April 23, 2025 • 49 mins
We’re taking a closer look at a topic that we’ve touched on briefly before: Media covering the effects and inner workings of cults. The HBO documentary Going Clear is one of the most recognizable documentaries about the Church of Scientology. Celebrities like Tom Cruise have deep ties to this cult that was founded by prolific author L. Ron Hubbard.
Some interesting aspects of this belief system are the need to pay huge sums of money to advance to higher levels of the organization and the fact that many aspects are not even explained to members until they have reached specific levels.
For all its focus on mental health, are believers actually involved in activities that support good mental health?
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50% Facts is a Spreaker Prime podcast on OCN – the Obscure Celebrity Network.
____
Hosted by Mike Farr (@silentmikke) https://www.instagram.com/silentmikke/ and Jim McDonald (@thejimmcd). https://www.instagram.com/thejimmcd/
Produced by Jim McDonald
Production assistance by Sam McDonald and Sebastian Brambila.
Theme by Aaron Moore. Show art by Joseph Manzo (@jmanzo523)
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/50-facts-with-silent-mike-jim-mcd--5538735/support.
Some interesting aspects of this belief system are the need to pay huge sums of money to advance to higher levels of the organization and the fact that many aspects are not even explained to members until they have reached specific levels.
For all its focus on mental health, are believers actually involved in activities that support good mental health?
Join our Discord for free at goodcompanydiscord.com!
Check out our gym (Third Street Barbell) at ThirdStreetBarbell.com https://www.thirdstreetbarbell.com/ and subscribe for updates about our apparel line at goodcompanyapparel.com https://3sb.co/! Local memberships and international fresh fits! Get early access to our NEXT DROP!
Check out our podcast website: 50percentfacts.com https://www.50percentfacts.com/
50% Facts is a Spreaker Prime podcast on OCN – the Obscure Celebrity Network.
____
Hosted by Mike Farr (@silentmikke) https://www.instagram.com/silentmikke/ and Jim McDonald (@thejimmcd). https://www.instagram.com/thejimmcd/
Produced by Jim McDonald
Production assistance by Sam McDonald and Sebastian Brambila.
Theme by Aaron Moore. Show art by Joseph Manzo (@jmanzo523)
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/50-facts-with-silent-mike-jim-mcd--5538735/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right, we're in Okay. So we just did a
thing we don't usually do, and that's we started a
conversation that I thought we didn't have a necessarily a
whole lot to say about it, and we did have
a lot to say about it, and so that is
its own episode and now we're plowing into Going Clear.
We had a conversation in the during the last review
that we did with our friend Dean sodoris about a
(00:35):
skateboard company that basically collapsed because its owner because of
its owners association with the Church of Scientology, and so
we said, geez, we don't I don't know that much
about about the inner workings of of of Scientology. And
(00:57):
the sort of like true to Scientology documentary is Going Clear. Yeah,
about ten years.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Ago or so, we're on a run of Colts, Ladies
and jentlemen join us. Colts have always kind of interested me.
This first thing I'll say is, this isn't the movie
I thought it was. Okay, so I've seen this one
and then I rewatched it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Which one? Did you?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I told you it was like The King of Queen's Lady.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, Leah Remini.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think there's like a whole one almost based on her.
It's yeah, and I thought it was this one, but
she wasn't even mentioned, right, No, she.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Wasn't mentioned at all. It was Paul Haggis and it
was that actor guy.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Obviously John Travolta and were mentioned. Oh, Jean John was
kind of interviewed, but I don't think he was interviewed
for this, right. That was pieces.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It was all pieces, because a new.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
One would have been so good, a new John Travolta
interview on this, And I told sub us that all
the air is that this one's good, and it is.
It's kind of like a good historic give you an
idea of what the fuck's going on in this place movie?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It almost feels like a history doc in a good way.
Where the one with her, The King of Queen's Lady Leah,
felt a little bit more emotional. And maybe it's probably
newer because it felt like it was just shot a
little bit better. And I think it's mostly again, I've
seen all these when they came out, which is, yeah,
probably eight years ago, so I don't fully remember, but
(02:18):
it does feel more on her with some other folks.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So yeah, I was actually a series that ran from
twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen. Lea Remedy, Scientology and the
Aftermath was sort of a follow up to this, although
it was not an HBO.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I definitely didn't watch four years worth, but I was.
I'm sure you didn't either. It was a good amount
and it was pretty entertaining.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
A thing that I will say is I have not
watched this before, but I had seen segments of it before,
and I think it was when Lea Remedy's show was
on that like one of the national news things did
a I don't know it was like Nightline or something
like that did a long segment on Scientology. So I
(03:02):
had seen a bunch of this stuff before. The history
part is not the whole not the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
The history part is funny because it's like, uh, like
everyone even now, like Sebas or whatever, knows like scientology
know like, oh, some weirdos or something, but you don't
know what's going on. And then they really did just
prop Propagandai's celebrities to make it cool and like known, yeah,
because like it. I just can't imagine it was that popular,
even though I think they had already bought the Hollywood
(03:27):
place in the nineties but yeah, I think so. So
they must have been obviously racking in the dough somewhere, yeah,
because I was thinking, like, I just feel like it
couldn't and you can obviously speak on a better meme
because I was born in eighty eight, but I just
feel like it wasn't publicly a thing as much until
like Tom Cruise.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, Tom Cruise, and and well probably Travolta and yeah,
and then Cruise, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Because like and then he was already dead by then,
you know, Elron, Oh, yeah, you know, and so like yeah,
so I guess for those that don't know scientology is
based is a I guess religion based on l Ron Hubbard,
who was a creative writer, which I didn't know. He
I think still, at least in twenty fifteen, owned like
(04:10):
the most books ever written. Is that what they said, Yeah, which.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Is insane, over a thousand books.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, they said he's a typing fiend.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
The one that most people would would know was Battlefield Earth,
which the first part of it was made into a
terrible movie with John Travolta. Oh, I didn't know, really
really makes a really bad makes sense one of the
literally one of the worst movies of all time.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, Like with her the documentary Leia, they go a
little bit more into what he wrote this one that's
kind of Glazer, but like he basically wrote like alien movies,
you know, like he's a sci fi alien guy, and
that was turned into a religion. Yeah, that was his
main thing.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah. And then so yeah, he basically promotes this thing.
I actually I told someone this too. I feel like, like,
obviously el Ron's off his rock or a good amount,
but I actually feel like maybe he wasn't that malicious
for a cult leader, just based on the fact that
he kind of like bought into his own shit. You know,
(05:10):
so he was already just screwy in the head rather
than like I'm gonna make everyone sip kool aid and die. Yeah.
You know, like I'm not saying he's a good person,
but in the cult leader spectrum, I think he's more
on the good side than they drink kool aid and
I'm gonna kill you all, just based again on the
fact that like he truly started to believe like they said,
he spent hours of it by himself on that machine.
(05:33):
You know, like he's just poor guy's insane.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
He's not like auditing on the E forgot the name already,
but they basically had this electric yeah meter where you're
like just digging into your subconscious truths and memories and
filtering and it's like it's galvanic skin response. So it's
very similar to to a light detector, but it's only
one part of the light detector equation. It's like one
(05:58):
a third of it, right, and light folks, yeah don't
prove shit.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, they're very bad.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
They do not prove shit.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And so like yeah, basically they they the one of
the core proponents or components of this religion is this
machine that you do alone I think what you figure
it out, but eventually first you do it with someone
like a leader, and you're digging into your subconscious and
they compared it kind of to like a Freudian styles
like psych session, where you're you're kind of like confessing
(06:28):
and like confronting this stuff, which again like doesn't sound
like that terrible. Like obviously there's this money factor on
the back end and Elron going through taxes and you know,
figuring all that out. But on the on the core,
he's not like and I know some people got abused later,
but that sounds like it was like the next guy, right,
Like it sounds like Elron's just off his rocker and
(06:50):
then like kind of wanted to help people. Like I'm
not saying he's a good guy again, Like, but on
the spectrum of bad people, I think there's a lot
worse people than Elron where second in power definitely was
on a power trip and and use that to probably
lock people in closets and fucking slave labor and who
knows what.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
See. To me, that is a really good example of
of cult behavior where you start to see like lieutenants
rise and they yet even higher on their own supply,
and cruelty becomes the like sort of the main message. Yeah.
(07:28):
The Stanford study, Yeah, which there's I mean that the
results of that are very up and up and sure
because it's not like a study study, but it's a
great example. But people in these circumstances, particularly you know,
certain personality traits and probably walking into it with low
self esteem and whatever, and they actually start to just
(07:52):
get off on punishing people. It turns into a BDSM
almost situation.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know. The Stanford study.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Is it where they have people like lower and power
and people.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Basically they set up like a prison in the school. Yeah,
all with students, and you just like randomly became one
of the other. And yeah, it's not like a great
documented study in terms of data and control group, et cetera,
et cetera, but it's just an easy thing to point
to when you're looking at like certain personalities probably aren't
made for power.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, and we're definitely seeing that here. A thing
that was not mentioned in this at all, which I
was kind of surprised by, is that Miskevitch, the guy
who runs Scientology. Now he's still around, right, Yeah, he's
still around, but I don't think he's been seen in
a bit. But his wife really hasn't been seen in years.
(08:43):
It's like she disappeared, just entirely disappeared. And the question
is always like where is she and what happened to her?
Is she still alive?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Like what what's the story? There's no good explanation.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Is there any new celebt berties that have joined this thing?
See that's a good question, right because because them like
disappearing or like Scientology has talked about less now, but
also Hollywood has changed, right, Like the modern day celebrity
are the same celebrities. I think, like name a new
one that came up, Like you can name a handful,
but like like Will Smith, Denzel, Tom Cruise, like there's
(09:19):
still the celebrities and two new generations. You know, you're
looking to the internet the logan Paul's the whatever, the athletes,
but like celebrityhood in general has kind of changed. So
I'd wondered if anyone actually like crept in there.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Elizabeth Moss, I know the name, ironically, Handmaid's Tale.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
That's yeah, not like crazy modern.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Look Laura Prepon, who was on that seventies show. She
was the ginger chick. She left the church.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
There's a lot of issue on seventy shows in there.
Oh yeah, someone else's get arrested or something.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Danny Masterson. Yeah, and it was several years ago and
he got convicted rape. But then yeah, and the church
like paid for his defense and it didn't make any difference.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
In regular church or scientology scientology oh one too. Yes,
they just grabbed all of that seventies show, not all
of them. Who knows what Ashton's knowing?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, yeah, uh, he seems to be cool.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know, it sounds like it. I don't know.
Because because then there's something weird with Mela. He married Mila, right, yeah,
but there's like a weird age gap.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
She's younger for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think she was like sixteen on the show.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh yeah, she was. She was very young. She was
she was playing her age.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Where he was like twenty seven playing eighteen. Yeah, there
was some weirdness.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Michael Penya is on this list of current members. Yes,
well you would. You would probably know him from the
the An movies.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I was gonna say,
what's the end to watch.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And to watch one of my favorite movies again the time?
