April 30, 2025 • 66 mins
In this episode, Angela Gill Nelms sits down with Sherry Farrugia, Senior Vice President at Veranex, to unpack what it really takes to lead in today’s complex healthcare and life sciences landscape. From her decades in health IT to her work commercializing cutting-edge medical devices, Sherry shares the behind-the-scenes lessons that have shaped her leadership philosophy — one rooted in empathy, inclusion, and relentless innovation.
We dive into the challenges women face in STEM, how public-private partnerships can actually work, and why diversity isn’t just a checkbox — it’s the key to better solutions. Sherry opens up about the importance of a joint mission, the art of conflict resolution, and how to build sustainable teams in a fast-moving, high-stakes industry.
Learn more about Sherry at:
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Instagram: sherryfar723
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LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sherryfarrugia
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Website: www.veranex.com
About Angela:
Angela Gill Nelms is a trailblazer in the creation of exceptional companies and teams. She serves as the Director of Biolocity and is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of both The AGN Group and the Recovery Advocate Network. Previously, she held the position of Chief Operations Officer at Aetos Imaging, RenovoRx, and Florence Healthcare. With a Bachelor's degree in Biomedical Engineering from Georgia Tech, Angela has a proven track record of successfully navigating the FDA, leading diverse teams, prioritizing the needs of customers and patients, and building exceptional companies.
Angela shares her lessons learned around the country in keynote speeches, coaching, and team-building workshops. Learn more about Angela at www.AngelaGillNelms.com.
About The AGN Group:
At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. We offer keynote and panel speaking, leadership and team-building workshops, fractional and management consulting, brand and storytelling services. Email us at hello@TheAGNGroup.com to connect. Learn more at www.TheAGNGroup.com.
Social Media Channels:
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Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/73Dg8OQ7SqtGtSiCWQUfLB?si=c17c0f1abe29446f
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/badass-leaders-podcast-brave-hearts-brave-conversations/id1788987881
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Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2
Want to be a Podcast Guest?
If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com.
Learn more about the podcast at www.BadassLeadersPodcast.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There is no innovation without diversification.
mean, there's not.
Experience, male-female, I mean, if nothing else, your life experiences are what you drawfrom when you innovate, right?
So the fact that in today's world we're being told to not use words like diversity is, inmy opinion, I mean, almost terrifying because I am all about innovation.
(00:28):
Welcome back to the Badass Leaders podcast.
And today we have the pleasure of speaking with my friend and extraordinary leader inhealthcare innovation and business strategy, Sherry.
As the senior vice president of Varanek's preclinical services in North America, Sherryhas played a pivotal role in commercializing groundbreaking medical technologies with a
(00:53):
strong background in strategy, innovation, and public private partnership.
partnerships, Sherry is a visionary who knows how to turn ideas into sustainable success.
We're excited to dive into her journey, insights on leadership and the future of medicaltechnology.
Okay, if you're new to the podcast, welcome.
(01:16):
We are thrilled to have you here and enjoy growing with you.
So first off, thank you for taking time out of your busy day to learn and grow with us.
Secondly, before you
forget, please click that subscribe button to ensure you stay connected to the BadassLeaders community and you help us grow the community by subscribing.
(01:40):
If you leave a comment, I'll make sure to go in and personally respond to you.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback.
So are you ready?
Let's do it.
So join me, Angela Gil Nelms, on today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast, where I'mjoined
each week by industry experts for intimate and eye-opening discussions about thechallenges and joys facing the leaders of today.
(02:08):
Listen in and get ready to scale your company, grow your brand, and unlock your fullbadass potential.
Welcome to AGM Studios.
m
you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here and a little nervous to be interviewed by the great Angela.
(02:30):
Well, yeah, a little excited, excited instead of nervous because you're amazing.
we have, you know what I was thinking about is I actually can't remember how we gotintroduced.
So maybe you remember that because we've been friends for many years.
My daughter plays Pokemon with you.
(02:51):
She does.
I love her.
She's adorable.
I think it was at Florence.
I mean, because I was in Synergy at the time and I knew what you guys were doing.
It was really interested, you know, have a health IT background and we met then and thenwe just stayed in touch and we became great friends and
And life is amazing.
(03:11):
Yeah.
And I get to be very fortunate to interview you today.
So why don't we tell the guests who you are and why you're here today.
Sherry Ferruccia, I'm a Senior Vice President at Vernex, which is a company focused onmedical device commercialization.
We are a private equity backed company by Summit Capital.
I have spent my entire life in healthcare for more years than I care to tell the audience.
(03:38):
Well, so was like just 10 years maybe that's what we'll say so speaking of which goingback to I was so enthralled with that I was like, oh, where do I want to start?
There were so many things we could start with but why don't we first I like for at the AGMgroup were really passionate about Understanding humans as humans.
why don't we roll back the script just a little bit and tell us about who you are as ahuman being
(04:05):
Well, um I was actually raised in a small town in LA, lower Alabama.
I didn't know you were
Not from California, but I love to tell cab drivers in New York that.
uh And I was the youngest of three, first in my family to graduate from college, firstgeneration, went to Auburn University, got a degree in chemistry with a double minor in
(04:32):
physics.
that's the rest.
That's the early story, right?
There's a lot to tell after that.
And your hobbies are?
Um, you know, my hobbies, you know, is sitting on a bar stool with a glass of wine,watching your husband cook a hobby.
Absolutely, I think it can be.
(04:53):
I've perfected.
Other than that, I love to garden, I love to read.
ah And you know, at the point that I am in my life, I just love to spend time with myfamily.
Yeah, yeah, I can resonate with, you know, I mentioned earlier, my daughter is moving backfrom here.
And all I was thinking, all I'm thinking are all the things that we can do together,because she's always been my little sidekick.
(05:14):
So.
and you know, all my entire life I have always thought I have to be busy busy busy busybusy moving moving moving moving constantly right and um you know, I it's there's joy and
finally getting to the point in your life where you're like, you know what?
It's okay to just sit and do nothing for a little bit.
(05:36):
And that's where I am.
Yeah, I love it.
love it.
Okay, well, given the fact that both of us are spending our careers in advancing medicaltechnology and innovation, which we both are super passionate about, and we also are both
women, why don't we start with women in STEM and leadership?
So the official question is, as a woman of the year and the Technology Award recipient,congratulations.
(06:01):
Thank you.
What unique challenges have you faced as a female leader in STEM?
my gosh, that's an entire podcast.
um
I'm going to tell you a story.
when and by the way, I love Georgia Tech.
I think everyone knows that I've got, you know, two family alumni, one that soon will be.
(06:22):
So just know, even though this happened at Georgia Tech, I love Georgia Tech.
When I first started at Georgia Tech, we were they did kind of like a little reception forme.
And there were a lot of people there.
They asked me to introduce myself, introduce myself, very similar to what I just did here.
And someone came up to me afterwards, a male, and said, oh, a degree in chemistry.
(06:49):
I thought you had one of those fake degrees.
I was like, well, I don't understand what a MBA, apparently.
And I asked him, I said, and by the way, he became one of my best friends.
But I asked him, I said, did you think that because I'm a woman?
Do you think that women just go into business now?
(07:09):
No, that Georgia Tech,
graduates more female engineers than any other engineering institution.
And so I think there's this unconscious bias that women have worked really hard toovercome.
I think that probably everyone would tell you they've gone through periods of not beingtaken seriously.
(07:34):
There are plenty of examples of that.
uh
There's been plenty of examples of sitting in the room, giving a suggestion, here's anidea, being ignored, and then a male says it five minutes later.
my gosh, that's the best idea.
But you know, those are, there's ways to overcome that.
(07:55):
And instead of getting mad and angry and jaded, you just continue to move forward.
And I'm at a point now to where if that happens, I will say, excuse me, I said that fiveminutes ago.
Is there a reason why it wasn't a good idea five minutes ago, but it's a good idea now?
I love it.
Right.
And I think part of that, and you have a daughter, part of that is what message are wesending to the future generation of women if we don't do that?
(08:23):
And I made a decision, gosh, probably 10, 15 years ago that when I'm invited to speak,when I'm invited to
moderate when I'm invited to sit on a panel, the first thing I do is I go and look at theevent and I see how many male dominated panel, healthcare women, male dominated panels,
(08:49):
male dominated keynotes, and then I make the decision whether I'm going to support that ornot.
And I'm very clear with the person who invited me as to why I chose not to support.
I love this.
love this.
I'm thinking about, and everyone knows that I love Georgia Tech.
I bleed.
(09:10):
But I will tell you, I have a similar story in that I have been very blessed to havereceived two engineering awards from Georgia Tech.
you the first was a young alumni outstanding young alumni.
The second was a distinguished alumni.
(09:30):
when they have annual events to celebrate and on multiple years I would take my ex-husbandand other alumni would come up and shake his hand and ask what year he graduated,
completely ignoring me.
And I'm like, am I just like, am I not here?
Am I invisible?
(09:50):
It became a really big joke because I like you, I'm very.
confident and comfortable in my skin.
But it definitely has allowed me to become a better leader of both men and women.
Yes.
Because I can in the same instance when I'm in a room, typically I see where anotherfemale has said something and I see this happen and I get to be the one to speak up and
(10:14):
say, wait, she just said that.
Like, love it, you know, and to amplify her and support her and also help coach
them in because I think you really a very healthy leadership team brings in the best ofall of us.
100%.
(10:34):
I mean, I was hoping we'd talk a little bit about this, about diversity and innovation.
There is no innovation without diversification.
I mean, there's not.
Experience, male-female, I mean, if nothing else, your life experiences are what you drawfrom when you innovate, right?
(10:58):
So the fact that in today's world we're being told to not use words like diversity is, inmy opinion, I mean, almost terrifying because I am all about innovation.
I think about every team that I've ever had.
I'll you, remember when Steve Cross was the executive vice president of Georgia Tech?
(11:19):
Yes.
This was the one thing he preached was diversify, diversify, diversify.
m
If everyone in the room looks like you, Sherry, sounds like you, Sherry, has your lifeexperiences, Sherry, you will never find a solution.
it has stuck with me for years.
(11:41):
You know, I go back to my days, you I went back to school as a 29-year-old single mom witha special needs daughter because that's what people do.
For my capstone senior design project, mine was the very first ever interdisciplinarysenior design.
Yes.
And the reason is because I knew what I wanted to develop.
(12:01):
I wanted to develop a fully functioning closed loop hydrocephalus shunt that actually hadpressure sensors and was monitoring more than just by symptoms.
And- Life experience.
Yes, life experience.
And I went to Paul Bankesser and said, hey, I don't want-
four to five biomedical engineers who had taken the same classes that I've taken.
(12:23):
I want an electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer, computer science, and two BMEs.
And he said to me, well, if you can convince those departments to do it, you can do it.
so of course, I convinced those departments.
We had to do three presentations, three papers.
And the funny thing is that when we did our final presentation to the BME team,
(12:48):
several of the other teams were mad.
They were like, that's not fair.
She got to have that.
And he said, you know what she asked.
And when I was interviewing for jobs, graduating out of tech, I interviewed for threejobs.
I got all three job offers.
The minute I told them I had built a diverse team that had several cultures in it andengineers from these different disciplines, it was like, might drop.
(13:11):
Hire her right now because she knows how to collaborate.
I think the diversity part is
Learning how to collaborate with people who think differently and bringing the best out ofeach other.
Yes, and so it is the reason that public-private partnerships are so important.
Let's talk more.
Let's talk more.
That was on my list of questions.
Let's go for it.
(13:32):
It's because you bring that diversity and you bring different stakeholders in and youbring different life experiences and you also bring very different personalities.
Clinicians by nature, they're not engineers.
Now for my surgeon friends out there, I see you, okay?
(13:55):
I see you.
I know you're engineers at heart.
um But it is...
