BP Bonus: I Know What I Saw (2009)

Back at the roundtable, the boys discuss the 2009 film I Know What I Saw. Written and directed by James Fox, I Know What I Saw is a documentary about UFO witnesses and investigators around the world and their experiences in ufology. David, Derek, and Zenger talk about how well the film has stood up in the decade since its release. Decent interviews and decent pace keep attentions for this one. The boys are pleasantly surprised on this episode of Nights at the Roundtable on Blurry Photos! Don't forget to check out another roundtable while you're at it. Find Derek at Monsters Among Us Find Zenger at Zeng This!

Episode Transcript

(00:29):
Welcome to another night at the roundTable. Tonight we'll be going over a
documentary I Know What I Saw twothousand and nine History Channel. Is it
a History Channel original? By theway, you got me Zinger, I'm
David. Well, this is Derek, and I'll chime in. I think
History has something to do with itbecause they're on the little poster. They're

(00:52):
in IMDb. But my guess isit was something filmed independently in History Channel
picked it up. I'm going withthat because at the beginning of the one
I watched as the you know UFONetwork or t UFO TV. I think
it is. Yeah, yeah,yeah, So so we watched I Know
What I Saw, which is anolder documentary one hundred and thirty two minutes.

(01:14):
We did not watch the Lifetime originalmovie I Know What I Saw,
because there's also that that came outin two thousand and seven, and we
did not read the book by mLinda Godfried. I Know What I Saw.
That's a good book. That's agood book. Yeah it is.
And also on that fun note,she also has a book called Monsters among

(01:34):
Us. We watched this documentary andI gotta say it wasn't bad. It's
just blatantly outdated from two thousand andnine because it was not the documentary I
thought it was until I started watchingit. So this was my pick.
My bad, but I may Igathered some stuff from this, so I
think we can salvage this, guys. Unless you've got any positive things to

(01:57):
say about the documentary front, Iliked it. I thought it was pretty
good actually, in terms of justkind of collecting and archiving a lot of
different sightings and stuff, including somewell known ones and lesser known ones.
I thought it was pretty good forwhat it was. I think the director,
James Fox did some good stuff withit, which we can get into

(02:22):
later. I definitely want to getinto that. Derek Um, Yeah,
I actually did like it as well, although I will admit it was very
dry. It's been a long dayfor me and I'm just kind of nodding
off there a few times. Andmaybe to me, you know, I
knew every one of these stories.Nothing here was a surprise to me.
Humble brag, But maybe that hadsomething to do with, you know,

(02:47):
the the mundane fashion of the film. But like you said, it's from
two thousand and nine, so it'sa little older. It's not brand new,
so it's it moved a little slowerand that kind of thing. But
there was a lot of good information, like Flora said, which is what
I decided to do with this,was to go over some of the sightings
and stuff they talked about and getour three's opinion on each of them,

(03:08):
since I feel like that would bea great way to go over this.
It's fresh and arm minds everything.So the initial documentary starts off with them
talking about the Phoenix Lights, thePhoenix Slice, of course, taking place
in March of nineteen ninety seven,So God, that's getting up there in

(03:29):
time now. I'm just thirty yearsago, closer to thirty years than twenty
so. But but this this signtook place, of course, over Phoenix
and over the states of Nevada andArizona. So I guess I'm gonna go
to the expert, the the selfproclaimed expert Derek Hays first for this one.

(03:50):
Derek, what are your thoughts onthe Phoenix Lights? I think David
and I both just puckered up atthe same time. Well, you you
claimed it, so go for it, man. I don't. I don't
know that I claimed it. Butthe Phoenix Lights. So that was certainly
an interesting series of events there,and one of the things that to this

(04:12):
day still catches my attention is inthis documentary is a really good example.
They talk to all the witnesses outthere and you actually see their passion and
what they're talking about what they claimto have seen. And on top of
that, there was two different setsof sightings that night. There was the
early sighting, which was the quoteunquote legitimate sighting, and then an hour

(04:34):
or so later there was what lookedlike military flares drop in the exact same
place, which to me sounds likesome sort of cover up was going on.
You know, I'm not an experton the Phoenix lights, despite what
Singer thinks, but if I hadto say, I would say that something
showed up in the military kind ofswooped into to cover it up. All

(04:55):
right, What about you? Ithink Derek hit all the points on that.
I feel the same way. Thefirst sighting that you could track across
state lines with the sightings that peoplehad in the reports, I think that's
a lot more legitimate, and theone that was over the mountain out there,

(05:16):
which we have one at least onevideo of that's pretty famous. Where
you see the lights kind of flickeringout here and there. Somebody has has
put up a kind of an outlineof that mountain in the daytime, and
it I think, according to them, it seems like it corresponds to them
disappearing behind that mountain in spots,and that's why it's so kind of random.

(05:42):
Which one's blink in and out ornot in. I guess they just
blink out. But yeah, I'mwith Derek. I think that the first
one was a lot more legitimate.You have a ton of people that report
it and see it, and that'swhat makes it so compelling. And then
somebody either either some and was coincidentalwith flares, you know, out there
dropping that night they had it onthe on the books, or they swooped

(06:06):
in and were like, shoot,this is something we either don't know or
it is one of ours that wasgoing so fast that pilot didn't know what
to do and so and so let'sget some flares up there and just tell
everybody it's flares. Yeah, Idon't know. So so one of the
things they point out is that thiswas all done by a ten aircraft,

(06:27):
which not a super military expert,not super familiar with everything that flies in
the sky. But if I'm rememberingcorrectly, I feel a ten ward hogs
are if I remember correctly, theyhave a very noticeable sound. Yeah,
and you have a you have aclip of that sound right right here.

