April 18, 2025 • 15 mins
Kevin Gordon talks all things technology with Dave Hatter.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Six thirty in the morning, Kevin Gordon and for Brian
Thomas fifty five KR see the talk station, and as
always we've got Tech Friday with my good friend Dave Hatter,
or as I like to call it, scare that hell
out of here Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Dave, how are you this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm good. I'm good. Kevin, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're not bad at all, not bad at all. It's
been a while since we've talked, which is a shame.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's not right.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
So I hate that I'm always scaring people, but always
good to Charlie and hopefully Kevin, we're doing some good
out there.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Of course, it's always necessary to let people know what's
going on, because I mean, there are so many people
that are just you hear these things from time to
time and it's just frightening as to all the scams
and stuff that are there.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, and you know, this is what I do for
a living in my day job, and you know a
big part of what we try to do with Interust
is help you defend against these things and then be
resilient so if you get hit as a business with
one of these, you can recover quickly with minimal impact.
But Unfortunately, unfortunately, these scams are running rampant. These folks
(01:20):
are very smart. I mean, I can easily spend this
whole half hour just telling you real world stories of
things I personally have seen our companies experience, and in
some cases they're devastating. Some companies do not recover from
these things.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I want to stop you for a second third day've
hatter because you kind of minimize something there you talk
about your day job and this sort of thing. What
I know about you is that you know, there are
people they're probably about four or five people that I
know of that I've passed or that I've met through
business contacts and whatever, that really have a passion for
(01:53):
what it is they do. They are a student of
what they do. They tend to I mean, I mean,
I've talked to you on a number of on a
number of different issues. It's not like you're just you know,
just as you know, blinders on single focus, but you
are actually a student of this.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You enjoy it, you like it.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
There's a certain amount I can tell you know when
we talk about you have a passion for this, and
that is rare. So it's not just a job to you.
It's a passion, and it's something that you totally are
doing a service to people and you enjoy what you
do so well.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
That is a very time compliment and I appreciate that.
But you know, I'm pretty nerdy Kevin, so I do.
I enjoy the technology, but I also feel a little
guilty sometimes because you know, I spent almost twenty five
years of my career as a software engineer building this
sort of stuff for people, and that's partially how I
got into the cybersecurity pieces. I kept seeing the same
(02:51):
mistakes being made. I kept seeing there there was not
a focus on security. You know, most of most of
the time, that focus would be on can I make
what you want work? Can I get it done on
time and within budget, as opposed to one of the
downstream consequences if this, if this has a security breach
of some sort, And that's really kind of what got
And then then when I started to see all these
(03:12):
nation state actors get in the game, China and Russia, Iran,
North Korea, there's sort of the access of evil, if
you will, in cybersecurity of the nation state actors. Keep
in mind, you've got criminal gangs all around the world,
you know, voting, these attacks on people, individuals, businesses. I'll
tell you this is a true story, Kevin, first hand
knowledge of this Cincinnati based company referred to us to
(03:34):
a partner and an accounting company. They lost nine hundred and
eighty three thousand dollars through account takeover that led to
fraudulent invoices. And we see this sort of thing wow
all the time. Now, what company has a spare nine
hundred and eighty three thousand dollars laying around?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I wish I did, but I don't.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, me too, brother. That would be you know, devastating,
if not potentially catastrophic for many businesses to lose that
kind of money.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Well, you know, and Dave, that's not just the nine
hundred and some thousand dollars. I mean, yeah, okay, that's
a that's a hole in the budget. But when you
look from an accounting standpoint at that company and you
look at what their revenue is and what their bottom
line is, let's say it's ten percent, That ten percent
would equate to in order to make that nine hundred
(04:25):
million dollars back. What is that something like nine billion
in sales that you are nine hundred whatever the number
is in sales so that you can equal that profit
to pay that nine hundred million dollars.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, it's you raise another very valid point that oftentimes
is misunderstood out there in the world of business until
something bad happens. And I totally understand that your average
business person is trying to run their business. They're trying
to make money, they're trying to grow the business. They
got all kinds of worries and concern and things that
(05:00):
they want to do, things they're trying to do to
be successful. I totally get that they don't want to
have to know about all these things. They don't want
to have to worry about this stuff. And what I
often hear is, oh, we're a small business. We don't
have anything worth stealing, and your money is worth stealing,
and if you make it easy, they will steal your money.
