DH, 14 Revisit: Splinched and Homeless

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is episode four hundred and seventy two of Alohama
for October for twenty twenty five. Welcome to another episode

(00:39):
of Aloha Mora, the fandom's original Harry Potter book Club.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm Beyonca Lynch.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Josh Cook, and I'm Jeff Hutton, and our guest
today is a wonderfully charming individual whose name is fun
to say. Actually, it's Justin Avery Smith. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Thank you so much for that complimenting.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
I only started using my middle name in the past
few years or so.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
It flows very nice. It sounds like a good, like
literary name. It reminds me of like all the hyphenated
characters I half expected to say, like it would look
like Justin Finch Fletchley, Yeah, or Nicholas de To, Mimsey Poppington.
Justin Avery Smith.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
It just it sounds nice exactly, which I was amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
Is jumping the gun a little bit, but I always
thought it was interesting. There's Justin Flinch Fletchley and there's
Zachariah Smith.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Both in Hufflepuff. But I'm not a hufflepuff nah.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
So that actually is a good segue into where we
would like to begin. We want to get your fandom
id information, like your house, your wand patronis, favorite book
and movie. Tell us about Justin Avery Smith. Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:51):
Yeah, so my house is Ravenclaw, which very nice. I
took the Poto more quiz twice. For longest time, I
thought I was a Griffindor, simply because I think just
we spent so much time with the Gryffindor characters. I
was like, oh, well, by proxy. But no, you know
how they say you get more conservative as you get older.
I find I get more raven Claw as I get older.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Ooh, I like that also cannot relate to getting more
conservative as I get older.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
But hey, I said people say it. I didn't say
it was true.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Oh people say many things, dear exactly.

Speaker 5 (02:25):
Oh you don't need to tell me. Oh, you don't
need to tell me. But anyway, Yeah, I found out.
And I took the Patrona's test twice, and first time
I told me it was a lioness. And I'll be honest,
I'm not a cat person, so I'll like, I'll take
it again and see if, like, are we sure?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I got.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Tortoise shell cat.

Speaker 6 (02:45):
Wow?

Speaker 5 (02:45):
Really, so I got even more I'm like, can I
have the lioness again?

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Also, I feel like saying you're not a cat person
whenever you were told you were a lion is a
little bit of a stretch. That's like being told you
were a whale and then being like, I don't like fish.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
That's such like, I don't think it's the same.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
I will say for it's maybe more of nature nurture
than nature thing. I grew up in a very anti
cat household. My folks did not like cats. I begged
and begged and begged for a dog and we had
it for like one summer and then it was just
so like untamable that we had to send it back.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
I was so heartbroken.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
That sounds traumatizing.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah no.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
But but then a few years later we got a
rabbit and it was fine until she died.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
But she we loved her.

Speaker 6 (03:31):
You know, it's it's always fun until we die.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, here's hoping the rabbit didn't die while you were
away at Hogwarts, because that happened in the books too.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
Oh yeah no, oh yeah lavender brown Binki in the
Fox and uh yes, yeah no.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
Luckily she died of natural causes. She lived six years.

Speaker 5 (03:51):
I think or so give her take, which I think
is a reasonably long life for a rabbit.

Speaker 6 (03:56):
I don't know. I mean technically binkie out of natural
causles too, but but but much more.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
And here we go, here we go, incurring the rest
of animals everywhere.

Speaker 5 (04:11):
Oh god, like uh, you'll notice that in the opening
of Jaws, when the girl dies, Roy Scheider does not
type cause of death natural causes.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
I'm just gonna say that, you know.

Speaker 5 (04:23):
Type shark attack, you know, which it's only I think
a politician would.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
But that's beside the point. But yeah, but so I.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
Guess my patrance is a Can we just say feline
umbrella then, because yes, sure.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Feline umbrella a new band name I call it.

Speaker 6 (04:39):
Yeah umbrella also sounds like something that Haggard would make.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's literally raining cats and dogs.

Speaker 5 (04:47):
Yeah, I think it's the cats make him sneeze though,
remember he said that in the first.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
He's sneezing in the rain. This is this is going
so far off the rails. Allow me bring it. Let
me go back to our.

Speaker 6 (05:02):
Guests, So I am sorry.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Books and movies. Which ones are your most favorite?

Speaker 4 (05:08):
I would say, like the I will be honest.

Speaker 5 (05:13):
First, I think I want to say the first book
is my but I'm going I've been going towards Prisoner
of Azkaban a bit lately. But however, the first movie
I would say is probably my favorite, not just of
the series, but of all time because I just have
such fun.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
It's one of those movies that I think it.

Speaker 5 (05:32):
Like it opened up a world for me when I
was like bear in mind, I was like six when
I first saw I saw the movie theater. But then
as I've gotten older, I've gotten matured, and it's kind
of give me like an appreciation for just the context
of when the movie came out and where I was
in my life and where I've gone. So it feels
like it serves as this nice little like focal point
cinematically and culturally for me and that sort of thing.

(05:55):
But even though I will conceee Prison of Asaban is
the best made.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
Movie of the Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
Which but that that's a this isn't a cinematic podcast,
I will say it definitely person as the difference between
liking a movie and saying a movie is well made
and that sort of thing, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I actually I like that statement because I absolutely, one
hundred percent agree. There is a difference between saying something
is well made and saying that it is good. In fact,
that's actually what I've said about the There's a Moon
behind Bianca. That's reminding me of this. I've just for
some reason thinking about Twilight lately. But that's what I

(06:35):
always say about the Twilight books. I say that they
are bad stories, that they are well written, like she
knows how to write, but the story she's telling is bad.
And so movies can be exactly the same. Movies can
be very well made, even if the movie itself is
objectively not that great. So I would agree.

Speaker 6 (06:56):
One thing that I think is great is this chapter
that we're going to talk about today, and it's Deathly
Hallow's chapter fourteen, The Thief. We originally talked about this
chapter on episode one hundred and sixty four. It was
called legillam inception, which is impressive. Sorry, did you say
that again, Legillimen? Oh no, dude, I came out so.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
Strong, and then I was gonna say that was so impressed.
You got that out in the first try without without We.

Speaker 6 (07:29):
Don't know how many times I practiced before we started.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Josh is very professional yeah, I'm just very chaotic.

Speaker 6 (07:38):
Uh. It was recorded. They were released in November twenty
fifteen with host Eric Allison Katt and guest Ali. So
if you would like to go back and listen to
the episode to see what they talked about, because I
don't remember it, I'll listen to it, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, let us know which episode was better and that
I mean ours, So there's that. This episode is sponsored
by Brian Stisher on Patreon.

Speaker 6 (08:08):
Thank you, Brian.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Our Patreon offers a lot of great perks, including ad
free episodes, monthly meetups with the hosts, and so much more.
These perks started just three dollars a month, so head
on over to patreon dot com slash alohimora to become
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this episode or the entire show with your friends and

(08:32):
your favorite Harry Potter communities. We appreciate the support of
every single one of our listeners. However you are able
to do so, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yay three times. Should do it?

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Chapter revisit.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
Chapter full Chain.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
The Thief, all right, so check it. Harry and the
Potters are evicted from the World's Worst Airbnb because of
a literal slip up. Once they're launched headfirst into the
longest and most unpleasant camping trip of all time, time
gets very difficult to keep track of, and that applies

(09:24):
to the people reading the story as well as the
people inside the story itself. As horrifying as the horrorcrux necklaces,
the trio can't help but be fascinated by it as
they try to find ways of destroying it. They settle
into a routine made up mostly of using the same
protective spells every time they move, searching unsuccessfully for more horrcruxes,
and Ron crying about the fact that they don't have

(09:45):
an omelet station. In spite of Hermione's insistence that Harry
be closed minded like her, Harry has a vision in
which he witnesses the murder of Grigorovitch. Wandmakers are not
having the best luck in this book, and the flashes
back by proxy to a robbery committed by a face
he can recall but cannot put a name to. Beautiful Yeah,

(10:07):
speaking of Twilight, why the guy the guy, sorry, the
guy who played young grendel Wald in the Deathly Hallows movies.
He was one of the Vultoi from the Twilight movies,
was he. Yeah, I don't remember his name. You would
think I would remember. I think he was another one

(10:28):
of those people who goes by three names. But he
was one of those guys that in the two thousands,
he was in everything. He was even in the Sweeney
Todd movie. He was in the one their their unsuccessful
attempt to launch the Mortal Instruments series into a movie.
Like he was. He was in like Jamie.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
Something or other, Jamie Campbell Bauer.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's it. Yeah, No, that's him.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
So listeners, before we started recording today, Bianca let slip
that she could not figure out why this chapter was
called the Thief. Yeah. We obviously, we'll get to it.
We'll talk about the vision at the end of this episode.
But it really made me start thinking, is that a
good chapter title for this? Like what other titles could

(11:15):
we go by that that that probably fit more into
what happens throughout rather than just this one thing that
happens at the end.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I really like how I titled this and the dogs
spleinched and Homeless.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
I think that that should be I think that.

Speaker 6 (11:30):
That should be that's not, that's not a bad one.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Or like or either or like if we want to
go with the literation hurt and homeless, like.

Speaker 6 (11:38):
Done splinched, splinched was mod like first thought of like
just easy, just splenched camping, that's not. That doesn't really
follow with what you would think, you know, so I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
See it's always it's It seems to me it's either
an object that forms like the focal point of the chap,
a place they're going that they don't normally go, or
some kind of event taking place in the chapter. But
this is I actually was thinking about this when we
were preparing for this episode. This is actually one of

(12:13):
the most in spite of the significance of Harry witnessing
the vision of young Grendel Walden not realizing at the
time who it is. It's there's really not a lot
going on in this chapter. It's mostly camping, and it's
mostly them settling into their own hopelessness and the weight

(12:36):
of just how hard this is going to be falling
on them because they had to leave the wedding in
a big old hurry, but they did go somewhere that
was slightly more familiar, not long after that they learned
a lot of significant information, and then there was a
couple of days where they didn't really see that many people,

(12:57):
but they were at least it felt like they were
still in the planning stages. They weren't out in the
real world trying to do this yet. But this is
where they not that I want to defend Ron constantly
complaining and making things worse, which he does, but it admittedly,

(13:17):
I think for each of them they have at least
a small moment of this is going to be harder
than I realized. But as to what we would call
the chapter, if we're not calling it The Thief, I
think the reason it actually does make kind of a
good chapter title is because this vision Harry's not supposed
to be having. This is a thing that's happened with

(13:40):
him before he's seen inside Voldemort's mind. Harmione says, you're
not supposed to be doing that, or Snape gets mad
at him because he's not supposed to be doing that.
But now he's out in the real world with no Snape,
no Dumbledore, Hermione can't tell him what to do because
he's of age now. So he sees this vision and
he just thinks, well, I can try to shut it out,

(14:00):
or I can just pull up my big boy pants
and say, you know what, if I want to see
inside of Baltimore's head, whatever, I'll do what I want.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Also, I can't tell him what to do because he's
of age now, yes, sending me.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, like Hermione, you technically couldn't tell him what to
do before he was.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
But I see what you did there. It's like, oh,
Hermione is acting like Harry's parent. I see what you
did there.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah. And I have to say this out loud too
to make a mental note for myself so I don't
forget it. But when you just say the word splinched
by itself. I recently helped put together the twenty twenty
five Wizard Rock Sampler, and there was one song on
there that was much more metal than the other Wizard
Rock songs, Like the vocals are very oo and I
actually really enjoy that kind of stuff more than I

(14:46):
used to. Splinched to me, sounds like that would be
that kind of song. I don't know if I'll ever
actually do it, but if I ever make a Wizard
Rock song that's more in terms of the vocals, that's
what I'm gonna call it.

Speaker 6 (14:58):
Yeah, I mean I think that's I think that would
be an excellent song and.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Good luck, we'll be on the lookout for that.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yes, it just it. It really is one of those things.
And that's why it's a heck of a way for
the chapter to start, because you really do think of
it as I think that's even what Harry says is
he thinks of splinching as something comical like, oh dear,
I'm hopping on one leg because the other ones over
there are just flailing around, but no splinching is actually
it sounds horrifying because if they hadn't acted quickly, Ron

(15:26):
could have bled to death.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
Right, Oh yeah, absolutely, And that's yeah, we'll get like
we can talk about when h well with that. In particular,
we know that Susan Bones has been splinched before, and
so I was really confused as to why Harry would
say he'd always thought of it as being something comical, like, yes,
Ron left an eyebrow behind one time, like that can

(15:51):
be funny. Susan Bones lost a leg.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
It reattached it was understand I understand. Thanks, thanks, just
still don't welcome.

Speaker 6 (16:04):
She still stow a classmate standing there with one with
the leg over there one here? Also, how did she
not bleed out like a leg is gone?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I'm realizing that this is probably part of the reason
why we are misled into thinking that splinching is something
that's you know, one of those bibbling, whimbling, whimsical, just wizardy,
Oh how funny. Magic is sometimes kind of things rather
than something horrifying. Because she's just her leg is just detached.

