OOTP, 34 Revisit: Mundane & Exceptional

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
This is episode four hundred and eighty of Aloha Mora
for November twenty ninth, two thousand and twenty five. Welcome

(00:38):
to another episode of Aloha Mora, The Phantom's Original Harry
Potter Book Club. I'm Jeff Hutton, I'm Alison Sigurd.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
And I'm Kat Miller, and we have the pleasure today
of introducing our beloved friend and former BEEP, who has
a very strong connection to the show and also a
current connection to the show because of the person they're
married to. We'll get there.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Meg. Hi, Hi, everyone break.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
As listeners may have inferred, we all love Meg. We
are all friends with Meg. Good people, and we're super,
super super excited to have you here. Before we get
into like your connections with the show, tell us about
your like Harry Potter journey, favorite book, all that jazz,
your house of course.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, I'm a ravenclaw thunderbird. Favorite book is Goblet of Fire.
Favorite movie is also Goblet of Fire, which I know
is controversial, but of all the movies, it's just the
one that is like the most like good time, you know,
I always always feel happy watching it because of the silliness. Yeah,

(01:45):
and been a longtime Potter fan. It's about two thousand
and one when I read the first book, and yeah,
I have a connection with the Loohamora. I started my
Muggle nit journey when I became a transcriber for Aloha
Mora in Gosh twenty twelve, twenty thirteen. I think it was.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, that sounds I mean right at the beginning, that
sounds right.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
So yeah, I was. I was there kind of at
the start, and then for a while I was even
the senior transcript editor of alohamra.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
She rose through the ranks and then we were like,
We're like, we're not going to do transcripts anymore. They
are two time consuming and too expensive today.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
It was a lot. I remember many many nights of
it was like I was in college and it would
be like, Okay, I have to transcribe my segment and
I have to email everyone else to get their segments
and patch them all together, and you know, I look
back and it was it was. I really enjoyed it,
and I have fond memories of that, but it was
it was a lot. Yeah, may I ask a question, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
It was.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I was fascinated when you said that your favorite movie
was Goblet of Fire, which I appreciate because I always
love when people pick the not as popular ones. Is
there a particular scene or moment from that movie that
just makes you go, oh, this is why I love
this one.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
And how do you feel about the hair? That's the hair, the.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Most important the hair.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
The hair is bad, but like some good but something
about the hair, like I remember watching it in theaters
and you know, being aghast at the hair. But looking
back now, I'm like, that is so two thousand and five,
and something about that warms my heart. But but for
me it's so you know, Goblet of Fire, it's kind
of silly and rambunctious the entire movie, except for the

(03:36):
graveyard scene at the end. I think that is just
like one of the most perfect scenes in the movie
and all of the movies. Honestly, they got it completely right,
that the tone was perfect, And whenever I watch that
movie now, it's all just like leading up to that moment,
I feel like where I'm like, oh, they nailed this.
The music. Oh, I love the score. Also for Goblet

(03:57):
of Fire, the Voldemort theme is so good.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh God, the part where it like wom wohh, you know,
like that noise, whatever that noise is, is it a therement?
I feel like it's a theramy, like.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
He's coming up out of the cauldron.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
But yeah, the entire like nine and a half minute
long track that's just called Yeah, it's so good.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
And that's why it makes me so happy that the
movie commentary episode of the show that we recorded, Sir Patrick,
the founder of the Feast, the composer of that excellent score,
was our guest. And the insights that he offered on
that episode on just his whole process of creating that score,
it just it was the coolest thing, by far, one

(04:42):
of the best episodes we recorded.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Oh, I'm gonna have to listen to that.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Agree with that? Yeah? Definitely? Yeah, give that guy a listen,
and if you want to talk about it. If you don't,
you happen to be married to somebody who also was involved.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
I I am married to a previous host of Alohimora,
Eric Skull. Yeah, and you know they have they have
their podcast muggle Cast, which I started listening to in
two thousand and five.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
You might have heard of it.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
You might have heard of it.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Some people may be familiar.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
People might know it. And then yeah, joined MuggleNet met
Eric in real life at nineteen years later in Orlando,
and the rest is history, and I.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Were dated behind everybody Okay, no, it's okay, we love it.
We love it, and then we all thread.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
Out when we found out and we were also, oh.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
My god, I will never forget Allison. Allison, you came
up to me and you were like, are you Eric dating?
Did you did? I just see you kiss real quick,
and I had to come clean because.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
I did at New York Comic Con, Like, as I
running around this try to run this, I was like, wait,
what it was?

Speaker 3 (05:57):
It was the one with Dan Foelgler when he came
in and I didn't know where he was or what
was going on, and you like planted him next to
me and you were like, Meg, please watch him. I did.
I did.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
I did because I think I just.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Loved that all of these significant milestones are at NERD
Gatherings nineteen years later is where you meet New York
Comic Con, is where your relationship is outed.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yeah, and I was. It was so funny too, because
at that panel I was going crazy because I was
helping to run it and it was just like chaotic
and I think Dan, I'm pretty sure it was high,
and that's why we were like, oh my gosh. And
I was like, I need someone calming meg.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and that's when I had to pinch to nerve
in my head. So every time I moved, I was
dizzy and falling over. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
It was craziness. It was.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
And then like out of the corner of my eye
I saw that and I was like what, no, no, no,
it was right, and I was so excited.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, and your you two are only you are one
of two married couples who met on MuggleNet, which is
super exciting. We love that. Wow, we love that over Buddy,
Felicia and John.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Oh my god, that's right.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
There might be others that I'm unaware of, but I
feel like I would know or somebody would know. It's
a secret.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
No one has seen them smooching at New York Comic comments.
That'll be in the future.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, rolling on from those incredible good times we had
in the past, and we're super duper happy to have
you here with us today.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I want to remind folks that the first time we
talked about this chapter, which is chapter thirty four of
the Department of Mysteries in order of the Phoenix, of course,
was episode one hundred and twelve entitled Goosebumps All the
Way Back in November twenty fourteen, with hosts Eric, myself, Michael,
and guest Keith. So, if you would like to extend

(08:00):
you are listening pleasure when it comes to this chapter,
those the right words, Those are the right words. Those
feel good. Go back and listen to episode one hundred
and twelve before continuing to consume this one, or listen
to it after and see how many things we talked
about that were the same, because that definitely is going
to happen.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
I think it's fun and incredibly sweet that Eric was
on the last time we talked about this. Now, Yeah,
it's almost like it's come full circle.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Almost.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, totally unplanned.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
I probably transcribed that episode.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, probably, you probably did.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
I was one of the few people who could tell
the difference between Eric and Michael they're speaking voices.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I remember that there was a lot of issues with
that with the transcribers.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
I always found that slight. I wonder if.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
I was just thinking about how much easier it is
these days to make transcripts for episodes because of AI. Yeah,
and I feel like, obviously we want to keep jobs,
we want transcribers to have jobs. But maybe for an
instance like this, this is a place where AI could
actually be not terrible.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, you know, I have I despise AI, especially like
creative AI. Like I'm an artist, so anytime I see
AI art, I'm like, this is just slop. This is
this is this is plagiaristic slop that I do. I
transcribe for Mogo cast now, and I first put it

(09:24):
into an AI program called otter, and you know, it
does it does a pretty good job of getting like
the first draft. But I do take a little bit
of pleasure in knowing that it's not perfect. It makes
a lot of mistakes. It sometimes can't tell between people,
It messes up spelling. Even if you put in like

(09:45):
vocabulary like learn this, get it right, it's still messes
up all the time. And that's where I come in,
and I make it look nice.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's the good way to use it. I use it
to fix Excel formulas that I can't figure out how
they're broken, which I feel like is an okay use
of AI, because sometimes the Internet just doesn't have the
exact answer that you need, or you don't know how
to google the words you know. So but that's okay.
I'll learn from it and then I don't ever use
it again. Yeah, but anyway, it can be.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
A good learning tool. But yeah, I don't want it
to create anything.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
No, no, I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's a unique human thing exactly. Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Well. Before we get into our episode today, we need
to take a moment to thank our Patreon sponsor for
this episode. So thank you so much to Madison for
being our sponsor of this episode. Than our Patreon offers
a lot of really great perks, including ad free episodes,

(10:46):
monthly meetups with the hosts, and so much more. Perks
start at just three muggle dollars a month, so head
over to patreon dot com slash alohomra to become a sponsor.
And if you're looking for non monetary ways to support
the show, so you can always subscribe, save and share
this episode or the entire show with your friends in
your favorite Harry Potter communities. And we appreciate the support

(11:10):
of every single one of our listeners however you are able.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
To do so, thank you again.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Madison, Thank you Moson, You're right.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Three turns Should do It?

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Chapter revisit Drama Phoenix, Chapter thirty four.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
The Department of Mysteries.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
In an effort to save Sirius from Baltimore as Harry
saw on his dream, he Ron, Harmione, Ginny Neville, and
Luna rush off to the Ministry of Magic on the
backs of festals. After a harrowing flight for all of them,
though more so for some, they arrive and get their
proper badges, declaring they're they're in a rescue mission. The
Ministry is oddly empty, but that doesn't stop Harry from

(12:02):
hurtling it to the Department of Mysteries, desperate to find
his beloved godfather. Though he's walked this path in his
dreams many times, Harry discovers this dark corridor is not
what he expected. The group traverses through strange and disturbing
rooms filled with brains, time, locked doors, and otherworldly archway.
At last, they find Row ninety seven in the Hall

(12:23):
of Prophecy, but Sirius is not there. What is there
is an orb labeled with Harry's name and the Dark Lord,
an orb that has determined Harry's life to this point
and will dictate what comes next.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
I think that's a great summation. Good job.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
I think, yeah, And you said you didn't really know
where you were going with the description, but like they
don't really know where they're going in the story.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
That's true, they don't, so I think it's perfect.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, And there are so many moments like that, because
Harry climbs on the thestial and he's like, go to the
Ministry of magic if you know how to do it,
and then he tells this disembodied voice, we're here to
do a thing unless you want to do it Forla,
which is fine. I just love that it begins with
Harry struggling to get on this thestial because up until now,

(13:11):
like he's even acknowledged that he's a good flyer. But
when he's on a broom, which is an object, and
the enchantments that they put on brooms to make them fly,
however it works. It almost makes them feel like you're
writing something that can think for itself. Sometimes probably, but
this is a living, breathing creature that you have to

(13:34):
actually show I would imagine at least some kindness to
or it won't do what you're going to say, and
Harry is struggling to get on it and he stumbles.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
I yeah, it.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
Must be so terrifying to write a thesteral, especially if
you can't see it. Like I was thinking about this,
and I was like, Harry, Ginny and Ron are just
literally because they can feel it, right, they can feel
that their yeah, yeah, but they can't see anything. And
so literally, you'd be like floating above the ground and

(14:06):
you can feel something underneath you, but you can't see it.
And then you're in the sky.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Mile miles above the ground.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
And they go fast. I think Harry says like he
had never moved faster, right, it's it's a take it
fly really faster than his fire bolt even. Yeah, And
so I was just like, I mean this alone marks
the three of them as Gryffindors because I love flying,
and I this freaks me out. The thought of this
freaks me out.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Never how fast do you think they're going, because like,
imagine if you're driving seven on average, I would say,
if you're driving down an interstate in the United States
of America, average speed limits about seventy miles per hour.
But if you're driving that in a convertible with the
top down. That's not going to be a pleasant sensation.
You're not going to want to do that.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Wait, how fast?

