GOF, 30 Revisit: No Jokes Whatsoever

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
This is episode four hundred and sixty five of Aloha
Mora for August sixteenth, twenty and twenty five. Welcome to

(00:37):
another episode of Aloha Mora, the fandom's original Harry Potter
book Club.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm Bianca Lynch, I'm Kat Miller, I'm.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Grace Candido Beacher, and our guest today is Betty Maxwell.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
Say Hi Betty, everybody, Hi, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm so excited. We're so lucky to have you. Do
you want to give us a bit of a rundown
as to like your Hogwarts house if you remember it,
your your waw on, how you got into the series,
what's your favorite parts of it?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
So? Yeah, so I am a great.

Speaker 5 (01:07):
I don't actually know what my wand is. But when
I went to Harry Potter World the.

Speaker 6 (01:11):
First time, I did pick up Serious black swand because
I love him, so I do have an in possession
of that one endearing I got into Harry Potter from
its genesis pretty much. And it's kind of funny.

Speaker 5 (01:27):
I grew up.

Speaker 6 (01:28):
Obsessed with the books until actually in my adult life,
and because I was just never a big reader growing up, but.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
Now I am, and so I.

Speaker 6 (01:37):
Decided to read them a few years ago, and it just, honestly,
it was so special getting to relive basically my childhood
through the books because there's obviously so much in the
books that's not in the movies, So it was kind
of getting a behind the scenes look to what I've
been obsessed with my whole life in the movies.

Speaker 5 (01:55):
But yeah, I grew up loving Hair.

Speaker 6 (01:57):
We were at the movie theater at midnight every time
the next one came.

Speaker 7 (02:01):
Out, so I have of that.

Speaker 6 (02:04):
And uh, I kind of grew up in the same
age as the ster, so really grew up with the series.
And yeah, it's always been a huge part of who
I am and and it's my it's my favorite series
of all times.

Speaker 7 (02:20):
So so glad to be here to think.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
About it with you guys. That's wonderful. And a serious
black fan too.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Love serious. Yeah, Well, I have a.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
New appreciation for him with the new rereads that I do,
because he's he's got a lot of humanity in there.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, I will agree to disagree on.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
That grace.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
Starting off with a bang.

Speaker 7 (02:48):
We already have our hot takes chining through.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Lord, He's not in today's chapter, thankfully, so he has
mentioned he has mentioned.

Speaker 7 (02:58):
Okay, we're going to say that, what's your house?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh do you have to ask?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Is it?

Speaker 7 (03:08):
Should I not ask?

Speaker 1 (03:10):
No?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
No, no, no, I'm saying it. It feels obvious to me.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I feel like I'm very Slytherin.

Speaker 7 (03:16):
That's where you are, resident Slytherin. Okay, okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Also, we have we have all four we have have wow,
we literally have everybody.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
We got the full se we do. I love when
that happens. That has never happened to me ever, so
I'm on true.

Speaker 7 (03:34):
I think I believe I think it happened to me either.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I think I've only been on a podcast with a
Slytherin like once, like ever, and normally I'm always out
ranked by griffinders.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
Which one of you is Hufflepuff and which one is Ravenclaw.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
I'm Hufflepuff, I'm the raven Claw.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
Okay, that's what I was gonna guess that, So I'm
pretty yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, sweet, we love an astute guest. I love it,
thank you.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
But I was nervous because I was, like I was
telling my husband, I was like, these people are going
to be so much more educated on the books than
me because I've read them.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
I was like, because I'm like, I read them through.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
I've read them through one full time as an adult,
like maybe two years ago, and obviously it was life
changing for me, and I want it.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
I'm ready to read them again.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
But but I was like, I bet these guys like
grew up reading the books, and I'm like, you know, so.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
You'd be surprised that how much like a like like
a new like a fresh set of eyes brings to
the series. Though, that's a thing.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
Yeah, good, okay, correct.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I feel like I learned it something new every time.

Speaker 5 (04:34):
Oh really?

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, Well that's why I'm excited to read them
again because I feel like, I I think it was
two years ago when I finished the series, and there's
already stuff that I'm like, what was that detail that
like tied these things together and whatever? Because it's not
in the US, and I can't I know, the movies
like Backwards and Forwards, you.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Know, iconic.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
I will say there's some fun ring theory things happening
in the chapter we're talking about today, which is a
Gobblet of Fire, chapter thirty the Penceive. The original episode
and date was episode sixty five, A Dumbler Sandwich from
February twenty fourteen with host Kat Caleb, Michael and Oh
my god, Michael and Noah. Wow twenty fourteen.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Pretty much the OG crew, the four of us. Yes,
swap out Michael for Rosie and you've got us. That's crazy.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Wait, so how long has this podcast been running? How
long have I been doing this?

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Four f twenty twelve, twenty twelve.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Yep.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Hence why we are winding down in April next year,
twenty twenty six, on our fourteenth anniversary. So wow, okay, yeah, yeah,
it's a long time to be doing one thing.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
I feel like you probably hashed out every detail of
every book at this point.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
You've been a surprised as you'd think.

Speaker 5 (05:56):
So you think so, but we could keep going.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's exactly, it's like it's yes to no. It's like, okay,
this discussion has been had. But then I don't know,
I feel like I've read so I actually read them
for the first time in twenty twenty, so I am
a little bit more like new. We're into the fantom.
I didn't grow up reading the books, and to this day,
every single reread it's always just like the tiniest thing.

Speaker 7 (06:17):
I was like that don't add up.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'm like, wait a minute, why did I never think
about this? So you just yeah, I'm just I'm excited
to see like after you continue to do like rereads
because it's it's really one of the cool things about
it is things just continue to pop up.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
It's also the magic of like speaking with like you, Betty,
like speaking with new people come to the series and
they have these new viewpoints on it. Like whenever I
come into the podcast and I speak with guests and
also the other hosts, I'm always picking up something new
because it's something from a completely different perspective. I think
it's beautiful, it's wonderful.

Speaker 5 (06:48):
Yeah, for sure. It's like every day.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
I mean even with the movies, Like every I do.
My husband he's a big Harry Potter fan too, so
like once a year we do a marathon of the movies,
and it's like even every time I watch the movies,
I pick up on something or like I see something
that I haven't seen before, and I've seen them like
a thousand times, so there's always something new.

Speaker 7 (07:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
When we are we're here for we appreciate the insights.
As we've said over and over again, you know the
show is really we're here. We're here for y'all, so
we appreciate it, and we especially appreciate our episode sponsors.
This episode in particular is sponsored by Ann Smith on Patreon.

Speaker 7 (07:29):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
For those of you who don't know our Patreon does
offer a lot of great perks, including ad free episodes,
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And if you are looking for some non monetary ways
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episode or the entire show with your friends and your

(07:55):
favorite Harry Potter communities. We appreciate the support of every
single one of our listeners, however you were able to
do so, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Thanks again to Anne.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Guys, thank you, return should do it?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Chapter revisit, Got it far?

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Chapter thirty, The pen and soive.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
All right, let's hop in, friends. I love this chapter.
Forgot how much I loved it. It's going to be
a fun one. It's a fun one.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's a good one.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Harry stands outside Dumbledore's office, not purposefully eavesdropping on Moody,
Fudge and Albis, but nonetheless he is As they discuss
Crouch's disappearance and who could be behind it. Moody, of
course knows Harry is there, so they bring him inside.
The three adults leave the room, and in true Gryffindor fashion,
Harry pokes around to see what kind of trouble he
can get into. He finds an open cabinet with a

(08:55):
shining white light, and upon investigation, falls headfirst into the basin.
He finds himself inside three courtrooms, all memories of dumbledoors,
and learns quite a bit about the past and unbeknownst
to him, in the moment the future before present day,
Dumbledore pulls him out in the two discuss what Harry witnessed,
though once again Dumbledore shuts down Harry when he brings
up his suspicions of severus snape.

Speaker 7 (09:19):
Beautifully.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh well, thank you snaps for cap Oh come on,
I don't need snaps, but thank you for helping the
humble raven claw in me. I always love when we
get to go back and look at memories. It's just
one of my I don't want to say it's like
one of my Yeah, it's one of my favorite things
about about these moments. I like going to look back

(09:42):
and getting a little bit more of the history. Yeah,
I think it's fun.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
I love like how many times the pen see comes
into play in the books versus the movies. Like that
was one thing that stood out to me so much
that I was just like soaking up every minute of
when I was reading the books, was that there's just
so much more time we get to spend in those
memories and the different memories, like even in just this

(10:09):
chapter alone, like getting to see Little Bagman's trial and
the Less Strangers, which is just not present in the
movies whatsoever, which I feel like we still get the
gist of what's going on, but in the books it's
just like you're just feeding You're getting that so many
more details from behind the scenes stuff of those memories.
So but I love how the pen Seve continues to

(10:29):
come back in later.

Speaker 7 (10:31):
Books as well.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Maybe they'll do it in the TV show. Well, and
they have to wait, I don't know, like ten years
to find out.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
I can't talk about the TV show. I can't talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, that's okay, we don't really either.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
I'm not here for it, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's okay, none of us really are so okay, your
good company.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
I'm like a bitter I'm like a bitter Potterhead, Like
I keep seeing tiktoks about it and people are like, oh,
these Potterheads are like so, you know, like bit and angry,
and I'm like, yeah, we are, Like we just want
it done right, Like can we just do it right?

Speaker 5 (11:05):
Like if you say you're going to make it like
the books, make it like the books.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, we shall see, you will see.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
We shall indeed, we shall.

Speaker 7 (11:14):
Shall see, and then we shall probably talk afterwards.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
The stures that have been coming out I have been
unimpressed with so. I mean, the little kids are adorable.
Do not get me wrong, the kids are adorable, The
kids wonderful, perfect, But like the Dursleys, they just look
like poorly dressed eighties people. I don't know whatever. Anyway,
that it's so not the topic.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
We can't even go into it because I will read
it for a while.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, we'll get our Pencie.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
If you're back into focus, remember that I love the well.
I know we're going to speak about this later. But
the magical device of the pencive. It's really well used
throughout the series. I love to go into it. I
love the history that we get, like extra canonical material
on it. I think that, like literally, the pensive is

(12:05):
one of the most interesting objects that we see in
the series.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I think it's so dope totally.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
I would love to see more of it, though, I
think that it's used to its like full extent of
what Harry needs from the series.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
I love how JK takes like one of you in
the in like your notes, I can't remember who it was,
but wrote about like the the definition of the word
like pensive and then CIB and I love how JK
does that with so many things throughout the series, like
whether it's spells or magical objects or whatever or magical creatures,

(12:39):
Like the words always like have this meaning in English
or in Latin or whatever, and it just fits so perfectly,
and like those those definitions of like penc or pensive
and civ like works so well together to create this
word penc.

Speaker 5 (12:57):
And I like how Dumbledore says it in the movie.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I like how he's like he called it like a pulsey,
Like he kind of says it like with a French
accent or something.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
I just love.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Like obviously y'all probably know, I'm like obsessed with impressions
and like the the way that words are said, and
like I appreciate how they take these words and they
make them so I don't know, like they take them
out of context, but really the words make so much
sense in our English language when you break them down.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
I just think that's excuse.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Exactly. She definitely did her research when she was writing
these and it shows in a lot of places, you know,
like that.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
So yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Grace, are you the Are you like the brown burgundy
writing in the.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's too bright?

Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I just went a little burgundy with it.

Speaker 7 (13:45):
That's fair. I was just I was over here.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Like, who is this?

Speaker 7 (13:51):
Okay? It makes sense? Okay, got it?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Thank you for yes.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
I just wanted to go in and say I love
my boy Harry coming in with the defense of Madame Maxine.
He's literally got nothing to get from it. But he's like,
that's not right.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
What are you doing? Oh?

Speaker 7 (14:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:11):
I love a character with the good moral center. Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
That was the first thing I picked up whenever I
was reading this chapter, and before I could even get
my notes and I saw you already had it, and
I just I was like, yes, we were right there,
and like you said, it's completely like well, maybe not unprovoked,
but like you said, like he doesn't really gain anything
from it.

Speaker 7 (14:30):
He's just he's just he's here for the justice.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
And it also is like that kind of Gryffindor like boldness,
right of like here you have the Minister for magic
and he's like, yeah, by the way, I don't I don't.

Speaker 7 (14:43):
Think it's, Madam Maxine.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I'm gonna I'm gonna just throw that out there without
you know, you didn't ask me, but here it is.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
I just I also love the I love the description
of Dumbledore's eyes twinkling. It's it's just very fun. That's
like that little detail of like when everyone turns away
and he's like, oh you got me, you got me
when no one else got I know, you got me.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Through and through mm hmm yeah, man, whichever, I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, yeah, either one. Why do you think it is
that Fudge is sort of pushing Madam maxim though? Do
you think it's because of the Carcaroff connection? Is it?

Speaker 3 (15:20):
I mean because of the prejudice, right, yeah? I mean yeah,
that's at least what the story is leading you to believe,
but it could be Yeah, what what is the Carkaroff
connection though.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Just because like he's a death theater and or former
death theater however you want to. But they never leaved
him headmaster of a school somehow, And I think he's Yeah,
I think he's just projecting those onto her.

Speaker 7 (15:50):
Yeah, she's also a scapegoat.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
I mean totally.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
He's grasping to me, like he's just grasping at anything.

Speaker 7 (16:00):
It's like you're circling the room.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Aha, Like that's, oh, look a giant or a half giant,
my bad. Like that's kind of the vibe that I
was getting, honestly.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yeah, I think it's also just like Budges like a
foreshadowing of his growing paranoia of what's happening in this
book but in the next book, especially when he's just
so paranoid about Voldemort's returning and Dumbledore and then the
army and the next like the Dumbledore's Army and everything.

(16:31):
Like I think that he already is like turning this
her being a half giant or whatever, and him being
paranoid about that connection and the political aspect that comes
into play in the next book. This is just kind
of like a taste of that as well.

Speaker 7 (16:51):
Well.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I was going to ask, I know we haven't met
her yet, but do you think maybe like an off
screen Umbrage is whispering a little bit in his ear already,
you know. I mean, who's to say that's not yeppening.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I never thought about that, but I mean, yeah, I
could see it for sure. I mean because based on
the way she enters in book five, like you can
tell like they've been I'm air quoting for those who
can't see the video close for some time, right, Like
we're not introduced to her until book five, but obviously
her and Fudge have been close for a while, so

(17:26):
I could I could see that.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, I could see that too. That's actually brilliant.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, oh brilliant. Yeah. I've had snaps and the uh.
The other thing in this moment I wanted to point
out is that Harry specifically says that like all the
portraits were sleeping, and it makes me laugh so hard
now knowing that in future books they like Harry walks

(17:51):
up and he can hear Dumbledore talking to a bunch
of people, and then all the portraits are pretending to
be sleeping. Could you know that they're sitting there listening? Yeah,
so what's going on? I love and I just I
just love those little I just love those little mentions,
that's all.

