Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi's Bryan Thomas, happy to welcome back to the fifty
five KRSY Morning Show. I got to be honest, it's
been too long. You know him if you read the Inquiry.
He's a sports writer for the Cincinnion Enquirer, but he
also used to be the writer of Politics Extra Jason
Williams and I miss your politics Extra days. Jason. I
thought you did a great job covering local politics, but
this morning we get to kind of merge your two
passions politics and sports. What's going on with Hamilton County
(00:23):
and the Cincinnati Bengals, which I understand are accusing each
other of violating the terms of the lease agreement for
pay Course Stadium.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You know you've mentioned politics, and thanks for having me
on the kind words always great to be on with.
You love the fifty five KRC listeners. There are more
loyal audience in all of media local media than the
fifty five KRC audience.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I got the best in the business. I am blessed,
my friend. Thank you for acknowledging my awesome listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm not I am not saying I remember Tony Bender
telling me that early on, and kind of, you know,
I do a little fill in down the hallway there
and I remember him telling me that you know there,
you won't find a more loyal listener. And then you
know you and I have done those did those segments
every Friday when I was covering politics, and the amount
(01:11):
of feedback I would get to my inquiry email every
week from listeners was it just blew me away. And
so I always appreciate being on your show. I'll tell you, yeah, right,
it's right. It's uh that nexus of sports and politics,
uh meet right at the Bengals stadium issue, and yeah,
the story broke. I believe it was the business curer
(01:32):
that broke the story about they got some public records
emails on Friday between the county and the and the
Bengals and just the contentiousness of the back and forth
of you know, what's going on on the stadium issue
and one accusing the other of not upholding their endo
(01:55):
the deal on on the lease, and it's it's it's
kind of in the weed. But really the bigger picture
is that we're off to a very contentious start. I
think in terms of this the future of the Bengals,
you know, on the lease and the county and the
Bengals and the Bengals, you know, doing a new lease
(02:17):
with the county or extending their lease with the county,
and the ultimate takeaway from it, Brian, is no big
surprise there.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Well, you know I undertunately, Yeah, I know, I understand that.
And obviously, you know, the voters are a little disappointed
since the you know, the half of the deal that
we were going to have our taxes ultimately lowered, it
really never came to fruition. They got their stadium, and
now they are have built into that one sided agreement,
which I think everybody who has looked at that agreement
realizes how one side it is. Of course, that side
(02:49):
of nears to the Bengals benefit. We've got all these
obligations for upgrades and improvements and what the what was
it two hundred and fifty million dollars? Have I got
that figure right that the Bengals had on their wish
list for improvements, including brand new buildings for the administrative staff.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, it was right around three hundred yeah, three hundred million.
And and then in one of these emails it was
it indicated like that potentially in these emails, and because
the county likes to take its time in releasing public records.
We're talking about emails from last July and August, so
(03:25):
you know, some things have happened since then. It seems
like generally things are on track or you know, some
of those improvements to continue on that. Last May, the
Bengals announced they're going to pour one hundred and twenty
million dollars into the stadium, and so it's a little
(03:47):
confusing then on the timing of and then those emails
came out what a couple of months later that indicated
that maybe the Bengals aren't going to do that. But
then everything since in terms of just what reporters have
have found out, and you know what, some county officials
have said that some things are on track, like the county,
(04:10):
uh you know the county, well this was I guess
apparently this this would have been approved around this time
last year. It seems crazy to think, uh, you know
that the Bengals did they did new club seats for
this season, and you know that was about thirty nine million,
I believe, and there's all kinds of million this, a
million that, and one hundred here and forty million there,
(04:31):
and so it gets it gets a little confusing, but
you know, a lot of my reporting on this, Brian,
has been everything I've been told for for you know,
really a couple of years now, is that the Bengals
don't want to fight. They don't want a contentious fight
on this, they don't want to fight on this, on
this new lease. But it's like everything I read from
(04:55):
those emails and from reports is like you can say
you don't want to fight, you you're fighting, and you're
you're doing the same things and being incredibly tough. And
they're known as incredibly tough negotiators. And I suppose, as
not suppose, I mean as a private business, they have
every right to, you know, do whatever they want in
(05:17):
terms of their negotiation. But that doesn't mean the county
can say yes to everything they asked for. And the
county's pushing back, and that's what the county should be doing.