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Seventy miles per hour.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
In a convertible? Yeah, easy peasy, baby.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
That does not sound happ That does not sound like
a good time. Fifty five miles per hour on the
highway maybe, but seventy miles no, ninety. Actually, let's go nowhere.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, I have a convertible and can confirm it's amazing.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Well, okay, so wonderful. It's I'm looking up as the
Carlos six hundred. Yeah, it's almost six hundred miles on
the M six from Scotland to London from like the
top of Scotland, well maybe about mid Scotland to London.
So driving it takes like ten and a half hours. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
They are on the train literally.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
All day, yeah, the entire day.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah. Okay, So as the crow flies this website that
I like, it's actually freemaptools dot com. Yeah, says the
road journey is about nine hours distance as the Crow flies.
So wait, distance by land is four hundred and ten
ish miles as the Crow Flies is three hundred and
forty eight miles, so it's not that much shorter they're on.

(16:03):
They've got to be on these sesstrals for like, yeah,
a solid six hours at the minimum.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
They're gonna notice, is it going from light to dark?

Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, and they get like, you can't move.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
In Britain in the middle of June, sunset's going to
be at like nine or even ten pm maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
See.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
My stepdad once explained to me why planes fly the
way they do. And he even I forget exactly how
he because he broke down the math in a way
that I never could. But he talked about how if
it was possible for planes to fly all the way
up and then down in like a triangle formation, it
would take a fraction of the time for planes to

(16:44):
travel the distances that they do. And planes can already
get there, you know, a lot faster than driving. But
I kind of feel like I wish it was possible
for them to do that with these thestrals, because they
would get there so much quicker. But then again, the
thing about flying on the back of an animal as
opposed to in an airplane is that the higher up

(17:06):
you get, you're not going to be able to breathe
because the oxygen is going to get crazy thin up there.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
It's going to get so cold up there too. Your
hands are going to be like so brittle, Like how
are you going to be holding on even well?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, and Harry even says it as eyes are dry.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, they were already at the beginning of the book
when they were getting hairy to grim old place. They
were talking about flying through clouds. How high up do
you have to be to even be like I've been
in I've been in airplanes. You have to be up
pretty high.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, you can. You can be in the clouds. Yeah,
you can hike a short, small mountain and be in
the clouds. Right.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
The lowest level clouds are about sixty five hundred.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
Still it's a mountain and it's still though, it's I mean,
you can well, And I wonder they maybe they had
a tail wind. Maybe that's part of how they get
there so quickly. Tail You get a tailwind, and you
can you can cut some time off of something right,
like in a plane, and you can cut off a

(18:07):
good half an hour.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
I'm not sure that those will go north south though,
but yeahs.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Like know to like fly in like a V formation.
They might like to gain each other speed. Yeah, they
are pretty just you're like honking, you look up and
it's a little flock of or you don't see anything
at all.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Oh see, that's another thing that I didn't even think about.
What if, like, if you've seen death, then you look
up and you see six teenagers flying on the horses.
I haven't seen death, just up in the air going.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Like their legs tucked in.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, because Harry and Rod almost got kicked out of
school for muggle seeing that flying car. You're telling me
not a single Muggle sees them on the back of
these thestals, not one.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
I wonder if being on the the festals makes them
somewhat invisible in some way.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Oh smart, because you've seen death and they're not invisible, Well.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Then then they're not invisible and you see a creature. Yeah,
I mean I hear yeah. I think part of that
is it's the reverse journey. So in the car they
started in highly populated London. Yes, they almost certainly were
going to be seen. It's the middle of the.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Towards and it's dark, so if you looked up, you'd
probably see like six little black specks and you'd think.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
That birds a big bat.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, six really big bets.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
Do they fly in a V formation though, because it
says that, like there, I don't.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Know, I kind of imagine Harry everyone behind him.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Well yes, but but it says in the chapter that
like they're holding on because of his slipstream, So I, yeah,
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
It's sure. Maybe they eventually get there and they're like, Okay,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
In the movie, they're definitely not in the V formation.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
No, no, they're not.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
This part in the movie does not last very long,
but I love it anyway because you could just see
Luna being like, yeah, she's really the start.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
That was the time of her life.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
This journey describes her getting on her festraal like she
does it every day.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Side saddle, side saddle.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
She's a lady.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
But also I'm like, side saddle for that long and
you're not falling off. That is impressive. In the in the.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Wheel, you know what, I can see Luna falling off
her thestral like mid flight and just being like, oh,
dear catches her and she's like, oh hello, Oh.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
I knew you'd catch me.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. The whole thing is just
a big nope, yeah, I don't which I guess is
why I'm not.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, I would hate it, is why I'm not a Gryffindor.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Even being a Gryffindor, I think I'd still be like,
I don't know about this.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
And you know I've seen death, like I guess, have
I seen somebody like yes, my grandmother, Like I was
in the hospital room when she died when she passed,
so like i'd be able to see the theestrals. And
I still would not do that and be like, no,
go without me. I'll stay here in man the school.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
M M Cat's gonna stay behind and watch the fort.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, I'll stay here and find Snape and be like, hey,
so you're gonna go till the order right, okay, down
to London, so yeah, catch up with them.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Just like I love that Harry's the one to struggle
to get on his Thestral. I also love that when
they get to where they're going, he gives his thest
like an appreciative pat.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
I love it because he's a good egg.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, we also like.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I think because also he's the one who has voluntarily
ridden Buckbeek.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Oh you say, yeah, he has ridden another flying creature before,
and you know he didn't love it. He was like,
I definitely prefer rooms. But but you know, he he
learned the etiquette, He learned to bow to buckbeak, and
you know, he understands that it's a living creature and
it took time out of its schedule to limm to London.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
That's why he's like, sure, lick the blood off of
my robes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, they get to graze on trash. So it's fine, true,
it's fine.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
I know that Hagrid's not everybody's favorite character, but I
like to think that this moment where Harry gives an
appreciative pat to his Thestral, I like to think that
that's Hagrid's influence on Harry, because Harry knows how it
feels to be misunderstood and underappreciated and even abused. But
I think think that, you know, he may not have

(23:02):
always brought the best lessons to class, but I like
to think that Hagrid's influence on Harry has been teaching
him a love and respect for magical creatures.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Absolutely, and that was something they kind of picked up
on in the movie where they put in that scene
of Harry and Luna Ye getting the festals and Luna
says like they're understood, misunderstood because people think they're scary
and strange, and you're like, oh, Harry and Luna and
the Festals, they're all one and the same, and that
that threat doesn't really pulled as much in the books.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
No, because they put that in it the end as
like a clarification after the fact. But I love that
they I actually liked that they copied and pasted that
that whole thing into the middle of the movie and
gave Harry this extra moment with Luna.

Speaker 4 (23:47):
Yeah. Yeah, it is very sweet. I do have to
say I laughed a little bit though, as they're getting
onto the Festals because it talks about Neville trying to
get his short legs over the Festal's back, Like you didn't.
I was like, oh, yeah, I forget that. In the
books Neville is kind of short until I mean they
talk about he like, yeah, he kind of had a

(24:08):
gross matt Lewis is just so tall that I forget
that Neville is like short with little little short legs,
and even Met.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Props to Neville. He's like, I'm short, I'm gonna have
difficulty getting on this thing. I'm going to be really
scared but I'm going to do it because I care
about my friend Harry Potter.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, yeah, that that happens with me a lot with
the actors, you know, like friend George or shows are
shorter than Ron and they're girthier. Is that is that
the word stockier? That's the word? I was like, that
is girthier is not the word? And then like Ron
is tall and skinny and lanky, and you know, so

(24:51):
it's just funny how they sort of adjusted that. But whatever, whatever,
it's fine.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
So they they start, you know, getting off and I
just find this so interesting that Harry is so convinced
in the accuracy of his dream, and I'm just like,
why why is he so convinced that this is exactly
what must be happening? Is this is this naive? Does
it when we find out about this, does this like

(25:20):
retroactively cast some doubt on the other visions we've seen.
The one that came to mind for me was Goblet
of Fire, and you know, the one in the chapter
titled the Dream, And so I was like, is there,
you know, is there a chance that all these things

(25:40):
because we see them through Harry's perspective, that that's not
exactly how everything went down, because but we are just attuned,
and Harry is just attuned to being like, of course
this must be exactly what happened.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
I think he's extra convinced because the whole year now
he's had Snape telling him Dumbledore wants you to stop
these dreams, and Harry's like, well, why would Dumbledore want
care so much about stopping these dreams if they weren't real? Okay,
And so, because so much effort has been put in
through Snape and Dumbledore to make Harry stop having these dreams,

(26:16):
Harry's like, well, there's only one reason for that. They
must be completely real. And so then when he has
this dream about Sirius, he has literally no reason to
doubt it at.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
All, especially because of what happened to Arthur.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
And the amount of time that it would have taken
to explain to Harry that they want to stop these
dreams for the opposite reason, because he will believe they
are real and act impulsively. Would have taken minutes.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Please give and carry all the information.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Minutes. It would have taken minutes to explain to Harry
this isn't real, but it's going to make you feel
like it is and we're trying to prevent that because
we know how you get and we don't want you
to worry. So we're going to take like not even
five minutes to clear this up.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah, Dumbledore's flawed this book.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Yeah, especially in this case. It's like this is a
life or death thing. Why would you not? That infuriates
me sometimes about this book is like just tell Harry.
You don't want to tell him absolutely everything, Like they
probably wouldn't have to tell him about the prophecy necessarily,
but like give him the critical information of this could happen.

(27:24):
So we're gonna do this. It just doesn't make sense
to me.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Well, and there's also they added fact that Harry basically
had it confirmed by Creature Yes, yeah, two chapters ago,
who lied to him and said Master will not come
back from the ministry and so so in yeah, everyone
else is gone mcgonagall's gone. Snape apparently did not get
the message, so Harry thinks and so yeah, he really

(27:50):
has no reason to doubt it. Really, it's just like
if he sat back and thought logically like Hermione. He
is trying to get him to do the entire chapter
of like, yeah, how would oldemer get into the Minister
of Magic at five pm. There's people that book, but
emotions take over and guilt and worry and anxiety, and

(28:12):
Harry just goes full full on Harry.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Which it's so fascinating with Hermione and the logic too,
because this is an interesting thing about Harry. I found
that Harry with magic. Harry is always open to everything
being a possibility with magic, right, And when he sees
something in the magical world, he doesn't like doubt it
or ask anything. He's just like, yeah, magic, that's why

(28:37):
that works. Like you know, Hermione, he tries to figure
out why. She tries to be like, what are the
rules around this? What's happening here? But Harry's just like, sure,
why not? It's magic, right, and that happens in the
future too, right. He kind of does the same thing
he does here where he's like it must be true
when he talks about the Hallows in book seven, right,

(28:58):
He's like, of course it has to be true. And
Hermion he's also like logic Harry, So it's I don't know,
I just find this so interesting that he just kind
of accepts, Like Harry is so almost like trusting of magic'sabilities.
If that makes sense, then he's just like yeah all
the time.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
And maybe part of that is because his introduction to
magic was having a horrible Muggle life with abusive family
members and then this enormous man broke down the door,
gave him a cake and was like, I'm going to
whisk you away to this magical world where people like you. Yeah,
and so magic has been a saving force in his life. Yeah. Yeah,

(29:39):
he hears something magical and he's like, must be true.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
And maybe Haggard's the one to actually point out to
Harry that Muggles can't know about wizards because everybody would
be wanting magic solutions to their problems. Maybe on some level,
Harry's the one who is wanting magic solutions to his
problems because he has had a stressful life, even for
a kid, and it never ever ever stops. It doesn't

(30:09):
stop from the moment he's born to whatever moment in
the timeline he is to die. His life will never
not be stressful. So if anybody would want magic to
be the be all end all solutions to the problems,
I would think it would be Harry.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
That makes total sense.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, Now, as I'm thinking about the information that was
not given to Harry. I've recalled something during their useless
occlimency lessons together, didn't Snape point out to Harry that
now that Voldemort is aware of the connection between their minds,
that it is likely to work in reverse, and that

(30:50):
he is the one who would often invade the minds
of his victims.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
Yes, but it's coming from Snape. So Harry's life shut up.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah, Harry's like, I hate these lessons already.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
He's like, I don't want I'm not gonna listen to
anything you have to say.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
So if Harry was able to retain information like I
kind of wonder Lupin is the one who taught Harry
how to fight de mentors. If Lupin was the one
teaching Harry auclimency and Lupin had said the same thing
that Snape said, would he have been able to retain
and apply it?

