Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

A podcast for worship leaders, pastors, and those invested in a healthier, whole church.

Episodes

August 13, 2025 71 mins

Topics Covered:

  • C. Peter Wagner and the alliance between church growth and charismatic theology
  • The New Apostolic Reformation and why it's important we understand it
  • A definition of Dominion Theology
  • The Seven Mountain Mandate and how popular this ideology is
  • Why not all charismatic/pentecostal movements and theology are dangerous
  • Paula White and the prosperity Gospel
  • The...
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On July 25, 2025 Isaac Caree released a podcast interview with Norman Gyamfi. Norman is a music industry executive and part owner of Maverick City Music. Suffice it to say, this conversation created a firestorm of controversy and conversation around Gospel Music, CCM, and the racial tension embedded within the music industry. We know these things are going on, but for maybe the first time - a business executive let it ALL out.

Bein...

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Topics Covered:

  • Growing up and learning music in the black church
  • Leading multigenerational worship
  • The crazy story of how John was "discovered"
  • Overcoming insecurity and fear
  • The purpose and privilege of corporate worship

Resources Mentioned:

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Topics Covered:

  • The story of how Word of Life Church lost 1500 people
  • Why America is a rival religion to Christianity
  • Why America is more akin to Babylon than ancient Israel
  • How the charismatic movement went awry
  • Why charismatic worship is so aligned with DT and Christian nationalism
  • Why music, literature, and films are important to Brian
  • How Brian uses music to write ser...
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Topics Covered:

  • How Dustin got involved in worship ministry
  • The challenge with young artists and worship leaders who taste success early
  • Why the CCM system is broken
  • Practical ways to reform the Christian music industry
  • How we set up young worship leaders for failure
  • New Sanctus Real music

Resources Mentioned:

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One my favorite books this year was Be The Bridge: Pursuing God’s Heart for Racial Reconciliation by Latasha Morrison. A wonderful book that is challenging but also compassionate and full of grace.

We’ve waded into conversations like this recently with Nikki Lerner, Darwin Hobbs, and David Gate.

Why are we doing this? Because I truly believe it matters. It matters for our souls, our relationships, our churches, and our nation. We c...

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So we talk a lot about the worship industry on this podcast. Sometimes that conversation can result in a let’s just wine and complain about how awful it is.

But my guests today are not content with that sort of negativity! It will not be tolerated!

But here’s the reality: The music industry is built on financial inequality and the worship industry is no different. Those at the top often make a killing, while many musicians and arti...

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Today’s conversation is a bit of a departure from our usual worship leader/worship industry conversation. I’m talking with Stanley Hauerwas.

Here’s his bio:

Stanley Hauerwas, a theologian and Christian ethicist, is professor emeritus of theological ethics and of law at Duke University. He is the author or editor of more than fifty books, including Resident Alie...

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Topics Covered:

  • We talk about how we can glean insights from various church traditions
  • Why creeds are important
  • Why the church’s reputation is suffering in America today
  • How lead pastors and worship leaders can understand each other better
  • What to look for in hiring a worship pastor. So let’s get right to my conversation with Glenn Packiam.

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Today’s topic and subject matter is a tough one. I’m talking with my friend David Gate. David is a writer and poet. He has a new book releasing in 2025 called A Rebellion of Care. But David also has a long history as a worship leader, songwriter, and artist.

David wrote an article recently in response to the new Ryan Coogler move Sinners, starring Michael B Jordan. The title of that article was “How White Charismatic Worship Stole...

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Today’s conversation is with my friend Andy Cherry. Andy is a Worship Leader, former Worship Pastor, Songwriter with Capitol CMG, and touring bandmate with Brandon Lake.

Andy is mega talented and a thoughtful voice on the tensions of worship and industry. As a professional songwriter, he’s someone whose livelihood is connected to the worship industry. We have a great chat about excellence culture in the church. Has it gone too far?...

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Today’s conversation is with Dr. Lester Ruth, a research professor of Christian Worship at Duke Divinity School. If you go back in the archives you’ll see I interviewed Lester and Swee Hong Lim around the time they released their book A History of Contemporary Praise & Worship. Lester is a worship historian. The subject of this interview is about Christian Nationalism and Worship, a new course that Lester has been teaching.

I wante...

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Today’s conversation is with Andrew Osenga. Andrew is an artist, songwriter, producer, musician, and author. He used to do A&R with Integrity Music. Used to have a band called The Normals. Was a part of Caedmon’s Call. Has a host of solo records and albums. He’s a very thoughtful voice in this space of worship and spiritual formation. He leads a project called Anchor Hymns. This was a deep, far ranging conversation.

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Today’s conversation is an interesting juxtaposition to last week’s podcast with Jason Houtsma. Jason leads worship in a church of less than 100 people. Today’s guest - Jordan Howerton - is the Worship Pastor for one of the largest churches in the country - Christ’s Church of the Valley in Phoenix, AZ.

If you’ve listened to the my podcast for a while, you’ll know I don’t believe bigger is better. There is beauty in small. There is...

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Topics Covered:

  • Playing actual live music in worship
  • The small church community
  • Comparing large church/high production to small church/low production
  • Why you might NOT want to use clicks and tracks
  • Taking risks and being creative in worship again

Resources Mentioned:

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Topics Covered:

  • Coffee snobbery
  • John's favorite US (and international) coffee shops
  • How to extend your vocal range
  • Caring for the person, not the just the gifting
  • The importance of staying rooted in a local church
  • The dangers of ego and self centeredness in ministry
  • Sonship
  • Time restraints in worship
  • Structure and flow in worship

Resourc...
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    Today’s conversation is with Natalie Runion - Natalie is a worship leader, author, speaker, and founder of the online community Raised to Stay. She’s written two books - Raised to Stay and The House that Jesus Built, both powerful, insightful reads into the realities of local church ministry.

    In this conversation we talk about worship ministry tensions, aging out of ministry roles, challenges for women in ministry, the idol of gree...

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    Topics Covered:

    • Unlearning and deciphering mega church worship models
    • Why it's not our job to move the room
    • Trusting the Holy Spirit as a worship leader
    • How the Church Growth movement has effected the role of worship leaders
    • Why we have elevated young leaders too soon
    • An alternative to big, massive, mega church worship

    Resources Mentione...
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    Topics Covered:

    • Why Gospel Music is fringe within the church
    • Why we need diversity and how to encourage it
    • Matters of race and racism in the church
    • Finding your voice and being comfortable in your own skin
    • Why we don't understand the systemic nature of racism and can't always see it
    • Darwin's upcoming new Setlist project

    Resources Mention...
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    Topics Covered:

    • The story behind David's new studio
    • The importance of creating in community
    • The challenges of being a Christian artist in 2025
    • What is exciting about worship music today
    • Challenges with worship music today

    Resources Mentioned:

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