December 9, 2025 • 21 mins
Kyle Schwarber isn't signing with the Reds. Jeff Carr of the Locked on Reds joined us to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
All right, here we go, eight after four. This is
ESPN fifteen to Foager. Thank you for listening. We are
late to the hour because I.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Don't know how to read a clock.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We're at Oakley Greens in Oakley, the home of your
office workplace, holiday happy hour. There's no better place to
post up and have a cold one. In fact, our
favorite bartender in the city is a young lady by
the name of Lauren, who is walking towards us, and
she knows she reads my mind. I'm ready for a
cold one right now, right, it's a short show. We're
(00:32):
done at five point thirty. I'm ready for a cold one.
That's the staff here is so good, it's almost telepathic.
They don't need to ask you could I get you
a beer? They just they know. So Lauren's gonna bring
one over. Maybe Drew By's gonna have one. We'll see.
We're done at five thirty. UK basketball, let's get right
to it. Kyle Schwerber is not going to be a Red.
He's re signing with the Phillies five years, one hundred
(00:53):
and fifty million dollars. Jeff Carr locked on Red's podcast.
You know it's it's because I was on your podcast week.
I really late last week started to think, you know what,
this may happen. So I kind of blame you for
feeling disappointed.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
No, I agree with you. I started to feel this
way because you started to see a whole bunch of
things come together, albeit none of them were the most
important thing, which was the one thing that the Reds
just didn't want to offer up.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So he signs with the Phillies. Re signs with the
Phillies reportedly five years, one hundred and fifty mil. Now
it's being reported Ken Rosenthal had this. The Reds offer
was five years, one twenty five. What's your reaction to that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I feel like the Reds were bidding against some sort
of ghost, or they didn't feel as though they were
bidding against teams with a lot of money, because all
reports that I had seen were looking at about thirty
million dollars a year, And so the Reds looked at
that and said, okay, we'll go twenty five. And they
come in almost an entire year's worth of money, less
(01:59):
than what the Phillies offered. And we said all along,
we're like local. Yes, love the team growing up. Yes,
obvious connection. Yes, but the money's got to make sense,
and in this case, the dollars just didn't make sense
because reportedly even the Baltimore Orioles had matched the Phillies offer,
and yet the Reds were unable to.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
If you make that kind of offer five years, one
hundred and twenty five mil, are you really being serious
about your pursuit of Kyle Schwarten.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
No, because I don't believe that that was ever going
to be on the table. I think that there's a
very high likelihood that the Pirates were about the exact
same offer. And we all know when we hear that
the Pittsburgh Pirates are in on a player, we know
this is posturing. This is them showing their fans that
(02:49):
they're trying. Kind of feels like we're looking at the
exact same at the Cincinnati Reds team. I get it.
They understood. They say that, you know, we only have
X amount of dollars all this other stuff, but this
was an opportunity to change the narrative, to make yourself legitimate.
And they scoffed at it and they said, Nope, it's
too rich for our blood. We got to move on.
(03:11):
And they said, this is our offer, take it or
leave it, and of course Kyle Schwarber got better offers.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
In your opinion for the Reds understanding their financial way
of doing things. For lack of a better way of
putting it, would five years on one hundred and fifty
million dollars for Kyle Schwarber been worth it?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I think so, because you're definitely getting at least two,
maybe three of those years of elite performance in the lineup,
something that the Reds have not had, especially in the
power realm. I mean, we're talking about a guy, you know,
former manager Dusty Baker said that he could have hit
seventy two in Great American Ballpark. I don't doubt that
there's some validity to that, but he certainly would have
(03:54):
hit fifty, probably would have hit sixty. And we're talking
about a guy whose pursuit of career home run marks
that would put him near the five hundred mark by
the end of this this this tenure. So I just
don't understand why they're going to kind of turn their
nose up at five million dollars more per year. This
(04:14):
is actually very similar to the reports that we heard
that the Reds had an offer on the table with
the Diamondbacks back at the trade deadline to get a
Euhenio Suarez, and the reason that they chose not to
pursue the offer anymore is because the Diamondbacks wanted somewhere
around four million dollars more in cash back in the deal.
