July 11, 2024 • 38 mins
In August 2017, white supremacists marched on Charlottesville, VA to silence the Jews, Black Americans, and other minorities whom they feared would “replace us.” The Unite the Right Rally was one of many ominous signs of persistent antisemitic attitudes and violence in the United States, but in this history of hate, some Americans found reason to hope.
Featuring: Yair Rosenberg, Jonathan Greenblatt, Mehnaz Afridi, and David Sorkin
Narrated by Mark Oppenheimer
Written by John Turner and Lincoln Mullen
This series is made possible with support from the Henry Luce Foundation and the David Bruce Smith Foundation.
Antisemitism, U.S.A. is a production of R2 Studios at the Roy Rosenzweig Center for History and New Media at George Mason University.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Oppenheimer (00:00):
Support for Antisemitism, U.S.A. comes from
(00:02):
the Henry Luce Foundation andthe David Bruce Smith
Foundation.
Crowd (00:12):
(crowd noises)
Mark Oppenheimer (00:13):
In August 2017, white supremacists
gathered in Charlottesville,Virginia for what they called
the Unite the Right rally. Theywere there to protest the
removal of a statue ofConfederate General Robert E
Lee. The major rally is notgoing to take place until August
(00:34):
11. But the night before, about200 men and women, many of them
carrying tiki torches march ontothe University of Virginia
campus. And as they march, theychant.
Crowd (00:52):
You will not replace us. You will not replace us.
(ongoing beneath narration)
Mark Oppenheimer (00:56):
They march onto the lawn and approach the
campus Rotunda. And their chantbecomes more specific. They
holler, "Jews will not replaceus." And they shout a Nazi chant
about purifying white soil fromJewish and other polluting
blood. There's also a smallergroup of counter protesters, and
(01:20):
the two groups shout at eachother. In a menacing, terrifying
way. The white nationalistssurround the counter protesters.
Police have to step in. The nextday, the main rally takes place
at Emancipation Park, formerlyknown as Robert E. Lee Park, and
(01:43):
a lot of unsavory folks show up.There's the Ku Klux Klan, the
League of the South, far rightTV host Nick Fuentes. Neo Nazi
Richard Spencer is there as isformer KKK Grand Wizard David
Duke. The Unite the Right rallywas ostensibly about a statue of
(02:05):
a Confederate General, but themarchers were equal opportunity
haters. They spewed venomagainst black people, Jews,
gays, and anyone who they feltwas opposing them. One of the
Neo Nazis at the rally held up asign that declared "Jews are
Satan's children." It listed afew New Testament verses and
(02:25):
then concluded with a referenceto the Jewish scripture that
said, "Talmud is a childmolester's Bible." Tragically,
these weren't just words. When awhite supremacist drove his car
into a crowd of anti racists,Heather Heyer was hit and
killed. What happened inCharlottesville was shocking to
(02:47):
many Americans. But the ideasare not surprising. The
Christian bigotry, the racistfear of Jewish blood weakening
white American stock, theconspiracy theories, all of them
have a history
(03:09):
I'm Mark Oppenheimer, and thisis Antisemitism, U.S.A., a
podcast about the history ofantisemitism in the United
States. Episode 10 Between Hateand Hope. On this final episode,
we'll explore some of theserecent trends and ask how we
might better understand them inlight of the longer history of
(03:30):
antisemitism in this country.It's a history that gives us
well grounded reasons for bothconcern and optimism. Racial
antisemitism had mostly fadedfrom public view by the 1960s.
But if the 2017 Charlottesvilleriots taught us anything, anti
blackness and anti Judaism oftenappear side by side. Since the
(03:54):
early 1900s, white supremacy andantisemitism had been closely
connected. The lynching of LeoFrank, a Jew, in Georgia in
1915, was one of theinspirations for the rebirth of
the Ku Klux Klan. The antiimmigration laws of the 1920s
were passed, in part, becauseNativists argued that Jewish
(04:15):
blood would weaken the country'sracial stock. In the 1930s, the
silver shirts, followers ofWilliam Pelley, armed themselves
and trained for an anticipatedrace war. Other groups persisted
after World War Two and fromtime to time, Nazis in uniform
would parade through Americantowns.
(04:39):
In 1970, Frank Collin formed theNational Socialist Party of
America, and he planned to marchin Skokie, Illinois, a
predominantly Jewish suburb ofChicago, where one in six
residents was a Holocaustsurvivor. Collin and his Nazis
got a lot of media attention,and the Illinois Supreme Court
ruled that they had the right topeacefully march. President
(05:03):
Jimmy Carter released astatement about the Skokie March
which read, "I must respect thedecision of the Supreme Court
allowing this group to expresstheir views, even when those
views are despicable and ugly asthey are in this case. But if
such views must be expressed, Iam pleased that they will not go
unanswered. That is why I wantto voice my complete solidarity
(05:23):
with those citizens of Skokie inChicago, who will gather Sunday
in a peaceful demonstration oftheir abhorrence of Nazism."
Carter had no trouble upholdingfree speech and denouncing Nazis
at the same time. Now, after theCharlottesville rally in 2017,
this is what President DonaldTrump had to say.
Donald Trump (05:43):
Yes, I think there's blame on both sides. You
look at, you look at both sides.I think there's blame on both
sides. And I have no doubt aboutit, and you don't have any doubt
about it either. And, and, andif you reported it accurately,
you would say.
Mark Oppenheimer (06:01):
When a reporter objected that the Neo
Nazis started the whole problemby coming to Charlottesville,
Trump continued.
Donald Trump (06:07):
And you had some very bad people in that group.
But you also had people thatwere very fine people on both
sides. You had people in thatgroup? Excuse me, excuse me, I
saw the same pictures as youdid. You had people in that
group that were there to protestthe taking down of, to them a
(06:29):
very, very important statue, andthe renaming of a park from
Robert E. Lee to another name.
Mark Oppenheimer (06:35):
It would seem there's a big difference between
these two presidentialresponses. Carter was
unequivocal in condemning Nazis.By contrast, Trump vacillated
back and forth betweencondemning racism and hatred,
and blaming both or many sidesfor the violence in
Charlottesville. Along withtheir Democratic colleagues,
(06:56):
many national Republican leadersforthrightly condemned the Unite
the Right rally. But thePresident did not.
You can think of Trump as beinga kind of philosemite, not
somebody who hates Jews, butsomeone who believes all the
stereotypes about them. Here'sYair Rosenberg, a staff writer
at The Atlantic who coverspolitics and religion, and
(07:17):
writes a lot about contemporaryantisemitism.
Yair Rosenberg (07:20):
The other form of philosemitism is actually the
inverse of anti semitism, whichis to say, people accept the
same stereotypes about Jews thatantisemites do, but they
understand them positively. Soinstead of Jews being very
clever and scheming andmanipulating others, negatively,
Jews are very clever. They'revery smart, and you want them
(07:42):
running your banks, right?They're very good with money. I
want a Jewish lawyer, and all ofthese sorts of ideas. An example
of someone who thinks this wayabout Jewish people, former
President Donald Trump. Hespeaks about Jews in what seemed
like antisemitic terms, but he'snot intending those things as a
tax. He invited, as president,Jews to the White House and
(08:04):
talked to them about Israel,would talk about it as your
country. And he would talk aboutBenjamin Netanyahu as your Prime
Minister, this idea that Jewsare actually really cutouts for
Israelis, possessing dualloyalties, and so forth. But
again, he wasn't doing this withthe intent to insult, right, or
attack. And people are veryconfused by this. They're like,
how is Trump saying theseantisemitic things, but yet he
(08:24):
has a Jewish son in law, and heconceives of himself as a friend
of the Jews. But it actuallymakes sense because Trump is a
philo semite of the secondmould. He believes all these
antisemitic stereotypes, but headmires those stereotypes
because Trump is the ultimateself interested actor. He thinks
that you should always look outfor yourself before anybody
else. So where others would lookat that and say that's an
(08:47):
antisemitic attack, Trump seesthis as a compliment.
