John Gaglione: The Evolution of Powerlifting Culture

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
All righty, welcome, I'm back after a couple of weeks
of Uh, I just like needing to take a couple
of weeks to to not record when I don't you know,
with with Mike out, Uh, when I don't have guests
lined up, uh, and my schedule doesn't really really sync
up with that, then I just don't do it. And

(00:30):
and there's that's after a dozen years of powercasting. Did
I just say that that was a Fordian slip podcasting
starting with the power Cast, which this show has actually
been going on longer and has more episodes than that
show did by this point. But yeah, just it's freeing
to just not do it sometimes, you know, Not that

(00:51):
I don't enjoy it, but you know sometimes, So I'm
here with my guest, mister Gaggs himself. Uh, John CACALIONI,
the guy that we used to call the mafia accountant
for some reason.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
I did a very important deal, you know, with the
whole rebox shoe dealing. So it was in in Massachusetts.
Is you know, my my life's work right there.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
So how you doing, I'm doing. I'm doing really well.
It's great to It's always great to catch up.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
So going into twenty twenty six, it'll be uh or
my fifteenth year with a you know, gaggling on strength,
my you know, my coaching company, my my.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
My original gym in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
And it'll also be my twentieth year competing as a
competitive powerlifter.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Did my first.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I always joke that I started powerlating before it was
cool back in two thousand and six. So and got
married last year and originally from Long Island, New York,
and I just opened it'd be a two year anniversary
opened up as a gym. We were talking a little
bit off off air in Delaware. So it's a lot
has changed, a lot, has a lot of growth, but powerlifting,

(02:08):
lifting weight to the barbell has still always been part
of the equation.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Hey that's great, and you're you're training folks online in person.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, so it's I say that kind of like hybrid
is like kind of the not hybrid in terms of
running because I'm not not definitely not into.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
That, but hybrid me either.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I never kind of running in jiu jitsu or things
that I never partook it as a powerlifter. I did
have the bodybuilding stint in twenty twenty, and if you
guys are interested, we can kind of talk about that.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
That was just like a bucket list thing.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
But but yeah, so you know, uh, there was kind
of iterations and seasons of life where I tried to
get myself off the gym floor. Yeah, that's kind of
like what every good entrepreneur should do. But I'm a
coach at heart. Many people may not know, but you know,
I have a master's in education. I've always been a teacher.

(03:02):
I started teaching elementary wrestling, like when I was a teenager,
started coaching at eighteen.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
So in person coaching, I don't think I could ever
give up entirely.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
So I still have a bunch of clients that I
work with At our Delaware location. It's mostly kind of
older folks. There's a lot of retirees down here. We have,
you know, people in their fifties, sixties, and even some
in their seventies that are kind of training for strength,
Some are competing in powerlifting, some are just you know,
lifting for fitness, and then I kind of work with

(03:33):
I kind of program our all of our team members
at the New York Gym. They're a little bit more
kind of seasoned powerlifters, and you know, I still work
with you know, I still consult with guys like Larry Wheels.
That's kind of where you know, we first met when
he was on the scene breaking all his world records
and kind of taking the powerlifting s team by storm.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
But I would say most of my work is done online.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
But I'm never going to completely I always want to
have a hub and a home base or like where
my family can lift. My wife lifts. My wife and
our daughter she's actually gonna be doing their first usapl
meet together and competing and they're trying to kind of qualify.
So my wife will be trying to qualify for Master's Nationals,
and then our daughter she just did her first youth

(04:17):
Nationals back in July. So you know, everyone's kind of
involved in the liftings team. I think that's kind of
the nature of being around me. It's kind of part
for the course. But I try to, you know, make
it as part of our lives the best we can
and just maybe you know, take it a little have
a little bit more fun in the process. Maybe not
quite as serious as you know it once was, but
lifting is definitely still part of the equation.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I I just full transparency. Like I there have
been times, just even even owning this gym, that I
have not been in the gym all the time. In
the last like five or six months, I've I've I'm
here like six days a week, not just not working
but actually like working out too. And uh uh. And

(05:01):
it is the first time since the old days when
I was lifting with a team of people that it's
actually been fun for me. And you know, we have
now there's nobody lifting with me, but we have members
in all the time, and and we have a you know,
a good community, a good group of people, and it's
it's just sort of the first time that it's really
like felt good in a really long time. So I

(05:25):
get what you mean, like get the family of all.
Like my wife. I realized one day my wife had
like a more of a of a practice of fitness
than I did, like by any stretch of the imagination,
you know, and really she was running and doing yoga
and whatever, and like I was not, and I'm not
gonna be, but I did did finally like lock myself

(05:45):
back into for the first time since the powerlifting days,
like locked into too a program and talking to people
who are advising me on on what to do, and like,
you know, drop being some of my the weight that
I intentionally put on for powerlifting, and it it's been
you know, it's been good. It's been really good.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
I think that like that was so I kind of
alluded to it a little bit. So like you know,
in twenty twenty, I did a little bit of a
bodybuilding stem.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
So part of that was like I was on my
way down anyway, and I was and so.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
I did one of my bucket lists goals and this
is a this is equipped lifting, but I think it's
still pretty good.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
So, you know, wearing squat suits, knee reps.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
I wanted to you know, I wasn't going to be
a Larry Williams and break all time records. But I
always took my lifting very seriously and I'm like, you know,
maybe I could do something that no one's ever done before.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
So I said, I said on this.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
I ended up kind of losing weight and I got
very close to an eight hundred pounds squat in the
two forty two weight class. And for those that have
been following me for a while, I've squatted a thousand
pounds in training. I did nine hundred in a competition
as a super heavyweight, and I was like, okay, you know,
eight hundred, it's kind of a pretty substantial figure. Still,
I'm like, what if I could squad eight hundred pounds
and multiple weight classes. So I set this goal to

(07:03):
squad eight hundred pounds and six weight classes because to
my knowledge and to this day, I don't think anyone's
ever done it. So I was on my way down.
I cut all the way down from three forty to
one ninety eight. It took like five years. I weighed
in a one ninety seven squad at eight hundred. I
had my Chuck vogelpol flame beingie on when in my
canvas suit while doing it, so it was like kind
of a little bit of a throwback, a little you know,

(07:26):
ode to you know, Louis Simmons and uh. And then
from there I kind of was like, I think I
have some abs and I have some definition in my leg.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
So obviously there's a water cut involved and stuff.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
But I started to actually look like relatively lean, and
I was like, you know, I'm not going to go
down to one eighty one. But I said maybe I
could do a bodybuilding show, and of course, you know,
in twenty twenty, kind of the world shut down, but
I had a lot of time to focus on it,
so it ended up being a blessing in disguise. I
ended up doing the Mister America contest and it was
a lot of fun. I had a lot more fun

(07:54):
than I thought. But uh, you know, I kind of
quickly realized that I enjoyed eating food too much and
Mom's cooking and all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
So that was a very short lived yeah, you know,
but it was a cool bucket list thing.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
And then you know, I kind of bounced back and
forth between different weight classes and stuff. But I going
back to what you were saying, before being on a
program having some sort of performance goal, I tried to
like just exercise for like a while, and just that
didn't really just do it for me. So one thing
that I've been kind of doing more of single lift
meets has been fun. It's a little bit less stressful, honestly,

(08:29):
benching in the new shirts. It's still very comfortable because
I have a lot of shoulder issues, and I've been
kind of dabbling in a strict curl competition. It's kind
of like a little bit of an odd bawl thing.
But I just really enjoy competing. I don't know if like,
you know, putting you know, eight or nine hundred pounds
in my back as often as like the smartest thing
for me to do for longevity.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
But I love lifting heavy. I love lifting with a crew.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
We have a bunch of guys that I trained with
now I'm actually going to be benching with them later today.
And it's just fun to kind of like do something,
to be on a program and kind of lift with
your friends. And that's like the thing I really miss
about like having those equipped, you know, sessions with the
guys and you know, some of my trips to West
Side and you know, learning with all those guys and
you know, anyway, so that's kind of like what I've
been up to and just you know, just to kind

