April 18, 2025 • 34 mins
302 | greiby medina
Today we’re pleased to introduce you to greiby medina, author of The One Who Loves You the Most. greiby was adopted from Honduras at age two-and-a-half to a single white mother. We discuss changing names, why greiby is not a fan of the term “coming out of the fog”, and being afraid people won’t like us because we’re adopted.
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This podcast is for educationaland entertainment purposes only.
Nothing stated on it either by its hostsor any guests, is to be construed as
psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to AdopteesOn the podcast where adoptees
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discuss the adoption experience.
I'm Haley Radkey.
Today I'm pleased to introduceyou to greiby medina, author of
The One Who Loves You the Most.
greiby was adopted from Honduras at agetwo and a half to a single white mother.
We discuss changing names, why greibyis not a fan of the term coming out
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of the fog and being afraid peoplewon't like us because we're adopted.
Before we get started, I wannapersonally invite you to join our
Patreon adoptee community over onadopteeson.com/community, which helps
support you and also the show tosupport more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommendedresources and as always, links to
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everything we'll be talking about todayare on the website, adopteeson.com.
Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome toAdoptees On greiby medina.
Hello greiby.
Hi, how are you?
I'm great.
I'm so glad to finally geta chance to interview you.
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I'm happy to be here.
Thank you so much for thinking of me.
I feel like I've docked you a fewtimes, like we've had email exchanges,
so I'm really happy that we'd havean opportunity to finally chat.
Yes.
I'd love it.
If you wouldn't mind, would youshare some of your story with us?
Sure.
I was adopted when I was two anda half years old from Honduras.
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I was actually born in San PedroSula, Honduras, and then I was
transferred to Tegucigalpa becausethey deemed me as adoptable because
I was more aligned with white.
I was considered.
Beautiful because I was white,because colorism is a real thing
in Latin America and in Latinidad.
(02:10):
And I actually have learned alot more about my story recently.
I was adopted by a single white motherwho is an educator of deaf education,
and I grew up in Portland, Maine.
I'm an author, I'm a youth advocate,and I live in Spanish Harlem now.
Can you share why you were availablefor adoption at two and a half?
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So the story that was told tomy mother, and my mother was, my
adoptive mother, I'll say, was33 when she went to Honduras.
The story was that my birth mother wasvery young and she gave me up, but the
real story that I know now is my birthmother actually went to prison at age 20.
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She had me when she was 19.
She went to prison for defendingme because she was pregnant with
me and somebody was trying to stealme when she was pregnant with me.
So she went to prison and then therewas no one to take care of you, so the
government took you in some capacity.
My mother.
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Had one of my sisters, we allhave different fathers, right?
When she was 15, so they kicked her out.
She was born in a very small cityand she went north to make money
and try to bring money back home.
And her plan was to probablystay in that bigger city.
She was essentially estranged fromthat family, but she was raised by her
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grandmother and she was kicked out asa young person like I'll say primary
school, like young from her mother.
Her mother wasn't interestedin having a child, so all she
really knew was being displaced.
And, all of her rights werestripped from her because she
was a non person essentially.
She was literate.
And when someone is put up for adoption,there's a notice in the newspaper,
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but the notice was in a different cityand my mother was sitting in jail.
How is she going to be like,oh, it's actually my child.
So how did you come to know the new story?
Were you an adult already?
Yeah, I was an adult already.
Facebook I have been.
Classic.
Me too.
And literally.
(04:28):
Yeah.
And it's like we have a very, huh.
Complicated relationshipwith Facebook right now.
A lot of us in the world.
And I wanna also say too, partof my story is that I've always
known that I was adopted.
I've always had my paperwork.
I've always known what my name is, andso even when I was a child, like 9, 8,
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7, 6, I was looking for my birth familyand my mother was like, go for it.
But we didn't have Facebook back then.
If I was seven and I had Facebook, Iprobably would've found my birth mother,
but I came to know my story becauseI went on like an affinity group for
that small town that she grew up in.
And I posted 'cause I speak Spanish.
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And when I say small, like smalland obviously the population
has gotten bigger since then.
So when she grew up in theseventies, everyone knows everyone.
They're like, oh, that thewhite house by the church.
Yes, of course we know them.
So they knew exactly who Iwas talking about and, her,
my aunt, I guess messaged me.
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So have you been able to connect anyfurther with family members there?
Yeah, so you know what's interesting isthat, I wouldn't say interesting, but
I was actually literally moving to NewOrleans as this was happening because
I wasn't expecting it to be real.
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Do you know what I mean?
I wasn't expecting to actually.
For somebody to be like,oh yes, that's that.
That is I, and so I did.
I connected and they actually didn'tbelieve me that I was who I said I was
because I have the same name spelleddifferently as my younger sister.
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My sister, who is so why I'm gonna be 38.
My younger sister, greiby,that spell with Y and she's 25.
Same exact name, middle name, twolittle spelled a little differently.
And she's a character I'll say.
And so they thought that she, we werelike, they were being punked and I looked
like her dear, or she looks like me.
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So a lot of it was me trying toconvince them that I was who I was.
And I'm literal, there's moving peoplecoming in and outta my apartment.
And I was like, can we talk later?
And then they werelike, we're your family.
Don't you wanna talk now?
I'm like, sure.
But so we had to put a pin in it.
I think that's such a goodobservation for people, right?
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With the reunion, things likeit happens during our real life.
Yeah.
You're moving and all of a suddenthe messages are coming in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did your mom keep your original name then?
Were you named greiby at birth?
No, I wasn't.
I had an Italian name.
A very long hyphenated Italianname, which is, I love that name.
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But she actually was going throughHurricane Gabrielle when she went
to Honduras, and that's why she,that's why she named me Gabrielle.
That was my former name.
And she kept my mom's nameAlicia, for my middle name.
So I thought it was beautiful, butwhen I got older and I actually
reclaimed my name like in 2020.
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So pretty recently, but I thinkprobably when I was like 16, 17,
18, I told people to call me greiby.
Do you know what I mean?
Like people called me that Ichanged my name together, all
different types of names and thatwas just something that I did.
So your biological family,you were named greiby then.
Correct yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
And now you've renamedyourself that, okay.
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Yes.
Yeah.
Oh, that's interesting.
So then your mom chose to nameyour younger sister greiby as well.
Yeah.
