March 29, 2024 • 44 mins
David is joined once again by journalist, editor, producer, and author Laura Krantz to talk about her podcast Wild Thingand her newest book Is There Anybody Out There! Host of the serial podcast Wild Thing, Laura Krantz now has a second middle-grade book out. She joins David to discuss her latest book, Is There Anybody Out There, a look at extra-terrestrial life and the science behind finding it. Laura spoke to several experts in the field of physics and astronomy, as well as key politicians, believers, and related scientists in her journey to find what's going on with the search for life among the stars. Listen to David and Laura's conversation and grab a copy of her book after finishing an out of this world episode of Blurry Photos!
Get a copy HERE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Hello, and welcome to Blurry Photos. I'm David Flora, and I've got
a great interview for you today witha returning guest who's here to talk about
her newest book and real quick.In case you haven't heard, my films,
Shadows in the Desert is out nowon Apple, TV and Amazon.
You can search for the title onthose platforms and rent or buy it,
and if you like it, pleaseleave a positive review, at least on
(00:38):
Amazon. I'm not sure if Appledoes that or not, but it would
greatly help me and Derek. Andalso, if you're a backer for the
Kickstarter and haven't received your rewards yet, it might be because we haven't gotten
an address confirmation from you, soshoot me a message to let me know.
Best way would be the Blurry PhotosFacebook page so I see it quickly.
(00:58):
But you can also check out theKickstarter page for updates and such,
and I think you can send usa message on there anyway. Hope you
guys enjoy the film or have enjoyedit if you've watched it, It's nice
to finally have it out there inthe world. Now to the important stuff.
Journalist, editor, producer and authorLaura Krantz is back to talk about
(01:19):
her new book, Is There Anybodyout There? Laura as the creator and
host of wild Thing Podcast, along form narrative podcast about the obsessions that
capture our imaginations. She's produced threeseasons of the show, each focusing on
a different topic, including Bigfoot,UFOs, and nuclear power, and she
(01:42):
has parleyed these seasons into a bookseries for middle grade readers, starting with
the Search for Sasquatch and now withis There Anybody out There? Based on
her podcast's second season, looking atthe science behind the search for extraterrestrials.
She joins me to talk all aboutthe writing of this new book and her
(02:04):
experience of searching for the answer tothe question is There Anybody out There?
Enjoy She's the author of the newbook Is There Anybody out There? And
host of wild Thing Podcast. LauraKrantz. You're back. How are you
welcome back? I'm back. I'mexcited. What are we going to talk
(02:27):
about? Oh? I know whatwe're going to talk about. We're going
to talk about aliens. Aliens,aliens. Yeah, you're back to talk
the new book and a little biton season two of wild Thing Podcast,
which is all about aliens. Andtheir technology. So I listened to season
two and I was impressed with howmuch of a scientific approach you took to
the subject, because it's often thatwe get perspectives of very ardent believers in
(02:54):
extraterrestrial activity on Earth, but youtalk to several scientists of different specializations.
What was your goal in season two'sexploration. Yeah, so the goal with
both season two and with the bookwas same similar with season one of the
podcast, end with the book,which is like, take this topic which
(03:15):
has fascinated people and is something thatpeople are really really intrigued by, and
try and approach it from a scientificangle. So, if we are thinking
about alien life or extraterrestrial life,what kind of evidence, scientific evidence do
we have that would say that itis definitely out there or definitely not out
there, or maybe out there.And there's a lot of people who are
(03:38):
thinking about this from different perspectives.You know, you definitely have the ardent
believers who are yes, aliens havevisited, I have been probed. Let
me show you the scars all theway over to people at NASA who are
like, we just put this gianttelescope up in the sky and it is
taking pictures of things that are sofar away, and yet we are able
(04:00):
to kind of maybe get a senseof whether those faraway places could potentially support
life. So, you know,it's a wide range of topics, and
it's a wide range of people whoare thinking about these things, and I
just wanted to approach that from sortof a more serious perspective. I think
you accomplished that. Well, canyou give us a short rundown of some
(04:24):
of the folks you spoke to andtheir specialties and things like that. Yeah,
So the book starts with a mulamua, which was for anyone who's
unfamiliar, this interstellar object that passedthrough our solar system in twenty seventeen.
And I mean we almost missed thisthing. It was coming in super fast,
and it shot around the Sun andthen went right back out again.
(04:46):
So it was if someone hadn't beenreally paying close attention to the photos that
were coming out of the various ina sort of observatories, we might have
missed it entirely. And for justto start like it is to me it
was just so cool that this thingis coming through our solar system and at
the moment where we finally have thetools to recognize something like this, to
(05:09):
recognize the speed, the trajectory,the fact that it's moving so fast that
it wasn't bound to an orbit aroundour Sun, which meant it came from
outside our solar system. Like thatwas really cool. I know that it
was not the first one. Thereprobably been lots, but it was the
first one that we really recognized,which I thought was amazing. So I
ended up talking to, you know, the astronomer who discovered it, or
(05:31):
found the you know, was lookingthrough the photos and saw it. I
ended up talking to doctor Auvi Loeb, who was the Harvard astrophysicist, who
basically said, hey, let's notrule out the possibility of alien technology.
Maybe this is something like a lightsale. Then you start getting into questions
of like, okay, well whatdoes extraterrestrial life look like? And then
(05:55):
that just leads you to the questionof what is life? And we actually
don't know what I mean, thisis a big philosophical question. We don't
know what life is like we recognizeit. It's like that famous quote from
the Supreme Court, Whi's like youknow, you know pornography when you see
it, It's like, we know, we know life when we see it,
but we don't really know how itarises, what are all the important
(06:17):
things that make it up. Wehave an idea of what it does,
of how it acts, but whatis it? And so and you know,
I'm talking to astrobiologists from SETI andI'm talking to planetary geologists about like
the different aspects of planets that youknow, what or what elements of planets
(06:39):
we think would be habitable for life. And it just it kind of was
like I would ask one question andthere'd be more questions and more questions and
more questions, and it you know, it was a lot of fun,
but it was a lot of questions. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's
very interesting how a lot of topics, not just paranormal extraterrestrial, but also
(07:01):
the arts, even economies and thingskind of when you boil them down way
past the point that you filled thebucket, you are kind of left with
the philosophy of everything, and you'realways coming back to like why or what
is or here's all these questions wecan't answer, but for some reason we
(07:24):
have all these systems in place.I think that's fun as well, the
just getting down to the philosophy ofit. Yeah, And there's an element
too of like we don't know,and I think as humans we're not always
comfortable in that gray area, thatidea of like, well, we don't
really have the answers for this,so we're just going to kind of keep
probing, not literally probing, maybeliterally probing, but like trying to,
(07:46):
you know, figure things out.But we're kind of operating in the dark
to some degree. I can't rememberwho the interview was with, and it'll
come back to me after this conversationis finished and then I'll email you.
But it was with a scientist andsomeone kept asking him why certain things about
the universe and he's like, youknow, I can only answer that so
(08:07):
much, and then eventually there's anthere there is no answer. We don't
know why. We're still trying tofigure that out. And if the scientists
are saying that, you know,they are also they also have to be
comfortable operating in that gray area andtrying to figure out answers to things,
and maybe the path they've chosen takesthem in the wrong direction, but maybe
(08:28):
not. Yeah, And that's ascomfortable as you can operate in the unknown,
I think, and part of thereason why I think people are listening
to this right now and the reasonI try to delve into these topics,
it's you try to get as closeto why as possible, not only but
is the journey fund but you know, you learn enough to move that dial
(08:48):
a little bit towards what, thewhy and the answers. But yeah,
that's interesting. That's something I'll circleback to in a few questions actually speaking
of whys. But I would alsolike to point out that you make the
point early on that it's hard tofind tech over vast distances, and this
(09:09):
ties in with what you're saying aboutomumuh and how we barely you know,
caught that as it came by whatelse you know? Have we missed?
What do we not know that wedon't know? And you talk about how
small the window is for when wecould detect actual signals from another civilization and
vice versa. First of all,let's talk about why that is, and
(09:33):
then I'll follow up with another questionfor you. Yeah. So, one
of my favorite interviews that I didfor this podcast and then that information also
made it into the book, waswith doctor Frank Drake, who is,
you know, sort of a foundationalfigure in the search for extraterrestrial life.
