HBP, 30 Revisit: Mandatory Work Funeral

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
This is episode four hundred and sixty nine of Alohi
Mora for September thirteenth, twenty twenty five. Hello, friends, and

(00:38):
welcome to another episode of Alokho Mora, the fandom's original
Harry Potter book Club. I'm Cat Miller, I'm Katherine Lewis,
and I'm Josh Cook.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
And joining us today from the Retold Podcast is Barry Watson.
What is a Barry?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Thank you for having me, Guys, it's an honor to
be here.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Thanks for being here. Tell our listeners a little bit
about yourself, like your show and your Harry Potter journey
and all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, this is so I love this because every episode
I do, I ask my guests they're fan of my
d and I never get to say it, so I
finally get the same mind. I am a hufflepuff. My
favorite Harry Potter movie is the Fourth One. I'm unapologetic
about that. My mama played it for me every time

(01:24):
I was sit growing up. Just a nice comfort movie
for me.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
I even love the dumb little scene at the end
when Harry's like Hermioney goes up when Hermione says everything's
going to change now. Isn't it. Harry's like, yes, I
love that. It's so funny to me.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
We have a commentary track with Patrick Doyle that you
would really enjoy.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Then oh heck, yeah, I'm pulling that up. Uh. And
then is that is that on the feet? Is that
on your feet? Like the Oh heck yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
He was absolutely precious that way.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
One of my favorite book would be the probably the
sixth Book. Love the Sixth Book and all the extra
stuff in there.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
We would have judged you if you had said Goblet
of Fire as well.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
So it's a close one. It's a close one. But
I got I just got into Harry Potter because when
I was a little kid, you know, I grew up
in a a nice little Southern Baptist house and my
dad was all like you, we're not We're not engaging
in this witchcraft. And my mama was like, babity bobbity boo,
you're gonna watch this. My mom fought for it. It'd

(02:33):
be freaking love it. Uh, it's a So I started
watching it and I kind of felt like stopped. But
as I got older and started listening to audible books,
I re found the series and got reobsessed with it,
and now it's something I listened to multiple times a year,
watch the movies multiple times. I proposed to my wife

(02:54):
and Diagon Alley and it was and uh yeah. Now
I have my own Harry Potter podcast too, where I
just have called Retold, and I just have guests come
on and we go through the books two chapters at
a time. We play some trivia and highlight some do
a lot of what you guys do on this show too.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
So yeah, cool, that sounds fun. Where in Diagon did
you propose?

Speaker 3 (03:17):
If you're in the Wizarding World at Universal, it's like
right just almost underneath that little bridge that's in front
of Greenots, like if you when you really close to
the entrance, just in front of the Weasley shop, like
a little bit ahead of it. And so what I
did was I told her. I told her that we
were going on a wand tour, because you know they

(03:37):
have those interactive wands, and she I gave her the spell,
the incantation, and I told her if you if you
say this spell and pointed at the dragon, he'll shoot fire.
And she didn't know that the dragon just shot fire
and we were in control of it. And that the
spell was. You know, it's all Harry Potter spells are

(03:57):
in Latin, and when you translate it, it says ask
me your question. And so it's like she's getting me
to ask the question. And so she she does the incantation.
She's like, I don't think it worked, and I was like,
try it again, and she has it again, I don't
think and she's facing away from me and she goes,
I don't think it worked, and I said, I think
it did, and she turns around and I'm on my

(04:19):
knee holding the ring and then the rest is history.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Dude, I would marry you.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
It was in the middle of a hurricane Ian, like
Hurricane Ian was just about to go off. And actually
I was actually supposed to propose the next day and
all of our relatives were going to be there recording
and having the video and all this. But Universal had
just announced we're shutting the park down the next few days,
and I was like, we.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Ride to.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
I love that. That's a super super sweet story and
lucky for you, we are talking about a chapter from
your favorite book today, Chapter thirtyeth half Blood Prints the
White Tomb Rip Dumbledore. The first time we talked about
this chapter was on episode one eight called Grief and
Gold from August twenty fifteen with Caleb, Rosie Allison, and

(05:18):
guest host Anna. Wow, this is an old podcast.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
That's a cool title though, Grief and Gold.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, we were always really good with the titles. I
feel like that's one of our fortes. Maybe that's me
patting myself on the back, but you know, but yeah, friends,
if you want to go get some more enjoyment out
of the White Tomb, go listen to that episode before
or after this one, you know, just at any.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Time, whenever it doesn't happen whenever. This episode is sponsored
by Daya on Patreon. Thank you deya for our Patreon
offers a lot of great perks, including add three episodes,
we meet ups with the hosts, and so much more.
Part start at just three dollars a month, so head
on over to patreon dot com slash Elohimora to become

(06:08):
a sponsor, and if you're looking for non monetary ways
to support the show, you can subscribe, save and share
this episode with your friends and your favorite Harry Potter communities.
We appreciate the support of every single one of our listeners. However,
you're able to do so. Thank you, Thank you. Everybody
return should do it.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Chapter revisits Chapter thirty What to.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
This chapter can be summarized in three words funeral, farewell,
and resolve. Doubledore's funeral is held on the grounds of Hogwarts,
drawing students, staff, and even magical beings like centaurs and
merfolk to pay their respects. Harry is filled with grief,
but also a sense of determination as he reflects on
Dumbledore's life and sacrifice. During the service, Harry notices that

(07:12):
many in the wizarding world, from ministry officials to old friends,
are united in their mourning. Afterward, he breaks things off
with Jenny, believing she'll be safer without him when he
continues his fight against Boldemort. Finally, Harry decides not to
return to school the following year, resolving instead to pursue
Goldemore's horcruxes with Ron and Hermione by his side.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
That's a great summary.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
That was a great summary.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
I loved it, especially the beginning of the funeral, farewell,
resolve and breaking it down like that As a as
a youth pastor, One thing I noticed was, like, man,
this could have been perfect if it was like something
like another f at the end, the f F F Yeah,
And I was like, maybe follow through for finality something there.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
I like that. You see my shirt? Oh yeah, I
love that. Yeah. And I have Hebrew on my wrists
so well.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
My wife has it on her forearm.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
So I love Jesus to.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
In common.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
You know, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
This for the somber tone of the chapter. It's a
really I hasten to say the word fun, but it's
like a very good it's a very good chapter. You
all know that I have post full Circle, really found
my love for Half Blood Prints, and just reading this

(08:48):
chapter again, I was like, yeah, the chapter is so great.
We get to see so many parts of the Wizarding World,
even in this small little bubble.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, and like I feel I felt weird. I'm glad
that you said that, Cat, because I felt weird with
this kind of thought that I had. While we're going
through and we're talking about all these people that are
coming to Hogwarts and kind of working our way back
through the attendees, I was like, this feels a very
sitcom clip show to me. Where we're going this person

(09:19):
shows up and this person shows up, and it's like
it's a lot of cameos, and I was like, yeah,
it was a lot of I don't know, I thought
it was a lot of fun of like, oh, Madam
Maxim's here, and now the Scrimgeward's here, and you know,
all these kind of things, and it's it's weird having
such a fun feeling in a chapter that we're talking about,

(09:41):
I mean, my favorite character's death and the funeral it was.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Really funny too, just Harry trying to in moments trying
to fight back his laughter, very much like a I
don't know, I haven't been to a lot of funerals,
but I have, you know, the ones I have there
there are times that I think that the deceased person
would have found something funny at the funeral, of like
they would have enjoyed that. And I got you know,
I think that's part of a good way to begin

(10:04):
the recovery. The grieving process during that time seems kind
of healthy rather than just stay stuck in and have
to be sad. So I like the happy vibes that
are dispersed throughout this agreed.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, And I think in this in the funny thing
that Dumbledore wouldn't enjoy is grop wearing like I don't
think it's a sertain tie when he's in like a
jacket or something. I don't know. Just first off, who
made it? Where did Haggard get it? And does it
actually fit?

Speaker 4 (10:34):
I don't know it just I mean Haggard would have
to make it, right.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
I mean, probably, but Hagard can sew who knew?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
I think what is it in the that deleted scene
in movie one, he's knitting that yellow scar or something
on the train.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Oh you know, I bet he's had to make his
own close his whole life because he's half giant.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah. Probably, I mean we've talked about it before. He
has that mole skin her coat. The number of moles
that that boy has to kill to make that coat
is nuts. Could he take Could he take a like
a normal coat and like have someone do magic on
it to make it bigger and grand?

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yep, he could also do.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
I wonder if he you said, the number of moles,
what if he took one mole and was like make
it big and made it for one mole. That way
he didn't have to kill it.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
That so ethical that that just does not set take it?

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, I think I think Haggard would get enjoy out
of out of the out of the Murder of Thousands.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
Gee, I'm trying to find I can't see it in
the dock. But like, there was a moment talking about
the the Weasley twins wearing their dragon skin suits. First
of all, I was like, you know, perhaps animal cruelty,
but also that does look sick, Like they had to
look really cool in those dragons suits. But I was thinking,

(12:07):
my mind just made the connection when at the end
of the Hogwarts song at book one, the Weasley twins
were the ones singing the longest because they were singing
the funeral Dirge and Dumbledore was directing their funeral dirge,
and it was like, how and it said he was
like had a smile on his face and was happy
while doing it, And so I think I think he

(12:28):
would have laughed at their suits if he had been there.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, I like that you put that together. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
That's such a good circle moment. But as part of
sort of this clip show, we get to see the
leaving of students from Hogwarts, well sort of offscreen we
hear about it, but I think as the Buttill twins
who are gone and then we hear about Shamus standing
up to his parents and being like, I'm staying here
for the funeral, which is so great. It's such a

(12:56):
three sixty from where he was in the last book,
and it's just like, Seamus, my boy, I'm so glad
that you like grew up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
I also liked that it didn't end with his mom
storming out, but she was like they came to an agreement,
you know. She she was like, all right, fine, I'll
stay too, and I don't know if she ended up
finding a place, but since she tried to find someplace
in hogsmeat.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
So yeah, I mean it's very it's very coming of
age as Seamus in general, I think that there is
the potential that that he holds some type of not grudge,
but like a bit of resentment of you know, losing
out on so many I guess efforts to grow a
friendship and order of the Phoenix because of you know,

(13:41):
discussions and things that were happening at home during the
daily profit battle with with Harry in the last book.
And then you know, now we have all these things
coming up, and you know, Seamus is is on Harry's
side and or at least isn't only going to listen
to his family, you know, And and I mean the

(14:03):
exchange could very much have been Remember last year, whenever
you know you didn't believe, you didn't believe Harry, you
believe the prophet and all these kinds of things. While
I'm staying for Dumbledore, I also.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Think this moment kind of sets up something important for
the rest of the chapter of just how much Dumbledore
means to people. Even if even if some people are
there just out of fake respect, everybody still knows that
there's a respect that he is due. And so Seamus
saying this is how much this man means to this school.

(14:37):
I'm staying so, I mean, just good for him.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
I like, he's a good example of folks who break
out of the propaganda.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right hard to do.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
And I couldn't have meant he's is he Irish or Scottish?
You can't remember seamous Irish? Can you imagine him standing
up to his Irish mother and how that whenever you know,
it's just it's kind of like a Southern mom like, oh,
it's gonna be bad, you know. Yeah, the amount of

(15:12):
gumption that it really took to stand up to that
kind of a parent that thinks that they do know everything,
and that that watches the news religiously, reads the newspaper
or whatever religiously and believes ninety eight percent of what
they read, and you break out of that mold. Aunt.

(15:36):
The amount of backbone that kid had to have to
go into that conversation was that was really cool, really cool.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Well. The other thing, the other thing to think about
with Seamus too, is that you have been at the
end of six year. There's a real chance that he
could have or at least be really close to coming
of age. I don't know when Seamus's birthday is. I
think birthday is the least within the next year, and
I think some of that has to do with it too,

(16:05):
of like, I'm I'm an adult, I'm not doing this,
I'm not going home.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the day when I become
an adult.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, fingers crossed, there's.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Still maybe I won't listen. Being an adult is overrated.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
I saw something the other night that said, when I
was a kid, I looked forward to not having a bedtime,
and now like I can't wait to go too bed Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
I get mad at myself when I stay up too late.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Is a way to feel it tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
My friends often say, is like when I was a kid,
I look forward to getting sick because it meant that
I could miss school. But now I hate getting sick
because it means I have to work while I'm sick.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Right exactly, or take care of kids or all of
the you know, you're never just typically just chilling at home.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
My kids are up at six am no matter what.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Yeah, and then typically if you're sick, they either are
sick or just we're sick. So everybody's sick, and you
have to take care.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Of the house.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Right, bless your breeders for populating the earth.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right breeders is crazy.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah. So Harry is lamenting over the fact that he
didn't have, you know, more time with Jenny. The weather's beautiful.
It says that he Ron and Hermione and Jenny have
been hanging out outside spending as much time as again together.
And I just love that when we get these little
moments of Harry getting the slices of the good life

(17:51):
and just like wishing and like almost just I don't
want to use this. I guess it's kind of ironic,
dying to to have more of that, just like oh,
and it's just always so it makes me feel for him, Yes,
a lot when we get moments like this, but I'm
glad that he gets some of them here, you know,
with the beautiful weather with Jinny under the beach tree

(18:13):
and escaping together.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
The fact that he he takes the time to appreciate that. Yeah,
Like I know it's I know it's the writer and
she's a woman and she's writing from a you know,
sixteen seventeen year old's point of view. But what we
see we see him appreciating it. So I think that's. Yeah,
it's really amazing.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
I don't get these often. Let me let me live
in this just for a.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Bit, big day. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
I think of the in the chapter before they go
off to get the horse Crux. He's just soaking in
this time times like this and thinking like the weather
was mocking him, as the line in that one, because
it was like he couldn't go out and enjoy the

(19:01):
because the weather, because with Jenny, because Snape was holding
him in for detention. So this is kind of similar
to that, if man, we could even had better times,
if the world would have let me.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Well, I mean he didn't have to try to kill Malfoy.
There was a little bit of reason for that. You deserve.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
You do deserve this one. Yeah, when you said.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Snogging, that's on you, dude.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
So when Harry refers to Jenny as his best source
of comfort, quotes his best source of comfort, do you
think that's like the four of them, like we were
talking about just appreciating life as it is. Or do
we think that is specifically referring to Jenny's expertise at kissing, snogging, etc.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
What do we think?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Listen as somebody who is single by choice, very happy
with all of that. The only thing that I from
time to time miss is that com covert of another person,
Like sometimes you just want to like physically, yeah, just
like land the couch and snuggle some and you know,
like my cats are great, but I can't force them

(20:12):
to stay there like I could a human being.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
That's coming out.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, So that's what I think of when I think
of that. You know that, because Harry's never really had
that kind of comfort before. I mean, he and Choe
barely held hands the they yeah, I guess they kissed yeah,
but I think this is Harry's finding a new kind
of comfort in that physicality with Jenny, even if it is,

(20:41):
you know, just sitting there and sharing space with somebody,
because that's it, you know. Yeah, that's a very different
kind of of comfort in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
Well, they I feel like they share a similar type
of humor to which my husband and I are complete opposites. Like,
he is very dry and I'm more of like the
dad humor type because that's the way my dad was
and I grew up with that, so I thought that
was funny. But his dad is like that. His dad

(21:15):
is like minea anyway. But Harry and Jenny, I think
kind of share a humor or. At least she appreciates
his humor. I appreciate my husband's humor, even though sometimes
he has to explain it to me because I'm stupid.
But in this chapter, Harry and Ron both like they're
both trying to bring humor to the situation because of