And the story with that, by the way,is actually sad, but as a writer, you
kind of transmute sadness into art.
But she knew she was notgoing to see me again.
She got out of prison.
She, again, was not believed.
We have the family curseis not being believed.
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She was not believed that I existedbecause they're like, you were,
what do you mean you're pregnant?
I don't see a baby.
And so she named my younger sistergreiby to remember me, 'cause she
knew she would never see me again.
And then she died when I was 12, so shedied at age 33, which is interesting
because that's when my mom adopted me.
Oh, I'm sorry.
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Yeah.
She had a very hard life.
Poverty killed my mother.
That's what I say.
Yep.
And that's why you wereavailable for adoption, right?
Exactly.
Poverty.
Yeah.
So have you gone back to Honduras?
I have.
I've gone back three times, at least.
The first time I was volunteering ata nonprofit organization on the coast.
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And I had a terrible time actuallybecause a lot of people had different
opinions about why they wanted to bethere, and they didn't really recognize or
appreciate that I was literally Honduran.
And, um, my profound reason for beingthere might be different than theirs.
And so I was only therefor three or four months.
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But I was friends with this woman whoowned a bar or a restaurant on the beach
and I just sat there all the, like almostevery day and hung out with her and her
family and had fried fish and chips.
But I've definitely it's interestingthat you ask that question because I
often feel like when I go back, 'causeI've gone to Latin America multiple
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times, but I feel like when I go.
I'm not appreciated for, I'm not sayinglike appreciated, appreciate me, but
like I'm not seen as a literal LatinAmerican because I am so Americanized.
And so we have people from Norway,Sweden, whatever, international students
who might be doing missionary work,whatever they're doing, and I speak
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fluent English and maybe my Spanishwasn't as good as it is now, and I'm
just this person that is from Maine.
And so it's okay, got it.
So definitely been back and when I wasthere, actually it was really beautiful
because the, that woman that I was justtalking about, her husband was one of
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the local taxi drivers and he wantedto help me find my birth family and
get my ID and do these certain things.
But like I was supposed to bevolunteering, like I was not
supposed to be doing these things.
Were you ready to search then?
Absolutely.
Did.
You wanted to?
Okay.
Yeah.
I feel like I have, I have OCD,so there's like always like this
PI and in my brain, like a privateinvestigator in my brain, and I'm very
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good at compartmentalizing as well.
So I was like, let's go, let's do it.
Go time.
But at the same time, I'm like,I need to, I, I need to be
at my post I'm volunteering.
So we didn't really get to, that didn'tcome into fruition unfortunately.
And then, I did leave because Ijust, the environment was strange
to me and then all of a suddenI ended up adopting 12 kittens.
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Yeah.
So what was it like growing up in Maine?
Maine is beautiful.
Maine in itself as a stateis a beautiful state.
I loved being a kid before I went tokindergarten, before I entered school.
I loved being with my mom, my mom, as achild, and being coddled by my mom and
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being safe with my mom, I loved that.
When I got to school and then when I met,started meeting people, school was very
difficult because I had cerebral palsy.
I had surgery when I was fiveor six years old, so I was
literally recovering from surgery.
I was in a wheelchairfor probably eight weeks.
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I was in cast, I was in braces.
I was bullied a lot for different,various reasons for being
adopted, for looking different.
Maine right now is probablythe second most, second
whitest state in North America.
Vermont takes the pie for that.
Yep.
And I will say too, that Portland,Maine is contrary to popular belief.
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Pretty diverse.
You know the high school that I went to,we spoke over 200 languages because we
do have a lot of immigrants that cometo Maine for various reasons, because
we do have some really great resources.
So you write in your book, and we'll talkabout it a little bit later, but about
this group of kids that come together.
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And so I know community andfriendship's really important to you.
Were you able to build that foryourself as a teen or even younger?
Yeah.
Good on, yes.
Yeah.
I definitely, write from a place of thisunmet childhood need, or childhood, I
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would even say wound or trauma of notreally finding authentic community,
I. I did find it in a couple offriends, but I don't think I ever had
like a breakfast club like community.
I think that's fantastical and people,if people have that, I hope they do.
That's awesome.
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In high school, I think, this isthe funny thing, I played sports
all through from like secondgrade to graduated high school.
I was very good at sports,upper body 'cause I have cp.
Okay.
What did you play?
I played softball, lacrosse,swimming, couldn't do basketball.
I tried.
I was like, I can't run you guys.
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And then I did icehockey and field hockey.
So I was always playing sports.
When you're in sports, alot of times the default is.
You're popular and I'mfunny, so I used humor.
I was actually a lot funnierthan I am now, folks.
I'm a little traumatized.
I did have a group of friendsquote you know what I'm saying?
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Sure cliquey of people thatlike I could sit at lunch with.
But I didn't really particularlyreally agree with a lot of the things
that they did, and I would oftenbe like somebody that would float
around and just talk to everybody.
So in our previous discussionsand emailing back and forth, you
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mentioned to me that you weren't outtathe fog, you were never in a fog.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Are you comfortable sharing about that?
What do you mean by that?
Yeah, I think I was very firm with that.
I was like, I was never in the fog.
I think it's and maybe you cancorrect me if I'm wrong too,
'cause it's a lot of times.
I'm gonna make a comparison, andmaybe this is outlandish, but
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like when even when we talk aboutwhite supremacy or we talk about
kinds of cultures of dismantlingthese internalized, very harmful
systems and we're like I'm not that.
I could never be that.
You are that because we all are thatbecause that's what is ingrained
in us and that's cultural and it'scapitalism and it's these things.
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When I say I don't believe that Iwas, because I was actively not.
Being that or being in it.
So every day I wasactively not in the fog.
I would like to ask you actually,how would you define the fog as,
because everyone has I'm very Ilike to be precise with language.
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Are we using the same shared language?
When we talk about these things, right?
You're a writer and I know it'svery important to you you get the
word, you get right to the words.
So there's a new model now calledthe adoptee consciousness model,
which I like very much, and they talkabout these different touch points.
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As we go through adulthood andexamine adoption, there's all of
these things that we may come toor may not, and it's a little bit
different than describing the fog.
So in the fog, I would always talk about,it's like examining what adoption has,
how it has really impacted our lives.
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And you are coming into awareness of that.
And so I think the problem a lot ofpeople have with that language is
it's you're either in or you're out.
And that's not really how it is.
