PS/SS, 4 Revisit: Is This a Harry Special?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
This is episode four hundred and seventy five of Aloha
Mora for October.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Twenty fifth, two thousand and twenty five.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Welcome to another episode of Aloha Mora, the fandom's original
Harry Potter book Club.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I am Alison Sigurd.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Grace Candido Beacher.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
And I'm Josh Cook and it is my great privilege
to introduce my best friend and first time guest on
the podcast, Jason May. Welcome, buddy.

Speaker 5 (00:56):
Hello, Hello, Yay, you're here. Excited to be here now, listeners.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
It only took me about four months to convince him
to do it. He said no every single time, and
then I put him on the schedule anyway, So he
is here, he is excited. What what? What? Really? What
really got it? For Grace and Allison? We've me and
Jason have been friends for seven eight years. Now we
get a church together. And what really got it was

(01:24):
I said, we both have he's getting ready to have
his second kid. I've got I've got two kids, as
you all know. And what I said was, when they
are teenagers, how much fun would it be to say
we did a podcast together and now he's here.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
You gotta have something.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
So when they're teenagers. They're like, dum.

Speaker 6 (01:46):
Of my son finding everything I've said on this podcast?
Are you kidding me? If he finds it, I'm gonna
tell him it wasn't me. As I say my full
full name in.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
The beginning, your face is on video. No, no it's
not me.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yeah. Luckily the outlands things that I say get edited
out for the most So oh no, all right, Jason,
for the listeners, let him know kind of your Harry
Potter journey, how you got into it, your house, you know,
kind of any information like that, so we can we
can all know we do. Uh, nope, we're missing Raven

(02:29):
Cloth today, but yeah, Jason, go ahead and tell them
everything you can. Then we'll get going.

Speaker 5 (02:35):
Absolutely, So it was actually just goodness. Josh, what was
it a few years ago that?

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah, twenty twenty two maybe, yeah, twenty one twenty two.

Speaker 5 (02:44):
That was whenever I first went through the entire series,
and so I'm very new at this. But the cool
part about it was, and I think Josh will attest
to this, it was cool because I as I was
going through the books, I would call Josh and talk
to him about where I was us and he knew
all everything all of all the details and everything there.
So it was really cool to kind of throw my

(03:06):
thoughts and predictions and what I thought was gonna happen,
and he would ask questions. So for those of you
that have maybe haven't read the books, find someone that
has and they've they know everything's gonna happen. It's it
was a really cool experience to bounce those thoughts off
of Josh, and Josh would laugh at me pretty often
as I made predictions that were completely wrong. But it
was neat and I watched I actually did the books

(03:27):
before I watched the movies, and so so I wasn't
spoiled by anything either, which was good. Yeah, it was cool.
It was a cool experience. But I am a Hufflepuff
through and through. There's there's no change in that, no
doubt there's part of me. It's like, you know, obviously
all the cool characters mostly maybe you know there's there's
some cool Hufflepuff characters, but they're Gryffindor.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
But but I love it.

Speaker 5 (03:51):
So Hufflepuff is definitely my personality. And and yeah, so
I'm excited to be on here and it's really a
fresh h Harry Potter fan from just a few years.

Speaker 6 (04:02):
I feel like we get some of the most buck
wild and really cool theories from freshman. Oh yeah, because
I've been steeped in this for many a year.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
I am, I would say stagnant.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
Yeah, I am always happy to hear like new theories
and new fun ideas like I'm over here, just like
I was since the Dremiani.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
And back again. I thought we thought the old magic
to me, which I was there when it was written,
was that when it was.

Speaker 6 (04:34):
Written there my dial up internet by.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
By Jason would call with like, hey, I think this
is gonna happen, and I would go maybe, I don't know,
who knows, who knows?

Speaker 6 (04:53):
I would have told you bad like things that didn't.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Happen, that would happened.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
And Grace is Lytherin.

Speaker 6 (05:01):
So you haven't gone to the part yet where the
Raven without Tower falls.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
Yeah, it was. It was cool because I would read
it and often, like I would just you kind of
experience these characters for the first time, and it was
really cool to kind of experience those reactions and even
talk through it with Josh as I went through it,
to say, these are my reactions to these characters, and
you know, really getting to see kind of the growth.
But also you know, Josh got to see that too,
is kind of that I went through it, so it

(05:28):
was it was really cool.

Speaker 6 (05:29):
I cannot wait to hear what you think about these characters.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah, he does have some heavy, heavy thoughts on Haggard.
So we're I'm really excited. We okay, this is uh,
this maybe a spoiler for the episode, but on my like,
whenever ID top Haggard into my phone, it automatically goes
into all caps because of texts with Jason.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
So yeah, I'm really excited. Listener. That is a perfect
segue into letting you know that we are going to
discuss Sorcerer's Stone chapter four, the Keeper of the Keys.
The podcast originally talked about this chapter all the way
back on episode number two from May twenty twelve. We

(06:18):
were doing more than one chapter at a time. That
was Sorcerer's Stone chapters four through six called Vernon Dursley
Wizard question Mark, which, like, if that doesn't tell you
more about the original fan theories that were happening.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's because Noah was on that episode.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
That's true. That's fair, that's fair. The host, So that
or word Noah, Caleb and guest Meg Philosco question Mark
Vernon Dursley's a wizard.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I need you all to know that in May of
twenty twelve, I hadn't graduated high school yet.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
I was just graduating.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
I had just graduated.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
College, graduated the next month from my high school.

Speaker 6 (07:04):
So, baby, baby, good stuff. Yay podcast listeners, I'm quite old.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
I probably wait, hold up, I've probably listened to that
episode in the house.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Where I am now that I love it. Actually, yeah,
that has been there for a long time.

Speaker 6 (07:26):
I probably listened to it at my first temp job
when it was my only comfort time. Listeners, I've been
here a while.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I wondered, did I comment on anything. I didn't look
at the comments this week. I should have.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
They're all they're all those string shots. They're not on
Discuss unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Okay, I'll have to look later. That's fine.

Speaker 6 (07:54):
But we got we gotta, we gotta acknowledge the sponsor
for this episode, though, before we go on on. The
episode is sponsored by Bianca Lynch on Patreon.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yes, I know her, we know her, we do.

Speaker 6 (08:12):
Our Patreon offers a lot of great perks, including ad
free episodes, monthly meetups with the hosts, and so much more.
Perks started just three dollars a month, so head on
over to patreon dot com slash Alohomara to become a sponsor.
And if you're looking for non monetary ways to sponsor
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your buddies and your favorite Harry Potter communities and tell

(08:34):
me about your favorite Harry Potter communities because I have
to tell them about my book coming out, but we'll
get to that later. We appreciate the support of every
one of our listeners. However you're able to do it,
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yay, three turns should do it. Chapter revisit chapter four,
The Keeper of the Keys. Let's get into this then,

(09:12):
you know, let's go way back.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Into down the Door and get into this chapter.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
I have not done a Sorcerer's Stone chapter in like
I don't even know how long it's anyway.

Speaker 6 (09:23):
It was so refreshing to go back like this is
so cute after so long. Okay, listeners, you guys, I've
been I've been struggling right now.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
There's been a lot of heavy topics I've been writing
about recently to.

Speaker 6 (09:36):
Go back to Sorcerer's Stone was like a breath of
friend It really was.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
But well, we'll talk about that because I that's like
my first bullpot. But anyway, let's talk about the chapter
summary first.

Speaker 6 (09:48):
Yes, oh, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yes, no, it's fine. It's my fault I brought up first.
I'm not going to get through this.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
We're a mess right now.

Speaker 6 (09:59):
I don't even know what to transition anymore.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
You guys, take it away.

Speaker 6 (10:03):
I'm gone.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Here we go.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
With a bang and a crash, the door of the
little hut on the rock in the middle of a
stormy sea breaks down and reveals none other than the
giant Rubeus Hagrid, keeper of keys and grounds at Hogwarts.
What follows will change Harry forever. Despite the Jerseley's protests,
Haggard tells Harry the truth.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
He's a wizard.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Not only that, he's a famous wizard who somehow managed
to feed the most evil sorcer of all time while
just a baby. For once, Harry gets all his questions answered,
well almost all, and has shown real kindness and friendship.
But Harry isn't so sure. After all, how could he
be a wizard if he's been belittled and bullied his
whole life. Stale Haggard's tale gives Harry a new sense

(10:44):
of self, and the adventure begins in earnest.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
It's so cute? Why is this chapter? I was like,
why is this so cute?

Speaker 6 (10:52):
There's you know what, it's full of a lot of
weird stuff, but it is very very heartwarming.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
And it's so nostalgic too, Like there's I was like,
there are so many like iconic lines in this chapter,
just like left and right. Every other line is just
like one that everybody's been quoting for thirty years, right,
and in.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Some cases quoting incorrectly.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
True, but it is.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
It was sweet to go back to this and be like, oh,
look look at where it really kicked off.

Speaker 6 (11:26):
Beautiful, so simple, so wonderful, and nothing has to be
overly complicated crazy.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
Well, speaking of like over complicated and crazy is like
what I do agree that this chapter is cute and
it's nostalgic and it's all those things. While going through it, though,
you sit there and you go the author really didn't
have a lot of our series. I guess the rules
of Magic planned for here. So yeah, and we can

(11:55):
we'll get into it as we go, but like things
like the trace weren't really thought of at this point
kind of you know, just kind of the dynamics between
family and and all those kinds of things, like you
could see them getting worked out through the series, which
like you can't, you can't, maybe you can, but like

(12:15):
it is, it would be incorrect for us to expect
all seven books, every rule to be intact right here
as it's developing. But I say that all because listeners,
I'm gonna be very annoying today because I'm gonna say,
what about this all? Maybe we should have thought about
that and book one, but here we are.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, no, wait, it's definitely you can definitely see having
read all the books, you can see where there were
gaps in the world building at this point, which is normal, right,
It's totally normal. And especially it was her first book
she was writing ever, and it was meant for kids,
and so there's a lot of there's also probably a

(12:59):
lot of stuff that like publishers and editors like have
hands in in what's there and what's not and so yeah,
it's it is interesting though, because there are definitely things
that it's like if if this was all the rules
had been said at this point, some of these things
wouldn't have happened.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Right well, and so the the other part of that,
too is like it's not lost on on me that
we are crazy people, that we true that Like, was
was the series ever meant to be read by the
same person dozens and dozens of times picked apart chapter
in line by line?

Speaker 1 (13:38):
No, So no writing is ever done to be picked
apart like that, right, people like me?

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Yeah, just go through, just just go through the joint.
That was fun. And I get mad. I get just
mad because this rule didn't work, like anyway anyway.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think we all have our specific rules that we
get miffed about. How could you possibly do this?

Speaker 2 (14:06):
How could you possibly mess this up?

Speaker 4 (14:09):
Grace?

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Oh god, I have to think of it now.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Mine is mine is Mine is the trace And that's
why I'm kind of harping on it. But mine is
the trace because I don't think that I don't think
that wizards understand how it works. I don't think the
author understands how it works. And it's also very racist
in general.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
Like it's also like it's kind of hellish.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, it's a little hellish.

Speaker 6 (14:33):
It's a little weird. It's it's a little like Big brotherish.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah. The trace is definitely the rule that gets set
up throughout that I go. The more you learn about it,
the more it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 6 (14:47):
Mm hmmm. So it's not meant to be pokes that hard.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, Alison, do you have one? I love putting you
on the spot.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Mine's a complete non sequitor.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
What is it? Because I'm trying.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
I get super annoyed by wand allegiances.

Speaker 6 (15:07):
Although this is way later on topic, but it annoys
the hell out of me. I'm not I'm not a
huge fan of how it works. It does not make
sense at all to me anyway, all right, anyway, but
maybe that's just me being salty.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Do I have one?

Speaker 4 (15:25):
I mean, I mean the thing that you are the
most annoyed about is Book four?

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Am I? Oh no, it's Book five. It's it's caps
Lock Harry what I love cap I understand.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
It, but I still get frustrated with him because I'm like,
my dude, like, like these people are trying to help you,
Like will you help the people anyway?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I can't.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
I can't.

Speaker 6 (15:50):
What do I get bringing up Tom Jason's Yeah's favorite one?

Speaker 5 (16:02):
I think in the in a similar sense to Josh,
it would be that the trace, because I think as
you read it through and you really just kind of
read it for what it is, the most frustrating parts
of the stories are whenever Harry gets caught up into
issues because of the trace, and so you are sitting
there thinking to yourself, oh, my goodness, if they just
understood why he was doing it or what was going

(16:22):
on with it, then maybe they would listen. But obviously
they were pitted against him. And I think about whenever
he fut off to the mentors and then had to go
in front of the ministry specifically, and as you're kind
of reading that one, and you go, if you just
understood what he did.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, then but of course that's right.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
The problem with that is that the ministry set the
mentors out on him.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
So yep, anyway, rule of magic that botherished me.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I will try and think of it through this whole
episode now, because literally nothing is coming to mind.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Leave it in the comments since you have one.

Speaker 6 (16:54):
Yeah, listeners, leave yours in the comments as well, so
we can all fume together.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
We've only got twenty four of these left, so you
might as well give it up now, all right. So
first off, like the very first thing that we see
is Haggard knocking on the door of the hut, which,
like I did think showed a restraint on Haggard's part
that I didn't know that he had. And then and
then he really only beats the door down to where

(17:22):
it falls after Vernon threatens him that he would shoot,
or like maybe he said that he had the gun.
I can't remember. Yeah, I armed.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, Yeah, that's faustating that you think that, because I've
always just assumed breaking down the door was an accident
because it's storming outside, right, so I don't think he
can hear of her it was, and I always just
assumed it was just he's just knocking on the door,
and eventually this old, yeah, crappy huts door just like.