Mark Oppenheimer (08:50):
While Trump didn't record his private
conversations, he has saidplenty in public. He has
commented on Jewish money,Jewish power, Jewish ingratitude
toward him, and how there aregood Jews and bad Jews. In
another respect, though, Trump'sequivocation was a watershed
moment.
For much of the last century,national conservative leaders
(09:12):
have wanted to keep far rightantisemites and white
supremacists not just at arm'slength, but even farther away.
Being associated with the JohnBirch Society, let alone Neo
Nazis, was considered politicalpoison. Sure, politicians might
find a way to appeal to whitesupremacists, but they tried to
be sneaky about it.
Yair Rosenberg (09:32):
Trump brought a lot of fringe people closer to
the center of the discourse. Andof course, some of those people
were going to be antisemites andgive that seven years to
marinate. And a lot of peopleare now like, they're second
tier conservative influencers.They haven't yet made it to the
inner circle. But they're honingin. And there's a surprising
amount of this and people do notrealize it. You can see it on
social media based on who'sretweeting who, who's reading
(09:54):
who and what they're sharing.You know, these people are part
of the conversation. They're atevents with Trump's kids, and
stuff like that. It's why Trumpends up at dinner with Nick
Fuentes and Kanye and thingslike that. It's not a
coincidence. This is going on.
Mark Oppenheimer (10:08):
It's not a coincidence. Let's step back and
take a broader look at therecent trajectory of American
antisemitism. Here's JonathanGreenblatt, the CEO of the Anti
Defamation League, which hasbeen tracking antisemitic
attitudes for decades,
Jonathan Greenblatt (10:23):
We've been tracking antisemitic attitudes
since the 1960s. So longer thanany other, as far as I'm aware,
of any other entity in society,we've been doing the kind of
longitudinal research that givesus the benefit of a broad set of
information. First, in 1962, or63, ADL started working with
(10:44):
sociologists at the Universityof California, Berkeley, to
develop kind of a questionnaireand a means by which you could
assess antisemitic attitudesamong the general population. So
this is sort of classic marketresearch. And in the span of a
set of questions are 14different stereotypes about
(11:08):
Jewish people. Do you think theJews responsible for the World
Wars? If you say yes to that,but no to say the 13 other myths
or tropes, then you're notconsidered someone with deep
antisemitism. But respondingpositively to six or more of the
question constitutes what thesociologist defined as, quote,
(11:31):
extensive antisemitic attitudes.That's where we become
concerned. So when the ADL talksabout measuring antisemitic
attitudes, we're looking forwhat percent of the general
population respond positively tosix or more of these myths.
Mark Oppenheimer (11:46):
For most of the last 60 years, the results
of this survey were at least twosomewhat comforting. Things were
headed in the right direction.
Jonathan Greenblatt (11:53):
When ADL issued our first survey, in
1964, roughly 30% held classicantisemitic attitudes, meaning
responding affirmatively to sixor more of the questions. Now,
since that first study, thenumbers basically have ticked
downward over the ensuingdecades. And they kind of have
(12:18):
bounced between like 8 and 12%,over a number of decades. So
what does that mean? It meansthat between eight and 12%, of
the general population, nonJewish, affirmed antisemitic
attitudes. So when we ran thesurvey in 2019, it was roughly
11%.
Mark Oppenheimer (12:40):
That would suggest that about 38 and a half
million Americans give or take,have extensive antisemitic
attitudes.
Jonathan Greenblatt (12:48):
That's a lot of people. I just want to
say that out loud. It's not asmall number. But nonetheless,
it's within the range that wehave come to expect.
Mark Oppenheimer (12:57):
If you're guessing that the news has
gotten worse, you are correct.
Jonathan Greenblatt (13:00):
When we read the survey, 2022, it came
back 20%. So from 11%, in 2019,to 20%, in 2022. Now, by the
way, for what it's worth, thiswas pre Kanye West. This was pre
(13:21):
Kyrie Irving, some very bigmoments in like the public
conversation about antisemitism.So this was pretty alarming to
us. In fact, that number of 20%was the highest we'd seen in the
last 30 years of doing thesurvey.
Mark Oppenheimer (13:37):
And if you drill down into the data even
more, the news gets worse.
Jonathan Greenblatt (13:42):
3% of the respondents responded
affirmatively to all 14 of thequestions. 3% out of 100 seems
like a small number
Mark Oppenheimer (13:53):
3% of the country, that's about 10 million
people,
Jonathan Greenblatt (13:56):
That 3% is more than the total population
of Jews in the country. To thinkthat there's more of them than
there are of Jews is, is, Ithink, at a minimum, that's a
little bit sobering.
Mark Oppenheimer (14:12):
Even more sobering, there's been a
corresponding increase inantisemitic incidents.
Jonathan Greenblatt (14:17):
So last year, we tracked and this is all
public information, 3697 antisemitic incidents. That's the
highest number we've evertracked. That number is 36%
higher than the previous year.That all time high, again, was
(14:39):
preceded by 2021, which itselfwas an all time high. And prior
to that the previous all timehigh was 2019. So three times
the past five years, we'vereached new, all time highs. The
data shows us that antisemiticincidents are increasing. The
harass splinters increasing,that was up 26%, and acts of
(15:04):
violence are up another 26%.
Mark Oppenheimer (15:06):
Out of the more than 100 assaults
documented by the ADL, more thanhalf targeted visibly Orthodox
Jews. The ADL also includes inits count a large number of what
it terms anti Zionist and antiIsrael incidents. For this
category, the ADL differentiatesbetween what it terms legitimate
(15:26):
political protest, orexpressions of opposition to
Israeli policies, and antiZionist antisemitism. What would
be anti Zionist antisemitismaccording to the ADL? Well, they
would say a boycott,divestments, and sanctions
resolution, BDS, or an IsraeliApartheid week. Not everyone
agrees with how the ADLcategorizes these incidents. But
(15:49):
whatever your definition, if youlook at the data, you'll see
that public antisemitism hasticked up in the United States.
And in the wake of the October7, Hamas terrorist attacks
against Israel, anti Zionist andanti Israel incidents
skyrocketed, as did other formsof antisemitic incidents.
(16:11):
If you've been listening to theshow, you probably don't need to
be convinced that there's aproblem. It may not be a huge
problem. Numerically speaking,the odds that any Jew is going
to be a target of antisemiticviolence, whether walking down
the street or studying on auniversity campus, is very, very
small. But still, there'sCharlottesville in 2017. There
(16:35):
are the Tree of Life synagogueshootings in Pittsburgh in 2018.
There were the three people shotand killed at a kosher grocery
store in Jersey City in 2019.There was the hostage taking at
a temple in Colleyville, Texasin 2022. And surveys do show
that anti Jewish attitudes aregoing up. All of this leaves us
(16:57):
with some tough questions. Howdo we make sense of antisemitism
in the United States today? Whyhave things gotten worse? How
bad is it? Can we do anythingabout it? We will return to
these questions after the break.
(17:19):
In May 2023, President Joe Bidenlaunched a national strategy to
counter antisemitism. Here he isspeaking at the event.
Joe Biden (17:28):
Six years ago, Neo Nazis marched out of a field in
Charlottesville, Virginia,literally carrying torches and
neo Nazi flags, and spewing thesame antisemitic bile that was
heard across Europe in the 30s.In the process, a young woman
was killed. What did you hear?There are very fine people on
(17:49):
both sides. Come on. A reminderthat hate never goes away. It
only hides. Give it just alittle bit of oxygen. It comes
out from under those rocks witha vengeance. In the past several
years hate has been given toomuch oxygen, fueling a record
rise in antisemitism. It'ssimply wrong. It's not only,
(18:10):
it's immoral, it's unacceptable.It's on all of us. It's on all
of us to stop it. We must sayclearly and forcefully that
antisemitism and all forms ofhate and violence have no place
in America. And silence. Silenceis complicity and you cannot
remain silent. I will not remainsilent. You should not either.