It really is what makes public private partnerships so strong.
you know, with the with with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta and Georgia Tech, we reallysaw that right.
oh And I tell the story and it's one about empathy.
(14:16):
And I believe that it that empathy is really the foundation of innovation.
You have to really.
OK, so imagine bringing a group of
clinicians and engineers together.
And what do clinicians do?
Clinicians have problems, right?
(14:36):
And they need, they don't need answers, they need solutions.
Right.
Right.
And so walking into a lab at Georgia Tech, a clinician slides a piece of paper across thetable, build me this.
Now, as an engineer, how might you react?
I don't build things, I solve problems.
Exactly.
(14:57):
Oh, well, I'm a failure at my job.
That's the first thing I thought was great.
you know, driving home that night, at the time I lived in Gwinnett County, so I actuallyhad to drive, I thought, you know, that was a terrible failure.
First time I tried to put these groups together.
And then that's when it dawned on me.
(15:19):
It's because the engineers have never spent time in an ICU.
Also,
We were in a conference room.
The clinicians had probably never been in a lab, a real lab, an engineering lab at GeorgiaTech.
Empathy.
So I put together a visit to ICU.
(15:40):
You can imagine a group of engineers walking into ICU at Children's Healthcare of Atlantaand they're in shock.
I mean, you know, they've never seen anything like that.
They immediately start to think about all the problems that they can solve.
The clinicians walking into a lab at Georgia Tech and going, wow, I guess you don't justtinker all day.
(16:02):
And that's the beauty.
That's really the beauty of diversifying your team.
You know, I love the comment about solving problems because I strongly believe that, I ofcourse have an engineering bias, I'm an engineer.
(16:24):
And when I mentor and I talk to them, I'm like, stop worrying about.
what your first job is going to be.
If you know how to solve problems and how to collaborate together to solve problems, thenyou can do anything.
You can pivot.
I've shown you can pivot.
I have too.
Right?
We both pivoted.
And I think that the collaboration between the clinician and the engineer is alsosometimes as ourselves, if we're a clinician, we may think we know the solution to the
(16:54):
problem and draw it out perfectly.
know the answer not the solution.
There you go, there you go.
And so challenging teams to do customer, you know, your five whys digging in, well why isthis a problem?
Why is that?
Why?
And getting to the root, then that's where innovation is.
100 % and you know, and it's also, and I guess this kind of goes back to, and we talked alittle bit earlier about the whole conflict resolution.
(17:24):
Yeah, I mean it.
It's always going to be an issue when you innovate and you diversify your team, right?
Because like you said, you have different cultures, you have different life experiences,you have different educations.
And.
different levels of confidence in your ability.
(17:45):
LPs.
And you know what?
You may have five engineers in the room and then all have a different idea of how to solvethe problem.
So you have, you know, it's like the meta-conflict, right?
Yeah.
It's not just the engineers and the clinicians conflicting.
It's, you know, your own team, your own individual group of engineers who are in conflict.
(18:08):
And I really struggled with that initially with this partnership.
oh But what I call it, everyone talks about what was your aha moment.
It wasn't an aha moment.
It was what I call, I've kind of coined the rah rah moment, that the first is that youhave to recognize that the cultures are very different, that we are different, that we
(18:33):
have different life experiences.
And that, you know, in this particular situation, that the...
um
The Children's Healthcare of Atlanta, know, culture is very different than, you know, aGeorgia Tech or really any engineering school culture.
You know, one is not zero.
You know, you don't want to make mistakes.
(18:54):
You do everything you can to prevent making a mistake in a clinical environment.
But engineers...
I want them to make mistakes because that's how they learn and grow!
You fail.
You fail fast.
You innovate.
You start over.
You have an answer.
Let's find the right solution.
I that's what we do.
And so you have to first just recognize and then get to a point of accepting that thecultures are different, but they're different for really good reasons.
(19:22):
It's not, I just want to be different than you.
It's because you don't want to cause harm to in a clinical setting.
um And then when you do that, you you really get to the point
to where you can, you you get to respect, you know, you get to, and then finally, when youclear that final hurdle, you get to the point of acceleration.
(19:49):
It takes time, and then you can accelerate innovation.
faster you fail on the front end, you want to find that big failure experiment, right?
Like what is the experiment that's going to be pass or fail at this point?
Get to there as quickly as you can.
And then when you get to a pass, well then light up the engine fuel and dig in to theexplosion of what you can do.
(20:10):
And it was amazing how quickly we were able to innovate because of that.
when having that common goal of what, why are we here?
It goes back to the whys.
Well, we're here to make the difference in the life of at least one child and stayingfocused on that.
(20:33):
love this.
Okay.
Conflict resolution.
The listeners know I love conflict resolution.
I am on my own personal mission to make the word conflict no longer a bad word or a...
It's not a bad word.
It's not.
But so many people, they hear the word conflict and their physical body reaction is likeknots in their stomach.
(20:56):
They start to sweat.
Their heart rate...
increases, they start to get a little bit of brain fog because they're not really surewhat path to go.
You can almost see them backing up in a room in your head when you see time completelyshut down.
And you and I have similar thoughts on conflict.
So and I know you have a story about it.
So tell me what your thoughts are on conflict resolution.
(21:17):
Well, I mean, I think it starts with common ground.
And I have so many stories on conflict.
You cannot run a public-private partnership without stories on conflict resolution.
But there was this one particular time, and it was extremely important that we get thisdone.
(21:37):
And I'm not going to divulge what it was, but um it had the potential to be lifesaving.
OK, so there was
staying focused on the gold, but there were not only human conflicts, there were legalconflicts.
And there were legal conflicts on both sides, and they were different.
(21:59):
Georgia Tech had their state agency.
The legal conflicts there are very different than if you are a children's healthcare, orany hospital, right?
And we were on a clock.
I mean, we had to, you know, I'm hearing from physicians, we've got to get this done,we've got to get this done.
And it was a tremendous amount of negotiation.
(22:27):
every time, here I go, hitting the mic again.
I see you, Eric.
And it was...
Every time we would deviate, I would bring us back to why we're doing this.
(22:48):
I mean, even to the point to where, you know, it was, let's talk.
I mean, not pointing the finger at anyone, right?
But as a group, can we live with ourselves if we don't do this?
If we don't get this done, can we live with ourselves?
And if the answer is no, then by God, let's get it done.
Right.
And ah
I love one thing really quick I want to highlight is you did an excellent job in thisstory in the real life example, right, of getting everyone on the same page on a joint
(23:20):
mission.
like pulled everyone back and said, whoa, wait, let's pause for a minute.
What is our joint mission?
Like, is that what success looks like this for all of us?
Right.
OK, now let's dig in again.
Yeah, I I think that's the key.
And I will tell you, I was very clear if you are not on board with this, then findsomebody who is.
(23:41):
Because it's the only way we're going to get it done.
And we did get it done.
Oh my gosh.
yeah, we got it done.
It almost killed me, but we got it done.
And I was driving home after a huge success with the impact on a child.
And Donna Hyland called me and she said, oh, I've talked to the, you know, I've talked tothe physicians.
(24:05):
They said, this would have never happened without you nine times, Eric.
And I said, well, I mean, I don't know if it would, whether that's exactly true, but I,but I did, you know, really work to keep everyone focused.
It was a team effort.
And, um, and she said something like, well, what's next for you, Sherry?
And I said, what's next for me is I'm going to go to DC and I'm going to, um,
(24:29):
I'm going to work on world peace and know kind of chuckle.
Right.
Right.
Well tell them to call me for a reference.
It was it felt like that many times.
DC could use someone working on World Peace.
Well, let's speak a little bit about another hot topic that I love, and it's thedifference between managers and leaders, because I want to also dig into your personal
(24:52):
leadership style.
And so let's kick off from your perspective.
What do you believe the difference between a manager and a true leader is?
Well, for me, a leader is someone who listens and who serves.
And a manager, in one word, is just someone who dictates.
(25:13):
it starts, again, for me personally, it starts with trust.
But you can't get there with trust without transparency.
And when I moved from being the CEO of the part of the Children's Healthcare of Atlanta ahpediatric technology center over to being the CEO of GCMI was a tough time and we were in
(25:38):
the middle of cove it.
I couldn't be.
actually didn't remember that was in the middle of COVID.
can remember how long you were at GCMI and tell the listeners what GCMI was.
Global Center for Medical Innovation.
And so I am meeting with the team.
Now, I did know many members of the team, Angela, but a lot of them I did not.
(26:00):
And I am meeting with them and introducing myself for the first time virtually on Teams.
It was a nightmare.
And uh the commitment that I made to them was that I would be transparent.
and that I would share successes, but I would also share failures with them.
And it took, I mean, it took months to gain trust, of course, a new leader coming in.
(26:25):
uh
you know when you've gained trust?
How does a leader know when they've gained trust?
knew when my door became a revolving oh
We've talked some in the episode with Drew Harden, he actually at Blue Compass, theiroffices have no doors at all.
(26:45):
And I love that because we've both worked with people who say, my door is an open door andit's never open.
And even if it were open, your response when someone comes in with an opportunity forgrowth is to basically slam the door in their face.
literally, but maybe literally.
(27:06):
So my office, I do have a door, but I also have a huge window.
Everybody walks by and they're constantly waving even if my door is closed.
I also try really, I like to be in the office.
I want to be available to the team at all times.
However, if I have a day that is nothing but calls and teams meeting, I don't go into theoffice because my door is closed.
(27:34):
hate that I do not want to close my door.
I am there to be a resource.
am you know I am there to you know to help I am there to walk around the you know Iconstantly am walking to see how I can support how can I help I'm not above doing anything
and I don't want to be again that leader who is in her office with the door shut in frontof a computer if I'm going to do that then I'll work from home that day.
(28:02):
So I
I work really hard to schedule as much as I can, like all of those teams meeting thosecalls on the same day.
smart.
I like that.
I like that.
So I want to talk a little bit about when we talk about the transition of moving from GCMIover to Vernex.
So talk about what you do now uh at Vernex and how maybe that maybe what are some lessonsyou maybe learned in that journey or the transition between the two.
(28:30):
Oh boy, okay.
This is water, folks.
Water.
Okay, just so you know.
m I'm doing the same job in the same chair, in the same office, in the same building.
(28:51):
um GCMI, the Global Center for Medical Innovation, was an affiliate of Georgia Tech.
We were at a point where 85 to 90 percent of our business, of our revenue, was industry.
Affiliates of the university system of Georgia exist to serve the institution.
(29:11):
We were no longer
just doing that.
So it was the right time.
It was also the right thing to do for Atlanta.
It was the right thing to do for the state of Georgia so that we could better serve thisamazing life science ecosystem.
system is unbelievable.
It's just crazy what we've done in 10, 15 years.
(29:32):
Unbelievable.
uh
So all VCs, if you're not already here and PE companies and all of that.
Seriously, the amount of I want to say one thing really quick.
So I, you know, I am a biomedical engineer.
And when I graduated, I thought one day I'm going to go to Silicon Valley.
Why?
Because that's where all that's where all biomedical engineers go.
(29:54):
That's where.
Yeah, exactly.
And we're told that all advanced technology comes from there.
And that's where the best of the best are.
And all of these types of things.
Right.
And yet.
I was a single mom with a five year old.
needed to make steady income and Medtronic was an amazing choice for me.
so that's what I did.
Fast forward.
My daughter graduated high school and so I got an opportunity to go run as COO abiopharmaceutical company in Silicon Valley.
(30:22):
And this is what I tell people.
It's kind of my experience was it's kind of like if you're a country music singer, youthink you need to go to Nashville to do music and then you get there.
And you suddenly realize, I can do country music anywhere.
Same thing.