It's amazing how creative and deedious these folks are. And
(05:23):
now you're throw in these generative AI tools, whether it's
something like chats ept that can generate perfect English pros
versus the broken English we would see in these attacks
ten fifteen years ago, or all the way up to
deep fake voice cloning. And I have people tell me
all the time. They don't believe it. Kevin, I'm here
to tell you, and I may have told you this before.
(05:43):
John Matterich and WCPO called me up. We did a
TV interview in less than one hour. I swear this
is true, and you can look it up on their website.
In less than one hour from the time he called me,
I went out and found a free website that claimed
to clone a voice. I'd never used it before. I'd
never tried this before. I just knew it is a
thing freesight, no experience. I get on there, I mess
(06:03):
with a little bit. John shows up and in less
than an hour you can see it in the interview
I did with him.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
We clone his voice.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Now he had to read a sentence a couple of
times to train the tool, and then you can watch
me in the interview type in Hello gram all this
is John, I needs your help, hit a button and
it comes out to speakers. Now that was no experience
with a free tool two years ago. These things are
way better. And then, Kevin, when I always get is well, Dave,
I'm not a celebrity. How would you get my voice?
How would the average criminal get my voice? I'm the
(06:32):
CEO of the company X, or the mayor of city
Y or whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Do you have a voicemail greeting?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
You do, I am you? I am you in less
than fifteen minutes now that I encourage all of your listeners.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It is very.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Frightening because most people don't know it's a thing, and
even if they've heard of it, don't believe it could
happen to them. Again, if you have a voicemail greeting,
if your voice is out there somewhere in social media
or anywhere that a criminal can get to, you can
potentially be deep voice clone.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I encourage all your listeners.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
This was well documented in the media. The CEO of
Ferrari had his voice voice clone and nearly fooled the
CFO of Ferrari, the car people that they work with
together all the time, nearly fooled them into making a
financial transaction. It was only at the last minute, but
the CFO started to get.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
A weird vibe.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Everything was very unusual about what the CEO was asking for,
and the CEO asked the quote CEO a question that
only the CEO could know, and at that point the
jig was up. He realized this was some kind of scam.
This that is going to be a tsunami of crime, and.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It is here today.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
I stress enough to people how it is. Just watched
watch the interview John and I did. Go WCPO website
or find me on social media. You'll find it and
you'll see how easy this is.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Unbelievable. Well, Dave, we need to step out real quick
and we'll come back. I want to continue on with this,
and I got a little story last month. I was
down at the Mid America Trucking Show and some of
the technology that's coming out there in the AI area
is right along this line of what you're talking about.
And I can see how that's great from their aspect,
(08:12):
but how criminals can use that also.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So we'll pick this up.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
My guest is Dave Hatter, cybersecurity expert, the top cybersecurity
expert in the Greater Cincinnati and in my opinion, anywhere.
I'm Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas, fifty five krs,
the talk.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Station, fifty five KARC. So how do we create value?
This is great six forty one in the morning.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas, fifty five krs, the
talk station. Continuing our conversation with Dave Hatter, cybersecurity expert,
one of the premier cybersecurity experts in the area, and
from my opinion, anywhere that I've found anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So Dave I mentioned.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Before the before the break that I had been down
at the Mid America Trucking Show last month and one
of the big people or one of the big advertisers
down there that was making a splash is this using
this AI technology? And he stopped by the booth and
we had the interview and he talked about how this
program that they have is geared towards the trucking industry
(09:18):
and AI, I guess, is getting so specific now that
when you are doing like voice commands or voice that
it kind of can translate not only you know, you
can do a sentence in English, French and whatever, and
it will combine that and give the translation to a
specific individual or get that out. Also they are interpreting
(09:43):
better what he called what he referred to as blue
collar English. And then it's specific because if you're in
the trucking realm and this is a tool for the
trucking realm instead of misunderstanding, as I texted you before
the show or before we came on, I voicemailed or
voiced a text to you and the word came out
(10:04):
completely bizarre. But because of the text of what we're
talking about, it would have corrected that. And I think,
you know, from the aspects of getting load boards and
finding loads and negotiating of AI, negotiating all the business
and stuff with your truck so you don't have to
do it while you're driving, is great. But then again,
(10:27):
the way that can be used as what you were
talking about, how that can be used, as you said
with Ferrari, how you can really scam something is frightening.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, I agree with you, Kevin. This technology is rapidly progressed. Now,
I want to be really honest and tell you I
don't think skynet is going to become aware anytime soon.
