October 10, 2025 • 46 mins
309 | Megan Hunter, MBA
It’s such an honour to bring you today’s guest, Megan Hunter, MBA. Megan is known as the Conflict Influencer, and is the co-founder of the High Conflict Institute. We get to know Megan’s personal story today, including her reunion story. Megan shares about how she first connected with her birthmother, about a gut-wrenching experience with her biological father that resurfaced an adoptee wound, and she offers us advice in navigating new reunion relationships, including both the complex and the beautiful sides.
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Episode Transcript
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Haley Radke (00:00):
This podcast is for educational and
entertainment purposes only.
Nothing stated on it either by its hostsor any guests, is to be construed as
psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to adopteeson the podcast where adoptees
(00:20):
discuss the adoption experience.
I'm Haley Radke.
It is such an honor to bringyou today's guest, Megan Hunter.
Megan is known as the conflictinfluencer and is the co-founder
of the High Conflict Institute.
We get to know Megan's personalstory today, including her reunion.
(00:42):
Megan shares about how she first connectedwith her birth mother about a gut
wrenching experience with her biologicalfather that resurfaced an adoptee wound,
and she offers us advice in navigatingnew reunion relationships, including
both the complex and the beautiful sides.
Before we get started, I wannapersonally invite you to join our
(01:04):
Patreon adoptee community today overon adopteeson.com/community, which
helps support you and also the show tosupport more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommendedresources and as always, links to
everything we'll be talking about todayare on the website, adopteeson.com.
Let's listen in.
(01:27):
I'm so pleased to welcome toAdoptees On, Megan Hunter.
Hi, Megan.
Megan Hunter, MBA (01:32):
Hello.
Hi, Haley.
Hi everyone.
Thanks for having me.
Haley Radke (01:36):
What an honor to talk to you.
I'd love it if you wouldstart the way we normally do.
Would you share someof your story with us?
Megan Hunter, MBA (01:43):
Adoptee story business.
I'm usually doing businesspodcasts, so, or conflict podcasts.
So that's what I'm used to talking about.
Haley Radke (01:50):
I know we're going to the personal today.
How about that?
Megan Hunter, MBA (01:53):
Not the personal side.
Alright, we can do that.
I was adopted at the age of two months.
So my biological parents are, they were,you know, last year of high school,
senior year, and the relationship didn'tlast, and I was born in September.
So what would've been their.
I guess their freshman year of college.
(02:15):
So they chose to place me for adoptionand I guess I went to a foster
home for a couple of months and Iwas told it was a wonderful one.
And then I was adopted by somereally wonderful people in Nebraska.
So I grew up on a farm.
And had two, I had an older sister whowas my parent, my adoptive parent's,
(02:36):
natural child, and then they'd losttwo children before she was born.
Very tra you know, sadlywith some heart problems.
So they had her, she also had theheart problems, but she survived it.
And at that point, I think they were like.
This is too painful totry to have more children.
You know, genetically, there's obviouslysomething wrong, but they wanted more
(02:59):
kids, so they adopted a boy and thentwo years later adopted another boy,
and then two years later adopted me.
So I'm the youngest of four and grewup my whole life knowing I was adopted,
which I'm so grateful for because I knowa few people who didn't know for a long
(03:20):
time, and that's just been a painfuljourney for them, or painful new piece
of news too, to absorb and assimilate.
So yeah, I was grateful for that.
And I'm sure there'll be lots of, lotsof questions about the whole, all of it.
But I guess the, the fast forwardpart is in my twenties, I was about
24 or 25 when I was flipping throughtelevision stations and I just, just
(03:46):
flipping through, you know how you, soyou're like on something for two seconds
before you flip to the next thing.
At least back in the old days.
I don't even think we do that anymore.
Haley Radke (03:53):
No.
You just like, look up what youwanna watch and there it is.
Right.
Megan Hunter, MBA (03:56):
I just realized that.
Yeah.
Right.
Haley Radke (03:59):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (03:59):
We used to do that.
I, I mean, like I grew up whenwe didn't even have remotes so
ancient, but, so I'm flipping through.
See, I, I lived in Nebraska, but we gotColorado news stations and networks and
things, and there was a Colorado news, aTV sh, you know, news show on, and I just
caught in those two seconds adoptees.
(04:20):
So I went back to that stationand they had this story about
Colorado had just opened their birthrecords to adoptees for six months.
You had a window.
And so I followed up, I'll followedthrough and I think I paid $125 or
something very, very nominal for.
They assigned me to a intermediary whohad access then to whatever records were
(04:47):
available, and she tracked down my birthgrand maternal grandmother and that led
her to my biological mom, birth mother.
I told her, you know, like I didn'thave any expectations of ever,
ever meeting anyone, but I, I wasinterested in medical information.
(05:13):
I mean, I was honest and authenticabout that, but, so she did write me a
letter back and gave me, you know, somemedical information, but there were no
names or any identifying informationincluded, and I didn't expect it.
I didn't give her mine.
And then about three months later,after a couple of letters, maybe the
intermediary called and said, yourbirth mother would like to talk to you.
(05:35):
So, I don't know, within a day or twowe were on the phone and this thing
I'd been, you know, thinking aboutfor 25 years was suddenly happening.
I had this, this, the, the dream,the fantasy, you know, that we all
create in our head about who they areand what they look like and all that.
Well, I was born in the Vietnam War era.
I knew my bio father had goneinto the military, so I, in
(06:00):
my fantasy mind, he was dead.
I just thought, you know, Vietnam.
So that was my story.
Well, it turns out he wasvery much alive and still is.
So, so I got to, I got to meet him first,and he didn't have any other children.
I was it.
And then I met my birth mother.
(06:21):
Probably sometime in the nextsix months or so, and she had
four kids that were born afterme and three daughters and a son.
So I've gotten to know all themand then her husband and you
know, now it's been over 25 years.
So I have some experience now.
Haley Radke (06:39):
You do.
You so do.
And because you're an expertin conflict resolution, you
have all these skills for sure.
Now that would help I'm sure,in difficult reunion situations.
How about when you were 25, 26, 27and those difficult things come up?
(06:59):
Can you remember anything thatwas particularly challenging?
Megan Hunter, MBA (07:03):
At the beginning, I was just in my twenties.
I think I was just full of lifeand exuberant and it was like,
oh, this is great, you know?
So I just kind of accepted.
I was very accepting ofeveryone and I wasn't cautious.
At all.
I just went full in like,oh, this is so exciting.
And so there wasn't conflict inthe beginning, I would say took
(07:23):
about a decade for the skeletonsto come outta the closet.
You know, it was kind of like we'reall putting our, our best foot
forward, you know, in our shiny faces.
And as we all know, in everyfamily there's some skeletons
somewhere and some conflict.
So when those things came up, I didn'tnecessarily know how to handle them.
(07:46):
Well, and I, I wouldn't say I was in theconflict, but I just had funny feelings.
Haley Radke (07:53):
Hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (07:54):
So on my, my bio dad side there was, there was no conflict
me with anyone, but he and his siblingshad tons of conflict, and so I could
step back and watch this from afarand it's like, yeah, this is great.
I don't have to be in it.
Birth mother's side of the family,you know, they had their dynamics,
(08:15):
their sibling histories and all ofthat, and again, I wasn't part of it.
So when they had big conflict,I was still this outsider.
Now in my adoptive family, loadsof conflict, high conflict.
So I, I finally reached a pointwhere I realized that when you
come from an adoptive place and youknow, all these families, plus I'd
(08:39):
been married, had that family, gotdivorced, got remarried have family.
You have a lot of family now, andI realized that with every family
comes that some of those skeletons,some of that conflict history, you
know, drama and it can be too much.
(08:59):
I felt overwhelmed because therewas too much drama in many of
the families, most of them.
So I think as an adoptee, thatwas really challenging for me.
Even though I could step back fromsome of it, it still affected me.
So if you want me to focus on.
A back breaker of a conflict.
(09:21):
I can do that.
Haley Radke (09:24):
Well, as you were talking, I was thinking like sometimes
we are the skeletons in the closetwhen we come back and find, right?
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:32):
Yeah.
Haley Radke (09:32):
And so
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:32):
I was.
Haley Radke (09:33):
Yes.
Did your siblings know aboutyou on your maternal side?
No.
So they have to just, momhas to share that secret.
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:42):
Yep.
She'd never shared with anyone.
Except her mother.
Haley Radke (09:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That can be so difficult in relationship.
Just that.
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:51):
Yeah.
And she's a very private person and I'ma talker, you know, and I'm exuberant
and she's very private and quiet.
So that was, was difficult, but itwas so kind that she did share this
information with her family and theyaccepted me completely open armed.
Haley Radke (10:09):
Hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (10:10):
And I have wonderful relationships with a couple of my
sisters, and there's just, that'sbeen just a highlight in my life.
Haley Radke (10:17):
Oh, I'm so glad for you, Megan.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, you, you, you gottashare the doozy because, you
know, we're all waiting to hear.
You're like, Haley, you have to ask that.
I will, I will.
Megan Hunter, MBA (10:29):
A little, little teaser there.
Yeah, and I, I, I'm willing toshare this because I think as
adoptees we do deal with somethingdifferent than non- adoptees and I,
I think it's at a cellular level.
So on my birth father's side, like Isaid, there was a lot of conflict in that
family, and if they would get together fora gathering, it would last a day or two.
(10:52):
And then like there's a blow up and thenthey're making booking tickets to go fly
home immediately and that kind of thing.
I would go visit my paternal grandmother.
And I realized I could handle about12 hours before I felt exhausted
and kind of overwhelmed and likeneeded to get outta there, right?
(11:13):
So you know I had probably known him 15years or so, and my bio dad called me, he
lived several states away, and he said,you know, for my mom's 80th birthday,
I'm gonna fly to where she lives.
