May 1, 2025 • 46 mins
Roxanne Derhodge engages with Michelle Gladieux on the significance of courage in communication and personal growth. Michelle shares her experiences in coaching high-ranking professionals and the challenges faced in this arena. They delve into leadership self-awareness, Roxanne's "Return on Relationship" concept, and the four hidden communication challenges. The discussion touches on themes from Roxanne's books and personal therapy insights. They explore coaching younger generations, balancing identities, and Michelle's approach to conflict resolution. The episode highlights strategies for managing team conflict and the importance of self-alignment in leadership, presenting conflict as an opportunity for growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, aplace where we have conscious conversations
about things that really matter in our lives.
And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
(00:40):
Hi, everyone.
It's Roxanne Durhodge.
Thanks for tuning in again this week toAuthentic Living with Roxanne.
I just wanna let you know I'm amazed how manyof you listened, and I just want you to
subscribe because we can just let you know whenthese cool people like Michelle Gladio's
popping in to visit us.
So go to iTunes, give her a review, show hersome love so that we can have some more
(01:03):
interesting guests like her on.
So, Michelle, thanks for being here.
And I'm let me tell you a little bit aboutMichelle.
And Michelle and I have a lot, we werechitchatting, and we I thought, oh, we should
hit record because we're having so much fun offcamera.
Michelle,
who the flower is gladiola, but I'll take that.
She's called the human potential whisperer,which I love.
(01:25):
And her mission is to grow people as leadersand communicators every day.
She's the author of award winning bookCommunicate with Taking Risks to Overcome the
Four Hidden Challenges.
And she's the president of her company, GladioConsulting.
She's worked in Anubas Corporate Environments,HR Training Director in things from cold
(01:47):
storage to robotics, construction, maledominated kind of environment.
And she's a keynote speaker.
And she's designed over a thousand originalseminars.
That's amazing.
And her positive effect on those who advises isevident after she just has one interaction.
I can tell you, we just met and that is sotrue.
(02:08):
Michelle, tell us what got you talking aboutcourage?
Like, you started a path, it sounds like.
Did you go to a business school?
What did you do?
Sure.
I went to Purdue University in West Lafayette,and I studied psychology, specifically
organizational and industrial psychology,because I knew that I wanted to do something
(02:33):
along the lines of what you've done with yourlife, Roxanne, but I wasn't quite sure about
clinical psych.
I felt more called to how humans behave in theworkplace and then over now a long career,
about twenty five years as an instructionaldesigner, educator, executive coach, We
deliver, my team and I are a team of eightbased out of Fort Wayne, Indiana, we deliver
(02:56):
very custom teaching for folks and we meet themwhere they are and we really need to earn their
trust and we do earn their trust and so we godown these curvy roads that people are on as
communicators with them whether it's a largegroup or one on one coaching and in all of the
obstacles that I've seen that hold people backfrom more joy and more respect, getting more
(03:21):
respect as communicators and throughout theircareers, not to mention in their personal
lives, it seems to come down to can we be braveenough to learn about our strengths and
weaknesses as you well know and then work onthe weaker points to help them become
strengths.
It's very possible to do so, and that, ofcourse, requires courage and a good teacher or
(03:46):
teachers.
Life is a teacher, and all those we meet canteach us, or we can work one on one with a
coach to get to where you are closer to yourpotential, to get to where you're meant to be
in this life, which I firmly believe is as amessage sender and receiver, we can change the
world, each of us in our very unique ways.
So courage became a theme of my book.
(04:09):
It's called Communicate with Courage, TakingRisks to Overcome the Four Hidden Challenges
because I tried to put my very best advice intoa short book and keep it to the point and tell
personal real life stories about myself andreal life people.
And wouldn't you know the theme that keptemerging really was gain skill and gain
(04:29):
courage.
Build it like a muscle.
Gain skill and gain courage.
Now the companies that hire you to do coaching,I'm gonna say they are companies that are aware
of the impact of increasing the skills of thepeople in the environment.
Sometimes when you go in, do you find thatpeople are still shy they shy away from
(04:52):
coaching for fear that there's repercussions?
If someone owns a consulting company orwhatever you're doing different sectors, I'm
gonna assume.
How open are employees to getting coached ifthe company buys coaching?
It's a great question, and there's always somehesitance.
I would be hesitating if you said,congratulations Michelle we've hired an
(05:15):
executive coach for you and you're going totake a personality assessment and get a 14 page
results report read all about yourself and thecoach will be reading.
So you're right I understand that there aresome people who are hesitant, but I think that
we've done a really good job of meeting thathesitancy by respecting it.
(05:36):
I will provide my personality report first toyou, for example, if you're about to take the
survey online and that way you can see like howcool is this?
Look at it shows how extroverted introverted Iam, what my style is, how I make decisions, how
I handle conflict.
So we try to give as much as we ask others togive, and a lot of my teaching and coaching
(05:59):
does involve references to personal current andpast personal stories.
So it's an interesting fine line between verygood friend and client, and we try to be a very
good friend to our clients while keepingprofessional boundaries where they should be so
that we can also deliver difficult to receivefeedback sometimes, but always with love and
(06:22):
with respect for others' self esteem becauseit's a delicate balance and we've all had
bosses or teachers or coaches or guides whoweren't really ethical or they weren't very
skilled at giving feedback.
So people do come in a little bit hesitantsometimes, yes, but they always find that it's
worth it and that we approach the work withhumor and a sense of no one being better or
(06:49):
more valuable than any other human at the soullevel.
So you show them your assessment?
Absolutely.
Wow.
What vulnerability is that, right?
Because to be able to do that, to be able toshare, especially if somebody's got a bit of
trepidation, I don't know what's going tohappen here.
What a nice way to open the door for thembecause you're kind of saying, I've done it.
(07:13):
I'm not so good at over there.
I'm actually pretty good over here, in themiddle over here.
Because then they kind of go, oh, it's notsomething that's being done to me.
It becomes almost like an invisiblecollaborative relationship that you're starting
to get into.
So true, especially the conflict managementbreakdown that shows the five ways that humans
(07:34):
can handle disagreement and then what theclient's preference is and how often they use
each style and my competing score has been waytoo high for too long but I have wrangled it
I've wrangled it down so that it's not thewhole pie and there are other slices of the pie
and I can do things like accommodate compromiseavoid etc collaborate but I'll show them that
(07:58):
right away sometimes and say and look at yours,look at how balanced you are with how you
handle conflict, what coaching do you have forme because I am overly competitive and that's
interesting also to be able to receiveinstruction from our clients has made me better
at what I do and has made our team better forsure.
(08:18):
Based on the sector that you're serving, andI'm going to assume it, are you in lots of
different sectors with some of the contractsyou're dealing with?
Got it.
Yep.
What sector might be a bit more closed offcompared to other I could name some.
Just asking
to hear.
Yeah.
Bet you could.
I have to be careful.
Right?
No.
Don't say anything if it's one company that youhappen to have.
(08:42):
I wouldn't.
We try to only share actual names when we havecompliments to give, whether it's we're talking
about one human or And
then, commit, commit, then deliver.
Right?
Absolutely.
Folks who are used to being the highest poweredperson in the room through positional power or
personal power, such as doctors Okay.
(09:04):
Professors, commanders in the military, highranking political officials, and not always.
Sometimes they can be the most excited and themost open about how they might receive four or
five goals.
The way I I do it, the meeting is up to twohours once a month, and then I spend a few days
(09:26):
creating a very tight, succinct, doable goalplan that has four or five baby steps for the
client to take before we meet again in thirtydays.
And many of these folks that are high rankingare very interested in getting better.
It really has a lot to do with self esteem,upbringing, and personality, I think, but I can
(09:47):
think of some challenges where we really had toprove our worth, right, and demonstrate that
even if you are high powered and highlysuccessful, there's sometimes in that case is
even more to learn because how will you getpeople to feel at ease and give you real deal
feedback, for example, if there's somedifference in political power or positional
(10:13):
power?
In my book that I wrote on return it's ROIreturn on relationship.
Yes.
So we talk and I look basically, it's writtento the leader to look at his or her kind of
spectrum in five areas.
Right?
Communication, connection, decision making,balance processing, and recognition.
(10:40):
Like, so if I don't know myself in those areas,it's kind of hard to impart it.
Let's say, Michelle, and I know we wouldn't bevery different, I could just tell by talking to
you.
But if we're that different from someone elseand we're not recognizing that we're not able
to blend because maybe you're the left brainerthat's so microscopic that you're able to see
(11:07):
patterns and I'm a big picture kind of person.
We're just gonna sometimes be diametricallyopposed in how we kind of look to say goals or
communication.
So the leader kind of looks at his or herstyle, especially when they're under stress.
And how do they come across and what could theylearn so that they can enhance their capacity
(11:27):
to connect?
So it's interesting that you're seeing withsome of these senior leaders, it's not just
about the position, but it's so many otherdifferent elements that might impact them.
Well said, and Roxanne, I feel like you'respeaking directly to me and coaching me as I
think about, I'm a driver expressive or DI ifit's a DISC person if that's that we're talking
(11:49):
about right?
