September 12, 2024 • 48 mins
In this episode of AI for Helpers and Changemakers, host Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom interviews Dr. Thenera Bailey, CEO of the SISGI Group. They discuss the opportunities for using AI into the nonprofit sector and its potential benefits and drawbacks.
Dr. Bailey shares her initial skepticism and eventual embracement of AI tools to enhance productivity, particularly for resource-strapped nonprofits. They delve into how AI can assist in various tasks like meeting transcriptions, social media content creation, and volunteer coordination.
The conversation also highlights the importance of inclusivity and accessibility in technology, touching on AI's role in making content more accessible. They conclude with a call to nonprofit organizations to adopt technology proactively and invest in tech-based solutions to improve their operations and outcomes.
Mentioned in this episode:
AI Tools Mentioned:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian AI (00:05):
Are you not sure how to feel about the way AI is suddenly everywhere?
AI for Helpers and Changemakers isa show for people who want to do
good work and help other people.
Whether you're already using AItools and loving it, or you are
pretty sure that ChatGPT is thefirst sign of our downfall, we want
you to listen in and learn with us.
(00:26):
Your host on this journeyis Sharon Tewksbury Bloom.
For 20 years, she's workedwith helpers and changemakers.
She believes that we're about to seethe biggest changes in our work lives
since the Internet went mainstream.
We're in this together.
Join us as Sharon interviews peoplein different helping professions,
navigate what these new technologiesare doing to and for their work.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (00:48):
Welcome.
Thanks for joining me.
If you wouldn't mind introducingyourself your name and a little bit of.
What you do just as the listenersget to know you, that'd be great.
Thenera Bailey (00:58):
I'm Dr.
Thenera Bailey.
I use she, her pronouns.
I am CEO of the SISGI group.
We are a consulting hybrid.
We're part for profit, part non profit.
Nonprofit consulting group.
We work with a variety of clients, fromnonprofits to for profits on mostly
strategies, things that help you meet youroutcomes better, in areas of consulting
(01:23):
awareness, research and training.
my.
focus is to make the world a littlebit better as an organization,
we're focused on sustainablepractices, whatever that looks like.
And so we try with our consulting tonever have our clients constantly need us.
to help them think about.
How they can build on the work thatwe're doing and to think strategically
(01:47):
in the way that they're thinking.
I think also at the root ofour work is a justice focus.
we believe, most of the institutions,whether that's nonprofits or for profit.
were designed not thinking about includingeveryone, whether that's people with
disabilities, people of color, people,women, that you have to rethink your
(02:13):
organizational structure, your processes.
and then, when it's nonprofits, Thingsthat are fundamental to our core, from
education to health to, the serviceswere not designed to include everyone.
Some were designed to excludepeople from the very beginning.
And when we're trying to operatein 2024 and beyond, a lot of
(02:37):
times we're having to disrupt.
And too often, from a non profitstandpoint, we're just trying to retrofit.
And so a lot of our work is just helpingpeople to think about how do we disrupt?
How do we dismantle?
How do we shift our thinking strategicallyso everyone can be part of it?
(02:58):
How do we think in a waythat brings everyone in?
How do we start to thinkabout, an operating strategic
structure, where every person.
part of our fabric as a countryorganization or institution is
included in the work we do, and notthrough a majority or normalized lens
(03:20):
Is really included, so that I canauthentically show up, however that
may be, as a woman, as a person witha disability, as a person of color, as
an LGBTQ plus person, and be seen andincluded and show up without having
to shift, form, configure myself.
(03:43):
To the standard and the structurethat was never designed for me.
And so that is a lot of the workthat we do, across the country.
we do leadership and management,general organizational development
replication of programs and, I love it.
I've been doing art organizationsince 15 years old and, in the
(04:04):
nonprofit space for decades.
that's a little bit about me.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (04:08):
Let's talk about artificial intelligence and new
technology disrupting our ways of workingor our, ways of relating to each other.
Even when did you first becomeaware of artificial intelligence
Thenera Bailey (04:24):
I think where it was labeled as artificial intelligence
probably the last year or two, I think nowthat I know it better, we've been using it
for a while and didn't know So Alexa andeven search are artificial intelligence.
They're learning from us all the time.
I went to a conference and learned howto use chat CCT about two years ago and
(04:51):
had a formal introduction I think upuntil that point, it was there's this AI
thing out there and just heard all the.
The scary that people were saying,and didn't really know much, I
think about two or three years ago.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (05:05):
what brought you to that conference?
Did you seek that out orhow did you end up there?
Thenera Bailey (05:11):
it was a learning and development conference
because we do a lot of, curriculumdevelopment, in our training division.
AI is a growing space.
In learning and development, whetherhigher ed, work or curriculum and design
for, course design and, training design.
And so it happened to be.
(05:33):
Like, track within the conference.
So it wasn't something I thoughtout just because it was AI.
it just happened to me.
I think if it was up to me,I would run away from AI.
It literally, I think everythingup until that point was all fear.
AI is going to take over, right?
(05:53):
it's doing things in away we can't control.
I think that's the narrative thatI had heard up until that point.
And really my mind after attendingthat session was changed.
It helped me really see thepotential, particularly for small
nonprofits who are understaffed.
(06:16):
to use it for fundraising,marketing and development, when
they need quick, fast moving things.
I can explain more about how I thinkabout that as the conversation goes on.
But I think in that moment, it waslike, okay, I'm going to sit through
this training to know how to betteruse it within my little small business.
(06:38):
because it's part of thislearning and development track.
and it really was like the label ofit was like, how to use this to better
improve your business type of thing.
And.
and how not to fear a I, with some ofthe like takeaways for the session and
literally mind change from after it.
And I think that's the framing thatparticularly for those of us in the
(07:01):
helping fields who are mostly justgetting that narrative that like I
is going to ruin everything we do.
It's going to take away our autonomy.
send out the bot.
some of that's true.
But, there are places where if youknow what you're doing, particularly
for organizations who have limitedresources and like you can't hire a
(07:25):
crafty social media manager who can putout and generate good content for you,
or you're having one of those days whereyou have 18 million things going on and
you just need something to get started.
This is the way to go.
I've learned whichplatform I prefer for what.
And I think that hasalso been really helpful.
(07:47):
And I think that has been a learningthat has come from it for me.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (07:53):
I thought it was interesting when you talked about
disrupting and dismantling systems.
I hear a lot of fear around AIdisrupting the ways we're doing things.
And for me, I'm thinking, Well, let'snot assume that's a bad thing, like
some things need to be disrupted.
Some things need to be dismantled.
(08:13):
So I think sometimes themainstream narrative can be,
this is a dangerous technology.
It's disrupting things.
But then I often talk to smallnonprofits or things that say, you
didn't have resources and powerand the ability to get things done.
And this is disrupting the technologyin a way that actually allows you to
(08:35):
have access to expertise and resourcesthat used to only be available to
larger organizations or systems.
Thenera Bailey (08:44):
I think the only way I had heard about AI being used
was college kids cheating on papers,this is going to ruin higher ed.
I was coming at it from thatnarrative how are we going to know
anybody knows anything anymore?
I hadn't thought why would I need it?
I'm not writing a degree.
I don't need to cheat on a paper.
Like what?
Where would be my usefor a full narrative?
(09:08):
And so to talk a little bitmore about like how a smaller
space where we would use it.
One of the prompts it gave was or thein the workshop he talked about if
you just needed a way to summarizevery quickly notes from a meeting.
for those of us wholike consultants or sit.
(09:30):
In tons of meetings, I think of myclients who, are, administrative
assistants in a nonprofit thathas like 12 meetings in a day.
And that admin staff are like, justtrying to keep their head above water.
And where these like otter programsor different, or chat GPT or Microsoft
(09:54):
copilot, can you summarize these notes?
Or can you transcribe the Zoom?
Or can you just that littleamount of saving of time that is
a commodity you can't replace?
For those of us who don't makea ton of money in non profit,
time is something that we reallyneed to value a little bit more.
(10:16):
That's not cheating on a paper.
That is valuable for me, that was mindblowing I didn't think about volunteer
boards, Getting a note summary quicklyafter the meeting, how quickly that
will move movements forward, right?
Like when you're trying to createchange, the ability to get the notes out
(10:36):
quickly, sometimes that's the biggestimpediment to progress that happens.
Someone can't take the notes andthey're just so busy that you just
never know what's happening next.
no one wrote it down.
if someone can transcribe the zoommeeting automatically and everyone
gets it immediately after, likethat keeps progress moving forward.
(10:59):
that's that kind of disruption ofthe system that's a quick answer.
small changes where AI can really havea benefit or like the social media
things where like you have a wonderfulpicture from an event, but you are
not the creative person in my company.
I am.
I come up with all the strategy.
I am very problem solving, but wedon't have a wonderful picture.
(11:22):
I have nothing to say.
Oh, cute.
And after a while, he's like, howmany times do you say great event?
Love having everyone there, right?
And it's you can throw thatpicture in and have it come up
with some neat ways to say it.
