April 4, 2025 • 60 mins
Matt aka Stormageddon emerges from a pipe to surprise Case and Sam with the power up of a movie, The Super Mario Bros. Movie! Can they make it through with only three continues?
Music by Vin Macri and Matt Brogan
Podcast Edited by Sophia Ricciardi
Overview
In the podcast recording discussion titled "Another Pass at The Super Mario Bros Movie," hosts Case Aiken and Sam Alicea, joined by guest Matt (Stormageddon), delve into their cinematic experiences of the 2023 film, praising its 92-minute runtime and appeal to both children and nostalgic adult fans. They highlight standout performances, notably Jack Black as Bowser and Anya Taylor-Joy as a proactive Princess Peach, while critiquing Chris Pratt's portrayal of Mario as merely average. The hosts discuss the film’s visual splendor and numerous Easter eggs, though they express disappointment over its reliance on pop music rather than classic Mario compositions. Despite some criticisms of the plot's formulaic nature and suggestions for improvement, the overall consensus is positive, deeming the film entertaining while respecting the franchise's legacy; potential sequels and upcoming projects are also touched upon as they conclude the episode.
Notes
Introduction to The Super Mario Bros Movie Discussion (00:02 - 08:33) Cast Performance and Character Representation (08:33 - 18:50) Music, Visuals and Fan Service (18:50 - 30:01)
- Matt (Stormageddon) returns as a guest to discuss The Super Mario Bros Movie (2023)
- Case Aiken introduces podcast with co-host Sam Alicea
- The hosts discuss their viewing experiences of the film
- The 92-minute runtime is highlighted as a positive factor that keeps the movie from overstaying its welcome
- Initial thoughts: The film works well for both children and nostalgic adult Nintendo fans
- Jack Black as Bowser receives unanimous praise as a standout performance
- Anya Taylor-Joy as Princess Peach also praised for making the character active rather than a damsel
- Charlie Day as Luigi received positive reviews
- Chris Pratt as Mario described as 'just fine' - not as bad as internet feared but not exceptional
- The group appreciates Charles Martinet's cameo as Mario's father and Giuseppe
- The opening commercial sequence featuring the 'Super Mario Super Show' song noted as a clever homage
- Keegan-Michael Key's performance as Toad highlighted as charming
- The film successfully modernizes Princess Peach as a proactive character rather than a damsel in distress
- Major criticism: The film relies too heavily on pop music needle drops instead of using iconic Mario game music
- Case and Matt express disappointment that classic Koji Kondo compositions weren't featured more prominently
- The DK rap inclusion was appreciated, though Grant Kirkhope wasn't properly credited initially
- The visual design receives high praise, described as 'one of the most gorgeous animated films' they've seen
- The group appreciates the many Easter eggs and references to various Mario games
- Notable references: Mario Kart customization, power-ups, Rainbow Road, and Luigi's Mansion sequence
- Film balances content for children with nostalgic references for adult fans of the games<
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Case (00:02):
But yeah, I mean, I think that this movie, to bring up your point about like the parents beats and stuff like that, it feels a bit Mario paint by numbers and like, you know, it's just here's the scene that we need to have for the sake of getting them there. And that's. That's probably the biggest sin of this movie in general.
Geoff (00:25):
Welcome to certain Another Past podcast with Case and Sam where we take another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them.
Case (00:39):
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Another Past podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my co host Sam Alicea.
Sam (00:46):
Hi.
Case (00:48):
And Sam, do you like mushrooms?
Sam (00:51):
Yes, yes I do.
Case (00:52):
Good. I do too. I think that they are a balanced part of every diet.
Sam (00:57):
High in fiber.
Case (00:58):
You know, honestly I like them a lot. I could have them most meals. I could honestly live in a kingdom of mushrooms as it were. And that's great because today we are talking about the Super Mario Bros. Movie, the new one, the 2023 one. And obviously for that conversation we are joined by Matthew, also known as Stormageddon.
Matt (01:22):
Yes, hello. I'm happy to be back. It's been a minute. I think the last time I was on was for Sonic. Right. So I've clearly got a pattern at this point.
Case (01:32):
Oh yeah. And prior to that there had been so many team ups between the Fun and Games podcast and us doing video game movies. It made sense for you to be on for the video game movie. It honestly would be weird if were talking about this movie without you.
Matt (01:45):
It's true, it's true. It's like it's in. My contract is I have to come back for every video game movie. Right.
Case (01:50):
That was part of your golden parachute when you left the show.
Matt (01:52):
I do wish this podcast had a video version though, so the audience could see how hard I rolled my eyes at the intro. But like, you know, it's just, I'm readjusting. I'm re acclimating, so it's fine. I just had to share it for the audio listener.
Case (02:04):
What, you think you have a power up that you could give it exactly right? Or rather we could get really meta and this could be you giving another pass at my. Another pass like intro.
Matt (02:14):
No, no, no, no. We, we all have stuff to do today, Case.
Case (02:17):
Yeah. And one of those things is talk about this movie and I'm going to just like come out and say it. I hadn't seen this movie not of want just for. I just one of those I figured I would watch it eventually situations and it just was never pressing. I ended up really liking this movie. I think it kind of just did everything that I wanted a Mario movie to do.
Sam (02:38):
It's fun movie and it's short, so that's nice.
Matt (02:42):
Yeah, it's fun. Fun fact. I saw this in theaters and I saw it with CPOV member Keith from. Oh my God. I'm blanking.
Case (02:53):
Music.
Matt (02:53):
Thank you. Yeah.
Case (02:54):
Jukebox Vertigo.
Matt (02:56):
Vertigo. Yeah. I don't know why it fel my head. I love you Keith. But yeah, I was. He was still living in Arizona at the time last year when this came out and I was visiting for Passover and seeing my in laws and I wrote him like, you want to go see a movie? He's like, yeah. And so went to see because also Sarah had no interest in seeing this movie, bless her. So I was like, let's go see it. And so went to see it together. We had a blast. And yeah, I mean I really like it. I think most of my caveats have come after watching it more than once going, this could have been better. But it was still pretty good. I mean, I think what saves it from being bad is the runtime.
(03:30):
Like it moves so quickly through everything and it's kind of like, ooh, shiny. Ooh, shiny. Ooh, shiny. And it was also designed for folks of our age. Yeah, a number I won't state out loud for anyone, but this movie was like for little kids and folks of our age, like the Nintendo dorks who grew up playing these games. But no, I enjoy it too. I just. I wish, I just wish it leaned more into like, I don't know, the story of Mario. Which feels very weird to say out loud since the early games barely had a story.
Case (04:03):
Well, this movie feels very much like the early games in terms of the story approach. Like this feels a lot like the stuff that you would see on like the Super Mario Bros. Super show. Or like it's the spin off when they did Mario 3 and then Super Mario World. Like those cartoons that they put out there. Like this feels like a really high budget, really well made version of that where it's you. Brooklyn. Brooklyn Plumbers like sucked down. Like that's the intro sequence for. For all the Super Mario cartoons and like sucked down into the Mushroom Kingdom. And then the world of the Mushroom Kingdom in this is very much like it's Mario 3D world esque. Particularly with like the clear Pipes.
(04:41):
But the good news about that is that Mario 3D world was like a perfect 3D version of like, what we had been seeing in like, Super Mario Brothers 3 and super, you know, Super Mario World and like, what we kind of consider like the classic staples of Mario movies.
Matt (04:54):
Yeah. And I also like the plot as far as, like, Bowser wanting to marry the princess. And all of that is from previous cartoons. It's from the latest game, Mario Odyssey, the latest 3D game. Like, that was the plot. He kidnapped the peach to marry. To marry her. And so, like. And that, you know, having Jack Black as Bowser made that a lot of fun. I think that the all star cast members here are definitely Bowser and Princess Peach like Charlie Day a lot too.
Case (05:20):
Chris.
Matt (05:21):
Chris Pratt wasn't awful in this. I think he was just fine, like, when he's really into it towards the end of the film and, like, really acting like Mario, it was more fun, but he was just kind of just delivering a performance.
Case (05:33):
I got to admit, his bar was very low.
Matt (05:36):
Yeah.
Case (05:36):
For, for me, because I was coming in assuming that this was going to be like, you know, the, the. The Internet was not a big fan of him being cast in this part.
Matt (05:45):
Right.
Case (05:45):
And so there was a lot of backlash at the time. And then, like, then I actually watched him like, oh, it's actually, you know, pretty tame. Like, he's. He's not just doing Chris Pratt voice. He's doing a bit of a Mario voice. It's not, you know, any. It's still mostly Chris Pratt, but, like, you know, like, there's actual acting going on beyond what I was expecting.
Sam (06:03):
Right. But it's not so, you know, Mario that he's like. To me. So it didn't feel too much like a caricature, you know, that would have possibly made people go, what is wrong with that guy?
Case (06:17):
Right.
Matt (06:17):
Yeah, I, you know, there was a lot of hubbub about Charles Martinet, the voice of. Who had been the voice of Mario for like 30 plus years more, wasn't cast in this. He plays Mario's dad and he also plays Giuseppe, the guy who sounds like Mario early in the movie. Right. And theory was that Charles Martinet doing that because Mario doesn't talk a ton in the games, and when in the RPGs, it's them speaking like Italian gibberish. So it's more like. And so, like, that doesn't get grading. But the Mario voice from the new Modern 3D Mario games for an hour and a half, Might have. That's a theory. I don't know for a fact that was the case. I am glad that Charles Martinet was in the film and got to be a normal voiced person as well as.
(07:03):
And like making the father of the voice of Mario the father of Mario in the game is a very clever nod and I'm sure very much on purpose, which was. Was, was lovely.
Case (07:14):
Well, and then also we. We get that opening sequence with the. The Super Mario Bros. Commercial where they're. They're putting on that voice much more so. And it might. I couldn't actually tell on my watch if that was Chris Pratt or if that was.
Matt (07:26):
It was. Yeah, it was. It was still Chris Pratt and. And Charlie Day. Although fun fact, Charles Martinet does voice both brothers as well as Wario and Waluigi and a bunch of other characters. Or he did anyway. But yeah, no, I do like that the commercial had the original Super Mario super show song in it. They, you know, they shot it. Fun fact, the voice of the woman who sink. They're plunging. Is the original Princess Peach from the Super Mario Super Show. Oh. They brought her to play that woman in the commercial, which you don't get enough to really know, but I double checked and looked it up. But yeah, I thought that was fun. Is that they kind of brought her in as like a. To pay homage to the classic Princess Peach, which was fun.
Case (08:04):
Okay. This is the character who has the line of the only thing it doesn't drain is my wallet. And then like, it's like a weird look at the script.
Sam (08:11):
It's like such a wonderful reading of it too. Like you're like, yeah, this is a bad. This is a bad commercial. I love it.
Matt (08:20):
Yeah. I mean, I think that the opening to set the scene is. Is pretty good. And like the giving the stakes to the Mario Brothers and who they are is good. I like when they were running late to their first appointment. Like they show it side as a side and they make it like the layout looks similar to a stage in the Mushroom Kingdom. Like that kind of stuff is clever. I think that, like, I just think like the plumbing scene. Like I get the importance of them failing so they go home and then like their parents are mean to them and all of that. But it just all felt like either too rushed or not enough. I can't decide which it is. It just kind of felt there and like we're accepting it because it's just kind of the.
(08:58):
They're there to get them to the Mushroom Kingdom. I do like that, like in the old live action Mario movie that they go into the sewer and there's all these pipes. Like, the fact that the mushroom kingdom getting there is always just a series of pipes under Brooklyn.
Case (09:13):
It's a series of tubes. Yeah. No, I have a note that I like that. That big pipe facility that they go. That they go into when they first go into the sewers. It looks very much like an updated take on like the original Mario Bros. Game.
Matt (09:28):
Yeah.
Case (09:28):
As opposed to Super Mario Bros. Like the one where they're just in the sewers and they're dodging turtles and fireballs. And this is like one of my, like, few spots where I'm like, oh, I could have used like a little bit more of a nod if there was like a Koopa or like, you know, in shadow or something like having come through the. The tube there. But that. That's like a super minor detail on that one. And like I said, I. I'm not even positive that it is supposed to be a nod to the original Mario Bros. It just kind of feels that way. And this, like, movie really feels like they're. It's stuffed with that kind of stuff. So I'm gonna assume.
Matt (10:01):
But.
Case (10:01):
But yeah, I mean, I think that this movie, to bring up your point about like, the. The parents beats and. And stuff like that, it feels a bit Mario paint by numbers. And like, you know, it's just here's the scene that we need to have for the sake of getting them there. And that's. That's probably the biggest end of this movie in general. Like, it, like everything in this movie is like a very basic story that then has, like, good jokes for adults and it's like bright visuals and stuff for kids. And like, the fact that it's a PG movie is probably only because we have that intensely nihilistic sun creature or star creature.
Sam (10:38):
I love the Luminance star. I would die for that star. I'm pretty sure that the star would be happy to hear that because that's what the star likes. I love it. I love it. I love it.
Matt (10:50):
Yeah, that's one of the Lumas. They're from the Mario Galaxy games and they're part of like, Princess Rosalina's crew. And what's interesting about that is, like, so there's theories that Princess Rosalina is that Rosalina is actually related to Princess Peach and is the daughter of but got sent to another galaxy or something. And so it's just very funny to me that, like, when they're in the fireflower Field, which is such a cool visual. And then she's looking up at the stars and saying, well, there's a lot of galaxies up there for one. It's alluding to Mario Galaxy a little heavy handedly, which is fine. But also alluding to those rumors because I don't think Nintendo's ever come out and say it, that there's some kind of relate, like parental relationship somehow between Rossalina and Princess Peach. But yeah, I love that Luma.