Speaker 6 (17:50):
Definitely, you know, I could see Haggard just being like
mishearing I'm armed, for I have arms.

Speaker 7 (17:55):
He's like he has arms, or he's like I heard voices.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I guess he said to come in here we go exactly.

Speaker 5 (18:05):
It's so damn charming when you do look at it,
it says that you know, at the beginning it's a knock,
and then it's at the next part when the door
actually breaks, it says he hits it with such force. Yeah,
there's definitely I think I think there's a change of
the knocking. I think that then at that point in time,
it's like, okay, I'm beating this thing down.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
I wonder if he was like, oh, it's storming. Maybe
they don't hear me knocking like normally.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Knocking, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
I do have to say, speaking of the noise, though,
Dudley wakes up and says, where's the cannon?

Speaker 2 (18:36):
And then Vernon has a rifle.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Which I think is fascinating because guns are fairly unusual
in the UK right, Like they're usually only allowed for
certain like sports and certain hunting, but even that is
not super common because it's out in the countryside for
the most part. And so it just fascinates me that,

(19:00):
first of all, Dudley's first like.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Assumption is that there's a cannon, like what.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
And I just wonder if it is supposed to be
trying to say something about their violent tendencies that both
of those characters exhibit.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
So get I do think that it is uncommon. I
think that the type of raffle that well to be fair.
I guess we don't really we're not one hundred percent
sure that it says he's holding a raffle, but really
for like home defense things, like you would expect it
to be a shotgun, not a rifle.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
The description.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, so like I don't I don't know enough about
the UK laws on those kinds of things. It does
seem odd that the UK would that he would be
able the day before to just walk into the store,
pick it up and then come out like that is
a very American thing.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
That feels very black market too, well, because he does.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
I don't think he goes into a store.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
I think he literally just like meets a random guy
and like comes back with this package.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
You I do not remember what he did.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
When you think about the rifle, it's it and maybe
not being the right gun what you're talking about, Josh,
of what the people would maybe normally use. I think
that's probably maybe a look at just kind of Vernon
and his mind and how intelligent he is about greeting
the right thing. And so maybe it has something to
do with the fact that hey, he's just grabbing whatever

(20:40):
he thinks is going to work, but maybe not really
thinking it through. From that standpoint, So maybe that's why
it's a rifle.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
So it says they had parked at the coast. Uncle
Vernon locked all inside the car and disappeared, and then uh,
Uncle Vernon was back and he was smiling. He was
also carrying a long, thin package and didn't answer an
Petunia when she asked what he bought, So like, literally,
where did he get this? He's randomly on the coast.

(21:08):
It just like comes back with a rifle.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Like what the heck? Like this is shady as.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Heck, but I do I do like the idea though
that like my black my black market arms dealer is
like wrap them up my gun that I bought for him,
Like here you go, just free.

Speaker 5 (21:27):
It's in the original packaging.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
But this is a real numbers all marked out, Like
he doesn't like.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
The start of a true crime doc. This is this
is really you.

Speaker 6 (21:41):
Don't like, You're like that's so funny. No it's not.
She was running for the hills at that point. The
second Fernan leaves the car, Petunia needs to take the
wheel and drive it. Okay, what doing My god, we'll
get into Petunia.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Oh yeah, no, she's she's gonna have a moment here.

Speaker 6 (22:02):
I'm not happy, yeah, yeah, and I haven't been.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Ever well, you know I do. I do like the
judxtaposition that you have there of burning being out being
here like I'm armed. He's pointing a gun at Haggard
and Haggard walks in like I couldn't do for a
spot of tea, could you? I.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's so British, it's amazing, Like it's very daring. He's good.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
He's like this huge man with this wild hair and beard.
He like breaks the door down and then as soon
as he steps in. You know, I think it's lovely
how this tells us a lot about Haggard as a character,
Like he looks very intimidating, and he can seem very intimidating.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
But first of all, it describes him having to.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Like squeeze and stoop into the room and then he
immediately fixes the door, turns around and says do you
have tea?

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Like, which I think is just it's so sweet, and
I think it really does show just who Haggard is
as a person.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
You think he's gonna be scary, and yet he is the.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Softest teddy bear of a half human that you've ever met.

Speaker 6 (23:11):
In your life, not always until yeah, most of the time. Yeah,
it's like which which.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
We'll see here. I mean, he loves he is, he
is the extremes of it all. Like the same thing
here he walked in fixes the door now now granted,
like he fixes the door because he broke it. It's
storming outside, trying to trying to fix all that kind
of stuff.

Speaker 6 (23:34):
He also probably does this fairly often by accident. He's
very much to just picking something on a door.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Well. Obviously he also has no idea when to stop drinking,
so he is drunk pretty often. So I guarantee that
he is breaking the door of the three roomsticks regularly.
Oh my god, but it is. It is nice like
you do you see, like the difference in perception of
what of what Haggard seems like and who he actually is.

(24:05):
You know, he can't get sideways, as we know. But
also like that Haggard doesn't call out that he is
a giant like whatever he's doing introductions and things like that,
he doesn't say that he's a giant. Now does the
author know that he's a half giant at this point?
Does Haggard feel some type of shame about it? Like

(24:25):
we see that. We never hear anything about it until
book four anyway. But I mean as far as like
the original like readings of this, you know, instead of
the people like us have read it dozens of times. Jason, like,
whenever you met Hagrid, did you know that he was
a giant or did you just think that he was

(24:46):
a big person.

Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah, I think it was just that he was a big,
hairy guy. I mean, that was That was kind of
the thought process that I had. That was just a
little bit clumsy or incredibly strong. That was that was
the That was what was going through my mind when
I was reading it.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I do think at least a good portion of Haggard's
backstory was figured out by this point, just because at
the end he does mention at the end of the chapter,
he does mention that he was expelled and he doesn't
want to talk about it. Yeah, and that definitely comes
up later. So that to me feels like the author

(25:23):
at least had a good chunk of his backstory, which
I think would probably include the like half giant, maybe
not necessarily all the details about being a half giant,
but yeah, that he was one.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Well, I agree with that because there's so much foreshadowing
in the chapter for that, specifically because Harry says, or
maybe the narration says, the Haggard was a giant of
a man like too big to be allowed things like that,
and then even like a few Maybe it's the next
page of the chapter. Haggard's talking and he says anyway,

(26:02):
Harry and the books has said the giant turning his
back on the Dursley. So like, I think, as readers,
this is something that the author had figured out, that
this was going to be a giant, but maybe not
all of the terrible things we know about giants or
the perception the Wizarding World has about giants, especially Ron,

(26:23):
because Ron's the one that tells us all that kind
of stuff in book four. But I think that we
are being set up to believe Hagrid and not care
that he's a giant. Yeah you know what I mean,
Like it's not directly called out, it's alluded to, and
he's he isn't even called a giant, but not how

(26:44):
I'm Haggard, I'm a giant, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I mean I think some of it too is
the child's perception here as well.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Right, Harry is eleven. He's also small for his age.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
We know that.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
So this big guy walks in of course gonna be
like giant, right like, which which I think is interesting
and helps come up with that, and it also helps
sets this a little bit more in that very kind
of fantasy realm. To have a giant right that that
very much kind of works into the genre that we're

(27:18):
getting it.

Speaker 6 (27:18):
It was like literally anything as possible at this point. Yeah, yeah,
so it makes sense.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Yeah, So whenever when we meet Haggard, we're immediately you know,
we're we're on Harry's side. This is the fourth yeah,
this is the fourth chapter. We're on Harry's side. The
books are Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone, so like
as readers were already like in Harry's corner. And then
as soon as we meet this person that we don't

(27:44):
know and everyone that we have ever met in this
book except for the first chapter, sucks. Sucks so hard, yeah,
so hard.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
We actually we did though we met Haggard in the
first chapter, so we also did have a little bit.
So as soon as he drops his name, we start
making those connections, right or we're supposed to serving those.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
Connection exactly, and because the first thing that we hear
about Haggard in chapter four is exactly where we left
Hagrid in chapter one, where Haggard drops Harry off and
then he immediately tells, Harry, haven't seen you since you
were about this big and then you know to I
don't think that Haggard's doing this on purpose. I don't

(28:28):
think that he's doing this to like get Harry on
his side or whatever. I don't think Haggard thinks about
things like that, you know. But immediately he's talking about
Harry's parents, and we know from previous chapters that theresy's
never talk about Harry's parents. It's very dismissive. It's all
these things, and now he has information.

Speaker 6 (28:49):
And also it's so refreshing to have this like very
open character when we've had so many closed ones before
this and so many closed ones after it. Haggard is
one of the only characters where you're like, Okay, I'm
about to get the full story straight up. He is, oh,
and he's I forgot to mention this. He is like
the ultimate transitionary character. So he is going to carry

(29:11):
our lead into the Wizarding World and back out of
again once he's dead, you know, yeah, like he is.
He is the one that introduces us to new areas basically,
And I.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Find it so striking that Haggrid shows such immediate kindness
to Harry. Right, Yeah, he smiles at him. It multiple
times it talks about how he's smiling at Harry. Right,
He's beaming at Harry. He notes right away, you look
just like your parents. I mean, the first thing he
fully really says to is oh, and happy birthday.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Here's a cake I made for you, right.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Which I was rereading this and I was like, I
was like, wait, this is so sweet, Like I'm picturing
Hagrid being like Dublore's like, Hagrid, will you go pick
up Harry.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
I don't think these letters are getting through. And Haggard's
like yes, and it's his birthday. I have to make
a cake and I'm making a cake.

Speaker 6 (30:00):
He's much a mother figure than he is a father figure, like,
very much more maternal than he is paternal.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's so endearing of a character.

Speaker 6 (30:09):
And I know it's supposed to be played for laughs
because he's so large, but there's something so endearing and
beautiful about that. Honestly, he cares for these animals, He
cares for the students, He cares for harrot Ron and Hermione.
He cares enough to make a cake, Like he bakes
things even if they're kind of bad. He doesn't really
know because his his his way of judging it is
completely different from a normal person.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
But that's also Haggard's perception of himself. Whenever, whenever Nobert
Norberta is born, he says you something about him being
it's mummy, you know, like like look at your mommy
or whatever, you know what I mean, like.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Which I think is fascinating because we know he didn't
really have a maternal figure in his life, right he talks.
He specifically says like his mom wasn't really the maternal
and so his dad was kind of trying to step
in and fill that role. And I wonder if to
some degree, growing up Haggard felt like there were certain

(31:09):
things in his household with just him and his dad
that he felt like he had to step in and do, yeah,
because there was no like mom figure in the picture.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
And so that that's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
Now, I mean a bad quality about Haggard is like
you're if you're not on his side, you're really not
on the side, because, like Alison, you're saying all these
wonderful things about Haggard and and they're they're right. He's
very nice to Harry, very cond to Harry. But before
he's conned to Harry, he looks Dudley in the face

(31:42):
and goes bud jeff y'o lump, like okay, yeah, I okay, listen.

Speaker 6 (31:49):
We've gone through all his good qualities.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Now here's how he's jack.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, now here's how we actually feel about it.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
We have to ask this question because and I asked
this because okay, I'll get into this. Is Haggard a bully?
And I hate to say it because I'm a Gryffindor myself,
But I've been thinking a lot about gryffind Doors and
I think we have a tendency to lean towards that
sometimes because Gryffindors often have a very kind of rigid

(32:20):
My worldview is the righteous worldview, and so we're always right,
and there's a lot of fiery personality behind that in
most Gryffindors, and so interacting with someone that you find
annoying or who's wronged you in some way, or someone
you care about often brings out the worst in Gryffindors,
and it's very clear, like we're not very good at

(32:42):
hiding that.

Speaker 6 (32:44):
On the flip side, though, I criticizing the grid, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Like I'm saying that as one myself, because I I'll
be honest, I do do this myself.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Like I know, I like.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
And I'll say I'll say though, I'll on the flip
side for this Gryffindors, we will hold grudges, but we
get over them very quickly as soon as we think
someone's redeemed themselves, like and you see that multiple times
in the series. Okay, because he never does redeem himself,

(33:19):
but but like I mean, you see it with like
Fred and Percy. Right as soon as Percy like swallows,
I was an idiot. Yeah, you see it with Shamus.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You see it with you see it with Ron, you
see it with Harry.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Like as Gryffindors. I think that's part of what makes
a Gryffindor a Gryffindor. Is someone does something wrong, we're
gonna fight, right and like I'm right and you're wrong,
We're gonna fight. But as soon as you redeem yourself.
Everything is forgotten, You're embraced back with open arms.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Everything is great, right, And so this is this is
what I get.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
To hear is have is very much a Gryffindor as well,
and he kind of does this right. He calls Dudley
a great lump, he calls him a pudding, he calls
him some very terrible, demeaning names.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
When he's a child.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
She says some very condescen Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, he says some.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Very condescending things to Vernon a petunia. And then we
also get the incident at the end where he tries
to turn Dudley into a pig, giving him that pigtail,
which rereading this, I was like, wait a second, why
is he going after Dudley, not Vernic, right, And this
is one of those things where I was like, I
think this is a rare occasion where the movie tweaked

(34:40):
something and made it better. Because the reason that Hagrid
goes for Dudley in the book is because Dudley has
snuck and started eating Harry's birthday cake. And so it's
kind of like a spur of the moment he's pigging out.
So we're gonna just make that happen, right, But in
the book there's literally no reason.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
He's just like, well, okay, so I really I want
to dig into this well, but I want I want
answers from everybody. Is Haggard a bully?