(18:32):
That's why today I'm releasingthe first ever national strategy
to counter antisemitism.
Mark Oppenheimer (18:38):
His four pronged plan includes
initiatives focused oneducation, safety and security,
online antisemitism, andbuilding multifaith
partnerships. And the fact thatthe US has a national plan for
combating antisemitism is ahistorical landmark. Also, the
US now has a Special Envoy toMonitor and Combat Antisemitism.
(19:00):
Deborah Lipstadt was confirmedfor the job in 2022. Here she is
speaking at the same event asBiden.
Deborah Lipstadt (19:08):
This is a historic moment in the modern
fight against what's known asthe world's oldest hatred. For
the first time, the UnitedStates government is not only
acknowledging that antisemitismis a serious problem in this
country, but laying out a clearplan to counter it.
Mark Oppenheimer (19:33):
Before holding her current role, Lipstadt was a
professor of history at EmoryUniversity and the author of
many books. Despite the rise inantisemitic incidents, when she
looks to the past, she findsreasons for optimism.
Deborah Lipstadt (19:45):
This moment is historic for another reason.
Just consider where we are. Wegather in a building that was
once the home of the state andwar departments. We come
together to release a plan forcombatting Jew hatred in a place
Mark Oppenheimer (20:01):
In other words, antisemitism remains a
where just over four decadesago, a form of Jew hatred took
shape as official policy, asState Department officials
erected so called paper wallsaround this country to prevent
Jews from entering our borders.We assemble with memories of a
serious and heightened threat.But at least the United States
(20:22):
dark time, when a White Housestaff counseled the president to
stand firm against letting Jewsin, when members of Congress
sought to halt anyliberalization of American, of
immigration laws, even afterKristallnacht. When an intense
bipartisan effort to allow theentry of Jewish children whose
(20:45):
parents were in concentrationcamps was met with rejection and
inhumanity. Even though a yearlater, when London was being
government is contending againstit rather than abetting it.
bombed, Congress rushed to makeroom for British children to
enter this country. You don'tneed my historical expertise to
recognize the sole differencebetween these two sets of
(21:09):
children. That was then. Todayis very different.
Deborah Lipstadt (21:23):
This could not be more essential, because this
scourge threatens not just thesafety of Jews, but the strength
of our democracy. Here again,history is instructive, telling
us that where anti semitismpersists. Democracy suffers
(21:44):
Where Jews are at risks, so too,are the rights of everyone, from
every race, religion, ethnicity,or creed. Yet, where communities
and nations step forward tocombat anti semitism, they tend
to emerge more secure, morefree, and more fair for all.
Mark Oppenheimer (22:06):
Anti Jewish hatred and prejudice clearly
have not disappeared. Far fromit. Why? One way to make sense
of the present moment is to lookat what got us here. I don't
mean the past 10 years or thepast 20 or even the past 50. I
mean, looking at the very deepand complex roots in American
culture throughout our history,the anti Jewishness of Christian
(22:29):
theology, the tropes aboutJewish merchants, the
racialization of Jews, all theconspiracy theories about Jewish
bankers, communists, mediamoguls, politicians. Because the
pervasive antisemitism of the19th and early 20th centuries
had faded by the 1960s, manyAmericans thought it was just
(22:50):
gone, it was a thing of thepast. That has not proven to be
the case. Given thatantisemitism had such deep
roots, not just here, but aroundthe world, we probably shouldn't
be surprised that it remains aproblem today. Experts sometimes
compare antisemitism to a virusthat mutates and shapeshifts.
(23:10):
It's a problem that fades fromview, but inevitably resurfaces.
Why does it seem to be gettingworse or at least more visible
today?
We've pointed to a few factors.There's the ability of
antisemites to spread theirviews through social media.
There's the toleration or evenencouragement of antisemitism by
certain politicians on both theright and the left. There's the
(23:34):
fact that anti Zionist and antiIsrael activism can stoke anti
semitism, especially withincertain communities, recently on
college campuses, there are alsoother pockets of anti Jewish
hatred. There is specificallyMuslim antisemitism in some
communities and the blackIsraelite movement. And of
course, there's the whitesupremacism of the far right.
(23:56):
But if American history helps usmake sense of our current
problems, it also gives usgrounds for hope, because we
also have deeply rooteddemocratic and inter cultural
traditions that can help usfight bigotry. We talked with
one woman who exemplifies thesetraditions.
Unknown (24:14):
I'm Dr. Mehnaz Afridi. I teach Islam and the Holocaust
at Manhattan College in thereligious studies department.
And I'm also the director of theHolocaust, Genocide, and
Interfaith Education Center hereat Manhattan. My job as a
Muslim, and I take thisseriously, and a scholar, is to
(24:35):
inform my Muslim community ofthe facts of the Holocaust. The
encounters that I've had, andwhat I've read is always
relativizing this idea of 6million to 2 million, 6 million
to 1 million, the denial you geteven from Holocaust deniers that
(24:58):
will say, Oh, well, you know,there weren't really ovens,
there weren't reallyEinsatzgruppen, all these
things. That I don't thinkMuslims are really concerned
with, what they're concernedwith is they must have done
something to be killed.
Mark Oppenheimer (25:11):
There is a long and complicated 1400 years
of history between Muslims andJews. Muslims develop their own
traditions of anti Judaism. Andthen Arab and other Muslim
countries imported Europeanantisemitism over the course of
the 19th and 20th centuries, theProtocols of the Elders of Zion
remain readily accessible andthey're popular in many Muslim
(25:32):
countries today. Mehnaz Afridiwas born in Pakistan. And here's
some of her thoughts about antiJudaism there.
Unknown (25:39):
I remember going to the butcher, and it was a bird flu
time. And uh, basically a signan order that basically said,
you know, the Jews have poisonedthe birds. Where does that come
from? And this is in Karachimarketplace, right. And then, I
remember I was in Karachi. And Iwas going to LA, I think, and
(26:02):
there was a bomb in Karachi. Andthis is like, during the height
of like, 9/11. And it was funny,none of my family said this,
because I was there, I think.But after I left, you know, my
mom got on the phone. She goes,you know, the Jews were bombing
the city. And I was like, whywould the Jews be bombing
Karachi? These things are alwaysthere.
Mark Oppenheimer (26:23):
In other words, antisemitism is pervasive
in much of the Muslim world,whether in Pakistan or Egypt or
elsewhere. And the IsraeliPalestinian conflict has
exacerbated tensions betweenJews and Muslims. But Mehnaz
Afridi sees a criticaldifference in the United States.
Unknown (26:39):
I argue all the time in my work, that there is a really
strong Muslim Jewish Americanalliance in the United States
that I have not seen orexperienced anywhere else. There
are more interfaith initiatives,there are more groups, more
nonprofit groups that are doingthis kind of work. I'm part of a
(27:00):
lot of those groups. I thinkit's very strong. I think
there's also conversations nowabout Israel and Palestine, that
are painful. But people arepushing the envelope and they're
pushing it hard because Jews andMuslims are the religious
minorities in America that aremost attacked. You know, the
(27:21):
highest number of incidences inthe United States is against
Jews. And second, right aroundthe corner is what Muslims,
especially women in hijab.
Mehnaz Afridi (27:31):
Now, why is it better here? We have religious
freedom. It's in ourConstitution, we could not put
on the Muslim ban, because it'santi constitutional, religious
discrimination. That is huge.
