May 7, 2025 • 23 mins
The Institute of Internal Auditors Presents: All Things Internal Audit
In this episode, The IIA’s Lindsay Patterson talks with Anna Davis of Qualcomm about the crucial aspects of internal audit team formation and dynamics. They discuss hiring strategies in the current market, the importance of soft and hard skills, the challenges and benefits of remote and in-office work, and methods for fostering a strong team culture.
HOST:
Lindsay Patterson, CIA, CPA
Executive Vice President , Membership, Marketing and Communications, The IIA
GUEST:
Anna Davis, CPA
Vice President, CAE, Qualcomm
Key Points
- Introduction [00:00-00:22]
- Team Formation: Starting with Hiring [00:23-01:34]
- In-Office Work and Recruitment Challenges [01:35-04:13]
- Hard and Soft Skills and Business Acumen [04:14-06:00]
- Retention and Career Growth Opportunities [06:01-07:05]
- Team Size and Responsibilities [07:06-07:44]
- Building a Team Culture [07:45-10:32]
- The Value of Authentic Leadership [10:33-12:03]
- Advice for Aspiring Audit Leaders [12:04-13:44]
- Final Thoughts [13:45-14:44]
The IIA Related Content
Interested in this topic? Visit the links below for more resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
The Institute of Internal Auditors presents all
things internal audit.
In this episode, the i's Lindsey Patterson talks
with Ana Davis of Qualcomm about the crucial aspects
of internal audit, team formation and dynamics.
Their conversation covers hiring strategies in the current
market, the importance of soft
and hard skills, the challenges and benefits of remote
(00:23):
and in-office work and methods
for fostering a strong team culture.
Let's get started with the beginning
of the team formation process. Hiring.
Yes. So what are you looking
for in an internal audit hire today?
So it's an interesting market right now,
(00:46):
and for Qualcomm specifically, we've
had a lot going on the past few years post pandemic.
So originally during the pandemic we were fully remote.
Okay. And then we went to two days a week in the office.
Then we went to four days a week in the office
and we just announced
(01:07):
that in October we're gonna be doing five days a
week in the office.
Okay. And so our recruiting strategy
over the past few years has evolved
because we didn't know long-term that we were gonna go
to five days a week in the office.
And so at different points in time we were articulating
(01:29):
different workplace expectations.
And so it really has been a lot to,
I would imagine, so keep up with that.
And then also for the different recruits
that join along the way, getting them up
to speed on the changes
and expectations of executive management.
(01:49):
So currently when we recruit, we have to tell people
that we're five days a week in the office
and we've always had flexibility.
So there is still, you know,
you can set your own hours essentially and all of that,
but that is a big part of how we have to recruit today.
And we're based out of San Diego, California.
(02:12):
And so it's a pretty big market, but it's not huge.
And so just getting enough people in San Diego
with the skill sets we need
that can come into the office five days a week
is challenging.
And so we do have to go outside
and actually like look to relocate people.
(02:34):
But I would say a big thing that we're articulating
to our potential recruits is really the expectations about
adaptability, flexibility.
We're looking for people with good soft skills
and that can really get up
to speed from a business acumen perspective
(02:55):
as quickly as possible.
So I know that a lot of CAEs that you'll talk to will say
that knowing the business
and understanding the business is really important.
But I would say at Qualcomm, we're a company of engineers
and our business is a bit complex and technical.
And so really looking for candidates
(03:17):
that won't be intimidated
or shied away from doing the work that's needed
to really understand the business
and build that credibility.
You know, that aligns perfectly with
what we're seeing in our own research.
Uh, we had the vision 2035 report come out.
Our foundation did some pipeline research
(03:38):
and when you talk to CAEs across the world,
it was those soft skills that really came to the top.
It's, you know, business acumen in general,
communication skills, um, yes, the,
the ability to take initiative.
And we always talk about those as being like,
these are soft skills, but they're so hard to hire for.
Yes. They're, they're hard skills.
Yes. So in that experience, you're trying
(03:59):
to find these skills within your new hires.
You mentioned five days a week.
I would love to hit on that a little bit more.
The five days a week. Yes. How do you
separate yourself from other organizations
and make yourself competitive?
Yes. For Hiring.
For hiring. Yeah. I mean, we'll see where this goes
because it is unchartered territory.
(04:19):
Before the pandemic, it was status quo
and so it wasn't as much of a hard sell,
but now it really is a hard sell.
And so we're looking to promote other benefits
of the company
and we really do have a lot of cool technology.
