April 23, 2025 • 58 mins
In this special role-reversal episode of Badass Leaders Podcast, the mic is flipped! Angela Gill Nelms, usually the fearless host, takes the hot seat while her dear friend and fellow badass leader, Gia Ganesh, steps in as interviewer.
What unfolds is a raw, inspiring, and refreshingly candid conversation about leadership, resilience, and what it really means to be brave. Angela opens up about overcoming imposter syndrome, learning to lead with authenticity, and how a tough childhood shaped her fierce determination. She shares the wisdom she’s gained from motherhood, her journey as a single parent pursuing higher education, and her commitment to giving back through the AGN Group and Georgia Tech.
Whether you're an aspiring leader or a seasoned exec, this episode is packed with insight, laughter, and moments that might just shift how you lead—and live.
Learn more about Gia at:
-
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/giaganesh/
-
Website: https://giaganesh.com/meet-your-career-success-coach-gia-ganesh/
Mentioned this episode:
- Angela's blacksmithing: https://www.angelagillnelms.com/1287-2/
- Woodturning Bowls: https://www.angelagillnelms.com/1332-2/
- Radical Candor: https://amzn.to/42EL7IH
- Making of a Manager: https://amzn.to/42oOc0L
About Angela:
Angela Gill Nelms is a trailblazer in the creation of exceptional companies and teams. She serves as the Director of Biolocity and is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of both The AGN Group and the Recovery Advocate Network. Previously, she held the position of Chief Operations Officer at Aetos Imaging, RenovoRx, and Florence Healthcare. With a Bachelor's degree in Biomedical Engineering from Georgia Tech, Angela has a proven track record of successfully navigating the FDA, leading diverse teams, prioritizing the needs of customers and patients, and building exceptional companies.
Angela shares her lessons learned around the country in keynote speeches, coaching, and team-building workshops. Learn more about Angela at www.AngelaGillNelms.com.
About The AGN Group:
At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. We offer keynote and panel speaking, leadership and team-building workshops, fractional and management consulting, brand and storytelling services. Email us at hello@TheAGNGroup.com to connect. Learn more at www.TheAGNGroup.com.
Social Media Channels:
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If you take nothing from this, but that the power that you have to really say somethingincredibly motivational that can inspire someone else is huge, and it's really easy on our
end.
Welcome back to the Badass Leaders podcast and today's episode where we're going to shakethings up a little bit.
(00:20):
That's right.
I'm switching roles and seats and stepping into the guest seat instead of hosting.
I'll be the one answering all the questions and I couldn't ask for a better interviewerthan Gia Ganesh.
As a longtime friend and former colleague, Gia knows me well and I'm thrilled to have thisconversation with her.
But before we dive in, let me introduce
(00:56):
Now you're new to the podcast, welcome to our community.
I am super thrilled that you are
joining us.
I have one big favor to ask.
Please pause and subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're listening orwatching us on.
(01:22):
It will really help us be able to continue to bring amazing guests to you so that we canall learn together and be our best selves.
So are you ready?
Let's do this.
Join me Angela Gildelms on today's episode of the Badass Later podcast where I'm joinedeach week by industry experts for intimate and
(01:42):
and eye-opening discussions about the challenges and joys facing the leaders of today.
Listen in and get ready to scale your company, grow your brand, and unlock your fullbadass potential.
I am not Angela Gilnems.
(02:04):
I am her friend and ex-colleague from Florence Healthcare.
My name is Jia Ganesh and we're switching things a little bit today with her podcast.
I'm going to be in her seat asking her the questions because we want to get to knowAngela.
There's so much to this amazing lady that you all should know.
You've all learned a lot from her as she interviews and talks to other people.
(02:25):
But this lady is amazing in so many ways that cannot be described in an hour.
but we're going to try and see how we can capture the depths of it at least to a certainextent.
So Angela, welcome to your own podcast.
Thank you.
I feel a little nervous right now.
I'm going to change it to, I feel a excited, a lot excited.
(02:46):
But thank you.
You're going to be fine.
Until I feel at home in your own home, in your own podcasting studio.
But thank you for giving me this opportunity for, you know, firstly, spending an hour withyou is really I love spending time with you, as you know, and then getting to know you a
little bit more.
And I want you to share with your podcast listeners things that they don't get to hearbecause you keep asking people questions, right?
(03:07):
OK.
Are you OK?
Yeah.
I want to start with be brave, be badass.
Okay.
said that ever since know you for the past seven years I think six seven years and eversince I've known you you've said that phrase you have to tell us what that means how you
came up with it why that is your motto for life
That is such a great question.
(03:28):
So as many things, kind of stumbled onto it in a time in my life where I just neededencouragement.
So I created that hashtag about 14 years ago.
it was when I first started doing triathlons and so marathons, triathlons and exercising.
(03:49):
And I became really, really passionate about motivating other people that they could alsodo it.
Right.
How many times do we see
someone do something and we think I could never do that.
Yes.
Okay.
And it's typically we absolutely can do that if we really want to, right?
And so I started understanding this idea that each of us individually we have our own
(04:15):
personal badass, and what does that mean?
It is our absolute personal best at that time and stage in our life.
And what my badass is, is different than what yours is, Gia.
But we each have our own personal badass, okay?
And the thing that I've realized is that oftentimes we as humans are afraid to try andstrive towards that.
(04:40):
And so Be Brave, You Badass is really an encouragement to everyone to not be afraid, to bebrave and really capture and live your personal badass because you only live once.
And, you know, it's like that poem, The Dash that I share with a lot of people, you know,you only live once.
so using that opportunity to absolutely be your best.
(05:02):
And now it's evolved with the AGM group into helping teams, companies and organizationsalso be their absolute best.
Awesome.
Thank you for sharing that.
You know, it's easy to say that, right?
Like it's easy for me to say to you or for you to say to me, be brave and be badass.
But how can we be brave?
Because many of us do have inhibitions that don't let us be brave and to be badass, right?
(05:26):
Like I know what I should be doing or could be doing, but I have my own set of impostersyndromes that hold me back.
How have you overcome that?
Or do you kind of fake it till you make it?
What strategies do you use to help people break through those kind of barriers?
I love this.
So one thing is I strongly believe that we don't give ourselves anywhere near the grace.
(05:50):
We give other people.
And so oftentimes I feel as if I'm judging myself that I can't do something.
I'm being way harsher than I would ever be for somebody else.
So at the stage where I finally learned to A, sit back and stop living for other people tojust live for myself and
(06:12):
also learned that the idea of being brave and being badass doesn't mean you're alwaysawesome.
It means being the best you can at that moment or at that stage in your life.
And so there could be a stage in your life where you're sick a lot or you have strugglesor whatever, right?
(06:33):
And it doesn't look as glorious and amazing to you.
And you may think this isn't badass at all.
However, if every day you get up,
And you say, I'm going to do the best I can do today.
That's it.
I heard this on a movie.
There's a reason you have eyes on the front of your head, right?
And not in the back.
Live forward.
(06:54):
And so really, for me, it's because I've had a lot of pivots in my career as well.
It's really just been, OK, let me center in today.
and what is the best I can do today and what's holding back.
And I think as far as the imposter syndrome and also thinking I'm not sure I can do this,that or the other, I think a couple of things that have really made a big impact in my
(07:20):
life is surrounding myself with amazing people.
So I try and steer away from, you know, the people that their glass is, it's not evenalways half empty.
It's like three quarters empty to them, right?
mean, it's just like, it's exhausting to be around.
And I've really transitioned to staying with people who are also trying to live their bestlife.
(07:44):
Not saying you have to be fake and all of that, but you can be authentic and true.
And then when I surround myself with those people, I started having people affirm me inthe same way I was affirming them.
And the power of encouraging someone else, we forget.
Like if you do nothing else, if listeners, watchers, if you take nothing from
(08:08):
but that the power that you have to really say something incredibly motivational that caninspire someone else is huge.
And it's really easy on our end.
And so by really focusing, giving myself grace, by focusing on the day, in the moment, andalso surrounding myself with people who lift me up, who people who help me learn, grow.
(08:32):
aspire and people who believe in me and affirm me, that's really allowed me to traversemany rocky roads and challenging times.
That's awesome.
Especially given that yesterday was International Women's Day.
I know you have a lot of inspiring women in your life who are part of the circle.
Can you talk to us about one person and how they inspired you to be this brave, badasslife that you live today?
(08:59):
You don't have to name the person.
this.
love this.
You know, I think that...
I think that a couple of things.
One, I have within my family, I've had several really strong women in my family who reallysupported me.
you one example is my aunt Connie, like they have nurtured and loved me my entire life.
(09:25):
I mean, I am the daughter that they never had, right?
And they always believed in me and said loving things to me.
and now that I see them caring for
my 101 year old grandmother and the other grandmother is I believe 94 or 95 and they bothlive in their house and they're caring and loving for them.
(09:48):
I think that amount of servitude and love for family has been really inspiring.
I've had...
So I would say that I had another aunt that when I was young, I was one girl and I hadthree brothers.
And when she was raised, she was the girl with the three brothers.
(10:08):
And we used to have this phrase, us girls have to stick together.
And I remember that.
mean, that is the earliest, probably one of the earliest phrases in life I remember ishearing her constantly say that.
girls have to stay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think that in looking at the way these two aunts of mine are very different, butthey really, really supported me being a female and wanting me to be my best.
(10:36):
And oftentimes, unfortunately, we see women who don't lift up other women.
And I think actually if I were to pick one person that inspired me to be my best, it wouldbe because she was not her best.
And I had this instance when I worked at Medtronic, was really the big reason I leftMedtronic is that I had a female manager who was just awful.
(10:58):
She was one of those that was like, wait, Angela might get promoted and might do well.
I'm gonna do everything I can to hold her back.
And it was really an awful experience.
And I observed that and I thought, you know what, never, never will I do that.
I will do everything I can to help.
And I don't just help women, right?
(11:19):
I want to help anyone grow.
But I specifically will do anything I can to help women who are willing to empower otherwomen.
Okay, Angela, you you've been big about community always, and you brought that same kindof mental attitude towards building companies as well.
You did that at Florence, you've done that at other organizations, you've gone on to buildafter Florence as well.
(11:43):
And I know you often mentioned Steve Wozniak's book in your...
podcast.
I don't recall you mentioning that book when we worked together at Florence, but youalready had that attitude about white glove customer service.
That was a phrase that I'd heard from you the most, you know, like after the ritz of theworld, ritz coulters of the world, you were the only one who doesn't matter what we do, we
(12:06):
have to provide white glove customer service.
So tell us a little bit about how you cared so much about building a community where weprovided white glove customer service and ensure that we had that community feeling inside
and with our customers.
I love that.
love that.
Well, you know what's funny is you didn't hear me mention Steve Wozniak's book thenbecause he had not written it yet.
Exactly.
(12:26):
And he published his book in 2023.
And the thing that was really I caught on to with his book is that it reminded me so muchof Ken Blanchard's book, Raving Fans.
It was published in 1993.
And that was very purposeful.
If you watch the interview, you guys should go watch episode one of the podcast.
And but I think, you know, reading
(12:49):
raving fans really had a big impact on me.
But even earlier in life, I always had this mindset that anything you do, you should doyour absolute best.
So if you're busing tables at McDonald's, you should be the best table bus person.
I also knew that I had experienced how much better it feels when you can smile and behappy with people.
