Another Pass at Reboot Season 4: Daemon Rising & My Two Bobs

Red comes from the Net. She makes videos and comics and now this place: Another Pass. Her goal: discuss Reboot Season 3. Her price: Discuss Reboot Season 4.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Like, I don't have, like, great notes for how to fix either of the two movies and quotes. Well, I've got about, like, ten lines of notes as opposed to, like, a multi step summary.
You have notes? I just have rage. So, like, you're a step ahead of me.
Seething isn't quite the right word, but, like, rage is accurate.

(00:20):
Yeah, look, there's just the profound wrongness.
Welcome to certain povs, another past podcast with case and Sam, where we take another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the another Pass podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Sam Alisea.

(00:44):
It's good to be back.
Yeah. Yeah. The SAG strike put us on hold for a while during that whole phase, so we're coming off a stretch. We had some banked episodes going into it, but we haven't actually recorded in a little bit.
We're rusty. We're sorry.
Sorry if we're a bit rusty, but on that note, rust is red. I'm sorry. I'm really reaching here on this one. Today, we are joined by Red from overly sarcastic productions.

(01:10):
I come from the net. Hello. I truly cannot overstate how excited I am to be here because you invited me with just the finest honey pot you could have crafted to specifically get me on.
I even, like, I was like, I really want to talk to Red about today's topic. And I was, like, worried because you were so gracious to come on this show. And then we recently had you on men of steel, and I was like, oh, you know, like, I don't want to, like, be, like, rude. You have a very popular YouTube channel. I'm sure you get, like, questions all the time for appearances and stuff. I reached out to our mutual friend Safiya, and I was like, hey, I wanna talk to Rhett about reboot season four. And she was like, you have to immediately email her because she obviously would wanna talk to you about this.

(01:53):
I mean, going to my friends was the smart move because every single one of them knows my lifelong crusade to try and convince anyone, anybody I know in real life that this show is really good and worth watching. And they just need to get past the fact that it was animated in the nineties and therefore looks a little bit chonk in the first season.
You know, it's like, the first, like, fully cg show. Like, I'm sure that there's, like, some competition worldwide for it all, but like, it's one of the ones that had notoriety. It was like up on ABC's lineup. And just to put it in perspective for people out there, reboot is the direct lead in to Beast wars.

(02:26):
Yeah, it was the same company that was doing them. I think a lot of the voice cast is the same, too. Scott McNeil, at least, is all over both of them.
Once you're able to listen for voice actors, you start popping and observing all of them, especially in season three and four.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
So we are talking about reboot, and we're technically talking about reboot season four, which when people are like, hey, you're a movie show. Initially, season four was released in two movies made for tv. So it was two movies that came out. One was Damon rising and then the second one was my two bobs. And they were structured. It's kind of like, what was it, season five of Futurama, where it was like all in movies that broke up into episodes. So it's four episode chunks that each turn into a movie. And then there was supposed to be something after that, and then it didn't happen. And thus the show ends on a terrible cliffhanger. So that's gonna be part of this.

(03:21):
Conversation, obviously terrible in so many ways.
But we're obviously also going to talk about the rest of reboot, especially season two, season three, because season three is the one that, like, listeners, I'm not going to sugarcoat my opinion on this one. It's what I consider peak television. I think it is structurally perfect. There are very few things where I'm like, no, no. Like, you can see the structure. It's very clear. But it is so fucking satisfying to see how well they just, like, pace out the entire thing based on some predetermined guideline. This is like when you have a planner versus pantser and you see, like, planner.

(03:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like that for tv shows, movies. It's Disney's Tarzan. We're talking about some, like, really effective. Like, yeah, we laid out exactly how we want all the beats to go season three. Is that. So we're gonna fucking talk about it, and we're gonna talk about the show a bit, just in general, because it is such like a pivotal early CGI show that somehow Sam Alasea had never watched before.

(04:15):
Huh.
So here's the thing. I was around then. I was alive. I was watching tv. I saw it, and it was ugly. And so I did not watch it. I realized with you.
No, I was lucky. I was lucky because both my parents were into it. So we had the dvd set when I was a wee one. It was the first show I watched in my life. I imprinted on it like a baby bird.

(04:41):
Fair. In my defense, I was still very much into animation, and I still am, but I was already. I mean, this came out like 94, right? So I was, like, 1314 when this came out because older. And, like, honestly, I just. I had other things to do, you know, like, if something didn't please me, aesthetically, didn't have to kind of fall into that.

(05:05):
Yeah, no, that. That is super fair.
The uniboob did not help on the female character, which was a Disney thing. I learned looking stuff up on YouTube when I had to do my cliffs notes, because I still think season one is very ugly. Especially the facial expressions. They're awful, and I could not get over it.
Weirdly, I think the season four facial expressions are somehow much less appealing than the ones in season one.

(05:30):
Yes. It's an uncanny valley situation. One is too far away and one is too close.
I think they put a huge amount of work into season one of trying to make the characters appealing. Looking. And the body motions are usually incredibly stiff, but it's like they wanted to get the faces right. They put a lot of focus into things like pupil dilation, just for shit's sake.
Right. But season one, it's partially because of the technology, right. So the details aren't fully there. And sometimes when people are smiling, it actually looks more like a grimace. Like Ron DeSantis smiling. Like, that's how.

(06:01):
Yeah. Where you can hear the glitch sound happen when it. When they go for the smile, it.
Doesn'T get to their eyes.
And so, like, honestly, like, it. It looks really awkward. The problem with season four is that now we have a technology to make something clear and do things, but now the facial features are haunting. Like, it's. Like, it's a different type of creepy. And I think case is right. It's like they didn't have the technology to go there. Like, it's almost like, you know how when George Lucas redid Star wars and hit jabba the hot hut walking, it's like, oh, maybe we didn't need that. Like, you know? So it's just sometimes the better technology doesn't make things better.

(06:43):
Yeah.
Which is why it's a real Goldilocks zone, where season three is truly the best the show ever looks and feels.
Yeah, like, that's the thing. Like, season three has the notable uptick in quality from season one and two, but it doesn't go too far.
Yeah. I finally figured out what they did to make it look so good in the jump between season two and three. Cause the last time I rewatched this, like a year or two ago, I noticed, like, oh, suddenly, from the end of season two to the very first episode of season three, it's in media's res. It's like the same scene, basically, but it looks so much better.

(07:11):
Is it the hair shadow?
Basically, they added some kind of universal lighting renderer, because if you watch season one and two, nobody ever casts a shadow on the ground. Anytime they do a wide shot, you'll notice they kind of look like they're just floating in a void. Like their feet are on the ground, but they're not casting a shadow. And that's a huge, like, that's a thing you subconsciously pick up. Season three, they added some kind of universal lighting renderer. So everyone is casting a shadow on the ground, and everyone's model is casting a shadow on themselves. Like, Dot's glasses cast a shadow on her face, stuff like that. And it's a very small thing, but it does a huge amount to make the world feel a lot cleaner and a lot shinier.

(07:46):
So, Sam, I get your take on why you didn't get into it. I do understand this one because season one of reboot for me, so if this was 94, then I was ten. So I feel like I was slightly on the old side for when season one came out, what their target demo was. I remember checking it out because I was fascinated by the technology. There had been other attempts at putting CGI in shows, but this was like, hey, this is going to be a greenlit CGI show that was back to back with a stop motion animation show with bump in the night. So it was like animation block that was really interesting on ABC that was trying to compete.

(08:20):
I forget all the specifics, but it was like a particular, like, they were launching, like, a new line of programming to, like, really try to, like, get Saturday morning cartoons. And I checked it out and it was like, cool. But it was like, all right, yeah, it's fine. I wasn't very committed to season one. Season two, the episode that, like, really got me back into the show, just in general, was, I think it was called Nullzilla.

(08:41):
The web creature enters the story.
Where the nulls, like, overtake hexadecimal, and we get a kaiju fight versus, like, a megazord, like a Power Rangers parody. And anyone who knows me is that a good Power Rangers parody in your piece is gonna get me on board pretty hookly and sinker. So there's that. But it was still like, well, it was fine, but it wasn't gargoyles. You know, it was fine, right?

(09:01):
Oh, yeah. I mean, that's an unfair comparison.
Exactly. But I'm saying, like, I also was slightly on the old end for season one and two when it was actively coming out. And then there was, like, a couple year gap between season two and season three. And I caught a random episode on Toonami and I was like, what the fuck is this? Cause, like, I think I'd seen, like, one or two episodes of, like, the first chunk of season three, and then I caught a random episode of, like, the second chunk. I don't think it was the first episode where it explains that they had just come back from the games. I think it was like, episode two with, like, the star Trek parody episode.

(09:35):
Oh, yeah, that's in, like, the second block of season three.
Another way to get a case.
Yeah.
Yes. Also another way to, like, get case on board immediately. But it was so fucking cool and it was such a big shift in the characters and, you know, I hate to be like, the, like, oh, I was a teenager and, you know, the edge lord. Like, oh, it was more violent, but kind of. Yeah. Like, it was allowed to do stuff that they weren't allowed to do before. And I was like, this is really interesting that they're allowed to take all these risks that they couldn't previously do.

(10:05):
Yeah, I noticed when they made the shift of being able to say die and, like, kill and stuff, that was cool.
It was just a dramatic shift. And that's when I, like, sat down and just, you know, syndication, so they weren't, like, always, like, playing it in the right order and just, like, kept watching the show and then just really enjoying all those episodes and, like, seeing the whole season over the course of it, which is perfect tv, in my opinion. Like, it is so fucking perfect.

(10:28):
I mean, season three was like, the.
Chunks are so good. Like, the character progression for Enzo into Matrix, it is so perfect. And even the absence of Bob is so perfect. Like, it makes the stakes so much higher throughout the whole thing. And God fucking damn it, season three has the most earned fights that are somehow so goddamn good and, like, cathartic that rewatching them, like, I would rewatch either the Matrix megabyte fight or the Matrix user demon thing fight.

(10:59):
Yeah, infinitely.
They are staged really well. The stakes work really well. They feel inevitable in a way that is extremely satisfying. And it's rare to get a real mashup of two heavies and feel like it's heavies in animation.
There are so many really interesting things about season three to me. Although I did want to real quick because were talking about how we first watched it when it came out in 1994. I had not been born yet.

(11:26):
None of us are the target demographic for the show.
Yeah, the thing is, I think what we had is vhs tapes of season one and two, but they'd kind of already been old by the time were considering. Cause vhs degrades pretty quick. So the ones we consistently had were the box set for season three. So I watched that several times, and I didn't have as clear a memory of the context of seasons one and two. And then when I got Internet access, I went back and watched through it, and I was like, this slaps. And the context is so powerful. Cause to me, Enzo was the main character of the entire show. Cause I vaguely remembered Bob had existed. That's, like, super interesting.

(12:02):
Such a wild way to watch it. Yeah.
Yeah. For me, like, the fact that season three is the Enzo matrix power hour made perfect sense. He was the main character of the show. And, like, Bob haunts the narrative so profoundly, especially for those first few episodes where, like, every time his name comes up, he's like an open wound in the show. And there's these flashbacks, like, it's Bob, my friend. And I was like, yeah, there is Bob, your friend. And then there's the episode with the prisoner reference. It's like all that stuff. But I did want to share a secondhand anecdote my mom mentioned, because I was talking this over with her and my dad earlier this week, and I was like, yeah, I have to rewatch all of it. And season four. And they were like, oh, sorry about that. And she mentioned that.

(12:39):
But they'd been to a worldcon, I think, when I was very young, when season three had been like, Greenland was being made or something. But it was something like the way she described it. The ending of season two hadn't yet aired, where they could conveniently see it. So what they did was, at the convention, the creators showed firewall. And then they did a little Q and A afterwards, and someone was like, that was so cool. That's amazing. But where's Bob? And they just got this bodhisattva calm expression of like, I'm not gonna answer that question. Because nobody had. They hadn't seen the ending of season two yet, but they just seen firewall and they were like, that was amazing. Where's the main character, though? Because they mentioned Bob's not here. And it's like, yeah, but where is he, though?

(13:23):
They don't say in firewall, what happened? So an incomparable moment. That must have been firewall.
Such a good episode. I mean, I think that the first block of season three is deceptively strong overall because it's before the time jump. It feels like a prologue. If you're coming in and season three is particularly your jam and Matrix is your hero, it doesn't feel like you're into the real season until you're into the second block where we're dealing with Matrix andrea game hopping. So the first chunk, I think all four of those episodes are so goddamn perfect. And like I said, structurally speaking, all of the 16 episodes of season three, I think, contribute to the stakes perfectly and continue. And I keep using that word because it is so rare that we have something that does it. Yeah, it's incredible. I know. This is not a fifth episode we're talking about. Ultimately, a bad project. We'll get to season four.

(14:17):
I'm sorry, we have to guess three.
We need to establish that this show sets up the dynamic between Enzo, Matrix and Megabyte so fucking well in season three that. Jeff, please grab the audio of Tony Jay, who is the reason this show is so goddamn good. Like, on top of everything else, but, like, the reason why season one is worth watching is Tony Jay is the voice actor for Megabyte, and he's incredible. Grab the audio of when Megabyte threatens Enzo right now.