He created what's known as the Drakeequation. And there's all these different variables
(09:54):
in that equation. You know,the rate at which stars form, and
the stars that have planets around them, planets that are habitable, on and
on and on and on. Andone of the last variables is a question
of like would a technolog or awhat does civilization have a technology that is
findable and the time period that thatis findable. And the example he uses
(10:16):
is of Earth like for a longtime, not even that long, not
even one hundred years really at thispoint, right you know, radar,
we've had radar, we've had radio, we've had broadcast, and those signals
are getting blasted out into the universe, intentionally or not. But as we
switch to different forms of communication,as we get away from broadcasts, as
(10:39):
we you know, things are goingmore through cables and fiber optics, that
signal that we have been projecting outinto the universe is going away. And
his thought was that other civilizations,if they are as advanced or more advanced
than we are, are probably alsogetting quieter, which means that they are
(11:01):
going to be harder to find,which he seemed a little sad about this,
and I can understand that, likeyou've sort of he's really been focused
on radio telescopes and radio signals forhe was focused on that for the most
of his career, and then torealize that that technology actually wasn't the cutting
(11:22):
edge anymore and was going away,like and then it's like, well,
now how do we look? SoYeah, that was a really interesting conversation
with him. Yeah, it's sucha small window, especially if you're talking
one hundred years. You know,that's that isn't faster than a blink of
an eye in the universe perspective.Yeah, and you know, as those
signals move further out, they getdiluted to not as noticeable, so you
(11:48):
know, they're harder and harder tofind. So by the time they reach
a place where we could observe them, or some other civilization could observe ours,
they might be so deluded that theydon't even register it. They're not
even a blip. I wonder ifthat ever degrades on its journey as well,
you know, if it when youget so far apart from I don't
(12:11):
I'm just trying to visualize it,and I don't know what I'm talking about.
So you know it's gonna be thisis going to be great to listen
to. But well, radio isa form of light, and light as
it gets further and further away fromthe source just becomes more diffuse. So
I would imagine that radio is thesame way. Yeah. Yeah, I
am also not a scientist, socorrect me if I'm wrong, But that
that makes sense to me. Andthat's another thing I'm gonna speak about after
(12:35):
this, but the light and itsproperties. But you mentioned Frank finding that
or seemingly finding that disappointing. Doyou find it disappointing as well? Kind
of? I mean, you know, that was just one avenue for which
we were exploring this this or whichwe were trying to conduct this search.
(12:56):
And I think that as that hasfallen away as being a leading way of
doing this, there are other thingsthat are coming online. And I'm thinking
specifically of the breakthrough projects that arehappening. These are projects that were founded
by a Russian billionaire or e.Milner, And you know, one of
them involves radio telescopes still and it'sradio telescopes all over the world and reporting
(13:20):
information to a central database. Sorather than just having one or two that's
pulling in information. You've got themall over the place. There's also you
know, optical telescopes have become muchmuch better than they used to be,
and we also have space telescopes wherewe can get more information about what kinds
of planets might be habitable and whatstars have planets rotating around them, and
(13:41):
sort of that Goldilocks zone as wecall it, like the right distance from
the Sun so you're not getting friedor frozen. And then you know,
there's this really cool one called breakthroughstarshot and it I mean, this is
like straight out of science fiction.But the idea that we would build this
bank of lasers on on the ground, extremely powerful lasers that we could then
(14:03):
focus on a light sale that getslaunched from a satellite above orbiting around Earth.
It would put out all of theselittle probes that have light sales,
and then we would shoot those probesat you know, a decent fraction of
the speed of light twenty percent thespeed of light in the direction of any
potentially habitable planets that are within twentylight years of Earth. And the reason
(14:26):
they pick twenty light years is oneit might actually get there in someone's lifespan
and two like beyond that, it'sreally hard to know what's going on.
But for instance, we could sendone of those to Proxima Centari, which
is the next closest star system toEarth. It's four point two light years
away, which with our current technologywould take us thousands and thousands and thousands
(14:50):
and thousands and thousands and thousands ofyears to get there. But with this
breakthrough starshot stuff would take twenty whichis kind of awesome. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it's mind blowing. Sowhile the radio stuff is sort of
falling off to some degree, thereare other things that are coming online that
might give us the answers we're lookingfor. That's a that's a great perspective
(15:11):
on it. It's it's optimistic,which I like. Yeah, I mean,
I'm not saying we're going to belike sharing lattes with the people from
gg b X two dot seven,but you never know, yeah they yeah,
but we'll get there now. That'sthat's really cool. And that was
(15:33):
the distance thing always just blows mymind. And you had that as well.
When you when you put it inperspectives, we can see and understand,
like when you've visited. Was ityou see Boulder? Yeah, University
of Colorado, Boulder. They havea scale map of the Solar System,
(15:54):
and I forget what the scale is. It's very small and it's roughly over
you know, you you cover thedistance the Solar System within a third of
a mile. So you start atthe Sun and then you walk out to
Pluto, which shows you how oldthis scale map is. Because Pluto rip
no longer a planet. I've hadpeople get very angry when I've said that.
(16:15):
They're like, Pluto's sell a planet. I'm like, it's not.
Don't mess up midemotic, don't shootthe messenger. But when you put it
in that perspective, the farthest thathumans, like actual physical humans have gotten
is from Earth to the Moon,which on this scale map is like a
(16:37):
quarter of an inch. Yeah,it's not far, and then you know
you still have like almost a thirdof a mile to go to get to
Pluto. Like it just yeah,it's crazy. I don't And from the
Earth to the Moon, I don'tthink people understand the distance there either.
I have heard that you could fitall the rest of the planets in between
(16:57):
the Earth and the Moon and therewould be it could do it over.
Maybe I don't true, I've notheard that one, but I mean it's
two hundred and thirty odd thousand miles, I think, yeah, which is
that signific? That's a road trip, my friends. And maybe maybe it's
you know, maybe I'm getting thatwrong because Jupiter seems like it would you
(17:18):
know, it could be like holdmy beer. But anyways, I don't
know. You hear a lot aboutstuff, but it boils down to space
being big. Yeah. But therewas one guy I talked to who he's
a guy who actually walked me throughthis solar system model, and he's like,
space is a perfect name for spacebecause it's mostly space. That's what
(17:41):
we got. Yeah. So goingback to the thing about radio waves just
being a form of light, oneof the experts you talk to explain that
everything gives off light to some capacity. Had you heard that before? I
had not, or if I had, it had not stuck. But like
his explanation of it was so good, and all of a sudden, I'm
(18:04):
like, oh, this just there'ssometimes I really want to go back and
like redo like junior high and highschool science. Knowing what I know now
and knowing how this applies to thereal world because I feel like you're just
operating in a total vacuum. Atthat point, there were a few smart
science kids and the rest of uswere like bo And now I just feel
(18:26):
like I would have gotten a lotmore out of those lessons. But yeah,
learning that you are giving off formsof light in you know, it's
not just optical light, which isus seeing each other. It's like infrared
and UV and gamma and radio andmicrowave, and all of a sudden things
start to make a little bit moresense. I'm no, by no means
(18:47):
a genius on this stuff, andI probably get it wrong all the time,
but I feel like I have.It's like someone opened a door and
unveil the secret world that I hadnot been part of it before? Is
this what being a Mason is?Like? Yeah? So what so with
that in mind, what what doyou think the implication is for extraterrestrial life
(19:10):
or their tech? Knowing that,I mean, I think there is probably
extraterrestrial life out there. I'm almostcertain that there's microbial just based on what
we know about microbial life on Earthand where it can live, and like
the incredibly like harsh climates that itcan exist in advanced extraterrestrial life. I
(19:33):
don't know. I'd like to hope. So, you know, if we
evolved from microbes, it would standa reason that that would happen in other
places. The question is is whathappens after that evolution. There are these
theories about like you know, speciescan only get so technologically advanced before it
wipes itself out. The great filter, I think, is what that theory
(19:56):
is coming back to FI. Yeah, and it's like, you know,
did they blow themselves up in anuclear explosion? Did they poison their own
atmosphere? Like all of the thingsthat I think we think about, and
there's probably like millions of other horribleways to die. Did their sun explode
right, geez, a rogue blackblack hole? Yeah? Were they swallowed
by a black hole? Did theirplanet turn to done and everyone got eaten
(20:17):
by those sandworms? Yeah? Younever know. Do we have to take
the gomb jabar at some point?That's what we need to know. But
yeah, I like to think somethingwill be out there. The question is
is are we ever going to crosspaths with it? Yeah? And I
think that's what this whole project,like the immensity of space just kind of
(20:41):
blew my mind when you're looking atphotos from the James web Space Telescope and
there's that one of all those likeit's a sort of a copy of what
was shot by Hubble years and yearsago, of all these distant it looks
like stars, And then you realizethose are galaxies, and then you really
that that is the like it's likethe tip of your finger held out at
(21:04):
arm's length. That's the section ofthe night sky you're looking at. And
then your mind is just blown andyou kind of have to come to terms
with how small and insignificant you are, and the likelihood of meeting someone else
seems pretty small and unlikely. Yeah, I feel like when they keep zooming
out in those pictures and they showthe universe and like the Virgo supercluster and
(21:30):
they keep going, you know,and it's all purply and sparkly and stuff.