(09:12):
of like it's as much as for the physical body,
it's also like for your for your brain and your confidence.
And I felt like I was just exercising, I just
wasn't it just was I just felt like something was missing,
you know. So just trying to be a little bit
more reasonable about my goals and stuff. I'm actually started
dieting as well, like this week and trying to get
my weight back down, but you know, trying to stay healthy,

(09:33):
state motivated. And I think that like having some sort
of you know, performance goal like attached to your training,
I think it was also helpful. At least for me,
it's always been helpful to kind of keep on target,
you know. For those that maybe don't have like world
record aspirations, I think it's still like good to have
personal records that you're striving for, and even if they're
if they're made up, I think that could be really
helpful to kind of keep you on track.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, that makes sense. You just just your your goals
don't have to be anybody else's goals to understand, right,
I mean, you just whatever works for you. Excuse me.
Something you were said earlier about about your your big
weight loss all the way down till one ninety seven,
taking five years. And this is something that I noticed

(10:15):
a lot lately that really bugs me, is that people
have unrealistic expectations of how long it's going to take
to lose the significant amount of weight, even if it's
you know, even if it's twenty five pounds, even right,
they have an unrealistic expectation of how fast they can
get there and then what they can do when they do.

(10:37):
And you know, like I think that twelve week challenges
are good for motivating people, but that is it this
you know, it's a it's a losing game if if
you're if you're like sprinting to the finish and then
when you get there, it's it's a big party, and
then you don't, you know, care about maintaining weight loss

(10:59):
or it just it seems like it seems like that's
a part of that one of the parts of the
fitness industry that's broken is that you can get people
engaged for for a you know, a twelve week challenge
or whatever, but twelve weeks of engagement is not enough.
Like you have to realize that you're you're making a

(11:20):
like permanent lifestyle change.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
I think the permanent lifestyle change is a very hard
pill to swallow. And it's one of those things where
even when you're working with people, because I've been working
with a little bit more like kind of general fitness
stuff now and I think sometimes like what I've found
sometimes is one thing that I find the powerlifting meets
and stuff has been helpful is a kind of record,
It kind of.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
You do need to like kind.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Of weigh yourself in and check in on the scale
if you do want to make body composition changes and
all that stuff. But sometimes it's good to like not
like worry like solely on that, and if you have
other kind of side kind of quests and side goals
that you're kind of focused on, it gives you because
what's great about what's great and bad about power lifting
is that it's very like tangible to see your progress,
like immediately where you be able to add five more pounds,

(12:05):
were you able to add another rep? And I know
that's something where and at a certain point when you
get to a level like kind of we did it.
When you're in you know you're squatting six seven, eight
hundred pounds. The five pounds is not going to come
super fast either anymore. But initially, if you have someone
who's like I have a woman I'm working with. We
just did a charity bench press fundraiser out at the
local gym, and in the last four months she never

(12:27):
she's never touched any weights before. She came in strictly
for like body composition and fitness, but slowly over time
she got comfortable. She went we have like a kid's bar,
a fifteen kilo bar, so now she's using like a
like a twenty kilo bar, forty five pound bar. And
she was asking about this bench press fundraiser and we
have like a max contest and a bench her reps
and I'm like, why don't you just bench the bar

(12:49):
as many times as you can? And she jumped in
and she did it, and she was so proud of herself.
And it was one of those things where for guys
that have you know, been in bench shirts and did
all these massive wets may not seem like crazy, but
for her it was a huge win just to like,
so she was a little Now she's still gonna be
focusing on our weight loss and stuff, but it just
gave her something else to be proud for. Now she's
got a little bit more pep in her step and

(13:09):
she's a little bit more motivated to keep coming back
to the gym because these these weight changes can take
a lot of time and especially if you want to
kind of keep it off.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
So it's one of those things where.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
You know, depending on the person, like I might like
kind of save that conversation for a later date, like
once they have other habits in place, and usually being
the strength guy, I like to tend to focus on
like the lifting part first and then kind of get
to the because the lifestyle change, like the eating and stuff,
it's it's, it's, it's. It could really take a really
long time for like your average person, but you know,

(13:44):
I think that it is worth it once you kind
of like get get into it. And even with ourselves,
we're trying to you know, have healthier dinners and healthier options.
And I think the more you can be kind of
inclusive in your community and family, I think it definitely
helps if you know, and just kind of you know,
if your family is on board and your community is
on board, I think that makes a huge difference if
kind of everyone is kind of on a similar page,

(14:06):
you know, when it comes to lifting and you know,
just weight loss in general.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
So yeah, yeah, And and I think that like the
the the dominant philosophies around weight loss seem to stream
from more of the bodybuilding world, and that's not most people.
That's not where most people's goals lie or should lie,
and they get caught up in in needing to feeling

(14:31):
like they need to be super strict when that isn't
really the issue. The issue is is sort of is changing.
You're just basically changing the menu of things that you're
choosing from and the proportion of those things and not well,
I'm only going to eat clean and I'm going to
do this and do that. You know, it's it's the same.
It's the same kind of thing with with training with

(14:54):
with people who you know, coming at it from the
fitness side and and working more like body weight splits,
I mean body part splits. You know, that's that's a
bodybuilding thing that's not like a regular person trying to
get fit thing. Like I in the last like six

(15:15):
weeks or so, I switched from the first time since
the nineties, switched to a full body, three times a
week workout schedule, and it has been like a revelation.
It's like why did I do this before? And you know,
like you start looking back at your life and like, well,
if twenty years ago I had met people who were
more fitness oriented and less less concerned about max weights

(15:41):
like I would, this probably wouldn't be so much work
right now, you know?

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think that one thing that I've been
kind of trying to implement with myself too, is just
kind of going back to my I did wrestling in football.
Growing up, wrestling was more my main thing, and wrestling
is kind of was my introduction to the strain training
lifting in general, and I just I happen to really
kind of fall in love with trend the conditioning, and
that's kind of like how I kind of got my

(16:05):
started in this whole field. And one of the things that,
especially now that I'm like a little bit like you know,
less serious about competing, not really doing like full competitions anymore,
at the moment, I can like you know, do some
things like you know, whether it's drag a sled or
just get better at like do some calisonics and just
have some more general just general training. And that's something

(16:26):
where when I was working with a lot of wrestlers
in like the early two thousands, like that was kind
of my main kind of client sele and you know,
they didn't just squat bench and deadlift. You know, they
did rope climbs, they did pull ups, they did push
ups and lunges, and just being like a little bit
more well rounded versus just like you know, being like
absolutely strong. Can you like be like a little bit

(16:47):
more well round and even like you know, you could
do a little cardio, you know, you could do like
you know, it's like what a novel idea. Even just
I've been really trying to focus on getting my steps up,
just being outside a little bit more a while it's
still you know, reason reasonably uh you know, you know,
decent out. And I think that, like you said, and
your your your program will change. I think like when

(17:09):
people are like, oh, like what's your split or what
you know, it's all kind of circumstantial.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Where like you.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Said, a lot of my general fitness people they might
do more full body because it's like they're not gonna
I'm not gonna see them like five times a week
or four times a week. If I see them like
twice a week, well we're going to do like a
little bit of everything and just you know, it's still
gonna be strength focused, but you know we might just
kind of do you know, do something for upper bodies,
something for a lower body, and then some other stuff
maybe like okay, like some stuff might just be stuff

(17:34):
they enjoy. It doesn't have to be like so like
optimal is like all the rage and you got to
do the opt you know, but also like you know,
it's like you have to what are things that you
actually like doing that's going to get you back to
the gym?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
You know, So optimal for who is always the question? Yeah,
I ask, because like optimal for somebody else, Optimal for
a bodybuilder or a or a you know, a crossfitter
or an Olympic weightlifter or a powerlifter, those are all
different things. Are people who haven't like literally other sports
like running, like we we have you know, a continue