(14:49):
Where are the recovery teams? We should have been picked up by now.
They have been delayed. Megabyte, I have a message for your sister.
I am a guardian. I'm not your messenger.
You are what you have always been, a mere delivery boy. Do not provoke me further. It is by my will alone you survive this encounter. Be well advised to remember that. Ok, listeners, you understand why this show is so fucking cool and why they established that megabyte is the threat that will haunt Enzo for the entirety of the season. Until we get to their confrontation, it is the most earned fight ever.

(15:32):
Zachary, I'm so glad that you brought up gargoyles, because gargoyles is another show where I just get people in by, like, no, the voice of the main guy is so good, though. Like, you don't even need the plot. Like, I just make them watch for the first five minutes until Keith David said his first line of, you are trespassing and then they're hooked. They can't get out.
That was a show where, like, the opening credits from season two on, when they have the Keith David like voiceover on it somehow sells the entire show. Like, you just this one guy talking.

(15:59):
Yeah. Oh, man.
But yeah.
No. Season three truly provides a perfect arc for Enzo, who in the first two seasons is very much like the tag along kids sidekick. I think he's kind of implied to be theoretical pov character because the first couple seasons especially are aimed at a pretty younger age block. And there's a lot of, like, Enzo centric episodes. They're usually not the particularly good episodes, but they do happen with kind of alarming frequency. And him being like, oh, I idolize Bob and I want to be a guardian. That's like, his whole thing. And then at the end of season two, and it's like, oh, field upgrade, friends. Oh, he gets to assuming nothing catastrophic happens and derails the entire status quo of the show. He'll be a cadet guardian next season and Bob can train him. And then where's Bob? Whoops.

(16:42):
We get Robin with no Batman.
Yeah, yeah. The little bit where Bob's like, if anything happens to me, you're supposed to guard main for Menzel's. Like, yes, sir. And it's like, yeah, that'll never happen. He's the main guy, right?
I mean, it's great. I think it's actually really great, red, that you like that you watch the show because, like, so in my slips notes, I learned a lot of history about the show. And one of the things was that, like, ABC Disney was really pushing for a child character to be on the show, and the original creators did not want to have one. And the guy was like, one of the executives of ABC was like, no, you got to have, like, you know, you got to have, like, a proxy for kids. You got to have, like, I don't know, like, a little Enzo running around. And they were like, what? And so they just thought it was really funny. So that's how that became Enzo's name, because the guy threw out a weird name and they were like, that's him.

(17:38):
And so that's how Enzo. His name. But he's supposed to be your proxy. So it's. I mean, you're. You're a kid, right? So, like, it makes sense that he became the main character and he is the main character of the third season.
Yeah, for sure. Fully. Season three is 100% about Enzo becoming matrix. And what I think is so interesting is that, like, even when he's a kid. His characterization is very consistent with how he was characterized in the first couple seasons, which is, he's very enthusiastic, he's very confident, and he's incredibly easily disheartened when things don't go his way. Yeah, and we see that in a big way in the first few episodes of season three. Cause initially he's like, dawn, I'm a guardian, Bob said, so I need to go play games. And then as soon as things start going badly and people don't respect him, he's like, never mind, this sucks. And it's all fun and games. And then the thing is, firewall has to happen because it is his moment of absolute triumph.

(18:30):
Firewall is when everything goes right for Enzo, and then it's like, we've got. The virus is contained. Now all Enzo has to do is keep winning games. What's that? Mortal Kombat. Oh, no. And it's like nothing was stacked against him. It was just bad luck, and it completely destroys everything. And it's just this horrifying tragedy. And it only works because we've seen the way that Enzo reacts to being built up and then being knocked down. And what I love about that is that stays consistent when he grows up to be matrix, where he's still confident this time he's actually badass enough to back it up, but he still becomes incredibly disheartened as soon as anything doesn't go right.

(19:11):
And notably, one thing that I think is really cool about his adult characterization is that anytime an authority figure scolds him, he becomes this despondent big kid again. Like, he'll just always be like, oh, no, I disappointed captain capacitor or Bob. This is a nightmare. And he just, like, lumbers off, and it's like, that's heartbreaking, because that makes perfect sense for this guy.

(19:32):
Yeah. The dynamic of Enzo andrea in surviving in the games, aging up, and, like, they had this, like, plot contrivance that the game time, which they set up in season three, it was not a thing in season one and two, but they. They bring it up enough times, like, pre, the actual incident, that you're not, like, totally surprised when you find out that, like, game time happens faster than regular time. It's the hyperbolic time chamber from Dragon Ball Z, if.

(19:58):
Yeah, exactly.
They will spend a year in a video game, and it'll only be a day outside. And so they're older and, like, you know, they also do this whole, like, computer time thing, which, by the way, makes it actually opposite sense, because, like, wouldn't the video games be at the user speed, and the user speed is human speed, and they're, like, seconds are, like, months.

(20:20):
Well, the thing is, like, yeah, it's backwards. I think you can kind of, like, squint enough to sort of make it make sense. Like, if they're not perceiving time passing at that speed, but still, like, seconds of real time are going by, so they are physically aging. It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't matter because, like, it's the hyperbolic time chamber.
It's cool.
The whole computer metaphor of this all only barely makes sense if you have the best head cannon or you just don't think about it because it, like, tron just, like, is, like, fighting for this sort of, like, fantasy setting kind of environment that they have. In this case, a little more cyberpunk, whereas, like, tron is, like, more, like, straight up, like, fantasy. But either way, using computers, because, like, computers are cool, and they're both pushing the envelope of, like, what is cg? And, like, what you can do in terms of, like, crazy graphics. One for a movie in the eighties and this for a tv show in the nineties. So the metaphor is there only for the barest of reasons. It doesn't matter.

(21:15):
And that's why, like, season three, where it's, like, we all know enough about computers now that none of this makes sense, we're here for the cool story. Like that. Like, that's the point.
Yeah.
They set it up and it's like, cool. All right, fine. And then we get this, like, time jump, and we have such a solid, fucking, like, wild pair that, like, immediately set up as, like, having done this all the time, having had, like, all these adventures that we just weren't privy to because now we've caught up to them. Like, gun, for example. Gun.

(21:43):
Gun. Yeah, he has a gun. It's called gun. It's great. It's linked with his cybernetic eye.
It is a sentient gun that he has, or semi sentient gun. Like, he can give it commands. It functions. It's a sprite, apparently, of some kind. Like, it degrades the web. Like, where does he get it? What is it? It's like. It's fascinating. And it is never explained in the show.

(22:06):
Never? No. Not even a little bit. Because it's like, yeah, of course he has a gun. He's so cool now. Why wouldn't he have a gun?
It's like a dancing sword from D and D. But it's a gun, right? You can command it to do whatever. It functions that way. And it works in conjunction with his mechanical eye. That is cable as fuck. But more importantly, we see him lose his eye.
He loses his fucking eye. A child gets his eye slashed out of his face by Satan and then we just all have to kind of deal with that.

(22:33):
Yeah. So we see this full progression of the character. The outfit he's wearing is the Guardian armor but sewn together and sort of because he doesn't have, like, he's so big now.
Well, what I like about that is, I guess the implication is, like, if he'd been, you know, if he'd been downloaded to the supercomputer and, you know, gotten the guardian training he probably would have, like, grown up and gotten like an upgraded guardian armor because he just had version one. As he got bigger, like, he still has the pants, the cadet pants. And he's just got one shoulder pad and then just like a tank top. And he's just doing his best. Right.

(23:04):
Like, I took it as he took, like, whatever. Like, the Kevlar, in quotes, of the armor component, like, the body. He kind of reconfigured it to, like, cover just his torso because he just didn't have enough of it. Like, enough material to cover the rest of his body because he's so fucking huge.
I don't know how much that really. I mean, yeah, that works. They are sprites. They can just kind of download new albums.
Yeah. Like, later stuff kind of makes it weirder. But, like, in this reality, it kind of, it works. It's the post apocalyptic spider jump character version of Enzo.

(23:34):
Right.
And there is a little interesting note about that specifically because I watched season three basically in one sitting. And of course, in the first block, he's like, yeah, that's right. I'm a guardian. I finally proved myself. I'm a guardian. The first thing we hear from Matrix is I'm not a guardian. I'm a renegade.
Right?
He's like, oh, no. Oh, no. All of his dreams have been dashed. And he's just okay with that now.

(23:56):
Yeah. He's accepted it because he's like, 25, right? He's not like, it's not. He's not, like 18. He's like, he is older.
He's like young adult, something like that.
I believe, like, 22, but I would not believe, like, oh, he's just like an 18 year old ish. Especially because Andrea is like, no way.
In hell that they're 18.
No, no, exactly. They're not barely adults. They're very much adults. He's fine at a bar getting a drink. They've existed in the world even though they don't even have their high school diploma. They are street smart individuals, which is a cool element for their characters. On top of it all, he also has a broken glitch, which we haven't talked about. But one thing if you're not familiar with the series, the Guardian key tools are, like, green Lantern rings, basically.

(24:38):
Yeah.
Especially later on. The Guardians in the series is very Lensman, Green Lantern core esque. I think Linsman is actually really apt when you look at what the key tool does versus what's innate to the character. All guardians have a couple of cool, real things, and then they've got the lens or in this key tool, and the key tool is sentient. It also gave me shades of the trill from Star Deep Space Nine.

(25:02):
Oh, yeah.
Just a little code swapping that goes on. I was like, do they get the experience of everyone before? Is this, like, that's kind of cool. But regardless, it's the Green Lantern Corps. Like, it's the, like, we're the space cops, like, out there kind of thing.
They've got the exact same weakness of, oh, my battery's out. Sorry, guys. I'm a normal dude this episode, right?
Yeah.

(25:23):
But Enzo gets a broken one and, like, has a broken one as a guardian in the first place. So the successes he has, Bob wouldn't have had those issues because Bob had a perfectly fine glitch that was able to function perfectly and could create all kinds of comical constructions when he needed it. Enzo does well sans that glitch is basically a smartphone at that point. It's information tools, and a couple of times it can function, but it's not really doing much because it's broken. He keeps it with him into adulthood, and that's this additional component of it all where it's, like, the key tool chooses you. We get the verification of that he is doing the right job. He's just had, like, the world stacked against him.

(26:04):
Yeah. I think that there are a lot of really interesting things about the shift in the vibe from season two to season three. One kind of minor one that I picked up this time around is that season three really leans heavily into this ensemble cast trope that I really like, where, like, everybody in the cast is absolutely superlative at, like, one specific thing and everyone else in the main cast is a little bit afraid of them in that context where it's like, oh, like, mouse is the scariest hacker ever. There's a line where it's like, oh, we would have stood a chance against the guardians, but mouse. And it's like, yeah, she's on their side. They like her, but they're scared shitless.

(26:36):
And, like, matrix, almost half the lines about Matrix are just about how he is always the scariest thing in any room he's in.
Yeah. Andrea, who is both hyper competent to the point of absurdity throughout this all. And also really into bikes.
Yeah, I like the bike thing. And there's a moment where, like, she does something so impressive that it makes Matrix and megabyte, like, stare at her in open shock for a minute. And that was very cool. Like, she. They're all just so badass this season.

(27:03):
And, like, we need to shout out dot specifically, because it is, like, to a community.
Yeah.
Dot is about plans, but they don't show the plans most of the time. They usually just like. It's almost to a superpower degree of like, well, that was a goddamn good plan that dot came up with.
Like, yeah. Like, well, someone will say, what we need is a plan. Dot will pop up and then it'll cut to it, like, working because, you know, unspoken plan guarantee. If she told us the plan, it wouldn't work. So instead, it's just like, wow. Dot makes a pretty good plan.

(27:31):
That was a good plan from Dot. Yeah. Oh, my God. That was a successful plan from Dot right there.
Another successful dot maneuver. And then, like, one thing I really like about Bob in this season when he does eventually show up against spoiler alert. Is that, like, it's a little bit subtle, but in the first couple seasons, Bob is a trickster hero. Like, he's got the. He's got the key tool lensman thing, but he's fundamentally outgunned by absolutely every other bad guy in the show. Megabyte has brute force. Hexadecimal has literal reality warping powers. He cannot just beat these guys in a straight fight, ever. So he always comes up with kind of a tricky plan or he outsmarts them in some way.

(28:05):
Oh, God. This is like a d and d party where he's the rogue, megabyte's the fighter, and the magic user.
Is hexadecimal a thief? I'm always the warrior. But it's really funny because when he shows back up in season three, he kind of gets the element of brute force, but he also is picking up on things a lot faster than anybody else. He's kind of got, like, detective vision. Like, dodd is plan smart, but Bob is the one who figures out, like, oh, wow, a big tear just opened over the principal's office. Oh, my gosh. Fong must be alive. That's the only way Megabyte could have done that. Like, he immediately gets that where everyone is like, oh, shit. And it's just this little moment that kind of makes the team feel very well rounded and that everyone is, like, vital and respected and, like, you know, understood for what they can do.

(28:47):
And it's cool because that also means that matrix contributes something absolutely vital. Cause the team good guy has never had brute force on their side before. And then at one point later, Matrix physically out fights a T Rex and it's just a background event that nobody even comments on. So, like, it's cool that they have him around now, which I think is huge because Enzo spends the entire first and second season being like, oh, when I grow up, I want to be just like my heroes. And then he grows up to be a third different kind of hero. That's vitally necessary to help out those two heroes.

