March 6, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode, Roxanne Derhodge introduces Veronica Deraleau who shares her journey in financial coaching and her experience with paying off debt. Veronica explains the ARIA money model and its steps, emphasizing the importance of aligning spending with personal values and overcoming financial challenges. The discussion includes tailored strategies for diverse client needs, addressing objections, and examining critical expenses. They explore financial planning in various economic and household contexts, sharing client success stories and steps for achieving financial longevity. The episode concludes with an invitation to connect with Veronica, apply SMART goals in finance, and engage with the podcast.
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(00:01):
Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, aplace where we have conscious conversations
about things that really matter in our lives.
And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living withRoxanne, creating the space for positive,
(00:21):
healthy change.
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist,and coach.
To work with Roxanne, Visitroxannederhage.com/blueprint.
We'll see you next time on Authentic Livingwith Roxanne.
(01:07):
Hi, everyone.
It's, Roxanne Dorhoch.
Thanks for hanging out with us again this week.
Today, I have a special guest, and it'sVeronica Villarue.
And I did I hopefully, I said that properly,Veronica.
It's a beautiful last name, but one of thoseones that you really have to stress.
Mhmm.
So Veronica brings a pretty interestingbackground, and she is a a financial coach.
(01:32):
I think one that most of us need to haveconversations with.
And she's her background is you're you're anauthor.
So she's written a book, making money makingmoney is simple.
And she has in that book a model that we'llhopefully talk about.
It's called the Araya money ARIA or ARIA moneymethod.
ARIA.
(01:52):
ARIA money method.
That's my Caribbean accent coming in there.
So she's she's been an opera singer, afinancial technology manager, and she was also
in The US, arm she's a US army veteran.
Pretty amazing.
And she her book kind of looks at puttingdetails into action and the mindset that it
(02:13):
took to pay off a hundred thousand dollarsdebts in just three years on a on on average
salary.
So, Veronica, thanks so much for being herewith us today.
I appreciate you hosting me, and thank you,Roxanne.
So how does one kinda set off to become afinancial coach?
Was that something that you kinda decided thatyou wanted to do, a path that kind of led you
(02:38):
there?
Definitely, there was a path that led me there.
I have always had these dual corporate andcreative careers.
So I graduated back at during the greatrecession, and I started working for startups,
sort of one of the available jobs back then.
And I immediately loved it, and this was incommercial energy.
(02:59):
And I kinda bounced around different commercialbusiness industries, so from energy, real
estate, financial technology.
And but then I always also had the creativecareer as an opera singer.
And what happened with that is I was grad I hadgraduated with my MBA in 2017.
(03:21):
I was extremely motivated to pay off the debtbecause I was trying to combine lives with my
then boyfriend, now husband, and I just wantedto be able to pursue my dreams of singing.
And and I was also working in starting a careerin commercial real estate.
So I was super motivated and wanted to move onwith my life, and we wanted to buy a home
together and get married and all that goodstuff.
(03:43):
So I started working for this commercial realestate company.
And despite having business degrees, I had thistheoretical knowledge.
I had an economics degree from my undergrad,and I had this MBA with a focus in real estate
for my graduate degree.
And then once I started working in commercialreal estate, I quickly realized how unstrategic
(04:04):
I was in my own personal finances because I wasworking with these multimillion dollar property
budgets that were had very long term outlooks,and you could literally back into the numbers
to create these results.
And I was I just had this moment of, wow.
I've just been sort of managing paycheck topaycheck, living literally paycheck to paycheck
(04:26):
and not really having that long term mindsetwhen it came to my personal finances.
So once I was able to put those two thingstogether, I was able to quickly turn it around.
And I like I said, I pay I paid off a hundredlike you had mentioned, I paid off over
$100,000 of debt in just three years on entrylevel salary.
And then that brings me to 2020, COVID hits.
(04:49):
I have a great amount of creative friends thatlost their employment overnight with canceled
artistic contracts in the singing world, and Ijust felt very called to share my knowledge of
personal finances and my own personal journeywith that and be able to help, you know, at
first creative artists.
(05:09):
And I started back then just doing sort ofinformal webinars.
And then I that had been kind of in thebackground.
I then switched to financial technology thatyear and was working my way up in that company
and then revisited it in late twenty twentythree and started putting the building blocks
for the financial coaching business because itjust stuck with me for several years after
(05:33):
that.
So what were some of the basic things?
I I think a lot of people you're right.
You're a good example of somebody that havelearned all the relative or significant, I'm
gonna say, models and and things to to have abusiness background.
But like you said, when it came down to thespecifics for your own financial, you had
(05:54):
already thought about, like, a one, three, orfive, and twenty year plan.
So when you started to, I'm gonna say, rereverse engineer it into your own personal life
with that hundred thousand dollars debt, tellme what someone what was some of the basic
things that because I think I'm sure theaverage person listening is here saying, oh my
god.
Tell me what you did.
Absolutely.
(06:15):
I think that being super intentional was partof it.
And so my book, Making Money is Simple, isreally about the mindset that it took to get to
that point.
Just being very done and sick of my currentsituation and what being super motivated to
make it happen quickly and being willing tomake the trade offs that that required, that's
(06:36):
a huge part of it.
So I have my ARIA money model as a four stepprocess.
Each it's an acronym, and each letter has astep of the process for the mindset that is
required to make those kinds of changes andmake things happen quickly.
And then, really, the mechanics of it is justbeing super intentional, getting started with a
(06:57):
budget, spending every dollar with care, andbeing intentional about it because with without
having the plan, you just have this default andmoney can quickly go away.
So it can just get sucked up by mindlessimpulses.
Of course.
Because you kinda see that a nice purse or or,you know, there's a trip to New York City and
(07:20):
it's a 30% off and it wasn't on my bucket list,but now it becomes so it's you're right.
We flit around with money.
So tell us about the about the model.
Like you said, it's a mindset.
Right?