If you don't like it, you can say,try again, try again, try again.
And it can come up withsomething until it's done.
(11:42):
Kind of gets it and it learns and startsto tell the voice of your organization.
Now that doesn't mean I want to take thejobs of all the wonderful marketing staff
and the folks that are coming throughcollege now who are probably panicking,
Oh no, they're going to take all our jobs.
But for the organization who wasnever going to be able to afford
that person, This is a great way tobe able to compete in that space.
(12:07):
And I think that's thepeople who we're talking to.
We're not talking to the bigorganization who has the budget.
If you have the budget, you shouldnot be in chat, GBT making this up.
And I think that's the part where Iwant to be really clear that if you
have the resources, use the talentthat you have, I don't think chat GBT
(12:28):
should be a replacement for humans.
But if you don't have it, it'sa good and valuable resource for
people who are trying to wear so manyhats that none of those hats fit.
for someone like me, not a creative,it allows me to have a bit of creative
talent or occasionally a summary talentor an administrative, and like ability
(12:53):
to get those administrative tasks whereI don't have the time to summarize the
notes from a client meeting quickly.
and for smaller organizations where it isall hands on deck, allow you to be robust.
quick and nimble, in ways thatmaybe you would not have the
capacity to do that if you did nothave access to some, artificial
(13:15):
intelligence resources, in ways.
And so being really thoughtful aboutthe ones that you can use and those
that will be most helpful to you.
Don't just try every trick andevery pony, but using the ones
that help you, like transcription,like summaries where it's helpful.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (13:31):
I've surprised people by saying since
I started using AI tools, I hireda new part time team member.
I hired a, marketing assistant.
For 5 to 8 hours a week, because in thepast for me to set up enough work for them
to do and to supervise enough work, itjust didn't make sense for a small part
(13:54):
time position, like a 5 to 8 hours a week.
But now that I've been able toempower them to use AI tools.
The amount they get done in 5 to 8 hoursmakes the ROI worth it for me to hire
someone and train and onboard them.
And so suddenly they're working, this isa good extra little side hustle for them.
(14:16):
And they're able to learn fun, new things.
we are now producing podcast episodesand YouTube videos, creating quite
a bit in a small amount of timeby leveraging different tools.
Thenera Bailey (14:29):
Yeah.
I think it's being thoughtful.
with all technology, I remember startingto see, early and being like, we're gonna
be this first organization and peoplebeing who operates remotely in 2011?
that was not heard of.
And we leverage technology in waysthat, People didn't back then.
(14:51):
Then the pandemic hit and everybodythought, Oh, that makes sense, the
reality is you use technology in waysthat make sense for your organization.
not every technology worksfor your organization.
you have to be really thoughtfulabout the ways you use technology.
for instance, we are a Googleorganization internally.
(15:11):
We use Google email.
slide thoughts to pack because it allowsa lot of collaboration internally.
We use Google meet for internal Meeting,but I don't use Google for clients
because it makes it difficult for them
So we use zoom to meet with individualsoutside of our organization.
(15:34):
We, of course, move into Microsoft to it.
Share, even though I'm aMicrosoft fan, I'm an Apple girl.
Sorry.
and so I think both of us are saying,even with our AI, like it's deciding
the right tool for the right thing.
And I think sometimes when people thinkabout technology, they're like, this
person uses that, so I'm going to use it.
(15:56):
it's not that.
And I found with.
Regardless of what I've chosenfor technology, always finding the
right thing for your organization.
And I think too oftenorganizations are like, we bought
teams, but we're using teams.
he's hot.
don't just use teams just becauseyou are a Microsoft company.
Like teams is great internally, butteams is not the best for collaborating
(16:21):
With external stakeholders.
maybe with your AI tools, think aboutWhat are the best things for creating
social media content and marketingwhen you're doing, content on camera,
but I want to up my marketing game.
these are marketing AI tools.
And, but this, these are the tools thatI really use because I'm trying to build.
(16:42):
My research, right?
We do a lot of research.
And so what I've started to use is AIsometimes just to get my thoughts were
like, these are a whole bunch of notesI took and they are gobbledygook are
like, they were, I was listening tosomeone, they didn't quite say words.
I was trying to typewhile they were talking.
I said, turn it into asummary of two paragraphs.
(17:06):
Of what this person was saying,and I'll use it in that way,
there's some privacy concerns.
Sometimes you want to think about that.
which platform would you use in that way?
it's, I think the biggest thing is takingyour time to determine what's right.
And even like Grammarly, people have beenusing Grammarly for forever and didn't
(17:28):
really think about that's AI, right?
Knowing you've been using it, butpicking the right tools and taking
the time to really discover andmaybe testing a little, right?
And not just adding AI because thisorganization had a really good time
with this and it worked great forthem, but really taking the time
to say, what does our team need?
(17:49):
What is the capacity that ourorganization needs, in talent, in skills?
Particularly because individualshave different skills.
People have different needs withtechnology, their ability and
comfort with technology, and theirspeed at like understanding things.
and then get additional training.
(18:10):
Like that Workshop on Child TBT YouTubechannels and gurus folks like you, Sharon,
who will lead workshops and informationfrom a perspective that makes sense.
you want to hear from people who are notgoing to talk about it from, a super geeky
tech Space but like from a non profitspace, to tell you how to use it So I
(18:33):
think that was really helpful for me orlike I went to a co pilot because i'm
not microsoft fan So I went to a co pilotworkshop and I actually love co pilot.
It's the only Microsoft platform I like
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (18:45):
I think this is so important, what you're saying
about, how do these organizationsfigure out what technology to
use and how they're gonna use it.
You know what I heard you saying was like.
First, get clear about what youneed the technology to do, is
this an internal tool or is thiscollaborating with stakeholders?
what do you actually need andthen understand your capacity?
(19:09):
we work with a lot of nonprofits whoare using a lot of volunteer leaders,
and they have varying levels of comfortwith technology and quite a few times.
I've had them try to use SharePointor use teams or things and those.
pretty high bar of
Thenera Bailey (19:26):
It
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (19:27):
learning curve, and I'm like, you
could use something way easier
Thenera Bailey (19:30):
way simpler.
Yes, or they can be like, thisis what we use internally,
because we are at work every day.
And we sit at a computer every day and Iso, yes, thank you for naming that because
so often I see that with clients whowork with volunteers and it's you forget,
especially older volunteers or volunteerswho are like, not who are mobile.
(19:52):
And we have to realize we're ata mobile point in society where
most people are interacting with.
Data and information on theirdevices, not at a computer.
So for those of us who are like, atour desk, when we interact with things,
we're sending things to people who aregoing to interact with them on a device.
And then we're like, why is it this large?
(20:13):
cause I've seen it on ascreen that is three inches.
And you are looking at a computer andseven screens and your wonderful setup.
And you're like, don't yousee this beautiful thing?
Fill out 25 sheets and interact with it.
you need to think mobile first.
You need to be more mindful.
AI can help you in looking at it inmultiple ways where you can try to
(20:37):
find, platforms that have that differentviewpoint, where if it doesn't work
in mobile, in desktop, in tablet, inthe different views, because, So often
you're right, like we think everybody'sinteracting with it or we think of it
from our work space and people are notinteracting, particularly volunteers.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (20:59):
Yeah,
Thenera Bailey (21:00):
just trying to do it on the go between picking up their
kid or running to the pharmacy.
And we need to be thinking like, howcan I make this as easy as possible?
How can I make it a link?
they get this document totheir phone quickly, easier.
not something they have to dig throughDropbox or SharePoint those tools are
great for us, but for volunteers, it needsto be something really simple to find a
(21:24):
website or something that they can justgo back to mobile first and digital first.
And again, that can be ifyou can't think that way.
Maybe AI can help you think through,what's the easiest way to make
this accessible for a volunteer?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (21:41):
what are some favorite tools you've discovered
and what are you using them for?
Thenera Bailey (21:48):
I started with ChatTV Team.
because that was the oneI took the class with.
then I went to a session Microsoftheld, and I like Copilot better.
I use Copilot as my primary,for text based stuff.
It does not do well with imagesand makes nightmare things.
I don't know what that is.
(22:09):
Um,
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (22:10):
clarify for the listeners in case people aren't
familiar copilot is similar to chat GPTa generative AI large language model.
It's a little assistant for you,but it's built into, it's built by
Microsoft and then the Microsoft tools.
Is that fair to say?
Thenera Bailey (22:27):
yeah, and I like that also because I felt at least
for us, when you have a Microsoftsubscription, it took away the cost too.
it, it seemed like they were reallyspending a lot of time with it, and
I got good results with it once Isigned in and started to learn with it.
So I've been liking Copilot more recently.
we still have the chat TBT, sothose two I go back and forth
(22:50):
with for language based things.
for transcription, I use Otter sometimes.
And I use Zoom's transcription for that.
I use Grammarly, because, I send alot of documents and want to check.
(23:17):
And make sure it's overly sensitive.
it hates my voice.
so I'm constantly like,no, I'm not changing that.