I got out there and really what I realized is that yes, the ecosystem of Silicon Valleyhas old bones to it and all of this, but the grit, the determination, the passion, the
(30:50):
innovation, the ability to pivot on a dime that Atlanta has, I've yet to see another citythat has that, not to mention our cost of living is,
Like, third or quarter.
And you know, the one thing that you did mention that I think really differentiates us isour community.
Oh, the community, the spirit of community.
(31:12):
don't mean, I don't even mean Georgia Tech, Emory, CDC, Mercer, Georgia State, hope Ididn't, UGA, I hope I didn't leave anyone out.
Penis size.
It's that we come together.
It's what are you working on?
How can I help?
How can we collaborate?
You know, and that's what I get when I do bring people in.
(31:33):
They're like this.
This is an amazing community.
You pick up the phone.
Someone wants to help you.
They don't say.
for an agenda.
No.
Not for equity in your company or for all these other reasons.
It's just, it's a great place to be.
It really is.
So it was the right thing to do.
Okay.
We're right next to, know, we're still in the same building, which, know, I look atscience, I'm right there at science square portal innovations.
(31:58):
Those folks are incredible.
but it was different.
I was no longer a Georgia tech employee.
None of us were.
And, you know, we are now working for, you know, a PE backed company and I had, you know,I've been involved.
Listeners who don't know, it's Private F.
Thank you.
I had worked for venture capitalist backed companies before.
(32:20):
I my first company that I founded was a venture capitalist backed company.
um And this is very different.
um Transitioning from being a, you know, state employee in an engineering institution,nonprofit,
(32:42):
to a for-profit, I'd worked in for-profits, the majority of the employees had not.
And so it was a big transition and I felt it for the employees.
For me, it wasn't as big of a transition.
(33:03):
I thought I knew we were getting into, mean, it is different, It's been the best thingthat's ever happened to us, but...
You know, I felt it.
knew the employees were going to lose some benefits, but they were going to gain others.
And I knew that that transition was going to take longer.
uh It was the hardest thing I've ever done.
(33:27):
was legally, there were times we thought it was impossible.
But what I learned is that one life goes on.
Yes.
life, whether you're ready for it or not, so you may as well be ready because it's itisn't going to wait on you.
Change is a very powerful thing and it's what you make of it.
(33:53):
I can tell you the only change I like is change that I want to make.
uh
And then later we look back on something and we forget that we didn't want to make thatchange because now we like the change.
And you know, I and I laugh about the fact that I mean, I'm very self-aware.
(34:13):
I I know okay I'm a control freak if I didn't if I don't want to make the change I don'twant to make it but it was the best thing for all of us and it was the best thing for the
community um So, mean those are really the things that that I you know that I've learnedis things that you already know that you've been through before So I would say it was more
(34:35):
reminder
Anything that um that you know, you make the best of the situation you focus on thepositives that whether you like it or not life goes on so embrace the change and if you
embrace it, know some incredible things can come out of that.
m
Absolutely.
Okay, let's talk about building startups.
(34:57):
So you have been, and I hope this number is right, it could be even more than this, you'vebeen instrumental in bringing over 20 medical devices to market.
that's what I thought.
What trends excite you the most in the future of medical technology?
Well, you know, the answer that I suspect most people would give is AI.
Artificial intelligence.
(35:17):
um And of course, long term, can tell you, AI is going to revolutionize health care.
One hundred percent.
OK.
For me at the moment and really for the near term, I am super excited about at homediagnostics.
I was just reading, I'm lecturing a class this fall at Emory and they're new masters ofbio innovation and development for advanced therapeutics.
(35:46):
And so I'm reading my own textbook that we chose and this came up and we've had inBiolocity, we've had several teams looking at this and I've been saying the ability for
you to send someone something in the mail and it beats so user friendly, error proof.
(36:06):
that they can do in the comfort of their home, the privacy of their home, not have to taketime off of work, not have to travel in traffic, pay to park, put your kids somewhere, all
of these other things, and send it in in a calm environment versus going into a doctor'soffice and sitting and waiting and that person's coughing, why are they not, you all these
things, wow.
I mean, if you think about even just the finances of it, right?
(36:29):
I mean, the financial impact.
ah I mean, most of us have insurance.
It costs money.
And the efficiency.
So both from a financial perspective and from an efficiency perspective.
And so often, so often, what happens?
(36:49):
We wait until we are super sick.
Yes.
To go to the doctor.
Yep.
And that usually results in, you you're missing work.
You are, you're missing out on life.
You may have to be hospitalized.
The cost to treat the healthcare system is astronomical.
(37:11):
Where is if we could do at home diagnostics, even just think about how the at home flutest has changed things.
I have the flu.
You call the doctor, call me in the antiviral.
Wow.
You know, just even something simple like that, the impact that it's had.
I'm super excited about at-home diagnostics and really the advances that we are makingright here in Atlanta in that market.
(37:37):
when you think about healthcare utilization, when I'm working and mentoring teams,
A lot of the healthcare utilization factors are the factors that they forget are hugeadditives to the value add and the value chain of what they're actually building.
It's like, wait, you can reduce the cost of the amount of time waiting in a patient roomso the doctor can see another patient who's at a higher level.
(38:06):
You can catch something much sooner so that as you mentioned, your cascade effect is cutin half.
quarter, you know, all of these things.
I love that.
um
it also increases access, which is something I'm very passionate about.
You're in a rural community.
You're a mom.
You're a single mom.
You're hourly worker.
(38:27):
You can't afford to take off and sit in a doctor's office with your child.
Just the impacts are incredible.
I love this.
I love this.
Okay, so how do you approach the commercialization of healthcare innovations whileensuring they still say patient centered?
Well, you have to engage your stakeholders.
(38:47):
I mean, it's tough.
more.
Let's sum this take home.
think a lot of when I talk with teams and I say who did you do for your customerdiscovery?
They will say I talked to these three doctors at Emory and they're located at Emory andI'm like okay first off I need you to get out of the South.
uh
Back to you know diversify
(39:08):
West Coast, get to some community center health care and also get to the patient.
So not so here's the thing.
Here's the one thing I learned in pediatrics.
The stakeholder is not just the patient.
It's the parents.
It's the siblings.
It's the extended family.
It's the community.
(39:28):
You know, when you do a, you know, a heart transplant on a child, depending on thesocioeconomics, it's the community that rallies around that child.
Right.
So it's
understanding who your stakeholders are and also understanding that the way that we dothings here in Atlanta, Georgia is very different than the way we might do things in
(39:51):
Evergreen, Alabama.
Exactly, And I, you know, here's a little hint for you entrepreneurs out there.
If you really want to get a VC company to back you when you're doing your pitch and youshow I have customer discovery from these five different pockets of the healthcare
(40:12):
community, just talking just on the doctor's end, right?
And I also have pockets from, you know, let's just say pediatrics from from parents thattalk about the impact of
of daily injections to their kid and how this can transform.
When you're able to succinctly in one slide show all that information.
I as a VC, I'm like, okay, tell me more.
(40:34):
Now, if you could walk in and you say, okay, well, we have these four doctors listed andthey're all the same healthcare center and they all say this is a problem, then I as a VC,
I'm gonna say, well, I wonder if it's really a problem or just a problem at thatparticular location.
I mean, you know, the first company that I was a co-founder in, was based for at-homecare.
(40:59):
Okay, so it was a data collection tool for home care, but it was focused on both financialand clinical outcomes.
Now, this was in the late 80s, early 90s, folks, so long before people were talking aboutthat.
But my point in all of this was...
the majority of the data that we were collecting was not, I mean, we collected clinicaldata, but it was socioeconomic data.
(41:25):
And looking at how the, the socioeconomics, and it could be the difference, again, I mean,you could both have engineering degrees, but you live in Atlanta versus, you know,
Montgomery, Alabama, let's say.
Again, your life experiences are different.
Right.
oh
you have the potential for your clinical outcomes to be very different, not based uponyour diagnosis, but based upon your setting.
(41:53):
So again, it goes back to having a diverse population in your stakeholder engagement andyour customer discovery.
Or cannot preach.
And I am a big fan of getting in a room with big dry erase boards and throwing ideas onthe wall, throwing the names on the wall.
Don't do all of this stuff in your head.
(42:13):
You know, do this.
And then also when you're bringing in your team members that are diverse because you'vecreated a well-rounded team that's going to set you up for success, they are then going to
look at all of these names on the wall and say, wait, we're forgetting this or we'reforgetting this.
And, and sometimes I love to ask.
Customer and customer discovery what other types of customers do you think I should talkto that I haven't already talked to?
(42:37):
% and and I think I'm gonna go back to your whiteboard statement and your team becausewhat you just Demonstrated was the one thing that I believe is imperative and innovation
as well and that is creating a fear free environment You will never innovate if you have ayou could have a diverse group around the table, but if they're afraid to speak up
(43:02):
Yep.
love the idea of saying to the team, and I learned this in problem-based learning atGeorgia Tech when we had those rooms that were all, and I love saying to teams, I don't
care how crazy an idea is, we're throwing them all up on the wall.
Maybe I'll give awards for the craziest idea, because it uses a different part of yourbrain as well, and opens up and expands what you can actually, and I think what you can
(43:31):
actually accomplish and develop.
And also thinking about becoming innovative, when you don't do that, oftentimes teams endup navigating towards me too devices and things that look just like something else.
And then you find out really quickly, the patent search, well, there's too much prior art,we're not doing this.
(43:52):
and so you're not really solving any problem.
You may be tweaking something, but if you're throwing out these...
crazy wild ideas and you're getting it from a diverse group and everyone's speaking up andsaying it, that's when you're really going to be able to make a huge impact.
So let's talk about, you talked a little bit about private and public and I know in mycurrent role since I'm running by velocity and it's split between Georgia Tech and Emory,
(44:18):
which is a private university and a public university.
have opportunities to expand my conflict resolution and relationship building skills usingthat.
The thing that I really love is that a lot of value add can happen.
Oh, absolutely.
You talked a little bit about this, but can you talk about how private and publicinstitutions or collaborations can improve?
(44:43):
How can they grow in the next five to 10 years?
Well, we talked a little bit earlier about, mean, they're imperative.
I mean, it's imperative because you have a group with very different backgrounds andexperiences coming together to innovate.
(45:06):
It takes someone who is willing to spend the time and the effort to actually run thepartnership.
It is the most overlooked thing, Angela.
I don't understand it.
And I'm not going to name any names here, but I was asked by a hospital outside of thestate of Georgia if I could come in and talk to them.
(45:30):
They were trying to pull together a public-private hospital with a hospital and auniversity.
I, again, opened up.
You know, the book talked to them about what I'd done, made even some slides for them,gave them lessons learned, all the things that I did wrong that I learned.
(45:55):
And then I also said, and here are the things that I think are imperative in order for itto be successful.
Um, so they didn't do anything that I told them they should do, by the way, totallyignored me, came back a year later and I'm like,
You know, look, you got to figure this out on your own at this point.
(46:15):
But anyway, I say all that to say that having that individual like yourself who's sittingthere in the middle, who's willing to compromise, who's willing to understand both sides,
who's willing to say, been in the room, done this.
Is this the right thing for Georgia Tech?
(46:36):
Probably not.
Is this the right thing for Emory?
Doesn't look like it.
Is it the right thing for the partnership?
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
You know, and you're not going to have someone, and I'll tell you, it's part of the reasonthat even when I was a Georgia Tech employee that, you know, Georgia Tech's, that children
supported my salary so that I truly could sit in the middle.
(46:57):
Yes.
And I know at Biolocity, that's set up.
And that way you see both sides.
uh So I think that is the
You'll look at every they'll have all the other ingredients, but no one really focused onsitting in the middle with the partnerships best interest.
(47:20):
You know, going back to your comment about empathy, I think one of the things withBiolocity, you know, I lead Georgia Tech, I've spent my entire career focused in on
multiple boards at Georgia Tech.