(06:47):
I'm inserting it right here. Wow, thank you, thank you. Um
No, I mean it's a verynoticeable sound that's supposed to have and no
one reported that. Yeah, andit's these these also, A tens are
not like you know, the jetsthat fly there. They're the big things

(07:08):
with the machine guns on the frontthat are designed to take out tanks.
They're not meant for like super highflying or stuff like that. So it's
really weird that that would be thego to excuse of all it was a
tens. There was the fact thata lot of people just sit It was
silent too that first second. Yeah, and these have very distinct engine sounds

(07:29):
to them, which I'm pretty surepeople are to report, But all jets
do. I mean, if youthink about it, there's not too many
aircraft out there that are silent,especially back in ninety seven. Yeah,
the drone technology just simply wasn't there. Unless this was an early drone who
knows, but no, I wantI wanted to pick pick Carol's brain about
this one and everything, because Imean, like you said, it's there,

(07:50):
there's a lot of this that's unexplained. And not to sound super conspiracy
theorist, but I think the governmentknows more about this than they're lighting on.
And this is the kind of disclosureI would want, because this was
before we had soft disclosure and beforewe add to the Stars Academy stuff that
I'm sure stuff like the press conference, stuff like that they touch on in

(08:13):
this that sort of leads to whatwe know now years later. But moving
onto the next siding they talked about, or the next siding that I felt
was pertinent for us to discuss thething that kicked off this whole flying saucer
craze. Kenneth Kenneth Arnold siding takingplace in June of nineteen forty seven,

(08:41):
Kenneth Arnold claims to have seen astring of nine shiny, unidentified flying objects
as he flew past Mount Rainier.The estimate speed was twelve hundred miles an
hour. So, Flora, I'mgonna swing the ball in your court for
this one. I have no Um, there's nothing I can say that would

(09:09):
debunk this. I don't think there'sanything to debunk. It's it's a citing
that he had. He's a pilotand he was pretty vehement about what he
saw and there were multiple I thinksaucer shaped objects that he saw. Wasn't
there, There wasn't just one thatwas bouncing around. It was like seven
to nine. Yeah, it sevento nine. I think it's it's interesting

(09:30):
and yeah, I don't know what. I don't know that you could really
say one thing or another confidently aboutit because at that time, I mean
forty seven, that's very early dayswith even jet fighters. So if they're
seeing something that maneuvers, just likehe said, if that's true, then

(09:52):
yeah, that there's something going onthere that is beyond human capacity at the
time. Anyway, the thing thatgets me about this case is, uh,
it's like two weeks later Roswell takesplace. Yeah, and between Kenneth
Arnold's sighting Roswell and I think therewas one other. I don't know if
it was like Shag Harbor or sometimes. Um the Maury Island Maury Island incident

(10:16):
had had them backwards. One onesin Seattle and the other ones in Maine,
I think, or Newfoundland or something. Yeah, the oppositens of the
country. But they happened right aroundthe same time. And I think that
was the first men in black caseto the Maury Island, which is funny
because the Kenneth Arnold case was thefirst use of the term flying saucer.

(10:37):
He described them as skipping across thesky like I think it's in this documentary
actually he says this clip. Hedescribes them skipping across what looked like the
water like a like a saucer would. So then the papers picked it up
all the flying saucer, yeah,because they talked about before that. During
World War Two they would be knownas food Fighters, which is where we
get the band name the Food Fightersfrom. Uh. The other interesting thing

(11:03):
about this I can't remember. Ithink it's a popular mechanics um cover where
it has like the swooped wing sortof flying object that, yes, it
looks flyin saucer with a bite takenout of it is basically what it looks
like. Yeah, and it looksreminiscent enough to us nowadays, like oh

(11:26):
that that looks vaguely like a bomberlike one of our stealth bombers, I
said, vaguely, but it's like, it's weird that correlation that my mind
goes to seeing that now with ourpresent day of mind, was that what
was flying around back then. I'mnot saying it was. I'm just saying
it's a weird sort of correlation.But of course correlations not causation. My

(11:50):
thing is that's what kicked off thewhole craze. And I found it interesting
that they used him to sort ofdo other investigations too for a little bit,
because I'm like, was he theexpert after that of like, oh
he saw this, bring him in. But also I keep thinking Morey Island
was, like Derek was on theother side of the country. I keep

(12:13):
forgetting it was near where he lived, So it's not like that out there,
I guess. And there's something strangeabout that area. His sighting was
over the Olympics in Washington State,and I get a ton of report UFO
reports from not only Washington State butto Pacific Northwest in general. I mean
dozens upon dozens compared to other places. So there's something strange going on up

(12:37):
there. I just, you know, don't know what it is. That's
well, I guess it's not thatclose to Mount Shasta, but that's another
place that kind of a hot spot. That's northern California. But there there
has been some talk about those places, at least Mount Shasta and stuff in
the Pacific Northwest. Mountain wise,that is one of the entrances to the

(13:01):
Hollow Earth, and that's why lotsof stuff comes in and out of their
Batsquatch even has been linked to someof that stuff. But I think the
from what I'm seeing online, thestealth bomber you were you were mentioning when
we got around to designing that,that was that wasn't until like the mid

(13:22):
seventies that I think they even starteddesigning it. So that's, you know,
almost thirty years later, allegedly.I was about to say, I
was about to say, if youguys remember there was a show on sci
Fi called um oh gosh, I'mtrying remember what it was. Wasn't signed?

(13:43):
It was like Steven Spielberg exactually producedit, Dakota Fanning. Wasn't it
taken? Taken? Yeah? Yeah, And there's a scene in there where
it's like right after World War Two, like about ten years later, and
they had the stealth bombers flying aroundthe base and they're like, yeah,
we're not going to be disclosing thosefor about another twenty. Sorry. That

(14:05):
just made me think of that show, which I haven't seen in years,
so god knows how good that isanymore, from if it even holds up.
But like that, that's something likevery very point in time, speaking
a point in time and staying inOregon. Something I found interesting was we
get the mcmonville UFO photos. They'rethe one that looks like the pie,

(14:31):
Like literally looks like a pie.Someone took a pie saucer and threw it
up in the air from mcmnville,Oregon, taken in nineteen fifty. They're
also known as the Trent UFO photos. So I was about to say they
showed it, and I think theyinterviewed the photographer's wife because he had passed
on by then. I don't knowif you guys wanted to talk about these

(14:54):
real quick. It looks fake,like they look so fake, but they're
always held up as such legit photos. You know. It's funny. When
I was a kid, I alwayshad those Readers Digests paranormal book series.
Yeah, I didn't have them mygrandparents had him, and whenever I go
over there, I just dive intothose things. And the UFO book was

