January 15, 2025 • 56 mins
Sometimes life throws us curveballs that feel impossible to dodge. In this raw and deeply personal episode, I sit down with Olivia Chapman for a conversation that’s less about business and more about life’s messy middle—the part we don’t often share on Instagram. Together, we unpack the reality of hitting rock bottom, navigating toxic relationships, and the brave decision to start over.
Olivia opens up about her harrowing experiences over the last year, including toxic patterns, the fallout of tough choices, and the journey to rebuild her life for herself and her kids. We dive into the ways societal pressures, childhood patterns, and personal expectations can keep us stuck—and how breaking free starts with choosing ourselves, even when it feels impossible.
Whether you’re navigating your own struggles, questioning the life you’ve built, or simply looking for hope that things can and will get better, this conversation is here to remind you that rock bottom isn’t the end—it’s the perfect place to rebuild.
Key Highlights:
- Breaking free from toxic cycles: Olivia’s personal journey of leaving an abusive relationship and the patterns that led her there.
- The power of rest: How stepping back can be the most transformative (and underrated) act of self-care.
- Rebuilding from rock bottom: Finding clarity and peace after survival mode.
- Choosing yourself: Why it’s so hard, yet so necessary, to prioritize your well-being—even when it means walking away.
- Practical takeaways: How to recognize what’s going right in your life and use it as a foundation for change.
This episode is equal parts real talk and inspiration. Tune in and learn why your hardest moments don’t define you—they create the space for something better.
Stay Connected with Olivia:
- Follow her on instagram @thelivchapman or @innerglowcircle
- Grab your FREE How to Become a Coach Workshop
Ready to find out which Goal Slayer Archetype you are? [CLICK HERE] to take the quiz, and start slaying your goals with a whole new level of clarity and confidence!
If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d so appreciate you doing a few things for me:
- Please subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen
- Rate and review the podcast on Apple podcasts
- Tag me @thebeamlife on your IG stories and I’ll be sure to share your post!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey, girl, hey.
my god.
Me too.
I'm so, so, so excited.
Mostly because I think what people would expect from two business babes is getting on themic and talking about business.
And we're so not fucking doing that today.
It is, it is, we're going to spill a little bit of tea.
(00:26):
But there is a point to spilling the tea today.
Okay, y'all.
So Liv and I kind of had this, conversation.
What was that during the retreat?
So a few months ago where we wanted to, we were both just like, just chatting about ourlives.
And when she was telling me about the year she's had, I'm like, Holy shit.
(00:54):
First of all,
It's a reminder that what we see sometimes, like online, is not what's happening behindclosed doors and how we like keep it together as business owners, as professionals,
holding it together for our clients and our family.
But internally, like the struggle is fucking real.
(01:14):
It's real.
And then I was thinking, wow, even though I had completely different circumstances,
My 2023 was also this dumpster fire of a year.
And I was like, we've got to talk about this if you're open to it.
And you were like, OK, let's do it.
(01:37):
I feel like so Barbara Walters or like Diane Sawyer.
I'm like, I get the exclusive.
You get the exclusive.
I think I was up all night last night because I was like, I couldn't sleep.
And I'm like, what am I nervous about?
What am I nervous?
And I don't feel consciously nervous to talk about this at this point.
But I think subconsciously there is part of me.
(01:58):
And it's not because I am afraid of what people have seen online and the disconnect.
Because I actually think that despite it all and trying to keep it together, I thinkpeople could tell something has been wrong.
Sure, yeah.
and they're just waiting for me to say it.
And I was actually explaining this to someone the other day and I'm like, I sound like I'mlike so like famous or something and I'm like, I'm not, but I have all of these women who
(02:24):
look at me when I feel like at this point, I'm lying.
Mmm, girl, I can so relate.
I can so relate because I will never forget it was...
maybe around April, 2023, and this girl who wanted to work with me reached out and she wasjust like, you have it all together.
(02:53):
Like everything is, how do you do it?
And literally the night before I was like crumbled in the fetal position, like holdingLincoln.
And it's not that, you know, there is a difference being able to hold space for yourclients and do all those things, but this perception of,
showing up as one way and these people perceiving and holding us to a higher standards.
(03:16):
Because after all, we are life coaches.
Should we not have our shit together?
Should we not be able to navigate this better?
So there is this inauthenticity or inauthentic disconnect a little bit.
But we have to get through it a little bit more.
And I know that you're at this place more where you're like, OK, I can talk about thethings that
(03:42):
have happened and have transpired, but not from a place of upset or disgust or even justshame.
It's more of like, if you're going through it or you had a year too, because I know you'renot the only one, everyone seems to have had a year, and we're going into a new year, how
(04:04):
can we use this conversation that you and I are having today as almost hope a little bit?
Yeah.
Well, I think you bring up a good point around like being a professional in the coachingindustry and this like inner pressure we feel to have our shit together at all times.
But the reality is I'm not responsible for that.
I'm responsible for not bringing it to my team and to my clients, but I'm not responsiblefor rushing my own timeline to make it look good on the internet.
(04:32):
And I don't know what the right timeline is.
I just know for me that I don't personally like to share
when I'm really in it with a big, because I don't actually know what's how I'm feeling.
I don't actually have a resolution to share something powerful.
And the reality is my social media is used for marketing at this point.
(04:52):
I am not marketing a message of a mess.
I am marketing the other side of the mess, which I hope this conversation shows you thatlike, no matter how bad it is, no matter like what your worst year ever looks like, it
doesn't mean that you have to be a full stop.
on every area of your life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(05:12):
So let's talk about that a little bit more because, you know, I know you now on thispersonal and professional side, but you're new to a lot of the, you know, goal slayer
listeners.
And there's, there's going to be members of our IGC community that are listening to thistoo, that know you only one side.
So you, you are a CEO, you are a mom, you are an amazing friend, you're an entrepreneur,you're ambitious.
(05:41):
So set the stage for us a little bit about how these, all these roles that you play andthen this life or this like year that you had over 2024, like just set us up a little bit
so we can really dig into the details.
Yeah, it's so interesting because I know we're going to look at this year, but this yearis a culmination of every bad decision, I would say, that I made over the last decade.
(06:08):
And while I genuinely feel like I'm a great mother, I'm a decent businesswoman, I've mademistakes there though too, so I'm not going to sit here and be like, I'm perfect.
Absolutely not.
but I feel really confident in those areas.
I feel really confident in my health.
And it's funny, I just did my like end of year mastermind call with a group that I'm amember of and we had to go through all these different areas and I'm like, so good, so
(06:33):
good.
But let me tell you what's so bad.
So bad is that I have dated and then got engaged to the same bad man in about a half adozen different bodies over the course of the last decade, okay?
I am crippled here.
And it was like every bad dating or man decision that I had made in the last decade blewup this year.
(07:00):
And I always say to God, because I'm not religious, but I have a really close relationshipwith God, I said, teach me more of my lessons through joy, please, that's my prayer.
Or give me a sign.
so me getting signs, getting signs, getting...
bigger one, bigger one, bigger one explosion.
(07:21):
It's literally like boulders being thrown at you.
is wrong with me?
And this is the part where I still haven't healed yet because I'm like, my healing now hascome from just completely not dating, not associating with men.
But it's like, I have such a soft spot for the woman I was at the very beginning of thisyear.
But at the end of the day, maybe it's my tough love raised in the 80s and 90s.
(07:46):
But it's like, what were you thinking?
How did you think this was going to go, honey?
I can really appreciate the 80s and 90s reference.
I was literally just talking to Dee about this last night, how I coddled the shit out ofmy daughter for everything.
(08:06):
And I'm like, I literally had a broken foot for a week.
And my mom was like, you're fine.
You're fine.
It was literally a week later, and my foot was the size of a bowling ball.
And she's like, maybe I should take you to the doctor.
And literally, it was broken, and I needed to cast.
so this is.
I love that you said tough love because honestly, I feel like the way we were raised inthat generation is the way we treat our inner child too, right?
(08:32):
yes, yes.
And I watched my parents stay married for 30 years, which is about 27 beyond what theyshould have been married.
And we were just raised in this place where like the people that you love hurt you, butyou forgive them and you take them back over and over.
So I had just been in this thing where I'm like so okay with abuse that it's actuallyscary.
(08:57):
Mm, mm, okay, so now I wanna know more about this situation.
You've now had this, well, okay, when did you actually realize that?
Was it this year or had you like, you kind of had this epiphany before?
was one of those things where it's built up and if you've been in a relationship with analleged narcissist or sociopath or someone with a personality disorder that's perhaps
(09:21):
undiagnosed, but I think we can all say that from we've learned a thing or two about thesethings this year or the previous.
If you have been with someone like that, it's like you're just
I think they call it cognitive dissonance where it's like this bad thing is happening toyou, but then this good thing is.
So you're confused and you're in this, that was my entire childhood.
(09:44):
So there's so much familiarity in that, but it wasn't until, and this is me dating thesame man over and over that it got to the point where I was in physical danger that I was
like, crap.
Like why did, like I pushed things too far, not.
pushed him too far, like literally put up with things for too long would be a better wayto say it.
(10:08):
And I'm like, I just remember thinking, this is how this happens.
Like I'm gonna, I'm 38 years old.
I was 37 at the time, but really, who cares?
Should have learned this before.
And I'm like feeling like a little kid.
I just, like I just remember being like, my God.
(10:32):
Yeah.
is how it gets worse.
And I couldn't tell anybody.