And then when I was recruited for this position, and then my boss, Alyssa, sent me, she'slike, okay, here, you can now officially go and apply.
(47:41):
And it was an Emory link.
I was like,
What?
Because if you go to BioLocity on the website, it says biolocity at gottech.edu, right?
And so I will tell you, I am so grateful that it was, and my office is at Emory.
And I think that my point on this is that I would encourage people that are doingpartnerships with like a private and a public, go and spend time sitting in the shoes of
(48:09):
the other place.
I had an office at Georgia Tech as well.
uh yes, 100%.
I would go and sit in the lobby at um Scottish Right in Eccleston.
(48:31):
uh And for those of you who don't know, they merged years, years, years ago to makeChildren's Healthcare of Atlanta.
uh
Arthur playing.
1982, so it's been a while.
And just literally just sit there and watch the parents come in with their children, watchthe parents come in with the other siblings knowing they were going to visit a child to
(48:53):
keep me grounded.
I would leave going, I can't give up.
I've got to get this done.
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, I think the thing I love about now being on Emory's campus and being more new to theEmory people is they've so embraced me and they are involving me in all of these meetings
(49:14):
and I'm seeing all of these things.
And I think that we cannot under under emphasize the value add of actually sitting inseats that are different than the one you're used to sitting in.
And pausing when you're doing that and observing and shutting your mouth and lookingaround and meeting humans as humans and seeing and then taking a step back and saying,
(49:40):
wait, there are some really great things that we can utilize from this atmosphere and somereally great things that we can utilize from this atmosphere.
And then being a connector personality, like you said.
Absolutely.
It's really why I absolutely love my job is because every single day, if I open my mindevery single day, I have the opportunity to learn.
(50:05):
Absolutely.
Every single day.
am like, how can I?
It's just so interesting.
And to your point about, you know, sitting with the individuals and the empathy.
Even today in the job that I have now, know, there are veterinarians, there's vet techs,there's surgical techs, there's animal care, there's program leadership.
(50:28):
They all have a different perspective on how things should even be done in our ownfacility.
So bringing them together, but watching them work and understanding why that perspectiveis maybe 180 from some, from
(50:49):
another member of the team really helps you understand their point of view and why it'simportant to them.
And I think that too often it's back to people stay in their offices with the door shut,get out of your office.
Exactly, and they think of this position as the word of the title instead of a humanbeing.
(51:14):
who's doing the work, who's interacting with the environment on a day-to-day basis andwith whatever it is they're working with and that amount of knowledge that you have from
that, you can't put that into a title and a name in a room.
Like you really can't.
Let's talk about, so growing businesses.
So what would your, what's your advice for a young entrepreneur that has this greatmedical technology idea and they're looking to build a sustainable growth model within it.
(51:44):
from startup to long-term future.
What are some key things when you think about building something for sustainability as astartup that you would recommend?
Well, I think the most common things you hear, so I'm going to start with those and I'lltell you what I think.
know, financial, make sure it's a financial model that you've modeled it out, that it canbe successful.
(52:07):
What does your competitors look like?
You know, strong governance, ah you know, very focused on your vision.
Don't, you know, don't deviate from your vision.
wittle on this and this.
Don't miss it.
But there's no sustainability without your people, period.
Period.
I mean, you cannot do it without a team of individuals who are aligned on the purpose.
(52:33):
That is the number one thing.
I have seen, I've worked with more entrepreneurs in my career like you that think they cando it alone.
Or maybe they have
A couple people they hire and they're just going to tell them what to do.
People.
(52:54):
You know, I, I once had a board member of one of my previous companies.
was, I was talking in a board meeting and meant, and this company had already had quite abit of turnover and I was new in a couple months in.
And so one of the things I presented was ways to reduce turnover.
And this, this board member was like, I don't care about turnover in companies that areless than a C or EC.
(53:16):
And I thought, are you kidding me?
Like.
That is the exact opposite of what I think from in leadership because those core teammembers that are passionate, that are often not making market rates and they're in it
because they really want to make an impact on these things.
Those are the people that you want to keep and you want to select the right people, getrid of the brilliant jerks and select the people that are going to really grow together.
(53:41):
Well, and there's been a lot of research on this.
The people who you don't want to leave are going to be the ones who leave.
They have the opportunities.
The people who you want to leave stay.
you have to go.
They don't leave people.
And I, and I actually earlier in my career did a lot of, actually did some research onthis as well.
(54:07):
And so.
You know, choose wisely, use your gut.
Too often we ignore our instincts as leaders, as human beings, and we're so impressed byour resume that, you know, make sure they're a good fit for your culture.
And when you get someone who's amazing and comes in, empower them to actually do what youhired them to do.
(54:37):
Absolutely.
I...
Personally, I won't last a week at a job where I'm micromanage.
I will tell you, I have to really balance though, making sure that I give enough supportbecause I'm not a micromanager.
I mean, I'm the kind of leader who says, hey, look, I'm here to support you.
(55:01):
Let's talk this through, but you go do you, okay?
And sometimes you do need to step in and give more support.
I mean, you know that.
Yeah.
And so I've, you know, through the years, I mean, I've, I've, I've learned that as well isthat just because you are providing support doesn't mean you're a micromanager.
(55:26):
Right, right, right, right, I love that.
Okay, let's talk about in the work that we do, there are high risks in it.
so, mean, innovation in and of itself is a high risk, okay?
So how do you balance risk and innovation when leading organizations in high-stakeindustries?
Well, we've talked a little bit about this already is that you do have to create anenvironment that is fear free, but you have to couple that with if we're gonna fail, we
(55:55):
have to fail fast.
There is, I wanna say, I'm not sure if it's Simon Sinek who coined this, but someonecoined this a little, different perspective than fail fast.
And it was learn fast.
Love it.
And it is the mindset.
And actually, if you heard the story about when Thomas Edison's laboratory burned down.
(56:18):
And he looked at him and said, look, all of our mistakes are gone.
We can start all over.
Having the mindset that every time something doesn't work, it's really not a failure.
It's learning opportunity and you're growing off of it.
Well, mean, absolutely.
And I love that because I always say, you know, through failure are how we learn ourbiggest lessons.
(56:44):
100%.
And it's just about not repeating them.
And that is the learning piece because there's also, I think there's this
was this human drive to say, okay, I failed at that.
So let me try it again to see if I won't fail the next time.
And you're going to do the same thing and it's still going to fail.
(57:07):
So you have to you have to balance that as well, right?
Is saying, okay, that didn't work.
Let's pivot and see what will work.
think too many organizations forget to do a retrospective analysis of what they justaccomplished.
I mean look, we struggled with that in my industry.
Because you want to, you think, okay, this didn't work.
(57:31):
Okay, we're going to immediately pivot to this.
And you need to move fast.
Your runway is burning away.
And so the idea to slow down, to move faster, it's really hard cognitively to absorb.
And so to realize, okay, wait, if we just maybe, let's just, why don't we just take a dayor a couple of hours?
(57:54):
And let's, depending on what the thing is, and let's dig through the things and make surewe've captured all of our lessons learned versus just going full steam ahead into the
other.
Yeah, I mean, and so that as a leader, that's also a challenge because time is money.
Yes.
So you have to understand the value that by, you know, I still say stop, roll people.
(58:23):
Because everyone understands that, right?
They're like, there a fire somewhere?
It may as well be.
And, you know, but we do have to stop and think about
It's the reason we do the postmortems in hospital, right?
Yeah, do the same thing with With whether it's a study whether it's you know, you'rebuilding something as an engineer and and really Dissecting.
(58:48):
mean, that's the way I think about it is we have to dissect to really understand it It'swhat we do with anatomy, right?
I mean think about what you learned when you were in anatomy and physiology you were inthere and you're the way that you learn like how look at that
muscle.
my god, that bone is so cool.
You have to take it apart to put it back together.
Yes, yes.
(59:09):
And I think the other piece of it is teams often don't think about doing it when thingsare successful.
And it's critical to do things when it's successful and to sit and say, what did we doreally well?
Do we want to repeat?
And what are some little things maybe not so great we won't repeat in the future?
That's a great point.
And I think that sometimes we're just so excited and we have that, that, look at us, wedid this that you, again, you don't stop to say, Hey, look, let's, let's put, let's make
(59:43):
this policy.
Yes.
And in my, have such a, you know, medical device commercialization is the compliance andthe complexity is just unbelievable.
So it's like, should we make this an SOP?
Should we make this a standard operating procedure?
But uh let's at least talk about how we can make, weave this into our every.
(01:00:08):
Operationalize Absolutely.
yes.
Operationalize excellence into your everyday life.
Okay, so how do you personally stay ahead of industry trends and continuously innovate?
I know with being super busy, it's really hard to do is.
So I love to connect with people and so I learned by having lunch with you, right?
(01:00:29):
Having lunch with, you know, our community.
I love to do that or going out for, you know, a quick dinner and that, what is that?
That's meeting with thought leadership, with thought leaders, right?
Thought leadership is really how I um consume knowledge.
(01:00:51):
And it helps me retain it as well because I can recall experiences and most people can.
So I remember our lunch and I remember what we talked about.
um And so I try to be more intentional with that time m where we talk about uh what's onthe horizon, what's new, what are you doing?
(01:01:16):
What have you seen?
Those types of things.
I also love to go to conferences.
Um, you know, I get portal innovations, a great resource, some, some amazing talent.
Um, but so is Georgia life sciences, the Metro chamber.
There's so many in our community that I attend and I learned from.
(01:01:39):
I read, but the type of reading I do is probably, it's very different than earlier in mylife where I would consume a book a week.
Um, my eyes are old and tired.
You haven't converted to audible yet?
I'm like, they make that, you know, that that audio book?
(01:01:59):
I mean, that audio smell like a book and I can hear the pages turn until the
I am sure some engineer can do this.
Please.
But I dig into a lot of publications.
And that's the other way.
Yeah, I love just getting to know humans as humans.
so that whole...
(01:02:20):
The thing to me that's beautiful about it is that if I seek out a publication, I have thatconfirmation bias in just seeking out, depending on what I search by.
Right?
And it's going to show me articles that almost affirm whatever it is I think.
Okay?
That's how the Google search engines work.
however...
m
(01:02:43):
When I meet with a whole bunch of different people, if I want to have a diverse mindsetand I'm thoughtful about meeting with people from different backgrounds, from different
cultures, from different experience levels, then I slowly chip away at that confirmationbias because it always shocks me.
Someone will say something that is a complete pivot from what I even thought we were goingto talk about that takes us along a journey.
(01:03:10):
that is once again, one of those experiences that you remember.
Yeah.
It's
Publication is a transaction and I am really about building relationships for life.
Yep.
um And I love that we can just really intertwine that into learning as well.
(01:03:31):
Yep, yep, I love that.
Okay, so we could talk for, clearly we could talk for days.
And is there anything you really hope to recover that we haven't covered yet?
Think so.
I this has been an incredible conversation.
ah You know, I think I told you earlier that for the audience, just so you know, I'm goingto flip the script.
(01:03:53):
I'm going to interview uh Angela at some point.
Absolutely.
Can't wait.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so the biggest requirement of this podcast, because I believe in motivational quotesso much, they've like revolutionized my life.
So what is your favorite motivational quote?
Good things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle.
(01:04:16):
Gosh, I've never, I just got chills.
I've never heard that before.
it has been my quote since like the 80s.
Okay, here's what's so funny about it.
It was attributed to Abraham Lincoln.
Now today in today's world, if you Google it, it's like maybe Abraham Lincoln, sourceunknown.
(01:04:38):
Right.
And so was talking to my husband this morning, I knew you're gonna ask this.
And he knows what my quote is as well.
And he said,
Do really think that Abraham Lincoln said the word hustle?
m
I you know what?