But why when they zoom they keepzooming out on those Theoretically, you
know, to me, it lookslike the X ray of like the inside
of a rock or something like,Yeah, are we just like atoms in
a system at this point? Youknow, And it just keeps getting smaller
and smaller the further down you goand and when you you know, zoom
(21:53):
it out. We're we're just somekind of a little beyond microscopic things in
a in a rock. Yeah.No, you kind of have to wonder
like, is it just like howhow many layers to the future are there?
Exactly? And there's probably no answerto that. There's probably infinite layers,
you know. That's the rust I. Yeah, back to that gray
(22:17):
area that we just kind of haveto hang out in and then be comfortable
in. We'll take a quick breakand be right back for more with Laura
Krantz. You spoke to a fellowby the name of Pete who talked about
the government asking for about twenty twomillion dollars for a research program into UAPs
(22:37):
and ets, and I think Petesaid, if the government knew we had
aliens, they'd probably ask for morethan twenty two million. What do you
think of it? Ceze million doesn'tbuy shit, Like, I mean,
they lose They lost that the otherday with that F thirty five bomber,
that just the stealth bomber, likethe guy that was so stealthy they could
(23:00):
they were like where did it go? Like that's twenty two million dollar probably
more. Actually, Yeah, sotwenty two millillion does not seem like a
lot of money in the grand Imean, I'll take twenty two million.
If they want to like hand thatoff to me, I will, and
I'll share some with you. Ohwow, that's generous. Thank you.
I know, I'm very I'm verygenerous. But that's why we're not already
millionaires. That's what I tell myselfanyway. Yeah, but I think if
(23:26):
they were actually really out there lookingfor aliens, it would be a lot
more money. So if they hadthem here, then they you know,
somebody could could confirm that they hadmaybe you know, ten people, the
ten people on Earth who were privyto this information or something. What would
they I don't I guess if they'reasking for more money, it's to either
(23:48):
try and reverse engineer what they foundor look for more. Like you said,
what do you what do you thinkthey do with that? Or how
much would they would they want beingto it? Yeah? I would put
the money in the one hundred millions, if not into the billions. If
they actually had proof of extraterrestrial advancedextraterrestrial life, I think there would be
(24:11):
a big, big, big fundgoing on there I also think it would
be more than ten people that wouldknow about it. I mean, look,
how many people were involved in thecreation of the atom bomb. Like,
I feel like this is a muchmuch bigger project than that. But
I think reverse engineering trying to figureout, like, you know, are
the elements that are in these typesof things the same sorts of elements that
you're finding on Earth? Are theysomething entirely different? Like you would have
(24:33):
a lot of scientists involved in this. I have a feeling, And then
I don't know. There's always peoplewho are claiming that there's bodies with this
stuff, but honestly, sending livingcreatures through space unless they have figured out
how to go to speed a light, and even if they have figured out
how to go to speed a light, like, you have to go long
(24:55):
distances and you have to keep somethingalive, and life support systems are no
joke. You're better off sent inrobots. They don't have to poop,
they don't get bored, they don'tmurder their or stab their colleagues for revealing
the end of a book that theywere in the middle of reading. Did
you hear about this story? Uh? No, this was in the Antarctic
(25:17):
station. Oh, they were winteringover and one of the one guy was
reading a book and the other onewas like, he just told him how
it ended, and so he gotstabbed and then they had to like get
them out of there. That isfamiliar. I thought you made a robot
stabbed a human spoil you know,Hunger Games or whatever, Like, I
(25:37):
can't believe you told me the end. That's great, I mean it's not.
But the thought of aliens or robotaliens stab at each other because you
know spoilers. How you dare?How dare you tell me how the Foundation
trilogy? And asshole? I amreading the secret I am putting out optimism
(26:00):
into the universe. So it wouldhave to be some kind of like interdimensional
thing or something like to get fromhere to here and be fine, Like
it'd have to be like, youknow, kind of a teleportation thing more
than physical flying through space, rightlike, which you know it's not impossible
(26:22):
with the math. I think Idon't know about the math. I'm not
really good with the math. Idon't think I want to go back and
take math again. But you know, I think there are some questions about
before we can talk about how thingsare acting in other dimensions. We have
to figure out if there are otherdimensions, and that, yeah, that
is true. Is the sort ofthe step ladder of science, right right,
(26:45):
Yeah, that and this is somethingI'm going to bring up here in
a little bit too. But justmore speculation to this stuff. And that's
I think that's inherent with living inthe gray area that we're talking about.
But I did think it was aninteresting point that he may about the money
unless they are there's always people whothink there are black programs, you know,
(27:06):
dark dark money going into things thatnobody knows about. And maybe they're
you know, because the defense budgetit just itself for the United States is
ridiculously huge, so who you know, nobody's keeping track of every single sent
No, obviously, like look athow much we spend on toilets in Iraq.
(27:29):
But I think we're keeping better trackof funds than we say we are.
Like, the money is not infinite, right, and it does come
from taxes, and it does comefrom appropriations, and there are some there
is some accountability. It's not great, it could be better, but it
is also not like the military hasinfinite resources to get whatever it needs whenever
(27:52):
it wants. It however, likeit also has to go through channels.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thatthat's true. And yeah, these days
you don't know what they're doing forshow and what they're you know, I
don't know. But it does seemlike we're moving towards more acceptance of studying
this, which is nice, whichI think gets back to the point about
(28:15):
you know, you were asking aboutFrank Frank Drake and like, do I
feel sad that that channel for lookingis disappearing? And part of the reason
I'm also optimistic is because the searchfor extraterrestrial life has become a more mainstream
science. For a long time,it was pushed to the side. In
(28:37):
nineteen ninety four, there was asenator from Nevada who had like all NASAs
extraterrestrial like SETI researched like he wasbasically like, you can't have any money
for this at all, stripped itout of the budget, basically just like
cut NASA off at the knees onresearching this kind of stuff. Yeah,
and that you know, it's alwaysa risk, Congress is what it is.
(29:02):
But I think the overall acceptance forlooking for these kinds of things,
for searching for life or thinking aboutit in sort of the grand scheme of
like where can life be? Whatdoes it look like? Is it my
crobial? Is a big brain likethat has become more widely accepted. Yeah,
yeah, which is good. Andthat senator was not Harry would Read.
(29:22):
He's no, that was. Itwas Richard Bryan. Richard Bryant.
I think or I might have thefirst name wrong because Harry Read's been a
big supporter of it. In fact, yeah, Harry Red was. Yeah,
I did I have to go downto Vegas and hang out with the
old Harry. Yeah he was.He's interested, I mean he and I
think what I liked about talking tohim is he didn't have any answers.
(29:47):
He's not saying there's aliens out there. He's like, look, I've talked
to these people that I like andrespect and trust, and they've had weird
experiences. And these military people arereporting weird experiences. Let's take a little
pot of money and look into what'sgoing on here. Not a ton just
like two you know, let's askyeah, twenty two million, which you
know, throw it my way.I think that's a very pragmatic approach to
(30:10):
it, like why not? Yeah, especially if something of such implication,
right, if you have military pilotsreporting that they're seeing weird things in the
sky, don't ground them find outwhat they're seeing, right, Like,
don't pretend it's not there. That'sdumb. Yeah. Yeah, And this
is where you know, some folkswould spin off and say unless they know
(30:30):
what they're seeing, and they don'twant them to know. Well, and
you can go to any rabbit holeyou go down and go into conspiracy land.
It's just like keep your mind open, but as they say, not
so open that your thanks fall out. Yeah, not everything is a conspiracy.
That'll segue nicely into this next question. You spoke to a decent number
(30:51):
of folks who truly believe ets areeither among us or regularly visiting. Was
there any common factor in thought orwords or traits that you could tell that
these people shared the believers. Ididn't spend enough time with them to like
really get a sense of who theywere outside of this fascination. A lot
(31:11):
of are reported seeing the exact samething, like a cigar shaped object or
a silver disc like those, youknow, the descriptions were surprisingly uniform.
I don't know if that is becauseof what they're seeing is uniform or a
lack of imagination. I'm not entirelysure. Sure, most of them seemed
(31:32):
earnest, most of them, likeI didn't feel like there were a lot
of people who were faking it.There were a couple who I was like,
you're I feel like you're taking advantageof an interest in this to further
your own career. Some of theRoswell specialists, I felt that way a
little bit. But a lot ofthem have seen something weird that they can't
(31:55):
explain and they have questions about.And I think that that is a perfectly
reasonable place to come from for exploration. Sure, if it takes over your
life, if it keeps you fromyou know, having relationships and having a
job and being a functioning part ofsociety, then I start to wonder a
little bit about what's going on.Yeah, and if this is out of
(32:17):
our purview, you know, letme know. But do you would you
say that there's a need for themto believe or find these things true?