(13:13):
And I think, you know, I remember when I was in college, I worked at a jewelry store and Ijust wanted to talk to the customer.
I wanted them to feel at home and to be a part of any community that we were in.
And then I observed instances where I started to identify my own brand loyalty based onhow people made me feel.
(13:33):
Like the restaurants I would go to because they would remember what I wanted to drink orwhat my meal was or they'd ask about my daughter.
I quickly picked up, like, wait, I'm going back to these places or REI and their return.
I would rather pay more money and buy something from REI and know that I'm covered andthere's going be no questions asked.
(13:58):
And so I think as I started doing this and then when I was at Medtronic specificallyworking with these nurse coordinators at hospitals who were super busy, I also learned
that if you make life easy for them, then when you need them to actually fill out theirdocuments, they're more willing to do it for you because you actually care about them.
(14:20):
And you have recognized how busy they are.
You've seen them as a human.
And it really helped me realize just that people want you to succeed when they know youcare about them.
And so when Ryan Jones recruited me to Florence, the White Glove customer service and thehealthcare and then building great teams, those were my three pillars the entire time.
(14:46):
I was like, absolutely, we have to have these things because I know if we can deliverthese three things, we will be successful.
People will want to see you be successful.
And how great is that when customers are fighting for you to be successful?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm going to switch a little bit between personal and professional to make the episodeinteresting.
(15:07):
You spoke about doing the best you can at everything you do, right?
Like whether it's busing tables or anything else that you do, you have to be the best youcan.
But does that also mean that you're striving for perfectionism?
Does that hold some people back?
What do you think's on striving for the best, but not being hindered by perfectionism?
totally, totally.
My favorite phrase is don't let perfect be the enemy of good, Voltaire.
(15:30):
And I was lecturing a class at Georgia Tech on Friday, and it's on project management.
Students were getting so nitty gritty into something that I was like, whoa, wait.
The point of you learning project management is to have an overall path towards successwhere you're moving that way.
You cannot let perfect be the enemy of good because if you try and make every singledetail, you'll just drive yourself insane.
(15:53):
And I think it's the same thing about trying to be perfect in things in life is that A, noone else is perfect.
So I'm not sure why we think we have to be because we give them the grace.
like, it's totally fine that that bowl that's wood turned is a little off edge there.
If it's their bowl, but if it's my bowl, no, it's gotta be perfect.
(16:17):
And I think that having the idea of understanding there's beauty in things that are notperfect because it means that they were made by someone, not by a machine.
There's beauty in slowly growing.
It takes 10,000 hours to be an expert in something, right?
So your chapter one is never going to look like somebody else's chapter 10.
(16:43):
And so I think that being able to laugh at ourselves, we make mistakes and realize it'snot our own personal identity.
Some of those things have really helped me over the years expand.
There have been times I'm, you know, there are times I'm absolutely a perfectionist.
Like if it's a PowerPoint deck and I see a mistake on it, I'm just like, my gosh, how didthat get out?
(17:05):
being different.
Yes, listeners, you do, the fonts cannot be different.
If we're using sentence case, you have to continue using sentence case or title case, usetitle case.
my gosh.
So, but I think that it's also taking a step back and saying, okay, what does success looklike in this instance?
(17:26):
Success is not perfection.
Cause that's top.
typically a lack of just passion in it.
So success is growing, getting a little bit better.
And I think maybe one thing that really helps me later in life were the more randomhobbies I would pick up.
I suddenly realized like, I'm not gonna make a perfect knife blacksmithing or like I said,a perfect bowl.
(17:47):
And if I strive, if perfection is the only thing that will make me happy, I will bemiserable.
And so I really want to get to also I think,
If you want to break your perfectionism at some point, get to a point where you'reblacksmithing and something looks a little off and you're like, I'm going to keep fixing
it.
(18:07):
And then you burn it up in the coal.
And you're like, OK, now that was actually perfect.
This is what it was before.
But when you realize that sometimes in life, and I think this is a good thing to thinkabout in life, sometimes in life when we try and push for perfection, we actually just
burn up the joy and the beauty of it.
(18:27):
And in case you're wondering why she's talking about blacksmithing, it's because out ofthe million hobbies she has, one of the hobbies is blacksmithing, and we'll get to it in a
bit.
But back to Florence and Medtronics and some of the other organizations.
Angela, you were also very keen on hiring people that were coachable, and people whoexhibited, and even when you interviewed me, that was one of the things you said that
(18:51):
really helped me move forward in the process because I was coachable, willing to takefeedback.
Tell us a little bit about that.
and how you've taken feedback from others and how that has helped shape your life.
Love it, it.
Yeah.
I remember your interview.
That must have been seven or eight years ago.
seven, yeah.
Okay, and yeah, I think here's the deal.
(19:13):
If, let's go back to the perfection thing.
No one's perfect.
Exactly.
No one is perfect.
And the beauty in life, I think, is surrounding yourself with people with different skillsand having the ability to learn and grow by being surrounded by them, right?
It would be really boring to be surrounded just by a hundred Angelas that all did theexact same thing.
(19:33):
We would never grow.
And so the coachable part is that if you're coming into an organization and you're notwilling
to grow and learn from the people you were spending more time with than your family.
mean, literally these are the people that you're spending the majority of your time duringthat tenure with.
(19:54):
If you're not gonna be a lifelong learner and you're not gonna wanna learn and grow andcontinually become better, then that's a pretty sad life.
And a lot of people live in that world.
I think a lot of people live in that world because they do have fear that they're gonna bediscovered that they're not perfect.
So here's the secret.
Who isn't perfect?
You're already discovered.
You were born.
(20:14):
So you're not perfect.
And I think coaching on the other realm has times where it's been
easy and great and other times where it's been hard.
So I would say that the coaching I loved is when I could get people who reported to me togive me feedback, which you know that's really hard.
And I remember this one employee at Florence who I could not get her to give me feedback.
(20:38):
And I was like, OK, look, you just said you love when I give you feedback and you'regrowing.
And yet by you not giving me feedback, you're
you're basically not allowing me to grow at all.
Like you're kind of screwing me over.
So I said, I want you to go home and your homework is to come back on Monday and tell mesomething I need to grow and learn.
And she did and it was a great experience.
(20:59):
I think those kind of times when you, people around you and you consider the fact thatthey're giving you the feedback because they actually care, they're not being spiteful,
they actually care.
I think those are amazing moments.
Now.
The times that I've gotten feedback, the struggles when you get feedback from someone youdon't respect and someone that you really do not believe they have your best interests in
(21:25):
mind, and that's the hard part.
And so one of the things that I've tried to do when that happens is I've said there's thispsychology that says, really, not always, but a lot of times if someone says something
about you or in way and it really upsets you,
that you really should lean into that, because it's probably something that's true thatyou're being super defensive about.
(21:50):
So what I've tried to do more recently when I've had some of these instances is said, OK,one, it's not about them.
I don't care who they are, right?
Is there any piece of this that I can absorb and hear?
Because they may even be saying it to me out of spite.
(22:11):
but there are gonna be a lot of people in the world who just don't like you.
And if you just have a perspective of how you're viewed by different people, then A, Idon't believe you should change yourself to be viewed perfectly by everyone.
So I do not want that to be the message, but understanding how that is and then making adecision like, yes, this is who I am and this is what I'm gonna stay with.
(22:32):
Or you know what?
I could.
probably address this situation a little bit more gracefully that would help people fromdifferent areas.
So I think that is the hardest part is when you get feedback from people you don'trespect.
I think also if a listener is in an experience like this, then I would also say to them,are you at the right place you should be working at?
(22:54):
Maybe it's time for you to transition somewhere else and work with people that you reallyrespect and then take their feedback.
You currently work at Bylaw.
Do you see entrepreneurs, upcoming entrepreneurs that are willing to take feedback or isthat something that holds them back because they think they already know or haven't
figured out?
(23:15):
Both, both.
So yes, I am brand new at BioLocity, which is a philanthropic organization through, it'sfunded through Georgia Tech and Emory and through endowments and grants.
And the goal is to help commercialize things that have intellectual property at eitherGeorgia Tech or Emory.
So faculty, staff, or students who have developed something amazing.
(23:38):
And the goal of the program is to get it to patients as quickly as possible.
And so I can think of some of the teams that are amazing.
They come to us and they are like, okay, should we, even simple things, should we do anLLC or should we do a C-Core?
Should we do this?
What should we do for our key net?
And they're really seeking to help.
(24:00):
Or they're like, can we practice our pitch deck with you?
Or you say something, you're looking at their slides and you say, okay,
your slides look like you're presenting at a research conference.
You're trying to get money.
So stop presenting that way.
Let's present how you're selling to VC.
And they will love it, and they'll take it.
(24:21):
And then you have some who will hear you, and you'll try and coach them.
And they'll say something.
And you may say, OK, whatever you do, do not say that to a VC.
And then they'll get into this defensive mode where they're like, of course, I would neversay that to VC, but I'm going to say that here.
Well, you and I know the words that we use in times like that are what you end up saying,right?
(24:46):
Because you get nervous.
That's what you're believing.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so this individual got really frustrated.
And I just reiterated to them, here's the deal.
I know for a fact.
that the words you say in meetings like this, if you don't practice the way that you needto for the customer, your next customer is going to be a VC.
(25:08):
then you are going to say that in that way.
So I'm sorry I'd upset you, but I'm gonna give you that feedback, because I wanna see yoube successful.
But it is really hard because I'm working with some brilliant people who are amazing, waysmarter than I could ever be, which I love.
So I'm constantly learning from them.
And then we have some teams that we may pull funding from, because they're not coachable.
(25:33):
And we're all about commercializing.
And if you're all about keeping your research in lab and adding all these bells andwhistles to it, then our partnership is probably not the right one.
So if there's a team, and actually we're in the middle of a funding round, and some of thestuff we're looking at with the teams we may fund are which ones are coachable.
(25:53):
Because if they're coachable at this stage, then we can help them be really great.
I think it goes back to what you and I have said for a long time.
Brilliant jerks do not work.
Yes!
Do not!
Yes, get rid of it.
important.
It's just not just being technically competent or brilliant is not enough.
We all have to be adaptable, coachable and agile and nimble in these times where we canalso collaborate well with others.
(26:17):
That emotional intelligence has to be high as well.
Remember you giving me a gift very early on.
Early on when I started.
It was a pair of socks that said, go on to make your next mistake, right?
Is that something along those lines?
Yeah, there's a rocket on it onto my next mistake or something like that.
(26:38):
Basically, you urge me to shed my perfectionist tendencies and to, you know, make progressand make my mistake and move on.
I wanted to bring the socks, but I could not find it.
I actually I bought myself a pair of those socks maybe a year and a half ago because Iremember I remember that story and so Yeah, I'm not sure I could find I'm not sure I could
(27:01):
run and find them really quick But well, we'll put a link in the show notes to the Amazonlink and then you guys can all purchase them
Yeah, the reason I brought that up is because, you know, that's helped me grow.
You know, that was feedback that was delivered in a fun way.
Talking about fun, Angela knows how to make things fun quite a bit.
Even at Florence, she did a little, you know, a lot of quirky little things she wouldbring into office.
(27:25):
She had these no buttons.
Do you remember the button?
where you press the button.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, so you've always infused fun into work even though you are delivering importantmessages fun has been a big part of your life What do you how do you coach people to have
that fun approach as you coach leaders and other folks through the agent group as well?