Like eight years ago, I would say, oh, I'mout of the fog, and here I am eight years
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later being like an activist to help moremothers keep their babies, and how can
we, fully engage in family preservationwork and those kinds of things.
I had no language for that back then.
I knew there was something wrongwith stranger adoption in my case.
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I knew that there were a lot of peoplewho felt like actually crazy because
adoption's the best thing ever.
What do you mean you don't feellike you fit in your family?
And so you internally feel likethere's something wrong with you.
But I don't fit here and I'm not grateful.
And so all of those pieces would be.
(17:30):
Quote unquote, coming outta thefog or the adoptee consciousness
model is really interesting.
We'll link to it in the show notes forfolks who wanna have a look at it and
engage with it a little bit more withthe different touch points because it's
much more helpful and not as linear.
Because it's not linear.
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And when you were talking aboutthat too, I think in tandem
and also complimentary to that.
I'm thinking of grief andhow grief is just not linear.
You're not
Exactly.
I'm not grieving anymore.
Yeah.
Sometimes we are and sometimes we'renot, and sometimes we think we're not.
And it's just not linear.
And grief looks so different.
For everyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
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And every day.
Exactly.
Like you could have memories of yourloved one and it brings joy to you
'cause are delighting in some past thing,reliving, and then the next day you're
like, oh my gosh, like you're not here.
Yes.
I could never look at you again.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So it's really about nuance and.
Yeah, I think it's very complex.
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So I.
It sounds like to me, I don'twanna put words in your mouth,
do it,
it sounds like to me,
I'd love it
that your mom was really good attalking to you about adoption.
Yes.
Talking to you about being Honduran.
Yes.
And all of those things.
Yes.
And she tried to, and she'd listen.
I was actually the resistant one.
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Okay, because she, listen she put me inlanguage school, like Spanish school.
She was like, do youwanna go Spanish school?
I was like, sure.
I quit after two days.
There was a Bolivianfamily that lived near me.
I was embarrassed because I actuallyhad a crush on the older sister.
There were different situations where,and then she was like, I don't wanna
keep putting you in these situations,because I know I'm embarrassing you.
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I want you to be ready to connect withLatin American and like back then.
Back then, I'm so old now.
I'm wise.
I'm not old.
It's an age it's a number.
There were not that many,
I think four years ahead of you.
So
we are wise beyond that, no,but like back then I'm growing
up in Portland, Maine, and.
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I was born in 1987, so I'm 10.
In 1997, I probably saw two LatinAmerican people in my high school.
That doesn't mean that they didn't existor in my actual class, like not class
one, 200 people in the classes that Ihad, like science, whatever, every day.
And they came fromdifferent neighborhoods.
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I grew up in a suburban north Deering.
I wasn't rich, it was just, backthen there was a middle class.
There was like an uppermiddle class thing.
It was weird, but I was not exposedto, it was either an immigrant
population of Latin American folksthat were in downtown Portland.
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And that I was not, that, that was15 minutes away from where I lived.
I went down there to have coffeeand go to the movies, but I was
in a different socioeconomicbracket, so I was not exposed.
And then when I did have that oneBolivian family that I talk about in
one of those, in the Catapult article, Ifumbled to the ball, you know what I mean?
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Because I was, I personally on a soullevel was not ready to be vulnerable
with them because I was afraid that asif they didn't know that I was adopted.
They did.
They did, but I was afraidthat they wouldn't like me.
Because I was adopted.
I think I'm thinking of, I just had thistherapy session a couple weeks ago, and
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that's literally what I started out sayingto the therapist I was working with.
Wow.
Like my first thing was like, I'mafraid you're not gonna like me.
Yeah.
And it's this deep corebelief that a lot of us hold.
I'm afraid you won'tlike me, I'm unlovable.
What's the reason we were separatedfrom our original parents?
There's some, and you can look backnow and be like, she was in prison.
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Literally,
it's not right.
But it's,
I wanna say like spiritually gratefulthat I've always felt and known
like I'm very spiritual in thisway, where I'm very connected to.
I've always been veryconnected to my birth mother.
Like really?
Like I knew when she wasno longer in the world.
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I really did when I waslike, when I was 12.
It was interesting 'cause my grandmother,whom I loved, my Italian grandmother,
I'm just gonna say Italian grandmother,my aunt, so when my Italian grandmother
died around the same time, I just, beforeeven that phone call happened, I was like.
Grandmother's, our grandmother's dead.
I have always been, because even inthinking of motherhood and I'm not
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a mother, I'm not gonna go there.
But even in thinking of like whyisn't this person contacting me?
We have Facebook, we havethis, they're not okay.
If they know that theyhave a kid out there.
So I have always known that there is areason, and by the way, my mom alicia,
she tried to come to America three timesand she was unsuccessful, and half of my
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family actually lives in North America,but she was unsuccessful and there's still
a lot that I wanna uncover about her.
I'm still studying and doinga lot of things in here, but
like it's, I still feel like.
She deserves justice.
So do you feel like there was apoint in your time where you felt,
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okay, now I feel Honduran versusthe Americanized version of you?
Or do you still feel justlike a mix of identities?
And you were talking about the firsttime you went to Honduras and people
were like, we, you're not from here.
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How about the third time?
Did you ever feel like you belongedthere or you were from there?
Oh, listen, I havedefinitely felt like that.
Okay.
Different things and different, and Ithink it's Honduran people and not that
you're saying this right, but it dependson who I meet and where I am locally.
In the physicality of Honduras.
Like I could be in Tegucigalpa andthey're like, oh, I totally get it.
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For sure.
'cause there could be internationalstudents that are coming back and visiting
family and they're like, yeah, I get it.
We're third culture kids, or whateverit is at this end of the day.
It's what they're projecting onto me.
And I've literally have always,from how as long as I can remember,
and I have a very good memory.
I like to remind people I've beenproud of who I am, where I come from,
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and the things that I don't knowabout myself since kindergarten, since
first grade, since I did my star ofthe week and, begged them to let me
go first and talk about Honduras.
You know what I mean?
But then I was shut down and.
I'm not gonna mention her name'cause she's still around and she
raises her hand and she says, yeah,that's nice, but where's your dad?
Why don't you have a dad?
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And so that's when I stoppedsharing because I'm telling you
something I'm very proud of.
And you care about, like there area lot of people that don't have
dads here and that aren't adopted.