Speaker 5 (18:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
I feel like Dumbledore's office is always just I mean,
you just want to go, you know, it's kind of
like the Burrow, like I mean, and obviously in general
you want to go to Hogwarts, but I feel like, specifically,
as someone was like, if you could go to Hogwarts
and you could only choose one place, and that would
be hard, let's be honest.

Speaker 7 (18:21):
I mean because the Black Squid, I mean, I got
to see that.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Although I'm frightened, but I just feel like Dumbledore's office,
I feel like it's it's just always a really cool place.
And then even though in real life I hate birds, Fox,
it's just, oh my god, just beautiful. But it did
have me thinking, So Harry's like, oh, you know, high Fox,
and then he just gives Harry a like benign look,

(18:46):
and I'm like, what does does Fox actually have? Like Okay,
I know, I know he has emotions, right because obviously,
like after Dumbledore passed and you know, the sad song,
But like I'm trying to envision Fox as like a pet,
and I'm trying to look at it from the perspective.

Speaker 7 (19:02):
Of, you know, it's your pet. So in theory, your
pet will.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Like they'll they'll recognize their name. And I'm most I'm
clearly mostly talking about dogs. Okay, let me put that
out there as well. But you know, they will kind
of recognize their name and they kind of look like
happy to see you. But it just seems like Fox
is just very much always a just like professional mode.

Speaker 7 (19:23):
Like yes you are okay.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
So I guess my question is, like, does Fox actually
show emotion outside of healing tears and whenever Thumbledore passes,
or do we think that he's always just this like
he's always got the game face on.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Well, I wonder if I wonder if folks like Okay,
First of all, the name like only sounds good when
you say it with the British accent.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
I feel so weird saying it like fox like.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
And then when you hear them six but like that's
how you would say it, like without the British accent,
it's fox.

Speaker 7 (19:57):
Like, that's it.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
But but when they say it's like folk like, it
just sounds so much better. I always think about that.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
But yeah, so when Fox does his healing tears.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
What if you want?

Speaker 7 (20:12):
Fox?

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Now, I'm not going to be obnoxious. I'm not going
to do impressions the whole time.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
We have a voice actor on the show and he
did voices all the time, so this would be kind
of a treat. So feel free, feel free.

Speaker 5 (20:25):
I'm sure it will come up at some point.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
But yeah, when Fox is like doing his whole healing
tears thing, like, is that coming from a place of
like he's sad?

Speaker 5 (20:36):
Like his emotion like because you're hurt.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
So can he Like obviously his healing tears are only
used when someone's in like a hurt situation, So like
maybe he actually feels the emotion of like sadness for
the person and then that's what triggers the tears. Like
so yeah, I think that you could argue that he
feels emotion.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
I was I was going to say that, after like
dying and being born so many times, you might just
be over it. Maybe he's just over it and he's like, Okay,
what do you what do you want? Like, yeah, here's
some tears, ago leave me alone, bro, Like for I

(21:19):
die in three days, do I really have to put
up with this BS.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Today, Like you know what I mean, I'm gonna be
I'm gonna emilate.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
Do we know how long they actually live like before
they die burst into flames.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
I think hundreds of years, like hundreds and hundreds of years.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
So the fact that Harry sees Fox burst into flames
is like a total like rarity that he gets to
witness that if he's been a life for like hundreds
of years. I mean, like, but it seems like Dumbledore
is probably but I mean I guess Dumbledore's for one
hundred years old, so.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Maybe in the books it's not hundreds, but I mean, regardless,
I don't think it happens like super often.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
It seems like it would be super like special than
that Harry gets to like actually witness him on a
burning day.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah. A quick Google search told me five hundred to
fourteen hundred years, but that was AI and I don't
trust it, But five hundred was the number that was
sticking out to me for some reason before I googled it.
So I'm gonna say probably at least five hundred years.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
I'm not even gonna pretend like I might know.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
I just don't think it applies here because whenever Dumbledore
in like in I believe it was booked two and
he was just like, oh, you know, sorry, you had
to see him on like a burning day. He just
made it seem like he's seen that happened to Fox
over in a year. So I think like in like
outside of the books, like five hundred might be accurate,
but I don't. In the books, I feel like it's

(22:47):
implied that it happens a lot more often. But I
absolutely just love this explanation of like Fox's board like that,
it's hilarious.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
He's just over the wholeiousness of all opath no emotion.

Speaker 7 (23:05):
At this point.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Foxes I feel like Fox is the the absentee, like
uh like organizer HR department for Dumbledore. Fox is the
one that's giving the okay for like all these horrible
teachers that.

Speaker 7 (23:17):
He's playing in.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
I was like, oh, they're fine, they're fine, everyone will
be fine. I've got healing too.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah fine, it's Fox, Like is he like a consultant
for Dumble?

Speaker 7 (23:30):
This is wow? All right? Fox is just like the
maybe he's like the.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
What is the expression? The jack of all trades? And
we just we just didn't know we fumbled.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
We fumbled the bat.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
I just love thinking that he's so apathetic. I'm I'm
gonna hold that from now on. This is like Fox
is just apathetic. And that's why.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's just like that's my explanation and I'm sticking to it.

Speaker 7 (23:51):
I'm here for it.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
There's a description of the silver white glow that Harry
is like seeing from the pens out of the cabinet,
and I wondered if that silver white glow comes up
quite a few times in the novels, and I'm sort
of wondering if maybe it's a hint at the patronis
in the previous book and maybe the one coming up
in Hallows. So like Harry seeing prongs and everything in

(24:17):
Prisoner and then when he's going to see Snape's dough
in Hello, sort of connecting that this white light is
items you can trust, this is a good thing, don't
be afraid of it, all of that, because you know symbolism.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
I can see that, I think, so I could definitely
see that. Well. I will say that usually when like
the purest form of like creation happens, there's.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Usually like gold involved with it.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
So I don't know if there's some sort of alchemical
comparison happening here with these two different metals being referenced.
But I love that idea of like white light and
silver light sort of like implying like good memories and
good things. I think gold implies creation or protection something
like that.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
We're like hyping these things up to be like, yeah,
these are good things. That he falls in and there's
like dementors and a chair with like chains, and it's like,
I'm like MBA started off with like the white light,
but that's not.

Speaker 7 (25:18):
Where it ended.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
I like this chapter a lot. I will say it
haunts me. This chapter haunts me a lot. It's it's crazy, terrifying.
So let's let's hop in. Let's hop into the penn Seve.
We've got three different trials that that Harry sees with Dumbledore.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Before he gets in, there's this quote says he wanted
to touch it to find out what it felt like,
but nearly four years experience of the magical world told
him that sticking his hand into a bowl full of
some unknown substance was a very stupid thing to do.
I read that and I paused, and I thought to myself, Okay, yet,
you're gonna do exactly that in like two books. You're

(25:56):
gonna like stick your hand into something an unknown substance
created by Lord Boltemore, nonetheless, and I just found it ironic.
And since that was book six and this was books four,
I was trying really, really really hard to see if
there was an instance that it happened in book two,
but I couldn't come up with one. The poly juice
maybe was the closest thing, but.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
No, the diary, but that's not like an unknown substance.
I'm talking like, I'm talking like a liquid.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
But well, I mean when they plunged down the tube,
there's a lot of substances there.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Dude, it's true. Though, No, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
You're right, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
I feel like, though, that's just like who even though
he is, you know, he's knowledgeable of the magical world now,
like it's just like this innocent nod to like who
Harry is and he's curious and he's a gryffindor so
like that's just part of it, and like he is
one of the you know, he's like a new but

(26:59):
you know, in the beginning when coming into the whole
magical world and it's just like so new to him.
So I feel like there's just always that little piece
of him that sticks with him throughout the entire series
that's just kind of separates him from everybody else who's
kind of brought up in the magical world, or at
least like even though Hermione wasn't, like she's still still
so knowledgeable about it. Harry just has this innocence about

(27:21):
him that you see throughout the entire series of just
like oh, I got to touch it, you know, or
like whatever, like this could be really bad for me,
but curiosity takes over or just whatever.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
Yeah, agreed, and I love that about him.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, it's being curious is something a lot of people
lose as they get older. I'm sure Harry is only
a teenager here, but I feel like if people in
general are just a little bit more curious in life,
asking a few more questions and just like gaining a
little more knowledge, we might be a little better as
a society. Maybe that's too uh deep for this moment,
but I still think it's true. I still think it's true.

(27:59):
I mentioned the ring composition thing, and there was one
here that I did actually get and this is the
second time that we see Harry who will be in
a space watching memories where no one can hear him
or see him. This happens in books two, four, and
six Friends. In Book two of course is in the Diary,
and Book four and Book six are both in the Pencive.

(28:19):
This time Harry was uninvited, and he will be invited
in book six, which is really interesting. And I actually
pulled our throwback comment for this episode from our friend
Olivia Underwood from the original episode, as Grace mentioned with
TRES episode sixty eight, and it's sort of on this
subject as well as the connection between like Dumbledore the Pencive,

(28:41):
Voldemore and the Diary. I thought it was really interesting,
she says. I agree. Actually this was in response to
a conversation, of course, they were having on the original
episode about the connection of Dumbledore in his Pencive and
Valdemore in the Diary. Dumbledore and Voldemore both have common weaknesses,
and that's why Dumbledore could degree anticipate Voldemor's actions and

(29:02):
therefore deduce a connection between Voldemor and Harry, Unlike Harry,
who merely has a hore crux within him. Dumbledore actually
has characteristics similar to Voldemore. That's why I feel his
affiliation with Grindewald was believable. They all suffer from the
temptation of the past, nostalgia, and power, all of which
lead to their individual downfalls. The Penceieve and the Diary

(29:24):
symbolize all these things, but it's the ring which is
the final nail in the coffin for them. So to speak.
The Penzieve, book and Rang are ways of reliving the
past in the purest way because they haven't been distorted.
And I think for Dumbledore and Voldemore, these are guilty pleasures.
While Voldemore relishes in it, trying to become what he
once was, Dumbledore tries to deny it constantly, although as

(29:44):
we know, he both fails and succeeds in this. So
I loved I loved that she was really making that
connection between how these two characters look differently at the past,
and clearly it's very relevant to this chapter. And I

(30:06):
just love our I just love our commenters. I mean
that comment is twelve eleven something years old now. Shout
out to Olivia, very astute.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Love the thought process here.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I don't know if I quite agree that Tom relishes
his past. He's usually working towards the future. He's usually
trying to build towards having more power. So I don't
quite know what that's referring to, but I think that
there's definitely a lot of there's a lot of value
in saying that Dumbledore is trying not even to deny it,

(30:43):
but to avoid it in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, a lot of these objects.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
And by the way, the diary always amazes me because
of its ability to sort of like replicate the abilities
of the pen sive, and it makes me wonder, like
when I started doing programming recently, I tried to do
a bunch of different experiments, and a lot of my
programmer friends, like they knew of much easier ways of

(31:08):
doing the things that I was trying to do. I
swear this will come back around, I promise. I feel
almost like the Diary is a response to a necessity
to store memories. And Tom didn't know there was such
a thing as a pensive because he just wasn't from
this world, so he just made it himself. So no
one told him this existed, So he made it so

(31:29):
like that's the thing with a lot of new programmers,
is that they'll not know that something already exists, so they'll.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Make it from a scratch.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
I feel like this is like his response to it,
which was very fun. But I love the capabilities of
the diary and how it reflects the pensive and the Ring.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
God.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
I wish we saw more of the Ring. I know,
I wish it hadn't been destroyed before we got to
see it.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, I would assume that Olivia, when she's talking about
Voldemort relishing the past, I think she probably means his
love of all things that are anciently powerful. Anciently you
know what I mean, So like learning about the history
of the Founders and of Hogwarts and of the magic

(32:11):
and all of that's not necessarily his own personal past,
but sort of the past of magic, and how Dumbledore
just sort of, you know, tries to forget about all that,
and Voldemort somehow seems to be a little bit more
of a master of it. Maybe I'm I'm speaking on
half of of Olivia, so I may be wrong.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Well, that's that's a great interpretation of it.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
I will say.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think in a certain sense he has an appreciation
for these objects because they hold power to him and
they hold power in the eyes of others. I feel like,
in a sense, even Dumbledore might have an appreciation for
something like Gryffindor's sword or that's something that has like
a storied past to the school.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Well, I mean the ring he does try to he
does put it on, it does kill his hand, So.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, I would have killed him if Snape didn't beat
him to it.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
But I think for Voldemort, though, it's more of like
an obsession with objects because of the whole Horkruks situation,
rather than like an appreciation or like a fascination or whatever.
Like I think it's more like he's obsessed with these
magical objects and finding just the right one to put
a piece of his soul into, whereas with the sort

(33:25):
of Gryffindor or something like that, with Dumbledore, it's more
of like an appreciation of the significance of this object
or whatever, rather than this like, oh, this is perfect
for me to murder someone and put me inside it.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Right right, Yeah, there's a there's a very distinct difference
between the two characters.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I definitely understand that. But well, I get what we're going.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
With here, because like inserting yourself into the story is
very different than appreciating the history of it. Those are
two very different ways of appreciating history.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
And that's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I think that those two characters are really beautifully frustrated.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well let's jump into the Uh, well, we're already in
the pantry, big guys. How many times can we say,
let's yes, But let's look at the first memory that
Harry sees.

Speaker 7 (34:09):
Here, cockerroth Man. First thing that came up for me
two hundred people.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
First of all, actually, the first thing that came up
for me was two hundred people. That is a lot
of people. I mean, now, I have never well maybe
I have been in court. I've never been in a
court room where there were even one hundred people. I
don't even think I've been in a court roo where
they were fifty people. Fifty cool one hundred. You can
maybe convince me who are these two hundred people? Why

(34:37):
are there two hundred people in this courtroom? And how
are they not impacted by the dementors.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
I think that the I mean, with the ministry being
in control of the dementors, they probably are able to
you know, like control when they or like have some
sort of barrier between them and the people that they
can release in a moment's notice if they need them
to come restraight a death eater or whatever.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
But like, I feel like there must.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Be some sort of power over the dementors for when
they can affect people and when their power is diminished.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah. I mean, I feel like you can be in
a room with a dementor as long as it's not
trying to suck out your soul and you'd be okay, right,
or it might be like.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
No, I don't see, I don't think so. Yeah, so Grace,
go ahead, because I was gonna I was gonna bring
that up about about book seven, but go ahead.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, she had her cat walking around, Like maybe they
just have some kind of protection happening for the actual audience,
but because they only want karker Off to feel like craps. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
But I think in book seven, I think the dementors
were like hyped up. I think they were like.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Like those are happy toms, right exactly.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
They're they're like well fed, Yeah they are well fed,
they are still very hungry. And I think that they
were like they were Jones, Yeah, they were they were
partying yeah, so I think, you know, I think the
emotions of the dementors maybe plays into this a little here,

(36:08):
just a little bit, like you know.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
That sort of like humanizes them in a weird way though, right, gross,
But yeah, like what how how far does that go?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I know, we'd have to ask Jim.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I honestly think that it's I honestly think that it's plot,
to be honest, because one of the biggest issues that
I've always had with Dementors, with the way that they're written,
is that there's some line I want to say. I
want to say it's book three whenever Lupin is teaching
Harry and he says something along the lines of, oh, yeah, here,
some something is said that's like, here is one way

(36:41):
or a way to get rid of dementors, but we
never hear about any other way to get rid of
them outside and get rid of is a stretch, right,
but we'll just say that we never ever hear any
other way outside of.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
Patronises, thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
I was like it was going to get there eventually,
every care of like anything outside of patronass And so then,
based on what we've seen in the books, to me,
a dementor actually.