I'm going to find out when it was added to the dictionary.
So this morning I looked.
(01:05:01):
1600s so you know what folks, maybe Abraham Lincoln did say.
oh
That is amazing.
You know what?
It was probably just as relevant in the 1600s as it is in 2025.
I love it.
love it.
Well, thank you for absolutely bringing the badass to this podcast.
I am very grateful.
This was so much fun.
Thank you for having me.
(01:05:21):
I'm very honored to be here, Angela.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining me for today's episode of the Badass Leaders Podcast.
To hear more interviews with industry experts and learn how to grow your career andleadership potential, be sure to like, subscribe and turn on notifications to ensure you
(01:05:42):
do not miss future episodes.
This podcast is a production of the AGN Group.
To learn more about the AGN Group, visit our website at theagngroup.com.
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brand strategy, keynote speaking, and more.
(01:06:04):
Follow us on all social media channels shown on the screen and displayed in the shownotes.
until next week, be brave and be badass.
There is no innovation without diversification.
mean, there's not.
Experience, male-female, I mean, if nothing else, your life experiences are what you drawfrom when you innovate, right?
So the fact that in today's world we're being told to not use words like diversity is, inmy opinion, I mean, almost terrifying because I am all about innovation.
(00:28):
Welcome back to the Badass Leaders podcast.
And today we have the pleasure of speaking with my friend and extraordinary leader inhealthcare innovation and business strategy, Sherry.
As the senior vice president of Varanek's preclinical services in North America, Sherryhas played a pivotal role in commercializing groundbreaking medical technologies with a
(00:53):
strong background in strategy, innovation, and public private partnership.
partnerships, Sherry is a visionary who knows how to turn ideas into sustainable success.
We're excited to dive into her journey, insights on leadership and the future of medicaltechnology.
Okay, if you're new to the podcast, welcome.
(01:16):
We are thrilled to have you here and enjoy growing with you.
So first off, thank you for taking time out of your busy day to learn and grow with us.
Secondly, before you
forget, please click that subscribe button to ensure you stay connected to the BadassLeaders community and you help us grow the community by subscribing.
(01:40):
If you leave a comment, I'll make sure to go in and personally respond to you.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback.
So are you ready?
Let's do it.
So join me, Angela Gil Nelms, on today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast, where I'mjoined
each week by industry experts for intimate and eye-opening discussions about thechallenges and joys facing the leaders of today.
(02:08):
Listen in and get ready to scale your company, grow your brand, and unlock your fullbadass potential.
Welcome to AGM Studios.
m
you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here and a little nervous to be interviewed by the great Angela.
(02:30):
Well, yeah, a little excited, excited instead of nervous because you're amazing.
we have, you know what I was thinking about is I actually can't remember how we gotintroduced.
So maybe you remember that because we've been friends for many years.
My daughter plays Pokemon with you.
(02:51):
She does.
I love her.
She's adorable.
I think it was at Florence.
I mean, because I was in Synergy at the time and I knew what you guys were doing.
It was really interested, you know, have a health IT background and we met then and thenwe just stayed in touch and we became great friends and
And life is amazing.
(03:11):
Yeah.
And I get to be very fortunate to interview you today.
So why don't we tell the guests who you are and why you're here today.
Sherry Ferruccia, I'm a Senior Vice President at Vernex, which is a company focused onmedical device commercialization.
We are a private equity backed company by Summit Capital.
I have spent my entire life in healthcare for more years than I care to tell the audience.
(03:38):
Well, so was like just 10 years maybe that's what we'll say so speaking of which goingback to I was so enthralled with that I was like, oh, where do I want to start?
There were so many things we could start with but why don't we first I like for at the AGMgroup were really passionate about Understanding humans as humans.
why don't we roll back the script just a little bit and tell us about who you are as ahuman being
(04:05):
Well, um I was actually raised in a small town in LA, lower Alabama.
I didn't know you were
Not from California, but I love to tell cab drivers in New York that.
uh And I was the youngest of three, first in my family to graduate from college, firstgeneration, went to Auburn University, got a degree in chemistry with a double minor in
(04:32):
physics.
that's the rest.
That's the early story, right?
There's a lot to tell after that.
And your hobbies are?
Um, you know, my hobbies, you know, is sitting on a bar stool with a glass of wine,watching your husband cook a hobby.
Absolutely, I think it can be.
(04:53):
I've perfected.
Other than that, I love to garden, I love to read.
ah And you know, at the point that I am in my life, I just love to spend time with myfamily.
Yeah, yeah, I can resonate with, you know, I mentioned earlier, my daughter is moving backfrom here.
And all I was thinking, all I'm thinking are all the things that we can do together,because she's always been my little sidekick.
(05:14):
So.
and you know, all my entire life I have always thought I have to be busy busy busy busybusy moving moving moving moving constantly right and um you know, I it's there's joy and
finally getting to the point in your life where you're like, you know what?
It's okay to just sit and do nothing for a little bit.
(05:36):
And that's where I am.
Yeah, I love it.
love it.
Okay, well, given the fact that both of us are spending our careers in advancing medicaltechnology and innovation, which we both are super passionate about, and we also are both
women, why don't we start with women in STEM and leadership?
So the official question is, as a woman of the year and the Technology Award recipient,congratulations.
(06:01):
Thank you.
What unique challenges have you faced as a female leader in STEM?
my gosh, that's an entire podcast.
um
I'm going to tell you a story.
when and by the way, I love Georgia Tech.
I think everyone knows that I've got, you know, two family alumni, one that soon will be.
(06:22):
So just know, even though this happened at Georgia Tech, I love Georgia Tech.
When I first started at Georgia Tech, we were they did kind of like a little reception forme.
And there were a lot of people there.
They asked me to introduce myself, introduce myself, very similar to what I just did here.
And someone came up to me afterwards, a male, and said, oh, a degree in chemistry.
(06:49):
I thought you had one of those fake degrees.
I was like, well, I don't understand what a MBA, apparently.
And I asked him, I said, and by the way, he became one of my best friends.
But I asked him, I said, did you think that because I'm a woman?
Do you think that women just go into business now?
(07:09):
No, that Georgia Tech,
graduates more female engineers than any other engineering institution.
And so I think there's this unconscious bias that women have worked really hard toovercome.
I think that probably everyone would tell you they've gone through periods of not beingtaken seriously.
(07:34):
There are plenty of examples of that.
uh
There's been plenty of examples of sitting in the room, giving a suggestion, here's anidea, being ignored, and then a male says it five minutes later.
my gosh, that's the best idea.
But you know, those are, there's ways to overcome that.
(07:55):
And instead of getting mad and angry and jaded, you just continue to move forward.
And I'm at a point now to where if that happens, I will say, excuse me, I said that fiveminutes ago.
Is there a reason why it wasn't a good idea five minutes ago, but it's a good idea now?
I love it.
Right.
And I think part of that, and you have a daughter, part of that is what message are wesending to the future generation of women if we don't do that?
(08:23):
And I made a decision, gosh, probably 10, 15 years ago that when I'm invited to speak,when I'm invited to
moderate when I'm invited to sit on a panel, the first thing I do is I go and look at theevent and I see how many male dominated panel, healthcare women, male dominated panels,
(08:49):
male dominated keynotes, and then I make the decision whether I'm going to support that ornot.
And I'm very clear with the person who invited me as to why I chose not to support.
I love this.
love this.
I'm thinking about, and everyone knows that I love Georgia Tech.
I bleed.
(09:10):
But I will tell you, I have a similar story in that I have been very blessed to havereceived two engineering awards from Georgia Tech.
you the first was a young alumni outstanding young alumni.
The second was a distinguished alumni.
(09:30):
when they have annual events to celebrate and on multiple years I would take my ex-husbandand other alumni would come up and shake his hand and ask what year he graduated,
completely ignoring me.
And I'm like, am I just like, am I not here?
Am I invisible?
(09:50):
It became a really big joke because I like you, I'm very.
confident and comfortable in my skin.
But it definitely has allowed me to become a better leader of both men and women.
Yes.
Because I can in the same instance when I'm in a room, typically I see where anotherfemale has said something and I see this happen and I get to be the one to speak up and
(10:14):
say, wait, she just said that.
Like, love it, you know, and to amplify her and support her and also help coach
them in because I think you really a very healthy leadership team brings in the best ofall of us.
100%.
(10:34):
I mean, I was hoping we'd talk a little bit about this, about diversity and innovation.
There is no innovation without diversification.
I mean, there's not.
Experience, male-female, I mean, if nothing else, your life experiences are what you drawfrom when you innovate, right?
(10:58):
So the fact that in today's world we're being told to not use words like diversity is, inmy opinion, I mean, almost terrifying because I am all about innovation.
I think about every team that I've ever had.
I'll you, remember when Steve Cross was the executive vice president of Georgia Tech?
(11:19):
Yes.
This was the one thing he preached was diversify, diversify, diversify.
m
If everyone in the room looks like you, Sherry, sounds like you, Sherry, has your lifeexperiences, Sherry, you will never find a solution.
it has stuck with me for years.
(11:41):
You know, I go back to my days, you I went back to school as a 29-year-old single mom witha special needs daughter because that's what people do.
For my capstone senior design project, mine was the very first ever interdisciplinarysenior design.
Yes.
And the reason is because I knew what I wanted to develop.
(12:01):
I wanted to develop a fully functioning closed loop hydrocephalus shunt that actually hadpressure sensors and was monitoring more than just by symptoms.
And- Life experience.
Yes, life experience.
And I went to Paul Bankesser and said, hey, I don't want-
four to five biomedical engineers who had taken the same classes that I've taken.
(12:23):
I want an electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer, computer science, and two BMEs.
And he said to me, well, if you can convince those departments to do it, you can do it.
so of course, I convinced those departments.
We had to do three presentations, three papers.
And the funny thing is that when we did our final presentation to the BME team,
(12:48):
several of the other teams were mad.
They were like, that's not fair.
She got to have that.
And he said, you know what she asked.
And when I was interviewing for jobs, graduating out of tech, I interviewed for threejobs.
I got all three job offers.
The minute I told them I had built a diverse team that had several cultures in it andengineers from these different disciplines, it was like, might drop.
(13:11):
Hire her right now because she knows how to collaborate.
I think the diversity part is
Learning how to collaborate with people who think differently and bringing the best out ofeach other.
Yes, and so it is the reason that public-private partnerships are so important.
Let's talk more.
Let's talk more.
That was on my list of questions.
Let's go for it.
(13:32):
It's because you bring that diversity and you bring different stakeholders in and youbring different life experiences and you also bring very different personalities.
Clinicians by nature, they're not engineers.
Now for my surgeon friends out there, I see you, okay?
(13:55):
I see you.
I know you're engineers at heart.
um But it is...
It really is what makes public private partnerships so strong.
you know, with the with with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta and Georgia Tech, we reallysaw that right.
oh And I tell the story and it's one about empathy.
(14:16):
And I believe that it that empathy is really the foundation of innovation.
You have to really.
OK, so imagine bringing a group of
clinicians and engineers together.
And what do clinicians do?
Clinicians have problems, right?
(14:36):
And they need, they don't need answers, they need solutions.
Right.
Right.
And so walking into a lab at Georgia Tech, a clinician slides a piece of paper across thetable, build me this.
Now, as an engineer, how might you react?
I don't build things, I solve problems.
Exactly.
(14:57):
Oh, well, I'm a failure at my job.
That's the first thing I thought was great.
you know, driving home that night, at the time I lived in Gwinnett County, so I actuallyhad to drive, I thought, you know, that was a terrible failure.
First time I tried to put these groups together.
And then that's when it dawned on me.
(15:19):
It's because the engineers have never spent time in an ICU.
Also,
We were in a conference room.