And so some people are attracted to that.
(04:42):
So we basically invented the technology
that has enabled smartphones.
Oh, okay. Well yeah, that's pretty cool.
Yes. So that is a draw
and it's a fast-paced environment.
We have a lot of internal opportunities
where you can grow your career.
(05:02):
I've been with Qualcomm since 2011
and this is my third role.
And so there are a lot of opportunities to move around
And to move up it sounds like.
Yes. To move up, yes.
I joined as a director in 2011
and then had, this is my third role as I mentioned,
(05:23):
I've been CAE since 2018.
So that's a big benefit.
Uh, and then just giving people exposure to specific areas
that they're interested in.
And we'll see how it goes. We'll see
How it works out. How big is your audit team?
My audit team is 23 individuals
(05:44):
and we're responsible for internal audit SOX
and ERM for sox.
We do co-source with KPMG.
So if you factor in those hours
and FTEs, it's more like 30 ish.
That's a decent sized team. Yes.
That's, that's pretty good. Yes.
We see a lot of, you know, small teams, five
to 10, so that's a nice size. Yes.
(06:06):
And in tech in general, we're pretty lean.
We're not a regulated type
of business like financial services
and insurance that have the huge audit teams.
So yeah, it's good
and it really forces us to prioritize
what the most important risk areas are
and also priorities of the company.
(06:28):
And so that's always a good healthy thing to do.
Okay. So earlier I had asked about those soft skills. Yes.
Of if you were looking for a specific internal audit skill
for your new hires, I'm thinking entry level
internal auditors, what would the hard skill be?
I would say comfort with technology.
(06:48):
And so we have our audit methodology
and we've incorporated formally data analytics into it.
And we also have Microsoft copilot
and other AI applications available to us.
We use audit board for our internal audit
and sox uh, tool.
(07:10):
But someone that really embraces
and feels comfortable just going to that on their own
and not as part of an initiative or being reminded
or part of the methodology.
Just incorporating that data analytics
into your everyday Yes.
Work. Yes. That's so important in
that I keep going back to Anthony's uh,
(07:30):
presentation a couple days ago,
but that was something else that he talked about.
Seeing, you know, even out
of our own research from Vision 2035, that so many
CAEs say data analytics is a top
skill that everybody needs to have.
But then very few of them would say that they have
that skill or that their teams have that skill.
Yes. Yes. So how do you foster
(07:51):
that culture within your company?
We actually updated our methodology to require steps
to consider data analytics.
And so it's required in our methodology
and we have a couple champions, DA champions that
are essentially the power users
(08:12):
and act as mentors and coaches.
And we have one person
that actually has office hours every week.
Oh, that's kind of them. Yes.
So that everyone feels comfortable going to these people.
So that's worked well so far.
Okay. Well that starts to touch on culture.
So let's move into the culture piece.
(08:33):
You've hired these great internal auditors that you know,
have the skills, they have the
hard skills, they have the soft skills.
Now how do you get them to work together
and be a cohesive team?
Yes. So a lot of
that is personality and chemistry.
And I think it starts with tone from the top
and then also my leadership team in terms of expectations.
(08:56):
That is the culture that we want to
demonstrate and promote.
And so really being helpful, flexible, I think
Qualcomm itself as a company can be a bit intimidating
to onboard because we have a lot of different parts
of our business and it's always changing and dynamic.
(09:18):
And so a lot of it is relationships and knowing where to go.
So we do with our coaching
and mentoring, spend a lot of time making sure people get up
to speed as fast as possible, but also promoting
and leading by example on the type of culture
and relationships that we wanna build.
(09:39):
So you mentioned mentoring.
Do you guys have a formal mentorship program
within the organization?
The internal audit team? Yep.
We have one for the company.
You're assigned a new hire mentor
and then within our audit team as well, everyone
that joins is assigned a mentor.
I love that. And I think that's something
that even smaller internal audit teams can do.
Maybe not within the team itself,
(10:00):
but having that mentor within the company.
Yes. Because like what you said about relationships,
life is all about relationships.
Yes. And knowing who to go to and what questions to ask.
And that's can be a learned skill, especially with new hires
or people fresh out of college who Yes.
Haven't had that office experience yet.
Do you see that in your hires that that's like a challenge
(10:23):
for a certain generation or any specific group?
I would say it is a mixed bag in terms of what I see.
Some people feel really comfortable
embracing the mentor relationship
and actually being open about questions that they have
and other people are a little more hesitant.
