Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
The Karen Reid trial. The retrial starts today with jury selection.
Catherine Loftus is our expert on the red trial. She's
been following it from the get go. Good morning, counselor good.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Morning, how's everybody doing? Today's to day? It is?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Boy, aren't you the queen of all media? Now? I'm
seeing you everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It all started with you, guys. I go it to you, Billy, Lisa, there.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We go somebody else? Will we invented? I saw you
on WBZ TV. I think it was this morning. You
looked fabulous.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much. I'll be
on almost every day with Christina Rex. We'll be doing
afternoon reviews and hopefully we'll have kind of a breakdown
once a week. So between you guys in the morning
and Christina in the afternoon, hopefully we can get everybody
answer the questions that they have.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
All right, we have a ton of questions. I want
to start with this one. I know Lisa's got a
bunch of them. We all have questions. First of all,
that docu series which I watched start to finish, was
that good or ad for Karen Reid?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I think overall in terms of what's going to happen
in court, it's probably not good. I'm not sure if
you have seen, but the Commonwealth filed emotion to get
all of the both aired and unedited unaired footage which
has been provided to the court. What the Comwealth will
likely do is go through that, you know, piece by
(01:23):
piece and use some of those statements against misreading court.
So I think overall from a legal perspective, it was
not good for from a public perspective, I think people
had different sort of opinions on whether it was beneficial
to her or not. But as you guys know, this
sort of the public part of this case and then
there is the court part of the case, and this
(01:43):
two different implications. So in court, I don't think it
will likely help her.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What do you think are going to be the biggest
differences in this trial to sort of draw people back in?
And then also how what are they going to do
with Proctor since he's been terminated, How will that affect
the case?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So in terms of what is likely to be different,
I think that the prosecution is going to be much
more on the offensive than they were the last time.
Most of the time the presentation from the Commonwealth seemed
to be defending themselves against the defense's theory, which is
that Karen Reid was framed, this is a cover up
(02:20):
and a conspiracy, and so a lot of the testimony
that was taken and put on by the Commonwealth was
in fact trying to refute that. I don't think Attorney
Brennan is going to take that tax. He's really going
to try to prove what his theory of the cases
is that Karen Reid hit and killed John O'Keeffe. And
if any of that information relative to the defense theory
(02:41):
comes in, it will be after the defense presents theirs
in what we call a rebuttal case. So I think
it will look very different. It's going to be likely
much more concise, probably much clearer to understand, hopefully a
little bit shorter, but with one hundred and fifty witnesses
on the list, that might be more hope than anything
else at this point. So I think it's going to
(03:02):
look pretty different at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
But the fact is the fact that Proctor was fired
doesn't that prove that the case was mishandled.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So it doesn't in and of itself prove that the
case was mishandled. What it does is allows the defense
to use that as an attack on his reliability and
basically to be able to uge it to the jury.
Look at, not only are we telling you that this
is a state police trooper that engaged in misconduct, but
his own department found him in violation and said that
(03:34):
he had at least the appearance of bias, and that
the manner in which he engaged with the defend in
Karen read and speaking about her. So it gives the
defense certainly more ammo in there what we call the
vote and defense, which is that the investigation was so
subpar and insufficient that the jury cannot convict her beyond
a reasonable doubt. So it certainly helps. I don't know
(03:57):
that it's going to be that much work, given how
bad it was the first time for Michael Procter. I mean,
we all heard those text messages, we all heard the
way he's speaking about her, So he came off pretty
bad the first time around, and I think he's likely
to guard to come off the same this time.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
How long do you think this jury process will take
the selection.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I think it's likely to be a few weeks. Last time,
I believe we were five or six days to pick
the entire jury. There was a lot of publicity, so
obviously this was a little bit slower. There's even more
publicity this time, all the documentaries, all the articles that
have come out. So what the court is trying to do,
and both parties have come off in the defense, is
(04:37):
not just find people who haven't ever heard of this,
because that's unrealistic in Massachusetts at this point, particularly in
NORFL country. So they're trying to find jurors that can
be fair and impossible that while maybe they have heard
of the case, they haven't made a decision. But that's
going to be difficult because so many people are in
fact following along. So I would bet we are probably
(04:58):
somewhere around the two week made may be a little
bit over getting up on a three week mark to
pick a jury. They have quite a few coming in.