I use Grammarly to check my grammar.
It's embedded in my email.
I do have the app as well.
(23:38):
So,
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (23:39):
And I'm just going to clarify that Otter is a note
taking app, and so it will transcribemeeting notes and summarize meeting notes.
Personally, I use Firefly'sAI for my meeting note
Thenera Bailey (23:51):
Do you like it?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (23:52):
I love it.
Yeah, it's really great.
if you pay for the business plan, it willdo video recordings of your meetings.
Allows me to send not just the notes,but also the recording to someone,
Thenera Bailey (24:06):
Send that.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (24:07):
Yeah.
Thenera Bailey (24:08):
sounds better because I'm not a huge fan of Honor.
It's just the one recommended to me.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (24:13):
what
Thenera Bailey (24:15):
I'm doing that.
It's the only one I was given.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (24:18):
I was told is, I think Otter was
1 of the 1st ones available.
a lot of people jumped on andwe're excited because of what it
did, but now there's competitors
Thenera Bailey (24:28):
yeah.
that's how I felt it's clunky to me.
And I don't use it a lot, I mostlyuse Zoom and I'll just jump in there.
I don't transcribe a lot becauseI'm more of a hand note taker.
And then I do, this isn't really an AIthing, really, I guess it's I don't know.
I use Notability as my note taker it hasa recording feature it shows where your
(24:53):
notes pop up, it's a note taking app.
there's probably some AI built inbecause everything's throwing AI in
right now, but Notability is the app.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: things I like about Fireflies. (25:02):
undefined
I have so many meetings and I have2 different businesses and so I lose
track, like we've we do a planning callbefore a workshop and we brainstorm
how we're going to handle it.
But then 2 weeks go by I'mgetting ready for the workshop.
I forget what we came up with.
Thenera Bailey (25:20):
I
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (25:20):
I can pull up that meeting in the fireflies
site, and then you can use controlF, to search the transcript for a
Thenera Bailey (25:31):
huh.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (25:31):
if I remember, what was I going to do for visuals?
I can search the word visuals andrewatch that part of the meeting,
or read the transcript, but I'verewatched our own meetings for specific
sections where I'm like, oh, right.
That was the idea we had
Thenera Bailey (25:50):
you can record any platform, or have your meetings in Zoom.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (25:53):
no, that's why we switched to fireflies because
we're like, you were internally.
We meet on Google meet externally.
We meet with zoom and then we havesome clients when we use teams
and fireflies is 1 of the onlyplatforms that could record in all
Thenera Bailey (26:08):
Oh, I love that.
Send me that.
We want fireflies.
a good example.
Yeah.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (26:14):
yeah, the other thing I've done with it is I
do strategy sessions with my clients.
And so sometimes during the strategysession, they'll ask a question that
I'm like, Oh, that's a great question.
I should probably writea blog post about that.
Thenera Bailey (26:28):
then you can go back.
You're
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (26:30):
I'll actually throw the transcript into chat GPT say,
please suggest three blog posts basedon this strategy session outline them
then I'll come back and write them.
Thenera Bailey (26:43):
good.
you're much further it.
I'm not using AI in thatway, but that's smart.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (26:51):
So I wanted to jump to the transcripts because
I know you have experience withinclusion and people with disabilities.
my first job in nonprofitswas working for a.
Nonprofit helping people whoare blind or print disabled
and I remember how hard it was.
That was back in 2007 our entirenonprofit existed because it was
(27:12):
so hard for someone who was blindto get access to information.
Now, with the fact that all of theseare large language models, one thing
that has been really exciting for meto see is that almost every single
piece of content is being transcribed,whether you want it to or not.
it's like a default setting now.
It's we're going to transcribe this.
(27:34):
Whereas it used to, I had topay like a lot of money to get
transcriptions done of recordings.
Now it's a built in featureto a lot of technology.
And so the way that's makingthings more accessible to people
who are print disabled or who areblind is Completely revolutionary.
(27:55):
I'm curious if you've seen anythingelse along those lines in terms
of ways that this technology ischanging the space of inclusion
and making things more accessible.
Thenera Bailey (28:08):
yeah, I think, the ability to change things into
languages, has definitely, that'snot really a disability thing, but
it's definitely a language inclusion.
We work with also a lot ofclients who are dealing with
folks who are not English only.
And so the ability to use AI, it's notas accurate, but to also translate.
(28:33):
has been a really good.
It helps in just getting it startedto be able to, of course, transcribe.
We do a lot of our,asynchronous or LMS courses.
We try to make them accessible.
And so a lot of times videos and,content needs to be transcribed.
And so it helps us to be able to be like.
(28:56):
Hey, throw this document in andthen we can have the transcription.
yeah, it definitely helps tomake those things move faster.
helps us to be able to check things.
I think there's also, because there area lot more, and I think, you can now
do on, and that's another one, like onyour phone, there's like speech to text
(29:17):
and other, tools that are AI generated.
we have a bunch of, Resources and I'mblanking on them now that we've done an
accessibility workshop that are just builtinto your phone or built in resources.
you can check color contrast and, inyour, PowerPoint and others that are
(29:38):
in some ways a form of AI to check, ifyou're meeting accessibility guidelines.
In the things that you are creating,whether that's a Microsoft document or
a PowerPoint deck or a keynote workshopto make sure that they are accessible,
adding the, alt text on images.
(30:00):
Some of those things are now you canauto create them through AI, so that
you're not having to always sync them.
that they'll auto generate based upon theimage that's there, which I think saves
time and also stops people who don'thave those, disabilities from forgetting.
(30:21):
And I think that's just more inclusivebecause I think people who don't have
those experiences tend to just forget.
Yeah, um.
not see the priority in includingthem, often, particularly with social
media tends to be very exclusionary.
(30:41):
And so we tend to use colors wherepeople can't see, we tend to forget to
do alt text in our images, it's alsobecause they don't live very long.
And it's I'm just going toquickly throw this up there.
And then nobody who needs the alttext or is using a screen reader.
It's like this big blank.
Instagram.
So I think having things and usingtools that are just automatically
(31:05):
creating those things for you helpto make everything more accessible.
And the more AI is just generating thatfor you, it's more naturally inclusive.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (31:17):
Absolutely.
I completely agree.
And I think that, there are some toolsthat are literally using AI to do it.
There's other things where, becausethey're going to put the information
into AI, they are now, Designingthe tool so that, it can create a
transcription or that it can, there'sways that the whole technology industry
(31:40):
is reorienting itself because of AI,which has the sort of unintended benefit
of making things more accessible.
I don't think that was thepoint, but I think that's been an
Thenera Bailey (31:53):
no.
And I think also, when I thinkwe've had interns for years who
have, uses assistive technology.
And I think a lot of that definitelyaligns with aspects of AI.
And I think AI has learned fromthe assistive technology space
ways to benefit from that.
And things like speech to text,a lot of that comes from like
(32:18):
what we're learning now with AI.
So I think, eventually we're going to seethis kind of merging of the world where.
People who are using assistivetechnology also benefit from some of
the learnings from AI, and AI benefitsfrom the people who are using assistive
technology, and, hopefully it justmakes things more, more inclusive
(32:40):
and more naturally integrated so thateverything's more, accessible generally.
like one of the things I reallylike about Zoom as, as they are.
And one, one of the reasons why it's mygo-to for all external or event-based
presentations is it is the moreinclusive of the web-based platform.
(33:07):
So it does have like languagechannels, it does have the captioning,
like automatically it does have.
So there's just ways that itthinks about how can I make this.
As accessible as possible.
So if you're using sign languageinterpreters, like you can automatically
(33:27):
spotlight them, like it just makesit easier than, Google meet tries,
but they haven't quite figured outhow to make that as seamless as zoom,
where zoom, is all the things thatyou would need to make the space.
And I've used it where we've had likemultiple language channels running, we've
(33:48):
had, people using the transcription andusing, assistive devices like the, type to
text to be able to use the audio channels.
It all works.
And it works where everyone canparticipate using whatever they need
and fully engage in the technology.
(34:09):
And that's what you want, right?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: I've also liked it for that. (34:11):
undefined
I work with a lot of peoplein really rural areas.
We deal with bandwidth issues andwe also deal with what you were
talking about of most people usingdevices, often mobile devices.
So anytime for particularly if I'mworking with a client who serves young
people in rural areas or older adults.
(34:32):
I'll say, let's use zoom becauseto be able to if at a minimum,
they can call into the call it
Thenera Bailey (34:39):
Yeah, that's the
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (34:40):
nothing else.
Thenera Bailey (34:41):
they can see and call in.
And I think that's, again, Teams,Google, great in front of all.
But.
If you are working with a variety ofdiverse needs across like interaction
of how people are going to enterthe space, and you are unsure of
their needs once they get there.
I don't, I have not seen a platform thatis able to mimic the variety of ways,
(35:08):
and from language to accessibility,in that, and I think they continue
to try to do that, and invest inmaking it more accessible, and I think
prioritize accessibility with that,and I really appreciate that with Zoom.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (35:25):
we've talked about a lot of positive
things and opportunities that arecoming up from these technologies.