Why do you care so much?
Yeah.
So yeah.
Kids are brutal.
So, brutal.
Yeah.
Kids can be so brutal.
So brutal.
But you know what?
I still like kids and I write for kids.
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I like their, they're honest.
You don't have to be, youdon't have to be mean.
I like their honesty though.
Yeah.
I was gonna say they tell it like itis, but they don't always need to.
I'm thinking of your Honduranmother and the story you said about.
They were trying to steal youbefore you were even here and just
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the child trafficking of it all.
The system is just so broken.
And our society sees opportunities forswooping in and saving, quote unquote.
Instead of really what 's broken ishelping kids stay with their families.
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Put the money into thefamilies that are struggling.
Yeah, and just to clarify too, shewas working as a live-in like cleaning
person, so it was actually them.
That was like, so it's
That we're gonna try and steal you.
Because they thought Yeah,because she was very beautiful.
Like literally, right?
So they're like, this isgoing to be a beautiful baby.
We own you.
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Literally we feel like we own you.
And yeah, it's very traumatic and it'sgood thing I can compartmentalize, no
woman, no person deserves to be separatedfrom their loved one in any way like that.
Obviously and in any way periodto their biological loved one.
Okay.
Before we do recommended resources,is there anything I missed
(26:19):
asking you about that you reallywanna mention or talk about?
Listen, I'm really happythat you have this podcast.
Honestly, I have known aboutthis podcast forever and when I
say forever, eight years plus.
And so I really wantedto thank you for that.
Like big props.
It's not an easy thing to do.
Big production.
Awesome.
(26:40):
I wanted to just shout youout and thank you again.
Aw, thanks.
greiby.
That's so kind of you.
Yeah I found your book.
I don't even remember when,it was, when it was first out.
The One Who Loves You the Most, wouldyou, this is YA or is it middle grade?
That's so funny you said that,like that's what people say.
It's actually technically middle grade.
(27:02):
Okay.
I was wondering about that.
Yeah, because middle grade'seight years old to like 12,
okay,
so they're, yeah.
Yeah.
So I read it then, and this time whenI reread it, I listened on audio.
Oh, cool.
And it was so lovely.
I really enjoyed listening toit, and I thought that the person
(27:23):
who read it did a great job.
It's a really cool picture ofwhat community could look like for
someone who is searching for that.
I feel like you really did put abig part of your story in here,
and I'm thinking of your mom inparticular, the mother character.
(27:43):
She's just, as you described,your mom to us today.
And yeah, it's just really
thank you.
It's a beautiful story.
We talked about this beforeabout representation.
We haven't talked about it here.
I'm sorry.
A previous conversation I hadwith greiby for listeners,
' cause I'm a yapper, I don't stop talking.
Yes, we did talk.
We probably have, yes.
(28:03):
I love that you wrote a book that maybeyou needed when you were in school, so
Absolutely.
I think absolutely.
I did.
Yeah.
And I hope that young peoplecontinue to read my book.
Teachers, if you're listening, librarians.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Okay, so we'll make sure tolink to it in the show notes.
(28:26):
And I love adopteerepresentation also in books.
And that's in there too.
Yeah.
And I have, can I ask you a question?
Do you feel like it is, obviously I'man adopted person that wrote it, but
do you glean from the book that is anadopt, it's like about adoption too,
because there's so many different themes.
I don't want that to get lost.
Oh, definitely.
(28:46):
Oh, definitely.
I think the protagonist isreally searching for who am I?
What's my identity?
And so I felt so deeply for thembecause not only as an adoptee, you're
(29:08):
looking for your identity in this worldand you've got all the layers here.
Yeah, it's complicated, but that's,
it's complicated.
That's what our lives are, right?
It's complicated.
Yeah.
Okay.
So greiby, we are gonna order your book,but what do you wanna recommend to us?
Honestly, I just want people to, ifthey have an interest, to tap into that
(29:31):
interest and to keep learning and growingand failing and being okay to fail.
Because when we learn from our failures.
We become better people andthat makes the world better.
Do you wanna share aboutAdoptees of South America?
Oh, absolutely.
I actually stumbled across them.
I. A few years or maybe during Covid,COVID was a time when we were online.
(29:55):
I have chatted with them online afew times and they're just wonderful.
They have, they do events.
They have a wonderful communityfrom literally adoptees from
South America and Central America,and they're lovely people.
I believe one of thefounders is a social worker.
They are on Instagram.
Adoptees of South America.
(30:15):
They also have a website and a linktree that is in their Instagram as
well, and you can find out more there.
Okay.
We'll make sure to link to that.
Yeah.
I think especially for adoptees, likewhen you're looking for community and
whatever kind of supports you need, ifyou're searching or in reunion or you're
trying to navigate intercountry searching,like all of those kind of things.
(30:38):
It's really cool to connect withadoptees who are adopted from the
same country you are, or similar.
Yeah.
Region.
Yeah.
And also I'll say just as a sidebar aslike a note about that is look at who
they follow and who likes their posts.
Because a lot of times thereare a lot of different new
collectives, I'll say organizationsfor adoptees and by adoptees.
(31:00):
And maybe that's a community for you too.
Definitely.
Thank you so much fortalking with me greiby.
Such an honor.
And I don't, I won't ask wherepeople can connect with you
online since you're offline.
I'm so mysterious.
You're mysterious.
But we will link to your book.
(31:20):
And a couple of the articlesthat you've written so people
can read your work there.
Cool.
Thank you.
I know I've said this before, but I justwanna remind y'all if you are hoping to
support adoptee authors and your book buylist is getting extensive and too many for
(31:41):
on your TBR pile, another great way youcan support adoptee authors is requesting
their books from your local library.
Often libraries will have a suggestwe buy this book page and my, my local
library, I think you can suggest up tofive books a month and you can write
(32:02):
in the name an author of the book.
You can tell them why you want themto purchase it, and often they will.
And so it's a great way to supportadoptee authors and have more people
have access to their work in the world.
So I love doing that for adoptee authors.
(32:24):
Anyway thank you so much for listening.
Let's talk again soon.
This podcast is for educationaland entertainment purposes only.
Nothing stated on it either by its hostsor any guests, is to be construed as
psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to AdopteesOn the podcast where adoptees
(00:20):
discuss the adoption experience.
I'm Haley Radkey.