Was that a big factor in theirlives? You know? There have been
a couple of studies that have happenedrecently and Americans on the whole have become
much less religious and much more secular, and I do think that to some
(32:42):
degree, this idea of aliens,this idea of something that's out there that
might be here to help us,that might be looking out for us,
sort of fills that void. Ithink there is a spiritual element to it
for some people, or people arelooking for bigger meaning or feeling like they're
part of something large than just youknow, the day to day grind,
and I do think that that isan element of this for some people.
(33:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting,and I think that's a good perspective on
it too, is that there issome need to fill a part of something,
even if that means you are aninsignificant little spec I think, you
know, it's an interesting and thenthat gets into sociology and stuff I would
think, and psychology, and there'sall kinds of places you can go from
here, I think, with itand still stay in the science fields.
(33:30):
Yes, so we're still trying tofind out where this is circling back,
We're still trying to find out ifaliens are visiting us, and so it's
nothing but speculation to try and figureout why. Again, coming back to
that why for everything, But youknow, that's also arguably the most fun
(33:50):
part. Yeah, what all didyou hear from people on their speculations as
to why aliens Aliens are visiting us? Yeah, Oh, that's a tough
one because a lot of it boilsdown to people thinking that they're special and
they feel like they've had an experience, they've been visited, and this sort
of fits in with that religion stufftoo, as well as like you've had
(34:10):
a miracle or a visitation, oryou saw God or you know, the
light at the end of the tunnel. Like, there are some overlap here
in terms of the terminology and theway that it's discussed. Some of the
other arguments I heard is that youknow, they're coming to Earth to try
and keep us from blowing ourselves up. And actually, you know, this
(34:31):
is a huge theme in alien moviesin like the fifties and sixties, especially
in the wake of the atomic bomband all of the atomic testing. We
were doing this New Age stuff too. Yeah, there were all these movies
that were about you know, alienscoming and trying to stop us from hurting
ourselves and damage thereby damaging the galaxy. I didn't really hear any great explanations
(35:00):
or why they would be coming here. I mean, you know, if
there is advanced alien life out there, then it's not just us in them.
There are lots of places that theycould go. So it could be
that, you know, they're justvisiting Earth for a good time, or
were like zoo animals were like sobackward and unevolved and unsophisticated. That's kind
(35:23):
of like, you know, goingto see the monkeys at the zoo.
I don't I don't really buy theidea that they've been to Earth, So
it's hard for me to buy thereasoning for why they would come. The
other thing to think about is surealiens might have come to visit Earth.
They might have come when Earth waslike a mere one or one and a
(35:47):
half billion years old and been likethis place is covered with liquid hot magma.
Let's go hang out somewhere else,and they never came back again,
Like why would they only be comingin this very narrow time period where we
are? So yeah, yeah,again that's a that's a small window.
And boy, I've I've heard allkinds of stuff too. But and and
(36:10):
people said on on your podcast thatyou know, it could be violent.
They could come for resources to stripmind the planet. They that was Hawking.
That was Stephen Hawking that said thatone, like, don't you send
the messages out there? Come on? That's fair. It's a conservative take
on it, I think, avery kind of like cautious cautious, Yeah,
(36:35):
cautious take. But does that makesense to you for something to if
they have to physically travel that vastdistance, is it just for resources and
violence or would it make more senseto be scientific exploration or like what what
do you think? I would leanmore towards scientific explanation or tourisms. I
(37:00):
mean, I guess if they're ploppingfrom planet to the planet and using that
as the next space and strip miningall the resources before they move on to
the next planet. But I mean, I don't know what kind of ethos
that is, Yeah, although Iguess it's a human ethos, like let's
hop from place to place. It'snot like we have Yeah, And that's
part of I think why people havespeculated that before is because that's something we've
(37:24):
done before. So you know,who's to say that they wouldn't do it
as well and we would just belike cattle to them or whatever. But
I mean, obviously they're coming forhere for the cows, Like, think
about all the cows that they've beamedup over the years. That's the main
Yeah, like steak, they likea nice wag you and and again this
(37:44):
is just the fun part of it. It's all speculation. There's there's no
no telling well, and I thinkthe yeah, I think the cool part
of all of this is like,and part of the reason that I ended
up doing the book with for thekids, you know, the children,
is there's an element of wonder withall of this, and like the first
step of the scientific method is aska question, what are you wondering?
(38:07):
And to wonder is very human andI think it's something that children are really
good at and adults kind of phaseout of we already have our minds made
up, We've already come to ourdecisions. Yes, aliens are out there,
No they're not. But encouraging thatsense of wonder asking these questions,
like you're going to find to sortof approach the world from a standpoint of
(38:30):
like what if, I think isa really good way to not only understand
your world better, but understand thepeople around you better too, sort of
thinking about things from different perspectives,wondering what their lives might be, Like,
I just think wonder is so centralto being an engaged human, which
(38:52):
is part of the sense that Iwanted to create with both the podcast and
the book. That's great, youactually kind of answered the next question because
I was going to turn it backtowards this book like season one. You
turned this season into a book gearedtowards middle grade readers. And yeah,
I think you start at Wonder witha lot of things, and it leads
(39:13):
to critical thinking, It leads tomore empathy because you have those different perspectives.
You can think about things in differentangles, not just a rigid,
shut, closed minded process. Talkabout the book just a little more and
why what it might also be goodfor that age group and kids of all
ages, just besides that wonder aspect. Yeah, I think the wonder aspect
(39:37):
is a big part. I thinktoo, Like I remember learning about space
and sort of feeling like it wasthis cold, distant thing, which it
is. But what I wanted todo was sort of use that sense of
wonder to approach it in a waywhere it's like what we learn about in
space is also what we're learning abouthere on Earth, Like these things are
not separate. Space is not outthere and Earth is not here, like
(39:58):
we are part of a bigger system. Things that are happening here might be
happening on other planets. Like there'sjust all this cool stuff to learn about
that I think in some ways makesspace space more approachable in a way that
I did not feel as a kid. I just felt like it was it
was kind of you had no physicsand math and it just felt very off
(40:22):
putting. Yeah, for some reason, it's reminding me of the New Age
stuff again with the as above sobelow kind of thought that, you know,
the mantra that goes along with NewAge teachings and studies. It's it
is interesting to think about and makesit a little more I guess. I
(40:45):
don't know if personal is the rightword, but it brings it down to
you to where it's easier to understandand and to follow up on those questions
that you might have. I thinkit's it's a good, a good cool.
And you know, the book inparticular, the art again gorgeous.
(41:05):
I know, didn't he do agood job. He's so amazing, Raphael
Nobrae. You can follow him onInstagram. Actually, he's like he's so
good. He does all these coolillustrations. It's it's really neat seeing this
book and the Search for Sasquatch aswell, because it's very vibrant. The
colors, but they're in a theme, like there's a you can see a
color scheme with this, you cansee one with the other book and stuff.
(41:27):
I I appreciate those those types ofthings. But it's a great book.
So tell us where we can pickup a copy of this and find
wild Thing? Yeah, so wildThing is available wherever you get your podcasts.
I don't think there's any place whereit's not available. It's even on
YouTube all it's not it's just theaudio. Sorry, guys. I don't
(41:49):
have the skills to do video yet. Someday, someday I will. That
takes so much work, I know. And the book is available I think
pretty much all of the online placesthat you normally get books, and you
know, I'm trying to encourage independentbookstores to carry it. If you go
into your independent bookstore and you cannotfind it, please ask them to carry
it because that's great for me.And also, if you read it and
(42:12):
you like it, please leave mea review because that is really the best
way to get the word out forboth the podcast and the book. Review
word of mouth is hands down thebest advertising I can get. Yep,
and it's free. It doesn't costto leave a review or to talk about
this stuff. So again, thebook is called Is There Anybody out There?
The author is Laura Krantz. Laura, thanks for returning to Blurry Photos.
(42:37):
I appreciate it anytime. This isa lot of fun. Thanks for
having me. Thanks once again toLaura for coming back on the show.
