OOTP, 30 Revisit: Buff Filch

Episode Transcript
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(00:17):
This is episode three hundred and eightyfive of Aloha Mora for October twenty first,
twenty and twenty three. Welcome toanother episode of Aloha Mora, the

(00:40):
fandom's original Harry Potter book Club.I'm Alison Sigurd, I'm Astrachelder, and
I'm Bianca Lynch. And today weare super excited to introduce our guests,
Carolyne, Caroline or Carolina if youare in Germany. She says that we
can call her any of those.So really nice to meet you, Carolyne.
Nice finally being on the podcast.I'm really excited looking forward to it.

(01:06):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely tell usa little bit more about you.
Well, as you said, I'mfrom Germany. I live in Berlin currently,
and I discovered the podcast five yearsago. Friends had urged me to
just try podcasts in general. Neverwas something for me kind of and I

(01:26):
thought about what topic would excite meand just put in Harry Potters. I
saw Aloho Mora, listened to oneepisode, and then, because I'm a
completionist, I started at the verybeginning and I didn't I didn't look up
anything online because I was so afraidthat if I'm like catching up that the

(01:48):
podcast has already disappeared, and I'mso happy it hasn't. So yeah.
Also shout out to my cousin,who's not a completionist and has already been
on twice. I told her aboutthe podcast and so, yeah, that
was fun listening to her while Iwas still trying to catch on. Yeah,

(02:09):
listen, there's a lot of episodes. But tell us a little bit
more about your Harry Potter journey.What house are you? Well, I'm
a ravenclaw. I think my HarryPotter journey started. I'm not sure third
grade. I think when the book'scaught on in Germany slowly. I remember
my father reading the first book tome and my brother, and I listened

(02:32):
to the first chapter, and asmany kids in that age did, I
think I heard that quite often.Now hated it because I found it so
boring just the first chapter. Afterthat, I stopped reading, or I
stopped listening to it. And thenwe were on holiday and I had already
read every book we had brought withus except for that, so I picked

(02:53):
it up again, and yeah,then I skipped the first chapter and it
became very interesting. Now I likethe first chapter, but as a third
grade. It really wasn't very interesting, that's fair. And yeah, from
that point on, I fought withmy brother and who gets to read the
books. I remember waiting for thefifth book to come out. It had

(03:15):
already come out in English, butnot in German, so the translation had
yet come out, and the fatherof a friend had the English version,
and at that time, I thinkI was in seventh grade, so I
had like two years of English,and I went to her place nearly every
day with the dictionary, like triedto read the book translated until my parents

(03:38):
realized I was very serious about thatand bought the English version and I read
through it, and then the Germanversion came out and I realized how many
things I missed my rough translation.So I tried to get a lot better
in English. And I think Icredit like around thirty percent of my English

(03:58):
to my will of reading the booksas soon as possible. That's amazing.
Yeah, So that that's my Potterjourney. Kind that's awesome. Well,
thank you for sharing, Carolyn.So this episode is going to be from
Order of the Phoenix, the bestBook if you ask me, chapter thirty.

(04:18):
Ooh, okay, all right,we have some people who don't agree,
and that's fine. Order of thePhoenix chapter thirty titled grop and the
original episode number and date was episodeone hundred and eight from November first,
twenty fourteen, feeling like Forever Ago, and that episode was titled Bigger on

(04:42):
the Inside with hosts Michael kat Rosieand Eric. I bet that was a
great episode because I love all ofthem. That was almost a decade ago.
I'd just like to bring out that'swild. Sure, it's wild.
Yeah. This is also a verycontroversial chapter, I think. So I'm

(05:02):
excited for us to to dive intothis. I think we've been I think
we've been looking forward to this one. It's been what we've been talking about
a lot, the infamous chapter.And of course it wouldn't be an episode
without mentioning our Patreon. Uh andthis episode is sponsored by Deborah Ferry on

(05:23):
Patreon. Kay, assuming that peopleare laughing but I can't hear it,
But at the version of Alohelm,we're to watch this video and see our
wonderful, beautiful, amazing, tiredfaces. Because you know it's eleven am.
You can head over on over toour Patreon and become a sponsor for
as little as two dollars a month, which you know you can divide it

(05:46):
up in whatever type of money youwant. I just I just know good
old American money vision. Visit patreondot com s watch a looholm were to
find out more. We're doing greatthis morning. It's a where, it's
a great time. We're here forit. We are surviving, and our
next order of business is our shoutout Maxima. Okay, this is from

(06:12):
episode three hundred and eighty three,which looked at Deathly Halli's chapter twenty four,
the wand Maker and Tracy Shawmny andour guest Mike. We're on that
episode and our comment comes from absentminded Raven, who says it's worth bearing
in mind that only three Voldibits havebeen dealt with at this point, the

(06:33):
Diary of the Ring and the Locket. They're figuring out the cup, don't
know what the Dadam is, anddon't know about Harriet. Though it's probably
a suspicion in the back of theirminds, they have no idea the quest
will be complete a couple of daysafter they break into Gringots. For all
they know, there could be anothercouple of books before they finally defeat Baltimore,
so it's still worth keeping things secret. Bill may be safe right now,

(06:54):
but will that still be true ina year's time. And I'll tell
you the reason I picked this commentis for this question at the end,
because I thought it would be afascinating discussion, especially considering what happened with
the Weasleys in Percy. Is thisvalid or should they have trusted him completely?

(07:16):
Wait? How are we connecting Percyand Bill? I'm just saying with
the Weasley's family like history, right, I'm sure there's definitely some like residual,
you know, like because Percy kindof up and left on them suddenly
or it seems sudden. So doesthat make it valid for them to not

(07:41):
completely trust Bill or should they havejust trusted Bill? Right? Is absent?
Madu'd raven Wright that yes, Billis a safe person nol but maybe
later he could have not been.What do we think? I don't think
he would have betrayed any of them, But I think there's a valid reason
with not wanting to trust anyone outof like safety, both for the person

(08:01):
that they're entrusting the information with andthemselves because lets people that know the harder
it is to like use someone againstthem, but like you know, like
harming them in order to get informationout of them, Like it's very easy
to do so, so like Ikind of get no one to trust anyone
that potentially we like he used tolike get information. But Bill's a pretty

(08:22):
tough guy. Do you think hewould have corracked under something like that?
Like, I mean he's curse breakertense. I mean like if they if
they for example, capture Flur orif they already have a child and they
capture the child. I think,if we're actually looking at it could have
been another couple of books more.It's always a liability, not even I

(08:45):
also don't think Bill would like activelybetray them, but if the life of
other people that he really cares about, or if he's tortured at all one
point or another, then I thinkit's also keeping Bill safe. There's only
like so much you can you're likeeven like mentally in order to like withstanding
kind of curse. After a while, it's going to break anyone down.
We know that. It's like,yeah, it may take a little bit,

(09:07):
but it's going to happen eventually.You can also just force him to
drink very to serum or something likethat. Exactly. There's the only ways
I could like at the Yeah.True, that's a good point though about
like Fleur and you know, thenew family that he's building too, and
him wanting to ensure their safety andhow that could be a liability. Oh

(09:28):
that's dark. Are we talking aboutBill being bitten because I'm very confused.
What No, No, we're justtalking about Bill in general. Okay.
I thought we were saying Bill Maggie'ssafe right now. Oh you know what,
he doesn't even get bitten into thesixth book, y'all? All right?
Oh wait, the seventh book.We're talking about whether or not we

(09:54):
think that Bill would if their bookswere to continue, there would do more
time, like for the I'm lookingfor the additional horcruxes, if there would
have been a chance that them trustingBill would have resulted in him eventually betraying
them or giving away information. Ah, got it? Okay. I'm literally
over here struggling a little bit today. Everybody over here thinking about the vampire

(10:20):
bye, and I'm like, sorry, I just I don't even all right,
I got it now, I gotit. I don't have the strength
to stay away from you. Anymore. I don't I got it. I

(10:45):
do not think that it still wouldhave been true. I think the bill
would have correct because we're humans,and what good is a secret if you're
not going to tell at least oneperson, clearly, don't tell me your
secret, duly, Oh my gosh, all right, all right, good,

(11:09):
let's move off this one. Then, sure, please read the chapter
summary while we're still ye, we'restill you know, while while we're still
here. While we're still here,let me let me move on to the
chapter summary because this is getting alittle a little much. Three turns should
do it. Chapter revisit Wadrop ofPhoenix, chapter thirty group how the aftermath

(11:48):
of fred George's dramatic exit has everystudent hotwarts scrambling to become the next class
clown filter practices is volleyball spikes toget students over the swamp the twins left
as a parting gift, and notone of Umberge's classes are spared from huking
or bleeding students, not a singleprofessor bass and I at Umbridge's dilemma,
and McGonagall has even seen potentially aidingimps as the shift as the Quidditch Cup
with Ravenclaw versus Griffindor approaches Ron akaquote unquote, King Weasley becomes hopeful that

(12:13):
he can't do any worse than hehas done at the match. Are worse
for where Hagrid pulls Harry and Hermioneaside and leaves them deep into the forbidden
forest, wherein they meet Hagrid's littleand quotes six foot sixteen footfall half through
the sixteen foot tall I can speakhalf brother on the giant side Grop.
After a very rousing introduction to Grop, with Harry and Hermione promising to take

(12:35):
care of him, when Hagrid inevitblygets sacked, they make their way back
to the match. Much to everyone'ssurprise, King Weasley picked up his crown
winning Griffindor at the Quidditch Cup.Harry and Hermione elect the icebreakers of Grop
will have to wait for another day. We're gonna have one little factual thing
we're going to have to fix fromyour summary. But that's okay. We're
going to get there. What didI say wrong? The image? We'll

(12:58):
get there. We'll get there.Don't say wrong. It's it's an American
versus Britishism. Don't worry. We'llget there. I'll tell you when we
get there. I know it's notactually what that is. It was a
joke, okay, Okay, Imean, I know I'm not great at
that. I know I know whatit actually means. I just prefer think
it's the latter option because I thinkit's funnier that way. It is funnier.

(13:22):
That's okay, we'll get there,because I'm so we'll get there like
two seconds. It's like the secondpoint on the list. That's true,
You're right, okay. So westart with the aftermath of the twins departure,
which is just so great. Imean, I've always loved that part
of this book. But I alsolove that it mentioned specifically that the story

(13:46):
changes every time someone tells it,like even those that were there watching have
embellished the whole thing, which Ithink is just is built a very human
thing, but I think it's alsojust a very teenager thing, right,
Like, this is the big story, and they're gonna tell it, and
they're gonna make it more and moreexciting and more and more crazy, and

(14:07):
it's just gonna spread like wildfire.And I love that so much. I
feel like it also gives some creditto Ron, because Ron is seen doing
that a couple of times throughout theseries, and it kind of shows that,
like, this is not just likea Ron thing, this is a
very human thing to do. Yeah, I'm gonna find any any chance I
can defend Ron. I'm gonna doit because there's too many Ron haters out

(14:28):
there. Same same, I haveno issues with Ron. I think he's
a cutie pie. Okay, good, Well, we're all Ron lovers on
here, so that makes me happy. It's a good episode to be a
Ron Lover's true. That should bethe title. What's the title? I
was just Oh my god, Ihave another idea the title. I really

(14:54):
like this point you made Carolina like, well, I I really it was
so nice that the I might justdo a Weasley comes up, so that
Weasley first in the first book isvery much associated red hair poor and it's
it's so nice that it changes toa very different meaning when someone says like,

(15:16):
oh, you're Weasley or I mightjust do Weasley, And I really
hope it's days. I really hopethat not only the story of the departure
becomes a Hopwitz legend, but thatit's becoming a saying like Merlin spit just
I might just do Weasley. Ireally like that. I love that.
I think you're right. I thinkit's so awesome, and I love that.

(15:37):
And there's all these kids that arelike, I'm grabbing my broom and
I'm getting out of here after thislesson, because you know how often I
hear my students say stuff like We'remade them just that they're grabbing their broom
and getting out a less lesson.Yes, yes, yes, And so
obviously the Weasley's, though they leftchaos in their wake, where beautiful,

(16:00):
wonderful love it. We get tomy favorite bit of American versus British misunderstanding,
which is punting. Please someone tellme what it is. I would
I would like to. Yeah,so I would let the record show.