Today I'm pleased to introduceyou to greiby medina, author of
The One Who Loves You the Most.
greiby was adopted from Honduras at agetwo and a half to a single white mother.
We discuss changing names, why greibyis not a fan of the term coming out
(00:42):
of the fog and being afraid peoplewon't like us because we're adopted.
Before we get started, I wannapersonally invite you to join our
Patreon adoptee community over onadopteeson.com/community, which helps
support you and also the show tosupport more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommendedresources and as always, links to
(01:05):
everything we'll be talking about todayare on the website, adopteeson.com.
Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome toAdoptees On greiby medina.
Hello greiby.
Hi, how are you?
I'm great.
I'm so glad to finally geta chance to interview you.
(01:25):
I'm happy to be here.
Thank you so much for thinking of me.
I feel like I've docked you a fewtimes, like we've had email exchanges,
so I'm really happy that we'd havean opportunity to finally chat.
Yes.
I'd love it.
If you wouldn't mind, would youshare some of your story with us?
Sure.
I was adopted when I was two anda half years old from Honduras.
(01:48):
I was actually born in San PedroSula, Honduras, and then I was
transferred to Tegucigalpa becausethey deemed me as adoptable because
I was more aligned with white.
I was considered.
Beautiful because I was white,because colorism is a real thing
in Latin America and in Latinidad.
(02:10):
And I actually have learned alot more about my story recently.
I was adopted by a single white motherwho is an educator of deaf education,
and I grew up in Portland, Maine.
I'm an author, I'm a youth advocate,and I live in Spanish Harlem now.
Can you share why you were availablefor adoption at two and a half?
(02:34):
So the story that was told tomy mother, and my mother was, my
adoptive mother, I'll say, was33 when she went to Honduras.
The story was that my birth mother wasvery young and she gave me up, but the
real story that I know now is my birthmother actually went to prison at age 20.
(03:01):
She had me when she was 19.
She went to prison for defendingme because she was pregnant with
me and somebody was trying to stealme when she was pregnant with me.
So she went to prison and then therewas no one to take care of you, so the
government took you in some capacity.
My mother.
(03:22):
Had one of my sisters, we allhave different fathers, right?
When she was 15, so they kicked her out.
She was born in a very small cityand she went north to make money
and try to bring money back home.
And her plan was to probablystay in that bigger city.
She was essentially estranged fromthat family, but she was raised by her
(03:43):
grandmother and she was kicked out asa young person like I'll say primary
school, like young from her mother.
Her mother wasn't interestedin having a child, so all she
really knew was being displaced.
And, all of her rights werestripped from her because she
was a non person essentially.
She was literate.
And when someone is put up for adoption,there's a notice in the newspaper,
(04:08):
but the notice was in a different cityand my mother was sitting in jail.
How is she going to be like,oh, it's actually my child.
So how did you come to know the new story?
Were you an adult already?
Yeah, I was an adult already.
Facebook I have been.
Classic.
Me too.
And literally.
(04:28):
Yeah.
And it's like we have a very, huh.
Complicated relationshipwith Facebook right now.
A lot of us in the world.
And I wanna also say too, partof my story is that I've always
known that I was adopted.
I've always had my paperwork.
I've always known what my name is, andso even when I was a child, like 9, 8,
(04:50):
7, 6, I was looking for my birth familyand my mother was like, go for it.
But we didn't have Facebook back then.
If I was seven and I had Facebook, Iprobably would've found my birth mother,
but I came to know my story becauseI went on like an affinity group for
that small town that she grew up in.
And I posted 'cause I speak Spanish.
(05:12):
And when I say small, like smalland obviously the population
has gotten bigger since then.
So when she grew up in theseventies, everyone knows everyone.
They're like, oh, that thewhite house by the church.
Yes, of course we know them.
So they knew exactly who Iwas talking about and, her,
my aunt, I guess messaged me.
(05:33):
So have you been able to connect anyfurther with family members there?
Yeah, so you know what's interesting isthat, I wouldn't say interesting, but
I was actually literally moving to NewOrleans as this was happening because
I wasn't expecting it to be real.
(05:53):
Do you know what I mean?
I wasn't expecting to actually.
For somebody to be like,oh yes, that's that.
That is I, and so I did.
I connected and they actually didn'tbelieve me that I was who I said I was
because I have the same name spelleddifferently as my younger sister.
(06:13):
My sister, who is so why I'm gonna be 38.
My younger sister, greiby,that spell with Y and she's 25.
Same exact name, middle name, twolittle spelled a little differently.
And she's a character I'll say.
And so they thought that she, we werelike, they were being punked and I looked
like her dear, or she looks like me.
(06:35):
So a lot of it was me trying toconvince them that I was who I was.
And I'm literal, there's moving peoplecoming in and outta my apartment.
And I was like, can we talk later?
And then they werelike, we're your family.
Don't you wanna talk now?
I'm like, sure.
But so we had to put a pin in it.
I think that's such a goodobservation for people, right?
(06:56):
With the reunion, things likeit happens during our real life.
Yeah.
You're moving and all of a suddenthe messages are coming in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did your mom keep your original name then?
Were you named greiby at birth?
No, I wasn't.
I had an Italian name.
A very long hyphenated Italianname, which is, I love that name.
(07:17):
But she actually was going throughHurricane Gabrielle when she went
to Honduras, and that's why she,that's why she named me Gabrielle.
That was my former name.
And she kept my mom's nameAlicia, for my middle name.
So I thought it was beautiful, butwhen I got older and I actually
reclaimed my name like in 2020.
(07:38):
So pretty recently, but I thinkprobably when I was like 16, 17,
18, I told people to call me greiby.
Do you know what I mean?
Like people called me that Ichanged my name together, all
different types of names and thatwas just something that I did.
So your biological family,you were named greiby then.
Correct yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
And now you've renamedyourself that, okay.
(08:00):
Yes.
Yeah.
Oh, that's interesting.
So then your mom chose to nameyour younger sister greiby as well.
Yeah.
And the story with that, by the way,is actually sad, but as a writer, you
kind of transmute sadness into art.
But she knew she was notgoing to see me again.
She got out of prison.
She, again, was not believed.
We have the family curseis not being believed.
(08:22):
She was not believed that I existedbecause they're like, you were,
what do you mean you're pregnant?
I don't see a baby.
And so she named my younger sistergreiby to remember me, 'cause she
knew she would never see me again.