I couldn't tell a soul, you know, if you're having issues in a relationship.
last December, I got engaged to this man who had been pretty bad the whole time, but thenit was like Christmas Eve proposal and family.
(10:54):
like, was like, there was always part of me that knew I shouldn't have said yes to this.
And once I did,
those bad things just got significantly worse, significantly fast.
And it was like I could see my life ahead of me and I'm sitting there Googling like, howdo I know if I need to check myself into a mental institution?
(11:20):
What is wrong with me?
I'm having massive skin flare ups.
Like I will show you a photo.
Like I know you don't edit these so people can't see them, but like my whole face is likeblown up, puffy, swollen.
My back is swollen and broken out.
I'm like going to all of these doctors, I'm getting all of these tests done, they can'tfind anything, nothing's wrong with you, but you could eliminate this and you...
(11:46):
I needed to eliminate the guy.
Mmm, yep.
And it wasn't until a particular day where the arguing was just so bad.
And this was day after day though.
And I'm just standing at the top of the stairs and he's screaming over me, spitting in myface, like to the point where I like fall back down the stairs.
(12:13):
And I'm like, he would never get in trouble for this.
he would never.
And I'm like, I...
And then I'm going on a call like for work and I'm just like, this is so fucked up.
Can I say that on the podcast?
okay.
Okay.
I'm just like.
(12:33):
I could never have a podcast where you couldn't say fuck.
It was just, yeah.
you know, so that was kind of the breaking point where I was like, I have to get out ofhere.
And I needed to make a plan because I had broken up with this man multiple times beforefor lesser but still evil offenses and just would try to come back.
And Caitlin, you don't even know this.
(12:56):
In, I want to say February or March, we were leading an open house.
I had just broken up with him.
I had just broken off the engagement.
I'm supposed to get on this live open house with 100 plus registrants on it.
He shows up at my house pushing through the front door.
I have to call my neighbor to come over to get him off.
(13:18):
It was like this and then that level of intrusion and stalking went on for, I mean, wasjust telling you before this, I know it's still happening from a virtual standpoint.
yah.
to the point where I moved across the country with me and my kids to get away from him.
OK.
(13:38):
So you just dropped a lot of bombs on us.
Now, this is like one scenario, one through line that was kind of happening throughoutyour year.
So how did you like, I'm curious, like what was it that made you continue to like go backthere?
(14:00):
Like what, why did we keep?
choosing this situation in a sense of like, we know it's not good for us.
And I asked this, you know, and again, I always tell people give freedom of choice if youdon't want to answer the question.
But I think it's so helpful to understand because I was, I literally just got off acoaching call this morning where I was talking with a client about like this thermostat we
(14:23):
have, where we always go back to this like level of comfort and we'll always choose thislike unfamiliar or this
familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven type situation all the time.
So that's why I asked this question is not necessarily relationship based, like you aresmart as hell and you do know what you're doing in all of these areas of your life,
(14:50):
whether it be health, business, motherhood, et cetera.
So what is it in particular?
Cause we all have this area, whether it's relationships for us or not.
We all have this area where it's sort of like, we keep going back when we know weshouldn't.
So what have you pulled from that now that you're not quite on the other side, but you'renow removed and reflective?
(15:15):
Sure.
And I'm obviously not, or maybe not obviously, but I'm not a therapist or mental healthworker at all.
I've been to enough of them to kind of have an idea.
But I genuinely think part of it was a literal physical addiction to the ups and downs, tothe back and forth, to the fight and makeup.
(15:36):
And it is my comfort zone.
That was my entire childhood.
I have a mom with a lot of
mental illness.
I grew up with an alcoholic father.
It was like, just so chaotic.
And I would crave the peace.
(15:57):
And I would often be the peacemaker in the home, like making sure everyone stayed calm,watching my little brothers, like keeping everything okay all the time.
And then inevitable, I would get my sister and I talk about this still.
we would get nervous when shit hadn't hit the fan in a while.
Like this anticipation, like is this gonna be the day?
(16:18):
Is this gonna be the day?
And I was recreating that by being a participant in most of my relationships with men overthe last decade.
And I think that, what should we call my ex-fiance?
Dean, we'll call him Dean, that's not his name.
I think Dean was just a culmination of all of it.
(16:40):
And he allowed me to like really play that out to the point that I don't know that I wouldhave made it out of that alive.
And it was like, I don't, I had to almost be faced with death to actually be like, this isnot for me anymore.
(17:01):
And I don't know, Caitlin, if that didn't happen though, if I would really have
change that narrative for myself.
Yeah, and that's what I was going to ask you, because it's like, we all sort of have thislook back moment.
know that for my divorce student, what I really resonate deeply with in your story is notbeing able to tell anybody.
(17:30):
And we ran a business together, and shit was hitting the fan all the time.
It was really bad.
We've done a lot of work.
We've done a lot, a lot of work to get to the place where we can hopefully effectivelyco-parent, but we were not good partners.
And it was so volatile.
(17:53):
And then we'd have to show up the next day in our place of business and just pretend wewere this really happy put together couple.
And you know,
It's hard because you're then like dealing with this all on your own.
It's extremely isolating because you're also afraid because I don't know how about howyour friends are, but my friends are like, you tell them one bad thing.
(18:18):
They're like, I'm going to go kill the motherfucker.
Like.
sisters were literally like mad at me because they're like, what is going on?
like, can't I had one friend that literally knew everything because she lived next door tome and because like, and I credit her for being the reason that I was even able to go
because she saw it all.
(18:40):
Like she saw everything she saw the police car staying parked outside my house because
Every time I tried to get a restraining order, they denied it, which is a whole otherpodcast around.
But she was there and I couldn't tell anyone in my family because there was also an ounceof me even after all this that was like I must completely detox from this addiction that I
(19:03):
have before I can tell anyone because I was so afraid that like he did every other time,he would do something where I would be like,
but I love him, I wanna give him another chance because I'm so addicted to that.
Yes, God, I can so relate.
I can so relate.
(19:24):
And it's just like this thing you know so well, even though it totally is terrible, butyou hold out this hope that like, it might change.
And I really feel like he meant it this time or whatever.
then if you, I know for me, my family was pissed at me too.
(19:48):
this feels out of nowhere.
You're just getting a divorce out of nowhere.
I'm like, this is not out of nowhere.
You know, like this has been going on for so long.
I just didn't tell you because I was also like, if we stayed together, I didn't want youto hate him.
Exactly.
That's exactly, exactly it.
Like you cannot tell everyone everything.
it's very, yeah, it's very isolating.
(20:10):
I've, and I really do feel like I don't like to say, like give myself too many labelsbecause, you know, God forbid I latch onto something else destructive in my life.
But I felt like a bit of like an imposter and a fraud.
And I felt like
I was actually really good at giving people advice, but I wasn't taking any of it formyself.
(20:37):
And I was pretending that everything was fine, publicly, but also at home, like in frontof my own kids to the point where it was like, my God, there were just so many moments
when I'm like, I don't want my kids to be like this man.
what are they gonna see here?
This is horrible.
(20:58):
Yeah.
And you have boys.
I have a girl.
So it's important for different reasons, right?
Like different roles.
Like you don't want your boys growing up thinking that's the way that it's acceptable totreat women and to have women feel.
And I don't want my young girl to think this is how you should feel in a relationship oryou should be treated.
(21:22):
And that was.
I've shared this so many times that I was so scared shitless to like pull the plug and dothe actual thing.
But the biggest thing for me was like, if my daughter came to me and told me the wholething, right?
Like told the whole story, just like if your boys were to come to you at 37 and tell youthis same situation, you're not gonna be like, stay, stay.
(21:47):
no, and the crazy thing is I think I could have, I could have handled it, but I couldn'thave handled the thought of like me dying.
I hate to sound so dramatic, but there's just so many elements of like the power that thisguy had, the intelligence that he had, like the secret evilness of things that I didn't
(22:08):
even know he was doing until I got out of it that I'm like, I wouldn't take death off thetable by any means.
And then I thought of my kids,
not having me and I'm like, like even now, like don't even drive at night, not because I'mdrinking, but like I'm just need like I want, I can't die.
Like they don't have anybody else.
And like I don't, I want to be there for them.
(22:30):
But that's like, you're right.
Like I did it for them.
I'm like, I feel like I could have handled the abuse.
I could have figured it out.
I could have made it work, but I couldn't have dealt with the impact that it had on them.
Yeah, and I think that if you're listening and you're either in this situation right nowor you can relate, sometimes when the situation feels bigger than you, it's helpful to
(22:56):
think about someone you deeply love, whether it's your kids, your best friend, a sibling,whoever it might be.
And can you use them in the moment where you might not be strong enough to chooseyourself?
And so I also.
before we like, because I don't want to skip this like moment, right?
(23:17):
You had this, this literally like almost dying experience.
Was that the thing that sort of said I need to choose me or was it like after or how, whatwas it and what did that look like?
Not only what was it, but it's not just like one thing typically it's a series of things,but
(23:41):
we have to start knocking over dominoes if we want things to change.
So like, okay, you had this moment, but you've had other similar moments, maybe not asintense.
What was it about this one at that time that you were like, okay, I'm done.
Again, I think it is a million little things, but I will say one of them was my physicalhealth.
(24:07):
Like it was so bad.
was just, this is gonna sound vain, but like my skin was so bad, couldn't record, Icouldn't work.
Like it was so inflamed.
couldn't, my eyes were watering all day long.
Like I couldn't do normal daily activities because my.
like your body was just like literally fighting you?