Speaker 4 (31:27):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yeah. I think it's definitely the change in teacher. It's
it's the teacher that makes the difference. Like, think about
how suc successful Harry was learning to do a patronis
because Lupin was such an encouraging, helpful teacher. Harry hates
occlemency because it's Snape who he hates already. But Snape's
method of teaching is basically like, no, do it until

(31:52):
you get it right. Yeah, and that's not the way
people learn. And so the entire plus you know, Harry
got kicked out of acclemency and really has not been
thinking about it that much since then.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
And Dumbledore admits at the end too that he chose
the wrong teacher.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yeah, you know he does.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, so your fault, bro.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
And also patronises are all about, like you're being confronted
with with darkness and despair in the form of a dementor.
But patronises are all about trying to focus on happy memories,
like memories that you choose. There's there's a certain amount
of control and consent in what you're doing there, whereas
with acclemency, you're just trying to shut someone out and

(32:37):
you don't know what memories they're going to pick. Because
when Snape is doing those lessons with Harry, he has
absolutely no idea what's going to show up until yeah,
it does.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
And Snape is quite cruel in the way he teaches acclemency, right,
like he yeah, he like gloats over Harry's bad memories.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yes, yeah, and Harry's always falling down and hitting his
knee stuff. Yeah, it's cold down there.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
He's having those visions of Cedric, which actually brings me
to another point because I think, correct me if I'm wrong.
Harry has these dreams about Cedric dying all summer, but
once he gets to school and he starts having these
dreams about the mysterious room in the Department of Mysteries,

(33:31):
I think that's when the dreams shift from being about
Cedric to being about that. But I think, unconsciously, possibly
he still has some survivor's guilt over the fact that
he couldn't save Cedric, But in this moment, he's confronted
with even the smallest possibility that somebody else is dying
that he can save. So I don't think he's just

(33:53):
trying to save serious. I think on some level he's
trying to rewrite history.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah. Yeah, the dreams about Cedric are kind of confined
to the previous summer, when when Dudley points it out,
like a, here, you're talking about Cedric in your sleep.
But all of the fifth book, Harry's teaching the DA
and it's about, you know, learning these things to protect yourself.
And he also has the relationship with Choe all year,

(34:18):
which is like a constant reminder of Cedric, and so
it is kind of just like something lying dormant in
his brain that last year he watched Cedric die and
he couldn't stop it.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Well, and he also he's always also felt bad because
he told Cedric to come with him, right, and so
he like he feels like he led him there. And
I think he almost feels that way about Serious now, right,
that this was only happening because Serious is connected to me.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
And I feel like if we if we looked at
the dreams in chronological order, I bet we could pinpoint
when Voldemort's dreams takeover based on just the content. So,
because yeah, Harry's dreaming about Cedric all summer, I can't
imagine that it just stops when he gets to Hogwarts.
There has to be sort of that different, you know,

(35:14):
the uh, the line in the stand. I can't think
of the word. But Voltimore starts obsessing about the door
once Bode fails. When when when does that? When does
he start obsessing?

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Let me see if I can find it? This may
take him in it.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Well, Sturgis Podmore is supposed to take them to the
Alwich Express on the first of September, Yes, and he
doesn't show up because he gets imperious to try to
get through the door. Right, So as early as September first,
Voltimore is trying to get people.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Okay, But like Dumbledore says at the end, the more
Voltemore was obsessing over it, the more Harry was dreaming
about it.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Right, he's having me he's having dreams at Grimald Place
because in the noble and most ancient House of Black,
it says, despite the fact that he was still sleeping badly,
still having dreams about corridors and locked doors that made
a scar prickle. So that is that far back. Let's
keep looking.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
I think Boltimore is first made aware of the connection
to Harry after Nigini attacks Arthur. Yeah, yes, I think
that is what Yes realizes. Yes, Harry Potter is seeing
what I'm seeing right, right, and that's when he kind
of like amps the amps the visions up.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Yeah, and I think that's when he starts realizing, yeah,
he can.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Use it against yes, yeah, yes, its advantage right.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
It's so sad that the connect that the connection that
Harry has. Too serious is the downfall of serious. Because
also the reason that Voltimort knows, okay, we're going to
put serious Black in this dream is because Sirious accompanied
Harry to platform nine three quarters and Malfoy noticed. Draco
and Lucius Malfoy noticed, and they passed along the infrom

(37:00):
you know, to help being like that dog is serious Black,
and they realize, well in creature.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
Going to the Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
And it's also and you know, a reason that Harry
believes that Sirius would go to the differntent Mysteries here
is because Sirius has been locked up in Grimaud Place
the entire year and that, you know, tragically, that's one
of the reasons that Harry doesn't ever open up the
Mirror present because he's like, I don't want to ever
say serious. I'm having a bad time and goed serious

(37:33):
out of hiding. And if he had instead opened that
gift and realized what it was, then he could have
just in this moment said serious, are you in the
department mysteries? Are you being tortured? And you should say no, man,
I'm helping out Buckbeek. He got hurt.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
The mirror you have dialed, is unavailable, or is outside
the coverage area.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
They share responsibility when it comes to that mirror, because
if Sirius hadn't just shoved it in Harry's hand and
been like here this instead, if he was like, hey,
this is a mirror. This is a two way mirror.
You and I can communicate and we don't have to
use fires and get in trouble.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
And and also after Snap'sworth's memory, when Harry calls up
Serious and lupin to talk about it Serious in that moment,
because by the way, why didn't you just call me
on the mirror? Right?

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Does use a mirror?

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah? I love when people bring that up, because everybody
always talks about how Harry forgot about the mirror. Harry's
not the only one, yeah, who knows about this mirror.
Like Serious could have mentioned it, but he didn't. Serious
doesn't try to pop into the fire send him Let
I mean at that point he can't really send him
letters or pop into the fire anymore anyway. But still, like,

(38:42):
if I'm Harry and somebody handed me this thing and
said use it if you need me, I would keep
it in my pocket at all times.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, Well, you know, I'm always here to dump on serious,
but Harry does have some of the blame when when
it comes to this, when it comes to this, but
also Harry's fifteen yeah, I mean series is emotionally fifteen yeah, yes, yes, sorry, I'm.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Are we in the phone booth yet?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
No, am, We're almost there.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
We've landed and the dust rolls are eating you know,
leftover pizza from the dumpster.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Yes, which, by the way, I was reading my British
version I did not know learned a new British term today.
The British term for a dumpster is a skip.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Chanelle Williams taught me that word at leak econ.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Actually I guess I just did not have that one
filed away, so that was fun. I do love though
they do. They get in the phone booth and the
you know, he hears the voice say please state your
name and business and Harry, in very hairy forms sass
is it. And I'm like, Harry, Harry, the voice is automatic,
you can't hear your sass. It just makes me laugh

(39:52):
a lot. Also, Harry Potter rescue mission is the funniest.
I will never not laugh at these badges that just
Sayry Potter Rescue Mission.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
I mean it just slaps me over the face how
you know, over the head, not the face, how blunt
magic constantly is It's like uh huh, there's no, It's.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Just it's so literal.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
There's no yes, and there's no safeguard where like the
phone booth hears that and is like, oh, when that's said,
I automatically dial the orders to let them know, Like no,
it just listens to what he said and is like,
we'll put that on the little batch for you.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
It's like, okay, we will.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
You know it is Ai. It only confirms what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
We have exceeded the number of times I hope to
hear AI in this episode.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
I'm sorry, I cannot think for itself. That is so,
and you shouldn't trust it then because you can't see
where it keeps its bright.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, and if it could think for yourself, it would
contact the orror department and maybe things would have, you know. Harry.
Harry even sasss it and says like if your people
can't can't help us out.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
First, which I do. I do that all the time,
Like I curse inanimate objects all the time, like even
the ones that can talk back to me, like I
will tell my Amazon device if it is being unhelpful.
I'm not saying her name because she will activate there's
one in this room, but I will sometimes I will

(41:18):
say her name to activate her. I will cuss her
out and then she will have nothing to say to that,
which sounds very passive aggressive for a robot. But so
him him sassing the disembodied voice, I think is also
defensible because this is the magical world. There are things
that can there's things that talk that shouldn't. All the time,

(41:42):
Harry gets into an exchange of sass with two gargoyles
outside of the staff room that is arguing and paintings
like he gets into it with them too, So it
makes sense.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
That he would argue, tell him to tuck in his shirt,
call him scruffy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
I think it's also clever that, like we get the
badges that say rescue mission, and you remember Harry said
they're here to save someone. I think Harry might be
worried that if he says we are here to rescue
serious black, that's going to be what trips an alarm.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I mean, I'm surprised they use their real names to
be honest, I don't know that. I don't know that
I would have used I mean, to be fair, he
would have had to be.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
This is a first and last name.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, world, Ron says, it's a damn sight harder pretending
to be somebody else when you're just making stuff up
because stand Shunpike.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
Well, but Harry's in pain at this moment, right, Like
he keeps talking about how there's like pressure building behind
his scar and he's freaking out and he's like trying
not to and so I think he's just he's just
Harry being Harry, and Harry doesn't think about Harry is
not the type to try and deceive someone like he's
just not right, and so he doesn't think about those

(43:06):
kinds of like safety measures. I don't think he's just like, yeah,
I'm Harry Potter, whatever, just go with him. We're all here.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
It just occurs to me they never had dinner, No,
they'd be starving, but now people have eaten in hours.
So you Meg, you mentioned at the at the end
of the last chapter when Hermione is trying to talk
Harry out of this, is it dinner? You said five pm? Like,
is it dinner time. Is that the time?

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Yeah, when Harry's freaking out, everyone is celebrating that the
final od w L is done and the crowd is
going to dinner. Now, okay, that makes sense that they're not.
They're they're in a classroom freaking out right.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So do they not have I never thought about this
until now. I can't believe I never thought of this.
Hogwarts doesn't have tea time.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Nope, No, or if they do, we don't hear about it.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
Four o'clock breaks. We know they have breaks at some point,
so maybe it's just like a break.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, the people, the people who have a break period
at four pm are definitely having teeth.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yeah. The reason I asked, so, this has got to
be around midnight. If if our timeline is correct, it's
probably around midnight. And so is the Ministry of Magic
just open twenty four seven, three sixty five, because how
are they able to get in at midnight? It seems
like there's no night shift. Most governments don't have a
night shift outside of you know, maybe a custodial crew

(44:28):
and a couple of security guards.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
I feel like it might be mentioned in a later
chapter that, like the death leaders took care of that,
like they.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
That there's there's there's ministry insiders as part of this team.
They've got Augustus Rockwood. Yeah so okay, the highest ranking.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, they told Eric Munch to go home to security
Wizard he's gone. Whoever was his replacement. They were like,
we're gonna call in the backup, but then they never
called in the backup.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
Yeah, like in out of the fire. So right after
Harry has this vision, Hermione says, it's five o'clock in
the ho afternoon, so considering they have to set off
this distraction, look into the fire, get rid of Umbradge,
and then get all these spstils, Yeah, it's like one
in the morning. Yeah, it's late.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
What's kind of funny is that if this all were true,
Like what would Serious and Voldemort just be doing for
like six hours?

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Playing cards?

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Torture plank cards?

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, who knows, I don't know, but like questions to break, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
You spy something round and glowing.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, it's enjoying the shelves, reading them aloud, being like
what do you think that's about?