Yeah. And so some of it could be culturally
(10:44):
we have a really diverse workforce
and so some people are more open and confident
and others are a little more reserved.
But one thing that I do is I do a lot
of skip levels in my organization. So important.
Love that you do that Every quarter I talk to everyone
in my organization to keep a pulse in how they're doing.
(11:07):
And then also for our top talent,
I do monthly one-on-ones with them.
Oh. To give them extra attention support,
hear their perspective.
I love that. So how do you identify your top talent?
It bubbles up on its own, I would say.
So the people that take initiative mm-hmm.
(11:27):
Are just going above and beyond of their own doing.
And then it turns out those are the people
we go to all the time.
Yeah. When something new comes up,
we know they're capable and trust them.
And so I would say
after three to six months you kind of get a feel
for who these people are.
(11:49):
I would agree on the initiative piece.
As somebody who is also hired
and coach top many staff members over my career,
just the ability to take initiative
is such a wonderful skill to see.
And I don't think that you see it all of the time. Yes.
And it can be taught a little bit
because there's that extrovert, introvert dynamic sometimes
(12:09):
that comes into play.
So it may not be natural to everybody,
but teaching that skillset
and finding it, it's just that's the unicorn that you want.
Yes. And for those new people in internal audit
or in any career, I think they might be worried sometimes
like, well what if I do this?
What if something goes wrong?
And for the most part, I always tell my team,
(12:30):
I don't know if you agree or if you've told your team this.
I'm like, there is very little you can do in taking
initiative that's gonna bring this whole company down.
Right. Just try. Yes. Like
Yes. Try something.
Let's see what happens. Yes.
And worst case scenario,
you might gain some experience. Yes.
We recently had someone join our team from
within the business.
(12:51):
So we have a 60 40 strategy for our talent
where 60% we want to be professional auditors
that spent most of their career in auditing.
Okay. But 40% we would want to come from the business.
And so we think that balance gives good overall
talent that we need to connect with the business
(13:13):
because the professional lifetime auditors have those
technical skills that we need to make sure we comply with.
I I a standards. We have our QAR every five years.
And then we have the business, uh, people that join
that have the relationships and know the ins and outs.
And so together it's a well-balanced perspective.
(13:37):
And we recently had someone join the team from the business
and so they were totally new to audit
and trying to get the lay of the land in terms
of how it all works.
And I told her, it's okay if you make a mistake. Yes.
The one thing, the one thing
that we don't wanna make a mistake on is our
(13:59):
audit conclusions.
So we're a shop that gives an audit conclusion. Mm-hmm.
Not every company does, but we do.
And so there's a lot
that goes into making sure we get that right.
And presumably there's gonna be some layers
of review in that. Yes.
And yes, we do a whole calibration process
with our leadership team to make sure
(14:21):
that we're assessing this similar
to other audits that we do.
And so we have a really robust process, I feel like,
around reaching conclusions.
So I told this person, that's the one thing
we're gonna nail every time.
But other than that, if you, you know,
you make a mistake along the way,
(14:42):
that's how you're gonna learn.
Right. We all do it and the team is all here to support you.
And I think how you respond to those mistakes
as a leader really matters too.
Yes. Because right, you want your team team to see
that it really is okay that we're not just saying it,
but if something is, you know,
wrong on the website, yes, it's fine.
You can fix it. It's usually not
gonna be the end of the world.
Yes. So showing that leadership
(15:04):
and letting them know it's truly okay to make mistakes.
Okay. I wanna go back to something else
you said that I really liked.
'cause you mentioned that 40%
of your team is coming from within the business itself.
Yes. And we see, you know,
across the board in North America,
but in many other countries too, especially like Europe,
the vast majority of internal auditors continue to come from
that accounting background accounting or finance.
(15:24):
We see over 80% of them do,
yet we always hear the profession say like, we need more,
you know, technical skills, more people from engineering
or from marketing or from different backgrounds.
But it sounds like you 40% is a great number.
So how have you been able to recruit those people?
It's been a journey and we built it into our audit
(15:46):
strategy that we specifically want to
rotate in a number of folks every year.
And I share that metric
with the audit committee once a year. And
So the business unit, um, staff that come in,
those are rotational auditors.
Yeah. I mean, we ask for a three year commitment. Okay.
(16:07):
And so, and they're welcome to stay.
So it's not a formal rotation
where we tell them when they come in,
after X time you're leaving, we say, we love
to have your experience and perspective.
