April 1, 2025 • 32 mins
Your smartphone is a computing device just like our desktop and laptop computers. How can you have a smartphone that isn't surveilled, censored, controlled, and constrained? Jordan discusses the challenges and solutions for achieving self-sovereignty with mobile devices. He critiques the limitations of iOS and explores the emerging landscape of Linux mobile devices. The episode focuses on de-Googled Android solutions like CalyxOS and GrapheneOS, elaborating on the latter's security features and compatibility with Google Pixel devices. Jordan also provides practical advice on acquiring and setting up these devices for enhanced privacy. Tune in to learn how you can reclaim control over your smartphone and boost your digital security.
Show Notes: https://atlbitlab.com/podcast/choosing-a-sovereign-mobile-operating-system
00:00 Understanding Google Play Services and Its Privileges
00:34 Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show
00:50 Introduction to Sovereign Computing and ATL BitLab
01:54 Episode Overview and Listener Interaction
02:57 Challenges of Achieving Self-Sovereignty with Smartphones
04:41 Exploring Mobile Operating Systems: iOS Limitations
06:39 Linux Mobile Devices: Pine Phone and Mecha Comet
09:34 Android as a Viable Option for Self-Sovereign Computing
11:03 De-Googled Android: CalyxOS and GrapheneOS
12:54 GrapheneOS: The Best Option for Privacy and Security
15:56 Purchasing and Installing GrapheneOS on Google Pixel
23:00 Using GrapheneOS and Alternative App Stores
28:52 Listener Feedback and Future Topics
31:47 Conclusion and Support Information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan Bravo (00:00):
Normally on Google's Android, Google Play Services
has highly elevated privileges.
And that's just cybersecurity speakfor, it has God Mode basically.
And it can and does monitoreverything that goes on on the phone.
You as the user do not havethe ability to disable it.
(00:20):
So Google Plays services, it, itcan see every app that's installed.
It monitors the usage of every app.
It monitors and tracks yourlocation and other telemetry
that it reports back to Google.
Welcome to the Sovereign ComputingShow, presented by ATL BitLab.
I'm Jordan Bravo, and this is apodcast where we teach you how to
(00:42):
take back control of your devices.
Sovereign Computing means you own yourtechnology, not the other way around.
Stephen DeLorme (00:52):
This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab.
ATL BitLab is Atlanta'sfreedom tech hacker space.
We have co working desks,conference rooms, event space,
maker tools, and tons of coffee.
There is a very activecommunity here in the lab.
Every Wednesday night isBitcoin night here in Atlanta.
We also have meetups for cyber security,artificial intelligence, decentralized
(01:12):
identity, product design, and more.
We offer day passes and nomad passesfor people who need to use the lab only
occasionally, as well as membershipsfor people who plan to use the lab
more regularly, such as myself.
One of the best things abouthaving a BitLab membership isn't
the amenities, it's the people.
Surrounding yourself with acommunity helps you learn faster
and helps you build better.
(01:34):
Your creativity becomes amplifiedwhen you work in this space,
that's what I think at least.
If you're interested in becominga member or supporting this space,
please visit us at atlbitlab.
com.
That's A T L B I T L A B dot com.
Alright, on to our show.
Jordan Bravo (01:55):
Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show.
I'm Jordan Bravo.
And today I have somethinga little different for you.
This is a solo episode.
Stephen will not be joining us.
Um, but we do have a greattopic that we're gonna get into.
But first I would like toremind everybody that you can.
Boost into the show and let usknow what you'd like to hear or
(02:18):
what you think about the topics.
You can do that by using theFountain app on Android or iOS, which
allows you to download the show.
And also to boost in with your boostograms, attach some SATs to a message
and we'll read 'em here on the show.
If you don't wanna do that, youcan also email the show at s o v e
(02:40):
r e i g n at atl bit lab dot com.
That's sovereign, s o v e r ei g n at atl bit lab dot com.
Today we're gonna talk about how dowe solve the problem of, we want to be
(03:01):
self-sovereign in our computing, but wewant to use a mobile computing device.
In other words, a smartphone that isn'tsurveilled and censored and controlled.
And constrained.
And make no mistake about it, asmartphone is a computing device just
like our desktop and laptop computers.
(03:24):
It has an operating system andapplications, and it's subject to most of
the same rules, constraints, trade-offs,and benefits as a larger computing device.
But there are someadditional considerations.
So when you go and you buy a laptopor a desktop computer, you have a lot
(03:50):
of choices and you've actually got.
The three major operating systems outthere are Windows, Mac, OS, and Linux.
And in another episode we'll getinto, we'll do a deep dive on
the desktop operating systems.
Spoiler alert, Linux is gonna be thefavorite one that's gonna be talked
(04:13):
about here, and we'll go into moredetail on that in that future episode.
But today we're gonna be talkingabout mobile operating systems.
So what are our, our options if wewant to use a modern smartphone mobile
computing device, but we don't wantto be surveilled and constrained
(04:34):
in all of those other things?
Well, let's look at the,at the options we have.
On the one hand, the iPhone.
The problem with the iPhone,as with most Apple devices, is
that it's extremely locked down.
The iPhone Boot ROM onlyallows iOS to be booted.
(04:57):
You can't put anotheroperating system on the iPhone.
You may have heard of something calledjailbreaking the iPhone, but jailbreaking
an iPhone only allows access to.
Uh, third party app stores andother additional options that
aren't normally available in iOS.
(05:17):
However, it doesn't allow youto put a completely different
operating system on it.
It's still iOS and jailbreaking.
An iPhone is not recommendedbecause even though it allows you
to put some additional software onthere, you lose the security model.
You break the security model of iOS.
You're no longer getting updatesfrom Apple and it's just, it's
(05:39):
not recommended to do that.
