December 4, 2024 • 45 mins
Angela Hoyt is a consultant in the Employment Services field in Canada. In this interview, she shares what it has been like to try to keep up with advancements in technology like chatGPT and figure out how to use these tools in her business.
Angela and Sharon met through the AI Tinkerer's club, an international group of facilitators and consultants who are learning how to use AI tools through experimentation.
They examine the history of changes in technology and how these changes have impacted the role of facilitating education for adults in the workplace. How does the role of a facilitator or consultant change when information and expertise becomes easier to access?
Angela also reflects on what she's learned about the role of discipline in boundaries in her own learning journey with AI.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Angela Hoyt's Company: Evolution Group
- Angela Hoyt's LinkedIn Profile
- Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom's LinkedIn Profile
- AI Tinkerer's Club
- ChatGPT
- Elise Keith's group, Meeting Innovation Community
- Stormz
- David Allen's Getting Things Done
- Piccles
- Set Boundaries Deck
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian AI (00:05):
Are you not sure how to feel about the way AI is suddenly everywhere?
AI for Helpers and Changemakers isa show for people who want to do
good work and help other people.
Whether you're already using AItools and loving it, or you are
pretty sure that ChatGPT is thefirst sign of our downfall, we want
you to listen in and learn with us.
(00:26):
Your host on this journeyis Sharon Tewksbury Bloom.
For 20 years, she's workedwith helpers and changemakers.
She believes that we're about to seethe biggest changes in our work lives
since the Internet went mainstream.
We're in this together.
Join us as Sharon interviews peoplein different helping professions.
Navigate what these new technologiesare doing to and for their work.
Sharon (00:47):
Excellent.
And you and I met throughthe AI Tinkerer's Club.
How did you find out about theAI Tinkerer's Club and how long
have you been part of that?
Angela (00:57):
I found out through the, Meeting Innovation Community, Elise
Keith's group, and it was about,again, it could have been last week.
Sharon, it could havebeen like, five years ago.
I don't know anymore.
but Alex from the Tinkerers Clubwas doing an experiment, and I
(01:18):
don't know how I found out aboutit, but the experiment was storms.
Sharon (01:24):
His,
Angela (01:24):
online, collaboration, facilitation, a mural kind of thing.
I didn't really realizewhat experiment I was in.
when I heard it was happening again,I signed up because they were doing
it for other parts of the world.
there I was at two in the morning.
the experiment was storms Alex wassaying, let's brainstorm on this
(01:46):
board, the question was, what are wegoing to do with our lives when we.
Are only working three or four days a weekwhat happens to loneliness for seniors?
what kind of epidemics arerecreating when we're working
with three and four days a week.
So Alex first took us through kindof the, let's use our own brains to
(02:08):
brainstorm and we had the little stickynotes and we're adding our ideas.
And now he's showing ushow to move things around.
and so again, I'm thinking the experience.
I'm not realizing thattechnology is the experiment.
And so then he started using the,showing us the AI function in the tool
(02:29):
and how in the software and how you canmarry the human with the technology.
And that's where I got really excitedIt is a way to complement what I'm
doing, not to replace what I'm doing.
So, like I said, it was so excitingfor me using Storms, and I'm very hands
(02:50):
on, which is why I love the Tinkerersgroup, that's why I went to the next.
the next experiment with Alex I wantedto use the tool about a week later
it was really funny 'cause I waslearning all these little tools and
like this AI stuff is really cool.
So for my business one day Ithought, I love show and tell.
So I'm going to do a show andshare on the AI tools that I have
(03:13):
learned about in the last two weeksand went on LinkedIn and said.
Anyone interested and I hadabout 10 people on there.
Well, I had learned it like 2 weeksbefore and was feeling like quite a
superstar with the, the different didn'thave to even look up what AI meant and
(03:35):
teaching people when I was planning thatsession, that little show and share.
I was trying to figure out how to setup storms because there's like all
these steps that you can do from, youknow, diverging to converging and Alex.
I was writing and saying,what do I do about this?
And he said, do you wantto hop on the line with me?
(03:57):
So in half an hour, he setup a Storms session for me,
which I did a half hour later.
And that's what I, it's making me looksmarter, and I'm actually feeling smarter
because it is, it is really expanding.
it's something I've really glommedonto and I'm excited about.
Sharon (04:20):
I have multiple threads I want to pull on there.
Before I forget I want to go backand start with an introduction.
you're a businesswoman.
in Canada.
working in supporting employment servicesfor someone listening who has no idea
what kind of field do you work in?
And what kind of thingsyou help people with?
Angela (04:43):
Okay, so the field I work in is community employment services, workforce
development, career development, andI work with organizations that support
job seekers who are distant fromthe labor market and who are at risk
of Long term unemployment or neveremployment and so the organizations
(05:11):
are set up to ensure that the peoplethat want to work and we're talking
about people with disabilities andnewcomers to the country and people have
criminal histories or their own socialassistance, you know, these people that
are kind of We call marginalized orbarriered or equity seeking deserving
groups that there are people thatwant to work and aren't working and
(05:37):
I work with organizations on how to.
bridge the gap from job seeker tothe employer, not by using resumes
and interviews and job boards by, butby using, by relationship selling by
engaging employers to look at talentpools they've never considered before.
(06:01):
And there's a lot of perceptions aroundthose groups of people that employers,
maybe you're uncomfortable with hiring.
But there's also perceptions thatemployers have about the services
and and is this a government programthat's going to waste my time and
I've had bad experiences with.
So my work with organizations ishow do you set up the, the model
(06:24):
to ensure that the people thatneed the most support get it?
because that's an issue where sometimesthe people that need the least
support get all the support, whetherit's subsidies or staff support or.
how do we make sure the people that can'tfind a job on their own are supported.
I work with leaders, teams, dotraining, consulting, coaching.
Sharon (06:49):
One of the thoughts that inspired me to start this series was
the idea that we're running out oftime to know what it means to be human.
As we use artificial intelligence andtechnology more it helps us get clear
about the uniquely human experiences orways to bring more humanity into our work.
(07:14):
so I hear you saying in your work, youbuild relationships with employers help
people recognize and overcome barriers,biases, past prejudices, hear people's
stories see, different perspectives.
do you agree with that?
And are there other things thatcome to mind in terms of what's
uniquely human in the work you do
Angela (07:36):
my work is with service providers job seekers and employers.
And the,
the solution, that I see from a policyperspective and where government
is spending money, I cannot tellyou how many job boards are funded
in this province, in Canada.
(08:00):
and I see it all over, all overthe place, all over the world.
It's this like, we just need a better,better tool for employers to find people.
You know, everyone's going to uploadtheir resume and then by magic,
you know, employers are going tosee these and they're not going to.
do what they do on Tinder andswipe whatever left or right you
(08:22):
go, they're going to actuallywant to talk to these people.
But, that is not how people get jobs.
People get jobs through relationships.
sometimes you don't have relationships.
Sharon (08:36):
Okay.
Angela (08:36):
You know, you're, you don't, and, or, sometimes you have people
in your life that no one's working.
So how am I supposed to tap into mynetwork where nobody I know is working?
Maybe people don't want me working.
Maybe I'm new to thiscommunity or whatever.
And I think this is where in my work.
(08:59):
It is about bringing that human partin there, that if we have credibility
as humans, if we are connectors, ifI have relationships with employers.
if they see me as credible, and Ibelieve it, then they're going to see
the people I'm recommending as credible.
And that doesn't meanI'm overselling people.
(09:21):
It's like, you know what?
You say you need this, thisperson has these strengths, do
you want to give them a whirl?
I don't see AI or technologyis going to support me.
Technology can support and, youknow, understanding what is our
labor market, you know, where, whereare the jobs potentially, but I'm
(09:43):
into local labor market just in timelabor market that is not publicized.
I'm in the hidden unpublished market.
So, AI can help
Okay, I'm going to see an employerwhat might I expect about objections
they might have about my organizationand how can I deal with that?
And I can use that to inform andget information to prepare myself
(10:07):
for my role if I'm a practitioner.
but I actually have to pick upthe phone and talk to somebody.
I actually have to go in.
and technology can help me maybe be moreconfident in those interactions and I'm
talking about this from a practitioner,you know, a job developer talking to
an employer, I also find it with mywork as a consultant coach and trainer
(10:33):
I've been a consultant for 25 yearsand it gets pretty lonely in my office
thinking about ideas and why don'tI try this and why don't I try that.