Like, at the end of the day, we're impulsiveand now everything is digitized.
And, you know, we we've lost that thatconnection to that real if we're gonna have to
take out $500 to pay for something, you kindalook at the money and it slows you down.
(07:44):
But now we've kind of completely lost that inevery sense of the word.
Right?
We've gone to etransfer for everything or,Venmo or everything is getting, paid by credit
card, those types of things.
So tell me a bit about the model and themindset because I think that, for me, I'm
curious to know what's involved in it.
Absolutely.
Okay.
(08:04):
So the ARIA money model is a for awaken, sobecoming aware of where is my money currently
going and how in the world did I get to theplace where I am today.
Because it that all what you said with the nothaving the tangible money to feel and feel like
you're giving it away is all by design.
(08:25):
Right?
They make it so easy to spend money.
That's not an accident.
And so a is just taking that first step andputting it down and putting it down on paper.
Like, where actually am I spending my money?
And does it have anything to do with what Iactually wanna be spending on and where I wanna
want my goals to take me?
(08:46):
So a for awaken.
Then r is for reframe.
So that's reframing your thoughts around money,really digging in, like, okay.
What is causing me to impulse spend in certainareas or not be spending it where I want to be
spending it, getting down to the root causes ofthat, or even just realizing where you might be
(09:07):
able to add friction where right now, forexample, not saving your payment instructions
to be able to make those purchases.
So, like, where can I add back in frictionwhere it's just too easy for me to be spending
money right now?
So reframing your thoughts around money,getting clear is the next step.
So I is for intention.
(09:28):
Getting clear around, okay.
I've uncovered where my money is going.
I'm at the point where I'm willing to reset thetrade offs that I'm making.
And then where is it that I actually want mymoney to be going?
Getting clear on those goals, getting clear onthe intentions and values behind where you want
your spending to be.
And then the last a is for taking action.
(09:49):
So all of that money mindset stuff needs tohappen first.
Otherwise, you're constantly going to befighting against yourself if you're just not
mentally prepared to make those trade offs.
Which is tough.
Right?
Because if you think about the world that welive in, it's so consumer driven.
It's about, you know, kind of the the new thenew iPhone 17 or the, you know, or when you
(10:16):
think of social media and what people put outthere, it's the new bubble of some sort, be it
a new car or, oh, somebody's in Paris orthey're in the they're in the Hamptons or
they're skiing in Quebec.
Like, so we're always lost in what's being putin front of us.
And so much of that we're ingesting.
It's like a it's like a free for all.
(10:36):
And, like, you said something when we talked alittle bit about connection and authenticity
that a lot of people get overridden by theirvalues.
So I want you to talk a little bit about whatyou do with people when you work with them to
help them really come to terms with my actionsare out actually out of alignment or I get
(10:58):
caught up by things and what kind of simplethings they have to start doing to make that
shift because that can't be easy.
Yeah.
Definitely not.
I think that some people, they'd be surprisedhow quickly they can turn it around if they
just devoted a year to cleaning up theirfinances.
It really is about the delayed gratification.
(11:20):
So it's I'm not telling them to do it forever.
I'm just saying, hey, guys.
There's limited resources here.
How do we wanna best utilize those resources?
And it's it there will be an element ofsacrifice because we got here by default
somehow.
But it doesn't have to be forever.
It'll be for this time frame.
And it looking back, you'll be where youactually wanna be.
(11:41):
You'll actually have something to show for allof your hard work.
When we go through the values exercise, oftenpeople, they don't they're not telling me that
they want a material things.
They're telling me they want these biggermilestones to look back on or they want family
experiences.
I think, universally, these are true, but theyjust sort of get so much bombardment from
(12:05):
social media, like you say, and I talk aboutthat in the book.
I grew up pre social media, which I think was agreat benefit because there I didn't have the
comparison trap.
And so it is constantly in our faces these daysand can quickly lead us astray from those
goals.
And yeah.
So I think it's being super clear of, like,where are my dollars going now?
(12:28):
What actually are my values?
How do we get those lined up?
And just realizing it's not gonna be foreverthat we have to do this, but if we have been
going on for many years down a non like a,sorry, unproductive path, it might there might
be some sacrifice that's required upfront tosort of course correct.
(12:51):
Which is hard.
Right?
Because a lot of people say, well, I wanna doit, but now you're telling me I have to take
this path that's gonna take me off.
Like, a year is not in the big scheme ofthings, it's not that much.
But people are so accustomed to just kindarunning their lives from the unconscious until
something becomes critical to your point.
Right?
I'm having to save for, two children'seducation, but I'd love to go on those trips
(13:15):
now.
I'd like a lot of you hear a lot of people, andthey try to do it all.
And you and really at the end of the day, toyour point, you can only do some things you
have to delay even though it's a oh, I'd loveto have that yesterday.
But to already if it's peace of mind, like yousaid, like or, like you said, experiences with
with family or milestones, those types ofthings, those aren't actual things.
(13:40):
That's not the nice watch or that's not the thebrand new suit for, you know, for the fall
twenty five.
That's more just about the feeling that theperson's trying to get, but most people aren't
stopping to think about that until or do a lotof people come forward before they start to
realize they're in trouble.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
That's right.
(14:01):
It is tough.
That's that is what I'm seeing a lot of is,like, very tough situations with inflation and
people sort of getting started very late whenthey have a crisis situation happening, or
they're just one of the first conversations Ihave during discovery calls is how long have
(14:22):
you been dealing with the situation and kind oftrying to put a cost around that so that they
can actually see how much they've lost already
Mhmm.
Sort of feel that a little more tangibly.
Okay.
Okay.
And do you find that wakes people up or theywhat kind of people would come to you and
actually take your guidance and which ones arelike, Veronica, this is all well and good, but
(14:44):
I think I'll have to maybe call you back in sixmonths.
Like, what's the motivation generally forpeople to make changes around money?
Is it critical often or if people are coming toyou sooner before it gets too critical?
Yeah.