Mark Oppenheimer (27:47):
As religious minorities in a predominantly
Christian country, Jews andMuslims have stood up for each
Unknown (27:52):
Muslim Americans and Jewish Americans do better here,
other.
because they are freer, and theyunderstand each other's
challenges and they can dothings together, that will not
be condemned by their governmentor in the public sector, that
they fight together. When theMuslim ban was put on by our
former President Trump, mydaughter and I went to the
(28:16):
demonstration. My daughter waspetrified that her mother was
going to be kicked out of thecountry. But I took her
specially so she could witnessit. There were more Jews
standing up for Muslims thanthere were Muslims at that
demonstration in New York City.I cannot tell you how amazing
that feeling was. And there wasthe No Hate No Fear March that I
(28:40):
was part of walking from overthe Brooklyn Bridge all the way
to Brooklyn. I was asked tospeak. They asked Muslims to
speak up for Jews and I did, infront of 7000 people at a rally.
This you will not see anywhereelse. There are places that are
desecrated, whether it's mosquesor graveyards and Muslims and
(29:02):
Jews health. We here inRiverdale fixed all the windows
of the synagogues when someonedesecrated them. I'm at a
Catholic College, I'm Muslim.You don't hear these stories
anywhere else.
Mehnaz Afridi (29:14):
The point is not that American Muslims are immune
from the antisemitism that'spresent in Pakistan or Egypt.
The US isn't exceptional in thatsense, just as it wasn't immune
to various strains of Europeanantisemitism. The point is just
that there are durabletraditions of joint activism and
(29:34):
inter religious dialogue. Andthese traditions make it
possible for Jews and Muslimsand for Jews and other groups to
work together againstIslamophobia, antisemitism, and
other forms of bigotry. And thishappens all over the United
States. There are interfaithcouncils in every city. There
(29:54):
are national interfaithnetworks. It's not just Muslims
and Jews. It's African Americansand Jews, evangelicals and Jews.
These partnerships are notpanaceas. They're difficult and
hard to maintain. But we do havethese interfaith interethnic
partnerships and alliances.These dialogues have a long
(30:14):
history in the US. Their rootsdon't go as deep as the roots of
antisemitism, but they are solidroots, they're not easy to pull out.
Mark Oppenheimer (30:27):
Despite the very real history of
antisemitism, American Jews haveusually chosen to focus on the
many ways that this countrydiffered from the countries
their ancestors left behind.Historians too have sometimes
made anti semitism a relativelyminor theme in the history of
American Judaism. From thisperspective, the US can seem
exceptional. But throughout thisseries, we've tried to
(30:50):
complicate that narrative.Here's historian David Sorkin,
author of the book JewishEmancipation
David Sorkin (30:57):
America as the place of promise and freedom,
which is part of the notion ofAmerican exceptionalism, that
America itself is a democracythat includes all peoples in
citizenship. And of course, thenthere's the Jewish version of
(31:17):
that, American Jewishexceptionalism, that America is
different from Europe, in thesense that American Jews were,
especially as white men, equalcitizens under federal law from
the start, so that there was noemancipation process.
Mark Oppenheimer (31:35):
By contrast, Sorkin understands American Jews
as having worked for manydecades to achieve their full
and equal citizenship. Theresults paralleled the way that
European Jews achieved theircitizenship.
David Sorkin (31:49):
So then I would argue that instead, an
alternative way of seeingAmerican Jewish history, is that
American Jews from the start,had to mobilize to become full
citizens, and that they had tomobilize to maintain that
equality as well. So the firsttime they have to mobilize in
(32:12):
the early 19th century, inMaryland, and North Carolina and
elsewhere, Jews had to mobilizeto gain in political rights in
the States. They have tomobilize is in the post World
War Two period from 1945 to1968, or 1970, during the Civil
(32:32):
Rights era. Now, it's often thecase that when Jews think about
their relationship to the civilrights era, they see it in terms
of altruism. You know, the Jewswent to the south to register
African American voters, thatthere were these voter rights
(32:53):
activists who were murdered inthe South. Or they point to the
fact of the theologian AbrahamJoshua Heschel, march arm in arm
with Martin Luther King in theSouth and in the north. But
that's only a very small part ofthe story. What the civil rights
(33:15):
movement was about, was forJews, white ethnic Americans,
and African Americans to gainthe civil rights of which they
were being deprived. Thebeneficiaries of the civil
rights movement, were in part,African Americans and an African
American middle class grew as aresult of that. But the real
(33:39):
beneficiaries of the CivilRights Acts, equal opportunity
employment, Fair Housing Act,end to quotas and discrimination
in educational institutions werewhite Americans, Italians,
Irish, and Jews.
Mark Oppenheimer (33:57):
The Civil Rights Movement achieved some
but not all of its goals forAfrican Americans, and many
other groups from NativeAmericans to the disabled found
that the objectives of the CivilRights Movement pertained to
their own struggles for fullinclusion and opportunity. What
Sorkin is saying is that forJews, the Civil Rights Movement
(34:17):
was about more than altruism. Ittook that common cause for Jews
to achieve what today we callfull and equal citizenship, to
make it illegal for employers,universities, hotels, and
landlords to discriminateagainst Jews.
The United States has never beenimmune to the antisemitism that
(34:39):
exists elsewhere. Jews here havehad to fight for their
citizenship. At the same time,the particulars of American
history are different. InEurope, Jews were the most
salient minority in Christiansocieties. In the US, the
fundamental division has beenthe color line. And because of
this, Jews have not featured assignificantly in US history as
(35:02):
they have in European or modernMiddle Eastern countries. In the
20th century, at least, theAmerican Jewish fight for
citizenship and againstdiscrimination took place in the
broader context of the AmericanCivil Rights Movement. And it
was relatively easier, not easybut easier for American Jews to
secure their citizenship than itwas for European Jews, or for
(35:26):
African Americans. ManyAmericans understand Jews as
white, privileged, and wealthy,a group at the top. And perhaps
because of that, there's been ahesitancy on the part of many
Americans to understand thedangers of antisemitism, not
only to Jews, but to all of us.
The history presented in thispodcast should discourage
(35:49):
Americans from shrugging theirshoulders at the ongoing
challenge of anti semitism.Indeed, from shrugging their
shoulders at any kind of hate.The white supremacists who came
to Charlottesville in 2017 wantan America in which only whites
and Christians feel at home. Andthe good news is that the vast
(36:09):
majority of Americans rejectthat future. Most Americans
still think about antisemitismor anti Jewish hatred as a
German problem from the 1930sand 1940s. Or they think of it
as something that just sprang upin the last 10 years because of
a particular politician or aparticular geopolitical
conflict. Neither of thosetheories is true. American anti
(36:33):
semitism has a long history andour past is ever with us. But
throughout that history, peopleof different backgrounds have
joined together against hatredand bigotry. And today, we must
approach this challenge with thesame courage, conviction, and
persistence as people did in thepast. So that together, we can
(36:54):
build a better future. One that,to quote President Washington,
"gives to bigotry no sanction."
(37:14):
Thank you for listening toAntisemitism, U.S.A. it's a
production of R2 Studios, partof the Roy Rosenzweig Center for
History and New Media at GeorgeMason University. Visit
R2studios.org for a completetranscript of today's episode
and for suggestions for furtherreading. I'm your host Mark
Oppenheimer. Antisemitism,U.S.A. is written by John Turner
and Lincoln Mullen. Britt Tevisis our lead scholar, Jim Ambuske
(37:35):
is our producer, JeanettePatrick is our executive
producer. We'd like to thank ZevEleff for being our lead advisor
and we'd like to thank ouradvisory board members, Laura
Shaw Frank, Riv-Ellen Prell, andJonathan Sonam. Our graduate
assistants are Rachel Birch,Alexandra Miller, and Amber
Pelham. Our thanks to YairRosenberg, Jonathan Greenblatt,
Mehnaz Afridi, and David Sorkinfor sharing their expertise with
(37:56):
us in this episode. Archivalaudio material courtesy of the
White House, C-SPAN, and GettyImages. We're able to bring you
this show through the generosityof the Henry Luce Foundation,
the David Bruce SmithFoundation, and many individual
donors like you. Thank you for listening
Support for Antisemitism, U.S.A. comes from
(00:02):
the Henry Luce Foundation andthe David Bruce Smith
Foundation.