And hiring other people to give metheir perspective over those 25 years
it's like, what am I looking for?
I'm looking for confidence in whatI'm recommending chat is, Going
(10:54):
to be nice to me and tell me howgreat I am, but I can, I can ask,
like, what would my worst critic sayabout what I'm proposing right now?
And it really helps me think thingsthrough in a private way, but now I'm here
public on that podcast, but in a privateway that I can be a safe learner with AI.
Sharon (11:20):
I think That is a great, lesson for those who are just dipping
their toe into the world of AI.
I think a lot of people that I've talkedto who are new to the tools, think of them
as the sources of answers, you know, Iwill go to this tool to ask for an answer
to a question or do some research forme or summarize some information for me.
(11:46):
but really.
Those of us who have gotten totinker and play more with these
tools are finding that being able touse it as a conversational thought
partner, you know, sort of treatit as though you've hired this A.
I.
assistant to, do things that, willhelp you to manage your time better
(12:09):
or to help you build your career.
Preparation and confidence for the workthat you're doing, can really be quite
a different way of approaching how weleverage the technology and help to
keep us in the driver's seat as we, youknow, start to use these tools more.
I know we talked before about how oneof the things you do is you have written
(12:33):
on a sticky note to remind yourselfof how can chat GBT help me with this.
I totally relate to that.
I'm sticking notes all over and Icould see myself doing the same thing.
what are, you know, 2 or 3 waysrecently, examples of case studies or
what you've used, ChatGPT for lately?
Angela (12:54):
Well, we do know that if you come into Canada as an internationally
trained professional and don't workin your field with your first job,
the odds of you getting into your oreven industry again, or next to nil.
You're going to be washing dishesand driving cabs and everything else.
(13:15):
So I'm going into ChatGPT, saying whatare the bridging programs in Canada?
Are there any, you know,for this profession?
What are the, what are all ofthe alternatives that you could,
go into different directions?
finding out information, gettingthe list of all of the programs,
and And sending it by email.
(13:36):
there was a time I would put thattogether and charge for that, where
now there is, for me, there is kindof this motivation to help others do
what I'm learning to make their life.
easier, from a business perspective, itmeans that I'm also having to rethink
(14:01):
what changes for me as a business personwhen content is so easily accessible
Sharon (14:08):
I've, Run into similar things.
I work as a trainer and a facilitator.
training people on information, howeasy is it to access this information?
Are there just a few peoplewho have access to it?
Or is it easily accessible?
the role of.
The knowledge expert, or the trainer,depending on, you know, how you
(14:31):
define your role and what you focuson has changed as that barrier to
information barrier to expertisehas lowered and lowered and lowered.
there's still an interestingconversation about our.
Unique human value
So is it less getting people accessto the information like you said
you can be on the call with themand be pulling up the information
(14:54):
with the help of AI really fast.
So just getting that informationisn't the value add that you have.
And part of it is probably your experiencewith knowing how to evaluate those options
or to help them approach 1 of thoseprograms, given their life experience or
(15:14):
what barriers they might be running into.
So, it is really interesting.
Think about, how, yeah,how our roles change.
What, what becomes valuable?
What versus what is less valuable?
in education as well, and I thinkYou know, they have to think a
lot about the kind of assignmentsthey give to students because, you
(15:34):
know, a lot of it was like, findinginformation and regurgitating it back.
On a test or paper, who started thiswar and what were the 3 causes of it?
that's pretty easy toget an answer to now.
So, then that becomes like, well,what's the more, you know, why were
we asking that in the 1st place?
(15:56):
What were we hoping thatthey would gain from it?
And what's a differentway of getting to that?
how do we bring valueto that conversation?
this week I was helping a group ofuniversity staff to figure out how
they could use AI in their work.
And quite a few of them wanted it tohelp them with strategic planning,
(16:18):
with developing action plans, with.
Writing standard operatingprocedures, things like that.
it's very good at creating ananswer to those types of prompts.
It can write a strategic plan inminutes, but then it, brings the
question of, what were you hoping toget out of creating a strategic plan?
(16:44):
Was it to have a 25 page documentthat says what you're doing?
Yes.
Yes.
Or was it to wrestle with the questionsof what deserves the most attention
and resources and, you know, to reallymake meaning out of where have we
gotten to in the last couple of years?
(17:04):
Where do we want to see ourselves next?
I'm curious about how we as trainersand facilitators, rather than try
to say, you know, oh, AI reallydoesn't do a good job of that.
Like, don't use it for that.
I'd rather say, yeah, AI can do avery quick, efficient job of that.
And here's how we can then supportthat in making it actually meaningful
(17:28):
and valuable, rather than just havingchecked a box and say, yep, we did
the road, a plan, or we, you know,said how we're going to connect
these job seekers to opportunities.
Angela (17:41):
I feel like I'm in an AI Petri dish right now, in that Petri dish, when
I look at AI Tinkers group, it is thattinkering, it is that applied learning
that is so powerful for me as a learner.
in this Petri dish, I'm, realizingthe importance of discipline, the
(18:01):
importance of good enough, move on.
The importance of, if you have 10 hoursto do this, it's going to take 10 hours.
But if you have 15 minutes,it's going to take 15 minutes.
So I'm going down all these roadsright now of I'll ask chat a
question and I like their answer,but it's like, let's keep going.
(18:24):
Let's keep going.
then it's like an hour has gone by.
yesterday I had done thatfor hours on a project.
I felt like I had converged.
my husband came in and I said, Ijust want to toss some ideas at you.
I'm wondering aboutthis word and that word.
So it was like, how about this or that?
And we're having this conversationfor about a half an hour.
(18:45):
And he's like, yeah, I thinkyou should land on that one.
I'm like, okay, I'll land on that one.
then he said, what areyou doing right now?
I said, I just put our ideas in chatto see what he thought about it.
And he's like, you werefinished that stage.
That, that was, The diverging.
you weren't brainstorming anymore.
(19:06):
You were coming to a decision.
realizing my experience.
and all of the ways that can gowrong or be a time waster and I can
get in the wormhole are lessons thatI can be sharing with my clients.
Sharon (19:21):
Yeah.
Angela (19:22):
and then for me, as a trainer of content.
there was a time maybe about twoweeks ago where I was thinking
my job is just to give content.
Sharon (19:33):
Right.
Angela (19:35):
And actually, it was probably a year ago where I had that, my I'm just
giving content and I went to art school.
sat in rooms for three hours,we were talking about like, and
this is how you do something.
And I was feeling that itchinessof like, are we, and at one point I
said, are we going to do anything?
Like, we're actually goingto get our hands on anything.
(19:55):
It's like, oh yeah,we'll get there tomorrow.
And it was a real eye opener forme as a trainer of, you know what?
People don't want to be looking at ahead anymore at the front of a room.
They don't want to be watchinga PowerPoint presentation.
They want to be learning it.
It's about application for them.
(20:15):
It's not about the cookies.
It's not about that.
They liked me as a trainer orthat the room was hot and the
chairs were uncomfortable.
that's not what I want them to remember.
I want them to know that something haschanged for them, It's a tall order
and puts a lot of pressure on me,because I really want that for them.
(20:37):
they have agency too.
I mean, I, it's just, I just wantto go here, let me do it for you.
But that engaging them and let peoplebe there in their own Petri dish is,
What I can support them to do right now.
will I make money at it?
That'll be a problem.
Sharon (20:56):
Yeah, I think that if, if they apply what they're learning
and see the value that's where thevalue comes through as a business.
Well, you know, I think that.
I noticed that so this, this gigthat I just facilitated last week,
(21:16):
it was a group that I had alreadyworked with the year before.
the first year I did traditionalteam development style, facilitation.
They had some new keyplayers on their team.
They wanted to rethink.
We get to know each other talkabout their strategic priorities,
the uncertain future coming outof the pandemic, things like that.
(21:38):
that we had all these high levelconversations and we facilitate a lot
of team development, but there was, acertain contingent in the room was like.
When are we going toactually do something?
when are we going tostop talking about it?
when am I going to see therelevance to my everyday job?
And there are other people who reallyappreciate and feel value in the
(22:00):
human connection and big picturethinking but it didn't leave everyone
feeling they had immediate value.
this time.