Yes.
And how just how much work it has been for meto realize the other 8,000,000,000 people on
the planet have very different mixes ofpersonality and upbringing strengths, life.
I think I went for a long period in my lifebelieving everyone experienced life the way I
do, and it was not beneficial especially innegotiation and conflict scenarios, and what is
(12:14):
that?
But personal relationships are all that.
Right?
And how hard it is, as you say, to blend, but Ilove a challenge.
And I do think about those styles I have lessof, like amiability and analytical style.
And I I'll sometimes picture a person that Iknow and respect who has that style that I wish
(12:35):
I had going into the situation, and I willthink about acting as if, and I know you've
been a therapist for many years.
I don't know if that's something you everrecommend, but when you 're talking about
blending, you talking about acting as if andadding some style that's usually not ours
trying that on blending?
No, I think the overarching element isawareness.
Right?
So when I deal with senior leaders or whateverand they say I'm really good stress.
(13:00):
I'm more succinct.
And, you know, I'd be like, oh, okay.
If their analysis of themself is incongruentwith their teams, there's a disconnect.
So, like, when you're coaching, okay.
Well, if you're just giving yourself an eightin all these areas, but everybody's giving you
a one or two, does that disparity exist for areason?
Because they're too sensitive, Roxanne.
(13:22):
And I'm like, okay.
We all have blind spots.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Mine is microscopic, analytical, wanting tomake everybody happy and try to be
collaborative.
And sometimes people don't wanna do that.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
So I in certain areas.
So I then I'll say to them, okay.
So you think you're pretty good with how do youcommunicate when you're stressed.
I would like you to go home and speak to youryoungest child.
(13:44):
And what if and they'll say, what am I asking?
I said, I want you to ask your youngest childthe last time you were really stressed how they
would describe you.
Oh, boy.
And then they go, I'm different at work thanhome.
I said, are you?
Right, and then what happens is, I said, Don'tstart with the oldest.
The oldest is gonna give you what you needbecause they're thinking, What do I have to say
(14:06):
to kind of get out of this?
Then the middle one might be more in the middleand the younger one's just gonna give it to you
full on, boat bearings.
I know you grew up with six children in yourfamily, right?
Yes, yes.
I'm the middle child, so guess what?
I'm the child.
I'm like the plates at the circus that try tokeep everything spinning and make sure
everybody's okay, right?
You are a highly skilled communicator and I'mjust so I've been listening to the podcast
(14:31):
congratulations on the three twenty episodesthat's a big deal.
Thank you.
What a volunteerism thing to do to help educateall of us.
Well, I love meeting fantastic people.
And I listen to a lot of podcasts myself, butwhat happens is when I meet you, I learn all
(14:51):
the stuff that you've been doing in your world,and then I get exposure to all the something
new from a different angle.
So I and I think to me, it's and I'm anextrovert, obviously, and so I get energized by
doing these.
So I think I just like some people will say, Ohno, don't you think about yourself in camera?
I said, I used to, maybe for the first ten.
(15:14):
And then after that, I didn't think about itafter that.
So I think to your point, it's about knowingwhat your strengths are but how do you approach
it so you can enhance the capacity to deal withyour blind spots because it's no right or
wrong.
But in turn, once you get that, then you'reable to that force field around you becomes a
(15:35):
little bit more permeable because you'reunderstanding the personalities that you're
around to be able bring out the best out ofpotentially the people that you're dealing
with.
Right.
Which is the very definition of leadership, andwe don't need a fancy title to make big waves,
big positive waves in our organizationalculture.
In most places that we work, I would say peopleare underestimating their ability to make a
(15:59):
positive difference.
If they were to work on gaining some skill andcourage in communication, they could have a
more impactful positive impact in their workand in their personal lives as well.
Oh, absolutely.
So let's talk about the four blocks because I'dlove to hear more about that because it's I
often say it's I'm a great communicator, butnobody likes conflict.
(16:22):
We think of conflict as being a big blowout orsomething big.
You have to really think, well, it's maybe notthat bad.
I have to practice a little bit.
I still don't like it.
And I've done it for thirty years in my role.
So what are some of those blocks that stoppeople from having courage to communicate?
Sure.
There are four that I write about inCommunicate with Courage and they are hiding
(16:44):
from risk, defining to be right, rationalizingthe negative, and then settling for good
enough.
And I spend about 10 pages per chapter towardsthe middle of the book helping people see if
they have this hidden challenge and how and outof the subconscious or out of their peripheral
(17:05):
vision so that they can work on it.
There are a couple supporting chapters I wantto just mention around the hidden challenges
that include strength and vulnerability, whichis saying nobody's perfect and meaning it.
We also have risks, a chapter about risks notworth taking because we can't just claim I'm
(17:26):
being courageous and rush in to do damage.
The most important conversations to have andthen the last chapter is the complete risk
taking communicator.
But back to your question about the hiddenchallenges, would you like me to speak about
any of those hiding from risk, defining to beright, rationalizing the negative, or settling
for good enough?
(17:47):
Well, why don't you define them a bit?
Then I have another question for you based onwho you coach in reference to the most, well,
the one that seems to show up the most.
So let's just define them because I thinkthat's important.
Absolutely.
Hiding from risk is leaning on our masks thatwe wear, hiding, fear of exposing a weakness
(18:09):
that is either a real weakness or one that wemight just used to have dealt with and have
overcome, but we don't recognize it yet.
So we're feeling intimidated in some way, andwhat we do is we try to get past that.
I ask people to decide to engage more when itinvolves their values, and then in the book,
(18:30):
teach them how Okay.
The second challenge is defining to be right,and that is when we put just too much stock
into our own assumptions and our own lifeexperience and being so sure that it's just so
darn sure of our position or our opinion or theway that we think things should be handled that
(18:50):
people eventually begin to stop sharing diversethought that could
It's like the it's like the curtain goes down,and you know you've lost them.
Yeah.
You can't tell her anything.
You can't tell them anything.
He's not gonna listen, and you can develop areputation for that if you're not careful.
That can be remedied, and I have some coachingclients that are really working to come back
(19:15):
from that kind of reputation.
But that is the hidden challenge of being adefiner and defining to make sure that you are
right.
Yeah, yeah.
The third challenge is rationalizing thenegative.
This is a pet peeve of mine.
I've worked hard to try to maintain anoptimistic mindset.
I believe strongly that we can be realistic andoptimistic at the same time.
(19:39):
But if you are falling into rationalizing thenegative, you honestly might be a drag to work
with or to live with.
It it can literally be a drag on others'energy, and rationalizing the negative happens
when we choose a pessimistic mindset and weshield ourselves then from taking chances to do
the hard thing.
The best thing is sometimes the hardest thingin communication, like facing a conflict or
(20:04):
negotiating, maybe asking for help or sayingI'm sorry or I love you or I need this to
change.
So I ask people and teach them to put somecourage and faith and time into visualizing
possible positive outcomes and it's reallyworking well for me.
(20:25):
You mentioned I've created over a thousandoriginal seminars and been doing this for
twenty five years flying here and there drivinghere and there and every time I have an
opportunity to speak to keynote if it's aworkshop or a seminar I spend time alone
visualizing just how that's going to go, andnow for twenty five years that's pretty much
(20:48):
how it's gone.
Things like people are laughing, there arehands up, people are eager to answer questions
and share stories, and people leave with goals,very specific baby step goals to help them
become better team members, employers,communicators overall, presenters, writers, and
it's never a perfect presentation or a perfectevent.
(21:11):
But I do believe that if I were rationalizingthe negative and expecting things not to go
well, they would not have gone so well so far.
Nice.
Nice.
What is what do you see as being the onebiggest block?
Like
Should I mention the fourth just real quickly?
(21:32):
Yes, please.
Settling for and I probably talked too long onthat one because, as I mentioned, it's a pet
peeve of mine.
But settling for good enough is just what itsounds like, really.
It's striving, striving, not striving, it'sjust accepting instead of striving towards a
more viable, helpful, successful outcome.
So it's stopping it good enough instead ofstriving toward having interactions that can
(21:55):
slowly but surely change the world, change thecompany, change our families and change
ourselves.
Sometimes knowing when to call it and say, Ithink we've resolved it enough or learning when
to let things go.
And I'm sure you see that in personalrelationships.
I think of my life in personal relationships,if you get the person that's gonna just not
(22:16):
listen and you think, okay, just have to agreeto disagree.
Sometimes you have to take that road.
Very hard for me.
Some more good coaching from you.
Have to practice that all the time butsometimes or because me, my personality is I
want to get to the bottom of it.
What happened?
Were you tired?
Like in my personal relationships and then myson will say, Mom, can we just let it go?
(22:41):
Can we just let it go?
Sometimes you do.
Well, our job is to analyze communication.
So it is hard to let's give a shout out foreveryone who is in our friend group and family
group.
I'm sure that
Oh, yeah.
And they'd be like, really?
Hey.
We're blooming where we were planted,
though.
Yeah.
Can I ask a question about your books realquick?