So good.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, he's really good. But even him, like he's not
like a new celeb. He's a new movies obviously, but
like he's an old celeb, you know, like scientology is
like whatever cool factor they had, like Hollywood. They kind
of went down with Hollywood. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, So Kirsty Alley dead, but she was a scientologist.
Ann Archer who was with Ellen DeGeneres for a while.
Jenna Elfman was Sanny Elfman. Jenna Elfman related to Danny,
I don't think so. And Giovanni Ribisi you've seen him
(11:32):
in a million things.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That's sad Michael Penya, I do like Michael Penya.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I think Nancy Cartwright.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I think Bart Simpson's voice really Oh interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
See that's like old Hollywood though, came on like eighty five.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And I think there was like a rumor where it
was like, do you know Sabrina Carpenter? Yeah, I guess
I think that's her aunt.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
See that's why I'm waiting for and I'm waiting for
a new name like Sabrina carp I.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Think she was trying to probably convert her into being
a scientologist.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, yeah, and even like the conversion, right like colts
sometimes obviously cults are broad, but a lot of times
they really feed on the lost and loose, right, those
that have nothing going for him, right, Like the best
example is Ninja turtles, right, they grab all the what
are they call it? The what are the you don't
know the ninja's names? No, the bad Ninjas clan clans. No,
(12:22):
it really is like the clans.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
It's something like it's something clan, the Fist clan. Yeah,
see it's the Foot clan. The Foot fetish clan are
in the movies.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
They're high school like dropout kids, right, yeah, right, so
that's what I think of Colt, and I'm sure many
do represent that were this again, Like, I don't want
to defend Alron because you're all going to think I'm crazy.
But like l Ron sells it, he sells it well
and very calculated because he doesn't sell it as a religion,
and he hides all the weird ship toll. You're a
(12:57):
level eight and he've already already bought in, right, the
normal shit is just like yeah, man, let's like clear
your mind, let's make you feel better. Right. He sells
it as like therapy and life coaching. And then you
pay one hundred thousand, and then you level up and
learn a little something. Then you pay a one hundred thousand. Yeah,
you learn a little something. Then you pay you know,
three hundred thousand, and now you realize that you're talking
to you know, Zen on the fucking alien. Then then
(13:19):
you're like, oh fuck you know, but the first three
steps you're like, yeah, man, like I just need a
little help. Yeah, And this guy's smart. He's written more
books than anyone we know smart.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Right, shit, now it would be all AI or as
our education.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I'm gonna break his record with AI books. Fuck you,
l Ron.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Or as our education secretary likes to say a one.
For some reason, she's in Steak sauce. I don't know others. Uh,
this one is a bit of a surprise. Jerry Seinfeld
was apparently involved for a while. Jerry, but he's left,
but he still speaks highly of the group for some reason.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Because he never made level eight. He never worshiped an alien.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
And uh Brad Pitt, Yeah, I remember that one, but.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
He left as well. And then Katie Holmes I saw
on Broadway because of Tommy, because of tom Yeah, there's
a whole bit in the movie about how after they
drove what's her face away? Leah No, uh, Tom Cruise's
(14:26):
first wife. Oh yeah, ye Australian actress blonde, blonde actually
sort of strawberry.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I forgot kidnap.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Why am I having kid Yes? Yeh kidman? Yeah yeah,
uh him complaining, Uh no that was Ama Thurman.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Isn't kid min in a Batman? Yeah she is.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
No, she's just she's just a reporter or something, or
psychologist or something. She was doing with Val Kilmer. R
I p Val Kilmer. If you haven't seen the valcamer documentary, folks,
I would suggest that you watch it because he's interesting
and crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I was gonna say, maybe a little too heavy for me.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Super crazy. Yeah, I mean it's got his light moments
and his dark moments. But I thought I thought it
was really good, and I was I was kind of
a fan that knew he was sort of a little
maybe a little bit of a difficult person. But I
kind oft know people who he was friends with, he
was really close with. He was he got close again
with speaking of Tom Cruise, with Tom Cruise like they
(15:29):
always were.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I don't know about Tom Man.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I don't know about Tom either. That that the fake
smile and laugh, which is part of the deal. They
talk about that and the thing that that that fake smile,
fake laugh. Everything's fine. Look, well you're seeing like a
lot of like people, not just him. Yeah, you see
a lot of.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
People in general, but anyone, like I've had some well
we'll keep it private, but some encounters with folks that
are creeping into colts because they're still around everywhere, you know,
whether it be religious, whether it be like this business
y stuff, and there's always like this look on the
person's face. You know, it's just like a total lost,
kind of glazed eye. Yeah, it's just very you know,
(16:08):
and you see that in regular people too, when they're
really going through it and they're kind of out out
of their body. You know, they're really in distress. But
that's obviously when they're more susceptible to fall into something
like that. The thing with these things is like when
Tom Cruise is on stage speaking to the crowd, and like,
obviously he's going to be like the main speaker, right
because everyone knows, yeah, he's the fucking face. It felt
(16:28):
like we're at a Disney show. Didn't feel like the
set looks like some kind of Laddin ass. You know,
like you have you seen like at least I've never
even been to one. I've been to Disneyland, but they
have like big old shows like that. Have you seen that?
I've seen you know online? Yeah, yeah, the same with me.
I've never actually I've been to Disneyland many times, but
never been to like one of those actual shows. But yeah,
well you're Indiana Jones. I think it was a real
(16:50):
famous show for a while and they're literally like playing
the movie with the rocket shit all in front of you.
That's what it feels like. Like they have the weird
ass gold shit. The building looks giant, that auditorium like
a fit ten thousand people, and he's just up there, yeah,
cheese in his face off, talking nonsense.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But the weirdest fucking part of the whole thing, and
that's in more than one scene, is them like turning
and saluting the portrait of el Ron. That was fucking weird.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
No, And he's so just like odd looking to begin with,
you know, because you go like you'll go salute like
George Washington or something, Abraham Lincoln. You know, they look
kind of normal, they look on a stoic, they look
like they're a fucking soldier something. Elron just looks like
he looks like a comic book writer, and you're looking
at what the fuck.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Paul Thomas Anderson made a movie called The Master, which
is a slightly disguised version of Scientology. I have never
watched it.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I haven't either, but people, some people put that in
like their top ten all time.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I know, it's supposed to be a great movie.
And I'm kind of a Paul Thomas Anderson fan, at
least the first couple of movies. I'm a huge fan
of Magnolia and Billie Unites yeah, and his first movie
Heart eight is really good.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Did he get did he get like I felt? Not
like I don't know what the term is. But inspired
by Johnny then because Boogie Night's John Trufflet, isn't it.
Oh No, I'm gona thinking of the other movie.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Boogie Knights is. No that you're thinking of Saturday Night Fever.
Boogie Knights is. It's a big ensemble cast, but that's
it's where Johnny Uh oh Wohlburg broke through. But that
was an amazing cast. But that actually the the what's
(18:35):
his name? I'm gonna have to look it up because
I'm having having I'm having that day folks where I
cannot remember ship. Uh sorry, this is great radio. Uh.
(18:55):
John c Riley is in it, don cheatle How old
is it?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Uh? You know John c Riley, I've seen Steps.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, yeah, ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Damn.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's such a good movie. Riley, Joe Anna Gleason. But
the person I'm looking for is not showing up? Why
is he not showing up? Phillip Seymour Hoffman.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Phillips More Hoffman plays the Elron Hubbard character in the
Master and in the the person following him was played
by well Keene Phoenix. Trust it sucks that we lost
Philip seymour Hoffman. He was so good in everything, Like,
(19:46):
I don't know if he had a bad.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Performance, he could have shoved him in the new Harry Potter.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh yeah, have you have you seen some of the casting.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I don't mind. I'm pretty I'm pretty open until it
comes out. You know, I'll judge them after because everyone's
always gonna make a uh well.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Some of the same people that were involved in the
in producing the movies. So I mean hopefully the standards
stay high.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I think it's gonna be good. And HBO has a
track record they've made good series, you know. Yeah, I'm
all for it, and I think it starts, uh filming now,
but soon. I think it's supposed to be like twenty
twenty six, twenty twenty seven, you're supposed to see some
I'm stoked on it. I'm stoked on a little Harry
Potter action. Yeah. People are pissed. I guess they've only
announced like six of them. But it's a Homeboys good uh.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Dumbledore the oh Jalthgow is playing.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I think kill it.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, and like people complaining that he's not English, but
he is, he's half English, he just didn't grow up there. Yeah,
who cares, and he's got an acceptable we're gonna complain
about everything. Well yeah people. Yeah, that's and that really
comes down to like fandom versus cults because there and
there's a you know, there's a Venn diagram that has
a pretty significant crossover between like rabid fandom and cult behavior.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, yeah, Actually that's something I was going to look
up what the hell the definition of a cult?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, I was going to do that last time too,
because it does seem like obviously can't be like hard locked,
because then you could, I mean, it has to be. Yeah,
I don't know, because there's so many there's so many
things you can point to that feel culty. They may
not hit that, yeah, like yeah, like being allowed to
leave or being judged to leave, but like that's you know, yeah,
(21:27):
if you leave a friend group, you're gonna be judged. Like,
it doesn't mean your friend group's a cult.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
So the so the AI definition of a cult. A
cult is generally defined as a social group characterized by
an extreme focus on a leader or ideology, often involving
unusual beliefs, practices, and a high degree of control over
its members' lives. These groups frequently utilize manipulative psychological tactics,
(21:57):
isolate members from the outside world, and may engage socially
even behavior and I mean isolating. Talk about isolating man
the extreme Isola isolation. They've got the leaders of the
of the group that that was kind of the first
group within scientology, the the the the sea people.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so funny, that's just so weird.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And then they put them in these barracks that are
like falling apart and infested with vermin and insects, and
they don't let them eat much, and they don't let
them sleep, and they just keep like yeah and a
working and and submitting them to all kinds of crazy
(22:39):
psychological torture.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Even Leah talked about that, and I think she was
like higher up right, because the more money you pay are,
the more fame you have, they treated you slightly better.
And I think she even talked about again I haven't
seen this in like eight years, but I think she
talked about like having to cleaner room with the toothbrush
and shit, you know, like shit of that nature, and
having to live there for a certain amount of time
or whatever the fuck in my again experiences which are minor,
but there been in my life. Uh yeah. The isolation
(23:04):
factor is the one that like raises my red flag
cause like unrealistic belief, Like yeah, man, like but am
I worried about like flat earthers? You know, like yeah,
there's probably some danger there, but like I don't care,
you know, like is that unrealistic?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Probably, but they can go believe I live in a dome.
You know, it's not gonna fuck me up. But like
you start to isolate and say like, well you can
only you can. Oh, your mom doesn't believe in flat earth.