(16:23):
Okay, that's my mistake. I'msorry. I should not know what it
means. And I have zero shamabout not knowing what it means other than
football. So yeah, so sopunting in the British sense of the word
means you're on a boat and youhave a really long pole and you use
that to push along the bottom,and that's how you like push yourself in

(16:45):
the boat. It is incredibly difficult. I tried it this summer and oh
my gosh, it is not easy. It is so hard, but it's
so much fun. I like it'sfun. I would do it one day,
but not like six times a daylike filter, yes, to do
right now? Yeah, and onceyou get that, once you get the
hang of it, I think it'seasier. Is it like we had a

(17:07):
lot of problems? Yeah, andjust like a transportation method, yeah,
this is a way of travel.I thought it was a punishment. Like
I was like, holy moly,that sounds like I'm like, dang,
that sounds like an intense arm workout, like they really haven't upgraded their transportation

(17:30):
systems yet. Well. I'm alsothinking about like how deep this water is,
like how long? I just knowI was wondering the same thing,
like can I not like could Ilike swim across in theory? Like are
there like things in the swam?I'm going to get like gat, like
what's going on? Yeah, that'sgross, it's a swamp the British gater.

(17:52):
Len me let me a picture.I have a picture. I have
a picture of me punting whole on. Let me find it real fast and
I'll show you because I think theclass I will that's what I'm looking for.
It real fast. The episode itis, and if you drain our
Patreon you'll get to see it becauseI'm going to put it on to attach

(18:17):
it to the Patreon post or something. No, I was in Oxford.
Here it is okay, so thiscan be fine. It is just incredibly

(18:37):
difficult standing up. Does anyone helpyou? It's just you. Yeah,
so it's just well, there's likeone here, I've got another one.
You've usually got like somebody paddling tohelp, a lot of help there help.

(18:57):
Sorry, now you can sell you'vegot somebody helping you, like steer
and then and then yeah, Ididn't have that nobody help you. I
would accidentally pushed you hard and falloff the boat. I was gonna say,
I'm standing up like I don't know, I envisioned it when you sitting

(19:18):
or like there be like I yeah, yeah, like I'm like one wrong
move and you're in the water.The scariest thing about it was it was
raining that day, so it waslike slippery everywhere, and I did not
wear the right shoes for next andit was yeah, and then so we

(19:48):
we punched down to a pub inOxford and then we had dinner and then
we came back and by the timewe were coming back, it was dark
and raining and we were like,we're gonna and like really raining, like
coming down and we were like,we're gonna die. Oh. So the
hardest part actually was steering because it'sreally hard to like keep it going straight,

(20:11):
so we ran into the trees onthe side of the river quite a
bit detour. So yeah, thatwas fun. But yeah, so that's
punting. Thank you. I lovethat. I got a visual and everything.
Yeah, but I remember the firsttime, I think it was on
the show a while ago that thiscame up and everybody was thinking, like

(20:36):
football punting because half the hosts wereAmerican. Most of the hosts were American,
so we're like, yeah, youknow, he's like drop kicking them
across the swamp, and Rosy andRosie being British, was like, that's
not what that means here, andwe were all like, wow, what
Okay, See, I swear I'veheard this conversation before, but it definitely

(20:57):
wasn't then. I could have swornI was in a conversation about I think
I brought it up before. Ilike I was having deja vu when I
was reading this scene something like I'vewe've talked about this, but how did
you imagine him doing that, likewith magical abilities or because he is maybe
strong. I don't know, hedoesn't really, he doesn't really care about

(21:18):
the kids. I kind of justassumed he was like like across a whole
yeah, correct, I don't know. I imagine there was only a couple
of feet long ago. I waslike, maybe just on a wet floor
sign like just like like I don'tknow, like like that was experience.
I was picturing a very different swampwhen I imagine that him kind of just
like yeah, over the swamp whereI was like, now, it's like,

(21:40):
okay, you know you actually takea physically take a book a boat
across the swamp. Okay. It'sjust it's my favorite bit of accidental like
confusion between American and British English.It's like they thought that they thought to
change philosopher or sorcerers, but theydidn't think to change this. Well well,
because by this by book five,they'd stopped changing a lot of the

(22:03):
many American editions exactly. This wouldprobably would have wanted to change, but
it's just also like, honestly,Filch must be buff. I'm just thinking
like if they have like two periods, assuming that every period there's a class
there, so he brings the kidsthere first period, then picks them up,

(22:26):
brings new kids their second period.Then again it's like six times doing
that. And also like does hehave an enormous punting boat where he puts
ball class or does he have togo like back and forth twenty times per
round so he is like one hundredtimes per day, like he's buff after
that, like he is really gettinglike his fitness planner. I would like

(22:49):
to record the show that I willbe making an edit aboff Filch coming out
of this episode. Please in thereand one of your titles, what is
that we haven't gotten there yet?Clearly you have to read the titles out
to when we get there, becauseI don't know what you we'll get there.

(23:15):
So yeah, so that's that's happening. That's one source of chaos,
but there is also a bunch ofother chaos going before me before I move
on. And you have to ask, like, like I just want to
know how bad Charms is umbrage ifshe can't figure out how to get rid
of the swamp. But like theprofessors clearly can like it's friend George,

(23:36):
like, how complex could there couldit possibly be? I mean they're pretty
good, you know, but Ithink so much. Yeah, you know,
often people who are not very goodat the thing pretend to be extremely
good at something or try to powerto overcompensate, and like it becomes clear

(23:57):
she's not very good at at thethings she does and magic is that also?
I guess like her way, sheactually comes from a place in insecurity,
because doesn't she isn't she half blood? Yeah? Yes, I mean
we know she's got a decent amountof skill because she can produce a patronis,
which is not easy. But Ican definitely see I can see her

(24:22):
being the type who, you know, how there's that part where I think
it's in In a Half Blood whereNeville says, oh, my grandmother thinks
that charms is a soft option,like I can I can see Umbrage being
the type who's like, oh,charms unnecessary, soft option, like you

(24:44):
know, and where where she's justnot good at it. You know.
I also think if she's getting toopissed off that she might honestly be like,
so like overwhelmed by the fact thatshe can't get it to work the
first time that she like her angeris making it. Probably I was actually
the thinking the opposite. I feellike a swamp sounds like very daunting,

(25:04):
and I think, to me,it seems very complex. I first put
a comment in here where I waslike, what type of magic do you
think you would have to use,and then never remember like, oh yeah,
they did actually get it out,so so it was phlip so it
was charms, it is flick.Yeah, does that make sense? Like
how explain charms and a swamp tome? I mean, yeah, I

(25:30):
it makes chance. It should betransfiguration. That's what I think. It's
portable swamps, right, they're sellingportable swamps. Yes, wasn't that something?
So it's not like they're not transfiguringthe corridor. Yeah, they charmed
something to be a transportable swamp andthen you can just yeah, I kind
of because like you just use acharm to like make it disappear. That's

(25:53):
kind of where I just was at, or I was like, you know,
disappears isn't about making he disappear.Charms is about like making things come
alive. It depends on the charm, So so I wonder if if it's
if it's almost like a like asea monkey situation where like they come really
small and then it like gorgeo yeahkind of. And I because we do

(26:21):
know that gorge reductile Flitwick does leavepart of it there at the end of
the year, like he's able toget rid of most of it, but
he leaves a little patch that helike courts that he like cordons off because
he's like, it's just a reallygood bit of magic. So he's obviously

(26:44):
something very Yeah. I think it'salso very experimental, which I think says
just how yeah, which is reallyhow intelligent Friend and George are. No.
Listen, you know, I'm aWeasley twin stand so I'm like,
okay, I hear yeah. Imean they're they're they were in they're brilliant
and they're experimenting with things, andcharms does seem like something that you would

(27:10):
experiment with a lot. I think, like you've got the basics, but
then I'm sure you could like,well, it's been it's been proven that
like they can make your own charmsalso if you have the ability to do
so. Yeah, yeah, Ithink we all do this. Like it's
not like Flitwick can only do charms, just like it's not like mcgonia you
can only do chans aguration. Soeven as I'm saying this, it's like

(27:30):
it doesn't I don't think it saysin the book that Flittwick charmed in a
way. So we have no ideaif he if he like got rid of
it or if he's shrunk it usingcharms. He literally could have used any
type of magic. Like these teachers, they might specialize in something, but
it doesn't mean they can't do otherthings. So which speaking of these other
professors, though, can I justsay I absolutely love how passive aggressive they

(27:52):
are about this, Like Harry's likeMcGonagall or Flittwood could get rid of this
and they do, you know,at the end of the year in like
a snap. But they're just like, huh No, I love how fastive
aggression. I like, that's theonly time I it's like my old stand
weaponizing confidence because I'm going to tellthem like that they're only supposed to teach

(28:14):
in their class and they're like,okay, well then she does. There
is that bit. It's not inthat chapter. Ran before this. Yeah,
but I'm trying to remember if that'sbefore this or I think it has
to be because we're getting towards Yeah, I'm gonna say it were chapter.

(28:36):
Yeah, you're right where she doessay all they can talk about is their
subject matter, right, which islike magic business. So the teachers are
like, Okay, we're gonna mindour business. I just love it so
much because I'm not gonna lie.Sometimes us teachers we're a little petty,
especially when there's like bureaucratic stuff likered tape stuff or like things that higher

(28:59):
ups who don't know what they're talkingabout are trying to impose on us.
We will be so many sometimes it'sbrilliant. I love it. I was
wondering if anybody was feeling even alittle bit sorry from Ridge at this point,
and Asta just straight up with aperiod in the absolutely last saying I

(29:21):
was I was just playing Devil's advocate. I just just all right, nobody
all she made her bed like shedid that. That was honestly, I'm
agreeing. I'm agreeing this is herkarma. I also said that I thought
that suddenly everyone knows the bubble headcharm, and of course they know it
because of Cedric last last year usingit, just thinking like if they don't

(29:45):
know the bubblehead Like if Cedric hadn'tused the bubble head charm, what would
they have done? Would they havejust needed to like hold a nose?
And I feel like it's it's justlike that, I mean the student or
a kid thing where it's like it'slike the mini cella, like eh,
like hold your nose and is itreally that bad? Because I would always
be the kid that was like,yeah, it's a smell a stink bomb

(30:07):
like I have once and it's reallyhorrible, and I'm imagining that like the
magical stink bomb is much more that'sbut it seems like not everyone it said
some students were using the bubble headchimes, like obviously people were just like
raw dogging it and like holding theirbreath and just going. But also the
bubble head charm like if it's somethingthat Cedric like really kind of not discovered

(30:30):
but like researched for the fourth forthe Travis A Tournament, then it's probably
not like the easiest charm. Somaybe like first graders just have to deal
with the stinking bombs. Yeah,or I wonder if they've just all practiced,
you know, like they like massgroups of students are practicing, or
maybe not something that like they're notallowed to practice altogether, that's true,

(30:55):
Or I wonder if Flitwick is likesurreptitiously in his class and being like,
this is how you do this job, because I think I think the most
of the other professors they're also likeencouraging this chaos a little bit, as
we know, because they're trying toget back at Umberge too. But I
think they're also trying to care forthe students themselves, you know, because

(31:19):
they do care about their students,and so I can definitely see Flipwick being
like today's lesson is bubbleheage arms andeveryone's like, oh great, perfect,
and he's like going around helping makingsure people can actually do it. We're
all learning how to swim in casesomeone falls off off. Phil just all

(31:41):
tizing swimming in the swamp. ButI guess, yeah, I guess,
I guess the little heade termoul alsowork in that regard to Yeah, yeah,
you're right, absolutely, yeah Iwas. I was also wondering,
like throughout the books, we alwayshave the problem of like parents contacting the

(32:06):
school board or the ministry because thingsdon't go the way I mean mostly Lucius
Molpho, but we do see Montagu'sparents come in and being furious and Harry's
very happy about that. And Iwas just wondering, like, during this
same time of chaos, like thestudents obviously or like probably have a writing
letters to their parents and like tellingthem talking about their day to day life.