(11:35):
I like those scenes. So I think that what this movie does do well is what Keis was saying is that the comedy beats hit really well. Like the opening scene with the giant floating island hitting landfall and like Bowser's troops coming out and getting ready to attack. And then the doors opening up with giant shadows to the penguin knights and they just go all in like they're going to wage this epic war. And then it's just they're throwing snowballs and it barely phases Bowser. Like it's such a good comedy beat there. That does really set the tone for the movie. And I think the biggest sin of this film is that it's a basic plot that's going from set piece to like for fanfare, right? Like, here's a thing, you know, here's another thing, you know, here's another thing, you know.
(12:21):
But it doesn't feel like a full commitment because while they do that, they still use a ton of like pop music as needle drops, which is fine. But like the stuff that Koji Kondo has composed for all of the Mario games is relegated to like small moments. Like the Mario Kart theme when they're driving or like the star theme that's orchestrated in when they get the superstar at the end, things like that. But like, they could have like, for example, my biggest gripe is so when they get to the Kong kingdom and they're confronted and then taken in the cart to go see Cranky Kong played by Fred Armisen, which I still think is the funniest casting in the entire film, but not awful. Like they play Take On Me, which is a great song.
(13:02):
But they could have played the Donkey Kong country theme by David Wise. Or they could have played literally Donkey Kong's theme from the original Donkey Kong game or some like techno version of it. Or like it just feels like a waste to play Take On Me there. Or like holding out for a hero when Mario's training, when there are a million Mario songs that are high pitched, like high paced and like get you moving. I just it didn't make sense to me to not use any of that.
Case (13:28):
Well, and like, I had a note of a similar one, which is that they play no Sleep till Brooklyn when. During the 2D segment when they're trying to get to that first that. The first plumbing job. And it's just like, oh, that's so weird that they. The same year as guardians of Galaxy 3, which has like a big no Sleep Till Brooklyn number as well.
Sam (13:44):
Like, right.
Case (13:45):
Oh, it's just in the Zeitgeist. And then I was watching a review of this movie that said that, like, holding out for a Hero had been used three times in, like, in three weeks of movies that they had reviewed. And I was like, oh, I wonder which ones. But like, also, yeah, maybe just like, these are all the needle drops that are in the Zeitgeist at the moment. And they could have done tracks from the. From the video games.
Matt (14:03):
Yeah. I mean, they feel holding out for hero feels on the nose, which I get. And like, I think the biggest success of this film is that the princess is never a damsel in distress. And thank God for that.
Sam (14:14):
Yeah.
Matt (14:16):
The fact that Princess Peach is like a butt kicking princess and Mario has to learn and Luigi is the damsel in distress, I liked better. I missed having Luigi in the whole film because folks can't see. But I'm wearing a Luigi hat as we speak. He's my favorite. But we got enough at the end that I felt sort of satisfied. But it was. It did stink that he was kind of gone for half the film. But I do like that the princess wasn't like, didn't need to be rescued even at the end. Like, she rescues herself and then Mario gets there.
Case (14:43):
Right?
Sam (14:44):
Yeah.
Matt (14:45):
And I appreciate all that.
Sam (14:46):
Well, without Luigi being captured, we wouldn't have had such a wonderful, you know, moment with Lumi. So I'm. I'm okay with that. I'm fine. Like, all the prisoners actually, like, because, like, that's kind of vital to, like, us knowing exactly what Bowser's been doing, you know, because we see our open set piece, you know, lose to Bowser. We don't know what happened to him. Now we know, right? Everyone's just in cages over lava and, like, just waiting for whatever he has planned, apparently is a wonderful sacrificial gift to his future bride. So this a man of romance.
Matt (15:26):
Yeah, Obviously. Just. Just a bleeding heart.
Sam (15:29):
Yeah, yeah. Nothing says any like love, like a wedding sacrifice.
Case (15:36):
Go on, Matt, you were about to say something.
Matt (15:38):
I was just gonna say also, while we're talking about the music a little bit, I do have to say that, like, I couldn't believe how many people were surprised that Jack Black broke out into the song. I mean, you hire Jack Black, like, he's gonna sing. He sings in most. Like, I'm sure Po in the. In the Kung Fu Panda films have sung. Has sung quite a few times. But like, if you hire a video game nerd such as Jack Black to play a video game character, he's going to write a romance song. And the fact that it was nominated for a Grammy and. And that he made a live action music video to it, like, it was just. It's great. It's ridiculous. And I don't. That is a joke, though. That is for the adults in the room.
(16:14):
Like, I just don't understand what a kid makes of. Why is Bowser singing about Princess Peach? I don't understand. Like, like, maybe they get it, but I think that whole bit is a joke for the adults in the room.
Case (16:24):
I mean, I think they sell his, like, romance and then they have like that menacing scene with him, like, jamming with. With the mage Koopa.
Sam (16:33):
Yeah.
Matt (16:34):
Kamek.
Case (16:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (16:35):
He's doing the Dunna na na.
Case (16:37):
Yep.
Sam (16:39):
Because, like, it's not about to be happy and he knows it. I actually really enjoyed that scene.
Case (16:45):
Yeah. So his musical talents are set up pretty well. And then like I said, like, I, you know, I feel like they. They sell the. The romance or at least his like, passions for Peach pretty well. There's the whole bit of like, don't you hate her? Yes, but that just makes the love, like, stronger or whatever the line is.
Sam (17:04):
So, like, when he's like, ready to conquer her, like him, like, being shy with like, his little, like, Venus fly drafts, like he's like, going on a real date. Like, just for that one moment, I was like, oh, no, Sam. That's not an awe moment. I don't know. They did play it up for, like, there were moments where you're like, maybe never. Never.
Matt (17:27):
Yeah. I mean, it's funny that I think casting Jack Black as Bowser and us knowing that we're getting a Donkey Kong movie at some point and also a sequel to this, I'm sure, like in all the Super Mario RPG games, Bowser is some kind of half villain. Right? Like, he hates Mario, but they end up working together often in those, like, RPG games. And so, like, him kind of being in love with Peach and like, wanting no one to kidnap Peach but him does lay the groundwork for some kind of team up in the second film against a bigger threat or something. Which could be fun because, like, as much as I don't know why they shoehorned Donkey Kong into this film, I didn't mind Seth Rogen's performance of him. And I did, like, the like, kind of competitive rival ness of it.
(18:15):
I thought they're, they played off each other well, especially like when they're inside the eel. And so, like, I didn't mind it. And so I could see a longer form, like kind of buddy cop film like that happening.
Case (18:26):
Yeah, it did seem strange that Donkey Kong was so influential to the third act. Like, it made sense enough for Donkey Kong to have an appearance. Like Mario's first appearance is in Donkey Kong. So, like. Right, that part makes sense. But yeah, for it to be like, oh, well, we need the Kong army. That's how we're going to overcome the whole thing. As opposed to, like, this is a detour on their mission to whatever, to like, overcome the whole thing, you know.
Matt (18:49):
Well, right. And it also ends up being pointless. The Kong army gets kidnapped and basically Mario, Donkey Kong and Peach defeat everybody and Toad. And so, like, I don't, Yeah, I, I, I would. I, I had alluded to this earlier, but the k. The Mario Kart scene is awesome. When they're picking their karts and they're building it like you do in the new in Mario Kart 8, by selecting each piece, like, brilliant. But you know, and even getting to hear a little bit of Rainbow Road once they hit it. Like, all of that is really cool. And like, the fight on Rainbow Road is really cool. And seeing the carts turn into hover bikes, which is also from the newest Mario Kart.
(19:26):
Like, all of that is really fun, but I feel like serves no purpose other than for a way to the Kong army to get kidnapped. Because Peach doesn't even get kidnapped, then she still makes it home. She decides to defend her kingdom and then acquiesces. So, like, I feel like we could have put something else there or saved Mario Kart for another movie or something. It just didn't seem to make sense. I don't know what else I put there.
Case (19:49):
I mean, it just felt like a required action beat and like, it was just like we need some kind of sequence that is, you know, highly, you know, visually interesting for the kids to watch. And it can't be too violent. Oh, Mario Kart. That's a fun, you know, nod. And they need to travel. Okay, that, you know, puts it all together. I, I kind of agree that it doesn't really do much and like the tension of a rate, you know, it's not a race for starters, so there's no tension there. It's just like. It's a Mad Max style chase kind of sequence once the Koopas get involved. But yeah, it does. It doesn't do a lot for it. I.
(20:23):
It does have like some of the those nods and it's like fan service for the adults and like I said, an action beat for the kids and that's kind of it. I mean this movie is chock full of fan service for the adults. And like I do want to shout out that we do have like the fact that Toad is a major character in this is really nice. You know, Donkey Kong kind of replaces Luigi in the quartet of the Mario 2 group, which is a little bit of a bummer. I mean it's fine, but it's just nice to get. It's. It's nice to have Mario, Peach and Toad traveling as. As an adventuring party. Like that's like oh, right.
(20:54):
That you know, I all of a sudden, you know, heard like the da da da da da da da like music in my head of like the Mario 2 select screen, you know, like. Yeah, that was great. I loved by the way that the Peach floated was usually just because Mario would look at her with like a movie style slow mo scene and that was usually when she was like jumping over something and that was like her like floaty jump.
Matt (21:19):
Yeah, I like that. Toad was a major character. I thought Keegan Michael Key did a great job as Toad. He was actually quite charming and not annoying as Toad can sometimes be, especially with the way his voice is played in the games, the modern games. But it is was a bit of a bummer that the first time I watched it that he didn't even know Peach and that they hadn't met yet and then they meet in this adventure. But like by the end of my REW today I was like, no, actually I think it's fun to kind of give Toad a little bit of an origin story. Being one of the bravest toads and then becoming Peaches like Ally. And now going forward he'll be the Toad that's always with Peach. Like it was an unnecessary origin story.
(21:58):
But on a rewatch it didn't seem like it was a poor choice. And I don't know how it would get there a different way other than them already Being acquainted before he meets Mario.
Sam (22:09):
And I do like the choice if they are looking towards a possibility of building this out into more because then that gives you more of a. You know, because now he has a history, so there's a possibility to kind of build that stuff out if you really need to.
Matt (22:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Case (22:28):
And I. I think that the relationship, they already had enough of one where he knew that she was his princess and that she was. And that he was one of her subjects, you know?
Matt (22:36):
Right.
Sam (22:37):
Yeah.
Case (22:37):
As an aside, every time that she said my toads, it sounded like. It sounded in my brain like my dudes.
Matt (22:44):
Oh, absolutely.
Case (22:45):
And like, every time it's like my toads. Listen to me. I was like my dudes.
Matt (22:50):
I do like also fan servicey stuff that we got to see when Mario was moving through the Mushroom kingdom of like ATMs where you hit a coin block to get the coins and they're carrying the coins around or like antiques. And it's a bunch of like 8 bit and 16 bit items from the different games. Like.
Sam (23:08):
Yeah, the.
Matt (23:09):
It's clear that the. That Matthew Fogel, who wrote this, is a fan of Mario, if not an avid player of the games, at least familiar enough with the source material to make those kinds of gags. And like, were never going to get a bad movie out of this because Shigeru Miyamoto was one of the producers along with the head of illumination. Like, so he was personally overseeing it. Whereas they just sold the rights in the first movie and then absolutely did nothing to promote that movie because they hated it. So like it's a. It's a different animal here. And so like, the characterizations are pretty good. And it's. It does what like, I think the most.
(23:46):
Most mediocre comic book movies that I love do, which is like, even if it doesn't feel completely true to the source material, it is like the world feels real, the characters feel real, you know, in like your Venoms or the Sonic movie I mentioned earlier, which I think this is a little stronger for, because it's animated film.
Case (24:04):
Yeah. I was gonna push back a little bit on the like, true to the source material. I'm like, I'm. I'd say this feels like shockingly true to the source material for a movie, you know?
Matt (24:13):
Right. I think that's. It is like they can only get so exacting, but like, because also the characters are played really well, all the supporting characters, the main characters. That just fully sells the bit, as it were, I think, and makes it really work. I Just wish were able to get to the final act in a different way than like the training montage. Fine. It's a bit. It's a gag. That's fine. But then to do an almost similar obstacle course with Donkey Kong and the Kongs and like also the Kong kingdom. Like, I know why they have it. Like Donkey Kong is, I would say, almost as popular as Mario, especially the modern Donkey Kong country stuff. But it just felt a little forced into this movie. Especially since they're now going to do a Donkey Kong movie. Like, why didn't they.
(25:00):
They could have Avengers style. Like had like a Donkey Kong cameo and then done a full Donkey Kong movie separately. I don't know. It's. I can't decide if I do or don't like the fight scene. I think it's fun. The gags they tell in it, like Mario getting absolutely trounced and then getting the mini mushroom and then getting the cat suit and like working in as many power ups as they did, like the tanuki suit and all of that, I found that really fun. The fire flower, the ice flower. Like, I wonder if we're going to get elephant Mario in the next movie since that's the latest power up in the most recent game, Mario Wonder. Which would be interesting to see animated elephant Mario. But yeah, I feel. I just, I can't put my finger on why they kind of bother me.
(25:44):
But like, I think some of the scenes just feel, I don't want to say cringy, I hate using that word, but just feel a little off. And like again, like when I rewatched it, I kind of fast forwarded through the whole plumbing scene at the beginning of the movie because the fighting with the dog and like it's establishing Luigi as a coward and them as screw ups. But I just, I hated that whole scene. It just felt too miniony to like illuminate core illumination style stuff, which, I mean, they're very successful movies, so what do I know? But I just, I kind of rolled my eyes at that whole thing. And like those kinds of moments are my biggest complaint.
Sam (26:17):
I feel like that scene, especially the beginning with the dog does feel very classic illumination. But it also for me, I was like in head, I was like, well, this one's for the kids. Like this scene right here, this is for the kid you brought with you. Because this is like classic. Like, this is the kind of thing that like 4 to like 6 year olds like will go wild for. Just like everything's going rough. Oh no. In the Water, you know, So I just kind of. That's how I accepted that. I was like, this is for the kids. Steph will be there for me later. And it was. You know, I think there's, like, a challenge when you're writing movies like this where. And I don't think, like, I think.