(29:14):
Yep.
Yeah.
And then the fourth season happens.
Can we just sit in the season three for a little longer?
We need to talk about season three a little bit more.
Are you sure?
Things that are cool, like the Pirates, like them being brought back in.
The pirates.
The Pirates are one of the best parts about season one of reboot because it was such a cool idea to have a group of pirates where Dot just is like, have you thought about, I mean, like, mind some of the words here? I don't want to lose my lefty card, but Dot opens up with, have you thought about capitalism?

(29:46):
Well, it's. Have you thought about going legit?
I guess effectively it's capitalism versus mercantilism, which I am cool with that transition there, but we need to keep progressing to. Not that, but the point is doing trade as opposed to theft, which I don't actually really want to compare to capitalism because trade exists outside of that structure. Sorry, lefty. Rant. Had to do it. Can't lose my card.

(30:12):
Yay.
So the pirates are great. The pirates are a really cool element that have existed in the background of the show, I think. Really only in that one episode, right? Besides, like, cameo appearances or.
Yeah, exactly. That's when I was rewatching season one. I was like, okay, only the ones that are plot necessary. And I was like, a lot of these are plot necessary. The crimson binome shows up here and never again until season three.
But, yeah, the crimson binom is so fucking cool and it's such a like, season three, chunk one ends with Enzo apparently dying and just, like, crying for the end of the episode. And it's like a really.

(30:42):
Which I think is the first time we've seen her cry. Except for, like, the little moment where she was like, oh, I'm upset, but I'm gonna hide it from the troops because I'm.
It's real big at that moment. Which makes perfect sense.
Yeah.
Then the chunk from section two of season three into three is like, we get the turbo encounter. So we get, like, a big info dump about the Guardians and all this stuff. And that's all really cool. And actually, we feel like Damon foreshadowing even though we know that there's a big super virus out there. But, like, it's like, oh, yeah, turbo. He's still a friend, actually. And not just like some kind of dick. Oh, I'm doing okay. Also, not that much time has passed, by the way. Did you realize that? We thought, like. Like, all this time had passed and our friends were all dead at this point, but it's probably only been, like, two weeks.

(31:22):
I think the implication was it was on the order of a year.
Yeah. There is a time jump for everyone. It's nothing, but. So there's that. And then we get the Crimson Binom walking in. And that's fantastic because he's like, yeah, he was an enemy of Bob's. But what he was business partners with Dot. And Enzo is Dot's little brother. It's a totally different relationship than what Bob had. And, like, Bob could have. It would have still worked. But Enzo was the kid that they all knew and they all kind of liked. And so there's also. You have to deal with the whole. No, no, I swear. I'm Enzo.

(31:58):
Yeah, well, that's. Oh, man. I mean, if you just keep track of the different ways he says, it's me, Enzo. Through the course of season three, you get a full picture of his arc. Cause initially he's very much like, I left that weak little boy behind me. He sucked and was really annoying. And now I'm cool and awesome. And then he has his character development coma where he's like, wait a minute. Am I literally becoming everything I've sworn to destroy in the effort of trying to become strong enough to destroy it? So good.

(32:25):
One of the best goddamn episodes, by the way, that completely you could cut out and lose nothing of the plot. But it is perfect character development. I keep saying perfect because the season's that goddamn good. And that, Sam, is why we're not moving on to four yet.
We have to eventually get to four.
We do have to eventually.
Eventually.
I am just telling you that we are supposed to be talking about four, and I am getting anxious that this is going to become a man of Steel episode.

(32:52):
A lot of season three is written by Marv Wolfman. I wanted to say that Marv Wolfman wrote a lot of season three. I thought that was really cool because I was like, what happened with season four? I was like, no, Marv Wolfman. And none of the writers from season three wrote season four. That explains it. But, like, the whole matrix's internal arc and the fact that he's so self destructive and so self loathing is so interesting, and the fact that he's fully the focus character of season three means all that gets to be explored. I'm bringing this up because I don't think they knew what to do with him in season four, even a little bit. And. Cause he's my boy. He is. Again, for me, he was the main character of the show.

(33:29):
So, like, the changes, they made it very clear, like, oh, this batch of writers just doesn't know what to do with him because his arc perfectly resolved at the end of season three, and they just kind of have to pretend that didn't happen.
Here's why it's important that we, like, actually, like, nail out everything about season three, because season three ends so well that season four had a really steep hill to climb if it was going to try to, like, live up to anything from season three. With that said, season three. So we get the most cathartic in, like, beatdown of a character. Like, megabyte is awesome. He's voiced by Tony Jay, who is an incredible voice actor. But it's not that, like, Tony Jay did, like, a bunch of cartoons. He was on the mighty Ducks cartoon, the one where they're alien ducks. Like, he's a dragon enemy of theirs who faces them, faces off against them through both sorcery and hockey. Like, just. Just got range about what, like, Tony Jade appears to be.

(34:21):
It's the most rad role ever, but go on.
He's amazing in this role. And Megabyte is like a Thanos style, like, full on or really a dark side style. Like, he. He can infect and he has armies of people, but he's also a bruiser and he's really smart. And I think that's a really nice combo. Like, that brilliant bruiser situation with this amazing voice actor who they make jokes about how, like, erudite he is. Like, it's so goddamn good.

(34:48):
He's so polite.
How just, like, enjoyable he is in every scene. Again, season one is watchable because Tony Jay is such a good main villain for the series.
Agreed.
Megabyte, one thing I think is really interesting about him is that the way they designed him is clearly, like, he's the lawful evil to hexadecimals. Chaotic evil. At one point, she actively tells him, like, oh, chaos will always triumph over order. It is the way of things. And it's just like, okay, so that's their archetypes. He's lawful evil. She's chaotic evil. She just does unpredictable things. Like, truly unpredictable. Like, her main consistent character trait is that she's in love with Bob and she helps launch him into the web at the end of season two. She doesn't care. It's really funny, but Megabyte is lawful evil. He makes plans and schemes, but he's also physically incredibly imposing.

(35:31):
And throughout season one and two, you kind of get the vibe that the power balance of mainframe is much more delicate than anybody would want it to be. Like, any one thing happens and it risks a complete system conquest by Megabyte.
Probably if I wasn't such a brave face, it would have a totally different vibe, which is what season three is.
Well, that's the other thing. Like, Bob is legitimately a ridiculously competent warrior. He just doesn't have, like, brute strength on his side. Like, one of the things they show routinely is that he's really good at winning games. Like, he's incredibly. Like, episode one actually does a remarkably good job of just establishing everybody's character really quickly. One of the first things they show about Bob is that, like, Dot, who is the smart person who we've seen to be very competent, is, like, a little bit nervous doing this flying game. And Bob is just completely unbothered and unworried, just, you know, making his way through this game. He's trained for this. He is an incredibly competent and cunning warrior. He makes it look easy. And then in season three, it's like, oh, no.

(36:24):
Bob was doing a lot to make this not a disaster 100% of the time. And there's one thing I think is crucial with the megabyte Bob dynamic, which is they don't have any of what I call villain chemistry. They just don't like each other. There's none of that, like, oh, we're the opponent. You are the only, you know, my. My murder soulmate. There's no, like, Megatron Optimus prime thing. There's no magneto Professor X thing. They just don't like each other and wish the other one would stop doing whatever it is they're doing. And the personal dynamic that you get is between megabyte and Matrix, for whom this vengeance thing is incredibly personal and incredibly emotionally motivated. But, like, Bob basically isn't there for that entire final chunk of the season three final battle.

(37:08):
It's just megabyte matrix one one because Bob doesn't need, like, an emotional final showdown with Megabyte. They've just been trying to make each other stop doing what they're doing. Like, there's no vibes in it. He's not even like, I'll get vengeance for getting shot into the web. That's not Bob's vibe at all. No, he's not a vengeance y guy, which is part of, again, I'm planting for what we pay off in season four when we talk about what went wrong.

(37:30):
He becomes, like, this messiah figure when they, like, finally find him. You know, it's a quest to find him out in the web. And it's so cool that we get. Get this whole pirate works big voyage kind of thing.
Pirate spaceship.
It's all so fun. We get back to then the destroyed mainframe with Bob, who is merged with his key tool and has this brilliant silver surfer kind of literal paladin, white knight kind of design to him.

(37:55):
All, yeah, he's kind of odysseus. He went missing and come back when.
He started doing the I come from the net monologue when he brought them towards the tear. I tear up every time. I can't explain this to anybody who hasn't watched the show the last chunk.
The fourth block of season three is such a solid confrontation of this all we see, that megabyte, unrestrained by any kind of guardian, has become like a complete destructive force. It's like the hyenas from Lion King, where it's like they rule, but also they fuck everything up and it's going real bad. We see the kind consequence of losing games, and it's set up like the first episode of the second block, the one that introduces the time jump for Matrix andrea. We see a system where, like, it just, they keep losing games and we see what happens if you don't. I mean, it doesn't make any sense from a computer standpoint, but. But the whole, like, if you keep doing that, like, sections of your city are going to get, like, wiped out and nullified and it just, like, keeps on coming.

(38:56):
And now we're seeing like, what's happening to an active system that we care about where that's been occurring. Megabyte is all powerful and gone fully. It's the anti life equation full out. It's like the dark side has one situation, the dark side is situation. And then we get that confrontation with Megabyte, but shit's too bad. And we get the confrontation with the user, which I'm like, that was a brilliant way of reintroducing these characters for everyone to sort of Duke off against. That had their respective of, oh, yeah, this was an impactful, emotional scene because the games have to be emotional for someone. Otherwise, why do we care about watching them?

(39:32):
Yep.
They don't have, like, plot stakes, so they have to have, like, thematic stakes for everyone. Like, that's why they are a thing for this all besides the fact that they're dangerous. So that's all fucking brilliant. And then when Bob, who is the smart one, figures out a way to, like, literally restart reality, which is, like, classic fucking, like, Marv Wolfman shit.
Yeah. Marv Wolfman. Oh, mister Crisis on infinite earths himself writing everybody as a superpowered badass, resetting the universe at the end. That's so out of character, right?

(40:01):
Look, then we get all the toys put back because we get young Enzo. So now Matrix is just, like an add on for the series now. And then we get the goddamn pirates of Penzance. The modern major general parody scene at the very end. They could have made that way less funny than they did. They went out of their way to have the mainframe players recap everything in the funniest goddamn fashion possible.

(40:26):
I really appreciate the recap. I mean, like, I watched it before I even watched the season, because case was like, oh, like, if you don't want to watch the whole series, you can just watch this. And I did, and that's why I went back and tried to watch the full series.
I love that whole summary. And it's so funny how they keep, like, anytime they cover, like, a particularly painful moment from season three, it cuts to the audience of, like, matrix visibly reacting, like, emotionally damaged. And I'm like, stop hurting my boy. The season's over.

(40:57):
And then we got all the photos, and everything's great. Everything is alphanumeric, except there's a couple dangling plotlines. So we introduced the Damon thing in this season, but we also introduced the gigabyte thing in season two. And those are the two big things that are kind of addressed in this season.
Yeah, the thing is like, yes, there's stuff that could have been covered in season four and was sort of. But they didn't have to. I never questioned that the show ended at season three.

(41:24):
Season three was fine to be the ending. Let's just be clear about that one.
Yeah, it ends in a really good note.
And they were good enough at being like, oh, they've been having all these off screen adventures that I could just believe. Like, oh, yeah. They're like, we gotta save Bob so we can stop Damon. Well, we saved Bob, so then I guess they stopped Damon. The end. Like, I could have just assumed that was what happened.

(41:44):
Do you know what the kill count of matrix is versus viruses? Like, I will say one thing that is a little bit weird is that he does spare megabyte at the end of that fight.
Okay, it's only weird because of season four, but please go ahead.
I don't think actually season four is what makes it weird because I always felt it was weird just watching it, which is that he has killed way too many viruses that have legitimately been a huge problem for him. And we've established the type of code you are can be a thing. He doesn't have that relationship with hexadecimal to really shift his opinion on this whole thing. Like, I appreciate that he has concern about sentient being's life. I think that is good, and I think that makes season four bad. But it's also, he is very clear that megabyte has done so much terrible stuff to him and to the system and everything, and is so goddamn dangerous that it is a little bit weird that he doesn't just finish it.

(42:36):
I guess I love that moment so much.
Only because, like, don't see the contradiction, because there is this innate coding difference between them all. And he doesn't have a bob sequence of being like, no. The arguments about hexadecimal with Daemon in season four is a way more compelling thing that I think that matrix would have responded to. I just don't think he ever had that scene in season three that would make him be like, oh, all life is sacred.

(43:02):
Here's the thing. You're not wrong. I think the main thing that I liked about that scene, even though it is a little bit of, like, this person will mow down hundreds and hundreds of minions and then come to the actual bad guy and be like, no, if I kill you, I'll be just like you. But the thing is that is Matrix's arc in this entire season, is that he was like, oh, little Enzo was weak and couldn't win so I'm going to way overshoot the target and become this absolute nightmare. And then he kind of had to ratchet it back, and I think it was like killing Megabyte would have been a megabyte move to do. And I can see for his personal character development him having to hold back on that decision.