You can find her book and podcastsat Laura Krantz dot com and by searching
for wild Thing on any podcatcher.I'll also have links to her page in
(42:58):
the show notes for you. Youcan check out more paranormal topics taken not
too seriously by searching for Hysteria fiftyone, which I co host with Brent
Hand. You can find a bunchof trivia by listening to Quiz Quiz Bang
Bang. Just search for that onany podcaster, and you can find the
audiobooks I have narrated by searching forDavid Flora on Audible or Amazon. Thank
(43:21):
you for listening and for this episodeof Blurry Photos, I have been David
Uffloora. Don't stop BLURRYVN
Hello, and welcome to Blurry Photos. I'm David Flora, and I've got
a great interview for you today witha returning guest who's here to talk about
her newest book and real quick.In case you haven't heard, my films,
Shadows in the Desert is out nowon Apple, TV and Amazon.
You can search for the title onthose platforms and rent or buy it,
and if you like it, pleaseleave a positive review, at least on
(00:38):
Amazon. I'm not sure if Appledoes that or not, but it would
greatly help me and Derek. Andalso, if you're a backer for the
Kickstarter and haven't received your rewards yet, it might be because we haven't gotten
an address confirmation from you, soshoot me a message to let me know.
Best way would be the Blurry PhotosFacebook page so I see it quickly.
(00:58):
But you can also check out theKickstarter page for updates and such,
and I think you can send usa message on there anyway. Hope you
guys enjoy the film or have enjoyedit if you've watched it, It's nice
to finally have it out there inthe world. Now to the important stuff.
Journalist, editor, producer and authorLaura Krantz is back to talk about
(01:19):
her new book, Is There Anybodyout There? Laura as the creator and
host of wild Thing Podcast, along form narrative podcast about the obsessions that
capture our imaginations. She's produced threeseasons of the show, each focusing on
a different topic, including Bigfoot,UFOs, and nuclear power, and she
(01:42):
has parleyed these seasons into a bookseries for middle grade readers, starting with
the Search for Sasquatch and now withis There Anybody out There? Based on
her podcast's second season, looking atthe science behind the search for extraterrestrials.
She joins me to talk all aboutthe writing of this new book and her
(02:04):
experience of searching for the answer tothe question is There Anybody out There?
Enjoy She's the author of the newbook Is There Anybody out There? And
host of wild Thing Podcast. LauraKrantz. You're back. How are you
welcome back? I'm back. I'mexcited. What are we going to talk
(02:27):
about? Oh? I know whatwe're going to talk about. We're going
to talk about aliens. Aliens,aliens. Yeah, you're back to talk
the new book and a little biton season two of wild Thing Podcast,
which is all about aliens. Andtheir technology. So I listened to season
two and I was impressed with howmuch of a scientific approach you took to
the subject, because it's often thatwe get perspectives of very ardent believers in
(02:54):
extraterrestrial activity on Earth, but youtalk to several scientists of different specializations.
What was your goal in season two'sexploration. Yeah, so the goal with
both season two and with the bookwas same similar with season one of the
podcast, end with the book,which is like, take this topic which
(03:15):
has fascinated people and is something thatpeople are really really intrigued by, and
try and approach it from a scientificangle. So, if we are thinking
about alien life or extraterrestrial life,what kind of evidence, scientific evidence do
we have that would say that itis definitely out there or definitely not out
there, or maybe out there.And there's a lot of people who are
(03:38):
thinking about this from different perspectives.You know, you definitely have the ardent
believers who are yes, aliens havevisited, I have been probed. Let
me show you the scars all theway over to people at NASA who are
like, we just put this gianttelescope up in the sky and it is
taking pictures of things that are sofar away, and yet we are able
(04:00):
to kind of maybe get a senseof whether those faraway places could potentially support
life. So, you know,it's a wide range of topics, and
it's a wide range of people whoare thinking about these things, and I
just wanted to approach that from sortof a more serious perspective. I think
you accomplished that. Well, canyou give us a short rundown of some
(04:24):
of the folks you spoke to andtheir specialties and things like that. Yeah,
So the book starts with a mulamua, which was for anyone who's
unfamiliar, this interstellar object that passedthrough our solar system in twenty seventeen.
And I mean we almost missed thisthing. It was coming in super fast,
and it shot around the Sun andthen went right back out again.
(04:46):
So it was if someone hadn't beenreally paying close attention to the photos that
were coming out of the various ina sort of observatories, we might have
missed it entirely. And for justto start like it is to me it
was just so cool that this thingis coming through our solar system and at
the moment where we finally have thetools to recognize something like this, to
(05:09):
recognize the speed, the trajectory,the fact that it's moving so fast that
it wasn't bound to an orbit aroundour Sun, which meant it came from
outside our solar system. Like thatwas really cool. I know that it
was not the first one. Thereprobably been lots, but it was the
first one that we really recognized,which I thought was amazing. So I
ended up talking to, you know, the astronomer who discovered it, or
(05:31):
found the you know, was lookingthrough the photos and saw it. I
ended up talking to doctor Auvi Loeb, who was the Harvard astrophysicist, who
basically said, hey, let's notrule out the possibility of alien technology.
Maybe this is something like a lightsale. Then you start getting into questions
of like, okay, well whatdoes extraterrestrial life look like? And then
(05:55):
that just leads you to the questionof what is life? And we actually
don't know what I mean, thisis a big philosophical question. We don't
know what life is like we recognizeit. It's like that famous quote from
the Supreme Court, Whi's like youknow, you know pornography when you see
it, It's like, we know, we know life when we see it,
but we don't really know how itarises, what are all the important
(06:17):
things that make it up. Wehave an idea of what it does,
of how it acts, but whatis it? And so and you know,
I'm talking to astrobiologists from SETI andI'm talking to planetary geologists about like
the different aspects of planets that youknow, what or what elements of planets
(06:39):
we think would be habitable for life. And it just it kind of was
like I would ask one question andthere'd be more questions and more questions and
more questions, and it you know, it was a lot of fun,
but it was a lot of questions. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's
very interesting how a lot of topics, not just paranormal extraterrestrial, but also
(07:01):
the arts, even economies and thingskind of when you boil them down way
past the point that you filled thebucket, you are kind of left with
the philosophy of everything, and you'realways coming back to like why or what
is or here's all these questions wecan't answer, but for some reason we
(07:24):
have all these systems in place.I think that's fun as well, the
just getting down to the philosophy ofit. Yeah, And there's an element
too of like we don't know,and I think as humans we're not always
comfortable in that gray area, thatidea of like, well, we don't
really have the answers for this,so we're just going to kind of keep
probing, not literally probing, maybeliterally probing, but like trying to,
(07:46):
you know, figure things out.But we're kind of operating in the dark
to some degree. I can't rememberwho the interview was with, and it'll
come back to me after this conversationis finished and then I'll email you.
But it was with a scientist andsomeone kept asking him why certain things about
the universe and he's like, youknow, I can only answer that so
(08:07):
much, and then eventually there's anthere there is no answer. We don't
know why. We're still trying tofigure that out. And if the scientists
are saying that, you know,they are also they also have to be
comfortable operating in that gray area andtrying to figure out answers to things,
and maybe the path they've chosen takesthem in the wrong direction, but maybe
(08:28):
not. Yeah, And that's ascomfortable as you can operate in the unknown,
I think, and part of thereason why I think people are listening
to this right now and the reasonI try to delve into these topics,
it's you try to get as closeto why as possible, not only but
is the journey fund but you know, you learn enough to move that dial
(08:48):
a little bit towards what, thewhy and the answers. But yeah,
that's interesting. That's something I'll circleback to in a few questions actually speaking
of whys. But I would alsolike to point out that you make the
point early on that it's hard tofind tech over vast distances, and this
(09:09):
ties in with what you're saying aboutomumuh and how we barely you know,
caught that as it came by whatelse you know? Have we missed?
What do we not know that wedon't know? And you talk about how
small the window is for when wecould detect actual signals from another civilization and
vice versa. First of all,let's talk about why that is, and
(09:33):
then I'll follow up with another questionfor you. Yeah. So, one
of my favorite interviews that I didfor this podcast and then that information also
made it into the book, waswith doctor Frank Drake, who is,
you know, sort of a foundationalfigure in the search for extraterrestrial life.
