April 2, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode, Sherry Grote shares her journey from traditional marketing to becoming a licensed pastor and industry leader. She discusses balancing creativity with data-driven strategies, leading fragmented teams, and the power of communication in workplace culture.
Sherry also introduces Harmony Hero, an initiative empowering marketers and HR professionals to find their voice and drive change. The conversation explores emotional intelligence, team dynamics, leadership, key differences between B2B and B2C marketing, team-building strategies, and the impact of cultural diversity on collaboration.
Learn more about Sherry Grote at:
-
Facebook: The Harmony Hero
-
Instagram: @theharmonyhero
-
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherrygrote/
-
Website: www.theharmonyhero.com
-
The DiSC test: https://discvalueprofiles.com/blog/what-are-the-disc-personality-types-a-deeper-look-at-12-styles/
About Angela:
Angela Gill Nelms is a trailblazer in the creation of exceptional companies and teams. She serves as the Director of Biolocity and is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of both The AGN Group and the Recovery Advocate Network. Previously, she held the position of Chief Operations Officer at Aetos Imaging, RenovoRx, and Florence Healthcare. With a Bachelor's degree in Biomedical Engineering from Georgia Tech, Angela has a proven track record of successfully navigating the FDA, leading diverse teams, prioritizing the needs of customers and patients, and building exceptional companies.
Angela shares her lessons learned around the country in keynote speeches, coaching, and team-building workshops. Learn more about Angela at www.AngelaGillNelms.com.
About The AGN Group:
At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. We offer keynote and panel speaking, leadership and team-building workshops, fractional and management consulting, brand and storytelling services. Email us at hello@TheAGNGroup.com to connect. Learn more at www.TheAGNGroup.com.
Social Media Channels:
-
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/73Dg8OQ7SqtGtSiCWQUfLB?si=c17c0f1abe29446f
-
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/badass-leaders-podcast-brave-hearts-brave-conversations/id1788987881
-
Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod
-
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2
Want to be a Podcast Guest?
If you are
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When I come in and talk to a leader, the first thing I want to do is be able to help themwield the weapon that is their best weapon in their toolbox.
And that's their voice.
So that's finding the confidence to say, hey, I have something to say, and it's important,and it's valuable, and this is why you need to hear it.
(00:21):
Welcome back to the Badass Leaders podcast.
Today, we are thrilled to welcome the amazing Sherry Grody.
Sherry is an accomplished international marketing executive, a truly badass leader, and apersonal and admired friend of mine.
Sherry is the CEO and founder of the Harmony Hero Initiative.
(00:45):
She uses her joyful and empowering voice and the Harmony Hero framework to equip leaderswith practical
tools to inspire transformation, foster connection, and achieve extraordinary results.
She has 25 years of experience driving measurable outcomes by aligning teams, strategies,and messaging to generate meaningful engagement and revenue growth for B2B SaaS
(01:09):
organizations.
Okay, if you're new to the podcast, or if you've been listening for a while and youhaven't subscribed yet,
Please take a moment and click that subscribe button.
helps ensure we're successful so that we can continue to bring you amazing leaders eachweek and that you don't miss an opportunity to learn and grow with us.
(01:30):
And if you leave a comment on the episode, I will be sure to respond personally to it.
So are you ready?
Let's do it.
Join me, Angela Gill Nelms, on today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast, where I'mjoined each week by industry experts
experts for intimate and eye-opening discussions about the challenges and joys facing theleaders of today.
(01:54):
Listen in and get ready to scale your company, grow your brand, and unlock your fullbadass potential.
Okay, well, Sherry, welcome to the Badass Leaders podcast.
Yeah, we're super stoked.
(02:15):
Okay, so, you know, I have this problem.
First off, the listeners heard the intro.
They know that we are good friends as well.
And so this is extra special for me.
So I'm grateful that you made your trek to AGM Studios in downtown Atlanta on a Mondaythrough traffic.
So that's pretty special.
It is, and I saw parts of Atlanta I have never been to before, so it was fantastic.
That's amazing.
(02:36):
It's a journey.
Okay, we're gonna continue the journey.
Why don't you kick us off by telling us about yourself and why you're here today.
So my name is Sheri Grote as you guys already know but I am an experienced revenue drivenmarketer and I was raised in marketing communications and as I evolved in my career I
(02:57):
became what I have considered a revenue marketer and what I've learned is that there's areal importance for marketers to be able to not only use words to use colors be able to
convey messages, but they also need to be able to use the data that comes from dataanalytics and being a data-driven marketer and using all of those tools to tell the story
(03:23):
of the success.
But the problem is, is when you swing the pendulum from not being able to tell it fromdata to using only data to tell the story.
I've learned that you actually can cause yourself still additional problems over herebecause this pendulum has swung too far and you need to find balance and harmony in
between the two.
(03:44):
So you have to be able to not only use your words, use your colors, use your peopleskills, use your political skills to communicate your message, but you need to have the
data that backs it up.
But the data alone will not save you when it comes to dealing with.
board members, with executives, with your teammates, with your peers and colleagues.
(04:05):
And so that's why I've created the Harmony Hero initiative to be able to help marketersand HR people who have a seat at the table actually use their voice to be heard at the
table.
Okay, so this is like marketing from every realm of the company basically is what you'restarting at.
Okay, let's dig in.
(04:25):
First off, let's roll back a little bit and let's find out who Sherry is as a human being.
So tell us a little bit of you outside of marketing.
Outside of marketing, I'm a mom to two of the most amazing toe-headed children on theplanet.
They are 19 and 21, both in college.
One's a business major and one is going to be a commercial pilot.
(04:48):
So that's fantastic and fun.
And we're learning all kinds of things about that.
I'm also a full-time caregiver to my husband who is a walking, talking miracle.
He had a brainstem stroke at the age of 43.
And so that's brought its own challenges with career, with care.
giving with learning to, one of my favorite phrases is, dead EMTs don't do anybody anygood.
(05:12):
So part of being a Harmony Hero is learning to take care of yourself so that you cancontinue to care for those that you take care of on a regular basis, whether that's your
kids, your family, your teammates, your people at work, whatever.
And I am a licensed pastor.
It's not something that I talk about a lot with everybody, but it is a huge part of mylife.
(05:33):
Faith is a huge part of my journey and a lot of the roller coasters that I've dealt within life, I don't know how I would have done them without my faith.
So that's a huge part of my life too.
Okay, I love this because I do recall you at one point telling me that you're a licensedpassenger.
Okay, but I want to dig in a little bit.
How did Sherry get into marketing and what made you decide to become a licensed passenger?
(05:57):
I love it.
Like the laughing already.
Well, I laugh because marketing was like a natural for me.
It was just as a matter of fact, as a kid, my mom used to look at my book reports and theywere beautiful and they were colored and they had stickers on them and they had all the
things, right?
And she'd look at it and she'd say, does the inside have as much quality as the outside?
(06:21):
And she wasn't wrong.
mean, like I had put the time and effort into it, but it couldn't just be.
the look and the feel, right?
It wasn't just about making it pretty and make it sound good.
It also had to actually be good.
And I just naturally fell into marketing.
What's interesting about it is I went to Kennesaw State University when it was becoming auniversity.
(06:41):
So they were going through their accreditation process.
Classes were really, really tough.
And the gentleman who taught our PR class, I really wanted to go into PR and be ajournalist and
used communication as part of my lifestyle.
And he was a professor in a senior level class and I was a freshman taking this class.
(07:04):
And he said on the first day of class, for those of you who are taking communicationsbecause you didn't want to take economics and finance and accounting and da da da da,
you're stupid.
Because it's going to take you five years of working in a nothing job to get theexperience that you need to get to where you actually really want to go.
I literally left the class, went down to the registrar's office, changed fromcommunications to marketing, and went, well, that's what I should have been all along.
(07:32):
So that's how I ended up in marketing.
I that.
love that.
So never really thought you're going to go into marketing, but I mean, how grateful areyou that that professor said it like it was, right?
mean, how many spring graduating seniors were hearing that for the first time and freakedout because they didn't know.
And he was a big wig here in Atlanta.
He actually wrote the book that we were using for that class.
(07:54):
So he was somebody to be listening to in that field.
So he wasn't one of those, you know how you run into some people and they say things atcertain stages of their career like that and they're just really ornery and grumpy and
you're just like, are you always that miserable in your life?
He wasn't one of those people.
No, really meant it.
He really meant it.
Right, right.
right, right.
Well, that's awesome.
Okay.
(08:14):
So then how did you get into becoming a pastor on the spiritual side?
There's a whole other story altogether.
We started going to a church down in Atlanta called City of Refuge.
And we just started growing relationships with different people.
We ended up becoming part of a secondary branch.
(08:37):
The church is no longer around since COVID, but it was Refuge West.
And the pastors there really invested in our lives.
And we had gone through, when my kids were little, we went through our certificate ofministry, my husband and I both.
And we would bring the kids to church on Sunday.
We would set them up in the nursery.
(08:58):
It would just be the two of them with snacks and sleeping bags and movies and things likethat.
And we would go take our theology classes and all the things that we needed to learn.
And then we would go home in the afternoon and have our regular family time.
Well, I didn't know that was gonna turn into actually being a licensed pastor.
But I love kids.
(09:19):
I love middle schoolers.
And I know most people...
Yeah, most people do not love middle schoolers.
I love middle schoolers a lot.
Because when you're not their parent, they listen to you.
And you're still kind of cool if you're not stodgy and whatever.
And they're so eager to learn.
(09:39):
And they are hungry for a reason to live this crazy, chaotic life that exists.
And so I was working with the youth there and as it progressed and I got my certificate ofministry finished, our pastor said, I really think you're supposed to get licensed.
And what that has done for me is create a path that I never thought was going to exist.
(10:06):
We participate in a retreat that is called a three-day retreat.
It's called Trasteas.
And I sat in that retreat 20...
almost 22 years ago, and I was listening to the people give talks, and they're justeveryday normal people that give talks on this thing.
And I said, God would never ask me to speak because I don't have anything to say.
(10:30):
I really didn't believe that I had a voice that was worth listening to.
And that carried through most of my career and everything.
wasn't just my personal life, it was in my career as well.
And...
The funny thing is now when I work those kinds of weekends with young adults, it's the 15to 21 year old group, all I do is talk because I'm a spiritual director.
(10:56):
So don't tell God what you're not going to be capable of because he's just going to laughand he's going to say, ha ha, watch this.