And so it feels as though the one thing that
(04:36):
is untouchable in this organization is money.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
So no, Kyle Schwarber, what's planned B? I guess the
question is what should be planned B.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What should be planned B is Pete Alanzo. But what
isn't planned B is Pete Alonzo, Cody Bellinger, Kyle Tucker,
the top shelf, right, the top shelf is just it's
a foreign concept to the Cincinnati Reds. And in fact,
I think keing Rosenthal even reported in that same article
where he mentioned what the Reds offer was that the
(05:09):
Reds are not in on any of the other big
free agents. I think that there was a report that
said that the Reds are linked to Cody Bellinger. I
think the Reds are linked to Cody Bellinger like I
am linked to the owner of Skyline, because I was
just there the other day to get me a chicken giledo.
And I think that that's what we're talking about here,
(05:31):
Like maybe they came up in conversation a little bit,
but I don't think that there's any real interest there,
or at least any legitimate interest in giving the money
that they were going to give to Kyle Schwarber to
any one of these other guys. Because the one thing
that worried me the most MO is that it felt
like this connection between the Reds and Schwarbert was due
(05:53):
to one reason and one reason only, and it's because
he was local. And I think that we will be
talking about the red it is it is, But I
really don't see any other reason as to why this
feels like it was more legitimate than the Reds getting
any one of the other guys on the top shelf.
(06:13):
I think we're going to be topying about a second tier,
third tier guy that will hopefully bounce back next year.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
If you're interested in Kyle Schwarber, I don't understand why
you would have no interest in Pete Alonzo, Right, it
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
He's younger, first, he's younger, better war wise anyway.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Right, He's durable as hell. I mean, he's played in
I think one hundred and fifty two games every year
since he became a full time member of the New
York Mets.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And plays a defensive position.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, plays defense plays. I do not understand for the
life of me, why if you are interested enough in
Kyle Schwarber to at least give him a figure that
you wouldn't just do the same with Peter Alonzo. Now,
that may not reflect with Pee Alonzo's serious pursuit, just
like it might not reflect serious pursuit five for one
(07:16):
for Kyle Schwarber. I need somebody who is much smarter
than me to explain why if you have interest in
adding Kyle Schwarber to your team, which recognizes not just
that he's from Middletown, but on some level the fact
that they could use a guy who could hit the
ball out of the ballpark, why would they have no
interest at all in Peter Alonzo.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I feel like they absolutely should, and in a apples
d apples comparison with the other teams in the league
that are going for the exact same thing that they're
go for, that's what we should expect as red scenes.
But knowing what we know about this organization, for basically
the entirety of my life, unless everything else seems to
(07:58):
collesse into this perfect scenario to bring a guy to Cincinnati,
i e. The King Grify Juniors of the world. I
just don't understand how the Reds actually do that, because
they've never proven that in my lifetime, to go get
a guy like pee Alonzo who has no other connection
other than we offered him money and he agreed to it,
(08:19):
because it should be that way, Mom, and I think
the Reds would be able to transform themselves in a
very similar fashion if they were to sign pee Alonzo.
But there's a very good chance that they turn around
and they say, we give you five years, one twenty
five and the Mets give pee Alonzo four years, one
(08:41):
hundred and sixty or one hundred and fifty whatever. The
math ends up being that it's you know, closer to
thirty million than what the Reds offer, And I think
that that gets that done, and Pee Alonzo stays with
the Mets or goes to the Yankees or goes to
the Red Sox or something like that. It just it
feels as though the Reds continually have this idea of
how much a player should cost, and that doesn't have
(09:04):
any bearing on how much other teams value players, and
that makes no sense to me.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Jeff Carr locked on Red's podcast for another few minutes. Okay,
So if it's not Kyle Schwarber, and then it's not
that next rung of Pete Alonzo Cody Bellinger types, and
you're still holding out hope that they acquire a player
via free agency, specifically, who would make sense who's in
(09:31):
that next tier.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So I'm looking at two different guys who would satisfy
the middle of the order idea, albeit one of them
is with power and one of them is just a
very steady hitter. Ryan O'Hearn, left handed guy, can play
first base pretty well, decent in the outfield, but not
like really grude, you look at him more as the
first baseman. But he would be a guy that you
could put behind Eli de la Cruz and feel good about.