(32:29):
Wouldn't that be parents who have likefurious about what's happening right now?
Yeah, I was like, Idon't, Yes, there is that true,
but like not a right. Soyou mean like the students couldn't really
complain to their parents censor and stuffto not make it sound as bad as
it is. I also think thatthe biggest targets are Umbridge's classes and the

(32:54):
corridors around that. I don't thinkmost of these kids would dare do anything
like this around like snape per se, you know, or like disrupt mcgonagall's
class like nah, But I andI think a lot of students probably aren't
telling their parents the full extent ofwhat's happening, you know, like what

(33:15):
that there's this mass chaos at schoolbecause I think the majority of the students
hate umbrage so much that they arejust like in on the fun basically.
Obviously, I think that that groupof Slytherins that's in like the inquisitorial squad,
which, by the way, they'regetting some nasty stuff too. I

(33:37):
mean, like somebody gets antlers grown, somebody gets like a terrible skin condition.
It's like, I mean, yes, but also like, dang,
that's a little nasty to target otherstudents. I guess that way feels things

(33:57):
that they're like working for the Yeah, but I don't I agree that,
Like, I don't. I don'treally see that the students would be complaining
to their parents because I mean,like, what are they really going to
say. I'm not I'm not talkingabout complaining, but like I can't imagine
no, no one just telling thestudents telling their parents what's happening right now.

(34:19):
Not in a sense of like ohthis is so terrible, but more
like, oh, this is sofun. Like I can't imagine nothing coming
out of that. And like parents, if you hear like, oh,
I mean, they still get theirteaching done, but the school is basically
in chaos. My kids have tobe punted across the corridor. I would
probably complain to the ministry the directionthe ministry like sign off on bridges,

(34:42):
like I know, yeah, yeah, positions. So like would the parents
believe the kids, would they thinkthey were exaggerating? Well, I like
the kids would probably like to talkto other students about it, Like I
don't necessarily see them like writing tothe parents about it. And then there
is that piece about how the maleis you know, good and filter.
But there's a certain level of thisthat's expected. I think when you put

(35:07):
a bunch of magical teenagers in oneplace, you know, like there's and
so maybe that's why parents are justlike, oh, you know, it's
just the normal s and agains thatare happening at Hogwarts. They always happen.
I mean, they can go playdangerous magical sports without any permission,
Like, you know, I thinkthere's just a certain level of expectation of

(35:31):
a little bit of chaos. Andbut I can also definitely see Umbrage like
censoring out to make her look better, like she doesn't want people to know
how bad it is, and soshe's censoring out, especially towards the ministry.
Right, that's the most random questionever, But I know this is
probably a movie is because in themovie, after Ron gets the howler,

(35:52):
the howler rips itself up. It'slike our howlurs actually re usable. Like
if Umbergs were to open the howler, would she with the car no not
to yell at her? Or wouldit yell at her? And then it
also could yell at Ron? Likehow does that work? I don't think
they are because I think even inthe books they explode like they Okay,
then so then like how could shecheck a howler and have it not?

(36:15):
I mean I guess she couldn't becausehe said, like oh, because he
mentions that after like Umbridge checks mymale, I'm still going to get like
the howler of my mom. Butlike she can't like check it, yeah,
I mean, I mean she couldcheck it and just tell Ron like,
hey, you received alay the messagemessage. But speaking of chaos,

(36:38):
the master of chaos is Peeves.But I did have a question because I
was thinking about this. They sayhe's being more chaotic than normal, But
Peeves is a poltergeist who is justlike a spiritual manifestation of chaos. So
how does he suddenly get work?Right? Is there something about Fred and

(37:02):
George like giving him permission that allowshim to take it up. Is the
Bloody Bearing, because we know theBloody Bearing kind of controls Peeves. Is
he just letting things slide more?Probably what's happening here. I always thought
that Peeves is kind of formed throughthe mischief of the children that are there.

(37:22):
Like if the children weren't there,or were like really or just hermione
grangers, he wouldn't be there.It's so strong. And I think because
now nearly everyone creates chaos, hisabilities and powers just grow grows the chaos.
And yeah, so I think that'sI can get behind that. I

(37:45):
think I can see that their energycontributing to his energy. I can get
behind that. And the Bloody Bear. I mean, I guess you know
the person who can like keep Peevesin check, the Bloody Bear, and
I mean the ghost that are Hogwartsare on the side of Hogwarts, and
Hogwarts most of Hogwarts is true antiumbrage. So I feel like this is

(38:07):
a time where like he would kindof look the other way because he's like,
well, if it's if it's fora good cause, then who am
I to interrupt? It's for agood God, it's for the greater good.
See what I did there? DoI see what you did there?
I don't think I see what youdid there? Because you didn't laugh?

(38:27):
Okay, I saw Okay, theautism just like it was a double door
joke, like it's for the greatergood of getting of getting homegirl out of
Hogwarts? What's her name, umbrage? I need a call Homegirl out of
Hogwarts. I think the title competitionfor this episode is unreal right now is

(38:52):
going to be insane. Wait,you guys didn't know what blowing loud?
No? No, no, okay, I didn't know because that's that's like
an English German thing. I okay, I that that's the figure of speech
I've never heard anyone use, andevery every time I read it, I

(39:13):
never thought about it. Blowing Raspberry, we're very loud. I I do
think it also may be more usedin British English, because I think it
did take me a while to figurethat out. Because if you don't know,
listeners, it's it's the thing thatI hope you all enjoyed. What

(39:35):
did you just sorry, Patrick Raspberry? Oh could not know what just happened?
Yeah, I looked it up thistime because I was like, oh,
if we're talking about it. Ineed to came back. And she's
like, Allison, why are yourmotor boating your computer? And I hadn't

(39:57):
even put the headphones in, soit was like I just I was like,
what is happening right now? Isaid, this is so me coda,
because that's just like me being autistic. I was like, I totally
couldn't see myself thinking that they actuallymeant low raps. Actually just knew that
figure a speech, so I wasn'ttripped up, but like, can you
can you imagine that though? Likeliterally he's just like got like a sack

(40:20):
of raspberries in his cheek or something. It just keeps launching that. Also,
why is it called blowing loud raspberries? Why is it called raspberries?
I know, I'm gonna go lookit up. I didn't know what that
was until a few years ago,actually, and I was like, what,
I'm relieved, Yeah, I was. I was much older in life,

(40:43):
and I was like, I didn'teven realize that. Oh that's so
that's so dumb. It's like it'slike a nineteen twenties pun blowing a raspberry
your eyes from the cockney rhymey slangraspberry tart for fart. Oh it is
yet that that makes a lot ofsense. That makes a lot of sense

(41:04):
there, it is cocky. Rhymingslang is so fun anyway, speaking things
though that are not as fun.So they're charming teacups to give them legs
in this chapter and listen why Ihave an idea, Like if you can
see a tea break and but youalso want to walk, but you don't
want to carry your tea cup,I'm sorry, just like follow you behind

(41:27):
so I can get everyone stepping onmy tea. But like, how are
you supposed to do? Yeah,to walk and then you but you can
just now. But like if youleave your tea on your desk and then
you go for walk and you summonit, I don't know how much tea

(41:50):
will still be left in that cup. I just think of like I think
of the butter robot from Rick andMorty. It's like, what is my
purpose? You serve butter? Butlike it just feels like nightmare fuel to
me, Like gee cups with legsthat would only a muggle nightmare. Allison
like, okay, look, look, look this is Can you imagine a

(42:14):
little, little, little heels andfish nets. Oh my god, depends
on the legs, isn't it likea beauty and the beast where they also
like and like it like comes inreal slow. And then maybe maybe the
next level is you change the legs. What kind of legs do you want
to see? You want them alittle more? What kind of legs do
you want on your teacups? Imean we're running. I was gonna say,

(42:37):
like, oh my gosh, arethe toe we're going into like fetish
territory. I need to pulling itback right now? Do you choose the
amount of toes? It has thebeauty of the best situation? Though,

(42:59):
No, you the door beyond Ijust like you opened the dumble door.
I did. I did? Thatwas bad. The real question now is
wis was the reason's right? AndHarry tells Harmonium Ron that he gave his

(43:21):
tryals winnings to friend George and Karl. You had such a great Yeah,
a little bit of Ron love again. I think it shows a tiny bit
of Run's growth because I remember readingthat and I always hated the times in
the books where Ron and Harry Ford, especially about like stupid miscommunication, and

(43:44):
I was so scared that Roe wouldtake that like the wrong way. They
go, You've got you've got somuch money left that you can just give
that to my brothers and then alsogive it to my brothers not to me.
And so yeah, I'm really glad. He just thought it was great
because now he's not to blame anymore. And yeah, I really like that.

(44:07):
Yeah, I love that he's soaccepting. He's just like sweet,
I'm not in trouble. Ron neverwas like keen on taking money from Harry
though, Like he was always likevery like hesitant about it, like all
the Weasleys, where I honestly thinkof all of them, it makes sense
that like Fred and Georgia two thatlike would find a kind of dumb not
to take the offer if it's givento them. Well, they they tried

(44:27):
to know, but like I thinklike they like like they try to say
no, but I could see thatlike like you know, the gears are
turning like that. It's what theylike. I personally, it's someone going
to offer you a handout that thiscomes from a place of like you know,
being very low class, and I'mlike, okay, like if you're
going to offer like you know,like less money out I have to like
spend than I have for another day, like that kind of thing. I'm
like, you know, I tryto say no, but like someone insists,

(44:50):
I'm like, well, if youinsists, like if you insist,
so I always see them the kindof people like that are the kind of
people like well if you insists,like it like gets out of like our
spot of like not knowing how toafford our shop. So like you know,
yeah, I was looking at itmore from like a business perspective,
because to me, if Ron wouldhave taken it, what would he have

(45:13):
done with it? Like sure,maybe he could have you know, done,
I mean, he could have doneanything right. But it's like Harry
specifically said, this is a businessinvestment. It's very different if someone comes
up to you, I will gethere's a bunch of money because you don't
have money, versus here is moneyto fund and dream of yours. Here
is money, and it literally isan investment. I mean obviously I don't

(45:36):
know if they ever paid Harry back. I know they gave they were like
anything in the show, exactly likeany So that's the other thing is like
it's not it wasn't it really wasn'ta handout. It was like it was
like seed funding not to get it. I mean, I don't think he
gave it. I don't think hegave it to them with the anticipation of
them like paying him back later.Like it wasn't like he was sitting there
like sharks hair, like I willgive you a gallions for ten percent stake

(45:59):
in your car. This is true, But he did specifically he did specifically
tell them to use it for theshop, like he like whenever he said
that, like, so he gaveit to them like with that in mind,
like you're going to use this fora business, not just like here's
some money. Because if he wasjust here some money, come on,
give it to Arthur and Molly.No. But I also don't think that

(46:20):
Ron would have taken it. Butit's it's very much Ron to take a
situation like out of context and exploding, especially when it comes to money.
Like he might have also been offendedif Harry would have offered him the money,
you know, but I've also seenhim twisting it around so that he
wouldn't be offended right now, SoI was very happy that he wasn't.