You can't talk to your mom. Now you're like, okay,
Like now we're causing issues. And some of the people
I've cross paths with buddies, friends, acquaintances that were heading
into a business ee relationship or a religiously group and
(23:39):
they're like, yeah, like you either bring your homies with
you or they're not your homies. And they're like, all right,
well that's weird, you.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Know, like a separating family.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah yeah, You're like, well, you know, I grew up
a pretty strict Catholic, you know, and not once in church,
not once with my parents, not once with every Catholic
person I've ever crossed paths with, did they ever tell
me not to be friends, talk to hang out, even Mary,
although in the book it says not to. You know
by their book that they don't want you to marry
(24:07):
non Catholics. But not once you know they're gonna reason
eyebrow at you.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
They'll still come to my wedding. You know, I go
marry a Jewish personal Muslim person, They're gonna come to
my wedding. They're not gonna cut you out of their life,
you know. And I know because a lot of people
are non religious and they point fingers at the Church.
And I'm not saying the Church is perfect by any means.
Every organization we look at Boy Scouts, we can look
a fucking everything. They're gonna have issues. But I bring
that up to show like the differentiation of my experience
(24:32):
of nineteen years being Catholic versus you know, three years
or six months in fucking scientology. They don't pull you
away from anybody, you know, they really don't, and they
don't really like shame you. And again, like coolicism is
like the oldest Christianity, arguably some of the most strict
besides some newer stuff that you know, some people think
it's a little weird. I think it's a little weird,
(24:53):
but you know, like it is very traditional, and they
just never like put that pressure on me.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Ever, And in sharp contrast that I grew up in
a in a Protestant church that wasn't technically evangelical, but
it had like shades of evangelical to it, and and
we basically we were told that h. J. Dubb was
(25:20):
was a cult. Jehovah's Witnesses, Oh yeah, Mormons a cult,
and hang onunder your hat Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah yeah. I just don't know if you can have
like forty of the fucking Europe be a cult.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, no, it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't really conform
to the two. But that's you know, I mean it's dogma.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
That's that's when you grew up in a small town, right,
which doubles down on that. Yeah, like if half your
city's in this one church, you know, now they got more.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That was definitely not the case, but it was a
small town.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah. I just feel like the smaller town you get,
the more control, like all these Obviously this happened in
La which is fucking crazy. But the other kind of
cult stuff, you know, the sip in the kool aids
and all that always happened in weird rural spots. The
Fat Loss one that we followed, it wasn't even Knoxville.
It was in like some small rich town outside of
in Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But Jonestown was actually people from the Bay Area.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was gonna say that. I mean,
this is Deadmo of Beverly Hills like it, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah,
I don't know how it all works, but yeah, like
religious stuff can obviously get weird, you know, but then
it's like, yeah, what's the majority of what you're talking about?
And a lot of people point to places like you know, uh,
you know, Latter day Saints and Jehovah's Witness for being
(26:36):
a little odd because they are a little different, you know,
But yeah, where's the line of cult? You know? I
would uh, I've been around a lot of Mormon people,
and I never felt that they couldn't be friends with me,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I grew up with Mormon's, I grew up with with
J Dubbs. Yeah, you know, I never a lot of
a lot a lot of Catholics because I because I
grew up in a very Latin, fairly Hispanic area. Yeah,
and and uh uh that was never an issue. It's
never an issue. It's cool. Yeah, But I have never
even like knowingly met someone who isn't it.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Like yeah, like they're gonna tell us that's yeah, that's
the number one they're vegan meme, the CrossFit or whatever,
that's the number one meme of cold. But to you, yeah,
they might not be doing regular people. Shit, maybe not.
What's weird to me is a lot of these colds,
at least the ones we've cover on the show, this
one and then the fat Loss one. Yeah, they were
around rich people. Yeah, which you think would be the opposite. Again,
(27:30):
what I talked about the foot clan. Normally they would
prey on the foot clans one hundred percent real. So
this is a good analysis that you would pray, Yeah,
you would pray on the week or the lost or
the you know, the people without families, Like that's the
foot clan joke. But in my head that works too.
And again I'm not a cold expert by any means.
(27:50):
I've just seen a couple of docs. But it makes
more sense to kind of use that power dynamic and
the manipulation on someone who's so lost with no parents
and no friends and hate school and doing drugs or
whatever versus yeah, rich, rich ass white people in Tennessee
or literal Hollywood. Yeah, you know, because like what, like
(28:11):
what are you searching? And I guess we're all human
and we're all searching for something internally, you know. And
that's where l Ron I guess was a genius.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
He's just like Stage one is therapy, Like it just
feels like a different form of therapy, and that's how
he kind of sold it.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
But even people who didn't feel like they had any
issues just like, oh, what where's your pain?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Like who hurt you?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You know? Like yeah, uh sea bass reactions.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I felt really bad for the lady that what was it?
I think she got to the eighth level. Yeah, and
they were telling her that a bunch of people were
going into her body or like spirits are going out
to body. Yeah, and she just felt like clinically like depressed. Yeah,
and the whole tire of thing. I was like, Oh,
I feel really bad.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, they're trying to scan you for whatever they call them.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
They had some weird Namethan's.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah fans and they're like, oh, you gotta keep on
scanning yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I just like, I just feel bad. That's how you
keep them trapped, right, Like if if you think people
want to force an issue on someone, I mean, fitness
is kind of like that too, Bro, you keep like
the internet does that, Like they'll just be forcing problems
on you, you know, like, oh, you don't sleep perfectly
for nine and a half hours without even rolling over once,
you need red light therapy. I'm a human, isn't okay
(29:17):
if I roll around a little bit? Like, yeah, I agree,
he sleeps very important.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
But that's the principle of a certain kind of sales,
you know.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah you have pain points.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, create a problem and then and then offer a solution.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, pain points. And there is fine lines there too,
you know, because I like sales and I like business,
but like, yeah, if you're just gonna fucking manipulate the
live and shit out of people, yeah like that. Poor
Later they all talked about it. He talked about himself,
right that, like el Ron's just fucking scanning his own
ass trying to find everything wrong forever.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Oh I think he had his friend, Yeah, when he
was close to build a machine to try to take
out something, and he just built like what a test
the coil.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Youah, like a yeah yeah youah, like a Ghostbusters fucking
get the demons out of you. So weird.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, I mean obviously he was mentally ill. Yeah, that's
why I give him, like straight up mentally ill. I
think that's like my you know, like my conscious pass
on the guy, Like he was just very sick, you know,
like I don't know if he was evil. I don't
know if he was the devil. I think he was
just maybe started kind of weird and then became insane. Yeah,
(30:19):
or and and somehow that vibed with people. And that's
just a weird thing about cults I don't understand. And
I think maybe my personality is just not that I
never buy fulling into fucking anything. Yeah, I mean I
just don't. I never have. I'm not. I I never
really had heroes exactly. And you know, they're people that
(30:42):
I admire, but that's different, and they're not necessarily celebrities.
But I wouldn't necessarily take the things that they said
like heart about some weird thing that feels off to
me that they believe.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I wonder if there's been any looks into MK Ultra
and l Ron because a lot of timings of these
uh colts seem to be similar times like what's the
kool Aid the famous ass kool Aid? Uh, the main colt?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Uh, what's his name kool Aid Jonestown?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, what's the guy's name?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Jim Jones?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, Jim Jones. Right, So there's been ties of MK
Ultra and Jim Jones and the CIA in like that
same era that the you know, there's documents are not
that showed that they were basically teaching Jim Jones how
to make colts right and that this was some experimental shiit. Like,
I wonder if there's any and it's similar timeline to
(31:39):
when l Ron was kicking around.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
He was also like in the army, right or something
like that Elron earlier I think, yeah, Navy, Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
They see people and he totally made up his war experience,
absolutely made.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It up wonderful. Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna make
up everything else in your life.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You guys will make that up to I guess, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
But like just claim storyteller.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And justifying that behavior somehow I mean that's yeah, I
mean that's weird. I was listening to a are watching
a video this morning on Instagram and I'm sure, I'm
sure he's also on TikTok and whatever and YouTube. This
(32:21):
guy named Dan McClellan, who is a like Bible religion scholar,
talking about people who think that the Bible believe that
the Bible is infallible and was like divinely inspired and
he's perfect in every way or whatever and doesn't have
(32:43):
any contradictions, and clearly there are contradictions. He doesn't take
much to see that there are contradictions in the Bible.
But he was saying, how do you you know, people
ask him, how do you talk to people who think
that there are no contradictions because pointing out contradictions doesn't help. Sure,
they you know, if there's just the slimmest like light
(33:07):
through the door of a possibility of something being true,
then it is true.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, confirmation bias is human trade everywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, And he was saying, kind of the only way
to get around that is because because it challenges their
sense of self as they identify in an organization, in
a religion, in any kind of group, whatever, and he
said that they're kind of the only way is to
get them to examine their own belief system and how
(33:36):
they relate to that and how their their self esteem
and their sense of self and everything is tied up
in that. And when you look at the people, because
there are a lot of people in this who were interviewed,
who were who have gotten out, and all of them,
that's kind of the process they went through. They looked
at their looked at themselves versus what they were being
(33:58):
told they had to do or made to do or
or you know. And it wasn't the money really that
triggered them exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
No one really mentioned that.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
It was really kind of everything else about it. And
for me, and money wouldn't be the number one thing
because I don't really want to give anybody my money.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
But yeah, I agree, that's like the path to realize it,
But I don't think you can ever make anyone else
do it.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, I mean that's all on everything, you know, like
for me to get sub us to like a raspberry
jelly when he's never tried to like me just telling
him to try raspberry jelly, or even finicking around it
it's just probably not going to happen, you know, And
that's that's just the well.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Furthermore, if he was addicted to raspberry jelly, getting him
to stop being addicted possibly jelly would be basically impossible.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah, or if you believed it was healthy or whatever.
And obviously that's like the most basic term. But like
politics is a big one, you know people. Religion is
another big one. Like just coming in and like telling
them the wrong or pointing reasons why you think they're wrong.
It's just never gonna work.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
The interesting thing to me about scientology is that it
doesn't really have a basis in much of any other
religion as far as I can tell.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, the the little like electrode they use, you know
to confess like kind.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Of has a little bit of a cross on it
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
But no, their logo is definitely a cross. Yeah, but no,
I just meant that that kind of felt like a
like a Catholic confession. Were you raise Catholic at all?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Uh a little yeah, just a little bit, and then
Christian and then kind of just stepped away.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah yeah, yeah, because like yeah, like confession kind of
feels like that, you know, just like digging in obviously
a little bit different, but but similar. You're in a
room with somewhat of a professional. The Cross, their logo
is kind of weird. Yeah, it's like kind of pretty.
