September 2, 2025 • 54 mins
On this episode of Bringin’ It Backwards, Adam and Tera catch up with rising indie-pop artist Gigi Perez for a candid and inspiring conversation about her journey over the last two and a half years. When they first had Gigi on the show, she was just breaking out—she hadn’t yet released her debut EP, and she was still figuring out her sound. Since then, Gigi’s world has turned upside down: she’s experienced viral success, lost her record deal, moved back in with her parents, and—against the odds—taught herself how to engineer and record her own full-length album right from her bedroom.
In this episode, Gigi opens up about the grief and resilience behind her music, the realities of the music business, and how reclaiming her creative process helped her find joy again. She shares the true story behind her hit “Sailor Song,” the vulnerable songwriting on her new album, and the life-changing lessons she’s learned about artistry, community, and self-acceptance. It’s an honest look at the highs, lows, and everything in-between for an artist determined to stay true to herself.
If you’re an aspiring musician or a fan of heartfelt storytelling, this episode is packed with real insight and wisdom. Don’t forget to subscribe to Bringin’ It Backwards and listen to the full interview with Gigi Perez on your favorite podcast platform.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast
where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories
of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had
a chance to catch up with Gigi Perez over
Zoom Video. We had Gigi on over two years ago
now. The first time we had her on, she didn't even have out
(00:21):
the ep how to Catch a Falling Knife. I think
Figurines maybe was the most. Recent single at the time, so she
hadn't even announced the episode. So it's really cool to kind of. Catch up with
Gigi. Really picked up where we left off. She talked a lot about that,
that ep, how to Catch a Falling Knife, what it was like to
lose her deal with the record label she was on at the time, and
(00:43):
how that really pushed her to move back in with her parents and
learn how to engineer and record herself, and that's what
she's done for this new album. So Gigi talks to us
about the process of this new album, obviously the
success of the song Sailor, and really everything she's gone through over the
past two and a half years. Now you can watch the interview
(01:05):
with Gigi on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be
amazing. If you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook,
follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Tik Tok at Bringing back
pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google
Podcasts, please rate and review the podcast. It helps us out
tremendously. We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and
(01:27):
subscribe to our podcasts, we're Wherever you listen to podcasts. We'Re
Bringing It Backwards with Gigi Perez.
Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
(01:49):
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backward.
Bringing it backward. Hi, Gigi. How are
you? Good, how are you? Sorry, my wi fi in this hotel
doesn't work at all. I don't know why. So
I'm. I'm on the awesome iPhone camera. It looks
great. How are you doing? I'm great. Thank you so much
(02:11):
for doing this again. Of course. It's been so long.
I know. It's been a couple of years, I think.
Yeah. I want to say, I think it was like
November, just 2022 when we last
spoke. I think Figurines was out. You didn't have the EP out. Nothing.
Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. So a lot to catch up
(02:35):
on. I'm excited. Yes. Yes, for sure.
Awesome. Well, you kind of know the drill. We got your backstory in the first
interview, really about how you got into music and everything. But just. I'm
going to recap it a little bit and then kind of pick up where we
left off and obviously talk about the album and everything else.
Awesome. Cool. So yeah, you're born in Jersey, but you moved
(02:55):
to West Palm Beach, I think at six, Right.
Okay. And then you ended up attending Berkeley School of Music. But
I didn't get the story on how you. I know like we were talking about.
I think you said you were like 16, you went to the. The camp. Right.
You went to the Berkeley's camp and. But how did you
actually apply to the school? Did you have to do an audition process? Because I
(03:17):
know a lot of people that went there that had do that. Yeah, some were
like, yeah, they just let me in. Or some were like, oh man, it was
the most intense thing ever. Oh my goodness.
I get into. How did I get it?
I lived for the process. It was so.
Was very stressful. I mean like, you're like 17. You're like. Your life depends
(03:40):
on this. I also knew I wasn't getting into other schools. I was like, I
applied to, um. And I was like, I don't have the SAT score for that.
That's funny. I'm not going to get you. But you wanted to go for music,
right? Just in. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, has this, this program
called Frost that I was also interested in. Okay. But Berkeley was like
the dream for me. I was like. When I went there when I was 16,
(04:01):
it was. It was the first time I met, you know,
young gays like me. So I was like, you know, losing
my mind and of course the music.
But the process, if I remember, it's like you
prepare for an audition so you.
(04:23):
I don't even think I needed like a resume or like a.
I don't think you need. What are those things? Like the college statements or whatever
the heck they're called. Yeah, like a letter recommendation or something like that. Yeah. I
think you do need letter of Rex. And then you. All you might
need like to write your life story or you don't. It was optional.
I definitely did it. I was like ready. Or like writing my life story.
(04:47):
And then, you know, for the audition you have to.
It's. There's a. There's a section that is like
identifying intervals. That's one.
So I had this app called Tenuto that I always did. And it's like you
could just like identify intervals and all this stuff. I did so well in that
audition that they placed me in ear Training, too, which was so bad, it was
(05:10):
the worst thing. I told him, you got. You guys have the wrong girl. Like,
I'm not supposed to be an ear. Training, too. I don't know how to read
music. Don't put me in your training, too. I just know how to
identify a perfect fifth. So it's.
There's that, you know, you do us. You do two songs of your
choice, and then I think one classical piece.
(05:31):
Did you do your own songs? I did, yes. I did
this one song that I was obsessed with that I wrote my senior year called
Questions. Okay. And then I
sang Vienna by Billy Joel. And then I
think a third thing. And then I think at one point I was singing Anything
Worth Holding on to by Scott Allen. Okay.
(05:55):
But that was like, I. So I do the
audition. It was the best time of my life. You also do an interview, so
they ask you and, you know, question. Like, I. I remember, like,
I would answer the questions in the shower. Like, I was so,
like, dead. Yes. Like, and it
wasn't even so much like, I know. And I feel this way anytime I
(06:17):
speak to anyone. Like, I don't know. I feel like I have a lot to
say. And so it does feel like there is this just
following the. The flow of, I guess the
intuition. And I really love that because that was the first time I was really
doing that. And I realized how much I liked talking about things,
you know, to people. Like somebody asking me a question, like, oh, yes, let me.
(06:38):
You know. So that was me at, like, 18, and I loved
it. And then I. You, like, sit
in, like, this. This big kind of like
cafe room thing. I don't know. I look back at the
time, I was like, I feel like I'm so
blessed. I've. I've seen a lot of things by the age of
(07:00):
25, and it blows my mind to think about
how incredible and blessed I've been.
And I think back to, like, me at 17, who. You know,
I've seen, like, a lot of beaches, but, like, I haven't seen really
the world, if that makes sense. Something like
(07:21):
being in a. In a college room full of kids that are all,
like, anxious and sweating because they want to get into their
dream school. And, like, yeah, it was just. It was so exciting. It was
so new, and I loved it. I. I remember
leaving the audition be like, I got in, you know, like, just feeling like I
got. I'm. I'm like, I got in. And then
(07:44):
I think they send you. Like, a letter or something that you got in. Yeah.
That must have been a big day. Yeah, they did, they sent and I
did early action. So I got. I
was like one of the first. One of the first,
I guess, batch of people that got in and that was also like.
Yeah. So that happened. And then I ended up deferring for
(08:07):
a year to save some money, get
a job and you know, try to like not
break the back of the financial break. Oh yeah, 100%.
So I don't understand. It's so expensive. It's crazy.
And so I deferred a year and then I had to re audition
(08:27):
and I was like, okay. Yeah. And I was like, I'll do it again.
I definitely was like, damn, I have to re audition. But that, you
know, I did better the second time. And then, you know,
I went to Berkeley and that was that. Yeah, that's
the audition process. And if anybody needs help getting into Berkeley, I got you.
(08:48):
Yeah. Because I've heard so many different stories of it. That's so cool. I mean,
the fact that you played. Did you go in as a songwriting major? Is that
what you wanted to do? My, my. So you go in with like
a focus of your instrument and mine was voice. And then I never
made it to like actually doing the
specialties because it was like eight months in. I
(09:09):
also didn't know how to like declare my major.
It was so complicated. Like, I don't know, like I. Maybe it's just like natural
selection, but like I did not know I would go into the
college, you know, administration or something, the office.
And I didn't know what
to like. Yeah, I didn't feel like I
(09:31):
had the. I don't know if it's that I had the
guidance or that I didn't. Did I apply myself? I don't know.
Sure. Well, I mean, you ended up. You got hit with COVID during your time
there and then. Yeah. You had
massive moments on Tick Tock and got signed to a major label. So it was
like, that's kind of probably the goal when you graduate.
(09:53):
Yeah. So that worked out.