And now he wants me to do a TED talk and he wants me to write this book and he wants me totake this initiative for the Harmony Hero.
into places that I never thought I would go to, all because of what started with somethingabout not having a voice.
(11:21):
I love that, I love that.
Because so much is about having a voice and so many individuals, I mean, you are notalone.
The type of person who says, okay, why would I even do this?
I have nothing to say.
Or really, I think a lot of people think no one wants to hear anything I have to say.
opening up those doors is super special.
(11:43):
Okay, let's dig into marketing.
So before you started the Harmony Hero, you have worked in large.
company organizations and you've done a lot of, I took a note because one of the thingsthat you mentioned was, is it at Mac Stadium that you used to be at?
when you were there, since we're gonna talk about leadership and marketing as well, whenyou were there, you solidified a disjointed team, finding the right place for each person,
(12:11):
hiring to fill the gaps and supporting them to reach their full potential.
So a couple of thoughts, questions we had is, can you describe to the listeners
what your perspective on a disjointed team is.
Absolutely.
So in that particular circumstance, there had been a lot of change, a lot of leadershipchanges.
(12:31):
There still are to this day, actually.
That team, they had no vision.
They had no idea what their roles were individually.
They crossed over each other all the time and they weren't doing things that they loveddoing.
And so therefore they were just doing stuff.
(12:51):
That's the way I, that's the nice way of saying it.
They were just doing stuff.
It wasn't necessarily effective.
It wasn't what they were passionate about.
It wasn't what they wanted to do with their life.
Nobody was mentoring them or growing them.
And I really believed when I entered the organization that they were quitting.
And they were.
Like that was the path.
Everybody was.
(13:12):
think is at a lot of organizations, right?
To be able to identify the individuals who are not engaged, who aren't really passionateabout whatever their goals are, that is an early indicator of someone who is not going to
be there for very long.
That's it.
And so when I came in, and I haven't done this at just one company, I've actually done itat five.
(13:34):
And they are what I call startups or startups with legs, right?
So maybe they've gotten their series A, B or C funding, or maybe they're bootstrapped andI've helped them raise their round of capital.
And I've walked into these very disorganized marketing organizations and created what Icall marketing engines, demand gen engines for these organizations.
(13:57):
And the first step every single time is to not go in and assess the people to find out whoyou need to get rid of.
It's to find out who is underutilized.
Because I do feel, especially in marketing, that marketers feel unheard, unseen, andundervalued.
(14:18):
Always.
And I find very few who are incredibly confident, especially if they're females.
That is so fascinating because I love hearing that from an insider's perspective becausefrom an outsider working with marketing teams, I would have never guessed that.
mean, from the outside, the marketing teams I have worked with have always appeared to bevery confident.
(14:46):
Most companies have the highest budget of anyone in the organization.
So everyone else is kind of like, why is marketing getting all the money?
You know, all of that kind of stuff.
So I've never had that perspective.
They are under the gun all the time.
Marketing is the first place that gets cut.
They may have the biggest budgets, but if you can't prove that you are actually generatingresults and making an impact, you are the first to be cut, always.
(15:13):
And I've had that experience as well, right?
I've had my teams cut, my budgets cut, all kinds of things, just because either thecompany wasn't doing well, the sales team was disorganized,
or whatever.
wasn't always because marketing wasn't doing well.
It was because either A, we weren't using our voice in the right way.
(15:35):
We weren't using our influence to actually show that we're making an impact.
And I've been at fault for that.
That's some of the lessons that I've learned in my lifetime.
And I want to help other people not make those same decisions and same choices.
I want them to learn from somebody else's mistakes.
Okay, let's talk about impact.
So impact, I'm very passionate about impact because I have the perspective you only liveone life.
(16:01):
Make every single moment that you can count.
And I think that oftentimes team members, especially team members that might be on moreentry or junior level feel as if they don't have the ability to make an impact.
And I strongly disagree with that.
I believe everyone can make an impact.
every level of an organization and every stage.
(16:21):
So can you tell us what is your, when you're looking at and you're working with a teammember, let's just say you have a disjointed team and you identify a few team members in
there that don't appear to be engaged.
You think they're on the fence to leave and they're having these motivation, confidencechallenges, and yet you know they can make an impact.
(16:42):
What, tell us some of the steps that you would use to collaborate with them to help thembe successful.
I think it always starts with conversations and communications.
And it's not about necessarily just scheduled time.
popping in and saying hi, even if it's on Zoom, right?
Like we live in a digital world of remote and all of that.
(17:05):
It's having time where you're learning about them.
What are the challenges in their life?
What's happening in their world?
Understanding is there something going on at home that's impacting their work and they'renot being effective?
If so, let's work through that challenge.
Let's find a better way to have a work-life balance, especially if it's somebody that youknow can do the job really, really well.
(17:28):
And they just need some, either some extra guidance, some extra motivation, or they justneed a little bit of space.
Maybe that's what they need.
And I've had employees like that, right?
A father died, or someone has cancer, and it's impacting their work.
And I still need results out of that person, but...
I have found in my experience by giving them space and giving them grace to have a littlebit of extra space for themselves.
(17:55):
They come back and they work harder.
They still give out even when they should be taking time for themselves.
They're like, no, she really cares about me because nobody wants to do anything for youuntil they know that you really care about them.
Right.
And so that's where I start.
They need to know that I care and I'm on their side.
(18:16):
When I start a new role with an organization, I always give a basket of gifts.
It's funny, I didn't think I was gonna talk about this today.
I love that.
But I always give a gift basket and everybody gets the same thing in them and they're alldifferent times based on whatever I know about the company and what's going on.
But there's several things that are always in the basket.
(18:38):
There's always Play-Doh, because I love Play-Doh and crayons and markers.
Those are all my favorite from being marketing communications, right?
And so there's always that.
The Plato's there because you get squished, pushed, changed, stretched, whatever, but youcan still go back in the container and it's okay.
You're still whole.
And so I always tell them that, right?
And, and then there's always little other things, whatever they might be.
(19:01):
But the other thing that I always put in there is an umbrella.
And I promised them as the leader coming in, especially if they've been through a lot ofchange and they've either had a lot of marketing leader changes or it's just been bad.
and that's why it's disjointed and it's dysfunctional.
I come in and I say, I am got you covered.
(19:21):
Like I will take the heat for whatever's coming on down the pike, right?
And I'm gonna deflect it off of you.
What I need you to do is do the job really well that you were hired to do.
And I promise to protect you.
Exactly.
And I think that's part of being a good leader.
That's part of being a badass leader, frankly.
(19:43):
Yeah, totally.
And if you don't do that, you don't protect your team and they don't have psychologicalsafety in their space, they're not going to give you 120%.
And in today's world where people are cutting people out of companies left and right, andpeople are having to wear more hats, and they need to have a better focus and better
(20:05):
organization and better skills and wear these and be a Jill of all trades.
You know, they need to have psychological safety in order to do that and do it well.
Yeah, I love that.
So any funny stories about giving that gift basket to someone and them being like, did Icome back to like elementary school or why am I getting played out?
(20:26):
Every single person, I mean, I've mailed them to some people.
in the remote world.
I have had every single one of them send me a note.
Every single one of them.
It's the coolest gift ever.
That was so cool.
And it wasn't, and so that's why I kept doing it, right?
Because the first time and it worked in every, and I even had a guy on the team that Ithought, he's going to think this is cheesy and corny or whatever.
(20:51):
no, they loved it.
And they walked away.
feeling like they had a leader that they might be able to still stick it out with, eventhough the organization was dysfunctional prior to that.
So I
love the I mean, the Play-Doh really stands out to me as something so unique.
(21:12):
And I love the idea of having that like on your desk and just seeing at all times is aconstant reminder.
I'm a big believer in some tokens and stuff like that as constant reminders of things.
So that's fascinating.
Now, where did you come up with this idea?
Did you have a leader do something similar?
No, you just came out amazing, because you're in marketing.
This makes sense.
(21:32):
Well, you take my faith and you take my personality and you take my skill sets and putthem all together and God just gives good ideas.
He gives the best ideas, frankly.
Yeah, so that was one of the questions that I had next was that you've driven a desire tomake a meaningful impact and foster growth wherever you go.
(21:54):
think what is, when you look back at your life, what do you think set or created thatmindset in you to have this as kind of the legacy that you want?
So I think there's probably a couple of major stories that come into part of your originstory of who you are and who you become and whatever.
(22:19):
I remember having a conversation with my dad.
My parents were divorced when I was young and I was 13 and I just wanted to spend timewith him.
I literally just wanted to go out and have pizza with my dad, right?
And he had a new family.
He was trying to engage with the family, trying to bring us all together and said, no, weneed to do things as a family.
(22:47):
And I didn't understand that at 13.
And I got really upset.
And I was crying.
And I just got really mad.
And he finally said the thing that broke the straw for me and changed a lot in mylifetime.
He said, we'll discuss this when you're rational.
And I said, OK, well then I guess we won't discuss it at all.
And I slammed the phone down as hard as I could.
(23:08):
Like, I didn't even know I could slam something that hard.
No offense, but are 13 year olds really typically rational?
Not really, not really.
I don't think so.
And I was pretty upset and I never got upset.
See, I was a peacekeeper.
That's who I was.
And peacekeeping is not the same as peacemaking.
(23:30):
And that is where I birthed the concept and idea of powerful peacemaking.
It went all back to that moment because for the first time in my life, the very first timeI ever
said, I don't really care what anybody else thinks or what anybody else wants.
I'm not happy with this result and I don't care if I'm making you happy or not.
(23:56):
And not that that was necessarily the right thing.
And again, I now as an adult have a lot of compassion for my dad and the circumstance.
He wasn't trying to do anything wrong.
He was doing the best he could.
And yet I learned that
You don't have to make everybody happy to actually make peace.
(24:20):
And that's where the Harmony Hero got birthed.
Yeah, okay, so let's talk about the Harmony Hero Initiative framework.
So it's the Harmony Hero framework.
And so it started in your early years when you suddenly finally, or finally, actually Ithink 13 is really young to realize that you don't have to agree with everyone, you don't
(24:41):
have to make everyone happy.
I think the world would be a better place if most of us figured that out, 13 quitefrankly.
I know I did not figure that out at 13.
I think I was in my 30s before I figured that out.
So.