Are there 1 or 2 concerns or,notes of caution that you would
want to put out there as peopleexplore artificial intelligence.
Thenera Bailey (35:41):
Yeah, I think life with anything are, it learns.
And it's always going toprioritize majority culture.
And I still worry, or I, how areyou able to incorporate the margins?
(36:02):
Is always so I think, so if we think aboutgenerative anything, even like with Google
search, like when we search like doctor,we end up with white men images, right?
And so how do you get AI tounderstand what I'm saying?
(36:23):
write me a story about.
x, y, and z to incorporate aspectsof inclusion into the story.
Yes, they'll learn that by writing withme more and more, hopefully, but I do,
it's incorporating the world into that.
(36:43):
And so my voice isn't going to maybeproject that as much as the world
is going to prioritize that, framingof doctor means white man, right?
And so how do we, how does AI learn howto flip what we understand as norm to
(37:10):
be more inclusive, to be more broad, tobe more thoughtful in the way that the
nuance that we can as humans, right?
I think that's alwaysgoing to be the challenge.
and that We struggle with just alwaysrepresentation matters, thoughts matter.
And so I don't know if you can do that.
(37:31):
And so that will always be the casewhen you're using it, you still are
responsible for developing and Managingand editing your information, right?
that, humans aren't always the best.
(37:52):
what we put in, we get out.
that's always going tobe the issue with it.
I think that's one thing.
but I think, again, I think thereare ways that we can use it for good.
And I think we just have to bethoughtful about where we use it.
And just be mindful, the cat's out the bagtype of thing, like everything can be bad.
(38:15):
Cell phones, computers.
there's pedophiles on devicesand internet, and so it's
nothing comes without evil.
Because
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: usually my arguments (38:26):
undefined
Thenera Bailey (38:27):
right?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (38:27):
the for good space as part of why I started this podcast
is yes, it is capable of evil, whichis why I want more good people with.
good judgment and strong values tobe using it so that it can also learn
from those who are using it for good.
Thenera Bailey (38:43):
Yeah, I just think, humans have that edge of evil always.
we just, we will mess somethingup if given the opportunity.
And I just think we just have to bemindful that's always the possibility.
And so Figuring out the ways that thoseof us that are good are, can use it
positively and just use it in thoseways and find those, good streaks and
(39:09):
then those places where it is beingused for evil, figure out ways to
regulate and get ahead of those spaceslike we do with human trafficking and,
sexual predators and things like that.
I do think that's also it.
can we think of ways to be ahead?
technology also can be super smart people.
(39:29):
So how are the people who create, manage,think about this technology also being
thoughtful about hey, this could be veryexclusionary and racist and horrible.
How are we being thoughtful about this?
This could be used to, cheatthe way through your education.
How are we being thoughtful to, putsafeguards around educational thought
(39:52):
and content that comes from the academy?
Um, that type of thing.
Okay.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (40:01):
1 thing that concerns me is that we don't have a lot of
transparency around what the data was thatmany of the models used to be trained on.
But there's also an interestingargument that I heard around, there's
the lawsuit from the New York Timesagainst OpenAI for using their content.
(40:25):
they bought one subscription to New YorkTimes and then fed all of the content from
New York Times into training the model.
And so New York, or at leastthat's what I've been told.
so New York Times was like, We'resuing you for copyright infringement.
However, there's also an interestingargument to be made of we want
(40:46):
these models to be trained on themost trusted sources available and
the best content that's out there.
So wouldn't we want them to havethe entire archive of the New
York Times as opposed to some guywho has a blog about the news,
Thenera Bailey (41:01):
Definitely don't want the blogger.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (41:02):
Okay.
I do think there's still, there's alot being worked out around, what's
the fair and equitable way to dothat respects, the content creators,
but also doesn't leave these modelssearching for sources of information
that aren't reliable and trusted sources.
Thenera Bailey (41:22):
And also doesn't like make the New York Times money
for the rest of their life becausethat's the whole point of open source.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (41:28):
exactly.
Like they created this as a resourcefor the public to some extent,
Thenera Bailey (41:34):
But like that, I think, that's the challenge is like
in a free market, like we don'tunderstand because we're capitalists.
How do we make money foreverif I give it to you now?
Yeah, and I think that will alwaysbe the problem with open source
content and like something like AI.
We're constantly creating from things.
(41:57):
It's but we can't make money from that.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (42:02):
to bring it back is where I think the opportunity exists
for nonprofits and those doing volunteermovements and such to leverage these tools
because they don't need to make money from
Thenera Bailey (42:13):
Exactly.
I guess I, hey, I don'tknow, but nobody asked.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (42:18):
Yeah.
that's a good full circle moment.
there anything I didn't ask you aboutthat you wanted to make sure to note
Thenera Bailey (42:27):
No, I just think I, I guess I think one of the things that I
would say to nonprofits and organizationsthat are in this space in general is
that don't be scared of tech in generaland make the investment in tech.
I think that's the biggest frustrationand thing that I think I've seen
(42:50):
throughout my entire career.
In this sector is that we are so slowto adopt and it's to our detriment.
That instead of being early adopters,which is what we really should be, we
should be nimble and trying and likejust in and get in when it's free and
(43:12):
they don't know what they're doingand they're beta testing and they are
just like handing it out like candy.
That's time to get in because they don'tknow what they're doing and they'll a
lot of times let you in without havingto pay and then you're grandfathered
in under a paywall and profit.
(43:32):
usually wait until it's so solidand expensive and now they can't
afford it and we need technology.
We are now in a remote culture,a tech culture, a mobile first
culture and nonprofits are stillacting like we're in binders and
(43:54):
print culture and it's frustrating
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (43:58):
X machines.
Thenera Bailey (43:59):
It's like nobody's going to get your fax time.
Nobody's going to take your fax.
Nobody wants to see your fax.
So you need to move into 2024and beyond and be tech first.
And so whatever you need to do asan organization, think tech first.
And make sure that your staff hasthe technology, the devices they
(44:24):
need, that mobile first, the cellphones, the computer at least.
And that you're open to doingthings that are cloud based, that
are app based, and that are nimble,and that you're willing to try.
don't break the computers and get viruses,but be open to trying things like AI, like
the app that comes out, to see if you canimprove your systems and your operations
(44:50):
in ways that build your capacity.
Because a lot of times, we're doingthings the old way because we always have.
And there's faster, quicker, easierways using technology that will make
us be able to meet our needs and ouroutcomes faster and more quickly.
(45:10):
but we're just doing these things in thesevery old school binder, fax machine ways.
Because we're not tech first, and it'ssluggish and slow, and it stops us from
being able to meet our outcomes, and Ithink we're scared of technology, and
(45:34):
go to the conferences, go to the like,little webinars, things that do not
sound like they're for nonprofits at all.
Like the one I was at, that's here'sthe way to learn chat QBT because
you'll learn something that's veryoutside of the box, but might make
you able to meet your outcomes first.
So I really just want to encouragepeople to not be so scared of technology.
(45:57):
So maybe once a year, do a professional,Free webinar for, tech company or from
an app that you think is completelyunassociated with your mission
to just keep yourself tech first.
to really keep you nimble because Ithink that's the biggest detriment I
see and the biggest capacity barrierthat I see in my current work.
(46:23):
With nonprofits is that their operationsare like trudging through mud because
they're not Their technology hasnot been invested in the right ways.
And that's not a money resource,because technology is actually quite
inexpensive right now, because somuch of it is app and cloud based.
You just need a computer and an internetconnection a lot of times, and a lot
(46:46):
of those resources are, Pretty open.
It's just you have toknow how to navigate them.
And that's my, my, my two cents.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (46:53):
Yeah, and a lot of the nonprofits I've talked to are
still paying for old outdated platforms.
Yeah.
Thenera Bailey (47:00):
expensive.
That's the real thing.
They're paying for very expensiveplatforms because that's all they know.
And they can do the same things withless money and be able to redirect those
funds towards program outcomes fast.
if they would just do somethingthat was more mobile first,
(47:21):
tech first, digital first.
and if they spent a littletime doing something that
was out of sight of the box.
And that's how these little nimble,new startups are making it work.
they're not printing and going in someantiquated Salesforce, horrible database.
No offense to Salesforce anddatabases, but just haha.
(47:44):
Exactly.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (47:48):
subscriber.
Uh,
we're going to start calling outsome softwares on this program.
Thenera Bailey (47:57):
So like, and
you're no longer employed, so now
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (48:01):
So.
Um, if listeners want to followyou or learn more about your
work, how can they do that?
Thenera Bailey (48:10):
on all the socials at SISGI group, which is S I S
G I group or at Sonara Bailey,T A T N E R A B A I L E Y.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (48:20):
All right, we'll put that in the show notes too.
Thenera Bailey (48:23):
Yeah.
Cause I've done that very bad.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: from today's episode. (48:24):
undefined
thank you so much for beingwilling to chat with me about this.
And absolutely loved it.
