June 7, 2025 • 35 mins
In part two of the debate I hosted with liberal YouTuber Adam Mockler and conservative YouTuber Blaire White, we talk about the decline of support for gay marriage & the controversy over medically transitioning minors.
Subscribe to Blaire White’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@BlaireWhiteX
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's kind of hard to keep support for a community
(00:02):
that once a year there's incidents like them peeing on
each other in the streets in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Right Publican politicians and pundits are constantly inundating their fans
with propaganda and lies.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
We have just seen new polling from Gallup that, as
somebody who is both gay and on the right of
center politics and a supporter of gay marriage, I was
not thrilled to see. This is from Gallup Record Party Divide,
ten years after same sex marriage, Republican support has dropped
fourteen points since twenty twenty two. This is a big
(00:35):
deal because their previous Gallup polling had a majority of
Republicans on board with gay marriage, and I thought we
were like moving on from this. But to me, it's
pretty clear what's happened here. There's significant backlash against all
of the LGBT community because of a lot of the
gender extremism and the gays who've gone along with it,
and the professional gay activists who've gone along with it. Blair,
(00:56):
You're gonna have a lot of thoughts on this over
to you. Give us your theory of the case why
Republican support is in decline and then Adam, I'll come
to you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You know, it's kind of hard to keep support for
a community that once a year there's incidents like them
peeing on each other in the streets in San Francisco. Right,
it's kind of difficult when once a year every major
city has to deal with half nude people on the
street and people actually having sex on the street, and
with the gender extremism too, but particularly when it comes
(01:28):
to the gay marriage stuff. You know, I feel like
a lot of gay people on the right felt a
little more comfortable than they probably should have, just because
it's really not just the trans stuff that makes the
community look bad. You know, all the children's books on
how to use grinder in middle school. I mean, say
what you want, and I criticize trans people all the time.
(01:49):
That ain't got nothing to do with trans people. It's
a lot of you know, there's a lot of issues
coming from the G and really not so much the
l's and the b's, they're kind of the innocent bystandards.
It's really the you know, the G in the tees
that ruin it for everybody. It's it's a common sense
backlash to the past decade of and I will use
(02:10):
this word because there's a certain point where the word
is appropriate of a lot of legitimate degeneracy. And I
don't consider degeneracy to be things that happen between people
in their bedrooms. I don't consider degeneracy to be personal
choices that people make about their bodies. But when you're
doing certain things that you know, line crosses. When when
Biden has a you know, a transperson stripping on the
(02:32):
front front lawn of the White House, people get a
little bit resentful, especially when.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
He did ban her for that from the world.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
He did ban her, but you know that wouldn't have
happened under Trump. So it's kind of like, well.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
He did host it was at the White House for
a long interview about how they needed to preserve access
to kids. Sex changes, so.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Right, and you don't get to sterilize children and you know,
have heinous gay pride parades and continue on with the debauchery,
and they're not to be backlash. Not saying I agree
with that, I personally, I'll just put it out there
say really quick, I do personally support gay marriage. I
have friends that I you know, support being married. But Blair,
I can see why it's happening too.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
But yes, Adam, I'll come to you on this. But
my question is, it can't just be that Republicans are
all big, bad, bigots and homophobes. And I feel like
that's been some on the Democratic side's response to this
kind of thing. In twenty twenty two, we had like
fifty five percent, I believe, of Republicans supporting it. Now
we have a huge decline. What is your explanation for that.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I would never make a broad generalization and say that
all Republicans are biggest. That's not even my answer. I
think like the immediate place, there's a few places my
mind goes to. The immediate place my my mind goes
to is the culture war backlash that we've seen over
the past few years. I mean, yes, activists on my
side very likely took it too far, and a lot
of online spaces in particular, I feel like I saw
(03:59):
this a lot odd and that could have pushed people away.
But I don't even think that degeneracy is the reason why,
as Blair said, is the reason why gay marriage is dropping,
or it's support for gay marriage is dropping. I genuinely think,
from the bottom of my heart, it's because Republican politicians
and pundits are constantly inundating their fans with propaganda and
lies about gay and trans Americans. Now there's a very
(04:21):
valid conversation to be had about trans people in sports
or gender affirming care for minors. These are conversations that
be hat. I don't want to shut that down. But
trans Americans make up half a percent of the population.
Is that right, Blair? Like zero point five percent, Yet
it's probably higher.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It's probably higher these days. That was for the explosion.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So either way, they consist of like fifty percent of
Republican talking points. There was one trans congress woman. Her
name is Sarah McBride, and this is like the perfect
microcosm of all of this. There's one trans congress woman
and she came into Congress and said, I want to
keep my head down. My identity is not going to
be something that I'm loud about. Republicans immediately introduced a
bill just to target get this one person. So Republicans
(05:02):
take this one new trans congress woman and blow this
case up and target her, and then it grabs all
of these headlines and then Fox News is talking about it.
Then this one trans congress woman is in the heads
of every single Republican who watches Fox News across America,
and someone who should just be eating dinner with her
family is then worried about Sarah McBride.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
So I don't think I get it. Yeah, in particular
with Sarah McBride, I think they made a big deal
out of something that didn't need to be a big deal.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Like can I expand on that. Red Blair White even
said that she Blair White says something about gay people
pissing on the streets of San Francisco. I've heard stuff
like this before, that gay people are out in the
streets of cities, blah blah blah. I live in Chicago.
I run my business here. There's not gay people frolicking
around the streets. But most conservatives probably think.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
That it doesn't really matter what It doesn't really matter
what you've personally seen. It actually is completely irrelevant if
you've seen it. These videos go viral every single year
for Pride. And I don't know what you know if
you're straight or if you're gay or whatever, but you
probably have maybe a blind spot. This stuff is real,
and I understand that there is an overfixation on trans
(06:09):
people and I've seen that, and that's one of the
things I've always said for my whole career is like,
you would think trans people are half the population, and
that's part of the reason why I have to speak
on this stuff so much. But it's not propaganda if
it's really happening. So when there really are books in
schools for middle school that have inappropriate gay acts depicted
visually talk about things like how to use grinder, it's
(06:30):
easy to say, oh, that's propaganda when right wing politicians
are like, we have to get this out of school.
But it's the more accurate assessment is like, they're going
to use that as propaganda, but it is really happening.
It doesn't mean it's a lie because it's being twisted
for a political urpose.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And I'll come to you, but let me just add
on to what Blair is saying. I agree, especially like
right wing commentators, the Matt Walsh's of the world, they
take this stuff and they make it as big as
they can, and they go after some trans people in
really horrible and person ways. But I do think the
Democrats and whatever broadly defined the left and the activist
(07:06):
left have given them a lot of ammunition Biden did
not have to invite Dylan mulvaney to the White House
to talk about preserving sex changes for kids. California put
biologically male sex offenders in women's prisons under Gavin Newsom.
It's like they sure sometimes they make a big deal
out of nothing. They do propaganda, they do fear mongering,
they do demonization on the right, but they're not inventing
(07:28):
it out of whole cloth. They gave them a lot
to work with. Do you deny that, Adam.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I think that, No, I don't deny that. I think
that the Democratic Party has been to beholden too our
activists for a while now, maybe since like the black
Square Instagram era during BLM, when people were posting to
the black squares, probably even before that. Yes, the Democratic
Party has been to beholden too activists, and it's cost
us a lot of political goodwill among the American people,
for sure. But I actually agree with what Blair White said.
(07:57):
How it seems like we largely agree on a few
things here. Conservative commentators are taking these edge cases and
blowing them up to use them as propaganda. But just
going back, I don't know why I keep thinking about
this When you said gay people are peeing on the
streets of San Francisco. Is that like a real thing
that happen it's called.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yes, it's a real thing. It's a real thing, and
especially in San Francisco, it's it's it's stuff that you
would not be able to legally do unless it was
gay pride. And all I'm saying is we we showed
and we proved that society can reach a point of,
you know, a consensus of like, okay, gay people can
get married. There was a cultural moment for about a
(08:33):
decade where no one had any issue with LGBT people,
and now it's swinging backwards. You think it just misses
the mark to not be able. I'm not saying you,
but anyone who doesn't, you know, possess the capability to
understand that some of that backlash is a direct result
of the actions of people within the community. You know,
it's about personal responsibility. It's about why are we hanging
our hat on sterilizing children. It's the most insane thing,
(08:55):
and there's deserved backlash, there really is.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I can understand where the backlash comes from, for sure.