(23:02):
Sure.
Okay.
I'm in the process of acquiring them.
There's the Authentic Connection Movement andthen a Therapist Insider's Guide about healing
the past.
Which is more recent and which would yourecommend a person?
I'm going to read them.
Which should I start with?
The first one is a Therapist Insider's Guide onHealing the Past.
(23:23):
So that's the first one.
I wrote that ten years ago.
Okay.
So what I did was I was not practicing at thetime, and that's when I started my business.
Okay.
And I decided to analyze my own life at thatpoint, which we're not supposed to do when
we're in practice.
So what had happened was I decided that I wasgoing to help people out that would not to talk
(23:46):
to someone that did what I did for a living.
And a lot of changes had happened in my life atage 44.
So I basically deconstructed my life from birthall the way up to 44 and analyzed all of my
relationships like any psychologist would,along with steps with if there are issues in
(24:07):
those particular areas of your relationships,what you could do to enhance them.
She had kind of like the good, the bad, or theugly, looking, using my life as a template.
People said to me, oh my goodness, I can'tbelieve you're talking about this.
I said, if one person reads this, one person,and they're able to make changes in their
friendships or whatever, then I've made adifference.
(24:28):
So that's the first one.
The most recent one, which I can send youbecause you're sending me one of yours, is ROR,
Return of How Authentic Leadership Builds MoreResilient Teams.
That just got released last year.
I love the return on relationships.
I have never heard that referred to.
(24:48):
Copyright that quickly.
Well, will be copyrighted because it's in yourit's your book title.
Of course, return on relationships is ingeneral, and it's actually a scientific term,
but in reference to what I'm talking about, itobviously copyrighted that way.
So I would say either one, it depends.
The first one is written for more kind ofeither way you can learn about yourself in
(25:13):
relationships.
The second one is more to the leader that wantsto learn about what he or she needs to do to
enhance their capacity, to be more authenticand connect so that they can allow each of
their teams or different business units torelate to them because they would have known
how to adapt their behaviors to meet them wherethey're at.
(25:35):
Beautiful.
And I think authenticity is the close cousin ofvulnerability because we fear that if we bring
our authentic self sometimes to the workplacein a professional way, I don't think it's fair
to show up in my jammies and say, this isauthentically me.
I mean, really putting my soul in positionswhere my mouth is.
Absolutely.
(25:55):
Absolutely.
That does require courage to be vulnerable, andI find that clients and I, all of us, probably
need to do what you did, somewhat of a lifereview, maybe not to the extent that you have,
which is very brave work, thank you for doingthat because as soon as others see themselves
in you they will have a new friend on the pageand have some ideas.
(26:16):
Yeah
because you're going through things and stufflike that But people always are so afraid.
They think, If I see a psychotherapist or apsychologist, something must be wrong with me.
And I go, It's really it's just people livinglives and things happen.
And it's how what could you do if you would notgo get the professional help or perspective,
(26:37):
you could read this book and then walk awaywith it.
My first counseling appointment was in 02/2004.
I was going because of relationshipdifficulties and had degrees in psychology, but
certainly respected that I can't be a greatlistener to myself.
Yes.
And the first thing that this person said tome, sort of poured out my heart for a few
minutes and she looked at me and said, I thinkthat you might have to look at lowering your
(27:01):
expectations of people, lowering yourstandards.
And I got my stuff, put it together, thankedher for her time, and left because I believed
that the one thing you can't tell me is tolower my standards in a relationship.
And I think we both I went back to her.
We're lifelong friends we're still in touchafter the therapy ended and I see her point and
(27:29):
I realized that my expectations were overlyhigh at the same time I believe that high
expectations are appropriate in relationshipsand how people treat you.
She was maybe a little bit ahead of you.
She was a bit ahead of me.
Right, which is oftentimes what happens.
Kind of like when you're coaching too.
Right?
You kind of know where people are gonna land orwhere they potentially should land, I should
(27:53):
say.
But, you know, I often say it's like your x-rayvision is so enlightened because you think of
all the people that you've ever coached or thesame with me.
We can see things because we've done so much ofit and you gotta hold on tight.
I was ready to hear that.
Thought that Put
on, back up, go reverse.
I'm out of here.
(28:14):
You're like, bye bye.
See you later.
But that but stuck with me, you know, thatnight when I interacted with that individual,
had in the back of my head, do I have fairexpectations of people?
And I realized I sometimes have overly highexpectations of myself, and then my anger at
myself about that is creating a situation whereI might have overly high standards and others.
(28:37):
And it's a it's a joy now to have walked thetwisty road that of things, as you said,
happens, that life has thrown at me.
I like to tie that into teaching and coaching,and I think it's a fine line to know where to
use humor and how much to divulge, and I'mcareful about that.
But I do share about myself, and I find thatI'm becoming a better educator and coach the
(28:57):
more I'm willing to open small parts of myselfand share that vulnerability back to what we
were talking about with, like, providing thepersonality assessment to someone so they can
read about my business.
Just sharing to share, but sharing it for it tobe instrumental to to that teachable moment and
you think that's gonna make the differenceversus, you know, somebody else that's sharing
everything.
Well, the client doesn't wanna hear everythingabout our lives.
(29:19):
They might like in all They're like, okay, holdon, this is about me, isn't it?
Oh no, can you imagine?
Right, that's So
going back to the four Challenges, yep.
What is the number one that you have seen inyour tenure of doing this kind of work?
(29:40):
Or is that a hard question for you or is thatThat's a good question
because the book was just published in latetwenty twenty two, and these were new concepts
that I was writing about for me at the time.
So I'm just starting to put into coaching goalplans.
Please read my book and tell me which of thefour hidden challenges would you like to
(30:02):
overcome through this coaching, three or fourmonths of coaching?
Oh, interesting.
So you're going get some amazing informationfrom that, and it's going to be so interesting.
It's, yeah, biology, attachment theory, which,you know, and then how we project it out into
the world based on our connections with othersand who's triggering us and what skills do we
(30:25):
have, what skills don't we have, so manyvariables.
So I think it could be a split based on anycombinations of things about why people might
have any one of those goals for.
I would love to hear what you find out as youdo more assessments.
I think we're going to be staying in touch.
(30:45):
I think.
I think.
Yes.
You remind me of a chef who can open therefrigerator and make a beautiful gourmet meal
with what you have by figuring out how thingswork together.
Well maybe that's the way my brain works rightand my cookery teacher would probably say no
don't ever put her in a kitchen.
(31:07):
Okay.
She is bad.
But really
our viewers and listeners to this particularpod episode, I hope they're taking from this.
You can show up at any point in your life atany age with any mistakes and scars and
weaknesses, and there is a way forward andthere's information out there both in people
(31:29):
and in that can help you and self study so thatyou can have a yesterday that looks different
than tomorrow.
I was just coaching a group of young peoplethat are going to the Indianapolis State House
to try to present their they're going topresent their bills at the state house, and
they've been working on them for six months.
So their teacher called me in to a y w YMCA inNorthern Indiana on one of their meeting nights
(31:56):
and said, Michelle, please help them withpresentation skills because we what we have
here are high schoolers who are nervous aboutpresenting.
Right?
And as I listened to them introduce themselves,I just said, could everyone please just give me
your name and tell me something about your billthat you're presenting and then something you
love to do that isn't school?
(32:16):
And each person went, and one young lady did agood job with her content and explained her
name and what her bill was about and then whatshe liked to do when she wasn't at school, and
then she added, and as you can see, I'm not avery good public speaker, and I said, you were
getting an A plus until that last moment.
I would just like you to add yet.
(32:37):
So can we go through the whole thing again?
And she went through her three answers and thensaid, and I'm not a good public speaker yet.
So I hope that's how our listeners feel thatthey're maybe not where they want to be yet,
but with a it's amazing what a little effort ingetting feedback about your communication,
dropping some of the walls you have thatprotect your fears, and being willing to
(32:58):
acknowledge what you would like to learn or dobetter.
It also helps people around you see youdifferently when you're willing to have brave
things like that come out of your mouth.
And to also have the proper guidance, Michelle.
I think using your example with your therapist,whether it's personal and you need a therapist
or it's corporate and you need a coach torecognize that one benefits the other always,
(33:24):
right?
Because once you're making a shift, don't say,when I was in corporate, I'd say, leave
personal Roxanne at home and bring corporateRoxanne to work.
And we try to kind of slice that down themiddle and really we're one of the same, like
our triggers and the things that really getunder our skin and those types of things.
I that a lot.
I hear, Oh, I'm a completely different personat work than I am at home because folks will
(33:49):
get our personality and communication survey asthey enter coaching programs or training
programs, and they'll say, should I answer thisas work me or home me?
And I said, well, these are going to bequestions about you at work, but you're not
that different at home.
Probably, you're still the same you're stillthe same person.
So that's an interesting I've always thoughtthat there was more mapping over of personal
(34:13):
traits between home and or personal life andprofessional life than most people acknowledge,
but they'll say things like, oh, I'm in chargeat work, but at home, I do what my spouse wants
me to do.
How do you respond to that?