You will, you will make yourselfprobably less, definitely less
secure, and arguably you're notgaining any huge privacy advantages.
So, sorry to break it to you folkswho have iPhones as your daily
driver, but if you want to take fullsovereignty of your mobile computing.
(06:02):
And still have modernfeatures and modern software.
iPhones are just not an option.
And I say this to you assomebody who understands, I used
iPhones for a good amount of mycomputing, mobile computing life.
Um, I've used iOS, I've used Android,and um, iOS is a great experience in
(06:27):
many ways, but I. When it comes tofreedom, software freedom, they just,
it's, it's very constrained on iOS,so you don't have a lot of options.
Um, so we are going to move onto the next option, and the next
option is actually something youprobably don't see very often, and
(06:48):
that would be a Linux mobile device.
We're talking.
Not Android, which uses the Linux kernel,but actual Linux that would be able
to run similar apps to what you wouldhave on a desktop or laptop computer.
There are actually two phonesthat I want to bring up that
are potential Linux phones.
(07:09):
Um, the first one here is we're gonnatalk about is Pine Phone by Pine 64.
And for those of you watching thevideo, I've got this up on the screen.
And pine phone's been out for a few years.
It, uh, it runs a, I think it's an Ubuntuspecifically designed for mobile devices
(07:34):
and it seems to have decent hardware.
It's not the best in the world.
I have not personally used it, butfrom what I can tell and based on
what other people have reported it.
Still a little too early or, or theywere a little too early and they're
missing a lot of the features that youwould expect from a modern smartphone.
(07:59):
The next option is actually somethingthat's in progress or, or will be coming
out in the near future, and that is theMecha Comet Mecha, like M-E-C-H-A and.
Comet is the model and they've, they havea, a Kickstarter that they are gathering
(08:20):
funds for and they're going to ship this.
I. Don't remember if it's gonna beshipped in 2025 or 2026, but in any case,
it's not ready for public use for full.
Like they're not in production.
Um, I believe you.
They've shown up at conferences, sothey actually do have some hardware.
(08:43):
It's not vaporware.
At least it doesn't seem like it.
And I'm gonna be keeping an eye on thisas, as a potential mobile computing
device and see if, um, if I can getmy hands on one, I'm gonna try it out.
I'll, uh, I'll carry it around inparallel with my everyday device
and see if it could replace it.
So I, I've got some hopes for that.
(09:04):
But in the meantime, the bottom linewhen it comes to Linux phones is I
just don't think they're ready for.
Mainstream use, they might be okay forhobbyists and people who are really into
this kind of thing, but, uh, I'm notgonna recommend it to everybody, not
until I've tried it myself at least.
So if we, if we can't use iOS and wecan't use Linux, that leaves us with
(09:31):
the next major option, which is Android.
Now Android is actually known as theopen Android open source project.
And
the Android open source project, despitebeing developed primarily by Google,
(09:55):
is actually a completely open sourceproject, as the name suggests, that does
not have any Google specific code in it.
That's right.
People might assume that becauseGoogle is the major developing source
behind it, that it would be baked in.
But actually Android itself is freefrom Google's shenanigans and code,
(10:20):
and so the Android open source project,what Google does is it takes that base
code base and then they add in theirproprietary Google stuff, including.
The Google Play Store and allof the tracking and surveillance
technology that's built into that.
And so there have been some otherprojects, some other developers and
(10:44):
organizations that have actually takenthe Android open source project, started
with that baseline operating systemthat's free of Google and anything
else, um, proprietary and they have.
Built on top of it and created completelyGoogle free Android operating systems.
The first one that we're gonnatalk about today is Calyx.
(11:07):
Os.
Calyx is a Android version that is freeof spyware and tracking and Google, and
it's made by the Calyx Foundation andthey're very much focused on privacy.
And they have a good reputation in thespace they, for using, when you use
(11:31):
Calyx on an Android device, that is it.
It's de-Googled.
And so the first thing that a lot of userswanna know is, can I use the same apps
And the way that Calyx.
First of all, many apps work with zeroreliance on Google, but there are some
(11:54):
that do have a, uh, reliance on theGoogle proprietary code that's built
into, um, Google's version of Android.
And so Calyx gets around thisby providing something called
Micro G and it sort of simulates.
(12:14):
Google's services so that various appsthat require it to run can still run.
Uh, I'm not gonna speaktoo much more about Calyx.
I just want to put it out there thatit's a good option and I think it's
healthy that the privacy ecosystemhas more than one project that's
(12:35):
working on, uh, Google free Android.
But the next projectwe're gonna talk about is.
What I think is the best way to go abouthaving a free and de-Googled android
operating system and that's Graphene os.
Now, graphene OS is an open sourceAndroid operating system project
(13:02):
and they are highly focusedon, on privacy and security.
They're a nonprofit and they.
They, in fact, they're so focused onsecurity, they have such a good reputation
for improving the security of Android thatmany of their updates and improvements to
(13:22):
the operating system have been upstreamedand they are used by Google as well.
So if, uh, you, you can use that as kindof an indication that they know what
they're doing when it comes to security.
Graphene OS is only supportedon the Google Pixel.
Now that might sound a little surprisingbecause the, you have a Google piece
(13:46):
of hardware and yet it's the onlyphone that they support if for de
Googling and running a Google free.
Android operating system, and there'ssome very specific reasons for why
they only support the Google Pixel,and that is the Google Pixel's.
Security hardware is unmatched inthe rest of the Android phone space.
(14:12):
They really do rival the iPhonein terms of the security and
quality of the hardware and.
There's an additional consideration, whichis that the Google Pixel is the only phone
that will allow the user to both unlockthe boot loader, put on another operating
(14:33):
system, and then relock the boot loader.