I see it on my side too. I am straight,
so I don't go to gay pride parades or anything.
But I genuinely do think that we can all agree
on a few things. Number One, there's the generacy among
any group of any group of people ever, so straight people,
like Christian people, Muslims, whatever, there's going to be degeneracy.
I think part of the problem too, what you'd have
(09:22):
to demonstrate is that gay people or trans people are
acting degenerate out in public at a higher rate. Without
demonstrating that it does seem like conservative commentators, then we'll
pull these videos and blow them up. So like over the.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Past I also know because I say.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Over the past year, there's probably a straight couple that's
pissed on each other out in public too, but that
wouldn't get blown up in the same.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Way one percent. But that doesn't get defended by other
straight people like, oh, it's just straight culture where you
do it into the gay world and oh it's just
gay culture. Oh it's just gay culture. To wear a
dog fetish sex max in your sex mask in your
lieutenant photo, and we don't criticize that because that's gay,
you know. I mean there's a lot of people even
(10:04):
that defended the trans woman that's stripped in front of
the White House because it's a queer event, and queerness
is about liberation and whatever. It's like, Adam, there's a
lot of permissibility. There's a lot of permission within the
LGBT community, and you don't have to even think about
all these different examples. It's like just hanging your hat
on sterilizing kids. That is a movement that deserves some
(10:27):
whiplash and some backlash from society. You can't just pretend
like that's a normal position and then being like, why
are people statistically liking us less? It's like, well, you
do sterilize children, So it's just you don't have to
look much farther than that.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I reject some of this framing here about sterilizing children.
That's a different conversation. Do you think about it?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Because that's what they do?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Really quickly?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Can I ask you one question we'll get to that.
Do you think the vast majority of gay people would
say that peeing on streets is okay?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
No? I think the activist cloud you're very like, you're
very like micro thinking, like you like to hang your
hat on one little thing. I say, probably not, because
you hold them like is it okay to do this
specific thing. However, if you have an understanding of gay culture,
and if you've ever been within its vicinity, you can
see that there is a different culture of what's respectable
and what's not. There's a different culture, and that culture
(11:17):
plays out just like democrats don't like to acknowledge, there's
a difference between white culture and Black culture. And some
of the bad things and the bad statistics we see
out of the black community is a direct result of
their own behavior. So in my line, there's a thing
called personal responsibility. So we don't act like fools on
the street after we've gained all this acceptance, because that
(11:38):
causes its.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
You backside, I got to add to them.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And there's an op fixation on it, but it's not
out of nothing yet.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So even then, even Adam if and I probably do
disagree with you. But if I were to accept your
notion that well, straight people do degenerate stuff at the
same rate of gay people, gay people, having been maligned
for so many years and having such bias, have a
responsibility to still have more message discipline and stop feeding
into this narrative even if it's the same rates, which
(12:03):
I do doubt I would say that, But I want
to get into the point that you said there. I
do think Democrats have really tied themselves to we are
the party that thinks child sex changes, medical transitions should
be legal. Biden was unequivocal about that. He said something
about surgeries late in his presidency where he was attacked
by activists or even saying that, but the idea that
(12:26):
like eleven year old should be put on puberty blockers
if they're confused about their gender, and then put on
cross sex hormones, the mainstream Democratic position is yeah, let's
keep that legal, and most Americans strongly abhor that position.
Do you said? You said you don't accept that framing.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Why the framing that I didn't like is Blair cupt
using the words sterilizing, which I think is very.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Loaded, accurate word for what wrong. It's not loaded at all,
and you're saying it's loaded with emotions. You're in charge
of keeping your own emotions in check. It sterilizes children. Well,
let's let Adam and how to I know about I'm Oh,
I'm trans. I know what happens during trans procedures and
medications that trans people take.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I'm not going to pretend to know more about this
procedure than you. But Brad asked me one second ago,
you asked me a question about, oh, whether the Democratic
Party has tied ourselves to this position. I think what
most Democrats would say if you asked that question is
this decision should be kept between a board of doctors
or a board of psychiatrists, a doctor, a parent and
a kid.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And that's a horrible premise. And that's a horrible premise.
It's the same reason why Christian extremists aren't allowed to
not take their kids to get treatments for cancer.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Can you give me more prescription? Then? I'm genuine I'm curious, like,
what's you that do that?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
One more time?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Can you give me your prescription? What's your rebuttal to that?
So you believe?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Let me just say my prescription is that when it
comes to children, the state should step in when things
that irreparably damage children due to medical decisions made by
parents that are unnecessary.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
These are doctors.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
It doesn't matter. You can find a doctor to I
maybe you don't know this, but you can find a
doctor if you look hard enough to do literally anything
you want to do, if you're willing to pay for
it and go to a certain black market, or do
whatever you want to do. So the problem is when
there are procedures being legalized for children that don't make sense,
that sterilize them for life, and doesn't matter how you
(14:17):
feel about the word, it's accurate. Sterilizes them for life,
physically alters them for life.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Everyone agrees that some things are beyond the pale of
what's left for parents and doctors. For example, I imagine
you would be supportive of banning gay conversion therapy for kids.
I'm supportive of banning it because I don't think you
have an unlimited right to do whatever you want with
your doctor. So that's the response to your question. Now
give kind of your view or your rebuttal.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I would like to ban gay conversion therapy, and I
wouldn't like doctors to be able to cut off people's
arms either. That's something that people like, an argument that
people give a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Right, So why should they be able to remove any
other parts of their body or sterilize themselves for life.
You can't even go and get a persist that sterilizes
you as a seventeen year old. If you're not say
you're not trans It is a regular seventeen year old
girl who's like, I don't ever want to have kids.
You can't even find a doctor to.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
There's a plurality. If there are a ton of studies
showing that gender conversion therapy or sorry, gay conversion therapy
is harmful, it does not work. It is terrible. There
are zero studies showing that cutting off your arm is helpful.
The trans debate is still being studied actively. So the
idea I'm.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Going to let you know right now if you need
a study to tell you if a child at eleven
or twelve years old can decide if they want to
have kids or.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Not for the rest of their jenerator fory is real.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Do I think journalist for you is real? Yeah? I
have it. Yeah, Yeah, I've suffered with you.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So what's your prescription question.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I also know that I was not able to consent
at eleven or twelve if I could have kids in
the future or not. And it's a completely irrational it's
a completely irrational take.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
The prescription is to wait till they're eighteen at them
and then they can do it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Okay, you tube tied as a regular seventeen year old girl.
You can't go in say, I feel like a boy,
and so I want my breast removed.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You can said something earlier, she said, I don't know
if you know this, but you can find the doctor
to prescribe anything.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So yeah, yeah, you can.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Do you think that if I were a parent with
a kid who has gender dysphoria, I could go and
just find a doctor to prescribe a sex change for
my kid? Like, do you genuinely think I could do that?
There's anymore?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Have you ever heard, sir? I feel like there's several
like world bubbles that are being burst here. There's a
black market for surgery. There's child sex trafficking. I promise you,
if you can sex traffic a child to Epstein's Island,
you can find somebody to give your child hormones or surgeries.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I'm sorry, what does the black market have to do
with the government stepping in and stopping We're talking about
whether the government should step in and stop that. A
black market is a black market because you're going outside
the government.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You just said, are you saying you can find a doctor? Yes,
you can, no matter how however, it is eights place. However,
it is still the state's place to say ay at
the very least taxpayers should not be paying for this stuff.