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Borden is like I spy with my little eye, something
ugly and scaly and stupid.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
It's you.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
Well.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I pulled a throwback comment from Pixie Dragon one thirty seven,
who posited this interesting question, shouldn't the Ministry have increased
the security after there had already been two attacks Bode
and Arthur Weasley? And why wasn't there a member of
the Order on guard duty.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Because they don't have that many members at this point
and they were all busy.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
I mean, your staffed right now, the Order a little bit.
Maybe it was mcgonagall's night to take the shift and
she's in Mungo's right now.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I feel like they would have adjusted, But I mean
that's possible.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
It's the Ministry not having security.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
We don't know precisely where Dumbledore is or what he's doing,
or how he's communicating with the Ministry, but ever since
his dismissal from Hogwarts, we don't know exactly what kind
of administrator he is being at this time, so they
might be a little bit more on their own than
they usually are. And maybe this is the rest of

(46:54):
the Order realizing that they dropped the ball, because they
do get there even but they are not there to
cut Harry and the others off.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Well, it is what's really weird is that there's nobody
from the Ministry there, honestly, because like everything's just opened,
but literally no one is there, and that that's what's weird.
And I wonder if exactly exactly and I wonder if
maybe whoever of the Order who's supposed to be on

(47:28):
guard duty that night was one of the Ministry workers
and so couldn't stay behind without like because again, how
did they get everybody out there? Were they like gas leak?
Everybody has to leave, you know, like what is the
I don't know, I don't know. The fires are all
out too, you know, like the flu fireplaces are all

(47:51):
out and everything. So I was like, I don't know.
Maybe they said it was a gas leak so that
everything would go away, but maybe that was part of it.
Like there was no way for them, however, they cleared
the Ministry out, there was no way for you know,
that order member to also stay behind in that moment.
I don't know. That's the thing.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I mean, they have invisibility cloaks and like and that
charm that does the egg thing down your back, disillusion
in charms and like there are people getting caught in
a kmart overnight. Never mind the Ministry of Magic like,
let's be real, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Kids today don't know came from Kmart.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Sure they do. They still have k Marts in parts
of the country, but I don't know. But they're not
retail museum. But so we're assuming that the Ministry magic
is like not typically open twenty four to seven, right,
And is there actually a line where they talk about
that the death Eaters did that? You mentioned that, and

(48:55):
I've been trying to rack my brain.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
About I don't think there's anywhere where we find out,
like what, why, how they actually set this up? Yeah,
because I don't think Harry really cares after what happens.
He's like, whatever, I don't even care, you.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Know, now, the Ministry, the Ministry would care deeply, Like
I would think that, especially in the aftermath when Fudge
and everybody else gets there to try to assess the
situation at that point, they care because wizards are great
at hindsight, but they're not great at anticipating this kind

(49:33):
of trouble.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
I think all we get is like maybe we get
a quick line from Dumbledore to Fudge about like death
Theaters have infiltrated your ministry. They're all roped up in
the Death room downstairs, and yeah, I guess the reader
is just supposed to infer like okay, so that means
the Death Eaters set this all up.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
They cleared everybody out.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yeah, the gas leak. They made sure that the phone
booth was still operational though, and like all that stuff.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Because they are there. Yeah, like we know there's a
group of them there. They're hiding in the prophecy room,
waiting for.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Behind the shop being like okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
Right, the door opens, They're like.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Like, don't light the candles on the cake until he
comes in.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
Turn off your damn phone.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah you know, hang on, I have to sneeze.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
Yeah, Dusty is behind you, like, don't do it. Don't
do it.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
It's like someone sneezes you, dude, cover your nose. Hey,
I'm wearing a mask.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
I did the vampire thing.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, anyway, that's so offensive.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
So they get through here and the others are like, well,
what do we do now? Harry and I find it
so fasting that Harry starts to say I don't know,
and then he cuts off because he's like, wait, no,
I can't say I don't know, because it really is
the first time I think in one of these kind
of like climactic adventures that he legitimately does not know.

(51:10):
I mean like obviously he doesn't know what's coming in
the other ones, but he is like, but I know
what I'm trying to do, and I kind of have
an idea, right, Like Sorcerer's Stone, Okay, there are things
guarding the stone. We're gonna go take them on. We're
gonna go down there. We're gonna confront they think it's snape, right,
and we're gonna get it back. Chamber of Secrets. We
know what's down in the chamber. We're gonna go tell Lockhart,

(51:33):
We're gonna figure it out. We're gonna go with him, right,
I mean, even prisoner, They're like, we have a we
have a mission, right, we know, like we need to
do X, Y and Z so we can save serious,
save Buckbey can get back on time. Woo.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
All terrible plans, but still plans.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
They are, right, But this time he's literally.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Case scenario Griffin.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
Yeah, he's literally like I don't know, right, Like I've
literally dreamed of walking down here, but I literally don't
know anything after that. And so I was like, is
that partially what causes all the issues here is that
he's being a little arrogant and won't admit I don't
know what I'm doing because everybody else just is like,

(52:14):
follow Harry, Harry, Harry will know, Harry will get us through,
and that causes chaos.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, he's kind of set himself up as the leader.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
I gotta say, I feel so vindicated because this is
the third episode in a row where you've called Harry arrogant,
and it just makes me so happy.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
He's not fully arrogant.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
He just has He's just a little he's a little prideful.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
He's a little pride hashtagrogant. That's what Harry is short for.
It's not short for Harvey or Harold. It's short for
Harrogan Karrogan.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
But but not like malicious arrogance.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Yeah, he's already been called out a little bit by
Hermione the previous chapter about you do have a saving
people thing and so and he you know, he gets
angry at that because he's like, this is this is
this is serious, this is serious, and this is.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Serious, this is serious.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
This is it's serious, serious serious.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I can't believe we're like an hour in before that
pun got oh.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Wow, and and and so and he is so like
dead set on, like I am right, I have seen
these visions. I know that they're accurate. And so to
now get to this point where everyone's like okay, and
I prove that they're accurate, and he doesn't quite know
what he's doing, it's it's like it's like he's feeling
a little a little bit of worry at this point. Now,

(53:37):
I like, what if what if they're not? I don't
know exactly. Like when he goes, he's like he knows, okay,
Then we go down the hallway, then we go into
the circular dark room, then we go into the glittering
golden room. And when that is not the immediate next step,
that's where he still starts to falter and actually has
to think about like, wait, what am I doing here?

Speaker 4 (53:56):
Because I think that's that's what I mean when I
say like Harry can sometimes to be arrogant. Is Harry's
kind of more of like a big picture kind of person, right,
He's like rescue mission, We go rescue. He doesn't think
of the steps in between. But that's just not one
of his skill sets, Like one of his skill sets
is just the big picture. We just we go do

(54:18):
the thing, How do we do the thing? I don't know, hermione,
You'll figure it out.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
But like that.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
Seems to be kind of his m O.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
And there you have it. Every time he goes into
one of these situations, he's never had to do it
without hermione. Hermione is the one who figures out the logistics.
He figures out a broad idea for what needs to
be accomplished. She makes sure that all the details are
in order. And this is not a time where she

(54:49):
is able to help with that, and that's not her fault.
None of them are prepared for this. The whole point
of where they're going is that nobody knows what any
of this is. Yeah, even people who work work in
the government their whole lives don't know what they're going
into right now.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
She doesn't have that critical information of the dreams and
what Harry has seen, so she doesn't understand, like because
right like there's the point where Harry says, well, I'll
just know it when I see it.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
The most she can do is like in the moment,
be like, okay, well let's put flag gray charm. Yeah,
Like she's solving things in the moment to the best
of her ability. But yeah, it is a good point,
Jeff about like she has always been there. She's the
one who provides the timeturn, or she's the one helping
solve the potion's riddle through the trap door, even in

(55:37):
Chamber of Secrets at the climax of the story when
she's petrified, she's the one who you know, solved the
basilisk and wrote down pipes and is guiding them that.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Way literally like not in her sleep exactly, but almost
like in the day.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess the thing that bugs
me about Hermione in this moment is that I think
like there were a thousand times that she could have
tried to like pump the brakes a little bit, Like
they're walking through they're in that department of Mysteries. Okay,
they are in the Ministry of Magic, and doors are
just flying open for them, Like question that, why is

(56:15):
that door opening automatically? Aren't we in a top secret area?
The Ministry of Magic is munch right right, right, right,
right right, like something is wrong here, like just she
just keeps going along with it, and it really bothers me.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
I think she she did and she does try at
some points and I think she did earlier in this
whole because this entire adventure spans several several chapters, right,
and I think she did earlier. She tried to be
like Harry pumped the brakes, and Harry like went off
on her.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Yeah, this moment, she's issues happening, and you know, I think.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
She's a little afraid, honestly, Like quite honestly, she's afraid
about what's going down right here, and she's also afraid
of like how Harry's acting. I think she's he is
really scaring her in this moment to be that he
is because he's a little unhinged.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Like entirely, yeah, Yeah, he's definitely got manic energy going.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
Yeah, and she reminding herself, just led a woman to
be kidnapped by Center. So maybe she's like processing that one.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, you know, like the most stressful two weeks of
testing of her life. Her whole life has been leaning
up to these two weeks of testing.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
I also think hermione sometimes like comes across as a
little anti serious, and I think maybe she's aware of that,
and she's kind of nervous of like if I pumped
the brakes too much? Is Harry going to think that, like,
I actually don't care about serious as well.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
Being, because he accused her of that at one point, right,
and he's like, he's like, what, you don't care, and
she's like, no, of course I care about serious, But
I think she also understands. She sees serious and his
arrested development clearer than Harry ever will.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Like earlyer in the book, she she is talking about
like we got to do the DA and she's all
gung ho. And then as soon as Serious as like
that's a great idea, then Hermione is like, Yesua shouldn't
do it, And Harry's like, oh, so we shouldn't do
it now that Sirius supports it, Like there is that
kind of dynamic there.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Also, she did promise. She says that Carry wants to
go off to the Department of Mysteries right away. Hermione says,
we have to at least check if we can confirm
he's not there, I'll come, I'll do whatever it takes
to save him. And then that's when they go to
Umbridge's office and they find out from Creature that Master
will not come back from the Department of Mysteries. That's

(58:35):
what he said, So as far as this point as
any of them are aware, there is a chance, however
suspicious these circumstances might appear, that serious might actually be here.
It still doesn't feel that likely, but Hermione gave her word.
If they can confirm that Sirius is not at home
where he's supposed to be, they would go to the

(58:58):
Department of Mysteries and they would.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
You know what really kills me is that after Umbridge
is carried away, after Grop goes stumbling away, after the
others show up, and they're like, okay, so Umbridge is
gone and we knocked out the entire inquisitorial squad, Like
any of them, but especially Hermione in that moment, should
have said, great, let's go back to Umbridge's office now

(59:21):
where the fireplace is unmanned, and we can go straight
to the ministry from there like that. Actually, honestly, like
the inquisitorial squad is knocked out, Umbridge is gone, no
one is gonna be what is Filch gonna be? They
can get passed.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
Go check in with Snape again, be like yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
You'd think that, Like Harry in that moment would say,
like Snape didn't understand the message, and Hermione or someone
would be like, I was there, Harry. He couldn't he
couldn't stay in that moment, like gotcha, Harry. I'm gonna
go like, yeah, I'll let's find him and see what
he's actually doing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, wink wink.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
Yeah. But I think again, that is Harry being Harry,
which is just like in situations like these, just like
full steam ahead. We're not even gonna act exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
So they get to this creepy this creepy thing, and
here's my question. All right, we're gonna get to this
in a minute. But like they talk about the doors
and then and the room spinning, and I'm like, but
this room spins once you close the door, like Harry
literally has to tell Neville to close the door they
came in. So I'm like, why are we not just

(01:00:37):
like opening a door and leave, or there's six of them,
go open six doors at the s and everybody see
what's happening, and then the room can't spin.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yeah yeah, no, I would say, because I've sometimes thought
that the Department of Mysteries would be a cool setup
for like a Harry Potter theme to escape room. But
when I looked it up. I saw there are a
couple of people who have actually attempted it, and it
hasn't really gone that well. And I think I have
I think I figured out like the problem with it.