And then she died when I was 12, so shedied at age 33, which is interesting
because that's when my mom adopted me.
Oh, I'm sorry.
(08:43):
Yeah.
She had a very hard life.
Poverty killed my mother.
That's what I say.
Yep.
And that's why you wereavailable for adoption, right?
Exactly.
Poverty.
Yeah.
So have you gone back to Honduras?
I have.
I've gone back three times, at least.
The first time I was volunteering ata nonprofit organization on the coast.
(09:10):
And I had a terrible time actuallybecause a lot of people had different
opinions about why they wanted to bethere, and they didn't really recognize or
appreciate that I was literally Honduran.
And, um, my profound reason for beingthere might be different than theirs.
And so I was only therefor three or four months.
(09:30):
But I was friends with this woman whoowned a bar or a restaurant on the beach
and I just sat there all the, like almostevery day and hung out with her and her
family and had fried fish and chips.
But I've definitely it's interestingthat you ask that question because I
often feel like when I go back, 'causeI've gone to Latin America multiple
(09:53):
times, but I feel like when I go.
I'm not appreciated for, I'm not sayinglike appreciated, appreciate me, but
like I'm not seen as a literal LatinAmerican because I am so Americanized.
And so we have people from Norway,Sweden, whatever, international students
who might be doing missionary work,whatever they're doing, and I speak
(10:16):
fluent English and maybe my Spanishwasn't as good as it is now, and I'm
just this person that is from Maine.
And so it's okay, got it.
So definitely been back and when I wasthere, actually it was really beautiful
because the, that woman that I was justtalking about, her husband was one of
(10:37):
the local taxi drivers and he wantedto help me find my birth family and
get my ID and do these certain things.
But like I was supposed to bevolunteering, like I was not
supposed to be doing these things.
Were you ready to search then?
Absolutely.
Did.
You wanted to?
Okay.
Yeah.
I feel like I have, I have OCD,so there's like always like this
PI and in my brain, like a privateinvestigator in my brain, and I'm very
(11:01):
good at compartmentalizing as well.
So I was like, let's go, let's do it.
Go time.
But at the same time, I'm like,I need to, I, I need to be
at my post I'm volunteering.
So we didn't really get to, that didn'tcome into fruition unfortunately.
And then, I did leave because Ijust, the environment was strange
to me and then all of a suddenI ended up adopting 12 kittens.
(11:21):
Yeah.
So what was it like growing up in Maine?
Maine is beautiful.
Maine in itself as a stateis a beautiful state.
I loved being a kid before I went tokindergarten, before I entered school.
I loved being with my mom, my mom, as achild, and being coddled by my mom and
(11:48):
being safe with my mom, I loved that.
When I got to school and then when I met,started meeting people, school was very
difficult because I had cerebral palsy.
I had surgery when I was fiveor six years old, so I was
literally recovering from surgery.
I was in a wheelchairfor probably eight weeks.
(12:09):
I was in cast, I was in braces.
I was bullied a lot for different,various reasons for being
adopted, for looking different.
Maine right now is probablythe second most, second
whitest state in North America.
Vermont takes the pie for that.
Yep.
And I will say too, that Portland,Maine is contrary to popular belief.
(12:33):
Pretty diverse.
You know the high school that I went to,we spoke over 200 languages because we
do have a lot of immigrants that cometo Maine for various reasons, because
we do have some really great resources.
So you write in your book, and we'll talkabout it a little bit later, but about
this group of kids that come together.
(12:55):
And so I know community andfriendship's really important to you.
Were you able to build that foryourself as a teen or even younger?
Yeah.
Good on, yes.
Yeah.
I definitely, write from a place of thisunmet childhood need, or childhood, I
(13:15):
would even say wound or trauma of notreally finding authentic community,
I. I did find it in a couple offriends, but I don't think I ever had
like a breakfast club like community.
I think that's fantastical and people,if people have that, I hope they do.
That's awesome.
(13:35):
In high school, I think, this isthe funny thing, I played sports
all through from like secondgrade to graduated high school.
I was very good at sports,upper body 'cause I have cp.
Okay.
What did you play?
I played softball, lacrosse,swimming, couldn't do basketball.
I tried.
I was like, I can't run you guys.
(13:56):
And then I did icehockey and field hockey.
So I was always playing sports.
When you're in sports, alot of times the default is.
You're popular and I'mfunny, so I used humor.
I was actually a lot funnierthan I am now, folks.
I'm a little traumatized.
I did have a group of friendsquote you know what I'm saying?
(14:17):
Sure cliquey of people thatlike I could sit at lunch with.
But I didn't really particularlyreally agree with a lot of the things
that they did, and I would oftenbe like somebody that would float
around and just talk to everybody.
So in our previous discussionsand emailing back and forth, you
(14:38):
mentioned to me that you weren't outtathe fog, you were never in a fog.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Are you comfortable sharing about that?
What do you mean by that?
Yeah, I think I was very firm with that.
I was like, I was never in the fog.
I think it's and maybe you cancorrect me if I'm wrong too,
'cause it's a lot of times.
I'm gonna make a comparison, andmaybe this is outlandish, but
(15:01):
like when even when we talk aboutwhite supremacy or we talk about
kinds of cultures of dismantlingthese internalized, very harmful
systems and we're like I'm not that.
I could never be that.
You are that because we all are thatbecause that's what is ingrained
in us and that's cultural and it'scapitalism and it's these things.
(15:22):
When I say I don't believe that Iwas, because I was actively not.
Being that or being in it.
So every day I wasactively not in the fog.
I would like to ask you actually,how would you define the fog as,
because everyone has I'm very Ilike to be precise with language.
(15:43):
Are we using the same shared language?
When we talk about these things, right?
You're a writer and I know it'svery important to you you get the
word, you get right to the words.
So there's a new model now calledthe adoptee consciousness model,
which I like very much, and they talkabout these different touch points.
(16:03):
As we go through adulthood andexamine adoption, there's all of
these things that we may come toor may not, and it's a little bit
different than describing the fog.
So in the fog, I would always talk about,it's like examining what adoption has,
how it has really impacted our lives.
(16:25):
And you are coming into awareness of that.
And so I think the problem a lot ofpeople have with that language is
it's you're either in or you're out.
And that's not really how it is.