And two, you do not get to legally go to
any doctor and force them to do some sort of
(17:11):
treatment on a child that is unethical or does not
make sense. Just like you cannot go and deny taking
and refuse to take your child to go get treatment
for cancer if they're dying from cancer, just like you
cannot get them like you brought up, to get them
to remove any other kind of whim that is vital
for their survival and future.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So you know, I agree with you, but I do
want to hear Adam out more.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Adam, and I just want to clarify what I was
saying earlier. When I was talking about taking your child
to a doctor, I'm talking about doctors who are licensed
by the state. When you talk about black market doctors,
that is inherently like outside of the state, like black
market doctors are going to be subverting whatever the laws
there are. So when we're talking about when we're talking
(17:53):
about the laws regarding trans children legal in.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Astaria, it should be illegal as well.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Okay, but if it's illegal, then you bring up black markers.
So I'm gonna remove the black market. Do you think
that if I were a parent and I had a
kid with gender dysph you, I could just go find
any licensed doctor to do sex changes on my kid.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Just to prescribe hormones or puberty blockers. Isn't that hard?
You could go and after a thing so and up.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Until very recently, you could get the various trans surgeries
that exist for your minor child in most states.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I think it's not that hard to get this hormone therapy.
So when we see a mass as a as an
underage person, you said that you can go.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's not that hardy, We'll take a few points.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
It's not that hard. My question is, aren't there polls
showing that like sixteen percent of gen zers or LGBTQ
and like seven percent are trands. Where are all these
LGBTQ transgen zers At a lot of them IDENTI.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
As non binary and don't actually medically transition or do
anything of the sort. A lot of them just claim bisex.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, that's the other that's the That's the first thing
is that your side has completely politicized and destroyed the
actual medical concept of trans and what trans people are.
You've completely obliterated it for political purposes, you've completely I
know earlier we were talking about how Republicans overfixate on
trans stuff, but to pretend is if that is not
because the Democrat Party has propped up trans as their
(19:16):
leading issue for the better part of a decade up
until very recently or now, a few of them, like
yourself are willing to say, oh yeah, I'm not too
blued to that. Well they were for a long time.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah, issue were used.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Trans people were used as a major political football and
still are to this day. That's why we're having this conversation.
For the better part of a decade, and both sides
were utilizing utilizing them very various ways, and none of
it benefited actual trans people. So, yes, there is an
explosion of population of kids, especially gen Z, to identify
as trans. I'm not saying all of them are going
(19:51):
and getting surgeries and actually are what I think is
truly trans, but there are a lot of them because
they have this political notion of what trans is. They're
sucked into what the Internet says trans is. And then
a certain portion of them, yes, in most states in
recent times have gone and have been able to get
surgeries and hormones extremely extremely easy. And so when it
(20:14):
comes to whether or not we should be covering for
that as taxpayers or the states should be paying for that,
the answer is absolutely no, Adam.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
We shouldn't be paying for that. And if kids are
able to get hormones extremely easily, that is terrible. I
would never most liberals.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It's not if, though it's not if.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
People give Adam a minute Blair to walk through his
position on this and his thinking, Can I just.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Walk through how I have seen this conversation go. So
we started off with me saying something to the effect
of the liberal position is that these decision should be
kept between a parent, a doctor, and a child. And
I think Blair's rebuttal was you can find a doctor
that can prescribe any of this stuff for anybody.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, that's not my rebuttal. My rebuttal was that that
is not you can't take that to infinity. There are
still parameters within that, because if you use that argument,
then you can get to the point where you're cutting kids'
limbs off.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
No, no, no, because there are no doctor would ever actually
cut a child's limb off, but a doctor would prescribe.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
My god, they already are. They're cutting off breasts and
they're cutting genuses of miners. Point, there are certain limbs
you're allowed to legally cut off and some you're not.
But at that points, okay, then it's a matter of how.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Many studies are there showing you can cut off an
arm and it's fine.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Dude, you're very You're very like appeal to authority, You're
very like, what's the number? There's also real life. Okay,
so you're saying that a child can consent to removing
their breasts at thirteen, you're an insane person.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I don't think, Okay, how many children have removed their
breast at thirteen?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Does it matter the exact number? There have been tens
of thousands of transfurgeries on miners in the past few years. Yes,
I don't have the exact or not. Everything is just like, well,
the Google says that this is the percent and should
taxpayers pay for it?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And beyond that, should it be happening with minors at all?
That's the second question.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I want to reclaim reclaim the floor here. So the
point is, Adam, that it's not a huge number, but
there have been thousands of these surgeries. We see it
from the insurance filings, and those don't even capture the
ones that were paid for out of pocket. I understand
your point about having it be between a parent and
a doctor. I'm a parent's rights person for sure, but
(22:33):
it's not unlimited. And when you bring up studies, the
truth is that there is no solid, high quality evidence
showing that these things are safe and effective. There are
some very low quality studies, but the systematic reviews of
the evidence conducted by the University of York, conducted by
doctor Hillary Cass and many others. The HHS just did
(22:56):
one that was actually, whatever you think of RFK, this
was actually very serious report. And to prescribe or endorse
or allow a treatment that is so experimental and has
such severe consequences without extremely solid data backing it up,
now you could argue be unethical even with that data.
But the precautionary idea is to never allow this stuff
(23:18):
without ample evidence, and we don't have that evidence at them.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
There's not even good studies for how this stuff affects adults.
The amount of trans people that I've met and I
know and that I see talking in the discourse publicly
on the internet about you know and finding out for
the first time, certain medical complications they have all of
a sudden because they got the surgery that even their
surgeon wasn't informed on. There's not even good data on
how this affects adults, nonetheless children who are still developing.
(23:44):
And then it's for me, it's not even the like
if there's complications or if something goes wrong, if the
surgery goes completely right and this child is now serilized
for life, that also is wrong. And you just can't
do that with kids. It's really not that complicated. And
why it took Democrats until you know, summer twenty twenty
five for like maybe forty percent of them to be like,
(24:07):
maybe we can, you know, give a little ground on
the trans kid thing is just like crazy.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Sounds like you're still saying it should be legal at them.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Should it be legal based? Okay, so here's the thing.
There should be a lot more research. I can concede
that there needs to be a lot more research, but yes,
at the end of the day, it should be legal.
I don't like the idea of doctors not being able
to prescribe something because like for example, with adderall, there
is still a lot of research to be done on
the way adderall affects twelve to sixteen year olds in
(24:38):
their heart very long term.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yet doctor's demonic that kids are put on adderall. It's demonic.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So so there's there are conversations to be had here
as well. You can talk about adderall. Should adderall be illegal?
I would say no, it shouldn't be illegal to prescribe
adderall to kids. Now, what I think there should what
should happen is a lot of times this conversation happens
in Republicans frame it as if I would be okay
with a kid walking in and getting gender firm and
care with like in the snap of the fingers. I
(25:04):
would want there to be a board of psychiatrists, a
doctor agreement from the parents, and this board of psychiatrist
needs you raise.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
That's not the requirement. There is no safeguards. It's not
a matter of what you would want.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I'm talking about prescriptive and in ideal reality, this is
what I would want. Now, a lot of liberals would
make the argument, this is already how it works, that
you can't just walk in, and I want to I
want to rehash this argument we had earlier because Blair
said something to the effect of I keep saying that
because I want to misquote you, but you were like,
you can find the doctor to prescribe you anything. But
when we're talking about the laws in the country, we're
not talking about black market doctors because they are inherently
(25:41):
subverting the law. Can you find a doctor to prescribe
any kid, gender or hormone therapy? Because I don't. I
don't think that's true. You would see way higher rates.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
I mean, so, for example, a teenager can walk into
planned parenthood in many states and walk out with a
prescription for testosterone. Yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
It's extremely easy. You can go to planned parenthood. There's
you know, endocrinologists in every major city that does this.
Like this stuff has been going on in red states
up until very very recently, which is how you know
it's rampant and way even easier in blue states.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
But a teenager walking in the plan parenthood with testosterone
is different than the argument you guys are making about
castration and chopping off limbs.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, well, no it's.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Not, because the medications cause chemical castration. So the word
castration still applies. And again doesn't really matter how anyone
feels about that. It is what it is. It's objective.