We want at least two and a half to three years.
If you wanna stay longer, it's totally open.
(16:29):
So that's our perspective.
And so our, my leadership team is tasked
with maintaining relationships and always having a pipeline
and discussion with different folks that could be potential
candidates to come in.
And so it's a lot of networking.
We have different employee groups that we network with.
(16:53):
And some of it is through just word of mouth in terms
of people expressing interest that they might be wanna come
to audit at some point.
And so really we just keep in touch
with these people and nurture that.
And then as opportunities come up, reach out.
What would you say is one of the driving factors
for somebody who's within the business
(17:14):
wanting to come to internal audit?
What makes your team so much better than the others?
So yeah, I mean we've recently recruited a couple people
into audit from the business.
And for a big company like Qualcomm,
when you're out in the business somewhere,
you're pretty much doing one specific part of the company.
(17:34):
So you might have a very narrow scope of responsibility.
And so one of the great draws is really just the exposure
to the whole business that we get.
We still get to see finance,
but we also get to see engineering, supply chain, it
really the whole thing.
And then we do travel for some of our audits.
(17:57):
And that's also a big draw
because I do believe there's nothing like seeing the
business in action to really understand what we do.
And so those are two big draws for us.
And I think those are things that other businesses
and organizations can really lean into as well.
Highlighting that we talk about it all the time when you're
(18:20):
looking at college students
who might be majoring in accounting right now, for example.
Mm-hmm. A lot of us never heard
of internal audit in college.
Yes. I had never heard of it.
Had you? Yes. You had, you'd heard of internal audit in
College, uh, I mean maybe briefly Yeah.
In my auditing, but it wasn't a career people
were going into.
Exactly. Yes. And the, we have
(18:40):
to get better about promoting that as a profession,
but like you have these great opportunities outside
of just going into public accounting in the big four.
Yes. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Yes, yes.
But there are other options.
And internal audit for the reasons you just said is one
of those really great options.
And it is a great foundational learning place when you do
come into a company because you do get all of
(19:02):
that exposure across the whole business.
And for a company like Qualcomm, we promote rotations.
And so we really are a pipeline
to sending people out into the business.
This is probably a good opportunity to talk about.
We did recruit, uh, one person straight out of college, so
that's not our typical recruiting.
(19:25):
We normally look for someone with a few years of experience
and we do recruit from big four
or other companies with internal audit.
But one of our top performers was someone
that we took a chance with straight out of college.
And really we were able to train them
and mold them right to our methodology.
(19:47):
They were also super advanced on the technical side.
So they're one of our leading innovators in the use of AI
for audit and then also audit board capabilities.
So for those audit shops out there that may not really go
to universities or hire someone straight out of college,
it's been really successful for us.
(20:09):
I'm so glad to hear that one,
because I think it is a great example to other shops
that there's, you know, there's talent out there
and like you said, you can mold them to Yes.
What you want that individual to be in that role.
But also, I'm very glad that you said that.
'cause I was going to ask how they worked out
and it would've been very awkward if you said orally
and then they listened to this podcast later. Yes.
So Very glad that it worked out well for you guys.
(20:32):
Yeah. Okay. So if you were going to tell a individ
or an individual who is interested in a career in internal
audit, like one thing
that they should know, what do you think that is?
I would say it's super interesting.
Uh, I don't know if I can limit it to one thing That's okay.
(20:52):
But it is super interesting.
It's also, I think, will build a lot of good skills
that you'll need for any role.
It's highly visible, it's super demanding,
but that also makes it very rewarding.
And I love the exposure to the business,
the relationships that you'll make.
(21:12):
It opens I think a ton of doors for you,
whatever way, way you wanna take your career.
Well, thank you. You also gave some great advice on like
hiring, um, especially college students and taking off
or taking the chance there.
But for those audit teams that are wanting
to really hire great talent
and develop great talent,
(21:34):
what's the big takeaway you would give them?
I would say look for the cultural fit.
And for us right now, it really is resilience
and confidence that we're looking
for more than the heads down technical skills.
So it's a lot to go from
(21:57):
Auditee to Auditee.
It's not like your typical finance
or other company position where you always are working
with the same business partners every 12 weeks.
For us, you're onto a new project
with new business partners.
And so really looking for someone who feels comfortable with
that and has tough skin, but yet is polished
(22:19):
and has soft, has soft skills.
So it's a lot.
So tough skin, but shiny. Yes. Yes.
Like a twilight Vampire.
Yes. Anything else you
would want our listeners to know?