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But yeah, so last time we spoke, like I said we, you we, we, you
know, we talked about, you know, Seline and the viral moment on that song and
obviously you had another follow up moment with
(12:28):
Sometimes and but you had just released
Figurines so I don't know, you know, I kind of want to hear
about. So you put out your first EP in 2023 and
then obviously the new album. So going from
there like just, I guess we'll just pick up with, with that
ep. Like tell me, I don't even think you had announced the EP yet. I
(12:50):
think you did after the fact. Yeah, so it's actually crazy
because the EP came out I think two years
ago yesterday. Oh my
gosh. So it's like fully the anniversary and then my
album came out like three days before that. Two years Friday.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like none of this is
(13:12):
planned, but it's definitely like a
definite moment of feeling kind of a divine,
good, divine kind of. It's very
different, I think the whole entire process between making my
first CP to yeah. I mean, it's just a different time
(13:32):
in my life. I think that I, you know,
struggled a lot in my first time around, my first project.
Granted, there were a lot of incredible experiences that I was having,
especially being new to the. The music
scene in a more professional context. Like,
I grew up very much like in the indie. In the indie
(13:55):
scene. And getting signed was like,
it was a big deal, you know. And I also told myself when I was
like 19, I was like, I'm never going to do majorly, you
know, I'm never selling out, you know,
and now I'm just. I'm under different conditions and in terms.
So it's like I don't. I. I haven't sold
(14:19):
out, you know, I don't need to do it. I know, but. You know what
I mean? But I think the first time, like, there's a song on my, my
album that just came out called Sleeping and
Sleeping is the second song. Part. Part of it is about
the grief aspect of like, it's. It's basically like
how people treat you
(14:41):
when you're going through grief and like, also how
you feel about yourself when you're going through grief, how you deal with others.
So it's like how others deal with you, how you deal with others. And then
it's also about. In. In the music business,
how people deal with you when you're like,
I don't know, in a lower moment or like
(15:03):
there's nothing going on with you really, however you'll put it, like, just
not your best. How others deal with you,
perceive you, see you, and how you deal with them
versus when you're doing really well and you're. And
you're successful or, you know. So I think that it's
like for me, there was a lot of resentments that I
(15:26):
had, like feeling like I did, you know, I kind of
entered a machine with no awareness of
what a true, true awareness besides, like, what
you're told to, like, be careful, you know, and like, you
know, all the, all the things that they tell you about it.
But you never know until you really don't know, until you experience it for yourself.
(15:49):
No matter how smart you think you are, no matter how. Who you have around
you. Like, there are just things that just, like, happen so quick
that only now that I've gone through these experiences am I able to
see those things that, you know, I feel like I'm a much more
confident and safe position in my life, which is
amazing. But, yeah,
(16:13):
sleeping is definitely about, like, that feeling of, like,
feeling, like, exploited, you know, or just not really,
like, understanding.
Not really understanding
or unable to let go of the resentment
(16:36):
that comes with just dealing, like, being in a position
that people. That other people haven't been through, but they're looking
at you. And so there's like, a lot of
resentment. And so I think I was dealing with that, like,
kind of resentment piece for a while at my first.
My first go around, my first deal.
(16:59):
And then, you know, I was released
a fishy into the ocean and, you know, I.
I found my coral reef, you know. Sure.
Well, it's. It's interesting what you're saying because it's like, yeah, you had.
Coming from. You put a couple. You put your song. You put the
(17:20):
song about your sister up or the beginning of it up on Tick Tock and
then it's like, goes viral, like, instantly. Right. I mean, it was like, within
minutes, I think you said it had, like 100. Yeah. Views. And then you
follow that up with this. With sometimes. And that's
explodes too. And I would imagine, because, you
know, you're probably trying to, like, follow that, and then you have, like, people reaching
(17:42):
out. You're new to it. And it's like, now all these big, big
wigs in the industry are like, hey, we want to, you know, be
a part of what you got going on. And I would imagine that's a lot
of pressure going into your first ep, thinking, like, okay, is this also gonna. Is
every song gonna hit that way? I mean, I. I mean, I don't know what
you were thinking going into that. Yeah, a thought. I think that,
(18:03):
like, I mean, for
me, like, I've never.
There's the natural human
desire, egos, urges, and then there's
the purity that's in your heart
(18:26):
and they both exist. But I think that
what I know that I look for and what my
purpose is has always been clear to me, even
when
I've been struggling a lot, I guess, with purpose in the last two years of
what that means when I don't really know what I believe in and having a
(18:49):
worldview, because I feel like a lot of things start there or in
my life. Growing up, I felt that they did. I had a strong Sense of
purpose. Until my sister passed away.
Sure. And. But
when it comes to like, just, I guess, a smaller
version of the purpose when it comes to music, I know that it's.
(19:11):
For me, I enjoy connecting with others.
That helps me feel less isolated. They feel less isolated. That
goes down to the one person. So I'm here for the one person,
not for, you know, the
hundreds, thousands, millions. It's. The
individual is. Is the most important thing. I think, of
(19:33):
course, you necessarily can't. You can't, like,
provide for yourself and, like, be able to sustain your life with, like,
one person. So there's like, that kind of
balance, like, of me
knowing that what I really care about and then, yes, the.
The like, I hope that this can, you
(19:57):
know, be consistent and
those things, like, battling each other. And I think that was a lot of my
first. My first
time, you know, we had first. First project, we'll call it.
It just was kind of valuing those things because I think, like,
granted, I think if I just. And there's no going back and I
(20:20):
would not change a thing about it, but if I just kept putting out music,
you know, like, I didn't put out music for a year and a half, of
course, like, nothing like, oh, really? Oh, you
got. You know what I mean? Because of the situation, probably with the record
deal and all the other things. Yes. But it's like, dude, why would
you tell me that? Girl, tell me, go on my voicemail and
(20:42):
post another one. It's not that deep. Like, it's literally not
that serious. Like, I was a new artist. All you need to do is put
one foot in front of the other. Like, I could be. I can be an
artist manager. I could be a lawyer. Like, I'm not playing. Like,
it's not even. Like, it's kind of crazy what I think about it. I was
like, yeah, T didn't put out music for a year and a half. Like, that's
(21:02):
crazy. Anyway,
I didn't. And I think that, you know, outside of even that, when you
go from like, yes, I had. I had my
band, Wendy Lane in high school. And like, that was like our. Our indie
dream pop thing that we did. Oh, okay. I don't think we talked about
that last time. That's cool. Oh, yeah. So we were in high school.
(21:26):
Aiden, he worked on. He co produced on this project. And then
Coco, who's shot the sailor song video, we were all in a band together
called Wendy Lane. And it was very indie dream pop.
Like, very kind of beach house inspired. Mac
DeMarco team Impala. This is like 2017. So
like we were, we were really cool, but like,
(21:48):
we felt really cool, but, you know, we, we were
really coming into like the wonders of music
and, you know, creating and that kind of stuff.
And so we had that going for us. It's just, you know, they were a
year older than me, so they went off to school. It became a little
harder. And so we never really, we never really got to
(22:10):
like put together the album we
wanted to, but we, we had, we definitely
had a pretty big
following. Like I. And I don't even know how it happened because I don't know
how the Internet and discovery worked in
2016 or
(22:32):
2017 because I just wasn't thinking about that then. Sure.
So I don't know how discovery worked back then, but
we, I think we had like, maybe like almost like
200,000 monthly listeners, you know, and we just
like made that like. And I remember we were so
excited, I think, because it would get picked up on like,
(22:54):
like Reddit and like indie forums, band camp, that kind of
stuff. So like there were. It was really, really awesome. But that
was like, you know, a very, a different
experience from like going into the,
you know, the world of like, okay, we're sitting down
with the major label, we're putting out this, this thing. And also there was
(23:17):
just so much, just, there was so much of a learning as far as like,
what did, what did
my taste, my true taste as an artist sound like outside
of like a band context, outside of anything. So
I think it's just your project, right? I mean, you're not in a band. Yeah,
they're really opinions and it's just you and what you want to be and
(23:40):
sound like. Yeah. So there was just a lot of learning
really that needed to. To
happen. And you know, I think that
it's one of those things that just takes the course of
time for you to see and
(24:01):
learn from, you know. So there's some things that you could say
like, yeah, that was definitely just the music business being the music business.
But then there's another piece of it that's like, that was just a 20 year
old being a 20 year old trying to figure out
who they are, you know, in the wake of going through like the
biggest heartbreak of grief, you know. So
(24:23):
there were a lot of happening, different factors. Yeah. It was like your
uncle, your grandparents, like your sister. Then you got broken up with.
It was like you just were getting, then covet. It was left. Yeah.
Just getting rushed. It was like, geez, I know It's.
It's crazy. It's definitely crazy to look back on and then,
like, I think with, like,
(24:46):
everything now and, you know, I ended up moving back
home after I was released from my record label. I was
like. I was in London at the time. Oh, wow. I got the call, and
I was like, oh, my God, I'm done.
I'm done for it. Yeah. Did you feel like your. The career was
over at that point, or did you. Or was that not a part of that?
(25:08):
I think it was in the sense of, like, the. The I.
Whatever I thought that I was gonna experience, like, I was like,
yeah, that's just like. I'm like, all of you are
crazy. I'm getting out of here. Like,
you know, I'm just gonna learn how to record and
produce. That was my goal. I was like, I don't have. I was like.