(16:32):
It doesn't say anything about anything being exposed or blood anywhere,
just she's here and her leg is over there, like
the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.

Speaker 6 (16:42):
Yeah, it does say like that, that that part where
she where it happens. It says, it says Susan bones
with wobbling in her hoop, with her left legs still
standing five feet away where she had started.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, but it does say that sounds funny.

Speaker 6 (16:58):
But it says there was a horrible streak of pain
and everybody looked around, and then says the head of
the house converged on her. There's a great bang and
puff of purple smoke which clear to reveal Susan's sobbing.
Were you noted with her leg but looked but looking horrified.
But it's classic Ron and Harry anyway of just like
it didn't happen to gryffindor so we don't actually care.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Well in this case it did.

Speaker 5 (17:22):
Yeah, right, maybe it's always funy what happens to somebody
else for one thing, and uh, secondly, like it's a.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Very I think it's.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
Like a tim Burton esque sense of humor to me,
almost where you think of like Corpse Bride or Nightmare
before Christmas or even like Beetlejuice where it's like they're
in the waiting room and there's there there's that like
magicians assistant who's been cut in half and like half
her top half is on one end of the couch
and her legs are on the other, or uh, you know,
or like when they're trying to you know, when they're
trying to haunt the house and they like she just

(17:50):
like rich her face off or this yeah, or just
takes his head like that's which can be. It's not
exactly like hey yeash or something like I got it.
It's not exactly prop comedy, but you know it's comedy. Nonetheless,
I think it's all about the way it's frank because
also I think it which also these I think if
it's all about how you frame it, approach it, because

(18:12):
obviously these books are not afraid to be graphic. I mean,
like the way, like immelily my brainway comes to graphic things.
I think of when Harry has the vision of mister
Weasley getting attacked by the snake and the description there
and then he vomits because it's when he wakes up
and that sort of thing. So I think maybe it
probably would have I think at least in that apparitions,
which is kind of meant to be almost like that

(18:32):
like coming of age, like driving tests sort of sort
of thing. It's meant to be like you know, oh,
like which I've got, I mean, which I think about it.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
Driving tests are.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
Not very I I'm still recovering from my own driving
lessons and that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
All of my instructors hated me.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I think the other thing that we're not considering is
as humans, we laugh at things that are funny. Yeah,
so I think less also just put that out there
as well. I mean, there are think about how many
social media videos are out there every single day of
some money falling off of a boat or you know
whatever it is like at the end of the day.
We also we laugh at things that aren't funny, So
there's that.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah, we give them and sometimes sometimes they.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Laugh and then we realize that we really shouldn't be
laughing and we're like, oh, it's just Yeah. There's there's
levels of humor light to dark, with a lot of
shades in between. But what I really like is that
Hermione has such quick thinking, because I literally am like,
I'm I'm Harry, right, I'm Harry, I'm discombobulated, I'm opening

(19:32):
my eyes, I'm like, where am I And then by
the time Harry has his eyes open, Hermione is already
on it, saving her Man.

Speaker 6 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean Hermione's Hermony's quick thinking throughout the end
of the last after in this one, to be able
to grab everybody, get side along apparition, going to get
to Grumald's place and then realize what's happening there, use
a revulsion charm, and then use side along apparition again
to get to the forrest here to get away from everything.

(20:02):
Is so impressive. Hermione is who she is, and you know,
there's so much more good that outweighs the bad like
being the wing pieces of Hermioney that like none of
the other two could have done what she did to
get them safe here and then. But it's but it's
all throughout too, Bionc. It's not even just with Ron.

(20:25):
It's it's the the apparition like I like I mentioned,
the helping Ron like you mentioned, and then the immediacy
of getting the tent up, getting the defending charms around
where they're staying at. It's just constant. My mind's moving
to protect and she doesn't have to think about it.
It's just it's almost like she has this instinct about

(20:48):
her to be able to go. But but we know,
we know that that's probably just from the intense intelligence
that she has.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
I was gonna say, Josh, it's not just those things
that you've named, it's Hermioney in every book in this series,
like it's Hermione is just the goats and Harry and
Ron would be lost without her. And I feel like
people who people in general who are known to be
kind of like a know it all. They are typically annoying,
and they are also typically right a lot.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Of the times.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
But then when they say that then of course they
come across as more annoying.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
So yeah, we we love we love.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Hermione, We're we're very very grateful she is there, although
I have some thoughts.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
On those mushrooms, but we'll get there.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yeah. But and then like there's also the piece of like, yes,
she's a know it all, yes, all all these all
these things, but like she's also an intense planner. She
had a tent ready to go whow they were going
to the ministry. Why would she need a tent like
all of these?

Speaker 1 (21:46):
To be honest with you, that was always when when
she says she had that bad pack.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
In my mind, I that was.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Not shocking to me, right, And I don't know, Like
to me, I was like, what other situation should you
be t tg tg trying to go for anyone who
doesn't know like the minute they arrived there and the
fact that she could put that charm on the bag.
So I agreed that it was great, But I'll be honest,
like to me, like that wasn't surprising at all.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
I'm like, it's do or die.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Like we absolutely the fact that Harry and Ron did
not have anything prepared was like very disappointing.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
To me, it felt in character that they had nothing prepared?
What what was a little in hindsight, what I probably
might have done if I was hermione. She points out
to them that she's had the essentials packed for weeks.
She might have at some point encouraged them to do
the same. She doesn't, isn't too She had the essentials, right,

(22:44):
but she can't pack everything they could.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
She did what they didn't. She packed, dude, all right,
Okay to shame to Shae. Okay, damn, she didn't pack
any can the rice and beans.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Okay, the problem? Yeah, problem, you're telling me Missus Weasley
doesn't have any cans of preserves or anything. She seems
like the type that would be good at putting up preserves.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
And I'm just guessing because hermione has mogal parents, I'm
guessing they just never had any survival shows playing on
the telly while she was growing up, or in her
summer holidays or something like that.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Well it was the nineties. Those things are much more
abundant now than they would have been back then.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
Or hell, even like she loves to, like you know,
like she comes to and I can relate to, right,
I also think there's maybe. I mean this is because
I think, as far as I know, like Hermione and
Emma Wats are almost pretty much the same person, very real,
and I'm pretty sure I heard Emma Watson say she
has ADHD and I also have ADHD. And I can
tell you we love to like prepare ahead of time

(23:52):
as much as we can. I mean, I've still I've
forgotten my contact lenses, I forgot my glasses, I forgotten charger.
There's always one thing we forget. We over prepare, but
then we and but that's another thing where we are
calm under pressure, but when there's nothing going on, then
we feel pressure. So I think that makes sense that
Hermione would be so like the moment's thing goes wrong,
it's like jump in action, know what to do and

(24:14):
that sort of thing, and then just be like I mean,
in verse time where we told this, I was talking
about going to see you know, a movie super early
before and I was annoyed that my parents wanted to
leave so early. But then we had a trip planned,
my folks and I and this was like earlier this year.
I had all the essentials, fact and I was prady
to go like two or three hours before we had

(24:36):
to leave.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
But then I was just like, why is no one ready?

Speaker 5 (24:40):
And that was just kind of my bit of like
Hermione there as well and correct because she without them,
Without Hermione, they would have been dead, I think in
the first book easily.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, And like Hermione isn't obviously she's not like their wife,
but I feel like she gives those vibes, like she
gives the like the caretaker of like the house I
mean the household being the trio, like.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
She gives that kind of but she gives that kind
of energy.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I feel like it's a very like when I think
about it from like a marriage perspective, like you were
talking about the movies, like like I always put like
a Snuggie blanket in my purse, and like every time,
like my husband is like, oh, did you bring a blanket?

Speaker 2 (25:19):
And I'm like, did you bring a blanket? No, you
did it. I know you didn't bring it, and you
know that I brought it because I feel.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Like, to a certain extent, like Jeff said, it's also
like expected, like you know from these characters, like we'd
we expect Hermione to be prepared for these but yeah,
I am. I was gonna try to defend her and
be like, maybe she didn't think that they would be
in a scenario where they we're gonna where they weren't
going to have food. But I mean, not even packing
like a bag of chips is crazy. I just feel
like snacks.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Snacks.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
To me, I'm like, that's in like the top three
we're packing anywhere.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm like snacks. So that was that was a little
bit disappointing.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
But I can't believe I'm about to say this.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Oh God, oh God.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Buckle up, kids. When Vernon Dursley dragged his wife and
son and nephew to a hut on the rock in
the middle of the sea, he at least got some
bags of chips and some bananas. Hermione ain't brought nothing.

Speaker 6 (26:16):
That was that was for Vernon.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
And that's not even comparable. Because Vernon knew that he
was about to leave with them. They had to flee
from a wedding. That is not apples to apples.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
No, it's bananas to bananas.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
No, it's bananas to apples.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Because that's what hermione brought.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
She it's brought.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
It's bananas in a bag of chips to attend to
didn'ty there you go Okay.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Hey, you got solid it.

Speaker 6 (26:43):
Anyway, I really like that Harry, like as soon as
he woke up on the on like the forest floor
or not woke up, I gets figured out that he
was on the forest floor. He he starts saying about
the Forbidden Forest, and the book says that his heart
leapt with the thought of like being able to sneak
through the trees and maybe gets Hee Haggard that kind

(27:04):
of stuff. It really reminded me of Looping reminiscent about
like going through the forest with with the marauders, and
it was, I don't know it, especially after the fight
that we had with Loop and all that kind of stuff.
It's nice seeing like that similarity between like places that
feel like home to both Harry and and Looping there.

(27:25):
I don't know, it just seemed it just seemed really
nice that even though Harry the Hogwarts is not what
the same place that Harry left, he was still excited
to be in a familiar place. And then that's whenever
he realizes that, oh, my best friend's dying. Uh, he's
leading out, so he goes up gets with Hermione Hermione

(27:47):
he's like with Ron, like up up at Ron's head,
like trying, and she says, go get didn't he? And
then you also have like this kind of callback to
are you are you a witch or not? From the
first book where you where they're they're with the devil
Snare When Harry's like looking for the Didney all this
kind of stuff, he can't find it, and then he realizes,

(28:08):
all I could use magic to do this, and he says,
Achio Didney. I don't know. I just really thought those
were really nice count almost callbacks, but at least similarities.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Ye know, two things you're saying that, Josh, Like I
always I thought it's probably the New England in me,
which you know, New England is we have nothing, but
there's literally like some woods outside.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
My window right now, which and which even though.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
This is dire circumstances for our characters and this is
a very sea, I've always found something oddly cozy and comforting,
and like, even while my first reading and seeing the movie,
I always found them even though this is like probably
the worst situation they could be in, I just found
it so like I enjoyed the ambience of it, and
that sort of thing I think maybe you saying that

(28:52):
as well, like about how it feels home for Harry
and he's in the Old England and I'm in the
New England, but they're both England's have the's in the
forest and and that sort of thing, and so I
just liked that, uh, and also like, and we do
get an explicit call back to the are you a
witch or not? And the end of this book when
her when Ron says, oh, I can see them not

(29:14):
to stop the willow, but where's Crook We need Crookshanks
and Hermione says, are you a wizard or not? And
he's like, oh, yeah, and then he floats the twig
to push the knot on the trunks.

Speaker 6 (29:25):
So also, where is kirk Shanks?

Speaker 3 (29:28):
I always assumed Krookshanks went with Hermione's parents.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
That was gonna be my k belongs in the Wizarding World.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
I feel like kirk Shanks is at the yeah, but
kirk Schanks is not. Krook Shanks is a cat, but
krook Shanks is not. Like I feel like kirk Shanks
does not give the same amount of sass and push
back to Hermione that Hedwig gives to Harry, which is
kind of funny if you think about it, because that
does sound like a very cat thing to do. But

(30:00):
I think Krookshanks would probably begrudgingly understand if Hermione explained
it to him because of how intelligent he is that
he can't go where she's going. It's just it's too
conspicuous and she can't guarantee that there would be. It's
bad enough that they can't guarantee an adequate supply of

(30:20):
food for three people, let alone a cat. And yeah,
I do put those things on the same level, because
I'm one of those people who considers animals to be
as good as family, especially if you take them in
and you care for them. And you can tell that
Hermione feels the same way about crook Shanks. What I'm
a little surprised about is that it's not mentioned because

(30:42):
Crookshanks is very, very important to Hermione, and he even
forms an essential part of certain plot points, especially in
the third book.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, yeah, I think this is a plot hole because
I think that's not mentioning Krookshanks at all.

Speaker 6 (30:56):
Is in this.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Way, I don't have any half blood Crookshank's moments coming
to mind. I mean, I feel like most I feel
like Crookshank's shining moment was mostly in Prisoner of Azkaban,
but obviously we do still we do still see him
throughout the books. But yeah, I feel like, honestly, it's
just it's just a plot hole.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, Kirk Shanks.