(18:10):
of people here who actually run and they're not necessarily
competing in powerlifting, but they're training in a powerlifting style,
but they enjoy running. They run with run clubs in
the in the area and stuff like that. And that's
just that what's optimal for them is not going to
be what's optimal for are. You know, we have a

(18:31):
larger contingent of tested UH Federation competitors here, we have.
I don't think we currently have any non tested competitors.
This is a totally different world than than what I
was dealing with.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
It's it's really interesting and like I said, we can
kind of dive into it a little bit. So two
things I want to touch on because I think the whole.
I'd love to kind of touch on the culture of
powerlifting because one of the things we were kind of
talking about off air is just training versus I think
that's a good type of conversation. But U but even
before that, like I think that one thing that I

(19:06):
think that's i'd like i'd like to kind of advocate
for for people that are like thirty five plus forty plus,
maybe you're a bit a businessman, maybe you have kids,
you just limit it on time. I love, I love
power lifting. There's a lot of elements I like about it.
But I think that like people feel like they need
to if they can't do like this full on, you know,

(19:29):
crazy program, then why bother. And one of the things
that I really like love about training for strict curl,
it's like you're not gonna like die from being under
like a thousand pounds, you know. That's that's that's that's
like the first thing. And like literally you could do
it like once a week and just get profession at it.
And like it's such like a low like cost, Like
you don't need like a squat suit, you don't need

(19:52):
a fancy like combo rack, you don't you need a
wall and like a barbelle and like some weights, and
you can kind of get started with it. So it's
one of those things where at first it's team kind
of corny, but we had a lot of athletes get
really proficient in it. My wife's been doing that as well.
She's one of the top females in the country for
for her weight class. And I was like, Okay, I'm
starting to get some athletes that are like getting more

(20:14):
proficient in this, so I should kind of like and
I thought it was gonna be kind of stupid, but
I kind of like, you know what, there's a lot
of elements from parallels that I like about. You know,
you get three attempts, you kind of you have this
performance goal, but like the cost of like squatting like
eight hundred or nine hundred and like what that does
to your nervous system and your back. And so I
feel like I can kind of do a strict croll
meat And I'm like, I guess it doesn't it doesn't

(20:36):
like have it doesn't interrupt my life so so much.
Like you feel like the computer is like crashing and
you need a few days. So if you ever if
you ever been in a squat suit and had a
substantial amount of weight on your back. It's just a
different type of fatigue that you kind of feel. And
I'm sure all these because these rowlifters are squatting eight
nine thousand pounds, you know, someone like a Heyzoos Salavaris,

(20:57):
so I'm sure they're kind of feeling the effects of
that too. So anyway, it's just wanted to kind of
I think that like sometimes like if you sometimes it's
that you could still kind of do something, but maybe
just you just do it differently, you know. So I
think that's just something I wanted to kind of highlight
and then yeah, if there anything you want to add
to that, And then I think the whole culture change

(21:17):
in powerlifting, whether it be good or bad, it's just
been really interesting to kind of see over the last
you know, you know, twenty years or so, like it's
been quite a shift and you know what powerlifting is.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
But yeah, I think the average age of competitors drop
significantly in the last ten years for sure, and it's
part probably seven, maybe a little bit longer than that.
But yeah, just like there's so many more young people involved,
there's so many more people period involved than there used
to be. I could definitely feel you on the geared

(21:48):
lifting and it doesn't even have to be you know,
it doesn't have to be eight erred pounds. It has
to be whatever your eight.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Hundred pounds is.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And like that, you gear is exhausting. People who really
poop poo died because oh, it's cheating or whatever. It's like, No,
it's just a different it's a different slice of the sport.
It's it's just different. Like hell, there are different versus
versions of pickleball out there for having. You know, it's
like you can't say they're all that there's only one

(22:16):
way to do to do a sport. Uh, there's usually
only one popular way to do a sport, and that
that that has changed for sure. But I can tell
you that that, you know, squatting six fifty, that was
my best squad ever and I never got close to
it again. I got the six hundred is the closest
I ever got again. Or you know, pulling over six

(22:38):
whenever in gear is exhausting, Like you're you're there's does
something different to your nervous system than lifting raw does.
And that is that's hard to communicate for people who
are never going to find out. They're never going to
find out because you can't just jump into equipment, you know, No, no.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
You definitely need like people.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
And so I think that's a good segue because I
think like that was like one thing that it was like.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Maybe like an.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Unintended consequence of the equipment was that like kind of
people were almost forced to train together under the same monoliths,
spotting each other, stuffing yourself into the squad suit, stuffing
yourself into the bench shirt. I mean, you know, if
you think about it, it's like it seems all kind
of silly, and if you ever, you know, like kind
of it's like, oh, you're like hanging from the bar

(23:26):
and takes you like thirty minutes just to get into
the thing get out of the thing. But but I
think what I really loved about that kind of era
was just a difference in camaraderie. And also like even
if you like everyone has like an online uh program
now where they have like an online coach, and in
my opinion, like I think it's more online programming than coaching.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
But that's another kind of deal.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, it's just like coaching is what happens where like
you're actually getting feedback you're getting cues, you're getting it,
you're getting like insight, and I think that like I
think the equipped lifters also, we're just very in tune
with like safety and being engaged, and they were very
like present. Yeah, you had to be just for from
the safety aspect, but people were always yelling at you

(24:13):
to like, you know, whether it's sitting back or pushing
your knees out or tucking your whatever, whatever it was,
it's just a very different and to me, like that
felt like more like you were on a team. And
that's something where going from like wrestling and playing football
to like more of a you know, getting into equipped
powerlifting and training and a crew, I felt like that

(24:35):
was a very like natural, like kind of segue to
kind of just still being feeling like I was like
still like an athlete in some regard, even like you
can kind of argue maybe we didn't look like athletes,
maybe you know a bunch of fat guys stuffed in
the squad suits, but you know, that to me is
just something that it's been really interesting over the years.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Having a pulse on.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Going to some of these more popular gyms, not to
kind of poo poo them, but one of the things
that's always been kind of disheartening to me is like
some of these gyms, they might it's they're beautiful, they
may have like ten combo racks, and during a busy
session you have like literally ten people with their headphones on.
They're on their phones, they're kind of doing their own thing.
They're not like working in with each other. They might

(25:16):
even go as far to wait until the racket until
you're completely done to kind of get started. So I
don't know if you've kind of seen that, like kind
of owning your own gym yourself, or kind of kind
of any thoughts on that, but that's something that I've
kind of always been trying to maybe push back against
in terms of like just like the lifting culture and
how people are training nowadays.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, you know, that's definitely a thing that I see
and I and I actually I think I said this
on the show a couple of months ago, that there
isn't anybody who trains alone in our gym who could
benefit from training with a group of people. And you know,
back in those days, everybody had eyes on what everyone
was doing, and they were they had you know, sometimes confusing,

(25:58):
conflicting comments, but people had things to say about you
know that that might have been insight on on technique
or on on weight selection, any of those things. You know. Uh,
And it doesn't happen as much here now. At the
same time, like people are, people are very kind to

(26:19):
each other here, and they do pay attention to each
other's lifts, even if there's you know, three people on
three different combo racks at the same time, you know,
and they're all squatting, and they could be just squatting
together and and but they don't. And there is a
lot of focus on you were talking about talking about
coaching versus just programming. There are some people who have

(26:41):
good coaches and and they and they're recording their lifts
and sending them to their to their to their to
their coach. I do wonder sometimes to what extent that helps,
because a lot of what I mean, a lot of
flaw in lifting after someone reaches kind of the intermediate