(43:35):
And what I like about that decision is that he makes it in complete isolation. Andrea sees it happen, but he doesn't see her and be like, oh, maybe I shouldn't stab him in the face with this trident. He makes that decision independently. And then she rocks up and is like, I approve of this decision. But the thing about the morality of deleting viruses is that the show itself becomes inconsistent once season four starts and they establish that Bob is the exception to the Guardians and not the rule, which I don't like very much, because in season one and two, the vibe. Cause Bob is the only guardian we meet, really. So the vibe is like, Bob must be representative in general of what guardians are kind of like.

(44:08):
And there's a bit in one of the episodes where megabyte gets stuck in a game and he's in a tar pit, literally sinking, and he's gonna die. And Bob is like, I'm gonna go rescue him. And they're like, are you kidding me? We rescue virus? And he's like, I guess I can't go against my programming. And it's like, okay, so Bob's programming to rescue people is presumably a guardian thing. And then in season four, they very suddenly start being like, oh, Bob, your radical ideas about not shooting all viruses in the face are super weird. And it's like, no, that's not right. Because in season three, the fact that matrix was constantly shooting viruses in the face was shown to be, like, an unhealthy coping mechanism that he developed and not very guardian of him.

(44:50):
I think that would be the argument if the Guardian code specifically prevented lethal action, that I think would make that more of a compelling case. I just don't feel that, like, they have sold me at the spot of the fight, and the fight is so cathartic and worth it. Like, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with this fight and even that ending. Like, I can see how you're like, I can see why you take it that way. And, like, then next episode, we also get the equivalent fight where he fights the demon thing that cut out his eye, and he kills it, no hesitation, because it's not a sentient thing. So it's not like he goes soft in that scenario.

(45:24):
It's just like, it does feel like this is a moment where we're conceding to, like, more of the child fiction that the show has roots in, which is the only bummer on that one, because, again, we just didn't see a scene where either Bob or, like, his guardian code or anything was the thing he was at odds with throughout the season. While he does see himself as a renegade, again, it doesn't really fucking matter. The show is fucking perfect. Yeah, we're talking about, like, yeah, we're talking about, like, towards infinite on a 99.9999 exponentially curve right here. Like, we're talking about. Well, that's why it's like, a 0.1 repeater, that it's not like, that perfect.

(46:00):
Yeah, but, like, I'll defend that moment to the death. I absolutely love Matrix's entire arc, and I love where he ends the arc in a very, like. Like, he's still an incredibly badass person, but he's a little bit less internally tormented about it, which is why I was immediately miffed with season four. Because part of what they didn't know what to do with Matrix about is that they, like, ratcheted his character development back half a season to the point where, like, he's at his absolute most angry and aggressive and shoot first, ask questions never. And they just. It's like he's a caricature of his former characterization. And he's so layered in season three. Like, he's not complicated, but he is layered. And then in this one, they're just like, oh, he's big and loud. He shoots things with gun and missile. And he's mean.

(46:42):
Right?
He is really mean. Season four, he's, like, mean to Bob.
Which is, like, the one person aside from dot who he should never be mean to because that's his hero.
He's insecure, is a big part of it in a way that he is not in season three. Like, even at his, like, biggest moments like that, again, he can be, like, sad boy when, like, you know, parental authority figure, like, speaks out to him. But, like, he knows his capabilities. He's never, like, trying to prove himself to not be young Enzo anymore in the same way. And it's even worse because he fucking fought megabyte, indented him with one punch.

(47:14):
Yeah.
Like, he's so bad. All the vindication he ever needed has already happened at this point. So here's my general thoughts about the two movies for season four. So daemon rising, four episodes, I think all the beats are right. I think that like, the general structure of what were going to see with some sort of, like, super virus plays out about the way that it needed to play out. All things considered, I think that the quality of writing has gone down tremendously. Like, just from the point where Bob responds, where it's like, we have to help Enzo fight the Guardians. He's like, guardians. Like, he. He fucking knew. That's the entire, like, that's just a.

(47:52):
Plot hole at that point. There are many of them in this.
It is absurd that he wouldn't be aware. Now, look, in terms of all the things they needed to downplay the level of competency that they already had, because, like. Like, look, mouse is the greatest hacker, as we've established. They have hexadecimal on their side, who is a magneto style or other kind of, like, just full on Caster villain.

(48:15):
She's a little scarlet witch.
Yeah, yeah. Also Scarlet witch, but also, like, Superman. Like, the fight with daemon that we get later on is very much a men of steel kind of fight or man of steel kind of fight.
That was pretty rad, to be honest. Yeah, they didn't need to give us that, but they did.
It's real goddamn good. And, like, her power levels is absurd on purpose. She's supposed to be, like, transforming, and she's hilarious. Also.

(48:36):
So funny. Hex is the best part of any scene she's in.
We've got Bob, for sure, fused with.
Glitch, which is, like, implied to be super powerful, even though the main thing that we see him do is create portals. But portals are important because we're talking about inter dimensional warfare effectively here or Internet warfare.
Yeah, there we go. Internet systems of some kind.

(48:57):
We've got matrix, who is super badass. We've got Andrea, who's super badass and incompetent to a level of, like, absurdity.
Yeah. They're just shipping them off to be super badass elsewhere because they're too badass for mainframe now.
Right. Everyone needs to either get nerfed or, like, pulled off to the side because they're just, like, too goddamn good. And so, like, having hexadecimal overuse her powers and then be converted into a sprite is effectively fine in terms of, like, the beats. And having Bob have the glitch merge fail is also effectively fine. I think that makes a lot of sense in terms of, like, well, if you need to power, that's a way to do it. Him being like, what? The Guardians is so goddamn dumb.

(49:36):
Zachary.
Okay. There are, like, several things in this season slash movie where I was like, that's just incorrect. And Bob gets a little bit of them. Cause that moment where, like, he knows he got the info dump, like, in season three, he's like, don't worry. We'll stop megabyte, and then we'll deal with that whole Damon situation you filled me in on off screen. Cause we didn't need to see it.
If you know who Daemon is, you know she's controlling the Guardians and that they're her main shock troops. Like that's like knowing that there's the emperor but not knowing there's the empire.

(50:05):
Right.
I think the only read is that he might not have realized that the specific bad guys that were chasing them were guardians. But that's poor dialogue writing at that point. And then the other thing, like, so little Enzo, he showed up. This is kind of a fun little bit of contrivance. At the end of season three, it's like, oh, matrix icon was in the wrong mode. So the computer was like, there's no Enzo here. Let's reboot him from his zero one.

(50:28):
Backup because they're saving all the characters who died. Like, everyone who killed is being backed up, which is great. Like, it's the whole, like, reset. So that all the toys are being put back in the box.
Yeah. But it also kind of felt like they were like, well, now we don't have any kid appeal characters, but we can just throw in season one Enzo again. And we know it's season one Enzo because he's got his number on his shirt. And then. Yeah, and then there's. There's a few things that just happened in this season where I was like, that's incorrect because this is season one Enzo. And the most annoying of them was dot and her big plan being like, enzo, I want you to go into that game and put your icon in game sprite mode. And it's like this Enzo can't do that because this Enzo never met Andrea. And unless you off screen gave his icon the power to do that, which has never been established, I think that.

(51:16):
They establish it when they figure out how Andrea can reboot. It seems that at that point, they all have the ability to go game sprite mode. Enzo didn't have that power before that point. He just, like, Andrea just was a game sprite. And then all of a sudden, they had the ability to go into gamesprite mode. And I think mouse figures it out, and they just spread that info well.
But that feels like something that they probably should have said, because it's not clear.

(51:42):
And more importantly, doesn't have glitch. He doesn't have Andrea with him. Like, Andrea is a game sprite. He's able to save anyone through this thing. He's got hack and slash, which, like, look, I love their redemption arc throughout this whole thing. Like, they are bumbling idiots in a way that I'm like, no, but you're good boys. Like, I'm fine with all that.
Yeah, they're fine.
It is true that it's like, well, how is he gonna survive the games? Like, yeah, he's got frisket, but like, hack and slash do not andrea make.

(52:07):
No. Also, we spent the entire previous season establishing how horribly tragic it is that Enzo became matrix and then dot. Her plan is like, I'm gonna make Enzo do that again on purpose this time. Yeah, I don't think dot would ever willingly do that, but sorry, that icon thing really bothered me. Cause the implication I always got from Enzo andrea is that, like, their icons were kind of sharing code in some way. Cause we'd never seen that he could do that before that. But when he did it, my read on it when of course I was a Wii one was like, oh, yeah. Cause they kind of had, like, a little mutual download thing to give her icon the ability to, like, be like his. I don't know.

(52:42):
I have, like, a scene like that though. I don't know. It doesn't really matter. Like, one thing that does bug me is that he's always in game sprite mode throughout the entirety of the season.
Yeah, that feels really risky. Like, what if a game comes down and he just gets yo for a while?
It's very strange and, like, they never talk about it and, like. Cause it was like, very on purpose. Every time he changes his sprite icon in season three, like, every single time matters, including when he shows off how he can do it. It. So that it. So that it matters when Enzo is.

(53:08):
So it's set wrong. Yeah.
Or rather young Enzo is, like, rebooted in this season. He's just always in game sprite mode. Except for, like, when he goes into a game, he switches it back and then transforms. Or he has the one moment where it matters where he goes back into Guardian mode and, like, clears out the daemon virus, which I think is a good scene there. But it's just like, why is he always fucking in this mode? Like, he. It is very specific why he goes into that mode. Mode.

(53:32):
I mean, realistically, the reason why he's in that mode in season three is so he can be infected while he's in game sprite mode and then he can just, boop. And then he's in Guardian mode and it fixes it immediately, but it's just always that way.
And, like, he has several games where he does it and then just goes right back. Like, have one scene where he has to explain it or where he has to travel that way. This will get into, like, my pitches for, like, what we're talking about is that, like, daemon rising is just poorly written.

(53:55):
Like, yes.
The drama that they're facing, the tension that they have, like, the call outs to, like, stuff. It's annoying, but it does set up, like, all the flashbacks in this. I actually rather like, I like seeing kilobyte turn into gigabyte and having them.
Get split into, well, yeah, it's kind of cool. But the thing I mentioned with season three and season one and two, Bob and Megabyte just being very, like, professional enemies. Like, they just don't like each other. They just want the other one to stop. The idea that they. They added that Bob now has a tragic backstory dead mentor thing where he came to mainframe in the first place because he was tracking the virus that killed his partner, and then he just decided to have wacky shenanigans and a guitar duel with him later. It makes season one retroactively make no sense. It's like whenever they try and do a prequel that's a darker tone than the lighthearted original version of a long running series. If this retroactive makes the original thing not make any sense for the characters involved, that's not good.

(54:56):
And, like, they really make those flashbacks as tragic as possible. And, like, we know the stuff about Dot and Enzo's dead dad was, like, classic because they mentioned it in season two a little bit awkwardly, just kind of really quickly ramming in the exposition.
It's strange how optimistic everything is in season one when they lay the seeds of, like, oh, also, like, literally a city or adjacent city is all dead.

(55:19):
Yeah, yeah. There's a reason why lost angles is just over there exploded like that. But the idea that, like, oh, Bob and first met and she immediately assumes that he blew up the city is like, I just don't feel like this would result in the dynamic we have in season one between this trifecta of characters. And I don't think it was necessary to give kilobyte megabyte this backstory. And I don't think it was necessary to start adding in this thing about, like, oh, Bob has this radical theory that you can redeem viruses and reprogram them to be good, because that, again, it contradicts the way they've previously been written, his kind of mend and defend characterization.

(55:58):
And they sort of flanderize Bob in this season by making him kind of a straw pacifist where everyone else is kind of like, we should just be deleting all of our problems, and he's like, no, guys. What if I instead talked to them, even though they're virally corrupted by a supervillain virus? And it doesn't matter. But, like, he's so smart. In the previous seasons, he'll be goofy, especially seasons one and two. But especially in season three, all of his calls are correct, and his long shots. There was a kind of powerful moment where he immediately figures out, oh, no, this is the problem. And it's too time consuming for him to explain, so he immediately gives an order that doesn't sound like it makes any sense. And Matrix is like, Bob, you're tired. Let me handle this.

(56:35):
And he's like, no, I know what I'm doing. And then in season four, Bob is just making consistently stupid decisions. And he's never proven right, except that hex, who would have already done the correct thing before she got spritified because she's been in love with him since season one, does the correct thing, and then it's like, see, hexadecimal did a good thing. So viruses aren't bad. And the way that they kind of expand the Guardians in this specific season, because it's very guardian centric, just by virtue of the supercomputer and Daemon being posted up there, it makes Bob feel like he's not representative of the Guardian collective as a whole. It makes him feel like he's this weird, pacifistic wild card, and not just indicative, you know? Again, he's very much a green Lantern.

(57:19):
And one of the most fun things about when they have, like, heroic Green Lanterns is like, all green lanterns are kind of like that. You know, we meet other Green Lanterns. They're kind of like our guy.
Yeah, they just.
They add this personal edge to the conflict between Bob and Megabyte that has never been there in any previous season. And then they lean really hard on that in my two bobs, and it sucks. It's awful. It's the worst part of it.