Crowd (00:12):
(crowd noises)
Mark Oppenheimer (00:13):
In August 2017, white supremacists
gathered in Charlottesville,Virginia for what they called
the Unite the Right rally. Theywere there to protest the
removal of a statue ofConfederate General Robert E
Lee. The major rally is notgoing to take place until August
(00:34):
11. But the night before, about200 men and women, many of them
carrying tiki torches march ontothe University of Virginia
campus. And as they march, theychant.
Crowd (00:52):
You will not replace us. You will not replace us.
(ongoing beneath narration)
Mark Oppenheimer (00:56):
They march onto the lawn and approach the
campus Rotunda. And their chantbecomes more specific. They
holler, "Jews will not replaceus." And they shout a Nazi chant
about purifying white soil fromJewish and other polluting
blood. There's also a smallergroup of counter protesters, and
(01:20):
the two groups shout at eachother. In a menacing, terrifying
way. The white nationalistssurround the counter protesters.
Police have to step in. The nextday, the main rally takes place
at Emancipation Park, formerlyknown as Robert E. Lee Park, and
(01:43):
a lot of unsavory folks show up.There's the Ku Klux Klan, the
League of the South, far rightTV host Nick Fuentes. Neo Nazi
Richard Spencer is there as isformer KKK Grand Wizard David
Duke. The Unite the Right rallywas ostensibly about a statue of
(02:05):
a Confederate General, but themarchers were equal opportunity
haters. They spewed venomagainst black people, Jews,
gays, and anyone who they feltwas opposing them. One of the
Neo Nazis at the rally held up asign that declared "Jews are
Satan's children." It listed afew New Testament verses and
(02:25):
then concluded with a referenceto the Jewish scripture that
said, "Talmud is a childmolester's Bible." Tragically,
these weren't just words. When awhite supremacist drove his car
into a crowd of anti racists,Heather Heyer was hit and
killed. What happened inCharlottesville was shocking to
(02:47):
many Americans. But the ideasare not surprising. The
Christian bigotry, the racistfear of Jewish blood weakening
white American stock, theconspiracy theories, all of them
have a history
(03:09):
I'm Mark Oppenheimer, and thisis Antisemitism, U.S.A., a
podcast about the history ofantisemitism in the United
States. Episode 10 Between Hateand Hope. On this final episode,
we'll explore some of theserecent trends and ask how we
might better understand them inlight of the longer history of
(03:30):
antisemitism in this country.It's a history that gives us
well grounded reasons for bothconcern and optimism. Racial
antisemitism had mostly fadedfrom public view by the 1960s.
But if the 2017 Charlottesvilleriots taught us anything, anti
blackness and anti Judaism oftenappear side by side. Since the
(03:54):
early 1900s, white supremacy andantisemitism had been closely
connected. The lynching of LeoFrank, a Jew, in Georgia in
1915, was one of theinspirations for the rebirth of
the Ku Klux Klan. The antiimmigration laws of the 1920s
were passed, in part, becauseNativists argued that Jewish
(04:15):
blood would weaken the country'sracial stock. In the 1930s, the
silver shirts, followers ofWilliam Pelley, armed themselves
and trained for an anticipatedrace war. Other groups persisted
after World War Two and fromtime to time, Nazis in uniform
would parade through Americantowns.
(04:39):
In 1970, Frank Collin formed theNational Socialist Party of
America, and he planned to marchin Skokie, Illinois, a
predominantly Jewish suburb ofChicago, where one in six
residents was a Holocaustsurvivor. Collin and his Nazis
got a lot of media attention,and the Illinois Supreme Court
ruled that they had the right topeacefully march. President
(05:03):
Jimmy Carter released astatement about the Skokie March
which read, "I must respect thedecision of the Supreme Court
allowing this group to expresstheir views, even when those
views are despicable and ugly asthey are in this case. But if
such views must be expressed, Iam pleased that they will not go
unanswered. That is why I wantto voice my complete solidarity
(05:23):
with those citizens of Skokie inChicago, who will gather Sunday
in a peaceful demonstration oftheir abhorrence of Nazism."
Carter had no trouble upholdingfree speech and denouncing Nazis
at the same time. Now, after theCharlottesville rally in 2017,
this is what President DonaldTrump had to say.
Donald Trump (05:43):
Yes, I think there's blame on both sides. You
look at, you look at both sides.I think there's blame on both
sides. And I have no doubt aboutit, and you don't have any doubt
about it either. And, and, andif you reported it accurately,
you would say.
Mark Oppenheimer (06:01):
When a reporter objected that the Neo
Nazis started the whole problemby coming to Charlottesville,
Trump continued.
Donald Trump (06:07):
And you had some very bad people in that group.
But you also had people thatwere very fine people on both
sides. You had people in thatgroup? Excuse me, excuse me, I
saw the same pictures as youdid. You had people in that
group that were there to protestthe taking down of, to them a
(06:29):
very, very important statue, andthe renaming of a park from
Robert E. Lee to another name.
Mark Oppenheimer (06:35):
It would seem there's a big difference between
these two presidentialresponses. Carter was
unequivocal in condemning Nazis.By contrast, Trump vacillated
back and forth betweencondemning racism and hatred,
and blaming both or many sidesfor the violence in
Charlottesville. Along withtheir Democratic colleagues,
(06:56):
many national Republican leadersforthrightly condemned the Unite
the Right rally. But thePresident did not.
You can think of Trump as beinga kind of philosemite, not
somebody who hates Jews, butsomeone who believes all the
stereotypes about them. Here'sYair Rosenberg, a staff writer
at The Atlantic who coverspolitics and religion, and
(07:17):
writes a lot about contemporaryantisemitism.
Yair Rosenberg (07:20):
The other form of philosemitism is actually the
inverse of anti semitism, whichis to say, people accept the
same stereotypes about Jews thatantisemites do, but they
understand them positively. Soinstead of Jews being very
clever and scheming andmanipulating others, negatively,
Jews are very clever. They'revery smart, and you want them
(07:42):
running your banks, right?They're very good with money. I
want a Jewish lawyer, and all ofthese sorts of ideas. An example
of someone who thinks this wayabout Jewish people, former
President Donald Trump. Hespeaks about Jews in what seemed
like antisemitic terms, but he'snot intending those things as a
tax. He invited, as president,Jews to the White House and
(08:04):
talked to them about Israel,would talk about it as your
country. And he would talk aboutBenjamin Netanyahu as your Prime
Minister, this idea that Jewsare actually really cutouts for
Israelis, possessing dualloyalties, and so forth. But
again, he wasn't doing this withthe intent to insult, right, or
attack. And people are veryconfused by this. They're like,
how is Trump saying theseantisemitic things, but yet he
(08:24):
has a Jewish son in law, and heconceives of himself as a friend
of the Jews. But it actuallymakes sense because Trump is a
philo semite of the secondmould. He believes all these
antisemitic stereotypes, but headmires those stereotypes
because Trump is the ultimateself interested actor. He thinks
that you should always look outfor yourself before anybody
else. So where others would lookat that and say that's an
(08:47):
antisemitic attack, Trump seesthis as a compliment.
Mark Oppenheimer (08:50):
While Trump didn't record his private
conversations, he has saidplenty in public. He has
commented on Jewish money,Jewish power, Jewish ingratitude
toward him, and how there aregood Jews and bad Jews. In
another respect, though, Trump'sequivocation was a watershed
moment.