Thenera Bailey (48:31):
This was fun.
Brian AI (48:34):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of AI for
Helpers and Changemakers.
For the show notes and moreinformation about working with
Sharon, visit bloomfacilitation.
com.
If you have a suggestion for whowe should interview, email us
at hello at bloomfacilitation.
com.
And finally, please share thisepisode with someone you think
would find it interesting.
(48:55):
Word of mouth is our best marketing.
Are you not sure how to feel about the way AI is suddenly everywhere?
AI for Helpers and Changemakers isa show for people who want to do
good work and help other people.
Whether you're already using AItools and loving it, or you are
pretty sure that ChatGPT is thefirst sign of our downfall, we want
you to listen in and learn with us.
(00:26):
Your host on this journeyis Sharon Tewksbury Bloom.
For 20 years, she's workedwith helpers and changemakers.
She believes that we're about to seethe biggest changes in our work lives
since the Internet went mainstream.
We're in this together.
Join us as Sharon interviews peoplein different helping professions,
navigate what these new technologiesare doing to and for their work.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (00:48):
Welcome.
Thanks for joining me.
If you wouldn't mind introducingyourself your name and a little bit of.
What you do just as the listenersget to know you, that'd be great.
Thenera Bailey (00:58):
I'm Dr.
Thenera Bailey.
I use she, her pronouns.
I am CEO of the SISGI group.
We are a consulting hybrid.
We're part for profit, part non profit.
Nonprofit consulting group.
We work with a variety of clients, fromnonprofits to for profits on mostly
strategies, things that help you meet youroutcomes better, in areas of consulting
(01:23):
awareness, research and training.
my.
focus is to make the world a littlebit better as an organization,
we're focused on sustainablepractices, whatever that looks like.
And so we try with our consulting tonever have our clients constantly need us.
to help them think about.
How they can build on the work thatwe're doing and to think strategically
(01:47):
in the way that they're thinking.
I think also at the root ofour work is a justice focus.
we believe, most of the institutions,whether that's nonprofits or for profit.
were designed not thinking about includingeveryone, whether that's people with
disabilities, people of color, people,women, that you have to rethink your
(02:13):
organizational structure, your processes.
and then, when it's nonprofits, Thingsthat are fundamental to our core, from
education to health to, the serviceswere not designed to include everyone.
Some were designed to excludepeople from the very beginning.
And when we're trying to operatein 2024 and beyond, a lot of
(02:37):
times we're having to disrupt.
And too often, from a non profitstandpoint, we're just trying to retrofit.
And so a lot of our work is just helpingpeople to think about how do we disrupt?
How do we dismantle?
How do we shift our thinking strategicallyso everyone can be part of it?
(02:58):
How do we think in a waythat brings everyone in?
How do we start to thinkabout, an operating strategic
structure, where every person.
part of our fabric as a countryorganization or institution is
included in the work we do, and notthrough a majority or normalized lens
(03:20):
Is really included, so that I canauthentically show up, however that
may be, as a woman, as a person witha disability, as a person of color, as
an LGBTQ plus person, and be seen andincluded and show up without having
to shift, form, configure myself.
(03:43):
To the standard and the structurethat was never designed for me.
And so that is a lot of the workthat we do, across the country.
we do leadership and management,general organizational development
replication of programs and, I love it.
I've been doing art organizationsince 15 years old and, in the
(04:04):
nonprofit space for decades.
that's a little bit about me.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (04:08):
Let's talk about artificial intelligence and new
technology disrupting our ways of workingor our, ways of relating to each other.
Even when did you first becomeaware of artificial intelligence
Thenera Bailey (04:24):
I think where it was labeled as artificial intelligence
probably the last year or two, I think nowthat I know it better, we've been using it
for a while and didn't know So Alexa andeven search are artificial intelligence.
They're learning from us all the time.
I went to a conference and learned howto use chat CCT about two years ago and
(04:51):
had a formal introduction I think upuntil that point, it was there's this AI
thing out there and just heard all the.
The scary that people were saying,and didn't really know much, I
think about two or three years ago.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (05:05):
what brought you to that conference?
Did you seek that out orhow did you end up there?
Thenera Bailey (05:11):
it was a learning and development conference
because we do a lot of, curriculumdevelopment, in our training division.
AI is a growing space.
In learning and development, whetherhigher ed, work or curriculum and design
for, course design and, training design.
And so it happened to be.
(05:33):
Like, track within the conference.
So it wasn't something I thoughtout just because it was AI.
it just happened to me.
I think if it was up to me,I would run away from AI.
It literally, I think everythingup until that point was all fear.
AI is going to take over, right?
(05:53):
it's doing things in away we can't control.
I think that's the narrative thatI had heard up until that point.
And really my mind after attendingthat session was changed.
It helped me really see thepotential, particularly for small
nonprofits who are understaffed.
(06:16):
to use it for fundraising,marketing and development, when
they need quick, fast moving things.
I can explain more about how I thinkabout that as the conversation goes on.
But I think in that moment, it waslike, okay, I'm going to sit through
this training to know how to betteruse it within my little small business.
(06:38):
because it's part of thislearning and development track.
and it really was like the label ofit was like, how to use this to better
improve your business type of thing.
And.
and how not to fear a I, with some ofthe like takeaways for the session and
literally mind change from after it.
And I think that's the framing thatparticularly for those of us in the
(07:01):
helping fields who are mostly justgetting that narrative that like I
is going to ruin everything we do.
It's going to take away our autonomy.
send out the bot.
some of that's true.
But, there are places where if youknow what you're doing, particularly
for organizations who have limitedresources and like you can't hire a
(07:25):
crafty social media manager who can putout and generate good content for you,
or you're having one of those days whereyou have 18 million things going on and
you just need something to get started.
This is the way to go.
I've learned whichplatform I prefer for what.
And I think that hasalso been really helpful.
(07:47):
And I think that has been a learningthat has come from it for me.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (07:53):
I thought it was interesting when you talked about
disrupting and dismantling systems.
I hear a lot of fear around AIdisrupting the ways we're doing things.
And for me, I'm thinking, Well, let'snot assume that's a bad thing, like
some things need to be disrupted.
Some things need to be dismantled.
(08:13):
So I think sometimes themainstream narrative can be,
this is a dangerous technology.
It's disrupting things.
But then I often talk to smallnonprofits or things that say, you
didn't have resources and powerand the ability to get things done.
And this is disrupting the technologyin a way that actually allows you to
(08:35):
have access to expertise and resourcesthat used to only be available to
larger organizations or systems.
Thenera Bailey (08:44):
I think the only way I had heard about AI being used
was college kids cheating on papers,this is going to ruin higher ed.
I was coming at it from thatnarrative how are we going to know
anybody knows anything anymore?
I hadn't thought why would I need it?
I'm not writing a degree.
I don't need to cheat on a paper.
Like what?
Where would be my usefor a full narrative?
(09:08):
And so to talk a little bitmore about like how a smaller
space where we would use it.
One of the prompts it gave was or thein the workshop he talked about if
you just needed a way to summarizevery quickly notes from a meeting.
for those of us wholike consultants or sit.
(09:30):
In tons of meetings, I think of myclients who, are, administrative
assistants in a nonprofit thathas like 12 meetings in a day.
And that admin staff are like, justtrying to keep their head above water.
And where these like otter programsor different, or chat GPT or Microsoft
(09:54):
copilot, can you summarize these notes?
Or can you transcribe the Zoom?
Or can you just that littleamount of saving of time that is
a commodity you can't replace?
For those of us who don't makea ton of money in non profit,
time is something that we reallyneed to value a little bit more.
(10:16):
That's not cheating on a paper.
That is valuable for me, that was mindblowing I didn't think about volunteer
boards, Getting a note summary quicklyafter the meeting, how quickly that
will move movements forward, right?
Like when you're trying to createchange, the ability to get the notes out
(10:36):
quickly, sometimes that's the biggestimpediment to progress that happens.
Someone can't take the notes andthey're just so busy that you just
never know what's happening next.
no one wrote it down.
if someone can transcribe the zoommeeting automatically and everyone
gets it immediately after, likethat keeps progress moving forward.
(10:59):
that's that kind of disruption ofthe system that's a quick answer.
small changes where AI can really havea benefit or like the social media
things where like you have a wonderfulpicture from an event, but you are
not the creative person in my company.
I am.
I come up with all the strategy.
I am very problem solving, but wedon't have a wonderful picture.
(11:22):
I have nothing to say.
Oh, cute.
And after a while, he's like, howmany times do you say great event?
Love having everyone there, right?
And it's you can throw thatpicture in and have it come up
with some neat ways to say it.
If you don't like it, you can say,try again, try again, try again.
And it can come up withsomething until it's done.
(11:42):
Kind of gets it and it learns and startsto tell the voice of your organization.
Now that doesn't mean I want to take thejobs of all the wonderful marketing staff
and the folks that are coming throughcollege now who are probably panicking,
Oh no, they're going to take all our jobs.
But for the organization who wasnever going to be able to afford
that person, This is a great way tobe able to compete in that space.