(25:31):
And truly, I still feel this way. I would rather sing in a box. Like,
I literally would rather be at the cafe
and I told myself this than, like, ever feel
the way that I did before in the sense of, like,
ever feel that constrained
and ever feel that,
(25:56):
like,
disposable, you know, lack of value,
whatever you want to phrase it. I think. I mean, it's different now because I
spent a year kind of reconnecting completely with
my. My family, my friends, my. My life. Like, my
life. Not the life that I was, like, trying to.
(26:20):
Not the life that I was trying to.
Trying to have. I don't know how to explain it. I think when I was
younger, I just kind of had a lot of expectations of
what it is to be an artist. You know what I
mean? Like, I. I remember, like, if we're speaking, like,
(26:45):
even backward times, like,
I was. It. It really was. I
struggled a lot with, you know, imposter syndrome and
also embarrassment
one, I think, because, you know, I just got out of the period of time
where my sister passed away. And, you know, when my sister passed away,
(27:07):
like, our family, like, we knew a lot of people,
and it was like a giant flashlight shine on us. And,
like, everybody feels bad for you, and everybody talks about you, and
they just feel like that poor family, you know?
And then you have, like, a moment of
glitter, and it's like, everything looks really great. They're, like, all so excited.
(27:29):
And then everything after that is just so underwhelming and
anticlimactic. And, like, everybody's kind
of like, oh, that's kind of, like, interesting. Like, you know,
like, she doesn't, like, get engagement. It sounds stupid,
but in, like, my 20 year old head, it was kind of like
I felt this need to like,
(27:53):
live out a dream.
Not even for myself, but for my sister because she was an opera singer
and she always wanted to do it. Like, she was very much like
the, she's like very much
the. Like.
(28:14):
Well, she was in like musical theater and everything. Right. That's what. Yeah, she like,
had the personality of somebody that just like,
would just love. It, you know, Want to be the star.
Yeah. And I'd like, never really, like, felt that
way. And like, I still don't like, I think that like, I, I'm
always thinking about my relationship to
(28:38):
myself and the environment that I'm in and
how does that affect how I see
others and, you know, see myself and very like,
connected to this plane, you
know, because I think that like a lot of our, the younger generation just got
(28:59):
sold on like, a lot of things that just like,
aren't real. Like. Well, yeah, you grew up in a world of
Instagram and Tick Tock and everyone's life looks perfect all the time. It's like,
yeah, you know, exactly. And it's. But it's
like I've always just kind of been like.
Like when I was younger and I was a kid, like, yeah, there were artists
(29:21):
that I looked up to that I definitely idolized. But
I don't know, maybe it's just part of, you know, one, it's
being the age that I am and, you know, maturing and then the second is
like being in it where it's just feels like it's not
good for society, you know,
(29:41):
that's my take. I think
it's also like, for like, you know, real people. Does that make
sense? Like, yeah, I think, like, wanting.
Wanting.
I don't know. I don't really know how to explain it that well, but.
(30:04):
Yeah. Can you tell me, do you remember where, where I was?
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, again, I don't really ask a whole lot of questions.
It's just kind of. We're talking. I think I said, like, how did you, like,
once you got the news that you got lost, you know, that,
that you had lost a deal with the label and you're in, in London and
it's like, are you like, at that point, like, did
(30:25):
you think you wanted to continue doing music? Like, did you know that this. Yeah,
you still were gonna keep doing this and like, obviously
it all worked out and you had another massive
song, you know, after the fact. But like, at that point, were you kind of
defeated or were you just like, I Just need to get out of here, get
home and start over. I, I
(30:45):
definitely was experiencing
that, you know, defeat and heartbreak. There's a song in the Heights
called, I think it's Breathe, but that's like,
I listened to it right after I love in the Heights
and it's exactly that song. I'm just feeling like,
(31:06):
yeah, I had a lot of potential.
I just felt like I had a lot of potential and
you know, it didn't, it didn't
work out. And at the end of the day, like, I'm a,
I'm a number, you know, And I think that really, really
(31:27):
hurt to kind of really wake up and, and
just realize like, you're, you're a number,
you know, it was a business
proposition and then didn't, you know, and it's like I, I,
I gave some of my most
(31:48):
vulnerable, like,
stories and
I don't know, it was, it was a lot, it was a lot to, to
accept and I did. And
when I started to it, you know, I came from
moving back in with my parents and
(32:14):
I taught myself how to record and produce. There was a lot of
Reddit and YouTube and calling my friends. Like I called, you
know, Jen sometimes who made the EP with me, and
you know, she's incredible. She's like very like, you know, studio
badass. I did everything in my bedroom, you know,
and I talked to Aidan
(32:36):
and I met Noah Weinman. There's a lot of different, like, key
people and my friend Eric, he was the first person actually that really
helped me just wrap my mind around
recording and producing. And so
I, I had friends that I could call and I had
a lot of nights alone just spent on YouTube and
(32:59):
like looking at all the different,
like, comparisons of, you know, different
equipment and, you know, realizing I actually didn't need that, a lot
of that equipment. I did everything on a sure microphone for the most part.
And you could still make things sound really big. Like there's just so many things
(33:19):
that I learned along the way that I didn't know. And I think that it
was so nerve wracking because I really did not know what I was
doing. Like, I truly like, yes, I know how to
record my vocals and Ableton and click play and like
pan, you know, but like, I didn't really understand how to make
things sound good. And
(33:42):
I was blown away at how quickly I
started to. And it made sense because also I'm, I'm still in a way
producing alongside other producers. I always have
been, but, you know, I'm kind of like I
wasn't doing it. I wasn't engineering things
except for my vocals for the most part. But then getting involved on
(34:04):
things like learning how to record guitars and the way that
I. That I like to do them the whole entire. Like, this album
at the beach, in every life is a science project. It's an experiment.
Wow. Did you did a lot of those songs that you were starting off or,
like, at your house, make like those original recordings made the
album? Yeah, yeah. Most of them are the original recordings.
(34:27):
Like, all of them.
Wow. All of them, except for the chemistry was the only one that
Aiden and I made that in his studio in la, part of it. And then
we finished it in my house. That was like half and half,
but in normalcy. Also, I made with eight with
Noah and his. It's like his studio
(34:49):
bedroom kind of thing. Like, similar setup to mine, maybe a little bit more
robust. Wow. But everything
in my bedroom, you know. So you got home.
Yeah, you got home and then started learning, right? Learning how to engineer,
learning how to record. And then when you started writing your songs,
did you, like, realize it was becoming an album? Like, how long
(35:12):
did this process kind of take you? I
wanted it to be an album, but I was kind of like. It was kind
of like a time where, like, my team was like, you know, albums are really
big deal, sweetie, you know, and, like, you're not
there yet. And it's like, if I
don't put out a damn album, I'm gonna lose my mind.
(35:36):
But no, I definitely was like, this is coming to.
This is coming to be something. We're just throwing. We're just doing
singles right now. And I was having a lot of fun. Like, I like that
I was taking my piece. I needed to, because what the hell am I waiting
around for? Like, yeah, I'm gonna put out. And every and every
artist has their own way of doing things that makes
(35:58):
their. Their storytelling and their delivery
feel what is best and right
to them. So I totally respect and understand however people choose to roll out their
music. I was in a case where, like, I can't
just put out an album and expect everybody to, like, be like, that was
great. Like, imagine if I put out an entire album, no one
(36:21):
would have ever heard any of this music, most likely, you
know, so it's like the process of, okay, I'm just gonna put one foot in
front of the other as I go. Please be rude. Was an example
of, like, the joy. Like, the
childlike joy that you can have is.
Is incredible, you know, And I had. I Had lost that kind of
(36:45):
that passion and that lust for music because I
was just so. Like, I was not into. Let me get in
this session. Let me get in a session. And like,
it just was uninspiring to me. Even though I, like, made a lot of
great friends through it, Even if we made a great song together, like, nothing.
Like, it just. It wasn't my. That
(37:08):
wasn't gonna be my full potential. That wasn't gonna be my. My highest form of
creating, you know? And I only learned that by like pressing buttons,
random buttons, until I realized what they meant, you know?
And like, it was so exciting. Like, I.
I just. I remember being in my room
at 2am and recording
(37:31):
something and then hearing it back and being like, is this sound good?
Like, does this sound good? It's like nothing like it. There's
a sense of just like. It's like. It's a
feeling of power, but it's like a healthy power, you know, it's like a feeling
of like, I don't know, like my finger. Like my fingers are on fire.
Like I could just run around the room. I don't know.
(37:54):
Well, yeah, it must have been Phil. Pretty good though, to coming even with
normalcy or Please, please be rude. Like, you put these songs out and
they. And they do. Well, it wasn't like that. You know, you
came back and no one care. It was like you had left the label
and all that things. And then you still put these songs out and then it's
still, you know, they do. Really? Yeah. Good numbers. That must have been
(38:16):
pretty validating. For sure. I think it was like,
also, I feel like all
suspending your expectation and disbelief is
someone can tell you to do that. But it's just one of the things that,
like, there is a surrender that happens on your own body's accord.
(38:38):
And I think I had reached that moment of
being like, yeah, I don't care. Like,
I just don't. I don't. I don't care
because I'm here to
create. And I know that
(39:00):
this entire time I've had a community
that's really enjoyed my music. And I was so
focused on the
suits or whoever that I was dealing with constantly
that I did not have a direct relationship with my community.