(27:02):
point is just that they go up on technique. They're
like they're like a pitcher who loses his arm slot
for a minute, you know, and and they can't find
the strike zone. It's not that there's anything inherently wrong
with what they're doing is just they're having a moment
where they're just off. They just miss a lift because
there they had a break in concentration or or they

(27:24):
just got out of position and couldn't get back into position.
Just and I don't know what you coach about that. Honestly,
it's just like, oh, don't do that anymore. It's like
it doesn't you know what what. I don't know what
the benefit is except that there's a I mean, we
go through we go through iPhone tripods like their water

(27:47):
around here there, there's like you're just constantly buying them.
I think we're currently down to three, but I think
that we've we've been up as high as like eight
or nine. And I mean everybody's doing it, so everybody
needs to do it, I guess. And it's you know,
not all of them are posting them on their Instagram
or whatever. It's a lot of just going to coaches.
But I don't know what that I don't know the

(28:09):
value of the feedback. I guess that's what I'm trying
to say.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, No, I think that's a really good point.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
I think there's definitely and I think part of that
is like, so I've been I don't know if you're
if you remember, well, I know you remember, I don't
know a lot of the listeners remember when a lot
of people were back on like teenage and stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
But yeah, so I kind of like I probably got on.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
There even maybe maybe before I was even like deserving
of getting on there. But it was just kind of
like that's kind of like what you did if you
wanted to kind of be like, you know, some of
these uh you know, the Eric Kresty's and a.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Lot of these prominent coaches.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
It was just kind of like monkey see, monkey deal,
like maybe I should like write for teenage and maybe
I should you know, kind of get on men's health.
So anyways, and back in those days, some of my
articles are to get a little bit more popular. I
also was trying to communicate some of the stuff I
learned from Louis Simmons and many others and try to
kind of put that in a more digestible way, learning
from guys like you know, Dan Green and many others

(29:03):
that you guys, you know, we all rubbed elbows with,
you know, back in the day and at that time,
because teenage was such like a big kind of you know,
meeting ground for a lot of minds and fitness and strength.
I started to get people like, oh, can you do
online coaching? And like I had no system. I'm like, okay,
I guess so I can kind of send you And
I started to do like very crude you know, video

(29:26):
editing and feedback and stuff like that. Now there's like
different applications and stuff. And at a certain point, I
think you're right, Like, at a certain point, this is
kind of like my over the years of kind of
coaching people for like I said, nearly two decades. At
this point, six to eighteen months, the new big games
are gone. Techniques probably pretty stable.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
You know.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
There's probably not like you might unless someone's switching from
similar to conventional that they're learning a completely brand new lift,
or they're getting going from sleeves to wraps or raw
to equipped. There's probably not too much like to really
tink with, you know, at that point. But I think
what's really important is, like I said, the human connection,
the interaction when things are not going, when when life

(30:10):
stress happens, just kind of like troubleshooting, Like okay, like
I had a bad workout, Like should should I go home?

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Should I scrap?

Speaker 3 (30:16):
And I think it starts to be less about the
technique and more about like, uh, I consider myself almost
like a strength consultant sometimes, where how are you just
navigating like life, especially if you're kind of dealing with
older people where you know, if you have a junior
lifter and like their life is like centered around training.
There there's no stress. They're eating a lot, they're sleeping

(30:37):
a lot. You know, they don't have anything they'll kind
of worry about. You know, they could do like you know,
SBD five times a week and be at the gym
for four hours, and they're as long as they're working hard,
they're probably going to get pretty good results. But then
for me, like a lot of times, it's it's it's
fun to kind of troubleshoot the people that can only
I can only make it in the gym twice a

(30:58):
week or I can only So it's definitely like a
lot different than training an all time record holder or
someone that's really seasoned. But I kind of have a
lot of fun having those conversations and stuff. So sometimes
it's a matter of just having a sounding board checking
in and also kind of explaining them. One of the
things that I like to do personally, it is just
kind of really understanding like what's the intention of like

(31:20):
the next week, what's the intent and then also kind
of like looking forward and if they do kind of
yolo or they go off plan or and then be
kind of okay, let's make an adjustment, because I do
think that the big downside to a lot of the
programming and like online feedback is that a lot of
times it's it's just a little slower than like doing
it in person. But with a lot of the tools

(31:41):
now you can be a little bit more organized, and
a lot of the tools, like even like with AI
and stuff, a lot of the stuff is going to
be kind of able to track your volume and your
prs and stuff like some systems are doing it automatically.
But the human interaction and kind of actually troubleshooting and
having conversations. I think that's where the human element and
the code which really becomes value. And then like for

(32:02):
me personally, I try to make a point even with
our online clients, if there's a meat that they could
fly to or if I can kind of be there
in person, I just there's all I'm calling him like
the next Larry Wheels, which maybe a little bit.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
There's a young kid and I'm mentoring now.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
He has three American record deadlifts and three weight classes.
He just went from a teenage lifter. He's going to
do his first meet in the juniors. But he's got
American records in the two forty two, two seventy fives,
and three awaights and he just pulled eight oh four recently.
And so I've I've made a point to fly out
to Florida to train him. I don't I don't know
if you remember. I know the name Jordan Wong.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
He used to roll.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, so Jordan's still He's part of RPS and the
federation that I'm involved in. He runs a lot of
great meats in Florida. And so I flew down. I
was like, you know, I'll catch up with Jordan. I'll
catch up with some of those guys. And this guy's
name is Martin, and as like, I really want to
make sure this at this this kid just starts off
on the right foot and you know, he doesn't hurt
himself and all these things.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
So anyways, he ended up doing really well.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Since, like I said, dead lift at eight hundred pounds
and he's like, right, around like a two thousand pounds total,
which is crazy because he just turned twenty years old,
which is like, you know, someone's life dream, but that's
that's the world we live in. So in a case
like that, I try to, you know, if I could
be there in person and the game day coaching that
that's really fun for me. I'm sure you remember. I'm

(33:25):
sure you know you were at some of those meets,
you know when one of the most fun things for
me was, you know, like handling guys like Larry and
some of the others that I did, and making those
game time decisions. Like to me, like that's like where
the coach really is important and shine. So like maybe
all the communication leading up to that point helps you
become more familiar with the athletes so you can make
those decisions.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Larry was a good example not to keep using him
as example.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
By know people know him, Like a lot of his
records looked really easy, but he was such an explosive lifter,
so I had to like really kind of pinpoint the
little small deviations in his form or bar speed. I
might not be able to see you've been working with
someone for a long time, you might be like, oh,
he's sandbagging. Oh that was easy, and you know, like
if five pounds more around that bar, you would would
have crumbled, you know. But that's just the type of

(34:09):
lifter he was. So anyways, that's kind of like some
things that I like to like kind of look out
for in terms of on the powerlifting side of things.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
But I think you hit the nail on the head.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
I think at a certain point, I think once your
technique is kind of good enough, you just need it's
really just about accountability and developing the relationship with the
person and just kind of adjusting like as needed, because
you know your technique is only going to be so
good at a certain point and then you just have to,
like it just takes time. Just takes time to get
stronger and bigger and you know, and all those things.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
So yeah, I think maybe I'm also speaking a little
bit from my perspective because from a technical standpoint, I
was a really good technical lifter. I just was the strongest,
you know, and those things are not They don't equal
each other, Like they rely on each other, but they
don't equal each other. Sure for sure. That actually one
of the greatest frustrations of my entire lifting career was

(34:59):
way back in the day. I think it was two
thousand and nine. We had we had Louis in the
house here for a seminar, and he was doing like
form checks, technique checks, whatever, and I was most concerned
about my deadlift because it was sort of the most
challenging thing to me other than wearing a venture, which

(35:20):
I never was comfortable in adventure. Now, not one minute
of one day was I ever comfortable an adventure. But
I had him look at my deadlift and he's like, yeah,
you're fine. It's like you don't have any there's no critique,
there's nothing you can do to help me. It's like, no,
your form is fine. We just need to get stronger.
It's like, well, fuck, that's not what I wanted to hear.
I want to hear there was just a flaw that