And what that means is if you have alocked boot loader and somebody has
physical access to your phone, theycan't load another operating system
on there or do anything malicious.
Um, I. They can't tamper withthe operating system or load
any kind of malware on there.
(14:54):
Whereas all the other phones that youwould buy that are Android compatible,
for example, Samsung, Motorola.
Et cetera.
You can unlock the boot loaderon some of them and load another
operating system onto there.
But then you can't relock the boot loader.
So your phone would then be susceptibleto what's referred to as an evil made
(15:17):
attack, where if your phone is left outand somebody has physical access to it,
they can then load malware on there andyou would have no idea that they had done
so if they're a sophisticated attacker.
So in short, the.
Pixel by Google, even though itironically comes from Google, which
(15:37):
is a company that we are trying to getaway from and is not present with any
of their software on GrapheneOS it, theymake the best hardware that's vendor
neutral and therefore is perfect forthese de Google and operating systems.
So where can you get a good pixel?
(15:59):
Most people know that you have yourcellular phone provider, and you
might be renting your phone from them,where you're paying a monthly fee
for your subscription, for your phonesubscription, and part of that price
baked in is the cost of your phone.
But this is actually a terrible wayto buy your phone, first of all.
(16:22):
You are gonna be buying a, you're gonna behaving a locked a, a carrier locked phone,
and which means you don't have the freedomto change your provider if you wanted to.
So when you are gonna buy a phone, buy itfrom places other than your carrier and
make sure that it is factory unlocked.
(16:43):
The other thing you wanna do is.
Buy it in a much moreprivate manner if possible.
So if you can buy it in person,maybe it's at a place like Best
Buy with Cash, that's great.
Or maybe you want to go a method and buya used one because you're gonna be wiping
the operating system from it anyway.
(17:03):
It's not a big deal.
You're gonna be loading anew operating system onto it.
So, uh, before we, we go into where youcould buy a phone to load Graphene os
onto, I wanna point out that there aresome companies now that are catering
to people who want Graphene OS orthese other privacy focused oss on.
(17:25):
Android phones.
Um, I'm gonna go over some ofthem right now, but I am not
endorsing or recommending these.
You'll see it why in a second.
But I think the best way to goabout it's to just buy one that
has regular Google, Android onit, and then put GrapheneOS on it.
Uh, do it yourself, andit's actually really easy.
(17:47):
You don't need to downloadany extra software.
If you have a web browser, whichevery computer does, it's a very.
Click, easy click install process.
And um, yeah, that's, I Ithink it's anybody listening to
this is capable of doing that.
There's no command line required.
No magical softwaredeveloper incantations.
(18:08):
This is all very graphical and you justfollow a simple set of instructions.
So there's a place called, there's asite called liberate your tech.com, and
they sell graph OS preloaded onto pixels.
I. But you're gonna see here.
The other reason why I don't recommendthat you go with one of these sites
is that they charge a huge premium.
(18:31):
So a pixel.
Let's take a look at some of these prices.
A pixel eight with 128 gigabytes of.
Storage.
They're selling it for 8 99,$900 and that's a huge premium.
Let's look at another site, private phoneshop.com, and they are selling a Pixel
(18:56):
eight Pro with Calyx OS or Lineage os.
That's another one we haven'ttalked about, but it's
another de Googled Android.
Uh, this is $750, andfinally there's another.
A company called Above Phone,and here they're advertising
a Pixel nine for $1,100.
(19:18):
And that comes with GoogleIbel, uh, excuse me, that
comes with graphene, I believe.
Lemme take a look at whatthey are advertising here,
but in any case.
(19:40):
I think anybody listening is perfectlycapable of buying a phone with Google
Android on it, the typical outta the boxone, and then adding, uh, grapho if to it.
If you look here on the site,swapa.com, this is a site that sells
for those of you don't know, theysell used and refurbished devices.
(20:03):
And if you look here underunlocked Google phones.
The comparable Pixel nine unlocked, whichwe just saw over here on above phone.com.
For $1,100, you can buy aused Pixel nine for $398.
(20:25):
So that's, that's a great deal.
I don't think that's, uh, spendingtoo much just to have, I mean,
to have a top of the line.
Phone that's completely unlockedand you can load whatever you
want onto it, and it's gonna becompletely private and self-sovereign.
You could even drop backa couple of generations.
(20:45):
The, the Pixel nine is thecurrent generation, uh, the Pixel
10 will be released later thisyear in probably August of 2025.
But even if you were to go withthe Pixel eight, let's say.
I mean, here's a Google Pixeleight for $293 on, uh, on Swapa.
(21:12):
And that's awesome.
That's a great deal.
Uh, you could even goback another generation.
The A models are the, are the lessexpensive of any given generation.
So for example, the seven A will be.
Less expensive than the seven.
Here's a Google Pixel,seven a unlocked $164.
That's amazing.
I mean, I might just wanna pick upone of those just to have an extra
(21:38):
maybe for traveling or for messingaround giving it to friends or family.
Um, but like I said, make sure it'sunlocked and you can put whatever
operating system on it you want.
Now to when you, when you do buy that
(22:01):
and you are ready to put Graphene OS ontoit, their website has a install wizard and
it's gonna walk you through its web-based.
So again, you're doing it in the browserand you'll go through the instructions.
Um, you don't have to.
Type any commands.
(22:23):
It's just gonna beclicking this button here.
Unlock the boot load.
So you're gonna plug it in your computer.
You're gonna click unlock boot loader,download flash, and then lock again.
Remember that locking it afterwardsis very important the Pixel eight and
later have seven years of support fromGrapheneOS, so you don't have to worry
about your phone getting out of date.
(22:44):
I mean, that's really good.
I think that's on par withGoogle, possibly even better for
some of those older generations.