(21:38):
course it's a funeral and it's everybody's sad. So first
Harry says they're talking about floor, and Jenny's like, well,
I guess he's going to marry her after all, and
Harry goes, well, you know she's ugly though, but you
know she's probably good for him, and then she laughs,

(21:59):
She actually geld and it says she giggles. And later
Ron says, when they're talking about Eileen Prince uh Snape's mother,
he said, oh, I thought she wasn't much of a looker.
She completely ignores him and does not laugh at that. Yeah, so,

(22:22):
why why do you think that is that Jenny laughs
at Harry's joke, her Miami completely ignores Ron, but they
both do like a woman deprecation type joke.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, so I don't I'm not convinced that Ron's was
supposed to be a joke. I think that we as
a reader taking as a joke and it is what
it is. But Harry's is very clearly a joke because
they're talking about for her, they've had they've had they've
had discussions about her in general. Well, Flur's beauty has

(23:01):
been brought up in the past, all these kinds of things.
We know, we know that there is at least some
history there. And then whenever they all kind of like
have begun to realize, well, this is happening, there's something
we could do about it they're accepting Flur. Harry doesn't
give Flur a compliment, but just says like, hey, she's

(23:21):
not that bad once she gets to know her or whatever,
she's not that bad. And then because the elephant in
the room is that Flur is beautiful, you know. I mean,
it's literally like having a discussion with my wife about
about a woman that is beautiful or whatever, and then
I compliment her. It would be like I looked at

(23:42):
her and be like, but at least she's not my
type or whatever like that, Like it's that kind of thing,
and I think Jenny understands that. I think that Jenny
is like, Okay, he's trying to say face from giving
a compliment to Flur in front of me, and then
if you just take it from Ron's side, there's no
real reason to do that, I guess, And so I

(24:03):
think hermione is viewing that is just a mean spirited
thing to say, and that's why she hasn't laugh at it.
I think I think Harry kind of catches himself complimenting
another woman in front of Jenny and it's like, but
she's ugly when obviously she's not.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
I think I'm a big fan of being able to
joke about almost anything, but context and delivery are important,
you know. And I think in those two moments, you know,
one is done when they're not talking about something serious.
You know, it's something lighthearted and fun and happy, a marriage,
a wedding. And then I can almost view it as

(24:45):
Harry even not even meaning it when he says that
she's ugly, of just being like she's ugly though, you
know what I'm saying, Like like just kind of even
though sarcasm in a voice when he says the comment.
But then when Ron says it, it's when they're talking
about a murderer and his mother, and you know, it's
like and I'm sure there probably wasn't charm or wit

(25:05):
in his voice, but just like that brutish Ron vocabulary
when he says it.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, And it's funny. I'm trying to think, I'm trying
to think of like people. Okay, I'm not going to
any but like it is funny to call someone that
is beautiful they're ugly though, but like there's a good
chance that Aileen Prince wasn't very attractive, and you call

(25:33):
it an ugly person ugly, it's mean if you call it
pretty person ugly.

Speaker 4 (25:38):
I mean that's a part of bullying, though, I mean
bringing out all the insecurities and like negative things that
you notice about someone else. So that was I mean,
that was kind of a douchey move.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Ron would love to be Ron would be a bully
if he hadn't been bully his brothers.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
He grew up with it, He's familiar with it.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I mean, the biggest difference here is the sense of
humors between Genny and Hermione. Yes, the comments are similar,
one of them is meaner spirited, but Ron is doing
that purely to try to get a react, that same
reaction out of Hermione that Harry got out of Jenny,
and that's just never gonna happen because Hermione doesn't have
that sense of no humor. She is much more stoic

(26:28):
and I mean, yeah, also, Ginny and Harry are just
lighter hearted people in general, I think, especially because we
talk so much about how Ginny is like friend George,
like that is a that is a friend George joke.
That is a friend George joke, like TM, patented whatever.

(26:49):
So I think I think you know that that makes
a difference too. Is the sense of humors of the
people who the joke are intended.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Four.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I mean they are still misogynistic jokes, both of them,
whether they're funny or not, no matter how we're meant
to take them, still funny.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
I think.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
I think it's still funny too. And Floor, if Floor
was in the room or nearby and heard that, she
she'd probably laugh too, because I think she's a little
less serious than you know, she's seen it.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
One of the best lines of the series is her saying,
I'm beautiful enough for the both.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Brilliant. And that's in this chapter, right, yeah, the one
before it. Oh yeah, because we hear you know, Bill
has been being treated by Madame Pomfrey and he is
now aware wolfish.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
So I almost as remember.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Doesn't Remas actually say that, doesn't Rema say that he'll
have wolfish.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
But so there's a whole line talking about the you know,
the hospital wing, and Neville's been discharged. Bill remained under
Madame Pomfrey's care. His scars were as bad as ever.
In truth, he now bore a distinct resemblance to Mattie Moody,
though thankfully with both eyes and legs, but in personality
he seemed just the same as ever. All that appeared
to have changed was that he now had a great

(28:23):
liking for very rare steaks.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
Come on, they Ooks anyway.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
You know, I mean, okay, fine, silly plot, I mean, yes,
I guess that's one of those little interjected moments of
humor here, right.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
I do like the call out though, that he looks
a lot like matt I because in the movie those
actors are father and son, the one that plays matt
I and the one that plays Bill.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Did you know that? Cat?

Speaker 4 (28:56):
I knew that, but I didn't put that together here?

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Well, Josh, I assumed you didn't know that because I did.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Oh, that's right, you're not a movie guy.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Not a movie guy.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
What that was such a good, like put it together moment?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
One of my favorite interview moments from when they opened
Diagon because Domina Gleason was there, who plays who plays Bill,
and he was talking about how he took the Hogwarts
Express back and I forget which direction. It's been years
since I've been to the park, but he was like
sitting there and when when matt I show up, he goes, Hi, Dad.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Like I just had I had a question it is.
It's a little bit earlier in the in the chapter
whenever Madame Maxine shows up, it says that it says
that she like falls into the Haggard's arms. Is that
is that from affection or is that for like comfort

(29:52):
or both?

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Like?

Speaker 2 (29:53):
I don't know what their relationship is anymore.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I thought they'd like broken up, right, See were
they ever together, Catherine? I mean they like travel, you know.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
A man and a woman going on a long trip
together through Europe, even if you don't like each other.
I don't know how some things don't happen.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
It says that she descended the carriage steps and threw
herself into the waiting Haggard's arms.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
I think maybe it's all of the I think it's
a variety of emotions.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
I think she likes the attention because like, she does
have an affinity for Dumbledore. I mean she she did,
she respected I dare say that she loved Dumbledore as
a as a colleague at least, So I do think
that she's upset. It's just I don't know. I mean,
to be fair, I guess Haggards are only ones that
that could support her, the only one.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
That could.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, you really couldn't quote unquote fall into somebody else's arms.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, so I thought it was nice to kind of
see because we don't see them together or have any
interactions since we're told about them at the beginning of order,
or at least whenever Hagrid gets back. I guess it's
kind of the middle of order when he gets back.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
So you already brought up Aileen Prince, but the trio
here is jinny with them.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
During this chapter. I think yes.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, in this moment when they're talking about Snape, No,
I don't think so either.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
No, because she let she leaves the dormitory and then
that's when they start talking.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
About Hermione looks at them with the most Hermione look ever,
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Hermione is to look yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
So Harry asks her if she found those, if she
found R.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
A B.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Or if she found R. A B And the two
people that she mentioned. I was like, I wonder if
there's anything about them, and I look them up on
the Harry Potter Wiki. They're just names. There's nothing.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Usually there's like a fun little side thing.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
But two they invented the the booger picking charmers, you know,
I don't know, just something dumb, but some don't.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
So they're talking about, Yes, the horror Crux is, but
Snape gets a lot of airtime here as well. And
there's this line that made me think it's maybe a
hint to the reader, which maybe it's not, but maybe
it's very clever if it is, you know, the author
can about it. The line says, they won't find Snape

(32:32):
till they find Voldemore, and seeing as they've never managed
to do that in all this time, and I just thought,
what a hint as to maybe what's to come in
the next book, with Snape being back at Hogwarts guard

(32:52):
unknowingly guarding a horre crux, and I don't know, it
just felt like one of those overt, covertly written hints, a.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Little slipped in there. Yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
I could see that she likes to do that from
time to time.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Does does Snape have knowledge of the horse cruxes? No?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
No, no, nope, that's.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Right because number Doore wouldn't even tell him.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
He can't put all of his eggs in the basket
that hangs on the arm of voldemorton.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
That he pretty much says exactly. That doesn't error. Were
you quoting him?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, I was quoting him. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Is it interesting that he that Voldemort doesn't trust his
number one man with that information?

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Well, he didn't trust anybody with it, so it didn't
seem too much like a knock against Snape, but it is.
You know, it's sad for Voldemort. He got no friends,
he can't.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
He just felt near the end, you know, the near
the end, and all you know two three of them
have already been destroyed, Like okay, you're really on my team,
like we need Okay, there's there's four more. Yeah, yeah,
there's four more. There's four more. So here's where they are,
and I'm gonna need Joe Hail. I must send Malfoy

(34:11):
over there, and I must send you over there, and
y'all are gonna double protect and kill everybody like I
would feel like that would be the thing to do
near the end.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Well, that's the problem with Baltimore is that he, like Dumbledore,
even says like Harry, there will be people death theaters
will say that they're the in his confidence, that they're
his closest friend. Don't believe any of them. Baltimore is
like Solo dolo. It's just him. He doesn't trust anybody,
and if it's like Baltimore wouldn't feel powerful if he
needed somebody else's help. It's all about him doing it right.

Speaker 5 (34:44):
Y'all discussed on a recent episode that that the Dumbledore said,
that is the one thing that you have that he doesn't,
and that is why you're gonna win, because you have
the people that you.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Can rely on and stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (34:58):
It was in.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Where Nibel comes through the portal. I think, oh, yeah,
it was when that was said.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Well and too, I mean think about Bellatrix. He never
told her what that was. He just said, can you
put this in your vault for me? Which I supposedly
made a baby together? So hey, I did word. I
did use the word supposedly like in the.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Beginning, like I could get that, like you know, we
did she that's all she is to him is maybe
just like the piece of side piece. Yeah, but then
I get that at the beginning when he didn't tell her.
But then after it's destroyed, you got those like for real,
rat edizes like her that I would I would trust

(35:41):
because obviously she's a rattered like legit.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
So I don't know, but you, my dear, are not
a sociopath.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
You were not Hitler, I mean.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Confirmed.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
No one thought Hitler was Hitler until Hitler.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Oh damn, you're going there. Okay. So so Harry uh
mentions here that he keeps dreaming about the hork Cruxes,
the four Horkprexes that are left right. And I wanted
to bring this up because you know, we've been talking
a lot about some really cool theories recently, not just

(36:22):
in the last thirteen years, but actually recently. There was
a really great theory we brought up on a recent
episode that Harry doesn't actually remember his parents' death at all,
that the memory that he has is actually Lord Voldemort's sile,
which is like, it's so good, it's and I don't
know how. I feel like that's a new theory and

(36:43):
I don't know how. Maybe somebody had brought it up
before and I never heard it. But anyway, so when
we think about dreaming, especially coming off of Order the Phoenix,
when you think about dreaming and how their minds really meld,
is Harry the only one that is obsessing over the
hor cruxes? There is is there any bleed here between

(37:03):
voldemor so the quote here, This mantra seemed to pulse
through Harry's mind as he fell asleep at night, and
his dreams were thick with cups, lockets, and mysterious objects
that he could not quite reach, though Dumbledore helpfully offered
Harry a rope ladder that turned to snakes the moment
he began to climb. And I feel like some of

(37:23):
I mean, Voldemor still Nighini is not a horn crux yet,
so he could still be looking for another object to
make into a hor crux.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
I'm glad you said that last part because for the
most of it I didn't think so, because Voltimore seems
so secure. You know, whenever he finds out that they
are destroying Horkcrux is in the next book, he is
utterly shocked. He's like, how does the boy know our secret?
And he can't believe it. But I like what you
said there at the end of he's still looking for
another one, So yeah, perhaps he could be obsessing over them.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, although now I'm questioning because Josh's face when I
said Nick crookshit issue Crooks. Yeah, she's not right.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
I thought I thought that Frank Bryce's death.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Oh yeah, you're right, Yeah, you're right. Okay, but that
doesn't mean he's still not looking for one, because he's
he's probably very aware of the fact that living creatures
do not make good hor cruxes.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah, because I I think he wants to have seven,
like and Dumbledore even calls that out. He doesn't know
that he has seven. He wants to have seven because,
as Dumbledore says, it's a magical number. That's it's a
one of like completion, and he would desire that.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Well, he wants he wants to have six. He wants
to have seven pieces of his soul. Yeah, six, six,
and he would be he would be the seventh. That's
that's the problem with Harry. He became a horre crux
that was never meant to be. So there are pieces
of Yeah, but going back to the Neguinea piece, there

(39:02):
is a case to be made that but Tilda bag
shots was used to make Neghinia into a horse rux.
But it's more likely Frank Brice, No, I.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Think you're right. I think I'm pretty confident it's confirmed.
Frank Bryce. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah. So as far as far as their their minds
coming together on like dreaming about horror cruxes, and things.
I think that it's really unlikely that this is a
baltimort dream happening, because, like it is, Harry reciting the
Locke at the cup, the snake, something of Gryffindor's or
raven claws. And I think that if their minds were

(39:39):
melting together here, Baltimore would have known way before he
actually finds out in Deathly Hallows that they're hunting horkruxes.
Because if if Baltimore knows that this dream is happening,
then he would he would know, Okay, they know about
these hork cruxes at least.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
No, You're right, but I think the thought would be
not that this is Harry's dream, it's Voldemort's subconscious and
Harry's getting a peek at it. So it's not that
Harry's giving Baltimore information, but he's stealing information from Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
The only issue with that, Barry is that in the
next paragraph, when Harry's where the narration is describing the dream,
it says viz Montras seemed to pull through Harry's mind
as he fell asleep at not his dream were thick
with cups lockets. The issue at the next line, it
was says cups. Locket's have been mysterious objects. If it
were Baltimore's dream that Harry was looking at the self conscious,

(40:35):
it wouldn't be a mysterious object.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yeah, and the fact that Harry is falling asleep with
it on his mind suggests that it's his dream. He's
the originator.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, Baltimore is very careful now to do acclemency to
keep Harry out of his mind. There's no reason for
Baltimore to try to get in Harry's mind right now.
He Baltimore thinks that he is far and away one
because Dumbledore is dead. Yeah, it only becomes an issue

(41:07):
whenever he can't kill Harry and deathly hallows and then
finds out that Harry is after horror cruxes. Baltimore does
not care what's happening with Harry right now, so there's
no reason for their minds to go back and forth.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
I did think that have any of you guys ever
seen Game of Thrones? So good in that show, for
any of the listeners that have seen it, one of
the characters, Aria Stark, before she goes to bed every night,
she recites her kill list people that she wants to kill,
and it's like it's called her prayer and she says

(41:43):
their names over and over again to fall asleep. And
that's what this made me think of when Harry's falling
asleep reciting the horse cruxes to himself.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Not dissimilar. He does hope to quote unquote feel them.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yes, it reminds her of her mission and she will
keeps her focusing her and a lot of times she
adds someone to it every night.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Wow, what are those things that you're supposed to, like
say in the mirrors?