I have a
few different types of client of prospects andclients that come to me.
Clients that I love to work with are those thathave seen recent increase in income, but maybe
(15:06):
they're not seeing progress on debt, saving,and investing kind of thing.
So, really, they have the resources.
It might be very new to them.
For example, someone who was working to becomea doctor, and they've only known sort of being
lower income, but now they have a lot of money.
But what the heck do I do with it?
That's a good problem to have.
(15:26):
So I'd love working with those clients becausethey have the resources available to them.
It's just being strategic and realizing like,hey.
I have an opportunity here to really make somepositive changes and some leaps in progress.
So I please give me some guidance there.
So that's always a wonderful situation to bein.
And then, of course, there are those who dofind themselves in more of a crisis situation.
(15:51):
So I think we really have to connect with thosevalues.
If they are in, like, a sandwich generationtype situation where they're caring for elderly
and they have young children, if they're supermotivated because they have young children that
depend on them, they could be ready to go mindmentally to make drastic changes and make
progress.
(16:12):
We also sometimes I've had clients that comethrough and they are suffering from divorces
that, you know, sort of, like, in theirforties.
Maybe they're like, I have to do somethingright now because I'm running out of time.
And then, of course, the older you get, it'smore pressing.
So into your fifties and even sixties, they'rejust, wow.
(16:33):
I I really need to make something happen.
And so that can be a source of motivation aswell.
It's just I have a limited amount of workingyears, and I really wanna make a change.
So at that point, you're re I guess, you're rethe older the person is, you have less time to
work with it.
So so you're really there'd be differentstrategies for those different types of client.
(16:55):
I would think they the newly new doctor mighthave a bit of debt, but he or she has a lot of
income, so you could that probably would be aclear path.
The young parents, they know they probablyhave, say, say, sixteen years to plan for
education and those types of things.
But the older person, they have less time tillretirement.
Is it that you have to do a more aggressivethings for the older someone gets, or it just
(17:17):
depends on the individual cases?
It does depend on the the individual cases, butI would say, generally, yes.
That's true.
Of course, if you have less time, there's lessroom for investing growth and compounding
growth naturally.
And so it's I and then, of course, the olderyou get, the less able you are to work a
second, third job.
(17:38):
It just gets very taxing.
And so then what is the most actionable thingis cutting.
Unless there are certain specific situations,like, I've had people recently that I've talked
to where they are taking care of an elderlyparent, and so maybe you explore something with
being compensated for that.
There's different Medicaid programs for, like,family caregivers or something like that.
(17:59):
So it depends on the individual situation, but,of course, generally, the older you get, the
less time there just is for natural financialcompounding to occur.
What are some of the common blocks or,objections that you get from people that about
making change?
What what what are some of the things that yougo, oh, boy.
I've heard this, so often.
(18:21):
What what are some of the things that youpeople should say to you?
Yeah.
For me, it's great being having, like, thatobjective coach because I ask them to fill out
a budget to start and, like, let's look at thiswithout emotion or try to pull the emotion
away.
And for me, it really is black and white.
Like, there's income and there's expenses.
(18:41):
And if they're upside down, something needs tochange.
Otherwise, they're going to just continue downthis path that's not great.
I think, really, it's tough in the Westernworld because there are so many things that are
taken for granted as baseline defaultsoperating costs.
In my book and I'm not sure how into detail Igo with what we cut, but in my book, I in the
(19:05):
first chapter, we talk about my husband and Ilived for a year in an apartment and we wanted
to save for a house and we had no furniture inthere.
We didn't even have Internet in there.
I would go down the street and use theStarbucks Internet.
I would walk a mile down the street.
So things that people really take for granted,we looked at every cost and figure it out
(19:26):
because we were just super motivated to make ithappen quickly.
So things that today are taken for granted as Ineed this thing, I don't think our actual needs
sometimes, but that is a very hard message toget across.
Sometimes I'm like, hey.
Do you have things that you could sell?
That's really tough, like, letting go of thingsthat
(19:48):
you Yeah.
And then then you're thinking, what do you whatdo you want me to sell?
You have to but, really, if you're thatpointed, I guess there's probably a lot of
things around your home or things you're notusing and stuff like that, but then you think,
would it make a difference?
But I guess, like you said, everything becomescumulative with an actual plan.
Yes.
For sure.
(20:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, look, really examining every every expensecritically and, like, is this actually am I
gonna die by not having this temporarily?
Mhmm.
Sometimes that's what it comes down to.
If you actually want to dig out from a bighole, sometimes that's what's what is required.
Or, you know, are you on the flip side, are youwilling to take on more work?
(20:31):
Are you willing to take on a second jobtemporarily?
And, you know, the older you get, like, theless able Hey.
You just don't have the energy.
You don't have the energy or when you're inyour twenties or thirties and you're, like,
thinking working the second or third job.
Yeah.
No big deal.
But when you start to get older, definitelyless time plus less energy or energy that you
might have, you might wanna spend it ondifferent things.
(20:54):
Mhmm.
I often see sorry.
One more thing that just occurred to me is,like, relationships.
A lot of the a lot of times, I'm I've beenseeing a lot in the market, like, not examining
all resources from all parties involved inrelationships when the relationships are
communication is not great and they're notusing all resources available, meaning both
(21:14):
incomes and cumulative expenses, so that candefinitely work against them.
And then also multigenerational households.
If someone is older but they have, like, adultschildren and they're not considering all of the
available resources that can often get, youknow, unbalanced as far as the older person is
(21:35):
taking on the majority of the cost, but they'rethe one with less years.
So I'm seeing a lot of that too.
So let's talk a little bit about, I think,what's kind of pressing is the economic times.
Are you finding that a lot of people are arestarting to think about it?
Seriously, like, in this time, like, we knowthat there's a lot of things happening,
obviously, in your company in your country,it's happening in our country.
(21:58):
There's things to come.
Do you find that a lot of people are comingforward starting to think about planning?