(27:51):
The reality is this, is that people engage more, open up more, and remember more when theydo things that have a spirit of fun to them.
If they laugh, there's something about the energy that you use to laugh.
And also, I think when leaders specifically do this, you're more human to them, right?
(28:16):
And it also allows us, know, the fun thing about the no button is I had quite a few teammembers who were horrible at saying no to things.
And I was like, read this book Boundary by Cloud and Townsend and here's a no button.
you know, it was a way that I wanted them to think about these things, but in a funmanner.
(28:38):
It's even, you know, for example, on Friday, we were teaching project management.
and we were splitting up into grooves, the comment came up, I made a whole bunch of funnypotential topics.
And I'm like, I want you to create a project on this funny thing.
I don't want to sit and watch some boring project that you're creating.
(28:58):
Let's have fun.
And we did.
We had a blast.
And I think that those moments when you engage the creative part of your brain along withthe other more analytical side, then the experience is more impactful and it lasts longer.
And people feel more at home and comfortable.
It also shows that you've been thoughtful, right?
(29:18):
It's not just an assignment.
You just said, hey, create a project plan, but you've taken the time to think through funtopics.
And sometimes you make it very personal as well, right?
Like you delivered poker chips to Kevin at one point, et cetera.
That shows that you've taken time to think about the person and make something thatresonates with them.
It goes a long way.
Everything that you do has that thoughtfulness.
(29:39):
Even your podcast studio, for example, is very thoughtful.
You've talked about a lot of leadership philosophies that you share with people, right?
And one of the things that I've seen you do very well is conflict resolution, right?
You've been in conflicts.
I've seen you've been in conflicts.
You and I have been in conflicts as well.
But I've seen the approach you've taken towards conflict resolution.
(30:00):
Can you share with your listeners and viewers what your approach is and how do you coachyour clients through the AGN group?
What is your philosophies on conflict resolution?
love that you're asking this question because multiple episodes of the Badass Leaderspodcast, we've talked about conflict.
And when I was a guest on Vicki's podcast, she's like, so you talk a lot about conflict.
(30:22):
Why do you like conflict?
I was like, I love this.
I love conflict.
And so I'll put a link to a snippet that I talked about on that.
So my philosophy is A, it was very much shown.
Initially, I learned so much from the book Radical Candor.
And another similar methodology is making of a manager.
(30:42):
It's a little gentler.
Radical Candor is a little more brash.
It's a little bit too much for some people.
But I think that when I think about conflict, there's a couple of things.
One, I think part of the reason I love conflict is that when
coming from an abusive childhood, I was never allowed to disagree.
So was never allowed to resolve any issues.
And so I would, over time, see the impact of people who were just quietly going along.
(31:10):
And I saw that it was stagnant, and it was hurtful, and people weren't happy, and youweren't really thriving.
And so the example when I talked to Vicki about conflict is,
As I said, you know, the thing is, is that we are all better when we take all the piecesof ourselves and collaborate together to come to.
(31:32):
And you're always going to agree, which we both know, right?
But if you keep all of those things in your head and they never come out, you don't, haveno idea the masterpiece you can create.
And the example I used was of a puzzle.
So imagine we're trying to do a puzzle together and you have a couple of key pieces thatyou've tucked away.
And I have a couple of key pieces, no matter
how hard we work, like we might get a square rectangle thing we can frame, but it's notgonna be a masterpiece.
(31:58):
However, if we bring those pieces together and present them and then talk and collaborateover them and then integrate what makes sense to integrate, wow, it can be so beautiful.
And so I think when I think of conflict, the first rule of conflict resolution is toremember,
that you should strive to get to understand the other person as a human being.
(32:22):
So understanding humans as humans.
The second thing is that whole adage, we have two ears and one mouth for a reason, is toreally allow the other person to share what their thoughts are.
And then the third, would say, is very a Brene Brown technique.
It's to then say back to them, OK, so what I heard you say was this.
(32:44):
Is that right?
and then allowing them to say, no, no, no, that's not what I meant.
I meant this.
And there is something that's powerful in the mind when someone allows you to restatesomething and really cares and wants you to clarify.
Then suddenly, instead of, I really want the word conflict to not feel like a cuss word topeople.
(33:07):
think a lot of people cringe over it, right?
Yes.
And I really want it to be something like when the conflict happens, this is ouropportunity to make something much more beautiful.
So let's sit in the moment and do it and respecting the other person by doing that.
tell you a couple a couple of rounds of making sure.
(33:30):
Yes.
OK, is this what you meant?
And then you finally get to yes.
And I say, OK, well, when when this happened, the story in my head was this that or theother.
course, typically the other person's like, that's not what I meant at all.
Right?
Exactly.
And then you start to realize that oftentimes the stories we tell ourselves in our headaren't reality.
(33:50):
And once again, while having healthy conflict allows us to work through that and reallyhave, I mean, some of the best relationships I have are ones that we've had healthy
conflict with.
And I say healthy in that it's a two-way street.
It's listening to understand on both ends.
It's not raised voices or anger or things like that, but it's really striving towards agoal of wanting what's best.
(34:17):
Angela, you touched briefly upon your childhood.
If you don't mind telling us your journey through childhood and how that shaped you to bewho you are and how that's also helped you adapt this badass philosophy that's running
your life today.
Yeah, so I was the, really the third child of my parents.
(34:39):
My parents got pregnant in high school.
Their first child was born early, and I'm not sure if he was stillborn, but he was bornwith disabilities and either was stillborn or died very quickly.
Interestingly enough, at seven months, which was the same time that I lost my first child.
And then my mom got pregnant very quickly and had a boy, she was really happy.
(35:00):
Unfortunately, my mother, her whole life had struggled with mental health issues.
And so she...
Her, she had found her father had died by suicide and she was the one that had found him.
And it had other replicate, replicate or what are the words that I'm looking, what is thewords?
Implications, repercussions.
(35:20):
Yeah, exactly to her and her own life that caused abuse for her.
And so she had developed this where she really didn't like herself.
And so when she was pregnant with me, she was, she told my aunt who'd been struggling tohave kids,
who was on fertility treatment.
She didn't want to have a girl.
And my aunt had shared that she did want to have a girl.
(35:42):
And if so, she would name her Angela.
And so then I was born.
And my mom named me Angela, despite her sister-in-law.
And now the beauty of this is that my aunt and uncle ended up having two boys.
And they did not have a daughter.
And I ended up being their daughter.
They are literally parents to me now.
And so that was a gift.
(36:03):
anyways, so when you have a child though that is raised up with a mother who can't standherself and therefore can't stand this little girl, I was brutally abused very badly for
the first, I guess maybe four years of my life.
And they used to, they kept calling Child Protective Services to come in.
And then of course they would come in, were like, nothing's wrong.
(36:23):
Until my mom broke my nose really badly and then they couldn't hide it.
And there are all these court hearings.
When I was a teenager, I came across the tapes.
This was back when we had tapes, right?
I came across the tapes and I would listen.
It was really crazy as a teenager to hear your voice in a court recording from that young.
(36:43):
So anyway.
But I really struggled growing up because then I had a whole bunch of abuse from my fatherand one of my brothers.
And yet somehow I just knew that I was good.
I knew that I was a good person.
And despite all the negative things people were saying to me, I was just like, no, I knowI can do this and I will.
(37:07):
And I think that really just having that inner fire.
really kept me to that and every time I did had so many obstacles and so many pivots but Ijust never gave up never ever ever gave up and I think that has been kind of my calling
card is saying you know I'm not going to give up and then the biggest beauty was maybe my30s when I suddenly realized I'm spending all this time
(37:33):
trying to make my parents proud of me.
Why am I doing that?
Like, seriously?
And then I just let go and I was just like, I'm just gonna be my best self.
And you know what, to be my best self, I will say that growing up, I did a lot of servicewith the church and I loved serving and I've been on many mission trips to different
countries and I love helping communities and doing that.
(37:55):
And so I think at the stage where I suddenly said, I don't need to have other people, makeother people happy.
I can be myself.
And I can keep looking forward.
I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm going to keep looking forward and I can give love toother people.
And through that, find much joy that that really, I that's when we got to be bravelybadass.
(38:16):
My whole point wasn't for me in the beginning.
It was that.
I saw so many other people that were like, I could never do this.
And I was like, yes, you can.
And I really just wanted them to use my legacy, my legacy to be helping other people betheir best.
Because when I do that, it just brings me so much joy.
(38:37):
Yeah, lot to unpack there.
Also, even your story through your Georgia Tech years, when you went and got your degreewith Rihanna, I want you to share that with your leaders.
there's so much there, Angela.
It's so inspiring.
It gives everybody hope.
(38:57):
It doesn't matter what circumstance you are in.
You can rise above the situations.
I'd love for you to talk through how you went through college with Rihanna as a singleparent.
Yes, yes.
So I decided at 29 to go back to school to get my engineering degree with a special need.
She was two years old and she had physical speech and occupational therapy three times aweek.
(39:20):
And I went to Georgia Tech to get my degree in biomedical engineering.
And I had so many people tell me, including my ex-husband, her dad, that I would nevergraduate.
I couldn't do it.
Like I couldn't do it by myself and whatever, which...
once again, felt like, please tell me I can't do something and then I will show you how Ican do it.
And so, I just, I had to live in graduate and family housing.
(39:48):
I...
could, the only amount of student loans I could get were the exact same amount that mybaby brother who was living in a dorm with three other guys could get.
And I had, you know, daycare.
I did get alimony for a couple years because I had helped put my ex-husband throughschool.
But I couldn't work a job because I had my daughter and I didn't have any money forchildcare and it wouldn't make sense.
(40:12):
I had to pay for childcare while I was in school.
Fortunately, I got a job working in a research lab that I worked in almost the entire timethat I was there and that really helped me and gave me a little bit of income.
But I think I just was so determined to provide a great life for my daughter and formyself that I worked really, really hard.
(40:34):
I remember it'd be so funny because we would do team projects and then...
typically, mostly boys, and they would, they'd like, I didn't have time to do my part ofthis project.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
Like, I don't even start doing any homework until eight or nine o'clock at night aftertaking care of my child and doing all of these other things.
(40:56):
But I think that sometimes sometimes the things that are the hardest or the things we wantthe most and we work the hardest towards achieving.
And so I really I wanted that degree.
I wanted highest honors.
And I also I think part the other part that really made my time at Georgia Tech andGeorgia Tech completely changed my life.
I'm so grateful.
(41:17):
And I think it was also I was coming through at a great time because the program was newand
we didn't have the scholarships, the grants, the awards and stuff that the otherengineering disciplines had.
And it was really quite frustrating because we would go to the women in engineeringbanquet and all of these electrical engineering or chemical engineering, they would get
(41:40):
all these scholarships and grants and biomedical engineering get nothing.
And it was really because oftentimes those are sponsored by alumni with that, right?
And the program was too new for that.
But I was like, is, no, we can't do this.
And so my happiest moment was starting these annual awards for Georgia Tech biomedicalengineering students.
(42:01):
And I just was showing Kajal them on Friday.
Now it's a whole wall with plaques.
I was like, before me, like these were not here.
There is none of this.
And it was just being able to, during that time, give back and also start creating alegacy of
gratitude and appreciation and acknowledgement of hard work of other people.
(42:24):
And by doing that, I was really lucky that I got the overall best student award.
It was the category that include research, leadership, community service, and academics.