Surprise her and tell herwe're gonna hop in her car and
we're gonna drive to see you.
And stay with you for 10 days.
(11:34):
Exactly.
That must have been the look on my face.
I'm like, okay, God, I cando anything for 10 days.
Right.
I can be charitable, I can be generous.
I have a big house.
We can, I can make this work.
I'll just do it.
Right.
So it, you know, we're, eh,first three days are okay.
(11:54):
And then it just, things kind ofstarted feeling weird and like
they'd kind of disappear and wouldn'tsay they were going anywhere and
they'd be gone for hours and hours.
It was just, I don't know,just no communication.
And I would start to get that feelingagain, of just being like, run down and at
the edge of falling apart, but I'm strong.
(12:14):
I got this, I can do this.
So we were going to have a wehosted in our home like a, a weekly
like marriage Bible study formarried couples on Monday nights.
So I told my bio dad and hismom about this and I said,
look, you don't have to come.
I'm not trying to proselytize, butit's something we do in our home.
If you'd like to come, you're welcome.
(12:36):
If not, no problem.
She said, no thanks.
He said, yeah, pleasecome get me in my room.
So I went and got him in his room.
When it was time we walkeddown the hall together.
And right before we got to the livingroom, he said I gotta get something.
I'll be right back.
So I thought, well, I mustneed his glasses or something.
I don't know.
Never came back.
(12:58):
Never did come back.
So afterwards, I sent myson down to the bedroom.
So what, you know, to find him.
And he's like, he's not there.
He's not in the backyard,he is not in the front yard.
He's gone.
He's just not there.
Odd, right.
We looked, we kind ofwaited, just wasn't there.
So the next morning I just woke up at 5:30in the morning, and which isn't normal.
(13:23):
I usually, it's like 6:30 or seven.
And I immediately had thisthought, they're gone.
I woke up my husband and Isaid, honey, they're gone.
What are you talking about?
They're, they're gone.
I know they're gone.
No, they're supposed to be hereanother three or four days.
They're gone.
I got my robe.
Walked down the hall, they were gone.
(13:44):
And I think as an adoptee that rippedthe rug right out from under me.
You know, there's probably a lot of,a lot of variables there, but you
know, in birth family in all of this.
But I guess I didn't knowwhat was gonna happen.
So it wasn't necessarily like a bigconflict, it was just they were gone.
(14:05):
So my husband's said,let's, go to breakfast.
So we went to this restaurantand we sat on the patio for
probably three or four hours.
And I had, which from the outsideprobably looked like a nervous breakdown.
Haley Radke (14:18):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (14:18):
Or a psychotic break.
I would just sob and weep from mycore over this, probably abandonment.
Haley Radke (14:28):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (14:28):
Right.
Even though I didn't evenlike this guy that much, I
didn't like his mom that much.
Why is it affecting me so deeply?
I would just, I would weep fromthe, I mean, guttural, ugh.
It was horrible.
And then that, you know, I'dgo for a while and then I'd
start laughing hysterically.
So like I said, crazy lady.
But that was my reality that morning.
(14:50):
And I think looking back, you know,it's been 15 years better ago now,
and, and I realize that my belief is insome of us, based on our temperament,
our DNA, our life experiences andall of that, our biological family,
our resilience, you can have that rugripped from under you and not, not
(15:11):
real, just you have no idea its coming.
You don't know it's there that you canget hurt deeply, even by people you don't
feel like you're even that close to.
So that's my big conflict story.
Not that I, I mean, it, it just endedwith me setting limits when, when they
called that night because word gotaround quickly to a cousin who called
(15:33):
an aunt, who called him on the road.
So he called me and I was of courseupset and I, I just said, look, I never
wanna see your mother again, and I'll letyou know when I'm ready to talk to you.
And I must have soundedpretty fierce what he heard.
It was, I'll never wannatalk to either of you again.
Haley Radke (15:51):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (15:53):
Right.
So we have healed things sincethen, but I'm pretty cautious.
Then fast forward to about sixyears, five years ago, my little
grandson's first birthday party.
Now I've let these folksback in my life again.
He and his wife, they wanna come out formy first grandchild's first birthday.
(16:14):
Great.
Come on out and we just finished thedinner and you know, I'm an excited
Nana, I love my little grandbaby andits first birthday and oh, the cake and
the good to the presents and all that.
So we'd finish the dinner, we'resitting at the table and just
waiting to, you know, get thetable cleared and we're gonna have
(16:36):
the cake and presents and things.
And he looked at me, he said, I justwanted to let you know I went to our
lawyer and took you out of our will.
Haley Radke (16:45):
At the party, he said this to you?
Megan Hunter, MBA (16:47):
Mm-hmm.
Now, as an adoptee, I neverhad an expectation of being in
the will in the first place.
Haley Radke (16:55):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (16:57):
25, 30 years ago, he, out of the blue,
told me he put me in his will.
Okay, great.
Thank you.
So now the expectation's there.
You don't even think about itagain, you've forgotten about it
until someone, the person who gavelife to you tells you, lemme rip
that rug out from under you again.
(17:19):
So there we were again, and Iwas much stronger at by that
point and had been in therapy.
But I still think there's so muchabout being adopted that at least
for me is at a cellular level.
Haley Radke (17:33):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (17:34):
I don't know.
Haley Radke (17:35):
How long did it take you from your setting the limit
after that first disappearingact to engaging with him again?
Megan Hunter, MBA (17:48):
Mm, it might've been over five years.
Haley Radke (17:51):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (17:52):
Yeah.
I was just, I was just, I'venever had anything like that.
Just, I just, I could feel it in my cells.
That's all.
That's the only way I knowhow to, to, to describe it.
Haley Radke (18:03):
Well in this behavior, I'm telling you, something inflammatory at
a public celebratory occasion is like,this person just really wants a scene
or something like that is so wild.
What a choice.
Megan Hunter, MBA (18:19):
Yeah, it's like just no really low social skills, I think.
And you know, I, I don't thinkthere was bad intent by it.
It was just, you know, the explanationthe next day was you know, your husband
supports you and you have your own companyand so you don't need anything from us.
Well, that's true.
However.
(18:41):
The underlying part ofthis is the human part.
Yeah.
You know?
Haley Radke (18:46):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (18:46):
And maybe in a different setting,
said in a different way.
Like, hey we've had this conversationand here's what we decided to do.
We just wanted to let you know.
So that was my experience.
And after then, after that.
Like he, the look on my facemust not have looked great.
He saw that, noticed it, blamedhis wife for everything, and
(19:09):
then took off out of the house.
Like I told you, conflict, they run.
Well, they rode with us in ourcar, so we had to come back
and the next day we dropped 'em attheir condo and the next day they,
they said, hey, we we're, we'renot feeling well today, you know?
And then they contactedme the following day.
I had lunch with them, brought my daughteralong who they hadn't seen yet, and
(19:32):
I just kept it surface and pleasant.
And when he went to the bathroomat the restaurant, his wife looked
at me and said, are we okay now?
And I said, no.
What I've learned from this isyou can have too much family.
Haley Radke (19:49):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (19:50):
Which probably wasn't the nicest thing to say, but it's the
only thing I could think in that moment.
Haley Radke (19:54):
Mm-hmm.
That's so real though.
Megan Hunter, MBA (19:57):
Yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot to carry.
Haley Radke (20:01):
So a lot of people, we, we even did a whole series on adoptee
estrangement, and so a lot of peopleare choosing to go this route now.
And I know with your expertise,like you help people navigate
really challenging circumstances andespecially with people who are high
conflict, really difficult people.
(20:22):
And so do you have a, a line or, orthings that you tell people about, like,
listen, if you see this, we really gotta.
Yes.
Safer to break ties, or if thesethings are happening, I could
help you work through that.
Like, do you have somethinglike that that you could share?
Megan Hunter, MBA (20:43):
Yeah, we do.
I mean, it's, we do work with a lotof people in really tricky situations,
whether it's adoptee, I mean, it's.
Infrequently adoption related, but it's,you know, high conflict, which is a, a
kind of a pattern of an, an individualwith a pattern of doing a lot of blaming
and having, you know, really extremebehaviors, unmanaged emotions, and
(21:07):
very all or nothing in their thinking.
And it's just kind of how they approachlife kind of unconsciously, like an
operating system so they can wreak havocon their close relationships and even
relationships at work, but especiallyin intimate relationships and parenting
and families, siblings, all of that.
So the people that come to us areusually often in times in despair.
(21:30):
Like, I'm in a deep dark holeand I don't know what to do.
I don't know how to get out.
Everything I do is a misstep.
I'm wrong.
I'm blamed, I'm scared, I'm frustrated.
I'm exhausted by the chaos.
So what we help people do is justunderstand, first of all what high
conflict looks like and then they startto get this first like kind of brick in
(21:53):
the foundation of, okay, I'm not crazy.
And then it's kind of understandingwhat's happening with this other person
and accepting that this is who they areand I'm not gonna be able to change it.
Therefore I have tochange how I approach it.
So we do have, you know, communicationskills we teach, which is, you know, using
(22:16):
what we call EAR statements when they'reescalating, complaining, blaming, give
them something a little with a littleempathy, attention, respect, little EAR.
And it, it helps really connect with thereactive part of the brain and helps them
kind of helps their brain get regulatedmore, gives them what they need before
you have a conversation or get to whatyou need to, like, if you have to have
(22:40):
a difficult conversation, you're gonnasprinkle a little EAR in it whenever the
other person's upset, escalating, blaming,going all or nothing or any of that.
And then we have other little techniques.
We have writing techniques and thingstoo, but a big part of this is setting
limits and with high conflict people,you really have to have this balance
(23:01):
of, of giving them empathy or respect.