It's like a cross with like a sun bar behind it.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
It looks a little looks a little Mormon.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, which is obviously like christian Ish based. Yeah,
I don't know the a lot of ties either, because yeah,
you don't figure it out until you're level eight and
you're talking to an alien or whatever. You know, Like
so much is just hidden. Yeah, like self like again,
like at its core, like obviously their methods are insane,
but like at its core, like self improvement, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
To argue with self improvement if it's true self improved.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
And that's what all these guys said, why they got
into it, really, how they were sold.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's more than method and not the.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Method was literal whash witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, it's things that don't make any sense, but like.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
How do you not and you know, I understand that
everyone is in different times and sees things, but how
do you not just realize like all right, l Ron
Harbard wrote alien movies, and I'm gonna follow this guy
and salute them, like what you know, Like that's just
like step one for me.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, you know, it was interesting too. I didn't realize
that there was a period of time, that fairly long
period of time that Tom Cruise was kind of not
involved with with scientology at all, and then they roped
him back in by splitting him up with with Nicole
Kittman and.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I mean isolation and yeah, yeah even John it
sounds like Travolta is still in.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It, still in it.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, so they try to like blackmail him. Yeah, oh,
they it's because they backed them up against like accusations
that he was gay.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, but I mean those kind of rumors, although not
maybe as substantiated. But I followed Tom Cruise around for
a long time too.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, that's a lot of these guys. I mean that's
some of the stuff. It's conspiratorial for sure. But like
I watched like a mini documentary online on Michael jacks
Michael Jackson's accusations. Not the big one. I've seen all
those documentaries too, but the many ones. Uh, you know,
you talk about like power of the game or the
power of big business, and like a lot of those
accusations came about when he started purchasing everyone else's songs. Oh,
(37:36):
so he made his own He made his own company
at seven or someone, I never forgot what the name is.
But he started purchasing the Beatles, he started purchasing rolling Stones.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
So that was not a popular move.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
And so if he's you know, if you're running around
with Sony and Universal and who's got all the power
of the media, maybe they start throwing because he had
no pedophile, no weird sexual assault stuff before that, and
then very similar timeline, he starts doing that and they
start throwing all these allegations out in the world.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah. I don't think that he would have had as
many allegations against him if he wasn't just a freak anyway.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I mean he had traumatic past. I mean, you
get raped when you're ten, you know, you probably not
end up great and be literally like the biggest celebrity
in the world since age what nine? Yeah, you know,
it can't. I mean, look at poor Bieber what he's
going through now. You know, probably a very similar past
with Puffy and who knows.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
What's going on.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Probably, Yeah, I heard Puffy's uh uh was it his lawyer?
I think it was. No, Yeah, I think it was
his lawyer stepped down because he said he saw too
much crazy shit. And I heard that same lawyer like
defended Osama bin Laden and shit, and this guy says,
I saw too much shit. I don't want to do
this no more.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, that's all alleged, but that's what I heard. That's crazy,
that's crazy. I know when Puffy, Yeah, there's insane videos
of him and Bieber obviously, I know poor b Yeah.
Talk about colts like that though too, right, Like whether
it be like industry in a way, like behind closed
doors secrets, you're not allowed to have normalized friends, are
(39:10):
only allowed to hang out with whoever your fucking management
team is or your label, like many ones probably happen
all over and who knows. Yeah, obviously the strict definition
had to do with like belief system or something, but
you know, a lot of those things can happen in isolation.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Britney spears like, why is there such a common theme
of all these celebrities just fucking losing it? You know,
like they've probably been constricted for so long seeing so
much weird shit.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah there, and some of them are are I believe
are creative because there's their circumstances were weird. Yeah, growing
up like it is Medians. It's definitely right for sure,
pretty common.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, there's there's a yeah you want to bend but
don't break. Yeah, right, and that's all creatives, right, Like,
you know, Kanye is obviously in the news for a
lot of reasons for many ways. But like I don't
think you get the masterful art with the totally sane average.
You know, an NBC is not creating magic, you know,
and so it's just how much of that the world
season not?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
You know, I'm talking about the you know, like the
self revelation, like that you that you're doing a thing
that you probably don't want to be doing and you
need to get out of. Not as dramatic as that,
but like I guess that I grew up in a church,
and like there were there were certain beliefs. I don't know.
It wasn't like like some some significant number of the
(40:27):
people were thought that dancing was bad. It wasn't everyone.
Some people did. My parents never bought into that. They
all thought that drinking was bad, but you know, you
would find out that somebody did it. They all thought
that smoking was a huge vice, some people did it. Whatever.
Swearing was a big one.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, really big.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Like religions, yeah it was, but it was it was
you know some of them, some of those things were
more heavy handed or whatever. And you were kind of
taught that there's only kind of one way. There's one way.
And then when I took comparative religions in college, just like,
oh fuck, there's not necessarily necessarily thinking that anything was
(41:07):
better constructed or whatever, but more that, oh, there are
all these belief systems that are valid for the people
who believe them, sure, and.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well, and there's some ties between like the most popular
or probably the most popular for a reason, because there's
like these random ties in there. Yet, like you said,
like it's like red flag number one, going back to
even the last podcast about like SBD and who's saying
what or not, Like red flag cult number one is
to call everyone else a cult. Yeah, if everyone else
(41:37):
is a cult, but we're not, Like well it's not us,
yes everybody. Yeah, but don't go with them. They're gonna
get you. Don't go with them, they're gonna be like
that's literally isolating in itself, right, And so like same idea,
you go study a bunch of religions. I was really lucky.
At our school we studied religions in the form of
history as well, from Hinduism all the way up, and
so yeah, you just realize some of the ties are
(42:00):
are within them, and you're like, well, that's probably what
I should follow, you know, like the Golden rule, like
treat others how you want to be treated. If we
can all agree upon that, that's great. Like why are
we arguing about cursing or caffeine, you know, affecting the mind,
and like, yeah, if you want to dive deep and
do that for yourself, that's fine, But those those aren't
common threads, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
And so yeah, I don't know, just a lot of
a lot of fetishized self denial shit is out there.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
For sure, it is. It is in multiple religions and
a lot of stuff. But then also you wonder, you're like,
does like there's no like modern time version of that,
you know, there's probably got to be a modern time
version of what's going on. And I just don't think
caffeine's not going to allow me through the gates of heaven,
you know.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Saint Peter says, you're too heavily caffinated.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, you know, but there's a lot of religions I
believe that. Yeah, you know, not a lot, but a
good handful. Yeah, a good handful for sure.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Some popular ones for sure. Got anything else to throw
in here? No, I think that's about it.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
You're joining it, gotcha. I haven't got me going see
like their recruitment tape. I know, we have an office
right here dry Blight every day. Yeah, I do kind
of want to go in, but it might get too weird.
But I would like to see or like know what
the recruitment is, what it looks like. Yeah, like, how
do you even join this thing? No way, you're just
like that interested you love Tom Cruise and you just
(43:24):
walk in that office just like, yo, give me a pamphlet.
You know. I don't know, because like other religions, it's
normally like and again I'm biased in a good way.
I think to Catholicism, where it's just like, oh, like
my homie goes you know, you lead by example, like,
oh like Sebos is a good guy. Oh he goes
to church every something. I'll go with them one time,
you know, you just go, you know, like and again,
(43:45):
religion is a touchy subject for a lot of people
I know, But there are other places that are actively
recruiting you to come there. And again, that's a red five,
not me on Saturday morning. Yeah, that's not my cup
of tea to do anything. Same with fitness. You know,
I want people in my life to be healthy and fit,
or my friends or the world. So what do I do?
I stay fit and I lead by example. I think
that's always the best recruitment. Going again to the psychology
(44:06):
of changing someone's thought pattern, it's nearly impossible. But if
you if you do good, believe good, and lead by example,
chances are you'll you'll track you know, more flies with
honey than whatever the fuck that's saying is.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, all right, let's rate this bitch. You know, what
are those electroges call?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
We're reading on that. Yeah, see, I like that cross.
The cross is kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Cross. It is kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I don't know where they make a great tattoo.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
How do you come with? Yeah, how do you come
with like a cross which is directly, at least in
the last two thousand years, directly tied to Jesus Christ.
And now you're talking a zene on the alien Queen
you know, like there's just nothing there. There's like no, you.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Know, there's no connections.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, and that must be part of the recruiting psychology
or something too, to make them feel more religious.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I guess, yeah, because it is. I didn't hear a
word about not about anything that's that is calm into
a common belief to a mainstream religion.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
They mentioned one thing about the creation, right, you reached
level five, six or seven or something, then they talk
about the creation, their version of the creation.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Story seven or eight, or get the briefcase that you're
thrown into the volcano.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, yeah, the volcano.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, the volcano, which isn't like that crazy if you've
like studied mythology, because a lot of mythologies have stuff
like that, you know, like you know, like Poseidon's daughter
was made in a clamshell, you know, like but those were.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
All things that were created at a time when we
did not really have much understanding of earth science. Yeah,
we're in a different time.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, but and even still, like you know, it could
be an analogy.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Right, yeah you read parable or whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, but yeah, the one interview, ladies like, well, volcanoes
aren't that old.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, they kind of are.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I didn't know what she said. Wasn't that our main argument?
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, it was like, oh, this volcano didn't exist this
or that that's.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
That particular volcano. Yeah, there's a lot I mean that,
but the Bible has a lot of that stuff too.
It's like, you know, towns, towns and cities that did
not exist, they're purely parable. Okay, So I'm trying to
decide between Theatan's and e meters. I'd say e meters meters.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Are like the layer of this site that aren't gonna
most common. Yeah, not gonna like ruin you you know,
an e meter in theory is wonderful. So it does
feel like again, the one with Leah feels a little
bit more like a documentary where I told Seboster's like
little segues with like maybe not animations. I don't remember everything,
but it just feels like more put together. This feels
(46:32):
like kind of a history doc. Yeah, not in a
bad way, because you can get all the info you need,
you know, and it's displayed well, and the interviews are decent.
Not a lot of emotion necessarily.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
It's a little bit more clinical.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah, yeah, it feels like history, which again is good
if you're trying to learn about scientology. So, you know,
i'd give it like a little I'll give it like
a three to one, a three to two. You know,
not like the most fun watch of your life. But
if you're interested in like cults and scientology. That's the
thing too, is it didn't drive home like the emotion,
like the damage of it where Leah's did does. Yeah,
and I told some about She's an actress obviously, so
(47:05):
she interviews a little bit better. But you just feel
the cult more with that movie.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yeah, towards the end of this one, there are a
couple of interviews that were that were emotional. Yeah, a
little bit more, but but largely devoid of of super
emotional stuff other than just people kind of laughing at
themselves because they were so far in it.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, you know, yeah, they're just telling stories and that's
fine and danny, but yeah, if you want to learn
a good amount about some scientology and cults, this is
a really good start. Yeah, three to one.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Bet, I'll give it a three five. Yeah, I'm gonna agree.
I'm somewhere probably three seven five because it's well constructed.