(39:20):
And when all that noise is gone,
you see the beautiful. The
beautiful gems and rubies in front of you. So I spent a lot
of time just connecting with my community.
And that was also something that was very
healing and fulfilling to me. And of course, everything
(39:44):
that's, you know, where things have Grown now is incredible to
see. Sure. But I feel just as
loved, you know, I really feel like I. Something
in my perspective in what
audience means to me and the connection that we have
(40:06):
that was healed in the moment of. Away from all this stuff.
So it's not like I feel. I'm.
I'm not. There's nothing overpowering
the real reason why we're here. And that's. That's
really beautiful to me. And it was super important because I don't think I was
mature enough. I wasn't ready for this
(40:28):
chapter of my life. There was. I wasn't ready for it. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I was gonna say. Because then you. Sailor Song is just.
It's the biggest record you've put out. And that was after, like, you had already.
It seems like you've already done the healing process and you reach. You got back
with your community and you started to learn how to record your own songs. And
then this next even bigger moment happens for you.
(40:52):
Yeah, it was.
It's so crazy. I think it's like it's almost a year. I guess I don't
have really a concept of time. We're entering summer, May, June, July.
Okay, so it was July, like third. Something like that.
I like, shared Sailor Song before. I had, like, done that little
acoustic thing online too.
(41:15):
I definitely did not have any.
Anything of the sort, except for I love Sailor Song. I wrote
it and when I recorded it, you know, send it to my
friends, as I did with most of the songs at the
time. Every time I was making things all the time,
and I was like, just
(41:37):
high. I was just high off of making music
that I loved. And this was no
different, you know, dancing and
sending it to my friends and, you know, talking. I remember talking to my
good friend Taimi about it, and we were
just going back and forth about the song and they were like,
(42:02):
just so in love with it, you know, and it's so
amazing to be aware of something so special and, like, what it means to you
and then for that to happen because it makes sense to me
because it was so loved. But,
like, I don't know. I would have. It would have just been. It would have
been as fulfilling, you know, I think just like
(42:24):
my concept, I guess I'll fulfillment, like.
And I think another piece of. It's like, I'm aware that it could go away,
like, you know, as incredible and
kind of the path that I believe I'm on is
wonderful. And it's something that's. There's an opportunity to really
Connect with others and impact others and you know, especially with things on, on,
(42:46):
you know, heavier topics like grief. That means so much to me.
But I also know that anything can happen and
you know, life is unpredictable, it's short, you know, you
don't, there's so many twists and turns of
the business and I know ultimately that my,
(43:06):
the thing that means the most to me is just knowing that I'm also loved
by the people around me and my, my
family and my friends and my dogs. And
that's kind of like the last standing thing, I think. So
it's, it's a different, it's a different world to be in now with
this, you know. And it's also interesting too because like
(43:30):
now I'm on tour a lot and so your world
kind of becomes smaller in some sort of sense with the people that you are
around. I'm grateful because my family travels with me, so that's amazing.
Yeah. So you know, they're very involved in my life but you
know, it's like, it's important
for me to one
(43:52):
just like take care of my well being and my health and my sleep and
all those different things. But also make sure that I'm staying in touch with
the people that matter to me. Which it's, it's a lot to
balance for sure. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Oh my
gosh. Well, the album is amazing. I,
I, I, it's crazy that you did it all kind
(44:16):
of yourself. I mean that I would have never guessed that going into the conversation.
That's so cool that you did that. I think Survivor's Guild is
such a deep song. Like that was a very
vulnerable one for you to put out. But yeah,
yeah, I'm sure that was a rough one to write.
Yeah, I mean it came to me pretty, it
(44:38):
was like right there, Aiden had come up with these chords, I had heard
them. I was like, Aiden, what are those chords? It's
like Gigi, like Aiden and he gave it to me.
So. Thank you, Aiden. Well, I already wrote to it. I was like, I was
like, by the way, I wrote to your chords because they're like very interesting
chords. They're not, it's not just like a kind of, you know, a basic
(45:02):
center for chords. Chord progression. It's a really cool chord
progression. And he heard it, he was like, yeah, we gotta record this,
you know, and it just,
it flow, it just flowed. That one just flowed. I think it
was like over time I've kind of seen
(45:24):
and especially the year where I was away from the music world
that's where I really started to see a lot of my,
like, the deconstruction of Christianity
and my upbringing and where that
intersects with my grief. I don't know. It's like
(45:45):
a big explosion. Yeah. And so I think.
I mean, a lot of the album is about that. And, like, there is that
love factor, that very pure. That pure kind of
love piece of it all where, like,
I'm going through dealing with the grief and
the deconstructed. Deconstructing. But then there's this
(46:07):
pillar. It's just something I can hold on to
throughout all of it. But,
yeah, definitely. It was definitely a heavy one.
Do you feel like it's therapeutic when you get these songs out like that? Oh,
my gosh, yes. I remember when I wrote Fable, I was like, thank freaking
God. I needed to get this one up because
(46:30):
it's more so, like, I think with grief. Like,
it's taken me years and years to understand
or to see the way.
See who I would become. Because when my sister passed
away, I remember this pastor was at my house,
(46:51):
and he told me this thing,
and I was so angry. I was like, I wanted this man out of my
house. Like, get the hell out of my house.
But he said, how you handle your grief
right now will affect you for the rest of your life.
It's going to affect you. Your relationships
(47:14):
is going to affect, you know, your work. It's going to affect your future
children. It's going to affect your spouse,
everything. It's going to affect everything in your life.
So how you deal with it is so important.
And I'm like, I literally. My sister died today. You know
(47:35):
what I mean? And I'm like, you're that heavy thing. I was like, yes,
this is great. This is exactly it. Like, I have more responsibility.
Yes. And I feel like as much as it was,
maybe he didn't even need to tell me that, like, in the grand scheme, because
I would have figured it out, therapy and stuff, but
(47:57):
I never forgot it. And I think that. I think about that
as I've gone from the early 20s to now
25 to I'm sure when
I'm 30, how my grief changes and how
it affects how I approach life.
And it's very. It's
(48:19):
very weird because it follows you
and it changes and evolves. And, like, sometimes,
like, I think, like, maybe I'm like, I won't.
There's, like, that longing and that loss that exists, and then
there's, like, the harrowing, dark side of it, and then there's, like,
(48:40):
okay. I'm
dealing with new concerns based upon my age. I'm dealing with
new fears based upon my age. I. You know,
it just does things to you. Like. Just like, anything. Like, I
think, like, if it's, like, a physical trauma or you're like,
(49:00):
you know, something crazy happens. And, like, those people who get, like,
diseases year. Years later after, like, it's the
progression of how a certain trauma changes you.
And, you know, I'm in therapy for that, but I think there's
only so much you can do. And I think something like
the writing process of it, like, I've seen the way the things that I write
(49:22):
about have changed the way that I. There were things that
I would have just never imagined
or could have fathomed, and
I. It had to be five years later to articulate it. Like, imagine,
like, it's, like, pulling through.
(49:44):
Like, if there was just, like, this big building that collapsed or
something. You have to find every single
piece of it, you know, or whatever they do. I don't know what they do,
but it's like, I had to find
it all. And there are things I still haven't found yet. And so there's a
frustration of, like, the anticipatory grief that
(50:06):
you haven't experienced yet. Like a wedding day, for example. Like,
anybody who's lost their. Lost their parent, you
know, no matter how old they are, they. They know that that day is going
to come someday and that living in that purgatory
is just a different kind of heartbreak. It's still a
heartbreak versus them actually getting married on that day, and their
(50:29):
parent is walking them down the aisle, you know, So I think it's,
like, very.
Songwriting is the greatest gift that
I've been given, one of the greatest gifts, I think,
you know, people. And, like, my. The people in my life come first.
But that is the. The personal
(50:50):
gift of being able to
understand things. Like, sometimes I understand
things because I wrote about it, and I look back at what I wrote. I'm
like, oh. And
being able to also package it in a way that's satisfying to me because
I just. That's how I am. And I love music, and I love
(51:12):
hearing things in a way that's connected to the. The melody
and the lyric and the rhyme. And, like, there's so many things that, like,
make something that is so,
like, such an annoyance to me and
such a point of
negativity and turning that into something beautiful and being like,
(51:35):
yes. And then somebody else from the other side will be like, oh, my God.
Like, that was so satisfying to me as well. So
it's a really big blessing to be able to have
songwriting that helps me figure out
what I'm feeling. It's the. It's the biggest relief.
It's like a massage. I love it. Well, I
(51:58):
think the album. Excuse me. I think the album is incredible. And I
appreciate your time, Gigi, for coming back and doing this. You're. You're so fun to
talk to. So thank you for your time today. I have one more question.
I asked you this last time, but I'm gonna ask it again if you have
any advice for aspiring artists.
I remember when you asked me that. I wonder what it said.