Should our economies see a bit of a slump?
I think so.
I I it's hard to untangle whether I I think, ofcourse, that has been in the last few years
with even just since COVID really, disrupted alot of the bigger macroeconomic trends.
(22:22):
I think that has been true.
A lot of the, like, mass layoffs that arehappening, I think that is causing stress and
then, of course, the inflation.
Also, though, just the presence of social mediaand having it more in your face, I think, like,
that can't be untangled from that as well.
Some people have talked to me about how, wow.
I didn't I actually didn't realize how far offI was until I got on social media and saw, oh
(22:47):
my gosh.
There's people that think about this all thetime and are so far ahead of me.
So there's a a a little bit of that as well.
So when you coach someone and you've kindawhittled down what their values are, like we
talked about, and wanting to have that bestlife possible.
And let's say someone's really had to work hardand they're actually starting to see the
(23:09):
changes.
What how do you how do you see what kind ofthings do you see with people like that that
have made sometimes drastic?
Maybe you have to work through things with thempulling and dragging them, but they eventually
get there.
And they start to see glimmers of that.
What what experiences can you maybe give us anexample of something that you've experienced
with someone you've worked with and kind of howit's played out?
(23:32):
Definitely.
Yeah.
So I think one of that is really the beautifulthing that, like, is so in invigorating when I
do coaching is you'll just see those their eyeslight up like, oh my gosh.
I'm gonna own something for the first time.
Like, I've always just been in this debt cycleand never owned anything and just leased and
financed things.
And, oh my god.
I'm gonna own something for the first time.
(23:53):
Or, oh my god.
I'm I'm gonna pay off all my debt.
This is insane.
I've never not had debt in my adult life.
Or, oh my gosh.
I can see the few like, a positive vision forthe future because we've worked through if we
do, you know, invest this amount over thiscourse of this period of years, it's going to
turn into this.
And now I can feel financially secure, and Ifeel I just feel safe, and I feel, like, cared
(24:19):
for.
So, yeah, there's, like, the you see therelief, the unburdening, the peace.
Mhmm.
And, yeah, the feeling of security is reallybeautiful.
Nice.
A nice feeling.
And then then, of course, when you see themactually making some tough decisions and
following through with it, I'm sure at timespeople say I can't do this, but when they
(24:43):
actually do, it must be refreshing.
So in in your let's say people are listeningand they're making good money, but they're on
that treadmill, like you said, the day in, dayout, accepting that we all we all have a
certain amount of debt or, yeah, it's noteverybody's in the same boat.
But but they know they have to do something.
What are some, maybe two or three steps,Veronica, that you think you could share with
(25:07):
people for them if they're starting to think,I've been doing this for a long time and, yeah,
I don't seem to be getting any further along.
What what kind of things could should peopleconsider?
Yeah.
I think there's simple tactical things that canbe done.
So starting to utilize a budget, so figuringout where is my money going, where do I want it
to be going, going through the steps likesaving up for an emergency fund, paying off
(25:31):
your debts, just freeing up more cash flow.
I think one thing that I quickly realized whenI was paying off my debt was the time factor,
so setting time bound goals.
Okay.
I wanna be able to buy a home.
Okay.
When?
And then how much will that require?
Do is that what I do I have those resourcesavailable to me?
(25:54):
You either have to increase income, decreaseexpenses, or change the time horizon.
Variables that can be tweaked.
So I think setting those time bound goals andbeing super specific about the goal.
Like, where is it gonna be?
What state?
What's the median?
Just to use that buying a home example.
But, yes, very helpful setting very specificand time bound goals and fleshing that out.
(26:20):
And then not feeling you like, you have to doit alone.
So either getting the the help of a financialcoach if you're needing to, like, rewire your
financial behaviors, or if you'd like you said,you are at the point where you do have money,
like seeing a financial advisor and puttingyour money to best use.
So those three things, budgeting, setting smartgoals, smart time bound goals, and getting not
(26:46):
feeling like you have to do it alone.
Yeah.
And and that's the thing because you might setit and you don't have a time specific, I wanna
buy or I wanna be able to know that most of my,you know, child's education is is kind of set
for, but maybe not a % by what time.
Right?
Because you do get lost when you don't do, andthat's the smart goals.
(27:07):
Right?
Yeah.
I know it's important.
I know there's actionable steps, but if I'mkinda leaving it vague, it becomes a thing I
should be doing at some point, but then we losekind of track of what steps or what tactical
things we have to do kinda month to month weekto week, month to even day to day, right, like,
in your decision making around financials.
Veronica, this has been an amazingconversation.
(27:28):
I'm learning some things that I have to thinkabout based on where I am at in my career as
well and kind of the things that I want as Ikind of get closer to 60.
For people that are wanting to to learn moreabout you or to reach out or to get a copy of
the book, where can they get a hold of you?
Yes.
So you can find me and follow me on Instagramat making money is simple.
(27:51):
You can visit my website, join my mailing list,and find the the link to book to grab a a copy
of my book, Making Money is Simple.
And it's allmakingmoneyissimple.com, and thebook is also available on Amazon.
Okay.
Fantastic.
And we'll make sure that's in the show notes.
So what am I walking away with?
I'm thinking I talk a lot about authenticityand relationships, and I think it starts about
(28:13):
authenticity in reference to yourself.
Right?
Like, what is it that I really value and howare my actions in alignment with what I want?
And don't think that I think a lot of times weget driven by external forces and then you're
you end up with maybe some things or doingthings and you realize, oh, then now that's
gone or it's fleeting or it's not thatimportant.
(28:34):
So taking the time, Veronica saying, to be tojust really kind of be aware what am I actually
doing and then setting the intention with atimeline in mind.
I I love that.
I've never thought about smart in reference tomoney, but that why not?
We do it with everything else.
Think about it in reference to your financiallife.
So for everyone, if you're wanting to know howauthentically connected you are in
(28:56):
relationships, you can go toroxandrehodge.com/quiz, do a the mini quiz, and
we'll send you a report, and we can get on adiscovery call to chat further.