The clinicians had probably never been in a lab, a real lab, an engineering lab at GeorgiaTech.
Empathy.
So I put together a visit to ICU.
(15:40):
You can imagine a group of engineers walking into ICU at Children's Healthcare of Atlantaand they're in shock.
I mean, you know, they've never seen anything like that.
They immediately start to think about all the problems that they can solve.
The clinicians walking into a lab at Georgia Tech and going, wow, I guess you don't justtinker all day.
(16:02):
And that's the beauty.
That's really the beauty of diversifying your team.
You know, I love the comment about solving problems because I strongly believe that, I ofcourse have an engineering bias, I'm an engineer.
(16:24):
And when I mentor and I talk to them, I'm like, stop worrying about.
what your first job is going to be.
If you know how to solve problems and how to collaborate together to solve problems, thenyou can do anything.
You can pivot.
I've shown you can pivot.
I have too.
Right?
We both pivoted.
And I think that the collaboration between the clinician and the engineer is alsosometimes as ourselves, if we're a clinician, we may think we know the solution to the
(16:54):
problem and draw it out perfectly.
know the answer not the solution.
There you go, there you go.
And so challenging teams to do customer, you know, your five whys digging in, well why isthis a problem?
Why is that?
Why?
And getting to the root, then that's where innovation is.
100 % and you know, and it's also, and I guess this kind of goes back to, and we talked alittle bit earlier about the whole conflict resolution.
(17:24):
Yeah, I mean it.
It's always going to be an issue when you innovate and you diversify your team, right?
Because like you said, you have different cultures, you have different life experiences,you have different educations.
And.
different levels of confidence in your ability.
(17:45):
LPs.
And you know what?
You may have five engineers in the room and then all have a different idea of how to solvethe problem.
So you have, you know, it's like the meta-conflict, right?
Yeah.
It's not just the engineers and the clinicians conflicting.
It's, you know, your own team, your own individual group of engineers who are in conflict.
(18:08):
And I really struggled with that initially with this partnership.
oh But what I call it, everyone talks about what was your aha moment.
It wasn't an aha moment.
It was what I call, I've kind of coined the rah rah moment, that the first is that youhave to recognize that the cultures are very different, that we are different, that we
(18:33):
have different life experiences.
And that, you know, in this particular situation, that the...
um
The Children's Healthcare of Atlanta, know, culture is very different than, you know, aGeorgia Tech or really any engineering school culture.
You know, one is not zero.
You know, you don't want to make mistakes.
(18:54):
You do everything you can to prevent making a mistake in a clinical environment.
But engineers...
I want them to make mistakes because that's how they learn and grow!
You fail.
You fail fast.
You innovate.
You start over.
You have an answer.
Let's find the right solution.
I that's what we do.
And so you have to first just recognize and then get to a point of accepting that thecultures are different, but they're different for really good reasons.
(19:22):
It's not, I just want to be different than you.
It's because you don't want to cause harm to in a clinical setting.
um And then when you do that, you you really get to the point
to where you can, you you get to respect, you know, you get to, and then finally, when youclear that final hurdle, you get to the point of acceleration.
(19:49):
It takes time, and then you can accelerate innovation.
faster you fail on the front end, you want to find that big failure experiment, right?
Like what is the experiment that's going to be pass or fail at this point?
Get to there as quickly as you can.
And then when you get to a pass, well then light up the engine fuel and dig in to theexplosion of what you can do.
(20:10):
And it was amazing how quickly we were able to innovate because of that.
when having that common goal of what, why are we here?
It goes back to the whys.
Well, we're here to make the difference in the life of at least one child and stayingfocused on that.
(20:33):
love this.
Okay.
Conflict resolution.
The listeners know I love conflict resolution.
I am on my own personal mission to make the word conflict no longer a bad word or a...
It's not a bad word.
It's not.
But so many people, they hear the word conflict and their physical body reaction is likeknots in their stomach.
(20:56):
They start to sweat.
Their heart rate...
increases, they start to get a little bit of brain fog because they're not really surewhat path to go.
You can almost see them backing up in a room in your head when you see time completelyshut down.
And you and I have similar thoughts on conflict.
So and I know you have a story about it.
So tell me what your thoughts are on conflict resolution.
(21:17):
Well, I mean, I think it starts with common ground.
And I have so many stories on conflict.
You cannot run a public-private partnership without stories on conflict resolution.
But there was this one particular time, and it was extremely important that we get thisdone.
(21:37):
And I'm not going to divulge what it was, but um it had the potential to be lifesaving.
OK, so there was
staying focused on the gold, but there were not only human conflicts, there were legalconflicts.
And there were legal conflicts on both sides, and they were different.
(21:59):
Georgia Tech had their state agency.
The legal conflicts there are very different than if you are a children's healthcare, orany hospital, right?
And we were on a clock.
I mean, we had to, you know, I'm hearing from physicians, we've got to get this done,we've got to get this done.
And it was a tremendous amount of negotiation.
(22:27):
every time, here I go, hitting the mic again.
I see you, Eric.
And it was...
Every time we would deviate, I would bring us back to why we're doing this.
(22:48):
I mean, even to the point to where, you know, it was, let's talk.
I mean, not pointing the finger at anyone, right?
But as a group, can we live with ourselves if we don't do this?
If we don't get this done, can we live with ourselves?
And if the answer is no, then by God, let's get it done.
Right.
And ah
I love one thing really quick I want to highlight is you did an excellent job in thisstory in the real life example, right, of getting everyone on the same page on a joint
(23:20):
mission.
like pulled everyone back and said, whoa, wait, let's pause for a minute.
What is our joint mission?
Like, is that what success looks like this for all of us?
Right.
OK, now let's dig in again.
Yeah, I I think that's the key.
And I will tell you, I was very clear if you are not on board with this, then findsomebody who is.
(23:41):
Because it's the only way we're going to get it done.
And we did get it done.
Oh my gosh.
yeah, we got it done.
It almost killed me, but we got it done.
And I was driving home after a huge success with the impact on a child.
And Donna Hyland called me and she said, oh, I've talked to the, you know, I've talked tothe physicians.
(24:05):
They said, this would have never happened without you nine times, Eric.
And I said, well, I mean, I don't know if it would, whether that's exactly true, but I,but I did, you know, really work to keep everyone focused.
It was a team effort.
And, um, and she said something like, well, what's next for you, Sherry?
And I said, what's next for me is I'm going to go to DC and I'm going to, um,
(24:29):
I'm going to work on world peace and know kind of chuckle.
Right.
Right.
Well tell them to call me for a reference.
It was it felt like that many times.
DC could use someone working on World Peace.
Well, let's speak a little bit about another hot topic that I love, and it's thedifference between managers and leaders, because I want to also dig into your personal
(24:52):
leadership style.
And so let's kick off from your perspective.
What do you believe the difference between a manager and a true leader is?
Well, for me, a leader is someone who listens and who serves.
And a manager, in one word, is just someone who dictates.
(25:13):
it starts, again, for me personally, it starts with trust.
But you can't get there with trust without transparency.
And when I moved from being the CEO of the part of the Children's Healthcare of Atlanta ahpediatric technology center over to being the CEO of GCMI was a tough time and we were in
(25:38):
the middle of cove it.
I couldn't be.
actually didn't remember that was in the middle of COVID.
can remember how long you were at GCMI and tell the listeners what GCMI was.
Global Center for Medical Innovation.
And so I am meeting with the team.
Now, I did know many members of the team, Angela, but a lot of them I did not.
(26:00):
And I am meeting with them and introducing myself for the first time virtually on Teams.
It was a nightmare.
And uh the commitment that I made to them was that I would be transparent.
and that I would share successes, but I would also share failures with them.
And it took, I mean, it took months to gain trust, of course, a new leader coming in.
(26:25):
uh
you know when you've gained trust?
How does a leader know when they've gained trust?
knew when my door became a revolving oh
We've talked some in the episode with Drew Harden, he actually at Blue Compass, theiroffices have no doors at all.
(26:45):
And I love that because we've both worked with people who say, my door is an open door andit's never open.
And even if it were open, your response when someone comes in with an opportunity forgrowth is to basically slam the door in their face.
literally, but maybe literally.
(27:06):
So my office, I do have a door, but I also have a huge window.
Everybody walks by and they're constantly waving even if my door is closed.
I also try really, I like to be in the office.
I want to be available to the team at all times.
However, if I have a day that is nothing but calls and teams meeting, I don't go into theoffice because my door is closed.
(27:34):
hate that I do not want to close my door.
I am there to be a resource.
am you know I am there to you know to help I am there to walk around the you know Iconstantly am walking to see how I can support how can I help I'm not above doing anything
and I don't want to be again that leader who is in her office with the door shut in frontof a computer if I'm going to do that then I'll work from home that day.
(28:02):
So I
I work really hard to schedule as much as I can, like all of those teams meeting thosecalls on the same day.
smart.
I like that.
I like that.
So I want to talk a little bit about when we talk about the transition of moving from GCMIover to Vernex.
So talk about what you do now uh at Vernex and how maybe that maybe what are some lessonsyou maybe learned in that journey or the transition between the two.
(28:30):
Oh boy, okay.
This is water, folks.
Water.
Okay, just so you know.
m I'm doing the same job in the same chair, in the same office, in the same building.
(28:51):
um GCMI, the Global Center for Medical Innovation, was an affiliate of Georgia Tech.
We were at a point where 85 to 90 percent of our business, of our revenue, was industry.
Affiliates of the university system of Georgia exist to serve the institution.
(29:11):
We were no longer
just doing that.
So it was the right time.
It was also the right thing to do for Atlanta.
It was the right thing to do for the state of Georgia so that we could better serve thisamazing life science ecosystem.
system is unbelievable.
It's just crazy what we've done in 10, 15 years.
(29:32):
Unbelievable.
uh
So all VCs, if you're not already here and PE companies and all of that.
Seriously, the amount of I want to say one thing really quick.
So I, you know, I am a biomedical engineer.
And when I graduated, I thought one day I'm going to go to Silicon Valley.
Why?
Because that's where all that's where all biomedical engineers go.
(29:54):
That's where.
Yeah, exactly.
And we're told that all advanced technology comes from there.
And that's where the best of the best are.
And all of these types of things.
Right.
And yet.
I was a single mom with a five year old.
needed to make steady income and Medtronic was an amazing choice for me.
so that's what I did.
Fast forward.
My daughter graduated high school and so I got an opportunity to go run as COO abiopharmaceutical company in Silicon Valley.
(30:22):
And this is what I tell people.
It's kind of my experience was it's kind of like if you're a country music singer, youthink you need to go to Nashville to do music and then you get there.
And you suddenly realize, I can do country music anywhere.
Same thing.
I got out there and really what I realized is that yes, the ecosystem of Silicon Valleyhas old bones to it and all of this, but the grit, the determination, the passion, the
(30:50):
innovation, the ability to pivot on a dime that Atlanta has, I've yet to see another citythat has that, not to mention our cost of living is,
Like, third or quarter.
And you know, the one thing that you did mention that I think really differentiates us isour community.
Oh, the community, the spirit of community.
(31:12):
don't mean, I don't even mean Georgia Tech, Emory, CDC, Mercer, Georgia State, hope Ididn't, UGA, I hope I didn't leave anyone out.
Penis size.
It's that we come together.
It's what are you working on?
How can I help?
How can we collaborate?
You know, and that's what I get when I do bring people in.
(31:33):
They're like this.
This is an amazing community.
You pick up the phone.
Someone wants to help you.
They don't say.
for an agenda.
No.
Not for equity in your company or for all these other reasons.
It's just, it's a great place to be.
It really is.
So it was the right thing to do.
Okay.
We're right next to, know, we're still in the same building, which, know, I look atscience, I'm right there at science square portal innovations.
(31:58):
Those folks are incredible.
but it was different.