Some need respect more than empathy 'causethey'll manipulate you with your empathy.
And then a balance with setting limits,they don't stop themselves and so you
kind of have to give the gift of settinglimits and what that really means bottom
line is I'm going to do what I need to do.
(23:24):
Because if you think about it,we're typically doing what the
other person wants us to do andwe're afraid to assert what we want.
But setting limits, having boundariesis doing or saying what I'm going to do,
I'm going to leave this room now if youdon't stop talking to me in that way.
And if they continue,I'm leaving the room now.
(23:47):
So there's those, little, you know,things that happen in conversations,
but then we go to the bigger picture ofmaking decisions about that relationship.
And that's one that takes some time.
And you know, in these tricky reuniontype situations, you're blending
different cultures basically onan intimate, most intimate level.
(24:09):
And sometimes gonnawork great as you know.
And other times it's going to be trickyand sometimes you're, oftentimes there's
gonna be a, a pretty negative situationthat you find yourself walking into.
So, you know, I like to say, remaincautious for a year at least.
(24:30):
Tread lightly.
Be observant.
Look for the red flags.
Don't make any promises.
Don't get too close, too quickly.
Stay as arms length as possiblefor the first year or so, and then
you can make decisions from there.
'cause I don't know you today, but I will.
(24:52):
I will know you and I'mgonna know that you're okay.
Healthy enough to be in a relationshipwith or not, or somewhere in between.
And that's how far orclose I'm gonna have you.
Haley Radke (25:06):
That's really good advice.
So difficult to follow through in.
Especially for
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:13):
Yes ma'am,
Haley Radke (25:14):
you're meeting your birth mother for the first time.
Your fa like, it's the draw, thelure of like finally getting to
know someone you dreamed about forand had all these stories about.
It's so difficult.
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:30):
Yeah,
Haley Radke (25:31):
and I really encourage people to have a, a competent therapist to walk.
Them through this time tohelp press the brakes for us.
'cause we can't, it's,it's really difficult.
I was gonna say, we can't do it.
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:43):
Yeah.
Haley Radke (25:43):
I mean, we could, but it's hard.
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:45):
Yeah, it's hard.
I like, listen, I'm old now.
I'm a grandma, right.
So I have a lot more experienceand wisdom and missteps along.
Haley Radke (25:53):
You sure look old
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:54):
in my 20.
Haley Radke (25:54):
Just for people who can't see you, like.
Megan Hunter, MBA (26:00):
Filters help,
trying to stay looking young.
But, and the good thing is myvoice sounds young, which is nice.
So the people that can't seeme think I'm really young.
But when I was in my twenties, whenI met everyone, you know, I was just,
I, I didn't have any of these skills.
I didn't know, I was just happy.
Let's, you know, ah, it's gonna be great.
Haley Radke (26:18):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (26:19):
It's like a Odie in Garfield, just ha ha ha.
So it's a, it's a journey.
Haley Radke (26:26):
Well, and I think you kind of alluded to this, but
this deep-seated fear of like a reabandonment, I think is in a lot of us.
And so we will say yes to a 10 dayvisit, even though, or like really,
right, we'll say boundary crossings allover the place just to keep the peace.
(26:49):
And, and that that comes at our costs.
Like it's, you know, and so I think with,you know, lots of therapy and maturity
can come, the ability to set those limits,like you were saying, but it's hard won.
Megan Hunter, MBA (27:04):
Yeah, it is.
And, and you do, I mean, I'm reallyglad you, know, say out loud, get some
competent help to go through this.
I really didn't have any, I just.
Just was fumbling along.
And then over the years, you know, sincethen, finding lots of issues within
(27:24):
my adoptive family too, and havingthat family cut me outta their will.
So kinda, I know, I don't know, toomany people have been cut outta the
will twice for two different families.
But here I am.
Haley Radke (27:38):
You're just too successful.
Like what?
Megan Hunter, MBA (27:42):
In a way which does, you know, not to be, you know,
narcissistic or conceited or anything,but I think there's some, issues of
that in one family, not so much inthe other and none in the other, but.
Yeah, you have to, you just, you needhelp 'cause you have to, it's, these are
really challenging, difficult situationsthat can take a toll on your self-esteem.
(28:05):
And you can really takesome, some big hits.
And there are things I just didn'tunderstand, like why am I looking like a
psychotic person on the patio at Gooding?
You know, back and forth andswinging all over the place.
And, you know, and I, I've been totherapy and, you know, I help a lot
(28:26):
of other people, but at, at the sametime, I was experiencing this myself
and I couldn't get a grip on it.
I just couldn't understand it.
So I think that for me at least, thatseemed like that comes from the deep down
adoption stuff, is there are things we aredoing ourselves, we just can't understand.
Haley Radke (28:48):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (28:49):
Why am I feeling this way?
Why am I doing this?
Why?
So for me, it finally kind of cametogether when, you know, I had to
make some tough decisions in my lifeabout my adoptive family and just some
really heavily unhealthy things there.
And it was okay for about threedays after I made my decision.
(29:10):
Tough.
I'm strong.
I've got a great husband.
I have great kids, all this.
And day three, I was like, wake up,woke up and I always felt like I was
falling apart, like I felt a littlecrumbly and I called my husband
at his office about 10 o'clock.
I said, I've never nothad a family before.
I don't know how to do this.
I don't know if I can do this.
(29:32):
He hops in his car, drove home fromhis office, 30 minutes, sat me down at
the table, my calm, cool, collective,super sweet husband, and he looked
at me and he said, don't ever againlet anyone hold your self-esteem,
value, or happiness in their hands.
That was it.
I was over it.
(29:52):
I was fine, and I've been fine ever since.
It's been years.
There's something in that that I guess.
I don't know if it's just mytemperament that I didn't have that
strong self-esteem or know who Iwas or was adoption part of it.
I don't know, but it surehelped with all of it.
Haley Radke (30:10):
Hmm.
Thanks for sharing that.
I don't know if you're comfortable talkingabout this, but I know your a mom and
you have a big family, extra, extra stepkids now, and you've got, you know, lots
of people to love who all are influencedwhen we're talking about reunion, right?
It's,
Megan Hunter, MBA (30:29):
yeah.
Haley Radke (30:29):
Trickles down.
So in the difficult times, how did youtalk about these things with your kids,
you know 'cause I'm estranged from myadoptive parents also and it's, rare,
but every once in a while, one of mychildren will be like, ask about the
grandparents they barely remember anymore'cause it's been a number of years.
(30:51):
Right.
And so having those conversationswith them and also trying to make
sure they know I'm not gonna goanywhere, you know, like I'm here.
Megan Hunter, MBA (31:01):
True.
Haley Radke (31:02):
And also they know their mom is adopted and
I was separated from my parent.
Right.
So.
So it's really complex to havethese conversations with our
children at whatever age orstage it's sort of happening.
Do you remember havinganything like that with yours?
Megan Hunter, MBA (31:18):
Probably not in such a thoughtful way as
you've just said it, I think.
Honesty is always a great policy.
And I think that came from my parentsalways telling me I was adopted.
So that's just kindacarried through my life.
I think being authentic can't hurt.
So I think if you've raisedyour children with that secure
attachment, that's the foundation.
(31:40):
And then you can be honest and, andyou know, depending on their age.
But just asking them, you know, whenmommy, if something came up and you
say, you know, if when mommy goesto the store, does Mom come back?
Yep.
Well, I'm always gonna come back for you.
I'm always here.
You know?
So I think it's just repetitiveinformation like that and action, and it
(32:03):
can be words or it can be your actions.
Right.
It's just, it's just being there.
So did I have that conversation?
Hmm.
Not so much.
I would probably whined and complainedit too much, but they were older.
Haley Radke (32:16):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (32:16):
You know, but even things that I probably took
missteps or screwed up with my kids,I've been able to kind of repair
that, you know, in adult life.
And I'm just very vulnerable andtransparent with them and they
experience changes that I'm goingthrough that are pos, you know.
All changes, I guess.
(32:37):
But I'm always working toward positivegrowth and development and they feel that.
Haley Radke (32:43):
I bet.
Megan Hunter, MBA (32:44):
And now they're pretty healthy for the most part.
And they make decisionsabout people in their lives.
They're very supportive of me.
I've been very much, don'tbe a take sides person.
If you wanna have a relationship withany of the people that I don't have a
relationship with, that's your choice.
(33:06):
I will respect that andsupport whatever you decide.
If something becomes unhealthy andI see it, I might bring it up to
you, but it's gonna be up to you.
It's your choice.
And I think through that, that's taughtthem to make their own choices and they
are healthy choices because of that.
Haley Radke (33:23):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (33:24):
The bad part of it, the negative or the negative side
I've seen is that when I kind of dida walk away from my adoptive family.
Then one of my children kind ofwanted to distance himself from
his brother, my other child.
And I, you know, I keepsaying, don't do that.
(33:45):
You can't do that.
We gotta keep our family together, wegotta keep ourselves, you know, and
his comment was, well mom, you know,look, you walked away from your family.
So kinda have to weigh those things.
And role modeling is really important.
And I think for me at least, it wastrying to avoid being all or nothing and,
(34:08):
and saying, look, I'm putting a pause.
I've walked away, but it's a pause.
It may change in a couple of years.
I don't know yet, but I'mgonna do the right thing.
I'm taking right steps, and if Ilearned I've taken a wrong step, I'll
try to make a right one the next time.
If this relationship is meantto heal, I'm open to that.
So I think it's justfiguring out as you call.
Haley Radke (34:31):
Yes.
Okay.
Well said.
Thank you.
Is there anything else that I, I knowyou've sort of dipped your toe in with
the adoptee community or with the NPEcommunity, I know you've gone even
presented at one of the conferences.