We're not going to see terminators dropping out of the sky,
wiping us all out or anything like that. Now, I
also say, you know, I don't know what's in some
lamp somewhere, Kevin, but I can just tell you if
(10:57):
I'm working with.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
The tools that are readily available.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Today, things like chatsypt or rock which is Ex's generative AI,
or things like that, there's still a lot of limitations.
And one of the concerns that many people raise on
a regular basis is these things sollucinate. They just make
things up. You know, maybe it's correct eighty percent of
the time, and twenty percent of the time you don't
know if what you've got is right or not. You know,
(11:21):
that's one of the limitations. But to your point, you're
also seeing more and this is not new, but it's
come on rapidly and you're seeing it's spreading a lot
of fields. Purpose built AI things that are designed to
do a specific type of task. You know, chatsypt is,
it can't do everything, but it can do a lot
of different things fairly well.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
But there are other.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Ais out there that have a specific type of task
they're trying to do, and many of them are, you know,
pretty spectacular. I can tell you we use some AI
internally at Interest to do things like answer phone calls
and rout them to the right people faster. So rather
than have a human being kind of doing a routine, mundane,
boring task all day long, they can focus on higher
(12:01):
value things. They can focus on, you know, getting faster
resolutions for our clients that sort of stuff, but this
voice cloning thing, and it's not just voice, right, it's
deep fake video as well. There are some documented examples
in the media out there of people on how just
call it a video conference for lack of a better description,
(12:21):
where they think they're talking to a human being.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
There has been a plethora.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Of stories hitting the news about deep fake AI being
used for job interviews and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So I think it's never been more important, Kevin, for
people to understand.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
The old adage of you know, if you see it,
you can believe it kind of thing is no longer
true because much of this technology is good enough now,
especially if you're not aware this is a thing, especially
if you're not thinking, am I actually talking to a
human being here? Or am I somehow my talking to
some sort of AI agent, whether it's a voice sort
(12:57):
of video or whatever. And people go learn as much
about this as you can.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I mean, you don't need.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
To get into the business. Just go find some of
these stories. Read that CEO story.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
See, there's got to be and there's got to be
some way.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And I'm sure that somebody could probably make a fortune
at this, and maybe we should develop it ourselves. Dave,
and then we can retire being able to buy the
words that are used, the phrases that are used, or
maybe questions that you can ask to find out whether
in fact you're dealing with AI or a human being
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
I don't know if that technology is out there yet,
but that would certainly there are.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
There are lots of smart people working on that technology
to try to you know, whether it's watermark.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Something or yeah, sometimes have a way to know that
something is a deep daki the problem as I see it,
and also you know, I'm not I don't have deep,
deep knowledge in that space, especially the space of people
trying to help you determine whether something's legit or not.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Is the technology is moving very quickly, and the bad
guys are super creative.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Again, we could.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Spend this entire segment, Kevin, I could probably talk to
you for more than three hours. We could actual stories.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
We're heading in that direction, my friend.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
The creativity of the bad guys, it's quite insane.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And what's even more insane, Dave Hatter, is the legislators
trying to rain this in. They are at least what
three years behind.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
It's it's tough.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I can tell you. I end up, you know, talking
to legislators in Kentucky a lot on these technology topics,
trying to you know, give some insight and steer these conversations.
I'm genuinely an anti regulation sort of guy.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I know, this is such a wild.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
West out there, and it's it's moving so quickly, and
I'm really concerned both for business related fraud and individual fraud.