(57:41):
That's the thing.
Game.
And rising is, like, the beats are about right, but the scenes are poorly written for how we get through it all. And, like, every single thing I'm like, you could have just had a better scene than the one that you wrote. I like seeing killer just because I like. Like, the gigabyte episode was, like, one I really liked.
I love Gigabyte as an episode, but.
I liked it, and I wasn't really bothered by it, I guess, is the biggest point on that one. And, like, I think I agree with you about, like, all the things it does. It's just, like, the season one and two dynamics is less important to me because it was, like, a show I only, like, tuned into occasionally for.

(58:11):
Yeah.
So, like, I think we're all in agreement on Daemon Rising. My two bobs, I think, will be in agreement on this one. But here's my, like, hot take, which is that it has the exact same problem that Halo two has, which is that the cliff is not high enough for such a hanger. Like, it feels like we're short an episode, not a movie.
Yeah, they really drag it out.

(58:31):
Megabytes. Like, prepare yourself for the hunt. It feels like one more episode. It does not feel like, here. Here is going to be a four episode sequence that we're going to watch because of all the craziness that Megabyte is about to go through on this one.
Yeah, they just have too many ways to get out of there at this point. Like, we'll just pile into a gamecube and be fine, apparently. Whatever. What's he gonna do?
Honestly, it's also, like, just from, like, a human relationship, I honestly, like, okay, forget about character assassination. It's there. Like, just from, like, dot, we're gonna call him glitch Bob, because, like, that's what they're calling him. Glitch Bob is basically on the verge of death in the hospital, and she decides to go forward with a wedding.

(59:17):
It's insane. It's.
There's. It's mean. That's the worst part of it. Every time I watch season four, it makes me retroactively have a harder time enjoying the rest of the show because all these characters who are so compassionate towards each other lose their minds. They start acting like they're nightmare versions from the prisoner episode, where they're just being needlessly cruel and callous to one another.

(59:38):
You couldn't wait till he, like, either woke up or, like, I. Like, I literally, like, I took a break right after, like, her being like, let's get married. Like, I turned off the series, and I called my fiance, and I was just like, yo, this. But this guy's body isn't even cold, and she's marrying someone else. What's up? And he was like, what? Because that's what I said. I didn't explain what I was talking.

(01:00:01):
About or, oh, my God.
Like, I was so mad. I was so mad. And again, I'm not as enthusiastic about this series as the two of you, but, like, Dutt is a pretty compassionate character. Like, it's season four that all. There's so much about her that's just thrown out the window. Like, you know. Yeah, but she was just, like, even her thing where she was like, oh, yeah, but, you know, yes, I've been with glitch Bob, and he did save our lives, and we have been through something, but the other guy is Bob.

(01:00:36):
You know, Bob.
And I'm like, what?
What? Yeah.
So we should talk a little bit about the meta of this all. So just so that we're clear about this one aspect of this. So when season three of reboot happened, because of the gap in time between the seasons, the voice actor for Bob was not available. And this gets into the whole, like, the fact that he's out of the majority of the season. And so it's the same actor as Cheetor from Beast wars, who comes in and takes over.

(01:01:05):
It's also the same actor as one of the early dubs of Goku, which makes watching that dub weird as fuck for me.
Anyway, so he takes over as Bob. And so for season three. And, like, I didn't even notice it because, like, the circumstances are all so different. We are away from him for so long. But apparently there was a bit of an outcry, like, oh, it's a different voice actor. And so for the. My two bobs, they bring back the original voice actor for what passes as the original Bob. And then when the whole sequence where, like, the deception is revealed and Bob is restored to his original form, like, he's also restored to his original voice actor at that point. So that's the meta that's going on in there. And so when they say, like, he looks like the original Bob, he even sounds like him. It's because, like, there is actually that voice actor difference.

(01:01:48):
Yeah, but it's. It's so frustrating because the entire season doesn't work if even one of the other characters has, like, basic human compassion for GlitchBob, and they. They kind of, like, speed through that. There's a bit where he's like, at Owl's with Andrea and little Enzo, andrea's like, I don't care if you're a copy. And little Enzo's like, and I am a copy, and I'm fine with that. And Bob's like, yeah, it doesn't matter if I'm a copy. And then they just pretend like that scene never happened. And as soon, like, glitch Bob is in the fucking hospital. And Andrea's like, well, that sucks. Anyway, time to get bridesmaid and go to a stag night. And I was like, not a single again. Matrix is my boy.

(01:02:24):
So the part of this season that offended me the most is when real Bob, quote, unquote, is like, oh, he's bad. You know, I gotta tell dot. Matrix is like, no, don't tell dot. I've never seen her this happy. We can't bring down the mood by letting her know that the bob I sacrificed my entire childhood to go into the web and save might be dying on a hospital bed right now. That would really bring down the vibes. She's like, no, that's not my boy.

(01:02:48):
All of it. Like, it's so weird. Like, there's even moments where, like, dot is like, I don't know why glitch Bob is acting weird. I'm sorry. You had a whole, like, you asked him to marry you. Like, you proposed, man.
Yeah. You changed your mind as soon as the handsomer version of him showed up. Also, bad taste. To think original Bob is better looking than glitch Bob, but that's, you know, whatever.

(01:03:10):
I'm so sad that when they resolve the whole thing, they don't update his hair to look more like his, like. Like, glitch bob form.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, he gets a haircut right away, I guess.
I have a meta analytical thought. It really feels like season four is trying to reset what happened in season three. Like, at the end of season three, mainframe is restored. That's great. But there's this huge feeling of, like, everyone has changed and grown. Like, they say that over and over again. Like, we've all changed. We've all grown. It's different now. Like, the thing is, like, if you look at season three and you're like, what would have happened if they hadn't saved mainframe before the system restart? The computer would have crashed, and the user would have rebooted from a save, and everyone would have gotten downloaded back in their season one version anyway. You would have had, like, a little bit of a time loop. The only benefit to doing all that work is that everyone retains their characterization and memories of this complicated season.

(01:04:00):
And then season four rocks up, and Dodd is like, it sucks that every time I look at this guy, I remember all that stuff that went through and all those character development things, and I just wish I didn't need to think about that. And there's something interesting that they could have explored there, which is getting into the realm of, like, how would we fix this? But, like, there really is an interesting theme. As soon as she says, like, when I look at Glitchbob, all I remember is, you know, season three and how scary that was. But when I look at original Bob, I remember the glory days of season one and two when everything was chunky looking, but the days were bright and things were chill and the stakes were really low. The status quo was ironclad. And it's like, okay, there's something there.

(01:04:36):
But I really don't like how with Bob specifically. They're like, man, when I look at your season one design, I really like it better than the version that I fought alongside who saved the entire system. And they don't pull this shit with Enzo. That's the thing that drives me up the wall, is like, this is the exact same situation.
Yeah. I keep on being like, which do you choose? Which is such a weird way to even approach this whole thing.

(01:04:59):
Also, the romantic subplot was always the weakest link of the writing and reboot. And the benefit of it is that it was always a very background thing. It was just kind of an implied mutual grown up crush where it's like they kind of got something. They care about each other. Tablet password is guardian. That's cute. Enzo ribs her for it, whatever, that kind of thing. But it was never like these earnest declarations of love. And I never had the impression that it was going to end with a fairy tale wedding. And it's like, oh, we got to get Bob back from the web because we all like Bob and we miss him and, like, yeah, dot's feeling it a little more than everybody else, but we all care about him as a person.

(01:05:35):
And also the actual good romance is the Andrea and Enzo relationship. And that one, it's so sweet and it's, like, so. It's so warm and, like, in chaste to a certain degree, but at the same time, like, there and then, like.
Whatever else, it's still.
It still works. And they fight, but. But they work. Like, it's such an effective relationship. And, yeah, we don't see most of the writing on the establishing shots of the relationship. We don't see them come together, and I think we're better for it. Like, we can believe this relationship without having to, like, you know, see it all versus, like, dodd and Bob. Like you said, it's a work crush where they can't really, like, quite talk about it because of, like, extenuating circumstances. But, like, you know, it's fine. The goddamn wedding is so insane. Like. Like, literally, like, they all behave so crazily about this whole thing. Like, they're all like, oh, we have to go through all, like, a stag night to watch. Sure. It's a cute joke with Enzo. Like. Like, little Enzo having to plan a stag party.

(01:06:34):
A party. Yeah.
But, like, the rest of it is just, like, it's pointless and crazy and, like, the front half of jump the shot, three quarters of the my two bob's arc could have been two episodes, and it would have been fine. And then we could have had this whole thing, like, concluded instead of ending on a cliffhanger that is not compelling enough to be like, man, I hope the show comes back just so we can get the end of this. It's easier just to cut out season four.

(01:06:59):
Yeah, it's so easy. Cause season three has a perfect ending, and you can just be like, and then they beat Damon. The end.
Poochie died on his way, right?
Yeah, she tripped or hex got bored and just killed her one day. It's fine. But, like, what bugs me about this is they are intentionally highlighting how unfair this whole situation is to glitch Bob. Like, they're really driving home. Like, we're sympathetic to him from basically minute one of season four, intentionally so. And they're intercutting the shots of the wedding preparation and everyone else having a good time with him. Like, dying on the operating table. It's like, okay, so that's. They're doing this on purpose, but, like, this only works. This only happens this way if everybody else gets their brains cranked down to a. Like, there's an episode in season one where the clock speed of the system gets slowed down and everyone gets stupid. And it's called Enzo the smart. And it kind of feels like that's what we're watching again.

(01:07:49):
It's so weird. Such a weird.
It's a textbook idiot plot. It wouldn't happen if everyone in the series wasn't suddenly acting like an idiot. And it's worse for Dot. Like, she kind of gets a little bit character assassinated in the first half of season four because suddenly her only motivation is, like, one of these nulls is my dad. Let's figure out how to let him talk. And nothing else matters to her. And because she keeps being dismissive of everybody else that makes Matrix and mouse run off on an ill conceived plan to single handedly assassinate a super virus that's controlling an entire system of warriors. It's fine. That part I understand them being stupid about. That's in character for them, but it's not in character for to let that happen.

(01:08:24):
Right?
And then as soon as this one happens, like, every thought in Dot's head that isn't about which of these two nearly identical boys do I want to put my mouth on. Then she stops thinking about absolutely anything else, and everyone else in the show starts enabling her, and it's just really. It makes her, like, just really deeply unlikable. And it's hard for me to, like, accept that because I like her so much in season three. Watching season four always puts me in a bad mood because it's like the characters I love are nowhere to be seen, and these ghouls wearing their faces are making them look bad.

(01:08:57):
Yeah, it's really like, it's also so weird. I feel like almost that whole episode where people are like, who are you choosing? Who are you gonna choose? Who are you gonna choose? Feels like a wasted episode to me. Like, I literally felt like, oh, this is a weird waste of time. Like, I don't understand why this is happening. I also didn't understand why people were, like, not more suspicious. Like, I was like, yeah. I was like, so this guy comes out of the void, and, like, one person I don't even remember who was. Was like, are we sure he's really Bob? Right?

(01:09:31):
Like, I think it was glitch Bob. He was like, are we Hundo P? That's me.
Like, you know? And then, like, everyone's like, of course he is. He looks exactly like him. He even sounds like him. Of course. Like, I'm like, what?
It's, like, so weird that we don't see any of the scenes of them being like, no, it's definitely Bob. Like, all the tests that they would have to run on him.
Yeah.
Nothing.
Like, also, like, this. Bob is bad at games. I feel like that's a huge red flag. He doesn't really help at all at any of these cases. Like, I mean, it's kind of cute when he's like, hey, Matrix, you're a renegade. You should cheat at this game. It's like, that's funny. But also, I remember season one and two, and Bob is consistently really good at games. That's his whole fucking deal, right?

(01:10:12):
And no one. No one. No one is suspicious.
No one is suspicious.
So, strange question.
Did either of you watch farscape?
Yes, I've been catching a few episodes of it. It's one of the Pluto tv channels I watch sometimes.
Are you familiar with, like, the later season development with Crichton?
Yes.
No, this is a minor spoiler.

(01:10:33):
Feel free to tell me. I don't care.
So Crichton gets duplicated, and then, like, goes off on two different ships. And so when things happen and the crew all comes back together, like, the relationship of people with the different Crichtons is weird because they have all this, like, shared history with, like, one Crichton but not the other.
Right.
It feels like everyone should be, like, kind of going off of the fact that they have the history with Glitchbob, but instead, they go the other way, which makes less sense. And it plays this whole thing of, again, the three episodes that lead into this whole arc of my two bobs should have been two. And it's just way too much time spent on this. Like, for example, the Pokemon game is too fucking long.

(01:11:17):
Also, it looks really ugly. You cut it, you lose. Nothing.
Like, you could have cut a lot of it. You could basically, if you cut from the point where he beats the original three that pop out, and it's like, he's got 150, and then you don't cut back to them until it's like, that was a lot. Jesus Christ. Like, would have been fine.
Computer. Jesus.
Like, you cut back to, like, the game over thing, and it's like, we did it. Enzo, that was great. I can't believe you cheated. That was a good. It's a spot where actually tell not show would have worked better.

(01:11:44):
Yeah, that would have been funny.
Yeah, it's a noodle incident.
Exactly. And the show's really good with noodle incidents. Matrix andrea's entire shared backstory in the games is a noodle incident, and we never see it. And that's correct. Like, yeah, everyone acts very stupid. Nobody's correctly suspicious, and everybody is just really dismissive of glitchbob. And also, in terms of just the overall weakness of the writing, all this is characterization stuff. And Damon was also weak on characterization. But the beats of the plot were there. They just kind of drop inconvenient plot points from my two bobs, mostly the ending of daemon rising. Glitchbob is literally dying. He just overtaxed his powers in a huge way. And then as soon as we cut back in, he's fine, because if he wasn't fine, dot might feel a little bit bad about completely abandoning him.