Speaker 7 (37:08):
Doesn't need to be hyped up.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I feel like the way that this presented to us
is once their presence is there, you feel it like
they don't necessarily need they don't have like.

Speaker 7 (37:16):
A I mean, we know they don't have a button.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
But I just mean like, based on what based on
what we've been told, it's like where there are emotions
and humans, that's where they thrive.

Speaker 7 (37:25):
That's all they need.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
They just need there to be happiness or joy or
a certain level of peace to suck out of the room.
And then, like I said, you've got two hundred people
in here, as far as we see, we don't see
a patronus. So in my mind, I'm like, that doesn't
make sense. And then going back to you know, deathly
hollows where where umbriches in the courtroom, and she specifically

(37:47):
did have her patronas there, So I personally just think
it's a plot hole. But I was curious if anyone
else was wondering.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
Well, it just makes me think, like I agree, like
where they specifically mentioned like her patronas is like chillin
and sending up vibes up to the the dementors to
keep them at bay or whatever. But like I said, like,
I feel like we hear multiple times that the Ministry
controls the Dementors.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
Like we don't really know.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
They don't really ever explain exactly like how what that
control consists of, like control them, like can send them
after people? Yes, but maybe there's another extent, Like there's
an extent maybe to their control of the Dementors and
like how much the Dementors obey the Ministry and stuff.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
Like that, Like I don't know if that makes sense, but.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Maybe they're like it's just not explained, Like there are
other like things we mentioned earlier, they just aren't fully
vetted out, but we can just there are little mentions
of things like, oh, the Dementors are under the control
of the Ministry, Like how far does that control go?
Like I guess that's just something that's not fully explained.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
It's like a marriage of convenience.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think about the the Dementor entering the train cabin
in Prisoner and the Dementor like opens the door. I'm
trying to remember book and not movie because this movie
moment is so strong, But the Dementor like opens the door, right,

(39:27):
does that happen in the book? Regardless? And nobody in
the cabin is affected until it like starts sucking. Right
Is that how it happens in the book, or am
I just remembering the movie.

Speaker 7 (39:42):
I don't even I don't even think they started.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
I don't at first, I don't even want to use
the terminology started sucking.

Speaker 7 (39:47):
But I don't think. I just don't even let me
just start there.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
But also I don't se I just don't. I no,
Like on the train, it was everyone, everyone was impacted differently,
but even like Ron and Hermione were like, oh.

Speaker 7 (40:06):
Yeah, well, you know, like I got all cold.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
The point is we have all this evidence in the
book that like the mentor's presence, Okay, you're cold, you
feel sad, all these things, and you got this room
with two hundred people and like, no.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
One they're cold.

Speaker 5 (40:20):
They were cold. They might have been cold and sad.

Speaker 7 (40:24):
Okay, okay to shame to Shae.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
We do not have evidence that these people are not affected.

Speaker 7 (40:30):
I just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
I just don't like that these things don't add up
the way I want them to. That's all we can
move on. There's not going to be a perfect answer
to this. I recognize it.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
No, I agree, and not to go backwards obviously, but
when you mentioned the dementor on the train, it also
makes me curious that like why, like this is so off,
but like why are why is nobody else affected as
badly as Harry is on the train? Like why are
there no other instances of kids being like passing out

(41:01):
or whatever or being targeted by a dementor that like
you're telling me no other kid on that train has
any kind of trauma like in their life that specifically
like attracts Like what about Neville, you know what I mean,
like and his parents and like like that's just one example,
but like you're telling me none of these kids, with
their parents and like the dark Arts and like everything

(41:22):
dark magic, that none of them have any trauma in
their life that would specifically attract a dementor. Like I
wish that we would have heard like and I guess
it's just all about putting the spotlight on Harry.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
And yeah, it's all about Harry.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
I get that, but I think it would have been
it would have filled out the story and the impact
of the dementors a little more if we would have heard, like, oh,
this kid whose parents died and you know, the battle
of you know, against Volkart or whatever he was he
passed out too or she you know something, you know
what I mean, Like, I just thought that was interesting.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, No, I agree, And I also once again think
that it's just I do think it's blocked, because.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Yeah, it just had to be more focused on.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, because Harry doesn't he doesn't even remember his parents dying,
so it would make exactly there are no other.

Speaker 7 (42:08):
Students in all those years.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
Yeah, No, I agree, right, because he doesn't even see
the festials until Serious dies, so it's like he doesn't
remember his parents dying.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, non sequitor. Bianca. You might not have been in
this episode, but recently a few episodes ago. I don't
exactly remember that I read out. I mentioned a theory
that I had heard recently that in Prisoner when Harry

(42:41):
here's the dementors, he's that memory that is being recalled
is Voldemore's memory, not Harry's. Ah, isn't that brilliant here's
Lily and James being killed, that it's Baltimore's memory not Harry's.

Speaker 5 (43:00):
That makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
He sees it in full and book seven.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Ah, so good.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Because even like the way they show it in the
movies they show like baby Harry, so it's like Boldemore
seeing him so good, not through Harry's eyes always.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Because it's like Boldemort's because okay, because I was about
to say but that doesn't make any sense because I
want to be a horror but I'm like, yes they would,
because that's when Baltimore died.

Speaker 7 (43:23):
Okay, got it? Okay, Yeah, it circled back for me. Wow,
that's so much. That's genius.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
See new theories. I had never heard that one in
my twenty years of fandom, So.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
That's so In fact, Harry actually really has no need
to be afraid.

Speaker 5 (43:39):
He's like, I don't know why these dementors always target me.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Like, wow, yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
We'll bring it back to Tom and his death theaters.
Here Cargarov is pointing out just so many He's just
singing like a canary here in this coal mine that
wants to kill him. And look, we understand why. It's
Karkaroff's extra information that he gives reveals a lot about
how the Death Eater factions work, and that like Tom's

(44:09):
the only one that knows everyone, they all kind of know,
like hit or miss who these people are a lot
of them just keep theirs mask on all times, which
means that there was a huge shift with the main
circle actually unmasking when Tom took over in book seven.
So very interesting. But he points out a bunch of

(44:31):
different people. He points out a lot of names have
become very important. Later, Delaha of Rossier, Travers, Mulsiver Rookwood
revealed he's working in the Department of Mysteries.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
I'd forgotten that detail.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
That's why I knew he was working in the Ministry.
I didn't know it was the Department of Ministry or Mysteries.
And then Snape. Of course, we could talk about Snape forever.
And it's just like having this like little introduction from
these little these little seeds planted now was very fun
because you're like, oh, that's the guy that's going to

(45:03):
like attack them later with like two other people that
will also learn typically work together. And if you guys
want more information on the death the we don't have
to go into this here because we did monster episodes
on them ages ago, so go look those up. But
those are all the all the the death eaders that
get revealed through carker Off.

Speaker 7 (45:22):
Oh Grace you were did you do like the the
Death Theater episode or two have.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Been very part of it for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
I listened to those fairly recently. A little yeah fun. Yeah, yeah, no,
they really are.

Speaker 7 (45:34):
I mean just yeah, y'all were genius. The things that
y'all were like pulling out.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
The sliding Avery scale of effectiveness was very fun.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
I remember doing that.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, we have some we're going to be pulling some
top moments. Listeners, just a little quick plug here. We're
gonna be pulling some top moments soon. And it does
include those Death Theater episodes, so definitely go back and
listen to those.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Nice A few episodes ago we were talking about because
we were it was chapter the chapter where Harry goes
for his trial his hearing in the next book, and
we were talking about how the book, how the book
how the chair knows when or when not to bind somebody,

(46:19):
because Harry sits down in that moment and the like
the chains sort of clink like, oh, maybe they're going
to bind him, and then we see the chair actually
bind karkaroff here. So I wanted to bring it back
up since none of you folks were on that episode.
And the quote says, even as Harry watched the chains
on the arms of the chair glowed suddenly gold and
snaked their way up Karkaroff's arms, binding him there. And

(46:43):
I wondered if you all had any thoughts about how
that chair knows when or when not to bind somebody,
And it's okay if you don't.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
What if it only binds people who were already in azkaban,
like people who were because you know, like Krgarov was
already locked up, So maybe it's like it's only for
the people who have already been proven guilty. Or I mean,
my other thought would be there actually is someone like
they they they don't know there is somewhere there's someone

(47:16):
who actually has the charm. Yeah, and they're they're manipulating it.
Those would be my two guesses.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah, I believe that's the conclusion we came to on
that last episode. And we were thinking that maybe it
was like Umbrage or Percy who was like wanting to
do it and then decided not to do it because
you know, I think that.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Maybe it's a public opinion thing too. Maybe it's how
much anger and hatred is searing through that auditorium at
any given time. Maybe it's sort of reacting to that
that's cool.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Or the crime or what the or what they're being
accused of. Right, if it's like embezzlement, maybe it's like yeah,
but I mean, you.

Speaker 7 (47:54):
Know, torture or murder. Well, yeah, we gotta luck you down.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna have commentary about
the Wizarding World and murder, but we won't go there.
So in that moment when the Dementors are like taking
Carker off in and then they're just around, Moody makes
a comment about like, oh, they've got dementors here. You know,
I forget exactly what he says, and Dumbledore is like, ough,

(48:20):
I hate dementors. He doesn't say that, but that's the implication.
And I'm wondering where do you all stand with dementors?
Do you think that they are a positive contribution to society?
Do they actually help? Are they more of a hindrance?
Would you side with Moody or Dumbledore here? What do
you think if you were a wizard in that world?

Speaker 7 (48:42):
I'm with Dumbledore. Yeah, I'm with double Doore.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
That's despicable also very lazy in my opinion, like come on.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
And they're just not They're just not easy, Like they're
not I mean, Dumbledore says himself.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
Like I can't remember in which book, but that the Dementors.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
Maybe maybe it is book three in Prisoner, because that's
when we really first see the Dementors and they're very
active and they're like around hogwarts and stuff, and he's
like they can be unpredictable, Like they can be they
can do things on their own, like even though they
are under the control quotes of the Ministry, like they
still basically do whatever they want. And they're very dangerous,

(49:23):
like don't he Yeah, this is what he says, like,
don't give them reason to harm you. So it's like
even though they're not after you, they'll still come after
you and potentially stuck out your soul. So I'd say
that's a little reckless, especially to have a school with kids.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, because what are you gonna do when it happens.
You can't make them throw your soul back up, like
we need that back. Like you can't just go like
give a dementor or the him lik and be like, nah,
that was the wrong guy giving.

Speaker 5 (49:51):
You my soul back up.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, there's no Oh my god, I love urgate that
last soul sir, you you're supposed to get his brother.
There's no control here, there's Yeah, Like I said, it's
just it's just lazy. And I mean you think about
like and I will not pretend to know the ins
and outs of what prisons look like. I did recently

(50:14):
finish prison break, so I feel like that's what's very
fresh in my mind right now. But point being is
that if you are, you know, training, what are they
called not parole officers? Yeah, I have no words today?
What are they called the corrections officers?

Speaker 7 (50:30):
CEO's right, I don't have either.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Podcast, Okay, listen, there's someone there's a listener out there
somewhere that's like Bianca does, but.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
It's send us words please.

Speaker 7 (50:42):
Right exactly. I need a pen set of my own.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Anyways, The point I'm really taking a long time to
make is that I think it's lazy to just get
some dementors and be like, here, do your thing. Like
I don't feel like there's actually there's not any actual training.
There is no obviously, there's no proof that these things
are actually under your control. It's just a matter of
all we have to do is let them stand there
and we don't have to worry about any of these

(51:11):
prisoners breaking out, And that's just it's lazy, and it's
just it's lazy and it's horrible, Like you don't get
to decide that people don't the people aren't entitled to
their own happy memories anymore.

Speaker 7 (51:22):
Like that's another level of evil in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
Yeah, And I think it makes the bad people more
bad because it's like you're sucking out any sort of
happiness or any sort of maybe memory they can recall
on for redemption of their own lives because you're sucking
out their happiness. And it also kind of recalls back
to what I was saying earlier about the kids, like
how are there no other kids on the train with trauma?

(51:47):
Like if these things are just haunting a school, like
there are definitely kids there with trauma that the dementors
could accidentally target. They're like first year students or whatever,
you know, and then they're just sucking out the happiness
of these little kids, these innocent kids.

Speaker 5 (52:01):
But also like what are the orders for if not
to catch dark wizards?

Speaker 4 (52:07):
Like why do we need the dementors if we have
wizards who are specifically like trained to go after people
that the dementors are going after. Like I feel like that,
Like you said, Bianca, it's like it's lazy, Like we
just have these really bad creatures and we're like, how
can we use these guys, Like let's make them go
out and catch bad guys. But really they they're not
very good at it. It seems they keep targeting the

(52:29):
wrong people.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, I've always sort of equated dementors with torture honestly,
like they're they're not there. I mean, yes, they are
quote unquote there to keep the prisoners in prison, but
they are really there to torture the prisoners that are
in prison. And so yeah, I'd be with Dumbledore on this.