Speaker 5 (31:17):
Yeah, it would have been so much worse for them
that if they had brought Krookshanks along though, because that's
literally one more mouth to feed. And I'm sure like
the like, you know, Kirk Shanks, as far as I know,
Kirk Shanks doesn't eat people food.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
Or at least a lot of it.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
Do we ever get a reference to what krook Shanks
is Well, I mean we know Krookshank's.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
A spider, yeah exactly, I know.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
Yeah, well has been suspected of eating rats, but you know, proven.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Cats are hunters. You know, Krookshanks could have been the
one actually going out and finding things for them to eat,
and yes, it would have probably been disgusting and horrifying,
but when they hit that point where they are near starvation,
they're definitely now nourished that there would be days where

(32:05):
they would probably be like, you know what, that rat
looks a little bit tastier than he did yesterday. Am
I crazy? Yes?

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Put that rat on a stick, roll that thing over
a fire. That sounded it was so comfortable.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Oh, this is on me.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm not think over a fire.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
And you're like, like, get in Wild Wild West? Where
will Kevin Klydeer is sitting at the campfire. He's just
got a giant lizard on a stick. He takes a
bite out of it. Kevin Klein's look at our fight.
He just holds it over like do you want something? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (32:35):
No, Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
Before you finished your sentence, I thought you were going
to say they like, if things got really bad, they
should they would eat crookshanks.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
And that's why I went, no crooked shanks.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
No, oh no, no, I can't a joke about that.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
If it gets that bad. If it gets that bad,
go face Voldemort. Just don't even go face the death
of eaters. If you do not eat your pet.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
No, just if it gets that bad at that point,
just risk, just risk your life in other ways.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
And they would marry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. This
is not the Donner Party.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
Yeah, like I mean, no, the Donner party would be
It's like, okay, so okay, whose arm is the tasty?

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Do we think?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
I was gonna say, all right, that's a stretch, Now
we ain't.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
We're not.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's not cannibal eating a cat is not cannibals.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Harry's because he's got them quidditch muscles.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
That one.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, I'm not, you know, let's go ahead, next question,
next question. Let's bring it back because something that I
was wondering since book two. Right, So we're introduced to
polyjuice potion and book two and then we know that
Hermione says it should last for an hour.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
We don't ever get any any kind of data about why.
And then you know, we get we.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
See poly juice potion again in book four with fake
Moody and he's just sipping it all the time. Nobody
has any idea what the clock situation looks like on that.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Then you have the Seven Potters.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
I don't know what the timeline is from when they
got from when they left the Dursleys to whenever they
got to.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I think they went to the borough, right, was it
the borough? I can't remember?

Speaker 6 (34:18):
Yeah, well they went to talk.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, yeah, my point, here's my question My question is
do we ever have any confirmation about how much polyjuice
potion is equivalent to a certain amount of time, because
I personally feel like this is another plot hole because
we see it, we see polyjuice potion over and over again,

(34:41):
but it just it just doesn't really it doesn't really
add up. But I don't know how long they were
in the ministry either, but I know that whenever Ron
first got there, Harry said that he was kind of
like transforming from kindamal back to himself, and I was
just thinking to myself, how long is this post?

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Like isn't just a guess? It just a toss up every.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Time, Like every time you're drinking, you're just like, well,
hopefully I'll get at least this much time.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
I think Jeff has an answer.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
I have an answer informed by recent experiences that I'm
going to phrase.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I'm kidding ahead, are you, Jeff?

Speaker 4 (35:18):
What what did you do to Jeff?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Aren't we all Jeff? Just a little thankfully?

Speaker 6 (35:24):
Not?

Speaker 3 (35:25):
No, No, I'm going to phrase this as delicately, yes
I can. I went to a convention recently in Tennessee,
and in Tennessee there's things you can do there. So
there were things that were for sale there. Let's call
it gilly weed. And I was having a friendly chat
with the proprietors of the gilly Weed stand at this convention,

(35:48):
and I was asking them that very question, and it
actually kind of reminded me of things like this about
how long does it? Those are these are common questions.
How long does it take to kick in? How long
does it last? You know? These these are these are
common questions, And it depends on a myriad of factors.
This is where I think we have to consider where

(36:11):
what we understand about science in real life, like what
we might call muggle science, where this intersects with magical theory,
is the size, the weight, the metabolism, any underlying conditions
that might affect the body's ability to break down and
process certain things. Because a potion is, you know, not

(36:35):
unlike a lot of these other things. You ingest it,
it has a certain effect on you, and then eventually
the effect most likely will wear off. So I think
it depends on a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, okay, so I think what you're saying. I think
it makes sense, but it doesn't add up based on
the book.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
It Well, I mean, we could see.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
In the book everybody turned the same to every It
was always the same amount of week outside of everybody.
They drank the potion and then they immediately turned and
then they turned back at the same time. So what
you're saying makes sense as far as real life, But in.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
The book, that's where the magical element comes in. And
I don't know that this is something that I would
probably have to look at everything they ever ate or
drank that affected them and how Because when they take
the polyjuice potion in their first year, Ron and Harry
are approximately the same size, the same age, the same

(37:30):
weight at similar points in their development. Ron might be
slightly further along because he's a little bit taller and
a little bit bigger. But you know, we won't get
hung up on that. But the potion was made very
carefully and they drank certain amounts of it, so it
stands to reason that they would experience the effects of
the potion for about the same amount of time. But

(37:53):
if you were I'm curious, what would happen if you
gave the same potion to somebody else, like in Hermione's case.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yea, they gave the potion to a bunch of people
in the chapter with the seven Thoughts.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, like you got old, young male, female, tall, short, like.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah, but we don't see them all turning back. When
we see them, they have already turned back.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
My point exactly, So everyone's already turned back.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I mean the answer is there is no answer.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
I know that, Okay, Like, let me just let me
just put that out there isn't We don't know is
the answer.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
But in the book, in the books, every.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Time polyjuice potion is used, it makes it seem like
it's like this set time, but we don't ever really
find out what that set time is.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Is really all I'm saying, Yeah, I mean, it's magic.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I don't think the book wants to answer those kinds
of questions because I don't think that the person who
wrote the book really thinks it matters that much. She's
not thinking about these things nearly as deeply as we are,
and I think that's as it should be. She shouldn't
really have to She should leave some of this stuff
open so that we have things to speculate on. If
she closed every loophole, and if she explained every single

(39:03):
thing and every leaf under every tree and every forest
the way the author of the Lord of the Rings did,
then we wouldn't have anything to we wouldn't have nearly
as much to discuss.

Speaker 5 (39:15):
This is why, yeah, and this is why I'll like,
just you're saying that I actually watched Lord of the
Rings for the first time like a year or two ago,
believe it or not, the and I only vaguely knew
what our characters, the characters had to do to succeed,
but like I got like things like names of places,

(39:35):
and I'm like, I don't and people talk about I'm
like why and that sort of thing. But also two things.
Magic is just science that hasn't been explained yet for
one thing. But also I think this author clearly shows
a lack of understanding of how science works, both in
and out of the text. So basically think we're answered
addressing these questions so that we can fill in those gaps.

(39:59):
And so I don't know, that just made me think
about all of those things. But like things we just
have to accept. Also, I'm a I'm a treky. I
love star Trek. In the amount of times where it
just says, oh, well, we can't do that, that's scientifically possible,
and then in another episode that takes place before or
after a different time, it's like, oh, yeah, we.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Can do that, no problem. It's like I said, it
was impossible, and.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
It's called science fiction. Lean into the not the science.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
I know, but they try so hard to be sited
where they're like they reference real things and whatnot.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
But then it's like, no, that's not how it were,
like you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I think this is why we get so pent up
about this is because I mean, you're you're right. Anytime
there's anytime there's any kind of fiction, fantasy, sci fi, whatever,
we we can't understand it. And then and there are
no rules. That's really what it comes down to, like
you can do whatever you want because it's a made
up world.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
I used to be a really big vampire Vampire.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Diary Diaries is that, yeah, I was confused with the
with the book, Yeah, Vampire Academy. I used to be
a big Vampire Diaries fan, I remember, But by the
time I got to season four, I was like, I'm
not gonna be sad when anybody dies anymore because they
all just come back to life. It's like, oh, they're gone.
Oh but there's a witch and she can bring them back.
And it's like, but what are you gonna do? Like,

(41:18):
like Jeff said, at the end of the day, it
is it is science fiction, and speaking of science fiction,
this is not science fiction. Or that was a terrible segue.
I have on a completely different topic. Actually, I have
a question about Yaxley. So we know that Hermione in
the moment she made this decision of like, you know what,

(41:40):
he's probably a criminal place, let me not go back here.
And then they were saying that he might have already
brought death eaters back there, And do we think that's true?
Like do we think so, because obviously we don't really
know because Yaxley's is gone at this point, But what
do we.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Actually think happened to Yaxley.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Let's just say, like ten minute window, what happens from
the time that he gets into the a flu powder,
the apparition, whatever it is, and then what.

Speaker 6 (42:09):
I mean, so we know that Hermione uses a revulsion
jinx on Yaxley whenever they're on the doorstep of grim
Old Place, so he gets thrown out of the apparition.
So he's at number twelve Grimwold Place at least, and
now he can now he can see it. It's not
just a matter of if you remember, the numbers went
like eleven thirteen or whatever and skipped twelve. And we

(42:32):
know Death Theaters were stationed outside at all times, so
like they knew something was going on. Yaxley can see
the thing gets broken. And then really, if you're a
if you're a secret keeper of a Fidelia's charm and
you tell someone else and they also become a secret keeper.
So now Yaxley is the secret keeper of the Fidelia's

(42:52):
charm at Granmwold Place, So now he can tell everybody.
So ten minute window, I think that the boys waking
up like figure out what's going on. But now he can.
He can see number twelve grim Old Place, and he
at least goes inside or he calls her backup. I
think that there's back up there.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
So you think that in that ten minutes he did
call other death theaters there?

Speaker 3 (43:14):
I think he may.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Now how did he even call the death theaters there?

Speaker 6 (43:18):
They're standing outside there, they've been watching the place twenty
four to seven.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Oh okay, so okay, okay, so you're not talking about okay, Yeah,
so he didn't he didn't call them.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
He like he like he was just like, hey, like
that's what you mean?

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Dark Mark touched touched the mark.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
That's what you don't do that, see that, you don't
just do that want to because that's not That's not
how they summon each other. That's Voldemort's way of summoning them.
That doesn't work other ways. It's not like a talkie okay.

Speaker 5 (43:52):
Mostly like I think Hermione definitely opened Pandora's box to speak.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
I think it was just a full on raid.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
That's what I always envisioned personally, was just like okay, like, yeah,
call the other death eaters, send in the reserves, tear
the place apart, because you know, I just I will say,
like why would you actually just go, oh well, what's that?
Oh okay, well, because like they're intruders who went into
the ministry, who went to this place. And clearly if
the intruder, it's like, you know, you're following them to

(44:18):
this place. You want to know why they would they
would leave the ministry and go there.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
You know, see to Josh's point about they were standing outside,
I think I thought about this the wrong way. I
was thinking of it in terms of would he actually
have gotten more death Eaters and brought them inside the
boundaries of the protective magic? But I think that possibly
when they brought him inside the barrier, that would have
deluded the power of the fi dailiest terms, So would

(44:45):
that have broken it? Like can the death eaters standing
outside the house watching it? Can they see it? Now?

Speaker 6 (44:53):
I actually don't know that, And we really don't have
any information on how the that really happens, because people
can see the Potter's house and it was under a
Fidelia's charm. But by the time that Harry goes well,
I guess people had left messages and things too, So
the charm had been broken because yeah, maybe because people died,

(45:16):
or maybe Dumbledore took the Fidali's arm off whenever James
and Lily died. We don't, we don't know. I don't.
I really don't have anything that tells me that the
charm was broken.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Well, if you remember in Prisoner of Azkaband, Serious recounts
that when he suspected Wormtail had blown the whistle on
the Potters, he saw the house destroyed.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
You know.

Speaker 5 (45:44):
Yeah, And so I think, I mean, I think it
stands to reason more or less that if the people
who are under the subject of the secret being kept
are dead or the place is destroyed, that that would
just kind of automatically like lift the charm or something
like that, because it's like, what's the point, So like
there's nothing that really binds it or holds it there.

(46:05):
Because you know, Harry was he was a baby, I
probably doesn't apply to babies. Voldemort was broken, Lili and
James are dead, so I think it just kind of
you know, it's like, you know, it decloaked itself, I
guess you could say, or something like that.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Me with the Star Trek, Yeah, no, it makes sense.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
I'm going to resist the temptation to go down the
rabbit hole of the Fidelias charm on both of these
places and just focus on the part about Yaxley. What
I really think happened is he becomes aware of where
they are and what it means, and then somehow like
he's a lieutenant under Voldemort's network of death Eaters, so

(46:47):
he's got some people who probably are taking orders from him,
or at least they're taking instructions from him, because Voldemort
gives the orders. He probably sent however he did it.
He sent word to some people. He said this is
the place, come to this place and check it out.