So when you think back at that and you look at, because I think when you've talked alittle bit about the Harmony Hero framework, it is a culmination of your 25 years of
(25:01):
experience building phenomenal teams, collaborating, having failures in certain areas, andidentifying some of these things.
So can you walk us through?
First off, what the framework is and kind of why you chose some of those pieces to be inthe framework.
Yeah.
(25:22):
Absolutely.
So born out of a desire right to build a group of powerful peacemakers because that's partof the problem right is we have conflict in this world and it is chaotic and I don't want
to be the only one I did figure out that that is the 5 % that makes me different
So I know I am a Harmony hero.
(25:44):
And it's part of what has made me successful, even in the failures, right?
And finding that balance and learning how to be emotionally intelligent.
How to...
foster alignment in an organization, how to be resilient when things don't go your way,right?
And to motivate your team members, A, in the way they want to be motivated, and B, in away that celebrates what they did right, not what they did wrong.
(26:12):
And unfortunately, I think there's a lot of leaders who are not badass leaders thatmotivate you or try to motivate you out of, you did this wrong, don't do this again, and.
whatever, and I don't want to be that kind of leader.
So it's the right kind of motivation.
And you have to be open-minded.
And in your open-mindedness, it's not just about somebody else's ideas.
(26:34):
It's also finding new ways and creative ways and thinking outside the box of what doestraditional, especially in B2B, what does traditional B2B say marketing should be doing?
Well, maybe we shouldn't, right?
Maybe we should try something new and take something that B2C is doing and...
apply it in a way that makes sense, right?
Now we're going to break it down the acronyms because since I am from have worked in asoftware world and V2B and V2C makes a lot of sense to me.
(27:02):
I know that we have a diverse group audience and they may not know and we'll talk a littlebit about your SAS experience.
Maybe can you go ahead and define what V2B, V2C and SAS.
Absolutely, and you're absolutely right.
There's so many acronyms in this world that it can get crazy.
So B2B is business to business and business to consumer is B2C.
(27:23):
There's a third one now that's direct to consumer.
So that's D2C.
So there's different types of marketing and different theologies and different pathways toget to each one.
you define to the listener though the difference between a business and a consumer?
So it's interesting because I don't believe there is a difference.
(27:45):
The world believes there's a difference.
But people buy your solutions.
They are consumers.
Whether you're buying business to business, or business to consumer, or direct toconsumer, it's still consumers.
They're still human beings.
And you still have to communicate with them, reach them on an emotional level, and make animpact that they're willing to purchase your solution.
(28:06):
Because people buy from people they like and people they trust.
Right, right, right.
And so in the, what the rest of the world thinks of as business to business is a businessbuying a piece of software because they're going to use it in their business practice.
And it's maybe not, and it's not the end product of what they have, but it's a piece ofsomething they're using to get to their end product.
(28:31):
Correct.
Versus a business to consumer, in theory, the consumer is buying the end product thatthey're gonna use.
the store and you buy something off the shelf at Target.
Where it's like you go to the grocery store and you buy an apple because you're makingapple pie.
Yes.
Or you're Publix and you're buying apples from an organic farmer down the street.
(28:52):
know, B2B versus B2C.
Exactly.
That was kind of fun.
I like that analogy.
You did really good, Angela.
Score, score, score.
And then SAS, Software as a Service.
So have you spent your entire career in software?
no, you've been everywhere?
have been in tech.
So I grew up in wireless.
I was in Internet of Things as a startup that actually we made it all the way to two daysbefore our IPO and the market crashed.
(29:21):
So I've had a lot of on the job training of what doesn't work and how much of it is timingas much as it is anything else.
But I spent a lot of time in IoT, wireless and antennas for all things.
I sold
the cellular antennas that go up on the cell towers.
So I've done it all, but I've really found my sweet spot in B2B sat.
(29:45):
Yeah, okay, I love it.
let's talk about the frame going back to the framework again.
So if you're so you do consulting as well for companies using the framework, what does itlook like when you're coming in and you're evaluating a team and then addressing pieces of
framework?
What does that look like?
So I really want to start with the leaders is who I really want to start with and thenworkshop with their teams later.
(30:12):
Because if you don't start with the leader, you don't make any change.
Right, you have to get that by any...
buy-in and that leader I believe where I can help the most right now is marketing becauseI've lived that life.
I've sat in that seat.
I know what it feels like when you're marginalized, unseen and unheard.
And I've seen a lot of HR leaders in the same boat.
(30:37):
So they have a seat at the table.
but they're pushed aside by the other C-suite and, they're just the hiring person or,they're just the compliance person or, they're just, and they don't really, they also feel
very marginalized and unseen, frankly.
And I've talked to a lot of HR leaders who feel that way.
(30:58):
And so when I come in and talk to a leader, the first thing I want to do is be able tohelp them wield the weapon that is their
best weapon in their toolbox, and that's their voice.
So that's finding the confidence to say, hey, I have something to say and it's importantand it's valuable and this is why you need to hear it.
(31:22):
But in order to use your voice in an appropriate way, you need to use that harmonyframework.
So you need to have an EQ that is very high, that's listening to what somebody else needs.
that's right.
yes.
Emotional intelligence.
So
That's all about listening to other people, finding out what it is that they need and howyou can actually help them because once you help them, they're more than likely going to
(31:48):
help you and you build trust when you have better emotional intelligence.
So that's why that's always the first part of the framework.
Alignment goes falls right into that, right?
Once you start building that rapport and you're aligned, if that leader is aligned to theother peers in their group,
then that peer group is going to function at a higher level, right?
(32:12):
So we haven't even talked about the team itself, the marketing team, but just in yourpeers, how do you get that resolved?
There's gonna be things that go right and things that go wrong.
So you have to know how to bounce back and that's where resiliency comes in.
And then again, motivation, open-mindedness, navigational, and celebrating progress overperfection through the youthfulness of that.
(32:37):
Now, when I talk to leaders, they need to figure out what their superpower is, right?
Because they may not have all of those already in 100 % capacity and being utilized.
So which ones are working really well for you?
So assessing that, where do you fall on that scale?
Which one of those areas do you need the most help with?
(32:58):
And then I would work with them to get them to a level that's a higher level than wherethey are now.
And then I would love to work with their team, right?
To workshop.
with their team on either solving a problem that they have, building team building skills,because the more those teams trust each other, believe in each other, have psychological
safety, the more effective they're gonna be for the organization.
(33:21):
But even more than that, they're gonna make an impact on the world, because they're goingto make an impact on the greater good because they're better human beings because of it.
So tell us what are some of your favorite go-to team building exercises that allow teammembers to open up and really trust each other?
So one of my favorite ones that I used, I've used it in most of the workshops that I'vedone with my own teams and it's the spaghetti marshmallow challenge.
(33:51):
my gosh, I do not know.
You don't know this one?
Oh, this is awesome.
So you give them all the same number of pieces of thin spaghetti.
Cooked.
Uncooked.
Okay.
And then you give them a marshmallow and the team that builds the tallest structure thatstands.
wins.
And they get really creative.
(34:12):
Now I've used this in youth groups.
I've used it in my marketing teams.
I've used it at SPS.
Putting the marshmallow on the top of the, so they're holding.
So you give them that and nothing else and they've got to figure out how to make that.
like, it's super, it's like, I'm trying to picture this.
(34:33):
It's like super thin toothpicks, right?
Yes, yes.
Or like popsicle sticks.
It's not easy.
And so everyone has one and they, like they could do maybe a teepee and put, do they getone marshmallow?
They get one marshmallow and I don't remember you can vary the number of I have to Googlenoodles for this.
It's great.
You definitely need to Google it.
(34:54):
And it's a wonderful thing to try with your team, especially since you have a new team anda new scenario.
So I would highly recommend it.
It's fun.
They they love it, especially if you have people in your group who are
a little more technical or maybe they're very process oriented.
They love that kind of stuff because it's building, creating.
Marketers in general love to build and create.
(35:16):
But if you get the technical people involved to that, that works really well.
Okay, one of the things that I love about team building exercises like this, when you put,especially if you put a diverse team together, but anyway, when you put a team together is
I love to observe because you can learn so much about each team member when you'reobserving.
(35:36):
So tell me some of the things that you're looking for when you're watching themcollaborate as a team.
I'm looking to see if there's one person in the group that's doing all the talking or isthere somebody who is your utility player?
Somebody that knows there's a goal, they know what the end result is supposed to be,right?
(36:00):
You have the goal to make the tallest thing and they bring out the skills in the otherpeople while they're doing it.
They don't just, that's your MVP.
And I talk about that on my website too.
And the reason why I say that is because that's part of how I ended up where I am.
(36:21):
I had been at a team building exercise with.
with one of the companies that I worked at.
We went down to Naples, Florida and we had a coach there and she was teaching us aboutemotional intelligence, but we had to solve a real challenge in these teams.
And it was the first time I'd ever done a personality profile test.
(36:42):
So, and that particular one was the DISC.
So it's, yeah.
Disc?
Yes, the disc profile.
And I'm a high I, I'm off the charts.
I don't remember what I is intuitive or what was what's I in that?
Okay, we'll put in the show notes later.
keep meaning to look up this because it's come up on another and there are so manydifferent
(37:02):
could be influential.
It could be that.
I'm not sure.
But it makes sense for a marketing person, right, in general to be that.
But I'm a high eye and I got stuck in a group with all Ds.
And we couldn't get anything done.
And I'm like, we have this task.
We have this list of things we have to do and we have to solve this and then we have tomake a presentation and we have to do this tonight in like two hours.
(37:28):
So let's get going.
Come on.
And I worked with them.
to get them to go through the process.
And I didn't know I was doing anything special.
I didn't realize that what I was doing was drawing the best out of others.
It was just something that I had innately.
And the person who was leading the team building exercise, she told the CEO, she's like,that's your MVP.
(37:55):
You tell her what you want done, she's gonna find a way, no matter who's in the room withher, to get the job done.
and she's going to do it effectively and she's going to do it well.
And we had to present that night and then we were judged and we were competing and I'mincredibly competitive.
I don't like to lose at all.
And my team of D's who would normally want to be in charge of everything were like, you'representing.
(38:19):
No, you wrapped this whole thing up with a pretty bow.
So no, you're doing the presenting.
I was like, I don't know if I want to do that.
they're like, no, go, go, go, go.
You're going to be fine.
And we won the competition.
So I didn't know.
that she had told him that.
And I had actually been struggling with him because he was a very hard to please leader.