(27:01):
I don't want to sound like an old person standing on my front lawn waving at the clouds, but I do.
Case (27:07):
Think we should do that. I'm the youngest person on this call, which is wild.
Sam (27:11):
Wow. Wow.
Matt (27:13):
Rude.
Sam (27:14):
Rude. Oh, my God. But I. I think that there were things when I was a child, back in the before times in the 1900s, where. Where don't think that the movies were always solely written or even with consideration, written for children, but they were definitely marketed for children. And I think, like, I. I think in the last 10 years, I've seen a lot more children, like, children's films where, like. And even cartoons, where everything is just really very carefully sanitized and they make sure to kind of, like, not include those things. And so I do think that this movie walks a really good balance between still giving us the adult nods we need and the fan service for people who were born in the 1900s and are going to go see this because they grew up with this stuff.
(28:11):
And also, you know, stuff for the younger audience who is going to need Mario and Luigi fighting with a dog over toilet water and kind of walking that good balance. So I do think that, like, although, was it my favorite scene? No. And did I kind of think, like, these people are crazy. Why wouldn't you put your dog inside a room? Besides that. Besides that. I do think that's one of the things that this movie actually does a good job on. It keeps a short run time, a fast pace to keep the kids involved, jokes to make sure their parents are happy, and anyone without children going to see this are happy and kind of just keeps it moving along.
Matt (29:01):
Yeah, No, I agree. I think that the. The quick pace again, saves it from, like, if this were two hour, two and a half.
Sam (29:08):
Oh, my God, this. It'd be. It'd be.
Matt (29:10):
I put my head through it.
Case (29:11):
I mean, even if this were actually just 100 minutes, like, it's. It's 92 minutes, which is, yeah, like a very brisk pace. And even 10 minutes more of this would have started to feel rough. But, like, this is a good ratio of, like, inside jokes and, like, visual gags and, you know, big action set pieces that it keeps moving. And, you know, you get to the end of it all. And then for a movie released Easter weekend, we get an egg at the end.
Matt (29:42):
Yeah, the bonus credit scene is fun. And the fact that the voice. The voice actor who plays Yoshi in the games got uncredited. Does the Yoshi voices in the. Because we see Yoshi's a couple times. Yeah. I don't know what that bonus scene means. Like, it's meant to be like, oh, my God. And I just kind of went, okay, is a Yoshi gonna run wild in Brooklyn? I don't understand what this means. But, yeah, I think that the pace is what truly saves this film. And, like, I mean, there's. Like I said, there's a lot of fun stuff in it. I just think that some of that fillers to create a narrative, which is kind of necessary.
(30:22):
And I don't necessarily know how it change the narrative per se, but had we gotten any more of this or they had dragged it out, it definitely would have. It would have. We would have felt the weight of what they were trying to do. My highest praise for the film, though, is it's one of the most gorgeous animated films I've ever seen. And as a fan of the video games, especially the modern games, like, this is the best these characters have ever looked, right? And, like, yeah, kind of almost made me, like, when we talked about the Sonic film, in case you wanted a Sonic game based on the Sonic credit sequence at the end with the new sprites and stuff from the film, I kind of.
Case (30:57):
I wanted a level pack for Sonic.
Matt (30:59):
Mania, but, like, I would. I kind of do want Sonic. I do want a Super Mario. The movie. The game a little bit. Because, like, some of the set pieces were really cool in the film and everything did look really good.
Case (31:13):
Well, fortunately, most of the game is, like I said, Super Mario and 3D World. Yeah, like, that one is super close in a lot of ways, in good ways. And I will admit, like, watching this movie made me really want to, like, go play a bunch of Mario. Like, yeah, there's that.
Matt (31:30):
The intended effect, you know, this.
Case (31:32):
This movie feels very retro in that regard. Like, we mentioned the fact that it feels like the 80s version of the Mario lore, specifically like that it plays very much to, like, the way that Mario was marketed to us when were kids. Just the best version of that. You know, it's a lot like the. Like the Care Bears movie or the GI Joe movie or the original Transformers movie or the My Little Pony movie, you know, where it's like, here, we're gonna go play with all your friends in a fun Adventure. And it's going to look in this case look really good and have jokes for adults, which are two things that the 80s movies typically didn't have. And so it's like very, a very good modern update on that kind of thing.
(32:12):
But like, I don't, I, I mean obviously there's a lot of like toy pushing in modern media too. This one feels more so, like this one feels very 80s and just like how much it is like a toy and video game property that is getting a movie. You know, like it's an interesting, like, you know, anachronistic kind of movie, but at the same time it is fresh in a lot of ways. And so I think that they're doing a lot of good things. But there are a lot of elements of the movie that would have overstayed their welcome if this was longer.
Matt (32:46):
Yeah. And I mean there are moments that feel like they are selling a toy. Like all of the different Donkey Kong carts and Mario Karts and the power ups and the characters and the character moments. I mean they did sell a like, I think like 3 or 4 or 5 inch bowser that like sparked and blew like little fire and like was super articulate. I remember seeing. And it was like, you know, yay big. So like it obviously did sell toys. Like of course they weren't not going to make toys after they put out a Mario movie because they've been selling Mario toys for years. But making them specifically based on the movie. I mean, same with the Sonic movie. They were pedaling the versions of the characters from the film instead of just the video games too. So like it makes sense.
(33:33):
Everything is merchandising. Merchandising, to quote Spaceballs. But you know, I'm not surprised by it. But yeah, it did. I hadn't considered that. But case you're right, it does feel very like GI Joe or Transformers in that sense. Like let's put on a movie, but mostly we just want you to buy our stuff.
Case (33:49):
Yeah. And this is like the best version of that, correct? Yeah. On that note though, why don't we take a break, shout out one of the awesome shows on our network, possibly Fun and Games, which Matt, you were one of the co hosts.
Matt (34:03):
It would make sense.
Case (34:04):
That would make a lot of sense. And when we come back, why don't we talk about how this movie, despite being the best version of this kind of thing, could be even better.
Matt (34:13):
Video games are a unique medium.
Geoff (34:14):
They can tell stories, immerse us in.
Matt (34:17):
Strange fantastic worlds, blur the very boundaries of our reality. But at the end of the day, video games are fun. Whatever fun is to you.
Geoff (34:26):
I'm Jeff Moonan.
Matt (34:27):
And I am Matt, AKA Stormageddon.
Geoff (34:29):
And on Fun and Games, we talk about the history, trends, and community of video games.
Matt (34:35):
It's a celebration of all the games we play and all the fun we find within them.
Geoff (34:39):
And there's so many more games out there, so we hope you'll share in that conversation with us.
Matt (34:44):
Fun and Games podcast with Matt and Jeff. Find us on certainpov.com or wherever you.
Geoff (34:48):
Get your podcasts and happy gaming.
Case (34:51):
And we're back. All right, Matt, you brought this movie. I like this movie a lot. I think that I'm. As we've been talking, I'm like, yeah, no, Donkey Kong is too much of the movie as it is. And so I could definitely see making that more of a MacGuffin thing to do, like a fetch quest to do on the way, but not necessarily, like, instrumental to the third act victory, especially because it's not in the. In the actual long run of things. So I could see making some adjustments there and like, a couple of tweaks. But, like, I'm really curious where. Where you want to come at it because, like, I just have a note that this is like, just a very pure Mario movie. Like, it does a really good job of getting that in there.
(35:27):
We didn't shout out, by the way, the, like, Luigi's Mansion ass sequence with Luigi when he's, like, scared in, like, the Dark Lands, which is fantastic.
Matt (35:37):
Yeah, we're being traced by the dry bones. Yeah, that was actually very good.
Sam (35:40):
Yeah, yeah, it was great.
Case (35:41):
But. But, like, I'm just curious, like, where. Where do you want to start on this one?
Matt (35:46):
I mean, my. My first biggest pitch, I think, besides, like, shifting some things in the narrative is the score. I think the score has done very well, but I think the needle drops were a little too much. Like, no sleep to Brooklyn feels on the nose. Holding up for a hero Feels on the nose. Take on Me is just kind of out of place. Like, genuinely, as someone who loves Aha. And take on me. I don't know why they played it in that scene. Like, he was wearing a white sport coat. So I guess that's a little retro. The. The.
Case (36:12):
I thought maybe that Kong, because they say take on me. That, like, take on sort of sounds like Kong. But, like, that was that. That's a reach.
Matt (36:23):
Yeah. It just.
Case (36:25):
It just feels me.
Matt (36:28):
It feels like every time this movie, like, when it does show some. Because Koji Kondo did, I think, help supervise some of it and arrange some of it. Even though he does, he's not the composer for this movie. He advised on it. And so, like, some of the flourishes that we get of that classic super Mario music is great, but I don't know why we didn't get more of it. There are just so many songs in the oeuvre of Mario to cut to. Pop culture songs made no sense. Like, look, no Sleep till Brooklyn while they're in Brooklyn sort of makes sense. Like when his alarm goes off near the end and it's a classic rock song. Sure. But, like, when they're in the Mushroom Kingdom, it should all be Mario music. I do.
(37:09):
Like, I didn't mention this before, that we did get the DK rap. What drove me crazy is Grant Kirkhope, a previous guest of Fun and Games and the composer who helped compose a lot of classic video game soundtracks, wrote that song for Donkey Kong 64 and was uncredited in the film. I think they may have since fixed it in the digital release. I know a bunch of folks were upset online, but I was sad and he was sad. He went to see the movie. He knew the rap was going to be in it. Seth Rogen, like, released a whole, like, Instagram video about how he loves the Donkey Kong rap and fought for it to be in the film. Like, it just. That kind of rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm glad it was in the movie. But I wanted more of that.
(37:49):
Like, there's no reason to not, like, you're partnering with Nintendo. They have some of the best compute composers working in video games use that music. And so, like, I would have totally, like, you know, underscored most of this film with just classic songs. Newer songs, like the. They allude to Mario Galaxy. And I think we even get kind of a sort of motif like that music during that scene when they're looking up the stars. But, like, wanted more of it. I just don't understand why they didn't lean into it or do those orchestrated version. Like, the whole final act when Mario and Luigi get the superstar. And then they have the star power. It starts as the basic Starman theme and then kind of swells out into this great orchestration as they kick Bowser's ass.
(38:30):
Like, I wanted more of stuff like that was recognizable and then kind of build it into maybe its own original stuff instead of just having all of these needle drops. That's like, yeah, we know that song. Great. Okay, sure. Yeah, like, that's. I think My strongest change. And then. So I want to look. So it was Koji Kondo and Brian Tyler. So Brian Tyler did the music, and then they credit Koji Kondo for the original Nintendo themes. Yeah, I think. I don't. It's not that I don't think Brian Taylor shouldn't have done this. If Koji Kondo had scored the whole film, it might have been a little strange. I think Brian Taylor did great integrations of Koji's work, so there should have been more of it. And then, like, I think I would remove the Kong set piece. I like Donkey Kong.
(39:15):
I like Cranky Kong. I thought both actors who played them actually did a good job. When I first heard that Seth Rogen was gonna play Donkey Kong, I was like, I. I like Seth Rogen well enough, but that, like, I know the laugh is his trademark, and I know that he's. He's actually a pretty decent actor, and he's pretty funny. He ended up surprising me. I did enjoy his performance here. He only did the laugh, like, a couple times, because, of course he did.
Sam (39:38):
Yeah.
Matt (39:39):
Like, I just think that maybe instead of having them go to the Kong kingdom for as long as they were maybe getting there and being shut out and then maybe sneaking into the castle and building their own carts to get away and still going on Rainbow Road, like, I think the set piece could have stayed without all the Kongs because it amounts to nothing anyway. And, like, all the scenes where Donkey Kong and Mario work together to get out of something, A lot of that setup Mario could have done on his own. Like, if he had explosives inside, like, there could have been a pile of Bob Ombs inside this eel that he's like, oh, I have an idea. Right? Or something like that. I just don't think the Kongs were really necessary to this story.
(40:22):
It's clear they want to spin it off into a separate thing. And, like, getting a Donkey Kong country film with King K. Rool and that lore would be so much fun, but it'd also be so different because in that world, like, Donkey Kong's at the top of the food chain. Cranky Kong is just his old father who is obnoxious and makes everyone upset. Like, there's no, like, royalty. And so I don't. I'm like, I feel like the Donkey Kong movie may be even less familiar to the source material than this movie was. But, like, that would be. My major change, is to find some way to get from, like, A to C without the B of the. The Mario kart race.
(40:58):
Or if we kept the Mario Kart race, remove the Kongs and had some other kind of stakes, or just Mario Peach and Toad running from them, you know, or whatever. I just think that the. The fight between Mario and Donkey Kong, though, fun because it's also a nod to the classic Donkey Kong game. Just, it all felt like, besides the jokes, completely unnecessary. Yeah.
Case (41:22):
And that's a shame that the fight with Donkey Kong is in a Donkey Kong country and like. Or, like, themed kind of battle arena. It would have been nice if it looked more like classic Donkey Kong, you know, like the red girders kind of design to it all. Which makes me wonder if it could have been like, Donkey Kong has, you know, snuck into the Mushroom Kingdom and is, like, taken over a building or something, and they have to, like, get him clear or something and return him to the Kong Kingdom and, you know, not have that be part of. Or maybe that's, like, how they, like, broker peace with the Kongs or something.
Matt (41:57):
But, yeah, just shortening that segment, maybe something.
Sam (42:01):
Yeah. He could have also been, like, tricked by Bowser and something, or, you know, part of the domination. I don't know. That would have been fun.
Case (42:09):
Yeah. Something where it's just like, okay, well, we have to buy, you know, we have to beat Donkey Kong to get a thing to win. Not necessarily that. Like, well, we have to beat Donkey. You know, it kind of feels like Game of Thrones y, where it's just like, well, we have to have a trial by combat in order to, like, bring this army to our side. Do you swear allegiance to me and, you know, become one of my fiefdoms?