And so I received that award, which I was really shocked because I thought by being theperson who was creating this whole program, no one would ever like.
nominate and then vote for me.
(42:45):
So then when my name was announced, I was like, my gosh, this is amazing.
But I will say that I just kept doing the next best thing that I could and trying hard forthe moment and then moving to the next thing and trying hard for the moment.
and then moving to the next thing.
that's really one of the reasons that I loved Ironman racing is in long distance racing isthis whole mindset of, okay, just keep going another mile and then another mile and then
(43:13):
another mile.
And plus I had this passion for engineering and healthcare.
And so was at the forefront of that, but I really thrive there and have so much gratitudefor it.
You've gone on to give back a lot to Georgia Tech.
Tell us a little bit about what you've done.
Yes, so I at one point was on the biomedical engineering external advisor board.
(43:35):
I was then chair of the external advisor board, which was really great too, because then Igot to bring some amazing people onto the board to help grow the program.
And then I am currently on the College of Engineering board.
And I also serve on the board to the president, which is the Georgia Tech Advisory Board.
And I give two scholarships each year that one is to a student that wants to go studyabroad.
(43:58):
I strongly believe, like, get out of your country and go experience the world.
My whole world changed the first time I left the US.
And then the other one is to fund students that want to work at a startup that can'tafford to pay for an internship.
And so will give them a grant so then they can go.
And why?
Because I saw at Florence, like, when we had these interns, we gave them a real project.
(44:23):
That was my rule, right?
Yep.
You have a real project, we're not micromanaging you, you're gonna have something to showat the end.
And the value of that for anyone then adding that to their career is huge.
But also, a lot of times students need to be able to make that money to pay for housing.
Going back to my Georgia Tech days, I floated most of my education on credit cards becauseI could only, that was the comment about the financial aid.
(44:49):
It's like I can't get enough financial aid to survive.
And they said,
if you have more, then you're still gonna have to pay it off later.
And I remember exactly where I was sitting and I looked at the lady and I said, you dorealize I'm just flooding this from credit card to credit card.
I'm still gonna have to pay it off later.
So I graduated with $80,000 of credit card debt that I eventually paid off.
(45:10):
But yeah, trying to navigate through all of that just continue to really give meappreciation for other people and made me stronger.
So in the 20 years since Georgia Tech, your life has taken quite a few turns.
Angela, today you are the proud owner of AGN Groups.
(45:31):
You have gone on to empower so many leaders through the AGN Group as well.
Tell us a little more about what kind of clients you work with, what kind of things do youdo with them?
I know you're also doing a lot of work through Chief.
What kind of services can people avail from you?
Yes.
well, a one of my most fun things is to work with individuals on their own personalbranding.
(45:54):
And I kind of fell into my own brand.
Like, as I mentioned, be brave, be badass.
I fell into that.
And I actually didn't realize people were identifying with me as my brand until every timeI kept getting all these badass gifts.
I saw this and thought of you.
And I was like, that is amazing.
Right.
And so that I love working with individuals that are trying
(46:17):
to determine what their personal brand is, because there's so much power in that.
After you've identified who you are as a human and what you want to accomplish, then itreally helps you focus on the areas that are really going to make you happy and
successful.
So I love to do that.
I also love to do team building exercises and to go into groups.
So really help.
(46:40):
I think that if you're running a company, you need to have someone come from outside thecompany to do some of these team building exercises so that they can then observe and give
you feedback you're not gonna see inside.
So I really love to do that.
And then personal coaching for individuals that are trying to navigate through theircareer or they may wanna start a podcast or a blog or something like that to help them
(47:05):
understand how they can begin to give back in a way that's meaningful to them.
It's really important because what's meaningful to me is very different than what'smeaningful.
I'm working with my cousin right now on his brand.
What's meaningful to him is very different than what it is for me.
But really, I just want to be able to live this life in all these different areas,including Chief is lifting up other women leaders, is that I really just want to be able
(47:31):
to say, I did my best to try and give.
the love, compassion, and support to other people that I didn't get when I was younger andreally needed.
And then when I got it later in life, I really was able to thrive.
And I can see that difference in me.
So the opportunity to give that to other people so that they can thrive is really amazing.
(47:54):
You've spoken a lot about your personal and professional life, but I want to explore theother dimension, which is you somehow make time for a million other hobbies.
And I know it's a big part of your life because it adds more dimension and color to yourlife.
So tell us a little bit more about how you got started in exploring hobbies.
How can people make time for hobbies?
(48:14):
Because most often when you hear people, at least in their midlife times, they say, Idon't have time for hobbies.
How do you make time for 10 hobbies?
Yes, well, fortunately I don't do them all at the same time, which is good.
And I think that's part of it, right?
Is that remembering that there's a season for things in your life.
And you've heard me say this, but every time you say yes to something means you're sayingno to something else.
(48:36):
So choose your yeses wisely.
I think that, you know, some of, I love blacksmithing, I love woodturning, I just startedbeekeeping, which I'm really excited about.
And I think it ties to a couple things.
One, being a lifelong learner.
And...
I just get inspired by learning new things and crafting new things.
(48:56):
The other is actually very, all of those are very stress-reducing, stress-relieving andtherapeutic.
And so it is that outlet and you could use that outlet.
I see some people use it, scrolling through Facebook and all these other things.
I don't do that.
And so I think that it ties back to the time piece of it.
(49:19):
We make time for things that are really important to us.
And so I would encourage, it's really healthy to be a life, like research shows if youcontinue to learn throughout your life, you'll live longer, reduces a lot of mental
challenges and issues with dementia and stuff like that can be reduced by being a lifelonglearner.
(49:41):
So I would encourage you to pick something that you wanna do.
blacksmithing was because I was going to John C.
Campbell with Guy Griswold when we were dating and he was taking woodturning and I waslooking through all the classes and I was like, blacksmithing?
I wanna do that.
I also love to make things to give as gifts and I love to make gifts that people will keepforever.
(50:05):
And so when I was pregnant with Rihanna, I learned to quilt.
And so I did a lot of quilting back then.
If you make a quilt for someone, they're not going to get rid of it.
And so then with blacksmithing, I was just like, this sounds cool.
And I also like to do things that are not typical girl things.
do this to boundary.
(50:27):
Most people are like, blacksmith?
That is badass.
I'm like, yes, right on brand.
scared.
I registered for it and then I was like what if I hate it or what if I'm awful at it andactually on day two I got horrible third degree burns on my fingers.
I don't know that they were third whatever they were horrible horrible burns.
(50:49):
Tenth degree burns.
I'm just gonna make up a number and I had already fallen so much in love with it that Iwas like taping it up with duct tape and let's go.
We're gonna and the instructor who Pat he was amazing.
He still will message me.
He was just like I really thought you weren't coming back.
the next day after I saw those birds, right?
I was like, nope, I'm in here.
(51:09):
I'm going to do it.
And so I think it's really empowering.
And also you're banging on metal.
So if you're mad at something, take a hammer and bang on some metal, right?
So it's really pausing when you do those things.
And your hobbies could be anything.
It could be hiking in nature.
Like I've hiked all over the world.
There was a period of time where hiking was a big part.
(51:30):
There was a period of time when Ironmans, I did six Ironmans.
That was my hobby.
So I think it's also when it's okay to say to yourself, what do I want to experience in myhobby at this stage in my life?
And then digging in and doing it.
And quite frankly, I believe if someone else can do it, I can do it as well.
Now, I may not be able to do it as well as them.
(51:53):
It may not be perfect.
I'm just like, will not.
It's going back to our earlier conversation.
But you know what?
At some point, everyone is a beginner at some point.
And so you just have to decide, are you gonna have your beginning day today, 20 years fromnow or never?
Because 20 years from now may never come.
Do you, is it okay to give up on a hobby and go to the next one?
it's not bringing you joy, and I think that's a big thing, right?
(52:18):
If it's not bringing you joy, or maybe if it's too expensive, right?
Or maybe you don't want, you know, I...
I took a long period away from blacksmithing because the shop I used had to move and Ididn't have a place to do it.
So I transitioned into woodturning instead.
And so I think really it's absolutely, you know, I think the reality is if you're gonnaturn away from a hobby, I would encourage you to pause and ponder and sit with why you're
(52:48):
turning away.
And if it's because you're just going through a lazy stage, think, am I going to regretthis 20 years from now?
Like, I'm trying to relearn how to play saxophone.
And I quit that when I was in ninth grade.
And it's a big regret that I have.
Like, I really wish I kept playing saxophone now.
So my saxophone is out in there for me to start playing saxophone again.
(53:09):
And so I think that, like anything in life, it's a stage and it's a time.
And if you're going to transition off of it to something else, remember a couple ofthings.
One,
Everything you say yes to means you're saying no to something else.
So choose that yes wisely.
Don't feel like you have to do a hobby for the rest of your life.
If you want to try something else and you only have so much time, jump in.
(53:32):
And you can always come back, hopefully sometime in the future.
But I think trying to not make, especially at our stage in life, to not make the hobby bethe chore.
So I think when the hobby starts to become a chore or you start to dread it or somethinglike that, then you're getting burned out.
So you need to evaluate why you're getting burned out and what you can change so you'renot burned out and you're enjoying it.
(53:53):
Because it should bring you peace, joy, fun, energy, not the other way around.
We're kind of almost at the near end of our episode here.
I'll just ask one more question before we go to our final question.
Tell us a little bit about burnout.
There was a stage when you felt burnt out or you were burnt out.
Tell us a little bit about how you recognized those signs and what did you do to get overthat stage.
(54:17):
Yes, yes.
I had a stage in running Florence when two thirds of the company was reporting to me.
And I will say I love the COO role because I just am very organizationally minded and Ilove the impact on the different departments that I could have.
But at that stage, the challenge that I see as a COO role is that...
(54:40):
you are constantly context switching.
A lot of other roles, so if you're head of product, you're focused on product the wholetime.
Or head of sales, or head of marketing, or oftentimes a CEO will be very sales andmarketing focused, and they're focusing on that.
But a COO is typically all over the place.
And it just got to the point where all the context switching...
(55:03):
all the challenges and all the different areas and trying to be the connector.
When you're the glue to a lot of other groups, then that is really exhausting and youdon't realize it, right?
Because you're just coming in and you're trying to bring people together.
When you're that person trying to bring people together, it takes even more energy than ifyou're just participating.
(55:24):
And so I suddenly realized, like I was getting sick a lot.
I was really ornery.
I kind of being bitchy at times.
You remember, I would go into meetings and I'd be like, okay, we're gonna solve this, dothis, and let's move on.
And I suddenly realized, like, I'm not being the human I really want to be, right?
And this is not healthy for me at all.
(55:46):
So I'm really grateful that...
I went to you and Ryan and to the board and was like, I need to take a sabbatical.
I need time off.
And so I did.
took six weeks off and I learned pottery, which I tried.
One thing I tried pottery, which I've done several times, but I'm like, pottery isn'treally my thing.
But I tried it because I was like, I want to do this.
(56:06):
I spent time yoga, meditation, got back into some of those healthy life practices that
And then when we came back, we were like, okay, she doesn't need to run two thirds of thecompany anymore.
Like some other people should step up.
And it was just a good reminder to myself once again of healthy boundaries and, you know,choosing what you're going to say yes to.
(56:28):
Thank you for sharing that because many of us are maybe even struggling with not evenrealizing that we are on the brink of burnout as such.
So thank you for sharing that.