And here I was, right, a former peacekeeper trying to be peacemaker.
(38:42):
And I couldn't find a way to make him happy at all.
And all of a sudden things changed.
And the next year we went back for the team building and she told me what she had said tohim.
And she said, yeah, I told him you were the MVP.
and that you were the utility player that would get the job done.
(39:04):
And I said, wow, I had no idea, but it made a difference and he become a different leaderwith me in bringing out more leadership in me at that point.
So it not only helped me personally, but it helped him because then he became a betterleader and he ended up being a pretty badass leader too.
It just was harder for me to get to that point with him.
(39:25):
It took a little more time.
But that's what I look for.
I'm looking for people who can be like that because that's the one I want to spend themost time with.
That's the one I want to help coach to get to the next level because they already havethat skills.
The others, I'm going to work with them on the skills.
But that one is your MVP.
That's who you're going to go after.
(39:46):
You know I was thinking about when you were telling the story?
thought this is why for leaders, it's so important to bring in outside consultants andcoaches and things like that.
Even the most amazing leaders to bring out someone who has a completely non-biased view,who can observe from a whole new framework.
(40:08):
and then identify areas that could have gone years without realizing that connection.
And you grew a lot as a result of it.
He grew a lot, or your leader, he or she grew a lot out of it.
And I'm quite confident the teams that you both collaborated with also grew because ofthat.
And if you had not brought in someone who could be a third party observer to watch that,also, if you hadn't...
(40:34):
done, I love the thing I love about team building exercises when they're done like this isthat sometimes people think, oh, they're just a waste of time.
They're not bringing in money.
They're not bringing in ROI.
They're playtime and we don't have time for recess.
It's not all, right?
It can bring so much value into, not only are people more productive when they feel thatpsychological safety and they've done team building, you can also identify
(41:04):
your superstars and the team members that, hey, are the drop of vinegar that's boiling themilk or the ones that just need, you can also, I've identified people who I'm like, okay,
that person didn't talk the whole time, but I know they're amazing.
Right, right.
do I get them out?
How do I get their voice to be heard?
Yes, absolutely.
(41:24):
Yeah, I love that.
so what what made you decide then to do because you've done a little bit of your a pivotof your career to transition and focus on this.
What was that driver?
think it was finally the last straw of I don't want to have to answer to someone else allthe time about what is good and what is not good or what is effective and what is not
(41:53):
effective.
And honestly, between my professional, my personal, my caregiving, all of those thingscoming together,
I really wanted to step into a purpose that was going to be impactful for other people andnot just have a job.
I've had jobs, you know, or things that I thought I was investing my heart and soul intoand part of my career and I've had amazing experiences, but at the same time, you can be
(42:25):
turned around and dropped at the drop of a hat.
And I don't want to do that.
I would rather make an impact that's lasting in the world.
And I can do that by helping other people learn the skills that I've learned.
Love it.
So let's talk a little bit because I know you've worked with teams internationally.
And when I think about, I'm going to call them soft skills, although I don't necessarilylove that phrase of it.
(42:51):
But anyway, when I think of some of the skills that you're talking about,
The way that they manifest and they're presented to different cultures can be quitedifferent.
Yes.
So tell me a little bit more about your experience, maybe some challenges, maybe somegotcha moments.
I don't know if you want to have a vulnerable moment there.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
One of the things that I have learned, I've loved working internationally.
(43:13):
It's been part of what I have really enjoyed in my career.
I've been to some amazing places just because of it, right?
But there are differences.
We act differently in different places because of how we've grown up.
And I think that some of it's been fun and some of it's been challenging.
So let me tell you about the fun ones.
(43:33):
Working with salespeople in Ireland.
Very fun.
I I love the accents.
Oh, yes.
mean, the accents are amazing.
You could listen all day long, right?
But I had a gentleman that I'm still friends with today.
And every time I talked to him, there was a whole new phrase that I'd never heard ordidn't understand.
(43:59):
And he's the one that taught me, and I don't even know if we can say this on the podcast,but I didn't know that pissed didn't mean angry in their language.
I didn't know that either.
It meant being drunk.
And he would say, got so pissed last night.
And I was like, well, why were you so angry?
No, it took like three weeks before I figured out what he was talking about because he hadto explain it to me.
(44:23):
things like that.
We both speak English, right?
But words mean things, and they mean different things to different people.
And I think that's one of the things that can be both fun and challenging.
if you're working in an international world.
So some of my gotchas, I'd say a word that I think everybody understands.
And I realized that half the room did not track with me at all.
(44:45):
So yeah, you can have some experiences that are not the best.
That is Sister Colson now.
go to Ireland, I'll try and remember that piece.
That is pretty funny.
Okay, so tell me about you really, in a lot of your focus, you excel at...
(45:10):
identifying the superpowers of different individuals at different levels.
So, know, many, I have observed that many leaders really struggle at either putting teammembers in the best role for them or transitioning them into roles that are the best fit
for them.
So tell me a little bit about how you identify if they're in the right role or not.
(45:31):
And then how do you approach a situation where that individual would be much moresuccessful in another role and they now need to transition?
Yes.
So that's obviously when we go back to what we were talking about earlier, that'sobviously the first thing I do when I go into a team.
And again, not assessing for whether we should keep them or not, but assessing for arethey in the right roles?
Because if you have the right people on the bus, that's great.
(45:53):
But if they're not in the right seats, that doesn't help you a whole lot, right?
So both are important.
And when I go in and I am looking at a team and an organization and people,
what their skill sets are.
You also have to listen to what they want because they will tell you if you will listen.
(46:17):
And sometimes it requires asking it multiple times in different ways before you get allthe information you need.
examples?
What are some ways you might ask me?
So I guess so one of the examples was I had a team member who was who didn't have adefined role period they no job description.
(46:38):
No nothing.
I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
So what do you do in the team?
start telling me all the things they do and like, okay, that's great.
What what that does?
None of that fits into a role.
Like if you're thinking about a job description, like none of that fits in there.
That's just
a mishmash of stuff.
(46:59):
And so the more we talked, I was like, well, what do you really want to do?
And she was like, well, I'm not really sure.
And I'm like, OK, well, let's explore that.
In this list of things that you were doing, what did you like and what didn't you like?
What were things you would go, I don't want to do this.
This is something I don't like.
And I think sometimes asking people the negative question instead of the positive iseasier for them to answer.
(47:24):
People are much easier to tell you what I don't like and what they do like.
They are, maybe I kind of like this, I'm not really sure.
Okay, I don't like that, right?
I don't wanna do social media or I don't wanna do copywriting or I don't wanna do productmarketing or whatever that is, right?
They'll tell you those things.
(47:45):
I don't prefer to do graphics.
I prefer to have somebody else do them.
I can do them.
They're not my favorite because I look at things people design and I'm like, that'samazing.
And what I did, that's going to take me 18 hours to do that.
Same.
it won't look anywhere as good.
Right?
Yes.
So why would I try to do that?
Let me find somebody who can do that.
Right.
(48:05):
So I think people are the same way.
So when I sit down with an individual, asking them the negatives, asking them thepositives, but trying to get around it to where are the negatives, what are the things
that really bother you?
And then helping them build a job description that they want.
What is the job description?
If you were to say, this is my typical job.
(48:26):
By the way, this saves me time.
I'm not writing job descriptions.
Go write the job description of what you want to do here at this company.
And then let's talk about it, right?
And have a conversation.
So it's also helping them become a better leader and potentially a badass leader by
(48:47):
learning how to write these things and do these kinds of exercises.
Not answering questions for people, right?
Let them answer their own questions, coaching them instead of just mentoring or telling.
Those are all pieces that I use when I go in and talk to a team member, trying to figureout where do they belong.
And sometimes you just know, sometimes they're really good at data.
(49:11):
Okay, you belong in marketing automation.
Like over here in marketing ops.
This is where you are going to succeed and fly.
And they might be a little resistant.
And I say, great.
Let's just try it.
And I want you to do a couple of things here.
Let's lay out a plan, whatever.
And then they come back.
they're like, that was amazing.
That's exactly what I wanted to do.
Fantastic.
(49:32):
Let's build that.
Now, let's go do that.
And I've had team members leave because they loved it so much.
They could go.
and get paid more somewhere else for doing the job that I helped them be able to do in thefirst place.
And that's probably the most rewarding thing on the planet, honestly.
I don't get frustrated when good people leave like that, when they're running towardssomething.
(49:55):
It's okay.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think too, from my experience, when you grow team members to excel in something likethat, and then they grow in their next role of that, then it just reflects amazing on your
company.
So for all of the leaders who just cringed at the idea of, they're like, nevermind, I'mnot letting them write a job description, I'm going to lose all my team members.
(50:18):
You're absolutely not.
Because also what I have found is that,
when the team members sit down and write these things, some of the things are things thatthey aspire to do.
And then what you can do is you can help delineate and have check boxes or things likethat, checklists to help them get to there and help them understand.
(50:41):
Also, you can help them understand.
that then if they collaborate really well with their team and they're training theirreplacement, we should always, always be training our replacement, right?
Yes.
Then if we're doing that, then hey, they get to have even more success.
They get to have fun at work, bring the joy back into work, which should totally be there.
(51:04):
they get to any one individual who's having fun growing.
thriving and having joy at an organization is going to exude that into the entire team.
The team is going to become closer.
The organization is going to be way more successful.
And those are ROI bottom line numbers that quite frankly are very cheap to accomplishbecause really all you're doing is empowering them to set their job up for success.
(51:33):
Absolutely.
I couldn't have said it better.
That was perfect.
Yay.
Okay, so is there anything you really hope to recover today that we haven't covered?
think honestly we've gone the full gamut of all the things, but I want to just remind yourlisteners and even myself a little bit about the fact that as we grow and as we learn that
(51:57):
you can pivot and you can change and you can evolve.
And what I want to do is really help leaders rise from a whisper to being a warrior byorchestrating their harmony.
everywhere that they go so that they can actually make an impact on the world around themfor the greater good by using their influence.
(52:19):
I love this.
love this.
Okay, so it's time for favorite motivational quote.
So did you bring your favorite motivational quote for today?
to bring my favorite motivational quote.
And it is one of my favorites, A, because I love this leader.
Frankly, I think he did a lot for us during his time as a president, is from RonaldReagan.
(52:41):
And as a powerful peacemaker and believer in all of that, he said, peace is not theabsence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means.