(46:40):
I think I think Ron was generallylike on board with like Weasley's wizard,
So I think he was like reallysupporting the concept of them like opening their
shop, and and the way Harryphrases it too, because the twins do
try and refuse, They're like,no, we can't take that, and
Harry's like, no, you're goingto take it, and you're going to
create your joke shop because we're allgoing to need some more laughs in the
future, right. Like That's theother thing too, I think is that

(47:04):
Harry very much phrases it in theway where he's like, we're going to
need this, We're going to needhumor and we're going to need that to
get through what's coming, So pleasedo this, you know. So it
is kind of Harry investing basically HarryPotter investment venture investing in the future happiness
of all of all wizarding. Yes, and it does help him on his

(47:29):
mission Layton because they they turn froma joke chop to defense shop. Yeah,
and they use some of their productsso they say laughter is the best
defense. They actually say that Isaid that Harry and Harry invested in the
greater good. I'm going to finda way to say that as many times

(47:51):
as possible throughout this episode now thaty'all know do it. But I was
wondering, why is this such anissue for her mind? Right? This
seems like the kind of thing thatto me, and you know me,
I'm Hermione and Carney, so likewhenever I have a question about Hermione,
it comes from a truly deep place. It seems like it seems like the

(48:14):
kind of thing she would really bereally touched by or impressed that Harry did,
you know, like, oh,she you know, he did it,
So I don't know. It alwaysjust kind of struck me as strange
that she takes issue with this.I get it, like she would have
probably not taken issue with that ifHarry would have said said, like,

(48:35):
you finish your education and then youget the money. I think for her
it's very much like, oh,but you have to first finish school until
you do anything else, and likedropping out is such a like huge no
no for her that I think.So it's more of like she enabled them
to do. Yeah, that themoney enabled them to drop out of school,
which is true and it was theright path for them, But that's

(48:58):
something that Hermione would never even thinkabout. So I think that that is
something that shocked her, Like,I mean, didn't she also find the
I may I may remembering wrong,but I use when they first like bring
up the idea of like the jokeshop, she kind of finds like a
little bit preposterous. She's like,oh, like you know it. So
I kind of just assumed it wasmore like you're wasting your money that you

(49:19):
almost died for and that Cedric diedfor for a joke shop. I feel
like she's just kind of like,of all things can use on using on
a joke shop, doesn't she Lateron she's like very impressed with their magic.
But yeah, but I but likenow she's just kind of like when
they were still at school, wasn'tshe already saying something, Oh, that's

(49:43):
very impressive what they're doing, likewith the head to the invisible. Uh,
they do something. But I thinkbut not to the point where not
to the point where like where shewould be that supportive. I think,
I mean, I think I thinkshe's point is the only thing that I
could think of, too, becauseI also cannot think of another reason why

(50:05):
Hermione would be so like offended bythat other than like, oh, Fred
and George are such jokesters. Youknow you could have. I don't know.
Maybe she was thinking, why didn'tgive them money to whit, didn't
give them money to Molly? Idon't know that. Yeah, I feel
like that could have been justified evenif you were like you know, you've
you've like given me all these mealsyou've I mean, listen, as an

(50:25):
adult, you don't think about thisas a child, right when your parents
are like, oh I fed youand I gave you a roof here,
and like, wow, I shutup. And then you get older and
you're paying your own rent. Saidin your head, you didn't say that
out loud. But then you getolder and you're paying your own rent and
you're banging your own groceries and waterbill and light bill, and then you

(50:45):
do start to think about how oftensomebody takes a shower and how often someone
flushes a toilet, and like youknow, whenever you're making dinner, and
that it adds up. So I'msaying I think it would have been fully
justified had he had gone to millAn author every I don't know how.
You probably try to do it anonymously, But even if you were to be
like Hey, this is not ahandout. This is me covering the literal

(51:08):
expenses I have accumulated over the yearsof staying in your house. I've lived
at your house multi sac That's soreal though, And then you go home
and you're like everything you are threetoilet paper? Mom, I said,
you've got like eight rolls of papertowels? Can I have three? Can

(51:29):
I have? You had this spot? That was good? That was like
the first like five years I movedout of my house. Every time something
else came back with me, aset of sheets, anything, I was
just like, did you like scavengetheir house? Like you need this?
Still? Like you still use this? Listen, you get humbled. No,

(51:50):
okay, you get humbled real quickwhen you move out, man.
True, speaking of humiliation, that'sthe thing that's useful when you're trying to
do acclemency, which Harry is notdoing, and that comes up. That
comes up here. Oh away,Allison, I did want to bring up

(52:12):
that note about Molly and Ron beforewe get to acclemency. Oh sorry,
it's okay completely. I took outabout it. Two. I was too
busy talking about you know, oldlife. I am really curious skeuching me
exactly I was. I got realnostalgic for a second. I am very
curious. I felt like Ron wentlike extra hard on, like not wanting

(52:37):
to be blamed by Molly, andI don't know, to me, it
felt a little It didn't feel outof character, but it felt a little
dramatic. I feel like throughout theseries, we don't see Molly blaming Ron
for things that everybody else did,So I was kind of I don't know.
To me, I just felt likehe was like so relieved, like,
oh, She's not gonna be madat me, And I was like,
why on earth when Molly and thetwins, of all people, we

(53:00):
know the twins are very independent,They're very much we're gonna do what we
want to do. On top ofthat, Ron is their younger brother,
not their older brothers. So Iwas just curious as to like, does
he do any of you guys reallythink that Molly was going to blame Ron
for that? No? I don'tat all. I think that he just
assumes that because I feel like that'sjust Ron, like he's he's got some

(53:27):
like younger youngest son syndrome kind ofwhere he's like I get blamed for everything
because Jenny can't get blamed for anythingbecause she's the girl. Maybe she would
have asked him like, did youknow about this something like that blame No.
Yeah. I just thought he wasreal, like adamant, like he
really didn't want to And I waslike, Ron, you had nothing to

(53:52):
do with this, like it justit was giving trauma. I was like
realized. I think I've I've talkedabout this before, but Ron and Percy
are quite alike, I think,And I think Ron feels like he has
to be responsible for the twins sometimes, like he has this feeling of,

(54:12):
you know, the twins are soindividualistic and so on their own and so
not anti their parents, but likebreaking their parents' rules, especially Mollie's rules,
you know, all the time.And Ron, I think also is
very much like Mollie. And wesee that several times. And so I
think he's be like, oh,like Mom would have expected me to like

(54:35):
do better and keep them here andwhatever. And I've disappointed her because she's
going to be heartbroken because they youknow, left school and all of this.
And I definitely think it's more Ronputting it on himself than anything.
I don't think Mollie actually would haveblamed him at all. All right,
back to ocqulemency, okay, anyway, so occulency. But the thing that

(54:58):
I found very interest looking at thisbit here where Hermione He's like, well,
you're still having dreams and you're notpracticing, And Harry admits that,
yeah, he's not because he's curiousabout where these dreams are taking him.
And I find that so fascinating becauseit's such masterful manipulation on Voldemorre's part.

(55:22):
Like Voldemore knows Harry pretty well,right, he knows Harry's a curious person.
If you give him enough little hintsand especially that there's something maybe wrong,
Harry's going to follow that curiosity.I mean he found that out in
the first book when Harry's like,someone might be stealing the Sorcerer's Stone,

(55:43):
then we have to go protect itand we don't know what's happening, you
know. In the second book whenthey go down to the chamber. I
mean, he's seen this multiple times, and I think it's it's a very
fascinating look at Boltimore is very goodat like the philosophical side of villainy,
you know, and like and likethe like the manipulation, like he he

(56:09):
knows what Harry's deal is and he'sspecifically targeting him here, and Harry can't
shut off his own curiosity and he'slike, I want to go figure this
out, right, Like once Ifigured it out, maybe I can block
it out. But until I do, I think I'm just gonna keep going

(56:30):
right, And shouldn't Dumbledore know thisabout Harry? Like if Waldemort knows this
about Harry, shouldn't dumbledn't know andlike at least give him something like not
tell him what is there, butlike tell tell him or tell him through
another person, like Valdemort is tryingto make you curious. It's dangerous and
like just like the tiniest facts sothat he doesn't feel so left alone.

(56:54):
I think. I mean Dumbledore himselfsays it's his great distinesstake, but it
really is his greatest mistake. Yeah, And I think I think that that
is Dumbler's greatest mistake. And Ithink he thought he was cutting off the
curiosity by keeping any information from Harry, but it does the opposite. Yeah,

(57:15):
I mean when does or does notunderstand teenagers, like not giving them
anything is worse than giving them information, because then they'll come up with all
sorts of other things. Yeah,but I did laugh that Ron has been
snitching on Harry's sleeping patterns to Hermione. That made me crack up. I

(57:38):
just pictured Ron like a night likestaring at Harry as he sleeps. I
mean, someone talks while they sleep. You can wake up? Wow,
what you can? You can wakeit up? We can wake up after
you sleep. No, I meanlike if some if the person next to

(57:59):
me, then I wake up.I was I thought you were saying,
like, well, you know inthe middle of the night you can wake
up from sleeping. I'm like,yes, did you know you can wake
up after you sleep? You don'tsleep, you don't die. That's crazy,
quicker than falling asleep. That isfunny because that also could imply that

(58:20):
Ron as a light sleeper, whichis hilarious to me. He seems like
he'd be like I thought. Healways gave heavy sleeper vibes, like just
like fully snoring, drool all overthe place. Like apparently not unless he's
just a light sleeper. When itcomes to Harry all he's so worried about
him, It's like, are youOkay, I don't see that being wrong.

(58:45):
He has like a bell. Hehas like a bell like you know,
and like it back in like whatevertime period it was where like during
like you know, when they're burningpeople live because what was a black death
or whatever, and they're like ringingthe bell if they're still alive, that
kind of thing. And then it'skind of ironic because I feel like we
would expect that more out of Hermione. And then whenever you get the Deadly
Hollows, whenever Ron comes back andHermione's in the teeps, the teep,

(59:07):
the tent, sleepp whatever place tomake you laugh, whenever she's in the
tent, and then Ron is likenot Ron, Oh my god. Harry
is trying to like wake her uplike he has to, Like I don't
know, I know this is likenot even the chapter, but I remember
thinking, like, y'all are likein the wilderness on the run, I

(59:27):
feel like an ant crawling would wakeme up, and Hermione was like in
this deep slumber. And then Idon't know, I just thought that was
interesting anyway. Yeah, I dothink it's funny though, picturing Hermione being
like Ron you have to look afterHarry, so if he starts talking in
his sleep, you have to tie. It's like, I just like I
I picture them like getting one ofthose baby ankle monitors they make like we're

(59:47):
like like like he like you know, like strap one of those to Harry's
like ankles secretly whenever he falls asleep, like Ron like tiptoes over to his
Guy is like, I'm just gonnastrap this song teer leg there, but
put on their ankles, yeh owlsocks or whatever. Yeah, yeah,

(01:00:07):
that's it fits the vibe an owlmonitor like it's really like it's like kind
of oh, they just actually haveheadwig perched by head the original so far
Headwig is too big for that girl? Are you fat shaming Hedwig right now
I'm talking I'm not talking about likeher like gut wise. I'm just saying

(01:00:30):
like her primordial palace. Yeah,I'm just like she's I don't know,
I just envisioned Hadvard big like notmassive, but I mean like at least
like fifteen pounds too big and justbe like that seems a little bit okay,
okay, okay, maybe like yeahaverage size of a snowy owl.

(01:00:53):
Here we go. Okay, Okay, I'm already hear me out. It's
not necessarily about her weight. It'smore so like the feathers, like you
know how like a dog and likeone point five pounds, the feathers start
bigger, and female says three tosix pounds, you know, I forget

(01:01:13):
all y'all. Wings span of fivefeet, I mean no, no,
a wingspan of five feet that's prettybig. So maybe it's not Headwig.
Maybe it's pigwidgen. I'm sorry,he's just hanging out the wingspan. Okay,
yeah, maybe maybe thank you.The bitch is in one one room

(01:01:35):
and Headwig in the other, likebecause it's a monitor and they it's really
big. Win they've got like pigin one section and they got another.
Would not even she would be likecircle of would be like no, I
should be like nah, pig woulddo it though, Pick would be super
excited. He'd be like, sois anybody knows? I mean, I

(01:02:04):
don't listen. I am really annoyedwith Harry at this point. Is anybody
does? Anybody? Is anybody ona Harry's side? In terms of asking
the gryffindors out there, Yeah,is anybody on a Harry's side? In
terms of yeah, I completely getit. I would be curious about that
door too, Yeah, or areyou sid Harry? Are you serious?

(01:02:24):
Like I'm serious right now, butare you really serious? Right now?
I am on the side of curiosity. If I had a recurring dream every
single night, I would start Iwould start getting a little bit, a
little bit like tipped off, andbe like, Okay, what is going
on? Why am I having theexact same dream every single night? Like
I'd start to like try to likethink that there's something kind of he knows
there's meeting behind his dreams of mepersonally. If out of the blue,

(01:02:45):
like every single night, the samenight, over and over, whenever I
would sleep, it'd be the exactsame dream and always stop at the same
place, I'd be like, something'sup, here's what that door. But
it would be different if like youdidn't know, if you didn't know what
was going on. Harry knows thatthese dreams are somewhat real, and he
knows that it's not none of hisbusiness. He's already been told this.