I really believe the county is committed to absolutely trying
to get a better deal for the taxpayers this time
around than they did last time. Now, is that ultimately
(05:38):
gonna happen. We can sit here and try to predict
and project, and I mean, and I certainly have my
prediction on how this is gonna go. I think in
the end, like everyone's gonna you know, the Bengals are
gonna threaten to leave, and the county's gonna play hardball,
and they're gonna play hardball right up to the very
(05:59):
last second. I don't think the Bengals are ever really
going to be serious about wanting to leave, and then
we've got a deal.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Litigation is most usually settled on the
courthouse steps. Is the old adage. You know, they wait
to the last minute and then finally reach a resolution
because no one wants to take the gamble. But I
guess I have to ask, is there really any possibility
of them leaving? I mean, is there some other city
that says, hey, you know, we're right here, and by
(06:26):
the way, we're willing to build a two billion dollars
stadium for you whatever new stadium costs these days. I
didn't know that was really even a possibility. And don't
we as a city also get the option to sort
of buy them out if they threaten to do that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I don't know on your last question, is it I mean,
is it possible they could leave? Certainly when you look around,
there's not in terms of American cities, there's doesn't seem
like there's that many options. I know Austin has the
(07:01):
Texas has been thrown around. I believe the Buffalo Bills
used Austin, Texas as as levers to get their new stadium.
There were some reports out there on that. Now there's
also this, you know, there's a lot of talk or
there has been talk out there that like Jerry Jones
and Dallas would never allow a team in Austin, and
I think San Antonio has been has been mentioned and
(07:23):
again at a lot of times it's a speculation. Yeah uh,
and again that would be the Dallas Cowboys would have
their say on that. So it kind of comes back
to the the question of as you see the NFL
teams continuing to play international games and talk of could
there could there be a team in London? Could there
(07:44):
be a team in Mexico City. I I this is
what I truly believe. And again just from my conversations
and trying to put puzzle pieces together, and I am
I want to be clear, I am not saying this
is what's going to have happened, that this is what
the Bengals want. I really believe the Bengals would sell
(08:05):
the team before that, that they would move the team
from Cincinnati really to anywhere, whatever city it would be.
I really believe that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, I guess the ownership, the ownership change is really
what I was going for. If they sell, I think
that brings about a legal option for the city to
buy it. Not if they just move. The Brown foundly
wants to pack up and collectively move their team to
another city. I suppose they can do that, But that
international angle is kind of an interesting topic because you know,
they are pushing NFL globally, so that doesn't remain a possibility.
(08:39):
Who is negotiating or leading the negotiations on the county side, well, the.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
County administrator, Jeff Luta, some of Yeah, some of the
same lawyers that have been involved for a long time
are are still involved now. Obviously the county commissioners are
getting briefed. They are having a little bit of say,
but certainly from the county side of this or some
different players at the table now on the on the
(09:07):
Bengals side of this, uh, there's mostly the same folks
are still involved, from the attorneys to the obviously the
Bengals ownership are still involved in what happened last time.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Well, same players and the same people.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Who were there last time are here again at the table.
And these these guys are I mean, the Bengals are.
They are incredibly legally smart. They have incredibly smart negotiators,
and they they they are tough negotiators. And I mean,
you know, if you were teaching a class in law
(09:44):
school about negotiation and how to get the absolute best
deal for yourself, I would certainly use the Bengals as
an example. From a private business standpoint.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
The Dream Team just said, don't don't worry. We We've
got Stephanie Dumas on the other side. So there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well, yeah, I mean there has been some talk behind
the scenes too about some desires I think on the
Bengals side too. You know, I think they would like
to see maybe a some kind of a stadium authority.