(47:08):
Because once he realized where he was. He probably remembered,
oh wait, shoot, I was supposed to be in charge
of this thing at the ministry and now it's erupted
into chaos and a whole bunch of mud bloods just
got away. I might want to go check and see
how that's going, because my boss is definitely going to

(47:29):
want to hear about this. So for him personally, he's
got bigger fish to fry. But I'd say he probably
passed the buck to somebody else to go check out
the house.

Speaker 5 (47:38):
Yeah, I agree, that makes sense where it's like, hey,
check this out, I got I got a big fire
to put out at my place of work, and you know,
the dark Lord's going to be very pissed at me.

Speaker 6 (47:50):
If I think that. I think that if anyone is
going to know, or anyone that is still alive is
going to understand how this thing worked, it's her mind.
And she specifically says I've given him the secret. I
think that she would have said that the that the
charm is broken if it broke. I think that she

(48:10):
is correct and saying that she gave the secret, and
now Jaxley can give the secret. Fadili's charms get diluted
over time, the more secret keepers that you have, So
I think that Jaxley can now as a secret keeper
give it however long. But I mean as far as
going forward, Bianca, I think that I think that Yaxley
has at least had the place rated to get like searched.

(48:35):
I don't think that he would do it by himself,
because they also know that at one point in time
was the headquarters for the Order of the Phoenix. Maybe
they don't know that, but they probably suspect that at least.
But so then you have that you have that theaters
waiting outside at all times. I personally think that they're
going to keep that watch up on number twelve in
case the in case the kids make a mistake and

(48:57):
go back.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
And probably doubling it.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
I mean they probably now that they have confirmed that
the trio was there, they probably have they probably have
even more death eaters there, or it's at least a
lot more around the clock. And Josh, I'm glad that
you brought up the air quoting the innocent in this
in this thing, because I just have I have so
many thoughts and questions about this whole creature situation. I'm sorry,

(49:23):
I am not buying and I know I don't care.
I know it's plot. I don't care. I am not
buying that. Y'all couldn't summon creature? Do you have any
to have many problems that would have solved food? Let's
just start there. You got your own cook, You got
someone who can do magic that I got nothing to
do with your kind of magic.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
They can apperate. I'm like, it was just too convenient.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Oh well, we're not gonna summon creature because because what
a death eater might be holding his pinky and he
might be like, no, I'm not. I would have risked it, risk,
risk it risk.

Speaker 6 (49:56):
You know what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Risk.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I would have risked it.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
You would have taken the risks.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Thank you. I would have I wouldn't have. I lost
my train of thought.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Now, no one, okay, no, wait, show of hands, who
would have taken the risk other than me?

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Okay, hubble puffs over here taking.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
So I I.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Know I love it because regular listeners will know that.
Usually when Bianca is this fired up about something and
I'm in the discussion, usually we are not agreeing. But
on this I say, Bianca is absolutely right, and I
have nothing more to add to it because she put
it perfectly.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
Well, I'm just gonna say I'm a raven cloud, which
means I'm smart.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
So there, okay, and we're going to say that that's
not how the houses work.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
But all right, it is in the books.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Okay to share.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Josh, the gryffindor, the bravest of all of us, is
not even going to risk it.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
You're not going to find a death eater for something.

Speaker 6 (50:57):
All right, I'll figure it out.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Well, also know the boy will be killing some squirrels,
like I'm smart enough.

Speaker 6 (51:04):
No, I've got a one that can kill a squirrel. Like,
what are we doing?

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I just yeah, I know. We're very much jumping all
over the place.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Now I have to before we move on, I have
to ask something. Now, Josh, have you killed a squirrel?
Have you eaten the squirrel that you killed? Josh?

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Well, you thought he was killing them for a sport.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Hang on, one last question? Was it tasty?

Speaker 6 (51:30):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (51:31):
For the questions, thank you, Okay, But I will say,
like maybe somebody that kind of ties this conversation together.
Something I do at least appreciate it from this from
a writing perspective, is that you know this that for one.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Thing Hogwarts, which was the We're told is the safest place.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
Obviously that can be disputed, but some you know, yeah,
like I said, we're told, we're like I said, we
are told, but they're you know, but let's just say
yeah exactly, I mean, but anyway, but still it's home
for Harriet's comfort. But my point is is that the

(52:07):
fact that it's now the most dangerous place for them,
even more than it was before, and the fact that
what became because this could have easily have been the
book where you know, they just operate out of Grimald
Place instead of Hogwarts.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
So I like that, you know, this could have that
It keeps our characters.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
You know, they're on the move from Private Drive to
the Borrow to Grimald Place and then I'll across Britain
and then finally Hogwarts, because I think it's important, especially
in the in the finale, especially that, and if you
want to keep the writing fresh and interesting, do you
see your characters in places you had in not just
set things, but in conditions that you haven't seen them before,
Because then it really it not only doesn't keep it
interesting for the reader, but it tests the characters to

(52:46):
see how they adapt to these new situations because we've
never seen them go camping except in the Quadge World Cup,
which was a highly organized and like official event and whatnot.
And so I just think that that's a very you know,
nice way to And then the fact that you know,
Hermione then does the enchantments. The fact that we've got
in the first book, making something float was considered a win,

(53:07):
and now here's Hermione basically doing like you know, high
level security nine factor my magic authentication with cloaking technology.
I just think that's just a nice little like I
think it's just it's a nice little mark of uh
of things.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Like my my heart broke whenever I found out they
could not go back to Grimaud place. I know it
was never known as like the sexiest place to live,
but at the end of the day, like that was
a home that was a home for them.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Well, that depends on what you're into.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
I don't even think it does. I mean that's we're
not gonna go there. We're not gonna go there. Yeah,
we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna pull that right back out.
I'm just gonna say that I do agree with you
justin like from from a reader perspective, like you are like, wait,
so what's going to happen next? And you know, seeing
them kind of go from place to place it one
hundred percent it keeps that, it keeps that adventure going.

(54:04):
And do we ever do we ever actually get do
we ever find out? Josh is like shaking and said, so,
I might even have the question out. He just knows
the answer, are you No, we don't bank We don't
ever do we ever find out if Creature was ever confronted.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
By death eaters?

Speaker 6 (54:21):
We do not.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
It was never like no, we don't find out, like
we don't find out.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Either ways that we're saying, don't. We don't hear anything
about him or see him from from the moment he
says that he's gonna make the mistake and kidney pie,
and Ron is very very emotionally affected by the thought
of that pie that he's never gonna get to eat
after they they mentioned, oh they think about him making

(54:45):
them a pie that they're never gonna get to eat,
which that makes me very sad. But we don't see
him or hear about him again until he is leading
a battalion of house elves into which is I feel
I'll be honest, that's my favorite part of the Battle
of Hogwarts. This Creature leading the charge of all these
house elves and they're hacking and stabbing and cutting its

(55:09):
ships because it's the highest point they can reach.

Speaker 6 (55:13):
Yeah, I really, I really like Creature's story, you know,
from from where we first meet him to where he
ends up at the end of Deathly Hallows Bianca. We
don't know if he's ever confronted by Death Theater or
anything like that, but because he does end up at
Hogwarts at the end, my assumption has always been that

(55:35):
he disapparated and went to Hogwarts like he did in
Halfwood Prance.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
So you're saying, okay, but a break break it down
for me, like he did this win like as soon
as he realized like a Death Theater with like.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
Okay, today he did it today he went back to Hogwarts. No.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
But because I am so invested in like did Creature
hear a noise and did he be like you know what,
let me get out of here? Because I feel like,
based on what we hear about Creature, Yes, he did
end up becoming a lot more likable, but he was
never really known as like someone with a lot of
wit and and and I know that we don't have
an answer for this either, but I would just really

(56:15):
like to believe that, you know, you have this house,
you have this house else to master relationship and and
I get it right, the master can summon them. Maybe
maybe it's like, oh, well, why would the house will
be able to do that? They're not the They're not
the master. But I just kind of feel like there
should be some kind of connection where you can always
find your person, like I just did not.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
I don't like this whole concept of like your.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Master can be lost somewhere and for whatever reason unable
to summon you and you just can't find them, Like.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
This whole one way thing just I don't know it,
don't It don't sit right with me.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
That's cool.

Speaker 6 (56:51):
Yeah, so you're you're saying that creature, when Creature knew
there's something wrong, he should have been able to operate
to wherever Harry was.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Yeah, Like there should be I.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Don't know if it will be like a technology or
if it would be like mentally, but I just feel like,
I don't know, like share your location.

Speaker 5 (57:08):
Come on, I have like the magic of cooland to
find my phone in like yeah, like it's like when
you find.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
My wand oh my gosh, it's not Uber Eats, it's
Uber Elves. Like he's walking around the woods with his
phone and it says, okay, it says that Harry is
like five hundred feet away, but I'm spinning around with
my phone. I don't see him. So maybe if he
could like wave or something or like a creature like this.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
Is something I have to bring up last night, like
because magic and technology can go around. This is it's
so funny that we are recording this today because I
kid you not. Just last night I came home. I
work nights evenings, and I came home and at my
front door was a bag from Bertucci's, the restaurant, And
I was like, Okay, what's this doing here? Did one

(58:03):
of my folks order takeout and I didn't? And I
brought it in and my mom was like, what is this?
And uh, it turns out the uber it was door dashed,
but they gave it to them. So we just had
Bertucci's in our house with like that was not someone else's.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
That was someone else's.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
And yeah, they got it wrong, so you know, and
I think maybe so who's to say that, you know,
because that made me think of that ADHD. But anyway,
and uh also, but there was precedent for a creature
basically noping his way out of a bad spot. Is
the same his taiale was Regulus basically the in fright.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
No no no no, Regulars called him back.

Speaker 5 (58:44):
Oh I thought, okay, maybe like I didn't. It's been
while since I revisited that. I could have sworn it. Yeah,
Regulus called him. He didn't, okay, because the way he's
just because I know he said, your master asked regular
Master asked creature to come back. I thought he said
that preemptively, like his order was like go back home

(59:04):
like before, like you know, no matter what happens, get
back calm or something like that.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Nah, creature would have been creature probably would have still
been in that cave if Regulus did not summon him back.

Speaker 6 (59:15):
Okay, I don't think regular summoned him back. I think
what just been saying is correct because I because Regulus
would have never known when to summon back. I don't
think if they know that he went with Voldemort.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
So like, listeners, listen, we don't have Alison on here
and I'm not going to get receipts listeners. Correct us. Okay,
let us know, let us know in the comments it's okay,
we can. Let's let's move on. Let's move on to Thiever.

Speaker 6 (59:42):
Yeah, so you Hermione asked a question about like what
went wrong with the ministry or whatever, like something. You know,
Harry Steeling mad ass a mad odds is the dumbest
thing I have ever I remember reading the book for
the first time and him doing that and going, wow,
I know that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
It's the talking about when did Harry still mad eyes I.

Speaker 6 (01:00:04):
In the previous chapter. That's how I knew something.

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
It was on Umberge's door, and Harry was like, that's
no place removing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Okay, okay, my bad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
You want me to read to you said, I said,
my bad, you couldn't move on.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
I would like to make a motion that the previous
chapter be read in its entirety.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
Yeah, yeah, like like hey, just like Harry Bianca owned
up to because Harry's like, it was my fault, which
does not always happen. Sometimes Harry's like, oh, like that's
not like you know, so I mad Props for Harry
being like, okay, I screwed up.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
This was, uh, you know, because I.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
Mean that's one thing Harry's never learned throughout these entire
because from the I still remember in the with the
Mountain troll says Harry then did something that was both
very brave and very stupid. Like if there was one
sentence that summarizes Harry as a character.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
It's that.

Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
Yeah, so Bianca spoiler sorry, Harry says in this in
this chapter, I'm stuck it on her office door to
spawn people. I couldn't leave it there. They were intruders.
So as as everyone here knows, I am very Gryffindor,
I am as Gryffindori as I have ever known someone

(01:01:14):
to be a Gryffindor. This is the stupidest thing of
all time. I don't care about nobility. I don't care
about the right thing to do. Oh man, I thought mad.
I wouldn't want to thought about it. Man, I wouldn't
want you to die in the ministry full Like, what
are you doing? Harry? That's all I got. I'm just

(01:01:34):
I'm so mad, I get.

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
I think moody like that isn't a very vigilant thing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:39):
And constant vigilance and Ali says and that's kind of
a it's not a very like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:43):
If I would have wanted I would have been like
I would have made a mental note personally, if it
was me, i'd be like, Okay, when this is over,
I'm going back to the ministry And no.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Actually, what I'm mad about is why didn't you use
the eelator? Like I feel like, all you through after this,
this eye that can see through things probably could have
come in handy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
So if you're gonna see it, why not use it?