And that's what true powerful peacemaking is.
I love it.
I love it.
And I almost forgot tell the listeners how they can find you and learn more about you.
(53:03):
I am on all the social platforms.
I am on LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook.
And I'm also building my website.
So it is there, but I'm still making tweaks.
It's theharmoniehero.com.
Well, thank you so much for bringing the badass in this podcast today.
We're really grateful.
(53:23):
Thank you so much Angela, this was great.
Awesome.
Thanks for joining me for today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast.
To hear more interviews with industry experts and learn how to grow your career andleadership potential, be sure to like, subscribe, and turn on notifications to ensure you
do not miss future episodes.
(53:45):
This podcast is a production of the AGN Group.
To learn more about the AGN Group, visit our website at theagngroup.com.
There you can discover
more about our services which include hosting workshops, management consulting, brandstrategy, keynote speaking, and more.
Follow us on all social media channels shown on the screen and displayed in the shownotes.
(54:10):
And until next week, be brave and be badass.
When I come in and talk to a leader, the first thing I want to do is be able to help themwield the weapon that is their best weapon in their toolbox.
And that's their voice.
So that's finding the confidence to say, hey, I have something to say, and it's important,and it's valuable, and this is why you need to hear it.
(00:21):
Welcome back to the Badass Leaders podcast.
Today, we are thrilled to welcome the amazing Sherry Grody.
Sherry is an accomplished international marketing executive, a truly badass leader, and apersonal and admired friend of mine.
Sherry is the CEO and founder of the Harmony Hero Initiative.
(00:45):
She uses her joyful and empowering voice and the Harmony Hero framework to equip leaderswith practical
tools to inspire transformation, foster connection, and achieve extraordinary results.
She has 25 years of experience driving measurable outcomes by aligning teams, strategies,and messaging to generate meaningful engagement and revenue growth for B2B SaaS
(01:09):
organizations.
Okay, if you're new to the podcast, or if you've been listening for a while and youhaven't subscribed yet,
Please take a moment and click that subscribe button.
helps ensure we're successful so that we can continue to bring you amazing leaders eachweek and that you don't miss an opportunity to learn and grow with us.
(01:30):
And if you leave a comment on the episode, I will be sure to respond personally to it.
So are you ready?
Let's do it.
Join me, Angela Gill Nelms, on today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast, where I'mjoined each week by industry experts
experts for intimate and eye-opening discussions about the challenges and joys facing theleaders of today.
(01:54):
Listen in and get ready to scale your company, grow your brand, and unlock your fullbadass potential.
Okay, well, Sherry, welcome to the Badass Leaders podcast.
Yeah, we're super stoked.
(02:15):
Okay, so, you know, I have this problem.
First off, the listeners heard the intro.
They know that we are good friends as well.
And so this is extra special for me.
So I'm grateful that you made your trek to AGM Studios in downtown Atlanta on a Mondaythrough traffic.
So that's pretty special.
It is, and I saw parts of Atlanta I have never been to before, so it was fantastic.
That's amazing.
(02:36):
It's a journey.
Okay, we're gonna continue the journey.
Why don't you kick us off by telling us about yourself and why you're here today.
So my name is Sheri Grote as you guys already know but I am an experienced revenue drivenmarketer and I was raised in marketing communications and as I evolved in my career I
(02:57):
became what I have considered a revenue marketer and what I've learned is that there's areal importance for marketers to be able to not only use words to use colors be able to
convey messages, but they also need to be able to use the data that comes from dataanalytics and being a data-driven marketer and using all of those tools to tell the story
(03:23):
of the success.
But the problem is, is when you swing the pendulum from not being able to tell it fromdata to using only data to tell the story.
I've learned that you actually can cause yourself still additional problems over herebecause this pendulum has swung too far and you need to find balance and harmony in
between the two.
(03:44):
So you have to be able to not only use your words, use your colors, use your peopleskills, use your political skills to communicate your message, but you need to have the
data that backs it up.
But the data alone will not save you when it comes to dealing with.
board members, with executives, with your teammates, with your peers and colleagues.
(04:05):
And so that's why I've created the Harmony Hero initiative to be able to help marketersand HR people who have a seat at the table actually use their voice to be heard at the
table.
Okay, so this is like marketing from every realm of the company basically is what you'restarting at.
Okay, let's dig in.
(04:25):
First off, let's roll back a little bit and let's find out who Sherry is as a human being.
So tell us a little bit of you outside of marketing.
Outside of marketing, I'm a mom to two of the most amazing toe-headed children on theplanet.
They are 19 and 21, both in college.
One's a business major and one is going to be a commercial pilot.
(04:48):
So that's fantastic and fun.
And we're learning all kinds of things about that.
I'm also a full-time caregiver to my husband who is a walking, talking miracle.
He had a brainstem stroke at the age of 43.
And so that's brought its own challenges with career, with care.
giving with learning to, one of my favorite phrases is, dead EMTs don't do anybody anygood.
(05:12):
So part of being a Harmony Hero is learning to take care of yourself so that you cancontinue to care for those that you take care of on a regular basis, whether that's your
kids, your family, your teammates, your people at work, whatever.
And I am a licensed pastor.
It's not something that I talk about a lot with everybody, but it is a huge part of mylife.
(05:33):
Faith is a huge part of my journey and a lot of the roller coasters that I've dealt within life, I don't know how I would have done them without my faith.
So that's a huge part of my life too.
Okay, I love this because I do recall you at one point telling me that you're a licensedpassenger.
Okay, but I want to dig in a little bit.
How did Sherry get into marketing and what made you decide to become a licensed passenger?
(05:57):
I love it.
Like the laughing already.
Well, I laugh because marketing was like a natural for me.
It was just as a matter of fact, as a kid, my mom used to look at my book reports and theywere beautiful and they were colored and they had stickers on them and they had all the
things, right?
And she'd look at it and she'd say, does the inside have as much quality as the outside?
(06:21):
And she wasn't wrong.
mean, like I had put the time and effort into it, but it couldn't just be.
the look and the feel, right?
It wasn't just about making it pretty and make it sound good.
It also had to actually be good.
And I just naturally fell into marketing.
What's interesting about it is I went to Kennesaw State University when it was becoming auniversity.
(06:41):
So they were going through their accreditation process.
Classes were really, really tough.
And the gentleman who taught our PR class, I really wanted to go into PR and be ajournalist and
used communication as part of my lifestyle.
And he was a professor in a senior level class and I was a freshman taking this class.
(07:04):
And he said on the first day of class, for those of you who are taking communicationsbecause you didn't want to take economics and finance and accounting and da da da da,
you're stupid.
Because it's going to take you five years of working in a nothing job to get theexperience that you need to get to where you actually really want to go.
I literally left the class, went down to the registrar's office, changed fromcommunications to marketing, and went, well, that's what I should have been all along.
(07:32):
So that's how I ended up in marketing.
I that.
love that.
So never really thought you're going to go into marketing, but I mean, how grateful areyou that that professor said it like it was, right?
mean, how many spring graduating seniors were hearing that for the first time and freakedout because they didn't know.
And he was a big wig here in Atlanta.
He actually wrote the book that we were using for that class.
(07:54):
So he was somebody to be listening to in that field.
So he wasn't one of those, you know how you run into some people and they say things atcertain stages of their career like that and they're just really ornery and grumpy and
you're just like, are you always that miserable in your life?
He wasn't one of those people.
No, really meant it.
He really meant it.
Right, right.
right, right.
Well, that's awesome.
Okay.
(08:14):
So then how did you get into becoming a pastor on the spiritual side?
There's a whole other story altogether.
We started going to a church down in Atlanta called City of Refuge.
And we just started growing relationships with different people.
We ended up becoming part of a secondary branch.
(08:37):
The church is no longer around since COVID, but it was Refuge West.
And the pastors there really invested in our lives.
And we had gone through, when my kids were little, we went through our certificate ofministry, my husband and I both.
And we would bring the kids to church on Sunday.
We would set them up in the nursery.
(08:58):
It would just be the two of them with snacks and sleeping bags and movies and things likethat.
And we would go take our theology classes and all the things that we needed to learn.
And then we would go home in the afternoon and have our regular family time.
Well, I didn't know that was gonna turn into actually being a licensed pastor.
But I love kids.
(09:19):
I love middle schoolers.
And I know most people...
Yeah, most people do not love middle schoolers.
I love middle schoolers a lot.
Because when you're not their parent, they listen to you.
And you're still kind of cool if you're not stodgy and whatever.
And they're so eager to learn.
(09:39):
And they are hungry for a reason to live this crazy, chaotic life that exists.
And so I was working with the youth there and as it progressed and I got my certificate ofministry finished, our pastor said, I really think you're supposed to get licensed.
And what that has done for me is create a path that I never thought was going to exist.
(10:06):
We participate in a retreat that is called a three-day retreat.
It's called Trasteas.
And I sat in that retreat 20...
almost 22 years ago, and I was listening to the people give talks, and they're justeveryday normal people that give talks on this thing.
And I said, God would never ask me to speak because I don't have anything to say.
(10:30):
I really didn't believe that I had a voice that was worth listening to.
And that carried through most of my career and everything.
wasn't just my personal life, it was in my career as well.
And...
The funny thing is now when I work those kinds of weekends with young adults, it's the 15to 21 year old group, all I do is talk because I'm a spiritual director.
(10:56):
So don't tell God what you're not going to be capable of because he's just going to laughand he's going to say, ha ha, watch this.
And now he wants me to do a TED talk and he wants me to write this book and he wants me totake this initiative for the Harmony Hero.
into places that I never thought I would go to, all because of what started with somethingabout not having a voice.
(11:21):
I love that, I love that.
Because so much is about having a voice and so many individuals, I mean, you are notalone.
The type of person who says, okay, why would I even do this?
I have nothing to say.
Or really, I think a lot of people think no one wants to hear anything I have to say.
opening up those doors is super special.
(11:43):
Okay, let's dig into marketing.
So before you started the Harmony Hero, you have worked in large.
company organizations and you've done a lot of, I took a note because one of the thingsthat you mentioned was, is it at Mac Stadium that you used to be at?
when you were there, since we're gonna talk about leadership and marketing as well, whenyou were there, you solidified a disjointed team, finding the right place for each person,
(12:11):
hiring to fill the gaps and supporting them to reach their full potential.
So a couple of thoughts, questions we had is, can you describe to the listeners
what your perspective on a disjointed team is.