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, that poor kid. Poor supposed to be about yourself, Harry,
not about.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
I am better than everyone else, but I am.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
The chosen one hermione like.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
You know, she just needs to be right and it
just listen as someone who also needs to be right.
I understand. But my girl, this says not the moment
you know I was right about.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
I mean, do you remember that one time?

Speaker 3 (42:55):
It absolutely is? I love it. I like this moment
because to me, like I've always read this, Like I said,
I usually listen to it, and so I have an
impression of how things come off because of listening. But
I was actually eyes to the page, looking at it,
and my interpretation of this moment was a lot different

(43:17):
without like the Jim Dale narration of Hermione's voice and instead,
I especially at the end when you know when she
starts talking quietly, it's rather than to me, rather than
Hermione coming off as the know it all in this moment,
it seems somewhat more like an earnest attempt to share
information with Harry. Obviously, she could have phrased it better

(43:41):
like going to I was right. I don't like that party,
but I do think it was helpful information for Harry
to know.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yes, of course, but that she's a kid. I mean,
this is just her ravenclaw being like see here it
is Yeah, I mean you're right, it was deaf. Definitely
an earnest attempt. That's a that's a great way to
put it, for her to try to share the information,
but her lack of tax continually.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Somebody who makes fun of their lack of tax, Yeah, yeah, true.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
I mean it's comical, of course, and here we are
laughing about it.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Is it information that's needed? Though, Like Barry you said that, like,
I agree, it's her money trying to give information. I
do also think that it's her money trying to be
like look at how bright I am.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
She's starting the conversation to like for me, I read
it as her Okay, so this is what I want
to talk to you about. You remember that when we
were talking about this book, I that I was kind
of right about Yeah, we know, freaking rub it in again,
why don't you. But like, I think that was her

(44:51):
control to the rest of the information that she was
going to say. I don't know one hundred that it well,
I mean, it was her rubbing it in, but then
at same time, like it was her bringing it up
from her point of view, like you know.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Yeah, I think it's good for Harry to know as
much as he can about Snape. Given what just happened.
Snape's now a murderer. We need more information about him,
and so to reveal Snape's parentage I think is important.
The fact that he is a half blood is probably
relevant information. So I could see it as being important

(45:30):
for him to know. And then at the end of
the conversation, when he's going on about calling Snape evil,
I love Hermond. He saying evil is a strong word,
but it says she says it quietly, and again it's
almost as if she's asking not telling Harry that he's wrong,
but just asking him to genuinely consider more like giving

(45:52):
more context to snape and more context to people. It's
it's also harkens back to serious saying the world's not
divided into death and good guys. Right, But just that
word evil is a strong word. It's a call to
consider there and so absolutely the wrong way to bring
up all this, but I do think it seemed it seemed.

Speaker 4 (46:11):
Relevant in that same conversation when they're talking about rab
and in reference to Hermione's information that she's bringing up
about it. I know that there are several several instances
in this chapter and in this book altogether, where she's
very pointedly showing the maturation like Seamus sind up to

(46:35):
his mom. And here we have Harry the whole idea
that he his mindset is evolving, because it says here
he didn't feel excited, curious, or burning to get to
the bottom of the mystery any longer. He simply felt
resolved to do what had to be done. And like

(46:57):
I get that, Like as I was, I'd say maybe
high school and my undergrad like I loved research, I
loved like oh, I loved jumping in. I loved going
the extra mile, and that's kind of why I thought
I was a raven claw. But by the time I
got to my master's and then I got to my
specialist degree, I was like, I just have to get

(47:20):
this done, Like I don't want to do any extra anymore.
I met, I guess I'm not a raven claw because
this is exhausting. But then again, at that time, I
had responsibilities, adult responsibilities. I was married, I had three dogs,
and then four dogs, and then I had a full

(47:40):
time teaching job, and then after that to pay for
my master's degree, I got two other part time jobs
and I was a choir director at a church, and
so school then was exhausting to me because it was
something I had to do to get a raise and
I wanted to do. But then by the time I

(48:02):
got to that third degree, it was like, I don't
want to do this anymore. I just have to finish it.
And I think that's a huge maturation that Harry's got
going on, which is sad but also part of life,
you know.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, Well, it's a beautiful circle from his obsession with
Malfoy at the beginning of the book, Oh my.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
Gosh, agreed.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, I love that call out because I remember when
I was in the final semester of my master's program.
I had just gotten married, and it was full time work,
full time school, and a part time job and finally
living with another person, and I thought, if I had
to do this again, I wouldn't like if I had
to do another full time semester, I could not do it.

(48:49):
And so, yeah, let's get to the point, let's get
this over with. Let's do what needs to be done,
and only that because I don't have enough capacity or
even desire for the other things at the moment. Everything's
been sucked up because of what needs to be done is.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
So important exactly.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Yeah, you get it.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah, I'm trying to remember. So with what you just said, Kat,
of his obsession with Malfoy, I went back and listened
to your first discussion on this from one forty three
or whichever episode it was, and I think it was
that episode that one of y'all made the comment of

(49:27):
how it's interesting that the way people viewed Harry at
the beginning of this book might have been different because
of how sure he was about serious being at the
order or sorry being at the ministry and maybe not
trusting him as much anymore. So whenever he says it's
definitely Malfoy, nobody believes him. And that kind of now

(49:51):
that everybody was wrong again about what Harry thought, it
might affect how they view him going forward, like a
complete reversal of his instincts opinion of them.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah. I mean, to so many he was the boy
who continually cried wolf, especially when it came to Snape
and Malfoy and then boom. You know, he was wrong
those other times, but he's right.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
He didn't unlike Hermione, he did not go I was right,
you know.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah, yeah, he throw it back in their face.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
True. Well, I mean, and you even you even see
that with with Dumbledore's reversal of that too, where Dumbledore
wouldn't trust Harry with the information that he needed throughout
his life in the Wizarding World up until up until
his death. Honestly, the first time that Dumbledore really started
trusting Harry comes at half flood Prince whenever he's giving

(50:46):
him all this information and I would love to see
and and and we'll talk about it a little bit later,
but Harry even talks about how much more he wished
that he had from Dumbledore, and you know what could
have been if he hadn't died, And Dumbledore is now,
even in his death, trying to tell the Order of

(51:06):
the Phoenix. You have to trust Harry. Harry's He's nearly
always right. He tells Remus and Kingsley that, and you
know they use it as a I guess as their
their test question for each other, things like that. But
it's the Wobbles, So I mean, you see, uh, not

(51:31):
only are you seeing that in the trio, but Dumbledore's
thoughts of Harry have changed drastically over the last two books.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Well, and since you brought up Dumbledore, we'll go on
to my next point here was which is there anything, anything,
aside from the truth, that Dumbledore could have told Harry
about Snape to earn his trust? I mean, Snape is
so biased against Snape, very very valid reasons, Like I

(52:02):
am not invalidating Harry's dislike of Snape because Snape also
dislikes Harry. It doesn't matter what he's secretly doing. He
doesn't like the kid. Is there anything Dumbledore could have
told him to soften that?

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Even the littlest I think I don't think he even
wanted to, because I think he needed Harry to even
to also be convinced that Snape was evil when this
turn came. But if I'm just just to answer the question,
I'm thinking maybe explaining what happened without using names, you know,
without saying this person died. But it's like Voldemort killed

(52:43):
somebody that meant a lot to Snape, and so he's
on our side, like maybe something like that.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
But I don't know other than that, Yeah, I mean
I don't think so twist the truth. Yeah, yeah, I
mean no, he wouldn't. But that's not the question.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Good.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
He wouldn't even come that close to the truth.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
I mean he could have been like like when he
said to change the names, he could have you.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Know, Millie was killed by Doldemort.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
There's this story I want to tell you. Lay down
and took your covers up to your chin. Once upon
a time, there was this boy who really loved this girl,
and then this bad man came along and I was like,
and then she died. And then for the rest of
his life he agreed and he really hates her son,

(53:36):
our daughter, excuse me daughter.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
For the rest of his life, he had a stalker
obsession and.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
He agreed to go after this bad guy but on
the d L and no one knows.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Yeah, I mean no, Catherine, he wouldn't. But it's fun
to pretend to the double Doore. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
There's a fan fake. I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Always a fan thic. I don't know. I mean even
even the I know why you asked the question the
way that you did, Cat, but it's the premise is
just so screwy. Where you go, Hey, how can you
have someone trust you without telling them the truth? You know?

Speaker 1 (54:18):
So it's to get you to trust me.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Listen, I'm a Dumbledore defender, but that does sound like
a Dumbledore idea.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
It's good that true nature.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
I listen. I was talking to somebody about this the
other day of like they were bashing Dumbledore hard and
I was like, listen, is he manipulative? Yes, however it
is for like the literal best motive you could have
to save the world.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
To murder, to murder a teenager the world.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
He knew he'd come back. She had a suspicion.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Yeah, he kind of knew and hoped down deep. I
wanted to jump back for a second to just the
cleverness of Hermione because y'all were talking about Dumbledore anyway.
So but good grief, like how she put the pieces
of the book of Snake being the half blood Prince

(55:19):
and him calling himself that because his mother was Eileen
Prince half a prince because she married a muggle. And
then she found that out via an announcement and a
tiny step in of a newspaper article and then like
la da all without Google blows my mind, like cause

(55:44):
you know, she had to physically go through the newspaper
articles of that time and how many newspaper articles were
there around that time, like to find out that information.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
It makes me think of, oh, it was like either
Socrates or Aristotle, who like we have writings of how
upset he was when they started like producing books and
writing because he goes, it's going to get people to
stop remembering things, you know, So like the cry that
we have when phones come out on the internet, it's
going to get people to stop remembering things. People have

(56:21):
always thought that. But the idea that without a phone
and stuff, perhaps that makes Hermione's brain even more able
to do things like this.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
It's incredible to me. I mean, I know it's a
human being making up the fact that a human being
put these pieces together. However, it's pretty incredible that she
thought to have her put it to get.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
I mean, see Catherine, this hearkening back to your story
about not enjoying extended research. Some people like that. I
particularly am like somewhere in the middle. I'm like you,
I like it up to a point that I'm likeugh,
just tell me. But Hermione, her her raven claws side
is like needling on the small points and needing to

(57:11):
be right. Let's let's be fair. I mean, she needs
to be right. She needs to have the information to
back up her claim. So she was gonna stop at
nothing to figure out who the flood Prince was. And
it just just sort of the whole Snape connection admittedly
like fell in her lap a little bit.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
To be fair, Yeah, it certainly did. I do like
the I do like the commonality between Voltimore and Snape.
Here though, where you know, we're told from Baltimore. The
reason he wants he goes by Lord Baltimore now is
that he doesn't like his He doesn't like his name.
He doesn't like Tom Riddle. He says that it's a

(57:53):
filthy it's a common name. He always refers to his
dad as like a filthy muggle all that, all these
kinds of things. So for somebody like Snape that also
has a poor relationship with his father, uh, you know,
we're told in the in the Prince's Tale, I think
it's in those or it may be in the in

(58:13):
the pen Seves the first pen See scene. Anyway, we're
told about a hookdose man yelling at a screaming at
a cowering woman in a in a corner, and then
small black haired boy you know, is crying. So that's
Snape and his father. And you know he's always yelling
at his mama, that kind of stuff. So coming up

(58:34):
with a moniker to get away from your muggle father
is is something that's very unique to these two. And
obviously Snape's moniker didn't catch on. I don't think anyone
else ever called him half blood prints, but it is.
I don't know, it's a it's a fun little put

(58:56):
together for him.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
She'd be like, your dumb no, that's that's there.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Molly wobbles well.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
And as they're talking about the book, Ron has s
lyon and they talk about this for a while. Quote,
I still don't get why he, meaning Snape, didn't turn
you in for using that book. He must have known
where you were getting it all from. And I just thought,
great point, Ronald. But also Hermione goes on to like

(59:30):
talk about why Snape didn't use that he didn't want
to be associated with it. As we were just discussing
her does her explanation, Does her belief here make sense
to you folks like that Snape because we just talked
about how he made it up for himself because he
didn't like his family, didn't like all that stuff, but

(59:50):
then he didn't want to be associated with the book.
I just I felt like there was a disconnect between
Snape's intention and Hermione's belief here. Of course, Hermione has
no idea what Snap intended, But what do you all think?

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yeah, I don't think he has anything to do with
Snape wanting to not be associated with the book. I
just don't. I don't think that he could put it.
I don't think that he could he had like real
evidence of it. I reckon it's the best way to
put it. The only real evidence is that Harry is
doing a good job in potions, and the only reason

(01:00:26):
that he's doing a good job in potions is because
he's the only one using the real potion, right, like
the real potion instructions. Because as we talked about before,
Snape never uses a textbook in his classes. He writes
out everything on chalkboard. He's not using advanced postion making
for his classes. So now if Slughorn is using advanced

(01:00:49):
potion making, the students will never make the correct potion,
or at least one that is as potent that is
what the Half Blood Prince book would make. So that's
the only way. But he's not in the class. He's
only hearing how good Harry is doing. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
He knows Harry has the book because of sept.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Yeah, and he specifically asks for it the book in
that moment.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, well he asked for it. So like he he
performs legitillimbuns on Harry after the septem cempra. All he sees,
doesn't isn't all the book the book? Yeah, but it's
not opened up. He can't see the but but but
the spell itself is a Snape invention, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Or I think it was just in vogue at the time.
I do think he invented it all the time. Yeah,
that's the dexter version of Harry Potter anyway, Why if.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
It reminds Snape probably of the time he had with
Lily and that was like the best time of his life.
He's created this alter ego kind of sort of in
this book. Why wouldn't he keep that for himself? Why
would that be in the bottom of a drawer somewhere.
If he loves her so much and he revels in

(01:02:18):
that time, why wouldn't it be stuck in the closet.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
See, I don't even think it has to do with
like the Lily connection. Well, I've never thought about that
piece of it, at least, Like it doesn't make any
sense for this book to be in the cupboard as
all that he.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
Has all of this stuff memorized. But wouldn't you have
that in your personal collection of books because we know
he has an office.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Yeah, I can see why it was left there to
begin with, because it was a school textbook and not
like he didn't own it. It belonged to the school
and he doodled in it. It's one of the extra
books that's part of the school. However, when he becomes
a professor, I don't see a reason for leaving that
in there like replacing it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Fact, yeah, just a new one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Also, yeah, Snape could just steal the book or keep
it for himself.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Maybe he was just like things about that time hurts
him so much because that's when he you know, called
lilya mudblood and lost her. So perhaps he was like, yeah,
I don't maybe he is detaching himself a little bit from.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
That, threw it in the closet.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Yeah, I don't want to see that anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:03:34):
Yeah, I could see it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
But also he was the potion's master, so it was
in his classroom. It wasn't like he forgot it somewhere.
It was close by. For all that, this is the
first year that he is not like overseeing that book.
So for years he's not letting other students get that book.
It's sitting there. So perhaps like he knew it was

(01:03:55):
there the whole time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
And I'm remembering correctly that when they walk into Potions
in sixth year, they say they say something like the
space that used to be occupied by Snape, Right, It's like,
that's still not Snape space, that's Slughorn the space now correct, Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
And slug Horn Hermione's one of her reasoning of him
not seeing it was because Slughorn would have recognized his
writing at once. The heck.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
So we have recently discussed this in other episodes, and
I'm sure it has been discussed at nauseum. But if
freaking slug Horn would have recognized Snape's handwriting, what intarnation
didn't the brightest witch of her age recognize it every

(01:04:45):
freaking day? I mean, I know, I'm sorry. I know
it's been brought up a by jillion times, but it's
specifically brought up here that Slughorn would recognize it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Yeah, I think perhaps Hermione didn't because she did bring
an analytical mind when looking at the book. She was
so vehemently against it and hated it so much, so
perhaps she wasn't thinking about it rationally when she would
examine the book. It was just very much, Harry, that's
a dumb book, get it out of here, so her
emotions kind of took over insteady.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
You know what, though, I agree that that's quite plausible,
especially because Hermione again, when she has to be right
and she's vehemently again set her mind on something, she'll
ignore some of the other facts. I'm just trying to
think of in like real life examples, if I were
to see a piece of paper with random handwriting on it,

(01:05:40):
I would immediately go through and think about all the
handwriting that I know to try and see if, like,
this is the handwriting of someone in my circle.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Yeah. But when it's in like a textbook, I don't
know if it's my Like if I see something laying
around my house or at my church or wherever, I'm like,
there's there's a chance that it's a higher probability that
it's by somebody I know. If it's in a random
textbook that's fifty years old, I don't know if that
would trigger in my mind to think, who do I
know that writes like this? See?