(09:55):
And then Reeth Hopkins, so we had seen in Milwaukee
who has the power, albeit it has health concerns. Both
of those guys feel like they fall squarely within the
sweet spot of what the Reds end up doing. I
just I really want it to be a ped Alanzo,
but I just don't think they're going to be in
that market.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
There is there a slugger that realistically could be had
via trade. And when I say realistically, like if I'm
trading away a slugger, h I either have a chance
to win with that slugger and I need you to
give me something that maintains my chances of winning, or
(10:38):
I have no chance of winning with that slugger and
you're gonna have to overwhelm me with prospects, Like, is
there a like a middle of the order beat that
can give this team some pop that realistically would make
sense as a trade target.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Looking at there's a guy that I would prefer the
Reds go for, but I think that this would be
a guy who would almost go in front of Elie
de la Cruz rather than behind them. He's Jared Durant
from the Boston Red Sox. Not necessarily a slugger per se, like,
not a home run guy, but definitely a really good
hitter all around. The Red Sox reportedly want to move
(11:14):
one of their outfielders. The problem is, I think that
will require one of the major league starting pitchers, which
once again the Reds have decided that are at least
reportedly saying that they don't want to trade from. But
I believe that you would have to give up somebody
like Brady Singer or Nicolodolo or somebody like that in
a deal for Jared Duran, which goes back to the
(11:36):
reason of why we were so excited about Kyle Schwarber
and that it required only money and you didn't have
to get rid of anybody in your organization to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I mean, and look, I don't want to trade any
of those starting pitchers because I think the most overblown
thing is, well, the Reds have a surplus. Well, if
they did, they wouldn't have kind of run out at
the end of the season last year. But okay, fine,
if they're not going to pay top dollar for a
free agent slugger, then they're unless it's just scrape the
bargain basement, try to turn over stones and find hidden gems.
(12:08):
Then if it's addressed that area via trade, you're almost
gonna have You're gonna have to trade from your place
of strength. Well, I don't think they have a surplus
of starting pitching. Clearly, starting pitching is their strength.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Right, And I also think that, I mean, because Boston's
looking for and it's gonna be at the top of
the rotation. Kind of feel like Sunny Grades their number
two right now, and they love Garrett Crochet, but if
they could get themselves another another ace to go alongside them,
I think that's probably who they're looking for, which then
brings in the Hunter Green thing, which Terry Francona shut
(12:42):
down yesterday. But I think that you're right, like it
feels as though the Reds have to do one of
two things. They need to either go spend money for
a marquee bat on the free agent's list, or they
need to spend the prospects or the player necessarily necessary
(13:02):
in trade to acquire that big bat. But it feels
as though the Reds are telling us that they're not
gonna do either one of those things, and that they
will continue to look for upgrades the way they always have.
And that's what worries me the most about the off
season moving forward, because it doesn't feel like it feels
like they're going to go out They're going to sign
(13:22):
Scott Barlow, Brett sueterback, and they might even sign Miguel
Andrew harback and say, there we go. We had an
off season and they just run back the roster that
they had from last year. I just I.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Worry that on some level we're just going to see
another revolving door of Will Benson's Jacob Herdabis's new version
for resigns, like and look, man, they made the postseason
last year, but offensively they need it was so obvious
(13:55):
what they should do. And for me, man like, I
get it. It's not my money. For me, it's add
the slugger, send a message, enjoy the goodwill that comes
from it, and rebrand by extending your budget and paying
top dollar for Kyle Schwarber. I've made this point. I've
done it on your podcast, I've done it on this show.
(14:17):
There's a major difference between not having the money for
something and not being willing to go outside your budget.
This because of all of the tangible pure baseball benefits,
but all of the ancillary benefits. Kyle Schwarber and Pete
Alonso are the type of players that are worth going
outside your budget for, and in the absence of that,
(14:38):
I do not trust them. Despite whatever goodwill they may
have built by qualifying for the postseason last year, I
do not trust them to solve this glaring issue by
doing a piecemeal or doing it with bargain basement guys
or even executing trades. And so that to me is
why this is as unrealistic as it may have seen.
(14:59):
It's still disappointing for those.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Reasons, right, and because making the postseason is the opening act.
I think if you look at it in the way
that everybody should, once you make it into the postseason,
all right, what are you doing next? For us? But
it feels as though we are hearing from the Reds organization,
well didn't you see what we just did? We we
made the postseedson, Yeah, we did that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So made it in game one. Sixty two is the
last seed when the postseason has never been watered down.