He created what's known as the Drakeequation. And there's all these different variables
(09:54):
in that equation. You know,the rate at which stars form, and
the stars that have planets around them, planets that are habitable, on and
on and on and on. Andone of the last variables is a question
of like would a technolog or awhat does civilization have a technology that is
findable and the time period that thatis findable. And the example he uses
(10:16):
is of Earth like for a longtime, not even that long, not
even one hundred years really at thispoint, right you know, radar,
we've had radar, we've had radio, we've had broadcast, and those signals
are getting blasted out into the universe, intentionally or not. But as we
switch to different forms of communication,as we get away from broadcasts, as
(10:39):
we you know, things are goingmore through cables and fiber optics, that
signal that we have been projecting outinto the universe is going away. And
his thought was that other civilizations,if they are as advanced or more advanced
than we are, are probably alsogetting quieter, which means that they are
(11:01):
going to be harder to find,which he seemed a little sad about this,
and I can understand that, likeyou've sort of he's really been focused
on radio telescopes and radio signals forhe was focused on that for the most
of his career, and then torealize that that technology actually wasn't the cutting
(11:22):
edge anymore and was going away,like and then it's like, well,
now how do we look? SoYeah, that was a really interesting conversation
with him. Yeah, it's sucha small window, especially if you're talking
one hundred years. You know,that's that isn't faster than a blink of
an eye in the universe perspective.Yeah, and you know, as those
signals move further out, they getdiluted to not as noticeable, so you
(11:48):
know, they're harder and harder tofind. So by the time they reach
a place where we could observe them, or some other civilization could observe ours,
they might be so deluded that theydon't even register it. They're not
even a blip. I wonder ifthat ever degrades on its journey as well,
you know, if it when youget so far apart from I don't
(12:11):
I'm just trying to visualize it,and I don't know what I'm talking about.
So you know it's gonna be thisis going to be great to listen
to. But well, radio isa form of light, and light as
it gets further and further away fromthe source just becomes more diffuse. So
I would imagine that radio is thesame way. Yeah. Yeah, I
am also not a scientist, socorrect me if I'm wrong, But that
that makes sense to me. Andthat's another thing I'm gonna speak about after
(12:35):
this, but the light and itsproperties. But you mentioned Frank finding that
or seemingly finding that disappointing. Doyou find it disappointing as well? Kind
of? I mean, you know, that was just one avenue for which
we were exploring this this or whichwe were trying to conduct this search.
(12:56):
And I think that as that hasfallen away as being a leading way of
doing this, there are other thingsthat are coming online. And I'm thinking
specifically of the breakthrough projects that arehappening. These are projects that were founded
by a Russian billionaire or e.Milner, And you know, one of
them involves radio telescopes still and it'sradio telescopes all over the world and reporting
(13:20):
information to a central database. Sorather than just having one or two that's
pulling in information. You've got themall over the place. There's also you
know, optical telescopes have become muchmuch better than they used to be,
and we also have space telescopes wherewe can get more information about what kinds
of planets might be habitable and whatstars have planets rotating around them, and
(13:41):
sort of that Goldilocks zone as wecall it, like the right distance from
the Sun so you're not getting friedor frozen. And then you know,
there's this really cool one called breakthroughstarshot and it I mean, this is
like straight out of science fiction.But the idea that we would build this
bank of lasers on on the ground, extremely powerful lasers that we could then
(14:03):
focus on a light sale that getslaunched from a satellite above orbiting around Earth.
It would put out all of theselittle probes that have light sales,
and then we would shoot those probesat you know, a decent fraction of
the speed of light twenty percent thespeed of light in the direction of any
potentially habitable planets that are within twentylight years of Earth. And the reason
(14:26):
they pick twenty light years is oneit might actually get there in someone's lifespan
and two like beyond that, it'sreally hard to know what's going on.
But for instance, we could sendone of those to Proxima Centari, which
is the next closest star system toEarth. It's four point two light years
away, which with our current technologywould take us thousands and thousands and thousands
(14:50):
and thousands and thousands and thousands ofyears to get there. But with this
breakthrough starshot stuff would take twenty whichis kind of awesome. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it's mind blowing. Sowhile the radio stuff is sort of
falling off to some degree, thereare other things that are coming online that
might give us the answers we're lookingfor. That's a that's a great perspective
(15:11):
on it. It's it's optimistic,which I like. Yeah, I mean,
I'm not saying we're going to belike sharing lattes with the people from
gg b X two dot seven,but you never know, yeah they yeah,
but we'll get there now. That'sthat's really cool. And that was
(15:33):
the distance thing always just blows mymind. And you had that as well.
When you when you put it inperspectives, we can see and understand,
like when you've visited. Was ityou see Boulder? Yeah, University
of Colorado, Boulder. They havea scale map of the Solar System,
(15:54):
and I forget what the scale is. It's very small and it's roughly over
you know, you you cover thedistance the Solar System within a third of
a mile. So you start atthe Sun and then you walk out to
Pluto, which shows you how oldthis scale map is. Because Pluto rip
no longer a planet. I've hadpeople get very angry when I've said that.
(16:15):
They're like, Pluto's sell a planet. I'm like, it's not.
Don't mess up midemotic, don't shootthe messenger. But when you put it
in that perspective, the farthest thathumans, like actual physical humans have gotten
is from Earth to the Moon,which on this scale map is like a
(16:37):
quarter of an inch. Yeah,it's not far, and then you know
you still have like almost a thirdof a mile to go to get to
Pluto. Like it just yeah,it's crazy. I don't And from the
Earth to the Moon, I don'tthink people understand the distance there either.
I have heard that you could fitall the rest of the planets in between
(16:57):
the Earth and the Moon and therewould be it could do it over.
Maybe I don't true, I've notheard that one, but I mean it's
two hundred and thirty odd thousand miles, I think, yeah, which is
that signific? That's a road trip, my friends. And maybe maybe it's
you know, maybe I'm getting thatwrong because Jupiter seems like it would you
(17:18):
know, it could be like holdmy beer. But anyways, I don't
know. You hear a lot aboutstuff, but it boils down to space
being big. Yeah. But therewas one guy I talked to who he's
a guy who actually walked me throughthis solar system model, and he's like,
space is a perfect name for spacebecause it's mostly space. That's what
(17:41):
we got. Yeah. So goingback to the thing about radio waves just
being a form of light, oneof the experts you talk to explain that
everything gives off light to some capacity. Had you heard that before? I
had not, or if I had, it had not stuck. But like
his explanation of it was so good, and all of a sudden, I'm
(18:04):
like, oh, this just there'ssometimes I really want to go back and
like redo like junior high and highschool science. Knowing what I know now
and knowing how this applies to thereal world because I feel like you're just
operating in a total vacuum. Atthat point, there were a few smart
science kids and the rest of uswere like bo And now I just feel
(18:26):
like I would have gotten a lotmore out of those lessons. But yeah,
learning that you are giving off formsof light in you know, it's
not just optical light, which isus seeing each other. It's like infrared
and UV and gamma and radio andmicrowave, and all of a sudden things
start to make a little bit moresense. I'm no, by no means
(18:47):
a genius on this stuff, andI probably get it wrong all the time,
but I feel like I have.It's like someone opened a door and
unveil the secret world that I hadnot been part of it before? Is
this what being a Mason is?Like? Yeah? So what so with
that in mind, what what doyou think the implication is for extraterrestrial life
(19:10):
or their tech? Knowing that,I mean, I think there is probably
extraterrestrial life out there. I'm almostcertain that there's microbial just based on what
we know about microbial life on Earthand where it can live, and like
the incredibly like harsh climates that itcan exist in advanced extraterrestrial life. I
(19:33):
don't know. I'd like to hope. So, you know, if we
evolved from microbes, it would standa reason that that would happen in other
places. The question is is whathappens after that evolution. There are these
theories about like you know, speciescan only get so technologically advanced before it
wipes itself out. The great filter, I think, is what that theory
(19:56):
is coming back to FI. Yeah, and it's like, you know,
did they blow themselves up in anuclear explosion? Did they poison their own
atmosphere? Like all of the thingsthat I think we think about, and
there's probably like millions of other horribleways to die. Did their sun explode
right, geez, a rogue blackblack hole? Yeah? Were they swallowed
by a black hole? Did theirplanet turn to done and everyone got eaten
(20:17):
by those sandworms? Yeah? Younever know. Do we have to take
the gomb jabar at some point?That's what we need to know. But
yeah, I like to think somethingwill be out there. The question is
is are we ever going to crosspaths with it? Yeah? And I
think that's what this whole project,like the immensity of space just kind of
(20:41):
blew my mind when you're looking atphotos from the James web Space Telescope and
there's that one of all those likeit's a sort of a copy of what
was shot by Hubble years and yearsago, of all these distant it looks
like stars, And then you realizethose are galaxies, and then you really
that that is the like it's likethe tip of your finger held out at
(21:04):
arm's length. That's the section ofthe night sky you're looking at. And
then your mind is just blown andyou kind of have to come to terms
with how small and insignificant you are, and the likelihood of meeting someone else
seems pretty small and unlikely. Yeah, I feel like when they keep zooming
out in those pictures and they showthe universe and like the Virgo supercluster and
(21:30):
they keep going, you know,and it's all purply and sparkly and stuff.