Onto our last question for the day here, Angela, what is your favorite motivation?
like why do I not have it in here?
So it is something like that is the quote that I wrote is my life quote and that's everytime I can't remember exactly what it is but it is that when you were born you were giving
(56:58):
one opportunity to be yourself, to build a legacy, and to make a difference.
Make it count.
Thank you.
Thank you, Angela.
We've enjoyed this episode of Getting to Know Angela on the Be Brave, Be Badass podcast.
Thank you, listeners, for allowing me to share the space with this wonderful human being.
(57:22):
Thank you.
This is so much fun.
I love it.
Thanks for joining me for today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast.
To hear more interviews with industry experts and learn how to grow your career andleadership potential, be sure to like, subscribe and turn on notifications to ensure you
do not miss future episodes.
(57:44):
This podcast is a production of the AGN Group.
To learn more about the AGN Group, visit our website at theagngroup.com.
There you can discover more about our services, which include hosting workshops,management consulting, brand strategy, keynote speaking, and more.
Follow us on all social media channels shown on the screen and displayed in the shownotes.
(58:09):
And until next week, be brave and be badass.
If you take nothing from this, but that the power that you have to really say somethingincredibly motivational that can inspire someone else is huge, and it's really easy on our
end.
Welcome back to the Badass Leaders podcast and today's episode where we're going to shakethings up a little bit.
(00:20):
That's right.
I'm switching roles and seats and stepping into the guest seat instead of hosting.
I'll be the one answering all the questions and I couldn't ask for a better interviewerthan Gia Ganesh.
As a longtime friend and former colleague, Gia knows me well and I'm thrilled to have thisconversation with her.
But before we dive in, let me introduce
(00:56):
Now you're new to the podcast, welcome to our community.
I am super thrilled that you are
joining us.
I have one big favor to ask.
Please pause and subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're listening orwatching us on.
(01:22):
It will really help us be able to continue to bring amazing guests to you so that we canall learn together and be our best selves.
So are you ready?
Let's do this.
Join me Angela Gildelms on today's episode of the Badass Later podcast where I'm joinedeach week by industry experts for intimate and
(01:42):
and eye-opening discussions about the challenges and joys facing the leaders of today.
Listen in and get ready to scale your company, grow your brand, and unlock your fullbadass potential.
I am not Angela Gilnems.
(02:04):
I am her friend and ex-colleague from Florence Healthcare.
My name is Jia Ganesh and we're switching things a little bit today with her podcast.
I'm going to be in her seat asking her the questions because we want to get to knowAngela.
There's so much to this amazing lady that you all should know.
You've all learned a lot from her as she interviews and talks to other people.
(02:25):
But this lady is amazing in so many ways that cannot be described in an hour.
but we're going to try and see how we can capture the depths of it at least to a certainextent.
So Angela, welcome to your own podcast.
Thank you.
I feel a little nervous right now.
I'm going to change it to, I feel a excited, a lot excited.
(02:46):
But thank you.
You're going to be fine.
Until I feel at home in your own home, in your own podcasting studio.
But thank you for giving me this opportunity for, you know, firstly, spending an hour withyou is really I love spending time with you, as you know, and then getting to know you a
little bit more.
And I want you to share with your podcast listeners things that they don't get to hearbecause you keep asking people questions, right?
(03:07):
OK.
Are you OK?
Yeah.
I want to start with be brave, be badass.
Okay.
said that ever since know you for the past seven years I think six seven years and eversince I've known you you've said that phrase you have to tell us what that means how you
came up with it why that is your motto for life
That is such a great question.
(03:28):
So as many things, kind of stumbled onto it in a time in my life where I just neededencouragement.
So I created that hashtag about 14 years ago.
it was when I first started doing triathlons and so marathons, triathlons and exercising.
(03:49):
And I became really, really passionate about motivating other people that they could alsodo it.
Right.
How many times do we see
someone do something and we think I could never do that.
Yes.
Okay.
And it's typically we absolutely can do that if we really want to, right?
And so I started understanding this idea that each of us individually we have our own
(04:15):
personal badass, and what does that mean?
It is our absolute personal best at that time and stage in our life.
And what my badass is, is different than what yours is, Gia.
But we each have our own personal badass, okay?
And the thing that I've realized is that oftentimes we as humans are afraid to try andstrive towards that.
(04:40):
And so Be Brave, You Badass is really an encouragement to everyone to not be afraid, to bebrave and really capture and live your personal badass because you only live once.
And, you know, it's like that poem, The Dash that I share with a lot of people, you know,you only live once.
so using that opportunity to absolutely be your best.
(05:02):
And now it's evolved with the AGM group into helping teams, companies and organizationsalso be their absolute best.
Awesome.
Thank you for sharing that.
You know, it's easy to say that, right?
Like it's easy for me to say to you or for you to say to me, be brave and be badass.
But how can we be brave?
Because many of us do have inhibitions that don't let us be brave and to be badass, right?
(05:26):
Like I know what I should be doing or could be doing, but I have my own set of impostersyndromes that hold me back.
How have you overcome that?
Or do you kind of fake it till you make it?
What strategies do you use to help people break through those kind of barriers?
I love this.
So one thing is I strongly believe that we don't give ourselves anywhere near the grace.
(05:50):
We give other people.
And so oftentimes I feel as if I'm judging myself that I can't do something.
I'm being way harsher than I would ever be for somebody else.
So at the stage where I finally learned to A, sit back and stop living for other people tojust live for myself and
(06:12):
also learned that the idea of being brave and being badass doesn't mean you're alwaysawesome.
It means being the best you can at that moment or at that stage in your life.
And so there could be a stage in your life where you're sick a lot or you have strugglesor whatever, right?
(06:33):
And it doesn't look as glorious and amazing to you.
And you may think this isn't badass at all.
However, if every day you get up,
And you say, I'm going to do the best I can do today.
That's it.
I heard this on a movie.
There's a reason you have eyes on the front of your head, right?
And not in the back.
Live forward.
(06:54):
And so really, for me, it's because I've had a lot of pivots in my career as well.
It's really just been, OK, let me center in today.
and what is the best I can do today and what's holding back.
And I think as far as the imposter syndrome and also thinking I'm not sure I can do this,that or the other, I think a couple of things that have really made a big impact in my
(07:20):
life is surrounding myself with amazing people.
So I try and steer away from, you know, the people that their glass is, it's not evenalways half empty.
It's like three quarters empty to them, right?
mean, it's just like, it's exhausting to be around.
And I've really transitioned to staying with people who are also trying to live their bestlife.
(07:44):
Not saying you have to be fake and all of that, but you can be authentic and true.
And then when I surround myself with those people, I started having people affirm me inthe same way I was affirming them.
And the power of encouraging someone else, we forget.
Like if you do nothing else, if listeners, watchers, if you take nothing from
(08:08):
but that the power that you have to really say something incredibly motivational that caninspire someone else is huge.
And it's really easy on our end.
And so by really focusing, giving myself grace, by focusing on the day, in the moment, andalso surrounding myself with people who lift me up, who people who help me learn, grow.
(08:32):
aspire and people who believe in me and affirm me, that's really allowed me to traversemany rocky roads and challenging times.
That's awesome.
Especially given that yesterday was International Women's Day.
I know you have a lot of inspiring women in your life who are part of the circle.
Can you talk to us about one person and how they inspired you to be this brave, badasslife that you live today?
(08:59):
You don't have to name the person.
this.
love this.
You know, I think that...
I think that a couple of things.
One, I have within my family, I've had several really strong women in my family who reallysupported me.
you one example is my aunt Connie, like they have nurtured and loved me my entire life.
(09:25):
I mean, I am the daughter that they never had, right?
And they always believed in me and said loving things to me.
and now that I see them caring for
my 101 year old grandmother and the other grandmother is I believe 94 or 95 and they bothlive in their house and they're caring and loving for them.
(09:48):
I think that amount of servitude and love for family has been really inspiring.
I've had...
So I would say that I had another aunt that when I was young, I was one girl and I hadthree brothers.
And when she was raised, she was the girl with the three brothers.
(10:08):
And we used to have this phrase, us girls have to stick together.
And I remember that.
mean, that is the earliest, probably one of the earliest phrases in life I remember ishearing her constantly say that.
girls have to stay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think that in looking at the way these two aunts of mine are very different, butthey really, really supported me being a female and wanting me to be my best.
(10:36):
And oftentimes, unfortunately, we see women who don't lift up other women.
And I think actually if I were to pick one person that inspired me to be my best, it wouldbe because she was not her best.
And I had this instance when I worked at Medtronic, was really the big reason I leftMedtronic is that I had a female manager who was just awful.
(10:58):
She was one of those that was like, wait, Angela might get promoted and might do well.
I'm gonna do everything I can to hold her back.
And it was really an awful experience.
And I observed that and I thought, you know what, never, never will I do that.
I will do everything I can to help.
And I don't just help women, right?
(11:19):
I want to help anyone grow.
But I specifically will do anything I can to help women who are willing to empower otherwomen.
Okay, Angela, you you've been big about community always, and you brought that same kindof mental attitude towards building companies as well.
You did that at Florence, you've done that at other organizations, you've gone on to buildafter Florence as well.
(11:43):
And I know you often mentioned Steve Wozniak's book in your...
podcast.
I don't recall you mentioning that book when we worked together at Florence, but youalready had that attitude about white glove customer service.
That was a phrase that I'd heard from you the most, you know, like after the ritz of theworld, ritz coulters of the world, you were the only one who doesn't matter what we do, we
(12:06):
have to provide white glove customer service.
So tell us a little bit about how you cared so much about building a community where weprovided white glove customer service and ensure that we had that community feeling inside
and with our customers.
I love that.
love that.
Well, you know what's funny is you didn't hear me mention Steve Wozniak's book thenbecause he had not written it yet.
Exactly.
(12:26):
And he published his book in 2023.
And the thing that was really I caught on to with his book is that it reminded me so muchof Ken Blanchard's book, Raving Fans.
It was published in 1993.
And that was very purposeful.
If you watch the interview, you guys should go watch episode one of the podcast.
And but I think, you know, reading
(12:49):
raving fans really had a big impact on me.
But even earlier in life, I always had this mindset that anything you do, you should doyour absolute best.
So if you're busing tables at McDonald's, you should be the best table bus person.
I also knew that I had experienced how much better it feels when you can smile and behappy with people.
(13:13):
And I think, you know, I remember when I was in college, I worked at a jewelry store and Ijust wanted to talk to the customer.
I wanted them to feel at home and to be a part of any community that we were in.
And then I observed instances where I started to identify my own brand loyalty based onhow people made me feel.
(13:33):
Like the restaurants I would go to because they would remember what I wanted to drink orwhat my meal was or they'd ask about my daughter.
I quickly picked up, like, wait, I'm going back to these places or REI and their return.
I would rather pay more money and buy something from REI and know that I'm covered andthere's going be no questions asked.
(13:58):
And so I think as I started doing this and then when I was at Medtronic specificallyworking with these nurse coordinators at hospitals who were super busy, I also learned
that if you make life easy for them, then when you need them to actually fill out theirdocuments, they're more willing to do it for you because you actually care about them.
(14:20):
And you have recognized how busy they are.
You've seen them as a human.
And it really helped me realize just that people want you to succeed when they know youcare about them.
And so when Ryan Jones recruited me to Florence, the White Glove customer service and thehealthcare and then building great teams, those were my three pillars the entire time.