(15:16):
obviously one of my favorites. Inthe mcmn photo was in there. Mcmanville.
Sorry, and uh, I thoughtthe same thing when I was a
kid, like seven, eight nineyears old. I'm thinking, this looks
like a pie plate. Looks likethey just threw it up there and took
the picture. But yeah, likeyou said, it's held in high regard
for some reason. I'm not entirelysure, and maybe I might be wrong

(15:37):
on this. I get a lotof these confused lately. But did they
just release new photographs of the mcmhnvillecase that were that were held up by
the government for some reason, maybemixing this up with a different case.
But maybe three months ago there wasa new picture that was released involving one

(15:58):
of these famous old cases. Um, While David responds, I'm going to
take a look. I'm I'm lookingat the photo right now, and you
can tell, you know, it'sa it looks like someone through a hotel
bellboy bell. You know, it'skind of kind of a flat bottom to

(16:21):
it, and then you can seethere's a little dome and something there on
top. But I'm I'm wondering whenwhen we see, especially old pictures,
I always wonder about shutter speed thingslike that with cameras because it's hard today

(16:44):
to capture something moving with the phone. That just doesn't make it a mess.
Um. And so I'm just wondering, you know what, what do
you guys think about photos that lookvery pristine and what you're looking at,
um, even if it was thrownin the air, you'd think there'd be
some kind of blur. Right.Well, there's I think there's three total

(17:07):
photos. You have like one whereit's sort of banking. You have one
words more straight on and I can'tremember what the other one is. But
and it is taken in quick successionand you didn't have like automode or anything
like that on these. It's there. It's it's compelling. How much of

(17:30):
the test the time this is thisis held up to though, like it's
something. I mean, I don'tever see anything saying it was hoaxed or
someone came out like with Nessie thefamous surgeon's photo and on their deathbed,
whin I was the one that thatwas that made the boat like the there
there's no one saying I'm the onethat flew the through the byton, So

(17:56):
I don't know. I don't goahead, Derek. I was just gonna
chime in with what David was saying. Maybe back in the day, and
I don't know what camera was used, and you know, I'm not a
camera expert either, but I thinkback then the cameras were kind of cheaper,
and they had like a wide focusrange or a focal length so that
they could accommodate any range. Ifyou're taking a close up picture, then

(18:18):
you're in focus. If you're takinga distant shot, is going to be
in focus. And the camera speeddetermines how blurry things are. So if
it was bright outside, the cameraspeed's probably really quick and that'll cut down
on any blurring of the image.One thing I want to point out,
and I didn't really realize it untiljust now. I googled it too while
you guys were talking, And doyou guys remember I think it was the

(18:42):
Nimits or the one of those thatcame. Oh here it is, actually
I just found it. Let metell you which one. This one is
Killer radio right here. It's oneof those military I'm still trying to find
which one. This one's off thecoast of Florida, so if narrows it
down to anybody, But it's thesame shape that this mcminville UFO is.

(19:04):
It's a it's like an oval andthen uh, it's got that little point
on the top that looks like alike a kaiser's helmet from World War One
or something. Fight the you guysable to find this this image that sounds
like that one picture of the mcminville. It's because it's got something sticking up

(19:26):
in the middle of it. Yeah, it's just got a little point at
the top. Now in the gimbalthat's the name of this one, because
it looks like a gimbal. Ibelieve I type go fast. I type
because I thought it was the gofact. Oh no, go fast.
The other ones all typing it pulledup, both of them. It looks
like it has the top on bothsides almost. That is weird. I

(19:52):
was about to say, Derek,thank you. That is very I would
have never thought to put those twopieces together because it was gonna what's the
date on that second one, FloridaUM twenty ten? I believe whoa that
was? Whoa? Sixty years later, Yeah, that's a slow flight,
well at all across America. Yougot to assume that. You know,

(20:15):
if you keep seeing the same shapeover and over and it's reported over and
over, photographed over and over,that's going to mean something. Um,
even if it's the same hoaxer orsomething, you know, it means something.
Well, I tricked that guy inOregon. I'm gonna trick the US
Navy now. But huh, justchucks it in the air. I said,

(20:38):
there's a lot of there's other onesthat I didn't type on here,
but I mean if you searched mcmonvillephoto, um and go to images there,
there is like a few of theother ones I cannot remember. It's
the one where the guy took itand it was like flying across in front
of his um, his car orhis truck, and he took several photos

(20:59):
of it. And it's the smokersmoke ring at the end you talking about.
I was about to say, there'sgonna know but not remember the names.
I don't know the name yet,but I unfamiliar with the image.
Images had pulled up too, Andthat's the that's a sad part um.
So I guess moving on, whyI look that up to this on the
side. Um, I guess ourconclusion on this is, I mean,

(21:22):
it looks fake, but maybe legit. We're talking about mcmonville, Yeah,
yeah, we're well. I guessconclusion to the mcmonville photo host, Yeah,
who knows. I mean there's along time ago speaking people take it
seriously, so who knows. Speakingof inconclusive um findings, Project blue Book

(21:48):
the US government's effort from nineteen fiftytwo to nineteen sixty nine to basically be
like there's nothing in the sky andproceeded of course by Project Grudge and Project
sign and the basically their summation onthis was, yeah, there's there's nothing
for you guys to worry about.But it took John Heineck from a very

(22:17):
solid in the camp of these arefake to being very skeptical by the end
of it. I don't okay.I went to David for the last one.
Go into Derek for this one.Derek thoughts on the Project Bluebook and
the fact that it turned Heineck froma skeptic to a believer by the end,
and is Swampcastle legitimate thing that youget reports of on your show?

