean on that and
had those things taken care of before you ever got
to that, and say this is what we're doing, this
is our path forward, I think you could have felt
like you would have had a more well rounded team
and that that probably looks like another certainly a five

(46:45):
to ten million dollar guard and probably a pick and
a player on your defensive line or some can combination.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Of that is probably what that all.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Looks like together that said, I mean, this is the
way they went forward with it, and they didn't you
do the other things you also could have done, even
going forward with that plan to create an extra space
to find a better solution inside as well. I mean,
there's a lot of missteps, but I certainly think that's

(47:14):
one that you have to talk about when you're talking
about where did all where did the money go?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
I heard it on our morning show that we carry
on ESPN Radio yesterday morning. The suggestion made that this
is an opportunity for the Bengals to organizationally kind of
hit a reset button and go ahead and trade tray,
and go ahead and find a taker for tea and
decide that we're going to be the team that invests
resources into other areas. I think when you're two and oh,

(47:41):
the idea that they're going to hit the reset button
on the season is ridiculous. But that is out there.
So what would you say to someone who's like, look, this,
as unfortunate as this is, this is a chance to
kind of redo how you build your roster and where
you spend your money. I would direct them with your

(48:02):
face tells me the answer. I would direct.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Them to the trade deadline in twenty nineteen when they
were winless.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Isn't that when everybody went to Switzerland or something, right.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
And they could have unloaded aging prospects that weren't in
their future. You know, Adkins, I think you had the
aj Green situation happening at that point, Andy dal Andy Dalton, Yeah,
you had all players that could have been useful, could
have loaded up on picks you were winless.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Did I mention that.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
A and and just said hard reset, Let's grab some
picks for these guys that we know aren't in our future.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
They want to win games. They don't want to feel like.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
It looks like they're not trying to win games every
single week of every single year, and they're not going
to give up on a season and they're certainly not
going to give up on one when they're starting too
and oh right now and at this deadline whatever that load.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
There's there's very few.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Scenarios that that I see them doing anything like that.
The Hendrickson one, I mean, if it is a parent,
Joe's not coming back.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
The offense is just not good enough, right, they know it.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
This team isn't going anywhere You're and you have to
entertain Hendrickson calls at that point, there's no doubt about it,
because you know what it's gonna be next year. But
I just don't think that they'll pull the trigger. Knowing
who they are and with who they have been, maybe
that changes. They would certainly be out of character from

(49:31):
what we've kind of seen, but you know, I just
I don't see it.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
My take on the team this year coming into the
season was they would go ten and seven had they
won that game on Sunday with Joe Burrow. I would
probably still feel that way at two to zero, but
start to entertain eleven or twelve wins. Still, I think
they're gonna win eight or nine games, and I think

(49:58):
Jake Browning is gonna be good enough for us to
spend the season thinking about their playoff chances. I am
going to operate under the assumption, and I hope I'm wrong.
Joe doesn't play this year because three months best case,
I never assume best case. Best case is never most likely.
I hope to God he's back for the last three games.

(50:18):
I'm gonna assume he's not. I think Jake Browning is
good enough and the team around him is good enough
to be interesting, to be relevant and to stay in
the hunt. I don't think he and they are going
to be good enough to get there to be one
of those seven teams, but I wouldn't be surprised if

(50:39):
they are, because the threshold to make the postseason is
very low. The bottom of the AFC is not great,
the middle of the AFC doesn't look good. That's obviously
a week two assessments, so things can change. So my
guess as they finish with I'll say nine wins because
they are too and zero. Maybe nine's good enough, maybe
it's not. That's kind of where I am. I think.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
I think it's more likely that they win nine or
more than they lose then they win six. Agreed, Yes,
I think there. I can more see it coming together
under Jake and this team and then winning a decent
amount of games and winning a few more than they
should have already.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Two and zero. Yeah, I think they're they're starting. They're
not starting from oh and two. No, I mean they're
starting from a place of strength from a win loss perspective.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, And so I can see them getting to that
level more than I see it totally falling apart and
them just being truly awful. But again, the thing with
Jake Browning going forward is you can win games with
him unless the attrition starts to happen around him.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
He needs the.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Ps Burrow would make up for it when when t
Higgins goes down for a couple of weeks or Jamar's
out or Amarus Mims gets hurt or whatever, like Joe
can make up for that, I don't. You can only
sustain so much more attrition here around Jake Browning offensively,
He's gonna need the pieces to go out there and

(52:12):
make it go. And that's unrealistic to think that you're
gonna have that. Like there's gonna be some games that
Jake's gonna have to go out there and win it.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
This defense is gonna have to prove to be.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Any good, which we don't even know that it's gonna
get to that level. So I just you know, there's
a lot to happen there. But I still think that
I can see the better case before I can see
the the disaster case. But of course you're you know,
you're one Jake Browning injury away, Like well, okay, here
comes the two thousand and eight Bengals four eleven and