(14:46):
I was like, absolutely, we have to have these things because I know if we can deliverthese three things, we will be successful.
People will want to see you be successful.
And how great is that when customers are fighting for you to be successful?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm going to switch a little bit between personal and professional to make the episodeinteresting.
(15:07):
You spoke about doing the best you can at everything you do, right?
Like whether it's busing tables or anything else that you do, you have to be the best youcan.
But does that also mean that you're striving for perfectionism?
Does that hold some people back?
What do you think's on striving for the best, but not being hindered by perfectionism?
totally, totally.
My favorite phrase is don't let perfect be the enemy of good, Voltaire.
(15:30):
And I was lecturing a class at Georgia Tech on Friday, and it's on project management.
Students were getting so nitty gritty into something that I was like, whoa, wait.
The point of you learning project management is to have an overall path towards successwhere you're moving that way.
You cannot let perfect be the enemy of good because if you try and make every singledetail, you'll just drive yourself insane.
(15:53):
And I think it's the same thing about trying to be perfect in things in life is that A, noone else is perfect.
So I'm not sure why we think we have to be because we give them the grace.
like, it's totally fine that that bowl that's wood turned is a little off edge there.
If it's their bowl, but if it's my bowl, no, it's gotta be perfect.
(16:17):
And I think that having the idea of understanding there's beauty in things that are notperfect because it means that they were made by someone, not by a machine.
There's beauty in slowly growing.
It takes 10,000 hours to be an expert in something, right?
So your chapter one is never going to look like somebody else's chapter 10.
(16:43):
And so I think that being able to laugh at ourselves, we make mistakes and realize it'snot our own personal identity.
Some of those things have really helped me over the years expand.
There have been times I'm, you know, there are times I'm absolutely a perfectionist.
Like if it's a PowerPoint deck and I see a mistake on it, I'm just like, my gosh, how didthat get out?
(17:05):
being different.
Yes, listeners, you do, the fonts cannot be different.
If we're using sentence case, you have to continue using sentence case or title case, usetitle case.
my gosh.
So, but I think that it's also taking a step back and saying, okay, what does success looklike in this instance?
(17:26):
Success is not perfection.
Cause that's top.
typically a lack of just passion in it.
So success is growing, getting a little bit better.
And I think maybe one thing that really helps me later in life were the more randomhobbies I would pick up.
I suddenly realized like, I'm not gonna make a perfect knife blacksmithing or like I said,a perfect bowl.
(17:47):
And if I strive, if perfection is the only thing that will make me happy, I will bemiserable.
And so I really want to get to also I think,
If you want to break your perfectionism at some point, get to a point where you'reblacksmithing and something looks a little off and you're like, I'm going to keep fixing
it.
(18:07):
And then you burn it up in the coal.
And you're like, OK, now that was actually perfect.
This is what it was before.
But when you realize that sometimes in life, and I think this is a good thing to thinkabout in life, sometimes in life when we try and push for perfection, we actually just
burn up the joy and the beauty of it.
(18:27):
And in case you're wondering why she's talking about blacksmithing, it's because out ofthe million hobbies she has, one of the hobbies is blacksmithing, and we'll get to it in a
bit.
But back to Florence and Medtronics and some of the other organizations.
Angela, you were also very keen on hiring people that were coachable, and people whoexhibited, and even when you interviewed me, that was one of the things you said that
(18:51):
really helped me move forward in the process because I was coachable, willing to takefeedback.
Tell us a little bit about that.
and how you've taken feedback from others and how that has helped shape your life.
Love it, it.
Yeah.
I remember your interview.
That must have been seven or eight years ago.
seven, yeah.
Okay, and yeah, I think here's the deal.
(19:13):
If, let's go back to the perfection thing.
No one's perfect.
Exactly.
No one is perfect.
And the beauty in life, I think, is surrounding yourself with people with different skillsand having the ability to learn and grow by being surrounded by them, right?
It would be really boring to be surrounded just by a hundred Angelas that all did theexact same thing.
(19:33):
We would never grow.
And so the coachable part is that if you're coming into an organization and you're notwilling
to grow and learn from the people you were spending more time with than your family.
mean, literally these are the people that you're spending the majority of your time duringthat tenure with.
(19:54):
If you're not gonna be a lifelong learner and you're not gonna wanna learn and grow andcontinually become better, then that's a pretty sad life.
And a lot of people live in that world.
I think a lot of people live in that world because they do have fear that they're gonna bediscovered that they're not perfect.
So here's the secret.
Who isn't perfect?
You're already discovered.
You were born.
(20:14):
So you're not perfect.
And I think coaching on the other realm has times where it's been
easy and great and other times where it's been hard.
So I would say that the coaching I loved is when I could get people who reported to me togive me feedback, which you know that's really hard.
And I remember this one employee at Florence who I could not get her to give me feedback.
(20:38):
And I was like, OK, look, you just said you love when I give you feedback and you'regrowing.
And yet by you not giving me feedback, you're
you're basically not allowing me to grow at all.
Like you're kind of screwing me over.
So I said, I want you to go home and your homework is to come back on Monday and tell mesomething I need to grow and learn.
And she did and it was a great experience.
(20:59):
I think those kind of times when you, people around you and you consider the fact thatthey're giving you the feedback because they actually care, they're not being spiteful,
they actually care.
I think those are amazing moments.
Now.
The times that I've gotten feedback, the struggles when you get feedback from someone youdon't respect and someone that you really do not believe they have your best interests in
(21:25):
mind, and that's the hard part.
And so one of the things that I've tried to do when that happens is I've said there's thispsychology that says, really, not always, but a lot of times if someone says something
about you or in way and it really upsets you,
that you really should lean into that, because it's probably something that's true thatyou're being super defensive about.
(21:50):
So what I've tried to do more recently when I've had some of these instances is said, OK,one, it's not about them.
I don't care who they are, right?
Is there any piece of this that I can absorb and hear?
Because they may even be saying it to me out of spite.
(22:11):
but there are gonna be a lot of people in the world who just don't like you.
And if you just have a perspective of how you're viewed by different people, then A, Idon't believe you should change yourself to be viewed perfectly by everyone.
So I do not want that to be the message, but understanding how that is and then making adecision like, yes, this is who I am and this is what I'm gonna stay with.
(22:32):
Or you know what?
I could.
probably address this situation a little bit more gracefully that would help people fromdifferent areas.
So I think that is the hardest part is when you get feedback from people you don'trespect.
I think also if a listener is in an experience like this, then I would also say to them,are you at the right place you should be working at?
(22:54):
Maybe it's time for you to transition somewhere else and work with people that you reallyrespect and then take their feedback.
You currently work at Bylaw.
Do you see entrepreneurs, upcoming entrepreneurs that are willing to take feedback or isthat something that holds them back because they think they already know or haven't
figured out?
(23:15):
Both, both.
So yes, I am brand new at BioLocity, which is a philanthropic organization through, it'sfunded through Georgia Tech and Emory and through endowments and grants.
And the goal is to help commercialize things that have intellectual property at eitherGeorgia Tech or Emory.
So faculty, staff, or students who have developed something amazing.
(23:38):
And the goal of the program is to get it to patients as quickly as possible.
And so I can think of some of the teams that are amazing.
They come to us and they are like, okay, should we, even simple things, should we do anLLC or should we do a C-Core?
Should we do this?
What should we do for our key net?
And they're really seeking to help.
(24:00):
Or they're like, can we practice our pitch deck with you?
Or you say something, you're looking at their slides and you say, okay,
your slides look like you're presenting at a research conference.
You're trying to get money.
So stop presenting that way.
Let's present how you're selling to VC.
And they will love it, and they'll take it.
(24:21):
And then you have some who will hear you, and you'll try and coach them.
And they'll say something.
And you may say, OK, whatever you do, do not say that to a VC.
And then they'll get into this defensive mode where they're like, of course, I would neversay that to VC, but I'm going to say that here.
Well, you and I know the words that we use in times like that are what you end up saying,right?
(24:46):
Because you get nervous.
That's what you're believing.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so this individual got really frustrated.
And I just reiterated to them, here's the deal.
I know for a fact.
that the words you say in meetings like this, if you don't practice the way that you needto for the customer, your next customer is going to be a VC.
(25:08):
then you are going to say that in that way.
So I'm sorry I'd upset you, but I'm gonna give you that feedback, because I wanna see yoube successful.
But it is really hard because I'm working with some brilliant people who are amazing, waysmarter than I could ever be, which I love.
So I'm constantly learning from them.
And then we have some teams that we may pull funding from, because they're not coachable.
(25:33):
And we're all about commercializing.
And if you're all about keeping your research in lab and adding all these bells andwhistles to it, then our partnership is probably not the right one.
So if there's a team, and actually we're in the middle of a funding round, and some of thestuff we're looking at with the teams we may fund are which ones are coachable.
(25:53):
Because if they're coachable at this stage, then we can help them be really great.
I think it goes back to what you and I have said for a long time.
Brilliant jerks do not work.
Yes!
Do not!
Yes, get rid of it.
important.
It's just not just being technically competent or brilliant is not enough.
We all have to be adaptable, coachable and agile and nimble in these times where we canalso collaborate well with others.
(26:17):
That emotional intelligence has to be high as well.
Remember you giving me a gift very early on.
Early on when I started.
It was a pair of socks that said, go on to make your next mistake, right?
Is that something along those lines?
Yeah, there's a rocket on it onto my next mistake or something like that.
(26:38):
Basically, you urge me to shed my perfectionist tendencies and to, you know, make progressand make my mistake and move on.
I wanted to bring the socks, but I could not find it.
I actually I bought myself a pair of those socks maybe a year and a half ago because Iremember I remember that story and so Yeah, I'm not sure I could find I'm not sure I could
(27:01):
run and find them really quick But well, we'll put a link in the show notes to the Amazonlink and then you guys can all purchase them
Yeah, the reason I brought that up is because, you know, that's helped me grow.
You know, that was feedback that was delivered in a fun way.
Talking about fun, Angela knows how to make things fun quite a bit.
Even at Florence, she did a little, you know, a lot of quirky little things she wouldbring into office.
(27:25):
She had these no buttons.
Do you remember the button?
where you press the button.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, so you've always infused fun into work even though you are delivering importantmessages fun has been a big part of your life What do you how do you coach people to have
that fun approach as you coach leaders and other folks through the agent group as well?
(27:51):
The reality is this, is that people engage more, open up more, and remember more when theydo things that have a spirit of fun to them.
If they laugh, there's something about the energy that you use to laugh.
And also, I think when leaders specifically do this, you're more human to them, right?
(28:16):
And it also allows us, know, the fun thing about the no button is I had quite a few teammembers who were horrible at saying no to things.
And I was like, read this book Boundary by Cloud and Townsend and here's a no button.
you know, it was a way that I wanted them to think about these things, but in a funmanner.
(28:38):
It's even, you know, for example, on Friday, we were teaching project management.
and we were splitting up into grooves, the comment came up, I made a whole bunch of funnypotential topics.
And I'm like, I want you to create a project on this funny thing.
I don't want to sit and watch some boring project that you're creating.
(28:58):
Let's have fun.
And we did.
We had a blast.
And I think that those moments when you engage the creative part of your brain along withthe other more analytical side, then the experience is more impactful and it lasts longer.
And people feel more at home and comfortable.
It also shows that you've been thoughtful, right?
(29:18):
It's not just an assignment.