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
I think it would, especially because Chamber is the opposite
book from this book. They've already dealt with a situation
where there's random handwriting in a book. Granted, Harry kept
that to himself for a long time. I think Hermione
would have should have had a more critical and I

(01:06:35):
do think it's implausible that she wouldn't have recognized that
it's in the potions classroom at Hogwarts.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
It would have just subconsciously triggered in her any.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Logical person, and we know Hermione's logical, but any logical
person would think about the people in that castle over
the last fifty years. Yeah, like they're going to recognize
mcgonagall's handwriting if it's on something, why not a snake?

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
But also thought, I don't write the same way I
did when I was in high school.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Yeah, however, I think it is the same handwriting, because
when they say Slughorn would have recognized it, that's like
an admission of saying, oh, it does look like look
at that. So I think that's the text saying that
it does look the same.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Yeah. Yeah, Hermione is saying that Slughorn would have recognized
the handwriting at once whenever I don't have any indication
that he would. I don't know why Hermione. If Hermione
doesn't recognize the handwriting, why would she think that Slughorn would.
So I feel like, this is Hermione putting, well, if

(01:07:39):
it's so obvious, why wouldn't why wouldn't you recognize it?
And I'm like, why would slug Horn? That doesn't care.
Slughorn is just looking for reasons for Harry to be
exceptional and that's fine. He doesn't care what's in the book.
There is also the only thing I'll say about handwriting, too,

(01:08:00):
is that these are notes that are being sprawled in
the margins of pages. So the handwriting does change if
you're trying to do it small. The other thing, too,
is that there is a potential that here's what I
would here, here's what I would do if anyone would
ever like some evidence for the future. If I knew

(01:08:24):
that there was a book out there that had all
my handwriting in it, from all the knowledge that I
had ever gotten, and I was teaching in the school,
and I was using that same knowledge on boards, and
I had magic, I would do. I would like magically
put the instructions on the board with the handwriting. Wouldn't
look the same, I guess I would.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
I would petition to rewrite the book or have an
updated edition.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
That's me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Yeah, you would, because because you want to share knowledge
and and that's and that's wonderful. Snape doesn't want to
do that because Snape wants Snape wants students to have
the same cleverness that he did. If you want to
be a good posioneer, put the work into it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Yeah, I'd never considered, like, if Snape's the potion's master,
why didn't he have it updated if he knew that
it was a way to do it inaccurate.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
I think I said this on a recent episode. But
Snape could have been making bank if he was a writer.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Yes you did, I'll have lots of money to Scholastic.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
But Snape's currency is the information and the knowledge. It's
not it's not in the in the galleons that he
could make. And he's also he does not value. He
doesn't value.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
No, you're right, he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
Yeah. I just picture like, you know how authors or
little intros into some books might have a dedication or
an explanation or and his whole thing is just his
opening monologue of like, if you're not a bunch of
dund our heads, you might be able to grasp the subject.
It's like the opening page of the book.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
It just reminds me of the Snoop Dogg speech where
he's like, and finally, I want to thank myself.

Speaker 6 (01:10:26):
Yeah, oh oh gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Need to be reading my book.

Speaker 6 (01:10:31):
Yes, perfect, this book is dedicated to me. That's right,
that's right. No one else deserves it as much as
I do. So moving forward in the story, so we
see that Harry's thinking things to himself. He's alone now, right,
he's home or not home, but he's back in his dorm.

(01:10:51):
He's alone now, and it's smart, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
And we see him just thinking about Malfoy in the
situation with him, and again another moment of maturation that
the author pointedly points out to say that he has
the tiniest drop of pity for Malfoy, and his maturation
to me has jumped leaps and bounds, obviously from the

(01:11:17):
beginning of this book. But just as is he sixteen
or seventeen right now?

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Or do we know sixteen?

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Thank you? I put a question mark on that because
I wasn't entirely sure. But for a sixteen year old
to be able to see that Malfoy has gotten himself
in over his head, but also know and understand, like
deep down he was not capable of killing Doubledore himself,
I think that self awareness. To be able to see

(01:11:47):
that in someone that you literally hate with every fiber
of your being, and you've spent your entire last five
almost six years hating and loathing, that is incredibly rare
at sixteen years old. I mean, that's rare at thirty five.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Years old, it's rare in humanity.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
I think Harry has some of the highest emotional intelligence.
That's something that I'm always struck by when I read
these books, of how he considers how a sentence or
a phrase might come off to somebody given their situation.
And I think in this particular moment, you know, one
reason he's able to say like that he has pity
for Malfoy is like Harry knows what true evil is.

(01:12:33):
It's like I know what the real thing is and
I just see it. Yeah, it's not him, He's it's
almost like he wants to be. He's just a pretender.
He's I think he has an exact read on who
Draco is, somebody that is indoctrinated by their family. But
it's too and I don't want to use the word weed.

(01:12:54):
He's too you could say coward. But I also just
think he's Malfoy isn't truly wicked at heart. I guess
Harry said he thinks that depraved to do something like that. So, yeah,
I always love it because people always will comment on, man,
Harry is such an idiot. He didn't do this. He

(01:13:14):
didn't think about this in this moment, didn't ask this question.
But these are the kinds of moments that I think
his intelligence really shines through, and like you said, his maturity.

Speaker 4 (01:13:24):
Yeah, it's neat to see that. Right now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Malfoy is toughness and his bravado has always been a front. Yes,
he is and I'm using this word very strongly. Friends,
stereotypical Slytherin, yes, yeah, egotistical and thinks highly of himself

(01:13:49):
and you know, all those things, but so so many
people who are like that, and I think we could
all probably think of a person in our lives. It's
all projection, it always is. I mean people like that
project their insecurities onto others and say, hey you do that, well,

(01:14:11):
actually you're doing you're doing you know. So it's nice
that Harry and yes, all of his emotional intelligence, which
where did that come from? It's nice to see Harry
recognize that, and of course we get even more of that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
In Hallow's I like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Your point about Mouthwoyd projecting. I think like anytime I
give a sermon for like the big church instead of
just youth group, my pastor will always like review my
sermon with me, and he'll talk about the good things
and the bad things, and when he gets to the
bad things, he goes and please don't feel bad about this.

(01:14:54):
I spot it because I got it. I'm able to
tell this is what you were doing, that you were unprepared,
haired that you didn't like have enough information on this
section of your your sermon, or that you didn't thoroughly
explain this because I do that. And so when you
you call certain things out and people, uh, you're you're

(01:15:14):
more easily able to do it if it's something you
yourself also experience or have experienced.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Well, Harry starts to notice that people are arriving for
the funeral. They're down by the lake and their's chairs
set up all over, and uh, I think one of
the very first people he notices is or is Scrimjaw. No,
Scrimjaw is when they are.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
At the he's at breakfast at breakfast.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
You're right, he's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Taking the he's taking he's taking snake seat.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
I like to picture Scrimger just as Davy Jones from
Pirates walking around because it's Bill Nihey, so instead of regular.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Uh minister for magic, they both have that hair.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
Are you doing poor way. I don't remember. Why does
he have yellow eyes? Like is he jaundiced or like
he parts something like, I don't remember yellow eyes, he
has yellowish the yellowish.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Que or something like he has a liver failure, he's.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Got jaundice, he's seen a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Maybe he's smoking, but then that would be red though, right.
So I've always kind of viewed this as as trying
to play up the lion, like carved with strim door,
like he's he's always described as his hair looks like
a maine he he always has like a mane of
hair around him. I don't know. I always always viewed

(01:16:52):
it as just so like Mary, you were talking about,
like how you view scrim door. Whenever I hear scrim door,
I think of the mayor from the zoo, Tapia.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
That's a very good.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Whenever I hear scrims door, I see a lion walking.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
The yellow eyes are definitely like animalistic painting him in
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Yeah, that's that's that's where I think they're trying to
get there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Yeah, well, and Percy is there too.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
I'm sorry, imagine just the yellow eyes or just color contacts.
It's not Actually, he's like, I got to keep up
this look because ministry.

Speaker 4 (01:17:39):
So to be different from everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
Somebody called him a lion one time, and he was like,
I'm going to run with this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
He's teasing his.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
Hair before he goes out.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
I'd like to know what Catherine's nickname was in high school.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
I didn't have one unless people were.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Same girl, same same. I'm sorry, but Percy is at
the table and okay, listen, I'm gonna ask the questions
and I know the answer. It's because power of ministry
at Magic is job blah blah blah. But w TF
why is he even here with Scrimger Because he was

(01:18:23):
like Fudge's dude, right, like bow down, kiss his feet,
and also at the funeral of a man he doesn't
believe and has worked against for the last however many months.
He's probably starting to change his tune. Right, we're here,
we're at the where the end of Half Blood prints.

(01:18:44):
It's late June. It's not even a year later that
he comes back at the battle and you know the
whole you know whatever, But my dude, and I'm a
Percy apologist, like whatever, really, yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
It's very it's very well, I don't like them.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
I like the what you were making of. You know,
he was budgets guy, So why is he with Scrimshaw.
It's almost like when a new president comes in, clearing
out the cabinet and putting in a new one. And
especially if you're so concerned if like the argument is,
he's here because of optics. However, he should not be
here because of scrimjaw and his optics of like new ministry,

(01:19:27):
new power, we're stronger. But I guess it's yeah, yeah,
so that is odd to me.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Yeah, So with that being said, I would like to
view Dumbledore's funeral through the political limbs. So like this
seems like a very stately type of funeral. You know,
you have the ministry come and you have all these people,
you know. It For me, it feels very much like
a like a presidential funeral that we would have like

(01:19:54):
in the States, you know, And so this does seem
like a very man that's work funeral for many people
in the ministry you love, you love those. I gotta
get it at a funeral for work. But we know

(01:20:14):
that the ministry itself isn't a fan of Dumbledore. For
various reasons, especially under Fudge, Like towards the end of
Fudge's reign at least where there there's a power struggle
happening there, scrims Or and Dumbledore do not get along
because Dumbledore is not willing to go along with what

(01:20:37):
strim Door wants to do, and all those kind of things.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
Clarify because when you say the ministry, you're talking about
the establishment. So this is like the DNC doesn't like
Bernie Sanders. This is the competition you're making the establishment, Okay,
just to clarify.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Yeah, And so what really brings this up to me
is how happy is the establishment that Dumbledore is dead?

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
I that's an interesting question that could to me. I
think they would view Dumbledore almost as like the the
real douchey but incredible athletic player on the team. You know,
it's like we hate him, he is our best player, though,
It's like we want you at the game, but we

(01:21:25):
don't want to hang out with you after, you know.
I think that that's almost their view of him.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
I like that good analogy, Yeah, super good analogy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Well, and what's what's even well? I think could be
more fun about that analogy is if you look at
it as far as like, yes he is, he is
the most athletic person on the team, all these things,
but we can't get him to do anything that we
want him to do. Right, Like, I'm calling all these
plays and Dumbledore doesn't want to do any of them.

(01:21:55):
He's just out doing. But but that's the beauty of Dumbledore.
He never allowed him else to get into that position
where he had to fall in line with the power.
That's why he never went into the ministry.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
It's like, uh, I think the easiest one for anybody
that knows basketball, with five on five they're in basketball,
one person can win the game if he were to
just take it. And however, he's being a ballhog. He's
taking it. He owns it. Nobody else gets a chance
with the ball, you know. And so it's like we
hate that we don't really get to play, but we
also like that we win.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
And we're winning every game.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
This is great. Yeah, I'm not learning anything. In fact,
nobody's even looking at me winning, they're just looking at him.
But I can brag about winning later at least.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
But but see, I think I think that's I think
that's why then while the ministry would be happy with
Dumbledore's death is that they're not winning every game. They
the Ministry keeps getting kicked and kicked and kicked, and
they're just trying to play ketchup all the time, whether
it was with serious, couldn't find serious. All of a sudden,

(01:23:04):
he's here and now he's gone again.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
You slip through his fingers, through the work of Dumbledore,
and they know that kind of proof.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
All of a sudden Baltimore is in the Ministry building
and then he escapes. Dumbledore is there. Dumbledore's right the
whole time, after after Dumbledore had had been speaking out
against the establishment of Baltimore's back. You need to be prepared. No,
he's not, No, he's not. No, he's not. So I mean,
I don't blame Dumbledore for anything that he has done

(01:23:33):
to Bernie. Is a perfect example of this where the
d n C. Would the d NC be happy. Is
the DNC going to be happy when Bernie dies?

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
Yes, Harry, all these they don't take public transportation.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
I say, scrim Door respects Dumbledore more than more than
what Fudgs does.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Definitely, but.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
You still have people like Umbrage in the ministry.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
Yeah, you still have established I was almost like feeling
sympathy for scrim Jaw in this chapter, like during the
conversation with Harry, up until Harry reminded me of stuff
like that when Harry goes, do you still got what's
his face? Locked up? Stand locked up? And I was like, ah, yeah,
no sympathy because I get it, because I was like thinking, yeah,

(01:24:31):
it's not a good it's not a bad thing to
want to make your people happy, you know, to make
them feel safe. That in and of itself is not
a bad thing. But then Harry reminded me of the
ways he was doing it, and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
screw that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Yeah. So what really brought that up is like, we
know how many people are in the audience of this funeral,
and yes, it's sad, people are shedding tears, all this
kind of stuff, but there are people setting in that
audience just like there would be in a in a
in a state funeral in the United States or any country,
any any political any political death, any political funeral, where

(01:25:10):
there are people in the audience going this is good
for me. I'm glad that person's dead.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Uh So Harry starts to mentioning those people that are
at the funeral, he starts to sort of run down
the list, and the first talk about comedy, my friends,
the first line, one of the first lines. And some
people whom Harry merely knew by sight, such as the
barman of the Hogshead. You mean, the dude who looks
exactly like Albus Dumbledore.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
Like I did not get like bro it just me
talking about his emotional intelligence. And then who's that guy?