(22:41):
I first I questioned whether or notHeinick changed his mind. I'm kind of
in the understanding that he thought thisway the whole time and he just wasn't
able to verbalize any of this information. And actually there was clips in this
documentary that kept that supported that theory. They showed two juxtaposing clips, one

(23:02):
from I don't know, the sixtiesat some point and the other one was
from the late seventies. And he'sjust he's contradicting himself the entire time,
and that tells me that, youknow, the program's over, he's no
longer working with the government. Hecan be a little more loose lipped,
I think ten years later. Yeah, all right, And what was the
other what was the other question?Oh? No, just I just was
saying your thoughts on Project Blue Bookwith them basically summing up everything as oh

(23:26):
well, I think what was itThey only like found like five percent was
unexplained by the end of it,or they claimed only five percent was unexplained.
Was this the government attempting to coverup something or do you think they
were putting in a legit effort thewhole time they were covering everything up?
A Blue Blue Book wasn't for us? Well, Let's let me rephrase that

(23:51):
it was for us, but nothow we think it was. It was
designed to deceive us, to keepus in the dark, in the dark
of what I don't know. Idon't I don't know what was out there
that they were keeping from us,but that's definitely what that program was set
up for. It was either itwas either that or it was it was
just run by somebody who didn't care. That's I got. I've written a

(24:14):
lot of stuff about it that itseemed like one of the guy, at
least one of the guys in charge, was just like, yeah, yeah,
yeah, get your report in here. Who cares. Let's just sign
off on this and get it back. Who cares? Like that's kind of
the impression that I got. It. Nobody literally said that, but it
was kind of one of those militarythings where it's like, hey, will
you do this? All right?Fine, if I have to, let's

(24:36):
do this. Here's some reports.I don't know. I got that impression
of it, So yeah, Iagree with Derek. It could either be
that it's completely for the public toshut him up, or it was just
kind of like a joke or takenas a joke by whoever was leading.

(24:56):
It just too old school for itor something, you know what I mean,
probably a little of all that.Yeah, but sorry that the Heinich
stuff like he was saying that laterclip, which was like a Johnny Carson
or a knockoff Johnny Carson was uhhe was. It sounded like he was
saying things that kind of pissed himoff about the whole um project, the

(25:22):
whole thing he was involved with,where he was like, uh this,
you know, they they are changingthings, they are doing stuff that is
not what we found or the reportsand stuff we're not you know, adding
up to what was experienced, thingslike that. So it does seem like
he was a little more loose aboutwhat he was saying that that later stuff.

(25:45):
I I like Derek's response because Ican also see the military assigning it
to somebody who did not want todo it. It was like, this
is a bum this is a bumthing. I'll do whatever I need to
do to get through the years ofdoing it and then I'm you know,
this is a means to and Ican move on to something else afterwards,

(26:07):
and just did not take it seriouslynor cared about it. Um, Yeah,
I'm sorry, go ahead, justno that and Heinich being like towing
the line at the beginning is alsosomething I can totally see because I think
it is the swamp gas thing thatthat he like claimed like later that he

(26:29):
hated the fact that he had tosay that. What was he the one
that was like, the military haslike a list of stuff that they just
say things are like balloons, swampgas, atmospheric conditions. Right, yeah,
um words a couple of times store. Yes, I've told you both

(26:55):
this story and I've brought up before. Um my family members of mine have
been in the military. My grandfatherwas a Navy officer for years. And
when I vaguely brought up years agothat I saw something in the sky,
his response was immediately like, oh, you must see in a rocket launch
or something. I'm like, there'sno, there's no rockets around here.
That like, there's no launch pad. Oh it must have been a secret

(27:18):
one, okay whatever, And thenand then he's like, you you don't
know what you saw, And Iwas like, I wasn't trying arms,
like, dude, I just sawsomething weird in the sky, and he
goes, it was probably swamp gas. I'm like, where I live in
Virginia seriously, and he goes,you don't know what you saw, don't
bring it up. You're gonna embarrassyourself. So he grew up a few
I mean, he was in themilitary a few years removed from Project Bluebook.

(27:41):
So I've never had the guts toask follow up questions on that one
because he was very like. Itwas one of those moments. I very
rarely have seen my grandfather be liketo the point on something, but that
was one of them. You thinkme the rest of the day. This
subject really gets under certain people.Again, you know, it makes people

(28:02):
feel really small, It makes peoplefeel insignificant. It's terrifying. You think
about wherever these things come from,the future, different dimensions, outer space.
Who the hell knows wherever it isthat makes them more powerful than we
are if they're able to travel hereand do all this stuff. So we're
just ants in an ant hill essentially. So I could see why people would

(28:23):
be upset talking about it. It'sa tough pill to swallow, not to
mention that other people have no problemdoing being just like ha ha, you're
stupid, which isn't as bad anymore. But I don't think back in the
day yeah, apparently back in theday it was a big deal. And
I even remember as a kid like, I've always been interested in this,
so if the subject would come up, I'd be like, oh, what's

(28:45):
going on over here? You know, a little kid under the under the
legs listening, and uh, it'sthe same thing. Back in the eighties.
It was ridicule. It was makingfun of people and yeah, oh,
how much did you have to drink? Or you know, something like
that. That came up a coupleof times in this documentary, like somebody
you know, literally some of thesewitnesses were like, well, what was
he on? Blah blah blah,and it's like, dude, there are

(29:08):
there are certain drugs that make youhallucinate, and not everybody has access.
Light is not one of them.But not locking up a big old dube
that doesn't do anything. Come on, I went there, I drink,
let me, I changed plenty ofbooze, and I can tell you that
that does not make you see anythingother than the floor a little quicker maybe,

(29:32):
and certain circumstances bingo or beauty whereit's not perhaps I don't know,
but um that speaking of drinking andthe eighties, Um rendalls from fourth incident.
I'm see because right there, becauseone it takes place in the eighties,
and two one of the excuses was, oh, everyone was freaking blitzed

(29:56):
out of their minds drunk from theChris Dude party while on duty. So
December twenty sixth of December twenty eighthof nineteen eighty eighty over in Rendelshom Forest
near Stafforshire, England. I'm notgonna get into it. I'm not going
to go into every single detail withthis because that's a podcast episode on its

(30:18):
own, which David, did youever kind of that? Yeah? Sorry,
it's one of those I was Iwas really thinking. I'm like,
I feel like I remember you talkingabout it, but we've had so many
conversations, and Derek, have youhad any reports of Rendelshom Forest activity recently?
I don't think, so I can'tcool, all right, cool?