(35:42):
if I just corrected, I'm going to, you know, put
fifty pounds on my deadlift. And it was it was
not the case.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
It was not true. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
It's it's funny sometimes where you just think it's like
anything else you know, you want, there's going to be.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
This one trick, and then yeah, one trick.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah, and it's assess that's not how most most things work.
A lot of times, it's like, you know, it's consistency
over time with weight loss, with training training, it's like,
you know, it's probably gonna take longer.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Let you think one thing. I think it's good to
know any goal.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
It's I think we overestimate what we could do in
the short term, and but we underestimate what we could
do long term. So when it comes to weight loss, strength,
like you know, when I first started lifting, I wasn't
thinking about like I'm gonna squad nine hundred pounds, you know,
like it's.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Just but you do it. You do it long enough,
you do it for five years, you do it for ten.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Years, you get you get pretty good, and sometimes you
kind of surprise yourself. But yeah, I think then people
when you're I think the hardest thing this day and
age is that when we're consuming content, whether it's you're
an entrepreneur, you're a lifter, fitness people, we're seeing like
the best of the best, and we get really warped
with like, you know, what we should be like working towards.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
And we just see a snapshot.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
We don't see like everything kind of beforehand, you know,
And that's if the photos aren't edited and and photoshops
and all this other nonsense. But because a lot of
times it's like literally like this is not like an
attainable physique because it's not like real. But yeah, you
know so, but yeah, I think it's just gonna take
It's gonna take a lot longer. But if you put
in the time and you have a good system in place,

(37:15):
you just kind of you you repeat the play and
you keep going and keep getting a little bit better.
You troubleshoot, you get a little bit better. But I
think that's where like kind of having a coach to
kind of like consult with to kind.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Of have realistic expectations.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
But what's what's challenging is sometimes you have coaches that
might kind of give someone unrealistic expectations and just to
kind of sell them, and that that's that's I see
this a lot more in a when I was a
little bit more in tune with bodybuilding, like when I
was competing at the time, I saw some people that h.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
So, so I don't want.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
You know, without getting too much to personal details, like
so my wife did some some bodybuilding and physique competing
before you know, we got together and she's had thighorre
had problems ever since because she kind of followed the
coach's advice.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
It was not good. So she got ready for the show.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
And now she has to like, you know, be on
these medications and stuff long term, and it's just like
kind of it's just really unfortunate and it sucks. And
you know, she's doing a lot better, like doing more.
You know, she still looks great. She just dropped a
weight class and so she's making her one forty eight
debut for you know, so yeah, it's just cool. You know,
it's just different goals and whatever. And she still looks great.

(38:25):
You know, she's she's lean and she's strong, and but yeah,
like the bodybuilding like really like messed her up. And
you know, it's just like she just followed what the
coach was saying and it just wasn't like great advice.
And and a lot of people just like you know,
they're trying to be a good, good client, and you know,
it's it's it's kind of scary because we're dealing with
people's bodies and you know, so you do the best

(38:46):
she can and hopefully, uh, you know, you just have
good communication with the coach but not not every coach
like is equipped to you know, kind of work with
these you know, types of clients, and you know, they
may not understand the long term ramifications of what they're prescribing,
you know.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
So yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I I I do.
I do wonder if they're like what percentage of bodybuilding
coaches take that into consideration. And the other the other
thing is, though, just other observation is that bodybuilding coaching

(39:23):
seems to me to be such a black box, like
you don't, like, you don't really know what's going on
a lot of the time with with how people are
being programmed or what they're being told to take or whatever,
if it's based on just a lot of of bro science,
or if there's really something going on, and and you know,

(39:45):
there're the whole issue with with diuretics like killing people,
and it just it just seems like there isn't enough
there isn't enough like solid knowledge about in general, what's
going to happen to people when they go through these

(40:05):
extreme measures really to to to try to win or
like win a local show, for heaven's sake. I mean,
it can be it can be a bit much, I guess.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, so it's it's kind of interesting.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
I know, like we we're talking about bodybuilding right now,
but even like the power Latin context.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
So one thing that's so.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Obviously like when you when you kind of it's food
and potentially drugs and they said diuretics and stuff. So
I think, you know, educating yourself is important. One thing
that I've been pondering a lot lately. You kind of
mentioned like with this new age of you know, the
tested lifter walked out stiff bar. I mean, we're we're
seeing we're seeing we're seeing lifts done raw with you know,

(40:58):
supposedly natural all these things you know that rival like
good equipped lifts from back in the day, and these people,
you know, there's people and like there's like.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
The guy Austin Perkins.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
I don't know if you kind of how much you followed,
you know, squat and seven hundred pounds at one sixty five.
I mean that's a good lift, you know, in knee
wraps and a squad suit. So and and I'm not
saying him specifically, but what I've kind of seen we
went from this very popular kind of West Side approach
with a lot of variation, a lot of bands and

(41:29):
chains fairly, you know, more modest or lower volumes on
certain things. Maybe not the accessories, but for like the
main lifts, kind of lower volume, higher intensity, more variation.
And now it's like maybe there might be assessories, there
might not. It's mostly with a straight bar some of these.
I don't know if you know this is the case
in your gym, but I've heard some of the female

(41:51):
lifters are benching like five times a week, some of
the squatting three or four times a week. And I
just also kind of wonder, especially for like the stronger athletes,
like what are the ramifications of overuse? Are we just
speeding up? They're like kind of genetic potential are they?
Are they just reaching their ceilings sooner? Or are there
going to be downstream effects for when these teenage lifters

(42:13):
and when these junior lifters are our age or older.
What is that going to do orthopedically? Because I don't
know about you, but I can't imagine putting a strapear
in my back more than once once a week, even
just for my for my just for my shoulders, let
alone my spine.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
These are just things I think about, and I think
that a lot of these younger coaches. Sometimes it's good
to like be a little naive because then like you
don't have like a limit put on you. But also
like this is like this isn't just like a video
game where you could hit the reset button, and like
this is like your body and you have one so
and this has taken from someone, you know, I put
a thousand pounds on my back. I've been three hundred

(42:52):
and forty pounds. I've done a lot of not so
smart things for my health. But so I don't know,
It's just one of those things where I think sometimes coaches,
if you have like a twenty something year old coach,
they're not They're not going to have the life experience
where I think having I think experience is important. But
I still try to like stay up on like the
current trends, but I also wonder what's gonna happen like

(43:14):
ten or twenty years down the line, or even five
years down the line if like you know, because we
don't really have data like on like this is a
whole brand new thing. The weights that these kids are doing.
These kids are squading, you know, like I mentioned the kid,
so my kind of goal with someone like Martin who's
like these deadlifting eight hundred pounds at this point, just
try to keep them as healthy as pop And I
did this with Larry too, try to keep as healthy

(43:35):
as possible for hey, like, there's risk in this, but
at some point powerleul thing, you're gonna be done and
you're gonna want to be in one piece.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
So have fun with it.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
But also just the kind of you know, with great
power comes great responsibility, you know, the spider it's it's
it's really and the and the stronger you get and
the more influence you have over in the same thing
with you know, with popularity and stuff like, I think
people just need to be more careful with what they
put out into the ether because these are people's bodies
we're talking.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
I don't know, these are just not to be.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Like the old grumpy guy, but these are just things
I think about from someone that's been in the sport
for a long time, and I love and I love it.
I think people should do it, but I think you
just need to proceed, you know, with with caution too.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I don't know. So that's this kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
That's been on my mind lately, with seeing these young
kids just do incredible things. But I just kind of wonder,
what are the what are the downstream effects when they're
no longer lifting or they're no longer competing anymore.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
I should say, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
The breakpoint on competing for me was when it started
to affect the like the rest of my life. Like
when I was you know, banged up and couldn't do
things I wanted to do, couldn't sleep because my shoulder hurt,
you know that, those those things, it's like, it's not
worth it to me anymore. But past that point, but
it went to the younger lifters. I think the point