Matt (42:32):
Right. And, like, the Kong army being the strongest army in the kingdoms, like, it just. It felt like they wanted to do that storyline before it was for the Kongs, and then they just put the Kongs in that place because they were characters that could be used, you know, that kind of thing.
Sam (42:48):
Yeah.
Case (42:49):
I also don't love Fred Armisen as Cranky Kong. Like, I. I really just.
Matt (42:54):
That's.
Case (42:54):
I, like, it didn't ruin it for me, but it just wasn't my favorite choice for that part.
Matt (43:00):
Yeah, I think that literally any older actor would have been a great Cranky Kong. Someone crotchety and complaining. Honestly, you know, I think Ian McKellen would have been an excellent Cranky Kong because he would just kind of do the kind of magneto, like, kind of raspy voice and, like, commanding. But, like, I think that a voice like that. Or Patrick Stewart as Cranky Kong, like, yeah, like, these older actors being kind of crotchety and mean. I mean, we've been able to see Patrick Stewart do that in like stuff like American dad and stuff. So I feel like he'd be a really good cranky.
Case (43:33):
And he's down for video game stuff. He was in oblivion.
Matt (43:37):
Yeah. He was also the voice of the poop emoji in the emoji movie. So, you know, paychecks and paycheck.
Case (43:45):
I guess his game is the. Is the point.
Matt (43:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I. I think that's the major stuff I would change because I think the intro, while I don't love the family scenes, they're short enough. And I don't know how we else we'd convey that. I mean, I feel like they could have failed without doing that. I do like that Mario is fighting for his dad's approval. I think that, you know, and it gives him and Donkey Kong something like the way it's worked into the film. It makes sense. I think if we change some stuff like Donkey Kong and Mario not having that reconciling moment about their dads and things, maybe we would shift it. But it did make sense for what we had.
Sam (44:19):
Right.
Matt (44:20):
I think the. I think the whole final act is perfect. I think the way Mario rescues them, the stuff with the giant bullet bill, the getting the superstar, the hero's journey nonsense. Right. Like all of this amounts to the hero's journey. Mario thinking he's failed but still getting up again, Luigi saving him to show Luigi's arc. Like all that stuff works really well. I just think a lot of the stuff in the middle could have been streamlined or even changed a little to make it feel more like just a Mario movie, not a Mario and Donkey Kong movie. Mario is still the main character and it does focus around his. His world and his story. But I think the Kongs had too much airtime for what amounted to not be their movie.
(45:00):
But again, I think you make a good point case that the reason Donkey Kong is there is they did want that four player action which is actually really popular in the newer 2D Mario games.
Case (45:10):
Which also as a side note, if all the new four player Mario games had Donkey Kong as one of the playable characters, I would be playing those all the time.
Matt (45:18):
I would too. Yeah. But I think. No, but I do think that it made sense to have him as like a fourth player for that, like team up and maybe we'll get something different in follow ups. But yeah, like I don't have it. Like ultimately I do enjoy this film. You know, I think it's just kind of bland and face value, right? It's nothing. It is not the Fallout TV show. It is not the Last of us. It's not. And not everything needs to be. But even Sonic and Detective Pikachu, I feel like, at least did something to do, like, tried something different, even if it didn't always work. Whereas this was just kind of samey and paint by numbers, which I think is its greatest flaw.
Case (46:01):
Yeah, I think that's a very fair assessment. Sam, do you have notes that you would pitch in on this movie?
Sam (46:10):
I liked this movie. I mean, I do think. I do think that it is a little everything in the kitchen sink, right? Like, they're. They're giving us. They're hitting all the beats, and sometimes it feels like they were giving us everything they could possibly give us. Just in case, like. Like, we're. We're planning. We're hoping to have more movies, but just in case it doesn't work out, we're gonna hit all the greatest hits where we're gonna hit all of them. And so it does. It does do that. And I think, unfortunately, we live in a time where artistically, a lot of artistic people, Even with established IPs, like Mario Brothers, are worried because studios aren't really investing in anything that they think might fail. So I kind of give the movie a pass for throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.
(47:07):
I think in, like, an ideal world. Yeah. I think that Matt is correct with his notes. It'd be nice to lessen Donkey Kong, I think. I think it's. I think visiting him, like, stopping in and kind of asking or being shut out or even having him make a cameo in as, like, when Princess Peach is testing Mario. Maybe one of the things is taking back a building from Donkey Kong, who's been a nuisance. Right? And so you've got, like. Like, now's your final test, and you face Donkey Kong, which would have been fun and cool. And then you could have had a very small cameo from Cranky Kong where Donkey Kong goes home and Cranky Kong is like, failed again. And, like, leave. Leave it kind of for you to. To experience them in another thing. Just like a little nod, right?
(47:57):
I think that would have been fine. But, you know, we lose nothing by having the stuff there. It's just that now, then what happens is when you start to build out the world, that stuff becomes harder because you've already done so much. But again, I think a lot of companies are really just making movies to make their one off and just hoping that Somehow it'll hit gold. And so I kind of give them a pass putting everything. And. Because they finish strong, and that's what we really remember when we leave theater. This just becomes a really fun hero's journey introduction to their world. So. Yeah. No, but I am. I do agree with Matt. It would have been nice to have more Mario music in there, because I was delighted every time I heard any of the Mario music. I was like, oh.
(48:49):
So I think it would have been more fun. That's more for us. You know, it's fine. The movie is fine. The movie is fun. And if you rewatch it's fine and it's fun, and you're gonna laugh and you're gonna remember you're gonna miss. There's so many jokes. Like, there's jokes on jokes in this film. So, like, they'll be like, you'll be on your third rewatch. You'll be like, I missed that joke last time. That's hilarious. So I will give it high marks on that. And again, this movie was good because it was short and it was funny and it was colorful. So that's it.
Matt (49:26):
Yeah.
Case (49:27):
Yeah. I likewise sort of come away from this being like, well, it's. It's very small, like, adjustments that could have been made. Like the. The movie itself. You know, like we said, it's Mario paint by numbers. It is. Here's all the beats that we need to have to get through the story to do all the lore stuff and to fit in all the. The details. And it looks really good. You know, while. Yeah, like, Donkey Kong being a smaller part would have been nice. And, like, you know, maybe it, like, have a different, like, Mario McGuffin in there somewhere. We kind of get the penguins and we get the castle from Mario 64. It would have been nice to see, like, a little bit more of that era, specifically. Or maybe like the flood pack.
Matt (50:03):
We got King Bob omb.
Case (50:05):
That's true. That was very good. Especially when he, like, sat down on the turtle shell and had to stop it. Again, sight gags are great in this movie, like, from every parent who has their kid watching it with them kind of situation. Like, this is great for those parents, you know, is it necessarily going to be, like, the richest experience of all time? No, but I think that we are looking at a pretty solid movie that did really well at the box office. It had 100 million and it took in 1.3 billion. You know, I think it's fair to say that it was pretty successful.
Matt (50:38):
Yeah, easily.
Case (50:39):
But it's also exactly what you would expect when you hear that it, like, it's an illumination Mario movie, you know? Yeah. It's exactly what you're picturing when you think about any of those parts there. It's just an effective version of that. So, yeah, I don't have big notes. They're all, like, small details. Most of the notes I have are gushing about like, oh, that's a cute sequence. Like, oh, hey, Luigi's mansion. Love the 2D segment here. Yeah. And it makes me want to play the game. And I think that might be the area which is that I enjoyed this, but I also wasn't chomping at the bit to see this. And the games now are doing a better job of having these. This kind of a story in there, but also you get to play it.
(51:18):
So there's also that element which is like, does this need a sequel? I don't know if it does.
Matt (51:23):
Like, no. I mean, I think that's the biggest complaint I have. And something that friend of the network, Patrick H. Willems, said in his video about this movie is that it never feels like you're playing. Like there's action, but it just doesn't feel very. Like it's hard to convey that. And I don't know that there's a quick solution to it. But, like, the moments when it feels like the games, it still doesn't quite. Because you can't control it. And there's not always really a way to convey that. But there could have. Like I said, the story could have been more batshit or more thoughtful or whatever to kind of, like, fill that space. But it never really lives up to playing the game because, like, yeah, this feels like Mario, but, like, it's the sentiment you just had, Case.
(52:06):
Like, I could watch this again, or I could just literally play any video game they've made in the last 10 years. And it'll probably be more fun because I'm playing it.
Case (52:14):
So that's like kind of my only, like, big note, which is just that, like, it's not. It's not the video game.
Matt (52:23):
Yeah.
Case (52:23):
And it's not. It's not 1993 anymore where we needed to have this sort of, like, fleshed out, like, story to go along with a game that was, like, very surface like this. You know, it's a very different era now. The games are extremely detailed with cutscenes that are, you know, full sequences and, like, lots of story that. That happens in game and. And all that. And, like, does this look that much Better than, you know, Mario Odyssey. I. I mean it certainly looks better, but it's, you know, we're. It's certainly diminishing returns.
Matt (52:54):
Yeah, I mean, well, it's like when Super Mario Wonder came out last year, I believe like the art style was more like kind of artistic and like looked like hand drawn animations more so than like the 3D Mario games. And I think going in that stylistic direction makes sense because this movie also made stylistic choices like showing the stitching on the outfits and like redesigning some of the clothes. And like, I think if you're going to recreate the stuff, you have to do something a little different with it. Otherwise it just feels kind of samey. It's clear that they were trying to push for a little bit of realism in like the clothes and the. Some of the character designs, but also just kind of bringing to life these characters games.
Case (53:35):
But all that said, I am very glad to finally watch it. And so I do very much appreciate you bringing this movie to us.
Sam (53:42):
Yeah, thanks Matt.
Matt (53:44):
Happy to. I'm glad that you guys enjoyed it. I did too. But don't worry, when I come back after the Venom trilogy is over and we watch the other two films, there'll be plenty to hate.
Case (53:53):
We got to have you back on for Venom 2 at some point soon. It's good just to finally get you back on. It's been too long.
Matt (53:59):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
Sam (54:01):
I have to admit something. I have not even seen the first Venom.
Matt (54:04):
Yeah, right. Because that was also. That's going to be another apap because.
Sam (54:08):
So I will be watching it for the first time when I. We do that as another pass at another past.
Matt (54:14):
Amazing. I love those stupid ass movies. I cannot champion them enough. And so I will eventually come back and do two. Maybe we'll aim for. I mean three is out this. This fall, so maybe early next year we'll aim for covering the sequel so we can gear up for the third ones, maybe video release or whatever if they still put things on video. But yeah, this was great. Thanks for having me. I'm glad you guys both enjoyed it. I feel like with a movie like this because it's just so by the numbers. It could go either way. Right. I can see why people wouldn't like this because they'd be bored or like all of its kind of like, you know, just kind of even. But I'm glad that you both enjoyed it.
(54:55):
I think if you just get lost in the nostalgia, that enough can carry you through this film and it is worth seeing. Even if it's not the perfect Mario movie, it's definitely better than the live action Mario movie. As much as I still look at the movie fondly, this is definitely.
Case (55:11):
There's actually a surprising number of similarities in terms of structure, which yes, I was actually quite happy with because this movie came very close to when we did a pitch for that movie. And. And this is like doing that. Exactly. But better. So that's. That was very cool. And. And I. I love the 93 movie in somewhat of an ironic way. We'll say yeah, but yeah, certainly had a lot of fun. Matt, when you're not punching blocks on this podcast to gain power ups, where can people find you and follow you?
Matt (55:44):
So the best place to find me is@dj stormageddon.com you can also follow me on most social media as djstormageddon. These days I still host two podcasts on this network. The first is a video game podcast called Fun and Game. Well, they're both video game podcasts actually, but the first one is more broad video games called Fun and Games. I host it with Jeff Moonan. We do broad topic based discussions all about celebrating the games industry, pointing out the flaws in some of the systems within it and trying to make the gaming space a better place. We've had composers on developers, we've done retrospectives. Way back when we had Case on for a Mega man retrospective which was a ton of fun.
Case (56:23):
That's such a specific episode to pull by the way of like times the Case has been on.
Matt (56:28):
Yeah, it was the one that I remembered. I know you've been on since then, but that was the one that popped back into my brain. But we have a ton of other stuff that we've covered. We also have done Sidequests, which is a sub series that I came up with where different host. Every episode talks about a game and why they love it. Case has done literally too many to name, but the most recent one Case did I believe was on Streets of Rage, a great game, which is a great game. The whole franchise of Streets of Age is great. If I had to rank them, It'd probably be 2, 4, 1 and then 3, because 3 is the worst one. But it was a great episode and so you should definitely go check that out.
(57:01):
And then the other show I host is with the incredible Frankie Bradley Lestrange. It's called Reignite. Started as a Mass Effect podcast. We've now gone on to the Dragon Age franchise and are playing Dragon Age 2. And as of when we're recording this because I don't know by the time you hear it. We are current with a modern release of a video game of franchise recovering because the Veil Guard, Dragon Age's newest entry is coming out this fall. Again, you may be hearing this after that, but as of when we're recording in August. We're very excited to be able to cover news about a franchise that we're talking about because it is literally never happened in the other five seasons. So that's been a joy.
(57:36):
And if you like talking about story decisions and why we make the choices we make and more importantly the characters we romance, you should definitely listen to Reignite as well.
Case (57:46):
Well, that's great. People should check out both of those shows. They've both been longtime parts of the network and I can't shout them out enough. They're both fantastic works that I do the episode art for, so I am biased. But we work together because we love each other's work.
Matt (58:04):
True.
Case (58:05):
Now Sam, where can people find you and follow you outside of this?
Sam (58:09):
Well, everyone can find me here and occasionally I remember our Discord exists so there. But other than that I'm going to be in a cage with Lumi kind of contemplating just the nothingness of life. So I will not be able to receive any complaints about anything I may have said today. So if you have any complaints about it, Lumi and I do not care. But if you really need to just express it to someone, you can find ksat.