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Like, I'm sure that I don't know. It's hard to
speculate when and how the author decides to, you know,
reveal things or whatever. And and we think about, like,
so the Deluminator, for instance, you know, did she know

(01:26:05):
back in book one that the book things the Delominator
does in book seven were going to be a thing?
Who knows? We will never know the answer to.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
That, she would say, yes, I mean, of course, I did.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
I know that Dumbledore's familial reveal is meant to be
a part of Hallo's. But come on, like Harry knows
this guy by sight but doesn't recognize that he looks
just like Alvis Dumbledore. It just kills me every time.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
It's especially at the funeral when you're really thinking about him.
You know, like it's almost like you would have seen
him and thought, oh my gosh, he oh okay, no,
he's but why does he look like that? You know,
you've double taking and then asking why.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
It all depends on however Forces is like presenting himself though,
because like when he's at the Hogshead, he always has
like isn't his hair always his face like he can
barely see his eyes? He does always he does always
talk about how like his eyes he seemed, you know,
look very familiar or whatever. I think Aberforth is doing
a very good job of making sure no one knows

(01:27:14):
who he is. Now. The bigger, the bigger plot issue
is that no one in.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
Hogsmead knows put it together.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
Ever mentions that's Aberforce. Like we've been to hogs Meat
a lot. There's no way that Madame Ross Murder doesn't
say yeah over there, yeah, I al Was's brother at
the other bar.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
I mean people know who he is. But I think
this is one of those moments where Harry is just
what are the right words here? Small world? He's always
so focused on himself, he doesn't really think about when.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
He's in Hogsmead, he has like a goal usually like
he's very like something is going on, whether it's the
date with Choe or a Da Da meeting or something.
It's like he's there for a reason.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
I hastened to say self obsession, but that's sort of
what I'm getting at.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Yeah, I mean main carriacter syndrome.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
Yeah, yeah, he is the main character though, So maybe
maybe Aberforth, you know, has the man bun and maybe
he's wearing a hat and yeah, you know, I don't
know it right outside.

Speaker 3 (01:28:28):
Yeah, it might be also too, it might be like
shameful to mention him as Dumbledore's brother, given like all
the Goat stuff that's like people, you know, maybe it's
like they they hold Albus in such high esteem. You know,
it'd be like, I'm not gonna draw any real world illusions.
But you know, sometimes if a person, an amazing person,

(01:28:50):
has a sibling who has a very besmirched record, and
it's like we probably shouldn't even mention them together or
associate them, that might be really weird.

Speaker 4 (01:29:03):
This is really weird, really weird.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
Yeah, it's more fascinating the Goats than it is the
Simpling relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:29:10):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
So the mood at Hogwarts is obviously different. Than we
typically see it. Oh, Mary, you made the point about
about another place that we had kind of seen this
kind of veil over Hogwarts.

Speaker 3 (01:29:27):
Yeah, before they even go outside, when Harry's just walking
downstairs to the Great Hall, he talks about just how
like dead it is, how somber and silent and serious
it is, and it made me it felt very similar
to Cedric's memorial. I called it memorial and not funeral.
I was shocked because Harry says this is the first
funeral he's ever been to, and I was like, wait

(01:29:49):
a minute, he didn't go to He didn't go to Cedric's.
My boy brought the body back all right, like it
was a kind of fascinated. And I do like some
of y'all had a good point to that, but yeah,
I was shocked that he didn't go to Cedric's funeral.

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
Yeah, I don't know if he had a way to
go to Cedric's funeral. Honestly, we know that the Theories
lives some somewhat close to the Weasleys, uh, And I'm
only basing that off of they took the same port
key to the World Cup. But in between Gobblet of
Fire and Order of the Phoenix. Harry is stuck at

(01:30:28):
the Dursley's. The Durleys aren't going to drive him to
go visit anywhere he is. You know, he is kind
of excommunicated almost over this summer when the funeral would
have been happening. I think the only way that Harry
could have attended Cedric's funeral is if it's this scenario

(01:30:48):
and it's happening at Hogwarts. I think that that's.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Yeah, I'm picturing the world now and like, because you're
absolutely right, he was on lockdown at the Dursley's over
the summer before book five, but I'm picturing a world
now where you know, Harry talks about I want to
go visit my parents' graves, and perhaps you know, whether
at the beginning of this book, you know, when he

(01:31:11):
goes to see when he goes to the borough, perhaps
there's a moment in a chapter where they're like, hey,
let's take you to Cedric's grave because it's just over here,
you know, or or something like or beginning of book seven,
when he's at the borough, Hey, let's go check this out.
I could see something like that happening. So not at
sending the funeral, but at least checking out the grave.

Speaker 4 (01:31:34):
That would be sweet, though. I like to imagine your
world there because give him a little bit of closer
to see him at rest instead of the last time
he'saw on.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
And then they get a time turner and then they
save him, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
I haven't had breakfast yet.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Gee, somebody write this down.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
You should do it in like play form almost, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
So we're at the moment where friend George are seen
wearing quote black dragon skin jacket, like.

Speaker 4 (01:32:12):
Why, I mean one their brother absolutely. Probably the whole
Abber fourth and Goat situation is Charlie and dragons, like.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Probably, I don't know if Charlie his the relationship with dragons.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
Been inappropriate with a dragon I don't want to talk about, but.

Speaker 4 (01:32:32):
Maybe not the inappropriate. I just thought it was always
inappropriate spills. I didn't think he actually had an intimate experience.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
I mean, listen, there are a lot of inappropriate or
unexplainable sex. I mean Hagrid's parents, right.

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
No, I listened to that episode the other day. You
guys are coming on about uh and the goats, and
I was just like, I'm going to assume the best.
I'm going to assume this is quirky children's book writing,
and just move on because it is one of those
things that's like, why was that written?

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
We didn't need I mean, listen most children's movies and whatever. Yes,
I mean Zotopia that Josh brought up.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
Oh yes, the line between children's children's fantasy and romanticicy
is is dean. It just takes a couple of words
to get mixed around. Replace a wand with a.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
Just finished Chamber of Secrets on my podcast, and like
I am, I'm a pastor. I want to make it
family friendly, and there's there's a lot of things I
have to all right, there's a lot of things I
avoid very consciously because you know, I like, I don't
think there's anything wrong with adult humor in the right context.

(01:33:57):
But like I remember, I got to the part of
Lockhart saying, oh sorry, my one got a little excited
when he's around a bunch of children, and I was like,
that is crazy. My guest host was like, can we
talk about that? I was like, how about not?

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Let's not do keep moving so Barry will never be
talking about my favorite Harry Potter thing, which is you
read the books and you substitute penis for the word
wand everywhere everywhere just my.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Favorite, which is what I was doing That wasn't that was.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
But I do like I like Fred and George in
these in these dragon skin because I think like in
in Hardwart's legacy there's dragon skin, gloves. You know, there's
there's dragon there's dragon skin, a lot of stuff even
in the books.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
Like they protect you fly.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
I mean this is like, you know how Haggard is
kind of impervious to stunning spells and they said a
dragon you couldn't do it, like you would need a
whole lot more than just one or two. Maybe this
is actually protective a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
Why is it?

Speaker 4 (01:35:08):
Why would they support something that clearly is just for fashion,
Like it's not the gloves.

Speaker 3 (01:35:16):
I don't think they thought about it. You know, oftentimes
somebody might bring up to like I remember, you know,
you watch nine in two thousand sitcoms or ninety sitcoms
of a thing that I'll often see is somebody wears
a I'm thinking of a specific episode in Friends when
Phoebe's doesn't want anybody to wear the mink over coat.
And it's like Rachel didn't even consider that, you know,

(01:35:40):
when she was given the coat. It wasn't oh, this
mini chinchilla has had to die to make this. It was, oh,
that's a nice looking coat. And so again, if we're
assuming the best, that's probably what it is.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
But their brothers are like their brother absolutely trains, does this,
does that? Does that?

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
With dragons, Like they take dead pixies and like grind
them up for their their skyving snack boxes. So it
is literally there are no beans in the Wizarding World.

Speaker 4 (01:36:09):
Their new found wilts and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Well, one thing that you don't understand the dragons that
were like the skins that were used to make these coats,
they lived the whole life and they died of natural
So like Nazi dragons, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
What intormation, the.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Wow, good pronunciation and everything we are amongst the nerds friends.

Speaker 3 (01:36:43):
Every time I read that book, I'm smaug. It's just.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
We have so much world.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
All of my stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
No, no, I think we're I think we're closer to
being done than you think we are. Because now we're
going to talk about Tonks and her quote vividest pink Yeah,
I like which is dope.

Speaker 3 (01:37:09):
Yeah, I like that call.

Speaker 4 (01:37:10):
She also looks sick, but she didn't have to kill
anything in the process, So you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
I don't know. Listen, she killed cultural.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
Maybe Lupin had another girl on the side, and she
was like, that's why she was able to get with him.
Now took this girl out. She is a killer after all. Yeah,
but you know her. I love this moment of even
at a funeral, in the darkest of moments and at
such a sad time, there can be somebody that is

(01:37:45):
this happy, given what's going on in their life. And
I don't think that's wrong, you know, I don't think
it's wrong. Like, just because other people are sad doesn't
mean you need to become depressed yourself. I think it's
great to sit in somebody's sadness with them, to encourage them,
to be there for them. But you can also be
a positive presence in there. Uh, And so I do

(01:38:06):
love this moment of and it's also encouraging to everybody
else there of Hey, just because we're sad doesn't mean
there's not good in the world. Doesn't mean there's not
good stuff going on at the same time, Like, Hey,
this girl's been after this guy for a whole year.
She finally made it happen, you know, And It reminds
me of Dumbledore's quote that happiness can be found even
in the darkest of places.

Speaker 4 (01:38:27):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
Yeah, because you know that Dumbledore would be happiest. I
mean we hear about in the in the chapter people
and previous.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
This is great, my funeral love for you.

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
Nothing, nothing, nothing would make Dumbledore happier than to know.
Then there's like a little bit of more.

Speaker 1 (01:38:49):
Although you know, if Loopin had been chasing tongs for
a year, we'd be having a different conversation. But that's
a different podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:38:56):
What would yeah, what would loopen look like?

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
No, it's not even that. It's the like tonks like
pursued him for a year, doggedly right, And if a
dude did that to a girl.

Speaker 3 (01:39:08):
Well I think we be a stucker. Yeah, we do
talk about it in a with with snape or crewe freak.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
No pun intended there. So the next person that Harry
sees is I think he says like his doesn't he
say his squib neighbor. He doesn't calm missus Fike out
by name?

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
He does.

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
He says Arabella. He does.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
Yeah, he says a full name. They didn't even say
missus fait.

Speaker 1 (01:39:36):
He does that to somebody though, Are you sure? I mean,
I believe you, but are you sure?

Speaker 2 (01:39:41):
It says Madame. So it talks about Remus and tonks
Bill supported by Fleur, Madame Maxim Tom the landlord of
the Leaky Cauldron.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
All right, he says Arabella thing, and then he says
Harry's squib neighbor. Okay, I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
And then the name that he does not know is
that Harry bass player from the Weird Sisters.

Speaker 4 (01:40:05):
And y'all talked about him on that last like the
last episode.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Did that's Stumbledore's lever on the last episode? The bass player?

Speaker 7 (01:40:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
You know, we looked it up because is that is
that who we're told that serious is mistaken for.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
Stubby boarding?

Speaker 4 (01:40:24):
Is here?

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
I guess?

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
Yeah? Yah? So how how did fig get to Hogwarts?
Did she taken the express? Was she brought there by
somebody else?

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
My head cannon is that Mandungus had to pick her
up and they rode on a broom together and she's
behind him just hitting him with her cat cat food
filled purse, talking about if you were there, you could
have saved double door. He's all like a Figgi stop it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
Yeah, I mean I think she can travel via magical means.
She just can't initiate the magical means, so she could
side along apparate with somebody. Yeah, it is curious how
she got them. Maybe she took the night bus. Can
she take the night bus? Can she see them?

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
You have to put your one hand out, and she
doesn't have a one hand.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
Well she has hands her and mandungis on the train
or on the taking the journey together.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
I like to think that there were like special trips
from the Hogwarts Express that we're going in between London.

Speaker 4 (01:41:38):
Yeah, they could have sent like some sort of a
like you could send a patrona's for a messenger. Well,
she she's a swip. Maybe she could have sent an
owl with a letter saying that she would like to
be there, and then they, you know, could arrange for
somebody to come pick her up. She's gonna have some
way to communicate with them.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
An interesting thought I think I just had was that, like,
you know, we were talking about the Ministry being glad
that Dumbledore is dead, and so perhaps like they are
making the funeral such a spectacle and getting making it
so easy for everybody to get there because they want
everybody to know. Hey, he's dead. It's us now, it's
just us.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
That's that's that's some propaganda, right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:42:21):
But then but it's absolutely like possible.

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
Yeah, I mean, I'm certain the funeral was definitely in
the daily profit. I assume that fig gets the day.

Speaker 4 (01:42:32):
Yeah, she wouldn't have to have someone specially sent for her.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
Maybe she walked, I will walk five hundreds.

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Yeah, maybe she did.

Speaker 3 (01:42:47):
Do you think? Uh So, there's the note of Rita
writing like her Harry was ticked off to see that
she had her notebook out, and you know, she comes
out with her book very quick, and they even talk
about it in the in the next book of how
hard she worked, or at least she claims to have
worked when writing Dumbledore's biography. But I wonder if she

(01:43:07):
had like already had this in the works like for
years to come, and she was just waiting to pin
the last few chapters, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
Yeah, I think I think it's certainly likely that she
had been working on it for for a bit anyway,
I mean, not not not even like in anticipation of
his early death, but almost almost as if writing an
expose a that would have come out before his death,

(01:43:34):
and then all of a sudden he does, and now
she can market it as a biography, you know, like
that because I know, like this is this is not
the same thing. But like, uh, sports writers like sports
columns for newspapers during the game like that they're covering,
they will be They write the article or the column

(01:43:55):
throughout the game and then like all they have to
do is change the very last section. And you know,
I've you know, I've heard interviews and and and things
like that where the worst thing that could happen to
a newspaper writer is an exciting game. Because if it's
not exciting, they can have it done before.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
It's like those Super Bowl T shirts you know, of
whoever wins. You know, we have all the shirts printed,
but the bad the one of the team that loses,
let's send them off somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
Yeah, I mean muggle net pre writes obituaries.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
Are you I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:44:35):
Okay, And you said.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
I want to look at mine, be like, what do
you have for me?

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
What have you put down?

Speaker 3 (01:44:40):
Can I edit it?

Speaker 4 (01:44:42):
I don't like that part. Listen, Rita Skeeter has chat GPT.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
That's essentially what it is.

Speaker 4 (01:44:49):
She also yes, she did not have to hard on this.
It just took everything that she already knew about Dumbledore
and anything anybody else I ever told her ever in
her whole time as a journalist, and it just wrote
it for her. She ain't do nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:08):
Yeah, you know, I am always surprised how quickly real
world Muggle people like Rita can churn out a book
after something, and it's like you must have been working
on that ahead of time, or that's not a good book. Like,
as someone who has published books, I write, there's like
a six months lead time before when you turn it

(01:45:29):
in for printing and it actually shows up in stores.
So if something do you know what I mean, Like
if something just happened and you've got a book coming
out six months later about it, you pre wrote.

Speaker 3 (01:45:40):
That, I'm sure. Like like with a lot of these
like CEOs that write like leadership books and stuff like that,
I think they have like a team of ghostwriters, visual
chapter you know. I know, like there's a lot of
pastors who have books come out, but it's really just
people making books out of their sermons or stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:46:03):
Yeah, there's so many things about these books that, as
I said, I think probably the first and the second
episode because this is only my third episode to be
a host on. I probably said previously, I haven't reread
the books since they came out, so there are so
many things that I have, Like as they came out,

(01:46:25):
I read the first one like seven or eight times.
I read the second one seven or eight times, and
then as they started coming out more frequently, I stopped
reading them more frequently.

Speaker 1 (01:46:36):
And yeah, because it's more books to read it time, right.

Speaker 4 (01:46:39):
And then by the time the last one came out,
that was it. I didn't read the last one twice.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
And so only read Hello once one.