I would just say that, you know, embrace everything
that's going on right now.
I think it's a really dynamic time
(22:41):
between everything going on from a technology perspective
as well as just the environment in general.
As a country, in the competitive world, there's,
everything is changing day to day
and audits at the center of all of it in terms
of thinking about for your business,
(23:02):
what the priorities are in the top risk areas.
And so really embrace it and go with it.
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today, Anna.
I really appreciated our chat. Thanks.
Small internal audit teams boost your efficiency at the
2025 audit sphere.
This one day virtual conference on June 17th offers expert
(23:25):
strategies and practical tools just for you.
Register now@theiia.org.
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That's THE iia.org.
The Institute of Internal Auditors presents all
things internal audit.
In this episode, the i's Lindsey Patterson talks
with Ana Davis of Qualcomm about the crucial aspects
of internal audit, team formation and dynamics.
Their conversation covers hiring strategies in the current
market, the importance of soft
and hard skills, the challenges and benefits of remote
(00:23):
and in-office work and methods
for fostering a strong team culture.
Let's get started with the beginning
of the team formation process. Hiring.
Yes. So what are you looking
for in an internal audit hire today?
So it's an interesting market right now,
(00:46):
and for Qualcomm specifically, we've
had a lot going on the past few years post pandemic.
So originally during the pandemic we were fully remote.
Okay. And then we went to two days a week in the office.
Then we went to four days a week in the office
and we just announced
(01:07):
that in October we're gonna be doing five days a
week in the office.
Okay. And so our recruiting strategy
over the past few years has evolved
because we didn't know long-term that we were gonna go
to five days a week in the office.
And so at different points in time we were articulating
(01:29):
different workplace expectations.
And so it really has been a lot to,
I would imagine, so keep up with that.
And then also for the different recruits
that join along the way, getting them up
to speed on the changes
and expectations of executive management.
(01:49):
So currently when we recruit, we have to tell people
that we're five days a week in the office
and we've always had flexibility.
So there is still, you know,
you can set your own hours essentially and all of that,
but that is a big part of how we have to recruit today.
And we're based out of San Diego, California.
(02:12):
And so it's a pretty big market, but it's not huge.
And so just getting enough people in San Diego
with the skill sets we need
that can come into the office five days a week
is challenging.
And so we do have to go outside
and actually like look to relocate people.
(02:34):
But I would say a big thing that we're articulating
to our potential recruits is really the expectations about
adaptability, flexibility.
We're looking for people with good soft skills
and that can really get up
to speed from a business acumen perspective
(02:55):
as quickly as possible.
So I know that a lot of CAEs that you'll talk to will say
that knowing the business
and understanding the business is really important.
But I would say at Qualcomm, we're a company of engineers
and our business is a bit complex and technical.
And so really looking for candidates
(03:17):
that won't be intimidated
or shied away from doing the work that's needed
to really understand the business
and build that credibility.
You know, that aligns perfectly with
what we're seeing in our own research.
Uh, we had the vision 2035 report come out.
Our foundation did some pipeline research
(03:38):
and when you talk to CAEs across the world,
it was those soft skills that really came to the top.
It's, you know, business acumen in general,
communication skills, um, yes, the,
the ability to take initiative.
And we always talk about those as being like,
these are soft skills, but they're so hard to hire for.
Yes. They're, they're hard skills.
Yes. So in that experience, you're trying
(03:59):
to find these skills within your new hires.
You mentioned five days a week.
I would love to hit on that a little bit more.
The five days a week. Yes. How do you
separate yourself from other organizations
and make yourself competitive?
Yes. For Hiring.
For hiring. Yeah. I mean, we'll see where this goes
because it is unchartered territory.
(04:19):
Before the pandemic, it was status quo
and so it wasn't as much of a hard sell,
but now it really is a hard sell.
And so we're looking to promote other benefits
of the company
and we really do have a lot of cool technology.
And so some people are attracted to that.
(04:42):
So we basically invented the technology
that has enabled smartphones.
Oh, okay. Well yeah, that's pretty cool.
Yes. So that is a draw
and it's a fast-paced environment.
We have a lot of internal opportunities
where you can grow your career.
(05:02):
I've been with Qualcomm since 2011
and this is my third role.
And so there are a lot of opportunities to move around
And to move up it sounds like.
Yes. To move up, yes.
I joined as a director in 2011
and then had, this is my third role as I mentioned,
(05:23):
I've been CAE since 2018.
So that's a big benefit.