It was very much skewed in the otherdirection where I was teaching them about.
Artificial intelligence and whatwere commercially available tools
that were available to them andthen very quickly into the process.
(22:24):
We actually took the high level ideas.
They had talked about a year ago and Ihad them sort them by which ones were
still relevant a year later and thenpull the ones that were still relevant,
but that hadn't been started yet.
And have them go through an exerciseto see how could I help us get
started on this or get it donefaster it was something they still
(22:48):
thought was important, but theydidn't have the resources to address
them like, does this change anythingnow that you have access to AI.
and many of them did feel like itchanged something and did feel like,
oh, that thing that never felt likewe could get to we could get to now
because it's faster and so much easier.
(23:09):
yeah, I think I left thinking,wow, because the workshop was
designed to have them apply whatthey were learning immediately.
many of them even started.
Doing what they wanted to do in theirown laptops with chat you T or with
another tool, you know, they left thatroom having already completed projects
that have been on the back burner for.
(23:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, so I wonder aboutthe speed of these tools.
usually we'd do a training thenthey'd go back to their offices.
Think about how to apply whatthey learned, then get distracted
by some other emergency.
And they're never going to actually doit because of the speed of the tools,
would we be able to get them furtherfaster in the training experience.
Angela (23:55):
Yeah.
Sharon (23:57):
And what does that change, with the expectation of what you do
in training, What is something whereyou would usually leave off and hand
it over to them to do on their own,
Angela (24:08):
you know?
Yeah, leaving it off, I think,One of the the important pieces in
facilitation is commitment at the end.
Yeah.
And are you leaving with an action planwith a concrete action a name and a date?
if the first three things on thataction plan would have been, we
(24:30):
have to write a policy or whatever,it's like, let's get that out.
Let's do it now.
now let's talk about the theory of changearound it, it's not just about the policy,
it's the application, it's the compliance.
With the policy and it's thinking about,I mean, even, even taking that, you think
(24:51):
about, okay, so we've just developedour AI policy in this group let's think
of all the, things that can go wrong.
It's like, what are yougoing to anticipate?
how are we going to plan for it now?
That's the accelerationEAI can do in a workshop.
I love that follow up.
I go back a year later.
(25:12):
Some of those things may have beendone the night before because they
know Sharon's showing up, right?
but it is, moving.
I love that follow up.
Remember we talked aboutthis six months ago?
Oh yeah, they're still on the list.
I love that applicationyou're talking about.
it's still important becausesometimes it's just getting started
getting that flywheel going.
(25:34):
the opportunity, for us asfacilitators and consultants is
helping with that behavior change.
Sharon (25:43):
Yeah, I think There's the help.
Well, multiple pieces.
there's helping with behavior changebecause we know that's often difficult
Even if we agree what needs to change,we have a better understanding of
it actually making those changes,especially if it involves us
having to change our own behavior.
Can be very difficult I often tryto build empathy in my workshops for
(26:05):
each other around how difficult it is.
sometimes I do that simple exercise whereyou put your hands together and see, like,
did I put my right thumb over my left?
Or my left thumb over my right?
switch the way their hands are clasped.
So they have the other thumb on topand they go, how does that feel?
does that feel any different?
And everyone's like, Oh mygosh, that feels so weird.
(26:26):
That feels uncomfortable.
Right.
Even something as simple ashow you class for your hands.
If you've always done it one way, You'resuddenly doing it a different way.
It'll feel awkward and uncomfortable.
It feels wrong at first, you know, usethat as like a metaphor to say, okay,
if we're going to do things differently,it might have that period of time
where it feels uncomfortable or ittakes, you know, more effort because
(26:50):
it's not the way we've done it before.
helping them learn not just thecontent, but how to manage their
own beliefs attitudes and behaviorto apply what they're learning.
And then the other two things thatcame up for me, one was helping
people question their own thinking.
(27:12):
I think that's a huge value that we bringas outside consultants or as facilitators
because oftentimes they they're sort ofat, this is our problem, help us solve it.
if we suddenly use the power of AI toget to the stated answer faster, like
you said, you need a five year plan,here's your plan, then oftentimes
(27:34):
we can get to the underlying deeperwork, helping them question and
align with their values or with.
The current resources they have, arethere hard choices they haven't made?
the 1st would beattitudes, behavior change.
The 2nd would be helpingpeople question their thinking.
(27:55):
And the 3rd, helping peoplebuild institutional knowledge.
That's just a general maintenancepractice many nations lack
is clear documentation of.
why did we get together?
What data was generated Why did we havethe outputs we had And what is the follow
(28:17):
up we said we would do, when I came tothis client and put up on the wall, all
the ideas that you talked about last year,none of them had captured those ideas.
No, 1 had references exactlywhat to see them again.
Oh, yeah.
Those were ideas from a year ago.
(28:37):
Yeah.
Help them have that institutional memoryof, wow, that's where we were a year ago.
interesting to see where we are now.
being the outsider, you can dothat in a different way too,
that people can internally.
Angela (28:51):
Yeah.
for me being a business owner, for 35years and a consultant for 25 years.
I have organizations I've workedwith that long I have a system I
learned in 2005 that changed my life,getting things done by David Allen.
Right.
(29:11):
I organized my files whatI love about David Allen.
is His model is for unorganized people.
The people that like to underline thingsand, you know, everything put together.
That's not who his model is for.
with clients now, I can say, You know, Iwant to work with you around this, I can
go back and say, okay, when we worked onthis 15 years ago, and I can actually pull
(29:33):
out the information and say, and then whenwe worked eight years ago on that project.
Right.
that's a great party game too.
Because it's like, we talked about that in2000 You're still saying that's priority
what comes up for me just in the thingsthat that you just talked about Sharon was
(29:54):
I'm this whole design thinking this wholeiterating thing because I grew up in a
time where it's like there's one answer.
we had a scarcity of information.
I had the book of knowledge.
That's all that existed, the at homeencyclopedia or the book at the library.
(30:15):
So now it's like completely differentwhere we've got this glut of information
and there's not just one answer.
There could be a million answers.
Sharon (30:24):
Yeah, it's helping me realize one way we can provide value as we
tinker and learn is, what are the skills.
Of the AI age, you know, asyou said, left of information.
So being able to create content and shareinformation, it's not that it doesn't have
(30:46):
any value, but there may be now increasedvalue in curating existing information
and evaluating sources and being able todiscern like what is valuable and why.
In a history undergraduate degree.
And so just knowing the basics oflike primary sources versus secondary
(31:07):
sources and being able to explainwhy this source of information
might be better than others.
You know, one of the concernswith AI itself is that it's often
using math, using statistics togenerate answers or content from,
(31:27):
you know, data that's already in it.
Databanks.
So it's not necessarily goingout and looking for what are the
most reputable sources a greatlibrarian or newsletter editor does.
That's not what your AI tool is doing.
So, so then that brings in.
Okay, so if we can understand.
(31:48):
Where the tool works enough to understandits strengths and limitations how
do we figure out where The skillsfor leaders in this age need to
be in terms of filling those gaps
Angela (32:03):
the first thing in my petri dish in learning myself
and helping others is how.
We all go back to being five yearsold when we learn something new.
when I went to art school last year,I felt like I was in grade seven that
(32:25):
kind of, why do we have to do that?
I see that anxiety of learningthat everybody else knows that I
don't know how to get a QR code.
Right.
I don't know what a QR code is for.
And I don't know what I do with it.
Right.
That the, with new technology, newconcepts, I think we're all thrown
(32:48):
back to when we were introducedto a new concept at some point
where we were afraid we'd fail.
And where you're talking aboutthe crossing your hands, I've
been doing something similar withpickles, do you know pickles?
It's like a whiteboard youcan draw with your finger.
Yeah.
So I'd start a workshop and it's like,okay, we're going to draw a picture.
(33:13):
with your non dominant hand youcan't take your finger off the
screen and you're going to do this.
to get to that point, people hadto be able to access, do a QR
code, access Pickles, learn it.
And I'm like, help yourneighbor, help your neighbor.
by the end of the second day, Isay, okay, so what we're going to
(33:34):
do is we're going to draw your face.
The first day, it's like, I want you todraw your face with a non dominant hand.
Well, the next day it's like.
Draw your face with a nondominant hand using pickles.