It's just it's a little more clinical than than. I
think it really absolutely had to be that. I think
that they're trying to project a reasonable amount of objectivity
on it. And yeah, it being HBO.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, which isn't like that. Yeah, they don't make it
like because yeah, you don't want it to go too
far the other way, even though this, you know, is
known as like the craziest religion of all time. But yeah,
you don't want it to be like totally biased. Yeah
it felt like as neutral as you can get. Yeah,
pretty much, which again I don't hate. Yeah, that's it
for us, ladies and gentlemen. New episodes every Wednesday, come
(48:14):
along our cult journey. I think we're discovering what's the
movie called. We're doing skateboards fall of.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
What's the I.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Forgot the company name brand, but this is a YouTube
doc Rise and fall of some skateboard company. Yeah, so
check that out. We'll cover that next week. And I'm
some mi like where you guys want to find.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Me Sebastian Underscore brand Bilo on I.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
G I am at the meet on all the social media.
This show its facts precise the word in fifty percent facts.
This is preaher Prime podcast association with art Media on
the Obscure Celebrity Network. I want to talk to you
next time
Speaker 2 (49:05):
To PA
All right, we're in Okay. So we just did a
thing we don't usually do, and that's we started a
conversation that I thought we didn't have a necessarily a
whole lot to say about it, and we did have
a lot to say about it, and so that is
its own episode and now we're plowing into Going Clear.
We had a conversation in the during the last review
that we did with our friend Dean sodoris about a
(00:35):
skateboard company that basically collapsed because its owner because of
its owners association with the Church of Scientology, and so
we said, geez, we don't I don't know that much
about about the inner workings of of of Scientology. And
(00:57):
the sort of like true to Scientology documentary is Going Clear. Yeah,
about ten years.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Ago or so, we're on a run of Colts, Ladies
and jentlemen join us. Colts have always kind of interested me.
This first thing I'll say is, this isn't the movie
I thought it was. Okay, so I've seen this one
and then I rewatched it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Which one? Did you?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I told you it was like The King of Queen's Lady.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, Leah Remini.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think there's like a whole one almost based on her.
It's yeah, and I thought it was this one, but
she wasn't even mentioned, right, No, she.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Wasn't mentioned at all. It was Paul Haggis and it
was that actor guy.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Obviously John Travolta and were mentioned. Oh, Jean John was
kind of interviewed, but I don't think he was interviewed
for this, right. That was pieces.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It was all pieces, because a new.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
One would have been so good, a new John Travolta
interview on this, And I told sub us that all
the air is that this one's good, and it is.
It's kind of like a good historic give you an
idea of what the fuck's going on in this place movie?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It almost feels like a history doc in a good way.
Where the one with her, The King of Queen's Lady Leah,
felt a little bit more emotional. And maybe it's probably
newer because it felt like it was just shot a
little bit better. And I think it's mostly again, I've
seen all these when they came out, which is, yeah,
probably eight years ago, so I don't fully remember, but
(02:18):
it does feel more on her with some other folks.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So yeah, I was actually a series that ran from
twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen. Lea Remedy, Scientology and the
Aftermath was sort of a follow up to this, although
it was not an HBO.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I definitely didn't watch four years worth, but I was.
I'm sure you didn't either. It was a good amount
and it was pretty entertaining.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
A thing that I will say is I have not
watched this before, but I had seen segments of it before,
and I think it was when Lea Remedy's show was
on that like one of the national news things did
a I don't know it was like Nightline or something
like that did a long segment on Scientology. So I
(03:02):
had seen a bunch of this stuff before. The history
part is not the whole not the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
The history part is funny because it's like, uh, like
everyone even now, like Sebas or whatever, knows like scientology
know like, oh, some weirdos or something, but you don't
know what's going on. And then they really did just
prop Propagandai's celebrities to make it cool and like known, yeah,
because like it. I just can't imagine it was that popular,
even though I think they had already bought the Hollywood
(03:27):
place in the nineties but yeah, I think so. So
they must have been obviously racking in the dough somewhere, yeah,
because I was thinking, like, I just feel like it
couldn't and you can obviously speak on a better meme
because I was born in eighty eight, but I just
feel like it wasn't publicly a thing as much until
like Tom Cruise.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, Tom Cruise, and and well probably Travolta and yeah,
and then Cruise, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Because like and then he was already dead by then,
you know, Elron, Oh, yeah, you know, and so like yeah,
so I guess for those that don't know scientology is
based is a I guess religion based on l Ron Hubbard,
who was a creative writer, which I didn't know. He
I think still, at least in twenty fifteen, owned like
(04:10):
the most books ever written. Is that what they said, Yeah, which.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Is insane, over a thousand books.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, they said he's a typing fiend.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
The one that most people would would know was Battlefield Earth,
which the first part of it was made into a
terrible movie with John Travolta. Oh, I didn't know, really
really makes a really bad makes sense one of the
literally one of the worst movies of all time.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, Like with her the documentary Leia, they go a
little bit more into what he wrote this one that's
kind of Glazer, but like he basically wrote like alien movies,
you know, like he's a sci fi alien guy, and
that was turned into a religion. Yeah, that was his
main thing.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah. And then so yeah, he basically promotes this thing.
I actually I told someone this too. I feel like, like,
obviously el Ron's off his rock or a good amount,
but I actually feel like maybe he wasn't that malicious
for a cult leader, just based on the fact that
he kind of like bought into his own shit. You know,
(05:10):
so he was already just screwy in the head rather
than like I'm gonna make everyone sip kool aid and die. Yeah.
You know, like I'm not saying he's a good person,
but in the cult leader spectrum, I think he's more
on the good side than they drink kool aid and
I'm gonna kill you all, just based again on the
fact that like he truly started to believe like they said,
he spent hours of it by himself on that machine.
(05:33):
You know, like he's just poor guy's insane.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
He's not like auditing on the E forgot the name already,
but they basically had this electric yeah meter where you're
like just digging into your subconscious truths and memories and
filtering and it's like it's galvanic skin response. So it's
very similar to to a light detector, but it's only
one part of the light detector equation. It's like one
(05:58):
a third of it, right, and light folks, yeah don't
prove shit.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, they're very bad.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
They do not prove shit.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And so like yeah, basically they they the one of
the core proponents or components of this religion is this
machine that you do alone I think what you figure
it out, but eventually first you do it with someone
like a leader, and you're digging into your subconscious and
they compared it kind of to like a Freudian styles
like psych session, where you're you're kind of like confessing
(06:28):
and like confronting this stuff, which again like doesn't sound
like that terrible. Like obviously there's this money factor on
the back end and Elron going through taxes and you know,
figuring all that out. But on the on the core,
he's not like and I know some people got abused later,
but that sounds like it was like the next guy, right,
Like it sounds like Elron's just off his rocker and
(06:50):
then like kind of wanted to help people. Like I'm
not saying he's a good guy again, Like, but on
the spectrum of bad people, I think there's a lot
worse people than Elron where second in power definitely was
on a power trip and and use that to probably
lock people in closets and fucking slave labor and who
knows what.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
See. To me, that is a really good example of
of cult behavior where you start to see like lieutenants
rise and they yet even higher on their own supply,
and cruelty becomes the like sort of the main message. Yeah.
(07:28):
The Stanford study, Yeah, which there's I mean that the
results of that are very up and up and sure
because it's not like a study study, but it's a
great example. But people in these circumstances, particularly you know,
certain personality traits and probably walking into it with low
self esteem and whatever, and they actually start to just
(07:52):
get off on punishing people. It turns into a BDSM
almost situation.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know. The Stanford study.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Is it where they have people like lower and power
and people.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Basically they set up like a prison in the school. Yeah,
all with students, and you just like randomly became one
of the other. And yeah, it's not like a great
documented study in terms of data and control group, et cetera,
et cetera, but it's just an easy thing to point
to when you're looking at like certain personalities probably aren't
made for power.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, and we're definitely seeing that here. A thing
that was not mentioned in this at all, which I
was kind of surprised by, is that Miskevitch, the guy
who runs Scientology. Now he's still around, right, Yeah, he's
still around, but I don't think he's been seen in
a bit. But his wife really hasn't been seen in years.
(08:43):
It's like she disappeared, just entirely disappeared. And the question
is always like where is she and what happened to her?
Is she still alive?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Like what what's the story? There's no good explanation.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Is there any new celebt berties that have joined this thing?
See that's a good question, right because because them like
disappearing or like Scientology has talked about less now, but
also Hollywood has changed, right, Like the modern day celebrity
are the same celebrities. I think, like name a new
one that came up, Like you can name a handful,
but like like Will Smith, Denzel, Tom Cruise, like there's
(09:19):
still the celebrities and two new generations. You know, you're
looking to the internet the logan Paul's the whatever, the athletes,
but like celebrityhood in general has kind of changed. So
I'd wondered if anyone actually like crept in there.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Elizabeth Moss, I know the name, ironically, Handmaid's Tale.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
That's yeah, not like crazy modern.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Look Laura Prepon, who was on that seventies show. She
was the ginger chick. She left the church.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
There's a lot of issue on seventy shows in there.
Oh yeah, someone else's get arrested or something.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Danny Masterson. Yeah, and it was several years ago and
he got convicted rape. But then yeah, and the church
like paid for his defense and it didn't make any difference.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
In regular church or scientology scientology oh one too. Yes,
they just grabbed all of that seventies show, not all
of them. Who knows what Ashton's knowing?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, yeah, uh, he seems to be cool.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know, it sounds like it. I don't know.
Because because then there's something weird with Mela. He married Mila, right, yeah,
but there's like a weird age gap.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
She's younger for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think she was like sixteen on the show.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh yeah, she was. She was very young. She was
she was playing her age.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Where he was like twenty seven playing eighteen. Yeah, there
was some weirdness.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Michael Penya is on this list of current members. Yes,
well you would. You would probably know him from the
the An movies.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I was gonna say,
what's the end to watch.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And to watch one of my favorite movies again the time?
So good.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, he's really good. But even him, like he's not
like a new celeb. He's a new movies obviously, but
like he's an old celeb, you know, like scientology is
like whatever cool factor they had, like Hollywood. They kind
of went down with Hollywood. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, So Kirsty Alley dead, but she was a scientologist.
Ann Archer who was with Ellen DeGeneres for a while.