(52:43):
one with the you know, with with injury riddled season situation.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
That's that's not a year that I wanted to compare
the twenty twenty five season to the Ryan Fitzpatrick year. Yeah,
the tie where Donovan McNabb didn't know the games could
end and ties, that's not where we wanted to go.
We don't want to go there. No, it's all very surreal,
I will guess, And I'm not convinced the defense is
significantly better. They were certainly opportunistic against Jacksonville. But I'd

(53:12):
feel better about the team's fortunes moving forward if I
felt better about that unit. But if I assume there
will be some improvement there, I think Jake Browning will
go seven and eight. If he starts fifteen games, that's
a big give. And maybe he starts the next twelve,
keeps him afloat. Joe does come back, and it's great,
But I can't I can't put myself there where I'm

(53:35):
counting on that qind yet.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Yeah, that's I think that's who he is. I think
that's I think that's fair. I think we'll learn a
ton over this stretch. I mean this, we were going
to learn a ton over this next stretch. Wait if
Joe Burrow was playing or not. But over this stretch
where it's tough games, tough situations, five straight playoff teams
from last year, A Thursday nighter against the Steelers, you know,

(53:58):
Packers who've been great, Bryans who put up fifty two
against Chicago, like there's just Brian Flores.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
You're gonna learn a.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Lot over the next five games that will really determine
whether you should just totally punt on this season or
say they're actually pretty.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Interesting one more because you've been generous with your time.
This has been viewed as the hot seed season for Zach.
So if Joe Burrow plays seventeen games and they're on
the outside looking in, you're not gonna find anybody who
wants him back. As the head coach does, not having
Joe for a large chunk of the season at minimum

(54:35):
give him a pass no matter how this season unfolds.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
I think it gives him slack. I think it you
cut slack to Zach Taylor. I don't think it gives
him a pass. Okay, I think you still have to
have a team that's buying in you. You still have
to have the locker room I think you have to
go out there and have some level of success with Jacobs.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
It falls apart. They go four and thirteen. That's an
indictment on Zach.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
It doesn't help, right, Yeah, No, I think I think
there's still pressure. There is still gonna be pressure there
for him to keep this team going even without Burrow.
I think the level of what he needs to get
to changes. The level of rationalization that I think he'll
get from the front office whenever that conversation happened changes.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I mean, that's just the truth.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
And I and I felt like he was gonna get
you know, it's still Mike Brown. It's still extreme patience.
He's still the guy that has in you know, it
wasn't that long ago that they were right there at
the precipice. Like, I just think they still feel like
they are buying into what he's doing there, and so

(55:44):
you gotta I'm not gonna say anything in guarantees there,
but I think it changes the conversation a lot. I
think it changes the number you need to reach. I
don't think this isn't a playoff or bus which it
felt like you were in that kind of area a
little bit. If you had Joe, But I do think
it's uh, it still has to look good. It still

(56:05):
has to look good, it still has to keep relevant.
It can't totally fall apart. If it does, then then yeah,
then I think the conversation starts up again.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
But I still don't see it.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
But there's a long way to go and a lot
of things will happen between now and then.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Thank you for staying late. Enjoy Minneapolis by the way.
Five oh five. Today, Moller High School's Deuce McBride will
be on the show Let's Go. Yeah, there you go. Now,
you know it's gonna be a good segment. I needed
to do something just for me, just for you, one
for you. Yeah, New York. Are you guys gonna talk
about just the Knicks mostly? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I'm sure Deuce is a Bengals fan. Ever had turf toe? Like,
I mean, we could, but we're gonna We're gonna talk
about his off seasons. She's written a children's book. Really, yeah,
he's The Knicks are getting ready to go overseas to
play some games in the preseason and uhampionship parade. I

(57:00):
think in New York right around mid June. See if
he's made plans for that, molar X on Friday, molar
X on Friday. But Pap get his thoughts on that. Yeah,
there you go. I love it. Do one for you.
I do that.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Sometimes we just have somebody who I like on the
show and just be like, look, I know you guys
expect certain things here.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I just this one's for me. We had Charles Oakley
on the show last year and I just said, like,
this one is for me. Yeah, I get it this
so uh, thank you as always, no problem. Read Paul Danner,
Junior at the Athletic dot Com. Catch the podcast latest
episode out today, The Growler with Jay Morrison and this
week's episode, or in today's episode, I should say, with

(57:38):
myself and a jar of moodlifting gummys, We're at Oakley Greens.
Your game day home turf kickoff starts at Oakley Greens.
It's twenty four after four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station, Cincinnati's