Everybody knows how to get on.
They, now they're using colors.
getting fancy with it.
(33:54):
now I can talk about learning concepts.
They had the experience of not knowingand knowing how to use technology in
a short period how does that translatewith concepts like talking to an
employer and asking them great questions?
You're going to go through that samefear you had in, in learning pickles.
(34:17):
That took five minutes, right?
Then you're going to havein sitting with an employer.
So being able to not, you know,in a responsible and safe way,
take them through learning androle plays are about that too.
But take them through that learning.
So they're more confidentwhen they're out in the world.
Sharon (34:36):
And I think that's why people who have this experience and knowledge around.
Training facilitation will be veryhelpful as we have many people
learning new things at once.
we're trying to teach peoplewithin our own sectors, but I think
there's also that broader skillset that we bring of what is it.
(34:58):
That helps people as whoare adults in their work.
learn something that theymay be intimidated to learn.
Yeah.
That may be an uncomfortablesituation, but that they, you know,
find themselves suddenly needing tolearn whether they want to or not.
Both (35:12):
Mm-Hmm.
. Sharon: Yeah.
when we designed this workshop lastweek, one thing that came up was it
was a department in which you had.
The top leadership, and then youhad sort of the middle management.
the top leadership, typically theyare people who are older because
they've got more experience.
(35:33):
So they've been promoted to those roles.
and so it wasn't true across the board,but many of them feel like they have had
to learn so many different technologies.
They don't know.
Is it really worth learning yet?
Another technology?
we had 1 person recently beenhaving issues with their eyesight.
they're trying to navigate.
Not just the tech, but alimitation with eyesight.
(35:56):
So, different barriers.
it ended up being helpful to havetop leadership go through the
exercises first and get out concernsor anxieties with their peer group.
Before the next layer of leadership, notbecause we were trying to be exclusive or
anything, but it's just sort of recognize,like, desire to not be embarrassed in
(36:17):
front of people you supervise, you know,you're supposed to be the leader guiding
them and feel out of your element.
that can be intimidating.
Angela (36:24):
when you asked about the human part, where's the human part, and you use
the word empathy, that is something asfacilitators and trainers that we bring
as humans creating safe learning spaceswhere people can learn, like you said,
is it time to bring in the team, or isit time for you to go through your own,
(36:47):
As a leader, your own stages change here,before you bring other people in and
AI is not going to be able to do that.
Sharon (36:58):
You know,
Angela (36:58):
that human connection will still be necessary.
we're reading the room, meetingpeople where they're at.
trying to figure outwhat's really going on.
with this goal of, Makingit better, not worse.
Sharon (37:13):
these have been great insights.
I appreciate you chatting with me Is thereanything I didn't ask you or we didn't
talk about that you wanted to include
Angela (37:22):
I think going back to the Book of Knowledge when we look at our workforce
now, and young people, I look at my,my children, my daughters who are 30
and 27 that say, you know, Mom, we'reold now compared to these young people.
They didn't have, you know, Facebooktill they were in high school.
They didn't have.
a smartphone until they, were ingrade 12, maybe, Where for me, I
(37:48):
started out using a manual typewriter.
and I've had to, yeah,like cry me a river.
I had to learn a new tool.
I had to I graduated to electric, right?
our workforce now is made up of so manydifferent generations that have had
different experiences and introductions.
And you asked me, you know,when was I introduced to AI?
(38:08):
It's like, when was Iintroduced to a computer?
You know, where, where childrennow are born and it's like, I
got one when I got a smartphonewhen I'm eight months old, right?
Where I didn't get mine till I was.
45.
And with all of these differentgenerations, you know, I remember hearing
(38:31):
that for people with disabilities, thattechnology was going to be the great
equalizer for people with disabilities.
And I see that, that, that technologyis too, especially for these, if
you, if you're willing to learn,it doesn't matter how old you are.
you're willing to say, okay, I don't knowthe answer and I'm, there's new tools out
(38:53):
there and I'm, I'm going to learn them,but I'm also going to keep my emotional
intelligence keep reflecting on myselfsupporting others and figuring out how
humans, we work together, but how cantechnology help us work better together?
Sharon (39:10):
yeah, I love that.
it reminds me that also people havedifferent, because of how they've been
exposed to technology at different timesin their life or their career, they
have different expectations for whatlearning a new technology looks like.
Yes, this group that I was in,one of the older members who's
very eager to use the tools.
(39:31):
She said, where's the course thatI can take in this, where's the
manual, you know, like, yeah.
Okay.
Someone says we're going to roll outthis new technology, attend the courses.
Here's the manual.
Here's the screenshots that showyou what to click when, you know,
and she's, that's how she's learned
Many years new technology andstayed abreast of what's going on.
(39:54):
now she's being askedto just play with it.
She's like, yeah, about that.
I don't know if I justwant to play with it.
I would much rathersomeone walk me through it.
So I can build my confidence with it.
Angela (40:07):
Mm hmm.
Yeah, yeah, And this is why groups likethe AI tinkerers group are important to
be with other facilitators, consultants,coaches, that are also learning, I
feel like I'm part of a community, eventhough I only see people on Zoom, the
(40:30):
safety of knowing here we are, we'reall in this Petri dish, we're all giving
it a whirl, and that's the only way.
Things are moving so fast that thecourse will be irrelevant by next week.
Right, and that is something for thoseof us, me, who's an applied learner,
(40:51):
this is like, woohoo, you know, this ishow I've always learned things, because
those other methods don't work for me.
Sharon (40:58):
I was lucky enough to be a part of a group similar to this.
an ad hoc learning developmentprofessionals group Started during the
pandemic for facilitators and trainers,they were having to rapidly learn all
the features on zoom and all the featureson any other digital facilitation tools.
And so we would get together and someonewould demo practice something together
(41:21):
and do it in a safe environment before we.
Did it in front of our clients.
So
Angela (41:28):
is it still going?
Sharon (41:29):
it was.
a group that formed when people had alot of time because all their things
had been postponed or canceled andall supported each other and then
once we all got busy again withwork and had felt more comfortable
Angela (41:44):
The thing you just use the word time and that is the the thing with
technology and and and learning all thisAI stuff is the importance of discipline
I'm finding with myself it's like I, I, Idon't need to be on the tinkerers group or
learning all of this stuff all the time.
(42:06):
Right.
I need to say I'm giving myself a halfhour a day to see what's out there and
really stick to that because we haveto put brackets around these things
or, how do we get anything else done?
I find Sharon with chat.
I need to know, three answers is enough.
I could be doing this for two hours,but half an hour is enough talk about
(42:33):
emotional intelligence with teams and howdo you work most productively together.
But it's what I learned from David Allenand getting things done is discipline.
We hate it and we need it andwe're certainly going to need it
as things change and move forwardwith AI and everything else
Sharon (42:51):
one of the things I've gotten the most positive feedback
on from clients lately is teachingthem about boundary setting.
Yeah, I really do feel like we'rein an era of boundaries being a
high priority for professionalsuccess and understanding how to
set them and enforce them, or, Yeah.
(43:14):
It's no fun,
Angela (43:16):
Sharon.
Sharon (43:17):
It's not fun.
It's fun when you have the time.
I know it's important,
Angela (43:21):
what do you mean you're going to clip my wings?
What the heck?
Sharon (43:26):
Yeah, because they are
Angela (43:28):
important.
Boundaries are important.
Definitely.
Sharon (43:30):
Yeah, there's a great resource.
I'll put it on the podcast shownotes, it's called the set boundaries
deck, a card deck around boundarybasics and situations you need
to set your boundaries with.
Angela (43:44):
I will look for that in the show notes for sure.
Sharon (43:48):
And how can people follow you or connect with you if they want
to include that in the show notes
Angela (43:54):
my name is Angela Hoyt.
My company is Evolution Group Inc.
and you can find me onLinkedIn under Angela Hoyt.
don't do Facebook or Twitter anymore.
LinkedIn is a great place to get me.
Sharon (44:07):
do you only work with people in Canada or across the border as well?
Angela (44:13):
I work remotely.
in person in Canada,remotely everywhere else.
Thanks.
Excellent.
Sharon (44:21):
thank you for being willing to hop in with me.
And I enjoy also being a colleaguein the Tinkerer's Club and, the
discoveries we're making week after week.
So I look forward to staying in touch.