(44:52):
is that like the there isn't quite enough focus on
injury prevention, and just like back in the in the
geared you know, in the geared era, the younger lifters,
they they some of them could do fantastic things and

(45:14):
then just be gone because of you know, not just
because they're they're like life change or whatever, because they
were injured in such a way that they couldn't come
back and hit the levels they did before, so there
was no point for them to go on. And I
think I see that now too in the tested federations
you're you know, twenty two twenty three year old lifters
who are are really coming up in the sport and

(45:37):
then they are hitting it awfully hard and they're they're
handling weights that their bodies are not quite ready for
it because they've been training for you know, some of
them two three or four years and not they don't
have the a long enough base and uh and they
just don't They just don't hold up overall. And then

(45:59):
they know that has to compete also with the just
just changing focus, you know, like they want to do
something else. They realize that they're they're giving X number
of hours a week two to powerlifting when they could
be doing something else. You know, I think it just
it it is hard for a young lifter to come up,

(46:19):
be successful and have longevity in the sport.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, And I think it's it's it's for me hard
to kind of think about that when you're you know,
maybe eighteen or nineteen, but like, do you want to
be a flash in the pan? Do you want to
do this a long time? So I kind of like recognized,
like after I did my bodybuilding stan, I was like
I was.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Kind of missing it.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
So it was kind of cool that had that time
off and the other thing I kind of realized, like,
oh my shoulders feel like better?

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Am I?

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Like you know, you just kind of like you know,
like it's just it's just like different something like where
going back to like you know, athletics where you kind
of have this like general foundation, and I think that
powerlifters make it like so like almost too specific to
too soon. And like a lot of us, we probably
grew up with Arnold and cycloped, we just kind of

(47:04):
did more like kind of whether the workouts were good
or not, we just did a lot of like just
general stuff maybe PDE calisonics whatever. We didn't just like
go to like SBD SBD like from the get go.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
We had a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
General exposure to things. So I think sometimes just maybe
taking some time off. So one of the things I
like to do with our guys too is sometimes it
is just like you know, and some listen, some don't.
But like it could be two weeks, it could be
one week, it could be three or four weeks, just
do like some machines or some maybe they like strong
man training, maybe they like you know, maybe they like

(47:36):
to We have a girl she uh, she likes to
do like swimming and running and stuff. So when she's
like not competing, like she'll do a little bit more
of that, you know, and then she'll kind of come
back to powerlifting.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
And and again it's like if you're not.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Like trying to break records, which most people are again
calling a spade spade. Most people are not going to
break an all time world records, just you know, uh,
there's nothing wrong with like coming back to it at
a later date and maybe having a little bit like
have strength on the back burner for a little bit
and maybe you have a little bit more endurance or
like body composition focus. I think that's always a kind

(48:09):
of a I try to encourage some of our lifters,
you know, drop a little body fat after a meet,
you know, maybe do a little bit more like up
your cardio a little bit, just change your training stimulus.
I think it's also just good for your brain just
to kind of do and then you kind of kind
of miss some of the heavy lifting, you kind of
come back to it, so just kind of spreading out
the training plan a little bit, so you're not always
like I think, I don't know if you were guilty

(48:31):
of this, but sometimes it's like okay, like when when's
the next meet, you finishing meet, when's when's the next meet?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Or you get right back to it like kind of
too soon.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, and that can kind of cause its own problem,
especially you know, maybe your spines, like you know, was
under a lot of stress, or you have some like
nagging injuries that need to be taken care of. So
so that's just something where you know, think it a
little bit more long term, and you know, whether it's
your training partners, your a sounding board a coach, try

(48:58):
to have like a little bit more of like the
long the long game in mind, which you know it's
easier said than done, but it's good to like think
about these things.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
If you do, if you do, if you're if your
goal is to do this.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
For a long time, because ultimately, my belief is that
if you can kind of stay in the sport longer
or do this longer, you're gonna have a higher success.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, you know, just.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Just have it. You're just spreading it out.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
So again, my kind of feeling is, I don't know
if you ever had a lot of conversations with a
Brett Contrarast, but one of that we've we've had some
conversations just about like kind of physiology and programming, and
you know, when you increase your frequency, you're basically just
kind of like speeding up the cycle his belief is
and paraphrasing, But but if you increase your frequency, you

(49:41):
also potentially increase like your your risk. So I my,
my kind of if I had to like kind of
put my money on it or make an assumption, I
think the higher frequency lifters will just have a higher
burnout rate if like you know, but also I think
that they will hit their like potential like peak like sooner.
So like you said, like a lot of I think,

(50:02):
you know, we sort of you know, people like you know,
you know, Stan Efforting is a good example, like he
hit a world record, and like I think in his forties,
we're seeing like those lifters kind of they might hit
their peak at like twenty five instead a thirty five.
You know, that's kind of my if I had to guess,
that's kind of my that's kind of where But you know,

(50:22):
I don't know, I could be wrong, but that's just
kind of I think. I think that you're going to
see a lot more turnover for this that style of training.
But but you know, who knows.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah, I think I'm paraphrasing agg Cone when I say, like,
you only have yeah, x number of of of x
weight douglass in your in your body, and and and
so if you burn them all at the beginning, or
you burn them all in training or whatever, then then

(50:52):
then you just don't have them anymore. That that. You know,
I'm heavily paraphrasing here, but you get the idea that
you just have to manage. You have to essentially, like
it's load management. Basically, it's like load management for a
for a longer term career powerlifting. There's just not the
powerlifting has gotten not gotten into its load management area.

(51:16):
I think to run things back for just a second,
you said you were on teenage and early Like when
were you there?

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Probably twenty twelve or so, twelve twenty thirteen.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah, so like, oh man, it's so it's so funny
like when you start kind of like throwing names out
there and stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
So do you remember Peak? I think there's Peak Fitness
in New York City.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
It's no longer a thing, but anyways, there was a
lot of places I was kind of pretty connected also
to just I would say general fitness. You know had
like you know, people like Krusty and Mike Boyle, and
because I was training athletes at the time, so I
was kind of like I felt like I was in
two worlds. Where I was in like the powerlifting world
was like my personal playground, but then like my professional

(52:06):
world was more trains, the conditioning, those sorts of things.
So I kind of rubbed elbows with different people. Yeah,
Like in twenty between like twenty ten and twenty twelve,
I was kind of really up and coming. So like
I went to do internship observational internship at Boyle's and Cressey's.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Tony General Corp.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Was there at the time, and I think that you
know Tony pretty well, and I was just trying to
like learn from as many people as possible. I was
visiting a lot of gyms I went. I did my
first CHIP trip to Westside Barbill I think on twenty twelve.
I remember when like Louis Simmons like answered my email.
I was like I cann't like believe it. And then
and then slowly over time I just got more into

(52:49):
you know, kind of powerlifting and went I went back
to Westside in twenty seventeen for I spent a week there,
but but Yeah, in that timeframe, there was like, you know,
a lot of it was like, you know, the powerlifting people,
and there was more like the general fitness people and
the strength of conditioning crowd, and it was just like
one of those things where I felt like, I don't know,
it's like kind of it was kind of like a

(53:09):
little bit of your stand of approval. So at the time,
I was trying to make a name for myself get
more established. Yeah, and that's where all the great coaches,
the Dan Johns of the world, and you know, the Cresses,
the Boyles and you know, and all those people like
Jim Wendler, like everyone was this kind of on teenation.
So I felt like that was just a natural you know,
I don't know, if nothing else, I kind of met