Absolutely.
So in that particular circumstance, there had been a lot of change, a lot of leadershipchanges.
(12:31):
There still are to this day, actually.
That team, they had no vision.
They had no idea what their roles were individually.
They crossed over each other all the time and they weren't doing things that they loveddoing.
And so therefore they were just doing stuff.
(12:51):
That's the way I, that's the nice way of saying it.
They were just doing stuff.
It wasn't necessarily effective.
It wasn't what they were passionate about.
It wasn't what they wanted to do with their life.
Nobody was mentoring them or growing them.
And I really believed when I entered the organization that they were quitting.
And they were.
Like that was the path.
Everybody was.
(13:12):
think is at a lot of organizations, right?
To be able to identify the individuals who are not engaged, who aren't really passionateabout whatever their goals are, that is an early indicator of someone who is not going to
be there for very long.
That's it.
And so when I came in, and I haven't done this at just one company, I've actually done itat five.
(13:34):
And they are what I call startups or startups with legs, right?
So maybe they've gotten their series A, B or C funding, or maybe they're bootstrapped andI've helped them raise their round of capital.
And I've walked into these very disorganized marketing organizations and created what Icall marketing engines, demand gen engines for these organizations.
(13:57):
And the first step every single time is to not go in and assess the people to find out whoyou need to get rid of.
It's to find out who is underutilized.
Because I do feel, especially in marketing, that marketers feel unheard, unseen, andundervalued.
(14:18):
Always.
And I find very few who are incredibly confident, especially if they're females.
That is so fascinating because I love hearing that from an insider's perspective becausefrom an outsider working with marketing teams, I would have never guessed that.
mean, from the outside, the marketing teams I have worked with have always appeared to bevery confident.
(14:46):
Most companies have the highest budget of anyone in the organization.
So everyone else is kind of like, why is marketing getting all the money?
You know, all of that kind of stuff.
So I've never had that perspective.
They are under the gun all the time.
Marketing is the first place that gets cut.
They may have the biggest budgets, but if you can't prove that you are actually generatingresults and making an impact, you are the first to be cut, always.
(15:13):
And I've had that experience as well, right?
I've had my teams cut, my budgets cut, all kinds of things, just because either thecompany wasn't doing well, the sales team was disorganized,
or whatever.
wasn't always because marketing wasn't doing well.
It was because either A, we weren't using our voice in the right way.
(15:35):
We weren't using our influence to actually show that we're making an impact.
And I've been at fault for that.
That's some of the lessons that I've learned in my lifetime.
And I want to help other people not make those same decisions and same choices.
I want them to learn from somebody else's mistakes.
Okay, let's talk about impact.
So impact, I'm very passionate about impact because I have the perspective you only liveone life.
(16:01):
Make every single moment that you can count.
And I think that oftentimes team members, especially team members that might be on moreentry or junior level feel as if they don't have the ability to make an impact.
And I strongly disagree with that.
I believe everyone can make an impact.
every level of an organization and every stage.
(16:21):
So can you tell us what is your, when you're looking at and you're working with a teammember, let's just say you have a disjointed team and you identify a few team members in
there that don't appear to be engaged.
You think they're on the fence to leave and they're having these motivation, confidencechallenges, and yet you know they can make an impact.
(16:42):
What, tell us some of the steps that you would use to collaborate with them to help thembe successful.
I think it always starts with conversations and communications.
And it's not about necessarily just scheduled time.
popping in and saying hi, even if it's on Zoom, right?
Like we live in a digital world of remote and all of that.
(17:05):
It's having time where you're learning about them.
What are the challenges in their life?
What's happening in their world?
Understanding is there something going on at home that's impacting their work and they'renot being effective?
If so, let's work through that challenge.
Let's find a better way to have a work-life balance, especially if it's somebody that youknow can do the job really, really well.
(17:28):
And they just need some, either some extra guidance, some extra motivation, or they justneed a little bit of space.
Maybe that's what they need.
And I've had employees like that, right?
A father died, or someone has cancer, and it's impacting their work.
And I still need results out of that person, but...
I have found in my experience by giving them space and giving them grace to have a littlebit of extra space for themselves.
(17:55):
They come back and they work harder.
They still give out even when they should be taking time for themselves.
They're like, no, she really cares about me because nobody wants to do anything for youuntil they know that you really care about them.
Right.
And so that's where I start.
They need to know that I care and I'm on their side.
(18:16):
When I start a new role with an organization, I always give a basket of gifts.
It's funny, I didn't think I was gonna talk about this today.
I love that.
But I always give a gift basket and everybody gets the same thing in them and they're alldifferent times based on whatever I know about the company and what's going on.
But there's several things that are always in the basket.
(18:38):
There's always Play-Doh, because I love Play-Doh and crayons and markers.
Those are all my favorite from being marketing communications, right?
And so there's always that.
The Plato's there because you get squished, pushed, changed, stretched, whatever, but youcan still go back in the container and it's okay.
You're still whole.
And so I always tell them that, right?
And, and then there's always little other things, whatever they might be.
(19:01):
But the other thing that I always put in there is an umbrella.
And I promised them as the leader coming in, especially if they've been through a lot ofchange and they've either had a lot of marketing leader changes or it's just been bad.
and that's why it's disjointed and it's dysfunctional.
I come in and I say, I am got you covered.
(19:21):
Like I will take the heat for whatever's coming on down the pike, right?
And I'm gonna deflect it off of you.
What I need you to do is do the job really well that you were hired to do.
And I promise to protect you.
Exactly.
And I think that's part of being a good leader.
That's part of being a badass leader, frankly.
(19:43):
Yeah, totally.
And if you don't do that, you don't protect your team and they don't have psychologicalsafety in their space, they're not going to give you 120%.
And in today's world where people are cutting people out of companies left and right, andpeople are having to wear more hats, and they need to have a better focus and better
(20:05):
organization and better skills and wear these and be a Jill of all trades.
You know, they need to have psychological safety in order to do that and do it well.
Yeah, I love that.
So any funny stories about giving that gift basket to someone and them being like, did Icome back to like elementary school or why am I getting played out?
(20:26):
Every single person, I mean, I've mailed them to some people.
in the remote world.
I have had every single one of them send me a note.
Every single one of them.
It's the coolest gift ever.
That was so cool.
And it wasn't, and so that's why I kept doing it, right?
Because the first time and it worked in every, and I even had a guy on the team that Ithought, he's going to think this is cheesy and corny or whatever.
(20:51):
no, they loved it.
And they walked away.
feeling like they had a leader that they might be able to still stick it out with, eventhough the organization was dysfunctional prior to that.
So I
love the I mean, the Play-Doh really stands out to me as something so unique.
(21:12):
And I love the idea of having that like on your desk and just seeing at all times is aconstant reminder.
I'm a big believer in some tokens and stuff like that as constant reminders of things.
So that's fascinating.
Now, where did you come up with this idea?
Did you have a leader do something similar?
No, you just came out amazing, because you're in marketing.
This makes sense.
(21:32):
Well, you take my faith and you take my personality and you take my skill sets and putthem all together and God just gives good ideas.
He gives the best ideas, frankly.
Yeah, so that was one of the questions that I had next was that you've driven a desire tomake a meaningful impact and foster growth wherever you go.
(21:54):
think what is, when you look back at your life, what do you think set or created thatmindset in you to have this as kind of the legacy that you want?
So I think there's probably a couple of major stories that come into part of your originstory of who you are and who you become and whatever.
(22:19):
I remember having a conversation with my dad.
My parents were divorced when I was young and I was 13 and I just wanted to spend timewith him.
I literally just wanted to go out and have pizza with my dad, right?
And he had a new family.
He was trying to engage with the family, trying to bring us all together and said, no, weneed to do things as a family.
(22:47):
And I didn't understand that at 13.
And I got really upset.
And I was crying.
And I just got really mad.
And he finally said the thing that broke the straw for me and changed a lot in mylifetime.
He said, we'll discuss this when you're rational.
And I said, OK, well then I guess we won't discuss it at all.
And I slammed the phone down as hard as I could.
(23:08):
Like, I didn't even know I could slam something that hard.
No offense, but are 13 year olds really typically rational?
Not really, not really.
I don't think so.
And I was pretty upset and I never got upset.
See, I was a peacekeeper.
That's who I was.
And peacekeeping is not the same as peacemaking.
(23:30):
And that is where I birthed the concept and idea of powerful peacemaking.
It went all back to that moment because for the first time in my life, the very first timeI ever
said, I don't really care what anybody else thinks or what anybody else wants.
I'm not happy with this result and I don't care if I'm making you happy or not.
(23:56):
And not that that was necessarily the right thing.
And again, I now as an adult have a lot of compassion for my dad and the circumstance.
He wasn't trying to do anything wrong.
He was doing the best he could.
And yet I learned that
You don't have to make everybody happy to actually make peace.
(24:20):
And that's where the Harmony Hero got birthed.
Yeah, okay, so let's talk about the Harmony Hero Initiative framework.
So it's the Harmony Hero framework.
And so it started in your early years when you suddenly finally, or finally, actually Ithink 13 is really young to realize that you don't have to agree with everyone, you don't
(24:41):
have to make everyone happy.
I think the world would be a better place if most of us figured that out, 13 quitefrankly.
I know I did not figure that out at 13.
I think I was in my 30s before I figured that out.
So.
So when you think back at that and you look at, because I think when you've talked alittle bit about the Harmony Hero framework, it is a culmination of your 25 years of
(25:01):
experience building phenomenal teams, collaborating, having failures in certain areas, andidentifying some of these things.
So can you walk us through?
First off, what the framework is and kind of why you chose some of those pieces to be inthe framework.
Yeah.
(25:22):
Absolutely.
So born out of a desire right to build a group of powerful peacemakers because that's partof the problem right is we have conflict in this world and it is chaotic and I don't want
to be the only one I did figure out that that is the 5 % that makes me different
So I know I am a Harmony hero.
(25:44):
And it's part of what has made me successful, even in the failures, right?
And finding that balance and learning how to be emotionally intelligent.
How to...
foster alignment in an organization, how to be resilient when things don't go your way,right?
And to motivate your team members, A, in the way they want to be motivated, and B, in away that celebrates what they did right, not what they did wrong.
(26:12):
And unfortunately, I think there's a lot of leaders who are not badass leaders thatmotivate you or try to motivate you out of, you did this wrong, don't do this again, and.
whatever, and I don't want to be that kind of leader.