And again this is just I think just probably cutting
(10:26):
room four types of ideas in which basically you would
get the negotiation piece away from the county commissioners. I've
not since any kind of real momentum there on really
you know that happening, But I mean you certainly see
that I believe Pittsburgh has a stadium authority and it's
(10:48):
just basically a board, a publicly appointed board, and that's
what they do. They do they do stadium related issues
and maintenance and budget and money and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, budget and money, I think is where the rubber
meets the road, because we're talking about a lot of
money and a finite amount of dollars in the county,
you know, a lot of which is supposed to go
to law enforcement and the other thing I have to
observe for a part company to da Jason Williams, and
I've enjoyed this conversation is I always do with you?
You know, I find this all ridiculous, this whole idea
(11:18):
of keeping up with the Joneses. In so far as
stadium upgrades are concerned, does the stadium perfunction as it should? Yes,
it provides an adequate space where a game of football
can be played. I mean, really, that's it. I don't
care if the if the locker room has a disco
ball and a special stereosystem, and damn it, you could
probably have those guys in a high school locker room.
(11:38):
It would hold their clothes while they're playing the game.
They could shower and clean up there and then go home.
All these bells and whistles really just kind of pissed
me off, especially since you and I, the taxpayers of
Hamilton County, are going to shoulder the burden on this.
It seems to me that the Bengals, if they don't
have a whole lot of leverage about pulling the plug
in leaving town, need to think about their own reputation
and loyalty to the fans. The good will needs to
(12:00):
be established, and that's where their own money should come in,
or maybe they should pair back these what I consider
outrageous demands for upgrades.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean, Brian, you couldn't have you couldn't have really
said that any better. And you know, I think that's
where the I think that's there. There's a real crossroads here,
and you know where does when you think about taxpayers
and a lot of those taxpayers are also fans, and
so then where where does that you know, where does
(12:31):
that kind of nexus meet there in terms of, yeah,
you want the NFL in your town, but I'm also
like a taxpayer in Hamilton County and this is incredibly
expensive and we got a bad deal last time, which
you know, we can sit here and we can yell
at the Bengals, and yeah, do I think that they
need to pour more money into it? Absolutely? Do I
(12:51):
think the county, uh you know, didn't get the best
deal for the taxpayers last time around.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Absolutely, sat lightly.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, I mean, and and so that there is a
there's an absolute premium when you look around the NFL
and what when it comes to new stadiums, and and look, hey,
I guess I give the Bengals credit, like they're not
asking for a new stadium, whereas in Tennessee they did
ask for a new stadium, and their stadium there is
(13:22):
only a year older than ours, and they're getting a
new stadium in Nashville. And so yeah, yeah, And but
typically what I've seen in Nashville and in Buffalo, it's
been about a sixty forty sixty public money forty private money.
There's the new wave of stadiums now or there's more
(13:44):
state money going into and so I think there's this
there's a lot of talk about more state money this
time around. Obviously the Cleveland Browns are looking at a
new stadium, so then there's talk about giving them more
state money. So I certainly think you're going to see
a lot bigger burden carried by the state government this
(14:05):
time around, and you know, in the Bengals stadium. But
it all it's like, we still don't know what the
Bengals are willing to pay. They're gonna have to be
willing to pay a lot more than they paid last time.
Percentage will obviously when it comes to row number they're
going to But when it comes to we're talking about
percentage here because the upgrades are going to cost more
(14:27):
than what it costs to actually originally build the stadium.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I know. And when I every time I hear that, Jason,
it just blows my mind again. It functions fine. And
the wave of the future, I think is for me
to sit in the basement on a giant screen, great
resolution TV, drinking three dollars beer as opposed to fifteen
dollars beer and not having to incur parking and you know,
I don't know, It's just it's all shocking to me. Jason.
(14:52):
I'm glad you're staying on top of it. Cincinnati dot
Com is where you find since an enquirre online and
read what Jason has to write in sports and Jason,
You're always welcome here in the fifty five Catsey Morning Show.
You get any other details or developments on these negotiations,
you know you've got a spot to talk about it,
and I welcome you back at any time.