And is there anything that you seein adoptees that, especially related
(34:55):
to your expertise in conflict that weshould learn about more or advice for us?
Anything like that?
Megan Hunter, MBA (35:01):
Well, first of all, I was really surprised at the
first conference to see that it was,there's so many, and it was, you know.
In the old days it was just adoptees.
Haley Radke (35:12):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (35:13):
Now it's all these other non-parent event,
I don't know, what are they?
Embryo donors and allthis, all that other stuff.
And now
Haley Radke (35:20):
This is the Untangling Our Roots conference that we're talking about.
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (35:23):
Yeah.
And then people who, you know, wereone of 60 children from a sperm donor
and just, it's grown so much andthere's, you see the same desires in
no matter what circumstances you camefrom and the people I've talked to
that have like just found out, let'ssay they're my age and they found,
find out dad's not my dad, a bio dad.
(35:47):
It's really interesting to see how deeplythat cuts that they've been lied to.
They're 55 years old and they found outI'm not Jewish and I thought I had, you
know, Holocaust survivors in my familyand now I find out I'm not even part of
that family and that's their thinking.
So.
I think, you know, obviouslypeople listening to this are,
(36:09):
maybe have gone past that already.
I don't know.
But I guess my words of cautionwould be to be cautious because
there are people who are not healthy.
There are people who may takeadvantage or they might have
a really wonderful outcome.
I've talked to some who thoughtthey'd found their biological parent,
(36:31):
and then it turned out it wasn't.
Now they've built and establisheda relationship with that person and
then find out, oops, that wasn't him.
Now another hurt.
So I just think you have to be cautious.
You don't have to be afraid orlive in fear, but just get with
that therapist, get with somebodythat's walked this journey.
(36:51):
Get with a good friend who has a veryobjective perspective and take your time.
There's no rush.
Haley Radke (37:00):
Yes, definitely, I mean.
Huh.
I should say sometimes people feel a senseof urgency depending on how old they are
when they search those kinds of things.
And that also can make usmake some foolish choices, so.
Megan Hunter, MBA (37:17):
That's true.
Haley Radke (37:18):
Yeah.
As much as you can.
I totally agree.
Take your time and have, have someonewalking alongside you if you can.
Megan Hunter, MBA (37:24):
Yeah.
And if I can just sayone thing real quick.
This has probably beenkind of heavy for people.
It's just reality.
I'm very much about realityand being authentic, and if it
helps someone, I hope it does.
There's also some really great stuffthat's happened in my life and I have
these two sisters, half sisters, andwe vacationed together this summer.
(37:47):
I look in their eyes and I see my eyes,and those are, as you know, it's really
cool when you finally find someone thatlooks like you or they talk like you
or they act like you or you find youhave these common traits and, you know,
wonderful, wonderful relationships.
And I'm, I'm very fortunate thatI've, I've been blessed with like
some great humans in my life.
(38:09):
The only downside with that is there arefour siblings in that family, and two
are on the out, way out, and two are in.
And so when I came into it, it wasthree sisters and me, and I was
considered a triplet with them.
There's twins and then Iwas, I was so much like them.
They called me their triplet.
(38:29):
Well, those two twins don't talk anymore.
Haley Radke (38:32):
Mm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (38:32):
And that was another loss for me was feeling like I'd lost
now the sisterhood because of that.
Haley Radke (38:39):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (38:39):
But you know, as a grownup, you have
to accept those things and.
Haley Radke (38:44):
Man, it's complicated.
Megan Hunter, MBA (38:45):
It's complicated.
Haley Radke (38:46):
Well, I, I'll share with you before we do recommended resources.
I'm in Reunion for over 12 yearsnow, and I also have siblings
and was at my youngest sister'swedding earlier this year, you know?
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:01):
Oh.
Haley Radke (39:01):
So you get to reclaim some of those special moments that
perhaps you missed growing up with them.
But it's pretty amazing to buildthose relationships now as adults.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:11):
You got to be at the wedding.
Haley Radke (39:12):
I did.
Yes.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:14):
That's amazing.
Haley Radke (39:15):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:15):
That's so amazing.
I love that.
Oh, that's so good.
Haley Radke (39:18):
Yep.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:19):
So good.
Haley Radke (39:19):
Well, I am just, I have too many things that we could
keep going on, but you have somany resources available for folks.
In fact I know you have a number of booksout, and so I was like, I don't know what.
I should order to like prep foran interview, but I ordered one.
'cause I'm like, I'm gonna give thisto my friend soon as we're done.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:39):
Oh,
Haley Radke (39:39):
okay.
It, I, I ordered HighConflict Co-parenting Survival
Guide because my friend
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:44):
Nice,
Haley Radke (39:44):
not funny, but is in that very situation and so I was like,
oh perfect, I can give this to her.
And I was listening to your show.
You have a podcast called It's AllYour Fault, High Conflict People, and
you have so much great advice, Megan.
And I saw you present at, not at oneof the conferences, but I think you
(40:07):
did a, a little event for Right toKnow, and you were talking about the
BIFF method and, and those kinds of.
Megan Hunter, MBA (40:13):
Oh, yeah.
Haley Radke (40:13):
I won't, I won't say what those things are.
I mean, people can go and read and listento those, but like, you give so much
very practical advice and I love that.
It's super helpful justin your day to day, right?
Because we're adoptees, but we'rehumans and we live with people,
Megan Hunter, MBA (40:28):
right?
Haley Radke (40:28):
And all those things.
So I hope folks go and checkout all of those things.
Is there anything in particular youwanna direct adoptees to in all of
your, like, there's so many things.
We'll link, we'll link to all the things,but there's so many things to mention.
Megan Hunter, MBA (40:42):
Yeah, we do have a lot.
So the, we've just in the last monthor two launched a new platform called
conflictinfluencer.com and it'sfor 18 years, we've been training
professionals, like lawyers andjudges and psychologists and all
that, how to deal with high conflictclients, litigants, HR, all of that.
But you know, we discovered there's justa lot of people dealing with high conflict
(41:06):
in their personal lives and they'reconfused by it and they're really tired.
So we launched thisplatform to help anyone.
So I would say that's probably a prettygood resource where to start, all the
books are on the website and there's aclass I teach called Conflict Influencer
and it's like a six week class.
It's really pretty inexpensive.
I am notorious under pricer, but Ijust want people to get the help and,
(41:30):
and get the support from the restof the group and things like that.
So that's always running and there'slittle classes and courses and all
kinds, and the podcast is free.
You know, that's, that's always on.
And my co-founder, Bill Eddie, who'sjust absolutely genius, brilliant.
He's the one that came up withBIFF and EAR and all these things.
We recorded two episodes todayand we're recording another, so
(41:52):
we're always answering listenerquestions and all of that.
Haley Radke (41:55):
It's really helpful like for folks who are like, Ooh,
I kind of wanna know more of that.
Like, seriously, it's not like oneof those shows where you sort of
skim the top and you don't ever getto, they're like, buy this course.
So then you can really know,like you share all the things.
Megan Hunter, MBA (42:10):
I probably have a problem.
I don't even know.
Haley Radke (42:14):
Oh, I'm sure someone, someone out there would tell you to pay wall some
of that, but no, I'm really thankful.
I have the same thing, right?
Adoptees On free for all, for, youknow, hopefully forever in the will.
And I think it's important, you know, likewe have these stories and this wisdom,
you have this expertise and I think it canbring peace to so many people, you know?
Megan Hunter, MBA (42:38):
Yeah.
Haley Radke (42:38):
So thank you.
Thank you for sharing that and forsharing some of your story with us.
What an honor to hear the personal, so weare best to connect with you then online?
Megan Hunter, MBA (42:48):
So probably conflictinfluencer.com.And
my last name is Hunter.
So I'm Megan Hunter on Instagram.
I think it's like Megan Hunter officialor something, and I can give you the
links, but I have all kinds of socialmedia that I never use, so you can
find me at conflictinfluencer.com.
Haley Radke (43:06):
It's because she's out there teaching people.
You're at conferences, you're presentingto businesses and traveling the world.
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (43:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Trying to hold it all together and makegood decisions and have good relationships
all at the same time, but you're doingthe same and it's, you know, really,
really important work you're doing.
So I'm, I'm really grateful for that.
It's, it's needed.
Haley Radke (43:32):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I don't know if I gave this the biggestsell in the episode, but you would
not believe the difficult situationsthat Megan has helped folks navigate.
(43:54):
She is like this amazing mediatorand truly, I have learned
so much from their podcast.
It's so, so good.
Even in just day to day of howyou, you know, interact with people
online or if you're gonna send thatemail, you know following their
(44:17):
method of how to write things isjust really helpful and practical.
Am I repeating myself?
Anyway, I hope that if you have beenstruggling in a relationship with someone
that's really, really difficult, thatyou do go and listen to her show and
look up some of those resources thatthey're offering because it's so helpful.
(44:41):
Super duper helpful.
And, you know, we kind of talked aroundthis a little bit in the episode,
but reunion can just be so fraught.
You know, everyone brings all their ownbaggage to the table, and you have this
idea that you're going to like meet yourfamily, and we're gonna be so much alike
(45:03):
and everything's just gonna go smoothly.
And that is just fake.
It's not real.
That is unrealistic unless everyoneparticipating is actively working on
themselves and working on the relationshipand being really communicative and
(45:23):
open it it just doesn't go the way theyou know, reunion shows show you the,
the, we used to call it reunion porn.
Do we, are we still saying that?
Anyway, so I hope that if this is youand you're in the new stages or you're
thinking about searching and that you,do slow down and you get some support
(45:48):
'cause it's very difficult stuff.
I really appreciate you listening,and I, I'm so thankful to each
guest that shares their expertiseand lived experience with us.
It's just a real gift to be able toshare these conversations with you.