I mean, people are losing their life staving.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yes, Businesses are.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Losing huge amounts of money, are going out of business
because of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And it's one of those things and until it actually
hits you, you just, oh, that's the other guy.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
That's not going to happen to me. That's not going
to happen to me, exactly.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I fully understand how hard it is for people to
believe this.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
All right, we need to talk and we need to
talk about that because you presented this this what is
it for Scouts twenty five report? We got to bring
that up before we get out of here. Run up
against the clock, but we'll step out here for a
moment and we'll come back and hit that. My guest
is Dave Hatter. He is a cybersecurity expert and love
talking to him. I'm Kevin Gordon and for Brian Thomas,
(15:44):
fifty five KRC The talk station
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Fifty five KARC get ready to vote
Six thirty in the morning, Kevin Gordon and for Brian
Thomas fifty five KR see the talk station, and as
always we've got Tech Friday with my good friend Dave Hatter,
or as I like to call it, scare that hell
out of here Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Dave, how are you this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm good. I'm good. Kevin, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're not bad at all, not bad at all. It's
been a while since we've talked, which is a shame.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's not right.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
So I hate that I'm always scaring people, but always
good to Charlie and hopefully Kevin, we're doing some good
out there.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Of course, it's always necessary to let people know what's
going on, because I mean, there are so many people
that are just you hear these things from time to
time and it's just frightening as to all the scams
and stuff that are there.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, and you know, this is what I do for
a living in my day job, and you know a
big part of what we try to do with Interust
is help you defend against these things and then be
resilient so if you get hit as a business with
one of these, you can recover quickly with minimal impact.
But Unfortunately, unfortunately, these scams are running rampant. These folks
(01:20):
are very smart. I mean, I can easily spend this
whole half hour just telling you real world stories of
things I personally have seen our companies experience, and in
some cases they're devastating. Some companies do not recover from
these things.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I want to stop you for a second third day've
hatter because you kind of minimize something there you talk
about your day job and this sort of thing. What
I know about you is that you know, there are
people they're probably about four or five people that I
know of that I've passed or that I've met through
business contacts and whatever, that really have a passion for
(01:53):
what it is they do. They are a student of
what they do. They tend to I mean, I mean,
I've talked to you on a number of on a
number of different issues. It's not like you're just you know,
just as you know, blinders on single focus, but you
are actually a student of this.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You enjoy it, you like it.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
There's a certain amount I can tell you know when
we talk about you have a passion for this, and
that is rare. So it's not just a job to you.
It's a passion, and it's something that you totally are
doing a service to people and you enjoy what you
do so well.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
That is a very time compliment and I appreciate that.
But you know, I'm pretty nerdy Kevin, so I do.
I enjoy the technology, but I also feel a little
guilty sometimes because you know, I spent almost twenty five
years of my career as a software engineer building this
sort of stuff for people, and that's partially how I
got into the cybersecurity pieces. I kept seeing the same
(02:51):
mistakes being made. I kept seeing there there was not
a focus on security. You know, most of most of
the time, that focus would be on can I make
what you want work? Can I get it done on
time and within budget, as opposed to one of the
downstream consequences if this, if this has a security breach
of some sort, And that's really kind of what got
And then then when I started to see all these
(03:12):
nation state actors get in the game, China and Russia, Iran,
North Korea, there's sort of the access of evil, if
you will, in cybersecurity of the nation state actors. Keep
in mind, you've got criminal gangs all around the world,
you know, voting, these attacks on people, individuals, businesses. I'll
tell you this is a true story, Kevin, first hand
knowledge of this Cincinnati based company referred to us to
(03:34):
a partner and an accounting company. They lost nine hundred and
eighty three thousand dollars through account takeover that led to
fraudulent invoices. And we see this sort of thing wow
all the time. Now, what company has a spare nine
hundred and eighty three thousand dollars laying around?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I wish I did, but I don't.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, me too, brother. That would be you know, devastating,
if not potentially catastrophic for many businesses to lose that
kind of money.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Well, you know, and Dave, that's not just the nine
hundred and some thousand dollars. I mean, yeah, okay, that's
a that's a hole in the budget. But when you
look from an accounting standpoint at that company and you
look at what their revenue is and what their bottom
line is, let's say it's ten percent, That ten percent
would equate to in order to make that nine hundred
(04:25):
million dollars back. What is that something like nine billion
in sales that you are nine hundred whatever the number
is in sales so that you can equal that profit
to pay that nine hundred million dollars.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, it's you raise another very valid point that oftentimes
is misunderstood out there in the world of business until
something bad happens. And I totally understand that your average
business person is trying to run their business. They're trying
to make money, they're trying to grow the business. They
got all kinds of worries and concern and things that
(05:00):
they want to do, things they're trying to do to
be successful. I totally get that they don't want to
have to know about all these things. They don't want
to have to worry about this stuff. And what I
often hear is, oh, we're a small business. We don't
have anything worth stealing, and your money is worth stealing,
and if you make it easy, they will steal your money.