I don't want to diminish that as as tangible evidence
that what they're doing has worked. But it's not. I
want to win ninety seven games and run away with
the National League Central and go into the postseason able
to set up your rotation and take a week off
(15:44):
before Game one of the NLDS, And until they're in
a position to do that, until you can look at
their team and say that is a bona fide possibility,
I just don't take them serious as championship contenders. And
so maybe next year. Yet it's scrape by, barely get
in and they get hot, but scrape by and barely
get in and then get hot and not be what
(16:04):
you're hanging your hat on. And it feels to a
large degree that that's what they hang their hat on.
See what we did last year, you know what, we
won another eighty three, eighty four games. We scrape in
and then you know, who knows what's gonna happen. That
shouldn't be the goal, and yet it feels to a
large degree for a lot of fans like it is.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It is, and that's that's what the messaging seems to
be coming out of. And may I also interest you
on top of that, they like to break even on
their budget too. That's another another thing that they're really
shooting for. And it's beaten. It's beat me down. The
last well four hours, I guess is when we've heard
the news. But understanding like where the Reds were in
(16:44):
this process, where we thought they were and where they
ended up is what has kind of just flattened me
a little bit. And when you look at everything that
the Reds need to do, which isn't much, I don't
I don't feel like they've got to go get half
of a team. But if you go get a legitimate
slugger man, everybody else in the major leagues takes you seriously.
(17:07):
But that legitimate slugger is not Miguelian dr That is
a savvy footnote of a move, But it feels like
we're going to be sold that as the feature.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Frustrated.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I want to I want to bring a smile to
your face about this, but man or man shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I shouldn't be as frustrated as I am, because I
never I never looked at this as the likely outcome,
but it felt like a possible one. And it's just
such a missed opportunity. I've talked about this so much,
such a missed opportunity to send a surge of excitement
(17:52):
through your fan base, and I think there's so much
value to that that you can't necessarily immediately quantify five
or judge in dollars. And I got to a point
where I at least allowed myself to think that it
was possible, even if I acknowledged it wasn't likely. And
so maybe I'm the full and maybe maybe we're all
(18:12):
foolish for believing they could get this done and probably are, so.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I don't know what I also know too, you're you're
very much enthusiasm for wearing the name of another man
on the back of your shirt, and so I know
you were sizing yourself up for a number twelve Schwarmer jersey,
and now you have to look at a number four
noelvi Marte jersey.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I like noelve Marte. I would have bought a cop
I would have if that's what it would have taken. Hey,
you buy a jersey, we sign him. I'd have done it.
Nobody asked me, But I I just I wonder. I don't.
I don't want to. I don't want to poo poo
what they did last year, because again, like you got
to get to the postseason, you gotta, I mean, was
(19:00):
a big deal and it was fun. It was fun
watching him play those games in September, was fun watching
him play in the postseason, even if those games didn't
go well. But like my take from from the moment
game to an la ended is the next step is
the most difficult one. The next step is probably gonna
require a major acquisition to make the offense dramatically better.
(19:22):
I don't know that it's gonna come from within. That
doesn't mean there's not room for players who were on
the team last year to get better. It doesn't. That
doesn't mean that a huge reason why the Reds are
better in twenty twenty six isn't gonna come from improvement
from guys who were here a year ago. But and again,
it's just one guy. But to hear you know, well,
they're not connected to any of these other dudes. And
(19:42):
then to make the assumption, and I think it's a
fair one that they were in on Kyle Swarber because
of where he's from. Like, that's not how you run
a legitimate major League baseball team. So if Kyle Schwarber
was from Illinois, they wouldn't have been interested. Like are
you kidding me? Like that's that they were interested in
because he's from the greatest Cincinnati area. Yeah, I want
to tell you that that's totally implausible. But knowing what
(20:03):
we know about some of the things the Reds have done,
I can't.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And that's what is the most maddening, because the same
thing applies from Schwarber to Alonzo is that all you
have to do is give up some money and then
you get the guy that you need. It's not the
scenario where we were, you know, a decade ago or
twenty years ago or however long ago. Whenever they make
this big trade or that big signing, but it feels
like they still need to put pieces around that guy.
(20:29):
This is the peace that they put around the guys
they've got, but they just don't seem to want to
make that move to get that one piece. Pete Alonzo
would make this team a National League Central Division contender,
and that is what people thought whenever they were going
after Kyle Schwarber, Miguel and Andrew Harr, Ryan O'Hearn, Reese Hoskins.
(20:50):
Don't do that.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Awesome as always, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Wats that soon hopefully happier times. No, I appreciate you.