Again, Veronica, thanks so much for your time.
And for everyone, thanks for hanging out withus again, and we'll chat with you again next
week.
Take care.
Bye bye.
Thank you.
Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, aplace where we have conscious conversations
about things that really matter in our lives.
And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living withRoxanne, creating the space for positive,
(00:21):
healthy change.
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist,and coach.
To work with Roxanne, Visitroxannederhage.com/blueprint.
We'll see you next time on Authentic Livingwith Roxanne.
(01:07):
Hi, everyone.
It's, Roxanne Dorhoch.
Thanks for hanging out with us again this week.
Today, I have a special guest, and it'sVeronica Villarue.
And I did I hopefully, I said that properly,Veronica.
It's a beautiful last name, but one of thoseones that you really have to stress.
Mhmm.
So Veronica brings a pretty interestingbackground, and she is a a financial coach.
(01:32):
I think one that most of us need to haveconversations with.
And she's her background is you're you're anauthor.
So she's written a book, making money makingmoney is simple.
And she has in that book a model that we'llhopefully talk about.
It's called the Araya money ARIA or ARIA moneymethod.
ARIA.
(01:52):
ARIA money method.
That's my Caribbean accent coming in there.
So she's she's been an opera singer, afinancial technology manager, and she was also
in The US, arm she's a US army veteran.
Pretty amazing.
And she her book kind of looks at puttingdetails into action and the mindset that it
(02:13):
took to pay off a hundred thousand dollarsdebts in just three years on a on on average
salary.
So, Veronica, thanks so much for being herewith us today.
I appreciate you hosting me, and thank you,Roxanne.
So how does one kinda set off to become afinancial coach?
Was that something that you kinda decided thatyou wanted to do, a path that kind of led you
(02:38):
there?
Definitely, there was a path that led me there.
I have always had these dual corporate andcreative careers.
So I graduated back at during the greatrecession, and I started working for startups,
sort of one of the available jobs back then.
And I immediately loved it, and this was incommercial energy.
(02:59):
And I kinda bounced around different commercialbusiness industries, so from energy, real
estate, financial technology.
And but then I always also had the creativecareer as an opera singer.
And what happened with that is I was grad I hadgraduated with my MBA in 2017.
(03:21):
I was extremely motivated to pay off the debtbecause I was trying to combine lives with my
then boyfriend, now husband, and I just wantedto be able to pursue my dreams of singing.
And and I was also working in starting a careerin commercial real estate.
So I was super motivated and wanted to move onwith my life, and we wanted to buy a home
together and get married and all that goodstuff.
(03:43):
So I started working for this commercial realestate company.
And despite having business degrees, I had thistheoretical knowledge.
I had an economics degree from my undergrad,and I had this MBA with a focus in real estate
for my graduate degree.
And then once I started working in commercialreal estate, I quickly realized how unstrategic
(04:04):
I was in my own personal finances because I wasworking with these multimillion dollar property
budgets that were had very long term outlooks,and you could literally back into the numbers
to create these results.
And I was I just had this moment of, wow.
I've just been sort of managing paycheck topaycheck, living literally paycheck to paycheck
(04:26):
and not really having that long term mindsetwhen it came to my personal finances.
So once I was able to put those two thingstogether, I was able to quickly turn it around.
And I like I said, I pay I paid off a hundredlike you had mentioned, I paid off over
$100,000 of debt in just three years on entrylevel salary.
And then that brings me to 2020, COVID hits.
(04:49):
I have a great amount of creative friends thatlost their employment overnight with canceled
artistic contracts in the singing world, and Ijust felt very called to share my knowledge of
personal finances and my own personal journeywith that and be able to help, you know, at
first creative artists.
(05:09):
And I started back then just doing sort ofinformal webinars.
And then I that had been kind of in thebackground.
I then switched to financial technology thatyear and was working my way up in that company
and then revisited it in late twenty twentythree and started putting the building blocks
for the financial coaching business because itjust stuck with me for several years after
(05:33):
that.
So what were some of the basic things?
I I think a lot of people you're right.
You're a good example of somebody that havelearned all the relative or significant, I'm
gonna say, models and and things to to have abusiness background.
But like you said, when it came down to thespecifics for your own financial, you had
(05:54):
already thought about, like, a one, three, orfive, and twenty year plan.
So when you started to, I'm gonna say, rereverse engineer it into your own personal life
with that hundred thousand dollars debt, tellme what someone what was some of the basic
things that because I think I'm sure theaverage person listening is here saying, oh my
god.
Tell me what you did.
Absolutely.
(06:15):
I think that being super intentional was partof it.
And so my book, Making Money is Simple, isreally about the mindset that it took to get to
that point.
Just being very done and sick of my currentsituation and what being super motivated to
make it happen quickly and being willing tomake the trade offs that that required, that's
(06:36):
a huge part of it.
So I have my ARIA money model as a four stepprocess.
Each it's an acronym, and each letter has astep of the process for the mindset that is
required to make those kinds of changes andmake things happen quickly.
And then, really, the mechanics of it is justbeing super intentional, getting started with a
(06:57):
budget, spending every dollar with care, andbeing intentional about it because with without
having the plan, you just have this default andmoney can quickly go away.
So it can just get sucked up by mindlessimpulses.
Of course.
Because you kinda see that a nice purse or or,you know, there's a trip to New York City and
(07:20):
it's a 30% off and it wasn't on my bucket list,but now it becomes so it's you're right.
We flit around with money.
So tell us about the about the model.
Like you said, it's a mindset.
Right?
Like, at the end of the day, we're impulsiveand now everything is digitized.
And, you know, we we've lost that thatconnection to that real if we're gonna have to
take out $500 to pay for something, you kindalook at the money and it slows you down.
(07:44):
But now we've kind of completely lost that inevery sense of the word.
Right?