It's amazing how creative and deedious these folks are. And
(05:23):
now you're throw in these generative AI tools, whether it's
something like chats ept that can generate perfect English pros
versus the broken English we would see in these attacks
ten fifteen years ago, or all the way up to
deep fake voice cloning. And I have people tell me
all the time. They don't believe it. Kevin, I'm here
to tell you, and I may have told you this before.
(05:43):
John Matterich and WCPO called me up. We did a
TV interview in less than one hour. I swear this
is true, and you can look it up on their website.
In less than one hour from the time he called me,
I went out and found a free website that claimed
to clone a voice. I'd never used it before. I'd
never tried this before. I just knew it is a
thing freesight, no experience. I get on there, I mess
(06:03):
with a little bit. John shows up and in less
than an hour you can see it in the interview
I did with him.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
We clone his voice.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Now he had to read a sentence a couple of
times to train the tool, and then you can watch
me in the interview type in Hello gram all this
is John, I needs your help, hit a button and
it comes out to speakers. Now that was no experience
with a free tool two years ago. These things are
way better. And then, Kevin, when I always get is well, Dave,
I'm not a celebrity. How would you get my voice?
How would the average criminal get my voice? I'm the
(06:32):
CEO of the company X, or the mayor of city
Y or whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Do you have a voicemail greeting?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
You do, I am you? I am you in less
than fifteen minutes now that I encourage all of your listeners.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It is very.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Frightening because most people don't know it's a thing, and
even if they've heard of it, don't believe it could
happen to them. Again, if you have a voicemail greeting,
if your voice is out there somewhere in social media
or anywhere that a criminal can get to, you can
potentially be deep voice clone.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I encourage all your listeners.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
This was well documented in the media. The CEO of
Ferrari had his voice voice clone and nearly fooled the
CFO of Ferrari, the car people that they work with
together all the time, nearly fooled them into making a
financial transaction. It was only at the last minute, but
the CFO started to get.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
A weird vibe.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Everything was very unusual about what the CEO was asking for,
and the CEO asked the quote CEO a question that
only the CEO could know, and at that point the
jig was up. He realized this was some kind of scam.
This that is going to be a tsunami of crime, and.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It is here today.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
I stress enough to people how it is. Just watched
watch the interview John and I did. Go WCPO website
or find me on social media. You'll find it and
you'll see how easy this is.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Unbelievable. Well, Dave, we need to step out real quick
and we'll come back. I want to continue on with this,
and I got a little story last month. I was
down at the Mid America Trucking Show and some of
the technology that's coming out there in the AI area
is right along this line of what you're talking about.
And I can see how that's great from their aspect,
(08:12):
but how criminals can use that also.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So we'll pick this up.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
My guest is Dave Hatter, cybersecurity expert, the top cybersecurity
expert in the Greater Cincinnati and in my opinion, anywhere.
I'm Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas, fifty five krs,
the talk.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Station, fifty five KARC. So how do we create value?
This is great six forty one in the morning.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas, fifty five krs, the
talk station. Continuing our conversation with Dave Hatter, cybersecurity expert,
one of the premier cybersecurity experts in the area, and
from my opinion, anywhere that I've found anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So Dave I mentioned.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Before the before the break that I had been down
at the Mid America Trucking Show last month and one
of the big people or one of the big advertisers
down there that was making a splash is this using
this AI technology? And he stopped by the booth and
we had the interview and he talked about how this
program that they have is geared towards the trucking industry
(09:18):
and AI, I guess, is getting so specific now that
when you are doing like voice commands or voice that
it kind of can translate not only you know, you
can do a sentence in English, French and whatever, and
it will combine that and give the translation to a
specific individual or get that out. Also they are interpreting
(09:43):
better what he called what he referred to as blue
collar English. And then it's specific because if you're in
the trucking realm and this is a tool for the
trucking realm instead of misunderstanding, as I texted you before
the show or before we came on, I voicemailed or
voiced a text to you and the word came out
(10:04):
completely bizarre. But because of the text of what we're
talking about, it would have corrected that. And I think,
you know, from the aspects of getting load boards and
finding loads and negotiating of AI, negotiating all the business
and stuff with your truck so you don't have to
do it while you're driving, is great. But then again,
(10:27):
the way that can be used as what you were
talking about, how that can be used, as you said
with Ferrari, how you can really scam something is frightening.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, I agree with you, Kevin. This technology is rapidly progressed. Now,
I want to be really honest and tell you I
don't think skynet is going to become aware anytime soon.