(30:41):
So this whole thing takes place betweenRF Woodbridge and the US Air Force base
that's there as well. Basically,they see something. There's plenty of recording,
there's documentation of it, there's ahuge cover up that's being done,
there's memo there, there's a wholeton of stuff, and I just wanted

(31:03):
to go to you guys Derek firstwith this one, because I went David
last time, what are your thoughtson the Rendelsham forest incident as documented in
this documentary because there are stuff that'scome later that was not featured in this
documentary. Now, before I start, I'm getting older. But okay,

(31:25):
am I wrong? Justin have yousaid I'm gonna start with me like three
times in a row? Now,No, I went to David last time.
Okay, No, I'm joking.I'm trying to alter it. I'm
trying to alternate. Oh, youshould write you should write down whose turn
it is, because I think hekeeps skipping David. Um put put a
post a note over our picture onthe zoom. You know what I'm gonna

(31:47):
put it. I'm gonna put dfor um. Okay, So Rendelsham,
that's a crazy case. You know. There are two or two Air Force
bass that the English base and theAmerican base there, and one night something
weird showed up, and I thinkit showed up like three nights in a

(32:09):
row, and on the third nightit kind of landed in the woods between
the two and they went to investigating. Like Zenger said, there's recordings which
you hear in this documentary. Andsomething else I thought was really cool in
this documentary was the they reported divotsin the ground, three divots where something
had landed and presumably like a tripod, had come out and pushed holes in

(32:30):
the ground. So they casted thoseholes and you can actually see one of
them in this documentary. I thoughtthat was super cool. Um. I
know from other documentaries that they thatit was claimed that those were just rabbit
burrows. I've seen it was perfectlyperfectly symmetrical in like how they were divvied
up, but the rabbit. Rabbitburrows also go down into the ground so

(32:53):
that the rabbit could actually get intoit. These divots were like a popcorn
bowl or something or pie possibly inOregon. Urgin Um David going to you
thoughts on Rendall SHOWM and and thethe the British Roswell. I remember covering

(33:19):
this in a in an episode,and it's been years, like five to
six plus years, because Dave waswith me when we covered this. Um.
I remember after doing research on itthat I didn't believe a single thing
about it. Uh And I nowI can't remember why, but um,
I think One of the one ofthe things that got to me about it
was James Peniston's um. His histestimony about it changed a lot over the

(33:46):
years, and it got really weirdwith some of the um markings and the
language that he thought maybe was inthat like dreams or something was. Yeah,
there was like a tele knes nottell nisus of some sort images or
something. Yeah, something images thatcame to him. UM. Now that's

(34:07):
why I said it's portrayal in thisdocumentary. Yeah. Well, I mean,
yeah, exactly exactly. Everything looksstraightforward in this documentary. I mean
they present everything as almost as facthere. I do. I do appreciate
that he had everybody that was involvedin it talk in this because that's interesting

(34:27):
to me, you know it tohave the actual witnesses of these events UM
to talk about him and the lecturessome of the lectures or whatever that they've
given on it. There was footagefrom that UM as you said, he
showed the plaster cast, which healso said when he went around it he
didn't see any landing gear, butthen was like, here are the divots

(34:50):
in the ground from landing gear.I don't something like that, But so
I don't know what it could beif it if it's fake, Like why
did they all make recordings and makea big deal and to this day there
you know, they stick to theirstory and stuff. But at the same
time, there's a lot of um, a lot of information that has changed

(35:14):
and morphed over the years with it, which makes me kind of skeptical of
his story. But it's kind ofall how much sense does it make to
fake something like that? You know, you're on duty working for the military,
Like I mean, you get boredand have fun, But why stick
to it for so long? That'sthe other thing, Not just him like

(35:34):
he I think he went crazy withit, Peniston, Penis Ton, but
um, the other guys that areinvolved, why would they stick to it
and and be willing to talk aboutit on camera years and years and years
and years later? You know.That's that's the sticky point with it.
Sometimes people just get in too deepand they you know, you can't get

(35:55):
out. You just read the ride. So the things I've heard after the
fact, now because I said,none of this is brought up in this,
but on the more in depth stuffI've seen is he signed an NDA
and that that ran out. Yeah, so that that when that ran out,
he revealed more information, like hewas able to talk more about it,

(36:17):
and apparently there's another one he signedthat he can't talk about that stuff.
The stuff that gets me is thewhole it's not morrise code, it's
um oh, the language was um, it's whatever computer speak. Yeah,
but thank you, thank you.Um that that apparently there's a binary code

(36:39):
coordinates to Hyperzil or somewhere near wherehyperzil is allegedly at. But it's it's
one of those things that that partof it kind of makes me scratch my
head on why was that something?Because that that that comes up later on.
That's and I was looking to seewhen he brought that fourth I said,

(37:00):
I don't know. Obviously this thisgot ran up the chain too,
like this was something that that involvedlike Ministry of Defense getting involved all this
other stuff. So I mean,if it was a hoax, they took
it pretty dang seriously for a while. Plus, I mean, if it
was somebody hoaxing it, I don'tknow why you'd want to go hoaxing something
where there's people with guns who couldshoot you for trespassing very quickly. So

(37:27):
it's also it's also a possibility thatthis was some sort of military craft that
they were testing out or something,and these you know, guards just like,
oh, what's going on over there, and it just kind of stumbled
into it. So it's it's it'sthe need to know. They weren't in
the need to know. They werestill aren't yep, So that okay.
And there's also I also loved theexcuse that it was a antenna that was

(37:52):
on the coast, that was flashlighthouse was a lighthouse okay, yeah,
that I think in the recordings hetalks about like there's the lighthouse. Yeah,
and then he said it's moving referringto the object. Not Yeah.
They did say it was like it'scoming to write for us a couple of
times. So yeah, surprised theydidn't shoot. You know what, Maybe

(38:14):
it was the Maybe it was thelighthouse that took those three UM lighthouse keepers.
Hey, yeah, we're all forgettingwhat that is. But that came
yeah Island Moore, Elan Moore.Which is funny because real quick when I
was I visited the Isle of Skylast month and they had a map on

(38:40):
the wall of this UM this oneestablishment. I was looking at it and
right off the coast of one partof Isle of Sky. There was Island
Moore and I was like, what, I'm like, that were that close
to this thing? And I askedthe person who was running the place.
I was like, is this reallythe the island more like the one from