Speaker 5 (35:14):
My answer is yes, Jason, Oh, there's part of me
that I do want to say something real quick talking
about him, the things he says and what he says
to what he says to Dudly and when he says
to Vernon. I think, Josh, you can relate to this
a lot because Josh says this all the time. I
just say what everybody's thinking and so and that's a

(35:35):
griffinder for sure, type situation like overconfidence. I'm just gonna
call this bull crap out and I'm just gonna say it.
And so there's part part of that. And so the
empathetic side of me is always like, we don't have
to say that out loud, you know, we can just
gonna move on.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
But okay, okay, and then you teach me and then
you touch.

Speaker 8 (35:53):
Me, okay, huffle, Yes, Justin Justin Finch Fletchley in My Life,
Allison text me afterward and says, thank you for saying that.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
Like someone needed to go.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
On, Yes, Hufflepuffs are thinking it, and Hufflepuffs are gonna
be side eying everyone, but we're not going to say
it until later in the secret group chat. Griffin Ors
will just be like, I don't give a crap. I'm
going for it.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's hard, and I will plot my revenge for the.

Speaker 6 (36:28):
Next and in the back, just like, I'll say, that's interesting,
what an interesting thing to say to me?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
That's scary and the.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Most stunningly, absolutely devastating way possible.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
A Slytherin will just.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
Be like, really, but I think in this case, I
think it's hard to say no because that's exactly what
he's doing. He's he's bullying. But I'm trying to think of, like,
what are some other examples of that that that we
really see that bullying outside of maybe people we want
to see. I don't know if we want to see bullied,

(37:06):
but I think about it.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
But that's but see that just because you want to
bully someone doesn't mean that you should bully them. There's
all kinds of people that I would like to bully,
but I'm not a bully, so I don't bully them.
All right, You don't care.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I will say this. I think.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
This is maybe a terrible thing to rip off in
this case. But Haggard is a person who displays bullying behaviors,
leaning with the person instead of completely labeling them.

Speaker 6 (37:46):
So that's what they're calling people's psychopaths, is displaying psychopathic
tendencies either mild. I will say, it just means he's
a bullyer.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
You have not softened to this exactly.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
I mean so, I will I will say that I
do think that it's odd that Haggard is coming in
so hot against Dudley in particular. It's weird that you
see him in like you're immediately passing him off, like
we know that he's there for Haggard, Harry. He's happy

(38:25):
to see Harry. He took on the job to see Harry.
I think Haggard's annoyed though, that he has had to
come all the way out here in the rain, in
the storm, and it's just like, get out of my way.
I need to talk to the person I'm here to
talk to. I don't have time for you, you big lump.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Classic Griffin. Door out of the way. Let me do
what I need to do.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
I I've got a controversial opinion. I don't know. I
don't know if this is this is so bad because
I love Hagrid.

Speaker 6 (39:03):
I think, like most wizards, I think he's a little racist.
You're not wrong, though, I think he's just a little
like And this isn't just like, if anything, is kind
of worse than saying he's a bully.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
He's just like.

Speaker 6 (39:17):
Ignorant against this very specific group of people, and he
has no time for them because they are in his
mind and how he's been raised lesser than he is,
so he doesn't really have time to explain himself. He
doesn't have time to give them respect, he doesn't really
have time to even speak with them in a way
whether he's treating them like people, and of course.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
They love that. They respond so well.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
I've never I've never thought of Hagrid like that. I
get like mainly because of Haggard's position.

Speaker 6 (39:47):
You see him display these tendencies towards a lot of people.
I only ever see this from I can't remember another
time where he is fat phobic at anyone. It has
just been towards Dudley in the Dorsys, And have to
assume this is the only time we see him really
like interact with Muggles directly.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
The other times have been like.

Speaker 6 (40:05):
I don't understand the stupid money Hairy can help me.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
It's like he doesn't really have time for it. He
doesn't really care about it. He literally talks.

Speaker 6 (40:13):
To them like literally and James killed by a car crash,
nothing like that would have ever happened. Like car crushes
are deadly and horrifying. You don't understand how deadly they are.
They could have been killed in a car crash. Bud
technology is very dangerous. That two ton car my friend,
But that like.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
That doesn't get it. He doesn't understand the world.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
That outrage that he felt was had nothing to do
with the car crashes being terrible or not. It had
to do with the lie.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
It's a lie, yeah, which.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Is gryffindor like that's you're very much.

Speaker 6 (40:49):
It all has to do with the lie. I think
it literally is outraged that they could be killed by
anything Muggle oriented.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
See, No, I do.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
I think it's the lie, and I think it's it's
it's a loyalty to a friendship with Lily and James.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
But I know because the phrasing is off. If that's
the case.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
We see it now to your point, we see this
from a lot of wizards in general. We see it
from Molly Weasley. Molly Weasley is very wizard muggleist racist.
I trying, I was trying something.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Probably the more discriminatory is probably the more.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
But it's not really about race.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
Yeah, I just don't I really just don't understand. While
Haggard is coming at it like this, I reckon.

Speaker 6 (41:37):
I do think it's racism, but it's also like it's
not to be weird, but it's racism styled as like
a fun little uh exploration of the introduction of this world,
you know.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, a little bit huh.

Speaker 6 (41:53):
It's a weird situ because like these people, these aren't
these are just bad people.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
You have a group of kind of crap people that
Harry has to live with. So seeing them get their
come up and this is very satisfying.

Speaker 6 (42:05):
But the reason that they're getting their come up in
at least in the beginning, is not warranted.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
To ask how much you this of the Durs. Do
you think Haggard knows just how bad they are? I
think to come in there and kind of act that way,
that's kind of the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
I don't think he knows.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
I don't think he knows much.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I don't think he knows much because.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Like he he shows up in the first chapter, McGonagall
had been watching them all day, right, McGonagall saw what
they were like, and she was like, no, just shows
up hands Yeah, She's like, no, thank you. So unless
she was telling Haggard some things, because Haggrid just like.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Shows up hands over. Harry cries for a little bit
and then takes off right.

Speaker 9 (42:49):
So yet again he's crying over the little baby. He
really is a caretaker and a comforter for Harry right
from the go right, I.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Mean right away, He's like food, fire, kindness, information boost
and self confidence.

Speaker 6 (43:09):
Like here we go right talking to you and giving
you answers and clarity. Yes, I will say, yeah, there
is a weird connection I made during this reread for Hagrid,
and I'm wondering to myself, is like Hagrid kind of
like the Bellatrix of the Order of the Phoenix, because
the only reason he lashes out is because Dumbledore got insulted.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Belatricks does the same thing.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah, the only different The only difference is that I
respect Bellatrix.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Josh, I'm gonna come across the country, like.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
I'm not gonna lie. You were listening all the things
Hagrid has done. I almost jumped in and said and
also told everybody how to get past Fluffy, which also
causes a ton of albums.

Speaker 10 (44:00):
So oh, and mentioned Nicholas Famel even though they did
already figure that part out.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Never let something slip accidentally.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Come on not they could kill everyone I know?

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Do you know information that could kill everyone? You know?

Speaker 4 (44:24):
I wouldn't tell you if I did, Allison, So all
right back on track here there there is there. There
is a lot to be said. For one, how long
it takes Harry to have any dialogue in this chapter.
We're almost at the end of the second or third page.

(44:45):
Harry still hasn't talked. He has like some facial movements
and stuff, and in a perfect like literary point to
be made of the boy that's not allowed to ask questions,
the first thing that he says is who are you?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Well, it's I actually I love this, So it's he's
trying to say thank you, right like that's his initial
thought is I should say thank you for this cake,
And instead what comes out is who are you? Which
is so significant because pretty much throughout this whole chapter,
everything Harry says is a question, right, and we've just learned,

(45:23):
like two chapters ago, the first rule of living with
the Dursleys is not to ask questions.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
And this already, so already we see.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
This major significant change. He asks questions whatever he wants,
and someone answers him right openly and honestly of yes,
here's what happens, here's the deal, here's who I am, here's.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
What you know.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
And and that is such a major significant change for
Harry's life from the get.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
It's such an important part of development.

Speaker 6 (45:53):
Yeah too, he needs that in his life.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
It is, it's striking. And so as as we go,
we start to see little glimpse and hints. Right, even
before we know anything about this magical world, right, Haggard
makes a fire in seconds, Right, he starts pulling things

(46:16):
out of his pockets, like his Marry Poppins pockets.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Like what.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
It's it's so.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Whimsical, you know, and he I mean, he pulls out
like a kettle and a teapot and a tea set
and a stage and sausages and a cake.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
And then.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, like who is who has.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Pockets big enough to carry a frying pan in I'm sorry,
a frying pan and a kettle please.

Speaker 6 (46:43):
Like later on, I think the scriptures for his feet
is like the size of baby dolphins.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
What is what is this, gentleman? What has happened?

Speaker 6 (46:56):
Hear that he hasn't be this big?

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Okay, all right, there's there's a there's a lot we're
going to unpack here. The fire, the fire in general
he got he got a blazing fire going so quickly
it came up very quickly. Harry said that it felt
like he was dropped into a warm bath. Is this

(47:21):
a magical fire? We don't see I don't think that
we see the pink umbrella? Or is this Hagrid living
in a wooden house, living outside and just being able
to build a fire very efficiently, very quickly. I think

(47:41):
Harry says that he isn't able to see what Haggard does.
Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 5 (47:47):
I think when I first read it, the first thing
I came on mind was he used magic. That was
that was the first thing I came on mind, just
because of, like you said, the descriptures of how quickly
and how immediate, Because we know even with starting a
fire for to immediately get to where Harry's describing it,
it would have to have been there for at least
a little bit to build up to that. You started

(48:09):
with a spark and a little flame and then it grows.
I feel like in this case it's it's instantaneously done,
and so I would say it's magic.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Okay, I think it's magic too, because we know part
of the reason Dumbledore or not Dumbledore, part of the
reason Haggard wanted to come get Harry is he was
allowed to use some magic up until that point.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
So I definitely think he's.

Speaker 6 (48:33):
Like, yes, I think it was a mixture of both.
I think that it probably started up with a little magic.
But like, after knowing this character now for as long
as we have, I think definitely he just has skill
in survival. He would be able to to make whatever
kind of flame he needed out of the tiniest bit.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (48:52):
I probably just started up with a little spark and
that was it.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
I think that there's some of that. My issue is
that we're not told what's inside the fireplace when he
goes over there, so.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Crumpled bags of crisps Vernon's dignity as.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Well, that he that that man never had indignity, so
we we have some we have some lingers today. But yeah,
I I am. I first thought that this was all
just like uh like bushtraft, like you've lived outside, you

(49:28):
know how to do this, like you can get it.
But I don't think there's anything there. So I do
think that he used I think I do now think
that he used some magic for this. And he's just
so big no one could see him because we have.

Speaker 6 (49:43):
His pocket that he well ere.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
Well and that there could be there could be magical
products for a roaring fire, you know what I mean.
It could be something just as simple as he had
a he had a product that he could put down
and it in a magical fire immediately lift you know.
Now we see now granted they should have had that

(50:08):
at the at goblet of the fire at the World
Cup instead of doing matches turn a lot of fire.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
But well that was just Arthur Weasley.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Well that was just Arthur Weasley being like we must
do everything like muggles, right like that was just Arthur.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, this isn't an Arthur's after I
think that Arthur loves to take some shortcuts though, you know,
same same reason why the tent had the expanding spell
on the inside. That like when they walked in, they
had a muggle.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Tent a wizard. But he wants to cause play as
a Muggle.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
That's THINGO.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Arthur's Arthur's but this is Arthur Weasley. He really wants
to cause play as a Buggle.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
He already is cosplaying.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
He's fling LARPing.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
As one other question that I had, when Haggard introduces himself,
he says he is the keeper of the keys and
grounds at Hogwarts. I understand the grounds and I and
to a point, I understand the keys, but I personally
think that Filch would be known as the keeper of

(51:22):
the keys of Hogwarts, not the grounds. The Haggard definitely
keeper of the grounds. Is Haggard the keeper of the keys?
What does that mean, like the keeper of the gate
keys to get into like the castle grounds? I don't know.

Speaker 6 (51:39):
I mean from a literary sense, he's the keeper of
the keys for each new transition period. So he's kind
of like if we're thinking of it like as a
as a as a master terms for looking down at
the entire series. Okay, he's kind of the key to
the Wizarding world in that sense.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I'm I'm kind of I'm looking to see if there's
any I mean, and I think it. I do think
of it kind of as like a like a housekeeper almost,
you know, like in Downton Abbey, who has the big
ring of keys on her belt.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
It's oh my gosh, wow, why did I just blank? Hello?

Speaker 6 (52:14):
Is it the butler's the main butler guy?

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Or is it?

Speaker 2 (52:16):
No, it's missus Hughes.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Sorry, that's embarrassing that I forgot.

Speaker 6 (52:22):
I need to rewatch that entire series because it's a
blur to me.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
I need to see the new movie.

Speaker 6 (52:28):
Yes, I do. Anyway, that was also we should watch
it together.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Let's do right now, bye, guys.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Because Tracy's been begging me to watch it. Oh my god,
it's a party anyway.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
So she's the one with like the big ring of keys, right,
which would again go to that very more like Haggard
is almost the more maternal figure, which is fascinating. I
wonder if he has the keys to the gates.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
I think that makes sense because Filch would not have
the keys to the gates of Hogwarts. Yeah, Hagrid would,
and I think that that would.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
He Why couldn't Filch have the keys.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Well, Filch might have the keys to the castle like
the castle doors, but Hagrid might have the keys to
like the gates at the front. So Hagrid is kind
of like the first line of defense.