For much of the last century,national conservative leaders
(09:12):
have wanted to keep far rightantisemites and white
supremacists not just at arm'slength, but even farther away.
Being associated with the JohnBirch Society, let alone Neo
Nazis, was considered politicalpoison. Sure, politicians might
find a way to appeal to whitesupremacists, but they tried to
be sneaky about it.
Yair Rosenberg (09:32):
Trump brought a lot of fringe people closer to
the center of the discourse. Andof course, some of those people
were going to be antisemites andgive that seven years to
marinate. And a lot of peopleare now like, they're second
tier conservative influencers.They haven't yet made it to the
inner circle. But they're honingin. And there's a surprising
amount of this and people do notrealize it. You can see it on
social media based on who'sretweeting who, who's reading
(09:54):
who and what they're sharing.You know, these people are part
of the conversation. They're atevents with Trump's kids, and
stuff like that. It's why Trumpends up at dinner with Nick
Fuentes and Kanye and thingslike that. It's not a
coincidence. This is going on.
Mark Oppenheimer (10:08):
It's not a coincidence. Let's step back and
take a broader look at therecent trajectory of American
antisemitism. Here's JonathanGreenblatt, the CEO of the Anti
Defamation League, which hasbeen tracking antisemitic
attitudes for decades,
Jonathan Greenblatt (10:23):
We've been tracking antisemitic attitudes
since the 1960s. So longer thanany other, as far as I'm aware,
of any other entity in society,we've been doing the kind of
longitudinal research that givesus the benefit of a broad set of
information. First, in 1962, or63, ADL started working with
(10:44):
sociologists at the Universityof California, Berkeley, to
develop kind of a questionnaireand a means by which you could
assess antisemitic attitudesamong the general population. So
this is sort of classic marketresearch. And in the span of a
set of questions are 14different stereotypes about
(11:08):
Jewish people. Do you think theJews responsible for the World
Wars? If you say yes to that,but no to say the 13 other myths
or tropes, then you're notconsidered someone with deep
antisemitism. But respondingpositively to six or more of the
question constitutes what thesociologist defined as, quote,
(11:31):
extensive antisemitic attitudes.That's where we become
concerned. So when the ADL talksabout measuring antisemitic
attitudes, we're looking forwhat percent of the general
population respond positively tosix or more of these myths.
Mark Oppenheimer (11:46):
For most of the last 60 years, the results
of this survey were at least twosomewhat comforting. Things were
headed in the right direction.
Jonathan Greenblatt (11:53):
When ADL issued our first survey, in
1964, roughly 30% held classicantisemitic attitudes, meaning
responding affirmatively to sixor more of the questions. Now,
since that first study, thenumbers basically have ticked
downward over the ensuingdecades. And they kind of have
(12:18):
bounced between like 8 and 12%,over a number of decades. So
what does that mean? It meansthat between eight and 12%, of
the general population, nonJewish, affirmed antisemitic
attitudes. So when we ran thesurvey in 2019, it was roughly
11%.
Mark Oppenheimer (12:40):
That would suggest that about 38 and a half
million Americans give or take,have extensive antisemitic
attitudes.
Jonathan Greenblatt (12:48):
That's a lot of people. I just want to
say that out loud. It's not asmall number. But nonetheless,
it's within the range that wehave come to expect.
Mark Oppenheimer (12:57):
If you're guessing that the news has
gotten worse, you are correct.
Jonathan Greenblatt (13:00):
When we read the survey, 2022, it came
back 20%. So from 11%, in 2019,to 20%, in 2022. Now, by the
way, for what it's worth, thiswas pre Kanye West. This was pre
(13:21):
Kyrie Irving, some very bigmoments in like the public
conversation about antisemitism.So this was pretty alarming to
us. In fact, that number of 20%was the highest we'd seen in the
last 30 years of doing thesurvey.
Mark Oppenheimer (13:37):
And if you drill down into the data even
more, the news gets worse.
Jonathan Greenblatt (13:42):
3% of the respondents responded
affirmatively to all 14 of thequestions. 3% out of 100 seems
like a small number
Mark Oppenheimer (13:53):
3% of the country, that's about 10 million
people,
Jonathan Greenblatt (13:56):
That 3% is more than the total population
of Jews in the country. To thinkthat there's more of them than
there are of Jews is, is, Ithink, at a minimum, that's a
little bit sobering.
Mark Oppenheimer (14:12):
Even more sobering, there's been a
corresponding increase inantisemitic incidents.
Jonathan Greenblatt (14:17):
So last year, we tracked and this is all
public information, 3697 antisemitic incidents. That's the
highest number we've evertracked. That number is 36%
higher than the previous year.That all time high, again, was
(14:39):
preceded by 2021, which itselfwas an all time high. And prior
to that the previous all timehigh was 2019. So three times
the past five years, we'vereached new, all time highs. The
data shows us that antisemiticincidents are increasing. The
harass splinters increasing,that was up 26%, and acts of
(15:04):
violence are up another 26%.
Mark Oppenheimer (15:06):
Out of the more than 100 assaults
documented by the ADL, more thanhalf targeted visibly Orthodox
Jews. The ADL also includes inits count a large number of what
it terms anti Zionist and antiIsrael incidents. For this
category, the ADL differentiatesbetween what it terms legitimate
(15:26):
political protest, orexpressions of opposition to
Israeli policies, and antiZionist antisemitism. What would
be anti Zionist antisemitismaccording to the ADL? Well, they
would say a boycott,divestments, and sanctions
resolution, BDS, or an IsraeliApartheid week. Not everyone
agrees with how the ADLcategorizes these incidents. But
(15:49):
whatever your definition, if youlook at the data, you'll see
that public antisemitism hasticked up in the United States.
And in the wake of the October7, Hamas terrorist attacks
against Israel, anti Zionist andanti Israel incidents
skyrocketed, as did other formsof antisemitic incidents.
(16:11):
If you've been listening to theshow, you probably don't need to
be convinced that there's aproblem. It may not be a huge
problem. Numerically speaking,the odds that any Jew is going
to be a target of antisemiticviolence, whether walking down
the street or studying on auniversity campus, is very, very
small. But still, there'sCharlottesville in 2017. There
(16:35):
are the Tree of Life synagogueshootings in Pittsburgh in 2018.
There were the three people shotand killed at a kosher grocery
store in Jersey City in 2019.There was the hostage taking at
a temple in Colleyville, Texasin 2022. And surveys do show
that anti Jewish attitudes aregoing up. All of this leaves us
(16:57):
with some tough questions. Howdo we make sense of antisemitism
in the United States today? Whyhave things gotten worse? How
bad is it? Can we do anythingabout it? We will return to
these questions after the break.
(17:19):
In May 2023, President Joe Bidenlaunched a national strategy to
counter antisemitism. Here he isspeaking at the event.
Joe Biden (17:28):
Six years ago, Neo Nazis marched out of a field in
Charlottesville, Virginia,literally carrying torches and
neo Nazi flags, and spewing thesame antisemitic bile that was
heard across Europe in the 30s.In the process, a young woman
was killed. What did you hear?There are very fine people on
(17:49):
both sides. Come on. A reminderthat hate never goes away. It
only hides. Give it just alittle bit of oxygen. It comes
out from under those rocks witha vengeance. In the past several
years hate has been given toomuch oxygen, fueling a record
rise in antisemitism. It'ssimply wrong. It's not only,
(18:10):
it's immoral, it's unacceptable.It's on all of us. It's on all
of us to stop it. We must sayclearly and forcefully that
antisemitism and all forms ofhate and violence have no place
in America. And silence. Silenceis complicity and you cannot
remain silent. I will not remainsilent. You should not either.