(01:12:27):
Like, that's the only reason that suddenly his, like, life threatening fusion condition is no longer at all a problem. And he just wants to unfuse from glitch. So that dot thinks he's pretty again. And it's just like, yeah, it's so weird.
I don't want to go too far into some of my notes on this one because, like, this is getting into pitch territory for, like, things I would do.

(01:12:48):
Well, we should maybe go on commercial break and then come back and pitch. I think. I think maybe we're ready, because I think we're ready to build the pitch.
I think.
So there might still be some complaining in it, if that's okay.
Oh, absolutely.
No, no, that's gonna happen.
So my two bob's arc has, like, moments that are good, as with all the things in season four, but for the most part is just disappointing and causes us to seethe with rage, I believe is the. The term that red used.

(01:13:17):
That was what I was going with. Yeah. When I started rewatching season four, I was like, I've only watched this once because the first time I watched through it, I was. Was so disappointed and angry, I never wanted touch it again, but I have to rewatch it as research. So we're just gonna. We're just gonna do it. And I was like. I was like, I don't know which outcome I'm dreading more, that this is exactly as bad as I remember it being or that I've been needlessly harsh on it, and it's actually okay. And, like, initially, I was like, there are good parts of it, but the more I thought about it, the more I was like, no, I was right the first time. This is awful. This is a travesty of writing, characterization.

(01:13:48):
Yeah. So why don't we allow for us to all go inside of a game and level a few cycles, or whatever the term they use, while we shout out one of the great shows on our network. And when we come back, we'll have leveled up into full on, just call me Aiken kind of mode so that everyone knows that we mean business. When I look at you with my one good eye, video games are a unique medium. They can tell stories, immerse us in strange, fantastic worlds, blur the very boundaries of our reality. But at the end of the day, video games are fun, whatever fun is to you. I'm Jeff Moonan. And I am Matt, aka Stormageddon. And on fun and games, we talk about the history, trends, and community of video games.

(01:14:34):
It's a celebration of all the games we play and all the fun we find within them. And there's so many more games out there. So we hope you'll share in that conversation with us. Fun and Games podcast with Matt and Jeff. Find us on certainpov.com or wherever you get your podcasts and happy gaming. And we're back. So were having a hard time not, like, kind of getting into pitch territory on this one. Can I take a first swing? I know. I know. I normally have a rule. We have the rule that I can't go before Sam, but, like, can I just, like, throw mine out, please?

(01:15:02):
Absolutely, you can, because I will. You know what? Listen, I'll tell you my pitch right now. Don't make a season four. There you go.
That's a fair one. Fair response, because season three ends so perfectly where it's like, yeah, there's a couple, like, threads that we haven't gotten into. Who's this daemon? What was up with gigabyte? Whatever. What was that black thing?
They could be noodle incidents, too. We don't care. Yeah, we already got that result. It was a web creature. We know this. It turned into the big thingy, and then they did the. It's the whole. It's Weinbach gets shot in the sky.

(01:15:29):
They continue to go on forever in your imagination, and it's fine.
Yeah, it's fine.
It's good. You ended on a musical number. Everyone's happy. We are good. We are good.
A literal photo finish.
Daemon rising. Most of my notes are just like, God damn it. It's just better. Writing. Like, matrix is a petulant child instead of a scarred warrior. Like, he should be competent. Like, he has literally faced his greatest fears, both of them, and, like, overcame them. There's no better therapy. He does not need it at this point. Like, he's allowed to just have done his arc. Like, he does not need to have a new arc of being, like, worse.

(01:16:04):
It's the old arc. I have a very specific thing to add to that, if that's okay.
Yeah, go for it.
The fact that his entire arc is. Oh, he's a virus hater. He's like, we should delete viruses. And it's like, you literally, like, you complained about this, but he literally solved that at the end of season three when he was like, I'm not gonna stab megabyte in the face. And then when hex is like, virus hater, learn from this. It's like, oh, is that what he was supposed to be doing? Maybe just get rid of that part entirely. Cause it's stupid, and he already fixed it.

(01:16:31):
No, totally. Again, this is just one where, like, it just is not written well and you could just do better. Like, my biggest thought in terms of, like, actual changes is, like, first of all, why does mouse go with Matrix? I get it. Because of surfer. Like, yes, sure. But if she gets possessed and, like, they know they're going up against the possessing kind of force, like, then the one thing they had going for them, which was that mainframe had really good coding, is gone. And, like, I feel like she should have been, like, trying to be harder to. To easily capture with that one.

(01:17:02):
Yeah. If she'd stayed behind the fireball, Damon's entire plan fails. She's the y two k bug. If she's not in place, then y two k, it doesn't work.
But if they're going to escape, why not have them escape inside a game so that they can try to pop up in a system that Damon can't predict? That would be a fun way for them to escape as opposed to whatever the weird rules they have for being on the net in this, where it's like, oh, they took down the tower. We're back online. As if the default state is being online versus not having online access. Like, I don't even know where to get on that one. But again, Damon rising. I think the beats are all right. Aside from just better writers, I don't have a lot of notes on this one, but my two bobs, like, jesus Christ. So the biggest thing, I think, is that glitch should serve as the arbiter for who is Bob way earlier.

(01:17:48):
Like, that idea should be thrown out there. And so that should be the reason why that glitch, Bob, wants to separate from glitch. Like, in addition to the fact that it's failing and he's dying. Like, he doesn't need the dot stuff to be the proof on this one. Like, there's a lot of reasons not to be connected with glitch anymore. And one of them could be like, well, we can't even tell because Glitch is connected with this. With this thing. We can't even scan him the way we can scan this guy because he's fused with his key tool, and this guy scans perfectly as Bob. That allows for at least, like, that situation to be a part of the whole thing, which is that as long as glitch is fused with Bob, they don't even have the ability to prove which one is which.

(01:18:24):
That sets it up there. So that the scene where glitch goes to the mega Bob character and it's like, oh, so he is the original and that's the copy. Like, no one has ever said those fucking words at this point. Like, no one has set up that idea.
Yeah, that wasn't established at any point. It is a good, powerful moment. It just needs planting to make it pay off.
Exactly. Put some planting in these two episodes. And I think that you can end the second episode with. My thought is instead of it being the wedding, it should be like, dot and megabob, like, finally kiss or something like that. He, like, finally wins her over after this whole thing, whatever you want to do with it. And that's when GlitchBob shows back up again, having now, like, separated so that we can get that whole sequence. Like, we don't need. We don't need a full episode of their romance to, like, set this whole thing up. It outstates its welcome way too long, and we should get to that fairly decent fight between Megabyte and Bob. And it doesn't need to be in, like, a specific wedding venue. It just needs to be in the principal office.

(01:19:19):
I think I have a very core grievance with the entire way that they do Megabyte's secret plan this season in that it doesn't make any fucking sense and they know it because when they're like, why did you do this? He's like, it amused me. And then immediately goes back to his original plan to try and leave for the supercomputer. And it's like you were in the web and you had the surfer. You could have just said, hey, can you bring me to the supercomputer? I forgot something. And then you would have been out. His plan doesn't make sense. And making his villainy personal doesn't make sense for megabyte.

(01:19:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, like, I love the speech he gives because it's Tony Jay and he does such a great job. And they always write the character so smart.
Yeah, all his line deliveries are good. It's fun, except his plan is stupid and everything he's doing is dumb. And, like, also the fight is good, but they really put a focus on, like, Bob is mad this time. And then immediately after that, he's like, no, remember, I'm a straw pacifist this season. We're just gonna brainwash megabyte into being a good guy now, which is morally significantly better. And we need megabyte to point out that's morally dubious of all people.

(01:20:20):
Yeah, that line was really good, though. Wonderfully.
Yeah, I did like that. It's always great delivery from tiny J. Like, all of that part is great. And I like that episode just fine overall. And I just don't feel like the hunt itself is a worthwhile arc for, like, more than one episode. I feel like we're just feeling one more, like, ultimate confrontation of them in the principal office would have been sufficient. So I think if we compress the first three episodes into the first two episodes, we still get the fourth episode, but now as the third, and we get the fourth episode being now the hunt episode, I think that would have been great. And we can do some of this by, like, reducing game time, because I feel like that raccoon game, aside from the fact that Bob is bad at games, it's kind of mean spirited.

(01:21:01):
Like, it's got this whole, like, Star wars thing that they're making fun of Jake Lloyd, and it kind of bugs me in retrospect. And it's far enough that it wasn't timely when it came out.
Yeah. I think the thing that I really noticed in season four is that a lot of it feels like a purposeful return to the vibes of season one and two. And that includes the density of reference humor, because season three has references in it. Like, the Star Trek episode is very deep in the Star Trek stuff.

(01:21:27):
There's the sailor Moon reference, and, like.
Yeah, there's a sailor Moon reference. I haven't watched the Prisoner, but I know the prisoner episode is very intensely prisoner referenced.
And the games are always reference heavy. Like, that's always part of it.
That's always the vibe. But the plot is its own thing, and they use the references in such a way that powerful moments still have. Like, that Star Trek Episode has one of the most profoundly tragic elements in it where, like, oh, my gosh, this is a character that looks like Bob. And Matrix is almost, like, trying to delude himself into thinking, this might be Bob. He might have done it, but he kind of has to come to the conclusion that he's not. And then that guy dies as a captain Kirk reference, and it's still played as this heartbreaking tragedy, even though it's a Star Trek reference. And you're like, okay, there's something powerful there.

(01:22:06):
But, like, a lot of the reference humor in the early seasons, and it's important to note that, like, my two bobs and Damon Rising were written by the directors of the show, basically the people who directed it, but not the people who wrote season three. So it makes sense to me that they would kind of be drawn back to the status quo that the show had mostly been in and a little bit more inclined to sort of reset from the vibes from season three, because by the end of season four, we are back where were. Megabyte is in power, and he has an army of viral minions, and he is bad and dangerous, but all the good guys are on team good guy, and mainframe is normal again. It's very much season 2.1.

(01:22:41):
Right.
And that's whatever. But, like, the reference humor really starts coming thick and fast, and it just doesn't feel like it contributes anything other than, hey, look, they're in Austin Powers now. Isn't that funny? And not uncomfortably sexual for a show that I started watching when I was, like, four. I don't know. It's really boring.

(01:23:01):
Definitely.
Yeah.
That one at least had the mini me part, which was, like, fun, actually.
Hex's kiss on Hex.
Hex really fucking starts overstepping some boundaries. They do that a lot in season four because Megabyte does that to dot and, like, it's played as horror because it is horror. But also, I think megabyte, it's too classy to do that. I think that whole thing feels weird.
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

(01:23:24):
Yeah. So the Star wars references in that just felt a little bit random. It's like, oh, this is like a sonic Looney Tunes reference cartoon game. And then everyone reboots as a Star wars action figure. That's fine, I guess. Okay, cool. I think the thing is, the references in season three work if you don't know what they're referencing. And I speak from experience. Cause I didn't have a goddamn clue what they were referencing the first time I watched it. And I was like, this still makes sense. Sense to me. But there's bits of season four that I don't get because I don't know what they're referencing. It's like, whoever Andrea rebooted, as in that game, I don't know who that was. I don't know why.

(01:23:57):
They had a joke about it affecting her behavior afterwards, which has fascinating lore implications that I'm sure they didn't intend. It feels really weak, and it's just loosely held together reference humor. But then it's trying to contain a much more serious plot than they've done in any previous season, and it just doesn't work tonally. It's too much whiplash.
Yeah. Like, here's the thing. We already talked about this. The Pokemon game could have been easily cut in half and we would have been fine ultimately. While, yes, it's revealing that Bob is bad at games, that's sort of like the thing that tips off that he's not the real Bob. We get a lot of games with him. One would have been sufficient normally if Bob is present. But more importantly, if Matrix or Andrea are in a game, they've won. We know that they're fine because they are so goddamn good. But Matrix andrea have spent the majority of their life in the games winning every game they come across. In Daymond Rising, they have one point that's wrong. They actually contradict their own lore where they say you have to go and lose a game so that you can go away.

(01:24:56):
It's not actually if you lose or not. It's if you're in game sprite mode or not.
Yeah, that's not true.
You stay with the game. So, like, they could have easily. He could have just gone and won and it would have been fine. It's that he was not in game sprite mode and you can't lose and not be game sprite mode. That's the bigger part of it all.
Yeah.
So every time that Matrix or Andrea are in a game, it should be for some sort of big thematic or emotional reasons for the characters and not for plot driven ones. And for the most part, these games are too long. We don't need all this time. We could have easily accomplished all of this way faster because they're there and we know that they're going to win. That's what they do. And so we could have shaved off time that way so that you get episode one where it's like, which Bob is real. We actually see the tests. We get episode two. Bob has messed himself up trying to free himself from glitch because part of that is like the final arbitration of this whole thing and we still get the whole sequence. Returning the key tools to the Guardians.