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
See?

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
This is what I'm actually more mad about it.

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
That's actually I don't know if we've already done the
Kageray visit for the previous chapter already, but like if
if Elmbridge is using the eye to spawn people like,
what is she? What's the viewer? You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
I think doesn't it? I think it says there's like
a telescope attachment sticking out of the back of her door.
But I don't have a specific citation for that.

Speaker 6 (01:02:30):
Hmm. Yeah, I don't know any.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Figure it out, attach it to something, because.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Otherwise I actually thought Harry burying the eye was quite sentimental.
It's like he can't bury mad eye but he can
bury the mad eye. I thought it was, But then again,
I'm an extremely sentimental person, so I would have probably
I wouldn't have been thinking about like, oh, Matt, I

(01:02:57):
wouldn't have wanted it. I wouldn't have been thinking about
it that way. I would have been thinking of it
as this is literally all we have left of him
now because wizard God only knows what they did with
the rest of his body. So this cannot stay here,
which it is so twisted and gross because say what
you will about Voldemort, he does not display human body

(01:03:18):
parts on his furniture. That is so metal.

Speaker 6 (01:03:25):
I mean, I'm that's a cannibal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Corpse song waiting to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
I'm just airing on the side of Umbridge does not
get to have this.

Speaker 6 (01:03:32):
I'm not. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
I don't care that it was risky. I am not sentimental, Umbridge.
You don't get to keep this eye like I don't
like I'm that is I don't know that that's where
I'm going with that. Like I said, I'm not, I'm
not sens well I shouldn't. I'm not sentimental at all.
But this is like the first Maybe it's not the
first time, but it's one of the first times that
we hear Ron being super Parannoyd my ring Light is dead.

(01:03:54):
Oh no, this is the first time, it's okay, Charger,
that we hear Ron's paranoia about using Voldemort's name.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Is this intuition.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Because at this point we don't have any I mean,
now I know that they did. The Death Eater did
show up on whatever that street was when we were
in the coffee shop. I know that the death the
death Eater showed up there, so we technically have proved,
but we don't know yet.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
So is this just like intuition from Ron?

Speaker 5 (01:04:22):
I thought Ron over he's saying the ministry that they
that the taboo na.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
That's later that's the way he abandons them and comes
back he finds out about the taboo, because then he
has that specifically. He does say though, that it feels
like a curse. So I actually think it might be intuition.
And it's interesting to me that of all the people
to actually have that intuition, that it would be Ron,

(01:04:53):
because he's not the most like open minded, open hearted,
like emotionally sensitive person to where he would feel the
vibes as it were. However, he is the only one
of the three of them that wouldn't want to use
the name in the first place. So if you're gonna
sprinkle this in as kind of foreshadowing for what's coming later,

(01:05:17):
he's the only vehicle that they have to deliver it
now because the only other two people in this arrangement
are okay with saying the name, so they're not going
to have the same intuition that he is.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Ah okay, and I will full in it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
For the longest time, I thought, like, you've opened something
up to me, because I was like, why didn't Ron
just come out and say it? Because I thought that
was like, that's a little why is he withholding this information?
He didn't have the information, So thank you for clearing that.
I may I'm just slow on the uptaking that because
I will.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Yeah, it's okay. It's sometimes we have to go back
and reconstruct the timeline to figure out when people knew
things and when they didn't, because if you put those
things in different order, then it raises all those questions.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
And we're reading these we're reading these things one chapter
out of like however chapters.

Speaker 6 (01:06:07):
Yeah, we are, we are.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Chapters in order.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
No, it's like you're reading this chapter in the Deathly Hollows,
and then you watch the Order of the Phoenix movies
two weeks ago, and then you're on your eleven three reading,
you're reading Chamber of Secrets.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
So yeah, it's just listeners. They just know to give
us grace.

Speaker 6 (01:06:24):
Yeah. Like, but just the fact that Ron kind of
he pieced it together. I mean he he says it
feels like the name is Jinx. It doesn't. We don't
have any real reason to know that. Actually. So, I
mean that happened back at like right when they left
the wedding, when they were on Tottenham Court Road. I
think that they said Baltimore when they were inside number

(01:06:45):
twelve grim a place, and that is why the first
death theater started showing up out at the in the courtyard.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
I think that. I think that's correct because we know
that's that that is how they track them to the cafe.

Speaker 6 (01:06:58):
Yeah, so and then so here, I think that he's
just I think Ron is very fearful. Okay, I don't
think that. I don't think this is Ron like with
mega instincts. I think that Ron's instinct is I'm scared
of this. Stop saying it. Because Ron consistently throughout the series,
anytime anyone would say it, Ron still like tensed up

(01:07:18):
and like he is scared of the name. He is
exactly what Dumbledore didn't want people to do. But I
mean the majority of the Wizarding World tempts at the
name regardless. Now, right after this, he says, and it
makes Harry upset, Ron says that they just needed to
show Baltimort some respect, and like, if you just say, hey,

(01:07:41):
we need to respect Baltimore, I'm not saying that. I'm
not like at first off, I'm not saying you need
to like hold him up on a pedestal or anything
like that. I think that what it is you need
to respect the power that he has to not I
guess challenge him right now. I think that that's what
Ron's getting that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
I hear what you're.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Saying, but I don't care. You're not going to sit
here and tell me to respect somebody who killed my
parents like I do. I do understand what you're saying,
though it's like Olivander right, He's like he did terrible
things but great, like you have to acknowledge that Voldemore is.
I do understand that, but I just think I just
think it was poor. It was poor word choice, which
you know, it happens to all of us, but I
think that you don't say that in front of someone

(01:08:24):
about their parents' murderer, like yeah, you gotta respect him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Like yeah, I will punch you in the face.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
No I do not, and I absolutely will not, but
I hear you. I also love how this like sweet moment.
This is what I thought I was gonna say earlier
about the sentiment. But whenever Ron was, he was wondering,
how was it creature?

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
He was wondering. Ron was wondering how somebody was doing
who was it?

Speaker 6 (01:08:51):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Thank you? He was wondering.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
He was just like, you know, saying that he hoped
that they're okay. And then like Hermione looking at Ron
with the tenderness, I was just like, ah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
I was like you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Says the sentimental one.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Okay, excuse me, I am sentimental. Around the clock. Ron
has these moments of sentimentality that remind you that he's
actually about as emotionally constipated as Vernon Dursley, which to me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Is great because it's called balance.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Don't matter, need Nobody sentimental twenty first seven, Like, at
some point you got to bring some logic in some
analysis into this.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Okay, So, like a moment of sentimentality per every ten
moments of emotional constipation is balance? Sounds right, that's balance.

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
That's balance.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
That's it is.

Speaker 5 (01:09:38):
He said emotional range of a tea spoon, range of
a t spoon anyway, about the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Size of the teaspoon. But all right, but this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
See yeah, this is also foreshadowing because obviously later on
in this book, it's like, this is the moment where
her mind he just can't handle that tenderness anymore, and
she just drops all of the basilisk thankings and jumps
into his arm.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
So I do like that one. Yeah, I like that one.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
Yeah, that was nice.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Is this the moment?

Speaker 4 (01:10:16):
Yeah? And then it's not.

Speaker 5 (01:10:18):
It kind of pays off when Creatures kind of proves
the house elves can fight for themselves, that can take
care of themselves in a way. And like, because he's like,
we need to get them out. He's like, we don't
want more of them to die like Doby didn't. They're like,
we're fine, we're gonna go stab these death theaters.

Speaker 4 (01:10:30):
And the shins. It's cool, and.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
You know which I like, I like how there's this
there is this evolution of like the way house elves
are represented in which I feel like I have to mention, I, uh,
you know this. For the past three years have been
reading to a child during his lunch break, and I
read him second grade Chamber of Secrets. Their great person
of ass been fourth grade Gobblet of Fire, and he
was fully with Hermione the whole time on her fight

(01:10:54):
for elf rights in that, which I was very happy
to see because I know a lot of people are like, oh, well,
don't they take her seriously? This is really like a joke,
and yeah, they should have taken her seriously. But I
just like that, you know how sympathetic they all are
towards it, and that they do come around to remind
his way of thinking more or less in their own way,
as narrow minded or as short emotionally stunted as something

(01:11:16):
can be.

Speaker 6 (01:11:16):
Yeah. Now, I think another piece of ron showing concern
for the Catermoulds has to do with him feeling like
he probably had something to do with their with their
issues that they're having, Like he feels responsible. Now, granted,
I mean the woman the waff was going in to
be questioned by the MOGI Board Registration office. So like

(01:11:38):
not a good situation at all. It would have been
helpful if the husband. Maybe it maybe could have been
helpful if the husband was there, but like the situation
that they're in. I think Ron is also like, oh,
I made that way worse, and so that's some of that.
That's also some of the concern that he's showing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
I think I think that's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
The point is like how many times do we read
something or you see a movie where there's so much
collateral damage and people don't even think twice about it.
So I think that that that is making the point
is that yeah, like they they impersonated these people, and
you know, obviously they couldn't have expected everything, but yeah,

(01:12:18):
exactly like and and they're recognizing that we played a
role in like, you know, some pretty catastrophic things that
happened today at the ministry instead of just being like,
well it was for the greater good and that that's
not a dig ad. But they just feel like we're
not we're not, we are not going to have that

(01:12:38):
debate just saying I am acknowledging what Josh said and
just saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
I think that's why it's even more beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
They are acknowledging that, hey, we're doing this stuff, but
what we're doing is also impacting other.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
People as well, people they assaulted.

Speaker 5 (01:12:52):
Yeah, exactly, which I realized most things go belly up
in the previous chapter because Harry is so emotionally stunted
and impulsive, because he's the one who stuns Umbridge from
underneath the invisibility cloak when she's like pretending that the
about lying about the locket and that sort of thing.
So he like he's the reason. First he takes the
hole and that lets people know the eye out of

(01:13:14):
the hole, and that lets people know, oh, there's something
wrong here. And then he just completely up ends the
tea table and is like, okay, we're and of course
they're like, oh, well those people shouldn't be here because
they're attacking Umbridge, and it just all goes to poop
poo from there.

Speaker 6 (01:13:32):
Yeah, well, stupid Gryffindor. All right, we don't have to
spend a lot of time on it. I did just
want to call out the protective spells that were used
around the campsite, that they get used throughout the book,
don't we don't know any of these except for Muffiato. Uh,
they are Salvio Hexia, portago to tell them, Propello, Muggletum, Muffliato,

(01:13:57):
and cave in a mackimm Yeah. So it's it's really
just cool that that hermione one knows these spells. We
don't have any reason for her to know these other
than muffly Auto. The only things that we could really

(01:14:20):
come in at, uh protago to Tallum. That's pretty self explanatory.
Repella muggletum is a Muggle respect repelling charm, I reckon
And so these sound these sound like spells that very
much got used around Hogwarts except for muffly Auto of probably,

(01:14:44):
But like, it's really interesting hearing uh here in the
narration talk about whenever she whenever she casts these like
it it looked like a heat Hayes was all around
that kind of stuff. Do so I really I don't
have I don't have anything to really add to that
other than just really cool spells. I would love to
know where she got them all, and then adding in

(01:15:06):
musly Auto was super smart.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
Partako to Talum I believe was also at the end
when everybody was protecting the castle. I never Etherea in
the books, but I'm I'm ninety percent sure that that
was one of the ones, and that might even be
from the movie, and that might be that might not
even be Cannon. But no, I like this as well, Josh,
because I think it's I think it's just also cool
to see to witness them learning things that we didn't

(01:15:32):
witness them learn.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Did that even make sense?

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Like, I think it's cool whenever we get to see
these spells. That's one of the reasons I even love
the scenes with like the Death Eaters and like seeing
because honestly, I was so sick of stupefi I was like, bro,
come on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Like can we can we do anything else?

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
And I thought that that scene in the ministry in
the Department of Mysteries was really cool. I love whenever
we get to hear about new spells because it does
make you ponder, like how long have they known that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Had they practiced it?

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
And knowing hermione because keep in mind, she's already been
packed for weeks. Knowing Hermioney, she probably was practicing these
spells around the borough like when people, you know, like
whenever she was on her own and whenever she was preparing,
didn't prepare food, but she did.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
She practiced these spells.

Speaker 6 (01:16:16):
Yep, so we uh partaco to talum. It's not used
at the end of the book. It may be it
may be in the movie, but it's not at the book.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
I think, Yeah, I think I think it's in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
I don't think it's Yeah, because even as I'm saying,
and I'm even as I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Like thinking about it, I'm envisioning like the movie in
my head.