Uh, and then just giving people exposure to specific areas
that they're interested in.
And we'll see how it goes. We'll see
How it works out. How big is your audit team?
My audit team is 23 individuals
(05:44):
and we're responsible for internal audit SOX
and ERM for sox.
We do co-source with KPMG.
So if you factor in those hours
and FTEs, it's more like 30 ish.
That's a decent sized team. Yes.
That's, that's pretty good. Yes.
We see a lot of, you know, small teams, five
to 10, so that's a nice size. Yes.
(06:06):
And in tech in general, we're pretty lean.
We're not a regulated type
of business like financial services
and insurance that have the huge audit teams.
So yeah, it's good
and it really forces us to prioritize
what the most important risk areas are
and also priorities of the company.
(06:28):
And so that's always a good healthy thing to do.
Okay. So earlier I had asked about those soft skills. Yes.
Of if you were looking for a specific internal audit skill
for your new hires, I'm thinking entry level
internal auditors, what would the hard skill be?
I would say comfort with technology.
(06:48):
And so we have our audit methodology
and we've incorporated formally data analytics into it.
And we also have Microsoft copilot
and other AI applications available to us.
We use audit board for our internal audit
and sox uh, tool.
(07:10):
But someone that really embraces
and feels comfortable just going to that on their own
and not as part of an initiative or being reminded
or part of the methodology.
Just incorporating that data analytics
into your everyday Yes.
Work. Yes. That's so important in
that I keep going back to Anthony's uh,
(07:30):
presentation a couple days ago,
but that was something else that he talked about.
Seeing, you know, even out
of our own research from Vision 2035, that so many
CAEs say data analytics is a top
skill that everybody needs to have.
But then very few of them would say that they have
that skill or that their teams have that skill.
Yes. Yes. So how do you foster
(07:51):
that culture within your company?
We actually updated our methodology to require steps
to consider data analytics.
And so it's required in our methodology
and we have a couple champions, DA champions that
are essentially the power users
(08:12):
and act as mentors and coaches.
And we have one person
that actually has office hours every week.
Oh, that's kind of them. Yes.
So that everyone feels comfortable going to these people.
So that's worked well so far.
Okay. Well that starts to touch on culture.
So let's move into the culture piece.
(08:33):
You've hired these great internal auditors that you know,
have the skills, they have the
hard skills, they have the soft skills.
Now how do you get them to work together
and be a cohesive team?
Yes. So a lot of
that is personality and chemistry.
And I think it starts with tone from the top
and then also my leadership team in terms of expectations.
(08:56):
That is the culture that we want to
demonstrate and promote.
And so really being helpful, flexible, I think
Qualcomm itself as a company can be a bit intimidating
to onboard because we have a lot of different parts
of our business and it's always changing and dynamic.
(09:18):
And so a lot of it is relationships and knowing where to go.
So we do with our coaching
and mentoring, spend a lot of time making sure people get up
to speed as fast as possible, but also promoting
and leading by example on the type of culture
and relationships that we wanna build.
(09:39):
So you mentioned mentoring.
Do you guys have a formal mentorship program
within the organization?
The internal audit team? Yep.
We have one for the company.
You're assigned a new hire mentor
and then within our audit team as well, everyone
that joins is assigned a mentor.
I love that. And I think that's something
that even smaller internal audit teams can do.
Maybe not within the team itself,
(10:00):
but having that mentor within the company.
Yes. Because like what you said about relationships,
life is all about relationships.
Yes. And knowing who to go to and what questions to ask.
And that's can be a learned skill, especially with new hires
or people fresh out of college who Yes.
Haven't had that office experience yet.
Do you see that in your hires that that's like a challenge
(10:23):
for a certain generation or any specific group?
I would say it is a mixed bag in terms of what I see.
Some people feel really comfortable
embracing the mentor relationship
and actually being open about questions that they have
and other people are a little more hesitant.
Yeah. And so some of it could be culturally
(10:44):
we have a really diverse workforce
and so some people are more open and confident
and others are a little more reserved.
But one thing that I do is I do a lot
of skip levels in my organization. So important.
Love that you do that Every quarter I talk to everyone
in my organization to keep a pulse in how they're doing.
(11:07):
And then also for our top talent,
I do monthly one-on-ones with them.
Oh. To give them extra attention support,
hear their perspective.
I love that. So how do you identify your top talent?
It bubbles up on its own, I would say.
So the people that take initiative mm-hmm.