Speaker 4 (01:46:46):
Time, crazy and never again since it came out in
what year twenty two thousand and six, e eleven's when
the last one came out.

Speaker 3 (01:46:58):
The book came out, Yeah, book came out.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
It was seven o seven seven seven for the book,
eleven for the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:47:04):
And I probably read that quickly because I was a
freshman in college and I was the Alabama Watermelon Association queen.

Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
And that is the most amazing sentence, like autograph.

Speaker 4 (01:47:22):
Book, Yes you absolutely may, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
You, sign right here, please miss to Stubby board.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
I can't wait to tell people I was on a
podcast with the Alabama water and Princess.

Speaker 4 (01:47:35):
Was a queen right there.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Please forgive me your highness.

Speaker 4 (01:47:40):
That was so long ago. But anyway, I never you
never lose your majesty. Yeah, you're right, thank you, thank you.
The only throne I have now is you know, in
the bathroom anyway. So I'm sure I read that quickly

(01:48:01):
because I had other stuff to do. Man, I had
other stuff to do. But I don't remember the ghosts
being at the funeral, Like, I don't even remember that
they could leave the castle.

Speaker 3 (01:48:11):
Well, you can barely see them, so, you know, and.

Speaker 4 (01:48:14):
They're outside on the grounds in the daylight, Like I know,
you can't hardly see them, but like what, they can
leave the castle. And then I got to thinking they
didn't like a lot of them didn't die in the
castle anyway, did they?

Speaker 2 (01:48:29):
Yeah, so they came there.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
Of choice, do you choose one place and that includes
all of the grounds, or do you choose one place
and it's just the place. Obviously it's the grounds too,
because they were out there. I had no idea, totally forgot.

Speaker 2 (01:48:49):
I don't think you necessarily have to choose a place, though,
because if that's the case, then no one at the
death day party could come like the headless hunt, people
couldn't go in between.

Speaker 3 (01:49:01):
He talked about people coming from all over to that.

Speaker 4 (01:49:03):
I forgot about all that. I mean, I knew. I
remember the Death Day party because it's in It's in
quite a few of the games I play, But like
I forgot, it was people who weren't ghosts, that were
not there.

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
And and Myrtle. Myrtle gets like banished almost to the casts.
Yeah yeah, but even that, she goes into the lake.
She goes through the pops to the lake, hangs out
with the squid. You know them.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
The people definitely know her and are annoyed by her.

Speaker 4 (01:49:41):
She screams right back at him, exactly. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:49:49):
One of the things I love going to the parks,
I love it so much. But my least favorite thing
about Harry Potter World at Universal is the fact Myrtle's
voice plays over the intercom in both bathrooms. It's in
the men's.

Speaker 1 (01:50:05):
Bathrooms my favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:50:07):
Don't get me wrong. It's a wonderful touch. But as
a man standing at the urdle doing my business, when
I hear the voice of a little teenage, that's crazy
to get that out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
Hey, Barry, is this is this your first kid? That's coming. Yeah, yeah,
you gotta get used to you'll never go. Also, you'll
never get Also.

Speaker 1 (01:50:33):
Instead of thinking about Myrtle, thing about Shirley Henderson who
was the actress that played Myrtle, who was like thirty
one or something.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
So yeah, if that, if you would like to talk
about an adult woman laughing at.

Speaker 1 (01:50:44):
You, that's got a different cond of it is it is, yeah,
so familiar, so so so so. The funeral is starting
and Hagrid has the honor, like so many times, of

(01:51:04):
carrying what he believes to be a corpse. And I'm
going to use those words specifically for a reason that
we'll get to.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Well, well, it's just weird. It's just weird to me.
Why I understand why he was asked to carry Harry's corpse.

Speaker 3 (01:51:20):
I think he asked to carry Dumbledore's.

Speaker 2 (01:51:22):
Yeah, but what why is he not in something like
he's wrapped.

Speaker 1 (01:51:27):
In like he's wrapped in his cloak.

Speaker 3 (01:51:29):
Yeah, I've never been to a wizard funeral, so this
is what I go off of.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Well, I'm okay, and neither of a like.

Speaker 3 (01:51:37):
We have that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:38):
I really appreciate that, but like I've been to a lot,
a lot of like Nuggle funerals. There's never been one
time where the corpse is carried. Now we don't have
a giant, we don't have a half giant. Maybe that
maybe that makes a difference.

Speaker 3 (01:51:57):
He's got this, he is all the Pauls.

Speaker 2 (01:52:02):
So I I just don't get it.

Speaker 4 (01:52:04):
In the South, it is becoming more normalized to have
your loved one embalmed in a position of being seated
or standing next to something that they love or in something.

Speaker 3 (01:52:28):
I'm in Georgia and I've never heard of this.

Speaker 4 (01:52:30):
What is going on Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana here, That makes sense,
But they are they're not They're not supposed to be funerals.
They're supposed to be celebrations of life. So it's funny,
I think because sometimes it's based on that song brought

(01:52:50):
me up beside the jukebox.

Speaker 2 (01:52:52):
When I die, will.

Speaker 1 (01:52:56):
Have them as the Yankeest standing here going yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:52:59):
They will literally have them being put and they they
look like a wax figure, which they probably are at
that point. But some of them will be seated like
one I've seen on a I've never I have never
been to one of these, but like on a Harley
pack in one of their like forties fifties Mustangs with

(01:53:23):
the roof like the roof off and they're seated in it,
or or a car that if they were a collector,
it's with something they love.

Speaker 3 (01:53:32):
You don't keep them there, do you.

Speaker 4 (01:53:34):
No. I'm sure they have to break their bones and
stuff to put them because back into like the you know,
a flat coffin, or maybe they're.

Speaker 3 (01:53:42):
Well like just my my dad he told me, like
growing up, and he grew up in Kentucky. He said
that when he was little, it was it was disrespectful
to leave a body alone at night, and so you
would somebody had to stay in the room with the
body and it would be at your house. You wouldn't

(01:54:04):
have it at the funeral home, not until the funeral happened, uh,
And somebody would stay and and it you know, if
the body is not properly treated, it can like still
move after death. And he said there was one time
as a kid, a body literally sat up because of
all the gases popping and all that inside of it,
and he like sprints it out of the room crying.

(01:54:29):
You know, I do think though that with this particular moment,
like it does make complet complete sense to me, Haggard
being Dumbledore's man as well as Harry and just saying
like he was always there for Dumbledore, always there to
love and protect him, and wanting very much like I'm
the one that carried Harry out of I'm going to
be the one that takes him away from the place too,

(01:54:49):
and that type of energy of Dumbledore was always there
for me. This last thing, Yeah, I know, like anytime
I have I've only ever buried. Yeah, I've only ever
buried like pets at the moment, like like physically, but
something it's it's it's a weird moment that I feel
of like, this is the last thing I can do

(01:55:10):
for this creature that I've loved for ten years is
to carry them and bury them here. This is the
last kind act I can do for them. And I
kind of feel like that might be what's going through
Haggard is this is the last kind thing I can
truly do for Dumbledore is to carry him to this spot.

Speaker 4 (01:55:27):
He could have carried the the casket.

Speaker 2 (01:55:32):
I mean, yeah that Okay, guys, My issue is not
with Haggard carrying Dumbledore. It's the fact that he's carrying
his body and then not casket for there's no there's
no poles to be buried bury there, it's just the body.

Speaker 3 (01:55:55):
The imagery wouldn't have worked, you know if like, oh,
he's carrying a giant like over his shoulder, like a
tree log. You know, I think it's much more caring
and almost motherly for Hagrid to be walking with the
body like that.

Speaker 4 (01:56:12):
Did they do this to make the direct comparison between
double Door and Harry?

Speaker 3 (01:56:16):
I think it comes off that way later you think, sure,
I have.

Speaker 1 (01:56:21):
I have two points. First, one is a comment Barry,
thank you for using the proper pronouns for the animals
that you have buried instead of saying the word it.
Thank you. Second, we were talking about the biology of
death and that weird ass embalming that people are like,
what wouldn't double Dore be like pretty hard and richt

(01:56:42):
us at that point? So wouldn't he be like planking
on Hagrid's arms magic, Yeah, it's an excuse for everything,
because if.

Speaker 4 (01:56:52):
He wasn't if he was like zig zaggy so he
could put his legs up under his.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
Knees, that's how that's how he up when he laid
he was too crinkled. No, no, I view I guess
I view whatever I picture the scene going down, I
picture like Dumbledore as a mummy, because it says that

(01:57:20):
he is. He's wrapped in purple velvet spangled with golden stars,
so like that's his clock.

Speaker 4 (01:57:27):
Yeah, so his rigor mortis is him straight like aboard,
which would make sense when he lays him down on
that altar, that he would lay flat.

Speaker 1 (01:57:38):
I was just gonna say, like the religious folks here,
I mean, isn't there some sort of like Jesus allegory
here to be made from this, like as the atheist
in the group pastor of which point, just like being

(01:57:58):
presented and being carried like this, isn't there just some
sort of Yeah, I guess comparison maybe to be made
that godliness of how so many people see Dumbledore.

Speaker 3 (01:58:09):
Maybe there could be I view it more as I mean,
certainly like the I'm not Catholic, but there's like that
famous image of Mary holding Jesus. Yeah, but I think
the more religious one is the thing going up in
flames and like something new appearing a light tomb and

(01:58:30):
all that. But I think this what more than religious symbolism.
I viewed it more as just Haggard caring, you know,
and wanting to love you.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
Well, we get deep into the uh well, we start
the funeral itself, and Catherine, I'm just going to hijack
your point and say that I think the efficient is
elfish Doge?

Speaker 3 (01:58:51):
Oh yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (01:58:52):
That makes sense. Who else would give a eulogy about Dumbledore?
And doesn't Harry say something about like, oh yeah, maybe
he just recognizes it from the article, But I've just
got a feeling that it's elvious.

Speaker 3 (01:59:06):
It said a tofty haired wizard. I thought of a
tofty the exam person only because.

Speaker 1 (01:59:12):
Those are similar, yeah for sure, And.

Speaker 4 (01:59:16):
Like why why did maybe he introduced himself and because
he was saying that Hagridge like his nose blowing trumpeted,
and maybe that like was too loud for him to
be like everybody on elfeus Doge like to say some
words about Dumbledore? You? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:59:37):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:59:38):
Also, I mean, Harry can't hear fishing? Did you look
it up? Josh? What you got?

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
Well, I'm trying to figure out if it's stage or not,
but it is. It's the same. The same man that
presides over the funeral is the same one that presides
over Bill and Fler's wedding.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
Oh so it's not Elvius dos Okay, there's only.

Speaker 3 (01:59:58):
One pastor in the Wizarding World. She's the only one.

Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
But I mean, Harry can't hear the officiant anyway. And
I think it's one of those If any of you
have ever been to any outside event, like even when
I went to like when I've gone to protests over
the years, you've got this big crowd of people, and
this is substantively you know, a large group of people.
They are outside in the Scottish Highlands. They are by

(02:00:25):
the great like the Big Lake, the Black Lake. I
know words, and you just cannot hear people when they
are speaking outside. You have to be within like a
three foot radius if they are not a theater person
and they don't know how to project their voice. My
question like, do sonorous?

Speaker 4 (02:00:43):
That's what I was saying, like thing like do it like?

Speaker 1 (02:00:47):
So that's going to be allowed in Booming. This is
a funeral is supposed to be quiet. But honestly, I
truly think it's just plot because Harry wouldn't be able
to have the introspection that he has here, which is
just a beautiful moment of christ chapter. If there was
a booming voice over the funeral you know.

Speaker 2 (02:01:07):
Well, and it's also Harry dissociating from definitely the funeral itself.
Like I've I sat in the funeral three weeks ago
and it was like, I don't know what they said
because I was just thinking about what you know, the
person you know? Well, are you good, Josh so good?

Speaker 3 (02:01:28):
Like I've been to a lot of funerals. I was
at one three weeks ago, and it's like.

Speaker 2 (02:01:32):
I had been like, okay, sorry, okay, you brought it
back up the fact that I understand why Harry himself
hasn't been to very many funerals, like the Dursleys aren't
bringing him anywhere, you know, his parents not when he
doesn't get all this time. By the time I was sixteen,
I guarantee I've been at least one hundred Stop it,

(02:01:53):
my mom my mom No, this is this is like
Baptist stuff like this is like can you like my
mom my? Mom My mom played pianos, she sang so
like everyone the dog gets in a fifty mile rabius.
It was like and then I was I was four,
like I guess I'm going to the funeral. Like the

(02:02:14):
funeral home people knew me. Yeah, that's how often I
was there.

Speaker 3 (02:02:18):
That's something growing up. My dad also a Baptist, but
he was always very careful to be like you know,
he was adamant, I'm gonna get my kids to church. However,
with funerals, he was like, this is different. If you
don't want to go, you don't have to. Yeah, and
he's he's like, this is an entirely different thing.

Speaker 2 (02:02:37):
So yeah, I feel like we just knew everybody saying
here in the place I grew up in.

Speaker 4 (02:02:44):
I didn't have to go visually see the person, but
we had to be there.

Speaker 2 (02:02:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:02:52):
And when you go to these funerals, it's always more
than one person ninety nine percent of the time who
speak about the deceased.

Speaker 1 (02:03:02):
Why you were gonna say, and I was gonna be like, Catherine,
what world is like a group funeral? And then people
are getting it bombed and they're mustang like, what the.

Speaker 2 (02:03:18):
You need more than one corpse to really make it
feel like a bar.

Speaker 4 (02:03:23):
Yes, Yes, there was one that was seated at the
table with his favorite foods and alcohol at the table
and he was holding it with you know.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
You know what bothers me about that this is.

Speaker 3 (02:03:38):
Like the mummy like like what they would do with mummies.

Speaker 1 (02:03:41):
And this is so off tangent. But what bothers me
about that is that as an animal advocate, I know
quite I know far too much about how they stuff
and treat animals. And they like some in bombers, the
unethical ones obviously, although it's an argument that all of
them aren't ethical, but that's an their podcast will use

(02:04:01):
random objects like beer cans and like plastic bags stuffed
inside of these animals to get them to sit in
a certain position. And that is all I think of
when you talk about those folks being embalmbed. That is
all I mean.

Speaker 4 (02:04:18):
That that guy might have liked being embalmed with beer
cans as long as it was his brand.

Speaker 1 (02:04:24):
You know, you know what, we're gonna need a death warning.

Speaker 2 (02:04:32):
Don't put.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
Give me that good old PBR.

Speaker 3 (02:04:40):
No bud lat, don't put the trash.

Speaker 4 (02:04:46):
Yeah, well so I was. When I mean more than
one person, I meant speaking at the funeral. You I
mean you've got your pastor or you're officiant, and then
you usually have a family member or a friend of
the family if the family is not able to get
up and speak, or you got someone like, my grandmother
passed in March April, and they asked if anyone had

(02:05:11):
memories that they would like to share of her in
honor and memory of that's dangerous. Well, some of them
were funny, but everybody there, I mean, my grand my mom,
excuse me, my mama was not the kind of woman
that you would ever have a bad story about. So
I think they knew that they were safe in that.

(02:05:32):
So they asked if they had any stories, and of course,
like all the grandkids had stories of staying at Mama's
house growing up and every It's so crazy how each
one of us had a different memory of her. It
wasn't that she did, she didn't do. There were very
few things. Food was probably one of them that she did,

(02:05:53):
the same with everybody, but everybody had a different story.
Why did they only let that one go that we
don't know his name? Why was he the only one
that spoke, Well.