Thank you having you go.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Jeff Carr. Check out the Lockdown Reds podcast. We are
insanely late. I've been awful with time today. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty
Fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
All right, here we go, eight after four. This is
ESPN fifteen to Foager. Thank you for listening. We are
late to the hour because I.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Don't know how to read a clock.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We're at Oakley Greens in Oakley, the home of your
office workplace, holiday happy hour. There's no better place to
post up and have a cold one. In fact, our
favorite bartender in the city is a young lady by
the name of Lauren, who is walking towards us, and
she knows she reads my mind. I'm ready for a
cold one right now, right, it's a short show. We're
(00:32):
done at five point thirty. I'm ready for a cold one.
That's the staff here is so good, it's almost telepathic.
They don't need to ask you could I get you
a beer? They just they know. So Lauren's gonna bring
one over. Maybe Drew By's gonna have one. We'll see.
We're done at five thirty. UK basketball, let's get right
to it. Kyle Schwerber is not going to be a Red.
He's re signing with the Phillies five years, one hundred
(00:53):
and fifty million dollars. Jeff Carr locked on Red's podcast.
You know it's it's because I was on your podcast week.
I really late last week started to think, you know what,
this may happen. So I kind of blame you for
feeling disappointed.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
No, I agree with you. I started to feel this
way because you started to see a whole bunch of
things come together, albeit none of them were the most
important thing, which was the one thing that the Reds
just didn't want to offer up.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So he signs with the Phillies. Re signs with the
Phillies reportedly five years, one hundred and fifty mil. Now
it's being reported Ken Rosenthal had this. The Reds offer
was five years, one twenty five. What's your reaction to that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I feel like the Reds were bidding against some sort
of ghost, or they didn't feel as though they were
bidding against teams with a lot of money, because all
reports that I had seen were looking at about thirty
million dollars a year, And so the Reds looked at
that and said, okay, we'll go twenty five. And they
come in almost an entire year's worth of money, less
(01:59):
than what the Phillies offered. And we said all along,
we're like local. Yes, love the team growing up. Yes,
obvious connection. Yes, but the money's got to make sense,
and in this case, the dollars just didn't make sense
because reportedly even the Baltimore Orioles had matched the Phillies offer,
and yet the Reds were unable to.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
If you make that kind of offer five years, one
hundred and twenty five mil, are you really being serious
about your pursuit of Kyle Schwarten.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
No, because I don't believe that that was ever going
to be on the table. I think that there's a
very high likelihood that the Pirates were about the exact
same offer. And we all know when we hear that
the Pittsburgh Pirates are in on a player, we know
this is posturing. This is them showing their fans that
(02:49):
they're trying. Kind of feels like we're looking at the
exact same at the Cincinnati Reds team. I get it.
They understood. They say that, you know, we only have
X amount of dollars all this other stuff, but this
was an opportunity to change the narrative, to make yourself legitimate.
And they scoffed at it and they said, Nope, it's
too rich for our blood. We got to move on.
(03:11):
And they said, this is our offer, take it or
leave it, and of course Kyle Schwarber got better offers.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
In your opinion for the Reds understanding their financial way
of doing things. For lack of a better way of
putting it, would five years on one hundred and fifty
million dollars for Kyle Schwarber been worth it?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I think so, because you're definitely getting at least two,
maybe three of those years of elite performance in the lineup,
something that the Reds have not had, especially in the
power realm. I mean, we're talking about a guy, you know,
former manager Dusty Baker said that he could have hit
seventy two in Great American Ballpark. I don't doubt that
there's some validity to that, but he certainly would have
(03:54):
hit fifty, probably would have hit sixty. And we're talking
about a guy whose pursuit of career home run marks
that would put him near the five hundred mark by
the end of this this this tenure. So I just
don't understand why they're going to kind of turn their
nose up at five million dollars more per year. This
(04:14):
is actually very similar to the reports that we heard
that the Reds had an offer on the table with
the Diamondbacks back at the trade deadline to get a
Euhenio Suarez, and the reason that they chose not to
pursue the offer anymore is because the Diamondbacks wanted somewhere
around four million dollars more in cash back in the deal.