You just said, hey, create a project plan, but you've taken the time to think through funtopics.
And sometimes you make it very personal as well, right?
Like you delivered poker chips to Kevin at one point, et cetera.
That shows that you've taken time to think about the person and make something thatresonates with them.
It goes a long way.
Everything that you do has that thoughtfulness.
(29:39):
Even your podcast studio, for example, is very thoughtful.
You've talked about a lot of leadership philosophies that you share with people, right?
And one of the things that I've seen you do very well is conflict resolution, right?
You've been in conflicts.
I've seen you've been in conflicts.
You and I have been in conflicts as well.
But I've seen the approach you've taken towards conflict resolution.
(30:00):
Can you share with your listeners and viewers what your approach is and how do you coachyour clients through the AGN group?
What is your philosophies on conflict resolution?
love that you're asking this question because multiple episodes of the Badass Leaderspodcast, we've talked about conflict.
And when I was a guest on Vicki's podcast, she's like, so you talk a lot about conflict.
(30:22):
Why do you like conflict?
I was like, I love this.
I love conflict.
And so I'll put a link to a snippet that I talked about on that.
So my philosophy is A, it was very much shown.
Initially, I learned so much from the book Radical Candor.
And another similar methodology is making of a manager.
(30:42):
It's a little gentler.
Radical Candor is a little more brash.
It's a little bit too much for some people.
But I think that when I think about conflict, there's a couple of things.
One, I think part of the reason I love conflict is that when
coming from an abusive childhood, I was never allowed to disagree.
So was never allowed to resolve any issues.
And so I would, over time, see the impact of people who were just quietly going along.
(31:10):
And I saw that it was stagnant, and it was hurtful, and people weren't happy, and youweren't really thriving.
And so the example when I talked to Vicki about conflict is,
As I said, you know, the thing is, is that we are all better when we take all the piecesof ourselves and collaborate together to come to.
(31:32):
And you're always going to agree, which we both know, right?
But if you keep all of those things in your head and they never come out, you don't, haveno idea the masterpiece you can create.
And the example I used was of a puzzle.
So imagine we're trying to do a puzzle together and you have a couple of key pieces thatyou've tucked away.
And I have a couple of key pieces, no matter
how hard we work, like we might get a square rectangle thing we can frame, but it's notgonna be a masterpiece.
(31:58):
However, if we bring those pieces together and present them and then talk and collaborateover them and then integrate what makes sense to integrate, wow, it can be so beautiful.
And so I think when I think of conflict, the first rule of conflict resolution is toremember,
that you should strive to get to understand the other person as a human being.
(32:22):
So understanding humans as humans.
The second thing is that whole adage, we have two ears and one mouth for a reason, is toreally allow the other person to share what their thoughts are.
And then the third, would say, is very a Brene Brown technique.
It's to then say back to them, OK, so what I heard you say was this.
(32:44):
Is that right?
and then allowing them to say, no, no, no, that's not what I meant.
I meant this.
And there is something that's powerful in the mind when someone allows you to restatesomething and really cares and wants you to clarify.
Then suddenly, instead of, I really want the word conflict to not feel like a cuss word topeople.
(33:07):
think a lot of people cringe over it, right?
Yes.
And I really want it to be something like when the conflict happens, this is ouropportunity to make something much more beautiful.
So let's sit in the moment and do it and respecting the other person by doing that.
tell you a couple a couple of rounds of making sure.
(33:30):
Yes.
OK, is this what you meant?
And then you finally get to yes.
And I say, OK, well, when when this happened, the story in my head was this that or theother.
course, typically the other person's like, that's not what I meant at all.
Right?
Exactly.
And then you start to realize that oftentimes the stories we tell ourselves in our headaren't reality.
(33:50):
And once again, while having healthy conflict allows us to work through that and reallyhave, I mean, some of the best relationships I have are ones that we've had healthy
conflict with.
And I say healthy in that it's a two-way street.
It's listening to understand on both ends.
It's not raised voices or anger or things like that, but it's really striving towards agoal of wanting what's best.
(34:17):
Angela, you touched briefly upon your childhood.
If you don't mind telling us your journey through childhood and how that shaped you to bewho you are and how that's also helped you adapt this badass philosophy that's running
your life today.
Yeah, so I was the, really the third child of my parents.
(34:39):
My parents got pregnant in high school.
Their first child was born early, and I'm not sure if he was stillborn, but he was bornwith disabilities and either was stillborn or died very quickly.
Interestingly enough, at seven months, which was the same time that I lost my first child.
And then my mom got pregnant very quickly and had a boy, she was really happy.
(35:00):
Unfortunately, my mother, her whole life had struggled with mental health issues.
And so she...
Her, she had found her father had died by suicide and she was the one that had found him.
And it had other replicate, replicate or what are the words that I'm looking, what is thewords?
Implications, repercussions.
(35:20):
Yeah, exactly to her and her own life that caused abuse for her.
And so she had developed this where she really didn't like herself.
And so when she was pregnant with me, she was, she told my aunt who'd been struggling tohave kids,
who was on fertility treatment.
She didn't want to have a girl.
And my aunt had shared that she did want to have a girl.
(35:42):
And if so, she would name her Angela.
And so then I was born.
And my mom named me Angela, despite her sister-in-law.
And now the beauty of this is that my aunt and uncle ended up having two boys.
And they did not have a daughter.
And I ended up being their daughter.
They are literally parents to me now.
And so that was a gift.
(36:03):
anyways, so when you have a child though that is raised up with a mother who can't standherself and therefore can't stand this little girl, I was brutally abused very badly for
the first, I guess maybe four years of my life.
And they used to, they kept calling Child Protective Services to come in.
And then of course they would come in, were like, nothing's wrong.
(36:23):
Until my mom broke my nose really badly and then they couldn't hide it.
And there are all these court hearings.
When I was a teenager, I came across the tapes.
This was back when we had tapes, right?
I came across the tapes and I would listen.
It was really crazy as a teenager to hear your voice in a court recording from that young.
(36:43):
So anyway.
But I really struggled growing up because then I had a whole bunch of abuse from my fatherand one of my brothers.
And yet somehow I just knew that I was good.
I knew that I was a good person.
And despite all the negative things people were saying to me, I was just like, no, I knowI can do this and I will.
(37:07):
And I think that really just having that inner fire.
really kept me to that and every time I did had so many obstacles and so many pivots but Ijust never gave up never ever ever gave up and I think that has been kind of my calling
card is saying you know I'm not going to give up and then the biggest beauty was maybe my30s when I suddenly realized I'm spending all this time
(37:33):
trying to make my parents proud of me.
Why am I doing that?
Like, seriously?
And then I just let go and I was just like, I'm just gonna be my best self.
And you know what, to be my best self, I will say that growing up, I did a lot of servicewith the church and I loved serving and I've been on many mission trips to different
countries and I love helping communities and doing that.
(37:55):
And so I think at the stage where I suddenly said, I don't need to have other people, makeother people happy.
I can be myself.
And I can keep looking forward.
I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm going to keep looking forward and I can give love toother people.
And through that, find much joy that that really, I that's when we got to be bravelybadass.
(38:16):
My whole point wasn't for me in the beginning.
It was that.
I saw so many other people that were like, I could never do this.
And I was like, yes, you can.
And I really just wanted them to use my legacy, my legacy to be helping other people betheir best.
Because when I do that, it just brings me so much joy.
(38:37):
Yeah, lot to unpack there.
Also, even your story through your Georgia Tech years, when you went and got your degreewith Rihanna, I want you to share that with your leaders.
there's so much there, Angela.
It's so inspiring.
It gives everybody hope.
(38:57):
It doesn't matter what circumstance you are in.
You can rise above the situations.
I'd love for you to talk through how you went through college with Rihanna as a singleparent.
Yes, yes.
So I decided at 29 to go back to school to get my engineering degree with a special need.
She was two years old and she had physical speech and occupational therapy three times aweek.
(39:20):
And I went to Georgia Tech to get my degree in biomedical engineering.
And I had so many people tell me, including my ex-husband, her dad, that I would nevergraduate.
I couldn't do it.
Like I couldn't do it by myself and whatever, which...
once again, felt like, please tell me I can't do something and then I will show you how Ican do it.
And so, I just, I had to live in graduate and family housing.
(39:48):
I...
could, the only amount of student loans I could get were the exact same amount that mybaby brother who was living in a dorm with three other guys could get.
And I had, you know, daycare.
I did get alimony for a couple years because I had helped put my ex-husband throughschool.
But I couldn't work a job because I had my daughter and I didn't have any money forchildcare and it wouldn't make sense.
(40:12):
I had to pay for childcare while I was in school.
Fortunately, I got a job working in a research lab that I worked in almost the entire timethat I was there and that really helped me and gave me a little bit of income.
But I think I just was so determined to provide a great life for my daughter and formyself that I worked really, really hard.
(40:34):
I remember it'd be so funny because we would do team projects and then...
typically, mostly boys, and they would, they'd like, I didn't have time to do my part ofthis project.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
Like, I don't even start doing any homework until eight or nine o'clock at night aftertaking care of my child and doing all of these other things.
(40:56):
But I think that sometimes sometimes the things that are the hardest or the things we wantthe most and we work the hardest towards achieving.
And so I really I wanted that degree.
I wanted highest honors.
And I also I think part the other part that really made my time at Georgia Tech andGeorgia Tech completely changed my life.
I'm so grateful.
(41:17):
And I think it was also I was coming through at a great time because the program was newand
we didn't have the scholarships, the grants, the awards and stuff that the otherengineering disciplines had.
And it was really quite frustrating because we would go to the women in engineeringbanquet and all of these electrical engineering or chemical engineering, they would get
(41:40):
all these scholarships and grants and biomedical engineering get nothing.
And it was really because oftentimes those are sponsored by alumni with that, right?
And the program was too new for that.
But I was like, is, no, we can't do this.
And so my happiest moment was starting these annual awards for Georgia Tech biomedicalengineering students.
(42:01):
And I just was showing Kajal them on Friday.
Now it's a whole wall with plaques.
I was like, before me, like these were not here.
There is none of this.
And it was just being able to, during that time, give back and also start creating alegacy of
gratitude and appreciation and acknowledgement of hard work of other people.
(42:24):
And by doing that, I was really lucky that I got the overall best student award.
It was the category that include research, leadership, community service, and academics.
And so I received that award, which I was really shocked because I thought by being theperson who was creating this whole program, no one would ever like.
nominate and then vote for me.
(42:45):
So then when my name was announced, I was like, my gosh, this is amazing.
But I will say that I just kept doing the next best thing that I could and trying hard forthe moment and then moving to the next thing and trying hard for the moment.
and then moving to the next thing.
that's really one of the reasons that I loved Ironman racing is in long distance racing isthis whole mindset of, okay, just keep going another mile and then another mile and then
(43:13):
another mile.
And plus I had this passion for engineering and healthcare.
And so was at the forefront of that, but I really thrive there and have so much gratitudefor it.
You've gone on to give back a lot to Georgia Tech.
Tell us a little bit about what you've done.
Yes, so I at one point was on the biomedical engineering external advisor board.
(43:35):
I was then chair of the external advisor board, which was really great too, because then Igot to bring some amazing people onto the board to help grow the program.
And then I am currently on the College of Engineering board.
And I also serve on the board to the president, which is the Georgia Tech Advisory Board.
And I give two scholarships each year that one is to a student that wants to go studyabroad.