You tell them you think the triggers are stillthe same?
The strengths are
They display themselves in a different way,right?
(34:33):
So if you're my employee and I'm telling youwhat to do, you might contain your reaction to
the fact that I'm triggering you.
But at home, you probably can be a bit moremaybe you'd go and scream in the other room and
your pillow at your spouse.
Or start an argument.
Start an argument or say something that youcan't take back or whatever.
(34:54):
And it's really kind of the brain is showingyou something is happening.
I'm having this big visceral reaction.
This is big.
What where am I where is this taking me?
And I always say, then we go down the ladderand say, where is it repelling you back to and
what's that kind of belief about yourself thatyou need to kind of come to terms with.
(35:19):
And to recognise that, okay, I know where I ambut that's not now.
And how is it that Do I have the skills?
If I don't have the skills, that's one thing.
We can teach skills.
And how do I practice it even though I getexposed to the skills too?
I'm sure you do a lot of that with coaching,right?
Shut down, I climb up or I get a little bitmore aggressive or whatever.
(35:42):
But it's kind of learning where we all havebrains and bodies, Right?
And if we just recognize that we are people alltrying to get through a day and have that peace
of mind and to do good work.
I truly believe that we all want to make adifference.
We all want to have that imprint in theenvironment that we're at.
(36:03):
And I think when to your point, when you'remeeting people and I'm meeting people, I'm just
saying, hey.
We're all in this together.
I'm trying to do this too.
What are you trying to do kind of thing?
And when you collapse the kind of the stratabetween you and that person that you're
coaching, what happens is it's like a it's awin win.
Right?
But it's being able to get them there by yourrelationship with them.
(36:25):
Well, this is why you wrote the book about it.
I'm thrilled to to I'm thrilled to make youracquaintance and to see the overlap in our
work.
I wanna mention to listeners that if whatRoxanne is saying is hitting a chord with you,
I just wanna mention a page number.
I think that some of our listeners today mightenjoy checking out a letter I wrote to
(36:46):
conflict.
I wrote a love letter to conflict from myheart.
Why would I feel that I'm in love with conflictand disagreement?
And that's in chapter six, and it's on page 85.
There's a love letter to conflict.
I want to refer our listeners to it.
I think it would help them approach their nextdifficult conversation with more ease.
(37:06):
A love letter to conflict.
That's interesting.
I'm a weirdo is what that confirms.
I didn't say that.
And but I think it's speaking to thefunctionality of it too.
Right?
Right.
Absolutely.
Every behavior has a functionality to it.
And when you kinda, like you said, writing alove letter to it, it's making you look at it
(37:27):
from the angle of it.
Why did I have to develop this particularrelationship with you?
It served, purpose.
And then when you alter it
Well and, yeah, those difficult conversationshave been with me my whole life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wonder if others feel the same.
Absolutely.
And if we're not having them, that's not a goodsign.
(37:48):
Yeah.
So Michelle, I have I know we've we're probablyjust at time, but I wanna ask you a bit about
conflict on teams or between different stratasof levels of the organization.
So let's say you've had some unresolved ormaybe a little bit of conflict that was not
(38:13):
dealt with in a proper way.
The company recognizes that they want things toget better.
How open generally are people that are hiringyou to look at this is a bit of a this is
something happening over here.
This is happening over here to collate all theinformation you're getting to be able to
develop a strategy kind of long term forcommunication because it means they have to do
(38:37):
some cleanup.
Right?
Some time.
Some very open, and I would say that has to dowith not only our approach, but word-of-mouth.
They've often had someone that they trust inthe same industry or neighbor in a different
industry say, call these people.
Also, they see that we are going to do ourhomework and remain fair and respectful about
(38:58):
all positions and points of view.
And then as the coaching begins, we can get wecan ask people to think about where apologies
might be deserved because that takes courage.
And it really does make life less complicatedif we're willing to take a look at where an
apology might be deserved.
And I spent some part of this sometime thisweekend working on some notes of apology with
(39:20):
one of my coaching clients as a matter of fact.
Nice.
So, there's some thoughts and we can look at itas no one grows without conflict.
So, we teach the difference between destructiveand constructive conflict and then, we try to
make sure that what teams are doing are havingconflict about ideas and directions and
decisions and who's got the call on this, whosecall is it, rather than personalizing conflict
(39:45):
and making it Roxanne against Michelle and nowmy team doesn't interact with your team well
etc, so we do spend some time preventing ordismantling walls around empires as well and
usually those walls go up for understandablereasons and sometimes I have I remember in one
hospital I was trying to help people throughteam conflict and I asked so I wanted to do one
(40:09):
on one interviews with everyone, and I did.
That was interesting because I planned to beon-site for about four hours that day in a
spare hospital room and I remember thinking,wow I've been here twelve hours.
To think everyone wanted to talk for just ahalf an hour about this problem was naive and
we got to the other side of it and we got tosee them performing high performing and happy
(40:29):
again.
One of our most popular workshops is calledSecrets of Happy High Performing Teams because
to be very honest there aren't that many happyand high performing teams.
I see a lot of happy teams who maybe aren't aseffective or a lot of high performing but
they're not very happy with what they're doingor where they're working so we've now spent
(40:50):
some time studying and we can teach what arethe concepts and how can I be a team member who
contributes to make this team happier andhigher performing?
But Kurt
Sounds like a nice cross section, right?
Yes.
If you're lucky enough to be thinking, yes, myteam works hard.
We have positive results, and also I enjoythese people.
(41:12):
Spend a moment in gratitude because my team andI are in and out of hundreds of organizations a
year or interacting with hundreds in a year,and that's not very common.
And we're trying to make that the commonplaceevent.
Know, we probably will run out of time in thislifetime, but then the next generation can take
over to help create happy high performing teamsand we can all be part of that by summoning
(41:35):
courage to grow in skill as a communicator.
And courage is something intangible, but it isabsolutely vital, and we can only do that for
ourselves.
We have to find it within ourselves and pullthat forth, and it's worth the effort.
So just a little there's a little commercialfor you for I think you agree with me that we
(41:56):
should all be looking at ourselves lovingourselves but also seeking baby steps.
Two step forward one step back it's not goingto be linear it's twisty but the gifts are
amazing and they're unknowable and they canstart at home or they can start just between
you and a friend or you and a co worker.
Absolutely and it really does start with you inwhatever role you're playing as the leader and
(42:20):
whether it's at home or whether it's in yourcommunity, whether it's a corporate boardroom,
you might be leading, right, at any givenpoint.
And getting in alignment with the leader thatyou wanna be within is the gift that you give
the others that are that you're privileged tobe around.
So getting in alignment with the leader youwant to be within is the gift you give to
(42:41):
others.
Yeah,
that's what I think.
We have to love ourselves to be able to do thatand that is sometimes the toughest thing.
Absolutely.
So for leaders listening, and they're saying, Ithink we might have some of these issues,
Michelle, but I don't know where to start.
(43:03):
Tell them where they should and how you mightbe able to help them.
Sure.
I'm in Indiana and in The United States.
You could directly contact me on my cell phone,which is (260) 450-4202 or you could visit our
website and pick up contact information thereand so much more.
(43:27):
It's really been a labor of love for us.
We've posted a ton of great real life q and awith clients, newsletters there to sign up for.
That's gladioconsulting.com and that'sgladieuxlikex-rayconsulting.com.
I named my company twenty one years ago aftermy parents.
(43:50):
They're both deceased now, but they definitelyinstilled in me a lifelong love of learning,
and in their honor I will be pronouncing andspelling that last name forever Roxanne.
Oh, so we didn't name the company Training andCoaching Solutions.
We named it Gladio Consulting, but I would loveto hear from you.
(44:10):
And we do put a lot of good research, and wemake the newsletter fun.
And that's called Breakdown, named after afavorite Tom Petty song of mine.
Awesome.
So what am I taking away?
I think when I listened to Michelle, I realizedthat unfortunately, a lot of people still have
(44:31):
a definition of conflict as being somethingthat's out of control.
And once we start to realize that it's reallythe ingredients for enriching connection and
relationships, then we're going to be lookingat it in a different way.
So when there is difference, look at it as agrowth like this is the universe saying there's
(44:53):
something to be learned here.
I'm seeing it different.
Their lens is different.
Their values may be different.
Or something's blocking us, but it doesn't meanthat it has to be like a shutdown.
It's like being the Columbo in between the backand forth where you're thinking, What is it
that this person is trying to get across to methat I'm not getting?
(45:15):
And to ask more questions instead of going inour heads like we do and say, Ah, there we go
again.
Somebody's gonna tell me what to do orwhatever.
So to recognize that it's something that Ithink we're gonna learn till we are no longer
and we always can strive to get be better.
So thanks for hanging out again.
I'm launching a course on the ROR in June.
(45:39):
So I would love for you to sign up.
Go to roxandarhodge.com/quiz.
Fill out the quiz, and we'll get back to youwith next steps for the course.
Again, Michelle, thank you so much.
It's been always a pleasure.
And when I meet amazing people, think how luckyam I to be able to do what I do.