Speaker 6 (53:26):
Oh, that's true, that would make more sense.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
That's why he has to live outside.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
He doesn't live outside. He's a perfectly good hut.

Speaker 5 (53:41):
I don't remember Philch leaving the castle much either, though,
when you think about it.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
I don't true.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
He really doesn't really.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
Getting out much.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Well, he he just enjoys himself so much.

Speaker 6 (53:55):
What if Filch I know he's not, but what if
Filch was in fact another poultry guist who is like
a dueling poultry guised with Peeves, and that's why they
hate each other so much. And Philch just doesn't exist
outside of the castle. So that's why he just like
around the castle.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
That's so funny.

Speaker 6 (54:13):
I know it's not true, listeners, Okay, you don't have
to tell me.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
You know it's not You don't know anything.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Maybe he's magically tied to the castle by the same
spell that made his wife into Missus Norris. You guys,
remember that theory that Missus Norris has Philter's wife.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Still better than one loyalties.

Speaker 6 (54:39):
You guys want to move on before I before I
make more any more inflammatory.

Speaker 7 (54:44):
Comments speaking about crazy jokes, I do have to say
I laugh every time when when he's like he doesn't
know anything about anything, and Harry's like, that's going a
bit far.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I know my marks are back. I can do maths
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
It's such a British statement too.

Speaker 6 (55:02):
I think that's not so bad.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
It is just it's so funny that that Harry gets
like offended.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
He's like some stuff like I can do maths.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
To be fair, he was he doesn't know this, but
he just got told he knew nothing from a fifty
sixty year old man that has a seventh grade education.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Stop stop, so stop.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I'm not going to argue with you right here because
I know it will do nothing except forget me.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
You know, not to argue the education is wildly focused.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
He has. He has.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
He's not academic, doesn't mean he's not educated and smart jobs.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Experience counts for a lot. Yes, you are, you are correct.
I would just not tell someone that they know nothing
about anything.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
Nobody throwing stones, Okay, nobody should be throwing stones, and.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Who's past anythink about anything. Harry's just eleven and doesn't understand.
He's just a baby boy with baby brains. He only
knows math.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
Okay, okay, and then you go.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Excuse you wait, wait maths, maths.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
Know all the maths, Jason, how many maths is? Do
you know?

Speaker 5 (56:27):
One edition?

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Count?

Speaker 5 (56:30):
Half edition does tell and only single digits.

Speaker 6 (56:35):
I still need my fingers.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I did have a student asked me the other day
that was like, what do you think about math?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
And I was like, Nope, I don't think about it.

Speaker 6 (56:45):
You're like, girl, that's why I'm in design.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
That's why I didn't do this.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Oh like, I'm an English teacher for a reason.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I know, jeez, I don't think about math, and so
that I live in peace.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Anyway, Yeah, love it. Haggard is getting upset about about this,
so so normal Haggard. When when he starts to get upset,
he starts to say more and more outlantish things. Is
why did you get to the maybe nothing about anything?
Because not only is he he is upset that Harry
doesn't know anything, but but I think it goes deeper

(57:21):
than that because of the way that Lily and James died.
It is a it's it's disrespectful one to not have
Harry know that and get into get into the car crash,
you know whatever, all that kind of stuff too. But
I guess Haggard. Haggard says, did you never wonder where

(57:42):
your parents learned it all? And Harry's like, what are
you talking about? So like there are there's like layers
of this anger that's coming out of Haggard here.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Such it's such good tension leading to this line. Yeah right,
this ye're a wizard Harry line is there's such good
tension because Haggard's like being ambiguous, but Vernon and Petunia
are freaking out.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
What's happening? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
It is such a good in such a small compact
space because.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
It's not very long. Excellent.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
It's a masterclass and building tension.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (58:21):
I will say, am I crazy and remembering this? But
the line is reversed. It's Harry, you're a wizard. Let
me look because I thought I remember that this time
when I was like, oh that's kind of funny, we
swapped it because I was.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Expecting the opposite.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
It is.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
You're right, he says, I'll go boil your heads, both
of ye said Haggard.

Speaker 6 (58:39):
Harry you're a wizard. But we all called the movie
the movie because honestly sounds better.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
It kind of.

Speaker 6 (58:48):
Does, because you're rounded out, You rounded out with that
good name at the end, delicious.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
And you got to do it in Robbie Coltrane's voice
or your best approximation of Robbie.

Speaker 6 (59:01):
Yes, I can't not picture it, actually, yes I can.
I have a very distinct picture of the characters in
my brain. But I love Robbie Coltrane.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
So yeah, well I tell you, I mean with that line.
Something else that we get wrong on, like in the
fandom a lot too, is that we always talk about,
you know, I didn't get my letter on my eleventh birthday,
all those kinds of things, and like I always thought
that the letter just got sent on your eleventh birthday,
But here it is today, it's midnight on Harry's birthday. Yes,

(59:33):
he finally gets to read the letter, but letters have
been trying to make it too Harry for over a week.
So like this time it brought up like when are
the letters to Hogwarts kids going out? Like do you
have to be do you have to be eleven? Or
do you have to turn eleven? During the school It
seems like you already have to be eleven.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
I there's there is hold on, there is actually.

Speaker 4 (59:59):
I think we talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
There's an answer to this. She answered this. Yeah, yeah,
it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Quite sure because the author has has said different things
at different points that like people's letters come on their
birthdays or whatever. We do know though, that normally for
muggle borns, someone from the school comes to explain to

(01:00:27):
their parents.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Right, doesn't Dean say that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Like does Dean?

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
Does Dean say that in the in the series?

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Or was it was it was something we got from
Potter or more?

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Hold on, because I hold on, I'm trying to find the.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Exact well, the reason I have while you're looking, Alison,
I think what makes the most sense is if you
turn eleven prior to leaving for Hogwarts on September the first,
you would get a letter and then like you can go.
But like if your birthday's September second, and you would
get your you would get your letter the next summer

(01:01:05):
really before you would go. So like the reason the
reason that that really stuck out to me this time
around is because like my youngest kid's birthday is like
one day of like the schooling cut off, you know
what I mean? So, like she's gonna be the oldest
kid in her class forever because yeah she's in she's

(01:01:26):
in like K three preschool, K three, but she's four
because her birthday is two days later than it should
you whatever for all that kind of stuff. So like,
I think that there has to be a cutoff here,
and I think it has to be September first, because
that's when you're leaving. I think you have to be
eleven to get on the Hogwarts Express. M hm, That's
all I can filibuster. I am not Corey Bedbook.

Speaker 6 (01:01:48):
I never thought that hard about it, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
Say something like that, what do you what do you
think about about the letters?

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
I think so when I think that with kind of
Harry situation in terms of whenever he receives the letters,
that we see it for a long time leading up
to that. But I think you're right, Josh. I think
I would look at the same way as this is
when you get to go. But I also didn't know
if it was When is that when we usually see

(01:02:19):
kids start displaying like magic abilities? You know, we see
Harry going there, So when when does that happen? Is
it different for each each.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Yeah, that's different.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
It can happen like at birth, even because a lot
of people. That was what I was looking at right now,
is that Potter More published bit about the quill of
Acceptance in the Book of Admittance. At the precise moment
that a child first exhibits signs of magic, the quill,
which is believed to have been taken from an augury
fulats out of its inkpot and attempts to inscribe the

(01:02:51):
name of that child upon the pages of the book.
Those few have blah blah blah blah blah agree the
quill might be more might be judged more lenient than
the book. A mere whiff of magic suffices for the quill.
The book, however, will often snaps shut, refusing to be
written upon until it receives sufficiently dramatic evidence of magical ability.

Speaker 4 (01:03:12):
I think, I think that I think that that article
gives an example of Neville.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Yes, and then it talks about Neville.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
But I could have sworn there was something about when
Muggleborns get their letter, and I don't remember which piece
it's in.

Speaker 4 (01:03:34):
If if it were, I agree it's not canonical because
Hermione would have told us on the train that someone
from Hogwarts came and explained.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
But but we.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
But we we do know that like that comes up
at some point because it's McGonagall that came to talk
to Hermione's parents.

Speaker 6 (01:04:01):
I hate to be the one to bring this up,
but it was Dumbledore with Tom.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
So yeah, it does support your theory.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
Yeah, so, I mean, well, I guess while I all
sudden it's still looking that up. I think that regardless
of kind of what the answer is, I do think
that Hogwarts needs to do something or the Ministery needs
to do something for it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I'm consulting books. I'm consulting books because it says in the.

Speaker 6 (01:04:28):
Princess it's not extra canonical that they would no, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
It says it says in the Princess Tale.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Hold on, oh yeah, somebody, Yeah, somebody came. Somebody came
to Lily Lily's house.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
It's yes, yes, okay, And will it really come by owl?
Lily whispered normally said snape. But you're muggle borne, so
someone from the school will have to come and explain
to your parents there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Yeah, yes, yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 6 (01:04:54):
It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
But as as to when they arrive. That's a different
story because it does say in Harry's letter here that
they await a response by July thirty first, So I guess, man, yeah,
that that's been contradictory though when those arrive.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
So I mean the response back is on his eleventh birthday, Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Right, But I think that's just I think that's a
form letter that goes to everyone though, So that must
be for everyone, right because they need to know a
month and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
Advance it is about to show up. Yeah, okay, so well,
but and you could still if all the letters are
going out in July, like let's say, yeah, okay, so
this is July thirty first. Let's say the letters have
been coming out for at least a week to try
to get to Harry. Like we know that we go
through a through a weekend and we're in this is Monday. Now,

(01:05:54):
this is Monday the thirty This is Tuesday the thirty first,
because Dudley says that it's Monday because the Great Humberto
is on the TV. That was Monday the day before.
So now this is Tuesday of the thirty first. We've
gone through Sunday, so the letters have at least been
trying to get to Harry for four days. Let's say,

(01:06:20):
I believe what makes the most sense is that Hogwarts
is sending every letter to prospective students on the same day,
needing a response by the thirty first. But it is
for any any potential student that will turn eleven prior
to September first.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Yes, because we know Hermione's birthday is September nineteenth, and
so she turns twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Yeah week in the first year.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
Yeah, absolutely, but she got but she got her letter
this summer not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
I believe so because there is a little bit of
we're not quite sure what's happening. Because in some of
the backstories for other characters, the author is written it
mentions when they got their letter on their birthday, like
in mcgonagall's it says when she got her birthday on
her letter on her birthday and her birthdays in October.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
So I don't think I just don't think that's true.
I think that that is all just I think that's
messed up. I think that this makes the most sense
for how a how a regulatory educational system would work.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
It's weird. It's weird.

Speaker 6 (01:07:36):
It's like a lot of the extra canonical material tends
to muddy the waters a little bit. It's weird about that.
It might be a reason why to stick to the
Seven books.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Wow, well, I think, I think I think sometimes it's
some it's it's because it's usually little details like yes, right,
that don't have tons of bear only us crazy, all right,
And so.

Speaker 6 (01:08:01):
It probably was like full for an analysis book.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
I guess it is for the crazy people.

Speaker 6 (01:08:06):
But it's like for an analysis book, that stuff will
mess you up right quick, yes, like you have to lie,
you have to mark the cutoff at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I always think the basic information was probably there, but
there are some things, little things like that that probably
because that extra information was written twenty years after it, right,
that like some of those small details slipped through. But anyway,
that's a totally different story, and.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
I'm yeah, I like this now. Granted, the reason that
Harry just got a letter and not someone coming is
because Harry was already supposed to know about all this there,
supposed to tell him who he is, what's gonna happen,
all this kind of stuff, because that's what Dumbledore wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Yeah, And then things get blocked and so Hagrid gets
sent out, which which I do find is interesting. Do
you think think Hagrid would have been the one anyway,
or he would have volunteered to come get Harry anyway?
Or was it did this just happen because they realized
that Harry wasn't getting his letters?

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
This only happened because Harry wasn't getting his letters.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
I think it was the letters, but that's my instinct.

Speaker 6 (01:09:15):
I haven't really thought too much about that, honestly, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Or if even if Harry had gotten a letter and
didn't send a response back, I think that they would
have come this What really annoys me?

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Is this a Harry special?

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Well?

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
I think it has to be, because it's it is.
It is an odd circumstance. It is a muggle born.
This is the same situation as a muggle born, except
he was supposed to be told yeah. Well.

Speaker 6 (01:09:43):
And also there's a situation where like it seems as
though I've started kind of now that I've started programming applications,
I've started to think of magic like programming.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
The magic did not sense that.

Speaker 6 (01:09:55):
He saw the letter, and so it continues to send
letters at an increasing pace. And when he continues to
not do that, and then his location starts to change.
That's when other things start to fire off, so like
you're if then statements are going wild at this point,
So it goes all the way down to like you
need to send someone out because this program will no

(01:10:17):
longer cover this well.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
But we do know Dumbledore specifically asked Haggard to go,
so I do think this is definitely just Haggard or
Harry's special And so as soon as Dumbledore saw this
was going wrong, he was like, all right, somebody needs
to actually go out there and like check on this situation.

Speaker 5 (01:10:35):
So, Grace, I want to ask on a follow up
on what you said there, because I thought that was
really interesting. So do you think that if he opens
the letter, reads it, you know, the Dursleys, do they
take it from him, They're like, you're not going Do
you think that nothing happens until he doesn't show up
to school or do you think something even happens.