If you wanna keep hearing more AdopteesOn, you can partner with us and go
to adopteeson.com/partner and signup to support the show on Patreon.
(46:13):
We would love to have youthere, and thanks for listening.
Let's talk again soon.
This podcast is for educational and
entertainment purposes only.
Nothing stated on it either by its hostsor any guests, is to be construed as
psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to adopteeson the podcast where adoptees
(00:20):
discuss the adoption experience.
I'm Haley Radke.
It is such an honor to bringyou today's guest, Megan Hunter.
Megan is known as the conflictinfluencer and is the co-founder
of the High Conflict Institute.
We get to know Megan's personalstory today, including her reunion.
(00:42):
Megan shares about how she first connectedwith her birth mother about a gut
wrenching experience with her biologicalfather that resurfaced an adoptee wound,
and she offers us advice in navigatingnew reunion relationships, including
both the complex and the beautiful sides.
Before we get started, I wannapersonally invite you to join our
(01:04):
Patreon adoptee community today overon adopteeson.com/community, which
helps support you and also the show tosupport more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommendedresources and as always, links to
everything we'll be talking about todayare on the website, adopteeson.com.
Let's listen in.
(01:27):
I'm so pleased to welcome toAdoptees On, Megan Hunter.
Hi, Megan.
Megan Hunter, MBA (01:32):
Hello.
Hi, Haley.
Hi everyone.
Thanks for having me.
Haley Radke (01:36):
What an honor to talk to you.
I'd love it if you wouldstart the way we normally do.
Would you share someof your story with us?
Megan Hunter, MBA (01:43):
Adoptee story business.
I'm usually doing businesspodcasts, so, or conflict podcasts.
So that's what I'm used to talking about.
Haley Radke (01:50):
I know we're going to the personal today.
How about that?
Megan Hunter, MBA (01:53):
Not the personal side.
Alright, we can do that.
I was adopted at the age of two months.
So my biological parents are, they were,you know, last year of high school,
senior year, and the relationship didn'tlast, and I was born in September.
So what would've been their.
I guess their freshman year of college.
(02:15):
So they chose to place me for adoptionand I guess I went to a foster
home for a couple of months and Iwas told it was a wonderful one.
And then I was adopted by somereally wonderful people in Nebraska.
So I grew up on a farm.
And had two, I had an older sister whowas my parent, my adoptive parent's,
(02:36):
natural child, and then they'd losttwo children before she was born.
Very tra you know, sadlywith some heart problems.
So they had her, she also had theheart problems, but she survived it.
And at that point, I think they were like.
This is too painful totry to have more children.
You know, genetically, there's obviouslysomething wrong, but they wanted more
(02:59):
kids, so they adopted a boy and thentwo years later adopted another boy,
and then two years later adopted me.
So I'm the youngest of four and grewup my whole life knowing I was adopted,
which I'm so grateful for because I knowa few people who didn't know for a long
(03:20):
time, and that's just been a painfuljourney for them, or painful new piece
of news too, to absorb and assimilate.
So yeah, I was grateful for that.
And I'm sure there'll be lots of, lotsof questions about the whole, all of it.
But I guess the, the fast forwardpart is in my twenties, I was about
24 or 25 when I was flipping throughtelevision stations and I just, just
(03:46):
flipping through, you know how you, soyou're like on something for two seconds
before you flip to the next thing.
At least back in the old days.
I don't even think we do that anymore.
Haley Radke (03:53):
No.
You just like, look up what youwanna watch and there it is.
Right.
Megan Hunter, MBA (03:56):
I just realized that.
Yeah.
Right.
Haley Radke (03:59):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (03:59):
We used to do that.
I, I mean, like I grew up whenwe didn't even have remotes so
ancient, but, so I'm flipping through.
See, I, I lived in Nebraska, but we gotColorado news stations and networks and
things, and there was a Colorado news, aTV sh, you know, news show on, and I just
caught in those two seconds adoptees.
(04:20):
So I went back to that stationand they had this story about
Colorado had just opened their birthrecords to adoptees for six months.
You had a window.
And so I followed up, I'll followedthrough and I think I paid $125 or
something very, very nominal for.
They assigned me to a intermediary whohad access then to whatever records were
(04:47):
available, and she tracked down my birthgrand maternal grandmother and that led
her to my biological mom, birth mother.
I told her, you know, like I didn'thave any expectations of ever,
ever meeting anyone, but I, I wasinterested in medical information.
(05:13):
I mean, I was honest and authenticabout that, but, so she did write me a
letter back and gave me, you know, somemedical information, but there were no
names or any identifying informationincluded, and I didn't expect it.
I didn't give her mine.
And then about three months later,after a couple of letters, maybe the
intermediary called and said, yourbirth mother would like to talk to you.
(05:35):
So, I don't know, within a day or twowe were on the phone and this thing
I'd been, you know, thinking aboutfor 25 years was suddenly happening.
I had this, this, the, the dream,the fantasy, you know, that we all
create in our head about who they areand what they look like and all that.
Well, I was born in the Vietnam War era.
I knew my bio father had goneinto the military, so I, in
(06:00):
my fantasy mind, he was dead.
I just thought, you know, Vietnam.
So that was my story.
Well, it turns out he wasvery much alive and still is.
So, so I got to, I got to meet him first,and he didn't have any other children.
I was it.
And then I met my birth mother.
(06:21):
Probably sometime in the nextsix months or so, and she had
four kids that were born afterme and three daughters and a son.
So I've gotten to know all themand then her husband and you
know, now it's been over 25 years.
So I have some experience now.
Haley Radke (06:39):
You do.
You so do.
And because you're an expertin conflict resolution, you
have all these skills for sure.
Now that would help I'm sure,in difficult reunion situations.
How about when you were 25, 26, 27and those difficult things come up?
(06:59):
Can you remember anything thatwas particularly challenging?
Megan Hunter, MBA (07:03):
At the beginning, I was just in my twenties.
I think I was just full of lifeand exuberant and it was like,
oh, this is great, you know?
So I just kind of accepted.
I was very accepting ofeveryone and I wasn't cautious.
At all.
I just went full in like,oh, this is so exciting.
And so there wasn't conflict inthe beginning, I would say took
(07:23):
about a decade for the skeletonsto come outta the closet.
You know, it was kind of like we'reall putting our, our best foot
forward, you know, in our shiny faces.
And as we all know, in everyfamily there's some skeletons
somewhere and some conflict.
So when those things came up, I didn'tnecessarily know how to handle them.
(07:46):
Well, and I, I wouldn't say I was in theconflict, but I just had funny feelings.
Haley Radke (07:53):
Hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (07:54):
So on my, my bio dad side there was, there was no conflict
me with anyone, but he and his siblingshad tons of conflict, and so I could
step back and watch this from afarand it's like, yeah, this is great.
I don't have to be in it.
Birth mother's side of the family,you know, they had their dynamics,
(08:15):
their sibling histories and all ofthat, and again, I wasn't part of it.
So when they had big conflict,I was still this outsider.
Now in my adoptive family, loadsof conflict, high conflict.
So I, I finally reached a pointwhere I realized that when you
come from an adoptive place and youknow, all these families, plus I'd
(08:39):
been married, had that family, gotdivorced, got remarried have family.
You have a lot of family now, andI realized that with every family
comes that some of those skeletons,some of that conflict history, you
know, drama and it can be too much.
(08:59):
I felt overwhelmed because therewas too much drama in many of
the families, most of them.
So I think as an adoptee, thatwas really challenging for me.
Even though I could step back fromsome of it, it still affected me.
So if you want me to focus on.
A back breaker of a conflict.
(09:21):
I can do that.
Haley Radke (09:24):
Well, as you were talking, I was thinking like sometimes
we are the skeletons in the closetwhen we come back and find, right?
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:32):
Yeah.
Haley Radke (09:32):
And so
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:32):
I was.
Haley Radke (09:33):
Yes.
Did your siblings know aboutyou on your maternal side?
No.
So they have to just, momhas to share that secret.
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:42):
Yep.
She'd never shared with anyone.
Except her mother.
Haley Radke (09:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That can be so difficult in relationship.
Just that.
Megan Hunter, MBA (09:51):
Yeah.
And she's a very private person and I'ma talker, you know, and I'm exuberant
and she's very private and quiet.
So that was, was difficult, but itwas so kind that she did share this
information with her family and theyaccepted me completely open armed.
Haley Radke (10:09):
Hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (10:10):
And I have wonderful relationships with a couple of my
sisters, and there's just, that'sbeen just a highlight in my life.
Haley Radke (10:17):
Oh, I'm so glad for you, Megan.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, you, you, you gottashare the doozy because, you
know, we're all waiting to hear.
You're like, Haley, you have to ask that.
I will, I will.
Megan Hunter, MBA (10:29):
A little, little teaser there.
Yeah, and I, I, I'm willing toshare this because I think as
adoptees we do deal with somethingdifferent than non- adoptees and I,
I think it's at a cellular level.
So on my birth father's side, like Isaid, there was a lot of conflict in that
family, and if they would get together fora gathering, it would last a day or two.
(10:52):
And then like there's a blow up and thenthey're making booking tickets to go fly
home immediately and that kind of thing.
I would go visit my paternal grandmother.
And I realized I could handle about12 hours before I felt exhausted
and kind of overwhelmed and likeneeded to get outta there, right?
(11:13):
So you know I had probably known him 15years or so, and my bio dad called me, he
lived several states away, and he said,you know, for my mom's 80th birthday,
I'm gonna fly to where she lives.
Surprise her and tell herwe're gonna hop in her car and
we're gonna drive to see you.
And stay with you for 10 days.
(11:34):
Exactly.
That must have been the look on my face.
I'm like, okay, God, I cando anything for 10 days.
Right.
I can be charitable, I can be generous.