And that's part of the important understanding for whether or
not a drug or a treatment should be illegal or
legal for a child. Is moving past the well that's
loaded language. Okay, Well how about we look at the
(26:46):
actual literal meaning of the language, because so long as
we're just like so afraid because the emotions attached to it,
and we don't actually understand it, we don't understand that.
It doesn't matter how you feel about the kid being
sterilized or not. It's not a debate. It's a fact
that it happens, whether it's chemical or physical.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
If that's a fact, well, no, you guys are the
ones saying that I'm basing my argument off of emotions.
But you guys are using all of these loaded words
like chopping off limbs.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
These are not loaded, they're literal. It's your own imbalanced
emotion making you guys want. They're not loaded, they're objective.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Blair, I have a question if there were studies showing
for one hundred percent certainty that giving kids hormone therapy
decreases the rate of suicidality, suicidality like a huge would
you still be okay with would you know?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Because if you can't figure out another way to keep
your child from committing suicide. There's other things to be considered.
What if the hundred so take away a child's right
to reproduce and to make that decision for themselves later
in life. I'm sorry, And if you want to do that,
I'm going to need you to start at why seventeen
year old women and even actually there are cases of
like twenty one year old women being denied getting their
(27:53):
tube sided. If you want, you need to start there.
If you're going to start talking about how younger people
should be able to do that, because in a hype
it's so limited to just like the actual trans affirming Karen,
you don't actually understand what's under the umbrella of that.
And if someone says words like taking off a body part, again,
it's your feelings that that's a loaded phrase that has
(28:13):
nothing to do with reality, that has nothing to do
with my intent in using it. I'm being very literal
and objective, and that's not arguable, So you cannot like
how it's worded. That doesn't change the reality. The only
thing that changes the reality is making a morally based
decision upon what should be happening in reality, and minors
cannot consent to sex or changing their sex.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
The argument, Adam, is that even if they're so, first off,
there aren't studies. Even the ACLU's lead attorney arguing for
the Supreme Court, a trans man named Chase Strangio, admitted
that there is not actual evidence, high quality evidence showing
that these treatments for minors reduce suicide. But say that
there were, the ethical question of consent still remains, and
(28:57):
the vast majority of Americans really think this is stuff
that is just beyond the pale. I think Democrats are
slowly starting to evolve on this issue, some of them,
but unless they can come out hard against I know
you're right, it doesn't it's not a super common thing.
It's not in every school in every town, but it's
such a strong moral issue, and you can blame loaded language,
(29:19):
but it's also there's very key things that are that
tugget people's heart strings at play here. Unless Democrats can
adopt the full stop position of we support trans people,
we support trans adults, but eighteen for all medical treatments
that can't be reversed, I think Democrats are screwed on
that issue, Adam, and by.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
The way the refusal of the left to you know,
up until very recently, some of them are, like I said,
giving ground. But the complete, like arrogant denial of that
on the left part for so many years now has
led to so much backlash against trans adults, to the
point where now the general society doesn't even want to
(30:00):
think about ethics as it regards to trans adults and
adults doing what they want with their bodies. The trans
kid issue is now synonymous with the phrase transgender or
the phrase transactual, And it was so not always like that. Yeah,
there was a time where the concept of a trans
child was like.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Adam? It was a word to you. Then we're going
to close things out on this issue. Final word to you, Adam.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I just have Can I use my final word to
ask you guys a question, hypothetically, who do you think
spent more time talking about trans Americans on the campaign trail?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Kamala or Republicans for sure?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Trump for sure? Do you can you know, bearing on
if there's a problem to be addressed or not, or
what moral side is the correct one? We talked about relevant.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
We talked about throughout this whether the Democrats for the
past decade have caused a lot or have pushed a
lot of their platform to revolve around trans or gay people.
And the original prompt was something about GOP gay marriage numbers.
So I'm just taking it back a little bit to
the party's top down support. If we want to go
back to talking about top down support for things, I
think that's the Republicans are the ones turning this into
(31:03):
an issue on the broad stage. But yes, of course
Democrats went too far with it. There are valid conversations
to be had about trans people in sports, about yeah,
hormone therapy and yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Okay, Well we probably won't even know what a trans
person was before twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
We will leave it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
That seems like a bad thing for you guys.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Right, Oh, I promised you it's not. And that's just,
you know, respectfully, you know, you just don't really understand that,
and that's expected because you're not trans. But I promise
you life was better for trans people when they were
not the topic of every news headline and not being
used as a political football. And many trans people say
that maybe not on Reddit or whatever circles you're in,
but trans people, I know the conversation, right, now is
(31:45):
I want to go back to when no one even
knew what we were Wait, who.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Was using trans people as a political football in this
campaign cycle? It's particular which one.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Micro thinking and macro I already admitted that during during
during this last election cycle. You are right that Republicans
talked about it more, but that's not the only thing
that exists. You don't get to limit a topic to
well during this time period when there's a larger picture
here of Democrats putting trans people up and propping them
up in ways that were counterproductive to people's tolerance towards them.
(32:16):
Democrats putting it, putting a naked trans person on the
White House lawn, putting Dylan Mulvaney in the White House
saying that he wants to sterilize kids, putting books about
how to use grinder in schools, all of those things.
Right when you look at the macro, not just the
during the election cycle that causes resentment.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Replicans have made a big deal of it so successfully,
like that ad about Kamala Harris's for they of them
was so effective according to the polls. If Democrats just
changed their radical positions and took it off the table, right,
that's my argument to you.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I don't even know if Democrats came out with what
was Kamala's radical position on trans people other than the
twenty nineteen ACL You can obviously.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Your possession that she never wasn't a campaigning.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
On that though. Should she have denounced.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yes, and she should have said that I do think
child sex changes should be legally prohibited, and then after
eighteen I support transadults right to do whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
She could have announced that clip. I want to say
one final thing, and this is my final statement for real.
This time Blair said that I'm engaging in micro thinking,
but I was responding directly to the question about GOP
support for gay marriage dropping over the past five years
in particulars.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
You limited it to the election cycle, and you just
said the last five years, which is a lot longer
than the last election cycle.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
When we're looking at the when we're looking at the
past five years or so, and we're talking about whether
gay people are being too degenerate, or whether Republicans are
constantly talking about trans people in the headlines, it's clearly
the latter Republican either pundits or politicians are carpet bombing
the Republican voters with lies and propaganda about trans Americans.
(33:50):
They think, like one of my first ever viral lives,
can you one of my first ever viral one of
my first ever viral clips was me at a Trump rally.
I've been over fifty different Trump rallies and I have
very very respectful conversations, and I ask this Trump supporter
what percent of what percent of Americans do you think
you're transgender? And he says twenty percent. You can find
this clip this Republican person thinks twenty percent of Americans
(34:12):
are transgender. I have a question for Blair. Is that
because one in five people he walks past or transgender?
Or is that because he's consuming right wing propaganda.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
To pretend as if the media presence of trans people
is isolated to right wing lives and propaganda, rather than
not put in every movie where they're not supposed to be,
with characters being swapped out for trans with Dylan mulvany
being at the White House, with a naked person being
at the White House. Again, the reason I say you
(34:42):
keep engaging in micro thinking is because you take one
little thing and you're like, do you think this reason
is because of that there's a bigger picture to how
things happen, like support for things going in a different direction.
More or less, there's a bigger picture. And to pretend
as if Republicans who didn't even know trans people existed
a decade ago have been the only ones participating and
(35:04):
using trans people as of political football is completely ignoring.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I think we're not going to get beyond this. I
can see what both of you are saying. Adam, I
agree that the right makes a bigger issue out of
this than it is and sometimes demonizes, sometimes pushes exaggerated
or untrue stories. But the Democrats, the activist class, and
the transgender community have given them a lot of ammunition
they didn't have to give them, and we will leave
(35:29):
it there. No uh this. I want to thank you
both for your time, for this conversation, for keeping it substantive,
keeping it civil. Everybody check out their channels linked below.