(24:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is so crazy.
I'm also not surprised, but that's so wild.
I had such bad breakouts on my back that I couldn't sleep.
It hurt.
I couldn't touch my face.
It hurt.
It was just covered and inflamed.
I guess some later worse form of rosacea, which is what, of course, they diagnosed mewith, is constant watery eyes.
(24:55):
I was crying all day, but not crying, just like my eyes were crying.
It was almost like...
And then when the medicine isn't working and the dermatologist isn't working, it's like Igo to my Louise Hay book, How to Heal Your Life, and I'm like, something's got to give.
And it's like, I knew this was happening.
And then at the same time, things are falling apart with my kid's dad.
(25:22):
So this is the other thing that's happening where we'd had, you know, good co-parenting50-50 relationship for years.
And now he's just
finding himself and he doesn't have a job anymore and he's exploring the world and leavingthe kids with me more, which thank God, and doesn't have a house anymore.
(25:43):
And I'm like, what?
This happened the same weekend that I broke off the engagement.
And then the funniest thing, this is when I said, okay, God, I have heard you loud andclear.
The very next day, I'm paranoid.
I'm in my garage working out and
I hear a bang on my garage.
(26:03):
So immediately I think it's my ex here to kill me.
Yeah.
It's some, I look on the ring camera at some, a process server serving me papers to go bea witness in a custody battle from a guy I had dated five years ago.
(26:24):
Like when I first broke up with my kid's dad and I'm like, what?
Called by his ex-wife to be a witness in this.
And I'm like, if this, everything was just happening at once.
And I'm like,
Enough is enough.
And I didn't, this all took a few months to figure out what I was gonna do next, but I waslike, I have got to get out of here.
(26:51):
I know that wherever you go, there you are, but sometimes when things are really bad, youdo have to just run, go.
I can't help but think of, I think it was like an Oprah Super Soul Sunday or somethingwhere she talks about like the universe is whisper, God's whisper.
(27:11):
And it's like the universe will send you first your messages in a whisper.
And they are gentle.
And they are light.
And then it gets a little like more like a, you know, like you're being like, you know,parented.
So it's a little more strict, a little more intense.
Then it becomes a shout.
(27:32):
And then it's just like a baseball bat to the fucking head.
Like, hello, Ari.
So these, this was your baseball bat.
Yes.
This was your baseball bat moment.
bat moment.
it did like then, you you get to the peak, right?
And you're like fired up, like I'm changing my life.
But then you kind of settle back in.
But the universe then started continuing or God started continuing where it was like thisthing is happening.
(27:56):
And they weren't tragic or anything.
But I'm like, you know, just between the stalking and
the feeling of unsafety all the time.
no one, the weird thing is too, like no one really believed me.
Like even in my family, like I don't think they understood the depth and the quantity ofharassment I was receiving on a daily basis.
(28:27):
Like there were packages being delivered every day.
There were handwritten letters, there were hundreds.
and hundreds of emails, text messages, calls from different phones, messages on WhatsApp.
He tried to join an IGC Zoom meeting once.
don't even, like it was all angles, all the time, showing up to my church.
(28:52):
I don't know how he was finding me.
I literally don't.
The cops tried to find some type of tracking device on my car.
Like it just went on.
There was something every day for months.
And I just remember it was Easter, I think, when he showed up at church and I was with mykids and I saw him and he approached me at the church, like in front of everyone.
(29:15):
And I was like shaking and scared.
And I brought the kids over to their dads after that because I was like, didn't feel safehaving them.
And I'm like, this is so...
fucked up.
Like I can't even go to church with my kids on Easter.
I can't bring them home because I'm afraid and
(29:44):
I would eventually tell the stories to some people and they're like, I had no idea.
I think they were like, you didn't have to move and this and that.
I'm like, unless you're faced with that every single day, day in and day out, it is soscary being home alone.
(30:09):
and not being able to sleep and then you start, you do start losing your mind after monthswith no sleep.
I mean, if you've had a kid, you already know that.
Yeah, so.
I'm so sorry, number one, that that was going on.
I think that specifically what really hit me while you were talking is that not beingbelieved.
(30:32):
I think that's two things.
One, you're an attractive person that puts yourself out there on the internet.
So society says to women, you deserve it.
In a sense, you're asking for it.
You want the attention.
Yeah.
there's a societal factor to that.
And then there is like this part where I think you and I are very similar and a lot oflisteners on this podcast are really similar.
(30:58):
We're considered the strong one, right?
We're the one that people lean on.
I mean, we're coaches.
Of course they do, right?
It's like we are the people call for advice.
we're the rock, we're the ones that's like solid.
So we have in some way done ourself this disservice where like people just think, well,yeah, even if shit's hard, she's gonna get through it.
(31:24):
She'll figure it out.
Like it can't, yeah, yeah.
he wouldn't even come.
And like, this is just more of how I was raised, you know, and they took tough loveclearly to another level.
And it is what it is.
I accept him for who he is.
But that is exactly his response.
Like, you'll figure it out.
Just get a dog or something.
(31:45):
Yeah.
And so know that number one, like if you are feeling that way, first of all, find yourpeople, find your tribe.
And no, yeah.
door even better, but yeah.
lean in, lean in hard because the next phase, I will say that we're going to talk about,right?
(32:06):
So we have like the, you know, pre how did we get here kind of situation.
We then have this time where we say enough is enough.
And then we have to face like what is actually starting over look like, because to me, Idon't know about you.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts in my divorce process.
(32:28):
That was the hardest part.
I felt like, well, now I have nobody to blame my shit on.
It's me.
And I don't even really know who I am right now, what I want, which is, hey, how I cameinto IGC.
What's up?
So it all has a great story.
(32:50):
But what did that look like for you?
mean, you're at this point now where it's like, OK.
I have to do this thing.
Yeah, I think because of like moving into a secure, like very secure building, like Ididn't even want to live in a freestanding house, like I had to be in a secure building.
(33:11):
Because I had that element of safety and could sleep through the night, I actually feltbetter than ever.
But when you get out of survival mode, and you actually have some spaciousness, and you'renot
spending so much energy trying to manage an abusive relationship, which we cannot discountthe distraction I allow myself by doing that for.
(33:35):
I'm just like, what's going to happen with IGC now that I'm out of these badrelationships?
Like, sky's the limit, everybody.
If we could build this with me in the trenches, imagine when I'm out of them.
Buckle up, okay?
And hopefully that's a reminder for you too, because if you look at your life and you'velike raised a child or had a good income,
or gotten out, imagine, and I think my neighbor said this to me, she said, imagine if youdidn't have to spend this much time dealing with this man.
(34:04):
You have so much more energy now.
So the first thing I did was rest.
I'm not even kidding.
I have been resting.
I'm just getting out of the resting a little bit, but coming back, going back, but I neversaw my parents rest ever, ever.
I never saw that and I...
that's a whole different thing like examining their relationship and how it shows uptoday.
(34:29):
But I was like, I'm so tired.
So when we got here and I had my kids in this little like sanctuary safe space apartment,they're right there.
I don't have to switch them off to their dad.
I don't have to worry where their stuff is.
Everything's here.
We downsized so much, got rid of so much.
(34:49):
And we just kind of started over from the simplicity place where
I didn't have to go, well, I didn't ever mow the lawn at my house either, but I didn'thave to go fix something outside.
I didn't have to go and clean out the garage.
There was nothing.
And so I had no excuse now.
I didn't know anybody here.
Where I moved, I know literally one or two people.
(35:11):
I didn't have an excuse, so I've been resting a lot.
And to your other point, Kaitlyn, around figuring out who you are, that is legitimately
something I've been working on through a lot of different like books and writing andjournaling, but not excessive.
I'm not like a big morning routine, right?
I wish I was everyone, but if you're just like jotting things down and recording notes toyourself, that counts too.
(35:34):
Yeah.
Okay.
And I'm like, I'm really trying to, I know what my values are, but where I've gotten lostin the past is that I've been so obsessed with finding love.
and being happily married and yes, I want to have another baby.
So I, and yes, I'm getting too old for that, but we're just going to keep rocking with it.
(35:56):
You didn't know that?
No, I did not know that.
That's the biggest tea I've heard all day.
my dream, my dream.
OMG, I think you are insane.
That is wild.
Wild.
Good for you.
Someone has to do it.
Yes.
know, when my oldest son was born, he'll be 10 this year, I was just getting started inbusiness.
(36:20):
We were poor and like, you know, we had just quit our jobs and we were in our 20s andlike, was just different.
And then when my second son was born was when I found out their dad was like cheating, butI couldn't leave because I wasn't prepared with a newborn and a toddler.
And like, I just never, I really want
a different experience.
(36:41):
And I love being pregnant and I still think there's a daughter in the ethers for me.
anyway, but I can't, have wanted to, there've been so many moments of weakness and I knowI can just go out or like get on the dating apps and like find somebody and my God, I have
wanted to just, just take him, like it'll be good enough.
(37:03):
And I can't.
And so a lot of the work is like,
instead of choosing from, because I can really gaslight myself and be like, you know, loveis one of your values and Olivia, that is not love.
You know what I'm saying?
So really looking at what your values look like in terms of decision making.
that's so good.
(37:24):
That's my work this year, slowing down and making decisions based on my real values, notlike a rushed quick fix.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm like letting that soak in for a second because that really, really hits home for me ina different way with everything I went through with my daughter this year and her recent
(37:52):
like diagnosis.