I have a big house.
We can, I can make this work.
I'll just do it.
Right.
So it, you know, we're, eh,first three days are okay.
(11:54):
And then it just, things kind ofstarted feeling weird and like
they'd kind of disappear and wouldn'tsay they were going anywhere and
they'd be gone for hours and hours.
It was just, I don't know,just no communication.
And I would start to get that feelingagain, of just being like, run down and at
the edge of falling apart, but I'm strong.
(12:14):
I got this, I can do this.
So we were going to have a wehosted in our home like a, a weekly
like marriage Bible study formarried couples on Monday nights.
So I told my bio dad and hismom about this and I said,
look, you don't have to come.
I'm not trying to proselytize, butit's something we do in our home.
If you'd like to come, you're welcome.
(12:36):
If not, no problem.
She said, no thanks.
He said, yeah, pleasecome get me in my room.
So I went and got him in his room.
When it was time we walkeddown the hall together.
And right before we got to the livingroom, he said I gotta get something.
I'll be right back.
So I thought, well, I mustneed his glasses or something.
I don't know.
Never came back.
(12:58):
Never did come back.
So afterwards, I sent myson down to the bedroom.
So what, you know, to find him.
And he's like, he's not there.
He's not in the backyard,he is not in the front yard.
He's gone.
He's just not there.
Odd, right.
We looked, we kind ofwaited, just wasn't there.
So the next morning I just woke up at 5:30in the morning, and which isn't normal.
(13:23):
I usually, it's like 6:30 or seven.
And I immediately had thisthought, they're gone.
I woke up my husband and Isaid, honey, they're gone.
What are you talking about?
They're, they're gone.
I know they're gone.
No, they're supposed to be hereanother three or four days.
They're gone.
I got my robe.
Walked down the hall, they were gone.
(13:44):
And I think as an adoptee that rippedthe rug right out from under me.
You know, there's probably a lot of,a lot of variables there, but you
know, in birth family in all of this.
But I guess I didn't knowwhat was gonna happen.
So it wasn't necessarily like a bigconflict, it was just they were gone.
(14:05):
So my husband's said,let's, go to breakfast.
So we went to this restaurantand we sat on the patio for
probably three or four hours.
And I had, which from the outsideprobably looked like a nervous breakdown.
Haley Radke (14:18):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (14:18):
Or a psychotic break.
I would just sob and weep from mycore over this, probably abandonment.
Haley Radke (14:28):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (14:28):
Right.
Even though I didn't evenlike this guy that much, I
didn't like his mom that much.
Why is it affecting me so deeply?
I would just, I would weep fromthe, I mean, guttural, ugh.
It was horrible.
And then that, you know, I'dgo for a while and then I'd
start laughing hysterically.
So like I said, crazy lady.
But that was my reality that morning.
(14:50):
And I think looking back, you know,it's been 15 years better ago now,
and, and I realize that my belief is insome of us, based on our temperament,
our DNA, our life experiences andall of that, our biological family,
our resilience, you can have that rugripped from under you and not, not
(15:11):
real, just you have no idea its coming.
You don't know it's there that you canget hurt deeply, even by people you don't
feel like you're even that close to.
So that's my big conflict story.
Not that I, I mean, it, it just endedwith me setting limits when, when they
called that night because word gotaround quickly to a cousin who called
(15:33):
an aunt, who called him on the road.
So he called me and I was of courseupset and I, I just said, look, I never
wanna see your mother again, and I'll letyou know when I'm ready to talk to you.
And I must have soundedpretty fierce what he heard.
It was, I'll never wannatalk to either of you again.
Haley Radke (15:51):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (15:53):
Right.
So we have healed things sincethen, but I'm pretty cautious.
Then fast forward to about sixyears, five years ago, my little
grandson's first birthday party.
Now I've let these folksback in my life again.
He and his wife, they wanna come out formy first grandchild's first birthday.
(16:14):
Great.
Come on out and we just finished thedinner and you know, I'm an excited
Nana, I love my little grandbaby andits first birthday and oh, the cake and
the good to the presents and all that.
So we'd finish the dinner, we'resitting at the table and just
waiting to, you know, get thetable cleared and we're gonna have
(16:36):
the cake and presents and things.
And he looked at me, he said, I justwanted to let you know I went to our
lawyer and took you out of our will.
Haley Radke (16:45):
At the party, he said this to you?
Megan Hunter, MBA (16:47):
Mm-hmm.
Now, as an adoptee, I neverhad an expectation of being in
the will in the first place.
Haley Radke (16:55):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (16:57):
25, 30 years ago, he, out of the blue,
told me he put me in his will.
Okay, great.
Thank you.
So now the expectation's there.
You don't even think about itagain, you've forgotten about it
until someone, the person who gavelife to you tells you, lemme rip
that rug out from under you again.
(17:19):
So there we were again, and Iwas much stronger at by that
point and had been in therapy.
But I still think there's so muchabout being adopted that at least
for me is at a cellular level.
Haley Radke (17:33):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (17:34):
I don't know.
Haley Radke (17:35):
How long did it take you from your setting the limit
after that first disappearingact to engaging with him again?
Megan Hunter, MBA (17:48):
Mm, it might've been over five years.
Haley Radke (17:51):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (17:52):
Yeah.
I was just, I was just, I'venever had anything like that.
Just, I just, I could feel it in my cells.
That's all.
That's the only way I knowhow to, to, to describe it.
Haley Radke (18:03):
Well in this behavior, I'm telling you, something inflammatory at
a public celebratory occasion is like,this person just really wants a scene
or something like that is so wild.
What a choice.
Megan Hunter, MBA (18:19):
Yeah, it's like just no really low social skills, I think.
And you know, I, I don't thinkthere was bad intent by it.
It was just, you know, the explanationthe next day was you know, your husband
supports you and you have your own companyand so you don't need anything from us.
Well, that's true.
However.
(18:41):
The underlying part ofthis is the human part.
Yeah.
You know?
Haley Radke (18:46):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (18:46):
And maybe in a different setting,
said in a different way.
Like, hey we've had this conversationand here's what we decided to do.
We just wanted to let you know.
So that was my experience.
And after then, after that.
Like he, the look on my facemust not have looked great.
He saw that, noticed it, blamedhis wife for everything, and
(19:09):
then took off out of the house.
Like I told you, conflict, they run.
Well, they rode with us in ourcar, so we had to come back
and the next day we dropped 'em attheir condo and the next day they,
they said, hey, we we're, we'renot feeling well today, you know?
And then they contactedme the following day.
I had lunch with them, brought my daughteralong who they hadn't seen yet, and
(19:32):
I just kept it surface and pleasant.
And when he went to the bathroomat the restaurant, his wife looked
at me and said, are we okay now?
And I said, no.
What I've learned from this isyou can have too much family.
Haley Radke (19:49):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (19:50):
Which probably wasn't the nicest thing to say, but it's the
only thing I could think in that moment.
Haley Radke (19:54):
Mm-hmm.
That's so real though.
Megan Hunter, MBA (19:57):
Yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot to carry.
Haley Radke (20:01):
So a lot of people, we, we even did a whole series on adoptee
estrangement, and so a lot of peopleare choosing to go this route now.
And I know with your expertise,like you help people navigate
really challenging circumstances andespecially with people who are high
conflict, really difficult people.
(20:22):
And so do you have a, a line or, orthings that you tell people about, like,
listen, if you see this, we really gotta.
Yes.
Safer to break ties, or if thesethings are happening, I could
help you work through that.
Like, do you have somethinglike that that you could share?
Megan Hunter, MBA (20:43):
Yeah, we do.
I mean, it's, we do work with a lotof people in really tricky situations,
whether it's adoptee, I mean, it's.
Infrequently adoption related, but it's,you know, high conflict, which is a, a
kind of a pattern of an, an individualwith a pattern of doing a lot of blaming
and having, you know, really extremebehaviors, unmanaged emotions, and
(21:07):
very all or nothing in their thinking.
And it's just kind of how they approachlife kind of unconsciously, like an
operating system so they can wreak havocon their close relationships and even
relationships at work, but especiallyin intimate relationships and parenting
and families, siblings, all of that.
So the people that come to us areusually often in times in despair.
(21:30):
Like, I'm in a deep dark holeand I don't know what to do.
I don't know how to get out.
Everything I do is a misstep.
I'm wrong.
I'm blamed, I'm scared, I'm frustrated.
I'm exhausted by the chaos.
So what we help people do is justunderstand, first of all what high
conflict looks like and then they startto get this first like kind of brick in
(21:53):
the foundation of, okay, I'm not crazy.
And then it's kind of understandingwhat's happening with this other person
and accepting that this is who they areand I'm not gonna be able to change it.
Therefore I have tochange how I approach it.
So we do have, you know, communicationskills we teach, which is, you know, using
(22:16):
what we call EAR statements when they'reescalating, complaining, blaming, give
them something a little with a littleempathy, attention, respect, little EAR.
And it, it helps really connect with thereactive part of the brain and helps them
kind of helps their brain get regulatedmore, gives them what they need before
you have a conversation or get to whatyou need to, like, if you have to have
(22:40):
a difficult conversation, you're gonnasprinkle a little EAR in it whenever the
other person's upset, escalating, blaming,going all or nothing or any of that.
And then we have other little techniques.
We have writing techniques and thingstoo, but a big part of this is setting
limits and with high conflict people,you really have to have this balance
(23:01):
of, of giving them empathy or respect.
Some need respect more than empathy 'causethey'll manipulate you with your empathy.
And then a balance with setting limits,they don't stop themselves and so you
kind of have to give the gift of settinglimits and what that really means bottom
line is I'm going to do what I need to do.
(23:24):
Because if you think about it,we're typically doing what the
other person wants us to do andwe're afraid to assert what we want.