They're both huge on YouTube, both producing tons of interesting content.
Blair and Adam thank you both so much for coming up.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Thank you say
It's kind of hard to keep support for a community
(00:02):
that once a year there's incidents like them peeing on
each other in the streets in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Right Publican politicians and pundits are constantly inundating their fans
with propaganda and lies.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
We have just seen new polling from Gallup that, as
somebody who is both gay and on the right of
center politics and a supporter of gay marriage, I was
not thrilled to see. This is from Gallup Record Party Divide,
ten years after same sex marriage, Republican support has dropped
fourteen points since twenty twenty two. This is a big
(00:35):
deal because their previous Gallup polling had a majority of
Republicans on board with gay marriage, and I thought we
were like moving on from this. But to me, it's
pretty clear what's happened here. There's significant backlash against all
of the LGBT community because of a lot of the
gender extremism and the gays who've gone along with it,
and the professional gay activists who've gone along with it. Blair,
(00:56):
You're gonna have a lot of thoughts on this over
to you. Give us your theory of the case why
Republican support is in decline and then Adam, I'll come
to you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You know, it's kind of hard to keep support for
a community that once a year there's incidents like them
peeing on each other in the streets in San Francisco. Right,
it's kind of difficult when once a year every major
city has to deal with half nude people on the
street and people actually having sex on the street, and
with the gender extremism too, but particularly when it comes
(01:28):
to the gay marriage stuff. You know, I feel like
a lot of gay people on the right felt a
little more comfortable than they probably should have, just because
it's really not just the trans stuff that makes the
community look bad. You know, all the children's books on
how to use grinder in middle school. I mean, say
what you want, and I criticize trans people all the time.
(01:49):
That ain't got nothing to do with trans people. It's
a lot of you know, there's a lot of issues
coming from the G and really not so much the
l's and the b's, they're kind of the innocent bystandards.
It's really the you know, the G in the tees
that ruin it for everybody. It's it's a common sense
backlash to the past decade of and I will use
(02:10):
this word because there's a certain point where the word
is appropriate of a lot of legitimate degeneracy. And I
don't consider degeneracy to be things that happen between people
in their bedrooms. I don't consider degeneracy to be personal
choices that people make about their bodies. But when you're
doing certain things that you know, line crosses. When when
Biden has a you know, a transperson stripping on the
(02:32):
front front lawn of the White House, people get a
little bit resentful, especially when.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
He did ban her for that from the world.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
He did ban her, but you know that wouldn't have
happened under Trump. So it's kind of like, well.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
He did host it was at the White House for
a long interview about how they needed to preserve access
to kids. Sex changes, so.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Right, and you don't get to sterilize children and you know,
have heinous gay pride parades and continue on with the debauchery,
and they're not to be backlash. Not saying I agree
with that, I personally, I'll just put it out there
say really quick, I do personally support gay marriage. I
have friends that I you know, support being married. But Blair,
I can see why it's happening too.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
But yes, Adam, I'll come to you on this. But
my question is, it can't just be that Republicans are
all big, bad, bigots and homophobes. And I feel like
that's been some on the Democratic side's response to this
kind of thing. In twenty twenty two, we had like
fifty five percent, I believe, of Republicans supporting it. Now
we have a huge decline. What is your explanation for that.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I would never make a broad generalization and say that
all Republicans are biggest. That's not even my answer. I
think like the immediate place, there's a few places my
mind goes to. The immediate place my my mind goes
to is the culture war backlash that we've seen over
the past few years. I mean, yes, activists on my
side very likely took it too far, and a lot
of online spaces in particular, I feel like I saw
(03:59):
this a lot odd and that could have pushed people away.
But I don't even think that degeneracy is the reason why,
as Blair said, is the reason why gay marriage is dropping,
or it's support for gay marriage is dropping. I genuinely think,
from the bottom of my heart, it's because Republican politicians
and pundits are constantly inundating their fans with propaganda and
lies about gay and trans Americans. Now there's a very
(04:21):
valid conversation to be had about trans people in sports
or gender affirming care for minors. These are conversations that
be hat. I don't want to shut that down. But
trans Americans make up half a percent of the population.
Is that right, Blair? Like zero point five percent, Yet
it's probably higher.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It's probably higher these days. That was for the explosion.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So either way, they consist of like fifty percent of
Republican talking points. There was one trans congress woman. Her
name is Sarah McBride, and this is like the perfect
microcosm of all of this. There's one trans congress woman
and she came into Congress and said, I want to
keep my head down. My identity is not going to
be something that I'm loud about. Republicans immediately introduced a
bill just to target get this one person. So Republicans
(05:02):
take this one new trans congress woman and blow this
case up and target her, and then it grabs all
of these headlines and then Fox News is talking about it.
Then this one trans congress woman is in the heads
of every single Republican who watches Fox News across America,
and someone who should just be eating dinner with her
family is then worried about Sarah McBride.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
So I don't think I get it. Yeah, in particular
with Sarah McBride, I think they made a big deal
out of something that didn't need to be a big deal.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Like can I expand on that. Red Blair White even
said that she Blair White says something about gay people
pissing on the streets of San Francisco. I've heard stuff
like this before, that gay people are out in the
streets of cities, blah blah blah. I live in Chicago.
I run my business here. There's not gay people frolicking
around the streets. But most conservatives probably think.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
That it doesn't really matter what It doesn't really matter
what you've personally seen. It actually is completely irrelevant if
you've seen it. These videos go viral every single year
for Pride. And I don't know what you know if
you're straight or if you're gay or whatever, but you
probably have maybe a blind spot. This stuff is real,
and I understand that there is an overfixation on trans
(06:09):
people and I've seen that, and that's one of the
things I've always said for my whole career is like,
you would think trans people are half the population, and
that's part of the reason why I have to speak
on this stuff so much. But it's not propaganda if
it's really happening. So when there really are books in
schools for middle school that have inappropriate gay acts depicted
visually talk about things like how to use grinder, it's
(06:30):
easy to say, oh, that's propaganda when right wing politicians
are like, we have to get this out of school.
But it's the more accurate assessment is like, they're going
to use that as propaganda, but it is really happening.
It doesn't mean it's a lie because it's being twisted
for a political urpose.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And I'll come to you, but let me just add
on to what Blair is saying. I agree, especially like
right wing commentators, the Matt Walsh's of the world, they
take this stuff and they make it as big as
they can, and they go after some trans people in
really horrible and person ways. But I do think the
Democrats and whatever broadly defined the left and the activist
(07:06):
left have given them a lot of ammunition Biden did
not have to invite Dylan mulvaney to the White House
to talk about preserving sex changes for kids. California put
biologically male sex offenders in women's prisons under Gavin Newsom.
It's like they sure sometimes they make a big deal
out of nothing. They do propaganda, they do fear mongering,
they do demonization on the right, but they're not inventing
(07:28):
it out of whole cloth. They gave them a lot
to work with. Do you deny that, Adam.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I think that, No, I don't deny that. I think
that the Democratic Party has been to beholden too our
activists for a while now, maybe since like the black
Square Instagram era during BLM, when people were posting to
the black squares, probably even before that. Yes, the Democratic
Party has been to beholden too activists, and it's cost
us a lot of political goodwill among the American people,
for sure. But I actually agree with what Blair White said.
(07:57):
How it seems like we largely agree on a few
things here. Conservative commentators are taking these edge cases and
blowing them up to use them as propaganda. But just
going back, I don't know why I keep thinking about
this When you said gay people are peeing on the
streets of San Francisco. Is that like a real thing
that happen it's called.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yes, it's a real thing. It's a real thing, and
especially in San Francisco, it's it's it's stuff that you
would not be able to legally do unless it was
gay pride. And all I'm saying is we we showed
and we proved that society can reach a point of,
you know, a consensus of like, okay, gay people can
get married. There was a cultural moment for about a
(08:33):
decade where no one had any issue with LGBT people,
and now it's swinging backwards. You think it just misses
the mark to not be able. I'm not saying you,
but anyone who doesn't, you know, possess the capability to
understand that some of that backlash is a direct result
of the actions of people within the community. You know,
it's about personal responsibility. It's about why are we hanging
our hat on sterilizing children. It's the most insane thing,
(08:55):
and there's deserved backlash, there really is.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I can understand where the backlash comes from, for sure.