Jenna Elfman was Sanny Elfman. Jenna Elfman related to Danny,
I don't think so. And Giovanni Ribisi you've seen him
(11:32):
in a million things.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That's sad Michael Penya, I do like Michael Penya.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I think Nancy Cartwright.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I think Bart Simpson's voice really Oh interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
See that's like old Hollywood though, came on like eighty five.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And I think there was like a rumor where it
was like, do you know Sabrina Carpenter? Yeah, I guess
I think that's her aunt.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
See that's why I'm waiting for and I'm waiting for
a new name like Sabrina carp I.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Think she was trying to probably convert her into being
a scientologist.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, yeah, and even like the conversion, right like colts
sometimes obviously cults are broad, but a lot of times
they really feed on the lost and loose, right, those
that have nothing going for him, right, Like the best
example is Ninja turtles, right, they grab all the what
are they call it? The what are the you don't
know the ninja's names? No, the bad Ninjas clan clans. No,
(12:22):
it really is like the clans.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
It's something like it's something clan, the Fist clan. Yeah,
see it's the Foot clan. The Foot fetish clan are
in the movies.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
They're high school like dropout kids, right, yeah, right, so
that's what I think of Colt, and I'm sure many
do represent that were this again, Like, I don't want
to defend Alron because you're all going to think I'm crazy.
But like l Ron sells it, he sells it well
and very calculated because he doesn't sell it as a religion,
and he hides all the weird ship toll. You're a
(12:57):
level eight and he've already already bought in, right, the
normal shit is just like yeah, man, let's like clear
your mind, let's make you feel better. Right. He sells
it as like therapy and life coaching. And then you
pay one hundred thousand, and then you level up and
learn a little something. Then you pay a one hundred thousand. Yeah,
you learn a little something. Then you pay you know,
three hundred thousand, and now you realize that you're talking
to you know, Zen on the fucking alien. Then then
(13:19):
you're like, oh fuck you know, but the first three
steps you're like, yeah, man, like I just need a
little help. Yeah, And this guy's smart. He's written more
books than anyone we know smart.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Right, shit, now it would be all AI or as
our education.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I'm gonna break his record with AI books. Fuck you,
l Ron.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Or as our education secretary likes to say a one.
For some reason, she's in Steak sauce. I don't know others. Uh,
this one is a bit of a surprise. Jerry Seinfeld
was apparently involved for a while. Jerry, but he's left,
but he still speaks highly of the group for some reason.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Because he never made level eight. He never worshiped an alien.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
And uh Brad Pitt, Yeah, I remember that one, but.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
He left as well. And then Katie Holmes I saw
on Broadway because of Tommy, because of tom Yeah, there's
a whole bit in the movie about how after they
drove what's her face away? Leah No, uh, Tom Cruise's
(14:26):
first wife. Oh yeah, ye Australian actress blonde, blonde actually
sort of strawberry.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I forgot kidnap.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Why am I having kid Yes? Yeh kidman? Yeah yeah,
uh him complaining, Uh no that was Ama Thurman.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Isn't kid min in a Batman? Yeah she is.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
No, she's just she's just a reporter or something, or
psychologist or something. She was doing with Val Kilmer. R
I p Val Kilmer. If you haven't seen the valcamer documentary, folks,
I would suggest that you watch it because he's interesting
and crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I was gonna say, maybe a little too heavy for me.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Super crazy. Yeah, I mean it's got his light moments
and his dark moments. But I thought I thought it
was really good, and I was I was kind of
a fan that knew he was sort of a little
maybe a little bit of a difficult person. But I
kind oft know people who he was friends with, he
was really close with. He was he got close again
with speaking of Tom Cruise, with Tom Cruise like they
(15:29):
always were.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I don't know about Tom Man.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I don't know about Tom either. That that the fake
smile and laugh, which is part of the deal. They
talk about that and the thing that that that fake smile,
fake laugh. Everything's fine. Look, well you're seeing like a
lot of like people, not just him. Yeah, you see
a lot of.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
People in general, but anyone, like I've had some well
we'll keep it private, but some encounters with folks that
are creeping into colts because they're still around everywhere, you know,
whether it be religious, whether it be like this business
y stuff, and there's always like this look on the
person's face. You know, it's just like a total lost,
kind of glazed eye. Yeah, it's just very you know,
(16:08):
and you see that in regular people too, when they're
really going through it and they're kind of out out
of their body. You know, they're really in distress. But
that's obviously when they're more susceptible to fall into something
like that. The thing with these things is like when
Tom Cruise is on stage speaking to the crowd, and like,
obviously he's going to be like the main speaker, right
because everyone knows, yeah, he's the fucking face. It felt
(16:28):
like we're at a Disney show. Didn't feel like the
set looks like some kind of Laddin ass. You know,
like you have you seen like at least I've never
even been to one. I've been to Disneyland, but they
have like big old shows like that. Have you seen that?
I've seen you know online? Yeah, yeah, the same with me.
I've never actually I've been to Disneyland many times, but
never been to like one of those actual shows. But yeah,
well you're Indiana Jones. I think it was a real
(16:50):
famous show for a while and they're literally like playing
the movie with the rocket shit all in front of you.
That's what it feels like. Like they have the weird
ass gold shit. The building looks giant, that auditorium like
a fit ten thousand people, and he's just up there, yeah,
cheese in his face off, talking nonsense.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But the weirdest fucking part of the whole thing, and
that's in more than one scene, is them like turning
and saluting the portrait of el Ron. That was fucking weird.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
No, And he's so just like odd looking to begin with,
you know, because you go like you'll go salute like
George Washington or something, Abraham Lincoln. You know, they look
kind of normal, they look on a stoic, they look
like they're a fucking soldier something. Elron just looks like
he looks like a comic book writer, and you're looking
at what the fuck.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Paul Thomas Anderson made a movie called The Master, which
is a slightly disguised version of Scientology. I have never
watched it.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I haven't either, but people, some people put that in
like their top ten all time.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I know, it's supposed to be a great movie.
And I'm kind of a Paul Thomas Anderson fan, at
least the first couple of movies. I'm a huge fan
of Magnolia and Billie Unites yeah, and his first movie
Heart eight is really good.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Did he get did he get like I felt? Not
like I don't know what the term is. But inspired
by Johnny then because Boogie Night's John Trufflet, isn't it.
Oh No, I'm gona thinking of the other movie.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Boogie Knights is. No that you're thinking of Saturday Night Fever.
Boogie Knights is. It's a big ensemble cast, but that's
it's where Johnny Uh oh Wohlburg broke through. But that
was an amazing cast. But that actually the the what's
(18:35):
his name? I'm gonna have to look it up because
I'm having having I'm having that day folks where I
cannot remember ship. Uh sorry, this is great radio. Uh.
(18:55):
John c Riley is in it, don cheatle How old
is it?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Uh? You know John c Riley, I've seen Steps.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, yeah, ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Damn.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's such a good movie. Riley, Joe Anna Gleason. But
the person I'm looking for is not showing up? Why
is he not showing up? Phillip Seymour Hoffman.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Phillips More Hoffman plays the Elron Hubbard character in the
Master and in the the person following him was played
by well Keene Phoenix. Trust it sucks that we lost
Philip seymour Hoffman. He was so good in everything, Like,
(19:46):
I don't know if he had a bad.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Performance, he could have shoved him in the new Harry Potter.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh yeah, have you have you seen some of the casting.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I don't mind. I'm pretty I'm pretty open until it
comes out. You know, I'll judge them after because everyone's
always gonna make a uh well.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Some of the same people that were involved in the
in producing the movies. So I mean hopefully the standards
stay high.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I think it's gonna be good. And HBO has a
track record they've made good series, you know. Yeah, I'm
all for it, and I think it starts, uh filming now,
but soon. I think it's supposed to be like twenty
twenty six, twenty twenty seven, you're supposed to see some
I'm stoked on it. I'm stoked on a little Harry
Potter action. Yeah. People are pissed. I guess they've only
announced like six of them. But it's a Homeboys good uh.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Dumbledore the oh Jalthgow is playing.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I think kill it.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, and like people complaining that he's not English, but
he is, he's half English, he just didn't grow up there. Yeah,
who cares, and he's got an acceptable we're gonna complain
about everything. Well yeah people. Yeah, that's and that really
comes down to like fandom versus cults because there and
there's a you know, there's a Venn diagram that has
a pretty significant crossover between like rabid fandom and cult behavior.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, yeah, Actually that's something I was going to look
up what the hell the definition of a cult?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, I was going to do that last time too,
because it does seem like obviously can't be like hard locked,
because then you could, I mean, it has to be. Yeah,
I don't know, because there's so many there's so many
things you can point to that feel culty. They may
not hit that, yeah, like yeah, like being allowed to
leave or being judged to leave, but like that's you know, yeah,
(21:27):
if you leave a friend group, you're gonna be judged. Like,
it doesn't mean your friend group's a cult.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
So the so the AI definition of a cult. A
cult is generally defined as a social group characterized by
an extreme focus on a leader or ideology, often involving
unusual beliefs, practices, and a high degree of control over
its members' lives. These groups frequently utilize manipulative psychological tactics,
(21:57):
isolate members from the outside world, and may engage socially
even behavior and I mean isolating. Talk about isolating man
the extreme Isola isolation. They've got the leaders of the
of the group that that was kind of the first
group within scientology, the the the the sea people.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so funny, that's just so weird.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And then they put them in these barracks that are
like falling apart and infested with vermin and insects, and
they don't let them eat much, and they don't let
them sleep, and they just keep like yeah and a
working and and submitting them to all kinds of crazy
(22:39):
psychological torture.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Even Leah talked about that, and I think she was
like higher up right, because the more money you pay are,
the more fame you have, they treated you slightly better.
And I think she even talked about again I haven't
seen this in like eight years, but I think she
talked about like having to cleaner room with the toothbrush
and shit, you know, like shit of that nature, and
having to live there for a certain amount of time
or whatever the fuck in my again experiences which are minor,
but there been in my life. Uh yeah. The isolation
(23:04):
factor is the one that like raises my red flag
cause like unrealistic belief, Like yeah, man, like but am
I worried about like flat earthers? You know, like yeah,
there's probably some danger there, but like I don't care,
you know, like is that unrealistic?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Probably, but they can go believe I live in a dome.
You know, it's not gonna fuck me up. But like
you start to isolate and say like, well you can
only you can. Oh, your mom doesn't believe in flat earth.
You can't talk to your mom. Now you're like, okay,
Like now we're causing issues. And some of the people
I've cross paths with buddies, friends, acquaintances that were heading
into a business ee relationship or a religiously group and
(23:39):
they're like, yeah, like you either bring your homies with
you or they're not your homies. And they're like, all right,
well that's weird, you.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Know, like a separating family.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah yeah, You're like, well, you know, I grew up
a pretty strict Catholic, you know, and not once in church,
not once with my parents, not once with every Catholic
person I've ever crossed paths with, did they ever tell
me not to be friends, talk to hang out, even Mary,
although in the book it says not to. You know
by their book that they don't want you to marry
(24:07):
non Catholics. But not once you know they're gonna reason
eyebrow at you.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
They'll still come to my wedding. You know, I go
marry a Jewish personal Muslim person, They're gonna come to
my wedding. They're not gonna cut you out of their life,
you know. And I know because a lot of people
are non religious and they point fingers at the Church.
And I'm not saying the Church is perfect by any means.