(52:20):
I think it's just
follow the thing that moves you
and wherever you feel pulled to
go there and find
that. That reason
(52:43):
that. That it means so much to you and,
you know, do it for the love of it, you know? And if
you feel like that's not kind of where you're at, I
think it's important to evaluate maybe why, if it's a. If it's the circumstances,
then. And there's nothing you can do about it than have
(53:05):
grace for yourself. I think that having grace for yourself and
knowing that things will fall as they're meant to is important. But
most importantly, not every day is going to be a good day, and
not every day is going to be a great creative day. But,
you know, you're still an artist, and you still love it. Make as long as
(53:26):
that. That the
light can dim sometimes, but
don't ever let it go out.
That's the goal.
(53:53):
Backward, bring it backwards, bring it
back, bring it back.
What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast
where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories
of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had
a chance to catch up with Gigi Perez over
Zoom Video. We had Gigi on over two years ago
now. The first time we had her on, she didn't even have out
(00:21):
the ep how to Catch a Falling Knife. I think
Figurines maybe was the most. Recent single at the time, so she
hadn't even announced the episode. So it's really cool to kind of. Catch up with
Gigi. Really picked up where we left off. She talked a lot about that,
that ep, how to Catch a Falling Knife, what it was like to
lose her deal with the record label she was on at the time, and
(00:43):
how that really pushed her to move back in with her parents and
learn how to engineer and record herself, and that's what
she's done for this new album. So Gigi talks to us
about the process of this new album, obviously the
success of the song Sailor, and really everything she's gone through over the
past two and a half years. Now you can watch the interview
(01:05):
with Gigi on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be
amazing. If you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook,
follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Tik Tok at Bringing back
pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google
Podcasts, please rate and review the podcast. It helps us out
tremendously. We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and
(01:27):
subscribe to our podcasts, we're Wherever you listen to podcasts. We'Re
Bringing It Backwards with Gigi Perez.
Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
(01:49):
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backward.
Bringing it backward. Hi, Gigi. How are
you? Good, how are you? Sorry, my wi fi in this hotel
doesn't work at all. I don't know why. So
I'm. I'm on the awesome iPhone camera. It looks
great. How are you doing? I'm great. Thank you so much
(02:11):
for doing this again. Of course. It's been so long.
I know. It's been a couple of years, I think.
Yeah. I want to say, I think it was like
November, just 2022 when we last
spoke. I think Figurines was out. You didn't have the EP out. Nothing.
Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. So a lot to catch up
(02:35):
on. I'm excited. Yes. Yes, for sure.
Awesome. Well, you kind of know the drill. We got your backstory in the first
interview, really about how you got into music and everything. But just. I'm
going to recap it a little bit and then kind of pick up where we
left off and obviously talk about the album and everything else.
Awesome. Cool. So yeah, you're born in Jersey, but you moved
(02:55):
to West Palm Beach, I think at six, Right.
Okay. And then you ended up attending Berkeley School of Music. But
I didn't get the story on how you. I know like we were talking about.
I think you said you were like 16, you went to the. The camp. Right.
You went to the Berkeley's camp and. But how did you
actually apply to the school? Did you have to do an audition process? Because I
(03:17):
know a lot of people that went there that had do that. Yeah, some were
like, yeah, they just let me in. Or some were like, oh man, it was
the most intense thing ever. Oh my goodness.
I get into. How did I get it?
I lived for the process. It was so.
Was very stressful. I mean like, you're like 17. You're like. Your life depends
(03:40):
on this. I also knew I wasn't getting into other schools. I was like, I
applied to, um. And I was like, I don't have the SAT score for that.
That's funny. I'm not going to get you. But you wanted to go for music,
right? Just in. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, has this, this program
called Frost that I was also interested in. Okay. But Berkeley was like
the dream for me. I was like. When I went there when I was 16,
(04:01):
it was. It was the first time I met, you know,
young gays like me. So I was like, you know, losing
my mind and of course the music.
But the process, if I remember, it's like you
prepare for an audition so you.
(04:23):
I don't even think I needed like a resume or like a.
I don't think you need. What are those things? Like the college statements or whatever
the heck they're called. Yeah, like a letter recommendation or something like that. Yeah. I
think you do need letter of Rex. And then you. All you might
need like to write your life story or you don't. It was optional.
I definitely did it. I was like ready. Or like writing my life story.
(04:47):
And then, you know, for the audition you have to.
It's. There's a. There's a section that is like
identifying intervals. That's one.
So I had this app called Tenuto that I always did. And it's like you
could just like identify intervals and all this stuff. I did so well in that
audition that they placed me in ear Training, too, which was so bad, it was
(05:10):
the worst thing. I told him, you got. You guys have the wrong girl. Like,
I'm not supposed to be an ear. Training, too. I don't know how to read
music. Don't put me in your training, too. I just know how to
identify a perfect fifth. So it's.
There's that, you know, you do us. You do two songs of your
choice, and then I think one classical piece.
(05:31):
Did you do your own songs? I did, yes. I did
this one song that I was obsessed with that I wrote my senior year called
Questions. Okay. And then I
sang Vienna by Billy Joel. And then I
think a third thing. And then I think at one point I was singing Anything
Worth Holding on to by Scott Allen. Okay.
(05:55):
But that was like, I. So I do the
audition. It was the best time of my life. You also do an interview, so
they ask you and, you know, question. Like, I. I remember, like,
I would answer the questions in the shower. Like, I was so,
like, dead. Yes. Like, and it
wasn't even so much like, I know. And I feel this way anytime I
(06:17):
speak to anyone. Like, I don't know. I feel like I have a lot to
say. And so it does feel like there is this just
following the. The flow of, I guess the
intuition. And I really love that because that was the first time I was really
doing that. And I realized how much I liked talking about things,
you know, to people. Like somebody asking me a question, like, oh, yes, let me.
(06:38):
You know. So that was me at, like, 18, and I loved
it. And then I. You, like, sit
in, like, this. This big kind of like
cafe room thing. I don't know. I look back at the
time, I was like, I feel like I'm so
blessed. I've. I've seen a lot of things by the age of
(07:00):
25, and it blows my mind to think about
how incredible and blessed I've been.
And I think back to, like, me at 17, who. You know,
I've seen, like, a lot of beaches, but, like, I haven't seen really
the world, if that makes sense. Something like
(07:21):
being in a. In a college room full of kids that are all,
like, anxious and sweating because they want to get into their
dream school. And, like, yeah, it was just. It was so exciting. It was
so new, and I loved it. I. I remember
leaving the audition be like, I got in, you know, like, just feeling like I
got. I'm. I'm like, I got in. And then
(07:44):
I think they send you. Like, a letter or something that you got in. Yeah.
That must have been a big day. Yeah, they did, they sent and I
did early action. So I got. I
was like one of the first. One of the first,
I guess, batch of people that got in and that was also like.
Yeah. So that happened. And then I ended up deferring for
(08:07):
a year to save some money, get
a job and you know, try to like not
break the back of the financial break. Oh yeah, 100%.
So I don't understand. It's so expensive. It's crazy.
And so I deferred a year and then I had to re audition
(08:27):
and I was like, okay. Yeah. And I was like, I'll do it again.
I definitely was like, damn, I have to re audition. But that, you
know, I did better the second time. And then, you know,
I went to Berkeley and that was that. Yeah, that's
the audition process. And if anybody needs help getting into Berkeley, I got you.
(08:48):
Yeah. Because I've heard so many different stories of it. That's so cool. I mean,
the fact that you played. Did you go in as a songwriting major? Is that
what you wanted to do? My, my. So you go in with like
a focus of your instrument and mine was voice. And then I never
made it to like actually doing the
specialties because it was like eight months in. I
(09:09):
also didn't know how to like declare my major.
It was so complicated. Like, I don't know, like I. Maybe it's just like natural
selection, but like I did not know I would go into the
college, you know, administration or something, the office.
And I didn't know what
to like. Yeah, I didn't feel like I
(09:31):
had the. I don't know if it's that I had the
guidance or that I didn't. Did I apply myself? I don't know.
Sure. Well, I mean, you ended up. You got hit with COVID during your time
there and then. Yeah. You had
massive moments on Tick Tock and got signed to a major label. So it was
like, that's kind of probably the goal when you graduate.
(09:53):
Yeah. So that worked out.
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But yeah, so last time we spoke, like I said we, you we, we, you
know, we talked about, you know, Seline and the viral moment on that song and
obviously you had another follow up moment with
(12:28):
Sometimes and but you had just released
Figurines so I don't know, you know, I kind of want to hear
about. So you put out your first EP in 2023 and
then obviously the new album. So going from
there like just, I guess we'll just pick up with, with that
ep. Like tell me, I don't even think you had announced the EP yet. I
(12:50):
think you did after the fact. Yeah, so it's actually crazy
because the EP came out I think two years
ago yesterday. Oh my
gosh. So it's like fully the anniversary and then my
album came out like three days before that. Two years Friday.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like none of this is
(13:12):
planned, but it's definitely like a
definite moment of feeling kind of a divine,
good, divine kind of. It's very
different, I think the whole entire process between making my
first CP to yeah. I mean, it's just a different time
(13:32):
in my life. I think that I, you know,
struggled a lot in my first time around, my first project.