So it's the right kind of motivation.
And you have to be open-minded.
And in your open-mindedness, it's not just about somebody else's ideas.
(26:34):
It's also finding new ways and creative ways and thinking outside the box of what doestraditional, especially in B2B, what does traditional B2B say marketing should be doing?
Well, maybe we shouldn't, right?
Maybe we should try something new and take something that B2C is doing and...
apply it in a way that makes sense, right?
Now we're going to break it down the acronyms because since I am from have worked in asoftware world and V2B and V2C makes a lot of sense to me.
(27:02):
I know that we have a diverse group audience and they may not know and we'll talk a littlebit about your SAS experience.
Maybe can you go ahead and define what V2B, V2C and SAS.
Absolutely, and you're absolutely right.
There's so many acronyms in this world that it can get crazy.
So B2B is business to business and business to consumer is B2C.
(27:23):
There's a third one now that's direct to consumer.
So that's D2C.
So there's different types of marketing and different theologies and different pathways toget to each one.
you define to the listener though the difference between a business and a consumer?
So it's interesting because I don't believe there is a difference.
(27:45):
The world believes there's a difference.
But people buy your solutions.
They are consumers.
Whether you're buying business to business, or business to consumer, or direct toconsumer, it's still consumers.
They're still human beings.
And you still have to communicate with them, reach them on an emotional level, and make animpact that they're willing to purchase your solution.
(28:06):
Because people buy from people they like and people they trust.
Right, right, right.
And so in the, what the rest of the world thinks of as business to business is a businessbuying a piece of software because they're going to use it in their business practice.
And it's maybe not, and it's not the end product of what they have, but it's a piece ofsomething they're using to get to their end product.
(28:31):
Correct.
Versus a business to consumer, in theory, the consumer is buying the end product thatthey're gonna use.
the store and you buy something off the shelf at Target.
Where it's like you go to the grocery store and you buy an apple because you're makingapple pie.
Yes.
Or you're Publix and you're buying apples from an organic farmer down the street.
(28:52):
know, B2B versus B2C.
Exactly.
That was kind of fun.
I like that analogy.
You did really good, Angela.
Score, score, score.
And then SAS, Software as a Service.
So have you spent your entire career in software?
no, you've been everywhere?
have been in tech.
So I grew up in wireless.
I was in Internet of Things as a startup that actually we made it all the way to two daysbefore our IPO and the market crashed.
(29:21):
So I've had a lot of on the job training of what doesn't work and how much of it is timingas much as it is anything else.
But I spent a lot of time in IoT, wireless and antennas for all things.
I sold
the cellular antennas that go up on the cell towers.
So I've done it all, but I've really found my sweet spot in B2B sat.
(29:45):
Yeah, okay, I love it.
let's talk about the frame going back to the framework again.
So if you're so you do consulting as well for companies using the framework, what does itlook like when you're coming in and you're evaluating a team and then addressing pieces of
framework?
What does that look like?
So I really want to start with the leaders is who I really want to start with and thenworkshop with their teams later.
(30:12):
Because if you don't start with the leader, you don't make any change.
Right, you have to get that by any...
buy-in and that leader I believe where I can help the most right now is marketing becauseI've lived that life.
I've sat in that seat.
I know what it feels like when you're marginalized, unseen and unheard.
And I've seen a lot of HR leaders in the same boat.
(30:37):
So they have a seat at the table.
but they're pushed aside by the other C-suite and, they're just the hiring person or,they're just the compliance person or, they're just, and they don't really, they also feel
very marginalized and unseen, frankly.
And I've talked to a lot of HR leaders who feel that way.
(30:58):
And so when I come in and talk to a leader, the first thing I want to do is be able tohelp them wield the weapon that is their
best weapon in their toolbox, and that's their voice.
So that's finding the confidence to say, hey, I have something to say and it's importantand it's valuable and this is why you need to hear it.
(31:22):
But in order to use your voice in an appropriate way, you need to use that harmonyframework.
So you need to have an EQ that is very high, that's listening to what somebody else needs.
that's right.
yes.
Emotional intelligence.
So
That's all about listening to other people, finding out what it is that they need and howyou can actually help them because once you help them, they're more than likely going to
(31:48):
help you and you build trust when you have better emotional intelligence.
So that's why that's always the first part of the framework.
Alignment goes falls right into that, right?
Once you start building that rapport and you're aligned, if that leader is aligned to theother peers in their group,
then that peer group is going to function at a higher level, right?
(32:12):
So we haven't even talked about the team itself, the marketing team, but just in yourpeers, how do you get that resolved?
There's gonna be things that go right and things that go wrong.
So you have to know how to bounce back and that's where resiliency comes in.
And then again, motivation, open-mindedness, navigational, and celebrating progress overperfection through the youthfulness of that.
(32:37):
Now, when I talk to leaders, they need to figure out what their superpower is, right?
Because they may not have all of those already in 100 % capacity and being utilized.
So which ones are working really well for you?
So assessing that, where do you fall on that scale?
Which one of those areas do you need the most help with?
(32:58):
And then I would work with them to get them to a level that's a higher level than wherethey are now.
And then I would love to work with their team, right?
To workshop.
with their team on either solving a problem that they have, building team building skills,because the more those teams trust each other, believe in each other, have psychological
safety, the more effective they're gonna be for the organization.
(33:21):
But even more than that, they're gonna make an impact on the world, because they're goingto make an impact on the greater good because they're better human beings because of it.
So tell us what are some of your favorite go-to team building exercises that allow teammembers to open up and really trust each other?
So one of my favorite ones that I used, I've used it in most of the workshops that I'vedone with my own teams and it's the spaghetti marshmallow challenge.
(33:51):
my gosh, I do not know.
You don't know this one?
Oh, this is awesome.
So you give them all the same number of pieces of thin spaghetti.
Cooked.
Uncooked.
Okay.
And then you give them a marshmallow and the team that builds the tallest structure thatstands.
wins.
And they get really creative.
(34:12):
Now I've used this in youth groups.
I've used it in my marketing teams.
I've used it at SPS.
Putting the marshmallow on the top of the, so they're holding.
So you give them that and nothing else and they've got to figure out how to make that.
like, it's super, it's like, I'm trying to picture this.
(34:33):
It's like super thin toothpicks, right?
Yes, yes.
Or like popsicle sticks.
It's not easy.
And so everyone has one and they, like they could do maybe a teepee and put, do they getone marshmallow?
They get one marshmallow and I don't remember you can vary the number of I have to Googlenoodles for this.
It's great.
You definitely need to Google it.
(34:54):
And it's a wonderful thing to try with your team, especially since you have a new team anda new scenario.
So I would highly recommend it.
It's fun.
They they love it, especially if you have people in your group who are
a little more technical or maybe they're very process oriented.
They love that kind of stuff because it's building, creating.
Marketers in general love to build and create.
(35:16):
But if you get the technical people involved to that, that works really well.
Okay, one of the things that I love about team building exercises like this, when you put,especially if you put a diverse team together, but anyway, when you put a team together is
I love to observe because you can learn so much about each team member when you'reobserving.
(35:36):
So tell me some of the things that you're looking for when you're watching themcollaborate as a team.
I'm looking to see if there's one person in the group that's doing all the talking or isthere somebody who is your utility player?
Somebody that knows there's a goal, they know what the end result is supposed to be,right?
(36:00):
You have the goal to make the tallest thing and they bring out the skills in the otherpeople while they're doing it.
They don't just, that's your MVP.
And I talk about that on my website too.
And the reason why I say that is because that's part of how I ended up where I am.
(36:21):
I had been at a team building exercise with.
with one of the companies that I worked at.
We went down to Naples, Florida and we had a coach there and she was teaching us aboutemotional intelligence, but we had to solve a real challenge in these teams.
And it was the first time I'd ever done a personality profile test.
(36:42):
So, and that particular one was the DISC.
So it's, yeah.
Disc?
Yes, the disc profile.
And I'm a high I, I'm off the charts.
I don't remember what I is intuitive or what was what's I in that?
Okay, we'll put in the show notes later.
keep meaning to look up this because it's come up on another and there are so manydifferent
(37:02):
could be influential.
It could be that.
I'm not sure.
But it makes sense for a marketing person, right, in general to be that.
But I'm a high eye and I got stuck in a group with all Ds.
And we couldn't get anything done.
And I'm like, we have this task.
We have this list of things we have to do and we have to solve this and then we have tomake a presentation and we have to do this tonight in like two hours.
(37:28):
So let's get going.
Come on.
And I worked with them.
to get them to go through the process.
And I didn't know I was doing anything special.
I didn't realize that what I was doing was drawing the best out of others.
It was just something that I had innately.
And the person who was leading the team building exercise, she told the CEO, she's like,that's your MVP.
(37:55):
You tell her what you want done, she's gonna find a way, no matter who's in the room withher, to get the job done.
and she's going to do it effectively and she's going to do it well.
And we had to present that night and then we were judged and we were competing and I'mincredibly competitive.
I don't like to lose at all.
And my team of D's who would normally want to be in charge of everything were like, you'representing.
(38:19):
No, you wrapped this whole thing up with a pretty bow.
So no, you're doing the presenting.
I was like, I don't know if I want to do that.
they're like, no, go, go, go, go.
You're going to be fine.
And we won the competition.
So I didn't know.
that she had told him that.
And I had actually been struggling with him because he was a very hard to please leader.
And here I was, right, a former peacekeeper trying to be peacemaker.
(38:42):
And I couldn't find a way to make him happy at all.
And all of a sudden things changed.
And the next year we went back for the team building and she told me what she had said tohim.
And she said, yeah, I told him you were the MVP.
and that you were the utility player that would get the job done.
(39:04):
And I said, wow, I had no idea, but it made a difference and he become a different leaderwith me in bringing out more leadership in me at that point.
So it not only helped me personally, but it helped him because then he became a betterleader and he ended up being a pretty badass leader too.
It just was harder for me to get to that point with him.
(39:25):
It took a little more time.
But that's what I look for.
I'm looking for people who can be like that because that's the one I want to spend themost time with.
That's the one I want to help coach to get to the next level because they already havethat skills.
The others, I'm going to work with them on the skills.
But that one is your MVP.
That's who you're going to go after.
(39:46):
You know I was thinking about when you were telling the story?
thought this is why for leaders, it's so important to bring in outside consultants andcoaches and things like that.