We're not going to see terminators dropping out of the sky,
wiping us all out or anything like that. Now, I
also say, you know, I don't know what's in some
lamp somewhere, Kevin, but I can just tell you if
(10:57):
I'm working with.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
The tools that are readily available.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Today, things like chatsypt or rock which is Ex's generative AI,
or things like that, there's still a lot of limitations.
And one of the concerns that many people raise on
a regular basis is these things sollucinate. They just make
things up. You know, maybe it's correct eighty percent of
the time, and twenty percent of the time you don't
know if what you've got is right or not. You know,
(11:21):
that's one of the limitations. But to your point, you're
also seeing more and this is not new, but it's
come on rapidly and you're seeing it's spreading a lot
of fields. Purpose built AI things that are designed to
do a specific type of task. You know, chatsypt is,
it can't do everything, but it can do a lot
of different things fairly well.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
But there are other.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Ais out there that have a specific type of task
they're trying to do, and many of them are, you know,
pretty spectacular. I can tell you we use some AI
internally at Interest to do things like answer phone calls
and rout them to the right people faster. So rather
than have a human being kind of doing a routine, mundane,
boring task all day long, they can focus on higher
(12:01):
value things. They can focus on, you know, getting faster
resolutions for our clients that sort of stuff, but this
voice cloning thing, and it's not just voice, right, it's
deep fake video as well. There are some documented examples
in the media out there of people on how just
call it a video conference for lack of a better description,
(12:21):
where they think they're talking to a human being.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
There has been a plethora.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Of stories hitting the news about deep fake AI being
used for job interviews and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So I think it's never been more important, Kevin, for
people to understand.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
The old adage of you know, if you see it,
you can believe it kind of thing is no longer
true because much of this technology is good enough now,
especially if you're not aware this is a thing, especially
if you're not thinking, am I actually talking to a
human being here? Or am I somehow my talking to
some sort of AI agent, whether it's a voice sort
(12:57):
of video or whatever. And people go learn as much
about this as you can.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I mean, you don't need.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
To get into the business. Just go find some of
these stories. Read that CEO story.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
See, there's got to be and there's got to be
some way.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And I'm sure that somebody could probably make a fortune
at this, and maybe we should develop it ourselves. Dave,
and then we can retire being able to buy the
words that are used, the phrases that are used, or
maybe questions that you can ask to find out whether
in fact you're dealing with AI or a human being
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
I don't know if that technology is out there yet,
but that would certainly there are.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
There are lots of smart people working on that technology
to try to you know, whether it's watermark.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Something or yeah, sometimes have a way to know that
something is a deep daki the problem as I see it,
and also you know, I'm not I don't have deep,
deep knowledge in that space, especially the space of people
trying to help you determine whether something's legit or not.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Is the technology is moving very quickly, and the bad
guys are super creative.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Again, we could.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Spend this entire segment, Kevin, I could probably talk to
you for more than three hours. We could actual stories.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
We're heading in that direction, my friend.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
The creativity of the bad guys, it's quite insane.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And what's even more insane, Dave Hatter, is the legislators
trying to rain this in. They are at least what
three years behind.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
It's it's tough.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I can tell you. I end up, you know, talking
to legislators in Kentucky a lot on these technology topics,
trying to you know, give some insight and steer these conversations.
I'm genuinely an anti regulation sort of guy.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I know, this is such a wild.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
West out there, and it's it's moving so quickly, and
I'm really concerned both for business related fraud and individual fraud.
I mean, people are losing their life staving.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yes, Businesses are.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Losing huge amounts of money, are going out of business
because of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And it's one of those things and until it actually
hits you, you just, oh, that's the other guy.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
That's not going to happen to me. That's not going
to happen to me, exactly.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I fully understand how hard it is for people to
believe this.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
All right, we need to talk and we need to
talk about that because you presented this this what is
it for Scouts twenty five report? We got to bring
that up before we get out of here. Run up
against the clock, but we'll step out here for a
moment and we'll come back and hit that. My guest
is Dave Hatter. He is a cybersecurity expert and love
talking to him. I'm Kevin Gordon and for Brian Thomas,
(15:44):
fifty five KRC The talk station
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Fifty five KARC get ready to vote
Brian Thomas News
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