Hi's Bryan Thomas, happy to welcome back to the fifty
five KRSY Morning Show. I got to be honest, it's
been too long. You know him if you read the Inquiry.
He's a sports writer for the Cincinnion Enquirer, but he
also used to be the writer of Politics Extra Jason
Williams and I miss your politics Extra days. Jason. I
thought you did a great job covering local politics, but
this morning we get to kind of merge your two
passions politics and sports. What's going on with Hamilton County
(00:23):
and the Cincinnati Bengals, which I understand are accusing each
other of violating the terms of the lease agreement for
pay Course Stadium.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You know you've mentioned politics, and thanks for having me
on the kind words always great to be on with.
You love the fifty five KRC listeners. There are more
loyal audience in all of media local media than the
fifty five KRC audience.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I got the best in the business. I am blessed,
my friend. Thank you for acknowledging my awesome listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm not I am not saying I remember Tony Bender
telling me that early on, and kind of, you know,
I do a little fill in down the hallway there
and I remember him telling me that you know there,
you won't find a more loyal listener. And then you
know you and I have done those did those segments
every Friday when I was covering politics, and the amount
(01:11):
of feedback I would get to my inquiry email every
week from listeners was it just blew me away. And
so I always appreciate being on your show. I'll tell you, yeah, right,
it's right. It's uh that nexus of sports and politics,
uh meet right at the Bengals stadium issue, and yeah,
the story broke. I believe it was the business curer
(01:32):
that broke the story about they got some public records
emails on Friday between the county and the and the
Bengals and just the contentiousness of the back and forth
of you know, what's going on on the stadium issue
and one accusing the other of not upholding their endo
(01:55):
the deal on on the lease, and it's it's it's
kind of in the weed. But really the bigger picture
is that we're off to a very contentious start. I
think in terms of this the future of the Bengals,
you know, on the lease and the county and the
Bengals and the Bengals, you know, doing a new lease
(02:17):
with the county or extending their lease with the county,
and the ultimate takeaway from it, Brian, is no big
surprise there.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Well, you know I undertunately, Yeah, I know, I understand that.
And obviously, you know, the voters are a little disappointed
since the you know, the half of the deal that
we were going to have our taxes ultimately lowered, it
really never came to fruition. They got their stadium, and
now they are have built into that one sided agreement,
which I think everybody who has looked at that agreement
realizes how one side it is. Of course, that side
(02:49):
of nears to the Bengals benefit. We've got all these
obligations for upgrades and improvements and what the what was
it two hundred and fifty million dollars? Have I got
that figure right that the Bengals had on their wish
list for improvements, including brand new buildings for the administrative staff.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, it was right around three hundred yeah, three hundred million.
And and then in one of these emails it was
it indicated like that potentially in these emails, and because
the county likes to take its time in releasing public records.
We're talking about emails from last July and August, so
(03:25):
you know, some things have happened since then. It seems
like generally things are on track or you know, some
of those improvements to continue on that. Last May, the
Bengals announced they're going to pour one hundred and twenty
million dollars into the stadium, and so it's a little
(03:47):
confusing then on the timing of and then those emails
came out what a couple of months later that indicated
that maybe the Bengals aren't going to do that. But
then everything since in terms of just what reporters have
have found out, and you know what, some county officials
have said that some things are on track, like the county,
(04:10):
uh you know the county, well this was I guess
apparently this this would have been approved around this time
last year. It seems crazy to think, uh, you know
that the Bengals did they did new club seats for
this season, and you know that was about thirty nine million,
I believe, and there's all kinds of million this, a
million that, and one hundred here and forty million there,
(04:31):
and so it gets it gets a little confusing, but
you know, a lot of my reporting on this, Brian,
has been everything I've been told for for you know,
really a couple of years now, is that the Bengals
don't want to fight. They don't want a contentious fight
on this, they don't want to fight on this, on
this new lease. But it's like everything I read from
(04:55):
those emails and from reports is like you can say
you don't want to fight, you you're fighting, and you're
you're doing the same things and being incredibly tough. And
they're known as incredibly tough negotiators. And I suppose, as
not suppose, I mean as a private business, they have
every right to, you know, do whatever they want in
(05:17):
terms of their negotiation. But that doesn't mean the county
can say yes to everything they asked for. And the
county's pushing back, and that's what the county should be doing.