So thank you again, and everyone, take care,and we will see you soon.
(46:03):
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living withRoxanne, creating the space for positive,
healthy change.
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist,and coach.
To work with Roxanne, visitRoxanneDurhaj.com/blueprint.
We'll see you next time on Authentic Livingwith Roxanne.
Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, aplace where we have conscious conversations
about things that really matter in our lives.
And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
(00:40):
Hi, everyone.
It's Roxanne Durhodge.
Thanks for tuning in again this week toAuthentic Living with Roxanne.
I just wanna let you know I'm amazed how manyof you listened, and I just want you to
subscribe because we can just let you know whenthese cool people like Michelle Gladio's
popping in to visit us.
So go to iTunes, give her a review, show hersome love so that we can have some more
(01:03):
interesting guests like her on.
So, Michelle, thanks for being here.
And I'm let me tell you a little bit aboutMichelle.
And Michelle and I have a lot, we werechitchatting, and we I thought, oh, we should
hit record because we're having so much fun offcamera.
Michelle,
who the flower is gladiola, but I'll take that.
She's called the human potential whisperer,which I love.
(01:25):
And her mission is to grow people as leadersand communicators every day.
She's the author of award winning bookCommunicate with Taking Risks to Overcome the
Four Hidden Challenges.
And she's the president of her company, GladioConsulting.
She's worked in Anubas Corporate Environments,HR Training Director in things from cold
(01:47):
storage to robotics, construction, maledominated kind of environment.
And she's a keynote speaker.
And she's designed over a thousand originalseminars.
That's amazing.
And her positive effect on those who advises isevident after she just has one interaction.
I can tell you, we just met and that is sotrue.
(02:08):
Michelle, tell us what got you talking aboutcourage?
Like, you started a path, it sounds like.
Did you go to a business school?
What did you do?
Sure.
I went to Purdue University in West Lafayette,and I studied psychology, specifically
organizational and industrial psychology,because I knew that I wanted to do something
(02:33):
along the lines of what you've done with yourlife, Roxanne, but I wasn't quite sure about
clinical psych.
I felt more called to how humans behave in theworkplace and then over now a long career,
about twenty five years as an instructionaldesigner, educator, executive coach, We
deliver, my team and I are a team of eightbased out of Fort Wayne, Indiana, we deliver
(02:56):
very custom teaching for folks and we meet themwhere they are and we really need to earn their
trust and we do earn their trust and so we godown these curvy roads that people are on as
communicators with them whether it's a largegroup or one on one coaching and in all of the
obstacles that I've seen that hold people backfrom more joy and more respect, getting more
(03:21):
respect as communicators and throughout theircareers, not to mention in their personal
lives, it seems to come down to can we be braveenough to learn about our strengths and
weaknesses as you well know and then work onthe weaker points to help them become
strengths.
It's very possible to do so, and that, ofcourse, requires courage and a good teacher or
(03:46):
teachers.
Life is a teacher, and all those we meet canteach us, or we can work one on one with a
coach to get to where you are closer to yourpotential, to get to where you're meant to be
in this life, which I firmly believe is as amessage sender and receiver, we can change the
world, each of us in our very unique ways.
So courage became a theme of my book.
(04:09):
It's called Communicate with Courage, TakingRisks to Overcome the Four Hidden Challenges
because I tried to put my very best advice intoa short book and keep it to the point and tell
personal real life stories about myself andreal life people.
And wouldn't you know the theme that keptemerging really was gain skill and gain
(04:29):
courage.
Build it like a muscle.
Gain skill and gain courage.
Now the companies that hire you to do coaching,I'm gonna say they are companies that are aware
of the impact of increasing the skills of thepeople in the environment.
Sometimes when you go in, do you find thatpeople are still shy they shy away from
(04:52):
coaching for fear that there's repercussions?
If someone owns a consulting company orwhatever you're doing different sectors, I'm
gonna assume.
How open are employees to getting coached ifthe company buys coaching?
It's a great question, and there's always somehesitance.
I would be hesitating if you said,congratulations Michelle we've hired an
(05:15):
executive coach for you and you're going totake a personality assessment and get a 14 page
results report read all about yourself and thecoach will be reading.
So you're right I understand that there aresome people who are hesitant, but I think that
we've done a really good job of meeting thathesitancy by respecting it.
(05:36):
I will provide my personality report first toyou, for example, if you're about to take the
survey online and that way you can see like howcool is this?
Look at it shows how extroverted introverted Iam, what my style is, how I make decisions, how
I handle conflict.
So we try to give as much as we ask others togive, and a lot of my teaching and coaching
(05:59):
does involve references to personal current andpast personal stories.
So it's an interesting fine line between verygood friend and client, and we try to be a very
good friend to our clients while keepingprofessional boundaries where they should be so
that we can also deliver difficult to receivefeedback sometimes, but always with love and
(06:22):
with respect for others' self esteem becauseit's a delicate balance and we've all had
bosses or teachers or coaches or guides whoweren't really ethical or they weren't very
skilled at giving feedback.
So people do come in a little bit hesitantsometimes, yes, but they always find that it's
worth it and that we approach the work withhumor and a sense of no one being better or
(06:49):
more valuable than any other human at the soullevel.
So you show them your assessment?
Absolutely.
Wow.
What vulnerability is that, right?
Because to be able to do that, to be able toshare, especially if somebody's got a bit of
trepidation, I don't know what's going tohappen here.
What a nice way to open the door for thembecause you're kind of saying, I've done it.
(07:13):
I'm not so good at over there.
I'm actually pretty good over here, in themiddle over here.
Because then they kind of go, oh, it's notsomething that's being done to me.
It becomes almost like an invisiblecollaborative relationship that you're starting
to get into.
So true, especially the conflict managementbreakdown that shows the five ways that humans
(07:34):
can handle disagreement and then what theclient's preference is and how often they use
each style and my competing score has been waytoo high for too long but I have wrangled it
I've wrangled it down so that it's not thewhole pie and there are other slices of the pie
and I can do things like accommodate compromiseavoid etc collaborate but I'll show them that
(07:58):
right away sometimes and say and look at yours,look at how balanced you are with how you
handle conflict, what coaching do you have forme because I am overly competitive and that's
interesting also to be able to receiveinstruction from our clients has made me better
at what I do and has made our team better forsure.
(08:18):
Based on the sector that you're serving, andI'm going to assume it, are you in lots of
different sectors with some of the contractsyou're dealing with?
Got it.
Yep.
What sector might be a bit more closed offcompared to other I could name some.
Just asking
to hear.
Yeah.
Bet you could.
I have to be careful.
Right?
No.
Don't say anything if it's one company that youhappen to have.
(08:42):
I wouldn't.
We try to only share actual names when we havecompliments to give, whether it's we're talking
about one human or And
then, commit, commit, then deliver.
Right?
Absolutely.
Folks who are used to being the highest poweredperson in the room through positional power or
personal power, such as doctors Okay.
(09:04):
Professors, commanders in the military, highranking political officials, and not always.
Sometimes they can be the most excited and themost open about how they might receive four or
five goals.
The way I I do it, the meeting is up to twohours once a month, and then I spend a few days
(09:26):
creating a very tight, succinct, doable goalplan that has four or five baby steps for the
client to take before we meet again in thirtydays.
And many of these folks that are high rankingare very interested in getting better.
It really has a lot to do with self esteem,upbringing, and personality, I think, but I can
(09:47):
think of some challenges where we really had toprove our worth, right, and demonstrate that
even if you are high powered and highlysuccessful, there's sometimes in that case is
even more to learn because how will you getpeople to feel at ease and give you real deal
feedback, for example, if there's somedifference in political power or positional
(10:13):
power?
In my book that I wrote on return it's ROIreturn on relationship.
Yes.
So we talk and I look basically, it's writtento the leader to look at his or her kind of
spectrum in five areas.
Right?
Communication, connection, decision making,balance processing, and recognition.
(10:40):
Like, so if I don't know myself in those areas,it's kind of hard to impart it.
Let's say, Michelle, and I know we wouldn't bevery different, I could just tell by talking to
you.
But if we're that different from someone elseand we're not recognizing that we're not able
to blend because maybe you're the left brainerthat's so microscopic that you're able to see
(11:07):
patterns and I'm a big picture kind of person.
We're just gonna sometimes be diametricallyopposed in how we kind of look to say goals or
communication.
So the leader kind of looks at his or herstyle, especially when they're under stress.
And how do they come across and what could theylearn so that they can enhance their capacity
(11:27):
to connect?
So it's interesting that you're seeing withsome of these senior leaders, it's not just
about the position, but it's so many otherdifferent elements that might impact them.
Well said, and Roxanne, I feel like you'respeaking directly to me and coaching me as I
think about, I'm a driver expressive or DI ifit's a DISC person if that's that we're talking
(11:49):
about right?
Yes.
And how just how much work it has been for meto realize the other 8,000,000,000 people on
the planet have very different mixes ofpersonality and upbringing strengths, life.
I think I went for a long period in my lifebelieving everyone experienced life the way I
do, and it was not beneficial especially innegotiation and conflict scenarios, and what is
(12:14):
that?