Every organization we look at Boy Scouts, we can look
a fucking everything. They're gonna have issues. But I bring
that up to show like the differentiation of my experience
(24:32):
of nineteen years being Catholic versus you know, three years
or six months in fucking scientology. They don't pull you
away from anybody, you know, they really don't, and they
don't really like shame you. And again, like coolicism is
like the oldest Christianity, arguably some of the most strict
besides some newer stuff that you know, some people think
it's a little weird. I think it's a little weird,
(24:53):
but you know, like it is very traditional, and they
just never like put that pressure on me.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Ever, And in sharp contrast that I grew up in
a in a Protestant church that wasn't technically evangelical, but
it had like shades of evangelical to it, and and
we basically we were told that h. J. Dubb was
(25:20):
was a cult. Jehovah's Witnesses, Oh yeah, Mormons a cult,
and hang onunder your hat Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah yeah. I just don't know if you can have
like forty of the fucking Europe be a cult.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, no, it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't really conform
to the two. But that's you know, I mean it's dogma.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
That's that's when you grew up in a small town, right,
which doubles down on that. Yeah, like if half your
city's in this one church, you know, now they got more.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That was definitely not the case, but it was a
small town.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah. I just feel like the smaller town you get,
the more control, like all these Obviously this happened in
La which is fucking crazy. But the other kind of
cult stuff, you know, the sip in the kool aids
and all that always happened in weird rural spots. The
Fat Loss one that we followed, it wasn't even Knoxville.
It was in like some small rich town outside of
in Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But Jonestown was actually people from the Bay Area.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was gonna say that. I mean,
this is Deadmo of Beverly Hills like it, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah,
I don't know how it all works, but yeah, like
religious stuff can obviously get weird, you know, but then
it's like, yeah, what's the majority of what you're talking about?
And a lot of people point to places like you know, uh,
you know, Latter day Saints and Jehovah's Witness for being
(26:36):
a little odd because they are a little different, you know,
But yeah, where's the line of cult? You know? I
would uh, I've been around a lot of Mormon people,
and I never felt that they couldn't be friends with me,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I grew up with Mormon's, I grew up with with
J Dubbs. Yeah, you know, I never a lot of
a lot a lot of Catholics because I because I
grew up in a very Latin, fairly Hispanic area. Yeah,
and and uh uh that was never an issue. It's
never an issue. It's cool. Yeah, But I have never
even like knowingly met someone who isn't it.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Like yeah, like they're gonna tell us that's yeah, that's
the number one they're vegan meme, the CrossFit or whatever,
that's the number one meme of cold. But to you, yeah,
they might not be doing regular people. Shit, maybe not.
What's weird to me is a lot of these colds,
at least the ones we've cover on the show, this
one and then the fat Loss one. Yeah, they were
around rich people. Yeah, which you think would be the opposite. Again,
(27:30):
what I talked about the foot clan. Normally they would
prey on the foot clans one hundred percent real. So
this is a good analysis that you would pray, Yeah,
you would pray on the week or the lost or
the you know, the people without families, Like that's the
foot clan joke. But in my head that works too.
And again I'm not a cold expert by any means.
(27:50):
I've just seen a couple of docs. But it makes
more sense to kind of use that power dynamic and
the manipulation on someone who's so lost with no parents
and no friends and hate school and doing drugs or
whatever versus yeah, rich, rich ass white people in Tennessee
or literal Hollywood. Yeah, you know, because like what, like
(28:11):
what are you searching? And I guess we're all human
and we're all searching for something internally, you know. And
that's where l Ron I guess was a genius.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
He's just like Stage one is therapy, Like it just
feels like a different form of therapy, and that's how
he kind of sold it.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
But even people who didn't feel like they had any
issues just like, oh, what where's your pain?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Like who hurt you?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You know? Like yeah, uh sea bass reactions.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I felt really bad for the lady that what was it?
I think she got to the eighth level. Yeah, and
they were telling her that a bunch of people were
going into her body or like spirits are going out
to body. Yeah, and she just felt like clinically like depressed. Yeah,
and the whole tire of thing. I was like, Oh,
I feel really bad.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, they're trying to scan you for whatever they call them.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
They had some weird Namethan's.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah fans and they're like, oh, you gotta keep on
scanning yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I just like, I just feel bad. That's how you
keep them trapped, right, Like if if you think people
want to force an issue on someone, I mean, fitness
is kind of like that too, Bro, you keep like
the internet does that, Like they'll just be forcing problems
on you, you know, like, oh, you don't sleep perfectly
for nine and a half hours without even rolling over once,
you need red light therapy. I'm a human, isn't okay
(29:17):
if I roll around a little bit? Like, yeah, I agree,
he sleeps very important.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
But that's the principle of a certain kind of sales,
you know.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah you have pain points.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, create a problem and then and then offer a solution.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, pain points. And there is fine lines there too,
you know, because I like sales and I like business,
but like, yeah, if you're just gonna fucking manipulate the
live and shit out of people, yeah like that. Poor
Later they all talked about it. He talked about himself,
right that, like el Ron's just fucking scanning his own
ass trying to find everything wrong forever.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Oh I think he had his friend, Yeah, when he
was close to build a machine to try to take
out something, and he just built like what a test
the coil.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Youah, like a yeah yeah youah, like a Ghostbusters fucking
get the demons out of you. So weird.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, I mean obviously he was mentally ill. Yeah, that's
why I give him, like straight up mentally ill. I
think that's like my you know, like my conscious pass
on the guy, Like he was just very sick, you know,
like I don't know if he was evil. I don't
know if he was the devil. I think he was
just maybe started kind of weird and then became insane. Yeah,
(30:19):
or and and somehow that vibed with people. And that's
just a weird thing about cults I don't understand. And
I think maybe my personality is just not that I
never buy fulling into fucking anything. Yeah, I mean I
just don't. I never have. I'm not. I I never
really had heroes exactly. And you know, they're people that
(30:42):
I admire, but that's different, and they're not necessarily celebrities.
But I wouldn't necessarily take the things that they said
like heart about some weird thing that feels off to
me that they believe.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I wonder if there's been any looks into MK Ultra
and l Ron because a lot of timings of these
uh colts seem to be similar times like what's the
kool Aid the famous ass kool Aid? Uh, the main colt?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Uh, what's his name kool Aid Jonestown?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, what's the guy's name?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Jim Jones?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, Jim Jones. Right, So there's been ties of MK
Ultra and Jim Jones and the CIA in like that
same era that the you know, there's documents are not
that showed that they were basically teaching Jim Jones how
to make colts right and that this was some experimental shiit. Like,
I wonder if there's any and it's similar timeline to
(31:39):
when l Ron was kicking around.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
He was also like in the army, right or something
like that Elron earlier I think, yeah, Navy, Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
They see people and he totally made up his war experience,
absolutely made.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It up wonderful. Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna make
up everything else in your life.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You guys will make that up to I guess, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
But like just claim storyteller.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And justifying that behavior somehow I mean that's yeah, I
mean that's weird. I was listening to a are watching
a video this morning on Instagram and I'm sure, I'm
sure he's also on TikTok and whatever and YouTube. This
(32:21):
guy named Dan McClellan, who is a like Bible religion scholar,
talking about people who think that the Bible believe that
the Bible is infallible and was like divinely inspired and
he's perfect in every way or whatever and doesn't have
(32:43):
any contradictions, and clearly there are contradictions. He doesn't take
much to see that there are contradictions in the Bible.
But he was saying, how do you you know, people
ask him, how do you talk to people who think
that there are no contradictions because pointing out contradictions doesn't help. Sure,
they you know, if there's just the slimmest like light
(33:07):
through the door of a possibility of something being true,
then it is true.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, confirmation bias is human trade everywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, And he was saying, kind of the only way
to get around that is because because it challenges their
sense of self as they identify in an organization, in
a religion, in any kind of group, whatever, and he
said that they're kind of the only way is to
get them to examine their own belief system and how
(33:36):
they relate to that and how their their self esteem
and their sense of self and everything is tied up
in that. And when you look at the people, because
there are a lot of people in this who were interviewed,
who were who have gotten out, and all of them,
that's kind of the process they went through. They looked
at their looked at themselves versus what they were being
(33:58):
told they had to do or made to do or
or you know. And it wasn't the money really that
triggered them exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
No one really mentioned that.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
It was really kind of everything else about it. And
for me, and money wouldn't be the number one thing
because I don't really want to give anybody my money.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
But yeah, I agree, that's like the path to realize it,
But I don't think you can ever make anyone else
do it.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, I mean that's all on everything, you know, like
for me to get sub us to like a raspberry
jelly when he's never tried to like me just telling
him to try raspberry jelly, or even finicking around it
it's just probably not going to happen, you know, And
that's that's just the well.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Furthermore, if he was addicted to raspberry jelly, getting him
to stop being addicted possibly jelly would be basically impossible.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah, or if you believed it was healthy or whatever.
And obviously that's like the most basic term. But like
politics is a big one, you know people. Religion is
another big one. Like just coming in and like telling
them the wrong or pointing reasons why you think they're wrong.
It's just never gonna work.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
The interesting thing to me about scientology is that it
doesn't really have a basis in much of any other
religion as far as I can tell.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, the the little like electrode they use, you know
to confess like kind.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Of has a little bit of a cross on it
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
But no, their logo is definitely a cross. Yeah, but no,
I just meant that that kind of felt like a
like a Catholic confession. Were you raise Catholic at all?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Uh a little yeah, just a little bit, and then
Christian and then kind of just stepped away.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah yeah, yeah, because like yeah, like confession kind of
feels like that, you know, just like digging in obviously
a little bit different, but but similar. You're in a
room with somewhat of a professional. The Cross, their logo
is kind of weird. Yeah, it's like kind of pretty.
It's like a cross with like a sun bar behind it.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
It looks a little looks a little Mormon.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, which is obviously like christian Ish based. Yeah,
I don't know the a lot of ties either, because yeah,
you don't figure it out until you're level eight and
you're talking to an alien or whatever. You know, Like
so much is just hidden. Yeah, like self like again,
like at its core, like obviously their methods are insane,
but like at its core, like self improvement, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
To argue with self improvement if it's true self improved.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
And that's what all these guys said, why they got
into it, really, how they were sold.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's more than method and not the.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Method was literal whash witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, it's things that don't make any sense, but like.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
How do you not and you know, I understand that
everyone is in different times and sees things, but how
do you not just realize like all right, l Ron
Harbard wrote alien movies, and I'm gonna follow this guy
and salute them, like what you know, Like that's just
like step one for me.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, you know, it was interesting too. I didn't realize
that there was a period of time, that fairly long
period of time that Tom Cruise was kind of not
involved with with scientology at all, and then they roped
him back in by splitting him up with with Nicole
Kittman and.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I mean isolation and yeah, yeah even John it
sounds like Travolta is still in.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It, still in it.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, so they try to like blackmail him. Yeah, oh,
they it's because they backed them up against like accusations
that he was gay.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, but I mean those kind of rumors, although not
maybe as substantiated. But I followed Tom Cruise around for
a long time too.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, that's a lot of these guys. I mean that's
some of the stuff. It's conspiratorial for sure. But like
I watched like a mini documentary online on Michael jacks
Michael Jackson's accusations. Not the big one. I've seen all
those documentaries too, but the many ones. Uh, you know,
you talk about like power of the game or the
power of big business, and like a lot of those
accusations came about when he started purchasing everyone else's songs. Oh,
(37:36):
so he made his own He made his own company
at seven or someone, I never forgot what the name is.