(52:50):
I'm not down with torture. That's not cool.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
I'm in the same way. I feel like it's weird
that I agree with everyone, but I'm the same way
on this. I think that the reason for having dementors
is not because then this is the second time we're
going to encounter this, along with the Ministry as well
as the death eaters. The reason for having dementtors is
not for their effectiveness. It's for the cruelty. It's for
the point of the cruelty. So the threat of them

(53:16):
and the effectiveness of them are enough to supposed to
be enough to keep people from retaliating against the government,
but it doesn't quite work. And also it keeps people
from any sort of redemptive process. So yeah, I agree
with you, guys.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Great, and it's stupid. You cannot control them.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Literally, Tom gets out from the cauldron, is like, we're
going to get.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Our buddies back.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Don't worry, guys, I've got this right. He gets right
out of the cauldron and starts gathering up the forces
again immediately.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
That's just what the evil guys do. Grace, we know
this by now, but I'm good at it. I know
you brought up Snape, and it just wouldn't be an
episode of this podcast or a chapter of these books
if Snape wasn't there. I know, so I know. I'm
sorry we have to just for a few minutes. But
when Kharkaroff yells out Snape's name, it's like Snape sever

(54:07):
as Snape, and then Crouch replies, Snape has been cleared
by this council. He has been vouched for by Elvis Dumbledore. No,
shouted Carkaroff, straining at the change, blah, blah blah. I
assure you sever A Snape is a death theater, and
then it says Dumbledore had gotten to his feet. I
have given evidence already on this matter. Sever A Snape
was indeed a death theater. However, he rejoined our dark

(54:28):
side before Sorry, he rejoined our side before Lord world
Wor's downfall and turns by for us at grace personal risk.
He is now no more a death theater than I am.
And I'm curious who did he give evidence to and
what evidence did he.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Give Dumbledore's evidence of don't worry about it?

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I got that, yeah about it?

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Right?

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Do you think it was Do you think it was
like his memory, like just an edited version of his
memory of Snape, like bowing to turn away from Voldemort?
Like was it a Pencie thing like.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
That would be interesting and it would fit with the
theme of the chapter.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
I think it was probably just the bit where he
reveals the information, right, He's like.

Speaker 7 (55:13):
That's what I was going to say, Yeah, yeah, I
was going to say.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I would assume that it's the information that he was
able to provide to Love.

Speaker 7 (55:22):
There's your other question, who didn't even pride this information?

Speaker 2 (55:24):
What information? But wait, So what information are you talking about?
Because it sure is not the prophecy because nobody knows
about that. It's not Snape vowing to protect Lily or
do anything because of Lily, So, like, what is it?

Speaker 3 (55:39):
I thought it was just him saying something like he's
going to go after the Potters and make sure they're
protected something like that.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Maybe that was.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Part of I'm sorry, I'm not completely I don't know
their conversation front to back like I do some other ones.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
You're a terrible reader, terrible fan.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
I know, I know, I know, horrendous.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
So Snape didn't revert until after Valdemore found out about
the prophecy?

Speaker 7 (56:01):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (56:03):
Like he was fooled that.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, yea, yeah, wow it was. Actually that's a really.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Good question because there wasn't even that much time that
there had that much time hadn't even passed.

Speaker 7 (56:13):
M hm huh wow. Yeah. I don't know. That's that's
giving plot hole to me, I mean, because what information
was there?

Speaker 1 (56:24):
I mean, okay, he told Baltimore found out about the prophecy.
Do we actually know how much time passed from when
Baltimore found out about the prophecy to when he went
to coll the Potters.

Speaker 7 (56:34):
Do we have any idea how much time is there?
Or no?

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yeah, hang on, let me bring up the timeline.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
I mean, I had to be at least a little
bit of time because he had to figure out who
the prophecy was referring to or who he thought it was.

Speaker 8 (56:47):
He.

Speaker 7 (56:47):
But even with that, he kind of just chose.

Speaker 9 (56:49):
He didn't even he just chows Harry He I mean
for him to figure out, like there wasn't even any
daya to figure out, because we learned that it literally
could have been Harry or Neville.

Speaker 7 (57:00):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Let's see, all right, So all of these are just
about the meeting at the Hogshead. I'm looking on I'm
looking on the calendar. Um, these are all Tilani's second. No,
that's in June. Why are none of them? Why is

(57:23):
none of this here? Maybe? Is it Snape? Snape? Here's
dang Grace. Did you say you're pulling up the timeline too?

Speaker 3 (57:32):
I'm pulling Okay, I'm pulling up the timeline for the tombook.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
I'm seeing if I have a written down here, Oh,
I'll look it up. Hang on timeline, because I can't
I definitely can't think of.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Okay, so it's nineteen eighty where he overhears the prophecy
and reports back to town. So there's there's a point
between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one where Snape has
time to be feeding information to Dumbledore.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
When when in eighty do we know? Oh really, let
me look that up. No, the lexicon doesn't have a date.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Hot, damn.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Lexicon doesn't have a date, although sometime in that year,
although Dumbledore was there interviewing Trelawney, so it had to
be summer because why would he be interviewing in the
middle of the school year.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
And then so maybe two months or so.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Well, no, if that was nineteen eighty, Oh yeah, you're right,
because wait no.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Yeah, Chad GBT says it was one to one and
a half years between Voldemort hearing the prophecy, likely late
mid to late nineteen eighty to killing the Potters October thirty, verse.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Nineteen eighty one, So it might be correct.

Speaker 7 (58:42):
For once.

Speaker 5 (58:44):
It sounds good.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
I mean I read the description and basically it's like
the way it's laying everything.

Speaker 5 (58:49):
Out looks accurate, Like, yeah, no, that sounds right. Sybil
first gives the policy and whatever.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
So what happens. So when is Kharkaroff's trial was.

Speaker 7 (59:00):
After the fall of Voldemort?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Right, it must be after nineteen eighty one. Yeah, right,
So the original question, I feel my brain spinning, are
trying to be the original question is what evidence did
Snape or what evidence did Dumbledore give to prove that
Snape had become basically a Triple agent?

Speaker 2 (59:24):
And who did he give it to? So I think
we're just trying to figure out how long of a
time between Snape turning and Dumbledore and this moment, you know,
he gave evidence somewhere in between there what could have happened?

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Yeah. I also think, you know, Dumbledore's word just carries weight.
I think that he's able to have that kind of sway.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
I mean, you're but he does say he gives evidence,
So it's it can't just be that his word is
you know, good.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
It also could have been crap evidence.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
It could have just I mean, I feel like, honestly,
like the I feel like his memory of it is
probably the best evidence that there is because like he
can't like he doesn't have written evidence or like physical
evidence except for the fact that he has a memory
of Snape, like begging him you know, he'll do anything,

(01:00:17):
you know, and that's you know, and then he says, okay,
well then you know, turns by for us or whatever.
So I feel like that he probably tampered with the
memory a little bit to not give the ministry the
full depth of what Snape was doing or why that
it had to do with Lily and all that. Yeah,
but we know that he's capable of doing that, like

(01:00:38):
of editing down a memory to exactly what needs to
be given over.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
So but I think that's that's the problem, is that
whenever it comes to the memories, because and I know
that de Penzeve is like a controversial thing in the
fandom anyways, right because it's like this could have proven
so many different things. But then obviously we get to
book six and it's like, oh, actually you can tamper
with the memory, which kind of just makes all of
some who point because if you can, if you can

(01:01:02):
take something that really happened and manipulated, then at the
end of the day, it's not proof because you could
have just hampered you could have just hampered with the memory.
But again, I do think that the fact that it
is Dumbledore, I do agree that the evidence would not
have to be that solid.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
Well, and how.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Does Dumbledore know that, like speaking like of what you
were just talking about in uh with with slug Horn, Like,
how does Dumbledore know, like he just knows that that
memory has been tampered with? Is there a way to
tell if a memory.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Has been tempered right?

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
Or does he just know because he's Dumbledore and he's like,
that's not really how it went down, you know, like
because maybe there's a way to tell if a memory's
been tampered with in a way that changes the truth
of it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Yeah, I think in the Slughorn case, it's like Foggy
or something, Dumbledore said it had been really tampered with.
So I think that implies that there's a way to
do it masterfully, which Dumbledore obviously would know how to do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Do you think that someone who can masterfully tamper with
their memory literally convinces themselves that something else happened in
the past.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Listen, we all convince ourselves that things happen.

Speaker 7 (01:02:14):
They do that without magic.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Yeah, you do that without magic.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Yeah, we tamper with our own memories.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Oh lord, Yeah, I think I think this is a
great question for the listeners though, because I'm you know,
I feel like we could talk about this for another
seven hours because it's a really intriguing question, and I
sort of him, I was like, I don't have the
answer to this. The listeners, please let us know what
you think. We are very interested in your thoughts as

(01:02:41):
always and forever.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
And just kind of wrapping up Karkaroff's trial, I just
thought it was really interesting to note that if you
think about the world outside of the Wizarding World, you know,
if someone is convicted of something, even if they don't
go to prison, but you know, especially if they do
go to prison to jail, if it's on their record,
you know, they have often they have a really hard

(01:03:05):
time whenever they're back in society trying to land a job,
let alone a job that's really you know, that would
be considered a good job, right in.

Speaker 7 (01:03:14):
Terms of like your career.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
And Kakarov ends up a headmaster of his school, and
I'm like, where was the high inquisitor for dirm String.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
How who?

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
What?

Speaker 7 (01:03:30):
Who hired this man?

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
They looked at his resume like you did the Dark Guards.
Oh my god, you're in Oh he was Volden.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Oh he was a deck eater, hired hired imily and
that's just like, that's just like work to me, man,
that's crazy, and it makes me think.

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
It makes me think that Dumbledore for some reason had
something to do with that, because they feel like all
are they seem like all buddy buddy when in this
book when he comes in you know first too, when
they come to Hogwarts with dirm String and he and
Dumbledore have this like reunion like like hugging and whatever.
They're like buds. So like maybe Dumbledore helped him in

(01:04:11):
some way to land a position like that, because like, huh,
what's the like Dumbledore seems to be like chill and
like friends with the guy, even though he has that
kind of pass like I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
It might be because he's controllable, yeah, in a certain way.
Also because he ran so hard, like if the Deafbater's
ever found him again, there's very little chance of him rejoining.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
I like to give Dumbledore a little too much credit.
I'm with betting on this one, and maybe he did
it as like, oh, maybe maybe Igor can rehab himself
here by being headmaster at this dark art school. Bianca,
don't give me that face. I did say, I did
say this is a hot take, did say that I'm
giving Dumbledore a little too much credit there, But.

Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
This is a very very hot take to me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
I don't believe it saying, Okay, in the Astronomy's how
a rival for a Dumbledore dies, he was greeting the
people who like he was literally making pleasantries with the
people who were about to kill him. I don't think
in any way, shape or form, he was being chummy
with Krakarov. I think that he was just being very
classic I'm going to put on my my kind, you

(01:05:16):
know whatever phase. I'm in no way, shape or form
that he had anything to do with Cocarov being hired
at Dermstring. But I think that is a hot take.
I mean, yeah, okay, I'm not sold, but I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
All right, great.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
I there's also just saying like a lot of these
death theaters are from very high families and have a
lot of connections, and when something like that happens, sometimes
a criminal record just doesn't matter. Sometimes you just know
a guy who knows a guy and they get you
right into where you need to be. I yeah, yeah,
I mean literally look at Lucious, I mean the same

(01:05:53):
right yeah. Yeah, they're not used to having to feel
the repercussions of their own actions.

Speaker 7 (01:06:02):
Oh like bag Men m m oh yeah, okay, perfect,
I really didn't and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
We were waiting for you to keep running with it, Darling,
go for it.

Speaker 7 (01:06:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Well, so moving on to the next memory. My first
question is why did we just slide into the next memory?

Speaker 7 (01:06:26):
Like why Like.

Speaker 5 (01:06:28):
Dumbledore is just in there dumping memories into the.

Speaker 7 (01:06:31):
I know, I'm like, why why did these.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Yeah, like Harry didn't like pop back out, he literally
just they just kind of went like it was the
next episode. Do we think that's because of the way
that they went in? Do we think it's because like
these words like whenever Dumbledore put them into the penzee,
you put them in that way?

Speaker 7 (01:06:51):
Is that why?

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Because he thinks they're all connected, right, Like he's trying
to remember everything about the situation, the people that he's
in contact with right now too, because Bagman's part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
I mean yeah, but in book six, him and Harry
go into these different memories about you know, young Tom Riddle,
and they come in and out.

Speaker 7 (01:07:08):
They're not they don't just they're not consecutive.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
He's got specific things he wants to discuss about Tom though.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
I think that it's it's important to also think about
the fact that we kind of skipped over this, But like,
did Dumbledore purposely like want Harry to stumble upon the
pen sieve and dive into these memories, like these specific memories,
Like he maybe added all these memories together into like

(01:07:35):
one vial where he has all the trial memories in
one thing, or he just dumped them all in there
and was like, Oh, Harry, you know, have a lemon
drop or whatever and chill in my office. I know
how curious you are, and you'll definitely stumble upon my
pen seve and.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Or a licorice snap or whatever the heck, And that's
what it is. It's not the lemon drops as the Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Anyway, Yeah, I think he walks out, Yeah, they're a.

Speaker 5 (01:08:03):
Week but shop.

Speaker 10 (01:08:04):
Yeah, I think I think he did want Harry to
stumble upon this and and knew that he would, and
he wanted him to see these specific memories so that
they'd kind of be able to discuss them and what's
going on, you know in that in this timeframe.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
Of the yeah, the Triversard tournament and everybody involved pable.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, this was a question that I had a little
bit later, and so I so, okay, so everyone agrees
that Dumbledore wanted Harry to stumble across these.

Speaker 5 (01:08:35):
I've always thought that that was on purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Yeah, I think. I think, Yeah, Betty hit the nail
on the head. Dumbledore has consistently shown that he sets
these things up for Harry, like he wanted Harry to
find Fluffy and like go through that and like, yes, yes,
I don't. I feel less certain about the Chamber of
Secrets stuff, but you know.

Speaker 7 (01:09:00):
The first Fluffy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
But I mean, I mean, I'm pretty certain. I feel
like there's a hoping.

Speaker 7 (01:09:07):
A eleven year old will find a three headed dog.
Seems I can handle it. I mean, I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
I know this safety is not priority for students and Hogwarts,
I get it.