Speaker 6 (01:10:52):
It says to send a response for like what you
what what you prefer or like what your your decision is?
So I suppose that it would depend. I suppose at
that point, if we're gonna put it into programming language,
you have you have clicked on the button the modules
that your application is now open. It cannot be closed

(01:11:14):
until you make a decision, and then you just can't
be closed in that situation, So you make the decision,
the decisions recorded, and then that's when Dumbledo would step
in and be like, why the hell does this say?

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
No? Sorry?

Speaker 5 (01:11:27):
What is it hagrid? Then thatspect that is whenever he
sends the owl, is that the response is hagrid?

Speaker 6 (01:11:34):
Then oh yeah, Haggard was said he was the one
sending it, right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:38):
So technically wasn't Harry there was sending well, because he.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Sends I don't know if that's technically Harry's response though,
I mean, I guess it kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Is because.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
He did, But he's because he sends the letter to
Dumbledore and he says I've gotten Harry, which very British.
So speaking of that letter, I do have a question,
and I so I read the UK editions. Usually Haggard

(01:12:10):
addresses his letter to mister Dumbledore and not Professor Dumbledore,
which is usually what he calls him, and that caught
my eye this time. But I just went and looked
in my parents' American like first edition American edition, and
it does say Professor Dumbledore.

Speaker 6 (01:12:30):
Mine says mister, and I've got American editions. Is it
the early ones or is it likely ones? This is
the one from back when I was a kid, so yeah,
in the stagnant waters of my youth, that is, that
is what this is from.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
All the update, all the updated American ones I have, say, professor.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Yeah, this is from nineteen to ninety eight.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Maybe mine's from Elier.

Speaker 6 (01:12:52):
Oh me gude, Oh my god, maybe I'm special guides,
no doubt about that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
Sweety well, because well the.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
First American adition was nineteen ninety eight. Well do you
have that on you?

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
Can?

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
You look?

Speaker 6 (01:13:08):
Yeah, I'm curious.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Let me go into my room, let me get it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
I'll be right back, okay, because yeah, because my my
UK addition, says mister Dumbledore. But this nineteen ninety eight addition,
American addition, says professor, Like, yeah, this is like the
old school hardcore. And then but this one, let's see

(01:13:33):
which this addition is from two thousand and one my
UK edition.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
Does anybody else get called mister like, there's no like
mister Flintwick, there's no mister Fudge. I mean it's all I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Mean, mister Pilch.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Yeah, it's usually everyone who's not a professor.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
If you don't have another time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Mister Hagrid does come up a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
This is fascinating. I want to know what happened here
because this, this UK edition is technically after this American edition.

Speaker 6 (01:14:08):
Oh wait, no, mine does say professor. You guys, I'm
not special.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Is a UK versus US thing? Weird weird?

Speaker 6 (01:14:19):
I lied everybody I was special.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
Oh you caught me.

Speaker 6 (01:14:32):
I'm not like other copyings of the Listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
You'll have to let us know us UK edition if
there's a difference in there too, because that's fascinating to me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
And I don't know know what's happening.

Speaker 6 (01:14:50):
So probably probably something that happened that was wrong, honestly.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
So so what what?

Speaker 6 (01:14:58):
What?

Speaker 4 (01:14:59):
Also really, obviously Harry's laughs is changing, but also how
he's going to interact with his aunt and uncle and
Dudley for the rest of his life has now changed.
You know, he has he has new information. He has
now he has proof that like, oh you all aren't
just terrible, You're like extra terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
Yeah, and I love I love that you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Start to see this change in Harry, right, He started
to ask questions, he gets answers, and now all of
a sudden, he has an ability to release stand up
to his aunt and uncle for the first time.

Speaker 4 (01:15:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
He has a new kind of self confidence, a new
kind of power, and that gives him that ability, and
we see that ability grow throughout the rest of the books.
Right before this, Harry like really doesn't feel like he
can ever say anything against them, right, he just obeys
and keeps his head down and tries not to get

(01:15:55):
into trouble.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
But now all of a sudden, he's like, try to
stay out the way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Yeah, And now he's like, what the heck, man, like,
why did you lie to me? Right directly confronts them.

Speaker 6 (01:16:07):
It's a it's a slow transition from to having like
because you see it throughout the summers that he spends
there until the very last one where he has almost
nothing to say to them, which is yeah, so telling,
but yeah, it's it's really it's it's great to see
him grow as a person. It doesn't have to put
up with this kind of nonsense.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Yeah, And and having that different sense of self right
also gives him this power, which I think is fast.

Speaker 6 (01:16:33):
And also to show how, oh my god, I hate
that there is so much.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
Can we talk about this? Can we talk about how much?
Because I hate Patuita.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Yeah, Petunia explodes, right, and like this pent up ranting,
which was fascinating to read this time, because I think
it takes a little bit of a different flavor after
reading The Prince's Tale and after reading that background that

(01:17:06):
the author published about Petunia and Lily and Vernon and
that whole part of their life and so much I mean,
I mean, she's when you first read it, it's almost
the very like Wicked Stepmother trope coming out here. But
when you read it with all that background, you really

(01:17:27):
do kind of see that jealousy and anger and bitterness
that was festering for so long and never got resolved, right,
And it will never be able to be resolved because
Lily's dead here, right, Which doesn't excuse things because she's
still awful, right, But it's fascinating to see how that

(01:17:48):
gets more complex suddenly by the end of the series.

Speaker 6 (01:17:54):
I cannot stress how important it is to come at
understanding every individual with a sense of empathy, and that
going through the books in this certain way helps you
to foster that empathy for every character and piece apart
their background. But if I see Petunia on the street,
it's she gonna catch these hands on sight she better lines.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
I have to let you know that I scrolled down
and caught sight of that comment a while ago, up laughing.

Speaker 6 (01:18:25):
I I am as as someone. I love my sister
very dearly, but I try to imagine things from characters
perspectives and how they must have been thinking. And like,
my sister is awesome, Like she she's extremely talented.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
She's like the best writer that I know.

Speaker 6 (01:18:46):
She's incredible, But I try to imagine like what she
must think, Like how are it like if you get
this jealous of someone who's this close to you? Like
how how does how do you compute this way?

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
I can I can imagine how that.

Speaker 6 (01:18:59):
My sour relationship and make it almost impossible to connect
to someone.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
That's tragic, but it's happened. I cannot imagine putting this
on a baby. Like you have a.

Speaker 6 (01:19:10):
Fully thinking, fully feeling mind. You've grown up in a
good household where like you understand the concept of how
family works, and then you just abuse like physically, mentally, emotionally,
god even probably spiritually, Like I don't even know what's
going on in this household. But you've put this on
a baby that was handed to you, And like, I've

(01:19:33):
been listening to it like a few different Harry Potter podcasts,
and one of the ones is Lori Kim's hpfter twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
She references between and she says, the last.

Speaker 6 (01:19:41):
Thing that you want when you're taking care of a
one year old is to be handed another one year old.
And I understand now from that perspective, how that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Can be quite difficult. But if I had been in
that position taking care of my one year old and
someone said, someone who you once loved dearly just passed,
and I know that's horrifying, but here's their child, my
first instinct would wouldn't be I hate this child. I
would like to say, I would like to think.

Speaker 6 (01:20:09):
I don't know, because thankfully I've never been in that position,
but I would like to think that I have a
bit more grace than putting so much anger on a baby.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
But no, I think, but you do think a.

Speaker 6 (01:20:20):
Lot of she's horrendous, Like I, yeah, I've written a
book about the most the greatest antagonist of this series,
and I cannot stand Petunia.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
I think a lot of it comes from she's still
she's not right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
She's not right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
But I think because their break happened when they were
so young, and it happened because Julien was magical and Petunia.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Was not right and.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Magical, yes, so badly.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Yes, And I think that break, just that gap just
got wider and wider. And then all of a sudden,
here is her sister who she hasn't spoken to in years,
who was the special golden child with this festering bitterness
within her for twenty years, but fifteen twenty years, right,
and then all of a sudden, it's here's her child,

(01:21:17):
and he's like her, right, he's special.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Too, he has this thing you wanted as a child too.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
And she's not right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
But I also think she's also been twisted by Vernon
as well well.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
She specifically probably goes after Vernon, and like is drawn to.

Speaker 6 (01:21:36):
Vernon, he can reflect her horrible, rancid, stagnant, disgusting nature.
Because they're bad people. Well, well I want to hit
them so bad.

Speaker 4 (01:21:48):
Yeah, well but okay, and so now look there there
there are parts of this that Petunia is reliving from
her own childhood of you know, the swing set scene
where Lily goes and she like floats through the air
and you does all that kind of stuff, and she
I think she makes things like levitate and whatever before

(01:22:11):
she's ever at Hogwarts. And so when you get the
end information and then you look at Petunia seeing Harry
grow up, so Grace, all those things that you said
are correct. You have a one year old. Now you
have another one year old that you're raising, and all

(01:22:32):
of the things that you hated about your sister, now
whenever this kid gets his haircut, it just grows back immediately.
Whenever he is trying to get away from bullies, he
ends up on top of a flagpole or on top
of the school or whatever. And you know why. No
one else knows why, but you know why because you

(01:22:53):
saw your sister do all those same things and you
were never going to be able to do it. So
it's really cool. It's really like, it's really cool to
make those connections whenever you're done with the series. But
it really sucks.

Speaker 5 (01:23:13):
I think, I think I remember when I first read it,
I was always thinking that Vernon was very much the
driving force of the hatred towards Harry. Like even like
reading in the first parts here it seemed like it
was always Vernon that was the most brash. But when
you actually go back and you start reading some of
this stuff, Petunia has just all these little comments shut up,
like get up, get out of here, you know, do
a lot of these different things. And when you think

(01:23:33):
about that standpoint, what must she have told Vernon to
where he has now all this anger and hate towards
Harry as well? Because it had to have been something
like the way that she would describe it to him
and like him act the way that he acts.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
And that's and that's why this piece about Vernon and
Petunia I found so fascinating. I And sorry, I just
went back to revisit it. And Okay, so it talks
about how they met and why and blah blah blah,
their one interaction with Lily and James, which was like
insane and so prior to Harry's arrival, Patuny had become,

(01:24:09):
if anything, the more determined of the Dursleys in suppressing
all talk about her sister. Petunia had some latent feelings
of guilt about the way she had cut Lily, whom
she knew in her secret heart had always loved her
out of her life. But these were buried under considerable
jealousy and bitterness. Petunia had also buried deep inside her
and never confessed to Vernon her long ago hope that
she too would show signs of magic and be spirited

(01:24:30):
off to Hogwarts. Reading the shocking contents of Dumbledore's letter, however,
which told her how bravely Lily had died, she felt
she had no choice but to take Harry in and
raise him alongside her own cherish son, Dudley. She did
it grudgingly, and spent the rest of Harry's childhood punishing
him for her own choice. Uncle Vernon's dislike of Harry stems,
in part, like several escapes, from Harry's close resemblance to

(01:24:52):
the father they both disliked. Yeah, there lies to Harry
on the subject of how his parents had died were
based largely on their own fears.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
A dark wizard as powerful as Lord.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Voldemore frightened them too much to contemplate, and like every
subject they found disturbing or distasteful, they pushed it to
the back of their minds and maintained the died in
a car crash story so consistently that they almost managed
to persuade themselves it was true.

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
Yeah, I actually, I mean, there's no reason that Vernon,
before they all got before him and Petunia got together,
he didn't know that the Wizarding World existed, So like
they always talk about your sister's lot, all those kinds
of things. I don't now, Alice, And maybe in what
you just read there is a section about like when

(01:25:35):
Petunia told Vernon about Lily.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
There is, actually there is.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
She confessed the truth during a tear stained date in
Vernon's dark car, as they sat overlooking the chip shop
where Vernon had just bought them a post cinema snack. Vernon,
as Petunia had expected, was deeply shocked. However, he told
Patuni solemnly that he would never hold it against her
that she had a freak for a sister, and Petunia
threw herself upon him and said violent gratitude that he
dropped his battered sausage.

Speaker 6 (01:26:04):
Honestly, I'll be real, this is the only good thing
I'll say about them. That sounds like a really good
date to go out to see a movie and then
get fish and chips afterwards. Absolutely, I would say that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
This is also hilarious. Here we go the next paragraph.
The first meeting between Lily, her boyfriend James Potter, and
the engaged couple went badly, and the relationship no stuff
from there. James was amused by Vernon and made the
mistake of showing it. Vernon tried to patronize James, asking
what car he drove. James described his racing broom. Vernon

(01:26:36):
supposed out loud that wizards had to live on unemployment benefits.
James explained about Gringotts and the fortune his parents had
saved there in solid gold. Vernon could not tell whether
he was being made fun of or not, and grew angry.
The evening ended with Vernon and Petunia storming out of
the restaurant, while Lily burst into tears and James, a
little ashamed of himself, promised to make things up with

(01:26:56):
Vernon at the earliest opportunity. This never happened. Petunia didn't
want Lily as a bridesmaid. Lily was hurt virtin things right.
Vernon said some terrible things about James at the reception
in James's hearing, and she and Petunia Vernon chose not

(01:27:18):
to attend Lily and James's wedding. The very first last
piece of correspondence she received from Lillian James was the
announcement of Harry's birth, and after one contemptuous look, Petunia
threw it in the bin.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
Do you do you think that Petunia's hatred isn't because
of jealousy. It has to do with Lily's complete disregard
for using magic outside of school, So.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Like, I don't flaunting it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
You all took that way too far. That's just my
annoyance with the trace.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
Did she though? Again, that's one of those things of
did she actually do this? I feel like that got
brought up at some.

Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
Point, Yeah, Petunia. During Petunia's rant in this chapter, she says,
coming home every summer with pockets full of frog spawn,
turning teacups into toadstools or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
Yeah, sorry, I meant, I meant, do you think that? Actually?