But what I'm thinking about specifically is when our body is in that complete state ofsurvival, whatever your heart is, it's like, what does it look like when we downshift?
and rest.
And I think that's the biggest thing that you shared is like, rest, like real rest, giveyourself permission to rest and not settling for, and, and I catch myself doing this in
(38:20):
business too, where it's like, that partnership is good enough.
Or even like at the beginning of my business, I would work with anyone that wanted to workwith me.
Cause I was like, I'll just, I need a client.
I'll take them.
They're good enough.
but when you rest,
and get still for a second.
That's the only time, in my opinion.
(38:41):
Maybe somebody else out there has a different thought.
It's really one of the only ways to be able to use that intuitive gift we've all beengiven to discern.
We cannot have discernment when we're in survival.
It's impossible.
And we'll just literally take anything because we're fine.
(39:02):
Yeah.
I can't even make a decision right now and you look good enough for me.
Whether that's literally love, business, career, health, all the things.
so this is your permission slip to rest everybody.
and also like, yeah, tell me.
think people often too have this like glorified version of what rest is.
(39:27):
And I just have, I don't have that.
Like I have my kids a hundred percent of the time, all the time now.
I have taken, I'm weaning them out of public school, to be honest.
Like I'd have them out of aftercare.
They come home right after.
I'm doing everything I can to figure out a way to make both of our lives work andhomeschool them in some capacity.
So like,
(39:48):
I don't have time for that.
Like I'm not out at a spa is what I'm saying.
I'm not out getting a massage.
I'm not out getting, I have to go get my nails done.
Don't look.
But that's just maintenance at this point.
That's about the, everyone's saying that the woman I was with yesterday at a field tripsaid that.
And I'm like, I really am thinking about that.
But my rest is like, the only thing I don't really consider rest is scrolling on my phonebecause that's a little bit like not restful.
(40:14):
But I do consider it laying in bed and just like laying there.
Like maybe I'm not sleeping.
I consider it watching shows that don't create, don't require a lot of energy too.
That is one thing.
I never, I always felt guilty watching TV, especially in the self-help world.
People are like, it's such an energy drain.
Don't watch TV, just read and meditate and write.
(40:35):
And I'm like, no.
Sometimes resting is just watching a show.
Or my other form of rest is walking, just walking, walking around town, listening to apodcast.
That is so rejuvenating to me.
But I can't tell you the last time I spent a day at a spa or went to a massage or got afacial.
(40:57):
I'm afraid to put anything on my face after this year, let's be honest.
it's not like that.
It's literally just laying around.
It's teaching your kids what a rot day is.
I've taught them that.
Yes.
And I'm like, you guys can go play on your PS5.
You can go do what you need to do.
But we're going to be quiet.
(41:17):
and we're not gonna make mommy a mess and like whatever else go.
So I just wanna stay that too because I think sometimes people have this like, yo, youhave to plan it all out.
Actually not having a plan and realizing I haven't driven my car in three days.
That's a win.
That's a win.
And people will confuse it with depression and I can tell you it wasn't for me.
(41:39):
My sister all the time, are you sure you're okay?
You haven't gone out, you haven't like done.
I'm like, I am better than okay.
I can't believe it.
And I'm not just saying that.
I genuinely feel so peaceful.
Move yourself to a city where no one knows you.
Ain't nobody gonna ask you for shit.
I'm just like...
(42:00):
You're like, OK, if I had known this, I would have done it a long time ago, right?
I mean,
love community and I love family and I love being of service to people.
I'm not sure what that's going to look like in this next version of myself beyond work andmy kids right now.
But this is this is the place that I'm in right now.
And I don't think if I I got to this place, I would have been back in the cycle of abusebecause I would have needed something to fill the time because for whatever reason, giving
(42:29):
it to myself to do nothing was just not something I was brought up knowing was OK.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for breaking that down because that is, I would say, one of the biggest, again,disconnects when people look at maybe our social media or things like that or think, we
(42:50):
make a high income.
And yes, we do have certain privileges, certainly.
But also, rest, again, does not mean this very bougie.
of massages and spas and like having to have sitters for your kids so you can takethree-day luxury solo vacations and retreats.
Those are all nice things that if they come up, great, cool, I'm game.
(43:14):
But resting can be something as simple as like not getting out of the sweats for two days.
And yeah, yeah.
funny.
I don't mean it like that.
I literally meant lay down.
my God.
Maybe we'll get to that in 2025.
okay okay yeah let's put that out there for 2025.
like, my kids will be like, what are you doing?
(43:35):
And I'm like, I'm just laying, I'm laying.
God, that's funny.
But whatever, a good lay actually sounds rejuvenating too.
you know, just gonna keep talking about her.
So I've got one you can borrow.
Don't worry.
So yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm dying.
(43:55):
So OK.
We've talked about so many things.
And I'm so happy we've had this conversation because, in my opinion,
I wish I had had this conversation when I was going through my darkest hours and days.
Because again, yes, we talked about relationship, but insert whatever.
(44:16):
Insert whatever it might be for you.
And it might have been a series of things like it was for the two of us.
But now that I am two years post, you're kind of at the end of your year, if you will.
It's easier, still not easy, but it's easier to say, this doesn't, that year doesn'tdefine my life.
(44:42):
It was a year.
But when we're in it, it's harder to have that reflection and to say that.
like, if you had to sum up some like really good lessons, if you will, like not to becheesy, but like to leave people with just a little something, if they are finishing this
year in the thick of it, like what are.
(45:03):
What are some good things to leave them with?
Yeah, well, think that number one is like rock bottom is the perfect place to start.
I unfortunately, I would say yes, I would say I don't like it, but clearly history showsthat I love it.
I might be addicted to it.
I'm hoping that I've really learned this time.
(45:25):
But there, I think that when God takes away everything from you, it is not because hedoesn't want you to have everything that you want.
It's because
it goes back to like this or something better.
That is what I have been telling myself over and over.
I'm about to get it tattooed on my hand too.
(45:45):
But like, if we genuinely believe that life is good or it can be good, then we can't staystuck.
And if you don't have that belief yet, that's where you start, like looking for signs ofit.
I did this journal.
years ago, and I say journal loosely, it was probably post-it scattered around, it waswhatever piece of paper I could find, okay?
(46:13):
But I hated my life so much when I was in my teaching job, and my coach at the time,Katie, had said to me, can you just try to like write down a few things every day that are
like going okay for you, maybe not great.
But that simple practice of really recognizing the good, which I feel like is such a basickind of like coaching practice or self-help practice,
(46:35):
But you all, I am not saying go climb a mountain and find yourself at the top.
I'm type with your fingers or write with a pen.
You have to understand these are literal tasks that will take you two minutes and have thepower to change everything.
So don't skip out if you're like, I don't have time for that.
No one has time for anything.
(46:59):
We don't, we don't.
So whether it's rock bottom or nearing there or
I mean, if you're in one of these abusive type relationships too, I really do have torecommend this podcast.
It's called The Game.
my God, and of course I'm gonna recommend it, but I'll be able to remember.
The Game Exposed.
I'm not even kidding.
When it comes to getting out of the cycle of abuse, that podcast, I mean, my kids startedbeing like, what's narcissism?
(47:26):
What's a covert narcissist?
And then they know.
and they're like, is psychological abuse when you hurt someone's brain?
So yes, they overheard some of this, I was really like, the more I listened to that andhow medical it kind of was and how scientific it was, I was like, it shifted something
(47:47):
within me where I'm like,
No, this is literally a condition that I cannot change.
You cannot go in and fix this person and make them love you more if you like get prettieror make more money or make them more food, da da da da.
That part, I just listen to it every day.
There's like a hundred million episodes.
Every, this might not be healthy and again, I'm not a therapist, but that really helped meto just see how black and white this really was and how hopeless this relationship was.
(48:17):
because I needed to drain all good and all hope out of it so that I would never go back.
Mmm, so good.
So, so, so, so good.
And do I have any other helpful takeaways?
I don't know.
mean, it's just if you're still breathing, if you're still waking up, there's there'shope.
And I am really saying this from feeling like there wasn't most of this year.
(48:42):
It wasn't until August, probably the end of August, because right when we did move, I washaving so many the kids were unhappy.
Like there was that whole thing of like dealing with them and taking them away from theirlife.
So maybe it was closer to September where I was finally like, I think I can do this.
But what I would say is a year, call it a year, nine months to a year, like you're livinganyway.
(49:09):
You're here anyway.
So, you know, there's hope.
Yeah.
what you will.
And I do think that it's a really good reminder of focusing on, it's big in my communitywhere I always ask the question, what's going right in your life today?
(49:31):
And there's always one thing.
I promise you.
I promise you.
So I feel like that's a really good note to end on.
And I always encourage listeners, if you've gotten this far,
which I hope you have because there was some really good juicy nuggets.
DM us.
DM us and tell us what's going right in your world today.
(49:51):
I would love to, as always, hear from you.
And it's a great way just to have this exterior check-in.
And I know Liv's an open book, just like I am.
And we also have a great community in the coaching world of people who
can guide people through this and be a support system, find a community.
(50:13):
So for people listening who want to be able to connect with you, watch your journey.
Because 2025, the world better buckle up.
Watch out.
Where can people connect with you and find you?
Yeah, thank you for that.
So I'm most active on Instagram at TheLiveChapman.
If you're looking for coaching or anything like that, we're on every social media at InnerGlow Circle everywhere.
(50:38):
But I would say even if you want to access all that, just connect with me on Instagram.