(39:04):
the Lighthouse story where the three andshe had no idea, like she didn't
cover up, but I was like, wait, okay, UM looked it
up and that the actual one fromthe story was way the hell away outer
hebrides like super far north Um.But they have two islands that were that

(39:27):
were not and it's just that's justthe name More Island. So like Roger
Moore or Michael Moore. I wasgonna say, is it a request more
More Island please? I mean,it's a tiny island. They need all
they can get. But no,I'm sorry. The only prescription is um.
Anyways, I thought i'd throw thatin there because it kind of uh

(39:51):
scared me from an I was like, we're gonna get disappeared. Um,
I can't segue to the next oneperfectly with that, you know what I
set the I set the bar toohigh with the last one. Japan japan
Airline Cargo Flight sixteen twenty eight incident. This took place in November seventeenth of

(40:13):
nineteen eighty six over the I thoughtthis was over like the Bay of Alaska
or like near the bottom of Alaska. No, this thing was flying straight
through Alaska apparently like this incident.So basically what happened on a Paris to
Tokyo flight Giant, This giant likeobject shows up and the sight inc last

(40:43):
for almost an hour of this giant, huge object following this plane through basically
the majority of the internal part ofAlaska, which, if you want me
to throw out something crazy real quick, Alaskan triangle that's straight through where that
is. And this huge object basicallyfollowed the plane during this time. And

(41:06):
this is the big plane because it'sone of the big like cargo planes,
and they were even like this thingthat was following us was huge. That
that's another one they go over inthat. This is one I remember as
a kid always seeing on documentaries andI was always like whoa, because like
the pilots came out and talked abouteverybody talked about it. I just always

(41:27):
thought it was like New or Alaska. I didn't realize they were like over
the state. So David. Yepis the d that was written on the
paper for this one. So Davidthoughts On nailed it. The the the
Japan Airline flight Cargo flight sixteen twentyeight. This one was new to me.

(41:49):
I hadn't heard about this one.Yeah, so I thought it was
very compelling. I have nothing toadd to it. I don't know anything
more about it than what was inthere, and I thought that was very
interesting. Derek, go ahead.My favorite part about this case is the

(42:09):
radar, the radar hits. Theyhad this thing on radar, I'm pretty
sure confirming the size. You know, this was a beast of a craft.
And anytime you have that validation,you have a pilot that sees it,
and you have radar on the groundthat sees it, it's meaningful.
It doesn't mean it's a space alien, but it's meaningful. Means something's up

(42:31):
there, is what it means.Yeah. The recordings that they had of
it were super interesting, right,Yeah, very difficult to hear, but
super interesting. Why is it alwaysso hard to hear those Like, if
you're an air traffic controller, areyou just trained to pick voices out of
static? Or every time you hearone of those recordings. It's just the

(42:52):
worst quality imaginable. You know whatit is. Have you ever been to
an airport? The audio, theaudio there is terrible welcome. Right,
you got a point right now,please stand by for an important announcement,

(43:15):
last barning call for fight three outnine to Oh. It was a cargo
plane, right, there was likea t X plane or something that.
No, you know what, theywere hauling wine? They were they were
they were hauling wine because you canget a butt of wine, so they
were literally hauling ass. So soI guess if we're going with the whole

(43:40):
conspiracy theory on this one, theywere drinking the supply. That's why they
saw it. Nailed it, nailedit perfect Um No, I mean we
got Zinger, Yeah exactly. Isolved this one. It was the wine
fumes leaking out the Merry Celeste ofthe ass. But I think one of

(44:02):
the like it was solved was likethey said, it was like plankton or
something that ear doesn't plankton that wasreflecting off the ocean or something. Yeah,
exactly. It's one of those like, oh, well, you know
it, Alaska has just weird stuffhappening, and it who cares about radar.

(44:27):
It's like if I'm flying in something, I really like to know my
radars like being responsive to what's aroundme. Because I mean, it's it's
one of those crazy things. Isaid, it's weird. It's one that
I've seen a few times, andit's the shape of it. It looks
like Saturn. Basically, it's likethis giant ball ball with us with a

(44:51):
like ring around. It's just likePlankton, exactly like Plankton, just like
playing ear ear doesn't playing Um.The next thing I have before get into
another photo and some final things.Does Anderson Cooper age Derek like a fine

(45:12):
wine? I doubt it doesn't looklike a butt of wine. I mean
was twelve, thirteen years old,and he looked exactly the same, exactly
the same, exactly the same.Because that's my first thing. I was
like, wait, what Anderson Cooperdoesn't age terrified? He's got them that
that Vanderbilt family Suspenderbilt jeans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, money does that.

(45:37):
Money does do that. I don'thave any money, but I know
people to do and they look likethey're thirty years old and I'm just forty
wood Um sorry, I just Iwhen I was taking notes. That was
one of my notes was does AndersonCooper age? There was another one.

(45:58):
I'm like, Larry King's been oldforever too, but he's dead, right.
I was about to say he dieda few years ago, but man,
he had that look for a while. He had that look for a
while, like like Anderson Cooper justisn't aging. Larry King has been old
forever. Larry King was old andGhostbusters if you remember his cameo and that

(46:20):
one hundred years ago, he wasold. Yeah, quick, quick,
Larry Larry King's story if if Imay, Oh god, I think I've
heard this before. Do it?Oh please do it? Oh well,
now I feel pressured. I haven'theard of stories that good. Um No.
Used to live by a CVS inLa and I just went in there
one day to pick up some beer, probably some wine actually, and literally
ran right into Larry King. Weboth came around the aisle. I'm like,

(46:43):
oh, Larry King, and hejust did not he was not interested.
He just get going. But Iran into Larry King. It would
have been better if he went,oh, Derrik Hayes and then he's been
much better, terrified, but muchbetter. Just no, no moreer action
just he said, you said hisname, he said yours. He just
walks off. But also, um, I need to talk about today's sponsor

(47:05):
box of wine. It's not justfor prison anymore. The next side down
I want to go over, Umis this Lagradkota photo. It's the photo
that was like taken from a surveillancelike plane. Oh and once again we

(47:29):
got a pipe tin flying through theair. At least they're consistent, and
it's was taken um near coast.I think it was Costa Rica. But
it's just this weird, like basicground shot and then there's a random silver
dish just sit there. It's likeGoogle if Google Maps had taken this photo

(47:52):
and you found found the something.It doesn't look like a UFO to me.
That that's just me personally. Itjust kind of looks like a mistake
or a smudge or something. Theedges are very defined, but it still
doesn't look like it's part of thephotography. In my opinion, there's something
off about it, and I don'tknow what it is. See, I
thought this was a different photo becausethere were somebody I was talking about a

(48:15):
very compelling photo that was taken fromlike one of these, and I found
out right before we recorded. Itwas a completely different photo. But I'm
like, nope, I put itdown. It's noted. You know what.
You watch enough UFO documentaries and listento enough podcast they all blend into
you're gone crazy, you're very curethe choir man. That is true.