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
I feel like I have had a had a conversation,
seen a conversation, seen some analysis where it's like, there's
no way Lily could have actually been doing that, because
it's against the trace. I have been in this fandom
too long, and I can't think I remember that same
conversation that might have been on Alohama, that was on
the show might have been God.

Speaker 4 (01:28:38):
So that's she couldn't she shouldn't have been able to,
but she is. So that's my annoyance with the trae.
I don't think the trace existed in book one.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
I don't think it did either. I don't think that
was a concept.

Speaker 4 (01:28:49):
That was brought up. But maybe maybe she was just
so like interested in the law that that's why Petunia
hates Lily. Just too many ministry officials coming to their
house threatening to expel her.

Speaker 6 (01:29:04):
Petunia hates Lily, Grace hates Petunia. It all, it all
goes around. Really, maybe Lily hates Grace. That's how this happens.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Yes, okay, so well, speaking of other horrific things, how
horrific this is?

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Like no, like for real, it's but this is.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
How Harry learns his parents were murder Is that his
aunt is just like she got herself blown up?

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Like I'm sorry, back up?

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
What like this is how you tell the eleven year
old whose parents were.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
Killed and.

Speaker 4 (01:29:41):
Everybody just gets blown up.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Don't worry, I'm gonna get to pedigree later.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:29:55):
In this chapter? Yes, oh wow, could you have a question?
But no, like this is horrible, okay, like he's.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Eleven, and this is how he finds his parents are murdered.

Speaker 6 (01:30:06):
Okay, well, it has not been great up until this
point for Harry. If anything, it might be kind of
like a relief to know the truth.

Speaker 4 (01:30:12):
Well, no, like the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
I'm is probably fine, but to find it out in
that way.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
Okay, I didn't think.

Speaker 6 (01:30:18):
Okay, go ahead, Well.

Speaker 4 (01:30:19):
Just because it's my favorite thing to do. Dumbledore is
my favorite character in the series. I am consistently mad disappointed.
Should Dumbledore have intervened before I get into everything? Should
Dumbledore have have intervened in Harry's life prior to coming

(01:30:42):
to Hogwarts, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
And Minerva McGonagall told him not to, and he still didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:30:47):
Minerva told him not to or too.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
I have opinions on this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
No, McGonagall tells him in the first character.

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
She's like, you cannot leave him with these people, right,
She's like, I've watch them all theme, you cannot do this.

Speaker 4 (01:31:03):
Okay, but we know why Dumbledore had to, Like, yes,
I've really I don't think that Dumbledore would have kept
Harry there if not for the blood protection from Lily
and Petunia. I think that's the only reason that Dumbledore
actually goes through with it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
We hear some boys, we do disagree?

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Am going to disagree?

Speaker 4 (01:31:26):
Well, I'm going to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Good bye, Josh, Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
Your our friend now.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
Have him? So all right, all right, let.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
Me disagree because I think I think Dumbledore is projecting, oh,
this will like he's projecting what he wanted to happen
with his great family tragedy that didn't happen. He's like,
obviously the right thing to do would be when she
finds out about this great tragedy, she'll take Harry in

(01:32:02):
and it'll be what it'll be the reconciliation that Aberforth
and I should.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Have gotten but we never did.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Okay, I unfortunately Dumbledore can be extremely naive about what
people actually do.

Speaker 4 (01:32:14):
But we know that there is a blood protection though, like, no,
that's part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:20):
But he also specifically and he says that to Petunia
and Vernon in Halfwood Prince. He says, I asked you
to raise him as a son, and you have not
done that, and like he sounds terrifying, right, And so.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
I think he thought.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
It would be a healing moment in that rift between
Lily and Petunia, because I think that's what he wanted,
between himself and Aberforth after Ariana was killed and it
never happened, so he was hoping it would happen with
someone else and trying to project and push his own
thoughts on someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
Caused Jason, what do you think, Jason?

Speaker 5 (01:33:00):
Yeah, so I definitely understand the fact that the blood
pack that had to have him there, But there has
been multiple times, if I remember correctly, that throughout the book,
Dumbledore wants her to have this almost a sense of
normality as a student, where it's, hey, I'm not going
to tell him right now, because I want him to
experience this and be a part of this. And maybe

(01:33:20):
part of that experience was the fact of going back
home and going home for the summer and doing all
these different things is what he would believe a normal
student would do. And so I said, there's probably a
piece of that that has to be taken into account too,
of the fact of Dumbledore wanted this very kind of
normal life from him, in the sense that he does Josh,

(01:33:43):
like you said, keeps everything from him and doesn't explain
anything to him, which we can argue doesn't help him
at all, and in fact, you could even argue that
it hurts him, but I think that there's a driving
factor behind that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
I agree with all those things, But we have missus
fig that understands how he's being raised, how he's being treated.
We have, we have, we have all of we have
all of the Ministry and all of Dumbledore that could

(01:34:17):
just like stop him one day of just just to
check it out like that. That's what I'm more upset about.
I'm not upset about him being left with them. I'm
not up I'm upset with the with the howler they
get sent well not maybe it is a howler, they
get sent to Petunia wherever she's trying to kick him out,
and Dumbledore saying, remember.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
Yes, it is a howler as a howler in order.

Speaker 4 (01:34:40):
Okay, so you can do that, remember my last You
can do that. You can do that, Dumbledore in book five,
But you can't do it when the boy is five.
I think that Petunia needs to be reminded somewhere between
drop off with a letter that Dumbledore didn't even have
the stones go and like have the conversation left him

(01:35:02):
with a letter that put that that Dumbledore knows that
Petunia knows who he is. It is not a strange person.
Stopping on your front door with a baby. It is
someone that has wrote that you have wrote a letter
to that knows why your sister died, so you have that.

(01:35:24):
That's number one. That's the thing that I'm upset with
Dumbledore about not actually explaining it through himself and then
not having any contact with him until right now.

Speaker 6 (01:35:37):
A man, I think that there's definitely grounds on which
to say those kind of things. I think it's one
of those very distinct reminders of how human these this
this particular character is, and like Lakey says later on
in the books, being an individual that has so much
power and control over the characters.

Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
That we meet.

Speaker 6 (01:35:59):
His uh, his his mistakes are correspondingly huger, so when
he does make a mistake, the repercussions sort of spider
out from there. I will say, I think that Alis,
and I agree with you. I think that, like internally,
I don't even know if it's conscious on his part,
but like instantly, his assumption is that he would be

(01:36:20):
better with family because he wishes he himself could be
with his family, because his family is so broken at
this point, He's so estranged from his brother and everyone
else has been lost and love has even though he
believes in it and believes in the power of it,
it's only it's hurt him so greatly, but he knows
that this familial love might be something that could save Harry.
I will also draw on the fact that when it

(01:36:41):
comes to adoption, usually what ends up happening when a
child has lost their parents is that they go to
the next of kin and family, or at least they
try to look for that, because that's seen as one
of the best ways of keeping a child within the
circle of their family, within some sort of normalcy and

(01:37:03):
the like. They try not to house these children as
you would see tom in an orphanage. They're like a
lot of a lot of institutions are trying to move
away from that kind of situation. That's why foster care
is very popular. That's why we try to get these
kids housed in homes or they can get very specific care.
So I feel like the assumption that he should be

(01:37:24):
with the next of kin and family isn't a strange one,
and the warning is haunting that like the fact that
they're they're very very normal. But also I don't think
that he can make a decision based off of one
Day's observations correct, even from a trusted individual. This is
the next of kin family. I do think there's definitely

(01:37:46):
something to be said on having someone check in very
often on them, because like Harry isn't a normal baby,
and these aren't normal circumstances, and he knows that Tom
is still out there, like something could happen to this baby.
He doesn't know how and he doesn't know what, but
something could still happen.

Speaker 4 (01:38:04):
So so the the thing that I pushed back on
that is that I think that Dumbledore does believe that
as long as Harry is at Petunia's house, Tom is
not a threat.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
So there's that, But these followers are still out there.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
That's the other I agreed, agreed, and and that, and
that's Voldemorre.

Speaker 6 (01:38:22):
We're a huge threat following that, following the attack.

Speaker 4 (01:38:25):
That's Voltimore's biggest downfall is that he doesn't trust his followers.
But once Baltimore's out of the picture, the death.

Speaker 6 (01:38:32):
Got a lot of doub Yeah, well, I wouldn't say
it's his biggest I.

Speaker 4 (01:38:37):
Think that I think that he would have been successful
had he trusted his people in doing what he wanted
to do anyway, But so like that takes care of that.
But it's not even about having someone check in on him.
He has someone every day that's right there, missus fig
is right there and and has contact with Dumbledore. They

(01:39:00):
are in contact throughout m So it is you know, Grace,
you said that, you know, we have to remember the
Dumbledore as a human, all these things and and and
but yeah, I think Dumbledore doesn't want to be human,
and so he puts away all of these thoughts that

(01:39:22):
that would make him human, and like any of us
would do these things that that that I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Which is fascinating because in Order of the Phoenix, he
specifically tells Harry, your pain is what makes you human.

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
So one must assume that he feels this pain quite often.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
Yes, Yeah, Here's the interesting thing is I think you
were talking about how Dumbledore is brilliant, and he is brilliant.
He's brilliant, he has a brilliant intelligence, he's a brilliant tactician.
I think he's stunted in emotional intelligence.

Speaker 6 (01:39:52):
You think when his heart was broken kind.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
Yeah, yeah, and when his family was broken apart, right,
even earlier than that, when.

Speaker 6 (01:40:02):
His mother died.

Speaker 3 (01:40:04):
Yeah, well, his mother.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
Even before that, though, when Ariana was attacked, his entire
family was ripped apart. His father went to prison, his
little sister is now being hidden. His mother, I'm sure
changed dramatically because she was trying to keep Ariana hidden.
I think it's something that Dumbledore never quite understands, is

(01:40:30):
emotional intelligence and to some degree, interpersonal relationships with other people.

Speaker 6 (01:40:35):
Yeah, because it wasn't one of the quotes from the
book from Aberforth, like their mother Kendra taught them that
secrets should be kept up by the by the like
by your heart.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
Since we learned secrets and lies that our mother's.

Speaker 6 (01:40:50):
Yeah, thank you, that's the line. Yeah, rough, what a family. Damn,
it's no wonder he and Tom are so similar. We'll
get into that another episode, yes now.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
But for now, Haggard is telling Harry his whole backs.

Speaker 6 (01:41:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:41:09):
Well, and that's the thing, like, especially here, I think
Haggard is a terrible person to ever tell a secret ever.
But for Harry in this situation, Haggard is the perfect
messenger because he doesn't know what not to say. He's
just gonna say anything that comes to his mind as

(01:41:29):
long as it doesn't get personal. On Haggard himself, which okay.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
Also gets very empathetic with it too.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Yeah, he doesn't even really tell Harry anything that's not
really public knowledge, right, Like, all Haggard really knows is
what's public knowledge.

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
He does have a little bit of.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
Insight because he personally knew James and Lily, but other
than that, all the rest of this is just.

Speaker 2 (01:41:51):
What everybody knows.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
Yeah, right, I mean even at the end when he's like,
nobody knows what happened to him. Some people think he died,
some people think but some of us I think he's
still out there biding his time.

Speaker 4 (01:42:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:42:03):
Yeah, it all it's all just public knowledge.

Speaker 6 (01:42:05):
What do you think, Jason, do you think Haggard was
the right person to be telling this entire story because
it's a little rough around the edges, But I personally
feel like he did a pretty bang up job with
it as much as it could.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
Was there a better person for it?

Speaker 5 (01:42:18):
I think at the time, you're gonna want a basic
just almost like quick and dirty, this is what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
We don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:42:26):
We don't know why he came after you as well,
because he says that he says, and then the strange
thing is he then goes and tries to kill you
as well. In the midst of that then obviously what
Josh said, he's destroyed or something along those lines. So
even at that point Haggard doesn't understand that Dumbledore probably
has has that understanding or at least an idea of
what why he tried to kill Harry. But from that

(01:42:49):
point it's for me, I think Haggard is a perfect
one because it's just very basic, because that's kind of Haggard.
He's basic. He's just gonna be straightforward and he's not
going to be really in depth about anything that he taughtalk.

Speaker 6 (01:43:00):
About, and he kind of hits the nail on the
head for a lot of it too.

Speaker 4 (01:43:04):
Yeah, yeah, well, I think I think that Haggard gives
like these little details or like this, at least it's
like empathy in the story that makes Harry one believe
him more possibly and also just like I'm going to
walk you through what happened to the best of my ability,

(01:43:25):
and also lets you know that you come from like
the greatest people I've ever known.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
It's also from a from a writing craft perspective, is
a fascinating thing because like Jason, like you said, it
really is the quick, dirty basic version, right, and this
is kind of where the great mystery of the whole
series starts, Yes, right, I mean thinking about how many
questions are unanswered.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
At this point from this.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
Story and how much will get answered as we keep
going is fascinated because this really seems like this is
the story, this would happened.

Speaker 2 (01:44:04):
But as we start peeling.

Speaker 1 (01:44:05):
Apart the layers, this like becomes the whole thing, right
of the whole series is why did Baltimore go after Harry?

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
And it's fascinating.

Speaker 5 (01:44:20):
Yeah, it really makes you think about about it. But
going back to some of the quick and dirty stuff,
it kind of reminds me of like we said that
with the writing, it says, did Foltimore want to persuade them?
Did he want to just get him out of the way?
Don't know that he killed him, and so it's just yeah,
it's just that, don't know why, just he killed him

(01:44:42):
and then he turned to you and that's another weird.