Speaker 6 (01:16:31):
Yeah. The only the only place any of these spells
show up again in word form in the book is
chapter twenty two, and that she's casting the spells for
the camps out again. Yeah. Yeah, so just just really cool.
We just wanted to just wanted to kind of dump
that in there, give her props. And and my speculation
is that these are spells that are used to protect

(01:16:52):
Hogwarts as well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 5 (01:16:55):
It wouldn't surprise me if Hermione read it in Hogwarts
of History and then she was like, oh, well, I'd
better learn to do those and that sort of thing,
because that seems to be like her favorite book. She
always cites it, and she always tells Harry and Run.

Speaker 4 (01:17:06):
To read it and they never do.

Speaker 6 (01:17:08):
Yeah, I get it. I'm trying to figure out if
I think that it would be in Hogwarts' history. I
don't think there is a good practice to tell what
the protective spells around the castle are.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
But it may not be in the It may not
be in the book. In relation to this is how
you protect the castle. It can just be if you
find yourself in a scenario where you are near muggles
and you want them, because we see that all the time.
Like it's not like protective doesn't necessarily have to be
like you're under attack, but they the the Wizarding Road
is hidden, so it could just be in general, like
if you want to hide anything from muggles, then here

(01:17:42):
are some spells. I mean, to be honest, I'm pretty
disappointed if the Hogwarts spells aren't like better, like I
mean to me for a whole castle, Like it's the
same thing as like this this square footage when we
use the exact same spell, you probably or you know what,
just add maximum.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
There you go.

Speaker 6 (01:17:59):
They they I just got. I'm sorry, I just got that.
That was really funny. Good job they are. There are
different spells. It talks about Hogwarts being predicted by an
ancient magic all account stuff. But yeah, anyway, all right,
let's talk about the horror cruk let move ones.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Let's talk about the locket. Okay, Harry has this violent
I put did I know? I said that, right, violent
urge to swing the locket from him, And I'm trying
to understand is this in any way, shape or form
related to Harry also being or hor crugs or is
it just or is he just like disgusted because he's

(01:18:41):
like I don't want because it's a hork crugs, and
because he knows what it represents, Like is there actually
some kind of pull happening here? And because we know
that the locket also impacts other people, like we know that,
but I'm just curious at this point. Is it just like, oh,
the horror Crucs are just being a hor crugs or
is it something like the horn Crux and Harry is

(01:19:02):
trying to like get to the horn Crux in in
the locket.

Speaker 6 (01:19:06):
I definitely do not think that it's the horror Crucks
and Harry. That's a that is a megamovie ism that
I hate. One of the reasons I don't watch the
movies anymore because that buzzing sound when Harry's around the
horror Cruxes drives me nuts. But anyway, I think that
it is Harry thinking about like he's he finally sees it.

(01:19:27):
He sees this thing that he's been after, not only
like with Ron Hermione, but he was after it with Dumbledore.
I think that when he sees it, he realizes, like
all it has taken to have this in his hand,
like all the lives that that that this one object
has taken. So like even if you look at that,
the lives are whoever was killed to create it, which

(01:19:48):
I don't know if we know for sure. Regulus died
trying to trying to destroy it, Dumbledore died trying to
retrieve it, uh, and now Ron almost died. So I
think that it's all those things of like you know,
you want something, you want something, you want something, now
you have it, and then now you're thinking about all
one I'm not any more closer to destroying this thing

(01:20:10):
than I was before having it, and now now that
I have it, all of the things I've lost looking
for it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
Yeah, and then the person who you wanted to die
umbrage is like he's out there, still living out there
still living her best life. He's like, man, at this locket, No,
that's completely fair. Do we have any thoughts on why
the horre crux does not take in body heat?

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
I think it just has to be some sort of
like magical thing, because it's not just a lockett anymore.
It's got like a magical like it's almost and I
think probably has something to also the fact that Boltimore
is such a cold, unfeeling. I'm like, I'm sure that's
also like probably why he feels the urge to fling
it away, because if you told me that you know,

(01:20:58):
this object contains the soul of the most evil person
in history, I would be like, get that away from
me as well.

Speaker 6 (01:21:05):
So, uh but uh yeah, And as far as it
taken in body heat, I really I don't know, Beyonce.
This thing, this thing just acts so differently than any
of the other horse cruxes that we have. It doesn't
take in heat, it doesn't like it has a heartbeat,
hello creep, and then like and then when it's opened,

(01:21:26):
like when it's finally opened, it knows exactly what has
been like on Ron's mind and like his biggest like
spots of paranoia of anxiety all these all these kinds
of things, you know what I mean, It's just it's
just weird at how how it goes back behind any
of the other horr cruxes and how they work.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yeah, And I know that this is something that's been
discussing the fandom as well about how it's just like
with the horr cruxes, and it just it feels like
whenever you started out like this is where all the
energy was, and then the more you the more corrects
you got, you were just like, eh, you know whatever,
you got this ring that had the ability to like, you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Know, Blacken the greatest Wizard.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Of all time, like his whole arm, and then you
have like the and then and then it just and
then you get to the cup and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
It's just oh it's a cup.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Well yeah, like it's just yeah, I think it's it's there.
We don't we don't have an answer. We don't we
don't really know. But at the end of the day,
it did. It didn't make it cool. I will say
like this it made for a cool story for us
to read because of the way that it reacted. And
I feel like this was to say, this is the
most relatable horror croak sounds crazy. But that's that's kind

(01:22:41):
of how I look at it in terms of like
a diary. Okay, yeah, someone might pick up a diary
and decide to write in it, but honestly that's kind
of a toss up. But for something to open up
and to just like spill out all of your insecurity.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
Like that was like that was rough.

Speaker 5 (01:22:58):
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought
to myself, like what would I be shown if I
open up the lock if they'll like it opened up
in front of me, Like, what would it be saying
and doing to me?

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
If podcast question of the week? Well, what the listeners
I'm kidding nobody answered this. Keep that to your.

Speaker 4 (01:23:18):
Sudie, please please please?

Speaker 6 (01:23:20):
Well, and the thing, the thing is too I think
I think that that matters. Just don't know how long
that you've worn the locket though. It's just like with
the diary, the diary started taking energy and things from
Jenny because Jenny would tell it more and more and
more and more things about her. The locket seems like
it it's almost as almost an osmosis kind of deal

(01:23:43):
of like you wear it and it and it and
it learns your heart. It learns your don't know, it
learns your insecurities things like that. It's just it's really
really interesting. I mean, and I put it, I put
it in the dock here, and I was trying to
like make relations to different not like emotions, but just

(01:24:05):
like different aspects that each hor Cruks kind of takes on,
because you know, especially with the lockett, you know, the
thing that goes inside of the locket is supposed to
be like a picture of someone that you love and
all those kinds of things. And even in Ron's case,
whenever it opens up, it shows the one that he loves,
but it also shows him losing that love or or

(01:24:26):
not not being able to have that love. So like
the diary I think is pretty easy. It's memory. It
acts as a penze for you know, for all intents
and purposes, the locket is love. The ring is like
the ring having the hallows on it. Does ring have
a halos on it? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
And the little it has the slither and something on it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:46):
I thought they had the Peperyl coat of arms.

Speaker 5 (01:24:48):
Yeah, the ring inside the beast because it's the it's
the resurrection stone.

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
Yeah, yeah, it has the Peeryl coat of arms, which
is the definitely hallows and so like that could be notoriety.
The diadem is intelligent, unser or whatever. The cup the
cup is hard, I put. I put sustenance down for it,
that that it would represent sustenance, which they don't have
on this trip here. I wish that the cup had
like a like have power though, like we're never told

(01:25:14):
if it like you know, if you're hungry, well, food appear,
if you're thirsty, you know, all these kind of things
we're told that's the diadem. If you wear it, you
gain intelligence. The you know whatever, unc GUINEI is lift
because it is someone actually a living creature, Voldemort's self.
And then Harry is arrogance just because I didn't have
anything else to put and he tried to kill a baby.

(01:25:38):
So anyway, that's that's what I had. Listeners tell me
if you agree or disagree with any of those.

Speaker 3 (01:25:43):
But I was trying something one thing I wanted to
plan out, thank.

Speaker 6 (01:25:47):
You, not where I ended up, but where I was going.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
See, I would say, we don't know for sure that
the ring doesn't take in body. He and we know
that the thing about the horre cruxes that always fascinated
me was not just where they were hidden, but the
specific magical protection that went into each one, because the
magical protection that was within the Ring felt very similar

(01:26:18):
to the locket, except that one was a curse and
the other is like some kind of psychological battery test.
But still they are protections that come from within, so
it's not so much where it is, but what's inside
it that makes it truly dangerous. And in the case

(01:26:40):
of both of those objects, those are the ones that
would I think be the most sentimental to Voldemort, because
he saw it grandeur in his horror cruxes, like he
wanted particularly significant magical objects that connected him to his school,
the magical world, and in the case of things like

(01:27:02):
the Diadem, I would even say things that nobody else
was ever able to find accept him, which makes him
that just feeds his superiority complex. But the Ring and
the Locket in particular, these are things that remind him
that not only is he able to boast being the
best kind of wizard, even though technically he's not a

(01:27:24):
pure blood himself, but that he's a direct descendant of
one of the greatest wizards of all time, somebody that
he wants to model himself against. But the inability to
take in body heat. Just think about I can't pull
out a bunch of examples, but I feel like I'm

(01:27:46):
right in sensing that feeling like the warmth of another person,
like what radiates from their body, what radiates within oneself.
It's one of the things that really truly humanizes a character,
especially in literature, because you can feel something like that

(01:28:08):
very strongly and not necessarily know the words to put
to it. But in this case, Voldemort is somebody who
has become so disconnected from humanity that he wouldn't have
an ounce of warmth to give. So these horror cruxes
that are most deeply connected to who he is as

(01:28:31):
a person are unable to take in one of the
most relatable humanistic qualities.

Speaker 5 (01:28:38):
For one thing, that makes a lessense because as this
discussion's been going on, I was thinking about it, and yeah,
for one thing, like it makes cause you know, not
to get like almost philosophical, but thinking about like what
a soul is and like what it means, Like what
like we understand it's a piece of his soul, but
like what does that piece look like?

Speaker 4 (01:28:53):
What is that piece like? And whatnot? And I think,
for one thing, it makes sense that the.

Speaker 5 (01:28:57):
Diary is the first horr crux he created, and so
it makes sense that it appears his teenage self because
that was almost like everything he had.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
Up until that point.

Speaker 5 (01:29:07):
And you know, I think you're right and like and
you know, the luck it contains his in humanity, The
Ring contains you know, his superior I know we have
notoriety in here, but I'm thinking about like I think
it would almost it would reject pretty much anybody else
who tries to wear it, because you know, whether it's
Dumbledore or like anybody, it won't surprise me if Voldemort

(01:29:28):
himself would wear it, and it would be he would
be fine. And we don't spend enough time with the
dia dam or the Cup to I feel like if
we did, we might have gotten a better idea of
what they would do throughout, because you know, something similar
with you know, like we don't spend a lot of
time with the Ring, we'd see like I'm pretty sure
Dumbledore had a fair amount of time with it before
he tried it, so uh, and same thing where ne

(01:29:48):
Guini's like his pet, so hence there's a lot of
emotional attachment there.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
And yeah, it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:55):
Does make a certa amount of sense that either arrogance
or superior like something. I mean, it's been dissected to death.
How many similarities there are between Voldemort and Harry Like ye,
not just as they've become, as they've evolved as people,
but even inherently so I think it makes sense that
those things, like why they would they do sometimes would

(01:30:16):
make they make similar choices and whatnot. So it just
kind of makes sense that those would, like latch on,
I forgot where I was going with this, but those
were just some things that came to my mind throughout
this conversation.

Speaker 6 (01:30:26):
Yeah, and specifically with the Lockett, like with the like
with what you said about it being account of the
most innate pieces of a person. It's it's really telling
that the Lockett is the most protected type of like
horre kirks that that we really see with I mean,
maybe not the cup. The cup ends up getting moved

(01:30:47):
to Belatrix's ball and things like that. Yeah, I understand,
But like the psychological aspect of it is interesting because
just to get the Lockett you go through a psychological
deal of like well, I mean, in Baltimore's case, you're
you have to murder someone to drink the potion and
then they go into the the in theory. But like

(01:31:08):
if you're not, we saw what happened to Dumbledore, and
you know all those kinds of things, so like there's
that psychological aspect, and then if you actually get it,
then you wear it, then you're going through your own
kind of psychological deal too. So it's really I don't know,
I think it's really cool setup because love is probably
the thing that Baltimore wants the most, and well not

(01:31:30):
want maybe not wants the most, but maybe fears the most.
You know, it's the thing that it's the thing that
Harry has that Dumbledore.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
Doesn't understands the least for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
Into Baltimore's cases, I think, yeah, maybe that might be
a unique almost like Harry think because like Harry is
like all love and Baltimore is no love, so it
might make I think that also makes sense that I mean,
we don't like, we don't care what Ron or Harmione
feel or sense as they grasp it that there's you
know that oh like it's not you know, it doesn't

(01:31:59):
feel warm or something like that. But because it does
tract that Baltimore is pretty much the only pure evil
character in the entire everyone else has some ship, some
shades of gray where it's like, okay, you probably aren't
you Umbridge? No, okay, no, she's yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:32:17):
Okay, not the exception, the exception, the rule.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
And Umbradge loves rules.