But he started purchasing the Beatles, he started purchasing rolling Stones.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
So that was not a popular move.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
And so if he's you know, if you're running around
with Sony and Universal and who's got all the power
of the media, maybe they start throwing because he had
no pedophile, no weird sexual assault stuff before that, and
then very similar timeline, he starts doing that and they
start throwing all these allegations out in the world.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah. I don't think that he would have had as
many allegations against him if he wasn't just a freak anyway.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I mean he had traumatic past. I mean, you
get raped when you're ten, you know, you probably not
end up great and be literally like the biggest celebrity
in the world since age what nine? Yeah, you know,
it can't. I mean, look at poor Bieber what he's
going through now. You know, probably a very similar past
with Puffy and who knows.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
What's going on.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Probably, Yeah, I heard Puffy's uh uh was it his lawyer?
I think it was. No, Yeah, I think it was
his lawyer stepped down because he said he saw too
much crazy shit. And I heard that same lawyer like
defended Osama bin Laden and shit, and this guy says,
I saw too much shit. I don't want to do
this no more.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, that's all alleged, but that's what I heard. That's crazy,
that's crazy. I know when Puffy, Yeah, there's insane videos
of him and Bieber obviously, I know poor b Yeah.
Talk about colts like that though too, right, Like whether
it be like industry in a way, like behind closed
doors secrets, you're not allowed to have normalized friends, are
(39:10):
only allowed to hang out with whoever your fucking management
team is or your label, like many ones probably happen
all over and who knows. Yeah, obviously the strict definition
had to do with like belief system or something, but
you know, a lot of those things can happen in isolation.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Britney spears like, why is there such a common theme
of all these celebrities just fucking losing it? You know,
like they've probably been constricted for so long seeing so
much weird shit.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah there, and some of them are are I believe
are creative because there's their circumstances were weird. Yeah, growing
up like it is Medians. It's definitely right for sure,
pretty common.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, there's there's a yeah you want to bend but
don't break. Yeah, right, and that's all creatives, right, Like,
you know, Kanye is obviously in the news for a
lot of reasons for many ways. But like I don't
think you get the masterful art with the totally sane average.
You know, an NBC is not creating magic, you know,
and so it's just how much of that the world
season not?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
You know, I'm talking about the you know, like the
self revelation, like that you that you're doing a thing
that you probably don't want to be doing and you
need to get out of. Not as dramatic as that,
but like I guess that I grew up in a church,
and like there were there were certain beliefs. I don't know.
It wasn't like like some some significant number of the
(40:27):
people were thought that dancing was bad. It wasn't everyone.
Some people did. My parents never bought into that. They
all thought that drinking was bad, but you know, you
would find out that somebody did it. They all thought
that smoking was a huge vice, some people did it. Whatever.
Swearing was a big one.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, really big.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Like religions, yeah it was, but it was it was
you know some of them, some of those things were
more heavy handed or whatever. And you were kind of
taught that there's only kind of one way. There's one way.
And then when I took comparative religions in college, just like,
oh fuck, there's not necessarily necessarily thinking that anything was
(41:07):
better constructed or whatever, but more that, oh, there are
all these belief systems that are valid for the people
who believe them, sure, and.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well, and there's some ties between like the most popular
or probably the most popular for a reason, because there's
like these random ties in there. Yet, like you said,
like it's like red flag number one, going back to
even the last podcast about like SBD and who's saying
what or not, Like red flag cult number one is
to call everyone else a cult. Yeah, if everyone else
(41:37):
is a cult, but we're not, Like well it's not us,
yes everybody. Yeah, but don't go with them. They're gonna
get you. Don't go with them, they're gonna be like
that's literally isolating in itself, right, And so like same idea,
you go study a bunch of religions. I was really lucky.
At our school we studied religions in the form of
history as well, from Hinduism all the way up, and
so yeah, you just realize some of the ties are
(42:00):
are within them, and you're like, well, that's probably what
I should follow, you know, like the Golden rule, like
treat others how you want to be treated. If we
can all agree upon that, that's great. Like why are
we arguing about cursing or caffeine, you know, affecting the mind,
and like, yeah, if you want to dive deep and
do that for yourself, that's fine, But those those aren't
common threads, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
And so yeah, I don't know, just a lot of
a lot of fetishized self denial shit is out there.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
For sure, it is. It is in multiple religions and
a lot of stuff. But then also you wonder, you're like,
does like there's no like modern time version of that,
you know, there's probably got to be a modern time
version of what's going on. And I just don't think
caffeine's not going to allow me through the gates of heaven,
you know.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Saint Peter says, you're too heavily caffinated.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, you know, but there's a lot of religions I
believe that. Yeah, you know, not a lot, but a
good handful. Yeah, a good handful for sure.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Some popular ones for sure. Got anything else to throw
in here? No, I think that's about it.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
You're joining it, gotcha. I haven't got me going see
like their recruitment tape. I know, we have an office
right here dry Blight every day. Yeah, I do kind
of want to go in, but it might get too weird.
But I would like to see or like know what
the recruitment is, what it looks like. Yeah, like, how
do you even join this thing? No way, you're just
like that interested you love Tom Cruise and you just
(43:24):
walk in that office just like, yo, give me a pamphlet.
You know. I don't know, because like other religions, it's
normally like and again I'm biased in a good way.
I think to Catholicism, where it's just like, oh, like
my homie goes you know, you lead by example, like,
oh like Sebos is a good guy. Oh he goes
to church every something. I'll go with them one time,
you know, you just go, you know, like and again,
(43:45):
religion is a touchy subject for a lot of people
I know, But there are other places that are actively
recruiting you to come there. And again, that's a red five,
not me on Saturday morning. Yeah, that's not my cup
of tea to do anything. Same with fitness. You know,
I want people in my life to be healthy and fit,
or my friends or the world. So what do I do?
I stay fit and I lead by example. I think
that's always the best recruitment. Going again to the psychology
(44:06):
of changing someone's thought pattern, it's nearly impossible. But if
you if you do good, believe good, and lead by example,
chances are you'll you'll track you know, more flies with
honey than whatever the fuck that's saying is.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, all right, let's rate this bitch. You know, what
are those electroges call?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
We're reading on that. Yeah, see, I like that cross.
The cross is kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Cross. It is kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I don't know where they make a great tattoo.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
How do you come with? Yeah, how do you come
with like a cross which is directly, at least in
the last two thousand years, directly tied to Jesus Christ.
And now you're talking a zene on the alien Queen
you know, like there's just nothing there. There's like no, you.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Know, there's no connections.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, and that must be part of the recruiting psychology
or something too, to make them feel more religious.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I guess, yeah, because it is. I didn't hear a
word about not about anything that's that is calm into
a common belief to a mainstream religion.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
They mentioned one thing about the creation, right, you reached
level five, six or seven or something, then they talk
about the creation, their version of the creation.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Story seven or eight, or get the briefcase that you're
thrown into the volcano.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, yeah, the volcano.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, the volcano, which isn't like that crazy if you've
like studied mythology, because a lot of mythologies have stuff
like that, you know, like you know, like Poseidon's daughter
was made in a clamshell, you know, like but those were.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
All things that were created at a time when we
did not really have much understanding of earth science. Yeah,
we're in a different time.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, but and even still, like you know, it could
be an analogy.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Right, yeah you read parable or whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, but yeah, the one interview, ladies like, well, volcanoes
aren't that old.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, they kind of are.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I didn't know what she said. Wasn't that our main argument?
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, it was like, oh, this volcano didn't exist this
or that that's.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
That particular volcano. Yeah, there's a lot I mean that,
but the Bible has a lot of that stuff too.
It's like, you know, towns, towns and cities that did
not exist, they're purely parable. Okay, So I'm trying to
decide between Theatan's and e meters. I'd say e meters meters.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Are like the layer of this site that aren't gonna
most common. Yeah, not gonna like ruin you you know,
an e meter in theory is wonderful. So it does
feel like again, the one with Leah feels a little
bit more like a documentary where I told Seboster's like
little segues with like maybe not animations. I don't remember everything,
but it just feels like more put together. This feels
(46:32):
like kind of a history doc. Yeah, not in a
bad way, because you can get all the info you need,
you know, and it's displayed well, and the interviews are decent.
Not a lot of emotion necessarily.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
It's a little bit more clinical.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah, yeah, it feels like history, which again is good
if you're trying to learn about scientology. So, you know,
i'd give it like a little I'll give it like
a three to one, a three to two. You know,
not like the most fun watch of your life. But
if you're interested in like cults and scientology. That's the
thing too, is it didn't drive home like the emotion,
like the damage of it where Leah's did does. Yeah,
and I told some about She's an actress obviously, so
(47:05):
she interviews a little bit better. But you just feel
the cult more with that movie.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yeah, towards the end of this one, there are a
couple of interviews that were that were emotional. Yeah, a
little bit more, but but largely devoid of of super
emotional stuff other than just people kind of laughing at
themselves because they were so far in it.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, you know, yeah, they're just telling stories and that's
fine and danny, but yeah, if you want to learn
a good amount about some scientology and cults, this is
a really good start. Yeah, three to one.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Bet, I'll give it a three five. Yeah, I'm gonna agree.
I'm somewhere probably three seven five because it's well constructed.
It's just it's a little more clinical than than. I
think it really absolutely had to be that. I think
that they're trying to project a reasonable amount of objectivity
on it. And yeah, it being HBO.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, which isn't like that. Yeah, they don't make it
like because yeah, you don't want it to go too
far the other way, even though this, you know, is
known as like the craziest religion of all time. But yeah,
you don't want it to be like totally biased. Yeah
it felt like as neutral as you can get. Yeah,
pretty much, which again I don't hate. Yeah, that's it
for us, ladies and gentlemen. New episodes every Wednesday, come
(48:14):
along our cult journey. I think we're discovering what's the
movie called. We're doing skateboards fall of.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
What's the I.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Forgot the company name brand, but this is a YouTube
doc Rise and fall of some skateboard company. Yeah, so
check that out. We'll cover that next week. And I'm
some mi like where you guys want to find.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Me Sebastian Underscore brand Bilo on I.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
G I am at the meet on all the social media.
This show its facts precise the word in fifty percent facts.
This is preaher Prime podcast association with art Media on
the Obscure Celebrity Network. I want to talk to you
next time
Speaker 2 (49:05):
To PA
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