I really believe the county is committed to absolutely trying
to get a better deal for the taxpayers this time
around than they did last time. Now, is that ultimately
(05:38):
gonna happen. We can sit here and try to predict
and project, and I mean, and I certainly have my
prediction on how this is gonna go. I think in
the end, like everyone's gonna you know, the Bengals are
gonna threaten to leave, and the county's gonna play hardball,
and they're gonna play hardball right up to the very
(05:59):
last second. I don't think the Bengals are ever really
going to be serious about wanting to leave, and then
we've got a deal.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Litigation is most usually settled on the
courthouse steps. Is the old adage. You know, they wait
to the last minute and then finally reach a resolution
because no one wants to take the gamble. But I
guess I have to ask, is there really any possibility
of them leaving? I mean, is there some other city
that says, hey, you know, we're right here, and by
(06:26):
the way, we're willing to build a two billion dollars
stadium for you whatever new stadium costs these days. I
didn't know that was really even a possibility. And don't
we as a city also get the option to sort
of buy them out if they threaten to do that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I don't know on your last question, is it I mean,
is it possible they could leave? Certainly when you look around,
there's not in terms of American cities, there's doesn't seem
like there's that many options. I know Austin has the
(07:01):
Texas has been thrown around. I believe the Buffalo Bills
used Austin, Texas as as levers to get their new stadium.
There were some reports out there on that. Now there's
also this, you know, there's a lot of talk or
there has been talk out there that like Jerry Jones
and Dallas would never allow a team in Austin, and
I think San Antonio has been has been mentioned and
(07:23):
again at a lot of times it's a speculation. Yeah uh,
and again that would be the Dallas Cowboys would have
their say on that. So it kind of comes back
to the the question of as you see the NFL
teams continuing to play international games and talk of could
there could there be a team in London? Could there
(07:44):
be a team in Mexico City. I I this is
what I truly believe. And again just from my conversations
and trying to put puzzle pieces together, and I am
I want to be clear, I am not saying this
is what's going to have happened, that this is what
the Bengals want. I really believe the Bengals would sell
(08:05):
the team before that, that they would move the team
from Cincinnati really to anywhere, whatever city it would be.
I really believe that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, I guess the ownership, the ownership change is really
what I was going for. If they sell, I think
that brings about a legal option for the city to
buy it. Not if they just move. The Brown foundly
wants to pack up and collectively move their team to
another city. I suppose they can do that, But that
international angle is kind of an interesting topic because you know,
they are pushing NFL globally, so that doesn't remain a possibility.
(08:39):
Who is negotiating or leading the negotiations on the county side, well, the.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
County administrator, Jeff Luta, some of Yeah, some of the
same lawyers that have been involved for a long time
are are still involved now. Obviously the county commissioners are
getting briefed. They are having a little bit of say,
but certainly from the county side of this or some
different players at the table now on the on the
(09:07):
Bengals side of this, uh, there's mostly the same folks
are still involved, from the attorneys to the obviously the
Bengals ownership are still involved in what happened last time.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Well, same players and the same people.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Who were there last time are here again at the table.
And these these guys are I mean, the Bengals are.
They are incredibly legally smart. They have incredibly smart negotiators,
and they they they are tough negotiators. And I mean,
you know, if you were teaching a class in law
(09:44):
school about negotiation and how to get the absolute best
deal for yourself, I would certainly use the Bengals as
an example. From a private business standpoint.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
The Dream Team just said, don't don't worry. We We've
got Stephanie Dumas on the other side. So there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well, yeah, I mean there has been some talk behind
the scenes too about some desires I think on the
Bengals side too. You know, I think they would like
to see maybe a some kind of a stadium authority.