Angela (44:33):
thank you Sharon, for this opportunity and teaching me so much,
I'm looking forward to continuingthat learning journey with you.
Thank you for joining us on this episodeof AI for Helpers and Changemakers.
For the show notes and moreinformation about working with
Sharon, visit bloomfacilitation.
com.
If you have a suggestion for whowe should interview, email us
(44:53):
at hello at bloomfacilitation.
com.
And finally, please share thisepisode with someone you think
would find it interesting.
Word of mouth is our best marketing.
Are you not sure how to feel about the way AI is suddenly everywhere?
AI for Helpers and Changemakers isa show for people who want to do
good work and help other people.
Whether you're already using AItools and loving it, or you are
pretty sure that ChatGPT is thefirst sign of our downfall, we want
you to listen in and learn with us.
(00:26):
Your host on this journeyis Sharon Tewksbury Bloom.
For 20 years, she's workedwith helpers and changemakers.
She believes that we're about to seethe biggest changes in our work lives
since the Internet went mainstream.
We're in this together.
Join us as Sharon interviews peoplein different helping professions.
Navigate what these new technologiesare doing to and for their work.
Sharon (00:47):
Excellent.
And you and I met throughthe AI Tinkerer's Club.
How did you find out about theAI Tinkerer's Club and how long
have you been part of that?
Angela (00:57):
I found out through the, Meeting Innovation Community, Elise
Keith's group, and it was about,again, it could have been last week.
Sharon, it could havebeen like, five years ago.
I don't know anymore.
but Alex from the Tinkerers Clubwas doing an experiment, and I
(01:18):
don't know how I found out aboutit, but the experiment was storms.
Sharon (01:24):
His,
Angela (01:24):
online, collaboration, facilitation, a mural kind of thing.
I didn't really realizewhat experiment I was in.
when I heard it was happening again,I signed up because they were doing
it for other parts of the world.
there I was at two in the morning.
the experiment was storms Alex wassaying, let's brainstorm on this
(01:46):
board, the question was, what are wegoing to do with our lives when we.
Are only working three or four days a weekwhat happens to loneliness for seniors?
what kind of epidemics arerecreating when we're working
with three and four days a week.
So Alex first took us through kindof the, let's use our own brains to
(02:08):
brainstorm and we had the little stickynotes and we're adding our ideas.
And now he's showing ushow to move things around.
and so again, I'm thinking the experience.
I'm not realizing thattechnology is the experiment.
And so then he started using the,showing us the AI function in the tool
(02:29):
and how in the software and how you canmarry the human with the technology.
And that's where I got really excitedIt is a way to complement what I'm
doing, not to replace what I'm doing.
So, like I said, it was so excitingfor me using Storms, and I'm very hands
(02:50):
on, which is why I love the Tinkerersgroup, that's why I went to the next.
the next experiment with Alex I wantedto use the tool about a week later
it was really funny 'cause I waslearning all these little tools and
like this AI stuff is really cool.
So for my business one day Ithought, I love show and tell.
So I'm going to do a show andshare on the AI tools that I have
(03:13):
learned about in the last two weeksand went on LinkedIn and said.
Anyone interested and I hadabout 10 people on there.
Well, I had learned it like 2 weeksbefore and was feeling like quite a
superstar with the, the different didn'thave to even look up what AI meant and
(03:35):
teaching people when I was planning thatsession, that little show and share.
I was trying to figure out how to setup storms because there's like all
these steps that you can do from, youknow, diverging to converging and Alex.
I was writing and saying,what do I do about this?
And he said, do you wantto hop on the line with me?
(03:57):
So in half an hour, he setup a Storms session for me,
which I did a half hour later.
And that's what I, it's making me looksmarter, and I'm actually feeling smarter
because it is, it is really expanding.
it's something I've really glommedonto and I'm excited about.
Sharon (04:20):
I have multiple threads I want to pull on there.
Before I forget I want to go backand start with an introduction.
you're a businesswoman.
in Canada.
working in supporting employment servicesfor someone listening who has no idea
what kind of field do you work in?
And what kind of thingsyou help people with?
Angela (04:43):
Okay, so the field I work in is community employment services, workforce
development, career development, andI work with organizations that support
job seekers who are distant fromthe labor market and who are at risk
of Long term unemployment or neveremployment and so the organizations
(05:11):
are set up to ensure that the peoplethat want to work and we're talking
about people with disabilities andnewcomers to the country and people have
criminal histories or their own socialassistance, you know, these people that
are kind of We call marginalized orbarriered or equity seeking deserving
groups that there are people thatwant to work and aren't working and
(05:37):
I work with organizations on how to.
bridge the gap from job seeker tothe employer, not by using resumes
and interviews and job boards by, butby using, by relationship selling by
engaging employers to look at talentpools they've never considered before.
(06:01):
And there's a lot of perceptions aroundthose groups of people that employers,
maybe you're uncomfortable with hiring.
But there's also perceptions thatemployers have about the services
and and is this a government programthat's going to waste my time and
I've had bad experiences with.
So my work with organizations ishow do you set up the, the model
(06:24):
to ensure that the people thatneed the most support get it?
because that's an issue where sometimesthe people that need the least
support get all the support, whetherit's subsidies or staff support or.
how do we make sure the people that can'tfind a job on their own are supported.
I work with leaders, teams, dotraining, consulting, coaching.
Sharon (06:49):
One of the thoughts that inspired me to start this series was
the idea that we're running out oftime to know what it means to be human.
As we use artificial intelligence andtechnology more it helps us get clear
about the uniquely human experiences orways to bring more humanity into our work.
(07:14):
so I hear you saying in your work, youbuild relationships with employers help
people recognize and overcome barriers,biases, past prejudices, hear people's
stories see, different perspectives.
do you agree with that?
And are there other things thatcome to mind in terms of what's
uniquely human in the work you do
Angela (07:36):
my work is with service providers job seekers and employers.
And the,
the solution, that I see from a policyperspective and where government
is spending money, I cannot tellyou how many job boards are funded
in this province, in Canada.
(08:00):
and I see it all over, all overthe place, all over the world.
It's this like, we just need a better,better tool for employers to find people.
You know, everyone's going to uploadtheir resume and then by magic,
you know, employers are going tosee these and they're not going to.
do what they do on Tinder andswipe whatever left or right you
(08:22):
go, they're going to actuallywant to talk to these people.
But, that is not how people get jobs.
People get jobs through relationships.
sometimes you don't have relationships.
Sharon (08:36):
Okay.
Angela (08:36):
You know, you're, you don't, and, or, sometimes you have people
in your life that no one's working.
So how am I supposed to tap into mynetwork where nobody I know is working?
Maybe people don't want me working.
Maybe I'm new to thiscommunity or whatever.
And I think this is where in my work.
(08:59):
It is about bringing that human partin there, that if we have credibility
as humans, if we are connectors, ifI have relationships with employers.
if they see me as credible, and Ibelieve it, then they're going to see
the people I'm recommending as credible.
And that doesn't meanI'm overselling people.
(09:21):
It's like, you know what?
You say you need this, thisperson has these strengths, do
you want to give them a whirl?
I don't see AI or technologyis going to support me.
Technology can support and, youknow, understanding what is our
labor market, you know, where, whereare the jobs potentially, but I'm
(09:43):
into local labor market just in timelabor market that is not publicized.
I'm in the hidden unpublished market.
So, AI can help
Okay, I'm going to see an employerwhat might I expect about objections
they might have about my organizationand how can I deal with that?
And I can use that to inform andget information to prepare myself
(10:07):
for my role if I'm a practitioner.
but I actually have to pick upthe phone and talk to somebody.
I actually have to go in.
and technology can help me maybe be moreconfident in those interactions and I'm
talking about this from a practitioner,you know, a job developer talking to
an employer, I also find it with mywork as a consultant coach and trainer
(10:33):
I've been a consultant for 25 yearsand it gets pretty lonely in my office
thinking about ideas and why don'tI try this and why don't I try that.
And hiring other people to give metheir perspective over those 25 years
it's like, what am I looking for?
I'm looking for confidence in whatI'm recommending chat is, Going
(10:54):
to be nice to me and tell me howgreat I am, but I can, I can ask,
like, what would my worst critic sayabout what I'm proposing right now?
And it really helps me think thingsthrough in a private way, but now I'm here
public on that podcast, but in a privateway that I can be a safe learner with AI.