Now, once you have GrapheneOS installed,you're going to need to get apps, all the
(23:06):
apps you use in your daily workflow, and Ihighly recommend listening to our previous
episode on alternative app stores.
You can use Google Play just thesame way that you do on Google's
Android, but you are gonna be givingup some privacy because it you have
(23:28):
to sign into your Google account.
Which means all of the apps thatyou download and install are gonna
be correlated with your account.
You are, even if you use Google Play.
However, you are getting a lotof privacy on GrapheneOS because
they run Google Play Services in asandbox, uh, uh, application sandbox.
(23:51):
And what that means is normally onGoogle's Android, Google Play Services
has, uh, highly elevated privileges.
And that's just security cybersecurityspeak for, it has God mode basically.
And it can, and it can and does monitoreverything that goes on on the phone.
(24:11):
So you and the, you as the user donot have the ability to disable it.
So Google plays services, it, itcan see every app that's installed.
It monitors the usage of every app.
It monitors and tracks yourlocation and, um, other.
Uh, Teleme, uh, telemetry thatit, it reports back to Google.
(24:35):
So just by using Graphene OS andeven with Google Play Services in its
sandbox environment, meaning it's notallowed to escape and, uh, have elevated
privileges like su super user privileges,that alone has given you a good level
of protection, but the less you can.
Use Google the better.
(24:55):
So if you reduce your reliance on Googleby replacing your various Google apps
with alternatives, then you're just gonnabe incrementally improving your privacy.
And this is a great approach because youdon't have to go all or nothing, right?
So I. If you were to just replaceyour, your Google, Android with
GrapheneOS and then install all theapps that you're still using and
(25:19):
continue using it in that way, you're,you are gaining some privacy there.
But then what you can do is over time,as you can, you slowly replace and
find alternatives for your Google apps.
You will then be incrementallyimproving your sovereignty.
As you go forward and making continualprogress and not having to worry about
(25:39):
jumping completely from one set ofapps to a complete replacement stack.
So I really advocate for thatincremental approach because it's a
lot more realistic to do for everybody.
Um, when I completely de-Googled mytech stack, it took me over a year
because, you know, like most people,I'm busy and I've got my apps that
(26:04):
I'm using on a regular basis, andI'm used to them and I'm logged in.
So don't be too hard on yourself.
Give yourself small, attainable goalsin terms of taking back more self
sovereignty in your computing life,and they are absolutely achievable.
(26:27):
By using Google Play Services Sandbox,you are able to use 99% of apps out
there that would work on Google, Android.
Um, so I've successfully am able to usethings on GrapheneOS, such as banking
apps and, um, those are typically the, themost annoying to use without Google, but.
(26:51):
They, they work for the most part.
I would say there are occasionally appsthat are gonna give you some trouble.
Um, I've not had a problem with CashApp, but I reported, but I've heard
reports from somebody I know that wasusing Android or GrapheneOS and they
couldn't get Cash App working properly.
For some reason the app was.
(27:13):
Having trouble with the os.
Um, another thing that I know is that eventhough Android Auto works, um, Google Pay
in, in other words, if you use your phoneas tap to pay, that's probably not gonna
work unless you have a specific bankingapp that allows that without Google.
But that's just something to be aware of.
(27:35):
But other than that, everythingwould work just as you expect.
The last thing I'll say before we wrapup on this topic today is that if you
are currently using a, maybe a Samsungwith, with Google Android on it, or
maybe are using an iPhone with iOS on it.
(27:59):
Consider taking the approach of buyinga pixel, a used pixel, and loading
GrapheneOS onto it, and then keepingyour main phone and then as your daily
communication device as you alreadydo, and then using your GrapheneOS
phone, um, on the side when you havetime, putting some apps on there.
(28:20):
See if you can mirrorsome of your workflow and.
And try to incorporate it intoyour day-to-day activities.
And I think you'll seethat it is very usable.
It's come a long way sincein the last few years.
Uh, it, I know originally there werea lot of limitations and it was very
(28:40):
inconvenient to use, but these daysI think it's perfectly doable for
90% of the population out there thatis using a smartphone and relies
on it for their day-to-day work.
It is time for listener feedback and areminder that if you want to message us,
you can do so in a couple different ways.
(29:00):
You can go to Fountain fm, searchfor the A TL Bitlab podcast and
you can boost into the show.
You can send a message and attach SATs toit, and we will read that on the show and,
uh, respond to your feedback and take youradvice in terms of what you want to hear.
We also have an email address that youcan write into, and that email is s o
(29:25):
v e r e i g n at atl bit lab dot com.
That's s o v e r e i g nat atl bit lab dot com.
And we have a listenerwho wrote in Miles asks.
About self-hosted backups and he's,he wants to know if you are hosting
(29:49):
your own files on your own server.
For example, if you have a home serverrunning next cloud and you're storing
your pictures, your videos, andyour documents on your home server.
What happens if your house burnsdown or floods, or the server
gets destroyed for some reason,or there's some other disaster?
(30:10):
And that is a great question.
I'm going to give a quick answerhere and I will tease the next topic
that we're gonna be talking about.
And the answer to that is you wantto have backups, of course you
need to have a backup at a. Anotherlocation, so an offsite backup.
And we're gonna talk about how todo that in an encrypted way so that
(30:34):
wherever you are storing it, um,that data is secure and private.
And that the people who are storing that,whether it's a third party or someone,
you know, that that is completely,um, encrypted in such a way that.
Only you are able to decrypt it, and ifyou ever had a problem with your server
(30:56):
or your drive was destroyed for whateverreason, you can then once you get up and
running with, with a new server, you wouldbe able to pull that data in from your
offsite backup, decrypt it, and restoreeverything and sleep easy at night.
So we'll talk about thatmore in a future show.
(31:16):
Please let us know whatyou think of that topic.