(12:07):
And I think that's thepeople who we're talking to.
We're not talking to the bigorganization who has the budget.
If you have the budget, you shouldnot be in chat, GBT making this up.
And I think that's the part where Iwant to be really clear that if you
have the resources, use the talentthat you have, I don't think chat GBT
(12:28):
should be a replacement for humans.
But if you don't have it, it'sa good and valuable resource for
people who are trying to wear so manyhats that none of those hats fit.
for someone like me, not a creative,it allows me to have a bit of creative
talent or occasionally a summary talentor an administrative, and like ability
(12:53):
to get those administrative tasks whereI don't have the time to summarize the
notes from a client meeting quickly.
and for smaller organizations where it isall hands on deck, allow you to be robust.
quick and nimble, in ways thatmaybe you would not have the
capacity to do that if you did nothave access to some, artificial
(13:15):
intelligence resources, in ways.
And so being really thoughtful aboutthe ones that you can use and those
that will be most helpful to you.
Don't just try every trick andevery pony, but using the ones
that help you, like transcription,like summaries where it's helpful.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (13:31):
I've surprised people by saying since
I started using AI tools, I hireda new part time team member.
I hired a, marketing assistant.
For 5 to 8 hours a week, because in thepast for me to set up enough work for them
to do and to supervise enough work, itjust didn't make sense for a small part
(13:54):
time position, like a 5 to 8 hours a week.
But now that I've been able toempower them to use AI tools.
The amount they get done in 5 to 8 hoursmakes the ROI worth it for me to hire
someone and train and onboard them.
And so suddenly they're working, this isa good extra little side hustle for them.
(14:16):
And they're able to learn fun, new things.
we are now producing podcast episodesand YouTube videos, creating quite
a bit in a small amount of timeby leveraging different tools.
Thenera Bailey (14:29):
Yeah.
I think it's being thoughtful.
with all technology, I remember startingto see, early and being like, we're gonna
be this first organization and peoplebeing who operates remotely in 2011?
that was not heard of.
And we leverage technology in waysthat, People didn't back then.
(14:51):
Then the pandemic hit and everybodythought, Oh, that makes sense, the
reality is you use technology in waysthat make sense for your organization.
not every technology worksfor your organization.
you have to be really thoughtfulabout the ways you use technology.
for instance, we are a Googleorganization internally.
(15:11):
We use Google email.
slide thoughts to pack because it allowsa lot of collaboration internally.
We use Google meet for internal Meeting,but I don't use Google for clients
because it makes it difficult for them
So we use zoom to meet with individualsoutside of our organization.
(15:34):
We, of course, move into Microsoft to it.
Share, even though I'm aMicrosoft fan, I'm an Apple girl.
Sorry.
and so I think both of us are saying,even with our AI, like it's deciding
the right tool for the right thing.
And I think sometimes when people thinkabout technology, they're like, this
person uses that, so I'm going to use it.
(15:56):
it's not that.
And I found with.
Regardless of what I've chosenfor technology, always finding the
right thing for your organization.
And I think too oftenorganizations are like, we bought
teams, but we're using teams.
he's hot.
don't just use teams just becauseyou are a Microsoft company.
Like teams is great internally, butteams is not the best for collaborating
(16:21):
With external stakeholders.
maybe with your AI tools, think aboutWhat are the best things for creating
social media content and marketingwhen you're doing, content on camera,
but I want to up my marketing game.
these are marketing AI tools.
And, but this, these are the tools thatI really use because I'm trying to build.
(16:42):
My research, right?
We do a lot of research.
And so what I've started to use is AIsometimes just to get my thoughts were
like, these are a whole bunch of notesI took and they are gobbledygook are
like, they were, I was listening tosomeone, they didn't quite say words.
I was trying to typewhile they were talking.
I said, turn it into asummary of two paragraphs.
(17:06):
Of what this person was saying,and I'll use it in that way,
there's some privacy concerns.
Sometimes you want to think about that.
which platform would you use in that way?
it's, I think the biggest thing is takingyour time to determine what's right.
And even like Grammarly, people have beenusing Grammarly for forever and didn't
(17:28):
really think about that's AI, right?
Knowing you've been using it, butpicking the right tools and taking
the time to really discover andmaybe testing a little, right?
And not just adding AI because thisorganization had a really good time
with this and it worked great forthem, but really taking the time
to say, what does our team need?
(17:49):
What is the capacity that ourorganization needs, in talent, in skills?
Particularly because individualshave different skills.
People have different needs withtechnology, their ability and
comfort with technology, and theirspeed at like understanding things.
and then get additional training.
(18:10):
Like that Workshop on Child TBT YouTubechannels and gurus folks like you, Sharon,
who will lead workshops and informationfrom a perspective that makes sense.
you want to hear from people who are notgoing to talk about it from, a super geeky
tech Space but like from a non profitspace, to tell you how to use it So I
(18:33):
think that was really helpful for me orlike I went to a co pilot because i'm
not microsoft fan So I went to a co pilotworkshop and I actually love co pilot.
It's the only Microsoft platform I like
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (18:45):
I think this is so important, what you're saying
about, how do these organizationsfigure out what technology to
use and how they're gonna use it.
You know what I heard you saying was like.
First, get clear about what youneed the technology to do, is
this an internal tool or is thiscollaborating with stakeholders?
what do you actually need andthen understand your capacity?
(19:09):
we work with a lot of nonprofits whoare using a lot of volunteer leaders,
and they have varying levels of comfortwith technology and quite a few times.
I've had them try to use SharePointor use teams or things and those.
pretty high bar of
Thenera Bailey (19:26):
It
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (19:27):
learning curve, and I'm like, you
could use something way easier
Thenera Bailey (19:30):
way simpler.
Yes, or they can be like, thisis what we use internally,
because we are at work every day.
And we sit at a computer every day and Iso, yes, thank you for naming that because
so often I see that with clients whowork with volunteers and it's you forget,
especially older volunteers or volunteerswho are like, not who are mobile.
(19:52):
And we have to realize we're ata mobile point in society where
most people are interacting with.
Data and information on theirdevices, not at a computer.
So for those of us who are like, atour desk, when we interact with things,
we're sending things to people who aregoing to interact with them on a device.
And then we're like, why is it this large?
(20:13):
cause I've seen it on ascreen that is three inches.
And you are looking at a computer andseven screens and your wonderful setup.
And you're like, don't yousee this beautiful thing?
Fill out 25 sheets and interact with it.
you need to think mobile first.
You need to be more mindful.
AI can help you in looking at it inmultiple ways where you can try to
(20:37):
find, platforms that have that differentviewpoint, where if it doesn't work
in mobile, in desktop, in tablet, inthe different views, because, So often
you're right, like we think everybody'sinteracting with it or we think of it
from our work space and people are notinteracting, particularly volunteers.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (20:59):
Yeah,
Thenera Bailey (21:00):
just trying to do it on the go between picking up their
kid or running to the pharmacy.
And we need to be thinking like, howcan I make this as easy as possible?
How can I make it a link?
they get this document totheir phone quickly, easier.
not something they have to dig throughDropbox or SharePoint those tools are
great for us, but for volunteers, it needsto be something really simple to find a
(21:24):
website or something that they can justgo back to mobile first and digital first.
And again, that can be ifyou can't think that way.
Maybe AI can help you think through,what's the easiest way to make
this accessible for a volunteer?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (21:41):
what are some favorite tools you've discovered
and what are you using them for?
Thenera Bailey (21:48):
I started with ChatTV Team.
because that was the oneI took the class with.
then I went to a session Microsoftheld, and I like Copilot better.
I use Copilot as my primary,for text based stuff.
It does not do well with imagesand makes nightmare things.
I don't know what that is.
(22:09):
Um,
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (22:10):
clarify for the listeners in case people aren't
familiar copilot is similar to chat GPTa generative AI large language model.
It's a little assistant for you,but it's built into, it's built by
Microsoft and then the Microsoft tools.
Is that fair to say?
Thenera Bailey (22:27):
yeah, and I like that also because I felt at least
for us, when you have a Microsoftsubscription, it took away the cost too.
it, it seemed like they were reallyspending a lot of time with it, and
I got good results with it once Isigned in and started to learn with it.
So I've been liking Copilot more recently.
we still have the chat TBT, sothose two I go back and forth
(22:50):
with for language based things.
for transcription, I use Otter sometimes.
And I use Zoom's transcription for that.
I use Grammarly, because, I send alot of documents and want to check.
(23:17):
And make sure it's overly sensitive.
it hates my voice.
so I'm constantly like,no, I'm not changing that.
I use Grammarly to check my grammar.
It's embedded in my email.
I do have the app as well.
(23:38):
So,
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (23:39):
And I'm just going to clarify that Otter is a note
taking app, and so it will transcribemeeting notes and summarize meeting notes.
Personally, I use Firefly'sAI for my meeting note
Thenera Bailey (23:51):
Do you like it?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (23:52):
I love it.
Yeah, it's really great.
if you pay for the business plan, it willdo video recordings of your meetings.