(01:03:08):
He knows it's inevitably going to behis business. Nahn like that case about
literally anything. I'm on his sidehere with the curiosity because definitely, if
if that kept happening to me,I'd be like, Okay, I gotta
find out why, you know,like I got to figure out what's happening
here. And yeah, no,I'm I'm on Harry's side. I understand.

(01:03:32):
I just don't like it. Iget it. It's a big piece
of Harry personally, like he wantsto know like what's going on with him,
Like he I don't think he's goingto feel satisfied until he understand like
why he is the way he is. Right. But you also, we
obviously as readers because we've read theseries, we know this. But at
this point in the book, Harryhas literally been told that like what is

(01:03:52):
at risk, Like you being thisvulnerable means that Voldemort can come into Like
so it's not just like oh,teenage curiosity, like he from what this
it isn't true, but he quoteunquote knows the danger of if Voldemore can
get in his mind, and heis still not only not practicing occlemency,

(01:04:14):
he's like trying to figure out thedream even though he knows that the akban
opportunity for Voldemore to swoop in.Allison you're like, you can't wait to
defit him. Go ahead. Hehas also been told to stay away from
the Philosopher's Stone and not to doanything with a Chamber of Secrets, and
he has learned like if he doesn'tfollow his curiosity, things could turn out

(01:04:35):
worse. And he has also kindof learned that Dumbledore wants him to follow
his curiosity. And I think rightnow he's frustrated with Dumbledore. He feels
left alone. I'm also annoyed withhim. But I kind of also understand
that he's just like that's the onlything he has right now, and he
feels like he needs to have allthe information he can get because that was

(01:04:56):
always what helped him in the end. That's fair, I think I think
it's well. I think it's becauseHarry doesn't realize this is a manipulation tactic
at this point. I think hethinks, like, oh, I'm just
seeing what Baltimore is thinking about.He doesn't realize that Baltimore is planting that
in his head. And that's theBut how is that relevant if he's literally

(01:05:23):
been told that Baltimore can use thatopening? Wait are you wait? Are
you saying that he hasn't been toldthat, yet no, I think he
he doesn't realize that Baltimore is usingthe opening. He thinks, oh,
I'll use it back instead, Right, let me figure out what Baltimore keeps
fixating on, and then I canbe helpful, you know, because he

(01:05:45):
doesn't realize that they know what Valdemoreis fixating on. And so he's being
arrogant and rebellious and as he na, well, not necessarily he's being a
teenager. But also I've talked aboutthis a lot of times before, where

(01:06:06):
Harry's childhood of abuse makes him nottrust adults at all whatsoever. He always
feels like he has to fix theproblem because he can't rely on the adults
in his life. That's what helearned as a small child, and so
that's just his natural inclination is ifI have a chance to figure out what's
wrong and fix it, then Ineed to do that. I have to

(01:06:28):
be the one to do that.He takes that burden on himself, and
so yeah, I definitely think it'sit's because they didn't tell Harry, right,
Like, Okay, Voldemort keeps thinkingabout this, this is what it
is, and so they didn't givehim the information to cut off that curiosity,
which does really much. Say actually, how a lot of the adults

(01:06:49):
in his life don't understand him completely, which is a shame because if they
had understood, they would have toldhim all of this, because that would
have cut it off. No,that is fair, and I do Carolyn.
I also agree with what you saidabout Dumbledore in terms of what it's
kind of like a mix, right, Like he doesn't he doesn't trust adults,

(01:07:10):
and then it's like the Irony isthe one adult that he does really
trust Dumbledore. This is the bookwhere he kind of wants to stick it
to him because he's like, screwa double Dore says, you know all
of that, So yeah, absolutelyI get it. I'm still mad,
but I get it. Speaking ofbeing mad at people, yeah, I'm
really mad at Hagrid. I wantedto, like, I really wanted to

(01:07:34):
read about the match, like it'sthe first match but run is really really
doing well and it's the defining matchthey win the cup and Hagrid is taking
us out of him, and I'mreally mad. It's the reason why I
don't like this chapter so much,because I yeah, because to see the
match, I am just mostly stillconfused about how Wootitch standings were. Now

(01:07:59):
we're not going to into it.I just I think it's just on my
mind because we're working on drafts forvolume three, and there's also some of
that in volume three, and Iwas like, I go back and listen
to episode three seventy three, andJeff explains that, well, I think
there they gave it pretty They gavea pretty good breakdown. Even if he's
going to listen to that bit,it helps kind of, I don't know,

(01:08:21):
sort of, we can't we can'tdo this again, Okay, okay.
I also really like in this bitthat ron has some new confidence now
that the twins are kind of goneand he's not really under their shadow anymore.
And I'm just like, Ronald BilliusWeasley coming into yourself. I love
you. We also get another brilliantLearna hat with a live eagle. Now

(01:08:48):
that's a big bird. Someone doan eagle to al comparison, because I
don't think the difference is that big. How many hats does she have,
she's got a half for everything.How many pets does she have? Like
is it an actual like eagle?Like is that considered real eagle? It's

(01:09:10):
a lie, it's a live eagles. It looks like a live eagle.
Said that it says live eagles.I was like she actually had a lion
on her head. That was likenot eating her. The actual word it
didn't say live lion though, No, no, the okay, the word
is a hold on live eagle.I will read the section to you if

(01:09:35):
I can find it. Luna Lovegoodovertook them with what appeared to be a
live eagle perched on top of herhead. So it's not actually a lie,
I know, but like what appearedto be a live eagle could appear.
The presence of appeared could mean whatappeared to them as a live eagle
or appeared as like it looks likeit is but it actually is not.

(01:09:57):
That could have There's multiple ways thatcould have been interpreted. Should we do
throw back Alohamarra and ask the questionis it alive? Is it a lot
alive? Is being alive? Butis it alive? Listeners? Listener's time
in is the hat alive? Tellus? Please do y? Is the
Hat Alive show is playing in thismatch? Harry is confused? What else

(01:10:24):
is naw? That's real? Ialso I always feel bad for Lee in
this section, because you really seethat, you know, both of his
best friends just like left him behind. And how absorbative observative, I don't
even think that's a word. Howempathetic of Harry didn't even notice that,

(01:10:45):
like Lee kind of lost some ofhis guest I think that's what made it
even more sad, is like youcould tell that he's like trying to live
his normal life, but he's justlost a little bit of his spark.
I was like, I know,do we think the twins like breathe tim
ahead of time, We're like,hey, like we're going to like do
this, and like they did.I don't think they would have just left
him. That would have been messedup. I think they may have said,

(01:11:10):
hey, we're going to leave atsome point, but I think when
they actually left was a lot morespontaneous. Spontaneous I agree, but I
feel like they probably really told himlike we're like like days were leading enough
to like we're kind of like reachingour cap here, like I think we
need to like get out because youknow, well, I'm sure they told
him, you know, like hey, we've got the money for the premises

(01:11:33):
and we're starting the joke shop andwe're probably not going to be at school
much longer, and especially with everythingwith Umbrage, and then you know,
then they lost quidditch and so I'msure they were like, yeah, we're
kind of getting there. But Ithink the actual moment of leaving was a
lot more spontaneous. And I thinkLee probably feels bad that they didn't like
ask him to come with them,Like what were they going to do?

(01:11:55):
Like they go a third siaes andI know it's the reason, and maybe
his goal in life is something different, and yeah, yeah, it just
makes me sad poor, something completelydifferent. Have you ever imagined Drake was
sitting down actually writing this poem aboutBeasley is okay, Like he has to

(01:12:17):
sit down. I just can't.Like that's that's completely that was his task?
Is inquisitorial squad is I'm just like, I want you to write a
poem? Will I want you topractice? I want you to practice,
like you know, that's when youknow your next level talks about is he

(01:12:38):
like is he sitting at the lakewriting poetry or is he in the Slytherin
common room like discussing ideas or likehow does it work? I'm picturing Draco
being like a very pretentious writer personright where he's like a single candlelight and
and a special piece of parchment anda special quill. It's that scene from

(01:12:59):
Star Punch Bob where he spends liketwo hours is writing the tea. I'm
also picturing the Potter puppet pals theSnap's diary one dear Diary. Oh yeah,
Draco definitely keeps a diary where hejust complained all the time. Yes
he does. It's amazing, Likeevery every entry starts with Potter, like

(01:13:23):
like, dear Diary, Potter.Every time it's it's every time, it's
just Potter. It's all the firstthe first word of every single entry is
Potter. Like we're a little obsessedthere, but oh, speaking of people
who are, that was not agood transition. Never mind, for kidding.

(01:13:43):
We gave it an effort. We'restill doing great, everybody. So
Haggard shows up at this at thismatch, he's an absolute mess, But
I think it's so funny that he'strying to be inconspicuous but he's failing,
and he does not realize how badhe is failing. And so he comes

(01:14:04):
and he gets harrying Hermione and theyhead to the forest, which Hairy and
Hermione are both like what. Ido love that bit where like Hagrid keeps
walking to the forest and they're literallystanding at his door and they're like had
and he's like, oh no,we're coming in here, and they're like
what. But he doesn't feel safenow in the forest after the incident with

(01:14:30):
Frenzy, and I just I don'tknow, maybe I was being real sappy
last night. There's a good chance, but I was like, you know,
Hagrid just has such a good heart. He has his faults, yes,
whatever, But I think part ofthe reason I hate when people hate
on Hagrid is because he has sucha true and pure heart. He's always
trying to do the right thing nomatter what, and just that's why I

(01:14:55):
think he's such a lovable character,is because he's just so good hearted and
he's going to care for anyone andanything pretty much like, yeah, Hagrid,
I think he's a he had.You're absolutely right. He has a
really really good heart, but healso gets himself into trouble everywhere, and

(01:15:19):
it's just he's a good he hasa good heart, but he's also so
very frustrating. So I get whypeople don't like reading that much about Hagrid
or don't like him that much eventhough he like Yeah, his his intentions
are always good, but sometimes itreally gets a bit much when he when

(01:15:39):
he pulls other people into his troubleslike he does right now. Yeah,
I was gonna say, Alison,I'm sorry, but this is not the
chapter where I'm going to be given. This is not a love chapter for
me. This is not no.Yeah, this is like I'm about to
choose violence chapter for me when itwhen it comes to Hagrid. But I

(01:16:00):
I do have a speaking of violencetransition. I do have a question.
How do we think Hagrid stopped thisfight? So we have like all of
these centaurs jumping forensy horrible vision,I mean, and honestly, we're talking
about hoofs right like horse like.It's just yeah, it's the violence is
just a lot. How did Hagridstop them? Can you calm centaurs like

(01:16:25):
you calm horses? I think thecentaurs would be I do not envision.
I just imagine like a Hagrid pullingout like a harmonica whenever you said that.
For some reason, I don't knowmy mind went to Fluffy in the
heart. I don't I don't know. I do not think that Hagrid calmed

(01:16:45):
them down. I envisioned something veryopposite. Yeah, I do not envision
him calm. How do we thinkhe stopped them? Like how does one
giant? Like how do you?But didn't they say? It was like
did he care out? Did hegive a number? It was multiple of
them. He has his cross bowwith him nearly all the time. He

(01:17:06):
didn't, he didn't error or anyone, no, no, no, but
he could have threatened, Like heput himself between Forenza and the other centaurs
and just that's what I'm like,how did he even get in between Farensis
on the ground getting stopped? Likewait, like physically, how did Hagrid?
But he is half giant, SoI think, like remember when when

(01:17:27):
when they actually suck him and likeI don't know how many are hitting him
and it just bounces off. Yeah, so I think Hagrid is free.
He says he had He says hehad half the herd onto him, which
yeah, is a lot, Butit sounds like he just kind of stepped
in between basically and just kind oftried to talk them down. And that

(01:17:53):
probably gave FORENSI enough of like amoment to get away. I know I'm
not half giant, but if youif I see, well, let's say
seven just to just to keep thingson par. Seven horses stomping. So
even as a half giant, Ijust physically I cannot wrap my brain around

(01:18:15):
how he could just walk in thereand be like, now we're gonna stop
this right now, like half indoorsman. Yeah, yeah, that that
is some griffindor ish right there.So much courage, that's Hagrid. That's
my Hagrid love for this entire chap. That's all you're gonna get. Oh,
that's the only Haggard love you'll givefor me this entire chapter is the

(01:18:39):
fact that he actually had the gallto step in between that many stomping horses
or centaurs, I guess I shouldcall them. I just keep envisioning the
hoofs, y'all. I just likeI just man, Yeah, I know
that it would be terrifying. Notyou know what, maybe Grup had us
back. Okay, let me chill, let me chill. We can Actually

(01:19:01):
that's not a bad idea. Butspeaking of choosing violence, my turn to
choose violence because Hagrid talks about howhe knows umbragees out for him, and
I'm not gonna lie. That enragesme to like an unreal degree because I
know exactly how it feels to like, Okay, I think I've talked about
this before, but teacher evaluations arelike the worst thing known to mankind.