And so it feels as though the one thing that
(04:36):
is untouchable in this organization is money.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
So no, Kyle Schwarber, what's planned B? I guess the
question is what should be planned B.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What should be planned B is Pete Alanzo. But what
isn't planned B is Pete Alonzo, Cody Bellinger, Kyle Tucker,
the top shelf, right, the top shelf is just it's
a foreign concept to the Cincinnati Reds. And in fact,
I think keing Rosenthal even reported in that same article
where he mentioned what the Reds offer was that the
(05:09):
Reds are not in on any of the other big
free agents. I think that there was a report that
said that the Reds are linked to Cody Bellinger. I
think the Reds are linked to Cody Bellinger like I
am linked to the owner of Skyline, because I was
just there the other day to get me a chicken giledo.
And I think that that's what we're talking about here,
(05:31):
Like maybe they came up in conversation a little bit,
but I don't think that there's any real interest there,
or at least any legitimate interest in giving the money
that they were going to give to Kyle Schwarber to
any one of these other guys. Because the one thing
that worried me the most MO is that it felt
like this connection between the Reds and Schwarbert was due
(05:53):
to one reason and one reason only, and it's because
he was local. And I think that we will be
talking about the red it is it is, But I
really don't see any other reason as to why this
feels like it was more legitimate than the Reds getting
any one of the other guys on the top shelf.
(06:13):
I think we're going to be topying about a second tier,
third tier guy that will hopefully bounce back next year.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
If you're interested in Kyle Schwarber, I don't understand why
you would have no interest in Pete Alonzo, Right, it
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
He's younger, first, he's younger, better war wise anyway.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Right, He's durable as hell. I mean, he's played in
I think one hundred and fifty two games every year
since he became a full time member of the New
York Mets.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And plays a defensive position.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, plays defense plays. I do not understand for the
life of me, why if you are interested enough in
Kyle Schwarber to at least give him a figure that
you wouldn't just do the same with Peter Alonzo. Now,
that may not reflect with Pee Alonzo's serious pursuit, just
like it might not reflect serious pursuit five for one
(07:16):
for Kyle Schwarber. I need somebody who is much smarter
than me to explain why if you have interest in
adding Kyle Schwarber to your team, which recognizes not just
that he's from Middletown, but on some level the fact
that they could use a guy who could hit the
ball out of the ballpark, why would they have no
interest at all in Peter Alonzo.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I feel like they absolutely should, and in a apples
d apples comparison with the other teams in the league
that are going for the exact same thing that they're
go for, that's what we should expect as red scenes.
But knowing what we know about this organization, for basically
the entirety of my life, unless everything else seems to
(07:58):
collesse into this perfect scenario to bring a guy to Cincinnati,
i e. The King Grify Juniors of the world. I
just don't understand how the Reds actually do that, because
they've never proven that in my lifetime, to go get
a guy like pee Alonzo who has no other connection
other than we offered him money and he agreed to it,
(08:19):
because it should be that way, Mom, and I think
the Reds would be able to transform themselves in a
very similar fashion if they were to sign pee Alonzo.
But there's a very good chance that they turn around
and they say, we give you five years, one twenty
five and the Mets give pee Alonzo four years, one
(08:41):
hundred and sixty or one hundred and fifty whatever. The
math ends up being that it's you know, closer to
thirty million than what the Reds offer, And I think
that that gets that done, and Pee Alonzo stays with
the Mets or goes to the Yankees or goes to
the Red Sox or something like that. It just it
feels as though the Reds continually have this idea of
how much a player should cost, and that doesn't have
(09:04):
any bearing on how much other teams value players, and
that makes no sense to me.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Jeff Carr locked on Red's podcast for another few minutes. Okay,
So if it's not Kyle Schwarber, and then it's not
that next rung of Pete Alonzo Cody Bellinger types, and
you're still holding out hope that they acquire a player
via free agency, specifically, who would make sense who's in
(09:31):
that next tier.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So I'm looking at two different guys who would satisfy
the middle of the order idea, albeit one of them
is with power and one of them is just a
very steady hitter. Ryan O'Hearn, left handed guy, can play
first base pretty well, decent in the outfield, but not
like really grude, you look at him more as the
first baseman. But he would be a guy that you
could put behind Eli de la Cruz and feel good about.