I see it on my side too. I am straight,
so I don't go to gay pride parades or anything.
But I genuinely do think that we can all agree
on a few things. Number One, there's the generacy among
any group of any group of people ever, so straight people,
like Christian people, Muslims, whatever, there's going to be degeneracy.
I think part of the problem too, what you'd have
(09:22):
to demonstrate is that gay people or trans people are
acting degenerate out in public at a higher rate. Without
demonstrating that it does seem like conservative commentators, then we'll
pull these videos and blow them up. So like over the.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Past I also know because I say.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Over the past year, there's probably a straight couple that's
pissed on each other out in public too, but that
wouldn't get blown up in the same.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Way one percent. But that doesn't get defended by other
straight people like, oh, it's just straight culture where you
do it into the gay world and oh it's just
gay culture. Oh it's just gay culture. To wear a
dog fetish sex max in your sex mask in your
lieutenant photo, and we don't criticize that because that's gay,
you know. I mean there's a lot of people even
(10:04):
that defended the trans woman that's stripped in front of
the White House because it's a queer event, and queerness
is about liberation and whatever. It's like, Adam, there's a
lot of permissibility. There's a lot of permission within the
LGBT community, and you don't have to even think about
all these different examples. It's like just hanging your hat
on sterilizing kids. That is a movement that deserves some
(10:27):
whiplash and some backlash from society. You can't just pretend
like that's a normal position and then being like, why
are people statistically liking us less? It's like, well, you
do sterilize children, So it's just you don't have to
look much farther than that.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I reject some of this framing here about sterilizing children.
That's a different conversation. Do you think about it?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Because that's what they do?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Really quickly?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Can I ask you one question we'll get to that.
Do you think the vast majority of gay people would
say that peeing on streets is okay?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
No? I think the activist cloud you're very like, you're
very like micro thinking, like you like to hang your
hat on one little thing. I say, probably not, because
you hold them like is it okay to do this
specific thing. However, if you have an understanding of gay culture,
and if you've ever been within its vicinity, you can
see that there is a different culture of what's respectable
and what's not. There's a different culture, and that culture
(11:17):
plays out just like democrats don't like to acknowledge, there's
a difference between white culture and Black culture. And some
of the bad things and the bad statistics we see
out of the black community is a direct result of
their own behavior. So in my line, there's a thing
called personal responsibility. So we don't act like fools on
the street after we've gained all this acceptance, because that
(11:38):
causes its.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
You backside, I got to add to them.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And there's an op fixation on it, but it's not
out of nothing yet.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So even then, even Adam if and I probably do
disagree with you. But if I were to accept your
notion that well, straight people do degenerate stuff at the
same rate of gay people, gay people, having been maligned
for so many years and having such bias, have a
responsibility to still have more message discipline and stop feeding
into this narrative even if it's the same rates, which
(12:03):
I do doubt I would say that, But I want
to get into the point that you said there. I
do think Democrats have really tied themselves to we are
the party that thinks child sex changes, medical transitions should
be legal. Biden was unequivocal about that. He said something
about surgeries late in his presidency where he was attacked
by activists or even saying that, but the idea that
(12:26):
like eleven year old should be put on puberty blockers
if they're confused about their gender, and then put on
cross sex hormones, the mainstream Democratic position is yeah, let's
keep that legal, and most Americans strongly abhor that position.
Do you said? You said you don't accept that framing.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Why the framing that I didn't like is Blair cupt
using the words sterilizing, which I think is very.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Loaded, accurate word for what wrong. It's not loaded at all,
and you're saying it's loaded with emotions. You're in charge
of keeping your own emotions in check. It sterilizes children. Well,
let's let Adam and how to I know about I'm Oh,
I'm trans. I know what happens during trans procedures and
medications that trans people take.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I'm not going to pretend to know more about this
procedure than you. But Brad asked me one second ago,
you asked me a question about, oh, whether the Democratic
Party has tied ourselves to this position. I think what
most Democrats would say if you asked that question is
this decision should be kept between a board of doctors
or a board of psychiatrists, a doctor, a parent and
a kid.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And that's a horrible premise. And that's a horrible premise.
It's the same reason why Christian extremists aren't allowed to
not take their kids to get treatments for cancer.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Can you give me more prescription? Then? I'm genuine I'm curious, like,
what's you that do that?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
One more time?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Can you give me your prescription? What's your rebuttal to that?
So you believe?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Let me just say my prescription is that when it
comes to children, the state should step in when things
that irreparably damage children due to medical decisions made by
parents that are unnecessary.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
These are doctors.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
It doesn't matter. You can find a doctor to I
maybe you don't know this, but you can find a
doctor if you look hard enough to do literally anything
you want to do, if you're willing to pay for
it and go to a certain black market, or do
whatever you want to do. So the problem is when
there are procedures being legalized for children that don't make sense,
that sterilize them for life, and doesn't matter how you
(14:17):
feel about the word, it's accurate. Sterilizes them for life,
physically alters them for life.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Everyone agrees that some things are beyond the pale of
what's left for parents and doctors. For example, I imagine
you would be supportive of banning gay conversion therapy for kids.
I'm supportive of banning it because I don't think you
have an unlimited right to do whatever you want with
your doctor. So that's the response to your question. Now
give kind of your view or your rebuttal.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I would like to ban gay conversion therapy, and I
wouldn't like doctors to be able to cut off people's
arms either. That's something that people like, an argument that
people give a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Right, So why should they be able to remove any
other parts of their body or sterilize themselves for life.
You can't even go and get a persist that sterilizes
you as a seventeen year old. If you're not say
you're not trans It is a regular seventeen year old
girl who's like, I don't ever want to have kids.
You can't even find a doctor to.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
There's a plurality. If there are a ton of studies
showing that gender conversion therapy or sorry, gay conversion therapy
is harmful, it does not work. It is terrible. There
are zero studies showing that cutting off your arm is helpful.
The trans debate is still being studied actively. So the
idea I'm.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Going to let you know right now if you need
a study to tell you if a child at eleven
or twelve years old can decide if they want to
have kids or.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Not for the rest of their jenerator fory is real.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Do I think journalist for you is real? Yeah? I
have it. Yeah, Yeah, I've suffered with you.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So what's your prescription question.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I also know that I was not able to consent
at eleven or twelve if I could have kids in
the future or not. And it's a completely irrational it's
a completely irrational take.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
The prescription is to wait till they're eighteen at them
and then they can do it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Okay, you tube tied as a regular seventeen year old girl.
You can't go in say, I feel like a boy,
and so I want my breast removed.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You can said something earlier, she said, I don't know
if you know this, but you can find the doctor
to prescribe anything.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So yeah, yeah, you can.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Do you think that if I were a parent with
a kid who has gender dysphoria, I could go and
just find a doctor to prescribe a sex change for
my kid? Like, do you genuinely think I could do that?
There's anymore?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Have you ever heard, sir? I feel like there's several
like world bubbles that are being burst here. There's a
black market for surgery. There's child sex trafficking. I promise you,
if you can sex traffic a child to Epstein's Island,
you can find somebody to give your child hormones or surgeries.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I'm sorry, what does the black market have to do
with the government stepping in and stopping We're talking about
whether the government should step in and stop that. A
black market is a black market because you're going outside
the government.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You just said, are you saying you can find a doctor? Yes,
you can, no matter how however, it is eights place. However,
it is still the state's place to say ay at
the very least taxpayers should not be paying for this stuff.