(53:31):
a lot of people through there, and I think a lot.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Of us before social media, like the forums and in
different things.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
That was just kind of how you communicated and got
ideas from people, and it was cool. It definitely has
changed over the years, and yeah, so I was kind
of like in between like different circles and then slowly,
i'd say, like around like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, like
when 'ra awlifting started to really emerge as like the
prominent like force and powerlifting. Then a lot of my

(53:57):
wrestlers started to graduate and I and I was like,
so in twenty twelve, it was like our first like
kind of parallating competition like as a team. So I
was like, hey, why don't you guys just do this
meat with me? Like you guys aren't wrestling anymore. And
that was kind of like how our team was formed
and then and then kind of the rest was history.
And I think, yeah, I think around like twenty fourteen

(54:20):
was when you know, kind of Larry was getting on
the scene and you know, we went to Boss Barbell
Club and we had the meet at Jesse Burdick's gym,
and it's just there was a lot of great times
in California. I'll say a lot of a lot of
the big meats were on the West Coast, as you know.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yeah, and there was a lot of there's a lot
of history there.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Like a lot of the world records were broken on
the West Coast, and I believe like a lot of
the meats that you were a part of and everyone
else like that was I think that really kind of
put parallating in a different, different level, in terms of participation,
in terms of awareness. It's just really interesting to see
like kind of where it's gone and how the culture

(55:00):
a shifted. But it was a really it was a
really fun time to be like in the sport.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
You know.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
It's funny most of the people who are members of
this gym have like literally like no idea about any
of that history, about my history, about Mike, and you know,
they just don't don't know. It's like, wait a minute,
you guys did a podcast before, or you do a
podcast now that most a lot of our members don't
even get that we that this this happens. I yeah,

(55:24):
I My experience with teenage started in like two thousand
and three and really kind of just went through probably
two thousand and six, two thousand and seven is but
like I was part of even part of a splinter
group that went to another site, uh, and that included
Eric Kressy and totally general Core and those you know,
and Joel Barry in and and a lot of a

(55:46):
lot of people that are very recognizable now, like people
who made names for themselves can be stuck in it.
And when I when I started, I had no intention
of being involved in the industry at all. I was
just trying to lift, you know, I was just just
trying to figure it out, especially when I was like,
you know, forty almost at that point, and so actually

(56:08):
I was forty that year. So yeah, like it was
a very late in lightlifter life, late in life lifter
as a serious lifter, you know, and that that that
was over, you know, in like ten years, ten twelve years.
That's the most I could do. I think the most
we were talking about the number of meats, Like I

(56:30):
think the number the most meats that I did in
a year was three, and that was a lot. That
was like a whole lot.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
I think that if you're especially if you're really kind
of like hitting the gas, like as you get older,
like maybe you have like one serious meat and then one.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Like kind of fun meat.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of like and then and then
again with the single lifts up, I think you can
kind of compete a little bit more often. But but yeah,
full competition is a lot once you kind of you know,
especially when you get some serious.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Weight and you start getting a little mileage on you.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, I see some of these people, like you look
at their open power lifting and you're.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Like, how are you?

Speaker 3 (57:09):
But some people just you know, they may be they
have good recovery genetics or they just really take care
of themselves.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
But yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Yeah, So you were talking about about strict Curl and
you had told me a few days ago that you're
doing a strict Curl meet out here someplace or in La.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
It's gonna be at Larry Wheel's Jim It's an one's
Clairemont we have. It's really it's really incredible. It's so
like funny. How So a little bit of background, So
what twenty twenty was a really interesting time because people
were just like looking for stuff to do. And I

(57:48):
don't want to like give Larry credit for this, but
I think he was certainly part of I don't know,
do you ever Do you ever follow Nick Strength and
Power It's a YouTube channel like kind of bodybuilding news
and anyways.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Popular new YouTube channel.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
It's it's mostly bodybuilding stuff, but he also, uh sometimes
he'll kind of report on strong man and powerlifting and
you know, just it's just kind of like a like
a strength news, strength and fitness news channel kind of thing.
But so Larry among others were like kind of just
it was one of those things where like he just
was like I'm gonna max out on strict Curl and
you got like one kind of viral and then all

(58:22):
these different people, these NFL people were like doing strict
curl and like it was like, you know, they had
people over. It was just kind of like a thing
for a little bit. And strict curl has always been
kind of around, you know. CT Fletcher like had the
American records for like at one point. And uh So
besides like the I S c A, which is like

(58:43):
CT Fletcher's kind of meet that was kind of like
a once a year kind of thing. And there's a
guy in San Diego, Dave Depew and a grinder Jim
And actually I don't know if you ever stay in
touch with a J.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Roberts, but he kind of.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
You know what I should I've been I should he
was part of that early group of people.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Yeah, I'm actually, well, hope my plan is to connect
with eight because I've been more in touch with him
because he's starting to run meets and coach a little
bit more.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
But AJ's gonna also.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Kind of link up with us in January seventeenth when
we go down anyway, it's just kind of like kind
of you know, one of those guys that's like well
connected in like the west that West Side community, and
he's a good dude and you know, someone I consider
a friend. But so so yeah, so all of this
different federation started popping up in twenty twenty one, and

(59:32):
I had one of my guys, his name is John Archibald.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I want to do this strict curl meet.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
And I'm like, I've I did a power curl meet
like when I was like eighteen, in this WNPF organization.
But I was like, I don't really know how to
prep for it. I don't even know if it's safe.
I don't know if you're going to tear your bicep.
But yeah, see of those, I'm like, I guess we'll
try him and see what happens and hope, you know,
hope that. So anyways, he ended up doing pretty well.

(59:57):
I think he curled like one sixty five. One seventy
was a big number. And they started to host us.
They had some striccurl meets at the Arnold. So we've
we've been going we've always been going to the Arnold.
That's a whole other thing. We've been going to the
Arnold for power litting for for years, so I'm like,
I felt like kind of a little bit like washed up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
I'm like, now I'm coaching people for strict curl at
the Arnold.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
This seems like kind of this seems kind of lame,
but any but anyways, I digress. So, so we had
Big John started to do really well. So now fast forward.
Big John recently curled two hundred and ten pounds, is
one of the top curlers in the country. We have
another guy, Ed Joseph. Ed Joseph has records in different federations.

(01:00:38):
In the one twenty he's curled one twenty eight at
one twenty three body weight, which is crazy. And then
he's done around like I think one thirty five and
like the one thirty two weight classes, so he's done
over a bodyweight curl in two different weight classes. My
wife's curled over one hundred pounds. We have another girl,
Hannah's curled over one hundred pounds. So anyways, it's starting
to be like more competitive. And there's like this World

(01:00:58):
World Championships in Virginia Beach, so one of the things.
So most of this is just a whole aside note
that we need not not that we need to get
into this whole uh kind of tested untested thing. But
what I kind of noticed for a strict CURL is
that majority of the meats are drug tested meats only
vast majority of drug tested, so which which is cool

(01:01:18):
and I have no problem with it. But now with
the advent of peptides and TRT and all this stuff,
I just think it's good to have options for everyone
because then also it kind of limits like cheating and stuff,
because it's one of those things where you know, I
think for sport and for records, and obviously you know,
as you know, you could take that stuff too far.
But I do think there is like a medical and
that again that's a you know, a whole other can

(01:01:39):
of worms, but a lot like someone like myself, like
I just want to have fun. I don't want to
have to worry about like getting my underwear checked, pissing
in a cup, like I just want to susteriously. It's
like not to as throciate it any federations.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
But again, the underwear thing is the strangest shit.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
It's like it's always the thing I bring up because
it's like we could change the rule book. Guys, it's
totally you guys have like it's really not. But so
like for me at this point in my like life,
being twenty years into competing, like I'm just not interested
in like doing that personally, and most of our lifters
are just they just want to do this for fun. Yeah,
So we started a Strict Curl Federation in the Strict