Sharon (11:20):
I think That is a great, lesson for those who are just dipping
their toe into the world of AI.
I think a lot of people that I've talkedto who are new to the tools, think of them
as the sources of answers, you know, Iwill go to this tool to ask for an answer
to a question or do some research forme or summarize some information for me.
(11:46):
but really.
Those of us who have gotten totinker and play more with these
tools are finding that being able touse it as a conversational thought
partner, you know, sort of treatit as though you've hired this A.
I.
assistant to, do things that, willhelp you to manage your time better
(12:09):
or to help you build your career.
Preparation and confidence for the workthat you're doing, can really be quite
a different way of approaching how weleverage the technology and help to
keep us in the driver's seat as we, youknow, start to use these tools more.
I know we talked before about how oneof the things you do is you have written
(12:33):
on a sticky note to remind yourselfof how can chat GBT help me with this.
I totally relate to that.
I'm sticking notes all over and Icould see myself doing the same thing.
what are, you know, 2 or 3 waysrecently, examples of case studies or
what you've used, ChatGPT for lately?
Angela (12:54):
Well, we do know that if you come into Canada as an internationally
trained professional and don't workin your field with your first job,
the odds of you getting into your oreven industry again, or next to nil.
You're going to be washing dishesand driving cabs and everything else.
(13:15):
So I'm going into ChatGPT, saying whatare the bridging programs in Canada?
Are there any, you know,for this profession?
What are the, what are all ofthe alternatives that you could,
go into different directions?
finding out information, gettingthe list of all of the programs,
and And sending it by email.
(13:36):
there was a time I would put thattogether and charge for that, where
now there is, for me, there is kindof this motivation to help others do
what I'm learning to make their life.
easier, from a business perspective, itmeans that I'm also having to rethink
(14:01):
what changes for me as a business personwhen content is so easily accessible
Sharon (14:08):
I've, Run into similar things.
I work as a trainer and a facilitator.
training people on information, howeasy is it to access this information?
Are there just a few peoplewho have access to it?
Or is it easily accessible?
the role of.
The knowledge expert, or the trainer,depending on, you know, how you
(14:31):
define your role and what you focuson has changed as that barrier to
information barrier to expertisehas lowered and lowered and lowered.
there's still an interestingconversation about our.
Unique human value
So is it less getting people accessto the information like you said
you can be on the call with themand be pulling up the information
(14:54):
with the help of AI really fast.
So just getting that informationisn't the value add that you have.
And part of it is probably your experiencewith knowing how to evaluate those options
or to help them approach 1 of thoseprograms, given their life experience or
(15:14):
what barriers they might be running into.
So, it is really interesting.
Think about, how, yeah,how our roles change.
What, what becomes valuable?
What versus what is less valuable?
in education as well, and I thinkYou know, they have to think a
lot about the kind of assignmentsthey give to students because, you
(15:34):
know, a lot of it was like, findinginformation and regurgitating it back.
On a test or paper, who started thiswar and what were the 3 causes of it?
that's pretty easy toget an answer to now.
So, then that becomes like, well,what's the more, you know, why were
we asking that in the 1st place?
(15:56):
What were we hoping thatthey would gain from it?
And what's a differentway of getting to that?
how do we bring valueto that conversation?
this week I was helping a group ofuniversity staff to figure out how
they could use AI in their work.
And quite a few of them wanted it tohelp them with strategic planning,
(16:18):
with developing action plans, with.
Writing standard operatingprocedures, things like that.
it's very good at creating ananswer to those types of prompts.
It can write a strategic plan inminutes, but then it, brings the
question of, what were you hoping toget out of creating a strategic plan?
(16:44):
Was it to have a 25 page documentthat says what you're doing?
Yes.
Yes.
Or was it to wrestle with the questionsof what deserves the most attention
and resources and, you know, to reallymake meaning out of where have we
gotten to in the last couple of years?
(17:04):
Where do we want to see ourselves next?
I'm curious about how we as trainersand facilitators, rather than try
to say, you know, oh, AI reallydoesn't do a good job of that.
Like, don't use it for that.
I'd rather say, yeah, AI can do avery quick, efficient job of that.
And here's how we can then supportthat in making it actually meaningful
(17:28):
and valuable, rather than just havingchecked a box and say, yep, we did
the road, a plan, or we, you know,said how we're going to connect
these job seekers to opportunities.
Angela (17:41):
I feel like I'm in an AI Petri dish right now, in that Petri dish, when
I look at AI Tinkers group, it is thattinkering, it is that applied learning
that is so powerful for me as a learner.
in this Petri dish, I'm, realizingthe importance of discipline, the
(18:01):
importance of good enough, move on.
The importance of, if you have 10 hoursto do this, it's going to take 10 hours.
But if you have 15 minutes,it's going to take 15 minutes.
So I'm going down all these roadsright now of I'll ask chat a
question and I like their answer,but it's like, let's keep going.
(18:24):
Let's keep going.
then it's like an hour has gone by.
yesterday I had done thatfor hours on a project.
I felt like I had converged.
my husband came in and I said, Ijust want to toss some ideas at you.
I'm wondering aboutthis word and that word.
So it was like, how about this or that?
And we're having this conversationfor about a half an hour.
(18:45):
And he's like, yeah, I thinkyou should land on that one.
I'm like, okay, I'll land on that one.
then he said, what areyou doing right now?
I said, I just put our ideas in chatto see what he thought about it.
And he's like, you werefinished that stage.
That, that was, The diverging.
you weren't brainstorming anymore.
(19:06):
You were coming to a decision.
realizing my experience.
and all of the ways that can gowrong or be a time waster and I can
get in the wormhole are lessons thatI can be sharing with my clients.
Sharon (19:21):
Yeah.
Angela (19:22):
and then for me, as a trainer of content.
there was a time maybe about twoweeks ago where I was thinking
my job is just to give content.
Sharon (19:33):
Right.
Angela (19:35):
And actually, it was probably a year ago where I had that, my I'm just
giving content and I went to art school.
sat in rooms for three hours,we were talking about like, and
this is how you do something.
And I was feeling that itchinessof like, are we, and at one point I
said, are we going to do anything?
Like, we're actually goingto get our hands on anything.
(19:55):
It's like, oh yeah,we'll get there tomorrow.
And it was a real eye opener forme as a trainer of, you know what?
People don't want to be looking at ahead anymore at the front of a room.
They don't want to be watchinga PowerPoint presentation.
They want to be learning it.
It's about application for them.
(20:15):
It's not about the cookies.
It's not about that.
They liked me as a trainer orthat the room was hot and the
chairs were uncomfortable.
that's not what I want them to remember.
I want them to know that something haschanged for them, It's a tall order
and puts a lot of pressure on me,because I really want that for them.
(20:37):
they have agency too.
I mean, I, it's just, I just wantto go here, let me do it for you.
But that engaging them and let peoplebe there in their own Petri dish is,
What I can support them to do right now.
will I make money at it?
That'll be a problem.
Sharon (20:56):
Yeah, I think that if, if they apply what they're learning
and see the value that's where thevalue comes through as a business.
Well, you know, I think that.
I noticed that so this, this gigthat I just facilitated last week,
(21:16):
it was a group that I had alreadyworked with the year before.
the first year I did traditionalteam development style, facilitation.
They had some new keyplayers on their team.
They wanted to rethink.
We get to know each other talkabout their strategic priorities,
the uncertain future coming outof the pandemic, things like that.
(21:38):
that we had all these high levelconversations and we facilitate a lot
of team development, but there was, acertain contingent in the room was like.
When are we going toactually do something?
when are we going tostop talking about it?
when am I going to see therelevance to my everyday job?
And there are other people who reallyappreciate and feel value in the
(22:00):
human connection and big picturethinking but it didn't leave everyone
feeling they had immediate value.
this time.
It was very much skewed in the otherdirection where I was teaching them about.
Artificial intelligence and whatwere commercially available tools
that were available to them andthen very quickly into the process.
(22:24):
We actually took the high level ideas.
They had talked about a year ago and Ihad them sort them by which ones were
still relevant a year later and thenpull the ones that were still relevant,
but that hadn't been started yet.