Speaker 1 (02:06:04):
We don't know that he's the only one that spoke,
because very soon Harry gets up and walks away from
the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (02:06:09):
Well, I'm trying to think he was pitiful or miserable.

Speaker 1 (02:06:14):
Yeah, there's a quote. It says with a miserable gesture.
Harry got up, turned his back on Ginny and on
Dumbledore's tomb, and walked away around the lake.

Speaker 4 (02:06:22):
But I thought that was because it was over, because
everybody else started walking away.

Speaker 1 (02:06:27):
Oh did they? I don't know. I guess I don't
remember other people getting up and walking away. I mean,
I think it's all of the things that we've touched
on about the politics of Dumbledore's death and of Dumbledore's funeral.

Speaker 2 (02:06:39):
Yes, mister cook, Uh, the little Man in Black had
stopped speaking get last and resumed a seat. Harry waited
for someone else to get up their feet, you know,
he didn't he expected speeches, probably from the minister, but
nobody moved. Then that's whenever the fire and then it
was over, and then there were more across Chaka than

(02:06:59):
the But then the Centaurs gave their salute. And then.

Speaker 3 (02:07:05):
Maybe it's because of the monastry, you know. I like
that was it people knowing that the ministry didn't like Dumbledore.
And it's like, we don't want to get up and
speak for him if we don't need to because the
ministry is watching, you know, something like that.

Speaker 4 (02:07:18):
We don't need to unnecessarily put ourselves at risk.

Speaker 3 (02:07:20):
Yeah, perhaps I feel like Dumbledore would have inspired more
courage than that, But that's the only thing I can
think of.

Speaker 4 (02:07:28):
I mean, even students, like maybe they're.

Speaker 3 (02:07:30):
So hurt by it. Like I remember there was one
time at a funeral that my or at awake. They're
all telling stories and my mom asked me to speak,
and it was somebody that I loved, and I was like,
I can't.

Speaker 4 (02:07:45):
Yeah, that's what I meant by like friends of the family.
If the actual family members couldn't.

Speaker 1 (02:07:50):
Maybe that's just not a Wizarding World tradition.

Speaker 4 (02:07:52):
Oh yeah, but he expected people.

Speaker 1 (02:07:54):
To I know, but it was expectation of funeral. So
all he knows about funeral is what he's heard from
the Dursleys. And I'm sure the Durseys have been like,
oh and then so and so and so and so
and so and so and so and so and so
and so. You know, yeah, Petunia complaining about.

Speaker 3 (02:08:10):
It all the proper people needing to get up and
say they're their peace.

Speaker 4 (02:08:14):
Yeah yeah, so, I mean I was so hungry he
went on for so long to.

Speaker 1 (02:08:19):
Go Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly. My real question is I mean,
and I know, Catherine, you share this with me. What
in that quote that I just read, when Harry gets
up and quote turns his back on Ginny and Dumbledore's
too what it starts and says with a miserable gesture,
say with a or what a with a with a

(02:08:43):
I'm that means how maybe.

Speaker 3 (02:08:46):
It's uh, I'm trying to find the spot. But I
think I think it's when I think it means like
he's like like miserable gestures and like I can't conjure
up much like eh, all right, like it was Pitt
for all that he could give.

Speaker 2 (02:09:01):
When well, I mean this is right after him and
him and Jenny broke up, so like they they're breaking
up Jenny Jenny is Jenny has said, maybe that's why
I like you so much? Yeah, well yeah, all the
all those things, and then finally at the ends like
well I knew you're going to do this anyway. Maybe
that's why I like you so much. And then Harry

(02:09:21):
Harry says that he couldn't bear to hear these things.
He kind of looks around Ron and Hermione, her crying
all these things, and then that's that's whenever he says
with a miserable gesture, like I think that I think
that it's just he just broke up with his girlfriend.
That is his only sense of comfort that he has.
He sees his two best friends crying over the man
that has died, that that he, throughout the whole funeral,

(02:09:44):
has been asking himself, why didn't I ask more questions
to this man? And I think that I think the
misery has set over Harry. I don't think that it's
like I really don't even think it's more of a gesture.
It's more of just like a misery, Like the yesture
is the turnout?

Speaker 1 (02:10:01):
Yeah, like putting it all behind you, turning your back
on it, moving on.

Speaker 2 (02:10:06):
Yeah, yep, because that's what he has, that's what he
has to do.

Speaker 1 (02:10:11):
Dumb Now, well, I need to bring up since we
are at this point, it's the the end of the funeral.
The the the flames have encapsulated the body, and now
Dumbledore isn't it too.

Speaker 3 (02:10:27):
You've got to admit I Dumbledore's got style.

Speaker 1 (02:10:29):
Oh yeah, very much back in the day. So for
the folks who were not around when or we're not
reading the books as they were coming out between six
and seven, as you can imagine, a lot of fan
theories popped up, and the one that I ascribed to
had a website which I know I've talked about on

(02:10:49):
the show before, Dumbledore is Not Dead dot com, and
it was a whole website that ascribed to the theory
that Dumbledore was not dead and the heat he was
going to come back and deathly Hallows. And part of
that is because there is some contextual evidence and the
author at one point said in an interview she's having

(02:11:09):
a lot of trouble with Dumbledore at the moment, and
that was before Hallows had come out, so a lot
of people were like, oh, you know, little did we know.
But so the evidence will just go over very quickly
is that when when Hagrid is carrying Dumbledore to the table,

(02:11:30):
the line specifically says, quote was what Harry knew to
be Dumbledore's body. So everybody was like, maybe that's not
Dumbledore's body. Yes, that's a stunt body, that's not Dumbledore,
you know, because Harry just knew it to be Dumbledore's body,
but there was no evidence it was. And then at
the end, when the you know, the tomb actually appears,

(02:11:53):
it says bright white flames had erupted around Dumbledore's body
in the table upon which it lay. Higher and higher
they rose, obscuring the body. White smoke spiraled into the
ear and made strange shapes. Harry thought for one heart
stopping moment that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into
the blue. But the next second the fire had vanished. Okay,

(02:12:16):
that was obviously Dumbledore, right, that phoenix that Harry thought
he saw a flyway, that was very clearly Dumbledore. He
was like leaving, He's alive. He's alive, okay. And then
as Harry is talking with Scrimjaw about Dumbledore, Scrimjaw says,

(02:12:38):
my dear boy, even Dumbledore cannot return from the and
of course he's gonna say dead, and Harry goes, I'm
not saying he can. You wouldn't understand. But I've got
nothing to tell you. And it's like, m the ghosts
are here. They talk about. Harry talks about Sirius coming
back as it ghosts. There's so much evidence in this
chapter alone that that was a valid theory. Obviously turned

(02:13:01):
out not to be, but I will tell you it
was very prevalent. Back in the six o seven gap
between these books.

Speaker 3 (02:13:09):
I think I had heard that theory, and that especially
that like Fox was his horre crux.

Speaker 1 (02:13:15):
Horn crugs. I'd never heard that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:13:18):
And that like he made Fox of horre crucks when
he was with Grenda Wald and that's how he was
able to That's that's the theory that I had heard.

Speaker 1 (02:13:28):
That's wild to me.

Speaker 3 (02:13:30):
And that's it's a perfect horn crux. It can never
be killed, you know, I mean, I'm dang.

Speaker 4 (02:13:38):
I know he said with Sirius he tries to find
the loopholes of him coming back, And I know it
says in there that he did not try to do
that with Jumbledore, But like if I were in his shoes,
and with the numbers of times that things have exponentially
worked out for Harry, I know there are times most
of the time it doesn't, but times like these, okay,

(02:14:01):
when it really matters, things typically work out for him,
even if it's just like don't look. But I'd have
a hard time not thinking that there's a loophole, especially
all this stuff. And then he tells, especially when he
tells Scrimer, he will only be gone from the school
when none here are loyal to him. And like the

(02:14:22):
last time he said that, like didn't Fox drop the
sorting hat with the sort of Gryffindor on his head.

Speaker 3 (02:14:30):
Listen, that line is so funny. He goes, yeah, but like,
of course.

Speaker 4 (02:14:36):
I would expect that magic to happen now because it
always has, like when things really come down.

Speaker 1 (02:14:43):
To it, and everything you just said just is more
evidence than Devil Door is not dead. I think so too,
because the fact that Harry is like, he didn't try
to find the loopholes. Okay, well guess what those loopholes
are going to appear? At this point. We know how
the author creates a narrative, and so it's really hard
not to look at those things and be like, oh, yeah, okay,
there's the hint. There's a hint. There's a hint. I'm

(02:15:04):
telling you. I'm telling you, like even now I'm sitting here,
going there's so much dividend.

Speaker 2 (02:15:11):
He's not dead, Bernie.

Speaker 3 (02:15:13):
Truly be gone as long as there are those who
are so.

Speaker 1 (02:15:17):
I mean, yes, I mean that's right there. I'm telling you.
I'm telling you. It was everywhere, and it was heartbreaking.
It was heartbreaking when it turned out not to be.

Speaker 3 (02:15:32):
Hey, just because it's happening in your head doesn't mean
it's not true.

Speaker 1 (02:15:36):
You do that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:15:38):
I think that that's what makes it so much better
than cat is that it may it makes so much
sense for Dumbledore to have orchestrated all of this, including
his funeral, because he orchestrated his own death, and and
that that part becomes true. Dumbledore was the puppet master
throughout into his death, not I think that's what makes

(02:16:02):
Half Blood and Deathly Hallows such an interesting book, and
and well, you know, a combination of books and and
just how it's all tied together, because what you expect
is Dumbledore to still be alive, but we're learning the lessons,
like we're putting the lessons that we've learned throughout the
series in the action here where Dumbledore is only gone.

(02:16:25):
If those that are whenever, you know, the people that
are loyal to him aren't there anymore, too, well, there's
still people loyal to Dumbledore at Hogwarts. Harry even says, like, uh,
the other, the other, the other quote of you know,
Dumbledore's essential motto is that you have to fight and
fight again and keep fighting to keep evil away, even

(02:16:47):
in the circumstances where you're dead. Dumbledore is still fighting
after his own death, And like, I think that it
would have been too easy for the author to bring
Doubledore back in deathly hell. I think it's what makes
it better. And he does come back, we know, we
see him. But but I think I think that's I

(02:17:08):
think that's the beauty in the writing, is that it
makes so much sense for Dumbledore to have orchestrated it
all to the point of this is my death, this
is my funeral all. By the way, that was all
a joke. I'm still here. I'm still I'm still here
fighting because that's what I've always told you to do.
But I think that Dumbledore understands and and and and

(02:17:32):
the the plan. The plan happened sooner than what Dumbledore
wanted it to. I still I still believe that Dumbledore
had things he wanted to tell Harry when they got
back to the Astronomy Tower here like after after they
found the locket, all this kind of stuff. I think
that I think that that was gonna be the demarcation
point of Harry. Here's all the things that you need

(02:17:54):
to know.

Speaker 1 (02:17:54):
Now, here's how you destroy Horx.

Speaker 3 (02:17:56):
Yeah, yeah, he's a by the way, you're going to die?
What was that?

Speaker 2 (02:17:59):
Nothing? Well?

Speaker 3 (02:18:00):
Yeah, nothing?

Speaker 4 (02:18:00):
And you were saying about the god complex, not complex,
but the godness of Dumbledore. And it would make sense
as a believer that up until this point, he's orchestrated
his life, he's orchestrated his death. It would make sense
biblically if he had orchestrated his resurrection or the fact

(02:18:22):
that he never died to begin with, or whatever. So
if you're going again, like I don't say everybody knows,
because obviously not everybody knows, or I believe we wouldn't
be here anymore. But if this is a general consensus
that that's how that went, that's how this should go.

(02:18:42):
If Dumbledore is that, But then it ends up being hairy,
you know. But I think up to this point we
think that that's potentially Dumbledore. And of course it would
make sense for him to come back to life or
be resurrected, because that's what we've been led to believe.
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:18:57):
Sure, there would have been too many resis.

Speaker 4 (02:19:04):
We had to make it about the one, the real
chosen one.

Speaker 7 (02:19:09):
But I am yeah, so I know that I know
that we we've kind of been jumping around the end
of the funeral here with with Strimjeor and Jenny and
all these kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (02:19:20):
But it I really enjoyed Harry really looking at look
at all these people that have died, look at all
these people that have stood in in not in his way,
but just in front of him, between him and Baltimore
over the years, and and it's essentially taking his place,

(02:19:40):
taking his own death. And Baltimore uses that against Harry
in the next book, but he uses it against Harry
almost too late, whereas Harry has already come to terms
with I'm not going to let this happen anymore. So
like at the final battle in Hogwarts, dumbled or Baltimore

(02:20:02):
is saying, like, who's going to step up? Who's going
to stand between us now? And Harry says nobody. It's
just me, yes, you know. And that transformation started way back,
like the year prior right here.

Speaker 1 (02:20:16):
Yeah. I mean a lot of readers have called, and
at such a disservice, have called Half Blood Prints a
prequel to Deadly Hellos. And I think there are plots
where that is valid, and I think the one you
just pointed out is one of those. But I think

(02:20:36):
it just it. I mean, I'll reiterate, it's such a
disservice to Half Blood Prints to call it a prequel
to Hellos, because this book is so beautifully crafted and
it's so nice that this is the final chapter, this
is where we leave it, and yeah, it now that

(02:20:56):
I'm saying all of that, yes, it is a beautiful
setup for Hello, but it also is not just a
setup for Hellos.

Speaker 4 (02:21:04):
Yeah, it's not love. I said earlier that he takes
the moments to appreciate, and not just the weather and
the moments that he's had with Jenny Harry and Hermione,
but like here he's taking literally where the Murph folk
come up and he and Double Door sat there and

(02:21:24):
discuss something, or like all the areas that he's seeing
and looking at right now and really taking that time
to appreciate. And again, that is a huge thing for
a sixteen year old, even when he is at a
funeral and he is like wishing he had more time,
or wishing he knew more, or wishing he had asked questions,

(02:21:46):
but he's taking that time to like to reflect, introspect.
I don't know what the right word is, but like
taking that self reflection time. It's I think that's amazing,
And of course every time I read it, I had
to read it three times just so that I'm like
super familiar with it again. But every time I was like,
did damn it?

Speaker 5 (02:22:07):
What?

Speaker 4 (02:22:08):
Oh my gosh, this is it's.

Speaker 1 (02:22:13):
Uh, you know, if you think about the emotionality is
that a word? I think it is? It is from
the end, at the end of every book, this is
the one that feels and you know, again, this is
probably why people call it a prequel, but this is
the one that feels the most real, the most poignant,

(02:22:37):
the most relatable. Agreed, because what Harry is feeling is
not magical. It's just grief, and it's just the next thing.
You know, where do you go in this next part
of your journey?

Speaker 3 (02:22:52):
You know, well, because even like at the end of
Goblet of Fire, there's still a bit of like hope
and resolve in a way and and like ends happily
with him on the train home and goofing around, jinxing
Malfoy and all that, and yeah, not this one.

Speaker 2 (02:23:08):
Well, to to the to the point of this being
like a prequel type of book, the other books they
end with that story. This one ends with the wedding
is happening in the next book. Like they're talking, they're
literally talking about the next scene. Almost ye. Yeah, that

(02:23:31):
doesn't do it any.

Speaker 1 (02:23:31):
Favors, no, for sure. But you know here at the end,
so Harry, as we've discussed, breaks up with Jenny, and
she's like, okay, because Jenny's just that girl. She's like,
all right, whatever, dude, I tried, but you know, no, no, no,

(02:23:52):
like if you love someone's free, if they come back,
it's meant to be, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:23:56):
I was, I just I just mean before where she
was like, you know, i've Hermione told me to be
myself and I was, and so I've tried and you're
still I know you're going to do what.