(01:25:49):
Side note, I think it's really fucking funny that. So I don't. I don't know if this is the actual proper spelling for it, but in the subtitles, Copeland Turbo's key tool is spelled just c o p l a n d. So it's just Copland, which Guardian super computer from a movie reference kind of situation. Like, okay, well, that's a. That's funny. Was the Stallone one right? Like, all right. I don't know. Either way, it's like, yeah, they're for kunkovs and it's fun to take the piss out of them. Sometimes on this whole one, but, yeah, like, again, there wasn't enough Runway for, like, a full arc after this or for, like, a big thing. Like, the end of season two where Bob is, like, lost in the web. That's a huge fucking, like, cliffhanger on that one.

(01:26:31):
Yeah, that's a nightmare.
End of the first chunk of season three where we think that Enzo dies. That's a big fucking cliffhanger. This one's not that big a cliffhanger. This one's a continued next time cliffhanger.
This is a bad guy. They've already beaten twice, right? Yeah, once previously in this very season.
Like, I could believe that, like, megabyte is way stronger than he was before. And so he's able toss stuff around. But I kind of actually need to see, like, the metrics on this one. He just, like, tosses Matrix away and, like, Matrix. Matrix doesn't get up and, like, hit.

(01:27:02):
Him again, which is ridiculously out of character.
All kinds of out of character. But, like, also, like, really out of character in terms of the power scale. Like, Matrix is uniquely, like, a big bruiser of a hero. It's rare that we get series where we get quite the same dynamic, where Megabyte is such a big bruiser and still a bigger bruiser than, like, it'd be like a hulk versus juggernaut. Kind of like one one kind of thing.

(01:27:28):
The thing is, they can do that. They did that in the season three fight, and it was really good.
I don't need to see the fight relitigated. But what I'm saying is that it is weird that we are not seeing that Matrix is a credible threat against megabyte.
Well, that's because there's a rather telling line of dialogue in that episode where Matrix turns to Bob and says, okay, bob, this is your show.

(01:27:49):
I know.
What are you doing? That felt like the writers room was like, yeah, get out of here, you big dog. Dumb idiot. This is Bob's show now. And we made this Bob tough so he can tank getting smashed headfirst through three pillars by megabyte. So you're right. The power scaling is completely wrong. Like, the church fight is spectacular to look at. But then you're like, this is Bob. It doesn't make sense that he can do that.

(01:28:09):
Like, again, he's more Green Lantern than he was before. But it doesn't make sense.
No, it doesn't make sense. And that's what frustrates me about this, is that this previously, especially season three, the writing is all so character driven, and there's a solid plot timeline of events that the characters are going to have to react to or figure out how to get out of. But the character writing is rock solid, very granularly, like, down to individual lines of dialogue. It all feels completely correct. And you can trace everybody's arc out, and then as soon as you get to daemon rising, that all goes out the window. As soon as it becomes clear that everybody's out of character. Matrix is the most obvious because we just spent a whole season in his head, and now he's. He's just completely, like, just a caricature of his former self.

(01:28:55):
But, like, this version of Bob is also weirdly stupid and, like, focusing on things that don't make sense for him. Like, he has a consistent arc in daemon rising, which is he knows his powers are killing him and he knows if Dot knows that, she'll make him stop using them, so he's not going to tell her. That's like, the one thing that. That's happening with him in that season, and it's a thing. It kind of makes sense, especially in season two. Bob has a little bit of a twist of, like, oh, boy, an opportunity to sacrifice myself for the good of mainframe. Don't mind if I do. He does it like four times, so I get it.

(01:29:23):
But it's layered in this characterization of him that feels like a retcon that they're trying to sort of slide into place, and it doesn't line up with how he acted in season three. His season three version is not really the same character he was in season one and two because we're seeing the show from a different angle. He's not really the main character anymore. He's been haunting the narrative for a while, and when he comes back, he's almost this mythical figure. Sam, I liked when you compared him to Odysseus because that really is kind of the vibe. And Matrix says it overtly to Andrea. Like, now that Bob's here, I just know everything's gonna be okay. Like, Bob is the character that allows the story to go well, and that's how he is in season three.

(01:30:00):
He doesn't really need to, like, physically do a whole bunch, and everything he does is in character. He's still a goofball. He still doesn't know what the fuck to do with his hands when he's talking to dot. It quote s very funny and cute, but most of the time, he's just kind of playing a foundational role in the narrative and just about the one thing he does that's very like, oh, that was a really cool in character moment for Bob is when he figures out how to do the system crash thing, and he's like, okay, I don't like this plan, and I don't want to do it, but I think we have to do it.

(01:30:25):
And again, I mentioned Bob is a Trickster hero, and this is the only time we see him use that on his allies because it's like, him and Matrix both are, like, guardians, so it's like, oh, we got to get in that game and stop it. And he's like, but we shouldn't. But we're not going to do that. And he stalls Matrix just long enough to let the GameCube land. And it's clear that he's like, he's not being insincere. He's not lying, but everything he's doing has a second meaning to it because he's like, I just need to do the puppy dog eyes for a couple more nanos, and then we'll be home free. And it's a cutting character moment for him. Bob is the kind of trickster paragon that can surprise you with a plan that makes sense.

(01:31:01):
And none of that comes through in season four. Cause the character writing isn't good enough to support a character with that level of complexity.
Yeah, I mean, he mostly feels lost season four, like. Like a majority of time. Like, he just seems so bumbling. Lost.
Yeah, exactly. Like, he doesn't have a purpose.
It's really interesting. There's, like, very few moments where he seems like himself from the past. Like, it just. And listen, he's been through trauma. So, like, maybe, like, if the writing was better, lost could work.

(01:31:33):
Loss.
Lost can work. Like, what happens when you come back to a place where you're not really the same person? That could work with better writing. That's not what we have here.
Or they could live up to that thread. They briefly establish with Matrix that then goes nowhere when he's having that exact arc because he's doing these incredibly dangerous training exercises. And Andreas, like, what are you doing? It's like, the only good characterization moment he has. It's a return to form in season three, when everyone who talks about Matrix makes it clear that he's insane and the scariest person in the room. He hasn't gotten that treatment at all in this season thus far, where he's just a big, dumb idiot who usually causes more problems than he solves that moment where it's like, oh, he's terrifying. Actually. And, like, he's got nothing to do. There's no more bad guys to fight. There's no gamecubes in town. So it's just him training with the local bynum cops, and that's decent. And they kind of plant that.

(01:32:23):
Like, he doesn't know how to stop fighting, and he doesn't know how to relax. And there's this moment of open glee on his face when a gamecube starts dropping, and it's like, okay, this is an arc that could go somewhere. And then they never use it again.
Nope.
And it makes sense, too.
I love the line.
She's like, live ammo. Really?
It's just. It's so funny. I think the part I liked about that the most was when the vinyl was cop. I almost hit him that one. It's like, oh, good. Do you remember what he threatened to do to us the last time we tried not to hit him?

(01:32:53):
I do really like that he wrote damon's name on the bullet. Like, that was pretty funny. That was.
It was funny, but very unserious. I think it's like a caricature of what a badass would do. I don't know. I didn't like any of Matrix's characterization in the Daemon arc, except for the one moment, which still feels like a fundamental misunderstanding of his character, where Enzo makes him snap out of Daemon's brainwashing. Yeah. By telling him to use his hate.

(01:33:20):
So I'm torn about that scene because it is great that he is the one person who breaks Daemon's control, and I think that's really cool. And I like that the switch, the reactivation of the guardian code allows him to overcome it, because I do like that the guardian code is this weird MacGuffin for some of their immunities. Like, it feels very paladin esque in a way that I find appealing.
Yeah. And that happens early in season one, even.

(01:33:41):
Yeah. Like, the weird virus that turns molten stone. The medusa virus.
The medusa bug.
Yeah, I like that. I think that's kind of cool. And matrix having that as part of him, even if it's a thing that he tries to suppress, is a nice element there. But, yeah, like, he. You know, the scene itself is. Is like, use your hate. Let it come for you.
Yeah, that really feels like. Again. Cause he's really poorly written for most of that season, and it makes sense if the person writing him is like, oh, yeah, matrix is just a big ball of rage and hate, and he doesn't know what to do with himself when he's happy. And this feels like the culmination of that interpretation of his character of, like, Damon's making you happy. You need to stop doing that and go back to being miserable enough to fight off the brainwashing. I love the moment, but I hate the way that they're executing it. And then after that, he just goes back to being exactly the same as he was before. And right on the heels of season three, it's a very unflattering portrayal of his potential complexity.

(01:34:36):
Yeah, Flanderized is a good word for this whole season.
Yeah.
And that's the problem with the season. Not even the fact that it ends on a cliffhanger, because I could live with a cliffhanger if I had to, and that'd be like, man, that's a bummer. But it'd be like, God, that. That would be cool. Like, for years, I lived on having never seen the last episode of Ronin warriors, which unfortunately, I eventually saw the last episode of, like, it's fine.

(01:35:01):
It's just.
It wasn't as good as the one that I built up in my head because it, like, looked like all. Everyone's coming together for this one. Like, I can live with a cliffhanger and having built it up in my head and, like, then, like, Tony J. Dies and, like, we're not going to get that final stand of megabyte and, like, that's. These are all bummers. I can live with that situation. But the fact that it feels like every character is the surface level. Like, I think it makes sense that it's written by the directors. You know? Like, that season three has all the same beat success, but, like, the episodes themselves, like, the Star Trek parody episodes written by DC Fontana. Like, she's a legend as a writer of Star Trek.

(01:35:41):
Jesus. Really? That's amazing.
I know.
Wow. They really pulled out all the stops for that one.
Exactly. Like, the beats are right, and then, like, the character stuff is written so well in season four. The beats are fine.
Yeah.
If it's only eight episodes, don't have.
The cliffhanger, just accept that you're cancelled. It's fine.
Like, in that scenario. But I get it. You're trying to, like, fight for your funding. The fact that it wasn't released normally was also a big part of it because, like, I never saw it on tv. I bought the dvd to watch it because I wanted to watch reboot. It's not like season three where it, like, eventually was on Toonami. Like, eventually. Eventually it was on Toonami. But, like, long after it had been canceled. Yeah, that was a bummer there as well. This was always going to fail because it doesn't get resolved. But the fact that it's not a satisfying period in this. In this arc. After, like, season two of reboot's pretty good. Like, season one is like. Is rough. Season two is pretty good, and season three is. I keep using the word perfect because it's fucking perfect, but it is.

(01:36:38):
Yeah. I think season one, to me, is tolerable with some surprising highlights. Like, it gets good shockingly quickly. We just mentioned the medusa bug episode. That's episode four. And it gives us, oh, the characters are in a completely apocalyptic scenario and Bob needs to deal with. If he doesn't manage to find a way to trick hex into undoing her thing, mainframe is just fully doomed. Like, episode four. That's the stakes we're dealing with and do a good job of being like, hexadecimal's the most dangerous fucking thing in this entire system. She just chooses not to be a problem most of the time. And then it's a lot more like kind of dumb things and kind of like weak character writing. And then crimson binome shows up and it's like, that's fundamentally deeply important and there's really good bits in it.

(01:37:20):
And then season two starts off a little bit weak. But as soon as we get to like Andrea, I think her appearance is when it really starts just being consistently good. You stop being able to skip episodes after Andrea shows up. And then season three is a perfect season of television. And then season four is aggressively not. And it's, for me, it's like, it's almost personal because I spent years being like, man, I love reboot season three. I want to see the first few seasons and you tell me there's more reboot. No fucking way. And I watched through it and I was like, this makes me feel really bad. And retroactively, it's making me having, like, I have to fight to remember why I liked season three so much. I didn't think anything could make that happen.

(01:38:00):
And it's just because all these characters are like the way that Bob is characterized in season four. I don't know why they went to all that trouble to get him back in season three, you know? And, like, his reappearance in season three is one of the most perfect scenes in season three because as soon as he shows up with his mask on and the musical sting plays, you're like, oh, that's Bob, isn't it? That's gotta be Bob for sure. And, like, it quickly becomes clear, like, yeah, that's Bob. As soon as glitch goes to him, it's like, great, we found Bob. Good news. Then the only remaining question for the scene is he still hot? Because they're like, were just fighting degraded sprites, and they're all super ugly looking, but, like, Bob's wearing a mask, but is he still handsome?

(01:38:40):
Tell me he's still handsome. And, like, I know they did that on purpose. Cause when he takes off the mask and we see him from behind, everyone briefly reacts in horror, and then he turns to face the camera. And good news, he's still handsome. And they're like, oh, thank goodness. She's still fine.
Not handsome enough to get married, though.
Dot has terrible taste. Ugh.
Still bitter. Go on.
Yeah, but that's what I like about that scene, is that we figure out so quickly, that's gotta be Bob. But we almost don't wanna believe it. Cause we've been waiting. He's been gone only ten episodes, but they've been ten really long episodes. The amount that he's been haunting the narrative really makes this moment feel as profound as it is. If this were just a character that they'd found, it's like, okay, whatever, cool. Like, they've been through so much, and this was the entire point, and he's there. He finds them. He even saves them a little bit. And, like, that really sets the tone, because it's like, Bob is the hero in this story. When he shows up, you become able to win. Even if he's not in the final battle, you can win because you got Bob back.