But setting limits, having boundariesis doing or saying what I'm going to do,
I'm going to leave this room now if youdon't stop talking to me in that way.
And if they continue,I'm leaving the room now.
(23:47):
So there's those, little, you know,things that happen in conversations,
but then we go to the bigger picture ofmaking decisions about that relationship.
And that's one that takes some time.
And you know, in these tricky reuniontype situations, you're blending
different cultures basically onan intimate, most intimate level.
(24:09):
And sometimes gonnawork great as you know.
And other times it's going to be trickyand sometimes you're, oftentimes there's
gonna be a, a pretty negative situationthat you find yourself walking into.
So, you know, I like to say, remaincautious for a year at least.
(24:30):
Tread lightly.
Be observant.
Look for the red flags.
Don't make any promises.
Don't get too close, too quickly.
Stay as arms length as possiblefor the first year or so, and then
you can make decisions from there.
'cause I don't know you today, but I will.
(24:52):
I will know you and I'mgonna know that you're okay.
Healthy enough to be in a relationshipwith or not, or somewhere in between.
And that's how far orclose I'm gonna have you.
Haley Radke (25:06):
That's really good advice.
So difficult to follow through in.
Especially for
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:13):
Yes ma'am,
Haley Radke (25:14):
you're meeting your birth mother for the first time.
Your fa like, it's the draw, thelure of like finally getting to
know someone you dreamed about forand had all these stories about.
It's so difficult.
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:30):
Yeah,
Haley Radke (25:31):
and I really encourage people to have a, a competent therapist to walk.
Them through this time tohelp press the brakes for us.
'cause we can't, it's,it's really difficult.
I was gonna say, we can't do it.
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:43):
Yeah.
Haley Radke (25:43):
I mean, we could, but it's hard.
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:45):
Yeah, it's hard.
I like, listen, I'm old now.
I'm a grandma, right.
So I have a lot more experienceand wisdom and missteps along.
Haley Radke (25:53):
You sure look old
Megan Hunter, MBA (25:54):
in my 20.
Haley Radke (25:54):
Just for people who can't see you, like.
Megan Hunter, MBA (26:00):
Filters help,
trying to stay looking young.
But, and the good thing is myvoice sounds young, which is nice.
So the people that can't seeme think I'm really young.
But when I was in my twenties, whenI met everyone, you know, I was just,
I, I didn't have any of these skills.
I didn't know, I was just happy.
Let's, you know, ah, it's gonna be great.
Haley Radke (26:18):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (26:19):
It's like a Odie in Garfield, just ha ha ha.
So it's a, it's a journey.
Haley Radke (26:26):
Well, and I think you kind of alluded to this, but
this deep-seated fear of like a reabandonment, I think is in a lot of us.
And so we will say yes to a 10 dayvisit, even though, or like really,
right, we'll say boundary crossings allover the place just to keep the peace.
(26:49):
And, and that that comes at our costs.
Like it's, you know, and so I think with,you know, lots of therapy and maturity
can come, the ability to set those limits,like you were saying, but it's hard won.
Megan Hunter, MBA (27:04):
Yeah, it is.
And, and you do, I mean, I'm reallyglad you, know, say out loud, get some
competent help to go through this.
I really didn't have any, I just.
Just was fumbling along.
And then over the years, you know, sincethen, finding lots of issues within
(27:24):
my adoptive family too, and havingthat family cut me outta their will.
So kinda, I know, I don't know, toomany people have been cut outta the
will twice for two different families.
But here I am.
Haley Radke (27:38):
You're just too successful.
Like what?
Megan Hunter, MBA (27:42):
In a way which does, you know, not to be, you know,
narcissistic or conceited or anything,but I think there's some, issues of
that in one family, not so much inthe other and none in the other, but.
Yeah, you have to, you just, you needhelp 'cause you have to, it's, these are
really challenging, difficult situationsthat can take a toll on your self-esteem.
(28:05):
And you can really takesome, some big hits.
And there are things I just didn'tunderstand, like why am I looking like a
psychotic person on the patio at Gooding?
You know, back and forth andswinging all over the place.
And, you know, and I, I've been totherapy and, you know, I help a lot
(28:26):
of other people, but at, at the sametime, I was experiencing this myself
and I couldn't get a grip on it.
I just couldn't understand it.
So I think that for me at least, thatseemed like that comes from the deep down
adoption stuff, is there are things we aredoing ourselves, we just can't understand.
Haley Radke (28:48):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (28:49):
Why am I feeling this way?
Why am I doing this?
Why?
So for me, it finally kind of cametogether when, you know, I had to
make some tough decisions in my lifeabout my adoptive family and just some
really heavily unhealthy things there.
And it was okay for about threedays after I made my decision.
(29:10):
Tough.
I'm strong.
I've got a great husband.
I have great kids, all this.
And day three, I was like, wake up,woke up and I always felt like I was
falling apart, like I felt a littlecrumbly and I called my husband
at his office about 10 o'clock.
I said, I've never nothad a family before.
I don't know how to do this.
I don't know if I can do this.
(29:32):
He hops in his car, drove home fromhis office, 30 minutes, sat me down at
the table, my calm, cool, collective,super sweet husband, and he looked
at me and he said, don't ever againlet anyone hold your self-esteem,
value, or happiness in their hands.
That was it.
I was over it.
(29:52):
I was fine, and I've been fine ever since.
It's been years.
There's something in that that I guess.
I don't know if it's just mytemperament that I didn't have that
strong self-esteem or know who Iwas or was adoption part of it.
I don't know, but it surehelped with all of it.
Haley Radke (30:10):
Hmm.
Thanks for sharing that.
I don't know if you're comfortable talkingabout this, but I know your a mom and
you have a big family, extra, extra stepkids now, and you've got, you know, lots
of people to love who all are influencedwhen we're talking about reunion, right?
It's,
Megan Hunter, MBA (30:29):
yeah.
Haley Radke (30:29):
Trickles down.
So in the difficult times, how did youtalk about these things with your kids,
you know 'cause I'm estranged from myadoptive parents also and it's, rare,
but every once in a while, one of mychildren will be like, ask about the
grandparents they barely remember anymore'cause it's been a number of years.
(30:51):
Right.
And so having those conversationswith them and also trying to make
sure they know I'm not gonna goanywhere, you know, like I'm here.
Megan Hunter, MBA (31:01):
True.
Haley Radke (31:02):
And also they know their mom is adopted and
I was separated from my parent.
Right.
So.
So it's really complex to havethese conversations with our
children at whatever age orstage it's sort of happening.
Do you remember havinganything like that with yours?
Megan Hunter, MBA (31:18):
Probably not in such a thoughtful way as
you've just said it, I think.
Honesty is always a great policy.
And I think that came from my parentsalways telling me I was adopted.
So that's just kindacarried through my life.
I think being authentic can't hurt.
So I think if you've raisedyour children with that secure
attachment, that's the foundation.
(31:40):
And then you can be honest and, andyou know, depending on their age.
But just asking them, you know, whenmommy, if something came up and you
say, you know, if when mommy goesto the store, does Mom come back?
Yep.
Well, I'm always gonna come back for you.
I'm always here.
You know?
So I think it's just repetitiveinformation like that and action, and it
(32:03):
can be words or it can be your actions.
Right.
It's just, it's just being there.
So did I have that conversation?
Hmm.
Not so much.
I would probably whined and complainedit too much, but they were older.
Haley Radke (32:16):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (32:16):
You know, but even things that I probably took
missteps or screwed up with my kids,I've been able to kind of repair
that, you know, in adult life.
And I'm just very vulnerable andtransparent with them and they
experience changes that I'm goingthrough that are pos, you know.
All changes, I guess.
(32:37):
But I'm always working toward positivegrowth and development and they feel that.
Haley Radke (32:43):
I bet.
Megan Hunter, MBA (32:44):
And now they're pretty healthy for the most part.
And they make decisionsabout people in their lives.
They're very supportive of me.
I've been very much, don'tbe a take sides person.
If you wanna have a relationship withany of the people that I don't have a
relationship with, that's your choice.
(33:06):
I will respect that andsupport whatever you decide.
If something becomes unhealthy andI see it, I might bring it up to
you, but it's gonna be up to you.
It's your choice.
And I think through that, that's taughtthem to make their own choices and they
are healthy choices because of that.
Haley Radke (33:23):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (33:24):
The bad part of it, the negative or the negative side
I've seen is that when I kind of dida walk away from my adoptive family.
Then one of my children kind ofwanted to distance himself from
his brother, my other child.
And I, you know, I keepsaying, don't do that.
(33:45):
You can't do that.
We gotta keep our family together, wegotta keep ourselves, you know, and
his comment was, well mom, you know,look, you walked away from your family.
So kinda have to weigh those things.
And role modeling is really important.
And I think for me at least, it wastrying to avoid being all or nothing and,
(34:08):
and saying, look, I'm putting a pause.
I've walked away, but it's a pause.
It may change in a couple of years.
I don't know yet, but I'mgonna do the right thing.
I'm taking right steps, and if Ilearned I've taken a wrong step, I'll
try to make a right one the next time.
If this relationship is meantto heal, I'm open to that.
So I think it's justfiguring out as you call.
Haley Radke (34:31):
Yes.
Okay.
Well said.
Thank you.
Is there anything else that I, I knowyou've sort of dipped your toe in with
the adoptee community or with the NPEcommunity, I know you've gone even
presented at one of the conferences.
And is there anything that you seein adoptees that, especially related
(34:55):
to your expertise in conflict that weshould learn about more or advice for us?
Anything like that?
Megan Hunter, MBA (35:01):
Well, first of all, I was really surprised at the
first conference to see that it was,there's so many, and it was, you know.
In the old days it was just adoptees.