I will say this because someone said this to me in a podcast that I listened to, like alittle celebrity said, like, if you're dealing with an abusive relationship and you need
someone to
be validated by DM me and I actually did when I was going through this and she replied andit made a lot of difference.
(50:59):
so again, I'm not an expert at any of it, but if you're going through something similar,like my inbox is open and I am happy to share everything I know around getting out of that
because if you have been able to even know Caitlin, you know Caitlin and you're aroundher.
So you've done something with your life.
(51:19):
So imagine if you were out of something abusive and you had Caitlin or and you hadeverything you've created.
Like that's what keeps me going.
I'm like, holy crap.
Like imagine what's next.
We can do life under that much pressure.
Imagine what we can do when we're at peace.
(51:40):
Such a good way to end it.
Thank you so much for letting me have my Barbara Walters moment and have this really funconversation.
I think it's so refreshing and important for the end of this year.
And I just love and adore you and respect you and appreciate you.
So thanks, girl.
This was fabulous.
Thank you.
Hey, girl, hey.
my god.
Me too.
I'm so, so, so excited.
Mostly because I think what people would expect from two business babes is getting on themic and talking about business.
And we're so not fucking doing that today.
It is, it is, we're going to spill a little bit of tea.
(00:26):
But there is a point to spilling the tea today.
Okay, y'all.
So Liv and I kind of had this, conversation.
What was that during the retreat?
So a few months ago where we wanted to, we were both just like, just chatting about ourlives.
And when she was telling me about the year she's had, I'm like, Holy shit.
(00:54):
First of all,
It's a reminder that what we see sometimes, like online, is not what's happening behindclosed doors and how we like keep it together as business owners, as professionals,
holding it together for our clients and our family.
But internally, like the struggle is fucking real.
(01:14):
It's real.
And then I was thinking, wow, even though I had completely different circumstances,
My 2023 was also this dumpster fire of a year.
And I was like, we've got to talk about this if you're open to it.
And you were like, OK, let's do it.
(01:37):
I feel like so Barbara Walters or like Diane Sawyer.
I'm like, I get the exclusive.
You get the exclusive.
I think I was up all night last night because I was like, I couldn't sleep.
And I'm like, what am I nervous about?
What am I nervous?
And I don't feel consciously nervous to talk about this at this point.
But I think subconsciously there is part of me.
(01:58):
And it's not because I am afraid of what people have seen online and the disconnect.
Because I actually think that despite it all and trying to keep it together, I thinkpeople could tell something has been wrong.
Sure, yeah.
and they're just waiting for me to say it.
And I was actually explaining this to someone the other day and I'm like, I sound like I'mlike so like famous or something and I'm like, I'm not, but I have all of these women who
(02:24):
look at me when I feel like at this point, I'm lying.
Mmm, girl, I can so relate.
I can so relate because I will never forget it was...
maybe around April, 2023, and this girl who wanted to work with me reached out and she wasjust like, you have it all together.
(02:53):
Like everything is, how do you do it?
And literally the night before I was like crumbled in the fetal position, like holdingLincoln.
And it's not that, you know, there is a difference being able to hold space for yourclients and do all those things, but this perception of,
showing up as one way and these people perceiving and holding us to a higher standards.
(03:16):
Because after all, we are life coaches.
Should we not have our shit together?
Should we not be able to navigate this better?
So there is this inauthenticity or inauthentic disconnect a little bit.
But we have to get through it a little bit more.
And I know that you're at this place more where you're like, OK, I can talk about thethings that
(03:42):
have happened and have transpired, but not from a place of upset or disgust or even justshame.
It's more of like, if you're going through it or you had a year too, because I know you'renot the only one, everyone seems to have had a year, and we're going into a new year, how
(04:04):
can we use this conversation that you and I are having today as almost hope a little bit?
Yeah.
Well, I think you bring up a good point around like being a professional in the coachingindustry and this like inner pressure we feel to have our shit together at all times.
But the reality is I'm not responsible for that.
I'm responsible for not bringing it to my team and to my clients, but I'm not responsiblefor rushing my own timeline to make it look good on the internet.
(04:32):
And I don't know what the right timeline is.
I just know for me that I don't personally like to share
when I'm really in it with a big, because I don't actually know what's how I'm feeling.
I don't actually have a resolution to share something powerful.
And the reality is my social media is used for marketing at this point.
(04:52):
I am not marketing a message of a mess.
I am marketing the other side of the mess, which I hope this conversation shows you thatlike, no matter how bad it is, no matter like what your worst year ever looks like, it
doesn't mean that you have to be a full stop.
on every area of your life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(05:12):
So let's talk about that a little bit more because, you know, I know you now on thispersonal and professional side, but you're new to a lot of the, you know, goal slayer
listeners.
And there's, there's going to be members of our IGC community that are listening to thistoo, that know you only one side.
So you, you are a CEO, you are a mom, you are an amazing friend, you're an entrepreneur,you're ambitious.
(05:41):
So set the stage for us a little bit about how these, all these roles that you play andthen this life or this like year that you had over 2024, like just set us up a little bit
so we can really dig into the details.
Yeah, it's so interesting because I know we're going to look at this year, but this yearis a culmination of every bad decision, I would say, that I made over the last decade.
(06:08):
And while I genuinely feel like I'm a great mother, I'm a decent businesswoman, I've mademistakes there though too, so I'm not going to sit here and be like, I'm perfect.
Absolutely not.
but I feel really confident in those areas.
I feel really confident in my health.
And it's funny, I just did my like end of year mastermind call with a group that I'm amember of and we had to go through all these different areas and I'm like, so good, so
(06:33):
good.
But let me tell you what's so bad.
So bad is that I have dated and then got engaged to the same bad man in about a half adozen different bodies over the course of the last decade, okay?
I am crippled here.
And it was like every bad dating or man decision that I had made in the last decade blewup this year.
(07:00):
And I always say to God, because I'm not religious, but I have a really close relationshipwith God, I said, teach me more of my lessons through joy, please, that's my prayer.
Or give me a sign.
so me getting signs, getting signs, getting...
bigger one, bigger one, bigger one explosion.
(07:21):
It's literally like boulders being thrown at you.
is wrong with me?
And this is the part where I still haven't healed yet because I'm like, my healing now hascome from just completely not dating, not associating with men.
But it's like, I have such a soft spot for the woman I was at the very beginning of thisyear.
But at the end of the day, maybe it's my tough love raised in the 80s and 90s.
(07:46):
But it's like, what were you thinking?
How did you think this was going to go, honey?
I can really appreciate the 80s and 90s reference.
I was literally just talking to Dee about this last night, how I coddled the shit out ofmy daughter for everything.
(08:06):
And I'm like, I literally had a broken foot for a week.
And my mom was like, you're fine.
You're fine.
It was literally a week later, and my foot was the size of a bowling ball.
And she's like, maybe I should take you to the doctor.
And literally, it was broken, and I needed to cast.
so this is.
I love that you said tough love because honestly, I feel like the way we were raised inthat generation is the way we treat our inner child too, right?
(08:32):
yes, yes.
And I watched my parents stay married for 30 years, which is about 27 beyond what theyshould have been married.
And we were just raised in this place where like the people that you love hurt you, butyou forgive them and you take them back over and over.
So I had just been in this thing where I'm like so okay with abuse that it's actuallyscary.
(08:57):
Mm, mm, okay, so now I wanna know more about this situation.
You've now had this, well, okay, when did you actually realize that?
Was it this year or had you like, you kind of had this epiphany before?
was one of those things where it's built up and if you've been in a relationship with analleged narcissist or sociopath or someone with a personality disorder that's perhaps
(09:21):
undiagnosed, but I think we can all say that from we've learned a thing or two about thesethings this year or the previous.
If you have been with someone like that, it's like you're just
I think they call it cognitive dissonance where it's like this bad thing is happening toyou, but then this good thing is.
So you're confused and you're in this, that was my entire childhood.
(09:44):
So there's so much familiarity in that, but it wasn't until, and this is me dating thesame man over and over that it got to the point where I was in physical danger that I was
like, crap.
Like why did, like I pushed things too far, not.
pushed him too far, like literally put up with things for too long would be a better wayto say it.
(10:08):
And I'm like, I just remember thinking, this is how this happens.
Like I'm gonna, I'm 38 years old.
I was 37 at the time, but really, who cares?
Should have learned this before.
And I'm like feeling like a little kid.
I just, like I just remember being like, my God.
(10:32):
Yeah.
is how it gets worse.
And I couldn't tell anybody.
I couldn't tell a soul, you know, if you're having issues in a relationship.
last December, I got engaged to this man who had been pretty bad the whole time, but thenit was like Christmas Eve proposal and family.
(10:54):
like, was like, there was always part of me that knew I shouldn't have said yes to this.
And once I did,
those bad things just got significantly worse, significantly fast.
And it was like I could see my life ahead of me and I'm sitting there Googling like, howdo I know if I need to check myself into a mental institution?
(11:20):
What is wrong with me?
I'm having massive skin flare ups.
Like I will show you a photo.
Like I know you don't edit these so people can't see them, but like my whole face is likeblown up, puffy, swollen.
My back is swollen and broken out.
I'm like going to all of these doctors, I'm getting all of these tests done, they can'tfind anything, nothing's wrong with you, but you could eliminate this and you...
(11:46):
I needed to eliminate the guy.
Mmm, yep.
And it wasn't until a particular day where the arguing was just so bad.
And this was day after day though.