Allows me to send not just the notes,but also the recording to someone,
Thenera Bailey (24:06):
Send that.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (24:07):
Yeah.
Thenera Bailey (24:08):
sounds better because I'm not a huge fan of Honor.
It's just the one recommended to me.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (24:13):
what
Thenera Bailey (24:15):
I'm doing that.
It's the only one I was given.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (24:18):
I was told is, I think Otter was
1 of the 1st ones available.
a lot of people jumped on andwe're excited because of what it
did, but now there's competitors
Thenera Bailey (24:28):
yeah.
that's how I felt it's clunky to me.
And I don't use it a lot, I mostlyuse Zoom and I'll just jump in there.
I don't transcribe a lot becauseI'm more of a hand note taker.
And then I do, this isn't really an AIthing, really, I guess it's I don't know.
I use Notability as my note taker it hasa recording feature it shows where your
(24:53):
notes pop up, it's a note taking app.
there's probably some AI built inbecause everything's throwing AI in
right now, but Notability is the app.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: things I like about Fireflies. (25:02):
undefined
I have so many meetings and I have2 different businesses and so I lose
track, like we've we do a planning callbefore a workshop and we brainstorm
how we're going to handle it.
But then 2 weeks go by I'mgetting ready for the workshop.
I forget what we came up with.
Thenera Bailey (25:20):
I
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (25:20):
I can pull up that meeting in the fireflies
site, and then you can use controlF, to search the transcript for a
Thenera Bailey (25:31):
huh.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (25:31):
if I remember, what was I going to do for visuals?
I can search the word visuals andrewatch that part of the meeting,
or read the transcript, but I'verewatched our own meetings for specific
sections where I'm like, oh, right.
That was the idea we had
Thenera Bailey (25:50):
you can record any platform, or have your meetings in Zoom.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (25:53):
no, that's why we switched to fireflies because
we're like, you were internally.
We meet on Google meet externally.
We meet with zoom and then we havesome clients when we use teams
and fireflies is 1 of the onlyplatforms that could record in all
Thenera Bailey (26:08):
Oh, I love that.
Send me that.
We want fireflies.
a good example.
Yeah.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (26:14):
yeah, the other thing I've done with it is I
do strategy sessions with my clients.
And so sometimes during the strategysession, they'll ask a question that
I'm like, Oh, that's a great question.
I should probably writea blog post about that.
Thenera Bailey (26:28):
then you can go back.
You're
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (26:30):
I'll actually throw the transcript into chat GPT say,
please suggest three blog posts basedon this strategy session outline them
then I'll come back and write them.
Thenera Bailey (26:43):
good.
you're much further it.
I'm not using AI in thatway, but that's smart.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (26:51):
So I wanted to jump to the transcripts because
I know you have experience withinclusion and people with disabilities.
my first job in nonprofitswas working for a.
Nonprofit helping people whoare blind or print disabled
and I remember how hard it was.
That was back in 2007 our entirenonprofit existed because it was
(27:12):
so hard for someone who was blindto get access to information.
Now, with the fact that all of theseare large language models, one thing
that has been really exciting for meto see is that almost every single
piece of content is being transcribed,whether you want it to or not.
it's like a default setting now.
It's we're going to transcribe this.
(27:34):
Whereas it used to, I had topay like a lot of money to get
transcriptions done of recordings.
Now it's a built in featureto a lot of technology.
And so the way that's makingthings more accessible to people
who are print disabled or who areblind is Completely revolutionary.
(27:55):
I'm curious if you've seen anythingelse along those lines in terms
of ways that this technology ischanging the space of inclusion
and making things more accessible.
Thenera Bailey (28:08):
yeah, I think, the ability to change things into
languages, has definitely, that'snot really a disability thing, but
it's definitely a language inclusion.
We work with also a lot ofclients who are dealing with
folks who are not English only.
And so the ability to use AI, it's notas accurate, but to also translate.
(28:33):
has been a really good.
It helps in just getting it startedto be able to, of course, transcribe.
We do a lot of our,asynchronous or LMS courses.
We try to make them accessible.
And so a lot of times videos and,content needs to be transcribed.
And so it helps us to be able to be like.
(28:56):
Hey, throw this document in andthen we can have the transcription.
yeah, it definitely helps tomake those things move faster.
helps us to be able to check things.
I think there's also, because there area lot more, and I think, you can now
do on, and that's another one, like onyour phone, there's like speech to text
(29:17):
and other, tools that are AI generated.
we have a bunch of, Resources and I'mblanking on them now that we've done an
accessibility workshop that are just builtinto your phone or built in resources.
you can check color contrast and, inyour, PowerPoint and others that are
(29:38):
in some ways a form of AI to check, ifyou're meeting accessibility guidelines.
In the things that you are creating,whether that's a Microsoft document or
a PowerPoint deck or a keynote workshopto make sure that they are accessible,
adding the, alt text on images.
(30:00):
Some of those things are now you canauto create them through AI, so that
you're not having to always sync them.
that they'll auto generate based upon theimage that's there, which I think saves
time and also stops people who don'thave those, disabilities from forgetting.
(30:21):
And I think that's just more inclusivebecause I think people who don't have
those experiences tend to just forget.
Yeah, um.
not see the priority in includingthem, often, particularly with social
media tends to be very exclusionary.
(30:41):
And so we tend to use colors wherepeople can't see, we tend to forget to
do alt text in our images, it's alsobecause they don't live very long.
And it's I'm just going toquickly throw this up there.
And then nobody who needs the alttext or is using a screen reader.
It's like this big blank.
Instagram.
So I think having things and usingtools that are just automatically
(31:05):
creating those things for you helpto make everything more accessible.
And the more AI is just generating thatfor you, it's more naturally inclusive.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (31:17):
Absolutely.
I completely agree.
And I think that, there are some toolsthat are literally using AI to do it.
There's other things where, becausethey're going to put the information
into AI, they are now, Designingthe tool so that, it can create a
transcription or that it can, there'sways that the whole technology industry
(31:40):
is reorienting itself because of AI,which has the sort of unintended benefit
of making things more accessible.
I don't think that was thepoint, but I think that's been an
Thenera Bailey (31:53):
no.
And I think also, when I thinkwe've had interns for years who
have, uses assistive technology.
And I think a lot of that definitelyaligns with aspects of AI.
And I think AI has learned fromthe assistive technology space
ways to benefit from that.
And things like speech to text,a lot of that comes from like
(32:18):
what we're learning now with AI.
So I think, eventually we're going to seethis kind of merging of the world where.
People who are using assistivetechnology also benefit from some of
the learnings from AI, and AI benefitsfrom the people who are using assistive
technology, and, hopefully it justmakes things more, more inclusive
(32:40):
and more naturally integrated so thateverything's more, accessible generally.
like one of the things I reallylike about Zoom as, as they are.
And one, one of the reasons why it's mygo-to for all external or event-based
presentations is it is the moreinclusive of the web-based platform.
(33:07):
So it does have like languagechannels, it does have the captioning,
like automatically it does have.
So there's just ways that itthinks about how can I make this.
As accessible as possible.
So if you're using sign languageinterpreters, like you can automatically
(33:27):
spotlight them, like it just makesit easier than, Google meet tries,
but they haven't quite figured outhow to make that as seamless as zoom,
where zoom, is all the things thatyou would need to make the space.
And I've used it where we've had likemultiple language channels running, we've
(33:48):
had, people using the transcription andusing, assistive devices like the, type to
text to be able to use the audio channels.
It all works.
And it works where everyone canparticipate using whatever they need
and fully engage in the technology.
(34:09):
And that's what you want, right?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: I've also liked it for that. (34:11):
undefined
I work with a lot of peoplein really rural areas.
We deal with bandwidth issues andwe also deal with what you were
talking about of most people usingdevices, often mobile devices.
So anytime for particularly if I'mworking with a client who serves young
people in rural areas or older adults.
(34:32):
I'll say, let's use zoom becauseto be able to if at a minimum,
they can call into the call it
Thenera Bailey (34:39):
Yeah, that's the
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (34:40):
nothing else.
Thenera Bailey (34:41):
they can see and call in.
And I think that's, again, Teams,Google, great in front of all.
But.
If you are working with a variety ofdiverse needs across like interaction
of how people are going to enterthe space, and you are unsure of
their needs once they get there.
I don't, I have not seen a platform thatis able to mimic the variety of ways,
(35:08):
and from language to accessibility,in that, and I think they continue
to try to do that, and invest inmaking it more accessible, and I think
prioritize accessibility with that,and I really appreciate that with Zoom.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (35:25):
we've talked about a lot of positive
things and opportunities that arecoming up from these technologies.
Are there 1 or 2 concerns or,notes of caution that you would
want to put out there as peopleexplore artificial intelligence.
Thenera Bailey (35:41):
Yeah, I think life with anything are, it learns.
And it's always going toprioritize majority culture.
And I still worry, or I, how areyou able to incorporate the margins?