I was no longer a Georgia tech employee.
None of us were.
And, you know, we are now working for, you know, a PE backed company and I had, you know,I've been involved.
Listeners who don't know, it's Private F.
Thank you.
I had worked for venture capitalist backed companies before.
(32:20):
I my first company that I founded was a venture capitalist backed company.
um And this is very different.
um Transitioning from being a, you know, state employee in an engineering institution,nonprofit,
(32:42):
to a for-profit, I'd worked in for-profits, the majority of the employees had not.
And so it was a big transition and I felt it for the employees.
For me, it wasn't as big of a transition.
(33:03):
I thought I knew we were getting into, mean, it is different, It's been the best thingthat's ever happened to us, but...
You know, I felt it.
knew the employees were going to lose some benefits, but they were going to gain others.
And I knew that that transition was going to take longer.
uh It was the hardest thing I've ever done.
(33:27):
was legally, there were times we thought it was impossible.
But what I learned is that one life goes on.
Yes.
life, whether you're ready for it or not, so you may as well be ready because it's itisn't going to wait on you.
Change is a very powerful thing and it's what you make of it.
(33:53):
I can tell you the only change I like is change that I want to make.
uh
And then later we look back on something and we forget that we didn't want to make thatchange because now we like the change.
And you know, I and I laugh about the fact that I mean, I'm very self-aware.
(34:13):
I I know okay I'm a control freak if I didn't if I don't want to make the change I don'twant to make it but it was the best thing for all of us and it was the best thing for the
community um So, mean those are really the things that that I you know that I've learnedis things that you already know that you've been through before So I would say it was more
(34:35):
reminder
Anything that um that you know, you make the best of the situation you focus on thepositives that whether you like it or not life goes on so embrace the change and if you
embrace it, know some incredible things can come out of that.
m
Absolutely.
Okay, let's talk about building startups.
(34:57):
So you have been, and I hope this number is right, it could be even more than this, you'vebeen instrumental in bringing over 20 medical devices to market.
that's what I thought.
What trends excite you the most in the future of medical technology?
Well, you know, the answer that I suspect most people would give is AI.
Artificial intelligence.
(35:17):
um And of course, long term, can tell you, AI is going to revolutionize health care.
One hundred percent.
OK.
For me at the moment and really for the near term, I am super excited about at homediagnostics.
I was just reading, I'm lecturing a class this fall at Emory and they're new masters ofbio innovation and development for advanced therapeutics.
(35:46):
And so I'm reading my own textbook that we chose and this came up and we've had inBiolocity, we've had several teams looking at this and I've been saying the ability for
you to send someone something in the mail and it beats so user friendly, error proof.
(36:06):
that they can do in the comfort of their home, the privacy of their home, not have to taketime off of work, not have to travel in traffic, pay to park, put your kids somewhere, all
of these other things, and send it in in a calm environment versus going into a doctor'soffice and sitting and waiting and that person's coughing, why are they not, you all these
things, wow.
I mean, if you think about even just the finances of it, right?
(36:29):
I mean, the financial impact.
ah I mean, most of us have insurance.
It costs money.
And the efficiency.
So both from a financial perspective and from an efficiency perspective.
And so often, so often, what happens?
(36:49):
We wait until we are super sick.
Yes.
To go to the doctor.
Yep.
And that usually results in, you you're missing work.
You are, you're missing out on life.
You may have to be hospitalized.
The cost to treat the healthcare system is astronomical.
(37:11):
Where is if we could do at home diagnostics, even just think about how the at home flutest has changed things.
I have the flu.
You call the doctor, call me in the antiviral.
Wow.
You know, just even something simple like that, the impact that it's had.
I'm super excited about at-home diagnostics and really the advances that we are makingright here in Atlanta in that market.
(37:37):
when you think about healthcare utilization, when I'm working and mentoring teams,
A lot of the healthcare utilization factors are the factors that they forget are hugeadditives to the value add and the value chain of what they're actually building.
It's like, wait, you can reduce the cost of the amount of time waiting in a patient roomso the doctor can see another patient who's at a higher level.
(38:06):
You can catch something much sooner so that as you mentioned, your cascade effect is cutin half.
quarter, you know, all of these things.
I love that.
um
it also increases access, which is something I'm very passionate about.
You're in a rural community.
You're a mom.
You're a single mom.
You're hourly worker.
(38:27):
You can't afford to take off and sit in a doctor's office with your child.
Just the impacts are incredible.
I love this.
I love this.
Okay, so how do you approach the commercialization of healthcare innovations whileensuring they still say patient centered?
Well, you have to engage your stakeholders.
(38:47):
I mean, it's tough.
more.
Let's sum this take home.
think a lot of when I talk with teams and I say who did you do for your customerdiscovery?
They will say I talked to these three doctors at Emory and they're located at Emory andI'm like okay first off I need you to get out of the South.
uh
Back to you know diversify
(39:08):
West Coast, get to some community center health care and also get to the patient.
So not so here's the thing.
Here's the one thing I learned in pediatrics.
The stakeholder is not just the patient.
It's the parents.
It's the siblings.
It's the extended family.
It's the community.
(39:28):
You know, when you do a, you know, a heart transplant on a child, depending on thesocioeconomics, it's the community that rallies around that child.
Right.
So it's
understanding who your stakeholders are and also understanding that the way that we dothings here in Atlanta, Georgia is very different than the way we might do things in
(39:51):
Evergreen, Alabama.
Exactly, And I, you know, here's a little hint for you entrepreneurs out there.
If you really want to get a VC company to back you when you're doing your pitch and youshow I have customer discovery from these five different pockets of the healthcare
(40:12):
community, just talking just on the doctor's end, right?
And I also have pockets from, you know, let's just say pediatrics from from parents thattalk about the impact of
of daily injections to their kid and how this can transform.
When you're able to succinctly in one slide show all that information.
I as a VC, I'm like, okay, tell me more.
(40:34):
Now, if you could walk in and you say, okay, well, we have these four doctors listed andthey're all the same healthcare center and they all say this is a problem, then I as a VC,
I'm gonna say, well, I wonder if it's really a problem or just a problem at thatparticular location.
I mean, you know, the first company that I was a co-founder in, was based for at-homecare.
(40:59):
Okay, so it was a data collection tool for home care, but it was focused on both financialand clinical outcomes.
Now, this was in the late 80s, early 90s, folks, so long before people were talking aboutthat.
But my point in all of this was...
the majority of the data that we were collecting was not, I mean, we collected clinicaldata, but it was socioeconomic data.
(41:25):
And looking at how the, the socioeconomics, and it could be the difference, again, I mean,you could both have engineering degrees, but you live in Atlanta versus, you know,
Montgomery, Alabama, let's say.
Again, your life experiences are different.
Right.
oh
you have the potential for your clinical outcomes to be very different, not based uponyour diagnosis, but based upon your setting.
(41:53):
So again, it goes back to having a diverse population in your stakeholder engagement andyour customer discovery.
Or cannot preach.
And I am a big fan of getting in a room with big dry erase boards and throwing ideas onthe wall, throwing the names on the wall.
Don't do all of this stuff in your head.
(42:13):
You know, do this.
And then also when you're bringing in your team members that are diverse because you'vecreated a well-rounded team that's going to set you up for success, they are then going to
look at all of these names on the wall and say, wait, we're forgetting this or we'reforgetting this.
And, and sometimes I love to ask.
Customer and customer discovery what other types of customers do you think I should talkto that I haven't already talked to?
(42:37):
% and and I think I'm gonna go back to your whiteboard statement and your team becausewhat you just Demonstrated was the one thing that I believe is imperative and innovation
as well and that is creating a fear free environment You will never innovate if you have ayou could have a diverse group around the table, but if they're afraid to speak up
(43:02):
Yep.
love the idea of saying to the team, and I learned this in problem-based learning atGeorgia Tech when we had those rooms that were all, and I love saying to teams, I don't
care how crazy an idea is, we're throwing them all up on the wall.
Maybe I'll give awards for the craziest idea, because it uses a different part of yourbrain as well, and opens up and expands what you can actually, and I think what you can
(43:31):
actually accomplish and develop.
And also thinking about becoming innovative, when you don't do that, oftentimes teams endup navigating towards me too devices and things that look just like something else.
And then you find out really quickly, the patent search, well, there's too much prior art,we're not doing this.
(43:52):
and so you're not really solving any problem.
You may be tweaking something, but if you're throwing out these...
crazy wild ideas and you're getting it from a diverse group and everyone's speaking up andsaying it, that's when you're really going to be able to make a huge impact.
So let's talk about, you talked a little bit about private and public and I know in mycurrent role since I'm running by velocity and it's split between Georgia Tech and Emory,
(44:18):
which is a private university and a public university.
have opportunities to expand my conflict resolution and relationship building skills usingthat.
The thing that I really love is that a lot of value add can happen.
Oh, absolutely.
You talked a little bit about this, but can you talk about how private and publicinstitutions or collaborations can improve?
(44:43):
How can they grow in the next five to 10 years?
Well, we talked a little bit earlier about, mean, they're imperative.
I mean, it's imperative because you have a group with very different backgrounds andexperiences coming together to innovate.
(45:06):
It takes someone who is willing to spend the time and the effort to actually run thepartnership.
It is the most overlooked thing, Angela.
I don't understand it.
And I'm not going to name any names here, but I was asked by a hospital outside of thestate of Georgia if I could come in and talk to them.
(45:30):
They were trying to pull together a public-private hospital with a hospital and auniversity.
I, again, opened up.
You know, the book talked to them about what I'd done, made even some slides for them,gave them lessons learned, all the things that I did wrong that I learned.
(45:55):
And then I also said, and here are the things that I think are imperative in order for itto be successful.
Um, so they didn't do anything that I told them they should do, by the way, totallyignored me, came back a year later and I'm like,
You know, look, you got to figure this out on your own at this point.
(46:15):
But anyway, I say all that to say that having that individual like yourself who's sittingthere in the middle, who's willing to compromise, who's willing to understand both sides,
who's willing to say, been in the room, done this.
Is this the right thing for Georgia Tech?
(46:36):
Probably not.
Is this the right thing for Emory?
Doesn't look like it.
Is it the right thing for the partnership?
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
You know, and you're not going to have someone, and I'll tell you, it's part of the reasonthat even when I was a Georgia Tech employee that, you know, Georgia Tech's, that children
supported my salary so that I truly could sit in the middle.
(46:57):
Yes.
And I know at Biolocity, that's set up.
And that way you see both sides.
uh So I think that is the
You'll look at every they'll have all the other ingredients, but no one really focused onsitting in the middle with the partnerships best interest.
(47:20):
You know, going back to your comment about empathy, I think one of the things withBiolocity, you know, I lead Georgia Tech, I've spent my entire career focused in on
multiple boards at Georgia Tech.
And then when I was recruited for this position, and then my boss, Alyssa, sent me, she'slike, okay, here, you can now officially go and apply.
(47:41):
And it was an Emory link.
I was like,
What?
Because if you go to BioLocity on the website, it says biolocity at gottech.edu, right?
And so I will tell you, I am so grateful that it was, and my office is at Emory.
And I think that my point on this is that I would encourage people that are doingpartnerships with like a private and a public, go and spend time sitting in the shoes of
(48:09):
the other place.
I had an office at Georgia Tech as well.
uh yes, 100%.
I would go and sit in the lobby at um Scottish Right in Eccleston.
(48:31):
uh And for those of you who don't know, they merged years, years, years ago to makeChildren's Healthcare of Atlanta.
uh
Arthur playing.
1982, so it's been a while.
And just literally just sit there and watch the parents come in with their children, watchthe parents come in with the other siblings knowing they were going to visit a child to
(48:53):
keep me grounded.
I would leave going, I can't give up.
I've got to get this done.