If you have questions on it,if you have comments, have
you self-hosted anything yet?
Have you had backups?
Have you had trouble with backups?
Boost in and let us know.
Or you can send an email as well.
And we are working ongetting a chat going.
It's probably gonna be a matrix chat,so keep your ears peeled for that.
(31:39):
We'll talk about it more as we havemore information to share with you.
All right everybody.
Thanks a lot for listeningand we'll see you next time.
Stephen DeLorme (31:48):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you want to learn more aboutanything that we discussed, you can
look for links in the show notesthat should be in your podcast
player, or you can go to atlbitlab.
com slash podcast.
On a final note, if you foundthis information useful and you
want to help support us, you canalways send us a tip in Bitcoin.
(32:09):
Your support really helps us so that wecan keep bringing you content like this.
All right.
Catch you later.
Normally on Google's Android, Google Play Services
has highly elevated privileges.
And that's just cybersecurity speakfor, it has God Mode basically.
And it can and does monitoreverything that goes on on the phone.
You as the user do not havethe ability to disable it.
(00:20):
So Google Plays services, it, itcan see every app that's installed.
It monitors the usage of every app.
It monitors and tracks yourlocation and other telemetry
that it reports back to Google.
Welcome to the Sovereign ComputingShow, presented by ATL BitLab.
I'm Jordan Bravo, and this is apodcast where we teach you how to
(00:42):
take back control of your devices.
Sovereign Computing means you own yourtechnology, not the other way around.
Stephen DeLorme (00:52):
This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab.
ATL BitLab is Atlanta'sfreedom tech hacker space.
We have co working desks,conference rooms, event space,
maker tools, and tons of coffee.
There is a very activecommunity here in the lab.
Every Wednesday night isBitcoin night here in Atlanta.
We also have meetups for cyber security,artificial intelligence, decentralized
(01:12):
identity, product design, and more.
We offer day passes and nomad passesfor people who need to use the lab only
occasionally, as well as membershipsfor people who plan to use the lab
more regularly, such as myself.
One of the best things abouthaving a BitLab membership isn't
the amenities, it's the people.
Surrounding yourself with acommunity helps you learn faster
and helps you build better.
(01:34):
Your creativity becomes amplifiedwhen you work in this space,
that's what I think at least.
If you're interested in becominga member or supporting this space,
please visit us at atlbitlab.
com.
That's A T L B I T L A B dot com.
Alright, on to our show.
Jordan Bravo (01:55):
Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show.
I'm Jordan Bravo.
And today I have somethinga little different for you.
This is a solo episode.
Stephen will not be joining us.
Um, but we do have a greattopic that we're gonna get into.
But first I would like toremind everybody that you can.
Boost into the show and let usknow what you'd like to hear or
(02:18):
what you think about the topics.
You can do that by using theFountain app on Android or iOS, which
allows you to download the show.
And also to boost in with your boostograms, attach some SATs to a message
and we'll read 'em here on the show.
If you don't wanna do that, youcan also email the show at s o v e
(02:40):
r e i g n at atl bit lab dot com.
That's sovereign, s o v e r ei g n at atl bit lab dot com.
Today we're gonna talk about how dowe solve the problem of, we want to be
(03:01):
self-sovereign in our computing, but wewant to use a mobile computing device.
In other words, a smartphone that isn'tsurveilled and censored and controlled.
And constrained.
And make no mistake about it, asmartphone is a computing device just
like our desktop and laptop computers.
(03:24):
It has an operating system andapplications, and it's subject to most of
the same rules, constraints, trade-offs,and benefits as a larger computing device.
But there are someadditional considerations.
So when you go and you buy a laptopor a desktop computer, you have a lot
(03:50):
of choices and you've actually got.
The three major operating systems outthere are Windows, Mac, OS, and Linux.
And in another episode we'll getinto, we'll do a deep dive on
the desktop operating systems.
Spoiler alert, Linux is gonna be thefavorite one that's gonna be talked
(04:13):
about here, and we'll go into moredetail on that in that future episode.
But today we're gonna be talkingabout mobile operating systems.
So what are our, our options if wewant to use a modern smartphone mobile
computing device, but we don't wantto be surveilled and constrained
(04:34):
in all of those other things?
Well, let's look at the,at the options we have.
On the one hand, the iPhone.
The problem with the iPhone,as with most Apple devices, is
that it's extremely locked down.
The iPhone Boot ROM onlyallows iOS to be booted.
(04:57):
You can't put anotheroperating system on the iPhone.
You may have heard of something calledjailbreaking the iPhone, but jailbreaking
an iPhone only allows access to.
Uh, third party app stores andother additional options that
aren't normally available in iOS.
(05:17):
However, it doesn't allow youto put a completely different
operating system on it.
It's still iOS and jailbreaking.
An iPhone is not recommendedbecause even though it allows you
to put some additional software onthere, you lose the security model.
You break the security model of iOS.
You're no longer getting updatesfrom Apple and it's just, it's
(05:39):
not recommended to do that.
You will, you will make yourselfprobably less, definitely less
secure, and arguably you're notgaining any huge privacy advantages.
So, sorry to break it to you folkswho have iPhones as your daily
driver, but if you want to take fullsovereignty of your mobile computing.
(06:02):
And still have modernfeatures and modern software.
iPhones are just not an option.
And I say this to you assomebody who understands, I used
iPhones for a good amount of mycomputing, mobile computing life.
Um, I've used iOS, I've used Android,and um, iOS is a great experience in
(06:27):
many ways, but I. When it comes tofreedom, software freedom, they just,
it's, it's very constrained on iOS,so you don't have a lot of options.
Um, so we are going to move onto the next option, and the next
option is actually something youprobably don't see very often, and
(06:48):
that would be a Linux mobile device.
We're talking.