And I'm just standing at the top of the stairs and he's screaming over me, spitting in myface, like to the point where I like fall back down the stairs.
(12:13):
And I'm like, he would never get in trouble for this.
he would never.
And I'm like, I...
And then I'm going on a call like for work and I'm just like, this is so fucked up.
Can I say that on the podcast?
okay.
Okay.
I'm just like.
(12:33):
I could never have a podcast where you couldn't say fuck.
It was just, yeah.
you know, so that was kind of the breaking point where I was like, I have to get out ofhere.
And I needed to make a plan because I had broken up with this man multiple times beforefor lesser but still evil offenses and just would try to come back.
And Caitlin, you don't even know this.
(12:56):
In, I want to say February or March, we were leading an open house.
I had just broken up with him.
I had just broken off the engagement.
I'm supposed to get on this live open house with 100 plus registrants on it.
He shows up at my house pushing through the front door.
I have to call my neighbor to come over to get him off.
(13:18):
It was like this and then that level of intrusion and stalking went on for, I mean, wasjust telling you before this, I know it's still happening from a virtual standpoint.
yah.
to the point where I moved across the country with me and my kids to get away from him.
OK.
(13:38):
So you just dropped a lot of bombs on us.
Now, this is like one scenario, one through line that was kind of happening throughoutyour year.
So how did you like, I'm curious, like what was it that made you continue to like go backthere?
(14:00):
Like what, why did we keep?
choosing this situation in a sense of like, we know it's not good for us.
And I asked this, you know, and again, I always tell people give freedom of choice if youdon't want to answer the question.
But I think it's so helpful to understand because I was, I literally just got off acoaching call this morning where I was talking with a client about like this thermostat we
(14:23):
have, where we always go back to this like level of comfort and we'll always choose thislike unfamiliar or this
familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven type situation all the time.
So that's why I asked this question is not necessarily relationship based, like you aresmart as hell and you do know what you're doing in all of these areas of your life,
(14:50):
whether it be health, business, motherhood, et cetera.
So what is it in particular?
Cause we all have this area, whether it's relationships for us or not.
We all have this area where it's sort of like, we keep going back when we know weshouldn't.
So what have you pulled from that now that you're not quite on the other side, but you'renow removed and reflective?
(15:15):
Sure.
And I'm obviously not, or maybe not obviously, but I'm not a therapist or mental healthworker at all.
I've been to enough of them to kind of have an idea.
But I genuinely think part of it was a literal physical addiction to the ups and downs, tothe back and forth, to the fight and makeup.
(15:36):
And it is my comfort zone.
That was my entire childhood.
I have a mom with a lot of
mental illness.
I grew up with an alcoholic father.
It was like, just so chaotic.
And I would crave the peace.
(15:57):
And I would often be the peacemaker in the home, like making sure everyone stayed calm,watching my little brothers, like keeping everything okay all the time.
And then inevitable, I would get my sister and I talk about this still.
we would get nervous when shit hadn't hit the fan in a while.
Like this anticipation, like is this gonna be the day?
(16:18):
Is this gonna be the day?
And I was recreating that by being a participant in most of my relationships with men overthe last decade.
And I think that, what should we call my ex-fiance?
Dean, we'll call him Dean, that's not his name.
I think Dean was just a culmination of all of it.
(16:40):
And he allowed me to like really play that out to the point that I don't know that I wouldhave made it out of that alive.
And it was like, I don't, I had to almost be faced with death to actually be like, this isnot for me anymore.
(17:01):
And I don't know, Caitlin, if that didn't happen though, if I would really have
change that narrative for myself.
Yeah, and that's what I was going to ask you, because it's like, we all sort of have thislook back moment.
know that for my divorce student, what I really resonate deeply with in your story is notbeing able to tell anybody.
(17:30):
And we ran a business together, and shit was hitting the fan all the time.
It was really bad.
We've done a lot of work.
We've done a lot, a lot of work to get to the place where we can hopefully effectivelyco-parent, but we were not good partners.
And it was so volatile.
(17:53):
And then we'd have to show up the next day in our place of business and just pretend wewere this really happy put together couple.
And you know,
It's hard because you're then like dealing with this all on your own.
It's extremely isolating because you're also afraid because I don't know how about howyour friends are, but my friends are like, you tell them one bad thing.
(18:18):
They're like, I'm going to go kill the motherfucker.
Like.
sisters were literally like mad at me because they're like, what is going on?
like, can't I had one friend that literally knew everything because she lived next door tome and because like, and I credit her for being the reason that I was even able to go
because she saw it all.
(18:40):
Like she saw everything she saw the police car staying parked outside my house because
Every time I tried to get a restraining order, they denied it, which is a whole otherpodcast around.
But she was there and I couldn't tell anyone in my family because there was also an ounceof me even after all this that was like I must completely detox from this addiction that I
(19:03):
have before I can tell anyone because I was so afraid that like he did every other time,he would do something where I would be like,
but I love him, I wanna give him another chance because I'm so addicted to that.
Yes, God, I can so relate.
I can so relate.
(19:24):
And it's just like this thing you know so well, even though it totally is terrible, butyou hold out this hope that like, it might change.
And I really feel like he meant it this time or whatever.
then if you, I know for me, my family was pissed at me too.
(19:48):
this feels out of nowhere.
You're just getting a divorce out of nowhere.
I'm like, this is not out of nowhere.
You know, like this has been going on for so long.
I just didn't tell you because I was also like, if we stayed together, I didn't want youto hate him.
Exactly.
That's exactly, exactly it.
Like you cannot tell everyone everything.
it's very, yeah, it's very isolating.
(20:10):
I've, and I really do feel like I don't like to say, like give myself too many labelsbecause, you know, God forbid I latch onto something else destructive in my life.
But I felt like a bit of like an imposter and a fraud.
And I felt like
I was actually really good at giving people advice, but I wasn't taking any of it formyself.
(20:37):
And I was pretending that everything was fine, publicly, but also at home, like in frontof my own kids to the point where it was like, my God, there were just so many moments
when I'm like, I don't want my kids to be like this man.
what are they gonna see here?
This is horrible.
(20:58):
Yeah.
And you have boys.
I have a girl.
So it's important for different reasons, right?
Like different roles.
Like you don't want your boys growing up thinking that's the way that it's acceptable totreat women and to have women feel.
And I don't want my young girl to think this is how you should feel in a relationship oryou should be treated.
(21:22):
And that was.
I've shared this so many times that I was so scared shitless to like pull the plug and dothe actual thing.
But the biggest thing for me was like, if my daughter came to me and told me the wholething, right?
Like told the whole story, just like if your boys were to come to you at 37 and tell youthis same situation, you're not gonna be like, stay, stay.
(21:47):
no, and the crazy thing is I think I could have, I could have handled it, but I couldn'thave handled the thought of like me dying.
I hate to sound so dramatic, but there's just so many elements of like the power that thisguy had, the intelligence that he had, like the secret evilness of things that I didn't
(22:08):
even know he was doing until I got out of it that I'm like, I wouldn't take death off thetable by any means.
And then I thought of my kids,
not having me and I'm like, like even now, like don't even drive at night, not because I'mdrinking, but like I'm just need like I want, I can't die.
Like they don't have anybody else.
And like I don't, I want to be there for them.
(22:30):
But that's like, you're right.
Like I did it for them.
I'm like, I feel like I could have handled the abuse.
I could have figured it out.
I could have made it work, but I couldn't have dealt with the impact that it had on them.
Yeah, and I think that if you're listening and you're either in this situation right nowor you can relate, sometimes when the situation feels bigger than you, it's helpful to
(22:56):
think about someone you deeply love, whether it's your kids, your best friend, a sibling,whoever it might be.
And can you use them in the moment where you might not be strong enough to chooseyourself?
And so I also.
before we like, because I don't want to skip this like moment, right?
(23:17):
You had this, this literally like almost dying experience.
Was that the thing that sort of said I need to choose me or was it like after or how, whatwas it and what did that look like?
Not only what was it, but it's not just like one thing typically it's a series of things,but
(23:41):
we have to start knocking over dominoes if we want things to change.
So like, okay, you had this moment, but you've had other similar moments, maybe not asintense.
What was it about this one at that time that you were like, okay, I'm done.
Again, I think it is a million little things, but I will say one of them was my physicalhealth.
(24:07):
Like it was so bad.
was just, this is gonna sound vain, but like my skin was so bad, couldn't record, Icouldn't work.
Like it was so inflamed.
couldn't, my eyes were watering all day long.
Like I couldn't do normal daily activities because my.
like your body was just like literally fighting you?
(24:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is so crazy.
I'm also not surprised, but that's so wild.
I had such bad breakouts on my back that I couldn't sleep.
It hurt.
I couldn't touch my face.
It hurt.
It was just covered and inflamed.
I guess some later worse form of rosacea, which is what, of course, they diagnosed mewith, is constant watery eyes.
(24:55):
I was crying all day, but not crying, just like my eyes were crying.
It was almost like...
And then when the medicine isn't working and the dermatologist isn't working, it's like Igo to my Louise Hay book, How to Heal Your Life, and I'm like, something's got to give.
And it's like, I knew this was happening.
And then at the same time, things are falling apart with my kid's dad.
(25:22):
So this is the other thing that's happening where we'd had, you know, good co-parenting50-50 relationship for years.
And now he's just
finding himself and he doesn't have a job anymore and he's exploring the world and leavingthe kids with me more, which thank God, and doesn't have a house anymore.
(25:43):
And I'm like, what?