And have them go through an exerciseto see how could I help us get
started on this or get it donefaster it was something they still
(22:48):
thought was important, but theydidn't have the resources to address
them like, does this change anythingnow that you have access to AI.
and many of them did feel like itchanged something and did feel like,
oh, that thing that never felt likewe could get to we could get to now
because it's faster and so much easier.
(23:09):
yeah, I think I left thinking,wow, because the workshop was
designed to have them apply whatthey were learning immediately.
many of them even started.
Doing what they wanted to do in theirown laptops with chat you T or with
another tool, you know, they left thatroom having already completed projects
that have been on the back burner for.
(23:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, so I wonder aboutthe speed of these tools.
usually we'd do a training thenthey'd go back to their offices.
Think about how to apply whatthey learned, then get distracted
by some other emergency.
And they're never going to actually doit because of the speed of the tools,
would we be able to get them furtherfaster in the training experience.
Angela (23:55):
Yeah.
Sharon (23:57):
And what does that change, with the expectation of what you do
in training, What is something whereyou would usually leave off and hand
it over to them to do on their own,
Angela (24:08):
you know?
Yeah, leaving it off, I think,One of the the important pieces in
facilitation is commitment at the end.
Yeah.
And are you leaving with an action planwith a concrete action a name and a date?
if the first three things on thataction plan would have been, we
(24:30):
have to write a policy or whatever,it's like, let's get that out.
Let's do it now.
now let's talk about the theory of changearound it, it's not just about the policy,
it's the application, it's the compliance.
With the policy and it's thinking about,I mean, even, even taking that, you think
(24:51):
about, okay, so we've just developedour AI policy in this group let's think
of all the, things that can go wrong.
It's like, what are yougoing to anticipate?
how are we going to plan for it now?
That's the accelerationEAI can do in a workshop.
I love that follow up.
I go back a year later.
(25:12):
Some of those things may have beendone the night before because they
know Sharon's showing up, right?
but it is, moving.
I love that follow up.
Remember we talked aboutthis six months ago?
Oh yeah, they're still on the list.
I love that applicationyou're talking about.
it's still important becausesometimes it's just getting started
getting that flywheel going.
(25:34):
the opportunity, for us asfacilitators and consultants is
helping with that behavior change.
Sharon (25:43):
Yeah, I think There's the help.
Well, multiple pieces.
there's helping with behavior changebecause we know that's often difficult
Even if we agree what needs to change,we have a better understanding of
it actually making those changes,especially if it involves us
having to change our own behavior.
Can be very difficult I often tryto build empathy in my workshops for
(26:05):
each other around how difficult it is.
sometimes I do that simple exercise whereyou put your hands together and see, like,
did I put my right thumb over my left?
Or my left thumb over my right?
switch the way their hands are clasped.
So they have the other thumb on topand they go, how does that feel?
does that feel any different?
And everyone's like, Oh mygosh, that feels so weird.
(26:26):
That feels uncomfortable.
Right.
Even something as simple ashow you class for your hands.
If you've always done it one way, You'resuddenly doing it a different way.
It'll feel awkward and uncomfortable.
It feels wrong at first, you know, usethat as like a metaphor to say, okay,
if we're going to do things differently,it might have that period of time
where it feels uncomfortable or ittakes, you know, more effort because
(26:50):
it's not the way we've done it before.
helping them learn not just thecontent, but how to manage their
own beliefs attitudes and behaviorto apply what they're learning.
And then the other two things thatcame up for me, one was helping
people question their own thinking.
(27:12):
I think that's a huge value that we bringas outside consultants or as facilitators
because oftentimes they they're sort ofat, this is our problem, help us solve it.
if we suddenly use the power of AI toget to the stated answer faster, like
you said, you need a five year plan,here's your plan, then oftentimes
(27:34):
we can get to the underlying deeperwork, helping them question and
align with their values or with.
The current resources they have, arethere hard choices they haven't made?
the 1st would beattitudes, behavior change.
The 2nd would be helpingpeople question their thinking.
(27:55):
And the 3rd, helping peoplebuild institutional knowledge.
That's just a general maintenancepractice many nations lack
is clear documentation of.
why did we get together?
What data was generated Why did we havethe outputs we had And what is the follow
(28:17):
up we said we would do, when I came tothis client and put up on the wall, all
the ideas that you talked about last year,none of them had captured those ideas.
No, 1 had references exactlywhat to see them again.
Oh, yeah.
Those were ideas from a year ago.
(28:37):
Yeah.
Help them have that institutional memoryof, wow, that's where we were a year ago.
interesting to see where we are now.
being the outsider, you can dothat in a different way too,
that people can internally.
Angela (28:51):
Yeah.
for me being a business owner, for 35years and a consultant for 25 years.
I have organizations I've workedwith that long I have a system I
learned in 2005 that changed my life,getting things done by David Allen.
Right.
(29:11):
I organized my files whatI love about David Allen.
is His model is for unorganized people.
The people that like to underline thingsand, you know, everything put together.
That's not who his model is for.
with clients now, I can say, You know, Iwant to work with you around this, I can
go back and say, okay, when we worked onthis 15 years ago, and I can actually pull
(29:33):
out the information and say, and then whenwe worked eight years ago on that project.
Right.
that's a great party game too.
Because it's like, we talked about that in2000 You're still saying that's priority
what comes up for me just in the thingsthat that you just talked about Sharon was
(29:54):
I'm this whole design thinking this wholeiterating thing because I grew up in a
time where it's like there's one answer.
we had a scarcity of information.
I had the book of knowledge.
That's all that existed, the at homeencyclopedia or the book at the library.
(30:15):
So now it's like completely differentwhere we've got this glut of information
and there's not just one answer.
There could be a million answers.
Sharon (30:24):
Yeah, it's helping me realize one way we can provide value as we
tinker and learn is, what are the skills.
Of the AI age, you know, asyou said, left of information.
So being able to create content and shareinformation, it's not that it doesn't have
(30:46):
any value, but there may be now increasedvalue in curating existing information
and evaluating sources and being able todiscern like what is valuable and why.
In a history undergraduate degree.
And so just knowing the basics oflike primary sources versus secondary
(31:07):
sources and being able to explainwhy this source of information
might be better than others.
You know, one of the concernswith AI itself is that it's often
using math, using statistics togenerate answers or content from,
(31:27):
you know, data that's already in it.
Databanks.
So it's not necessarily goingout and looking for what are the
most reputable sources a greatlibrarian or newsletter editor does.
That's not what your AI tool is doing.
So, so then that brings in.
Okay, so if we can understand.
(31:48):
Where the tool works enough to understandits strengths and limitations how
do we figure out where The skillsfor leaders in this age need to
be in terms of filling those gaps
Angela (32:03):
the first thing in my petri dish in learning myself
and helping others is how.
We all go back to being five yearsold when we learn something new.
when I went to art school last year,I felt like I was in grade seven that
(32:25):
kind of, why do we have to do that?
I see that anxiety of learningthat everybody else knows that I
don't know how to get a QR code.
Right.
I don't know what a QR code is for.
And I don't know what I do with it.
Right.
That the, with new technology, newconcepts, I think we're all thrown
(32:48):
back to when we were introducedto a new concept at some point
where we were afraid we'd fail.
And where you're talking aboutthe crossing your hands, I've
been doing something similar withpickles, do you know pickles?
It's like a whiteboard youcan draw with your finger.
Yeah.
So I'd start a workshop and it's like,okay, we're going to draw a picture.
(33:13):
with your non dominant hand youcan't take your finger off the
screen and you're going to do this.
to get to that point, people hadto be able to access, do a QR
code, access Pickles, learn it.
And I'm like, help yourneighbor, help your neighbor.
by the end of the second day, Isay, okay, so what we're going to
(33:34):
do is we're going to draw your face.
The first day, it's like, I want you todraw your face with a non dominant hand.
Well, the next day it's like.
Draw your face with a nondominant hand using pickles.
Everybody knows how to get on.
They, now they're using colors.
getting fancy with it.
(33:54):
now I can talk about learning concepts.
They had the experience of not knowingand knowing how to use technology in
a short period how does that translatewith concepts like talking to an
employer and asking them great questions?
You're going to go through that samefear you had in, in learning pickles.
(34:17):
That took five minutes, right?
Then you're going to havein sitting with an employer.
So being able to not, you know,in a responsible and safe way,
take them through learning androle plays are about that too.
But take them through that learning.