Case (58:37):
Well if you need to discuss it with someone who is not pondering the sweet release of death, you can find me on all the platforms Sam mentioned our Discord. That is a great place to find me. Our Discord server can be found. We have links on our website@ certainpowe.com or all over the Internet. It's a great place to come interact with us. We have lively conversations about books, comics, movies. It's a great time and has really picked up a lot of speed in the last like year and a half or so. Like I I it's a really fun place to be just in general. So like love our Discord server.
(59:11):
Like please check me out there, check us all out there and then at the socials you can find me all the places with the AT symbols at Case Aiken except for Instagram where I'm holding on to my aim screen name from high school for dear life where you can find me at quetzalcoatl5 because I was pretentious back then too. Meanwhile, you can find more episodes of this show on our YouTube channel, Certain POV Media. You can find full episodes of this. You can find full episodes of Men of Steel, you can find my Superman analog videos over there. You can find tons of stuff. So so check out the YouTube channel. If you're not watching this there and if you are watching this there, this is also a regular podcast.
(59:48):
So if you prefer a regular podcast player, just look for Another Pass or Men of Steel or any of our shows. And then when you are locked into what way you're watching this show, you can find us for our next episode. Sam, what is up next?
Sam (01:00:03):
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
Geoff (01:00:11):
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode, just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com Another pass is.
Sam (01:00:24):
A certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sophia Richardi. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri and our outro theme is by Matt Bro.
But yeah, I mean, I think that this movie, to bring up your point about like the parents beats and stuff like that, it feels a bit Mario paint by numbers and like, you know, it's just here's the scene that we need to have for the sake of getting them there. And that's. That's probably the biggest sin of this movie in general.
Geoff (00:25):
Welcome to certain Another Past podcast with Case and Sam where we take another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them.
Case (00:39):
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Another Past podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my co host Sam Alicea.
Sam (00:46):
Hi.
Case (00:48):
And Sam, do you like mushrooms?
Sam (00:51):
Yes, yes I do.
Case (00:52):
Good. I do too. I think that they are a balanced part of every diet.
Sam (00:57):
High in fiber.
Case (00:58):
You know, honestly I like them a lot. I could have them most meals. I could honestly live in a kingdom of mushrooms as it were. And that's great because today we are talking about the Super Mario Bros. Movie, the new one, the 2023 one. And obviously for that conversation we are joined by Matthew, also known as Stormageddon.
Matt (01:22):
Yes, hello. I'm happy to be back. It's been a minute. I think the last time I was on was for Sonic. Right. So I've clearly got a pattern at this point.
Case (01:32):
Oh yeah. And prior to that there had been so many team ups between the Fun and Games podcast and us doing video game movies. It made sense for you to be on for the video game movie. It honestly would be weird if were talking about this movie without you.
Matt (01:45):
It's true, it's true. It's like it's in. My contract is I have to come back for every video game movie. Right.
Case (01:50):
That was part of your golden parachute when you left the show.
Matt (01:52):
I do wish this podcast had a video version though, so the audience could see how hard I rolled my eyes at the intro. But like, you know, it's just, I'm readjusting. I'm re acclimating, so it's fine. I just had to share it for the audio listener.
Case (02:04):
What, you think you have a power up that you could give it exactly right? Or rather we could get really meta and this could be you giving another pass at my. Another pass like intro.
Matt (02:14):
No, no, no, no. We, we all have stuff to do today, Case.
Case (02:17):
Yeah. And one of those things is talk about this movie and I'm going to just like come out and say it. I hadn't seen this movie not of want just for. I just one of those I figured I would watch it eventually situations and it just was never pressing. I ended up really liking this movie. I think it kind of just did everything that I wanted a Mario movie to do.
Sam (02:38):
It's fun movie and it's short, so that's nice.
Matt (02:42):
Yeah, it's fun. Fun fact. I saw this in theaters and I saw it with CPOV member Keith from. Oh my God. I'm blanking.
Case (02:53):
Music.
Matt (02:53):
Thank you. Yeah.
Case (02:54):
Jukebox Vertigo.
Matt (02:56):
Vertigo. Yeah. I don't know why it fel my head. I love you Keith. But yeah, I was. He was still living in Arizona at the time last year when this came out and I was visiting for Passover and seeing my in laws and I wrote him like, you want to go see a movie? He's like, yeah. And so went to see because also Sarah had no interest in seeing this movie, bless her. So I was like, let's go see it. And so went to see it together. We had a blast. And yeah, I mean I really like it. I think most of my caveats have come after watching it more than once going, this could have been better. But it was still pretty good. I mean, I think what saves it from being bad is the runtime.
(03:30):
Like it moves so quickly through everything and it's kind of like, ooh, shiny. Ooh, shiny. Ooh, shiny. And it was also designed for folks of our age. Yeah, a number I won't state out loud for anyone, but this movie was like for little kids and folks of our age, like the Nintendo dorks who grew up playing these games. But no, I enjoy it too. I just. I wish, I just wish it leaned more into like, I don't know, the story of Mario. Which feels very weird to say out loud since the early games barely had a story.
Case (04:03):
Well, this movie feels very much like the early games in terms of the story approach. Like this feels a lot like the stuff that you would see on like the Super Mario Bros. Super show. Or like it's the spin off when they did Mario 3 and then Super Mario World. Like those cartoons that they put out there. Like this feels like a really high budget, really well made version of that where it's you. Brooklyn. Brooklyn Plumbers like sucked down. Like that's the intro sequence for. For all the Super Mario cartoons and like sucked down into the Mushroom Kingdom. And then the world of the Mushroom Kingdom in this is very much like it's Mario 3D world esque. Particularly with like the clear Pipes.
(04:41):
But the good news about that is that Mario 3D world was like a perfect 3D version of like, what we had been seeing in like, Super Mario Brothers 3 and super, you know, Super Mario World and like, what we kind of consider like the classic staples of Mario movies.
Matt (04:54):
Yeah. And I also like the plot as far as, like, Bowser wanting to marry the princess. And all of that is from previous cartoons. It's from the latest game, Mario Odyssey, the latest 3D game. Like, that was the plot. He kidnapped the peach to marry. To marry her. And so, like. And that, you know, having Jack Black as Bowser made that a lot of fun. I think that the all star cast members here are definitely Bowser and Princess Peach like Charlie Day a lot too.
Case (05:20):
Chris.
Matt (05:21):
Chris Pratt wasn't awful in this. I think he was just fine, like, when he's really into it towards the end of the film and, like, really acting like Mario, it was more fun, but he was just kind of just delivering a performance.
Case (05:33):
I got to admit, his bar was very low.
Matt (05:36):
Yeah.
Case (05:36):
For, for me, because I was coming in assuming that this was going to be like, you know, the, the. The Internet was not a big fan of him being cast in this part.
Matt (05:45):
Right.
Case (05:45):
And so there was a lot of backlash at the time. And then, like, then I actually watched him like, oh, it's actually, you know, pretty tame. Like, he's. He's not just doing Chris Pratt voice. He's doing a bit of a Mario voice. It's not, you know, any. It's still mostly Chris Pratt, but, like, you know, like, there's actual acting going on beyond what I was expecting.
Sam (06:03):
Right. But it's not so, you know, Mario that he's like. To me. So it didn't feel too much like a caricature, you know, that would have possibly made people go, what is wrong with that guy?
Case (06:17):
Right.
Matt (06:17):
Yeah, I, you know, there was a lot of hubbub about Charles Martinet, the voice of. Who had been the voice of Mario for like 30 plus years more, wasn't cast in this. He plays Mario's dad and he also plays Giuseppe, the guy who sounds like Mario early in the movie. Right. And theory was that Charles Martinet doing that because Mario doesn't talk a ton in the games, and when in the RPGs, it's them speaking like Italian gibberish. So it's more like. And so, like, that doesn't get grading. But the Mario voice from the new Modern 3D Mario games for an hour and a half, Might have. That's a theory. I don't know for a fact that was the case. I am glad that Charles Martinet was in the film and got to be a normal voiced person as well as.
(07:03):
And like making the father of the voice of Mario the father of Mario in the game is a very clever nod and I'm sure very much on purpose, which was. Was, was lovely.
Case (07:14):
Well, and then also we. We get that opening sequence with the. The Super Mario Bros. Commercial where they're. They're putting on that voice much more so. And it might. I couldn't actually tell on my watch if that was Chris Pratt or if that was.
Matt (07:26):
It was. Yeah, it was. It was still Chris Pratt and. And Charlie Day. Although fun fact, Charles Martinet does voice both brothers as well as Wario and Waluigi and a bunch of other characters. Or he did anyway. But yeah, no, I do like that the commercial had the original Super Mario super show song in it. They, you know, they shot it. Fun fact, the voice of the woman who sink. They're plunging. Is the original Princess Peach from the Super Mario Super Show. Oh. They brought her to play that woman in the commercial, which you don't get enough to really know, but I double checked and looked it up. But yeah, I thought that was fun. Is that they kind of brought her in as like a. To pay homage to the classic Princess Peach, which was fun.
Case (08:04):
Okay. This is the character who has the line of the only thing it doesn't drain is my wallet. And then like, it's like a weird look at the script.
Sam (08:11):
It's like such a wonderful reading of it too. Like you're like, yeah, this is a bad. This is a bad commercial. I love it.
Matt (08:20):
Yeah. I mean, I think that the opening to set the scene is. Is pretty good. And like the giving the stakes to the Mario Brothers and who they are is good. I like when they were running late to their first appointment. Like they show it side as a side and they make it like the layout looks similar to a stage in the Mushroom Kingdom. Like that kind of stuff is clever. I think that, like, I just think like the plumbing scene. Like I get the importance of them failing so they go home and then like their parents are mean to them and all of that. But it just all felt like either too rushed or not enough. I can't decide which it is. It just kind of felt there and like we're accepting it because it's just kind of the.
(08:58):
They're there to get them to the Mushroom Kingdom. I do like that, like in the old live action Mario movie that they go into the sewer and there's all these pipes. Like, the fact that the mushroom kingdom getting there is always just a series of pipes under Brooklyn.
Case (09:13):
It's a series of tubes. Yeah. No, I have a note that I like that. That big pipe facility that they go. That they go into when they first go into the sewers. It looks very much like an updated take on like the original Mario Bros. Game.
Matt (09:28):
Yeah.
Case (09:28):
As opposed to Super Mario Bros. Like the one where they're just in the sewers and they're dodging turtles and fireballs. And this is like one of my, like, few spots where I'm like, oh, I could have used like a little bit more of a nod if there was like a Koopa or like, you know, in shadow or something like having come through the. The tube there. But that. That's like a super minor detail on that one. And like I said, I. I'm not even positive that it is supposed to be a nod to the original Mario Bros. It just kind of feels that way. And this, like, movie really feels like they're. It's stuffed with that kind of stuff. So I'm gonna assume.
Matt (10:01):
But.
Case (10:01):
But yeah, I mean, I think that this movie, to bring up your point about like, the. The parents beats and. And stuff like that, it feels a bit Mario paint by numbers. And like, you know, it's just here's the scene that we need to have for the sake of getting them there. And that's. That's probably the biggest end of this movie in general. Like, it, like everything in this movie is like a very basic story that then has, like, good jokes for adults and it's like bright visuals and stuff for kids. And like, the fact that it's a PG movie is probably only because we have that intensely nihilistic sun creature or star creature.
Sam (10:38):
I love the Luminance star. I would die for that star. I'm pretty sure that the star would be happy to hear that because that's what the star likes. I love it. I love it. I love it.
Matt (10:50):
Yeah, that's one of the Lumas. They're from the Mario Galaxy games and they're part of like, Princess Rosalina's crew. And what's interesting about that is, like, so there's theories that Princess Rosalina is that Rosalina is actually related to Princess Peach and is the daughter of but got sent to another galaxy or something. And so it's just very funny to me that, like, when they're in the fireflower Field, which is such a cool visual. And then she's looking up at the stars and saying, well, there's a lot of galaxies up there for one. It's alluding to Mario Galaxy a little heavy handedly, which is fine. But also alluding to those rumors because I don't think Nintendo's ever come out and say it, that there's some kind of relate, like parental relationship somehow between Rossalina and Princess Peach. But yeah, I love that Luma.
(11:35):
I like those scenes. So I think that what this movie does do well is what Keis was saying is that the comedy beats hit really well. Like the opening scene with the giant floating island hitting landfall and like Bowser's troops coming out and getting ready to attack. And then the doors opening up with giant shadows to the penguin knights and they just go all in like they're going to wage this epic war. And then it's just they're throwing snowballs and it barely phases Bowser. Like it's such a good comedy beat there. That does really set the tone for the movie. And I think the biggest sin of this film is that it's a basic plot that's going from set piece to like for fanfare, right? Like, here's a thing, you know, here's another thing, you know, here's another thing, you know.
(12:21):
But it doesn't feel like a full commitment because while they do that, they still use a ton of like pop music as needle drops, which is fine. But like the stuff that Koji Kondo has composed for all of the Mario games is relegated to like small moments. Like the Mario Kart theme when they're driving or like the star theme that's orchestrated in when they get the superstar at the end, things like that. But like, they could have like, for example, my biggest gripe is so when they get to the Kong kingdom and they're confronted and then taken in the cart to go see Cranky Kong played by Fred Armisen, which I still think is the funniest casting in the entire film, but not awful. Like they play Take On Me, which is a great song.
(13:02):
But they could have played the Donkey Kong country theme by David Wise. Or they could have played literally Donkey Kong's theme from the original Donkey Kong game or some like techno version of it. Or like it just feels like a waste to play Take On Me there. Or like holding out for a hero when Mario's training, when there are a million Mario songs that are high pitched, like high paced and like get you moving. I just it didn't make sense to me to not use any of that.