(09:55):
And then Reeth Hopkins, so we had seen in Milwaukee
who has the power, albeit it has health concerns. Both
of those guys feel like they fall squarely within the
sweet spot of what the Reds end up doing. I
just I really want it to be a ped Alanzo,
but I just don't think they're going to be in
that market.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
There is there a slugger that realistically could be had
via trade. And when I say realistically, like if I'm
trading away a slugger, h I either have a chance
to win with that slugger and I need you to
give me something that maintains my chances of winning, or
(10:38):
I have no chance of winning with that slugger and
you're gonna have to overwhelm me with prospects, Like, is
there a like a middle of the order beat that
can give this team some pop that realistically would make
sense as a trade target.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Looking at there's a guy that I would prefer the
Reds go for, but I think that this would be
a guy who would almost go in front of Elie
de la Cruz rather than behind them. He's Jared Durant
from the Boston Red Sox. Not necessarily a slugger per se, like,
not a home run guy, but definitely a really good
hitter all around. The Red Sox reportedly want to move
(11:14):
one of their outfielders. The problem is, I think that
will require one of the major league starting pitchers, which
once again the Reds have decided that are at least
reportedly saying that they don't want to trade from. But
I believe that you would have to give up somebody
like Brady Singer or Nicolodolo or somebody like that in
a deal for Jared Duran, which goes back to the
(11:36):
reason of why we were so excited about Kyle Schwarber
and that it required only money and you didn't have
to get rid of anybody in your organization to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I mean, and look, I don't want to trade any
of those starting pitchers because I think the most overblown
thing is, well, the Reds have a surplus. Well, if
they did, they wouldn't have kind of run out at
the end of the season last year. But okay, fine,
if they're not going to pay top dollar for a
free agent slugger, then they're unless it's just scrape the
bargain basement, try to turn over stones and find hidden gems.
(12:08):
Then if it's addressed that area via trade, you're almost
gonna have You're gonna have to trade from your place
of strength. Well, I don't think they have a surplus
of starting pitching. Clearly, starting pitching is their strength.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Right, And I also think that, I mean, because Boston's
looking for and it's gonna be at the top of
the rotation. Kind of feel like Sunny Grades their number
two right now, and they love Garrett Crochet, but if
they could get themselves another another ace to go alongside them,
I think that's probably who they're looking for, which then
brings in the Hunter Green thing, which Terry Francona shut
(12:42):
down yesterday. But I think that you're right, like it
feels as though the Reds have to do one of
two things. They need to either go spend money for
a marquee bat on the free agent's list, or they
need to spend the prospects or the player necessarily necessary
(13:02):
in trade to acquire that big bat. But it feels
as though the Reds are telling us that they're not
gonna do either one of those things, and that they
will continue to look for upgrades the way they always have.
And that's what worries me the most about the off
season moving forward, because it doesn't feel like it feels
like they're going to go out They're going to sign
(13:22):
Scott Barlow, Brett sueterback, and they might even sign Miguel
Andrew harback and say, there we go. We had an
off season and they just run back the roster that
they had from last year. I just I.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Worry that on some level we're just going to see
another revolving door of Will Benson's Jacob Herdabis's new version
for resigns, like and look, man, they made the postseason
last year, but offensively they need it was so obvious
(13:55):
what they should do. And for me, man like, I
get it. It's not my money. For me, it's add
the slugger, send a message, enjoy the goodwill that comes
from it, and rebrand by extending your budget and paying
top dollar for Kyle Schwarber. I've made this point. I've
done it on your podcast, I've done it on this show.
(14:17):
There's a major difference between not having the money for
something and not being willing to go outside your budget.
This because of all of the tangible pure baseball benefits,
but all of the ancillary benefits. Kyle Schwarber and Pete
Alonso are the type of players that are worth going
outside your budget for, and in the absence of that,
(14:38):
I do not trust them. Despite whatever goodwill they may
have built by qualifying for the postseason last year, I
do not trust them to solve this glaring issue by
doing a piecemeal or doing it with bargain basement guys
or even executing trades. And so that to me is
why this is as unrealistic as it may have seen.
(14:59):
It's still disappointing for those.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Reasons, right, and because making the postseason is the opening act.
I think if you look at it in the way
that everybody should, once you make it into the postseason,
all right, what are you doing next? For us? But
it feels as though we are hearing from the Reds organization,
well didn't you see what we just did? We we
made the postseedson, Yeah, we did that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So made it in game one. Sixty two is the
last seed when the postseason has never been watered down.
I don't want to diminish that as as tangible evidence
that what they're doing has worked. But it's not. I
want to win ninety seven games and run away with
the National League Central and go into the postseason able
to set up your rotation and take a week off
(15:44):
before Game one of the NLDS, And until they're in
a position to do that, until you can look at
their team and say that is a bona fide possibility,
I just don't take them serious as championship contenders. And
so maybe next year. Yet it's scrape by, barely get
in and they get hot, but scrape by and barely
get in and then get hot and not be what
(16:04):
you're hanging your hat on. And it feels to a
large degree that that's what they hang their hat on.