(01:39:39):
And then none of that comes through. In season four, he comes across, and this is purposeful. Like, the writers are very intentionally making him feel like he's out of place, like he feels like a burden. He's constantly questioning his place in these people's lives, and the other characters are giving him absolutely nothing to work with because they're all just basically acting like he's redundant and unimportant, and it doesn't make sense for them to all default to that. The character assassination thing. Everyone just starts acting like a dick to this character that we spent an entire season fixated on finding and saving and recognizing the intrinsic value of. And it is a. It's a pivot of characterization that doesn't make sense. They could have sold me only on Dot having a maladaptive coping mechanism to everything suddenly going back to normal.

(01:40:22):
But she still needs to remember what happened every time she looks at Bob like, that explanation kind of flies. It doesn't fly for everybody else in the show, and it only kind of flies with dot. She's, I think, too smart to fall for that.
Yeah. And it's weird. Cause they should be trauma bonded at this point.
Right?
Like, went through so much.
They've been fucking through it. Yeah, it's wild.

(01:40:44):
It's insane. Like, season four, they all behave like they're insane. They're all flatterized. They're all. They're all crazy. They're ineffectual where they need to be effective. And it's. It's a bothersome season as a result. When season three so good. And you can just, like, stop at season three. So, like, yeah, we have notes here about, like, how it should better. And unfortunately, the nature of the show is just like, what if. As opposed to, like, how could it be?

(01:41:09):
Yeah, got it.
Until I get, like, that flux capacitor, like, sent to my house, like, once. Like, then the show. Then the show becomes, like, truly the great thing where we're actually changing history. But as it is, we have speculated on how the show could have been better, but, like, it wasn't. And, like, honestly, if you're watching it, like, watch it, but it's like, watch it with a grain of salt because there's a couple of good scenes in there and at least you, like, know what happens to Damon and, like, blah, blah. But, like, season three is really where they show ends.

(01:41:35):
There's truly no. I think there's no merit to watching season four. I think, like, if you're. Because the version of Damon that we get, it doesn't match the vibes we got from what Damon was implied to be, like in the one episode where she gets foreshadowed in season three. Like, this might just be me. I don't know when they're talking about, like, damon's infected, the supercomputer, the guardians are all following her orders, and Turbo is like, but I'm strong. I can still fight. And then as soon as we meet Damon, absolutely nobody can fight her under any circumstances. It's like, how the fuck was turbo? Whatever. And they kind of try to retcon it a little bit. I think it's a retcon because turbo at one point is like, oh, blame Damon.

(01:42:12):
She sent that web creature to mainframe, and it's like, I don't think she did. I think that was just a weird thing that happened. And then you came up with a cool idea for, if you got another season, and you just peppered it in, like, oh, secretly a bigger bad guy was responsible for this weird thing that.
Happened, and it's at least different. I enjoy that. It's kind of funny when it's a canadian group doing, like, a french canadian supervillain.

(01:42:34):
Oh, yeah. I was wondering why she was true.
And, like, the hexadecimal daemon fight itself is rewarding up until it, like, just stops.
Because Daemon is, by her nature. She's the kind of villain that you can't stop. It's like Infinity War, thanos. Like, there's no universe where he doesn't get all the stones and do the snap because that's what the entire thing is built. There's no universe where Damon doesn't fulfill her function. And the fact that her function includes a countdown where they can stop it is, like, just convenient for the good guys. One of the only good moments of that season, though, is when that guy's counting down in binary and his last word is, oh, like, he realizes in that moment what's about to happen. Like, that's. There's good bits.

(01:43:15):
Speaking of voice actor, same voice actor as Ryan Ox. And I could not fucking stop paying attention to that part.
Ha ha. I didn't know that. That's fun.
Yeah. Anyway, so really, the true. Another pass is just stop at season three. But if you're really curious, you can watch it just, like, keep yourself emotionally prepared. That, like, season three is perfect and season four is, as you said, aggressively trying not to be perfect.

(01:43:40):
Zachary, you can always do what I do as a palate cleanser and just watch the back half of season two and then all of season three in one go. It gives you the perfect reboot experience. Just enough of the episodic, slice of life, status quo stuff that you sort of get the vibe, and then all of the season three, the status quo will not protect you stuff. That's so good, man.

(01:44:00):
I needed that. Reboot is a series that will pop up in my heart every now and then, and I just need to talk to someone about it. And, red, thank you for coming on. Thank you for being a vocal person about reboot in the world and for talking about it on your podcast, because it awakens things within me where I'm like, I just need to talk about that cool fucking gold eye that, like, rotates and has an image inside of it. Like, so fucking cool.

(01:44:26):
Everything about matrix is so fucking cool. Everything about matrix decision designed to be cool. So, red, well, thank.
Thank you for coming on this show.
Thank you for giving me an outlet, because I've talked about this to my friends, but it's at the level of, like, when I was rewatching it, I mentioned in blue that I was rewatching it, and I was like, oh, you'd like this episode. The viruses get, like, a venom suit redesign. And I sent him a picture and he recognized the villain, and I was like, oh, my God. You were paying attention. Oh, my God. You remember. That one is hexadecimal. I'm so touched.

(01:44:56):
Like, the megabyte in the black and white color scheme is so fucking scary looking. We never talked about it. Cause it's season two.
He's not beating the venom allegations. And the fact that the web creature gives them a tongue, like, that's fucked. That's not a thing that they should have. God. So the amount to which I restrain this in my daily life to avoid just dumping it on people who didn't ask for it. So it was very nice to have the outlet, and I really appreciate it. I feel like I still have, like, another 2 hours of grievances in me. But we don't need to get into it.

(01:45:24):
But I think we should call it here.
Probably not. No. We didn't even get into the fanfic zone of, like. But what if they took these threads? They did. And then they did them good.
Actual, which the fanfic actually has gotten pretty exciting. Like, there was a full on fan written, fan drawn webcomic series. And by that, I don't mean like, a fan or two. I mean, like, pages were all, like, kind of assembled together by fans.

(01:45:44):
It was, like, semi official too. There was. I remember I read through it once. It had the same problem I have with, like, the Firefly comics because they're all post serenity, and I don't really like a lot of the things they do in serenity. So they have to make do with half the cast.
Well, yeah, it's like a big time jump after the hunt because they didn't want to, like, fully, like, spoil it kind of thing.
Yeah, they just decided to have it be like they lost the hunt and now they're kind of refugees in the web or something of the net. And look, we gave matrix a little tiny key tool. Isn't that cute? I don't know. It's been a really long time since I read it. And I was mostly just like, this is no season three. So I gave up, basically.

(01:46:19):
Anyway, anyway, so, Sam, I want to thank you for trusting me when I insisted that we talk about not one, but two made for tv movies that were really just a secret extra season of a show that had never watched.
Huh.
Yeah. Yeah. You owe me.
No, that's fair. That's fair.
No, it's fine. No, I did. I did enjoy season three. I enjoyed it. Season four is a clusterfuck, and I will never do it again. Never.

(01:46:50):
That's the right move. Hopefully, neither will I.
But hopefully, like, us, proselytizing season three is sufficient here to have earned some goodwill on this one because I have cornered people so many times to be like, yeah, you know, do you remember that really weird CGI show from when were, like. Like, a little too old for, like, watching it, but, like, were still watching, like, red season ninja Turtles that were on at the same time. So, like, we would, like, tune in for an episode here or there. Like, it's season three. It's so cool. Like, it's. It. Like, Enzo, the little guy, is like, he grows up. He's violent, man. Like, like, Vin Macri, who composed theme to the show. Like, I did that to him in college, like, when I. And he borrowed the dvd's because of my recommendation and, like, got into it as a result. Like, I.

(01:47:34):
I am so happy to have these moments. And, oh, my God, if you're listening to this episode, if you're here and we are 2 hours into this episode and you are okay with it and you haven't watched it, go fucking watch season three of reboot.
Yeah. Honestly, you know what? I'm a firm advocate for the idea that season three hits better when you have the context of season one and two. But if it's what it takes, I would advocate for starting with season three when it starts looking really good, and then when you get curious about what the fuck they're talking about, you'll already have sunk cost your way into getting okay with how it looks when you go back to season two.

(01:48:07):
Yeah, I mean, I guess you could start with Andrea in season two. Like, that's probably a pretty good starting point for the whole thing.
You know what? You could even just do the last three episodes of season two just to get yourself, like, a jumping point because, like, I basically did the last.
It amused Bush.
Exactly. I actually did, like, the last five episodes of season two. I watched, like, one of those, like, hey, this is what I thought.

(01:48:29):
Blah, blah.
This is what happens. And then I was just like, okay, let me do that so I can jump into season three. And it wasn't too bad, because season two is more of a slice of life. It's not as. I mean, there's, like, points, but it's not as. It's more. You can watch episode by episode. It's not like, you know, and there is the big thing that happens at the end of season two to lead into season three. And it'll give you enough of a feel for, like, how Bob kind of takes care of his world because him going away really is the cornerstone of what sets everything into motion. Right. He's the rock rolling. Just taking him out of that, like, sending, basically Odysseus not coming back from a war is going to put the home into chaos.

(01:49:16):
So I would say if you're interested and you want to, it is free with commercials. If you have Amazon with free. So you can go ahead and you can go and watch it. You don't have to pay for this. Although the commercials are very jarring when diaper commercials come out.
But to be fair, originally, like a broadcast tv show. So, like, commercials kind of fit also.

(01:49:37):
You'Re watching it the way it was meant to be, but it would have been toy commercials. It was really weird. I was getting a lot of, like, you know, older people commercials. But I would say, yeah, pick a point towards the end of season two, then you at least get that, like, and then you can really enjoy season three. And then that's it. And, guys, it's like, season three is only 16 episodes. You're gonna be fine. It's like, it's low commitment, but a really good season. And. Yes.

(01:50:05):
Yeah. And the whole thing is on shout factory. They have, like, a site which has, like, a little archive. That's how I rewatched it this time around. It also does ads, but if you watch it in browser. No, it doesn't.
Anyway, heard or just like, have all the dvd sets. Like, I have multiple. I have both the individual releases of season three and four. I also have, like, the bound edition that they, like, came out with. Just because I like the show. I'm like, yeah, no, I'll rebuy.

(01:50:34):
I get it. I get it.
And again. And again.
Yeah, I should do that.
But we are encouraging people who've never watched it to watch it. So the free sites that we mentioned.
Will probably show factory. It's fun. It's good.
So, yeah, so you should go check it out and then you should check out the awesome analysis of myths and tropes and all the things that you do over at overly sarcastic productions. So, Red, do you want to give a shout out to where people can find you and what kind of stuff you do.

(01:51:03):
Yeah, I'm over on YouTube. As mentioned, overly sarcastic productions. I mostly do nowadays, trope talks and myths or folk tales, little retellings of them, because I think they're fun. If you watch any given trope talk, there's about a 30% chance that I'm going to also talk about reboot season three in there just because of who I am as a person. I've gotten a few people. There's a few comments on shout factory. They're like, ospred sent me here on the first episode. They told me they were leaving forever, but someone on the second episode was like, oh, spread sent me here. Enzo's my boy, and I'm vibing. And I was like, yes, I got him. If I convert even one person, it was worth it. That's mostly where I am. So check that out.

(01:51:36):
Yeah. And then after that, and it feels weird to be like, go check out overly sarcastic production versus, like, our, like, measly, like, a thousand subscribers. Oh, then come back here and check out more episodes that we've got going on and all the other stuff going [e-mail]. There's a ton of great shows there. You can find a link to our discord server, and you can interact with us directly. And if you're not into all that, you can find me on Xaseachen.

(01:52:06):
It's still Twitter.
You can find me most places at case Aiken. You can find me where the skies are blue at Case Aiken. The only place you can't find me at case Aiken is Instagram, where I am Quetzalcoatl five, because I am holding on to that high school aim screen name for dear life because I was both a pretentious mythology nerd and also a legion of superhero nerd. But if you're not looking for me and you actually care about Sam because Sam is the cooler one of us. Sam, where can they find you?

(01:52:34):
Nowhere. I'm in game. Like, I'm too busy. I'm fighting.
You could say that you live in the games.
I come from the games.
Live in the games.
Yeah, I come from the games. I live in the games. I live for the games. And so, no, if you have anything to say to me or about me or you hated anything that I said tonight, although I don't know why you would, because you definitely should agree with me that season four should not have been made.

(01:53:00):
And if you disagree, I guess you have no choice but to watch all of it to judge. And you need previous seasons also for context, you know. Otherwise you can't have an informed.
You can actually just refer back to the plugs that case gave and just find him and complain directly to him.
Totally fair. Totally fair. Yeah. So yeah.
Yeah.
Like, we would welcome comments on the episodes.

(01:53:21):
Yeah, you can come to our discord.
It's actually gotten really active recently. A lot of, like, Superman fans have found it from the ministeel videos, which is really cool.
Hell yeah.
Because the video game stuff had been like, for a long time, the most dominant conversation on the cpov discords. But, like, very happy to have all of that. Like, a lot of great people I've been really happy to talk to and just interact with. So that's very cool. Check that all out and then check us out for our next episode. Sam, what do we have coming up next?

(01:53:51):
Well, next time we'll be talking about Highlander two, the quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
Thanks for listening to certain point of views. Another past podcast, don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on iTunes. Just go to certainpov.com.

(01:54:12):
Another pass is a certain pov production. Our hosts are Sam Alisea and case Aiken. The show is edited by.