(18:32):
That's why today I'm releasingthe first ever national strategy
to counter antisemitism.
Mark Oppenheimer (18:38):
His four pronged plan includes
initiatives focused oneducation, safety and security,
online antisemitism, andbuilding multifaith
partnerships. And the fact thatthe US has a national plan for
combating antisemitism is ahistorical landmark. Also, the
US now has a Special Envoy toMonitor and Combat Antisemitism.
(19:00):
Deborah Lipstadt was confirmedfor the job in 2022. Here she is
speaking at the same event asBiden.
Deborah Lipstadt (19:08):
This is a historic moment in the modern
fight against what's known asthe world's oldest hatred. For
the first time, the UnitedStates government is not only
acknowledging that antisemitismis a serious problem in this
country, but laying out a clearplan to counter it.
Mark Oppenheimer (19:33):
Before holding her current role, Lipstadt was a
professor of history at EmoryUniversity and the author of
many books. Despite the rise inantisemitic incidents, when she
looks to the past, she findsreasons for optimism.
Deborah Lipstadt (19:45):
This moment is historic for another reason.
Just consider where we are. Wegather in a building that was
once the home of the state andwar departments. We come
together to release a plan forcombatting Jew hatred in a place
Mark Oppenheimer (20:01):
In other words, antisemitism remains a
where just over four decadesago, a form of Jew hatred took
shape as official policy, asState Department officials
erected so called paper wallsaround this country to prevent
Jews from entering our borders.We assemble with memories of a
serious and heightened threat.But at least the United States
(20:22):
dark time, when a White Housestaff counseled the president to
stand firm against letting Jewsin, when members of Congress
sought to halt anyliberalization of American, of
immigration laws, even afterKristallnacht. When an intense
bipartisan effort to allow theentry of Jewish children whose
(20:45):
parents were in concentrationcamps was met with rejection and
inhumanity. Even though a yearlater, when London was being
government is contending againstit rather than abetting it.
bombed, Congress rushed to makeroom for British children to
enter this country. You don'tneed my historical expertise to
recognize the sole differencebetween these two sets of
(21:09):
children. That was then. Todayis very different.
Deborah Lipstadt (21:23):
This could not be more essential, because this
scourge threatens not just thesafety of Jews, but the strength
of our democracy. Here again,history is instructive, telling
us that where anti semitismpersists. Democracy suffers
(21:44):
Where Jews are at risks, so too,are the rights of everyone, from
every race, religion, ethnicity,or creed. Yet, where communities
and nations step forward tocombat anti semitism, they tend
to emerge more secure, morefree, and more fair for all.
Mark Oppenheimer (22:06):
Anti Jewish hatred and prejudice clearly
have not disappeared. Far fromit. Why? One way to make sense
of the present moment is to lookat what got us here. I don't
mean the past 10 years or thepast 20 or even the past 50. I
mean, looking at the very deepand complex roots in American
culture throughout our history,the anti Jewishness of Christian
(22:29):
theology, the tropes aboutJewish merchants, the
racialization of Jews, all theconspiracy theories about Jewish
bankers, communists, mediamoguls, politicians. Because the
pervasive antisemitism of the19th and early 20th centuries
had faded by the 1960s, manyAmericans thought it was just
(22:50):
gone, it was a thing of thepast. That has not proven to be
the case. Given thatantisemitism had such deep
roots, not just here, but aroundthe world, we probably shouldn't
be surprised that it remains aproblem today. Experts sometimes
compare antisemitism to a virusthat mutates and shapeshifts.
(23:10):
It's a problem that fades fromview, but inevitably resurfaces.
Why does it seem to be gettingworse or at least more visible
today?
We've pointed to a few factors.There's the ability of
antisemites to spread theirviews through social media.
There's the toleration or evenencouragement of antisemitism by
certain politicians on both theright and the left. There's the
(23:34):
fact that anti Zionist and antiIsrael activism can stoke anti
semitism, especially withincertain communities, recently on
college campuses, there are alsoother pockets of anti Jewish
hatred. There is specificallyMuslim antisemitism in some
communities and the blackIsraelite movement. And of
course, there's the whitesupremacism of the far right.
(23:56):
But if American history helps usmake sense of our current
problems, it also gives usgrounds for hope, because we
also have deeply rooteddemocratic and inter cultural
traditions that can help usfight bigotry. We talked with
one woman who exemplifies thesetraditions.
Unknown (24:14):
I'm Dr. Mehnaz Afridi. I teach Islam and the Holocaust
at Manhattan College in thereligious studies department.
And I'm also the director of theHolocaust, Genocide, and
Interfaith Education Center hereat Manhattan. My job as a
Muslim, and I take thisseriously, and a scholar, is to
(24:35):
inform my Muslim community ofthe facts of the Holocaust. The
encounters that I've had, andwhat I've read is always
relativizing this idea of 6million to 2 million, 6 million
to 1 million, the denial you geteven from Holocaust deniers that
(24:58):
will say, Oh, well, you know,there weren't really ovens,
there weren't reallyEinsatzgruppen, all these
things. That I don't thinkMuslims are really concerned
with, what they're concernedwith is they must have done
something to be killed.
Mark Oppenheimer (25:11):
There is a long and complicated 1400 years
of history between Muslims andJews. Muslims develop their own
traditions of anti Judaism. Andthen Arab and other Muslim
countries imported Europeanantisemitism over the course of
the 19th and 20th centuries, theProtocols of the Elders of Zion
remain readily accessible andthey're popular in many Muslim
(25:32):
countries today. Mehnaz Afridiwas born in Pakistan. And here's
some of her thoughts about antiJudaism there.
Unknown (25:39):
I remember going to the butcher, and it was a bird flu
time. And uh, basically a signan order that basically said,
you know, the Jews have poisonedthe birds. Where does that come
from? And this is in Karachimarketplace, right. And then, I
remember I was in Karachi. And Iwas going to LA, I think, and
(26:02):
there was a bomb in Karachi. Andthis is like, during the height
of like, 9/11. And it was funny,none of my family said this,
because I was there, I think.But after I left, you know, my
mom got on the phone. She goes,you know, the Jews were bombing
the city. And I was like, whywould the Jews be bombing
Karachi? These things are alwaysthere.
Mark Oppenheimer (26:23):
In other words, antisemitism is pervasive
in much of the Muslim world,whether in Pakistan or Egypt or
elsewhere. And the IsraeliPalestinian conflict has
exacerbated tensions betweenJews and Muslims. But Mehnaz
Afridi sees a criticaldifference in the United States.
Unknown (26:39):
I argue all the time in my work, that there is a really
strong Muslim Jewish Americanalliance in the United States
that I have not seen orexperienced anywhere else. There
are more interfaith initiatives,there are more groups, more
nonprofit groups that are doingthis kind of work. I'm part of a
(27:00):
lot of those groups. I thinkit's very strong. I think
there's also conversations nowabout Israel and Palestine, that
are painful. But people arepushing the envelope and they're
pushing it hard because Jews andMuslims are the religious
minorities in America that aremost attacked. You know, the
(27:21):
highest number of incidences inthe United States is against
Jews. And second, right aroundthe corner is what Muslims,
especially women in hijab.
Mehnaz Afridi (27:31):
Now, why is it better here? We have religious
freedom. It's in ourConstitution, we could not put
on the Muslim ban, because it'santi constitutional, religious
discrimination. That is huge.