I think there's one hundred and eighty five that were
summonsed in per day for today, So yeah, per day,
per day. Yep. It's a very big pool because you know,
as you guys know, and as your listeners know, so
many of us are intimately following this case, and so
(05:21):
a large number of these jurors are going to be automatically,
you know, struck for cause because they can't possibly be
impartial or fair to Karen Reid. So it's going to
be a little bit of a lengthy process, but I
think we will get a jury. I'd say probably two
weeks or so.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But in a weird twist last week, Reid's team hired
a juror from the first trial as a member of
the defense team. Is that person even a lawyer?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
She is a lawyer. She's been a lawyer for a
couple of years. I believe she was in labor and
employment law prior to sitting on the jury. And I'm
not sure she had practiced between you know, getting off
of the jury and being hired by attorney and Nettie's office.
But one of those things that I don't know that
it has ever happened anywhere any jury, sticks whatever before that,
(06:13):
a former jury becomes an attorney for the defendant. But
as with everything in this case, it's it's always a
twist in a turn.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, would this juror lawyer so to speak? Do you
think Reed's team has something up their sleeve?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, I think what they'll use her for is to
get some insight into what the jury was thinking while
she wasn't a deliberating juror. So that means that they
the jurors before they deliberate, they're not allowed to, you know,
converse about the case. They're not allowed to discuss it.
But you know that you understand, you know, when you're
spending enough time with people over months and months, you
get a general feel of how other jurors may have
(06:48):
felt about evidence things like that. So she likely is
to play more of a jury consulted part than actually
as an attorney. I don't expect the chill take any witnesses,
that she'll argue a court or anything like that at
but it's certainly a win for the defense team to
get a little bit of insight into the jury, which
you almost never do.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So potentially a couple one hundred potential jurors will be
paraded in today and probably more tomorrow, more the next day.
But you know what, Catherine, Welcome back to The Billy
and Lisa Morning Show. Karen Reid Part two,
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
The Karen Reid trial. The retrial starts today with jury selection.
Catherine Loftus is our expert on the red trial. She's
been following it from the get go. Good morning, counselor good.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Morning, how's everybody doing? Today's to day? It is?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Boy, aren't you the queen of all media? Now? I'm
seeing you everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It all started with you, guys. I go it to you, Billy, Lisa, there.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We go somebody else? Will we invented? I saw you
on WBZ TV. I think it was this morning. You
looked fabulous.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much. I'll be
on almost every day with Christina Rex. We'll be doing
afternoon reviews and hopefully we'll have kind of a breakdown
once a week. So between you guys in the morning
and Christina in the afternoon, hopefully we can get everybody
answer the questions that they have.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
All right, we have a ton of questions. I want
to start with this one. I know Lisa's got a
bunch of them. We all have questions. First of all,
that docu series which I watched start to finish, was
that good or ad for Karen Reid?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I think overall in terms of what's going to happen
in court, it's probably not good. I'm not sure if
you have seen, but the Commonwealth filed emotion to get
all of the both aired and unedited unaired footage which
has been provided to the court. What the Comwealth will
likely do is go through that, you know, piece by
(01:23):
piece and use some of those statements against misreading court.
So I think overall from a legal perspective, it was
not good for from a public perspective, I think people
had different sort of opinions on whether it was beneficial
to her or not. But as you guys know, this
sort of the public part of this case and then
there is the court part of the case, and this
(01:43):
two different implications. So in court, I don't think it
will likely help her.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What do you think are going to be the biggest
differences in this trial to sort of draw people back in?
And then also how what are they going to do
with Proctor since he's been terminated, How will that affect
the case?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So in terms of what is likely to be different,
I think that the prosecution is going to be much
more on the offensive than they were the last time.