And two, you do not get to legally go to
any doctor and force them to do some sort of
(17:11):
treatment on a child that is unethical or does not
make sense. Just like you cannot go and deny taking
and refuse to take your child to go get treatment
for cancer if they're dying from cancer, just like you
cannot get them like you brought up, to get them
to remove any other kind of whim that is vital
for their survival and future.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So you know, I agree with you, but I do
want to hear Adam out more.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Adam, and I just want to clarify what I was
saying earlier. When I was talking about taking your child
to a doctor, I'm talking about doctors who are licensed
by the state. When you talk about black market doctors,
that is inherently like outside of the state, like black
market doctors are going to be subverting whatever the laws
there are. So when we're talking about when we're talking
(17:53):
about the laws regarding trans children legal in.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Astaria, it should be illegal as well.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Okay, but if it's illegal, then you bring up black markers.
So I'm gonna remove the black market. Do you think
that if I were a parent and I had a
kid with gender dysph you, I could just go find
any licensed doctor to do sex changes on my kid.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Just to prescribe hormones or puberty blockers. Isn't that hard?
You could go and after a thing so and up.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Until very recently, you could get the various trans surgeries
that exist for your minor child in most states.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I think it's not that hard to get this hormone therapy.
So when we see a mass as a as an
underage person, you said that you can go.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's not that hardy, We'll take a few points.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
It's not that hard. My question is, aren't there polls
showing that like sixteen percent of gen zers or LGBTQ
and like seven percent are trands. Where are all these
LGBTQ transgen zers At a lot of them IDENTI.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
As non binary and don't actually medically transition or do
anything of the sort. A lot of them just claim bisex.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, that's the other that's the That's the first thing
is that your side has completely politicized and destroyed the
actual medical concept of trans and what trans people are.
You've completely obliterated it for political purposes, you've completely I
know earlier we were talking about how Republicans overfixate on
trans stuff, but to pretend is if that is not
because the Democrat Party has propped up trans as their
(19:16):
leading issue for the better part of a decade up
until very recently or now, a few of them, like
yourself are willing to say, oh yeah, I'm not too
blued to that. Well they were for a long time.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah, issue were used.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Trans people were used as a major political football and
still are to this day. That's why we're having this conversation.
For the better part of a decade, and both sides
were utilizing utilizing them very various ways, and none of
it benefited actual trans people. So, yes, there is an
explosion of population of kids, especially gen Z, to identify
as trans. I'm not saying all of them are going
(19:51):
and getting surgeries and actually are what I think is
truly trans, but there are a lot of them because
they have this political notion of what trans is. They're
sucked into what the Internet says trans is. And then
a certain portion of them, yes, in most states in
recent times have gone and have been able to get
surgeries and hormones extremely extremely easy. And so when it
(20:14):
comes to whether or not we should be covering for
that as taxpayers or the states should be paying for that,
the answer is absolutely no, Adam.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
We shouldn't be paying for that. And if kids are
able to get hormones extremely easily, that is terrible. I
would never most liberals.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It's not if, though it's not if.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
People give Adam a minute Blair to walk through his
position on this and his thinking, Can I just.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Walk through how I have seen this conversation go. So
we started off with me saying something to the effect
of the liberal position is that these decision should be
kept between a parent, a doctor, and a child. And
I think Blair's rebuttal was you can find a doctor
that can prescribe any of this stuff for anybody.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, that's not my rebuttal. My rebuttal was that that
is not you can't take that to infinity. There are
still parameters within that, because if you use that argument,
then you can get to the point where you're cutting kids'
limbs off.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
No, no, no, because there are no doctor would ever actually
cut a child's limb off, but a doctor would prescribe.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
My god, they already are. They're cutting off breasts and
they're cutting genuses of miners. Point, there are certain limbs
you're allowed to legally cut off and some you're not.
But at that points, okay, then it's a matter of how.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Many studies are there showing you can cut off an
arm and it's fine.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Dude, you're very You're very like appeal to authority, You're
very like, what's the number? There's also real life. Okay,
so you're saying that a child can consent to removing
their breasts at thirteen, you're an insane person.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I don't think, Okay, how many children have removed their
breast at thirteen?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Does it matter the exact number? There have been tens
of thousands of transfurgeries on miners in the past few years. Yes,
I don't have the exact or not. Everything is just like, well,
the Google says that this is the percent and should
taxpayers pay for it?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And beyond that, should it be happening with minors at all?
That's the second question.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I want to reclaim reclaim the floor here. So the
point is, Adam, that it's not a huge number, but
there have been thousands of these surgeries. We see it
from the insurance filings, and those don't even capture the
ones that were paid for out of pocket. I understand
your point about having it be between a parent and
a doctor. I'm a parent's rights person for sure, but
(22:33):
it's not unlimited. And when you bring up studies, the
truth is that there is no solid, high quality evidence
showing that these things are safe and effective. There are
some very low quality studies, but the systematic reviews of
the evidence conducted by the University of York, conducted by
doctor Hillary Cass and many others. The HHS just did
(22:56):
one that was actually, whatever you think of RFK, this
was actually very serious report. And to prescribe or endorse
or allow a treatment that is so experimental and has
such severe consequences without extremely solid data backing it up,
now you could argue be unethical even with that data.
But the precautionary idea is to never allow this stuff
(23:18):
without ample evidence, and we don't have that evidence at them.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
There's not even good studies for how this stuff affects adults.
The amount of trans people that I've met and I
know and that I see talking in the discourse publicly
on the internet about you know and finding out for
the first time, certain medical complications they have all of
a sudden because they got the surgery that even their
surgeon wasn't informed on. There's not even good data on
how this affects adults, nonetheless children who are still developing.
(23:44):
And then it's for me, it's not even the like
if there's complications or if something goes wrong, if the
surgery goes completely right and this child is now serilized
for life, that also is wrong. And you just can't
do that with kids. It's really not that complicated. And
why it took Democrats until you know, summer twenty twenty
five for like maybe forty percent of them to be like,
(24:07):
maybe we can, you know, give a little ground on
the trans kid thing is just like crazy.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Sounds like you're still saying it should be legal at them.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Should it be legal based? Okay, so here's the thing.
There should be a lot more research. I can concede
that there needs to be a lot more research, but yes,
at the end of the day, it should be legal.
I don't like the idea of doctors not being able
to prescribe something because like for example, with adderall, there
is still a lot of research to be done on
the way adderall affects twelve to sixteen year olds in
(24:38):
their heart very long term.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yet doctor's demonic that kids are put on adderall. It's demonic.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So so there's there are conversations to be had here
as well. You can talk about adderall. Should adderall be illegal?
I would say no, it shouldn't be illegal to prescribe
adderall to kids. Now, what I think there should what
should happen is a lot of times this conversation happens
in Republicans frame it as if I would be okay
with a kid walking in and getting gender firm and
care with like in the snap of the fingers. I
(25:04):
would want there to be a board of psychiatrists, a
doctor agreement from the parents, and this board of psychiatrist
needs you raise.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
That's not the requirement. There is no safeguards. It's not
a matter of what you would want.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I'm talking about prescriptive and in ideal reality, this is
what I would want. Now, a lot of liberals would
make the argument, this is already how it works, that
you can't just walk in, and I want to I
want to rehash this argument we had earlier because Blair
said something to the effect of I keep saying that
because I want to misquote you, but you were like,
you can find the doctor to prescribe you anything. But
when we're talking about the laws in the country, we're
not talking about black market doctors because they are inherently
(25:41):
subverting the law. Can you find a doctor to prescribe
any kid, gender or hormone therapy? Because I don't. I
don't think that's true. You would see way higher rates.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
I mean, so, for example, a teenager can walk into
planned parenthood in many states and walk out with a
prescription for testosterone. Yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
It's extremely easy. You can go to planned parenthood. There's
you know, endocrinologists in every major city that does this.
Like this stuff has been going on in red states
up until very very recently, which is how you know
it's rampant and way even easier in blue states.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
But a teenager walking in the plan parenthood with testosterone
is different than the argument you guys are making about
castration and chopping off limbs.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, well, no it's.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Not, because the medications cause chemical castration. So the word
castration still applies. And again doesn't really matter how anyone
feels about that. It is what it is. It's objective.