Speaker 4 (01:32:27):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
And for for you know, for my thoughts on that
go back to the episode the Hogwarts High Inquisitor.

Speaker 6 (01:32:35):
Yeah, which, yeah, oh boy, you go ahead mark it out, Bianca,
I don't if you don't want to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
It, I don't want to talk about what what?

Speaker 6 (01:32:44):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
What are we not talking about?

Speaker 6 (01:32:46):
What are we not talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
What? I don't know where we are in the dock.
Inside my head, I was just like I.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
Was like winter V we were dissecting horror cruxes, and
I think we are.

Speaker 6 (01:32:58):
We're done.

Speaker 3 (01:32:59):
No, I think now we're at the part where we
want to just kind of briefly talk for a moment
about how truly awful it is living in this forest,
going from place to place, feeling like you're wandering aimlessly.
I mean, this is not I don't know if there's
such a thing as a good place or time to
be guarding a horn crooks that has the ability to

(01:33:22):
cause seasonal effective disorder. But when you are camping one
piece of forest land after another with absolutely no food,
no plan, nothing, and you and your friends are already
kind of not fighting with each other, but things are tense,

(01:33:47):
they're strained. A dab of all of this, you got
this horror Crooks just causes seasonal effective disorder.

Speaker 2 (01:33:58):
The I thing on the ca the hore crux, is like, oh,
life is bad. Your life sucks right now, things are
going too good for God. Let me let me just
let me just plant some seeds of doubt in your head.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Let me just remind you. And actually, how horrible of
a person you are. Oh Harry, Yeah he got your
girl Hermione don't want you, Harry. They're talking about you
behind your back, which actually they were talking about him.
Mind that actually was true, They actually were talking about Harry.
I mean, listen, it's it was. It was a little
bit inevitable, unfortunately. But my whole thing about the forest,

(01:34:35):
I know that we we kind of started off this
chapter discussion talking a little bit about the food, and
I'm just like, y'all are in a forest at no
point in time, birds, rabbits, foxes, deers, does kidding not
a dough not a dough.

Speaker 3 (01:34:52):
I'm kidding, but yay, you know what, Go kill a
dough and bring it in front of Harry and see
how he se how he likes you then.

Speaker 5 (01:35:01):
Or even say well we're having venison for dinner, like
I mean I said.

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
That would would that would be poetic you guys, Like,
think about it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
If they if they kill a doe and.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
Ate a dough is what stood between Harry and death
as a baby and now as an adult. Imagine if
a dough is what stood between Harry and starvation.

Speaker 4 (01:35:27):
It's like poetry rhymes.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
Well you didn't share it with the trio, Josh, So
I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (01:35:35):
It's huh.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
Let see, I mean I just to be in a
forest and to be starving to me and Ma the way,
I have full transparency. I say this as the person
who would be the chicken who would not do any
of these this hunting, but I would eat it. Okay,
Like I'm so, I'm very aware of my hypocrisy here,
but I'm like, it's three of y'all. It's three of
y'all I hate. And you have a wand mind you

(01:36:02):
you can you don't, you don't gotta, Okay, real life
hunting completely different. Are you serious?

Speaker 6 (01:36:09):
It's unfa you could.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
I think we're a little passed.

Speaker 5 (01:36:14):
But the juices leak out in the flavor, and the
juices leak out the.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Ju Yeah, that's what I mean, Like, that's that's how
it works.

Speaker 4 (01:36:25):
The juice is the blood.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
But but so actually everything would stay intact.

Speaker 6 (01:36:33):
You want to cut it up to eat it?

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Yes, okay, well yeah, but I thought I thought he
was saying that the juices came.

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
No, no, no, The question is.

Speaker 3 (01:36:43):
The unforgivable curse spoil the meat? I want to know,
is it? That's hardly the most ridiculous question we have
asked on this show.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
I don't know, Jeff, you might be onto something like
like eating cursed meat.

Speaker 4 (01:37:01):
Yeah, how do we know it's.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
There has to be some kind of car over there.

Speaker 6 (01:37:06):
If you use an unforgivable curse on an animal and
then eat the animal, is the is the meat curse?

Speaker 4 (01:37:14):
Yeah? How do we know?

Speaker 5 (01:37:15):
It's not like eating a burger from a cow that
died a mad cow disease or.

Speaker 6 (01:37:18):
Something like that, and then you know what, maybe that's
what mad cow disease is. It came from England.

Speaker 4 (01:37:24):
I don't know if that's true or not according to
Muggle science.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
Great job, everybody. We just saw the food crisis. I
don't know how we did that, but we did it
pretty sure well.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Speaking of food crisis, man, these mushrooms, I.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
This is I don't stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
What I want to understand is did the author put
this in here just to really emphasize how horrible the situation, like,
just to make it more tense, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
Everybody can relate, because everyone can relate, you know good
and well that you know, you can have a lot
of things going wrong with your day, but if you
eat a good meal, you're like, well, yes, yeah, that
person has pissed me off, but I'm a little bit less.

Speaker 1 (01:38:09):
And they even said it at some point whenever they
had like the eggs and bread, like Harry even said, like,
you know, like their spirits were lifted because they were
on a full or something. So honestly, I feel like
I feel like it was really plot this whole thing
of like not because hermiony' forgetting to bring food. That's
just not likely, But I but I think that it
made it very convenient for this story of really hyping
up how horrible this situation is like, y'all are already homeless.

(01:38:32):
You're in the forest. You ain't got no hor cruxis
he mad at him? He splinched up. And to top
it all off, you're hungry.

Speaker 6 (01:38:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that I think the
mushrooms are put in there, not because I think it's
I think it's to really just say, hey, things are
things are dire, you know yea, and I mean the
three of them. It's man, it's just really interesting that
they did not even think about honey, especially whenever we
know how easy it was. Later in the book we

(01:39:02):
see somebody go achio salmon and it just comes about
the water, like.

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):
Uh huh it was I think this was plot.

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
I gotta give the trio more credit than this. This
just this has to be plot, because.

Speaker 3 (01:39:14):
Yeah, nowhere I want to say this though, just eating
wild mushrooms that is so stupid. You can die that way?
Did you know you can die that way? They don't
know that those mushrooms aren't poisonous. Where did all this
mushroom doleage come from?

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
The poison?

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
Like okay, okay, you can you can do out the
if you can stew poison out of mushrooms. They would
not need to study antidotes that hardened potions class.

Speaker 6 (01:39:44):
I am just saying, yeah, that's like, that's like sucking
out the rat snake venom. Don't do that. It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
I kind of work.

Speaker 3 (01:39:53):
It doesn't work. It does not. No, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Not that I was ever gonna do it, but.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
I mean might cross your mind to try. If it
was like your kid who got it would not like.
But anyway, point is like, I want there to be
an alternate universe where that is Ron's re entry into
the series instead of the whole Hoore crux pool, dough
sword whatever. Thing that happens is Harry's just on a

(01:40:22):
walk through the woods. He picks up some mushrooms and
it's like that one scene in the Survivor Man episode
of the Office where Ron comes running along. No, no, Harry,
he tackles him and drags the mushrooms out of his mouth.

Speaker 6 (01:40:35):
Yeah, okay, he didn't get it. We're in we're in
the tent that does this? Is this the TMP that
smells like like cats?

Speaker 4 (01:40:45):
Cats?

Speaker 3 (01:40:46):
Yes? I love that you said p first though, Yeah,
like didn't say the cat's peede.

Speaker 6 (01:40:53):
Yeah, just smells like cats. Probably, but it was.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
It was in there.

Speaker 4 (01:41:02):
All right, already into.

Speaker 3 (01:41:04):
Zeke from Bob's Burgers for a second.

Speaker 6 (01:41:06):
Harry starts to have Harry starts to see in the
Baltimort's mind. First thing that he hears is give it
to me, Grigorovitch the one maker.

Speaker 4 (01:41:16):
Hot, which does not sound wrong out of context whatsoever.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
Hey, Boldemore winning got him some, all right? Good for
good for him. It is a long lonely life.

Speaker 6 (01:41:27):
At this This whole series would have been a lot
shorter if he would have just got something.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
Oh my god, I'm not disagreeing, but Gregorovitch this you're asleep,
but all of a sudden you just Hearovich.

Speaker 3 (01:41:44):
Is all time that Boldemort's like, give it me.

Speaker 4 (01:41:48):
He's like, I don't have it.

Speaker 6 (01:41:54):
Left.

Speaker 2 (01:41:54):
Give what we need to move on?

Speaker 6 (01:41:59):
All right. I don't want to.

Speaker 3 (01:42:00):
I want to let's talk about this is the show.

Speaker 6 (01:42:03):
Now, this is the show that me and Jeff are
going to start after a little more at Wow, can I.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
Breakaicking me off? Was crazy? Like I'll say, like, I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:42:15):
I like myself as a guest.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Justin maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
As a land Wood Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
Oh my god, perfect name, perfect name.

Speaker 3 (01:42:30):
Wow, And this show, Josh, and I will be trying
every one in the shop now in every way me.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
Do not invite me as a guest. Never mind, I'm
gonna stay off.

Speaker 6 (01:42:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Oh thirteen and a half inches springy.

Speaker 2 (01:42:46):
Alright, remembering on weird Okay, So anyways.

Speaker 4 (01:42:52):
She'll free to use that in the socials plug.

Speaker 5 (01:42:54):
I have no problem, all right, I do not my
encouraging of this behavior and getting involved as well, you know,
no regrets.

Speaker 3 (01:43:02):
All right, Back anyway, back to the guy from the
Twilight movies.

Speaker 6 (01:43:06):
All right, so we have Harry singing into Voldemort's mind
to see him with Grigorovitch. There what what what impresses me,
I guess is Harry being able to then continue with
Voldemort while using legitilemans on Grigorovitch to see that memory.

Speaker 3 (01:43:28):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:43:29):
So it's like it's like a two tiered into the
brain situation. I think I just thought that was really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:43:35):
And this is where a lot of times when we
talk about the last time these chapters were talked about
and we try to speculate where they got the title
for the episode from, this is where the title for
the previous discussion of this would have come from. Legitillim
inception because I agree with Josh. It's the I think it.

Speaker 6 (01:43:56):
Came out.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
Yeah, because it's what it is. You're already Harry's already
seeing inside Voldemort's you know, mind, and he's seeing what
he's experiencing. But he's also able to see what Voldemort
is witnessing through the use of legilimancy. So does that

(01:44:18):
mean I would almost wonder if that means that by
using this connection over and over instead of blocking it
out like double Door wanted Harry to, is it getting
stronger or did she just not think to include this
legitilimate inception detail until now.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
I don't know if it's getting.

Speaker 6 (01:44:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
I don't I was about to have one argument and
then immediately they were bundle popped up in my head.
So well, like I can, I can see both sides, see,
I could agree, I could be talked into both.

Speaker 6 (01:44:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:44:51):
I always thought it never seemed like a leap of lodge.
I mean, it's just like he sees everything Voldemort sees.
I don't see why there would be a cutoff at
legit or Okay, let's Josh seize there might be a cutoff.

Speaker 6 (01:45:02):
No, no, I don't. I was actually want to say
this happens when in the Order of the Phoenix, because
we're seeing through Thecghini's ohs, and Baltimore is possessing the
GHINEI at that time, so it I guess it makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:45:16):
Uh yeah, and I also we will say it's like again.
Another great example of these series having great setup and
payoff is that we were introduced in Passing to Greg
Gorvich and Goblet of Fire, which you you know, want
to know because like again, it would have been so
easy if it was just suddenly like, oh, here's this
one maker that you've never heard of before, but now
Voldemort's after Like it just it makes it feel like

(01:45:39):
it doesn't make it feel random, it doesn't make it
feel like convenient or something like that. Because then we
also have that teaser of you know, like in the
beginning at the bar where Harry's like muttering the name
in his sleep and then he sees crumbs wand and
Harry's like, oh now I remember, So it all feels
like earned and you know, paid off again. Same thing
with you know the tent where you know it's not
a crimis like oh yeah, I just happened to think

(01:46:01):
in case we need a tent. I got a tent.
It's like, no that it's you know, you remember that tent
from from the Gridge World Cup. I got that now,
Like it's a great way to set think again, It's
just I think there's nothing else these series is great
more or less. It's more often than not at setup
and payoff, at least from my analysis.