Not Android, which uses the Linux kernel,but actual Linux that would be able
to run similar apps to what you wouldhave on a desktop or laptop computer.
There are actually two phonesthat I want to bring up that
are potential Linux phones.
(07:09):
Um, the first one here is we're gonnatalk about is Pine Phone by Pine 64.
And for those of you watching thevideo, I've got this up on the screen.
And pine phone's been out for a few years.
It, uh, it runs a, I think it's an Ubuntuspecifically designed for mobile devices
(07:34):
and it seems to have decent hardware.
It's not the best in the world.
I have not personally used it, butfrom what I can tell and based on
what other people have reported it.
Still a little too early or, or theywere a little too early and they're
missing a lot of the features that youwould expect from a modern smartphone.
(07:59):
The next option is actually somethingthat's in progress or, or will be coming
out in the near future, and that is theMecha Comet Mecha, like M-E-C-H-A and.
Comet is the model and they've, they havea, a Kickstarter that they are gathering
(08:20):
funds for and they're going to ship this.
I. Don't remember if it's gonna beshipped in 2025 or 2026, but in any case,
it's not ready for public use for full.
Like they're not in production.
Um, I believe you.
They've shown up at conferences, sothey actually do have some hardware.
(08:43):
It's not vaporware.
At least it doesn't seem like it.
And I'm gonna be keeping an eye on thisas, as a potential mobile computing
device and see if, um, if I can getmy hands on one, I'm gonna try it out.
I'll, uh, I'll carry it around inparallel with my everyday device
and see if it could replace it.
So I, I've got some hopes for that.
(09:04):
But in the meantime, the bottom linewhen it comes to Linux phones is I
just don't think they're ready for.
Mainstream use, they might be okay forhobbyists and people who are really into
this kind of thing, but, uh, I'm notgonna recommend it to everybody, not
until I've tried it myself at least.
So if we, if we can't use iOS and wecan't use Linux, that leaves us with
(09:31):
the next major option, which is Android.
Now Android is actually known as theopen Android open source project.
And
the Android open source project, despitebeing developed primarily by Google,
(09:55):
is actually a completely open sourceproject, as the name suggests, that does
not have any Google specific code in it.
That's right.
People might assume that becauseGoogle is the major developing source
behind it, that it would be baked in.
But actually Android itself is freefrom Google's shenanigans and code,
(10:20):
and so the Android open source project,what Google does is it takes that base
code base and then they add in theirproprietary Google stuff, including.
The Google Play Store and allof the tracking and surveillance
technology that's built into that.
And so there have been some otherprojects, some other developers and
(10:44):
organizations that have actually takenthe Android open source project, started
with that baseline operating systemthat's free of Google and anything
else, um, proprietary and they have.
Built on top of it and created completelyGoogle free Android operating systems.
The first one that we're gonnatalk about today is Calyx.
(11:07):
Os.
Calyx is a Android version that is freeof spyware and tracking and Google, and
it's made by the Calyx Foundation andthey're very much focused on privacy.
And they have a good reputation in thespace they, for using, when you use
(11:31):
Calyx on an Android device, that is it.
It's de-Googled.
And so the first thing that a lot of userswanna know is, can I use the same apps
And the way that Calyx.
First of all, many apps work with zeroreliance on Google, but there are some
(11:54):
that do have a, uh, reliance on theGoogle proprietary code that's built
into, um, Google's version of Android.
And so Calyx gets around thisby providing something called
Micro G and it sort of simulates.
(12:14):
Google's services so that various appsthat require it to run can still run.
Uh, I'm not gonna speaktoo much more about Calyx.
I just want to put it out there thatit's a good option and I think it's
healthy that the privacy ecosystemhas more than one project that's
(12:35):
working on, uh, Google free Android.
But the next projectwe're gonna talk about is.
What I think is the best way to go abouthaving a free and de-Googled android
operating system and that's Graphene os.
Now, graphene OS is an open sourceAndroid operating system project
(13:02):
and they are highly focusedon, on privacy and security.
They're a nonprofit and they.
They, in fact, they're so focused onsecurity, they have such a good reputation
for improving the security of Android thatmany of their updates and improvements to
(13:22):
the operating system have been upstreamedand they are used by Google as well.
So if, uh, you, you can use that as kindof an indication that they know what
they're doing when it comes to security.
Graphene OS is only supportedon the Google Pixel.
Now that might sound a little surprisingbecause the, you have a Google piece
(13:46):
of hardware and yet it's the onlyphone that they support if for de
Googling and running a Google free.
Android operating system, and there'ssome very specific reasons for why
they only support the Google Pixel,and that is the Google Pixel's.
Security hardware is unmatched inthe rest of the Android phone space.
(14:12):
They really do rival the iPhonein terms of the security and
quality of the hardware and.
There's an additional consideration, whichis that the Google Pixel is the only phone
that will allow the user to both unlockthe boot loader, put on another operating
(14:33):
system, and then relock the boot loader.
And what that means is if you have alocked boot loader and somebody has
physical access to your phone, theycan't load another operating system
on there or do anything malicious.
Um, I. They can't tamper withthe operating system or load
any kind of malware on there.
(14:54):
Whereas all the other phones that youwould buy that are Android compatible,
for example, Samsung, Motorola.
Et cetera.
You can unlock the boot loaderon some of them and load another
operating system onto there.
But then you can't relock the boot loader.
So your phone would then be susceptibleto what's referred to as an evil made
(15:17):
attack, where if your phone is left outand somebody has physical access to it,
they can then load malware on there andyou would have no idea that they had done
so if they're a sophisticated attacker.
So in short, the.
Pixel by Google, even though itironically comes from Google, which
(15:37):
is a company that we are trying to getaway from and is not present with any
of their software on GrapheneOS it, theymake the best hardware that's vendor
neutral and therefore is perfect forthese de Google and operating systems.