But why when they zoom they keepzooming out on those Theoretically, you
know, to me, it lookslike the X ray of like the inside
of a rock or something like,Yeah, are we just like atoms in
a system at this point? Youknow, And it just keeps getting smaller
and smaller the further down you goand and when you you know, zoom
(21:53):
it out. We're we're just somekind of a little beyond microscopic things in
a in a rock. Yeah.No, you kind of have to wonder
like, is it just like howhow many layers to the future are there?
Exactly? And there's probably no answerto that. There's probably infinite layers,
you know. That's the rust I. Yeah, back to that gray
(22:17):
area that we just kind of haveto hang out in and then be comfortable
in. We'll take a quick breakand be right back for more with Laura
Krantz. You spoke to a fellowby the name of Pete who talked about
the government asking for about twenty twomillion dollars for a research program into UAPs
(22:37):
and ets, and I think Petesaid, if the government knew we had
aliens, they'd probably ask for morethan twenty two million. What do you
think of it? Ceze million doesn'tbuy shit, Like, I mean,
they lose They lost that the otherday with that F thirty five bomber,
that just the stealth bomber, likethe guy that was so stealthy they could
(23:00):
they were like where did it go? Like that's twenty two million dollar probably
more. Actually, Yeah, sotwenty two millillion does not seem like a
lot of money in the grand Imean, I'll take twenty two million.
If they want to like hand thatoff to me, I will, and
I'll share some with you. Ohwow, that's generous. Thank you.
I know, I'm very I'm verygenerous. But that's why we're not already
millionaires. That's what I tell myselfanyway. Yeah, but I think if
(23:26):
they were actually really out there lookingfor aliens, it would be a lot
more money. So if they hadthem here, then they you know,
somebody could could confirm that they hadmaybe you know, ten people, the
ten people on Earth who were privyto this information or something. What would
they I don't I guess if they'reasking for more money, it's to either
(23:48):
try and reverse engineer what they foundor look for more. Like you said,
what do you what do you thinkthey do with that? Or how
much would they would they want beingto it? Yeah? I would put
the money in the one hundred millions, if not into the billions. If
they actually had proof of extraterrestrial advancedextraterrestrial life, I think there would be
(24:11):
a big, big, big fundgoing on there I also think it would
be more than ten people that wouldknow about it. I mean, look,
how many people were involved in thecreation of the atom bomb. Like,
I feel like this is a muchmuch bigger project than that. But
I think reverse engineering trying to figureout, like, you know, are
the elements that are in these typesof things the same sorts of elements that
you're finding on Earth? Are theysomething entirely different? Like you would have
(24:33):
a lot of scientists involved in this. I have a feeling, And then
I don't know. There's always peoplewho are claiming that there's bodies with this
stuff, but honestly, sending livingcreatures through space unless they have figured out
how to go to speed a light, and even if they have figured out
how to go to speed a light, like, you have to go long
(24:55):
distances and you have to keep somethingalive, and life support systems are no
joke. You're better off sent inrobots. They don't have to poop,
they don't get bored, they don'tmurder their or stab their colleagues for revealing
the end of a book that theywere in the middle of reading. Did
you hear about this story? Uh? No, this was in the Antarctic
(25:17):
station. Oh, they were winteringover and one of the one guy was
reading a book and the other onewas like, he just told him how
it ended, and so he gotstabbed and then they had to like get
them out of there. That isfamiliar. I thought you made a robot
stabbed a human spoil you know,Hunger Games or whatever, Like, I
(25:37):
can't believe you told me the end. That's great, I mean it's not.
But the thought of aliens or robotaliens stab at each other because you
know spoilers. How you dare?How dare you tell me how the Foundation
trilogy? And asshole? I amreading the secret I am putting out optimism
(26:00):
into the universe. So it wouldhave to be some kind of like interdimensional
thing or something like to get fromhere to here and be fine, Like
it'd have to be like, youknow, kind of a teleportation thing more
than physical flying through space, rightlike, which you know it's not impossible
(26:22):
with the math. I think Idon't know about the math. I'm not
really good with the math. Idon't think I want to go back and
take math again. But you know, I think there are some questions about
before we can talk about how thingsare acting in other dimensions. We have
to figure out if there are otherdimensions, and that, yeah, that
is true. Is the sort ofthe step ladder of science, right right,
(26:45):
Yeah, that and this is somethingI'm going to bring up here in
a little bit too. But justmore speculation to this stuff. And that's
I think that's inherent with living inthe gray area that we're talking about.
But I did think it was aninteresting point that he may about the money
unless they are there's always people whothink there are black programs, you know,
(27:06):
dark dark money going into things thatnobody knows about. And maybe they're
you know, because the defense budgetit just itself for the United States is
ridiculously huge, so who you know, nobody's keeping track of every single sent
No, obviously, like look athow much we spend on toilets in Iraq.
(27:29):
But I think we're keeping better trackof funds than we say we are.
Like, the money is not infinite, right, and it does come
from taxes, and it does comefrom appropriations, and there are some there
is some accountability. It's not great, it could be better, but it
is also not like the military hasinfinite resources to get whatever it needs whenever
(27:52):
it wants. It however, likeit also has to go through channels.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thatthat's true. And yeah, these days
you don't know what they're doing forshow and what they're you know, I
don't know. But it does seemlike we're moving towards more acceptance of studying
this, which is nice, whichI think gets back to the point about
(28:15):
you know, you were asking aboutFrank Frank Drake and like, do I
feel sad that that channel for lookingis disappearing? And part of the reason
I'm also optimistic is because the searchfor extraterrestrial life has become a more mainstream
science. For a long time,it was pushed to the side. In
(28:37):
nineteen ninety four, there was asenator from Nevada who had like all NASAs
extraterrestrial like SETI researched like he wasbasically like, you can't have any money
for this at all, stripped itout of the budget, basically just like
cut NASA off at the knees onresearching this kind of stuff. Yeah,
and that you know, it's alwaysa risk, Congress is what it is.
(29:02):
But I think the overall acceptance forlooking for these kinds of things,
for searching for life or thinking aboutit in sort of the grand scheme of
like where can life be? Whatdoes it look like? Is it my
crobial? Is a big brain likethat has become more widely accepted. Yeah,
yeah, which is good. Andthat senator was not Harry would Read.
(29:22):
He's no, that was. Itwas Richard Bryan. Richard Bryant.
I think or I might have thefirst name wrong because Harry Read's been a
big supporter of it. In fact, yeah, Harry Red was. Yeah,
I did I have to go downto Vegas and hang out with the
old Harry. Yeah he was.He's interested, I mean he and I
think what I liked about talking tohim is he didn't have any answers.
(29:47):
He's not saying there's aliens out there. He's like, look, I've talked
to these people that I like andrespect and trust, and they've had weird
experiences. And these military people arereporting weird experiences. Let's take a little
pot of money and look into what'sgoing on here. Not a ton just
like two you know, let's askyeah, twenty two million, which you
know, throw it my way.I think that's a very pragmatic approach to
(30:10):
it, like why not? Yeah, especially if something of such implication,
right, if you have military pilotsreporting that they're seeing weird things in the
sky, don't ground them find outwhat they're seeing, right, Like,
don't pretend it's not there. That'sdumb. Yeah. Yeah, And this
is where you know, some folkswould spin off and say unless they know
(30:30):
what they're seeing, and they don'twant them to know. Well, and
you can go to any rabbit holeyou go down and go into conspiracy land.
It's just like keep your mind open, but as they say, not
so open that your thanks fall out. Yeah, not everything is a conspiracy.
That'll segue nicely into this next question. You spoke to a decent number
(30:51):
of folks who truly believe ets areeither among us or regularly visiting. Was
there any common factor in thought orwords or traits that you could tell that
these people shared the believers. Ididn't spend enough time with them to like
really get a sense of who theywere outside of this fascination. A lot
(31:11):
of are reported seeing the exact samething, like a cigar shaped object or
a silver disc like those, youknow, the descriptions were surprisingly uniform.
I don't know if that is becauseof what they're seeing is uniform or a
lack of imagination. I'm not entirelysure. Sure, most of them seemed
(31:32):
earnest, most of them, likeI didn't feel like there were a lot
of people who were faking it.There were a couple who I was like,
you're I feel like you're taking advantageof an interest in this to further
your own career. Some of theRoswell specialists, I felt that way a
little bit. But a lot ofthem have seen something weird that they can't
(31:55):
explain and they have questions about.And I think that that is a perfectly
reasonable place to come from for exploration. Sure, if it takes over your
life, if it keeps you fromyou know, having relationships and having a
job and being a functioning part ofsociety, then I start to wonder a
little bit about what's going on.Yeah, and if this is out of
(32:17):
our purview, you know, letme know. But do you would you
say that there's a need for themto believe or find these things true?