Speaker 7 (01:09:16):
But that to me is like it's a bit of
a stretch. And I don't know, but I mean, I don't.
I feel like I could.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
I could be convinced either way, but I just feel like,
out of all the memories that Dumbledore has, if we
do believe that he wanted Harry to come across these,
why like why these specific memories, Like why does Harry
need to know that cocker Off used to be a
death eater, like in the grain scheme of all things
like why.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
I feel like we could talk about this for a
really long time about why, like the depth of why.
But I feel like that, I mean, Dumbledore has this
like master plan right like throughout all of the books,
he has like an end game of where he wants
to get Harry. Like it's like he has a goal
for at the end of each book, where like I

(01:10:02):
need Harry to be at this place knowing this amount
of information at the end of this year, this school
term or whatever. And I think that he already knows
that Harry's going through stuff because he, you know, he's
always like has this intuition with Harry, like, oh, is
there something you wish to tell me? You know, Like
he just knows like Harry's going through stuff. He knows

(01:10:23):
there's a connection between him and Goldemort, So he probably
already knows that Harry's seeing things, having dreams.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
Having visions, which is why Harry's there to talk to him.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
So Dumbledore probably already suspects that, and he probably feels
like Harry needs to know these things in order to
a tread safely during the Triwzard Tournament because obviously he
knows Harry's in a lot of danger being a part
of it, and maybe you should know these things about
these people and the whole like Snape thing. I think
him seeing Dumbledore say Snape's no more death eater than

(01:10:54):
I am, because he knows Harry has this prejudice against Snape,
like hates him, thinks he's a death eater, He's bad,
and that kind of makes Harry rethink that. I think
there's so many reasons why he wanted him to see those.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
I think when when I'm talking about Dumbledore, I always
have to whenever I get confused about different character motivations,
I have to always have to think about his two goals.
And I think the two goals that I always come
back to with him is will it help Harry survive?
And will it help Tom die? And I think that
these sets of memories actually help serving both. So I

(01:11:29):
could be swayed into thinking he meant for Harry to
find it, but also I think it might just be
lucky chance. I think there's kind of like an equal
opportunity here for that to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
I agree, I think that given Dumbledore directly says, well,
you're not serious. As only correspondent. I have a feeling
that Sirius has a hand in the showing of these memories,
because if Dumbledore knows that he and Harry are talking,
serious could start spouting off a lot of secondhand information,

(01:12:00):
a lot of secondhand things, and we know that he
is not always the most responsible person, and I think
Dumbledore would always choose for Harry to get the information
directly from the source rather than sort of secondhand through
the filter of someone who's been in prison for twelve
years and it's trapped as a eighteen year old or

(01:12:22):
however old he was. So that's why I would believe
that Dumbledore left those for Harry.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
I also think that the fact, the fact that Dumbledore
like then after Harry comes out of the visions or
the memories, that he Dumbledore like then sits and has
a conversation with Harry about it, rather than just being like, oh,
you know, I was just reliving some memories, like He's like,
I've tried to like figure out what I'm missing. I

(01:12:51):
think he wanted Harry to see them, maybe because he
thinks Harry has some vision via Boldemort or whatever that
may be the missing link that Dumbledore's trying to put
together by looking back at these memories, because then he's like,
I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing. I can't
figure it out. And then he's hoping Harry will say like, oh,
well I recognized one of the guys in there. Who

(01:13:13):
was you know, at the at the the quidditch?

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
Uh oh yeah, yeah, it's always possible, I think, Yeah, like.

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
He may be actually hoping Harry can help him put
something together by viewing those memories.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
That makes sense. Yeah, since we're here at Bagman's trial,
I know we've already touched on this. The answer as like,
obviously yes, but did bag Men purely get off because
of his celebrity? Like, do we think he was actually guilty?
I would personally lean towards no, because it seems like
one of those circumstances where I was just chatting with

(01:13:49):
a friend I didn't realize he was a dead theater,
which does you know, it does happen. Not everybody has
ulterior motives, right, But I really do wish we had
a little bit more, a little bit more evidence here,
a little bit more background on bag Men, Like he
seems like he'd be an interesting dude to know a
little bit more about.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Yeah, wouldn't have been interesting if he actually did end
up being like just he used just his celebrity to
slide right out of it and he actually was kind
of on the death theater side. That'll be wild to
learn about.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
That would be pretty wild. That would that would have
been a real twist. That would have been a real twist.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
It brings up like this, uh, this conversation about public
opinion entering the court of law, which is always like
this sort of like dangerous game that they're playing where
they have people standing up and congratulating him on his
quidditch when like whoas inappropriate?

Speaker 7 (01:14:44):
All around? Like, I just donned that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Even I was with Barty on this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
I was with alarready Crautch.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
I was like, how dare they do this?

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
This is insane.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
It also reminded me of it kind of took me
back to the older but like to me, that felt
more of like the children's book, Like we all talk
about how like this is like the crossover book, right,
the first three or like oh they're kids books. Three
was kind of straddling the fence. But then the fourth
book we were like, nah, this is this is adulting
right here. But then you had this moment where it's
it's supposed to be this you know, serious trial, and

(01:15:16):
then to stand up and congratulate someone on a quidditch
match is like the most ridiculous thing.

Speaker 7 (01:15:23):
Like I don't even care how big of a fan
you are.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
You tell them after you don't you don't stand up
in front of everybody and do that. Like that was
so outlandish to me that I literally started busting out laughing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Though people are crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
I feel like I learned more and more crazy, Like
people do stuff like this all the time.

Speaker 7 (01:15:41):
Yeah, I don't they I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Maybe I'm crazy here.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
I feel like it's very possible this would happen.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Come on, you can't see that happening in a court?
Oh yeah, Like didn't you see the people? Didn't you
see the people who were like trying to break into
Diddy's trial and they were like outside like throwing parties.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Like okay, okay, but this is what okay, but we
are not talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
We're talking about celebrities on trial.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Okay, no, no, no, but we are not talking about someone
who was outside trying to get in right, we are
talking about I We're talking about people, and actually I.

Speaker 7 (01:16:20):
Don't even know who these people are.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
Okay, I remember I said earlier with the two hundred people,
I was like, why are so many people here? So
this is this is maybe this is something else that
I have an issue with because in my head I'm
thinking and especially thinking about Crouch. I would assume that
he would have a courtroom that is like these are
the select people who are going.

Speaker 7 (01:16:38):
To be here.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
I just it just it does not add up to me,
Like it just felt very like odd to me for
this like serious situation. You know, we we just got
out of the memory of Crocker Rob. You know, we're
seeing Crouch who's in like.

Speaker 7 (01:16:50):
Full blown you know, yeah, no jokes whatever mode.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
And then this woman is like, congrats on the Quitnits match,
and I'm like, girl, sit down, what like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
I could believe in a heartbeat.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Okay, well, listeners, let us know there's got to be
somebody out there who's like Bianca, I'm picking up what
you're putting down. I know that saying is makes me
sound very old Mark, but I've been saying I don't
know why I've been saying it. For a soldo like
the last two months. Now, someone out there, Wait, Betty,
agree with me?

Speaker 5 (01:17:20):
No, I do.

Speaker 7 (01:17:21):
I do.

Speaker 5 (01:17:21):
I think it's ridiculous, like I do.

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
But I think also coming out of like Carcoff's trial
then going into Bagmen's, it also gets you in this
mindset of like this is so serious and Bagman's trial
is so much more unserious than Carcoffs. So it kind
of like you're already in this mindset so for to

(01:17:44):
go from that trial to this one, and then it
just seems I just it just backs up what you
were saying earlier about like how this he just gets off,
you know, basically because of his status or whatever and
being a famous quiddish player and the vibes in the
courtroom must have been completely different for someone to feel
like they can.

Speaker 5 (01:18:03):
Be like, oh yeah, congrats, like you're amazing or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:18:08):
So yeah, no, I agree, it's was like totally inappropriate,
But I feel like it's also escalated by the fact
that we were this trial was so much more unseerious
than the previous one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
Yeah, which I think also goes to show that or
it also kind of like foreshadows what.

Speaker 7 (01:18:23):
Harry has been.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
He's been hearing like little nuggets, but we're really bad
and we're really about to get into the meat of
the Ministry of Magic. Is a little bit of a
crocod set, so right, it's also I think I think
there's I think there's also some of that element there
as well, where I mean even right, yeah, exactly, like
it's it's yeah, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:18:44):
The like, Yes, it's like a taste of how politicized
it is and how you know, it's very like deep
state and like their.

Speaker 5 (01:18:53):
People are just paying each.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
Other off for different favors and there's just not everything's
on the up and up, Like there's so much goin
on under the table.

Speaker 7 (01:19:02):
It's not reliable.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
I mean, even letting Karkarov go, right, there's you could
also argue, like I mean, just like Moody had said,
like why not get the information and then throw him
back and ask him and we don't really know him anything?

Speaker 7 (01:19:13):
Right, Yeah, I mean arguably I guess you do if
you made this deal.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
But in theory, like why are you letting this person
who was a dead ea or go just because they snitched?

Speaker 7 (01:19:22):
So right? Yeah, okay too shame Okay, do.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
You guys want to move on to the next to
the last of the trials.

Speaker 7 (01:19:30):
Let's do it trial number three.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
Trial number three, we've got Barti, Crouch, Junior, Ridolphus, and
Roebastian's Did I say that, right, Robastan, That's how I
would never say his game. So okay, their trial.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Why is Crouch allowed to preside over his own son sentencing? Yeah,
I'm sure I said it exactly like that in the
original episode. It makes me so mad every time. It's like, yo,
but you need to recuse yourself. He was probably harder
on his son than anyone else would have been. And
I know that's the point here. But like Wizarding World,

(01:20:06):
you are, you are fed up, like you get it together.
That is bad.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Yeah, I guess conflict of interest doesn't exist in the
Wizarding World. It's just like, well, he's the guy, so
sorry it happens to be your son.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
But this is forced his way into it. He wanted
to be the one to sentence, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
But the fact that but the fact that it's allowed
is actually diabolical.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
Like insane, unreal?

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Why why, oh my god, It's just I can't even
there's so many reasons that this is wrong, just like
mentally emotionally.

Speaker 7 (01:20:41):
I mean, this is you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Things that are like hard to watch but you can't
look away, Like that's how I feel like in this courtroom,
Like I feel like I would be in like fight
or flight mode, Like I would be so uncomfortable.

Speaker 7 (01:20:54):
And then you got the sobbing mom. This whole thing
is just wrong in every way, shape or form.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
And I don't even know why the mom. Why is
the mom even here? Like are you just here to
support your son? Like are you just here?

Speaker 7 (01:21:10):
I had so many questions throughout this entire thing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Sitting next to Crouch, like even like you're sitting it's
like it's it would be like, yeah, it's like the
president or whatever bringing his wife to sit up to
like sentence an inauguration, like to sentence their own kid.
It's so affed up. It's like, yes, what is she

(01:21:36):
doing there? And even if she was there, what is
she doing up there? Like sure be there, be in
the audience, be with your kids, no rules in.

Speaker 5 (01:21:45):
The Wizarding world.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
This is the per this is this is pers times,
it's just any and I think also even like Betty
and I were just saying, this is really just it's
like three things in a row where you're saying, like, oh,
ministry or magic, they need a high inquisitor, Like someone

(01:22:09):
needs to come in here and be like nog Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:22:14):
And I don't even know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Exactly god yeah, And I have no idea if we
actually get proof of how old Crowds Junior is.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
But whenever Harry was saying he was in his lateeens,
I was like, okay, so is there also no separation
of being a being convicted as an adult versus being
convicted as a child, Like and I'm not saying that
he didn't deserve what he got, but I'm just saying, like,
how old is he?

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Is he a teenager?

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
There after seventeen, they're considered to be adults by like
wizarding standards, So I think like.

Speaker 7 (01:22:50):
True late teens could have been like seventeen eighteen.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
That's a good point even in the Muggle world, Like
sometimes fifteen sixteen year olds are tried as adults, which
I don't necessarily agree with, but you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
Know, child, but I guess torturing someone's parents probably.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Would say you in the adults are real.

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
Yeah, I think that's probably a qualifier for an adult trial.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
And here's another thing that I was confused about right,
So he's like, Okay, you know, father.

Speaker 7 (01:23:17):
I didn't I didn't know what didn't you know? Like
I don't And this I think.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
This is one of the things that's frustrating about the
fact about us not actually getting the evidence right because
it's like was he there?

Speaker 7 (01:23:29):
Was he like just was he just seen with them? Afterward?
Because he's saying like, I.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Didn't know, And I'm like, you were either participating in
torturing these two humans or you were witnessing, Like what
is it that you didn't know exactly?

Speaker 7 (01:23:44):
Is what is what I'm trying to kind of understand.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
And then later on in the series there was somebody
I don't know if I don't think it was carker Off,
but I know there was some somewhere in the series
where Voldemort was he kind.

Speaker 7 (01:23:59):
Of distinguished between the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Death Eaters that actually like stay loyal even after they
were called i e. You know, Bellatrix and the ones
who you know, like Lucius. So we're like, you know, oh,
my slippery friend, why didn't you blah blah blah. So
we see here that Craft Junior was very much in denial,
like he was not.

Speaker 7 (01:24:19):
Like, yeah, I'm standing on business.

Speaker 6 (01:24:21):
It was me.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
I was there, that was not him in any way,
shape or form, And it just kind of makes me
wonder did Baltimore still forgive him so easily just because
he was desperate, Like did did he actually have this information?
Because he stood with two other people who were like
the dorklow, the dork lord, the dork lord.

Speaker 5 (01:24:41):
He is dord.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Like, there's one guy standing with these two people who
are like Waino scream, we're not gonna deny it, and.

Speaker 7 (01:24:52):
He's like, mommy, daddy, it wasn't me. Does Baltimore know this?
Does he know that's not Cross Junior went out?

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
I don't think he would care about that, honestly, because
he ended up going Crouch Junior ended up going to prison,
and then he got out of prison, and then he
helped Voltimort get his body back. So I think it
doesn't matter what happened before. He was a part of
that plot that helped him get his body back, and
that's all that. It's like everything before that is forgiven.
I don't think he would care that that Crouch Junior

(01:25:23):
was crying like a little baby, because who wouldn't try
to save themselves? He could have he could just cry
into the darklord like I was trying not to go
to prison so I could confind you Master.

Speaker 4 (01:25:34):
Yeah, but I think I think if Bellatricks were thinking
of not a teenager who's on trial in front of
his parents, Like Bellatrix is like evil to her core,
Like she doesn't give a damn about saving herself. She's like, yeah,
I tortured him and I loved it, like it was great,
Like you know, she's just pure evil. Where I know
this guy is a teenager and his parents are literally

(01:25:57):
putting him on trial.

Speaker 7 (01:25:59):
Yeah, when you even get into.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
This, I have a feeling that, like when it comes
to Tom accepting Barti Krutch Junior back into the fold,
I think there's like a like a two pronged reasoning.
Like the first one is he needs someone very effective,
so it's like necessity here there's someone that's that everyone
thinks is dead and also someone that is extremely intelligent

(01:26:22):
and effective for him. But also I think Barti Krutch
Junior is at an age where he can genuinely tell
him that he wanted to avoid Like if there was
truth behind him wanting to avoid prison time in order
to go and find Tom, Tom would have known like
he has at least a rudimentary body left. He's able
to tell between whether or not someone's someone's bissing him

(01:26:43):
or not. So I think that there was like genuine
intention for him to go and try to find Tom
in like his ethereal state. So I think that it
was probably a facade for his heartbreaking as this scene is.
It was something to try to get him out so
he can get back to his true father.

Speaker 7 (01:27:03):
Yeah, so you think that if he would have gotten now,
he would have gone back to try to find Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
Totally, I think so, Yeah, really I do, Betty.

Speaker 7 (01:27:13):
Do you agree?