We've gone to etransfer for everything or,Venmo or everything is getting, paid by credit
card, those types of things.
So tell me a bit about the model and themindset because I think that, for me, I'm
curious to know what's involved in it.
Absolutely.
Okay.
(08:04):
So the ARIA money model is a for awaken, sobecoming aware of where is my money currently
going and how in the world did I get to theplace where I am today.
Because it that all what you said with the nothaving the tangible money to feel and feel like
you're giving it away is all by design.
(08:25):
Right?
They make it so easy to spend money.
That's not an accident.
And so a is just taking that first step andputting it down and putting it down on paper.
Like, where actually am I spending my money?
And does it have anything to do with what Iactually wanna be spending on and where I wanna
want my goals to take me?
(08:46):
So a for awaken.
Then r is for reframe.
So that's reframing your thoughts around money,really digging in, like, okay.
What is causing me to impulse spend in certainareas or not be spending it where I want to be
spending it, getting down to the root causes ofthat, or even just realizing where you might be
(09:07):
able to add friction where right now, forexample, not saving your payment instructions
to be able to make those purchases.
So, like, where can I add back in frictionwhere it's just too easy for me to be spending
money right now?
So reframing your thoughts around money,getting clear is the next step.
So I is for intention.
(09:28):
Getting clear around, okay.
I've uncovered where my money is going.
I'm at the point where I'm willing to reset thetrade offs that I'm making.
And then where is it that I actually want mymoney to be going?
Getting clear on those goals, getting clear onthe intentions and values behind where you want
your spending to be.
And then the last a is for taking action.
(09:49):
So all of that money mindset stuff needs tohappen first.
Otherwise, you're constantly going to befighting against yourself if you're just not
mentally prepared to make those trade offs.
Which is tough.
Right?
Because if you think about the world that welive in, it's so consumer driven.
It's about, you know, kind of the the new thenew iPhone 17 or the, you know, or when you
(10:16):
think of social media and what people put outthere, it's the new bubble of some sort, be it
a new car or, oh, somebody's in Paris orthey're in the they're in the Hamptons or
they're skiing in Quebec.
Like, so we're always lost in what's being putin front of us.
And so much of that we're ingesting.
It's like a it's like a free for all.
(10:36):
And, like, you said something when we talked alittle bit about connection and authenticity
that a lot of people get overridden by theirvalues.
So I want you to talk a little bit about whatyou do with people when you work with them to
help them really come to terms with my actionsare out actually out of alignment or I get
(10:58):
caught up by things and what kind of simplethings they have to start doing to make that
shift because that can't be easy.
Yeah.
Definitely not.
I think that some people, they'd be surprisedhow quickly they can turn it around if they
just devoted a year to cleaning up theirfinances.
It really is about the delayed gratification.
(11:20):
So it's I'm not telling them to do it forever.
I'm just saying, hey, guys.
There's limited resources here.
How do we wanna best utilize those resources?
And it's it there will be an element ofsacrifice because we got here by default
somehow.
But it doesn't have to be forever.
It'll be for this time frame.
And it looking back, you'll be where youactually wanna be.
(11:41):
You'll actually have something to show for allof your hard work.
When we go through the values exercise, oftenpeople, they don't they're not telling me that
they want a material things.
They're telling me they want these biggermilestones to look back on or they want family
experiences.
I think, universally, these are true, but theyjust sort of get so much bombardment from
(12:05):
social media, like you say, and I talk aboutthat in the book.
I grew up pre social media, which I think was agreat benefit because there I didn't have the
comparison trap.
And so it is constantly in our faces these daysand can quickly lead us astray from those
goals.
And yeah.
So I think it's being super clear of, like,where are my dollars going now?
(12:28):
What actually are my values?
How do we get those lined up?
And just realizing it's not gonna be foreverthat we have to do this, but if we have been
going on for many years down a non like a,sorry, unproductive path, it might there might
be some sacrifice that's required upfront tosort of course correct.
(12:51):
Which is hard.
Right?
Because a lot of people say, well, I wanna doit, but now you're telling me I have to take
this path that's gonna take me off.
Like, a year is not in the big scheme ofthings, it's not that much.
But people are so accustomed to just kindarunning their lives from the unconscious until
something becomes critical to your point.
Right?
I'm having to save for, two children'seducation, but I'd love to go on those trips
(13:15):
now.
I'd like a lot of you hear a lot of people, andthey try to do it all.
And you and really at the end of the day, toyour point, you can only do some things you
have to delay even though it's a oh, I'd loveto have that yesterday.
But to already if it's peace of mind, like yousaid, like or, like you said, experiences with
with family or milestones, those types ofthings, those aren't actual things.
(13:40):
That's not the nice watch or that's not the thebrand new suit for, you know, for the fall
twenty five.
That's more just about the feeling that theperson's trying to get, but most people aren't
stopping to think about that until or do a lotof people come forward before they start to
realize they're in trouble.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
That's right.
(14:01):
It is tough.
That's that is what I'm seeing a lot of is,like, very tough situations with inflation and
people sort of getting started very late whenthey have a crisis situation happening, or
they're just one of the first conversations Ihave during discovery calls is how long have
(14:22):
you been dealing with the situation and kind oftrying to put a cost around that so that they
can actually see how much they've lost already
Mhmm.
Sort of feel that a little more tangibly.
Okay.
Okay.
And do you find that wakes people up or theywhat kind of people would come to you and
actually take your guidance and which ones arelike, Veronica, this is all well and good, but
(14:44):
I think I'll have to maybe call you back in sixmonths.
Like, what's the motivation generally forpeople to make changes around money?
Is it critical often or if people are coming toyou sooner before it gets too critical?
Yeah.
I have a
few different types of client of prospects andclients that come to me.
Clients that I love to work with are those thathave seen recent increase in income, but maybe
(15:06):
they're not seeing progress on debt, saving,and investing kind of thing.
So, really, they have the resources.
It might be very new to them.