And that's part of the important understanding for whether or
not a drug or a treatment should be illegal or
legal for a child. Is moving past the well that's
loaded language. Okay, Well how about we look at the
(26:46):
actual literal meaning of the language, because so long as
we're just like so afraid because the emotions attached to it,
and we don't actually understand it, we don't understand that.
It doesn't matter how you feel about the kid being
sterilized or not. It's not a debate. It's a fact
that it happens, whether it's chemical or physical.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
If that's a fact, well, no, you guys are the
ones saying that I'm basing my argument off of emotions.
But you guys are using all of these loaded words
like chopping off limbs.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
These are not loaded, they're literal. It's your own imbalanced
emotion making you guys want. They're not loaded, they're objective.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Blair, I have a question if there were studies showing
for one hundred percent certainty that giving kids hormone therapy
decreases the rate of suicidality, suicidality like a huge would
you still be okay with would you know?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Because if you can't figure out another way to keep
your child from committing suicide. There's other things to be considered.
What if the hundred so take away a child's right
to reproduce and to make that decision for themselves later
in life. I'm sorry, And if you want to do that,
I'm going to need you to start at why seventeen
year old women and even actually there are cases of
like twenty one year old women being denied getting their
(27:53):
tube sided. If you want, you need to start there.
If you're going to start talking about how younger people
should be able to do that, because in a hype
it's so limited to just like the actual trans affirming Karen,
you don't actually understand what's under the umbrella of that.
And if someone says words like taking off a body part, again,
it's your feelings that that's a loaded phrase that has
(28:13):
nothing to do with reality, that has nothing to do
with my intent in using it. I'm being very literal
and objective, and that's not arguable, So you cannot like
how it's worded. That doesn't change the reality. The only
thing that changes the reality is making a morally based
decision upon what should be happening in reality, and minors
cannot consent to sex or changing their sex.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
The argument, Adam, is that even if they're so, first off,
there aren't studies. Even the ACLU's lead attorney arguing for
the Supreme Court, a trans man named Chase Strangio, admitted
that there is not actual evidence, high quality evidence showing
that these treatments for minors reduce suicide. But say that
there were, the ethical question of consent still remains, and
(28:57):
the vast majority of Americans really think this is stuff
that is just beyond the pale. I think Democrats are
slowly starting to evolve on this issue, some of them,
but unless they can come out hard against I know
you're right, it doesn't it's not a super common thing.
It's not in every school in every town, but it's
such a strong moral issue, and you can blame loaded language,
(29:19):
but it's also there's very key things that are that
tugget people's heart strings at play here. Unless Democrats can
adopt the full stop position of we support trans people,
we support trans adults, but eighteen for all medical treatments
that can't be reversed, I think Democrats are screwed on
that issue, Adam, and by.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
The way the refusal of the left to you know,
up until very recently, some of them are, like I said,
giving ground. But the complete, like arrogant denial of that
on the left part for so many years now has
led to so much backlash against trans adults, to the
point where now the general society doesn't even want to
(30:00):
think about ethics as it regards to trans adults and
adults doing what they want with their bodies. The trans
kid issue is now synonymous with the phrase transgender or
the phrase transactual, And it was so not always like that. Yeah,
there was a time where the concept of a trans
child was like.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Adam? It was a word to you. Then we're going
to close things out on this issue. Final word to you, Adam.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I just have Can I use my final word to
ask you guys a question, hypothetically, who do you think
spent more time talking about trans Americans on the campaign trail?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Kamala or Republicans for sure?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Trump for sure? Do you can you know, bearing on
if there's a problem to be addressed or not, or
what moral side is the correct one? We talked about relevant.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
We talked about throughout this whether the Democrats for the
past decade have caused a lot or have pushed a
lot of their platform to revolve around trans or gay people.
And the original prompt was something about GOP gay marriage numbers.
So I'm just taking it back a little bit to
the party's top down support. If we want to go
back to talking about top down support for things, I
think that's the Republicans are the ones turning this into
(31:03):
an issue on the broad stage. But yes, of course
Democrats went too far with it. There are valid conversations
to be had about trans people in sports, about yeah,
hormone therapy and yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Okay, Well we probably won't even know what a trans
person was before twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
We will leave it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
That seems like a bad thing for you guys.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Right, Oh, I promised you it's not. And that's just,
you know, respectfully, you know, you just don't really understand that,
and that's expected because you're not trans. But I promise
you life was better for trans people when they were
not the topic of every news headline and not being
used as a political football. And many trans people say
that maybe not on Reddit or whatever circles you're in,
but trans people, I know the conversation, right, now is
(31:45):
I want to go back to when no one even
knew what we were Wait, who.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Was using trans people as a political football in this
campaign cycle? It's particular which one.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Micro thinking and macro I already admitted that during during
during this last election cycle. You are right that Republicans
talked about it more, but that's not the only thing
that exists. You don't get to limit a topic to
well during this time period when there's a larger picture
here of Democrats putting trans people up and propping them
up in ways that were counterproductive to people's tolerance towards them.
(32:16):
Democrats putting it, putting a naked trans person on the
White House lawn, putting Dylan Mulvaney in the White House
saying that he wants to sterilize kids, putting books about
how to use grinder in schools, all of those things.
Right when you look at the macro, not just the
during the election cycle that causes resentment.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Replicans have made a big deal of it so successfully,
like that ad about Kamala Harris's for they of them
was so effective according to the polls. If Democrats just
changed their radical positions and took it off the table, right,
that's my argument to you.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I don't even know if Democrats came out with what
was Kamala's radical position on trans people other than the
twenty nineteen ACL You can obviously.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Your possession that she never wasn't a campaigning.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
On that though. Should she have denounced.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yes, and she should have said that I do think
child sex changes should be legally prohibited, and then after
eighteen I support transadults right to do whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
She could have announced that clip. I want to say
one final thing, and this is my final statement for real.
This time Blair said that I'm engaging in micro thinking,
but I was responding directly to the question about GOP
support for gay marriage dropping over the past five years
in particulars.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
You limited it to the election cycle, and you just
said the last five years, which is a lot longer
than the last election cycle.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
When we're looking at the when we're looking at the
past five years or so, and we're talking about whether
gay people are being too degenerate, or whether Republicans are
constantly talking about trans people in the headlines, it's clearly
the latter Republican either pundits or politicians are carpet bombing
the Republican voters with lies and propaganda about trans Americans.
(33:50):
They think, like one of my first ever viral lives,
can you one of my first ever viral one of
my first ever viral clips was me at a Trump rally.
I've been over fifty different Trump rallies and I have
very very respectful conversations, and I ask this Trump supporter
what percent of what percent of Americans do you think
you're transgender? And he says twenty percent. You can find
this clip this Republican person thinks twenty percent of Americans
(34:12):
are transgender. I have a question for Blair. Is that
because one in five people he walks past or transgender?
Or is that because he's consuming right wing propaganda.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
To pretend as if the media presence of trans people
is isolated to right wing lives and propaganda, rather than
not put in every movie where they're not supposed to be,
with characters being swapped out for trans with Dylan mulvany
being at the White House, with a naked person being
at the White House. Again, the reason I say you
(34:42):
keep engaging in micro thinking is because you take one
little thing and you're like, do you think this reason
is because of that there's a bigger picture to how
things happen, like support for things going in a different direction.
More or less, there's a bigger picture. And to pretend
as if Republicans who didn't even know trans people existed
a decade ago have been the only ones participating and
(35:04):
using trans people as of political football is completely ignoring.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I think we're not going to get beyond this. I
can see what both of you are saying. Adam, I
agree that the right makes a bigger issue out of
this than it is and sometimes demonizes, sometimes pushes exaggerated
or untrue stories. But the Democrats, the activist class, and
the transgender community have given them a lot of ammunition
they didn't have to give them, and we will leave
(35:29):
it there. No uh this. I want to thank you
both for your time, for this conversation, for keeping it substantive,
keeping it civil. Everybody check out their channels linked below.
They're both huge on YouTube, both producing tons of interesting content.
Blair and Adam thank you both so much for coming up.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Thank you say
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