This happened the same weekend that I broke off the engagement.
And then the funniest thing, this is when I said, okay, God, I have heard you loud andclear.
The very next day, I'm paranoid.
I'm in my garage working out and
I hear a bang on my garage.
(26:03):
So immediately I think it's my ex here to kill me.
Yeah.
It's some, I look on the ring camera at some, a process server serving me papers to go bea witness in a custody battle from a guy I had dated five years ago.
(26:24):
Like when I first broke up with my kid's dad and I'm like, what?
Called by his ex-wife to be a witness in this.
And I'm like, if this, everything was just happening at once.
And I'm like,
Enough is enough.
And I didn't, this all took a few months to figure out what I was gonna do next, but I waslike, I have got to get out of here.
(26:51):
I know that wherever you go, there you are, but sometimes when things are really bad, youdo have to just run, go.
I can't help but think of, I think it was like an Oprah Super Soul Sunday or somethingwhere she talks about like the universe is whisper, God's whisper.
(27:11):
And it's like the universe will send you first your messages in a whisper.
And they are gentle.
And they are light.
And then it gets a little like more like a, you know, like you're being like, you know,parented.
So it's a little more strict, a little more intense.
Then it becomes a shout.
(27:32):
And then it's just like a baseball bat to the fucking head.
Like, hello, Ari.
So these, this was your baseball bat.
Yes.
This was your baseball bat moment.
bat moment.
it did like then, you you get to the peak, right?
And you're like fired up, like I'm changing my life.
But then you kind of settle back in.
But the universe then started continuing or God started continuing where it was like thisthing is happening.
(27:56):
And they weren't tragic or anything.
But I'm like, you know, just between the stalking and
the feeling of unsafety all the time.
no one, the weird thing is too, like no one really believed me.
Like even in my family, like I don't think they understood the depth and the quantity ofharassment I was receiving on a daily basis.
(28:27):
Like there were packages being delivered every day.
There were handwritten letters, there were hundreds.
and hundreds of emails, text messages, calls from different phones, messages on WhatsApp.
He tried to join an IGC Zoom meeting once.
don't even, like it was all angles, all the time, showing up to my church.
(28:52):
I don't know how he was finding me.
I literally don't.
The cops tried to find some type of tracking device on my car.
Like it just went on.
There was something every day for months.
And I just remember it was Easter, I think, when he showed up at church and I was with mykids and I saw him and he approached me at the church, like in front of everyone.
(29:15):
And I was like shaking and scared.
And I brought the kids over to their dads after that because I was like, didn't feel safehaving them.
And I'm like, this is so...
fucked up.
Like I can't even go to church with my kids on Easter.
I can't bring them home because I'm afraid and
(29:44):
I would eventually tell the stories to some people and they're like, I had no idea.
I think they were like, you didn't have to move and this and that.
I'm like, unless you're faced with that every single day, day in and day out, it is soscary being home alone.
(30:09):
and not being able to sleep and then you start, you do start losing your mind after monthswith no sleep.
I mean, if you've had a kid, you already know that.
Yeah, so.
I'm so sorry, number one, that that was going on.
I think that specifically what really hit me while you were talking is that not beingbelieved.
(30:32):
I think that's two things.
One, you're an attractive person that puts yourself out there on the internet.
So society says to women, you deserve it.
In a sense, you're asking for it.
You want the attention.
Yeah.
there's a societal factor to that.
And then there is like this part where I think you and I are very similar and a lot oflisteners on this podcast are really similar.
(30:58):
We're considered the strong one, right?
We're the one that people lean on.
I mean, we're coaches.
Of course they do, right?
It's like we are the people call for advice.
we're the rock, we're the ones that's like solid.
So we have in some way done ourself this disservice where like people just think, well,yeah, even if shit's hard, she's gonna get through it.
(31:24):
She'll figure it out.
Like it can't, yeah, yeah.
he wouldn't even come.
And like, this is just more of how I was raised, you know, and they took tough loveclearly to another level.
And it is what it is.
I accept him for who he is.
But that is exactly his response.
Like, you'll figure it out.
Just get a dog or something.
(31:45):
Yeah.
And so know that number one, like if you are feeling that way, first of all, find yourpeople, find your tribe.
And no, yeah.
door even better, but yeah.
lean in, lean in hard because the next phase, I will say that we're going to talk about,right?
(32:06):
So we have like the, you know, pre how did we get here kind of situation.
We then have this time where we say enough is enough.
And then we have to face like what is actually starting over look like, because to me, Idon't know about you.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts in my divorce process.
(32:28):
That was the hardest part.
I felt like, well, now I have nobody to blame my shit on.
It's me.
And I don't even really know who I am right now, what I want, which is, hey, how I cameinto IGC.
What's up?
So it all has a great story.
(32:50):
But what did that look like for you?
mean, you're at this point now where it's like, OK.
I have to do this thing.
Yeah, I think because of like moving into a secure, like very secure building, like Ididn't even want to live in a freestanding house, like I had to be in a secure building.
(33:11):
Because I had that element of safety and could sleep through the night, I actually feltbetter than ever.
But when you get out of survival mode, and you actually have some spaciousness, and you'renot
spending so much energy trying to manage an abusive relationship, which we cannot discountthe distraction I allow myself by doing that for.
(33:35):
I'm just like, what's going to happen with IGC now that I'm out of these badrelationships?
Like, sky's the limit, everybody.
If we could build this with me in the trenches, imagine when I'm out of them.
Buckle up, okay?
And hopefully that's a reminder for you too, because if you look at your life and you'velike raised a child or had a good income,
or gotten out, imagine, and I think my neighbor said this to me, she said, imagine if youdidn't have to spend this much time dealing with this man.
(34:04):
You have so much more energy now.
So the first thing I did was rest.
I'm not even kidding.
I have been resting.
I'm just getting out of the resting a little bit, but coming back, going back, but I neversaw my parents rest ever, ever.
I never saw that and I...
that's a whole different thing like examining their relationship and how it shows uptoday.
(34:29):
But I was like, I'm so tired.
So when we got here and I had my kids in this little like sanctuary safe space apartment,they're right there.
I don't have to switch them off to their dad.
I don't have to worry where their stuff is.
Everything's here.
We downsized so much, got rid of so much.
(34:49):
And we just kind of started over from the simplicity place where
I didn't have to go, well, I didn't ever mow the lawn at my house either, but I didn'thave to go fix something outside.
I didn't have to go and clean out the garage.
There was nothing.
And so I had no excuse now.
I didn't know anybody here.
Where I moved, I know literally one or two people.
(35:11):
I didn't have an excuse, so I've been resting a lot.
And to your other point, Kaitlyn, around figuring out who you are, that is legitimately
something I've been working on through a lot of different like books and writing andjournaling, but not excessive.
I'm not like a big morning routine, right?
I wish I was everyone, but if you're just like jotting things down and recording notes toyourself, that counts too.
(35:34):
Yeah.
Okay.
And I'm like, I'm really trying to, I know what my values are, but where I've gotten lostin the past is that I've been so obsessed with finding love.
and being happily married and yes, I want to have another baby.
So I, and yes, I'm getting too old for that, but we're just going to keep rocking with it.
(35:56):
You didn't know that?
No, I did not know that.
That's the biggest tea I've heard all day.
my dream, my dream.
OMG, I think you are insane.
That is wild.
Wild.
Good for you.
Someone has to do it.
Yes.
know, when my oldest son was born, he'll be 10 this year, I was just getting started inbusiness.
(36:20):
We were poor and like, you know, we had just quit our jobs and we were in our 20s andlike, was just different.
And then when my second son was born was when I found out their dad was like cheating, butI couldn't leave because I wasn't prepared with a newborn and a toddler.
And like, I just never, I really want
a different experience.
(36:41):
And I love being pregnant and I still think there's a daughter in the ethers for me.
anyway, but I can't, have wanted to, there've been so many moments of weakness and I knowI can just go out or like get on the dating apps and like find somebody and my God, I have
wanted to just, just take him, like it'll be good enough.
(37:03):
And I can't.
And so a lot of the work is like,
instead of choosing from, because I can really gaslight myself and be like, you know, loveis one of your values and Olivia, that is not love.
You know what I'm saying?
So really looking at what your values look like in terms of decision making.
that's so good.
(37:24):
That's my work this year, slowing down and making decisions based on my real values, notlike a rushed quick fix.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm like letting that soak in for a second because that really, really hits home for me ina different way with everything I went through with my daughter this year and her recent
(37:52):
like diagnosis.
But what I'm thinking about specifically is when our body is in that complete state ofsurvival, whatever your heart is, it's like, what does it look like when we downshift?
and rest.
And I think that's the biggest thing that you shared is like, rest, like real rest, giveyourself permission to rest and not settling for, and, and I catch myself doing this in
(38:20):
business too, where it's like, that partnership is good enough.
Or even like at the beginning of my business, I would work with anyone that wanted to workwith me.
Cause I was like, I'll just, I need a client.
I'll take them.
They're good enough.
but when you rest,
and get still for a second.
That's the only time, in my opinion.
(38:41):
Maybe somebody else out there has a different thought.
It's really one of the only ways to be able to use that intuitive gift we've all beengiven to discern.
We cannot have discernment when we're in survival.
It's impossible.
And we'll just literally take anything because we're fine.
(39:02):
Yeah.
I can't even make a decision right now and you look good enough for me.
Whether that's literally love, business, career, health, all the things.
so this is your permission slip to rest everybody.
and also like, yeah, tell me.
think people often too have this like glorified version of what rest is.