Speaker 3 (02:24:06):
You're going to do. So I also view it as
incredibly mature on Ginny's park to not like it's it's like, listen,
I'll fight for you, but I won't beg for you.

Speaker 2 (02:24:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:24:15):
It's like she knows worth. And also it is like
she's also respecting what Harry has resolved to.

Speaker 4 (02:24:24):
Do, and she knows he's like capable. She's seen it
time and the time and time again that he's either
capable or others around him are capable and he's willing
to rely on them.

Speaker 3 (02:24:35):
Like that opening line, though when he says, like it's
been like something out of someone else's life these last
few weeks with you.

Speaker 4 (02:24:43):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:24:44):
In my in my podcast, my guests and I always
we have a section of favorite lines, and this would
have been my favorite line. Absolutely, it's so crushing. I
feel so bad for Harry. We're talking about this earlier
of like he doesn't get the normal life, he doesn't
get to do things like this, and for him to
recognize that and say that, I think that's one of

(02:25:05):
the for him. That's one of the nicest things he
could have said to her, Like as far as what
that means to him.

Speaker 1 (02:25:13):
And the fact that he has to compare his happiness
to someone else's life is heartbreaking, like, like, I don't
get these good things, and you have been a good
thing for me, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:25:29):
Catherine's done so. So there is a question of whether
or not Harry should have her or had to break
it off with Jimmy. Okay, now we know why. Jenny
says it's for some stupid, noble reason, which is the
most Gryffindor thing ever, and I, uh, and I understand it,

(02:25:53):
I really do. But so I went back and I
looked at at at some comments from the original episode
one for eight and the commenter the queer Weasley cousin
which I don't remember Kat do you remember?

Speaker 1 (02:26:05):
I don't, but that's a dope user name.

Speaker 3 (02:26:07):
Yep is the freaking accountant.

Speaker 2 (02:26:12):
Yeah right, they said, they said, Harry is pulling the
I have to stay away from you to protect your card,
and Jenny just buys it, and you know that frustrates
the commenter and says, it's nearly the same scene with
looping and tonks from the last chapter and their talks.
Was allowed to say, well, I don't care because I

(02:26:32):
love you and I'm going to stick with you. Jenny
could could so easily have done this too. She could
have told Harry that she's not going to take this,
She's gonna she that she's from a known family of
blood traders and Order members, and that she knows the
danger and will stay by his side no matter what.

Speaker 5 (02:26:49):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:26:50):
The commenter goes on to say that Harry, Harry could
have shown some more respect to Jenny and her needs
and her agency and her capability, and instead it's just
like no, because I need you to be safe, and
he's going to risk his hero neck because he's the hero.
So really the discussion is whether or not. I think

(02:27:13):
it's two questions. One, should Harry have broken it up
broken it off with Jenny in the first place. My
other question is is there a world in which Harry
could where Jenny could have come on the journey with them?
In Deathly Hallows, we know that she's a capable with.

Speaker 3 (02:27:33):
Harry is my favorite character and it's not even close.
I love him and I will defend his decisions so often.
To your second question, is there a world that she
could have come? I don't think so. Because she has
the trace on her, she wouldn't have been able. Like,
just for that reason alone, they would have been found
anytime she had to use magic. It would not have

(02:27:55):
been like, yes, she's capable, absolutely, she's a huge help
but the ministry. But just for that reason alone, I
don't see her as able to go along. But then
as far as the should he have done it? I
don't know. I've heard some people couch it in the
phrase of like this being some dumb man thing or

(02:28:17):
misogynistic thing, of like dismissing her and all. I don't
view it that way. Shocker, but like my view on
it is very much like this is somebody he loves
and wants to protect, you know, And it could have
been the same if guy or girl wouldn't have matter.
Like he originally told Ron and Hermione, you can't come
with me either. Yeah, so it wasn't like just because
you're my girlfriend, but it's because you're somebody I love

(02:28:40):
and want to protect and I need to do this alone.
This whole chapter, he's thinking, I need to do this alone.
So I don't think it's it says, I don't think
I don't like trying to couch this truly selfless thing
as nefarious in that way.

Speaker 4 (02:28:57):
But that's whole I love you so much that I
don't want this for you type thing.

Speaker 3 (02:29:03):
Yeah, it's a I think it's a beautiful thing, a
very sweet thing to do.

Speaker 1 (02:29:09):
Yeah, I actually agree. And I tend to be one
of the folks on this panel the show in general
who tends to sort of scream misogyny, and that's just
because there is a lot of it. To be fair,
I don't think this is out of character for Harry,

(02:29:32):
and yeah, Ginny does accept it sort of readily, and
I think as much as that is a show to
their relationship, I also just think it's a show to
how well they know each other. Ye, Ginny has seen
what Harry has gone through firsthand, close up all of

(02:29:54):
these years at Hawkwarts, and I think there's a level
of us and understanding between them that he doesn't really
have even with Ron and Hermione. I mean he does,
but different different with Ron and Hermione because of course
they were there for some of those escapades. But uh,
you know, Jenny was indirectly involved in one of those escapades.

(02:30:16):
She was she was the hunted, she was the taken.
She was the person Liam Neeson would go, you know,
go find and hunt.

Speaker 3 (02:30:23):
Harry calls up Tom Riddle or writes in the Diary,
I have a particular.

Speaker 1 (02:30:29):
And yeah, I have a feeling that I'm just trying
to think of alternate scenarios if if I don't see
a way Jenny could have come. Yes, I think the
practicality of having an underage which with you. But Harry's

(02:30:50):
journey in the next book, again, I feel like I'm
just validating all the people who call this book a
prequel with everything I'm saying. But Harry goes on a
really important journey through discovering Dumbledore's family and that Dumbledore
shut everybody out of his life and that Harry doesn't
want to be that person. And so I think the

(02:31:11):
conversation would have gone a little different between him and
Jenny if this were like a little further along. I
think that would have actually had a conversation about it and
be like, you know, not more of a I don't
want to say he's shutting her down, but you get
what I'm saying, you.

Speaker 2 (02:31:27):
Know, Yeah, I mean, it's just it's interesting because we talk.
Harry's talking to Jimmy first and says, I'm doing this
by myself. That's why you can't come. I'm doing it
by myself. He talks to scrim Jawer, and then he
goes and talks to Ron and Hermione, and then that's
when the decision is made really that Ron and Hermione
are coming with him. Now. That also feeds right into

(02:31:50):
what Dumbledore has told Harry of like, I think it's
okay for you to tell Ron Hermione what's going on,
and that's it so dumbled or Harry is showing doubled
or respect there too. Of I'm not I'm not inviting
Jimmy because under age bringing in hasn't been there the
whole time and wasn't included.

Speaker 1 (02:32:12):
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. But I do like that we
end on a really positive note. I mean this chapter
has had a lot of, as we've said, lots of
positive things, lots of little moments of humor, and lots
of again dare I say fun fun moments, But this
one always always really sets me up in my fields.

(02:32:34):
Like Catherine husband, but Harry looked at him, meaning ron
startled the idea that anything as normal as a wedding
could still exist seems incredible and yet wonderful.

Speaker 3 (02:32:45):
Ah beautiful.

Speaker 1 (02:32:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's very sweet. I know we're laughing,
but it's very.

Speaker 2 (02:32:58):
Catherine's not laughing, well, like it's it.

Speaker 3 (02:33:01):
You know. It makes me think of like what we
said earlier with with Tonks being you know, this is
actually a really good time for her, you know. And
I remember this is going to sound really weird, but
like when my brother went off to basic training, one
of the things his drill sergeants told him was like,
you guys, think that your families are going to be
sitting at home and not have changed at all when

(02:33:22):
you get back in six months. No, they've moved on
like life goes on whether you're there or not. Uh,
and so this kind of reminds me of that, a
little bit of Yeah, this awful thing has happened, but
life's going to continue, Life's going to keep moving, and
there's still you know, there's good in this world worth
fighting for, mister Field. You know, it's like like if

(02:33:43):
you just look for it, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:33:45):
For sure, for sure. Well, friends, I think this is
where we leave it for today. So Barry, we have
to thank you for being here. You were an absolutely
terrible host, so dominly we didn't enjoy it at all. No,
of course you we're wonderful.

Speaker 2 (02:34:03):
You're not coming back. We don't have any spots left,
but that's true, right with you, it's us.

Speaker 3 (02:34:10):
Well you know what then then you guys are welcome
on my show anytime.

Speaker 1 (02:34:13):
Oh great, well we would cry, so you might not
want me on there.

Speaker 2 (02:34:24):
You to be patient with the or cognizant of what Captain.

Speaker 3 (02:34:29):
I'm gonna make sure she's on for like the Princes,
you know, so she's coming off for four hour episode.

Speaker 1 (02:34:36):
But of course, in all honesty, I'm sure you recognize
my starcasm. You were great and wonderful. I can clearly
tell you're a podcaster because you are very good at this.
So please tell our listeners where they can find your
show and you on the web.

Speaker 3 (02:34:50):
Well, thank you very much for saying all that. You know.
I don't want to uh go on too long, but
I just I appreciate you guys. I've listened to your
show for like you said, this is one of the
longest running shows out there for Harry Potter, and it's
it's a source of comfort, it's a source of laughter
and and and this is one of my bright spots.

(02:35:12):
So thank you, guys. And it's an honor to be
able to come on this and talk with you guys.
And actually, like you know, people whose voices I've heard
for a very long time, I'm like, oh, wow, they're
actually I'm actually in the conversation. This is what I've
been doing in my car for so long, and they
can hear me now when I when I shout at
the millennial. Yeah. But yes, Uh. My show is called

(02:35:35):
a retold Harry Potter podcast, and on it, I just
go through the Harry Potter books two chapters at a time.
At the moment I might start doing one chapter because
it's getting thick.

Speaker 1 (02:35:46):
Oh yeah, we split in print in Azkaban too, so.

Speaker 3 (02:35:49):
Yeah, but it's it's you know, we every time I
have a new guest host on they you know, we
do some trivia and then we talk about our favorite lines,
some deep lore stuff and then you know, it's a
good time. But the you can find me on all
platforms Spotify, on YouTube it's Potter retold. But everywhere else
it's a retold podcast. Instagram or on Spotify, Apple Music,

(02:36:13):
all that stuff it's retold.

Speaker 1 (02:36:14):
So yeah, well, I'm sure that all of us after
this experience want to come on your show, so be
on the lookout for that cure.

Speaker 2 (02:36:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:36:22):
I have like almost all of the spots filled up
for Prisoner of Azkaban, but I have nothing filled up
for Goblet of Fire.

Speaker 1 (02:36:30):
So if that's well, sign me up for order or
half Bad. There you go.

Speaker 4 (02:36:34):
Couplet of Fire is my favorite book.

Speaker 3 (02:36:41):
I hear like Gandalf when he's like but it's like
double doore.

Speaker 4 (02:36:47):
That is awesome. Well, thank you so much, Verry Man.
This has been fun. Thank you for making me laugh.
You are excellent at your impersonations as well impersonation.

Speaker 3 (02:37:00):
What I'm looking for it's all I'm good for.

Speaker 4 (02:37:02):
Yeas, Yeah, I was. I love it. I love it.
I do that and typically people are like, okay, but
as someone who does that, I'm like, yeah, I love it.

Speaker 3 (02:37:15):
He did the thing. Yeah, he did the thing.

Speaker 4 (02:37:18):
He touched the butt.

Speaker 3 (02:37:20):
I had had two Canadians on my podcast the other day,
and anytime they said a boot, I was like, thing,
touched the butt.

Speaker 4 (02:37:27):
That's finding nemo we Josh looked at me, funny.

Speaker 2 (02:37:32):
I didn't get that.

Speaker 4 (02:37:32):
I didn't get it exactly, and I was like, that's
not it.

Speaker 2 (02:37:38):
I am not standing up.

Speaker 3 (02:37:40):
He's like, I didn't know we were talking about it.

Speaker 2 (02:37:41):
I'm not touching but.

Speaker 1 (02:37:44):
Her mining in the wamp and willow. Here we go.

Speaker 3 (02:37:47):
I I did a fan fake review for the first time.
I never read fanfake never, and I I actually found
a really good one called Battles with Basilisks and the
idea is that Gilderoy is actually a He is the
wizard he claims to be and he's the one who
and it's really it's a really good fan ficke if
listeners want to listen to that, And I was like,

(02:38:09):
this is so good. If I'm missing out on something,
but not reading. I clicked next and it was a
dirty Aragogue fanfic and I was like, nope, this was
from start to finish.

Speaker 2 (02:38:22):
Bury the the best fanfic writer that I've come across.
His name Ali Wood. It is a is a writer.
She writes fan fi. It's a long about quiddage. It's
a relationship with Oliver Wood, but on like a gross
relationship with Oliver Wood. So check out Ali Wood.

Speaker 4 (02:38:43):
Oh oh my god, I.

Speaker 3 (02:38:45):
Just typed it up.

Speaker 2 (02:38:46):
I was like, our host Allison has an obsession with
all of.

Speaker 5 (02:38:55):
It.

Speaker 4 (02:38:56):
For a second.

Speaker 3 (02:38:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:38:59):
I think that I think that she anyway, I'm sorry,
she probably did.

Speaker 1 (02:39:03):
You're right, she did write a self in certain fanfic,
but I don't think she ever published it anyway.

Speaker 4 (02:39:07):
So it's an uphill battle for me today again.

Speaker 1 (02:39:10):
Anyway, Katherine, wrap us up here, huh take us out?

Speaker 2 (02:39:14):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:39:14):
So, thank you again, Thank you so much. Please join
us again when our next episode will be the chapter
revisit of Goblet of Fire Chapter seventeen, The Four.

Speaker 2 (02:39:26):
Champions, And if you would like to support the show,
please follow us on pretty much any social media outlet
at Alokhimora MN or on Facebook at Open the Dumbledore.
Remember to subscribe, save and share this episode with your.

Speaker 1 (02:39:40):
Friends and with that. This has been episode sixty nine
of the Final one hundred. I'm Kat, I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:39:46):
Catherine, and I'm Josh. Thank you for listening to episode
four hundred and sixty nine of Alokhimra.

Speaker 4 (02:39:53):
What do you Want?

Speaker 3 (02:39:55):
I want you to Open the Dumble Door.

Speaker 8 (02:40:10):
Aloha Mora is produced by Tracy Dunstan. This episode was
edited by Patrick Muselek. Aloha Mora was co created by
Noah Breed and Kat Miller and is brought to you
by APWBD LLC.

Speaker 1 (02:40:34):
Oh is this your first chapter summary, Katherine?

Speaker 4 (02:40:36):
It is my first chapter summary, and it was terrifying.
And I read it to my husband and he was like,
that's a summary and I was like, but it's only
like four sentences. It's not even a paragraph.

Speaker 1 (02:40:48):
Yeah, it's like, No, it's good, it's perfect. I read it.
I read it last night and again this morning. It's great.

Speaker 4 (02:40:53):
See, it's a long chapter.

Speaker 2 (02:40:55):
What can I say, Catherine? If my chapter summary would
have been this is the Door Funeral, but sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:41:03):
Because basically it's about Okay, yeah, basically yes, all right,
hit us with the babe, let's get into it.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Cardiac Cowboys

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}HBP, 30 Revisit: Mandatory Work Funeral

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Cardiac Cowboys

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

HBP, 30 Revisit: Mandatory Work Funeral

On Purpose with Jay Shetty