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, I think the thing I love about now being on Emory's campus and being more new to theEmory people is they've so embraced me and they are involving me in all of these meetings
(49:14):
and I'm seeing all of these things.
And I think that we cannot under under emphasize the value add of actually sitting inseats that are different than the one you're used to sitting in.
And pausing when you're doing that and observing and shutting your mouth and lookingaround and meeting humans as humans and seeing and then taking a step back and saying,
(49:40):
wait, there are some really great things that we can utilize from this atmosphere and somereally great things that we can utilize from this atmosphere.
And then being a connector personality, like you said.
Absolutely.
It's really why I absolutely love my job is because every single day, if I open my mindevery single day, I have the opportunity to learn.
(50:05):
Absolutely.
Every single day.
am like, how can I?
It's just so interesting.
And to your point about, you know, sitting with the individuals and the empathy.
Even today in the job that I have now, know, there are veterinarians, there's vet techs,there's surgical techs, there's animal care, there's program leadership.
(50:28):
They all have a different perspective on how things should even be done in our ownfacility.
So bringing them together, but watching them work and understanding why that perspectiveis maybe 180 from some, from
(50:49):
another member of the team really helps you understand their point of view and why it'simportant to them.
And I think that too often it's back to people stay in their offices with the door shut,get out of your office.
Exactly, and they think of this position as the word of the title instead of a humanbeing.
(51:14):
who's doing the work, who's interacting with the environment on a day-to-day basis andwith whatever it is they're working with and that amount of knowledge that you have from
that, you can't put that into a title and a name in a room.
Like you really can't.
Let's talk about, so growing businesses.
So what would your, what's your advice for a young entrepreneur that has this greatmedical technology idea and they're looking to build a sustainable growth model within it.
(51:44):
from startup to long-term future.
What are some key things when you think about building something for sustainability as astartup that you would recommend?
Well, I think the most common things you hear, so I'm going to start with those and I'lltell you what I think.
know, financial, make sure it's a financial model that you've modeled it out, that it canbe successful.
(52:07):
What does your competitors look like?
You know, strong governance, ah you know, very focused on your vision.
Don't, you know, don't deviate from your vision.
wittle on this and this.
Don't miss it.
But there's no sustainability without your people, period.
Period.
I mean, you cannot do it without a team of individuals who are aligned on the purpose.
(52:33):
That is the number one thing.
I have seen, I've worked with more entrepreneurs in my career like you that think they cando it alone.
Or maybe they have
A couple people they hire and they're just going to tell them what to do.
People.
(52:54):
You know, I, I once had a board member of one of my previous companies.
was, I was talking in a board meeting and meant, and this company had already had quite abit of turnover and I was new in a couple months in.
And so one of the things I presented was ways to reduce turnover.
And this, this board member was like, I don't care about turnover in companies that areless than a C or EC.
(53:16):
And I thought, are you kidding me?
Like.
That is the exact opposite of what I think from in leadership because those core teammembers that are passionate, that are often not making market rates and they're in it
because they really want to make an impact on these things.
Those are the people that you want to keep and you want to select the right people, getrid of the brilliant jerks and select the people that are going to really grow together.
(53:41):
Well, and there's been a lot of research on this.
The people who you don't want to leave are going to be the ones who leave.
They have the opportunities.
The people who you want to leave stay.
you have to go.
They don't leave people.
And I, and I actually earlier in my career did a lot of, actually did some research onthis as well.
(54:07):
And so.
You know, choose wisely, use your gut.
Too often we ignore our instincts as leaders, as human beings, and we're so impressed byour resume that, you know, make sure they're a good fit for your culture.
And when you get someone who's amazing and comes in, empower them to actually do what youhired them to do.
(54:37):
Absolutely.
I...
Personally, I won't last a week at a job where I'm micromanage.
I will tell you, I have to really balance though, making sure that I give enough supportbecause I'm not a micromanager.
I mean, I'm the kind of leader who says, hey, look, I'm here to support you.
(55:01):
Let's talk this through, but you go do you, okay?
And sometimes you do need to step in and give more support.
I mean, you know that.
Yeah.
And so I've, you know, through the years, I mean, I've, I've, I've learned that as well isthat just because you are providing support doesn't mean you're a micromanager.
(55:26):
Right, right, right, right, I love that.
Okay, let's talk about in the work that we do, there are high risks in it.
so, mean, innovation in and of itself is a high risk, okay?
So how do you balance risk and innovation when leading organizations in high-stakeindustries?
Well, we've talked a little bit about this already is that you do have to create anenvironment that is fear free, but you have to couple that with if we're gonna fail, we
(55:55):
have to fail fast.
There is, I wanna say, I'm not sure if it's Simon Sinek who coined this, but someonecoined this a little, different perspective than fail fast.
And it was learn fast.
Love it.
And it is the mindset.
And actually, if you heard the story about when Thomas Edison's laboratory burned down.
(56:18):
And he looked at him and said, look, all of our mistakes are gone.
We can start all over.
Having the mindset that every time something doesn't work, it's really not a failure.
It's learning opportunity and you're growing off of it.
Well, mean, absolutely.
And I love that because I always say, you know, through failure are how we learn ourbiggest lessons.
(56:44):
100%.
And it's just about not repeating them.
And that is the learning piece because there's also, I think there's this
was this human drive to say, okay, I failed at that.
So let me try it again to see if I won't fail the next time.
And you're going to do the same thing and it's still going to fail.
(57:07):
So you have to you have to balance that as well, right?
Is saying, okay, that didn't work.
Let's pivot and see what will work.
think too many organizations forget to do a retrospective analysis of what they justaccomplished.
I mean look, we struggled with that in my industry.
Because you want to, you think, okay, this didn't work.
(57:31):
Okay, we're going to immediately pivot to this.
And you need to move fast.
Your runway is burning away.
And so the idea to slow down, to move faster, it's really hard cognitively to absorb.
And so to realize, okay, wait, if we just maybe, let's just, why don't we just take a dayor a couple of hours?
(57:54):
And let's, depending on what the thing is, and let's dig through the things and make surewe've captured all of our lessons learned versus just going full steam ahead into the
other.
Yeah, I mean, and so that as a leader, that's also a challenge because time is money.
Yes.
So you have to understand the value that by, you know, I still say stop, roll people.
(58:23):
Because everyone understands that, right?
They're like, there a fire somewhere?
It may as well be.
And, you know, but we do have to stop and think about
It's the reason we do the postmortems in hospital, right?
Yeah, do the same thing with With whether it's a study whether it's you know, you'rebuilding something as an engineer and and really Dissecting.
(58:48):
mean, that's the way I think about it is we have to dissect to really understand it It'swhat we do with anatomy, right?
I mean think about what you learned when you were in anatomy and physiology you were inthere and you're the way that you learn like how look at that
muscle.
my god, that bone is so cool.
You have to take it apart to put it back together.
Yes, yes.
(59:09):
And I think the other piece of it is teams often don't think about doing it when thingsare successful.
And it's critical to do things when it's successful and to sit and say, what did we doreally well?
Do we want to repeat?
And what are some little things maybe not so great we won't repeat in the future?
That's a great point.
And I think that sometimes we're just so excited and we have that, that, look at us, wedid this that you, again, you don't stop to say, Hey, look, let's, let's put, let's make
(59:43):
this policy.
Yes.
And in my, have such a, you know, medical device commercialization is the compliance andthe complexity is just unbelievable.
So it's like, should we make this an SOP?
Should we make this a standard operating procedure?
But uh let's at least talk about how we can make, weave this into our every.
(01:00:08):
Operationalize Absolutely.
yes.
Operationalize excellence into your everyday life.
Okay, so how do you personally stay ahead of industry trends and continuously innovate?
I know with being super busy, it's really hard to do is.
So I love to connect with people and so I learned by having lunch with you, right?
(01:00:29):
Having lunch with, you know, our community.
I love to do that or going out for, you know, a quick dinner and that, what is that?
That's meeting with thought leadership, with thought leaders, right?
Thought leadership is really how I um consume knowledge.
(01:00:51):
And it helps me retain it as well because I can recall experiences and most people can.
So I remember our lunch and I remember what we talked about.
um And so I try to be more intentional with that time m where we talk about uh what's onthe horizon, what's new, what are you doing?
(01:01:16):
What have you seen?
Those types of things.
I also love to go to conferences.
Um, you know, I get portal innovations, a great resource, some, some amazing talent.
Um, but so is Georgia life sciences, the Metro chamber.
There's so many in our community that I attend and I learned from.
(01:01:39):
I read, but the type of reading I do is probably, it's very different than earlier in mylife where I would consume a book a week.
Um, my eyes are old and tired.
You haven't converted to audible yet?
I'm like, they make that, you know, that that audio book?
(01:01:59):
I mean, that audio smell like a book and I can hear the pages turn until the
I am sure some engineer can do this.
Please.
But I dig into a lot of publications.
And that's the other way.
Yeah, I love just getting to know humans as humans.
so that whole...
(01:02:20):
The thing to me that's beautiful about it is that if I seek out a publication, I have thatconfirmation bias in just seeking out, depending on what I search by.
Right?
And it's going to show me articles that almost affirm whatever it is I think.
Okay?
That's how the Google search engines work.
however...
m
(01:02:43):
When I meet with a whole bunch of different people, if I want to have a diverse mindsetand I'm thoughtful about meeting with people from different backgrounds, from different
cultures, from different experience levels, then I slowly chip away at that confirmationbias because it always shocks me.
Someone will say something that is a complete pivot from what I even thought we were goingto talk about that takes us along a journey.
(01:03:10):
that is once again, one of those experiences that you remember.
Yeah.
It's
Publication is a transaction and I am really about building relationships for life.
Yep.
um And I love that we can just really intertwine that into learning as well.
(01:03:31):
Yep, yep, I love that.
Okay, so we could talk for, clearly we could talk for days.
And is there anything you really hope to recover that we haven't covered yet?
Think so.
I this has been an incredible conversation.
ah You know, I think I told you earlier that for the audience, just so you know, I'm goingto flip the script.
(01:03:53):
I'm going to interview uh Angela at some point.
Absolutely.
Can't wait.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so the biggest requirement of this podcast, because I believe in motivational quotesso much, they've like revolutionized my life.
So what is your favorite motivational quote?
Good things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle.
(01:04:16):
Gosh, I've never, I just got chills.
I've never heard that before.
it has been my quote since like the 80s.
Okay, here's what's so funny about it.
It was attributed to Abraham Lincoln.
Now today in today's world, if you Google it, it's like maybe Abraham Lincoln, sourceunknown.
(01:04:38):
Right.
And so was talking to my husband this morning, I knew you're gonna ask this.
And he knows what my quote is as well.
And he said,
Do really think that Abraham Lincoln said the word hustle?
m
I you know what?
I'm going to find out when it was added to the dictionary.
So this morning I looked.
(01:05:01):
1600s so you know what folks, maybe Abraham Lincoln did say.
oh
That is amazing.
You know what?
It was probably just as relevant in the 1600s as it is in 2025.
I love it.
love it.
Well, thank you for absolutely bringing the badass to this podcast.
I am very grateful.
This was so much fun.
Thank you for having me.
(01:05:21):
I'm very honored to be here, Angela.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining me for today's episode of the Badass Leaders Podcast.
To hear more interviews with industry experts and learn how to grow your career andleadership potential, be sure to like, subscribe and turn on notifications to ensure you
(01:05:42):
do not miss future episodes.
This podcast is a production of the AGN Group.
To learn more about the AGN Group, visit our website at theagngroup.com.
There you can discover more about our services, which include hosting workshops,management consulting,
brand strategy, keynote speaking, and more.
(01:06:04):
Follow us on all social media channels shown on the screen and displayed in the shownotes.
until next week, be brave and be badass.
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