Granted, there were a lot of incredible experiences that I was having,
especially being new to the. The music
scene in a more professional context. Like,
I grew up very much like in the indie. In the indie
(13:55):
scene. And getting signed was like,
it was a big deal, you know. And I also told myself when I was
like 19, I was like, I'm never going to do majorly, you
know, I'm never selling out, you know,
and now I'm just. I'm under different conditions and in terms.
So it's like I don't. I. I haven't sold
(14:19):
out, you know, I don't need to do it. I know, but. You know what
I mean? But I think the first time, like, there's a song on my, my
album that just came out called Sleeping and
Sleeping is the second song. Part. Part of it is about
the grief aspect of like, it's. It's basically like
how people treat you
(14:41):
when you're going through grief and like, also how
you feel about yourself when you're going through grief, how you deal with others.
So it's like how others deal with you, how you deal with others. And then
it's also about. In. In the music business,
how people deal with you when you're like,
I don't know, in a lower moment or like
(15:03):
there's nothing going on with you really, however you'll put it, like, just
not your best. How others deal with you,
perceive you, see you, and how you deal with them
versus when you're doing really well and you're. And
you're successful or, you know. So I think that it's
like for me, there was a lot of resentments that I
(15:26):
had, like feeling like I did, you know, I kind of
entered a machine with no awareness of
what a true, true awareness besides, like, what
you're told to, like, be careful, you know, and like, you
know, all the, all the things that they tell you about it.
But you never know until you really don't know, until you experience it for yourself.
(15:49):
No matter how smart you think you are, no matter how. Who you have around
you. Like, there are just things that just, like, happen so quick
that only now that I've gone through these experiences am I able to
see those things that, you know, I feel like I'm a much more
confident and safe position in my life, which is
amazing. But, yeah,
(16:13):
sleeping is definitely about, like, that feeling of, like,
feeling, like, exploited, you know, or just not really,
like, understanding.
Not really understanding
or unable to let go of the resentment
(16:36):
that comes with just dealing, like, being in a position
that people. That other people haven't been through, but they're looking
at you. And so there's like, a lot of
resentment. And so I think I was dealing with that, like,
kind of resentment piece for a while at my first.
My first go around, my first deal.
(16:59):
And then, you know, I was released
a fishy into the ocean and, you know, I.
I found my coral reef, you know. Sure.
Well, it's. It's interesting what you're saying because it's like, yeah, you had.
Coming from. You put a couple. You put your song. You put the
(17:20):
song about your sister up or the beginning of it up on Tick Tock and
then it's like, goes viral, like, instantly. Right. I mean, it was like, within
minutes, I think you said it had, like 100. Yeah. Views. And then you
follow that up with this. With sometimes. And that's
explodes too. And I would imagine, because, you
know, you're probably trying to, like, follow that, and then you have, like, people reaching
(17:42):
out. You're new to it. And it's like, now all these big, big
wigs in the industry are like, hey, we want to, you know, be
a part of what you got going on. And I would imagine that's a lot
of pressure going into your first ep, thinking, like, okay, is this also gonna. Is
every song gonna hit that way? I mean, I. I mean, I don't know what
you were thinking going into that. Yeah, a thought. I think that,
(18:03):
like, I mean, for
me, like, I've never.
There's the natural human
desire, egos, urges, and then there's
the purity that's in your heart
(18:26):
and they both exist. But I think that
what I know that I look for and what my
purpose is has always been clear to me, even
when
I've been struggling a lot, I guess, with purpose in the last two years of
what that means when I don't really know what I believe in and having a
(18:49):
worldview, because I feel like a lot of things start there or in
my life. Growing up, I felt that they did. I had a strong Sense of
purpose. Until my sister passed away.
Sure. And. But
when it comes to like, just, I guess, a smaller
version of the purpose when it comes to music, I know that it's.
(19:11):
For me, I enjoy connecting with others.
That helps me feel less isolated. They feel less isolated. That
goes down to the one person. So I'm here for the one person,
not for, you know, the
hundreds, thousands, millions. It's. The
individual is. Is the most important thing. I think, of
(19:33):
course, you necessarily can't. You can't, like,
provide for yourself and, like, be able to sustain your life with, like,
one person. So there's like, that kind of
balance, like, of me
knowing that what I really care about and then, yes, the.
The like, I hope that this can, you
(19:57):
know, be consistent and
those things, like, battling each other. And I think that was a lot of my
first. My first
time, you know, we had first. First project, we'll call it.
It just was kind of valuing those things because I think, like,
granted, I think if I just. And there's no going back and I
(20:20):
would not change a thing about it, but if I just kept putting out music,
you know, like, I didn't put out music for a year and a half, of
course, like, nothing like, oh, really? Oh, you
got. You know what I mean? Because of the situation, probably with the record
deal and all the other things. Yes. But it's like, dude, why would
you tell me that? Girl, tell me, go on my voicemail and
(20:42):
post another one. It's not that deep. Like, it's literally not
that serious. Like, I was a new artist. All you need to do is put
one foot in front of the other. Like, I could be. I can be an
artist manager. I could be a lawyer. Like, I'm not playing. Like,
it's not even. Like, it's kind of crazy what I think about it. I was
like, yeah, T didn't put out music for a year and a half. Like, that's
(21:02):
crazy. Anyway,
I didn't. And I think that, you know, outside of even that, when you
go from like, yes, I had. I had my
band, Wendy Lane in high school. And like, that was like our. Our indie
dream pop thing that we did. Oh, okay. I don't think we talked about
that last time. That's cool. Oh, yeah. So we were in high school.
(21:26):
Aiden, he worked on. He co produced on this project. And then
Coco, who's shot the sailor song video, we were all in a band together
called Wendy Lane. And it was very indie dream pop.
Like, very kind of beach house inspired. Mac
DeMarco team Impala. This is like 2017. So
like we were, we were really cool, but like,
(21:48):
we felt really cool, but, you know, we, we were
really coming into like the wonders of music
and, you know, creating and that kind of stuff.
And so we had that going for us. It's just, you know, they were a
year older than me, so they went off to school. It became a little
harder. And so we never really, we never really got to
(22:10):
like put together the album we
wanted to, but we, we had, we definitely
had a pretty big
following. Like I. And I don't even know how it happened because I don't know
how the Internet and discovery worked in
2016 or
(22:32):
2017 because I just wasn't thinking about that then. Sure.
So I don't know how discovery worked back then, but
we, I think we had like, maybe like almost like
200,000 monthly listeners, you know, and we just
like made that like. And I remember we were so
excited, I think, because it would get picked up on like,
(22:54):
like Reddit and like indie forums, band camp, that kind of
stuff. So like there were. It was really, really awesome. But that
was like, you know, a very, a different
experience from like going into the,
you know, the world of like, okay, we're sitting down
with the major label, we're putting out this, this thing. And also there was
(23:17):
just so much, just, there was so much of a learning as far as like,
what did, what did
my taste, my true taste as an artist sound like outside
of like a band context, outside of anything. So
I think it's just your project, right? I mean, you're not in a band. Yeah,
they're really opinions and it's just you and what you want to be and
(23:40):
sound like. Yeah. So there was just a lot of learning
really that needed to. To
happen. And you know, I think that
it's one of those things that just takes the course of
time for you to see and
(24:01):
learn from, you know. So there's some things that you could say
like, yeah, that was definitely just the music business being the music business.
But then there's another piece of it that's like, that was just a 20 year
old being a 20 year old trying to figure out
who they are, you know, in the wake of going through like the
biggest heartbreak of grief, you know. So
(24:23):
there were a lot of happening, different factors. Yeah. It was like your
uncle, your grandparents, like your sister. Then you got broken up with.
It was like you just were getting, then covet. It was left. Yeah.
Just getting rushed. It was like, geez, I know It's.
It's crazy. It's definitely crazy to look back on and then,
like, I think with, like,
(24:46):
everything now and, you know, I ended up moving back
home after I was released from my record label. I was
like. I was in London at the time. Oh, wow. I got the call, and
I was like, oh, my God, I'm done.
I'm done for it. Yeah. Did you feel like your. The career was
over at that point, or did you. Or was that not a part of that?
(25:08):
I think it was in the sense of, like, the. The I.
Whatever I thought that I was gonna experience, like, I was like,
yeah, that's just like. I'm like, all of you are
crazy. I'm getting out of here. Like,
you know, I'm just gonna learn how to record and
produce. That was my goal. I was like, I don't have. I was like.
(25:31):
And truly, I still feel this way. I would rather sing in a box. Like,
I literally would rather be at the cafe
and I told myself this than, like, ever feel
the way that I did before in the sense of, like,
ever feel that constrained
and ever feel that,
(25:56):
like,
disposable, you know, lack of value,
whatever you want to phrase it. I think. I mean, it's different now because I
spent a year kind of reconnecting completely with
my. My family, my friends, my. My life. Like, my
life. Not the life that I was, like, trying to.
(26:20):
Not the life that I was trying to.