So where can you get a good pixel?
(15:59):
Most people know that you have yourcellular phone provider, and you
might be renting your phone from them,where you're paying a monthly fee
for your subscription, for your phonesubscription, and part of that price
baked in is the cost of your phone.
But this is actually a terrible wayto buy your phone, first of all.
(16:22):
You are gonna be buying a, you're gonna behaving a locked a, a carrier locked phone,
and which means you don't have the freedomto change your provider if you wanted to.
So when you are gonna buy a phone, buy itfrom places other than your carrier and
make sure that it is factory unlocked.
(16:43):
The other thing you wanna do is.
Buy it in a much moreprivate manner if possible.
So if you can buy it in person,maybe it's at a place like Best
Buy with Cash, that's great.
Or maybe you want to go a method and buya used one because you're gonna be wiping
the operating system from it anyway.
(17:03):
It's not a big deal.
You're gonna be loading anew operating system onto it.
So, uh, before we, we go into where youcould buy a phone to load Graphene os
onto, I wanna point out that there aresome companies now that are catering
to people who want Graphene OS orthese other privacy focused oss on.
(17:25):
Android phones.
Um, I'm gonna go over some ofthem right now, but I am not
endorsing or recommending these.
You'll see it why in a second.
But I think the best way to goabout it's to just buy one that
has regular Google, Android onit, and then put GrapheneOS on it.
Uh, do it yourself, andit's actually really easy.
(17:47):
You don't need to downloadany extra software.
If you have a web browser, whichevery computer does, it's a very.
Click, easy click install process.
And um, yeah, that's, I Ithink it's anybody listening to
this is capable of doing that.
There's no command line required.
No magical softwaredeveloper incantations.
(18:08):
This is all very graphical and you justfollow a simple set of instructions.
So there's a place called, there's asite called liberate your tech.com, and
they sell graph OS preloaded onto pixels.
I. But you're gonna see here.
The other reason why I don't recommendthat you go with one of these sites
is that they charge a huge premium.
(18:31):
So a pixel.
Let's take a look at some of these prices.
A pixel eight with 128 gigabytes of.
Storage.
They're selling it for 8 99,$900 and that's a huge premium.
Let's look at another site, private phoneshop.com, and they are selling a Pixel
(18:56):
eight Pro with Calyx OS or Lineage os.
That's another one we haven'ttalked about, but it's
another de Googled Android.
Uh, this is $750, andfinally there's another.
A company called Above Phone,and here they're advertising
a Pixel nine for $1,100.
(19:18):
And that comes with GoogleIbel, uh, excuse me, that
comes with graphene, I believe.
Lemme take a look at whatthey are advertising here,
but in any case.
(19:40):
I think anybody listening is perfectlycapable of buying a phone with Google
Android on it, the typical outta the boxone, and then adding, uh, grapho if to it.
If you look here on the site,swapa.com, this is a site that sells
for those of you don't know, theysell used and refurbished devices.
(20:03):
And if you look here underunlocked Google phones.
The comparable Pixel nine unlocked, whichwe just saw over here on above phone.com.
For $1,100, you can buy aused Pixel nine for $398.
(20:25):
So that's, that's a great deal.
I don't think that's, uh, spendingtoo much just to have, I mean,
to have a top of the line.
Phone that's completely unlockedand you can load whatever you
want onto it, and it's gonna becompletely private and self-sovereign.
You could even drop backa couple of generations.
(20:45):
The, the Pixel nine is thecurrent generation, uh, the Pixel
10 will be released later thisyear in probably August of 2025.
But even if you were to go withthe Pixel eight, let's say.
I mean, here's a Google Pixeleight for $293 on, uh, on Swapa.
(21:12):
And that's awesome.
That's a great deal.
Uh, you could even goback another generation.
The A models are the, are the lessexpensive of any given generation.
So for example, the seven A will be.
Less expensive than the seven.
Here's a Google Pixel,seven a unlocked $164.
That's amazing.
I mean, I might just wanna pick upone of those just to have an extra
(21:38):
maybe for traveling or for messingaround giving it to friends or family.
Um, but like I said, make sure it'sunlocked and you can put whatever
operating system on it you want.
Now to when you, when you do buy that
(22:01):
and you are ready to put Graphene OS ontoit, their website has a install wizard and
it's gonna walk you through its web-based.
So again, you're doing it in the browserand you'll go through the instructions.
Um, you don't have to.
Type any commands.
(22:23):
It's just gonna beclicking this button here.
Unlock the boot load.
So you're gonna plug it in your computer.
You're gonna click unlock boot loader,download flash, and then lock again.
Remember that locking it afterwardsis very important the Pixel eight and
later have seven years of support fromGrapheneOS, so you don't have to worry
about your phone getting out of date.
(22:44):
I mean, that's really good.
I think that's on par withGoogle, possibly even better for
some of those older generations.
Now, once you have GrapheneOS installed,you're going to need to get apps, all the
(23:06):
apps you use in your daily workflow, and Ihighly recommend listening to our previous
episode on alternative app stores.
You can use Google Play just thesame way that you do on Google's
Android, but you are gonna be givingup some privacy because it you have
(23:28):
to sign into your Google account.
Which means all of the apps thatyou download and install are gonna
be correlated with your account.
You are, even if you use Google Play.
However, you are getting a lotof privacy on GrapheneOS because
they run Google Play Services in asandbox, uh, uh, application sandbox.
(23:51):
And what that means is normally onGoogle's Android, Google Play Services
has, uh, highly elevated privileges.
And that's just security cybersecurityspeak for, it has God mode basically.
And it can, and it can and does monitoreverything that goes on on the phone.
(24:11):
So you and the, you as the user donot have the ability to disable it.