(43:58):
I strongly believe, like, get out of your country and go experience the world.
My whole world changed the first time I left the US.
And then the other one is to fund students that want to work at a startup that can'tafford to pay for an internship.
And so will give them a grant so then they can go.
And why?
Because I saw at Florence, like, when we had these interns, we gave them a real project.
(44:23):
That was my rule, right?
Yep.
You have a real project, we're not micromanaging you, you're gonna have something to showat the end.
And the value of that for anyone then adding that to their career is huge.
But also, a lot of times students need to be able to make that money to pay for housing.
Going back to my Georgia Tech days, I floated most of my education on credit cards becauseI could only, that was the comment about the financial aid.
(44:49):
It's like I can't get enough financial aid to survive.
And they said,
if you have more, then you're still gonna have to pay it off later.
And I remember exactly where I was sitting and I looked at the lady and I said, you dorealize I'm just flooding this from credit card to credit card.
I'm still gonna have to pay it off later.
So I graduated with $80,000 of credit card debt that I eventually paid off.
(45:10):
But yeah, trying to navigate through all of that just continue to really give meappreciation for other people and made me stronger.
So in the 20 years since Georgia Tech, your life has taken quite a few turns.
Angela, today you are the proud owner of AGN Groups.
(45:31):
You have gone on to empower so many leaders through the AGN Group as well.
Tell us a little more about what kind of clients you work with, what kind of things do youdo with them?
I know you're also doing a lot of work through Chief.
What kind of services can people avail from you?
Yes.
well, a one of my most fun things is to work with individuals on their own personalbranding.
(45:54):
And I kind of fell into my own brand.
Like, as I mentioned, be brave, be badass.
I fell into that.
And I actually didn't realize people were identifying with me as my brand until every timeI kept getting all these badass gifts.
I saw this and thought of you.
And I was like, that is amazing.
Right.
And so that I love working with individuals that are trying
(46:17):
to determine what their personal brand is, because there's so much power in that.
After you've identified who you are as a human and what you want to accomplish, then itreally helps you focus on the areas that are really going to make you happy and
successful.
So I love to do that.
I also love to do team building exercises and to go into groups.
So really help.
(46:40):
I think that if you're running a company, you need to have someone come from outside thecompany to do some of these team building exercises so that they can then observe and give
you feedback you're not gonna see inside.
So I really love to do that.
And then personal coaching for individuals that are trying to navigate through theircareer or they may wanna start a podcast or a blog or something like that to help them
(47:05):
understand how they can begin to give back in a way that's meaningful to them.
It's really important because what's meaningful to me is very different than what'smeaningful.
I'm working with my cousin right now on his brand.
What's meaningful to him is very different than what it is for me.
But really, I just want to be able to live this life in all these different areas,including Chief is lifting up other women leaders, is that I really just want to be able
(47:31):
to say, I did my best to try and give.
the love, compassion, and support to other people that I didn't get when I was younger andreally needed.
And then when I got it later in life, I really was able to thrive.
And I can see that difference in me.
So the opportunity to give that to other people so that they can thrive is really amazing.
(47:54):
You've spoken a lot about your personal and professional life, but I want to explore theother dimension, which is you somehow make time for a million other hobbies.
And I know it's a big part of your life because it adds more dimension and color to yourlife.
So tell us a little bit more about how you got started in exploring hobbies.
How can people make time for hobbies?
(48:14):
Because most often when you hear people, at least in their midlife times, they say, Idon't have time for hobbies.
How do you make time for 10 hobbies?
Yes, well, fortunately I don't do them all at the same time, which is good.
And I think that's part of it, right?
Is that remembering that there's a season for things in your life.
And you've heard me say this, but every time you say yes to something means you're sayingno to something else.
(48:36):
So choose your yeses wisely.
I think that, you know, some of, I love blacksmithing, I love woodturning, I just startedbeekeeping, which I'm really excited about.
And I think it ties to a couple things.
One, being a lifelong learner.
And...
I just get inspired by learning new things and crafting new things.
(48:56):
The other is actually very, all of those are very stress-reducing, stress-relieving andtherapeutic.
And so it is that outlet and you could use that outlet.
I see some people use it, scrolling through Facebook and all these other things.
I don't do that.
And so I think that it ties back to the time piece of it.
(49:19):
We make time for things that are really important to us.
And so I would encourage, it's really healthy to be a life, like research shows if youcontinue to learn throughout your life, you'll live longer, reduces a lot of mental
challenges and issues with dementia and stuff like that can be reduced by being a lifelonglearner.
(49:41):
So I would encourage you to pick something that you wanna do.
blacksmithing was because I was going to John C.
Campbell with Guy Griswold when we were dating and he was taking woodturning and I waslooking through all the classes and I was like, blacksmithing?
I wanna do that.
I also love to make things to give as gifts and I love to make gifts that people will keepforever.
(50:05):
And so when I was pregnant with Rihanna, I learned to quilt.
And so I did a lot of quilting back then.
If you make a quilt for someone, they're not going to get rid of it.
And so then with blacksmithing, I was just like, this sounds cool.
And I also like to do things that are not typical girl things.
do this to boundary.
(50:27):
Most people are like, blacksmith?
That is badass.
I'm like, yes, right on brand.
scared.
I registered for it and then I was like what if I hate it or what if I'm awful at it andactually on day two I got horrible third degree burns on my fingers.
I don't know that they were third whatever they were horrible horrible burns.
(50:49):
Tenth degree burns.
I'm just gonna make up a number and I had already fallen so much in love with it that Iwas like taping it up with duct tape and let's go.
We're gonna and the instructor who Pat he was amazing.
He still will message me.
He was just like I really thought you weren't coming back.
the next day after I saw those birds, right?
I was like, nope, I'm in here.
(51:09):
I'm going to do it.
And so I think it's really empowering.
And also you're banging on metal.
So if you're mad at something, take a hammer and bang on some metal, right?
So it's really pausing when you do those things.
And your hobbies could be anything.
It could be hiking in nature.
Like I've hiked all over the world.
There was a period of time where hiking was a big part.
(51:30):
There was a period of time when Ironmans, I did six Ironmans.
That was my hobby.
So I think it's also when it's okay to say to yourself, what do I want to experience in myhobby at this stage in my life?
And then digging in and doing it.
And quite frankly, I believe if someone else can do it, I can do it as well.
Now, I may not be able to do it as well as them.
(51:53):
It may not be perfect.
I'm just like, will not.
It's going back to our earlier conversation.
But you know what?
At some point, everyone is a beginner at some point.
And so you just have to decide, are you gonna have your beginning day today, 20 years fromnow or never?
Because 20 years from now may never come.
Do you, is it okay to give up on a hobby and go to the next one?
it's not bringing you joy, and I think that's a big thing, right?
(52:18):
If it's not bringing you joy, or maybe if it's too expensive, right?
Or maybe you don't want, you know, I...
I took a long period away from blacksmithing because the shop I used had to move and Ididn't have a place to do it.
So I transitioned into woodturning instead.
And so I think really it's absolutely, you know, I think the reality is if you're gonnaturn away from a hobby, I would encourage you to pause and ponder and sit with why you're
(52:48):
turning away.
And if it's because you're just going through a lazy stage, think, am I going to regretthis 20 years from now?
Like, I'm trying to relearn how to play saxophone.
And I quit that when I was in ninth grade.
And it's a big regret that I have.
Like, I really wish I kept playing saxophone now.
So my saxophone is out in there for me to start playing saxophone again.
(53:09):
And so I think that, like anything in life, it's a stage and it's a time.
And if you're going to transition off of it to something else, remember a couple ofthings.
One,
Everything you say yes to means you're saying no to something else.
So choose that yes wisely.
Don't feel like you have to do a hobby for the rest of your life.
If you want to try something else and you only have so much time, jump in.
(53:32):
And you can always come back, hopefully sometime in the future.
But I think trying to not make, especially at our stage in life, to not make the hobby bethe chore.
So I think when the hobby starts to become a chore or you start to dread it or somethinglike that, then you're getting burned out.
So you need to evaluate why you're getting burned out and what you can change so you'renot burned out and you're enjoying it.
(53:53):
Because it should bring you peace, joy, fun, energy, not the other way around.
We're kind of almost at the near end of our episode here.
I'll just ask one more question before we go to our final question.
Tell us a little bit about burnout.
There was a stage when you felt burnt out or you were burnt out.
Tell us a little bit about how you recognized those signs and what did you do to get overthat stage.
(54:17):
Yes, yes.
I had a stage in running Florence when two thirds of the company was reporting to me.
And I will say I love the COO role because I just am very organizationally minded and Ilove the impact on the different departments that I could have.
But at that stage, the challenge that I see as a COO role is that...
(54:40):
you are constantly context switching.
A lot of other roles, so if you're head of product, you're focused on product the wholetime.
Or head of sales, or head of marketing, or oftentimes a CEO will be very sales andmarketing focused, and they're focusing on that.
But a COO is typically all over the place.
And it just got to the point where all the context switching...
(55:03):
all the challenges and all the different areas and trying to be the connector.
When you're the glue to a lot of other groups, then that is really exhausting and youdon't realize it, right?
Because you're just coming in and you're trying to bring people together.
When you're that person trying to bring people together, it takes even more energy than ifyou're just participating.
(55:24):
And so I suddenly realized, like I was getting sick a lot.
I was really ornery.
I kind of being bitchy at times.
You remember, I would go into meetings and I'd be like, okay, we're gonna solve this, dothis, and let's move on.
And I suddenly realized, like, I'm not being the human I really want to be, right?
And this is not healthy for me at all.
(55:46):
So I'm really grateful that...
I went to you and Ryan and to the board and was like, I need to take a sabbatical.
I need time off.
And so I did.
took six weeks off and I learned pottery, which I tried.
One thing I tried pottery, which I've done several times, but I'm like, pottery isn'treally my thing.
But I tried it because I was like, I want to do this.
(56:06):
I spent time yoga, meditation, got back into some of those healthy life practices that
And then when we came back, we were like, okay, she doesn't need to run two thirds of thecompany anymore.
Like some other people should step up.
And it was just a good reminder to myself once again of healthy boundaries and, you know,choosing what you're going to say yes to.
(56:28):
Thank you for sharing that because many of us are maybe even struggling with not evenrealizing that we are on the brink of burnout as such.
So thank you for sharing that.
Onto our last question for the day here, Angela, what is your favorite motivation?
like why do I not have it in here?
So it is something like that is the quote that I wrote is my life quote and that's everytime I can't remember exactly what it is but it is that when you were born you were giving
(56:58):
one opportunity to be yourself, to build a legacy, and to make a difference.
Make it count.
Thank you.
Thank you, Angela.
We've enjoyed this episode of Getting to Know Angela on the Be Brave, Be Badass podcast.
Thank you, listeners, for allowing me to share the space with this wonderful human being.
(57:22):
Thank you.
This is so much fun.
I love it.
Thanks for joining me for today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast.
To hear more interviews with industry experts and learn how to grow your career andleadership potential, be sure to like, subscribe and turn on notifications to ensure you
do not miss future episodes.
(57:44):
This podcast is a production of the AGN Group.
To learn more about the AGN Group, visit our website at theagngroup.com.
There you can discover more about our services, which include hosting workshops,management consulting, brand strategy, keynote speaking, and more.
Follow us on all social media channels shown on the screen and displayed in the shownotes.
(58:09):
And until next week, be brave and be badass.
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