Speaker 4 (01:27:14):
Yeah, Well, well I was just sitting here thinking I
was just sitting here thinking about how in the in
the books versus the movies, like how we don't see
young Bardi Crouch crying and like like they make him
seem so proud and like and out of father, you know,

(01:27:36):
like whatever, and he's doing his little tongue thing, like
I just feel like I feel like maybe that's a
hint to what his true nature was about it that
he wasn't like just crying and crying like innocent kid
that got.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Caught wanted to be akin to a son for Tom
like he wanted to be as close as possible a
part of that inner family, the inner circle. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:27:56):
Interesting, I think so.

Speaker 4 (01:27:58):
Yeah, I think so too, and I but I do
obviously the books and movies are different in a lot
of ways.

Speaker 5 (01:28:04):
But I do feel like maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:28:06):
That was I know JK had a lot of influence
on the way that they edited the movies together, and
maybe she was like, no, we just need to show
his true nature in this scene, like that he really is,
you know, bad, and he wanted to be a part
of it, and you know he's proud of what he did.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
I think it's a good shorthand it was a good
visual shorthand to sort of get forward they needed to
get forward. That was a good scene. I remember that
from the movie. I loved the case. What a brilliant
idea was their cage.

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
Yes, I was going to say, I feel like that
scene and like they did such a good job with Like.

Speaker 5 (01:28:42):
I know they don't show.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
Every trial in the memories in the movie, but like
the way that they propped it down, I feel like
they did such a good job of like when Karkaroff
is naming people and then you he names Barty Crouch,
Junior and everyone's like, oh and he or he says
Barti Crouch and everyone's like, and then he goes junior.

Speaker 5 (01:29:05):
They did such a good job.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
Oh good cropping that down but still having that same
overall effect of like it's his son.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Like Marland. Yeah, and David Tennant was a perfect pick.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
So oh yeah. I love that we get to see
in seeing this scene from the book though, getting to
see all through of the trials. We get to see
the adoration from the audience with Ludo Bagman, and then
we get to see the absolute hatred and the calling
for blood with the trial for the for death Eaters,
which right, I don't know, it's it's uh, it's haunting,

(01:29:39):
it's harrowing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
I love it.

Speaker 7 (01:29:41):
Everything about this trial is just the all of it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
All right, So let's we touched on this a little
bit at the top, but let's touch on the actual
just Penzi a little bit. I appreciated the shout out earlier, Betty.
It was I who put in the breakdown of the word.
This all came from the Wizardingworld dot com. Actually, so
this is where this is what they have to say
about the pencieve that uh, it is a homonym of

(01:30:10):
the word pensive, which of course is obvious, but that
word means engaged in involving or reflecting deep or serious thoughts.
And then the other part of the word is like
a sieve, so it would be something that you might
use to drain solids from localids, you know, like a strainer.
So you're like siving your thoughts out, your deep serious thoughts.
Put those words together and you get a pen sieve,

(01:30:31):
which I think is you know, I love that really
really great. Yes, uh the wordplay here is always is
very good. Would you all want one? Would you all
use one? Because you know, Dumbledore says in this chapter
like I think you can probably understand or something that
like sometimes you have too many thoughts in your head.

(01:30:52):
Harry is like, uh yeah, okay, sure, right, what do
you all think?

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
I think that this is the type of thing where
you would need a lot of restrictions because this, to me,
is a fast track to addiction. People wanting to live
in the past. I mean, especially if you think about
people who have experienced loss or or or people who
have experienced you know, great things and they just you know,

(01:31:21):
they want to say there. I mean, think about the
different ways that people already escape to, you know, whatever,
to whatever other reality there is.

Speaker 7 (01:31:31):
So I think that what I want one? Sure, I
mean why not exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
I mean I'm over here thinking like what, I would
it be dangerous for me to have one? One hundred percent?
Like I actually, no, I don't. That's my answer. That's
my answer.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:31:55):
I think that's a great point about it being addictive,
like and living in your past. But I think when
you think about it, like what you were saying, like
Dumbledore says it, and then Harry's like, yeah, okay, whatever,
like when he's like, you might find your mind we've stretched,
you know, Like I think that for Dumbledore, someone who's
like over one hundred years old, Yeah, I'm sure you

(01:32:15):
feel a little stretched.

Speaker 5 (01:32:16):
Like you've got so many memories that.

Speaker 4 (01:32:18):
Are literally turning points in the history of the Wizarding World. Yeah,
you probably need to like take those out and drop
them somewhere so you don't forget, because they could come
back and be like super important.

Speaker 5 (01:32:31):
But I mean for a teenager like Harry, he's like.

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
I'm probably just I'm really just trying to forget most
of my past because it's all very traumatic and terrible
for the most part. But yeah, I think that it
would obviously be really cool to have one, but I
could totally get it how someone like Dumbledore would definitely
find it extremely useful, you know who.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
I want to have one. I don't want to have
one myself, but I want my therapist to have one.
And I want to be able to put my thoughts
in there and have my therapist swirl it about and
we talk about them together and then I take them back.
So then so then it's like monitored and it's regulated,
and like I can use it, but I can't, you

(01:33:14):
know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:33:15):
That's a regulated pensive. I think you would have to
have that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
But I don't know if I could give anybody access
to my thought nah that.

Speaker 7 (01:33:25):
I gotta go in there first.

Speaker 5 (01:33:27):
I gotta I gotta with some of those memories I think.

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
To do something. Yeah, I think you're just.

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
Okay, But I'm just saying, like, there's just yeah, Grace,
would you would you like a Pence Eve.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
I'm on the fence about it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
I've been thinking about this for a while because like,
I feel like I would abuse the hell out of
it and I would just keep going back and being like,
is this evidence that all my friends actually secretly hate
me or like something stupid, like I don't know, because
it would be it would be beautiful be able to
relive old memories of like people that you've lost, but

(01:34:07):
also that could be really like you could really abuse
that quickly. So I think that, Yeah, I think for
my own sake, it's just like probably not the best
of ideas.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Yeah, but I mean thinking about the mirror of aar
said like Harry kept going back because he just he
literally just wanted to keep seeing his parents, and Dumbledore
had to be like, I get it, Harry, but you
know they're gone, and you know you shouldn't. You shouldn't
be spending your life in front yeah, exactly like you
shouldn't be spending your life in front of a mirror. So,

(01:34:43):
and it's not I don't think it's black or white
in terms of like it's always good or bad. And
maybe a parent just misses whatever their kid was a baby,
you know, maybe they're just like, oh, I just want
to go back to when you were like so small,
like I can remember.

Speaker 7 (01:34:57):
This is like kind of random, but like four years
ago go. I have an iPad.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
I don't really use it that often, but somehow I
came across the text messages of me and my now husband,
but I met him.

Speaker 7 (01:35:10):
In twenty sixteen.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
I came across our text messages from like twenty seventeen,
and I was just like, I feel like I found.

Speaker 7 (01:35:18):
A gold mine. Like I was, oh, my god, exactly.
But then here's what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
Then all of a sudden, I wanted to go back
to the dating site and I wanted to find our
original messages.

Speaker 7 (01:35:32):
And I'm not kidding, y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
I spent like an hour in a black hole trying
to get logged into a dating account that I haven't
logged into in like six years. And I was like,
so this is a perfect example of why I can
see can.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
Be yeah, very addictouve could be a little.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Dangerous, and there could be some time management issues around that.

Speaker 4 (01:35:52):
Also, I feel like the thing items like the penci,
the mirror of arasaid, time turners, all of these items
are like I feel like super rare, Like there aren't
like there's there's not many of them, Like we don't
ever see anybody else with a pen see as.

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
We kind of like see from the extra canonical material,
and like I'm famously a books only kind of gal
but the extra canonical material says that they it's rumored
that the pen sieve was found half buried on the
ground that the founders decided to build the school, so
they didn't even technically even make the penzive it was
found there.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
I thought that was.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
Mind blowing, what a cool detail, Like, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Pretty. I don't believe it's Kennon, but I love that.

Speaker 5 (01:36:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:36:38):
Yeah, But I feel like those items are all limited,
very rare, one of a kind.

Speaker 5 (01:36:43):
There are only I mean obviously there's more than one
time here, but.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
Still very limited because they are such like anything that
makes you relive the past is thought of as being
not great, like not something ideal to have in your possession. Yeah,
because like you were saying with tamia Vera said, he's like, yeah,
that's why you know tomorrow it's going to a new home,

(01:37:07):
Like it doesn't need to be here because it's it's toxic.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
This might be the only one that exists in the world, then,
is what it is?

Speaker 7 (01:37:14):
That what we think?

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
Is it the only one that exists because of Grace?
Before I saw that, Oh wait, yeah, Grace, before I
saw that you had put that in the Dock. I
was fully prepared to come here and to come into
this conversation and be like, all right, y'all, so who
else has a pensive?

Speaker 7 (01:37:29):
Are they expensive? Is this only for the elite?

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
And then like I saw this and I was like,
this makes a lot more sense to me, Like I
just I agree that this is not trying to imagine
this as like not even an everyday item, but just
like even trying to imagine this as like something that
even hundreds of people have just seems kind.

Speaker 7 (01:37:48):
Of like a stretch.

Speaker 3 (01:37:49):
Yeah, what is it I had?

Speaker 5 (01:37:51):
I just thought of something. You're like, what is it?
You have something?

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
I was just thinking, like, it does seem though, like
people in the Wizarding World are so familiar and used
to pulling memories out, like like Snape does it, Slughorn
does it, Dumbledore does it. I would assume multiple other
people know how to do it. What are they doing

(01:38:17):
with these memories if not putting them in a pencil,
you know, of their own. So that made me think
like maybe there or maybe there's another device like a
pen seve that they're using to store their memories. But
I mean we see Snake pull out the memory for
his tears. You know, he's like, oh, my memories are
in my tears, take them to the pen seve, Like that's.

Speaker 5 (01:38:38):
Just a thing, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:38:39):
So maybe it is more common than we think, because
we do see people doing that, like it's just like normal.

Speaker 7 (01:38:46):
Maybe there's a pen seve doop.

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
I mean, I mean, yeah, I'm sort of thinking that
maybe they're just taking them out of their heads to
remove them, and then they just put them in something.
But you need something special like a pen sieve in
order to review them and look at them, go into
them as like an outsider. But you could probably just
take it out and put it into a vial. I mean,
that's in the books that happened.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
Well, why would you be taking out your memories? I mean,
according to double Doore, the point is.

Speaker 7 (01:39:13):
To reach it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
Sure, but aren't there some memories you'd like to remove
from your brain?

Speaker 5 (01:39:17):
But question if you're when you take out the memory,
that doesn't remove it from your brain.

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
It's just you're you're taking like a copy of the
memory and giving it to somebody else.

Speaker 5 (01:39:25):
Or that's another you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:39:27):
Really ever see them say that that removes them, that
wipes your memory.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Yeah, that doesn't work. That is a long debated question
whether removing a memory removes it or makes a copy
of it. I happen to believe it removes it personally.

Speaker 5 (01:39:42):
So do you think when likes Caerls?

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
Why would why else would Snake remove his uh memories
before doing the acclumency lessons? If not to protect them? Right?
But then it doesn't make sense because are you removing
memories permanently when you give them away? It's yeah, it's
a mess.

Speaker 7 (01:39:58):
Well if you were of them, are you even never mind?
This is gonna go way too far?

Speaker 6 (01:40:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 4 (01:40:04):
I just can't imagine that taking the memory out and
putting it in a vial wipes it from your brain,
because then it's like, well, if Slughorn took that memory
out that was tampered with and gave it to Dumbledore,
then how would he remember the memory?

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
Again, it's not the same memory the one he took was,
but he.

Speaker 5 (01:40:23):
Still has details of that memory. And then after he
gives it to Harry.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
You're telling me that if I went back and told him, hey,
remember that memory you gave me, he'd be like, what
are you talking about? I don't remember remember, you know?
Like I just feel like you would still remember the memory.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
There's maybe if I didn't feel.

Speaker 4 (01:40:37):
The shame, feel that shame of it, you know, like
obviously that was super important.

Speaker 5 (01:40:42):
I don't know. I can't I can't imagine it wiped too.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
It could be both.

Speaker 1 (01:40:45):
I feel like it has to be something of like
a butterfly effect, because there's not many memories that you
have where it's like, Okay, this is this one very
specific thing that happened, and there are no other memories
tied to that memory, you know what I mean? Like
if we take out like if we think about like
Snape being with like the levee corpus, right, Like, I

(01:41:07):
also have a hard time believing that once Snape removed
that from his head, that he just he just has
no recollection of.

Speaker 7 (01:41:15):
Ever being flipped upside down by like that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
Just that doesn't land with me either, because memories are connected.

Speaker 7 (01:41:21):
You Okay, maybe you have the memory.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Of when it actually happened, but then you also what
about the memories that triggered that memory? What about the
things that you what about other things that you did
because that memory happened, right?

Speaker 7 (01:41:34):
Like what if I'm I don't know if I don't
know about like levee Corpus specifically. But let's say let's say.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
That that and that levee Corpus inspired Snape to create
some other curse. So he took out the levi the
levee Corpus memory, But then what about the other curse
that he created?

Speaker 7 (01:41:54):
You know, I'm confusing myself.

Speaker 2 (01:41:55):
You never know, hear. I think the answer is that
it can be both. I mean, if you want to
remove the memory, you can remove it. If you want
to make a copy, you can make a copy. I
think I think it can be both.

Speaker 5 (01:42:08):
I think that why not bolds up?

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
Yeah, why not both? Okay, okay, well let's let's uh yeah,
Harry and Dumbledore. Harry pulls, I mean sorry, Dumbledore pulls
Harry out of the pencie and Harry's like, oh no,
I'm really sorry. Dumblesore like it's fine.

Speaker 3 (01:42:21):
Curiosity is to say, Harry right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
Which is a great quote. I love that one a lot.
But then, as you were saying, you know, they have
a conversation about this, which does lend me to believe that,
you know, Dumbledore want him to find him. We don't
have to go back to that, but anyway, Yeah, they
start talking about what Harry saw.

Speaker 3 (01:42:39):
Was I the only one that completely forgot about the
young Bertha a bit of this chapter. I forgot got
that Dumbledore had a memory of her complexly.

Speaker 2 (01:42:46):
Sorry, I meant, no, you're not the only one. I
also forgot about it. That was what my yup meant.
I was shocked.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
I was shocked to really sadden, like she's just oh
my god, it was very sad. It was very sad
to see her just like being a little busy body
and the being like, oh god, this poor woman.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
Yeah, you're in for it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:03):
You're in for it two times over, good lord, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:43:08):
Like it's like one of those situations where you see
someone who has like a certain habit and you just think, like, man,
I really hope that they grow out of that, because
that yeah, even if you you may have gotten away
with this for X amount of time, but at some
point this is something that could potentially catch up. But
it's like when you hear something about someone and you're
not surprised and it's sad, right, Like you don't.