Most of the time the presentation from the Commonwealth seemed
to be defending themselves against the defense's theory, which is
that Karen Reid was framed, this is a cover up
(02:20):
and a conspiracy, and so a lot of the testimony
that was taken and put on by the Commonwealth was
in fact trying to refute that. I don't think Attorney
Brennan is going to take that tax. He's really going
to try to prove what his theory of the cases
is that Karen Reid hit and killed John O'Keeffe. And
if any of that information relative to the defense theory
(02:41):
comes in, it will be after the defense presents theirs
in what we call a rebuttal case. So I think
it will look very different. It's going to be likely
much more concise, probably much clearer to understand, hopefully a
little bit shorter, but with one hundred and fifty witnesses
on the list, that might be more hope than anything
else at this point. So I think it's going to
(03:02):
look pretty different at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
But the fact is the fact that Proctor was fired
doesn't that prove that the case was mishandled.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So it doesn't in and of itself prove that the
case was mishandled. What it does is allows the defense
to use that as an attack on his reliability and
basically to be able to uge it to the jury.
Look at, not only are we telling you that this
is a state police trooper that engaged in misconduct, but
his own department found him in violation and said that
(03:34):
he had at least the appearance of bias, and that
the manner in which he engaged with the defend in
Karen read and speaking about her. So it gives the
defense certainly more ammo in there what we call the
vote and defense, which is that the investigation was so
subpar and insufficient that the jury cannot convict her beyond
a reasonable doubt. So it certainly helps. I don't know
(03:57):
that it's going to be that much work, given how
bad it was the first time for Michael Procter. I mean,
we all heard those text messages, we all heard the
way he's speaking about her, So he came off pretty
bad the first time around, and I think he's likely
to guard to come off the same this time.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
How long do you think this jury process will take
the selection.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I think it's likely to be a few weeks. Last time,
I believe we were five or six days to pick
the entire jury. There was a lot of publicity, so
obviously this was a little bit slower. There's even more
publicity this time, all the documentaries, all the articles that
have come out. So what the court is trying to do,
and both parties have come off in the defense, is
(04:37):
not just find people who haven't ever heard of this,
because that's unrealistic in Massachusetts at this point, particularly in
NORFL country. So they're trying to find jurors that can
be fair and impossible that while maybe they have heard
of the case, they haven't made a decision. But that's
going to be difficult because so many people are in
fact following along. So I would bet we are probably
(04:58):
somewhere around the two week made may be a little
bit over getting up on a three week mark to
pick a jury. They have quite a few coming in.
I think there's one hundred and eighty five that were
summonsed in per day for today, So yeah, per day,
per day. Yep. It's a very big pool because you know,
as you guys know, and as your listeners know, so
many of us are intimately following this case, and so
(05:21):
a large number of these jurors are going to be automatically,
you know, struck for cause because they can't possibly be
impartial or fair to Karen Reid. So it's going to
be a little bit of a lengthy process, but I
think we will get a jury. I'd say probably two
weeks or so.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But in a weird twist last week, Reid's team hired
a juror from the first trial as a member of
the defense team. Is that person even a lawyer?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
She is a lawyer. She's been a lawyer for a
couple of years. I believe she was in labor and
employment law prior to sitting on the jury. And I'm
not sure she had practiced between you know, getting off
of the jury and being hired by attorney and Nettie's office.
But one of those things that I don't know that
it has ever happened anywhere any jury, sticks whatever before that,
(06:13):
a former jury becomes an attorney for the defendant. But
as with everything in this case, it's it's always a
twist in a turn.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, would this juror lawyer so to speak? Do you
think Reed's team has something up their sleeve?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, I think what they'll use her for is to
get some insight into what the jury was thinking while
she wasn't a deliberating juror. So that means that they
the jurors before they deliberate, they're not allowed to, you know,
converse about the case. They're not allowed to discuss it.
But you know that you understand, you know, when you're
spending enough time with people over months and months, you
get a general feel of how other jurors may have
(06:48):
felt about evidence things like that. So she likely is
to play more of a jury consulted part than actually
as an attorney. I don't expect the chill take any witnesses,
that she'll argue a court or anything like that at
but it's certainly a win for the defense team to
get a little bit of insight into the jury, which
you almost never do.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So potentially a couple one hundred potential jurors will be
paraded in today and probably more tomorrow, more the next day.
But you know what, Catherine, Welcome back to The Billy
and Lisa Morning Show. Karen Reid Part two,
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