Was that a big factor in theirlives? You know? There have been
a couple of studies that have happenedrecently and Americans on the whole have become
much less religious and much more secular, and I do think that to some
(32:42):
degree, this idea of aliens,this idea of something that's out there that
might be here to help us,that might be looking out for us,
sort of fills that void. Ithink there is a spiritual element to it
for some people, or people arelooking for bigger meaning or feeling like they're
part of something large than just youknow, the day to day grind,
and I do think that that isan element of this for some people.
(33:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting,and I think that's a good perspective on
it too, is that there issome need to fill a part of something,
even if that means you are aninsignificant little spec I think, you
know, it's an interesting and thenthat gets into sociology and stuff I would
think, and psychology, and there'sall kinds of places you can go from
here, I think, with itand still stay in the science fields.
(33:30):
Yes, so we're still trying tofind out where this is circling back,
We're still trying to find out ifaliens are visiting us, and so it's
nothing but speculation to try and figureout why. Again, coming back to
that why for everything, But youknow, that's also arguably the most fun
(33:50):
part. Yeah, what all didyou hear from people on their speculations as
to why aliens Aliens are visiting us? Yeah, Oh, that's a tough
one because a lot of it boilsdown to people thinking that they're special and
they feel like they've had an experience, they've been visited, and this sort
of fits in with that religion stufftoo, as well as like you've had
(34:10):
a miracle or a visitation, oryou saw God or you know, the
light at the end of the tunnel. Like, there are some overlap here
in terms of the terminology and theway that it's discussed. Some of the
other arguments I heard is that youknow, they're coming to Earth to try
and keep us from blowing ourselves up. And actually, you know, this
(34:31):
is a huge theme in alien moviesin like the fifties and sixties, especially
in the wake of the atomic bomband all of the atomic testing. We
were doing this New Age stuff too. Yeah, there were all these movies
that were about you know, alienscoming and trying to stop us from hurting
ourselves and damage thereby damaging the galaxy. I didn't really hear any great explanations
(35:00):
or why they would be coming here. I mean, you know, if
there is advanced alien life out there, then it's not just us in them.
There are lots of places that theycould go. So it could be
that, you know, they're justvisiting Earth for a good time, or
were like zoo animals were like sobackward and unevolved and unsophisticated. That's kind
(35:23):
of like, you know, goingto see the monkeys at the zoo.
I don't I don't really buy theidea that they've been to Earth, So
it's hard for me to buy thereasoning for why they would come. The
other thing to think about is surealiens might have come to visit Earth.
They might have come when Earth waslike a mere one or one and a
(35:47):
half billion years old and been likethis place is covered with liquid hot magma.
Let's go hang out somewhere else,and they never came back again,
Like why would they only be comingin this very narrow time period where we
are? So yeah, yeah,again that's a that's a small window.
And boy, I've I've heard allkinds of stuff too. But and and
(36:10):
people said on on your podcast thatyou know, it could be violent.
They could come for resources to stripmind the planet. They that was Hawking.
That was Stephen Hawking that said thatone, like, don't you send
the messages out there? Come on? That's fair. It's a conservative take
on it, I think, avery kind of like cautious cautious, Yeah,
(36:35):
cautious take. But does that makesense to you for something to if
they have to physically travel that vastdistance, is it just for resources and
violence or would it make more senseto be scientific exploration or like what what
do you think? I would leanmore towards scientific explanation or tourisms. I
(37:00):
mean, I guess if they're ploppingfrom planet to the planet and using that
as the next space and strip miningall the resources before they move on to
the next planet. But I mean, I don't know what kind of ethos
that is, Yeah, although Iguess it's a human ethos, like let's
hop from place to place. It'snot like we have Yeah, And that's
part of I think why people havespeculated that before is because that's something we've
(37:24):
done before. So you know,who's to say that they wouldn't do it
as well and we would just belike cattle to them or whatever. But
I mean, obviously they're coming forhere for the cows, Like, think
about all the cows that they've beamedup over the years. That's the main
Yeah, like steak, they likea nice wag you and and again this
(37:44):
is just the fun part of it. It's all speculation. There's there's no
no telling well, and I thinkthe yeah, I think the cool part
of all of this is like,and part of the reason that I ended
up doing the book with for thekids, you know, the children,
is there's an element of wonder withall of this, and like the first
step of the scientific method is aska question, what are you wondering?
(38:07):
And to wonder is very human andI think it's something that children are really
good at and adults kind of phaseout of we already have our minds made
up, We've already come to ourdecisions. Yes, aliens are out there,
No they're not. But encouraging thatsense of wonder asking these questions,
like you're going to find to sortof approach the world from a standpoint of
(38:30):
like what if, I think isa really good way to not only understand
your world better, but understand thepeople around you better too, sort of
thinking about things from different perspectives,wondering what their lives might be, Like,
I just think wonder is so centralto being an engaged human, which
(38:52):
is part of the sense that Iwanted to create with both the podcast and
the book. That's great, youactually kind of answered the next question because
I was going to turn it backtowards this book like season one. You
turned this season into a book gearedtowards middle grade readers. And yeah,
I think you start at Wonder witha lot of things, and it leads
(39:13):
to critical thinking, It leads tomore empathy because you have those different perspectives.
You can think about things in differentangles, not just a rigid,
shut, closed minded process. Talkabout the book just a little more and
why what it might also be goodfor that age group and kids of all
ages, just besides that wonder aspect. Yeah, I think the wonder aspect
(39:37):
is a big part. I thinktoo, Like I remember learning about space
and sort of feeling like it wasthis cold, distant thing, which it
is. But what I wanted todo was sort of use that sense of
wonder to approach it in a waywhere it's like what we learn about in
space is also what we're learning abouthere on Earth, Like these things are
not separate. Space is not outthere and Earth is not here, like
(39:58):
we are part of a bigger system. Things that are happening here might be
happening on other planets. Like there'sjust all this cool stuff to learn about
that I think in some ways makesspace space more approachable in a way that
I did not feel as a kid. I just felt like it was it
was kind of you had no physicsand math and it just felt very off
(40:22):
putting. Yeah, for some reason, it's reminding me of the New Age
stuff again with the as above sobelow kind of thought that, you know,
the mantra that goes along with NewAge teachings and studies. It's it
is interesting to think about and makesit a little more I guess. I
(40:45):
don't know if personal is the rightword, but it brings it down to
you to where it's easier to understandand and to follow up on those questions
that you might have. I thinkit's it's a good, a good cool.
And you know, the book inparticular, the art again gorgeous.
(41:05):
I know, didn't he do agood job. He's so amazing, Raphael
Nobrae. You can follow him onInstagram. Actually, he's like he's so
good. He does all these coolillustrations. It's it's really neat seeing this
book and the Search for Sasquatch aswell, because it's very vibrant. The
colors, but they're in a theme, like there's a you can see a
color scheme with this, you cansee one with the other book and stuff.
(41:27):
I I appreciate those those types ofthings. But it's a great book.
So tell us where we can pickup a copy of this and find
wild Thing? Yeah, so wildThing is available wherever you get your podcasts.
I don't think there's any place whereit's not available. It's even on
YouTube all it's not it's just theaudio. Sorry, guys. I don't
(41:49):
have the skills to do video yet. Someday, someday I will. That
takes so much work, I know. And the book is available I think
pretty much all of the online placesthat you normally get books, and you
know, I'm trying to encourage independentbookstores to carry it. If you go
into your independent bookstore and you cannotfind it, please ask them to carry
it because that's great for me.And also, if you read it and
(42:12):
you like it, please leave mea review because that is really the best
way to get the word out forboth the podcast and the book. Review
word of mouth is hands down thebest advertising I can get. Yep,
and it's free. It doesn't costto leave a review or to talk about
this stuff. So again, thebook is called Is There Anybody out There?
The author is Laura Krantz. Laura, thanks for returning to Blurry Photos.
(42:37):
I appreciate it anytime. This isa lot of fun. Thanks for
having me. Thanks once again toLaura for coming back on the show.
You can find her book and podcastsat Laura Krantz dot com and by searching
for wild Thing on any podcatcher.I'll also have links to her page in
(42:58):
the show notes for you. Youcan check out more paranormal topics taken not
too seriously by searching for Hysteria fiftyone, which I co host with Brent
Hand. You can find a bunchof trivia by listening to Quiz Quiz Bang
Bang. Just search for that onany podcaster, and you can find the
audiobooks I have narrated by searching forDavid Flora on Audible or Amazon. Thank
(43:21):
you for listening and for this episodeof Blurry Photos, I have been David
Uffloora. Don't stop BLURRYVN
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