So Google plays services, it, itcan see every app that's installed.
It monitors the usage of every app.
It monitors and tracks yourlocation and, um, other.
Uh, Teleme, uh, telemetry thatit, it reports back to Google.
(24:35):
So just by using Graphene OS andeven with Google Play Services in its
sandbox environment, meaning it's notallowed to escape and, uh, have elevated
privileges like su super user privileges,that alone has given you a good level
of protection, but the less you can.
Use Google the better.
(24:55):
So if you reduce your reliance on Googleby replacing your various Google apps
with alternatives, then you're just gonnabe incrementally improving your privacy.
And this is a great approach because youdon't have to go all or nothing, right?
So I. If you were to just replaceyour, your Google, Android with
GrapheneOS and then install all theapps that you're still using and
(25:19):
continue using it in that way, you're,you are gaining some privacy there.
But then what you can do is over time,as you can, you slowly replace and
find alternatives for your Google apps.
You will then be incrementallyimproving your sovereignty.
As you go forward and making continualprogress and not having to worry about
(25:39):
jumping completely from one set ofapps to a complete replacement stack.
So I really advocate for thatincremental approach because it's a
lot more realistic to do for everybody.
Um, when I completely de-Googled mytech stack, it took me over a year
because, you know, like most people,I'm busy and I've got my apps that
(26:04):
I'm using on a regular basis, andI'm used to them and I'm logged in.
So don't be too hard on yourself.
Give yourself small, attainable goalsin terms of taking back more self
sovereignty in your computing life,and they are absolutely achievable.
(26:27):
By using Google Play Services Sandbox,you are able to use 99% of apps out
there that would work on Google, Android.
Um, so I've successfully am able to usethings on GrapheneOS, such as banking
apps and, um, those are typically the, themost annoying to use without Google, but.
(26:51):
They, they work for the most part.
I would say there are occasionally appsthat are gonna give you some trouble.
Um, I've not had a problem with CashApp, but I reported, but I've heard
reports from somebody I know that wasusing Android or GrapheneOS and they
couldn't get Cash App working properly.
For some reason the app was.
(27:13):
Having trouble with the os.
Um, another thing that I know is that eventhough Android Auto works, um, Google Pay
in, in other words, if you use your phoneas tap to pay, that's probably not gonna
work unless you have a specific bankingapp that allows that without Google.
But that's just something to be aware of.
(27:35):
But other than that, everythingwould work just as you expect.
The last thing I'll say before we wrapup on this topic today is that if you
are currently using a, maybe a Samsungwith, with Google Android on it, or
maybe are using an iPhone with iOS on it.
(27:59):
Consider taking the approach of buyinga pixel, a used pixel, and loading
GrapheneOS onto it, and then keepingyour main phone and then as your daily
communication device as you alreadydo, and then using your GrapheneOS
phone, um, on the side when you havetime, putting some apps on there.
(28:20):
See if you can mirrorsome of your workflow and.
And try to incorporate it intoyour day-to-day activities.
And I think you'll seethat it is very usable.
It's come a long way sincein the last few years.
Uh, it, I know originally there werea lot of limitations and it was very
(28:40):
inconvenient to use, but these daysI think it's perfectly doable for
90% of the population out there thatis using a smartphone and relies
on it for their day-to-day work.
It is time for listener feedback and areminder that if you want to message us,
you can do so in a couple different ways.
(29:00):
You can go to Fountain fm, searchfor the A TL Bitlab podcast and
you can boost into the show.
You can send a message and attach SATs toit, and we will read that on the show and,
uh, respond to your feedback and take youradvice in terms of what you want to hear.
We also have an email address that youcan write into, and that email is s o
(29:25):
v e r e i g n at atl bit lab dot com.
That's s o v e r e i g nat atl bit lab dot com.
And we have a listenerwho wrote in Miles asks.
About self-hosted backups and he's,he wants to know if you are hosting
(29:49):
your own files on your own server.
For example, if you have a home serverrunning next cloud and you're storing
your pictures, your videos, andyour documents on your home server.
What happens if your house burnsdown or floods, or the server
gets destroyed for some reason,or there's some other disaster?
(30:10):
And that is a great question.
I'm going to give a quick answerhere and I will tease the next topic
that we're gonna be talking about.
And the answer to that is you wantto have backups, of course you
need to have a backup at a. Anotherlocation, so an offsite backup.
And we're gonna talk about how todo that in an encrypted way so that
(30:34):
wherever you are storing it, um,that data is secure and private.
And that the people who are storing that,whether it's a third party or someone,
you know, that that is completely,um, encrypted in such a way that.
Only you are able to decrypt it, and ifyou ever had a problem with your server
(30:56):
or your drive was destroyed for whateverreason, you can then once you get up and
running with, with a new server, you wouldbe able to pull that data in from your
offsite backup, decrypt it, and restoreeverything and sleep easy at night.
So we'll talk about thatmore in a future show.
(31:16):
Please let us know whatyou think of that topic.
If you have questions on it,if you have comments, have
you self-hosted anything yet?
Have you had backups?
Have you had trouble with backups?
Boost in and let us know.
Or you can send an email as well.
And we are working ongetting a chat going.
It's probably gonna be a matrix chat,so keep your ears peeled for that.
(31:39):
We'll talk about it more as we havemore information to share with you.
All right everybody.
Thanks a lot for listeningand we'll see you next time.
Stephen DeLorme (31:48):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you want to learn more aboutanything that we discussed, you can
look for links in the show notesthat should be in your podcast
player, or you can go to atlbitlab.
com slash podcast.
On a final note, if you foundthis information useful and you
want to help support us, you canalways send us a tip in Bitcoin.
(32:09):
Your support really helps us so that wecan keep bringing you content like this.
All right.
Catch you later.
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