But personal relationships are all that.
Right?
And how hard it is, as you say, to blend, but Ilove a challenge.
And I do think about those styles I have lessof, like amiability and analytical style.
And I I'll sometimes picture a person that Iknow and respect who has that style that I wish
(12:35):
I had going into the situation, and I willthink about acting as if, and I know you've
been a therapist for many years.
I don't know if that's something you everrecommend, but when you 're talking about
blending, you talking about acting as if andadding some style that's usually not ours
trying that on blending?
No, I think the overarching element isawareness.
Right?
So when I deal with senior leaders or whateverand they say I'm really good stress.
(13:00):
I'm more succinct.
And, you know, I'd be like, oh, okay.
If their analysis of themself is incongruentwith their teams, there's a disconnect.
So, like, when you're coaching, okay.
Well, if you're just giving yourself an eightin all these areas, but everybody's giving you
a one or two, does that disparity exist for areason?
Because they're too sensitive, Roxanne.
(13:22):
And I'm like, okay.
We all have blind spots.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Mine is microscopic, analytical, wanting tomake everybody happy and try to be
collaborative.
And sometimes people don't wanna do that.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
So I in certain areas.
So I then I'll say to them, okay.
So you think you're pretty good with how do youcommunicate when you're stressed.
I would like you to go home and speak to youryoungest child.
(13:44):
And what if and they'll say, what am I asking?
I said, I want you to ask your youngest childthe last time you were really stressed how they
would describe you.
Oh, boy.
And then they go, I'm different at work thanhome.
I said, are you?
Right, and then what happens is, I said, Don'tstart with the oldest.
The oldest is gonna give you what you needbecause they're thinking, What do I have to say
(14:06):
to kind of get out of this?
Then the middle one might be more in the middleand the younger one's just gonna give it to you
full on, boat bearings.
I know you grew up with six children in yourfamily, right?
Yes, yes.
I'm the middle child, so guess what?
I'm the child.
I'm like the plates at the circus that try tokeep everything spinning and make sure
everybody's okay, right?
You are a highly skilled communicator and I'mjust so I've been listening to the podcast
(14:31):
congratulations on the three twenty episodesthat's a big deal.
Thank you.
What a volunteerism thing to do to help educateall of us.
Well, I love meeting fantastic people.
And I listen to a lot of podcasts myself, butwhat happens is when I meet you, I learn all
(14:51):
the stuff that you've been doing in your world,and then I get exposure to all the something
new from a different angle.
So I and I think to me, it's and I'm anextrovert, obviously, and so I get energized by
doing these.
So I think I just like some people will say, Ohno, don't you think about yourself in camera?
I said, I used to, maybe for the first ten.
(15:14):
And then after that, I didn't think about itafter that.
So I think to your point, it's about knowingwhat your strengths are but how do you approach
it so you can enhance the capacity to deal withyour blind spots because it's no right or
wrong.
But in turn, once you get that, then you'reable to that force field around you becomes a
(15:35):
little bit more permeable because you'reunderstanding the personalities that you're
around to be able bring out the best out ofpotentially the people that you're dealing
with.
Right.
Which is the very definition of leadership, andwe don't need a fancy title to make big waves,
big positive waves in our organizationalculture.
In most places that we work, I would say peopleare underestimating their ability to make a
(15:59):
positive difference.
If they were to work on gaining some skill andcourage in communication, they could have a
more impactful positive impact in their workand in their personal lives as well.
Oh, absolutely.
So let's talk about the four blocks because I'dlove to hear more about that because it's I
often say it's I'm a great communicator, butnobody likes conflict.
(16:22):
We think of conflict as being a big blowout orsomething big.
You have to really think, well, it's maybe notthat bad.
I have to practice a little bit.
I still don't like it.
And I've done it for thirty years in my role.
So what are some of those blocks that stoppeople from having courage to communicate?
Sure.
There are four that I write about inCommunicate with Courage and they are hiding
(16:44):
from risk, defining to be right, rationalizingthe negative, and then settling for good
enough.
And I spend about 10 pages per chapter towardsthe middle of the book helping people see if
they have this hidden challenge and how and outof the subconscious or out of their peripheral
(17:05):
vision so that they can work on it.
There are a couple supporting chapters I wantto just mention around the hidden challenges
that include strength and vulnerability, whichis saying nobody's perfect and meaning it.
We also have risks, a chapter about risks notworth taking because we can't just claim I'm
(17:26):
being courageous and rush in to do damage.
The most important conversations to have andthen the last chapter is the complete risk
taking communicator.
But back to your question about the hiddenchallenges, would you like me to speak about
any of those hiding from risk, defining to beright, rationalizing the negative, or settling
for good enough?
(17:47):
Well, why don't you define them a bit?
Then I have another question for you based onwho you coach in reference to the most, well,
the one that seems to show up the most.
So let's just define them because I thinkthat's important.
Absolutely.
Hiding from risk is leaning on our masks thatwe wear, hiding, fear of exposing a weakness
(18:09):
that is either a real weakness or one that wemight just used to have dealt with and have
overcome, but we don't recognize it yet.
So we're feeling intimidated in some way, andwhat we do is we try to get past that.
I ask people to decide to engage more when itinvolves their values, and then in the book,
(18:30):
teach them how Okay.
The second challenge is defining to be right,and that is when we put just too much stock
into our own assumptions and our own lifeexperience and being so sure that it's just so
darn sure of our position or our opinion or theway that we think things should be handled that
(18:50):
people eventually begin to stop sharing diversethought that could
It's like the it's like the curtain goes down,and you know you've lost them.
Yeah.
You can't tell her anything.
You can't tell them anything.
He's not gonna listen, and you can develop areputation for that if you're not careful.
That can be remedied, and I have some coachingclients that are really working to come back
(19:15):
from that kind of reputation.
But that is the hidden challenge of being adefiner and defining to make sure that you are
right.
Yeah, yeah.
The third challenge is rationalizing thenegative.
This is a pet peeve of mine.
I've worked hard to try to maintain anoptimistic mindset.
I believe strongly that we can be realistic andoptimistic at the same time.
(19:39):
But if you are falling into rationalizing thenegative, you honestly might be a drag to work
with or to live with.
It it can literally be a drag on others'energy, and rationalizing the negative happens
when we choose a pessimistic mindset and weshield ourselves then from taking chances to do
the hard thing.
The best thing is sometimes the hardest thingin communication, like facing a conflict or
(20:04):
negotiating, maybe asking for help or sayingI'm sorry or I love you or I need this to
change.
So I ask people and teach them to put somecourage and faith and time into visualizing
possible positive outcomes and it's reallyworking well for me.
(20:25):
You mentioned I've created over a thousandoriginal seminars and been doing this for
twenty five years flying here and there drivinghere and there and every time I have an
opportunity to speak to keynote if it's aworkshop or a seminar I spend time alone
visualizing just how that's going to go, andnow for twenty five years that's pretty much
(20:48):
how it's gone.
Things like people are laughing, there arehands up, people are eager to answer questions
and share stories, and people leave with goals,very specific baby step goals to help them
become better team members, employers,communicators overall, presenters, writers, and
it's never a perfect presentation or a perfectevent.
(21:11):
But I do believe that if I were rationalizingthe negative and expecting things not to go
well, they would not have gone so well so far.
Nice.
Nice.
What is what do you see as being the onebiggest block?
Like
Should I mention the fourth just real quickly?
(21:32):
Yes, please.
Settling for and I probably talked too long onthat one because, as I mentioned, it's a pet
peeve of mine.
But settling for good enough is just what itsounds like, really.
It's striving, striving, not striving, it'sjust accepting instead of striving towards a
more viable, helpful, successful outcome.
So it's stopping it good enough instead ofstriving toward having interactions that can
(21:55):
slowly but surely change the world, change thecompany, change our families and change
ourselves.
Sometimes knowing when to call it and say, Ithink we've resolved it enough or learning when
to let things go.
And I'm sure you see that in personalrelationships.
I think of my life in personal relationships,if you get the person that's gonna just not
(22:16):
listen and you think, okay, just have to agreeto disagree.
Sometimes you have to take that road.
Very hard for me.
Some more good coaching from you.
Have to practice that all the time butsometimes or because me, my personality is I
want to get to the bottom of it.
What happened?
Were you tired?
Like in my personal relationships and then myson will say, Mom, can we just let it go?
(22:41):
Can we just let it go?
Sometimes you do.
Well, our job is to analyze communication.
So it is hard to let's give a shout out foreveryone who is in our friend group and family
group.
I'm sure that
Oh, yeah.
And they'd be like, really?
Hey.
We're blooming where we were planted,
though.
Yeah.
Can I ask a question about your books realquick?
(23:02):
Sure.
Okay.
I'm in the process of acquiring them.
There's the Authentic Connection Movement andthen a Therapist Insider's Guide about healing
the past.
Which is more recent and which would yourecommend a person?
I'm going to read them.
Which should I start with?
The first one is a Therapist Insider's Guide onHealing the Past.