For example, someone who was working to becomea doctor, and they've only known sort of being
lower income, but now they have a lot of money.
But what the heck do I do with it?
That's a good problem to have.
(15:26):
So I'd love working with those clients becausethey have the resources available to them.
It's just being strategic and realizing like,hey.
I have an opportunity here to really make somepositive changes and some leaps in progress.
So I please give me some guidance there.
So that's always a wonderful situation to bein.
And then, of course, there are those who dofind themselves in more of a crisis situation.
(15:51):
So I think we really have to connect with thosevalues.
If they are in, like, a sandwich generationtype situation where they're caring for elderly
and they have young children, if they're supermotivated because they have young children that
depend on them, they could be ready to go mindmentally to make drastic changes and make
progress.
(16:12):
We also sometimes I've had clients that comethrough and they are suffering from divorces
that, you know, sort of, like, in theirforties.
Maybe they're like, I have to do somethingright now because I'm running out of time.
And then, of course, the older you get, it'smore pressing.
So into your fifties and even sixties, they'rejust, wow.
(16:33):
I I really need to make something happen.
And so that can be a source of motivation aswell.
It's just I have a limited amount of workingyears, and I really wanna make a change.
So at that point, you're re I guess, you're rethe older the person is, you have less time to
work with it.
So so you're really there'd be differentstrategies for those different types of client.
(16:55):
I would think they the newly new doctor mighthave a bit of debt, but he or she has a lot of
income, so you could that probably would be aclear path.
The young parents, they know they probablyhave, say, say, sixteen years to plan for
education and those types of things.
But the older person, they have less time tillretirement.
Is it that you have to do a more aggressivethings for the older someone gets, or it just
(17:17):
depends on the individual cases?
It does depend on the the individual cases, butI would say, generally, yes.
That's true.
Of course, if you have less time, there's lessroom for investing growth and compounding
growth naturally.
And so it's I and then, of course, the olderyou get, the less able you are to work a
second, third job.
(17:38):
It just gets very taxing.
And so then what is the most actionable thingis cutting.
Unless there are certain specific situations,like, I've had people recently that I've talked
to where they are taking care of an elderlyparent, and so maybe you explore something with
being compensated for that.
There's different Medicaid programs for, like,family caregivers or something like that.
(17:59):
So it depends on the individual situation, but,of course, generally, the older you get, the
less time there just is for natural financialcompounding to occur.
What are some of the common blocks or,objections that you get from people that about
making change?
What what what are some of the things that yougo, oh, boy.
I've heard this, so often.
(18:21):
What what are some of the things that youpeople should say to you?
Yeah.
For me, it's great being having, like, thatobjective coach because I ask them to fill out
a budget to start and, like, let's look at thiswithout emotion or try to pull the emotion
away.
And for me, it really is black and white.
Like, there's income and there's expenses.
(18:41):
And if they're upside down, something needs tochange.
Otherwise, they're going to just continue downthis path that's not great.
I think, really, it's tough in the Westernworld because there are so many things that are
taken for granted as baseline defaultsoperating costs.
In my book and I'm not sure how into detail Igo with what we cut, but in my book, I in the
(19:05):
first chapter, we talk about my husband and Ilived for a year in an apartment and we wanted
to save for a house and we had no furniture inthere.
We didn't even have Internet in there.
I would go down the street and use theStarbucks Internet.
I would walk a mile down the street.
So things that people really take for granted,we looked at every cost and figure it out
(19:26):
because we were just super motivated to make ithappen quickly.
So things that today are taken for granted as Ineed this thing, I don't think our actual needs
sometimes, but that is a very hard message toget across.
Sometimes I'm like, hey.
Do you have things that you could sell?
That's really tough, like, letting go of thingsthat
(19:48):
you Yeah.
And then then you're thinking, what do you whatdo you want me to sell?
You have to but, really, if you're thatpointed, I guess there's probably a lot of
things around your home or things you're notusing and stuff like that, but then you think,
would it make a difference?
But I guess, like you said, everything becomescumulative with an actual plan.
Yes.
For sure.
(20:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, look, really examining every every expensecritically and, like, is this actually am I
gonna die by not having this temporarily?
Mhmm.
Sometimes that's what it comes down to.
If you actually want to dig out from a bighole, sometimes that's what's what is required.
Or, you know, are you on the flip side, are youwilling to take on more work?
(20:31):
Are you willing to take on a second jobtemporarily?
And, you know, the older you get, like, theless able Hey.
You just don't have the energy.
You don't have the energy or when you're inyour twenties or thirties and you're, like,
thinking working the second or third job.
Yeah.
No big deal.
But when you start to get older, definitelyless time plus less energy or energy that you
might have, you might wanna spend it ondifferent things.
(20:54):
Mhmm.
I often see sorry.
One more thing that just occurred to me is,like, relationships.
A lot of the a lot of times, I'm I've beenseeing a lot in the market, like, not examining
all resources from all parties involved inrelationships when the relationships are
communication is not great and they're notusing all resources available, meaning both
(21:14):
incomes and cumulative expenses, so that candefinitely work against them.
And then also multigenerational households.
If someone is older but they have, like, adultschildren and they're not considering all of the
available resources that can often get, youknow, unbalanced as far as the older person is
(21:35):
taking on the majority of the cost, but they'rethe one with less years.
So I'm seeing a lot of that too.
So let's talk a little bit about, I think,what's kind of pressing is the economic times.
Are you finding that a lot of people are arestarting to think about it?
Seriously, like, in this time, like, we knowthat there's a lot of things happening,
obviously, in your company in your country,it's happening in our country.
(21:58):
There's things to come.
Do you find that a lot of people are comingforward starting to think about planning?
Should our economies see a bit of a slump?
I think so.
I I it's hard to untangle whether I I think, ofcourse, that has been in the last few years
with even just since COVID really, disrupted alot of the bigger macroeconomic trends.
(22:22):
I think that has been true.