Speaker 3 (01:43:30):
See though it's sad because it really shouldn't have gotten
that bad. Like if she's a busybody like that, I
don't know it makes me so upset.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
I mean, it shouldn't have, but I mean, yeah, but
I think the whole point here is that this has
been her identity even since she was at Hogwarts, and
she ended up biting off more than she could chew.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
Yeah, yet twice insane unreal, once with the Crouches and
the once with Peter Petty grew Right.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
As they're having this conversation, Dumbledore starts pacing the room
and he like gets sort of silent, and Harry's you know,
Dumbledore's like pulling memories out and putting them in the
penci even Harry's just sitting there like waiting, waiting, yeah, waiting.
And I wondered if you all had thoughts about what
Dumbledore was pulling from his mind as he's like thinking

(01:44:21):
about Harry's dream and the scar pain and whatever. And
I think maybe the text answers it for us, but
I'm still interested in what you thought, because it says
Snape's face was swimming on the surface again, So maybe
he's thinking about Snape and sort of all those things
that we've been touching on here, but maybe not you
all have any thoughts, because this is when they're talking
about again the dream and Harry's scar pain and serious

(01:44:43):
is mentioned, and all that, I.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Would think maybe the oh, never mind, you already had
it right there. I was going to say Harry's dream,
but that's already there. That was the only thing, because
my brain is trying to think about if Dumbledore, if
we've seen or heard anything about Harry's scar, and like
from Dumbledore, and I don't think we have up until
this point. Like Dumbledore doesn't really talk much about the

(01:45:08):
scar really in the entire series, other than in the
beginning right where he's like, oh, yeah, you know that scar,
will you know be there forever?

Speaker 7 (01:45:15):
Blah blah blah. But other than that, that was the
only connection I made.

Speaker 3 (01:45:18):
Okay, I didn't make a ton of connections with that.
I do wonder what kind of memories he's pulling in,
what kind of what kind of advice he's gotten from
different trusted advisors that he has around him. I think
it's telling that his theory at the end of this,
when Harry does ask about the scar and the connection
is close but not quite there, you know, like he

(01:45:39):
won't ever be able to know the full extent of
their connection, and Harry is the only one that really does,
because he's the only one that like in a sense,
in a really sad way, in a really scary way,
emotionally connects with Tom.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
I just thought it was interesting that Snape's face is
the one like the keeps showing up here, and I
think Doumble or probably thinks about Snape and like manipulates
Snape and uses Snape far more than we have ever
even then the book even remotely touches on, And I
think this is maybe evidence of that. I don't know,

(01:46:15):
I just I can't. I can't. I can't think about
how Snape would be connected to the dream and the
scar pain other than how he's being used as like
the triple agent for you know all that.

Speaker 4 (01:46:30):
I mean, could it just be that he's remembering like
a memory of something that Snape told him, or advice,
because he does go to Snape for advice a lot,
or just like to talk things out, like even you know,
when his hand is acting up, like we see like
Snape is the one who's like, you don't have much time,
like he's the one looking at it. So it's like,

(01:46:53):
is it him just thinking of a memory of Snape,
something Snape has told him about Harry or about you know,
the connection between Harry and Voldemort or something along those lines, Like,
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
Yeah, No, I mean you're probably right. I'm sure it's
I'm sure that's exactly what it is and why Snape's
face is constantly there.

Speaker 3 (01:47:15):
I have a this is a theory that I go
into in the Voldemort Book and the Tom Book. So
that's coming out April twenty twenty six. Everybody, everybody can
check it out. Yeah. I go into the relationship that
Snape has with both Dumbledore and with Tom, and I
think that it's I think that he's this interesting and

(01:47:36):
he comes to this admirable conclusion in siding with Dumbledore
in the end. But he's torn between these two worlds,
mostly because Tom treats him so well but is doing
horrifying things, and Dumbledore treats him horribly but is doing
wonderful things. So he's caught between like wanting some sort

(01:47:58):
of father figure that's like the mixture between these two people,
Like can how long can his morals hold out for
for him to be treated well, for things to break right?
And I think now that that Tom is out of
the picture in this in this Curren scene, and for
these thirteen years that Tom has been gone, Snape has
been dealing with basically the abuse.

Speaker 2 (01:48:19):
That I don't won't call it to go so far
as to call it abuse.

Speaker 3 (01:48:22):
I'm sure that like there are times when it's great
in there are times when it's manipulative, but it's it's
never I never saw it be fond between them. Yeah,
so it's a it's I see a relationship as being fraught.

Speaker 5 (01:48:37):
Are you talking about Dumbledore and Snape?

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:48:40):
Or Okay, So like the fact that you're saying like
that their relationship is kind of abusive, like Dumbledore towards Snape.

Speaker 7 (01:48:49):
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:48:49):
I think that there's a there's a lot of issues
between them, and especially because I feel like Dumbledore and
Snape both did very similar things in their past where
they one of their mistakes led to the death of
someone very dear to them, and Dumbledore sees a lot
of himself in that mistake, and he hates himself a lot.
So I think he hates Snape because of that. It's

(01:49:11):
just a reflection of his own tragedies. So I feel
like it's very hard for Dumbledore to he relates to
him a little bit too. Much and it makes him
very upset from what I see of the the reflected pasts,
so I could definitely see manipulation. I could definitely see
like some kind of very very bad friendship between the

(01:49:34):
two of them. If you could call it friendship.

Speaker 1 (01:49:36):
I definitely I would not call it friendship. And I
definitely I just I have I have such an issue
comparing losing a little sister versus like losing a girl
who you were like obsessed about and not even necessarily
really in love with. But I see, yeah, I do
see what you mean about the about the relationship in

(01:49:57):
terms of like Dumbledore definitely has the upper and it
kind of reminds me of like any kind of series,
whether it's like a book or you know, a show,
a movie wherever, and.

Speaker 7 (01:50:07):
You have these we.

Speaker 1 (01:50:08):
Have these great characters, right, which is you know, very
very a very common thing where you have these moments
where you absolutely hate them. I think like Game of
Thrones is like one of the easiest examples where you
think about Jamie Jamie Lanister Lancaster, what is his name whatever, nobody.

Speaker 3 (01:50:26):
I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of the series, so
I don't know too much about it.

Speaker 7 (01:50:30):
Well, somebody out there, I know exactly what I'm talking about, And.

Speaker 1 (01:50:32):
Like from episode one, you're like, this person is the devil,
and then in the end you're like, I love him,
and you kind of have.

Speaker 7 (01:50:40):
This internal conflict.

Speaker 1 (01:50:41):
And I think that this comes up for certain characters,
not me.

Speaker 7 (01:50:46):
I always hate Snake, just just putting that out there.

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
I never like them, I don't care, but I know
that some people I get to some people have these feelings,
and I do feel like this is an example of
where those feelings could come up in terms of seeing
how like the relationship between him and Dumbledore does come
across as like Dumbledore is like, well, you just basically
got to do whatever I say for the rest of
your life because you made that mistake and now you
get to pay for it forever. So I mean I do,

(01:51:12):
I definitely do see what you mean.

Speaker 4 (01:51:13):
Yeah, I think I agree, and I think that, but honestly,
like I have a problem like with and I don't
know if any of y'all feel this way, but I
have a problem with people who like feel like Dumbledore
is the bad guy of the series, Like I literally
have so much respect for that man, Like I really
love Dumbledore and I feel like he was just put

(01:51:34):
in this really bad situation where he had to make
really hard decisions.

Speaker 5 (01:51:38):
But whatever, I.

Speaker 4 (01:51:40):
Do feel like he and Snape have a very complicated relationship.
But I think for the most part, we are constantly
seeing Dumbledore stick up for Snape to other people, whether
it's Harry, whether it's the ministry, whether it's other teachers,
like whether it's other students, like he always has Snape's
bad for the most part, and and and then when

(01:52:05):
it comes to like his relationship, like directly when he's
directly working with Snape, like I feel like they're always
very respect Like I never see Dumbledore being like outright
and ass to Snape, like he's very respectful, but in
a way that's like you you have to do this,
like because you promise me, like you you you're gonna

(01:52:26):
do whatever I say, like Beyonca was saying, like you're
you have to do whatever I say. Yea, And I mean, honestly,
for him to even be treated as well as Dumbledore,
I feel does treat him even though this dude does
a death eater okay, like straight up working for the.

Speaker 5 (01:52:39):
Bad guy and has this weird I love how.

Speaker 4 (01:52:42):
You said it, beyonca like obsession with Lily because it
really is like so unhealthy, and the fact that he
treats Harry like basically the entire like the entire time.
I mean, people want to like say, oh, Snape loved
Harry more than Dumbledore ever did, Like Dumbledore set him
up like a pick for Slot, Like no, like Snape

(01:53:05):
did not ever treat Harry well at all. Like the
only reason Snape was there for Garry was because Dumbledore
literally made him be there for him. So I do
feel like maybe Snape isn't even deserving of how good
Dumbledore is to him, even though you know, like maybe
there are moments where Dumbledore is not very you know,

(01:53:27):
not great Snape, but I just feel like it's you know,
warranted in most cases.

Speaker 3 (01:53:31):
Yeah, I feel like Dumbledore pushes him. I will say,
I don't want it to be let it be known
here and now, I actually love Dumbledore. I think Dumbledore's fantastic.
I love him for all the gray areas. I think
that he does this incredible job with the hand that
he's given. And I will say that he's one of
these characters. And I've called him before in previous episodes.

(01:53:52):
I've said that he's had sociopathic tendencies. I only say
this because he's been put in a position where he
almost has to so because I and all these people,
he has to put all these people in different places
in order to get to the final stages. And I
think that that's tragic. But I think that he's the
only one suited for the job, which is really sad
to say. I also feel like a lot of put

(01:54:14):
is put on him that isn't necessarily his fault. Like
a lot of people blame him for the whole creation
of Voldemort, and like, I don't. I don't quite think
that that's that's the entire story here, But I will
say I think that there's definitely like strong manipulation when
it comes to Snape. I think he does his best.
And I also don't think that he only thinks of
Harry as like a pig for slaughter, but like in

(01:54:35):
the end, I think that's what he needs Snape to believe,
so that's kind of what he trends into. But oh god,
what's the point that I was trying to make. I
just I just think that Dumbledore is he gets a
lot of a flack for the stuff that he does. Yeah,
I agree with you.

Speaker 4 (01:54:52):
It's like, what would you do in his position? Like
people are like, oh, well, you know, he just kept
Harry alive just to kill at the proper moments, Like, oh,
so you think you should have just let Harry die
when he was like five years old or ten years
old or eleven years old and then not save the
rest of the Wizarding world like the good of the many, right,
like at least Harry got to live as long as

(01:55:14):
he did. And then also like he probably definitely in
his Dumbledore way, knew there was a way for Harry
to survive in the end. Anyways, it she does, right,
but it's like, what would you rather just have let
Harry die he was eleven? Like what and then everybody
else perished because only Harry could have saved everybody else

(01:55:36):
by taking down Boldemort. Like it just I don't know
how you can blame Dumbledore. I really don't, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:55:41):
And also talking about Dumbledore, it's really really satisfying seeing
him connecting the dots where no one else is my
man coming through like these disappearances.

Speaker 2 (01:55:51):
No no, no, no no.

Speaker 3 (01:55:54):
I love it when people are working at their highest
like mental self. You could definitely tell I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
I feel like, out of all the times I've like
reread these books, this was like the.

Speaker 7 (01:56:06):
The first time that it dawned on me where I
was like, even.

Speaker 1 (01:56:10):
At this point, it is ludicrous that the ministry was
ignoring these I mean even like the Muggle the Muggle
death that Dumbledore brought up, Like you, there's you cannot
be a reasonably competent person and think that these are coincidences,
like you just you just can't. There's no way, like

(01:56:33):
how and in mind you we're not even just talking
about like, oh, this happened out of nowhere. We're literally
talking about the same exact patterns from the past. And
this is exactly where it just starts to get so
infuriating because you just realize how much more time And
obviously this.

Speaker 7 (01:56:54):
Wasn't how it was supposed to happen because this is
now the.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
Books were written, But you just think about how much
more time there could have been to jump on these
things early.

Speaker 7 (01:57:04):
To like start, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
You know what, y'all send in the Dementors after he
said the Dementior is after Voldemort?

Speaker 3 (01:57:10):
Like what?

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
Yeah? I think the biggest problem here is that and
I don't even know if problem is the word. But
I think the biggest thing here is that Dumbledore is
obsessed in a good way with Voldemore and his past
and learning about him to eventually defeat him. So the

(01:57:35):
Ministry isn't thinking about these things because who gives a
crap If Frank Bryce is dead. They don't necessarily know
that that's where the Riddles lived, and that's where Voldemor's mother,
you know, gave him up for adoption, and where he
was birth. They don't necessarily know that because if we
think about half Blood prints, and Dumbledore even says there

(01:57:58):
are very few people who actually knew that Tom Riddle
turned into Voldemore, so there may not be a large
recollection of his history. And really that sort of actually
die is with Dumbledore in a lot of ways. So
I hear, I hear you.

Speaker 7 (01:58:16):
There doesn't need to be a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:58:18):
It could literally just be Dumbledore telling them and then
bam they know.

Speaker 2 (01:58:22):
Yeah, but but Dumbledore, there's no Dumbledore has no reason
to tell everybody that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
But but I thought that he what do you mean
he has no reason? He's literally trying to tell them.

Speaker 7 (01:58:32):
Maybe not yet.

Speaker 3 (01:58:32):
The second Okay, maybe Tom's past is the second that
he that if Tom gets clued into it, he starts
fortifying his defenses on his horse Cruxes. Yeah, so he
has to be very careful about the kind of people
that know that information.

Speaker 7 (01:58:47):
Yeah, I mean that's true, but it's a shame.

Speaker 5 (01:58:50):
When you think about it.

Speaker 4 (01:58:50):
In the next book, like Dumbledore does try to tell
the ministry multiple times.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Yeah, he does, but he doesn't tell a lot about history.

Speaker 5 (01:59:00):
They're like, no, he's not, No, he's not.

Speaker 4 (01:59:02):
It's like he does try to tell them and they're
just like not receptive. Like it's just again, like how
corrupt and political it all is with the ministry, like
they which is unprepared.

Speaker 3 (01:59:13):
They don't want to hear it, Like nobody needs.

Speaker 2 (01:59:15):
To hear bad news like that.

Speaker 3 (01:59:17):
Yeah, okay, moving on to another bit of bad news, the.

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
Torture of the Long Bottoms.