(48:37):
But no, I mean this issomething. I mean, it would be
interesting. I know there's weird stuffon Google Earth that people find, I
mean the ones that, of coursegovernment didn't scrub away. But no,
I mean I just thought this onewas cool and I wanted to bring it
up. It's not the most Ifyou showed me this first, I'd be
like, okay, everything I wasgoing to show me now it looks fake.

(48:59):
But since this was later on,this one's compelling, but not as
compelling. Well, if there werereports of somebody seeing this object and they
cut it on the photograph, thatwould be a lot more compelling to me.
I also, there's another one.I was wondering about the shutter speed
for on those types of things.It's gotta I would assume it's probably pretty
good. If you're mapping from aplane, um that probably the speed would

(49:22):
be good enough to cut down onblurs. So there is that, but
I did it did make me question? Well, I said, it took
a picture every seventeen seconds, Ibelieve, and it was flying high altitude,
probably with sixty thousand feet or somethinglike that, something like that.
Pretty high. Um, I couldjust get the photo. There wasn't very
much backstory from when I looked upon it. Um, I wasn't familiar

(49:44):
with this picture. By the way, I've never seen this either. I'll
send you guys the picture I thoughtit was gonna be and yeah, all
I said. I was really disappointedus. No, no, this is
completely separate from the record. I'llsay it you guys, because it I
said. The one I heard,I was like, oh man, that's
really compelling. And then I sawand I was like, oh wait,

(50:05):
it's completely different photo. Whoops,it's actually a still shot from uh,
what's a movie with the Aliens?Tim Burton Mars attacks. Yeah. Ruined
my own joke with my bad memory. Yeah, um yeah. I mean
there is a lot of other photosthey show in this one. There's one
that's was It was taken near Vancouverand I don't remember what it was.

(50:29):
It was like a beautiful scenic photoof a mountain and then a ufo up
in the corner like if if nothingelse, this is a great lesson and
how people could actually use cameras backin the day. But another one that's
I guess if we want to goto We got some blurry photos coming up.

(50:50):
The Belgian ufo wave that took placeduring November of nineteen eighty nine,
which is kind of said to besimilar in regards because it was a giant
triangle or a larger triangle to acourse connecting back to the Phoenix lights.
We got that iconic image of thatweird triangular um ufo up in the sky

(51:16):
that they showed a few times,and they had a few people that they
interviewed, and I thought that wasvery cool that they went out and talked
to people on the street in Itwas in France, but near Belgium.
Um, going back to David forthis one. Yeah, back to David,
Um, what are your thoughts onthis Belgian wave in this very blurry

(51:39):
photo, it's about the same asthe others. It's it's it's interesting.
I don't I don't know if it'sas interesting as the Japanese one, but
you know, it's it's it's wild, and I'm like, you, I
really appreciate that he talks to somany different people, gets a lot of

(52:01):
different opinions on it, and thepeople that were involved as well talking about
it, and you know, it'sinteresting that they're like, I can't speak
for this, and then the guy'slike, well, what advice would you
give the US government for the sortAnd he's like, I don't know.
I'm I'm not in any position togive advice to the government. What are

(52:22):
you talking about? Run, Derek, your your your thoughts on the Belgian
wave? Well, you know,it's funny. The thing about that flap
is it's pretty identical to Southern Illinoisblack triangle flap the Phoenix Lights, which
wasn't a triangle, but it waslike that delta wing shape, boomerang shape.

(52:45):
The Hudson Valley. UFO wanted tobe a triangle, which they briefly
touched on in this documentary. Andyou know, I obviously receive a ton
of UFOE calls and I would sayseventy or black triangle raft that people see
and I'm at the point now wherethis is most certainly some sort of government
vehicle, some sort of government craftthat I think it's some sort of high

(53:09):
speed balloon or something along those lines, which sounds counterintuitive, but I think
that's what it is because people ithovers, It hovers, uh silently.
You know it's there. It justsneaks up on people and then gone,
like in a flash. So inorder for a balloon to take off like

(53:29):
that, that's so you're saying,it's all pops. Yeah. Yeah,
A guy reaches out the back popsit speaking. Um No, I mean,
it's like I said, the photosweird. There is a lot of
correlation with other stuff. We don'thave a pie ten this time though,

(53:52):
but we'll take what we can get. Um. This entire documentary was vaguely
based around the National Press Club's UFOconference they did in two thousand and seven.
Yes, yes, there was,there was a lot of that.
Bill Burns from History Channel makes anappearance to ask a question. He did
not have his iconic hat and glasses. I didn't recognize him at first,

(54:15):
I did. I did like howhe was. He was like a reporter.
He's like Bill Burn's History Channel,Great channel. Like is that a
legitimate news sorcer? I mean,now it would be suclos and and he
would stand up and everyone be blockedby his hair. But but still,

(54:35):
I mean it was just funny becauseI'm like, I remember that that was
the time he was starting to likepeek into like the UFO Hunters and and
all that stuff was about to burstforth onto the world. So it was
just cool to see see him inthis because I was like, oh,
hey, it's Bill Burn. Coolum, But no, I mean it's
it's cool because they had all thesepeople there. They talked about like the

(54:57):
government obviously knows something. What's thegovernment doing? And even though it's several
years later, I'm gonna say there'sa vague connection between all these questions being
asked here and what gets revealed withTo the Stars Academy and these this soft
disclosure we're currently in. I thinkstill are we still currently in? It