(01:01:11):
When you go into the Department of Mysteries, each room
feels like an escape room, but with like one very
specific thing to it, and some of the rooms, frankly,
aren't that hard to get out of. So I think
where they've gone wrong with it is they try to
take all these different aspects of the Department of Mysteries
and put them into a single room and turn them
into puzzles that need solving. So maybe it's just not

(01:01:35):
as cool an idea as I thought. It just they're
literally trying to escape from the Department of Mysteries by
the time we get into the second act of I
would say this set of three chapters. They have the
one where they infiltrate the Ministry, the one where they
have to try to get away from the Death Eaters,
and then the one where Voldemort and Dumbledore have their

(01:01:56):
big fight and everybody eventually gets out except for.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Serious I think it's just because like it would have
to be so extensive, like you would have to have
a lot of space because you'd have to go through
like each of the different rooms, and each of the
different rooms have rooms off of rooms, and then you'd
have to go through each of them. It would be
it would be a lot, I think problem and there's yeah,
or and there's also so many different possibilities, right, Like,

(01:02:23):
there's so many different that that's probably why it's it's tricky, probably,
but it would be really cool. I'd be down for that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah. Well, let's start opening these doors and seeing what's
getting them.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
Oh yeah, So the first one they go into is
this room with the brains, and I'm just like, but
what are they doing with them?

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
And are they where did they get them? Are they
human brains? Were they donated? Were they like? Like, where
do you get a tank full of brains? Like it's weird,
it's creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Why. I have a couple head cannons that come to
mind in this moment, one being that this is the
closest to neurobiology that they have in the Wizarding world.
This is how they try to take what little knowledge
of actual medical science they have and combine it with
magic to attempt to understand the complexities of the human mind.

(01:03:23):
So that's why they have a tank full of brains
based on the fact that they shoot out this string
of memories that try to kill you, like what happens
with Ron, obviously that's what happens with that one particular brain.
So maybe memory is what they happen to be studying
with this tank full of brains. As for where they
come from, I think since everybody knows it's it's very unsatisfying.

(01:03:50):
But there's that explanation of oh, if you're a wizard,
you don't get you don't get the flu or you
don't get cancer all these other you know, things that
muggles you know, are diagnosed with or suffer from. Every day.
They get magical ailments, things that don't sound fun, but
they have whimsical magic names to them, like dragon pos
So I would think that I don't believe that wizards

(01:04:13):
have organ transplants, but I do think that because they
try to combine magic with scientific research, that if you are,
like going to Saint Mungo's, they might offer you this
form on behalf of the government that says, hey, if
anything happens to you, is it okay if we harvest

(01:04:35):
your organs and use them for research in the Department
of Mysteries.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Yeah, I mean they can probably can. They can probably
still donate their body to science like muggles. Yeah, donate
their body to magic, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
And that's what I've said. When I'm done with this
flesh vessel that I'm in, if I got anything that
can benefit other people, go ahead and take it anything else.
If you want to do stuff with it for science,
fine and the rest of it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Just burn it, donate it to some endangered species. Yeah. Yeah,
the amer leopard can eat it for snick.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Heck, toss it in a pig pen and let them
eat it up, because it's not doing me any good anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
I know that we think this is probably an anomaly
in the magical world. I would bet money that there's
a tank with brains in it somewhere in the world.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Oh I'm sure. Oh yeah, but I just I just
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah, I'm not sure. But I think they actually have
to keep for for cross contamination like purposes. I think
when they have organs like that in the real world,
for scientific research or donation, I think they have to
keep them in separate tanks.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Yeah, they wouldn't be in the same tank together.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
It's like probably several several small like tupperware containers full
of brains.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
But what's also weird about this room is that there
aren't other organs. There aren't other body parts that we know,
the brains that we know, but like, well, it's kind
of it's kind of described their own room, like this
is just the brain room, and if you go in
the next door, it's so I think what's weird about
this room is that it's a tank full of brains
and then it's just like little writing desks around it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Also, excuse me, those are aquavarius maggots, Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
That's what they were. Yeah, thik Luna's dreams come true.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
You don't get proof that they're not well.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
But I do think I do think they're studying.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Memory of that one. That one was a brain. We
don't know that that isn't a brain. And a tank
full of aquavarious maggots, you can't prove that it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Maybe they're not human brains, Maybe they're maggot brains, enlarged
maggot brains. There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Aquavarius maggots must be very smart to have such big brains. Oh,
there's then again, humans have that size brain and there
some of them are not.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Smart, not that smart none.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah, And actually all this talk about brains and memory
got me thinking, like how they even get people because
I don't believe that the Department of Mysteries is something
you can aspire to. I don't believe that because I
don't think it's possible to aspire to something when you
have no idea what it is. I think that, however,

(01:07:27):
they keep track of this kind of thing, like however
they vet possible candidates. I think what happens is if
you get recruited to the Department of Mysteries, they bring
you down there, they show you around, and then they
basically turn it into a red pill blue pill situation.
After that, if you're interested, you stay and you have

(01:07:48):
to take like an unbreakable vow not to talk about
what goes on there. But then again, not exactly that,
because if you have to take an unbreakable vow before
you work in the Department of Mysteries Augustus Rock, what
would be dead. So I think that alone rules out
the unbreakable valve for Department of Mystery employees. But I
do believe that if you are shown around the Department

(01:08:10):
of Mysteries and you're offered that job but you don't
want to take it, that you get obliviated, and then
you go back to not knowing anything about what goes
on there.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
I definitely think you get recruited for the Department of Mysteries,
and I think you probably have to like be deep
into some really weird research and somebody's like, so that
actually aligns with something we're doing, and that's what you know,
and you're okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Like you know someone who knows someone and you kind
of stumble into it, not like you're five years old
and you're like, I want to work in the art
of mysteries.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
My god, it's very very weird, very shadowy. Well, the
next room they try is the We kind of call
this the veil room, right, and.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
I refers to it as the death room.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Yes, yeah, why are there benches here? I think at
one point we talked about the possibility that at some
point in history they used this room for like executions
of some sort and that's why there's like an amphitheater
around it. But I feel like that just goes against

(01:09:18):
there's something very like there's very like spiritual nature to
this archway and to this veil. I mean, it's even
a fascinating interesting thing I picked up on this time
was it's described as a pointed archway, and I was like,
wait a second, that seems very purposeful. So I went
and looked it up, and so here's here's the bit

(01:09:39):
from Wikipedia. So, a pointed arch, a geival arch, or
Gothic arch is an arch with a pointed crown whose
two curving sides meet at a relatively sharp angle at
the top of the arch. Also known as a two
center arch, its form is derived from the intersection of
two circles. This architectural element was particularly important in Gothic architecture.
The earliest use of appointed arch dates back to the

(01:10:01):
Bronze to Bronze Age knippur. As a structural feature, it
was first used in Eastern Christian architecture Byzantine architecture and
Sassinian I'm saying that wrong, I know, But in the
twelfth century it came into use in France and England
as an important structural element. In combination with other elements
such as the rib vault and later the flying buttress,

(01:10:21):
these allowed the construction of cathedral's palaces and other buildings
with dramatically greater height and larger windows which filled them
with light. It like reinforces this idea that this room
is kind of like Gothic architecture, almost a Gothic cathedral,
and these are made to increase ceiling height and allow
these big windows with light in them, and especially like

(01:10:44):
in England. Right, it's I don't know. This whole room
is just weird to me and fascinating, and I just
feel like we have like zero concrete answers of any kind.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Well, speaking of concrete, correct me if I'm wrong, because
this might actually affect the outcome of my answer. The
benches and the arch we are made of stone, yes, yes, see.
The fact that they're made out of stone, and the
fact that it's an amphitheater and the whole thing is
made out of stone, to me screams archaic and also ritual.

(01:11:17):
So I don't think of this as a point of execution.
I think of this as a point of ceremony, Like
I would think that whenever this was constructed, however it
was discovered or established or what have you. I think
that this is a point of funeral, Like this is

(01:11:40):
whoever it was who was living here. When you have
reached the end of your life, they carry you to
the arch and they toss you in poof, there you go.
No burial, no headstone, no no, because through the veil
is that way. It's not. Yeah, it's not about like

(01:12:01):
the individual, and it's not about oh it's about your
death and you were so important. No, it's about you
basically returning to eternity.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
It's almost like the Arthurian like Avalon, right, that like
on a boat went to Avalon and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
So that's the day of the Lord of the Rings.

Speaker 4 (01:12:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
I have an entire theory about the veil and I
actually uh gave a discussion about this on an episode
of muggle Cast over the summer. But and it was
like about is the veil wizard made? Did wizards make
the veil? And I think that wizards in a sense

(01:12:45):
made the veil. I think that all around the Earth
there are these these sort of portals that like take
you to the afterlife or another world, another universe, and
I think the veil is not the only one. And
in fact, I think most of them were probably in
the ocean, because the ocean covers like seventy five percent
of the planet, and one of my head canons is

(01:13:06):
that there is a space like this in the Bermuda triangle,
which is why things disappear there. But so I think,
you know, thousands and thousands of years ago, there were
people living in the area of what would later become
London and there was this one spot where like people
would just kind of vanish, and so I think humans,
wizards and muggles maybe had to mark this. They were like,

(01:13:29):
people disappear when they walk through this one spot. So
humans set up the veil itself with like the rocks
in the veil as like a place to mark, to
mark that. And as society grew and progressed and people
you know, started studying these things, studying death, they kind

(01:13:50):
of built a room around it and it became like
the place where people study study death, and maybe the
Department Mysteries grew from that. And then around time when
it became time from wizards to create a ministry, they
were like, well, let's just add it to where we've
already got this place where we're studying death and all

(01:14:11):
these these other things. And especially around the time that
the Statute of Secrecy was signed, when they were like
we got a tied from muggles. Now that became that place,
and then over time it has so it has been
the place where death is studied. And maybe at one
point during you know, the Middle Ages, where things got
kind of dark, it became the benches were added as

(01:14:34):
like a place for for uh, for executions to be witnessed,
because public executions were, you know, a real big thing
in the past. People would love to come to the
town square and see someone be hanged. And and maybe
it also became kind of a spiritual place where like
you could you could say, when I die, I want
to go through that veil, and and and thus it

(01:14:55):
does kind of have like a holy factor to it. Also,
the only thing that like doesn't exactly go with this
theory is that it's like nine levels underground, but like
maybe that could be explained with like the shifting of
tectonic plates over the years, and like the place of
the veil once was above ground and has since been buried.

(01:15:18):
But that is my entire theory of what the veil is,
where it came from, how it came to be, why
it's got like the veil and the stones around it
marking it. I think that, Yeah, it was not created
by wizards. They just kind of found it and put
like things there to mark it as like don't walk through.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
This, be careful.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
See.

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
That's fascinating because there is a lot of folklore in
like the British tradition of like there are certain places
where you'll slip into, like Fay, you'll slip into other worlds,
and so that would be fascinating if that was one
of those places. And so they marked it because they
realized it was like a particularly dangerous or particularly like

(01:16:03):
active I almost said pungent, but that's not the right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Yeah, that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:11):
Strong place. And so they they you know, like anciently
marked it, and then it did evolve from there. That's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
Ye.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
When I was reading froback comments and I wrote down
my notes before this, but a lot of people were
talking about if the veil was fashioned from Death's cloak,
so is it the same material as the invisibility cloak?
Did the Peveril brothers also make the veil and that's

(01:16:44):
why they are sort of associated with the same thing.
And I thought it was a very interesting. I thought
that that was an interesting thing to pontificate.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
It's also similar to like a dementor's cloak, and yeah,
dementors totally smell like death. There's that connection there well, and.