Case (13:28):
Well, and like, I had a note of a similar one, which is that they play no Sleep till Brooklyn when. During the 2D segment when they're trying to get to that first that. The first plumbing job. And it's just like, oh, that's so weird that they. The same year as guardians of Galaxy 3, which has like a big no Sleep Till Brooklyn number as well.
Sam (13:44):
Like, right.
Case (13:45):
Oh, it's just in the Zeitgeist. And then I was watching a review of this movie that said that, like, holding out for a Hero had been used three times in, like, in three weeks of movies that they had reviewed. And I was like, oh, I wonder which ones. But like, also, yeah, maybe just like, these are all the needle drops that are in the Zeitgeist at the moment. And they could have done tracks from the. From the video games.
Matt (14:03):
Yeah. I mean, they feel holding out for hero feels on the nose, which I get. And like, I think the biggest success of this film is that the princess is never a damsel in distress. And thank God for that.
Sam (14:14):
Yeah.
Matt (14:16):
The fact that Princess Peach is like a butt kicking princess and Mario has to learn and Luigi is the damsel in distress, I liked better. I missed having Luigi in the whole film because folks can't see. But I'm wearing a Luigi hat as we speak. He's my favorite. But we got enough at the end that I felt sort of satisfied. But it was. It did stink that he was kind of gone for half the film. But I do like that the princess wasn't like, didn't need to be rescued even at the end. Like, she rescues herself and then Mario gets there.
Case (14:43):
Right?
Sam (14:44):
Yeah.
Matt (14:45):
And I appreciate all that.
Sam (14:46):
Well, without Luigi being captured, we wouldn't have had such a wonderful, you know, moment with Lumi. So I'm. I'm okay with that. I'm fine. Like, all the prisoners actually, like, because, like, that's kind of vital to, like, us knowing exactly what Bowser's been doing, you know, because we see our open set piece, you know, lose to Bowser. We don't know what happened to him. Now we know, right? Everyone's just in cages over lava and, like, just waiting for whatever he has planned, apparently is a wonderful sacrificial gift to his future bride. So this a man of romance.
Matt (15:26):
Yeah, Obviously. Just. Just a bleeding heart.
Sam (15:29):
Yeah, yeah. Nothing says any like love, like a wedding sacrifice.
Case (15:36):
Go on, Matt, you were about to say something.
Matt (15:38):
I was just gonna say also, while we're talking about the music a little bit, I do have to say that, like, I couldn't believe how many people were surprised that Jack Black broke out into the song. I mean, you hire Jack Black, like, he's gonna sing. He sings in most. Like, I'm sure Po in the. In the Kung Fu Panda films have sung. Has sung quite a few times. But like, if you hire a video game nerd such as Jack Black to play a video game character, he's going to write a romance song. And the fact that it was nominated for a Grammy and. And that he made a live action music video to it, like, it was just. It's great. It's ridiculous. And I don't. That is a joke, though. That is for the adults in the room.
(16:14):
Like, I just don't understand what a kid makes of. Why is Bowser singing about Princess Peach? I don't understand. Like, like, maybe they get it, but I think that whole bit is a joke for the adults in the room.
Case (16:24):
I mean, I think they sell his, like, romance and then they have like that menacing scene with him, like, jamming with. With the mage Koopa.
Sam (16:33):
Yeah.
Matt (16:34):
Kamek.
Case (16:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (16:35):
He's doing the Dunna na na.
Case (16:37):
Yep.
Sam (16:39):
Because, like, it's not about to be happy and he knows it. I actually really enjoyed that scene.
Case (16:45):
Yeah. So his musical talents are set up pretty well. And then like I said, like, I, you know, I feel like they. They sell the. The romance or at least his like, passions for Peach pretty well. There's the whole bit of like, don't you hate her? Yes, but that just makes the love, like, stronger or whatever the line is.
Sam (17:04):
So, like, when he's like, ready to conquer her, like him, like, being shy with like, his little, like, Venus fly drafts, like he's like, going on a real date. Like, just for that one moment, I was like, oh, no, Sam. That's not an awe moment. I don't know. They did play it up for, like, there were moments where you're like, maybe never. Never.
Matt (17:27):
Yeah. I mean, it's funny that I think casting Jack Black as Bowser and us knowing that we're getting a Donkey Kong movie at some point and also a sequel to this, I'm sure, like in all the Super Mario RPG games, Bowser is some kind of half villain. Right? Like, he hates Mario, but they end up working together often in those, like, RPG games. And so, like, him kind of being in love with Peach and like, wanting no one to kidnap Peach but him does lay the groundwork for some kind of team up in the second film against a bigger threat or something. Which could be fun because, like, as much as I don't know why they shoehorned Donkey Kong into this film, I didn't mind Seth Rogen's performance of him. And I did, like, the like, kind of competitive rival ness of it.
(18:15):
I thought they're, they played off each other well, especially like when they're inside the eel. And so, like, I didn't mind it. And so I could see a longer form, like kind of buddy cop film like that happening.
Case (18:26):
Yeah, it did seem strange that Donkey Kong was so influential to the third act. Like, it made sense enough for Donkey Kong to have an appearance. Like Mario's first appearance is in Donkey Kong. So, like. Right, that part makes sense. But yeah, for it to be like, oh, well, we need the Kong army. That's how we're going to overcome the whole thing. As opposed to, like, this is a detour on their mission to whatever, to like, overcome the whole thing, you know.
Matt (18:49):
Well, right. And it also ends up being pointless. The Kong army gets kidnapped and basically Mario, Donkey Kong and Peach defeat everybody and Toad. And so, like, I don't, Yeah, I, I, I would. I, I had alluded to this earlier, but the k. The Mario Kart scene is awesome. When they're picking their karts and they're building it like you do in the new in Mario Kart 8, by selecting each piece, like, brilliant. But you know, and even getting to hear a little bit of Rainbow Road once they hit it. Like, all of that is really cool. And like, the fight on Rainbow Road is really cool. And seeing the carts turn into hover bikes, which is also from the newest Mario Kart.
(19:26):
Like, all of that is really fun, but I feel like serves no purpose other than for a way to the Kong army to get kidnapped. Because Peach doesn't even get kidnapped, then she still makes it home. She decides to defend her kingdom and then acquiesces. So, like, I feel like we could have put something else there or saved Mario Kart for another movie or something. It just didn't seem to make sense. I don't know what else I put there.
Case (19:49):
I mean, it just felt like a required action beat and like, it was just like we need some kind of sequence that is, you know, highly, you know, visually interesting for the kids to watch. And it can't be too violent. Oh, Mario Kart. That's a fun, you know, nod. And they need to travel. Okay, that, you know, puts it all together. I, I kind of agree that it doesn't really do much and like the tension of a rate, you know, it's not a race for starters, so there's no tension there. It's just like. It's a Mad Max style chase kind of sequence once the Koopas get involved. But yeah, it does. It doesn't do a lot for it. I.
(20:23):
It does have like some of the those nods and it's like fan service for the adults and like I said, an action beat for the kids and that's kind of it. I mean this movie is chock full of fan service for the adults. And like I do want to shout out that we do have like the fact that Toad is a major character in this is really nice. You know, Donkey Kong kind of replaces Luigi in the quartet of the Mario 2 group, which is a little bit of a bummer. I mean it's fine, but it's just nice to get. It's. It's nice to have Mario, Peach and Toad traveling as. As an adventuring party. Like that's like oh, right.
(20:54):
That you know, I all of a sudden, you know, heard like the da da da da da da da like music in my head of like the Mario 2 select screen, you know, like. Yeah, that was great. I loved by the way that the Peach floated was usually just because Mario would look at her with like a movie style slow mo scene and that was usually when she was like jumping over something and that was like her like floaty jump.
Matt (21:19):
Yeah, I like that. Toad was a major character. I thought Keegan Michael Key did a great job as Toad. He was actually quite charming and not annoying as Toad can sometimes be, especially with the way his voice is played in the games, the modern games. But it is was a bit of a bummer that the first time I watched it that he didn't even know Peach and that they hadn't met yet and then they meet in this adventure. But like by the end of my REW today I was like, no, actually I think it's fun to kind of give Toad a little bit of an origin story. Being one of the bravest toads and then becoming Peaches like Ally. And now going forward he'll be the Toad that's always with Peach. Like it was an unnecessary origin story.
(21:58):
But on a rewatch it didn't seem like it was a poor choice. And I don't know how it would get there a different way other than them already Being acquainted before he meets Mario.
Sam (22:09):
And I do like the choice if they are looking towards a possibility of building this out into more because then that gives you more of a. You know, because now he has a history, so there's a possibility to kind of build that stuff out if you really need to.
Matt (22:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Case (22:28):
And I. I think that the relationship, they already had enough of one where he knew that she was his princess and that she was. And that he was one of her subjects, you know?
Matt (22:36):
Right.
Sam (22:37):
Yeah.
Case (22:37):
As an aside, every time that she said my toads, it sounded like. It sounded in my brain like my dudes.
Matt (22:44):
Oh, absolutely.
Case (22:45):
And like, every time it's like my toads. Listen to me. I was like my dudes.
Matt (22:50):
I do like also fan servicey stuff that we got to see when Mario was moving through the Mushroom kingdom of like ATMs where you hit a coin block to get the coins and they're carrying the coins around or like antiques. And it's a bunch of like 8 bit and 16 bit items from the different games. Like.
Sam (23:08):
Yeah, the.
Matt (23:09):
It's clear that the. That Matthew Fogel, who wrote this, is a fan of Mario, if not an avid player of the games, at least familiar enough with the source material to make those kinds of gags. And like, were never going to get a bad movie out of this because Shigeru Miyamoto was one of the producers along with the head of illumination. Like, so he was personally overseeing it. Whereas they just sold the rights in the first movie and then absolutely did nothing to promote that movie because they hated it. So like it's a. It's a different animal here. And so like, the characterizations are pretty good. And it's. It does what like, I think the most.
(23:46):
Most mediocre comic book movies that I love do, which is like, even if it doesn't feel completely true to the source material, it is like the world feels real, the characters feel real, you know, in like your Venoms or the Sonic movie I mentioned earlier, which I think this is a little stronger for, because it's animated film.
Case (24:04):
Yeah. I was gonna push back a little bit on the like, true to the source material. I'm like, I'm. I'd say this feels like shockingly true to the source material for a movie, you know?
Matt (24:13):
Right. I think that's. It is like they can only get so exacting, but like, because also the characters are played really well, all the supporting characters, the main characters. That just fully sells the bit, as it were, I think, and makes it really work. I Just wish were able to get to the final act in a different way than like the training montage. Fine. It's a bit. It's a gag. That's fine. But then to do an almost similar obstacle course with Donkey Kong and the Kongs and like also the Kong kingdom. Like, I know why they have it. Like Donkey Kong is, I would say, almost as popular as Mario, especially the modern Donkey Kong country stuff. But it just felt a little forced into this movie. Especially since they're now going to do a Donkey Kong movie. Like, why didn't they.
(25:00):
They could have Avengers style. Like had like a Donkey Kong cameo and then done a full Donkey Kong movie separately. I don't know. It's. I can't decide if I do or don't like the fight scene. I think it's fun. The gags they tell in it, like Mario getting absolutely trounced and then getting the mini mushroom and then getting the cat suit and like working in as many power ups as they did, like the tanuki suit and all of that, I found that really fun. The fire flower, the ice flower. Like, I wonder if we're going to get elephant Mario in the next movie since that's the latest power up in the most recent game, Mario Wonder. Which would be interesting to see animated elephant Mario. But yeah, I feel. I just, I can't put my finger on why they kind of bother me.
(25:44):
But like, I think some of the scenes just feel, I don't want to say cringy, I hate using that word, but just feel a little off. And like again, like when I rewatched it, I kind of fast forwarded through the whole plumbing scene at the beginning of the movie because the fighting with the dog and like it's establishing Luigi as a coward and them as screw ups. But I just, I hated that whole scene. It just felt too miniony to like illuminate core illumination style stuff, which, I mean, they're very successful movies, so what do I know? But I just, I kind of rolled my eyes at that whole thing. And like those kinds of moments are my biggest complaint.
Sam (26:17):
I feel like that scene, especially the beginning with the dog does feel very classic illumination. But it also for me, I was like in head, I was like, well, this one's for the kids. Like this scene right here, this is for the kid you brought with you. Because this is like classic. Like, this is the kind of thing that like 4 to like 6 year olds like will go wild for. Just like everything's going rough. Oh no. In the Water, you know, So I just kind of. That's how I accepted that. I was like, this is for the kids. Steph will be there for me later. And it was. You know, I think there's, like, a challenge when you're writing movies like this where. And I don't think, like, I think.
(27:01):
I don't want to sound like an old person standing on my front lawn waving at the clouds, but I do.
Case (27:07):
Think we should do that. I'm the youngest person on this call, which is wild.
Sam (27:11):
Wow. Wow.
Matt (27:13):
Rude.
Sam (27:14):
Rude. Oh, my God. But I. I think that there were things when I was a child, back in the before times in the 1900s, where. Where don't think that the movies were always solely written or even with consideration, written for children, but they were definitely marketed for children. And I think, like, I. I think in the last 10 years, I've seen a lot more children, like, children's films where, like. And even cartoons, where everything is just really very carefully sanitized and they make sure to kind of, like, not include those things. And so I do think that this movie walks a really good balance between still giving us the adult nods we need and the fan service for people who were born in the 1900s and are going to go see this because they grew up with this stuff.
(28:11):
And also, you know, stuff for the younger audience who is going to need Mario and Luigi fighting with a dog over toilet water and kind of walking that good balance. So I do think that, like, although, was it my favorite scene? No. And did I kind of think, like, these people are crazy. Why wouldn't you put your dog inside a room? Besides that. Besides that. I do think that's one of the things that this movie actually does a good job on. It keeps a short run time, a fast pace to keep the kids involved, jokes to make sure their parents are happy, and anyone without children going to see this are happy and kind of just keeps it moving along.