So they're more confidentwhen they're out in the world.
Sharon (34:36):
And I think that's why people who have this experience and knowledge around.
Training facilitation will be veryhelpful as we have many people
learning new things at once.
we're trying to teach peoplewithin our own sectors, but I think
there's also that broader skillset that we bring of what is it.
(34:58):
That helps people as whoare adults in their work.
learn something that theymay be intimidated to learn.
Yeah.
That may be an uncomfortablesituation, but that they, you know,
find themselves suddenly needing tolearn whether they want to or not.
Both (35:12):
Mm-Hmm.
. Sharon: Yeah.
when we designed this workshop lastweek, one thing that came up was it
was a department in which you had.
The top leadership, and then youhad sort of the middle management.
the top leadership, typically theyare people who are older because
they've got more experience.
(35:33):
So they've been promoted to those roles.
and so it wasn't true across the board,but many of them feel like they have had
to learn so many different technologies.
They don't know.
Is it really worth learning yet?
Another technology?
we had 1 person recently beenhaving issues with their eyesight.
they're trying to navigate.
Not just the tech, but alimitation with eyesight.
(35:56):
So, different barriers.
it ended up being helpful to havetop leadership go through the
exercises first and get out concernsor anxieties with their peer group.
Before the next layer of leadership, notbecause we were trying to be exclusive or
anything, but it's just sort of recognize,like, desire to not be embarrassed in
(36:17):
front of people you supervise, you know,you're supposed to be the leader guiding
them and feel out of your element.
that can be intimidating.
Angela (36:24):
when you asked about the human part, where's the human part, and you use
the word empathy, that is something asfacilitators and trainers that we bring
as humans creating safe learning spaceswhere people can learn, like you said,
is it time to bring in the team, or isit time for you to go through your own,
(36:47):
As a leader, your own stages change here,before you bring other people in and
AI is not going to be able to do that.
Sharon (36:58):
You know,
Angela (36:58):
that human connection will still be necessary.
we're reading the room, meetingpeople where they're at.
trying to figure outwhat's really going on.
with this goal of, Makingit better, not worse.
Sharon (37:13):
these have been great insights.
I appreciate you chatting with me Is thereanything I didn't ask you or we didn't
talk about that you wanted to include
Angela (37:22):
I think going back to the Book of Knowledge when we look at our workforce
now, and young people, I look at my,my children, my daughters who are 30
and 27 that say, you know, Mom, we'reold now compared to these young people.
They didn't have, you know, Facebooktill they were in high school.
They didn't have.
a smartphone until they, were ingrade 12, maybe, Where for me, I
(37:48):
started out using a manual typewriter.
and I've had to, yeah,like cry me a river.
I had to learn a new tool.
I had to I graduated to electric, right?
our workforce now is made up of so manydifferent generations that have had
different experiences and introductions.
And you asked me, you know,when was I introduced to AI?
(38:08):
It's like, when was Iintroduced to a computer?
You know, where, where childrennow are born and it's like, I
got one when I got a smartphonewhen I'm eight months old, right?
Where I didn't get mine till I was.
45.
And with all of these differentgenerations, you know, I remember hearing
(38:31):
that for people with disabilities, thattechnology was going to be the great
equalizer for people with disabilities.
And I see that, that, that technologyis too, especially for these, if
you, if you're willing to learn,it doesn't matter how old you are.
you're willing to say, okay, I don't knowthe answer and I'm, there's new tools out
(38:53):
there and I'm, I'm going to learn them,but I'm also going to keep my emotional
intelligence keep reflecting on myselfsupporting others and figuring out how
humans, we work together, but how cantechnology help us work better together?
Sharon (39:10):
yeah, I love that.
it reminds me that also people havedifferent, because of how they've been
exposed to technology at different timesin their life or their career, they
have different expectations for whatlearning a new technology looks like.
Yes, this group that I was in,one of the older members who's
very eager to use the tools.
(39:31):
She said, where's the course thatI can take in this, where's the
manual, you know, like, yeah.
Okay.
Someone says we're going to roll outthis new technology, attend the courses.
Here's the manual.
Here's the screenshots that showyou what to click when, you know,
and she's, that's how she's learned
Many years new technology andstayed abreast of what's going on.
(39:54):
now she's being askedto just play with it.
She's like, yeah, about that.
I don't know if I justwant to play with it.
I would much rathersomeone walk me through it.
So I can build my confidence with it.
Angela (40:07):
Mm hmm.
Yeah, yeah, And this is why groups likethe AI tinkerers group are important to
be with other facilitators, consultants,coaches, that are also learning, I
feel like I'm part of a community, eventhough I only see people on Zoom, the
(40:30):
safety of knowing here we are, we'reall in this Petri dish, we're all giving
it a whirl, and that's the only way.
Things are moving so fast that thecourse will be irrelevant by next week.
Right, and that is something for thoseof us, me, who's an applied learner,
(40:51):
this is like, woohoo, you know, this ishow I've always learned things, because
those other methods don't work for me.
Sharon (40:58):
I was lucky enough to be a part of a group similar to this.
an ad hoc learning developmentprofessionals group Started during the
pandemic for facilitators and trainers,they were having to rapidly learn all
the features on zoom and all the featureson any other digital facilitation tools.
And so we would get together and someonewould demo practice something together
(41:21):
and do it in a safe environment before we.
Did it in front of our clients.
So
Angela (41:28):
is it still going?
Sharon (41:29):
it was.
a group that formed when people had alot of time because all their things
had been postponed or canceled andall supported each other and then
once we all got busy again withwork and had felt more comfortable
Angela (41:44):
The thing you just use the word time and that is the the thing with
technology and and and learning all thisAI stuff is the importance of discipline
I'm finding with myself it's like I, I, Idon't need to be on the tinkerers group or
learning all of this stuff all the time.
(42:06):
Right.
I need to say I'm giving myself a halfhour a day to see what's out there and
really stick to that because we haveto put brackets around these things
or, how do we get anything else done?
I find Sharon with chat.
I need to know, three answers is enough.
I could be doing this for two hours,but half an hour is enough talk about
(42:33):
emotional intelligence with teams and howdo you work most productively together.
But it's what I learned from David Allenand getting things done is discipline.
We hate it and we need it andwe're certainly going to need it
as things change and move forwardwith AI and everything else
Sharon (42:51):
one of the things I've gotten the most positive feedback
on from clients lately is teachingthem about boundary setting.
Yeah, I really do feel like we'rein an era of boundaries being a
high priority for professionalsuccess and understanding how to
set them and enforce them, or, Yeah.
(43:14):
It's no fun,
Angela (43:16):
Sharon.
Sharon (43:17):
It's not fun.
It's fun when you have the time.
I know it's important,
Angela (43:21):
what do you mean you're going to clip my wings?
What the heck?
Sharon (43:26):
Yeah, because they are
Angela (43:28):
important.
Boundaries are important.
Definitely.
Sharon (43:30):
Yeah, there's a great resource.
I'll put it on the podcast shownotes, it's called the set boundaries
deck, a card deck around boundarybasics and situations you need
to set your boundaries with.
Angela (43:44):
I will look for that in the show notes for sure.
Sharon (43:48):
And how can people follow you or connect with you if they want
to include that in the show notes
Angela (43:54):
my name is Angela Hoyt.
My company is Evolution Group Inc.
and you can find me onLinkedIn under Angela Hoyt.
don't do Facebook or Twitter anymore.
LinkedIn is a great place to get me.
Sharon (44:07):
do you only work with people in Canada or across the border as well?
Angela (44:13):
I work remotely.
in person in Canada,remotely everywhere else.
Thanks.
Excellent.
Sharon (44:21):
thank you for being willing to hop in with me.
And I enjoy also being a colleaguein the Tinkerer's Club and, the
discoveries we're making week after week.
So I look forward to staying in touch.
Angela (44:33):
thank you Sharon, for this opportunity and teaching me so much,
I'm looking forward to continuingthat learning journey with you.
Thank you for joining us on this episodeof AI for Helpers and Changemakers.
For the show notes and moreinformation about working with
Sharon, visit bloomfacilitation.
com.
If you have a suggestion for whowe should interview, email us
(44:53):
at hello at bloomfacilitation.
com.
And finally, please share thisepisode with someone you think
would find it interesting.
Word of mouth is our best marketing.
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