Like eight years ago, I would say, oh, I'mout of the fog, and here I am eight years
(16:48):
later being like an activist to help moremothers keep their babies, and how can
we, fully engage in family preservationwork and those kinds of things.
I had no language for that back then.
I knew there was something wrongwith stranger adoption in my case.
(17:09):
I knew that there were a lot of peoplewho felt like actually crazy because
adoption's the best thing ever.
What do you mean you don't feellike you fit in your family?
And so you internally feel likethere's something wrong with you.
But I don't fit here and I'm not grateful.
And so all of those pieces would be.
(17:30):
Quote unquote, coming outta thefog or the adoptee consciousness
model is really interesting.
We'll link to it in the show notes forfolks who wanna have a look at it and
engage with it a little bit more withthe different touch points because it's
much more helpful and not as linear.
Because it's not linear.
(17:50):
And when you were talking aboutthat too, I think in tandem
and also complimentary to that.
I'm thinking of grief andhow grief is just not linear.
You're not
Exactly.
I'm not grieving anymore.
Yeah.
Sometimes we are and sometimes we'renot, and sometimes we think we're not.
And it's just not linear.
And grief looks so different.
For everyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(18:10):
And every day.
Exactly.
Like you could have memories of yourloved one and it brings joy to you
'cause are delighting in some past thing,reliving, and then the next day you're
like, oh my gosh, like you're not here.
Yes.
I could never look at you again.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So it's really about nuance and.
Yeah, I think it's very complex.
(18:31):
So I.
It sounds like to me, I don'twanna put words in your mouth,
do it,
it sounds like to me,
I'd love it
that your mom was really good attalking to you about adoption.
Yes.
Talking to you about being Honduran.
Yes.
And all of those things.
Yes.
And she tried to, and she'd listen.
I was actually the resistant one.
(18:53):
Okay, because she, listen she put me inlanguage school, like Spanish school.
She was like, do youwanna go Spanish school?
I was like, sure.
I quit after two days.
There was a Bolivianfamily that lived near me.
I was embarrassed because I actuallyhad a crush on the older sister.
There were different situations where,and then she was like, I don't wanna
keep putting you in these situations,because I know I'm embarrassing you.
(19:15):
I want you to be ready to connect withLatin American and like back then.
Back then, I'm so old now.
I'm wise.
I'm not old.
It's an age it's a number.
There were not that many,
I think four years ahead of you.
So
we are wise beyond that, no,but like back then I'm growing
up in Portland, Maine, and.
(19:36):
I was born in 1987, so I'm 10.
In 1997, I probably saw two LatinAmerican people in my high school.
That doesn't mean that they didn't existor in my actual class, like not class
one, 200 people in the classes that Ihad, like science, whatever, every day.
And they came fromdifferent neighborhoods.
(19:58):
I grew up in a suburban north Deering.
I wasn't rich, it was just, backthen there was a middle class.
There was like an uppermiddle class thing.
It was weird, but I was not exposedto, it was either an immigrant
population of Latin American folksthat were in downtown Portland.
(20:21):
And that I was not, that, that was15 minutes away from where I lived.
I went down there to have coffeeand go to the movies, but I was
in a different socioeconomicbracket, so I was not exposed.
And then when I did have that oneBolivian family that I talk about in
one of those, in the Catapult article, Ifumbled to the ball, you know what I mean?
(20:41):
Because I was, I personally on a soullevel was not ready to be vulnerable
with them because I was afraid that asif they didn't know that I was adopted.
They did.
They did, but I was afraidthat they wouldn't like me.
Because I was adopted.
I think I'm thinking of, I just had thistherapy session a couple weeks ago, and
(21:05):
that's literally what I started out sayingto the therapist I was working with.
Wow.
Like my first thing was like, I'mafraid you're not gonna like me.
Yeah.
And it's this deep corebelief that a lot of us hold.
I'm afraid you won'tlike me, I'm unlovable.
What's the reason we were separatedfrom our original parents?
There's some, and you can look backnow and be like, she was in prison.
(21:31):
Literally,
it's not right.
But it's,
I wanna say like spiritually gratefulthat I've always felt and known
like I'm very spiritual in thisway, where I'm very connected to.
I've always been veryconnected to my birth mother.
Like really?
Like I knew when she wasno longer in the world.
(21:51):
I really did when I waslike, when I was 12.
It was interesting 'cause my grandmother,whom I loved, my Italian grandmother,
I'm just gonna say Italian grandmother,my aunt, so when my Italian grandmother
died around the same time, I just, beforeeven that phone call happened, I was like.
Grandmother's, our grandmother's dead.
I have always been, because even inthinking of motherhood and I'm not
(22:15):
a mother, I'm not gonna go there.
But even in thinking of like whyisn't this person contacting me?
We have Facebook, we havethis, they're not okay.
If they know that theyhave a kid out there.
So I have always known that there is areason, and by the way, my mom alicia,
she tried to come to America three timesand she was unsuccessful, and half of my
(22:38):
family actually lives in North America,but she was unsuccessful and there's still
a lot that I wanna uncover about her.
I'm still studying and doinga lot of things in here, but
like it's, I still feel like.
She deserves justice.
So do you feel like there was apoint in your time where you felt,
(23:04):
okay, now I feel Honduran versusthe Americanized version of you?
Or do you still feel justlike a mix of identities?
And you were talking about the firsttime you went to Honduras and people
were like, we, you're not from here.
(23:26):
How about the third time?
Did you ever feel like you belongedthere or you were from there?
Oh, listen, I havedefinitely felt like that.
Okay.
Different things and different, and Ithink it's Honduran people and not that
you're saying this right, but it dependson who I meet and where I am locally.
In the physicality of Honduras.
Like I could be in Tegucigalpa andthey're like, oh, I totally get it.
(23:48):
For sure.
'cause there could be internationalstudents that are coming back and visiting
family and they're like, yeah, I get it.
We're third culture kids, or whateverit is at this end of the day.
It's what they're projecting onto me.
And I've literally have always,from how as long as I can remember,
and I have a very good memory.
I like to remind people I've beenproud of who I am, where I come from,
(24:11):
and the things that I don't knowabout myself since kindergarten, since
first grade, since I did my star ofthe week and, begged them to let me
go first and talk about Honduras.
You know what I mean?
But then I was shut down and.
I'm not gonna mention her name'cause she's still around and she
raises her hand and she says, yeah,that's nice, but where's your dad?