Speaker 6 (01:46:19):
Yeah. So, I mean, like looking through the memory, we
we get to see Grigorovidge running down the hallway, Grindebald
jumping out the window with the with the wand, and
I think he casts a spell back at Grigorovitch just
to do it, I guess. And then Baltimore comes back
out of that memory kills Grigorovitch doesn't have any use

(01:46:41):
for him because he doesn't know who the who the
person was. I wonder if Grigorovitch never really did know
who the who the thief was, or if he was lying,
because Baltimore doesn't seem to try to get like that
memory out. He just asks and Grigorovitch says no, Jeff, Yeah, And.

Speaker 3 (01:46:58):
Think about it, because that person, the young man who
stole that wand from Grigorovitch, does grow up to be
somebody who is quite famous. But this is one of
those things about the wizarding world and their limitations because
they don't have the same kind of technology that muggles have.

(01:47:20):
I mean, nowadays, if you mentioned somebody who is famous
or infamous, and you say that name to somebody, then
a lot of times they will if it's somebody that
I would think is more modern than they might recognize
what that person looks like now, but not necessarily back then.
But in the case of Grigorovitch, I would have thought

(01:47:41):
that he would be about as aware as anybody else
who Grindelwald was when he ends up becoming famous. But
how many people in living memory that were around for
the rise and fall of Grendelwald actually think about what
he looked like when he was a young man. And

(01:48:04):
we know that he saw his face, but we don't
know that he ever actually processed the information, merely that
it was there. So it almost makes me wonder if
when you use legitimacy on somebody, you aren't just pulling
up what they remember. You're pulling up the memories that
are inside their heads. So through the use of legitlimacy,

(01:48:25):
can you uncover repressed memories that even the person you're
using legitlimacy on does not know they still have. Can
it work that way?

Speaker 6 (01:48:36):
I think that you can definitely do that with a
pen seve like it. You can remove memories that that
maybe not legitlimens is a little yeah, actually, because well
I don't I'm trying. What I'm doing, Sorry, what I'm
doing is I'm thinking about when the occulimency lessons with Snape,
you know, isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
Wasn't there one repressed? It was like the pullar opposite.

Speaker 1 (01:48:58):
Like I felt like that was because he because of
how badly he didn't want Harry to think about them.
I feel like that is literally what brought them to
the certaince.

Speaker 6 (01:49:08):
I meant, I meant when Snape was doing it on Harry,
I thought that there was at least when Harry Harry
said that he didn't remember that one.

Speaker 3 (01:49:18):
I don't know if it was one he said he didn't.
I think it was. Oh, I thought that was that.
Wasn't that when he was lying because he was that
it was the one about the.

Speaker 6 (01:49:29):
Man when.

Speaker 3 (01:49:31):
Uh Rockwood was or whoever it was, was being interrogated
by Voldemort and Snape wanted to know from Harry, how
did that man and that room come to be inside
your head? And Harry says, I don't know, it was
just a dream.

Speaker 6 (01:49:49):
Yeah, but I thought that that was just a lie.

Speaker 3 (01:49:51):
That Harry was telling to cover for the fact that
he hadn't practiced.

Speaker 6 (01:49:55):
I think, I think, I think that's what I'm thinking about.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
But I can This is I've said before, and I'm
definitely one of these people where when I look at
the fact that they can extract these memories from their heads,
put them in a pensive, and play them back in
such vivid detail that you can literally immerse yourself in
the memory like a VR experience. I don't have any
memories that I can recall that vividly. I can recall

(01:50:23):
stuff that's happened, and I can recount it from my
own point of view, but there is nothing in my
head that I can remember so vividly that I could
even tell you what the people in the background were
doing at the time. So if you can do that
with the whatever magic you use to extract memories on

(01:50:46):
yourself to put them into a pensive, then to me
it stands to reason that you can use legitlimacy on
someone else and unlock memories that they didn't realize they
still had in their head somewhere. Even Snapes says that
the human mind is a very complex and many layered thing. Well,

(01:51:07):
most are, And this is where we're taking one of
the most relatable things in the world, the complexity of
the human mind, and one of the most unrelatable things
in the world, the use of magic on human beings.
That's only relatable in fiction because these things are fictional
for a reason. Magic in the real world does not

(01:51:29):
work the way that it does in books. But I
would think that if that's how we're looking at it,
then yes, human beings, even in this magical universe, can
have memories that they didn't realize they still had in
their heads, and that magic may be able to penetrate
the human mind and find them.

Speaker 6 (01:51:48):
Yeah. I really don't have a great segue. I wanted
to go into Hermani and her thoughts of that. I
think that that was a really succinct way of kind
of putting where we are and what we know about it.
You might have anything.

Speaker 3 (01:52:01):
All Throughout this chapter we start to really see the
unraveling of this closeness, particularly between Harry and Ron, because
like they've butted heads before, Goblet of Fire in particular
comes to mind, But this is a whole nother level
because they can't just go to bed, wake up, have breakfast,

(01:52:24):
deal with all their other teenage agonizing and then put
things in perspective and say they're sorry, this is real
world problems. But then there's this very brief moment at
the end of the chapter where for just a second,
they're back on the same page. Ye, And it comes

(01:52:45):
right before the biggest fight they ever have with each other,
because Hermione is back on this thing where she doesn't
want Harry using this connection with Voldemort, and Harry's like,
screw you guys, going home so that he can just
do what he wants with it, And for just a
second it feels, it feels important to me that the

(01:53:09):
chapter ends with Ron having his back one last time
before the biggest fight they ever have that we know
is coming.

Speaker 6 (01:53:17):
Yeah. So, I mean, Hermione is obviously downplaying the connection
and like, what the what the connection could mean for them?

Speaker 3 (01:53:26):
Now?

Speaker 6 (01:53:26):
Part of that is, you know, she has seen that
connection be used against them in order of the Phoenix,
And I think, yes, you're right, Yeah, And so I
think I.

Speaker 2 (01:53:38):
Felt like you were dobbling that, so I just.

Speaker 6 (01:53:40):
Had to, like, I think that she has a point
of to not look too far into her I guess,
you know, to not take it as the gospel, because
it doesn't have to be. You know, if if if
Ortimore knows that it's happening, then you know he will
use it against you.

Speaker 1 (01:53:59):
And I think that I think that as a reader,
we like we don't we no longer drink the kool
aid of Dumbledore was right about everything, but from the
perspective of this book, like, yeah, like you're the point
that you're making about how it was used against him
in the past, Like that's an excellent point. And then
the other piece of that is Dumbledore is specifically told

(01:54:21):
Harry like this is really dangerous. So it's it's not
just like Hermione. I mean to be honest, I feel
like if Dumbledore had a told Harry like, yeah, this
is good, use it, Hermione would have been on board.
But the other thing is Hermione has I mean, proof
is a stretch, but Hermione knows that Dumbledore was very
adamant about Harry learning occulimency so that Voldemort could not

(01:54:45):
get into his mind. So I definitely understand the perspective
of like, oh, you know, Hermione, you know it's annoying,
you know, we can, we can, but it's because we
know that, right, like we we know the ending and everything.
But at the end of the day, she's just trying
to do the exact same thing that Dumbledore was doing.
And I mean, and Harry, after after your godfather was.

Speaker 2 (01:55:09):
Killed, Yeah, because of this, you being willing to just
Willy and I do get that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:15):
It's it is a little bit different because it's a
completely different situation, right, Like he's watching Voldemort do things
to other people. It's not anything specifically related to Harry's people.
And I'm sure that that is Harry's that's his most
valid point, right Like, yeah, I know, but I'm not
gonna go run and get anywhere anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
I learned that lesson.

Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
But at the end of the day, it makes perfect
sense for Hermione to be like Harry, like, how many
times am I going to have to tell you to
stop doing this? Although we know that at this point
it's stupid because it doesn't matter and acclemency is not
gonna help.

Speaker 5 (01:55:43):
Him, right yeah, because he's almost like physically incapable of it.
I was thinking, it's very frustrating, I think, whether you
are Harry, whether you're Hermione or just a reader, because
you know, like he has to go on like this
emotional journey, on this mental like you know, and like
he can't make the journey that so many are asking
of him because we know he just feels too strongly
in that sort of thing. And because I mean, thank

(01:56:04):
goodness that literally there's only one time, unless I'm forgetting
that Baltimore used it against Harry in this you know,
like to put to either trick him or to see.

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
Yeah, but I feel like that one time was pretty.

Speaker 5 (01:56:17):
Yeah, don't get me it was bad, don't get me wrong.
But it does prove also because in a way it's
almost like whether he realizes it or not, Voldemort's like
tipping his hand to Harry by letting him see exactly
what he's up to. It's like if Baltimore accidentally, like
was live streaming to Harry everything he was doing, like
he just accidentally forgot to turn off FaceTime or something
like that or so, but you know, it's just.

Speaker 4 (01:56:40):
A good render.

Speaker 5 (01:56:41):
And what you're saying about the thing where they have
a fight and before they have that big fight, which
again I think it's just a good That's what you
want to do when when you up end things in
a story, is that you want to make sure things
still feel familiar so that it's not like, where did
that come from?

Speaker 4 (01:56:57):
And then because that way it makes it more impactful.

Speaker 6 (01:57:00):
Yeah, So the chapter does finally end here with with
with Ron and Harry talking about what Baltimore's up to,
what he's doing, and then I think it's a really
cool thing that Harry picks up that Baltimore is not
interested in the Twin Corps anymore. Between the two ones,

(01:57:20):
Harry said that he would that he would have been
sure that he was still after something with the Twin Corps,
but he says he it looked seems like he gave
up on him because he never asked Gogorovitch one thing
about that, So that that should have been a signal
to the reader of Baltimort's after something else. Baltimore's doing
something different than he was at the beginning of the book,
because at the beginning of this book he had Lucius's

(01:57:43):
wand and it failed, and so now he has to
move on anyway, but like this is the definitive. You
have another one maker. You're not even asking about the
Twin Corps.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
Now, Lucius, I just like saying that.

Speaker 6 (01:57:55):
Lucius, Lucius, Lucius Lucious.

Speaker 5 (01:58:00):
And then and then we end with Ron snoring as
he always just like drifting, just like drifting, Harry to
sleep it. Some thing's never, something's just never. The more
things change, you know, something's just span location. Some things
are just I would imagine snoring.

Speaker 6 (01:58:19):
Does that?

Speaker 2 (01:58:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:58:21):
All right? Good chapter?

Speaker 4 (01:58:23):
Yes, maybe not the most.

Speaker 3 (01:58:26):
Justin Avery Smith, thank you so much for being an
amazing guest on our show today. If the listeners would
like to keep up with you outside of the show,
is there anywhere that they can find you online?

Speaker 5 (01:58:43):
Yes, I am Justin Avery Smith on Instagram and threads
and Blue Sky and all of.

Speaker 4 (01:58:50):
That, all the meta ones. That's you know, the one.

Speaker 5 (01:58:52):
One of the few good things Zuckerberg did was let
me use my full name in my social media handles.

Speaker 3 (01:58:57):
But uh yeah, even a great way to put yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:59:00):
If I'm broken, clock is right twice a day. But
on the non metal ones, it's just a very Smith
because they wouldn't let me use my full name, so
I had to get creative. So I am just a
very smith on like TikTok and Twitter because screw all
on Musk and all those other ones.

Speaker 6 (01:59:20):
Nice, well, thank you for being here. Our next episode
will be the Chacker revisit for Order the Phoenix chapter
thirteen detention with Dolores Gross.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
Yeah, I know already.

Speaker 1 (01:59:34):
My brain is like I already know that would have
been a channel where they had or a chapter where
they had to bleep me out multiple times.

Speaker 6 (01:59:40):
So yeah, I'm trying to welcome Patine Patrick, trying to
make sure you're not on that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:59:48):
So funny, And don't forget to follow us on pretty
much any social media outlet at Aloha Mora m In
or on Facebook at Open the dumble Door. Also, yeah,
we we are still voting for our top moments, so
make sure that you check us out on Instagram and
see which moment is going to be the winner between

(02:00:08):
the diagon Ali shopping spree and then the reaction to
Fantastic Beast. Personally, I'm definitely diagon Ali. I'm all about
Harry being in his treat yourself phase, but you know,
we'll see. But yeah, make sure that you go to
our Instagram and vote. Also remember to subscribe, save and
share this episode with all of your friends.

Speaker 2 (02:00:28):
This has been episode seventy two of the final one hundred.

Speaker 3 (02:00:31):
I'm Bianca, I'm Josh, and I'm Jeff. Thank you for
listening to episode four hundred and seventy two of a Lokomorra.
We won't be able to go back there, Harry, not
now that Yaxley can open the dumble door.

Speaker 7 (02:01:00):
Mourra is produced by Tracy Dunstan. This episode was edited
by Katherine Lewis. Alohamra was co created by Noah Fried
and Kat Miller, and is brought to you by A
p W B d LLC.

Speaker 5 (02:01:15):
M h.

Speaker 6 (02:01:18):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (02:01:22):
This and this is also foreshattering obvious foreshattering for shattering.

Speaker 2 (02:01:31):
Oh my god,

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