See what we did last year, you know what, we
won another eighty three, eighty four games. We scrape in
and then you know, who knows what's gonna happen. That
shouldn't be the goal, and yet it feels to a
large degree for a lot of fans like it is.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It is, and that's that's what the messaging seems to
be coming out of. And may I also interest you
on top of that, they like to break even on
their budget too. That's another another thing that they're really
shooting for. And it's beaten. It's beat me down. The
last well four hours, I guess is when we've heard
the news. But understanding like where the Reds were in
(16:44):
this process, where we thought they were and where they
ended up is what has kind of just flattened me
a little bit. And when you look at everything that
the Reds need to do, which isn't much, I don't
I don't feel like they've got to go get half
of a team. But if you go get a legitimate
slugger man, everybody else in the major leagues takes you seriously.
(17:07):
But that legitimate slugger is not Miguelian dr That is
a savvy footnote of a move, But it feels like
we're going to be sold that as the feature.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Frustrated.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I want to I want to bring a smile to
your face about this, but man or man shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I shouldn't be as frustrated as I am, because I
never I never looked at this as the likely outcome,
but it felt like a possible one. And it's just
such a missed opportunity. I've talked about this so much,
such a missed opportunity to send a surge of excitement
(17:52):
through your fan base, and I think there's so much
value to that that you can't necessarily immediately quantify five
or judge in dollars. And I got to a point
where I at least allowed myself to think that it
was possible, even if I acknowledged it wasn't likely. And
so maybe I'm the full and maybe maybe we're all
(18:12):
foolish for believing they could get this done and probably are, so.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I don't know what I also know too, you're you're
very much enthusiasm for wearing the name of another man
on the back of your shirt, and so I know
you were sizing yourself up for a number twelve Schwarmer jersey,
and now you have to look at a number four
noelvi Marte jersey.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I like noelve Marte. I would have bought a cop
I would have if that's what it would have taken. Hey,
you buy a jersey, we sign him. I'd have done it.
Nobody asked me, But I I just I wonder. I don't.
I don't want to. I don't want to poo poo
what they did last year, because again, like you got
to get to the postseason, you gotta, I mean, was
(19:00):
a big deal and it was fun. It was fun
watching him play those games in September, was fun watching
him play in the postseason, even if those games didn't
go well. But like my take from from the moment
game to an la ended is the next step is
the most difficult one. The next step is probably gonna
require a major acquisition to make the offense dramatically better.
(19:22):
I don't know that it's gonna come from within. That
doesn't mean there's not room for players who were on
the team last year to get better. It doesn't. That
doesn't mean that a huge reason why the Reds are
better in twenty twenty six isn't gonna come from improvement
from guys who were here a year ago. But and again,
it's just one guy. But to hear you know, well,
they're not connected to any of these other dudes. And
(19:42):
then to make the assumption, and I think it's a
fair one that they were in on Kyle Swarber because
of where he's from. Like, that's not how you run
a legitimate major League baseball team. So if Kyle Schwarber
was from Illinois, they wouldn't have been interested. Like are
you kidding me? Like that's that they were interested in
because he's from the greatest Cincinnati area. Yeah, I want
to tell you that that's totally implausible. But knowing what
(20:03):
we know about some of the things the Reds have done,
I can't.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And that's what is the most maddening, because the same
thing applies from Schwarber to Alonzo is that all you
have to do is give up some money and then
you get the guy that you need. It's not the
scenario where we were, you know, a decade ago or
twenty years ago or however long ago. Whenever they make
this big trade or that big signing, but it feels
like they still need to put pieces around that guy.
(20:29):
This is the peace that they put around the guys
they've got, but they just don't seem to want to
make that move to get that one piece. Pete Alonzo
would make this team a National League Central Division contender,
and that is what people thought whenever they were going
after Kyle Schwarber, Miguel and Andrew Harr, Ryan O'Hearn, Reese Hoskins.
(20:50):
Don't do that.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Awesome as always, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Wats that soon hopefully happier times. No, I appreciate you.
Thank you having you go.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Jeff Carr. Check out the Lockdown Reds podcast. We are
insanely late. I've been awful with time today. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty
Mo Egger News
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