Why don't you have a dad?
(24:32):
And so that's when I stoppedsharing because I'm telling you
something I'm very proud of.
And you care about, like there area lot of people that don't have
dads here and that aren't adopted.
Why do you care so much?
Yeah.
So yeah.
Kids are brutal.
So, brutal.
Yeah.
Kids can be so brutal.
So brutal.
But you know what?
I still like kids and I write for kids.
(24:53):
I like their, they're honest.
You don't have to be, youdon't have to be mean.
I like their honesty though.
Yeah.
I was gonna say they tell it like itis, but they don't always need to.
I'm thinking of your Honduranmother and the story you said about.
They were trying to steal youbefore you were even here and just
(25:14):
the child trafficking of it all.
The system is just so broken.
And our society sees opportunities forswooping in and saving, quote unquote.
Instead of really what 's broken ishelping kids stay with their families.
(25:35):
Put the money into thefamilies that are struggling.
Yeah, and just to clarify too, shewas working as a live-in like cleaning
person, so it was actually them.
That was like, so it's
That we're gonna try and steal you.
Because they thought Yeah,because she was very beautiful.
Like literally, right?
So they're like, this isgoing to be a beautiful baby.
We own you.
(25:55):
Literally we feel like we own you.
And yeah, it's very traumatic and it'sgood thing I can compartmentalize, no
woman, no person deserves to be separatedfrom their loved one in any way like that.
Obviously and in any way periodto their biological loved one.
Okay.
Before we do recommended resources,is there anything I missed
(26:19):
asking you about that you reallywanna mention or talk about?
Listen, I'm really happythat you have this podcast.
Honestly, I have known aboutthis podcast forever and when I
say forever, eight years plus.
And so I really wantedto thank you for that.
Like big props.
It's not an easy thing to do.
Big production.
Awesome.
(26:40):
I wanted to just shout youout and thank you again.
Aw, thanks.
greiby.
That's so kind of you.
Yeah I found your book.
I don't even remember when,it was, when it was first out.
The One Who Loves You the Most, wouldyou, this is YA or is it middle grade?
That's so funny you said that,like that's what people say.
It's actually technically middle grade.
(27:02):
Okay.
I was wondering about that.
Yeah, because middle grade'seight years old to like 12,
okay,
so they're, yeah.
Yeah.
So I read it then, and this time whenI reread it, I listened on audio.
Oh, cool.
And it was so lovely.
I really enjoyed listening toit, and I thought that the person
(27:23):
who read it did a great job.
It's a really cool picture ofwhat community could look like for
someone who is searching for that.
I feel like you really did put abig part of your story in here,
and I'm thinking of your mom inparticular, the mother character.
(27:43):
She's just, as you described,your mom to us today.
And yeah, it's just really
thank you.
It's a beautiful story.
We talked about this beforeabout representation.
We haven't talked about it here.
I'm sorry.
A previous conversation I hadwith greiby for listeners,
' cause I'm a yapper, I don't stop talking.
Yes, we did talk.
We probably have, yes.
(28:03):
I love that you wrote a book that maybeyou needed when you were in school, so
Absolutely.
I think absolutely.
I did.
Yeah.
And I hope that young peoplecontinue to read my book.
Teachers, if you're listening, librarians.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Okay, so we'll make sure tolink to it in the show notes.
(28:26):
And I love adopteerepresentation also in books.
And that's in there too.
Yeah.
And I have, can I ask you a question?
Do you feel like it is, obviously I'man adopted person that wrote it, but
do you glean from the book that is anadopt, it's like about adoption too,
because there's so many different themes.
I don't want that to get lost.
Oh, definitely.
(28:46):
Oh, definitely.
I think the protagonist isreally searching for who am I?
What's my identity?
And so I felt so deeply for thembecause not only as an adoptee, you're
(29:08):
looking for your identity in this worldand you've got all the layers here.
Yeah, it's complicated, but that's,
it's complicated.
That's what our lives are, right?
It's complicated.
Yeah.
Okay.
So greiby, we are gonna order your book,but what do you wanna recommend to us?
Honestly, I just want people to, ifthey have an interest, to tap into that
(29:31):
interest and to keep learning and growingand failing and being okay to fail.
Because when we learn from our failures.
We become better people andthat makes the world better.
Do you wanna share aboutAdoptees of South America?
Oh, absolutely.
I actually stumbled across them.
I. A few years or maybe during Covid,COVID was a time when we were online.
(29:55):
I have chatted with them online afew times and they're just wonderful.
They have, they do events.
They have a wonderful communityfrom literally adoptees from
South America and Central America,and they're lovely people.
I believe one of thefounders is a social worker.
They are on Instagram.
Adoptees of South America.
(30:15):
They also have a website and a linktree that is in their Instagram as
well, and you can find out more there.
Okay.
We'll make sure to link to that.
Yeah.
I think especially for adoptees, likewhen you're looking for community and
whatever kind of supports you need, ifyou're searching or in reunion or you're
trying to navigate intercountry searching,like all of those kind of things.
(30:38):
It's really cool to connect withadoptees who are adopted from the
same country you are, or similar.
Yeah.
Region.
Yeah.
And also I'll say just as a sidebar aslike a note about that is look at who
they follow and who likes their posts.
Because a lot of times thereare a lot of different new
collectives, I'll say organizationsfor adoptees and by adoptees.
(31:00):
And maybe that's a community for you too.
Definitely.
Thank you so much fortalking with me greiby.
Such an honor.
And I don't, I won't ask wherepeople can connect with you
online since you're offline.
I'm so mysterious.
You're mysterious.
But we will link to your book.
(31:20):
And a couple of the articlesthat you've written so people
can read your work there.
Cool.
Thank you.
I know I've said this before, but I justwanna remind y'all if you are hoping to
support adoptee authors and your book buylist is getting extensive and too many for
(31:41):
on your TBR pile, another great way youcan support adoptee authors is requesting
their books from your local library.
Often libraries will have a suggestwe buy this book page and my, my local
library, I think you can suggest up tofive books a month and you can write
(32:02):
in the name an author of the book.
You can tell them why you want themto purchase it, and often they will.
And so it's a great way to supportadoptee authors and have more people
have access to their work in the world.
So I love doing that for adoptee authors.
(32:24):
Anyway thank you so much for listening.
Let's talk again soon.
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