(01:19:27):
Like I know they're technically important,but every teacher I know freaking hates them.
Like to have somebody in there watchingyou and judging you when they don't
have the full context of everything islike the freaking worst, and it's so
stressful and so add on top ofthat, knowing she's maliciously out to get

(01:19:47):
you and that she's being so underhandedabout it, and that like she potentially
could be planning a way to fireyou in a way that's also humiliating,
Like, nah, there's so muchabout Umbrage that just like I'm so I

(01:20:08):
thought you were gonna say you wereany read Hagrid because he knew all of
that, and then he's so no, no, no, no no,
I choose violence against Ulmbrige. That'sfair, That is that is a horrible
feeling, even if it's not likea teacher evaluation, like being like in
any job like underscrewiny. I mean, I don't know. I remember like

(01:20:31):
back in the day when it wasa thing to put on your resume works
well under pressure. I was thatperson that, like, like, after
like one job, I was like, I will never, I will never.
I will never in my life everclaim that as a skill ever.
Again. I just think people don'tperform well whenever they're being a screwtinized.
Yeah, and especially when you knowthat nothing you do is gonna be good

(01:20:56):
enough because she's already made up hermind. She already is trying to get
rid of you, and so itdoesn't matter. And I'm just like,
oh my gosh, as mad asyou are an umbrage. And that's how
mad I was an agrid that hedidn't listen to hermione and he still proceeded
to go with festals. But youknow, that's another chapter, So that's

(01:21:16):
fine. I think that's a decentlesson actually, But anyway, I also
love how he explains things. Andwe're getting to the namesake of this chapter,
and Harry, bless him, inhis very hairy way, does not
realize what's going on for a whilebut Hermione is freaking like she is absolutely

(01:21:41):
losing her mind. She is cracking. This is a pretty this girl.
This girl is like five seconds awayfrom a breakdown. Like this is a
whole end of this chapter. Sheis like on the knife's edge of a
breakdown. Yes, and then we'reintroduced to grap and let's get into it

(01:22:06):
because this is so controversial. Socan I just start off this part of
this lovely podcast episode by just acknowledginghow nonchalantly Hagrid was like telling the story
about how all this happened, andhe just says something to the effect of,

(01:22:26):
yeah, after my dad, mymom took up with another giant,
And I was like, I'm sorry, what, Like, we're not just
gonna slide past that, Like youdidn't just nonchalantly be like one giant because
she's a human rights giant. Agiant. Yeah his dad was human.

(01:22:48):
Oh you know what, I nevermind this Rumin's my whole point then,
y'all never mind. She had enoughof that human loving and now she's moving
on to giants again. You knowwhat, oh ruined? Y'all forget it.
I'm sorry deleat all of my notesfrom the rest of that the titles
are squandered. The titles are God, they are the whole time. I

(01:23:09):
wait, wait, wait, waswait, and I was like, what
is up with her? Like shewait, I gotta see these child she
Bianca posted in the slack out ofnowhere. She just goes, she just
wait, where is it? Shejust goes. Once you go giant,
you never go back. Can't getenough of that giant love it. And
I'm just like Bianca, what itwas At the very beginning of the episode,

(01:23:31):
I'm like, what are you talkingabout? My God? This entire
time I was thinking with his momthat was you. I'm just gonna I'm
gonna go and mute, no bye, No. His mom is the giant.
So waits his dad, who's gotsome weird Yeah, he likes a

(01:23:53):
tall one. What can we say? And then Fallen Lot think that's all.
What's your what's your what's your?Meet cu? And it happened not
only once. I mean, weknow there are other half giants, you
know. You know the fan ficis out there. You know it's out

(01:24:14):
there. Really don't want to readthat. I don't want to read it,
but it's out there. I wantsomebody tell me racket find I'll the
best fan fiction out there because Ifeel like I'm later to the fandom that
a lot of you know, Whereis it about Haggrid's dad? Listen,
I am I'm curious, please,I mean, I want to know how

(01:24:36):
they got to know each other,and then the rest we can skip.
I want to meet you because inmy mind, I'm like, I'm like,
obviously she had been like shunned fromthe other giants, and then she
came across him and he didn't treather like the other giants, and that's
why she fell in love. Imean, in my mind, that's how

(01:24:56):
it happened. You've got a muchcuter story than I would have come up
with. And I mean she stayedwith him throughout the whole pregnancy, right,
I mean, I mean, isit really a difference? I mean,
this is basically Edward and Bellen.The only differences instead of the only
difference is instead of Edward being massivein physical size, he was. He
was like a massive killer tucked intoa human sized body. But when you

(01:25:20):
think about it, did the samerules not apply? Did he literally not
say multiple times in that series thathe had to be careful every time he
was around her because he could literallyother way other way. But I'm just
saying he doesn't matter talking about thegenders. I'm just saying in general that,

(01:25:42):
like, listen, we need tosegue from this conversation for us appropriated.
I was not at all being inappropriate. I'm just saying, even him
like holding her hand, like hewould be like he would have to need
to move even to move on,even just like the smallest piece of affection
like Edward could barely even like puthis arm around her because he would have

(01:26:04):
to worry about crushing her. Okay, no no no no no no no
no no no no no no Edward, no no Edward, Okay, okay,
okay, Edward was worried about doingstuff with her because he's worried about
hurting her. But in actual likethe other stuff was, he couldn't be
around her physically because of this,not because of her smell. No no

(01:26:26):
no no no no no no nono nah. I read this recently.
It was cat back me up.No, all right, let's move on.
Let's move on. What is it? I don't have the strength to

(01:26:51):
stay away from you anymore. Backto Hagrida, to a twilight process.
Twilight fans meet me in the commentssection. I'm gonna text my friend who's
a big Twilight fan, who wasright? Fana, we could both be

(01:27:12):
right? How about that? Iwill say we did just recently have a
marathon of all five movies. Hecouldn't stand the smell, like you couldn't
be around the smell. Okay,we're yes, Let's let's just get back.
He was talking about Twilight. Okay, what what was this note you
have here about Hagrid My note?I just I think we already covered that.

(01:27:35):
Okay, well we did. Andthen I had a follow up comment
to what Carolyn was saying about itbeing really frustrating because Hagard always gives himself
in really difficult situations. And Iwas just mentioning that this is also a
very relatable thing because most of usprobably know someone in our lives who has
a tendency. I mean, wealso have sabotage, but we know someone

(01:27:58):
who has maybe had maybe it wasall their life or a period of their
life where they did it again andagain, and some of us not have
even been those people look at ashurIs like it's me, and it is
and it is really hard. Ithink for two main reasons. The first
reason is when you really love thatperson, right, is somebody you care
about, someone really close to you. And then the other thing is just
like Hagrid, if it's somebody whohas such a good heart, right,

(01:28:20):
because you're like, but you're sowonderful, why do you keep fing this
up? Like why? I mean, it's like the girl that goes back
to the same type of guy orvice versa. Like we It's all I'm
saying is it's a very relatable situation. I think that is. And of
course this is another reason why thewriting is very relatable and why we're very

(01:28:43):
we're really drawn in because we alldo love Hagrid, right, Like,
yeah, we all know that heis a great person and that he is
so full of love and like there'snot a malicious bone in his body.
That's one of the reasons why itis so frustrating to see that he keeps
putting himself in these situations and then, going back to what Carolyn said,
it becomes doubly that's not a wordI'm saying it. It becomes doubly frustrated

(01:29:06):
a word I'm pretty sure it is. Okay, thank you, just you
just to come to the idea thatit wasn't a word before even like you're
like, yeah, it's probably justnot a word. Yeah, it happens,
and it had sometimes it's not aword whatever I do it. So
that was like the exception and notthe rule. But I think the other
piece, going back to what Carolynwas saying, is that when it really

(01:29:28):
starts to impact other people, that'swhen it really gets I mean, it's
it's beyond like oh now, it'slike, no, you're actually pissing me
off now because why are you draggingHarry and hermione and then for you to
ask them to promise to help youbefore they even knew what it was.
Nah. That's that right there.That's when I'm like, I don't even
nah. He also unintentionally guilted them, if you think about it, because

(01:29:50):
he's also like you need to watchout for him because I'm getting fired and
soon like they felt like they couldn'tsay no talk sy okay, I'm gonna
no, no, no, no, I'm gonna end up for Haggard here.
I wouldn't say it was taught thetoxic. Toxic implies that it's intentional.
I think it's very unintentionally. He'sjust being completely honest, but he
hasn't realized them and seeing like,oh, we need to do this for
him because like we love him andlike see him as like a very like

(01:30:13):
you know, like you know,like paternal figure to us, and we
can't like Okay, okay, Iam going to stand up for Haggard here,
Okay, because this whole situation isso heartbreaking because you have to realize
Hagrid didn't ever have much of afamily. Right, his dad died when
he was about eleven. Okay,his mom leftn Yes, it's really uncertain.

(01:30:42):
Right, everyone he's considered family isbasically being torn away from him.
Right, He's lost Dumbledore at thispoint, who's kind of his father figure.
Madam Maxine, who he's in lovewith, is has kind of left
him too. Right, He's aboutto lose the job he has absolutely loved,
I mean in Prisoner of Azkaban.When he gets the job, he's

(01:31:03):
literally in tears, like bawling becausehe's just so happy and excited. That
also means he's going to have toleave his home. This is like a
fifty something year old man who haslived here since he was eleven, years
old, full time, right,and he's gonna have to leave that if

(01:31:25):
Umbrage kicks him out. And youknow, and the year before this,
his entire family history was put onpublic display and ridicule, okay, which
you know doesn't feel good because he'sobviously very stereotyped in things because of you
know, his parents, not evenhis own fault. And I don't think

(01:31:46):
he meant for Grop to be anyoneelse's problem but his, I honestly don't.
And I think it was only justhow desperate the situation got. That's
the only reason this is happening.And so I mean, I don't know,
I get why it's frustrating, butI also think it's like I guess

(01:32:09):
I understand why. I understand too. I understand why he took him with
him, and I understand why hecouldn't leave him, especially when he was
afraid that the other giants would killhim eventually, Like you can't just leave
your half brother behind. I understandthat, but it's an and here,
I'm not so much frustrated with Hagridbringing grow up. Maybe I'm a bit

(01:32:34):
frustrated with him not really having aplan like what to do, But Okay,
understandable, he didn't really have timeto figure that out. What I'm
incredibly frustrated is is he's pulling Harryand Hermione and Ron into that situation and
he doesn't really need to because andthat's my next point, like English lessons,

(01:32:56):
is that the most like does thatneed to happen right now? Is
that? Is that really like appropriate? Like putting the kids in so much
danger just so grow up can continuewith his English lessons like that. He
wants grew up to socialize, ofcourse, but like where are the priorities?
Why? Why does he have toendanger the kids for that? And

(01:33:18):
that's that's something I'm really not understanding. Well, that's the thing is I
think I think Hagrid in some wayshis own development was a little messed up,
and that's why. And but andhe connects with Harry because if you
think about it, Haggard had togrow up very quickly, right, and
Harry also had to grow up veryquickly in a lot of ways. And