Even the most amazing leaders to bring out someone who has a completely non-biased view,who can observe from a whole new framework.
(40:08):
and then identify areas that could have gone years without realizing that connection.
And you grew a lot as a result of it.
He grew a lot, or your leader, he or she grew a lot out of it.
And I'm quite confident the teams that you both collaborated with also grew because ofthat.
And if you had not brought in someone who could be a third party observer to watch that,also, if you hadn't...
(40:34):
done, I love the thing I love about team building exercises when they're done like this isthat sometimes people think, oh, they're just a waste of time.
They're not bringing in money.
They're not bringing in ROI.
They're playtime and we don't have time for recess.
It's not all, right?
It can bring so much value into, not only are people more productive when they feel thatpsychological safety and they've done team building, you can also identify
(41:04):
your superstars and the team members that, hey, are the drop of vinegar that's boiling themilk or the ones that just need, you can also, I've identified people who I'm like, okay,
that person didn't talk the whole time, but I know they're amazing.
Right, right.
do I get them out?
How do I get their voice to be heard?
Yes, absolutely.
(41:24):
Yeah, I love that.
so what what made you decide then to do because you've done a little bit of your a pivotof your career to transition and focus on this.
What was that driver?
think it was finally the last straw of I don't want to have to answer to someone else allthe time about what is good and what is not good or what is effective and what is not
(41:53):
effective.
And honestly, between my professional, my personal, my caregiving, all of those thingscoming together,
I really wanted to step into a purpose that was going to be impactful for other people andnot just have a job.
I've had jobs, you know, or things that I thought I was investing my heart and soul intoand part of my career and I've had amazing experiences, but at the same time, you can be
(42:25):
turned around and dropped at the drop of a hat.
And I don't want to do that.
I would rather make an impact that's lasting in the world.
And I can do that by helping other people learn the skills that I've learned.
Love it.
So let's talk a little bit because I know you've worked with teams internationally.
And when I think about, I'm going to call them soft skills, although I don't necessarilylove that phrase of it.
(42:51):
But anyway, when I think of some of the skills that you're talking about,
The way that they manifest and they're presented to different cultures can be quitedifferent.
Yes.
So tell me a little bit more about your experience, maybe some challenges, maybe somegotcha moments.
I don't know if you want to have a vulnerable moment there.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
One of the things that I have learned, I've loved working internationally.
(43:13):
It's been part of what I have really enjoyed in my career.
I've been to some amazing places just because of it, right?
But there are differences.
We act differently in different places because of how we've grown up.
And I think that some of it's been fun and some of it's been challenging.
So let me tell you about the fun ones.
(43:33):
Working with salespeople in Ireland.
Very fun.
I I love the accents.
Oh, yes.
mean, the accents are amazing.
You could listen all day long, right?
But I had a gentleman that I'm still friends with today.
And every time I talked to him, there was a whole new phrase that I'd never heard ordidn't understand.
(43:59):
And he's the one that taught me, and I don't even know if we can say this on the podcast,but I didn't know that pissed didn't mean angry in their language.
I didn't know that either.
It meant being drunk.
And he would say, got so pissed last night.
And I was like, well, why were you so angry?
No, it took like three weeks before I figured out what he was talking about because he hadto explain it to me.
(44:23):
things like that.
We both speak English, right?
But words mean things, and they mean different things to different people.
And I think that's one of the things that can be both fun and challenging.
if you're working in an international world.
So some of my gotchas, I'd say a word that I think everybody understands.
And I realized that half the room did not track with me at all.
(44:45):
So yeah, you can have some experiences that are not the best.
That is Sister Colson now.
go to Ireland, I'll try and remember that piece.
That is pretty funny.
Okay, so tell me about you really, in a lot of your focus, you excel at...
(45:10):
identifying the superpowers of different individuals at different levels.
So, know, many, I have observed that many leaders really struggle at either putting teammembers in the best role for them or transitioning them into roles that are the best fit
for them.
So tell me a little bit about how you identify if they're in the right role or not.
(45:31):
And then how do you approach a situation where that individual would be much moresuccessful in another role and they now need to transition?
Yes.
So that's obviously when we go back to what we were talking about earlier, that'sobviously the first thing I do when I go into a team.
And again, not assessing for whether we should keep them or not, but assessing for arethey in the right roles?
Because if you have the right people on the bus, that's great.
(45:53):
But if they're not in the right seats, that doesn't help you a whole lot, right?
So both are important.
And when I go in and I am looking at a team and an organization and people,
what their skill sets are.
You also have to listen to what they want because they will tell you if you will listen.
(46:17):
And sometimes it requires asking it multiple times in different ways before you get allthe information you need.
examples?
What are some ways you might ask me?
So I guess so one of the examples was I had a team member who was who didn't have adefined role period they no job description.
(46:38):
No nothing.
I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
So what do you do in the team?
start telling me all the things they do and like, okay, that's great.
What what that does?
None of that fits into a role.
Like if you're thinking about a job description, like none of that fits in there.
That's just
a mishmash of stuff.
(46:59):
And so the more we talked, I was like, well, what do you really want to do?
And she was like, well, I'm not really sure.
And I'm like, OK, well, let's explore that.
In this list of things that you were doing, what did you like and what didn't you like?
What were things you would go, I don't want to do this.
This is something I don't like.
And I think sometimes asking people the negative question instead of the positive iseasier for them to answer.
(47:24):
People are much easier to tell you what I don't like and what they do like.
They are, maybe I kind of like this, I'm not really sure.
Okay, I don't like that, right?
I don't wanna do social media or I don't wanna do copywriting or I don't wanna do productmarketing or whatever that is, right?
They'll tell you those things.
(47:45):
I don't prefer to do graphics.
I prefer to have somebody else do them.
I can do them.
They're not my favorite because I look at things people design and I'm like, that'samazing.
And what I did, that's going to take me 18 hours to do that.
Same.
it won't look anywhere as good.
Right?
Yes.
So why would I try to do that?
Let me find somebody who can do that.
Right.
(48:05):
So I think people are the same way.
So when I sit down with an individual, asking them the negatives, asking them thepositives, but trying to get around it to where are the negatives, what are the things
that really bother you?
And then helping them build a job description that they want.
What is the job description?
If you were to say, this is my typical job.
(48:26):
By the way, this saves me time.
I'm not writing job descriptions.
Go write the job description of what you want to do here at this company.
And then let's talk about it, right?
And have a conversation.
So it's also helping them become a better leader and potentially a badass leader by
(48:47):
learning how to write these things and do these kinds of exercises.
Not answering questions for people, right?
Let them answer their own questions, coaching them instead of just mentoring or telling.
Those are all pieces that I use when I go in and talk to a team member, trying to figureout where do they belong.
And sometimes you just know, sometimes they're really good at data.
(49:11):
Okay, you belong in marketing automation.
Like over here in marketing ops.
This is where you are going to succeed and fly.
And they might be a little resistant.
And I say, great.
Let's just try it.
And I want you to do a couple of things here.
Let's lay out a plan, whatever.
And then they come back.
they're like, that was amazing.
That's exactly what I wanted to do.
Fantastic.
(49:32):
Let's build that.
Now, let's go do that.
And I've had team members leave because they loved it so much.
They could go.
and get paid more somewhere else for doing the job that I helped them be able to do in thefirst place.
And that's probably the most rewarding thing on the planet, honestly.
I don't get frustrated when good people leave like that, when they're running towardssomething.
(49:55):
It's okay.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think too, from my experience, when you grow team members to excel in something likethat, and then they grow in their next role of that, then it just reflects amazing on your
company.
So for all of the leaders who just cringed at the idea of, they're like, nevermind, I'mnot letting them write a job description, I'm going to lose all my team members.
(50:18):
You're absolutely not.
Because also what I have found is that,
when the team members sit down and write these things, some of the things are things thatthey aspire to do.
And then what you can do is you can help delineate and have check boxes or things likethat, checklists to help them get to there and help them understand.
(50:41):
Also, you can help them understand.
that then if they collaborate really well with their team and they're training theirreplacement, we should always, always be training our replacement, right?
Yes.
Then if we're doing that, then hey, they get to have even more success.
They get to have fun at work, bring the joy back into work, which should totally be there.
(51:04):
they get to any one individual who's having fun growing.
thriving and having joy at an organization is going to exude that into the entire team.
The team is going to become closer.
The organization is going to be way more successful.
And those are ROI bottom line numbers that quite frankly are very cheap to accomplishbecause really all you're doing is empowering them to set their job up for success.
(51:33):
Absolutely.
I couldn't have said it better.
That was perfect.
Yay.
Okay, so is there anything you really hope to recover today that we haven't covered?
think honestly we've gone the full gamut of all the things, but I want to just remind yourlisteners and even myself a little bit about the fact that as we grow and as we learn that
(51:57):
you can pivot and you can change and you can evolve.
And what I want to do is really help leaders rise from a whisper to being a warrior byorchestrating their harmony.
everywhere that they go so that they can actually make an impact on the world around themfor the greater good by using their influence.
(52:19):
I love this.
love this.
Okay, so it's time for favorite motivational quote.
So did you bring your favorite motivational quote for today?
to bring my favorite motivational quote.
And it is one of my favorites, A, because I love this leader.
Frankly, I think he did a lot for us during his time as a president, is from RonaldReagan.
(52:41):
And as a powerful peacemaker and believer in all of that, he said, peace is not theabsence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means.
And that's what true powerful peacemaking is.
I love it.
I love it.
And I almost forgot tell the listeners how they can find you and learn more about you.
(53:03):
I am on all the social platforms.
I am on LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook.
And I'm also building my website.
So it is there, but I'm still making tweaks.
It's theharmoniehero.com.
Well, thank you so much for bringing the badass in this podcast today.
We're really grateful.
(53:23):
Thank you so much Angela, this was great.
Awesome.
Thanks for joining me for today's episode of the Badass Leaders podcast.
To hear more interviews with industry experts and learn how to grow your career andleadership potential, be sure to like, subscribe, and turn on notifications to ensure you
do not miss future episodes.
(53:45):
This podcast is a production of the AGN Group.
To learn more about the AGN Group, visit our website at theagngroup.com.
There you can discover
more about our services which include hosting workshops, management consulting, brandstrategy, keynote speaking, and more.
Follow us on all social media channels shown on the screen and displayed in the shownotes.
(54:10):
And until next week, be brave and be badass.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.