(36:02):
Is always so I think, so if we think aboutgenerative anything, even like with Google
search, like when we search like doctor,we end up with white men images, right?
And so how do you get AI tounderstand what I'm saying?
(36:23):
write me a story about.
x, y, and z to incorporate aspectsof inclusion into the story.
Yes, they'll learn that by writing withme more and more, hopefully, but I do,
it's incorporating the world into that.
(36:43):
And so my voice isn't going to maybeproject that as much as the world
is going to prioritize that, framingof doctor means white man, right?
And so how do we, how does AI learn howto flip what we understand as norm to
(37:10):
be more inclusive, to be more broad, tobe more thoughtful in the way that the
nuance that we can as humans, right?
I think that's alwaysgoing to be the challenge.
and that We struggle with just alwaysrepresentation matters, thoughts matter.
And so I don't know if you can do that.
(37:31):
And so that will always be the casewhen you're using it, you still are
responsible for developing and Managingand editing your information, right?
that, humans aren't always the best.
(37:52):
what we put in, we get out.
that's always going tobe the issue with it.
I think that's one thing.
but I think, again, I think thereare ways that we can use it for good.
And I think we just have to bethoughtful about where we use it.
And just be mindful, the cat's out the bagtype of thing, like everything can be bad.
(38:15):
Cell phones, computers.
there's pedophiles on devicesand internet, and so it's
nothing comes without evil.
Because
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: usually my arguments (38:26):
undefined
Thenera Bailey (38:27):
right?
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (38:27):
the for good space as part of why I started this podcast
is yes, it is capable of evil, whichis why I want more good people with.
good judgment and strong values tobe using it so that it can also learn
from those who are using it for good.
Thenera Bailey (38:43):
Yeah, I just think, humans have that edge of evil always.
we just, we will mess somethingup if given the opportunity.
And I just think we just have to bemindful that's always the possibility.
And so Figuring out the ways that thoseof us that are good are, can use it
positively and just use it in thoseways and find those, good streaks and
(39:09):
then those places where it is beingused for evil, figure out ways to
regulate and get ahead of those spaceslike we do with human trafficking and,
sexual predators and things like that.
I do think that's also it.
can we think of ways to be ahead?
technology also can be super smart people.
(39:29):
So how are the people who create, manage,think about this technology also being
thoughtful about hey, this could be veryexclusionary and racist and horrible.
How are we being thoughtful about this?
This could be used to, cheatthe way through your education.
How are we being thoughtful to, putsafeguards around educational thought
(39:52):
and content that comes from the academy?
Um, that type of thing.
Okay.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (40:01):
1 thing that concerns me is that we don't have a lot of
transparency around what the data was thatmany of the models used to be trained on.
But there's also an interestingargument that I heard around, there's
the lawsuit from the New York Timesagainst OpenAI for using their content.
(40:25):
they bought one subscription to New YorkTimes and then fed all of the content from
New York Times into training the model.
And so New York, or at leastthat's what I've been told.
so New York Times was like, We'resuing you for copyright infringement.
However, there's also an interestingargument to be made of we want
(40:46):
these models to be trained on themost trusted sources available and
the best content that's out there.
So wouldn't we want them to havethe entire archive of the New
York Times as opposed to some guywho has a blog about the news,
Thenera Bailey (41:01):
Definitely don't want the blogger.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (41:02):
Okay.
I do think there's still, there's alot being worked out around, what's
the fair and equitable way to dothat respects, the content creators,
but also doesn't leave these modelssearching for sources of information
that aren't reliable and trusted sources.
Thenera Bailey (41:22):
And also doesn't like make the New York Times money
for the rest of their life becausethat's the whole point of open source.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (41:28):
exactly.
Like they created this as a resourcefor the public to some extent,
Thenera Bailey (41:34):
But like that, I think, that's the challenge is like
in a free market, like we don'tunderstand because we're capitalists.
How do we make money foreverif I give it to you now?
Yeah, and I think that will alwaysbe the problem with open source
content and like something like AI.
We're constantly creating from things.
(41:57):
It's but we can't make money from that.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (42:02):
to bring it back is where I think the opportunity exists
for nonprofits and those doing volunteermovements and such to leverage these tools
because they don't need to make money from
Thenera Bailey (42:13):
Exactly.
I guess I, hey, I don'tknow, but nobody asked.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (42:18):
Yeah.
that's a good full circle moment.
there anything I didn't ask you aboutthat you wanted to make sure to note
Thenera Bailey (42:27):
No, I just think I, I guess I think one of the things that I
would say to nonprofits and organizationsthat are in this space in general is
that don't be scared of tech in generaland make the investment in tech.
I think that's the biggest frustrationand thing that I think I've seen
(42:50):
throughout my entire career.
In this sector is that we are so slowto adopt and it's to our detriment.
That instead of being early adopters,which is what we really should be, we
should be nimble and trying and likejust in and get in when it's free and
(43:12):
they don't know what they're doingand they're beta testing and they are
just like handing it out like candy.
That's time to get in because they don'tknow what they're doing and they'll a
lot of times let you in without havingto pay and then you're grandfathered
in under a paywall and profit.
(43:32):
usually wait until it's so solidand expensive and now they can't
afford it and we need technology.
We are now in a remote culture,a tech culture, a mobile first
culture and nonprofits are stillacting like we're in binders and
(43:54):
print culture and it's frustrating
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (43:58):
X machines.
Thenera Bailey (43:59):
It's like nobody's going to get your fax time.
Nobody's going to take your fax.
Nobody wants to see your fax.
So you need to move into 2024and beyond and be tech first.
And so whatever you need to do asan organization, think tech first.
And make sure that your staff hasthe technology, the devices they
(44:24):
need, that mobile first, the cellphones, the computer at least.
And that you're open to doingthings that are cloud based, that
are app based, and that are nimble,and that you're willing to try.
don't break the computers and get viruses,but be open to trying things like AI, like
the app that comes out, to see if you canimprove your systems and your operations
(44:50):
in ways that build your capacity.
Because a lot of times, we're doingthings the old way because we always have.
And there's faster, quicker, easierways using technology that will make
us be able to meet our needs and ouroutcomes faster and more quickly.
(45:10):
but we're just doing these things in thesevery old school binder, fax machine ways.
Because we're not tech first, and it'ssluggish and slow, and it stops us from
being able to meet our outcomes, and Ithink we're scared of technology, and
(45:34):
go to the conferences, go to the like,little webinars, things that do not
sound like they're for nonprofits at all.
Like the one I was at, that's here'sthe way to learn chat QBT because
you'll learn something that's veryoutside of the box, but might make
you able to meet your outcomes first.
So I really just want to encouragepeople to not be so scared of technology.
(45:57):
So maybe once a year, do a professional,Free webinar for, tech company or from
an app that you think is completelyunassociated with your mission
to just keep yourself tech first.
to really keep you nimble because Ithink that's the biggest detriment I
see and the biggest capacity barrierthat I see in my current work.
(46:23):
With nonprofits is that their operationsare like trudging through mud because
they're not Their technology hasnot been invested in the right ways.
And that's not a money resource,because technology is actually quite
inexpensive right now, because somuch of it is app and cloud based.
You just need a computer and an internetconnection a lot of times, and a lot
(46:46):
of those resources are, Pretty open.
It's just you have toknow how to navigate them.
And that's my, my, my two cents.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (46:53):
Yeah, and a lot of the nonprofits I've talked to are
still paying for old outdated platforms.
Yeah.
Thenera Bailey (47:00):
expensive.
That's the real thing.
They're paying for very expensiveplatforms because that's all they know.
And they can do the same things withless money and be able to redirect those
funds towards program outcomes fast.
if they would just do somethingthat was more mobile first,
(47:21):
tech first, digital first.
and if they spent a littletime doing something that
was out of sight of the box.
And that's how these little nimble,new startups are making it work.
they're not printing and going in someantiquated Salesforce, horrible database.
No offense to Salesforce anddatabases, but just haha.
(47:44):
Exactly.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (47:48):
subscriber.
Uh,
we're going to start calling outsome softwares on this program.
Thenera Bailey (47:57):
So like, and
you're no longer employed, so now
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (48:01):
So.
Um, if listeners want to followyou or learn more about your
work, how can they do that?
Thenera Bailey (48:10):
on all the socials at SISGI group, which is S I S
G I group or at Sonara Bailey,T A T N E R A B A I L E Y.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom (48:20):
All right, we'll put that in the show notes too.
Thenera Bailey (48:23):
Yeah.
Cause I've done that very bad.
Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: from today's episode. (48:24):
undefined
thank you so much for beingwilling to chat with me about this.
And absolutely loved it.
Thenera Bailey (48:31):
This was fun.
Brian AI (48:34):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of AI for
Helpers and Changemakers.
For the show notes and moreinformation about working with
Sharon, visit bloomfacilitation.
com.
If you have a suggestion for whowe should interview, email us
at hello at bloomfacilitation.
com.
And finally, please share thisepisode with someone you think
would find it interesting.
(48:55):
Word of mouth is our best marketing.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.