(55:20):
is? It's still going on.There's just a new report last week.
Yeah, I covered it on thisweek's show. Okay, I really think
they could just pull the plug orpull the ripcord maybe and people will be
fine. We're Also that I wastalking about on the episode actually was how
boring these reports are and how they'reessentially not telling us anything, show us
something. Well, the audios outthere. I brought up all these,

(55:45):
brought all these star attention. Ifjust one of these had a report link
to it that the government released,here's what we actually found, here's the
truth behind that incident, that wouldbe something once again. I God,
I think I'm going three for threeright now with this of I want to
be in a room with some guysmoking a cigarette that throws a file down

(56:07):
in front of me and like photosand documentation stuff spills out and he's like,
there's everything you need to know aboutthe incident, and I just get
to look at it in one andthen he and then he walks out and
he tells the guard kill him.I mean, is anyone else not excited

(56:30):
to look at micro feash and seewhat really happened? I don't trust it
to be real. That's the thing. Like that's also the problem with this
government stuff. Everything I read I'mextremely skeptical of. So there's no fun
in it, honestly. I meanthe go Fast and the gimbal video like
it's interesting, but it's one ofthose things like we've had those, and

(56:52):
those are like if this documentary wasmade now, that would be like the
headlining thing on it would be thatwe'd also have some interviews with Tom DeLong
and everyone else from to the StarsAcademy and everything, so that I said,
this is at a strange point wherewe're asking for where we were asking
for disclosure, Now that we existin the disclosure, we're kind of disappointed

(57:15):
with it or sorry, we're notdisappointing, we're just it's just not as
exciting as we thought. Yeah.I think they could literally just say,
hey, everybody, guess what aliensare here? They are here, they
have been. Here's one right now, and it's shifts in front of the
camera everything, and and people wouldbe like, oh, neat now I

(57:38):
gotta pay electricity, I gotta Igotta buy fifty dollars eggs, Like what
else is there? Oh man,Twitter's on fire again? Yeah, Like,
just tell people at this point thatalien took our job. Yeah.
I said that this was not thedocumentary I thought it was. But what

(57:59):
did you trick it was going tobe. I will discuss that later because
I don't know which one it is, and I have refused to look it
up because I'm going to be sodisappointed with myself when I find it.
I'm like, oh man, thiswas a good one. I'm not saying
this one was bad. It's justit covers a broad spectrum and I think
it does a good job bring allthese topics. And that's why I was

(58:21):
like, you know what, let'sjust bring these topics up. Let's have
us all discuss them and see whatwe just think about them. Something about
this film that I noticed and Iappreciate as a quote unquote filmmaker, Um,
this thing was filmed over like tenyears. If you notice the dates
on some of these clips, what'sthe astronauts? Gordon Cooper, Gordon Cooper,

(58:46):
thank you? The guy that waslike sad done knots said, that's
exactly right. He's talking slow hisentire life. I think because I keep
seeing older clips, I'm like,oh, he just got old. Older
people slow down when they speak.But now I think this guy spoke a
mile an hour from birth? Whatwas what was I getting? Oh?

(59:07):
Oh, the You could tell thathe filmed us over like a decade because
the Cooper clip was from ninety eightor something, and he had a Nick
Pope click that was from two thousandand eight. So there's a ten year
span just right there. And he'sin both of these shots, so you
know he's out there doing the fieldwork. He also flew all over the
damn world to do this documentary.He's spent a ton of money, in

(59:29):
a ton of time, and tonof effort on this thing. Yeah,
I did really appreciate that. Healso directed another one called Out of the
Blue, which was another documentary donein two thousand and three, and I
was reading somewhere I haven't seen Outof the Balloon forever, and that's not
the one I was thinking of forthis. But I think if I remember
correctly, it said that a lotof footage from that is reused in this

(59:52):
with like updated like stuff and everylike, like he updates like coverage and
stuff like that. So I meanit's obviously this was a passion project for
him and everything, which I mean, it's it's it's still compelling and it's
and it definitely is a snapshot ofa place and time in our in paranormal

(01:00:15):
culture. Yeah too, Like itis very interesting to go back and knowing
what we know now, I thinkit was cool to go back and take
a look at it. Um.I don't have a Rotten Tomatoes score for
this, It doesn't have one,so sorry. Um I ambb I AMDB
rating is seven point two. It'spretty good, it's not it's not bad

(01:00:36):
for a UFO documentary. Let's checkand see what Velma is at right now?
Or or have you guys not notnot watching the slow decline of that?
I'm not even is it the ScoobyDoo movie. No, it's the
Scooby Doo HBO show. That's apparentlypeople are very angry, not enough,

(01:00:58):
not enough enemy titties. I whoknows umo snacks? Okay. Velma is
currently sitting at a one point threeWOW rating. Go for it U thirty
thousand reviews. So on that note, um, I guess let's wrap this

(01:01:21):
up. We've had We've been thenights at the round table, Derek.
Where can people find more from you? You can find me anywhere you find
fine podcasts. Mine will also bethere. It's not a fine podcast,
but it'll be there too. Monstersamong Us podcast. It's a callin show
about monsters and aliens and ghosts andweird stuff. We release every Thursday.

(01:01:43):
And uh, yank you find meon social media as well? All right,
David? Where can people find morefrom you? You can find more
blurry photos, same places where monstersamong us can be found. I'm not
putting a lot out there these days. UM, but um, you can

(01:02:04):
also find me on a Hysteria fiftyone, UM and Quiz Quiz Bang Bang,
my trivia podcast. I'm doing morestuff with those of these days.
UM. Also audiobooks, just searchTom Lyons. I'll be there alongside Derek
and a lot of those. AndUM that's uh yeah, those are the
places you can find. Hum me, you just forget to plug that.

(01:02:27):
Um. You can of course findzignis where you find great podcasts, like
the two others mentioned that three fourothers mentioned. Sorry, there's so many
David, you're David, You're doingso many podcasts. Um, you can
find us where you find those greatpodcasts, well, where pop culture podcasts
or we cover everything in pop culture. So definitely check us out that zeng

(01:02:49):
this and uh, this has beenanother night at the round Table.