(23:23):
So that's the first one.
I wrote that ten years ago.
Okay.
So what I did was I was not practicing at thetime, and that's when I started my business.
Okay.
And I decided to analyze my own life at thatpoint, which we're not supposed to do when
we're in practice.
So what had happened was I decided that I wasgoing to help people out that would not to talk
(23:46):
to someone that did what I did for a living.
And a lot of changes had happened in my life atage 44.
So I basically deconstructed my life from birthall the way up to 44 and analyzed all of my
relationships like any psychologist would,along with steps with if there are issues in
(24:07):
those particular areas of your relationships,what you could do to enhance them.
She had kind of like the good, the bad, or theugly, looking, using my life as a template.
People said to me, oh my goodness, I can'tbelieve you're talking about this.
I said, if one person reads this, one person,and they're able to make changes in their
friendships or whatever, then I've made adifference.
(24:28):
So that's the first one.
The most recent one, which I can send youbecause you're sending me one of yours, is ROR,
Return of How Authentic Leadership Builds MoreResilient Teams.
That just got released last year.
I love the return on relationships.
I have never heard that referred to.
(24:48):
Copyright that quickly.
Well, will be copyrighted because it's in yourit's your book title.
Of course, return on relationships is ingeneral, and it's actually a scientific term,
but in reference to what I'm talking about, itobviously copyrighted that way.
So I would say either one, it depends.
The first one is written for more kind ofeither way you can learn about yourself in
(25:13):
relationships.
The second one is more to the leader that wantsto learn about what he or she needs to do to
enhance their capacity, to be more authenticand connect so that they can allow each of
their teams or different business units torelate to them because they would have known
how to adapt their behaviors to meet them wherethey're at.
(25:35):
Beautiful.
And I think authenticity is the close cousin ofvulnerability because we fear that if we bring
our authentic self sometimes to the workplacein a professional way, I don't think it's fair
to show up in my jammies and say, this isauthentically me.
I mean, really putting my soul in positionswhere my mouth is.
Absolutely.
(25:55):
Absolutely.
That does require courage to be vulnerable, andI find that clients and I, all of us, probably
need to do what you did, somewhat of a lifereview, maybe not to the extent that you have,
which is very brave work, thank you for doingthat because as soon as others see themselves
in you they will have a new friend on the pageand have some ideas.
(26:16):
Yeah
because you're going through things and stufflike that But people always are so afraid.
They think, If I see a psychotherapist or apsychologist, something must be wrong with me.
And I go, It's really it's just people livinglives and things happen.
And it's how what could you do if you would notgo get the professional help or perspective,
(26:37):
you could read this book and then walk awaywith it.
My first counseling appointment was in 02/2004.
I was going because of relationshipdifficulties and had degrees in psychology, but
certainly respected that I can't be a greatlistener to myself.
Yes.
And the first thing that this person said tome, sort of poured out my heart for a few
minutes and she looked at me and said, I thinkthat you might have to look at lowering your
(27:01):
expectations of people, lowering yourstandards.
And I got my stuff, put it together, thankedher for her time, and left because I believed
that the one thing you can't tell me is tolower my standards in a relationship.
And I think we both I went back to her.
We're lifelong friends we're still in touchafter the therapy ended and I see her point and
(27:29):
I realized that my expectations were overlyhigh at the same time I believe that high
expectations are appropriate in relationshipsand how people treat you.
She was maybe a little bit ahead of you.
She was a bit ahead of me.
Right, which is oftentimes what happens.
Kind of like when you're coaching too.
Right?
You kind of know where people are gonna land orwhere they potentially should land, I should
(27:53):
say.
But, you know, I often say it's like your x-rayvision is so enlightened because you think of
all the people that you've ever coached or thesame with me.
We can see things because we've done so much ofit and you gotta hold on tight.
I was ready to hear that.
Thought that Put
on, back up, go reverse.
I'm out of here.
(28:14):
You're like, bye bye.
See you later.
But that but stuck with me, you know, thatnight when I interacted with that individual,
had in the back of my head, do I have fairexpectations of people?
And I realized I sometimes have overly highexpectations of myself, and then my anger at
myself about that is creating a situation whereI might have overly high standards and others.
(28:37):
And it's a it's a joy now to have walked thetwisty road that of things, as you said,
happens, that life has thrown at me.
I like to tie that into teaching and coaching,and I think it's a fine line to know where to
use humor and how much to divulge, and I'mcareful about that.
But I do share about myself, and I find thatI'm becoming a better educator and coach the
(28:57):
more I'm willing to open small parts of myselfand share that vulnerability back to what we
were talking about with, like, providing thepersonality assessment to someone so they can
read about my business.
Just sharing to share, but sharing it for it tobe instrumental to to that teachable moment and
you think that's gonna make the differenceversus, you know, somebody else that's sharing
everything.
Well, the client doesn't wanna hear everythingabout our lives.
(29:19):
They might like in all They're like, okay, holdon, this is about me, isn't it?
Oh no, can you imagine?
Right, that's So
going back to the four Challenges, yep.
What is the number one that you have seen inyour tenure of doing this kind of work?
(29:40):
Or is that a hard question for you or is thatThat's a good question
because the book was just published in latetwenty twenty two, and these were new concepts
that I was writing about for me at the time.
So I'm just starting to put into coaching goalplans.
Please read my book and tell me which of thefour hidden challenges would you like to
(30:02):
overcome through this coaching, three or fourmonths of coaching?
Oh, interesting.
So you're going get some amazing informationfrom that, and it's going to be so interesting.
It's, yeah, biology, attachment theory, which,you know, and then how we project it out into
the world based on our connections with othersand who's triggering us and what skills do we
(30:25):
have, what skills don't we have, so manyvariables.
So I think it could be a split based on anycombinations of things about why people might
have any one of those goals for.
I would love to hear what you find out as youdo more assessments.
I think we're going to be staying in touch.
(30:45):
I think.
I think.
Yes.
You remind me of a chef who can open therefrigerator and make a beautiful gourmet meal
with what you have by figuring out how thingswork together.
Well maybe that's the way my brain works rightand my cookery teacher would probably say no
don't ever put her in a kitchen.
(31:07):
Okay.
She is bad.
But really
our viewers and listeners to this particularpod episode, I hope they're taking from this.
You can show up at any point in your life atany age with any mistakes and scars and
weaknesses, and there is a way forward andthere's information out there both in people
(31:29):
and in that can help you and self study so thatyou can have a yesterday that looks different
than tomorrow.
I was just coaching a group of young peoplethat are going to the Indianapolis State House
to try to present their they're going topresent their bills at the state house, and
they've been working on them for six months.
So their teacher called me in to a y w YMCA inNorthern Indiana on one of their meeting nights
(31:56):
and said, Michelle, please help them withpresentation skills because we what we have
here are high schoolers who are nervous aboutpresenting.
Right?
And as I listened to them introduce themselves,I just said, could everyone please just give me
your name and tell me something about your billthat you're presenting and then something you
love to do that isn't school?
(32:16):
And each person went, and one young lady did agood job with her content and explained her
name and what her bill was about and then whatshe liked to do when she wasn't at school, and
then she added, and as you can see, I'm not avery good public speaker, and I said, you were
getting an A plus until that last moment.
I would just like you to add yet.
(32:37):
So can we go through the whole thing again?
And she went through her three answers and thensaid, and I'm not a good public speaker yet.
So I hope that's how our listeners feel thatthey're maybe not where they want to be yet,
but with a it's amazing what a little effort ingetting feedback about your communication,
dropping some of the walls you have thatprotect your fears, and being willing to
(32:58):
acknowledge what you would like to learn or dobetter.
It also helps people around you see youdifferently when you're willing to have brave
things like that come out of your mouth.
And to also have the proper guidance, Michelle.
I think using your example with your therapist,whether it's personal and you need a therapist
or it's corporate and you need a coach torecognize that one benefits the other always,
(33:24):
right?
Because once you're making a shift, don't say,when I was in corporate, I'd say, leave
personal Roxanne at home and bring corporateRoxanne to work.
And we try to kind of slice that down themiddle and really we're one of the same, like
our triggers and the things that really getunder our skin and those types of things.
I that a lot.
I hear, Oh, I'm a completely different personat work than I am at home because folks will
(33:49):
get our personality and communication survey asthey enter coaching programs or training
programs, and they'll say, should I answer thisas work me or home me?
And I said, well, these are going to bequestions about you at work, but you're not
that different at home.
Probably, you're still the same you're stillthe same person.
So that's an interesting I've always thoughtthat there was more mapping over of personal
(34:13):
traits between home and or personal life andprofessional life than most people acknowledge,
but they'll say things like, oh, I'm in chargeat work, but at home, I do what my spouse wants
me to do.
How do you respond to that?
You tell them you think the triggers are stillthe same?
The strengths are
They display themselves in a different way,right?
(34:33):
So if you're my employee and I'm telling youwhat to do, you might contain your reaction to
the fact that I'm triggering you.
But at home, you probably can be a bit moremaybe you'd go and scream in the other room and
your pillow at your spouse.