(11:27):
Are just going above and beyond of their own doing.
And then it turns out those are the people
we go to all the time.
Yeah. When something new comes up,
we know they're capable and trust them.
And so I would say
after three to six months you kind of get a feel
for who these people are.
(11:49):
I would agree on the initiative piece.
As somebody who is also hired
and coach top many staff members over my career,
just the ability to take initiative
is such a wonderful skill to see.
And I don't think that you see it all of the time. Yes.
And it can be taught a little bit
because there's that extrovert, introvert dynamic sometimes
(12:09):
that comes into play.
So it may not be natural to everybody,
but teaching that skillset
and finding it, it's just that's the unicorn that you want.
Yes. And for those new people in internal audit
or in any career, I think they might be worried sometimes
like, well what if I do this?
What if something goes wrong?
And for the most part, I always tell my team,
(12:30):
I don't know if you agree or if you've told your team this.
I'm like, there is very little you can do in taking
initiative that's gonna bring this whole company down.
Right. Just try. Yes. Like
Yes. Try something.
Let's see what happens. Yes.
And worst case scenario,
you might gain some experience. Yes.
We recently had someone join our team from
within the business.
(12:51):
So we have a 60 40 strategy for our talent
where 60% we want to be professional auditors
that spent most of their career in auditing.
Okay. But 40% we would want to come from the business.
And so we think that balance gives good overall
talent that we need to connect with the business
(13:13):
because the professional lifetime auditors have those
technical skills that we need to make sure we comply with.
I I a standards. We have our QAR every five years.
And then we have the business, uh, people that join
that have the relationships and know the ins and outs.
And so together it's a well-balanced perspective.
(13:37):
And we recently had someone join the team from the business
and so they were totally new to audit
and trying to get the lay of the land in terms
of how it all works.
And I told her, it's okay if you make a mistake. Yes.
The one thing, the one thing
that we don't wanna make a mistake on is our
(13:59):
audit conclusions.
So we're a shop that gives an audit conclusion. Mm-hmm.
Not every company does, but we do.
And so there's a lot
that goes into making sure we get that right.
And presumably there's gonna be some layers
of review in that. Yes.
And yes, we do a whole calibration process
with our leadership team to make sure
(14:21):
that we're assessing this similar
to other audits that we do.
And so we have a really robust process, I feel like,
around reaching conclusions.
So I told this person, that's the one thing
we're gonna nail every time.
But other than that, if you, you know,
you make a mistake along the way,
(14:42):
that's how you're gonna learn.
Right. We all do it and the team is all here to support you.
And I think how you respond to those mistakes
as a leader really matters too.
Yes. Because right, you want your team team to see
that it really is okay that we're not just saying it,
but if something is, you know,
wrong on the website, yes, it's fine.
You can fix it. It's usually not
gonna be the end of the world.
Yes. So showing that leadership
(15:04):
and letting them know it's truly okay to make mistakes.
Okay. I wanna go back to something else
you said that I really liked.
'cause you mentioned that 40%
of your team is coming from within the business itself.
Yes. And we see, you know,
across the board in North America,
but in many other countries too, especially like Europe,
the vast majority of internal auditors continue to come from
that accounting background accounting or finance.
(15:24):
We see over 80% of them do,
yet we always hear the profession say like, we need more,
you know, technical skills, more people from engineering
or from marketing or from different backgrounds.
But it sounds like you 40% is a great number.
So how have you been able to recruit those people?
It's been a journey and we built it into our audit
(15:46):
strategy that we specifically want to
rotate in a number of folks every year.
And I share that metric
with the audit committee once a year. And
So the business unit, um, staff that come in,
those are rotational auditors.
Yeah. I mean, we ask for a three year commitment. Okay.
(16:07):
And so, and they're welcome to stay.
So it's not a formal rotation
where we tell them when they come in,
after X time you're leaving, we say, we love
to have your experience and perspective.
We want at least two and a half to three years.
If you wanna stay longer, it's totally open.
(16:29):
So that's our perspective.
And so our, my leadership team is tasked
with maintaining relationships and always having a pipeline
and discussion with different folks that could be potential
candidates to come in.
And so it's a lot of networking.
We have different employee groups that we network with.
(16:53):
And some of it is through just word of mouth in terms
of people expressing interest that they might be wanna come
to audit at some point.
And so really we just keep in touch
with these people and nurture that.
And then as opportunities come up, reach out.
What would you say is one of the driving factors
for somebody who's within the business
(17:14):
wanting to come to internal audit?