Mark Oppenheimer (27:47):
As religious minorities in a predominantly
Christian country, Jews andMuslims have stood up for each
Unknown (27:52):
Muslim Americans and Jewish Americans do better here,
other.
because they are freer, and theyunderstand each other's
challenges and they can dothings together, that will not
be condemned by their governmentor in the public sector, that
they fight together. When theMuslim ban was put on by our
former President Trump, mydaughter and I went to the
(28:16):
demonstration. My daughter waspetrified that her mother was
going to be kicked out of thecountry. But I took her
specially so she could witnessit. There were more Jews
standing up for Muslims thanthere were Muslims at that
demonstration in New York City.I cannot tell you how amazing
that feeling was. And there wasthe No Hate No Fear March that I
(28:40):
was part of walking from overthe Brooklyn Bridge all the way
to Brooklyn. I was asked tospeak. They asked Muslims to
speak up for Jews and I did, infront of 7000 people at a rally.
This you will not see anywhereelse. There are places that are
desecrated, whether it's mosquesor graveyards and Muslims and
(29:02):
Jews health. We here inRiverdale fixed all the windows
of the synagogues when someonedesecrated them. I'm at a
Catholic College, I'm Muslim.You don't hear these stories
anywhere else.
Mehnaz Afridi (29:14):
The point is not that American Muslims are immune
from the antisemitism that'spresent in Pakistan or Egypt.
The US isn't exceptional in thatsense, just as it wasn't immune
to various strains of Europeanantisemitism. The point is just
that there are durabletraditions of joint activism and
(29:34):
inter religious dialogue. Andthese traditions make it
possible for Jews and Muslimsand for Jews and other groups to
work together againstIslamophobia, antisemitism, and
other forms of bigotry. And thishappens all over the United
States. There are interfaithcouncils in every city. There
(29:54):
are national interfaithnetworks. It's not just Muslims
and Jews. It's African Americansand Jews, evangelicals and Jews.
These partnerships are notpanaceas. They're difficult and
hard to maintain. But we do havethese interfaith interethnic
partnerships and alliances.These dialogues have a long
(30:14):
history in the US. Their rootsdon't go as deep as the roots of
antisemitism, but they are solidroots, they're not easy to pull out.
Mark Oppenheimer (30:27):
Despite the very real history of
antisemitism, American Jews haveusually chosen to focus on the
many ways that this countrydiffered from the countries
their ancestors left behind.Historians too have sometimes
made anti semitism a relativelyminor theme in the history of
American Judaism. From thisperspective, the US can seem
exceptional. But throughout thisseries, we've tried to
(30:50):
complicate that narrative.Here's historian David Sorkin,
author of the book JewishEmancipation
David Sorkin (30:57):
America as the place of promise and freedom,
which is part of the notion ofAmerican exceptionalism, that
America itself is a democracythat includes all peoples in
citizenship. And of course, thenthere's the Jewish version of
(31:17):
that, American Jewishexceptionalism, that America is
different from Europe, in thesense that American Jews were,
especially as white men, equalcitizens under federal law from
the start, so that there was noemancipation process.
Mark Oppenheimer (31:35):
By contrast, Sorkin understands American Jews
as having worked for manydecades to achieve their full
and equal citizenship. Theresults paralleled the way that
European Jews achieved theircitizenship.
David Sorkin (31:49):
So then I would argue that instead, an
alternative way of seeingAmerican Jewish history, is that
American Jews from the start,had to mobilize to become full
citizens, and that they had tomobilize to maintain that
equality as well. So the firsttime they have to mobilize in
(32:12):
the early 19th century, inMaryland, and North Carolina and
elsewhere, Jews had to mobilizeto gain in political rights in
the States. They have tomobilize is in the post World
War Two period from 1945 to1968, or 1970, during the Civil
(32:32):
Rights era. Now, it's often thecase that when Jews think about
their relationship to the civilrights era, they see it in terms
of altruism. You know, the Jewswent to the south to register
African American voters, thatthere were these voter rights
(32:53):
activists who were murdered inthe South. Or they point to the
fact of the theologian AbrahamJoshua Heschel, march arm in arm
with Martin Luther King in theSouth and in the north. But
that's only a very small part ofthe story. What the civil rights
(33:15):
movement was about, was forJews, white ethnic Americans,
and African Americans to gainthe civil rights of which they
were being deprived. Thebeneficiaries of the civil
rights movement, were in part,African Americans and an African
American middle class grew as aresult of that. But the real
(33:39):
beneficiaries of the CivilRights Acts, equal opportunity
employment, Fair Housing Act,end to quotas and discrimination
in educational institutions werewhite Americans, Italians,
Irish, and Jews.
Mark Oppenheimer (33:57):
The Civil Rights Movement achieved some
but not all of its goals forAfrican Americans, and many
other groups from NativeAmericans to the disabled found
that the objectives of the CivilRights Movement pertained to
their own struggles for fullinclusion and opportunity. What
Sorkin is saying is that forJews, the Civil Rights Movement
(34:17):
was about more than altruism. Ittook that common cause for Jews
to achieve what today we callfull and equal citizenship, to
make it illegal for employers,universities, hotels, and
landlords to discriminateagainst Jews.
The United States has never beenimmune to the antisemitism that
(34:39):
exists elsewhere. Jews here havehad to fight for their
citizenship. At the same time,the particulars of American
history are different. InEurope, Jews were the most
salient minority in Christiansocieties. In the US, the
fundamental division has beenthe color line. And because of
this, Jews have not featured assignificantly in US history as
(35:02):
they have in European or modernMiddle Eastern countries. In the
20th century, at least, theAmerican Jewish fight for
citizenship and againstdiscrimination took place in the
broader context of the AmericanCivil Rights Movement. And it
was relatively easier, not easybut easier for American Jews to
secure their citizenship than itwas for European Jews, or for
(35:26):
African Americans. ManyAmericans understand Jews as
white, privileged, and wealthy,a group at the top. And perhaps
because of that, there's been ahesitancy on the part of many
Americans to understand thedangers of antisemitism, not
only to Jews, but to all of us.
The history presented in thispodcast should discourage
(35:49):
Americans from shrugging theirshoulders at the ongoing
challenge of anti semitism.Indeed, from shrugging their
shoulders at any kind of hate.The white supremacists who came
to Charlottesville in 2017 wantan America in which only whites
and Christians feel at home. Andthe good news is that the vast
(36:09):
majority of Americans rejectthat future. Most Americans
still think about antisemitismor anti Jewish hatred as a
German problem from the 1930sand 1940s. Or they think of it
as something that just sprang upin the last 10 years because of
a particular politician or aparticular geopolitical
conflict. Neither of thosetheories is true. American anti
(36:33):
semitism has a long history andour past is ever with us. But
throughout that history, peopleof different backgrounds have
joined together against hatredand bigotry. And today, we must
approach this challenge with thesame courage, conviction, and
persistence as people did in thepast. So that together, we can
(36:54):
build a better future. One that,to quote President Washington,
"gives to bigotry no sanction."
(37:14):
Thank you for listening toAntisemitism, U.S.A. it's a
production of R2 Studios, partof the Roy Rosenzweig Center for
History and New Media at GeorgeMason University. Visit
R2studios.org for a completetranscript of today's episode
and for suggestions for furtherreading. I'm your host Mark
Oppenheimer. Antisemitism,U.S.A. is written by John Turner
and Lincoln Mullen. Britt Tevisis our lead scholar, Jim Ambuske
(37:35):
is our producer, JeanettePatrick is our executive
producer. We'd like to thank ZevEleff for being our lead advisor
and we'd like to thank ouradvisory board members, Laura
Shaw Frank, Riv-Ellen Prell, andJonathan Sonam. Our graduate
assistants are Rachel Birch,Alexandra Miller, and Amber
Pelham. Our thanks to YairRosenberg, Jonathan Greenblatt,
Mehnaz Afridi, and David Sorkinfor sharing their expertise with
(37:56):
us in this episode. Archivalaudio material courtesy of the
White House, C-SPAN, and GettyImages. We're able to bring you
this show through the generosityof the Henry Luce Foundation,
the David Bruce SmithFoundation, and many individual
donors like you. Thank you for listening
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