(01:33:41):
so I think that's one of thereasons why Haggard. Haggard almost sees part
of his younger self and Harry,and so I think he forgets sometimes just
how young they really are. AndI mean, and I understand why,
you know, he he wants toteach grow up English, so that grow
up seems normal, right, heseems harmless and he can be accepted by

(01:34:02):
people. And that brings me toa very interesting point that I that I
also want to talk about with theCentaurs a little bit. Is it's a
little weird because we don't know ifgrop is actually supposed to be like a
toddler or if he's being like forcedto assimilate after basically being kidnapped from his

(01:34:24):
home and culture. Like that's neverreally made clear because in some ways,
he comes across as a toddler,right. He throws tantrums like he doesn't
realize how strong he is, andthat's why he hurts people. He's causing
this destruction and not, you know, And and it's a little dicey.
I think, yeah, I think, so here's here's I'm going to go

(01:34:47):
that. And I mentioned my point. I think he's obviously considered full grown
enough, to the point of whichthey wouldn't be like, oh, he's
still growing. That's why he's stillso short, Like obviously he's at like
a full grown stage, But like, do we know how long giant?
Like, why would they ammerely assumethat he's not going to grow to a
certain height if they're automatically like beatingdown him for being sixteen feet where that

(01:35:08):
might maybe maybe he's small for hisage, you know, well I guess
maybe yeah, But I I meanit also probably depends on how how long
do we know? How long giantslive? Because like we know that they
eventually can be like, like,they eventually can be like what's it called,
like negotiated with, so like theyobviously have like a level of like
ability to like negotiate. So Iguess that depends on how long we live

(01:35:29):
because like you know, like andlike everythink like eleven years, like it
lives like a thousand or whatever,so like you know, the first like
two hundred years or so technically youknow teenagers or whatever. But in terms
of grow up as a whole,I honestly, as much as I feel
bad for Hagrid, I can't Ican't justify it because it's very clear that
grow up doesn't want to be there, Like if you have to be physically
bound up to stay there, thenhe does not want to be there.

(01:35:51):
Let him be where he wants tobe. He obviously doesn't view what was
going on to him as bullying becausefrom an outside perspective, like Hagrid is
immerse them like giant, like likeactual giant culture like to them, like
to him, that obviously wasn't consideredlike upsetting or like actual bullying to him
because he wants to go back,like he's not, like he wasn't trying

(01:36:11):
to get out of there, likehe wants to go back to his family.
So obviously he doesn't feel like hewas being bullied. He doesn't because
I mean, again, we we'vetalked about like Harry's abuse, right and
how Harry in a lot of waysdoesn't see it as that until other people
react. So maybe similar things happeningwith Grot like if that's true, but

(01:36:34):
but that that does happen, right, Like people can't make that decision for
someone else, so that you can'tsay like absolutely not like it needs to
be he even if it is Stockholmsyndrome, like if if he is going
to be happier, that like youcan't make a decision. It's like,
oh, you're going to be betteroff here, Like you can't make that
decision for somebody else, like youknow. But that again goes back to
if if Grop is like a child, that is kind of something you have

(01:36:58):
to make the for for a child. And that's where I think a lot
of this gets really murky, isit's like we don't have all these answers
to a lot of this, andso it's like, can we make a
decision. I think that group islike a child. I just I think
the main thing is the giants.Okay, they have their own culture,
right, Hagard doesn't speak the language, Like he literally took this here and

(01:37:20):
from his home, tied him toa tree in a forest with all of
these other creatures, Like I'd bepulling up trees too, like literally literally
what else is he supposed to do? And even and let's just pretend like
he did have company and and yes, even if you don't speak the language,
you know, obviously there's like bodylanguage and everything, but he literally

(01:37:41):
really can like he does not understand. Yeah, like I feel like even
I mean I and I do seewhat you mean as far as like we
don't have the information as far aslike his age and like how you know
far along he is in life,but I also feel like even as an
adult, if you get taken fromyour home and you're tied up and like
you you don't even under saying whatpeople are saying to you, Like he's
really disoriented, Like his behavior isjustified. I do think that Hagard was

(01:38:05):
obviously torn between a rock and ahard place. Did anybody make the parallel
that is kind of similar to whathe did with FERENSI, Like Farensi was
being beat up by his own peopleand then he saved saved him, and
then Forenzi is like sentient, hecould know that he needed help. Yeah,

(01:38:25):
but again that's the same Baine.He even said, like your ways
are not our ways. If thegiant ways is if you're a runt,
then you know you get bullied.If that's the giant way, then it's
like the Forrenzi. But Frenzi likeis able to like obviously was articulate in
the fact that he was in distressbecause he's one we don't know where would

(01:38:47):
say like Grop. Grop doesn't.It doesn't seem like Grop was like like
a Forenzi wouldn't go back tomorrow andgo like, you know, screw around
with the other centaurs again, likehe's like I'm out of there, like
I don't want to get like killed, wants to go back, is actively
trying and I have anything. Iwould say that at most grop Is like

(01:39:09):
would be like considered like developmentally delayed. And that's why we've kind of aren't
sure about his age. Is thatincluding the fact that he's like smaller and
the kind of the runt he has, those other characteristics are run where he's
also like developmentally like not at thesame level of like ability to process things
that the other giants made, whichis why and that could be also because
they don't value the idea of likeeducating him correctly because he's like, oh

(01:39:31):
well, he's the run like he'snot going to like survive, so we
might as well not bother. Haridtalks about the giants like he says,
the one chief you could kind ofcommunicate and then he was killed, and
the other chief you couldn't really communicate. So I like the way he talks
about the giants. It doesn't seemlike group is so much different from them,

(01:39:53):
Like they were very happy that theone chief could speak English, and
I don't think so anybody obviously hasless, but they obviously have more personal
control than grop is like you know, exhibiting, and that could totally because
he's like currently locked up, soto speak, and that's like him just
acting out with the fact that helike he's not allowed to do or do

(01:40:14):
what he wants to do. Butit seems like he's very much like ooh,
play with the fun trees like youknow, like you know, do
like like random so without like he'slike doing like random things. I'm like,
yeah, I guess I could seelike him like kind of having disability
and that's kind of why he isthe way he is. I guess I
could see that being very like youknow, like like that like that coded
like from a perspective of someone thatis disabled. And I'm like, yeah,

(01:40:34):
I guess like he's playing with thetrees like he's like making them spring
back, like he's like you know, fidgeting with them, like he's not
Like I wouldn't. I would saythat more of the giants would like would
be like more like quote unquote matureand would be like you know, hoolding
around like that. But guys,they're walking around free and they can do
whatever they want that too. ButLike who's to say that he wasn't doing

(01:40:55):
that already, Like it seems likethey were alienating him for more than just
a size, Like it seems likeit is more than one thing, Like
he was to say he wasn't walkingaround the giant compound or whatever, just
like flicking trees around, Like,isn't there's something somewhere in one of these
books where maybe it's Goblet of Fireor whatever we're on, I don't remember
when it was or who said it, but wasn't there something somewhere about how

(01:41:15):
one reason the giants don't last,don't live a long time is because they
end up killing each other. Yeah, okay, So that's what I was
going to say. Is again,like it's very I mean, I'm not
saying it's right. I mean,of course it's not right for us,
just like it's not right for Farensito begin in his butt kicked pun intended.
It's not right. But at theend of the day, that is
their culture. So it's like Hagridis taking him away from like giant culture

(01:41:42):
because he's you know, calling himselfthe hero and because you know, to
Alison's point, like he doesn't reallyhave anybody else, like, I mean,
I think at the end of theday, it's it's not black and
white. It's not right or wrong, right, it's no, And I
think I think that actually is partof the point of where I think when
people really dismiss Grop. I mean, there's so much here, right,
There's so many questions that get broughtup by this whole situation. And I

(01:42:05):
have more when we get to theCentaurs when they show up, because I
have a lot of thoughts. Butyeah, no, it is. It
is a very dicey and gray andcomplex situation that I think there isn't necessarily
a right answer to. Even MadamVaccine was like, you know what,

(01:42:28):
I tried, but I'm out.Yeah. Yeah, like she tried,
and she did that for a whileand then she was like, I just
can't anymore. But it's funny becausewe also know that Grop does become it
sounds so bad to say he becomesuseful, but we all know that he
ends up helping out in the fight, so he does well, he can't
understand fighting, he understands like hegot to a point where he understood like

(01:42:53):
good versus evil, and he stoodon the side of good. So I
guess her mind, he really canteach anyone. Do we ever find out
does anyone ever like in between thosebooks or is it just Hagrid? It's
kind I think it's kind of Yeah, I also prepared lessons, but no,

(01:43:15):
I mean, like I thought itcould be subtextically, we kind of
like are to assume that her mind, they were keeping up to their ends
of the deal and like going tolike visit him continuously, even more so
than you see like depicted with thelast couple of chapters. She's kind of
like, you don't think so.I think it would have said something because
I was I was scrolling through becauseI was looking through, and they talked
about like at one point, likechapter like thirty the next chapter that like,

(01:43:36):
oh crap, is starting to likeprogress nicely. I think Haggard says
that I thought it because they theyonly like they only promised to do that
once Hagrid is sacked. And howmuch time goes by from Hagrid being sacked
and then the whole thing with theministry hitting the fan, and there's not

(01:43:59):
a lot of time that's fair.Yeah, But I really do think in
this case though, Haggard is absolutelyhis actions are driven by his heart,
right He's it's his feelings, hisneed for family, and that's you know,
I don't think he had any otheridea. Agrid's actions are driven by
his heart throughout this and this isno different than a circumstances. Hagrid's actions

(01:44:25):
are ways driven by his heart,even even more so than normal I mean
book by the way, Book one, Fluffy nor Burt, Nah, this
is have habit is repeating the sametypes of mistakes over and over and over

(01:44:48):
again throughout this entire series. Yeah, but paid off, Alison, you
were right, by the way.It was in chapter three that like Hagrid
says like, oh, grap isforgotten, saying nicely, I'm gonna trying
to find him a lady friend orsomething. Oh yeah, lady friend.
I forgot the lady friend. Solike he's got to be old enough to

(01:45:08):
have like a like a like afemale part. I guess, yeah,
okay, who knows. I don'tknow what's happening with that situsion, but
kind of related to that though.They run into the centaurs as they're leaving
the forest, and the centaurs arevery angry at Hagrid because he protected Farenzi

(01:45:29):
who broke the norms of the Centerculture, and they say that he's peddling
the Centaur's knowledge and secrets and that'sa very dishonorable thing. And for some
reason my brain very much went tothis is a parallel for colonialism a little
bit, and then that that broughtme to some other questions because Bain,

(01:45:51):
I think, says, well,the forest is ours, right, and
so I was like, wait asecond, were the centaurs there was the
forest there before Hogwarts was built?Or was the forest planted or put there
after the castle was built and theschool was there, Because that's going to
cause some complications, right, arethey actually moving on to the Center's land

(01:46:15):
or are they like kind of alljust here together? Is this it gets
very messy again, That's what I'msaying. No, that's a good question.
I also wonder I don't think theyplanted the forest, Like looking at
the history of yeah, Europe orEngland or Scotland, like it's very foresty

(01:46:40):
and forest like people made the forestdisappear and not like really planted more forest.
So for me, it feels morelike there was a huge giant forest
with lots of magical creatures, andlike it kept getting smaller and smaller and
smaller, and now you have theproblem of it not being big enough for

(01:47:00):
everyone. I would I would agreethat the forest was there first, but
I don't think that answers the questionof where the centaurs there first. And
even if the centaurs were, they'refor first. Can you stay claim to
an entire forest just because you werethere? I mean, and I don't.
I don't know if we ever havean actual scope of how big the

(01:47:25):
Forbidden forest is. Like I knowthat we know that it goes deep,
but we don't actually know how deep. Is it like half an acre?
Is it like ten acres? Likeare their territories? Because we also know
that if you keep going to acertain extent, then you get to like
where the spiders are. So Ijust think, and I mean, we'll
probably never really have an answer,but yeah, but I remember that comment

(01:47:46):
strucking me as well, when hewas like our forest. I was like,
whoa homie, how you just gonnaclaim an entire forest? That to
me is just a stretch. Ormaybe it's because they're human and God knows
humans will go when someone else's territorya claim it is there as well.
Let me chill out. Yeah,I mean, but I do think it's

(01:48:09):
possible for different like cultures, differentpeople's, different species whatever, to exist
harmoniously together. So that's the otherthing that it's like, are the centaurs
refusing to do that or is therea reason why? You know, Sorry,
I feel like I'm there was somethingin Fantastic Beasts that talked about.