Haley Radke (35:12):
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (35:13):
Now it's all these other non-parent event,
I don't know, what are they?
Embryo donors and allthis, all that other stuff.
And now
Haley Radke (35:20):
This is the Untangling Our Roots conference that we're talking about.
Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (35:23):
Yeah.
And then people who, you know, wereone of 60 children from a sperm donor
and just, it's grown so much andthere's, you see the same desires in
no matter what circumstances you camefrom and the people I've talked to
that have like just found out, let'ssay they're my age and they found,
find out dad's not my dad, a bio dad.
(35:47):
It's really interesting to see how deeplythat cuts that they've been lied to.
They're 55 years old and they found outI'm not Jewish and I thought I had, you
know, Holocaust survivors in my familyand now I find out I'm not even part of
that family and that's their thinking.
So.
I think, you know, obviouslypeople listening to this are,
(36:09):
maybe have gone past that already.
I don't know.
But I guess my words of cautionwould be to be cautious because
there are people who are not healthy.
There are people who may takeadvantage or they might have
a really wonderful outcome.
I've talked to some who thoughtthey'd found their biological parent,
(36:31):
and then it turned out it wasn't.
Now they've built and establisheda relationship with that person and
then find out, oops, that wasn't him.
Now another hurt.
So I just think you have to be cautious.
You don't have to be afraid orlive in fear, but just get with
that therapist, get with somebodythat's walked this journey.
(36:51):
Get with a good friend who has a veryobjective perspective and take your time.
There's no rush.
Haley Radke (37:00):
Yes, definitely, I mean.
Huh.
I should say sometimes people feel a senseof urgency depending on how old they are
when they search those kinds of things.
And that also can make usmake some foolish choices, so.
Megan Hunter, MBA (37:17):
That's true.
Haley Radke (37:18):
Yeah.
As much as you can.
I totally agree.
Take your time and have, have someonewalking alongside you if you can.
Megan Hunter, MBA (37:24):
Yeah.
And if I can just sayone thing real quick.
This has probably beenkind of heavy for people.
It's just reality.
I'm very much about realityand being authentic, and if it
helps someone, I hope it does.
There's also some really great stuffthat's happened in my life and I have
these two sisters, half sisters, andwe vacationed together this summer.
(37:47):
I look in their eyes and I see my eyes,and those are, as you know, it's really
cool when you finally find someone thatlooks like you or they talk like you
or they act like you or you find youhave these common traits and, you know,
wonderful, wonderful relationships.
And I'm, I'm very fortunate thatI've, I've been blessed with like
some great humans in my life.
(38:09):
The only downside with that is there arefour siblings in that family, and two
are on the out, way out, and two are in.
And so when I came into it, it wasthree sisters and me, and I was
considered a triplet with them.
There's twins and then Iwas, I was so much like them.
They called me their triplet.
(38:29):
Well, those two twins don't talk anymore.
Haley Radke (38:32):
Mm.
Megan Hunter, MBA (38:32):
And that was another loss for me was feeling like I'd lost
now the sisterhood because of that.
Haley Radke (38:39):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (38:39):
But you know, as a grownup, you have
to accept those things and.
Haley Radke (38:44):
Man, it's complicated.
Megan Hunter, MBA (38:45):
It's complicated.
Haley Radke (38:46):
Well, I, I'll share with you before we do recommended resources.
I'm in Reunion for over 12 yearsnow, and I also have siblings
and was at my youngest sister'swedding earlier this year, you know?
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:01):
Oh.
Haley Radke (39:01):
So you get to reclaim some of those special moments that
perhaps you missed growing up with them.
But it's pretty amazing to buildthose relationships now as adults.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:11):
You got to be at the wedding.
Haley Radke (39:12):
I did.
Yes.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:14):
That's amazing.
Haley Radke (39:15):
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:15):
That's so amazing.
I love that.
Oh, that's so good.
Haley Radke (39:18):
Yep.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:19):
So good.
Haley Radke (39:19):
Well, I am just, I have too many things that we could
keep going on, but you have somany resources available for folks.
In fact I know you have a number of booksout, and so I was like, I don't know what.
I should order to like prep foran interview, but I ordered one.
'cause I'm like, I'm gonna give thisto my friend soon as we're done.
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:39):
Oh,
Haley Radke (39:39):
okay.
It, I, I ordered HighConflict Co-parenting Survival
Guide because my friend
Megan Hunter, MBA (39:44):
Nice,
Haley Radke (39:44):
not funny, but is in that very situation and so I was like,
oh perfect, I can give this to her.
And I was listening to your show.
You have a podcast called It's AllYour Fault, High Conflict People, and
you have so much great advice, Megan.
And I saw you present at, not at oneof the conferences, but I think you
(40:07):
did a, a little event for Right toKnow, and you were talking about the
BIFF method and, and those kinds of.
Megan Hunter, MBA (40:13):
Oh, yeah.
Haley Radke (40:13):
I won't, I won't say what those things are.
I mean, people can go and read and listento those, but like, you give so much
very practical advice and I love that.
It's super helpful justin your day to day, right?
Because we're adoptees, but we'rehumans and we live with people,
Megan Hunter, MBA (40:28):
right?
Haley Radke (40:28):
And all those things.
So I hope folks go and checkout all of those things.
Is there anything in particular youwanna direct adoptees to in all of
your, like, there's so many things.
We'll link, we'll link to all the things,but there's so many things to mention.
Megan Hunter, MBA (40:42):
Yeah, we do have a lot.
So the, we've just in the last monthor two launched a new platform called
conflictinfluencer.com and it'sfor 18 years, we've been training
professionals, like lawyers andjudges and psychologists and all
that, how to deal with high conflictclients, litigants, HR, all of that.
But you know, we discovered there's justa lot of people dealing with high conflict
(41:06):
in their personal lives and they'reconfused by it and they're really tired.
So we launched thisplatform to help anyone.
So I would say that's probably a prettygood resource where to start, all the
books are on the website and there's aclass I teach called Conflict Influencer
and it's like a six week class.
It's really pretty inexpensive.
I am notorious under pricer, but Ijust want people to get the help and,
(41:30):
and get the support from the restof the group and things like that.
So that's always running and there'slittle classes and courses and all
kinds, and the podcast is free.
You know, that's, that's always on.
And my co-founder, Bill Eddie, who'sjust absolutely genius, brilliant.
He's the one that came up withBIFF and EAR and all these things.
We recorded two episodes todayand we're recording another, so
(41:52):
we're always answering listenerquestions and all of that.
Haley Radke (41:55):
It's really helpful like for folks who are like, Ooh,
I kind of wanna know more of that.
Like, seriously, it's not like oneof those shows where you sort of
skim the top and you don't ever getto, they're like, buy this course.
So then you can really know,like you share all the things.
Megan Hunter, MBA (42:10):
I probably have a problem.
I don't even know.
Haley Radke (42:14):
Oh, I'm sure someone, someone out there would tell you to pay wall some
of that, but no, I'm really thankful.
I have the same thing, right?
Adoptees On free for all, for, youknow, hopefully forever in the will.
And I think it's important, you know, likewe have these stories and this wisdom,
you have this expertise and I think it canbring peace to so many people, you know?
Megan Hunter, MBA (42:38):
Yeah.
Haley Radke (42:38):
So thank you.
Thank you for sharing that and forsharing some of your story with us.
What an honor to hear the personal, so weare best to connect with you then online?
Megan Hunter, MBA (42:48):
So probably conflictinfluencer.com.And
my last name is Hunter.
So I'm Megan Hunter on Instagram.
I think it's like Megan Hunter officialor something, and I can give you the
links, but I have all kinds of socialmedia that I never use, so you can
find me at conflictinfluencer.com.
Haley Radke (43:06):
It's because she's out there teaching people.
You're at conferences, you're presentingto businesses and traveling the world.
Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA (43:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Trying to hold it all together and makegood decisions and have good relationships
all at the same time, but you're doingthe same and it's, you know, really,
really important work you're doing.
So I'm, I'm really grateful for that.
It's, it's needed.
Haley Radke (43:32):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I don't know if I gave this the biggestsell in the episode, but you would
not believe the difficult situationsthat Megan has helped folks navigate.
(43:54):
She is like this amazing mediatorand truly, I have learned
so much from their podcast.
It's so, so good.
Even in just day to day of howyou, you know, interact with people
online or if you're gonna send thatemail, you know following their
(44:17):
method of how to write things isjust really helpful and practical.
Am I repeating myself?
Anyway, I hope that if you have beenstruggling in a relationship with someone
that's really, really difficult, thatyou do go and listen to her show and
look up some of those resources thatthey're offering because it's so helpful.
(44:41):
Super duper helpful.
And, you know, we kind of talked aroundthis a little bit in the episode,
but reunion can just be so fraught.
You know, everyone brings all their ownbaggage to the table, and you have this
idea that you're going to like meet yourfamily, and we're gonna be so much alike
(45:03):
and everything's just gonna go smoothly.
And that is just fake.
It's not real.
That is unrealistic unless everyoneparticipating is actively working on
themselves and working on the relationshipand being really communicative and
(45:23):
open it it just doesn't go the way theyou know, reunion shows show you the,
the, we used to call it reunion porn.
Do we, are we still saying that?
Anyway, so I hope that if this is youand you're in the new stages or you're
thinking about searching and that you,do slow down and you get some support
(45:48):
'cause it's very difficult stuff.
I really appreciate you listening,and I, I'm so thankful to each
guest that shares their expertiseand lived experience with us.
It's just a real gift to be able toshare these conversations with you.
If you wanna keep hearing more AdopteesOn, you can partner with us and go
to adopteeson.com/partner and signup to support the show on Patreon.
(46:13):
We would love to have youthere, and thanks for listening.
Let's talk again soon.
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