A lot of the, like, mass layoffs that arehappening, I think that is causing stress and
then, of course, the inflation.
Also, though, just the presence of social mediaand having it more in your face, I think, like,
that can't be untangled from that as well.
Some people have talked to me about how, wow.
I didn't I actually didn't realize how far offI was until I got on social media and saw, oh
(22:47):
my gosh.
There's people that think about this all thetime and are so far ahead of me.
So there's a a a little bit of that as well.
So when you coach someone and you've kindawhittled down what their values are, like we
talked about, and wanting to have that bestlife possible.
And let's say someone's really had to work hardand they're actually starting to see the
(23:09):
changes.
What how do you how do you see what kind ofthings do you see with people like that that
have made sometimes drastic?
Maybe you have to work through things with thempulling and dragging them, but they eventually
get there.
And they start to see glimmers of that.
What what experiences can you maybe give us anexample of something that you've experienced
with someone you've worked with and kind of howit's played out?
(23:32):
Definitely.
Yeah.
So I think one of that is really the beautifulthing that, like, is so in invigorating when I
do coaching is you'll just see those their eyeslight up like, oh my gosh.
I'm gonna own something for the first time.
Like, I've always just been in this debt cycleand never owned anything and just leased and
financed things.
And, oh my god.
I'm gonna own something for the first time.
(23:53):
Or, oh my god.
I'm I'm gonna pay off all my debt.
This is insane.
I've never not had debt in my adult life.
Or, oh my gosh.
I can see the few like, a positive vision forthe future because we've worked through if we
do, you know, invest this amount over thiscourse of this period of years, it's going to
turn into this.
And now I can feel financially secure, and Ifeel I just feel safe, and I feel, like, cared
(24:19):
for.
So, yeah, there's, like, the you see therelief, the unburdening, the peace.
Mhmm.
And, yeah, the feeling of security is reallybeautiful.
Nice.
A nice feeling.
And then then, of course, when you see themactually making some tough decisions and
following through with it, I'm sure at timespeople say I can't do this, but when they
(24:43):
actually do, it must be refreshing.
So in in your let's say people are listeningand they're making good money, but they're on
that treadmill, like you said, the day in, dayout, accepting that we all we all have a
certain amount of debt or, yeah, it's noteverybody's in the same boat.
But but they know they have to do something.
What are some, maybe two or three steps,Veronica, that you think you could share with
(25:07):
people for them if they're starting to think,I've been doing this for a long time and, yeah,
I don't seem to be getting any further along.
What what kind of things could should peopleconsider?
Yeah.
I think there's simple tactical things that canbe done.
So starting to utilize a budget, so figuringout where is my money going, where do I want it
to be going, going through the steps likesaving up for an emergency fund, paying off
(25:31):
your debts, just freeing up more cash flow.
I think one thing that I quickly realized whenI was paying off my debt was the time factor,
so setting time bound goals.
Okay.
I wanna be able to buy a home.
Okay.
When?
And then how much will that require?
Do is that what I do I have those resourcesavailable to me?
(25:54):
You either have to increase income, decreaseexpenses, or change the time horizon.
Variables that can be tweaked.
So I think setting those time bound goals andbeing super specific about the goal.
Like, where is it gonna be?
What state?
What's the median?
Just to use that buying a home example.
But, yes, very helpful setting very specificand time bound goals and fleshing that out.
(26:20):
And then not feeling you like, you have to doit alone.
So either getting the the help of a financialcoach if you're needing to, like, rewire your
financial behaviors, or if you'd like you said,you are at the point where you do have money,
like seeing a financial advisor and puttingyour money to best use.
So those three things, budgeting, setting smartgoals, smart time bound goals, and getting not
(26:46):
feeling like you have to do it alone.
Yeah.
And and that's the thing because you might setit and you don't have a time specific, I wanna
buy or I wanna be able to know that most of my,you know, child's education is is kind of set
for, but maybe not a % by what time.
Right?
Because you do get lost when you don't do, andthat's the smart goals.
(27:07):
Right?
Yeah.
I know it's important.
I know there's actionable steps, but if I'mkinda leaving it vague, it becomes a thing I
should be doing at some point, but then we losekind of track of what steps or what tactical
things we have to do kinda month to month weekto week, month to even day to day, right, like,
in your decision making around financials.
Veronica, this has been an amazingconversation.
(27:28):
I'm learning some things that I have to thinkabout based on where I am at in my career as
well and kind of the things that I want as Ikind of get closer to 60.
For people that are wanting to to learn moreabout you or to reach out or to get a copy of
the book, where can they get a hold of you?
Yes.
So you can find me and follow me on Instagramat making money is simple.
(27:51):
You can visit my website, join my mailing list,and find the the link to book to grab a a copy
of my book, Making Money is Simple.
And it's allmakingmoneyissimple.com, and thebook is also available on Amazon.
Okay.
Fantastic.
And we'll make sure that's in the show notes.
So what am I walking away with?
I'm thinking I talk a lot about authenticityand relationships, and I think it starts about
(28:13):
authenticity in reference to yourself.
Right?
Like, what is it that I really value and howare my actions in alignment with what I want?
And don't think that I think a lot of times weget driven by external forces and then you're
you end up with maybe some things or doingthings and you realize, oh, then now that's
gone or it's fleeting or it's not thatimportant.
(28:34):
So taking the time, Veronica saying, to be tojust really kind of be aware what am I actually
doing and then setting the intention with atimeline in mind.
I I love that.
I've never thought about smart in reference tomoney, but that why not?
We do it with everything else.
Think about it in reference to your financiallife.
So for everyone, if you're wanting to know howauthentically connected you are in
(28:56):
relationships, you can go toroxandrehodge.com/quiz, do a the mini quiz, and
we'll send you a report, and we can get on adiscovery call to chat further.
Again, Veronica, thanks so much for your time.
And for everyone, thanks for hanging out withus again, and we'll chat with you again next
week.
Take care.
Bye bye.
Thank you.
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