Matt (29:01):
Yeah, No, I agree. I think that the. The quick pace again, saves it from, like, if this were two hour, two and a half.
Sam (29:08):
Oh, my God, this. It'd be. It'd be.
Matt (29:10):
I put my head through it.
Case (29:11):
I mean, even if this were actually just 100 minutes, like, it's. It's 92 minutes, which is, yeah, like a very brisk pace. And even 10 minutes more of this would have started to feel rough. But, like, this is a good ratio of, like, inside jokes and, like, visual gags and, you know, big action set pieces that it keeps moving. And, you know, you get to the end of it all. And then for a movie released Easter weekend, we get an egg at the end.
Matt (29:42):
Yeah, the bonus credit scene is fun. And the fact that the voice. The voice actor who plays Yoshi in the games got uncredited. Does the Yoshi voices in the. Because we see Yoshi's a couple times. Yeah. I don't know what that bonus scene means. Like, it's meant to be like, oh, my God. And I just kind of went, okay, is a Yoshi gonna run wild in Brooklyn? I don't understand what this means. But, yeah, I think that the pace is what truly saves this film. And, like, I mean, there's. Like I said, there's a lot of fun stuff in it. I just think that some of that fillers to create a narrative, which is kind of necessary.
(30:22):
And I don't necessarily know how it change the narrative per se, but had we gotten any more of this or they had dragged it out, it definitely would have. It would have. We would have felt the weight of what they were trying to do. My highest praise for the film, though, is it's one of the most gorgeous animated films I've ever seen. And as a fan of the video games, especially the modern games, like, this is the best these characters have ever looked, right? And, like, yeah, kind of almost made me, like, when we talked about the Sonic film, in case you wanted a Sonic game based on the Sonic credit sequence at the end with the new sprites and stuff from the film, I kind of.
Case (30:57):
I wanted a level pack for Sonic.
Matt (30:59):
Mania, but, like, I would. I kind of do want Sonic. I do want a Super Mario. The movie. The game a little bit. Because, like, some of the set pieces were really cool in the film and everything did look really good.
Case (31:13):
Well, fortunately, most of the game is, like I said, Super Mario and 3D World. Yeah, like, that one is super close in a lot of ways, in good ways. And I will admit, like, watching this movie made me really want to, like, go play a bunch of Mario. Like, yeah, there's that.
Matt (31:30):
The intended effect, you know, this.
Case (31:32):
This movie feels very retro in that regard. Like, we mentioned the fact that it feels like the 80s version of the Mario lore, specifically like that it plays very much to, like, the way that Mario was marketed to us when were kids. Just the best version of that. You know, it's a lot like the. Like the Care Bears movie or the GI Joe movie or the original Transformers movie or the My Little Pony movie, you know, where it's like, here, we're gonna go play with all your friends in a fun Adventure. And it's going to look in this case look really good and have jokes for adults, which are two things that the 80s movies typically didn't have. And so it's like very, a very good modern update on that kind of thing.
(32:12):
But like, I don't, I, I mean obviously there's a lot of like toy pushing in modern media too. This one feels more so, like this one feels very 80s and just like how much it is like a toy and video game property that is getting a movie. You know, like it's an interesting, like, you know, anachronistic kind of movie, but at the same time it is fresh in a lot of ways. And so I think that they're doing a lot of good things. But there are a lot of elements of the movie that would have overstayed their welcome if this was longer.
Matt (32:46):
Yeah. And I mean there are moments that feel like they are selling a toy. Like all of the different Donkey Kong carts and Mario Karts and the power ups and the characters and the character moments. I mean they did sell a like, I think like 3 or 4 or 5 inch bowser that like sparked and blew like little fire and like was super articulate. I remember seeing. And it was like, you know, yay big. So like it obviously did sell toys. Like of course they weren't not going to make toys after they put out a Mario movie because they've been selling Mario toys for years. But making them specifically based on the movie. I mean, same with the Sonic movie. They were pedaling the versions of the characters from the film instead of just the video games too. So like it makes sense.
(33:33):
Everything is merchandising. Merchandising, to quote Spaceballs. But you know, I'm not surprised by it. But yeah, it did. I hadn't considered that. But case you're right, it does feel very like GI Joe or Transformers in that sense. Like let's put on a movie, but mostly we just want you to buy our stuff.
Case (33:49):
Yeah. And this is like the best version of that, correct? Yeah. On that note though, why don't we take a break, shout out one of the awesome shows on our network, possibly Fun and Games, which Matt, you were one of the co hosts.
Matt (34:03):
It would make sense.
Case (34:04):
That would make a lot of sense. And when we come back, why don't we talk about how this movie, despite being the best version of this kind of thing, could be even better.
Matt (34:13):
Video games are a unique medium.
Geoff (34:14):
They can tell stories, immerse us in.
Matt (34:17):
Strange fantastic worlds, blur the very boundaries of our reality. But at the end of the day, video games are fun. Whatever fun is to you.
Geoff (34:26):
I'm Jeff Moonan.
Matt (34:27):
And I am Matt, AKA Stormageddon.
Geoff (34:29):
And on Fun and Games, we talk about the history, trends, and community of video games.
Matt (34:35):
It's a celebration of all the games we play and all the fun we find within them.
Geoff (34:39):
And there's so many more games out there, so we hope you'll share in that conversation with us.
Matt (34:44):
Fun and Games podcast with Matt and Jeff. Find us on certainpov.com or wherever you.
Geoff (34:48):
Get your podcasts and happy gaming.
Case (34:51):
And we're back. All right, Matt, you brought this movie. I like this movie a lot. I think that I'm. As we've been talking, I'm like, yeah, no, Donkey Kong is too much of the movie as it is. And so I could definitely see making that more of a MacGuffin thing to do, like a fetch quest to do on the way, but not necessarily, like, instrumental to the third act victory, especially because it's not in the. In the actual long run of things. So I could see making some adjustments there and like, a couple of tweaks. But, like, I'm really curious where. Where you want to come at it because, like, I just have a note that this is like, just a very pure Mario movie. Like, it does a really good job of getting that in there.
(35:27):
We didn't shout out, by the way, the, like, Luigi's Mansion ass sequence with Luigi when he's, like, scared in, like, the Dark Lands, which is fantastic.
Matt (35:37):
Yeah, we're being traced by the dry bones. Yeah, that was actually very good.
Sam (35:40):
Yeah, yeah, it was great.
Case (35:41):
But. But, like, I'm just curious, like, where. Where do you want to start on this one?
Matt (35:46):
I mean, my. My first biggest pitch, I think, besides, like, shifting some things in the narrative is the score. I think the score has done very well, but I think the needle drops were a little too much. Like, no sleep to Brooklyn feels on the nose. Holding up for a hero Feels on the nose. Take on Me is just kind of out of place. Like, genuinely, as someone who loves Aha. And take on me. I don't know why they played it in that scene. Like, he was wearing a white sport coat. So I guess that's a little retro. The. The.
Case (36:12):
I thought maybe that Kong, because they say take on me. That, like, take on sort of sounds like Kong. But, like, that was that. That's a reach.
Matt (36:23):
Yeah. It just.
Case (36:25):
It just feels me.
Matt (36:28):
It feels like every time this movie, like, when it does show some. Because Koji Kondo did, I think, help supervise some of it and arrange some of it. Even though he does, he's not the composer for this movie. He advised on it. And so, like, some of the flourishes that we get of that classic super Mario music is great, but I don't know why we didn't get more of it. There are just so many songs in the oeuvre of Mario to cut to. Pop culture songs made no sense. Like, look, no Sleep till Brooklyn while they're in Brooklyn sort of makes sense. Like when his alarm goes off near the end and it's a classic rock song. Sure. But, like, when they're in the Mushroom Kingdom, it should all be Mario music. I do.
(37:09):
Like, I didn't mention this before, that we did get the DK rap. What drove me crazy is Grant Kirkhope, a previous guest of Fun and Games and the composer who helped compose a lot of classic video game soundtracks, wrote that song for Donkey Kong 64 and was uncredited in the film. I think they may have since fixed it in the digital release. I know a bunch of folks were upset online, but I was sad and he was sad. He went to see the movie. He knew the rap was going to be in it. Seth Rogen, like, released a whole, like, Instagram video about how he loves the Donkey Kong rap and fought for it to be in the film. Like, it just. That kind of rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm glad it was in the movie. But I wanted more of that.
(37:49):
Like, there's no reason to not, like, you're partnering with Nintendo. They have some of the best compute composers working in video games use that music. And so, like, I would have totally, like, you know, underscored most of this film with just classic songs. Newer songs, like the. They allude to Mario Galaxy. And I think we even get kind of a sort of motif like that music during that scene when they're looking up the stars. But, like, wanted more of it. I just don't understand why they didn't lean into it or do those orchestrated version. Like, the whole final act when Mario and Luigi get the superstar. And then they have the star power. It starts as the basic Starman theme and then kind of swells out into this great orchestration as they kick Bowser's ass.
(38:30):
Like, I wanted more of stuff like that was recognizable and then kind of build it into maybe its own original stuff instead of just having all of these needle drops. That's like, yeah, we know that song. Great. Okay, sure. Yeah, like, that's. I think My strongest change. And then. So I want to look. So it was Koji Kondo and Brian Tyler. So Brian Tyler did the music, and then they credit Koji Kondo for the original Nintendo themes. Yeah, I think. I don't. It's not that I don't think Brian Taylor shouldn't have done this. If Koji Kondo had scored the whole film, it might have been a little strange. I think Brian Taylor did great integrations of Koji's work, so there should have been more of it. And then, like, I think I would remove the Kong set piece. I like Donkey Kong.
(39:15):
I like Cranky Kong. I thought both actors who played them actually did a good job. When I first heard that Seth Rogen was gonna play Donkey Kong, I was like, I. I like Seth Rogen well enough, but that, like, I know the laugh is his trademark, and I know that he's. He's actually a pretty decent actor, and he's pretty funny. He ended up surprising me. I did enjoy his performance here. He only did the laugh, like, a couple times, because, of course he did.
Sam (39:38):
Yeah.
Matt (39:39):
Like, I just think that maybe instead of having them go to the Kong kingdom for as long as they were maybe getting there and being shut out and then maybe sneaking into the castle and building their own carts to get away and still going on Rainbow Road, like, I think the set piece could have stayed without all the Kongs because it amounts to nothing anyway. And, like, all the scenes where Donkey Kong and Mario work together to get out of something, A lot of that setup Mario could have done on his own. Like, if he had explosives inside, like, there could have been a pile of Bob Ombs inside this eel that he's like, oh, I have an idea. Right? Or something like that. I just don't think the Kongs were really necessary to this story.
(40:22):
It's clear they want to spin it off into a separate thing. And, like, getting a Donkey Kong country film with King K. Rool and that lore would be so much fun, but it'd also be so different because in that world, like, Donkey Kong's at the top of the food chain. Cranky Kong is just his old father who is obnoxious and makes everyone upset. Like, there's no, like, royalty. And so I don't. I'm like, I feel like the Donkey Kong movie may be even less familiar to the source material than this movie was. But, like, that would be. My major change, is to find some way to get from, like, A to C without the B of the. The Mario kart race.
(40:58):
Or if we kept the Mario Kart race, remove the Kongs and had some other kind of stakes, or just Mario Peach and Toad running from them, you know, or whatever. I just think that the. The fight between Mario and Donkey Kong, though, fun because it's also a nod to the classic Donkey Kong game. Just, it all felt like, besides the jokes, completely unnecessary. Yeah.
Case (41:22):
And that's a shame that the fight with Donkey Kong is in a Donkey Kong country and like. Or, like, themed kind of battle arena. It would have been nice if it looked more like classic Donkey Kong, you know, like the red girders kind of design to it all. Which makes me wonder if it could have been like, Donkey Kong has, you know, snuck into the Mushroom Kingdom and is, like, taken over a building or something, and they have to, like, get him clear or something and return him to the Kong Kingdom and, you know, not have that be part of. Or maybe that's, like, how they, like, broker peace with the Kongs or something.
Matt (41:57):
But, yeah, just shortening that segment, maybe something.
Sam (42:01):
Yeah. He could have also been, like, tricked by Bowser and something, or, you know, part of the domination. I don't know. That would have been fun.
Case (42:09):
Yeah. Something where it's just like, okay, well, we have to buy, you know, we have to beat Donkey Kong to get a thing to win. Not necessarily that. Like, well, we have to beat Donkey. You know, it kind of feels like Game of Thrones y, where it's just like, well, we have to have a trial by combat in order to, like, bring this army to our side. Do you swear allegiance to me and, you know, become one of my fiefdoms?
Matt (42:32):
Right. And, like, the Kong army being the strongest army in the kingdoms, like, it just. It felt like they wanted to do that storyline before it was for the Kongs, and then they just put the Kongs in that place because they were characters that could be used, you know, that kind of thing.
Sam (42:48):
Yeah.
Case (42:49):
I also don't love Fred Armisen as Cranky Kong. Like, I. I really just.
Matt (42:54):
That's.
Case (42:54):
I, like, it didn't ruin it for me, but it just wasn't my favorite choice for that part.
Matt (43:00):
Yeah, I think that literally any older actor would have been a great Cranky Kong. Someone crotchety and complaining. Honestly, you know, I think Ian McKellen would have been an excellent Cranky Kong because he would just kind of do the kind of magneto, like, kind of raspy voice and, like, commanding. But, like, I think that a voice like that. Or Patrick Stewart as Cranky Kong, like, yeah, like, these older actors being kind of crotchety and mean. I mean, we've been able to see Patrick Stewart do that in like stuff like American dad and stuff. So I feel like he'd be a really good cranky.
Case (43:33):
And he's down for video game stuff. He was in oblivion.
Matt (43:37):
Yeah. He was also the voice of the poop emoji in the emoji movie. So, you know, paychecks and paycheck.
Case (43:45):
I guess his game is the. Is the point.