Speaker 4 (01:44:44):
Thing, but we know that later like he killed James
just to kill James, he didn't want to kill Lily,
like he was going to save Lily for a snake,
but he wasn't going.

Speaker 3 (01:44:54):
To he offered her to step aside thrice.

Speaker 4 (01:44:59):
Yeah, that's three, which is.

Speaker 6 (01:45:01):
More than he's done for anyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
Fascinating because later on he says right in Deathly House,
he says, every drop of pure blood spilt is a waste.
And yet James, who was very much a pure blood
descended from the peverils right kills without a thought. Yet
is going to offer Lily the muggle born her life.

Speaker 6 (01:45:26):
I guess that's how important Severus is at this point too.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
I hate him.

Speaker 6 (01:45:30):
I'm sorry, but they don't know any of this, so
this is very much in the future. He presents these
mysteries so beautifully, like why didn't why was it you?
Why was he there? All these things that are going
to be revealed later on but are not important right now.

Speaker 3 (01:45:46):
So perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:45:48):
Yeah, I do think this line caught my attention rereading
this is Haggard says, suppose the mystery is why you
know who never tried to get them on his side?

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
And I was like, oh yeah, And I.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
Was like, I was trying to think of options, and
what I came up with was was it because he
already had pedigrew on his side and so he didn't
need them?

Speaker 4 (01:46:11):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
Because he already knew the prophecy? Is it because of Snape?

Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:46:17):
Because Snape joined up quick? So had Snape already told
him this? Or he could sense this from Snape? And
so that's why he wasn't like, well, here's going after
James and or trying to persuade them. Is it because
he just knew they would never join him? That's my
question is why did Baltimore never try and persuade James

(01:46:40):
and Lily?

Speaker 4 (01:46:41):
Did Baltimore ever tried to persuade any driffindor?

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
Well, he got Pedigrew, but that's.

Speaker 4 (01:46:46):
Giving him, that's not persuading him. Pedigrew offered information for protection.
I don't think I.

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
Did not know how that exchange came to pass.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
I don't try to don't know how that happened.

Speaker 4 (01:46:59):
I don't I don't believe. I don't believe that the
I don't believe that we have any reason to believe that.
I think that the way that Sirius and Lupin talk
about Pettigrew in book three is that Pettigrew thought the
Todds were turning and he was looking for protection, and
he found it in Baltimore, and that was the one
thing that he could offer with information.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
Do we know that he never approached serious?

Speaker 6 (01:47:24):
This is this is the very interesting thing about that era,
the Marauder story, especially during the that that first Wizarding
World is so nebulous that I think if there's a
possibility for any of these things, and I think we
could make the argument that perhaps Pettigrew was persuaded. There's

(01:47:46):
a mixture of fear and persuasion happening at the same time.
Because life is never quite so neat as one or
the other. I think that perhaps it was a mixture
of both at once. And I don't I person only
having like knowing these characters as well as we do
at this point, my instinct is that he probably didn't

(01:48:10):
try to sway James or Lily, but there's nothing in
the text that disproves it, because they're both canonically like
really good at magic.

Speaker 3 (01:48:20):
So perhaps he did at one point, but it's really
hard to say.

Speaker 6 (01:48:25):
Maybe he did go after Gryffindors and that he just
hasn't had as much success. He remember, he's pulling from
a pool of Hogwarts alumni, so I think that it
would have been certain groups that are attracted to him
in the same way that there are certain groups that
are attracted to cult mindsets where it's very simple answers
for life's hardest questions and a very charismatic leader to

(01:48:45):
give those answers as well.

Speaker 2 (01:48:47):
And by that point there were people lining up to
join him.

Speaker 6 (01:48:51):
Right, yes, Lily says, I will say he's winning both
the first and the second wars.

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
Yeah, well no, in this first four, Lily tells Snape, right,
she she calls him out and she says, you know,
all your little death eater friends and.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
Yeah, she's like, you're not even trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
Like say against that, right, Like that's what you all
want to be, that's what you all want.

Speaker 6 (01:49:19):
And so, and the idea is, like he is he
has not found love at home, so he's finding love
being love bombed by these people that appreciate his skill set,
whereas at home his father is in his own words,
his father really likes anything. And then he finds a
new father that seems to like everything about him. Yeah,
so it's it's very simple exchange. It's we're getting wildly

(01:49:42):
off topic here, and I apologize, but yeah, I don't know,
like I I can't say for sure that he wouldn't
have offered them a place among the death eaters. I
just think that, like it's a matter of convenience the
people that are drawn to him, and he's already had,
he already has plans of his own with growing his
own power. But like during that time, there seems to

(01:50:04):
be a distinct effort of drawing from a pool of
Hogwarts alumni and training them by hand. And all of
them are Slytherin that we see that, So.

Speaker 4 (01:50:14):
I think I think in particular the recruitment is geared
only towards Slytherins because I think that uh Valtimort believes
that Slytherins are going to be easier to pull into
his fold. And then once and then what we what
we see with Pedigrew is once the war todd has

(01:50:36):
turned in Voltimort's favor, you start to get more and
more people to come to your side because it is
it is human nature to want to be on the
winning side.

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
Yeah for protection, Yeah, for protection.

Speaker 4 (01:50:49):
And I think I think that's what's happening with Petigrew.
And I agree that it is not spelled out anywhere, yes,
but I think that we have contact clues throughout through
interviews with Sirius and looping and you kind of looking
seeing what we know about Pedigrew, that that is what happened,
is that.

Speaker 6 (01:51:09):
You know my personal head canon. Oh go ahead, I'm sorry,
you're good. My personal head can is. I actually think, like,
if there's one character I think he did approach, I
think it was serious. I think he tried to hook.

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
What I think because he already already had Regulus.

Speaker 6 (01:51:24):
I think he wanted this set like everyone he's like,
isn't he like really skilled too? Regulus, tell me about
your brother a little more. I know he's a jackass,
but tell me about your brother a little more. Serious
has death theater qualities?

Speaker 4 (01:51:38):
He does, absolutely think the only the only the only
reason I don't think that he would is because Regulus
was only a death theater for a very short amount
of time. He tried to get in and then he
immediately bounced, you know, and we know why he bounced
all these kind of things. But yeah, we know he
bounced right from this life.

Speaker 6 (01:51:59):
Yes, he bounced from his mortal coil pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
We know that by that point, too Serious. By the
time Regulus joined up, Serious was already out.

Speaker 3 (01:52:11):
Yeah, he's the older brother.

Speaker 6 (01:52:15):
Out of respect for Walpurga, if anything, because he grew
up with Walpurga, he might have promised her that he
would offer it to both and regardless of their answers,
he would let them go.

Speaker 4 (01:52:25):
That I could, I could see that that that is possible.

Speaker 3 (01:52:28):
The only that's all, that's all speculation, that's all is
my brain.

Speaker 4 (01:52:31):
Now now now going back specifically to while wouldn't Baltimore
ever tried to recruit James and Lily? That what you're
talking about, Alison in the in the Princess Tale, whenever
talking about the Death Theater friends, all this kind of stuff.
The the the dialogue is, Lily says, you and your

(01:52:52):
precious little Death Theater friends. You see, you don't even
deny it. You don't even deny that's what you're aiming
to be. You can't wait to join you know who?
Can you? He opens his mouth, doesn't say anything, and
then Lily says, I can't pretend anymore. You've chosen your way,
I've chosen mine. And I think that that concrete answer

(01:53:12):
back is why Lily and James will never be approached
by Voldemort to join their side. It doesn't matter how
talented they are, it doesn't matter how whatever, they are.
Voldemort knows because he trusts he trusts Snape that will
never get them.

Speaker 6 (01:53:32):
And also keep in mind Lily's a muggle born like
that too.

Speaker 2 (01:53:36):
Yeah, I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (01:53:38):
He probably doesn't approach James because you know, they'd already drawn.
Lily drew that line, and as soon as James aligns
himself with Lily, that draws the line for James and
also in a way that draws the line for serious
then because Sirius will go with James.

Speaker 4 (01:53:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:54:01):
So with with talking about persuading them or not persuading them,
is this before we think Baltimore understands the prophecy, Because
my thought process is as soon as he understands the prophecy,
he is going to go and he's going to destroy
whatever is going to be possibly in his way.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
Yeah, this is definitely before because in the Prophecy it
says they've defied him thrice. Yeah, so they have three
face to face meetings and get away from him. So heck,
maybe the first one of those was him trying to
persuade them.

Speaker 3 (01:54:33):
It's possible, I will not say, but possible.

Speaker 11 (01:54:38):
All how you defied Yeah, yeah, well people we do
know about though, we get some name drops here is
and I'd forgotten about this.

Speaker 1 (01:54:50):
Hagrid mentions the mckinnons, the Bones, and the Pruets as
some of the great wizards in Witches that Voltimore has killed. Right,
So we know the Prudes, of course, are Fabian and Gideon,
and they're Molly Weasley's brothers, and we're going to hear
about them more later. We know the Boneses are related
to Susan Bones and her aunt Amelia Bones, who are

(01:55:10):
who's murdered later as well. In Order of the Phoenix,
we learn about Marlene McKinnon, who was a member of
the Order I was killed with her whole family soon
before Voltimore's downfall, which then suddenly I was like, wait
a second.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
We learn about all.

Speaker 1 (01:55:24):
Of these people in Order of the Phoenix, Like, we
hear about all of these people's face. Yes, it's when
Matt I is going through that picture that photographs serious.

Speaker 4 (01:55:35):
In the movies Mat in the book, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
Which I found fascinating. I'd forgotten that these name drops
came this early. Yeah, me too, anyway, and then we
get something something more.

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
To speculate about that we don't have an idea.

Speaker 1 (01:55:52):
So Harry's listening to all this and it says something
very painful was going on in Harry's mind. And I
was like, wait a second, Yeah, is.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
This the Horcrucks?

Speaker 1 (01:56:03):
And for lack of a better word, because I literally
could not think of a better word, is this the
hork Crucks like activating?

Speaker 12 (01:56:08):
Like now that Harry horkruks power, right ach, now that.

Speaker 1 (01:56:14):
Harry knows who he is and kind of what's happened
and has kind of embraced his own magical powers, is
the Horcrucks.

Speaker 2 (01:56:25):
Like becoming not dormant anymore?

Speaker 4 (01:56:29):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
Like because this is also.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
Where Harry hears Voldemorre's laugh for the first time, right,
he remembers that flash of green light again and he
hears that laugh, And so I was like, hold up,
I don't think we've ever talked about is this a
moment of showing that horcrucks connection here and that this
Horcrux is starting.

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
To like activate is not the word, but it's all
I can think of.

Speaker 6 (01:56:53):
Jumping, it's jumpin', it's dancing, it's going is feeling is living?
My opinion on this, as I always have an opinion
with the Tom related things.

Speaker 3 (01:57:06):
I my opinion now.

Speaker 6 (01:57:07):
That now that we reread it and went through it together,
and you pointed this out. Is uh the the Hoore
crocks that attached to Harry. It is the it is
what remains of the night that Tom has labeled as
his greatest loss. We see him say this in book seven,
this is the night of his his greatest loss.

Speaker 3 (01:57:29):
I don't I don't remember if it's exactly his greatest defeat.

Speaker 6 (01:57:33):
He describes his pain beyond pain, how he lost this
part of himself that he doesn't even know is quite gone.

Speaker 3 (01:57:39):
That's how like broken apart he is.

Speaker 6 (01:57:42):
I could actually, in a sense, I kind of agree
with you. I feel like Harry remembering this means that
part of Tom is remembering that pain, and like, I
know it's a memory of him laughing, but I think
it's like that flash of a lot of people speculated
this is actually him and kill Lily, because if it
had been him killing Harry, it would have just been
like the house being destroyed, and then like I guess

(01:58:06):
someone's screaming as Tom's body gets destroyed.

Speaker 3 (01:58:10):
So I think it might have been him killing Lily
and then laughing.

Speaker 6 (01:58:14):
So it's baby Harry's memory of Tom in that moment.

Speaker 4 (01:58:18):
Elise I I did think that the word activating was
doing a lot of work here.

Speaker 3 (01:58:25):
But it does, it does. It does read very power rangers.

Speaker 4 (01:58:31):
But I really I don't, I really don't. I don't
have another I don't. I don't have another example of why, Harry,
here's the laugh. The lot I could I could probably
just get away with like baby brain something, but the
laugh is really interesting. The laugh is really something that
that I can't get away from it being horror crucks related. Now,

(01:58:57):
I don't. I don't think that specificerfectly to do with
Haggard telling the story as much as it is. There's
a lot of stuff happening here all at one time.
Mm hmm. Voldemort has just regained some power. We know
that he's possessing Quarrel around this time he starts to

(01:59:18):
possess Quarrel because it's the summer before Quarrel comes back
to Hogwarts, so this is a month before we come back.
But we but the next day you're I can't hear anything,
Alison's saying.

Speaker 2 (01:59:33):
That's because I myself to tell you something.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
We do know that he unlike the movie, he does
not possess him until after Greendale at Green Dootts because
it says hold up, let me look.

Speaker 4 (01:59:52):
It says particularly, so, why does Quarrel have a turban
on the next day he doesn't.

Speaker 6 (01:59:58):
He doesn't in the Leaky Honestly, I pictured him with
the turbine anyway, and I was like, this man has
a very distinct fashion.

Speaker 2 (02:00:06):
Choice because he does in the movie. Yea, he has
one in the movie.

Speaker 6 (02:00:09):
I think it that way before the movie, Like as
Baby Grace reading this book, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:00:16):
Harry spotted Professor Quarrel to the nervous young man from
the Leaky Cauldron. He was looking very peculiar in a
large purple turban, and then at the end of.