Trying to have. I don't know how to explain it. I think when I was
younger, I just kind of had a lot of expectations of
what it is to be an artist. You know what I
mean? Like, I. I remember, like, if we're speaking, like,
(26:45):
even backward times, like,
I was. It. It really was. I
struggled a lot with, you know, imposter syndrome and
also embarrassment
one, I think, because, you know, I just got out of the period of time
where my sister passed away. And, you know, when my sister passed away,
(27:07):
like, our family, like, we knew a lot of people,
and it was like a giant flashlight shine on us. And,
like, everybody feels bad for you, and everybody talks about you, and
they just feel like that poor family, you know?
And then you have, like, a moment of
glitter, and it's like, everything looks really great. They're, like, all so excited.
(27:29):
And then everything after that is just so underwhelming and
anticlimactic. And, like, everybody's kind
of like, oh, that's kind of, like, interesting. Like, you know,
like, she doesn't, like, get engagement. It sounds stupid,
but in, like, my 20 year old head, it was kind of like
I felt this need to like,
(27:53):
live out a dream.
Not even for myself, but for my sister because she was an opera singer
and she always wanted to do it. Like, she was very much like
the, she's like very much
the. Like.
(28:14):
Well, she was in like musical theater and everything. Right. That's what. Yeah, she like,
had the personality of somebody that just like,
would just love. It, you know, Want to be the star.
Yeah. And I'd like, never really, like, felt that
way. And like, I still don't like, I think that like, I, I'm
always thinking about my relationship to
(28:38):
myself and the environment that I'm in and
how does that affect how I see
others and, you know, see myself and very like,
connected to this plane, you
know, because I think that like a lot of our, the younger generation just got
(28:59):
sold on like, a lot of things that just like,
aren't real. Like. Well, yeah, you grew up in a world of
Instagram and Tick Tock and everyone's life looks perfect all the time. It's like,
yeah, you know, exactly. And it's. But it's
like I've always just kind of been like.
Like when I was younger and I was a kid, like, yeah, there were artists
(29:21):
that I looked up to that I definitely idolized. But
I don't know, maybe it's just part of, you know, one, it's
being the age that I am and, you know, maturing and then the second is
like being in it where it's just feels like it's not
good for society, you know,
(29:41):
that's my take. I think
it's also like, for like, you know, real people. Does that make
sense? Like, yeah, I think, like, wanting.
Wanting.
I don't know. I don't really know how to explain it that well, but.
(30:04):
Yeah. Can you tell me, do you remember where, where I was?
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, again, I don't really ask a whole lot of questions.
It's just kind of. We're talking. I think I said, like, how did you, like,
once you got the news that you got lost, you know, that,
that you had lost a deal with the label and you're in, in London and
it's like, are you like, at that point, like, did
(30:25):
you think you wanted to continue doing music? Like, did you know that this. Yeah,
you still were gonna keep doing this and like, obviously
it all worked out and you had another massive
song, you know, after the fact. But like, at that point, were you kind of
defeated or were you just like, I Just need to get out of here, get
home and start over. I, I
(30:45):
definitely was experiencing
that, you know, defeat and heartbreak. There's a song in the Heights
called, I think it's Breathe, but that's like,
I listened to it right after I love in the Heights
and it's exactly that song. I'm just feeling like,
(31:06):
yeah, I had a lot of potential.
I just felt like I had a lot of potential and
you know, it didn't, it didn't
work out. And at the end of the day, like, I'm a,
I'm a number, you know, And I think that really, really
(31:27):
hurt to kind of really wake up and, and
just realize like, you're, you're a number,
you know, it was a business
proposition and then didn't, you know, and it's like I, I,
I gave some of my most
(31:48):
vulnerable, like,
stories and
I don't know, it was, it was a lot, it was a lot to, to
accept and I did. And
when I started to it, you know, I came from
moving back in with my parents and
(32:14):
I taught myself how to record and produce. There was a lot of
Reddit and YouTube and calling my friends. Like I called, you
know, Jen sometimes who made the EP with me, and
you know, she's incredible. She's like very like, you know, studio
badass. I did everything in my bedroom, you know,
and I talked to Aidan
(32:36):
and I met Noah Weinman. There's a lot of different, like, key
people and my friend Eric, he was the first person actually that really
helped me just wrap my mind around
recording and producing. And so
I, I had friends that I could call and I had
a lot of nights alone just spent on YouTube and
(32:59):
like looking at all the different,
like, comparisons of, you know, different
equipment and, you know, realizing I actually didn't need that, a lot
of that equipment. I did everything on a sure microphone for the most part.
And you could still make things sound really big. Like there's just so many things
(33:19):
that I learned along the way that I didn't know. And I think that it
was so nerve wracking because I really did not know what I was
doing. Like, I truly like, yes, I know how to
record my vocals and Ableton and click play and like
pan, you know, but like, I didn't really understand how to make
things sound good. And
(33:42):
I was blown away at how quickly I
started to. And it made sense because also I'm, I'm still in a way
producing alongside other producers. I always have
been, but, you know, I'm kind of like I
wasn't doing it. I wasn't engineering things
except for my vocals for the most part. But then getting involved on
(34:04):
things like learning how to record guitars and the way that
I. That I like to do them the whole entire. Like, this album
at the beach, in every life is a science project. It's an experiment.
Wow. Did you did a lot of those songs that you were starting off or,
like, at your house, make like those original recordings made the
album? Yeah, yeah. Most of them are the original recordings.
(34:27):
Like, all of them.
Wow. All of them, except for the chemistry was the only one that
Aiden and I made that in his studio in la, part of it. And then
we finished it in my house. That was like half and half,
but in normalcy. Also, I made with eight with
Noah and his. It's like his studio
(34:49):
bedroom kind of thing. Like, similar setup to mine, maybe a little bit more
robust. Wow. But everything
in my bedroom, you know. So you got home.
Yeah, you got home and then started learning, right? Learning how to engineer,
learning how to record. And then when you started writing your songs,
did you, like, realize it was becoming an album? Like, how long
(35:12):
did this process kind of take you? I
wanted it to be an album, but I was kind of like. It was kind
of like a time where, like, my team was like, you know, albums are really
big deal, sweetie, you know, and, like, you're not
there yet. And it's like, if I
don't put out a damn album, I'm gonna lose my mind.
(35:36):
But no, I definitely was like, this is coming to.
This is coming to be something. We're just throwing. We're just doing
singles right now. And I was having a lot of fun. Like, I like that
I was taking my piece. I needed to, because what the hell am I waiting
around for? Like, yeah, I'm gonna put out. And every and every
artist has their own way of doing things that makes
(35:58):
their. Their storytelling and their delivery
feel what is best and right
to them. So I totally respect and understand however people choose to roll out their
music. I was in a case where, like, I can't
just put out an album and expect everybody to, like, be like, that was
great. Like, imagine if I put out an entire album, no one
(36:21):
would have ever heard any of this music, most likely, you
know, so it's like the process of, okay, I'm just gonna put one foot in
front of the other as I go. Please be rude. Was an example
of, like, the joy. Like, the
childlike joy that you can have is.
Is incredible, you know, And I had. I Had lost that kind of
(36:45):
that passion and that lust for music because I
was just so. Like, I was not into. Let me get in
this session. Let me get in a session. And like,
it just was uninspiring to me. Even though I, like, made a lot of
great friends through it, Even if we made a great song together, like, nothing.
Like, it just. It wasn't my. That
(37:08):
wasn't gonna be my full potential. That wasn't gonna be my. My highest form of
creating, you know? And I only learned that by like pressing buttons,
random buttons, until I realized what they meant, you know?
And like, it was so exciting. Like, I.
I just. I remember being in my room
at 2am and recording
(37:31):
something and then hearing it back and being like, is this sound good?
Like, does this sound good? It's like nothing like it. There's
a sense of just like. It's like. It's a
feeling of power, but it's like a healthy power, you know, it's like a feeling
of like, I don't know, like my finger. Like my fingers are on fire.
Like I could just run around the room. I don't know.
(37:54):
Well, yeah, it must have been Phil. Pretty good though, to coming even with
normalcy or Please, please be rude. Like, you put these songs out and
they. And they do. Well, it wasn't like that. You know, you
came back and no one care. It was like you had left the label
and all that things. And then you still put these songs out and then it's
still, you know, they do. Really? Yeah. Good numbers. That must have been
(38:16):
pretty validating. For sure. I think it was like,
also, I feel like all
suspending your expectation and disbelief is
someone can tell you to do that. But it's just one of the things that,
like, there is a surrender that happens on your own body's accord.
(38:38):
And I think I had reached that moment of
being like, yeah, I don't care. Like,
I just don't. I don't. I don't care
because I'm here to
create. And I know that
(39:00):
this entire time I've had a community
that's really enjoyed my music. And I was so
focused on the
suits or whoever that I was dealing with constantly
that I did not have a direct relationship with my community.
(39:20):
And when all that noise is gone,
you see the beautiful. The
beautiful gems and rubies in front of you. So I spent a lot
of time just connecting with my community.
And that was also something that was very
healing and fulfilling to me. And of course, everything
(39:44):
that's, you know, where things have Grown now is incredible to
see. Sure. But I feel just as
loved, you know, I really feel like I. Something
in my perspective in what
audience means to me and the connection that we have
(40:06):
that was healed in the moment of. Away from all this stuff.