What makes your team so much better than the others?
So yeah, I mean we've recently recruited a couple people
into audit from the business.
And for a big company like Qualcomm,
when you're out in the business somewhere,
you're pretty much doing one specific part of the company.
(17:34):
So you might have a very narrow scope of responsibility.
And so one of the great draws is really just the exposure
to the whole business that we get.
We still get to see finance,
but we also get to see engineering, supply chain, it
really the whole thing.
And then we do travel for some of our audits.
(17:57):
And that's also a big draw
because I do believe there's nothing like seeing the
business in action to really understand what we do.
And so those are two big draws for us.
And I think those are things that other businesses
and organizations can really lean into as well.
Highlighting that we talk about it all the time when you're
(18:20):
looking at college students
who might be majoring in accounting right now, for example.
Mm-hmm. A lot of us never heard
of internal audit in college.
Yes. I had never heard of it.
Had you? Yes. You had, you'd heard of internal audit in
College, uh, I mean maybe briefly Yeah.
In my auditing, but it wasn't a career people
were going into.
Exactly. Yes. And the, we have
(18:40):
to get better about promoting that as a profession,
but like you have these great opportunities outside
of just going into public accounting in the big four.
Yes. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Yes, yes.
But there are other options.
And internal audit for the reasons you just said is one
of those really great options.
And it is a great foundational learning place when you do
come into a company because you do get all of
(19:02):
that exposure across the whole business.
And for a company like Qualcomm, we promote rotations.
And so we really are a pipeline
to sending people out into the business.
This is probably a good opportunity to talk about.
We did recruit, uh, one person straight out of college, so
that's not our typical recruiting.
(19:25):
We normally look for someone with a few years of experience
and we do recruit from big four
or other companies with internal audit.
But one of our top performers was someone
that we took a chance with straight out of college.
And really we were able to train them
and mold them right to our methodology.
(19:47):
They were also super advanced on the technical side.
So they're one of our leading innovators in the use of AI
for audit and then also audit board capabilities.
So for those audit shops out there that may not really go
to universities or hire someone straight out of college,
it's been really successful for us.
(20:09):
I'm so glad to hear that one,
because I think it is a great example to other shops
that there's, you know, there's talent out there
and like you said, you can mold them to Yes.
What you want that individual to be in that role.
But also, I'm very glad that you said that.
'cause I was going to ask how they worked out
and it would've been very awkward if you said orally
and then they listened to this podcast later. Yes.
So Very glad that it worked out well for you guys.
(20:32):
Yeah. Okay. So if you were going to tell a individ
or an individual who is interested in a career in internal
audit, like one thing
that they should know, what do you think that is?
I would say it's super interesting.
Uh, I don't know if I can limit it to one thing That's okay.
(20:52):
But it is super interesting.
It's also, I think, will build a lot of good skills
that you'll need for any role.
It's highly visible, it's super demanding,
but that also makes it very rewarding.
And I love the exposure to the business,
the relationships that you'll make.
(21:12):
It opens I think a ton of doors for you,
whatever way, way you wanna take your career.
Well, thank you. You also gave some great advice on like
hiring, um, especially college students and taking off
or taking the chance there.
But for those audit teams that are wanting
to really hire great talent
and develop great talent,
(21:34):
what's the big takeaway you would give them?
I would say look for the cultural fit.
And for us right now, it really is resilience
and confidence that we're looking
for more than the heads down technical skills.
So it's a lot to go from
(21:57):
Auditee to Auditee.
It's not like your typical finance
or other company position where you always are working
with the same business partners every 12 weeks.
For us, you're onto a new project
with new business partners.
And so really looking for someone who feels comfortable with
that and has tough skin, but yet is polished
(22:19):
and has soft, has soft skills.
So it's a lot.
So tough skin, but shiny. Yes. Yes.
Like a twilight Vampire.
Yes. Anything else you
would want our listeners to know?
I would just say that, you know, embrace everything
that's going on right now.
I think it's a really dynamic time
(22:41):
between everything going on from a technology perspective
as well as just the environment in general.
As a country, in the competitive world, there's,
everything is changing day to day
and audits at the center of all of it in terms
of thinking about for your business,
(23:02):
what the priorities are in the top risk areas.
And so really embrace it and go with it.
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today, Anna.
I really appreciated our chat. Thanks.
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2025 audit sphere.
This one day virtual conference on June 17th offers expert
(23:25):
strategies and practical tools just for you.
Register now@theiia.org.
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