(01:02:18):
Curl Division in the rps that we're getting. We have
a lot of meats in uh, We're having one in
New England, We're having some in New York and Delaware,
look at the potentially do one in Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
But yeah, we wanted to bring one to Larry Wheels Jamis.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
We have one of some of the top strict We
have a couple of guys curling over two hundred pounds.
We have a couple of guys that are in the
lighterweight classes that can curl like their body weight or more.
We're trying to get a few more females on the roster.
But it's just kind of again, it's an exciting thing.
Anyone could really get an easy bar, find a wall.
It's very accessible. You don't need calibrated plates. You don't need.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
To buy two hundred dollars knee sleeves.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
You could just you could just you need an easy
Most people like five into an easy bar for free,
like you know, like in their home you see an
easy bar to I don't know if you follow massonmics,
but they say like easy bart is a peers in
your home gym. You don't even have to do anything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
We have one. I have no idea where it came from.
It's like I didn't buy it, so.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Just just appears, so like you don't even need to
get a bar. It's just gonna. It's just gonna. The
bar is gonna find you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
But anyway, so we wanted to provide a meat that
was more accessible to people. You don't need a lot
of time. You could, you could train it once a week.
You don't need to like have if you have n problems,
back problems. So, uh, it's just been something that's been
really fun and we wanted to have. So we're gonna
and I think obviously Larry is a big name, so
we just want to promote more strength sports. And one
of the things that we're trying to do it's just

(01:03:45):
kind of make it like a lower barrier of entry.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
It's still competitive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
We're still gonna keep records, you can still kind of
We're gonna have a nationals for strict curl next June
and uh in a Newcastle, Delaware, So you can take
it as serious as you want, just like powerlifting. But
again it's it's a lower cost on your body and
it's just like fun.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
It's just fun.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
You get just you know, it's like okay, like how
much you know, just like how much you bench. It's like,
all right, well how much can you curl? And just
kind of like do a fun thing. And what I
was very surprised on because of the nature of some
of the bars and stuff. A lot of the competition
bars you can have a little bit more of like
a pronated grip and so your biceps a little bit
less exposed, and it's it's it's relatively Again there's risk

(01:04:26):
in anything you do, but in terms of like worst
case it happens if you strain your form or bicef,
you kind of set it down. You're not gonna like
have a thousand pounds like top of or even like
even the strongest guys that are calling two hundred pounds
the absolute weight is so much lower. So I just
think psychologically it's just like not as taxing on you,
like getting under like a big squad.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
It's like, you know, it's like you got to be
like up for.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
That, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
So there's like a psychological toll and there's a physical
toll to like the final compression. So I think again,
a lot of people think it's my buddy, uh Chris
he Owensburg and County. Well, he's a really good multiply lifter,
and he busts my chops all the time. He's like,
there's nothing more lame than competitive biceps curling. But but uh,
but you know, it's a fun thing and like I've
been enjoying it. My wife's really good at it. We

(01:05:10):
have a bunch of people that are kind of nationally
kind of ranked, and it'll be our first one in
the on the West coast. We're gonna we want to
try to do more stuff at Larry Gym because we
think that now he's like such a he's kind of
like transcended powerlifting a bit at this point and he's
more like mainstream.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
He's more mainstream now for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
And it's kind of cool that, you know, powerlifting and
strength sports is kind of his roots. We want to
kind of like expose is a little bit more of
a general audience to like, hey, this is something you
could do help with your muscle mass, bone density, whatever.
It's something fun because I think at the end of
the day, like if it gets people to the gym
and they're excited about it. And in terms of like
that meat on January seventeenth, we're gonna have some of

(01:05:50):
the best stric crowers in the country, so it'll be
like a good show. And what's nice about strick crow
is you're not gonna be there all day till like
nine o'clock at night. It's a it's very fast, and
that's something that I've kind of said a while. I
think if if power lifting really wanted to be like
a spectator sport, he's got to somehow figure out a
way to shorten the competition or do like single lifts

(01:06:10):
type stuff because it's just it's just too long.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
It's just hard to follow.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
But something like strict crow which is a single lift thing,
it's uh and because the absolute poundage is lower, it
just makes the event you don't need to you don't
need like you don't need a thousand pounds worth of plates.
You may maybe maybe you need two hundred pounds, maybe
two twenty, and you just don't need a lot of spotterers.
It's very safe, you know, you're not because sometimes even

(01:06:35):
when you get to those thousand pounds squats, uh, the
spotters are in danger too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I've seen somebody basically lose part of
a finger and just.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
That's uh yeah, it gets, it gets, it gets really sketchy.
And that's one thing I'm just not a big fan of.
There's a lot of things I like about tested powerlifting,
the IPF, but the combo rocks is not like my
favorite thing for safe for safety for big guys, it's
not you know, but you know, I don't know. This
is not a lot if someone kind of like tear
something with a big squad, there's just not a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Uh. But but yeah, we're real excited for it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
And like I said, it's just there's a lot of
history in California and we're he's hoping to bring more
strength sports to the area and just more stuff, and
I think using Lowry is kind of a vehicle to
help promote it and just get more people involved, like
just getting under you know, the barbell that's kind of
like our goal with like our events, and just kind
of make it just a little bit more fun, a
little bit more accessible, you know, to the average person.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I think it's kind of a throwback to the old
the odd lifts where powerlifting and strong man came from
in the first place. And I know that APA did
used to do strict curl a long time ago.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
That's so funny. So do you want to know what
my last competition was an APA strict curl me? We
did Mister America. So it's so funny because apparently I
didn't know they were still around. But my buddy I
just met him, Robbie, He's like, yeah, it's like APA,
we're like the oldest federation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
I'm like, I didn't know you guys were still around.
So uh.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
They they use like the regular like kind of easy
bar and it was a lot, it was a lot harder,
it was a lot. It was a lot of fun.
But yeah, it was just funny because I'm like, I
didn't know the APA was like still around, but yeah,
apparently they're they're like the oldest federation and they were
the first. Uh, because I was looking at some of
their record their international records, they're pretty like serious.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
So it must have been from back in the day.
Some like crazy uh I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Know, genetic freaks.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Some Russian like freaks or something, you know, like uh,
you know, just like we're crowing like two hundred pounds
or something. I'm like, but but it was cool. It
was fun, Like I said, it just uh, it's just
like it's just the psychological and physical costs is just
so much lower. But you could just still have fun
and lift some weight and and not be afraid that
you're going to like cripple yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
So you know, yeah, well, I mean I have no
reason in my mind why it wouldn't just you know,
grow in popularity. If you think about in the last
like five to seven years, handlifting has gotten to be
a big thing, and like it's that's more your I mean,
that's that's more of a strain than than a strict

(01:09:06):
curl would be. It seems like a strict curl the
barrier to entry is a lot lower.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Yeah, well thanks for coming on with me. Where can
people find you? John?

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
Yeah, I'm at Gaglion Strength and all the social media's
but yeah, just give us a follow up, mostly active
on social We also got a pretty active YouTube channel
more longerform stuff, and we also have a podcast called
Paralleating for the People, and we kind of talk all things,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Strength related, because at the end of the day, we.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
Just want to make strength training and parating accessible for
as many people as we can, Like I said, not
just for like the genetic freaks of the world, but
just for like the everyday people as well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
And I appreciate you coming on.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
It was great to kind of catch up with you, and,
like I said, a lot of my a lot of
great memories we kind of shared together. Yeah, on the
West Coast, and I'm excited to be coming back soon.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
I think we should have coordinate a wardrobe because I
was wearing a shirt that did not have sleeves before
I sat down here, but I changed my shirt and
I've made a hideous mistake. Anyway, I am at dj
McDon all the social media. This show is fifty percent facts.
For a percent is a word in fifty is just numbers.
Fifty percent facts in speaker Pine Podcast associates with o
Art Media on the Obscure Celebrity Network. And I will

(01:10:15):
talk to you again sure

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Thanks man, yeah,

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