Or start an argument.
Start an argument or say something that youcan't take back or whatever.
(34:54):
And it's really kind of the brain is showingyou something is happening.
I'm having this big visceral reaction.
This is big.
What where am I where is this taking me?
And I always say, then we go down the ladderand say, where is it repelling you back to and
what's that kind of belief about yourself thatyou need to kind of come to terms with.
(35:19):
And to recognise that, okay, I know where I ambut that's not now.
And how is it that Do I have the skills?
If I don't have the skills, that's one thing.
We can teach skills.
And how do I practice it even though I getexposed to the skills too?
I'm sure you do a lot of that with coaching,right?
Shut down, I climb up or I get a little bitmore aggressive or whatever.
(35:42):
But it's kind of learning where we all havebrains and bodies, Right?
And if we just recognize that we are people alltrying to get through a day and have that peace
of mind and to do good work.
I truly believe that we all want to make adifference.
We all want to have that imprint in theenvironment that we're at.
(36:03):
And I think when to your point, when you'remeeting people and I'm meeting people, I'm just
saying, hey.
We're all in this together.
I'm trying to do this too.
What are you trying to do kind of thing?
And when you collapse the kind of the stratabetween you and that person that you're
coaching, what happens is it's like a it's awin win.
Right?
But it's being able to get them there by yourrelationship with them.
(36:25):
Well, this is why you wrote the book about it.
I'm thrilled to to I'm thrilled to make youracquaintance and to see the overlap in our
work.
I wanna mention to listeners that if whatRoxanne is saying is hitting a chord with you,
I just wanna mention a page number.
I think that some of our listeners today mightenjoy checking out a letter I wrote to
(36:46):
conflict.
I wrote a love letter to conflict from myheart.
Why would I feel that I'm in love with conflictand disagreement?
And that's in chapter six, and it's on page 85.
There's a love letter to conflict.
I want to refer our listeners to it.
I think it would help them approach their nextdifficult conversation with more ease.
(37:06):
A love letter to conflict.
That's interesting.
I'm a weirdo is what that confirms.
I didn't say that.
And but I think it's speaking to thefunctionality of it too.
Right?
Right.
Absolutely.
Every behavior has a functionality to it.
And when you kinda, like you said, writing alove letter to it, it's making you look at it
(37:27):
from the angle of it.
Why did I have to develop this particularrelationship with you?
It served, purpose.
And then when you alter it
Well and, yeah, those difficult conversationshave been with me my whole life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wonder if others feel the same.
Absolutely.
And if we're not having them, that's not a goodsign.
(37:48):
Yeah.
So Michelle, I have I know we've we're probablyjust at time, but I wanna ask you a bit about
conflict on teams or between different stratasof levels of the organization.
So let's say you've had some unresolved ormaybe a little bit of conflict that was not
(38:13):
dealt with in a proper way.
The company recognizes that they want things toget better.
How open generally are people that are hiringyou to look at this is a bit of a this is
something happening over here.
This is happening over here to collate all theinformation you're getting to be able to
develop a strategy kind of long term forcommunication because it means they have to do
(38:37):
some cleanup.
Right?
Some time.
Some very open, and I would say that has to dowith not only our approach, but word-of-mouth.
They've often had someone that they trust inthe same industry or neighbor in a different
industry say, call these people.
Also, they see that we are going to do ourhomework and remain fair and respectful about
(38:58):
all positions and points of view.
And then as the coaching begins, we can get wecan ask people to think about where apologies
might be deserved because that takes courage.
And it really does make life less complicatedif we're willing to take a look at where an
apology might be deserved.
And I spent some part of this sometime thisweekend working on some notes of apology with
(39:20):
one of my coaching clients as a matter of fact.
Nice.
So, there's some thoughts and we can look at itas no one grows without conflict.
So, we teach the difference between destructiveand constructive conflict and then, we try to
make sure that what teams are doing are havingconflict about ideas and directions and
decisions and who's got the call on this, whosecall is it, rather than personalizing conflict
(39:45):
and making it Roxanne against Michelle and nowmy team doesn't interact with your team well
etc, so we do spend some time preventing ordismantling walls around empires as well and
usually those walls go up for understandablereasons and sometimes I have I remember in one
hospital I was trying to help people throughteam conflict and I asked so I wanted to do one
(40:09):
on one interviews with everyone, and I did.
That was interesting because I planned to beon-site for about four hours that day in a
spare hospital room and I remember thinking,wow I've been here twelve hours.
To think everyone wanted to talk for just ahalf an hour about this problem was naive and
we got to the other side of it and we got tosee them performing high performing and happy
(40:29):
again.
One of our most popular workshops is calledSecrets of Happy High Performing Teams because
to be very honest there aren't that many happyand high performing teams.
I see a lot of happy teams who maybe aren't aseffective or a lot of high performing but
they're not very happy with what they're doingor where they're working so we've now spent
(40:50):
some time studying and we can teach what arethe concepts and how can I be a team member who
contributes to make this team happier andhigher performing?
But Kurt
Sounds like a nice cross section, right?
Yes.
If you're lucky enough to be thinking, yes, myteam works hard.
We have positive results, and also I enjoythese people.
(41:12):
Spend a moment in gratitude because my team andI are in and out of hundreds of organizations a
year or interacting with hundreds in a year,and that's not very common.
And we're trying to make that the commonplaceevent.
Know, we probably will run out of time in thislifetime, but then the next generation can take
over to help create happy high performing teamsand we can all be part of that by summoning
(41:35):
courage to grow in skill as a communicator.
And courage is something intangible, but it isabsolutely vital, and we can only do that for
ourselves.
We have to find it within ourselves and pullthat forth, and it's worth the effort.
So just a little there's a little commercialfor you for I think you agree with me that we
(41:56):
should all be looking at ourselves lovingourselves but also seeking baby steps.
Two step forward one step back it's not goingto be linear it's twisty but the gifts are
amazing and they're unknowable and they canstart at home or they can start just between
you and a friend or you and a co worker.
Absolutely and it really does start with you inwhatever role you're playing as the leader and
(42:20):
whether it's at home or whether it's in yourcommunity, whether it's a corporate boardroom,
you might be leading, right, at any givenpoint.
And getting in alignment with the leader thatyou wanna be within is the gift that you give
the others that are that you're privileged tobe around.
So getting in alignment with the leader youwant to be within is the gift you give to
(42:41):
others.
Yeah,
that's what I think.
We have to love ourselves to be able to do thatand that is sometimes the toughest thing.
Absolutely.
So for leaders listening, and they're saying, Ithink we might have some of these issues,
Michelle, but I don't know where to start.
(43:03):
Tell them where they should and how you mightbe able to help them.
Sure.
I'm in Indiana and in The United States.
You could directly contact me on my cell phone,which is (260) 450-4202 or you could visit our
website and pick up contact information thereand so much more.
(43:27):
It's really been a labor of love for us.
We've posted a ton of great real life q and awith clients, newsletters there to sign up for.
That's gladioconsulting.com and that'sgladieuxlikex-rayconsulting.com.
I named my company twenty one years ago aftermy parents.
(43:50):
They're both deceased now, but they definitelyinstilled in me a lifelong love of learning,
and in their honor I will be pronouncing andspelling that last name forever Roxanne.
Oh, so we didn't name the company Training andCoaching Solutions.
We named it Gladio Consulting, but I would loveto hear from you.
(44:10):
And we do put a lot of good research, and wemake the newsletter fun.
And that's called Breakdown, named after afavorite Tom Petty song of mine.
Awesome.
So what am I taking away?
I think when I listened to Michelle, I realizedthat unfortunately, a lot of people still have
(44:31):
a definition of conflict as being somethingthat's out of control.
And once we start to realize that it's reallythe ingredients for enriching connection and
relationships, then we're going to be lookingat it in a different way.
So when there is difference, look at it as agrowth like this is the universe saying there's
(44:53):
something to be learned here.
I'm seeing it different.
Their lens is different.
Their values may be different.
Or something's blocking us, but it doesn't meanthat it has to be like a shutdown.
It's like being the Columbo in between the backand forth where you're thinking, What is it
that this person is trying to get across to methat I'm not getting?
(45:15):
And to ask more questions instead of going inour heads like we do and say, Ah, there we go
again.
Somebody's gonna tell me what to do orwhatever.
So to recognize that it's something that Ithink we're gonna learn till we are no longer
and we always can strive to get be better.
So thanks for hanging out again.
I'm launching a course on the ROR in June.
(45:39):
So I would love for you to sign up.
Go to roxandarhodge.com/quiz.
Fill out the quiz, and we'll get back to youwith next steps for the course.
Again, Michelle, thank you so much.
It's been always a pleasure.
And when I meet amazing people, think how luckyam I to be able to do what I do.
So thank you again, and everyone, take care,and we will see you soon.
(46:03):
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living withRoxanne, creating the space for positive,
healthy change.
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist,and coach.
To work with Roxanne, visitRoxanneDurhaj.com/blueprint.
We'll see you next time on Authentic Livingwith Roxanne.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.