(01:48:29):
But I think the that they're notrefusing, right, they like, they're
They're very happy in the forest asfar as we know. And then Hagrid
comes in with Grop and causes problemsthrough crap. Well, Hagrid was already
there and they already had I thinkthey were. They were already good.
It was Grop that Yeah, that'swhat I'm saying, Like everything was fine,

(01:48:53):
they were fine with each other,and then Hagrid came with Grop.
Like, Hagrid was there, everythingwas fine, but then he brought Well
was it Grop first or then?And then the frenzy issue was the opposite.
I think Fornsy was first, butwas first, right, No,

(01:49:14):
Brock would be first because Hagrid wouldhave had to be back to come.
That's a good point I think aboutthat. So then so then like Grop
was already like them, they're alreadymad. And then friends the Frenzy thing
was like, okay, we're done. Oh so basically this, I mean,
the centaur has already had a reasonto be mad, and it was
just like Grop was just the icingon the cake. It was like,

(01:49:35):
not only no, it was theopposite, the opposite Grop. First then
Forrenzy, yes, okay, butno, no, no, I'm not
take Hagrid out of the picture.Oh but but Hagrid had no I think
I think became a teacher before Haggridwas back. No, because Hagrid he

(01:49:57):
didn't because like like they just said, Hagrid had to be back on campus
in order to stop them from frombeing right, we don't know, and
then came back like how do wewas it like, because it's like first
day we do where he was becauseFenzi forenzi Is becomes teacher after Trelawney gets
sacked and the chapter that happens inis the Centaur and the Sneak, which

(01:50:23):
is and Harry and Hermione mentioned toothat, oh, Hagrid, you didn't
bring your crossbow the day that wewent and saw the festals, and Hagrid
says, well, we weren't goingas far and the centaurs weren't after me.
So chapter twenty seven, The Centaurand the Sneak is when Farensi first

(01:50:43):
starts teaching, So this would havehappened about the time, uh, right
after that Hagrid backing, and soonly he only upcomes teacher after they get
they be him up because it's likehe becoming a teacher. They beat him
up, and then he like becomesa teacher. Okay, so it's flipped.

(01:51:05):
So Forensi becoming a teacher was moreof the icing correct and Hagrid defending
him like they were already. Theywere already they were already like you know,
pissed off about the growth situation andthe frenzy thing was like that was
it, Like they're okay, Andthen Hagrid had the audacity to put into
their business correct on top of alreadyscrewing up the equals, like the the

(01:51:27):
ecosism the forest. Okay, SoI've been looking at the thing to try
and figure out centers being native.Right. The center this is from Fantastic
piece. Center is forest dwelling.Centers are believed to have originated in Greece,
though there are now center communities inmany parts of Europe. Wizarding authorities
in each of the countries where centersare found have allocated areas where the centers
will not be troubled by muggles.So I swear though I've seen something somewhere

(01:51:54):
about specifically the Hogwarts centaurs and that. But again, I guess that doesn't
clear much up because that's still ButAlison, I feel like it was talked
about on this and I think maybein one of the older episodes. I
don't know if you were on it, but I do feel like this has
come up before. Like, leaveit to listeners. I'm sure one of

(01:52:15):
them will know where to. Yeah, So, listeners, if you have
information that I'm forgetting somewhere about thespecifically the Hogwarts center heard and how they
got there, let us know,please. So Harmione has a bit of
a breakdown, which who can blameher? And this is actually ring theory

(01:52:39):
to the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, where she's starting to have a breakdown
from the stress of the time.Turner and I have never noticed that before
breakdown all around? Did anybody elsethat I never get I never figured out
ring theory. I just I've givenit up. I'll figure someone else to
bring it up that won't pay me. And speaking of hermione, that can

(01:53:00):
can somebody check something for me?If you have the US edition I looked?
Are the PDFs the US edition?Are the pds? Okay? And
in which case she says no withan exclamation fascinating because that changes the entire
meaning of it. I don't thinkso. I think it's more like no
like like kind of like like kindof like questioning like no, like like

(01:53:23):
like it can't be true, versuslike no, like it's like it's the
same like emphasism, like being surprised. I think it depends on how you
read it. But but it's not. It's a different kind of surprise.
If she's saying it like I meansurprised that he's suddenly like no, no,
no, no. But I'm justsaying it changes what her actual reaction

(01:53:43):
is because if she says no withan exclamation point, that that's more of
like she's actually like stunned and shockedright like yeah, like she didn't believe
he could ever do this, whereasa no with a question mark is a
little bit more like no, right, like I think he actually did it
right? Different, I think it'sthe same shock like yeah, different,

(01:54:09):
no he did it like no,he did it like, it's the same
thing. I think a question markmore like no am I hearing that?
Right? Did we actually won?Surprise? Yeah? I think it's the
same surprise. I think I thinkit really just at the emphasis. Uh,
I guess maybe it's my maybe,maybe it's my maybe it's my tone,
my tone indicator thing, but like, I feel it's the same thing.

(01:54:30):
I find that fascinating though, too, because why change it? You
know, why change punctuation? It'snot like a word of that could cause
confusion. And so I've never noticedthat before and I just noticed it this
time and I was like, waita second, because I think that's a
very different reading possibility there, andthat has some very interesting implications, right

(01:54:58):
because if she's saying no, likeshe's absolute shocked, like she didn't believe
he could do this, then that'sa very different ron Hermione dynamic then.
But they all established and none ofthem believe they could do it because when
they're walking away with Haigridy's like whoyou scored? Like, oh, probably
Ravenclaw, like they weren't even likeColt even entertaining the idea that it was

(01:55:19):
anything other. They first entertained theidea a little bit when they said,
oh, maybe he's doing better whenwhen Fred and George are not there,
and then the first goal is againI don't know how much they were actually
being the serious, but it does. I think it does. It just
it's a very different feeling to changethat, and I don't know why they
would have changed it. And that'sthe thing I'm most curious about is why

(01:55:42):
change that? Why, you know, like, oh, fascinating, I
honestly don't think it's not different,but to teach their own ashtych autism.
But gryvend Or wins yay. Ron'sa hero, yay. And we end
this on a very good note oncethis chapter. But to kind of wrap

(01:56:02):
things up, I wanted to bringout because this chapter and Grop's introduction at
all, a lot of people reallyhate it, and they're like, you
should just cut this, it shouldnot exist. What's the point of him?
And I think my thought was atthe end of this book, Grop
kind of could be seen as aDusts machina. But this chapter is kind

(01:56:29):
of counteracting that from being the caseI'm sorry, he could be seen as
a what can you please explain thatwhat you just said? Yeah, so
so do sex machina is shoot?Is it Latin? Greek? But the
phrase basically means yeah, like thegod of the machine, and it comes
from old like play Greek play orwow, now I'm based Is it Latin?

(01:56:57):
It comes from the idea in playswhere all of a sudden, here
the people in the play would besaved by, you know, the god
coming down from the sky on amachine, right, which is like the
the ropes the Pulley system basically ofa stage, and that like saves everyone

(01:57:17):
and solves all the problems. Andso people say that when there's almost a
too convenient savior that that shows upsuddenly at the end of something. So
like a lot of people sometimes considerFox and the Sorting Hat at the end
of Chamber of Secrets kind of aducess machina just interesting something for the sake

(01:57:40):
of it being the savior later onessentially kind of yeah, but now that
makes sense a lot of times too, they haven't even been introduced. If
it's a ducet machina, like itjust that's the first time it shows up,
and so I feel like this chapterin this incident is here to kind
of counteract that happening at the end, because Grop is how they get away

(01:58:03):
from Umbridge, and I think it'sjust not as well done as it could
have been, and that's the whyeverybody has a problem with it. Like
I think it's it's got good intentionsof being here, but it's a little

(01:58:24):
CLUMSI leader. I think the problemis afterwards it's just dropped, like we
don't hear about him. Yeh.That's strange because otherwise it would have make
make sense. And actually, likethe whole plot with the centaurs and then
group stepping in is I think areally really nice resolution. But then when

(01:58:47):
Grov is not picked up again,it seems like, oh, he's just
there to help them out there.It's like in the movies where they drop
Dobby, like what three or fourmovies, and then all of a sudden
he shows up a creature and you'relike, oh, I forgotten who existed
in the series, welcome back.Oh and then you died. So yeah.

(01:59:08):
So I think people maybe have apoint about hating on group, But
I also think there's some good stuffin this chapter, and there's some important
things that are kind of brought up. I agree, I think I was.
I was really surprised whenever I heardthat there was so much controversy about
this chapter. Also because Hagrid isjust doing what Haggard has been doing since

(01:59:29):
the beginning of time. So Iwas also like, I don't know why
I were making such a big dealabout grop. No one was really that
surprised, like come on, AndI do also think there are good things
other I mean even like Ron winningand learning more about the centaurs. I
thought there was some good stuff inhere too. So good good chat everyone,
So wrapping up this chapter. Carolyn, Caroline, Carolina, thank you

(01:59:56):
all so much for joining us.Yes, all of you above, thank
you so much for joining us.We have really enjoyed having you on the
show. Do let us know.Is there any place that you want the
listeners to visit you online? Anythingyou want to share? Well, Also,
thank you for me. It wasso nice being on the podcast after
having listened to it for five yearsnow through all of the episodes, it's

(02:00:20):
been really bizarre, but really niceto be on. And I'm not really
that much online, but if you'reon Patreon and in the discord server,
I am Phoenix Feather goes woosh,so good, so you can find me

(02:00:42):
there. I've seen I've seen youruser in the discord before. Yes,
I've been commenting on the Ring theorybecause I've after listening through all the episodes
and I'm doing all the patrons andyeah, yeah, I recognize that you
recognize your user an you mention that, Yes, And our next episode we

(02:01:03):
are going to go over a chapterrevisit for Goblet of Fire, chapter twenty
seven, Padfoot returns. I don'tknow that chapter. Is that the one
when he comes back in the fire. No, that's when they meet him
in the cave in eating rents hogsmead. Yeah, and he's living on rats

(02:01:23):
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theaters. I don't remember anything aboutthat chapter, so let me make sure
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aside from the video that you're seeing. Bonus episodes and more. It's a
really fun time hike you recommend.You're very awesome. I appreciate that.
And I'm Bianca and I'm Allison.Thank you for listening to episode three hundred
and eighty five of Aloon Mora HermieOpen the Dumbling Door an okay recorded stop.

(02:04:31):
Aloha Mora is produced by Tracy Dunstonand edited by Patrick Musleak, who
was co created by Noah Freed andKat Miller, and is brought to you
by AP WBD LLC. Oh,what am I gonna do for Open the

(02:04:58):
Dumbledore today? Do you like legslike struck Struck Struck struck open, pumped
through the Dumbledore Again. I'm tryingto think of something to do with crop.
These times are still great. Ripripped the dumble Door open with them.

(02:05:25):
I mean herme is kind of likeher Mini from Crump, you know,
Okay, so like an enemy.I love it. Also, I
really jumped off of you saying yourlast name Beyonca, and I was like,

(02:05:45):
I got criticized for saying my lastname one of the other episodes,
but like you did finished this episode. Sorry, Sorry, I'm gonna let
you. We're gonna let you finish, but please let me finish. Can
we just wait, wait, holdon, can we just do the outro

(02:06:08):
again? Please? Because wait,we can do the outro at least five
Taylor Swift songs during this episode.I want you guys to know that,
can we do the outro again sowe can of the last names, because
I'm going to overanalyze that if wedon't, John, I don't say your
last name, well we'll go fromthere and just offcase. Then you just
like took the last line of Patreon. So I was still trying to Like

(02:06:30):
I was trying to you. Youtold me to, you said, just
do it. Okay, there's thesixth one. There you go.

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