Speaker 4 (01:17:04):
That it's the veil itself to so Jinny, Nevill, Luna,
and Harry are all super entranced by this veil, right,
and but Ron Harmiony aren't. And so bringing up like
is the veil the same material as the cloak? That
was kind of part of my question is like why
why those four right? Because people said, oh, there's some

(01:17:24):
speculation that it's it's like festals, it's it's kind of
related to like having seen death or knowing death or
something like that. But I'm like, but then why would
Jinny be included in this?

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
So Jenny throws off all the theories, doesn't she?

Speaker 4 (01:17:37):
But yeah, you had that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
So traumatic experience her first year of Hogwarts.

Speaker 4 (01:17:41):
That was that was my My theory then, was is
it something to do with like your individual self having
a brush with death somehow, because festals are just if
you've seen it, like not yourself, right, it like you
weren't almost like almost a near death experience, right, But
we've got well, Neville was probably in a lot of

(01:18:03):
danger with his parents, right, and probably had situations Luna
maybe was around.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
It was like dropped out of the window or something. Also, yeah,
he was, oh, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:18:12):
I did forget about that, about like what's the great
what's the great trauma of their lives? And I forgot
nevill was just dropped out a window. Luna might have
been around when her mom's spell went wrong, so she
could have been, you know, in some serious danger there. Obviously,

(01:18:34):
Harry's had a million of these experiences, and I was thinking, well,
Jinny almost died because Riddle was sapping the life out
of her. So maybe that's why I don't think Ron
and Hermione have had experiences where they have really brushed
close to actually dying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Well, Ron definitely not, because every time he's like supposed
to be there, he's not there, Like he gets knocked
out with.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
A with a you know, I mean that would kill people.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Yeah, you know, like he's in the hospital. Wang, he's
not in the Triwizard Tournament, you know, blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
Ron's hanging out with Lockhart, Yeah, carving a hole in
the wall while Harry's trying a bassilisk. Right. There was
there was some interview with the author where she like
gave an answer for this, and it I didn't love it.
It included things like, well, Hermione is just too practical
to understand the veil or to be affected by it,
and Ron is scared of the veil, so that's why

(01:19:31):
he's not affected by it. But I think that's definitely
it definitely goes deeper than that. It's it has to
do with like personality, and like, you know, I think
that like, out of these six people, Hermione and Ron
are kind of the ones most like grounded in reality
of like life is here on this plane, and I
understand it in that in that manner, and the others

(01:19:54):
are kind of more more open to like the spiritual,
the fantastical, the realms beyond what reality is.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
I think Genny's afraid of death.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
I don't think she is.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
That's the only thing I can think of that she
does not have in common with the other three. Because Harry,
Luna and Neville can see the veil. She's the only
one who can't see the veil, who's still fascinated by
the archway. Or she can see the veil, you can't
see thestroals.

Speaker 4 (01:20:29):
No, I was gonna say they can see the veil.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
I think it's just that she spent I think it's
that she spent an entire year of her life at
age eleven, a very young age, being in close proximity
to a horcrux. Yeah, I think that's well.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
And I think she actually came very close to dying,
right like Riddle almost had taken, yeah, all of her life.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
And so I think maybe because all four of them
have gotten close to that point, Yeah, they're almost drawn
to it because it is almost like the tale the
Three Brothers, right where like death wants them for his own, right,
like Death wants the Three Brothers, you get close enough
to that death experience, and that personification is almost like,

(01:21:13):
you know, the siren song of come Back, Come Back, right,
like crossover almost.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
It was also thinking that maybe the spooky, disembodied voices
might be reminding her of when she was traumatized by
Tom Riddle and the basilisk in the chamber and all that.
But I don't think she can hear it either, because
if you can't see the veil, I don't think you'd
be able to hear the voices.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Well, who's where you get it? Where are you how
how are you as something They can't see the veil, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
Think they can all see it. It's just the way
they see it, attracted to it, that's different.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Miami says, it's just an old arch.

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
But I think they can see the veil.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
I don't think they can. I think they can see
the I think they can see the art. I don't
think they can see the veil or hear the voices.
I don't think they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Definitely can't can't hear the voices. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
I think the six of them can be split into
three groups. There's Ron and Hermione, who just see it
but there's nothing. They're not drawn to it in any way,
and if anything, they're like repelled from it. Then I
think there's Ginny and Neville, who see it and are
a little entranced by it, a little curious, a little
weirded out by it enough to like come close and
like look at it and think about it. And then

(01:22:34):
I think there's Harry and Luna who like really really
hear the voices and understand like there's people on the
other side of that, Like Harry is like serious, is
that you? And you know? Luna later on says like,
didn't you hear them at the veil. They're just they're
just on the other side of that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:50):
Yeah. Well, and it even says Harry says he felt
a very strong inclination to climb up onto the dais
and walk through the veil, right through the archway. I
guess I guess they don't mention it, but I don't
think there's anything about them not being able to see.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
Isn't the chapter art And I know the chapter art
is like not canon or whatever, but the chapter art
has a sheet hanging in it, right, Yeah, yeah, so
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
They did away with that entirely. It's just kind of like.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's I think Hermione does say
there's no room for anyone to be in there, like
in the archway, and you can't they obviously can't see
on the other side of it, like they have to
walk around. So I think there's that is kind of
the implication that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting theory that they can't
see it. I had never heard I'd never heard anybody
mention that before going along with something that Luna would say, like,
there's no evidence to points in either direction, so you
could possibly be right, I don't know. We'll leave it
to the listeners, let them decide. Yeah, let's go back

(01:24:00):
to the circular room and move on to the next
space that they try, which is the locked room. And
as I'm sure you all know, and most of the
listeners will know, many assume that this locked room is
where they study love and like the power of love
and just love in general. And you know, Harry uses
his serious knife and it melts because like, oh love,

(01:24:22):
but also not. But I wanted to point out that
this line from Ron is super interesting if you prescribe
to the idea that that room is where they study love.
But what if that's the one? Said Ron, staring at
it with a mixture of apprehension and longing.

Speaker 4 (01:24:40):
I think that is.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Like like like a character moment in a way, what
if it's the one? The one meaning like everybody talks
about the one, your soulmate or whatever. But he's talking
about what if that's the right room? But really if
that's the love room. And he's talked about what if
that's the one? I don't know. That just really hit

(01:25:02):
me this time. And then he's staring at it with
a mixture of apprehension and longing like someone who would
want to feel and find that love, which we know
Ron feels left out and a lot of things, you know,
very jealous and apprehensive and all of those. I just
it jumped out. It like leapt off the page at

(01:25:23):
me this time.

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
I went, oh, yeah, Ron very much leaves with his emotions.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
It's an interesting thought considering a majority of the people
standing in front of that door at the time end
up married to one another in various parents Hermione, and
even though they don't end up married, a lot of
people do ship Neville and Luna, which I think they
clumsily tried to shove into the last movie. Didn't work for.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
Me, And so maybe it's nothing. Maybe it's nothing, or
or maybe it's just beautiful. I don't know, there's something
about it. No, I think it really is really struck me.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
It's just like it was written in a way to
be like the one door that we can't open that
makes it, that makes it extra enticing and like what
wish we could go in there. But but when you
think about it as like Hermione being the brain of
the trio, Harry being the soul, and Ron being the
heart of the trio, there is there is something there

(01:26:21):
that is nice.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Yeah, I think it's refreshing that at this moment we
get Luna saying, you know what could be in there
and Hermione says something blibbering no doubt because at this
point it maybe not in the series, but definitely at
this point in this book, we don't have that many
jokes left, We don't have that many things to laugh

(01:26:43):
about left. From this point to the end of the book,
it is almost all drama and sadness like this is
this is a very very dark ending to one of
the books, but we get this. We get little moments
here and there injected into the sadness to kind of
remind you, Oh, by the way, wizards are still funny, haha.

(01:27:06):
And Hermione yeah, and she's still like she's not at
the point of oh, you and your dad are going
on a holiday to look for a crumple horn storekec.
That sounds fun. I hope you have a good time,
She's still like Luna not now. Yeah, whatever you are
about to say, just don't.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
We also have to give a shout out to Alahamura
because she tries it on this door and it doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
And a little bit foreshadowing serious as knife melts.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yeah, so much for that due to all the love
in the room. I'm just kidding. Why does it melt?

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Because because than fire?

Speaker 4 (01:27:53):
I mean that that is kind of what That's kind
of what Dumbledore says at the end, right, Like, there
is a room that's kept locked completely at all times
because it's the most powerful for uce it can change
the elemental state of things or people or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
Then how did they get it in there?

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
This was another thing that the author spoke about an
interview that I hated. Her answer was like, well, it's
locked because you can only get in there if you
work there. It was like even worse than the other quote.
It was something like that answer. It was terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
You can just say I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Yeah, I can just say I don't know. You can
also be a little ethereal about stuff, right like, like
I prefer to think it's just like the power it's
too strong that a knife ew.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Yeah, because when Voldemort is going over all of the
plans in the department of mystories with Rockwood, and Rockwood's like, Okay,
this is the brain room, this is the death room,
this is the love room. No, no, no, we don't
need to worry about that one. To keep that door locked.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
Well, it said ew cuties and there.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Exactly. It's like the one thing that Voldemort can that
he can't feel, that he can't get his het or
out there, like no, no, no, just this room over here.
I don't want about that well being being.

Speaker 4 (01:29:13):
A little old conspirators conspiracy theory minded, maybe at this moment,
maybe they keep it locked because the government fears this
much love. Right, because if everybody's feeling love and good
towards each other, you don't really need a government because

(01:29:34):
everyone would just work together treat each other well, wouldn't
have to have it. So maybe there there's you know,
this is too powerful. Death is fine, of course, because
death can be used as a tool.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
I already did not like the magical government. Now I
really don't like.

Speaker 4 (01:29:56):
I said, that's very kind of like the conspiracy theory
to boil. But that's partly why, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
None of us do, because it's you know what. Anyway,
let's move on to the next to last room that
we see, which, to be fair, I think is the
one that I'd like to spend time in because it's
really cool, which is the time room. Yes, how freaking
meat is this room? Seriously, it sounds beautiful, it sounds gorgeous, gorgeous, it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:27):
Sounds beautiful, and it sounds crazy and it sounds trippy.
And also I have a really bad just like sense
of time in general, so I'd be a little overwhelmed.
I feel like, but this, this bell jar is just
something like I don't know why. It really caught my
attention more than usual this time that I was like,

(01:30:47):
how does this work? What is the purpose of this?

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
Are they just studying like the effects of aging and
de aging. Are they just trying to speed up time
or slow down time somehow? Is that what they're looking
at with this? It's so weird. I don't understand.

Speaker 3 (01:31:06):
It's bizarre. And this is the thing that Ginny gets
most caught up in. This is the way she wants
to stand and stare at. And I wonder if you know,
for her, there is that sense of like lost time
that she lost her entire first year at Hogwarts basically
not just like losing it in that like it was

(01:31:26):
a waste of her life because this terrible thing happened
that took a year, but because she speaks earlier in
this book about being possessed. How it's like, did you
experience have you experienced long stretches of time where you
don't know what you're doing?

Speaker 4 (01:31:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
And so to have that happen over an entire span
of a year, like, think about how little she remembers
of that year, And when you're fifteen fourteen, a year
of your life is like a good solid chunk. Yeah,
to not know what happened. And so I wonder if
that's why her her fascination is so is so strong
with this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Have any of you read The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
A long time? Ah?

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Like yeah, I mean so, like I mean, if you
you should. It's harrowing but very good. But it's basically
about like she's a student, it's her name's Esther Greenwood,
and it's about like feeling alienated, disillusioned. She has a

(01:32:31):
suicide attempt depression. Yeah, it's all about like feeling trapped
and disconnected and whatever. And so every time I see
that and it's like Ginny, who's the one I can't
help but think about that book and what Ginny went
through in Chamber and how all of those things, Like, again,
we know that the author has been intentional on some things.