And again this is just I think just probably cutting
(10:26):
room four types of ideas in which basically you would
get the negotiation piece away from the county commissioners. I've
not since any kind of real momentum there on really
you know that happening, But I mean you certainly see
that I believe Pittsburgh has a stadium authority and it's
(10:48):
just basically a board, a publicly appointed board, and that's
what they do. They do they do stadium related issues
and maintenance and budget and money and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, budget and money, I think is where the rubber
meets the road, because we're talking about a lot of
money and a finite amount of dollars in the county,
you know, a lot of which is supposed to go
to law enforcement and the other thing I have to
observe for a part company to da Jason Williams, and
I've enjoyed this conversation is I always do with you?
You know, I find this all ridiculous, this whole idea
(11:18):
of keeping up with the Joneses. In so far as
stadium upgrades are concerned, does the stadium perfunction as it should? Yes,
it provides an adequate space where a game of football
can be played. I mean, really, that's it. I don't
care if the if the locker room has a disco
ball and a special stereosystem, and damn it, you could
probably have those guys in a high school locker room.
(11:38):
It would hold their clothes while they're playing the game.
They could shower and clean up there and then go home.
All these bells and whistles really just kind of pissed
me off, especially since you and I, the taxpayers of
Hamilton County, are going to shoulder the burden on this.
It seems to me that the Bengals, if they don't
have a whole lot of leverage about pulling the plug
in leaving town, need to think about their own reputation
and loyalty to the fans. The good will needs to
(12:00):
be established, and that's where their own money should come in,
or maybe they should pair back these what I consider
outrageous demands for upgrades.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean, Brian, you couldn't have you couldn't have really
said that any better. And you know, I think that's
where the I think that's there. There's a real crossroads here,
and you know where does when you think about taxpayers
and a lot of those taxpayers are also fans, and
so then where where does that you know, where does
(12:31):
that kind of nexus meet there in terms of, yeah,
you want the NFL in your town, but I'm also
like a taxpayer in Hamilton County and this is incredibly
expensive and we got a bad deal last time, which
you know, we can sit here and we can yell
at the Bengals, and yeah, do I think that they
need to pour more money into it? Absolutely? Do I
(12:51):
think the county, uh you know, didn't get the best
deal for the taxpayers last time around.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Absolutely, sat lightly.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, I mean, and and so that there is a
there's an absolute premium when you look around the NFL
and what when it comes to new stadiums, and and look, hey,
I guess I give the Bengals credit, like they're not
asking for a new stadium, whereas in Tennessee they did
ask for a new stadium, and their stadium there is
(13:22):
only a year older than ours, and they're getting a
new stadium in Nashville. And so yeah, yeah, And but
typically what I've seen in Nashville and in Buffalo, it's
been about a sixty forty sixty public money forty private money.
There's the new wave of stadiums now or there's more
(13:44):
state money going into and so I think there's this
there's a lot of talk about more state money this
time around. Obviously the Cleveland Browns are looking at a
new stadium, so then there's talk about giving them more
state money. So I certainly think you're going to see
a lot bigger burden carried by the state government this
(14:05):
time around, and you know, in the Bengals stadium. But
it all it's like, we still don't know what the
Bengals are willing to pay. They're gonna have to be
willing to pay a lot more than they paid last time.
Percentage will obviously when it comes to row number they're
going to But when it comes to we're talking about
percentage here because the upgrades are going to cost more
(14:27):
than what it costs to actually originally build the stadium.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I know. And when I every time I hear that, Jason,
it just blows my mind again. It functions fine. And
the wave of the future, I think is for me
to sit in the basement on a giant screen, great
resolution TV, drinking three dollars beer as opposed to fifteen
dollars beer and not having to incur parking and you know,
I don't know, It's just it's all shocking to me. Jason.
(14:52):
I'm glad you're staying on top of it. Cincinnati dot
Com is where you find since an enquirre online and
read what Jason has to write in sports and Jason,
You're always welcome here in the fifty five Catsey Morning Show.
You get any other details or developments on these negotiations,
you know you've got a spot to talk about it,
and I welcome you back at any time.
Brian Thomas News
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