Speaker 13 (02:00:23):
The book he says, hold on, I'm looking and looking
and looking in the In the next chapter, Harry said,
a pale young man made its way forward very nervously.

Speaker 4 (02:00:37):
One of his odds was twitching. Professor Quarrel Potter can't
tell you how please do meet you? What sort of
magic do you teach?

Speaker 1 (02:00:45):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:00:45):
Here it is, I found it. I found it. Sorry.
He does not forgive mistakes easily.

Speaker 1 (02:00:50):
When I failed to steal the stone from Gringots, he
was most displeased.

Speaker 2 (02:00:53):
He punished me, decided he would have to keep a
closer watch on.

Speaker 1 (02:00:56):
Me, and Harry was remembering his trip to Diagonaley.

Speaker 2 (02:01:01):
How could he have been so stupid?

Speaker 1 (02:01:03):
He'd seen Quarrel there that very day, shaking hands with
him in the leaky Caultrim, so we know he can't
touch Harry after he's been possessed by Baltimore, so he hasn't.

Speaker 4 (02:01:13):
Been okay, And they he tries to steal the Sorcerer's
Stone in Green Gods after Harry has already left because
they took they took it already, Okay, got it?

Speaker 2 (02:01:29):
Yes, Why did we bring that up?

Speaker 4 (02:01:32):
Because of the.

Speaker 2 (02:01:35):
Sorry, why didn't we bring that up?

Speaker 4 (02:01:38):
Because I was talking about Baltimore getting power at least
at least coming back at least coming back to like
London area. You've got yeah, you're right, he does. You've
got the memory, You've got Baltimore gained in some type
of power back being closer in proximity. So like, I

(02:01:58):
do think that there is a bit of like there's
a lot of stuff happening all at one time.

Speaker 6 (02:02:03):
I can't explain the proximity matters with this too, You're right,
Oh yeah, because the only time that we get the
really distinct memories from the night that the Potters were
killed is when there's literally like four pieces of soul
in one room. It's like right after that it triggers.
So I think the proximity is like a big issue here.

Speaker 2 (02:02:25):
Yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 3 (02:02:26):
So Tom is presumably back.

Speaker 6 (02:02:29):
He's back in England now possessing I think an animal.

Speaker 3 (02:02:33):
Are we thinking bunny? Cat? Snake? What do you guys
think Tom is right?

Speaker 4 (02:02:37):
Now?

Speaker 2 (02:02:38):
He says. He says, rats and snacks and snakes he.

Speaker 4 (02:02:43):
Does for the most Rats don't last that long. Snake,
snake skimp and less and longer.

Speaker 6 (02:02:50):
Yes, I'm thinking garden snake. I'm thinking that's all he
could probably find. He's like, we're running with what we
got is.

Speaker 1 (02:02:58):
Quarl just like walking around with like us. Is he
is he Britney spears at the v nas we want
out with like the python like on his shoulders.

Speaker 4 (02:03:11):
He watches. Nothing wrong with that, Allison.

Speaker 3 (02:03:17):
Dude, that's true confidence. That's beautiful.

Speaker 6 (02:03:21):
I'm so happy for him, and I'm so happy for
Tom taking probably his best form.

Speaker 2 (02:03:28):
It did not mean to be that funny that there
we go.

Speaker 3 (02:03:32):
I love that, so we do get gosh.

Speaker 1 (02:03:38):
Here we are going on winding our way back to
the actual chapter we're discussing, not the six different side things,
but this this book very much, so much follows the
classic hero's journey so exactly right. We get in this
chapter the very clear rejecting the call, right where Harry's like,

(02:03:59):
I couldn't possible be a wizard, right, I couldn't possibly ta.

Speaker 6 (02:04:04):
It couldn't possibly be a wizard.

Speaker 2 (02:04:06):
I'm just a little fun and it's my birthday.

Speaker 6 (02:04:10):
I'm eleven, and I can do maths.

Speaker 2 (02:04:15):
And I know somethings like maths. Who are you?

Speaker 6 (02:04:27):
I love him so much. I feel like Harry and
Dumbledore tie.

Speaker 3 (02:04:32):
For my second favorite.

Speaker 6 (02:04:33):
They're both so good.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
Harry is just such a sweet cinnamon roll, and we
don't give him nearly enough credit, even though this whole
book series is now I am.

Speaker 3 (02:04:43):
Please go on anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:04:46):
I do find it very funny though, because finally he
accepts it right, because Haggard's like.

Speaker 2 (02:04:51):
Never done on anything when you're scared or angry. That
was my very best.

Speaker 6 (02:04:57):
The whole conversation just makes me want to like scream, and.

Speaker 1 (02:05:00):
I love that he like he looks up at Haggard smiling,
and he's like and Haggard is positively beaming at him
like that.

Speaker 2 (02:05:07):
It's the first time anyone's ever been like Jeff with them.

Speaker 6 (02:05:10):
That he can remember.

Speaker 3 (02:05:13):
I die, I perish, truly.

Speaker 1 (02:05:15):
I know, And finally, you know, the adventure begins. The
Dirshleys are chased off. He's going to sleep under this
big old Mary Poppin with myself.

Speaker 2 (02:05:24):
He does ask that with mom.

Speaker 5 (02:05:29):
Into the pockets.

Speaker 3 (02:05:30):
I have home ownership.

Speaker 6 (02:05:34):
We bought it. We bought a home three years ago,
now almost three years ago. And uh, I was rudely
reminded what that means when we had to fish two
dead mice out of our kitchen that I had been
trying to locate all day. Clean to the whole damn
kitchen emptied the cabinets, could not find the damn.

Speaker 3 (02:05:55):
Thing, but I could smell it.

Speaker 6 (02:05:57):
But anyway, it's not great to have mice out, guys,
not in your pockets, not in your kitchen, not your anything.

Speaker 3 (02:06:04):
To stay outside.

Speaker 6 (02:06:05):
Please, you know, disembodied spirits who have lost their bodies
and have made several horcruxes need to possess those, so
just leave them outside where they belong.

Speaker 4 (02:06:20):
Grace would allow the greatest dark wizard of all time
to come back into power just to keep it moss.

Speaker 6 (02:06:29):
Mouse and say you're welcome the mice out of her house.

Speaker 5 (02:06:35):
How many rats? How many rats would you just collect?

Speaker 6 (02:06:37):
Presumably none because I don't want them near my house?

Speaker 4 (02:06:43):
Okay, yep.

Speaker 1 (02:06:45):
Anyway, But then Harry asks one last question about Haggard's expulsion,
and that's the one question Haggard won't answer.

Speaker 2 (02:06:54):
But don't worry, because we'll go get there next year.

Speaker 6 (02:06:57):
Any more about it, guys, it's not important.

Speaker 2 (02:07:00):
Don't worry about it. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 (02:07:06):
I think from that point he's probably wondering, like, what's
what can get me expelled?

Speaker 4 (02:07:11):
You know?

Speaker 5 (02:07:11):
I think that's even like probably the thought.

Speaker 4 (02:07:14):
Of the school.

Speaker 5 (02:07:15):
So so how did you get expelled? Because I don't
I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (02:07:18):
Well, he doesn't like what you just did that? What
what did you do that you expelled? Like this is fine?
What's happening here?

Speaker 4 (02:07:25):
Exactly? He just he just put a pigtail on his
cousin and it's just like, that's okay, what are we doing?
All right? Nice with an umbrella, with a pink umbrella,
not with even like we don't even Harry doesn't even
understand how that how magic works. He just thinks that
it happens.

Speaker 3 (02:07:43):
There's just a lot of umbrellas around.

Speaker 2 (02:07:46):
I mean, it is England. There's gonna be a lot
of around.

Speaker 4 (02:07:51):
Okay, that is Sorcerer's Stone, Chapter four. Everybody that's it
put a pin in it.

Speaker 6 (02:07:56):
Guys, we did it.

Speaker 4 (02:07:57):
Thank you Jason for finally growing a pair and doing
an episode with me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (02:08:05):
Yeah, you dragged them.

Speaker 2 (02:08:07):
Just backing up, the Gryffindors are bullies.

Speaker 3 (02:08:10):
These are bullies.

Speaker 6 (02:08:11):
You should just join the litherin join us.

Speaker 4 (02:08:13):
I'm about, I'm about.

Speaker 5 (02:08:18):
That's true, that's true. Happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:08:20):
It was awesome.

Speaker 5 (02:08:21):
I enjoyed it. I learned, I learned. I learned a lot. Honestly.
It was good.

Speaker 6 (02:08:24):
It was wonderful having you.

Speaker 12 (02:08:27):
Thank you, Thank you, all right, and our next episode
will be a chaptery vision of one of my all
time favorite chapters because it was my ninth birthday cakes inspiration.

Speaker 1 (02:08:42):
It was I decorated my ninth birthday cake in this
very house that I'm in right now.

Speaker 4 (02:08:47):
Hang on, hey, hey I am You decorated your own
ninth birthday cake.

Speaker 2 (02:08:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:08:54):
We always decorated our own cakes because we could do
whatever we wanted.

Speaker 2 (02:08:57):
That was our tradition.

Speaker 3 (02:08:58):
You're so good at baking too.

Speaker 6 (02:09:00):
I see all your Instagram pictures, I say in a
stocker way over here.

Speaker 4 (02:09:05):
In the twenty one years since then, she has gotten better.

Speaker 2 (02:09:09):
Yes, actually very much so. But there will be Prisoner
of Azdaban chapter eleven, the fire Bowl.

Speaker 6 (02:09:17):
And if you would like to follow us on any
social media outlets, we're at Alohamora MN or on Facebook
at Open the Dumbledore. Remember to subscribe, save and share
this episode with.

Speaker 3 (02:09:29):
All of your buddies. And also if I could add
a little plug at the end, you guys.

Speaker 6 (02:09:34):
The Voldemort Book is coming out in April of twenty
twenty six.

Speaker 3 (02:09:40):
I have made a few ins.

Speaker 6 (02:09:41):
I've made an Instagram account for it's Voldemort Book at
Voldemort Book, so very.

Speaker 3 (02:09:45):
Easy to find.

Speaker 6 (02:09:46):
And if you want to find my website, which is
sorely in need of updates, but it's Grace Victoria dot net.

Speaker 3 (02:09:53):
So I'm going to put updates on there too. But
I'm going to try to be better.

Speaker 6 (02:09:57):
About social media because I need to be.

Speaker 3 (02:10:00):
Please read it, y'all.

Speaker 1 (02:10:02):
Y'all need this book, if nothing else for the stunning
illustrations in it.

Speaker 2 (02:10:10):
They are stunning.

Speaker 3 (02:10:12):
There's so much fun.

Speaker 6 (02:10:13):
I can't wait for you guys to see him.

Speaker 3 (02:10:14):
My husband did them.

Speaker 1 (02:10:15):
There's a stellar The whole book is fantastic, obviously because
Grace is the expert, but like, thank you, this is
like beyond with those illustrations like my jaw dropped on
the phone.

Speaker 6 (02:10:26):
It is just as showy and dark as what you'd
expect a Tom book to.

Speaker 3 (02:10:31):
Yes Yes, and you actually get the answer.

Speaker 6 (02:10:35):
I know I've said it on the podcast before, but
for people who don't remember, you get the for real,
for real answer as to why I.

Speaker 3 (02:10:39):
Call him Tom instead of Boldemort.

Speaker 6 (02:10:42):
So go find out.

Speaker 3 (02:10:44):
It's real fun.

Speaker 5 (02:10:45):
There we go.

Speaker 6 (02:10:46):
This has been episode seventy five of the final one hundred.

Speaker 3 (02:10:50):
My god, we're getting close to there, wool.

Speaker 2 (02:10:53):
I'm Grace, I'm Allison.

Speaker 4 (02:10:54):
And I'm Josh. Thank you for listening to episode four
seventy five of Alohimora. Oy open the door, Open the
dumbled door, you lump.

Speaker 14 (02:11:11):
Perfect bingo nailed it all right, you guys give.

Speaker 15 (02:11:23):
Me Aloha Mora is produced by Tracy Dunstan. This episode
was edited by Patrick Muselek. Alohamra was co created by
Noah Breed and Cat Miller and is brought.

Speaker 5 (02:11:39):
To you by a p W B d LLC.

Speaker 2 (02:11:44):
I feel like I'm freaking out.

Speaker 4 (02:11:47):
What was your what was your comment? Comment or name?
That early?

Speaker 2 (02:11:53):
It was still Ali Wood.

Speaker 4 (02:11:55):
Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't see you only Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:11:58):
I think I did mostly stuff on the floor which
are defunct now.

Speaker 4 (02:12:02):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (02:12:05):
Yeah, forums back then were the way to go. I
loved forums.

Speaker 2 (02:12:09):
It's a good time.

Speaker 3 (02:12:10):
Oh all the old Harry Potter RP forums. You'll find
me baby speaking.

Speaker 6 (02:12:23):
Well, why am I getting side eyes over here?

Speaker 2 (02:12:26):
This is a crew of nerds. That's why we're laughing
because we were all there.

Speaker 6 (02:12:34):
I'm glad. Oh so I saw you guys there. That's
what That's why I'm getting the side eye. You guys
just don't want to talk.

Speaker 2 (02:12:39):
About Josh Wampson die right now.

Speaker 1 (02:12:47):
He's regretting every life decision he's ever made.

Speaker 4 (02:12:51):
That's a normal Friday for me else and that's that
has nothing to do with the bodcast, I know.

Speaker 2 (02:12:59):
All right, Well, let's

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