(01:32:53):
I'm not saying that this is or isn't, but it
could be.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
And even like the flight symbols of it being a
bird and gin and quidditch player, Yeah, hummingbird who's like
one of the fastest animals on earth, like one hundred
wing beats per second or something.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
Yeah, the smallest like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that is fascinating. Yeah,
but I oh that bell, I mean, I get I
get it. I love to watch a hummingbird be born
and then die and then be born.

Speaker 4 (01:33:31):
It sounds very like it's amazing too, like why you'd
get like entranced by it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
It's just like Francis the Fish, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
It also even just like the visuals remind me of
I think it's a French film called The Diving Bell
and the Butterfly.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
Oh yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
It's and it's like I got I watched it so
long ago, but like it's like a man who's about
a man who's paralyzed and like living inside his own body.
And there's there's a visual of a diving bell in
a butterfly and the bell jar in the Hummingbird, you know,
very very similar just in terms of visuals.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
Yeah, boo boo, creepy but beautiful, I mean yeah, yeah.
Time in the Harry Potter series.

Speaker 4 (01:34:19):
Is so.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
Messy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
Yeah, this is really beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
I mean, time is messy.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
We got a cabinet full of time turners in this room. Yeah,
that gets shattered in the next chapter.

Speaker 2 (01:34:33):
Shattered and then fixed, and then shattered and then fixed
and then shattered and then fixed.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
Yeah, going back and forth anyway, And right off of
this time room is the Hall of Prophecy. And my
question was this is this is interesting to me because
I feel like everything has to be connected, right, Like
these rooms are all connected. So therefore, if there's a
room off a room, it's got to be connected. So
why the Hall of Prophecy off the time room? Why

(01:34:58):
is that like the first step?

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
Because the future is incredibly unpredictable, But prophecies, even though
they don't all come true or the closest thing to
knowing for sure what's going to happen in the future,
that we get and nobody knows how they work. So
I think they keep the Hall of Prophecies because they're
trying to figure out why can some people make prophecies
and some people can't. What is it that makes prophecies

(01:35:22):
come true or not? And how long can a prophecy?
Like think about it, what is the average shelf life
do you think of a prophecy? How many prophecies on
those shelves do you think have been around for decades, centuries,
maybe even a millennium that haven't come true. At what

(01:35:42):
point do you decide if this prophecy has not come
to pass based on the average amount of time that
a prophecy is made and then comes true before you
just discard the record of the original prophecy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
See, I don't think they discard them ever. I think
that that's why I think maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:36:01):
They turn off the little light inside well, right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Because as they're looking, they expand infinitely.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
Because as they're looking at the shelves. As they're looking
at the shelves, there are some that are blue, and
there are some that are a little darker, and there
are some that are black. Right, So like, yeah, I
think that they sort of lose their glow.

Speaker 1 (01:36:22):
Yeah, I want to, like the memories in what's that movie?
Inside Out?

Speaker 3 (01:36:29):
Yeah, they.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
Every now and then they vacuum out the ones that
have come true.

Speaker 3 (01:36:35):
I once read a theory that like a prophecy like
is turned is turned turned off quote unquote turned off
when the people involved in that prophecy have all passed away.

Speaker 4 (01:36:48):
Oh yeah, I've heard that one too.

Speaker 3 (01:36:49):
Like Voldemort and Harry and Trelani and Neville all died
with that before that prophecy can double door and then
it would just like lose his glow. It would be extinguished.
But then you think, there's got to be prophecies that
don't involve people at all.

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
But these are These are interesting because these are just
records of them. So I think they stay and you
can access the record of it, and then even if
it came true or not right, then that record is
still there and still accessible.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
Question in some way, when a prophecy is created, when
someone like when Trelawny gave the he will Return prophecy
to Harry in Prisoner of azkmmand as she was prophesizing that,
as she was saying that, did a little sphere appear
in the Department of Mysteries or would it be like
on Harry to be like, Okay, I heard a prophecy.

(01:37:43):
I have to go report that and then have that
be and then some unspeakable creates it, because if it's
the latter, then there's going to be like millions of
prophecies that aren't even on those shelves because they just
went unreported.

Speaker 4 (01:37:54):
I feel like Dumbledore talks about this hold on. I'm
I'm looking back to.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
The procedure to how to make a prophecy, Yes, prophecy procedures.

Speaker 4 (01:38:04):
He talks about that at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:38:06):
Huh. Well, he does talk about it being updated because
it was a question mark and then they wrote Harry's
name on it, So somebody definitely did that at least
at some point, and it was after James and Lily
were killed, right, I.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
Wonder who wrote that. It's like spider like, is it
Dumbledore's handwriting?

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:38:25):
Is Dumbledore's handwriting otherwise described as spider now it's loopy?

Speaker 4 (01:38:30):
I think I think it's described as loopy.

Speaker 3 (01:38:32):
Maybe spindley and loopy, it is specifically spidery handwriting.

Speaker 1 (01:38:36):
Plus there's there's at some point. I think it's when
Harry starts getting these invitations to lessons with Dumbledore, like
he knows Dumbledore's handwriting.

Speaker 2 (01:38:47):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, while Allison's looking that up, I found
an interesting another interesting throwback comment which you know again,
I love doing this. This is my favorite part of
our final one hundred shows here is going through these
throwback comments. But this one's from our friend Seeker Holly,
who says, when the hosts from the original episode were

(01:39:07):
discussing the large number of prophecies in the Hall, I
was surprised nobody brought up one of the new Halloween
additions to potter More. In chapter thirty four of Order
the Phoenix on potter More, the author tells us about
naming seers. Witches and wizards used to commonly consult these
seers before their children were born to find a name
that would best sum up the future personality or fate

(01:39:29):
of their child, although this practice is becoming increasingly less
common in the wizarding world. I would assume Seeker Holly
would assume that a big chunk of the prophecies in
the Hall of Prophecies are the predicted names of various
magical children. It's hard to believe that there are ninety
seven rows of significant prophecies. And then I posted a

(01:39:51):
link here because I didn't remember that at all ever,
and I thought it was super interesting because I think
that's very plausible. I think that's very plausible. How can
there be ninety seven rows of significant prophecies? They can't
all be about the Dark Lord?

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
You know, I think some of these prophecies aren't prophecies
at all. Expand I think the thing that you're talking
about about how Sears would try to predict the personality
of the child and give a name recommendation based off
of that, I don't think you can do that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:27):
Well, how else do you get Remus Lupin named wolf
mcwolf before he became a werewolf?

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
You have authors who continue this ridiculous practice of naming
their villains things like Stormy mcbad guy because they think
they're being clever, but they're just being a little bit
too on the nose. There's nothing magical about the fact
that Remus Lupin has a wolf he macwolf name. That's
just the least clever example of writing that the author

(01:40:54):
has come up with.

Speaker 3 (01:40:56):
I mean, but in universe, it's definitely just an explosion
explanation on why the characters are named as such.

Speaker 2 (01:41:03):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
Isn't there an explanation at some point that Lupin's father
has got something to do with werewolf research or legislation?

Speaker 4 (01:41:12):
No, it's it's bog arts and apparitions and things.

Speaker 1 (01:41:16):
Well not I thought he's interested in but he's interested
in dark creatures.

Speaker 3 (01:41:19):
Right, Remis Lupin's father, Oh yeah, wrote like some anti
werewolf legislation, and Fender Grayback was so annoyed by that
that he went after his son.

Speaker 4 (01:41:28):
No, he doesn't. He doesn't write. He doesn't write anti
wherewith legislation. What he did was he was trying to warn, Like,
gray Back gets arrested and but nobody believes that he's
like actually a wizard and a werewolf except for Lyle Lupin.

(01:41:49):
And Lyle gets frustrated and says some kind of discriminatory
things about how all werewolves are terrible people and and
blah blah blah. You know, and that's why gray Back
targets Remus. Gotcha, Sorry, I got slightly distracted because I
was looking at this. So the thing that so, Dumbledore says,
the thing that smashed was merely the record of the

(01:42:10):
prophecy kept by the Department of Mysteries. But the prophecy
was made to somebody, and that person has the means
of recalling it perfectly. And then Harry asks, then why
was it my name on the prophecy and not Neville's.
The official record was re labeled after Voldemore's attack on
you as a child. It seemed plain to the Keeper
of the Hall of Prophecy that Voldemore could only have
tried to kill you because he knew you to be

(01:42:32):
the one to whom Sybil was referring. So I guess
we don't know if they like form themselves or if
you have to like.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
That's what I worked them. So that's what I was
going to say next, is that all we know is
there is a keeper of the Hall of Prophecy. We
don't know if the prophecies are automatically generated like when
names appear in the book, or if it is down
to the Keeper of the Hall of Prophecy to generate
a record whenever there's a disturbance in the four or

(01:43:00):
whatever the Harry Potter equivalent of that is. So I
think that at some point the Keeper of the Hall
of Prophecy might have needed to justify their paychecks, so
they started making official records of prophecies that kind of
flirt with the line of what is a prophecy and

(01:43:20):
what is a mundane prediction? Because I'm sorry. You're telling
me that there are prophecy records in that room of
seers trying to predict the magical names of people who
grew up to be of no greater consequence to the
wizarding world. That's ridiculous. I mean the same with the

(01:43:42):
prophecy predicting the one who will bring balance to the force.
Again the Harry Potter equivalent of that. But still you're
telling me that all these things belong in the same
room together. Absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
You did make me think, though, I wonder if to
some degree all seers can almost like feel when a
prophecy is made. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
Yeah, the Harry Potter equivalent of Jedi.

Speaker 4 (01:44:08):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like like you know, like
over Wan being like, I feel a great disturbance the lightsaber.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
If you're if you're a practice, if if you're a
practitioner of divination, that is just another way of saying
that you're force sensitive.

Speaker 4 (01:44:27):
Sure, I do. I do wonder.

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
I'm gonna make Star Wars fans.

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
I think I think obviously this is this is records
of like literally thousands of years of prophecy. So that's
why I think they're partially why there's so many, even
if some of them seem non consequential. But I also
think I had an idea and now I've just forgotten
it flew out of my Then.

Speaker 2 (01:44:54):
Well, then let me just say that the mundane and
the exceptional exist in every space.

Speaker 4 (01:45:00):
Every day, all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
So I mean, you can't have one without the other.

Speaker 4 (01:45:05):
I thought of what it was. There's precedent for this
sort of thing, right like you had like the the
like Delphi, right ancient Greek days, they took records of
a bunch of stuff, right like you have. You have
the Civilian books, which are ancient Roman. I think they're Roman,

(01:45:26):
not Greek. Where literally it was just all these here
a bunch of prophecies, right like here a bunch of
of things happening, and some of them are are crazier,
not crazier, but you know, more mundane seeming than others.
So I see why there could be a lot because
if you're talking literally.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
Millennials, it's years old at least.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
Yeah, because this is just a how do you draw
the line between like what is worthy of being in
the hall of prophecy versus what is I.

Speaker 4 (01:45:58):
Think there is a specific big thing that marks something
as a prophecy. And it's like when Trelawney goes into
a trance, like that is the signal of this is
an actual prophecy.

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
But what if there's even like what if like Trelanney
went into a trance and said, like safe Way is
going to run out of peanut butter this weekend, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:46:21):
I think that would.

Speaker 3 (01:46:23):
I think that would go into the Hall of Prophecy
and on the shelf next to the Voldemort once.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
I like the mundane and the exceptional, because I don't
think you could.