(39:27):
And I just have, I don't have that.
Like I have my kids a hundred percent of the time, all the time now.
I have taken, I'm weaning them out of public school, to be honest.
Like I'd have them out of aftercare.
They come home right after.
I'm doing everything I can to figure out a way to make both of our lives work andhomeschool them in some capacity.
So like,
(39:48):
I don't have time for that.
Like I'm not out at a spa is what I'm saying.
I'm not out getting a massage.
I'm not out getting, I have to go get my nails done.
Don't look.
But that's just maintenance at this point.
That's about the, everyone's saying that the woman I was with yesterday at a field tripsaid that.
And I'm like, I really am thinking about that.
But my rest is like, the only thing I don't really consider rest is scrolling on my phonebecause that's a little bit like not restful.
(40:14):
But I do consider it laying in bed and just like laying there.
Like maybe I'm not sleeping.
I consider it watching shows that don't create, don't require a lot of energy too.
That is one thing.
I never, I always felt guilty watching TV, especially in the self-help world.
People are like, it's such an energy drain.
Don't watch TV, just read and meditate and write.
(40:35):
And I'm like, no.
Sometimes resting is just watching a show.
Or my other form of rest is walking, just walking, walking around town, listening to apodcast.
That is so rejuvenating to me.
But I can't tell you the last time I spent a day at a spa or went to a massage or got afacial.
(40:57):
I'm afraid to put anything on my face after this year, let's be honest.
it's not like that.
It's literally just laying around.
It's teaching your kids what a rot day is.
I've taught them that.
Yes.
And I'm like, you guys can go play on your PS5.
You can go do what you need to do.
But we're going to be quiet.
(41:17):
and we're not gonna make mommy a mess and like whatever else go.
So I just wanna stay that too because I think sometimes people have this like, yo, youhave to plan it all out.
Actually not having a plan and realizing I haven't driven my car in three days.
That's a win.
That's a win.
And people will confuse it with depression and I can tell you it wasn't for me.
(41:39):
My sister all the time, are you sure you're okay?
You haven't gone out, you haven't like done.
I'm like, I am better than okay.
I can't believe it.
And I'm not just saying that.
I genuinely feel so peaceful.
Move yourself to a city where no one knows you.
Ain't nobody gonna ask you for shit.
I'm just like...
(42:00):
You're like, OK, if I had known this, I would have done it a long time ago, right?
I mean,
love community and I love family and I love being of service to people.
I'm not sure what that's going to look like in this next version of myself beyond work andmy kids right now.
But this is this is the place that I'm in right now.
And I don't think if I I got to this place, I would have been back in the cycle of abusebecause I would have needed something to fill the time because for whatever reason, giving
(42:29):
it to myself to do nothing was just not something I was brought up knowing was OK.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for breaking that down because that is, I would say, one of the biggest, again,disconnects when people look at maybe our social media or things like that or think, we
(42:50):
make a high income.
And yes, we do have certain privileges, certainly.
But also, rest, again, does not mean this very bougie.
of massages and spas and like having to have sitters for your kids so you can takethree-day luxury solo vacations and retreats.
Those are all nice things that if they come up, great, cool, I'm game.
(43:14):
But resting can be something as simple as like not getting out of the sweats for two days.
And yeah, yeah.
funny.
I don't mean it like that.
I literally meant lay down.
my God.
Maybe we'll get to that in 2025.
okay okay yeah let's put that out there for 2025.
like, my kids will be like, what are you doing?
(43:35):
And I'm like, I'm just laying, I'm laying.
God, that's funny.
But whatever, a good lay actually sounds rejuvenating too.
you know, just gonna keep talking about her.
So I've got one you can borrow.
Don't worry.
So yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm dying.
(43:55):
So OK.
We've talked about so many things.
And I'm so happy we've had this conversation because, in my opinion,
I wish I had had this conversation when I was going through my darkest hours and days.
Because again, yes, we talked about relationship, but insert whatever.
(44:16):
Insert whatever it might be for you.
And it might have been a series of things like it was for the two of us.
But now that I am two years post, you're kind of at the end of your year, if you will.
It's easier, still not easy, but it's easier to say, this doesn't, that year doesn'tdefine my life.
(44:42):
It was a year.
But when we're in it, it's harder to have that reflection and to say that.
like, if you had to sum up some like really good lessons, if you will, like not to becheesy, but like to leave people with just a little something, if they are finishing this
year in the thick of it, like what are.
(45:03):
What are some good things to leave them with?
Yeah, well, think that number one is like rock bottom is the perfect place to start.
I unfortunately, I would say yes, I would say I don't like it, but clearly history showsthat I love it.
I might be addicted to it.
I'm hoping that I've really learned this time.
(45:25):
But there, I think that when God takes away everything from you, it is not because hedoesn't want you to have everything that you want.
It's because
it goes back to like this or something better.
That is what I have been telling myself over and over.
I'm about to get it tattooed on my hand too.
(45:45):
But like, if we genuinely believe that life is good or it can be good, then we can't staystuck.
And if you don't have that belief yet, that's where you start, like looking for signs ofit.
I did this journal.
years ago, and I say journal loosely, it was probably post-it scattered around, it waswhatever piece of paper I could find, okay?
(46:13):
But I hated my life so much when I was in my teaching job, and my coach at the time,Katie, had said to me, can you just try to like write down a few things every day that are
like going okay for you, maybe not great.
But that simple practice of really recognizing the good, which I feel like is such a basickind of like coaching practice or self-help practice,
(46:35):
But you all, I am not saying go climb a mountain and find yourself at the top.
I'm type with your fingers or write with a pen.
You have to understand these are literal tasks that will take you two minutes and have thepower to change everything.
So don't skip out if you're like, I don't have time for that.
No one has time for anything.
(46:59):
We don't, we don't.
So whether it's rock bottom or nearing there or
I mean, if you're in one of these abusive type relationships too, I really do have torecommend this podcast.
It's called The Game.
my God, and of course I'm gonna recommend it, but I'll be able to remember.
The Game Exposed.
I'm not even kidding.
When it comes to getting out of the cycle of abuse, that podcast, I mean, my kids startedbeing like, what's narcissism?
(47:26):
What's a covert narcissist?
And then they know.
and they're like, is psychological abuse when you hurt someone's brain?
So yes, they overheard some of this, I was really like, the more I listened to that andhow medical it kind of was and how scientific it was, I was like, it shifted something
(47:47):
within me where I'm like,
No, this is literally a condition that I cannot change.
You cannot go in and fix this person and make them love you more if you like get prettieror make more money or make them more food, da da da da.
That part, I just listen to it every day.
There's like a hundred million episodes.
Every, this might not be healthy and again, I'm not a therapist, but that really helped meto just see how black and white this really was and how hopeless this relationship was.
(48:17):
because I needed to drain all good and all hope out of it so that I would never go back.
Mmm, so good.
So, so, so, so good.
And do I have any other helpful takeaways?
I don't know.
mean, it's just if you're still breathing, if you're still waking up, there's there'shope.
And I am really saying this from feeling like there wasn't most of this year.
(48:42):
It wasn't until August, probably the end of August, because right when we did move, I washaving so many the kids were unhappy.
Like there was that whole thing of like dealing with them and taking them away from theirlife.
So maybe it was closer to September where I was finally like, I think I can do this.
But what I would say is a year, call it a year, nine months to a year, like you're livinganyway.
(49:09):
You're here anyway.
So, you know, there's hope.
Yeah.
what you will.
And I do think that it's a really good reminder of focusing on, it's big in my communitywhere I always ask the question, what's going right in your life today?
(49:31):
And there's always one thing.
I promise you.
I promise you.
So I feel like that's a really good note to end on.
And I always encourage listeners, if you've gotten this far,
which I hope you have because there was some really good juicy nuggets.
DM us.
DM us and tell us what's going right in your world today.
(49:51):
I would love to, as always, hear from you.
And it's a great way just to have this exterior check-in.
And I know Liv's an open book, just like I am.
And we also have a great community in the coaching world of people who
can guide people through this and be a support system, find a community.
(50:13):
So for people listening who want to be able to connect with you, watch your journey.
Because 2025, the world better buckle up.
Watch out.
Where can people connect with you and find you?
Yeah, thank you for that.
So I'm most active on Instagram at TheLiveChapman.
If you're looking for coaching or anything like that, we're on every social media at InnerGlow Circle everywhere.
(50:38):
But I would say even if you want to access all that, just connect with me on Instagram.
I will say this because someone said this to me in a podcast that I listened to, like alittle celebrity said, like, if you're dealing with an abusive relationship and you need
someone to
be validated by DM me and I actually did when I was going through this and she replied andit made a lot of difference.
(50:59):
so again, I'm not an expert at any of it, but if you're going through something similar,like my inbox is open and I am happy to share everything I know around getting out of that
because if you have been able to even know Caitlin, you know Caitlin and you're aroundher.
So you've done something with your life.
(51:19):
So imagine if you were out of something abusive and you had Caitlin or and you hadeverything you've created.
Like that's what keeps me going.
I'm like, holy crap.
Like imagine what's next.
We can do life under that much pressure.
Imagine what we can do when we're at peace.
(51:40):
Such a good way to end it.
Thank you so much for letting me have my Barbara Walters moment and have this really funconversation.
I think it's so refreshing and important for the end of this year.
And I just love and adore you and respect you and appreciate you.
So thanks, girl.
This was fabulous.
Thank you.
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