So it's not like I feel. I'm.
I'm not. There's nothing overpowering
the real reason why we're here. And that's. That's
really beautiful to me. And it was super important because I don't think I was
mature enough. I wasn't ready for this
(40:28):
chapter of my life. There was. I wasn't ready for it. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I was gonna say. Because then you. Sailor Song is just.
It's the biggest record you've put out. And that was after, like, you had already.
It seems like you've already done the healing process and you reach. You got back
with your community and you started to learn how to record your own songs. And
then this next even bigger moment happens for you.
(40:52):
Yeah, it was.
It's so crazy. I think it's like it's almost a year. I guess I don't
have really a concept of time. We're entering summer, May, June, July.
Okay, so it was July, like third. Something like that.
I like, shared Sailor Song before. I had, like, done that little
acoustic thing online too.
(41:15):
I definitely did not have any.
Anything of the sort, except for I love Sailor Song. I wrote
it and when I recorded it, you know, send it to my
friends, as I did with most of the songs at the
time. Every time I was making things all the time,
and I was like, just
(41:37):
high. I was just high off of making music
that I loved. And this was no
different, you know, dancing and
sending it to my friends and, you know, talking. I remember talking to my
good friend Taimi about it, and we were
just going back and forth about the song and they were like,
(42:02):
just so in love with it, you know, and it's so
amazing to be aware of something so special and, like, what it means to you
and then for that to happen because it makes sense to me
because it was so loved. But,
like, I don't know. I would have. It would have just been. It would have
been as fulfilling, you know, I think just like
(42:24):
my concept, I guess I'll fulfillment, like.
And I think another piece of. It's like, I'm aware that it could go away,
like, you know, as incredible and
kind of the path that I believe I'm on is
wonderful. And it's something that's. There's an opportunity to really
Connect with others and impact others and you know, especially with things on, on,
(42:46):
you know, heavier topics like grief. That means so much to me.
But I also know that anything can happen and
you know, life is unpredictable, it's short, you know, you
don't, there's so many twists and turns of
the business and I know ultimately that my,
(43:06):
the thing that means the most to me is just knowing that I'm also loved
by the people around me and my, my
family and my friends and my dogs. And
that's kind of like the last standing thing, I think. So
it's, it's a different, it's a different world to be in now with
this, you know. And it's also interesting too because like
(43:30):
now I'm on tour a lot and so your world
kind of becomes smaller in some sort of sense with the people that you are
around. I'm grateful because my family travels with me, so that's amazing.
Yeah. So you know, they're very involved in my life but you
know, it's like, it's important
for me to one
(43:52):
just like take care of my well being and my health and my sleep and
all those different things. But also make sure that I'm staying in touch with
the people that matter to me. Which it's, it's a lot to
balance for sure. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Oh my
gosh. Well, the album is amazing. I,
I, I, it's crazy that you did it all kind
(44:16):
of yourself. I mean that I would have never guessed that going into the conversation.
That's so cool that you did that. I think Survivor's Guild is
such a deep song. Like that was a very
vulnerable one for you to put out. But yeah,
yeah, I'm sure that was a rough one to write.
Yeah, I mean it came to me pretty, it
(44:38):
was like right there, Aiden had come up with these chords, I had heard
them. I was like, Aiden, what are those chords? It's
like Gigi, like Aiden and he gave it to me.
So. Thank you, Aiden. Well, I already wrote to it. I was like, I was
like, by the way, I wrote to your chords because they're like very interesting
chords. They're not, it's not just like a kind of, you know, a basic
(45:02):
center for chords. Chord progression. It's a really cool chord
progression. And he heard it, he was like, yeah, we gotta record this,
you know, and it just,
it flow, it just flowed. That one just flowed. I think it
was like over time I've kind of seen
(45:24):
and especially the year where I was away from the music world
that's where I really started to see a lot of my,
like, the deconstruction of Christianity
and my upbringing and where that
intersects with my grief. I don't know. It's like
(45:45):
a big explosion. Yeah. And so I think.
I mean, a lot of the album is about that. And, like, there is that
love factor, that very pure. That pure kind of
love piece of it all where, like,
I'm going through dealing with the grief and
the deconstructed. Deconstructing. But then there's this
(46:07):
pillar. It's just something I can hold on to
throughout all of it. But,
yeah, definitely. It was definitely a heavy one.
Do you feel like it's therapeutic when you get these songs out like that? Oh,
my gosh, yes. I remember when I wrote Fable, I was like, thank freaking
God. I needed to get this one up because
(46:30):
it's more so, like, I think with grief. Like,
it's taken me years and years to understand
or to see the way.
See who I would become. Because when my sister passed
away, I remember this pastor was at my house,
(46:51):
and he told me this thing,
and I was so angry. I was like, I wanted this man out of my
house. Like, get the hell out of my house.
But he said, how you handle your grief
right now will affect you for the rest of your life.
It's going to affect you. Your relationships
(47:14):
is going to affect, you know, your work. It's going to affect your future
children. It's going to affect your spouse,
everything. It's going to affect everything in your life.
So how you deal with it is so important.
And I'm like, I literally. My sister died today. You know
(47:35):
what I mean? And I'm like, you're that heavy thing. I was like, yes,
this is great. This is exactly it. Like, I have more responsibility.
Yes. And I feel like as much as it was,
maybe he didn't even need to tell me that, like, in the grand scheme, because
I would have figured it out, therapy and stuff, but
(47:57):
I never forgot it. And I think that. I think about that
as I've gone from the early 20s to now
25 to I'm sure when
I'm 30, how my grief changes and how
it affects how I approach life.
And it's very. It's
(48:19):
very weird because it follows you
and it changes and evolves. And, like, sometimes,
like, I think, like, maybe I'm like, I won't.
There's, like, that longing and that loss that exists, and then
there's, like, the harrowing, dark side of it, and then there's, like,
(48:40):
okay. I'm
dealing with new concerns based upon my age. I'm dealing with
new fears based upon my age. I. You know,
it just does things to you. Like. Just like, anything. Like, I
think, like, if it's, like, a physical trauma or you're like,
(49:00):
you know, something crazy happens. And, like, those people who get, like,
diseases year. Years later after, like, it's the
progression of how a certain trauma changes you.
And, you know, I'm in therapy for that, but I think there's
only so much you can do. And I think something like
the writing process of it, like, I've seen the way the things that I write
(49:22):
about have changed the way that I. There were things that
I would have just never imagined
or could have fathomed, and
I. It had to be five years later to articulate it. Like, imagine,
like, it's, like, pulling through.
(49:44):
Like, if there was just, like, this big building that collapsed or
something. You have to find every single
piece of it, you know, or whatever they do. I don't know what they do,
but it's like, I had to find
it all. And there are things I still haven't found yet. And so there's a
frustration of, like, the anticipatory grief that
(50:06):
you haven't experienced yet. Like a wedding day, for example. Like,
anybody who's lost their. Lost their parent, you
know, no matter how old they are, they. They know that that day is going
to come someday and that living in that purgatory
is just a different kind of heartbreak. It's still a
heartbreak versus them actually getting married on that day, and their
(50:29):
parent is walking them down the aisle, you know, So I think it's,
like, very.
Songwriting is the greatest gift that
I've been given, one of the greatest gifts, I think,
you know, people. And, like, my. The people in my life come first.
But that is the. The personal
(50:50):
gift of being able to
understand things. Like, sometimes I understand
things because I wrote about it, and I look back at what I wrote. I'm
like, oh. And
being able to also package it in a way that's satisfying to me because
I just. That's how I am. And I love music, and I love
(51:12):
hearing things in a way that's connected to the. The melody
and the lyric and the rhyme. And, like, there's so many things that, like,
make something that is so,
like, such an annoyance to me and
such a point of
negativity and turning that into something beautiful and being like,
(51:35):
yes. And then somebody else from the other side will be like, oh, my God.
Like, that was so satisfying to me as well. So
it's a really big blessing to be able to have
songwriting that helps me figure out
what I'm feeling. It's the. It's the biggest relief.
It's like a massage. I love it. Well, I
(51:58):
think the album. Excuse me. I think the album is incredible. And I
appreciate your time, Gigi, for coming back and doing this. You're. You're so fun to
talk to. So thank you for your time today. I have one more question.
I asked you this last time, but I'm gonna ask it again if you have
any advice for aspiring artists.
I remember when you asked me that. I wonder what it said.
(52:20):
I think it's just
follow the thing that moves you
and wherever you feel pulled to
go there and find
that. That reason
(52:43):
that. That it means so much to you and,
you know, do it for the love of it, you know? And if
you feel like that's not kind of where you're at, I
think it's important to evaluate maybe why, if it's a. If it's the circumstances,
then. And there's nothing you can do about it than have
(53:05):
grace for yourself. I think that having grace for yourself and
knowing that things will fall as they're meant to is important. But
most importantly, not every day is going to be a good day, and
not every day is going to be a great creative day. But,
you know, you're still an artist, and you still love it. Make as long as
(53:26):
that. That the
light can dim sometimes, but
don't ever let it go out.
That's the goal.
(53:53):
Backward, bring it backwards, bring it
back, bring it back.
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