Speaker 3 (01:46:32):
I don't think you could give anyone the power of
like Okay, it's up to you to decide what gets
put on the shelf here and what just gets thrown
at as not being important enough exactly. Also imagine being
the keeper.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Yeah, I don't know how you get the job keeper
of the Hall of Prophecy, Like even within the network
of people who get recruited to work for the Ministry
of Magic, Like, how do they decide who's gonna become
the next keeper of the.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
Obviously they have to have a library a library degree, yeah, obviously.

Speaker 4 (01:47:01):
And I think you have to be a particularly powerful
or sensitive seer obviously.

Speaker 3 (01:47:06):
Imagine you put so much effort into that, into naming
all these organizing them, and then you come into work
the next day and it's been destroyer. They're all by sixteen?

Speaker 4 (01:47:16):
Are you kidding me? Right now?

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
I'd be so, So can you report? Can you like?
Can you can you repair those?

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
Can can can those be fixed?

Speaker 4 (01:47:28):
I don't think so because the way when they smash right,
like that actual record portion, the actual light out And.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
So, my gosh, do you all remember how that was
like a code about when the next book was coming out?

Speaker 4 (01:47:48):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
Yeah, but the fifth book is actually that leads into
a theory.

Speaker 4 (01:47:54):
Yeah, I have a theory of why it's Row ninety
seven because the first book was released in nineteen ninety seven. Cute,
and that just clicked this time reading. I was like,
Row ninety seven. Sorcerer Stone came out in ninety seven.
That's why it's Row ninety seven.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
I like that because it's fun, it's cute, it's simple,
it doesn't have to be like heavily debated. It's just Oh,
that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (01:48:20):
The prophecy is about the birth of Harry Potter in
nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 4 (01:48:24):
Was the birth of Harry Potter exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:48:27):
And is not one of the other magical numbers. It's
not seven or twelve or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:48:31):
So I mean it has a seven that would be
just uh. So Ron finds the prophecy and is like,
it's got your name on it. I found it particularly
interesting that it's Neville who very clearly says, don't touch that, right.
It's almost as if Neville instinctively knows that there was

(01:48:53):
a possibility that he could have been in that spot.
It's almost like he feels that slight connection to it,
and he feels how it could be potentially dangerous, and
so he's like, don't do it right, Like like I
can tell there's something bad about this. I can tell
there's something wrong about you picking that up, So don't.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
Yeah, he's weirdly drawn to it, or.

Speaker 4 (01:49:14):
Because Neville has not said a word.

Speaker 3 (01:49:16):
Yeah, he's really been like along for the ride the
entire time.

Speaker 4 (01:49:20):
This entire time. I don't think he says anything this
entire chapter. I'm gonna go back and look now real fast.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
He gives like a nervous laugh when Hermione says the
blibbering thing.

Speaker 4 (01:49:28):
Yeah, but I don't think he's said a word until
this point.

Speaker 3 (01:49:33):
That's interesting if that is in this chapter.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
Yeah, I don't. I don't know that. Neville's so much
is like feeling that it could be him. But I
think Neville, as you said, if he really doesn't speak
this whole chapter, and I think you're right that he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:49:55):
He says, how are we going to get back out?
He says yes, I says, we're coming with you.

Speaker 4 (01:49:59):
Harry. Okay, it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
The fact is they just experienced the veil, and I
think Neville is feeling like, oh, we should not be here,
like this is really wrong, this place is inappropriate for us,
Like it's beyond our magical level. Serious, Black's not here,

(01:50:25):
Boltimore is not here. We need to just get out
of here, like as quickly. I think he's being overly cautious.
I think he's just being himself here. And Harry responds
perfectly because he is also being himself, because the line says,
and feeling slightly reckless, slightly, And that's just I mean,

(01:50:48):
that's the dichotomy between like, yeah, Neville and Harry, Yeah, exactly,
like Neville and Harry.

Speaker 4 (01:50:55):
I do to say, it's he's suddenly feeling slightly reckless.
I'm like, Harry, you were reckless most of your Why
do you mean the entire thing was reckless? Like this
is not slightly reckless? And also like you've been extremely
reckless this entire chapter.

Speaker 3 (01:51:10):
So like he's either for something to make sense, for
that to be a reason why he dragged them all here. Yeah,
at this point, he's realizing Serious is not here, Voldemort
is not even here. We came all this way for nothing,
and for there to suddenly be this plot twist of
something with his name on it that could be like, well,

(01:51:33):
there's there's a reason that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:34):
I'm And I think he feels, yeah, he feels like
he has to take some sort of action that's going
to justify Yeah, just justify why they're here. And there's
a thing with a name with my name on it,
I'm going to pick it up at this moment?

Speaker 3 (01:51:47):
Is enough?

Speaker 4 (01:51:49):
But it is. It's so hairy, it's so just like, oh,
sweet Summer child. I do have to say, for some
reason reading this, I was like, why does this feel
a little anticlimactic? Like he picks it up and there's nothing,
and like I get that. Like the voice then comes
out of the shadows, but it's still for some reason

(01:52:09):
felt very.

Speaker 1 (01:52:10):
Like, see, I'm going to push back on that just
a little bit, but I'm willing to admit it might
be because of the circumstances under which I read this
for the first time, because it was one of those
times where the first time I read this book, as
I get to the end of this chapter and you

(01:52:30):
hear this voice that turns out to be Lucius Malfoy,
it was one of those times where I was reading
late at night and I said, Okay, as soon as
I finished this chapter, I'm going to put the book down.
I'm going to go to bed. But then the voice
comes out of the shadows, and I'm like, oh, I
don't know why I said I was going to go
to bed after this. That's not going to happen. And
I want to say I didn't finish the whole book,

(01:52:53):
but I thought at that moment I might try to.

Speaker 2 (01:52:56):
I The first thing that I thought of, of course,
was at the end here was ring theory, of course,
and so then I started thinking because it made me
think of the snitch when he gets it from Scrimpter
in book seven, and they're expecting something to happen and
it doesn't. So then I started thinking about, well, so
now that's five and seven, what is there in one?

(01:53:18):
In three and one it's really just the snitch again,
I guess you could say, and in three is the
glowy orb the moon that sort of sets off the whole.
This is very loose, not not very strong bas here,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:53:34):
One maybe also the philosopher's siser's stone or something. They're
small handtild object with a lot of power to it, or.

Speaker 4 (01:53:43):
Be shaped that somebody else wants him to get.

Speaker 3 (01:53:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, one also wants him to acquire it
because they themselves cannot.

Speaker 2 (01:53:52):
Yeah, I do. I do think now looking back, I
mean not looking back, just like reading it now is
in a I'm like, oh okay, Like I see what
you mean about how it's like a little anti climactic. However,
as Jeff pointed out, there's no way you're putting down
that book. Oh no, first time, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:54:12):
But it doesn't feel I guess it's it's just has
felt like because we're feeling like Harry feels right with that,
this build up of tension, tension, tension, tension, tension, and
like we get to like what should be this big
moment and he picks it up and than nothing, Yeah, well,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:54:27):
It really needs a soundtrack the book. It needs a
soundtrack in this moment like yeah, yeah, yeah, you do, and.

Speaker 4 (01:54:35):
That's where it ends. I was like, this feels very short,
and it's interesting because I think, obviously this this is
part of just this huge episode that takes over the
last like I don't know, fifth of the book or
something that's several chapters in a row. But I was like,
I feel like I was expecting or remembering that more

(01:54:58):
happened in this chapter than actually.

Speaker 1 (01:55:00):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
I totally went into it thinking that we were gonna
like see all the rooms and talk about the layout,
but that's in the next chapter.

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
So when they go back through all these rooms and
all this stuff actually happens, like the brain flying out
of the tank and the memories trailing behind it, or
the time Turner's all smashing right, yeah, the death that
you're getting his head in the bell jar, and weird
weirdness happening.

Speaker 4 (01:55:26):
Yeah. This really is kind of a transition chapter in
a lot of ways, Like they're transitioning from Hogwarts to
this new location, and then we're just kind of like
figuring out this new location before the actual real action
starts to happen. Yeah, in a lot of ways.

Speaker 3 (01:55:43):
So it's so wild how different this chapter in the
next star because you're going through all the same rooms.
But this chapter is all like walking slowly being quiet
because there's no one here, and like like when Hermione
says like, don't go yelling for him, and Harry's like
he had never felt more like incentivized to just be quiet.
And then the next chapter is never yelling. Yeah, the

(01:56:06):
next chapter is yelling and screaming and fighting and shrieking
and spells crashing and doors collapsing and breaking, and but
it's all in these same exact rooms.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
Just wild. Yeah, well that's a fun chapter.

Speaker 4 (01:56:22):
Yeah, there's lots of interesting stuff to dig into in
this one.

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
Yeah, it's a good one.

Speaker 4 (01:56:29):
And that's that's our chapter. So we have to thank
our lovely, wonderful Meg, who I have often said is
a is a Greek nymph. Meg. Where is there anywhere
you people can find you online or anywhere about of surse.

Speaker 3 (01:56:49):
Yeah, if you want to follow me on my Instagram,
which I admittedly have not updated in a while, it's
at megis me e G G U S S. And
I'm also an artist. If you want to check out
my art, it's at meg dash scottdash art dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
Sweet and of course you can find her on MuggleCast
because you're on there occasionally.

Speaker 3 (01:57:10):
Occasionally on muggle Cast, I show up sometimes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
Well, thank you, as Alison said, for being here. It was,
it was. This was a very nice, full circle moment,
as you said, really.

Speaker 3 (01:57:20):
So very full circle. Thank you for having me on
for such a fun chapter, and it was. It was
great to open the double Doore again. Think back to
those days when I was transcribing all the episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
I was gonna say, how many times you typed that out? Yeah? Yeah,
well we only have twenty ish left, so you know,
we'll get there. And speaking of the future episodes, episode
for eighty one is going to be a chapter revisit
of Deadly Hallow's Chapter three, the Dursley's Departing, which wow,

(01:57:53):
it's another fun one too. I mean, I feel like
we only have good chapters left, so well, yeah, yeah,
we're getting there, but it should be a fun one.

Speaker 1 (01:58:02):
And in the meantime, if you would like to keep
up with us, you can follow us on pretty much
any social media outlet at alohamorra MN or on Facebook
at open the Dumbleedoor and remember to subscribe, save and
share this episode with your friends. And this has been
episode eighty of the final one hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:58:23):
I'm Jeff, I'm Allison, and I'm Kat. Thank you for
listening to episode four hundred and eighty of Aloha Mora.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
You know what happens when you open the dumbleedoor.

Speaker 3 (01:58:34):
Something blibbering, no dhood.

Speaker 5 (01:58:47):
Aloha Mora is produced by Tracy Dunstan. This episode was
edited by Patrick Muselek. Aloha Mourra was co created by
Noah Freed and Kat Miller and is brought to you
by APWBD LLC.

Speaker 2 (01:59:12):
And it's good because Megno's riverside because Eric, So that's helpful.

Speaker 3 (01:59:16):
Well, because I MuggleCast, I kind of know what I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (01:59:19):
Yeah, that's helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
Did uh? You probably heard the story about when we
had Micah on the show and forgot to hit record,
oh No, about forty minutes in. Michael was like, Hey,
just just to stop. Usually when I use riverside, it
like tells me I'm recording.

Speaker 3 (01:59:34):
I was like, why did he wait forty minutes?

Speaker 2 (01:59:38):
I don't think he noticed. I don't know, but he
was such a trooper. Like our editor put the whole
episode together and then he listened back and like re
recorded the word. Like he was such a trupid. It
was like the best and the worst possible person it
could have happened to, because he was understanding. But also
it's like, oh, you're a professional. This is embarrassing. Yeah

(02:00:02):
but whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:00:03):
Anyway, well, you know, I'm not I'm not that aware
to be able to point that out.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
So well, thankfully I did not forget recording.

Speaker 3 (02:00:10):
I'm not going to point it out.

Speaker 4 (02:00:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:12):
No, we are definitely recording this time around, so

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