Speaker 3 (01:59:23):
Oh holy hell. This is something that I when I
was doing just the slightest bit of research into into
like the events of the chapter itself, there was a
theory that was put on the lexicon about like the
fact that Neville might have been a little bit older
when this happened, depending on like how close these three

(01:59:43):
trials are, So I don't know how old Neville might
have been if he was, like god, maybe two or three.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
So yeah, I mean, because do you guys think that
he might have remembered they are tortured after Folhemore's downfall,
So James and Lily are dead. So this is at
best early nineteen eighty two, So Neville is a year
and a half at the youngest. I can't imagine, yeah,

(02:00:13):
that he'd be much older than that. I see where
this where that theory could be, you know, could come in.
But I can't imagine Neville would have any memories.

Speaker 7 (02:00:24):
I can't either.

Speaker 3 (02:00:25):
Yeah, there was fifteen months when when his parents were killed,
So I can't imagine that Neville was much older when
his parents were tortured.

Speaker 2 (02:00:33):
I can tell you're a mother because you talk in months.
I said year and a half, you say fifteen months, yeah,
fifteen months.

Speaker 5 (02:00:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:00:43):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
Neville's story is I think arguably the saddest story in
these books, right, Like, is there again.

Speaker 5 (02:00:52):
Why didn't the dementors go after Neville on the train?

Speaker 6 (02:00:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:00:56):
No, maybe they just didn't get there before they got
to hair. This is this is actually my argue for
both of these families.

Speaker 4 (02:01:01):
Weren't there like one hundred dementors on the train, or
like at least more than one, you know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 2 (02:01:06):
Yeah, I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (02:01:08):
I'm so sorry. The series are very specific. You're learning
now It's Pucket very detailed, and other ones are like
I think there was like four on the train.

Speaker 2 (02:01:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (02:01:20):
Yeah, I mean, maybe it wasn't one hundred, but there
were more than one.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
I think back to that theory that I brought up
about the dementor attacking Harry because of Voldemort's memory and
Neville doesn't have that memory. Maybe that's why I don't know,
I'm just pulling it.

Speaker 3 (02:01:34):
Out of right. Tom's memory was just too delicious. They
need to eat it up.

Speaker 5 (02:01:40):
That's why they, I mean, we do find out.

Speaker 4 (02:01:41):
That's why the Demanders always target Harry is because of
that piece of the whole crux in him.

Speaker 1 (02:01:47):
If Neville was there, why did belitics leave him unharmed.

Speaker 3 (02:01:51):
There's the theory that they Okay, they were captured in
towards like the wording was that that Frank was captured
and then they captured his wife to get more information
from Frank, who was a very popular orror so I
think that perhaps they left Nelle behind was being watched
by his grandparents or his grandmother at the time. I'm

(02:02:12):
not exactly certain, but I think they targeted those two
to get the information. Maybe they would have gone for
Neville if they had the chance.

Speaker 2 (02:02:20):
Yeah, that's what I.

Speaker 7 (02:02:21):
Was going to ask, Like, do we think that they
would have taken Neville?

Speaker 3 (02:02:24):
If what would have what would Neville really? Well, then again,
they could use it as leverage to say.

Speaker 1 (02:02:30):
Thee Yeah, isn't the only reason they tortured the wife
was to get it out of the husband. They didn't
torture the wife because they thought the wife knew. They
only tortured the wife because they thought that that would
inspire the husband to tell the truth. Yeah, and obviously
we're glad this didn't happen to Neville. It was just
something that I thought about. I mean, we know that
Bellichers is is.

Speaker 7 (02:02:49):
I mean, I don't know. I'm sure there's some debate
out there about whose words her Voldemort, But.

Speaker 1 (02:02:56):
Yeah, I mean, just shout out to Neville for even
surviving that, because Neville might have not even made it
in the story.

Speaker 4 (02:03:02):
Yeah, I mean that begs the question if, like if
they had killed Neville, would would the prophecy have like
been completely like would have been completed then, like like
you have been fulfilled if they have killed Neville.

Speaker 3 (02:03:18):
Well, I don't the prophecy only exists because Tom keeps
thinking it exists.

Speaker 2 (02:03:23):
No, it would because he still.

Speaker 3 (02:03:24):
Would have targeted Harry because there's still one left, you know.

Speaker 7 (02:03:27):
Right, he would have told himself it was some other kidding, right.
I feel like that's just a level of obsessed that
he was, which is yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (02:03:36):
Ironic given it came from Trelawney. But we're not going
to go down that road at all. We're just we're
not doing it.

Speaker 3 (02:03:42):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:03:42):
It's wild. As they're talking about the Long Bottoms Dumbledore,
you know, Harry has no idea, and Dumbledore's like, really,
Nevill's never told you, so I'll give you know. Dumbledore
gives them a little background and he says the attacks
on them came after Voldemorre's fall from power, just when
everyone thought they were safe. Bh blah blah blah. Unfortunately,
the Long Bottoms evidence was given their condition none too reliable,

(02:04:07):
and I'm really interested to know what kind of evidence
they would have tried to get from the long bottoms,
And I know we don't they don't use veritaserum in
the logical way, but could they have used it here?
And would it have even worked when you have brains
that are quote addled by the Crusiotis curse? I mean,

(02:04:29):
what does that do to We see that they have
permanent spell damage, so what does that even do to them?

Speaker 3 (02:04:35):
Also, this is evidence against the death theaters, that's what
you were talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:04:39):
Yeah, I completely misread that note. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 7 (02:04:41):
Yeah, I don't think it would have worked.

Speaker 1 (02:04:43):
I think that if you're like, if the brain is
too damage, you can't just because if that were the case,
I mean I can't not believe that if you could,
if you could get something from them, if their brains
were that damage, then I gotta believe that there's also
a potion that could somewhat reverse it.

Speaker 2 (02:05:00):
Yeah, Like I don't.

Speaker 7 (02:05:01):
I mean, it's not like the brain isn't the.

Speaker 3 (02:05:04):
Brain's not, right, dark magic can't be reversed.

Speaker 1 (02:05:07):
Right, But also I just think, like the brain's not
you know, it's not separate from the human right, Like
you can't like take out someone's brain like it once
they're once they're detached, it's essentially I mean, I shouldn't
say useless, but you.

Speaker 7 (02:05:19):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:05:20):
It's not like you can just pick up someone's brain
and be like, all right, now we can know everything
that we.

Speaker 7 (02:05:24):
Know just by dipping it and verits it. That was
very graphic. I'm not even forget it. Let me just stop.

Speaker 3 (02:05:31):
They do have floating brains in one department, like.

Speaker 7 (02:05:36):
Floating and varits of serum.

Speaker 5 (02:05:38):
Does anybody can anybody just have access to varits serum?

Speaker 2 (02:05:43):
It's got to be hard to make, right.

Speaker 7 (02:05:45):
I think this is why it's so.

Speaker 1 (02:05:47):
I think this is why it's so controversial, because because
because so many things could have been so easily resolved.

Speaker 4 (02:05:56):
That's what I like if that were the case, and
there how to be like really specific times when when
it's legal to use, Like obviously the Dead leaders don't
care if it's legal to use or not, but also
do they can they do they even have access to
veritus serum to use? Because I feel like that would
be so much easier and quicker than torturing information out
of people.

Speaker 5 (02:06:14):
But they probably get off on.

Speaker 2 (02:06:15):
That, so whatever, Yeah, cruelty is the point they're.

Speaker 4 (02:06:18):
Like enjoying it, probably yes, but yeah, but I just
like even in the trial like with Harry, when with
the dementors, and and in Little Winging, like could they
have just given Harry some veritus serum and been like, hey,
you know, did it happen or did it not? You

(02:06:39):
know whatever, there's probably the fact they didn't use it
means there must be like a lot of legalities around
when you can use verita serum, who you can use
it on whatever, Because we hear Snape say, you know,
regrettably the use of it on students is forbidden, but
it sounds like a.

Speaker 3 (02:06:56):
Bit of a powerful though now talking about it.

Speaker 7 (02:06:59):
Is one dred percent plot hole, just like the time turners.

Speaker 1 (02:07:02):
Just like all of these are plot holes because all
of these things could have solved power like eighty percent.

Speaker 7 (02:07:08):
Like all the things that happen in this series.

Speaker 1 (02:07:11):
And this is why it's always so frustrating when you
when you think about it, I'm like, oh, how convenient
that you had it in book four. But I mean,
if there's anywhere to use veritas serum, it's probably in court.

Speaker 7 (02:07:25):
That's probably the one place exactly where it should be legal.

Speaker 1 (02:07:30):
But that would make too much sense, That would have
made way too much sense.

Speaker 3 (02:07:34):
So you guys, do you guys play dungeons and dragons
at all? There's this Okay, there's this one spell that's
called Zone of Truth, where if you cast it within
a certain sphere of yourself, if some people are put
under this spell, because they can resist it.

Speaker 2 (02:07:51):
If if you get put under the spell, you have
to tell the truth.

Speaker 3 (02:07:54):
But the caveat is it doesn't have to be the
whole truth, and you can just avoid talking completely.

Speaker 2 (02:07:59):
So I think that they even mentioned in.

Speaker 3 (02:08:01):
The series that like they're different ways to trick this system,
Like you don't yes, you can drink for to see
them and then just like tell half truths or like
talk about something like like try to bend things. That
it sounds a certain way, but I don't know, because
people do that with Zone of Truth all the time.
They'll just like refuse to talk or they like talk

(02:08:22):
about something else completely different or something like that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:25):
But when they use it on Bardiacraft Junior, it's almost
like it almost almost like he goes into his zone
where he no longer has he cannot do anything other
than tell the truth. So I think that the way
that they kind of design this potion, the way that
they presented it if at the end of the book
is like.

Speaker 7 (02:08:42):
But once you drink it, there's nothing else you can do.

Speaker 3 (02:08:44):
You like chattering Even before that though, Like, wasn't he
going off before hand on his MONOLOGU wouldn't you have
been kind of proud to keep going on.

Speaker 1 (02:08:54):
I don't even think he was in I don't even
think he was conscious enough to be proud.

Speaker 7 (02:08:58):
Like it was.

Speaker 1 (02:08:58):
There was no emotion I do it like it was.
It was more like robotic.

Speaker 5 (02:09:04):
It almost looked like he was fighting the potion.

Speaker 4 (02:09:06):
Like when the way he was like saying the words,
it was like he was like trying to hold them in,
but they are just like spilling out, like the potion
is just forcing him to say it.

Speaker 3 (02:09:17):
Wouldn't have been cool to like see more instances of
this so we could actually like get it, get a
feel in a court room makes most sense.

Speaker 2 (02:09:23):
You are right, but alas, we are not going to
get that, are we We're not. Nope, I'm okay with it.

Speaker 3 (02:09:30):
But it's been a wonderful discussion.

Speaker 2 (02:09:32):
Thank you, Betty. It's been wonderful.

Speaker 5 (02:09:37):
It was awesome. I loved it. I love diving into
this stuff. But I can like it. I could talk
about Harry Potter all day, every day. I love it.

Speaker 3 (02:09:44):
Is there any way that we can find you online
that our listeners can find out what you're up to?

Speaker 4 (02:09:48):
Absolutely, you guys can find me at real Betty Maxwell
on Instagram and TikTok, where I do lots of Harry
Potter and press, like, among among all my other my
singing and all my other impressions and stuff, I do
tend to do lots of Harry Potter stuff too.

Speaker 2 (02:10:08):
What's your favorite impression.

Speaker 5 (02:10:12):
Like Harry Potter or just like overall both both?

Speaker 2 (02:10:14):
I want to know both. I'm just curious.

Speaker 4 (02:10:17):
Harry Potter the one that I probably like gravitate towards
immediately would be like would be hermione And then my
just overall favorite impression. I probably, I mean like because
I do singing impressions too, so I really enjoy doing
like Judy Garland or Julie Andrews.

Speaker 5 (02:10:37):
I like doing their voices and then speaking impression. I
don't know. Probably people really enjoy my lowest Griffin impressions.

Speaker 2 (02:10:48):
That's amazing. Uh yeah, that's that's how I found Betty
through her through her Harry Potter impressions, and I was like,
she needs to come on our podcast. She's talented and
cool and fun. I was like, she needs to be here.

Speaker 5 (02:11:00):
Thanks. Yeah, check out my I have on on my Instagram.

Speaker 2 (02:11:03):
I have a.

Speaker 4 (02:11:05):
A pinned video of me doing about a cadabra in
like a bunch of different voices and then like a
bunch of Harry Potter impressions in my in my feet.

Speaker 5 (02:11:14):
I've done it many times, so yeah, definitely go check
them out.

Speaker 3 (02:11:16):
A lot of people casting that death curse.

Speaker 5 (02:11:18):
It's a lot of yeah, yes, I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:11:24):
Well, Like Gray said, it was really awesome to have you,
so like, thank you for taking the time to be
here today.

Speaker 5 (02:11:30):
Thank you guys so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (02:11:31):
It was a lot of fun and friends. Our next
chapter revisit is going to be definitely hellos Chapter twenty nine,
The Lost diadem Ooh oh man.

Speaker 1 (02:11:42):
Yeah yeah, I was like, yeah, that's a that's a
great chapter.

Speaker 2 (02:11:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:11:47):
Make sure that you that you tune in listeners, and
if you want even more of us, you can follow
us on pretty much any social media outlet at Alohilmore
MN or on Facebook at Open the Dumbledore. And please
do not forget to subscribe, save and share this episode
with all of your family and friends. This has been

(02:12:08):
episode sixty five of the Final one hundred.

Speaker 2 (02:12:10):
I'm Bianca, I'm Kat.

Speaker 3 (02:12:11):
And I'm Grace. Thank you for listening to episode four
sixty five of Aloha Mora.

Speaker 5 (02:12:16):
I've Been the Dumbledore.

Speaker 11 (02:12:29):
Aloha Mora is produced by Tracy Dunstan. This episode was
edited by Patrick Musilk. Aloha Mora was co created by
Noah Freed and Kat Miller and is brought to you
by APWBD LLC.

Speaker 3 (02:12:54):
Just a pause before we do the open the Dumbledore, Betty,
do you want to do it with one of your
incredible impressions?

Speaker 2 (02:13:02):
That would be amazing. I wait, I do it, but
I've done it a million times.

Speaker 3 (02:13:06):
I would be honored to hear you do it in
whatever voice you feel called to.

Speaker 2 (02:13:12):
So our tagline is opened the dumble Door like we
always end our episodes with it.

Speaker 5 (02:13:18):
Yeah, just say that phrase, open the Dumbledore.

Speaker 2 (02:13:20):
Ye, and whatever voice do you want?

Speaker 8 (02:13:24):
Okay, let's see. I could do it in Luna's voice.
That might be cool, Open the Dumbledore. Or like, let's see,
how would I do it in the miaone's voice?

Speaker 5 (02:13:34):
Big may not? Yep, Opened the Dumbledore.

Speaker 2 (02:13:39):
Perfect? That was perfect. She's super talented. That's why I
was like, we have to have that on the show.

Speaker 3 (02:13:47):
Is she in the room with us right now, is
Hermione here

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