Matt (43:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I. I think that's the major stuff I would change because I think the intro, while I don't love the family scenes, they're short enough. And I don't know how we else we'd convey that. I mean, I feel like they could have failed without doing that. I do like that Mario is fighting for his dad's approval. I think that, you know, and it gives him and Donkey Kong something like the way it's worked into the film. It makes sense. I think if we change some stuff like Donkey Kong and Mario not having that reconciling moment about their dads and things, maybe we would shift it. But it did make sense for what we had.
Sam (44:19):
Right.
Matt (44:20):
I think the. I think the whole final act is perfect. I think the way Mario rescues them, the stuff with the giant bullet bill, the getting the superstar, the hero's journey nonsense. Right. Like all of this amounts to the hero's journey. Mario thinking he's failed but still getting up again, Luigi saving him to show Luigi's arc. Like all that stuff works really well. I just think a lot of the stuff in the middle could have been streamlined or even changed a little to make it feel more like just a Mario movie, not a Mario and Donkey Kong movie. Mario is still the main character and it does focus around his. His world and his story. But I think the Kongs had too much airtime for what amounted to not be their movie.
(45:00):
But again, I think you make a good point case that the reason Donkey Kong is there is they did want that four player action which is actually really popular in the newer 2D Mario games.
Case (45:10):
Which also as a side note, if all the new four player Mario games had Donkey Kong as one of the playable characters, I would be playing those all the time.
Matt (45:18):
I would too. Yeah. But I think. No, but I do think that it made sense to have him as like a fourth player for that, like team up and maybe we'll get something different in follow ups. But yeah, like I don't have it. Like ultimately I do enjoy this film. You know, I think it's just kind of bland and face value, right? It's nothing. It is not the Fallout TV show. It is not the Last of us. It's not. And not everything needs to be. But even Sonic and Detective Pikachu, I feel like, at least did something to do, like, tried something different, even if it didn't always work. Whereas this was just kind of samey and paint by numbers, which I think is its greatest flaw.
Case (46:01):
Yeah, I think that's a very fair assessment. Sam, do you have notes that you would pitch in on this movie?
Sam (46:10):
I liked this movie. I mean, I do think. I do think that it is a little everything in the kitchen sink, right? Like, they're. They're giving us. They're hitting all the beats, and sometimes it feels like they were giving us everything they could possibly give us. Just in case, like. Like, we're. We're planning. We're hoping to have more movies, but just in case it doesn't work out, we're gonna hit all the greatest hits where we're gonna hit all of them. And so it does. It does do that. And I think, unfortunately, we live in a time where artistically, a lot of artistic people, Even with established IPs, like Mario Brothers, are worried because studios aren't really investing in anything that they think might fail. So I kind of give the movie a pass for throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.
(47:07):
I think in, like, an ideal world. Yeah. I think that Matt is correct with his notes. It'd be nice to lessen Donkey Kong, I think. I think it's. I think visiting him, like, stopping in and kind of asking or being shut out or even having him make a cameo in as, like, when Princess Peach is testing Mario. Maybe one of the things is taking back a building from Donkey Kong, who's been a nuisance. Right? And so you've got, like. Like, now's your final test, and you face Donkey Kong, which would have been fun and cool. And then you could have had a very small cameo from Cranky Kong where Donkey Kong goes home and Cranky Kong is like, failed again. And, like, leave. Leave it kind of for you to. To experience them in another thing. Just like a little nod, right?
(47:57):
I think that would have been fine. But, you know, we lose nothing by having the stuff there. It's just that now, then what happens is when you start to build out the world, that stuff becomes harder because you've already done so much. But again, I think a lot of companies are really just making movies to make their one off and just hoping that Somehow it'll hit gold. And so I kind of give them a pass putting everything. And. Because they finish strong, and that's what we really remember when we leave theater. This just becomes a really fun hero's journey introduction to their world. So. Yeah. No, but I am. I do agree with Matt. It would have been nice to have more Mario music in there, because I was delighted every time I heard any of the Mario music. I was like, oh.
(48:49):
So I think it would have been more fun. That's more for us. You know, it's fine. The movie is fine. The movie is fun. And if you rewatch it's fine and it's fun, and you're gonna laugh and you're gonna remember you're gonna miss. There's so many jokes. Like, there's jokes on jokes in this film. So, like, they'll be like, you'll be on your third rewatch. You'll be like, I missed that joke last time. That's hilarious. So I will give it high marks on that. And again, this movie was good because it was short and it was funny and it was colorful. So that's it.
Matt (49:26):
Yeah.
Case (49:27):
Yeah. I likewise sort of come away from this being like, well, it's. It's very small, like, adjustments that could have been made. Like the. The movie itself. You know, like we said, it's Mario paint by numbers. It is. Here's all the beats that we need to have to get through the story to do all the lore stuff and to fit in all the. The details. And it looks really good. You know, while. Yeah, like, Donkey Kong being a smaller part would have been nice. And, like, you know, maybe it, like, have a different, like, Mario McGuffin in there somewhere. We kind of get the penguins and we get the castle from Mario 64. It would have been nice to see, like, a little bit more of that era, specifically. Or maybe like the flood pack.
Matt (50:03):
We got King Bob omb.
Case (50:05):
That's true. That was very good. Especially when he, like, sat down on the turtle shell and had to stop it. Again, sight gags are great in this movie, like, from every parent who has their kid watching it with them kind of situation. Like, this is great for those parents, you know, is it necessarily going to be, like, the richest experience of all time? No, but I think that we are looking at a pretty solid movie that did really well at the box office. It had 100 million and it took in 1.3 billion. You know, I think it's fair to say that it was pretty successful.
Matt (50:38):
Yeah, easily.
Case (50:39):
But it's also exactly what you would expect when you hear that it, like, it's an illumination Mario movie, you know? Yeah. It's exactly what you're picturing when you think about any of those parts there. It's just an effective version of that. So, yeah, I don't have big notes. They're all, like, small details. Most of the notes I have are gushing about like, oh, that's a cute sequence. Like, oh, hey, Luigi's mansion. Love the 2D segment here. Yeah. And it makes me want to play the game. And I think that might be the area which is that I enjoyed this, but I also wasn't chomping at the bit to see this. And the games now are doing a better job of having these. This kind of a story in there, but also you get to play it.
(51:18):
So there's also that element which is like, does this need a sequel? I don't know if it does.
Matt (51:23):
Like, no. I mean, I think that's the biggest complaint I have. And something that friend of the network, Patrick H. Willems, said in his video about this movie is that it never feels like you're playing. Like there's action, but it just doesn't feel very. Like it's hard to convey that. And I don't know that there's a quick solution to it. But, like, the moments when it feels like the games, it still doesn't quite. Because you can't control it. And there's not always really a way to convey that. But there could have. Like I said, the story could have been more batshit or more thoughtful or whatever to kind of, like, fill that space. But it never really lives up to playing the game because, like, yeah, this feels like Mario, but, like, it's the sentiment you just had, Case.
(52:06):
Like, I could watch this again, or I could just literally play any video game they've made in the last 10 years. And it'll probably be more fun because I'm playing it.
Case (52:14):
So that's like kind of my only, like, big note, which is just that, like, it's not. It's not the video game.
Matt (52:23):
Yeah.
Case (52:23):
And it's not. It's not 1993 anymore where we needed to have this sort of, like, fleshed out, like, story to go along with a game that was, like, very surface like this. You know, it's a very different era now. The games are extremely detailed with cutscenes that are, you know, full sequences and, like, lots of story that. That happens in game and. And all that. And, like, does this look that much Better than, you know, Mario Odyssey. I. I mean it certainly looks better, but it's, you know, we're. It's certainly diminishing returns.
Matt (52:54):
Yeah, I mean, well, it's like when Super Mario Wonder came out last year, I believe like the art style was more like kind of artistic and like looked like hand drawn animations more so than like the 3D Mario games. And I think going in that stylistic direction makes sense because this movie also made stylistic choices like showing the stitching on the outfits and like redesigning some of the clothes. And like, I think if you're going to recreate the stuff, you have to do something a little different with it. Otherwise it just feels kind of samey. It's clear that they were trying to push for a little bit of realism in like the clothes and the. Some of the character designs, but also just kind of bringing to life these characters games.
Case (53:35):
But all that said, I am very glad to finally watch it. And so I do very much appreciate you bringing this movie to us.
Sam (53:42):
Yeah, thanks Matt.
Matt (53:44):
Happy to. I'm glad that you guys enjoyed it. I did too. But don't worry, when I come back after the Venom trilogy is over and we watch the other two films, there'll be plenty to hate.
Case (53:53):
We got to have you back on for Venom 2 at some point soon. It's good just to finally get you back on. It's been too long.
Matt (53:59):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
Sam (54:01):
I have to admit something. I have not even seen the first Venom.
Matt (54:04):
Yeah, right. Because that was also. That's going to be another apap because.
Sam (54:08):
So I will be watching it for the first time when I. We do that as another pass at another past.
Matt (54:14):
Amazing. I love those stupid ass movies. I cannot champion them enough. And so I will eventually come back and do two. Maybe we'll aim for. I mean three is out this. This fall, so maybe early next year we'll aim for covering the sequel so we can gear up for the third ones, maybe video release or whatever if they still put things on video. But yeah, this was great. Thanks for having me. I'm glad you guys both enjoyed it. I feel like with a movie like this because it's just so by the numbers. It could go either way. Right. I can see why people wouldn't like this because they'd be bored or like all of its kind of like, you know, just kind of even. But I'm glad that you both enjoyed it.
(54:55):
I think if you just get lost in the nostalgia, that enough can carry you through this film and it is worth seeing. Even if it's not the perfect Mario movie, it's definitely better than the live action Mario movie. As much as I still look at the movie fondly, this is definitely.
Case (55:11):
There's actually a surprising number of similarities in terms of structure, which yes, I was actually quite happy with because this movie came very close to when we did a pitch for that movie. And. And this is like doing that. Exactly. But better. So that's. That was very cool. And. And I. I love the 93 movie in somewhat of an ironic way. We'll say yeah, but yeah, certainly had a lot of fun. Matt, when you're not punching blocks on this podcast to gain power ups, where can people find you and follow you?
Matt (55:44):
So the best place to find me is@dj stormageddon.com you can also follow me on most social media as djstormageddon. These days I still host two podcasts on this network. The first is a video game podcast called Fun and Game. Well, they're both video game podcasts actually, but the first one is more broad video games called Fun and Games. I host it with Jeff Moonan. We do broad topic based discussions all about celebrating the games industry, pointing out the flaws in some of the systems within it and trying to make the gaming space a better place. We've had composers on developers, we've done retrospectives. Way back when we had Case on for a Mega man retrospective which was a ton of fun.
Case (56:23):
That's such a specific episode to pull by the way of like times the Case has been on.
Matt (56:28):
Yeah, it was the one that I remembered. I know you've been on since then, but that was the one that popped back into my brain. But we have a ton of other stuff that we've covered. We also have done Sidequests, which is a sub series that I came up with where different host. Every episode talks about a game and why they love it. Case has done literally too many to name, but the most recent one Case did I believe was on Streets of Rage, a great game, which is a great game. The whole franchise of Streets of Age is great. If I had to rank them, It'd probably be 2, 4, 1 and then 3, because 3 is the worst one. But it was a great episode and so you should definitely go check that out.
(57:01):
And then the other show I host is with the incredible Frankie Bradley Lestrange. It's called Reignite. Started as a Mass Effect podcast. We've now gone on to the Dragon Age franchise and are playing Dragon Age 2. And as of when we're recording this because I don't know by the time you hear it. We are current with a modern release of a video game of franchise recovering because the Veil Guard, Dragon Age's newest entry is coming out this fall. Again, you may be hearing this after that, but as of when we're recording in August. We're very excited to be able to cover news about a franchise that we're talking about because it is literally never happened in the other five seasons. So that's been a joy.
(57:36):
And if you like talking about story decisions and why we make the choices we make and more importantly the characters we romance, you should definitely listen to Reignite as well.
Case (57:46):
Well, that's great. People should check out both of those shows. They've both been longtime parts of the network and I can't shout them out enough. They're both fantastic works that I do the episode art for, so I am biased. But we work together because we love each other's work.
Matt (58:04):
True.
Case (58:05):
Now Sam, where can people find you and follow you outside of this?
Sam (58:09):
Well, everyone can find me here and occasionally I remember our Discord exists so there. But other than that I'm going to be in a cage with Lumi kind of contemplating just the nothingness of life. So I will not be able to receive any complaints about anything I may have said today. So if you have any complaints about it, Lumi and I do not care. But if you really need to just express it to someone, you can find ksat.
Case (58:37):
Well if you need to discuss it with someone who is not pondering the sweet release of death, you can find me on all the platforms Sam mentioned our Discord. That is a great place to find me. Our Discord server can be found. We have links on our website@ certainpowe.com or all over the Internet. It's a great place to come interact with us. We have lively conversations about books, comics, movies. It's a great time and has really picked up a lot of speed in the last like year and a half or so. Like I I it's a really fun place to be just in general. So like love our Discord server.
(59:11):
Like please check me out there, check us all out there and then at the socials you can find me all the places with the AT symbols at Case Aiken except for Instagram where I'm holding on to my aim screen name from high school for dear life where you can find me at quetzalcoatl5 because I was pretentious back then too. Meanwhile, you can find more episodes of this show on our YouTube channel, Certain POV Media. You can find full episodes of this. You can find full episodes of Men of Steel, you can find my Superman analog videos over there. You can find tons of stuff. So so check out the YouTube channel. If you're not watching this there and if you are watching this there, this is also a regular podcast.
(59:48):
So if you prefer a regular podcast player, just look for Another Pass or Men of Steel or any of our shows. And then when you are locked into what way you're watching this show, you can find us for our next episode. Sam, what is up next?
Sam (01:00:03):
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
Geoff (01:00:11):
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode, just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com Another pass is.
Sam (01:00:24):
A certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sophia Richardi. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri and our outro theme is by Matt Bro.
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